[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] now [Music] a [Music] n [Music] oh [Music] [Music] w [Music] heyy [Music] heyy [Music] hey [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes [Music] he [Music] he [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] w [Music] w [Music] w [Music] a [Music] w [Music] [Music] he welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 [Music] [Music] minutes [Music] no [Music] oh [Music] [Music] he [Music] w [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 minutes [Music] [Music] that's [Music] is [Music] e e e our mic's on there we go go okay good good morning everybody nice to see you here this beautiful morning in March um you'll notice our VI our chairman is is running a few minutes late he will be here from what I hear but we are uh going to go ahead and get this meeting started we start out with uh a prayer and today we are going to have a moment of silence so after the moment of silence we will have our Pledge of Allegiance so um if you would at this time please stand thank you very much I pledge allegiance to the of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stand one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice thank you very much please be seated okay uh Madam clerk at this time if you'll please do our roll call Mr Robbins here Mr Santiago here Mr Dempsey here Mr Johansson here Mr Kent here Mr Reinhardt here Mr Brower okay next we will have our public participation and do we have any public participation this morning I'm seeing a head shaking yes so it's it's coming thank you very much I will read these in the order that they were received please know whenever you come up you have three minutes to talk about anything that you would like to talk about that's not on the that's not on the printed agenda please make sure sure your comments are directed to this entire Council um if you need to raise or or lower the podium you can do that please speak directly into the microphone and first up we have Jack enthal when you come up you for security purposes you do not have to give us your exact address but please tell us where you're from so we know which district you're in thank you very much go ahead Jack my name is Jack anthol I live on Martin Street for the past 30 years over 30 years that's in northwest of land route 15a and railroad tracks we've had flooding there for about the Last 5 Years the last two years it's been worse I got old live oak trees dead the first problem started when Heritage Place was built that's got to be in the like 2006 then mallerie Square was next now it's Spring Garden tow houses I put marker Flags in my yard after larger rain events and I would look a week later and the water would be a couple inches higher but it had not rained in all that time all three developments have designed storm Waters to flow into Retention Ponds near our flood area this practice is most easily explained with the last site development Spring Garden town houses this site is 15 Acres that naturally slope to the north and east north side was built up with hundreds of truck of Phil now slopes from South to a dry retention near us on the south 10 acres of the 15 is allowed to be imp impervious surface that 10 acres all drains into a 1 acre retention the one next to us one inch of rain on one acre is 27,000 gallons 13 tons 10 acres 1 in is 271,000 11100 30 tons the average rainfall 54 in 14 million gallons 113 million pounds forced into the ground through pressure a Year's worth of rain on one acre is a box 200 ft by 200 ft 54 in tall so about like this a Year's worth of rain on 10 acres forced into 1 acre retention is a box 200 feet by 200 feet 540 in that's 45 ft High groundwater moves down until it hits a clay layer then can only go laterally that 10 acres of rain storm water groundwater was not given to me by nature but by man designer engineer planer or counsilman if we all get 50 in that seems fair but why should I get some of another guys 50 in because they don't think they should share city and county Engineers tell me the planning and development is all legal well somebody is blowing smoke how can it be legal to ruin somebody's property and dreams about 12 properties are affected by this flood including Duke Energy CSX railroad Valia County School FFA Farm we need help thanks a lot thank you Jack next up we have Lorna Larson Miss Larsson welcome when you start talking you'll have three minutes hi good morning Council Lua County Council and my address is in DeBerry but we do health reasons I've been living with my son in the land so so I have both residents this is about the one in Dand now that my front yard isn't available to park in the house doesn't have open Windows to throw tires and waste in the rotting tree they covered most of the backyard creating a barrier for the to be able to throw human waste human diapers all of this I had to clean up in the back before I purchased the property I uh had all of this so I knew what the property was like someone has claimed that we need to abide by rules that even they don't abide by and don't seem to be required the code enforcement notice on the front gate over the no trespassing sign posted there was addressed to Tanner Larson an ADA and part owner of the property who is it that I should ask for harassment charges County or state this is Tanner Larson he is my son and he has been working real hard to to do what is required for okay did somebody have questions for me no ma'am now's not the time for that but I I am going to direct your son if you don't mind before you start talking go over and see our our County Manager right now and get a card from him he's going to raise his hand right now for you so you see who he is just head over there Tanner and grab a card because you're you're up next to speak thank you Miss Larson you may have a seat thank you very much thank you next up is Tanner Larsson as my mom identified I am uh under the Ada um information um my mom has submitted her statement uh for reference the actual statement is in record uh she also submitted some pictures those pictures are identifying specifically on the left hand side of the paper uh the different pictures taken were for um on the far left hand side when they put the code enforcement uh notice sticking them onto the no trespassing sign came back later and after we complained about that and reidentified it and the all the pictures on the right hand side are pictures of the neighboring area and different issues that are visual visible from the street uh the code identified me directly in the to begin with as me being the only homeowner which was not in record which identified that they were not going off of record when they came out he also identified that he had taken pictures of a code violation from somebody else's backyard uh this being said I understand that that is not according to code uh there are so many other code violations constantly in the neighborhood and around town that are definitely visual visible from the streets and this individual coming to my property seeing nothing in the front yard being of code violation and then going into somebody else's backyard to identify any form of code violation I think should be addressed um I don't know how else to say it other than that I feel that is a direct attack against me Tanner thank you for thank you for your comments and you have Mr Reon wal's card please give him a call later thank you yep okay next up Raymond Parker Council chair uh council members my name is Raymond a Parker I am in district one I live at 1800 Glenwood Reserve Drive in Del land and I approach you today to request your guidance assistance and action to have our homeowners association leadership itself and others cease and desist posting off premises signage in Glenwood Reserve repeatedly I met with Belia County Code Compliance on this matter I met twice with valua growth Ro Resource Management on this matter I filed formal complaint with the Glenwood Reserve Homeowners Association Incorporated and I filed formal complaint with the Valia growth and resource management but to no avail Friday last Friday March the 1st and then on Saturday March I 2 two and then four off premises Sal signs were posted these abuse values common violations as dictated by Code Compliance Homeowner Association Corporation leadership itself asserts that they need not comply with the common violations guideline section uh Homeowners Association Corporation leadership maintains that vucha county code section 72 298 releases them and others from compliance I vehemently disagree with such I ask your our valua County Council to act to cease and assist this practice this signage practice in our community please do so in accordance with theia County's common violations thank you thank you Mr Parker next up is Joe tremens and just so you all know and for our recording secretary our chairman has arrived I'm going to pass everything back over to you so you can take over absolutely Joe trimens I too have a problem with code enforcement Mr Hutchinson has been targeting me and when I turn in a complaint the complaint does not get you searched at all I turned in 335 complaints of the same thing that he got my yard for because my neighbor turned me in I turned my neighbor in and he doesn't have to take his fence down I had to take my fence down to this day two years later they don't have their fence down I asked Mr Hutchinson and he says well I didn't know so he didn't do my complaint then he come on my property the first day he was there and he states to me the only thing you can do on this property is walk that's not what you people are here for you don't tell a disabled veteran he can only walk on his property this is United States and then he held up my permit for my fence by 6 weeks for a goer thing and the lady that came out to do the goer thing says to me man I yours must have been stuck at the bottom of the pile for a while I'm doing tomorrow's and yours is 3 months old this is what the goer Ladi that had to do with Mr Hutchinson okay that's not even it then Mr Hutchinson come to I called him on the phone and asked him why they wouldn't approve baloa County wouldn't approve my solar panels on my roof you know what he told me well you have an open fence permit that is expired and that stops us from issuing your solar panels so my solar panel been waiting for three months that's money out of my pocket because he wants to play with me this is wrong then he sends um I can't Freddy something the uh code enforcement officer to my property to find something on my property and Freddy I can't think of the guy's name I got it right here give me a second you've only got 30 seconds so make the best of it it was one of the code enforcement officers and he says to me he's the one that wrote you the ticket I was under the the very thing they told me was they can't write tickets they can't stop on the road and say that bench is too high you can't do that but yet he stopped at my house and I got summoned to two court gates thank you sir we we hear you this wrong we hear you yeah but nobody's doing nothing and then thank you your time is up yeah and then after that thank you Troy thank you for uh stepping in this is why we have a vice chair um I'm going to try and plow through today uh next up is uh Joe jinus that was just Jo that was Joe did JC already speak okay JC I'm glad I didn't miss you my name is JC figuro I live on Jackson Woods Road in Delan so I drew I actually printed a couple topography maps of the area and I think what I have here is a a a pretty accurate warning to the council that they need to start taking action and start preparing uh what we have here is uh we have Blue Lake Avenue running hor uh vertical and then horizontal is Orange Camp or I'm sorry um yeah uh Taylor so the retention pond on the bottom right is that pond that you see on Taylor Road all of the property that I colored on here is under 78t elevation above sea level right now the current water in this retention Pond and on my property which is connected to this averages about 76 and 1 12 ft so what I'm showing is is any type of rain event that we're going to get this is all area that's going to be covered underwater and it's time that you guys not all of you but some of you start addressing this and taking this seriously because it's not just me and my neighbors it's a lot of people so there's there's a couple more um this is up where you guys are doing the new development okay this is uh 44 and Kepler um what you see colored is what's 72 feet above sea level okay so now it's the opposite everything that's not colored is up to 10 ft below 15t below where the water is at my house so again what is going to happen is is when we get a storm a hurricane tropical storm or something that drops feet of water all of this property will be flooded I said this before I've gave everybody a warning this is going to happen the crazy thing is is you guys just uh wiim aets develop this just got de uh approved with the Publix and the hund and whatever houses um all that water is going to Mound up and it's going to add so the other thing I I have more slides but you guys get the picture all this is underneath the the current water table that's heading that way is why isn't the county pursuing the city on legal charges why aren't you guys helping us I have the data I can show that the city is affecting all of us I can show that the city's causing flooding on County property I know you guys are being sued by a County resident for water on his property I have the data that shows that the water is coming from the city um George uh County manager and another guy came out and seen water elevation differences flowing in from the city onto my property which I'm in the county why is this not being taken more seriously and you guys paying attention to the problem you're doing a horrible job and you're messing it up for all of us we work hard for our money and what we have and you guys are treating it like it's garbage thank you JC thank you skip Simmons I think it went up about a quarter inch hello everybody uh my name is Skip Simmons I am the executive director of no longer fatherless I live in Port Orange and we founded no longer fatherless right here in vucha County so we became Incorporated in 2016 we got our 501 c 3 in 2017 we started our first class of mentors in 2018 and I've been able to be uh the first employee since 2019 so our mission is to recruit train and match mentors with boys growing up without a father figure and we have grown to nearly 60 mentors matched with 60 boys uh throughout valua and a few in Flagler and the reason I'm here is just to spread awareness to let everybody know leaders in the community that this resource is out there for any of you who know single parents in need or men who would make a great mentor we're here to spread the word uh the United States has the highest single parent household rate in the entire world out of any other country so this is a a massive issue throughout our nation and our our area as well I believe vucha county has somewhere in the range of 24% single parent household rate so we have three main programs that we focus on so it's one toone weekly relational mentoring each Mentor is matched with one young man I've been mentoring not so young anymore he actually recently turned 18 but I've been matched with a young man named Liam for six years his father passed away in the military um and we also have life skill classes and group events we have an event each month some of these are we've had handyman classes job interview skills classes showing them anything that can get them excited showing them new experiences that can turn into a hobby a passion or hopefully a career last weekend we were in the Spruce Creek fly in we partnered with the young Eagles and we had the boys actually able to fly up in these private little planes with pilots who offered their services in time so boys who had never been in a plane before never thought about becoming a pilot and now they get to go for a flight fly over the ocean and you know this puts ideas in their head of what can be possible so we are trying to do everything we can to grow we were awarded our first grant through DCF last year which funded another full-time employee which has been incredible so if you guys know single parents in need send them our way if you know good men we have to our classes four times a year you can find us at no longera list.org and we ALS we're also on social media uh Facebook and Instagram and I gave brochures over there about 12 so everybody can grab one thank you thank you skip for coming in yeah everybody's afraid to speak in public he just made it look easy didn't he uh Elana cra hello everyone my name is Elena craft I live in Orman Beach um so today I just want to discuss what happened during the last council meeting um so during the last council meeting at the 11th Hour the majority took it upon themselves to ignore the dictate of the valua county Charter and stripped chairman Brower of his right to independent lead report to vucha County residents in the off the agenda vote the majority of now will now review the Chairman's speech ahead of time censoring the content to ensure that that it fits neatly into their template as this latest time- wasting political theater progressed the council took the opportunity to cut into chairman Brower over his single-handed attempt to protect our environment ensure water quality and quantity and make our beach more accessible then after spending the last year opposing and ridiculing him at every turn they they painted Mr Brower as unprofessional in addition the majority also demanded that Mr Brower stop using County letterhead to correspond with State officials and thus strategically blocked Mr brower's future efforts to bring attention to pending destruction of the Spruce Creek Watershed um his staunch opposition into badier terminals plan to put a 13 million gallon bulk fuel storage site in Orman Beach destructive flooding and other ecological disasters in the making the fact is our County Charter directs the chair to address both the council and valua County residents annually and this cheap power move does not take away their responsibility and it also set a very dangerous precedent of censorship which must be corrected immediately so most of that was taken from Barker's view which was um published last Friday and I really hope that each one of you takes this seriously um I did email each of you and only Mr Johansson answered um and I expect that our staff the county manager also addresses this because this was a very very um worrisome move by each one of you so it has to be discussed and it has to be corrected um I also want to say that you know I'm not going to be here for the next agenda meeting but I am opposed to the dissolu ution of all the Committees that is on the agenda today um any move away from Community engagement and representation uh is not doing us any justice so please go um move more in the direction of community engagement um than the other way around so thank you very [Applause] much thank you um that's the end of the list for uh public comments so we will move to item one the consent agenda uh does anyone have an item they would like to pull either for comment or for a vote move to approve second Mr Brower before you take a vote there was a public participation yes I see that for item o and I will call Mayor Gibson up at that time uh but first uh this is unusual George rewall County Manager well I was just going to uh reiterate that bar Gibson was here and wanted to speak just speak to oh he okay I wasn't going to forget you thank you for coming all the way from oakill it's it's always good to see you um we have a motion by David Santiago to approve the consent agenda was there a second it was Vice chair Kent gave the second before we vote mayor Gibson would you please come and um real quick before the mayor speaks I just want to introduce the uh the item is uh a lease on uh between bluch County utilities and the uh city of oakill to operate a new uh sanary sewer collection system that will serve two 280 homes and will serve to remove uh all those aging septic systems that are right adjacent mosquito Lagoon it was a Cooperative project between the county the city uh the D and the Water Management District and I'll turn it over to the mayor you didn't think the mayor could say that he was afraid of what I'd say uh County chair County council members Mr Breen W I'm here because I want to tell you this project cost 99 million it'll remove 280 septic tanks that drain directly into the mosquito Lagoon not only the citizens of oakill but the county that utilize the mosquito Lagoon for recreation purposes is going to benefit from this because removing the phosphates and nitrates that go into the Lagoon I'm a firm believer if we don't start we're going to lose this could not have been implemented could not have been completed without y'all's help I call out Mike all rich utilities director for his constant help council member Danny Robbins from our district for his undoubted belief that we can save the Lagoon but we have to start oill and its citizens want to thank each and every one of you for what yall have done thank you thank you mayor for coming in and for those whites words we have a motion and a second to approve the entire consent agenda um so let's vote and see if item o gets passed all in favor please say I I I any opposed passes thank you mayor [Music] okay that brings us to uh item two you're ready always sir discussion and direction of the dissolution oh my of advisory boards did you see these just now yes sir so you're going to start yes sir and then we will move into um public discussion on this item morning Mr chair members of council I'm Russ Brown Deputy County attorney uh at the December 5th 2023 meeting Council directed staff to bring back a list of boards that could sunset or be combined with other boards many of the County's boards are statut statutorily required and could not be dissolved the agenda summary contains the research conducted by staff and the impact sunsetting additional boards would have on the county depending on the board that is dissolved I'm here as well as other members of staff to answer any questions you may have and await the direction you give the staff regarding the boards so at this time I'll turn it over to you if you have any questions I'm here to answer thank you with this many people that want to speak 31 we should probably uh and growing we should probably hear from the uh public and then we will call you back up for questions George recton wall County I just want to reinforce Russ said a little you know this was uh for the benefit of the audience so you you know the ask here was to look at these boards and see about combining them or which ones may have uh needed a uh either repurposing or their purpose had passed uh and then you know there was I think one board on there that um we might want to we're having trouble filling that board on a constant basis it's a big time commitment and a special magistrate could be used and I'm speaking of that of the code enforcement board so uh just wanted to add that you know I know there's some concern about funding uh and except for the fact that maybe some of these boards um if they don't exist we couldn't get funding and I think we have that listed in there uh but today's discussion uh at least as written uh was not intended to get into the budget that's a something that a much later date today was really about these particular boards as he said combining or maybe repurposing or or elimination if they don't serve the purpose um we certainly do support um Community engagement and and that may be the purpose in some of these cases but uh some have other forms of community uh engagement the library has the friends of the library groups as well so there are that was really the intent today uh I think for Council to um give us Direction on what their thoughts were on some of those boards thank you I appreciate you saying that and I think it's also worth noting that this is not on the agenda because you or Mike Dyer decided to put it on the agenda it's here because the council asked you to put it on there it was it was our request not yours uh David Santiago thank you Mr chairman and and thank you George for uh bringing some some clarity to it I think uh um I've I've received several calls and I'm sure many of my colleagues already have on this topic um and possibly uh I could say I think I did say to to one of to someone out there this morning and maybe not maybe I think our messaging maybe was a little off on this um to yeah right I agree with you um but I think purpose I think people understand the root cause and the intent at least from from my perspective my colleagues can speak for themselves was that um I think programs in general in the government should always be reviewed from time to time I think it's healthy um not that uh it's focused on any particular one uh entity within it but the discussion is healthy not only for government operations but it's also healthy for the organizations that operate out there that are participate in um in some of these programs so um I think um many of you g at least in my opinion they're going to be uh in very good shape but the discussion I think is still healthy um I certainly have some um thoughts that I'll probably share at the end um asking some of these boards to uh uh if the council so agrees to expand some of their processes and look at ways to enhance some of these programs at their individual recomend Commendation so just wanted to put my thoughts out there Mr chairman Matt Reinhardt thank you Mr chair I think um Mr Santiago you just clarified I I wasn't sure if we were going to approach I guess a little Direction on each board individual because I think a lot of these people are here about one board in particular um which I have answered uh I think everybody knows where I stand with respect to that and I didn't know if that would make the process easier because there are a lot of people here uh passionate about every board but uh there's one in particular I believe uh I didn't know what would make that easier to move this process along quicker I I don't know what do we want to hear from everybody and then we start piecing every board every single board that we have out there or yeah I want I want to hear from the people