good evening um this is Tuesday July 23rd um this towns and finance committee and I would like to call the meeting to order at 7 [Music] o'clock and as we have a roll call vote I will state that we have a new member C hes has joined us in the room and she's been appointed and so we do have a new member today so you'll be hearing a new new name during the roll call um which is probably in the in the agenda later on also um so with that um and we have remote um I would like a roll call attendance please uh J Maus Andre and Andrea I heard you um Don Hayes present with that we have four Sam Grant had sent a message that um he was available to make it um today so though that would be an excuse absence um but we do have a quorum so we can continue um this meeting is being recorded um and can be played live on Channel 9 it will be played back on Channel 9 it is also available on the YouTube um at this point again next item for the additions or deletions um I have nothing more to add at this at this point see if this um that's no nothing nothing I can see if we do run across something we may skip it on the agenda I don't think there's anything um that will be skipped um moving into the work session uh I just wanted to indicate I wasn't sure whether the appointments were going to be made uh so we had received um two volunteer forms and um again Carol hes was appointed uh the and the the other volunteer um form was rejected so um we continue with um the remainder on the membership um the letter the letters have have now been delivered I know I I received my reappointment in the mail um um something I um on the membership we because we I have been reappointed at this point we have a new member um we may need we need to um address our structure um recommending and voting for chair Vice chair and secretary I had not considered that we we can run with with me continuing with the continuity of government is chair and address it at the next meeting you want to or do you want to address it now um I can address it now we okay chre second that motion second we we have a motion to um nominate Don as chair and we have the second from CES um any discussion everybody is happy with that a roll call vote for Jared Don Jal mikas yes do car Hof says she has for do she yeah I'm here I just got a phone call that was all because the other bogus message I left was for Kathy sper and she was calling to find out what was up so I'm sorry yeah yeah the motion on the table is is to re nominate me as chair so we're voting on that yeah okay so yeah or yes I'll go yes so it's unanimous we have a chair well you know none of us could ever cover what you cover and put into the computer you're stuck there forever we we'll find we AI is coming along they will be able to replace me never I don't think so no and at this point do we have a nomination for vice chair was vice chair now um it had been Mark cussy and um he did not seek to be reappointed um I did have a conversation with him today um he is considering rejoining oh if for now we want to leave that um they until we we determine what happens with the other members of the committee okay we can we can leave Vice chair open all right okay um and and does it have to be in a in a motion [Music] um I suppose that makes sense let's do a motion all right I'll make a motion that we um hold off on Vice chair until for further information received any El second it okay we have a motion not to appoint a vice chair in a second at this at this time but we will in the future so um any further discussion or [Music] questions none being heard um a roll call vote to postpone appointing a vice chair General mik is yes to postpone and Carol hes yes and real wood yes okay and Don Hayes yes so we have postponed a nice chair then we have clerk which had been Andrea I would like to not do it only because the you know I'm years behind on a minute and I keep saying when I get my glasses and my eyes fixed but my eyes are still giving me lots of problems and I can't really do the job so I shouldn't be appointed to that unless you want to do something else about the minutes and I could take off maybe some of your your other duties done but I I can't really fill the position okay and understood um do we have another volunteer that would like to be clerk what do you have to do to be clerk um just it it's you can actually kind of follow this you know the agenda and then you have to post the meetings then we review the minutes and the minutes are a big thing and the minutes are just and I'm terrible at minutes oh no ours are ours are quite easy because follow follow his agenda and then you just put what happened there it's just a gist of the meeting you don't have to have the exact not it's we only have the power to recommend so you don't have the same responsibility that you would have on the planning board where you have actual you have to have references to to taking actual action we we can't except on the reserve one can't do very much at all I'm still terrible at minutes but do you have a sample um send me um yeah you can look at the town sometime when you come a minute or two early you can go down to the the town clerk's office and ask for her Minutes book and look in that they're all in there with the um the the other piece um for for now what we could do is if you would like to say this meeting you'll take minutes we can work together see what see how it's put together okay and see if it's so go to one meeting put it together hey Don yeah um sorry to interrupt I would be glad to work with Carol on how to do minutes um as your as Andre had said they're really pretty simple be glad to meet with her offline and just sort of walk her through the process okay and who is this that's okay administrator I appreciate that run Ross I was thinking the same it's kind of like just take that few minutes and um and uh piece it together so um I think between the two of us it and again I think with what we have if there's if anybody has questions about details we could always put a link to the YouTube um video that goes along with it to oh in the minutes yeah just as a you know so the minutes are really are just just a record of what happened made by so and so not a trans and the other thing is when when we have a meeting say with the selectman um you can go with their minute we we have to have who attended and what time we open the meeting and stuff and adjourned but the gist of the uh business that was done you can rely on the flu meeting write that in a minute that that's what you reference what's to be referen lovely trick that one okay a motion again to postpone um appointing uh cour but Carol volunteers so I'll second okay that's the one thing about the planing board somebody writes the minutes and um okay then uh a roll call vote for a one bit one one meeting question yes Carol Carol Hoff says yes Andrew Wood yes Hayes yes so we have today's meeting is covered and um we'll move to the next one thank you that was um setting the membership and and getting our leadership in place and right now we have the chair and everybody else's postponed um sorry I hadn't been sharing this I've been reading [Music] the we my minutes from