e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right welcome back to our um budget meeting on Friday August 2nd 2024 um we'll resume our meeting and um we'll jump right back in with Parks and Recreation um I uh asked Kathy to come up here because the uh the variances for the parks W uh Department are pretty self-explanatory and uh simple but they uh are worthy of a deeper dive um the two major changes as the 296,000 that's identified in various um Capital uh Improvement uh projects throughout the uh the different parks and wreck programs um and we'll go over those details once we cover uh the CIP but the largest increase out side of the 5700 normal increase is $3,740 uh related to sanding Ovations um and one of the steps that we've taken this year um was to actually create a separate account that tracks the sanding Ovation specific costs just to add um an extra level of transparency to break out the other community events like uh rock around the clock or yeah and all those other versus what's set aside for standing ovation so I will uh let Kathy uh talk about that u a little more so sanding Ovations just a few points before we start is now in its 16th year and this year obviously it's November 21st through the 24th and the 30th of November through December 1st just a few things um this year first of all our theme is the gallery of s and um we're already working on our t-shirts uh for that event but some points of interest uh to show you what sand Innovations has done for our Island um in 2022 we were named the top 20 best beaches in America just last year we were named um top five best beach in Florida in 2024 visit STP Clearwater we were a finalist number two in the besties award second to Sugar Sand and in 2024 most recently we are the best of best through Tampa Bay Times both for festival and for um tourist attraction our economic impact that was uh done by destination analysts in 20203 shows that we bring $9.4 million to the county for our event primarily Treasure Island and the surrounding beaches with that said sing Innovations is kind of become a entity among itself last year we've implemented um a few new programs one more um a variety and better lineup of entertainment and instead of having themed nights we incorporate a lot of different uh genres throughout the day which seems to work really well we offered free bus transportation from off-site parking sites and from our neighborhoods in Treasure Island so we have just a few changes that we've made we also increased our advertising budget because last year and again this year we're getting $775,000 from visit St be Clair waterer to promote both the area and the event so with that said we um outlin sanding Ovations for you to look at to see what the actual expenses are because it is an expensive event we do Break Even but we are always constantly looking for um sponsorships so any business that's interested in sponsoring please contact UM us and uh most of it is done off of fees basee which is parking um in Treasure Island Park which I know that's been a little bit of a contention but we bring in $45,000 over that weekend we also um our largest sale is through beverages both alcoholic and just you know water and non-alcoholic type things t-shirts and sponsorships vendors so um we're always looking to improve we know that because the events getting more expensive and we're offering more amenities to try to grow the event that we too have to come up with different ideas for Revenue so usually the event is very Revenue neutral and we hope to make that again this year so I'll answer any other questions um some other events did go up to um our boat parade we do cash prizes now so we increased um that budget to uh incorporate the cash prizes and then just some general um events Rock Around the Clock October Fest the Halloween parties they're growing and the more they grow the bigger you get the more your expenses are so it's a good thing in general but it does cost the city money so I'm here to answer any other questions all right any questions for Cass I'm looking at the line item for sand sanding Ovations and I don't see any prior history in the past years there was no budget and stuff did she commented on that and I missed it that was yeah the this is the first year that they're breaking it out so that it's just it's standing on its own you should see community events you should see a deduction in um 49 Z or 49900 so that's why because we pulled sand Innovations out because we have to show you how much the event is actually costing okay thank you I'll just direct the commission's attention to the the line just above at the actual community events line that we pulled all these expenses out of all the other community events combined are $87,000 so sanding Ovations alone is you know almost $400,000 to run but like Kathy said we usually make just a break even and have like a little bit extra at the end of it it's usually not much but it's you know it covers the expenses and it is weather contingent so we have struggled the last few years with weather last year the Sunday of the The Encore weekend we had rain all day one other change this year Encore weekend's always um it kind of has come into its own as well so now in its third or fourth year we were going 10 to 10 on Saturday and 10 to 6 on Sunday but the committee has elected to do 10 to six both days um it's just a lot on some of the committee members um and I have a very wonderful committee with a lot of business and residents um and employees so you know we thought we'd try the 10 to six and pray for good weather this year because we've had hurricane or we've had tropical storm ETA one year which threw us behind we've had rain on the main weekend Sunday which hurts desperately and then we had rain last year on Sunday of the Encore weekend supposed to be the not when you say excuse me when you say 10 to 6 what happens at 6 o'clock we go home so um last year we did The Encore so the main weekend Thursday we start and Thursday and Sunday are 10 to 6 so we close after 6:00 p.m. but Friday and Saturday are 10: to 10 okay you close but this we have security so the sand sculptures are still there and people can still walk around and look at them and the sculptures are up for 45 days after weather contingent and vandalism no any other parks and W questions actually my budget went down but we have a lot of capital projects so the operating part but the capital part went up as well as events so basically that's my budget all right any public comment for parks and wck I have a card from Robert boso hello Rob bazo 760 K I just really want to give a Kudo to Kathy and her staff for uh finally putting in a pick a ball Financial line in the budget I think that really is fantastic work on her part um and by the way I want want to make sure everybody knows that we're not anti- golf I think golf is a great sport for me my blood pressure would not handle golf at all um but we're not we're not anti-g golf at all so uh we just we think it's apples and oranges and one of my concerns is though that um if you don't approve the budget as it is my concern is that you'll try and take some of our precious money and give it to something as frustrating in AUD as golf so um I I again I want to thank you thanks to to Kathy and her staff uh um our preference would be to build out um the courts at trer Bay which is our center of excellence in terms of sports I understand the budget doesn't doesn't really support that but permanent courts is our is our number one goal and again I represent a committee of about 100 players which is a lot more than golf has by the way and so um we would like to see treer Bay build out but I don't think the budget supports that so we're more than happy to see the courts built at roselli and again we're not anti-g golf at all and I see a lot of us here are athletic and we like sports and I think that's a good place to put money again thanks to Kathy and her great staff thank you great thank you any other public comment this is hardly wor standing where can we get this the sponsorship information for I will send it to you I know don't for the government thank you any other public comments no Kathy on the um sponsorship will you put that on the website too it is I it is right for tiet purchases so like somebody wants to buy a VIP for the weekend and things like that the the website now it's www.and inovations Masters cup.com that is completely updated and it it I know our city one has a sponsorship the San Ovations one does not have the sponsorship information yet but the city does and it inter leagues off of ours y okay thank you will the fee schedule be a separate conversation all right any other public comment all right here hearing none we will move into the next one non- departmental yeah we'll Circle back to non- departmental thank you Kathy so that's uh page 67 in the budget and 29 in the line item so there uh being the non- departmental this uh kind of has the uh Citywide general fund expenses that don't uh don't necessarily U tie to one particular department or uh cover all the Departments and um it's just better to uh reflect it in one program so for fy2 as I mentioned uh Insurance increases for liability property and flood um are going up so the 68,000 is the increase for those uh is a decrease in capital related to the onetime uh expense for some it equipment this year um $30,000 increase in other costs related to the addition of a separate uh uh contingency for salary adjustments uh specifically for positions that are hard uh to recruit for um and retain um an increase and other costs uh for the general fund portion of U the Public Works canopies project um it's allocated to the three utility funds as well um there's a uh component uh project with the uh Public Works facility um and I believe that it's the intention that uh there'll be some self-performing of some of that work again just like the debt um issuance uh will be allocated out to those respective Public Works funds I've also done the same uh to split that cost out for those canopies as well so that's the portion of the gener that's the general fund portion tied to Public Works uh for that portion of the canopies um increase in other costs related to the uh first anticipated interest only debt payment uh for the public works facility um and then a reduction of other costs related to the one-time nature of the transfer to the a storm water fund last year we had a uh cash float to the storm water fund or uh yes to the storm water fund that uh is going away for fy2 and then the rest of 346 or just normal increases and decreases within the non- departmental program um if the commission has any questions about any of those other changes I'd be happy to uh answer them or get U my hrit people up here to answer any of those uh specific questions can you elaborate elaborate on the Public Works canopy project or will that be in the CIP that will be in the CIP but there's a um and where is that in is that in the line item somewhere so yes that would be in uh that the transfer that to be line uh 91303 or 91302 so it's uh in the middle of page 33 that's that 369,486 th000 canopy project so the allocation of Public Works overall this is the amount that is driven by generally funded Public Works programs the balance of the funding was assigned to the three utility funds based on um FTE so it's the assignment of FTE for those funds is how I backed into this cost allocation since that'll be a dedicated facility for Public Works okay the the project itself we will we can cover in the CIP this is just the the allocation the general fund portion for that project okay any other questions no all right any public comment on non departmental right hearing none we'll move on to parking parking so it's page 71 parking and 36 so they're not too many changes to the parking program the only uh real change is um a reduction in capital expenses du to the uh purchase of the um the new hybrid Rav 4 that I think we've already taken delivery of and we're just working on upfitting so that was a kudos to the commission for being willing to spend a little bit extra because we already have the car um on site um so that's since we're not replacing another vehicle next year that's being cut out U for the fy2 budget what page is it in in the spiral and the spiral it is Page 71 the three ring binder is 36 37 it should be right after non- departmental and then right after non- departmental was yeah it'll be non- departmental man 71 yeah yeah a couple of weeks ago Mike you uh we talked about the parking and you kind of laughed about uh you know do we uh diminishing returns and do we need and everything else and uh so basically that got me a little motivated to check with some of our neighboring cities to see you know what what's being done uh probably the one that's the most impressive uh is madira Beach and madira Beach they currently have three full-time positions and two part-time positions for the parking enforcement um and uh they go every day all seven days from 6:00 a.m. to 11: p.m. looking at what we do we have two folks both hard workers they uh work 10 hours a day four days a week but what that leaves us short on is no uh parking enforcement at all on Wednesdays no parking enforcement at all after 7 o'clock any night some of those no parking enforcement of even you're giving away our secret oh I'll give them all away because I actually talked to a couple of the hotel years on the beach as well and what they tell you is that yeah we know your schedule and basically when people come to the hotel we tell them you can park over there but not until after 5 or not until after 7 so uh I I'm a little bit motivated to see us do something and I think that a headcount or couple of part- Tim or something would would really be beneficial to the city and uh and I'm going to put the chief on uh a little bit but I I think the chief actually has told me that uh if we have these folks they can also uh write tickets for you know the uh the issues on the beach whether it be dogs or smoking or whatever it is so Chief if you can help me out a little bit here I I'll say from just from a a a broad perspective the part-time positions have not worked out well in the city's past we they're difficult to fill in fact one of the two parking enforcement positions was was a part-time position and it went unfilled for months if not years and as soon as we made it full-time we filled it so that just from a big perspective part-time positions might not be the the best path forward however if we Branch off and do extra duties which we were talking about I had the same conversation with commissioner Dicky um it's possible that we want to expand their duties to more of a community service Aid type where they could also go on the beach and help with the dogs off leashes and all the other smoking on the beaches help with the um any any type of ordinance violation more than just parking um it's it would be a third time full full third time person we could stagger the schedule so we could have somebody literally in doing parking enforcement from 7: a.m. to 7: P p.m. at least if not later on some of our busier nights I mean that's absolutely feasible yeah I think that that the opportunity for us to one begin to enforce more of the ordinances that we actually have uh as well as to bring in additional money um in M madira Beach they didn't bring in $100,000 they didn't bring in you know $400,000 they brought in a number closer to6 to 700,000 now there a lot of that is in fees and everything else and yes they do have St uh I want to say St John's Pass they do have John's Pass over there which is one of the more highly visited locations and and everybody's trying to save a buck or two so they do write a lot more tickets than we write for parking but uh I I think that there's is an opportunity for us to start to enforce all of the ordinances that uh that we've already passed um as well as the parking enforcement and uh and I I just think it's worth looking into if nothing else but uh I I would like to to see in this budget um bring on at least one additional full-time person I we we do have I I might can confirm this but we have been setting records as far as parking tickets and parking revenue and that's not our goal but we're able to with two full-time parking people we able to go out there and enforce the existing ordinance and forces and as as we open up in Sunset Beach now with our LPR and and it's going to be more efficient and more effective around the entire city yeah I concur with that I think that would be a good investment of City money adding an extra position for parking enforcement I agree too and also we've added it to the library at night so we get revenue from parking because it's convenient for the the businesses downtown the salt um is it saltwater hippie um for their their overflow captains so they use the library parking at night so we get a return return on that for the library so hopefully that's also impacting our library budget for next year to move it down a little save costs for our residents is everyone in support of that concept yeah yeah okay with with monitoring so we're make sure that there's a that the investment's worth it yes my only just from you know kind of overseeing some of the parking stuff would U my only hesitation is getting the LPR stuff up and running and get like once we've had some months of us experiencing it and and working in it to see how much more the revenues are just with the LPR system we might end up having those efficiencies that we just haven't quite yet realized yet um so that's just you know my only well it's not really about the LPR technology it's about the Gap in coverage like vice mayor doctor mentioned we have no one on Wednesday and we after 500 p.m. on Thursday through Sunday that's yeah P like prime time is yeah or maybe we need to flex the schedules a little so that we get the prime time that's that's the problem they're flexed right now but you only have certain minute hours and of course during the summertime you know your sunet is at 7:45 to 8:45 or whatever and in the winter time you know it's dark by 6:00 so it's a little bit I hate to I hate to put you on the spot but did would you think a third position could share the two vehicles like Staffing wise we'd have to look into that because I you know it's it's one thing to have an extra person for the extra time you need but if having three people out there at any given time doesn't seem like it would be um I think just having a person out there at any time is Valu more valuable than having three people out there so if there's a way that we could Hot Seat the parking vehicles that might be a way Mike I think that's something that we can take a look at do an analysis on what a true cost would be for fully implementing another employee there and we can bring that back yep all right any other comments or questions on parking we have one public comment on parking Rob baso thanks again for pronouncing the name correctly Capri Boulevard I'm a simple milit operations kind of guy but I I'm kind of amazed to see parking as a as its own entity in in a budget and such a a revenue generator I'm a kind of guy that I would like to see more U Know commercial development Economic Development and pay some of these bills and replace this as a revenue stream I see parking enforcement kind of as a negative thing uh I look at Denon and a look at Gulfport and guess what parking is free and parking is free because they subsidized by the prospering uh businesses there so um just want to offer to you that if we had more Economic Development more businesses uh more of that land developed there on a downtown on Central Avenue um that perhaps would generate money and that would perhaps help subsidize some of the revenue and maybe offer some free parking just just a thought thank you thank you any other comments on parking I don't have a card in on this one can I that's yeah you can come up thanks um just to follow up on parking I do airport development and uh parking is the number one Revenue at an airport other than the rent the airlines pay uh it's a very uh it's a very defined business and in order to do it well um it takes a number of components so enforcement is a legitimate area to discuss and to you know plan for and and implement but you need business plan for your parking uh revenues at the city it's also a big Revenue in your uh general fund I think it's about 10% or something and um so I I would encourage that as you're looking at trying to get a cost benefit analysis of justifying a head to drive around and issue more tickets um and I think they're pretty good at issuing tickets because somebody came out to the end of Sixth Street and gave me a ticket out there so I know they get around uh and it might have been on a Wednesday um but anyway um execute a business plan on parking do it for your own properties the city do it for the city plan do it for um people who are doing private operations at airports we put a we put a fee on um you know an access fee in so that you build a parking plan that maximizes Revenue this is part of Economic Development just just what um Alfonso is saying that that um as you look at your businesses it'll it'll complement how you plan to develop business how you plan to encourage investment and parking Revenue can be and parking operations can be an important part of that but it is a defined business and so um I encourage you to try to treat it as such so you're looking at it from the revenue side from the execution side and then the enforcement is part of it if you just look at enforcement you know it's it's easy to enforce but you you you want to offer products you want to tailor them to times of day Peak Seasons all that is available they make they make the uh software now that allows you to adjust your revenues to Peak so that you can say if you're having sanding Ovation and you just want to have you know an event charge for that day for $20 at a space software does all that so there there's a big upside to this if you uh if you uh make it make an attempt to get better at it at at parking on the business side thank you thank you any other public comment all right any further wrapup comments when do we talk about parking Revenue is that a separate discussion we can we can have the conversation you know now if it's now we're on the on the program all right at the uh parking Revenue a couple of things and i' mentioned this to you Mike when you and I met a couple weeko and I'll end up I'll make those adjustments for the for the adopted there there'll be some other um there's there's always some other updates between the adopted and or the proposed and the adopted so I I'll make sure that those are included all right thank you um before we move on I was just going to mention I mean I I agree I think there's a lot of potential in the parking program and it right now falls under our finance department and Mike's in charge and um we have limited staff so I know St P beach has a has a whole parking director kind or is no longer with the city of St Pete Beach and that's actually one of the costs that we've stripped out of the parking program for next year um there is a u um a vendor that um I hate to call her old Amy but uh previous Amy uh and I worked with u that kind of sketched out a lot of the current strategies that you know we've been implementing from the LPR to uh the second parking enforcement that was one of their big recommendations was to have a second parking enforcement um so we've we have engaged with a a vendor in the past that's given us some um best practices to pursue so you know i' I'd be more than willing to U Circle back with them and see if they could uh have them do a rundown of our program and they've they've been a they've like they're you know they are experts in this field and so they know what our size is and what all of our limitations are and can you know make some recommendations as to ways to you know increase revenues or reduce expenses whatever certainly good for the commission to think about I just want to kind of reiterate the public comment that it is we definitely recognize the the potential there but it's just it's a staff constraint of how much staff time do we want to put into developing a program that does have all those kind of unique fluctuations and things like that because there is a lot of a lot of potential it's how much do we want to spend on it right and as the chief said you know that uh the folks can be working you know on the beach and you know and that may be if we're taking a look at a vehicle you know it may be that uh when the vehicle's not available that that's when they're working the beach yeah or an ebike or something or an ebike yeah absolutely as long as they obey the speed limit yeah think we had eik any other comments on yeah you you've got existing utilization on the two vehicles right um yes we've we do have I mean those are as as soon as either Dave or Emily are on staff those vehicles are out on the road okay okay so you can put a number together with the return on that like their hours and like the basically the revenue they generate per hour it's be a math problem but yeah it's it's it's just easy put numbers on paper if you put a third I do all day can't you project that yeah we yeah we could um the the only thing is that it assumes that it's a linear amount of uh enforcement that we're not grabbing so there might be diminished returns for that third person but if if their costs are less than the revenue they're bringing in then it makes sense so they'll put it together for us yep all right um moving on to Transit yeah Transit and uh then Library so there just two uh I'll quickly go through them since um these are kind of non City programs um Transit one's pretty self-explanatory we uh reviewed this at a recent commission meeting um there's a decrease in the operation ating expenses for the cancellation of the uh uh expanded Transit options that we had included in the FY 24 budget um and then there's an increase in operating expenses related to the new PSTA rates that's um the one-year adjustment for the par Transit and those costs stay flat for the next five years and then U it's like a 10 and seven and a half% each year for the uh trolley service and that's uh those are the only changes for the transit program and again to oh could you could you repeat those rates please oh um the the oh so it's 18,000 is the annual rate for uh the parat transit service and that will be fixed for the next 5 years they're not inflating that one the balance of that so trying to do the math off top of my head 300,000 roughly is for the trolley and that's um that one does have an escalator in the out years uh but it's the same escalator that was in the first 5 years so it's it feels like it's a reasonable um especially with um knowing that it's a a a minimal adjustment for the PA of Transit when you you when the total magnitude of impact and I think I actually they actually sent me the signed agreement back uh this morning so we will be all set for next year so you mentioned the decrease in the cancellation of the idea for expanded Transit options I just want to touch base with the commission and make sure that's the still the directive that we're on we're not interested in the freebie at all okay all right that's all I have any public comment on Transit okay library library again just like uh uh Transit we covered this at the commission meeting a couple of weeks ago their contract is up about a little over 6% um if you uh a couple of years ago they actually cut our rate at the direction of some of the other cities so we knew that them ramping this back up was not uh unheard of so the 6% is um a little bit higher than you know what we had you know anticipated hoped for but is is in line considering the um the rate cut from a few years ago yeah and I think the commissioner Toth had already provided some fantastic information about uh the library's new programs for next year and some of their uh ongoing um Outreach exactly and also we're expecting to see hopefully in the long run when we fully Implement our parking program that that should offset any increases great any questions on the library any public comment on the library all right hearing none we'll move on to Penny for pelis yeah so I guess at this point we can uh I'm going to turn it over basically and we can um uh rather than just jumping right into the penny I think the the uh maybe the best way is to actually just open up you uh all have been provided the CIP breakdown so um within that document the uh first eight pages or so is a summary of all the uh Capital uh projects scheduled for FY 25 through 29 um the first four pages is them organized by program so that's Beach Causeway infrastructure facilities vehicle maintenance um and then the second four pages is all of those same projects regrouped by fund so general fund penny for pelis so it's the exact same information on both of those fir first eight pages just packaged in two different ways um and then following that are the actual project writeup sheets for all of the uh all of the programs and the projects that are uh scheduled for FY 25 through 29 um whether the commission just whether we want to go through the list and have like a quick explanation of some of the projects or um if if the commission has any particular projects that they um would like a a you know greater conversation and breakdown of you know we we are happy to um cater to whatever gets the best information so you're suggesting running through this the CIP so yeah if project sheet if if we want to look through the project sheets and and basically go through them real quickly and and kind of get a a summary of each of the projects um I think some of them are fairly straightforward like if we're taking the Dune walkovers that's a pretty self-explanatory one those are just uh decaying and falling apart over time um and uh are just in need of you know recurring replacement so if we want to go in and and uh just look at the individual projects we can do so or uh we can look at them by like program and just kind of see you know broadly what um each is doing sure I think if you can I don't think there's that many of them so if you want to just touch base on the ones that are budgeted for this year I think that would ohin be helpful sure yeah so uh just kind of going down we'll do it by uh by program so and just looking at the ones that are identified for uh fy2 uh the Dune walkovers which we've mentioned that's that's been a recurring item in there um some years the that balance will actually be carried forward for a future year and that's just for economies of scale um it's a lot easier to get a vendor out here to whenever you're spending half a million dollars versus 250,000 so there's we get a little bit bang for our buck by you know bundling those up and saving them um every couple of years other years we you know we spend it if if we need it so um that's just kind of an a recurring program to keep that that uh well funded um there's $532,000 identified for bascule bridge uh uh structural maintenance programs and that's those are all detailed on that sheet um there's actually a couple of Causeway projects um a few next year but as you see that Causeway uh program for the next five years really starts to uh to ramp up a little bit but um as we as you can see on the causeway page in the budget document itself we are well funded um with that 0.5 Ms to meet all of those long-term capital needs for the bridge um and just to I always like to remind and reiterate this every year is that the the study that underlined the slow ramp up to the 0 five Ms um was predicated on what is the amount of money the city needs on a recurring basis over the projected 75e lifespan of that bridge to keep it in that working order so it's it's preventative maintenance it's not routine maintenance it's maintenance that keeps that bridge working exactly as it was built and designed to do the that 05 Ms does not at the end of the 75 years contemplate replacement of the bridge that's something that we always to mention but in 50 something years from now that'll be uh somebody else's uh but it's it is a uh it is a long-term um and it can and it will as we demonstrate every year that it will U cover the capital needs uh for the bridge for the next five years uh the biggest one of those coming in FY 29 is the painting of the uh U painting of the bridge um City facilities uh we do have uh the 610,000 in contingency for the public works again that is just uh uh to cover bases and it is done on a contingency basis um and the electrical Transformer there for 650,000 um I can have uh Stacy speak to this one um a little bit more but um basically this is from what I understand this is what Duke has quoted us to relocate these services if it's okay with you all I would like to speak from the actual CIP page for this project and that is page 19 of the CIP packet is is that anything we can put up on the screen as well for so this is a CIP page that we've had for a few years now and the attempt was to kind of look at the site as a whole and to look at the opportunities and the various projects um that were projected for the site so um the master pump station is is funded currently and it's not shown here here and um Mike can explain why we're not showing that one but we are resowing the public works yard at the same amount as well as contingencies added in for both projects you might want to increase that size yeah um so the the reason why is that the the 5.2 million that's for the master lift station is in the Wastewater fund um and is has a federal uh component plus the arpa money um since it's already been budgeted and work has somewhat been uh done on that project that one will be done on a carry forward basis because that's all City current city money that we have the 6.1 million for the public works is debt issuance so rather than carrying that project forward uh I'd rather let it fall this year and re-budget it next year just so that it's it's cleaner from a financial perspective and it avoids having to do a carry forward thank you um so contingency um monies are shown for that as well as the the switch gear and the Transformer which we would like to talk about for a minute so we identified um there are easements on The Old City Hall property which have large switch gears and Transformers on them and they are as the site is laid out and we've looked at a few different Alternatives pretty prohibitive for how we can use the site um so we talked with Duke Energy about the potential to to relocate those and we got this as a preliminary cost um and we recognize that that cost is very high and it's not what we're looking to spend um so we're in the talks with them we understand that that cost includes not only a relocation but an upgrade that we don't feel the city should be paying for because that upgrade serves not just that site but a large portion of the city um and so that's something that um Jennifer Cowan is familiar with having these discussions um with their legal entity and um that is taking place as well um so that more or less is a placeholder but um not what we're looking towards spending we just don't have a better number to plug in that spot for right now the EV charging stations um as Mike said are proposed to support our City's Fleet um so those would be um the slower speed Chargers that would be back behind the fence um where we could just charge up overnight um our city Vehicles the Public Works canopies are a an alternative to constructing walled structures which are very expensive you know in the flood plane um to house some of our more critical equipment like generators you want to keep those you know as dry as possible out in the elements but they don't necessarily need to have space within a building um so that is what those are for for the most part the um this next line item is for the marina and that's something um I know Kathy has a lot of knowledge about this as well we are we've discussed this before but we are at risk for losing our submerged land lease and I know there's a lot of unknowns about what we're going to do on this site in the future but we're strongly suggesting that we make a decision on the marina sooner than later um so the cost that's plugged in here is basically just not so much a new design as it is just kind of put it back the way that it is um anything outside of what it is would require um a change to our landl through the state which is doable but it's a process so if we're going to make any changes it needs to happen as soon as possible so that we can get that underway and the other complication to the marina is um that is one of our worst seaw walls in the city so the seaw wall needs to be done um in conjunction with the marina and so we have um when we get to the infrastructure CIP we can talk about the various seaw wall projects but that is one as well that needs to be done at the same time um that's kind of a lot of information just on that first piece um do you want to talk a little bit more about that part yeah yes questions the Public Works building if if we decide to go with Outsourcing on on uh solid waste removal how does that affect uh what we had planned for the public works facility it impacts um space within the yard that's allocated to store dumpsters cans and sanitation Vehicles so so we wouldn't need as much space parking space uh and is that cut is that uh uh the canopy that you talk about here is that part of the equation there for that no okay so so theity itself the structure itself is not impacted by this decision one way or the other no because because what we're talking about Outsourcing pertains to commercial Sanitation we'd still have other um sanitation staff and sanitation Vehicles what could potentially be done if we had a decision sooner than later is maybe to to move the building a little bit further o over to the west side which may create more space for something else whatever that may be in the future that would be the impact okay not much because I will say it's very tight in there um once we do uh resume the project we would bring back to you um if you haven't seen so far some of the site constraints that we have on there and it literally was like a a game trying to fit like all the equipment and vehicles with the Turning radiuses needed to to make everything all of our equipment and supplies fit back there it was quite a challenge now this relocation of the Duke Transformer does that have to be done to build the new uh lift station it it is is um so we do want to one of the first things we also want to do when we pick this back up is to explore other Alternatives we did look at Alternatives primarily when we were doing the site layout and it was just very prohibitive I mean when you take out there if I'm not sure how familiar but they're pretty much right up against the back of the existing City Hall so they're kind of like lined up in a row and um they're just not in a in a placement that really leaves a lot of Alternatives in the yard but um obviously if if we can't get movement on reducing this price significantly then it sounds like it's going to be something that we've got to figure out a way to work around because we recognize that's a lot of money that's a lot of money but the uh the lift station is is you know critical right so and I I think we've been saying that now for at least the three years I've been on the commission and we still haven't built it and I understand that a lot of it was with the city hall and you know how it got slowed up and the whole process that that took place there but you know I I'm taking a look at my phone and watching the weather and hoping that uh you know we're not going to see any anything come through this uh this next week here because we've been telling people and ourselves that this is critical and that's why I'm asking if the Transformers have to be moved because the the sooner we get moving on that portion of the project anyhow which is the lift station uh the better it is for everyone right and while we do mention that it's a critical