I just walked in all the meeting to order cler please read the meeting notice yes adequate notice of this regular meeting was provided to the public in the Press on January 17 2024 and was posted at the municipal building in accordance with the open public meetings act njsa 104-7 thank thank you the audience please stand coun stand and join pledge to the flag I pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice council member buer here council member D benedetto pres member Higgins here council member Sparta presid presid here uh owing to illness on both of the presenters the presentation that have been scheduled on the scenic byway will be postponed to another date um mayor may we have your comments apologize give you once and I I did well thank you council president uh the rest of the council um one of the things uh one of the many things um uh that I want to just bring up today was um this past Monday was Memorial day uh I'd like to share just some of the words I've spoken at the VFW uh on Memorial Day so I think it's very important that this kind of information gets out um about our future of what Memorial Day means um so Memorial Day was a holiday and to some that marks the first day of summer to Summit means an extended weekend but too many families Across America including our own gold St mom Natalie uh Council vice president Natalie berer on the loss of her son has a much different meaning to her to her and her family Memorial days intended uh was intended for Americans to spend time remembering our military members that gave their lives serving our country these men and women made the ultimate sacrifice some of these men women were killed in combat or training some even have taking their own lives that taking their own lives due to Trauma from combat that they couldn't escape just because a war may be over for some the battle continues on for those men and women who are equally deserving of our honor these men and women never got to to see their children grow up or never became a father mother husband wife or grandparent they gave up everything for our country we ow the a debt that we can never repay all we can do is remember them honor them and to make sure we always be their voice because they no longer have a voice so today and every day forward we must make it our duty to remind the next Generations what Memorial Day truly means we must be their voice so long as we shall live may God bless our past present and until we have peace on Earth our future Fallen service men and women at this time I would ask for everyone to rise a moment of silence to honor our fallen heroes thank you council president if removing history was as easy uh was easy I'm sure we would forget days like dday Vietnam War 911 but but we can't nor should we we learned from our history whether it was good or bad when I took office I said I would fix the problems of the past that may haunt us today whether it was through whether it was to fix a spiteful ordinance or just work on changing how we do business in Vernon so today I have asked Council to restore the Vernon historical preservation commission this commission was uh decommissioned by the by the council president at the time back in 2021 um and this was obviously some kind of spiteful tactic and made public and it was also made public about it and we uh that they had an issue with the chairwoman so to silence people they decommissioned the the commission uh together this action put Vernon's history in Jeopardy and must be restored uh immediately uh I want to be clear uh this is about Vernon's history and that's all I care about and so several months ago I have asked Miss paladini to join the commission because like her like her or not she is one person who knows Veron Township history better than most but she has since declined we are several months into into the new year but but we must restore the commission and ask anyone who would like to join please do so on our website or contact my office we are also accepting uh applications for the Arts advisory committee before I go to the Arts advisory committee um it just there was some language in that was missing in the historical preservation um uh ordinance so we we're actually tabling it I ask for you guys to table it for now we could put it on for the next uh for the next council meeting um but until we get that language put back in we'll if if you guys don't mind so um so anyway back to the Arts advisory committee which I believe we have already received one or two applications just in case you didn't know the Arts advisory uh addresses ways to provide Visual and Performing cultural activities for Vernon the committee will strive to to cre strengthen Partnerships uh among schools arts and Community organizations to enhance Arts education and arts participation for all Vern citizens this committee consists of seven to nine members appointed by the mayor with each member serving a one ter a one-year term I want to be clear because I I know there's been some people out there who have been spewing and when I mean spewing it means it's a lie it's basically it um when you volunteer for Vernon you're not volunteering for the mayor you're volunteering because you love your community and you want to serve your community so I I want that to be very clear um you know this kind of this kind of garbage that gets sped out is uh you know it's it doesn't help our community and I you know it's unfortunate that um people want they want to see me fail but you know seeing me fail you know if I fail Vernon fails and and I don't think uh if you love you know your town that much uh you know I I would ask that we do things uh the proper way and not to spew out things like that that's that really is not true and and serves no purpose anyway back to that um I have been pushing um a lot to try to get into the mindset to get people into the mindset that we need to start acting like a closed community and it has been widely accepted and refreshing to see uh this for a change we all seen the the we all seen this between the Board of Ed and my Administration which is why when asked if there was any grants bonding options available for one of our firehouses I've asked the now to look into it and see what we could do for our Local Heroes and after talking with our bound bound Bond counselors they have advised us that we can offer this assistant remember this is this is a bond loan that gets paid back to Vernon at a 5% interest rate and just as an FYI I didn't even want to I didn't even want the 5% interest back but it is required by law so we must charge the 5% interest uh which is basically the same as if we left it in the bank we would collect the 5% this is the result of a support of council and a staff willing to go above and beyond to help this this has been my mission and we will continue to help and build relationships in our community I also want to thank the citizens of iron especially the High Lakes Community I loved hearing and seeing the overwhelming support towards the fire department because it's it's things like that that make our community proud and especially our volunteers um and I know these these comments that that are out there um uh they see it and uh and I Know It Mak out um onto business today the council has asked to pass the 2024 budget or um I guess the amended portion of it uh I want to remind people um that you know we we were Tau of this budget and with a 0% increase uh for the third year in a row which was not recommended by our CFO and orders um please understand that it is the cfo's job to manage you know the town's finances and um and it's my obligation to make sure that the services are provided to our community and to the people that need them um and I uh so when we first produced that budget I believe even um Mr Higgins even said it was a good budget and I think the uh after that I think we we removed about 1.8 million from the uh from the cap plan so we've done even some initial uh cutbacks and cleaned up a lot a lot of stuff that we didn't need or maybe we didn't need it this year maybe next year or something won't go back next year it's it's a lot it was a lot of work and uh you know I'm proud to see you know that the staff really uh pulled it together and and we got this done uh one of the things that was on the budget um which was a school Grant I put the $50,000 School Grant there because the after school buses was something that people have said that they wanted they needed it back now we did this grant because and we thought it was uh it was a