[Music] n [Music] oh [Music] oh [Music] [Music] w [Music] oh [Music] he [Music] he [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 [Music] minutes [Music] he [Music] [Applause] [Music] a [Music] [Music] ah [Music] you [Music] all [Music] w [Music] w [Music] [Music] ah [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 [Music] [Music] minutes [Music] a [Music] oh [Music] you [Music] you [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 [Music] minutes [Music] [Music] okay it's 3:59 if everybody would find a seat we're going to try and get started at [Music] 4 spe okay it's 401 and at 401 we will call the February 20 2024 Valia County council meeting to order uh I'm glad to see everyone here um just to kind of run through how we normally start normally we would open with an invocation and then go to the Pledge of Allegiance but this is not a normal night and uh Pastor Joshua D Owen of Spruce Creek Presbyterian Church called and he is uh he's not able to make it in tonight so in just a minute I'm going to ask you to stand we'll have a a moment of uh silence West mark wats wants to pray um and uh but I will say if you're a member of a faith group that would like to participate in our invocation you are welcome um to do that just send an email to k green the letter K green ata.org this is Carissa green down here um to my left your right and she will get you all um all set up to to do that um so uh with that we will stand um for a moment of silence and then go right into the Pledge of Allegiance amen amen I pledge ALG to the flag of the United States of America and to the republ for stands one nation Carissa would you call the role Please Mr Reinhardt here Mr Robbins Mr Santiago here Mr dimsey here Mr Johansson Mr Kent here Mr Brower so we do have a full house Quorum uh we will begin our meetings uh with public participation and we do have a few I will um call you in the order they've been given to me and when I do just come to the podium please the podium there's a a button on your left that will allow it to go up and down we really want you to be able to speak into the microphones so the uh um people at home uh listening in can hear you and and we can all hear you you'll have three minutes to talk about um uh your issue and um there is a timer will be on the screen above me and I believe also on your it's there now and also on your uh on the uh monitor there so please stick to three minutes we've we've got a uh quite a few people that want to talk actually and um I will I'll let you know when the 3 minutes is up so first we have uh Raymond fanom nobody ever wants to go first Raymond fanom hman Beach we have been told that actions speak louder than words the conduct of five members on this Council shouted disdain for those of us who made presentations about the moratorium allow me to tell you who we the people who you referred to as these people at one meeting are those who spoke here at at Norman Beach included a PhD chemical engineer who was in charge of a fuel terminal a professional pilot a judge a mayor City legislators a member of the Chamber of Commerce nurses Business Leaders at least one school principal combat veterans people with Advanced degrees and numerous diligent people who did hours of research I have a PhD and I taught social policy at The Graduate level at forom University yet during the meeting council members instead of listening to us were receiving text messages reading WR written messages showing through body language and total disinterest in in what we were saying and they were frequently out of the chamber that three of you got up and left the chamber as mayor Partington walked to the podium was beyond belief a similar number of you were out of the chamber when the pilot spoke an excuse of but we can hear what is happening when we out of the chamber is laughable how are we supposed to believe that you paid more attention then than you were here you showed similar disregard for people have spoken about flooding and property violations but the only person you paid attention to was the lawyer from Belva to it was felt as though were at a trial where neither the judge nor the lawyers cared to listen to the evidence to be told that we were full of fear and to have one of you even say in the media that our concerns were all Fable and fear is highly insulting even judge Craig at the hearing about the moratorium said that we had valid safety concerns that one of you threw at us that million dooll homes are across the street from a bay is a ridiculous argument move the terminal to the other side of the bay and see what the people there would say it's always easy to be on the other side of the bay to be told that living next to a fuel terminal when you were in the military is just fine doesn't mean you would live next to a terminal now regardless move forward summon the chemical engineer summon the health professionals the heads of the fire department who send you letters health care professional thank you Raymond and let them that's very interesting and let them see what they say for God sakes do something about the people who been complaining about Mr wat about about flooding for age after age your time is up thank you very much Patricia fanom good afternoon Patricia fanom Orman Beach two weeks ago I left this chamber filled with fear disappointment and disgust I was and still am fearful about a fuel terminal being built a quarter of a mile from my home but my new fear is you after attending meetings for seven months I have observe the way in which you govern and it is not good at all I am more than disappointed with the 52 vote against the moratorium but that's your vote and I will continue to speak out against the fuel terminal your behavior has been disgusting at one meeting a council member accused the chair as pandering to these people another time a council member said why do we have to keep talking about this if they have questions they can email us I have seen you get up and leave the chamber when vucha County residents are speaking you sit there eating drinking coffee talking and laughing at the last meeting three of you at the same time were not in the chamber all of this occurs while concerned citizens are asking for your help if a high school student council behaved this way they would be kicked out and suspended I did not see the moratorium as a silver bullet I knew that it would be a pause a pause to take a good look at all Heavy Industrial in vucha County myself and others have expressed our fears by presenting facts about health safety and laws these facts came from Pilots scientists judges and nurses we were not sharing fables you do not believe that a fuel terminal will affect property value or home sales you think that's another Fable well prove me wrong buy my house the day I move out you put it up for sale you were elected to serve the people of ucha County that means listening responding and most importantly helping others meeting after meeting I have seen farmers homeowners and small business owners come to these meetings to hopefully get some resolution about flooding permits and neighbors they all start out the same way I sent you emails I called your office you never respond well that's just wrong you were elected to serve give up that luncheon give up your long weekend get out and visit the people and see firsthand what their concerns are you have a wonderful opportunity to help others this doesn't mean that everyone gets exactly what they want but at least reach out and show that you care show the people of valua County respect thank you Karen shreek good evening everybody I'm Karen treek from Port Orange and I am the executive director of the volary recovery Alliance and I'm just here to shed light and to raise awareness about the dangers of fentanyl in our community as well as let everybody know that we do have plenty of Naran in our facility that can help save a life since 2019 the valusa recovery Alliance has operated as a 501c3 recovery Community organization put into place to serve the community to help people get off of drugs and stay off alha drugs we also help families help their families and it's really has been a wonderful opportunity to to really make a difference here um fentanyl remains a Scourge in our community not only is there fentanyl on the streets but there is now other drugs including xylazine which is known as Tran which does not respond to Naran but we still want everybody to have Naran it should be part of every single person's first aid kit because it truly can save a life it's a non-toxic drug which reverses overdose by kicking the opioid off the opioid receptor in the brain and it is uh really a safe drug in the time that we have been giving out Naran we've given out almost 177,000 Narcan kits with reports of 96 lives saved from the Narcan that we've given out and we hope to be able to continue the process by giving out as much Naran as possible we know that overdose deaths are down by about 20% and I really feel strongly that a lot of it has to do with the work that my me and my staff have done in on the street as well as through organizations that are willing to listen to our trainings and I'm very proud to say that I'm a person in long-term recovery and I have staff that are all in long-term recovery including a young man that was narcanned 18 times and is now has three years of recovery he's a dad he runs our dad program and you know we're really proud to say that recovery is possible and should be expected especially in valusa County thank you very much [Applause] Jean Bailey W Jean Bailey good afternoon my name is Jean Bailey and I've come to the meeting today to request permission to install free naram dispensers in the Valia County area my son Bradley Steven Bailey died of a meth induced heart attack at Dolphin Park in Daytona Beach during the month of September mental Health and Drug recovery month forever 38 if there had been a free naram dispenser in the area he could have administered it himself the person that found him could have administered it it was 10 minutes of him lying there then help was called and it took a few more minutes for the officers to get there and had there been a Naran dispenser there in the media area I think he would have lived many of the community feel free Nar cam vending Machin would be beneficial to help overdoses in our County free Naran vending machines are the latest tool for fighting overdoses these machines distribute life-saving supplies Narcan nasal spray some states have also included fento testing strips in theirs as of now I personally purchased two snack vending machines repurposed and modified them into free naram dispensers I have purchased the manual machines so they do not require electric to function I have been communicating with Rhino at the vucha recovery Alliance who has committed to filling the Naran dispensers for free we will put brochures and postcards from valua recovery Alliance on how to obtain free Narcan we will also have a sticker on the machine to State please limit to two per person if more is needed please contact the Bia recovery Alliance I have met with Chief Jakari young Jennifer whittet depart Deputy Chief of Police and Captain Jer Nicolo of Daytona Police Department I shared my mission to install free naram dispensers in the Daytona Beach and Bia County area the police cannot prevent all deaths but these vending machines can help in harm reduction um um we discussed the high overdose areas in Daytona Beach they shared their concerns and their suggestions they suggested I speak with the vucha county o boy tax task force which I called and spoke with Sergeant Goen of the East narcotic task force he thought the free naram dispensers were a good idea they already work with Rhino at Bia recovery Alliance so they would be on board with the free naram dispensers I also uh volunteer at the bridge the homeless shelter I'm a barber I cut hair there and I am also a member of our mother's Village as a nonprofit that is bringing awareness to the many young people that are are being killed by drugs violence and guns and all I'm requesting is that we install these Naran dispensers in the vucha County area I have pictures of uh where I would like for them to be thank you Jean two one second here got it is where I have thank you thank you for your time excellent appreciate it report thank you John Nicholson John Nicholson Daytona Beachside it sounds like a good idea but the question is where do you put it uh we've done things in the past where in Daytona Beach do you want to have a drug Center where people are uh overdosing and shooting up drugs selling drugs where would you want it I live on the beach side do we want it in front of the Hilton where do we want to have it so please do not put it where it's needed you're going to end up hurting the businesses around it uh secondly on the issue that you voted on last week um you guys I don't know whether you don't communicate well or the public doesn't listen well uh I remember the woman that got up and said none of you opposed the uh fuel dump and when I look at this I'm like he said it he said it he said it he said like six of you made a comment against it one just said be cautious watch what you say because there could be a lawsuit but people are not hearing that so I'm asking you to be very specific because Don is very specific he's worried about the planes it's been said you are not dropping any of these issues so I'm asking you to line up your opposition the railroad tracks to me would be a big one the planes would be a big one the kids would be a big big one the traffic would be a big one all right is that road built to have that many trucks you know it's not so there are many valid issues and I was surprised at the 52 vote but then when I looked at it I wasn't all right there are reasons why you voted but I really didn't hear your reasons and if I listen and don't hear it I know the public doesn't hear it so we have to be more specific on why you're voting against it they just think you're you're big money people and I know that's not the case uh also I'm asking you I live on Beachside a big event that we have we have what nine big events every year over 150,000 people bike week comes up next weekend there's always a problem at uh the intersection of peninsula and Main Street Main Street is a County Road I'm asking you to redesign and put turn Lanes the the street is 9 fet wide Lanes and then you go into Peninsula and then they go into 15 foot wide Lanes you don't need 15 foot wide Lanes we can put five 12T Lanes in that intersection uh secondly when is the Memorial Plaza going to start the one by the bridge people have been asking me it's been sitting there I know for a year now with the wall uh that would be of interest uh on the last meeting that I missed at the U State of the Union the no driving on the beach I would oppose putting driving back on that beach it's the city of Daytona Beach that stopped the development there they refused to give Tiff funds and it died thank you thank you very much Connie Colby good morning Connie Colby Orman Beach um moving forward with the beler um regarding the pre-application and application process the pre-application intake was on May 13th of 2022 and there were various steps that they had to go through for that process it clearly states that the pro the project was to be a bulk fuel storage distrib distribution terminal and it also lists storage of jet fuel which was not on the EPA permit fuel was to be delivered and stored before delivery to gas and other commercial users in and surrounding markets they referred to a TRS a DRC an environmental review Land Development review and current planning review if these were all done are there any reports um in that same pre-application there were two subjects that were not checked off one was for City commission and one was for fire safety um whether they needed to be done or not I don't know but um as we await a new application from Bader things to contemplate the fact that nowhere in the code is there a reference to storage or bulk fuel or bulk fuel storage terminals section 72-1 172 addresses this if a use of a structure is not expressly permitted in any classification the enforcement official shall not permit such use of a structure in the classification unless it is substantially similar to a use or structure otherwise permitted um I would also suggest I hope all of you have read judge Joseph Will's letter long but he made some very valid points the other point that I would recommend the airport production overlay Zone clearly marks this area as a one 12a which specifically prohibits the storage of explosives lastly if and when another site plan is presented who will inform local unit governments who have a standing to raise objections in a timely manner thank you thank you Michelle uter how are all of you doing today I know you've missed me I have been Tak time out for myself because I've had to see doctors in Alabama because no doctor will see me in my surrounding areas if anyone that hasn't heard my story I have been injured by fizer I was sick 40 minutes after I took the second vaccine I have chronic inflammation dilation poly neuropathy I have trimmers heart palpitations microc clotting mcast and more along with vascular issues and I've had to see a cardiologist because I have cardio issues issues if you can hear the way that I'm breathing right now each one of you I have contacted in the past and each one of you gave me an email and each time I've been told to go see this Senator or that Senator which I have paperwork because I've been sick I will be delivering to them but I know I've been on Governor Dan santis Round Table and there are some others I know that one of them actually reached out to one of you and one of you made the suggestion since we're the our vaccine injuries are a financial burden you won't see about see us on the news or social media because they don't want you to know about us not nobody wants you to know about us and I'm here to do that because there's chronic illness disabilities and death our government in my own County including the hospital that I worked at that just recently let me go and take my insurance away that costs $115,000 a month for me to get my IVIG INF Fusion to keep me alive but nobody cares I'm the only one that cares about everyone I care about future Generations but when somebody sits there and tells another person that's been on Governor Dan santis in valua county that they can go and get food stamps that's how you want to help us you don't care that we're losing our houses our cars our life I have people that are losing their life did you hear that because they're in heart failure why because there's car IO issues people are having neurological issues there's still birst sterility and there's so many things cancers stage Force cancer is right away do any of you listen to us it just takes one person one person to do the right thing and to call your Senators to let them know that you're not going to stand up for this each one of you should be thinking about how you can help your county more if I'm living on the street are any one of you going to help me any one of you you are any of you going to you're not even going to know if I die I'm seven generations of Luchia County who is going to help our hospitals aren't not one of you all I'm asking is for you guys to do the right thing and to tell us that to be on food stamps or what have you we deserve better because we had lives and we want more we want you to do more because our government let us down [Applause] Sheila Lind good evening how are you all Sheila ly um Orman Beach I'm speaking about the badier terminals this whole process has been poisoned from the beginning that is what Mr s Sago said and I believe that to be true truth that is what I'm seeking Michael Henson wrote on his pre-application comments badier is looking to develop a rail freight terminal for distribution of oil fuel and propane and a rail yard is a permitted use in I2 zoning code of ordinance section 72- 172 interpretations of uses if a user structure is not not expressly permitted in any classification the enforcement official should not permit such use or structure in the classification unless it is substantially similar to a user structure otherwise permitted in the classification councilman do the words rail freight terminal or Rail Yard sound substantially similar to bulk fuel storage it is with that rhetorical question that I would ask that the enforcement official enforce the code of ordinance and stop manipulating it in Bader's favor gray Robertson who represents fuia County management commission and beladi be removed for conflict of interest it is time to stop making excuses about tax revenue property rights and the state law that beler is trying to pass to justify your actions thank you for your [Applause] time okay thank you all who participated um that takes us to uh item one our consent agenda and I'm going to pull uh just for a comment um from the uh County manager or his staff on uh item K is there any anyone else want to pull an item for a comment or for a vote okay okay just C Charlie see for comment or vote just comment okay chairman at this point I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented motion to approve uh by Vice chair Kent is there a second second second by Matt Reinhardt to approv uh the consent agenda as laid out um any other discussion all in favor say I I any oppose the consent agenda is pass 7 to0 um uh you want to start with item C Don sure I can umad here [Music] bball Brad's coming down thanks thanks Brad we talked okay thanks we talked um earlier today I think there was a some unique situation with the uh with the Dickerson heritage lbr library that somehow it was flooded and there's a need to get furniture in sooner than later is that right yes sir it was flooded during Ian okay so I think we talked and I expressed some concern about the price of some of these items that we're paying but are you saying that in the future we're going to be able to maybe bid this out more towards local um suppliers we we certainly could but it out to local suppliers but one of the strategies that we have in library Services is standardization across the library so we'd still be looking at these large companies that provide significant discount on the agreements that we're using so 30% one of the um companies offered as a discount for using that contract and 44% so when we go out the individual the library Interiors of Florida looks for those companies that provide the deepest discounts for us okay because I think I I'll I'll just leave it at that I was just a little bit concerned about the pricing that we're paying but I guess that's kind of a necessary evil to get this benefit is that well and I think the to understand we're buying commercial furniture and so number one the Fabrics that we buy are selected to last you know significant amount of years actually the the way that the Fabrics Roven or woven can prevent bued bugs so that's one of the things that we look at um you know there's ADV materials in terms of powder coating so we're looking at life expectancy for the return on investment and so that explains the higher pricing than just residential stuff yes sir is that right okay that's all I just I was just kind of taken back by some of the prices but I you know I'm going to go along with it I just wanted to hear that and let everybody else know why we're paying what we're paying for these items thanks appreciate it that's it thank you Don uh before I get to K I just want to mention uh you don't have to to come up Jonathan but item J we uh Jonathan Edwards did an internal audit on community Assistance grants alcohol drug and mental health found no um improprieties good it was just good work thank you very much and um I'll turn item K over to the county uh manager to discuss the collective bargaining agreement thank you Mr chair uh I think we have some the team Here Comes our director Joe uh deore and uh our director Dana P Pender and some members of the Union leadership uh Matt Harrison and his team are here as well I just uh would like to say uh kudos to the team worked real hard uh been a a long process but uh I think it's uh born very good fruit and uh we are committed to continue uh we know we have openings we know we have a ways to go but the team is committed uh to make sure we can fill those positions and uh I think this is a step in the right direction um as it does include uh the ability for us to give some experience pay to people from other areas does increase uh the correal officers base pay uh minimum of $1.75 an hour $2 an hour for senior Corrections uh and there's some additions to that uh and that's for this particular Year we're in and then uh they have agreed to take uh the general pay increase of County Employees for this upcoming year and uh also uh as we look forward uh it does give a a um a modest um guarantee in U later years uh depending on what the council chooses to do uh with the tax rate so again I'm I'm proud of everybody have worked very hard and uh I ask today that the council and I do appreciate you uh accepting the contract and and U any words you guys would like to say Mr Harrison uh yes sir I'm here today to say thank you to the County Council and their negotiating team although this process was drawn out longer than I imagined either side want it my team believes that this contract is promising for for Corrections we're also hopeful that Mr deore and his new ideas will keep the division moving forward in a positive manner I would also like to challenge the council to keep an eye on the surrounding correction agencies in Florida to see how we can stay competitive with the other agencies we need to continue to make progress within the vucha County Division of Corrections to increase current Staffing levels increase wages and benefit packages I want Vala to be safe and a safe and secure place to work work I want people to want to make this their career choice in stay in vucha county in closing I again want to thank you um for approving this contract I look forward to working with you and your team in the future to make the V County division Corrections a great and safe place to work this is a big step in the right direction getting this uh accomplished I can't thank the team for the county enough georgean Suzanne Mark Randa Dana and legal on this along with Matt and his team on that side we did a really good job getting this done and I'm very excited to see where this takes us with the Staffing and getting things uh squared away at the facilities thanks Council as well too thanks um before is that it from all of you before uh Matt has some words for you there there's a surprise um but this this was not a close vot vote and nobody has shared would anybody like to share what the vote was yes 97 to6 yes from yeah I think that's pretty significant Matt Reinhardt thank you chair um nobody's a bigger Advocate and I think you know that and and I like what you said Matt with respect to uh challenging us to keep an eye out on other counties and what they're doing to stay competitive um we often have comments at uh different venues where we talk about uh our colleges and what where we want to see those individuals walk across the stage get their diploma and continue to work in Valia County well the same holds true for for law enforcement the same holds true for Corrections this has been something that's been obviously very near and dear to my heart from the get-go and often times uh whether it be late in the hour when we like today's meeting at 4:00 and we'll have Council comments uh there's been times I think one time was at 3:00 in the morning um so often times you don't hear those comments but I can tell you almost every single meeting I've been saying something about it and as everybody else has been saying the same thing so we want to see you succeed and we want that uh 30 years of experience I can tell you it's not an easy job I did it so I can attest what these gentlemen and these ladies had to put up with and still have to put up with so I am super happy that we were able to make this I think you're in the right right direction no I'm sorry let me correct that I know you're in the right direction so I every confidence that I believe that Mr deore will take you across that line and we'll get more people and we'll make the conditions better we'll make the conditions safer but don't ever stop reaching out and let me know councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman I just wanted to act as a witness he does say it every single meeting so in case anybody needed uh concur on that but um on on a more important note uh thank you for what you've done I know it's been a tough one thanks to our team on both sides um I just want to say my commitment to you know valua sh I I would like to thrive for you all to be the top agency in the state that's a goal of mine you know how we get there it's going to take teamwork right um and that doesn't mean that you're always the top paid right um it doesn't necessarily correlate to that no that could be it too right but um working together my personal goal as individual council member to help make you guys the number one agency in your in your field in the state so thank you for your hard work Vice chair Kent thank you chairman just briefly to tag along with what councilman Santiago and councilman uh Reinhardt said you know I think one of the great takeaways from this is that you all spoke and your memb spoke and we listened and you know it took some time because that's what happens with negotiations and um I'm I'm proud of the work that this council did did and the give and take and the discussions um because it's something that we we need to get better at and in my opinion we are getting better and making a step in the right direction so have a good afternoon okay thank you all very much congratulations and that takes us to the uh the other end of the scale um item two of retirement of Earl farmer um Benjamin Bartlett are you going to uh he was ready he was at the top of that aisle waiting to come down it's your birthday right no not today Mr chair council members good afternoon Ben Bartlett Public Works director uh today I'm very pleased to recognize uh Mr Earl farmer who's standing right here uh with his retirement uh from vuch County water resources and utilities division at the time of his retirement which was December 31st a month and a half ago or so uh he was the longest tenured employee in our utilities division uh Earl began his career as a trades worker one in 1989 and from the very beginning his supervisors recognized him for his work ethic and dependability even writing in one of his evaluations Earl's work attitude and Leadership should be a model for all Personnel from the beginning he worked to increase his skills knowledge and experience in advance through the ranks from trades worker to Foreman to supervisor and eventually settling into a senior utilities engineering inspector for the past 15 years and I'm going to go a little off script here and say in my time in public works there is not a more valuable employee than an an inspector he's out there on the front lines looking at all the infrastructure and in his Case utility infrastructure that's buried and making sure that the the stuff that we inherit and we have to maintain is put in as it's supposed to be and is not going to cause us any problems in the future and to have someone with his experience advance to that level and out there on the front lines looking out for the county is an invaluable resource um Earl also played a key role in Hurricane preparedness postevent recovery operations um his knowledge of the organization in the system was invaluable I've been out on in the middle of the night on water main breaks um and you always have that one utilities guy that knows exactly where everything is we have everything mapped in our GIS system but Earl could go out there and tell you hey we need to close that valve over there you know he knew it he had knew the whole system like the back of his back of his hand and uh that is a huge resource ource and his shoes are going to be tough to fill um a very uh another admirable quality of Earl is while employed with the county he simultanously served in our Army National Guard for 25 years retiring as a first sergeant for with dedicated service to his country um now that he's retired he's Under New Management uh particularly his wife Gail his wife of 38 years and I'm sure she's got a honeydew list pretty long for him to take care of he also has three daughters one son two grandsons and one granddaughter and uh Earl and I were talking about this earlier up in my office um him and I share a common hobby he's into uh Chevy cars he's got two older chevels a 1967 and a 19 1972 so we I'm a car guy myself specifically Chevy so I'm kind of jealous he's got plenty of time to work on those automobiles so throughout his entire career Earl has demonstrated a solid work ethic along with a history of dependability and dedication we thank him for his years of Public Service to vucha County as well as to our nation in the armed services and we wish him the best in all future personal endeavors Pat we're not quite done yet Mr chair I just like to hop in real quick uh I've uh of course known Earl a long time I've been here 25 years and he was here when I got here and uh known him personally as well I think our sons uh were roommates uh on the football team U Back in uh the day so we've known each other a long time um couldn't ask for a greater person knows where everything is super Dependable um beautiful family and just uh uh a real great uh human being we're we're really going to miss you so just please have fun and please go easy on them so director Bartlett does somebody have Mr Farmer's number on a speed dial yeah absolutely I think Allan Michael does Allan Allan uh superintendent over the the field crew for the utilties definitely has you better lose your cell phone thank you for your service sir okay I appreciate it thank you very much welcome Pat can everybody stand in front of the County Council and I'll take your picture yes thank you okay I'm going to go back a couple oh let's get this group centered whoops sorry about that this way yeah he can't he's not in front of me we're okay bottom row take a step to your all right this is good more done thank [Applause] you doesn't say so we don't need a vote on that okay okay that brings us to item three um One retires another one gets uh promoted confirmation of appointment of Lou Paris to the position of division director Economic [Music] Development good afternoon Mr chair gentleman of the council Cyrus Callum director Aviation and economic resources and it is with great pleasure today that I bring to you for your confirmation Mr Lou Paris I have to tell you Mr Paris and I have been working together I had the fortunate opportunity to have him serve as one of our Q speakers and he's a staunch advocate for entrepreneurship and his records will show in his credentials the impact that he's had had in that Arena uh throughout vucha County but I'm going to yield to County Manager uh Mr W Reon wall for some words about Mr Lou's credentials yeah thank you uh Cyrus and yeah before you today we bring uh for your confirmation uh L Paris uh he comes to us with a very stellar and diverse background and uh uh Workforce Development Economic Development uh he definitely has had a focus on uh entrepreneur entrepreneurship uh he uh was a operations director at Global fwn a consultant firm specializing and attracting International construction investors to Florida uh he also is the director uh of program at Stetson University he uh worked as a business development Marketing Manager for Career Source uh FIA Flagler uh he's won many awards uh Financial grants secured hundreds of thousands of dollars and investment capital for other entities um he's filed seven provisional patents owns two US trademarks and is a published author he has uh again a slew of awards uh including uh ambassador of the Year award by vucha County business incubator ston University the innovator of the Year award uh he's honored by the 40 under 40 with the Daytona Beach News Journal um founding member of innovate Daytona Beach and founding organizer of 1 Million Cups Daytona Beach chapter he's also uh serves as uh Advisory Board member he did uh with fucha County uh um our business incubator there University of Central Florida so I bring him forth he's got a lot of knowledge of uh what we do but he brings some unique skill sets that we have not had uh so I'm very excited to work with him uh bring him forth for your confirmation than good afternoon welcome thank you I I you can say anything say but just remember we we Haven voted to approve this wait for to first but I'm very grateful for this opportunity I've lived in Valia County since 2006 and uh getting here uh I lived in and worked in six different countries and I picked Valia County to live the rest of my life uh it was I brag about the fact that I can say that I I I've been able to see it all to see the world and and pi take this location as as the place where I want to spend the rest of my life so I'm I'm very grateful for this opportunity and I'm very excited and looking forward to to making a a change in the community I always say that that uh uh one of my goals I have my my 13 yearold son here who um I'm looking forward to a day where he goes off to college and he actually returns back because to to valua County because there's a plenty of opportunities to to to live and work and and and prosper so that's that's really I'm I'm vested in this for for that one purpose thank you very much um couldn't agree more uh David Santiago Mr chairman I'd like to speak maybe after the confirmation okay Jake you want to wait till after the vote or please okay do I have a motion to approve the confirmation of appointment motion approve Johanson second motion to approve by Jak Johansson second by Matt Reinhardt any discussion all in favor say I I I any opposed and you are confirmed 7 to zero congratulations and welcome again thank you [Applause] and councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman and welcome aboard Lou um excited about see what you can do with us here in the county um um if you've watched over the past 12 months um I think it's safe to say that this County Council is very much one of the big priorities is businesses small businesses and just in general how do we make businesses more successful and want to come to valua that being said I wanted to encourage you through your proper channels um that we're not in the front lines every day it's you all that are in the front line so I I would encourage as an individual council member and I think my colleag probably would too share with us what's not working right tell us what you need in order to make valua successful um and certainly this Council will react to that accordingly but uh I encourage you I think this Council will be welcoming of new ideas I'd like that you've had a broad experience throughout the world um which you know we don't always get it right here too so bringing ideas from others um could potentially be make us successful so welcome aboard look forward to what you dok we'll do and Jake Johansson thank you sir um so I know you've been around the block I've seen your face once or twice before so uh I know you're no stranger to economic development in the area um and and the challenges we have here um for another world traveler in my previous life I I know that you've experienced many things and you have some great ideas of how to move Luchia County forward uh uh just don't ever forget that a lot of us haven't been around the world and we're not as familiar with those things so you have to explain them uh to to get them to stick but I'm pretty excited that you have that that breath of diverse knowledge in in what works and what doesn't work and hopefully you can find what works and plug it in here in fuchia county and and uh uh you know get our get our middle class uh moving forward and moving our County forward and like they say rising Waters what what Rising Waters do sink All Ships or rise All Ships Flo All Ships there you go so thank you very much you Lou we don't we don't know each other yet but I will tell you that the economic development department at at our airport has become one of my favorite uh departments because there's always something uh exciting going on always something impressive um and it's you said it David said it that um I I have a large family too and when when my kids are ready to go to work I want them to be able to stay here so I really look forward to getting to know you to working with her your predecessor was an amazing woman did a great job and I know you will too so just welcome and congratulations on us thank you [Applause] chairman I don't know no okay no pictures patus com his hair and everything when he lands that big contract coming over we'll take a picture okay that brings us to uh item four um this is a public hearing so I will open the public hearing now for if anybody cares to speak on this item please give a uh your form to Carissa green um this is ordinance 202 3-40 a small scale comprehensive land use plan amendment of 4022 Acres Mr Irvin Good afternoon clay irvan director of growth and Resource Management before you today I'd like to uh address both agenda items four and five with my presentation they are two separate items this one is legislative the next is Quai judicial um but they're pertaining to the same property and this is a future land use map Amendment so if this item is not approved then you cannot approve approve the subsequent item number five because it would not be consistent with the comprehensive plan what we have today is a request for uh change in both land use and Zoning for a 40 acre parcel located at the northwest corner of State Road 44 and Kepler Road as many of y'all are aware that is a area that has been approved for a PUD for the um renovation of an existing gas station the applicant wants to take that and expand that to in include the other areas that are currently uh under the urban low intensity land use urban low intensity allows for residential uses up to four units per acre plus it does allow for some limited commercial activities up to five acres that's why you were able to get a PUD for that corner parcel for the existing gas station what they want to do is change it so that it's split between commercial and urban high-intensity urban high intensity is a residential designation it allows for multif family units it is a dramatic increase in the amount of density that can be allocated and the commercial will allow for uh the development of various commercial uses because this is tied to a PUD we can speak in the next item in regards to what is being proposed for that um it increases traffic because of that it meets seven of the eight criteria identified for discouraging spa and one of the things that was brought up up in the uh County or your staff's report was consistency with the 2050 Vision plan um the land had um back in the 70s kind of a a special law passed by the state because they were identifying their water and sewer service areas and that translated to a planning practice that was implemented back in 1990 with the adoption of the original comprehensive plans of the greater Dand plan that is identifying areas that are outside of their jurisdiction and and kind of giving an idea of what they Envision this area to um develop into the reason why they are able to do so is this is within their water and sewer service area they would be the provider of utilities to the site um annexation is Not Practical at this time or legal because it is