that came in today and then we will um I'll open it back up for discussion and we'll see what questions we have and um I don't know that we need to do each board individually um I I hope that's not necessary but um Pat I'm sorry but you're first you want me to put bury you in this stack Pat northy so do I today so we're going to be a good pair okay here I go okay Council I am here to encourage you to reject item two frankly as a former County council member who sat in your chair for 20 years I call BS on this agenda item advisory boards are an important part of V count government and represent the most engaged citizens in our communities they give up their time provide their talent and they seek no treasury for serving over the years they have done important work and provided great insight into the county and for the council I am particularly concerned about the status of the V forever and Echo boards being combined part of the success of these programs is that they operate with full transparency and oversight of a citizen advisory committee in both instances each ballot question spoke to a specific Advisory Board in the matter of echoer the words directly in order to ensure the proceeds are used solely to finance acquisition restoration construction and Improvement of recreation historic and cultural facilities for public use the County Council shall appoint electors to an advisory oversight committee to provide for ongoing review of all projects under consideration and to make recommendations to the County Council language involution forever followed closely the echo language it reads as follows in order to implement a program to finance negotiations acquisition protection restoration access and management costs the County Council shall create an advisory oversight committee it further States the oversight committee shall recommend a land acquisition program with policies procedures standards and criteria for the purchase of endangered land and conservation lands and Water Resource areas I assure you as the former chair of the re of the committee to The Campaign Committee to reauthorize the two programs it was never intended that valicia forever Ando would chare a joint recommending committee the battle language in both referendums clearly reflects that the work is important it is hard and it is different for both boards to combine them would break Faith with the public who clearly wanted to continue the good and independent work required to meet the obligations of these boards please keep these boards separate in addition you have several other high profile boards that should be saved including enra historic preservation the cultural Council in fact all our boards speak to our quality of life and whether it be cfab affordable housing the library board or any other board now on the shopping block they work hard to advance valua County kill this agenda item thank you thank you Pat for a speech impediment that was pretty Flawless we now have uh can I get a a point that uh Personal Privilege that might help the council if I may you may um thank you Pat by the way you a great job uh on in that um but I think it's important Mr chairman in case there's some others in the audience um I I don't recall ever this Council discussing about combining those two boards I don't think that's ever been on the agenda and I thought it's important Pat for you to know and maybe others um okay okay um mayor Shaz from the beautiful city of DeBry and well-run you have 30 seconds thank you very much um I am here as a resident and taxpayer not in my official role I do live in DeBerry um I am going to speak to two of the boards listed in this agenda item specifically because they are high priority for me but it does not mean that I I wouldn't have a feeling about the other boards being disbanded or combined because I do believe that we need to hear from the residents the first one that I would mention is the cultural Council traditionally according to your website around $600,000 is directed towards the art for the county and that is a discussion for another date as the as the county manager has said however that's roughly a dollar a day per person in fuchia County um and we have supported a large number of cultural organizations that provide services throughout the County and I looked at the board's meeting schedule they meet six seven times a year and they cover both the west side and the east side and they provide the input that is needed to reflect the needs of the art community and our residents and I believe that pairing back that input while we have money to support the Arts is not the direction to go the direction to go is when we have a modest amount to support things that are important to all of us that we have citizen input and we have volunteers who donate their time and I think that we should not do that in the interest of efficiency assign that to staff to bring to council and then have the only public input on the awarding of these funds come at the very 11th Hour be in a meeting where the council votes yes or no that is my objection to the elimination of such boards on the proposal which is in the agenda um Mr Santiago to merge or combin Echo and valua forever in addition to what um my friend Pat Nory has said we also have the situation where the the skill sets the knowledge and background for the people that you all have appointed to these boards has only a modest overlap and trying to get people with a broad background in knowledge in these areas to be on one board I think is fool hearty forever has land acquisition conservation and environmental Eko has environmental cultural historic and outdoor recreation these are different skill sets and combined there would be 12 meetings a year which is Impractical and my time is up thank you very much I appreciate your being interested in your fiscal responsibility to us as residents thank you and I'll just I will um just so that we have a full house obviously this is important to you I I want to let you know that what has been discussed what uh David Santiago has already mentioned apparently everybody has read the item um which is really encouraging I'm glad that you're paying attention we need that I'm serious um everything that you read in there was did not originate from the council the staff did their job and told us what could be done and so some of the things like combining boards could be done but they're not suggesting that it is done they want us to decide that so there's a lot of information in there that just for all of us to consider and make a decision on it's not because Mike Dyer or George recton wall wanted those things to um to happen they're doing their job and telling us um decisions that we could make so that that might help you in your in your comments this morning Sydney Johnson Sydney Johnston 535 North cair Avenue 32720 thank you for your service to valuch County residents for maintaining our advisory boards and committees as currently organized as a fifth generation native of the land my ancestry includes early settlers who arrived before there was a city of D land and when Enterprise was still the seat of County government over the past 150 years my ancestors have enjoyed and contributed to Lucha County's e economy and our Arts cultural historical and nonprofit organizations and paid taxes to support our government next I paraphrase founding father and second president of these great United States President John Adams I must study politics and war that are Sons may have Liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children the right to study painting poetry music and architecture from politics and War to architecture and music president Adams understood the Deep value and hard work to be able to prioritize the Arts in their many forms president Adams was also concerned about his place in history and the storytelling of History accurately thousands of valuch accountants agree with our founding father about the intrinsic economic values of art culture and history and I would add to that list the the environment as witnessed by the many thousands of persons and millions of dollars that flowed into vucha County each year due to events and festivals associated with the Arts culture environment and Heritage the valua echo program has supported the design and construction of millions of dollars in buildings and sites for government agencies and nonprofit organizations engaged in the Arts environment history and outdoor recreation exactly the way the electric voted on resolution 20279 with an approval by over 70% please do not combine Echo and forever programs because they have different funding sources with very different missions objectives and requirements and were voted for as separate entities H is historical for the echo program and a key feature of vucha County's Heritage the Valia County historic preservation board represents one of the longest serving and most significant of our advisory boards and reflects our history constituted in 1992 and reorganized in 2007 its roots run deeper to 1951 when the Florida legislature and County government created the Florida C the Valia County Historical commission the historic preservation board is vital to County's qualification as a certified local government since 2009 our CLG status and certification have given the county preferred stat status in applying for historic preservation grants and review Author and review Authority for properties to be listed the national register of historic places please do not eliminate or other otherwise diminish valua County's art culture environmental and historic preservation boards and committees in the name of good government thank you for your service thank you okay I'm going to call uh several people up so that you're uh ready you come up one at a time but next will be Gary Swanson followed by Nancy vaugh followed by Melissa Lamers just so you can be prepared my name is Gary Swanson I live in bethon Beach uh want to thank you council members for the opportunity to speak to you today on behalf of the southeast valua Historical Society you've all received a letter from our board of directors yesterday VI email and a copy of which is being provided to you today at this meeting our board of directors appreciates your efforts to streamline our local government processes as it relates to the Valia County citizen advisory boards we would however ask that you consider the fact that some of these advisory boards work on valua County's behalf to facilitate processes tied directly to the County budget's fiscal year the vucha county cultural Grant Workshop Grant submission and review process was due to begin by the end of January grants are due in May reviewed during the midsummer and voted on by you prior to the end of September as the fiscal year ends by suspending the activities of this particular board along with others you have eliminated the County's process that initiates reviews and awards these grants though it may not have been the intent the action of suspending all Advisory Board activities has the effect of jeopardizing the funding that would be available through this program for the coming fiscal year the southeast vucha County Historical Society would ask that a motion be brought forward at today's meeting to reinstate the functions of all the citizen advisory boards that have activities related to funding in the upcoming fiscal year it is not necessary to suspend the activities of these act advisory boards in order to review the work they do and make changes in the coming years suspending the activities of Citizen volunteers also does not save fuchia County money it does however put harmful stress on the budget processes of the many cultural entities that count on these yearly grants please restore the process by which these important grants are awarded today again we thank you for your time and the work you do on behalf of the citizens of Lucia County and thank you for your support of culture and arts in the county thank you sir thank you Nancy [Applause] vong Nancy you speaking for the League of Women Voters yes I am y thank you good morning chair Brower council members and County Manager reenal my name is Nancy vaugh I live in Port Orange and I'm representing the League of Women Voters of aluia County Today a nonpartisan organization that has been educating voters for 104 years the Le believes strongly in citizen engagement in citizen engage engagement in government at all levels but especially locally we respectfully ask that you not disband the environmental and natural resources advis advisory committee the purpose of enra based on their basing their work on Provisions in the valuchi count vucha County Home Rule Charter is to recommend minimum standards to protect the environment recommend corresponding implement ordinances and taking these recommendations to you the council the enra committee is made up of engaged thoughtful intelligent members of the community who have long-term experience in their field from Professionals in engineering to environmental law city planning to real estate development they can and have worked collaboratively to address some of the many issues this County faces among those include but are not limited to Wetlands protection low impact development River and Waterway protection storm water management and protecting our designated so source aquafer which I know you all know means that the aquafer is our only source of drinking water in the county much of what this committee does ultimately protects our water the council as a body has the opportunity to ask this Advisory Board to explore these topics and others that are within the scope of enra this board in particular is poised to be able to work to address the sustainability and resiliency issues that your Environmental Management team is already doing public Outreach on many of us attended the valua forward sustainability Workshop it was well received these are real issues that will continue to challenge us working together proactively to address issues from Beachside erosion to Chronic flooding is the better option than reactive crisis management although both both may be necessary in closing advisory boards are a good tool to engage citizens in government and to provide meaningful inputs to elected officials that can assist in their decision making can you pause one second and hold her time whoever's got their phone going can you turn it off it's makes it hard for everybody to hear and I I don't want to rob you of your thank you of your time thank you thank you go ahead and enclosing advisory boards are a good tool to engage citizens in government and to provide meaningful input to elected officials that can assist with their decision making final decisions on any ordinance adoption still reside with the County Council we respectfully ask you not to disband enra thank you for your time thank you um Melissa Lamers while you're on your way up I'm I just want to make a a brief state statement that I we've I think we probably all have received emails about questioning what we do up here that if we talk to each other look at our phones or whatever well everybody just saw um uh Mr Reinhardt speak to me and and leave the room I I'm not going to tell you exactly what he said but I'm going to let you know he wants to be here he's got a family emergency that he's dealing with good I mean a critical family emergency so I'm glad you're back and if you need to go at some point go Melissa thank you good morning council members Mr Reinhardt I hope your situation resolves happily my name is Melissa Lamers I live in Orman by the Sea District 4 I believe that a strong democracy requires citizen participation advisory committee members are some of the most civic-minded and engaged citizens in our community they give their time their talent and the form of their expertise and their treasure it costs money to drive to and from the land all for free it's one of the most fiscally responsible aspects of our local government and also one of the most representative most advisory commit committee members are appointed by you they extend and increase your ability to take deep dives into matters that are important to constituents to our community the role of an advisory committee isn't to make decisions that's your job but rather to provide you with current knowledge critical thinking and Analysis so that you can have greater confidence in your decision making I chair the environmental and natural resources advisory committee or enra an extension of the County's home requirement Charter requirement to have minimum standards to protect the environment enra members come from very different professional backgrounds including agriculture commercial development environmental science accounting land use law environmental engineering community planning real estate environmental NOS government Affairs and business Consulting what we have in common is a commitment to our work to balance the needs of development with protection of the environment by thoroughly examining the questions before us making sure that each of us is heard we have lengthy preadsorbed in almost a year and a half I believe there are good citizens capable of keeping an open mind to do the hard work of advisory boards because I sit on a committee with a number of them if some committees are struggling please address those but don't throw out the good with the bad finally as Vice chair of the campaign to renew valua forever and echko I keep a close watch on both programs as you know our campaign promised accountability and transparency to the public in the form of oversight committees establishing oversight committees was included in each of the separate resolutions reauthorizing the programs merging the Comm the Committees appears antithetical to their intent and definitely would make them unwieldy less effective and efficient I'm sure that isn't what you want for the Advisory Board that's so popular again advisory boards do important work for free that helps you get a handle on the many many issues you must decide members give free expertise to the county and represent our citizens please continue to work with them thank you thank you uh Paul is it Paul crosi and then you will be followed by Patricia miles and Patricia will be followed by Kathleen Thompson thank you for the opportunity to address you on this important issue um my name is Paul croche I live in Dand um there are costs for groups like this like enra and other uh but the benefits in planning ahead make the Investments worth it now um chair chair Brower um you're you're a better teacher than I am you actually got all of your students or most of your students to to read their homework so well done as a as a teacher myself I notice that we can't all study all issues The Advisory committees will do that homework for us and if you don't like their findings they're advisory you can rule past them but they are citizen voices so please don't silence them or divert them or divert their work um the voices of The Advisory boards um um offer potential not to be political that's not the point it's good democracy and it's good government carry on and do the right thing Patricia miles and and Paul I don't know how you knew that but I'll let you know that we had a rule in our house that if you didn't do the work you didn't eat that solved the problem Patricia good morning chairman Brower and uh council members um I am a retired art teacher I am a valua County resident for more than 55 years I live on a r Palm Drive in Port Orange Florida I am going to do something I don't typically do and I'm going to go off script because many of the things that I was going to say have already been said several times but one of the most important things I think is how um the Florida uh Arts Council came up with uh data that said that the major contributing Industries to Florida's economy are retail construction arts and culture transportation and utilities and so in pondering what could be happening as far as our cultural boards are concerned I thought there's no way these guys would El eliminate any help in those areas because we don't know what we don't know you need help and input from your citizens the Arts and Cultural economic activity accounted for 39 billion dollar of Florida's economic activity 3 3.1% of the Florida's uh gpp is the GDP is the um monetary value of the performing Arts Museum Design Services Fine Arts education and Educational Services as far as jobs are concerned Florida's nonprofit arts and culture organizations and their audiences supported over 990,000 uh full-time equivalent jobs and paid $3.7 billion in Florida resident household incomes that's an important factor but here in Valia County audience attendees demonstrated a real appreciation for how the arts and culture impact their own lives and the well-being of our communities and our residents your constituents reacted this way 92% said this venue or facility is an important pillar for for me within my own Community 95.5% said I would feel a great sense of loss if this venue were no longer available 95.5% said this activity or venue inspires a sense of pride in my community or my neighborhood and 92.9% said do I have to stop yeah all right three minutes goes by so quick yes it does well done though thank you for coming in um are you are you Kathleen Kathleen yes okay and you will be followed by Steve wonderly and Tara kizling good morning Council and Council staff Kathy Thompson I live in Orman Beach in Mr Kent District but I am president of Daytona Playhouse luckily in Mr reinhardt's District I had planned to attend your meeting today to actually update you on our echo which we hope to complete in April that has been an incredible project for us and I do want to take the time today to say thank you to every citizen of uchia County who voted to continue the echo program we could never have done this renovation without that but I will take the time to remind you of what you can and cannot do with an e it is a brick and mortar only expansion of your building you cannot replace your 50-year-old roof you cannot redo your parking lot you can't use Echo money to get an air conditioning system that's now working or not working or a heating system Eko requires you to sign a 30-year contract that you will stay open offering your services to the community but they don't offer you a dime to accomplish that the vast majority of Grants across this country only fund something new they want a new program a new event that serves some new part of your constituency and they only fund you for one year if you want to continue that program you have to find the money to do that that is why the Valia County Grant is so important to the arts and culture organizations who work very hard to obtain The Limited Grant dollars we are eligible for it is one of the very few grants that actually allows money to be used to support the expensive programs we put on for our community royalties have increased as just one example gone up 40% that's the fees we pay to even put a show on the vucha county Grant has primarily been used at Daytona Playhouse for the children's musical production in the summer and that has allowed us to keep ticket prices to the valua county camps including from your area Mr Santiago and Deltona Lakes Elementary School as well that we have served Faithfully for 12 years every summer and we charge $6.50 per child and the counselors attend for free if we do not get the grant we can't afford to do that we will have to raise our ticket prices across the board the cultural Advisory Board serves this County so well they are all passionate and knowledgeable about the Arts they may have their own personal preference for a particular art but they never let that override their decision of how they support all of us they are not politicians and they are dedicated thank you just pass a resolution to get our grants Steve wonderly followed by ter kizling followed by Samantha Stern good morning chairman Brower Council and staff uh my name is Steve wonderly I live in Daytona Beach and I'm here to speak in support of advisory boards in general government works better when citizens are engaged and that's exactly what you have with advisory boards smart people volunteers who support your efforts by dedicating themselves doing research and other work that would get done otherwise they provide you a knowledge you wouldn't have otherwise knowledge is power and advisory boards give you more power to do your job well making government more efficient is a laudable goal but dissolving functioning advisory boards would do the opposite it would result in you're making less informed poorer decisions that would make government less efficient to to dissolve functioning advisory boards would simply be to make it clear that you prefer not to use all the tools available to you that you choose to make your decisions on less information and that you don't value the contributions of engaged citizens the rest of us the people who are affected by your decisions and who rely on you to make wise decisions deserve better than that thank you all thank you Tera kizling followed by Samantha Stern followed by Jason and summer follow I'm Tara I'm up now though right yes ma'am you are well good morning everybody thank you for having me here my name is Tara kissling and I live on Nash Lane for the last 30 years in Port Orange with my husband we're both veterans but I'm very invested in I'm going to talk fast speak because I don't know how this all goes so um I'm very invested in all of vucha County I love vucha County I um dispatched for 13 years with Orman my last job was eight years at the uh airport right here in vucha County so I am invested in in vucha County when I retired I immediately went to the Daytona Playhouse and threw myself into volunteerism I have a passion for it and and these advisory boards that are made up of volunteers that are not only the experts that you're all talking about but they're they have the passion they not only have the knowledge but they have the passion so please don't think of combining them this is too important let me tell you my favorite part I have time let me tell you my favorite part of um volunteering okay just let me tell you because it is interacting with our with our citizens with our community with your constituents that's my favorite part and I have heard not only oh they enjoyed the show no they're part of us we are