good tool that we could use um and I was working with the Board of Ed this was not something that I just came you know came up and said I want to do this and then I want to find out how many kids are using this bus this is something that I worked with B fed that we were going to do some data analysis to determine you know how many kids were using it how many buses do we need or don't need locations etc etc and then if not many kids were taking it that would have been a good way to to go back to the people and say look this is no one's using these buses and that's $130,000 a year that uh we could you know could save so at this point we're not going to know that now or maybe maybe the Board of Ed will do it um now especially since they are uh I guess there's some budget changes happening now so um and I think it was widely supported but um excuse me I am bouncing all my my originally saved document didn't save when I closed my laptop so I do apologize um so again uh this is something that we you know we may not always agree you know uh count and I may not always agree on everything um and this was one of those times and uh you know I'm not going to allow this to ruin our relationship uh that I have with Council because of two reasons the first I think most of us are are are like-minded uh we're a like-minded group and the second it doesn't help Veron if we don't work together we've seen this in the past so I I don't want to repeat bad history in ver example the other day Pat Pat and I had an argument and he abruptly left my office and the next following day we were down at Schumer uh inhaling crap so I guess we could uh say we've been in the together so uh you know I we we we learned a lot um we we got to visit the Vernon uh Treatment Center uh which is pretty state-ofthe-art I like to think um I think we learned a lot on the on what the Legacy system was doing and what the new system does um so it's good to kind of get a real good look and I was going to say feel but we didn't touch anything but we but we smelled it um but anyway so that's for for the for the the Schumer stuff but uh also just want to a little heads up we have an agreement by from our uh attorney on the water Expansion Project um which which is for our town center and and Brian Holmes so we're fine-tuning that I think I sent you guys a copy but we'll we'll get the finalized copy to you guys before we sign off on anything so I want you guys to all look at it and then we'll we'll send it through all right thank you um that should be that will happen this week so um this week as you know so yeah my original copy didn't didn't save so I think uh so another thing you guys will see out there is uh there's been signs put out there for no littering um you know we we've had I've had the DPW out out there cleaning up uh especially with break neck we hit break neck and they spent the entire day cleaning up and it's a lot of garbage that's out there so you know fines are up to $1,000 if if you are littering um and there is imprisonment as well and those fines can go to third offense um and and up to 180 180 days in prison so um you know we're taken it very seriously uh but one of the things that i' found um or at least people are finding is there's a lot of beer cans and alcohol bottles this is troubling um I have reached out to the Chief and hopefully this week we're going to start looking at some uh drinking and driving initiatives um that we could do in our town because uh I'm not going to wait for a family or someone to get hurt killed I'm not waiting for that to happen so we'll we'll we'll take whatever actions we can uh to protect the citizens of this town so um that's again like I said I I apologize my uh my original copy didn't didn't save so anyway that's all I have thank you counc president thank you mayor may I have a motion to open the floor to the public on agenda items only Mr period limited to three minutes per person they have a I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs bueri is there a second second second by Mr Sparta he was louder that's fine Closer Closer thank you all in favor signify by saying I I I oppose motion carries if you have a question or comment for the council please come to the podium and hi good evening Steve dunlo I don't know if this microphone is just not working picking you up but it wasn't picking Anthony Up For What the mayor said we've talked about this forever about these micro these speakers I'm sorry it's working I think the mayor just wasn't close enough to it okay I I can hear it now but I sure didn't I heard about half of what he said that wasn't on the agenda briefly because I'm getting ready to go over the school board and watch him take another $4.4 million out of our pocket resolution 24 that isn't on our agenda either 24162 um the live streaming and the publication right couple meetings it was discussed Mr Sparta brought it up about the AI and people just putting their names up as opposed to their faces up and I had no problem with that I agreed I thought it was important we don't always look the best but made sense and then there was further discussion I think at the last meeting about um continuing meetings when we didn't have access to the internet which happened a couple times I remember you and I were here last year sitting around at 7:30 at night waiting to get internet access so all that made sense you're going to have the lawyer into it maybe change some wording to make it where they continue with the meeting without and then I go online and look at the agenda and it says just to completely cut out public participation if you're not present that wasn't what the discussion was um I have some ideas as to why people would want to go that way I know you made some some some comments that for were for the most part appropriate but maybe some things were said that shouldn't have been said as far as trying to restrict what people could talk about um there are people that even Mr mcer I think I'm one person that can say his name properly makes some valid points sometimes when he calls in there's old people sometimes they can't come out at night sometimes they're out of town they want to participate they have something to say 2024 I don't know why we would want to stop it I would say what's good for the goose is good for the gander if you're not going to allow citizens to participate I don't know the council members should be participating if you can't be here present I know Natalie's done it I know you've done it I know Brad's done it I Jessica's done it bill called in from Florida I think it should be discussed more this wasn't the discussion that we had over the last two or three meetings this just came out at left field I partially understand why and there's times when I roll my eyes when certain have 30 seconds when certain people call in but I think we should really consider to give the citizenry the same opportunities that we would give the council if the council wasn't able to be here that's my comments for tonight I did have some questions for denal but she's not here hopefully they'll be addressed there's somec me you want to address you have questions those are questions are address to me well there's some bills list items and it it can wait they've already been paid so it's kind of a mute point anyway um now I'm going to go to the board of EV and see what they have to thank you thanks guys thank you very much I appreciate what you all do I really do thank you I think you all know that I'll try to keep you three minutes good evening my name is George n and I live in the Sussex portion of Veron New Jersey as there are many topics to address here I have chosen to focus on one tonight and thus I here to talk in favor of resolution 24-1 162 regarding live streaming of Vernon Township Council meetings so first as you can see I made the effort to attend this meeting in person tonight and the reason why is because I deemed this along with the resolutions outlined as important to the township however my remarks have nothing to do with personal preference between being imperson or virtual I'm here to talk about the potential security risks thoughts and precedents in reference to Virtual meetings coming from 25 years of marketing and Technology experience I am no stranger to the buling that come out every day so the first point I would like to outline to you is the inherent security issues with the zoom platform as recently as February of 2024 Zoom had to address what looked to be a long-term issue with their death stop client which