not contiguous to the existing boundary of city of Dand so they would remain in the in the unincorporated areas but again receiving utilities from the city at the planning and Land Development regulation commission uh we heard from the public who expressed uh concern in regards to the already burdensome uh traffic that is occurring at this location and we're concerned that by adding a commercial use and specifically additional multif family uses that there would be additional traffic making it even worse uh it was identified by the applicant that during the process that um the improvements to State Road 44 and Kepler intersection would be completed in the time frame where uh once this is completed those would be coming online specifically the uh shifting of it from a signalized intersection to that of a roundabout the roundabout would include slip Lanes as well as the standard uh roundabout to allow for traffic to move freely through there um there was um also discussion about that the Beford Avenue Extension which was had been identified since the 90s as the U viable alternative route to State Road 40 leading into downtown the land would be completed about that time um they speak spoke in generalities of it because that is a joint effort between the city of Delan valua County and private developers to facilitate it being connected from uh State Road 44 Summit Boulevard all the way over to where it would make a connection to the existing RightWay which would lead into downtown Dand so the re uh pdrc recommended denial of the proposed land use Amendment um they did review the uh proposed um let me go ahead if you could take me to agenda item five they did review also the Pud and recommended denial that as well because again it was inconsistent with the uh proposed comp plan amendment I want to kind of go over it because again it's important for youall to understand what's in the Pud so that you can make a decision both on the future land use Amendment and the proposed PUD so again this gives you an idea of the conceptual plan that would be incorporated in the plan unit development as you can see there's nothing specifically shown on that Northern parcel which would um be the portion that would be developed for multif family this area over to the West would be covered by a conservation easement it's approximately 10 acres of wetlands and Uplands that would be kept in uh conservation purposes to serve both for storm water compensatory storage and addressing some concerns from properties further north due to flooding that may occur the other portions of it would consist of the existing gas station that is under a Redevelopment plan already and then the remainder would be developed for a typical grocery shopping center where you would have the online St stores in with the m larger grocery store as well as out parcel capabilities so that was presented and you have a recommendation Of Denial on that because again it is not consistent with what the coun the pdrc felt was appropriate from a future land use the applicant on Friday submitted a request to put specific restrictions both in the future land use and in the Pud because originally they were attempting to get approval for a maximum of up to 240 units that could be developed for 240 apartments or town homes they are now seeking to restrict the property to no more than 100 town homes and that would be done through first of all a note on our future land use map which would restrict the use of that specific parcel to that type of use and then carrying over with the development standards that are currently contained in the draft PUD they would simply strike the multif family and keep the town home standards that are already in there um they will be able to go over the impacts I know that they have a presentation to discuss the main concern which is tied to the traffic so it's coming to you with a saff recommendation of approval on both items and then is uh pdrc recommendation or excuse me planning Land Development regulation commission recommendation Of Denial on both the future land use and the rezoning staff is here a and available to answer any questions you may have councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman thank you for the presentation clay before Paulo noticed something in the presentation that we uh incorrectly identified the vote of the pdrc it was actually 51 one member was missing and Mr Costa voted in favor of trying to approve it and then when the motion to deny came up he voted against that and also that item five because it is um quasi uh judicial you will have to have exp parte communication you want us to do expart now get it out of the way uh does anyone have any spte to declare yes everybody does I bet I I don't you don't okay we'll start with Don and work this way yeah I actually spoke with uh Frank Ford uh at length I spoke with Mr Watts and I believe that's it okay I spoke with Mr Watts and uh I think the applicants were in the meeting also okay I spoke with Mr Watts Mr Watts Mr Watts same okay questions um yes are you ready for for questions go ahead David Santiago thank you Mr chairman clay the the language that you said that's going to be inserted c um is that a regularly used practice and um do we are we confident that it stands up to the test of of someone not penetrating it yes uh you can see U many cities throughout vucha County uh utilize this we have utilized it ourselves where um again it it's appropriate with a land use decision and enforceable to sit there and put sight specific restrictions on your future land use map or in policies of your future land use element and which case uh you have a property owner typically offering those restrictions and then the elected B is approving it and putting it in that method then it stays in perpetuity or until there's a request to amend it they would have to come back in front of the both the planning and Land Development regulation commission and to the County Council to amend that is that is that different to like when someone wants to get it into a certain zoning category and there is a permitted use to exclude a specific permitted use if you're talking about like with a rezoning to PUD to go in there and exclude specific uses so that that way there's protection against those yes you can do do that as well as a PUD basically sir okay thank you and then my other question is if you can go back to the uh the map I think one of the or the second map that we've seen there we might be maybe it shows the partial lines um is there a am I seeing this map am I seeing this map accurately here let me see if I can mark this up here did that work no it's not working annotating right right here is that a separate parcel going through the back there between the lake and the property line that is not part of this application but there is a separate parcel back there like a uh half a u yeah or is that an easement um I don't know the nature of that property it's not come up as part of the discussion in other words like is there a um there is obviously private land between the lake and uh what would be the northwest corner of this development okay I was just curious I know I threw that to you as a surprise I was just when I seen the map it it stood out to me and well what you're saying is this is this is a paper Road right here that was created some way shap or form and then you can see that that is private held land so that may as you were asking that may be an easement of some sort or could be a r of way don't know okay um Mark if you know about it when you come up and you can just share on that and my other question is um on the Pud which would be the next item number five I'm uh if if you I think you may have been in my meeting when I met with the applicants and during that meeting I had mentioned uh about design standards a little bit or talked about it and and specifically I think I well I won't say I used a reference from uh certain communities and sometimes where you see uh I'll give the example I said you go to South Florida and some of these more influential communities um and you go into some of these commercial projects they're very very nice I mean you turn into it and you think you're in a resort but there's a Publix there's a you know Starbucks and all the same stores that we have here and then I referenced you know that in some cases many cases you see outside of those communities you don't see the same quality of development in the design standard um here um and I know we probably have some standards that we hold them to in the past I've also seen in other jurisdictions where in the Pud we've asked they have asked applicants to submit the design standards of what they intend to build and what it looks like as a negotiated process before the Pud is that something that we can practice uh we can do that for the non-residential I believe there was restrictions on residential development standards single family so single family no but with the Town Home and Commercial we can negotiate that if that's an issue that the council identifies as being critical in ensuring consistency and compliance with both the code and with the comprehensive plan yeah and okay so you're saying we can do it basically if we wanted to you have to identify enti to the specific ability to ensure the consistency and compatibility of the proposed development with the both the surrounding areas as well as with the code and comprehensive plan so it has to be able to tie those together I get you I get you might might be a little subjective but I get it I think um Council I'll talk about that when the time comes but I just want to put that on on your radar and thank you clay okay yes this is questions uh councilman Johansson thank you chairman um clay this is more of a general question but but but good at time as any um lately um the plrc has recommended things that has gone against staff recommendation is that fair to say it occasionally happens yes sir um and and so so it comes to us so I what I'm trying to find is is where where the disconnect is and and how we can resolve that I think I I I like the diversity of thought don't get me wrong on the plrc but I want to make sure that that that plrc and staff uh understand our our thoughts as a governing body and and I want to make sure that that there's there's not anything down at the plrc staff level that that we can't address to make your job and their job easier uh is is there anything missing that I'm missing here no sir um have there been uh situations where staff has recommended denial and the pdrc has recommended approval and vice versa yes but I would say the majority of the items coming forward uh we see that there's uh uniformity in how the members of the planning and Land Development regulation commission assess the criteria as does staff staff is uh really just kind of looking at what our past experiences our rules our interpretations those types of things and it really comes down just to the criteria that we have to evaluate and um in those situations uh there's just been a disagreement on how those evaluations interpretation okay thank you very much that's all I have chairman kind of along the same lines um on page two it says that the staff found this consistent with the comp plan obviously the um plrc did not find it consistent how do you how do you uh how how do we interpret that how do you um bring that to I mean that's pretty stark contrast again the and and I would say it's it's this and I I'm interpreting so please pardon me on this I believe it was a point of timing because uh what staff is looking at is that the commitment of improvements for State Road 44 and Kepler are in the do's work program so from a concurrency perspective those are committed funds for the Improvement it's been identified to address traffic out to 2040 so from a concurrency and and Capacity Analysis based on that information staff is acknowledging that that's a fact and that it's you know applicable in this situation uh there were concerns voiced by the uh planning and Land Development regulation commission regarding first and foremost just the installation of a uh roundabout they felt that that was probably not the appropriate Improvement and again that is a DOT controlled road so we do not have the ability to say no to that specific Improvement so I think that that the the Lynch pin on the decision was tied to traffic and congestion I I know that many of the residents also identified some concerns with the multif family and that also may have carried over with some of the planning board members staff saw that as a fact that um our planning Land Development regulation commission members uh staff saw that as an internal capture situation because um many times what you unfortunately have is that you have residential devel velopment that has to access onto an arterial road to get into a commercial development or an employment area whereas if you have integrated connectivity between it it provides for the opportunity for those who live in those facilities just to easily get either walk bike or if they need to drive not have to go out on a public road okay what does the comp plan say the the land in this area is supposed to be used for well right now what we're doing is we're coordinating between between the city of Dand and our own comprehensive plan our comprehensive plan has identified this as being an urbanized area hence the urban low intensity development or in intensity designation it's currently there we also talk about the ability to convert lands to commercial uses at intersections of major roads such as the arterial roads and state roads so again it meets many of those policies that we have in regards to Future fut growth and the need for additional commercial sites okay does the comp plan require a watershed study a watershed no what it would the comprehensive plan does not have specific requirements for analysis of that nature that would be done as part of the subdivision or site plan process so that will be done well it' be part of the storm Water Analysis they have to utilize what Basin they are in to analyze what the storm water is going to require and what has to be done okay the way you understand it to at this point uh there's existing Wetlands there that's not going to be developed is that where all the drainage uh will be directed it will be part of it but the uh let me get to the uh let me get to the concept plan if I can thank you there we go so there are uh there are storm water ponds there's conveyance also into that area so that will be used primarily for uh not only the storage but the treatment and and also allowing for the continuation of the flow the AR uh the applicant can provide your better detail on what their uh engineering is calling for okay and one last question um put on your look into your crystal ball well no this one you know um will the roundabout be uh four lanes north and south or two lanes it's going to be a two lane leading both North and South so what you're seeing is when I in my presentation I talked about slip Lanes those are these areas here here and here what these do is allow for traffic that are coming so I will talk about say State Road 44 eastbound if you're coming in here and instead of having to Traverse through the roundabout you can just go ahead and that will be a right turn lane that will allow you to continue on to southbound Martin Luther King conversely if you're westbound on 44 you would be able to use that to convert and go into Northbound Kepler towards 92 so those will provide for clear cleaner and easier movement through there if you're Pro proceeding through forward you're still going to have to go through and it's going to remain the two-lane configuration okay thank you that's all my questions uh Vice chair Tory Kent thank you chairman Mr irin just a couple of questions for you but before I do it's it's always a pleasure when when you're up at the podium because you're always prepared man you know your your business and uh you've always done your homework and I appreciate that about you uh which is why we turn you red when we say you're the best in the business you're you're excellent at what you do now that being said pdrc each council member has one appointment is that correct yes sir okay so pdrc is a is a an Advisory Board appointed by us the elected offici let me rephrase that it's seven members that are appointed by the coun correct and the staff report or we heard you say it was 7-0 but then you corrected it it was 61 51 there sorry I'm sorry five 51 thank you for correcting me on that recommending Denial on the one vote and then was the second vote six to zero recommending denial I don't is that what is that what Paulo said I think it was I think it was 60 because at that point the the you could not approve the Pud because the comp plan wasn't right and you mentioned that you began your comments with that this evening with us with the two items that that are that are before us so this was this was a big issue for me when I sent my questions to Mr rectenwald which was there's a disconnect here somewhere with staff recommending approval but pdrc recommending denial so I needed some more information and and I'm assuming it was you that gave the response I knew it was when I was reading it I was like this is Clay Irv's response I know it and it should be thank you so we have pdrc recommended denial and then for this my final question and I'm gonna say please don't answer this unless you feel like you should because I never would want to put you in a sticky situation um you know you're you're too much of a professional and you're too good to get caught in it anyway but if you can't answer it I really want to hear from the applicant when they come up and do it at the 11th Hour which I'm actually okay with changes like like that I don't like you all heard me before I don't like 13th Hour stuff but the 11th Hour you know you make some changes so I heard that it was initially um the process they were they were asking for 204 up to 240 town homes and now on Friday they said they'd be okay with a 100 Town Homes the original request was up to 240 multif family units that could be apartments or town homes now they are trying to restrict it to 100 town homes right got you so why why why would they do that at this 11th hour that's the part you might not want to answer I can't answer that I'll have to allow the applicant to so that's that's an answer I'm going to need before I vote on this when the applicant comes up I'm just going to need some information on that's that's a drastic change in my opinion thank you Mr Irv sure councilman Dempsey um clay thank you um the uh I don't know if you could ex explain just for everybody's benefit the beersford extension and then if we have any more information on when that might be completed yes sir uh it actually started back in the 90s there was concern about uh the traffic that was already occurring back then on State Road 40 at that intersection with Kepler Martin Luther King the dot came in and studied it and they were looking at possibly widening 44 in that area or what were some Alternatives so they identified that if uh working with d in the county and cities and private land owners if you could take and direct traffic away from that intersection of 44 and Kepler do we have a visual of that anywhere C like an expanded view that I believe the applicant will I'm just look back the applicant's going to go over that in Greater detail but basically going from uh State Road 44 and shooting West into the existing uh segment of Beford here we go go okay this gives you an idea of what they're talking about so that that way those who are aware of this road could utilize that instead of 44 so what it does is it gives an alternative route to those who are traveling East and West on 44 to utilize beersford Avenue to either go to um Kepler St you know Martin Luther King or continue on to Blue Lake or actually even continue on further west on beersford okay um and this is all designed to alleviate some of that traffic stacking on 44 yes sir east or west of ke and this is already in the works correct there's been agreements between the city the County valuch County School Board and developers along this rideway to uh facilitate the development of it um Tad casar will have to give you a little bit better detail as far as the timing but there are segments of it where where private development is responsible for the construction and those are those areas and then there's the part that's to be built by valuch County utilizing impact fees and prop fair share so what you see is that in that particular situation uh we have an impact fee fund for this particular District we also have uh developments that are occurring in that area they have had to pay into a prop fair share for their propor amount that they could U utilize this so this gives you an idea of the time frames okay so I another's been a lot of concern about just existing traffic backups and then now with this new development it would be even worse but um I do know going eastbound in the morning traffic's backed up almost to Summit uh from that intersection is this designed to alleviate that backup you mean heading westbound yes sir westbound on 44 yes sir that's the whole point behind it's to provide an alternative route okay so this involves four different uh factors do we have any realistic idea when this will all be done and complete and this alternative route would be in place this slide shows that time frame and here comes Tad he can clarify specifically but that gives you an idea of what the time frames are good afternoon Tad kbear County engineer uh yeah as clay had said I prepared this exhibit that shows the four different segments that would extend beersford from its current termination at Blue Lake all the way over to State Road 44 uh you can see west of Kepler the initial section phase 1A is to be constructed by the developer to the South uh and then uh the county is working on everything west of that in the green all the way back over to Blue Lake that is uh prepared to go to construction bidding here shortly and uh we'll be starting construction as soon as they finish their section which is their section is currently scheduled to be complete sometime in August of this year uh ours will take approximately 6 to 8 months uh once they actually start on site so and we hope to be able to get started as soon as they get done August 1st 2nd whatever day it may happen to be east of Kepler Martin Luther King you can see the uh initial phase is going to be constructed by Lakewood Park Estates that'll start sometime middle part of this year they haven't given us a formal uh schedule for that section uh we are under design you approved the uh task assignment for our design consultant for the purple section uh at your last meeting and so we were just starting design on that portion uh it's Virgin Territory so we expect the design to actually move forward pretty quickly uh we'll move into construction as soon as that is done and uh we expect to be done as you see mid to late 2026 uh much like Blue Lake extension it's it'll move along pretty quickly simply because there's nothing do you have to worry about in terms of traffic you don't have to move move people you don't have to do anything along those lines so we'll actually be pretty quick uh overall so the one thing I would note to your question earlier about this being designed to help alleviate traffic on State Road 44 uh we have designed it that way and the reason or the way you see that is uh uh right now Summit is currently the road that terminates at uh State Road 44 and uh to make sure that we make it as easy for traffic wanting to go westbound we've realigned Summit to time to beersford so that if you're going Westbound and you want to go down beersford you only have to make it the left at the light and then you're straight down beersford as opposed to turning left on a summit then having to make another turn right turn on beersford so we have put some design considerations in there to make it as easy as possible to alleviate that traffic problem and this is designed to be two- laned for now correct with the possibility of being four laned in the future is that correct okay that's all I have thank you Ted councilman Reinhardt thank you chair toad it makes sense now because I was looking at some of the dates between 1A 2A and looking at the different dates that some are developers some are are us that are doing it um real quick question the slip Lanes kind of give us the idea of doing being able to do a right ter while more traffic can flows straight actually I say straight by going around the roundabout and then the other question um how many access points are are going into uh or out of this development uh and where are they do we know sure uh I think they have projected uh locations for the answering your second question first okay uh do do have projected locations that said when they come in for their uh final site plan we will actually go ahead and compare that in code and make any modifications as required in terms of the distance uh from the intersection uh as necessary so what's shown as far as we're concerned is conceptual we haven't commented on the exact locations the will need to be tweaks based on what uh the real world conditions actually tell us when they've got a full survey of the existing topographic conditions as well as uh comparing that to Dot's final construction plans for their roundabout so I didn't know if that was some of the reason why the beer for extension came into play or to utilize that as well well that's really just to help the existing traffic flow right but no idea well we won't know until we see the site plan right okay thank you so uh and your first question was about the slip yeah slip Lanes on roundout up at 44 and Kepler and uh yes that's the idea is that they have a free flow now in this case unlike hour roundabout to the South where you truly have a free flow condition where the the lane comes off and then rejoins uh in their situation they actually come to a stop and have to wait to see if there's any traffic so it's not quite as free flowing as uh as what Des ours but uh yes I just remember the comments made by uh councilman Santiago about a roundabout and that's what made me think of that because of the stoppage of that traffic and what not that's what I slightly different situation and signage is important not them not the fact that they'll observe the signage but okay all right thank you that's actually one of the things we're modifying on ours is to add more signage but yes thank you uh before I call on uh the deputy County Manager I wanted to clarify something you said he asked if this was two-lane and eventually four-lane you said it could be eventually four-lane you're talking just about the Beford extension yes sir not about uh Kepler uh well ultimately Kepler could if the traffic counts get to that point we could go ahead and widen that the at the when they do the roundabout there will be two lanes entering and two lanes leaving at each of the four legs so you know as it is right now it's basically a two-way uh two lanes total okay in each Direction uh much like we did with our roundabout to the South widen out to four lanes and uh go through the roundabout and then a short distance there after you neck back down to the two lanes in each of the four directions so okay thank you uh Deputy County Manager Suzanne kin it was a false flag okay okay I don't see any more questions but I want to ask uh the council and perhaps staff something this is um that the applicant doesn't speak and item five the applicant may not get to speak on item five if we don't approve this so I don't know if this if we if we vote this down there is no item five so I don't know if the uh if the council would like to um and he did not Mark did not turn in a a request to speak in fairness it would probably be appropriate to allow him to speak um item number four this is an applicant driven comprehensive plan Amendment so so while it is a legislative decision um the applicant is not just a participant they are they are a party to this matter right um so you know we usually give them the right to did you care to speak present okay you can present and then we uh then I'll suggest we we'll go to public comments before U we go further thank you Mr chairman uh members of the council appreciate the opportunity to be here this evening for the record Mark Watts with the law firm of cob uh 231 North Woodland Boulevard D land and um got a handful of people with me as well this evening primarily the the applicants um Redstone development which is our client John Schwarz and Maya Taylor are here with us um Randy Hudak with Zev Cohen our project engineer is here uh Joe riera uh with Luke Transportation Consulting our transportation Engineers here and naika husseini with also with our office who's been working on this I think she reminded me today this was the very first item she started working on when she joined the firm 5 years ago um which is kind of hard to believe that we've been at this particular property in this location for 5 years but I'm going to give you a little bit of that history because part of that time period is the evolution of the project uh in response to comments from both the staff residents in the area uh Mr Kent to your question even recent changes to uh you know to the project have resulted from those conversations so I'll touch on that Mr chairman with your discretion following staff's lead I'd like to simply just you know kind of talk about both of them and then we can break out and talk about each of the individual applications as the council deems fit that's okay so again um appreciate the opportunity to be here staff has done a great job as they always do of kind of giving you the the overview and the background of of why we're here and I do appreciate the the clarification on the pdrc vote we were really proud of that one vote um that we did get there but I think staff's summary to you was very accurate with regard to the concerns that were raised there most of us drive through that intersection you see what the traffic's like right now you see the issues with the backups and things of that nature and we're going to go into a lot of detail this evening about the things that are in the works you've already heard a lot of that from your staff there's been planning occurring literally since the 1990s with regard to the road Network out there that is coming to fruition um and so that's an important context to put it in but one of the other things that I'll touch on as I go through the presentation is that planning is not just the infrastructure it's not just the schools it's not just the roads it's also the uses that complement one another to reduce the trips on the roadway over time as well and so that's an important point that I'll I'll touch on as we move forward so what are we here talking about um we're we're here with a land use amendment to go from commercial or from Urban low which is what has been there since the early 1990s I think that Urban low intensity classification was put on the property when the original comprehensive plan was adopted in 1991 I believe was the year 90 990 um so we haven't gone back to readdress planning for this particular area of the community since 1990 um in the meantime things have changed certainly uh in you know we've got Kepler Road used to be a dirt road that stopped about a th000 ft short of 44 in 1990 now it's MLK extending further south and it has been the place that Dand has grown over the past 25 years by Design and we'll talk about that in a minute with the when we look at the 2050 plan um so it's time for us to update it it's time for us to look at what has occurred and address what the what the planning should be now we're asking to go to Urban High um as we mentioned before we originally had proposed a higher level of residential here we actually can fit what we have revised our application to under Urban medium but because we've advertised Urban high and that's how everything has been put together we added the map notation working with staff as the way to make sure that we're capping that density in the way that we've suggested so let me walk through this real quick we've got just over 40 acres of total land we're proposing a mixed use um shopping area with residential component uh significant areas of open space tree preservation Wetland preservation and integration of that existing um uh shopping or that existing reconstruction of the Circle K that was approved by this Council I believe about 8 years ago if I remember correctly um it was the roundabout was first talking uh starting to be talked about uh it Incorporated the design in the original rideway for the roundabout that was going to be necessary back at that point in time so it's actually shown in one of the videos that you'll see here in a second everything I just said right there on a slide I should have advance that sooner um but in any event that's what we're here asking for um we're here asking to update the planning that's occurred so that we can work with you and your staff in the city of Dand to plan for what will be there not tomorrow but what will be there in a couple years um because when you talk about the planning stage and the zoning stage you're not talking about authorizing something that's going to start construction tomorrow you're talking about how do we put this in the context of what the right thing is to plan for going forward into the future through our site plan process and everything else how do we then evaluate concurrency and things of that nature so we're not asking for a vote today that will result in shovels going into the ground tomorrow in fact it would excuse me probably be 10 months to a year before you see any movement on on development in that area which we'll talk about the timing of some of the road improvements happens to also fall after those improvements are in place or underway okay so I want to take you back I I was going back through our files as we got ready for the hearing and and actually the first plan that we had was it was from 2019 uh for this site but this is the original plan that was submitted as a PUD back in 2020 and if you look at um see if I can mark this up the way Clay did um if you look at you here's Kepler here here's 44 you'll note that there wasn't even at this point in time a roundabout that had been designed you're still Shing a signal at the intersection there um it was less property it was further to the West um but it had Wetland impacts um as you go West on this property there is a you know a drainage that goes up to the north and feeds into hammock Lake and then Blue Lake and then on up to the lake tales and ultimately up to Hall Creek and staff looked at the initial plan and said we want you to work on redesigning that plan if you can get additional property shift this so that you're not impacting the wetlands there so you know even though the wetlands were not particularly high quality based on the umam scores and everything else um staff wanted to hold the line and and see if we could shift the configuration of the property as a result of that we ended up going out getting additional property under contract there and additional property under contract there because it was all under the same ownership and ultimately they essentially said you know we're going to sell it we need to sell all of it together at one time so that's kind of the the initial starting point and how we began the progression that's taken us about five years to get to this point all right how do I eras all right I'm holding oh clear there we go okay so that brings us to where the the site plan Has Come Today again if you look at the the overall plan here this is the conceptual plan that's in the PD that's attached to it um we've added you know uh you know again the shopping center has shifted to the east we've redesigned to anticipate the design of the roundabout that's been included um we've added a residential component on a portion of the land that we were also acquiring or under contract to acquire from the the land owners the old fernery that was part of the hagstrom Holdings has been incorporated into this um incidentally the gas station parcel got smaller because their original plan was going to be on septic and because we've been able to work together with them and the other projects in the area now Central sewer is being extended out there so they'll be able to connect to that and Shrink their overall footprint the area that you see in green is where our existing Wetlands were it is where the the that flow way that goes up to the lakes that move north of here is so that we can make sure we're preserving and actually using that as part of our you know filtration system our storm water management system to make sure that the water quality um is protected as things move north again we've got our Engineers here if you have any particular questions on that so here's the the the kind of summary of those those kind of evolutionary steps you know we redesigned to eliminate the the impacts to the wetlands and up Upland buffers uh We've added in the conservation areas and tree preservation areas and and the requirement under the PD that those go into a conservation easement the reduction from 240 multif family units to 100 if you went back and listened to the discussion at pdrc one of the things and I think and and this is something that we have heard from members of the community repeatedly as we've worked through this process ever since we added that multif family component because the extra land that we needed to work with a shopping center is necessary here we started meeting with some of the members of the community associations out there five years ago and again the consensus has always been shopping or commercial uses are okay west of let's keep that as a Treaty Line let's not encroach towards Lake wiet West of Kepler and they're a necessary thing to provide that service and that use for the growth and development that's occurring out in that side of town um but what we heard from the planning board and pdrc was concerned about the roundabout uh and concerned about the the intensity of the residential and so we made the decision finally last week um after talking with some additional residents and talking with some of the other folks in the area they kept pointing to and you saw it in an email that came from one of the residents that that lives in the area I think about a week and a half ago you know the residential component was again the thing that everybody kind of kept pointing to shopping center is something we can justify there the residential component was something that they had concern with and so we made the decision that we could reduce it down to the minimum that we could we could go to um you know with regard to the planning for you know appropriately planning for the property and switch it from Apartments to town homes to try and and make that that update so we've done that we've also added things like dark you know compliance with International dark sky standards that was another request that came in I think from one of our community meetings um and we've gotten a little bit farther ahead than you where you typically would be at this point in time with regard to our traffic analysis we don't have a final approved traffic you know Tia yet you usually wouldn't get that until you're in your site plan process but we have it it's been we've got the the Tia has been done we have comments back from your staff and so we're ahead of the game with regard to that process so that we know what additional improvements may be necessary as we move forward to be able to meet your concurrency tests because we know the things that are already in the in the process and that are already funded but there may be additional things that this project also has to fund but let me talk to you about the need so I put this together again kind of going back to that idea that you know the the current comp plan land use that's there has been there since 1990 a lot of things have changed since 1990 um obviously you've got all I'm going mark it up down here none of Victoria Park existed when our current land use was put in place in addition to that each of the starred locations that you see here in yellow are are residential projects that have been part of D's planning um over the past several years beersford reserve Trinity Gardens Victoria Reserve Lakewood Park Summit Place and crestwind with the exception of Summit Place every one of the rest of those is already under construction now um those have already Broken Ground in our building suit place is in the plat process but we're processing a PUD Amendment for it currently now how does that relate to our traffic concerns the green stars that are on this screen show you where the current shopping centers are in Dand so all of the development that's occurred on the east side of town only has the option currently of going to uh the US 1792 Woodland Boulevard Corridor to shop you got Publix on the south W Walmart neighborhood Center when Dixie out at at 15a and and u u 44 and then the Publix's in the Walmart up on the North End of town you have to plan for the additional uses that support the residential growth otherwise all you're doing is sending the trips that are going to be generated anyway through town to those other locations and that's what the land 2050 plan uh talks about staff mentioned it in um the staff the the presentation materials um but this is the plan and so clay made reference to the greater Dand area act Dand is pretty unique in the state in the 70s we adopted this thing that says where are we going to grow in our lifespan as a city where are we going to plan to expand into how do we plan for the utilities to serve that this is the the most recent iteration of that discussion this was done in 2009 as the result of a bunch of workshops that were hosted by the city the county was invited to those as well I know some staff members from the county that participated in those back then but the basic premise was everything that's in the darker Orange area you see here is where we encourage higher intensity development everywhere that's in the lighter yellow is maintaining those existing densities not increasing the densities in those areas but the red dots that you see in here are specifically called out on the plan as mixed use nodes and the blue arrow points to this corner and what that means is that that and and this is the vision statement from the Delan 2050 plan I thought it was you know relevant you know it talks about establishing mixed use centers and supporting alternative modes of transportation to result in a more livable and sustainable community so the theory the central organizing theory of this plan is add these mixed use nodes throughout the city so that you don't just have a linear North South Commercial Corridor you have more opportunities to make those trips going to those places shorter so I'm getting close to the end I promise um traffic traffic traffic traffic that's what we've heard you know repeatedly through this in you know this process and I think if we were sitting here where we were five years ago from a funding standpoint saying we want to do all these things without an answer to the question of when is the roundabout being funded how's it being funded what's the construction timing without answers to those questions on the beersford extension I think I would be I would have a much harder time standing before you in passing the red face test saying we're going to get it handled what's the benefit of 5 years of planning has also included the benefit of 5 years of coordinating knowing what's happening in this area we've got