##VIDEO ID:X7F_xXpAw4Q## good evening everyone I'd like to uh call to order the meeting of the planning board on August 12th 20124 at 6:32 p.m. um well we're all here for the quum so I'm gonna proceed that way just car H is present Robert Daran present Andrew shepher present and Laura sheff present uh Lan finale is absent with notice and possibility of our alternate will be coming would you all join me in the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of aliance to the of the United States of America to the stand Nation indivisible liy and justice for all I feel likely that I want to really say those words yeah um and I want to thank all of our veterans uh both present well all of our veterans military as well as all of our emergency uh responders First Responders and just thank you again for your service and our freedoms um the meeting is being recorded and will appear on the YouTube channel um not sure but it will appear there I do not have any uh Chairman's additions or JS at this time and do you know if anything um but I think at this time I will if it's okay with you guys I will discuss the last paragraph on the agenda and when the agendas are uh posted they include an explanation of the items on the agenda and I will read that for the record tonight and it has not been read before votes may be taken at any time during the meeting the listing of topics that the chair reason anticipates will be discussed at the meeting is not intended as a as a guarantee of topics that will have been discussed not all topics listed May in fact be discussed and other topics not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by law so and there are um there is a list I've asked for it to be printed and for tonight's uh meeting and minutes I am reading them into the record so and there are 10 in Massachusetts p in Massachusetts Public bodies may enter executive session for specific reading reasons outlined in the open meeting law here are the 10 permissible reasons for entering executive session in other words if somebody wants to bring up a topic that's not on the agenda but the board feels that it should be discussed we may go into executive session for the following reasons to discuss an individual's reputation character physical condition or mental health excluding professional competence two for uh strategy sessions related to negotiations with non-union Personnel or collective bargaining three to discuss strategy regarding collective bargaining or litigation if an open meeting could harm the public body's position four to address security Personnel deployment or strategies five to investigate criminal misconduct or consider filing criminal complaints six to to discuss real property purchase exchange lease or value negotiations seven to comply with laws or Federal Grant in Aid requirements eight to interview applicants for employment or appointment by preliminary screening committee nine to meet with a mediator regarding litigation or public business involving another party intend to discuss Trade Secrets or confidential information related to energy Supply activities so those are the only reasons that the chair could ask that we go into executive session other than that I would say that you can't discuss anything that hasn't been noticed in the agenda okay has that been an issue no but I I had a question and um from a board member about addressing an issue and that wasn't on the agenda so that um gave me one question to ask that but then after I read the minutes I noticed the LA last paragraph of the agenda which refers to that so we've never read that before so I thought that now it's R into the okay so thank you for your Indulgence um we were sent the minutes of July 22nd meeting minutes um I have read them okay I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes with a second I make a motion to approve the minutes of July 20 2nd 2024 is there a second second okay so it's moved by all right moved by Carol and seconded by Andrew any discussion Corrections deletions no hearing none um all those in favor say I [Music] okay and then that's report is next minutes I'm gonna let her give the administrative report I have so maybe I'll start it right all right administrative report one applications anticipated applications a 27 scales Lane is ongoing request for certificate of completion pending the owner updated that final as built of storm water management system will be submitted next week and the board can expect to act on the certificate on the August 12th meeting oh it's 12 yeah the 12th we'll have to see what Beth says that b 22 Main Street ongoing board extended the special permit to October 7th by un's vote at the July 22nd meeting you know that see 108 pitchburg Road pending age restricted development and storm water management continue to 722 and 812 tonight and they next um D Campbell FM open space preservation development request for certificate of completion storm water management permit action required at the August 26th meeting be here uh staff waiting for storm event to evaluate storm water management system performance per the regulations will also conduct a final Municipal certificate of completion site visit and checklist to in departmental approvals there's nothing on the list three building permit applications reviewed and approved one verch Memorial one John Birch Memorial Edition and deck and then for a 98 to 100 do you want to take over now on your administrative report we're down to uh four sure thank you the has ad water management is requ 22 Main Street best plan board granted an extension of the site oh we did that I'm sorry so to five then miscellaneous yeah okay sorry miscellaneous there is a special this not really miscellaneous this a big news special town meeting Tuesday August 20th 2024 at 7 pm the warrant is on the town website and in your meeting packets and also has print copy if anybody wants to a look and we look forward to welcoming Nelson as Town's new Town Administrator to town on August 26 2024 Town Council advisory on the affordable homes act on Tuesday the governor signning into law the so-called affordable homes act the legislation includes various Provisions including many amendments to chapter 48 I.E the zoning act relevant to the administration of local housing and land use matters included in your meeting packet is an advisory that summarizes and offers the town council's perspective on ke provisions of the new law master plan um ongoing the energy committee goals have been um again they're being processed and reviewed and the towns and energy committee has hosted a meeting for this Wednesday and we expect that they will be discussing those goals amongst themselves and dating the planning board and land use coordinator um of any changes and at that time uh land use coordinator will be providing a report report feedback on the status of the master plan so the uh oh the um Hazard mitigation plan and the MVP plan and ongoing that's some big news there uh congratulations to townzen for receiving an MVP action grant for a CLI resilient drainage master plan of $154,500 so and then the next step is um the update for the 2020 MVP hmp plan is um going to be need we're going to need to get underway on that because we would like to avoid a lapse in the approved plan status and Grant eligibility when the current plan expires at the end of the Year 2025 so the board should um talk about the update and the mvpa communities mvta communities laws only compliance on goinging that will be discussed PL board M share point resource holder uh is always being updated with learning opportunities and review in the town shuttle continues to effectively run thank you be and just to reate Carol and approved that op okay so we are at 645 continuation of the public hearing for 108 pburg Road um so thank you for us Chris start start engineering on bef the applicant pH call that up um since we last spoke um I have revised the plans and they were submitted to the board I believe Mr Walsh is on the call he was the reviewing engineer based on his original letter i r i revised the pl sent them back he has sent a subsequent letter saying all the revisions were completed to his satisf Factor um in the plans we did include the dumpster location we did show a dumpster location on the site so we did um like said could you screen uh give be screen sharing abilities please okay uh hold on please thank you okay she should have uh the screen sharing capability now page page three perfect okay like I said PRI our discussion I did show location for the dumpster um concrete pad with a fence around it and the screening fence so we're not obviously having a look at that um we did also add a 5ot walkway in the front of the building there so that way people can get to it without having to know either walk through the grass the snow or on the road um and I know one of your concerns was the elevation of the walkway so what we did is we have added elevation numbers to confirm that we stay under the um ada8 2% threshold so we did that we added those on all the walkways um on all of the buildings um the we did make a note because I know one of the comments from Jessica was questioning if these trees are being planted or removed so we made the note that these trees will be removed ones along the road there um also the common mailbox for the entire development for the um it'll be outside the layout obviously and per the postmaster so that's where that would go I think we addressed the concerns I believe um with the board I don't can't think of anything else that we had to add or change um I guess Jeff is here he can speak to obviously folks have a letter issue he's here to answer our questions was there a question about um addressing all the referral comments yeah and I think we did provide comments or responses to all the questions from the different that Board of Health um Board of Health I think their only comment was that the planes have to be submitted by them to them for approval we're doing that actually tomorrow the pool oh the pool we want talk about the pool yeah you might as well so I guess Phil can speak to it a little bit more but he um he did meet Cara out there they went over it um at this point what we're going to do with the pool is just give it to one unit dedicate it to that one unit so it won't be be considered a semiu or semi-private just a private pool for that one unit he is looking into getting prices um there's a few minor things that would need to be done to bring it up to semi-private status is it semi-private or semiu semiu excuse me semiu status um it's not a heavy lift but at this point just to keep the project moving forward we're just going to dedicate it to that one unit because the one this unit right here has direct access through the walk out basement so it only makes sense to dedicate to so that's where we stand with the how did you determine where the dumpster should be located that's where it is currently so we figured it just made sense to leave it right where it was well it doesn't seem like it's going to be beneficial to all all the tenants here yeah but we figured I mean it's kind of it's not even with a fence around it I mean you know what it is putting it right here in the middle it's kind right in the middle of everything we didn't think it made sense over here the grading drops off on both sides like we said you know we added the walkway to try to keep it is isn't this an age housing Roger correct yes well would you think it' be pretty difficult for some it get all the way up there we figured having to walk would be better than them wanting to look at the dumpster right in front of the building I don't think that considering the people living there I me we can move it we really I guess the centrally located spot would be right here we just didn't think it was it would look nice we're trying to you know the Aesthetics of the site we're trying to balance both of it try do that too yes sure the um the dumpster company right now really wants it right there too it's best spot for back in back oh well I look at the driveway and the new driveway you're putting in is going to be wider than what there so I I don't think that's appropriate location for the people are going to be living there and the type of people going to be living [Music] therey uh the the ten the dumpster dumpster company yeah there might be what you suggest well I'm I mean you're going to be selling these that could be a problem with a buyer secondly you're asking for uh aged housing here and if I went down here um how am I supposed to take two trash rows up there or then every day if I'm supposed to take a bag up every day you take a mail down to the end too I mean if you go down probably fitzburgh Road those big brick buildings over there the dumpsters camping right next entrance well other board can look at that but I that's I'm not happy with that have 12 totes 16 totes each each garage have totes and that doesn't make sense I'm sorry if they went with tote route then we'd have to have you'd have to bring your totes from here out to the road totes are heavier 12 totes lined up on the side of that road we didn't think made you know we again it's the Aesthetics and the practicality of having 12 totes over there with the snow truck go by and blow them all over your your task here is to present to this board something that makes sense why you're selected here doesn't seem to be a priority other than convenience and it's already there we're looking at this and you're asking for this application for a specific profile and um where this suits the needs of the type of people they're going to be living here that's my opinion and I don't know how much this board thinks that's a priority the the mailboxes are another thing it's a five minute walk you're not carrying anything of any weight um and um I think the occupants here can tolerate that um but I wouldn't be spending a lot of money here knowing I have to take my trash all the way up there there but so you have you know I'm just thinking who's what are the priorities [Music] here what are we as a community trying to do they're asking us to allow you to have this type of as a special permit and then you show me something that doesn't match what your purpose is supposed to be um that's my comment I have nothing more to say terms of the dumpster I certainly can't uh on the younger age and someone who wouldn't be able to buy a home here um I not sure how somebody of whatever age restriction and above would feel about that but I would certainly think it would be somewhat solvable with a cart you could throw your bag in I mean it's got to be like one or two bags a week which I think would be crazy and I would think worst case if this is design they choose to go with and residents or potential buyers recognize it he won't be able to get the price that he's hoping to get so he's got some price incentive to you know try to make it attractive if it doesn't it probably wouldn't sell the only thing I could add and come out is that in no matter what age group in any of the other say condos that we do have in town um the dumpsters are not near the buildings and everybody has to walk to the dumpster um I mean I like the idea of a cart kind of thing like you would just you wouldn't carry it necessarily yourself but you would drag your whatever Phil can provide one everyone he sells so we get that property a company like D and D dumpster um actually does back into Condominiums and they do like they do our our stores they'll back in they'll leave the garage door open or give them a code they'll take the trash straight off so if these clients potential clients want to go that R if it seems like an overb to L 100 ft to a dumpster they can go that rad also we just provide general area they want to use it kind of mailbox area seems to be more centralized but I don't know that you could that would be a place that you could put dumpster I mean I like it that you're going to do the walkway through so that you know then not have to worry about yeah balance or whatever like that obviously walking down fitzburg Road didn't make sense so no I have some other buildings um and the biggest complaint with my dumpsters are there the smell of them we actually have with a larger dumpster and we do it weekly so like keeping them away from the building might be beneficial that think that's why most places don't have them near the point is there's a lot of open space here and these things can be screened with landscape they don't necessarily have to be close to a building but I think they should be at least common to all the people um and again I'm just bringing this up to people's attention but you know there's a lot of open space here where would you put it I was just the same thing this all drops down drops down and how would the truck get back there because there's a building here's a building here's a building there's that house there's this kind of pool whatever Terrace there so I'm not sure where how a truck could get anywhere else except what would you suggest as an well I would look at this area see what I could do all right look at how small that dumpster is right this does go down it drops down it does drop down and I don't think you can get a truck down there no a truck is not going down there this is going to be a l driveway no but how are they going to pick up the dumpster that's in the truck back into dump it yeah same way just this but but this kind of drops down here this is the most level part and closest to the road so that's probably why it's there and that's exactly kind of Mak sense and it's off the edge of I remember this was like a I mean you make good points but looking at the plan I'm not sure where it's the most level and most accessible for truck again I'm not here to design this for people but this is an open area this is an open area this is relatively that's not these aren't super well this is going to be flat but do you want a downstair park right in front of your front door well does have to be right in front door be here these are you know these were all like your front yards and that's again why we were this is really being used for anything over here that's what you know we don't if we go here it's right in front of this guy house was right next to the you know for a sale honestly think it works coms question on plan no I think I mean not to rehash I mean I think I'm more okay with the dumpster being there and I think if he runs into issues with it you know they'll attempt to make a change and that may be coming back before us or or not I'm not sure exactly my point is just to bring the topic up sure sure we talked about everything think of sure not necessarily opposed okay [Music] discussed um like I said that's all oh that's all I had I don't know nail boxes is there anything else that you need bring to our attention or should we can just go into that to the work session is there any discussion on lighting was that part of this that never came up at for lighting I don't see any comments on lighting and should there be I don't know there's nothing that requires many each build each house will have obiously light on the front of it each [Music] entry I'm not trying to introduce your topic at this point we're ready to move this thing on so I didn't recall if we had this [Music] W Mr Walsh would you like to make any comments uh thank you Madame chairman uh Jeff wal I'm with Graves engineering uh we reviewed the storm water management aspects of the project um my first review letter issued on July 8th had um no nothing detrimental whatsoever um the biggest thing was number three and that was clarification of the hydrology modeling that and the other comments were addressed and I um memorialized that with a follow-up review letter of August 5th um we have no issues with the storm waterer management uh aspects of this project thank you thank you comments that you like to make a motion when we move this on make a motion that we go ahead and and approve it yeah or we have to decide on the decision the verbiage of the decision which is in draft right okay we'll discuss that later okay but yes I'll entertain a motion to approve right okay so have applications and you would make three votes if you going to vote on them today you have an application for a special permit for AG development right a special for and a strong action or discuss any conditions of approval the board might want what is the board's pleasure are we moving to approve and then in the work session you know draft the conditions and draft we have to make three motions right now on the on each one I don't have any conditions off the top of my head that I see needed anything reading comments okay so how about if I take a motion on the storm water permit since we just heard from Mr Walsh sure okay um to approve the storm water permit one to wait the Tri Road I'll make a motion to approve the stor permit for one Pittsburgh okay second I'll second it and Andre will second any further discussion on the storm water permit he none just say I I do call I I I okay that one is unanimous and then for the permit for the 55 and over age restricted age restricted special special per I'll make a motion to approve the age restricted special tourament 108 for 108 PB so second I don't mind sharing Robert if you wantan I'm sorry I don't mind sharing if you want a second sharing Robert [Music] second any discussion on that all those in favor say I I I everyone's up on that and then the last one's the site review it's a site planie special site plan review special permit I'll make a motion to approve site plan review special 10 108 is there a second second Andrew seconds any further discussion we will discuss during the drafted the decision okay um all those in favor I I so moved thank you guys thank you folks so much thank you you so we have an appointment at 7:15 with you but I it's not a public hearing so we can start early right everybody likes hi Adam nice to see you good would you like to come to the table Mr Bo you can come too I like to welcome every Jo Bo from thec are you the Town Council I am okay great which one are you looking on the uh the analysis of the fal homes act oh yes all the raid do you run into that often Adam what's that uh positive commentary on legal memos no I usually get the sort of snarky [Laughter] thanks not from the board of I was gonna not from me for sure okay so um [Music] floor is yours all right good evening everybody um Joseph Bo Mones at Regional Planning Commission um before we jump into any of the projects we're working on I just want to um go uh take a stock of where we are we have three projects that we're doing together the NBTA Community act project uh the um accessory dwelling unit revision and uh the site plan review special permit revision which grew out of those other two projects so I sat down today and uh looked at the different parts and what has to move with what and uh came up with a plan for how to do all of these parts okay so the first thing is uh the uh bylaw the MBTA bylaw as you remember I created a little site plan approval within the NBTA bylaw that uh this will go in front of instead of going to your site plan review special permit we decided that we have the same problem with adus those are um those if they goes to site plan use special permit that violates the newly passed state law adus can't be by special permit they have to be by right by right you can have site plan review on by right but you can't have a special permit requirement so it's the same situation as the MBTA law we have to get rid of the special permit element of the site plan review in adus and so what I've decided to do with that is the little section of normal site plan approval that I've put into the MBTA bylaw I'm going to take out of the MBTA bylaw and make it make it its own freestanding chapter then the NBTA bylaw can refer to it and the uh and then the um the Adu bylaw can refer to it and then when we go back and do the site plan review special permit we'll just be taking out uh that that that site plan review special permit section and changing some of the references to go to this section so approving um map and the basic dialog languages first next I'm going to submit an MBTA pre-approval application once once the the board as settled on a map and a bylaw after that we go on to the Adu bylaw proc uh bylaw review process uh I'll write that up and the uh this site plan approval section will get make it first make its way into the town's bylaws through the Adu Amendment the Adu Amendment language will contain an Adu