24 if you wish to speak on a topic which is on today's agenda a speaker card is available at at the table over at the entrance and must be completed and given to the chairperson please do not address the board from your seat but rather from the podium where the comments can be heard by all and recorded as required by Florida statute unscheduled topics may be presented under the public comments section of the agenda okay we're not going to do the Pledge of Allegiance again because we already did it once let's not uh reactivate your phone let's keep them silent and roll call for the uh LPA Lynn fiser here Diana kbo here Marvin shavin here Chris Downing here Gary penano here Ross Sanchez here Richard Harris here okay approval meetings from our last of approval of the minutes from our meeting uh back on April 18th uh anybody read those have any comments I read them and I move to accept the minutes has threat okay second all right motion by Diana crel second by Marvin shavin uh all in favor I I hearing nobody in in opposition they're approved okay we'll move into uh something near and dear to all of our hearts our last uh go around with the ldr was back in 1995 with a few minor revisions according to the uh kimley horn staff so we're going to let them get started here today so good afternoon board members uh I want to introduce our Consultants from kimley horn um they have been engaged to update Our Land Development regulations we've been working together for many months now and uh wanted to come and give you a status update and tell you where we are and ask for input so I wanted to introduce Kelly cler with um kimley horn and Nicole gaso who will be presenting this afternoon thanks Katherine and if anybody can't hear me for any reason just let me know uh my voice and I think Nicole and I both have the same thing with allergies or something else so uh might have a tendency to crack a little bit but uh thanks Katherine uh for letting us come having come over today just going to give you a quick overview an update where we are in the process uh as Catherine and you all definitely know uh there are some challenges with your regulations um it was interesting sitting in listening to the last portion of the meeting and just hearing some of the challenges and nuances that you have I will be the first one to say you know I work all across the state and ac across the southeast you're not alone but it seems to be a little bit more focused here just because of the nuances of your code the fact that you you have so many small lots that pre-exist a lot of Standards uh you've got a lot of tight infrastructure or lack of infrastructure you're dealing with a lot I'll say a very limited amount of area but a lot of roadway networks and other things that start to create some of those challenges as you're moving forward and then you start to layer on top of that that you have a code that literally has you chasing about five to six different chapters to find a a common theme um you know when we first started talking with staff we started asking some very basic questions what works what doesn't um I think you know I've known Jennifer uh for 19 years and you know she I think she kind of gave me one of the best reactions which was kind of chuckled um I'm not trying to get her in trouble or anything but just the understanding of yeah there's there's a lot of things kind of going on uh we've been looking at it from I'll say the outside looking in at this point uh being able to see some of the and sitting now talking to staff and we've been working closely with staff and just you know there again asking a lot of questions because it's very simple and easy for a consultant team to come in here and go hey we know what you need we're going to fix it we're going to change the names we're going to grab a code that we think's pretty good and hopefully we catch all the things it changes it from County to city or town to city or something else and we're done but knowing that you've got the elevation components knowing that you've got different zoning uh throughout the the area knowing that you have the similar similarly situated zoned lots that have different setbacks depending on the street even including the side of the street and you start laying all that in and you start to go okay what's first so uh we're going to walk through a couple of things and as um Nicole's going to kind of give you some examples some of it's going to be things that we've already kind of started to identify and work on with staff other things are going to be what we consider to be design intent so those kind of thoughts and ideas moving forward that's going to be the basis for some of the updates uh as we're moving uh as Katherine said you know we're here today this is we're going to be talking what we call phase one uh and then we're going to at the at the very end of this we want to ask some some questions and more importantly we want to listen we want to listen from this board as far as in your opinion of what works what doesn't what are kind of the top three things if you could change in a code just you know thinking through it today without going into a lot of detail what are some of the challenges that you see as a group uh so with me today of course is Nicole uh Nicole's been here since the very beginning of this project Anna who is another Planner on our team could not be here but uh integral part to our team we're supplemented by a number of subject matter experts whether it's uh certified certified flood plane managers utility Engineers storm waterer Engineers Landscape Architects and urban designers the group that you don't see kind of behind the scenes that are also looking at this from from a real world application uh the group that we assembled has actually done a number significant amount of work in a number of codes or code sections and updates that's the reason we brought that team to the city uh yes some of us have private sector backgrounds so we also understand that portion of it and it's not just developing a code or you know working from that but several of us also have public sector backgrounds as well I you know prior of joining kimley horn I was actually Katherine's counterpart uh up in a small Community up in Kentucky and to kind of give you a little bit of of feel and flavor if you see a Toyota Camry that's on the road it was built in Georgetown and that's where I was director for eight plus years so dealing with a very old historic Community a lot of growth a lot of challenges a lot of issues and a code at that point that was made in actually about the 90s very early portion of the 90s um so that is one of the I'll say strong points that we have with us today so there's actually two different phases that we've identified as part of this and this is what we've been identifying talking with Katherine and her team so there's The Phase One update so it's kind of that first initial step into it and then the phase two so phase one is the kind of like the very first steps let's do the cleanup let's identify what really is kind of most the most problematic components and more importantly let's make sure that what is being proposed and adopted as part of your comprehensive plan is getting translated into your code Florida statute chapter 163 is very clear that you know you have to have a comprehensive plan and it's got to be founded on certain things Your Land Development regulations are a secondary set of of components for a community and those have to be based on and founded in the comprehensive plan so whenever you do your comp plan you really should be looking at your code at that point as well is that to say you shouldn't be doing it in between no uh because the state has you know consistently been updating certain standards or different types of things that affect us as a municipality as well as a comprehensive plan or as a code perspective we're not going to go into a lot of those but just knowing understanding that there have been a significant amount of changes even at the state level that affect what we're doing here from a code perspective and then also starting to ask some of those questions of Staff as far as the inconsistencies and some of the conflicts you know when you look at one portion of the code and it points you to something we'll say it says three feet in next section and like two elements over is talk about something completely different which one starts to take precedence at that point so our team's been kind of going through there and identifying and just having a good understanding of exactly what is and what's not uh so that we can move forward from an overall timeline I know some of this is predicated on some of the work that uh staff and this body is doing uh you know the Elevate and some of the other components uh that you know you all are working on very diligently uh have a direct impact on portions of what we're doing is that to say that our entire phase one is built off of that no it's a small portion so we are L literally running parallel paths with the components of the update itself so as we have been working on we've identified uh some some of the Baseline issues and working with staff uh collaboratively we actually meet with them every two weeks uh for about an hour plus we've identified a draft outline of how potentially to reorganize the code and then as we're starting to like what we're doing right now provide some potential updates and sections for staff to be able to react to and and and provide responses to using our best guest our best judgment and our subject matter working that through staff and starting to test some of that um we will be of course when you see this schedule there's going to be a community Workshop uh towards I'll say fall when we have folks coming back in for season uh so that you know we've got the biggest bang for the buck so to speak uh it's you know unfortunately here in Florida especially in in the the areas that we live in we lose a lot of folks for six months out of the year and we want to make sure that those folks that have the ability to be here or have a Ved interest uh have the opportunity to provide comments as well but more importantly we want to make sure that we're capturing enough time to be able to address comments and thoughts from this group as well and as we go through uh there there again we are talking about uh less than a year from now so I'm assuming about N9 months Max that uh the phase one ldrs would be updated uh in the public hearings uh at that point so yes we've been at this for a little bit codes are not something that you can do overnight but also we have a very clear path moving forward what are some of the goals of phase one uh so you're going to see us kind of talk about some of some some standard language here so we're talking about the reorganization simplification uh standardization clarifying so trying to make it easier not only for staff but for this body or for somebody that's coming in to understand exactly what the code says and why um just realized we got a slight formatting issue on there it's because the pdf version and the PowerPoint version are um something going on with the fonts do you have the PDF no we're fine we're we're fine I was going to make a bad a bad oh no I I was going to say I was going to make a very bad dad joke at this point and go uh as we're sitting here talking about reorganizing and simplifying and clarifying we have a typo that something's lining up on top of each other I promise it didn't look like that when I exported the slide but there again uh you know looking at portions of your code are you know okay I'm just ask a stupid question where were we all in 1995 JY wasn't born several of us were right here on the island but a lot of these folks were like right here on the island I mean I was on the island but I wasn't even 11 years old oh we're gonna figure out your age know I was probably that Park getting in trouble at TI exactly where I was oh goodness but just think how much has changed even in the last five years you started thinking last 30 years and there again you've had updates to your code but you have elements that go back 30 years um it kind you you start to think to yourself okay what what what else has changed what else is coming so some of this is reactionary some of this is trying to get ahead of the curve as we're moving forward with a lot of this so at the end of the day there again we're looking to try to create a a more user friendly document especially for staff's consideration the less confusion or interpretation that Catherine uh and her team have to make the better it's going to be for everybody uh because there again if it's clearly written and it's identified it has a series of Graphics that we can point to and say this is what we mean then that makes that their jobs so much easier and it's a lot easier process so where are we right now we've been working through a number of items including uh creating a summary table of contents which um Nicole's going to walk through here in just a little bit we're also consolidating processes and procedures right now those are scattered throughout the entirety of the code itself um most codes that you've seen or probably have seen have an entire section just on Administration which is process procedures and more importantly who reviews and approves what and at what stage so making sure that there is a very clear kind of sequencing and grouping of that you know decisions and appeals if somebody's coming to staff and they file an application and they receive an interpretation that they're not comfortable with where does it go from there so making sure that it's very clear that there is this kind of road map moving forward uh looking at we're actually finalizing components for uh the non-conforming situations uh non-conformities in the city of Treasure Island are plentiful um so we got to make sure that one we're being consistent with state law two we're being consistent with the law and three being able to address uh those non-conforming without creating an undue burden uh or at the same time creating a an open door policy for somebody to be able to continue to move forward uh without any repercussions and then more importantly and this is actually