would allow unauthorized users to conduct the escalation of privileges via network access had they not patched this vulnerability what they would have spent what that would have spelled for the township would have been a potential C security breach of Township meetings and even potentially any information stored on network servers this is just one of many issues with the platform which also comes back to identifying the issue of identifying attendees as a town clerk outlined in the last meeting in essence there is no way to that people watching the stream on Zoom thus no real way to know who is speaking in addition there are many other options available to live stream a Township meeting directly to YouTube which will eliminate the need for a zoom license thus reducing your budget expenditures the second item I'd like to outline to you is the inherent risk of artificial intelligence when it comes to Virtual public comments today anyone can download a virtual Voice or camera application to their computer or phone and train it to impersonate anyone voice AI for example is a solution that functions on the collection of sound bites from individuals and uses a concept called machine learning where where the more you feed the AI application the better the application could replicate your voice with 30 seconds you then set up voice AI a virtual microphone on a platform zoom and then sign in the third I'd like to outline is precedence before before covid residents came in to comment on Council comments and business and watched it virtually it makes sense for Vernon Township to go back to that policy as many other townships have gone back to that policy with that said I hope what I've outlined you will take to consideration I understand I might have repeated myself from the previous meeting but I wanted to make sure that I was clearly Auto in person regarding my concerns and not cut off by a cell phone two poor cell phone connections thank you for your time is there anyone else wishing to address the council hi I'm Stephanie Blane uh live up on EAS Court I really wasn't going to address Council but something George just said I don't know if he didn't have enough time to complete it or it just wasn't something he was going to say but I would encourage all of you if you don't already know or don't believe it to do a little bit of digging into this artificial intelligence uh type of person or personality hijacking kind of thing or impersonating kind of thing my husband writes custom software where and he has since the 60s and he's done a lot of government work Air Force a lot therefore we have or I have seen things that the average people haven't seen yet and will be seeing soon I didn't really believe when my husband told me essentially what George was saying I took the time in the last week and a half to upload video footage and photographs my dead father because it's the person I felt nobody be able to fake me on I also fed into the program pretty much everything I have of his voice let's just say I'm still having nightmares because the program replicated my father talking to me and he died in January 15 2020 2016 it's real it's terrifying and there is no way like if you're sitting here looking or something there's no way you know please go look at it for yourselves I mean I could give you people copies but none of you knew my dad so it wouldn't help I'm just telling you it's terrifying I wasn't really going to talk about it either be because I'm a little bit anany about talking about the Deb but I think it's important thank you very much Mrs is there anyone else do we have anyone online o chams 2 sorry o Champs o Champs too yeah how you doing uh first name is the well actually it's mcrey and it's Thomas uh three quick comments first off uh I disagree with the CFO a lot of times and apparently I'm going to do it again tonight but before I get to that I'd just like to apologize to the mayor because I really didn't get most of what he was talking about uh and the people have gotten up since haven't been very clear either having said that my three things are this uh bans as you know are Bond anticipation notes they last three years uh I sure wish the CFO would follow that state regulation uh the second thing I have to talk about is uh in the uh ordinance for bonding of two two plus million dollar you roll uh one year's worth of Interest actually you roll $168,000 of Interest into the bond but you can only do that for six months of the year pursuant to Statue 4 42-20 so again I disagree with the uh CFO on that one uh and as to um the grant writer here again uh the state regulation say you can only issue contracts for two years with the with a an extension of one year onto that so that's three years here you have a grant writer you're going to issue a fiveyear contract to uh and there's no um top there's no there's no limmit to how much you're going to spend per year on this all you get is how much they're going to charge per hour and that's about it uh very vague to say the least and again you can't issue or approve contracts for five years it's against the law uh and haven't said that um you also have to look at Cost benefits of all this I mean if they're going to go out out and get a grant for $5,000 but you paid them 10 it's just not going to work I mean it may work for the politicians but not you have 30 seconds B pardon 30 seconds 30 seconds yes that's what you have to speak left in your a lotted Time Oh I thought that was like a movie over Tokyo or something uh okay uh that's about what I had to say and another grand Plus for a $700,000 uh increase in the town budget uh because of a a special contract that nobody knew about even though the CFO is for the township and the the MUA but nobody knew about that I mean it doesn't speak well for financial management having said that as always have a good night thank you thank you there anyone else I don't have any other hands up seeing no one else wishing to come forward or speak to the council may I have a motion to close the floor to the public second move by Mrs de benedetto is seconded by Mr Sparta all in favor signify by saying I I oppos motion carries all members Council have received copies of the bill um if you have any questions on that you can address them now on the call she's not but she we have our business administrator oh yeah yeah is no I'm I'm on oh yeah you are great okay I am yep I just had a question about the clean communities chat 6831 for $750 so we we paid that to the board of EDS so what are they using what is that used for those are for um so for scheduled cleanup so they might have a group of indiv I'd have to check with DPW exactly who was there for that day but they schedule cleanups at different locations and they can um apply the donation yeah okay so like a group does it okay I forgot about that okay yeah and I just wanted to to make a have a quick question and then make a comment the um 61817 the 345,000 $45,000 to our library system so I hope you're not a user of the library please use the library there's great resources and it is in your taxes and we're paying for it so thank you anyone else yeah I have a couple questions for Dell on 61748 pay $4,000 for Actuarial soling services for what bring it up for a second hold on sorry bring it up we're required to have um certain reports for the state of New Jersey for the audit um it has to do with all the accumulated absences and um calculations of potential liability that's why we have to use an actuary for that that's a requirement from the state then for the audit correct okay second question on uh 61750 it it really has to do with the general question we're approving $68,000 for pation to replacement is that town money is that mua money whose money is it how does it work is really my question you're in the CFO for both and and is the town approving the MUA funds because we're bonding it and they can't how's it work this that's kind of a big question so let me just let me go through it a little bit um at a time so um the MUA was established to not be able to take out any debt right so the MUA doesn't own any assets all the assets are owned by the township the entire sewer system the pump stations the pipes and the ground um so because of that they cannot take out debt even if they had wanted to they have no assets to back it up um because of that anything that needs to be done to the system and since the system is owned by the township the township takes out the debt for those improvements however those payments are eventually paid