asset um I wouldn't say that we're at a critical state in terms of our equipment and our capacity at that station okay what's the lifespan on those the Transformers that's behind there I would have to ask Duke Energy that all we all we've been told by them is they are um ready to be upgraded then I would think it would behoove them for all the weather coming through and what we've talked about to kind of to move on fixing up their infrastructure so yeah just same Stacy the equipment uh canopies that that we were talking about $575,000 are those going to be retractable and the reason I asked for that if a storm heads this direction is it something we can roll up and store away or is it likely to be gone with the win hopefully neither they um they they were for seen to be um permanent structures basically just Without Walls so canopy I think maybe the disconn canopy is kind of a broad so can you do you have any metallic build more details they're basically what they what we have out there right now they're just you've heard of lean to right they your cover a piece of equipment runs off all the sides are open it's to protect them from the Sun so it's generators it's it's your uh equipment that would like your uh tractors your um um vac trucks things of that sort uh but not bit not like the garbage trucks and things of that sort so it'd be your specialized equipment that goes in there and no they're not retractable they're just they're basically Lan toos they're bolted down yeah they're like wind rated and they have to be we have to we have to go through the same permitting process at this point we're talking about the Public Works building and the yard and uh I've seen now for a while it's been tagged with a $6.1 million cost um but I've never seen anything from the city that has showed me even what this this is going to look like you know there's there's some I'll call it a rendering because I I don't think that it's far enough along to actually say that this is going to have these facilities and and and at what cost great trying to figure out a way to put this um we didn't necessarily um agree with um the way that all the renderings looked so we understand that this is a Public Works building it's a institutional building and it doesn't need to be super fancy um so there was recently a um a letter that went to the architect who um we were using on that project who said that we were going to now be going in another Direction and that was one of those reasons okay and and I think that I know that at at one point there had been discussion with the commission about uh what do we do with all the the land there at 108 and you know one of them was a park um so because of that we were going to put in public restrooms into this Public Works building uh at at a relatively expensive cost because you know they were going to be on the the ground level and the then the space above it you know needed to be you know you you it showed that we were going to build out that space right but it really didn't show what the use of that space was going to be or any productive use of what that space was going to be so you know it could could mean that the building is going to be substantially smaller so the space um that was provided upstairs um the way that we initially designed it was very um kind of flex use space and we did feel that we minimized that space um pretty well as much as we could and so the bottom buildout it does have additional cost to it but not so much additional space but that would certainly be one of the components to the project that the commission could take or leave you wouldn't have to build that out to be a public restroom and there would be a cost savings because of that but not so much a footprint savings because the space upstairs was um needed and do we have any idea when we're going to see any of the uh the renderings or the actual you know whether it's 30% 70% whatever so we um we have have the Engineering Services RFQ ready to go back out um our City attorney notified us that the semar contract needed to go out at the same time which makes a lot of sense because the engineer of record will be overseeing that contract as well so the idea is we're going to be putting out the construction manager at risk and the engineering service provider contracts here very soon we're very close on having those ready to go this um and then what we do is we bring that construction manager on board and we let them know and the new architect this is the amount of money that we have to work with and one of the benefits of having the semr on board is is they're helping us through the finalization of those designs to design to and to be able to construct to that cost so they're going to be the ones who are performing that construction management and they can help us determine early on what those costs are um so we're designing to those numbers as we move forward in the design so I would the idea is is that all the renderings all the design all the estimates that we have to date are going to be part of these solicitation packets so that people who are bidding on this project know the challenge that we have here's our space constraints here's our budget constraints here's our number of personnel and what we're trying to do here and it's going to be very clear that we're looking for you to help us drive to this result um so I would suspect that a few months into that process after we have that new um team on board that we would bring to you those ideas and I would hope that they would be mod ified from what we have today so while I say that that pertains mostly to the public work side of the building we are at a solid about 60% or so on our Master Pump Station design that is what it is and and we're happy with where we are on that part okay this it just seems like a lot of work that that we're talking about that needs to be done here we don't even have a design for all practical purposes that is that correct we we know the spaces that we need for our staff to function in the public works facility we know what we need equipment wise and spacewise for our garage and our Fleet to function we know spacewise our staff actually did most of the layout of the yard you know we provided a rundown of everything that needs to go there and how we operate so I think we have a good handle the components that we're Le least happy with are one um as doctor mentioned the renderings we think these aren't technical terms a little too fancy for what we're looking for um and some of those other some of the cost that went into it had some components interiorly that are also probably more than what we need for that type of building so I I I do think I mean it's by no means a start over I just think we have some things that we're going to tweak the reason I'm asking that it just seems like between the uh project where we're going to to evaluate the like or the possibility of Outsourcing solid waste removal and all the other planning everything else that needs to be done here I I just don't see how we could get this done in in the next year it just do you do you see that as something that can be I think that having a semar on board um saves a lot of time it's not an additional procurement there are certainly negotiations that will take place at your level to come up with the GMP for that service um but I do think that we can hit the ground going pretty quickly once we have those procurements out on the street what kind of time frame are you thinking about then I would like to have that conversation with the new team to bring that back to you once we're there on board okay sure um that that pertains to the building the building and the pump station yeah but I okay well I'll put l all of them together sure um but the other side of that is what you also mentioned what commissioner dicki mentioned and that is if you sub out solid waste a portion thereof or or a portion so it doesn't that reduce the requirements of the building it would be two trucks less and a few staff less potentially and that said if anyone's listening we're not planning to get rid of any staff haven't had that conversation yet with with our team um but no we're not talking about any any type of significant space savings within the building itself there like I said it's a lot of shared use spaces um our staff individually don't have spaces within the building you know we're proposing to have right now we don't have any kind of locker room we don't have any showers we're dealing with waste and and sanitary sewer with no no showers there's no air conditioned space for people to eat you know yeah like lunchroom so these are spaces that by eliminating a small handful of Staff don't reduce the space needs of the building and you think the only thing that would be saved would be two trucks so that's something that we're we're working through we're we're developing a RFQ or an RFP that we're going to put out for this service and we're looking at where the efficiencies are um we still have to have a rear loader to do special pickups if that's a service that are um that our residents expect which they do the yard was service the um picking up couches and chairs and that sort of thing you still have to have a rear loader to do that we still have a claw truck and and yard I said yard waste so you're we only have three we have three three rear loaders we can only we only get rid of two for commercial right all these services that you described Stacy can't those be rolled into a contract with a subcontract I think that's that's part of a a larger discussion um we would be reducing the level of service to the city and likely increasing the cost to do those things but it's something that I mean you can put out an RFP to get information on a multitude of services and and we can do that we can do that exercise to do more than um just what we're proposing um but we we feel the real efficiencies are coming from um the potential to Outsource commercial Outsourcing just commercial just commercial that's what the staff has proposed is they the only thing the staff has suggested at this point is looking into Outsourcing commercial not residential I have heard some comments up here suggesting that we may want to look into Outsourcing residential can you touch on I know I've had conversations with Gary about the risks of doing that um does someone want to comment on that we can talk about that so if you'll recall a few years because it does play into this conversation of the public works are so if we were to eliminate all of um public orid solid waste that would have an impact on the size of the yard for sure and our staff I'm not saying I'm in support of that whatsoever because I do believe that once you get locked into and this is what Stacy Says once you Outsource that they're going to pitch you waste management or Waste Pro is going to come in with a really great attractive offer that's going to save us us lots of money and then they're going to increase our rates every year Well you build that into the the contracts some kind of cap on the on on the amount that they can increase it but our contracts are only for three and five years [Music] generally so well well here's what I I was not following the conversation at all because when when I kept mentioning about examining the the uh Outsourcing of of solid waste removal I was thinking about the residential part not the commercial because you came to us the commission a few weeks ago and U made a case for outsourcing uh the commercial pickup you act like you don't know what I'm talking about you made a a presentation to us that talked about the the uh uh injuries that our workers were suffering from pushing these oh the ordinance yes and and those are with regard to Commercial Services right so you had mentioned about that you would would be or Gary had mentioned it to me that we were looking at Outsourcing that but I also thought we were looking at Outsourcing the residential piece of it I I and I think I think it's worth having a conversation I think it's a very long conversation it goes into our capabilities of um commercial driv license holders and the equipment that we have to respond during tropical events and things like that so there's a lot of shared use among personnel and among equipment um in terms of level of service there's a big conversation to have there as well and what you can expect if you turn that service over and then and um looking at other residential collection contracts and what those cost compared to um the costs here incurred by the city so I do think that that's something that we can have a greater conversation on but I think that is a longer it's a in-depth conversation and I don't have all the information with me today we we've only been tasked at this point to look at Outsourcing commercial which would be all your commercial dumpsters and also your residential that have uh more than uh multif family right that's the only thing that we have been tasked to do at this point right well we Outsource recycling right now that's that's correct okay and we were talking about you guys were talking about and recommending that we Outsource commercial so you were heading in that direction that based on your recommendation so we're just we I'm not speaking for the entire commission but myself at this point and we can hear from the others but I'm suggest ing that and hoping that we take a hard look at Outsourcing the residential as well I have no problem with my recycling pickup on Friday I put I put the recycle thing out and the and the solid waste uh out and they're both picked up and I didn't know until a couple of weeks ago that recycling was handled by an outside firm so I don't notice any difference in the level of service between the two so anyway let's let's take a hard look at that because it does have some serious implications and when I was asking about the timing of all this I I was thinking we were doing an examination not just of the commercial but the residential and how long that might take and will we even be able to begin a public works facility until we have this issues this issue resolved so while we would like to pick up this analysis sooner than later we have a number of procurements that we're behind on getting out and we just honestly we don't have somebody in that position who's just doing procurements right now so we're you know we probably should have a larger discussion about everything that needs to go out and what we think those priorities are and and have that discussion with you all because maybe you have a different opinion of what those priorities are right because while this is something that's important to us we have a list of other ones that we're working on as well well the other thing that's not even shown on here but we were going to discuss it later there's two trucks at 4 15,000 each budgeted for next year yes uh and I think that's for residential is it not it is yes so that's you know we definitely will be needing to make that evaluation and the decision about what we're going to do with that before we commit to spending that kind of money on new trucks right and like Mike said we didn't really feel that that was part of the discussion and that's why we're recommending replacing those now um and and we have had a lot of preliminary discussions of what what things would look like either way and we feel strongly that the residents would expect more than what you would get from the same cost level of service wise and what you would have from a private provider so when you compare what we provide from Solid Waste perspective to recycling it's like comparing apples and oranges I mean a recycling provider is just picking up a can one day a week um so we could share with you some data on the number of calls we get and and the level of service our residents have come accustomed to for sanitation because it's it's a lot it's a completely different animal you can't compare it to recycling services well there's a number of cities that that Outsource their residential pickup yep and we could compare to some of those contract numbers let's do that we can easily do some comparisons as to what our um what our operating and capital costs are for sanitation versus what other cities have in their contracts and the level of service that those contracts provide okay and commissioner if I could add and I don't know if this is part of the CIP program or the equipment replacement for the trucks but if it is I would recommend you know we still look at going forward with that because as the gentleman mentioned earlier you can always write that into a contract where you can have somebody who bids to buy your equipment back from you as part of the agreement that goes forward that's a good point and in these contracts they actually charge the city or the user back those equipment and truck fees anyway so whether you're owning it or whether they're owning it you're paying for it and that's another another point just the procurement of these garbage trucks will take a number of months anyway so even if we said hey we want to order it it'll take it would take months and they're those orders are generally cancelable until the last minute because there'll be somebody else that needs to buy a garbage druck I I don't think we should order the trucks until we we've uh evaluated the feasibility of Outsourcing they're not on this year are they that's next year's budget right that's next year's and the year after 25 25 so we we can't order anything until we come back to you for an approval to to make that purchase anyway so when we do that we'll make sure that we it's not going to be like a full-blown RFP that we have results from but we can certainly look at the differences between our cost and other City contractual costs absolutely all right thank you the city did engage in doing just what you're being asked to do but I think that was like 10 years ago Mike I don't know maybe okay even before you that's ancient anyhow a long time ago so there is something on the record uh as to what was considered what the public input was and what the resolution was so we can go back and look at that some place yeah some place in the archives and someone earlier had mentioned only a 3% increase in recycling and that's only because we're under a current contract it hasn't expired yet so that's like the the good and the bad about having these terms is it doesn't look bad it doesn't look bad and then all of a sudden it looks really bad and people are like oh no we don't want this anymore well was because you didn't allow them to increase Nom nominally over that time period so it's you know there's goods and bads to both of them um in terms of this um Master Pump Station Public Works project the other thing that was brought up earlier that I wanted to put in there was about the lead certification um that is wholly you know up to the commission we're not um we put it in here because our Land Development regulations as they're written today strongly encourage any um development that occurs downtown to pursue lead certification so we felt that it was our responsibility to put that in here um we do not have to do it um but we wanted to put that here before you because that's what's in Our Land Development regulations um and so someone said there it it's very true there are more upfront costs in pursuing that certification you do um you're able to prove operational efficiencies and look at Roi over time on those operational expenditures um especially with regard to energy use um but that that's a discussion for the commission to provide direction to staff any thoughts no can I ask a question about the um EV charging station since we're planning on using it at nighttime basically is there a way that we could put it more in a public access point so that people could use it and pay some fees to use the charging station if use parking spensive because they're um slow um and so I my understanding is most people are looking for like high-speed Chargers that that can get done within a couple of hours not like over a 7 eight hour period at night gotcha sorry I'm no there's a bunch of different kinds I don't know all the ins and outs of them either I just know that these are relatively inexpensive because they're like an overnight kind of charging situation mayor if I could jump in I just wanted to ask so did I hear the commission the will the will of the commission is to take a look at the uh not just commercial but also residential I I I mean I did hear commissioner Dicky I just didn't know that I got do we do we want to do that or do we want to just do we want to put it on a commission Workshop to can just talk about it more have the staff have a chance to just put some thoughts together and a little memo rather than we don't need to go out for a full um at that maybe at that Workshop we can decide if we want to go out for some sort of full study on it or evaluation but just have a chance to discuss it further information well down that road okay be what I'm sorry I think we're pretty well down that road as to whether or not to say yay or nay to a study of Outsourcing Solid Waste I I I agree so I think we got two two people in agreement at least well if we're going to have a discussion about it be nice to know some of the figures of what it's going to cause yeah I don't think we're discussing whether or not we're going to do it or not I think we're discussing we do we want the staff to go and and and ask for yeah a proposal for us to do it so that we can compare the cost of that with what we're currently doing that's that's all we're asking to say not not to approve it just to look at it but to Stacy's Point that's that is a very that's a timec consuming process to go out for a proposal and I think it would be worthwhile to at least have a chance for her for them to gather their thoughts and provide a memo to us about the priorities like she just mentioned to us there's other initiatives that the staff may think is a higher priority for for the city rather than going out to RFP for residential trash I would just I'd just rather give the staff a little bit more time to put okay and I don't think it's as simple as making commercial or residential because there's complimentary uses for the the people people in the equipment so having a good understanding of that I think would help the commission reach a decision on what they want to do maybe we can put it on a workshop then to talk about what to move it forward yeah I think a workshop would be an answer I'd be comfortable with a workshop okay so and and I'm comfortable as well not that it matters at this point but it's uh as long as we don't order order $415,000 trucks I think they got that memo thank you understood I think that was clear yeah I don't think no they've they said that has to come back to us that's a p that's a huge purchase it has to be approved by the commission so we don't have we won't approve that until we have a a decision thank you is that acceptable the staff yes thank you okay do we have any other yeah let let me ask one question that'll pertain to a couple things it says demolish the former PW garage now is that the one that's next to the fire department it's the one in back at okay so it's is the actual garage and back not the garages or whatever are over by the uh Pump Station today no we call that like the the yard back there so we will be coming back before you um towards maybe October is to to talk about demoing the old Public Works Administration building and City Hall just here in a couple of months okay thank you okay [Music] moving down through City facilities what's next if we uh if we want to prioritize looking at the ones with an FY 25 impact yes um then the next one would be the community uh the Treasure Bay uh improvements yeah if you guys want to stay up here that'd be perfect yeah um these um I'll just kind of go over a little bit of a high level for this one um Mike what page is that sorry this would be page 23 thank you do you have questions for that or So currently in our budget um we have funds to replace the windows and the storefronts and this year um planning to redo the stucco and the paints and if you've been to Treasure Bay you've seen the cracks in the windows and the stucco falling off the walls um we did most recently fine termites subterraneo they've treated but the colony was so large that we will be tenting um so we've done the drilling into the um walls but we can't tent until October 10th is when we're scheduled to tent so we don't know other than the baseboards and the drywall we've already seen damage and in the clubhouse what the other extent is to the building um from the termites but um I had arvar uh termite come out and it's a very large Colony so he's drilled he's going to treat again and hopefully it'll hold us off till October so um I think personally we should probably wait until we're see what the termites have done I'm afraid when we start removing windows that we might see some additional damage um which leads us to another conversation is do we continue to put because this year we have um I think almost 200,000 in the budget to do Club house um repairs we've already done 47,000 with the new HVAC system and things like that that so you know it's it's moving forward but the the clubhouse definitely is in disrepair I know that many of you have been out there and you've seen it so you're well aware of what needs to be done with it so that's another thought for you but definitely October 10th will'll be doing the final tenting and um if we start removing the windows I don't know what we'll come into with our you know and you've seen the stucko and the wire mesh already Exposed on the outside of the building so you know what we're dealing with I question how functional that building really is to be quite honest it well yeah even even if it was brand new I mean the space that's in it and you know it basically is a place to go get a soda and use the restroom correct yeah how much is I mean you probably don't know the answer but I think just a rhetorical question compared to spending this much how are we able to with FEMA to build an outdoor restroom facility and a a snack Booth or something you know and how does that compare to the cost of a renovating this existing structure or a new structure in the future and that's where we don't want to be dumping money into something that which consense that is your sentiment as well but we can um get with um the building department and talk with them about the constraints in terms of what what could happen there um we did about a year or two ago start looking at maybe a prefabbed building that was elevated and looked at some of those costs um that would probably need to be escalated now but we do have some some different numbers and different scenarios um that we we could provide yeah I think that's a good idea before we sink a bunch of money into the cost of all of the you know cuz you tent for termites and you pull the windows out and the walls are gone yeah and it's already affected our drywall and our baseboards within the building I mean we were having swarms of termite so um down here you've got this zero turn mower yeah that's not till um 27 fiscal year 27 Oh okay um what we are doing is I don't know if you've um recall but hurricane Ian damag courts 9 and 10 when we received um funding from the USA and we actually mitigated those um courts to have more polls less um fabric showing to hopefully not um create damage for them from high wind so the courts look beautiful are completed um shortly after Hurricane Ian we had a tornado that damaged Court 7 and8 and we do have um some insurance money from that so we're at the point now where we need to start replacing all our courts we're sinking you know thousands of dollars into court repairs every year and they're the original tennis courts from back in the day when the courts were built um so we're looking at a program of every you know year to replace two Courts at a time um s and8 would be our recommendation for next year because we do have insurance money and they were damaged I also reached out to USA and gave them our five-year program hopefully to get some funding again from them so I'm waiting to hear from them to see if they'll provide us with annual funding for replacement of the tennis court so fingers crossed there but the tennis courts are definitely um something we need to do within the next you know five years in different banks each year and converting them to something similar to 9 and 10 which hopefully will mitigate any future significant damage from storms okay two two more things um any discussion with Phil about the contribution from St Pete College I don't think that's going to occur they did help us um do a grant and we had gotten um a grant funding to do asphalt courts but that's about the extent they're helping they're willing to help us fund raise but there's no funding from the college themselves even though they use it as their home court that is correct interesting uh and then what about pickle ball courts that's coming up that's a big discussion so we'll we'll um I can go now if you want to talk no if it if you have it in here some we'll keep I have it we'll take that in turn um you have property line F so the discussion that came out of um the golf course was that the residents of the Village um Wanted and said that the property line fence was in disrepair staff did look at it it's old I mean the color of the fence is gray we don't even make gray fences in some time so to replace that property line fence to Black chain link is the 37 or the $37,000 fee um if we wanted to put something very similar to what the village has that would be I got a quote for that but that's almost we're talking 80,000 so I think chain link would be just fine to have the black chain link it'll be 4 foot yeah and that's whatever we I just want to make sure that wasn't along the no water line or no no it's ex uh replacing what we have now with the black yes yeah I don't think we need to go up Market on the fencing no Black's easier to get to ever since covid and every that the black chain links easier less money okay any further comments or questions on the um Treasure Bay improvements okay next um actually let's go ahead and stop there I won't don't want to take too much um on CIP without doing a little break for public comment just in case people are holding their comments for a specific project project so might just break where you have a line in each one of these so do we have any public comments for any of the CIP plans that we've discussed so far okay I have Andrew vassie sorry uh I'm going to uh limit it limit the Improvement program comments to the um to the Public Works building and a bid on Treasure Bay on the Public Works building the concern cvti has is in the scope in the scope and the overall reuse of the 108th Street site cvti is not opposed to a new Public Work building CV cvti is not opposed to a new fire station to new police accommodations whether it's over there on 108 or or somewhere else um we are concerned that the the scope and the execution and the funding has been all considered so as you move forward with it it it meshes and we're we're not seeing that on Public Works particularly now that the issue is raised uh today about looking at um at looking at some kind of Outsourcing for solid waste for example um and I I think that that um that that affects the scope the $6 million in bond doesn't reflect the whole project cost the project cost is shown in the budget right now is $8.1 million because there's the you got to take the 6.1 on the bond issue you got to put 650,000 for the canopies 650 for the Transformer relocation and then there's a $610,000 contingency which is essentially a budget increase due to I'm assuming construction escalation while this project has been kicking around for a while uh not sure that what I heard was that is the architect engineer for the Public Works building being terminated is that what the letter that I heard a comment that a letter has been sent going in another Direction now I'm in this business so when I hear that I usually think there's been a change of firms um on that so that would mean that there's a reset unless you want to have a depending on how your contract allowed you to access the work that they've done to date so you can use to Commissioners comment about there being any drawings available um so from the CV cvti point of view you've got six million in debt you want to issue you got another 2 million in pgo coming out of and the 108 land seems to be much more valuable for a higher better use in conjunction with the with the fire part with the fire station and the Public Works building but we think that that if you looked at the overall development of 108 you'd reset the timing of this Public Works project and so our comment as it relates to the to the budget isn't that we're opposed to public works but we think the scope will get adjusted after you look at Outsource trash whether you do it or not then that'll change it back that's that's one outcome and 108 has a lot of potential for additional things so um it's good to hear that the that the marina is a concern because it' be good to have boat slips there to to have something um that was a public private partnership in that area on Treasure Bay um there you're going to talk about the golf course later so we will'll just say that um we have um hired an architect to come up with some plans for ourselves so that we can be knowledgeable to you on what a vision of Treasure Bay could look like it's ultimately your decision and that but we think that that is such a incredible um asset for the city that maybe you're not thinking big enough but you have to look at the sources of funding and all the things that you could put at Treasure Bay to really create uh a coastal education center a golf feature a um a Community Lawn the pickle all the things that people want and have a way to to fund it so we think on Treasure Bay that um there's more discussions to have I'll hold there um on until we get to other capital thank you thank you anything else Ray so um we've already talked about the fact that you got about $8 million that's rolling over um but I really want to focus on the public works and I think it's time to take a different look at this and completely decouple the public work building and the lift station um I have been tracking this and back in 2021 I believe it was there was a lot of discussion about the urgency of getting this thing done that it was a critical piece of infrastructure and I had tried the dollars and what was budgeted for these particular items and so in 2022 we opened up a capital project to do the design and the engineering and then it got shut down in 2023 for what I what I'm led to believe is some sort of a legal issue related to the design engineer and the City Hall and whatever it is I you know I don't know all the details because I can't seem to get them but um you've already spent um about uh $355,000 um on that and I don't think you're any more than 30% uh design level at this point you don't have that engineering firm anymore you're probably going to not have much of that work transferable um it's yet to be seen But if you decouple these things and you can focus on on the um the lift station get that engineering design get it out to bid and get it built I think you're going to be good to get that done in 2025 so you have a $6.1 million plus a contingency on a public works that I think a is too high because it has certain elements to it such as the restrooms for a park that may or may not happen you have space with a a wood shop and so all of these other things that are in there and I believe it could be brought down to a more manageable size and that will help you and if you were to go forward with the garbage which I hope you do but if you were to go forward with that you would need less yard space um I understand the C the canopies but I can you know if I could share that at some point in time in the future I I happen to work on projects in uh Lee and Henry County where when the hurricane hit transfer stations the roof were completely taken off and they went a little bit different with a fabric um um Arch systems and they're out there and they're pretty sturdy and they're not that they're not nearly as expensive as what I'm seeing here so uh those I think are some ideas that I really want uh you guys to think about and again I'm not against the Public Works building and I and I'm I'm glad that those people are going to get some showers and some nice areas but I've looked at it and it seems like it's it's just oversized and again the rest if you're gonna end up doing a park later that's great I think you can build those restrooms and those things at that point in time when you're ready so I think it's time to start deferring some of these things and if you just think about the canopies you talk about the changing the Transformer and all these big items and there's a lot of them um I think um I think you'd be better off to just defer some of those things until the next budget year and focus on getting some things done because this is I got I got to be honest with you this is kind of embarrassing that it's taking this long to get uh a public works and a lift station in um so and it's considered a a very critical I mean we don't want to come back from a hurricane and not be able to flush our toilets that's just not a good thing so I I I hope that you guys will look at that that um a little bit closer and I also want to reiterate about this you know this chart here where we've got a lot more Revenue coming in as we go and I think we need to be careful and and start thinking about how we might be able to um you know maybe uh reduce our millage rate thank you thank you any others sure Mark forgive me mayor MH Mark Hoy 22500 4th Avenue 1 110 I guess I got lost we went in so many directions but comments for Penny for penelas no not yet we kind of diverted from penny so we've just so far discussed the CIP plans for the Dune walkovers okay the bascule bridge and the Public Works building as well as the Treasure Bay Clubhouse all right well I'll limit my comment then to just the uh the whole discussion on Solid Waste what to do in the public works um the numbers I have for the fiveyear replacement vehicles uh shows that we're going to end up at current run rate replacing six trucks over that next four fiscal years for a, 795,000 so that's worth considering and it's worth considering now before we get too far down this replacement cycle so I applaud you for that um as far as the cost I think we would all recognize that cost even with a contractor and a contract is not going to be fixed forever uh we understand that that's negotiable what what's the reasonable rate but do remember uh in our budget for fiscal year 25 we're baking in a 10% and we're going to continue doing that if we do it ourselves to pay for these vehicles the next four fiscal years so that's the Baseline it's not what we're paying now it's going to be that we're going to bump this 10% a year for the next four years to pay for new equipment alone so that's my two cents on that thank you thank you Sean burn hello uh Sean Burn 11627 Street East Treasure Island Florida I just had a couple specific questions um the Transformer behind the city hall The Old City Hall is it feeding other properties or is it only feeding city property do we know the answer and you don't have to answer at the second you answer at the end and then if it is feeding other properties I would assume it's on a utility easement the second thing that just food for thought commissioner Dicky is you know I don't I I agree with you I think looking at rfps for all of them you may get an economies of scale you may get um more business given to a business Maybe be able to give you a better pricing so I don't think it hurts to look at all of it that's just my opinion thank you very your time thank you question regarding the um yeah the question regarding the Transformer I believe Stacy already mentioned that it does service some other properties in that area so that's why we're