one of the more challenging components is to look at the zoning districts look at your bulk what we call your bulk standards your your setbacks your lot sizes your widths trying to create some level of uniformity uh it's like I was mentioning earlier and as you all are very familiar just because it is zoned a certain way doesn't mean it's going to be the same setback uh even along that street uh it's almost like it was a plat or a block and specific standards set up almost like a plan development uh at some point so there again that's also one of those items that starts to create some challenges especially for a staff's perspective so do you use like a some sort of model ldr to kind of look at where we are today and where it future state of where it should be you know looking at other municipalities or I just wonder because you're not just doing this in a vacuum no absolutely not i' be I'd be uh misleading you if I said oh we create this from scratch um the the good news is uh one I've been doing this for 32 years two we've got an incredible team that have been working on code so we see the you know bits and pieces of certain codes uh I'm not going to mention names but you know there's some within penel County that do a really good job some that don't do a good job there's some codes that we've written and developed for places in the city of Venice or on the City of Cape Canaveral or city of Sebastian and some of those that we can then bring to to this exercise and show share it with staff and go what do you think so it's a bit of a mix it's it's it's like making meatloaf yeah okay great question though and and please feel free to ask questions along the way that's that's what this Workshop is intended to be uh so we are also uh like I said in progress right now we're working on the landscaping and buffering standards we actually have a a working meeting uh with staff after this uh to kind of talk about some of those Provisions as well as how and where buffers are proposed uh preservation of existing habitats uh we're also working on portions of from the sign ordinance uh as your uh City attorney will tell you you know there's been a lot that has changed over the last couple of years in the way of signs uh if you if you well you've probably heard her mentioned the Reed case uh that is actually it's starting to get a little dated at this point Jen but it's still uh what was it 2015 I think y roughly right so but that was the one of the cases that signage and it went all the way to the US Supreme Court there's another one more recent that is the city of Austin and Outdoor Advertising so those are the kinds of things and making sure that you know your sign code is content neutral uh we deal with a lot of communities and we've written a lot of sign codes where they're like oh we don't want to have uh we don't want to group churches in or Civic organizations in with all this because they should be able to do their own thing that right there is the first red flag as soon as you start thinking of a specific group that becomes the content component and that's where you get challenged um you can talk about the type of sign the size the location illumination materials you can talk about all of those things as long as you don't go down that extra Rabbit Hole of that specific one or well we'll exempt the schools uh give you a true story right now we're working with the community outside of Memphis Tennessee we proposed a Content neutral sign code we presented that to staff and to their elected body elected body goes it's a little too restrictive for us we're okay well an individual across the street from City Hall did an inflatable sign made a derogatory political statement City sent code enforcement out there uh and they have just paid out over $32,000 because of an illegal sign code because it was addressed as uh a temporary sign but it was also political uh of Nature and they said well you can't have a sign because you're in this district and you identified and they specifically said you provided this type of sign and the courts ruled against the city very quickly my earlier call this morning was hey Kelly you remember that earlier version of the sign code that you had I said yes he goes we need it now so there again uh looking at all of that component as we're moving through so what are some of the next steps this is kind of a reiteration so we are looking of course at uh those specific chapters that deal with your Land Development regulations those items and in chapters 68 70 72 73 74 um one of my jokes on my internal team was we hit 80 we sell um but don't worry the a city south of here further south in Sarasota County had more chapters we had to play with city of Venice um yeah uh so there again we're we're you know our initial goal is as part of this first phase is to provide kind of the framework of how's the best way we think working with staff to reorganize what are the things that we recommend to bring up to speed what are some of those pitfalls and challenges that we're seeing uh at the same time kind of working through the modernization keeping in mind that there are portions of the code that won be will not be touched until phase two phase two follows the phase one adoption we had to get the Baseline uh in play and then we go back and start to add on to it at that point so I'm going to turn it over to Nicole at this point she's going to walk through some samples and examples uh the same thing I would definitely encourage you is as she's asking or you know as she's talking please feel free to ask questions along the way she's going to be providing some specific examples and some thoughts and idea is we want to get your reactions uh even if it's sto right there let's talk about that graphic or why did you order it this way within the table of contents okay Nicole good afternoon board members um so as Kelly said I'm going to be presenting some of the uh proposed work that we've completed thus far and then also showing just some examples of what our future work might look like um so one of the things one of the the major goals of this update is to reorganize the ldrs and condense and simplify so we're going to start that by having an introduction chapter most um zoning codes Land Development Codes start with an introduction um that tees everything up and enables the comprehensive plan so uh we're going to implement that we're moving some of your section such as concurrency management to its own chapter just so it's easier to find and locate the new procedures chapter is a bit of a uh what did you call it Kelly like making meatballs um maybe a little bit mlo maybe more of a Frankenstein of various sections of the code that speak to procedures and applications and administrative processes that are scattered throughout so we'd like to move those all into one chapter so it's nice and easy to find for everybody um the ones that you see in navy blue were not touching that's the current order there will be some reorganization within those uh but those chapters will remain as is and then of course I'm sure you all are familiar with the new storm water chapter that staff has been working on as part of the Elevate TI initiative so Kelly mentioned earlier that one of the major pieces that we've been looking at currently is moving the standards that are in your lot and bulk table into the individual zoning districts and the purpose behind that is so that both staff and Property Owners can quickly look up all of the standards that apply to a property just based on the zoning District that it's in rather than having to go to various sections of the code also we've found by looking at the lot and bulk table and moving it into the individual zoning districts there were some inconsistencies that have come up in terms of a you know an intensity or a building height that's mentioned in the lot and bulk table but there is you know potentially a conflicting standard within the zoning District so this will just allow uh well it will limit the chances of that happening in the future and also make it easier to update should the city decide to do so so this is an example of what these tables would look like within the zoning code in the individual zoning districts where if you were in PRM and you wanted to develop your site you could come you know click on your zoning district and most of the standards that you need to know about your property are right there I like that that looks like a a wonderful table and to have it by zoning District that's great um and as as we talked about uh we'll also be adding a decision and appeals Matrix into that new procedures chapter and it's quite timely with your discussion about which variances come in front of you all versus which come in front of City commission this is just a snapshot of what that larger Matrix will look like but essentially we've organized it into what are staff level administrative decisions what are planning and zoning board and LPA decisions and then what are City commission decisions uh that second column will have hot hyperlinks to those sections of the code that bring you back to the actual standards and regulations and then on the right hand side you'll see I know it looks potentially a little like um confusing with all of those you know letters and brackets but there will be a nice little key that explains it um DM would be this is who the decision maker is for this particular procedure R would be this is a reviewing body then it goes to the decision maker and then who also sees the appeals on it and the the brackets will indicate whether a public hearing is required or not so this will really make it simp Le especially for users of the code um who aren staff to quickly see hey I want to do I think what I want to do is going to require a future land use Amendment what exactly will that process be who will I have to go in front of is a public hearing required it will all be contained within this table and so here are some examples of Graphics that show our design intent I do just want to note that these were developed for other municipalities but as this project progresses we'll be working with you all and staff to determine which Graphics make the most sense to add value and enhance your ldrs and clarify standards so these are very commonly found throughout many of the code updates that we do and they really help to clarify both for staff and other users of the code exactly what is meant by what's sometimes very technical uh language and we'll also be adding in some flow charts to the greatest extent possible where it's appropriate again this is just to show our design intent this is for another city but they wanted to to take that you know very long section of code that explains the process for a land use plan Amendment and just condense it down into a simple step by step that I believe they even posted this on their City website so they took something that was within the code condensed it down and now it's available for everybody to look at really quickly you can see exactly how many steps would be involved if your project would involve a land use plan Amendment so now we'd like to turn it over to you all as Kelly said we really want to hear your big three what are the key issues that you want to see this code update address and then of course just anything else that you'd like to share with us at this time I'm going to be taking notes but please feel feel free to direct questions or um suggestions to either of us okay I have a big one that I have been harping on for the last 20 years you look around Treasure Island there's not a good example of architecture in this city there's not a couple of minor houses but anyway when I was doing work down in Lee County and CER County that area down there they had started getting into architectural requirements you're not going to build a sugar cube you're not not going to build a glass box you know and I've always said it I said no sugar cubes no glass boxes I want the Don CeSar and I mean it you know situation is I've talked to a lot of Architects I worked with a lot of Architects and I said show me some good examples of architecture in pelis county or in the State of Florida there's a few I mean you know the Salvador Dolly museum is terrific example the Don's myk goodness it survived but that's the main thing I would like to see I mean you look out among uh our examples of architecture and they're all the same you know it's 1950 style twostory flat roof uh boxes and uh provided that's the way to optimize the number of cubic feet you can get in those buildings I mean there's no doubt about that but what I was wondering is okay you make it look really good you put put some creativity in it and we'll come up with a possible bonus system to make it worth your while provided gingerbread cost money and uh you know a lot of developers are saying hey I mean let's face it we had a mutual client they didn't want to spend anything on gingerbread they wanted to do uh do what they did and they built boxes and I think it was partly them that started down in ker County and Lee County hey you're not going to build that crap anymore and uh I'd like to say see the same thing here on treaser island so that's my big one so how is that done in other municipalities to get to raise the architectural standard which is you know Beauties in the eye of the beholder so how how is that in the as a Beholder but the thing is you have to have some perits you have to have some architectural facades you got to have some features to it you got to come up with a definite uh architectural standard I mean uh for instance the Walmart that's built on 34th Street and about 1 Avenue North that has a little bit of architectural feature to it what they used to build back in the early 2000s and the uh 90s were boxes I mean they looked like and I'm not picking on the old uh Resort right across the street there but that's a prime example flat roof two stories nothing to it and uh so it's not it's not something that yeah you got to build Queen an style architecture you got to come up with something that looks different and good but you got to do something we're not going to say oh it's not well I was down in The Villages of North Palm Beach and they had a actual standard