evening I CLI V this regular meeting of the BR Count Council on Monday July 22nd 2024 Madam clerk would you please read the public meetings act compliance statement the notice requirements of the open public meetings act have been satisfied with respect to this meeting of the township Council the meeting time and date were included in the public meeting notice in with public internet link and telephone call and information said notice and meeting agenda was posted in the municipal building and sent to the official newspapers of the township ver Ro of times and the St Ledger these 48 Hours proceeding the start time of this meeting the agenda and handouts can be viewed online with www.on nj.org counil meetings a public comment will be held in the order it is listed on the agenda and instructions on how to comment will be provided at the appropriate time thank m cler m call RS councilwoman Holland here Council McGrath here CC Roman here Deputy Mayor makoy here mayor tamboro here mayor also present um is Deputy Township manager Kevin oan Township attorney briano and myself municipal clerk Jennifer Kier thank M clerk please stand for the plge Alle pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America to The Republic one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice so for the mayor's report today we didn't not have Mr crae um agenda also was an appointment but the deputy mayor and I have just been discussing believe that appointment is at accountant manager's appointment so I'll be referred back to him um to short report for me first congratulations to Lieutenant Brendan Huber and Sergeant Aaron subbert uh for their promotions I did not able I was not able to attend their promotional ceremony because I was out of country but uh I have worked with both of those uh police officers on many occasions through my work on the rest of squaders management and they're truly fine public servants and uh we're really lucky to have them uh in our leadership ranks um in my travels I had the opportunity to visit Verona Italy and while mayor tomasi was not available the day that we were there um we did present his staff a Rona flag um and uh he was very touched and I I spoke to his office the next day we did get an invitation to come back whenever we would like um unfortunately the day that he was available we were in another place and couldn't go back um but it was wonderful to bring 73 students from Verona and several teachers to ver ity uh it was a very special occasion and finally uh Happy Birthday to council and that's my report mran thank you mayor thank you mayor uh to start my report I will uh first read into the record the recommendation for an appointment to the historical preservation commission that the recommendation is for Alina Stitcher as alternate 2 with term ending on June 30th 20 26 J can I get a correction uh she's going to be a regular member because uh Glenn stepped down at the end of the year and we were short one regular M moving on with the uh remainder of my report uh the town continues to work with new Jen and Community Services Department on the pool rate study and strategic plan uh we've had some meetings over the course of the pool season and we'll be meeting again on August 20th with uh recommendations scheduled later this fall as far as Wastewater infrastructure goes the smoke testing of the sanitary collection system began July 16th the contractor has proceeded without issue and uh the neighborhoods impacted are being notified accordingly based on the contractor's progress a number of the other projects continue to move forward our primary clarifier pumping station project is down with the ibank waiting authorization to advertise and once we receive that we'll be out to bid and we are pushing for the rfqs for the UV disinfection system and the micr screen projects uh those are rqes for the Engineering Services for those projects uh the the town also received approval from the D on our quality assurance project plan for sampling on the pekman this sampling kicked off this week and is being coordinated with one water Consulting and lastly uh there is the old unused green houses at the wastewater treatment plant have been cleaned and removed from the treatment process and repurpose for Public Work storage all these efforts have been coordinated with the Township's licensed operator and the dp's local enforcement inspector um the updates for the Lin drive and Fairview Avenue well are similar to previous uh meetings Lind Drive continues through construction uh it is anticipated to return online later this year the Fair viiew Avenue well diversion and exemption application has been submitted to Green Acres we're waiting for their final approval so we can put that project out the bid and lastly we continue to work with special Council on the varying P class action litigations uh the township is a class member to a number of them and we continue to work on submitting uh necessary documents to maintain our status in those class action litigations uh the clarage drive Pump Station continues to work its way forward through the necessary process we reive construction permits on June 6th uh the town had a number of comments that needed to be addressed so those revised comments are being submitted to the ibank uh later this week by Boswell and then at that point we will be waiting on authorization to advertise that project as well uh as far as storm water issues uh the township maintains uh in touch with the blue Acres Office of the D there have been three Property Owners along the pekman who submitted applications uh blue Acres currently holds those applications on file and they will advance them as they fit into future program funding and priorities uh additionally the township uh is is working through the final permits for the pekman river stabilization uh conditional permits were received and modified plans and calculations were submitted to the DP to address the conditions of the permit that currently sits in the DP pending their final review and uh there is still a a an erosion and Sewer uh storm sewer issue near the dead end of Brookside Avenue near the pman that the township is continuing to investigate uh we will be investigate it further over the next week or or two weeks to determine the appropriate actions moving forward uh the three new parking meter kiosks are advancing uh we've received word that the installer has received them they are programming the the kiosks this week and we hope to have an installation date in the next several days but the sites are ready for the installation of those new parking meter kiosks uh the the township continues to move forward on a few energy initiatives as well the local government energy audit team has completed all their fieldwork they've moved into the phase of preparing statement of energy performances for all the municipal facilities and their final reports and recommendations will be scheduled at an upcoming meeting when they are complete uh on July 15th Administration also met with a solar consultant on the updated solar feasibility study uh the consultant has gone through and fine-tuned their recent models based upon some comments provided to them and they are scheduled to provide a presentation to the Council on August 19th as far as an update for the community center playground in Ada restroom that project is actively in the middle of construction uh a number of pieces of of exercise equipment were were brought on site today the play equipment is scheduled to be delivered delivered by early next week and the contractor is lining up to to be ready for installation of all of that exercise and play play equipment at that time and move into installation of fencing rubber safety surface Landscaping Etc the only thing that will remain is the installation of the Ada restroom it's a pre-fabricated structure it's scheduled to be delivered the second week of September uh so in that intern period we will determine if there is an area that can be open to the public uh or if it should the entire site should be remained secure a few updates on road paving projects uh the Derwent Avenue project construction is complete there are contractors working through final punch list uh same with Boston Whitney windir Construction is complete uh final P punch list items pending and final tree puns will scheduled for later this fall Douglas place is the most project that was paid uh final striping is scheduled for the in the next 7 to 10 days and then the final Paving project uh that is uh on the docket is lynen Avenue that actual construction will not occur until 2025 but the township continues to continues to work with the complete streets technical assistance team we have a scheduled meeting on August 14th they will be recommending temporary Dem ministration projects to temporarily install on Lyon Avenue to help control some of the speeding issues that have been identified on Lyon Avenue those will be targeted for fall when school's in session and then those public educ um and then those the results and the effective pieces of of those demonstration projects will be incorporated until the final design we will work with our public information officer to push out some public education pieces on that as we continue to work through that progress ever field is continuing to move forward we have a presentation scheduled for August 8th in which we will present the final scope of the project the final Co cost estimate for the project and the local uh obligation for the financial uh component of that project again that's scheduled for August 8th uh there was a concept plan on pickle ball courts which was presented to the council that uh that pickleball concept plan was first presented to a number of members of the pickleball Community uh most recently on June 11th uh those plans were accepted uh with uh with enthusiasm by that that group uh they were then presented to the recreation advisory committee for review on July 16th and the final concept plans have been appended to my report for the council if there's any review or comment in summary the the recommendation or the concept plan lays out for it utilizes the existing footprint of the tennis pickle ball Courts at the pool and it sets aside one half of that facility for four pickle ball courts the other half of the facility will be set aside for a tennis court that can also double as two pickle ball courts on that opposite side the courts are all oriented in the same direction uh to eliminate Su glare concerns uh there will be uh new walkways and access for ADA compliance to and from the site there is an open circulation throughout the site where there's a very limited number of gates majority of the circulation through the site is through uh open gaps in the gates at in corners of the courts to allow for complete and Open Access uh there's also uh some Landscaping proposed on the uh entrance driveway side of the site to help buffer and shield from some of the vehicular traffic and some of the neighboring residents on that side of the court and then there are some proposed drainage and underd