section and it'll include uh references to um uh special permits or I'm sorry to site plan reviews and those references would go to this section so sometime um before February there will be something um on for the an Adu Amendment for the uh to put on the time meeting warrant and that Adu Amendment will contain a regular site plan approval section then when we go back and do the uh uh the MBTA bylaw that will make reference to that same site plan approval section okay so the order is approval of the map uh this board approving the map and bylaw submission of the mvta uh prea then we get to work on the Adu bylaw um they we are expecting the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to come out with guidance and um regulations about Adu bylaws they already have they came out well they came out with the uh with the law and says in in in the ACT there is language saying that the um the eohc has the authority to prom promate guidance and regulations to implement this law and it's the only section of the law that they delay uh when it comes into effect and so B based on those two things we are concluded we've concluded that the state intends to issue some guidance and uh that's why they've given a a that that's why they've uh given some time before the uh before the law takes effect so that uh they have time to come out with their guidance then communities can advise their bylaws based on that guidance in time for the February due dat um just trying to update on that stuff um I understand it's going to be by right yes they put some standards on it yes no more than 50% of the size of the building up to 900 square fet right um so then um so that was an executive order that now has to go into legislation or no that was a legis that was the legislation the uh the governor submitted this bill including this Adu language to the um to the house and they passed vers their version then the Senate passed their version then they got together and passed a conference version and then the governor signed that oh so that already went through yep it was legisl knows all about it okay now my big question on that is because it's my right now uh do we still have a link with fair housing on this stuff no good no you this is one of the things that I came here to tell you tonight um I think it is Extreme the the the language in the in in the ACT uh about regulation shall not prohibit un reasonably restrict or require a special permit or other discretionary Zoning for a single accessory dwelling unit or rental thereof I think that they are going would count your um uh required affordable uh the the town's requirement that accessory dwelling units be affordable and um um qualify for the subsidized housing inventory I think they would count that as unreasonably restricting the um yes it is if you think about the MBTA law they didn't want to allow any affordability requirement and they eventually caved and allowed uh you know grudgingly allowed a 10% you're requiring a 100% affordability requirement I really don't think that's gonna fly I think that's my my advice to the town is that that section has to come out well I I'm I don't know it in depth I just know generally what's going on uh um the other uh so that sounds very good the other question would be uh that I had was did Adam how does this affect our accessory apartment by law it supersedes it okay so what we're recommending to our municipalities is if there are Provisions in their existing ordinances and bylaws that conflict with the state law you don't need to remember them because the state law control however it makes good sense at the next available opportunity whether that be a special town meeting or the next next year's annual time that you do make amendments because it's just it's creating confusion in the community because somebody who reads the Bon says it has to be attached it can't be detached or it has to be a family member or a blood relation all of that's been precluded by the state legislation okay so we recommend and we're assisting many of our communities in doing a review of their existing bylaws call them adus some still call them in-law apartments some call them whatever they go by and adjust the terminology can be consistent with the state statute and remove any restrictions that would be inconsistent with the state statute but because in actuality it's already law right state law it'll be LW so as was alluded to that's the only provision of the governor's legislation that had 180 day clock before it went into effect so it doesn't go into effect until February next year correct coun what's your take on that why why did they give the my my only guess is what you alluded to which is typically when they delay the enactment of legislation it's because they want to provide the agency with whom they're providing oversight Authority or interpretation Authority the ability to over to to to create a a process and procedure or a mechanism for oversight or they want to promulgate regulations or a policy I'd be surprised to see true regulations adopted pursu into rulem procedures that takes time I also don't know why they need regulations the legislation itself is very specific it's not doesn't leave a whole lot to the imagination it says so but but there are some gaps that could use maybe some clarity through a policy document like the mpta community's 26 page policy document that the issue right so something that says we interpret unreasonably restrict to mean no affordability uh Provisions um no um you know no no restrictions relative to the proximity between detached structure and the principal structure um whatever so I suspect that we may see some policy implementation some policy guidance um I don't think we'll see regulations but that's the only reason I think why they would vatten the opportunity for communities to to sort of digest what they've now seen in the state legislation and to maybe go back to the drawing board although most communities aren't going do it be able to do it fast enough to bring it to a special time meeting so really if they wanted communities to go to their annual time meetings and fix it and they were adopting legislation the month of August they should have put like a calendar year effective date on it to allow communities to go to town meeting in the spring and fix it but they didn't do that so February is the effective date and here we are in August so it's gonna be a bit late to try and fix these things before before the spring from most communities but I was gonna say it's really not a Monumental fix if you know the the sections of our bylaws that are going to no longer apply we know what's going to apply and so any applicant now obviously we're going to be entitled to it I think sometimes they make something big out of something that could be simple my next question was it relates to both these the MBTA subject and the assessory use strong sector is what how does this work with affordable housing or I'm not sure I understand does this local community have anything to say with that or not or about affordable housing yeah in other words right now we just had a approval for uh aging housing and then the town has other and there are other programs and stuff for affordable housing and another one for lowincome housing and another one for elderly housing okay so there are a lot of programs out there available to a lot of developers so is there any language here regarding affordable or any of those other nomenclatures regarding accessory dwelling units all right regarding the MBTA units in the MBTA answer the second question first there is nothing in the MBTA commities act that requires affordable housing you know both of these programs the uh the Adu revisions the pro promoting the accessory dwelling units and promoting the um multif Family zoning um in uh in the MTA communities act those are both Market based Solutions those are not affordable housing programs those are housing production programs they're to increase the number of rental units available on the market we have such a shortage of of units in the state especially of rental units we could not possibly do affordable housing programs which require subsidies and scale it up enough to solve the problem we need the market and and frankly in a healthy Market the market is doing most of the work of housing everybody you still got to have aicle programs for people that the market isn't serving down at the bottom but that should be a much smaller segment than it is in our society there many more people who need to be in the subsidized housing Universe because we have such a shortage it's cost price uh uh prices to spike so neither of these are envisioned as affordable housing programs they're envisioned as Supply programs there housing Supply and as a matter of fact they originally forved affordability requirements in the MBTA law and finally agreed grudgingly to include them in there so no these Envision Market R right all right so my the point of my question was knowing there are all these programs out there how do we in terms of a zoning bylaw can we include any of those programs in this overlay District or are they exempt from it I mean when you think of the what what programs there are a multitude of subsidized Developers programs for developers yeah okay you don't really get it those through zoning you don't really get it those through zoning I'm here on these projects I'm work all three of the projects I'm working on here NBT communities act Adu and the site plan review special permit these are all zoning programs and zoning and subsidized housing over o overlap very slightly in terms of what's called inclusionary zoning basically and affordability requirement in a project but for the most part those of th the proog those housing subsidy programs They Don't Really relate to zoning let me let me add to that so there there's a distinction between what you can require through zoning and what a developer has the right or ability to do and so when we talk about MBTA zoning we're talking about zoning at a at a density structure of 15 units per devel right we're talking about family um family housing housing suitable for families and not just for single individuals these are the mandates of the the programmatic mandates that the state has put into effect through the legislation and through its secondary guidance that's what you have to adopt that's what you have to create the structure for that doesn't dictate what a developer will do we have many communities saying to us so a developer has to come in and build 15 unit per acre minimum density no you simply have to allow that by right I can come in as a developer and say I Envision a development for the site at a density of eight units per acre and I can make that work financially so to tie that into your question about affordability we're not restricting access to any of these subsidy programs if somebody wants to come in and offer 20% affordability in an NBTA Zone they can do it we're just prohibited by law from mandating 20% to my point was I wanted that everybody be on the same page with that okay the second question that comes into that this spard has been talking about including things in our zoning bylaws to address Wellness physical and mental wellness and it's an abstract thing I understand but in looking at this and envisioning what the town might like to see there um my concern is if we're going to have that kind of high density housing um and we're at the mercy of a developer of what he is planning to put there in other words all two bedrooms or whatever um that is for the developers benefit and not those of our town and in terms of Wellness I would rather see our town being able to provide mult multiple unit types and if we can control that in other words for different family profiles um have requirements that every unit has some outdoor living space available to it um and maybe a children's playground or a doggy park or whatever so we can at least create an peripheral environment before beyond the building for a quality of life there and I want to know if we can do that or not can one thing that can that can one one thing that option that will remain to the town is your um site plan approval um which will become a normal site plan approval you can't deny uh a site plan approval