on the screen and uh not share yet so we're going to share screen sorry it's kind like that way people in the room can see we going in addition to so um that is the start of where we are we have the board in place and the members and next item item two in the work session is a discussion on the FY 25 budget with the town moderator and Town Administrator sorry um and Ross has joined us online and got the files um Ross I did forward them to Carol because I don't think you knew that she was on the on the committee yet so right and please send me her email email address and I'll add her to my distribution list okay we'll do well thank thank you for letting me meet with you um it's been a scramble to pull this together with the way things have been changing I'm gonna start with with some questions or assumptions and then we'll go then then I propose to do a high level review of the budget and we can drill down as much as you want or save the drilling for the following meeting but the first assumption is that neither the select board which haven't voted or the finance committee that hasn't voted are going to ask for an override and you can answer yes you will no you won't or you're going to think about it but obviously the answer will determine what we do with a budget so are there thoughts at this point on what the is recommended regarding an override um well I thought I personally I thought there may be another override um it but it depends as as it goes through I mean um looking at the budgets that were presented um it looks like and it's going to be um removing the crib site pickup from if if voted um it's kind of so it's either a separate fee for curbside pick up well leaving curbside pick up in and going for an override um does that have to go back to the town for another vote it would have to have a special town meeting my my understanding it would need a special town meeting to vote it and then and again it could it's it's an auto and we also have to have a ballot vote so it it's not just an either or it has to be both um and which comes first it's all based on timing and what would the override be for just for trash um I I would say mostly for trash and a few other things and I would estimate at this point it would probably be in the tune of $900,000 versus the million six that was asked before now I'm not advocating at this point for an override so I'm just asking for a sense of your committee I don't know that you have to vote but um obviously whether we count on an override or not makes a difference in how the rest of the budget falls out what if we vote on over right it doesn't go through again what happens then very good question I think we're then back to starting well potentially Where We Are Tonight with redoing the budget right so why wouldn't we just do the budget based on no override and then if the override passes or if you do go forward with an override and it passes then you get that money but if it doesn't pass you still have to figure out the budget within what you have we still have 900,000 to um to try to figure out how to cut it or whatever so is that what we what we need is 900,000 do we need the one point how much do we really I believe it's it's closer to 900,000 the school has North mle sex has reduced their budget 623,000 give or take and you know that takes a big chunk out of that we've made some other cuts the biggest thing in the balance that I think voters will be sensitive to is whether trash is paid for through their taxes or whether it's paid for through a separate fee that's be imposed on all residents and we're working the details if we have to go that way so I I don't know that I can be more specific how that will work but basically we would pass that $825,000 that's in the budget it would be passed to the residents um as a fee collection we have an idea what that would be for Resident by any chance I don't and I don't want to guess at this point um while this is going on I've asked the treasur collector to start working up a program on how we will administer that fee collection so I can't answer your question specifically but I think that's a fair one to ask and get answers to excuse me what I don't understand is um I thought the that Charles gave us a one-year contract why are we still talking and striving for the three when we could the one year is considerably late and would give us a year to work out the problem yes they graciously kept their price the same from last year to this year but we still have to fund that number and with the increases across the whole budget schools and Municipal where where short and right now I think didn't the town vote a sum for trash pickup as part of their ominous budget yes Andrew you're correct the town voted the $825,000 well then why can't we just take the amount needed for this year turn the back the the remaining amount that was voted towards um the future to be because I know well I heard that the Selectmen in Council don't feel like they have to um reallocate the money that they can just do it it can just charge but when it comes to other things in the budget even smaller things changing the use of a truck from um a plow truck to a pickup truck any change of appropriation we've always had to votee it at town meeting or at a town meeting so I don't I don't I I sort of feel like we're putting the cart before the hord well maybe but we have to we've got to address the issue either way the contract with Shaws will stay the same as it was appropriated and voted a town meeting the town will pay them to collect the Fe the the trash the problem is we need funds to do that and one answer is to ask for another override or the other answer is is to say we're now gonna ask we're going to tell residents they have to pay a certain fee every month or every quarter for their trash collection figured into our 800 so where have that money going where where is the money going it's going the town if the town voted for the trash why isn't it just going to the trash because that money goes into the general fund and is used to pay all of the town's bills including the assessments to the two schools well how come when you vote a town meeting and it comes up on that line and everybody votes and says okay we vote for that money to go to trash right and now he's saying that money doesn't go voted trash then why am I voting for anything if it's not being ear marked for what it was voted for the money will go to the trash you correct but where does the money come from and there are there are request for for more expenditures than there is is for Revenue okay but it's still getting confused because when we were at the last town meeting and we went through all those budget lines and each one was voted on that that was your budget that you presented to the town and we voted yes and no for those dollars so you're saying those dollars that we voted on weren't there well I I think what it is that this budget is being amended and they're adding in Dollars into the school budget to whatever but I'm just saying if you voted on money to go to trash that money should go to trash right and and you shouldn't be taking that money that was voted on by the town