welcome everybody this is the towns and finance committee U like to call the meeting to order at 6:08 PM this April 30th 2024 um as we have remote members for the finance committee roll call attendance please is here Mark Casi here Andre wood here Dam Grant here on he here with that we have a quum we are able to continue share we should be sharing the agenda that we have we were calling the meeting to order we've done the roll call um this meeting is being recorded for playback um at a future times on Channel 9 is also broadcast live Channel 9 and available on the YouTube channel forward um at this time there are no additions or deletions um to the to the agenda um is there anything that has come up for anybody else in the last 24 hours no not not okay that with no changes we'll continue um into the work session the work session there's supposed to be a joint meeting with b selectman um to discuss the budget at this time there is no uh select board members let me check and I do not see any select board members on the zoom call and there's no at this point we'll continue um and jump back to the Joint meeting if that if we get U members in in the room or or on the zo next on the agenda we had the reserve fund transfer request is that in the um it is not part of the okay I saw it earlier though when you said that in it was I sent an email earlier um this just been submitted [Music] um downloaded it was it insurance this is another Insurance prepay um and if we jump over to the reserve fund file on the transfer request FL um this this one it would be um FY 24 rf9 and it's another $10,000 invoice currently with what we have approved today we have 11,669 in the account so that LE us with about a th is6 if and that tells us that the two that we had on hold facilities we would not definitely not be able to what's the issue with facilities still is it just payable work um no we we held them because they had submitted it was a total of 26,000 yeah um know that sounds High um the it was the boiler and the it was the the ones we did the generator and the ceiling repair yeah so the total for them was 22,400 we approved the first two which was 15,000 um and we we want we did not want to deplete the reserve fund so we held on to the other two if their account went was about to go negative we would have reviewed it again do we know what that is now it was about 5,000 it still left it still left but that didn't include these it did not include these um no it included these oh it did okay yeah they have been paid this would be reimbursement I see the account yeah yeah for for those and we got minimal time left we we have starting tomorrow we have Municipal transfer correct so we have the the next okay available to us okay but that gets us to um the situation do we want do we want to come down to the for 16 the 1,669 we probably wouldn't have much of anything we could do right excuse me yeah the municipal transfers will be put off a little bit because uh until one more selectman gets back in town or can be contacted because they can't do them with just one member so so the municipal transfers may be off a little bit back the first of May but I would assume be corrected in a couple of weeks yeah yeah yeah I don't think we want to deplete that down that far that'd be my so we if they can hang on what do they got oh nothing right let me check and see Insurance yeah I do see Eric on the line um Eric um I guess if I quote a question to you for um how urgent is um getting this invoice paid for the so if if if the bencom feels more comfortable holding on for a few weeks before approving it I don't think there would be a concern um you know okay I understand that that rationale um just like you held on to the facilities ones earlier um as you noted at this going forward if we have um any other emergencies comeing in we do have the ability to make Municipal relief transfers um to to cover emergencies outside of the reserve fund so yeah okay so we can we we can take this and um put table with for now yeah I guess leaving the money in our account leaving that thousand in our account is isn't a fact us right it it's just going to come out of a different account it needs to come out of a different account if we yeah right but how does that we we replenish every year what does that do the other account um the the other accounts are are similar it's it's just like our Reserve fund account it's a year toe if it any unused so it's in the budget every year un balance goes to the yeah unus balance goes to free certification and then the the budgets are suppose it looks better if we got 10 grand left instead of a thousand but it means nothing really it it doesn't mean a lot on the budget because if it's 10,000 in our account or 10,000 in somebody else's account looks like we're more graceful though um it gives us the ability to react because as we said if if there is an immediate need it's better for us to have $11,000 yeah than to be at 1,600 until we have the full structure that we could get water select and finance committee together with quorums and approved so maybe we should just table I just I think we should just table it okay I would I would feel a lot more comfortable if the the money for facilities came from um a municipal transfer because like I said it doesn't really meet the criteria of the reserve fund all it really showed was that facilities willfully under budgeted when yeah when there's when there's failures of of systems and and Equipment year because when we look at it between the police and Facilities that's spend majority of the of the of the transfers this year um we do have meeting scheduled for Thursday we can't resolve anything by then so it would have to be say the week after Tom meeting that we get back together look get I don't have an issue tbling it okay you need to make a motion yeah let's make a motion on the transfer fund all right I'll make a motion that we table the um request that's in front of us right now okay second we have a motion and a second to table this put it put it on hold for now um a any further discussion that's on the phone none being heard we do a roll call vote please J B is yes Mark hassy yes Andrea wood yes Dam Grant yes and Don Hayes yes so we have it on our log and ready we will um review it again in in in our next our regular meeting thank you for that CL [Music] um and at this point I had on the agenda to review the annual INSP special to meeting right know there's a lot of people in the audience sign um I don't think so that's I I was going to say we hav't yeah I'd say I'd say no we we have online people it's kind of so I think I think we be know that we need the receipt but I know they they're here it request Bo of Select me so if feel terrible where we're continuing on with our agenda that we can get to I think it really stinks that it set up as a as a joint meeting and none of them showed up so that's just my opinion this is how um this is why I really wonder why I volunteer my time we do have quite a few people here but um and I hope a lot more heard what I just said I'm sure they did okay so this this special time meting warrant is this new they just put numbers in it put the numbers in it this this was finalized and posted on the 23rd a week M it was posted too late for us to riew last week right I I saw it after the day came out I just um on town meeting day we we provide a recommendation she so we are normalist to go through and those articles that have Financial impact we make our recommendation then so we're not talk about any Cuts or anything tonight am I correct um because we're not aware of where we rarely at we we have we we only have the last budget that was provided which is um is that what we got here in the warrant um it's very close I think there's maybe three or four lines that are changed I because it's not electronic I have to go through line by line right right so you don't know if there's any changes um none of us yeah from the last a that we saw again um the night of could be um but we can um that's that's a little tough maybe when we get to it I can I can use the subtotal lines and and identify areas that may have changed and see if we can that should be brought out what do we ask everyone try to do a um there was that request request um to see if if departments could could do that um there's been no no changes no nothing nothing has been submitted um that will change I see um the Warren article yet so so any changes in here