there of all architecture in this city will be Mediterranean style and uh that's a little bit further than I want to go right I guess that's that's taking it to the extreme so in a case like you have what we have in Treasure Island a mix in mostly 1950s architecture or later um how do you then try to cify some improvement in the level of architectural standard I at a loss as to how you do that there may must be methods I can show you a visual example yeah I've seen yeah so like this is a gas station in Franklin Tennessee right a farm but it's not just a flat you're familiar with Franklin Tennessee quite a bit I mean their their Chick-fil-A isn't the normal Chick-fil-A it's white brick with different Li that's what what Richard was saying is different little things so you can do overhang you can force overhangs and that's how you codify that Shell station looks like a farmhouse on the outside but it still has gas pumps underneath it whereas you know every gas station you look up and down you've got two poles flat roof so how do we do that how do we how do we actually accomplish that when we were working on I believe our comprehensive plan way back that was one of the elements that Pam brought out from one of the other cities that she was at that they had like five different designs of architecture then you could choose any of those five to go with but then since state law has changed we would only be able to do that in the downtown area make a dictation to that depending on how zoning what type of property but I thought too that we it doesn't pertain you can't do any architectural standards for single family homes through due to the state to Florida but as far as the commercial areas the hotel areas and I'm not uh you know it's a work in progress I mean I'm not saying here saying oh it's got to be Queen and style of architecture what I would like is and what I've always said is Let The Architects be creative let them do something and uh but the thing is you come in here with what this building looks like it's a glass box you know you got to have some artial features to make it look good how do you cify that chis yeah so how do we practically do this is it something the city commission has to go forward and pass you know some additional regulation in order for this to occur we have nothing on the books for it right now and of course that's why I jumped in here real quick so uh Kelly and Nicole can uh try to incorporate in what they're doing right now because like you said Chris it's hard to come up with but uh you know you just look down gold Boulevard here and by and large it's all the same I mean Crystal Palms is probably one of the better examples of architecture on the city but there's no uh there's no wonderful examples yep and then you take like the most recent not say most recent but like you take uh like Ocean Club like no offense to them but they're wanting to make his Maxim yeah it's a max box yeah it's it's a white way to make that look better can you show us example of what you've done in some other cities lines I don't have them with us today but so you're actually I love the idea so as a part of this Richard does this mean like with with the recommendations your firm is making to the city of Treasure Island to the um to the staff you can incorporate ideas like this to actually raise the level of the code itself and then it's procedurally again I'm come back to that who who votes on is it the SI at the end of the day is it the city commission that has to set to say yes we want to go forward with that because we're listening to this as this board do we have the authority here so you won't you're not the final decision maker so you will basically any changes to Land Development regulations will come through this board you'll consider them and determine whether or not you're going to recommend them to the city commission and then the city commission will evaluate it and determine whether or not they're going to adopt so they're the adopting Authority okay that that that thank you for clarifying that so we can as a board here influence this a great deal the right right okay well I'm in favor of what Richard is saying what everybody else is saying here too that we should I mean certainly want this ldr to be easier to understand more easier to implement but more importantly let's take it to another level to change the way TI is going to look in 50 years well you know like down south in uh Leon CER County I mean their their code wasn't as bad as Palm Beach where it was like this style only but it was no flat roofs you got to have some elevation to your Ro roof and uh it was some general comments but it basically encourag guys like Jack boak to come in and say hey this this is what I want to do and this looks good uh too many times and being in the development business for a long time said I want 150 rooms in this hotel and you get Max it out out to the setback lines up to the building height and you end up with you know the billmar and uh not that I'm picking on the billmar but it just happens to be standing there and uh you know it's cube with cell phone antennas hanging off of it which I wish we could get rid of those damn things too so all of the this discussion are you doing have you been instructed to add this type of thing to this so I believe this exercise Nicole C May for wrong if that's part of phase two we we actually that's part of phase two so what we're doing is here's the thing I will tell you you can other communities do it uh we did this with city of Venice uh they actually had something very similar that was oh it had to be Mediterranean or Northern Italian uh of course if you Google those two things you come up with I don't know how many hits we simplified it down and we said okay what are the main elements that we as a city want to have and it got into okay we came up with a laundry list it's like okay for all new development or Redevelopment thou shal provide at least five of the following eight features and it got into the windows the doors uh the on you know certain things in the in the pitched roofs and it couldn't just be one it had to and there were certain standards that went along with that uh because there at the same time you know a lot of these people have certain design development standards so one size does not fit all and that's also going to be one of my big preaching points to anybody is one size does not fit all I'm GNA come back to that especially on parking in just a moment one thing I will definitely say is don't push the envelope too far uh because what you will get is oh we trying to make us look like X we're not and don't do it during an election year so the timeline that you showed up here earlier we the phase one is not to the phase one is not but we can at least start thinking and setting the stage uh for that it just may not get adopted as part of this but being able to move forward you know we've got a little bit of time to start saying okay what what are the features what are the aspects that are most most important all right thanks I I want to throw out this one quick observation as well um my wife and I were driving back from from Cedar Key a couple of weeks ago uh our 30th Anniversary which is scary because my wife has put up with for that long but we hit you know coming down the Sun Coast we got to the point I peeled off to the right and went through Newport rich and all of that for a reason one I knew we were having this meeting today and two I wanted to get her thoughts on this she she's never driven this Corridor and we started driving and I started asking her where are we and she was having a tough time you know there's a couple communities some of your neighbors that do a little different and she's like oh I saw that sign it is this but it's like where does One Stop and where does the other start where's that identity that you have as Treasure Island and that's a question that we ask a lot of different communities dirt Lots I just want to throw out I think you have the coolest Chase Bank in the county you have that really cool art deco Chase Bank when you're coming of it's like so I just want to say it's the coolest Chase Bank in the county I want to give you all your props homeless people love asking for money on the building design itself though is quite unique so I I just want to point out there are some unique buildings that have a distinct architectural style from a different time um it was a surf shop back in the 80s and the 90s that was a surf shop yeah I figured it wasn't always a Chase history lesson was called Surf Side 6 and that building is probably built in 1950 there was one identical to it right across the street where the surf style is uh that had a long history but anyway it got torn down and it is what it is and uh that's what I've been railing about for a long time I know appreciate Richard opening us up um with that I mean I just want to make sure because I'm all for anything that helps people want to come here and invest money in Treasure is from a commercial standpoint so like I don't want to make it like you said five out of eight things like you're right you don't want to make you don't want to make it too difficult this place is extremely unique in so many different Fashions but we've got to step it up a little bit because right now we've got I think we're the only city in America I've actually researched this where McDonald's closed I don't think you can find another it's it's true though I mean most McDonald's are getting renovated ours gets demoed um we've got lots of lots of empty property that are dirt roads that are just sitting there and we we need people that want to come in and actually liven it up a little bit um so we can continue to pay for whatever the city wants to buy whether it's more Consultants whether it's a garbage truck I whatever it may be so I mean that's where my positioning is on trying to make this to where people want to come here and spend money exactly right you start uh reeling off the properties that need help in this town I mean our own Central business district the gator property's been sitting vacant for 20 years the club now is uh going through its challenges and I just want to reiterate on what uh you just said my comments aren't intended to stop development or make development it's to help development because like I said if we can and I don't know how to work out the minutia on this but let's just say the guy comes in and bu designs something that really looks sharp I mean you know you got a key West style architecture for our um Central Business uh district and maybe incorporate somehow that hey you're going to spend this extra money on Arch tal features here's your reward don't come in here with a glass box because you're not going to get any rewards for Designing I mean let's face it there's a couple examples of uh architecture that I'm happy to show to you down on Sunset Beach that if I could find the architecture I'd slap his face to this day are we being broadcast by the way yeah this is this is normal for this is normal don't worry he's not alive that that condo has been there since 1970 and I had to look at it every day the gentleman over there isn't a day goes by and uh I'm constantly hit by residents people in the island where does the FI dirt fill in what are we going to do with the the seaw walls and all that stuff where where does that fall into this whole plan that's storm water are you talking about with regard to elevate TI yeah where is that going to fill in so that's being handled separ an apart from this because it will actually potentially be enacted before um we're through the ldr renovations why are we having it separate um only because of the time frame and getting it accomplished and trying to move forward on um Elevate so here we're trying to organize and condense and we're pushing us outside that no no no element no they're so Elevate TI they're just changing the regul that have to deal with the elevation so that's all that's going to be changed within the code those will be provided to them and when they're going through the Land Development regulations and moving things about they may get shifted as well because there's you never stop developing your code merely because you're going through a rewrite uh because things come up um but with that they will be They will receive those they'll be able to incorporate them within what they're doing um and and move forward thank you Kelly please proceed sorry about all the uh discuss this is your all's portion of the discussion this is the stuff that I absolutely love okay very good I think what you know like Richard just sorry to hey because I'm with Richard and I think it's more of like if I like the idea of giving somebody a little bit of extra credit because then an AR an architect could say like look what I you know it could be a trophy piece for their portfolio so I just that's the thought process behind the allowing for a bonus point or whatever you want to call it well and that's what I was kind of saying about rather than worrying about a little rallies when we got this big block City Block in our downtown area if staff was going to exert and expend energy and money on chasing something I'd rather them put it in that big space than I would a little space and I mean gas stations are going to pump gasoline you don't know what all could come out of that if you gave a little incentive some way even if it's a a some type of a tax incentive I mean we've got to think about different things like that so all this is that kind of discussion as I understand it's all going to happen as part of a phase two after this portions of it are going to be phase one some of it's going to be phase two that's the reason Nicole is over here taking very good notes because after the day we're going to go back talk to our team and we're going to take that and put it into the two buckets and then come back to staff going okay here's what we heard compare notes this is moving into this let the LPA know that this is in what I'm going to call the parking lot which is phase two okay but so that everybody knows hey by the way and this is something we've we've encouraged of all communities as topics are coming up and it's like oh we need