needed it when we did it with the susex Ral e e the it's raining happened to me too you want to cry yeah yeah in Long Beach the first time I went to Long Beach all a sudden I was down it's like I've left like my panoramic sunroof open almost convertible yeah you could smell I made never really it take a long time to get rid of that covered Anthony good how are you I've had like literally a whirlwind two weeks oh no that I have had a breath and we need a break yes the Allies trying to get their message through know what that is okay go the meeting to order sure okay Marcy would you please read the meeting statement adequate notice of this regular meeting was provided to the public in the Press on January 17 2024 and was posted at the municipal building in accordance with public meetings Act njsa 10 47 thank you would you all please rise and join me in a pledge to our flag I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all roll call please council member bushier here council member D benedetto present hello can you hear me sorry yes council president are you pres thank you okay this evening we have a few items for discussion one of the items that we I had suggested and the mayor and I had discussed was uh the solicitor's license which is being uh brought for brought up for discussion um in that we are seeing an increase in the number of people who are approaching uh residents you know at their home and um I wanted to and the council wanted to find out if there was any way that we should uh provide some security for our residents in terms of requiring lure for these individuals uh perhaps uh the mayor want might want to open up the discussion on this well I know uh just recently um we've had uh a number of a number of people come in and looking to solicit uh I guess some uh products that's through our town through our neighborhoods um not not the private neighborhoods but um you know just from my experience in talking of people you know I just find that today nobody likes having someone ring their doorbell uh unexpectedly so um and I and I think and I see it all the time people posst and like you know who's this anyone know who this person is you know we live in uh unfortunately there's know we we we are in the safest neighborhood New Jersey um according to New Jersey records but um that doesn't mean that uh things don't happen so and people are worried to you know uh today about having um you know their their security and and people worried about people knocking at the do and you know we don't live in the in the greatest world today so unfortunately um seeing people come and knocking on doors is I think personally and uh I don't think people like it so I I think that um that I think something should be done about it I think um I don't hear people you know bragging that they when people ringing their doorbells and certain times and selling different products no nobody knows who they are so I think it's I think it's um I think it's an issue and uh when you have I think um Mary if I correct me if I'm wrong I think it was 10 20 people that came 20 20 people within what time frame all at the same time all at the same time they came in the same day yes were they all from the same company yes and they um they haven't been approved yet because they they need um to be fingerprinted but I did receive all the licenses the fees and there's um 20 solicitors so they're all going to go out together they have like a plan obviously I don't know what their plan is they must um so who pays for the fingerprinting they do okay so we have a an ordinance a solicitors yep and this is the current ordinance even that has the okay yeah do you want tighten this up is that the question like can we tighten this to limit it further in offering licenses to solicitors is that um I well that or um I guess we can we can set up a a list right Marcy I believe there's a list that you can go on that you don't want that you don't want people knocking on your door I think there's a a list that they would have to follow um we give out a list of um uh a non-s solicitors list that is mostly mainly right now the uh private communities because the private communities don't allow it um as far as other residents there as of right now there is no other list um there can be a list created what does a list mean I don't understand it's a nons solicitors list so you wouldn't I would give them this list and they wouldn't be able to go to the houses that are off so Township residents would have to sign almost like the Do Not Call Registry yep um it's very hard to keep track of and every time somebody um ask to be put on this list list I have to give 20 solicitors a new list um and normally people don't know about this list until somebody's already in their driveway and they're not happy so could we do it on our website and have it be dynamic so folks can update it their themselves and then solicitors would look there well that's well I don't know if we can that's a good idea but I don't know oh because it's names yeah I would think you know uh yeah the only technology we can have that piped into our own list and uh I mean this way M doesn't have to keep you know updating the list right them updated themselves and then you could hide the name and just have the address yeah I mean any address is public information yeah I don't I I don't know how we would have that feature on our website that would have to be a a it it should be admin discussion unless we just get rid of it all together and just don't L solicitors at all yeah right yeah we could do that or can we let me ask a question the those 20 individuals who came was the fee for each person or is it in total for the company um I collected a fee for each um solicitor okay so I collected a fee for 20 of them what's the fee we charge um I the application 100 for the license is the license per company or per person too per person so each one was 120 so you could really control if you want to jack up your F yeah yeah is there any reason why we couldn't uh is there any reason why we could not move that to say $100 per person it it was $100 the license fee is 100 no I'm talking about the fee for individuals or 200 yeah or or or or point out that this may be a problem um and becomes an issue under Daniel's law so not have it are you talking about the list becomes an issue under Daniel's law no having licenses for the individuals I don't know I'd have to look into that as it specifically relates to Daniel's law and get back to you I hav uh I don't know on the top of my head but I can get back on to the Council on okay okay and to be clear the list that I was talking about that folks update themselves I wasn't saying to make that list public oh no that wouldn't be there okay yeah I mean but the solicitors would have to get it and it would have it would be an address not a name yeah I I wouldn't give out names I mean I'm curious how many town do other towns just not allow solicitors I'd be curious to see that's up to the end of yeah I'd be curious to see if other you know do other you know how many other towns do that is that a pop that it who knocks on people's doors anymore like what are they selling they I had one within a month I've had one at my house yeah there I'm not home a lot some for solar um this is for um uh Pest Control right yeah are they app app yes came to my house app yeah and I'm in a lake community and they and you're in a lake community and supposed to yeah I know it's very hard to control and they might not even understand what's the Lake community and what's not you know what I mean well we give them a list we give them a list so well they're not following that list just so you know yes did did you buy chemicals see that's I did pay for service for them and I've been trying to exactly the problem um council member D benedetto is we don't know until somebody's falling and complaining yeah and then by then it's it's too late you know is out of the barn can can we find them well I was gonna say there's nothing in here about finding people so I mean if you really want to keep this you can make it very cost prohibitive for people to do it yeah and then if they if they get a complaint that they've um solicited in a area that was on the do not solicit list then there's a fine yeah but then good luck getting them to pay ity you didn't get any calls today did you no they didn't get their licenses yet the 20 um that applied we haven't issued them a license yet there are some licenses um for solar um that we have given out so far this year but not too many um I would say maybe five but the 20 um applicants that came in have not been licenses yet so actually if they're going around doing this as of now they don't have a license app app yeah I was L today on a bug exterminator guy 30 years old on an electric scooter was it app was it app tape yeah yeah that's okay they don't have a license so that's now because I will let Chief maybe they just won't get their license yeah they were over they're already they're already going against our ordinance right also is there a timeline as far as how long the license is for it's good for a year so you could actually tighten that up too it's it's um January to December so literally if they came in in if they got a license in November they would have to renew it again for January oh okay that's good yeah but I that's interesting that they're already okay that's they came a little yeah that's pretty good so what is the how would we how would the Council like to proceive would you like to see a tightening of the existing license uh or the you know the existing or ordinance um in terms of uh moving it along or um developing another ordinance that uh is uh that recognizes the fact that Vernon is a rather rural Town having many people who are unable to even see their next door neighbor and uh and yet it also has uh you know residences such as the condos which are private and yet developments where houses are you know close by but they're not uh gated or any way like that um my concern is that if we begin to if if companies are resorting to the fact that inexpensive labor is available and they can ask these people to make calls on homes um they're they're we literally become a Target because of the the fact that uh these people can go into these areas the the only saving rce actually is the fact that we're 70 square miles so I mean you know it's a it's a lot of movement I wonder how we're talking about because if you think about the condos and all of the lake communities I think the bulk of our population is in is you know what I mean is in one of the so in a private but a private anyway anyway and they're not I mean my road is a private road I'm not in a Lake Community but so so there's I'm not saying that the homes that are not in Lake communities aren't important but um I don't think anybody likes a solicitor coming to their door um so I don't even I would be inclined to just say do we even want to issue them you know I for the for the smaller percentage of homes that aren't already on the do not solicit list just because they're in private communities I think are we are we required to have uh licenses available for solicitors so that they can perform their function are we required I don't believe I don't think there's a firm requirement I can double check but I don't think there's a firm requirement okay that says we don't permit soliciting in our town you could I think you could yes um there's many towns that you enter they have a sign right the town to go no solicit Sol I would recommend if you did do that obviously to set up a violation system yeah obviously yeah yep well maybe then mayor we might need some input from the chief on this yes and see what he says maybe we in in that regard um I'd be fine with getting rid of it if we're going to keep it then I think we should have our licensing fees at $1,000 make it cost prohibitive and violation and also violation and violations that yeah you know if and those violations are like you know $5,000 per offense or something just you know I mean license and they can't come back we talk about new ways of trying to create Revenue here you go do we place ourselves in a position of uh being um yeah a p yeah exactly punitive and trying to do this isn't it better to just say we don't want you rather than to say will'll take you but you're going to be paying through the arm you know that's a business decision on their part you know I'm just wondering is there a legal situation that it puts us the Township in I don't know um I mean be as clean as possible you might want to consider having this go into effect for 2025 so have LIC licenses aren you know Prejudice in any way um you you don't have to deal with refunds or that magnitude but you could pass the ordinance with the effective date of January 1st 25 that's what you Mar they all have to renew by 2025 okay so you you could do that yeah with with the EV you know with the the availability of contacts through you know online merchandising and that type of thing I I question whether uh the residents would like to see people walking up there walk way and I I totally agree with Brad on that regard so um would it be okay if we moved this to a uh a development stage and had uh an ordinance brought forth a little later um the with the approval of the attorney and and the mayor and getting input from our police chief that we uh we eliminate the availability of uh you know solicitors in our Township that yeah I don't see why not okay yeah so can we move that way gentlemen ladies yes yes absolutely all right so uh I'll work with uh Marcy to move that along as well as with the attorneys and uh and the mayor thank you anybody else have any any further comment on that are we are we clear the next item is the sign ordinance um the last meeting I mentioned that I had been on the committee to developed the sign ordinance and the issue was at that point the uh use of what we would call feather uh feather Flags or feather signs um which apparently have appeared throughout Town um I made a drive through town uh over the weekend and I was surprised really because I hadn't been in that area in a few weeks owing to my schedule uh there are five businesses now that are using this type of advertisement I asked