we're not aware of nothing has been brought to our attention nothing has has been part to our attention um and and my conversation with Eric yesterday nothing has changed nothing nothing has changed as as a result um today of the request that we heard about time so you g to join us know um right now we we were just moving into he we were just talking about changes no changes to we're doing okay we we can go back in in the agenda and um we skip skipped over here um which was item item one joint meeting with and I did not see any other select online yes I I wanted to post that just in case one of them came in because I didn't want to them pop in and then we had to do yes yeah yeah so this is working Section what is all right had an opportunity to meet with Town Council in regards to the town meeting and some protocols that we needed to get straightened out so I wanted to make sure that we had that all set before um so I don't have your agenda in front of me so we just it it was relatively open it was just they have the discussion I wasn't sure any sub there were no specific subjects okay um or set riew we can okay it um any any way we want but we we fall in those perameters all right I just want to make sure that everybody um a do you guys have the free cash amount that we have available I do not okay no freecast amount is 379,000 327 the uh did you guys receive the letter from this uh we sent out a letter from Nancy Haynes from North Middle sex did you guys get that yeah no um you guys can pass that around real quick um they had a meeting uh and they reduced their um assessment um the reduction is 300,000 uh the 300,000 is in general so 300,000 from 1 point was that real estate no from North Middle SE yeah so we're still that would that would take it down the boat yeah I have you can when you get it you get the you'll get the the figures that I worked out with the Town Administrator um so it's not that big of reduction no it's I didn't really expect a huge one um I didn't either if I can just say something real quick just to clarify that these don't know those it's from the total school budget yeah so it's about 140,000 from Town's portion of the school budget correct yes so I'm sorry I apologize I just wanted to make that clear oh that's good idea oh so that's in this reflex in this budget the warrant budget I don't think it's not in the warrant budget okay at this point I think the warrant was supposed to be yeah there was posted a lot that last week we put in uh Eric can you um refresh me if I'm wrong or correct me if I'm wrong we put in the budget um what the the what last year was plus a 3% no so we in the budget the the numbers that are in the budget are the entirety of what they requested in the budget that's on the warrant yes correct okay yeah all right so we can take that number off Don you have a 2023 this is last year's budget you have up on yep um yep I'm sorry I wish that was the real number yeah me too me going yeah yeah it's kind of sorry I was I was comparing year over year and it was open recently thank you Eric for picking up on that I you would have seen it very quickly I'm sure yeah is yeah we're talking about that was you're talking about right but take take 14,000 30 not good yes we're still growthly inbalanced right it it's still a 10% increase and the number is 1.32 one yeah ball correct just change know the going to be I can't see oh I don't think his sheet align with does it9 you got it it does line okay good so that'll become what I did is I put in the number that is being subtracted to 14358 1 32936 so that would be their number with their adduction um which doesn't really so instead it's going to be 10 doesn't really help us out it doesn't um I wanted to be able to to talk with with uh everyone in regards to what your thoughts were of where where do you want to go from here um I I I guess with with the budget and the operating budget how far down we with the particular numbers that we have in here where's the [Music] sheet Eric do you have that number on you I'm sorry it was a little bit garbled what number are we looking for we're looking for how much we're out of balance right now so it's the total of the the the two School budgets so the increases in the two School budgets so if you go back up to the education budget yeah it's that 1.32 million plus the 287,000 so 1.32 plus the 287 so what is that 1.6 1ish half if I do this right yeah one 1.8 yeah 1.69 3937 so we're going to um, 694,000 so that's what we're looking at and we're inbalance with everything else um in the budget as far as the town as far as so I mean that's that's the um you know the the the the funding for the remainder of the budget is inbalance but obviously you know the $287,000 from theob Tech that override failed we're gonna have to pay that because that budget is going to pass they will get Five Towns to pass that budget um yeah so that that's not a number that's going to change so we're going to have to come up with a way to to to to fund the nooba uh Thea Valley Technical High School budget um and and in all likelihood we're going to have to come up with a way to fund at least a portion of the North Middle sex budget now I I I don't know um I know that there's a scheduled um that that uh peil is discussing scheduling an a second override vote for Mid June okay yeah ashb is also discussing a um having an override vote in early to mid June um so I think Ashby's assessment didn't drop almost anything at all with the reduction from the schools so they're still going to be the deficit they had before um and it took about 170,000 off of the peol deficit but they were still they were already looking at almost a $3 million override but they're discussing having another override vote in June as well um on the towns side to answer your question we took into consideration the um we had the arpa funded which we have been incrementally putting into our budget which um those are are would be absorbed completely in the budget correct all right so that um we don't have those outliers in that um we we also have um you know we have to stop and think that uh fire we are getting a contribution from their ambulance receipts that they're they're giving back to the town which I think is important to note as well um the um um the ask from all the Departments um we did ask for you know them to keep to be as lean as possible insurance came in higher than what we expected um you know the the what we expected the two and a half or 3% you know kind of went up to 6% on other other costs um so um you said the fire department gu oh the ambulance fund ambulance fund they've always been they've always contributed well but they're contributing much higher than what they have in the past now they make a lot of money which is good so um I know yeah a lot of times people know and um it's it's a great service we got but we have to pay it's expensive the whole the whole everything's expensive uh whether it's for the town or for ourselves or for other companies um where what what do you do what do you really do okay it's it's apparent it's to me that there are going to have to be some Cuts made um because the town will certainly not pass another override for what we're looking at it's not going to happen so um I guess we look to each other to try to figure out how to get this done it's so part of the reason why I wanted to talk to you guys is my my thoughts I'm not speaking for the board I'm speaking for sure um instead of looking at it um as US versus them School versus town all of that kind of stuff we're Community yeah all right we we have services that we are providing for our residents um each piece together is Townsen it's not just the highway department and plowing or you know the the rec center takes care of the kids it's the rec center taking care of the kids while the roads are being ploted by High way while the library is you know doing all of their programming the senior center is is doing a phenomenal job with what they do and I'll be honest if you look at each department that's that's in here um they're really creating a very diverse programming with the money that they're getting so it's I don't see excesses in any of these departments taking one from another just to to match things um I just don't think is right so we need to look at it as we as the community right exactly but we also need to look at it as you know we have our elderly I just became part of that recently okay congratulations thank you