to make sure we're addressing that get that to staff we will put that in on the list and keep it fresh in front of everybody because here's one of the things I will tell you also is you know breaking this into two phases is not uncommon what you start to run into if you're not careful is you lose sight of one item because you're here versus here and you start to design certain things uh we came and started working with another community and this is the other thing I was going to say one size does not fit all parking you know most parking codes do a very poor job of regulating parking because they use the term regulation I'm not saying we'd throw parking out but 90% of the codes that you see out there right now are old and they also for a restaurant or a fast we'll say fast food restaurant including the one that just closed a few years back in the day they treat everybody exactly the same but is a McDonald's is a Chick-fil-A is a Starbuck is a Subway is a Panera are they all pretty much the same [Music] do they generate the same amount of traffic the same amount of trips but unfortunately what happens is a lot of our codes say all five of those are exactly the same and there's one here here's your code one of ouro how do you different differentiate I mean you know you look at McDonald's everybody's tired of McDonald's Chick-fil-A is kicking ass we're actually working on the community right now where we're actually getting in and starting to Define some of the qsr as the Quick Serve restaurants and the realization is that on-site parking isn't as critical as the stacking distances and the drive-throughs so making sure that you've got those elements of the code kind of laid out already uh the other thing that you start looking at is uh and this is this is another one I love to do when you go to Target or to Walmart and you do the online order you know you're not going into the store where do you go you go into that little marked parking space and you call the number and they bring it out to you technically and legally is that a parking space or a loading and unloading Zone just it's how you interpret it exactly how do you interpret it how do you want to interpret it but a lot of places you know some places we've come across have said oh that's a loading zone and there's different set of regulations for loading zones than there are for parking but loading zone is generally a lot bigger than your average parking space hell that's the trouble with the state of Florida we can't even figure out the uh standardized size of parking space in Plant City they were 20 by10 because everybody drives a pickup truck yes over down in Sarasota County they were 9 by 16 because they wanted Landscaping here in pelis County they're mostly 9 by1 19 so you know it's all over the place there again it's a it's a locational preference um a lot of places go 9 by 18 as a general standard um and yes I would I'm working I'm actually from East Tennessee so I understand you know Franklin and all of that very very well um but I had to have a subtle reminder working with a with a client and they go hey Kelly we know you're down in Florida and I said let me stop you I'm originally from Tennessee and they said we all drive trucks we need to make sure we've got this this and this so there again what is that what is that recommendation what's the preference from the community there again generally 9 by 18 pretty safe bet uh that you're going to capture everything at that point so I think what I've heard is you're going through this exercise to obviously help us improve the organization and convening this regulation but us as a planning board we could be parallel continuing to work on ideas that would help encourage better development here in downtown at some point those ideas could be incorporated into this whether it's phase one or phase two and so Richard how do we do that as a as a as as a board you know mechanically get that those kinds of IDE discs and probably make motions yeah and approve what we're doing here is is good I'm not trying to get shortcut that I'm I'm really just saying I'm a little conf I'm trying to understand how you know citizens or us as the board actually put proposals forward to say make it so that developers can do flexibility so again I don't know if it's phase one or phase two but what the idea here today is where he's asking us like what issues would we cover so like currently right now and I don't know the number maybe Richard you all know but like when it comes to like a hotel needs to have X amount of parking spots right so take like what we went through before with when it comes to the next hotel does it need as many parking spots as our code from I don't even know what year sets5 you you always hear Richard talk about you know he said Richard usually starts with the situation is it's usually how Richard starts a statement but like when it comes to Golf Boulevard coming in or getting cut you know it took out some parking spots but our code would basically so right this is the time where we need to let them know if for some flexibility to to say that you know if it's got x amount of rooms then then they can change it basically it doesn't need the the number of parking spots that we currently are writing that in itself would make it easier for a hotelier or whatever to come in or restaurant you know like if someone wants to build a restaurant to this is where we make those changes or at least we get to propose them propose them before they go to the yeah this is a lot like a pre-application meeting I mean Kelly and Nicole are here and they're presenting their first step of what they want to do they're going to take some ideas off of us today they'll come back on a month or two and uh you know we're going to be a re reactionary board and React to what they present one of like one of the have something to work with and Richard's more of an expert on it than I am but like let's take let's just take the pig Terrace for example right let's take that scenario paage Terrace exists there today it's that beautiful candy cane orange hotel that's right there it's been there I want to say for 50 probably 50 plus year very very long time oh never noticed it um owners are fromal people but if that thing gets if he wanted to Ren correct me from wrong Richard but if he wanted to renovate that he would lose his room his rooms right I know they pretty good and uh he's got oh you know I'll give you the numbers yeah he's got 36 rooms in there if if the big one comes and he wants to build it back by the current code he can only build back I think it's 21 rooms and his comment was I want to figure out some way to build back my 36 rooms because I don't want to go out of business because I can't make a living off of 21 rooms but right now let's just say it cut on fire and burn to the ground and and well you're going to get 21 rooms back he probably put it up for sale and call it a day but uh so thank you for sharing that scenario but like that scenario is something that let's just say he I hope it never burns down or gets hit by Hurricane whatever but if he wanted to renovate it and make it bigger better nicer whatever that he has the ability to hit the amount of rooms that he has today or maybe even more so and that's where we're going to be working with with Jennifer quite a bit is between I'll call it the vesting the and some of the grandfathering uses of course you know you've got Provisions in there with a certain percent of damage and then yeah you come under the current code but you can there again you can make modifications if that's the desire of the city I would I would put that as a bullet point that I would like to the city or for you all to review and that actually would be a phase one discussion okay so that good applicable to today's disc density issue that's not really some of he can't build out back because of the density it depends on the the property because there can be all sorts of things that could impede um so for instance you could have a property where if it burnt down you know it's built it's built low and so if it burns down they'd have to build it an elevated but in order to get that density that'd be over a certain height and the height is set forth in the code so there could be other restrictions that are are um dealing with this issue and up and until what was it last year um in our code there's a provision that says that if you're making any change to height or density within the code you have to go to referendum and it was only in the last year that the governor changed and or the legislature changed that and prohibited those kind of referendums from occurring but up and until that point that was also one of the issues so these could go condo too if they got knocked down could he go condo there um I'm assuming residentials allowed in that zoning district and so he Beach you know they got a district that they encourage people to build hotels by allowing the hotels to go higher than the condos the condos could only go five stories and the hotels were allowed to go 10 or whatever the number is because they wanted to maintain the hotels didn't St Pete Beach also they have a um I want to say like a bank of of hotel they have a temporary lodging unit pool as well yeah right and just to clarify if you meant condo like residential condo they would have lower density so they couldn't convert from a hotel to residential and maintain the same number of units but they could become a condo hotel you know that operates say like Ocean Club so I just want to clarify that Catherine along those a little bit on those lines I think I think through one of our other meetings part of our problems with let's take the Page Manor that they couldn't keep on going up because of height but then also because they didn't have space for enough parking spaces or are you would that would be another element that somebody could have is is is the amount of parking spaces so I would wonder in [Music] our in our ldrs if we had some more if we developed correctly where we were more of a destination and we could offer more within the city that we wouldn't have people necessarily driving here they fly in and they get some type of community transet get out here a limo and just stay on the island and you would have a lot within walking distance where you wouldn't have to have people or it businesses commercial businesses hotels or whatever on having as many parking spaces which would allow them to maybe do some other developmental things yes yes that's definitely something that we're looking at in in the ldrs is to update those parking standards to more modern standards that reflect that people Uber and use other methods of transportation because just like everything in our code the our parking standards are very old and definitely need to be evaluated okay so and I'm want to add on to something that you're talking about if I can uh because I've worked on a number of codes and we and we do this routinely especially in this situation uh if you have a valet service and you know you can usually there's usually a ratio of you know for every you know three valet spots it's the equivalent of one parking space or something some sort of ratio at that point because a valet service you're not needing all of the drive aisles and everything else uh the shared parking other provisions like an alternative parking St study allowance that says you know you've done this in other places come to us with a study to show exactly how are you going to do this I've worked on a code in a community uh in South Florida where they had dedicated uh employee shuttles and they've got very very creative with some of their transportation demand management setups to where there were Provisions built into their development order that said we're going to provide X Y and Z and and Lee of that we reduce our parking numbers down accordingly so there are Provisions for that you know if you look in downtown Okala uh the new or SE semi New Hampton in or I think it's Hampton right downtown there's zero parking why because they've got an agreement with the city parking garage across the street yeah um you know I just again I don't want to speak for everyone from my to my presence is more like just anything that can make thing make make it more desirable for us to have some type of growth or some typ of progress agreed um you know they get thinking and you know the wheels are spinning but like I don't know if this is where it applies but let's just talk about like retail on first floor right like I don't know today exactly how it works for us but I do know that forcing retailers on second floor doesn't work I think that Publix's has second floor retail I think it's been occupied now for I think two years I mean it's it's bad so as we're talking about like the core area and things like that I just want to make sure again going back to being more flexible or like what Richard said trying to be giving them extra points or whatever you know retail on first floor makes it more more sense to me so you have today in your downtown that residential and um temporary dwelling units can only locate on the second floor or above so it's kind of a roundabout way of requiring retail on the ground floor because essentially those other uses that are allowed in the district can't go on the ground floor so you know by deduction the one the other ones that are left retail bar restaurant go on the on the ground floor cuz you couldn't put residential um or temporary dwelling units on on the ground floor other than like a leing office or okay or such so you have that today um but there's certainly I would say this probably falls under phase two but there's other you know cities that we could look at that actually have pedestrian oriented uses required on the ground floor and a certain percentage of your you know ground floor building Frontage has to be can only be occupied by pedestrian oriented uses as you decide to Define them retail bars restaurants the things that people you know walk to okay so then my next kind of idea I get thrown out for this one but when it comes to the height restrictions that we have currently in Treasure Island I understand it has to go through a referendum to to for that to change