the I asked Marcy to provide all of you and the mayor and the attorney with photos of these signs and where they are now I had had a previous discussion with the mayor about the use of these signs and we talked about it as perhaps a way of you know working to engender uh support for new businesses uh by having it become a 30 60 or 90day uh uh availability for the use of these signs but if you look at those photos all of those businesses are not new they are long-standing businesses and certainly if they're going to require on require these signs I don't see you know what good it would do it kind of cheapens the the event the the look of the community in that's in those particular areas um the only the newest business of course is the is in the right by wings uh and I hadn't seen any there and I've seen that one and then one appeared right across the street on another longstanding business now my question is if these have been up for a while um why weren't they brought to the attention of the mayor or to the council by the mayor uh or uh you know by our compliance people yeah the complaint just comment on that um the bubas was was brought to my attention uh and I knew we were having this discussion um and I did ask um to hold off um I know you know bubb is is well bubb is is I still consider it new um and and you know that location is very difficult but but that ALS does not does not uh you know you do for one you do for all right so um I knew this topic was was coming up or at least I requested that we we discussed the signed ordinance um because we do we do want to be you know business friendly we want our businesses to succeed however yes there is the appearance of it too right um so you know I'm very happy that we're actually having this discussion um I know as a former business owner that you you you know you put sometimes you know some people they put their life savings into this and they're just praying that people see them and and and come in um so I could see you know where people uh why they do this but um you know again like I said I I wanted to have this discussion to see if there's may maybe there's some compromise um you know uh maybe allow one sign um you know if it's 7 foot tall it has to be 7 feet away from the road so it doesn't fall on the road but again this is a topic that I wanted to have with the council and and see if something um you know we can do or not do so again just something to to bring up so but the the question is is if these signs have been here why have and I'm not saying I want a business to suffer but if we have a sign ordinance and there are businesses that are not in compliance with it why hasn't that been enforced because if we change the sign ordinance are we going to enforce it like obviously we're not enforcing it now if if these existing businesses have these so we could change it but are we going to enforce it well yes enforcing it yes like I said uh with with bub is um I did um I'm not I don't want to pick on any particular business there's you know what I mean like so Pro like why if we don't allow these signs and I'm not saying I like them or dislike them but if the ordinance currently says these types of signs are not allowed why are they is that ordinance not being enforced and I don't know if our business administrator can you know address that you know so do they not enforce it why is that not happening I don't know I thought there was a 30 or 60 that is am I wrong it was I think for just Grand openings you can have them I thought that was but well grand opening has a 30- day right yeah and again I'm not saying I don't like these signs and I'm not saying I want to find a business but if we're going to have an ordinance that has specific things that we allow then we should enforce it because there's going to be businesses that follow the rules and and that and then there's ones that aren't and we need to be you know just like you said you do for one absolutely now is the feather flag is the feather sign on here I think maybe that's where the that gray area was I think the feather flag may be termed a different type of advertisement such as a banner self-supported you know you know made of cloth finds I never realized how many there were yeah exactly but I know that when the when the ordinance was developed the those flags were considered as was those fan those fan supported things where the guy flops around you know yeah fan ones yeah it looks really cheap and uh it's when we presented it to the community that time and the business people you know we knew that we would probably be coming back and having this type of a discussion which I think is good but again it becomes what do you want your community to look like we spent a lot of time with the L use sport in terms of color pets um lighting fixtures and what we wanted uh businesses to look like and now to say well we're going to allow these you know kind of cheap I guess looking uh units to be flown at any time uh kind of you know goes against what we were trying to do and becomes counterproductive I think not only that but I think once you allow one then another then another then another and pretty soon you're going to have a uh a uh you know an abundance of these signs being handled being sh Community well if we're going to you know set policy and then I guess lead by example right I mean we can't have digital signs we can't have scrolling signs but yet our own municipal building has one we have a scrolling sign Highland State Bank I mean so well again needs to be adjusted but then it also needs to be enforced right I mean this is something where the compliance officer and the administration need to be moving forward on this and coming to us and saying you know one of our our newest businesses has contacted us and said we'd like to have this kind of sign and and it's predominantly seen in many communities can we make can we revise our ordinance on this way I think it needs to go right and that's well again that's why uh this is on the agenda today right to to have this discussion on whether or not we should uh allow it I mean yes I understand it's it's in there not to allow it but um trying to open it up for some kind of consideration um but like I said something that I wanted to bring up uh and to the council I've actually actually asked um Peter knight from the economic development committee to uh to look further into the signed ordinance so I'm sure Peter you have I know during comments I don't know if it's okay now for Mr Knight to talk on that excuse me mayor well Peter I know Peter and I'm sure he's has a strong feeling towards business and due to his position and due to his background but he doesn't have the responsibility of the elected official of the council corre so you know to take it to take countenance from that type of a situation uh you know it just what's happening is we're not enforcing the law the ordinance that the township had uh coming back and saying yes it would be nice to have businesses given more latitude what does it say that you know we're not enforcing it and now going down the street a little later on and going down the road that if you really want to get by this just don't don't go ahead and and uh abide by the ordinance and they'll change it to suit to suit your your situation I don't think that's the way we want it no no it's not but um I know this has been like I said it's been uh a topic for quite some time and uh that's why I fig we'd bring it to the table for a discussion that doesn't it doesn't mean it makes it right that you know that this stuff you know was was not enforced but but like I said we're here now um I mean I mean I can send out the enforcement tomorrow and I have that done but if if this is something that uh you know uh Council doesn't want to touch or maybe he needs to go in front of the man use board or you know um again it's a topic for discussion so um but as as far as enforcement that's that's another topic right so so that we can I can enforce that tomorrow so enforce it on ourselves well I think we should enforce it tomorrow like I I think it should be enforced I don't think we have to discuss it we have an ordinance that needs to be enforced we change it then it'll be enforced based on the changes you know what I I I don't think that's a discussion even am I missing something yeah I'm in agreement with Natalie if you have an ordinance have an ordinance why bother having an ordinance you don't doesn't matter to me if I drive down the street and see a sign like that just that's me yeah but if you have an ordinance of course or change the ordinance so and oh that's why we're having a discussion we haven't changed it yet so it needs to be enforced so aren't we in violation of the ordinance ourselves right yes you are okay so well we didn't put that sign up though did we no but I mean as a Township so then I mean are we gonna find other folks and not ourselves you know what I mean yeah I don't think we can find our I know you understand what I youut power off to it yeah we could set the power off to it in solidarity yeah I I I just don't think it's right to I agree I totally agree I I certainly think you can do that but the sign does serve a purpose the scrolling sign you know the digital sign however purpose as well however you know I think at some point we have to recognize that there's a there is a a strat you know a a a stratum on this certain ones are good other other types to me look cheap and and really don't belong in the township and uh that's not what we're trying that's not the type of look we're trying to convey and I think perhaps then what we might need to do now is to begin to establish some type of uh U you know revisions to the the current uh ordinance so that we don't throw out the baby with the bath water so to speak but I'm for revisions I'm definitely for rev revisions and getting feedback from the economic development committee and from our business owners and from zoning um and we need to you know update some things you know if someone wants to have a scrolling sign maybe there's a different process for that you know like it has to be in you know go through a review board through land use or something rather than your regular business sign um you know I think that might make sense because you know Banks they always not always but typically historically Banks do have the date the the weather you know the temperature or something so maybe we have a special um you know process for that but I think generally this is a it's a confusing ordinance when you read through it you read through all the definitions right right and you read through all the things that are prohibited and and then you're trying to go back and forth between the definitions and what's prohibited and it's a pretty long list yes prohibited and if it's not mentioned it's prohibited so it's it's um I think it's it's difficult so I would I think it would make sense to revise it but I think just going back to I'm concerned that we're not enforcing it so I think getting to the root of that and making sure that things are enforced equitably throughout our Township for all of the businesses and like Jessica said we're we're in violation of our own ordinance yeah yeah so I needs to be cleaned up and it seems like it to me right like I yeah I'm sure there's different types of different names of signs since you did it pat right like it's been so no absolutely ABS those feather signs are you know since the invention of uh um Amazon and online printting you can get those signs you know I could probably order one right now on Amazon and absolutely yep um break neck is there in somebody's yard yeah yeah literally I could probably order one right now have it tomorrow how does that apply to private citizens too that's what I wanted I meant to ask that you know you can't start you know people can't have I didn't know the flags on their property I mean that's just okay so it's allowed on your property well I I mean it's it still falls under zoning it still falls under zoning people have FL I have Flags in my property right you have a little welcome summer flag or American flag or I have this guy I mean I don't or you got the guy at the how about how about the uh Christmas ornaments up things I mean I would love to ban those knows I think you know generally it's considered that what we're talking about our signs for commercial use yeah and to extend it into private residential you know becomes very uh yeah know yeah punitive if you want to call it that and the first then the first thing it should be done is it should be it should say commercial signs not just signs yeah that should be number one then and the enforcement person may not understand that it's commercial only yeah it says permitted zones nonresidential oh okay some of them yeah well like it depends on the sign like a a political sign can be all the sandwich lines are non-residential right opening non-residential it's stated in that yeah maintenance garage sale so um as as enforcement right we we'll have to you know set enforcement um but what do we recommend taking it back to uh the EAC and land use board and uh let them review it and because there's other things too like roof signs um there's uh Grand Opening signs like I think 30 days for a grand opening is just ridiculous I think it's it should be a lot longer than that um you know are there any as a business owner it's it's uh extremely stressful trying to get your name out there trying to say hey I'm I'm open I'm here you know I y so it's you know please put yourself in their shoes um I I've been there and uh it's tough I you know but we also have to you know prepare for the way our community looks as well so no I I agree with that mayor defin I think there has to be a balance somewhere yeah I there's a balance but again like so it's that's why I said for the enforcement you well you might have a business owner who looks at the ordinance and follows the rules and doesn't and then you have someone else who doesn't and that's not balanced either right like as far as you know equit treating businesses equitably I just mentioned to the to um our clerk about loc other uh neighboring towns what their sign ordinances so that might be helpful to us to take a look and see if