e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e countown all right good evening everyone welcome to the May 15 um 2024 special meeting of the Board of Commissioners um if you could all please join me we'll get started with the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of alance to the of the United States of America and to the republ for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right roll call please commissioner Toth here vice mayor doctor here commissioner minning here commissioner dicki here mayor pay here thank you all right next we have um public comments for non-agenda items do we have any public comments this evening for anything that we don't have on our agenda all right hearing none we'll move into our items of business and first up is first and only item is selection of city manager finalists and I'll turn it over to Gary or Doug okay guess it's defaulting to me thank you appreciate being here this evening and uh appreciate the time and attention that you've all probably provided and I'll beg for a little bit of forgiveness this is the stage of the process where um we hand off some homework to you and you've all had a chance to now get to know your 11 semi-finalist in a little greater detail um when we last left we had went through this process where we selected a number of folks that you wanted to learn more about and I I mentioned that at this stage of the game it's it's a lot like the analogy of peeling the onion skins off of the layers off onion skin you start to get a little bit more than just understanding kind of where they've worked and now you can get a feel for their style and how they communicate the type of experience they bring to the table and how they would they would address some of the challenges and issues that you're facing here so you get to know these candidates a little bit better and I said it's sometimes a lot easier to do the the triaging at this stage than it is initially because now you know more about these folks as well and and also there's there's fewer of them uh we did lose a few candidates that were involved in other searches I mentioned that that was likely to be the case and so you still end it up at the end of the day with 11 candidates for your consideration and for the benefit of the viewing audience and those that may be in the audience here tonight uh what we ended up doing is asking all of the uh semi-finalists to participate in a variety of exercises um one was to incorporate their responses in written form U to a fairly detailed questionnaire that talks about their background their history their management style uh why they left their previous positions anything that might be of concern to a future employer U but also uh asked several questions of things that I thought would be of importance to you based upon the challenges and issues that you all identifi and your staff identified uh that you're grappling with and the next manager coming in is going to have to get their arms around relatively quickly on major projects and initiatives so you could start to understand that um the other piece that we asked them to do is to uh complete responses uh for timed uh pre-recorded one-way interviews uh and for any of you I've spoken to a few your colleagues this evening um that's probably the most challenging thing you can imagine we ask our candidates to do because they literally are talking to a blank screen there's no visual cues there's nothing coming back at you and I was joking with some of your staff members I since I've been doing this with sgr for about eight years now uh preo that was a really challenging aspect for a lot of people uh postco we went through covid everybody get used to Virtual meetings and Technology but even in those most of those were two-way processes um and then obviously afterwards I will tell you of the thousands of of video interviews I see on a regular basis the quality is much better now than it was pre-co people kind of gotten better with it but I will also tell you um to give some Grace to folks as you're looking at those videos and reacting to them because uh unless you've actually took anywhere from two to four minutes to respond to a question and literally just talking to a screen you can appreciate it's a bit challenged so I what I can tell you with with No Reservations I have never had a candidate that didn't interview better in person than they did in the video video interviews but that being said my clients all love the video interviews my candidates all hate the video so appreciate your your your patience as you're working through that um we also mentioned uh we asked the candidates to identify in the material that they responded to in the questionnaire about anything that might be of concern to you as a future employer um we'll talk a little bit about what we do at this stage of the effort but I will tell you we we also initiated what we call a stage one media search Lexus Nexus Media search if you will um to kind of understand where their controversies may be and I will tell you that for the although it gets colored a little bit in the way individual candidates respond there's nothing that came up in that stage one media searches that they didn't disclose in some way shape or form but there's various articles and we can talk through those if if those are a question or an issue for you as well so our goals tonight as we go forward um so I will for the benefit of the viewing audience and those here um you had you had a lot of material to review in a couple weeks to do that and so I appreciate all the hard work this is clearly the most heavy lift that you get in this process to get down to this point you everything else gets a little bit easier although the decision of ultimately selecting your your U your successor manager is certainly a significant decision but our approach tonight is to go through and have you in a variety of ways we can talk through how you might want to get to this point but what the goal here is to you've all probably seen and started if you've done the homework ranking your candet in terms of the the the methodology we've provided um and what you will typically find is that there are going to be a few candidats that probably all or most of you like there'll be a few candidats that none of you really feel strongly about and then there'll be some in the middle and our goal is to help facilitate a conversation amongst what you see and the types of things that you either resonated with you or of concern to you and my job is to help you kind of facilitate that process with a goal of trying to get to around three to five folks that you want to bring in for interviews um and so as we do that I would just caution you that it's a very you saw from the material that you got from the semi-finalist many if if not most of these candidates are involved in other searches it's a very competitive marketplace right now and so um even though you may end up saying hey these were my top three I would encourage you to to widen that pool a little bit more because by the time we get to the next stage they may be ahead of us in those searches and you may find yourself backed into a corner with one or two candidates if you select too few of the semi-finalist so we typically in today's Marketplace look to say try to find around five and sometimes you'll put one or two candidates maybe in reserve if one of those other candidates were to uh to step away from that point but we'll we'll figure out where you land as a group as we work through that and our goal here is to try to get somewhere around that three to five folks um as always I always anytime I meet with oh yes I'm sorry commissioner uh there's always the option to redo this yes at the end of the day if you find that that's you're not satisfied with the candles you've got we are with you in this process we'll go back out in the marketplace there's no cost for a professional fee if we remarket the you know there's advertising cost and the video cost and all those things that would be in a subsequent search but that goes all the way through the end if you get to the end of the line commissioner and you don't think you've got the right person we will redo the search and that that presents some challenges but we can talk through that as necessary we're here to get you all the way across the Finish Line yeah with a candidate that that you feel comfortable with as a group so um so uh as I mentioned anytime I meet with a group I always like to tell you kind of where we're at and after we finished the task what's coming next so you know what to expect there's going to be some decisions that I'm going to need from you that about the process that we're going to be uh utilizing for your on-site interviews and some of the steps involved there and just to confirm everybody's got things on the calendar as well so uh our goals tonight are kind of those tasks in those orders as we go forward so um you saw the slide for met before when we were was here several weeks back um you triage the effort and at that stage you didn't know much about these folks you were relying on a lot of insight and Impressions that we and you had on the folks uh because we don't spend a whole lot of time at that time we we do some level of triaging but we really wait to this step to get to the next level and we're now at the semi-finalist level and as I mentioned you're now understanding much more about their style and their background and the history and their their approaches to your challenges and um we start to then move from this point the work isn't necessarily over excuse me I hit the wrong button there um the work isn't over by the time they get to your finalist what we'll be asking them to do is some additional work and then obviously at that point we do criminal history credit reference checks um the um we typically have them involved in in additional writing and and PowerPoint type exercises as well uh so we're going to basically and then we do a second much more elaborate stage two media search so that we kind of understand everything that's out there on them beyond what we've done thus far so um the goal here is every time you go to the next level we just peel those onion skin levels back a little bit further and that's where you want to continue to invest your time and your resources on the candidates that you're most interested in from there so um in no the order that we've done in the past um and the order I believe that they appeared in your uh your applicant briefing book or your semi plist briefing book we typically take the candidates by alphabetical order by alphabetized on their first name um so these are not any particular order go forward I know in talking with Jessica and your HR department there was a desire to see if we could at least um do a slide uh with each of the candidates to put a face and a name and their background together for you because I know after a while sometimes it gets difficult to keep track of who they are so I have What I've Done um and I'll I'll give some um deference to my candidates we normally ask for head shots at the finalist level and when we found that you wanted to do this um we uh we didn't really have those in place so what I try to do appreciate appreciate my photo editing skills I looked at their video video interviews and tried to snap as as best as I could their their pictur so if you're concerned about what they look like you can blame that on me and not the candidates because I tried to do I gave them as much grace as I could to try to find the best shots that I could for the circumstances but hopefully that works out for you to understand them um so mayor we can do this in a couple different ways I'm more than glad to just quickly or if you want to take candidate by candate and talk through your thoughts and opinions about the candidates and then vot at the end on similar to the triage process we did with the one two or three model we've used uh I'm welcome to kind of quickly go through these candidates just so you can get reacquainted and and there's a benefit of knowing their background and their history um some groups like to go right to voting and kind of see where you stand others like to talk through each of the candidates or the candidates that you feel strongly about um because I guarantee you you some some of you will see things in one candidate that really resonates with you and may fall flat with another and so what I've always found it to be helpful both as city manager and now as a recruiter is to kind of hear where you are collectively and you get to hear where you are collectively on these issues and sometimes just as you debate public policy uh a commissioner May raise something that maybe you didn't think about that makes some sense so um I'll pause and and go back to you mayor as to how you and your colleagues would like to proceed if you want to kind of walk through each of these candidates and talk through them first and then Vote or if you want to take a straw poll vote initially so I'll turn it back yeah I I think that that sounds like a good approach does that work for everyone I mean we only have 11 so may run through their brief background and then have a chance for each one of us to provide any comments that we might have come across as we read through and watch their videos and thoughts about each person that work thanks should we uh ask our questions or or make whatever points we want to make as we review each or wait till on through the I I would I would certainly I would certainly recommend that because that's when at the end what I'm what I think you're heading towards mayor is after they go through the 11 candidates then you're going to cast a vote so it's now each candidate would be appropriate time commissioner to to raise those questions either questions comments or concerns okay make sense sounds good okay great all right well I'm going to make the assumption that you have their resumés and all the material and your briefing books in front of you so this is really just a high level as I said the first candidate by alphabetized approach on the first name is Gary Vargo uh Gary is currently up in the uh litz litz uh area in the Philadelphia area of Pennsylvania and working uh in a private sector group you read through his background he was hired to do that work to help them transition to a sale to a successor uh Consulting operation so a lot of work on strategic planning and programs that he identified in his responses uh but prior to that was a Township manager and a couple communities uh up in the Chester County area and Chester uh um um Philadelphia Chester County area as Township managers in the upper um the upper yon Township and then also in Thornberry Township um comparable siiz communities to here in Treasure Island U obviously there's additional work beyond that in his resume he was involved in law enforcement prior to getting into City management and uh Township management operation um has a master's degree in Business Administration also a master's degree in public administration and a bachelor's degree in public administration so um I'll turn it back to you for any particular thoughts or comments or questions you might have as a group and we talk through uh Mr vargo's candidacy I just had one question it's not a biggie but uh his resume uh only goes through April of 2023 do you know what he's been doing for the past year or so uh as best I can tell he's in transition uh at this point um it it often I will tell you that depending on it can take upwards of a year to find a position for someone that's looking for the right opportunity in City management uh they they generally carrye is not someone I have seen in my other searches this the first time I've seen him in in an SDR search so that tells me he's being very selective on what he's looking for and the type and the size of the community so part of this is a waiting game that they're working their way through the next position okay yep have you seen his name in other searches no this is the first the first impression I have for Mr Vargo in this in this particular search absolutely and he's not in um some of my other searches I've got going