but uh you can condition and that does give board some back and forth with the uh with the developer in terms of pro Prov design issues provision of um of different types of infrastructure I don't see what they have a lot of strength in that kind of situation it's not like a special permit where you can turn down the guys permit but you could but there can be a condition that there will that uh you can you can put conditions on on a site plan to require things they yeah I mean you can't require that one of the that half the property be built as commercial or that give you half the properties a park or any anything unreasonable like that but in terms of design and making sure that there are you know that adequate provision of light and air and whatnot being provided we can talk to Z all right so right we have at the table right now okay is the MBTA thing and meeting those requirements all right A change in our zoning to accommodate that okay so I need to know I would like to know so if that's the case you're saying to us we can uh have those kind of things in a site plan review does that do we have to Define them in a bylaw to go with that or is it just I you know I I need got to be some some tangible stuff there that people can rely on yeah um I mean your regulation can your your uh overlay District can require uh adequate Pary you can set a and that's fact we have on here a uh an open space requirement of 65% okay uh between having you know uh some dimensional requirements and standards in bylaw and then also having that site plan review which allows you to condition things then that gives the town so that would have to be in we'd have this board would have to establish the guidelines and the objectives for that site review yes right yes and that would be have that would district and that would have to go and that would have to be appr by the state or um under their standard of you're not allow of uh has to be allowed by right can't reasonbly restrict it um I I just want to know if we have that opportunity here to a certain extent but even more so than when you pass your than when the town passes a zoning Amendment and it has to get approved by the Attorney General this is going to have to get approved by the F office and if they think it's imposing too much of a burden that it's that it's if if they get a with at all that it's being done to drive down the number of units or discourage development they're gonna They're Gonna Knock it right you not to discourage development it's but if but reasonable regulation to to provide for a adequate Provisions uh some I wouldn't you have to be careful I'm not going too far okay I'd like to Circle back and try to get back to the agenda items that you're here for okay um so you're we're going to talk to us about four things today and the first one being the draft towns and MBTA multif family overlay District through guides bylaw that's right I have brought copies of the last bylaw you had a previous one from June okay good are copies for everybody on theable oh there are copies already no there's copies of town councils okay com coms so you can go over yours and then Adam okay you'll chime in please you get this no this is all I need a copy say 22 okay that's where what what am I looking at this so Town Council reviewed the bylaw a few weeks ago I thought I sent it to you maybe I didn't a some yeah I think I have and you have one right there I see it it's he has it right here this one this one is this one is his can I this one here I make a cop because you just gave it to him okay sorry just something to make take my notes about your notes right um starting out so we got your Draft before and then Town Council gave input to your draft so I think we should go by any changes or the comments that the Adam made if you don't mind okay do we have an updated draft is the draft you just circulated something that is newer June there are there is only slight changes and it's not responsive to to uh these comments so we can we can go over it would still be useful to use uh that document yes I still need do inut on that it's a relatively minor can you point out um the two minor changes that you said are different from what we got before Town ccil got it um moment oh uh they were based on uh the comments uh when I was here at the last meeting I looked into it and confirmed for example that it does need to be the Boston um um affordable uh income standards uh remember that got conversation do you want to use the fitzburg Lemer or do we need to use the Greater Boston um income stand we little we're not the same right right and yes and so we have we have to use the we have to use the great aost so uh yes those those were the changes they were based on that okay and if you look at Adam's comments they're commented on they're pointed out on each page in the Box yes uh this initial one this is just purpose this this is just a purpose statement we don't actually require uh any of the things that are that or anything like the things that are in the Box oh Adam um what do you mean you don't require anything these the uh Theory three and the following examples that would be inconsistent with as of right and they're listing uh the en energy efficient standards third party certification requirement that they must be combined with commercial and other uses right we're not requiring any we shouldn't have to right right right right we don't right we don't need to yeah so so let me let me be clear about what the comment say so item purpose purpose a subsection a purpose item two says that one of the purposes of the zoning is to allow for as of right multif family housing to encourage uh say to encourage and then to support Economic Development and meet community- based environmental goals including reducing greenhouse gases and improving air quality by incorporating green principles and environment environmentally friendly best practices so and I read that as a developer it's suggesting to me that one of the purposes that's what the section is entitled of the bylaw is to require me or to encourage me to reduce Greenhouse gases improve air quality by incorporating green principles so Green buildout net zero whatever it might be well the provision of the 3A guideline specifically says you can't include requirements that multif family housing need higher Energy Efficiency standards than you're requiring other uses you have nothing else in your B that requires that of other uses so you know particularly with this is a purpose Clause I just don't see the purpose of necessarily having it in there it doesn't serve any objective identifying it as a purpose a lot of being covered in the building codes now let me answer that allowing the construction of multif family housing instead of just single family housing achieves those goals that is the thing that uh that the town is doing to achieve those goals allowing uh some of its housing to be built as multi family uh this zoning allows for as of right housing to encourage these things that's what uh the the housing being built as multif family instead of requiring it all to be large lot single family that is what is achieving these things I don't think it should be in there okay if that's now the fact that I hadn't occurred to me that it would come across that way it's not NE it's not necessary in here um it can without doing any damage so if you w comfortable without that yeah that uh again I'm just flagging things for the board this is ultimately the board's decision I just my colleague and I went through this comments as we've seen some of these things inlaws and flag the same when I read it knowing real estate and how the builders are when I read it I thought it was a point of clarification yeah uh the fact that he's respond that the uh attorney's responded that way it worries me that the NBT office might respond that way to it we don't want them to respond that way to it and it's not necessary in there so I so if if there's even a possibility that this is going to be a problem I'm comfortable with it coming up I'm okay with it coming up I'm sorry I'm okay with it coming out yeah I'm okay coming out um the next comment okay permitted uses and the comment here is it must be three or more units to qualify the MBTA communities act requires town to allow multif family housing it does not say that's the only thing that you can allow by lightting zone so we are this is allowing more than just one one thing by writing this own it's allowing multi family housing it's allowing two family housing and it's allowing single family housing right which is what we'd like okay uh yeah what arle was that that was per delay project po conditions that make it infusible or impractical right yes uh and this wasn't saying that these necessar caution yes yeah um like yeah these are pretty the these are uh there's nothing extreme or outstanding about these development standards I wouldn't want to I would want you to suggest amendments that would bring them to something extrem they the M office would like that um see next comment oh dimensional standards yes so couns the way that that this is this is set up where uh it allows multi family and it allow single and two family one set of dimensional standards for a multif family another set of dimensional standards for single and two family uh these don't qualify towards the unit count yeah that's the same comment as as it was made about so that's fine do it I'm just telling you that they don't uh towards the unit count resoning yeah but since this is only a zoning project and it's not a housing production requirement uh the only unit count we need to worry about is is um uh is what we zone for and because the developer has the option to ignore all of the signal and two family option and go with the multif family and he can do that by right then we've met their requirements even though we're giving them a second ramp I think that's all right okay the Workforce Development units this is just a isue I think I think it's you have Workforce housing and you have Workforce unit so I think you just need to tweak on your definitions yeah Workforce unit should be called the workforce dwelling unit this is a yeah what I dwelling in C in my definition C15 y That's [Music] fine still on this topic you're under a mandatory we're on mandatory provision of Workforce mandatory Provisions right one of the things that we've encountered here is when they refer to the area medium income it goes to based on a countywide thing which and if we look at what's really happened here recently there was an aging housing program that was approved built but the medium income is based on a higher proportion of our County population and consequently the developer has prices on these units that are far exceed what our local communities would be yes so that's not helping our town and our town people are the people that we want to keep in town um so I had originally put the fittsburgh lemster area um for the uh income limits for the housing and somebody point out yeah we have to use great so that that confuses me because how can they dictate what you have to use for an affordability requirement that they don't mandate and they would rather you not include in the program at all right so that that the affordability requirement as you pointed out earlier was never a part of mbta's no it became a part because communities demanded it right so they've now said okay but they've maxed it out of 10% unless you can provide a rationale for exceeding the 10% 40R otherwise but now they're telling you if you're going to incorporate affordability component at to 10% they're now dictating what metropolit statistical area you have to utilize as the basis for that affordability it's uh it's based on the regulations for the subsidized housing inventory in order for town lot uh towns and's units to meet the uh sub go on the subsidized housing inventory they need to uh be affordable based on the uh Boston Cambridge quiny yeah but it's true it is true it's true section8 is the same ways is in Middle sex County right C oh you're in Middle sex you're right that is that is your the very units I just referred to are like 1100 square F feet y they're being listed higher than a whole single family home with a half an acre lot or acre lot not really anymore