live okay well it is the afternoon now so good afternoon everybody good afternoon uh we are on let's see Thursday May 30th 2024 at our local planning agency uh so I'm calling this meeting uh to order we've already done the Pledge of Allegiance earlier this morning at 10:02 a.m. maybe maybe 10:01 a.m. uh in our Planning and Zoning done the self phone announcement no need for a roll call we have the same attendance minus Christopher Downing um he has needed to depart so we can get right into the presentation of items we have a um review uh sorry 6. review LPA resolution 2024 which recommends approval of ordinance to church or School Exception by removing the 50 room requirement for hotels from the exception amending SE section 68-32 to correct a codification erir amending section 68- 484 accessory uses in motels or hotels to distinguish between accessory uses and incidental Services um so with that being said and I think that that is something that we had reviewed before it was sent a commission and then sent back so everyone should be very familiar with it um and being that I never have made LPA notes I think I go into staff presentation presentation that's it I've had it um so you are correct this was actually brought before you guys back in March uh March 21st of 2024 um and you recommended approval to the city commission um just as a reminder uh what was brought to you was um section 68 484 uh which basically states that incidental Services used in connection with either hotels or motels including cigar and Candy stands restaurants and lounges personal service shops and similar uses may be permitted by special exception provided at least 50 hotel motel units shall be contained within the building so what was brought before you was remove that 50 room requirement um so that any hotel could have a small accessory use um so we brought that to the commission um there was also a caveat in there that only 10% of the floor area could be used for incidental services so the commission asked us to kind of re-evaluate that 10% to see if it needed to stay in um so we kind of looked at it and we made the determination based on the definition of an accessory use and um there's another section on accessory uses general which kind of says that it has to be uh customarily incidental to or in subordinate to the principal use so any accessory uses we approved would would not be the primary use on the property um so we determined that we could remove that 10% um with the exception of alcoholic beverage establishments we left that in there as just a straight you could only have 10% for an alcoholic beverage establishment um there were a couple other changes we made uh one was to correct an error in the codification of the code and then we kind of did some we um better defined the difference between accessory use and incidental Services um to make that a little bit more clear so that's kind of where we what's before you right now do anybody have any questions I mean I I'm all for it because I think it just helps business owners so am I so am I I think that's the intent yeah I like it I mean you can't you know you know if you're a what it just helps business owners and having one of one of the biggest complaints that you hear from these business owners how do we keep people here so we've got to add something to have that they can offer is there any pending like applications Katherine where this impacts them or I mean are they aware we've had discussions with several hotels that this 50 room was a limiting factor so there are two that I'm aware of that um would like like this change okay and when it comes to the the change that we are proposing I mean they they they I guess my question in regards to all right let me re hit the reset button my apologies in regards to the hotel community that we currently have in place is the majority of the feedback for this type of change that we're trying to implement I don't really know the answer to that question all I can talk about is new proposed hotels or remodels of existing hotels where they want this change in order to be able to have a restaurant or a bar okay so this the stuff that has been pending they're they like they like where this is headed yes okay and they've seen the updates to it type thing uh probably only in today's agenda packet okay but I think they're aware of it okay we kept them aware okay thank you and sorry I just have one last question yeah in the com does the commission know of the revisions so commission sent it back yes did they they're aware of the revisions that we now are repr proposing because the last thing I want to do is send it to them again send it to them again and come back and they kick it back to us yeah I believe they've all had a chance to take a look at it okay good all right um so we will go to we did that we did um anything additional now ready staff have any real concerns about this no no I don't no no we we we talked it over a fair amount I I mean I think it's provides a little more flexibility um you know so ultimately up to them to decide how big they want to go but I mean they obviously can't go above the primary use but right um I think we spent a lot of time on this one so okay I'm willing to make a motion okay I don't have any well hold on hold on yeah so I don't have any cards uh is there anybody making public comment today on this item great and I will entertain a motion okay I move to approve resolution 20244 which recommends adoption of the revised ordinance of 20 24-3 to the city commission second roll call vote please Madam clerk Michael heres yes Diana kille yes Marvin cha approved yes Ross Sanchez yes Gary penana yes sorry motion by um our fabulous Diane crille and seconded by Mr Michael heres pass good awesome like I'm usually thanking somebody like go build go build your building or go sell go do your thing like yeah we're all a little thrown off go submit your applications people the city of treasur Island needs businesses come on all right um we do have one more item 6B Workshop to review draft orian is for chapter 8 building in chapter 66 flood plane management you ready this is you yes all right you're we have all you have all of our ear good afternoon so we're