not anymore but not anymore yeah used to be I Wasing my sense not anymore so and I I'm not saying that we need to go as big as we possibly can but in my opinion some of the the problems that we have whether I mean even downtown is because we are squeak East when it comes to what it cost to build something that would attract retailers residential mixed whatever you want to call it I mean in your line of work you've see a lot of different things I mean I would think that Treasure Island when it comes to the height I mean we're probably the lowest on on the coast right I mean do you we are we 60 feet is as the as your highest height of 60 feet um it's it's fairly low yeah especially for a constrained Island community okay where you really don't have much choice to spread out okay and I and I you know I'm not trying to sneak anything in or anything that but like I do think it is something that we need to address if we could try to potentially I mean again it goes in front of the commission for review but I do think it is something that needs to be somewhat reviewed because you know it I in my opinion again I just think get strangle holds us I'm not trying to go 300 stories up in the air I'm not I'm not saying that I don't you know I know people in madir Beach are talking about you know they're the new Clear Water you know and it Treasure Island's never going to be like that we got a lot of ground to make up when it comes to that type of growth but I just think that that's something that should be reviewed I'm probably a lone wolf on that but I'm going to put it out there because right now is the time that when you ask about what the key key issues are that's definitely one of them well and there's height and there's height you know because it depends on how you do that height as to how it visually looks as well having a box at Max height across like they've done in Madera Beach is terrible but you could have higher buildings here where there's there's changes in slope or in adjustment that that give a that's more aesthetically pleasing for lack of a better term yeah um so is it now up to since it's not referendum that's controlling this the that City commission can make changes to that correct at will well I mean it would go through the ordinance process so CH to the Land Development regulation no different than any other change to the Land Development regulation which means it would come before this board for them to either um recommend approval or not and then would proceed to the city commission City commission go through the process correct there and then the you're going to kick me out now or okay no yeah I will no but I think you know ultimately you're correct we're never going to get it off square one with what happens downtown here without having some change I'm not trying to drag it on or anything that but one of the things that I would like for you all is our next meeting when we are are talking about putting this in or putting all the things that we're talking about as as additional discussion if we could get some type of stats in regards to the West Coast of Florida you know there are I don't know how many municipalities that are actually lined up on the west coast I can count them in my head if you gave me like 20 minutes but if we could get what their height standard is and just to see where we are because if you've got two dozen that are let's just say double what we are I think it's something that we have to look at I I truly do it won't be double you're not too far off madira is six stories St Pete's highest height is like 86 feet I mean you're not other than their downtown you know Center which is much different than what you're talking about I want to be unique I mean I I don't want treasure on to be like anything else so I want to be unique and and I'm not sure whether this would fall into the bucket of phase one or phase two okay I I think it's probably a phase two discussion okay that's fine as long as it's just noted I mean I'm just looking at this power I've exhausted my big three I'm I'm going to marry up two topics we've heard increased height with building design going back to what you said you know right what's the tradeoff yeah and the parking let me bring up something uh we'll bring up some past history here when I was uh doing projects all over the state a lot of zoning designation is called PD you've run into it a 100 times I know uh City Treasure Island doesn't have one so came back to my hometown of Treasure Island said how come we don't have plan development ordinance the zoning the site plan is the zoning and we tried to uh get one back in 2016 and basically the citizenry came back and said we don't want it 70% to 30% in the referendum the misinformation that was spread was horrendous you know it was like oh we're going to have seven story buildings on Sunset Beach which of course was never going to happen but the B the two sections where development was trying to uh be encouraged was the gator property because the gator property has been sitting pretty much vacant for long time 20 25 years and then to give a little B bonus from 104th which I guess is right across the street down to 119th only on the west side of the Gul Boulevard and let's put this way one way or another it was turned into oh my God we're going to have seven story buildings on in other areas and I'm like no we're not the the idea was only in th those two areas and of course the comic came back of well if you're going to allow it there you're going to allow it other places but it's something since you're taking input I want to say we tried once it failed but uh and that's fine but uh it's something to look at because quite frankly I thought it was a wonderful tool because as a developer of shopping centers we come in before a governing board like a county commissioner or City Commissioner said this is it this is what we're building this is not there's no question marks around there this is the footprint this is it and 99% of the time it was like so that's what we want we want to know what you're going to do we don't like it when you come come in and say oh yeah I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to build cuz you say something to a governing body and they go what the hell with you you're out the door then and you know that happens because people want to know what's going on I mean let's put it this way we all wanted to know what was going to go on the uh McDonald's parking lot here in Treasure Island and I saw some pretty horrendous elevations but uh you know it's something to see if you can incorporate into your uh revised ldrs because I think it quite frankly every municipality that I worked on that had a plan development either whether it was residential plan developments or commercial plan developments or whatever it was it worked out extremely well and that was the reason why where you could come in and say this is what I'm building and and if we were to ask developers that's probably what they would like to have oh yeah as a well yeah I mean in a good way I mean just so that they could move because right to the reason thing nothing is been built on the gator property is because you can't do it effic you know effectively and it's not have you looked at some of our big bigger Parcels that are dirt Lots today and applied to like what our current code is and S like here's the issue like do you have some feedback for us like is there things that you already have that would help us that's a really good question we we have not looked at specific properties have we started looking at just the application of the code in general yes but specific properties no but that is our scope to test to test the ldrs eventually are today and what if we had one like empty place I wouldn't be so bothered by it but when we've got the ti Club in the front and we've got this down then John's you know our side of John's Pass and I just it's getting it's kind of wearing on I think a lot of us as residents kind of get a lot of questions from other residents in regards like what's going on yeah those are three big areas and not just one side just not the south side of downtown the north side of downtown as well um I mean we've got businesses that are not closing but just moving out so it's just something that not to try to give you guys more that's I mean that's the elephant that's yeah that is I'm talking about the three big areas of this town it's you know it's like I said it's Prime I mean it's you know this is this is the time where we can make some changes and hopefully get some growth and which would increase more Revenue dollars to this city and we can buy a new fir truck or buy police boat or whatever it may be and take care of our employees sorry Treasure Island is a community where the people the people that you hear they want all these mom and PAW things to stay and that obviously can't happen but if you could give us some information on communities that have been a similar situation and have done things to stimulate growth and not necessarily just height because we tried a few while back and that didn't work real well but you know even if we could offset it maybe a little bit more height but they did this and it stimulated growth it would be good comparisons absolutely you know Lyn it's interesting because you talk when you make say like oh PE you know people want to keep the mom and pop thing but if you actually talk to those Mom and Pops they actually want some changes they want some things better but they can't really make any change they're but when downtown is no I mean the residents that don't want anybody else to make money off of their property you know like they want why don't you donate it to the city as a park those are the people not not the people that are trying to make a living we have we have enough Parks you know who's done a great job is dund deedon you know they built that big parking lot in there and they forced all this business down there they're doing phenomenal and they done some great things there so hopefully you can talk bring these type of examples in and shown what small communities have done you saying Duneden dunden yep D you want to talk but that's not really on the beach though that's a different category yeah I know but they've done some great things that forc people in for Downtown Development and it's not highrises it's just very cute and quaint and they put a nice parking lot in there where they don't charge anything people can get in and out very easily and go you can you can bring up you can bring up Golfport golf port's not big at all and they're every Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday night they arriving then they got new businesses going in there so I'm just saying I it does help that they have free parking beautiful pre parking it's all redone and nice didn't know that we this happens to you all the time you get sidetracked by everything that we this isn't sidetracking us at all this is I real this is also part of it no this we're taking a lot of notes because you know just listening to you know you're talking about the height you were talking about the design standards my brain automatically went to Let's marry the two together and guess what let's let's look at that looking at those I'll call it your companion communities how do you stack up that's going to be a critical thing sorry go ahead no no no goad there's you know however when it was written from parking or whatever may be there's more electric bikes in Treasure Island than there ever was before there's more people I want to say walking but I mean there's more people that will walk from their houses to the beach I mean I I see that golf carts is another thing there's I don't I've never seen more golf carts on Treasure Island than in my entire life of living here and I always wonder why our parking lots don't have more electric bikes scooters and golf cart spaces because they're much smaller and you could get a lot more out of it I mean if you guys want to get Tesla to build some superchargers on this place because do you know do you know what the nearest I don't even drive a Tesla I hate them but do you know what the closest supercharger is for Teslas live o pelis Park oh at the WWA Gandy my gosh that's like a 40 minute drive on a good day with traffic again I'm not I know that we're off all shut up now but when it comes to things that we're thinking of and going into the future I don't know if it applies to our code or or whatever we have absolutely something to make that a little bit more easier when it comes to charging Vehicles that's something that we should be looking Mobility yeah and electrical vehicle charging infrastructure I mean that's definitely the the modernization of the code that's also you know part of the overall update and as Kelly said we'll let you know what falls into phase one and phase two although when they explode after a hurricane it's not a real good thing so well I guess we're at the point now I mean you got discussion and next steps we're giving you a lot of I hope a lot of input yes now just tell us what the next step is I mean obviously you go back to your office at kimley horn and uh do some work when are you coming back to see us again what is our what's our I know we said our next our our next event would be a steering committee meeting which we were considering doing a work session at City commission uh where we would you know have a a very similar presentation in format to what we did here today um and we were looking at doing that sometime in the next few months I believe are you has anything changed are you going to communicate our thoughts to the city commission yeah that you've picked up from us well I would hope communicate your thoughtss to us that they come back to us first because quite frankly I'll talk about our qualifications more than the city commissions I think we're this board is more qualified and I've had people on the city commission say that to me amen so maybe a joint hopefully you come back here first we uh take a look at it I don't mind having it I don't have any trouble I'm me not have a good working relationship with everybody on the city commission and um you know we're just here to help we're starting to actually