the you know privilege of being involved with all of the various planning that you've seen going on you know with the development that's going on in this area and I think one of the things that that gives us the benefit of as a firm is we can help work with the city and the county knowing that this particular Improvement doesn't just serve one thing but it serves multiple things that are happening in in the area so let me talk about that for just a second the roundabout every one of us of us has experienced the delays that you you currently experience sitting in that um you know going to and from the interstate on 44 I live a block North of 44 that's my road um so I experience it along with everybody else this is the Dot's counts and projections of the reduction in delays as a result of the construction of the roundabout it's hard to to see that there but this is based on their projection of growth and the volumes at the PM peak hour in 2040 that um the reduction on the on the the afternoon delays is cut at least in half and the morning delays is cut down to roughly 20% of what the or 205% I'm attorney not engineer so I don't do math as quickly but 25 to 30% of of what the current um signal would continue to generate um I think I can play this for you this is actually the animation this is a video that dot created that takes the PM peak hour from their projections and runs it through the roundabout so you can see what the actual afternoon Rush Hour volume looks like going through the roundabout so this is an extraordinarily important Improvement for this area and to facilitate the additional uses that really are necessary necessary out there to support the growth that's occurred into land um let's see if it plays here there we go so again this is PM peak hour based on the do's projections of 2040 traffic volumes the other thing in addition to kind of The Continuous Flow that you see here that keeps the backups from building out to Summit or out to Hill um the other thing that I think is important to see here is the additional pedestrian facilities the additional bike facilities um you see significant crosswalks you see the islands that provide safe havens for pedestrians as they're Crossing through uh the intersections um this is a much better design and I I get it pdrc one of the things that they made clear was they really don't like roundabouts um this is coming this is what's funded this actually will start construction I believe right now based on the do schedule they're supposed to uh give the green light to the contractor to start at the end of the month next week and this will start construction over the next year and will be completed by 2025 okay can we go back to the presentation for a second at the same time um if you've driven that area at all recently um you'll also notice there's other construction going on let's see here there we go um this is an active construction project dot is in the in the process of resurfacing widening and adding pedestrian and safety facilities from Hill Avenue to Interstate 4 um that's taken yesterday if you've driven back and forth and wondered what are they doing is this a storm water project what is this this is actually that project going forward and this is scheduled to be completed by the end of this year so again well in advance of any impacts of the proposed development we're here talking about tonight beersford extension this is one that I think has been a really great example of collaboration um because of how well everybody has worked together um Tad already went through this so I won't I won't go into fine detail on this but basically the green section is you've got it designed you're getting ready to build that with the money that's come in through various prop share dollars and other funding sources uh the orange section is under construction now I'll show you an aerial of that in a second the blue section is under construction now both of those will be completed before I think one the blue is in May and the and the orange section's in August of this year uh and then finally the purple section um is one frankly I'm proud of um because when you last as a council approved the original alignment for where the beersford extension was going to go um you actually approved it coming in and intersecting right there and some people thought that was a great idea some people thought it was a horrible idea I was in the horrible idea Camp as were some other people um but one of the things that we were able to do when we were working on the Lakewood Park project down here was dedicate additional ride of way that accommodated either the extension directly to Summit or the extension to 44 there the county the city and the school board were sort of at loggerheads at that point in time on how to get the additional rideway across the Schoolboard property so the extra rideway that our client dedicated to go to the original route was traded to the school board in October and you got the right of way to connect into Summit and you're now in design on that and that's all scheduled to be in place within 3 years so I think that's an example of us all working together to make sure the road Network that's been planned since 1996 is now moving forward under construction okay and I promised you some pictures so I took these yesterday I bought a drone like four years ago this the first time I've used it um it's great I'm going to use it a lot um but anyway so the one on the picture on your left is looking down the beersford extension area that's been cleared you can see the drainage um pipes and everything that are in place SP that's the construction that'll be completed by August um looking uh to the on the other side on the right hand side is the view from MLK looking to the east um that is under construction you can already see the intersection was constructed actually with our project's first developments the Victoria Reserve project and the Lakewood Park project got together and jointly built the intersection improvements when they were doing the turn Lanes so they didn't have to come back and build in the roadway twice um so that's all underway now from that location to where our site is for the application in front of you that green arrow represents where the shopping center is to support the residential development you see occurring there on the front left that's the Trinity Gardens project under construction now so I emailed this to you I know that you you had gotten some emails about um some of the um some questions about traffic so I tried to give you a color-coded summary of it I've got a a full-blown traffic engineer here that is much better at explaining these things uh than I am but the key thing I think from the traffic standpoint is um you see some really big numbers when you're talking about you know um traffic you know projects of this nature 13,504 trips that's the increase or the the the the gross number of average daily trips that a project like this could generate but the developments occurring the area you've got things like internal capture um somebody goes to the grocery store they may stop at the coffee shop they may go to the dry cleaner they may go to multiple locations within that shopping center so you don't have to count those trips every time because you have all those things at one location you can kill multiple birds with one stone if you will um passby also on the internal Capt capture obviously the residential is huge um because if you have the residential adjacent to it those folks don't have to get on the road Network to go to the grocery store they're right there next to it they can keep that as a private trip um passby trips passby was a huge number in in the analysis here 30 200 trips in that ADT analysis that are that are basically trips that are already on the road Network and already passing I'm sorry 5200 trips my eyes are getting worse um 5200 trips so of that 135 5200 are already driving past this location um so you're capturing those you're shortening that trip and you're not sending them through town to another location and then you've got some existing trips from the site that also kind of further reduce that so the end of the day you know the net new trips in the analysis is 5200 but if you look at it from the standpoint of what creates trips and what's just capturing trips from going from another location uh it's really only the residential and this in this analysis it was looking at the apartment still it's about 1100 trips in reality when we reduce it down to 100 Town Homes it's about five or 600 trips so in that whole analysis those are the only new trips being created that aren't pass by trips or trips that are going someplace else within the road Network now so in conclusion probably the best words you heard me say um in conclusion um you know what we're asking you to do is work with us to continue planning in a manner consistent with the Del 2050 plan it's a very specific plan it has very specific goals those goals are ones that I've heard everybody up here talk about that we need to be better with regard to planning with regard to integrating our you know our our planning so that we are shortening our trip lengths and providing for alternate modes um you know reducing the need to always get in a car to go a long distance to where your destination is we're providing a grocery option in an area that doesn't have one um providing a transitional use that residential use on the north um then transitions up to the church that's to the north of that and onto the rural lots that are north of that um we are not asking you to to absolve us of responsibility for concurrency um we aren't at the point in your process where we test for concurrency yet that is where our Tia is due that is where we then come back and say Here's the additional prop share so all the improvements that I've already talked about tonight um those are things that are already funded the additional improvements that may be required by our project have to come back to you in this in the form of a prop share agreement and that's the next step in the process should you approve us this evening um we've tried to make sure that we've heightened our environmental standards we've heightened the lighting standards to meet the additional requests that we had from the area and so we we'd ask for your support in approving both the land use and the resoning here this evening with that David I think the only question that I didn't answer was what is that additional piece of land up to the north um that's the extension there's a paper Road there it's the extension of New York Avenue it actually aligns if you know when you're heading out of town to the East and you get to that little gas station that somebody ran into a couple months ago there's a dirt road that goes north that's the extension of New York Avenue and on the plat at least it continues up and goes around on the north end of that property so it that plus some additional land basically intercedes between the North what we call the thumb of this project and uh hammock lake so with that I'll stop I think this is the first time I've done an evening hearing with you I've been here for other small items on the agenda but not an evening hearing my first hearing as an attorney 26 years ago was an evening hearing on staff for the county attorney's office in penis we finished at 130 so I will do my best to be shorter we're not talking about grease Waste Management tonight so uh David Santiago do you have a question yes sir okay thank you Mr chairman um you know one of the other points that I asked clay about was um uh design standards yes and I wrote down something that I agree with you and I think you said that this Council has said is we need to do better yes and and I think one of the areas that we need to do better is in design standards I realize we're not dealing with number five here right now do you prefer that I deal with that in the next conversation I'm happy to answer your question whenever you want to ask it um but I think that certainly would be something you can approve through AUD or you can address through a PUD um that's what I thought I don't know if you had any conceptuals ready uh yet to show um you know I I realize that most developers probably wouldn't like to be pinned down yeah to saying you know show me now what the Project's going to look like um but I believe strongly that that's how communities that are seeing these nicer developed uh properties are are holding them to that standard so um I'd like to find a way to incorporate that into the Pud let me just okay say that very clearly so I think that simple answer is we we have to meet your non residential design standards that's referenced in the Pud I don't think we would have any problem attaching our elevations and showing you what the building looks like and everything else I don't have that with me this evening but we know it's a prototype of this particular Grocer's new store um and it looks really nice yeah and I I think though Mark um I think those standards if if what we've seen being built over the last couple years is the same standard it's probably not good enough in my opinion I don't know how this Council feels but um in my opinion if it's if that's what is going to be followed um I'd like to utilize the benefit of a PUD to negotiate a uh more enhanced facility because that's how they're doing it in other communities right and we shouldn't necessarily accept the bare minimum when we're doing a PUD a PUD is basically a negotiated tool for us to say okay let's go to the table and negotiate what we'd like to see so um I know we have to hear from the public so I won't give my general thoughts yet until I hear back from them but let's talk more about that and I think I'm going to bring it back again to the council at the next vote okay councilman Robbins uh thank you chair uh thank you for that thorough presentation it was uh well put together I just want to go over a quick summary just so I have everything uh in my mind um squared away um if at any time uh at the end just tell me if I misspoken or mistaken sure uh it's been identified as an urbanized or future urbanized area um it's a DOT controlled Road uh traffic improvements will be made um it reduced density almost in half is what it appears and it also caps the density is that accurate yes uh reducing the trips and delays yes uh Wetlands protected 100% that's correct um is consistent with the lands vision and service boundaries uh and this was uh planned and kind of designed for this area longterm we're talking it's part of the 2009 2050 plan that the city adopt and uh you just uh residential component bears fruit extension um and all that stuff was accurate yes okay that's all thanks that's all the questions I see for you at this point um so there may be some questions that come up after um public and we may want there may some engineering questions for example that we want to bring an engineer up so if we can just Reserve that opportunity yes that's that's that's likely um I think we have six people that want to speak unless you've gotten received any more okay first we have Paul Richardson uh afternoon Council my name is Paul richon of the Lan I'll rise in obduction to the supposed resoning here um for the East land Marketplace project if you look at the map to the north of it is a church and wetlands and undeveloped area south of it is a 7-Eleven Southeast is the animal hospital and directly east from it again woodlands in in a lake uh I'm not opposed to progress or growth but what what concerns me is is that we're putting a tow houses and a shopping center where uh in a place where it has no business being it would be an island onto itself in other words if uh if this was built and new own as proposed then it uh that's what all will be around it uh like I said again I'm not opposed to growth but it's I don't think it's appropriate where this location is again like I said if you look at the map to directly north of it there's a church and and undeveloped areas and so uh they they might have uh cross all the te thoughted all the eyes so the staff has to uh say that they uh support the project but listen to your pdrc they saw something in this project that I see that is uh is not an appropriate location for this particular development if it was on International Speedway Boulevard I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was just like a simple restaurant as in keeping with the other locations around it then I wouldn't have a problem with it if it probably even was a subdivision being built there might not have a not might not have a problem with it but tow houses and a grocery store and a shopping center it just doesn't fit it doesn't match and uh not this not beyond the traffic but also if you look you drive around the county there are empty storefronts everywhere some places where uh people need uh stores need be filled now I'm not saying uh they they won't be able to fill them if they build it but other locations need to have store uh uh businesses moved in before we build more locations thank you very much Sharon Cook after Sharon will be Paul Valentine just so you can be ready um I would like to C ask the council members I'm Sharon Cook and I live at 300 Lake Charles Road and I would like to ask the council members if they got my email which I sent to each and every one of you and there were other people in our neighborhood that also and we all brought up different um problems against this development does any did y all get my email well let me try to summarize some of this stuff okay well number one this development supposedly met with people in our community now I've lived on Lake Charles for 30 years and I've lived in valuch County just about all my life and I haven't talked to any of the Neighbors on Lake Charles or Forest Drive that talk to any of these people so who did they talk to because the first thing we heard about it was when it was coming up here to the peel whatever that thing is and all that and we came to that meeting and um another thing I want to bring up is the fact that you know everything was going great around here all pie in the sky and all this and then Along came covid and the whole world just about stopped well I believe that before we put high in the sky here we need some concrete roads the beersford extension and you think the round about is going to be an answer talk to the city or whoever police is the roundabout at Orange Camp and they will tell you that about every week they have two or three accidents there and they don't have near the traffic that 44 and Kepler have I live in that area and from 7:00 in the morning until 9:30 you can't get out on Kepler or 44 unless somebody's nice and um in the afternoon from 4:00 until 6:30 you can't get in or out either direction and they are saying they're going to build 13, 339 more much more traffic on a road that I cannot make a doctor's appointment before 9:30 because I can't get to it right here in Dand and uh I don't know when they do this if the roundabout ever comes about because we've been having since 1996 they've been going to build the beersford extension and either the co we run out of money the states broke whatever and I have heard that the state is not planning to do anything about the beersford extension until 2040 or 2050 they've got it somewhere between 2040 and 2050 so I think before we put you know take tickets to send to the Moon we need to have some place for them to live up there thank you very much your time is up thank you well well expressed we have uh Paul Valentine and following Paul will be Jim Shepard uh Paul Valentine Delan Florida um uh Mr chairman uh Council and staff uh I'm here today to strongly appro uh this proposed land resoning and the associated project on North Kepler and 40 before lots of powerful land owners and lawyers have been working hard to push this project through so thank you for listening to me and the rest of us who live in the area who are going to be adversely affected by this project in my opinion um elephant in the room is uh North Kepler Road um you know it's well known that North Kepler is a problem for traffic has been for a long time a problem for traffic on the east side of the land traffic jams difficulty P pulling in and out accidents or common occurrences um this two-lane road is the only re reliable means of getting to us92 from 44 um and this project will dump another 13,000 plus whatever it is uh cars into the general vicinity each and every day um almost doubling existing traffic um this doesn't even include the additional traffic from the 650 Homes at crestwind and all that's going on down on South Kepler and Martin Luther King um it's certainly not uh going to make anything better for those of us who live there now and nothing said here tonight will improve the traffic on North Kepler Road um just because uh there's going to be a new roundabout at this intersection really doesn't mean uh we need to immediately open the area up to high density development That's a classic definition of urban sprawl build it and they will come um the roundabout may solve some of the immediate congestion but it will instantly make things worse for those of us Liv on North Kepler Road um not taking any traffic away from North Kepler but in fact making it a destination for where people are going to come to to make the traffic worse it's not clearing it out it's bringing more traffic in um I'm opposed to the size and scope of this project and I'm opposed to the resoning uh from agricultural to Urban high density currently most of the property in this development is zoned for one home per acre of land and now they want to increase that to 10 homes per acre a thousand % increase that's not a small deviation housing densities of this size are not needed on North Kepler Road and should be relocated south or east where there's more room for growth um there's no reasonable transition from the proposed high density housing and the rural nature of the neighborhood um the vote today is not about this project but about resoning uh we see what happens in Orman Beach when you don't take time in thinking about resoning and what the zoning is um so I ask you again please deny this zoning and planning changes for this project take a look at it and uh give it more thought and figure out what it's going to do for those of us who live there thank you thank you Jim Jim Shepard followed by uh Christine uh levings good afternoon my name is Jim Shephard and I live on North Kepler Road into to land one mile from this proposed project um my assessment and the request for resoning is that is not consistent with Comprehensive plan chapters 9 and 21 and must be denied I'll go into chapter nine first and I'm going to read from you chapter n of the comprehensive plan 9.1.1 fuchia County shall fund and complete comprehensive Watershed studies for all areas of currently developed or developing with essentially Urban land uses it goes on fucha County shall develop a comprehensive surface and ground water watershed management plan within 6 months after the completion and Adoption of the comprehensive drainage Watershed studies all land use and development approval decisions which impact Water Resources in valuch County shall conform to the comprehensive surface and groundwater shed management plan and so we've got the the the little Haw Creek Watershed which extends from 472 all the way up to 92 this is where this is where this proposed development is located vucha county is not funded the Watershed um study and there's no um comprehensive service and groundwater management plan so the shs in in chapter n uh have not met and this this should be denied as far as chapter 21 goes I um asked Mr Irvin for a how they determine that seven of the eight criteria are met and if you look at it through the eyes of the developer that may be true but if you do a more fair and balance assessment of chapter 21 um the the um threshold of of four criteria would not be be met if you look at the first six of the eight criteria in in chapter 21 none of those are I mean none of those are met in my opinion and that's not a real difficult way of looking at it um the last thing that I'm going to just mention is uh the same thing that Paul Paul mentioned and that is you've got Kepler road which is designed for 177,50 daily trips for a level of service of d we're adding 13,504 to the 2021 traffic study of 15,646 trips which is well over the 17,50 trips of um that the road was designed for thank you for listening thank you Christine Christine levings did Christine not wait we have ruthanne Fay then and after ruthanne we'll have um Maggie ardido since I was here last time I spoke with the man at Circle K I understand it's too late to stop your decision for the intersection at Kepler 44 and he told me you're planning a roundabout there too any Building 100 town homes or whatever else is going to make the intersection worse who's going to live there more Northern tar families illegal immigrants I don't know I asked you that time last time have you asked police about the number of accidents at uh ke and Orange Camp drivers don't understand the yield signs I live in Victoria Gardens there are lots of accidents there the roundabouts at 44 near the river in Walmart and Woodland work because they have limited access for the side streets I don't think it will work at Kepler and 44 any better than at orge Camp thank you Margaret Ido thank you my name is margarit ardito I live at 532 West Florence in Dand uh fuchia county is thinking 2050 and I commend all of you for that and and one of the great principles of future thinking is multimodal Intermodal transportation that means protecting people that are traveling in other modes outside of personal vehicles at the heart of the 2020 Vision are two things a Regional Trail system and a sun rail and those two things are going to Future proof us into 2050 we have a County Trail master plan developed by our own Tim Bailey and it's an excellent plan it shows clearly that one of the main pillars is uh the the St John's river to se Loop Florida State Sun Trail which forms a u shape around fucha County and in addition to that there are are three what we call spine routes which would be for active transportation across the eastern and the Western bands of that and one of those is Route 44 we just heard tonight that we're going to be diverting traffic from Route 44 onto barisford Avenue we've been saying for years that be barisford Avenue is a better route for a separated Trail now it's clear that it's going to be the primary route because New York 44 is very hard in the area urban area we may never get to a separated Trail there so we have to focus on barisford road for a separated Trail and I'm calling on each of you to follow through and future proof our County by making sure that we do have a 12T wide separated Trail along from the SunRail station through the city of D land and someway to New Smyrna Beach I leave it up to you whether that should go better along Highway 44 or along barisford Avenue but one way or another we need that separated Trail thank you thank you uh John Nicholson John Nicholson Daytona Beachside um A lot's been said about the traffic A lot's been said about the roundabout uh I oppose the roundabout in my city because it was on um A1A and ISB and with the traffic stopping at the beach it would back up into the intersection uh there was also roundabout when my mother was ill and I spent seven years in Miami that I would go through a roundabout and because it was a traffic light will block away it always backed up all right and in Daytona Beach we had seab Breeze you'd go over the seab breeze bridge and you'd stop dead especially if the tourists were there they wouldn't know what to do right it was only one lane so they could either go straight or make a right and they wanted to go straight but they didn't want to go into the intersection so like it was a really mess small U roundabouts work in small areas large roundabouts work in large areas although I'm not comfortable in uh the roundabouts in uh outside the Vatican when you go there it is just like those Italians don't know how to drive the uh in Boston they don't know how to drive only people in Daytona Beach know how to drive but roundabouts work for everybody else all right so if it works for everybody else it's going to work here all right when you look at the system it's large enough for to get two cars going at the same time you've got one right down the street at wmart how many accidents do you have at that roundabout virtually none they redid Oakridge next to my house and every month maybe twice a month there's a traffic accident at this nice redone road which is a straight Lane and for nobody to get hit but they get hit all the time so I don't expect the the roundabout to be a problem and lastly the Tona Beach made the problem we have communities of single family homes everywhere all right and the prices are going crazy in Margaritaville it started out $250,000 that was a couple of years ago now you can't touch it for $600,000 that's not affordable so when you keep saying well let's keep this single family let's keep this single family you're only screwing yourselves because the neighborhood the prices will go up with single families you have to have multiple families because people have children they will eventually leave the house and they need a place to stay and starter Homes at a half a million or 3/4 of a million is not feasible for somebody 20 years old so I'm asking you to look holistically for the future because this community needs it just like Theona be should have done so help them out and do what is needed thank you okay uh mark would you like to take some time to respond thank you Mr chair um just a couple we obviously heard a lot of discussion about traffic and again we started this and so I've got Joe riera here with us um who's our traffic engineer with with Luke Transportation just to to address any questions that you might want to hear with regard to traffic and kind of how the analysis is done and how we move on from from here um but I do want to address a couple of the very specific things um U Miss Cook asked about when we had meetings when we reached out your your code doesn't require us to do things like neighborhood meetings and everything else but we did send out notices um to every home within I think your standard distance from from the property inviting uh everybody to a a neighborhood meeting we held that at the sandboard center on September 5th of 2023 going into before we had any of our hearings um just to try and provide that information in addition to that we had additional meetings with the lake beersford or lake wiet civic association beginning back in probably 2019 with the initial um you know beginning of this project um we've had multiple follow-up meetings with them as the iterations of the project has changed we've met with Miss Derry Astra Derry is's at area resident we've met with um Ken Ritter uh most recently who had become a you know I think he was the guy that showed up on channel two before the pdrc hearing we reached out to him and said hey let's sit down let's make sure you understand because one of the things that he had some specific concerns about was traffic and so we wanted to make sure he was aware of how all the parts and pieces and Ken great guy he was on the plan board for the city of land he understands the the planning process you know I think it made a lot of sense once we said here's the things that are happening and the improvements that are underway um with regard to the general traffic um Joe I all of a sudden we've got we've got graphics up I'll get to that in a second um we uh um we've had a lot of conversations obviously back and forth about traffic and we're not done having the conversations about traffic as I said in the in the inter um or in the in the initial presentation we know um that had I been here 5 years ago before the roundabout was funded before any of those other improvements were coming out of the ground as we speak this would have been a taller order with regard to traffic as it sits now the infrastructure that we need uh is underway it is funded it is moving forward with construction um in addition to that um we're continuing to look at the traffic so Joe I know I don't know if you can give us a 30- second synopsis of what you have to do moving forward with regard to the analysis of the traffic for concurrency but can you talk a little bit just briefly about what's in your package what you're looking at with regard to the existing vested stuff that's you know um that you have to count in the background and how you're proceeding forward yes I will Joe Roo with uh the director of Transportation Planning with Luke transportation in uh 29 East Pine Street uh Orlando Florida I'm a transportation planner um one key thing to remember about um the traffic is that there is an existing development on this site and we have to use what is known as The Institute of Transportation Engineers trip generation uh report which has got like 1,400 different uh uses in there and we use that as a basis to come up with trip generation and So based on the existing land uses it's approximately 3,100 existing daily trips and the thing about daily trips is you have to remember those are two ways trips that means that there's basically 1,500 trips going in 1500 trips going out so when they're talking about 13,000 trips it's half of that is going in and half is going out and the other thing to think about is that you have the existing 3,000 uh trips we're proposing to have 13,000 so automatically of that 13,000 because we're looking at the new development that we go in part of that replaces the existing convenience store and so you subtract out those existing trips from those 13,000 and so the other thing is Market talked about internal capture those are people that are on site and they go in between they don't leave the road leave the site they don't get on the external roadway and so when you subtract out those also the passer by because people you know you're going down the street and you say oh I want some coffee there's a Starbucks you stop in there and you continue on your way that's a pass by trip so we subtract out those the county has standards that we have to follow when we do our studies that say you can only cap your internal capture at 20% we use a procedure that's developed by the Institutes of Transportation Engineers it calculates internal capture and it actually gave me a higher number than that but I capped my internal capture at 20% because that's the county guideline same thing with passby it also says that your pass by trips should never exceed more than 14% of the adjacent Street traffic and so there's two streets here Kepler and 44 are the adjacent street so we we again caped at that so we've artificially reduced our internal capture and reduced our passby and that's how we ended up with 5900 basically 6,000 new trips that represents the actual net increase that'll occur with this development not to 13,000 it's actually just s of 6,000 daily trips and of those 6,000 we also then have to subtract the existing net new trips because we do the same thing with with the existing in the existing development there was no internal because it didn't have that but it did have high passby so when you adjust those trips and it ended up being a little over 700 uh trips so when you reduce our 6,000 down in in reality you're only looking at about uh what is our number 5215 daily trips but again that's divided in half because half of them are coming in and half of them are going out so we need to keep that in mind when you think about the net impact on the surrounding area and in terms of um dealing with the county and county is in currently on review they agree with our trip Generation table um when I was looking at projecting traffic for this intersection I was using the do's projections for the roundabout and and interpolated between their 2040 and our existing counts that we had done to come up with um our background traffic for this development which also included a bunch of um other developments that dot had assumed as part of their projected traffic because they used design traffic for 2040 and so that's the negotiation we're having with the county because there Pro the dot process is slightly different in terms of growing backround traffic than what uh they currently apply in terms of just using like historical growth and and so we're just fine-tuning that and that's why it's still under review so if you have any other other questions I can be happy to don't go too far okay all right um so I think the um you know with regard to traffic I just wanted to point out again that you know that 13 number it's a it's a big number when you look at it but there's a lot more to that um with how the analysis is done and again we're not asking to put shovels in the ground tomorrow with your uh decision here this evening we're asking to continue the planning process and move into the technical part where we finalize that Tia finalize the prop share and the mitigation that results from that so that we can continue to add to the network and and serve this this part of the community um last comment that I wanted to make uh there was the gentleman that spoke Mr Shepard spoke about the Watershed studies um obviously we know that's important we know the hall Creek the entire reason this site was redesigned was to preserve that Hall Creek Hall Creek floodway and and um slew that runs up along the west side so if you know where this site is is immediately on the west side of the site is the fpnl easement that runs up to the north and that sort of acts as the channel That A lot of that that's the the western edge of that channel so that Conservation Area that we're preserving is kind of the Eastern Edge the Western Edge is that that U um where that easement runs and that runs up to hammock Lake and into the Chain of Lakes running North to Miller Lake and under a 92 uh and along the airport and land so we're extraordinarily cognizant of it your staff has protected that specific specifically as we went through this process and that's what led to the redesign and the project that you have in front of you today so with regard to architecture yeah thanks for gesturing um this is the this is the current I mentioned that that this particular um grocer we know who it is this is a a new prototype for them um one of the things that I think is particularly interesting about this one is it's got the mezzanine inside so if you've been in something like a Whole Foods where you have a deli and then you can go sit up in a balcony that looks you know kind kind of gives you a place to sit within the the store and look down and and kind of see the rest of the store um that's one of the features with regard to this particular um prototype and floor plan we're happy to include architecture as as an exhibit to the Pud if you'd like to to add that um this is the the building design that we're currently working with um so happy to take in any feedback on that um you know I don't again that that hasn't come up at any point prior to this point in the discussion so you know we're happy to address it however you'd like to with that I'm G ma'am I'm I'm sorry you you could fill out another Form but you can't just speak from the audience I'm I'm sorry we have to have some order in the in the room okay um so with that again um happy to answer any other further questions you might have um we're doing our best to work within your process we think again if you look at the long-term planning in this area this is specifically what has been um called for since at least the 20 2009 2050 plan was put together um and we're working within you know the plans for infrastructure that have been a long time incoming for this part of the city so okay I looks like you have some questions actually I don't know if these are all questions Matt Reinhardt yes thank you chair the the roundabout issue just so we're clear because I heard some some questions from some of the comments ments made by some of the citizens that is not a county project that's an FD fdot project correct that's a do project I knew that but I just want to clarify that because there was some concern about that that's not something we're planning that's something already in the works um and if this development didn't go through was there any other talk about what else could they do with that property um you know I think if you look at what the property's current entitlements are you know it's Urban low intensity um that allows under your comprehensive plan for unit an acre of development as a maximum per acre um plus some neighborhood commercial I think it's 5 to 8,000 square ft somewhere in that range square feet I was just curious okay so that's that's you know why you've got the the reconstructed convenience store at that at that location so the property is not without entitlements the question is and I think you heard one of the one of the speakers said it do you want to keep doing single family spreading out everywhere or do you want to do the things that are contemplated make most of the property in that plan so the store is talking about doing their Redevelopment fdot is talking about doing the the roundabout we have our plans for beersford yes the developers have their plans for beersford I noticed that some of it with respect to beersford had a timeline yes I get that but what we don't know is the timeline necessarily for the roundabout for the store reconstruction if this development was to go through for that so I understand about the trips totally understand that and and I know that construction the trips are shortlived with respect to construction vehicles but there's that also that comes into play on and off the road that that hinders traffic as well so let me address the dot timing on the roundabout um so do has a published construction schedule with regard to the roundabout they are giving the green light on their contract for it on on February 28th uh next week okay um they are showing that they're going to be mobilizing um in March and starting to move forward I believe the construction finishes up sometime around December January and they are scheduled to do their final rideway surveys for their as builts in SE in July or June of 2025 if I remember that schedule correctly okay so and just to Overlay that with the schedule for moving forward with the development of this site um you know if we move through the rezoning process and get into site plan site plan we would expect to take the remaining part of this year so that means that that through 2024 keep forgetting what year we're in um we would be working on design and permitting uh you would likely not see any construction activity begin until the first quarter of 2025 so right about the time the roundabout is finishing is when you would see this site begin to develop okay um and then it would take about 10 9 10 11 months somewhere in that range to build the site so you're really looking at fourth quarter of 2025 or beginning of 2026 which also corresponds with your timing for the completion of that last leg of beer thank [Music] you councilman Dempsey Mark uh congratulations on learning how to use a drone maybe you can teach me someday but um in that Drone footage that you just showed there's a lot of undeveloped subdivisions yes um in that you know I go down that road all the time and both on the east and west sides I mean there's massive subdivisions coming in that are just now breaking ground um does your traffic study account for those houses once they get their cosos uh yes sir we did um as part of of our we have to submit a methodology and um as part of that and when when I was looking at