drain recommendations as part of this concept plan to help address some of the storm water concerns that present themselves on uh these types of projects along the edges of uh steeper slopes again that project was presented through the pickleball Community uh through the recreation advisory committee and the concept plan as it has been uh circulated is ready to be pushed into final bid documents and ready for public bidding which would allow for us to put this project in bidding later this summer and start construction in late fall with final construction completion likely occurring very early spring the final component of the construction is a um a very specific surface course that needs to be paved in certain weather temperatur so it would be completed in Spring 2025 uh quickly moving through the last few items on on my report is the uh sustain initiatives we continue to work with the five member Green Team from esg's insute sustainability studies they will pres be presenting recommendations for Centennial Field at the August 5th Town council meeting uh and uh we have discussed at previous meetings I'll just summarize again the Lakeside Avenue parking lot uh has been discussed and presented uh their is a bond ordinance scheduled for second reading and adoption later tonight um there is also a public information piece that is being coordinated with our public information officer to help summarize what the intended goals of that site are one one quick update that just came in later this afternoon is that the township has been awarded uh a grant from the bpu's clean Fleet grant program it helps offset EV initiatives throughout the township uh the township received the grant grant funding in the amount of $150,000 to help offset some of these EV initiatives including some of the initiatives that have been outlined at the Lakeside Avenue parking lot for charging stations and fast Chargers um kind of trying to work through this last items uh the there's been a number of updates on the sign the welcome sign to blomfield Avenue it was sponsored by DCH Acura that sign is near in completion we have a few other signs that we are coordinating for replacement with sponsors that includes the Verona pool sign the Verona Community Center sign and a number of the parking signs along blomfield Avenue uh we are pushing out rqs for planners and designers for blomfield Avenue streetscape and uh the last side I'll touch on on my report is that we also did receive an award for $70,000 from the American Rescue plan firefighters assistance grant with a $70,000 award for additional turnout gear and washer dryer equipment for the fire department that concludes my report any questions from um can you refresh my recollection and if you don't have the numbers handy that's fine um but there was inquiry from the rec committee about the pickle ball courts and the cost of estimate and my recollection was that we had received a grant for the pickle ball courts um if you have the numbers handy that would be very helpful there was a $75,000 Grant from the local Recreation Improvement Grant fund okay and then we're going out to bids so we'll be getting those different estimates full receive the bids uh later this summer and be well with the Final prices okay um and with Ard to the sustainable initiatives um and the Centennial Field recommendations it says interest groups have been advised of the meeting I'm assuming that means the August 5th meeting and so um is an invite or some communication also going to go to the recogniser committee meeting uh committee members because they don't have another meeting until September so I know that several of them are very interested in this topic as well sure Mr I know Mr robal has coordinated U notice too a number of the sports groups that use that field I'll make sure that he sends a notice to the advisory committee as well yeah it was discussed the most recent meeting they're very interested stop so thank you sure um thank you so um back on the pickle ball courts it is our process if we could po post these um plans online and kind of highlight to the public that you know this has been designed but um if people have questions or comments and have a process by which they could be directed to someone uh because I find that or we have found that when we put it out to the community sometimes there's something that just wasn't thought of or anticipated um and so the public understands this is you know we got feedback and I think it would be a great post for our public information officer so just to confirm um this site is in full ADA compliance and even these kind of like low walls in between the cords there's going to be enough room for someone who is in a wheelchair or has some other Mobility device to be able to circulate throughout the entire so there's there's 4 foot fences that are separating the quarts as you get to the terminal points of those fences before they tie into another fence there is a uh I believe it's designed is a 4 foot space uh I will I know Boswell is completing their uh their final designs at this point I will remind them that they should make sure that each of those spaces is viewed against all ADA compliance standards Additionally the walkway entrance into the pickle ball courts is also being considered as part of this project as well so there will be new concrete walkway that will be designed to Ada standards okay great um is there any chance we could apply I know I don't know where we are with the CBGB Grant process because I don't think we've heard on the awards that we already applied for but if there's any extra money could we get that towards our Ada walkway I wonder uh there's possibility so the the so cdbg has awarded 60,000 to the Evert field project and 40,000 to miscellaneous uh building improvements between commun Center and Town Hall those awards are are we haven't received the final Grant agreements from cdbg yet on those but I know they are anticipating in the August time frame to open up new round of reprogramming funds so at that time it would be a good opportunity to submit those this project as a shovel ready project for those that application okay great thank you those were my questions Roman just a brief comment on the uh road construction just wanted to recognize and say thank you for the timely completion of all this road road construction this was uh something that I had inquired about um you know with a desire not to have any these projects hang over the winter and uh we're very early in the season this is all wrapped up so I really appreciate all the efforts between Township Engineering Management DPW Etc getting all these done thanks Qui question you mentioned a meeting for ever field on August 8th yeah where is that meeting I'm sorry uh did I mention August 8th it would be August 5th meeting thank you Mr uh at this F we'll move on to council membery mayor M thank you Mr Mayor uh we'll be brief I would also like to congratulate Lieutenant Brenan Huber and Sergeant H Schubert uh it's always nice to attend those promotional ceremonies and listen to all the certifications and classes that all these officers take uh it's just unbelievable how much time they put outside of uh being on the job here in Verona I thank them for all their hard work andure their amount of safety they give to the residents uh and speaking of safety I just want to remind everybody because I I got a quick reminder myself driving down Claremont that there is a new stop sign at the corner of Claremont Avenue and Cumberland it is on clont so coming down the hill you have to stop when you hit uh but it caught me by surprise today so just making everybody aware uh there is signage up the police department did put the flashing sign to alert drivers of anic uh stop uh last week we did have a chamber of commerce meet and greet it went very well I I just want to also uh let people know that the summer concert series in Verona on Wednesday nights is moving forward uh hopefully well we skipped last week but it's rescheduled to the end of August uh check out the town website and the Chamber of Commerce is sponsoring the August 7th concert it's the John McDermot band and actually one of the members of the chamber is the bass guitarist in the band so we look forward to August 7th uh the chamber will have a uh a meeting shortly after that I'll get the date for that hour next meeting and that's all I have for this even thank you Deputy May Council you my items are largely repetitive here but I'll jump through them anyway I would also i' like to congratulate lieutenant cuber and Sergeant Hubert uh on the promotions within the department um it takes a lot of studying and work to achieve these promotions and along with all the regular work great to hear about the service history of all these officers uh really great turnout and thank you to all my FAL council members made it to observe these promotions so congratulations I would also like to recognize on the Chamber of Commerce uh uh event that was very successful we had a couple of new businesses in town that came to the chamber as well so this is a really great opportunity for local business owners to meet each other and uh and to get to know the town a little better and also happy birthday to council woman McGrath my report for this thank you Council mcrath um thank you um I too attended um and was honored to attend the police promotion ceremony I want to congratulate Lieutenant Huber and sergeant schuber and they are incredibly impressive um individuals and I really enjoyed uh hearing about their accomplishments and meeting their families um I want to thank our municipal clerk uh Jennifer Kieran for running another successful election uh when we started this year we thought there were only going to be two elections and here we are with four uh there was a primary last week uh to replace uh Congressman pay for congress now that that primary is behind us um I uh we're looking uh towards the general election which is on September 18th I do encourage uh residents to sign up for vote by mail which is a very easy way to vote um you can get your vote by mail application at Essex clerk.com or by coming here to town hall uh where we have ample applications um the neighborhood traffic and Safety Committee meet met um uh since our last meeting they uh discussed uh creating a um a a draft of the complete streets policy which will hopefully get to the council in the fall uh for review um and they also discussed the lynon Avenue project they had some new members and so they're breaking into subcommittees um and you know I just want to end on on somewhat of a Som note you know since our last meeting we had a a really another horrendous um incident of gun violence in our country when our former president um there was a shooting that injured him and he killed an individual um you know I do um um encourage um our leaders to do more to stem this epidemic of gun violence and I do encourage uh residents when they're looking um to make decisions on who to elect for state and national office to consider gun violence prevention strategies as part of how they