said start to roll some things out so it's going to be very simple and easy for us to put together some baseline information for Katherine and the staff to be able to provide you with some regular updates um and kind of keep working from there great are we at a point today where we can one of the reasons uh we do want to talk about Elevate TI next because a lot going on with that and I know y'all aren't too involved in that but I I think it's a very important next step I don't know how much y'all know about that but it's a next step to be able to bring Phil into this city and right now we have a law that says you can't I would love to we've actually got a work session with staff on the landscape code very good so that's what's going to fall under landscape code no he's just have a meeting with yeah we've got a separate meeting with staff yes sorry yeah I'm trying to pin in where is this coming you know yeah but we are we have been every one of our bi-weekly meetings starts with an update on what's been going on with Elevate TI and um to your point maybe you all could put together your ideas in in some kind of memo to pass along to Katherine and then you know she'll pass them along to us that way we can continue to incorporate um you know all of your big three and and these issues that have come up up today as we move through this project but we look forward to coming back and talking to you all soon this was this was great here's the last little thing I'm going to leave you with don't be afraid to ask the tough questions period Don't Be Afraid thank you very much you thank you for your time it was a pleasure meeting you Richard did you have some questions or you wanted some answers or you wanted to speak or what would you like to do it looks like unofficial is the meeting over no no no going elev TI I think Captain when when you were doing the seaw wall work you got a lot of input from the contractors the the around TI when youall were talking about things to do with start that question again because I didn't hear the beginning when some of the changes were going coming about with El bringing Elevate TI and even before that regarding Seawall height changes you got input from a lot of the seawall contractors in town as I recall I'm wondering in this broader discussion are we getting input from developers on you know we we're speculating the reasons why you know the gator property isn't being developed or why it's difficult to get if you were to upgrade one of the smaller motels here because of the restrictions or even what's going on downtown but if is there been any type of way of finding the voice of the developers in this discussion of what's what are they up against and what are they seeing in other communities that could help out to bring more development what's what's standing in their way why they would even say well we're going to do it on TI because it's just too restrictive I I have we formally done that in any way you got you've got very high land costs and you're limiting limiting them because you only let them go up so high only give them so much density you got to increase the density and the height so that's talk about that but and maybe that's that's maybe that's what we would hear maybe we'd hear something else too is all I'm Poss suggesting it's hard for them to so it's hard for anybody to go and get plans or whatever then submit them to know that they're out of compliance for the current code you're paying a lot of money for that right for then for the city just to say no you no you can't do that because we don't have a PD and that's one of the or or if you wanted to do that you'd have to get this that and the other and you got to basically go through go through hoops or whatever it may be with the hopes that it still may not get yeah is our density not isn't it consider we're considering density or having dis density restrictions because of infrastructure though too because you got to remember when you the more units of anything in population you have on here you've got yes water and sewer and that's some really big things the electric probably isn't nearly as bad but the water and the sewer and the pump stations that we already have and you know that's you're talking about a magnitude of actually uh our water and sewer system is in great shape I will tell you where it is in bad shape I mean when it rains every sanitary sewer in St Petersburg leaks like a SI I've never seen anything like it we ran cameras when we were developing Baywalk Baywalk is a long time ago but and some of it has been fixed I hope but it was like a garden hose on the side of these 30inch pipes and constant flow I like they're not treating sanitary sewer in a big storm they're they're treating storm water and that's the reason the Albert wooded plant has its problems if you fix the uh holes in the pipe we're in great shape and that's one thing one very complimentary thing I've heard about Treasure Island Water Systems penelas County they're in pretty good shape the sewer system out here except for some of the laterals have been lined the uh uh sanitary were manholes have been lined it's actually in good shape except for the laterals when they go out to a building they're kind of hard to inspect and unfortunately we'll have one collapse every once in a while and hell will break loose but it has been happening do we have a time to uh I've been doing a lot of talking about Elevate TI and I'd like to bring the board and staff and everybody up to date on it if uh if I could I had a meeting with the uh Citizens Voice treaser Island uh talked to a lot of Commissioners every one of them and uh it's boiling down to a couple of issues and I think uh some of them I brought up last month it was only on the 27th of June but anyway everybody has this idea that this ordinance is trying to force people out of their houses it's not that uh you know we're going to require people to build their house up at 7.6 and we're not but the uh the word is goal if you're tearing down your house and you're rebuilding a house if you can build it up and we've hired a consultant came come up with the goal of a finished floor of your garage and a stilt House of 7.6 it's a goal lots of places you're not going to be able to get that high especially when the Street's real close to uh the front of your house house but let's put this way I always use myself as as an example the finished floor of my garage is 5.8 if I could have built it to 7.6 I would have but when I was talking to CV uh TI I said these are not mandates these are uh basically suggestions goals if you can uh build your seaw wall up to a top elevation of 5.0 do it I mean you'd be uh if you're rebuilding your seaw wall anyway why not build it to 5.0 I rebuilt my seaw wall 28 years ago and built it up raised it actually 15 in it's a dation 4 so then it was at 2.75 yeah in this day and age uh things would have gotten a little deep the city has put together a nice five-page handout it's a good reference and they're in the office right over here if you haven't seen it grab one it's worth it's worth a read but once I explain that to the CBT guys they seem pretty happy with it that we're not trying to mandate things I thought I mean I thought it was a mandate I mean I I thought the concept was if it if you can do it you need to do it you were making it sound like it's totally optional it is it's not optional it's a okay so what what the Mandate says is you got to look at every site on a case-by casee basis you may not be able to get there but if you can you do right so if you can get there yeah if you get there you're required to do it if you can that's not what you're saying you are not required to do it it just said that yeah and I disag it to be that is not what that document says it says goal that's the goal so you do the calculations and you come in for a permit and you show the city what you can do we have to send that out to our engineering consultant make sure that that's true that's the best you can do if that's the best you can do on your site that's what you do but if they come back and your guy says hey no you can get up here you go higher if you and Y this is not an optional thing I mean if we want to change that that's great but from what I've been hearing from you is it's not optional that was my understanding so once again I think the Mis understanding it is is a little bit from what I'm hearing is a little bit different they're saying every house is going to be 76 every seaw wall is going to be five and we know in the real world exact get that well that's what I just explained that if the road out in front of your house is at three and you're only got a 10-ft setback yeah you can't get to 76 you can only get to five and you're going to have a 20% driveway but the situation is I got this push back from people don't like being mandated that I got to go to 76 well and I'll say what I said to them if you don't you're incredibly shortsighted because why would you not if you could you know but they don't want the Mandate of yes you will do this but it is a mandate but the Mandate is it's a mandate if it can be done right so it's mandated that you go through the process that you try to get there yeah you got to go through the process the process you can get to the X that's where you got to go yes but that doesn't mean no it doesn't I don't think it means that you sorry I don't think it means the way I've read it it's mandated that you go through the process the process might say that you could go as high as another three feet but you optionally can only you could just go to one foot if you wanted to that's what I thought can you grab a couple of those we need to clarify that because that's not what I'm I've heard this whole time from you what I think that some of the people when they're when they're talking about about it they're thinking that they that the Mandate is that you have to do it now and so how am I going to elevate my slab house and that's not a true scenario if you have something and we have and and FEMA instilled and we have to rebuild that's when it becomes a mandatory up we try to get to the 7.6 but if you're lot because of uh the elevations and that type of thing in the size of it doesn't allow you to get to that then if we can get to 5 foot4 in then that's what we want you to build that because you can't get to seven if you can get to 12 for your garage floor which nobody here will be able to do but I mean if you're not allowed it to we would encourage that but of the Mandate at that point would have only been the 7.6 the now that's the way I understand the Mand is if you're building new is what we're talking about not we're not talking about take your existing house and raise it that's not what we're talking about we're just saying if you're gonna build your mandated to get to the highest level that you can consistent with the all the things that the way you want it done you can get there you need to get there you don't have an option I will get that five-page handout but that was the problem Marvin is these guys were like well we don't want to be mandated we don't want to be told what to do and my comment back to them is it's a goal and if you don't do it if you could do it you're very shortsighted I mean yeah for the water but are they thinking that you're telling them you've got to take your existing house and raise it okay well the thing is you don't have to do anything but there is I understand that but the situation is if you're getting flooded three times in the last three years you know definition of insanity is doing it all so do something right te down your house and bu new one or ra it I think some this is something that I that I would like to see when it comes to the whole Elevate TI thing is I would like to see a couple of properties that we're all aware of commercial maybe one or two residential that we can see to where someone actually shows us this house gets this house is where it's at today it gets bulldozed and then levati comes in and you show us exactly how it impacts that but like a visual not us just looking at words we have some we're got a couple of those almost ready something where we can see the houses next to them that are lower to say okay well they are going to have to you know Item B they're going to have to raise their fence because this come up or they have to put a retaining wall same thing my my biggest thing is like in the in the downtown area whatever but like let's take the area some of these lots are extremely small like if you look next to the car wash that's a perfect example of how Okay do they have to put in I would like that property alone to be including the example because do they have to meet a certain imper surface ratio which we talked about do they have to put in a drainage Pond do they have to have handicapped access okay so now if it's raised does the ramp have to go in different I mean you're you're you're you're basically funneling what could actually go there and I think signing up for something could potentially hurt that does that make sense where it's like I think what you're saying makes sense like to being able to see it or even even like right here like you take this property I'm not saying that it's going to happen but if they wanted to put a fire department right here get it how does the Lev TI impact the neighboring properties the roads things like that I think if we saw it I think it would just be a lot EAS you I think we've got some videos coming so very soon and think to show that just think not having the visual is concerning as well as and I wanted to ask answer Chris's question still I'm I want to get to the bottom of this too so my so have I interpreted this incorrectly that that the correct way to interpret it is that so the entity goes through the ti process yes and the recommendation that comes out of the ti process says we could adjust your maximum lower floor to 7 feet then by that it's codified or that's the right way to say it that you shall then design to that yes well that's pretty mandatory to meing evalu saying that sounds pretty mandatory to me if we're confused about this the Public's got to be confused so somehow you need to figure out how to clarify this so it's clear and I think