using the dot volumes for the roundabout I also looked at what they had used in developing their background traffic for 20 2040 and it did include a number of of developments like wiet um I don't have all the names I forgot to bring yeah but I mean there is a number of other developments that were occurring right at this intersection because they also included a develop or commercial development at this intersection and it wasn't necessarily this one but they did put commercial there and so when I was looking at their volumes I backed out the commercial they had so I could overlay this developments back into the traffic study that I was doing and so um but as I said they had a number of other developments within the area they and then they actually looked at for uh the beersford extension they looked at it four different ways one was the assumption that it didn't go in one was the assumption that only the West leg went in between Blue Lake and Kepler or some or yeah Blue Lake at Martin Luther King and the third one was if they the East section went in but not the West so that would went from Martin Luther to Summit and then they also looked at the full scenario when we we were doing our methodology with the county at the time the funding was still out there or the it was unknown because as part of our study we can only assume something that's been programmed and funded within the next three years if there's a plan development that's five years out and everyone's sure it's going to get developed we can't assume that in our our project or our analysis for background because we don't know that in those last two years the funding could be pulled but normally within the first three years of a project if the funding is there it gets constructed so for my analysis I only have beersford in between Blue Lake and Martin Luther King for my analysis ter when we ran the model for this development do when they did their analysis as I said they had four different ones they went back through and looked at how they wanted to do their numbers they actually developed design traffic for each of those scenarios and so when I was looking at my analysis I used their uh projected volumes for the 2040 for the extension of only up to Martin Luther King between Blue Lake because that's all I could assume in my development and that's how we modeled it and so I then I enter in in and that was and so um yeah make a long story short that or to longer that's answer your question okay well let me ask you um just curiosity sake uh is that beersford extension going to be another roundabout or they actually who has control of that dot or the county so so let me um with regard to the intersections I only know uh well I know what's happening at at one of those intersections specifically because it's already constructed so the intersection at MLK and beersford was was already built the infrastruct now it's got some improvements that are going to need to be reconstructed as we do the extensions that's a intersection that's not a roundabout that's not what's what's planned there at this at this point in time um where beersford intersects with Blue Lake I believe the county plan that's the section the countyy is building so that last that leg that I think let's see in what you were shown earlier today let me give you the section number or the phase number that it was referred to well you're looking at that though more I think the most important intersection is kep roundout is Kepler and pford so the the intersection at um Blue Lake is a roundabout okay the intersection at Kepler and uh beersford is an intersection uh four leg intersection lighted or just stop signs lighted or stop sign it depends on the volume you guys would be in charge of whether or not a signal gets installed we are though not that's your road those are both your roads and then can I just have one last question to Clay I'm sorry clay I don't mean to interrupt you but just do we have any idea how many uh permitted houses are being built right now as we speak or developed in that area like all down Kepler because it seems like there's a lot of construction going on that we don't know how that's all going to play out yes sir we we've been in Communications with the city of D land city of D land has approved the crestman project which is on the east side of Kepler on the north side of State Road 44 around on the east side of Lake winet okay that's a retirement 55 plus Community that's coming online plus as you saw can we go back to that exhibit it showed the um my presentation where you have Mark's presentation there's a series of um in the slideshow there's shows the development intensity of those residential developments that are going on those have been already approved by the city of Dand they are part of the prop fair share that um I think it's the picture other way other way okay if I can you're looking for the red dots aren't you yeah and you're including all the uh the new developments down Kepler as well like even south of Orange Camp can we go to the other there's there's crestwind there you there's Lakewood Park Estates there's a Reserve at Victoria those are all projects well could you go back one there you go that that's there it is so Mark has already provided you with the the background information these are projects that are approved some are in process of being developed some are still waiting to be developed so you have crestwind which is 600 Summit Place Town Homes 300 units Lakewood Park 434 Victoria Reserve Trinity Gardens well they're not necessarily directly on it but those are nearby exactly those four there that I just referenced are the ones that have been approved believe so chairman can I just quickly ask Clay did you say those were all approved by the city of Dand yes yeah okay so we don't know so we're talking about maybe 1,500 new residents that are going to be coming up in this area it's it's about 2500 when you look at all the the houses that have been developed that are that are approved and under construction in the area yeah yes okay so somewhere in that 2,000 to 2500 now of the ones you see here uh the only one that is not currently under construction is the summit plac Town Homes the 300 units that are down off of summit um that's going through preliminary plat View at the city of Dand currently um you know as I mentioned in um you know when we talk about the planning tool you know these are all within the areas that were designated as areas for increased growth and development within the Dand 250 plan with the exception of crestwind which was keep the existing intensities in place which is is what they did because that was approved in '96 um at a density that is uh consistent with what it's being develop developed at now okay so they didn't increase that but they kept it level thank you guys I appreciate [Music] it Mark yes sir the uh I have two concerns I'm I'm going to deal with one of them now we'll I'll wait until the council begins debate but for traffic um the video that you showed was from fot yes and was that supposed to show the current level of traffic at P pm and am no so that video was shown at their um public hearing that they held on the roundabout project that was in August of 2020 if I remember correctly they had another one in 2021 that video shows the level of traffic based on their 2040 project C going through that intersection with that Improvement so it's not today's traffic it's a 2040 projection at the PM peak hour and that was what they um they based that animation on um that's not my words I went through their materials from that hearing and confirmed that that is the volume that was modeled with the animation I'm I'm surprised frankly it just defies crul to me cuz I've never seen that few of cars right now in the in the AM or the PM so yeah you have to remember that their 2040 was also based on the Assumption of what the was the roadway Network would look like in 2040 which includes not only what's uh funded but also cost feasible so when they look do a 2040 analysis you look at okay maybe 1792 to the city now is six Lane all the way or or you know uh Kepler is four laned all the way up so all those things are built into that model when they're coming up with their projections for 2040 because that's the nature of of of how they do the the future modeling because they've also looked at and said what is what developments are we expecting to be in place within the area for 2040 and again they've grown all the the SN data out to that that uh time frame so all that goes into play when they come up with it and that's why uh the traffic is redistributed all through the network new roads may have come online have four Lane section can you give him a mic because we Sor Pi up that's okay um you you live in Orlando yes you've spent some time here apparently on that on that intersection oh yeah yeah I worked on the lake winet traffic study a crestwind project that is under construction currently and so you're telling me that that the fot study what they derived that video from took into consider consideration all these yellow stars and the all that added let me let me residents and one thing with with regard to that so that video was done at their used at their 2040 hearings uh when they had the or I'm sorry their 2020 public hear roundabout design since that time there's been additional projects that have been approved um those projects are now in What DOT is modeling for that intersection function as they're finalizing the design and as they're they're moving forward with construction of it all of those traffics in addition all of those projects in addition have to be in our Tia which um we have another model we have another um video that shows our traffic study you know but it's under review by your your staff still and so we couldn't present it to you and say this is something that's been reviewed and approved by your staff so we didn't want to include it in what we showed you tonight but my point in saying that is that analysis and the additional analysis is ongoing from the this point and is the analysis that leads to the prop share conclusion and everything else on how what additional funding has to be provided into the road Network for additional improvements beyond the roundabout or the beer extension so that's an ongoing process and we're but all of those other projects have to be included in the background of what we're modeling that's your requirement okay uh Tad you don't have to walk up you can just shake yes or no and I'll tell the the audience what your on the MLK and beersford um Don asked about it has it it's not been determined yet if that's a stop sign or traffic light you can't do it with a yes or no okay and um and then also what while you answer that I believe he said that would be a a council decision well actually what did Tad casbeer County engineer again uh with regard to that intersection it'll be based on what the model for the traffic projects so we have to justify putting in a signal we can't just Willy and nearly decide what we want to do there are requirements uh for meeting a need for a signal so we do expect we have done uh analysis at that intersection uh previously uh at different levels depending on the developments that have occurred to the east and west and uh once this last section of beersford connects up to uh State Road 44 at that point we're comfortable that a signal won't be warranted we do plan on putting one in as a part of that last project okay so that that's already a part of our okay we didn't specifically exhibit thank you appreciate it I don't see any other questions um okay so I think again we appreciate your time this evening um we know again my traffic title on that slide was traffic traffic traffic we know that that is the drum beat of the issue out here um but in addition to the road improvements that um are under construction and underway now and in addition to the the ones that we'll have to fund moving forward with this particular project you know I think one of the most vital things to keep in mind is looking back to the philosophy of the plan that Dand is trying to follow and yes this one is still a decision that's coming to you because it's not contiguous it's in the Dand Serv utility service area it's serviced by the land utilities if if we were uh adjacent and could qualify for annexation this this would be a council hearing that we'd be having in front of you know the the danan city commission um we've had plenty of those as well but but I think the key is that they're following a plan with regard to how to diversify their land uses to serve the residential development that's occurring um I think more communities would be well served if they looked at things this way so we're asking you because it's in your jurisdiction still um to approve the land use Amendment and approve the rezoning so that we can move to the next step of the analysis and keep working with your staff in the city with regard to the development of the road program out here so happy to answer any further questions you might have that that did create one more um Mr Santiago asked about the the graphics for the shopping center yes you the um the 100 tow houses that's going in that um far north quadrant that's correct um but you don't know where yet well we do um we it's labeled let me get back to the slide it's it doesn't like this because we embedded that that video into the presentation so it chokes when it gets to that point so let me went the wrong way um okay so if you go back to this slide okay um the white area the white area so the area that the urban high intensity or the the residential land use application applies to is the White and the green area but what we did is instead of trying to develop any of the green area since we knew that was an area that was important for preservation of that Watershed we effectively clustered any development that's occurring from a residential standpoint on the white area here and it's limited to that this is the exhibit from your P from the Pud um so the residential would be limited to that um and basically it provides a transitional use so because you again you've got a shopping center that would be going in on the corner you know you need something to transition that density back to the church that's on the North or back to the larger lot residential rural subdivisions up Kepler um so that's what that town home portion is designed to do we heard you know the concern about higher intensity just not being appropriate there so that's why we we revised it to be Town Homes um but to give you an idea of um kind of the scale uh we've got a site that's over on 15a that's under development now um it was another one that was planned by the city of Dand um it's about seven 8 Acres if I remember correctly and it's being developed with about 90 town homes so that is an appropriate kind of fit for that type of um this size of property this is actually a little bit large for that number of units but it'll give us the opportunity to provide some amenities and things what what is a size it's about 7.8 acres and it's got about 92 to 94 units on it if I remember correctly um that's a project that's if you know where Brian's barbecue is it's right across the street from Brian's barbecue on 15a so again um we appreciate all your time I know these are hard decisions to make um but planning often is thank you uh Vice chair Kent thank you chairman um debates and comment is that okay now please thank you so I'm going to start with with what I like about what I just heard and what I like is the retail Shopping Center that will keep people from traveling all over to land um to go get their shopping done it's closer it makes sense I I like that for my next comments Council and residence I'm I'm going to be brutally honest and just raw with you I was born in the Halifax Hospital I've lived Orman Beachside my entire life my first time in these Chambers is when I was sworn in staff had to meet me in the parking lot and show me how to get in here I live like I said Beachside Orman I love the bumper stickers that I see that say don't make me cross the bridge I tell you that because I have spent more time in your beautiful city of D land uh in the past year of my life than I did my first 47 years and this is what I've told people about your beautiful city now before that just so you know I would come over with my family to bring them to a stss and baseball game um we'd eat at Belly Busters I always like that and your Main Street downtown is just spectacular it's an amazing thing you have so I also like to Pride myself on being on time and if I'm starting a meeting I was like it to start on time I like it to end on time my GPS told me how to get here which was Orman Beach to I4 and I get off on 44 and our morning meeting started at 9:00 a.m. and I'm going to admit to you these are the things I say in my truck when I'm on 44 to myself there's children and I I can I I I can no I can I can say these things I I I quote what the what are you kidding me stop the insanity and I remind myself don't make me cross the bridge now to me the most impactful powerful picture that the applicant put up there was the 2500 homes the city of the land has approved what the what that's not vucha County doing that that's not the gentleman up here that's not us doing that so now you have an applicant who's gone from 240 multif family town homes or apartments down to a 100 and I applaud you for that I really do I can't answer for the city of Dand with why they would approve what they have approved but they have I need someone to convince me tonight in order for me to approve this and vote Yes and I've heard the traffic information and I've heard the timelines but I cannot in good conscience agree with this when the guy from Beachside orand drives over to this meeting and by the way when I go home it's quicker for me to go back I4 but I add an extra 4 minutes to my ride because I like going down Valia Avenue if you remember it was called Valia or 92 now they like to call it International Speedway Boulevard but I like I take that ride home um it allows me to see if Belly Busters is still open on my way home my son and wife appreciate it when it is but someone's going to have to convince me even though and I applaud you for the fewer number of residences that are going to be there how I can say yes to this because I don't get a vote on what Dand did I get a vote on this and it's not fun when I get off of I4 on State Road 44 and I literally go 1,200 feet and I'm stopped in dead traffic and what should take me five to S minutes to get here to this building takes me you know 15 I'm not going to OV exaggerate and say longer than that 15 20 minutes it doubles it at least so I just need some help with that otherwise I'm a no thanks thank you we don't have a a motion on the floor yet and it it this is a tough decision we might not get one for right right away um Mr Santiago I don't know if you have a motion or or you want to I may I may I'll just open with some comments first Mr chair um I've I've said similar words on that intersection um and probably a couple that I can't repeat um in the uh Chambers or shouldn't repeat um and I understand the frustration from the public um uh regarding that intersection I try to avoid it at all costs in the morning I'll say I'll go down to 7 I live in Deltona I'll go down to 1792 and hit the other roundabout right by the the neighborhood Walmart right um and so I I I get it um and I think roundabouts work we just got to get used to it it's not a they were not accustomed to it they were more efficient in many ways um but on the traffic situation while I feel the pain and we're going to feel the pain for a little while that's today all right so we we've heard a lot of testimony from our staff and from we've heard from dot what they're doing we've heard staff and the applicant talk about proportionate fair share the things that are coming forward to alleviate that pain um and I'm taking it purely from a I don't want to say engineering perspective but lack of a better term I'll say that because I'm not an engineer but from the the the professionals that do this every day and and I entrust our staff to analyze it in in the way that I think this County Council would Envision um so I think when it comes to the road help is on the way it's took a long time help is on the way and and that's going to be improved our state folks have looked at it and this project is going to be well utilized once it comes there it's going to be well received once it comes there um the the most impactful thing for me was when he showed the commercial on where everybody in that whole area is going and it's causing traffic concerns on the other side of the land near 1792 and all those other roads that I I shop there too sometimes um so um what's what's also good about this project going forward is that they're they haven't even put in their money yet that is going to be determined in the proportionate fair share um calculations once the Tia is done so that Tia is going to analyze all of the things that we asked about all right here regarding what's already been approved what future development what future counts on this road it's going to also encapsulate the roundabout and it it's you know they're going to give them probably I don't know until the studies done but Tad's probably going to give them a sizable number saying this is what you're going to have to do in order to get your approval um so which is also going to be utilized we have to to enhance uh that intersection so um there's going to be more work that'll be done there eventually as a as a result of this project in the proportion of fair share and I think the uh the inventory is of homes and I forget his name all the time with the blue shirt you made a good point on the inventory homes we do need more diversity of in inventory hes I was not for this project in its original proposal I had I had concerns um in its original proposal and the the changes that the applicant has made with the 100 Town Homes significantly reduced it they're town homes so now it's fee simple people that have skin in the game um for their for their Investments um and it it allows a more affordable um price point for entry homes or someone who wants to live there forever whatever they choose so it it it diversifies our inventory of homes which is good for our economy and and I as I said the commercial project is needed um that is desperately needed in this uh area you know I reflect back on other subdivisions in the area and you know I don't know where most of you folks live but I did hear someone lived in Victoria one of the Victoria projects and you know when that Victoria project was getting ready to be built there were people here also saying we don't want that project it's too big it's this and that and before you bought your house some of you there were similar people here doing the same thing and our job as a council is to to look at the big picture it's not I think a lady said we need to look at 2040 2050 how things are going to move forward and people want to come to Florida people are multiplying kids are being born here we want our kids to come back and live here right um so those things we'll appreciate later on in the future we have to sometimes make those tough decisions that you don't want in your backyard or you don't want an extra few minutes on the road but I'll wrap up with this I think the help is on the way with the road project I think when it's said when it's all said and done you're going to love a beautiful project built there which we're going to make sure that it's beautiful if it gets passed and I think the road enhancements would certainly going to alleviate all of your stuff I feel your pain today I've suffered it um but I think uh we can't hold this project accountable because of what today's standard is and we have to account for everything um and the last thing I'll say Mr chair is that if we didn't approve that residential thing that could be another single family residential subdivision in the future which we probably would rather have a more Diversified product thank you Mr chair okay you didn't have a motion I'll say Mr chair I move to approve I don't have the project number item four I'll just say that I'm move to approve item number four on the agenda Mr chair second chair just to clarify that includes the um uh applicant site specific restriction which limits the residential density to 100 dwelling units that's correct so amended accordingly oh Town Homes Town Homes correct amended if my second takes that okay we have a motion to approve by uh David Santiago and a second by uh councilman Robbins Don Dempsey for debate yes um there it is thank you yeah I'm just looking at this picture that we had up earlier with Mr Irvin I don't think this accounts for the new subdivision or apartment complex that's going up south of cega Road um well let me just start with this Mark I mean I got to compliment you I mean he worked like a rented mu on trying to get this project through and he's I know he did all his homework I know he talked to all the neighbors and I mean he was very persistent in our conversations and giving me all the data I'm I'm just a little concerned I kind of share Troy's concern um I'm hoping you're not cussing at my Law Office signs on the way over here but me there but we've got 28 2800 houses here that we don't even know how that's going to impact the intersection we've got I believe that's huge apartment complex I'm guessing on the Southeast corner of Kepler in ml or in cega Road um there's another project that's been approved by the land uh near Blue Lake that isn't on here that I believe is is coming up in the pike so I mean I don't know if the round the roundabout is the cure all I'm not a big fan of roundabouts I actually you know I do traffic tickets I can't tell you how many more cases I've gotten recently of people getting fender benders in the roundabout I call them the blender or D version of the Autobon because nobody really knows what to do where and it doesn't seem like there's any Rhyme or Reason and I actually I get the benefit of representing people who get these tickets and it seems like the police officers don't even know what the proper protocol is I mean you just got to kind of go in there and just really watch out um you know I I just wish this was two years into the future I wish we had a chance to see all these new homes in place do our traffic studies then wait till the beers F extension comes in and because I do think that's going to be a big help and I I I think I read between the lines with you Mr Kent that it's this is the land I mean the land is allowing all this development to happen so quickly I think we all campaigned on the idea of responsible growth and what's happened here just from what you know my limited knowledge but it seems like the land has just allowed all these subdivisions to come up I remember back in the 1900s when didn't even exist Mark talked about it I used to drive my dirt bikes back in there all the time and it wasn't there and all these subdivisions all this high density development is just been coming about in the last 20 years I'd say and so it's it's really um growing and growing fast and to sit here and say we're going to put a blender right in the middle of all this and expect that to cure everything I don't know if that's the answer I'd rather see uh let I guess let the Lands new developments come to fruition and then see what happens from there I you know some of you that spoke today in opposition of this I would hope You' go down this couple blocks down and tell them your feelings on all this rapid development that we're getting over here because we can't stop it I mean I think I think David actually mentioned we just or Troy said it that we just can't this is out of our hands and it's I think they we didn't we weren't the ones here sitting debating on whether we're going to have these subdivisions coming in on Kepler that was all the land through annexation we can't stop that so now we're having to deal with I consider a mess that I actually blame the land for because they've annexed all this stuff in allowed I think Mark even said he he would Annex in if he could because they're very in my opinion pretty liberal on allowing stuff to come in Mark I I really commend your efforts I know the Ford family real well I used to work for the Fords um in their firm and um they're wonderful people I hate to be the bad guy in your eyes because I know how hard you guys have worked I respect your firm and I I love I really respect the Ford family it's just there's been so much outcry and I just I can't see this being a good fit right now if we could I know you've waited five years if we could wait just another two years and just see how all this stuff pans out let the beersford extension if it's going to be done in time let it be done let it and then let's just come back to this and reevaluate because we do need the shopping center I mean we need a public or a grocery store it's all needed but it's like there's so much popping up and we got all these Stars up here we don't even know how that's going to play and it's just I think premature to add to it and expect just a roundabout to be the The Cure so I'm I'm kind of in Troy's position I'm kind of against it just I don't cuss every time I driveth through to land necessarily but I I do share the frustration that Mr Kent has so thank you he was what thank you thank you Don um I I agree with with what you said except for one thing I actually like roundabouts but my wife is from Boston and they're everywhere and they're the most aggressive drivers in the world and almost every other person is in a Rolls-Royce a Cadillac or a Bentley and I don't understand it um but I mark this is a much improve where'd he go much improved project than what ni was handed 5 years ago um but I agree with Don I I don't think it's there yet and um so I'm going to make a couple of suggestion I I I can't vote for this today um two reasons one is the traffic I'm we're all looking at these Stars we're we're talking about the 20 2040 video that shows less traffic than we have today and that's because of the improved Road Network I'm sorry I don't see it I see on TP I know how long it takes for roads where are those roads coming from where's the money coming I just don't see it I I'm in Don's court that I think we you we wait a couple years and see how the traffic um how it is this is the worst intersection in the land it's it's horrible um and it's Delan just keeps adding more and more um you know 300 homes here 600 homes there without the roads it's not the residents are sick of it and they're they're all screaming what happened to our the small town field of Dand um it's not there anymore because traffic is so bad so the the traffic is a big one for me but the other one all these developments that were mentioned on that are already in in the Victoria developments and Sawyers Landing with every one of those we're getting incredible flooding in surrounding neighborhoods and I look at this and um I see the the water is going to go I mean this was all mostly agricultural land it was land that accepted that water it permeated through the ground now a lot of that not all of it you've you've done a good job of setting land aside but there's a lot of pave land there and now all that runoff is going to go into the um into the uh uh the Wetland system there and then end up in Lake Hamilton and then L end up it's going to go from there to um uh to to Blue Lake and then to South Lake toage and then to North Lake toage and then to Miller Lake and then try and get under 92 to get into little Hall Creek and it's not happening now we have residents along those Lakes especially on on lake talage that are losing property every year they lose more property because the canals are not adequate between those Lakes to conduct the flow and when you get to the the long Canal between North Lake town or lake toage and and Miller Lake it's a sess poool of of of silt and sediment built up that does not let it flow and so there's homes along there that have built seaw walls that are now crumbling the the residents are watching the water in closer and closer to their homes and we're going to put more water there I I can't I can't in good conscious saying that's going to solve um that's not going to make the problem even worse we're going to create more uh more and more flooding I've tried for three years to get the State of Florida to take responsibility for cleaning out that Canal the county has offered to go and clean out the canal we just have to get paid CU it's a huge job we had um agriculture come up and they've looked at the at the at that canal and they said look we can pump all of that sediment out and we can spray it on the surrounding um pastures that I I think the Ford Zone and grow incredible hay there but nobody will take responsibility for it from the state to pay for that so until we get those canal and every one of the canals for all the other um adjoining uh uh Lakes as well they all need to be widened they all need to be deeper they all need to be improved and if if you can include that in this project if if you can get help with that if you can get the state to say okay we'll pay for it if you'll say you'll pay for it I can't approve another project that I believe is going to flood out more neighborhoods in D land I just I it's a bridge too far for me um Danny Robbins thank you chair uh Mr Urban uh clay if you if I can bend your ear just a little bit just uh for the record can you define responsible growth some of the elements of responsible growth that we use as a standard uh both in the uh County and the state that's a very broad question we have the criteria that are established in our comprehensive plan in regards the review of specific amendments to our comprehensive plan we also have our smart growth initiative which was primary arily focused in the areas encompassed by the environmental uh communities overlay um but basically it's ensuring that we have compact Urban growth utilize the existing natural re or protect natural resources and ensure that we uh put uh new development where there's utilities and where there's infrastructure to support it and you're because you're one of the few people here that that's uh qualified to make these sort of statements and not opinions um would you classify project like this I'm not saying I agree with it or don't as uh responsible growth does it because I asked some questions earlier and that's kind of what I was getting at uh was the elements of this project compared to responsible growth can you are you able to answer that staff would not have recommended the approval of the comp plan Amendment if we did not feel it was consistent with our existing goals objectives and policies that uh guide where we go forward with development in Belushi County so in short answer yes uh moving on if we deny this what can the applicant legally come back with is it more density at this because what I'm trying to avoid is another tamoka Oaks scenario where they were at the table for a long time if it's the right one I'm thinking about and just and and and then they come back uh they reduced it and then came back after all uh energy was expended and and there was no give or take then they came back with the maximum um am I is that kind of an accurate summary of that situation right now the designation is urban low intensity so the theoretical maximum would be four units per acre you have roughly 40 acres so it'd be 160 residential units uh they could request a straight zoning of say to R3 R4 um they could come back with a PUD to come in with alternative uh lot configurations or something unique from that perspective but the theoretical maximum is 160 residential units compared to the 100 that they've brought it down to now you also have to include the commercial development okay so they they've got the shopping center and all of that so that would also it is an intensification over the existing land use that is there now with those 160 single family trips a day would that equate to the same amount as um proposed or more do we know roughly in your training experience residential single family residential typically has a 10 uh trips per per day so it would be roughly 160 times so it' be 1,600 trips as opposed to the 13,000 okay and okay thanks that's it for now Jake Johansson thank you sir um I'm not going to ask you the question play because I know it this this seems to kind of have the smell of low impact development kind of uh High higher density than than single family homes walkable Community kind of a cluster if you will um uh I understand the traffic piece and and I I'm with Troy and everybody else that travels that uh that road there's times you come in for a council meeting and there's times you don't um but isn't this kind of the goal of of what we have all kind of esposed with this new low impact development um not from a not from a storm water retention or detention piece but from a clustering piece the bigger picture um can I can I make that reach so yes please answer just clarify low low impact development is pertaining to a method of addressing storm water and reducing footprint what you're trying to get to is saying is this more towards as Mr Robbins was saying more of a smart growth where you cluster and you have residential at higher densities rather than sprawling it out in close proximity so that they walk or uh or within walking distance of commercial areas also this is being placed in an area where as this image on the screen points out and I think this is the driving force behind what staff was saying is that this provides an opportunity to provide an alternative Commercial location for uh residential development that's already been approved so therefore instead of having traveling to these other locations they would be brought in and have shorter distances over local roads to this facility got it do did we yeah I got it so so we're lessening the the traffic impact on other areas by allowing these folks out east to have a place to shop basically right they're going to yes sir all right um yeah I I concur with most my colleagues here this is going to be a tough one but thank you very much David Santiago thank you Mr chair I I want to clarify because something new got in cted for me at least um I don't know if clay wants to take a shot at this I know you've been in the hot seat but um I Heard the word flooding um from one of my colleagues and I think he said that he doesn't want to flood the rest of the residents I guess down the topography would this project be designed in a method that we know would allow flooding to occur the issue that hold on the chairman is laughing and that's on TV I want to make clear so I I did not know you were a scientist or you were an expert in this area that's why I'm asking them and you made the statement that's I did you made flooding are you saying they designed it to flood no they did not but it still floods you're insinuating that if we approve this going to flood you said it you said I'm not going to allow this to happen so you put the rest of this Council in a perspective if they're going to vote for this that you're saying that we're going to make everything else flood so your comments have to be clarified by people that are experts that know more about this than any of us so that's why us all the flooding okay there we go that's what we're dealing with so Mr Mr Clay I'm sorry to put you on the spot but I think the council members that are considering this project need some clarity on the design as aspects that are going to be applied if this is approved would it be done to the latest engineering designs that would not allow the rest of the residents to flood as the chairman described we have in our code minimum requirements for storm water management IT addresses a 25y year 24-hour storm event that is what it's designed to uh there are concerns uh basically Upstream because this is feeding into the Chain of Lakes what you hear discussed there so there's been concerns identified because of the recent rainfall that we've had where we're seeing uh flooding across the entire County because of the extremely high groundwater table um as I said we designed to a 25e storm event if we have something more than a 25e storm event we cannot speak to what will happen at that point that's that's pretty much just standard across most municipalities or or governance is that that fair yes sir that that's typ that's typical of what you see in valuch county and the cities in valuch county and St John's river water Management District thank you and I'll just wrap out with this Mr chairman I would not have made the comment to clarify this had you not put it in the context that would demonize or make the rest of the council members look bad I I I respect your opinion but it's in the context as you put it puts members of this Council in a difficult spot and I respect your opinion just choice of words required me to do that so that's why I wanted clarification thank you Mr chair okay I understand that you might feel demonized by it but the what I said was that there's already flooding on this Chain of Lakes you can deny it but it's there you don't live there Gerald feeser's uh seaw wall is falling into the lake every one of the residents that live up there have encroaching water on their property Sawyer Landing was designed to not flood the neighborhoods and JC's property has been flooded since the day they they built it that was the experts that followed the law and followed all the storm orders and it's and it's flooding not just a little bit but it's ruined his property it's going uphill and ruing all the properties around it Mr Victoria Oaks it's causing flooding all around go down Taylor Avenue look at the farm that there it's out of business because it's flooded it's underwater that's what the expert gave it the experts are following the law Mr chairman can we get an order please they're following the law and they're doing what they're supposed to but it's still resulting in flooding I'm sorry I've got I've got time to talk so that's why I bring up flooding because it's a serious problem and you can smirk and say well we're we have nothing to do with that we have to recognize that the way we're developing is causing flooding and I'm not willing to approve this one with all that Development coming up there and say it's not the traffic's going to be just fine and the uh and we're not causing flooding we already are under your scenario you're not going to prove anything in the future basically it's what you're saying I'm done Mr chair just call the vote okay good anybody else uh Vice chair Kent chairman so you know one of the concerns I have about this in a way you know to vote Yes for it is I feel like if if this was annexed by the city of Delan they'd be approving this I feel like because this is Valia County before us and you know this group is the last one to come forward I feel like you get the negative effects of that because of what everybody else has done around you and I think that's unfair in a sense to you and your group so I don't like that I you know I I like that you all um didn't come in with an a mind that wasn't open you know you came in and you're able to make changes on the Fly because you said you listened to the residents so I I really dislike that this puts you all in that position because I think Mr Watts you've done a masterful job of not only trying to address the concerns of the residents but also to make changes that would benefit the area to me it's the negative piece is like it or not you all are the last ones that I can see right now that have come forward and you're before this Council instead of before D