back by the MUA they're paid for Pump Station two but for Pump Station two specifically that will be paid back by Mountain Creek so the funding runs through the township so the bond ordinance for Pump Station 2 was passed a few years ago um for that for that replacement um even though Mountain Creek is going to pay for it the township takes out the bond ordinance for it and then all the funds are run through the township because the MUA can't have the funds run through it because the money is awarded to the township um and then the pump station is paid for through the township and then once it is fully bonded with uh the New Jersey infrastructure Bank we'll have a bond payment schedule that Mountain Creek will be paying the township for okay so let's take a scenario where this Council decides that it's a a positive thing to sell the uh the MUA we get a buyer whose decision is that what do you okay so well you can't s you're talking about selling the assets the sewer system correct yeah if we decide to sell the sewer system whose decision is it to do that so that would be a Township Council decision but it would need to include a lot of financial um discussions yeah but but it wouldn't be overridden by the mua no the MU the MUA operates it the MUA doesn't own it okay and the people that operate the MUA how many paid employees are in there three three and they were the people that were at the MUA meeting we had they're the Commissioners not the employees okay now I think I have a fuller understanding at mu thank you very much uh another question has to do with uh uh fire departments who owns the fire department buildings is that a question is that a question for me yes well 61789 has money going to MAV fire department reimburse monthly $647 so obviously the town benefits greatly from the volunteers everybody appreciates everything they do I'm just wondering similar question I have with M who owns the actual buildings Township no no the no the build the buildings are not owned by the township the buildings themselves are in the fire departments they're owned by the fire departments correct who owns a fire who owns a fire department there's a board of directors there's an individual how's it work the fire departments are allotted a certain amount of money every year who are they that own the building the fire department the fire department owns the building and who's the fire department well they have a a charter as a a particular company that uh whether it be Highland Lakes uh Vernon or McAfee they have a they have an established Charter as a fire department right so if the group of firefighters as a group decide to sell one of those buildings they could do it yeah they that's right they could do it yeah okay I don't understand the process here because we're funding something that we don't own and we're getting a great service in returns want to know the legalities yeah as a matter of fact the the fire department owns its own building in certain areas and they also own certain property that they were able to purchase uh along Route 94 and there had been a consideration I believe at some point that they were going to change locations oh by the library but that was up to them not up to the council and they haven't done it yet but right yeah another reason I'm asking is the uh the uh Glenwood poock ambulance Squad was was actually chartered underneath mavie fire department from my understanding and it's now part of the Vernon ambulance Squad did the mavie fire department okay that or was that never asked to them the about the ambulance Squad yes being chartered to my understanding it was chartered underneath the uh the combined the ambulance sads all combined is that what you mean bill yeah now it's combined so it it was chartered and own quote owned by one of the fire departments apparently like Glenwood pochu well I don't know if they own the I don't know if they own the the ambulance Squad but they you know the uh I think they may own the rigs and the rigs are are Town owns all the rigs yeah fire trucks everything is owned by that just the buildings are owned so we just we provide support for them so the town owns a rig that's sitting in a building owned by someone else and then we provide that support and the same thing with damel Squad because there's a lot in here with monies for muas for fire departments for everything i' just like to know who's who's who not a bad question to ask because there's obviously misunderstanding even on the people up here yeah okay uh Natalie already hit on the uh the library tax as just said $345,000 for a quarter so we're paying we're paying a million two over yeah million four for library and uh hopefully we get and that's all for now thank you thank you anyone else anyone else move on approval of minutes all council members have receiv received copies of the units of uh May 13 special joint meeting mua Township Council May 13th regular meeting and the May 14th special emergency meeting uh may I have a motion to place May 13 2024 special joint meeting on the floor for consideration I'll move that by Mrs bueri is there a second second seconded by Mr Sparta um any questions or comments deletions misss not I'll ask for call vote council member buer yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes motion carries thank you uh and for the regular meeting of May 13th ma'am have that motion to put on the moved moved by Mrs de benedetto is there a second second seconded by Mr Higgins um any changes deletions additions not may I have a roll call please council member bueri yes council member D berardo yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes carries and for our special emerc meeting on May 14th May I have a motion to place that under move consideration move by Mr Sparta is there a second second second by Mr de benedetta any questions comments or deletions on that nless for a Ru call please council member bueri yes council member D benedetta yes council member Higgins yes council member yes council president rudo yes motion carries you evening we have the public hearing on our 2024 Municipal budget amendment may I have a motion to place that Amendment on the floor and open it to the public comments so moved moved by Mr Higgins is there a second second it seconded by Mrs bueri all in favor signify by saying I I iOS motion carries there's a uh anyone wishing to address the Council on the the amended budget hi I'm eron Crum I'm the CEO of Vernon Emergency Medical Services um I'm here tonight just to see if you had questions for us I think you were alluding to some questions um so we can talk after about the buildings or whether we received permission from the fire department which we did not need but um if you have questions about what our um line items in the budget are going to I'm happy to speak to you about that right okay thank you there anyone else is there anyone online wishing to address the Council on the amend the amended budget um I have Mr mlre mcer yeah hi are we talking about the 700,000 that you added for the MUA is that uh Amendment to the budget and that's what I going to talk about and again I'd like to stress I don't see why that you had to be dragged down there 24 hours after you adopted the budget to then adjust the budget for something that was supposedly an emergency but to be quite honest uh I don't see it and it would never express what the emergency contract Ra was uh which would have been beneficial to any discussion or any logical uh decision of the public uh would make on this it's just to me it just as I said before does not bode well for the financial management to have an emergency session 24 hours after you adopt the budget uh and put 700,000 into that budget having said that you have uh you have to wait two weeks after introduction of the municipal budget before you can approve it and since you amended it does that mean you have to come back and then approve the budget two weeks after the amendment I I don't think you are totally correct business administrator if you wanted to comment that that or or CFO but the issue that we faced was that once the budget was not approved there was not enough money in the existing temporary budget where we could fund an appropriation for a payment to schuma not the MUA there's a difference this was this went to the Sussex County Municipal Utilities authorities not to Veron mua so we had to approve that particular appropriation for additional funds so that we could pay that particular bill that had been appropriated for schuma am I correct