the the the word that's a problem is goal and how you're using it and people are interpreting it differently than see I I'm getting the opposite feedback which is that people say oh every house has to be the same and that's what I'm trying to say it can't be go that your house may not be but I think we're confused if no I I take that to heart and we will add that to our if somebody facts memo if somebody if somebody tears down a house yes single family residence it's bulldozed yes when they submit their plans yes do they also have to submit the elevation certificates of the two houses next to them on each side so what they have to do today is to have an engineered drainage plan that says this drainages going X and Y and it's not and that it's not going to affect the neighboring property same thing will happen with they have to have an sign and sealed engineered plan and that becomes sort of the self-limiting thing here because interesting if you have two lower older houses and you got one newer one yeah and I get your yeah the city's consultant engineer would say that's the problem they can't go to the max because of these two ones next to it right because of that I'm tell you that's the Practical part many the thing is then we're also going to eventually be looking have SES along each property line so you're drain onto your other one you're going to have to have a Swale so it'll drain to the street or where it normally drains like that is so hard to so hard but I also feel like there's liability behind that like what happens if the city signs off on it be like oh your drainage is fine one heavy rainstorm comes in and I'm the house that I got drainage going and I got water into my house and I'm like well the city the water obviously came because I mean like I feel like that could create a lot of we we see that today I mean to be honest we see plans come in they've got swes in them they've got drainage pipes in them and we go out there and the sale's not there and the pipe's not working so it's like okay and at time of Co we make sure that that whole thing is working a lot of people come back the minute we leave fill in the swales and make it not work and then it becomes a codes problem and I can't say that that doesn't happen but it's in it has been properly engineered at the time of Permitting yeah you know and with this it's just going to be that much more important because you're going to have swes and you're going to have retaining walls and it just depends how much you know how high your house elevation is in comparison and how high how big your lot is has so much to do with this so what what is the expectation of the retaining the retaining walls are much more expensive than the white PVC fence that what right 75% of the island has maybe so has it been looked at at what the added cost to a typical lot owner is going to be to build a a new home going through the ti Elevate process I mean it's got to be some range of additional cost you're going they're going through some additional engineering on this correct the thing is Chris the only expense is the retaining walls down each side dirt is cheap and believe me when I say that if you can raise your house and you don't shame on you because uh you know situation is and and I'm bringing this up because it's a it's m maybe it was a naive question but I think it's a question that other citizens are going to ask of whether they should agree to you know sign on to TI Elevate TI or not is a lot of people would think hey this is going to cost enough another $100,000 to do this house and and and it may be only 10 one of the people at cbti is getting ready to build a house and he's saying you know by the time I adjust my dock adjust my seaw wall put retaining walls down each side haul in a bunch of dirt yeah I'm looking at 200 Grand he used the number 200 Grand okay so but he lives in a very nice lot it's great lot because I've seen it and he's one of the few people on the Island that can get to 7.6 and uh you know my comment to him was okay you're going to build a $2 million house or a million doll house whatever like the one going up next door to me it's a $2 million house yeah I I don't think you can build a million dollar house anymore he did not raise his finish floor of his garage because he couldn't but if he could have he would have and would have added say another 100 Grand yeah I would have done done it in a second yeah and he would have done it in a second well just to be clear I'm not I'm not opposed to allowing folks to raise the their ground floor level and as a part of this TI what I'm I am questioning here a little bit is this whole mandatory part I understand it's going to be mandatory to go through the process I didn't know that it was mandatory that they would you would have to go to the max that the study shows that seems a little bit draconian well that's the problem that I kept running into Chris I'm just I'm just regurgitating what people were telling me I don't want to be mandated I don't want to be told what I have to do is there an appeals process Catherine like if you guys come back on a new build if if someone comes in and you guys send it to your engineer and they say well they can go up a little bit further can the applicant appeal it and be like no no it's all of staff's decisions are appealable and they come to this port to so we're going to get these things coming to us oh I only wanted to go two feet I want a variance their City's telling me I had to go if you don't make it on what basis do we if you don't make it mandatory you might as well not even do it because you've got to get everybody doing it if you want to raise the I mean the goal is in the year whatever 20 whatever but that's why you let it be flexible because over time it will naturally get there and that's the thing the raising of the roads will be the one of the last things that happen I can't see these roads on this city being raised until the end of the project our Target date is 2100 nobody's going to make it that long I get it I just I just feel like if you sorry I that if the ti Elevate TI study says I should go s feet I still think as a homeowner if I want to stay at one or go to two or three let the market decide that over a hundred years these homes are going to get elevated but don't put a mandatory thing have to raise my house and create swells on each side I just think that's going too far honestly nobody's going to do it and they won't have so then it ends up being an empty lot right let me tell you or you stay with your old un but if you don't have a house what if you the hurricane comes I'm I could be in that position where I have to elevate a whole different situation and that's the point I wanted to get into next let me change subjects on real quick anyway that's 7.6 and the 5.0 was one thing that cvti and a lot of other folks I talked to were very concerned with that being a mandate the other one was if you have a house and it's just no house and it's worth 100 Grand you want to do $100,000 worth of work to it well the FEMA 50% rule exist yep it's there so all you can do legally is $50,000 worth of work you say well and I'm going to use Bob minning as an example because we all know Bob and he's you know in his 80s and this is what he did he goes you know I didn't want to tear down my house but I wanted to renovate my house so what I did was I went and got and just say his house was worth 100 Grand I went and got a building permit for 50 Grand worth of work I went and did 50 Grand worth of work I closed that pyamid out and then I came back in and got another second uh building permit for something totally different it wasn't finishing the first job it was like the first job he put on a new roof and put on some new windows the second permit he came in redid his kitchen but he had backtack permits and there was no time increment between them what we were talking about and this board was initially going to a Time increment between permits of 10 years we were all pretty to much saying nah that's too long we're backing off of that down to five years and then I started talking with various people cvti and a few others and and it dawned on me how many people have actually gone in and gotten a backtack permit to do work on substandards houses well there's three of them three people that I know of three people out of the whole island will it happen once in a while while but Steve yo Bob Manning and Ross Sanchez have done it and that's it and uh my question did did you I've seen a lot of people in our neighborhood do it God the only way to get it done I saw one that took it to the to the ground and left two corners and rebuil that that's the thing but the thing is it's not being done a hell hell of a lot the question is is that something that we want to get involved in saying oh we're going to force you out of you know if you want to renovate your existing house like Chris did for instance if we had a Time increment of five years between permits would you have done it and then waited five years and done it again and the answer is let me clarify that Richard it's not five years between permits it's five years of all your permits that don't equal half of the value of your structure well that's what I'm saying because but it's not that's only if you pull the permit of 50% exactly but most people in this day and age it's so expensive I mean you can spend 50 Grand in a matter of minutes but uh I'm just using that as an example I know what you're saying Catherine I just don't want that the idea out there is one permit in five years no it's it's a half of the value at the time you pull the permit so if you pull a permit you add on to your house your value increases that's right permits your 50% is cumulative of your current value not the value before yeah we had to re reassess and get another well you're you're another one Chris but anyway people are objecting to that idea of having a fiveyear Time increment between permits sounds like this rolling five years for the value well and once again if you're getting a permit to do work major work on your house it's usually about 50% of your house especially on Sunset Beach where these little Shacks are worth 30 grand so why do we care yeah exactly that's what I'm saying we I thought about it why do I care if you read the if you go into the County website and you pull your female letter it tells you what you can build and it says either directly in the letter or the link that it sends on major damage and it substantial improvements to qualify the community to qualify for that FEMA you cannot continue multiple permits well that was the point I wanted to make and I think you just said it for me if we have a big storm or a major damage to your house let's say your house just catches on fire and you want to uh you cannot do multiple permits to get your house back you have to either raise it or build a new house if it's damaged more than 50% your house is damaged 75% now you can't come in and do what Ross and Chris did and get multiple perit you got to do something you know so that that is off the table I mean if we get the big one and we're all damaged out here we're going to have a lot of raised up houses I you're right I remember those those were the two issues I continued to run into well I in the previous meeting where we were talking about five or 10 I was the one that was trying to pitch zero so I mean I'm already for that because I lived through it um but I I mean yeah we could put it back on the table I thought zero zero is where it needed to be um it was at the same conversations when we were going from 50% to 49% it was at that same meeting where we had landed in regards to what our revision is so I don't know what the process is but you tell Katherine that we want to go back and revisit that to zero I I don't know how it works but like yeah I mean we haven't done right now it is zero we haven't done any we have it in a red line to be going to five yeah I think what Richard's topic is in this LPA meeting is to say can we go back and revisit that to zero I don't know how the process well it also sounds like we don't want to make it mandatory I mean it sounds like we're gutting the whole thing right so so the process for it is is that the ordinances will come before you for recommendation okay and if you you'll either recommend those or um possibly say that you're recommending an alteration to those okay that would be the process to do it yeah that's the process what the board here feels today and it's changed so so staff is going to have a recommendation on the ordinance and that's what they're going to present to the board and the board May recommend that or the board may not recommend that and have other um items that they feel like should be considered okay how does everybody feel about the mandatory part of this I'm you talk mandatory on Elevate TI yeah you mean mandatory on elevations the first part yeah because it sounds to me like everybody's against it I'm against it and and I'm with which is should be on the on the FEMA thing with the per time when somebody comes in for a permit obviously the staff is going to say okay your road out in front of your house is three your driveway is 10 feet at a 20% slope you can get up to five that's all you can do that's your option and mandatory not what cther been telling us for the last the thing is what it is Chris it's a recommendation we recommend you do this tell that's not what she's been saying that's what I'm trying to say is the citizenry of Treasure Island wants it to be a recommendation if if you're shortsighted and say nope I like having my house flood yeah go for it right it's a free country you know the the point was statement was made if we don't if we don't have like uh time increments uh between permits for instance we're going to miss the opportunity to uh raise some of these houses well the thing I began to realize was hell none of us are going to be around anyway Bob menning situation and I'm going to pick on Bob because he said I could uh I said Bob you're a great guy you're 81 years old in 20 years you know I hope you live another 30 years but and laughed but uh he says you know the situation will correct itself the one thing that everybody's kind