land City commission um you know I was counting up the numbers here it's like 2700 homes I'm thinking about you know there's something in Orman possibly coming down the pike and they're talking about 3,000 homes and my constituents are already screaming and yelling you know about that so again this this slide is hugely impactful because you know you had those numbers there and you don't know what you what you don't know and I'm not on the Delan City commission and I hadn't seen that you know until you shared this in this presentation and it's a it's you know as Jackie gleon would say in smoking in the Bandit it's an attention geta uh and it and it and it really thank you for that you um but I just don't know that I've been convinced enough because I am one of the guys that can say yes or no on this one because of what I see that not only I I mean I deal with it twice a month but these people deal it every day I I listen to that one one woman who says she doesn't makeing a doctor's appointment before 930 I believe you wholeheartedly ma'am I I believe her wholeheartedly she doesn't make a doctor's appointment before that time because of the nonsense she has to deal with so I'm I'm I'm on the fence a little bit still actually gentlemen Danny Robbins thank you chair you know going through all this and and hearing all the the the testimony I still go back to addressing the concerns of the public in the surrounding area and making sure that we uh while going through this are complying with all the standards and I'm going to I'm going to fall back on a couple things that we already talked about and I'm going to summarize this again the traffic concerns are being are being handled as we speak um by the state the big thing here is that it's funded this is a wish list or in in the wind it's funded um uh there's been reduced density reduced trips reduced delays they forecasted this out to 2040 the wetlands will be uh protected and not paved over which we're accused of uh all the time there are some liid principles in in involved in this which are begged for um on EV every every instance um it's in the the land's uh Future Vision it's within the service boundary um this was planned for uh as unpopular as it may be all the boxes from what I hear are are are are checked and I also don't believe that you know here it is 5 years later and all these dots they may happen and they may not we've seen this um this flow uh when it's good they happen when there's at demand they happen when they don't they don't some of these could be um uh not developed for another 20 years they may dot is is is calculating that they that they are and preparing for as they are but like I said as unpopular as this may be do we hold this applicant or punish this applicant for the fear of the unknown and what may or may not happen uh he's giving us a timeline to say hey it's in a year um I have to take his his word on it I have to take the word of the do and and and the experts uh and and to get to Mr Santiago's point I I respect what you said because you're absolutely in my opinion correct so you know there's a lot of things that we have to account for here but to uh punish something uh uh uh them or hold them um I just it's a tough one but I'm not a fear guy there's a lot of fear and there's a lot of kind of opinions going around but it's all I got anybody else before I call for the vote don't see anybody else that wants to uh speak so the vote is on item four ordinance 223-4422 Acres including the uh downgrading to 100 uh Town Homes um of the previous 268 six a bunch more okay uh Christa would you call the role Please Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr dimsey no Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent no Mr Brower no uh but the item passes um 4 to three okay uh where is Paulo item number five is the Pud um if you make a motion to approve um I would recommend that it be um with the changes proposed by the applicant um removing the multif family development standards um and if you want to also including the non-residential architectural design standards that the applicant proferred for development of the commercial um development councilman Santiago I'm not going to remember all that Polo but it moved to approve as described by our attorne second motion to approve by David Santiago uh second by uh Danny Robbins any uh questions debate Karissa would you call the role Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey no Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent no Mr Brower no and the uh the item passes 4 to three as well take a break please for time this evening yes thank you for the public that came out thank you and um yeah we will uh um we will take a break but I'm I'm going to ask the council before we do item seven there needs to be some change in technology for that to be built so let's take a break right now and allow them to do that and and and bring item seven before item six when we come back does anybody have an issue with that I've been asked to gives give them some time to change technology 47 so thank you Mr Brower can you please clarify how long the break will be I didn't say can we take a break till 8:00 yeah is that sufficient shorter we can make it shorter you can't okay J leg if yall have budy in tallah hassard that you can talk to I don't know I'll talk to you mark you e e e all right testing your son e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e want [Music] hey [Music] hey [Music] [Applause] [Music] all [Music] [Music] he [Music] a [Music] oh [Music] w [Music] w [Music] [Music] got welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 [Music] minutes [Music] ah [Music] but they got a [Music] so [Music] B [Music] [Music] you [Music] no [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in in 2 [Music] [Music] minutes [Music] that close [Music] to [Music] this [Music] me name this time oh boy I think go for how you do good to see you how you doing good to see everybody I don't get over here you got huh I'm up next no nope item six thank you very God dang much huh girl gu what's up Danny how you doing okay Tim Bailey we will begin the meeting with item seven presentation by Hunden strategic Partners on the Motocross feasibility study good evening honorable chair County council members uh I'm Tim Bailey parks recreation and culture director tonight before you is a pre presentation by the Hunden strategic Partners who have been selected to do a feasibility study on the Motocross potential Motocross facility here in vucha County uh Lexi cuff is going to be presenting uh the study she's going to give you a highlevel uh summary of the conceptual plan estimated costs proforma and economic impact of the study that uh they've been working on for quite a quite a bit so um she's going to go through each slide if there's a question on a slide because it's going to be high Lev summary uh feel free to stop her and ask a question and then uh she'll go more detail with you okay with that I'd like to introduce Lexi cuff hund Partners thank you Tim uh hopefully everyone can see my screen here uh again Lexi cuff project manager with Hunden we were engaged to look at the financial feasibility and proforma study which includes the economic fiscal and employment impact analysis that ultimately will show the projected return on investment to the community in terms of jobs new spending and tax revenues generated by the project here so getting right into it um in terms of our recommendations for the Motocross facility at the tamoka farm site uh two fullsize competitive MX tracks here with about 50 RV slips recommended at a minimum with additional General parking as well as support amenities so we did go about this in a phased approach here which you'll see on a few of the following slides but in terms of a conceptual site plan for that tamoka farm site here um as you can see we we work with uh an architect closely with convergence design that's based out of Kansas City who was able to put this together as long as well as those cost estimates that you'll see in the next few slides here um but overall concept planned on that tamoka farm site within Port or Port Orange within Belia County Florida obviously um but in terms of what our phase one so the goal of phase one is to really create a critical mass in terms of development so having enough of the components where you're able to have local utilization as well as a few tournaments um as you move forward into phase two or as what we like to call stabilization so we'll highlight that in terms of our financials a little bit later on but phase one here uh obviously cost including those Motocross tracks long and short the site work grading and drainage necessary pave access drive from tamoka Farms Road which is currently uh dirt and then surface parking about 250 turf or grass parking spots here so our subtotal for phase one being about 5.7 million here as estimated by convergence design and then looking into our phase two here so this then provides um some more amenities especially with those 50 grass RV spaces which really does help in terms of the revenue streams from an operating stop for a second see if we can clear that up if you think it'll get better CU it's quite an echo all right thank you you can you hear me we can hear you just hold hold up one second please we're trying to uh improve the audio here if you can lower your speaker um on while you're talking that's what it is is we're getting we're hearing your speaker and it's a couple second delay so it's almost like you're repeating if you can just turn your speaker off and then once you're done with your presentation um you can turn it back on to talk with Council okay no worries hopefully this is better uh just let me know if it's not um but in terms of our phase two here obviously looking at what those 50 grass RV spaces would look like so we looked at a few comparable facilities uh across the State of Florida uh this is something that we do with a lot of our different studies looking at what comparable facilities would look like and what kind of visitation sets that Baseline here had a lot of interviews with track off operators and owners to really understand what this Phase 2 would bring us to um so just to provide an example and this isn't an exact copy and paste obviously and I'll highlight the differences here obviously you can see the 162 RV parking spaces being tripled the amount that we're recommending at a minimum but this really being a uh a high uh highly attractive tournament facility if you will or large event facility attracting those National events and what we do is we use Placer I which is Geo fencing data that tracks cell phones um and what this is able to allow us is with an a realistic idea of what visitation would look like so obviously with this case being that more National events National tournaments um type of facility you see that huge spike in visitation uh in November at that top graph there but being able to attract more than 100,000 total visits for the year really just attributed to one major weekend um and then looking at what our phase three would get us here is this is being more so of the what we consider to be support amenities so having permanent restrooms concession buildings a pro shop or training facility um an irrigated well for track pep prep and then 250 additional paved surface parking here for that cost of 2.3 million um another case study here being the okachobee track um down in okobe Florida um being an example of a full uh facility with those 50 RV parking spots spaces but as well as those permanent buildings there that do allow for a more full or complete uh facility as such to the one that we were analyzing here in this study um again with that placer.ai tracking data here you can see the visitation is definitely more consistent than when we compare it to gatorback so all these things are taken into account um in terms of when we compute our financials here which we'll get into now in terms of our Council direction or scenarios that we analyzed and provided financials for being that scenario a and scenario B and then having the the additional option for scenario C but starting off with scenario a here being that County built and county-owned facility um so the county really having the responsibility from a management perspective and I'll highlight the main differences here in terms of our event projections as well as attendance but this being more of a local and Regional um track in terms of the attraction and ability to program it so we project here about 12 events upon stabilization and then having that Moto Motocross practice that's open to the public for about 130 days this then allows time and the ability to have track maintenance and have what's considered an off period uh in order to get everything needed so in terms of our attendance projection so in order to remain conservative we do project average writers per event uh being around 500 some of the the national or larger events are able to attract upwards of 1,500 sometimes even 3,000 Riders per event but in order to keep that average conservative we have 500 just to get a more realistic idea of what a track like this would be able to attract um and so then you can see that year one and two ramp up period and then years three and F years 3 through five uh reaching our stabilization there so about 35,500 total attendance upon stabilization and a a large portion of that is attributed to those Motocross events then our Revenue projections these are based on similar facilities and event data we did project that revenue generated from ticket prices concessions and parking and overnight um RV utilization based on the event type and attendee there and that all filters through into our revenues and expenses here to understand what a realistic uh proforma would look like like for a motocross track or facility that is owned and operated by the county standpoint so taking on the majority of risk there so seeing that upon stabilization the track is operating at a net operating profit or income of about 184,000 and then growing to about 360 368,000 um in year 30 there and then getting into our economic fiscal and employment impact analysis so we use impl uh an impl model which does provide multipliers for the indirect and induced spending that will result from that direct spending that's happening on site here so first and foremost looking at our room nights so this is again scenario a so the somewhat more conservative um events and attendance type here um but you can see there's still a significant amount of room nights being generated from those events because due to the fact that most of them are spanning across two to 3 days um on a given instance and then looking at what would be our net new spending so we categorize this in five categories so we have food and beverage lodging Retail transportation and other so we have direct net new spending to valua County being about 182 million over this 30-year timeline um and then obviously that trickling into the local economy generating that induced and indirect spending so that combined total new SPC being around 293 million again over this 30-year time frame and then taking a look at our capturable taxes so this is what taxes would be generated from the project here so we have sales tax for the county at 0.5% and then that tourist development tax of the county at about 6% due to hotel room nights lodging or overnight accommodations which would also be counted through RV uh accommodations here so that totaling nearly 1.9 million over that 30-year time frame um so just summarizing kind of everything I just went through as well as those construction impacts um down at the bottom there so this is scenario a so this is the county owned and operated uh scenario that we have here and then looking at scenario B which would be a county owned facility or the county owning the land and then bidding out the design or operational standpoint to a private uh private management company which is becoming increasingly more common especially with youth youth sports complexes having that public involvement um offsetting some of the cost uh development cost for a private facility to come in and manage manage it and the benefits of that as you can see here is the ability to have more what's considered high impact events so 14 events at stabilization here and then what you can see with the attendance projections is having that higher average per event uh and this is is due to just the the uh ability for a private operator or private management company having the incentives to want the the high impact events or higher revenue streams um so as as shown in this table here by year five or stabilization we have uh projected total attendance being that 43,500 and then again looking at our Revenue projections s very similar to scenario a here um again filtering again through through uh our revenues and expenses to get our proforma so in scenario B we do project uh a net operating income taking place here in year four compared to year five but as you can see it's increasingly growing every single year again just majority of that is due to those high impact events but also having that management fee be a percentage of Revenue so they are incentified incentivized to continue to program the facility and attract uh not only local utiliz ation but also having regular Regional and National events on the weekends there and again going into our impact we have room nights totaling around 15,700 upon stabilization in year five our net new spending and in this 30-year time frame direct net new spending due to the project would not be happening otherwise is around 225 million and then that total uh com combination spending excuse me uh direct indirect and induced spending to Valia County totaling that 362 Million number down at the bottom um with our capturable tax impacts being about 2.3 million again over that 30-year time frame and then just summarizing the scenario B so obviously two different outcomes just based on the operation standpoint here um and then I believe our next slide kind of takes us back to what these scenarios really look like and what we analyzed um in terms of the market opportunity for a new motocross track within Valia County Florida so showing that scenario a county built and County operated scenario B County built with private investor operator and then the final scenario or possibility so to speak would be scenario c a land lease to a private developer and operator um that would take on the full risk without the public involvement um but that kind of wraps up our presentation here obviously I wasn't able to answer questions um throughout just due to the speaker problem but I'll turn that back on and be able to answer any questions or go through anything on a deeper level from here thank you very much uh Council questions David Santiago thank you thank you for good presentation quick but very to the point so I appreciate that my question was on the on the scenario C have you seen um successful um um have you seen anybody successfully do scenario C yes so the um okobi facility that I showed earlier that is kind of an example of a scenario C it is um a little bit more unique especially when we look at I would say the tournament complexes within even youth sports facilities just not having that public involvement and just due to the rising construction cost that we're seeing not only with sports complexes or sports facilities but kind of with a lot of real estate developments uh within recent years it is becoming less popular but it still exists um for sure uh definitely scenario B kind of being somewhat more of a trend within recent years just due to those Rising construction cost and the private sector not wanting to take on uh as many risk at The Upfront uh without any public involvement thank you and just a one follow-up question on on I think it was scenario A and B did I see right that it looked like in year four it was almost a break even year three or four was it almost a break even in the operational costs versus a yes yes so with scenario B here you do have a little bit quicker of a break even scenario happening in year four um and then obviously you can see year five through 30 operating at quite a significant net operating income there where scenario a does Break Even it just breaks even upon stabilization and year five so not as quick but still being able to operate at a profit there um but obviously having that uh weight lifted more from the county standpoint or public sector so to speak not having that management fee as you can see that zeroed out there um and hitting a 368,000 by year 30 where scenario B does have about 760,000 uh projected for net operating income so slight differences but obviously still um a situation where there both scenarios are breaking even eventually just at different time frames sure thank you um I know final question but I just thought of another one um you know you showed us I think two other facilities in Florida um did in in your research or your opinion anything I mean um I think Valia county has a little bit more or a lot more to offer than some of those other counties do you think that um a facility here similar to those or whatever or better uh would perform better so based on our projections obviously we do use comparables or what we think in terms of expenses uh would be proven in terms of success obviously our opinion is a little less important than I think the the public opinion at this stage of things you know we're we are contracted just to show our data and what we find obviously there are different operating models which is kind of the goal of showing those case studies so vucha County does have the the demand from our conversations and that opportunity for a new track so it's it's really up to whether not uh I guess the the policy so policy decision so to speak would would rather take on more of a a county weight or County lift um versus Contracting out the operation standpoint if that's something that they're wanting to if you're wanting to explore obviously it's been done in different scenarios here uh but it is becoming an increasingly popular sport that does have the demand um that we've that we've seen councilman Robbins thanks chair I think this question will be for Tad if he's available oh okay that'll work too um I think Ben does Motocross Ben you do Motocross don't you uh no oh sorry maybe it's Tad I have some questions about the uh um I'm I understand a lot of this stuff here um that area is going to have some impacts here shortly U 1,200 homes were approved just to the north the city of Daytona Beach I think there's some other across the street um I know that that there was some issues out there after the storm post storms um have we done a traffic impact analysis or projection because I know once those are built built out um from what I understand just talking to to some of the attorneys that that that'll be at or above capacity of that road is any of that stuff are we planning just like we did for the last item are are we planning ahead for this so we can hey Tad yes sir uh you're correct there's other development that's going on in that location in that area and will have an effect on the traffic the traffic generated by an event like this would not typically be considered an average daily trip type of traffic so when you have special events you don't usually take them into that account uh we don't know what the uh on the based on those traffic studies what the weekend trips would be like uh so obviously that would be something we would take a look at but uh the size of the event would would dictate a large portion of that but sure is just uh real quick is this I know we're going to have events just like special events and every everything else um is this going to be open year round uh don was that kind of your not in the winter um yeah yeah Tim Bailey um yes it'll be open year round I think it's three days uh they they projected in the hunting study three days during the week uh of practice and then uh the events would be two days sometimes three days depending on the event do we have any idea of what the traffic protections would be no I did not not off the top of my head sorry that would be something that uh as a part of the site plan that would be necessary for this to move forward into the next phase that we would take a look at that aspect of it um and I could say I'm I'm kind I'm going to make a statement I'm kind of for this but going back to our previous item that that that would kind of be key just like we were able to know what dot was doing prior to uh this development that would be key enough for making a a um an educated decision to spend that money so that's that's kind of what I was getting at I I like a lot of it but I also want to be realistic and prepared uh for it so because I'm going to be asked these questions by everybody there so thank sure give me a few minutes let me see if we can't get you an answer councilman Johansson thank you chairman um so one of the things we get all the time benad slever is going to answer this is that uh um a mile row cost a lot of money to pave Mr elected official and here we are doing about three miles for a million bucks um can you do that inhouse uh actually the dve we're not looking to come in on shunts Road we're looking to come in on the uh entrance that's beinged now by the RC folks so that's really right at a mile got a mile dirt dirt road right now it's not exactly wide enough for two lanes of traffic so um we used our dirt road paving numbers that we do normally and and because essentially it's a it's a driveway yeah to the facility got it so that's what we projected as the cost for that and that's a that's a maximum cost assuming you know I've spoken to staff at Port Orange about utilizing shuns road which isn't actually is utilized by the city for their access to their ponds in the back so I would say if that road became available to use there might be some modifications to would be cheaper than Paving the current entrance to that area but we put the maximum number in yeah they might be willing right they might be willing um I I share the same concern we can't talk about oh my god the traffic and and and discount it here so uh I'll be excited to see that information when it comes in because uh tamoka Farms Ro small and I'm I'm a little concerned but all right thanks Ben uh just a couple quick questions for for you and then one for the the speaker um does this require any zoning changing changes that's a that's a CL question but I think because it's governmental government owned I don't believe it does but that would be a good question for clay typically when it's owned by the government it doesn't require a zoning change for the okay um but he can definitely answer that I know it's probably too early for this but I'll ask it anyway um right now there's nobody there very few people in that area there's more homes coming apparently um has there been any Outreach to the neighborhoods what they think about traffic or noise I'm thinking of we have a Wonderful World War II museum in oin that they can't even shoot off their Cannon because you know two neighbors complain um now this is may be less noisy than a cannon you'd have to tell us Don but it's a longer period of time I guess for the races but well there's noise barriers they they can put either the walls like on the highways or they can put up hills with bamboo that's actually a good sound barrier you plant bamboo and it baffles all the noise and already been done what I would say is the development is occurring North there I mean this this land is immediately south of the uh the landfill it's it's on that property south of there uh most of your developments occurring North and on the east side of tamoka Farms Road basically the county owns from just about just south of I a little further south than that but owns a large portion of land all the way down to where this facility is there are some homes immediately south of this a large lot subdivision and um and then to the West it's either owned by the County or the city of Port Orange or the city of Daytona Beach but no feedback from any of I don't believe those neighbor any of the Neighbors at this point okay um there is um I think this is probably for the speaker you said there was two in Florida are are they both privately owned no so there are I mean these are the two that we profile just to give an idea obvious viously on visitation and just what different events kind of generate here um so this one here is privately owned but this one gatorback cycle Park visitation um it is owned and operated by unlimited sports but there is more public involvement I do not believe that this is fully privately owned um but I can I can double check that for you as well but there are there are a number of instances where there is publicly owned privately managed um these are two that we just profiled in terms of uh hosting events regularly on a on a year-to-year basis but also the the proximity and location being somewhat similar to Valia County obviously not not copy and paste because this one is a little bit more of a a rural destination but um there are definitely different instances of that is there a gatorback cycle Park uh representative in the audience no the other okobi is here is here yeah Jason Mar we know that one's privately owned no that's a public he owns two of them one's public private one's P private I don't know if he wants to come up you can ask him he's right back there it's the guy that's agonizing that [Music] it's yeah how's it going good thank thank you for coming up you're welcome so you own two uh I actually on three so I have one in okobe I have one in pagora and I have one in ALA so um okobi is private pagora is actually on Airport property so it's uh right across street from pagora airport um so that actually exists on federal property that the airport manages and leases to us and then ala is also private and then we've been working with a few other counties to do kind of that public public private partnership okay thank you I just curious what's happening right now in in Florida um okay that's all the questions I had uh Matt Reinhardt thank you chair I only have one and maybe for the the presenter we're unique in this area as opposed to maybe okobi with respect to the speedway being down the street has any conversation been had possibly I know they do events with uh motorcycle races uh different obviously but could those two coincide I mean I don't that's def I mean that's definitely a possibility we have not had conversations at this point but that is something that we could explore I mean it's not uh a rare instance to have Partnerships with obviously existing assets especially when they are relatively close in Pro proximity and do share similar markets um they true similar not the same but similar but also with respect to um how they coordinate those efforts I mean their track is confined it's a little more controlled um they've been doing the traffic stuff since what 66 years now so with respect to NASCAR races but I'm curious as to you know does that I I didn't want to leave that off the table if this was something we seek that maybe we could uh uh partner with people that have done similar activities thank you councilman Robbins uh thanks chair Ben that's another question if we can add um the storm water plans also because I know the little tamoka goes through there and there's been some issues in the past what we're going to do I'm just trying to get wrap my head around it and get some consistency in in in what we do and how we measure things so so if yeah if she could go back actually to I think it was Gator back um so they would be required to pull a storm water permanent in here to all that um you know we did work with the consultant and tried to focus on reducing the impervious area I know that most of these facilities as you can see on the photo there don't have a ton of impervious area and a lot of them uh it appears ends up digging their storm water Pond to utilize The Fill to construct the dirt track um obviously I'm not I'm by no means an expert in Motocross but um you don't want a a really wet facility out there so they would still have to apply for a storm water permit and meet all those requirements um you know and deal with that you know if they're in the flood plane they'd have to provide compensating storage if they brought in Phill and so on and so forth so they'd have to do meet all those requirements but in going through you know working with Brad and his team and the and and the consultant you know talking to them about some of these costs and how they construct ability They Don't Really create a lot of impervious area out there um it's really just a lot of Earth moving exercise and dirt stabilized parking which does you know you got to account for in a storm water thing but um well I'm just trying to justify it I mean I can justify it because I'm into this kind of stuff so I'm kind of biased but as the theory goes and what we've heard on the council is if we build it up guess what it's going to flood out everybody else in the entire area so uh if we use that as a g and how we go forward as to Mr Santiago's point then we have a lot of questions that need to be answered I'm not saying that to be difficult I'm looking for consist they would have to meet all those requirements and like I said if it's in a flood plane they would have to meet those requirements but you know my the way I've seen some of these facilities build it's almost like it's a neutral calculation in terms of Bill where they dig the hole for their Pond like you see there and use that material to build their track um so if that's the case if they're not bringing in Phil and not loading up with a ton of imp area it's not a huge storm water impact good thank you councilman Johansson uh question for Lexi if she's um the I noticed that there's a three-phase plan but it looks to me that all three phases need to be built in order for this thing to kind of go operational is there any thought to uh uh phasing it um uh especially if Government uh foots the bill for this where we can get started and then and then um move toward a like a phase three where we can put people in there overnight and and work on the other areas that put put motorcycles on the track first and then worry about having people sleep over for five or six days I guess is what I'm getting at I I don't want to wait 3 years to build something when I can put bikes on the track in year one and and um build up the RV site in year two I don't I don't know absolutely and and that's kind of what we what we show here is having enough obviously uh critical mass or uh ameni so to speak more so offerings uh that are able to accommodate not only the local practice throughout the year but also those tournaments this would kind of be your bare minimum scenario so if we want if we want to get up and running and then phase out obviously to kind of spread out the cost um as well this would kind of be the recommendation for that so having this be a part of phase one and then phase two being that additional surface parking and then those RV spaces there um with those electric and water hookups and I mean I think in terms of this site that electric and water is is for the RV not for the the track and and the use of restrooms for the people using the track I gota right right where phase one I mean it is it's not rare to bring in Porta hotties or the uh more so portable concessions not temporary concessions where phase three would kind of be that full buildout scenario of having everything permanently on site but it doesn't mean that you still want to be able to bring in kind of temporary facilities while you're while you're constructing kind of the the full uh King Kaboodle so to speak copy thank you councilman Dempsey yeah um let me just tell you first we got a room full of um knowledge accessibility we got Mr Mara here who owns three facilities and he's working on two other counties we got sandbox here who train they have a professional training the top motocrossers in the country train down in Groveland at his facility we got a track owner here from Martha's Vineyard we have a retired professional we got a current professional we got future professionals um so there's a wealth of knowledge here if you have these questions maybe we could get them back up but I looked at this under the nimi program 20 years ago I think I told you before I I did my own feasibility I tried to put this in just as a private citizen through the old NIMBY program and um I think this could be done way cheaper the the current the gatorback scenario when she talked about November it draws that's a world record the last four years in attendance over 6,000 people Ricky carmichel which is what's going to start here in two weeks um sold out 2,000 entries in an hour and 30 minutes and you can talk to Mr naggie there the retired Pro who still rides he'll tell you you can't you couldn't get in I mean that's the the demand that we have and you can make it as big or as little as you want to with these things you can have a big event George I don't know if you want to inform them about NASCAR's input about this I don't want to yeah we have had to your point uh Mr R was bring that up we've had uh discussions with NASCAR uh they would like to be involved they haven't said they would be involved uh you know financially yet but they uh yeah I know that's where but we've had good conversations with them of course they have a Ricky Carmichael event they're very interested they're very interested in having and promoting uh a local track like this just like they do in their also their auto racing where they uh of course work with new SMA Beach Speedway and and others as well so they definitely see anything that helps grow that sport uh they're interested in I met with Mr kellerer uh about that and U and others so they're they're interested they just I think they want to see what direction Council wants to take it and then uh um I've had lunch let me just as long as I say you know they have facilities as we know uh about our with RVs and stuff as well and there by on the books there are other RV facilities nearby here uh that are coming out of the ground so if you're talking a phased approach uh you may not have to start with that uh there could be some of the stuff we we look at what's specific to this area and what do you need to get to get get started and then maybe it grows into those other facilities but there there are um rather large RV facilities that are going to come online right down the road thank you the only thing that I would I would supplement that I've had lunch with Mr Keller he called me and Mr motto the vice president and they are interested in this is my understanding um in case you didn't know uh NASCAR my understanding is they own the AMA the American motorcycle Association so they are the sanctioning body the the pro that's correct and they were interested if we were to have events they would love to get involved with the with the sanctioning of those events so yes and the AMA is the one that controls everything they control everything you see on TV on Saturday night watching the pros you'll see that kid right there Tristan Lane who grew up here in Delan I knew him when he was a pup he's now a pro he put on TV this Saturday you'll see him on there racing with the rest of them and there's three other kids from vucha County this is a big area this is kind of a a hot spot a melting spot pot for this Sport and it's just growing and growing but yet there's nowhere to ride in this I think I've said this at nauseum there's nowhere to ride in this County at all and I think they're all planning on telling you the problems they've had growing up with being able to find a place to ride but anyway I'll get i'll get off that but yeah if you had questions they're really is a wealth of knowledge out there but I I do think it's uh needed I'm in favor of Plan B because I think that is the norm in the industry as the lady uh from Hunden said that you do a public private partnership I think that's what Mr Mara did down in pagora he puts up a lot of the money but the city does as well they do a long-term lease and that's been very successful um and so I'm interested in seeing the county do something similar to that so that we can get places to ride here in valua County thanks David Santiago thank you Mr chairman um you know I'll tell you going into this um I didn't know what to expect but I'm impressed with the Prof fora um I didn't expect it I don't know how my colleagues think but I didn't think expect it to be that good it the numbers speak very well um you know year three or year four when you're breaking even and then you start making money from there if the projections and I think our presenter said these are conservative numbers so I know you said it would do better so um understanding that they said it' be conservative numbers I I'm very much impressed I think the potential is used I want to support you in this um and uh I think we can make this work you know I I I tried to compare it a little bit I know there're apples and oranges but I looked at the ocean center right and I kind of just asked some preliminary questions we get about 400,000 visitors there uh a year and we spend $1 million annually there so we spend and and and it's still upside down well not our money George will be quick to tell you that's not our taxpayer money that we're spending right that's because you guys have schooled me on that yeah that's correct that's yeah right it's run not Apples to Apples right that's what I said yeah it's not apples and orange I'm just I'm just trying to describe the attendance right and and the money that's invested in it regardless of where it comes from I get you so the investment that's made overall in in the Ocean Center and and it doesn't make money I'm not trying to bash you enter I'm just saying that this Pro fora speaks for itself where uh in year four you're making money and you have a probably a national attracting attracting site I like it I want to find out what's the next steps to support you in do this thank you okay I have one more question for for you if you don't mind um I'm I'm wondering about uh liability who holds a liability are you self-insured or who who buys the insurance so there is insurance that you can obtain for the parks um so typically like for uh pagora the Air Park holds a minimum threshold of insurance that we have to to you know obtain um for the park so when it comes to liability you have waivers um there's a lot of different technology type things that you can do for liabilities from even caution lighting um yeah sorry about that so and different aspects so but no there there are insurance companies out there that you can go ahead and get to cover your liability what do you do what do I I have insurance that covers my liability you're self-insured yep okay no no I'm not self-insured I have insurance that covers it yeah that's what I meant you're paying for the insurance correct okay okay and that's covered by entrance fees and everything else yeah I mean it's the what's paying for the park is the entrance fees yeah um whether it's Spectators or Riders that's what's covering the cost okay thank so welcome thank you very much um Don I'm going to put out where I am right now just so cuz I'd like to hear from the the rest of the council um the uh I I really want this to work um somewhere it is a you know my family I think part of your family too is into equestrian Sports and there's a lot of money in that people families spend a huge I see a lot of heads nodding I they spend a lot of money and and they it's a family event families go it's just good clean fun well Motorsports is is really the