H $500,000 and this is supposed to be for age housing does it come with a bunch of support services and stuff though it or is it just AG restricted well we approved an age program yeah okay right I gave him a special permit in the release oh under your special AE programs that you get Grant release he got zoning relief for that he built these units right and then they're small right very low square footage and you take that and put it on the market for 495,000 when 80% of the buildings the homes in town don't even command that kind of fair market value yeah that's oh that's not true yeah that's you family homes are well maybe not 85 but definitely at least 60% but your point is very well is is made perfectly well even if we say that the medium single family freestanding home that these things cost as much as a free standing as a 1800 square foot free family home that would still make your point no more like 1,200 or 1300 square feet for four something now easy timble Park so many going over 500 so so I found I found the provision and the guidelines that I was look so in the in the in the definition of affordable unit in the guidelines it says aable units may be but are not required to be eligible for inclusion on the subsidized house inventory so I think the idea is and I think this may be the answer you're getting from the ohlc you may not be obligated necessarily to tie the affordability component to the Boston quiny Metropolitan statistical area but if you choose not to then those units are not going to qualify for inclusion subsidized housing correct so you can choose you can dictate your own affordability requirements that's your that's but they're not going to count so why would you add that why would you do you wouldn't add it right you're restricting somebody when you do that and if it's not going to count why you g to do that right right um I mean you're in you're inhibiting the developer which is bad enough now anyway you know as far as just because the cost of everything has gone up so what's the pleas pleasure of the board what do you what's the conclusion from all of this well I think we've made a lot of progress and I think I I mean about what we do with the affordable section um do we just leave it h there and referring to the Boston Quincy uh metro area oh okay I thought this I thought you're going in the direction of not including no I mean that's what it is it may never happen right we're stuck we're stuck with that if if because we have to put the affordable into to this now because of the new because the MBTA thing did it we have you don't need to you don't right you're not required to put an affordability element in at all eliminate it they've allowed it they've allowed it they originally didn't even want one and they're grudgingly allowing communities to have one I was proposing one I I'm tell all of my exuse me I will tell you that in during the public comment period there were people that wanted to have affordability in there if you're going to accommodate people who would like to approve the bylaw with the affordability in it it has to be the Boston it has to be middle sex County yes okay if you want it to count because the people who want to want it in there want it to count towards our affordable housing count yep so whether and as you've been saying all along this is just a bylaw doesn't mean anybody's going to ever do it if if we're going to just comply with what they need we have to have that in there if we if we want the PE if we want to appease the people that want the affordable in there it has to be affordable so that it can count therefore it has to be the middle sex County income level for affordable right I have a big problem I mean we're mandated to produce so many units to no to zone for so many units right no no not talking about we have other statutes that has to show that we have so many affordable units in our town okay so now that's all linked so the word affordable is a legal definition tied to a standard in a more dense area with higher market value yeah it does not need affordable in terms of a real person and not none of them do so not today I don't know what to do with this but it's a real problem here yes yes it is you Ashby too um I don't you don't Okay C in Ash I had my way Townson and nby would petition the state legislation be moved into wer County rant programs there's all kinds of programs we counting them as part of middle sex really working against them that's a good idea we're being penalized than and I really would like to tie in here Chaz I you're waiting to see um for somebody that's been working on the affordability aspect of everything for 15 years now um I think it's more of a hindrance than anything else I don't think it needs to belong in here um this has nothing to do with increasing affordable housing the affordable housing in towns and is pretty much market rate for the rest of the the state anyway yeah anything that's been built that is considered affordable right now is market rate so for our area for our area yes so it's but the the premise behind my and this is just my opinion the premise behind the MBTA uh is really to write a bylaw to be able to to work within their guideline affordability was just thrown in I don't even think it needs to be put in here that's just my how do you think that will I'm I'm good with the twoo but how do you think that's going to apply with some the other vocal people but an affordable clause in it for for what for for the account on on the um inventory yeah I know slowly dropping we we've had when I first started this we had we had what we had 7% 15 years ago 14 years ago and now we're at two point something wow you know so we're never going to meet a 10% in this town every time that we've we have tried to um increase the affordable anything in town has been shot down at town meeting so you know I I I I just don't think that you should mudy the waters with okay pleas the board yeah I agree take sure I'm good there is there is one more point I'd like to make um for you to consider uh in the conversations working on the MBTA uh project in lster phix project in lemster and there they very much wanted add affordability element and their reasoning was they foresaw the likelihood of these units being very appealing to people coming from our East with higher incomes than they have in this area and that these units would sell for quite a bit more than the units in town and uh they wouldn't be available to the uh they wouldn't actually be available to most people living here living in the community and so the affordability element it isn't to provide low income housing for people of modest means it's to make sure that some of the units that were being constructed are being sold at prices that are normal for the ordinary uh residents of this area now uh that might still be that that could might still apply here but lemonster is in Worcester County and so they're able to use the those numbers it people coming from the East right but you also have their income's going to be too high correct you also have a Housing Authority that has a voucher program that has they and money uh office to be able to manage something like that we don't we don't have any any management or support So for for you know and this is coming from somebody who wrote the the affordable housing and the the uh accessory dwelling apartment bylaw last time it was around the if you are going to have um some sort of bylaw for an affordable housing you should be separate it shouldn't be put in the npta that's just my opinion I'm good we're all good take I don't think Z's the best way to provide affordable housing anyway all right um so let's keep going uh all right okay the site plan review uh okay those were the end of uh Council comments do you want to add anything else okay um the last sections the site plan review as I said I am gonna take with with yog what I'd like to do is take this section and not have it be this J not have it be item J in this in the NBTA ordinance have it be outside of the MBTA ordinance floating somewhere in your regular Zone zoning and the NBTA um bylaw and the new accessory dwelling unit bylaw will both refer to it right and then when we're doing the uh site plan review special permit project we will basically be taking out the site plan review special permit section and changing where everything all through the rest of the zoning points some of it will be pointing to our new site plan approval section and some of it will be pointing toward to your special permit section I think that's a that's my plan that's a great idea I like that all right so um okay we've gone through the counselor's comments um I want to make sure I uh get any other uh is there any other feedback I need to get on this bylaw from from the board think it's a lot you've got our opinion on a lot of these things already um so I think we want to pursue it that way um has the board defined a location with with certainty for the actual overlay District close right we are well there some there were some comments about that that again I didn't read read everything in depth here but some of the things I did read were coming about sidewalks and other stuff um so again this was a cursory look at stuff um and what but that would be S plan review right if we do it this way you would yeah you would your cine review would still be a place but there was something in this that I read that was kind of requiring those kinds of things and and the way I read it it was kind of ow implying that the town had to provide that and some of the comments on where I read here about where we want to go were negative because it was inconvenient to the central density of town and the the last time we were talking we were talking about district one and District three District One Way Out by the edge of town on 13 District three is closer to the center of town right and we discussed the advantages of uh District three being that a there were other sizable um uh residential developments in the general area and so it could potentially create a area of uh where they're where they're concentrated um it would be easier to provide bus service you know things like that it's also closer to the town center and there potentially be more supportive businesses in the Town Center on closer look while there are sizable multi failure developments in that area they're not really they're not directly adjacent they're not very nearby it it's not like it would be creating one um one concentrated area plus The Pedestrian environment along that road between these uh developments is it very friendly that's I think what we might be think what I might referred to as the town heing provide uh that type of connection they i i i the you know the District 3 it's a little it's closer to to the town center but it's not actually close enough to the town center to provide a real lot of additional benefit to it it's closer to other fairly dense residential developments but again not close enough to it to really take full advantage of that um I think there there there are elements that uh make that um District three has over district one but you really really really have to prioritize those uh in order to take the C pluses B is that it offers on those categories and say these are the things that we're going to make our decision I like to discuss this as a group here it seems like we have to present to the town one specific location sh um they don't have any other options than what we recommend um and so I think that would be problematic because they're going to say why didn't you do this or why didn't you look at this space and why can't we do it over there they're gonna do that no matter what yeah they're gonna do that no matter what I know but I don't want to money the water yes sir what you and I think what we what we'd have to do then is talk about how we've gone through a process and we did look at all of those at a lot of different locations and then eliminated them for reasons right yes so I agree that's what we're gonna have to do okay so I'm gonna go around the table I'm pulling everybody in now yes Andrew sure what are your preference uh my preference is still District three uh do we want to talk about our preference or just quick quick okay well is whichever the one was