bringing back in ordinance form uh things that we've discussed at previous workshops um for chapter 8 which is building and chapter 66 which is the flood plane management regulations big picture overview a lot of things moved out of chapter 8 and into chapter 66 you will see them struck through it doesn't mean they disappeared um there was two main reasons for that one is that a lot of the things that were in chapter 8 are already in the Florida building code and did not need to be locally adopted because they have subsequently been implemented into the building code so like half of them kind of went away and I'll go through it um and the other half went to chapter 66 the ones that are specific to Treasure Island uh the state um has a new plan which they call plain language where they like these amendments to stay in the flood plane code um and not in the building code which has to be reopt every time they update the building code potentially and so they wanted something that had a longer life um we are making changes to chapter 8 to say the currently adopted building code rather than citing a specific year uh but there still may be other changes that come through that have to result in a change to the building uh chapter so uh I gave everyone a uh packet of this printed out that matches the one I have so I can go by the page numbers in the bottom right corner and I just want to go through the changes with you if that's okay so we can kind of highlight how everything that we talked about with um Justin has become in ordinance form uh chapter 8 there are some problems with this draft that you have as far as the the numbering and the section numbering and there's one outstanding question on the fire code so we will be correcting that from this version that you see but basically this is final language so the first change you'll see is on the packet in page 20 um and that is the change that I mentioned earlier where we're getting rid of a specific addition of the building code and just saying the currently adopted Florida building code that rolls over on to the next page you'll see it also rolls into the national electrical code um and you'll see it one more time on the next page where it struck out of the local administrative amendments we also got rid of the reference to 2020 uh then we skip on over to everything Remains the Same until we get to page 25 25 25 and so the change there is we used to have the whole process for an owner Builder permit called out in our uh chapter 8 that is actually in the Florida Statutes and that changes from time to time at the state level we're going to reference that instead rather than adopting that locally just uh to make that cleaner so that covers the next two pages three pages next change is on page 28 um these are where the changes start from the things that were moved out of this section and moved into the flood plane code or we were redundant to the Florida building code so um you'll see where it says C chapter 66 in the middle of that page that means these requirements move to the flood plane code then you will see not word for word but the generally these requirements move to the flood plane code um we added a new section to go to the flood plane code talking about um definitions that's where you'll see um substantial Improvement and those other things that we talked about we'll go through that in flood plane uh next one went to chapter 66 on page 29 the next two actually went to chap to chapter 66 well next four where up to page 30 page 31 they went to page two chapter 66 um the ones that are simply all struck through those were redundant with the Florida building code where they didn't say C chapter 66 those are just gone because they're already in the Florida building code so um then we get to the pretty much the end of this and that is the fire code we are still working with the uh Fire Chief and fire inspector just to make sure we've got the right citations in here but it's just referencing the currently adopted version of the code in any local amendments so that's basically it for chapter eight is there any questions or comments or discussion on that just seems like it's more of like it just seems like it's more of kind of like a reshuffle retitling type thing to make sure it makes accurate sense yes okay yes really no fundamental changes in there other than referencing some things that go in chapter 66 like definitions that were some of them moved okay and some they were also enhanced because some things were not defined in reference to the building code appreciate you so um I know it's been a long day so I'm going to go pretty fast but please let me know if you have questions um for chapter 66 um that starts on page 35 of your packet um so the first Chang is on page 37 you'll see we have a new address as you all know you'll see that um we now reference the terrain modification manual that will actually be adopted as part of our code so when you see a reference to this it's just referencing another part of the code uh the terrain modification manual we've been over it in very general yeah large picture form it's very long document very complex as you know uh so we will definitely be bringing that back to you in a final form with more discussion about that so I have a question sure is there no chance to leave the terrain modification as a siloed type of Vote or process rather than putting it into this updated LPA code I guess is that the is that how we're describing it so it is the question whether we need to adopt the manual yeah so like cuz you made the comment when it comes to terrain modification it's going in with all these other changes that we're rewriting our lpas right yes if the terrain modification thing still was mean it's like it's either like you can get all these changes done but it includes terrain modification the only way you can get those changes done is if you are on board with the terrain modification is there any chance that the terrain modification could be siloed or separated so then we could still focus on our regular regular you know revisions that we've been making and I know and I know that I'm the outlier here because there's been a lot of work by staff and by consultants and