people for trash as you presented at town meeting to go to something else because now as a taxpayer in a town thing when I go to town meeting now and I'm going to vote on the budget and and I'm thinking that money is going to where I voting for I'm not going to have any faith in the town going forward that my money's being spent appropriately Ross when that first vote was made didn't it say uh raise an appropriate from uh General doesn't it say from the general budget I thought that motion said from general fund yes exactly and if we change it if we vote from General funds to a fee but then when we voted it from General funds we took it out of General funds and put it for a specific purpose to change that purpose we have to have another town meeting I think well yes we we're having another town meeting right now it's scheduled for August 20th okay okay so Carol The Dilemma is we're $900,000 short where do we take that money from the school has cut 600,000 plus second the $900,000 is that just because of the school budget because weren't we supposed to they were like what 1.6 million deficit or whatever it was for the override so that money was school money and then the override didn't pass and then the school went back and did some whatever so okay so you're still a million dollar shot on the school I I really feel as though okay trash is a big deal in this town and um I really think they need to do the two and a half override I really do okay opposed to I'm not opposed to the over but all I'm saying is just but if you were going to do the budget I would still see the budget without the override because if it doesn't pass you're going to have to redo the budget we are going to if it doesn't pass we are going to have to redo the budget and that would be everybody not just yeah yeah yeah okay so so let me back up a little bit um the estimate for the monthly cost on the trash is $42 per household okay good good or bad but that's what the estimate is now if if we don't take the the track because that's the big the trash fees are the biggest single item then the question comes how do you fund it and the second half of my opening question is do we go back to the schools and vote down their last assessment and tell them to come back a third time um that's assuming that Ashby also votes no but or do we take the last assessment they gave and try to work around that these are policy decisions for the finance committee and the selectman which I'm glad to opine on opine on but um answering the override question and accepting or rejecting the school committee number is Will shape how the rest of the budget conversation goes actually when you think about it it comes down to like $ 10 or11 a week I was paying more for that a long time ago in another town so to me that's not that bad no that's I yeah that's not bad yeah but but let's let that's the but that's for this year that's that's for this year and and I think we need to go back to the schools as well as ourselves and people have heard me say this a lot not just look at the one year we need to be looking out five years five years I agree um we we need to know from the school what the ask is going to be next year they they if if they come in at the number they have this year what's it going to be next year they they had negotiations with five bargaining units this year um we need to know what that number is going to be we know that the town is only going to get two and a half and a little bit of growth so the schools have to be held to the same standards that we do so if if the town votes the current the the current school budget can they come in two and a half next year and and meet our Revenue targets that we have because we don't have any way of increasing revenues but you know what we need to talk about the other departments too it's school because there were a lot of there was a lot of over money this year it is if we if we go go down the list of the hit list of things that are coming two and a half that's it the the oper funded positions have to come whole in this five year it's within two and a half years they have to come home we have to eat we have to be able to find all of those money why why are those oper funds positions not just eliminated they some of them are are I would say relatively important um the one the one that I always use having been a manager when you have HR issues sometimes they can take as much as 30% of your week do you want a Town Administrator managing taking 30% of his time out to work on HR position HR issues it's kind of like so now you're now it's a it's a tradeoff okay 30% of a salary for Town Administrator is now doing HR HR work is do you have an H person in town we do yeah and it is funded uh partially funded with oper funds today we have been increasing those amounts but we have to be able to see those increases over the next couple years and make sure that we can still I agree with you you should be doing a fiveyear budget so I think the if we have a starting budget for fy2 incrementally increasing it percentage wise and things over over the years is an easier easier thing to do in you can do it in spreadsheets with formulas and just calculations um and hit it so we can have a bigger Target the town would have something to look at that says this is where we are today if we vote on this as an override today we won't have to do it but we need to partner with the schools in addition to help us look at what they ask is going to be over those same no do we ask each department to look at like a 5e plan we haven't yet but I think we we need we need to because the other thing is you need to look at what's the maintenance going to be on buildings over the next five years what's what's the you know police fire ambulances whatever water trucks all that stuff when do you going to replace them what kind of Life the capital expenditures and you need to look at that like like you said at least five years out and then if we have uh contracts maybe we have if we can look at long longer contracts with a better payout the contract's piece unfortunately is limited by um guidelines from the state that um to three years that's why the 5year trash contract that was presented was voted the state limit you with the threeyear contracts they do yeah I didn't know the state did that but still we they should be able to project yeah they should still right you you know we have to well that's a bad thing I work I mean I worked in Contracting for the federal government I know how contracts work but three year limit sometimes you can do a lot better if you can do a five a longer term that's that's bad three years yeah okay didn't we just have a problem with that uh somebody wanted a five-year contract and was unable to get it because I think it was a trash trash yeah okay we can we will certainly I think with your new Town Administrator you will work on and the finance committee work on a fiveyear budget but I'm I very confident the schools increase next year f f y 26 will be more than 2 and a half per. oh yes I agree I'm sure sure it will be I and I can assure you the town you know the town has been up against an override issue for multiple years when