closest to the lunberg water supply oh I know you don't have a vote but I'd like to hear I don't have a vote but I have a question first before I answer this a I don't understand what you mean by Lunenburg but is water going is Town water going to these these places well that's what we're water department has come back no no no no the water department has come back and the plan is that they're going to go to lunenberg right now they're past Amory road which is closer to the district three okay so that it will hit District three before it hits district one but the plan I believe from the water department is that they're going to be and they will end up working with lunenberg and charging lunenberg but that's plan well if you've been to lunberg they're putting all new water lines right in now which they didn't anate so so the one that's further down closer to the Lunenburg line is one that's Zone one so that's that's where I think so in that regard one of the concerns I have is this mandate came out of nowhere meaning the government can come in at any time and up the entity and say well you need to provide this in other words just the way we're forced to provide this bylaw right now they can easily yes come back and say you need sidewalks you need this um comes out of your money and the Commonwealth not going to help right exactly and that's today this is what's in front of us to make a decision on which district we're going to put in with because they're going to do the same thing no matter what we pick okay but because we have to pass this bylaw we have to have a district with it we're making a decision on the district okay no matter what we decide somebody's not gonna like it let's go you already said okay and is what I think GNA ask me oh yeah which one you know I asked I let everybody else do it quick and then you so i' I've been battering this around I'm trying to be nonbiased because both of them are close to me personally um so the way I look at the lunenberg site one two my personal attitude is keep the area land area as minimum as possible I like the idea of separating so we could keep the commercial section and maybe that other area could also be abuse if we everever do tiny home kind of a thing okay so but I look at that property that area it's the prime piece of property in town what happens if something goes on and we need commercial here because we can't get the Townsen or we can't get the lemon Stu which one are you talking about district one okay so what's what's wrong with that and I don't know since when has it been prime it would have been used already if it was Prime we never know hly no I I no right now this community has been pretty much a residential agricultural community right that doesn't mean that's the way it's going to be 20 years from now all right so I'm also concerned you know that Society changes do you have a higher level synopsis between the two districts yeah like which one pick one just pick one one it has to be the smallest okay which one's the smallest and if it's going to be district one I would go with the commercial part and the other part personally I would prefer District 3 like you but that's a personal voice and I don't think the town should be coughing up its best piece of real estate for this the town doesn't Town doesn't own I mean it's terms of zoning in other words in terms of zoning I know the town doesn't own it okay I can't do where else are we going to get commercial i' like to make one one point about the commercial development uh because this is something at this location because this is something that's been very much on my mind that we've thought about a lot about commercial needs that's why we created the L for example the property hasn't been developed for commercial there hasn't yet been the demand for commercial we're hoping there will be we're hoping it'll come upout 13th um but this isn't 1960 this is the 2020s mixed use is the name of the game in these states having some residential within walking distance of your developing commercial site that could be an asset for helping to promote its development Revenue source for the town as well that's where I started that's where I started at the East end of town just just just sitting out there as developable commercial land hasn't that this property hasn't exact hasn't attracted the developers with some residents uh uh nearby within walking distance a sizable number of of units maybe that becomes more attractive uh commercial development person maybe I do maybe uh and and remember we're we're talking about counselor we don't need whole lot in order to meet the unit number so uh we only need a portion of it so we do options for how to of it toal top and bottom and then we thought of left and right left and right road so we're Mak sure that they all have some connection and they allet the oh well yeah C certainly this giant multiac we've already made our decision it's three yeah okay it's three you guys decided yep why did you guys go me too there enough I'm for three all right I do think it's worth because it's I outside I do think it's worth doing something with I don't know if that it'll ever be in my lifetime anyway I don't I wouldn't count on that so we're going to have to have some um more work to do back at the office now uh if if you go with three we had developed an option that was that that's actually corre properly sized for uh to get the number of units you need at the 15 unit per acre for district one District 3 was vastly oversized the way it was before even as it's shown on how many acres does three please pretty big okay because yeah we'll have to we'll have to go back and trim down we'll likely have to trim District three down somewhere um this information all your other uh scenarios there of one so so what was your total acreage that you were doing in District 1 12 11 point something yeah just about 12 yeah we needed like 12 okay um so why don't you just work on that work on a smaller District well just work on 12 or 11.1 or whatever yeah uh they are taking slope into account and we have don't have really good haven't gotten really good slope data on it yet so it might end up being total sized larger than the larger than district one but but developable size we might need to include some non-developable land in it just you know but yeah it would work out too being developable the same number of conserv do you think people would have um more of an objection to three because it's near um closer to like Pine Ridge I don't know I can't what's it across Emory Road or AC Cross Road or no I thought it's on the same side I thought three right near the water tower oh yeah so do you think people are going to object to that I think by the nature of the size it's kind of it's like has to be set back way so I think it'd be tougher to I'm good I think the developable um portion a lot of the developable portion end is by the road C then then it goes up towards the back very pretty steeply I don't disagree with the value that's come out of looking at district one and like thinking that I don't like the density NE necessarily there I mean I think it's worth outside of the NBTA communities us as a board maybe looking at that and coming up with a mixed use or trying to Zone that something and see something comes out of it well my perspective on it is there was a planning board and the zoning board before that decided to keep that commercial so that's the only really area in town where that's going to be allowed anymore and why up set that what I call Reserve Bank in another time in the future it could always go back to another use if we take right now they've decided for three I am we're on three so that's a unan we don't need to talk about it good good dist three yeah this is all Adam's fault no I wouldn't blame you for anything you asked the question EC might want to know what this wonderful bylaw is applying okay five column five here is is our district three three across your memory Road these first four are the four off versions of district one different shapes so 22.7 uh yeah it's currently the one we analyzed is 22.7 acres and it has a final unit capacity of 34 which is about twice as B is about twice but like I said that includes all of it which a lot of it is not usable yeah we're gonna have yeah uh we we got to get we I I I know our SL we want you know think of the minimum we need is 12 whatever and then we got deal with topography inside and all the other stuff so also I'd like to be able to put some of this Wellness stuff in these projects and having more acreage available to do that might make that happen you know what I mean um so I'm not opposed to increasing the Acres there I mean with the limit of what that has to offer um well just said you have to increase it over the 12 because there's not enough buildable land right so so you're going to be unusable land anyway in this larger so we might as well open I think we might as well approve the entire 22 acres and a thought leave it there you you need to determine what portion of the site is not developable because just saying we're going to use the 22 acres and leave it there well 22 * 15 is going to give you 34 and so even if you deter okay it's really not 22 it's only 20 it's only 18 you're still going to have 275 units when you don't need 275 we we can get back to you with more specific Geographic geological information and figure out how many uh grow Acres you need to get your fifth your 12 build very good thank you um what's next on list there for us that you need from us tonight let me see oh I was here to talk about the four projects Dela Grant initiative revision of zoning by law section 14536 accessory apartments in residential district oh yes the Abus we were we were talking about that [Music] um yeah I think we've kind of gone over uh I what I wanted to have tonight was a discussion of uh where we stand with the legislation legislation's been passed you've got the the language in there of uh what you're required to do um and we are waiting for and we expect that there's going to be at least some guidance coming out of coming from the Commonwealth and uh the due date isn't until February so um I am waiting for that guidance to make sure that um my amending my Amendment um uh we will ultimately you know conform it any way that they want it to but um what I have been working on so far the conclusions are I was I was going to conclude for Zing reasons that the um affordability requirement in the Adu bylaw needs to come out sounds like it needs to come out for some other reasons as well that was really the big policy thing policy issue to get your Val on um and then the one the one other um and I'm not sure I need an answer tonight because we going to have a lot a lot of time but one thing I suspect is going to come out in the uh in the regulations is that they might distinguish between an Adu that is entirely within the existing footprint of a single family home an Adu in an addition to this a single family home an Adu in a pre-existing outbuilding some putting an apartment above their old barn and an ad and a newly built out building I suspect they might distinguish between those in different ways and have different levels and allow different levels of review or allows regulations to apply or not to um different types of ones and I just I kind of wanted to plant the seed um that uh that that is an issue that comes up and also get some some feedback about um what you would like to see in your Adu bylaw obviously might be might be restricted some by the state we see what we can do but what are what is your vision okay so some of the things that could happen is an existing duplex do both of them have the right good question um the an accessory dwelling unit by definition is with a single family home right okay so no somebody who owns a two family would not have the right to build an ad so what about a condo Townhouse Condo only freestanding single family are free standing okay okay I wanted to be sure yep um that's one uh yeah they have to be single family and all right by definition an Adu is affiliated with the single family home they also have in this regulation in in this law that was just passed it says that in residential in residential districts or in single family residential district sing in