going back to dupe to get anything else you wanted to elaborate on that just that we believe that's much higher than what we should be responsible for and that the City attorney was working with Duke on that right is planning to work with du planning on okay yes all right Greg Smith so I guess uh I'm I'm I'm big on data points so I'm going to provide you one I've I've had a house in Readington Beach for I think we're going on 15 16 years wai connections picks up our trash they pick it up twice a week they pick up recycling once just like here I don't even you guys are going to be shocked when I tell you what it cost $20 a month okay $20 a month is what we pay for trash twice and re recycling once the technology that these guys have that Waste Connections has that Republic Waste had the technology is so good that they take all the administration out of this they manage it I mean it's unbelievable what they can do um and I will tell you most of you don't know me that well but if I was not getting good service I wouldn't be standing up here and I can't say I live there but I I rent the property and they I checked with them even last week I said are you you're happy you had any issues and again the people that I rent to if they were having issues they would be calling me so I mean it's just a data point but it's very real thanks thank you cara Brown did you have comments on anything so far later on okay um all right any other public comment okay we will move ahead then so um we'll go through infrastructure and parks and probably do storm water too main connectivity okay so this is a fund that we've been um building up for for some time we have a number of projects um that we're looking at in the short term and I'd like to run through those really quick um our Boardwalk area at the Heron lot which some people call lot one some people call it the dog beach that parking lot down there at the end of Bayshore um that Boardwalk there needs to be reconstructed lend um as of today submitted their permit to do their on grade sidewalk um and this I'm sorry you guys looking for the page number 25 25 yes sir thank you thank you basically um one of the projects that we were contemplating that we wanted to share with you and get your feedback on was the continuation of that Ong grade sidewalk into lot one since we also need to reconstruct our portion of the boardwalk our understanding is that the mansions on the other side of our property is also looking into doing the same thing and so we're looking at trying to have a continual design there um that parking lot is in need of some resurfacing anyway so it give us the opportunity to clean up and kind of Rel landscape and reconfigure that lot at the same time and provide that sidewalk through there um so that's one project we were looking at in the near term another is we've been in sorry can you explain again specifically where you're I'm sorry so this is basically we're just showing $200,000 a year as we have for the prior three years I believe to implement some of our connectivity plans okay um and we're talking about some of the short-term needs that we were proposing using some of those funds for and so those aren't Des scripted out here because they're really up to to you all to help us to prioritize um but one of those was um continuing the on grade sidewalk that mansions and Landen are doing that whole section of Boardwalk even the cities is not in good shape we need to construct a new Landing there and we want to continue to have stairs that allow people to go down um but it is most cost efficient and more resilient over time to convert ours to a sidewalk as well um so that's one project that that we were looking at doing in conjunction with the resurfacing that that parking lot needs anyway what it would do would it it would require us guess I'm just not sure where specifically is great I know the herin Lots the furthest to the South right yes some it's what some people call the dog beach Lots oh okay not on the beach side it's back okay I'm looking on beach side okay so just that stretch of our Boardwalk there oh cont changing it to on grade instead of manions and Len or Mansions hasn't shown us a permit or any plans but they were as I understand they were waiting for Len to submit theirs because they were kind of thinking about doing the same thing and so it makes sense for us to have a continuous sidewalk there since ours is kind of in disrepair as well so we would propose to keep a landing which also needs to be reconstructed and stairs that go down to that area for people to access it but um since that parking lot needs some attention anyway it gives the opportunity to reconfigure the parking lot to move the parking back to make room for that sidewalk to continue through there so we see that is a short-term need um that could be addressed with with some of this funding another um that we've been waiting to bring before you is um Katherine and I were in discussions with the um the Walgreens property they were looking at making some safety and Ada improvements to their parking lot um and as you know that's one of our critical sidewalk deficits downtown is along 106th Avenue and so we were looking at a cost share to to insert a sidewalk there um because the city cannot put a sidewalk in until they address the grading within their parking lot um so we were having very good conversations about what a cost share would look like and getting to that project and then it kind of came a little bit to a standstill um I think Walgreens may be having some some larger corporate considerations that they're looking at now um but that was a that was a uh a project that we were looking at addressing 106 yeah we desperately need a sidewalk there and unfortunately unless we do it in conjunction with Walgreens you you can't get one in there because of the Cross slopes that they have on their site unless we were to spend money doing improvements to private property which we're not suggesting okay um at the harell Avenue area um near CAD we're in um we're in need of some improvements down there as well that um we're looking at putting in a crosswalk and doing an Uber and lift drop off off area to help control some of the traffic so this is a project that we're kind of working on doing some survey on to bring back before you and um looking at um reversing one of the one-way traffic patterns down there in that area just for a block to improve traffic flow and to help some of the valet and the drop off points um come together so we're looking at pulling that project together for you and the other one um would be a consideration on 108th Avenue would if we redo the public work yard and Pump Station we had talked about increasing the sidewalk withth along the city's property to meet the 10 ft multimodal standard um and that's something that we're trying to figure out um what we can do in the absence of undergrounding that area whether or not we can fit in there so I just wanted to talk about some of the short-term connectivity projects that we're looking at spending this money on because I know we haven't formally um adopted all of the plan yet um in terms of Pirate Alley which I know is a very popular one that we talked about um the kingfish property um we if they pursue the level of development um that that they could if they built out to their development potential they would need to do some Wastewater improvements which we believe would run down that alley so we may have an opportunity there to do a project together um to do some improvements there so we're kind of holding off on the Pirate Alley discussion until we understand what's happening along the kingfish property so there's waste water that is under that whole stretch no um they would need to construct a new Force main to to supply we don't have enough um capacity in that area where I didn't hear where would that be Mike do you want to talk about this I might I asked I guess I'll just ask the end question why couldn't we start Pirates alley at the um south end it would go all the way down to 119th before tying in so it would basically the the way that we're for seeeing and and Mike's kind of laid this out but the way that we're preliminarily seeing um their conveyance is it would be a Pirate Alley to connect in at 119th which is exactly where we were planning on doing the majority of the improvements all down that strip of Pirate Alley so it makes sense if we're going to do something if there's going to be disturbances maybe to do it together but that is further than the conversations that we've had with st from all the way up in John's Pass is going to affect that alley way all the way down to 119th I mean there's ways that they could do it without having open Cuts so when we talk about effect I I don't want to we're we're way far on in this we're we're not to that level of conversation with the property owner yet we're just saying it may behoove us to wait to have some of these you know discussions about improving Pirate Alley until we better understand what what they will need to do to support their development okay I just don't want to I mean we've we've heard a lot of ideas and plans for down there I don't want to dismiss the Credence of the potential of something actually getting going down there but I wouldn't want to necessarily wait on a what I consider a cool project to just because there's talks of something potentially happening down there y certainly agree it makes sense not to do work that's then going to be undone so certainly if we can gather some more information on that so just just a number of of projects that are in the works that could start to use some of the fund that we've been building up here um that we're that we're looking at today okay any questions on connectivity infrastructure or comments no okay um actually can I ask one on the parking lot that's down by the doggy Beach um I don't know what else to call it I don't know the name of the lot um but the Heron can we look at also the cost on a pervious so like what we did on the beach side can that be done on with that lot can um typically speaking it's better if you have more areas to do than just one if you'll recall on the other side we did both at the same time and had a grant um so I'm not sure we would want to um if we were to like pursue a grant or something I'm not sure we would want to hold back off that long to reopen That Sidewalk but um we could get a cost thank you okay all right next you have City sea wall replacement pavement management pement manag should be page 26 of the CIP there's 850 ,000 budgeted for City seaw wall replacement I have that on the following page are you missing 26 oh maybe it's out of order on the I'm going off of the the actual I'm going off of this order those must not be in order that's what we that's what I have okay pavement management 26 I think I can uh I think I can actually talk to this one CU this is more of a funding question um the past couple of years we had actually held off on uh funding the uh uh Penny and the gas tax portion in these two funds um just to build up money because we know that it's um again that economy scale $100,000 Paving job will get you 10 feet but a million dollar Paving job on scale will get you you know way more I'm talking in broad numbers here but um so that's why we we held off on this one but if you see uh over the next uh two years we actually are um fixing that and so we'll actually be putting uh 780,000 next year and then 525,000 uh the year after that so over the next five years we've got like $2.2 million in Paving money um from the penny and the uh gas tax that will be available for uh Mike's pavement man management condition assessment and the the map that's on their walls okay any questions on that no okay seaw walls um so we talked a little bit about 108th Avenue I like to think of the 108th Avenue seaw wall as three segments one being the Public Works segment one being the part in between which is kind of the Public Works G garage and a little bit of the public safety segment and the other being that parking lot down there um so we had talked about needing to do the first two segments um sooner than later um the other two which you're well aware of are 115th and 120th um in the future the next ones that we've identified that need to be done we've also talked about Kingfish whether or not um we're kind of waiting to see how that plans out plays out as well because we're going to need money potentially to to redo the bulkhead at Kingfish we also have 127th Avenue 12 4 102nd 99th and 93rd that are kind of the lowest graded um seaw walls that the city owns and maintains that need to be addressed too so not saying that with any given time we can get those all in one year by no means but those are just the next few on the list now are we waiting for Phil before we do that so we are rewriting the standards within the the seaw wall specifications to allow for the elevation and the adaptability and the cases that you cannot adapt so that you can re redo your cap in the future to provide that resiliency so that we meet the objectives in our plan okay that didn't really answer the question for me in my opinion um sorry and which so in for 115 Avenue in particular are we waiting to do that project until we can bring Phil in so we're hoping that um that those that this program is adopted by October 1st so from that regard I would say yes it's not really waiting um because we're redoing the specifications for Itor some doesn't [Laughter] like so um from 115th perspective I don't think that we can get um just looking at it preliminarily from the liar and the top of cap and the elevation of the road that we have today I don't think we can get very much height on it um but you can make it to where the sheets are adaptable so that you can come back and get that adaptability in the future with those bigger sheets in the tie box okay so that project should move forward pretty quickly after we pass Elevate we're we're the timeline that we're on right now is to get it out um to bid mid November and is that included in this 850 or has that project already been budgeted for and rolled over so that project has already been budgeted for and rolled over like with connectivity with pavement and with seaw walls we have so much ongoing work that will be needed to do year after year these are funds that are building up and you know we we put it out to bid to get our fiveyear scope and we do as much as we can each year to meet what we have in the budget that part that see all in particular as you know I've been ask we've been asking for over a year um so and we get the've been going out to bid for over a year yes we have we have um the updated uh violation segments um that were drafted by Jennifer and kind of in my report to review as of last week too about um prohibiting the use of City owned seaw walls for dropping off materials construction materials that should help also okay good any other questions on seaw walls right pickle ball anticipated all right page 31 great see there pickle ball um so roselli Park tennis courts are over 30 years old they've been been resurfaced um most a few times most recently patched this year to prevent any trip hazards that we had so they are definitely in need of reconstruction um there is a demand for pickle ball uh so talking to a few of the pickle ball players um I thought that it would be our staff's recommendation is to convert roselli Park tennis courts to pickle ball Courts at with new fencing at a cost of $232,000 um roughly $960 but so that's our recommendation I know there's been some talk about Treasure Bay and adding courts there but with the uncertainty of what we're doing at Treasure Bay I think that's a little premature however I know our courts are not orientated right um for the pickleball players and those asphalt courts and the basketball court have approximately another three to four years on their life before we have to think about reconsidering and doing some reconstruction there so our recommendation for that is to um resurface them and Reign them correctly so we can um use those for multi-purpose courts um I did get quotes on to add six courts with lights and fencing at Treasure Bay for another 241,000 and if you wanted to do Four Courts with lights and fencing it' be 168 but staff's recommendation is roselli Park this year reine Treasure Bay courts this year Well fiscal year 25 and then see where we're going with Treasure Bay before we make any decision on what we do for additional pickle ball courts there thank you for getting that estimate for new Courts at Treasure Bay because we've had several residents who have suggested adding new courts there um even in the midst of uncertainty towards the um Golf Course area we still have space where we have the shuffle board the sand volleyball a big wide open place there so there is room there that we could do pickle ball but I do so thank you for that number because that could be that is an option um I think compared to the um rehab cost of doing it at roselli um it does make sense to do that first because we already have to do something with roselli court so and we're not saying that we're not doing Courts at Treasure Bay we just need to know what we're doing at Treasure Bay before we go adding courts there because to put them in the area you were talking about we'd have to remove there's some poles there the one that the ospry lives on um you know we'd have to take out the volleyball court we'd have to take out some trees we'd have to relocate the pole so it's more than just putting more courts there we'd have to really decide what we want to do and I think we need to have a plan before we go adding anything more to Treasure Bay yeah I would agree any comments on pickle ball now I've gotten a lot of positive feedback um from the pickle ball players on on the courts of course in the back I'm G to go through um I know I'm going to go through the um all of Parks and Recreation and then I'll open it up for public comment any other commission questions or comments on pickable okay thank you I have all the others so yeah I think we're on dugouts now yes so the um as you know we've done some renovations to the ball fields most recently um the fencing we have the new lights in we're just trying to work on how to move our ospry nest and I think Mike finally got an answer so we can install our new um lights at the uh ball field but our dugouts to are in disrepair um the benches are unsafe the walls are cracking so in order to repair the um brick wall with the roof that goes over the brick wall and the bench is one structure and then to do the shade structure that covers the whole Dugout um the cost for that would be approximately um 28 or 30,000 did we not do the math oh and then one thing oh sorry sorry that yellow cell is highlighted because I I had a typo in the CIP that actually should be $750 and then also there was some um interest and I would hope that the ISA cpri civic association would still be interested in possibly um funding some murals on those um dugouts too so we're looking at painting them and hopefully with some type of design that either goes with our current mural there or baseball related great I know there was a lot of interest in sponsoring the murals um last time we did it so I'm confident that we have plenty of residents who would be willing to do that how old are the dugouts old they're the original they're actually the original Dugout so if you think about when little league played there back in the day when the Lions um actually did it they're probably 50 40 50 years old I know they've been there as long as I've lived in the city and that's like 40 plus years so okay any other comments on the dugouts okay playground upgrades okay so in this year's budget we had an ADA swing well after meeting with um former commissioner Partridge and some of the residents on Paradise they showed us um something that's more of a and it's hard to it's called a sway swing it kind of looks like an oldfashioned mirror G around but it it can be used by um children in wheelchairs and it's it's really really a a neat concept and it's something we wanted to add to the playground area by Treasure Bay so we're not spending the money on the swing this year and we wanted to budget the sway swing for next year for Treasure Bay it would be a truly Ada um wheelchair accessible piece of equipment I also just had a resident I was out on a walk the other evening and a resident in Paradise Island stopped me in their car and said that they have an ADA swing that they would like to donate to the city okay um or I think she has two of them okay some are transfer swings but this one truly the child if they could not get out of their wheelchair could utilize the piece of equipment is this the one that was sent out to everybody about a year ago yearo um right so we decided to not proceed with the one where you can transfer into the swing and do this one where the child could actually utilize it if they were wheelchair bound great thank you oh that's cool okay is the ground Ada accessible um not not so much the pirate ship I mean the surf for them to get Sur on they consider mulch oh well for the sway swing you have to put it on a concrete slab so you have to do like a sidewalk out to it and then you open so it would be yes because it has to go on concrete okay okay any comments or questions on that okay um Beach neighborhood and lot sign Replacements so the city now has some um signs our current signs are starting to deteriorate crack peel um our some of our beach access signs have been taken down um we've come up with a new design we that we be bringing for signs before the commission shortly for the new city hall sign West Causeway sign and the um Sunset Beach sign that was damaged during Hurricane in um so we're looking to start a program again to replace signs as needed not to replace everything we have but once they start damaging like the Beach Pavilion sign is again peeling um I've already had that replaced a few years back um and then the Paradise Island sign is cracked so to replace that they will be made of different material not this it's going to be easier to replace more durable um than the signs we currently have so it's it's a program to start replen in and it'll have our new city logo on it and um we'll show you the design before we proceed but we're looking to start that program again of redoing signs okay what what material will they be made of it's more of a um it's a composite yeah it's more like a a metal type with the the design on it and it'll be two-sided it'll last better than these signs these signs peel they crack they're more of a foam base like a yeah yeah so like the signs down on the beach beach drill a little bit yes but they'll they'll definitely be a little bit different it said that it was like a um I can't see an hdu material with a digital vinyl overlay yeah I did I just ate a high it's a high density type urethane or yeah it's a plastic vinyl as Stacy said okay thank you any questions or comments there Den is not allowed to help design it we actually do have a design already so we'll be bringing it forward it's a good one all right um Treasure Island Park upgrades so as you know there's been a lot of discussion about Treasure Island Park needing a um face lift for the most part um one of the pieces in this is to do a um Park plan and bring you know do surveys and Community engagements to see what is actually wanted whether we remain kind of a passive park there um or do something a little bit more we do have funds in our budget this year to replace the um Pavilion to demo the one we have and to replace another but we're not going to be doing that until we have um the actual Park plan done we'll be um carrying forward that uh Pavilion but we also have in here the the new exercise equipment we keep pushing that off and um we have a lot of people use it being at City Hall now you realize how many people actually use it and the other day the monkey bars just finally collapsed um because the equipment's like 35 years old so we do have money in there to do new exercise equipment and I had been asked probably 10 times so far when I was going to replace the monkey bar so um I keep telling everybody we have the equipment in the you know budget so hopefully we'll get that part of it done next year a $75,000 Park plan you want to answer we are currently outrageous we um that was a preliminary scope that we got that we haven't had a chance to negotiate so that that was more of a placeholder the fact of the matter is is the park needs a lot of work we've talked about the irrigation and the Landscaping needs there the Gazebo that's falling apart the exercise equipment that's falling apart and you just we would like to put them back back in a place that makes sense According to some kind of plan um so Kathy and I and Mike Baker have talked a lot about you know just looking back at the park plan and all the engagement they did just a few years ago trying to incorporate what we saw people wanted out of that Park plan so maybe not another playground but like some nature-based like playground types like stuff that kids can climb on that's interactive right um so the engagement idea that we had came up with um basically you know people being able to lay out features on a map you know like looking at what the different cost is you know we we still need to renegotiate the park plan we think that we need to have a plan before we move forward with these plan elements does that mean that we will not be parking cars for any spe for the special events well I do want to point out something just saying um after Fourth of July I looked at the day of parking there and these one or two three day in a row things are are not by any means doing damage to the park I'm it's the no offense the market every week parking during this non growing season that's doing more damage to our Park than the one or two you know times we do it for events but with that said it depends what the community wants there you know we're still looking at a more passive type with a new Pavilion maybe for you know music in the park whatever not necessarily maybe a playground but type of different elements that you can incorp at you know outdoor uh climbing apparatuses and things stepping stones and rocks and stuff for kids to do that you know when their parents maybe are at the park listening to music they have something to play on but not necessarily A a number five playground in the city um but other elements throughout the park that's you know kind of intertwined through there and then definitely having our um exercise equipment that's highly utilized and like I said since the mar milkey bars have fallen I've heard a lot of uh comments about the exercise equipment um we are going to be doing a lot of the park plan ourselves I know that Mike and I said that we could do a lot of the engagements and similar to commissioner like we did at ISA Palms you know maybe do a lot of our our different engagements but there are some elements of it that we can't do and we're still negotiating the renderings and all that so we're still negotiating down with the company before we even bring it forward to the commission yeah I would agree 75 seems a lot just to put together a plan for this park and to your credit I think you guys are good at that sort of public engagement probably better than the people we've outsourced it I think we did a wonderful job at ISA Palms I'll be a meeting again to discuss where to put the especially with Ry to discuss where to put the trees that we talked about for natural shade and stuff like that so and the Landscaping we did on uh on Seventh as well I mean that uh that was fantastic everybody's happy with oh really yeah seriously everybody I'm sure there's somebody gonna call me tonight you spoke too soon okay so do you think we need to leave 75 in there what I don't know yet how much like the renderings and stuff are what what would you feel comfortable funding it at and we'll just negotiate you know down to it this was a preliminary scope we literally just got it last week so what they were going to do is um I don't have all the elements we came Community input and all that that they would come up with whatever those renderings were based on because I did a very generic I Palms but that's very small Park rendering on my own um but actually to take you know what everything with the community saying and put it on some type of rendering for them and giving us the necessarily maybe the survey questions or elements that we need um to get out to the community but I know there was like some onsite type Community engagement that Mike and I felt comfortable about doing it but then there was also two larger Community meetings that they would participate does a plan like that is that a architect landscape architect it's a landscape architect that has um a sub they work with all the time um Quest who's who's really good and well known for Community engagement who does um the engagement piece so it's just very Interactive it was basically you know taking the elements that we've already identified out of the park master plan that are very passive in nature so not like high cost elements um and putting them at different places on a map like where do you want this gazebo to live where do you want the the shade you know for your excise equipment um would you like to have a walking trail through here um or a little you know area that may have like Terrace seating or something for music events and to play on you know so I do we do we got this we we haven't had a a chance to negotiate it because we just got it last week um we both feel that it's very high and very manageable um and that that we can bring it down significantly and we're happy to bring it down today and we'll negotiate you know and get the main thing that we know that we need out of it are the renderings you know so that we can well communicate what it could be and make sure that we're we're getting people's um concurrence with what they want it to look like how much did it come in at the the total scope was yeah like 74,000 that's you know why this isn't here it I agree with commissioner doctor and you that that does seem way except we thought so as well a third of that what do you feel comfortable with I was thinking like they think well that's what the commissioner just said so Stacy said 30 so basically but I know Mike and I feel very comfortable I actually enjoyed working with the ISA Palms the way we did it I thought that was really fun um and I think we did a good job there so this is a bigger Park 30 all right all right I'm done don't leave I'll stand here with you the next one is roadside Curbing and this is a continuation um like some of our other funds where when we're doing pavement management we have a work if the curb needs to be reset because we have the small ponding that occurs you know in front of people's houses before you keep going into that one I want to take a pause because I see the next one is West Causeway and I have a feeling that's going to create some um comment so I want to before we move on from Parks did we have any public comment on these Parks CIP items Cara hello hello my name is Cara Brown I live on uh Paradise Boulevard and uh commissioner Toth to answer your question my significant other and might save you four minutes of your time uh put in a lot of the Transformers here on Treasure Island for Duke Energy and I was texting him and he said that they last forever unless there's rust and then they'll last about 40 years so that's that my thank you also I am a golf fan I am not opposed to pickle ball because said significant other does play pickle ball three times a week and the police officer might have to investigate a murder if he did not go to pickle ball three times a week uh so with that said um I I am a little confused on the pickle ball roselli topic because I thought there was kind of an aha moment at one point in time where when the revenue at Treasure Bay and the expenses of Treasure Bay were broken down on a more finite basis and there was this oh well 70% of it is driven because of Staff related salaries that we were trying to drive more Revenue toward Revenue generating activities towards Treasure Bay that if there is one Revenue generating activity there should be all revenue generating activities so I'm just a little bit perplexed as to why we would resurface six pickle ball Courts at roselli which we don't charge for for $180,000 which is $30,000 a court or you could build six Courts for $240,000 which is $440,000 a court and if they were at Treasure Bay and not at roselli then you would be increasing Revenue so I was just a little I found that an odd conundrum but that was how I look at it and maybe people pickle ball people don't attack me um hit the balls hard at John or something um next topic we all know I have my passion project which is the golf course um I know you've heard some of the ladies recently say obviously they're not looking to recreate s St Andrew but I when I just heard someone mention that perhaps present an alternative Vision with a golf feature I'm the people that play there aren't looking for a golf feature when I hear golf feature I hear putt putt I hear something else for children I'm not anti-child at all but guess what I am as important as are the people that play there as the children residents of this and we have parks and playgrounds and playgrounds and playgrounds and I I please build playgrounds but the people that play there are just as important as the kids and all of a sudden oh a golf a golf feature just is not a replacement for Par 3 golf um I've also just heard a reference to a walking trail there not one person here is going to drive to Treasure Bay or ride your bike and take a walk on a walking trail Anita has a master's in Recreation the data is there that says people do not drive to passive activities if you want to go for a walk go on your street go for a walk and maybe if you did drive one time to go for a walk on a trail at Treasure Bay you're certainly not going to go the second time I don't see what the Allure of going for a walk on that piece of property is when you can walk in your backyard and see the same thing um sorry if I'm getting a little chippy about that no pun intended um so I also just want for the data people I love a good data point too as a reminder when the city of St Petersburg redid their courses rounds of golf played at their par three courses 42% the data is there happy to show it to you it's in all their reports so yes when the courses are nice participation increases dramatically also since 2008 municip people seem to think that golf courses are on the decline since 2008 the number of Municipal courses in the United States has actually increased 5% overall so that's what I have to say about um all of that I was a little bit mystified about redoing irrigation and Sod at the Treasure Island community park for $300,000 if we would continue to have a market there because it seems like the market people really liked and there was a lot of requests for that at the community meetings and then finally this was 2029 I I didn't see any write up on what in the heck $3.5 million is for the beach Trail extension and where why someone would want that going behind their house but thank you all right thank you all right any comments from the commission on that section you what he just have U first thing I wanted to ask is we kind of skipped over I'm hoping we will come back to the connectivity infrastructure as well as the pavement management and the seaw wall stuff with com uh public comments yeah we're that's right now okay I'm covering everything that we've talked about since the last public comment period go for them all okay yeah so um um on the um on the conductivity so you have a $411,000 carryover um from 2024 and you have another 200,000 that's budgeted for 2025 now I don't know all the specifics but I don't think the conductivity plan was ever approved I did look through it I I think I was at that workshop and there are certain elements in that I think are excellent and some some of them are fairly inexpensive and easy to pull the trigger on so um I again this kind of goes back I don't understand why we just don't defer these cost for 2025 until we've completed what we have carryover for 411,000 from the previous year so I would think that uh there should be some thought on that um we I've gone through this and and I've identified somewhere around $10 million that can be deferred in this year's in the 2025 budget because of various circumstances uh such as the Public Works building and the you know and the Transformers and all those kinds of things and trying to focus on those that need to be done um and and with respect to the um pavement management I'm not exactly sure which roads I'm glad to see that we're going to do that that I'm tired of looking at the um hot hole in front of my house that uh continues to get fixed about every 6 weeks I'm soon going to plant a plant in that in the very near future um and I would like to see more of these dollars that are related to Penny for pelis put into the true infrastructure uh needs that we have I can tell you in front of my house I have a I'm sure we're going to get into storm at some point but I have a a drain a street drain right in front of mine that four others three others run into yesterday we had a pretty good little brain water came halfway up my um driveway and it wasn't because of the tide I took pictures of all this so I could actually show you guys and you know we've got a discharge pipe that runs between my property and the guy next or the lady next door who lives who's actually lives in Zurich half the year and uh if you I've gone in the water I've looked at it you know it's an I think it's an 18inch pipe that probably has the effective flow of a 12 in now and so those kinds of things should be looked at and we should be really focusing more of our pennies for penella uh money on those kinds of things other than other stuff um and with respect to the park I as many of you know I live right across the street from um uh the is of Palms Triangle Park and Kathy and I have a history and and I can tell you that um when we when we approached that we got together um you know I started by blowing up a survey of the entire property and we took the crayons out and the pictures and we were actually able to uh hammer out a plan within couple weeks that everybody we had people out there that particular park right now is a for just a it's a neighborhood park it's not a community park and I can tell you because I live right across the street that there are anywhere from three to four dozen people that come there every single day which is um a little jab here is higher than the 17 average that go to the golf course but you know um for what it's worth um so um and as far as the seaw wall some of this does relate to 108 and so because of that uh if we're going to be doing some things as far as deferring uh items related to to the Public Works building and the whole property and maybe doing the garbage or whatever I would suggest that you kind of hold back a little bit until it's appropriate and you've figured out all of those things some of those seaw walls are in disarray and may need to be just U throwing it out there that maybe you might want to think about that just a little bit before you pull the trigger on those projects thank you for your time thank you any other public comment all right we'll move into our next little section or we'll finish out CIP so we have replaced roadside curbing sorry where I where I cut you off that that just um dovetails along with the pavement management money whenever we're um milling and overlaying or doing rehab work to a street if it needs curbing to be addressed at that time we run those projects together I'm sorry I believe that's page I'm lost as well 37 thank you 37 thank you okay any questions on roadside curbing all right West Causeway so I'd like to we've talked about this before page 39 there's nothing for this um we've talked about this before coming