elderly but I'm retired I just recently retired we have a lot of people in town that have retired and they cannot afford this I mean and I don't know um we all have to put a stop on our our budgets too and everybody has to do that we all have to contribute the schools the state if I could speak about that quickly for one moment the state we you I was at the meeting you were at the state has not changed their calculation for the contribution to our towns in many many years but at the same time they insist upon mandates mandates for teachers for curriculums they need to start helping my only hope is that the state will look at towns like us like Groton like Westford like a lot of other towns that are even better off than us they can now longer afford it the state has to help us somehow it is not our fault we do all we can we do the best we can for our town but it has to come to an end because the well is dry you know and I don't know how we make the state understand everybody's problem that's all the same you know I I just um the the conversations that um that I went to a to a um a conference on Saturday down in Northampton um I think there's two avenues that that Townson would be flexible to go into number one is we're a rural Town we're considered a royal Town we're kind of like in the middle of you know the the end of the Boston stuff and the beginning of the the western Mass considered role but we fit into the Royal category um part of of the conference was to look to see we need to Define what royal means as being a royal Community there has to be a stringent definition on what that means it's very it's very uh um Amic it changes depending upon whether you're outside in in the Quin area here having said that um I think we have we have opportunities um because we are closer to the city I think that can be to our advantage all right voicing the opinions to the state rap voicing our opinions to um to our Senator I think is important uh we also have legislature that is is being passed in the budget that I think will help us out there's some Transportation money for schools that's in there there's there's it's not going to help us is it's not it's but I well they have it in the fiscal year for 25 and I have a feeling it's past the house it's going to go in the Senate and it's gonna will that change it's gonna go through I you know it's going to go through all these kinds of changes so I'm resting on the same thought as you I'm not going to yeah I mean I think that's where the issue lies with that problem at least I mean we certainly support our schools the best we can but when other people other entities or whatever mandate things that we can no longer afford they gotta help they they just can't say do this and not help us it doesn't work it right so then what happens the town's in an upro everybody's mad at each other you know is this what they want I honestly I honestly think that no matter what we do or what we decide to do we're gonna make you know it's it's um my thought um we do have um the municipal solid waste and um recyclable material collection and Disposal contract did you guys get copies of that yeah just recently was it eight something it it depends it depends on totes no totes yeah it's about $100,000 difference I think yeah what I what I did just up not 100 I'm sorry 10 um didn't seem like a whole bunch more for the totes so if we well it's less to include the totes it it was less okay then I I misread it okay um what I have up here is col be fy2 if we get the totor it's 892 if we don't do the totor it's 926 okay the difference at 34,000 a year if we if we go with the totes and again that that allows them to have a oneman truck with automatic pick um so I think that's where we're seeing we're seeing the savings what I tried to do here and and I cherry-picked the numbers I only took the the big contract what's not included here is all of the containers that are spread around the town with their pickup prices because there are additional things in here this is this is just the big I I'd call it the the household pickup and and not the rest of the things that were in right MP buildings yeah the town hall one the meing room the library all all the ones that are around town Highway was one container is that so we're not recycling is that no I think it's two containers that's one Recycling and one yeah because they they still want to change and they provide the T because the machine has to have the same same style to be able to pick it up consistently you can't have pieces out there and that's that's the big key to to U for Shaws is to have the machine pick up the tote and put it into the as opposed to having somebody on the back of the truck sure that's the liability yeah um and their contracts have those definite amounts for the first three years when we get into year four and five they have market pricing on on several lines so what I've included here with Aster and plus is just the line for the pickup not the tonnage and the and the Tipping fees because that says market price in in the fourth and fifth year so we don't have solid numbers for those yet which means that we don't know what that that's going to be we don't know what and if we agree to the contract we're going to be tied into it not knowing what that not KN that's not a good deal have we broken that down as to what actually cost per household I can give you a rough idea it um I was going to say how many households uh roughly 3,100 a year yeah so no 3,100 oh three oh yeah so I mean just quickly on on math I'll I'll take the the number and say it's 287 a year per household for household yeah I get I get roughly 292 and that's roughly if you want to break it down to $73 per quarter yeah so if you're if you're looking at a comparison to um the override figures and the trash contract it would be it would be I I figured at 292 a year and and it could be because again this is this is just the top line for for the pickup it's not not the rest of the item in right and of course it'll go up as as you have it here roughly per year yeah year on the first three I think will be the same why would they want you to sign a contract that long and not have the information for the last three years or two years well if I I had a little exposure to some trash and recycling ping yeah um tipping fees are going up they can't predict three years out what the fees are going to be how much how much are they going to have to pay to to dump all trash then offer it well but that's that's the piece you know it's kind of like you so I think what they've offered is this is what it will cost to pick it up but we don't know how much it is on and if you would have changed from a three from a five to a three that jack up the first three right so the the board of selectman was was faced with um uh we get this an hour before we had to close the warrant as far as the contract is concerned and the fact that it was going up to to five year border selectman can't sign a five-year contract so he had to put it on put it on the special meeting so that's why you know there's there's a special for a five-year contract with with totes and one without so that's on the special um to let the town vote on on what they want for that um so then the waste is not in the budget then correct okay correct or or the total amount yeah the total amount is right it's kind of like there is a number in there back here it's towards is yeah so the the decision is is a threee or a fiveyear contract and Shaw would like a a five-year contract this is why we're we put it in um and so we had 8 825 as as the number the estimate yes so if that doesn't pass as it shouldn't because it's a five a contract with two years unknown what do we do then well we would have to we would have to go back to Shaw and say that the town has said that they want a three-year contract and Shaw would have to and then we we wouldn't have a budget still but we have that's correct a certain amount of time till then right um we have until until July you know it it's the I guess the things that make me personally uncomfortable is there's a lot of moving parts to this right now that to the whole budget believe me I know I understand the so I I just want to be very clear that you know I've gone over this budget more than I have ever gone over my own personal checkbook um and we are looking at every spot that we can that we can um we can cut the most important thing I guess that I want to throw out is that