part of their community so when the good times and the bad times when we had the storms and they had I know I talk with my hands um they when they we had the storms and we had we had we had damage at the Daytona Playhouse they wanted to hear about that I wanted to hear about the storm the problems that they had with I mean we are part of that through our health issues and coming back the joy of coming back talking to people who have are are newly I still have time uh talking about uh talking to people who are newly widowed or people who are um just moved into the area they used to be here part-time and now they are fat they are so thrilled with what fuchia county does for them so please do not think it is a small thing these advisory boards it's not going to streamline it what it's going to do is take away from that individual that expertise and that passion it is extremely important that um that you hear from people from my angle also so that's really all I have but I um thank I thank all of you it was nice to meet you finally Mr Robins and and I did um I sent out an email to EV to um everyone but I did hear back thank you Mr Brower thank you Mr ryanard I did hear back from both of you so thank you and have a wonderful day thanks for having me wow Samantha I'm sorry you have to follow okay good morning my name is Samantha Stern I live in Dand I am the director of theater at Daytona State College and an assistant chair of the Mike Curb College of Music Entertainment and Art thank you for hearing just a bit of my perspective today as an Arts educator in valuch County I get to work together with local theaters artists audiences and especially students in a tight-knit community that brings invaluable enrichment to this area there is some amazing talent in Valia as many of you know and let me tell you many students who have grown up in our local Community Theaters have received scholarships to our College because of the opportunities and experiences they have received right here in Dand our graduates go on to work in New York City on cruise ships in Regional theaters theme parks National tours and as Arts Educators themselves I am not only an educator and a performer but also the parent of two children Leo and Stella who take classes and perform at the wonderful Athens theater here and participate in a plethora of cultural experiences through their school at Ivon Charter School for the Arts these opportunities come directly from the support and input of the valua County Council cultural Advisory Board their roots in our community serve as part of our Lifeline as I drove into downtown to land this morning I passed our sign that says Arts culture and Entertainment District and I had an incredible sense of Pride and gratitude come over me support from theoa County Cultural Arts Council and Advisory Board makes an incredible difference in so many people's lives and while it may not always be quantifiable I see it every single day in my work in my community and in my family I hope you will continue to allow our experts on the cultural Council Advisory Board to help make decisions that make fuchia County an amazing place to live yay Jason and summer valo uh you will be followed by uh Craig uppercue and Craig you will be followed by Ruth and Fay good morning Council thank you for having us my name is Jason Volo we live off of Glenwood hammock in Dand and uh my daughter summer is 11 who attends Athens theater she is here with me today because we homeschool our children Mrs Baldwin Miss angelin and their staff are absolutely incredible and and cutting their funding sunsetting dissolving or combining this group with another would would be a detriment to the program tuition is already expensive and cutting their funding would likely result in further increases this could result in lower participation due to the current economy they have a record number of kids joining and the kids are awesome at their craft many children are not in traditional Sports and this is their passion we we should not be looking at children's activities and art as a way to cut expenses the tax impact per household is estimated about a125 which is minimal Athens brings value with all of their Productions patrons come from all over to watch these performances which in turn drives revenue for our downtown business owners I am asking that you please reconsider an alternative measure rather than impact the children good morning ladies and gentlemen I am summer Volo and I am 11 years old if if it were not for Athens theater I would not have the courage to stand up here and address you today I love to do theater and this is I and this is what I want to do when I grow up I want to follow this through to my college through this these years and Beyond I love the entire staff at theaters at Athens as they are sweet kind and positive influence for all of us I I would hate to lose any funds for the program that would cause organizations the Athens theater today I urgently address the potential elimination of the advisory Council boards particularly the county or sorry the cultural Council as you know the citizen staffed volunteer-driven communities or committees uh including the esteemed cultural Council are not just bureaucratic entities they offer invaluable input and serve as a vital bridge between the government and the public the cultural council is unique among advisory boards they play a crucial role in the direct distribution of funds to Arts organizations and applicants these intricate processes involve careful review of extensive documentation interactions at public meetings scoring applications and serving the public face of the granting process on average each council member invests considerable volunteer hours contributing to the consensus-driven decision-making process now let me emphasize the direct impact on our students and families Arts organizations heavily depend on the annual cultural Grant dollars provided by the cultural Council which in return allows the organizations to pour additional resources into our Public Schools disbanding the cultural Council would severely jeopardize these essential funds and consequently hinder the holistic growth and development of our students in schools recognizing the economic impact through our arts and economic Prosperity 6 study cultural grants are critical the A6 information specific to valua County was hand delivered to your clerk this morning and she promised to give you that at the end of today's meeting the dismissal of the cultural Council risks losing the state designation as the local Arts agency this designation enables the county to access funds from the Arts license plate program and apply for State funds specifically does at for local Arts agencies losing these income sources would not only hurt our cultural organizations but directly impact the programs and initiatives that benefit our students and families I urge the County Council to carefully consider these consequences this morning prioritizing the well-being of our community as you always do the educational experiences of our students and the vibrate cultural landscape that def that defines our public and beautiful fuchia County thank you so much for your attention this morning thank you K Ruth and Ruth Anne Fay followed by Tracy fler followed by Jessica gal several of the groups that I belong to open with the Americans Creed I believe in the United States of America as a government of the People by the people for the people whose just powers are derived by the consent of the government we are a bottomup country not a top- down country like Russia and China without cultural events you will kill the town when people come to theaters museums art fairs they go to our restaurants and stores they eat dinner before the theater and they visit all the booths at the art fair without cultural events the only entertainment will be jumping out of airplanes and hoping the parish shoot opens when I moved here 30 years ago Stetson had a carolon it played beautiful music it was destroyed by a hurricane now there's only a melum with President Mrs holberry there I'm looking forward to it being rebuilt tiger the tugboat is not a cultural venue it's more like the Liberty Bill and Philadelphia it is an important part of the role vucha County played in World War II tiger does not belong on your list nor does the Naval Air Station I was treasur of the shoestring theater for seven years your grants do not begin to cover the needs of a 105 yearold African-American school house that was turned into a theater but they do help never forget our history people won't want to move to the land if there no cultural venues good we've overbuilt killed too many trees the traffic's horrible the roundabouts are challenging there's hardly anywhere to park go ahead and kill the town make it a melum thank you Tracy followed by Jessica gal followed by Bill Wright good morning members of the County Council my name is Tracy fler executive director of valua Community Arts located here in the land I stand before you today along with others who are part of the Arts and Cultural Community to ask each of you to allow the advisory boards the cultural Council and the grant to stay in place but before I go further I would like to share just one quote that spoke to me and I hope it does to you as well arts and culture are not just Frills but crucial elements of human life we stand here today asking you to reconsider your potential decision on eliminating a program that brings a huge return of investment into the county and helps to enrich and benefit the community the money received from the program is not what we exist on it is no more than 20% of our expenditures but it helps us to enrich the lives of those who are behind a pay wall and turned away from experiencing any number of programs it allows them the opportunity to be a part of a program that gives them a sense of ambition if a tax rate of 25 cents per household per year is something that this board feels is not a worthy amount then engage with us come to our establishments and events to see what we use these funds for I know I myself have invited you in the past to see firsthand what it is that we do we look forward to a day that you do come and the rest of the Arts Community filling this room today would probably do the same we ask that you not cut the program until you are are truly aware of what we all do by allowing us to continue to enrich the tourism that valua county is well known for the return of investment continues to help in the growth of this community it educates those who travel here about who we are and how the arts and culture are in are an integral part of the community this grant does more than you realize and those who acquire it are grateful for the use of it as well of those in the community that get to benefit from it as you and as you may or may not know there are no longer State funds available I'm going to end with another quote which is one that VCA currently uses the idea is not to live forever it is to create something that will by Andy Warhol today this is what we are all doing here in this room and with your cooperation we can continue to accomplish amazing things thank you thank you Jessica gal followed by Bill Wright followed by Ellen uh winter move good morning everyone Jessica gal Port Orange Florida this morning no official address um in the famous last words of a lawyer I will be brief um I have the honor of serving as a vice chair um on Florida or valua forever and enra um and I just want to say I did tell ni I went to the bathroom I said if if I'm not back get up there and just say you guys get the vibe you're picking it up um but I will say that I think the the number one thing the benefit of advisory boards is that the people who are on them and the people who are going to comment there are the same people who are going to fill this room if an item comes up um but it gives us the opportunity to have a collaborative discussion not three minute sound bites kind of arguing with each other so bringing that collaboration negotiation and bringing forward a proposal that is not always perfect and that's why we have you guys um but that kind of brings both sides together to kind of to say this is our best shot so thank you thank you Bill Wright is Bill wri still he had to leave okay you want to speak for him uh Ellen winterm followed by U Alexa Baldwin good morning and thank you for the opportunity to let me address you all I'm talking about item two retaining advisory boards and government serve several important functions providing valuable contributions and expertise that enhance the decision- making process and here are some of the reasons that you need to keep all the advisory boards they typically consist of experts in specific Fields relevant to government policy areas these individuals bring a depth of knowledge and specialization that may not be readily available within the agencies by retaining advisory boards governments can tap into this expertise to make more informed and effective decisions the boards often operate independently of political or Party politics and this Independence allows them to offer unbiased evidencebased recommendations that prioritize the public interest over short-term political considerations and this helps to ensure more robust and balanced decision-making process complex issues often require a multi-disciplinary approach advisory boards can provide a holistic perspective by bringing together professionals from various fields to analyze and address complex challenges this ensures that decisions are well-rounded and consider a wide range of factors and involving in external experts in the decision-making process can enhance public trust advisory boards contribute to transparency by providing insight into the rationale behind certain policies or decisions this openness can foster a greater sense of accountability and trust between government and public advisory boards are well suited for long-term strategic planning these bodies can conduct insert in-depth research analyze Trends anticipate further challenges and helping governments develop proactive policies that address emerging issues the boards can stream line decision-making processes by conducting thorough research and Analysis and this can save government officials such as yourselves time resources and allowing you to focus on policy implementation rather than spending extensive resources on research and fact finding the advisory boards can adapt quickly to changes in technology process and ultimately serve the needs and interest of your citizens thank you you Alexa Baldwin followed by Steven dor followed by Jack seret good morning everyone my name is Alexa Baldwin I am the executive director of the athens's theater I live here in Dand uh and thank you very much for being here this morning and for allowing us the opportunity to speak um there have been quite a few different variations of the numbers um I believe this to be correct uh that it actually falls somewhere around um $125 to $1.95 per year per household um is what we are talking about for these funds so that comes to about 16 cents per month towards the grant program um based upon the 61,7 158 allocation um now just to give you an idea my grant every year runs roughly around 100 Pages sometimes it's been 97 sometimes it's been 112 it's a lengthy document there are 32 different entities that come through here now it is the job of the Cultural Arts Council to go through and review all of these documents from these different organizations I would like you to imagine upon all of your jobs then putting that on you or on your staff because of course if it's on your staff then you're paying your staff more money which means more tax dollarss so there is that to think of first off secondly you can say that well dissolving the council doesn't really affect the money but actually it does because again you're looking at tax dollars that either a would be spent on paying staff more to do that you spending more time and I would like to know how many of you guys have actually attended different events at some of these different organizations I took a look um into our T ticketing system and only well two maybe three of you showed up Mr Dempsey it's been so long since you have actually attended it doesn't show when the last event was so it was definitely more than five years ago um there are several David Santiago so I cannot tell whether it was actually you or not who had attended and um let me see wait I have it right here on one of my many things um and uh let's see and Mr Reinhardt I applaud you thank you for coming twice in the last four years so this is part of my thing but just to give you an idea within your District I did do a breakdown per District of how many tickets were sold to people within your districts so in District One in our last fiscal year we sold 9,498 tickets to patrons who lived in District One in District 2 we sold 17,26 tickets um to people who lived in District 2 District 3 11,713 um District 4 we had 12,700 and District 5 6,311 that also leaves over 810 tickets from people who lived outside of vucha County bringing money into our County thank you very much Sten Steven dor um Don you I think you and I ought to take our wives to Athens what do you [Applause] think hello Council thanks for the opportunity to speak Steven dor living to land uh unlike some of the folks that have been up here before whove lived here for years decades Generations uh I'm here to represent the folks that have lived here for one year or less so we came down for an art show January of 2023 and discovered to land we never left and we could choose to live anywhere we chose to live here so it was due to the rich vibrant art community here if there's anything that puts that into Jeopardy I think folks like me would choose to live somewhere else and so I think that's really all I wanted to say thanks for your time please do not dissolve the Committees thanks thank you Jack suret Mr chairman since we've got a lot of uh emails regarding people coming and going uh I'd like to excuse myself to use the restroom [Laughter] TMI uh hi my name is Jack seret and uh I've lived in Norman Beach and I've lived there for 60 years and I've uh proudly served on uh the echo Advisory Board and for five years also the Valia growth management commission I'm currently a member of enra but my involvement over those years was for one real reason and that is to improve the quality of life in valua County either maintain it or make it better so I'm here today to just talk about inra and its importance uh to the county uh I like many residents uh are deeply concerned about the development especially when they take a minimum interest in the County's natural resources U this is a serious issue and probably one of the biggest issues we'll confront in the course of the next 5 years and uh in is an important part of that in involves everything from storm water runoff to flooding wetlands and tree preservation there's a lot to be done and it's hard work uh many of these ordinances have not been addressed in decades the county has changed we need to adjust to that uh in makes no rules or regulations we simply evaluate and suggest what we believe Mak sense you the County Council you decide on whether our recommendations are reasonable or ecologically beneficial so in effect inq is important to help you maintain fuchia County's quality of life Deborah Wright followed by Patty party followed by Wendy Anderson I think there seats down in the front if anybody wants to come fill them in good morning Council councilman and citizens of lcia County I am proud to say that I have always been aware of the diversity of Valia County but never have I been more impressed with the participation of that diversity we all have UniQue Ideas opinions and needs and that is why we need every one of our advisory boards you need every one of our advisory boards your staff while remarkable cannot do the total job you need the citizens advice good government is you guys doing your job great government is working with the citizens and the citizens working with you so we do a fabulous job for Valia County we can only benefit from our Cooperative collaboration we are your your resource we are the voice of uchia County please hear us and thank [Applause] you Patty party followed by Wendy Anderson thank you uh Patty party district one I live in Dand um I've highly edited my little three minute speech so you're getting off light today first of all I want to thank David Santiago for taking my calls um I reached out to a few of the others of you during the course of the past few months and there was no reply I won't call out names but David knows what it's like to talk to me on the phone and yet he still calls me back and I appreciate that very much not even in his district my first reaction to seeing this item on the agenda was that the Optics are terrible the cultural funding concern has been going on for almost a year when the Arts and cultural Community came out in full force in support of the county Grant process assistance was offered for clarification of any concerns the council may have had I do not believe it was taken seriously in any way the then fast forward to December it came up again once more no move was made to access the ccvc or any leadership of arts orgs for clarification then the mandatory County Grant Workshop date was pulled and not rescheduled last year's process was slow walked on the front end which meant funding granted to qualified orgs was late in coming our budget process is detailed and laborious and carefully planned around awarded grants then I'm going to skip a whole bunch of bad stuff I ask you please access those who can best provide the information you're seeking primarily The ccvc Advisory Board and break the strangle hold and let us get to work serving the bla count bla County as we have for decades thank you very much Wendy Anderson followed by Nancy Norman followed by um Cameron good morning and thank you um I do feel like um several other speakers have already spoken about the importance of Citizen engagement for our democracy so I too am going to go off script although I do want to to um share with you my first paragraph which is that I was listening to Jason Kelsey's retirement speech yesterday and um and really noted him quoting several other important people and I want to requote him now that no man is an island we draw strength from each other we all rely on each other respect each other even our differences because we know we are stronger together and we we all are part of a team here all of us who serve on these citizen advisory committees you have heard from Melissa Lamers Jessica gal Jack seret who all serve on inra with me I have been honored to serve on this committee for a year and a half and we do take our our work on this committee seriously we show up these are long meetings they are intense um I do wear a particular hat on this committee and do find myself sometimes bringing a more extreme perspective to the committee just to play that role I don't play that role everywhere I go but what I have found in the in the 18 months that we have been meeting is that we have all grown to respect each other to actually create friendships where wow that's a person I didn't start out liking and now I think he's pretty cool um we have learned from each other we have we have grown as individuals and as a committee and we are doing important work for you for for you we are doing the work that simplifies and streamlines our ordinances to make it easier not harder for our developers for our homeowners for our land owners to actually get work done and protect the environment in the process we are looking at some of the M the changing Trends in in development like low impact development we are looking at the current trends in climate to see how the county needs to respond to that this is hard stuff it's really hard stuff but we are doing this work and we appreciate the support that you've given so far we work for free we have no budget as a committee we appreciate the staff time that is invested in supporting our work and I would really appreciate um your continued support in it so we can help you make good decisions thank you Nancy lden Norman thank you good morning I'm Nancy lden Norman executive director at Atlantic Center for the Arts in new samna beach where I have served for 28 years I want to thank you for your time today I also would like to recognize the cultural Council I know many of the members who are here and thank them for their work for the questions that you ask during our grant reviews for making us uh better organizations and for your support um today I just want to briefly bring up something that's could be an unintended consequence if the cultural Council was to be dissolved and that is that valua County would lose its status as a local Arts agency as many of you know Robert red is our staff support person we appreciate the work that he does next month Atlantic Center for the Arts for the third time has been selected by the Department of State Division of cultural Affairs as the workshop Retreat space for local Arts agencies from around the state if we lose our designation as a local Arts agency I doubt that's going to happen this um meeting next month gives the opportunity for all of our nonprofit cultural organizations to have FaceTime with those in leadership positions from the division of cultural Affairs in addition we could also lose our license plate money which has been used to fund many seed projects for organizations here so I just wanted to bring those two things up you will all be receiving an invitation to uh meet with the folks from the state and I look forward to seeing you all there thank you for your time Cameron Vincent followed by uh Julie Julio followed by Lloyd I didn't think he were were here today Lord Bowers good morning Council staf my name is Cameron venson I'm executive director of art house foundation I'm a member of the board of directors of alua County cultural Alliance and I sit on the echo Gallery advisory committee I come to you today to not reiterate what many of my colleagues have done such a beautiful job to advocate for us but to give you the numbers because you're men of numbers correct correct you have to be starting off the valua County website under the advisory boards and committee's Page States citizen participation is vital to a democratic government the county of aluah recognizes the unique contributions made by volunteers and encourages involvement and interest in the policy-making process through Service as an advisory board member the definition a county Advisory Board is created by ordinance resolution and Florida Statutes to provide advice and recommendations to the valui County Council on diverse matters of public concern on average our advisory committees we have over 33 of them with 274 participants on average about 40 hours a year that breaks if we just do half of that that breaks down to about 38 3,400 hours a year that's 500 hours a year for you to dread from your busy schedule to try to create that personal connection with our community and their voice I would like to remind you these advisory committees are volunteers with expertise in their fields I'm going to pull an example from the cultural Council which is an advisory committee you've heard a lot about it today but I'm going to give you the numbers 2022 the blui county cultural Grant roughly 80 to 90 Pages was able to quantitatively bring up figures so that we could give you a return on investment infograph 2% of the general budget. 