anyone's recently revised their ordinance or has you know maybe some information we hadn't thought about that might be helpful yeah absolutely I I I said I think it's a combination of yeah of what other towns do what what can we do to you know what other towns do I think is something you can talk about but every Township has its own character and you know Vernon is continuing to develop its character right now we are known as an you know an agrarian type Community with with tourism and uh and uh leisure activities uh I I would say that the way to handle this is is for the council to begin to uh to work towards uh you know revising this and gaining input from people but ultimately it's the council's responsibility to bring this to the floor in perhaps in a different form recognizing that what what's happening you know there are a lot of different programs a lot of different projects that are going to be happening in a very very short period of time and uh I think we all know what we're talking about in terms of you know these building projects and everything and we certainly don't want to do anything that's going to create a problem with them I agree I agree would would you would somebody like to work uh two of you like to work or one of you would like to work with me uh and you know going through this as a revision I'll work on it okay who's that Jessica Natalie that's me Natalie Natalie okay thank you Natalie Brad yes you asking me a question or asking you if you just honestly p just I don't have don't have the time I understand no problem I barely have the time but I'm how about Mr uh I'd be glad to work with Natalie if if necessary if she she like some assistance on this so we can do that okay all right um next one is Mayor's salary um Bill we had asked you and Jessica I guess about a month two months back to provide us some with information and some uh statistics regarding the neighboring communities and and what the comparative communities have in terms of the type of government and the salaries they not a presentation but we've got some facts here so Brad I don't know if you got a copy that pass one down there a copy for the mayor there yes the attorney has one already yes yeah so the first thing we did was just some definitions and checked out uh what a f form of government is and I'll just read this portion to youner act four basics mayor counsel Council manager small municipality mayor council administrator and two procedures by which the voters of M municipality adopt one of these so the ACT provides many choices for communities with preference for a strong executive and Professional Management of Municipal Affairs 21% of municipalities in New Jersey including the four most popular cities Newark Jersey City Patterson and Elizabeth all governed under provisions of the Fall act more than half of all New Jersey residents reside in municipalities with Falon act so more than half of the residents but not more than half of the towns because they're the most populated towns that have the f falona as a result we're the only Falon town in sus County as well all ful regardless of particular form citizens enjoy the right of initiative and referendum which is very important meaning that proposed ordinances can be introduced directly by the people without action by the local governing body so if the residents of Vernon really understand that you have a lot more power than you thought the right is exercised by preparing a conforming petition signed by 10% of the registered voters who turned out in the last general election in an odd even year the most recent General Assembly Election is the odd even year once the petition is submitted the local governing body can vote to pass the requested ordinance and if they refuse it is then submitted directly to the voters so it gives it gives people who were in The Minority party more of an opportunity than you've got a highly Democratic town this is a nonpartisan type of government if you have a town that was heavily Conservative then it would benefit the more liberal people faer because they can then get a mayor or they can put people on the seat when they didn't have a chance it's just the way it goes in New Jersey because it's a blue state so of all the towns in New Jersey there are 564 municipalities and uh and 121 have Falkner Act of some form which is a dominant type of uh government 140 towns with town government Council and president have no mayor so 140 towns are operating without a mayor so I uh looked at the various on the last page of the handout it it there's a there's a graph and that happened to be for Union County and what that shows is that the disparen is tremendous on the the cost or the pay scale for the mayor that's what this was all about because at the time we had our budget meeting and a discussion the mayor asked for a raise we then said there was a discussion last year and it was too early in our process there new council members Bill I just want to just correct you I don't mean to I didn't ask for a raise I I budgeted for the potential because of the the conversations that were led by Council stating that they were going to fix the S so we have to budget for it and that's that's all I did was budget for the potential as your budget pres and we rejected and so we in fact but we did promise to look at it that's what this is all about that's why we're having this discussion so I'll just read you some of the statistics of Which towns do what so that you can see where we are on that that chart from Union County which is not Susi County obviously it was just one that was posted in where the research it's all over the place from Elizabeth to uh towns that have zero for the mayor so let's just give you some of the facts here the in June this June the average hourly pay for Mayors is $30.60 an hour that's in New Jersey nationally is $32 an hour so we're in as a state within the national average New Jersey is 22nd out of 50 states in May oral pay the top 10 include Ed uh the large cities that I spoke about from Patterson Trenton Newark Atlantic City and they go from $150,000 down to $65,000 top 10 Vernon our mayor is working for $16.48 an hour Ocean City so we did a sampling across the across the board Ocean City mayor makes 40,000 as seven council members at 20,000 each there's 13,000 elected officials in the state and 560 Mayors so four towns without a mayor Summit High income area zero for the mayor Winfield also Union County a dollar Jersey City 148,000 Westfield $1 Lyndon 67,000 and there's 41,000 people in Lyndon lanefield 50,000 people mayor makes $35,000 raway 20,000 and they have a full-time administrator for 72,000 Rosel their mayor makes 20,000 full-time administrator for 92,000 mayor Vernon is the only Susy County with a mayor councel with a faler form of government so the other Susy County towns that do not have Falkner we have a small town and over their mayor makes $379 Andover Township not endover burrow they have $4,295 for the mayor and the clerk administrator makes 111,000 monteu 3,000 people the the mayor makes 3,000 and the Clark makes 56 Sparta the mayor was making 4 $4,050 in Sparta They just added a new form over there where they manager working 30 hours a week in Sparta makes 150,000 so you can see that the manager is running the town and the mayor makes $4,000 wage mayor makes $6,000 Frankfurt $3,640 and the Clark runs the town for 60,000 Lafayette $2,868 the clerk makes $40,000 Stillwater 3796 and the clerk makes 45 burough of Sussex $1,499 and the clerk makes 65 only last three to go Sanderson Byrum 3500 Byam which is a fairly populated area down on Route 206 pays their mayor $3500 they pay a manager 101 and a clerk 75 Green Township mayor gets zero Clark gets 59 Breeden 32 100 and the clerk get 57 and and then uh I had spoken to our attorney Matt because he's the mayor of Bridgewater and I just spoke to his assistant I told me I mentioned it so he as the mayor of Bridgewater makes $15,000 each Council me member makes seven and the council president makes eight so you can see from all this information that it's across the board there's no real Rhyme or Reason in my opinion that we have to take anything that's taking place here it's really up to the people in Vernon of all those numbers we're amongst the highest because we have two highly compensated people who are running our town we have a business administrator and we have a c CFO and those two together are about $240,000 and then you have a mayor at $30,000 so where's the Ballance who's responsible for what is really the question and how much can you afford and a town that has 24,000 residents so uh those are those are a lot different numbers than any other town in cesis County so that kind of lays the framework of where we are and what has to be discussed if we come up with any plan to change the compensation for any of our people thanks for doing all that research bill yeah thanks thank you I take no credit I did nothing okay sorry B and then Brad uh called me yesterday and he he told me of a recent happening in our neighboring Town yeah West Milford two or three weeks ago kind of a a different situation down there they uh just voted to approve the mayor as a full-time employee subject to pension and benefits for $130,000 a year however um from what I gathered and this was just through uh articles that I read online I haven't spoken to anybody in in West Milford for my understanding they've been looking for quite some time for but they call as a Deputy Administrator and uh the CFO just went down to 30 hours a week with a pay cut so the mayor has been doing the Deputy Administrator some CFO responsibilities and being a mayor but the the real odd part of it was that every year the council's going to vote if the mayor is either a full-time or part-time mayor that is to I hope nobody from West Milford is listening but to me that's just going to be a cluster because you I think you have to go one way or the other you can't be go flip fling back and forth every single year that's CRA um but that's the situation that's over there but again they've had a tough time finding a deputy assistant um so the mayor has assumed those roles uh of the Deputy assistants so they're not and and I'm sorry I don't mean to okay I a question the uh if if I'm not mistaken I think the deputy assistant salary in their ordinance is$ 135 or $140,000 a year and it was stated by one of the council members that um the mayor is making less than that and she if she wanted to she could quit being a mayor and they would hire as an administrator pair the top dollar so so yeah so it's kind of a it's kind of a really weird situation over there so the mayor's salary then doesn't exceed what that Administrator salary so it's right they're yeah and that mayor's doing a two what they're saying is two jobs the mayor's job and then that and part of the CFO responsib part of the CFO responsibility right then I guess the key word is stien rather than salary if we a stien position like we are we get paid $3,000 for this job yeah and we're not employees we're no benefit F and no pension no Pion right so was a big difference and uh so that's the report I don't have a conclusion it's across the board and it's uh not easy and you really have to take a look at all your personnel your needs when we used to have the council form of government here there were five people on the council and they elected one of them to be the council president there was no mayor so the council president had the title mayor for that year and that's how the government was run and then the the key person in the town was a business administrator and town manager and town manager yes yeah we went through a number of them some good some bad yeah we did so we're not we're not terribly off right with with our stien then we're really not far off because it seems like you know I just did a quick look here with my paper and the majority of these salaries are under 40,000 there's there's three that's spiked up right over but the majority way way under or way under 40 you know so we're can I ask where where you pulled this data from I mean I see here Katie Katie Lannon yeah CH was a Wikipedia encyclopedia yeah well well wikip is is being wrong it's constantly wrong right so I know for an example I think even the year Veron Township was uh established is and that date is wrong so you know it's uh it's not information no it's just even in the print out I handed you I made a couple as Vernon Township is listed under two different uh I think always I wonder if it's because it had us both because we changed right I think the question always is right what does ver Township want what does it need right does it need a part-time mayor or full-time May yeah how many hours a week do would you say you work ah geez um well I don't I don't come in at uh 8:30 um but I always come in a little later because I do like that time uh when everyone kind of leaves to kind of get some things done without the phone ringing or uh you know being disrupted but I would say easily 50 60 hours I mean I know like thing you could you calculate into weekends and uh I do I do go into a lot of you know uh committees um I do sit and and a lot of them I think it's important because I think some of the work that our volunteers um you know I I think you know if if are not partake in in not being like involved but at least sitting through it just just to see what goes on you know sometimes I know some of the complaints I think with the the edac was uh was that kind of falls on deaf ear sometimes so I I find it to be important to to be part of those those meetings um same with the fire department too I try to get to some of their meetings just to see what what what's going on hearing and understanding and and also show support so um and then you know weekend events and things like that right so I mean that's not mandatory but um you know I think that's that's what makes the difference in in on what Mayors uh should be I think um you know especially when you represent the town right you want to you want to partake in a lot of a lot of these different things but um so yeah it's it's it's kind of hard to put a number I know um I know I've heard Harry shortway Howard barell uh talk about the uh the long hours too