it's going to depend on what the school comes back to us if if two towns don't do not agree with this this recent um um and that's not till June correct yeah well it it'll be known in our town meeting whether or not we want we are going to approve that budget or not if we're out of budget I mean the school budget we can't am I correct that cannot be approved it was voted against so so it looks like no matter what we're not going to have a balanced budget for several reasons after the town meeting which is okay but we have to we're going to have several more we're going to have a lot of work to do correct after that will we need another meeting to then okay that would be in August we will have to no it wouldn't be in August would Bey well we have the the selectman um forecasted I don't want to say had premonition but we forecasted just in case we had to go to another um ballot boat yeah and the ballot boat we have set for June okay that right that would be over for the schools oh Eric's got his hand up oh sorry we missed Eric no that's okay you guys are talking I didn't want to interrupt um yeah so so there is a date that has been tentatively scheduled for a subsequent override for Townson on June 11 June um Ju Just to be clear the there has not been a ballot question proposed by the the board of Selectmen yet because we were waiting for a you know the a subsequent budget from the schools to see if they had lower the number they did but not a lot we are still within the 90 days from the appropriation vote that we took at special town meeting in March right which means we don't have to have that appropriation vote for the override in the annual town meeting it already is in effect yeah even though we voted down an override once you have 90 days within which to approve it which is why we could still approve it on the 11th of J of June and hearken back to that March 19th appropriation vote um we could approve what over oh okay okay I thought you meant we going to wait till we to do well there's there's um there the it's the trash contract is is to me something that we would be able to make some changes on if we if we made a uh if if the selectman voted to impose the trash fee on there um that would free up that amount of money towards the budget impose the trash fee what the the like I said that 70 for for each household yeah and uh we would treat that the same way as um if somebody didn't pay their water it would be taken out of the tax levy anyway would be considered a betterment on our tax bill well I didn't get I don't think so Andrea I think I think we we just treat it as a as a an additional fee oh well it it's not a fee in the same sense that um a fee for a permit is it's or something yeah yeah so it is a better no I I don't believe this would be considered a betterman I think it would be just considered a fee I mean it's not you're right it's not the same as a permit fee but it's a it's a fee for trash service right and then we would to be able to set that up um we would then need to have a conversation about um setting up a revolving account maybe in the next year so that that money goes directly into the account and then what do we do about those who do not pay their fee they don't get their trash picked up lands up in my lawn yes we're still committed for a certain amount of money to pay off the the contract where does the money to pay off the rest of the contract pay come right so those unpaid be treated kind of like unpaid taxes which means they'd still be like a receivable that the town would hold um and then we'd have to you know the we we'd have to contemplate the way to collect those unpaid fees generally speaking um we would likely roll those into a tax bill so they would be on somebody's subsequent tax bill if they didn't pay them what if they refuse the service though you're asking them to pay for something they don't how does that work sure that's that's a conversation we have to have with Shaw is about if somebody opts out of the service then our basic kind of uh the the basic drop because they're going to be having to serve less households so like I said when we first started there's so let me get this straight there there's it's going to be no matter what happens somebody's going to be upset about okay so now we're looking at the contract for the $900,000 right or whatever it now we're saying we're adding another $73 no no taking that taking it out taking it out so that line would be okay all right it would not be in the budget or it would be in it would be in the budget to the back end yeah with this elaborate system on um trash would it indicate that we would need another employee not us for billing purposes no collection posting whatever the whole nine yards of it no we pay it on a monthly basis anyway now I believe right Eric yeah but I think what Andrea is talking about is is we're setting up a whole another fee collection process with residents to have to pay for their trash fee okay you I would anticipate that the that the treasurer's office could with their current capacity handle that um it likely wouldn't involve additional um a significant number of additional trips because I think people would pay at the same time they're paying their other their other fees but that you know that that's a good question Andrew a good something to think about current Staffing handle doing a whole another fee process excuse me um is it can it just be taken away from the citizens I remember upwards of a decade ago um there was a this a great hubbub as far as trash changing in some way or another and um the floor was not very happy with that and it was nothing like what you're talking about now so if if the question is can we can we just not have trash uh that seems to me that long before I arrived in Massachusetts Townsen had had a trash pickup that was part and parcel of the citizens right as far as the government was concerned the local government here uh and I got that is definitely welded into my head as I said upwards of a decade ago when there was a little discussion about trash uh and the way it was going to work and the floor was very very uptight about the whole thing I don't remember the exact incident because a long time ago I'm just looking at the citizenry saying you just can't you know take it away especially saying that 1300 or we're going to be let you know in the 100 or50 of the total citizen is going to show up at the town meeting and the most vocal ones are going to be there if we get that on a two and a half override it it we did twice we did two overrides for trash pickup and whenever the question of getting rid of it and turning it up to each man to get his own um they bring up these the the two um uh overrides for trash pickup however they were General override so the money was not earmarked to go to trash pickup it just became to increase our um General funding you know our you know yeah yeah wasn't override it was a general override that just went into the general fund and it with trash but it wasn't promised to trash no so I to answer your question Sam the answer is I have no doubt that there' be a lot of people who be very upset at this we've talked to Town Council the imposition of a trash fee is not something that requires town meeting vote it is something the board of Selectmen can do by their by themselves that's going to really burn some I know gas really yeah no I'm not saying that this forward vote I mean that's that's where we sit yeah you know um I I also want to say that it you know with with cuts um it there are services at town that the town hall provides that the the the Departments really don't have a lot to cut from and oh I I get it I know my concern is that you know even roads and all of that kind of stuff we can't address those and and we we constantly hear about the roads we constantly hear we have a we have an issue here in Townson where we have no income other than our two and a half% a little bit the state gives us we what did we get from was it chapter 90 we get pretty much nothing from that you and uh we don't have a lot of business in town so we have no income we we're basically retired okay yeah we that or retail re real estate that yes yes but I mean we really just make a two and a half% income probably over last year's budget if we even do that um the IR thing is that people think that that they can't afford these because of the inflation but fail to realize that all our our uh all the other people are also