that's correct our budget was not adopted that night exactly it so I don't know why you're saying that we we didn't do anything we we couldn't we there wasn't enough money in that budget for that appropriation so that's why we had to come and there was a time a time uh a time commitment on meeting that particular uh amount of money to be sent to schuma that's why we had to meet here at five o'clock and have that special emergency meeting thank you yeah well you've had that uh contract with them for the last uh I don't know 10 years actually uh 15 years it must have been a surprise that they had dates in there that you had to pay them not at all Mr mcer the dates are always there but theyed excuse me they are predicated on whether or not the council will meet and approve the budget if for some reason the council feels that the budget is not acceptable we cannot approve I think we're regardless of what date is in there we had to have an Appropriations meeting that's all we're saying the same thing my is this should have been known before you had to become back I mean it was known because as I said the contract's been there for 15 years 15 years and you knew how much was in buget and the temporary budget that's it I mean we could discuss it all night but I think Mr Mr MCL it it it was a function that the budget was not approved on Monday night so be if the budget was approved on Monday night we would not have to have met for that emergency appropriation but since the budget was not approved therefore in the temporary budget that was set months prior that money was not in there because that temporary budget was set thinking that the budget would be approved by a certain time since that budget was not approved at that time that's why we had to have the emergency meeting if that payment did not have to occur until after this meeting we could have done that at this meeting but since the budget will hopefully be approved tonight it wouldn't had to occur it was solely a function of the budget not being approved at the May 13th meeting or whatever that was you keep on commenting that the $700,000 was added into the budget it was not added into the budget that's not what the purpose of that meeting was the purpose of that meeting was an emergency Appropriations so the funds could be paid to schuma in a timely manner thank you oh and again I I disagree you just didn't have enough buffer in the temporary budget so that's my point and your point you're making the same point so I think we can agree on that uh the CFO was not looking forward that there may be this may be something that happens that you have to have a buffer in the temporary budget a buffer of $700,000 you have 10 seconds left thank you thank you is there anyone else online I have no other hands out seeing no one else may have a motion to close floor second by Mr sparter seconded by Mrs de benedetto all signified by saying I opposed motion cares may I have a motion uh adopt the 2024 Municipal budget president you need to do a motion first on the amendment so there a motion to I'm sorry I have it right here may I have a motion to have a place the the amendment on the 2024 Municipal Budget on the floor for consideration moved moved by Mr Sparta is there a second second second by Mrs biriri all in favor signify by saying I I roll call vote roll call vote this is this is to important yes this is to amend this is to say that you want to amend the budget as discussed at the last meeting thank you um I'm sorry council member wer yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes counc president rudo yes thought I could speak that one motion carries now you can vote on the budget as amend now this would be the final budget vote right and can I I I need to read um uh resolution 24 163 record okay did I do that now yeah okay be it resolved by council members of the township of Vernon County of Sussex here by adopted and shall constitute an appropriation for the purpose state of the sums therein set forth as Appropriations and authorization of the amount of 18, 882 th45 47 for municipal purposes there it okay may I have that I have a motion to place that on the floor I'll make that motion by Mrs is there a second second seconded by Mr Higgins are there any questions or comments from the Council on this better not if not I'll ask for a roll call please council member bueri yes council member D benedetto yesc member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes carries thank you going to our consent agenda you see of any see any issues that you'd like to have separated please my attention and do so can I ask questions without separating them okay then I can it's up to you yeah I'm going to ask questions about separating 24-1 153 refund for totally disabled veteran blck 8 loot three solar resolution 24154 refund overpayment due to state tax court judgment Jennifer R Jacobus block 541 lot 48 resolution 24155 resolution requesting authorization to purchase five cardiac science automatic external defibrillators aeds from the Newton Medical uh Center Foundation continuation resolution 24156 continuation of the art advisory committee resolution 24-17 chapter 159 resolution requesting approval of Revenue and appropriation amending the 2024 budget as a revenue and appropriation of $222,000 resolution 24-18 authorizing issuance of estimated property tax bills resolution 24-1 159 resolution of the township of Vernon County of Sussex state of New Jersey authorizing the curing of telephonic communication system service software and Hardware through competitive Contracting process resolution 24-1 160 resolution of the township of Vernon authorizing the award of uh CC number 5-24 grant writer Services vendor through competitive Contracting process resolution 24-1 161 authorizing change order number two for PS number two PCO number five pressure reducing valve uh resolution 24-1 162 a resolution regarding the live streaming of Vernon Township Council meetings would anyone like to have any one any particular resolution separated or you have any questions on it I have questions on 24-16 okay the uh Brant writing service I thought we were going with a monthly subscription vendor yeah what happened this is the same Millennium group the one that Char so it's a so we pay a monthly subscription and $150 an hour we pay well yeah we pay um a yearly yeah the 4,800 cor right well that's the that's the 400 right every every okay um and then Mak 150 if we an hour if we um when grants come to us we want to do to get us up at zero cost can assist but anytime they we ask them toist $150 an hour okay keep in mind the when we went out and I'm not going to name companies but there was a bunch of companies that were not even in New Jersey and a lot of them required 40 to $50,000 deposit um and that's without anything um this company same company that and has a tremendous track record getting a lot of money um and uh have proed to that so we are weely happy to there's a lot of money out there that we are uh Missing um that we can collect also if there's a grant that we want they will tell us whether or not we would even get it or not before wasting our time but they will also say you say this is a grant we want they say well yes you you can get that Grant you probably qualified um they would tell us how how many hours it would be say they'll take you know 10 hours off for us to do this Grant and that's that's how they B before they even touch it they will tell you how much it's going to cost and they do not take any kind of commission after that so you get the full amount it's truly is a win win win win yeah I heard somebody in the comments mention well what we pay them $40,000 to get a $30,000 Grant and they did build that into here that we won't pay more than the grant is worth the wording I question which I think you might have just answered but it says um Millennium reserves the right to reject any project support request made by the township at any time for any reason um where I'm sorry it's under the fee schedule for service 5 and service 5 is the grant writing that that 15 an hour the project support for that want to just back on that Mike there anything else anyone ex says that was my only question for that in terms of Grants also to do with this might not be with millennium are there matching funds that have been budgeted for if we get grants typically there are matching funds some of them are and we would know that right off the bat you would know before you uh oh yeah yes okay because I I had the same concern as Jessica