um and you are on call 247 um yes I'm not responding to uh you know the fire but uh but I do have to have my phone I have to always be available I mean I I would think that uh you you need someone to be on call you need someone to be available I mean certain things have to be decisions have to be made and you you're supposed to have knowledge of of things that go on so um you know it's uh it's yeah it's around the clock pretty much so it's hard to put a exact number so mayor the the position that you hold was one that was desired by the community previous to this it was a Township manager was an appointed mayor by the council and at some point the issue became accountability and they wanted and an a directly elected mayor and the issue for you know a fauler form of government uh was brought forward and um and and and resolved with you know with a a new form of government I think what's happened now is that uh the government that we have have is also the government that is used by other types of community just for the sake of it I I I mentioned Newark because frequently in any type of uh question that appears before a judge about what the council can do and what the mayor can do they always site you know Newark sharp James versus the City Council of Newark but what they fail to what Faulkner fails to recognize is there are different forms of compensation certainly the level of compensation in Newark versus Vernon yet they're the same type of government is predicated on the amount of Revenue and and there's where we have our problem uh I would venture to say if your salary the salary for that office were placed before the the uh the the taxpayer probably wouldn't change and I think it's going to have to be done by some type of uh mechanics prescribed by an existing Council and graduated over a period of time uh I think Brad came up with an idea previously but he also reflected on it that you know if this weren't done you know the type of income is not going to be something that uh a person who has to raise a family and wants to do this can do you know and provide the oversight on a regular basis so you need a business administrator and that's where I think the issue becomes to raise the salary of the mayor do you decrease the salary of the business administrator or do you decrease the responsibilities of the mayor in terms of what is expected so uh well I think it's it's important to understand that you know some of the the things that the uh the mayor does is um is much different than say the business administrator some things overlap but um but there's a lot of different things that uh mayor does and and um and I've always said this is I see you know a lot of times you know people want to come in and they don't know our former government right so so they don't know about the business administrator and and what he or she's role is so I think um you know they they wanna they want they want a mayor right they want to they want to see they want to uh speak with with a mayor uh and it's constant that we get uh you know escalations um you know from the residents or are sometimes even staff too but we again they that's something that should be you know well that part at least the staff is supposed to go to uh to the business administrator but um you know like I said there's there's a uh there's a difference in the roles um and I and I think when when I hear well if you have a full-time business administrator you don't need a full-time mayor um I think that's been proven not to be true um throughout the years right we've again we've heard from uh previous Mayors um it's the same thing it's you know 50 60 hours uh it it's it's non-stop so it's not just something that one mayor is working all these hours the other one's not so um so I think Veron needs to decide right so what do they want a full-time mayor or you know or a part-time Mayer so I think that's uh that I think that should really be you know the key in deciding uh such a thing and and um and you know again just with the responsibility um that goes along with it you know um is said I have a complete well not a complete list um I have a lot of stuff that I that I am working on um that the reason why I'm working on because I am working in a full-time capacity um part-time capacity you could probably scratch 95% of the stuff off your list so you know that's that Vern needs to decide right to do they do they want the full-time mayor or part-time mayor you know so uh I think with a part-time mayor you won't get you know a lot the things done I like I said I think the the business administrator is you know she managing day-to-day operations um but uh you know outside of that I mean that's again that's a a very long day to begin with right so um I think uh outside of that you know requires uh additional help and this CFO was you know I don't know where the CFO came into into this with um you know I know some municipalities I think well we did have our CFO acting as a business administrator I think at one time before Tina came aboard um but uh and I think West Milford right West Milford was using the CFO one of the townships they just their CFO just took a pay cut and responsibilities but they didn't expand as to as to why kind of like with Dell right was was getting extra money when she was acting as a business I would just be very very very careful about speaking about specific Personnel just noes and all that just no understood yeah we're yeah we're not gonna Deep dive uh into that um but um but those are those are the facts right that that's out there but um I have a question I have and I know people are going to be like oh you ran with him this is why you're saying this not it's not genuinely like the things you're doing in I can tell that you care I see the initiative my question is I don't even see the point in having a part-time mayor we're paying somebody $34,000 a year to be what a figurehead I mean I think if you're shake hands and kiss babies I don't for me I know everybody's gonna say it's because I've ran with you and because we're friends that's not the case genuinely and I think people know I've sat up here and I disagreed with you very publicly before for me I would like somebody to be in this town as invested as you are I think we should pay a real salary that's my opinion I know many people disagree but I think this town could look very different in 10 years with somebody who cares as much as you do if even somebody like you that's it I mean yeah like I said I I don't think uh you know as one always said no one's getting rich working for bur in Township but uh you know um yeah I think there's there should be some some level of of I think it opens up um you know it opens up the door for uh more candidates run yeah um you know so uh the only problem I have with that Jess I don't mean to disagree with you is I've always I've always I I don't disagree that it it uh somebody's putting it an awful lot of time I don't disagree with that at all the only problem I have is when you go ahead and offer a higher salary that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get somebody who going to share more right or know more you know and and it being an elected position if you were to go ahead and bump the salary up and then you had you know five people run for mayor and two or three of them are throwing their name in a half because they could make you know a decent coins right in their Hometown they can get elected and then for one year you can't do anything with that person if they don't show up because you can't even recall them for a year they're an elected person they're an elected official so to me it's it's it's a very it's a double-edged sword on both sides of it because I you know there may very well somebody out there who is Young and has a family who live in town and cares very deeply back to town but they have a job that pays you know three four five times the amount that what the mayor's position pays and they're not going to go ahead and do it and and that's the drawback of keeping it down so I I am I am so divided on this issue I go back and forth you know well every time I discuss this sorry I didn't mean no that's fine I I I thought about that too because if you know if it were somebody who was doing things in the town that I didn't appreciate didn't like didn't align with then I wouldn't be like no why are we paying them all this money right right I guess we could revise it every year like the we have seen a Common Thread that if a person moves like they did in West Milford from one position to the next there's certifications that have to go with that move it isn't just oh here's here's an extra $80,000 it's it it does replace somebody else or it does result in movement of other Personnel in many cases yeah and even to go you know we're not the school board but even our current superintendent when he got the job he wasn't certified but he was given time to get certified and he certified now and that that was one of the requirements but there are no certifications for mayor no but he took over the ba some of the ba things and must she did yeah so I don't does anybody else have anything else to say suggestions recommendations if not I I think this you know we kind of find ourselves in a position of you know so what do we do uh uh certainly there's uh you know a recognition that at $16 an hour as as uh Bill said that Mr Higgin said that you know that's what we're paying the mayor but then again that fact was already known when when the elected official chose to run for office sorry is it $16 an hour based on a 40 Hour Work Week yes so then it's essentially less really yeah right certainly if you're 247 which the mayor probably would be uh I I think it's worthy of further discussion but I just don't think we're going to be able to solve that problem tonight and I think we're going to probably need further you know discussion among ourselves in terms of how we want to approach this I have a question um you you were involved in this 10 years ago when this came up yeah different times right and both times when that happened it ended up petition was filed ended up on on the ballot for a boote so is can a second question be put on the ballot in November to ask the the community do you want a full-time mayor um or does that have to start with an ordinance from us I guess that's more of a legal question than a pack question I don't think it has to start with an ordinance I think that's a remedy if the ordinance doesn't go through you could but I think if you wanted to just do a valid question you could you could pass a a resolution for that so you just pass a resolution for yeah and and also the amount of money that would be paid yeah right yeah right that's good whether you like it or not if an ordinance was done with a salary increase it's going to end up on the ballot yeah because we're we're we're we're b a th% on that one because it's happened twice in the past yeah in these conversations go nowhere so maybe this that is the best path forward well Pat what did when they did the change of government right what did they offer uh the mayor over 12 years ago is there an offer and the ballot I can only tell you what happened no the the initial I changed it when the type of government was established and prior to being sworn in the council was at Liberty to develop salaries and STP and or stiens for themselves and salary for the mayor and it was the only time when that particular salary for the mayor could be uh approved without having to go before any other go any other body or uh or the electorate and the uh the mayor at that time chose to accept $30,000 in the hopes of being able to uh prove that success would earn him a uh a greater salary and in but that didn't happen and whether or not it was because of the electorate or other other factors it just didn't happen and from that point on it's been a continuing battle and I think I think everybody who's lived in town for a period of time understands that and knows what's what went on so so was there was there an offer um was there numbers that were thrown around at that time but did the they rang well they ranged anywhere from from 125 to 70,000 the 125 was if I might recall was it came from a previous budget and then the 70 was proposed to the mayor by the council at that time as a starting point because there was no way that everybody felt that it would be approved by the electorate I mean let's let's let's be candid you know people don't like to pay taxes and any type of movement in terms of uh uh increasing you know responsibility yet uh um saving money by virtue of what's been done and then raising taxes it there is no there is no marriage on that and uh they they they just refus to accept that and I know at that time we had three state three straight years of of you know uh no taxes uh strong a strong identification with the the the governing body and it still would was not approved so oh I uh we could continue talking about this for the rest of the evening but I just don't think it's going to get us any place so I I think uh let's see if we can't develop a followup to this and uh see what we can do but uh unless anybody has any further comments I just have question if if if it's something that the council wants to put on the ballot what's the deadline for that to happen have to look that up yeah I can get back to you on that I think you have time yeah but I'll get back to you on that okay I can I can give you a date tomorrow okay Al righty thank you um moving on uh mayor's comments all righty I to have a few things um oh just uh congratulations to the class of 2024 um you know it was graduation last week right and uh I think it was like almost 100 degrees that day so that was up so uh you know again best of luck in uh on their next chapter uh in their life so um Thursday we had our senior citizen picnic which was a which a great event lots of food and dancing despite how hot it was but our strong seniors came out and uh they turned up the heat so uh even more so happy to see that these programs are actually being used so uh that evening I had uh I was invited and I had the honor of throwing out the first pitch at Skyland stadium and yes I did hit the home plate and uh from the mound so I didn't