I was here two and a half years ago we recommended an override and that didn't pass and it's and it's so the override question is going to come up every year because I think we we've hitting the limit I'm trying to figure out how to balance the FY 25 budget understood but I think I think the fy2 budget is part of that bigger you you can't just say take FY 25 and hope it works going forward I think we need to we need to have a bit of a a bigger story of this is what we're asking in fy2 and how it will impact you enfy 2678 um we just can't yes for way too many years we have been just holding our breath and balancing your budget for the one year not thinking at all about what's going to happen next year and that's why we find ourselves where we are today um Ross I have one question to ask you because I'd forgotten and I don't mean to go back to trash well I guess I do mean to go back to it did we did we fund it was the amount on the omnus budget for three years or one year the the amount on the budget was for one year and the town signed a one-year contract okay okay fine thank you that's what I had thought but I I I get confused when the conversation gets rolling some and yeah and I guess I'm going to ask the piece of that question um or a piece of that is that strictly the curbside pickup piece or is that the whole contract because the whole contract includes dumpsters and things spread around the town at various facilities oh does I believe it's I believe it's wait a minute let me check I don't know okay I yeah understand what you're saying I'm sure it tell much I hope it does I hope they sign a one-year contract that includes everything well it it does but when you talk about billing oh I see is it going to also include like a condo association is it going to town hall in police station in wherever else you see a dumpster yeah most mostly the town properties it's it does not include condos they are on their own yeah yeah oh okay yeah no I was thinking about the the dumpsters that are at the at at Town facilities like Town Hall Police Station Library fire um fire station probably fire yeah it's listed as curbside pickup and transportation so I think that the building individual building trash is is within their own budgets I could um okay because when I looked at the I have not seen the one here but when I looked at the five-year contracts that were presented there was the curbside pickup was one fee and then all of the they listed all the different dumpsters with all the different pickup schedules that are at the Town facilities okay so they're not listed in their individual budgets I don't believe when we when we've examined the budget it it never has come up as one of the items that is in any of the line items on the individual budget okay so I I will verify that answer for you for your next meeting yeah okay which is next Tuesday so just so you have the time time but but that's that's the piece it's kind of like when when we talk about a price that's going to be invoiced okay I'm not looking for it to be padded you know I I understand this other trash that has to be picked up I don't I don't believe it's in individual budgets to pay their own trash we have invoices from Shaws from each of the other departments it's the same it's the same contract that we had for FY 24 so I'll find out how the town buildings and Etc get paid for okay good so I started this with some philosophical questions and we sort of didn't answer them but can I go through the rest of the the budget changes um yeah is is it the change is it in the word document you sent or that's just the summaries well I'm gonna start with the draft warrant articles because that sort of highlights where I propose to make changes okay okay and you can go into the nitty-gritty of the ominous budget because because the changes are in red in the ominous budget um okay so I I did bring it up just in case people don't have it here you want want to B up a little bit more okay so this never get fuzzy okay oh there we go oh yeah nice so I may have to scroll a little bit but we we have it shared okay okay so yeah part of balancing the budget is looking at Revenue as well as looking at expenses um the fire department has been doing an excellent job with their Advanced life support um they are supporting many many runs and that's generating significant income I'm proposing to take $800,000 or $100,000 increase over the May budget out of ambulance receipts and the fire department is aware with that aware of that and okay with that number so that's a little more Revenue those funds are to be used for the fire department the The increased funds to to lower their other figure because you can't use ambulance receipts for anything but ambulance related things um because our fire department is Fire EMS there are more things we can use it for but you couldn't use for example the the $800,000 or or extra $100,000 you couldn't use that for the school from ambulance receipt against the law I will answer I will spec I will look into that I believe it can go into the general fund and the general fund uses it where it uses it but if we use it to offset the money going to the fire department then it's it's sort of a wash I think the law yeah I think the law says that it has to be used for EMS related things so one hand right well okay so if if that's the case then we'll just off we'll reduce their um ask for other items by that number but and my point is that's $800,000 more I mean that's $800,000 of Revenue or 100,000 more than the budget in the police budget is a request sorry r i i i had another item on the ambulance receipts um not having seen the account do they have the appro there was a special town meeting budget that also took 100,000 out so that it sounds like it's now 900,000 do we have that kind of money in that account that we can take yes this is net of um receipts so far this year it's net of the 100,000 that was taken out in the Springtown meeting and it's net of 100,000 that was put back because we had um incorrectly taken out a lease payment that had already been paid for so okay that is a good number okay um on the expense side um line 284 of the police budget is requesting $95,000 for new equipment that's the first year lease payment on four new Cruisers we've talked to the Chief and he's willing to delay that acquisition until a potential uh December special town meeting so we're taking it out of this budget and propos to fund that out of free cash once free cash has been certified um late this fall so that's the reduction in this budget um another warrant article will be to establish a special Revenue fund to account for collecting the um trash fees and I've put in an expense item of $50,000 to run that process I don't know what that process is um I told you I've asked the treasure collector to look into how to collect fees and to let me know if there's a software application or a staffing issue related to it but as a placeholder I've put it in a $50,000 expense and that'll be a warrant article the work that um Chaz has done working with Guardian Our IT company they're putting in a new fiber Wan connection between buildings and I estimate that will