back to you with three options so I'd like to talk through those options um before I start talking through the details of the options I'd like to mention that what is put um within the budget and the numbers below is representing the full option um however I'd like to talk mostly about the intermediate option that we have here which is also you know Grant fundable as well um so the base option that we looked at was really to do a project that was very similar to what we did on the east side of the causeway the main difference here would be the addition of curbing um we're suggesting on the west Causeway but it's it's a lot of the same scope here so all of the Alternatives include your typical roadway construction elements storm water improvements including uh slip lining of the existing um outfall to extend service lives and uh roadway improvements um including we've talked a lot about the need to Rel landscape the area so all of these projects include a major landscape component so that we can achieve a look that's similar to the east Causeway um so the base option is the option um that we would perform that would be not including terrain modification and there's um really no grant opportunities other than potential appropriation requests that we've identified to cover a portion of that project um the intermediate option is essentially the same however we would be um increasing the elevation of the West Causeway by about a foot um and then the full option that's on here also elevates the Lanes on either side of the causeway um those go up anywhere between five and seven Ines at their average low points and it also um addresses a drainage um issue that we have on Paradise Boulevard so the first part of paradise Boulevard where that triangle is and that gazebo comes through holds some water and so this would be doing um this drainage Improvement project encompasses that area as well since we would be doing major work on the lanes anyhow so um very large project um you know there's a lot that goes into it it it really depends on how we want to approach it um our recommendation is um we need to do something we have some base failure out there now due to sitting storm water and um we could go ahead and perform a portion of the design in fy2 um to to have a shovel ready project which is what most Grant entities are looking for that said um if you did want to go with the intermediate or full option we could go ahead and um strive for a resilient Florida Grant application um and those applications are becoming due I think in the next two months with the full option talk to me a little bit about how that plays in with lev8 ti you have residential homes that are along paradise and Treasure Lanes M which is why along the Lan how do you elevate those 5 to six Ines without impacting the yeah so we can only get up to about um 3.4 and if you'll recall from the Elevate TI the ultimate you know low road elevation goal is 5'1 so you're still getting a pretty significant increase when it comes to the the storm water you know depth the resilience there 5 to S inches but it's 34 as opposed to the the 51 which is what we're striving for throughout the city ultimately so the 5 to 6 in elevation would not impact the homes you'd still have the positive drainage from the yes 5 to seven in yards to the street yes so I think treasure Lane was about five inches on average in Paradise Lane about seven on average for the increase now if we waited longer until those roads were like fully ready to elevate once more homes have elevated with that yeah you could potentially get higher or you know you come back in 30 years when you need to reconstruct anyway and you go up the rest of the way um and one of the reasons why I was saying that you might want to consider the intermediate option and coming back and doing those Lanes later is because you know we've talked a lot about being very strategic with our with our money and the lanes were um milled and resurfaced within the last two years and do not require reconstruction at this time okay who else has comments the you you start out that paragraph by saying that the uh West Causeway needs to be reconstructed so we're going to before we finalize any plans we would get some some sampling out there to determine the level of reconstruction we think that uh it would benefit from Full depth Reclamation similar to what we did on the the East Causeway um to get a new service life out of that road is ultimately what we would recommend but we would want to get the data to back that up this is such a a big project I think it's probably worth a workshop uh discussion especially to hear from some of the residents in that area whether or not they think that the timing of this is right and and whether we should spend that kind of money the other related question is what is your level of confidence in the uh uh getting grant money to cover 80% of the cost yes so um the 80% number came from our federal lobbyists we have since Gary and I have followed up with him on that Grant and he has provided us additional information because it is a newer program and it is extremely competitive that 80% Grant um so the resilient Florida one it doesn't mean that we can't go after it it means that 80% is you know not super likely uh we think that we're more likely to get the 50% off of the resilient Florida Grant and that should it should be noted too when we look at the um what's applicable to the grant certain aspects of the project are and certain aren't so even when we calculated out the 80% when we were hopeful that we could get that one there's certain elements of the project such as the Wastewater air release valves that need to be redone anyway we've carried that forward for a few years um now that need to be done um and Landscaping and and those just wouldn't be aspects of Any Grant likely that we would get so I just want to be careful about how I'm phrasing that um so we think resilient Florida is more likely um which is a 50% match Grant um we could still go after the raise Grant at the federal level and we could still potentially pair any grant that we got with um Appropriations that we've been lucky to get to so I think you know it could be a multiple Grant effort um and I'm you know I'm not sure that it's something that we would want to pursue without you know heavy grant funding of at least 50% but the sooner that we make a decision of what we want to do the sooner we can start to to go after those funds well that's far enough out there that we have time to do that the the only my only concern was spending the $876,000 next year to to get the design uh for that so when you apply for Grants they typically ask for copies of your CIP if you don't have at shovel ready um you at least need to show that you've funded you've you've got the design funded um so that's that's why we do it that way um we wouldn't go that full distance though without having a grant secured how many homes on the west Causeway flood I don't have that answer I'm sorry I know um if you look at that the repetitive loss Maps um that we looked at before it it's it's pretty good on those Lanes um and that was why we initially looked that even though the the lanes had been milled and resurfaced recently that's why we looked at well what can we get now if we were to try to help those folks out along those lanes and certainly it's not anywhere near the full elevation goal but 5 to seven Ines is nothing to sneeze at that was one of the worst hit areas in the last two storms that we did receive flooding in I can get the number of homes but I don't we had several homes along paradise and treasure that had several inches of water in their houses along the west Causeway M yes I do agree with commissioner Dicky that you know this would be a good thing to do a uh you know another workshop for because it is a lot of money the design we would still that would go out to bid that would have to be approved by the commission to actually start that design work and spend that money RQ process MH but if we kind of knew the direction that you were heading and whether that takes another Workshop or not um you know we we could talk about but um the grant applications are coming due quick or we just miss another annual cycle which is okay too I mean we can continue to to make repairs I just know that um especially when it comes to the Landscaping you know there was there was a lot of of talk there and we're kind of already pushed out to 27 I just don't want to if we don't have it budgeted for not be able to move forward if that is the result of the workshop if we decide that we wanted to move forward on that timeline we would if we don't budget for the design then we wouldn't be able to move forward with that makes sense uh I will reiterate my comments from I think our last meeting um I'm still very concerned if we were to move ahead with the um terrain modification for the West Causeway and if we're going to spend six S8 million um to do that um are we creating an island uh and by Island I mean the East Causeway is still going to be at the lower elevation and so is G BT um and we don't have a plan uh to incorporate uh I'll call it a tiered approach uh in terms of elevation and that just goes against my personal way of thinking things if if I can't project out from where I am right now to the end point which is Elevate the West Causeway and show there's a logical progression in between there for getting to it and utilizing it that then I keep scratching my head saying what are we doing so the way that I think about it um is that the six Mill ion dollar project is without elevation and that's not Grant fundable there's nothing attractive about that project whereas if we spent you know the 7.8 we could potentially get the majority of that project covered 50% the other way that I think about it as a whole for a city if we look at if if somehow you know by the year 2100 we're able to get 24 miles of the city's own roadways up to 5.1 I just can't fathom a world where we couldn't figure out how to do the last two and a half or three somehow I mean that well yeah but again we're looking at ourselves as a as an enclave and we have to look at what's going on in Treasure excuse me madira beach we have to look at what's going on in St Pete we have to like look at what's going on on Sunset Beach um excuse me beach um and there's got to be an integrated approach to this because otherwise we're kidding ourselves I think there will be we just happen to be ahead of the curve if you're going to do it do it not will be and not a hope none of that stuff if we're going to spend 7891 million and more then we ought to have a definitive plan to go from where we are right now to 2100 and maybe that plan isn't straight maybe there's a branch if this happens we do this this happens we do this if the sea level rise this much then we do this but it's dependent upon what our neighbors do don't you agree with I do I just they could they their Commissioners or their Council people could be saying the same exact thing fine then all get together and do it well that's the point of that's why we have the support of the Tampa Bay Regional planning council is they're trying to orchestrate all of that so someone has to someone has to start the process well they've already started it we need to move on so um I just don't have a clear path in my head if as to how we go from where we are to where you're envisioning I understand I think from our professional recommendation is that the west side of the causeway needs attention similar to the attention that we gave the east side and that's an expensive project no matter how you cut it and Stacy you're saying with or without train modification correct that's correct okay any further comments or directive do we have do you have guidance on what we need to do um we could certainly hold another workshop and maybe um you know during that time we could we could request you know we could advertise it more and try to get some more feedback of what people are thinking particularly the people who live along those those lanes that are impacted by you know some of these lower level flooding events um you know causing them to be in those repetitive loss areas today so what's the consensus on leaving the design in the budget for this year here I think we should leave it leave it i' like out and we have the ability to put that to add it back in if we needed to right through a budget amendment yeah we can always I mean subject to available funding we can always uh do a budget amendment and um yeah reappropriate but it being in its own storm water fund means it's probably U more doable than it would be for some of the other funds in multiple funds no but this is all it's all yeah okay um clear we have three people that have said take it out you understand that that means we won't be able to apply for any grants for it this coming year no right now no in this future year she said that in order to get apply for a grant they need to see it in our CIP that we have it planned for can we not put it in our can we not put it in our CIP and November the grants are due I think in uh September the applications you just missed one year of the cycle it's not that we can't do it we just miss that Grant cycle so we're in August right now when grants would be they're coming be submitted by September it's I believe it's sometime in September yes well we wouldn't have the design by September to to make the you you don't have to have the full design you have to show that you're funding the design that the design is funded because what they're really looking for are shovel ready projects and obviously a project that's not designed is not shovel ready but when they see that you have the design budgeted and that you've made that commitment then they're able to use that as you know proof that you're moving forward with the project it's just one year we can wait yeah just deny it this year we come back next year yeah that's fine we don't try for the grant this year we try for it next year or if I me you know budget doesn't mean spend you know you could go out and include it in your CIP apply for your Grant and if you don't get the grant you don't have to expend the funds we would not anyway yeah we would it's so much money that you wouldn't expend the money yeah without having a grant it's a place holder for eligibility so let let me follow fle that then you're saying we could we could budget the money ask for the grant but not actually spend that $876,000 that's correct if we see that we're not going to get the grant correct okay all right I will change my vote to supporting that let me ask question if we would get the grant at 50% how much would we actually have to spend uh if we took the grant well you spend the whole thing and then you get reimbursed for eligible activities up to 50% okay but how much and if we don't do it how much is is going to take uh for us to put in to get that 50% match or what it's up to yeah all I'm doing is trying to figure out what point at what point is this going to cost us a million dollars extra $2 million extra $3 million extra two and a half million plus 876 if you get the 50% if you get the 50 if you get the 50% so you're going to spend three million right is that that's what intermediate are you looking at intermediate are you looking at full intermediate 50% so we're only talking about construction dollars and we're not talking about anything regarding um landscaping or the Wastewater work that we would do while the road was torn I didn't ask it very clearly but how much sorry how much are we going to have to spend that we hadn't committed in the following year I I'm not understanding the question okay here's your answer is right here that we hadn't committed in the following year with the intermediate option Rehabilitation with terrain modification on the west Causeway leaving paradise and treasure lames at their existing elevation the design and construction estimate that's an 80% we're talking about 50% of eligible construction cost I'm I'm sorry you're right the intermediate okay um as the numbers guy I I'll jump in here I asked Stacy which of the costs of that that full amount that's in FY 27 which of those would be reimbursable and this is high level I actually have a spreadsheet that details that out to much more finite painting just painting with broad brush broad Strokes just looking it would just be those first two items that would be Grant reimbursable 50% at 50% so that would be 3.7 uh$ 3.78 million would be the would be the net out of pocket that the city would be at okay but I do have more I yes plus your design cost that's just construction but I do have a better breakdown that's that shows those line items and what they are what's eligible okay but that's approximate that's that is but again compared to 6.1 if we go with the base option of not doing any sort think about how expensive the East Causeway was plus we did the Landscaping separately on top of it for the whole medium plus we're you know five years later now it's you know that's about what it's going to be without terrain modification well a couple things you're saying West Causeway needs to be reconstructed or rehabilitated it it it definitely does need spot Rehabilitation we're going to figure out what the extent of that is we're going to get core sampling and and figure out what the extent of that base rehab is um and a lot of times if it's you know over you know 30 40% you want to come through a lot of times and do FDR like full depth Reclamation because it's just expensive to do these big areas um of construction than it is to have the machine come through and do the whole thing so we would walk through that analysis just like we did on the east side to figure out what's most advantageous um but this number this 6.1 does contemplate the full the full depth of reculation and at this time we do not have that data uh with which to put together a cost estimate that is part of what goes into this design so it you'd go out there and get your survey and get your um Geotech first and that's the 875,000 no that's full design services including construction management Inspection Services during construction how much is it for just going out and getting the soil borings and I can come back to you with that okay so we don't know that at this point in time I think I do I just don't have the number in front of me okay I'll take that I mean obviously I don't have the number because we haven't done the RFQ to select the consultant who we negotiate with to get the cost but I have an approximation of what that number is yes okay and then to get to become Grant eligible do we have to spend 875,000 no we do not how much do we have to spend we just need to apply for the grant have it in the budget apply for the grant so we have some Grant ad the reason we have some Grant Administration and application cost in here so we may have to draw up some figures to supply with the grant so we're talking nominal you know $5,000 if we need assistance pulling together those figures and stuff to include in our Grant application but that's it and if we're successful and getting a grant depends on how much it is obviously there's still going to be a contribution required on the city's part right we pay for the whole thing and then they reimburse up to 50% of eligible costs for construction and you know how long that takes reimbursement not uh reimbursement is the quick part the state the state has actually been pretty good with uh uh Grant reimbursements here the past couple of years so this is all state grant money not fed money so the 80% that we originally proposed in here is Federal grant money and doing more investigation into that we think that that's a much harder source of money to go to to get awarded we can still go after it but it's a longer shot than we feel that resilient Florida is and that's a state Grant okay thank you okay do we have consensus to leave it in so that we are can apply for the grants yes commissioner dicki commissioner to I'll support that you guys still no don't want it okay so we'll leave it in and if it needs to come we'll talk about it again and again probably I guess if we are leaving it in and we're going after a grant we we would need to talk about it again so we would I would need direction on which option to go after the grant for you know if we wanted to do the intermediate or the full intermediate I think so not looking at the lanes yeah well commissioner Toth commissioner dicki thoughts on that one comment on that um I was going to do the the rest of the agenda Al together I know okay what was do we have any thoughts on intermediate versus full I'm just looking real quick at the difference in the price so this I'm concerned about the paradise and treasure Lane so I'm not really I think I'd prefer the intermediate that makes sense how is treasure B Lane does that flood this both of them do yeah intermediate doesn't um it it does it does increase the drainage capacity like the piped drainage capacity of the lanes all of these options do but it doesn't provide the terrain modification on the lanes unless you do the full option that's the difference and we can come back and talk about this again we don't have a lot of time so it would have to be a soon Workshop but if you wanted to to think about it more we could come back yeah I definitely think we need another workshop on that it's a lot of money yeah and a lot of things need to be considered and more people need to be heard about it okay including I think right now or or not right now but when you're ready the rest of the okay well I can I'll take the public comment was it you Greg and I I guess I'll start by saying I am new to this kind of Grant but I I've dealt with a lot of Grants and what I just heard was that you put a number on a piece of paper you apply for a grant and then they give it to you I mean it seems to me like the process is really going to be you apply for a grant with a you sure it's in the budget you put it and then they're going to ask for they're going to say yeah you guys are a great candidate then there's a bunch of work to be done to actually get a grant I mean I I don't believe we're going to get anywhere by having it on a piece of paper without having to spend a bunch of that money I mean maybe I'm wrong but intuitively I don't think they're going to give out a grant when you say it's in the budget it's I think it's going to take more than that okay thank you we've already done a lot of that leg work and um when we were looking at the watershed management plan and looking at this as a pilot project and looking at um going out for Grants previously is that how we did the East Causeway no the East Causeway um the grant that we received there was a um a CFI Grant through Swift Mud for water quality and um that grant program has changed and um such that that source of money isn't available for these types of projects anymore thank you I just couldn't remember what kind of Grant we had we have had a resilient Florida we have a resilient Florida grant for the living SE Shoreline right and for the vulnerability ass been through that before so what is the preliminary leg work before so the preliminary leg work like I mentioned is um you come up with detailed cost estimates you have multiple writeups IT addresses different parts of the scope um we've done um we prepared to do an appropriation request on the west Causeway before um we've looked at it and as part of our um long-term storm water management through our watershed management plan um we've we've broken down the estimates that's how I was able to pull together these numbers and how I said I could come back to you and and rework those based on a 50% and what's eligible and what's not based on which option you want to go through we've done a lot of the leg work is my point to it there's a little bit more that we'll need to do just to um to pull together some of those figures but it's not like we're just showing them this piece of paper and that's our Grant application no we we do a lot of work and we're familiar with what that work entails thank you right okay I I gotta say I'm first of all I got a question that that maybe uh you can answer after I've talked uh what is the I don't know what the final aspirational goal elevation is for the West Causeway but I'd like to hear that for the record as to where you're trying to get to I know that that particular section is low also you guys have heard me up here before and I've sent some Communications out about drainage on that particular Road especially on the south west quadrant and I even sketched out some drainage possibilities that you could uh employ but I'm a little bit confused because we have this thing called Elevate TI and what I heard from those is we want to keep until the people on the sides have done their work I also know as an engineer that sometimes you got to have certain storage volume for your rain and uh so I realized in a really bad storm or you know a hurricane or whatever that those roads may be uh impassible in some way um but until you get these people on the sides I mean I I have some friends that live there and um th their their houses were built a good while back and so they're not at the 7.6 as far as their driveways and what have you and so there's going to be some real struggles there and so I would U suggest strongly before spending a lot of money on engineering and surveying and CI that's shown in here is that um that maybe you have a workshop and you fully understand this particular stretch of road because it's it's it's really really important and I always go back to the what I've always said many times up here it's about getting the cart before the horse so understand understand where you're going with this and so you can and so you can flush it out and make sure that you're making the right decisions before you go and spend a whole bunch of money on the on the engineering and The Architects and all these other things I don't know how many times we've seen this I mean this is crazy we've seen this way too many times in the city so I think you ow it to the residents to not just go forward on this thing until you've fully vetted it and make sure you know where you want to go so M I hope that you guys will stop for a minute reconsider what you guys were just discussing and maybe have some more discussion while I go sit down all right any others okay let's finish out CIP so we have moving into the vehicles I believe storm water next one actually be a waste water um oh yeah there oh yeah there was one other storm water J Trailer oh yes jedar yeah this is a this is to um allow us to uh to clean more of our storm water uh system so this jedar is uh is just a Jetter um trailer with the Jetter pump and everything on the end instead of having to take our vac truck out there to do storm water we keep our vac truck for the um the sewer system and then the Jetter would be for storm water they can be inter interchangeable but we would basically start out with the Jetter for storm water if the if the uh back truck went down we would then be able to use the Jetter uh to unclog um sewer lines so it's a dual use but it's going to be majority is theet it's for storm water okay any questions all right Wastewater relining oh physical server this one's just a uh I can yeah I can it's an oute um it's just a life physical service will be reaching into life in a couple of years okay Wastewater reining okay on this uh we have a federal appropriation uh grant that we've applied for uh which is a uh uh we have to match it by 300,000 it's a $1.2 million operations and I don't know it's in the bill right now so unless it gets xed off so so far we're pretty confident that we will be getting that and then it's 300,000 each year afterwards and then every five years five to six years we do a smoke test uh to see if we have any illegal connections to our uh sewer system the last okay any questions on that I'm sorry okay forcan replacement okay uh for man Construction in the um on Pump Station 8 n and 10 which are in the Ala Capri those all come together at First Street North and um they combine into a 8 in ductal iron pipe that has been in the ground since the 50s late 50s early 60s it's ductal iron and we're going to replace that with um PVC all the way up to the bridge on the other the bridge when they rebuilt the bridge they put hpde across the bridge on the other side of the bridge we have already replaced uh from the bridge to Gulf Boulevard with PVC so that'll be the last of the force mains um in the city now the Force main that takes everything out of here is still ductal iron of course but inside the city limits that will be the last of our ductal iron that's good and I'll take any questions any questions on that probably better to replace it before it collapses on itself okay I'm sorry what was that I said it's probably better to replace it before it collapses on itself we have to do it an emergency yes that's what we did with the last half we will be bringing that to you right after the first of the of in October once we get the budget approved I'll be coming to you um to um to fund the the construction design is almost finished all right and I think vehicles is the last these are out projects yeah so these are uh this is just the uh U vehicle replacement list scheduled for the next uh five years um where you see uh new in that left column um would be any vehicle that um is being recommended to be added uh to the fleet so everything else is just a replacement of an existing item so just kind of drawing uh some attention to the the uh new vehicles um the police department has recognized that while they um do have the take-home Vehicles now uh they don't have any redundancy um so if any of the uh current uh police vehicles are out of service um with the vehicles being at their residence if it's somebody whose day off there there's not a a a floating basically a a police vehicle for them to use um not to uh speak for them but this could also be if that third parking position is added it could also U perhaps be used a little bit temporarily until we figure out um if a permanent vehicle would be needed for that third parking person um let's see uh the code enforcement vehicle which I mentioned earlier um again we'd be going out for a similar electric model uh just because it's it's a vehicle that never leaves the city so we're not too worried about the range of it um so that one that one was one of the that was the first one that we uh purchased um and so far has been um a pretty good purchase I I um I haven't heard too much negative about it so um replacing that with a light kind um and then uh jedar trailer which Mike mentioned um the solid waste side loader which was mentioned earlier and then the other new one and with Mike and Stacy up here they can talk about this um a request to add a new vehicle that would be used as a pool car um with the um addition of another Public Works supervisor the one pool car that we did have is now being used by that supervisor um and so that leaves nothing for the rest of City staff should we have to go to an off-site meeting something along those lines um and I'll if if Mike and sayy have anything else to add uh to that that's U that's that's the nature of the request for that one we used to have two vehicles in the city um I think like five six years ago and since that time just due to the addition of Staff both of those um cars got um taken up by Public Works supervisors um one of which um that explorer that Mike mentioned number 216 which is a 2008 is one of those old pool cars that's being used by a supervisor um for facilities now that has a number of issues with it um so it definitely needs to be replaced and then um the other one with taken up by our uh grounds uh supervisor and I I'll say that the uh the current pool uh Explorer is a 2008 and is actually the oldest vehicle outside of the bus or the antique vehicles that the city owns all right any questions or comments on the vehicles okay um any public comment on what we just covered Andrew thanks so um my comments are overall for CIP so when we were thinking it was going to be done is that group three relates to that um and on the 25 budget um one uh I think I mentioned before we got the 47 Pages yesterday so worked on it last night so would' like to see Pres next cycle um try to get out ahead on that I appreciate you mayor previously suggesting us to get involved earlier in the uh timeline but we also would need the documents so um appreciate that um the this budget has um some unnecessary spending and some some disjointed relationship to the projects going forward and if you're going to keep growing government then going ahead and approving this $18 million Capital program is a good way to go on record that you're going to keep doing that we have looked at the1 18 million that's in the 25 budget and we see about $10 million of that $18 million that could be deferred and to be specific about it the the big chunk is the Public Works building because that's $8 million you want to look at the solid waste as to what you're going to Outsource that has an impact on public works and of that six of that $8 million6 million is a bond issue that if you just don't do the bond issue it has the appearance of the largest chunk of deferral although you're really looking at The Debt Service that would come up on that but there is um 4 million doll in the 25 capital budget that's pay you go money that could be deferred as an effort towards reducing the level of spending in the for the government here um the in there there's the two million in public works which we which we talked about the looking at the 650 on the Transformer to get Duke to play ball uh commend Stacy for for doing that because getting Duke to realize that there are other uh revenues that can be generated and quite frankly by looking at a master plan on 108 Street you could be a contributor to that because the activity that you do there will generate more for Duke and get Duke to do the upgrade themselves we we we have that happen all the time with utility companies um the 650 on the canopies that relates to public works and then um the 610 on contingency which is just a straight ad to money because this thing has been perking along inflation's running up construction costs so now they just loaded another 610 into the budget that isn't coming out of the bond issue it didn't get loaded into the 6.1 that's been there it's now outside of the bond issue as a direct pay okay the marina um we talked about as well that's also a direct pay um would not want to see that deferred though if as Stacy mentioned you would lose your sublease um to to be able to have boat slips there I think that's a very important feature of the ReUse of 108 Street um connectivity infrastructure you got 41,000 that's rolled over I I hear we might do this we might do that whatever it looks a lot it feels like a slush fund right now that it's just a way to pick up projects as they come along governments do that but there are other ways to do it but the 200,000 in connectivity this year you got it rolling out for another 800,000 over the next four for a million you already got 411 in the bank it just doesn't look like something that's necessary from a budgeting point that keeps that government growth that you're doing at 10 12% a year um the side loader garbage trucks we talked about that's 830,000 and again that's something that could be deferred especially with what you're looking at for the ReUse of 108 and for the Public Works building and whether you're Outsourcing so um we're looking at that uh overall in the capital you have 18 million in if you deferred 10 you still have 7.8 million that stays in the 25 budget to be executed that's all the seaw walls that's uh you know a number of of those other things but we're looking for action taken by the commission as you get through this board to start to control that rate of spending that has resulted in a 50% increase in government since 2021 thank you thank you any other public comments on the vehicles or the CIP as a whole CIP as a whole um although the vehicles which Andrew had mentioned uh with respect to the side uh side loaders so I just want to recap on a couple things when I went back and looked at my notes um the West Causeway there is a carryover of the landscaping for 10000 ,000 and I think that kind of ties into again so we have this money that's come over and ties into what you're going to do on the west Causeway I I know that I've been asked by a couple people you know to bring that up I'm not sure I got an answer on what the goal is for the elevation on West Causeway I think that's an important number are we talking about you know six Ines are we talking about 2 feet what are we talking I have a feeling that's closer to two feet um just want to remind everybody there's $1,110,000 in a carryover for the public uh Works facility design and City Hall demo so again this is going back to what I had mentioned earlier which is you you still got a whole bunch of work to get done in order to even move forward on the lift station and the public works and I would I would strongly suggest that you decouple those two and get the and get the lift station done and figure out all these other things that could possibly happen on 108 um you still have a $550,000 carryover for seaw wall now I'm getting a little confused on the seaw walls because I don't know what that one was for whether this is duplicate what we're asking this year what specific spots so I would I would suggest that you guys get some more information from City staff to determine where those are and maybe even have a workshop and we're making sure that you do these seaw walls cuz they're expensive and they have a certain life and all that you're doing the right thing and make sure that that all dovetails with Elevate TI as well conductivity which I had mentioned I I heard um Andrew mentioned too again you got 411 carryover it would be interesting to know I like I said I I had looked at that and there was some really good stuff as far as connecting certain sidewalks extending the Beach Trails all those kinds of things figure out which are the good ones I'm not a big fan of whole Pirate Alley thing I I've walked down that way many times and we kind of enjoy walking down there the way it is today um and and against there's some penny for pelis for the um seaw walls and you know and I guess with respect to the Treasure Bay burm and what have you the living seaw wall that that's going to be rebid and maybe we'll have some more to talk about that at a later date so those are my comments for now thank you thank you any other comments okay um any concluding comments for CIP from the commission I did want to just rewind to the um West Causeway real quick because just after considering it a little bit more as we've been hearing other things um just based on the narrow time frame that we do have to apply for a um Grant and also the higher voting threshold that we'll need to pass a budget we have two Commissioners there that are not comfortable with moving forward with that so I don't want that to compromise the budget as a whole so I'm fine with leaving that out we can push that off another year give ourselves some more time to really figure out what we want to do there if that's good with everybody is that okay with commiss Dicky okay only I'm concerned with the West causeways it is our main way in and out yeah and we need to make sure that road is well taken care of we'll be in a You' seemed okay with postponing it another year okay okay not going to provide or cause any existential threat to accessing the island hopefully if we end up like santelle Governor DeSantis will come rescue us all right um let's hope not right and what does that mean we can ask Stacy Stacy in the CIP the uh Treasure Island Golf Course reconstruction was not included in what we just went through on the CIP so what does that indicate it just indicates that it was budgeted in a prior year okay so there's probably there's a you have a CIP like page project page for that it's just not in here