embarrass bur yeah well not coming that fast it's funny because the catcher was like I'm just worried I'm not gonna catch the balls I said you give me too much credit but uh no it was great and uh great and uh you know thanks to uh to the miners uh for having me out there it was great so uh on Friday um myself uh Heidi and DPW um we gave the intersection of uh on Route 94 uh a little facelift we haded some River Rock which was um donated by Valley Mason and a uh a new stone planter uh the planter was filled with flowers from Papa's Garden Center so again thank you Heidi for all your help and strength uh cu she got some muscles there uh DPW uh they came out there and uh you know we all uh you know we all grabbed the shovel and uh and and got it done and now thanks to Veron PD for uh you know uh keeping us safe while we're out there on that that little medium so um we are planning to do the uh 5:15 section um except for the river Riverstone um it's unfortunate because again the it was on the other medium was black top so the black top kind of fell in to the curb so we were able to clean out that section um and put some stone in there but being that this is concrete we can't do that so unfortunately we are stuck with the uh the red brick um but again we'll uh we'll try to dress it up with some new planners uh still taking some donations for the clock um and the planners um so I don't have an ET app again like I said we're still getting some donations um yesterday we had our first uh Veron car show um to help support our fire department in EMS this turned out better than we expected I think the I think we were like 50 60 cars and I think it was over a 100 so uh it was it was great and the best part really was was the community coming out and uh you know I I I kind of I'm guilt I pushed for this um I am a car guy uh so I did push for this but then I come to find out Michelle and Meg from our rec department they were uh they're C nuts too so uh it was good uh and uh I think there was about a thousand I think they said probably about a thousand people were there so that was uh and everybody I gotta say was really really having a good time and uh we definitely look into you know maybe have one in fall and uh if not uh we'll definitely have one next year I'm and definitely it was it was a great turnout and everyone really had a good sign so um also the well finally uh so I just thank you again Michelle and Meg um Kevin from Kevin Gil from the uh fire department he did the the thank you all of our volunteers everyone who came out and and helped us out with that that was uh that was great it was a lot of work um but but they got it done so so very happy and also the Veron for blocking traffic and directing traffic through so um it was good I didn't get any complaints on the traffic or anything so so was good and uh finally we did our audit report I guess is uh is out there so uh you know thank you to denell and her department for keeping the town's finances in track and you know I think there was just a couple little things on there uh tax leans so hopefully uh we can get that resolved uh at least by next year's order reports so that's all my comments oh one other thing uh this Wednesday we have the senior citizens Olympics so from soon C from all over the the county are coming participate in these Olympics um which is going to be held at Maple Grange and 2022 Vern took the gold so hopefully we again so I'm really really excited for our seniors and I'm I'm rooting for them I'll be there so I'm looking forward to it so pting know what though in High Lakes I'm actually considered a senior citizen but uh they're awesome so so looking forward to it but so hopefully everyone uh you know you guys can can attend so uh and rud our uh our counsil so that's all I got thank you guys thank you very much thank you all members of the council have received um I'm sorry uh moving to public comments may I have a motion to open the floor for public comments moved moved by Jess Mrs de benedetto is there a second second it seconded by Mrs bueri all in favor signify by saying I I opposed motion carries the floor is open to the public for Prem minute comments on agenda items only anybody wishing to approach the uh to comment to the council please bring you know come forward and let us hear you EO might have to mute himself can you mute hold on just a second you're good okay okay okay Peter KN pleas FY Lake um good evening um could I possibly request three minutes per discussion topic no no okay figured that so I'll make I'll make two extremely short um on the subject of solicitor licenses let's just cut to the Chase and not allow it um there have been over many many years there are firms that solicit uh Paving Roofing and they they take deposits from people and don't show up uh personally I don't want anybody knocking on my door um without scheduling the time with me so I don't even like my my family showing up the door um so that's that uh on the sign ordinance the uh about and I take exception about the comment about uh me being allowed uh as the chairman of the economic development advisory committee um that I really don't have a u I forget the legal term but I don't have a a vested U responsibility as an advisor to the mayor uh certainly my committee's advice should be entertained uh the mayor came to us a couple months ago and said um I'd like you to take a look at the sign ordinance and we guess what we said that that was on our agenda so over the last couple of months each of our members um spent and I have to say probably more than an hour each looking at this and having two months of conversations um we're prepared that by this time next month uh we will present to the council our recommend ations um uh you know so typical whether a municipality state federal or even a corporation the idea is to tweak something well you know we're Beyond tweaking that ordinance if you were to go out and site uh give citations for um the ordinance you'd there's actually an or U an ordinance that says you have to maintain signs well I can show you a lot of signs there are there are signs that wouldn't be approved if they came to the township and asked in advance so uh like so many things you you don't try to tweak something you take a look which we have been doing and um we have come up with a list of recommendations some of it is just a consolidation the you were looking at the ordinance tonight you know how many pages there are y there's some redundancies there's question marks after you read something so um I'm sorry your time is up my three minutes are up I want to talk about the mayor set there's open public comments at the end now this isn't can I assist her tonight I'm looking forward to that report thank you good evening lson come to this this one so that way they can see it yeah like why is it so low right and then want to go a couple of things if I may um starting with the solicitation law but where does that leave us for elections I mean this is a big election that's different they're not they're excused yeah they're excused this is for commercial purpose Only commercial okay it's F to be sure and religious too and what and the religious Christians also okay thank you um okay regarding the light ordinance I have to say I was I've read these things and I was I missed a meeting because the Board of Ed was scheduled the same day when they gave themselves the 9.65 without vote from the public so I was there and I missed a whole boatload of things that went on so I have to say I don't know where this thing with the lights came from I'm sorry what are what are you talking about lights oh the ordinance oh okay the lights um for starters I myself have to have lights in the backyard my house has been robbed twice I back to Woods I have a dog that has been sculped repeatedly and apparently the only way that that doesn't happen is if you have lights outside um you know the bear is out there I don't know why we would try to infringe on people's rights to put a light on their own property you own the house you should be able to flip the lights on when you'd like if someone doesn't like it they have blinds for that but I think that is quite an quite an intrusion on someone's personal space to tell them that they can't use lights on their property so I think that should really be reconsidered um if you want to ban something ban that crom being sold in town but that's not on the agenda in reference to to um the limo Bill like does this does this deal with uh Uber drivers as well just limos do we have an overabundance of limo drivers here I kind of feel like we're starting to get really heavy-handed and targeting independent workers we have been giving out licenses for that um for a very very very long time and there's a fee in our ordinance for it but we don't have anything in our ordinance for licensing we only have a fee and what that does is it it m we make sure that the licenses are registered that's a state license isn't it they're ex inspected by the police um so that you know we're we don't have an unlicensed um bar riding around would it have Library plates on it library or or limousine anybody could put plates or I believe I don't think that that's you're not in your head is that true see a screwdriver and you can get a New Jersey license plate that says that says' be be surprised yeah it's it's pretty I kind of feel like here we go I mean that sounds like another INF frer I feel like a lot of rights are getting chipped away at three years and we don't have so what happens if the limo driver drives through our town because the pathway to West Milford is is closed for an accident they they're they're parking in our town oh they're parking here yes okay okay all right thank you for clarifying that and then lastly if I could have just one quick suggestion regarding the mayor salary we have a CFO that works in three capacities perhaps if we reduce that position down to a part-time position or stien we'd be in good shape and we'd have the money to spend where where we'd like to spend it thank you hey and I I want just comment the the lights on your property you have every right to light up your property like Yankee Stadium the thing is um it's it's about lighting up your neighbor's property lighting up your neighbor's house or having a a a light that can be blinding as you're driving down the road um in in a in a main you know on a on a public road um it's not about having your lights in your PR that's at 91 macul degeneration is legally blind she needs lights not on a main road but if you're saying pointing at someone's house that's one thing if you saying people who need lights my mother needs lights otherwise she could fall and get seriously injured no that's not what that was this you can light it up as like it needs to be tightened up so it doesn't say that so it doesn't sound like it's you know that we can't have a certain volume or luminous luminance or whatever the word was of Lights I I think it's it's unfair say that that's not what it was put out for it's not not say you can't light up your unintended consequences that's what we always get we write it one way oh we made a mistake and here we got somebody else that's responsible so it's it's uh and I think it's it's even listed as as a nuisance um yeah maybe we can yeah I think we're thank you this isn't a discussion time though so thank you what what is he saying thank you all right thanks but and that was not what what it wased for anyone else wishing to come forward y yep uh Scott cassle from Glenwood uh just regarding the mayor stien or salary or whatever um first of all on the mayor I pretty much agree with Miss Ben D benedetto on everything she said about the mayor um but you know I'm never for increasing admin costs I think they're the biggest form of V that we get um easy to enact but you can never resend them um and but you know that being said I voted for this mayor so I didn't vote for the CFO I didn't vote for the administrator so for me um you know he's the guy that I hold accountable so he's the guy I want to be representing my town so my thought was I mean could there not be an in-depth review of those three roles the the CFO the administ Ator and the mayor and then we look to see what can be reduced or what overlap can be eliminated and we reduce those roles similar similar to what West Milford did um not the one-year review thing which is insane you mayor said every year but um and you reduce say the cfo's role I mean to me I'm not I'm not in the no but I'm not sure why we need um and administrator you know in this town of our size plus you know plus a full-time mayor um I did read a uh an article which was pretty interesting it was a few months ago but it was saying that businesses are more apt to uh invest or relocate or build in towns that have a strong mayor and a single point of contact that they can they can handle because they find that things go through better with that so and I was agreeing with that before I even read the article so it was interesting that I read that so you know this is this is the guy that I want representing Us in this you know and I think if we have to cut back on say the CFO position make that a part-time position um or whatever it is to to pay the mayor what he's deserved you know we can kind of offset the cost with with something like that um I just don't know that three full-time positions for a town of our size is really realistic you know maybe it is but that's just my thinking um question would be is it possible that so say we increase the mayor's salary whatever when it's no longer mayor Rossy and we go for a new election could there not be a base salary that it gets reset to or is that a huge pain in the neck you have 30 off salary ordinance that becomes you're not paying the person you're paying the office yeah yeah because the thought was you know then we could go through the same process and you're kind of reviewing everything as opposed to just the guy comes in and and makes a ton of money so um well not a um but that was pretty much it I mean I'm really happy with this mayor um I'm all for him getting an increase but I do think we need to offset we can't just continue to expand all of our our costs so thanks yeah thank you is there