2% of the general budget was utilized on the cultural Grant it's an important number the money invested into the cultural programs in this County that apply for that Grant turned out a return on investment of 6.68% that is unheard of for those of you who need it that's an investment gain of $978,000 for less than $2 a year per household 48% of all adults not children just adults of lja County attended cultural events in 2022 I took all of this information generated from that extensive grant that the cultural Council puts together to deem whether we are worthy of that County's money this is just one example 33 advisory committees that you have working for you to benefit you thank you thank [Music] you Julie Julie trillo followed by Lloyd Bowers followed by Chris Kemp good morning gentlemen I will be brief as most of my colleagues have covered a lot of these points but I am Julia trillo I am a native of Daytona Beach Florida born and raised um I am also a former member of the cultural Council so I know what kind of work is involved I'm currently the vice president of the Lui County cultural Alliance which as you know is a nonprofit on its own feet uh that advocates for arts and culture in the County the cultural council is just one of these very valuable assets that you have in case you don't know when the cultural Council receives these lengthy grants they re each member must read the hundreds of pages involved interact with the applicants at the public meeting score the applications and work as the public face your public face in the Arts Community um that requires about somewhere between 40 and 60 hours per member just for the grant reading process highest and lowest scores are removed the grants are averaged and that way the funds are allocated by staff and approved by you so there's no grandstanding there's no favorites they fill in the forms the what they do is ranked scored and averaged so I just want to make that clear because I think there's a feeling that some people get better treatment than others in this process they don't I also want to point out that there's a in that volunteer time those 60 hours it's about $1,700 per person using the states the U the average cost of a volunteer hour a lot of these guys and women are professionals their rates are considerably higher than that so 122,000 is dollars a year just from cultural Council in kind gift multiply that by the number of boards you have a lot of value coming to the county from those those volunteers in closing I just want to say like the other speakers I hope you will retain all of the advisory boards please take the time to make them better I hope you will but don't throw the baby out with the bath water thank you Lloyd Bowers followed by Chris Kemp followed by uh Steve tones chairman Brower members of the council I'm appreciate this time I have am not going to go through what everyone else has already said because obviously you've heard a lot heard a lot from us last year uh I have been on the council cultural Council for over 12 Years first appointed by Josh Wagner which shows you how long that goes and currently I serve at councilman reinhardt's pleasure on this following last year when we were here and had this great discussion I had the opportunity to meet with chairman Brower and we talked about many things and many conception and misconceptions about about the grant process itself and I recommended to him at that time that we have a workshop the cultural Council and this Council so that we can address all of your questions your concerns see if improvements need to be made see if changing need to be made and go from there that is in the process the cultural council at their last special meeting adopted a resolution uh setting up that Workshop I spoke with chairman Brower yesterday and he confirmed that he was aware of that so we are going to be talking with you to see if there are ways we can improve that in a public forum however we are already way behind the eightball for the second year in a row in reviewing these Grant applications and even receiving the grant applications before an entity can file a grant uh with the cultural Council for consideration they must attended one of two mandatory workshops to discuss the grant process qualification how it works and the timeline that was scheduled for January we're already in March if we're going to meet the work that we do we need you to give us some guidance today that we're okay for this year and that's the main thing I need to know from you and that the other people need to know from you I and I noticed that George papis came in he's the current Council chair I'm sure he's going to have something to say as well but that's my primary concern we want to do the work for you Julia terill was right it takes us about 40 to 60 hours and I will defer to chair to councilman Dempsey to understand what a lawyer charges and how much that 40 to 60 hours that takes of my time and of George Papa's time every year to do that but we enjoy doing that because we see the need we see the support of the community and we see the effect the positive effect it has on this community so please give us some guidance today that we're okay to go forward this year thank you CH Chris Kemp followed by uh Steve tonas followed by Susie peace pardon me okay uh Steve did Steve have to leave T Steve is here and Susie if you want to come take a seat at the front followed by Doug Bishop sorry I had to take a temporary leave um Okay I uh oh my name is Steve tones I live in the land in Mr Dempsey's District um I am uh speaking today for the flooding Committee of Faith um and I brought some uh words of profound wisdom but there's really nothing I need to add to what's been said already so I'll just point out that uh I walk funny because my toes aren't getting signals from my brain excuse me the uh means of communication the nerves have been damaged advisory boards are like those nerves and irreplaceable means of communication and coordination between the citizens and the council uh we need to keep them otherwise we're going to walk [Applause] funny Susie peace hello hello uh thank you for giving us this opportunity to speak our minds uh my name is Susie peace I live in Delan for 30 years and uh this is uh I feel like a Deja Vu I feel like we have to defend ourselves for arts and environment on a regular basis here and I don't really understand why um as all these people have said today uh there's no reason to do away with these boards uh to examine them is fine why don't you visit them and uh visit the theater and visit the inra meeting and see what's going on uh as Pat says I I don't want to see you break the faith the Faith with your constituents with your citizens uh the definition of constituent is being part of a whole um I think you should trust us we got you elected we're voters um I wanted to P end with one quote from clay Henderson when he heard about this uh reaction again the doubt that that you're having with our with citizens advisory boards he said um I hate watching these people with no institutional memory trying to dismantle good projects we developed over time which continue to have broad public support thank you Doug Bishop followed by Donna Craig and George papus you will be the cleanup guy hi my name is Doug Bishop and I'm representing myself and my wife Kelly grounds who happens to be out of state uh we live in Orange City uh my wife is a board member for the Little Theater of new smna beach and I'm a former professional lighting and Scenic designer um we are asking you to reject item number two and I had a whole long speech timed everything it's been said um I could go over it and over it the numbers are the numbers um the one thing I would like to um add into to this is um trying to merge or dissolve the cultural Council a year after making an attempt to defund the same program is unacceptable um it makes it feel like after being told no someone is trying again at one level higher as a voter that hits me so I would urge everyone to vote this year get your voices heard um any notion of cutting funding for the Arts under the guise of being fiscally responsible um is in essence a disregard for the economic well-being of our community so that's all I need to say thank you very much appreciate [Applause] it Donna Craig and then the last speaker will be George pavis good morning my name is Don on a Craig I live in Orman by the Sea um although I'm a member of the plrc I'm here speaking as a private citizen um and it's I'm encouraged to see the number of people who have been standing up uh to speak on these issues today I've heard a lot of support for the Arts which is certainly very important um it's one of the sexiest things that you people can work on and uh I think that a lot of people feel like it's it that makes it all the more important um one of my uh guiding principles in my life has come from an old boss of mine who I resented at the time when he said just because we can do something doesn't mean we should I learned in the years that I worked for him how important that was just because we can do something doesn't mean that we should the staff has made some recommendations and my my um experience with the staff is that there are a hardworking group of people who who are are even handed in their uh presentations and in their considerations for the different issues I respect what they have to say I also think that they that they should include in their um report just because we can doesn't mean we should um the pdrc for instance serves in my opinion a very important advisory uh group uh bringing to the council important uh considerations and recommendations on certain issues uh having to do with variances in the county um we listen to not just the applicants but also the people who are immediately uh affected by the decisions that are made on the board um to me it's the individuals who are affected by these decisions whose voices speak the loudest to bring things to the attention of the board that we might not otherwise um know about or consider um so I think the the input of the citizens is important in cons in considering uh what goes on by all of the boards and I hope that you will retain all of the boards because the citizen voices speak loudly and um in an informed way that you would not necessarily have so thank you very much George papis thank you um George papis I'm chair of the cultural Council of f County today as we speak and um I also was born and raised in this area and ironically Donna Donna and I went to kindergarten on up through school anyway um I'm here to speak about the cultural Council I I I have a feeling Sometimes some people think we're just handing out packets of money which is not how it works at all to to be able to apply you've had to be an organization for two years you've had you have to be nonprofit you have to have be a have a board of directors you have to um reach out to the community every single one of our grants has an portion of the grant that talks about what you do in the community these grants extremely um detailed extremely detailed uh we get about 31 a year I guess something like that I've been on the committee for I don't know eight years or so and um I spend when I get them I spend one Grant per day at the end of my workday um looking them over studying them and spend about an hour and a half to two hours on each one on weekends I might do three and that's a time I put in to make sure that um we are doing our fiduciary duty for the money we're giving out to make sure that we are protecting our taxpayers monies and it's around little over 600,000 that we give out and I want to give you um my glasses right here the Americans for the Arts um along along with the Florida Division of cultural Affairs did a study for fuchia County in 2022 and they were as follows $ 177 million in spending by Arts and Cultural organizations and an additional $ 31.3 million in event related expenditures by their audiences the ACT economic activity supported 945 jobs provided $ 31.2 million in personal income to Residents and generated $9.8 million in tax revenue to local state and federal governments not a bad return on on the money spent I don't I don't think um this what we the grants provide is operational expenses that's it and some of the smaller organizations might not be able to open their doors because they won't have enough money to have an event come and that and and the larger organizations even even the Museum of Arts and Sciences I mean they're not going to get hit bad but they might have to get rid of of a uh of an employee for example that they need they might have to divert those funds so they don't bring in the megadon they might bring in the Micron so I I I I I I hope and I agree with everybody here I got and I apologize for getting here late I was in court so I I I listen to judges first anyway thank you very much and I I hope you listen to everybody about the other advisory boards and I hope we stay a viable board with the grants to keep the Arts going in this community it's it's a wonderful thing for this community thank you very much I appreciate it thank you thank you all uh for coming in some of you need to consider running for office Mr chair it's always yes ma'am I apologize but I'd like to take this opportunity to note that there are currently three vacancies on the cultural Council so we do have it up on the screen where all of these lovely individuals can apply they would need need to live on the west side in District 4 or in District 5 in order to serve but those are all vacancies that are currently on the cultural Council they would click on that big green apply Now button and it can be signed electronically and everything and that was K green you hear me mention all the time Karissa green her email address you're going to hate me is K green.org and she can help you if you but that's pretty self thank you for that timely announcement um rather than uh go through every one of them here I'll just ask the council if there are there specific U specific boards that you would like to talk about um David Santiago thank you Mr chairman um I'll first list the ones that I think that I'd like to talk about and in here my colleagues have to say um that certainly give my indiv idual comments um I think we should consider discussion after um talking to staff and getting some historical perspective uh on this the library Advisory Board we should have some discussions on also I think we should have some discussion on the code enforcement board um particularly because of the struggles we've had uh in obtaining volunteers to properly facilitate that board possibly consider a special magistrate as other many other uh government entities have looked looked at to streamline that service and make sure we're providing the proper service because I think it's struggling now um I think conversation that I'd like to have specifically around enra um and and it's uh it tasks and maybe I have some ideas on things that we can have them work on um and um I if I may Mr chairman I I want to make some comments of my evolve ment on the cultural outs excuse me Cultural Arts Council um and um my my my journey uh regarding Arts uh and and a few other things but particularly the Arts Council and the impact it has in our community has evolved over the last year or so um I want to thank the conversations I've had with many people um uh on various levels um and what was what was most impacting to me uh in that Journey because I made it clear that I didn't have all the answers so I think the drive that we got here was is is important for me as a policy maker and a budget approver uh because the p the historical perspective was the one that really hit me the best uh and and then tying that with the economic impact that it has it it was very moving for me so um uh I'm actually turned into I guess you could have said a Critic I'll take that that that label originally um uh not necessarily that I didn't think the program had problems with I think somebody had mentioned a comment that um the way you awarded or was was was being questioned it never was questioned for me um uh to me it was what do we need these programs and what the impact is um that certainly um changed my position um so much so that I I I think I made a comment um in this Council I think there was support from the my my colleagues was how do we find ways to enhance it and bring new entrance into participating in the program the Chairman's here um I made that comment probably like three months ago I think or two two months ago and I was particularly focused on finding ways to allow uh other entities that may not have the sophistication or the SK skill set or or capabilities to enter the program and lift them up so I I'd like to as we discussed this with my colleagues is maybe Tas that board to saying you know how do we enhance that program with with a with a premise of uh encouraging new participants in that so um and I'll just add this Mr chair and then we'll go from there uh on regarding enra the reason I want to discuss enra um my historical perspective Ive on that was when the board was created um they were tasked with some specific areas that we wanted them to look at and come up with some recommendations to to the council that was the original um Council that that did that um I think we're a year and a half in or a little bit longer somewhere into that i' I'd like to find a way that we can guide that board to maybe wrap up that work um sometimes a little pressure will help get them to where they need to to be um however um over the last week for me um re-evaluating storm watert issues around storm watert and the topic in the conversation and the heated discussions around storm water um have have have brought me to consider maybe we can task and redirect enra um with a specific task and you know one of the questions I had in our last committee meeting I asked about the standards that are being applied for development and Clay did a great job of clarifying that and I'm open to looking at other methodologies or Technologies to implement to avoid any flooding if we can right we can't predict all storms but I'm open to saying how do we bring valua County to a standard that is is is viable that's the key I don't have the answers I'm not an engineer um I know we have some good professionals that that serve on enra um so I as an individual council member I I would like to repurpose um get them to wrap up what they're doing with a time frame but repurpose them probably with one of the potentially biggest priorities U when it comes to development how do we handle a storm mortar um and for us to implement something possibly in the future that it's feasible um I I'm I'm a if youve followed me over the years I I like to follow the the rule of law so as long as the rules are are printed for everyone I like to apply them to everyone equally we should look at them and possibly re-enhance them thank you Mr chair Matt Reinhardt thank you Mr chair I would have hit mine first but David beat me to it so um I'm going to make mine very brief uh I appreciate the fact that I may have to leave um I have an emergency situation with my daughter so um I may have to believe she's at Halifax right now what I did want to bring up uh with respect to the cultural Council I think I've answered numerous emails with where I feel about this particular topic uh was in support wholeheartedly last time continue to be support and will continue to be in support of this um I was uh I shared a story last year um in my former career I won't even mention I think you guys know where is that right I'm not sure anyways uh we had an inmate that we discovered had a talent that was UNT tapped into and uh we use that Ma to decorate a wall and that was my first experience with seeing what what capable what capabilities people have out there that are unted and with what the cultural Council has out there more involvement needs to be had and um chissa thank you for sharing that because uh there's a lot of people here in support of it and they continue that support and I will advocate for that support with uh fortunately we don't have anybody in District 2 that was needed right see um also um that being said uh just where I stand so that's out there I was really taken with uh the young lady summer is she still here so I was really taken with that that you know you made me think of uh my situation right now so good job on that and Well Done um I have to agree um code enforcement I I served on the code enforcement board for the city of Daytona Beach and work code enforcement for new samna after I left correction so I see the um benefit of having a uh special magistrate handle those issues I can tell you right now and I know that uh some of the colleagues that I had on the code enforcement board in the city of Daytona they do a very great job they do and it works there it really does um they don't have an issue from my understanding with finding individuals to fill that so I commend them for that uh I was very eager to do that um we didn't have an issue in new samna so I commend uh your area Mr Robins because they're very active in that but I will tell you that the majority of the cases got forwarded on to the special magistrate so if we're having that issue that warrants a discussion I think so that we need to talk about that um the enra I I'm in support of that as well I mean we're just getting started but I agree with what you said Mr Santiago with respect um I like updates I'm I'm I like that I like knowing where they're at it can we redirect them to focus on an issue that's currently at hand right now with respect to flooding because that is a that is an issue we're on the backside of two very powerful storms that hit us and it's not if it's going to hit us again it's when it's going to hit us again and uh so we need to pay special attention to that because that's going to be an issue and is an issue every time so um I'd like more discussion about that um Library advisory um I'd like to hear more about that you know I agree that was on my list of things to discuss as well um I do have an individual that's very that's in my district that I appointed that board that's very passionate about that um I noticed one gentleman is not here right now that's very passionate about that uh so I'd like to hear about that more before we make that decision so with respect to that so other than that I'm in with you I'd like to talk about um code enforcement Library advisory um and to see what can be done with respect to what we can hear on an update basis with uh about enra so I have to agree thank you Mr chair Jake Johansson thank you chairman um I have a few comments but first uh I'll tell you the the ones that I think need to be looked at I too believe the uh Library board code enforcement going to special magistrate um I'd like to look at the Housing Finance board see if there's uh any slop there that can be adjusted the firefighter uh volunteer firefighter pension board whatever we call that um Animal Control uh and the uh business incubator Advisory board if we can adjust that at all if you look um most of those folks are kind of Staff um uh and and maybe we can work on that uh a couple of General comments um you've heard me many times and I know St memb is going to kick me in The Shins about this but I'm a less government kind of guy and I find advisory boards to be an extension of government and therefore very bureaucratically hard to manage um advisory boards by and large shouldn't be talking about issues that that they talk about in the board outside the board so let me take for instance because I had a lot of conversations the uh the enra uh board uh Dr Wendy Anderson who works at Stanford or Stanford ston uh and and Miss Lamers who's the board chair technically can't get together for a couple of coffee and have a very good strong conversation about the way ahead for flooding that that is off limits what size trees we ought to keep what size trees we can cut they can't have a cup of coffee and talk about that they can't talk about sea level rise they can't talk about climate change they can't talk about anything that may come up for a vote in the future that severely restricts two of the many smart individual people on that board from collaborating not to mention the the the the rest of the folks that's just two so do I want the NRA yes do I have problems with advisory councils being restricted on what they can do and and how flexible they can be I do um I want to share with you one thing we have obviously a contentious issue up in Orman um with a uh fuel distribution place there is no fuel distribution or I2 uh advis board to tell us what to do yet those people came out in force and and shared with us their thoughts outside of an Advisory Board they went and had coffee together they got their act together they got a lot of information and they presented it to us so there's a case where no Advisory Board was very instrumental very influential in getting our attention so I don't want advisory boards for the sake of advisory boards but I do understand that our community has a voice in a lot of these things um and and there's there's a few folks that mentioned that we ought to uh uh strike down