make their decisions um before they vote um but with that thank you for all the birthday wishes um I've always wanted to purchase parking lot on my birthday so here we I'm looking forward to our meeting tonight and um thank you and um that's my report shall hopefully fulfill your wish tonight Council M councilman Holland just feel really bad I think it's on first reading right it's on it's on okay great then it is working okay um congratulations um congratulations also to um our officers on their promotions um I also want to acknowledge the hard work of our municipal clerk on running these elections um and recognize the challenge that they provided presented to a lot of our organizations around summer camps and and schools um as well so uh thank you to everyone involved I know that that was a lot um for a July election um I also want to acknowledge the Verona Summer music program uh that concluded last week they put on two um musical Productions of Wonka with two separate casts um a tremendous amount of students were involved um the kids had a great time there was a great turnout um it's a really positive program and I know that the kids really enjoy it and there's a lot of local support for that so I just wanted to recognize them and thank them for all that they do uh last week I attended the recreation advisory committee meeting um it was their reorganization and we had a full house um and so there was a lot of robust discussion about Recreation facilities and programs notably there was discussion about the recent bathroom uh backups at the Verona community pool there was also an extensive discussion that was followed up with an email to the administration about um incidents of vandalism largely bathroom related with bathroom overflows and intentional clogging at both the upper recreational Fields um at the community center at field and the like so there was a lot of discussion about opportunities to help address some of these behavioral concerns um and what more could be done so there was definitely a strong interest from the recreational advisory committee about kind of mitigating some of the damage to these large you know public Investments um in these Recreation facilities so there was a lot of discussion about that there was discussion about perhaps installing cameras if there was an opportunity to do so so I do expect that we will be getting more recommendations out of the rec advisory committee regarding that um especially on the upper field um because I believe there were concerns about more than just vandalism at the upper field um in addition there was a lot of interest and discussion about the field studies so I know that the recreation advisory committee will be very interested in the August meeting where these will be discussed and every field in particular tomorrow I have a vmac meeting um where we will be going over the financial program report so I will report on that at the next meeting and last but not least I just want to acknowledge what a hot and dry summer this has been and so I really just want to remind residents to do whatever is necessary to remain hydrated and to be vigilant about heat related illnesses um avoiding any kind of heat cramping or ultimately heat stroke um in these circumstances it's really important to remain hydrated so I know that we got a little bit of rain today so it kind of takes some of you know take some of my thunder away but um I will say that it has been um a concern and that we've seen a lot of kids with heat related exhaustion so um please just do whatever you can to stay safe and thank you that that concludes my report thank you this time I'll open the meeting for public comment on it any matter that any member of the public bring like to bring for our attention mam clerk would you please read the public participation anyone from the public wishing to speak on any matter please raise your hand by pressing the raise hand button on your monitor if you're dialing in by phone please press St n if you're attending in person please raise your hand once you're recognize clearly state only your name and P of residence for the record you're not required to provide your street address however if you do please note that these meetings will be posted on the Township's YouTube channel and addresses will not be redacted for any purpose love four minutes to address the council there'll be no cross dialogue and after everyone wishing to speak has been heard the council May address your comments and our questions thank you madam Tor first up on Zoom we have Kelly lucente I think the wrong one year Don instead of Kelly why keep moving sorry hello can you hear me we can hear you okay sorry unmute stay unmute okay okay my name is Kelly lucenti from Verona I would like to ask the Town Council and the town manager for assistance in getting a credit to my community pass uh account due to a flaw in the recreation Department's no refund policy on May 13th I registered my son for a $59 field trip with the junior Adventure Rec Camp unfortunately my son felt ill and did not attend the camp or the field trip which was on July 17th last Wednesday I sent a recreation department an email on Wednesday that my son would not attend and to give them notice to fill his spot our friend was on the wait list and ended up taking his place the parent paid an additional $59 I requested a refund since my son's spot was filled and provided a doctor's note that he was contagious and he had strep throat the doctor advised that he should not attend camp for the rest of the week the recreation director informed me that no refunds or credits will be given but he will address his policy at the next Advisory board meeting in September I understand that the policy makes sense for something like a headcount minimum or a seat reservation but since there is a wait list for this situation a seat a single seat was paid for twice in closing I would like to request a 59 credit to my community past which I could possibly use for the indoor pickle ball classes that the recreation department offers um but more importantly I would like to address the flaw on the policy as I'm sure that this will affect many families as well thank you for your time you any other public comments okay very N I will close public comments anybody response I for Mente I know response by Mr roboam I don't really have anything further to add Mr uh yeah I can I can say that mron did review the matter with the town manager and myself he did inform me that the uh the policy was implemented as it exists and there provided reasons for why there is a no refund policy uh there are specific needs whether they be waivers or clear attendance requirements um there are a number of reasons why that the recreation depart department needs to keep a very clear handle on on uh who is attending who is enrolled and the idea of trying to uh administer refunds for uh a variety of reasons becomes cumbersome in trying to uh maintain and protect the public safety and the health of and safety of the children attending those programs uh he did inform me that the child who did fill the place was filled based on the weight list that existed for that event uh that particular event uh required waivers to be to be filled out one week prior uh it happened that the the child that was uh next on the weight list happened to be there that morning when the buses arrived so the parents were brought in to sign the waivers uh rather than turning the child away uh he was afforded the opportunity to have the waiver signed and enrolled in the program based on the the policy as it exists uh that was the reason for how the uh that particular issue is handled it's in conformance with the standards and the policies that exist it's for really for the purposes to protect the uh Integrity of the programs and the safety of the children attending the programs good all right um we'll move on to hearing I'm sorry uh yes right we'll move on to hearing and Adoption of ordinances the first uh the next item on the agenda is ordinance on second reading CL could you please read the title of ordinance 202 24-27 into the rec Bond ordinance providing for the acquisition and Improvement of the parking lot located at 46 Lakeside Avenue in by the township Oona in the county of ess6 New Jersey appropriating $2,250,000 therefore authorizing the issuance of $2,142 th000 bond or notes of the township to finance part of the cost thereof thank M please move made by the deputy mayor is there a second second seconds made by gra now it's time for public hearing on ordinance 2024-25 same public comment statement applies however the discussions limited to this ordinance only see no public participation I close public comment Council discussion do we have Kate with 2.25 million candles on it for I'm sure we something yeah I don't know if we're allow with fire code we'll have to call the fire official's office c m grab yes I just want to say I I think this is um you know a very strategic move on this governing B's behalf and I want to thank the administration for bringing it Forward um you know I think there's just so much moving in the direction where we really need to have um to build up our parking facilities um for what is to come um and to prepare for a Greener future uh where we really uh need a place to put a lot of highspeed charging stations move off street parking um and deal with the fact that the park is um tremendous asset in our community and is drawing a bigger and bigger crowd so I uh I think this is um going to really pay off in the future I'm really excited that um we're at this moment and it's been a long time coming I'm I'm happy to support it thank you thank you else um I just want to uh Again State for the record what um the deputy the deputy manager had already indicated was that the township actually was just awarded $150,000 to offset EV initiatives including at this location I think it's so important for us to be leveraging these grant opportunities and really finding opportunities to mitigate the cost of these property Acquisitions or any of the initiatives that we're doing here in the township of Rona and I think that the administration did a very good job of reviewing the finances um not just with regard to the grant funding but all of the different elements um uh for this property acquisition and I'm just really pleased to see the progress that was made um and I think that this is a great opportunity for the township so we just got that recent award and there is also an outstanding application that we have that would offset up to 80% of this acquisition cost so again so important to be leveraging these Grant application opportunities um and I just am really grateful for the leadership of our Township Administration on this point Thank You councilman R just sort of checking the council woman's comments um the whole way through acquiring this piece of property which is you know we recognize this is a very costly acquisition here but we've got an extensive financial analysis um and numbers that uh that we can see in terms of the revenue potential here not just the Improvement