anyone else wishing to come forward hi I'm Heidi l s Veron I just heard what I wanted to say so sorry what was Scott Scott Scott I agree with him totally it all makes sense and um everybody who's got a problem and every mayor mayor that I've encountered um approaches the mayor with their problems I've never heard anybody says I'm going to go to the business administrator but he represents you he represents the government but he really works with the people for what needs to be done he's the communicator of the town and he represents the town and in other ways but I agree with Scott 100% thank you thank you there anyone else wishing to come forward it doesn't look that way Pat thank you very much thank you Brad seeing no one coming forward may I have a motion to close the floor to the public I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs bueri is there a second second second Mr Higgins all in favor signify by saying I I I opposed motion carries all members have received a copy of the bills list if you have any comments any questions please raise them it's a rather short one so um the question I had one question on uh ordinance 2410 the the three resolutions of 2483 184 and 185 are those items that are in that ordinance I'm and the bills list oh bills list I'm sorry I thought you were on the ordinances sorry no problem I'm tired the meeting to be about that one well so is there anything else on on any other comments on the bills list yeah we can move on thank you uh all members have received the copies of the minutes of June 10th regular meeting May I have a motion to put those minutes on the floor for consideration mov moved by Mr Higgins is there a second M benedetto second thank you thank you um any additions Corrections deletions nope seeing none I'll ask for a roll call please council member buer abstain benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president gudo yes thank you adoption of es we are doing or looking at ordinance 247 if you have any desire to have any of these ordinances uh separated for consideration uh please let let me know before so I can separate them 2407 an ordinance amending chapter 5 article 16 of the municipal code of the township of Vernon historic preservation ordinance 24-8 council president rudo excuse me these are ordinances for um public hearing I'm sorry these are for public hearing I'm sorry that's okay they have to be um okay yes thank you um may I have a motion to place this ordinance on the floor for a hearing moved moved by Mr spart is there a second second seconded by Mrs Mrs bueri um the floor is open all in favor all in favor I I I the floor is open to the public for discussion of this ordinance is there anyone wishing to come forward and discuss this ordinance yes yes hello again um I'd like to know exactly what the ordinance says the ordinance if you'd like I can read it into the record or you can be given a copy of it but um read it into the record I guess okay you like that Mr Mr knif thank you an ordinance amending chapter 5 article 16 of the municipal code of the township of Vernon whereas ordinance 21-04 abolished the historic preservation commission and whereas the township Council of the township Vernon has determined that it is in best interest of the township to reinstate the historic preservation commission now therefore be it ordained by the township Council of the township Vernon that the code of the township of Vernon is hereby amended as follows section one 5-13 boards bodies commissions and committees the following boards and bodies of the township are hereby continued L use board as set forth in section 330- 6 environmental Commission open space board reserved historic preservation commission re this is changed from reserved this Recreation Commission committee I'm sorry Municipal Alliance committee and senior citizens committee section two historic preservation commission there is hereby created in and for the township of Vernon a town a commission to be known as the historic preservation commission thank you keep going you keep going if you like no I don't think we need to do that Pat but I do have some questions on this the question is first on um want to close uh council president public I'm sorry close the meeting to the public if no one else is wishing to come up so moved moved by m s seconded by Mrs bueri all in favor signify by saying I I opposed motion carry thank you um may I have a motion to to place this motion has been made um place this on the floor for consideration for a vote by the council I'll make that motion mov by Mrs buer is there a second second by Sparta seconded by Mr Sparta uh thank you very much any questions or comments no I do uh on page on page two three number three uh all commissions um commissions minutes is wait a minute U basically the histo the historical survey material carry out oh to recommend sites um to rec I'm sorry basically this brought up the the question of what about the existing uh artifacts and funds from the previous committee that was held are there funds I'm sorry you're saying there's funds from the previous committee were there I'm question oh okay well that's we have to look um to see if they're they're were funds and then where were those funds were they pushed off to uh were they put somewhere else or are they still sitting at some fund somewhere else right and and the what about the disposition of the artifacts I I don't know where that where that stuff is well if are we going to I know the Historical Society has uh artifacts but I don't know if the preservation does um so I I I I know that Historical Society has a storage unit that contains okay a lot of the artifacts there are no funds there are no funds in that account and there's nothing for this year yeah so thank you um and the uh number 10 on on duties says to report at least annually to the Lan to the planning board on the state of historic preservation in the township and recommend measures to improve same can we change that to the land use board since we no longer have a planning board yeah you'd have to make the motion to amend uh to change that language is that Amendment such that it would require reintroduction uh no I don't believe so thank you okay can we make pass this ordinance with that Amendment consider yes thank you so with that anybody else have any comments on this all right all may I have a roll call please council member bueri yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yesc yes thank you with that Amendment okay ordinance 24 09 0808 I'm sorry 08 um Capital ordinance providing for various improvements by the township of Vernon in the county of Sussex New Jersey appropriating therefore the sum of 160,000 and provid that such sum so appropriated shall be raised from Capital General Capital reserves and the capital Improvement front fund of the township may I have a motion to place that on the floor for consideration for public hearing public comment yes I make that motion buer motion made by Mrs bueri is there a second second by De benedetto Mrs de benedetto thank you seconded um roll call please we have we have to open I'm opening the floor to the public yeah all in favor hi hi oh has everybody commented yes okay is there anyone wishing to come up come and question this ordinance it doesn't look like it doesn't look like it thank you motion to close the meeting to the public I'll make that motion buer made by Mrs berer is there a second second by Mr Higgins all in favor signify by saying I I post motion carries to place 2409 on the floor for passage and consideration may I have a motion 2408 move by Mr Higgins I'll second it seconded by Mrs bueri thank you any question or comment on this ordinance I have a question it says improvements to for the fire department and the department of administration for total Improvement authorization of 160,000 is there an itemization of what those improvements are for the fire department and for the department administration my understanding that the the uh fire department uh is uh for interior uh corre you know uh Corrections or improvements in terms of President yes council president hey sorry I'm on I just wanted to um that's a different ordinance number oh I'm sorry yeah so um I did send around um a detailed list for the capital ordinance and the bond ordinance so for the fire department there's pager upgrades for 177,000 turnout gear for four Fire Departments of 67,000 and SCBA packs of 36,000 um then for the administration it's just the construction document archival that we spoke about during the budget um that's for 40,000 okay and for the the also for the um for the administration yeah that's for construction document archival okay thank you any other comments uh if if denell on so another words the first page that you gave us was for 2408 and the second page you gave us was for 241 okay all right thank you thank you no any other questions no if not roll call please council member bueri yes council member D benetto yes council member Higgins CC member yesc president rudo yes motion carries Bon nordon 2409 fond ordinance providing for the Improvement of the Highland Lakes fire department building in and by the township of Vernon uh in the county of Sussex New Jersey appropriating $15,750 therefore in authorizing the issuance of $100,000 bonds or notes of the township for financing such appropriation may I have a motion to open this uh place this on the floor for opening it to the public moved Sparta move by Mr Sparta is there a second second by bueri second by Mrs bueri um anyone wishing to all in favor signify by saying I I I opposed motion carries um is there anyone wishing to come forward and um comment on this or question this oh seeing no one coming forward uh I'll ask for a motion to close the forward of the public I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs Mrs bueri is there a second second Sparta second by Mr Sparta all in favor signify by saying I I I okay um like to place this motion this ordinance on the floor for the council to consider may I have a motion Higgins moov by Mr Higgins is there a second second benedetto second by Mrs de benedetto uh all in favor I'm sorry roll call please no this yes this is yes this is for placing it on the floor for discussion roll call I thought we did that no it's not for discussion a vote this yeah put on yep yeah this is for adoption by the council does the council have anybody to have any discussion on this no I don't have any questions no no okay thank you um roll call please council member bueri yes council member D benetto yes Council council member SCA yes council president rudo yes motion carries thank you um ordinance 24-10 Bond ordinance appropriating 3,4 83,84 authorizing the issuance of 2, 220,000 bonds or notes of the township for various improvements or purposes authorized to be undertaken by the township of Vernon in the county of Sussex New Jersey uh may I have a motion for place to sign the floor to open to the public to move Higgins motion made by Mr Higgins is second spart second by Mr Sparta uh all in favor signify by saying I I is there anyone wishing to come forward to speak to this matter seeing no one coming forward may I have a motion to close the for of the public move to benetta Mrs close by Mrs de benedetto is there a second second sparter second by Mr sparter thank you uh is there anyone wishing to come forward and and uh put this on the floor for consideration the council for passage talk yes the any comments you mean public comments you mean no the for comments by the council no one came forward on the public okay yeah no I don't have any comments anyone else yeah I have one question uh yes Dell Dell still on yes can be uh the parks for lighting at Veterans Memorial Park 200 I I thought last year was the last of the bonding of for that am I mistaken D can you unmute sorry I thought I was unmuted I apologize um no that last year was not the last one um and also last year when we went out for Bond it was over what we had originally um estimated okay so this will take care of another set of Lights um and we actually did just receive uh the recreation Grant from the state of New Jersey for $75,000 which will obviously reduce um the debt abortion of this once we do the chapter 159 so the the uh am I correct in that that was bonded over three years for three separate bonds I should say correct yes so it's three separate Bond ordinances we we broke up each project each year that's what I thought yeah I just wanted to make sure thank you thank you you're welcome roll call roll call vote please we I don't think we have a motion to adopt this uh yeah there needs uh we just need a motion to adopt first and then we can do the roll call okay I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs bueri is there a second second by Sparta second by Mr Sparta roll call please council member bushier yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president Roso thank you yes carries okay Mrs bueri this is becoming some ofat cumbersome uh because of I can't see who's making the motion here would you please resume the the count at 20 ordinance 2411 vice president oh okay you want me to to okay right ordinance 11 ordinance of the township of Vernon County of Sussex state of New Jersey addressing limousine licensing I have a motion to open the floor public comment please second move byto second by Sparta all in favor I any opposed okay the floor is open for public comment I want to make sure I'm right is this 2411 yes okay um could you tell me what this ordinance deals with in in limousine licensing um you can this ordinance was posted prior at at the original reading you can have a copy of it if you'd like but I'm not going to read it into the record okay well then uh I have a question regardless of whatever it says um my understanding is limousine licensing is a process uh of the state so if if the ordinance involves any other licensing from the the town um why would we do that is that is that all your question that's the question yeah okay and maybe the attorney can answer that quickly why we would want another layer of protection for our Township yeah it's my understanding um even though the state has its licensing requirements there's nothing prohibiting a town from adding