item two but item two is not just about the board you're on item two is about a list of about 20 boards some of which need to be changed so realize item two although all encompassing there are some good points in there that need to be addressed and identified and maybe uh made a a little more flexible and a little more actionable um uh I know the enra gives us an annual report um I'd like to hear from those people more often too and it sounds like I'm going to hear from now on now that I've established some lines of communic iation U that I'll take part in so uh I appreciate everybody's comments uh I think you'll find that I'm a man that that works more on reason than passion but there was a lot of reason and the passion that you shared today and I'll be taking that all into account thank you very much Don Dempsey yeah let me start off by saying that I'm in favor of retaining these advisory boards I think I agree with the majority of the people that spoke today that basically has said that these are citizen volunteers and I think it's good to have these boards because if you want to get involved in your community on a certain subject matter I think it's good to have a board that maybe addresses your concerns and you could go to that board give your input and I think make a collective uh advice or advisories uh to give us I just think the more sources of information we could get on a subject matter uh is great um I understand understand what you're saying Jake but I mean just having 800 people here on one issue it might be better to have them go through an Advisory Board of some sort and give a collective you know some sort of collective uh bit of advice as opposed to just everybody coming in not knowing where to channel their concerns and their information except directly to us so I I'm in favor of keeping all these boards and um just to I I guess there's a lot of fear in the room about getting rid of cultural arts funding I mean it is deja vu the quote Lloyd um but just want to remind you in the young lady from Athens I I ran a I ran a comedy club here for six years okay it was a replica of the Gotham Comedy Club now I believe we all agreed last time we were here that standup comedy is a form of the Arts in fact I think George's son as he was trying to get into standup comedy perform there on a few times so I have a huge interest in the cultural arts especially stand-up comedy we had the Improv does the Funniest Comic in Florida competition they have all the improvs that they judge these contestants on and one other club that they chose was Art my club in Delan this was back from 2009 to 2015 then I had kids I had to close down because I didn't have time like Lloyd says I have very limited time so I couldn't be there at the club two nights a week but I just I just want you to know that I'm not some some evil guy that doesn't like the Arts because I put my money where my mouth was and my time I I lost thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars on that club only because I like standup comedy and I wanted to bring something to the community so to sit here and say that I don't have an appreciation for it I I mean is misguided and to quote Pat Nory she said she quoted no man is an island but I to quote a comic that came through our club no man is an island but I'm a peninsula and I lost money probably over $100,000 I lost in the six seven years because I liked standup comedy so much but I never once thought to even ask these guys to help kick in or I never thought of taxpayers having to kick in to support my passion I'm I'm I'm learning that it's a part of the community but and I understand that these things can't all be run without government assistance so I am sympathetic to the need like kind of like David I I've have grown to appreciate the Arts I understand that the land is a mecca for the cultural arts and I'd like to keep it going so I just don't want to be checked off as somebody who's um unappreciative of what you guys do I think Cultural Arts is a critical part of our community and I'm in support of it okay so that's all thanks guys Choy Kent thank you chairman just a few brief comments first of all to Carissa green I love that the chairman gave you the latitude for the commercial you did the timing was perfect and I just wanted you to know I I thought it was great that being said councilman Dempsey not that you need anybody to stand up for you and I love what you just shared really do because um and I'll get to those comments that I have in in just a moment but our advisory boards do hard work to help us make the best educated decision that we can and I cherish the hard work and volunteerism and spirit that all of those individuals and the boards collectively put in into to help our community that being said councilman Santiago and and Reinhardt and Johansson I I think it's totally appropriate to have a healthy discussion and look at these boards that you gentlemen mentioned and and talk about them and see if things can be made better that's not a bad thing it's it's a healthy exercise and I'm glad that we're doing it I wasn't put on blast and I don't mind sharing this unfortunately I've never been to the new samna Playhouse I hope to get there one day soon the Daytona Playhouse I just want to tell you all in the three and a half minutes that I have left a few years back I took my wife and son to a show right before Halloween it was a radio show and it mentioned in there that it was preferred if you would dress up I had my my son and wife where they wore masks of their choosing and I had actual makeup paint on my face I was Count Dracula during this radio show where's the pictures well I have I have pictures and and the interesting thing about this was it was packed and there were five people dressed up and myself and my wife and son were three of the five but there was only one that had makeup on his face that couldn't take the mask off and at times we giggled because I thought I looked like Count Dracula but others might have said Uncle Fester from The Adams Family with you know the the white on my face it was a great moment that the Kent family has locked in our brains and then the Athens the Athens theater you know I live in Orman Beach I I don't get over to D land nearly as much as I'd like to but I've bragged about this town but I took my family to the Christmas story um play because we we love live performances and I wanted to see if Ralphie was going to shoot his eye out and you know we have a leg lamp at our house that goes up every December 1st and comes down on December 31st in our front picture window that's how serious we are about it I recently took not only my family but my mother and father to see misery because I wanted to see Paul Sheldon and Annie wils go at it and it was it was a great show the reason I bring that up is I was going to talk about Don Dempsey and what he did in this town because I didn't know I didn't know Don before this election I didn't know Jake I didn't know Danny I didn't know Matt and I didn't know our chairman the only one I knew was David Santiago because he brought home the bacon and great things for valua County when he served eight years in the state legislature representing Delona but you helped many cities so you're the only one that I knew and my heart was Heavy when someone decided to put several members on blast about what they attended or what they didn't attend I wish that wouldn't have have happened free will do what we want um they she can put me on blast for attending two events there regardless I I love the place in fact my notes that I had were that it's a wonderful quaint first class venue and I'm talking about the Athens theater I just think the way of getting there and and calling people out not my style I wouldn't have done it but publicly because I didn't know you and I learned this sitting up here on the deis with you that you opened that comedy club in downtown D land and you put your money where your mouth was and you didn't ask for any assistance and for for that publicly I say thank you sir Danny Robbins thank you chair uh real quick Troy I'm trying to picture you with with the face paint I've got the picture Okay um listen Cultural Arts uh identifies communities I won't get into everything that that everybody said I I think it's all been set already um and I I definitely think it's worth uh keeping um not just for now but but for a very long time uh with that being said um councilman Santiago and Johansson uh made some excellent points uh my focus was uh enra and really getting our message through uh to the members of enra in terms of our goals you know we had a goal setting uh session and I'd like to make sure that we definitely transmit those goals to enra that way we're working in the same direction uh for the betterment of this Comm community and as well uh you know our staff uh put in a lot of time on top of uh the volunteers uh for that board like like every board I just want to make sure we're working uh together and on the same page and uh not against each other but going in the right direction uh other than that everything else has been said thanks okay I want to make sure that I have um all the all the boards that have been brought up I've got the uh for discussion Library board Animal Control Board code enforcement board and edra um Cultural Arts Volunteer Fire fund was that one that you brought up Mr Johansson who brought it up I thought three or four people did to discuss no okay well Mr chairman I I think to bring to Clarity I think the chairman is is partially right on that um I think I had suggested the possibility about discussing how we can um uh task them with looking into uh how we can uh enhance their program to allow for more entrance um to enter into being participating in the program that's what I had said so yes Volunteer Fire fund and the business incubator Advisory Board was there anything that I missed that anyone wanted to disc discuss okay I do believe Mr Johansson also wanted to discuss the Housing Finance Authority okay then we'll we'll take each uh one of those um and I'll I'll reserve my comments for when we get to the particular boards um uh David Santiago thank you Mr chairman I'm going to try to take a jab at it for for time purposes and maybe take on the easier ones for first um I think many of us have heard regarding the code enforcement board the struggles that they're having there with getting people to participate uh and apply our code accordingly um staff had talked about the possibilities of bringing a u special magistrate to facilitate that um I'll start with a motion Mr chair I move that we direct staff to come back to the council with the necessary uh uh resolution or ordinances or whatever they need to implement a special magistrate in place of the current process second Johansson okay we have a motion by David Santiago uh to move to a special magistrate um seconded by Jak Johansson um do you have a comment Mr attorney uh no sir you're just here for questions okay um uh I see Jake and Don up is that to discuss this okay Jake go ahead thank you chairman uh just so you know where I come from on this um uh when I was a city manager in Port Orange we moved from a code enforcement to a special magistrate for this very reason and uh uh in in my research uh the past couple weeks um a majority of our counties and many of our cities um have a special magistrate uh some have both um uh and and a few have have what we have just the the code enforcement board um I I feel that although we have to pay for a special magistrate um uh it it adds an another layer of impartiality to the code enforcement case is um uh usually a lawyer or a retired judge or somebody who who is not as tied to the uh uh to the elected officials as maybe are appointed code enforcement people are if we can even appoint them so I I strongly believe that the the special uh magistrate is the the way to move forward here uh I appreciate the time Don Dempsey yeah the only are we talking about making a vote to actually switch to special magistrates now or are we asking staff to come back with an evaluation back staff would have to bring it back right okay because I still would like to know how the appell at review standards of the code enforcement board versus a magistrate would be different and how a person could seek they would um the Appel review standrew would remain the same um Florida Statutes provides an appeal to Circuit Court of decisions of your code board or your magistrate um state law requires the code board to have an attorney which you do have in place so from a cost standpoint I don't see a huge difference because you're already paying for the attorney and who who also serves as a special magistrate for the county and some other areas that you've already prior councils have designated such as dangerous dog hearings and Beast trespass appeals so I don't think it would change the U uh the review process at all it would be just a hearing officer instead of a cboard making that decision which would be subject to appeal okay but what we're voting on now is to have staff come back and that's right we bring back an agenda item with a proposed ordinance for you to consider okay all right thanks is that you're done Don yes um um I I think that that we've Jake has a motion to send it to staff to bring back an ordinance I think this does need a lot of discussion and I think that's probably the way to do it and then we we can vote on it then instead of um um running through it all right now there's a lot of considerations I'm I'm I'm not happy with the code enforcement board process that doesn't mean I'm unhappy with of the people it's just it's a cumbersome process for our um residents to deal with um I would like to see it improved I'm not sure if this is if that's the best way or not so we need to hear about it so I'm I'm uh um I think it's a good idea to give it to staff to bring back and give us more information I would like to ask staff just one question on that board uh did I learn yesterday that that's the only board that gets a um a stien I don't need to defer to Clay on that good morning Claire I'm director of growth and Resource Management have other boards such as the construction licensing contractor appeal board which also gets a stien it I I would like to we don't have to do it right now but when it comes back to um know how much that is cuz one of the things we're considering is is cost will have to pay a special magistrate they're not cheap but we do have expenses now in in staff time attorneys time um and this stien because it it's a very active board and it takes a lot of time for people so I think putting the putting the stip in the side I I think you know uh it's probably a wash in the sense that you're paying an attorney now to sit there you have the attorney be your hearing officer except from a standpoint aside from the stip in which is a valid point um I I don't don't expect much of a change there okay well we we'll discuss it when it comes back if I don't see it uh David afterward no okay let's take a vote on this if you want to send this to a staff to come back with u an ordinance language to switch from the board to a special magistrate um all in favor say I I I opposed and that carries 7 to zero and David Santiago for another motion thank you Mr chair yeah and I'm going to take this one on next I think it' probably be easier because I know there may be a lot of people sitting in the audience they might want to go to lunch instead so regarding the cultural arts um U Council um I think it's been said that the count the council is supportive of it including myself however I just wanted to I I I move that we instruct staff to get with that board um and task them along with all the additional stuff that they do and thank you to come up with recommendations for the council to consider on potentially ways that we can enhance the program which would include uh a a focus on how we can potentially bring new entrance Second Joe Hanson okay the motion is made by David Santiago second by uh Jake Johansson to instruct staff to communicate with the board and I have a a question about that that's already in process isn't it that you're communicating with that board and you're you're setting up a a workshop yes we had a we've already had a meeting several meetings actually I had one specifically with Mr papis and his folks and uh we went over some of these very desires you're talking about uh and I believe they're working on uh that very thing how to increase uh um people that would be eligible uh you guys have talked about uh maybe a system of uh some coming on and some coming off uh so that is being uh worked on today I do have a question as we because that is a little bit of a process uh would it be the council's desire to uh under the current method go ahead and distribute the way they normally do with their applications while we work this out and the goal being for the next cycle because I'm I'm getting concerned for some of them uh that need the money and you and you have heard today that uh uh you know they're on thin margins so they need to get that cycle going yeah Mr chair if I could I think I could probably even just withdraw the motion um because it's not necessary if you're already working on it I don't want to create a motion so I withdraw the motion and as far as I'm concerned business as usual for the for the board okay I I would agree with that Jake you made a second okay anybody opposed to uh continuing to process this cycle no okay um I think that's good it's already in motion with staff and the board and so you all can go and and do business as usual and um we'll look forward to meeting with you thanks for coming in I didn't think you were coming today you got out of court okay and I just have one of my last ones Mr chair all right go ahead um thank you Mr chair I think I had mentioned uh enra and maybe one or two other colleagues um I um I'd like to for us to consider um through staff guiding um the NRA board to work with staff and kind of uh maybe sum up some of the work that they've been working on uh for for a year and a half and I get it they're very difficult topics um they're handling probably a lot more than could be done in the time frame but more so um instruct those uh individuals to focus on storm mortar and how the county can enhance its storm mortar uh development um requirements um in in a smart way so I I'll just say this Mr I just want to make the statement um I moved to instruct staff to get with the enra board to redirect the enra committee to focus on storm water uh enhancements uh suggestions for the County Council okay we have a motion by David Santiago to um uh direct the enra committee to include discussions on storm water um I me to prioritize it I want it to be their priority Focus okay to make that there a priority is there a second on that second Johansson and the second is made by Jake Johansson is ginger still in the house can you give us a a quick update on um I don't know if anybody I've attended several uh enra meetings and um you you have a full plate you have a lot of things that you're dealing with is storm water part of it now or is that something that you need to add and um Ginger air Environmental Management director uh we've been working on a suite of issues that were tasked by the prior Council that established the committee storm water is on that list um in fact one of our priorities was low impact development which is of course a storm water issue um that came before you and you you voted on that um sta is now working on the low impact audit tool that you directed us to do that work will come back to enra ultimately to you so that's storm water related specifically the storm water code that we have right now is on the list but it was further back in the list of priorities there's no reason we can't change that list of priorities right so we we absolutely can do that I think we have one more meeting tomorrow dealing with the tree ordinance um it it would be probably really great for the committee to wrap that up at tomorrow's meeting and then our next meeting we mean once a month um we could um jump into the storm water with the um folks from our development engineering team obviously I'm seeing members of the of the committee all nodding their head so I think the uh your motion is is appropriate to make that a priority um uh any more discussion on on this Danny Robbins thank you chair uh councilman Santiago would you be open to adding uh to your motion or or modifying it um like we heard from a constituent out here today easier processes right simplifying uh the process and possibly eliminating codes and reducing just in line with the direction that this Council I believe as a whole in terms of reducing this this bureaucracy and some of this I just want to make sure you know we're we're all less less less less less and I haven't seen anything less less less come from the board that's why I'm raising it it's all been more more more so would you be open to exploring some of those um other avenues may I comment thank you Mr chair you know I think Danny that's that's valid right um I'll just speak for for myself I I'd like the board to explore all options including that right so you know if you recall going back again to our last meeting there was a lot of discussion on the code and how does the code storm water code affect uh different uh um storm events I want them to look at that and find reasonable methodologies or new technology that's reasonable right we can't overprice the market I'll just say that but things that maybe valua can be a Pioneer a reasonable Pioneer to address some of these things in the future I don't have those answers some of those I I understand that this board has a very well balanced approach um and I hope that individuals from all of those approaches are are are are reasonable um and come forward with some suggestions at the end of the day we decide right um what we want to implement but I don't want to leave it that issue uh untouched because of the sensitivity and the urgency that's why I made this suggestion so yes I'm open to it you're you're right and I I agree with everything you said I just if we don't include it then yep yeah I think or I can make a separate motion which would be pointless I I think the message is there I think we can include it we have a motion to reset priorities to make uh storm water management a priority and if the committee would look at not only adding regulations is is there something that we can are the regulations that we can uh do without I think that's also a that's going to be a key factor for me in the code enforcement board discussion what regulations that we've laid on people that um that we could you know one of our goals I think as a council is to bring more business um into vucha County and sometimes we they feel like they're being run off by the amount of regulations that we put down them so that's going to go for me on Code Enforcement board as well can I add one thing Mr chair you can um and and I think the important piece here is I I've talked to um people on several sides of this including development industry um that often times has to absorb regulations that we Implement um I think we'll find more interestingly if we include them or invite them if even if they're not a board member to participate you will probably find a lot more consensus in the development industry if you include them in the discussions just because they're not a board member um they they shouldn't be so um we have to have dialogue uh that's re that's reasonable and suggestions that are reasonable and Implement those and apply those to everyone equally that's kind of my theme thank and David just so you know I'm not laughing at you I'm smiling at the attorneys in the room who are all nodding when you said that uh Jake Johansson um we we're talking about flooding and we're talking about urgency we're talking about sensitivity every council meeting we have somebody come up and tell us about their property flooding and and we're going to make it a a priority for The enra Who meets monthly and we've invited people from smart people from from that advisory committee to meet once a month for 3 hours to come up with ways to cure our urgent problem this is what I'm talking about with advisory boards we we have no better way to do it right now so give it to the advisory board but if you allow these people outside the sunshine to collaborate you could get it done a whole lot quicker so when you're wondering why the government's so slow it's because we just gave a very important issue to you all to an advisory committee that meets once a month they do great work 12 times a year I urge you all to consider taking a more flexible and collaborative approach to getting things like this done the tree ordinance let them grow figure it out flooding probably not if we want to solve that problem in the next three years we we got to have a a more flexible uh agile approach to it that's all I have to say thank you David Santiago good point Jake I I I agree with you on the timing but is there anything that prevents us from the board meeting more often if we can get aquarum uh clay or Ginger I maybe maybe they can meet twice a month that's all clay irvan director of growth and resource it's a matter of maintaining a quorum and being able that these volunteers being able to attend two meetings a month it's well and also just just to be very honest the workload on staff and preparing for that as well yeah and and you know maintaining a quorum is is up to them right that defended making sure we have these committees in place so uh the viability and the success of it is is dependent on the the volunteers so I I I would be okay if you know if staff can coordinate meeting more often yes there is Staff time that is incorporated and I I think the flooding issue is an important one right and working with staff to come up with some recommendations I'm open to it I don't have the answers I need suggestions from others I would I would just add to that that um there's also nothing that prevents us from going to their meetings and listening to what's being discussed and for any Committee Member to set up a meeting with any council member and tell us things that you there's that's no violation of Sunshine Law tell us things that you think we should pick up on um here at the council to discuss I would encourage you to to do