reduce the Mis budget by about $10,000 um because it'll have a system that is much more robust and and lowering the monthly charges for a number of pieces of equipment we're going to amend the we're gonna have an article that amends the um North Middle sex school budget to reflect their latest assessment that assessment is 14, 362,552 th000 less than what they had asked for in April now how much [Music] it the six something I'm sorry what um let me see if I can bring up the I think this questions around what the budget numbers are so let me as low of their assessment $629,500 that was from what they asked for in April that's not the number that was voted the number that was voted in May was their last year's budget okay so as as when you trickle this down through the budget this latest decrease actually shows an increase in the ominous budget because we were using FY 24 numbers in the budget so I'm just I I've just brought up the budget and highlighting those two lines for nor midle sex so um so if we look at what was in the budget if you look under the the column F the FY 24 that's what we had in the budget in a in May is we had the these same two numbers bar forward into 2025 now these these would be the numbers moving forward into the FY 25 budget again so you you see the um the exempt debt is dropping by 6% and the 5.6% in increase in the operating budget so it's a $691,000 increase um year over-year ref white 24 to 25 okay I mean that's a big number but that's that's what drives it um the next we're going to do a little bit of a budget cutting in the selectman's budget there's a align item four for automobile allowance we're going to cut that by um down to 2,000 so that's a saving of 2,800 the selectman have negotiated a contract with the New Town Administrator and that'll reduce line one for the TA salary by $110,000 I'm also going to have a warrant article to recapture Old Town Meeting articles um those are Appropriations for various projects or equipment that are complete and still have a balance remaining so one will help clean up the accounting system by getting rid of those old um projects and two I think we can return about $19,000 to either free cash or back into stabilization so that'll be a a a slight offset to expenses um there's a warrant article to do a drainage easement at 94 fitzburg that should have zero cost to it there'll be a warrant article to um pay um $13,200 to the highway department for a cat loader as in Caterpillar loader that's part of a lease agreement we think there will be maybe $10,000 of Prior year bills um Coming forward and at the end of the night I think that I'm going to recommend transferring some amount of money I think it looks like $95,000 from stabilization to balance the budget and and this is when I do the mic drop because I expected that response well I the only reason you get it from me is it's terrible to F to fund ongoing expenses with one-time Mony I realize we don't have a lot of choices but we're stepping closer to bankruptcy every single step we take when we do that kind of thing well Andrea yes I agree with you you shouldn't spend savings accounts or onetime funds on operating budgets but stabilization is legitimately used to balance the budget it has been in other towns for years um we have $1.3 million in stabilization today um and I think taking potentially 95 out of it is is not the end of the world I would like I don't think it it's the end of the world either and I don't I think other towns do it because they get the in somewhat the same mind we are in but because others do it doesn't make it the right thing to do understood understood so I'm throwing out ideas because I want to work with the finance committee between now and town meeting to come up with a workable solution and I've give you an outline of where I am today um but I can give my recommendations but I work at the direction of the of the Selectmen and and I believe in not I listen to the finance committee y so so along those lines um I know during FY 24 we sold three properties so that money came into the general fund will be certified coming for coming when when we get the preast certification yes if this was a loan and we paid it back on the same warrant article or passed it if it's if it's another warrant article that's necessary that says we we are going to refund re remove 95,000 into stabilization from free cash um similar to what you what you're doing with the police I mean that's that's moving 95,000 out from say July into December when we get free cash so from that money from those three properties um maybe it is re restarted you know so we're we're borrowing it for a little bit but we need to rebuild it we took $200,000 out um a while ago and we paid retroactive raises to the employees in town hall with the intention to pay it back we haven't if we don't have the intention of paying this back and showing it come back in we're going to go down that path of continuing to use it because and again looking at the fiveyear if we need 95,000 from stabilization this year and we don't make any changes in the basic budget we're going to be looking for 95,000 again next year if everything stays at% Y and more more than likely more so we we have to we really have to look at at this as the canary in the in the co mine that says we're in trouble and that that only takes if if it's 100,000 it's only it you know you're talking 10 11 years before you've totally drained it at this rate and it could be higher um yeah Don and Andrea I agree with you 100% but but my dilemma is how do we continue to fund vital services without doing this and the second part of it is what do you use stabilization for if you never you I mean taxpayers have already paid for that money what do you use it for or when do you use it and I would say when when there's an extraordinary event not an ongoing year-to-year budget okay yeah I that that's just personally how I I look at it it's kind of like um you know if if if I was drawing down my [Music] savings I my I I'd be scared that I that I wouldn't be able to continue and and how quickly it would happen um and we have to have that same concern for the town so again if we if we take it and can put together how we're going to fund FY 26 with these numbers and and some of the increases it's that that gives you a better Vision than than a one-year Vision looking at it saying we're going to continue this way and we're going to be in trouble because that's what that's how I'd look at this it's kind of like but again this is this is an initial look at it um and I and I think we we have that deeper dive we need to we need to really see what the budget's going to look like um and can we sustain what what can we sustain because if if we do and request a $900,000 override to to fund this budget and we're still borrowing $100,000 why aren't we going for the million and say that it you know it it's kind of like that that it will go our our stabilization the budget is getting bigger our stabilization is going to start getting lower we're tier two in in I would like in how much the percentage of where the stabilization fund is in total as a total percentage of your total