suffering from the inflation so they have to raise their contracts Etc in order to cover their cost it's it's a inflation is a vicious vicious [Music] thing I I think no matter what we're probably going to have to go for another whether it fails or passes I don't know it depends on how much it is if it's if it doesn't change a lot it's my opinion is it won't it won't pass so then where are we I think even with a override that passes because it'll be so low we're still going to have to cut and I think I think we need to look at that seriously and hope we don't have to implement it mhm yeah the the one thing is that it it would be better to go with an override than to have ashb and peil okay in override and then we're stuck with it anyway because we I I I get you there I get you there too that's what I'm most concerned about Andrea yeah but we have to make it it's it's attrative is the wrong word but we have to make it attractive to the town so that they'll accept that we have to be able to explain it too yeah we really do um out of what do we got 7,000 people in town that voters voters something like that voted for the fate of our town so people just don't we've got to get it out to the people to understand I mean whether we send a mail we send mailers out other things what if we just sent that out to every voter in town and said this is serious this is what we got come and vote come and vote you know I mean uh 1300 people that decide for a town of of 7,000 voters I'm just estimating is that's sad yeah it's 4,000 something I forget what the is it is it 4,000 I I've read similar seven so I'm way off I'm sorry on the well it depends on on the last is said registered voters 7,000 onal toal total yeah so yeah that's what I read um that's what I read on the results the results form 7,000 I thought right around 7,000 went fotus but people are so misinformed until they feel unjust you know yeah somewhere in that range so I I don't know I but but I I honestly think that we yeah we're gonna have to look at to C look at it one of the things we've been we've been pushing every every budget we've done in the last four years is just this year get through this year we need to have this look of if we do this we won't be coming back another can it do it one and done that we make sure we plan we add in the the additional oper year monies because they're not all all in right the COA and the and the two two other positions aren't fully funded this year so the oper is still those are mistakes we've made we have to come back that those those positions are going to need to be whole and paid by the recurring Revenue correct taxes correct so we need to we need to take a look at that um my personal concern is what the future may hold the M the um municip municipalities empowerment act has some things in there don't know if we're planning to implement them kind of like if we are it's going to feel like we're nickel and diamond right it's kind of like so I think we need the bigger picture of if if these if if we do the full budget and working out we may or may not need or if we need some of those Revenue enhancements that are in um this is why we need them it's going to going to be applied and it's going to go to Pavement what makes make a full open book presentation on this is what the budget is this is what the state has given us for Powers going forward and this is what we intend to do with them and this is part of the reason why I wanted to talk to you guys we got to do this together yeah you know sure the other thing we have to remember it might be wise to show is that if we lay off Personnel we're self-insured for unemployment which is 22 months y now I think and and so you get you save some money but not nearly as much as you think you will because of it comes out as unemployment then um that budget's not fully funded either it's not funded at all we don't have any money in there it's not and the and and the challenge we have on that front is if we cut ours never mind a full layoff if we C hours are people going to work for jobs in other cities and towns in the local area where they can get hired fulltime you know I I I I agree with that somewhat other than all the other towns are just like us we're all struggling so who's looking for help you know I me and I don't mean that in a bad way I don't at all I never will know in July and I would never uh down anybody for doing better but I don't think that the towns are looking for right now I know they're all struggling you know when when we look at money budgeted for positions how many times have we had to increase the money in the B budget when we hired somebody because we couldn't hire at the price we had budgeted right correct y exactly yeah that we need and that was why last year in the FY 24 budget we started to put in the training into the budgets to try to for the other departments for the other additional departments so we would be a able to nurture and grow people into position and and I think that started working well that if I'm not mistaken we have several positions that I think we we did that option and it's working out really well absolutely top of my had the accountant the accountant working out fabulous you know yeah um and and it also breeds a dedication for the employees I think that's re really important that we need to do yeah um it's it it's been difficult for us to keep up with the with the the increases in other areas but there's no at least how I see it there's no um you don't get one job and stay in it for 20 years anymore it's it's it's very fluid you know you work two years here one year here I mean that's that is how it is you know true the job market so um I know when in in my position my last position you would hire somebody in in a year they'd be out with somebody else because they could get 12,000 more than what what we were paying you know so um so I guess I I wanted to kind of lay my cards on the table with you guys to let you know where we're at you know we're trying to uh I've been working um pretty diligently with the Town Administrator and looking at areas that we can cut um I'm sure that I would like to be able to then come back together after our conversation here and you guys look at your numbers and and the the select board I'll I'll task them to be able to look at what's going on there and maybe we can come to some agreement um shed some light on on the the trash contract is is where I'm seeing you know that there's some you know it's unfortunate and it's going to be a lot of um um controversy but you know we we've got to do what we need to do um I I had a conversation with Don and I'm going to lay it out here is that we because of our population we do have an aging population we have to be very careful in regards to both police and fire in regards to how those are funded because our uh uh ambulance calls ambulance calls and um uh uh the the police calls have been on an increase and if you look at statistics on on an aging population those calls are going to be going up as well on a continual basis so we need to to make sure that we're not um hurting ourselves in that respect because we have to make sure that our our Public Safety is is funded enough so it's going to be in balance with with what we have um but we also have to keep mind that our schools need to keep up to a certain standard also I agree of course keep your schools up to a certain standard yeah you're not going to get people to come you're not going to get business to come people will not look at look at it totally differently yeah well we're doing now I agree with you and I let's let's look on the other side of it look at some of the things that we're doing now that is going to be able enhance to enhance the people coming in here to spend some money correct you know on the the what's going on in the historic District to me is very exciting I've been looking forward to that for about 10 years you know um there there are um you know some some things with the current businesses that we have in town um I do have a concern there is an um an article uh that's on here that they're um looking to take an industrial piece of land out on Greenville Road and turn it into residential uh maybe we need to look at uh talk with zoning and see if we can get another area zoned for industrial um there's some agricultural um avenues that I think we can look at um we just the selectman agreed to start the agricultural committee back up maybe there's some um you