everybody involved in the train modification and I understand the purpose of it as I've mentioned before um but reviewing it understanding it a little bit more um you know coming up against some in internal struggles in regards to being like on board for it so like I was asking the question today in this meeting to say you know can I be on board with the LPA and then can we me personally have the terrain modification be a separate item so the way that it works is right now the way that it's proposed right now it is integral to eight different chapters of the Land Development regulations um so the way that they are written now they're accommodating terrain and fill and all of those things so to pull that apart would be to reapo this completely MH um and if there were other changes in here like in the building code that we need to make we would just be instructed to come back and make those changes you know that would be our our guidance is we don't want to rain but we want to update the code um as you all know we're going through a major rewrite of our whole code with um a different consultant that's more focused on the ldr part of it the Land Development regulation part of it so these are um only addressing unless it's like a glaring conflict things to do with terrain okay like for in since we'll be bringing you proposals for fence wall Hedges retaining walls because that you have to address that you look atation it changes it yes yeah again I mean I'm not trying to crush anybody I just the the the terrain modification thing I just I have my opinion on it is I'm struggling like I said a little bit with it because I just feel like when it comes to what where the city wants to go and I get that it's a 100-year Outlook but you know you look around you drive around you bike around you walk around around and I just feel like there we there's some type of struggles that currently exist and I'm concerned that the terrain modification or Elevate TI AKA um could potentially hinder that potential growth or that type of progression now there's there's two different ways to look at it obviously it could obviously help it may attract people but I just I don't know if we need to be looking at other things to help you know if we're going to if we're going to say you we prefer you to go through this Elevate TI process through this code what maybe we need to be looking at other things that we could potentially give in in whether that's height whether that's density whatever it may be I just feel like that's something that we may have to review okay well um included in the proposal is this height adjustment Factor as we call it so you're not losing height with the program we've gone through that like I I know that you go two feet you still get your two feet we're not squeezing um I just okay I mean I see where Ross is coming from I mean why wouldn't you come up and say hey let's make sure everybody's on board I mean I just feel I'm getting a lot of qu like there's a lot of questions I mean I was out just just walking you know with my son and someone had pulled me over and like oh hey I've seen you on the meetings like you know I have concerns about this elev8 TI thing and this that and the other and it's like okay and then you know the other day I was not even on Treasure was on Publix because I don't go to this Publix it's 33% more more Co cost impact but anyway you know and people were asking those questions and again Katherine I know that you have spent a lot of Blood Sweat and Tears into this so I don't want to be that person that's adverse to the whole motion of where this is going but I just have to ask that question because it just seems like there's a lot of things and my initial question was more along the yeah I understand we need changes here it going to automatically include this terrain modification and like I just it's a it's a struggle for me because I know administratively we just had three applicants come through our packet was 500 pages so now we've got train modification that book alone is I think you said 500 pages I know that I haven't read the entire book well let me let me back that one up a little bit because really the manual itself is not 500 the supplement with every point in the city and all the the elevations is probably 300 pages I don't have it in front of me but um so but you're going to be looking at your specific development type so you're not going to look at the you're not going to have to look at the whole book and from a civil engineering perspective um I think that might be a good thing to bring some in and talk to them about what it means to them from designing a site um but it literally is it's a drain it's a drainage equation that they have to do anyway it's just a different yeah appro it's a different cookbook I guess for how to do your drainage and I and I and I and I get that and I know that that's important for where we for where we for where we want to go um a real life example that I'm thinking about just in present day is like the Treasure Bay situation right so today there's no permit to reconstruct Treasure Bay I I get that we have Lev TI let's say Lev TI comes in okay well now we're talking about lifting does Lev ATI impact the Reconstruction project of potentially a renovation of a golf course it technically would right because you're lifting it the seaw wall or the buildings yes okay so there I mean I'm saying there's there's some there's some impact there and I get the again I want to be glass half full approach where it comes to yeah it should be it you know the golf course elevated is a good idea or the buildings elevated is a good idea um but also that's more work could could potentially be more money it could we don't we don't know that yet I mean I think that question that we had earlier was interesting so um you know not only the Treasure Bay situation but um you know our downtown area our other areas the you know the other areas that are empty I just I'm trying to figure out what is the hindrance of progress that has it's taking place and I just need to make it clear that the Elevate TI thing I think could potentially be an additional hindrance to that type of growth and opportunity for people to you know invest