either so literally this is the first Community I've seen him in so that is different I will tell you that we have um candidates uh without naming names that I'll call frequent flyers that regardless of the size or the state or the popul you know whatever the case is they're going to throw their application in the in the in the hopper so uh this is certainly not the case actually with none other some of your other candidates are in some of our other searches um but I think that's because they're in some high quality searches right now and they're looking at high quality communities like yours any other comments or anything you particularly liked about him or didn't like um not my only concern is he has pretty much landlocked history in Pennsylvania I believe um and that's kind of concerning to me that not familiar with the coast environment and the issues that go along with that okay I think uh the closest to he he did as I recall he did mention about some Riverfront development and things of that nature but that's certainly different than being on the on the coast I certainly appreciate that that was one of the things we wanted to get a handle about they've dealt with natural disasters and flooding and hurricanes and tornadoes and things of that nature yep so yeah you can tell he tried to to answer that question about Waterfront or Downtown Development to the best of his ability but I made a note that that answer or his experience there wasn't ex wasn't very strong um I had initially uh marked him down because of one of the things I was looking for was experience in particular with Florida because the sunshine laws and that that stuff but he did exceptionally well in the video interviews probably uh one of the top two with the video interviews I thought he he really impressed me with with that absolutely well just on that point um with this scandle or anything else I will tell you I remember um not surprisingly whenever you advertise for positions typically the host state will generate the most applications that's to be expected um but I know and and most commissions and councils that I work with look to have somebody that understands kind of the unique nature of the state in which we're we're doing the recruitment and um what I will I've described to a number of my clients that the skill set of a city manager is it it the best analogy is is is it's a like a car the city is like a car going down the road at 70 miles an hour and the manager typically gets away from the driver's seat is either on his own or is kicked out depending on the nature of the circumstances and the next manager kind of steps into that driver's seat whether it's an interm or an ongoing basis and so if they've been doing City Management in some fashion the skill set's a lot like a driver's license you're going to know how to generally navigate things but there is also the nuances of each state that are different and so I as someone who moved to Florida and everybody wondered about I came from Michigan everybody wondered about you know Florida is different we do things a whole lot differently here but I can tell you that if you've got a skill set typically between your staff your attorney and the league um you quickly can get up to speed to learn about kind of what the rules of the road are that are unique to your state and so just as a sidebar note on that but I find that analogy to be a relatively one one that most of my commission is going to get that if you get a driver's license you'll figure it out doesn't mean that you're not going to be better the longer you've worked in it but just recognizing most of these candidates have extensive City management background they'll come with a they'll come with a driver's license so to speak okay I really like the his tenure length of tenure at the upper yon Township he was there for 10 years shows he's kind of in it to for the Long Haul so I liked that and then I also really liked to the um Financial dashboard that they had on their website that's a a live um dashboard that he implemented with the goal of transparency it was um NE to I opened it and looked at it that was really really nice and I think that's something that a lot of our residents are kind of um craving and asking for right now so it just helps helps the public to understand the financials a little bit better that was pretty cool any um concerns I mean I think he was one of I I really I didn't have any concerns about his application um but anyone else all right all right okay your next candidate is Chuck Anderson uh Chuck is currently the deputy city manager in Great Falls Montana uh has been in that role since 2017 um brings a background in public works uh prior to that as a public works director with Steamboat Springs Colorado uh and then uh had a military background as he referenced in his material as well in terms of different positions um doing a lot of Operations Logistics project management um mobilization type functions uh and serving in in uh very senior ranking positions uh with the Air Force and also brings a master's degree in Business Administration a bachelor's in resource management and as a project management professional as well I know he spoke uh as part of his background some of the capital projects that he's been involved with over the years as well so I think that was probably part of given given all the projects you've got going here I think that was one of the interests that I perceived and his interest in this position and he was also looking I think this is the cand was also looking to relocate to Florida for some family reasons as well well MH I'll turn it back over to you mayor okay any thoughts I I'll have a couple here one is uh he he did mention in his interview and and of course in his resume as well that about his military background and he was a a chief Master Sergeant in the Air Force which is an E9 and my experience with E9 first of all there's not very many of them uh but they tend to be people who get things done uh they've have great leadership skills again I know you can't apply this Universal but you don't get to the rank of a E9 without having a lot of experience uh leading people so that was one of the things that caught my attention with him uh he also has good longevity as as you noted with the previous candidate in terms of his jobs that he's held uh the negative of course is the is the lack of Florida experience but he but he does uh he was stationed in Florida and has lived in Florida for a short period of time in his career anything else I'll did what Arden said um on his leadership skills but what also impressed me in the video interview was the fact that he came across very strongly as a family man that family values and Family Ties meant a lot to him and if we take a look at our city of Treasure Island as one big family somebody who's very interested in working with the people as they are a family um struck a note with me do you want to goad yeah I was very interested in his Public Works background uh I think that being on the coast here we have a lot of issues with infrastructure and public works and and when I say issues things that people need to understand um you know it's it's kind of like well if flooding all you do is just raise you know the the pump and pump it out you know it's you know you can't uh you can't flood you know the gulf you know it's can't be done but uh so but I I did uh the Public Works director I think that uh I i' like to see that and I did like the military back okay well I'm going to build on what you all said because I agree with what you've said and I also like to expound that he also has lean 66 for environmental and sustainability background and um his ftes that he managed are very admirable and also his E9 ranking is really strong it shows a good background on leadership I'm going to take a little bit of a dissenting um stance on this one I I was not impressed with his video interview and I I appreciate Doug for giving that kind of caveat that it is a challenging thing to do but I I felt as though it was very stiff and rigid um and that he was just kind of reading from a script um so I didn't find him to be very personable um and as soon as I watched those interviews it was kind of a a no for me and I think that I while I understand and I certainly respect the military background I I find that that kind those two things kind of go together that it it didn't surprise me to see how rigid and stiff his interview was based on his military background um which isn't um not to take anything away from that just not the really a a style that I think is wonderful for or perfect fit for our community I think something that someone who's a little bit more outside the box thinking and while you might be very efficient and productive and getting things done um I think we have a lot of stuff that we need to be Innovative with um so I I see what you guys are saying there but it it kind of hit me a little bit a little bit differently it is interesting how we have we can both look at the same videos and have have a different takeaway from that cuz uh I had him in the middle of the pack just based on his resume but once I saw the videos I moved him up uh to the top of the pack so it it is interesting how we have completely different uh view of that uh just one more thing I wanted to add uh regarding uh Mr Anderson was that his uh uh project manage management was one of the boxes that I had put up in my little spreadsheet that I uh developed here for myself to track these candidates and he did he did mention in his uh cover letter that he was completing a project management professional certification this month which I you know given some of the projects that we uh take on around here I think that would certainly come in handy yeah and one thing I'd like to point out with because I did think he was kind of a little stiff too but then I looked at the times that he's applied for positions and he's held this Deputy city manager position since 2017 so he has not maybe had the benefit of doing a one-on-one video visit where you're you're talking I know when I first started working on teams it was very hard to talk to people on a video camera so that may have a little play into it yeah yeah other than that I mean I didn't there wasn't anything that's really the only reason I didn't wasn't strongly pulled towards him as a candidate otherwise I mean I think his resume is very impressive and um don't see any issues with it at all yeah I I did like uh he talks about uh being successful negotiating with developers land owners uh a multi-year Redevelopment program um and that kind of piqued my interest a little bit you know I don't know exactly what all that meant you know I mean he doesn't go into the scope of the work but uh but certainly he's done it and uh and we're kind of in that that sweet spot right now about uh negotiating with Redevelopment and and the developers so there I I can tell you I think I mentioned I I spoke at Great Falls um couple years ago I was asked to speak to the Great Big Sky City management association met in great fall so i' I've seen their Community I've seen their downtown I saw the renovation of their facade of their of the um it was underway um for their uh their civic center their playhouse that he had mentioned as well that they were involved with they're downtown is a very large um it's it's strip orientation similar to your major major highway here obviously uh with the Falls being the the river being behind it so to speak uh so the Waterfront is there as well but um you know it seem to be a very vibrant downtown uh activity and lot of lot of lot of action on the street now I wasn't there in the middle of the winter so don't know what that looked like in the winter but in the summer it certainly had a lot of hustle and bustle going forward so I could as I was reading his material I could visualize the types of people and the projects He was probably working with there great anything else on cheuck okay all right good all right next candidate is Jim Slayton uh Jim um as as you've seen through the background has a lengthy career with the City of Lake Wales uh starting as a intern actually but then working as an IT director Network Administration and then working his way all the way up as deputy and assistant city manager then uh upon the retirement of Ken Fields as a manager he was selected as their city manager um and that was back in 2020 so he's been in the lead role for three years um impressive candidate in terms of his backgrounds does a master's and a bachelor's obviously is also a credentialed manager uh to refresh your memory on that U managers have the ability to be credentialed by uh taking a self assessment process and then identifying the areas in which they would like to refine and enhance their skills uh as part of that there's a peer review effort they're required to undertake at least a minimum of 40 hours a year and submit their background and the material to be re accredited year toe so it's a commitment to their professional development effort and then um one of a one of a couple of the candidates that have been involved in some of the major uh senior leadership executive programs um the University of Virginia being one uh Harvard University being another one that a couple year candidates have been involved with as well so a commitment to professional development very stable um hasn't hav't moved around I know in talking with Jim uh when he applied for this position he he actually is looking for Waterfront uh P County as you know is an inland County um he does enjoy boating and fishing and outdoor life and he uh has expressed an interest in his next position being along the waterfront on one of the coasts as well do we have any other candidates who are IC CM uh we do but they'll be I I I I apologize mayor I got too many searches in my head I can't tell you off top of my head but I I flagged them on the um material um when they are there I do I know I know you got at least one of there but there may be two yeah and maybe three is that the credential that Amy achieved while she was shortly after she became city manager uh yes because you can be a member of icma but then you next level is I got I was credentialed in 2005 okay and then held it until just a couple years ago but yeah it is and it it's a good program and it is a defining attribute of dedicated managers and I have written down that three of them have the IC CM I was thinking it was three but I didn't want to I want to nail that without seeing the slides um and to Gary's point it is a voluntary uh effort it's not something it was a big debate when icma through about whether they were going to require it or not and um ultimately they said it was going to be voluntary effort and um we we we champion and recognize those folks that do it it's a commitment to their development did you say that's 40 credit hours or minim after you become credential it's a minimum of 40 hours of continuing education and then there's a report that you have to file and uh to the the peer review process that goes through it uh to ensure to make sure that you're you're complying with the continuing improvement process of a credential manager so minimum of 40 hours is what the requirement yeah he did uh he addressed family and uh you know big way he addressed family and wanting to stay in Florida uh he did want to get over to the open water versus you know the small lakes over in the Lakeland area um you know I I I he is like I said icma CM um that's impressive um his his length of time service with the City of Lake Wales is is also impressive um and I'm sure that over those years he's pretty much learned a little bit about everything that happens in that City so um I liked him uh he he's very solid I mean he's uh as as you mentioned he grew up uh there uh and Lake Wells grew up in the organization there uh but but solid as can be so I I wouldn't question that he didn't interview the video interview he he was uh less Dynamic and uh less energetic than than uh than some of the other uh uh people that we interviewed uh but I put myself in his place and I probably wouldn't have interviewed very very well on in