budget we're going to continue shrinking that I would rather go the other way and go move to tier one and have more stabilization available in the event I don't we if we had something catastrophic like we need a a roof and replace at Town Hall how are we going to fund all the some of the building changes and updates that are going to to be if those are onetime funds that's probably more um more palatable use of stabilization fund for me okay well this is why I started this conversation um in the big picture when you're faced with high inflation at beginning of this year and last year and and still moderate inflation now you know three plus percent inflation is is hard to account for with a two and a half percent um tax you know restriction yeah exactly we haven't and I know I I just started thinking about things the other day what what are the thing it's kind of like um I know we have conservation land and things like that is there some way to work with conservation and do cutting and get some sell Timber it's kind of like um it's I understand it's conservation land but sometimes it needs to be maintained and is thinning thinning it something it's kind of like just a thought I I haven't mentioned it to anybody else it actually maintains the land to and clean it clean yeah it's kind anyway a good idea however it would also there would also be a cost involved in getting somebody to do that but it might be a bidding you you bid to clear this this much from an area just a thought I I haven't talked to conservation something that if we're going to pursue it would would have to happen and I I understand that I don't I don't say those things lightly it just looking at ways is there a little bit of way you know is there some some other way to get some Revenue that we had we hadn't thought of that's well so so that's the budget summary yeah um I I will I will sort of close by saying I've looked at the line items I helped create the you know the line items two and a half years ago yeah I believe the town services are vital and necessary and important to keep um but at some point if you if the finance committee and the Selectmen and eventually the voters say we're not going to use trash fees to balance the budget we're not going to use any of the stabilization to balance the budget we're talking cutting Services which we've tried to avoid you know delaying the purchase of four of four police cruises is not going to impact the police department significantly but cutting services I think I think is wrong but it's the end of the day if we don't have other Revenue that's what will have to happen and maybe each of you can go through the the ominous budget that I've sent tonight and send me suggestions and things you think should be cut if if you're not willing to go with the sort of the draft plan I put out tonight Well they um I know I I just did get it out to everybody after after my the appointment I had today so um we youve you've done a good job introducing the changes um and we can see here on the the Town Administrator line the Highlight in red the 125 so that that change with the with the notes in column k um for for what the change changes are um and in the impact so we can we can there is is it a spot and easy to find and we can even use filters to do that well I encourage any of you to to contact me individually with suggestions um um I'm throwing things out sort of as a starting point we we need to work it out you know by early August [Music] yep yeah and and again I know it is um the trash situations are are only just starting but you know it's kind of like um how the implementation plan would go how how does somebody opt out and get their own how how do people combine you know it's kind of like um there are people that don't use much so one one bucket it um would could be shared between three houses that I know of um on a regular basis it's kind of like so um the other question would be recycling is is a recycling for the whole town or is it just for people that are paying the the trash fee what do you mean by that um um like I like I have a recycled bucket in the trash and and so if you pay for pay for it it's there but if you don't pay for trash do you can you still put out a recycling bucket oh I see so if we go to a fee fee TR trash thing and I choose not to maybe my neighborhood goes to a private contractor say yeah can I still put out my yeah again well there's some way to work around that because the state requires that we recycle we don't recycle because we're so goody goody we recycle because they force us so so just just question it I throw them out there because I I think they're questions people are going to have um as as we move forward with some of these potential options you kind of now it's kind of like if I go back to taxes and things like that I would rather see the the trash in my tax line and paying it as a tax if I'm paying it as a fee if you're able to use your real estate taxes as a deduction you you would be able to deduct that not just so yeah so it's kind of like is frozen cons I'm sorry go on yeah no that was all I was going to point out with that it's kind of like you know it's not for everybody but it it if you're gonna if you're going to pay it why not haveen in your tax bill but it's kind of you know um do taxes or do trash by U payment individual payment um we're still going to have to budget something because if you look at the tax rate some people don't pay their bills and if you there but if you're contracted with somebody to do a chore you you've got to pay them all the money they need so that even charging a fee for trash pickup is going to be a really tricky business it it is and you know and if you don't pay it how do you how how how does the truck know not to pick somebody up because they didn't pay their fee it's kind of like it it there is going to be a lot of Downstream questions and issues that that arise with regarding that I think we should be I I mean I know that Ross is working hard and I know that the Selectmen are thinking about this a great deal but trash pickup comes under the Board of Health legally they should be including them in war to help resolve that problem good point and thank you we will oh thank you yeah It's Tricky okay so um any other questions for Ross at this point I know we've hit a lot um the files have just come out so um you haven't necessarily had a chance to look at them yet are we G to get high copies those um we will get hard copies of them yes and I apologize for sending them late I had some other things appointments today but I will get them to you earlier for your next meeting I appreciate it it's kind of like it it was a combination I was also away at the eye doctor being dilated so I couldn't read anything for those couple of hours well it and that that happens we have other things to do so um with that Russ thank you the information is good if we have any additional questions um we can we can get them documented to you great yes please keep me posted and send me car's email um I'll talk to you all next week if not before thank you thank you and next week is back to six o'clock for this group okay yeah all right I'm I'm gonna