know Revenue we can look in there uh to see what we can do to try to enhance businesses to come in here um but I would like to do the opposite instead of sitting in in in a dirty diaper and complain about it I'd rather be able to you know go out and do something about it and that's that's where I think our opportunity is now having said that ask a question the the um industrial land that's going to go to resident or pending going to residential on Greenville Road is that to comply with the that mandate from the state because of the MBTA that has nothing to do with the MBTA but what okay all right because we had to submit a plan because we we are in touch with um Shirley and they said that we had to submit the plan however it probably won't go into effect but you know you know if they can answer that yeah not something you should take confidence MBTA communities has come up S times so there there will be a handout or a flyer um at town meeting that land juice has worked up there's been um three sections of town that have been identified for a possible NBTA area and uh you're absolutely correct that we just have to plan for it we have to have a plan for it on the books we don't have to develop it so you're absolutely State mandates it we do and you know that's not an unheard of thing yeah yeah is it Milton or or is one of the towns that just oted it down they was there one or two there was going second one coming but what happened was the state pulled back that it had been allocated so that's a pie babies babies babies a tradeoff of of those pieces and and and we are uh we Townsen have been very active in the grant department we've pulled in a lot millions of dollars in the last two years um thanks to some very um Adept employees and and elected officials to be able to get these these grants to pay for you know to to get drw I'll I'll say the rail trail is number one number two is what's happening in the historic district there's some um sidewalk work that's going to be done that we had uh with the rail trail uh but that's enhancements for Town and our infrastructure there's a bridge that that um you know we're we're needing to to get replaced on Greenville Road that that bridge is going to be replaced these are all that's all grant money and those are all the things that we''ve been working towards we have a an infrastructure for Broadband um there's a you know if we get the grant for um uh to to look more into um strengthening our infrastructure that's going to be able to promote more businesses to come in here you know so I'm not here to sprinkle you know I'm not sprinkling sparkly stuff I'm just saying that we're on the right path you know it's this that we to get over the the um I I I'd like to be able to to say instead of saying well we can't do that it's like what do we need to do to move forward let's continue to move forward um and I I believe that and again I'm not speaking for the board but I believe that the board would agree with me that we are making great strides in what we're doing right now in town um and we need to continue that to be able to to kind of fund the things that we want to be able to do you know I agree with you wholeheartedly and moving forward but the the one thing one has to remember that when one moves forward like side walk then you have a maintenance problem that's got to be addressed somewhere along the line moving forward does entail costs maybe even if you got the project by a grant maybe not right now but certainly something that should be remembered for the future and then again I think that's one one reason why we have to work very diligently to get a Five-Year Plan y look at all about gifts I didn't want to go there no no no no but it's you know it's you're that's we would be in in a very difficult situation if we didn't have what we had upgraded fire department a brand new library but we have to years down the road we have to take care of them if you look at that we're applying for now there's a contingency that they're adding to it for maintenance for sustainability that's nice that's perfect now they are so anything that we've had in the past is just like okay we got a build exactly I agree with you Andre that respect so um you know the the planning I think is getting much better in town at least in three years um well previous to that because I've been working with the housing authority and planning and we we are looking more towards planning something and then following through with that planning I think we're getting much better at that um but um we need all hands on deck Andrea that's all I'm trying to say oh I agree yeah so that's all I wanted to talk with you guys about if you had any other questions for me on any of the articles that we have so really there's nothing more that we can do until after town meeting um am I correct well Eric yes no are you talking about what more we can do yeah um before town meeting yeah so I mean we're we're going to try and and look at the the you know the the goal in asking departments to make this to to show what a 10% cut would look like was to see whether or not some of those cuts were realistic I think that a lot of them are unrealist are going to be unrealistic they're gonna involve losing staff and and or or losing services that are unacceptable but they're may be some things that we can do then with those proposals that that are realistic um so we can we can try to put that plan in the wings and say you know if if there's no override then we're going to have to go to plan B which involves having a discussion about the trash and having a discussion about the cuts and seeing where that puts us in a financial situation then going back to the schools and saying this is it this is all we have and it's not going to be I have there's no way we're coming up with $1.5 million for North Middle sex between cuts and and trash it's just not going to happen but can we come up with 600,000 maybe and then we go to the schools and we say this is what we have that's where you need to come in at um and and and so that's that's I think what we need to be working on between now and January and I'm sorry January June 11th when the another override vote takes place and if the override vote happens then the budget is balanced if the override vote doesn't happen then we have to pull out planb which is what are these Cuts do we have to have a discussion that's more specific about trash um and and what do we do to and what do we tell the schools about this is the absolute most we can afford we're not going any higher um so is this information we have at town meeting these proposed Cuts will be if we don't pass the budget is that how it's going to work or I don't think that's something we bring up a town meeting we can't okay okay the Town Meeting budget is the budget assuming an override yeah yeah all right yeah okay I don't want the town meeting to vote on a budget with cuts that that if override passes we wouldn't need um and I don't want them to think that these cuts are something that oh you should can just make these Cuts I think the the every every Department was asked to come in with a lean budget so I don't I I think the cuts are going to be painful to departments and to services and um we have to know what they're going to be if we have to do that yeah we we have to know but I think the Wii that has to know is the the board of selectman and the fincom as we get to the to the override vote to know what our next step will be afterwards what do our plan be um um because expenses were as that put they were level funded year-over-year there were certain contracts and other requirements um and assessments that that came in that had to go up because of formulas that are applied on on the department so as as best we could now you're talking where the increases are are is the labor and if you according to the contract we have you can't cut Union this are the the step in the in the COA you over year the only thing you can do is cut hours now if you cut hours you're cutting services where are you going to cut them correct and and where where are they you know how how how do we I guess in the end we're gonna need to know that that's why and we'll have a better idea of where the legislature is going too with what they're funding for for their budgets as well and you would said something about Transportation possibly they're they're looking to add more money well it came out of the house it needs to go into the Senate