it it seems open-ended to me yeah this 150 an hour just seems the way it's worded sure I believe we could even cancel at any time too um we do yeah was it fiveyear contract we did we do a five-year contract this way you know we don't have to go through all this again after so we've had some success with the statute it it may be in there I I thought that or want to answer the question about the um being able to turn down or or projects um since that's an added on so in other words all of a sudden we came back and said we want you to help they've identifi a grant part of normal service we say we'd like your health uh the way I understand that that language be like anything else right if they don't have the Manpower at that time to to assist they could come back and say hey this you know you've identified a grant but it's due tomorrow and we can't drop everything to help you because you're requesting it on a short notice um but that's that's how I read that in terms of because there's really two Services you're getting here right you're getting one which is their that monthly public identify the other one is specific projects so I kind of looked at it um in in uh I read it in some way similar to like uh I don't want to say like an attorney it's not exactly the same thing but theoretically right there could be a project where you guys come to me and say oh we need you to do this and I could say look I I don't have we need a special counsel for that I can't you know it's outside the scope of what I'm able I'm good at doing or know we need to get some digital help that's I read it um as kind of saying I'm giving M out to make sure that they don't get stuck um being told on 24 hours no yeah right setting them up so that that's how I took it as like a their CIA of hey you can ask us to do stuff but we're not obligated to take any specific projects um just because you asked us we're not yeah no I get it and I think I understood that when Anthony said it I just feel like anytime for any reason is a bit broad probably written by their lawyer who makes sure you give them every Poss get for uh for that so as for the mayor's comment Sparty uses a service I guess you're aware then that is there our grants versus theirs have they quadrupled ours doubled ours or we don't know or I haven't done you know an analysis on that I know uh like this came up with uh the police chief um that's where we this this company uh when addressed it um but there is something there is a list there's a list of in the packet that you see that shows all of the towns in the state of New Jersey that actually uses this company yeah and they you know they have the other uh New York Pennsylvania they break it down to county how much day quite a few oh okay thank you in terms of comment that was brought up by a resident that we are in violation of a statute by extending the contract for over three years is that correct I I'm not aware off the top of my head I I I don't want to um say statute quot whether that's accurate or not as a general matter um what I will tell you is that uh so first of all competitive back up not to make this overly complicated but competitive Contracting is a a little bit different than you know some of the other services it's a way of getting bids but it's more specific about what you're looking for so it's it's got own set of rules uh as a general matter municipalities can't enter into contracts um indefinitely because there's a general public policy that says we don't want to tie the hands of future governing bodies maybe sure you're all going to be here for a very long time but if you weren't for one reason another if a future if a future Council came back and said well we don't want to do this the public policy that says you can't put in attorneys that you like definitely or services so um you know I think that um from a practical standpoint uh I I believe I wasn't able to locate while I was sitting here I do believe there's a provision allows you to get out any time that you can cancel I think the goal was to try to lock in the pricing it says essentially if you use them for five years they're guaranteeing certain pricing over that time because it's beneficial to you and to them to do that um if you know if it came time in three years from now you said we don't want to do this anymore and they said well you have a contract for five years I don't believe that would be sustainable I don't think a court would uphold uh then trying to enforce a fiveyear contract against against you thank you and you got references from some of these towns yes okay thank you are there any other questions on these resolutions no okay on on 159 24159 Tina for the bid you're uh soliciting Tel Communications yes a comprehensive telephone communication has this already been out on bidet no okay no we you have to approve it and then it'll be sent down okay that's right I I when I read it I thought it was already stating it's out on bidet that we haven't approved it yet yeah no if it's approved it'll be sent out within the next couple of days okay and uh this is separate from any Police Department Communications are there are they included this would be included with it it's inclusive and the Dispatch Center and DPW anim control as well the only thing that would not would good thank you thank you half the time we try to call and it's like waiting for open line it's so may I have a uh there any other questions no this is on the floor as a motion may I have a roll call please I don't yeah it wasn't I think we a second oh I'm sorry I'll make a motion move I'm sorry Mr buer second second by Mr SP uh now is when we would normally start talking about you guys are always jumping the gun that's me I'm sorry that may I have a roll call please yes council member bueri yes council member D Ben yes council member Higgins this is for all the resolutions yeah yeah I thought we were going to have a separate vote on say 24162 I asked but nobody want streaming I I am you would have pulled it out you can pull it out now if you'd like yeah I'd like to pull it out like separate 162 on the live streaming okay sorry Mercy motion and seconds Matt is that okay yeah that's start over please yes okay without 166 council member bueri yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council member rudo yes motion carries may I have a motion to place 24 162 on the floor for consideration still moved moved by Mr Higgins second seconded by this de benedetto um as a point of information asking that it be placed on the floor kind of ties you to a a positive vote on that particular issue yeah just mov does it doesn't it does that's that's it's it's in Robert's Rules but if you'd like to I'd like to resend that motion somebody else yeah I guess I had to resend as well well I don't second it we got a rolling for our attorney on that yeah I I I'm not I don't want to council president I'm sure is always right I don't know that he's wrong here um I have not heard that though I have seen instances where somebody has spit something they want to they want to have a vote so they move it and second it for purposes of having a vote um I do think from a practical standpoint though that if there's not um three other people who are going to move it then it becomes somewhat academic because someone got to move if it's going to pass someone has to move in second it so if there's not three other other votes that kind of or two other somebody else second it so it's possibility so being on many boards with Board of Education I've never heard that either Mr V well Board of the Board of Education are never run by Robert's Rules of Order well you were the president for years oh that was there they so may I have a motion place this on the floor for consideration I'll that motion second Mo by Mr gueri seconded by Mr Sparta uh are there any questions or comments now on on the on these this motion yeah I I have comments the audience uh from Mr donot Mr Blackley outstanding comments valid concerns uh council members CFOs you know Town members being able to use the service the uh the artificial intelligence but the number of people that we have calling in I can't think of one person who's called in that we don't know who they are and it would just make simple sense to me that they have to they have to put their camera on and we have to know who they are if a if a council member is out of town then just like uh when Joe tadrick was out of town we always saw Joe he was speaking pretty simple solution and uh if uh some alien comes down and steals