in Treasure Island um not trying to Advocate but just to let you know that the people we're talking to are mostly wanting to elevate so um for instance we had a meeting uh with the church on Paradise and they need to redo their sea wall it's about 50 something years old they know that this is coming they're very excited to be able to pull that Seawall up use that fill push that Seawall up and protect their property because they're looking at um um longterm really longterm protecting their property so um the feedback has been mostly positive I mean people have concerns because it's complex yeah you know being very honest it's we're explaining it the best we can without an adopted code of what this would mean for your particular property because we have people coming in and saying I want to wait and I want to do this with the new fill regulations because people really want to raise their seaw walls and so it kind of all comes together like raising your house raising your seaw wall raising the roads it kind of comes in a package yeah but the church isn't the church isn't raising their chur the church fortunately the church is actually high they had we had their ancient elevation certificate from 20 something years ago and uh when they did an addition so we were able to you know kind of have that conversation about them being able to raise their seaw wall yes because you don't want to put the church in a bowl obviously we all know that mhm and but the way the terrain modification manual works it wouldn't it would say you can't because obviously you don't want to put your building in a bowl okay all right one of the things I just want to add with the um ordinances that are before that are before you right now and being considered is many of the changes that are being proposed in those ordinance are tied directly to the terrain modification so there are there are nine ordinances that will travel together you're getting them in individual slices correct um but if the if the decision W you know if the decision is to move forward with train modification these are the nine that need to happen if the decision was to not move forward with terrain modification then we wouldn't the staff would not be proposing these nine ordinances there are other changes um I will tell you that like like for instance the fire code change that we're talking about in eight that one we just bring back in a different ordinance because it's it's something that we thought well while we're amending it we'll go ahead and add that in fix that fix that issue so there are things within the ordinance that would be brought back separately um that are clean up items and while we have that section of the code open you know we're choosing to clean it up but if that helps answer the question that you had it does I'm just concerned about you know you want some of these other stuff cleaned up up but then the levati thing causes concerns it's I just feel like they're kind of stuck together type thing well from a vote from a from a voting perspective do I have that wrong no no I I understand what you're saying I will tell you I don't think there are many items in these ordinances that aren't affiliated with the terrain mod manual I think they're they're um like the fire one is and there I think there was clean up in eight is because it's old it's really old and just had to I get it but I think the majority in 66 clean it up okay so we leave it for seven but from a discussion standpoint if someone can just walk me through the timeline then of what's take place for meetings and things like that then I would great well that's why we wanted to bring you these ordinances in in small workshops because I don't think you want to Workshop nine ordinances in one day and I don't think you want to adopt nine ordinances without having Workshop them individually so that's why as they're ready um we are working very hard to churn these out and we would have more for you if we could but everything is more complex than any of us think and so you know we're making sure that they're not unforeseen okay consequences of changing things because every one of these changes seems to be rolling into another part of the code and that's what we're trying to track the I get how complex it is yeah and I'm not bagging on the city but adding more complexity to our entire situation actually does give me fear I'm just you know no I'm I'm glad we're having this conversation like the highest power you know we're not a real high powerered city when you come comes to looking around I mean I know we got this big fancy building but I I'm with you okay sorry to interrupt I no no I'm glad we're having this conversation because it's important because what would happen with chapter 8 for instance is just come back to you with only the changes that needed for housekeeping okay thank you because I don't think it's gone through its threeyear cycles of read-option okay so we're kind of looking back a long way um we're on page 37 um we just talked about those two things the terrain manual and the address the next changes would be um just to clarify what goes in your application for a permit so we are uh just describing the forms the female forms that are needed and the um how to do a substantial damage or substantial Improvement application so that's really just paper the paperwork confirmation of what forms we were using um page 39 once again references the trrain manual and then we go into definitions on page 39 the new definitions are on page start on page 40 first one is a building we wanted that to simplify that we had many definitions of a building in every single chapter of our code that were all different so this is coming straight out of the Florida building code and it is short and clear so we figure that is the best one to use especially since the flood plane code has to seg into the building code because the Florida building code deals a lot with flood management um um the next change will be at the bottom of that same page where we talk about natural grade so we've come up with some new terms natural grade we'll get to in a moment um what that means uh then we on page 41 you will see there are three FEMA forms that we describe which ones