those circumstances so I understand that but he does look you know he does he is very solid he's the only one of the candidates that we are considering that only has one uh market experience the others have have had the the benefit of multiple uh market experience this one's only in Lake Wales it is Florida so he clearly uh check that box uh said he's he's a solid I I reviewing his resume I had him ranked number one when I saw the video he he moved down but he's still he's still very solid in watching the video um and the um resume my concern was about interface with the community and I didn't gather that there was a lot of expression on his part touting his experience and his satisfaction and his success uh with interface within the community not that he hasn't done it um I didn't perceive it to come across in either the video or his resume okay that's the only thing I had against him I'll have to agree with commissioner minning on that and also so there seems to be a little bit of um issues with his previous employment at Lake Wales so I have some questions about that in reservations and and he is still he is still the city manager there in like is he still the city manager he is still there absolutely y yeah I thought he was resigned from that position no no um and he addressed a little bit about the the police chief issue uh that I think you raised at the last meeting as well commissioner but yes I just want to confirm he is still still city manager there he's also a semifinalist for another position too right that's correct yes yeah do you know the where that search process is they are um ironically um it's it's New Smyrna Beach U because I'm happen to be doing that search as well and they are treat they're having this meeting tomorrow night so uh he is one of their they have 11 semi-finalists as well so got a couple a couple of my candidates in this search that uh are also looking at a different different side of state but a very high quality Community as well so okay yeah um again interesting I had kind of the reverse impression from the video interview his video interview really moved him up on my list because I felt like it was very natural it was not stiff it wasn't rigid it was someone that I felt like I could this and that's something that I am asking myself when I'm watching these is is this somebody that I feel like I can work with on a regular basis is someone that I can enjoy sitting down with once a week and talking about what's going on in the city have not have a a barrier there and someone that I can really um have free flowing communication and conversation with so that really checked a big box for him for me I appreciate that he has been in the same um Community I think that's a strength he shows that he's committed to things that he takes on actually had the opportunity to go over to the City of Lake recently for a music festival that they had in their little downtown um Lakefront Park it was extremely well organized and the town really seems to be um coming together they have a nice little downtown area that has um you can tell has a lot of upand cominging B small businesses um and that the city is supporting that so I liked that and I I as a young person myself I I did like that he stood out amongst the pack as one of the the younger candidates that has some kind of innovative ideas and um might think a little bit differently and not to Discount many years of service but I think that it is a a balance between he has that many years of service but he's also relatively um not early in his career but he still has a lot of Runway um left in his career so I that's something that I'm I'm looking for too I don't necessarily want someone who's going to come here to um retire I good um so that's what stood out for me with with Jim I really liked him as a candidate I agree with you on the the music festival that you had I had some friends also that went to that and thought it was very well run and also he's done a nice job with the downtown district of re purposing some of the places I know that they and I know he spoke about his development the development plan and the actions and his um his questionnaire response um Lake whales is is been putting a lot of focus in their downtown area they've got a major they've got a major issue with a hotel that they've been trying to do a development on and and that's been problematic it's a Historic Hotel and they're trying to to get that issue resolved because it's kind of in the middle of everything and it's the the one big nut that they've got to resolve yet but um it um I I I I know Jim from a little bit of a distance only because he's in po County and I I've followed Lake Wales and certainly followed my colleagues in in po County and I've seen I've watched him grow up in that role and uh continue to play leadership role and and I got to know him a long time ago when he was still IT director and and kind of watched his progression but he is he is definitely and I mentioned about frequent flyers Jim is not a frequent flyer these are the first searches I've had him in even though I've I've been in P County for 20 years uh this is the first time he's been looking for opportunities and is really just looking for quality qu communities like yours so okay any other comments or thoughts all right okay all right next candidate um Jeff mahik uh was previously the city uh mid city manager in the city of Boseman Montana uh served in that capacity for about four years uh prior to that was a deputy cm and chief um operating officer with Fort Collins Colorado a much larger organization and then prior to that was in a um an organization in the City of Surprise Arizona as an ACM I know he spoke in his background about all the kind of backgrounds and experience he had uh this is another one of your credential managers you had as you say I think I think um uh Paul is your third credential manager we'll get to a little a little later as well um so another commitment to professional development and um I know I think I spoke before in terms of the background I know when he was in Fort Collins uh was involved uh in Lakeland doing U priority based budgeting there were a few communities that were kind of on The Cutting Edge for Collins and Lakeland were those communities and I got to meet with his manager at the time and we both spoke about kind of the challenges and sizes and how we went through it so I I know what they've done there in terms of Performance Management and excellence in programs and I know he spoke to that in his background as well so I'll turn it back over to you for comments what was his reason for leaving he you can see March yeah this was the this was the candidate that um was involved in they had finished up a a zoom interview with uh with their department head meeting and um apparently there was a conversation then that took place after most of the staff had left he was having a conversation with one of his staff members and um he had made some comments that were disparaging about some of the things that were taking place in the community and some comments about some of the elected officials and that created quite a bit of controversy as you can imagine um what happened was he was he and the colleague would not aware that it was still being recorded and eventually someone within the organization was able to to get a copy of it and released it and it became a point of cont a controversy to say the least in the community he has uh he's addressed that a little bit in his in his material about his background um he also I've spoken to him about it he he says it's it's it's obviously about 12 minutes or 15 minutes of of of things that he's learned a lot from uh wouldn't wish that upon anyone but obviously uh was ins snarled by that and um decided to depart from the organization and and move on so he is now actively looking for the next position I did speak with Jeff just on this point because I know um one of the things that I know sometimes Commissioners are concerned about about scale and scope of size of organizations um and so you know how does that work with a community of this size when you've been in something much larger as well and I I wanted to to really get a chance to to get his sense of that uh Jeff indicated that the challenges and the issues that you you've identified here in sustainability and the the raised Treasure Island and the number of capital projects and the public infrastructure improvements that you're involved with and your downtown Redevelopment issues and things of that nature is what really has interested him in this position um he has indicated to me that he's not looking to to question that one of you had said about we're not looking to hire somebody and then do this search three or four more years down the road he he use his next position he'd like to be his last position and he still has gas in the tank to continue that and he's uh expressed regret and remorse for the circumstances that led to his resignation uh and is now trying to hopefully saying I hope that that doesn't Define my career for all the other work that I've done in other Communities going forward so but that's every Community has a level of Tolerance and issues for that and and it's our job to at least present the candidates and you have to make a determination whether it it it fits for you or not so did anyone have a chance to watch the video oh yeah okay anyone want to say anything I'll I'll I'll talk about this one a little bit uh Jeff uh scored well on the resume he's got a very strong background obviously did and he did uh the interviews I think he did well as well uh I had him highly ranked until I saw the video and I know it was recent and I know you know it was it was uh he did talk about uh wanting and uh having a desire to work in much larger markets than where he's currently he didn't talk during that 17 and a half minutes about going to smaller markets he talked about going to larger markets so uh so you know there was a lot of uncomfortableness with that video and but I did lock in on the you know on that he was fairly ambitious uh and was looking for bigger and better things than than Boseman Montana so yeah I'll par that comment about moving on to a bigger venue um we're not the big bigger venue and then uh it's nice to see people with some experience and some desire to get to a level where we are um and I did not get that from Jeff understand in watching the video and and be honest the incident that he had with the open mic uh we all make faux paw every now and then that's nothing to hang his hat on um but when I look at all the other candidates um that certainly comes into play in my mind understand I concur with commissioner minning I was very disappointed in the video so that's it have anything I started out by asking about it so um I Echo a lot with what commissioner Dicky said I I was impressed with his resume obviously impress boseman's a great Community a big much bigger Community than ours and um but when I watched the the video of the the conversation it just I there was no coming back from that for me I I need number one priority with a city manager for me as the mayor is I need have absolute inherent trust in that person and seeing how he talked about his elected officials um just completely burst that any potential of having any sort of trust with him so I could not um Envision that and to to Echo the concerns there um I I think that him applying for this position is an indication of the struggles that he's going to have with a looking for a new um position because um he was looking for bigger and better opportunities not going down to a smaller population so I'd imagine that um his application here is not out of a pure desire to go to a community like ours but out of a necessity so um I didn't feel very comfortable um with him at all which is unfortunate because I think he does have a good personality he seems very gregarious um but um hearing those things I just I just can't um couldn't move forward with him understandable as I said the you learn more about the folks and you get a perception of what fits and every Community has their own Dynamics and and understanding and tolerances and things like that so that's that's what the process is all about so okay anything else there no okay all right all right next candidate um is an engineer um uh Ken Griffin um currently working as a director of Public Works or public services and utility operations in Roxboro North Carolina comparable siiz Community been in that role since 2023 um has done some other work in uh in the utility Arena extensively in a number of positions uh director of engineering and facilities and public works and storm water utilities with the city of Sebastian here in Florida um Ken actually still has a house in the Tampa Marketplace so he's relative ly close uh I think I mentioned the last time he had applied for another position um for a county position that I was doing and but it was on the other side of the state and he expressed an interest but at the end of the day wanted to stay on this side of the coast uh where ultim I think he wants to settle um but and as I said even though he's in North Carolina he maintains a residence here as well um had done work obviously in Sebastian Florida um he had indicated that that was a shorter term effort the drive at that point um was from Tampa down to Sebastian and it was just too too long of a commute for him at the end um then he has done some work in the private sector as a principal manager and engineer with a group called Reynolds engineering here in Tampa um has done that kind of off and on in between positions and still has a relationship so um many managers if they have capacity and with their board's approval have the ability to do some side work and Consulting work and um I don't get the sense he's doing that actively now in my conversations with him but he's kind of kept that that that door open um and was a County Administrator and utilities director in King William County Virginia uh for a year and then was also the director of Public Utilities and Smithfield uh Public Utilities in Smithfield North Carolina for a year as well then got a little more in his background there the general manager the BJ bjwsa it's a regional Water and Wastewater and reclaimed water uh Authority up in South Carolina and he made some references to that I can unpack that for you if there's a desire from 2011 to 2013 and then a role that brought him here to the uh the Tampa Bay Area was his role in serving in a variety of capacities as an assistant County Administrator for infrastructure and development also handled director of operations and management in the Utility side of functions there and served in a variety of those capacities from 2006 to 2011 um as you can see he's got a PhD in Human Resources development a master's degree um um in a couple different fields um also has a master's in environmental engineering and a bachelor's degree in biological sciences he is another icma credential manager and he is also a registered engineer professional engineer here in the State of Florida it's a very extensive background all right any commissioner to you want to start on this one sure um happily um i' like his background in um his studies at Cornell especially in oceanography I like the fact that he's an engineer with all the planning that we have coming through um I also am concerned that he has a house and residency in Tampa and part of our requirements for this position is residency in Treasure Island so that's a big concern I have because they were looking for somebody that's going to be part of our community um let's see what else did I have on here um I did like that he's credential manager that's very important um his educational background is Stellar that's what I have right now okay he's got a lot of Engineering in his background and uh and I I it would almost appear that that's kind of his real interest um and but uh I he has a lot of education and you know so he couldn't be a bad guy but um that's it yeah his PhD is in management and Human Resources so that kind of is a little different than engineering yeah uh very well qualified individual