everybody's face then uh I would uh be one to say let's reconsider it but it really got people that have trouble driving at night snowstorms whatever and uh residents have the right so uh you know I'll be in favor not in favor of enforcing it anyone else ASA can we require people to put their cameras on if they want to make public comment I know we talked about this briefly everybody has a camera that was the issue yeah that's the issue was then we everybody has a camera on their computer or not everybody knows how to change the name of their then you're limiting them from speaking then that I think that was the hangup that I had I think the issue brought to our attention about this is Blane about people Fabrica voice communication you know sobered me on this and I'd had even considered that my my concern on this is that the expense that we've been incurring because of Corporations coming in and requiring us to provide uh some you know information and using this but I think the AI kind of outweighs this and I I know Mr Sparta was going to give us a presentation but we haven't been able to set it up so I think that was my major concern council president I just want to um say that I believe in our ordinance it does say that the council is allowed to call in that's in our ordinance yeah I was going to say it's twoo separate I mean to the extent that the council uh wants to change its policy on Council Members calling into meetings that's a well I understand there could be some similarities of arguments in favor oppose everything else it is too different separate Provisions right now you can call in I think it's limited to twice a year there's some limitations on it's limited twice a year you can't just call in every meeting and I don't remember up top of my head if there's more restrictions but if the council wants to address that issue that can be done separately through amending your ordinance if you just choose to address this this resolution does not restrict or expand the of council members as they currently exist in your ordinance any other comments call vote call you ready okay call council member bueri yes council member D benedetto no council member Higgins no council member Sparta yes Council council president rudo yes motion carries thank you introduction of ordinances ordinance amending chapter 5 article 16 the municipal code of the township of Vernard may I have a motion um this is the um ordinance that we're gonna um table table yeah this is for the we just have to get the wording thank you so this through my requests this this will be uh placed on the agenda for yes the next meeting please uh your applications for all right 24 days wait an ordinance Capital ordinance providing for the various improvements by the township of Vernon in the county of Sussex New Jersey appropriating therefore the sum of uh 160,000 and providing that such sum be appropriated shall be raised from the general Capital reserves and the capital Improvement fund of the township may I have a motion to introduce this ordinance move move by Mrs benetto is there a second second it second it by Mrs um roll call vote please comments normally don't comment but if you wish I just want to know what fire department it says for the fire department and department administration is this specific to a fire department or this is for be shared and shared equally this I believe is for Island Lakes am I right which one is this for 24 2408 is for um General reserves and capital Improvement funds there any other questions roll call please council member bueri yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes yes president rudo yes 2 ordinance 2410 the introduction Bond ordinance appropriating 3,483 624 and authorizing the issuance of 2,220 ,000 for various improvements of purposes authorized to be undertaken by the township of Vernon the county of susex new may I have a motion to introduce this coordin I'll make that motion but you just need to go back to the 09 after that because you skipped did I do something just oh you're reading 24 I'm sorry that's okay we can do it out of order you already read it all so I'll make that motion thank you for thank you okay 249 a bond ordinance providing the Improvement of the Highland Lakes there we go fire department building in in and by the township of Vernon in the county of susex New Jersey appropriating $15,750 therefore and authorizing the issuance of 100,000 in bonds or notes of the township for financing such appropriation may I have a motion to introduce this ordinance I'll make that motion moved by Mrs luy is there a second second seconded by Mrs de benad thank you this one's Highland L still yes right this is the one on on like right okay call please council member bueri yes council member D benedetto yes council member yes council member yes council president rudo yes 24-10 the bond ordinance appropriating 3,483 624 and authorizing the issuance of 2,220 th000 for various improvements of or of purposes authorized to be undertaken by the township of Vernon in the county of Sussex New Jersey may I have a motion to introduce this ordinance 410 moved moved by Mr Sparta is there a second second second it by Mrs debetta roll call please counc member yes council member de benetta yes council member Higgins yes council member yes council president R yes public comments may I have to for public com on any item this is limited to five minutes on any topic may I have a motion please move move by Mr de benedetto is there second I'll second it second by Mrs bueri all in favor signify by saying I I opposed motion counts carries floor is open to the public for discussion or comment on questions on any item you make a comment evening George again and I'd like to thank you for asking the virtual ordinance I'd like to directly address council member hiin no that's not proper you address me i' like to address that was made regarding uh cameras and uh security when it comes to artificial intelligence bottom line is that while you might have 15 people 50 or 100 it only takes one to compromise your meeting and by doing this you secured your network your servers and everything like that so thank you very much for passing thank you anyone else wishing to address the council anybody online yes Mr MCL Mr mccl hello yeah I'm here hold on a second Mr rudo uh okay first off I'd just like the people and the castle people who voted no on 162 are correct you may not like the public commenting on what you're doing but you ought to be open to as much public comment as you can get frequently we hear that you met somebody in the back aisle of acne and they told you that you know spending 18 million is great well you know that's just he say but but when somebody gets on public comment give you their name then that's the public and the public knows what that person is saying not what the guy in Acme is saying because I've heard that one numerous times having said that I'd just like to say this uh frequently people have the opinion that some politicians not you folks uh some politicians have a relationship with the truth which is ephemeral at best uh and as I said it has nothing to do with you but that's the standard that you're going against and you folks have to up your game to meet that to get across your opinion and convince the public that politicians are worth listening to and if you cut out the public which is what you're doing here it's uh it's silly and you know I'm not the type of person that would say if I ever met a politician that was saying the truth the stealing uh the plaster on the ceiling would fall down in the cine Chapel uh I've met a lot of honest politicians people that want to do good but what you doing here is not good on 162 thank you and have a good night thank you anyone else I have no other hands up I'm sorry no other hands seeing no one else coming before the council may I have a motion to close the floor to the public move can I I I have a question about um the grant writing um coming from ambulance Squad oh sorry my name is Aaron Crum the CEO her BS we have brought up uh previously wanting to use grant writing services um I haven't reviewed the entire proposal of of this but Does it include use by local volunteer agencies or is it limited to um you know Township only operations I think you'd have that's an operational matter I think you'd have to address I believe that that portal is open um to allow so like if you decided that they could do EMS and we could do fire we could do okay things okay thank you and education too great thank you I'm