to use we've just been getting a lot of paperwork that just doesn't meet the FEMA standards so we just want to be quite clear about which forms you need to use not something that you got out of the archive from 20 years ago that you have at your office that you need to use the current adopted FEMA forms because we get audited by FEMA and if we don't have all our ducks in a row then we're not in good shape so we've been very strict on pushing back on these but we just want to lay it out in code uh the next thing is Phil um we have a description of Phil um material including but not limited to soil gravel or crushed stone that is placed in an area to increase ground elevations which is different than structural fill and then we have finished grade and that's the finished grade after you do fill the next changes roll over to page 40 four where we go into natural grade and that is the prefill so we're using those terms in the manual we're using those terms in this section of the code um to describe how much you can fill and what the fill is measured from um and then we have a definition of non-structural fill which is not supporting the structure so um might be a parking slab under a house um which is not supporting the structure above it supporting the parking slab but nothing else um I'm sorry non-structural fill and then we go on the next page on page 45 structural fill and that's compacted fill which does provide structural support um once again structure straight out of the building code um substantial Improvement this is something we discussed a lot prior this was the 5-year period which is a cumulative 49% um this begins when a permit is issued starting on whatever date we trigger this whether it's August 1st September 1st whatever we're going to give people time after adoption before this goes into effect even though we've made huge Outreach on all of this on the next page page 46 this is where we get into everything that came out of the building code and came over here to live in the this is a real mix because a lot of this was in the flood plane code it's been reorganized or it was in the building code and it came over here so it's a good mix the forms once again we are just making sure that we this is the kind of administrative part this is the FEMA forms once again saying these are the forms you have to use the next part this whole section one A B and C is all about forms um no real change to what we're doing it's just codifying what we require um the next part Begins the actual um changes that came over from the building code so this is substantial damage and substantial Improvement um shall be as defined in this chapter so we're saying okay we've moved all this out of the building code into our chapter and have our definition um these minimum building elevations on page 47 these are the same as they always were it's 2 feet above freeboard for the uh living space the foundation design requirements we moved that over that was always required um the enclosures below required elevations this was all in here we just moved it into a different section so it applies to all buildings the only difference is we accepted those commercial buildings um that are either purely commercial or commercial areas of mixed use structures I.E downtown we allow those to be partitioned when they're dry flood proofed so that's um that was a big problem with uh Downtown Development that I don't think anybody realized and when we were looking at this code we said we've got to address that um in order to facilitate this mixed use Vision that we have for downtown where we've got commercial on the on the ground floor quote unquote and the ground floor may now be 2 feet above where the ground floor would be today but that's not a substantial change as as was discussed by the um condo developer that was here earlier it's really Phil um so none of these These are either either already in the building code enhancements of the building code or we're already in the flood plane code so what's new is the exception and the substantial damage substantial Improvement definitions um next changes we get to are on page 48 once again a reference to the manual um and then we have the manual again and then we go down to the bottom of page 48 sex section 66-33 point5 um the changes to allow nonstructural fill of up to 40 24 in which you'll see there everything else is pretty much carried over from the previous code um other things in this section the number D was in a different part of the code it was just moved here for consistency um and then in number two in the middle of page 49 uh the you in areas that are not Coastal High Hazard and Coastal a they need to meet the building code and the terrain mod manual and then they can have fill so those are the two criteria for fill um and then on bottom of page 49 9 all we did was add a definition for manufactured homes coming out of the state statutes um that's more of a house cleaning thing and housekeeping underground tanks uh we adopted some language um from FEMA from their FEMA guidance in there so question sure um the manufactured home things yes you're saying that that was always in our yes we have are not a permitted use in the city they always have never been okay even if they're even if someone put in pilings and bolted one on the top of it no but there is I'm seeing in the statutes there is a difference between a modular home which is a factory-built home and a in a manufactured home which is like a chassis on a chassis okay those are two different things under the Florida Statutes okay so a modular home is a permitted use but that's built on you know on same kind of structure as anything else a garage structure with pilings um nowadays or without depending on what flood zone it's in um and it may come in pieces to the site like four modules yeah but um that is different than it's built different it's built to the Florida building code okay um as compared to the other one it's just licensed differently by the state thank you m c you are welcome welcome um going on to page 51 um we added a in coastal High Hazard and Coastal a zones we added that you can't have a turn down slab that's just clarifying something um about construction um