uh educationwise experience-wise but it's all in engineering um I don't see much at all in terms of U City management County management experience uh from this individual so my takeaway was uh overqualified uh in one sense and underqualified in the other I pretty much agree with what the other Commissioners have said uh up to this point uh he certainly he doesn't have any city manager experience uh uh and he does move around a lot if you look at his jobs most of his jobs were two three years done so he was the that that was a red flag for me all right um I don't really have anything else to add other than I agree with everything that's that's been said um can you shed a little light on where the engineering jobs contracted jobs that he filled in at and did a a job on or were they just un fortunately commissioner I don't I don't have that level of detail I just I many times um managers when they're managers and people in this profession will work with an established group and when they're in transition just um pick up jobs U sometimes they'll do Consulting they'll do you know strategic planning whatever the case would be a lot of managers that go through transitions um obviously they may have a severance but they've still got to keep food on the table and so they many times I've seen where a an individual will kind of keep a relation ship with a firm and just work in and out as the the work goes forward so I don't have any particular jobs but I can tell you that I see that in the profession quite a bit so apologize I can't give you the specifics beyond that though yeah which is true because I know life of a city manager a city is at a whim of the the elected board so sometimes they shift rather quickly too used to say they could fire you with how you part your hair but I can't use that experience anymore so thank you okay any anything else uh on Mr Griffin discuss I don't think so okay all right okay our next candidate Lawrence MCN um Lawrence is uh one of another candidate that has a military background um and the role that he's in now he mentioned in his material why he's doing that it was an area to kind of serve in a in a role in the military he's not been able to do but apply some of his management skills he's had and City management back into his field in U in the armed services so currently serving as a director of mission capabilities with a group um it's based out of Houston Texas but he's obviously out of the country at this point he mentioned that in his material as well um more relevant to those functions they always involved in logistics and planning and project support things of that nature skill sets that certainly managers would bring to the table as well served as a County Manager in Hardy County here in Florida um from 2019 to 2023 and then served also as a city manager in West Liberty Iowa um smaller Community than yours for about six years as well as you can see his backgrounds in U military and navy and Army and um Military Intelligence type officers work as well as a masters in public administration and bachelor degree also in public administration and management all right who wants to start well let M commissioner doctor start this time we'll start in the middle um you know this one was was a bit difficult uh you I had the opportunity to do some business in Hardy County um and you know um I I don't know it's not the hustle and bustle that that we have over here uh so um I don't know it it it was difficult taking a look at at uh what he has in his background and where he wants to go but I I just didn't see it so I'm going to go to the coastal side of life and note that he doesn't really seem to have a lot of coastal experience I I'll just add that he uh has limited city manager experience he he did do that small town West Liberty Iowa uh for uh six years so he he does have that experience uh and the county manager experience but but not much else uh as far as running a city uh in that regard so so he had a very impressive resume he's a won the bronze star uh twice uh so he's you know very qualified in many ways but but he didn't seem he he was kind of in the middle of the pack for me uh for both on the looking over the resume and the and the videos uh I could compare what everybody else said uh I watched the videos read the resume uh I didn't come away overly impressed or under impressed um with the gentleman there was nothing there that just grabbed me and said you know I want to know more about him so okay I agree with uh commissioner Dicky he was right in the middle of the pack yeah same for me I think had his experience is decent I that's my concern about Hardy county is that it's it's definitely very different than ours but you know it's a when you take into consideration the the organization he it is more comparable with um 12 department heads and even more employees than we have here so I don't have a doubt that he is not capable of leading the organization just may not be exposed to the same kind kind of um things that we are exposed to here on the coast um I did I was a fan of just his demeanor and his um personality on the video interviews so I think those played well but again like everyone else has said didn't really jump off the page to me but I also I think he was um worth pursuing so he like again right in the middle of the pack for me as well but no no concerns or anything anyone else anything to add all right yeah next candidate is Patrick Kaminsky um most recently as city manager with the city of Mount Dora Florida from 2021 to 2024 uh prior to that served on a um Eastern Shore Community Cambridge Maryland um from 2018 to 2021 and then prior to that served as a city manager in the city of thomist Georgia from 2002 to 2016 pretty long tenure there um has a master's degree in public administration a bachelor's in sociology and business administration and is also a certified public manager CPM all right any I was just going to I think I know the answer to this question but he did talk about his Bachelor science degree with concentration accting do you know if he's a CPA or I guess if he was if if he I do not believe he's a CPA I don't think there was a uh we always ask if there's other credentials or anything of that nature so we would note that if that was the case y uh again he he he had he interviewed uh well I thought on the on the videos and his credentials and experience uh checked uh checked all the boxes the only one that didn't he didn't check for me was the on a lot of experience with economic development but uh but otherwise I you know I thought he was a pretty solid candidate uh do I understand that he applied to uh the city of TI before on prev I believe he mentioned that um it was I think it was in his video interview I believe there was one of your candidates that mentioned that back when probably when you left or when you when you came on board yeah when you onard when you came on board okay further insight into um other than other than the fact I spoke mostly with Patrick about what went on in in Mount Dora I didn't when I spoke to him it was before I'd seen his material because I wanted to know more about the mount door experience and so um but I so I didn't speak to him about his interest of when he applied before but obviously it was on his radar um earlier yeah it was I don't remember him very much but um I remember I was part of that search and and I think he wasn't a finalist was he a finalist he was not okay no thank you okay sorry would you like to expound more on the Mount Dora sure um thank you so Mount Dora has had those of you that kind of follow the municipal League Mount Dora's had a number of managers um that have kind of come and gone through that Community it's a tough little Community for managers and um my wife always jokes she thinks that any of us in this business that there's a um something went wrong in the DNA sequencing that we got into this arena for City managers because we always believe we can save a community and save save whatever the issue or the challenge may be but that being the case uh I'm aware of a number of managers that have gone through Mount D um the way Patrick had described it to me um went through first year um there was you know got positive reviews in the process uh he described in his material a lot of discussions about some Bond issues with fire stations and improvements and dynamics that were in play he was very much concerned about the cost of what that was going to do for their community it's it's never the cost of just the original building it's the what catches up to you is the long-term operation and maintenance cost of all those facilities so started looking at a variety of different options and ways and kind of was moving forward uh election did occur um a different mayor and Council U was seated and when he first started in the effort uh he described in the background that um he and the mayor kind of saw different directions as it related to some of these things especially as it dealt with the issues of the fire stations and some hiring and firing author issues that ultimately led to a um um a tension that that resulted in an investigation of him um he complain he has indicated to me uh that the he does not believe that the investigation that was ultimately done was done fair and equitably if you watch some of the videos that have occurred um during that effort some of the Commissioners didn't even get interviewed during the process so this was supposed to be a relationship about his his work style and with the commissioner and internal issue so he has takes exception with some of the efforts what originally triggered it was a claim by an employee of a whistleblower complaint and that was very easily dismissed during the report so he was not found in that area at the end of the day um there was a I've seen a lot of material on on Patrick and there was a lot of people in the community that that came to his support and asked them to try to work through this issue and allow him to continue as the role um he had the ability to hold what's called a public he a um um uh name calling or name hearing hearing process where name clearing hearing um but at the end there was a debate of whether um if they were to do that whether he would be eligible to get Seance or not so he ultimately decided to Simply part ways and separate and and not really addressed it publicly in that regard um but certainly is was very candid with me about the Dynamics and the political dynamics that led to the separation there but indicated that should he go further and we needed references he would be able to certainly Supply references from other members of the counc when members of the community that would speak very highly of the work that he had done and and what he was trying to do financially for their organization so anyone else I didn't really I didn't do much research on the mount Doris situation um didn't jump off the page to me but is there anything concerning that if anyone had has looked into that more than I have I I haven't looked at it okay um were there specifics that you kind of read about that were it it just I didn't like the the vibe of it going back and forth and part of the community was this and part of the community was that and it was really divisive and I found it very divisive climate but you're saying that's not uncharacteristic of Mount dor I I know of three and maybe four managers that have gone through Mount Dora and similar themes have occurred um in terms of involvement from the um the commission or the elected body and the day-to-day operations of the functions and a lot of it's a it's a community that just has a challenging reputation for managers and so it's it's not you know obviously if you were to go deeper we would unpack it further I'm I'm comfortable with what I've heard and what I've seen that I'm I'm hearing a reasonable explanation of the circumstances obviously if you go deeper we would go deeper as well into the effort but um based on what I've heard and based on my experience and talking to other managers that have worked there are very familiar with that area it's um it the way it described it to me sounded very similar to what I had seen and and heard in other years different Dynamics but similar themes if you will yeah it's a it's a very nice Community to visit I mean I've been there several times for some art shows and different events and it's a very pretty community on the lake and you yeah their downtown is Pleasant it attracts a lot of Tourism and activity it's a very walkable downtown area it's got Waterfront not not not the gulf as you mentioned here you got a bigger bathtub here than they do inland but um you know the lakes are certainly part of that that that look and flavor and the DNA of the community and and it does bring a lot of tourist activity with fairs and events and things of that nature so yeah that would that would have some similarities to you here yeah they do some very nice events there and the Chain of Lakes is very nice MH in your conversations with him I think my my concern is I I agree Mount is a very nice place to go but I think it's different and I think it's just a little bit different pace than Treasure Island is and even just the St Petersburg metropolitan area so I just as you've talked to him or and reviewed his application or any of the other Commissioners is there anything on in his application that I'm missing that might see show like some Innovation or something unique that they he's done in a community um that was really my knowing what Mount Dora is like just that was my concern that there might not be enough Innovation and it's just a kind of a I I think a sleepy town but and I get I understand what you're saying in the sense you're the an Oceanfront area looks different than a than a Lakefront area and the events so I I fully appreciate that I was getting more of the sense that there's just a lot of Tourism a lot of activity and traffic and managing events and things like that that would be similar here if you look at at uh Patrick's background and and some of the material he provided um I think what you'll find is that he was very much involved in helping to bring and and and address their financial status and circumstances and trying to deal with the projects and and making sure they were sustainable and when I look at in the flavor of the type of work there um just a lot of work on and infrastructure improvements and costing and the fire station and the bonding issues that I mentioned earlier that was largely preoccupying his time and effort which is you know at the end of the day important issues of City management you got to make sure those things work for the long time not just internally so I get the sense mayor that that's where most of his focus and attention was from talking with him but also kind of the flavor of his responses uh that that's where his meat and potato of his time and energies were spent okay all right anything else to add all right right okay next candidate is Paul break Paul most recently served up in the city of Royal woke Michigan um larger Community but as you saw in his background a very large destination Community with a larger major events any of you are Auto enthusiasts the crews on Woodward and you all that that all happens in in that area as well so um very very comfortable and understanding large events and and destination locations um in a similar vein uh with city manager in Morgantown West Virginia home of the University of West Virginia um served there from 2017 to 2020 he talked in his material about the impacts of close to a million people coming in for football games and sporting events and activities so a lot of that actions and nightlife and and tourism and and managing the the accommodations for all those functions as well um served for a short period of time uh for a year is a um uh an operation called director of State operations uh for safe built Incorporated um there in Athens Michigan uh did a lot of Consulting with local government functions and operations so he had a chance to be involved with that uh prior of that was the city manager with the city of Grand Blank Michigan uh comparable size to you here