but coming out of the house they did add more funding to transportation for schools they did add more money for um funding for per pupil um there there are some increases in um the ugga the undefined there's money there that is increasing on what we've got in the past it just depends on what goes through the house and how it gets changed you know so um part of the conference that I went to on Saturday was you know the the rural towns going do you think this is going to go through and they're all like I don't know this is what it is um but I do say that we do have a strong voice um with our representative and our Senator and uh the representative and Senators out in uh the the rural communities out in western Mass um they're they're hearing us loud and clear that you know we're we're struggling out here and we need to have you know more funding come out here as opposed to you know uh what's what's on the other side of the 49 I belt mhm so any questions on on any of the um the articles that I can answer for you guys on the and Eric if you have anything else that I forgot no I think you I think you touched on it all um I guess maybe a question um look at article 10 for um 30 35,000 and on the special yeah um 35,000 from ambulance receipt is this in addition to the 700,000 that are listed in thetic is that it's article 10 in the special so the small the small that's yeah just so so uh don that's that 35,000 is a current fiscal year transfer so that's to go in to help fund the um we bought the uh the the uh the heavy rescue vehicle with arpa funds this $335,000 is gonna is going to help the uh to equip that heavy vehic heavy rescue vehicle it does not impact the $700,000 that's coming out for next fisal year that's not the jaws of L yeah I think there was a new set of Jaws I believe they got a new set of jaws of life put in the new truck battery operator but I read an article that that was donated by somebody else I have an article that says donated so so this this article it says it's taking it from ambulance receipts amb yeah it's within their department and it's to this year um it's not just that it's other equipment because they bought the truck and there's no emergenc yeah there's no Emergency Equipment in there and they're putting Emergency Equipment in that because they came to cap that was Capital they came to yeah yeah they came to Capital and they were rejected um they oh I don't know I don't remember that let me rephrase that they came to Capital the capital plan the capital planning committee said we think that might be a good aidea and put it forward and the board of Selectmen said no the fire department's got a lot of capital expenses we need to fund other departments you need to find another place to fund it for I thought they were going to do ambulance funds and C Capital but I that's what I thought they're gonna do it with ambulance funds and and um and uh existing General [Music] funds I don't have the paperwork Jerry on what exactly it's for but I can send it to you when so I I guess is this equipment that's already purchased in in house and sounds like some of it is yeah well we know the boat was and we know the the jaws of life the bar operated we don't know yeah but the question is what's what's the process and is when when a purchase comes in and we had a municipal budget and somebody wants to buy equipment and it comes in and it's going to be a bill in this year or is this saying we're going to go out and buy it wasn't budgeted for this year right so so we it wasn't budgeted there's no place in the budget for it you can't really take a line negative is there a process that that stops seven department heads yeah is there a process that stop seven department heads from going out and spending 35 ,000 each and then trying to come in and find find a place to pay for it doesn't sound right yeah now you know ambulance is is one thing but we you know where what's the process how how how was it acquired was there a purchase Rec that came in and and purchased through a purchase Rec to an account that had to be paid for did we follow proper Municipal accounting practices in order to get that equ that's and if if it wasn't followed how are we going to correct it to make sure it doesn't happen in the future and like those those are the pieces that I really have with it that you kind of throw a wrench in the budget too it could if you know if there wasn't if there was an ambulance receed if it was some if if it was a different department that that did this how I don't think it's a good thing it's I don't think it's solid Municipal how how budgeting is supposed to work and how expenses work if you're going to go out and overspend a budget usually that's a special town meeting and there's a there's a warrant article that comes in and so I guess it's the timing thing if we're going out after this and using fy2 24 funds to buy something that's one thing if it's already been bought and we're paying for them it's kind of like it's it was wasn't in the yeah I didn't know it's kind of like I don't I'm not sure it's I I'm not sure it's um to follow that so I want to make sure that you know we don't we don't get ourselves into the craft that people think hey this is look at this loophole I can go out and buy over buy right right that's gonna so what would you like me to do you want me to um it it's evaluate the process it's like anything I would do as an auditor coming in we if if we get to the FY 24 audit and the auditor picks this purchase order did we follow proper prti or are we going to get written up for DED for and it's just again it's it could throw a wrench in the budget at times at times if we if we didn't have free that amount of free cash right and why are we spending free cash I don't not funds in the treasury oh to ambulance receipts they're asking to spend am ambulance receipts to to pay for actually their money right yeah it is but but but I I understand what you're like are they approved to spend ambulance funds I guess if there if they're allowed to spend ambulance funds then is there really a need for the warrant article it doesn't sound like it if they're able to just take them and use them for anything this is asking for approval after the is it an after the fact I wanna I wanna I bought this and now I want to pay for it can you can you you know yeah it's asking for forgiveness rather than do we have a process in place that's going to prevent bad things from happening in the future so you want to evaluate the process as far proc purch corre yeah yeah the whole the whole purchase purchase to um payment you know we allocate money for new equipment every year we have Capital planning every year for and and allocate where the money is coming from whether it's ambulance receipts General general fund or operating you just need to need to have you know make make sure we don't find find a hole in the process um my example is we had a we we set up a system it's kind of like and it's a discount well people found out if you put a positive number into the discount line you can search charge yeah it's kind of like so there's a pro there was a problem in our process we didn't limit that discounts had to be negative numbers rather than positive so we had to go in and blacks and prevent that from happening again that makes sense yeah and that's all I'm looking for here is can we can we see the sequence of events how would happen and is there a way to if there was an issue prevent it from from happening again and follow well those last few storms got us huh yeah yeah holy um I've seen bigger numbers oh yeah yeah but I just I thought we had a real nice winter yeah so so 159 isn't bad we did there was a little bit more money that was put in there this year but um when you look at the salt again again salt is doing nothing but going up yeah and right so me I don't know ice is uh up again Bruin are coming on yeah yeah they I'm kidding I'm not but the yeah it's kind of like it's pretty the sow ice looks pretty did we want to go through these ton we're meeting again Thursday we're g to meet again Thursday so are we making recommendations tonight or are we going to do that at this point we we're at 7:30 I think um we'll postpone till we'll do that on Thursday continue and that and that should go pretty pretty quick quick we've all the copies of them so we can take and if you if you would like me on Thursday know okay yeah I'm not sure when Teresa is getting back yeah I just want to