because it's not a new project project okay all right so we've gone through CIP do did you want to go back to the oh we're going to do the utility funds yes I wanted after the Fe schedule yeah I just wanted to see what the uh the consensus of the commission was if we wanted to reorganize that now that Mike and Stacy are sitting right here we can go ahead and knock out the uh utility funds um sure and then um don't know long term the only other major item I had was the fee schedule um if we're kind of lingering a little bit I I'm more than happy because it seems like we might have another uh be coming back to you at a workshop before the budget's adopted anyways um I you know unless Chuck is uh opposed to it I'd be I'd be okay with coming back and discussing the fee schedule at like a budget Workshop or at a at a workshop event after a commission meeting if just just for time I'm throwing it out there if if the commission is uh is concerned no this is last year's budget right okay but where is it going forward or is it anywhere so vice mayor doctor's question is again about the golf course reconstruction so we had it budgeted last year that's just rolling forward right we have the funds for it it's in yeah the the the allocation that we have for the golf course that was budgeted in FY 24 is unspin as a result of the canceling the cont or rejecting all bids and going back out U the rebid um cor I'm R Stacy strips out the golf course and the ad alternates so I think we're at a a TBD as to um what we want to do for the golf thank you that that's all I need and and as far as um what the commission desires to do at year end um I can I can treat that money in a couple of different ways so I I can go ahead and Roll It Forward and carry it forward to next year so that it's available October 1st or we can let it fall back to fund balance at the end of this year and if and when the commission ever decides if there is something out at the golf course that they would desire to do would require a budget amendment but the money would still be sitting in the penny for panella's fund balance ready for whatever we want to allocate for it okay but we will be having a workshop item to bring all of that back here before the end of the fiscal year great thank you all right I think that makes sense to do the utility funds now so we'll skip down to number five yes and um I know uh uh CDD is in the building uh but just I I'll go ahead and just cover some of the the building fund stuff uh where does sorry any fit [Music] into just in if we're back in the spiral down notebook 77 is where Penny have we already basic just gone P all capital so we covered that with the CIP does anyone have any questions on that those pages in the spir pages in The spiral notebook 79 just a penny for pelis overview no I just they're all like Mike said they're all they're all CIP items just a Consolidated view of what's coming out of Penny yeah that's the only thing we can spend out of Penny is uh some limited Capital stuff so this is basically just a summary of all the projects we've discovered or we've uh discussed um over uh the next five years okay gas tax we already discussed as a result of that the only thing that comes out of that is the uh pavement management uh the transportation trust fund I'm hoping to well once the multimodal uh fee comes in we'll be able to kind of resurrect this fund a little bit but for now it's U effectively mothballed until we can uh reactivate it and then uh down to the building fund so there's a not too much um in this we we have increased the rates in the fee schedule uh to be commiserate with the increase um in the uh Building Services rates and that that contract will be coming for the commission uh Tuesday um it's it's um we cooked in a no more than uh that's one of the contracts we actually do have a CPI inflator in and um it's uh coming in at 3% so we've added 3% on the revenue side so that uh it doesn't go underwater uh the building fund is is looking in in I I strategically do this a little bit um in the five-year view to show that we we slowly spin down fund balance out of the building fund precisely because of the state law change so I like demonstrating that over the five-year period we do have uh we're not amassing more fund balance in that fund than what we would be allowed to do but each year we update and make sure that the rates um match the match our expenses on a year-to-year basis okay any questions on the building fund okay Debt Service fund debt Serv we'll take public comment on all of these funds at once at the end uh Debt Service is really just a a Clearing House fund um any sort of debt that's paid um from across a couple of departments so like with the Public Works building being allocated um rather than making those payments directly from the funds um it's G away best practice to have an act a Debt Service fund that runs all of these repayments through um so this is just reflective of the current uh debt payments that are paid for prid from out of the general fund um and the proposed uh debt that's scheduled uh in FY 25 and 27 for the public works and Public Safety buildings the only other costs are the issuance costs and roughly the rule of thumb is 1% so you'll see the 61,000 is 1% of 6.1 and 880,000 is 1% of of 8 million so those are just uh uh amounts in there that are based on U A good rule of thumb for dead issuance and that's uh that's all we have in that one okay any questions all right waste waterer good all right Mike um I can kind of go over these some of these high level um reviews but if you guys just want to go through um your stuff okay um so basically just uh there was increase in personal services um due to changes made in uh personnel and midwide or made mid FY 24 um many are due to health plan uh Health election changes so there were a number of people who uh elected a more expensive program in the most recent open enrollment so this just reflects that uh increase in the estimated cost paid to the City of St Petersburg for processing costs that's a 10% increase over the fy2 24 projected actual um a decrease in operating cost due to the restu reduction in the admin fee and this is this is basically $200,000 of rate relief uh being provided to the Wastewater fund uh reduction in capital budgets due to the onetime nature of the master lift station in 24 again that'll be carried forward um so that that project can be completed and then just an overall decrease in expenses related to the one-time refund to the general fund uh Wastewater fund just on paper um got a cash loan from the general fund and this is just uh it was paid back in fy2 24 so that's just uh reflective that that's that was a one-time expense and then everything else is you know there's a lot of operating cost that's in Wastewater and there's a fair number of personnel so the normal increase and decrease of 119,000 and is is uh sounds kind of large but I'll let Mike and Stacy go through uh any particular details they might have okay any questions all right Solid Waste feel like we've uh already haven't we already talked about this one today like we have all right so the uh increase in operating expenses related to recurring maintenance issues with their aging Fleet while we are scheduled to uh potentially replace uh two of these vehicles next year um in the meantime the lead time is going to take a while for them to come in and the repair cost of those Vehicles has been um increasing steadily the past couple of years um a just a mark of cost going up and B just a mark of those Vehicles getting older um a $65,000 increase related to the replacement of the two side loader garbage trucks for residential collection um and then an increase in other expenses related to the uh transfer of capital projects for solid waste portion of the awnings and the garage demo so that 154 is the um Solid Waste portion of the of those canopies in the demo okay and everything else falls under a normal increase decrease all right any questions or comments all right storm water storm water again we I felt like we talked about this one a little bit too um reduction in capital expenses due to the one-time nature of the 1.2 million um allocate an FY 24 as a match for the resiliency projects we knew that whenever the resiliency money came out of the state a couple of years ago that storm water was going to be probably the the best and easiest fund to match dollars with so we had started a uh a little seed money to um get some money in in this fund to as we've mentioned before to get Grant matches um it always helps it's one of those kind of things that doesn't make a lot of sense but you can get more money if you have more money uh so by showing that in there allowed us uh to be more competitive for some of those grants and then there's an increase in other expenses again this is the uh storm Waters portion for uh the awnings and the garage demo and then just a normal $20,000 increase is the balance okay any questions all right City facilities all so City facilities this is the uh as I mentioned previously this is basically just the capital fund uh that we created for U the city hall project um and so we're keeping it alive uh because gfoa not only has you have a Debt Service fund for all the repayments of debt they also um strongly encourage you to have a capital fund that tracks the uh Grant to those debt proceeds so we have one fund that repays the debt and we have another fund that that expends the proceeds from that debt and that's basically what this fund does so you see the uh the 6.75 million so that's the public works construction plus the uh canopy demos uh in 25 there's nothing in 26 and Then followed up by 27 the uh Public Safety construction and then in 28 the demo of the old public safety building so that's uh that's basically the entirety of the capital projects fund okay questions comments all right Golf Boulevard and this one's uh kind of interesting because they actually gave us two years of money this year so we will just whatever the balance is in that fund at the end of the year will just be carried forward and that will be the uh end of the uh Gulf Boulevard Underground in this for this penny at least all right how far are we going to get on that project as of right now um Duke Energy is probably almost at onethird complete of the undergrounding and then they'll come back and they'll have to do the light the the street lights get them undergrounded and then we've got to get the um cable companies to Underground right now I am in talks with uh Charters Spectrum on their undergrounding port part of it they have given us a binding cost estimate I'm trying to get them paid but until they sign an agreement to do the work I can't even get them paid but you'll it's about $400,000 that we have outstanding that will be reimbursed they just have to sign the agreement and then I'll pay them and then they'll go and do the the work we're GNA have I think $2.3 million left over of that and uh at this point they will not allow us to use that money for any other uh purposes we've asked I I put a whole paper together to see if we couldn't get the um 108th undergrounded and down the rest of the downtown area um on as you come across Fusion and the county turned me down until they figure out what other um what other costs the other uh communities have that they may go over their budget we came under ours um by 2.3 million so but part of it is because we focused on undergrounding and not the beautification portion so so all the undergrounding is done now well no I mean they're still working on the last half they're about a third of the way from the last the north section is completed right from 107 we have this part being done by Duke Energy they're about a third of the way done on the second portion and then we've got all the undergrounding and the lights on the half end so at that point it will be finished yes okay is there button money sufficient funds available to finish that off yes okay yeah we'll have $2.3 million left over after all that after it's all finished yeah but the other communities have a shot at that money yeah all right any other questions on the utility funds do you have any public comment on the utility funds of course uh yes Mark hoey 225 104th Avenue number 110 you all have that uh just go back to the uh it's an odd one it's in the storm water funds but I I only found it come up in a couple of places and it is develop storm waterer credit program we're going to spend $44,000 I don't know what it is and I guess that's what my question is what what is a storm warm water credit program does it transfer funding around or what so that's my question thank you any other comments all right would staff like to address that question um when we did the storm water rate study um about a year ago the commission asked us to look into implementing a credit program for Best Practices um where basically um property owners could reduce their rate based on implementing like low development impact projects um and so that is something that um a lot of cities have um so we were asked to go back and take a look at that okay thank you sure are you still time follow uh so the 44,000 is what you were setting aside to credit property owners or it's develop a program it's to um add to the Land Development regulation um the provision to to provide credit for implementing certain types of projects so it's a whole analysis um that goes it's like a second part to the rate study because your rates always have to be even and they have to so yeah has nothing to do with the administrative it's developing the rules right and guide okay yeah all right we will does the commission want to um take up the fee schedule now or Mike had mentioned so yeah there was there was one other thing and I'm actually going to see if Jessica will come up here I had mentioned it earlier that we um that I'll be we'll be bringing to you between now and the uh adopted budget a slight adjustment to the hourly uh staff um and Jessica can uh can talk a little bit more about that and um i' also mention the the uh fire and police um director or chief and uh assistant director of fire um excuse me um of a um adjusting their salaries based on the compression from the uh two collective bargaining agreements so I'll uh I'll turn it over to her real quick hi thank you so we started looking at the hourly rates for uh Public Works employees first and this is this has been an ongoing thing and like I said we are fortunate enough right now to be in a situation where we are looking at retention as opposed to recruitment but that was not the case when I first got here um and that is something that I think every city is is up against at this time so we started looking at uh the different rates in the different cities understanding that we can't necessarily compete with like a clear water or a Largo however if we lose people that's where they're going so we had to see how we could get our employees to like we could still be attractive and keep them um so we've done a lot of things um to stress like all of our ancillary benefits and those types of things and while we couldn't do an entire pay study because those cost upwards of 3040 $50,000 um we did a a small one I reached out to all the HR directors in penel county and said hey these are all of our positions and what are you paying so we did that comparison and pretty much what we came up with was since we are now in a retention phase which like I said is great um what we're proposing as opposed to just a 3% gwi with the potential for another 3% in Merit to do a 5% gwi for the hourly employees to try to keep them in a Range that is still somewhat competitive with our other bigger counterparts uh the ones who can spend a little bit more money than we can so um so the 5% and then still with the potential of getting a 3% Merit um the 5% does include so it's not like a 5% plus the 3% gwi it's just a flat 5% um we are not addressing salaried employees right now because with the new flsa laws that are coming out in July or I'm sorry in January we don't know what the impacts are going to be yet so it's going to depend on a lot of things legislation is not set in stone for that yet and we don't know what the overall cost impact is going to be so we would like to address that at a later date uh Mike and I have already figured out that once this budget is done and everything is set then we're going to go start looking at all of our salaried employees and see start pretty much forecasting the different potential um costs that we're going to have associated with that we don't know the result of your comparison with other cities that were Bel were below other cities we if we're not below then we're one of the lowest of them so it just um like I said in order to retain because clear water just had a a big jump St Pete is is always looking at theirs Largo um is looking at dun Eden just had a big jump so um St Pete Beach is getting ready to have another one or have one because they just got done with a pace study um so we're just trying to kind of keep up with everyone at this point it is is that just the ranges that you compared or were you comparing actual like averages so say a utility maintenance one is a range from 1591 to 2404 is that where you comparing our top and bottom range to other cities or were you taking an average of all of the um rate that we're actually paying utility maintenance one employees and compare that to an average of what other emplo I did both yeah I did both so I looked at the top and bottom range and then I also just looked at the average really what I did was I looked at the average of the cities that I thought we compared to the most but an average of the top and bottom or actual payments nover actual rates that people are paying their employees okay I see what you're saying so no I didn't go that in depth um so I took the starting pay for all of them because when I first started this we were in a recruitment phase so when I first started it I was really just looking at what are we starting at compared to what others are starting at and I took the ones that I thought we most compared to the ones that I thought we could probably compete with the most like the some of the smaller agencies and then just average that out of what the kind of what overall everyone is starting off with and then I looked at where we're starting so I kind of just if you're looking at starting pay that's someone that's coming in with no EXP experience in that position not necessarily um because we will consider experience however looking at the but these are kind of starting pay positions for the most part so we will take experience into and we have those already built in so we've got like utilities maintenance one two and three so if you have no experience whatsoever we can bring you in as a one but if you have experience like we just brought somebody in with 20 plus years of experience from pelis Park we brought him in as a three so we will take that it's already buil into at the botom of the range for that or not necessarily you might start someone who comes in at a two in the middle of the range or do you always start them at the bottom of the range not at the bottom but we also won't go we won't go to the middle either because we're always looking at compression and because we have so many new employees it we really have to take into account if we're going to give any sort of experience bump that experience needs to be significant we need to see how it's impacting our other employees as well because if we have a 2 to threee employee who started off at the base and they're still they've just been kind of going through the the gwi and the merits and that kind of thing we want to take into consideration what they're still bringing to the table plus what the new person would be bringing in so we're always looking at that if you're looking at retention you're not really it's not really apples and to Apples to look at other cities starting rates because if you're worried about retaining employees they might leave us as a maintenance 2 or even a maintenance one with a little bit of experience and go to another city they're going to be they're not going to be entering in that City at the bottom of that pay so if that's what you're comparing us to then that's not really well like I said when I first started looking at all of this we were in a recruitment phase and now we have somehow managed to move ourselves into a retention phase so what what we have done is the people who are currently here adding that 5% to their hourly and then Shifting the range just the ranges by 3% so right now my biggest in all honesty when I'm looking at bringing somebody in cuz like we we have a water maintenance position that's open right now we can hire a one two or a three for that position depending on what experience they have whoever comes in the door I'm going to look at their experience and see what they're asking for also and if I feel like it's going to create some compression we we're going to have to have a conversation about that um because sometimes we just can't bring somebody in as high as they would like to come in so we always consider like a 5% maybe a 10% depending on how much experience they have but I also have to take into consideration the ones who are already here right so did I hear you right you're going everybody's going to get 5% and the Merit then goes away I'm sorry what was that the Merit goes away or they still can get the Merit no they can still get up to so they can get up to 8% up to 8% so it's a win situation for everyone I believe so yes okay I it's I just it's a little bit part of our our uh budget creep where we're it's just going up and up and up as mentioned before uh just the last three years Personnel cost have gone up 11% a year so so it's kind of stuck in there so it's not a necessarily a win-win for everybody uh I originally interpreted what you had said uh or what Dr or commissioner doctor had meant had said that you were going to do the 5% but in Li of the 3% cross the board in a 3% Merit MH uh but you're saying No it's it's it's 5% plus 3% yeah yeah so that already built into the budget no it is what's built in uh what's built in is is a 3% and a 3% so it's 3% across the board Cola um October 1 for all positions and 3% up to Merit um at some point in time you know upon their anniversary date um making that switch I've kind of run the numbers roughly um there's also some other um adjustments that I think that um uh we can make between now and the uh adopted budget that I I have a reason to believe that this could that we could easily um make this work and it not have a significant impact compared to what the proposed budget is I just don't really feel comfortable with this not having like literally any information in front of me well so one thing and and I can get I can get you some more information absolutely but one thing that when I look at the the pay studies that these other cities are doing and knowing that we haven't had one and no one can seem to remember the last time we had a pay study and usually what happens with pay studies is that they come in and everyone's being underpaid everyone so it kind of creates this like 10.0 on the RoR scale right so I'm looking for like small mov movements right now in the tectonic plates and I'm just really just trying to use the information that I have to try to keep up and retain these employees because for morale for over all cost efficiency it's it's much less expensive to retain our employees than it is to try to recruit them um especially when you're looking at um areas like solid waste and we have and when we don't have people in solid waste which we have been full for four whole days now thank you very much when we don't have people in solid waste we're having to pull from grounds and water and and they're having to do a job a that they weren't hired to do but also it increases our injuries which then also affects our work comp which then affects everything else so what we're really trying to do is see what we can do with this retention piece um and sometimes it does just come down to let's see if we can just bring them up a little bit more further into their range and cons continue with our ancillary benefits um in order to not have those other cost Pieces come up because we're trying to recruit because we don't have enough people because morale is low and in all honesty right now I have I I go to I go to public works at 7: a.m. every single Tuesday morning every Tuesday morning I'm out there they have their safety meeting I'm talking to them I had the conversation with them one day that I understand that my appreciation doesn't pay their bills right so the cost of everything is going up and in and when you are not comfortable and you don't feel like you can do things financially it affects your work as well that's not where your head is at so with the little bit of data that I could I I want to say a little bit like for me it was a lot of data right but in the overall grand scheme of things with the with the amount of data a pay study could actually give us um the numbers that I have come up with are not out of range for what anyone else is doing in the local area I would uh feel more comfortable if I had something in front of me just the mayor said but uh before Amy left G and I had got into a a pretty good discussion about you know where do our employees sit and uh right across the board we were in the bottom 50% not the bottom of the 50% but we were in the bottom 50% and uh so we had talked at that time that you know how could we make it uh Equitable for everybody and that's why I was concerned if it was going to be 5% the no merit then boy that is you know people are going to feel cheated but if you give them the 5% and they still can do the Merit at 3% you know that that works and that's when I said you know it's it's a win for everybody it is because we need to retain our folks and we're not going to do that long term if we're going to be in the bottom 50% and one other thing that I would just like to point out is that we are a smaller uh agency which means we don't have as many opportunities for people to promote and when you don't have as many opportunities for people to promote you're going to lose employees more often and my goal has always been treat your employees so well give them as many skills as possible if they give you a few years that's great but if at some point in a small agency you're going to have to cheer them onto their next adventure right like that next role so we already know that some of our folks who are just outstanding employees are going to get the skills they need to promote somewhere else because we just simply just don't have the space for them to do that so while they're here we would like to continue for them to contribute as much as they possibly can um and be happy here as well knowing that someday we're probably going to lose them everyone what's everyone's feeling on that do you are you able to just bring us more information on that since it's not in the budget that we just reviewed we're going to need to know what those numbers are anyways so if we can have Jessica put something together for us and then also take a look at what the impact on the budget is yeah I was going to say feels like there's a couple of other uh parking lot items that we might need to come back and just revisit um before we get to the adopted budget so we can we can easily uh throw this one uh onto it too and uh I think that U uh uh Jessica or Gary has mentioned the the public safety portion too um uh we can also add that to it as well or um we can actually have like a yeah I think we probably should just do that at the at the same time or you know if if you can have I have I said anything that you need to add to about the uh the compression portion of it and that's basically what the what the deal is no the the compression is there since we did the uh the agreements um we do actually have like um Captain out you know Captain saarees out in um police is actually then October one will be making less than his highest paid Lieutenant um so we do have compression that got built in when we did the uh the CBA agreement so um I do have the numbers and we can discuss everything all at the exact same time if you'd like mayor if I may would it be better for a workshop on this just with the information that's coming out yeah I assume we'll have another session to cover all the things that we've kind of deferred already right I'm thinking August 20th would be you know that's if you know if that's a you know we have a meeting on August 20th and I mean if that would be uh I think that gives some time for Community input and all that stuff and still gives me enough time to make those changes for the adopted for the uh September 3rd meeting that work time wi yes sir thank you okay all right um any other comments on that before we move forward let me just jump in again the the uh Personnel cost which is salaries you know everything as you guys well know including life insurance and uh medical insurance but anyway it's gone up just in since 2022 it's gone up $3 million and this year it's going up a million and we haven't added any people you've come in with a flat budget but yet I'm looking at on page six of this spiral thing uh I'm I'm looking at a roughly a million doll increase in Personnel cost uh so that's you know that's a a 9% increase over prior year but it's uh it's going up and up and up and I know part of and and and I didn't push back at all on on the five% uh that you cut that you're giving them 5 percentage points more uh on their health insurance uh you used to cover 70% now you're covering 75% so that's I I know that one of the slides mentioned was a slight increase but it's probably $80,000 a year uh or so uh I did my own calculation on it I'm sure yours is more accurate than mine but anyway there is a million doll increase here in in this line item uh with just from one year to the next with no additional Personnel so we've been doing some things things I didn't push back on any of the education stuff I I agree with that I think we should do as much of that I think we need to develop our people I need I appreciate the fact that you're doing something on benefits and I just and I'm not totally opposed to looking to what you have to present to us but let's just keep this in mind that you know just in the last you know just since 2022 we're up 32% in Personnel cost just in three years so it's it is going up quite a bit and I and I had I I broke out the uh collective bargaining agreements separate from uh the non-collective bargaining agreements and the non-collective bargaining agreement group is up uh 16% over two years ago which is 8% a year in salaries in salaries and it well you say salary the benefits and salary corre just salaries only just salaries yes because the biggest portion of of the increase over the years has been uh Insurance related yes I've they've been bumping that up matter of fact I think it if you go back five years it's like up like 32% or something right I've got that separate yeah I'm just talking salaries only so again I'm not opposed to it so come but just it it's and I'd rather quite quite frankly focus on you know trying to tighten up how we spend on uh operating cost and I am on salaries I think we've done a lot for this city I I appreciate very much what we've done with the the firefighters and the police uh and I appreciate what we're trying to do because I want this to be a great place to work and I uh so so I'm reluctant to raise this as an issue let's just not get carried away as I guess what I'm asking by 8% uh is a big increase and I'll say that that 8% is um uh looking at the uh adopted from FY 24 to 25 uh so that 8% does include the uh PBA and the iff increases uh and it also uh doesn't include the positions that were added midy year um where was um some positions that were added into public works so that would not be reflective of the fy2 24 column U but they are included in the fy2 so there's a portion of those uh positions that were added midye that's adding to the uh the budget increase and that was part of the uh the employees where we were going to hire a contractor to do the causeway and to do some paradise and then we decided not to that we wanted to bring those employees in housee and uh that was what three employees that was three FTE and then we also added another uh with the supervisor stuff that we did uh a couple of months ago right so you're right a lot of those were added approximately mid year in that about this time in August if I remember right and even just an entry level you know $15 an hour salary with benefits and everything it's it adds up to real money really quickly so and plus we have the the greeters downstairs people at the desk we've added positions there there's been some added positions with moving here right that's in our yeah that they that position was included yeah it is but I I didn't know if that was reflected also in the salaries I'm sorry okay you guys good great all right oh let me find my place I I think the only other item we had was the uh fee schedule um I basically cover the Strategic plan we we needed an updated strategic plan there there's my pitch for the new strategic plan um we'd all agree for the uh the fee schedule I I'd be um if we're if we're going to add a workshop item to the 20th um there's not a not a lot that is in that fee schedule but it's um it's a probably a longer conversation that we might want to have this evening um so I'm happy to to continue that one at a later meeting or if you uh the commission wants to knock it out right now I can do that too we can put that on the next Workshop okay all right we've got a I've got a I've got some notes and I've got uh some other little uh parking lot items but uh I I do appreciate uh the commission the public uh my and one last little huge thanks to all of my uh co-directors and assistant directors they uh they know how uh uh stressful this time of the year is for me and know uh know that uh uh I do my best to have their back and make sure that they uh have the projects that they need and the people they need taken care of so uh uh big Thanks goes to uh all of my other directors all right ditto you guys are all wonderful thank you I know that it's really it takes a lot of time to put this together and it takes your support of Mike to to bring this across the finish line so we do appreciate everyone being here and sitting in the room for the whole time and being here for support um so we that concludes our items of business do we have any other public comment Robert boso real quick Robert boso I've managed people in programs All My Life um there's more to morale than salaries I know we focus a lot on parking Revenue we're spending a lot of time on salaries I've been around a little bit and I think uh you know I've looked at this two cbas the the police in a fire and they're great but they're they're they're pretty generous and we're never going to match salaries of bigger places my wife happened to be a a Catholic High School teacher she'd love to make a public school salary but she but she was damn happy to stay in a Catholic private school so we're never going to meet that threshold of a lgo or clear water or a tamper but this is a pretty nice place to live and I think salaries are pretty good we need to look at morale and I think we should do a survey about about about B morale and I think salary is probably not going to be quite at the top we used to term Merit pay is it really Merit pay or is it really like a step increase because I I'd like to know how many people do not get Merit pay on their anniversary you can't combine the term employment anniversary with Merit pay they're two separate things I bet it's almost 100% so I wouldn't call it I wouldn't call it Merit pay so U thanks for your I can answer thank you sure if you're if you're interested sure uh it is in fact Merit pay and a true sense of the word the reason it happens on the anniversary is because that's associated with your evaluation and it's based on your evaluation the amount of the Merit if any you get so it is the gwi is the is the cost of living adjustment the Merit pay is in fact based on performance okay any other public comments all right hearing that oh I I conclud really I didn't want to conclude without without working this and uh I was glad to see that we uh uh unanimously agreed to adding a parking enforcement person I think that's good I think think it's going to have a payback but I'd also uh like to plant the seeds for later discussion not necessarily this evening but uh for creating an economic development uh person uh that's something that I think the city needs it's a I'm think I'm thinking of a high level position that would report directly to the city manager work closely with the owners of of uh Property Owners at Treasure Bay Yacht Club uh the property owner was on both sides of 107th Avenue uh working with potential restaurant owners who would be interested in locating these locations uh and work towards you know improving the quality of life for our residents increasing the value of Investments for both business and and and uh and our residents and increasing revenue for the city uh this position might you know I'm just making up a number I did do some go Google research on it but may it might pay you know up upwards to $100,000 a year but it could generate a a lot more Revenue uh in return if we have somebody that can work directly with these uh with these groups to try to figure out how to develop this property in such a way that's that uh benefits our residents so I'd like to throw that up for consideration I don't know we don't need to consider it for vote right now or anything like that but just for some food for thought between now and our next uh uh budget review session thoughts I think it's great I really do think it's a good thing that we need for our city to put I agree too okay do I do I have direction to um add that position for the adopted is that what the consensus is okay I'm just making sure I have my marching orders I think so let's marching orders would be I think task Jessica before that to take a look at what is what's marketable and where it falls into our I just don't want to not include it if you if the five of you want it I will make sure it's added all right thank you thank you that was easy thank you for bringing that up good any other suggestions or comments uh just a comment again Mike to you and your staff great job appreciate diligent and have a good weekend and relax that's that is my top goal thank you all right all right anything else all right we're adjourned thank you everyone e --------- e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e corner you had said it was we added just which it was it wasn't all right good morning everybody Welcome to um today's Board of Commissioners budget Workshop meeting it is Friday August 2nd 20 24 um thank you all for joining us and we'll go ahead and get started um call the meeting to order and we'll start with the Pledge of Allegiance i al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay roll call please commissioner Toth here vice mayor doctor here commissioner Minnie here commissioner Dicky here mayor Payne here thank you thank you all right we'll move right into our items of business but before we get started I do want to outline some of the procedures that will be following for public comment today um after each department presents their budget and after each section of um the presentation outlined in the um staff cover page that's in the memo or in the um agenda packet today we will provide a time for public comment so if you would like to speak you must fill out a comment card in the back of the room and provide it to the city clerk um so that we can stay organized and know who will be speaking please include on your card which section of the budget or the department for which you would like to comment you can do this at any time before the public comment on that item has ended each person will have five minutes to address