to our community in our downtown one of our constant request has been to provide uh improved parking facilities for downtown businesses uh there's not a lot of land downtown and a lot of opportunities to do it this is a very strategic move I think it's a long-term investment in the community and I agree that the use of Grant funds and the administration's very aggressive push to pull in every single possible outside dollar into the community to be able to do projects like this uh essentially enables it I don't think that outside of that effort we would you know we would be able to make this work otherwise so I really appreciate all of the effort and again all of the backup that went to demonstrating the opportunity to us here on council plan to see us do this I I will obviously Echo a lot of the same comments uh I just really think this is a good strategic uh purchase for the township uh even if it's not used for direct parking to accommodate the businesses downtown it's going to reduce the amount of permit parking that we do in our uh Town Lots one and two so just moving those vehicles and getting some permits out of that area will open up more uh parking downtown also uh obviously everybody knows the location of this property it's a an ideal location for any developer so I think it's very strategic for the town to jump ahead of that and purchase it and use it for for something that's beneficial for the town uh and I think it's a very good move for the town not to mention that if things go very very well we could get a return on investment in two or three years and it'll be a revenu producing property for the town moving forward after that so all thank you Mr thank you C Holland yes castan McGrath yes councilman Roman yes mayor makoy yes mayor tber yes may ordinance uh G 202 4-47 passes 5 Z will be published according to law ices with a red line the next one's good check for the committee you get one that's solv one of the issues I have okay uh next up is ordinance P1 on first reading cler would you please read the final this ordinance for record amending the standards of the C2 professional office and business Zone District by establishing assisted living facilities as a conditional use and co-working space as a permitted use thank you m clerk would somebody move the ordinance please so move motions made by the deputy mayor second all second uh is there any Council comment questions we have San here to provide expertise s you have a statement that you want to make or you just he to answer question questions I'm here to answer questions and the statement um just to remind everyone a little over a month or almost a month ago I had uh sent a circulated a memo um and um you know I think that's pretty self-explanatory but if you if anyone would have questions I'm happy to answer that that's that's much a question but just a general comment um that this you know the C2 professional office and business uh Zone district is something that obviously throughout the production of the master plan process you know I had asked you a number of questions about this this probably out of all of our forms of land use is the one that is the the fastest changing right now um just because of the change in office space in general uh I do see a continuing role for professional office space uh for medical uses and some smaller offices but there's also a lot of it that is going vacant and I think that it's you know our responsibility here to take a good look at this Zone and make sure that it is something that has continued health and vitality to it so that all of the commercial and professional office that we have in the community is consistently used so I did look at this and I think that this is a smart move um you know for both of these uses Assisted Living which we've established that uh that's something we feel would be beneficial to the community to have an assisted living facility and then co-working spaces which are incredibly popular right now and a very good reuse of a lot of office space that uh might not be used for its original purpose so I'm glad to see us making this move and I'm in favor of moving moving these changes forward free work on I wholeheartedly agree with councilman Roman's statements and I will not repeat them so thank you councilman else question uh when we talk about going to our affordable housing and this is is Assisted Living would it be in the same category is senior housing typically in the past they have uh put that under the senior cap that's correct okay and do are Medicare beds in a different category I don't know for sure but um towns can if if you have not reached if a town has not reached the Senor cap at a future the at at the current time they could aware of it but um if you recall i' come in May of uh uh this year a few two months ago and we discussed um and I think um the township attorney and myself and we had a conversation with the township uh the affordable housing planner uh the idea was that um here we are providing this opportunity to have assisted living facility and um you know if we can't aware it of it at the current time you don't want to be in a position that 10 years down the line as as as the population is Aging in this country it's quite likely that they may increase the cap from they've already done that from 25% for all these years to like 30% as per a uh A4 bill so you never know 10 years down the line they may um increase it to 50% I'm just speculating the point being that if we have this ordinance in place a development gets built in an appropriate location that meets with this condition um and we don't take advantage of of the current situation by saying please provide 15% in accordance with our um you know General ordinance um the thought process was that 10 years down the line you don't want to have a regret oh my God we had this opportunity and we blew it so that's the reason why um there have been you know many towns who've had um who've done um say Apartment B buildings during the time that Kaa was you know that flux from 10 2010 to 2015 and didn't provide affordable housing and then later regretted it so that that was the thought process that you can provide this at this point and then move forward I understand I just I just asked because I know like to me there there's obviously a difference between an assistant living facility and just senior housing correct correct we we have senior housing in Verona correct but I didn't know if there was a special credit you can get for assisted Le the credit is the number of beds that's the uh difference like senior housing um or any kind of affordable senior housing for people um who don't need special assistance if you will yes that's that's the unit that's the credit but in case of something like that bedroom or number of it's the bedroom I believe yeah not bed I believe it's the bedroom thank you any other questions for S okay well you're off the H than councilwoman Holland yes councilwoman McGrath yes Council Roman yes mayor M Boy Yes mayor Toro yes mayor H woman be Council ROM any Council discussion just a click thereor uh we we brought this up on the last time uh we have in second page 18-20 C we have chairman change to chair person and same thing at 18-21 a just to to minor correction than are those I see and see in the red line CL is there is there another one that missed I think they're caught in yeah they're caught in redin so what happened the council if you looked at your packet unfortunately the attachment was the wrong attachment so it wasn't the updated since our last meeting or some of the updates we're not really sure what happened when you were sent this packet this was what um was changed after your last have before you so there are uh changes that have been made that aren't reflected your packet that's why Jen just handing out these uh these papers now the only thing may I please the only other thing that I'd like the council to discuss is the clerk had received um questions I believe from the wreck committee with regard to the fact that from a technical point in when you're an advisory committee you can't spend money or take any action all advise you're technically not under the law responsible to follow the open public meetings act previously it's my understanding that the council has indicated they want our committees to follow the open public meetings act um so we get more public participation there's more engagement it's more open and inclusive process um so and that's actually reflected in at least two of the four ordinances before you already because it talks about how even when there's a sessional meeting that you'll follow this but I just wanted to let you know that that question has arisen to once again have you confirm or change your mind on whether or not you want the open public meetings act to be followed and then assuming you do um I will put a another sentence in each one of these ordinances this is first reading we can do that that states that um although it's advisory committee the open public meetings act shall be followed in order to uh keep the public informed and encourage people to participate that clear any object to that addition to all of I'll just make one comment that the only I don't know whether it's necessarily part of a just to make sure that we don't um spend money on Publications for uh the only thing I'd rather avoid is you know any sort of printing fees or publication fees for meeting notices if it's not statutorily required just if I may um I have all the Committees Supply with their meeting dates I do one annual meeting notice so um there going forward there's no Publications okay and if they do a special meeting do we do a supplemental notice they do but they'll have to notify me early enough get it we manage the cost on that yes got someone Holland and just for the record I I don't believe that inquiry came from the rec advisory committee um yeah but it has been traffic okay yeah because we we have been following the open public meetings act and I I believe that the representatives on on the recogniser committee um understand those requirements and have actually made an infer to be very uh diligent in their compliance uh one item since we're our discussion is technically on the Green Team the moment um we did not put a numerical Quorum there is not one reflected on the changes here on all the other ones we had put a specific number for Quorum unless I'm missing it I don't yeah that's correct during our conversation we did not just discuss a numerical form on this particular one we can certainly add that next yeah I think it would be a good idea to be consistent at least so I will put it as six members [Music] and just to clarify the quum if I can ask clarifying questions um if they don't reach Forum they can still meet they just can't take any action they can't V minutes it's an advisory committee yes that's all right that's what I've been it's kind of like if two Council people meet they can discuss yeah they can discuss they just can't memorialize it memorialize it's not part of the meeting it's not yeah that's so we're on GRE here yes