sorry council president I didn't wasn't at first going to say anything my name is Brian Lynch and I think most of you know me and there is a ordinance here 2409 and this is something that's never happened before in Vernon Township where uh the township offered a bond to the fire department to help them with their Renovations now what had happened here was is that I went to the bank to try to get loans to do this Provident Bank is our bank and they were in the process of being buying the susex county bank since we are a 501 Corporation we needed to have a commercial loan and that needed to have uh uh a title search done and everything else and these fees are exorbitant it made it almost impossible for us to get alone I had come down and spoke with Donell and donel said that I I asked I didn't even ask for the bond I asked if we were able to get a grant and she says let me talk to bond counsel and let me see what says what he says the only people that are doing the paying here is the Highland Lakes fire department the town is getting back their money and they're getting back the interest because Joey the lip in Jersey City who is the uh guy that lends money on the side wants even more money than the bank so we can't go to him either but I do thank you all for introducing this ordinance and I hope it comes to a great conclusion thank you there anyone else no seeing no one else come forward I ask for a motion to close the floor to the public moved moved by Mr Sparta is there a second second second by Mrs bueri all in favor signify by saying I I oos motion carries thank you Council comments Mr Higgins yes I have a few as usual being being new you know like uh ending the fifth month there's a lot that has come up in a lot of the meetings try to sit and listen and learning a lot a lot of times you ask questions and nobody really knows the answer such as who owns the Fire Department fire department who owns the sewer these were important question so I'm just going to add to that list there there was a lawsuit that we lost to schuma and I think it was a $440,000 pay that we had to pay a fine has that been paid is it on the books anybody know what's going to happen to that it's a $40,000 fine mean lost lawsuit and two legal fees scuma the legal fees you're talking about yes yeah we're not you you have to have a judge order us to pay those fees we've never been ordered to pay fees and and if we are ordered does does the town pay it or does the MUA pay it or do we back the MUA on everything I would think it's probably gon to be the township since they are the ones who actually took them to court uh but don't hold me to that but again we're getting these things from scho you know we're constantly getting invoices they have nothing on them they just you know $6,000 for services like the bill just up from who from schuma oh from schuma yeah and like I said we we haven't been ordered to pay legal fees return I have to get back here I you know that that lawsuit is not something that Ur prior of my my being here it has not crossed my desk since I've been Council so if there's um I'll get back if there's been anything new on it I I'm not aware of it and if it's prior it hasn't come I'll look into it prior to my time yeah I'll I'll look into it uh councilman and if there's any issues I can right so I mean the way it normally works right so there's a law  that goes on uh you have to request right for your legal fees to be paid yeah and has to be ordered by judge yeah in in most instances the the general rule is that each side pays their own attorneys whether you win or lose the basic rule is each side pays their own attorneys there are certain instances where there's fee shifting and usually it's because there's a certain statute that says you know under like an Oprah case as an example right C brings an Oprah case you know the C law and they're successful the statute says they get fees if it's just a basic dispute contract dispute a you know debate between two parties on whatever the topic is each site pays its own fees barring there being a statute that says you shift it or if it's like a contract dispute and the contract says you know if you've if you've contracted a shift fees that's it so those are the situations where there would be fee shifting and a judge would have to order that as part of the order to say based on this statute based on this contract you have to pay fees and there's a process for determining how much are the fees reasonable or there's a okay secondary B that another question has to do with the MUA meeting I sat here and listened to people explain how the fee structure is designed edus so if I own a home with three bedrooms somebody owns one with two I pay more and I'm just sitting here saying why wouldn't it be calculated on usage instead of edus you could have a house sitting here for 11 months used for one one month out of the year for a recreational summer home and pay on three bedroom years with no usage they don't they don't have beaters um those metas are extremely expensive I I believe uh I guess council president can y see when when the MUA was instituted going on the basis of uh using edus now people seem to think that these edus are calculated out of air or or by by our mua actually these edus come from a uh you know Trenton through their through the establishment in their the the and also in the county in relationship to what they're uh what their fees are so it's it's not just a two bedrooms or more than three even though they are but even a house with one with one toilet may not necessarily be one edu might be less it it depends upon the flow the anticipated flow and what's being put into it so is there any discussion ever taken up on the cost of meters and putting meters I think the problem is is it's it's it's well water too because I think a lot of the times if it's City water it's easy it's water in water out right yeah but there's no there mostly a lot of the home calls yeah okay lastly on lot we passed it it merged the uh ambulance squads together it's been about five months one of the overall goals was double goal one was to say to the people who were actually performing the service thank you very much you deserve some money for it you deserve some compensation and the other half of was to attract new members so at a future meeting I was wondering if you could come up and make presentation on what you're trying to do to attract new members that was the overall goal just say where we go okay thank you for that and uh that does it for me that was a great question you know they're always looking for me for new members and I think that's an excellent uh question to keep our eyes on this there anything else we could do that to assist them in getting new members so Mr de just a question is it always 30 degrees in here this warmer days politicians with the hot air you got to keep it down lower so it's but not the air conditioning how much money are we spending on this air conditioning it's always cold in that mik I'm just gonna tell you if we complain we will be sweating it's usually hot in here Jessica so it is cold but I'd rather be window unit two window AC units right behind you oh they're not even on no not on I mean that's how hot it is in here sometimes we have to put them on and if we can't have them on during the meeting because they're too loud yeah so it like we either freeze or we sweat so bring a jacket next time that's all I don't want to sweat no I don't want to sweat either SM uh yeah Mr Mar you mentioned about the water infrastructure funding resolution I got halfway through it before the meeting tonight there is uh a few whereases up from the now therefore it says the burrow and not the township all the others say Township so if we can I just don't want it to get past and then have that in there it was obviously I'm sorry it's it's three up from one two three up from the now therefore what what's the number I'm sorry it's the water infrastructure okay funding that Mr Mayor sent to us earlier today oh I didn't see okay oh that that's not on the agenda no the one that you sent us okay on the agenda it's just before it gets all finalized if somebody that was again I was that was a draft yeah I know that's why I thought that's all I know which you're talking about um no more no comments and uh I have no comment either so I have a motion to I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs berer is there a second second by Mr sparter all in favor signified by saying I I oos motion carries meeting is for 8:30 but