the commission and when the timer goes off please end your comments immediately each person is only allowed to speak once per item according to our rules of procedure we do request that public comments provide new information and we ask you not to repeat the comments of previous speakers all comments must be provided from the podium please do not address the commission from your seat as all comments need to be recorded and heard through the microphones for those listening at home all remarks shall be addressed to the commission as a body and not to any specific member of the commission if there is a question posed during public comments I may request that question be answered by the staff but it will be answered once your allotted time is up and it will be not be a dialogue so with that I will turn it over to Mike or city manager to get us started all right I was going to see if uh Gary or Chuck had anything to to add to H start this meeting but uh uh it seems like uh I will uh take this one for us um good morning mayor and Commissioners and special thank you for uh I get to say good morning um and typically in years past we've done these starting in the early afternoon and usually by early evening the caffeine and the energy is uh kind of Tanked uh so it's I'm happy that we'll be doing this like fully caffeinated and energized so uh we can get some really good uh uh comments and uh dialogue going um over the next few hours we'll be going through the entire fy2 budget and the fiveyear financial plan uh before we do so I wanted to provide a quick overview of some of the topics and the structure of the workshop today just to uh set some expectations um I'll spend a few minutes going through a quick presentation highlighting some of the uh broad strategic uh budget and financial or fiscal plans um from there we'll move into a review of a general fund operating and departmental budget updates and changes um with opportunities to ask uh questions of the respective directors um after that I will probably actually step away from this table and let um uh Stacy and Kathy and the other two mics uh come up here and discuss some of the larger uh CIP items that are affecting uh C wide projects and parks and wreck uh type CIP uh following that I'd like to uh review the fee schedule paying ATT special attention to uh parks and wreck changes now that we have the new building online and activated um Kathy has some adjustments to her fee schedule uh to make sure that this building is uh recovering the uh our costs and you know activating the space that we have now uh from there we'll go over their Enterprise and utility funds with with their respective CIP and finally time permitting a brief overview of a need for a new strategic plan um as many of you probably know we're ending the ending our fifth year of our five-year strategic plan and we need to have a new direction as to where we're going um so but that that'll be a conversation for winter time um unless there are any questions right off the bat I'll just I can go ahead and jump right into the presentation all right all right so for fy2 there have not been that many adjustments to adjustments to the operating budget outside of a few significant ones uh the commission approved two new collective bargaining agree agreements or cbas with police and fire unions a couple of months ago um while these increases do get our people uh more in line with the prevailing wages in the area they do represent a measurable one-time effect uh on the budget um when it's uh p uh fire and HR and police is turn to talk they can uh discuss any some more of the the details of those uh Collective marketing agreements um we also made an adjustment to the admin fee uh this is charged to the utility funds it's based on an update to the methodology um I was uh challenged to go in and look at um how we actually allocate this admin fee out to the utility funds and then looking through the uh methodology it did seem like um we were overburdening um the utility funds in a way that didn't make sense so as a way of providing some slight um rate relief to those funds we've reimagined the uh admin fee so it is generally producing a slight decrease in those admin fees charged to the utility funds which correspondingly has a slight decrease in the revenue to the general fund don't want to get into all the weeds of that one that it's kind of a a a a big policy or a financial decision as a way of providing a little bit of rate relief to the uh to the Enterprise funds um and then the only other broad change for the operating budgets is the increase in the uh health insurance subsidy from 70 to 75% of net tier costs uh this is just another slight adjustment to pronote retention of our employees and uh Jessica will have plenty to talk about when it's hr's turn um the uh majority of the FY 25 through 29 budget impacts are driven by the CIP projects and Citywide Capital needs um the master lift station and Public Works facilities are slated to be bid in early fy2 um in addition the uh this new Five-Year Plan includes uh 17.6 million in downtown facility improvements uh the list there is provided between the Public Works facility public safety building um uh Transformer relocation and the marina Park all included over the next 5 years um additionally there's a few million dollars budgeted for seaw walls and bridges that are not of the bascule variety that are uh in in needs of uh uh some attention over the next five years this includes both the palms and Capri Bridges and the East and West bridges on the causeway uh the solid waste fund is scheduled to replace two residential garbage trucks next year debuting a hopefully a new smaller truck strategy that I'll let uh Mike talk to later um and the city is scheduled to make some major investments into the electri electrification of our Fleet uh while we're going over the C CIP in more detail I did want to provide some of the the overview of these larger items all right so moving on to the operating budget changes uh basically we have it divided in between personnel and the operating cost themselves uh so Personnel positions are adjusted 3% Cola it's the cost of living adjustment and that's outside of the collective bargaining agreements the police and fire had different uh adjustments for fy2 um and we also are including 3% uh up to 3% for merit upon the employees anniversary date um we also have and Jessica could talk to this more um a a another option that was not included Ed in the proposed budget but we would like to bring uh to the commission for the adopted budget that makes some strategic adjustments to our hourly staff based on changes to the uh Fair labor standards act that just came through in July um I I would be out of my Lane to go talk about it more than that Jessica is been been researching this and is well versed in some of these impacts that we know have happened um we also are aware of some changes that might uh occur in January um but those are still kind of up in the air so the budget does not uh contemplate those changes but we will be uh bringing back um uh another adjustment for the hourly staff that brings that base pay rate increase up to about 5% on average um but that would supplant their cost of living so rather than the 3% they would get the 5% base increase and then they'd have up to 3% for merit um we also be bringing a public safety uh leadership wage adjustment too um something that kind of came out of the new collective bargaining agreements is that there's a wage compression um at the top end of the um lieutenants and the sergeants that are in those respective unions and it's pushing uh a little uh it's pushing those salaries up into the range of the uh directors of those two programs and I believe uh Gary has mentioned to the commission about this issue so we'll be bringing um information up uh about that later on in the meeting uh again I mentioned earlier the health insurance subsidy increased to 75% and we could do this mainly because we had another sub 1% increase in our premium so that's two years in a row where our health insurance costs have not gone up more than 1% um that's that is a a fantastic thing to be able to uh claim our Dental premium is up 15% for next year we actually negotiated that down to 15% um we did change carriers a few years ago so we suspect that maybe U the intro rate was an intro rate so we're going to see one more year and upon renewal uh next year if there if there's proposing another increase we might be bringing back um the option to move to a new vendor and then our workers compensation is projected up 5% just to account for any inflation um we don't suspect that we'll have any sort of major adjustments to our um mod factor or uh anything like that that our claims have an increase but just to assume for inflationary increases we budget a 5% increase for workers comp if we get those numbers back in before the adopted budget and they're less we'll we will revise accordingly um all the other lines of insurance uh this is like the general liability property um police liability fire cancer coverage all of those ancillary uh insurances are uh going up in an average of 177% overall um but in the past couple of years property has been going up 30 something percent uh flood has been going up for other communities way more than what we've been experiencing so 177% is I'm not going to say lucky but it's it could be worse um on the operating side um as the commission has already approved at the last meeting the gulf Beach's Library allocation was up 6% and the PSTA rates were up 18% with the uh new uh pair of transit cost for fy2 uh again I mentioned the modification of the cost allocation plan for the admin fee um the processing fees paid to St Petersburg for Wastewater are expected to go up 10% uh next year and that's just a pass through cost there's nothing really the city can do besides U pumping pumping it elsewhere at this point so we're kind of beholden to uh St Petersburg at this rate and then uh the affer the assumed first debt payment uh for the public works facility is also included in the operating budget uh for next year um we we've included this slide in the years in the past and um I didn't want to delete it because I think it always adds it's like a nice little refresher every year um that there are while the city has different funds and different sources of funding um those funds can only be used for certain finite um costs so while we always look to find other funds to uh pay for items uh outside of the general fund we are extremely restricted in what things we can and can't put in certain funds so this is kind of a brief rundown of over of the city's primary funds and what we can and can't um use them on basically storm water has to be used on storm water Wastewater needs to be used for Wastewater so those make sense um the penny for panis fund is the one that has some uh flexibility but there the County ordinance limits the um the type of expenses and the the spirit of the expenses so while we can use them to prolong the life of facilities they're not really used for maintenance of facilities so anything that prolongs the life adds features to um an amenity can be used out of the penny police uh police and fire vehicles can be used out of the penny so where we can use uh the penny that's what we use for our major infrastructure and then everything else if it doesn't fit in any other box and yet we feel that there is a need for it the general fund is the is the last option because you can spend anything out of the general fund on any well I don't say anything most anything um so that's just a a brief little overview of the funds funding sources and how we can and can't use uh the different revenues um while we're on the topic of revenues um the proposed millage R which the commission set at the trim notice of the last meeting was a 38129 with the causeway allocation making up 0.5 of that total uh Parks and Recreation fees have been adjusted to be more responsive to users and better recover those related expenses uh Wastewater has the 10% base increase plus the pass through adjustment that's the uh fy2 is the last year that was uh recommended in that fee schedule for another 10% increase to get to meet all of the capital needs uh for the Wastewater fund uh and then Solid Waste uh rates uh 3 % increase for recycling based on the contracts that the commission will be uh approving at the next meeting and a 10% for refuse to build up fund balance for the garbage truck replacement uh building fund rates have also been adjusted uh to uh reflect the increases for those Building Department Services contracts that will also be on the an upcoming uh agenda item and then the storm water rate Revenue should effectively be flat for fy2 um although we'll be having that other year two of the eru adjustment um if the commission remembers we did a three-year approach to to slowly get to make that change from the edu to the eru and since the math was such a substantive change for one year uh doing it over three years was allows us to yeah make the adjustment more uh uh more slowly and you know so it's a little more responsive uh to the uh to the rate payers oh yes so the uh um for for years the city was under a policy called the the edu which is an equivalent dwelling unit um and the math actually I we w't get into all the the details of of everything but it actually included like hotel rooms so hotel rooms were included in the count as though somebody was living in the hotel rooms at all times s what it did is it made our hotel hotels and resorts pay in um an amount way greater than what their individual storm water um effect would be if you have a gigantic you know Hotel building it only has the same footprint as a single family home would have in that lot but you have all these units in it that were paying a rate that was significantly higher than what they should have so so we uh got a rate study company called rais to come in and do a per parcel um evaluation and basically they looked at every single family home and came up with a um equivalent amount of land that is not paved for each single family residence and that is your new eru number so basically that number says on average every single family residence has I I think the number is going to be 4,455 I think is the final number that we're getting to so that is the eru number so we assume all single family homes will have that rate regardless Citywide all other properties will have their um open land calculated based on that eru so if they have 10,000 square fet of open land on their parcel divided by 4,500 the final eru number they would be paying two erus that's that's how the math works but the whole process was uh a fair distribution of the storm waterer uh needs and impact to the rate payers that get the greatest benefit from them that's a big broad way of putting it but um the way the people that were paying the higher rates and under the previous weren't getting the benefits that the people that were paying lower rates so it's generally rate neutral but it right sizes the rate payers so that it's more fair to the actual impact of of those Property Owners did I is that fair enough Gary okay all right um here is a um another chart that's been in our budget presentations for years um this is basically a breakdown of the uh property owner in Treasure Islands tax bill so the current the FY 24 um tax rates uh countywide is 16. 4541 and of that uh uh 23% of it is due to uh Treasure Islands expenses so the other balance of the 77% of Treasure Island Property taxpayers are paid to the County EMS and the other uh taxing agencies in this area um here's another chart that shows the um uh millage rate history over the past 10 years um as you can see those been the slight millage rate increases as we ramped up to get to the 0. five Mills to support the bridge and then the only other major change is in fy2 where we are removing the replacement Revenue allocation and rolling it into the general operating uh millage that was set aside um a couple of the years ago knowing that we would eventually the plan was to be taking on debt for some of the major projects since the first of those uh new debt payments are scheduled for fy2 we've uh reverted we've basically converted that portion of the millage rate taken that out and uh folded it into the general operating because it's going to be an operating cost to pay for the uh uh The Debt Service the next page this shows the uh property tax that have been collected over the past 10 years U while the the rate increase that for the bridge is a portion of that the majority of that is the uh the uh valuation increase over the past U handful of years um since the since the Great Recession landed since the bottom dropped out and we hit our absolute lowest um since then the city has averaged about 8% a year in property value valuation increases um while that's a it's a fantastic um upside of coming out of the Great Recession um we don't know exactly how long and we can't expect that 8% is going to recur for the next coming years so uh We've we always try to be conservative on estimating what this one is going to be in the out years because this being the largest revenue Source we never want to assume um to get too far overextended in our assumptions for what this Revenue might come in at this is one that I always try to be very conservative with to keep it as um as close to um close to Flat as possible just because we know it's a it's one that when it goes up it's great when it goes down it's it's bad uh and then this is actually a breakdown of within the 3.81 125 millage rate uh sorry 38129 millage rate it actually has an allocation for how much of that is going to special programs so I know uh commissioner minning always likes this one the transit alternative versus PSTA millage so that's that light blue if we were a member of PSTA we'd be paying 75 Ms um instead the equal amount is16 Ms um even the library contribution is included on there so out of the total 38129 Ms 0528 of those Mills goes for the library just another way of kind of repackaging um where the uh general fund monies go uh and then here is a uh uh millage rate chart over the uh past couple of years showing the U uh vote requirements for up for the FY 25 um as I mentioned for the trim uh notice item last week um because there was a 10% valuation increase uh to keep the same 3.81 to9 Ms uh will require a vote of uh four out of the five of the Commissioners uh the uh majority U maximum vote the rate that would only require three is 3.66 21 Ms um and then this is a a chart that we uh include that kind of breaks down the the impact of of these proposed changes for different um assumed taxable properties so for the first um chart there that assumes a median home that's the median value of properties um in Treasure Island with the homestead valuation uh applied so on an annual basis the proposed fy2 budget will result in $71 total for the year um as far as a a tax increase uh the non homesteaded homes so the homes that do not have the 3% cap and the save our homes um would pay an extra $236 a year and then we have some other uh properties like a $1.5 million U non-homestead and a $3 million Homestead to represent commercial properties um that would be in the city and what those uh impacts might be so these represent our you know small to medium uh Resorts that are on the beach and you know those uh so you know a $3 million valuation of a resort is going to be paying $1,100 uh more under the same tax rate for next year um this is a an all funds budget summary basically just a total expense uh for all of the funds and then a summary by category of all of those so you'll see all the numbers balance in each column um it's basically just another way of repackaging um our budget to kind of show it in a rolled up version but not being being somebody who looks at numbers all the time I always like charts too so this is a a chart I put together that basically shows the flow of those uh funding sources Citywide so you have the uh the funding sources there on the left the budget and the expenses there in the middle and then the actual end uses of those money of those uh uh revenues there on the right broken into just broad categories so you can kind of see U where the money is coming and where it's going just in a a visual B it's it's a visual of this chart um I was also asked toh provide a little update for our uh debt management Uh current our currently we are carrying um three four four outstanding uh loans uh the palms and Capri Bridges loan loan which ends in FY 27 uh there are two Wastewater State revolving loan funds so these are very low interest um loans from the state used to uh improve Wastewater and other water delivery uh infrastructure uh and then the city center Revenue Bond ends in FY 35 uh the proposed future debt is the Public Works facility um which is $6.1 million over FY 25 to FY 44 and those costs are actually allocated to the general fund and all three of the Enterprise funds since Public Works is the prime will be the sole user of that building um it made sense to make sure that the separate funds that would be working out of that building would also uh pay a proportional uh share uh these two proposed Deb issuances do pass all the four to five um tests imposed on the city whether internally or by um uh U like the debt covenants uh and I say a four to five because one of them actually expires uh in one of one of the tests falls off and is no longer a test in between the uh 25 and 27 dead issuances um so in FY 24 the city will have made uh 1,651 in debt service payments and we have an outstanding principal balance of 8 million 62,939 million uh the public safety build building budget at 8 million and a $20 million loan at 4% with a total debt payment of 11.7 million so that's um just kind of broad Strokes what those uh would look like while we'll go into more detail um of the uh specific projects themselves I did want to mention and kind of highlight some of the uh the larger projects by fund is kind of ties back to the those spending buckets that I mentioned earlier um and how like some of the larger projects that we've allocated uh for these funds so the general fund um 650,000 to relocate electrical Transformers um $4 million for the beach Trail extension uh $2 million for seaw wall repairs uh 6.8 and CIP projects for the causeway over the 5year period uh parks and wreck facility improvements and about 800 or 750,000 in scheduled vehicle Replacements uh penny for pelis U kind of continuing the same seaw wall and pavement strategy that we've been dropped off the past couple of years um 632,000 for parks and rec facility upgrades improve Improvement so some of this is Treasure Bay some of these are are other Parks as well and then uh 1.66 million for police and fire vehicles um our Wastewater fund has the uh has another uh 520,000 for the master lift station contingency uh the relining program is basically been made an operational program with um about 27 million allocated for that um over the next 5 years and a the biggest um hit to the Wastewater fund is a necessary repair to a force main at 116th Street and I don't like talking about wawat stuff because it's I you know it's it's gross so I will let I let Mike uh uh mention the the needs for that repair um when it's when it's his turn um solid waste that has the three residential garbage trucks to replace over the next two years uh with planned replacement of the commercial trucks in the out years um and another 213,000 for other vehicles and Equipment uh Solid Waste Capital expenses are almost always just vehicles uh and then the storm water uh we have 384,000 in vehicle Replacements and upgrades uh the Southwest Pump Station curbing repairs and a large project to redesign and Elevate uh the West costway all right so uh just to kind of go back over the uh the plan schedule um I'd hope that we could go over um all of the operating uh funds or all the operating budgets and the departmental review so we can let um each of the Departments come up and have their uh their say and their uh their time in the sunshine um then we'll move to the capital projects and kind of really dig into um these specific projects we can even go one by one in the CIP book that I provided um then move on to the fee schedule specifically with Parks and Recreation uh touch on the utility funds including the building fund and then at the end with time permitting um mention next steps for strategic plan in the winter so with that I will uh open it up to the floor with any for any broad questions from the commission and uh see if see if we uh if we're good with this schedule and if we need to make any adjustments great thank you Mike do we have any questions from the commission on uh Mike on Slide Five uh and on a couple of slides you'd me mentioned about the adjustment and admin Services cost allocating uh plan to more appropriately disperse those costs yes uh so those adjustments were made in fy2 did you do you restate the prior years so that we had a good comparison or or did you not restate no we won't be restating the current year because we've already that plan was already put into effect so it would be effective for fy2 okay yeah I just mentioned for comparison purposes if you had restated it would have been easier but but I understand no and I can I can give you the the side by side of what the what the allocation would be for this year versus next year okay on slide six uh about the uh assuming the first debt payment uh interest only when when will that money actually for the uh Public Works facility when will that money actually be be borrowed uh whenever at at whatever point in time we're ready to um construct there's there's kind of a a sensitive dance that we have to do uh with any project of issuing a notice to proceed for a construction project while using um financed money uh we ran into that whenever we renovated this building there's because of the limitations of our Charter and and the fact that it requires an ordinance to issue any debt um there's kind of a sensitive needle that has to get thread so it whenever we have the project ready to be bid and it's ready to go out along those same time we'll be working on the dead issuance at the same time so they they will be moving in concert with one another so basically at at the commission's will so if that's the project you want us to prioritize then that'll be the one that you know we take up uh first next year so at some point in we just assumed at some point in time we would be making that first uh interest only debt payment you know between October 1st and September 30th in the next fiscal year great all right thank you thank you for including those in the for the Public Works building and the public safety I appreciate the um transparency with the total debt payment showing including interest what those the total cost of that is going to be and those are those are numbers that um uh I ran and then were also validated by our um um third party financial advisor uh company called prag and they basically they assisted us with the dead issuance for this building um and she basically came back and said I couldn't have done the numbers better so it's it's good to know whenever I I it uh the numbers shake out right so um I was happy to include those we have several several grants that are out there are those going to be covered individually underneath each person or do you have a breakdown of what the grants are and all the information regarding them you're talking about um grants that are for current items or grants that are allocated for future projects current items current items would would if it's um not not knowing specifically which Grant it is um if if we've started on a project and it expended did anything and we've identified a grant as supporting it I can't imagine that we don't have that Grant agreement in place already um but if it's for a project where we've identified a grant but we haven't yet you know like typically pursuing the grant is one of the earliest steps that we do for some of these projects where they think that there's going to be grant funding so um in terms of I guess I is there a specific project well there's several specific projects I mean like the t- birf Grant and all of the ones related to Treasure Bay or well you know we can start with the pump station yeah oh well that's that's uh yeah that's the $1 million Federal appropriation um and the $3 million from arpa um and we I I do not believe that we'll have any issues with those we'll actually we actually will be coming back to the commission um in September with a way of um uh addressing the arpa money in a way that our Auditors think is the best way to handle the money so that we can uh keep it and use it for what we've intended to use it for and not have this uh SE this December 31st deadline um looming so we'll be able to receive and collect the $3 million um and still have it available before the December 31st okay commissioner minning uh a couple questions Mike number one thank you and your staff U for all the hard work and putting a budget together I appreciate it that's a lot of work uh do you have a number of employees on a historical basis and a projected basis yes I think that's actually on page um that is actually in the transmitt section in the uh proposed budget page where are we page seven um there's a chart it's the full-time part-time equivalent authorized positions uh for FY 23 FY 24 and fy2 by um by department so it shows the uh historical uh changes for any of those uh departments um over the past over next year in the past two years okay thank you I'll get take a look at that and then uh you mentioned that you are hesitant or you don't use projected future revenues what what I'm what I meant was is I I don't when it comes to the um advolum tax revenue that's one that while we do assume some increases I'm we've always been very conservative in keeping those assumed increases as low as possible and being happily surprised whenever it comes in one or two percentage points better CU you the other way around then this whole five-year financial plan goes out the window so it it's it's beneficial for us to assume a more conservative growth rate and be happy whenever it comes in a little bit better because we know costs typically don't go down so having having that little bit of cushion uh year toe allows us to absorb the the unexpected costs that the city might might have and the just the inflationary factors in those out years so if we assume those higher rates and those rates didn't come in now we're having to cut programs and cut projects and out years that we've identified because the revenues aren't hitting the marks that we assumed that they would hit so it's it's a it's a balancing game um and it's one that um we try to be as accurate as possible but we'd much rather be uh safer than we would be um enthusiastic and uh optimistic so there's a there's a little a balancing act that goes into it and um what I what I always like to remind people is that while we include the out four years in the budget that's more of a planning so the only numbers that are are being adopted are the fy2 numbers everything else is just being provided as as context that if we do this in 25 we'll be able to do these things in 26 27 28 29 and then next year for FY 26 we'll be updating it again for 27 28 29 30 so it's um the only year that really matters is the upcoming one and the other ones are just kind of paint the story for where we can go after the upcoming year hopefully that answers your question somewhat yeah my what I'm trying to get at I should have said it earlier sorry um can you not do a high low average oh you talking like like um on the most conservative side while I understand that and applaud that it's nice sometimes to see what the top might be and what the negative might be um I think the numbers that we've been providing um are are safe I mean we we can always um show that that range that high low range um I just risk I just my fear is that it uh can lead to interpret s that might uh lead to bad outcomes um if we start assuming the the best scenarios every year and that doesn't pan out it's you know it's just a um I'd be happy to provide like a high low um and kind of you know provide a range of what the increases might be I just don't know what um what benefit it might have well if we come in ahead the revenues are greater then you've got a plan up there that en encompasses the higher revenues um and you know how much additional service the city May provide if it's below that then you know that these are the areas I have to cut uh and I can plan for those or at least I can be aware of them and then the average is just what you're doing no and that's I and I think that's fairly not dissimilar to what our overall budget strategy is is um we we typically don't ask for things that we don't think that we need um and we we make sure that the things that we we do ask for are are things that you know we actually need to do so I I think that we you can you can design a budget from the revenue side and see how much money you have and then spend it however you want to our philosophy is working from the expense side what are the things that we need and then looking at the revenues and seeing you know where we are and what levers we might need to pull to meet those needs so you know it's just a different budget philosophy but one that I think that you know if if especially at now that we have a new city manager if that's a uh a direction he'd like to go in it's one that I I wouldn't mind putting you know different scenarios together you could do both commissioner if if I could thanks um you know if it would be the will of the commission we could take a look at that you know to take a look at a high low average and and work that in and start some formulation to see what kind of impact that could have and it might be beneficial to be able to show the numbers and we're still using the conservative piece that you talked to Mike so I think that's beneficial and I think in in years past we have actually in the budget document under like in the actual uh fund Pages themselves under the CIP we've actually put um unfunded projects in years past basically saying hey we think this is a need this is a project in three years might be something that we could do if the revenue start coming in and could support it so we we we're not that far off we've done something similar to that in the future or in the past of hey if money's come in in the next couple of years and we can afford this project this is like the top project that we would add to this list um so it's I don't think it's too far off from what uh similar operations that we have now well you could also take a look at that Top Line um let's call it the optimistic line and as one of the light items you might consider they're unfunded might be a tax cut so yeah and this it's all things are on the table when you uh when you look at the The Rosy side of it yes commissioner we can take a look at that thank you thanks okay any other commissioner questions the only other question I have and is really a broader uh question about debt I appreciate the slide that you uh that you reviewed with us uh but will we have time to get into further discussion about debt or is that was that the only planned uh worksheet that we're going to talk about debt I I'm I'm certainly happy to answer any other uh questions that we might have about debt um are we going to get into it at later in the the discussion I just didn't want to I know this was it wasn't a major point but whenever we talk about the CIP um we can bring it up then for those for those projects that are related to it okay good okay don't they come up within interde departmental to we go over to what's projected yeah so that'll be there but I'm grateful that we've kept it on a conservative side yeah okay all right um so at this time like I mentioned um we're going to take a pause and take some public comment so anything that Mike has presented in the plan that our public wishes to um comment on I have a few cards um the and if anyone would like to comment on that bring a card up now um mark hoey mayor I'll defer that okay individual okay than Andrew vassie the yeah Podium is I had a uh recent surgery on my foot so that's why I'm asking to sit if you don't mind that's fine thanks good morning I'm Andrew vasy uh 6th Street aisle of palms and also a member of cvti um I'm here this morning to talk about the uh the budget and the uh revenues and expenses um first I'd like to thank commissioner minning for your comment about the upside case and the downside case that's what we refer to it in um private Equity world and a base case uh something we always look at um Treasure Island has been all upside since 2019 and the reason that a lot of us that are uh that are new residents here are taking a high level of Interest becoming fully engaged in the budget process is that um we're trying to add accountability to uh to what's going on at the commission the it's an increase in the tax and spend action that we're looking to try to uh rationalize here now the city staff generates your budget but the Commissioners are accountable to the citizens for the purpose and the need and the cost of the government spending the city government has grown 50% since 2001 the spending of the government from 15 million to 23 million in the budget um what increases in demands for services have occurred on a fully buil island of 6,500 residents it's not like we're building a th000 housing units and we need three more fire departments and uh you know that that the footprint is growing so why a 50% growth in spending um since 2021 we're looking for a deferral of capital projects in this 2025 budget as a way to slow some of the Pago spending that's in here setting aside from The Debt Service that was mentioned as a way to start reducing the cost of government and we're also going to be looking for reduction in the millage rate for property taxes starting next year we're trying to be reasonable and not come in and and say at the last moment here that the millage rate needs to come down but when we go through the revenue and the spending you'll see that there's uh the ability to do this and it's time it's time to start working in that direction these are your tax revenue facts from 20 19 to 2025 the taxable value of property on Treasure Island went from $1.7 billion to 3.2 billion that's an increase in the taxable value of property of $1.5 billion okay from 2019 to 2025 the millage rate was also increased twice even with the um even with the increas in value the millage rate was attributed to the bridge oh oh well we raised the mill because of the bridge money is what we call the f word fungible so if you weren't spending it on other things at your 50% increase in spending then you could fund the bridge responsibility without the millage rate but instead you've taken advantage of both you raised millage rate and you've had a 50% increase in valuation um the increase in the tax F value has increased the property tax revenues which were just explained how critical they are from 6.4 m million a year to 12 million a year the increase just this year from the um from the increase in the tax value is $619,000 additional dollars um for the 25 budget the average annual increase in property tax is running since 2019 at 15% now we're going to look at the spending facts the um spending spree has grown operating expenses provided for a new city hall and provided uh economic development plan that isn't moving forward so we're getting a lot of government spending without the economic development we're also essentially prepaying taxes because the city's budgeting process projects are put in the budget and then for uh direct spending and then the taxes are collected but the projects don't move forward and it's rolled over and then there is a continual rollover process in this budget if you're looking to f fund and maintain an operating Reserve which is essentially what this kind of rollover does just come out and and create an operating