any other he has seven 13 there's seven public members plus three plus two so there 13 voting members so I just made it just 15 they're two non voting members but they the they do not count for theum unless they vote so at 13 so at 13 so we had done one below a majority for everybody else and this is one of the commit we having a hard time getting people for so we should we am amend that oration yeah okay so with no objection amend it to add a six person one just one CL call the rooll prod councilwoman H yes councilwoman MCG yes Council Roman yes Deputy Mayor maoy yes mayor Toro yes mayor H2 will be numbered 2024 d29 will be published according to law of public hearing will be held on August 10 thank you madam Clark next item on the agenda is ordinance number 83 on first reading mam please read tile of ag3 and amending chapter 18 article 7 entitled Multicultural inclusion accessibility advisory committee of the code of the township of Rome thank you madam clerk will somebody move the ordinance please the Motions made by we'll give it to council mcrath for her birthday would like second second by go Roman um any comments on this I believe had everything we discussed nothing more than nothing less give everybody a second just to final councilwoman Holland yes councilwoman mcgr yes councilman Roman yes mayor maoy yes mayor Toro yes mayor will be numbered 20 24-30 will be published according to law and public hearing will be held August thank Madam clerk the next item on the agenda it's ordinance H4 on first reading cler pleas the title ordinance Rec an ordinance amending chapter 18 article six of the code of the township entitled neighborhood traffic and safety advisory committee thank M CL please move the ordinance motion made by Council gra I will second the motion any Council discussion on this again I believe it has everything we discussed another Stu Madam clerk please call it all councilwoman holl yes councilwoman mcra yes councilman Roman yes Deputy Mayor makoy yes mayor Toro yes mayor H4 passes 5 it's going be number 20 24-31 will be published according to Law Public hearing will be held August thank mam Clark the next item of agenda ISS number H5 on first reading Madam cler please read the title of5 is directly ordinance amending chapter 18 Article 5 entitled Parks and Recreation advisory committee of the code of Township of for thank M CL somebody move the mo much is made by councilman Holland is there a second second the second is made by councilman Roman any Council discussion councilman Roman 40- drive has the chairman out your chair or chair person I prefer just straight chair but I think we got a chair person and all the other ones say chair chair previously I like CH better um I have one addition as well they're in here somewhere in 4-2a it says director community service the proper title is director Community Services we can update that as well see that in the red line serves down the bottom a director Comm service us oh I see yeah in the red light okay I see it other discussion um yes Council just uh to avoid the scrier error um the 40 section 40-2 I I think it's just a because of the red line it should be a b and c it looks like we have two a's currently so just when you finalize um into a clean format make sure that corrected observation anything else councilwoman Holland yes councilwoman MCG yes councilman Roman yes Deputy Mayor maoy yes mayor Cho yes may H5 passes 5 be number 20 24-32 will be published according to law anding to be held by August okay uh next up is the inent agenda which includes the July 1st 2024 minutes well as nine resolutions Sunday like move yes so much as Deputy Mayor second second second made by councilman Roman uh now is the time for public comments on the consent agenda same public comment statement applies with the uh Proviso that we are accepting comment on the consent agenda at this time s do you have anything to add on accept no okay hearing none I will close public comment on the consent agenda any Council discussion hearing n Madam clerk call the RO please councilman Holland yes Council McGrath yes councilman Roman yes Deputy Mayor maoy yes mayor uro yes mayor uh K1 through K9 will be numbered 20241 126 through and including 134 thank you we do have one addendum this evening which is the of Larry rap to the open space trust fund advisory committee somebody please move that my so second made by Council romman the second is by Council mcrath by Mr R's appointment heing none mam clerk is Council Holland yes councilwoman MCG yes Kel and Roman yes Deputy Mayor makoy yes mayor Toro yes um theend resolution will be number 2024 d135 passes 5 thank you moving on to new unfinished business we have a discussion our continuing discussion on uh the standers Town Center Zone district and S back to you um thank you um so I prepared I prepared a draft ordinance and um just to REM remind everyone those who who were in uh involved in the master plan process um that we discussed extensively revitalizing the Town Center um and uh page 51 and 52 of the master plan uh the land section actually uh discusses that in great detail and one of the things that um we found during our analysis at that time was basically um continuing to create uh some sort of a uh you know um active downtown so one of the things was to get rid of that 50% mix which was really something that was Maring the ability to revitalize the downtown the other thing was also to um ensure that at future date there'll be no parking to the front so uh to have a minimum and maximum standard so and then the other thing um that uh was you know the GC zone is near Verona you don't need that 20 20% open space near Verona Park um so that was another thing that was discussed and most importantly um we already took care of the rehabilitation designation we had identified that how that the rehab designation would help Property Owners to improve their buildings and you know it allows you the ability to Grant uh shortterm ter tax exemptions and one of the things that the master plan identified is a rehabilitation designation can act in tandem with the you know uh changes to the TC Zone to help for greater development in the downtown area so to that end taking all of that into consideration um what um what this ordinance does is first off you know try to get rid of um obsolete definitions like Amusement M machine and video paror and um what have you and try to the attempt was to infuse in a more um vibrant downtown and just based on our own experience doing this for other similar towns um came up with some definition so that way it's easy for your zoning officer to um regulate this so um you know try artisanal workshops are a big uh thing these days Brew UPS um you know the actual ordinance allows movie theaters but we decided to make it more like a commercial entertainment um craft Distillery micro Brewery and um the other thing too was uh to give a broad uh definition for like personal services uh retail sales Retail Services um and then this use a shared kitchen Shar wood shop or Shar textile space it's very similar to a co-working space and it's very popular in um in um in in and around you know the country um so that was another recommendation where we actually defined what that would entail um so you know section two which is like 150 17.4 um we Tred to change that um to basically add um the the defined uses uh onto onto it so you know personal personal services retail sales um so that's that personal services got added added commercial entertainment co-working spaces hpops which are great in in the downtown area artisanal workshops shed kitchen and then uh one of the things uh on page four if you the last sentence we also added a maximum Frontier so you had a zero foot front yard which you know somebody could have a 20 foot or 25t um setback so what this does that 10 foot also allows us to you know probably like put in landscaping or just give that space so somebody could do like outdoor seating if it's a restaurant so that that was the thought process behind um behind this setback um the other thing uh we added uh was distilleries and micr breweries as a conditional um section and we tried to set forth standards um regarding mix uses um as I mentioned we got rid of uh under the conditional use section we got rid of that um this condition condition shall not apply to mix use development in the TC Zone that even distribution between the two so we did that for the TC Zone uh got rid of not less than 20% of the lot shall be reserved for open space and landscaping again going back to the thought process that you have a beautiful park right in your downtown um you know these lots are are tiny what's the point in having a 20% it's most of the our observation is and you know uh those of you who sit on the planning board know that there are a lot of vences associated so it's not working so we got rid of that and micr breweries and craft distilleries we basically put in standards uh you know based on how it's defined in um with as for the statutes and then try to make it very clear that you know where um if if it's um more I would say uh what's the word you know very specialized um beer or what have you um when it's a tasting place then it's more about um you could have pretzels or potato chips but not have like a full restaurant there making that distinction and um also it's it's a principal use only and shall not be permitted as an accessory use so it's not accessory to a restaurant you know so it's by itself and um like for example I don't know if it's still but I used to live in Princeton and Princeton had like a cigar bar and all they did was um you know they had uh people would go there and smoke cigars so something similar to to that um I didn't put a cigar by here but um you know but I'm just it's very specialized is the point I'm trying to make any questions for comments sure uh s first thank you for this because I will go back to I believe right after our zoning ordinance was drafted back in 2009 2010 uh an application came up like a year or two later uh and it it was first floor retail two stories above and that's when the whole 50/50 split came about so it's been talked about for that long to get rid of that town center because obviously if we're allowed to have three stories two stories are going to be residential and one story's uh going to be retail hopefully on the first floor so it's it's at the end of this but it's it's probably the most important thing in my changing of our downtown zoning that I 100% agree with uh there were a couple uh questions here as far as the Town Center uh you have all these uses cafeteria full restaurants on in 150 on page four uh and it says these users shall be permitted on Lots having Frontage on Bloomfield Avenue however Our Town Center goes off on a couple sides streets uh are we excluding those uses on in all because I know like I'll take Grove Avenue for example we already have restaurants on Grove so okay so this I didn't write this is existing and now is a good time to discuss this because if there's something the master plan didn't go into that detail and um