additional license requirements uh it's not the same it would be it would be a license I I want to say something rhetorical that's the next step pizza delivery drivers maybe we should include those people have a license that was rhetorical I don't see any uh quite frankly any advantage to the town adding another ordinance that the state has already IR ired with fingerprinting background Etc so but all businesses in town require license right so essentially this is just another business in town requiring a license uh I I I don't know the top all businesses require a license but some I'm sure do it could be a limousine from Hamburg picking up a Vernon this is not this is not really a discussion between the the council and a on the ordinance okay thank you any other um public comments okay may have a motion to close the floor moved by Mr spart may have a second second by Mr H Higgins all in favor I opposed we have a motion to put ordinance 2411 on the floor moved moveed by m Mr Sparta second second by Miss de deetto any questions or comments by the council no Mr Peter he brings up a good point to me it's a revenue generator it's nothing more than that for govern it's all about any other comments I guess I just sorry and Peter I apologize for cutting into your time and answering asking a question when I should I pause when you guys talk okay I apologize um what is the delineation between license uh businesses that require license and businesses that don't is there a clear uh I would just say what you you've all heard councils in the past have put into an ordinance okay thank you anything else I'm good okay can I have roll call vote council member bushier yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins no yes council president rudo yes motion carries ordinance 2412 ordinance of the T of Vernon County of Sussex state of New Jersey amending chapter 374 titled nuisances Public Health to address exterior lighting standards may have a motion to open the floor for public comment move move by Mr Higgins may have a second second second by Mr Sparta all in favor I I I any opposed okay the floor is open for public comment on the lighting Yep this is the lighting thank you for you know that with me before I appreciate it um but I have to say I think it's very heavy-handed and it needs to either be tweaked seriously and brought into bounds it's it's improper to tell people what kind of lights they can have on their property and maybe to have some sort of mediation if someone's shining lights into one particular home or onto a busy Street maybe that's when you call them we have a meeting and try to mediate it but heavy-handed laws like this if they're just going the wrong way we already had judge strike down the property ordinance Property Maintenance ordinance if you can't have Property Maintenance ordinances how you gonna tell people they can't put lights in their y it's just it's just not making sense thank you are there any of the members of the public wishing to come forward I'm seeing n may have a motion to close the floor moved move by Mr Spartan have a second second second by miss benetto all in favor I any opposed motion to place ordinance 2412 on the floor moved Mr Sparta may have a second second second by Mr D um Mr Higgins um questions or comments about ordinance um I would like to comment uh you know I I understand I I'm not a fan of telling people what to do on their property so I I definitely understand that um the comments from the from the public um but it it does say illumination color which shall be distractive obliterate or obscure the view the ultraviolet strobic pulsating flashing or any or of any unnatural kind or create a public nuisance so it's not saying any lights it's saying lights that are pulsating creating a public nuisance it does it does really delineate that um it's it's not just saying you can't have any light on your property bug do that sorry ma'am I'm sorry a couple comments sorry well but I'm I'm yeah and I'm trying to yeah well I'm I'm trying to address your concerns because I understand it I definitely understand it and you know I have lights on my property I have um animals too dogs and and yeah Wildlife my property so I totally understand that but it it does say um you know it's designed to provide lighting intensity of 510 aluminum per square foot I I'm not an electrician so I don't know what that is but um it it does specify that we're looking at things that are distractive obliterates the view obscures the view strobic pulsating splashing unnatural or creates a public nuisance so those those um safeguards are are in the ordinance and you can't just mediate with someone you you can't the town can't do anything unless there's an ordinance because that's the law so that's that I just wanted to address that um with my comments does any other council member have a comment yeah I was going to vote against it until you just made your statement because it really does clear it it clearly it does Clearly say like we're just talking about a Nuance right that's again yeah we're talking about a nuisance got complaints that you know and it's been this has been going on for quite some time it's again it's not about having lights on your property it's it's you know it also stops you know someone from having a spotlight on your bedroom window right exactly exactly which would be highly inappropriate yeah and and and we've gotten complaints for that you know so that's what this would you know prevent it's not from you lighting up believe me my my backyard lights up like Yankee Stadium but and the last thing I would want is shining on someone's window you know I wouldn't want it but there are some people that that that do it you know unfortunately so you know everybody wants to uh not about you know creating laws that uh you know restrict people from from living you know their life it's it's about people wanting to live in peace um you know so okay all right that was the intent other questions or comments no okay roll call vote please council member bushier yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes carries you want me to continue Pat um on the resolutions so I can take care of that thank [Music] okay consent agenda resolution 24- 179 uh through 97 n 24 there you go 24-9 197 um you have any question on any of these particular resolutions and you would like to have them separated please tell me uh as I'm going through and we can separate them uh for vote to separate them for an individual vote thank you resolution 24179 and approval to submit a Grant application and execute a grant contract with the New Jersey Department of Transportation for the MC PE Road Improvement project resolution 24-180 resolution of the township of Vernon County of Sussex state of New Jersey authorizing the execution of a memorandum of understanding between Vernon Township Police Department and the land Health System Newton Medical Center to establish joint participation in the arrive together program to enhance and support response to certain Behavioral Health crisis calls resolution 24-11 chapter 159 resolution requesting approval of Revenue and appropriation amending the 20- 2024 budget as a revenue and appropriation of of uh $ 47,6 3564 resolution 24-1 182 resolution of the township of Vernon County of susc state of New Jersey authorizing the use of omni Partners formerly known as us communities National Cooperative resolution 24-1 183 uh 24-1 183 um resolution authorizing purchase of Schwarz a a sweeper and accessories through sourcewell National Cooperative number 0932 1-s swz through ha deart and Sun Incorporated resolution 24-1 184 resolution authorized ing purchase of dump body and accessories through sourcewell National Cooperative 080818 dhpi through Henderson Products Incorporated resolution 24-1 185 resolution authorizing purchase of freight liner 108 SD and accessories through sourcewell National Cooperative 080818 dhpi through Henderson Henderson Products Incorporated resolution 24186 resolution authorizing fireworks to be displayed on July 4th 2024 with the township of Vernon within the township of Vernon uh resolution 24-87 overpayment block 527 lot 338 Garcia resolution 24-18 88 refund overpayment block 106 lot 43 Humphries resolution 24- 1889 the resolution authorizing fireworks to be displayed on July 6 2024 with rain date 20 July 20th 2024 within the township of Vernon resolution 24-1 190 uh authorizing the use of Mars County cooperative price Council for the proposed improvements of uh VAR various streets 2024 20 resolution 24-1 191 resolution of the township of Vernon County of Sussex state of New Jersey amending resolution 23-1 237 specifically contracts for proposed improvements to Maple Grange Park resolution authorizing uh 24 uh 192 authorizing the use of Mars County cooperative pricing Council for resurfacing Maple Grange Park lower parking lot um resolution 24-1 193 authorizing the use of Mars County cooperative pricing Council for proposed improvements to various streets 2024 uh resolution 24- 1994 resolution of the author of authorizing Award of CC number1 d224 payroll processing vendor through the competitive Contracting process resolution number 195 refund for totally disabled veteran block 82 lot 14 Schwarz resolution 24-1 196 block 82 lot 14 Schwarz cancelling taxes for the total disabled veteran resolution 24-1 197 renewal of liquor licenses in the township of Vernon for 2024 2025 licensing term uh may I have a motion to place these on the floor for consider P can I have two two remove first before absolutely 24179 and 24 194 24194 and 179 179 very good um is there anyone else wishing to have any other uh resolutions removed hearing none can I uh have a a motion to place I'm sorry to uh Place resolutions 24-180 through 24-1 193 and resolution 24-1 195 through- 24-1 197 on the floor for approval I'll second it who Mr sparter yes yep sorry by Mrs bueri seconded by Mrs bueri any not roll call please council member bueri yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member sporta yes council president rudo yes motion carries moving to resolution number 24- 179 may I have a motion to place this item on the floor for consideration and discussion moved moved by Mr spart is there a second second second second by Mrs bueri um any comments questions on this uh yeah uh what is how much is the grant for and what is the road Improvement that's planned for this grant I then I may not but I I do have I check my email I don't I I do have the information somewhere they have it um so the road is MC Peak I believe actually I think I believe the resolution says MC Peak Road Improvement project y um the estimate I would have to look at the backup I actually did not receive the backup for this um but usually the dot grants are around 200,000 um that's what we've been awarded in the past anywhere between 190 and about 230 it depends on the road and what's the Improvement is it just Paving or yeah to repave that road yep okay you hold on a second maybe I can help you out BR yeah there was no support with it that's yeah all the other Road improvements had support with it uh and I assume I I don't have the I don't have a backup on this either either and I I assume that since it's done with a grant that's why it's not in the capital ordinance so it's in the bond ordinance it would be in a bond ordinance um for next year that what the 25 is for okay correct yep okay okay yep and um resolution can we vote on that one first yeah vote on it yes okay may I have a motion oh the motion has been made is there a we have a roll call please council member bueri yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member SCA yes council president rudo yes motion carries uh resolution 24-1 194 resolution authorizing the award of c c number one- 24 payroll processing vendor through the competitive Contracting process may I have a motion to place that on the floor for consideration moved Sparta moved by Mr Sparta is there a second second second second by Mr Higgins uh Mr Sparty you have any comments on I do I just you know I read through the support and I couldn't find the answer to the question the years ago we had an situation where the payroll company had access to our bank accounts flee us of over $300,000 do these people have access to our bank accounts for tax payments and stuff uh yes so the way um the payroll company works that they do submit our taxes um the issue that happened that was a long time ago um we had a maripe I believe it was called and they did not remit um the federal tax returns to the federal government so we get copies of those um that they are remitted in confirmation now things things have changed in the payroll world because of that massive debacle how how Dell how much of an issue is it for us not to give them access to it and we submit the stuff ourselves uh to submit the ual taxes ourselves yes um we we can submit the taxes ourselves um I don't see an issue with that I we did include the taxes as part of our um specs though for this project okay that's all thank you any other comments questions roll call please council member yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta no council president rudo yes carries the annual audit resolution 24-1 98 uh 20-20 2023 annual audit I have a motion to place this on the floor for consideration move to Sparta move by Mr Sparta is there a second second hiin second by Mr Higgins um any comments or questions on this particular issue couple recommendations made right that would be on 24-1 199 the corrective action plan um roll call please counc buer yesc yes council member Higgins yes council member Spa yes council president rudo yes motion uh resolution 24-1 199 the corrective action plan 2023 audit may I have a motion to place this on the floor for consideration so move moved by Mr Higgins is there a second I'll second it seconded by Mrs bueri um comments on this or questions yes I guess an explanation on uh you what action they recommend we take corrective action the my understanding Mr is that Mrs Mrs bri can you know correct me if I'm wrong that essentially what we're looking at here is a separation of Duties requiring a register person to handle the register for incoming funds and that those duties should be separated from