reserve and let the residents know that you're going to fund it and maintain it and then stop with the continuous rollover of projects that are are very uh either undefined or ill conceived and we'll point out the connectivity infrastructure that has a standard $200,000 allocation and right now has a budg rollover value of 41 and will now be um 611 so to to close up we are would like to engage further on the 2026 budget process so there are more workshops and we're looking for a roll back on the property tax millage next year 10% which is 1.2 million and um we we know that there's Capital deferrals that are four times that that are available so we think our requests will be very reasonable thank you very much thank you um Ray tuning do you have comments you've asked that um we don't repeat um what a previous speaker said so but I do I do want to say ditto um I I heard some things from a couple of the Commissioners here in your questions so um you do have this rollover that's going on and it affects a lot of things from past performance aspects of projects actually being budgeted and being completed such as the Public Works building and yard um I think with all this rollover I think there needs to be a more realistic approach as to whether or not these projects are actually going to be completed and it also falls into uh what I heard with respect to um interest payments because um your your budget is really not going to match reality and so there should be some a lot of focus on that I'm going to get into some of this other stuff later specific to certain um uh uh categories and departments and uh and so you could see this but this is a very very important thing i' had asked a long time ago there was two lines that I was tracking which was the actual budget versus you know the the finalized um and it it uh it's astounding how much of this rollover has been continued and again uh if it if it in fact is is supposed to be something for the rainy day or some fun such as that um I get it but we should we should go into that with our eyes wide open and understanding and trying to control that bring it down to a more manageable uh number other than $8 million being that our entire general fund is whatever it is 11 12 million thank you for your time thank you Greg Smith thanks mayor and the Commissioners uh also Mike thank you for uh for the work on that budget I can tell you firstand budgets are not easy and uh this was the first time I've really had a chance to take a look at the uh the city budget and I agreed with the comments were previously made but I want to step back even further uh Commission minting started going there taking a little higher level look at how we're going to do this we've got a new city manager maybe we ought to look at process a little bit and I'm speaking to you from the position I'm I'm a uh I'm a shareholder in a private company we have 20,000 Engineers I'm the uh I'm the chair of the audit and finance committee I run the risk management committee I also oversee the corporate governance we have a conversation every year during our strategic planning and it starts with this goals are goal goals are aspirational budgets are reality and I think what's happened is I look at what the city's done over the last three I've only looked at the last three years we we are not distinguishing between aspirational goals and budget reality and all you have to do is go back and look at the projects that are rolling forward that aren't getting done that we're paying for and and you know I tell our guys I mean I've got 20,000 Engineers working for us they're all they're amb ambitious they're aggressive they our 10 business our 10 business unit leaders they come in with these unbelievable plans and we also have a Consortium of 10 Global Banks and a private Equity Firm sourcing cash is not our issue our issue is biting off what we can chew completing projects on time moving them forward one at a time building confidence in the market place and then going to next and the reason that's our reason that's our goals is our stakeholders demand it if if I go to the banks and collect a bunch of money and we end up putting it in a CD and then I go to our finance committee with the with the guy from one of our Global Banks and tell him hey we did a good job this month we got got a whole bunch of money set in a 5% CD I'll probably be out and my CFO will be gone and I'll probably be gone so what I'm saying to you is let's step back let's pick a project and let's get it done when you when you when you budget aspirationally you have severe have significant risk and I'll give you an example you ask about the grants I think it's I think we're into year two three or four of having a $5.2 million Grant to do a public work or a lift station not a public works a lift station in 2019 then mayor Larry lond told me that hey Greg we got to get that lift station fixed because we get one bad storm and you're not going to be able to get on the island there's going to be sewage running down the uh streets but we haven't done anything okay and that's it's fine but we've got a $5.2 million Grant no one disagrees with Mike that we'll probably get our money the difference is that 5.2 million is probably going to cost more like seven or eight I I think it's pretty obvious no one thinks it's going to be 5'2 because they put a reserve there's a contingency in this year's budget for $520,000 so that that contingency that was just put in that tells you right there the Project's not 52 the grant is 5'2 though well the risk is as this continues to pass that Grant becomes devalued every year that we don't do something and and the reason we haven't done anything is we've coupled it with a Public Works building we've got it all gobbled up we were told that there's a common walls why we can't move forward with the lift station well all I know is if we have the big storm I hope we don't but I want to be able to get back at some point and I you know and I live fairly close to the lift station so I just assume that my yard wasn't full of sewage and and I think that's that's the kind of risk that we take we also take a lot of risk when we start projects and we don't finish them and then we get three four five open projects with no real progress and then your stakeholders they get very concerned you know I mean there's people in here I know who want that golf course I mean we blew enough money on the city hall we got paid for that Golf Course three four five years ago but now we're we've got it coupled with a living Shoreline and the risk continues not not saying it's anybody's fault but we're rebidding a project we don't have the permit yet I mean it's just once you start this snowball downhill of aspirational budgeting versus realistic budgeting it's a snowball and it just every project it starts backing up on you it catches up with it catches up to you and we have limited funds you know I mean and we're lucky I mean we're lucky that just like my company's been lucky that the last five years have been good to us we haven't had any issues with funds the issues is what can you do and do it right and so we've had uh here at Treasure Island I mean the property taxes have gone up because the value of the land has gone up and we're all Lucky we're all fortunate we're all thrilled to be here but I just think we're at a point in time where we need to kind of rethink How We Do How We Do the whole budgeting process let's step back take a realistic review of what we can really get done in the next 12 months and then focus on it and get get a couple wins all right thank you thank you all right do we have any other public comment for this beginning introduction all right hearing none um we'll move into the second part but before we do that um we do have the um people from the Tampa Bay Beach's Chamber of Commerce here they were going to be the first one up anyway okay perfect um what where before they as they come up and Pat They I think they have some materials for the Commissioners that they're going to pass out where is um this request um for funding in the budget so that we can refer to it we uh this their request is not actually reflected in the proposed because um we we don't like to assume that the that the commission is going to be uh uh approve any of the spending um until we actually have this meeting so it is not included but um we have included it in the year in the years's past uh between the proposed and the adopted so at the at the commission's direction we will add that where does it what section commission budget so that's why I said we' be able to go right off uh right off the top so it'll be on in general right page 34 in the budget all right well good morning uh I'm Robin Miller uh the CEO president CEO for your Tampa Bay beaches chamber I brought my staff here today I want to do quick uh introductions I know that uh we have another meeting at 11 so Tina's going to go and start that one for us we have Alex Harsha she is our marketing and Communications manager we have Tina who is our events and sponsorships and roxan Anderson who is our membership director so now you can put a face with the name when you see the communications coming so my proud team uh we're small But Mighty so Tampa Bay Beach's chamber uh headquartered at 6990 Golf Boulevard we cover uh the entire beaches so we cover Tera all the way to Sand Key so that is every municipality under our umbrella we were formed over 30 years ago as a a result of taking all the smaller Chambers and forming one chamber which is now which was then known as the gulf Beach's Chamber of Commerce and then that name was then changed to Tampa Bay beaches chamber kind of like Tampa Bay Times Tampa Bay lightning and Tampa Bay Rays so uh being in line with our regionalization but we are the beaches of Tampa Bay um everyone that flies into that airport they're traveling here to Treasure Island to go to the beach so I have um provided a presentation for you and think one of you probably have my little sticky note on the top of your clear cover I think by accident so I'm GNA kind of go off my memory if I can but this package that we give you and we can we ship it over electronically as well really just encompasses everything that the chamber does so we really work on a daily basis with three philosophies to educate to connect and to Advocate and we do that in every one of our communities so for Treasure Island specifically you go you can go through this we've just really screenshot and showed you how you are showcased on our website at Tampa Bay beaches.com how you are showcased in the guide that I gave you a a copy of we print 40,000 copies of that guide and distribute those all over and I say all over even all over the world people request those from overseas as well we pay for all of the shipping for those that product and we also pay for the distribution of that product to all five welcome centers that are run by the state of Florida which is visit Florida we are a certified chamber certified Welcome Center in the state um and award-winning at that when you flip a little bit further we've just highlighted in that package and with yellow uh Rings showing you through the guide where we mentioned Treasure Island highlighting sanding Ovations highlighting all of the wonderful things that Treasure Island has to offer we always welcome the feedback if there are edits we can do everything um editable pretty quickly online obviously ly but not my 40,000 but if you do have a change we can do that for the next iteration in May of 2025 and then as you get to the back of that presentation we have the accolades um we do want to show you in our advocacy effort we are always promoting you know walk wise be safe we work with all of the hotels and short-term rentals to make sure that their guests are informed to use crosswalks and um and then finally in the back we do do a separate communication outside of our general chamber communication that is specific to community and so there are highlighted items that that focus and highlight Treasure Island when we do that we do those um once every other month and um and then you know ad hoc um you know I've been working with Gary off and on and it's been a pleasure this last time working alongside you but when things come up you know fireworks were a big thing this year you did a wonderful job I have other Beach communities asking me how you know how successful it was and then wanted to mirror what you all did so we took the initiative upon G's request to communicate that to the business community and also get it out in in uh our newsletters not only that you had a great show but that you were not allowing the private you know launching a fireworks we want to protect our environment and uh that is a key component of our organization uh Environmental Protections I work at a federal level on Environmental Protections and Fisheries and offshore drilling and uh on a state level as well and having said that we developed a nice postcard that you have in front of you to remind the community about sea turtle nesting season and just what to do and not do uh during that season um and then you know through the year we worked with Jason as well on on communicating to the community of you know the rules the rules of the beach you know you pass an ordinance you're not allowed to smoke on the beach we want to make sure our tourists know that I think the most important thing to take away from our presentation today is that we are a 501 C6 organization that is not a charitable C3 that means we are a membership organization and we are a business organization so all memberships that come into our organization are only businesses we do not allow residents to join our organization unless they have a registered business through sunis so that is our advocacy effort um and and connecting them with resources and giving them the opportunity to get educated and run their businesses better i' welcome any questions great any questions for Robin right thank you very much great to see you guys thank you so much you too you all right all right so that we'll discuss that in context with our um city commission budget so that transitions beautifully all right right into the city commission budget um so uh that would be page 34 in the the budget book um as uh the the format of the uh the budget document itself has um been updated a little bit so that it um kind of focuses um the reader the user to really the key changes um each year um you know keeping we don't really intend that the HR department or accounting or the city Commission is going to go away in any given year um so by providing these uh these summary um changes by category across the years and then highlighting the variances um uh we can basically zero into the program and say hey these are the changes for each of the individual departments um and basically get a get get our arms wrapped around any changes so for the commission itself um we have the the budget VAR Varan right now of $8,200 which is the reduction in expenses uh pending your approval of adding a funding back to the other agencies for uh fy2 so this number will change for the adopted budget um based on uh commission input for how much um they're willing to donate to the uh the two Chambers uh right now the uh historical uh Society um did provide some backup and a request uh for $3,000 in operating uh expenses uh for next year um I've reviewed it and it it seems like it's a fairly straightforward um request um if if they if the commission would like a better presentation um from the Historical Society I think they were just out of the uh out of the state uh for right now but that we could uh ask them to come back at a future date uh to defend their uh request and excuse me is there anything that be displayed for the audience for this yeah I was trying to get this to pop up if my it people could uh help me yeah find just ch showing you screen I don't know second ago one second there's always a technical difficulty always click on something just the uh yeah see bear with us excuse it [Music] let me try it on here let me try it on there we are there thank you Chris thanks Mike thanks Chris thank you good eye Chuck I uh didn't even notice it wasn't showing up there um so yeah so the uh the total variances for the commission uh Department right now um are $9,900 so that's from FY 24 to 25 but we expect that to uh go back up a little bit based on um whatever the commission desires to uh uh any other contributions to the uh the chamber in particular um if that's a if that's something that you would like to consider now um sure okay that's a so that's I'm just laying the scene for the rest of the meeting when you so you have that for each department the total increase or decrease is that total increase or decrease compared to last year's buget compared to the FY 24 budget yeah because we're I'm trying to compare it and Apples to Apples comparison and um comparing the adopted budget from FY 24 to the proposed budget in fy2 is the cleanest um comparison Mike why would that be a cleaner comparison than than the actual number the nine months of actual plus three months of projected because we have to assume I have to assume the capital is being fully spent in this year and because the capital in this year reflects capital from prior years it's it will always skew the numbers in a way that is not a good comparison okay it the the projected actual will always be higher than the actual actual for lack of a better term simply because of the yes accounting math that I have to do to make sure that the fund balances don't get um out of whack gotta okay does anyone have any questions on the city commission I have a quick question regarding life and medical insurance the $60,000 a year that's budgeted for that is that uh 20,000 uh is that based on how many Commissioners we have and they're eligible for it's um yes so there's a um this year we're we're doing something a little bit different just from the uh the budget side um what we've typically done in the past is based on um individuals individ like a selection for their health plan in a given year we had assumed that that's going to be the health plan that they're going to select in the next year for larger departments Public Works police fire this isn't usually a major issue because if one person comes on that was on Family Care and then they get replaced by somebody who's on their base coverage and vice versa it's usually not that much of a change but we have some departments that have one or two people um and if one one person was in the department getting the full family coverage and now their replacement is waving coverage it can make that budget from year to year look uh way skewed so I'm just asking what I'm saying is we've changed the methodology a little bit this year so yes it is based on the actuals but then it's um it's the rate is Blended based on the FTE so the number of people in each department so that the total insurance cost is smoothed over all of the Departments this will make sure that next year any increase to the health and benefits will be um in line across the entire city so one Department's not going to have an exorbitant increase because three people chose the family plan um during that open enrollment in that year so it's just a way of smoothing the numbers out but yes they are based on actual elections and then the rates are smooth based on the FTE for uh each of the different programs okay I guess the reason I'm asking the question is in my case I'm on Medicare so I don't participate in the uh available health care plan yes and I was just if it's $60,000 for the five of us you know roughly $122,000 each would it be $12,000 would the real budget be 12,000 less than that uh if one of us has opted out of it yes so the actuals will be what the actuals are just from a budget perspective so so that we don't have the numbers jumping up and down year to year um by smoothing it in this way and the actuals probably are likely not to be that much different from what the the budget will be because we know people U come and go and elect different plans um it's just a way of we know that the actuals will be a little different and the actuals are going to be different regardless by making the budget uh a the the same and smoothing it from year to year means that the Department's budgets themselves don't look um outrageous from year to year let me let me go ahead you're missing the question we've got five of them here this department specifically how many of them are taking the medical insurance and if so why is the number assuming all five are the the so the number is if if three of you were on the insurance and two of you are on opt outs what I did was I took the total health insurance um health and dental and all of the charges that come out of that line Citywide and then I factored it in based on the number of employees in those departments so they're based on actuals but then the total Citywide costs are allocated by FTE so that if one person's election in any program can't skew that program's budget too much in any given year um so yes if I if if we did it based on actual enrollment the commission's budget might be 101 15 grand less that's that's what I was asking thank you it's it is it might look like it's slightly inflated just because if two of you are opting out but the Blended rate would bring you back up a little bit higher okay so next year so next year let's say health insurance overall increases 1% I would expect that the health and the and medical insurance line in the commission to go up 1% okay all right thank you okay well again my I guess my point is I think we got 12,000 I I'm not going to nickel and dime you or anything but I think we do have some extra money in that account okay any other questions yeah I see Tampa Bay Beach's chamber in here but I don't see the Treasure Island Madera Beach Chamber in here did they not propose anything that's our that's our duesing yeah um I don't know if the Treasure Island chamber charges us dues do they they have not in the past okay okay thank you so the contribution last year we made five we gave $5,000 to each of those two organizations um so we can do the same thing again this year that would be under the aid to private organizations and and that's what I would ask the commission is that do they would is the will of the commission to provide the equal am amounts of funding to each of the chambers total or equal amounts plus this $500 in dues to the Tampa Bay beaches chamber that was uh that was a little unclear uh in last year's uh budget and I I went back through and actually watched the video a few times just to be sure um but if that's that's the kind of a question I'm leaving for the commission do we want to equalize it so that each of them get the same amount of money regardless of where it's coming from or do we want to provide this extra $500 in dues uh to the Tampa Bay chamber in addition to the five to whatever contribution yeah I'd prefer that we make them equal okay so both of them get the total same amount regardless of what we call it correct okay yeah I agree with that thank you and the Treasure Island Mader Beach Chamber is the only one that really has a presence here in Treasure Island the the others I mean were represented very well by them but you know that we're trying to really make sure that uh that we're visible to our residents and to our guests and that's uh that's where the visibility comes in happy happy to do whatever just uh want to make sure that we're clear on where we're where we're giving the money to Mayor I was wondering if there was a consensus for that or sure is everyone okay yes I I agree so 5,000 total including dues okay I will I will make sure that's added for the proposed or for the adopted all right any other questions or comments on the city commission budget good okay do we have any public comment on the city commission budget all right hearing none we'll move on to our next Department all right moving right down the list admin I'll let uh I'll let both of our city managers uh talk about this if they want to but uh just broadly speaking um budget variances um increase in personal services um with uh reflective of the new contract um increase in personal services due to the stien of the uh second assistant uh or co-assistant city manager um 47,500 increase in operating costs due to uh conference registration and uh professional dues and I I'll go ahead and put in a plug for chug Chuck for next year because I plan on goinging myself the icma will be in Tampa which is a fantastic uh uh thing it's the last time I got to go was in Boston like 12 years ago and for them to be in Florida is a uh that's a major um International City County management association so it's all the city managers from across the world will be meeting in Tampa next October um so the total increase for uh the admin department is 57,8 with none of them listed as a normal increase decrease so this is uh that's all of the increases itemized okay anything any questions all right any public comment on our Administration budget all right hearing none we'll move into Human Resources all right so uh Human Resources another one this is one of those um examples of the uh health benefit um adjustment coming into play um Tiffany our old HR Director was on one of the uh bigger plans and her replacement Jessica is opted out so that's it would be one of those if from a year-to-year basis it would make the budget look tremendously less like HR had cut a bunch of there but it's not rich just the allocation of the insurance so as a way of smoothing that that's why I have uh done this new little uh philosophy um the only changes they have is a a decrease in the operating costs due to a one-time expenses uh for an uh management certification course um and everything else is just a normal increase and decrease that's you know onetime cost adjustments to salary and benefits that might be uh a little up or down compared to uh FY 24 and then um if if the commission chooses I can Jess is here I could have her um if we wanted to discuss any of the uh uh greater HR um things so like the Citywide um any if you guys have any questions about the uh Health Health Plan Renewal or any the Open Enrollment um any position changes or any of uh questions about the uh adjustment as as it relates to the fair labor standards act stuff that we have yet to uh bring to the commission but hope to uh soon um or the adjustments to the uh Public Safety leadership pay um I think those are kind of like the major overarching uh HR topics um if the commission has any questions about those Jessica has uh expressed a uh willingness to come up here and answer any of those any questions on any of that yeah on the on the recruitment line item it's down $4,000 from uh from uh the previous budget but it's up uh $116,000 from 20123 I assume we spent I don't know how much money we spent on recruitment for the city manager position but I assume that's uh was that the four is that account for the $4,000 amount that we're lowering that and if so then what What might explain the difference between the 22,700 uh level of activity we had in recruitment in 2023 versus 36,000 now don't know if I asked hi good morning how is everyone um so partially what can explain it is as of right now we are fortunate enough to be in a position where we're looking more at retention than we are recruiting um however in previous years the focus was more on recruiting as it was to retention um which obviously is more expensive so some of these numbers do reflect in the city manager search um but also recruiting isn't just about like advertising and that type of thing when we have to recruit for Public Safety we're also looking at the cost of the backgrounds the cost of the medical the polygraph all those additional expenses that come along with that we were actually able to reduce those expenses this year because we are fully staffed it's reduced from 2000 from from uh last year's budget but it again it's about $14,000 from two years ago so I I don't have those specific numbers to be honest um the only thing that I can say is that there's a very real possibility the city manager recruitment kind of played a part in that commissioner are you looking at the act the total activity yes I'm looking at the FY 23 total activity yeah well the FY 23 total budget that's that's the the better number to look at because that's the the that's how you can tell tell the growth in what what has been allocated for uh recruiting so just because it's coming in at a little at less than budget um it's not necessarily an indication that there's um areas that are could be readily cut without having any sort of detrimental impact so take for example if all of a sudden we had a number of vacancies in some of our harder to recruit positions and we had cut 10,000 out of this recruitment and we needed to recruit then we wouldn't then we would be coming back and you know asking for you know additional money to go after to you know recruit for hardto find positions okay anyway here here will be my response to that and again I don't want to uh overdue on this but but we're budgeting about 14,000 more than we have historically spent historically meaning 2023 activity uh We've invested more money in the in the Police contract and the firemen's contract we've raised salaries uh for our non uh Union employees we've uh increased we've increased their benefits we're recovering more of their uh health care costs than in the past so I assume recruitment costs would be going down instead of up so that's that's my point I see that you are consistent about budgeting about the same amount for recruitment in each year but what we're not so so the the amount we're budgeting each year is consistent but the amount we're actually using is substantially less I I I would also you know uh point you to the fy2 24 year-to date column where we've already spent 33,000 this year I know I did see that and I assume the city manager recruitment had a lot to do with that there's I I I don't want to say exactly right offand but there's a very good chance that the city manager recruitment contract is actually charged to the non-departmental program because we knew it was going going to be such a significant cost that would have eaten up okay a huge portion of HRS not a routine yes regular and we've we've got a an account in in the non-departmental for just these sort of you know oneoff situations we hope to not have to recruit for a city manager every year Chuck stay with us okay thank you any other questions on HR okay do we have any public comments on the HR budget all right hearing none thank you Jessica we'll move into Finance all right I should have I shouldn't have given uh Michelle Mims the day off I would have made her come up here and defend it um but we've got a couple of adjustments uh in the finance uh now that we are fully staffed um we have an increase in personal services related to just normal salary increases and health benefit election changes um also increase in personal Ser Services related to filling positions that were vacant um as of so u u the city has a philosophy that all vacant positions um in the adopted budget are budgeted at the entry level and while it would be be great to you know be able to hire everybody in at the entry level that's not necessarily the case and so um just to U account for that adjustment um that's uh where the uh the salary increase is there and then another $2,000 increase and operating cost for uh Ed increase dues and educational costs uh adding the new budget analyst I've made sure Amy is all set up with uh or new Amy sorry I always have it's going to take a while um that I'm making sure that she's all set up with uh gfoa and fgfoa and all the memberships and she has been um I see her on those websites all the time looking for information and she also has um an education um training opportunity um sending her out of state actually uh here in a couple of months uh to go do a multi-day you know budget Workshop we're you know getting really in the weeds for it so uh good good things that uh we're uh we're spending money on and really investing um in our staff um not much else has really changed Finance really uh exist to serve all of our other departments and uh make sure that their day-to-day uh uh operations go as smoothly as possible uh if the commission has any questions I'd be uh happy to take them all right any questions on finance go ahead commissioner minning what's included in normal increase is H so basically what I what I do in My Philosophy for that is anything um if anything in Personnel or operating is greater if the change is greater than 5% my goal is to pull out items that get it get to the normal increase of just 5% so the normal increases and decreases could be um dues uh onetime uh costs let me I'm going through I'm going to look at the line item and give you some specifics um let's see our Ed education budget went up and and uh the dues those were the two primary uh drivers of the uh the increase 20 those two increases aren't $20,000 those yeah so let's see thank you arbitr the education was seems like most of it's coming from the person yeah it is most of the 75 so it's it's it's likely just um elections uh elections and salary adjustments yep so in your normal increase that's including salary that would include any sort of any sort of salary increase that's not readily explainable that's U um it's you know a couple of people you get the get their Merit and then they got the 3% on top of it so if somebody has one a member of my staff now has has a 6% pay raise you know that's it's not a not an insignificant amount of money but it's one that's um it's one that I'd rather just call under normal and not have to call it out uh big and specific like that um would you take that normal increase or decrease whatever it might be and somehow footnoted or asterisk it or something and tie it back into the actual budget uh yeah I can um because when I look at that I don't know what what's included okay yeah I can um that's that's why we have the footnote that the line item detail you can actually see all of the the changes um so this is just a way of showing like the major highlights the big things that are changing in the finance department just on that topic about normal increase and decrease the total uh amount uh combined amount from all the Departments was uh abnormal increases and decreases was $360,000 when you add them up in each department and that just seemed like a high a high number you'll see some other departments as we get further in here that that number is over $100,000 normal increases and decreases so anyway they're kind of big numbers to to not have a no a fmer variance explanation to go with it yeah anything that was um um any es that were related to Capital um I I tended to not list on here and just list as normal because we only budget for you know a replacement of a big thing every couple of years so that was uh but we can I can put in a line there that says like you know Capital increase decrease too so that we have that detail okay um any other questions all right thank you very much um do we have any public comment on finance all right hearing none we'll move into city clerk all right so city clerk is another one that has a a slight decrease and this was related to the one-time cost to digitize all the micro fish records and I believe that we're done with that Seline we are just about done we've completed over 8,000 images and now we're just doing the integration part of the data so working with it and collaborating with them so should be done this fiscal year and then the uh the normal increase and decrease would just be salary adjustments um um as Selene and tia um have had the their reviews in this past year and then the cola um effective October 1st uh basically just gets rolled into that normal increase and decrease and you also notice that we have officially formalized that um the receptionist and records Clerk so M our front desk uh position um is uh underneath uh the clerk's budget now um been working really with digitizing a bunch of old records and since that's um seems like it's a a function of the clerk um it seems like that's probably the best uh best place to house um that position and it's uh it seems like it's you know still falls under the admin realm uh so that that uh position is uh the customer service side of it still um reports up to you know uh the city clerk city manager um function okay the in the itemized budget uh for the city clerk there's $6,500 for off-site document doent storage and I was wondering if we still need that given that we're in this building we have the extra space we definitely need it yeah we have currently over 500 boxes there that we're going through this is through the years of having the service um so it's something that we're working on to improve it we couldn't keep it here it's really mainly to keep these documents safe it's best to keep them there at this time but it is our goal to reduce that in one day maybe maybe eliminate it great any other questions on city clerk on uh advertising for city clerk uh in 23 we spent $5,000 and year to date in 24 we've spent uh $1,959 and we're budgeting $115,000 for next year for advertising for legal ads uh that was a few years ago whenever the Tampa Bay Times stopped publishing the paper and they only started doing it on Sundays and Wednesdays um we uh just we were kind of limited in our days that we could advertise um in the year two since we have realized that the Wednesday Edition is remarkably cheaper than advertising in the Sunday edition so I know that it's my philosophy I know that Seline I think uh prioritizes that too to make sure that our ads are appearing in the Wednesday edition of the paper just to save that money um so and you can see that the actual or the uh the budget that we had for this year was 30,000 so we were cutting that one in half knowing that knowing that the 30,000 was way more than what we needed but based on um what's upcoming in the next year we know that there will probably be a couple of ordinances related to any sort of debt issuance um there will probably be a number of large contracts that will need to be advertised um any sort of construction bid over Noah correct me 200,000 I think has to be advertised I don't want to put you on the spot just like that it depends on the language in the city's procurement manual which I would have to reference to verify that's the requirement comes from certain certain projects over a certain amount must be advertised in the paper uh so there's just a we expect that there's there will be that we'll spend more than the $2,000 that we spent uh so far this year and next year any other questions all right any public comment on the city clerk budget [Music] okay hearing none we'll move into legal and I was uh it was unfortunate Jen was the only member of like the admin team that wasn't able to change her meeting date from the 9th to the 2nd uh but she's on vacation and she is much deserved so uh I'm not going to falter for that um there's not really any major change well there is a major change in the legal uh program uh there's a decrease in the operating cost um of 100 ,000 we had anticipated that uh potentially there might have been some litigation that the city might uh have experien this year um luckily we have avoided all of that so now that we do not think that that will be an issue uh in fy2 we are comfortable with removing that from the budget U and then everything else is just a normal increase based on um bmo's U contract okay any questions on legal claims and litigation I'm concerned that we may not have enough money there uh we spent 56,000 for claims and litigation in uh 23 our year-to-date activity in 24 is almost 29,000 and we're only budgeting 15,000 for that for next year so I guess my question is are we but do we have enough money in that account given given the history uh I this budget was provided to Jim and I I did ask if there were any adjustments that she anticipated and I uh she said that she was fine with the way it was presented