you know you as a governing body member um all of you uh have the freedom to make recommendations to me and if you think that this is something I need to examine I'll be happy to do so I certainly think that if something's declar town center and these in the properties that are already uh zoned as Town Center have these uses on them already they do so I think any Grove Avenue there because would be or just not even taking front of joh just saying any in the Town Center so I could the one thing I could do is just um uh delete that last sentence if you guys think that would that would make it because then that way there's no um anything there's no confusion does that make sense it absolutely does I'm trying to see if any objections to that no well because here this of heads the other one that popped in my mind was uh we can we can be specific with properties but it's also Town Center I'm looking at drug Fair it's it's technically not on it's on clont Avenue okay and obviously that's a very large piece of property the current W current okay uh so I think that's another it is it is Zone Town Center so I think that would be if we eliminated that then it would be included in all these uses um okay that's fine anything else that there I have a couple but if you want to go on someone else I can come back goodby to you uh councilman um thank you actually following up on the deputy mayor um pointing out in this uh section A2 on page four it also said that for basically restaurants 100 100 patrons Max well I'm not sure if some of our restaurants especially with outdoor patios are over that amount currently oh really well I mean I don't know I think that's a question for investigation we don't want to I don't know if we've ever thought about um the table count of what we have existing right I think it is 100 like some sort of standard um I don't know why these they had this but I can tell you looking at the size of restaurants um in in uh Verona I didn't it this didn't jump at me I mean the Bloomfield Avenue I completely get it now I I I could leave it to you guys if you think because okay let's step back um one way of doing this is if there are parking requirements that kind of that actually gets to my actually my major question I just saw the hundred wrings because yeah the deputy mayor honed in on the specific power yes so let's maybe put a pin in that my main question is about parking requirements right so you know if we really we we have received received advice before relatively recently and postmaster plan um that we really should be looking at parking requirements so doesn't that go hand inand um because our understanding is if we kind of take a more modern Approach at parking requirements that will also help to enhance uh Redevelopment and new businesses coming into so that's a good point so the master plan uh parking is the next thing will be tackling um the master plan had actually recognized uh how obsolete the current parking was we spoke about shed parking um you know and especially in a downtown area like Verona um it would help to have shared parking um and the fact that you guys um just discussed this Bond ordinance U which I was not aware and it just actually uh uh interested me to think about you know any area when you're trying to revitalize the downtown um it's it's a good idea to provide off street parking of course but if there is other parking available that um you know motivates people to walk and there are examples like you know again Princeton Morristown we don't Princeton is a smaller town similar to Verona Morristown gets into that very different um very different than what um Verona wants to do but Princeton for example of course it has a university and it's a very different but but it is a very tiny downtown and the um there is there are there's street parking there are parking garages there but there's because of the University there's a need for it but what what I was trying to say is that we have Municipal Lots we have street parking which um in the it'll be actually three years now that I've been doing work in Verona I've never seen a parking issue um at all but with Shar parking with having other parking opportunities um you know there's one way even um uh what you know you have churches uh which have parking lots that are not used you know so there are different ways one could tackle that uh but to go back what the parking standards if you know and we have started working on that already started working on that those would be um you know once we find the uses it would make more sense to put in and check and see what those standards would be does that make sense yes it does and that's that's where my interest would lie to maybe work on these in tandems so that we understand how they fit together um and they are they being worked but it's just that if you recall when IID come um i' mentioned that um the reason why I was doing this was what I had explained as a strategy because you don't want one thing holding the rest of them like C2 got introduced but that whatever was written in the C2 it was thought through while while we were writing the TC yeah if that makes sense well speaking of the C2 on the last page on um on page six on B uh four it says there's a caveat here on the C2 Zone it says site access must be from Bloomfield or pton Avenues but again we know that we have C2 property on Grove as well so that's another uh just a small example we may want to look at every like the 100 seating capacity the issue the deputy mayor just raised but here too the C2 Zone uh we have C2 Zone on Grove as well so just these little things but overall so you're talking about this particular ordinance okay yeah that's something but this is yeah but this is specific uh to uh mixed uses yeah mixed uses were the C2 Zone that were we were discussing could be for the assisted living and uh co-working space but this so the C2 Zone really would apply to the world Avenue C2 property well mixed uses could go in the Grove Avenue property anything can go in there that we just introduced but we introduced Assisted Living just as an additional but it's still zon for all those conditions see to what you introduce is not going to uh there there's no conflict because this is a very separate section yes no I'm just so so so that I understand clearly um uh so you're saying that in the C2 Zone site access must be from Bloomfield or pmon I noticed it too um would you like me to what would you like me to do well it's just that we have c2s on in growth I just don't know if this was a taper when no it it it was right so this was this let me look at what the C2 Zone permits let's go back and okay so in the C2 Zone if you go back to the C2 Zone ordinance um it permits uh let's see condition use so it permits mix residential and professional offices um and it um it permits in the conditional use section so um C2 professional so page three if you look at it mix residential and professional office uses non-medical blah blah blah um and it talks about non-medical uh you know 158.3 um it talks about those and then it says that in the c2's site access must be from Bloomfield uh Bloomfield or Pompton Avenues so if so I have the zoning map so there is a small C2 portion um near the senior center opposite side of senior center so it's uh sort of precluding uh it's it's including that I'm sorry and it's including the C2 Zone on pomin with that with that sentence because we have C2 Zone in the township there's one on Grove as you know um there's one um on um Bloomfield it's a small section Forest Avenue uh between Fair View and almost towards ums yeah yeah it's a very tiny portion um and then there's one uh along pmon uh to the north of Claremont all the way up to uh you know Pilgrim so I think this this I don't believe it's a typle it was intentional so the idea was to have C2 um mix use along mix use along C2 in the bloom along Bloomfield as well as palton uh Avenue that I don't believe the intent was to have it on uh Gro I interject on this ordinance is specifically covering the Town Center District though are any of those regions in the town are we conflating things that shouldn't be in this ordinance this is only regulating TC correct and you're talking about properties that as far as I can remember are far outside of TC they are right so is there anything that is C2 zoned that overlaps with TC um it doesn't the C2 Zone um I don't know how then for you know for organization of this ordinance this ordinance itself should not try and regulate anything that is not TC which I think was c yeah yeah so pardon me with our you know clarifying I think that's what we the best thing to do would be Bally not it is not a part of T I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt um it isn't a part of uh it isn't a part of TC Zone it is under the mix use uh section which is uh 150- 8.3 okay so that's not regulating a Zone that's regulating the concept of a mixed use separately from a Zone the conditional use that's correct right okay all right I understand yes so then I guess the question is do we want you know and again pardon me for jumping in the middle of your com here what are we what is our legislative intent here you know in terms of regulating mixed use within C2 zones what do we you know do we want to permit a mixed use in the C2 zones on Grove for example um or do we not do we want to intend those to be single use properties I mean going by what we passed tonight Our intention for the Grove Avenue property on one side we're talking Grove Avenue has two C2 right properties there's one near Bloomfield Avenue and there's one at the end of over near ozone obviously Our intention for the ozone area was for assisted lip right but as a single use on the parcel yes and that's really the question here is do we want a parcel in the C2 Zone to be eligible to be a mixed use on a parcel mixing uses within a zone is one thing mixing uses are parcel is a different concept and I would kind of argue that the C2 zone is and the way that I feel it exists now is not really a mixed use Zone certainly not right and I feel like the the intent of that is for there to be some more landscaping for there to be larer setbacks for there you know for those to be a little bit less intens use than a town center use um that's not to say that you might not be able to conceive of some projects where mixed use might make sense in the C2 Zone that could be a d instrument I mean somebody could go before Board of adjustment if they had a project that really really made a lot of sense in c2's Z as a mixed use so I would kind of not blank it I mean that would be exactly what someone on the C2 property closer to Bluefield AV would most likely the the other so yes there's always the board of adjustments the other thing too is for these kind of uses on on Bloomfield or even pmon um you know they they would qualify what the state calls smart growth because there's um availability Transit availability there two bus uh bus routes on Bluefield there's one on pton so again I you know if you want me to examine this further I can but I think that whoever wrote