that some of you do that now I hear from you regularly um uh George reonal yeah uh in response to Mr Johansson I think that you got uh a long-term uh issue and and where you would go with the uh enra and that you're talking about in a lot of cases future development uh and regulations you put on that the people that came in today uh were complaining about flooding yeah the water's in their yard today it's not in their house by the way it's it's in their yard so that's I want to clarify that but I already have a meeting set up with um city of Dand there's some jurisdictional issues but you know we always say storm water doesn't know what uh jurisdiction it's in I think we we'll work together for some solutions because some of these cases the toothpaste is out of the tube and we're going to have to look get some solutions to deal with uh uh issues that are in um older neighborhoods or neighborhoods that uh where new development meets old older development and that may require a different set of solutions than you know the other side is trying to have new things not add to the problem or maybe solve the problem but some of of these things that I'm dealing with now are now so to your point that's going to be more staff driven with uh our Engineers City Engineers uh possibly some Consultants that we'll have to look at you know are there things we can do to uh help in some of these situations when you have high water table uh around the land so um and then you have other work being done uh by the cities and other areas uh with these upcoming um grants that we're going to have for infrastructure uh to the HUD program and and other FEMA mitigation programs those are actual projects that will be coming forth to try again deal with the the the flooding uh as a now project versus uh the long-term planning type things that I think you're talking about with enra take Johansson David Santiago all right I just wanted to add and I'm glad you chimed in on that because the intent is not to stop anything staff is doing staff continues business as usual as we have until we change the process uh the the the suggestion is for enra to look at longterm or whenever they they get done um which we probably should put barriers around that in my opinion uh I I this part they may not they may not like but you know I use Mr chair was somebody had a famous quote that I looked at here and U I think it was uh Ronald Reagan said nothing lasts longer than a temporary government program right um and I'm specific to enra they were tasked with with something and I get is very difficult tasks but that's why I think this Council should realign it to be more focused to be reasonable on outcomes And Timely um and then maybe at the end of this um meeting we can have some suggestions on on on that particular the length and time on on that that particular committee if if this Council so chooses but continue business as usual T them with probably one of the biggest issues that we can address um and come up with recommendations thank you Mr chair thank you um we have a motion in a second on the floor I'll just I I'll just add to what you said um councilman Santiago when this first came up I think it was Ben Johnson who who proposed this um this board and I didn't support it for all the reasons that you just said now that it's in place and I've have gone to their meetings um I think it's a I think it's an essential board it's pulled together people who are not hateful to one another but are usually on opposite sides of the issue from attorneys who were hired by developers by Engineers that work with developers by the educ ational people from our universities by environmentalists and just by normal citizens and I watch them get together and have conversation and actually form friendships and and work together I think that's essential for our community going forward and so I nobody's disagreeing with that and I'm certainly not saying that but I want the people in enra that are sitting here today to to hear that to know that what you're doing is helpful to our whole Community um to have these kind of conversations the motion on the floor is to um uh look at your priorities and bring uh storm water um treatment up you you really just did that with what you brought as on low impact development I I know it's a priority but as George said there's a lot a lot of work to be to be done still um and to I think part of that motion was added to look at things that um are required that that might not need to be required so big task to a big job already Ginger job security uh so if if I don't see I don't see any other discussion if that's an adequate U explanation of the motion um all in favor say I I any opposed and that motion carries 7even to zero we've got enra we've got the um code enforcement board Cultural Arts Council done um uh okay we'll take the library board next I'll make this one simple Mr chair um I move that we advise uh staff to come up with a recommendation excuse me uh ordinance to eliminate The Advisory Board board and explain how um it would be governed going forward okay the motion is to send that to the staff to bring back a um uh proposal to eliminate the library board and any impacts that would have is there a second seconded by Danny Robbins discussion Troy K yeah just just briefly so I may be in favor of that but just the way it was worded it sounds like have staff come back with basically we're going to get rid of this board and I don't know that I'm there yet I don't have enough information I I need more information from staff I may be there after I get that but I think that the way that was worded it it puts out a message that we're ready to get this one chopped off the block and I don't know that I'm there yet thank you Mr good point Troy we talked I talked about messaging earlier right and that's probably not the best way to message that so um if if I can Mr chair I'll amend my motion to direct staff to come up with recommendations on the library board uh and potential ordinances for us to consider second still stand yeah I think that's I think that's better any other discussion on that all in favor say I I any opposed Library board will come back um for discussion we're going to we're going to uh put a lot on you this morning he says with a smile okay uh Jake Johansson you wanted to discuss the animal control board yes sir uh as I understand it the animal control board advises uh staff and we have a special magistrate that does some some adjudicating as well there Mr Dyer yes so your animal control board used to give recommendations on changes to your ordinance which they still do they used to also um s in a quasi judicial capacity on dangerous dog hearings many years ago Council changed that to have a hearing officer decide that so now they're purely advisory as to possible changes on your ordinance can can they as Citizens not part of an Advisory Board since they're all professionals have input on that to our staff on a daily basis yes uh I I therefore would like to uh then make a motion to instruct staff to bring up options for uh for using what used to be or what could be the animal control board to advise staff on ordinance changes outside of an Advisory Board okay I'm not sure I understand that options to get rid of the board or otherwise okay come up with reasons or or options for getting the expertise without being part of an Advisory Board okay the motion is to have staff bring back options uh to in including to eliminate the board and get that information by other means outside of a of a board correct um I'm before I call for a second staff is good with that yeah understand I just I would add I think you would have the option of an ad hoc committee if if we were going to rewrite the uh ordinance like we just did about two years ago okay uh or and of course we would do Outreach into the various uh animal community groups that are out there Humane Societies and veterinarians and other people in the industry okay is there a second on that then second by Danny Robbins any other discussion the vote will be to uh as you just heard have staff bring back uh the options of eliminating the board and how do we get that information outside of a of a board you're not voting to eliminate the board today you're voting to have it come back and then discuss it fully um all in favor say I I any opposed and that carries 7 to zero and that leaves uh several let's do the volunteer fire fund uh committee I think that's if I could I just could speak to that that is one that you've recently restored because your staff is working on how to wind down that pension fund and what her legal options are so its existence uh in our mind was temporary because it's focused purely on that wind down effort so that's not going to be U you know long long standing board to have a special purpose at this point Mr chairman I'll remove that okay yeah I think it's on its way out Mr Ryan you don't okay okay you did it right when he stands up it it gets everybody's attention Okay that one's taken care of itself the uh business incubator Advisory Board Jake Johansson yes sir um if you look on if you care to page nine of the advisory boards the uh the information associated with is is very slim and if you go to their M minutes uh they talk a lot about a lot of things that are happening um but but they don't happen in my opinion because of the Advisory Board they're just Advisory board members reporting to other Advisory board members on things that are going on and it looks like something that possibly uh uh Cyrus and his group can do with this group outside of an Advisory Board again um making them more flexible a little more responsive and able to uh able to communicate Outside The Advisory board so if it's legally able to do so I think they can all get together and do the same thing without being in the sunshine and and uh uh having to wait till a meeting for all these creative people to get together and discuss things I believe that board Russ uh was created by virtue of the agreement that we have with the University of Central Florida that could be changed but I I believe it could we' have to look at it I think that was the Genesis of it and the UCF also appoints uh I believe two Representatives on that board but that's if that's something Council wants us look at and bring back options like the other boards we can do that I would I would like to clearly understand you position on this too I I don't want to stomp on them they're a valuable asset to the to the county but uh um uh yeah I would like to uh entertain a motion to bring back options for uh for dissolving the business incubator Advisory Board not to interfere with the current relationships we have with all the uh stakeholders second okay so the motion is is to uh have the staff bring back options for dissolving the board without interfering with current relationships that we have with UCF or or anyone else is there is there anybody here from the airport or uh Economic Development Cyrus was here earlier I think he had an appointment he had to go to but I'll be certain to relay this discussion with him if it comes back if the board approves us we can discuss it further there I'm uh I'm really hesitant on this but I would I would like to have the discussion so I'll vote for it to bring it back for the purpose of discussion and I think that's what the the motion is um all in favor say I I any opposed Mr chair can you clarify who was the second was it you raised your hand okay yeah Matt Reinhardt Jake Johansson motion Matt Reinhardt second that leaves um the uh Housing Finance and I don't know who brought that up I didn't write the name down did somebody that is something you could consider but we would be absorbing their debts yeah it's it's me and I cancel that one too all right we're done with item two then as far as I can tell and it's uh 121 does the council want to take a break now why don't we come back at 1:00 that'll give all of you time to walk somewhere through the it's not raining I don't think to get um to get something to eat Matt Reinhardt will probably not be back and for good reason and Matt we're uh you're in our thoughts and prayers for your daughter I hope everything goes well um so we are adjourned until 1: p.m. e e e e e e e e e e e for e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e [Music] he [Music] a [Applause] [Music] a [Music] [Music] w [Music] w [Music] w [Music] he [Music] [Music] a [Music] [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 [Music] minutes [Music] w [Music] he [Music] I [Music] [Music] you [Music] yeah [Music] yeah [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 [Music] minutes [Music] oh [Music] okay it is 1 o'clock we will uh resume the meeting and before we move on to item three um if it pleases the council um I think we can handle item six quickly you want to you want to come and talk to us about that and um item six is the amendment to a special exception for a non-exempt excavation good afternoon uh thank you for uh entertaining us at this point my name is Jay chrisy Wilson III I'm the attorney for chemo and um we are item six on the agenda uh we would prefer to have a full commission hear that item and since uh commissioner Reinhardt has had an emergency we would like to have a continuance I believe it's until April 2nd okay and that's fine with staff yes sir so no problem moving it if uh based on the request if council is a client could extend it to the April 2nd meeting at 9:00 am or after Mr chairman move to extend item number six to the April what date did you say Mike April 2D April 2 meeting second motion by David Santiago and seconded by uh Danny and Jake we'll give it to Danny Robbins um all in favor say I I I thank you for yours thank you yeah okay so now we'll go back to item number three um resolution finding public purpose and approving issuance of Housing Finance Authority of valuan County Housing revenue bonds yes sir good afternoon Mr chair members of council Russ Brown Deputy County attorney item three is approval of two resolutions approving the issuance of Bond financing for two projects solely for the purpose of satisfying the requirements of the Internal Revenue code and your purpose today is finding a public purpose for the project to be financed by Bond proceeds the bonds do not constitute a debt liability or obligation of the county if you have any questions Miss meth attorney for the Housing Finance Authority is here with me today to answer any questions you may have was that pre-recorded quick uh David Santiago thank you Mr chairman this just procedural uh so I move to approve item number three okay motion to approve by David Santiago uh second by um Danny Robbins uh we have two members of the public that want to speak would you still like to speak on this uh Tom Johnson and Glenn Reba is Tom here this says item three item five on both those names okay all right we got it no it's okay okay any uh questions for staff all in favor I just want to yes sir can I ask you something Ross um let me just get this straight this is for a project for Lake County and seminal County yes sir that's correct and we're posting the bond for those projects out of County Sarah Mets here on behalf of the Housing Finance Authority of Louch County we received area of operation Authority from those two counties who do not have Housing Finance authorities to issue bonds for those areas um we also have the developer here Scott col to speak about those as well um but essentially this is not a debt or an obligation of the county this is um going towards affordable housing in those areas as well where they do not have Housing Finance authorities of that um the allocation of the bond financing comes from the state uh um allocations and so I mean the short answer is yes these are out of County given authority to Valia to operate in those areas I see the lawyer Wills it's just procedural it it sounds it sounds weird that we're doing it but it's just the way the program is set up it allows us to have a say in how those funds how the bonding is done right essentially this is just for the the um public purpose to to say that there is a public purpose in having affordable housing um so the bond process as as we've gone through it we get the application it's induced by the Housing Finance Authority just simply saying we're interested in uh allocating Bond funding for these if it's available through the state um allocation of those funds and in this case there was and there was no other Valia County project in the pipeline and this does not come from vucha County allocation this would come from allocation in those other counties so the only thing that really touches and concerns valua is that we have an active Housing Finance Authority whereas simol and Lake County do not have those all right right okay I understand okay no other questions or discussion um all in favor of the resolution finding public purpose and approving issuance of Housing Finance Authority of valua County Housing revenue bonds say I I any opposed and the motion carries 6 to zero which takes us to item four adoption hearing ordinance number 2023 d23 ordinance amending the comprehensive plan affordable housing policies chapter [Music] 1 clay good afternoon CLA director of growth and Resource Management uh before you is the adoption hearing for a set of changes to our comprehensive plan to enact in changes that are based to on our previous efforts to improve our overall policies and strategies for providing for affordable housing um as uh those members who were on the council previously this was a project that took approximately three years to go forward and in July of 2022 we adopted the path forward strategies for success part of that was uh identifying uh what we would call critical changes in the regulations and growth management policies we have to help be serve as incentives for affordable housing so staff initiated changes to the comprehensive plan specifically the future land use housing and other elements um we brought went through the process uh in other words we drafted it brought it to the planning Land Development regulation commission and the affordable housing advisory committee uh both of them recommended approvals it was transmitted to the Florida Department of Commerce and to the volution growth management commission both um certified that as being consistent uh uh we brought it forward for adoption at December 5th uh there were concerns identified specifically for favoritism and potential negative impacts on private market operations with the uh uh specific policies tied to expedited review so uh we've went back from staff perspective uh and looked at the policies uh we discussed the option of possibly going and redoing all of them if we did that that would cause us to have to restart the comprehensive planning process because again we've already gone through it this was the final step in getting these adopted so what we looked at is what could be altered so that that way we would address the majority of the concerns identified by the County Council and we made some changes to policies and and rather than um just doing away with it we reverted back to the current policy that's in the adopted comprehensive plan so there would be no modification it's maintaining the same standards that we already had but there was concern in regards to the expedited review um Bia county participates in the state Housing Initiative Program it provides funding for many of our programs one of the things that you'll see is that uh the affordable housing advisory committee and the County Council has approved a strategy in that group that we would be utilizing the expedited review process as one of our necessary elements for compliance with ship funding requirements so we need to maintain those policies in our comprehensive plan to ensure that we're consistent with what is required for us to continue to receive the ship funding so so this kind of just went over the policies we also have in there um end table there's a table that uh identifies all of the changes that were originally proposed and what we identified as either uh reverting back or going forward with the uh recommended changes so we're bringing this forward to you uh we hope that by adding these policies in we'll be able to meet the requirements of the state by also implementing the previously approved uh Housing Initiative that we were uh were approved by the County Council and also addressing the concerns that were identified at the Council on December 5th uh staff is here is available to answer any questions you may have thank you clay uh David Santiago thank you Mr chair move to approve ordinance number 2023 d23 we have a motion to approve is there a second by Jake Johansson uh Danny Robbins thank you chair uh just a couple questions uh clay I saw development standard developmental standard reductions what what reductions um I think it was on page 30 yes sir that was a recommendation that came out of the groups that were subsequent to the the um initial large Workshop that we had with for affordable housing and what came out is there was a recommend that perhaps the development Review Committee would be able to wave up to 40% of dimensional standards that would be applicable to these projects if they were designated as affordable for a set period of time and identified a specific uh population so that we knew we would be hitting our our affordable housing goals and if so then we would entertain the ability like a setback a building height of those types of things so that that way there could could be flexibility in the development standards that would help initiate that affordable housing uh we were originally going with 40% what you're seeing is 10% because we heard that there was concern about differentiation between affordable and market rate so we we felt it was necessary to do this the 10% is consistent with what yall have approved as far as administrative variances as and and you thank you clay and you had mentioned that you guys did make some in-house uh policy changes what what policies did you change not in-house we all we did is we if there was a policy that was identified that we could change without jeopardizing our ship funding we simply just reverted back to the original language in the comprehensive plan um for the ship funds we went over this in the in the staff meeting where obviously I think everybody should get equal treatment uh for this what are our options if we um do we have to have the expedited permitting yes been identified in our one of the things that in order to participate in that program you have to have a mandatory set of uh programs in place to be eligible and one of them that we've identified is the expedited review this was something that was identified through your staff to the affordable housing advisory committee they agreed with it they basically have made it as part of our um process and it's been adopted formally by the County Council and uh I'll try to wrap things up is there any other options that we can take or any other pots of money or any other grants that don't have that stipulation where we would have to show favoritism to to a group or a class of people I I think we're passed that in history I just I find it odd that that we're willing to do that for for one group and not the other so I'm trying to find another Avenue is there other grants that wouldn't have that sort of requirement I'll have to defer to our uh our uh Community assistant staff Carmen Hall uh would be able to give you a better idea but we we as a county utilize multiple PL pots of money from both the federal and state to try and get into and provide for affordable housing ship provides one of those funding sources and the reason why they're looking at expedited review is because many times it's involving uh private property that's trying to be utilized for affordable housing and so they're understanding that further delays through the permitting process would cause greater cost to the an to the developer of the affordable housing so it's again it's an effort to reduce from a government perspective the cost it's just simply then transferred on to the end user but thank you clay Carman Hall community Assistance director So currently we receive home funds which can also be used towards affordable housing we already received those funds so it wouldn't be an addition to our current allocation for affordable housing thank you Carman I'm just trying to establish uh because that's kind of a deal breaker for me um when it comes to this I want equal treatment and and just within our process you know we we're uh Expediting uh permits when we have permits in the queue um and then we have uh a wave up to 40% in developmental standards are we giving that same equal treatment and that's just so my colleagues know where my head's at but um thank you you've answered everything thanks Don Dempsey yeah I was just curious clay what will happen if we voted no for this I'm sorry what what would happen if we voted against this um the existing policies would remain in place um we would have to look at what we've got I know that there is still an existing policy in the comprehensive plan about expedited review it's just it's these are uh more upto-date and consistent with recent language um but if you denied this the existing comprehensive plan would remain in place and we would just continue on with going forward we would have to go back and uh work through through the affordable housing advisory committee and planning Land Development regulation commission to again address some of these issues it would basically restart the entire process again so there's a there's on page seven uh actually I depends on how your numbering it uh four of 14 or page seven uh policy 51. 6.8 it just says in there let me see if I can find find it here yeah here it is um you see it I I'm getting there paragraph 15 on page seven otherwise known as page four of 14 okay post Ergo Proctor hawor I don't know just what's what's the policy number 15 oh I'm sorry 5.1. 