same thing the families spend a lot of money with doctors and you know it's fun it's clean um this is a much in my opinion I really like this location better than than the forest we we just get rid of the all the baggage that comes with that um this is really a sport now it's just not pleasure riding through the woods this is a controlled sport um my where I am with it right now is it I'm I'm really leaning towards option three because I think it's more consistent with our the goals that we set of reducing the size of government trying to reduce our our um expenses um I I think you as well Don um really want to go to roll back next year and I when I look at $10 million now you said you think it can be done cheaper I look at $10 million I'm heing $10 million all the time when it comes to Sun Rail and all these things that we have to look at um so I like um scenario three um self-insured or that the County's not carrying the liability and without taxpayer money spent on um on building it and certainly not on on running it I just I want to reduce the size of government and I want to increase the enjoyment of living in our county of having something like this too I think we can I I think we can get there um I just don't want to add another division Department to the county and all the expense of of um of of maintaining that so that's that's just kind of where I am right now can I respond to that am I allowed to or not Danny's next but do you mind Mr Robbins if he responds I was going to help you out Don I was checking with Jake to see if I could actually talk yet or not no Don I'm going to support on this cuz we can sit up here this is economic development as far as I'm concerned when we can give a million dollars to airline companies in a blink of an eye okay and stick our necks out with that kind of gamble this to me is just uh even though I did not support it I think this right here uh to hit on what David said is going to be in the in the positive within a short amount of time um I'll make a motion to uh approve it but I'm going to I'll just make a motion to approve it approve What scenario a b or c I'm moving for B actually and I can explain why B I'll explain why okay uh Troy can't still in front of you go ahead yeah so before I vote on on something like this where we're just getting information from the um expert excuse me I I would just need a little more information and one of the things Don I think you're going to be able to answer for me is this this idea of an RV park there what is the average stay because unless you're participating or watching your fan no one's going to want to just go and use the RV park and listen to this you know like oh I'm going to go have an enjoyable RV visit and I want to listen to Motocross so what is the average night stay can I can we play the first video let me just and if you don't mind before the video no I just we just wonder how many nights do you normally stay when you go well Moto Bros is here I'm I'm sorry Moto sandbox is here and they are a training facility which is another thing we were considering here they have people that come down I don't know if you want to talk to Jason Baker he owns he trains the top Pros in the country and the top amateurs they come from they stay at his place from California from Minnesota everywhere they live on site and they train year around Florida is a destination now for this sport because you can't train you around in Minnesota you can't train you around in Seattle or New York you got to come to a warm climate this is the new Hub because of the California regulations everybody this is it this is the spot for Motocross is it a one night two night three night you're round no I mean like when you go to an event Don like you're going to a facility you're going to go there how many nights do you stay oh well the in Thanksgiving is eight days okay so the reason I there was a reason I asked I was going to just add to that really quick um in terms of a projection standpoint again we do tend to be on the conservative side just to give a more realistic or conservative approach so we only modeled out based on events um that it would be two nights uh per so for the event day it would just be those 50 spots per uh if you can see those Motocross events RV slips so those 50 slips basically per event so we were conservative in that approach but I just wanted to sorry for interjecting just wanted to add that little tidbit there if I wasn't clear uh the first time around explaining okay if I could just answer one thing real quick uh Troy is it's mostly dry camping so we don't have to have the hookups we don't have to have everything's dry camping most people at these places don't have RV hookups right the place in Gainesville and I don't know if you want to roll that clip real quick I just this is this is two months ago my son was there this is the event that they were talking about that draws 6,000 people this sets world records for the last four years and all these people here have raced it I don't think it's coming up yet but this will just show you the amount of RVs that come to this event it's the first 800 sell out in literally 10 minutes when it's comes time for sign up and no that's the believe that's the wrong one no that's the wrong one the other one good one though that is a good one that's a a silent movie for Jake over there I didn't want to hit you with too much did he just lose a vote but I just want to I just want to answer that because I I want you to see the potential that this has if we want it to get this big it doesn't have to get that big but this is okay this is the mini Olympics this is Gainesville gatorback and figures you can't see it each one of those this is an aerial of each one of those is an RV with a trailer on the back of it and this has 6,000 people this initial the site here is 80 acres this is the one that brought in a world record for the fourth year in a row 6,000 people from all over the world my son's class had kids from almost I think every state Czech Republic France Argentina Mexico Canada from everywhere this this is such an incredible international sport now and all these people here will attest to that the blonde lady in the back lives in an RV at that facility that Mr Baker owns over in grovin I mean this sport it's just you don't deal with it all the time I've been doing this for 50 years I actually did a feasibility like I said 20 years ago on the same exact spot actually coincidentally I mean it's going to work are you flying the Drone and no this is actually a professional but that just shows you the number of RVs that come in and uh probably 80% of those are dry camping Troy so we don't have to do the RV hooked up and spend that money away with dry camping and that's what I I I camp with my family and our camper for 12 years and like I'm just thinking about me or my kid out you know on a on a motorbike and the last thing I would I would want to do is dry camping I saw that there would be electric and water and my thing was we purposely would not stay at campsites if they they didn't have the sewer hookup right because it just it just makes it so much more convenient and you know I didn't want to have to go to a dump station that's why I was asking the number of days because if you're there two days like the expert was saying the dump station's fine that works for basically everybody there um you know but when these individuals come in you know they're staying the night they need to they need a place to take a shower and their RV yeah and if they have sewer hookup I just think it's better I I feel like if you're going to do it do it right the first time don't come back and have to spend more money down the road to to add something that the people may may want right now um I think that that being said you know Don I um you know I I told this Council first meeting when we sat here that if it was important to you meaning any of you it was important to me that I would want to talk about it and and and hopefully help and support you know something a new initiative and I can't don't know if it was um David actually I think it was the chairman that said it and it was something along the lines of you know this provides um sort of like a like a a different quality of life for people more options things to do something to do in our community and not to go down that road but that's where I was with the dog friendly section of the beach something for our residents so is there going to be a friendly section at the I thought that was my front yard thank you because yeah um I listen with my three and a half minutes left you know I was going there with it Don and I and I'll keep railing about it thank you by the way gentlemen six to one vote on that thank you Mr Robins for making that motion I don't forget um but Jake you were there with me from day one man day one but um you know that being said I have had one other resident just so you know I've had one resident reach out to me and ask for this you know I wish I was saying I've had hundreds reach out and say Hey you know I want this this is something in our community I really want I'll have to get with staff and find out more about exactly the distance from homes because this is a super fun super exciting super loud event maybe not like gator Nationals loud but you know motorbikes are loud and you know I hear about like a burm and and some um bamboo you know and things and it just I'm just letting everybody know that could derail me is negatively impacting the everyday lives of someone in a home who's like I didn't sign up for this I don't want to listen to this every day because I that's me I I'd be losing my mind if this was coming next to my home and I had to listen to this ever even if it's like well it's once a year if if you know that's the case so I just want to make sure from staff get some reassurances how far we would be from future homes coming there um but then I I could I could be swayed for this I'm not a I'm not a definite no and Don I got to tell you you've been talking about this since like month one and I love that you know you're following through on something that you're passionate about you did it growing up you've shared that with us we've heard about it almost as much as someone talks about the jail just kidding but um you know no really I mean you know you're passionate about it and uh you know the type of dad you are you know you you talk about your son and the experiences you guys have together it's it's um it's wholesome actually so I I I appreciate that I just need a few assurances to get me completely on board okay Don before I call on you I hope when you talk you'll make your son stand up um so we can all see him because I well maybe everybody else can see him he's being blocked by that computer for for me but um wh while you're while you're talking would you to I you just said that you wanted to do this on private property yourself I'd like to hear why that didn't work or why you decided against it and then anything else he wanted to say Mr chairman can I a quick question are we are we still in question or we in debate and do we have a motion and do we have a second and I just want to get back on track love the story Don but I just want to know where we are we have a motion I'm not sure if it's for ab or C I can I clarify that right now Danny is it okay I would like to make make a motion to approve for staff to come back with the details for a scenario B and scenario C cost benefit safety everything that has to do with both of them to ensure that we want to go in the right direction because both of them have their pros and cons and we haven't allowed staff to furly investigate those that's my motion so motion B and C to have that information come back to the council so that we can that is correct make a is there a um a second for that I'll second the motion was made uh Don I gave you credit for it but it was it was by Jake Johansson and the second was by David Santiago okay Don debate I don't even think I have anything to say really I mean it's uh why didn't you why didn't you do it yourself on private property oh that question yeah well I did it was actually in the same location it was on landfill property and it was ding the nimi program the exact coincidentally the exact location 20 22 years ago it went through that's when well J with Jee pal Meer and Bill Bill Gilly back then and uh it was it was a long process you know how I've been working on this for a year and a half how long have you said I've been talking about this and pushing for this and yeah and I got just kind of pH I had other you know I've heavily been in real estate development and stuff on the side besides my law practice and I just got to be honest with you t t Fed Up with the bureaucracy of it to be honest with you and I just moved on to something else cuz it just it was too much red tape and just honestly but who who owned the land then it's the same thing same spot same exact spot and uh that's they did the RC Park back then they did there was a fish hatchery there was a couple others and it went along it was going but it was just so much red there was nothing like nothing bad about it it was just that was it and um you know I I just I know to work I I believe I've said in the past about is this part of my debate I know I've said in the past about um I think this could be done for two million you know and I you know we just at our state of the county address we just boasted up the pickle ball facility in the county I think kicked in $2 and5 million doar for pickle ball and that's great and all but I mean that's kind of souped up shuffle board for older people I mean now we've got we got nothing personal but I mean now we got kids we got to get these kids I mean everybody complains about the kids being on their computer Hill I know no I think it's great but I mean I think it's great that we're that the Count's kicking in this is Echo this is for Parks this is this is an outdoor what's that butt okay I'm just saying this is why we need this and that's why I'm pushing for option b because option b is I think the county should kick in a couple million dollars for the road roads getting in for the utilities getting out there in that one mile stretch whatever that takes to get it site ready and then let the and I think that's what probably the the potential developers would want as well is some uh stake money from the county because we are building a park we are building something to get these kids out there doing stuff besides sitting on their tablets and it's not all just about walking trails and pickle ball and that kind of stuff we got to get these kids out doing BMX football fields baseball fields outdoor activities of all kinds to get them exercising and there's a lot of benefits to this sport that maybe you don't realize I think that's what a lot of these people are here to talk about is what it offers families and so that's why Mr chairman go ahead I think it's getting nine o'clock I think we got the votes can I call the question uh not yet we've got a lot of the public wanted to speak okay I think you're looking good public and uh Jake Johansson sure I I I'm there's a couple things that were discussed today I I think if we vote that we can take care of it in the following conversation but um I spend two weeks dry camping in the infield of Daytona International Speedway and and I have no problem uh getting pump out every once in a while so so there's there's ways around that if we if we don't do s that can be arranged in scenario B andc what I'd like to do is ask a quick question to George or or somebody out there to kind of explain public private Partnerships or p3s because scenario B isn't it and scenario C is kind of sort of it so if if you could clarify that because there might be some hybrid in there that I think would be interesting well I think you're you are talking about a little bit of a hybrid but uh uh with B you are building the facility and and having them run it uh you know and that is uh and maybe sharing in profits the way it reads C is the you know we provide very basic the road and uh utilities and the land and uh they go ahead and uh invest uh at that part so they're they're both you know a public private partnership it's just how much of a partner do we want to be and in B we're more of a partner and C we're more of here's the land uh we're going to collect a lease payment basically we're going to put a minimal amount uh up front I say minimal but it' be whatever it takes to do the um uh Utilities in the road so um I think those here or two uh um I like the idea of maybe coming back with a little bit more analysis between B and C as long as everybody you know we're looking today that do a do we have a go ahead I think I'm hearing like we probably do and then we can study a little bit more between B and C and what will uh what we would need to provide and then what would could come in through uh a solicitation um that they um come in and and put in as part of the that that solicitation we could phase it as we talked about uh there's a lot of ways you can go at that point with uh benchmarks or they're going to provide this by a certain date um and then maybe this farther down the road um we could you know look at how we would do the leasing you know maybe because in the beginning uh they are putting more money in we wouldn't expect an actual lease payment till maybe a little later in the process um again those could all be uh lined out as part of a solicitation and the the analysis could include uh funding sources yes yeah and that's a uh it's on my list here I was uh when we we got done would be uh for clarification you know what we would think uh we're going to be doing for funding sources and uh I heard eeko a few minutes ago it probably would have um be eligible but we we have an echo process um that certainly would be uh something we want to look at and then I didn't know if it was the council's desire do you want us to engage in the the neighborhood now or do you want to wait a little farther along see uh uh if there was an engagement process uh or you know any concern from the neighborhood I don't have I tried to measure it out here on Google Maps to get the uh uh uh distance maybe you can put it up there and you can take a look so you get you so where you see the Daytona Beach Radio Control Association that's the that's the property we're talking about that would be about in the center so you see uh okay you're looking uh yeah I can't tell I mean uh you you hit that house I think there's another house closer but basically you're looking at a, there you go 1500 1500 00 ft to the nearest house and and I will add George so you know the landfill owns North as well as Port Orange but 12,000 acre longleaf pine preserve is what is to the west and then further south it's owned jointly by the county and the City of Port Orange and also the homes that are coming in to develop you got homes on the east side of tamoka Farms Road here and then some additional development that's occurring up here which is terbly further away and I I guess I would point out the right above the G and uh c& G Hunt Club that particular area there that that Lake uh north of there go back up they won't care right here the that area there is your new cell that uh we'll be putting uh tens of millions of dollars in shortly to be building for your next 100 Years of uh life for your landfill Jake I'm outside sir thanks okay uh Matt Reinhardt actually I think George just answered I was curious as to how close the homes were so thank you CU I know that we going back to the NASCAR thing how close they are to the speedway and but I know that this is a longer operation it's open daily I get that so it's not just special events um Troy do you want a fountain with it or okay Vice chair Kent thank you chairman so for me George yes I say yes to reaching out now to the homeowners and getting their input and then the other thing you know Jake made the motion and it seems like a a lot of um governments local governments especially they don't they don't want to be involved in businesses it's like we don't want to do that it's a big no no and I think about Hannah Park up in Jacksonville they have 300 camp sites and if you've never been and if you like to ride bicycles through Trails it is unbelievably great and you know it's owned by the city of Jacksonville 300 campsites owned by the city they actually have Frontage on the ocean over 400 Acres the whole thing and it's difficult to get in there and I loved it that the city kept it and they have their employees and they make the money for their resident and I'm not interested in making somebody else rich on County dime I'm just not so like we're absolutely not even looking at option A because I think many local governments don't want to get involved in businesses like not it's not our job we don't want to be involved in the business I don't think there's anything wrong with a local government making money for their residents and if this is going to be as successful as some of us are are um you know touting what's wrong with the county of volution making money on this instead of making someone else rich like I saw the numbers on one of those and it was like brings in between $ 1.3 and $1.6 million a year and their annual costs are $300,000 a year well that sounds like they make between a million and a million3 a year yeah sign me up I'm in let's do that why don't we do that for our our residents and let them make the money and decrease the taxes because we're we're doing something like that so I I I mentioned that because I didn't know if if and I would have seconded if um Mr Santiago didn't Mr Johansson but I didn't want to necessarily leave option A off the table for staff to come back with us if we're just option b and c I'm not afraid for us to make money I don't think any of us are but for us to even if we're going to do it take the risk so I was that was my plea to add option A to it okay uh George right now the uh the motion is B and C and so you're going to bring back information on both of those would will that include um I think I'm asking because I think I heard you mentioned or one of the council members um going out also to um the the speedway maybe barbar Speedway maybe new samna Beach Speedway [Music] um well I have talked to the like I say uh um the ISB you know the the those folks because I knew they had uh they owned uh AMA and uh and again they put on a large event already uh um so uh I asked about their interest and concerns cuz I didn't know you know how they felt would they not want the competition or how would they take it or feel and they again they were very not only did they they embraced it they they want the idea of having and growing the sport uh right here in Valia County so they looked at it a lot more like I say their relationship like with New Smyrna Speedway is a positive one because they uh their drivers start in places like that and uh and they know they have to grow the sport so they saw that they saw this as an extension of that and again they may be a sanctioning uh body for uh for events they they would definitely be open to that um like I say they they kind of wanted to see where it was going and then they wanted to participate uh Barberville didn't come up in that conversation uh but again that you know that's certainly another facility that that's out there already um with their focuses and they have a large following I know for go-kart racing and thing for kids and they have kind of a different um a different Motorsport that they they focus on yeah I don't know if they have enough land for this or not exactly so but but I think I I just want to say I mean you know we're still at the uh we're trying to see what some of the best models are I would say uh to Mr Kent's thought about us running it um I think we're good at running some things and then there's other things that I would I would uh be a little leery about because of the complexity of the sport that we don't have that kind of inhouse knowledge so that's why I think the B and C part is you you get involved with these uh racing organizations and they're bringing that I think to the table of their knowledge and their you know these places were mentioned already have events so I'm assuming they have um uh sanctioning bodies and things that they're they're part of and they're running these events and I think that's what you're picking up U versus uh you know us fully running it all the way but B and C that like I say the difference is I think in B we're helping to build the that facility um and then we're partnering in the profits and C uh is more of a land lease so you know in theory we're making money we just wouldn't be making as much money but we would be getting a Le lease payment and uh we could take a look at what the it would take to get our investment back as far as uh running the utilities uh or repairing the road or upgrading the road that's something that we would analyze next I think uh in the next phase okay thanks Ju Just One More uh question to just so I'm sure I understand it in scenario C it's real clear it says request proposals for the development lease and operation of the facility same thing in in B except for um development we develop more of it other words it would be that you're putting out proposals to run it yeah but it' be more all right but now um the proposal to run it okay uh David Santiago thank you George I just wanted to add Mr chairman is um you know and can I get where you're going with um George on the option a i i I'd be okay with leaving it on the table leaving it on the table for you all to to look at it not excluding it maybe your conversations with I'll say NASCAR turn out differently well I think we have a little bit work to do and during that period of time I mean you know we're not going to we don't have to throw out a like you say it's there and we see what we find out maybe it it it puts us to a Direction Where We want to do uh do more or more involvement so um I wouldn't exclude his I'm just say I don't but I do know that we could get Troy's full support if we put a pond with a light in it if we did that he's on board if you if you if if you had a fountain and it was lit lit lit and there was a dog friendly section around there you're tickling my buyin bone is what you're doing and I like where you're going with it okay so I I think we've come to the end of it um so all three scenarios so amended by Johansson I second that Amendment okay so now we we have all three scenarios a b and c so I want to make it real clear to the people that have sat out here through all of this um that tonight you're not getting a decision on which one it is but we're we're moving forward and staff will come back with more information on these three scenarios uh we each have our preferences so we'll deal with it in uh in a few weeks I guess any um any time any certain time frame that this will come back I can't do that right now to these guys I got a uh next week not next week so let me uh we'll meet and then I can report back to you when we uh but I I I know one thing my phone won't go long without Don give me a call to see where it's at so uh uh it'll definitely be um Mr chairman can I just add maybe if the council agrees that it would be something that would be in the timeline for this next upcoming budget to be considered for that time period when is that we're going into budget in a few months oh yeah but it's to the next budget to to that it matches that timeline when I can fund it yeah or not correct well you have that and and the Echo Cycles that you need to uh be involved with so Echo Cycles can be amended I learned this week by the way oh that's sorry I just got informed that we we we're not tied to the cycle so okay okay yeah thank you okay uh don Dempsey the only thing I would I would ask Mr Mar to come back up then because I I Jason you want to come up real quick I I just I don't think option A is even going to be a appealing to any potential track owners yeah um and I'll ask Mr Baker maybe if you'd want to say that as well my understanding is option b is pretty much what's already been going on in Dade City which has been in business for 40 years and I know the owner is not a multi-millionaire down there by any St in my opinion at least but could you tell us as a potential operator I guess um what what is appealing to you since you've done public private Partnerships with other counties yeah you know I saw this happen with uh it was Palm Beach County and Palm Beach was kind of looking in between all three as well um option A they took off the plate pretty quickly they didn't want to deal with the liability of the sport and all that inherit just everything that goes into it because it is it's a 247 project right when you have people camping there it's it just it turns into a big project and you really have to have a knowledge for what you're doing in order to do it um option b was where they were going with it and then it shortly went to option C okay option C we saw every single person that was interested drop off so they put in a RFP I think there was three um candidates that were moving forward and then they moved it to option C and and everybody fell off we were actually the last ones that held on to it um reason being is at such an investment into the property I'll just be honest with you my view of it was why am I going to invest $5 million into somebody else's property why would I not just go buy the property for another million and do it that way um which honestly is what we ended up doing at that time period so unfortunately for Palm Beach that went away now they're actually coming back to Circle and trying to trying to bring this Back In a Different Light um but that's where option C just it it doesn't really make sense from a track owner's perspective or operator because again if you're putting that much money into something what's the benefit of it not being your land so so and that's where option b is that's where it becomes more attractive so it's okay it's a shared expense and a shared revenue and that you know moves the project forward so and then option A you know if you want to get into doing Motocross and tracks and everything else God bless you question could could you um go ahead what you heard this number 10 Mill million I mean what could actually be spent do you think to get this thing up and going to phase one where we don't have to have the brick and mortar facilities and RV hookups and all that so I've now done three parks and I have not spent anywhere near 10 million on either Park um and even if you look at UB I do have septic and Sewer for the RV sites okay um you know and that that that goes all over but I truly believe for the park it should be somewhere between 3 to 5 so if at a 3 to Five Million number you should be able to get the park up running and done very well I mean if you go to okobe I think somebody here yeah so um you know and I just met him this evening and uh you know our objective was really taking parks to that next level Motocross is one of those sports that it's kind of been a little little Backwoods is and not as professional and that's our biggest thing is taking it to that level and making every single person that comes to that gate feel like a professional okay um and if you don't mind just giving me two minutes it was tonight we sat through a whole bunch of talk about development development development right well this is what we need for kids to have something to do okay with all this development happening all over this state this is there's nothing else for these kids to do that's what got me into I actually semi retired and it didn't last very long only because this is my passion my kids love this sport I love this Sport and I hate to see my children on iPads iPhones computers you know just gaming consoles it absolutely drives me nuts you know and I I heard a lot of different things tonight about you know why not right right traffic I will tell you right now the the amount of traffic imple you know that's going to take place due to this is not going to hinder traffic at all okay road paving there's a lot of different options between millings and things like that that can cut costs as well okay so we're not pavid at all okay I like millings but if we can you know majority of all tracks are dirt roads going into facilities okay as far as noise goes as long as you're 500 ft away the decel reading is going to be under 60 DB okay so as long as you have a 500t buffer to that next house you'll be under 60 DB okay which is typically what's allowed I'm not too sure what it is in this County um but I know a majority of counties if you're under 60 that's fine um as far as RV stays we talked about that okay we have people that will come down all winter long and stay I mean even right now if you go on to any one of our sites our RV sites are sold out okay so we have people that come down they they come down from Canada they stay great lengths of time um we have people that you know would stay all year round if we would let them but we try not to um so langsa stay people will stay they love this sport they live and breathe the sport they live in their RVs they travel from track to track to track okay um as far far as amenities you know we did talk about it yes okay a dump station works okay electric electric is great not needed right in the beginning um you know someone mentioned a dog park funny part is we have a dog park at okobe okay um and we do have a fountain with a light at our facility in Alva with a light so there you go don hates a dog um but no it's a it's it's an amazing sport guys I absolutely love it okay my perspective from a county running it I'm not sure that's that's where you would really want to be um you know on a a b and a cide b makes sense for everybody C my fear would be you're going to end up wasting a lot of time and end up exactly where Palm Beach did with nobody looking to move this forward so thank you were you done yeah I'm done in the in the meantime you could introduce him to Stony 6man show him some land well well you know Stony did this forever too did he yeah and that's true he did yeah we have uh Danny I'm not forgetting you um just get a nod from the audience we have 12 people that sat here all night that wanted to speak do you still want to speak thank you a couple of them do so I'll I'll call I'll call the names and if you want to speak come come forward uh Danny Robbins first oh I was getting get ready to call getting ready to okay um I believe Jason Baker is the gentleman that raised his hand I think he's I think it's gonna pass okay uh D Darren did you want to speak Matt or Nate Ingram he wants to speak okay okay which one are you Jason Baker okay um my name is Jason Baker I uh own Moto sandbox which is down in Lake County it's a uh like Mr Dempsey said we train top Riders amateur all the way through Pro uh right now current points leader trains at our facility um for 20 years I have constructed courses all over the world I'm currently in contract to uh do the second phase of the Poke County bone Valley project um I'm contracted to do the rcsx at Daytona Speedway so all the questions that you guys have I've done that for 20 years um I am a contractor I build these Parks I build them privately I build them publicly I've been involved with all of the factory teams I've managed their Test Facilities for them all throughout California um so the the questions and concerns that you have I have data for all of those things um it's great I'm a pop County resident born and raised it's it's awesome that I'm involved with that project with the county uh doing something like this I'm just here for to show support that this this can and will be successful for you guys for valua County I would just love to um be able to be an advocate a consultant whatever it is that I may help you guys along with this this is what I've done I mean I've worked with the Swift Mud through the years I have to adhere to all their um I've built a a park up in Jacksonville I've dealt with the St John's Water Management District so um anything any of the concerns that you guys have had as far as how to build it where to get the dirt um like Mr Mara said there's so many ways to cut costs on on this thing um this thing can absolutely be done at a a much substantially less rate than than what has been proposed and um these this is my specialty so that's why I'm here to offer that assistance at at whatever capacity that is and um I just appreciate the the opportunity to speak I know it's late but I just wanted to offer that because this is doing what you guys are about to build is what I've done for 20 years all throughout the Florida the country and the world um so thank you thank you very much um jod does Jody want to speak are you the the blonde that was referenced earlier I'm Jody Ma and um I am actually the transporter please talking to the microphone sorry that's all right where are you from transporter mechanic for that Rider and we race all over the country National level um previous fuchia County resident for many many years we had to unfortunately leave belusa County for me to pursue the level of training that I needed to get for my child I was driving way too many hours during the week hour here hour and a half there wherever we needed to be and I just needed to transplant us to another location so that we could actually have a life and not just spend it all on the road M um there's so much stuff that I want to talk about but you guys kind of like opened up new new conversation and I I obviously don't have enough time to talk about it but I implore you to reach out to these guys in this panel I mean we all every weekend we're all over the country um we've been to all the big events and and nothing against H hun hunting strategic Partners but they don't live it like we live it and you you're questioning the the arrival and the traffic and we come staggered so we don't have a lot of cluster of traffic we leave staggered we don't ride past dark I don't want my kid blush you I don't want my kid on the track when it's dark outside the noise levels We're Off The Track by dark um during the day it's you know there it's intermittent with the different Siz bikes so you might have the quiet bikes for a little while then you might have one Rush of the little bit louder bikes and it's something that you know it makes it more tolerable to to the whoever might hear it that would live adjacent to the track um I wish we could just have like a a Q&A with all these people and anything you guys would want to would want to know everybody here has been doing it for a decade I mean it it's it's almost laughable to hire an outside study unless it's required by the county when you have so many professionals that have been doing this for so long sitting right in your chairs and that's it thank you thank you um Don I'm wondering if the do the writers stagger when they leave sorry never mind Nate is Nate Ingram want to speak see what you started now well I'm a real estate broker and you know we don't ever talk brief we want to get up and talk to front of everybody uh Mr chairman I appreciate you allowing us to come and speak tonight I'm I'm still a Valia County resident I live in the large urban area called Samsula yeah uh practically a neighbor to this site very excited about it coming in uh I have 10 acres out there and so when my children and I raised we had to build our own track because we didn't have a local facility and as you can see by the folks gathered here tonight that have been here for about 5 hours now and listened to some really interesting statements about the abilities of the council um we're here to support you guys and what you're trying to do and I realized it's kind of a rarity nowadays people just want to come before you and talk about what the council isn't doing we're here to support you and what you are doing uh for us as parents uh for the kids that are gathered here some of them I've been watching since they're on very little bikes and now I get to watch them on television which is actually really cool so I I urge you to support this I'm glad you guys are moving forward with this you know if you do have questions for that I I encourage you to get involved any of these parents here could help you out as far as the logistics go dry camping anything like that uh you do have tremendous assets here in the fact that Jason is here tonight Jason Baker traveled here probably at Great expense because I'm sure there's a dozer somewhere that's calling his name instead he felt it was that important to be here instead of dealing with his International clients and so that should tell you he's not here for himself he's here to support the sport and what you guys are trying to do so with that I'm going to close because there's still a minute 30 left and you know how Brokers are thank you landed Courier you care to speak pass uh John Nicholson pass John nson Tona beach side um actually I come from a city um that was a small City and I when I worked at the University uh the airport in Miami um another small City came down and packed up one of our businesses and headed North to Daytona Beach it's done very well in Daytona Beach it's called Emy Riddle University years ago a gentleman wanted to start a racing Club in Bill France leased some land from the county and B and built a track you already have your uh image of what you want to do on this property it's County property that the racetrack sits on it's County property that generates you'd be surprised how many billions of dollars into the city of Daytona Beach so what I'm asking you is one no to what you're planning to that it be the largest dirt track in the United States that it' be the finest dirt track in the United States Daytona Beach has nine events over 125,000 people we have over 12,000 hotel rooms whatever you put out there we're ready for we have two RV parks within five minute drive of this location so you have your RV parks that you need and driving five minutes is not that far to ask in the beginning all right I don't like the site that you've chosen because it's right next to a bunch of houses all right they say a th000 ft but that road goes down even further and they're going to build homes on it so within 10000 ft you're going to have houses why ask for trouble there's another location where you don't have to build a road it's far from any house so when you come into the um landfill that um Administrative Office there's a road to the right put it right there it is surrounded by landfill nobody's going to be bothered by it you don't have to build a road we have equipment believe it or not at the landfill that moves dirt so we can build a track within a year we can take those trees out do all we need to do at very little expense we have what's called racing and wreck for funding we have Echo for funding we have free land we have a company that does this for a living the tonan National Speedway does this for living so I'm asking you to think about that thank you Amanda morber hello so I have like a whole speech filled up but I don't need it so my son started riding at 5 years old can you make sure you're speaking to the mic sorry I'm short okay so my son started riding at 5 years old he wanted dirt bike told him no unless you can ride a bicycle without training wheels not going to buy it he went out to the garage took his training wheels off the rest is history he's now almost 17 years old since then every weekend we're at a dirt bike track somewhere we have to travel he is National level we don't have any facilities in bla County so our only option was for him to move live in an RV in a different area you have you know up in Jacksonville or down south being a mom of a 17-year-old that's kind of rough if there was one here in