uh served in that role from 2011 to 2015 Gran blank's had a history of very strong managers I served 20 years up in Michigan before coming down to Florida so Gran blank and his predecessor Randy burn served in that capacity for close to 20 25 or 30 years very stable management operations they also had at that time I don't think they're still doing it they did the Buick open there uh was in Grand Blank and so they help brought in national attention and activities with big events during that window as well uh and then served as an assistant Township manager uh in Meridian Township Michigan that's in the Lancing area Meridian Township was a very fast growing Community I knew the manager that Paul worked with very closely um and um so I I appreciate the tutelage that he had under that approach U has a master's degree in public administration bachelor's degree in public administration uh he is also a credential manager um he also is a credential certified economic community developer that's a certification in the economic development field the highest level you can get there um and um he actually I mentioned earlier about professional development effort he went to both the executive Institute in the University of Virginia similar to Mr Slayton uh and also went to the senior Executives in state and local government at Harvard University those are your two top senior executive intensive programs involved so all right who wants to start I I'll start out with with uh with Paul my my biggest concern uh with uh Mr Drake was his longevity and jobs uh he did have the pretty long stint there as you had mentioned in Meridian uh Michigan but uh since then he's pretty much been in each position for three three and a half years before he's moved on to to another uh position so that was uh the biggest my biggest concern there uh and his interview he I I thought he was eloquent and and and and and and able to talk but he was a bit long- winded uh I thought and didn't uh answer necessarily the question uh the questions that were being asked uh but he did have a lot to say sorry well said um I thought he came across reasonably well um I did not or I did care that he didn't have Florida experience did not appear to have any Waterfront experience uh I did live in Myan Township where he uh that's right I remember he's from but that was before his tenure um so I know the area and I lived in Michigan for 18 years so a lot of these places are familiar um to me it was middle of the pack I didn't uh put him down as a final candidate um maybe I shouldn't have said that um but anyhow that's that's where I stand on that yeah I do think uh kind of the middle of the pack I mean nothing jumped out at me that uh you know I concur but I really wish they would have given us more about what they are about and he really didn't do that so you know how are you going to fit in this community MH and that's what you know it's really important that they fit so yeah I'm with youall thank you that that fourth question is where we're commissioner to that's that's what we're trying to get out of the candidates about tell us about something that's not on your resume um and you you see every candidate answers that a little bit differently but that's kind of what we're trying to get at to your your point you know tell us something that really kind of gives us a little more understanding of why and and you know who you are so to speak that doesn't come across in the paper so yeah I couple couple of them who are like took a very literally okay something that probably should have been on my resume but wasn't on my resume like I was a Bag Boy at some stores no like tell me about yourself remember I come from Lakeland we're sensitive about bad boys at lot people making lot of millions of dollars um for me I thought he interviewed well I think he came off very professional very personable um and I think his resumes um good I think the the timeline of some of his experience is a little concerning but for me it was really the um I think this is something we haven't talked about yet but there is a question in the questionnaire about salary and um I think it's indicative of his he's kind of moved up in towns of bigger populations that might be able to spend more on a city manager but his salary he requested was about 230k plus or minus which is quite different than where we have been at with our city manager um so that was something that I just wanted to call out and um something that should probably be taken into consideration because I wouldn't want to get too far down the line with someone who wants way more than we're willing to pay um and then have that be the the disqualifying factors when it comes down to the um money aspect if we can weed that out ahead of time and consider someone who's a little bit more in the range of what we're looking for um just something for each person to think about how much we are comfortable spending just I'm glad you raised that mayor uh one of the things that we try to do obviously we ask the candidates we get an idea of what their salary expectations and you can make an evaluation of where they fit in the grand scheme of your skill sets and make a determination whether you've got a pool that you're comfortable with you're willing to maybe Flex that where for candidats that sometimes come in at the higher end or Beyond where you thought they might come in at um many times what they'll do or you ask me to do is they may if they're still of consideration to say listen this is probably the maximum we're prepared to go if you're prepared to accept something of that area you know that's sometimes that I will have a conversation with a candidate after a meeting like this to say maybe if I'm not saying it was Paul but if any your candidates were at that range sometimes you'll say all right can I follow up with that cand have a heart to heart about where I think the position is going to likely land Visa the pool you're looking at and if they're they can make a decision yes I'm in and I understand that or no it's just not going to work and that way you got kind of somebody in the bank that you might be able to slide in if you get to that point so yeah even even having a conversation like that though I think the the initial even if they were willing to accept much less than what we were what they what they stated in their application I think that would be even more of a concern to me that they might be a Flight Risk if they were willing to if he wants 230 and is willing to accept 180 I don't know how long he's going to be willing to to take that it might be a an interterm step so just not specifically talking about about Paul but just that philosophy in General on the on the salary I would be concerned about um going with someone even if they were willing to take it if the Gap was that that wide and we haven't Ted talked about that as a commission yet what we are willing to go up to but I think just using our current um salary as a benchmark it's it's quite quite a ways off from where we are now yep yep and do the applicants understand that when they did they get a range as they typically as they get to this point many of them will talk to me about what this the previous manager was making most all these folks are in City management they can very quickly find out what your managers were making through any number of public sources budget documents meetings things of that nature um maners will also get a flavor they kind of know what the market is but they also realize that every Community is different and sometimes I mean I've worked for the town of vale and veale housing costs were phenomenal so they paid their manager very well and they provided a house for the manager so every Community is a little different and you got to kind of work your way through it um so to to some extent they do understand kind of the market so to speak some have specifically spoken to me about it but others have done their due diligence um and if they're interested in the community they'll they'll throw their hat in the ring and um you know I I there's two schools of thought in this my sense is you're best to at least see what the market looks like for the type of candidates and the experience they bring to the table and then you're in the driver's seat of saying I'm willing to flex because I think that that given candidate brings something more to the table but if you if you say it's a hard and fast number somebody that's close that number may not apply and you may have missed a great opportunity if you're willing to maybe bump 5 or 10,000 or something to to make it work so I'm of the latter philosophy I think it's best for you to make that decision rather than the candidate just self- selecting themselves out of an opportunity it's better for you to see them and say it makes sense or it doesn't so yeah and St P Beach just hired a new city manager and they they're paying 240 for their C city manager just heard that yeah um something and that wasn't I asked when we sent that what the salary was of their former and it wasn't that far off of that so 210 was what they were paying their former city manager so there there's differences between us and St P Beach slightly larger Community um and different um issues down there but um I think that it might be like you said I think if there's if there's other candidates in the pool that meet what we're looking for and they're it's we just when it comes to a candidate like this we need to look at the resm and see is there something in there that warrants that big of a of a salary difference if there's something that we really think is amazing then let's talk through that but excellent all right okay all right okay your next candidate Scott Moy um Scott is currently the county manager of inware County um Georgia and has been in that role since 2016 um he worked uh for a private sector group for a few years as well on the procedure to pay operations um part of that was a city administrator in Black Shear Georgia um from 2004 to 2013 pretty lengthy tenure there as well done some Adjunct professor work in in public administration and then uh also has experience in Fernadina Beach on the other side of the state um comparable little comparable size area um and served as Deputy city manager and also the interim city manager uh during those windows of time and it's a master's degree in public administration and a bachelor's also in Business Administration I start down on this side of the table okay any thoughts feedback no I like Mr Moy I think he's I think he interviewed very well um really his experience is good his teaching experience is interesting because that teaches that lets you know that he can relate to a variety of different people um he has Florida experience on the East Coast um I also believe he's one of the candidates for the East Coast position that you have open I really kind of liked himh okay um I think he had a solid background there are some areas in his career where he you know kind of moved on very quickly but uh the he had been you know like here at the city of uh Black Shear he was there for uh nine years so I I found him to be a a viable candidate we tell you nationally the average tenure is about five to seven years for a city manager some of us say in dog years right a little bit longer but uh yeah it's uh it so anytime you see a lengthy tenure that I think speaks well to the uh the ability to adapt because during a period like that you've had different councils that have come and gone and members that have shifted and you got to deal with different personalities and and changing expectations and changing goals and and um strategic plans things like that so the one thing that stood out for me in his uh video was his uh frequent expression that he's a workaholic yeah um he tempered it a few times though after he said it yeah he did um and that didn't go over very well with me to be honest um I would like to see somebody a little more rounded uh a little more interested in the community maybe a little more interested in what they like to do as opposed to spending a Saturday in an office so I had him uh fairly highly ranked uh with looking at his resume and his background I didn't think he did as well on his uh interviews as a matter of fact he moved down quite a bit uh uh after that uh and also I felt he didn't put much effort into his cover letter was probably the most brief of all the cover letters uh and believe me I would rather read a shorter one than a longer one but uh but it it did it did seem that he didn't put that much uh effort into it so so anyway because of those reasons he moved down on on on my scale um I thought he interviewed fairly well um I like that he has the experience in for an Indiana beach it is quite some time ago at this point um over 20 years or almost 20 years um so I didn't really realize that when we were looking at them initially that didn't catch my eye um but still the I mean his other experiences are similar size um with the county that he's at right now has well over the amount of employees that we have so um I think he's a solid candidate and um he's dealt with an addition to a city marina so that could be helpful if we looking at new docks over at The Old City Hall property um that was really what mostly caught my eye but nothing bad to say anything else all right okay getting there folks two more to go next candidate is Taylor Brown um Taylor is currently serving as the executive director with the Taylor County Development Authority um and he um previous to that served with the city of Perry Florida uh from 2018 to 2023 uh has been a manager in the city of Mary Esters Florida from 2016 to 2017 and then also in the city of Trenton Florida in 2010 to 2016 um has a planning uh director of Planning and Development Community Development type background uh experience as well uh he did that in goest County Florida uh from 2007 to 2010 and as you can see has a background Masters in community planning and a back bers in urban planning so candidate's been kind of in the Panhandle part of the state as opposed to some of the other parts of the state you've looked at today okay any thoughts I'll start we work our way back that way no Taylor had uh has a very solid background uh he he ranked very highly I he didn't interview quite as well he didn't seem quite as dynamic or energetic and enthusiastic uh but I still overall rated him high because of his of his uh solid uh experience at the city manager level in the State of Florida do you have any more information on the city of Mary East Esther East Easter why was such a short term there no when I talked to him and then he kind of outlined it again um you know he he described it in his questionnaire get the right section here that was my notes when I chatted with them as well um as I recall Mary eser was um some of the communities in his background he described that they were financially challenged and not really willing to deal with infrastructure issues and and sustainability of their operations and so that largely was the the impression I got in terms of why the end of the day he was not going to be able to continue that you tend to beat your head against a wall for trying to advance things and if the Community is not prepared to go there it's not a good fit and you move on from there have you R across him in any other searches um I I I've had him in some searches of recent um because obviously he's in the marketplace right now looking for the next opportunity um I've met Taylor one of the things that I do at the fccma annual conference is to do resume reviews and I met Taylor years ago when he was earlier in his profession uh trying to get into the city management Arena from the planning side of the equation so I've known him over the years years in that effort he's not been a lot of my searches this is most recently the he's been in a couple of my recent searches um but um he strikes me as someone that's looking for the right opportunity he does I think he's a Florida guy he's not looking elsewhere uh he I think he likes coastal areas uh from the impression I've got and um he's a pretty thoughtful deliberative person I think his his interview style