the person who currently does that and that should be a a duty only for that person uh comment I from what I understand a lot most townships have this um as one of their recommendations as well I think it's one of these default that's right yeah the reason being we would have to hire somebody and everybody you know we always want to try and avoid having too many people on the payroll to save money so that it's a kind of a two two-headed two-sided sord you know you're you're cut one way or the other we don't have anybody on the payroll now that can handle that Duty yeah so can I can I just give a little bit of an explanation on this yeah so the adequate segregation of Duties every other um Duty financially has been segregated the only issue that we have is that the tax department takes cash and checks for tax payments and also post them in the system um to hire a an individual to work full-time and to just take the payments and then have the tax office apply them that's that's kind of um that would be expensive to do a job like that um I you know we have it segregated in every other fashion I have worked really hard to do that um it's just that is the one last thing that will prevent us from not having this removed is hiring uh an individual to just handle all the cash cash and check separately from actually posting the tax receipts that satisfy your concerns Mr Higgins yeah just it's that's government I guess rather than just getting it done we have to hire another person in government just to to stand there with a cashier with a cash register I mean do that's what it is okay no that's now with it it's just a recommendation I think there anything else no okay um roll call please member bushier yes yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes car introduction of ordinance 24-13 an ordinance of the township of Vernon County of suss state of New Jersey addressing taxi cab taxis and auto cabs may I have a motion to place this on the floor for uh introduction move mve by Mr Sparta yep second second second de benedetto seconded by Mrs de benedetto uh all in favor signify I'm sorry roll please roll have a comment no introduction just it's an introduction have comments for introductions okay roll call please council member bueri no yes council member Higgins no council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes SES um public comment I have a motion to open the floor for public comment on any item your time allotted is five minutes if you have any questions please come forward may I have a motion to open the floor to the public smart moveed by Mr spart is there a second second second by Mr Higgins all in favor signify by saying I I oos motion carries anyone wishing to come forward's coming me again um just a quick comment I think I'll address this I'm concerned that uh perhaps the council doesn't fully understand this ordinance for limousine licensing this only pertains to limousine services that are doing intra Town service um and has a business located in town so the question is do this uh impact out of town uh limousine services that may do service here to Newark airport or New York so I think it's ambiguous enough that it'd be hard to enforce it now I'll Circle back to the mayor uh with all due respect um the analysis um that was presented to the council this evening is really I could have taken 10 minutes on the internet and come up with that it falls far short from really understanding the value of any Township mayor or business administrator um have to consider what's the size of the town the budget of the town the number of employees everybody here know how many employees are are um managed here in town uh I know 200 Township like Byam which was used as an example be very surprised if their number of employees are near that also I would challenge that the council has not um done proper homework for as far as I know there is no um uh reasonable description of the responsibilities of the mayor um the township um business administrator and the CFO and unless you know what responsibilities or what is being fulfilled by those individuals how can you figure figure out what the compensation is as far as I'm concerned um as Scott said earlier um typically you go to the mayor with complaints you don't go to a a a business administrator or a CFO so it's very important that um the we don't need a mayor to shake hands uh kiss babies go to openings etc etc that's a part-time mayor um we need a full-time mayor I I wonder how many of you have gone into the mayor's office and looked at his whiteboard where he's put up uh a great number of projects in the works I've had the opportunity as the edac uh chairman to sit with uh the mayor and U um U developers to talk about potential plans for developing the town uh again I I wouldn't trust a part-time mayor um without business experience or Municipal experience or the combination to to lead those discussions um for instance as much as um our our business administrator may be good supervising people which is the main purpose of that position um I don't think uh most and not singling you out Tina but I don't think um the typical business administrator has that experience so um I I suggest we do the homework first get you know Define the responsibilities maybe somebody sit down with the mayor and have him tell you all the kinds of projects he's working on what the estimated time is um I know he's come to two or three of my committee meetings I suspect he's come to others so that's a Comm from 7 to 9 9:30 at night that he works am I keeping you awake I'm sorry so long day that's it thank you for giving me the opportunity I think the comment should be noted that approval of the municipal code will answer the questions that were raised by Mr Knight the mayor's Duties are clearly delineated there as are the the the response as far as uh use of the business administrator and the respon long you your time is up Mr Mr KN and as far as the same thing with the Chief Financial Officer and other members of the administration thank you is there anyone else wishing to come forward Scott Castle from GL again um we've been away so I missed a couple of meetings so this is a something going back a couple of meetings but it's regarding the zoom calls and the call-in participation um I think Mr Sparta had a valid question you know regarding Ai and all of that but unfortunately what happened with that was one of the Town clicks or groups or whatever which I learned there's a of them unfortunately but they took that and used it as a method to silence some person that they don't like that calls in that use you know that makes comments that they don't want to hear um so that that whole thing is unfortunate but I wanted to discuss the actual reason for not having or having Zoom um I know there was someone in here that was claiming they were in it or whatever we're talking about network security and uh you know Zoom vulnerabilities and things like that and honestly that's the typical kind of it scare tactic talk that companies use to get people to buy their products and I know that because I work for one of them that does that with their sales so they're they're it's just what they do um but I'm in it I run teams for uh information security as well as it automation um and there are vulnerabilities um pretty much any internet facing or public facing tool that you use is going to have vulnerabilities but it's similar to this building you know we could board up all the windows and block all the doors and never let anyone in and we're a lot more secure than if we let people in it's just not reasonable so you have to you know kind of have view evaluate what the tradeoff is and if it's worth you know the the information security risk that you think you're going to have um we use zoom at my work they patch everything very quickly it's not really a big a big deal um and I won't make this a whole it discussion but basically if your it if your infrastructure is set up correctly anything that's facing the internet like Zoom or anything else you set up the network so that it's siloed off so even if someone were able to ex exploit one of the vulnerabilities which is not simple to do if they were able to do that they can't really go anywhere other than disrupt maybe your Zoom meeting that would be all that they could do is caused some problems with that so that was the first piece the second piece was the actual AI piece um while it is simple to go online and create an AI instance with you know uploading some data and some pictures or whatever it's a totally different situation to create an AI instance that you can then port to a public meeting and make it be legitimate but let's say somebody does do that for instance the all we're talking about is somebody putting in a ton of effort to break into a Vernon Township council meeting and then on top of that they're only going to be able to do public comments which I don't know of any you know major Council decisions that have happened immediately because of public comments so we've basically you know um taken a very rare thing that possibly could happen and we proactively stopped a large group of people from potentially being able to call in and make their uh comments known and you know not everybody can show up here um because they've got child care or you know they commute or they've got physical limitations and now they can't go in and and just to me you it's a major uh overreaction and I think that um it wasn't real to me anyway maybe things went on behind the scenes but it didn't seem like it really had the discussion that it that it needed before it was enacted um and for me the town I would think we want more people to uh you know be involved and be able to to get their opinion known than than less I mean having you know 15 people here is not that great I know it makes the the meeting shorter but that's not really our goal I think we want to hear from as many people as we can so I'm hoping that this can come up for review again and maybe go you know be reviewed occasionally to see if it should be in there I mean I come in here so it doesn't affect me at all but I really get a lot out of some people that call even some people that call and I don't agree with I get some information from so yeah thanks thank you thanks go there any anyone else y somebody's walking up yeah it's me again an lson I just want to say thank you Mr C he couldn't have said it uh any better he tried um I do agree and quite honestly seeing Mr rudo on Zoom tonight it's kind of like it feels like rules for thee not for me uh it's unfair to people with handicaps illnesses all sorts of issues at home that cannot participate and we're basically shutting them down I mean if a council president can take host a meeting from home we can host meetings and have the rest of the public speak up and you know for all the talk of AI and sub you have a mute button if it gets out of hand you need someone and just and and the call but this is really it's it's it feels like stifling it's not a good feel it's not a good feel at all in the same age so thank you I hope you reconsider that thank you thank you is there anyone else coming wishing to come forward doesn't appear so may I have a motion to close the floor to the public I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs bueri is there a second second second by Mr sparter all in favor signify by saying I I I oppose motion carries public Council comments anyone wish to make any comments Mr Mr Higgins yes coms the people in the audience Mr KN I was the one who made the presentation on the uh mayor the idea was to stimulate the discussion not to be criticized that I took uh two hours to get information off the internet I actually said that at the beginning I said where the information came from and I think we were successful in stimulating a discussion there was no intention of solving a problem and uh I think it was the goal was accomplished and we spent a good half hour on it so that from this point then we move forward I didn't needan to criticize thank you but the other thing on Scott Scott staman and an just following up I voted no on the zoom and I stand by that and uh the reason I the one of the main reason I voted know too was Mr rudo I think solved the problem the two meetings before when he was very veh on new rules of engagement and people that were talking about non Council comments or non-al business were limited and they were shut down and then I thought it went smoothly so that's what I was hoping was going to continue to happen but it'll talk in the future and thank you very much thank you Mrs de benedetto I have nothing thank you Mr Sparta nothing thank you um Mrs bueri no comments thank you um we are moving into the heavy part of the Summer where people are looking towards their vacations and making schedules our staff our employees and individuals themselves um I've discussed this with a number of uh mayor and a number of other people and members of the council uh not all members because I wasn't able to reach them I apologize but I am cancelling the July meeting subsequent meeting the second meeting in July and the second meeting in August this will hopefully help people plan their vacation schedules without having to work with him now I did have conversations with the mayor and also with the um Clerk and she's assured me that all of the in requirements all of the uh demands um for you know items being brought before the council will be uh brought before us at the appropriate time and there will be no uh problem with uh for example payment of bills or anything like that so uh you can adjust your uh schedules accordingly uh again my congratulations to the uh graduates for this past uh this past year for 2024 um it's always nice to see these youngsters I'm sorry young men and women go forward and uh begin a new phase of their life uh I think they uh will enjoy it and I'm hopeful and I'm sure that they will have had a a good foundation a good grounding um by their education in Vernon Township so that being it I ask for a motion to adjourn I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs bueri is there a second second second by Mr Higgins all in favor please signify by saying I I opposed motion carries thank you nice