6.8 point8 okay yeah I'm sorry what page again I'm sorry page seven on the bottom center right or page yeah yeah I'm sorry it's the table yes yes sir uh okay it says to encourage infill increase affordable housing stock in the county the development of non-conforming lots for principal structures and accessory dwelling units may be approved administratively by the uh planning and development services director how does that how does all that happen now does it have to go to the pdrc or no we're deleting that as you can see to the right it says delete so that all developers are treated equally so anything pertaining and so if you have a non-conforming lot you can't develop it but this would allow non-conforming lots to be developed then yes sir yeah and this also encourages uh the use of infill for laot so that we're going to have more dense population no sir the term infill means what you do is you identify existing urban areas and where you have vacant land and land that's being underutilized you try and put in encouragement so those properties are used ahead of anything going out in the green field or trying to uh basically Leap Frog out of the urban area and then otherwise in here it says there would be density bonuses is that for higher density residences get U some sort of spiff we currently have density bonuses allocated in our comprehensive plan what it is is that it's based on the type of land use and so therefore it could allow for say duplex in single family it could allow for multifam and some of the duplex or Triplex areas so again it's it's giving the opportunity for folks who are developing affordable housing to get additional density okay that's all I have thanks Jake Johansson thank you sir I just CLA I just want to verify that that policy we just talked about to encourage infill you are deleting that so that's no longer a factor um and and we had this conversation our staff meeting the other day um uh I'm I'm kind of with Mr Robbins on this that um I want everybody to be expedited um I as as uh I want to put a developer hat on and and develop a a non-affordability areas and and this one's going to be exploited and finish a lot quicker than this one but but the rules that we're using to uh decrease the cost of affordable housing also apply to the what might be non affordable housing because it's over the cost of 120% of Ami um I I want to encourage the county and and staff uh to help keep the price of every house as low as we can get it by Expediting our permitting process as best I can and I I understand we have some challenges with our with our department and getting things out uh not in a timely manner but in an expedited manner uh so so I I would encourage to look at ways to to make it the same across the board and we talked a little bit about options there um and and and for for my uh colleagues I I I get the sense I might be wrong I get the sense that that we consider ship to be something bad but I want to I want you to keep in mind that that that ship is a a great program for people we work with every day police firefighters nurses teachers it's not don't don't stereotype who uses ship for for housing I think it's very important uh and for all affordable housing um uh one 120% Ami puts this into a lot of our friends and relatives so keep that in mind thank you just real quick please in response to uh about the time frame um Please be aware right now there's pending legislation which is is going to dictate how quickly we have to get out specifically single family building permits um if some of those requirements are made real the cost will go up because we will have to get multiple staff in order to be able to meet a 3 to five day time frame to get a single family building permit out so we will be Expediting all permitting for single family if what is in some of these different bills gets passed so as that goes forward we'll be able to report back to you as to what's going on from that perspective because right now that's something we are looking at very seriously because it has a severe impact on our staffing or Contracting for assistance in getting the permits out so um we will be addressing that but the again the policies that you're seeing were developed over a three-year period that culminated in July of 2022 so if the council H does not agree with those that's fine we would just need to know that because right now that's how your staff is proceeding the findings from that July 2022 decision on a Pathways for the strategies for affordable housing is what we are basing our day-to-day operations as it pertains to affordable housing if that's not where this Council wants to go we just need to know that one further comment chairman uh on my time um this is a an unfortunate example of a staff working hard to do something the council told them and the council's kind of changing uh the direction of the wind a little bit and and knee- jerking maybe in in another uh another direction that that uh uh the it's unfortunate but but maybe maybe needed maybe not um but it's important for us I think to to move uh slowly uh constructively and and um a a little bite of the Elephant at a time to get where we need to go if if that's where we need to go to keep staff on Mission thank you David Santiago thank you Mr chairman clay um just want to like for clarity purposes irregardless correct me if I'm wrong irregardless of the pending legislation in order to participate in the ship program for fush County residents we have to by state law have some type of Expediting process is that correct again the ship program identifies expedited permit review is one of the requirements right so in order to participate in that program we have to have that yes sir I know we may not like it but in order to We're Not Gonna eliminate ship funds or or or turn ship funds away our Council has approved that as the policy on December 5th 2023 the council approved the Strategic housing policy I just want to make sure that because we have to do that in order to participate in Shri um going back to number 15 clay the um on page seven as as um Don brought up um that you're proposing to eliminate uh that section What What In in what is the effect of that um where we were trying to go there is picking up some of these Remnant Parcels that are in within vucha County say around the derbish Shire area uh some of the areas in New Smyrna Beach some of the areas in say Spring Hill where we have vacant Lots or uh or some of these other properties which have fallen into disrepair where they can't be redeveloped because they're either not a good lot or don't meet the minimum requirements for that zoning this would give them the opportunity to be reused for affordable any type of or any or if we eliminate it it will allow for any type of that my understanding that I just want to make sure I'm clear to encourage infill and increase the affordable housing stock so it would have to be tied to Affordable that's the purpose of the elimination of okay um and the thing is if you want to make it open for everybody we could sit there but then we would why would we have the non-conforming standards yeah yeah no I get it I get it so this it's another tool yes sir um Mr chairman I I think we're still in questions I don't know if you want to Pivot to debate or not I don't know if there's still questions debate I think we okay everybody's got questions answered all right go ahead David Santiago um guys I I I get the you know the exception right for this Speedy thing but we're kind of in a box here right um I think um to to eliminate any exceptions to not exceptions sorry the speed up process could could jeopardize ship funds that many of our citizens participate in remember ship you should know ship is derived of uh uh dock stamps I believe is what it is uh dock stamps that people in our County pay into that fund to be utilized for these purposes so our residents are paying this tax um for that purpose so I would hate to do anything to jeopardize that and and and then the other part is that you know I think Jake you said it well you know staff did what council had asked them to do um I don't see any of these policies that are being proposed as detrimental to to the county so I think there comes a time we got to stand behind our staff right and and and support the efforts that they did because nothing is is stands out to me is bad that we shouldn't do it they did what we asked them to do and sometimes we just got to step up and except their work um absent something really being bad I don't see or hear anything that that would be bad so I I would encourage us to support our staff send the message that you know affordable housing is important and you know we used to have a gentleman that would come here all the time I forgot his name Ro Le yeah but he would often talk about the price of housing especially for young people right how would they're so priced out of the market and a lot of it has to do with policies that that that you know state and local government do that affect that uh on many levels not just this so I think we can we got to do what we can to to make it reasonable thank you Mr chair you're welcome before uh I call on anybody else we have four members of the public that want to speak do you want to hear them first before your debate or I'll leave it up to you five I was going to throw out a little proposal Bounce It Off you guys okay go ahead Danny Robbins thanks chair um David I I I agree with uh some of what you're saying there um but I kind of want a sure thing for everybody um I'll take I'll I'll I'll take a bite with you on on that under one condition is that we create right now the same policy to mirror for our Everyday People to mirror the same standards as um uh in line with the ship funds in terms of the 40% reduction and in terms of expedited uh permitting and also um whatever else goes in there and when it comes to if we do have to hire more people guess what the permit fees and all that other stuff if we get this stuff cranking it's going to it's going to pay for itself Mr chair if I may respond um I I like it I like it because and then it's reducing U bureaucracy for everyone so if this Council I could accept that Danny I have no problems with accepting that right um I'd like to hear what Don has to say there's a first don don Dempsey no I I guys I get it this is money we don't really really want to walk away from and I get that um anytime we can take federal funds or state funds we should grab it but I mean vucha County I think's in a unique situation just last meeting we had we had to hear about poor Troy's interior of his car and what he has has to what it has to endure when he drives into town with all the traffic problems I mean we I think a lot of us campaigned on responsible growth and the last thing I want to do is an incentivize more growth faster quicker more people more density bonuses for density I mean the traffic in the Kepler area all I mean the land the traffic is really bad and I don't think the roundabouts are going to be the answer in if we're going to incentivize more growth more density more potential flooding if that's your you know if that's your belief that that's what's causing uh a lot of our flooding issues is overdevelopment well that's this is exactly what we're doing is adding to more development and so I I think we should just say thanks but no thanks um we we have a a lot of people already the developments are going up everywhere we've got about 4 th000 houses that are permitted to be built and haven't got their cosos yet so there's a lot of growth going on just in this little section at the land Yeah by Kepler and 44 thank you but I'm just saying I the last thing I want to do is see infill development and non-conforming it's just guys I think enough's enough for a while let's just let things kind of play out and stop this Mass uh development chase that I think we're heading towards that's why I'm a no on this thanks okay um clay I need to clarify Carmen pointed out and this is coming from the document that the council has approved and is part of our strategy for affordable housing that's been submitted to the state strateg the processing of approvals of development orders for permits for affordable housing projects are expedited to a greater degree than other projects as Pro provided for in Florida Statutes Section 163 3.1 77 so we've already adopted in have in place as of December 5th 2023 a policy that would prevent that motion part of that motion okay yeah before um before I ask a question Suzanne yeah just just two things um the council may recall because we've had a number of speakers come in and ask you to allocate resources to affordable housing that part of our strategy is to take advantage of those monies that come to us from the state and federal designated funds such as ship as opposed to our general fund dollars here in the county so we've been very careful to try to not use our local taxpayer dollars and take advantage of those due to us through ship the Sadowski fund Etc much of which doesn't go to new development but to home buyer assistance and other program programs that help our firefighters and and workers uh achieve their housing needs um so I just wanted to put the ship funding in some context the other context that I I feel compelled to make sure we understand is most of the development occurring for affordable housing and just housing in general in the county is how happening in our cities in our urban areas where I I think we might agree that is the appropriate place for it to occur I think I asked Clay earlier this week how many affordable housing projects have we offered the expedited permitting to in his eight years of uh time in his role in valuch County it's been the equivalent of one project so I know it's getting a lot of discussion from a philosophical level but the number of projects seeking that uh well are practically non-existent we do have some Habitat for Humanity homes and some homes uh bring hope uh that have come forward they've not asked for expedited permitting and they'll be entitled to it because they're really at that single family building permit level but to the extent that helps put some perspective to the discussion I just wanted to make sure that we mentioned it um I'm glad you did that and I I had a question for you she just dealt with it though I think David might have a question for you but one I would was just going to say that Don your your argument is really tempting and if I thought that it was true i' join you but I don't there is not a rush of developers trying to build affordable housing in infill is using lots that are available in the urban areas where there's already infrastructure so we're using infrastructure that's already in place instead of having to run new infrastructure um but like uh the deputy uh County Manager just said this is a trickle of people uh we they're these are reasonable um incentives I think for people to build affordable housing in in places that we have available but um clay just a clarification staff had recommended reduction of that 40% to 10% if if that just whatever the final decision is going to be just clarify that in the motion so we know whether or not it's the 10% or 40% and if it's a applicable to everybody or just to uh affordable housing we current as I as I said we currently have a an administrative variance that this Council approved for all projects that can utilize up to 10% of the setbacks that they're applying for so that that's already on the books there but what we were looking at is reducing it down to 10% for uh affordable housing as well okay David Santiago so clay um to going back to Danny's request um where he wanted to have it more of a standardized for everyone so we could amend well as as he suggested 10% for everyone just that specific one I know the the uh um the shot clock I'll just use that yes um we may have a challenge with that based on our submitt to the state is that am I understanding that correct we will have a CH I mean right now we are facing uh issues in regards to getting single family permits out in a timely manner um well all permits out in a timely manner when we see and we believe that one form of the bill or not will make it through we have to look at what we're going to be doing in regards first of all we're going to have to I'd say hire contract staff to try and catch up and um hire permanent staff to keep let me clarify my question because I think I think I got you there um Danny suggested possibly amending this particular portion to apply to everyone on those standards um including the the the timing and the other parameters that were in there right correct yeah I I can go for it what I was saying is I can go for it I want everybody to be equal yeah yeah and that's where I'm going so so it will equalize if the state law comes through it will equalize everyone's on the shot clock M the shot clock yes sir okay um regardless of whether it's affordable or market rate it would still be subject to and please pardon me I can't remember last time I heard it was three days for us to intake review and issue raai for additional information or issue a permit within three days and if we were to amend it that way as Danny suggested and the legislature passes that bill then we I'm is it safe to assume that we are not in any Jeopardy for the ship program fund I don't know I don't know how that would be interpreted there because as the strategy says it has to so is that mean for a single family where I have to do it in three days I to get in and out that within an hour yeah yeah um thank thank you clay for that clarification um and and and Don I wanted to respond um on on when it comes to the ship fund the Sadowski fund it it's not necessarily some you know um Tallahassee money I guess you could call it that because they're the ones that collect it right but um our people here in in our County pay into that and and when they pay it and they're at closing they're told that well they should be told that this is a tax that you're being assessed for this particular purpose which your county benefits from so I I I I worry jeopardizing that and then sending a message to volutions that yeah you're going to pay this tax but no one in vucha County May ever get to participate in it you know um so um generally speaking I'm kind of with you with turning down federal or big money but this is money that people pay for a purpose so I just want to make sure which is it oh it's the total is in over100 million a year What's the total I'm talking about for the state I don't know what our portion is she can answer so our current 23 24 allocation is about about 4.5 million we anticipated to receive a little over 3 million next fiscal year gotta for Valia County gotcha and and I think as Susan thank you for clarifying too because the majority of those recipients are for existing homes so it doesn't Force what what you're concerned um in you know and the problem I think that you're mentioning is is is the bigger developments right and how that sprawl is happening but on the infill side I don't know at least for the county I haven't seen many of those come through in the county since we've been here um so I don't see that as the the major issue and my last Point Mr chairman Danny I want to see how we can get there um I think I like what you said about all applying all the other standards to everyone I think that that jives with the the mindset of this Council can we get their absent that shot clock until here's a question for clay can we uh adopt Danny's suggestion absent the the uh the shot clock change and then adopt a change later on Danny like add that amend that in later on the applying that to everyone after the legislature acts we have a April 30th Workshop where our staff will be coming and talking to you about permitting zoning and the whole kitten Kaboodle then by then state law would have shook out by then we can speak to you more intelligently about what options we can offer and what we can't offer so I would the simple fact is this there's not a limitation on the number of comp plan amendments we have to do anymore so therefore after the April 30th you would like us to go back and review our comprehensive plan to make amendments to this to equalize the process we can do that uh the reason why I'm bringing this up is we are facing deadline on this oh because remember we were we were at adoption back in December 5th because of what's going on we have till March 351st to complete the and basically get it to Tallahassee um and otherwise it will be considered withdrawn so my last question last last if we were to adopt this if I understood you correct if we were to adopt this today with almost all of d and's recommendations applicable to everyone except the shot clock what I'm calling the shot clock you're saying that after in April when we get your update and get the legislative update what the law changed at that time if we so choose we can send a comp plan amendment to modify that to comply is that correct I think that's what you said yes I think you said what I said okay I just want to make sure in the same place so the council understand so so we can move forward meet our commitment on this and amend it in two months yes sir amend the comp I support that so just to clarify before everybody else speaks your motion was to accept this according to the staff's recommendations it it was and I think Danny suggested a amendment that has not been adopted yet okay well we we'll need to deal with the amendment um before we vote on the the the main motion um so I'll let uh Jake Johansson yes sir clay just just to verify item four is just affordable housing policies right now right yes sir and and if I'm clear we're kind of asking you to make affordable housing Pro policies kind of everybody's policies right yes that's which is separate so let's remain on task if we like what the affordable housing policies are so much that we want to include everybody let's approve the affordable housing policies today and we'll talk at the uh we'll talk at the uh Workshop where that might just be a staff policy and it doesn't have to be a comp plan Amendment or maybe it could be I don't know but I think that's it's a great idea I'm all for it but but let's get through this and uh and work through it um and and if we're kind of in debate I heard something I I want to I want to ensure as a elected official I'm clear that that our general thought here is that we're going to manage development not stop it and if we're managing development the best place to manage it is not to continue to sprawl but to use infill and I heard that I don't want infill I think infill is the best idea it's part of clustering it's part of reusing infrastructure that already exist oh by the way it's in the cities not in the county by and large um so uh something we have limited control over uh lastly I want to point out that time and time again counties and cities are are unilaterally un unilaterally agreeing on things that that may make sense to them but our state officials take a look at it and go oh hell no and they preempt us so every decision we make here regarding development and growth in Valia County of which our state currently enjoys the development enjoys the people coming here we have to deal with we need to deal with it responsibly so if we're all up here trying to maintain vucha County and its current state without development we're going to get preempted we already have with the live local act we already have with other affordable housing things so let's take control of this and do it right the way we want to do it and and not the way the state wants to do it by shoving it down down our throats as they have with other uh issues that have preempted us thank you Danny Robbins thanks thanks chair you know it's hard not to be philosophical Don um I hear what you're saying uh Jake David um you know but something we got to also remember too is like you know the for instance you mentioned um Kepler Roden D land that wasn't out of the ordinary that wasn't by mistake that was planned for that area in every plan imaginable under God between Dand and Belia County uh but clay and his team did a good Workshop um or presentation I want to say a year year and a half ago maybe even two years ago um and we talked about the the trickle of development in unincorporated valua it's absolutely true I know there's some several pictures that are being painted out there that just aren't true but his um presentation hit the nail on the head when it came to uh our growth in the county at 1.9% uh it's about 6,000 people per year year countywide about 99% of development was happening in the cities not unincorporated valua and also too probably in the last since I've been sitting up here the chairman and I maybe five developments or less projects several of them were already pre-approved part us um have happened so you know I I get what you're saying but also too I don't want to give the land who's been a good partner uh a black guy for something that that that was in their vision and still is in their Vision but I just don't want us to to to slug them and beat them down as if they're they're doing something wrong even uh when our opinions are there so um at the end of the day it's hard not to uh in my opinion put some strings attached to this vote uh where I do agree with you Don is is I want a sure thing I don't want to depend on the state like Jake said I want us to take the bull by the horns and and make a decision that we can make even though it is a separate item but my vote's going to be contingent on that uh I want to support this and vote up on this but I need I need a quality to get me across that line uh for my people and the people that uh that that that I represent I just don't think it's fair at this point and I didn't know now I didn't know what I know now what I did in in in the past and that's and that's on me uh I'll eat that so um I want to get us there I I I really do but I I I want uh this not to be conditional on the state I think we need to strike the iron while it's hot and uh that's how you'll get my vote thanks Don Dempsey yeah Danny I'm not I'm not saying all this flooding I do believe it's real that's going on on Kepler Road like I've told you before I've ridden dirt bikes all through there before they're even subdivisions in those areas that I've never seen flooding like I see it now so I don't know what the cause is I don't know if it's nature or overdevelopment I don't know and I'm not here to take sides but I know there's an issue and JC was here earlier today talking about his property and I believe everything he says is sincere and um I just I I you know affordable housing I guess is a relative term because you know I'm heavily involved in the real estate market and I've been active in the real estate