because those have to be frangible they have to be Breakaway washable wash away walls wash away slabs um changes we made to decks and patios in coastal High Hazard areas um we talked about them being no more than 24 in above grade that's because of the fill requirement for decks um dexer patios um we just struck some language in number what is now 4B and then in on page 52 we added a reference to the manual and that's the changes we have to those they'll come back to you in a finalized ordinance form with correct uh sections and numbering and all that good thing but the content is basically as proposed with the exception of the fire code which we need to get clarity from the fire chief thing on the bottom of 51 where you said it's 4B it's still going to be 3B just okay oh another see there's typos yes yeah it's okay we were we were all collectively in a hurry to get this one done looks great it should be three it just be B there oh this is yeah 3 a and way the a was done yep yeah so our plan is to bring you ordinances in in sections like this as they as we get them prepared and uh then come back however many hearings we need to have to get to a final adoption hearing or not adopt but they were saying like the August 1 thing right isn't that what some of so that was a early Target thinking that we would be done at LPA in June okay and going to commission three times in July so we're in May today so we're probably a month I have to look at Stacy's latest email but it's not going to be August one it's not going to be August one okay yeah so you guys still work on like you said putting this together as one packet do we have any other departments or avenues that we that will be in front of us for the next LPA meeting when it comes to to updating this we will have more sections of more sections of the code to Workshop yes yes okay how many more sections hopefully wants to say all of them hopefully all of them okay well no because I know you've been breaking it up you've been doing the different things so are we done with the breakup portions of it like moving them and that part of it yes yes and you've had kind of the introductory big picture ofre the Big Ideas like there are three related to utilities those are just one is new which is just a storm water chapter I got you and one is taking all the other utilities and cleaning that up basically and the other one is more of the rates and finance and fees and and process right we so those are pretty straightforward other than the real new thing is storm water right yeah you previously there's three chapters but it's really one just like these are interrelated and that we were moving things from 8 to 66 you have um currently in the code there are two Provisions that deal with utilities um one is in the Land Development regulations and one is outside the Land Development regulations and then there's this new introduction of storm water and so we're kind of tailoring all three of those and putting things where where they should be so you've got those three ordinances you'll have the ordinance that adopts or doesn't the um terrain modification manual and then you'll have 68 689 so 68 um there are some changes within the zoning code that'll um like Katherine was talking about with regard to retaining walls and hedges and fences so um there are some changes in in that particular chapter of the code that relate to terrain and then 69 which you've been briefed on which is uh the seaw walls um and so that'll be coming back for you in an in an ordinance form and so all of those we're hoping to bring at that time okay and they'll be workshopped yes just like these were workshopped okay well I like the approach of us just going and looking at the at the changes I like this approach it cuts through it a little bit better for us yeah because there's a lot of words but there's not a lot of changes to these two for instance it's more like a reorganization in this case and the building code to be honest a a much needed update just to the just to the code references all right Katherine good for 6B of your presentation good anybody additional questions all right uh local planning agency issues comments or discussion does anybody have anything LPA related okay reports of City attorney staff and board members none nothing nothing man give me a minute next next LPA meeting we talked about it planning zoning June 27th it says it's at 3 p.m. that's obviously contingent on the the timing is contingent on the agenda for the Planning and Zoning um but I do like having them on the same day so I appreciate staff's working ability to make that happen for us can I ask one question about that if we wanted to start early depending we don't know how many pnz cases we have and probably will know that in a week or two but um we have a whole bunch of pending cases and they some finally make it through the starting game like these three today I've been around for a while you'll notice that parking lot has a 2022 case number um but um would you be available to start early that day just kind of taking ath absolutely not okay this morning early stuff is just not conducive for me okay anybody else when you say early are you talking about like 10 a.m. or are you talking about 11 12 1 like just know that it might be a heavy day and usually it just set it's a known thing that it's 2 p.m. I mean right yeah pnz stands at 2 and I'd like to keep that if we can but then it might be a long day yeah I I just have it lock blocked to my calendar Thursday okay that's actually the fourth Thursday we actually had to move um that because the city manager um interviews and commission decision day past 5 o' right we can't go past 5 can we or we long as there's no other meetings in this facility no we should be fine we can stay 2 o00 2 o' 2 o'clock okay yep and if we just have to run late we're run late we can run late yeah and I'll just book it on the calendar late stop before we finish because yeah and if it's running really late like we have a really heavy case we can always take a break for a half an hour and have some snacks and you know make it not so we've done okay any public comments thank you thank you for that and uh adjournment I move to adjourn second second