I think he will come across a little more personable than from because I know him I've I've sat across the table from him not in a formal interview but at least understanding him through fccma conferences um and uh I think he's thoughtful and reflective and I think he's got a good background um and I don't you know from what we've seen initially there's nothing there of concern in terms of his departures from the other communities other than what he's told us is he involved in other searches at present uh right now he's only in this search he's been he's been a candidate in a couple other searches but he's only a semi-finalist in this search as I recall recollection yeah I woulde agree I thought he was a good candidate and I'll reflect that as we get further on he does also bring he highlighted the experience and natural disasters and things of that nature which I know is high of importance to you here so one in terms of assisting other communities but then also being recipient of services from some of those sister yeah sure found we approach the hurricane season I know we're right around the corner here I found him to be uh very solid in his in his work and uh you know I that talk we've talked about the looking into the camera and speaking um I think that that maybe was a little bit outside of his comfort zone but he appears to be a likable guy and uh so I I think he uh would be a good candidate I would have to agree on that and I liked his tell me something out of the ordinary and I really like the fact that he was really seemed to be very honest and very interested in that he does a lot of environmental work and also um talks about his grandfather and his cooking and just a lot of different things that were out of the box that he mentioned I thought was very good and also you know unfortunately he's been a recipient of a lot of hurricanes and storm damage that we've been very spared and luckily not hit by but I think he has a lot to bring to the table with that um I did pull up in his answer that question he said he's so far has only applied for two recruitments including TI and he's been en named as a semi-finalist in both of them so I don't know what the other city is but um he he no he's not a semi um oh yeah I take it back there was a position um I could say it because it's public I believe he was in my I'm doing the executive director search for Santa Rosa um Island Authority it's in ska Beach very unique position up in the Panhandle U deals with lease revenues and quasi governmental type position he was semi-finalist in that position and you know he's obviously up in that neighborhood so that was of interest to him yeah okay yeah I thought he interviewed well he seemed very personable nice guy um I like his that he's currently in that sort of an economic development role but I think that it is quite different than the sort of De Economic Development than we're looking for I mean it's very manufacturing Focus he talks about how after the hurricane the Georgia Pacific plant um was it the Georgia Pacific plant it's a paper plant or paper kind of pulled out of the community after the hurricane um and dealing with that so very different than what we're trying to work with like developers here and hotel so I kind of I was excited about that position but then once I read more about it a little bit skeptical about the the applicability here I think it's certainly still a good good background to have um all those communities that he's been at are definitely much more rural small town sort of environment so it might be a little bit of a change of pace to be here on the on the beach but um certainly not um cause to take him out of the running for me I think he is a really great solid candidate anything else no okay all right and last but not least is your final candidate uh Ted Yates um Ted is currently in the private sector working as a general manager with a marine operation in Isa marada Florida um prior to that he did serve for um a year with the city as Village manager of the village Isa marada Florida uh comparable size obviously the keys would look and you know the keys are the keys they're different but but maybe similar in terms of the type of Tourism and activity that you would otherwise see um his background is a little more in the non-traditional approach in the sense that he was a strong mayor in uh the town of of the city of of um Twinsburg uh in Ohio and uh at that capacity under a strong mayor former government you're basically serving in the role of chief administrative officer and handling it but you sit for office so you're still the department heads are reporting you the budget is being developed by you all the um the the day-to-day functions go forward and that wetted his appetite he prior to that he served obviously uh on the Twinsburg City Council uh from 2009 2015 prior to being elected as mayor and then decided to move from there to advance his interest in public administration U for the C Village of alam marada um he is an attorney um background he's got land use trade and experience in attorneys um and so you can see that effort in his work so he does have a master's degree in Business Administration in addition to being a JD and a bachelor's degree in accounting um I know in Isa marada uh you saw in his background as well I know that's a short 10year post and I mentioned earlier most managers want to come in and feel that they can save and and and address the issues of concern U that Community has also gone through a lot of managers as you mentioned I think he said about 11 managers or this period of time and I'm familiar with a couple of those transitions so I know it's a tough town it's a tough Dynamic um and there's just some noise associated with that he also had a lot of Community Support asking the commission there to or the Village Council there to to retain him and not to uh to uh execute the contract after one year he was under probation for the one-year window so um Ted's been in a couple of my searches of recent I've gotten to know him much better I find him to be very transparent um he likes the smaller communities that was one of the interest I wanted to get a sense of that because uh coming from Ohio to the keys to here what does that look and feel like um he is also a finalist uh we're interviewing next week um for the uh Santa Rose Island um um Authority executive director position and he's got some family up in that part of the state as well but as he's he's got a lot of interest in the environment a lot of Waterfront interest obviously that was an attraction for him to go to ISA marada as well so that I'll turn it back over to for your comments so that entity has moved on to the finalist phase yes we're interviewing next Tuesday and Wednesday up there and he's one of five finalists in that position and Taylor is not a finalist he is not a finalist in that position right yeah all right anyone thoughts on T yeah I'll start off uh has he had any experience working with a um um a city council I think he's got experience as a strong mayor yes does he has any experience working with it like a commissioner counil uh yes uh both as a mayor he would be as a strong mayor would certainly have that but then also as a manager in Isa marada he he would have been in a traditional Council manager form I know it's a one-year window but um so those would have been the roles and he sat as you as a council member from 200 um 9 to 2015 so he would have worked you know both as a mayor as well as say a legislative body member um prior to being elected as mayor so he has kind of a little bit of D he been a manager short period of time a mayor longer period of time and a council member for extended period of time as well so he kind of brings three different elements of the legislative administrative pieces to the table thank you his uh his resume I thought he felt uh filled out everything well on the resume except on the educational background he's obviously well educated but pretty much everybody else uh that is a finalist at this stage uh mostly has uh their educational background is uh more related to to this particular position uh he I didn't think he interviewed particularly well he didn't smile I don't think even once uh and and uh and he just didn't seem very Dynamic for somebody with with his educational background I would have expected more of that uh he he he still is clearly bitter about whatever happened in AA Mara so I'm not sure what what that was uh and and anyway I just he I didn't I didn't end up ranking him very highly um my surprise on him is because I read about Isa marada and I have some friends that live in Isa marada and they do have um a turnover on their commission every two years they all turn over so that's kind of crazy on itself is to have a whole shift of new people come board on every two years so I think that was part of his um issues there the other thing that um struck me interesting with him is well he is that he does a lot in the community um he's involved with planting corals he's involved with his church he's involved in in the community himself itself and I think that's one of the things he also referenced his wife to what they do in their time off with the community I thought that was a very um positive attribute so you like question number four right I did because you know it gives you an idea who the real person is you know you have their formal part and then you've got the real person that's absolutely obviously going to be part of our community and that's a big consider ation to take into effect you know absolutely are they going to fit yeah we we we tend to look at these positions to be successful they've got to kind of click in three fronts they've got to obviously click with you as the governing body and then they've also got to click with your staff because every organization has its own culture and DNA and unless you're trying to blow that up which I don't have that any impression here um you want the manager to be able to kind of navigate those Waters well and the third element is what you just mentioned commissioner is navigating the community because it's a public position and and they're going to be seen in the community and being part of the events and the programs so uh that's kind of why we're trying to get a piece of that in this this process to understand how they might fit in and you can you can read that in to say that works or doesn't work in your community so well that's probably the nursing side of me coming out too so you know I I actually liked his experience I I liked seeing you know that he was a strong mayor I like that he was also a uh city council member um he's got a very strong background you know uh accounting than uh the MBA and then the uh the law school um and you know I I think that uh when I looked at the the interview um I just took him as he's a very serious guy um and I don't think that makes him unlikable or anything I think that it's a kind of a matter of a fact but uh I think that he uh he buys in there everything that he says and his family and everything else and you know so I I actually liked him yeah I did too yeah I really I liked his background his resume his application I liked that he came from is Marat I wish he had a little bit longer experience there but um that's kind of Beyond his control with that kind of a community um I do so initially and after reviewing this and um watching his video interviews I really liked him but the more I was thinking about his lack of experience in the city manager type role that we are used to with the council um manager form of government kind of concerned me um just because a strong mayor former government is very different and it is very political um and I worry that that isn't the style that we have here and we have had a very good history of um city managers who have worked with each one of our commissioners to align us and to make sure that they're Gathering our input and doing what steering the community in the direction that we want it to go to go in not in the direction that they want it to go in necessarily so I think that that would be our our challenge there I don't think it's um it isn't enough of a concern for me to like rank him a three and not move forward at all but I think it's just a a watch out I think it would be something that would be worth talking to him about and trying to get a little bit better of a read on um what his personality is and um whether that's something that he could adjust to and um kind of pivot to making sure that our priorities are his priorities and not vice versa that he's would be coming in with his own priorities trying to convince us what to do behind the scenes but I liked and I agree with you I think his he was a serious interviewer but I I feel like I can see past that a little bit that he might he probably is a nice guy and personable um which is again important to me and Twinsburg is an interesting town so it's close to where my parents lived so and it's named oddly that because they have a lot of twins yeah yeah and that's how it's got name it's kind of weird but seven years there as a strong mayor is a long time to I don't know what their terms were but I mean he obviously was doing a good job to get reelected and um it's a good siiz community so really great experience there um just like I mentioned I just I'm worried it might not be a line up perfectly but certainly worth exploring all I can add to I've spoken to Ted a lot he been obviously in a couple of my searches so I've gotten to to know him largely through phone calls and the conversations but I I find him to be very communicative um I don't find him I I I understand the nature of the comments about the interviewing the video interview process that looked and felt different to me than my conversations with him as I mentioned most of the time whoever you select you're going to find the candidates to be much more engaging when they're here face to face with you than they are talking to a blank screen but uh it is what it is at the area I can just only add that he's uh it's not that he's non-communicative or anything of that nature in my conversations I found it to be very fluent and easygoing in the discussions I've had um your point of you know anytime obviously you're coming from a strong are valid concern what does that look and feel like um all I can add is that his desire and I think he mentioned his report as well um that after serving in that role he really was more interested in City management and running the day-to-day without the the the trappings of an elected office so to speak and that I can just add that to the piece that that's what brought him to um the opportunity to go to ISA Marat he was a finalist in another position and didn't get that job and the Isam R position opened up but that's what he's conveyed to me of his interest in moving forward but it's a little bit of a non-traditional um but it's not totally out of the reach because in that role you're you're doing a lot of the work similar to a manager it's just you're an elected official as opposed to an appointed official yeah and as I go through I mean he his application in resume is actually one of the ones that I have more highlights um than most of the others um he has the golf course operations which is great background for us to have if we move forward with Treasure Bay um he has I really liked some of the things that he talked about as far as um fiscal management he said I'm not a proponent of taking last year's budget and arbitrarily increasing it by a certain percentage we need to be good stewards of taxpayer dollars and if there are Financial or operational efficiencies that we can implement we have an obligation to do so um fiscally conservative but I want to make sure the municipality is financially strong and both being building adequate reserves um so that really lined up a lot with my own philosophies um he's oversaw Labor Relations so he has experience with with that um yeah like I said a lot of I highlighted a lot of things there so I definitely am intrigued The Glenn Eagles Country Club golf club is a very nice golf club MH um they H PGA tournaments but that that place was originally