so if the commission um so directs we we are you know I'm more than happy to make any adjustments based on um your input I would just verify that before the final budget's adopted that specific line item with Jen okay thank you any other questions any public comment on legal budget all right hearing none we'll move into it and Communications all right so it uh decrease in operating related to moving some Citywide expenses to the non-departmental program that was $1,000 there was a contraction ual line that was it it was a a line in it budget they were paying for something that was a Citywide expense and we try to keep anything that's like a city-wide expense in the non- departmental program just to make sure that the cost centers are you know as accurate as possible it's not necessarily an expense that Chris has to pay for it's just an IT expense overall uh and then just a normal uh decrease um uh really related to uh reductions in operating um I think Chris cut out some I I don't want to speak for Chris but there was a cut in some of the training and education budgets just because their staff is uh pretty well versed and I think that this year they had some uh unique one-time uh training that was going to be local and so this year's budget was a little bit higher than what would be a normal year for their training okay any questions on it and Communications all right hearing none any public comment for it and Communications all right here none we'll move on to non-departmental um would do uh do the commission rather keep on going with like the the Departments themselves and go to police sure that works I was going based on the um line item portion of the but we can that works yeah just just so that we can uh hit the uh the actual departments themselves um before we do that can you reference where we have police in the yes it would be three ring binder it would be starting on page [Music] 38 o1 5210 okay uh so the uh uh personal services cost related to the implementation of the uh the new PBA uh collective bargaining agreement uh there's an increase in the operating expenses related to Greater cost cost for vehicle maintenance um as we have increased the number of vehicles in the fleet the maintenance cost of those vehicles um is going up and uh another $2,000 increase for the operating expenses due to the need to replace um official uniforms and then this is to commissioner Dicky's uh uh point about this being a larger normal increase and decrease that's U likely due to I think I probably only put the salary impact into that 33 and so that doesn't include The Fad and taxes which would be part of that 137,000 increase uh the communications um increased a little bit just because of some of the specialized equipment that PD has to have uh they pay for their own uh water and electricity costs or allocated uh to police and those um were increased uh the law law enforcement liability went up um $1,000 or so uh mentioned the repairs to vehicles and the uh uh building uh repairs uh so there's a u the big increase in that one is the addition of the speed uh speed laser certification that's basically for our radar cart to make sure that or not the radar cart but the actual uh radar guns themselves that the officers have um education and travel increased a little bit just because of uh inflationary forces uh gas and oil have uh been increased by 30% that's somewhat reflective of pricing and somewhat reflective of uh the new take-home uh privileges given to the officers and I think that's about that highlights the uh the major changes that kind of fall into that 137,000 and I believe Chief is not here oh he is here if you guys have any uh questions uh for PD okay any questions for the police department all right any public comment on the police department budget sure question procedural question you come to the podium still yeah bar hoey 225 104th uh just a procedural question as we're going through this there are um many areas that there's Fleet and Equipment but I'm looking at the Consolidated one not by department will that be something we can get to and comment there or on each individual Department's allocation because they are grouped together in a a fleet listing in in over five years sure okay U that'll be a part of the CIP conversation after we after we get through the Departments thank you yep no not a problem that's why I wanted to get through like the the operating changes because these are you know it's HR needs a little bit more money for this we don't need a little bit we need a little bit less for that so these are kind of like the uh the easy changes to go through it's the the capital is where we we know we want to spend some time y all right okay so the any other public comment on police all right we'll move into fire all right so we got the the fire and EMS uh program uh yes and these are combined in the uh the the budget document but they are separate uh programs in the uh the line item detail uh so again the uh increase in personal services related to the I contract um increase in operating expenses related to an increase in the available EMS funding uh from the county um this is account that's used to balance the program totals um so that the EMS Revenue equals our EMS expenses and that's offset by County funding correct so any whatever um and the amount of funding we had requested from the county um kind of assumed a worst case scenario for for the Ia contract so I think that we will be um we should be well funded for EMS uh next year uh 15,000 or nearly $166,000 increase in operating costs for the uh replacement of some Mission critical equipment um increase in vehicle repairs um as we will discuss later on the fire apparatus apparati um are reaching end of life and we actually have replacement for two of those uh pieces of equipment in the next 5 years um a reduction in capital cost due to the one-time nature of the expense in FY 24 and then uh $100,000 for the normal increases and decreases so let me see if I can uh pull out some of those just to highlight um contractual services are up um actually Chief if you uh if you if you want to mention any of your highlights uh oh we I I do know that uh we have added um oh Chief is coming up here now I was about to mention your uh your travel good morning all morning morning Chief check your watch to make sure it was nine more minutes morning um yeah so thank you to Mike for helping prepare the budget and for yall for considering it um as always 90% of my budget is Personnel my operating budget is is mostly the Personnel that's our biggest resource that's where we pour most of our our money into is developing training maintaining those standards and qualifications that we have to have to have to provide the high quality service so um you know clearly 200 $2 of the um the budget variances were because of the commission approved um CBA so does wonders for recruitment retention um values our folks for the work they do some of the smaller items that we had in the budget that are different um I don't know if you're all aware but uh two years ago I was elected to the Executive Board of the Florida Fire Chiefs Association it's a four-year commitment and as you roll through that um you go from second vice president all the way through president and past president um it it's the responsibilities increase at the state level there's more travel so we had never had any travel funding in our budget we thought it prudent to add a little bit the association covers most of it um some of the stuff like perdm would be would be handled by the city city does get a great benefit for that um we get to help work on legislation up in Tallahassee regionally as well southeast United States so um we can look out for the city's best interests in a bigger Forum so I think it's worthwhile to for the city to spend some money on that um we did have a big change to our national fire protection um Association personal protective gear standard um we're having to do annual testing and repairs um to our bunker gear which has a general lifespan of 10 years um they're now requiring it to be tested and any I mean like the double stitching has to be repaired in place places you have to put a little patch here patch there and because it's that dupon high quality fabric it gets expensive so we added some increases there um we're replacing Furniture in the fire station day room to the best of my knowledge that's older than my tenure here and it's pretty ratty um it is a health hazard they come back from calls with Uniforms on and sit in this it's got to be able to be wiped clean um right now it's got some spots that are the pleather is missing let's just say that so we're going to replace those um we had a mandate from the county to replace uh two of our pieces our mobile data um computers in the apparatus um it and I went round and round on this we we don't feel that the county is well we feel the county is requiring a higher level of memory than we think we need but to work on the Consolidated system system with police sheriff and all the EMS and fire providers in the county they're requiring 32 gigs of memory ours currently has one has eight one has 16 so we're going to have to upgrade those and that's a um $10,600 cost between the two of them so those are just some of the some of the quick highlights um yeah I was just going to get to that one so our SCBA which you'll see um our contained breathing apparatus is in the 5year CIP they're nearing end of life and they're getting more expensive um this year we paid more than double what we budgeted to have them serviced and repaired to keep them operating so that was a significant increase one of the new things we're doing for our folks is we're purchasing um uh they're they're called a lever Escape system they're a bailout uh kind of like a um propelling system if our firefighters were working on a second third or fourth floor uh fire and they had to go out not the way they came in because of changing conditions out of window um off a balcony that kind of thing um these hook to their bunker gear uh through their waist and shoulders and they can connect um to part of the building and just repel off the back of the building as a safety feature um we elected not to purchase 15 of these one for each person we decided as a cost-saving measure to buy five which is one for each staff seat so they'll rotate amongst the three shifts so that was a bit of a new expense for us and I'll pause there for questions one size fits all yes sir one size fits most all of our folks anyway okay what's the life spin on those that's a good question um I think as long as they're cared for and maintained should be indefinite they don't have they're not fabric so um other than the belt but they're not uh as long as they don't take like a caraban or takes a Hard Knock You have to take it out of service as long as we're careful with them I'm indefinite we have a backup one so one's out I'd like to amend my budget to buy a backup one as well just asking because they do go down and I'm you know former surgery nurse so we we know when things right good call yeah um we do we do have a local supplier our our regular gear supplier carries these in stock um he was the one who recommended them to us so we can get one if we need one I I'd say that' be sufficient okay thank you thank you though your repair Maintenance building equipment budget is about looks like spent about 20,000 over budget last year what was that attributed to um was it building or was it uh vehicle I know we went way over on the vehicles it could be vehicles or we're nearing end of life on the no not repair to Vehicles repair Maintenance building equipment it was budgeted at 13450 and actual projected spend is 34450 but year-to dat activity is only 12 so I'm not sure if we're anticipating oh got it yeah um thank you Mike we have not implemented um repairs to the fire station that we had planned um we did add new flooring only because the flooring was coming up and people were literally stubbing their toes trying to get out of the station on calls a night um the firefighters actually installed most of that flooring themselves to save money um one of the other things we're doing is we have five people on duty at all times and we have one shower so knowing that we're trying to replace the building we um want to keep that you know upgrades to a minimum so we're going to try and have a um one of those plastic inserted showers installed in one of our restrooms so that is where we're we and we just haven't been able Public Works has not been able to get the contractor to do such a small job we've had it scheduled a few times and they' backed out but um it is a safety issue we we want to get the carcinogens off after a fire um they're working in EMS situations you you get out of bed you go to a call and the person is a heavy smoker and you just smell like cigarette smoke you want to go back to bed you want to take a shower first and there's a line currently four deep for that shower okay the under on the EMS line item budget uh under miscellaneous charges in 2023 you may have already mentioned this you see you know this one's coming right it's $2,100 in 2023 and 20 24 year to date $1,000 next year you're budgeting $147,000 so that's your big and you may have mentioned it in some of the things that you've already talked about yes so so the EMS Authority contract we contract with the EMS authority to provide Advanced life support first responder Services um they require our budget so that they can do their County budget prep in April well before we have a well-defined budget well before we knew what our collective bargaining agreement would would yield and require so we have to give them a worst case scenario um their budget only has about 10 line items line items so when we're done with this Mike and I struggle how do we accurately record on our extensive budget where we're spending all that money um potentially and and just so everyone knows that we only request reimbursement from the county for actual dollar spend but we have to have this budget that's that's got this other money in it in case we do spend that much money but we can't quantify it because there's no line item for it I know that's a roundabout answer but well can you scroll up a little bit your other operating costs are going up 74% year to year which is a substantial amount uh yeah and 145,000 of it is in this on line item alone so is that something we can go back and look at I I would I would not be I mean we can do it one of two different ways um if if we you know reduce this to a number that we think it might be more realistic then we would also have to reduce the revenue uh accordingly um that matches it because that line is just in there to balance whatever the EMS revenue is for the city so the EMS Revenue line is 1 Point whatever million the EMS program equals the same amount of money so that on paper we say EMS program it costs this much and we're going to get this much back from the county for EMS so that we show on paper it's a zero sum program so we could go back and if if if we wanted to reduce this line item I would also reduce the revenue accordingly so I mean it it would just be a packaging way but one that if the commission so chose you know we could do yeah I I think we should uh reflect the the most realistic uh number there possible so if it's not going to be 147,000 if it's going to be 2,000 I think that's what we should reflect there and adjust the revenue accordingly I realized it like you said it's a zero some we haven't picked anything up but uh but we've got them in the right accounts understood and and the only potential Pitfall there is if we we do wind up spending more than we we think um we will not be able to get that back from the county if we submit well I mean we would we I mean we could we would be able to but if we if we needed to use money above whatever the commission so chooses we would have to go out and do a budget amendment and an ordinance which requires two meetings so if if EMS needs $5,000 at the end you know this time next year and we think that they're going to exhaust it the commission would have to recognize that extra revenue and um increase the budget accordingly if if not we wouldn't be um we wouldn't have the sufficient budget to make to you know meet those needs right we also run the risk we run the risk of um the the county either our the lower of our adopted budget or what we propos in in April is the cap of what we can reimburse for so we'd run that risk yeah and and and if we any sort of rolling back at this point um would also harm us in the future for any uh request so it's yes yeah we're only allowed to submit a uh a 3% increase annually uh without it having to go to the board of County Commissioners for approval so we try to keep the number that we submit to the county there well it's gone up from last year the budget was 27450 right that's what they call an extraordinary increase okay um that's their term and um they do allow for it of the 18 uh Municipal and special fire districts uh 17 of us had extraordinary increases last year and again it it ties back to the market for personnel um the cbas just countywide have have gone very high and that be that being you know 90% of all of our budgets that's what drives it so this would go toward this would go towards hiring another paramedic or what would what would this money be potentially used for these can be used for anything within the EMS program the the em like the county has like Chief said like 10 lines so it's salaries it's benefits it's taxes it's contractual support it's supplies we have other things that don't necessarily fit into that so they have another category that they just call miscellaneous other charges so if it doesn't fit into any of the County's categories the balance of the revenue that they have agreed to provide for us the next year that balance just goes into that miscellaneous other charges so that the EMS program and the EMS Revenue are the same number on paper because we don't ever want to show that yeah I I think I get all that I'm just not understanding why we're going from 27450 to 147,000 because we we had requested a a significant increase why did we request antip ating the collective bargaining agreement being much uh much larger impact than what it turned out to be it's just odd that you would put that in a a miscellaneous operational account instead of a Personnel account but anyway we know what the budget is now it looks like this is improperly budgeted uh and I think we should adjust it because one of the things that the that the public is looking at and we are too is how much operating costs are going up and this is a big ticket item it's uh overstating our uh operating cost increase by in this account by 436 I'm sure it gets rolled in but I think we should restate that and if we have to restate the revenue to balance it that's that's fine we could try to reallocate this this amount you know where where it fits better into ours so we'll we'll uh we'll give it a look at it and uh uh we'll have a a revision for the adopted budget okay thank you okay any other comments does that include education as well professional membership it does yep professional members memberships is a line item um renewal of certifications is a line item as is um we we pay for the uh new hires to go from EMT to paramedic we cover that on both fire and EMS side and um continuing education as well and that's also required by the county to be yes ma'am okay that's what I thought just want to make sure and just back to the miscellaneous other charges I don't want you to misconstrue the line of questioning it's not no I mean if the if we have money available from the county that they're allocating for EMS services I don't want to put us in a position just be if we're changing the budget where we're not able to utilize that funding we'll we'll take a better look a little bit more transparency or explanation of absolutely we'll do mayor all right any other questions on fire and [Music] EMS okay do I have any public comment on fire or EMS we want to talk about yeah oh uh yeah while we're here while Chief's up here we can go ahead and uh talk about the Emergency Management uh budget too okay which we may be needing soon so for the Emergency Management budget while you're thumbing through there and finding it um it's on page 69 of our spiral notebooks this is where we we budget anything that's uh cross departmental that we do for instance we don't have a dedicated emergency manager or Emergency Management Department we handle that in the fire department um but it does it crosses police EMS um Building Department Public Works and fire so we have the specific budget for it um you know one of one of the big drivers is one second can you we're I don't know that we're all page 69 in the budget and then it's page 34 in the line item 69 you 69 in the budget in the spiral bound okay page 34 and that everyone got it I'm getting there sorry okay got it thank you thanks yeah so the only the only driver of change in this one is um where in the communications line item for the satellite phone service it's actually um our satellite backup internet service it's uh it's a starlink system so we own the hardware uh we have to buy a subscription for $250 a month what we had done last year when we initially purchased the system was we tried to be efficient and only turn it on during Hurricane Season um what we came to realize was as that system starlink becomes more popular when we go to activate it every June if there are many users in this part of the the the world we may not get a spot back so we need to keep that activated all year long um another benefit to that is should our servers go down at any point during the year or we lose Internet we can run up to the to the roof of this building put it on and we'd have we'd be back up and running so we thought for an additional $250 a month for 6 months that was was a good Change Plus we've had some really wicked winter storms okay all right any questions on the Emergency Management any public comment all right thank you Chief thanks thank you Chief like our next section is Community Development so be page 56 in your spiral bound and 50 in the uh line item you're really letting the directors off easy this year you're doing a I you know I I volunteered I said uh I can I'll take the Rotten Tomatoes and the Rubber Chickens all right so uh Community Development uh not too much uh to change in this one uh 28,500 is an increase in personal services with the Department being fully staffed now um again as I mentioned with uh vacant positions U being budgeted at the entry level now that we are fully staffed um the uh Personnel Services budget uh is reflective of them being fully staffed um there's also an increase in the capital uh to purchase um a second code enforcement um electronic vehicle so both of our uh code enforcement officers uh can make site visits uh right now with only one of them out there only one of them can be outdoing enforcement at any time um and then the uh the rest of the program is just normal increases and decreases related to uh benef like uh benefits elections or um operating onetime operating costs uh we also in the code enforcement um we had budgeted 50,000 for this year uh for the uh short-term rental tracking software uh and in some of the um estimates that we've gotten from the the vendors that seem to be more robust um that the increase is actually about 30,000 more so rather than carrying forward that 50,000 and adding 30 next year um we've Reb budgeted it for fy2 at the full 80,000 um but that again that will be subject to the commission greenlighting um any sort of uh tracking software for that short-term rental um but we did just want to uh include it in the budget um should the commission you know sometime in in next fiscal year uh want to pull the Trigg Tri on that one and and get that software up and running um if it's not the will of the commission to do so we are happy to uh strip it out for the proposed budget or the adopted budget right but you said that that is re-budget so we don't have $50,000 rolling to the fund balance plus the 880,000 so just to just to avoid the carry forward stuff because we haven't spent anything yet um we'll just drop the 50,000 at the end of this year it'll go unspent and then re-budget a full 80 next year rather than doing 50 and adding 30 and it's to the whole carry forward question it's just cleaner um if we do it this way okay is that everything for those those are the highlights unless uh unless the commission has any specific questions about uh uh planning or uh Code Compliance any questions and this will provide more weekend coverage I I would assume so but I can't speak for uh Katherine and I don't want to give uh Philip or Jackie any overtime that uh they don't want um but I I would assume that it would uh provide uh for greater coverage I know Jackie's been working some weekends so I I would venture to say that it would give them uh more coverage oh here we are yes we are working towards more weekend coverage we also have some early late coverage that we're doing for sea turtles and lighting um right now thank you while Katherine's here any other questions for her all right thank you thank you K all right any public comment for our community development department all right hearing none public works so Public Works uh this one uh surprisingly doesn't really have well it does have some V budget variances but they're all explained by Capital um so there's an increase in the operating expenses related to uh lead certification for the public works facility and the uh Master lift station reconstruction um that's a cost that's split with the Wastewater fund so there'll be an equal amount uh budgeted in that fund as well um and there's an in increase in capital reflected of the city-wide projects that are reflected in uh the municipal Services uh program most of our larger uh Capital items that aren't uh debt financed or U budgeted in this 5410 program so it makes from year to year their capital budget being like the the biggest driver of the change and then the 36,000 just normal increases and decreases so that'd be operating additions and salary adjustments and we will uh like I said we will be going through all of the uh the CIP here momentarily okay just a little question on the I I created a separate worksheet for the Personnel related accounts salaries overtimes FICA and that type of stuff and every one of your uh departments P expense was 7.65 which is what we expected it to be but for some reason the causeway Pike expense was 8.4% so I I don't know why that was that's probably just a a weird calculation error in the formula but I'll I'll I will uh yeah every one of them was 7.65 except that one it would probably just be a little calculation ER but I'll go back through and double check the math okay thank you you don't need to check the math now just I'm I'm making a note so I uh remember to do it all right thanks um we also U there's some within uh Public Works uh general fund itself uh we made some uh assignment adjustments looking at uh the causeway and the municipal Services programs uh there were a number of uh positions that have been charged to the causeway that aren't necessarily um uh positions that are there to extend the life of the causeway and so even though they're it's general fund bucket either way just to make that program a little bit cleaner we've we've pulled out those ancillary positions that don't have a direct um impact on the causeway just to be a little bit more transparent and and cleaner of of what's reflected in that program so again it's it's all it's zero sum it's just moving from one general fund program to another but it uh allows us to report the uh the causeway program a little bit more accurately a little bit more uh Faithfully to the to what uh it's set up for under Municipal facilities and grounds um traffic traffic signal maintenance has gone up from 7500 to 177,000 is that attributable to the replacement Mast arm that is to replace the fancy decorative base of the uh traffic light at 7 not 79th at uh uh Paradise Lane that uh it had been it's been struck by a couple of vehicles over the year one of them U really significantly and I if Believe Me Stacy and Mike please come up here or throw something at me if I'm speaking at a term but I'm pretty sure that that um that it's to replace that decorative Mast arm which I know has been hit a couple of times but that's the uh I believe that is actually the only signal that we still have that we pay for to the county all the of them are F dot signals so that's that's the one so you can we can say we're a one traffic like [Laughter] town on in Municipal facilities and grounds on Professional Services it's it's up 30% uh over over a prior Year's budget but it's also uh up significantly from 2023 and 2024 activity can you comment on that so that would be that the 70,000 for the uh the lead certification for next year is the is the main driver um uh for the fy2 for FY 24 I have to pull up that budget real quick so happy I have these things electronically uh Professional Services uh last year was U all we have in that one is grant writing but there was a carry forward um I'll have to look and see what that carry forward was from 23 to 24 to be able to to give you a definitive answer okay oh yes Stacy thank you uh the facility master plan um was budgeted in uh 23 was carried forward at 24 uh it's basically kind of a a cookbook or a recipe of how to um basically a status of all of the city's facilities uh maintenance plan for um basically a a third party to come in and verify the needs that uh uh staff in the community have identified with different uh amenities uh throughout the community and a way to uh preserve them and extend their life uh you know investing investing a little bit to repair things is much cheaper than waiting for it to fail and collapse and having to rebuild it so I think that maintenance plan um is just designed to to do that is uh uh give us a a road map of uh to prioritize U facility repairs throughout the city that's in the Professional Services yes that was that was carried forward from uh 20 I believe from 23 into 24 so that's why the uh projected actual in 20 yes that's why the actual projection actual in 24 um is 85,000 it's reflective of that uh maintenance plan uh that was carried forward from 23 and we're assuming that we'll be we'll be doing that plan um okay any other questions yeah I have a question I guess this probably more for the city manager than it is for the uh the finance folks um you know we we've talked a little bit about uh commercial uh solid waste so the uh the the bigger trucks and and everything else and um and taking a look at possibly at some point Contracting that out now you're probably not up to speed yet on it so I Look to Gary a little bit um on uh you know if if we're going to do that this is the time to to take a look you know it's kind of tough to put together the Public Works budget if we've not had the discussion excuse me what uh what the plan is and Mike alluded to it earlier in his budget talk is uh the analysis on whether or not to contract out commercial waste is going to take place this fiscal year okay so the assumption is we're going to fund it for this year the analysis and cost benefit will be done uh in the next probably in the next three or four months uh at which point that we'll bring forward to you both the results of that cost benefit analysis and a recommendation probably be in the spring in prep for the 26 budget and we can we'll discuss that a little bit better once we get into the uh the Enterprise funds in the CIP conversation you see uh commissioner the uh commercial Solid Waste trucks aren't even scheduled until 27 and 28 okay so before we make any of those big Investments we want to have that analysis done and a recommendation made great thank you it's like we're trying to be strategic or something all right any other questions M no I just want to make sure that if moving forward if we do discuss privatization of solid waste then we also look into our special services that we provide for our residents of the pickups and the extra little things that we do all right um I have a card from Patty penano P pensano at 15 treasur Lane I think mine was just answered by John um I had on mine about Outsourcing I never ever hear anything talked about about Outsourcing anything in the city and that's my expertise that's what I did for 30 years at International Paper so I'd like to see that analysis and how that's all done um but the garbage trucks is perfect for something like that to be done so that's what mine was all about so I'll just let you do you have any other areas that you think might be right for outsourcing well um of course you've got the police and the fire which are very large areas and the fire seemed like it was expensive but living here I like having that in my backyard but I would still say it's a great exercise to go through to see what the expense is what we're doing uh what you can do to Outsource that and to make um our budgets much lower here so but that's kind of where my expertise lies for the last 40 years okay all right thank you any other comments on Public Works sure um Ray and then Mark we take break getak so I have an expertise as well I've worked for many years in the waste industry um and since we're talking about the garbage I don't know that this is the proper time and if it's not just shut me down and tell me to come back at the proper time um but um I I I just want to say don't be afraid of these kinds of things because um my expertise has mainly been in the uh postcollection and Disposal but I have a lot of interface with the collection side as well and uh you could put rfqs out that are that are menu driven uh you shouldn't be worried about the people um I can tell from experience they will pick the people up and if you put that in your RFQ and these are the requirements that you're asking for if you ask them to buy your trucks they will do that they will do a whole host of things it's just a matter of sitting down thinking about it they will provide you dedicated people that as a call line to take care of things I do agree there are certain particular services that uh City treasur Island does that should stay such as the grapple truck for you know yard waste and those kinds of things but also if we have a bad storm event those grapple trucks and those trucks what have you will come in very handy to clean our city back up and get it back and running so there there are some things that I think you should really think uh hard about I realize a lot of this has just passed through you're not doing any more somebody else is doing it and we get a bill right so but there's also some other liability issues that are major uh I used to work for Waste Management for 10 years and I can tell you when a large garbage truck kills somebody so anyways I think my mic went out maybe not uh anyways and and I'm available if anybody would ever like to talk more about this but you like I said you can put an RFQ that's menu driven exactly what you want to do and uh I think you'll get some really good response I know of and I've worked for for and an engineering Consulting capacity for like five different waste companies so if I can help you in anyway let me know thank you thank you Mark hoey thank you mayor Mark hoey 225 144th Avenue number 110 um I'm not going to belabor the uh Solid Waste other than one thing Mike you mentioned that we don't have um maybe big Capital expenses for a few years but I'll tell you what we do with solid waste could have a significant impact on the scope size and cost of the new Public Works facility that's being proposed so I think there is a a convergence and a timing that needs to be discussed before we do one or the other because they are affecting both okay couple of things and I just found this this is Department 5410 so it may be in the right place or not but that's where I came up with it y you're good okay okay um $70,000 for lead certification now um I'm looking to say what is the benefit to the city I understand the efficiency that we will gain from lead certified buildings going going forward but what are we paying for the certification of existing property other than maybe a plaque on the wall so that's a question let me get through these because we may not I may not have the time to do it uh $440,000 for Grant Administration and I understand that is a huge thing for us to try to seek out and find grants are we third partying that that we don't have somebody in the staff that has the expertise to seek out or or owns that responsibility but that we're using somebody else to chase grants um we did find out where the $650,000 Transformer is that needs to be relocated that wasn't clear until this morning um but is there not an involvement of Duke power in this is there not a some they have some play in our efforts to renovate change reconstruct I don't know it just seems interesting that we're paying the full boat on that relocation uh $85,000 for EV charging stations at the new Public Works uh my only question there listen we all understand the EV green concept I get that we just spent a day Tuesday talking about Elevate TI and the struggles we have right now with flooding of Roads Etc under our current conditions that's not going to change tomorrow the next day or the next day that's a long-term project but understand low Vehicles like those License Plate Reader cars are going to be very sub to damage at any point when we have that Inland Street flooding from rain or whatever so either we're going to have to take them out of service or move them to Higher Ground or something that's just something we need to consider before we Electrify all of the fleet and then uh kind of tied together is the 400,000 for the design and construction of the marina or really reconstruction along with with the 550 550,000 for the seaw wall along that behind the Public Works former uh City that's two large sums along with the Public Works building are we are we really at the point where we're tying this together into a comprehensive plan for 108 uh rebuild reenvisioning what that could be or are we fixing things that used to be there yeah we'll fix the seaw wall yeah we'll do a new Marina shouldn't that be part of a more broad uh Redevelopment plan of that very precious property that's on the waterfront there so I thank you and again if there's someone Mike that can address those couple of questions I'll yield to them thank you thank you all right um there were a couple questions in there if we I think that we those are probably best addressed whenever we to CIP okay all of those seem to be CIP related questions the lead lead certification yeah because that's tied to the the uh the building itself so it'll come up in that conversation and the Transformer relocation Transformer is also part of a CIP project okay and the electric uh stations too I I believe that we evacuate every vehicle off the island whenever there's a storm okay uh Greg Smith thanks mayor Commissioners uh I wasn't sure we were going to talk about the Outsourcing of of garbage at this point but but since we started it I I want you to go back and look at Mike munger's presentation uh early on he said when he was going over some of the changes he said recycling is going to go up 3% a year which is outsourced our Solid Waste pickup is going to go up 10% a year that's not a red flag that's a Scarlet Red Flag okay I mean that's us doing it ourselves is going up 10% because we're going to be hung up on lots of equipment lots of stuff that somebody else can take care of recycling up 3% just take a look at that all right thank you any other public comment on public works not related to our CIP projects all right hearing none um it is 12:35 sorry to [Laughter] call up here ear so we are we've been we do do this to Kathy almost every year Linds you're the Lindsay Buckingham we're going to go ahead and break for lunch for half an hour and we will reconvene around 105 so thank you everyone e