single family residential districts you have to allow this now I live in LOL in LOL we have zoning districts that aren't single family districts we have two family districts and we have districts but within those exist we also have commercial districts and Industrial districts and sometimes we have pre-existing non-conforming uses in those districts right we'll have single family home sitting in an industrial district should the owner of that single family home be allowed to do an Adu like everybody else in town with a single family home can do you're only right you're only required by the law to uh that they are must be allowed in single family districts um I wanted to ask you it I now the way I had started writing my um my new bylaw it referred to all single family homes Al what I'm sorry all single family homes the owner of any single family home in general should is allowed to have an Adu even if he has a single even if they have a single family home that's a pre-existing non-conforming single family home IND I mean how can you how can you how can you restrict that is the the law says oh you only need to apply this to your um single family zoning districts I suggest that you apply to all of your single homeowners to what yes if they're all free standing yes wherever they are in whatever District they're in okay right I don't think we have single family home districts all we have residential yeah all of your residential districts are single family districts yeah okay that so right and you and you if if you don't have any districts that authorize two families and multifamilies you wouldn't really have any reason to specify their sign family districts you just call them me residential districts true okay okay it's uh only one Adu is permitted by wri any additional a um one per lot uh any additional adus may be covered by special permit so um as I write your Adu Amendment do you want a um a chapter that uh a second Adu by special permit sure Reed to have one yes be two units on one property the reason for the reason why I say that is if it's allowed by our septic whatever you know if it's if it's permissible by the Board of Health go back to that all the time right because there isn't enough housing and I do know people who have all their children who have moved back home oh okay and there's three families you know in one house and it's for various reasons you know whether it was divorced or one of them died or you know it's for various reasons so if the property can accommodate it via the Board of Health to give an occupancy permit I think we should have language that allows that to happen so we would keep is it going to hurt our Adu special permit for everything Beyond one the one of Bri for what it's worth I don't think you have an option what do you mean do it I don't read the legislation as given you the ability to say no to a special permit requirement for a second day to year no legislation uses the word shall oh says there shall be a special permit for more than one accessory I think I really think it's a good idea if it if it's allowed now the regul if they do indeed adopt regulations or policy it's I've known the legislature to turn shs into Maze and Maze into shs or or the not the legislature the agenes that they invest with the authority to interpret their legislation so it wouldn't shock me if they look at that and Define it differently but it does say shell yeah I I would changing my op I would let that be something that you can look at well if you have in in some instances within this this municipality there are people who have let's say an Adu in the above their garage and they also have a bar two separate right adus if you look at it that way and if if you had it by special permit you'd be able to see that and it's GNA go past and I agree with you you always go to Board of Health Board of Health is g to pass it anyways yeah and in actuality it's the most affordable way because of land and all that other stuff most affordable way to get another place to live so yeah I think that's important for the future I think that's important I think we could have helped the last 10 years too but um yeah what else um least is Hope okay I um wanted to everything else is just um for informational purposes and um The Counselor um brings it out very well so read this closely this is this is all good information um couple of points that he makes in here is uh we cannot we can no longer require that it's family no longer require blood relations okay it just has to be a unit on right um Oh there's uh parking you can only require one parking space per uh accessible unit and um actually you can't even do that if you're within a half mile of Transit you're not it says half mile of Transit it's half mile of the transit station it with like like an mvt like an mvt station they just you can still require part of the space if you know where fin bus stop yeah um and well that's probably all I think yes those that yeah just Pro providing that information and asking about those uh two things which I the counselor has now convincing me there's only one open uh policy question is what I want to talk to about the ad tonight um and what I do next is wait for uh wait wait for some guidance to come out from the state I suspect they'll answer that I suspect they'll be very clear about this about that question about the second one all right um so that was the Adu discussion yeah and next is the site plan review special permit okay yes and uh my my news on that is what I was is uh what I was telling you before we're going to create one new site plan approval section it's going to be outside of both the MBTA and the Adu law and they'll both refer to it and then eventually your whole zoning Cod will refer to it is that um the only those aren't the only two things that require site permit right no there are several many other things that uh require site planning to be special permit and this is going to be a lot of teasing out over the course of this project and going over this uh they can so I don't know if I've had this discussion with your board before I know Beth and I have had the conversation about the way that towns and chooses to qualify its site plan approval so if you read the zoning act the state law that operates as a framework for planning boards and zoning boards throughout the state to Grant relief the zoning act refers to variances the zoning which of course you don't issue as a planning board variances are issued by the zoning board the zoning act the first the special permits you issue many of those as a planning Bo the zoning act actually doesn't refer to this concept of site plan approval so back in the 70s communities began creating this process of site plan approval that was completely a creature of Municipal governance they just said we want some other way to look at projects mostly by right projects but we want an opportunity to for there to be a check for a bu ride project to come before us so we can at least look at it and say oh you should shift the entrance a little over a little bit you should replace those Arbor some Elm trees things along those lines um the the the site plan review process could challenge them the courts and here's what the court said the court said in the mid to late 1980s in that case presedential versus Board of Appeals of Westwood it was a seminal case you hear the credential standard referred to all the time when people refer to cyan review what the Supreme Judicial Court said in the credential case was it's okay for communities to create a site plan review process even though it's not referenced anywhere in the state law the zoning act as long as boards realize that it's a non discretionary process they can't use it to say yes or no they can't reject projects through a site plan review process it's just an an opportunity to look at a project and to shape the project to deal with things like landscaping and lighting and just the overall the layout of the plan conditions right condition it reasonably but in conditions that aren't so stringent that they prevent the development from occurring great so now it's clear now you have variances special permits both of which are very discretionary you can say no to a special permit if you choose whenever you choose special permits or discretionary and then you have this this outlier called s plan review that is not referenced in the state law but the courts have said for 50 years now 40 years now it's okay to use that process as long as it's non-discretionary in towns in and you're not alone in doing this you decided to complicate things and you combined site plan review with special permits and you called it a site plan special perent that wasn't me I swear a lot of community did this back in like the the90s right cre so you have a site plan process that's supposed to be non-discretionary because you've tethered it to a special permit you attempt to retain that discretion of course in your bylaw the language doesn't even suggest that you're retaining any discretion it sounds like you're if you read the language of the bylaw and you didn't read what you were calling it a site plan special permit you would think I would think as an as as an outsider this looks to me like it's typical selan review non-discretionary to be distinguished from a special permit but then you look at the title and you say yeah but you're calling it a site plan special permit so our advice and again town is not alone here Our advice in the many communities where we've been asked to come in Rec codify full bylaws or assist planning boards in tweaking their bylaws to make them more user friendly is to do away with this concept of site plan special permits if you want to make it a discretionary special permit call it a special permit just make it discretionary then you can say no if you want to just have an opportunity to look at it because it's mostly a BuyRight use and you just want to be able to shape the prod project but you don't want the discretion to deny it which in fact provides you with a bit of cover when you've got residents that don't want something and you say hey we have to allow it we're just here to shape the project then call it site plan review pick one or the other and don't combine the two so I think that's what's being suggested here which is we're going to create a self-contained section called site plan review we're going to eventually do away with your section called site plan special permit right and then we're going to go through all of your bylaw we're going to find every reference to a site plan special permit and we're going to make you choose which is it is it s plan or is it special permit and coincidentally we're doing this at the same time as you're addressing adus and MBTA zoning both of which have to be non-discretionary so we'll call those both site plan review so it's a great time to do this because you're killing like two three birds at once them okay I like that okay yes okay board okay perfect excent okay's part of mpc's review and work on this will be looking at the whole bylaw and all oh yes that's that's that's in the SC we got we got a grant a tag planed assistance grant for this particular project and it's fairly sizable and we left a fairly long um scope because this isn't changing one section this has to this is the whole bot we have to go through and and it isn't just making a technical change to conform with the law these decisions about what's going to be site plan review and what's going to the special permit is this is real sub substantive planning that those are very those are important decisions and I think it's going to be good process well we're excited Now's the Time to do it yeah yep yeah because we got the grant money to do it so were those all of my things yes those are all of your things okay I um this has been lovely uh I noticed one other El item on your agenda tonight item uh 3.6 update planning board implementation progress on town city master plan Hazard mitigation plan and Municipal vulnerability plan uh we wanted to um mrpc wanted to let you know I we know we're not involved in in these projects but uh as if as you go into your implementation phases if you were looking for uh grants for any of those would be uh applying for grants for any of those or finding out