Valia County he would be right here where we lived so that's perfect um I mean I just think it brings families together every weekend every holiday Minos you guys saw the video of that's Thanksgiving literally every Thanksgiving we're all together so you're in newna correct yes I'm in samna so very good that's it thank you you're welcome um Andrea Lee from South Daytona yes Andrea from South Daytona but just for two years my husband and I were in California for 30 9 and we left and I couldn't be more prouder to be a valua county citizen than I am today uh my husband and I own an online virtual school called on track school it's called on track school because our son who now 32 um was a national champion and also raced over in Europe and so um 90% of the students at on track School are Motocross Riders and just like many of these people here have said we are a family and so this sport is just I mean look at these people right I mean we hung out for five hours because that's what we do and you know when we did learn about what Don's initiative was I'm just so excited I think if any of my high school students were here tonight I'd give them a Year's credit of civics because this conversation is so positive it's not a No it's it's looking for the best place for this and utilizing the resources that you have so if there's anything that I could do as an educator or an advocate for for racing I'd love to be a part of it thank you thank you Mike Rogers thank you Mike uh Jason Mara again okay thank you for your input tonight uh JJ mandez oh come on you're the you're the one Don wanted to hear from I'll get my two oh I JJ Mendes I'm from Massachusetts um I'm a cop up there and I also own an excavation business and I own a track um I think it's great what you guys are doing it takes kids off the street like they said it puts them in a safe environment uh you don't have to worry about them trespassing all people's property and crossing over the place and it works so great um like they said earlier with the other tracks it you cut the cost the cost you guys have that I saw I laughed at him when Don showed him to me I was like that's ridiculous you do it a lot lot cheaper and so I just want to say I think everything's great I think you should get rid of your experts you got looking doing all your all your analysis and look at everybody behind you like they said earlier and talk to us we know how to build a track we know how to do we know what you guys need we don't need them to give us these little numbers and tell tell us what what they think we need we don't we don't need to go by that so I think you should reach out to us get our numbers and and go from there thank you did you bring any coh Hogs did you bring any coh Hogs down with you no no no what I can send some uh Logan tell us where you're from tell us how old you really are and tell us where you rank so I'm Logan mortberg I grew up in uh Delona uh I we just recently moved to Orman uh well I'm my dad's in Orman my mom's in new samna um I'm 16 um my mom was the one that said you know if you had to take your training wheels off to uh get dirt bike and you know I really wanted a dirt bike and so I did just that yeah I may have fallen a few times but you know I learned right that's right and so when you go to these these tracks you know we're driving hour and a half if maybe more like hour and a half's minimum um and so we're having to spend all this gas money time away from the family and you know when we go to these long events yes we bring family but it's not just your family that you're at these tracks with you're with everyone's family and you know one person needs help everyone helps them um and it's not that it's like a you know we show up we do our thing and we all leave up the same time we we go staggered you know one class finishes they leave the the next class does and it's not like we're all like okay 5:00 we're leaving like we we do it at a different time um and you know I grew up and I had to obviously we had to travel so you know that took time away from me learning how to ride a bike that took time from my parents being able to work and you know provide for the family so you know if we do have a track in bla County would it would make it easier on these families um they'd be able to not not have to travel as much and you know be home at night and not have to sleep in an RV and yes RVs are comfortable you know we we don't have to have hookups we don't have to have sewer we we gladly live without the power hookups and stuff but yes it makes it nice but we don't have to have it um but that's all thank you very much your mom is raising a Salesman uh Tristan Lane hello I'm Tristan Lane um I grew up right here in Dand Florida super proud of that uh I feel like I could speak pretty well to this um growing up riding here was really difficult uh I started my backyard just riding in the sand and then eventually rode all the trails I feel like I probably uh rode every possible area in Dand and I needed this opportunity uh greatly I I'm actually envious of these future kids they're going to really love it and it's going to help them ton I've traveled the whole country um currently I'm a professional Motocross and Supercross racer so to be able to do this for a living is my dream I'm living it every day but um this future generation could benefit so much it keeps these kids out of trouble and it's uh really steered my life in a great Direction um getting to race in different countries and and truly living up my dream so I really ask that you guys uh hear us all out and understand that this sport is such a family sport environment and it's given me so much and um I really think it's going to help the community and uh as they mentioned we love to spend money in this sport we we love to go and support all this the local areas so I really think it would help um you know economically speaking a lot and uh yeah I just think it's going to be a really good thing all around so thank you so much for hearing us out how old are you6 thank you uh young Mr Dempsey he passed do you know who your father [Music] is okay thank you all for participating and um okay we have a motion uh on the floor from Don Dempsey um although I'm confused the motion was to bring back information on B and C no I amended the motion for a b and c um dedicate as much time to a as you possibly could want because I said B andc originally so I really don't care but I I would like to get to the vote is what I would like to do I that's what I'm asking for could we make it for b andc no I already amended it for a b and c so that's my motion and it was seconded no kidding okay all right the motion on the floor is to bring back information on Mo on a b and c uh by Jake Johansson I guess the second was by Don Dempsey I um so anyway if there's no other discussion all in favor say I I any opposed so we will it will come back at uh when staff is ready okay thank you all again very much um and uh as we move on to item six before uh Cyrus before you go I want to say since it was the airport was brought up you are killing it with a V Airlines and you scared off Melbourne and you're making money for us thank you um item six is contract with halip Halifax Paving Inc who's doing this Tad of local good luck okay Tad contract with Halifax pay saing ink for the Daytona Beach International Airport parcel 62 yes sir good evening Tad casbeer County engineer this is the approval of a Construction contract with uh Halifax Paving for $5.9 million to uh repay or to uh regrade the area uh known as parcel 62 which is in the South uh mid Central section of the airport uh north of bellw it will uh pull sand or fill from the southern side of bellev it uh basically supports the master plan that had been previously approved for the overall site but uh basically it's just moving the dirt from one site to the other a vast majority of the funding it comes from a Federal Grant from the Eda and uh the airport is making up the remaining amount okay and 3, 308,000 is from Grants yes sir all right uh David Santiago to approve second David Santiago makes a motion to approve second I believe it was by Danny Rob uh David do you have a comment nope anyone have a comment question for Tan all in favor say I I any opposed motion carries 7 to zero item uh 7A update of bills being considered in the 2024 legislative session John Booker Council uh John Booker government Affairs for valua County uh the manager asked to uh me to pull a couple of the bills that we're looking at uh filtering through the system in Tallahassee I've done that try to give you a little bit of a microcosm of of uh what the legislature is up to uh if there's any uh questions there is a short um recitation of what the bills are attempting to do um and so uh if you do have any questions about that if there's bills on not on this list i' be more than happy to get back with you at another moment in time when I can see what happened uh this today for one on on a couple of the bills so with that if you do have any questions or comments or um anything how long do we have uh March 8th so 21 days I'm not sure but um budget is still being worked on uh so some of the issues on the policy side won't be really resolved until the uh conference chairs get together they do allocations they figure out they bump it up to uh eventually the speaker and to the president and the Senate try to figure some things out but they have to uh approve the budget they have a three-day period where so uh the Tuesday before the Friday of the 8th they would need to finish that budget process um in order to have a three-day cooling off period okay I guess I'm really uh George before I yeah the purpose of this item is not only to inform you but also uh to seek a would you like to add any of these to our legislative agenda to actively support oppose or you want us to do monitoring that's uh what we're asking here today so um you know okay uh Jake Johansson maybe to answer your question yes sir I you know there's a there's a lot of bills that that are in both House and Senate that have that affect uh local rule um and and or home rule and and some of them make sense to me some of them don't make sense to me and this is throughout my time here my nine years or eight years I've been down here in fi County and I think it's important whether they make sense or not um uh to oppose them uh by large or at least have that discussion whenever it comes to whole home rule to discuss opposing them actively um and and that's where John can come in and tell us whether the uh faac supports what we want to do or doesn't and why um but but you know every every time I call uh my my representative or or My Senator um the answer is uh that ship is already sailed or I'm not going to oppose the um uh the the speaker or something um and and these are these are home rule issues so I I think it's important that we articulate to John as a councel I can tell him what I think but he doesn't giv a damn what I think he gives damn what we think as a council uh so um I think whenever we have a problem uh during during legislative session we ought to at least get a brief on the every once in a while and and decide what to do instead of just letting it go along and and have people comment to us that we're not doing anything so um and and that being um you know I I go through this list of bills I see what he sends on Friday nights and and uh um because we don't act I kind of engage myself but I think it's important that we engage as a council I do as well um just lost it is do you or does the County Attorney County Manager anybody I'm looking it Jake just said you know oppose them um Senate Bill 328 the live local part two is that not is that an improvement or does it make it worse it depends on who you are right I'll let Paulo address that so um I believe this bill is is what's Char characterized as more or less like a glitch Bill a what glitch glitch bill so uh one of the things is it's a little both there's still keeping the primary facts factors of live local so preemption is still an issue um they're still preempting all local governments what they are doing is they're amending some of the height Provisions so now the height provision um is is you know you don't have it doesn't apply um adjacent to military institutes doesn't apply in your airport overlays where height is an FAA regulated aspect I think they also change the height provision to I think 1.5 times the maximum height or three stories whichever is greater um so there's some some gives some takes um they also add I think floor area ratio to one of those things that is preempted um and then you must accommodate and I believe they also add in you must accommodate some of the parking Provisions um so it's not it's essentially a more clarification of preemption not really anything that is more beneficial from a hey you're preempted less we just now understand a little bit more of where we're being preempted rather than it just being anything and everything do we have anybody actively opposing it do we have a lobbyist that's opposing it or Mr Booker or trying to make it better yeah that that could be a result question here Paulo If you don't mind me asking on the this glitch bill for uh the L local act would it be in is your it would be an improvement at least from what's on the books it would be a clarification I'm not sure if I could characterize it as an improvement we we would just know we'll know you know how it's How the preemption works and how it works against other things such as height in adjacent to a Military Institute and height adjacent to in an airport overlay um also it fixes some of the the odd things like uh floor area ratio where yes they've you know you have to accommodate all that density but you're still Limited in the maximum square footage um that you can fit all those units in so they included some of those Provisions okay go ahead George just add a little bit so if you take these as a whole uh let you say 328 Maybe was neutral but all the rest of these hurt us in some shape form or another that's you know uh you can start off F FRS uh yeah depending on you know there is a little philosophical I guess uh thought there on on for retirees but uh I would say uh it's going to cost quite a bit of money so I think overall you're looking at between uh for the whole across all of our funds um in the neighborhood of $10 million so another train um building regulations uh uh this is uh again it's already pretty difficult to uh um make some of the time frames and requirements that we need to I I don't I think it's not necessary I I think we again that should be more of a local decision uh HB uh 479 uh that could be very harmful to us uh because we use an impact fee system uh this is uh is going to make it more difficult to collect impact fees and stuff that's built in cities and of course as we've talked about today there's a lot of building goes on in cities and then it affects our roads and if we can't collect the impact fees uh or if we have issues um it just makes it more difficult in an already difficult situation so I would be against that uh HB 609 we don't do uh you eliminated the uh the business uh tax receipt so it really doesn't matter to us um but then 1195 again that's taking away our local ability um I think we've been very responsible we've driven the millage rate down uh either to roll back or some portion of rack um every year um HP 1624 I think that's one Mike talked to you about a lot of the real harmful stuff has been taken out but again it uh it's taken away local control it's preemption I I wouldn't support it um uh and I wouldn't support 1628 uh again it uh uh you takes away our Authority and then uh this last one uh wmc5 taxation this could be particularly honorous uh because it affects the part of the tourist tax um that it funds our Ocean Center and our Ocean Center you know yes we have Deb which uh would not apply as it's written but uh we also operate uh the Ocean Center as uh was pointed out earlier is subsidized uh by this tax it is this tax we don't ever use property tax uh and this would require uh after so many years going back out for a referendum uh again I don't think it's uh um helpful at all uh for this particular tax um to have that and we're unique and we're one of only think three counties that have it separated the way it is um so so have no effect is written on the uh other side of the tourist tax which I think is where there's more interest at times uh but but that's the advertising side this has nothing to do with that it would really just uh affect uh our ability with the Ocean Center okay thank you um so my recommendation would be to oppose them all with the exception of uh you could be neutral on uh and we could just monitor uh sp sp 328 okay John any idea on you said or George just said uh a lot of the bad stuff from 1624 has been taken out do we know if it's going to reappear in another bill somewhere that sometimes happens we wait for 4:30 in the afternoon for bills to be so far you haven't seen it no okay that's that's all you can say at this point well I think there Mr chair if I could I it that language could reappear um may not uh there's still some language in it um 1628 that still is um hostile to local government Authority uh it's putting more work on City and County uh governing bodies when they enact ordinances to have U um business impact statements it's going to slow down it's removing exemptions for your zoning ordinances and so on so it's it's going to slow down that your ability to enact an ordinance I think that's going to be the Practical effect it's going to take more work um and it revises the process for someone to attack one of your ordinances and removes the same exemptions for your Land Development regulations uh largely from that um it subjects him to that challenge process so from a local government standpoint only I you know would say they're not local government friendly I mean they're putting more requirements on you um so yeah well which leads me to I think we should vigorously oppose it um then we'll see what the rest of the council thinks when we when we get there um John I'll just reiterate to to you as on 1624 and 28 um please let let me know if you you know when I need to go up there and speak to a committee or whoever um yeah because I I person I don't what regardless of what everybody else wants to do I want to oppose those I've sent letters to uh to uh Paul rer and Tom leak and and uh Senator Wright as as well as um our two Representatives um in 1624 um you I've reported to you in the past on it it's it's narrow but it it it's deep uh in the sense it kind of reminds me of a live local act just in a different context you know so your utilities uh such as Duke power for example if they wanted to have a what they call a resilience facility uh which would allow for storage was it liquefied natural gas Paulo yeah and natural gas to be stored it could be allowed in multiple zoning categories uh that you may maintain your industrial your manufacturing uh is it commercial as well and your commercial regardless of whether you you've made that a permitted use so it reminds me of live local in that way so from a local government standpoint it definitely eats away at your Authority and regulating your Landing categories about where certain uses are located thank you I think we should be concerned with that um David Santiago thank you Mr chair um when we say uh oppose what is that mean I want to be clarify on that before I make my comments it it we have that legislative agenda that you voted on uh that we put together early uh I think in January it would just add these to the list that we would hand off besides John when he's up there uh and there's committees he would you know at least wave an opposition maybe speak depending on what it is or our staff uh and then of course uh Southern strategies our lobbyists it gives them you know uh U clear knowledge that this body uh does not want this to happen and and it's this body that makes I think a little bit more of a difference than any individual I think as Mr Johansson said as well I mean uh now yes we get frustrated uh but I think it it starts with if we have it uh on that agenda it's very clear it's clear where our stanes uh so we can even go back later uh and you know this is the report card for you know what we sent uh goes to our delegation goes to you know every everybody knows what what it is we stood for and uh we'll see how they what were we supported in that or not sometimes it doesn't like I say he said we may be up against forces that are greater than than this and we understand that but I think it's important us to be on the record of where where we stand yeah and I would agree with that to be on the record I think and the reason I asked that for clarification is you know you know where are we going to really put any effort in you know bear some fruit right in in possible change in the actual work making a statement I agree um there are some of these that are that in my opinion are so far down in the process you're wasting your time um I wouldn't put any effort I would still say I'm opposed to it I get that right um but some of these um you know you right we understand that and uh but there are some with life to it and there are some just what was mentioned as you know something could come up late uh and at least again we're on the record for what we uh are standing for it gives us also a little bit of U um uh assurance that if you know he tells me something and we've found out something in a hurry I know where you guys stand it's very clear I can clearly say oppose or here's what we need to do uh it helps us in that manner I agree with but you're right in some cases we know we're running into to a brick wall yeah cuz we can't send John up there in our team say fight all seven or eight of these it's just you're going to be wasting your time now I I certainly think the Florida retirement system one is a is a one that we should be in the fight in the trenches with I know it's it's the house has been pushing this big time so they've lost it it hasn't pushed in the Senate bill but now they have it in the budget so it's in the back and forth that they're trying to negotiate it in the budget so the house is taking a position of strength with budget to try to convince the Senate so I would say that's a good one say Focus real efforts in the Senate to stay strong because the house is all in you're wasting your time focus in the Senate to fight that bill that's $10 million hit annually um the the live local you know we've talked about that that's a priority of the Senate President you're wasting your time whether you agree with it or not you could still make a position statement but I wouldn't waste any real energy in that well like I said and that's one honestly is is is Paul pointed out we could just say monitor it if it gets all of a sudden gets suddenly worse then we maybe a call to arms but as you said uh we already been told uh who where it's a priority yeah so I would pick certainly the retirement one and maybe one or two others we're less than three weeks away from the finish of this make your time important that's just my thoughts but I I I agree with opposing them all on paper Jake Johansson yes sir I'd like to clarify something here um the chaired mentioned that that he was willing to go up with John and and that he had written letters uh I I hope you did as your own person and not as the chairman um I'm I'm a little concerned now because uh we each have one vote here and we're voting on what to oppose and I'm hoping you didn't OS something on our behalf uh without our knowledge um can you please clarify that for me yeah yeah be glad to yeah I sent it uh under my name as chairman as opposed to it as any one of you others could have in fact I thought we were the very first meeting six months ago that we had about that about this uh uh um I2 zoning I think we instructed staff then to to um send letters so um I certainly did I didn't send it for the entire Council I sent it for me so yeah I I just and maybe I just need clarification being new to this part of it but um we we're each one vote and we're we're uh we're an elected body we're not a bunch of individuals so um I I don't know really if if I can send a letter as CH Johansson County council member at large to the governor vly opposing something uh legally can I Mike you can however I know one of the discussions you've had as a council is when a member does that you want to be clear that whe they're sending it on their own behalf not behalf of the body is what I hear you saying so that's that's as I understand our Charter when we're sitting here we're and that's been discussed uh by this body before and that you yes you could do it but you just make it clear that it's you as that individual all right all right I'm clear on that and and then what I'm hearing you say is that you want to if you know I think I to is sending a letter of opposition on I think it's a discussion you have as a body and decide what I'm hearing you say is that if somebody's sending a letter um you want to make sure it's clear in the letter they're not sending sending it on behalf of the body they're sending it on their own behalf yeah I guess that's it and and chairman you clarified that that's I was clear about that yeah all right all right I'm good um um and and so with with these items I I think I think there should be a way where we discuss or at least bring up uh maybe not it happens so quick John but but um early on that we as these bills come in and John sends us these things that that we have a section in the um in in the discussion section of of one or both of our Council meetings where we discuss legislative stuff not just today but every meeting as it starts getting pretty busy because a lot of these might mean a lot to um let's say um uh com from in Santiago you know we just we just talked about uh um the the um energy resources right and the Barry and Duke power have they're they're storing hydrogen right they have hydrogen oxygen solar beta prod or or they're they're they're developing it right now um we might have you might have a concern about that we might not elsewhere in the in the county so I I think it's important that we discuss that because what might be one person's issue might not be another person's issue and as Mr Kent says if it if if it's important to you it might be important to me so I want to I want to be able to discuss these things um sometimes it's a rapid rapid process and we're going to miss it but when we don't uh I think we ought to we ought to take a look at them and and comment on the ones that we think are important so we can um U band together and vote so the chairman can send one on our behalf up there and say we our Council thinks this is way wrong um and and go up there with John and fight the fight so um I think it's important that we all have uh we have Buy in on what we're opposing it sounds like we're there now but I think we ought to do this more often thank you chairman Danny Robinson thanks chair I'd like to see his guys kind of get uh I feel like we're in the fourth quarter almost third and the fourth you know to be opposing some of this stuff granted I'm opposed to it but it almost feels like we're just going through the motions on it just to say yeah we opposed it if we actually want to have a dog in the fight and if we're genuine about uh having these as real issues I would just encourage us to um band together and uh and unite when it comes to that um unfortunately you know once you become an elected official we can write all the letters we want or go to um board meetings or advisory meetings whatever um you can't just take that hat off and uh as Mr Johansson stated you know it's been a concern to M because it's happened multiple times in the past I personally at this point would like like uh if any one of us uh is going to send a letter to a higher up or leg legislation uh whoever that it be vetted by our um legal staff and then the council be provided to that before that thing is shipped off um because it just uh it it doesn't paint a good picture uh we we then truly look divided uh we don't look like we're on the same page and and and um let like cats going in all directions that's not not professional in my opinion so uh I concur with Mr Johansson I'd personally like to see any letter that we um would like to send because we all may have something to add and uh uh we're stronger together so that's my two cents okay well let's let's find out I I incorrectly assume that this Council was opposed to 1624 and 1628 um every I don't think I've been in a single staff meeting where we didn't talk about this that I know staff was extremely worried about it about losing our own ability to regulate uh zoning and land use um and I've encouraged them to um to oppose it I've opposed those two and and I've I've talked to all all of our Valia rep delegation about it um so let's just ask the question does does a council as a whole want to direct staff to um uh oppose 1624 and 1628 to the at least to the point where we're making it more pable for local government to do its job besides going to ribbon cuttings I'll chime in I think I said I was okay with opposing all of them on paper I I I'm at least me I think I see heads boobing I I'm not opposed either chairman but when when our staff sends something to somebody they send us a copy I'd like to see the copies that's all vly oppose show me what you're writing if you're writing something if John's going up there he's going to argue I can watch it on TV or go up there and watch it with him I I just want to be aware of what we're doing uh so uh anything that anything that goes to the state to the governor to the representatives or Senate on vucha County letterhead I I think ought to be readily accessible by the elected officials if it's been sent by an elected official um uh whe whether whether it's legal or not uh the assumption is when it gets up there that you're representing the government so um I I think it's important that we have it and and unless you don't want somebody to see something it should be easy uh you send it out you give it to George and Mike and they send it out saying this one out to uh a representative leak in the in the legislators today I I was going to chime in to Mr chair because I think my name was up there and then I came off but um it's it's it's along the same lines and it's along the lines of the question you asked um you know I would be okay with um you know seeing if we can adopt a policy when it comes to utilizing the county letterhead right um and I would be uh okay with being restricted to if I send if I want to send any letter to the C any government entity elected or not or fishal or any agency and utilize the county letterhead I would inform the council first hey I'm going to this is my position I'm sending with and get advice there otherwise I would say I'd send the letter in my own personal letter head I I think there I would be okay that I am a member of the uh you know Valia County Council this is my personal opinion but I'll tell you if I received the letter Mr chair regardless of the position if I receive the letter as a legislator that had a letterhead from the county and said it was I'll just use your title since which we're discussing yours this is from the county chair I would probably think that that's the position of the council I can see that that misinterpretation so if we want to be clear and hold everybody equal we have a policy that no letterhead is used unless is adopt or approved by the council to send a letter to another governing body agency otherwise you if it's your individual opinion send it in your own personal letterhead and that keeps that keeps it clean okay Council feels I I'll since you're asking me that question I'll respond to it I haven't sent letters on letterhead I I use my email I send them on email which is public information so I'll I'll do you one better for now on um I'll just make them public and then you will know and everybody else will know what I'm asking I if I have a a a legal topic um I call Mike or I'll call I call Mike and sometimes he'll assign me to somebody else but um um so I haven't I'm not sending anything on letterhead I'm sending on on the county ua.org um email and I'm not trying to I'm not trying to silence you Mr chair I think you have a voice and I I want to encourage everybody's voice it's just a matter of uh Clarity and messaging to ensure sure that whoever the recipient is understands that's all it's about we all have our own opinion so it's not about silencing I want make sure that's clear I'm not trying to do that okay okay George your name is still up did you just to say uh uh Mr Johansson uh we will uh be more frequent we did start in January and we we came up with a base of of items that we knew of at the time and one of of them was oppose uh any preemption action so we have uh on some of these bills because they are essentially preemption we have opposed them but as they get more specific you know that's where I I felt like it was important to uh update and and that's really what today was and like I say uh uh other than the 328 which we can monitor uh uh we could at least have it uh on the record that we oppose all the rest I'm I'm thank you very much George for the for the clarification and and I support that I think that's a good play was that it Jake Vice chair Kent thank you I'll just briefly weigh in on this I I have spoken as a county councilman in front of the or Beach City commission and in front of the Hill City commission they're both municipalities in my district and Council I want you to know both times pull the tapes when I get up and speak I give my name and my address and I then say my comments are coming as Troy Kent resident of fuchia County or Orman Beach um I would never try to speak on any of your behalfs ever and I would never send a letter with my name on the letter and I got to tell you you know you you don't none of you know this we have the Sunshine Law we don't talk about this it came to an uncomfortable conversation between staff and myself to get me letterhead with my name on it it was like this push back I had because of a problem that had happened earlier and I said I don't care about what someone else did I feel like you're treating me like a child I am in this seat I have earned this seat and this title I want my letterhead and I promise to give you a copy of whatever I send even if it says thank you to whoever I'll give you a but I want it and there was this push back from staff not to get it because of a situation so I just want you gentlemen to know I will never send a letter to a government body with a position statement on my own ever I will always come to you beforehand and if I can't get to you before a meeting then I will reach out to George and see what we can do about and Mike about having a special meeting so that we can agree on something that's that's just me and I'm going to tell you if if the mayor of Warman beach with my time on the city commission had ever done something like that insinuating the city of commission of Orman agreed with something without us talking about it I would have it would have been uncomfortable moment I wouldn't have I wouldn't have liked that like that doesn't feel good I wouldn't do that to you because I don't want you to do it to me if that makes sense it just that's not a Feelgood moment um but there's nothing wrong with what you said I think on your own with your own letterhead or whatever uh not not letterhead your own personal stationary saying hey you know this is this is how I feel but I also don't feel like the seven of us would be far off on many issues so if we need to come back to this elected body and get approval then let's do that let's let's you know we're we're planners all of us you know when we can plan in advance and give staff that information and have it come from the chairman or better yet have all of our signatures on it I think that's even more impactful to the guy sitting at my right who served eight years in the state legislature I think that's what you were looking for probably was letters from municipalities with all signatures from all elected members because that's a statement right thanks okay John I I think that's it I do need a vote so uh if we're all good with uh supporting uh opposing everything but 328 which will monitor uh if I could have that that' be a so moved second Johanson for motion by Santiago second by Jake Johansson to oppose all of the uh laws that you have or all of the legislation that you just mentioned the preemption legislation all in favor say I I any opposed and just to to wrap it up for my behalf I'll just I'll assure every one of you that I do not I have never spoken for you on your behalf um I okay okay item eight item eight is appointments to the tourist Development Council you have one applicant who just so happens to be an incumbent move to approve second yep who are we approving costaa okay all in favor say I I any opposed Q is seconded I have the motion of being Mr Santiago and who is the second and item nine where did it go item nine appointments to the volunteer firefighter retirement Advisory Board there is one application who has also been recom mened by the chief which is a requirement for this and her name is Mary Yokum move to approve Mary Yokum second we have a motion by Jake Johansson to approve Mary Yokum second by Santiago um and um I have a just have a question for staff on on this um do we still have any volunteer firefighters so I would have to ask the chief uh we were down to just a handful um so uh we do get them occasionally because what uh they like to volunteer and work with us uh in hopes of getting on as a full-time fireman so that's really how they're used now we don't have I don't I don't believe anybody or but I'll check that just you know stays permanently in that position so they don't usually become eligible uh for this pension because they don't do it long enough they become an actual fireman so uh however there are people out there collecting that pension so that's why you you we still have to keep the fund any idea how many I can get that information but it is something that eventually we may have to deal with uh of dissolving it and that has been done in other other areas so yeah that's what I would like to know how many I don't want to short any of them they served they should get their retirement right and we are we're bound and would always be bound to to make sure that but what uh what has happened of course and this again this is not a unique to vucha County um a lot of communities have had to deal with this as they've converted to professional uh um staff so we'll get I'll get that back to you um and uh we can have a little report on that I would just I'd be curious to know my memory my recollection is it's a pretty hefty uh fund balance isn't it oh yeah for a very few people yeah several million dollars yeah for maybe a half dozen people or something so I rily very very sound too sound yeah I think the council should should be aware of that but the motion is for uh Mary Yokum uh motion made by Jake Johansson second by Santiago was that right or was it reversed it's correct okay all in favor say I I any opposed and the appointment Mr Dempsey is out of the room so he's here 7 to0 it's 7 to zero he was listening okay brings us to uh um final comments uh County Manager yes sir uh I didn't know if you had any public comment yeah we do have one uh if we want to do that uh John Nicholson johnon beat side a couple of things one um I notic the other day that um they're building a hotel across from Belair Plaza it is a paved lot for the last 40 years empty and I was wondering why didn't we lease it from the company and then allow parking the city has like 12 uh Lots vacant now uh we tore down 17 hotels and in the last 20 years we've replaced only one so there's plenty of vacant land it is just now being developed but there's still like 12 properties we could lease put in gravel call it a day but it's good for the city of Daytona Beach because people come in and they hit the shops that are close by it it has volume to the city so it's advantageous to the county because the city is a uh uh Financial hub for the county it produces a great deal of money and this is a way of increasing that money um secondly we had Navy week this past week uh went to the event didn't even know about it um I found out two hours before the event there may be what 100 people there there's only one city in the entire state that got Navy week and it was Daytona Beach and nobody knew about it so when things like this happened it's to our advantage to let everybody know uh and lastly with regard to um the Motocross you know you could have that going in a year all right you have equipment at the dump that moves dirt all this is is dirt so sell the trees to chop them out we have the excavation to level it move the dirt just as a basic track and the kids can use it and then at that point we go through we get the echo funding 2 and a half million for a super Grant half a million from racing in wreck all right we go into the County's funds because it's a Leisure service activity all right then we go to the track you do this day in and day out what can we do all right you have the ability to advertise you have the ability for Staffing all of these things and lastly the RVs yes they're going to be used while the events are there but we have nine major events that need need that area they need places for people to park RVs the track had it but they sold it to Amazon so now their RV parking is gone this would be perfect for them for RV parking Mo to raise funds for the event itself and for the track thank you George reor Wald yes sir uh first item uh actually is an answer to earlier question from Mr Mr Nicholson uh the Veterans Park at the base of the Orange Avenue Bridge uh the bids have come in on that they're being evaluated now and it's expected that uh the construction uh contract will come to you on the March 19th meeting so it's on track uh just one thing as long as we're in the topic of letters uh if you call and it was uh back I believe in November get the date here uh yeah at the 11:21 meeting uh Ade uh gave us authorization to uh authorize for uh application to the Noah resilience Regional challenge uh um Grant the grant can be used for infrastructure there's over $575 million available uh uh we have prepared that Grant uh we be looking at it allows us to buy uh properties as well it allows for infrastructure and seagrass U restoration and if you recall this is the one also to help us set up the nursery at the um jail and grow uh um um wild wild plants uh that we would use for uh Coastal protection and other protection uh so there's several uh areas of the grant we prepared it and I'm just notifying I'm going to write a letter uh because you have given me that authorization I will write and have a letter that'll go to the federal de delegation members so and I'll give the date that uh uh you all approved it and uh just want to let you guys you yep and it's going to ask for their support obviously for that Grant so uh that uh is all I have at this hour thank you very much Michael Dyer nothing at this time thank you uh Matt Reinhardt thank you chair um George thank you very much for that I know that was they looking about summertime on that that we would hear something back yeah with respect to the Noah Grant so we did have the opportunity to go out there and we would put that and um we have the property the wreck yard that we don't even utilize anymore so we have the space for it which is good so thank you for that um you answered the other question because I want to answer John's question with respect to the Veterans