sign off now unless there's something else I can do for you um I heard no question so we're good all right thanks R thank you so I just had a question um like when you talk about the stabilization but is there a place where I could find where it's with all these little accounts mean like what's the stabilization account I don't really know what it is some of it will be uh a little bit of trication you you're going to you're going to get a little information um one of the items on the agenda um I had planned to purchase um and I'll jump to that out of out of order no it's uh that was the on the bus budget and so now old business um item one the MMA Financial Training reference documents um we had voted in one of our June meetings that I would go out and purchase two copies and this is where you're going to it's a primer MMA is a resource Massachusetts Mutual Association municipality Association um they have a lot of good information um ds. goov for the mass.gov has good information but the plan was to purchase two of these reference sets so that you could take them and read them and get that kind of stuff um so there there there is um and I wanted to mention that that I didn't pick them up because it said member price was $25 and I was only able to access the non-member so I didn't want to do that um and in the meantime I also have contacted the treasurer um to see if we have to use a form and approve a particular form that signs off all of the board um all the finance committee members approved me going out and purchasing it and spending from our dues and subscriptions account um so I'm following up on that and we will have documentation in in the old days or not that many old days a couple years ago even they sent out discs and but before they sent out handbook and U it came from the MMA and all those definitions were there because that's where I learned oh okay thank you so we will yeah it it's kind of like all of all of this has been a learning experience over multiple years from me I I I came in I had no no introduction to it and I I my my introduction had been business accounting in in in some of it and budgets and it's kind of like and the spending money on Capital and depreciating it is kind of like is totally different here and you you just have to it's it's a mind because I know working for the federal government you know whatever your appropriation line is that's all you can spend that that's all you can spend that money on unless you go through this process of removing it and putting it in they're very strict on where you spend money or how you spend your money that you're budgeted yeah so you one we'll hear about for us we have $50,000 in a revert Reserve fund that the finance committee um will manage and it is meant for un unexpected expenses that came up during the year or or unexpected from from a department budget so they they do their Department budgets at the beginning of the year if there's something unanticipated that had come up um we have the ability to um transfer some money to pay to an account to pay to pay that particular expense um one of the things that is is next on the list so we talked about the reference documents um is I'm sort of talking jump down item for in the new business Define the processes and terminology um for what we're using and also cify the uh uses for Reserve fund because we maybe haven't done a good job getting out to the um department heads what that money is used for and and what to approaches for with it you know items that that should be presented to us or items that need maybe a special Barn article um when when they've over spent the appropriation so you're very familiar with with that termin they just can't overspend an appropriation and come us and say I didn't budget enough God no we' be fired if we did that yeah so so it's kind of like those those are the pieces that we have we have to um look at and and Define so there's a little work here with within within the finance committee to make sure we can communicate that out know when the Departments submit a budget like do is maintenance you know of is that is that ever included in the budget like you know we know the heating system is 20 years old and we're going to have to replace or do maintenance or something yeah we have we need to yeah I mean there's some but when it get it's usually lumed into a repair and maintenance line so you don't know what's maintenance and what's repair so we have to as we get to it either we have to have the discussion that we want to see maintenance on one line and Repair on another so you can specifically see it or we're going to be looking for additional information behind that line and how do we get to that yeah because there's a difference between the repair and the mainten it is you know last last year we had two septic pumps out here go it's kind of like which means your septic system isn't work kind like now that would have been a repair and and we known about it but you know we we looked at it as an expense for the reserve fund because there wasn't money in the repair budget so but but again if if we look at it that's probably not what Reserve fund was meant for I I just noticed that a lot of public buildings not necessarily here but public I mean even at h space I means they just don't budget for maintenance right until until it's broken and then it cost thousands more than they they fixed it if they had just put some maintenance in it I mean but they they won some engineering award years ago in the 80s to put I think one of the solar panels on the roof and they and they won some major award you know this engineering feat they put solar panels on the roof of one of the buildings I worked in and then I think they worked for like a year and then they all rusted and corroded and they're I mean they're still there and they're rusted and corroded so so I mean in the federal government's the worst as far as maintenance of anything goes in some departments we put maintenance off so um long or deliberately maybe even so that we just get replacement mhm yeah and it seems that that they're guided towards that is that that's a bad thing that's the thing we have to get over yeah I agree with that um yeah and I could see some some of that just just in general government thinking yeah and then well see I I don't I think maybe that's part of the problem is that there's not a free enough exchange of information or viewing that somebody can really see overall you just take what the department tells you if the department tells you it doesn't need any maintenance or doesn't bother the maintenance uh with maintenance then nothing is done we have to we in order to make this work and with like have the maintenance department we have have got to open the lines of communication and information exchange much better than it is now well people dep tend not to want to put money into maintenance because they could put it into other things there is yeah there is a project going on right now um that the board of Selectmen are running to evaluate all of the Town facilities and that with that contract when they're done they will present a list of all the recommendations for repairs and