just following by the wayside so he's done a lot of work with that my dad's a golfer so that's nice so all right okay that con all right um well I appreciate that and I'm sure the candidates do as well because as candidates that get selected and don't get selected it's helpful for them to get a feel for you know if they're applying for other positions about how they come across so I I appreciate your time and the energy and the the comments that you rais tonight as well um so what I thought we would do is move to the next step of now that you've heard your colleagues and you had your own thoughts and rankings of these candidates um what I'd like you to do if you um were able to do as we did to select your semi-finalist is really just use the scale of one being a candidate that you're really interested in advancing as a finalist oh I'm sorry before we go to that phase would now be a good time to ask for public comment and see if if any of our residents who have reviewed the resumés have anything to add certainly defer to you on that there absolutely let's do that um we have any public comment it would have been a little tedious to do that on every single one so everyone doesn't mind that we absolutely your comments in in Mark Hoy uh 104 225 104th right up here uh great process to go through and really I think uh you're hitting on the right things by and large because in my mind it was experience working in Florida experience as a city manager experience managing capital projects and experience promoting Economic Development those were the four things that stick out to me that will make the best candidate so I'll leave it to you to to pick one I I don't want to come and give you my picks out of of this at this point but I'll be happy to share it with you afterwards thank you all right thank you anyone else any other public comment all right then we'll move ahead with your process okay all right so the process we used last time that most of our clients use is uh the one oh Karen looks like you no you're good okay all right go ahead look like you were thinking about saying something ask people okay all right go ahead Doug okay um so the process we use the last R and most of our clients use is a simple effort one is you give a score of one it's somebody you're definitely interested in advancing and considering as a finalist two is someone that you could be convinced that you're comfortable with at least considering as a finalist and three as a candidate that you're not interested Ed in advancing as a finalist and um what I'll do is shift over to out of this and into a spread sheet here but my um everything kind of froze up on me here so let me see what we can do here all right Doug Doug can I ask a question or or make a suggestion about ranking people one two three here and that is uh should we force ourselves to kind of spread those one twos and threes evenly in other words there's 11 candidates should we put X number of ones X number of twos and X number of Threes um Val good good question commissioner um I'm I don't I don't necessarily feel you have to have them spread up that you've got five there ones or five there you're three or four that are two or three I think you just look at the candidates as they stand because what'll happen is you'll see just as you heard today you have different thoughts and opinions about the folks if you just rate them as I I'm comfortable with this person as a candal as a finalist is a one and don't worry about spreading it out to you know average your numbers um it'll Shake itself out that's been my experience in working with the boards okay thank you okay now I think I've got the laptop working again although the mouse isn't so I'll do this manually okay um so we can do this however you want if you want to take the same people to comment each time I know we we juggled this at the last round so I just left left the the rank the order the same but I can I can uh why don't we go in District number order as we usually do with like roll call um is that okay with everyone that's sure fine so Deb would be number one and then basically going down they di this way and end it with me gotcha okay super all right if you're all set with that okay okay they're all out of order okay so we just got them in the order that you saw them alphabetized from the first name so Carrie Vargo yeah one one okay I'm sorry I've got you wrong way here my my bad I'm screwing things up on you I'm Wicky now sorry about that okay it's okay oh I have to go down the whole list uh well let's okay good because I have to find them in alphabetical order cuz they were in variety of different alphabetical orders okay Comm I share doctor three three okay I share minning three one oh I'm sorry it was a was a three commission Dicky was a one one okay and one for me okay all right next candidate was Chuck Anderson one one one one one and one right okay three three okay Jim Slayton three one one one whoops my numbers here and commissioner doctor was a one sorry I hit the wrong key I normally use my mouse but that's a it's a one there right okay one for me as well mayor it's one okay je mahich two two three give me with this but this is the ban former man Bosman a three yes three three okay okay Ken Griffin Ken Griffin two two three three three Lawrence mcnaull one two three two two okay Patrick Kaminsky kamsky excuse me three two one one two break pardon Paul break Paul break uh most recently Royal woke I'm sorry one one okay three two three one Scott Moy two one two two one Taylor Brown one one one one two and Ted Yates two one one two too okay where it's at here got five form I'm trying to remember where they there's a assort that's what I was trying to get to um there it is s I [Music] got all right got going to do that for you I'm trying to find my area if normally I can uh just do the sorting and and go but it's not got it okay yeah you got it oh we did do it I'm sorry I I I was looking at the top and didn't realize it okay so all right so so you've got these are kind of your top the top five candidates so [Music] um got a couple a couple things here that we probably need to talk about you've got a three um with Mr Anderson and you've got a three with Mr Slayton I'm fine with and yeah so that that my comments yeah basically if if um you know to be fair the candidate they want to make sure that they're get a fair shot if they come in and be considered by that if those if you're comfortable with that that you know that's that's all we ask for at this stage yeah really for Chuck my reasoning for the three was I just the military structure and sternness is not something that I do well with but I think that um if he's can be flexible and Innovative thinks think outside of the box um then it's it's not a non-starter for me that's just not the type of Personality that I love working with but Gary's very much that way and Gary and I worked very well together sor great job we have a perfect example he's got some what the mayor is saying he can be adaptable right and has been um dab I know I know you've raised some concerns about the police chief issue is that is that enough to uh to say no that you willing to at least have a conversation I respect what my other colleagues have to say and I can roll with that that's fine okay it may surprise me okay um so you have a couple candidates that are right below that but they start to get into more threes as well uh in terms of a multiple threes um that would raise a a question as it relates to carry you've got a couple threes there so I'm not sure that that you know that may or may not be a factor and then you've got kind of a consensus out here um with some twos one three with regards to Patrick so my my question to you is are you comfortable with these five um is there anything that you want to talk through now that you've heard each other or you you think that the scoring represents a fair representation of what you'd like to to consider as finalist let's let's do talk a little bit more about Carrie Vargo primarily because uh we've got the extremes there we've got three ones and two threes y uh I'd like to hear if if you don't mind me asking uh uh the other Commissioners that rated him a threee what they saw that may maybe I didn't see I had a three and I just have in my notes no experience area was the um the township manager no Florida exp and Downton no Florida experience Florida thank you yeah I was say been an administrator or manager yeah okay but a lot of similar problems that we have was that your rationale too pretty much okay I mean I don't know him well enough to to to argue uh passionately to move him up the the ranks I mean the ranks rankings are what they are so if uh if if commissioner doctor and commissioner Min feel strongly about their threes then then uh I've got uh I I certainly can't raise my score to help to help uh Bargo out is there anything so let me let me pose this in the process so um we always ask our candidates after we come through this process we give them generally 24 hours say in are you out um and as I say I do know you've got at least one that's interviewing next week Ted Yates is interviewing up in in um U for for the Santa Rose Island Authority uh position he's one of five candidats there so I don't know what that outcome will be at this stage of the game um sometimes if you when we ask the candidates uh they may be involved in another Searcher we're about to ask them to put a little more skin in the game and they may or may not do it I I rarely lose them but it does occur um do you want to talk about the two that are rated at 1.8 um and keep them kind of in the in the bubble and if so could I get a ranking order that if we lose one or two of these other folks that we could potentially move them in because they're it's within a you know ston throw of of being in the in the top five so um it's probably worth some conversation about that that would certainly make me feel more comfortable um thoughts I'm good with that kind of our standby yeah yeah I agree um they are both scored the same so is there is there a preference right you got Carrie that's got three ones two two threes um stronger thoughts on that and then you've got um more of a consensus with Patrick uh in terms of the number so would you would you give me a a sense of priority between the two of which one would be first and which one would be second if by chance we lose a couple candidates and once again I'm not forcing you to make that decision I'm just throwing it out as an option for you yeah I think it's it's clear for for like my for me I scored Carrie a one and Patrick a two so I would I would obviously prefer to have Carrie as the higher rank but we do have it's just so I think it's going to be incumbent on the people that scored threes to chime in on a little bit more on why they scored threes there to be able to rank one or one of those above each other I already commented on on Vargo so yeah I don't have anything to add well without having anything to add we can't really distinguish between the two of them so how do we want to rank how do we want to order the two of them well if you'll take a look at the uh just the way it's set up what is a one what is two what is it three and two threes pretty much knocks out the uh the one three so you know I'm not I'm not I'm not going to try to do a standard number on my head here at the time um obviously the strong opinions on both sides of the equation with regards to to carry I guess the question is um you know are the threes deal breakers I mean I I it's not fair to bring a candle in if it's a deal breaker if you if you if you can't say I I just can't see myself based on what I've seen to go there it's not fair to ask the candidate to do what we're about to ask them to do to get prepared for it so um if if the threes are pretty entrenched to saying it you know I don't know that I can be convinced then I think that's a fair thing to know and then we probably talk about U talk about Patrick's well I like Mr Vargo because he's really not applied for another position in the in the state where the other gentleman has so that's one of my considerations with um carrying on with Mr Vargo maybe we just need to have a couple minutes to review our notes and then get back with you give us a couple minutes to think it through I don't know that it's going to change no maybe not but I just wanted to go back over a couple things that's all and and once I'm not trying to push you let I just want to since we're here it's probably worth of a conversation if you decide you know if we lose we lose one or two um but since they're so close if there's an interest Now's the Time to have that conversation yeah I mean for me I'm I'd be fine with either of them I don't want to say anything that would I don't have anything to say about either of those candidates that would prevent me from learning more about them through this process so I think it's kind of up to the rest of of the commission to flush that out I gave both uh both of those uh two that are on the bubble there a one so obviously I'm good with either either one either either one I mean I hate to ask you to do this because this uh probably speaks to our inability to make a decision here but if can you go to one more decimal point on there and see if it makes a difference I'm I'm certainly I I can change the you know if you want to do a 1.5 or on or anything of that nature we the reality the reality of it though is that uh we're saying we're going to get away from the the way that we rate because if there's two Commissioners that don't want to see the candidate that's not going to change no matter what you do with a decimal point well I think yeah but that's what we're trying what we're asking here and I don't feel like I've gotten th an a youen said a solid three that's was I said there with that in mind I think that's that's helpful um would you want to talk about Patrick because he he um you know he has the one three uh it's more of a consensus approach there in the area but um I'm just trying to help you sort through this do you have is is Patrick somebody that you could give further consideration I could give him further consideration yeah it's just not one of my favorite choices okay all right let's make Patrick our okay um sixth one then okay all right so and then we'll stop at that point we won't go any further at that stage make sense okay all right okay right go back to kind of next steps here would that throw out Mr that would eliminate Mr Vargo from the yeah from what we're being told Bas on what I'm hearing that's that's the direction I'm walking away with unless you're telling me differently that you have a you have a six candidate that if we lose a candidate or two um that Patrick would move into that slot but that's as far as we're going yeah okay all right it would be I think it would be helpful for me to understand the rationale for that more but if they if the other Commissioners that ranted them three aren't willing to share more then that's their prerogative to do so but okay understood okay let's talk briefly about kind of the next steps that will take place um as I mentioned the work for these candidates even though they've had a heavy lift we're about to ask them to do a little bit more um but this is to help them and to help you understand if it's a good fit so um we will get started with regards to uh the full-blown criminal history credit background verification of their crial all the databases driver's license checks legal criminal lawsuits all that sort of stuff gets done um we also are involved in in um doing a 360 evaluation of references for supervisors subordinates peers professional peers things of that nature um and then we do a full-blown what's called a stage two media search where we actually have people on sgr staff that based on their background and where they work they look at all the information that's available in the public domain and pull that together um anybody that's been in this business will have a lot of public media we break it down for you by anything that we view as potentially a finding or a controversy and so if you just want to skim those reports you'll get