Park so we have that now um I'll talk to you offline um there was the other question you posed about the traffic issue at Peninsula that concerns me as well so I'll talk to you offline about that um lastly uh I'll keep it short um we had talked about our uh proclamations and how we will discuss those here as a body before we approve that which I I like that idea thank you Mr Joe hansome for for uh spear hitting that um and it is a good idea because we all need to be made aware and of the individuals that were doing that for but that policy thank you Mike for finding that out that policy that we have with respect to that also addresses the fact that any single uh council person can uh do a letter of recognition or certificate of of recognition for an individual or a body there uh that being said um today's the 20th on February 22nd uh is uh incilius day and the reason why it was brought up to me is we had a City Commissioner um who had to resign from her seat uh due to health issues I'm not putting anything out there about her health that she hasn't already put out there publicly just so we know um so therefore she has uh approached City governments and many of the city governments have designated by proclamation for those days to be identifi or that day on the 22nd to be identified as intis day um we could still do that from my understanding however it would have to be backdated to that date that we can discuss maybe at a future date to approve that or we start this point forward because she will start that work in uh April starting for next year so that's something to to consider uh that being said I wanted to take the opportunity I thank you Mike for doing this and preparing that for me she is not here due to the late hour of the meeting and she knew that but I had a certificate of appreciation for cat Atwood uh in grateful recognition of her ongoing efforts to raise awareness about analitis and her support for the world intis awareness day but it was dated this day February 20th this certificate but in recognition for what she's trying to to accomplish she's trying to bring a lot of awareness to this um if you ever want to do some research on it it's a it's a a disease that you know loss of memory loss of uh your body uh to what you're able to and capable of doing so um like I said we we uh she's still very active in her community and I commend her for that and for their that why also when I wanted to do this because she remains active and she remains at that advocate for this and many other uh things within our community so uh Kat if you're listening my hats off to you and thank you for a job well done and that's all I have thank you Danny Robbins thank you chair uh a couple quick things I'll try to make as quick as possible um today during the meeting I just want to talk briefly about the Quorum um it just seems to be getting uh to be a pattern we're getting interrupted more and more uh whether it be in the uh from the audience or people speaking too long or interrupting each other um I think it's highly unprofessional uh we all get our time up here if we have opposing views we use our time we don't get into U uh a back and forth spat uh with each other it just doesn't look good it it looks like two fools arguing um that's not the image that we need for our uh uh to to be seen in in by the public I would just encourage everybody to use Robert's Rules the best we can and and Mr Dyer too I'm I'm and I won't speak on behalf of the council but I'm also relying on you if as the parliamentarian uh or kind of overseer of of this if it starts going south um we look to you for a little bit Direction I'm not not going to put it on you like like that but um when there's times where uh that starts happening I just want you to be prepared for it and and we could surely use your help uh just so we don't um make ourselves look bad and just to that if if there ever is an incident that any of you uh think there's too much noise in a room or believe somebody's being disruptive well you would and feel it's not being addressed you can make a point of privilege any you the chair then decides that if you're unhappy with the resolution you can appeal that but the point of privilege would be if you feel like you want want to that that would be the me vehicle for you to use to bring attention to it thank you Mike and and then to council I think we absolutely uh to David's Point need to make a policy about sending letters letters have been sent um as far as I know uh somewhere around October 5th just going for my notes uh letters to the governor and Secretary of Commerce um stating uh whether it be city of Orman Beach staff entire vucha delegation all members of valuch County Council County staff and then signed uh the email signed by um a member of council once again we need to be careful about that that because we we could hop on board with with with that member and create more strength and numbers uh for these situations but but we really can't say that we're not doing it and and be doing it once again it's it's not professional and and I think if we unite in that way we start playing for the team on the front and and not the name on the back and I think that's the direction we need to go thank you David Santiago thank you Sher you know and I forgot about that uh Danny thanks for for reminding me and because I think that particular letter which said all seven members of the County Council were opposed to this and I've never out of my mouth has come in come out and said that I was opposed to that I purposely was very careful in my comments to not opine in it in favor or against it so that letter that's out there should be corrected um or taken down because I did get a copy of it from someone on social media cuz it's inaccurate and again I'm not trying to take anybody's right to speak but that's what happens when you get into these areas it gets dangerous and if you make mistakes you get called out on it um and that was one particular mistake and I I don't appreciate being words being put in my mouth because I've never said that you can go back to the record um I think Council I I I did not attend you you probably know I didn't attend the state of the county yeah in case you didn't see me there uh I had a prior engagement however I did watch the video staff did a great job in producing the video I still don't believe Danny caught that fish for real and to this date I think Matt is the only guy that's ever been on the beach with a suit I still I'll still say that it would yeah however in watching the video and its totality there was only hate to go negative but I want to make sure we're clear I want to see what the council says um I think uh I think you may have said it there today and it sparked my thoughts so thank you for your comments I think you mentioned something about the driving on the beach and I remember seeing that from the video uh that a member of the body spoke about that that was never a position of this Council so I'm I'm concerned that if we're going to make speeches or we're going to allow speeches it gets into areas like that cuz there were a couple other things that people commented to me hey I didn't know the county was going to be focused on this or that um and so I want the body to discuss you know I love the videos I think we all get our opportunities to talk about things that we've worked on because that's what it is the state of the county the things that we've done and collectively the vision that we're going to be working towards for the following year um so I I I don't like if the structure is going to allow for speeches that don't necessarily reflect on what this body has worked on or is focusing on that concerns me because that's why I got the questions he obviously thought we were thinking about doing something on the beaches and changing the driving patterns I've never talked about that since I've been here in in that context so I don't know if this body wants to put wheels or barriers around or change the structure of the state of County I'd be open to that discussion right how do we present that so it it it serves its true purpose um so I I'd like to just put it out there in the table to see what you all think I Michael Dyer is coming in but I'd like to see my colleagues think or am I by myself on this Michael Dyer so the uh requirement in the charter I know we've talked a little bit about it in the past but it's been a while um it's section 307 point2 of the charter uh it's titled annual report um it's short and it reads that the county chair shall report annually to the county Council and residents the activities of County government for the previous year in the STA of accomplishment of existing goals and objectives the report shall set forth new and revised goals and objectives for future action subsequently the County Council uh shall me to consider adoption of a plan of action for implementation of the goals and objectives so I think there's a mechanism for Council as a whole to uh take action that's maybe different than what you hear in that report I think another thing you've done is you also have engaged in your own rule um not rule making goal setting and establish goals I think that's part of that um but I think council at any time can take action as a body to discuss what your goals are um and what you agree on as a body um yeah and and I'll just have my my comments I kept them strictly to what we have already done and in particular you know what we continue to go forward with business you know uh uh friendly policies I stood very much at 30,000 foot this is what we did and 30,000 foot as far as you know what we're going to be focused on on going forward if I known that we were going to have free reign to talk about stuff maybe I would have talked about some of my personal priorities but I didn't so we I need to know what we are going to do so that we level the playing field if that's the case or we just say this is the the the the road map that we're going to use Jake Johansson sir thank you uh regarding this subject uh uh I wrote some comments for my section but I'll bring them up now um uh last year I was concerned that our message was not reviewed to ensure it's a joint message and I mentioned that as a matter of fact I harped on George saying look if if that's the way it's going to be don't give me a script I'll say what I want to say and I got a script and I said what what we wanted to say um we are not the federal government this is not the president State of the Union we don't have a chief executive elected official and therefore I think it's extremely important that we review uh an approved template of what we as a body will touch on to ensure our priorities are in line with our thoughts as a council uh I asked for the the uh comments last year I asked for the comments this year um uh I don't want surprises when I'm sitting next to people who are asking questions and I'm like I have no clue what that's about so uh uh just like the letters that that should be read by us before they go to higher authority I think we all ought to be able to see what we're saying before we say it to the public and and we all agree on it uh so I I will ask next year that nothing goes unscripted everything's preapproved and that we sit enjoy each other's company and watch the state of the county and and that it that it not be um if if it's going going to be that then then I'll go race my car somewhere I'll go with you Danny cuz or David cuz I I don't want to sit and be surprised so that's uh that's my two sets on that thank you that is a motion sure okay motion to pre-approve the state of the county in its entirety before it is uh presented take Johansson makes a motion that if I understand it correctly every video and every speech is preapproved by the entire Council that is correct and second is by Danny Robins is there a discussion I'll offer a discussion from probably the sixth week that I took office in 2020 I was told by County staff that this is your state of the county address um gave me free reign pick out the menu um I was told repeatedly that nobody has ever said anything different Michael Dyer just read to you what is written that it's to look back at what we did and then to look ahead at goals I listed and I said at the state of the county these are some goals I'm going to work on and bring before the council and I will there are things that I will bring before the council and we can debate them then um Michael Dyer George rewall E either one of you is that outside of the bounds of what the what you just read that it's for looking back and looking ahead at goals so the the charter provision requires an annual report um it's been done numerous ways over the years I understand sometimes in this C chamber uh you know lately it in the event that like we had at the Ocean Center uh at the Delona Community Center um it provides Authority for the chair to give a report of activities for that for that prior year and uh set forth new and revised goals but then it provides that the council is to meet to consider adopt consider those goals uh and consider adoption of a plan of action for implementation of goals and objectives so what I take from that language as Council can then decide add to those goals change those goals reject those goals they decided as a as a body um the charter provision is not specific about how that report is given you know I think it could be could be in writing could be during a meeting or it could be in an event like you just have had okay I I would say it has evolved uh of course at one time the chair was uh elected amongst the body um I I have to say my memory fails me a little bit in the beginning of my career and probably because I was rather than at the estate of the county I was probably on a construction site um so probably uh in those early days I think it was delivered more at a council meeting at at that point somewhere along the line uh probably I don't think I exactly coincided but when Frank Bruno uh became the first elected chair uh I think he took it to a little bit higher level to where where uh you know we went to the Ocean Center and gave uh the kind of report that we have today and I think he went out and started uh you know selling sponsorship so to speak uh for the for that and and and took on a bigger a bigger role um I think Jason Davis uh brought he went back more to I think he delivered it here in the chambers um and then uh we went back to uh a larger event so that's kind of the uh Evolution as I recall it and like I said unfortunately I wasn't part of the earlier ones um so I couldn't tell you how it got to exactly uh where it is but I think we got back on track uh thanks to Mr Kent uh who was pretty adamant about let's have the goal setting before we do uh that and we did that we had two we had the one because as we um kind of came together as a group and I thought that was very productive and then you more or less reaffirmed those goals in that last uh setting we had in January so everything was set and I think the goals were in the uh program I'm correct so we had them so I think everything was set right for exactly what uh uh we're talking about so um and again uh uh I apologize I guess I as far as um it's never been something that we you know put out to everybody uh ahead of time and in fact be because our staff works pretty feverishly on the entire event uh like a several things around here it's often not complete the message isn't even complete compl until a day or two uh beforehand so uh we can work in the future to have it done uh more ahead of time I do believe we got everybody's video and everyone saw that ahead of time so we almost got uh all all of it ahead but uh we'll continue to work on uh getting it getting it a little bit tighter okay I'll I'll just add this to um to that we had five goals I've referenced those five goals twice pointed them out in the in the book and I guess none of the staff remembers from when I first got elected every year we've done this I would be told by staff that this is your state of the union and or state of the county ume that has been said I totally agree with that statement because that is actually how it evolved it really was uh like I say Mr Bruno took it and uh made more of it than an annual report so that's you're he is you're absolutely accurate on but what I've tried to do is in fact this year I talked to Michael about the goals of the other Council people so I didn't spend time um repeating everything that the public had just watched in in a video um and then um I'd talk about those but every year I have also told the public and the council at the state of the county um any personal goals that I had that I would put bring before the council um uh didn't know there was anything wrong with that still don't think anything's wrong with that if um and I I would not be opposed to anybody else saying when they do their District um next year I plan to work on XY I would love to know what it is like uh Troy Kenton has said before if it's important to you it's important to me so and I'll still bring those to the to the council so uh Danny Robbins thanks chair uh how do I be diplomatic by by deflecting this a little bit Council and and what kind of irks me now is that we're we're taking County staff and ultimately really asking them uh to pick sides between seven bosses here that's that's not how this works no uh and I'm talking chair thank you um I I would urge us as a body not to put uh them in that position or in that spot and for us to take responsibility or personal responsibility if there's a disagreement on this and not uh bring in the people that are supposed to execute our policy that's not uh that's not right um it's evolved I agree with that um but it's also in my opinion taken on a life of its own and and it's getting a little out of hand um in my opinion um I think I think we're out of bounds on a couple things and I'd be remissed if I didn't say anything I just want us to be a little bit more professional and and organized and uh United take your hands thank you sir um I I'm I'm kind of in the understanding that that it's the Chairman's show um but I I go back to what we talked about with the letter um if we are wearing the uniform of Council in other words we're in a state of a county address we are we are acting as our jobs up here and an event then then we we represent Council not ourselves at at no time are we ourselves when we're together the the state of the county might be an opportunity for it to be the the Chairman's show or the Chairman's deal but I think it's important that that the message is as our chairman as a representative of us not of you it's not a lead follow relationship we're not a strong mayor a strong chairman we are you you you are just another one of us that that does some ceremonial things and and sets the agenda and does some other things but but to to say that we all ought to be able to do that then we'll all take 20 minutes and 20 minutes times seven people is a long time um uh so I I think that it's just important that uh I don't want to put words in your mouth I don't want to uh uh happy to Glad any speech you have but here are the five goals here's what we think y yep is that good yep go ahead can you put in your own words when we tell George to send a letter he sends a letter we don't we don't edit it for for Content um I trust that that if we give a template for what the Chairman's going to say that the chairman is not going to deviate from that template uh I'm not saying what you said was something I do believe or didn't believe I didn't know what you were going to say people were asking me why is he talking about the Constitution I don't don't know really I I don't know um uh was that something you all talked about the Admiral was asking me I'm like um no it wasn't and he kind of looked at me because it's just not the way we did it in the military I I got that but so I just would like a little more situational Awareness on what's going to be said and that's why I made the motion uh we have to approve it maybe not verbatim but in theory in a template and then we ask that the chairman not deviate that's all and that's all I have thank you Joy Kent thank you chairman Council I wasn't going to even talk about this item tonight I wasn't but I'm going to start with the positives Mr Ryan your team did a great job video production group The it group they really did a great job I knew of course what mine might look like a little bit it was freezing cold that day on the beach so I didn't know really how it was going to look but I was extremely excited about seeing my fellow council members and seeing their video piece and I actually believe that Danny caught that fish only because I've I've I've seen pictures of like coolers full of like um you know bluegill and stuff like that so I know he knows how to fish you know I don't know if he caught it days in advance and had it on a line just waiting I don't I don't know about that but in all seriousness the positive was it was a much better in my opinion production because we were each somewhere in our district and Mr Johansson and Mr Brower were somewhere in the county and and I thought that it added a nice touch to to the state of the county so for that I thought that you all did a great a really a great job and the information you shared about your districts was informational and I I appreciated it and you know for this for this next piece take my words don't take my words whatever but we are a group of seven and you know like it or not we have we have a chairman that's how our Charter is and our chairman gives the state of the county and you know as much of me doesn't ever want to put a muszle I'm not going to say you know Jeff Brower I'm GNA say chairman because whoever that person is I don't want them to feel like they have a a muzzle on them so this is the part that chairman you either take or don't take it's okay but if it were me and it's not run for chairman but if it was me I would talk about everything we accomplished the the the highlights I would talk about those things and then I would talk about the goals that this council is that we are trying to accomplish this next coming year and that could have been a 4-3 vote doesn't have to be 70 but if this Council agreed on it four of us at least then it's a goal we've given George and Mike the orders and that's what it is and that's what I would stick with only because it becomes problematic in the sense that we're sitting here and talking about this at 11:09 p.m. because it's the state of the county address it's not the state of the chairman address it's not the state of District 4 address it's not the state of Deltona address you know it's it's the state of the county and I think that we will not have these issues or these uncomfortable situations Mr Johansson where people are asking you questions like hey I didn't know that was what the council agreed upon when it's one person's goals I think if if we stick to this is what we accomplished this year and it was a very productive year for the County Council and this is what your County Council has agreed upon for next year and you do that and you stick with that I don't I mean how could anybody have a problem with that if you have a problem with that then you're just trying to muzzle somebody and now I have a problem with that so take it or leave it thanks thank you um I'll go back to what was read about it and I think what I just heard almost everybody say the purpose of the state of the county is to talk about accomplishments and goals so I talked about accomplishments really the whole theme it evidently didn't work but the whole theme of the state of the county um worked on with Michael Ryan who was serious about making it a unifying message and we thought we did that the way that we did videos and he wo me in and out of the videos to connect everybody together um my appeal was was for Unity I asked everybody to come up on the stage afterwards but yeah I gave um my goals for the next year as well um I've said that three times that I would bring to the council and um U you know obviously you disagree with the fact that I gave goals for the next year I I my goals for the next year um so this is a debate on a motion by Jake Johansson second uh by Danny Robbins to I don't even remember what the motion was to um to review the all all all comments to make sure we're on the same page uh including the Chairman's uh comments prior to the state of the county address so that you can edit them no sir so we can agree to them what if you don't agree with them then then they won't be said I can't have a personal goal not during the state of the county really correct you can have a personal goal just you can't represent us as the chairman State the county I express my personal goal to the public and the entire Council was very for right this is what these are some things that I'm going to bring forth to the council that's what I did you I think I think my motion limits your ability to State your personal goals the state of the county that's I wanted to make that clear all right I don't see anybody else that wants to uh comment on it um uh Carissa call the role Please Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey yes Mr Johansson yes Mr Kint yes Mr Brower no okay it passes uh 6 to uh one okay we were at uh where were we Mr Robbins you completed yours David Santiago I completed mine Don Dempsey I have nothing to talk about unless Jake you want to talk about Motocross some more offline okay then I have nothing good night thanks thanks for all your patience tonight listening to this presentation that we had though have a good night Jake Johansson thank you sir um I'm I'm not quite sure how totic articulate our strategy moving forward with the uh with the fuel terminal fuel farm to our concerned citizen uh the the way I saw it there was a few ways to tackle the issue um uh with with the fuel terminal and and one of the ways was the mor moratorium and and the lawsuit and the fight to fight the other way was to accept the site plan review it and address the issues and and find out whether it's possible to be built given the constru RS of of te EPA uh fire safety without without water and sewer from Orman can they meet the firefighting all that stuff not to mention the airport overlay traffic and and other issues so the way we chose to do it is the site plan process um and and we're proceeding there as I understand it a conceptual was in and details to follow so uh we'll see how clay irvan and his group uh go through so so we haven't said yes we haven't said no we've said we're ready to accept your site plan and see what can be done um we talked a little bit about the state of the county and there's there's one thing and and this is something I would have pointed out and I will next year um I'd like our citizens particularly to know that I personally support the work that our staff does led by George Reon Wald and Mike Mike Dyer um I was very concerned when they didn't get mentioned and I'd like to mention it publicly now thank you very much gentlemen Suzanne ladies uh for everything that you all did this year the uh um as as we mentioned in the state of the county it was a tremendous year given all the other obstacles out there and we got a lot done and and we're we're ready to get a lot more done now that we have this list of goals um and and you know I strongly encourage that our goals are posted at the top of every item so we know what goal it goes to which you do uh uh usually so um uh thank you very much to to the staff for all the hard work um uh you know obviously I didn't appreciate the people bringing the fire George Reon Walt signs into the uh uh state of the county address so Michael Ryan can we U make sure that that uh once they come in the door it's it's our venue and and our rules uh I I think that needs to be a neutral environment um as far as decorum um I'm very sensitive of people's time time in general um here it is 11:17 so I'm I'm going to I'm going to give myself a little bit of time this is a business meeting and and by and large I'm a business person um and and there are a few things that that we talked about uh um Mr Kent Mr Santiago and a few others of us to make sure that we properly valued everybody's time and that was our bites at the Apple at 5 minutes each or or whatever it was or or time for questioning um and and I would like to take a round turn on that and and be be very conscious of what we're doing um also uh there's a lot of people out there that waited a long time to speak their times just as valuable as ours so if a meeting starts at 0900 it doesn't start at at 9:03 it starts at 9:00 it's very important that we're all in here seated at the start and whatever the chairman brings us back from lunch or dinner be ready to do business because if we start Lolly gagging they're going to start LLY gagging at 801 we'll start to 803 it'll start to 805 and next thing you know we'll be LLY gagging for 15 minutes and that's disrespectful um and last we talked about it already I'm going to talk about it again it's important that we respect each other at no time should any member assume Mr Santiago brought this up and speak on behalf of the other or lead the audience to believe one or some of us think one way or another when we sit here we're a governing body we act as one and we should not be at each other we should give each other the respect for our five minutes uh as painful as it is sometimes and when you're done you should give up the mic and um allow somebody else to speak but at no time should should we probably be bantering back and forth there's no place for that here thank you Vice chair Kent thank you chairman so to pick up where councilman Johansson left off you know we I think have made huge strides in streamlining our meetings and one of the most important things we did was we really limited our time to talk when we did that you know I said you know from our our legal department what are we allowed to do with the presentations because all of you met with one of the applicants today except for me my decision I think if my memory is right on that but um meaning you all had that opportunity for them to give you that information and and we had the information in our agendas yeah we we limit ourselves to five minutes for debate but that person started talking at 5:30 p.m. and didn't end until 5:57 then again started at 6:21 and ended at 6:31 but then there were questions and really didn't quit talking until 6:50 so when you start adding all of that time up you know we say well you know can we limit well I watch them do it in Congress all the time when people are presenting information or testifying they have a time limit where they're going to present their case and I I think that's something we should talk about Council so I'm I'm going to make a motion that at a uh in the next three meetings when George has opportunity or Michael has opportunity to put it on the agenda that they put that on the agenda so we talk about it and we make a a a finite definite decision and then whoever's the applicant is they'll know this is how much time they have and I think we can give them a reasonable amount I'll second that thank you sir and that's for a discussion for us to discuss that so chairman there's a motion in a second to have that on one of the next three agendas that way it doesn't pigeon hole um staff into like the next meeting okay you're talking about what happened today yes but it's something that I talked about 10 months ago whenever we when we limited ourselves I said we should be talking about limiting the applicant when they're coming before us you know we we've had and we we did it to our own staff because we had we had staff come before us and talk up to over like 70 minutes one time on a presentation that we receive you know I mean we're good students we do our homework we read this stuff ahead of time you know I send my questions into George and and Michael before every meeting I mean it's no surprise I mean it's public record I've had I've had the news journal ask me hey can you send me your questions I can do a public records request but can you send me your questions sure here they are you know you got them so meaning that that homework is done I'm just trying to help streamline us Council even more that's all I understand we had we had two items one was a quasa Judicial uh hearing um with u Mark Watts so I would ask the uh I would ask counsel um legal counsel uh if the if the council decides to limit their the time time that they can speak is there any issue with that legally um we can bring something back for you to discuss that I I think you can generally put time limits on applicants presentations in a quasi judicial item you just might need to you'll need to have an opportunity to extend it for due process reasons if if a certain item warranted it but we can bring back some options and how to deal with that if you wish and this isn't about stifling anybody it's about out you presented it we have it we've read it you met with six out of the seven I mean they disclose that so why are you repeating I'm assuming what you told them privately like I don't get that yeah okay Danny Robbins councilman Kent I know where I saw some areas of improvement uh on us uh to I think we in a couple instances we got off we started uh doing our debate during questioning and that's something we can tighten up here but Troy how do you feel about limiting our questions um that you know so we have two five minute um times to to talk during debate can we limit to two questions kind of same format on the question end if we missed anything in our pre meetings that to help bring it back down I'm I'm not crazy about it and I'll tell you why because there are things that you all say that makes me think of another question and I I need to jump on like my questions I know with my questioning I went into debate I'm not blaming Don Dempsey but Don kept interrupting me and wanted to show this video you know let's see this video let see see video the video you wanted to show of the campsites oh I'm sorry no it's okay it's okay and it was a great video of like 80,000 ft high and you know I'm joking about that it might have been 990,000 ft but but yeah blurry but anyway I'm not crazy about that idea because I think that that that changes it I I think it would it will help streamline us and the applicant if the staff brings back some options for us and and we discuss it we don't do it now that we do it when staff has some information for us and then we can we can each have two five minute bites at it and and and I say that kind of in in in their defense as well any applicant because sometimes and I I try to say this nicely and I I started hitting on it um especially you know um comparing one agenda item to the other when it comes to storm water when it comes to traffic uh scenarios change depending on the agenda of uh the person uh or or the council members and and it I would like to give the applicant um that time to do a thorough presentation uh to hit on uh because they all know what we're into and and what we like what we like to hear the tickle words and all this stuff um so I wouldn't want to cut them short when they're trying to obviously sell their prod they're shark tanking it to us and we have to aot them time um to to cut them short uh to not explain it I I think we need to let this marinate a little bit I think we can maybe find it but but I think there's also a necessity for what uh for for what they do to explain it thoroughly uh and and dispel any alarms that we may have yeah and I and I appreciate that except that I voted to sure to not allow myself more than 10 minutes I I I learned from you whenever your one of your ideas you wanted how you got down and like presented because here I am literally timing myself at my house before I come to you all talking about getting our locals on the beach at no exra charge like I'm literally timing myself because I don't want to disappoint you all and I want to get my point across in the amount of time and you know like tonight well there was 27 minutes at the beginning there was another 10 minutes and then another 20 minutes how much time do you need when you met with everybody and it's in our staff room report and we have it and if that's the case then I want to go back and talk about unlimiting myself because I'm on a time clock and we've put staff on a Time clock and we've we've opened the book wide open for any applicant and I think that they can tell us anything and everything if I can if I can get my point across in in 10 minutes then I you know I don't know why they can I I'll agree with you as long as we can give them a way out in terms of hey if if we need more time because you know exception of policy sure I think we we can do that as needed I think the motion in place is to discuss it in three weeks guys that's exactly well discuss it in three weeks within well within three meetings not three weeks oh three meetings sorry now and the next three meetings one of those three meetings amen motion was made by Troy K who made the second Santiago Santiago all in favor say I I any opposed I but the motion carries six to one thank you and you know just a couple more items I have for you all this evening and and that is if you have not been down to our dog friendly section of the beach in valuchi County I highly recommend you do it has proven to be wildly popular and extremely successful Daytona dog beach is down there sometimes up to a 10 10 hours a day with different people between six and eight volunteers sometimes 10 volunteers a day patrolling the beach um giving people bags making sure the the beach is clean and for the most part they're picking up debris on the beach so um I'm super pleased with where it is uh so far and I'm sure staff at some point is going to share some numbers with this Council on on what they have thus far can I take bad boy dadley cuz my dogs just don't like other dogs you can you can take him but believe it or not he wants to be held the entire time he's scared to death of the ocean but Miss Daisy she'd let you take her um councilman Reinhardt so I just want to let you know about that and we mentioned pickle ball earlier there are three pickle ball courts that this County put in at Michael crate B Centennial Park and they are utilized and used and you know you you go there and it's interesting to me because I didn't see the tennis courts completely full but those three pickle ball courts are full and people are using them and that's great and my last thing I have for you all is um council members I met with uh the day after the state of the county I met with um Ocean Center Director Lyn Flanders and what a breath of fresh air she is and she's knowledgeable and she has a real plan because she went back and listened to the meeting where we as a collective group said we want to make positive changes in the Ocean Center and Daytona Beach and the rest of valua County we want events there that we with our families want to attend and she has taken that to heart and she has turned her staff loose on trying to make that goal a real positive reality and George thank you for setting that meeting up with Miss Flanders and my myself and um you know I I've I asked her you know when she when she interviewed because she's got a great story about that whole process and her daughter and where they live and it was actually Suzanne I think in that initial interview and Suzanne said you need to come meet Mr recton Wald and uh and have another another interview with us so Suzanne great great find thus far have a have a wonderful evening you forgot to put the five minute clock on him by the way okay I won't need a a five minute clock I'll have a whole page of notes I'm going to I'm going to end with two things um the first one I think is really important it was asked you know why in the world where you talking about the Constitution at at the state of the county frankly I find that question shocking and appealing appalling the Constitution every one of us swore to an oath to the Constitution to follow it and if you say that we didn't do that in the military that's Troublesome to me um if there's anybody that should be talking about the Constitution it's the military but we took an oath to it here it's our guiding principle and everything that we do should be guided by um the US Constitution even at local government and the State of Florida Constitution it's important and if we if we don't see it as any importance at all to talk about it um that's that's a problem for me the only other thing that I would say it was it was said in several different ways that we should not have any more bickering back and forth boy I agree with that I have sat here for um for 3 years and sometimes there'll be there's personal attacks directed at me and I I believe that as chair I don't want this Council to um to become a circus and to have us all fighting back and forth so I've I hardly ever say anything to the point where a a local motell here um met with me and he said why do you do that you need to turn around and just shove it right right down and I said I'm sorry I don't agree with that I don't think that's the purpose of of the chair um I want there to be decorum um tonight when David Santiago said that I was purposely trying to put you uh the council in a bad position I've I defended um myself and and and spoke out against that statement because that is not what I did it wasn't even a personal opinion it was a statement of fact that there is flooding all over this County and that we needed to deal with it and so and then when when you look at the public and say see that's what we deal with that to me is a deorum problem that's that's something that shouldn't have been done the public came tonight and dressed us down for the way that we talk to them and I don't like I would rather that you do it to me than to them but it shouldn't be done to either one if we have to if we're if we if we're going to have decorum and I hope we are we need to um I said that at the state of the county got a message from a a constituent that said the public deserves better and I hope you can work together that was my message it's a it failed it's a flat zero so we'll deal with it from here it's all that Jake Johansson did you have something else yes sir um you know back to what Mr Santiago said and you know I hate to do this but I never did I say in the military we don't talk about the Constitution that is not what I said and and so back to that don't put words in our mouth just don't say anything it it that is not what I said so what I'm saying is nowhere in our goals for the future that we discussed ever were the Constitution you chose to speak about that the fact that you chose to speak about it was something that I could not explain has nothing to do with me speaking about the Constitution when I was in the military um uh so I I know I know you got beat up pretty hard on this thing uh all we're asking is that we know what you're going to say so there are no surprises that's all and and I I think I would appreciate that and go oh sorry might have got out a little ahead of myself here um but but I I think you're I think you're taking a little personal and may maybe rightly so I can't imagine why but but well so you're a chairman yeah just just lead us don't don't go off by yourself that's all I'm saying thanks no didn't go off by myself and I do have goals and I'll say it again because you just said it again that if you if you don't understand why a governing body doesn't look at the Constitution and consider it important and and be able to talk about it that's just wrong I'm sorry I absolutely do believe it sir it just isn't one of our it isn't one of our goals all right we are adjourned at 11:37 l