and maintenance to be done facil it it's a very good thing it it can help us look and plan and prioritize if they say something looks like it's going to break within two years versus something that's going to break in five or 10 you can prioritize where where the money go on is that just buildings though um well my understanding was that um it it was for all the facilities um I don't think I don't know that they were looking at um like roads and things that that I would leave the gym and high okay and I'm sorry I'm gonna just jump back on because I skipped over the review of the B was one of the things that we said we wanted to do this summer was take a look at the bylaws um as there's a bylaw Review Committee and mark them up and and see if we can pass recommendations for bylaw changes to the bylaw committee and uh get them in so um I did send them out today it was a PDF file um that's taken from the bylaws on the town website where where we can uh is it just this one here yeah that's that's it it's just two pages yeah yeah oh okay yep just those two pages those are by um but if there's things we want to get in there to identify and make changes for I don't you know I won't do it today I think we you know we we do have other time but I just thought you can take Mark markup things that you think would strengthen what we do um or changes if delete if there's something we should do delete it kind of do we ever like when they submit a budget the department do they like is there any kind a statement that says there's supposed to be a statement yes that says you know if if I need this because or they commend and if I don't get it the world's gonna come to an end um there are those um I don't see a lot of them but um I will tell you the police chief does his uh regularly and that's a good example that he should be looking for everybody for it it does say when you look at the budget process it says I'm to submit the budget with my budget letter and we haven't seen the budget letters I would present well you know one thing that H has happened in in years past the different departments submitted their budget at the same time to the finance committee and the board of selectors now except for the town clerk they they give it to the the um Selectmen and when you go through many hands it's very likely that parts are left out probably like the letters yeah okay so maybe that's something we want to put in a b or something or look at the procedure um there there is a budget procedure and process that we should follow oh yeah I did have that too okay you've been you've been perusing the the website a lot of good information it was and I was wondering if we actually follow it um so far no but we would like to get back to it or or make changes to it if if we're not following it and and modify it um one of the things that they did try to do last year was I think it was last year change changed the dates on the warrant articles for the special the annual the special town meeting at the annual um because when the warrant articles had to be finished by the beginning of May in a lot of cases we didn't know what exactly you might need to add so it's kind of like because it's in in order to hit the March time frame you're talking six months before before the meeting so they wanted to try to delay it a little bit till like April 1 so that it's a lot closer to um to town meeting and you have a better understanding of where the budget is and what else you might need in a special so it's kind of like so those changes might be coming for yeah because I think you know what we want is everybody to submit the budget the with the same information right with the same information you know it's you know whatever the little statement is like I got to have it yeah right and and some of the things it's kind of like we look at and we've talked about them in the past when line says other what do you mean by other it's kind of like let's let's give that yeah what what is yeah what does other miscellaneous and what is what does that mean yeah yeah yeah with with those kinds of things just kind of like a little bit to say what miscellanous is everybody miscellanous to me means whatever I wanted to be right yeah in in every Department too because a lot of times they'll have a category um that just doesn't easily fit in anywhere so they throw it miscellania well and that's okay as long as it's an explanation information of what missan yeah I mean yes I agree there's always a point where something doesn't fit into whatever categories you have and you have to have like a little other or miscellanous and just is an explanation okay y yep those those those are the sort of things where on for all right so next time we're going to take a few at a time what you want to do or um 124 or 123 or something like that on the on the bud what do you mean no the um um there's only six lines six yeah um but there's a lot of information in the that one I think you've got there oh is that what it is okay um oh that's what I have okay all right the same thing okay yeah so um if you want we can split it between two we can you know do one two and three and then then maybe that would be best rather than yep rather than do it all at once and try to capture weing that into the agenda um so far I have not heard from Board of Selectmen whether they want to have a joint meeting [Music] August let's see one of August 6 and 20 it's kind of like so will not be here on the 6th it's my birthday and I will not be here happy birthday yeah happy birthdayday that would yeah we we don't have a meeting schedule I had as we were looking at this we we booked what are the potentials and so six six and 20 were Selectmen meetings and so we said if they wanted to join then we we would join them for a Jo that's kind and I don't me um and so we we haven't heard anything on there so at this point our next meeting is July 30th at 6 pm and then I have scheduled August 13th at 6:m oh okay um we if if it gets busy and hectic we may go to Thursdays [Music] okay okay so that's everything on the agenda that I had um any any last thoughts questions um we need to add to an agenda for next week those hard copies for theit yeah yeah I'll work with yeah it's kind of like it's kind of kind of tough to to see it at 4:00 and then I know that's problem we'll be working but I do like to I like yeah you like I do me too I like paper especially on on budgets that are easier oh yeah yeah get them on I'm an old person I like paper yeah I'm not a digital I don't like the digital age sobody no it's kind of like I can you know I can go either way but it's a lot easier for me I can um when I'm doing it on my own rather than right rather sharing it's kind of like um but for following along and making notes it's kind of like paper paper good for everybody so that um okay and Andrew you've been quiet any any last thoughts on what no I'm just asking if there's any last thoughts uh for today or something for next week no okay then at this point I would entertain a motion to adjourn make a motion to adjourn I'll second okay and roll call vote on the agenda yes car Hoff says yes Andrea wood yes yes and that wasment so we stand