a link of that and but you can you'll get the full you'll get the full paperwork of everybody um and you can go through it we know that your community residents will do this and we want you to make sure you've seen that background as well so we'll flag if there's anything there of concern um I mentioned the last time we typically have our candidates for city managers do a written exercise called a first year game plan which is a document to say if you are appointed as treasure is successor manager what are you going to do in your first 30 60 90 180 days in the balance of the year and that'll lay out kind of a plan of action and they will all do that a little bit differently I've seen thousands of these they really will will give you some normative insights about their their kind of thought process and getting their head around the position um mayor I think you mentioned that there was a desire to do the dis assessment so we would have that so each of the candidates will participate in the dis they'll have a chance to download and see their report we will give you a report on each of those candidates as well as a summary report on all four of the candidates you can kind of compare them and that's helpful if you're familiar with disc I can certainly brief you as we get closer to that effort but you'll be able to kind of evaluate am I seeing the person that the disc is telling me or am I seeing something different so a lot of people like to use that as well um and then I mentioned the last time we typically for a position of city manager as part of our interview process most of our clients like to see how they present information in a succinct manner you're going to make a lot of PowerPoint presentations and speeches and programs in in the in the role of a manager so we try to use the Ted 10-minute uh theme as the approach and then we normally will talk to you about a concept of what that presentation would be on many of our communities will say do it about your first year game plan so that you can kind of walk through what that looks like and you can see how they present material and and and do a presentation sometimes we some of our communities will do um identify what you see as the challenges and opportunities in the position and kind of give them a chance to espouse where they think they're going to be involved with and what will be the biggest issues they'll be facing uh it can be about any number of other topics um but I try to get it to something that it's not going to require a ton of additional research for them to do given that they're going to be doing a lot of research to begin with so sometimes if it's about an economic development project or something that they're not familiar with that gets to be a challenge in terms of asking them to to get their arms around that but um sometimes we'll we'll have them deal with a topic like Downtown Development or Waterfront development and you know give your your experience your background we can we can work around that so I think there was a discussion to that you wanted to do that uh I just need some feedback if you're comfortable with me just selecting one of those topics or if there's a particular topic that you might want to have them do that that short PowerPoint on the one-year game plan uh presentation sounded interesting to me of the ones you've talked about okay I'd have to agree because it gives them um a perspective of what we're what they're going on what's coming on in our community and if they did their research on that agree sense all right okay all right good correction there um the other piece that I often will ask uh my communities and everyone does this a little bit differently um the kind of the best management practice and hiring for a chief executive position like a manager is to um Ensure that it's not just the manager that falls in love with your community but their spouse or partner falls in love with your community um if that doesn't happen no matter how much the manager loves your community that often forces them into a decision of spouse or family or or job so uh what we often and many of our clients will do is we'll invite the spouse or partner to be part of the process now they're not sitting in the full-blown interviews but they would get the tour of your community they'd get a chance to do the meet and greets you've got some lunch things that have been discussed so you get a chance to mingle and they get a chance to kind of see it and also in many cases during the process a spouse or a partner may be looking at schools and you know doing research on houses and things of that nature and they make a decision whether it feels right if they're ultimately offered the position so but that's an entirely a call by you as a as a city um many of our communities do that and they will at least cover the cost associated with having their spouse or partner come um but that's I need some directions on how you might want to proceed with regards to that I would agree I would agree yep yeah okay all right um okay so the other piece I want to just kind of walk you through I've been working with Jessica and your HR division about trying to pull together uh a sample schedule I had no idea if you're going to pick three four or five candidates but I took the gamble that you're probably going to land on five so the schedule we've got together uh so far will be kind of Representative of this so let me kind of walk you through what that looks like uh typically we have the candidates come in we'll work with you to arrange for a hotel um for them to come in the night before because the two days they're here are full-blown days you'll see this going forward we want to make sure especially those who are traveling out they're not hung up in an airport or something like that so we try to get them in the night before so they'd be coming in on the um the 18th so on Wednesday um we've started with a process where they would go through um an opportunity to meet with a two different panels of your senior staff here and so they'll get they'll both have prepared questions and issues and they'll spend um we've got them scheduled for a half an hour with each of those um after that we are scheduling the candidates to go out on individual tours uh of the community so they'll get a chance to see your development and see your neighborhoods and see the projects and all that so they get a feel for what that looks and feels like and then um we've been discussing the possibility of doing what we call a welcome lunch U from 11:30 to 12:15 where um you as a council would have a chance to commission would have a chance to meet with these candidates and just kind of talk to them a little bit before you're in an interview type process with them and get to know them welcome them the community and they'll you know once again they're they're trying to they're checking you out as much as you're checking them out so these sort of soft touch points are very very important um so that's the morning of the first day and the second part of the day is go back certainly absolutely I'm a little I want to I'll ask the question before I say I'm concerned about it but thought process on the city tour guides Mike helrick and Stacy and Kathy and Mike who's the what's the thought process on them being the leaders that know the area real well is that Kathy and Mike Munger or Mike Mike Baker Baker I'm Baker that's what I was thinking I would prefer to I think that that kind of sets up the tours to be a little bit skewed towards if this one candidate ends up with Mike and Stacy they're going to get a public works Focus tour and if they end up with Kathy and Mike they're going to get a parks and W I trust they're competent to do that but it might be helpful to mix so do like Mike heli and Mike um Baker and Stacy and Kathy so that they kind of get both that's absolutely smart right yeah that's a good idea I mean those are two really important parts of a touring the community so to get both as both perspectives from staff would be helpful I think okay all right make that um the second part uh you like most of my Florida clients uh because of the nature of this business traditionally have one-on-one meetings so we are scheduled for uh 45 minute sessions where you get to do somewhat of a speed date I'll say it on Long dating most speed dating aren't 45 minutes but an elongated process you get a chance to meet with each of these candid individually and we've got you all set up in a separate room and we'll knock on the door five minutes before you go and we'll just rotate the candidates around so you'll get a chance to see that as well um and then uh at the the end of the day I'll have a chance to debrief with your executive team and also your tour guides to get a sense of any reactions and feedback and resonance those things so that I can capture kind of my impressions as well as their impressions of how the candidates interacted with the staff and your community and your teams um I'll provide a high Lev briefing of that for you for the the next day and then that wraps up the candidat get a little break and then we're back uh here at City Hall for a community meet and greet where typically the way that works mayor is once the there's a sufficient size of a crowd um normally you welcome the folks there um many times you'll turn it over to me I'll explain how we got to this point and we'll work with your staff and have a handout with bios and pictures of your finalist and then I normally um will have each of the candidates just do a very brief introduction of themselves and then at that point they kind of get spread out at the different parts of the room and the crowd will work them uh or work around the room and listen and ask questions I encourage you all to be present for that meeting um because many of your stakeholders are going to provide feedback and reaction that's an opportunity for them to share their thoughts and opinions U but I also encourage you not to necessarily be engaging with those candidates because you this is your community's time to do that but you're really kind of assessing how that works um that's a non-legislative item for you but you're you're going to be present for the right reasons and you'll see how they react to you know all your different constituents as well um so the next day then is uh the busy day for you it's a full day of interviews um we will start off in the morning I'll do a brief we will certainly prepare packets of information which we have proposed questions and issues and the dos and don'ts of interviews and all that that we'll give you ahead of time we ask you to prioritize the questions that you individually feel are important and we'll take a quick tally of those and get those all in order so that you're ready for your interview process and then there may be other questions each of you may want to ask that we can talk through to make sure we've got them worded appropriately and and um you know in the right formats um and then the way we normally work this is 90-minute interviews it may or may not take the full 90 minutes it all depends on the candidate but basically that gives you about 60 minutes for a traditional interview about 10 minutes for the PowerPoint and then some Q&A and banter about either the PowerPoint presentation or questions that the candidate may have for you and I know that may seem long but every time I've worked with a client they said we only want an hour they always walk away saying we we want more time and I've never done two hours because it's too long so 90 minutes is kind of the The Sweet Spot and we can work that through so we'll kind of work your way through that process with some appropriate restroom and biological breaks and lunch breaks and things of that nature uh if we're running ahead of schedule uh you may or may not need to take a break for dinner um but many of my communities that that happens they'll they decide to take a break after the a full day and then come back and reconvene and and go through deliberations um and at that point it's a matter of conversation with you about which candidate or candidates that you would like to proceed with um if it's identified that there's one uh normally what we'll do is we'll work with you to identify either at that meeting or the next day um very briefly at kind of a high level of a term sheet and then we'll help you work with your attorney and your your staff to and whoever the commission may appoint to to be part of that negotiation process but we'll help you kind of work through those details and utilizing your existing um contract as as kind of the template for those things so so that's the way that the candidates would not be in the room when we're deliberating right I mean obviously public record it's on video they can watch it when they want to but they'll be dismissed for we typically and and all these folks are professionals they they they won't sit in on that meeting and we'll ask them even though it's a public meeting to not even if they've got some downtime to not be watching a video or anything of that nature we we asked them to be professionals about that but in Florida it's all public so we can't enforce that but I've never had a candidate kind of sit in on those for other candidate interviews so but so we typically release them at the end of the day whenever they're done and they can go on to do their thing and then at the end of the process we'll have a conversation with you as a group okay and then just of Tim taes uh we're here in the second kind of red area down um I get to this point we're right around it's not showing up there uh we're we're in selecting your semi-finalist what you'll see next is we'll be um working with the candidates to confirm their interest and and continued interest in the position we'll get them started on the disk assessments get them the information for their first year game plan and the assessment uh for their PowerPoint so they can get started they immediately fill out their background material we start our stage two media searches and then our goal is to get you a briefing book um as well as your staff respective briefing book for theirs that will have their questions and things accordingly uh to have that going out around the end of the month and May 31st and um we just need a couple weeks there to get all that number one let the candidates do their work and to complete all the criminal history credit and reference check work to be done so then you'll get that at the end of the month and then you've got a little time to work through those materials and be ready for your interview process on um the two days that we have scheduled so so will that presentation that they're preparing happen will that be on video or will that be like part of their interview we in person what we normally do is um we let them work I asked for the the first year game plan ahead of time so it can be in the briefing books but we allow them to continue to work on their PowerPoint up until the start of the on-site interview process then they'll give it to me in an and a flash drive or email it to me and I'll make sure it works with your it folks here um it's normally part of the 90minut public interview with you as a board great so if the community wants to see that they'll be able to see that benefit as well absolutely okay yep perfect very good any other questions any issues with the schedule no good I've put in for the Thursday off cool Wednesday is a holiday for us so ni very good right well I from my STP thank you so much I appreciate it I know this's a lot of work to go through it but I mentioned before this is one of the most important things you do and so I know your candidates appreciate your due diligence and working through it and even the ones that don't get selected it's helpful for them as they consider other opportunities going forward so thank you so much for the work um I am here as a kind of an extension of your staff so if there's questions or issues that come up at any time you're welcome to contact me but uh we'll be cranking on the schedule accordingly so all right sounds good thank you Doug great you all right with that we are adjourned thank you very much