of uh losing sight of this is none of this is immediate the completion date is 2100 maybe that's a big maybe are we in any of us going to see it no so rather than have a situation I don't know how many of y'all showed up for that um City commission meeting where the proposal was to take7 Avenue to one lane each Direction I was there it was ugly I mean we had one idiot in there who was uh dropping NE bombs in there and being stupid and uh and he got thrown out good and uh but everybody in there was saying no leave a 107th Alan well the indication I was getting just meeting with various people along the way is they were going to try to do it again and after I explained that it was more of a goal than a mandate and that the back to back to back permit I would more support the idea of going to zero they were all happy or appeared to be happy and then we'll get into Treasure Bay which is another uh uh topic all together C do we have an option of saying that we don't want it to be mandatory so the program is put together to work together and so without hitting the highest possible number that you can hit within those goals um and without cumulative substantial Improvement it it's going to be just like it is today where the houses are not getting elevated and without the houses being elevated the city will not be able to raise the roads and if the city can't raise the roads we've got sunny day flooding that's not proposed to get any better and it's going to come to the point where people can't get to their house but I would you know you've got to kind of think of this big picture long range as to what the real goal is and the real goal is to be able to elevate the roads to be able to elevate the roads you got to elevate the structures next to them I I agree with you about that and I I respect what you're saying in terms of that is the goal and that at least and your opinion is in order to get that done that you have to make it mandatory I would just disagree that you can put a program in place that allows people to do something that encourages them to do something and then the market will naturally take it that direction without making it mandatory so you know whether one property goes up one foot or two foot or three foot doesn't ma in the long run they will all go up because the the market will push it that way insurance and insurance there's going to be other factors that that that's a good one to bring in here um but I do I don't I don't think you have to take it to mandatory to actually meet your goal especially given the time frames we're talking about you can you what you want to do is set it up so that people have the ability to bring it fill in and have the ability to go up if the engineering studies allow them to to raise it but not to make it mandatory I that's the part we we got we have a a disagreement and a disconnect here I think and you know what I would wonder about Ross's idea about giving us a a scraped off lot and you go ahead and you go up as high as you possibly can and then you have your two existing houses that are at a lower elevation why don't we pick a couple of lots throughout the city small low lots and what would the impact be and let us see visuals and try to get a um I hate to say a cost Factor on it because you could put somebody I'm in a little house that was built in 1950s I'm on a not on a non I'm on a substandard lot is what it's called I believe and if I have to spend one to $200,000 because I get wiped out by a hurricane I will not be able to build my house and elevate it the way it has to be I will be moving someplace else you're going to have to do it anyway because your house is more than 50% damaged I I agree so it doesn't matter yeah but it does the the the only thing is Richard the it's not just about raising it we're talking about the ex added cost of raising the lower level which you're saying is not is nomal and so I'm agreeing with all of that and it may be we we still ought to be cognizant that there is an added cost to lower raising the lower level but we as a city shouldn't be mandating it we should be allowing it exactly but the biggest thing is right now and the biggest thing that I want to see this Elevate ti do is get rid of that law that says you can't haul dirt in we get wiped out in her season this year yeah that's the positive part of that that's a big step it is yeah and you know we all get wiped out this year we're all done but we want to we're glutton for punishment and we want to move back out here so I want to rebuild my house well I got to build at the same elevation because I can't legally raises no that and that is an important part of this and I want to see TI Elevate TI go through for that purpose yeah we I just don't want this last part of this but Melvin's bringing up about being mandatory being designed right now for Elevate TI that are about to yes we have we're working with um I think two developers right now and one for sure that's got plans cooking um three or four that are talking about it want to wait and make sure it's passed before they is there anybody that could give us a cost because really we ought to be able to give people hey this is how much approxim ballpark just the add-on for that part because if it's a nominal it's no big deal but if it's a lot of money nobody's going to do it right well uh Marv it depends on the situation but I do have an example in the guy who owns the property gave me a cost okay trying to find and that was just for elevating the lower level right no sea W building a whole new house right he's going to build a whole new house but he's talking about by the time he raises his finish floor of his garage to 7.6 which is a lot of dirt he's going to be higher than the Neighbors on each side so he's going to have to build a retaining wall to keep his drainage from going over on them another two feet another two feet of Plumbing water it all adds up you he's going to raise his seaw wall and he's going to fix his dock he doesn't want to have a step down to his dock he could he could that's that's kind of don't forget the labor cost of the people going higher up in the air to put the roof on okay so what's right any 200 Grand just tell not nominal even even somebody building a multi-million dollar house that is not Grand yeah that is notal nobody's going to be nobody's going to do it keep in mind let the market let the market decide he's going to build a $2 million house keep in mind this is a extremely large lot with an extremely large even if it's 100 even that it's not nominal even if it's 100,000 right but the thing is so again let him make that decision it is nominal he built a $2 million house he' to Dro that 100 Grand to raise his house in a second well right so let him do it I'm not and I'm all for allowing him to do it I just don't want to tell him he has to do it there you go that's that was the whole argument I was trying to make Chris so we're I think we're in violent agreement people people do not like to be mandated and yet will there be opportunities to raise houses Miss because of the back to back to back well Katherine and I have had this discussion before if you throw a lot of money on a substandard house well you're being shortsighted but on the other hand I'll use the Bob minning example he goes I'm 80 I'm out of here in 20 years uh physically so I don't want to tear down my house and build a new one and I don't want to jack it up either I just want to spend $100,000 on my house to make it nice for my for the Twilight of my life that is his prerogative and that exactly I had to agree with that's what I'm that's it I do too let him do it I mean if you don't want to make soon as he passes on some either his kids are going to end up with the house or he's going to sell it and whoever buys that house going to do something with it but the ultimate goal the ultimate and this is what I had a hard time wrapping my head around with it's the year 21100 it's 75 years away that everything in this program is supposed to be uh finished will it get there raising houses is easy raising roads is not yeah to raise every road on this island by a couple feet is millions and millions and millions of dollars yeah happen and the other thing it but we're not going to like go out and just start raising roads like roads have to be improved and fixed all the time they're in a work program they're scheduled for improvement yes raising them takes dirt you're correct but it's not like it's a wholesale giant operation to do all the roads in one you know Fell Swoop but anyway it's going to be Street by Street yeah you know as they're in the work program but are we going to even think about doing that in increments let's say if you have just a particular Street and there's three of us from IA Palms we'll we'll pick on Chris's Street Fourth Street let's say all of them could handle that road going another foot higher today yes and it wouldn't cause any problems to their houses and I'm this is just all make believe that would you be would the city in would they go ahead and invest and do that street and raise it by one foot because it wouldn't have an impact on any of the houses that are there I mean I'm hesitant to answer those kind of Public Works questions because I don't know but I do know that there you know there's an analysis of what streets could be raised now what streets could be raised later how you know how much they could be raised because maybe they only can raise the street 6 in right at this point but 25 years from now when they've got to fix the street again maybe they can get another six or you know whatever but that's what I'm trying to get at can we do it in increments oh yeah I mean these are not going to just out of the ground you know I mean so like when you go to repave one of them are we going to be able to go on the base that's already there and the asphalt that's already there you put down three two three more inches and that's raised the road three inches look at page four of the handout I recommend everybody take that hand out at home and read it it says a lot well that's talking about raising roads into uh in two steps I don't think that'll happen because I think uh it's too expensive well was incredibly expensive wasn't that part of the the big part of the watershed management was that we would do that in increments with 70y Year yes goal so that isn't anything new that we've talked about right that's that's the reason behind Elevate TI yeah that was the introduction to elevate TI was the watershed management yes the biggest thing is I just didn't want to repeat of what happened on 107th Avenue because I heard a lot of people saying we're going to show up at s uh during front the city commission raise hell and the city commission will fold just like they did on 107th and I said guys you need to think about this elevated TI is a good thing it's a smart thing somebody is uh thinking ahead because I'll pick on St Pete Beach they're talking about pump stations pump Stations don't work when you need them so dirt is M pretty much maintenance free I think this is something we need to work out the Kinks and get to everybody behind because uh I want to be a want to be able whoever bu buys Diana kill's house to be able to say hey I want to raise this thing up to whatever I can raise it to and do so but right now they can't and if uh City commission meeting turns up you know 100 people turn up and raising hell the way they did with 107th City Commissioner will fold and uh folding on 107th I agreed with voting on this I do not you know this needs to happen and uh Chris you know you and I were like I like your terminology in violent agreement people don't like to be told what to do and once again though going up to the you know this you don't raise your house it's still in process hasn't gone to the commission yet is it been is is the final draft done to it's going to go to the commission no we're still working on the ordinances and bringing this will come back to the LPA um before it goes to the commission oh yes yes okay great so we're not done yet okay one thing I have to say though that I don't agree with everything in Elevate TI and I've always been concerned on the mandated part but I do think the city is making a great effort on trying to give the community every opportunity to attend meetings read the material it's not like 107 that a few people got together and talked about it you're trying to push that message out there we're going to be much more active on social media going out in the next two weeks we've in response to Richard's comment at the last LPA we put together some onepage handouts because a lot of people didn't want to read this yes five-page handout so we put some onepage why you know why Elevate TI what does cumulative substantial Improvement mean to you so those you'll see those coming out in the next few days well it's on the city's Weekly Newsletter too about yes the yeah we're trying to get the word out there and make sure people right now been out there a lot and it's good but right now the word is it's mandatory right I mean no I think we're getting that changed well I think we're I think we will change it probably but right now the information she's been sending out it's been mandatory you're right and it is it is I don't want smart enough to have a million dollars spent on the house and the city you have a pre-application meeting with the city and they say oh you can build the finished floor of your garage up at 7.3 and they gow I don't want to but why you know well with this I can't you guys can argue about it I'm good yeah all right Ross anyway we're about done I think I've hit my main points I just uh I'm trying to push this thing in the right direction as you well know yes are we ad joury are we Jed let's see next LPA meeting that's on here so August 15th so we were going to propose August 15th after the pnz M okay for me so one or two any other comments that people want to got to stay at 2 o'cl this one o' got to be at two a lot of people want to get out of here so two Mee are we 2 o'clock okay or one o' motion to adjourn wait you got to make a motion when the meeting's going to be o' 2 o' no I've drove okay we only have one pnz okay thank you I'm not against it thank you