the ordinance um at that time the intent was to that along the Bluefield and Pon um Avenue Corridor for exactly the same reasons that I'm um talking about and then the other thing to on Grove um there is that um commercial condo I don't know whe it's a Condominium Association but the property next to uh at the corner of ozone and uh Grove it's already developed as a commercial uh you know condo like it's not vacant or it seems like every time I go it's you know it's it's busy it's viable so that's again you you have to tell me if you're the governing body members you it's your it's um you're the ones who um legislate so let me know if you want me to examine this further but I I personally as a planner when I uh reviewed it it didn't jump at me I must say that what um a deputy mayor mentioned that did jump at me but then you know is I'm glad uh we discussed that uh about these uses you know to just like restrict that to Bloomfield so you know I leave it to you yes I so a general opinion I would have on the uses is in C2 zones what I don't really see is residential other than the Assisted Living I think that that's kind of the question is do you want a mixed use in C2 Zone let's say on Pompton that is residential over retail I mean do we want any residential in any C2 Zone on the other hand you could have something that professional office with retail in it that might make a little bit more sense um but I feel like we need to do a little bit more analysis as to again the C2 Zone I keep bringing this one up because this is an incredibly tricky land use right now that requires a lot of thought and a lot of looking into what might happen because I think it's the most likely spaces that people are going to want to redevelop based on how we Define them and what we permit within the zoning ordinates so we need to tread very very carefully because we will probably end up with something that we don't have at all right now and we want to make sure that if we permit something as an as of right Ed we really want it to go there so I would I would say we want to think a little bit more about the use the concept of uses within C2 um I just don't think we have I don't think we're going to hatch that out very well tonight so I either that's sort of further discussion there um if I may I'd like to make just uh two other General points outside of outside of C2 if I can um the in the TC enter Zone the blanket permission of entertainment as an as of use right um I would also say that that one is also a potential mindfield because you could end up with live music venues you could end up with and you could end up with things that really in my opinion should be a conditional use and subject to investigation as to their specific characteristics rather than a um as of right use okay uh just because there's a million different uses that could fall underneath entertainment and then secondly where you talk about a shared kitchen one use I specifically wouldn't want to have would be a ghost kitchen um which would be essentially a you know that's where it doesn't exist as a as a restaurant but it's people come and cook a million different types of foods in there that come and get picked up by Uber Eats and door Dash and so on and you're going to have a lot of traffic of delivery services in there if it's not you know that's what I see someone finding a loophole there as being able to start a ghost kitchen underneath the concept of it a shared or communal used kitchen that different businesses are allowed to use and that's going to create its own sort of secondary issues if we permit that okay so M so um the again this is for discussion if you think if you all have concerns about that we don't even I mean you want me to remove that that's fine um these were ideas that I thought was it's it's a good discussion St I I'll put a little more analysis together maybe in an email might be helpful um and and I'll send it on to the township manager can relay it um and then we can just have some more some more markup that's you know like I said there's a million different roads we can go down here with this I just really want to make sure that we are thoughtful about what we do permit you know then we try and kind of look into these things in our crystal wall here a little bit and see what we might be allowing you know there I I like the concept of of activating the Town Center Zone a lot and making it more vibrant uh we want to think about the general character of the downtown again that's where I feel like the conditional use process comes into play where we have some discretion right um and then like I said the C2 Zone I think needs a lot of just very careful analysis where we can do a lot of good there but we also want to think it all the way through so with so um with the C2 I think it any additional uses would be under the conditional use section um right so uh what are your ideas what do you think should go there um do you want me to go into detail and look at um how that how the conditional use section would apply to those uh properties on Pon and the the area on Bloomfield like I'm just trying to understand clearly so what do I go back and do what I what what I really would like to know is what is the general experience what is happening professional office sector as a whole um so we have a lot of professional Office Buildings that as far as I can tell look like they might have been built somewhere between the 70s and maybe mid 80s or so they're still serviceable uh but I can imagine that they probably have some vacancies that the rents you know probably aren't on an upward trajectory I feel like those are going to be sort of the next very attractive targets for redevelopment for anything that's not truly you know dilapidated or a vacant blot so you know my thought about this zone is you still want want to encourage some sort of non-residential use um because otherwise if you allow residential use in the C2 Zone my opinion is that all of it will get redeveloped as residential use um I think that's a much higher Revenue uh maybe other than medical office you know medical office will probably make the most money and the residential will probably be right after it so if we allow a mixed use with residential in a C2 Zone all those properties are all going to get redeveloped oh um I did not think of my professional opinion was to keep we have very few non-residential zones in the township and um I didn't think of um residential you uh uses on those uh you know tiny portions really the township there were different thoughts that I had one of which was basically how about um even having uh uh you know Urgent Care is very popular we have you know I'm sorry we have one you have one correct um I'm sorry you have two you have two so what then um really we have is like I said the co-working space um doctor's offices will never go out of business we've even found during covid that those uses were there um we are retail these days um isn't really as flourishing as it was but restaurant uses will never go out of out of style um and that's why it was the thought process when when I wrote this was that what are the any other creative things that one could have to revitalize your downtown um and um I did not think of I did not have um how should I say this I did not even consider um thinking about residential or mix use residential in the C2 because you have enough of residential so I guess the question would be do we want mix office and Retail in C2 and that's where I specifically Point people to think about the pin Avenue for it or do you envision having you know restaurants on the ground foro professional office there or is that a little too close to the single family residential that you know comes in those neighborhood uh because that's you know that's what I kind of think about when I think about the the concept of a professional office use those are medical offices attorney's offices accounting offices Etc um and if you permit someone to put a restaurant on the ground floor of one of those buildings that might be a very attractive use question is do we want it I don't have necessarily the answer to that but I would ask people to think about that the pton Avenue Corridor basically between you know Bloomfield and Lyndon um and and what are we actually we think that should look like so the other thing too is um i' mentioned uh the last time um I think Council woman mcra had asked me did you do a lot analysis for the C2 zones and we did do lot analysis for C2 zones um I was supposed to bring them and I didn't um so I apologize but um one of the things we noticed is that along pmon as well as uh along Bloomfield you do not have very large properties so if one were to even assemble properties under conventional zoning it's not that it cannot be done it's just a little bit more difficult to do as you all know um and in that um you know I call it the Triangular portion but it it faces ponon um Avenue and it's bound by Claremont to the South and um Martin is the closes cross street so it's like and then pmon Martin it becomes like forms a triangle and all the properties that face Martin are single family residential all all the properties that are along pton are um uh C2 Zone and that entire area if we were to disassemble all the properties it's 5.4 Acres so it's a good size the rest of the properties are not large enough to support uh you know like a restaurant use because think about it it's the use then it has the traffic then you require buffers because especially when it's uh backs up to single family residential so um you know I can go back and review for the conditional use section um to see if it is viable or not uh but very frankly um I didn't think of retail as something viable because of the size of the Lots like we already Bound by that you know okay um yeah again I don't have the answers this is just kind of open discussion sort of food for thought that again I think that that's it's an interesting question like I keep focusing on this Zone because to me it's sort of the most interesting of what could happen there yes um but yeah I'd like to just know more right and i' be happy to you know U I don't know probably I'll have to talk to our Deputy Township manager but if he wants me to come in at August 5th I can come with more um you know analysis for that that's I'll leave it that I S you are spot on when it comes to from Claremont to even going further than Lyndon because all those prob there's like three or four big buildings on the left there's one on the on the right and those are the big properties the rest of them when we look at even town center and I want to get into this the the lot widths they're very minimal so you you would have to have somebody acquire a lot of these properties together to do any type of development or have any restaurants there uh it would be difficult maybe I mean the bigger buildings could maybe get restaurants in the bottoms of them but right now their their use is I know they they're pretty active pretty full summer medical uh there's an architect there and that he occupies the entire building and