make sure that I touch base with you guys thank you CH thank you kind like and it's now you're 730 yeah took you right after there you go oh you got another meeting all right and what else would be on the agenda then probably nothing do you think we won't have any information um I'll I'll talk the arrog and in the meantime I'll continue to work on the five year well it's kind of like because we have to I've got the expenses and labor out with the examples I don't have the revenue side hold into it yet it's kind of like so let's see if we can start looking five years so I'll continue to work with that's going Welling Ace job um the other the other pieces with that um we on on the annual um I'll see when um the accountant gets back in because we had talked about taking and validating the all of the revolving right right kind like and see see what the What the residents are expenses are because for the last two years we've taken the revolving accounts and upu them within a month of having done these at to meetings right so that's that's a piece um and of course now I'm going to the town the town clk's election budget It's Kind like it's it's on the special and I understand what we're doing um and then it just we we're setting up an extra step every every year every two years to make sure that there's going to be enough money in a budget line or carrying it forward so I don't know if people want to do that or or who want to understand that um or does it become a revolving account in that we set it up because the early voting for State primaries and presidential primaries is rein and the mail mailing for mail in ballot is reimbursed by the state it's kind of like if we set up an account so we can pay for it issue here and use the re the rebates and put it into a revolving account for Town Court it then becomes the election revolving account and she only needs to look at it during herd to say yes it's a it's a four-year you know it's a four election year I need to bump it up or it's fine because of the reimbursement right it it's I'm I'm just not sure yet it's kind of like this is one year um and it you know for the one year maybe it makes sense to do it but looking forward how how best to to have it as the operating part you know continually operating I agree and and again that to me can all change it's kind of like that something that's two years out um what what happens if there's nobody that runs for town park right two years right once you know Chaz can do that no it's it's just it's a future yeah it's a future consideration on the what of scenarios what are we going to do here nobody voted well and that's the thing we we're setting up we're setting it up as a warrant outo and we have to pay for elections so is that really the right way to do it is this include that probably second override I would assume Kathy did that um in the 22 the second the second override is in FY 24 because it's oh that's right that's right okay all right yeah yeah know what year yeah no no fiscal year that's right that's right we we're constantly on that on that Ben we're we're in 24 half of the year is fiscal year 24 half was 25 so this is funding the state primary and the presidential action for September and November of this year right where the rest of the budget is paying for the special Town meetings the annual town meeting and the town election in April if we have to have an extra vote and if we have to have an extrae right okay got it got it so those that that becomes the hard part because I'm not I have to check if we're getting refunded by the state is it already is it going into an account already or is it just going into general fund that correct you know so it's kind of like we have to look at where where it is so we'll say we're in much better shape knowing where things are coming in and going out than we were so so that's that's just the piece of that it's kind of like I like what we're doing trying to trying to flatten and do a a standard budget but we are always going to have every every two years we're going to have more than just the annual in in just the town and AR like so we have have to pay do that and and have the planning for and you got to include the May B in balading the absentee all of that stuff that cost us a lot of money exactly you know so right right now what we did this year is we had no mailing ballot only absentee ballot for the to elction right and that was voted only for this year I don't think it's a I don't think it's we only did it because we just don't have the money exactly yes I I get it I as as we go forward that becomes part of part of the planning if it's not there it's got to be voted again you know and passed again the early voting for Town election or for town okay sorry no like I say there's a lot of different there's moving Parts everywhere and it's kind of like and if we're setting them up I want to try to make sure it's it's repeatable year over year I feel like I'm trying to run underwater yeah that's the way it feels just [Laughter] don't all right okay so um I guess we're set there was no cor the only correspondence was the um the the fund transfer which we reviewed earlier um other than that we are that the next meetings that we have is Thursday May 2nd and then the annual Tom meeting following that so if if there is anything we have time to squeeze something in Monday May hope not we hope not done it before yeah an hour before the meeting so you know to post that so with with that I have a question yeah so we're right down to the wire now um yeah what are we going to how are we going to handle our recommendations for this Budget on on Thursday we're going to go through the warrants and hopefully um budget we um I I don't know how we're going to handle because the budg okay it's unnown it's kind of like I just like last year in the year and the year before it's there a number of things on there that I don't I I don't approve of that I I don't think are necessary but and that we could be rid of but I know for the good of the all and the way it fits together they've got to be there you know so I I I if you ask me and we were just talking in a room I'd say I don't recommend it but but for the overall good you do recommend it so I I have I have no idea how to handle my opinions to get this thing out and viewed okay okay well we uh a couple of meetings ago I had brought up the the form the format um for how we were going to review the budget and review our comments so I think a little comments over at the side yeah yeah yeah yeah and so I think we can still do that um um and I know in the past sometimes we we have made it conditional if if this happens and we support the budget if it if it doesn't happen um we had we had put in some wording that that would try to be flexible with how it was presented because we do have to print and have them in advance and have them so I think we can still put your concerns down we can we can put all of the as we talked about the summary in each of the sections whether it's by by grouping either Department grouping or whether it's just general General government and all the all the questions that we we may have um at that with with that section of the budget and en list them if their questions or you know or if we don't have any questions or issues with it then we can work recommend the budget as it it stands um but I'll make sure I work with ER and make sure I have absolute the updated up the updated one because again even my numbers that I put together from reading the the contracts um for trash aren aren't accurate because I I didn't have enough time to pull all the details and do the multiplication for all the pickups because it's it's 15 it's 140 each pickup but that's 12 pickups because it's the monthly sometimes it's summer so there's three it's going to be it's kind of like so there's a lot of MTH that goes with those numbers to come out with the with what the final number is going to be so there's still still work to be done there um did that answer it Andrea or did I just mess it up no you're always good thank you okay um at this point we 7:40 p.m I in a motion to adjourn and I apologize that the audience is here we didn't get to any input from them or anybody that had dialed in online all right I will make a motion that we adjourn at 7:40 p.m. we had a motion in a second finance committee call vote please J bazus yes Mark hussy yes Andrea wood yes maam Grant yes Don ha yes unanimous please stand adjourned