which grants to apply for to implement uh help Implement those we'd be happy to help you with that we pursue grants for you we hire to grant writers excited to give into all of these things um or if you decide any any of them need updates and you'd like some help for that we can ready for that for that as well okay I would uh welcome comment from Beth Or Chaz [Music] the will be theability you're gonna need an update yeah oh okay all right I'll make a note of that can you take and you work on those together and what about the approval of the storm water management application changes do you have that for us sorry about that you seem to be running over but that's okaying we can do okay good all right thank you Joseph you tonight IP we be in touch timing on'll do a decision have a good evening everybody you too thank you very much you just enjoy your company um what about Adam does Adam have to be here for our decision on um would you suggest Adam be here our decision on 108 no that's do that decision want thank you thank you ja ja that's what I'm asking yes I thought the board might want to you know schedule that I know you had mentioned something in an email about so so our recommendation has been your your deadline is December 31st of 25 because you're an adjacent small community that's the last of the of the categories of Deads um we're suggesting to communities that they attempt to do this in the spring because if you don't get the requisite vote you at least get another shot at it in the fall um we have some communities that are interested not many but a couple that are interested in doing it this fall number one I think that that's it's probably too much of a squeeze I don't even know if are you doing another town meeting in November yeah we haven't even done all right so you let's go the 20th so you could attempt to do it in the fall meaning October November if you December if you have a further town meeting um The Challenge there is that we recommend that you submit and you heard um what's his name Joe Joe you heard Joe reference um submitt to eohc they they will perform an interum review to determine compliance um so we suggest that we also suggest you submit it to the attorney general in advance because the AG's office will also do an interum review and both of those are required for after the fact for for ultimate approval under the under the legislation we have to have public hearing you have to have a planning board public hearing um so there's a lot to accomplish prior to town meeting um and addition to that and not that I'm saying wait on this necessarily but as you know the town of Milton has challenged the MBT anything yet um well no they're scheduled for oral argument front of the Supreme Judicial Court in October okay so they're going to be heard in October generally it's 90 to 120 days after argument for a decision they may expedite this because they know many communities are waiting but I would expect we'll have a decision sometime in the February March time frame of next year so um but by then wouldn't we want to have whatever we decide Ed before the Attorney General I think you would I mean you're already you've got it drafted already right so there's no reason they have to stop but on it but my point is I don't know that you need to rush the town meeting in November to adopt something that you could then find out you didn't need to adopt maybe that that presumes that the SJC rules against the Commonwealth but um so for the spring probably probably Mak some sense okay and given where you are that really shouldn't be problem you you can have public hearings ahead of that yeah okay good with that okay thank you very much okay in our work session we're not done guys we're just getting [Music] started location s board for the chapter 48 section 38 we just did that's what we just did right 3.1 we did meaning number three right yeah okay 3.5 3.4 and 3.5 okay oh because we did those things all right uh 3 draft decision for 108 Pittsburgh Road age restricted development okay so do you have the draft do we have the draft dra decision is not done so you can um well we gave you the Motions right was there anything that any board member felt needs to be written in as a condition other than what we already voted on and said okay too like um you know the engineer Mr Walsh is fun with whatever the storm water permit was um we made some suggestions and they complied in their new plan as far as writing the the tree thing the mail Hut thing the pool is the Board of Health so really not in our decision he's not going to get a permit for it anyway unless he you know he does their thing and um yeah well what what has Jessica said about that well she did make a comment mandatory okay I I printed them out for you yes you did and the [Music] timing was the last one building inspector yeah please thew number seven the minimum common open space in the development be 30% of that area not more than 25% of required minimum open space shall consist of wetlands they're fine the up open space shall be continuous and usable by residents of the development a permanent conservation restriction running to or enforceable by the town shall be recorded for the common open space area and shall include restrictions that the land be retain and perpetuity for conservation of passive Recreation okay so for I thought there was like a clause that they had to do it before this is like a 4 acre parcel yeah and the open space is continuous right well if we're talking about where they drive in and there's nothing behind where the septic system is y yeah I seem to remember there was and I'm not seeing do we know from the plan how much uh open there is oh they definitely need the requirement of 30% of the lot area fine so just have why don't we just write it that way in the decision okay to say that because yeah there was do you remember there was something about about the timing of the conservation restriction wasn't it like they were I don't I thought with the other Project [Music] work those take a long time remember what do you mean by timing there was something that we had in there that in the other decision [Music] about conservation restriction and the recording of that and and the timeline of the project can we as a board delegate our chair to work out we can do that I remember something what is a conservation restriction it's about the open space yeah it has to be held in conservation rest open space so it has to be like documented is that what you're saying recorded record a legal document it's a process it's a long process but oh okay and that has to be done by the applicant but it has to be held by the town um and I just seem to remember something about timing and it being a little bit difficult get it done I think so are you talking about a Campbell firm no on 94 f Road the last one that be permitted the age restricted development and I'll go back and look at the draft decision yeah do do that and and um because I know everything is fine terms of the they've met the criteria they just seem to remember okay do just do how we decided before and Su to me okay use the makes sense yeah I would use the same I don't want to make any different okay you know because it's the same type of project it's a 55 and over that we're doing I I I'd like to see the same excellent sorry I'm actually using good good I'm add in the St water okay so what's next um that's that for 108 um I would say um the next one is to appoint a planning board representative to the capital planning committee for a threeyear term um until June 30th 2027 yes yeah I heard I heard a nomination for Carol okay you sure and she has accept it vote hold the chair up I know M them by law now so I'm s unless do you want to be on you want to be on nose I think that you guys took a formal vote um there was a motion seconded and all any for the discussion I actually Robert did okay okay and um any further discussion everyone in favor say I unanimous it's unanimous and Carol accepted it's somebody G to tell me would I have to show up probably yeah I will help you with that and is that our full agenda because I always lose it I I had two copies of the agenda and I have correspondents thank god um let's see there is a special town meeting coming up on August 20th at 7 pm I I don't should I don't need to read this whole thing right no just do the bullet the bullet points on the have special time meeting no is it our special time meeting is it ours yeah no we don't know what it is it's for the budget the budget this is the 20th yeah yeah yeah yeah okay more make sure you attend put saying meeting thewhere next Tuesday Robert at 7M next Tuesday you gotta go vote notice from the town of lunenberg their planning board for a public hearing on day August 12th at 6:05 p.m I wonder if it's still going on the subject property information is three Lancaster AV the owner is Art calo calo on three Lancaster Avan lunberg material materials are available at the Town planner's Office does it say what it's about uh applicant for a special perment um by Alpha Graphics for a free standing sign okay legal notice town of towns and Conservation Commission uh will hold a public hearing on Wednesday August 14th at 7:15 p.m. on a notice of intent filed with the Conservation Commission by mass do the project is the Culvert under Route 119 Street approximately 100 ft west of the intersection with Edward Road notice of intent was filed retroactively for structural rep repairs following a headwall and embankment collapse which resulted in a blockage of the Upstream end of the culbert the work occurred in the land underwater Riverfront area and the 100 foot bordering vegetation wet land buffer parties wishing to speak in support or opposition to this application may do so at the meeting or in writing Trier copies are available to T them but this is already done it seems already make sure comment it'll be well received oppose it yeah yeah bummer the town of Bren this is from the office of the planning board regarding public hearing notice proposed zoning bylaw amended solar parking canopies brought plan board will hold a virtual public hearing Thursday August 22nd at 7:10 p.m. to consider a proposed amendment to the grotten zoning bylaw chapter 218 proposed zoning Amendment will add Provisions to allow solar parking canopies as accessory uses in all zoning districts additional copies and information available at the town clerk the town of FR again U Office of the planning board public hearing notice a proposed zoning bylaw Amendment the definition of age restricted housing gr planning board will hold a virtual public hearing on Thursday August 22nd at 7 pm 10 minutes prior to consider a proposed amendment to The Groton zoning bylaw definitions it will revise the definition of age restricted housing to require the affordable units to qualify for inclusion on the state subsidize housing inventory and to comply with the federal fair housing act don't know I mean they can they can certainly make the how it's going to be used yeah yeah um thank you Andrew and 4.2 memoranda Mand planning board from just boil uh regarding the NTA community that was just something we got right it's in the port yeah okay all right five Education and Training 5.1 State ethics commission uh free conflict of interest law training webinars Thursday September 26th um 5.2 citizens planner training collaboratives cptc and the website is there 5.3 town Mass online code searching tools training videos is that for our town site website code all bylaws you can also do multi- toown search so far I haven't been too successful our new site what happens when you're used to the old site um yeah the old site 5.4 new planning board member resource Library that's just a note right yeah okay and then our next meetings are August 26 which everybody knows I'm not going to be here and September 9th and September 23rd and anything else from anyone leaving you're GNA sign the decision for need to get on the decision okay I leave um 24th of the 2 okay I'll let you know okay yeah um we we'll try to get it done if you can before the 21st of August ready go about decision the decision for 108 right that you mean yeah okay 14 days motion to a journal absolutely second it4 pm and everybody say I I everybody's in agreement 8:54 p.m.