a lot of these buildings I think two of them have uh parking underneath so they're they're up in the air and they're only two stories high but they're only a one story building but uh yeah you you were spot on with with with all that uh I want to get back to the town center uh and what I just mentioned like minimum lot width we have 50 feet I mean there's a lot of properties within the Town Center uh like just right around here that I know if they had a change it used just for being 50 feet wide they would probably need to go for a variance so I don't think we we want to make that any smaller but we have some of the properties in the center of town are 25 26 27 feet wide so I mean it's just I don't think there's something we can change uh so I just I just want to make that point uh the one I wanted to touch on was in 158 it's actually page five uh from the top it's it's number nine maximum height for principal building uh we've always had this in here it's three stories or 50 feet and I know there's people who wanted to do developments and wanted to get four stories in because you can easily get four stories in 50 feet so I'm just thinking maybe we should lower that to 40 feet uh I'm just throwing out there for for comments or or uh anything that you know listen to what my colleagues have to say about it but when you're talking retail first floor you're talking maybe 12 to 14 high and then two 10 foot stories above that you're well below 40t and I think it just putting it at 50 just brings people into to wanting to build higher and unless that's something we want in the downtown I personally don't like it I think it's the some of the buildings that are three stories already are big uh and I think if the rest of it the center of town got developed that would be it' be overwhelming at all four stories so I think that's a thought we should we should think about lowering that to 40 uh if someone wants to try to go over they again they can go to the board of adjustments and ask for it uh and then right after that number 10 maximum height of a accessory structure is 15 feet uh I just kind of in my mind I was trying to go through town and see think about all of our uh commercial properties I don't think anybody has an accessory dwelling garage anything like that off the so I don't even know if we need this in the ordinance because we are allowing up to 80 bill building coverage of 80% I mean they're going to need some parking or some delivery so that's going to cover the other 20% so I don't need I I was thinking we we might even be able to take that out uh again thoughts from my colleagues uh and they're allowed to cover 100% of the property uh that was all I have for that uh commercial development we disgusting that's really all that I had uh and I'm just going to lastly touch on parking uh I think that's something we have to be careful about because uh it does deter a lot of people from not improving but expanding their Town Center property because currently in our zoning ordinance it says if you stay within the footprint and you're just renovating you want to change from I don't know a retail store to a restaurant there's no parking requirement as long as you don't increase your footprint so uh I personally I've said it a million times if you want to walk two blocks in Verona you have plenty of parking downtown uh do we need for places like a quick pickup in the morning for coffee Bagel yes uh if those we can get spots close by and turn them over that would be great but as far as you know adding parking or trying to push parking on people uh I again I I think it stops people from from actually expanding and if we want to enhance our downtown and we want people to put a second story on a building the parking is there's no place in Verona where someone can put a second story on their building and eding on propery so I'm just going to throw that to add to our discussion so one of the things which had mentioned was also that you know when we discuss during the master plan and uh while we're doing the analysis now was also to consider parking so that so that's one way because um what really can be uh you know counter productive if you is if you have individual Lots having that um and um it takes away from this whole purpose of making your downtown walkable it's not that it's a very small town it's not that difficult to walk to the downtown and share is a great idea the banks aren't open at night the restaurants are open at night switch it over and we've tried to do that and then going back oh I'm sorry and going back to this accessory height just because there's a height standard people um you know the 15t is pretty standard for accessory structures um I I you know I don't know if um you know when you when someone develops their property or revitalizes their property um they it's they would rather have adequate parking than put in a shed for example so um I'm I just feel have having that you know um requirement there would not be would not DET any kind of uh Improvement or be you know um something that the township would regret at a later dat because it's bad yes and I I do of course this thing about Ling the building height or having it at 40 that's something I can definitely consider if everybody is in agreement um because that would be to keep up with what the township um wants to that small town Feld of Verona with like retail on the ground floor and two stories above so that three stories 40 ft would you know work I think that was in another think in the other ordinance 7 three stories 40 ft so the that was for the assisted ass living yep oh yes um I think that's where I'm just a little hesitant though because if we're currently at something to lower it I thought everything was was getting bigger and so not that no I don't think anyone in town wants to have four stories but just to allow flexibility in case some of these businesses and I just don't know the standards but you know to have that retail space with a high ceiling and have some higher ceilings in the residential I'm not saying you know I'm for a certain number I'm just not I don't have enough details so maybe that's something we can just get a a followup on but I do agree that I don't everyone wants the small town field and we but at the same time we want to encourage you know some Redevelopment from happening so if we lower it are we accidentally now limiting something since we already were at 3 and 15 so I'm not sure think it would be worthwhile just to get some building heights yeah we have access to all of them that's fine I can bring back I think that the deputy mayor brings up a good point as to this C graph as far as what The Sweet Spot is in there but it would be helpful to know because you don't want you don't want you don't really want to restory 50 building either if all the other buildings are 35 ft tall you know because then you have a just this disproportionate that would be mean I have an idea what it would be but I won't before I blurt it out to give you an idea of height I know when they did Anon the new Anon building is 60 feet and the old one is where they added to it went to 80 feet oh wow but if you look at the first one this 60 feet it's pretty hot that's they they give you an idea we're we're allowed 10 foot less and and you know let's say if it were 15 feet on the first floor right and then typical homes are 10 feet right 15 10 10 we're still below uh it's 35 you could do 12 fo ceilings and then 12 foot ceilings so you know so I'll I'll take a look at it just give a sweet spot so that um you know nobody needs a c variance or a d D6 variance yeah and I would just circle back on that restaurant limit because as we already mentioned in the T TC TC Zone there was one property that the deputy mayor highlighted that right now is a drugstore um but if that like you know I'm just wondering like do we want to limit restaurant size and why do do other towns limit restaurant size well I I think one of our restaurants has more than 100 SE capacity now so it's something that we need to yeah we just need to look at that wait I'm up there where the restaurant limit there's a limit here 100 seats for restaurants okay yeah some of those are outo like kind of outdoor and kind of not outdo yeah it's it's in section 15- 17.14 and it's A2 where we were proposing to strike that these uses shall be permitted on La having Frontage shinfield it's the sentence immediately before that it probably should be stricken as well right that's that's that's what I I just wanted to clarify for you yeah so okay because like I said um if if we have parking standards that regulates the am uh amount of seating mayor I'm so sorry one question uh sure does this if when we change this does this apply to the uh TCM U Zone that we had no it does not so that's still sto because that is a part of your um our settle your settlement I did not touch that lastly because this is town center and it will be affected have we thought about uh adding something in this about airbnbs allow not allow I mean I know some towns are passing ordinances against in the TC Zone though TC zone or entire town separate or and so in the TC Zone frankly looking at the way the TC zone is currently um I did not even think Airbnb would be an issue unless you know it it is an issue now the rest of the Town um the other residential zones if you guys think that's something we need to be you know not prohibit then that we can research and let but um for the TC Zone I I really didn't think that would be something that just specific did okay yeah I mean I do think it's something we should look at as far as I'm sorry I think it's something we should look at for I mean I I I would def I I don't know our attorney do you agree with me yeah I agree I think that that would be a probably a separate ordinance that dealt with the residential areas in town um that would be a separate ordinance for res I'm going to repeat myself sub was a separate res residential reply comment to comment certainly um so the tcmu Zone uh the concept of this applying remember they're developing because that's an overlay Zone they can still develop to the TC Zone underlying Zone and in this case you know this would apply if theyre you know chose to develop under those standards so yes what if we could say Zone few more times this evening just to Zone confus I'm zoning out all right well on that not um thank you s I think we have a some idea moving forward what I would also uh suggest is H if you have other comments uh please uh direct them to our Deputy Township manager who uh will forward them to me so thank you very much for your time okay yeah so I'm all open for public comments on any item any wishes to comment upon send public comment statement five actually we have a new no he left so we don't have to read it again hearing on I'll close comment this time we have made a motion to we pass resolution to go into executive session will any formal action be taken no no but we we'll be having executive s yeah all right we will see you at our next regular meeting which will be the 5th of August same time same Station to