market for over 20 years now and I mean I have I've seen condos in the same location range from 30,000 a condo up to 180,000 to 110 then back down to 30 now up to 180 now they're back down to 140 I just don't like when government sees a problem or perceives a problem and feels like it has to get involved you know just to quote Reagan again he said government doesn't solve problems it subsidizes them and if we would just let lay Fair do its thing let capitalism do its thing supply and demand do its thing and just let it all play out but if we're going to start picking and choosing winners and losers and who's going to get extra here and from this pot of money or this pot of money the government needs to stay out of this stuff and just let the market do its thing we do have 4,000 houses on the Queue that are about to be built right in that same area where we just had a chamber full of people complaining about traffic and flooding and even if you don't believe in the flooding the traffic is a real problem that's why I voted against it because the I see the traffic Troy sees the traffic driving into these meetings it's a real issue and if we're going to incentivize more development more development you know and Pat ourselves on the back because it's affordable housing and try and feel good about ourselves because we're helping the less fortunate I mean I get it but we're still increasing density we're still adding to the problem we need to just let the market play itself out and quit letting government pretend that we're the Cure All for all the issues so I'm I'm a hard no on this I think whenever we have an opportunity to stay out of people's lives and a free economy we need to so that's where I am thanks David Santiago promise last bite nice move trying to use Reagan again huh I used them earlier I like it I like it you almost caught me for a second but I and reason I say almost caught me is because um um your your arguments given um the fact that government in general hasn't overreached in policymaking in rules and procedures when it comes I'll just use the development topic we're talking about right so we have all these rules that have been placed out there from us and other agencies that raise the price of development right um that's that's part part of the the the the cost drivers when you you know we've had subdivision projects that have come before us and uh they say well you have to do this this and this and this and that well guess what they just did they just added 20,000 15,000 $330,000 to the cost of the lot right well not everybody can afford that and those are drivers those are not free market drivers those are in response to government requirements I'm just speaking to that and we can that's why the way that this is written and and I'm okay Danny with reducing like you said reducing those for everyone it's it's those entry barriers or obstacles that raise the cost of of of of of homes um that what this by itself gives some relief to um and so it's not it's not a necessarily a free market thing which again now if we do what Danny says in the next wave after our April meeting then yeah we're doing it for everybody I'm okay with that but this particular policy and before us um I don't think it's necessarily getting in the way from that perspective but um and I lost my original Chain of Thought you threw me off with Reagan I wasn't even going to go there um uh uh sorry I'm lost for words Mr chair I forgot my my my original thoughts Danny Robbins thanks Shar this is my last as well and I can relate Don and David to a lot of what you're saying um biggest thing equality I want to quality um but also too if we want to stop the subsidies we got to have the inventory this is the most basic form of supply and demand in my opinion uh that that drives this market so um we we want this stuff we don't want to subsidize but we don't want to build either uh so how do we expect things to become affordable you know if you have stuff in the market which we we don't have these people aren't building these things for their health okay people are moving here we could all not like it I don't like it that's why I live where I live my old Slice of Heaven so you know I think we have to be realistic I think we're being a little counterproductive to be honest with you but I'm willing to go for it but there's got to be conditions here today remember what I was going to say Mr chairman it was to Danny's last comment okay Danny I support your effort I think like Jake said we need to do it in a separate phase after this so you have my commitment to support it I'm only one of seven but you have my commitment I think Jake kind of alluded to dealing with it later on so I think we we put this to to move forward and meet the deadline that were required and then let's open that up I'm open to it I'm not I'm not going to let you down okay um let's hear from the from the public before we deal with the the motion and any potential Amendment because we've got an interesting group um i' really I'm looking forward to hearing the their various opinions uh we'll start with Melissa Lamers and then Jessica gal you will be next and um good afternoon Melissa Lamers Orman by the Sea District 4 surprise have you ever had to decide between buying groceries or meeting your rent I have I'm sure that my friends are shocked by that they know me as someone who's really buttoned up when it comes to planning and budgeting and they're absolutely right but in spite of being careful with my money and making good decisions I faced that difficulty simply because money I was owed didn't arrive in time it had a cascading effect on my finances and meant I couldn't buy food the situation didn't last for long and it was back when I was working my way through UF but I recall very well as a human how it felt to have done everything right and by the book yet still find myself having to make that tough choice that's the reality facing many working people retirees and students in our community today before I moved back here I lived in large metropolitan areas where people had to pay upwards of 50% of their incomes for housing whether renting or buying I never thought I'd see that happen here but we become known as one of the last affordable places for folks to retire or buy a second home near a beach Market forces have driven up real estate pricing local workers out in Florida housing is considered affordable if it cost lost no more than 30% of a household's gross annual income how many in our community have to pay out more than that to have a roof over their heads what must they do without when I was Chief marketing officer of United Way of Miami Dade I learned about a wonderful tool to understand the economic reality of people in a specific Community the Alice report using local data it shows how much money is needed for families retirees and singles just to to get by even precariously like with my example and how much it takes to Achieve Financial stability people in Alice earn more than poverty wages but not enough to consistently meet their financial needs in belusa County there are about 28% of households and that's an addition to the 14% who are officially in poverty this is largely driven by the cost of housing the cost of having a roof over your head for you and your family any vucha family whose combined wages are less than $33.95 an hour will fall into Alice the median wage for Deltona Orman Daytona area is $17.35 I could share all kinds of Statistics with you but I'm talking about human lives so please I urge you to bring a balanced approach to to housing by adopting the revisions proposed by the Land Development review affinity group that were originally presented to this Council in August of 2023 thank you thank you Jessica gal and uh naika hini if you want to come sit on the front row with um foro is she still is she still here Fu and then you'll be next good afternoon Jessica gal Port Orange Florida um I'm going to start today with what is called the boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness it's a a political theory that says a man who can afford $50 had a pair of boots that would keep his feet dry for 10 years while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent $100 on boots in the same time and he would still have wet feet this is not a situation where the downtrodden in our community must pull themselves up by their bootstraps I wish it was to put it simply their bootstraps would break the 2022 Ami is listed in the county backup as $36,800 year that's $3,000 a month for rent at 30% $3,000 a month at the 30% allowance for housing that's $900 a month toward housing costs who has $900 rent the median sales price in valua county is $ 361,662 assuming a 30-year mortgage 15% down payment of $54,000 which people don't have that is $2,166 a month that doesn't include Insurance utilities or other necessary items they have $834 a month or $200 a week to provide food Transportation Insurance utilities gas and medical expenses according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics the average spending on food at home is $438 a month and utilities average is $300 a month it's a lot of math but you can see there's not much left at the end we can understand why so many households in our community are cost burdened affordable housing has been identified as a community service and type of infrastructure in many jurisdictions acknowledging that this housing need must be treated separately from typical housing stock while property values and costs continue to rise the AMR and our community has not adjusted to compat these costs 45% of vucha households don't earn enough to consistently cover their basic living expenses according to the Alice report 60% of valua and Flagler families are Alice or below that's 92781 children who live in asset limited income constrained homes even though their parents are employed in contributing to our community it's 19,000 Veterans of which 82% are owner cost burdened the original proposal that was brought before you is the culmination of years of planning among public private and Theo sector to bring you a balanced approach to affordable housing for our community we're requesting that the council fully adopt the revisions proposed by the Land Development review affinity group which were originally presented to this Council in August and December of 2023 thank you na good afternoon everybody Mr chairman for the record naika husseini 231 North wooden Boulevard in Del land and bear with me I'm I'm a little frustrated right now um I'm a development attorney but this has nothing to do with development I'm a daughter of immigrants who came here for a better life and like a lot of people that live in our community that were raised in our community they want to come back and live here here and help work for the community and do better our nurses our doctors our firefighters our policemen um even young lawyers all kinds of individuals that want to live in this community that were raised here and how do we do that the nurse that helps you at the hospital where is she or he supposed to live when they're just getting started to say that this is about development or that the market will simply handle it itself is frankly pretty appalling in my opinion we we are supposed to be a community of individuals that help each other I'm not saying give a hand out that's not what I'm saying I'm saying help each other this is about infield development Mr chairman you said it perfectly this is about taking certain Lots in certain areas like Mr Iran said particularly certain lots that are non-conforming or don't meet all the standards and using that for housing stock that we don't have any of you heard what clay said one project in8 years in the county we are supposed to be PRI prioritizing affordable development and affordable housing we're not we're not you're hearing development attorneys talk about this because it's really close and near and dear to our hearts and look we're on the other side of of various topics there's some things that we don't agree on but this is for the betterment of our community this is for infill housing almost always and to get those individuals that we all claim we want in our community the people that make lives better here and make it a joy to live here come back so that they can live here so that they're not going somewhere else another city or county where they have adopted these comprehensive plan policies to make it easier for nonprofits to partner together and to have these houses built so respectfully request that you take the hard work of the Affinity groups of your staff of Mr one of one clay Irvin who is one of the absolutely best individuals we've had the pleasure of having and working with take what they're saying what they've worked on what you had told them to do it is a big deal this will make a big difference this is not about development this is about human lives and making our community better please take the original proposal and accept that thank you for your time Fu husseini are there any more huses in the back behind hiding the rest one at a time good afternoon good afternoon fusini Orman Beach thank you so very much for allowing me to speak I appreciate everyone's time um you know part of ICI homes and I've been working for over 40 years uh to make our community better uh some of you know that I started foot bring so because there were hungry kids but Nina niiko were in fourth grade and that's how I learned that we have homeless children in our community never knew and so started fot brings home and then expanded as needed uh when you know then we are in schools and see what happens and then later on we realized that um I realized that the only way that I can help stabilize certain families is by making sure that they have a house to live in that they not stress that they have to move day to day um um house to house because the rents go up so um I completely agree with what niik and Jessica said uh both of whom by the way work for food brings hope for free um um I really appreciate the fact that um you have put this on your agenda it's very very important for a community you know it's a priority for the legislature you know is our pres Kine Paso's uh priority for housing and this is for infield housing I take at part of homespring hope I take lots that are just sitting here forever um city of deab has given me 15 lots for free so far a waving permit fees so that I can go and build homes not through ICI homes although I do abuse our staff so that they can draw plants for free and get cost for free and many many many people like I abuse these two sitting here many many many people um donate their time many businesses the only way to me the only way that we can address big complicated Community issues is government working with nonprofit with the help of business and I'm doing my best and I know that the businesses are doing their best because a SL and Associates does everything for us for free because Florida paints gives us everything for free so that we can build an affordable home and our family Foundation pay for all the overhead and you know how much we sell the houses that homes spraying hope sells for whatever the person can afford whatever the teacher the nurse these are not people who coming from other states that we are giving a a house to these are employees of Halifax Health Advent Health Dayton State College bethon cookman Veterans Affairs we have 10 Partners so um some things that I've heard it's very surprising to me right that you take fault with us who are trying to help the people who take care of us the nurses that Mr Matt Reinhardt you don't want your nurse to sleep in their car before they come and take care of your children thank you very much thank you uh Lori Lori juli guli thank you sorry thank you chairman thank you Council staff um my name is Lori guli I'm the CEO of Habitat for Humanity of Greater valua County a job I have held for 23 years um every day I work with people who just as you've been described by by the speakers who came before me are challenged these are people who are working some of them are working two jobs to try to make ends meet but as I'm sure you are all keenly aware the wages in our County have not equaled the rise in housing costs and yes it is very true that most people that we encounter at habitat who are working people in this community holding jobs as P patient techs phlebotomists in the hospitals CNAs in nursing homes they work certainly in tourism and they work in trucking manufacturing they work essential jobs in this community and they are struggling to make things work for themselves and for their children so you've heard from Mrs hini I also represent a nonprofit the cost of building houses as you brought up uh councilman a lot of it comes from the regulations that we have to pay for and the things that are required um but as nonprofit well I'm only going to speak for my nonprofit but we are are dedicated to our mission so we're going to figure it out the need for affordable housing grows every day here in valuchi County I want to just take a moment to address the fairness question the market can't fix this the people who are building moderate homes luxury homes there's a profit margin in that there's a very very small opportunity for any profit in affordable housing we're going to do what we do because it's who we are but we all need help you need as many people building affordable housing in this community as you can incourage so they need those incentives so when you talk about and I can appreciate your wanting to talk about fairness but the situation is unfair to start with it's your opportunity because of the work from a lot of people in this community over a long number of years and a very dedicated staff that you have that you have before you the revisions that were proposed by the Land Development review affinity group was which were originally presented to this Council in August of 23 is really what I would ask you to support that balances that it's never going to make it equal the for-profit builders are always going to be okay with that but it just tries to level it a little bit so it's a question of fairness in dealing with a situation that is inherently unfair now thank you Mark Watts you're the last speaker unless na would like more time you you'll give her more time H um members of the council I appreciate the opportunity to speak Mark Watts with cob Cole here as a person who lives four blocks away um excuse me some of the comments that made I just you know made me want to get up and and share some stories over the past 25 years of my career dealing with affordable housing because I appreciate the direction I appreciate the direction to reduce red tape to streamline things when it comes to the general development process we have ongoing meetings we have some new meetings that are on this on the agenda to get together to talk about those very things to talk about how do we clear the red tape for all projects so that everybody can get through the process quicker but with regard to the item before you now I'd encourage you to follow U councilman Johansson's suggestion that adopt what's in front of you and adopt what the Affinity groups came up with because three years ago you know I sat on the stage in the opening session of our affordable housing discussion and my comment to to everybody that was in attendance that day was affordable housing needs the thumb on the scale every available tool in order to meet the demand that exists now and that's just continuing to grow government is in the marketplace we government joined the market place in 1926 when the Supreme Court decided uclid versus Amer zoning Land Development regulations all those things were legitimized private property was no longer something that laa far governed government is in the marketplace when you're talking about private development versus affordable development they are very different things a few minutes ago you approved a bond issue for affordable housing projects that financing that comes through those bonds requires that the developer of that property own it for the next 30 Years and keep it as affordable housing most projects that are financed and that come through the regular development process don't have that same restriction in place if you come in here as a private land owner and build a home you're not going to have a term that says you can't sell it for 30 years they are different the marketplace is different when it comes to affordable housing and we as a community should adopt every available tool to continue to help and encourage affordable housing to be developed um Melissa Lamers excuse me commented a few minutes ago that you know how many of us have been in that situation where you've got to go out and seek a program to help you be able to put food on the table um we don't want to be there but we have an obligation to serve those members of our community that need that help and so I think this is a good step in the right direction it's not the final step and it's not one that we can't come back and revisit but I encourage you adopt the policies that have been proposed we spent three hours this morning talking about advisory groups you have in front of you the product of three years of work adopt it please thank you uh Jake Johansson yes sir I have a quick question for clay um one of the members of the public said that there's no money money to be made in affordable housing um when when somebody approaches us uh the live local act let's say that um what are the benefits they get from building under the live local act uh they depending on the program they do they can get tax abatement for depending on how the the mix of affordable housing they could get up to 100% of the reduction in that up to so so people can make money building affordable housing yes I believe that there can be a I just want to make that clear that that although some don't some some do and it and it benefits them to do so um and uh uh that's all I have for questions chairman I'll I'll go to debate if we ever need to get there I think we've been in debate I think we're ready to vote let's vote I I think we are motion already we have a and the motion on the floor was to accept the work that the staff had done had done let's keep is there still a an amendment no Amendment at this time I I um I like that motion I'm going to support that motion and vote for what we're what we're talking about here is we keep calling it affordable housing it's Workforce housing it's where um some of our own employees live and this is much better than going to ICI homes and telling them you're required to when you build 300 homes you're required to build 30 that somebody can um our $30,000 a year employee this is this is a better way to do it I appreciate the hard work that all of you put into it and to the committee you're right they worked for three years now to try and come up with this um so the motion on the floor is to accept um uh adopt the ordinance number 20 23-23 carista would you call the role Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey no Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent yes Mr Reinhardt Mr Brower yes the ordinance is adopted four five to one yes thank you all for coming in that takes us to uh oh we get to skip five thank God item six no we're going to five oh we're skipping six sir can we skip five I think they would be a little bit upset appeal of the pdrc denial of a variance case v247 good afternoon clay Urban director growth and Resource Management this is an appeal uh where the property owner made an application for a variance to the setback requirements for a swimming pool which is considered an accessory structure there are specific St setbacks for that this property uh as you may be aware of uh was subject to earlier variances due to the size um th this council did hear an PRI prior appeal for the single family home itself um that was uph the appeal was not upheld it was denied and so the home was able to go forward and build under the previous variants this went forward to your plrc with a recommendation of denial from staff and uh it's coming to you with a recommendation of denial from the pdrc um again uh this is uh an area where we're dealing with an accessory structure it's a swinging pool and pool deck associated with the setbacks applicable to a corner side corner lot when we treat a corner lot it's considered two fronts so therefore would have had to meet the 20 foot setback um again it's coming to you from there this is an appeal of the record as it was presented at the pdrc so your determination here is whether or not the pdrc aired in their interpretation of the evidence and uh presented at it the meeting and if they did to um uphold the appeal and thereby allow for the variance to occur or to deny the appeal and they would have to meet the requirements that would be applied to the accessory structure uh anything I miss pal as clay stated the uh your appeals limited to the evidence that was presented at the pdrc so no new evidence may be presented I've talked with Mr Watts about that um there are some uh pieces of evidence which is for the applicant that was submitted after you know the pdrc um my advice is you have to disregard that there letters of support in in the record um so your decision based on the record presented before the pdrc is you can reverse the decision you can affirm the the decision or you can modify um any order so after um you know the public speaks if there's any corrections that need to be made I'll come up and kind of uh address you know things that you have to disregard because it's considered new evidence is this is this a quasi judicial here do say that on the okay it is a quasi judicial hearing so if you have any exp part to communication you would have to disclose that anyone no okay uh Danny Robbins thank you chair um clay if I may real quick I know uh bethon Beach is a um an interesting uh uh layout in place and and sort of these Corner Lots from the get-go um they're kind of like a white elephant they're pretty rare down there any lot really is is is rare so I've tried to handle this and look at it uh individually since since we started but it was I didn't see anything in the report and and I want to try to get everybody to a yes in any of these tough decisions but was there anywhere noted what kind of hardships this would create I mean uh any comments from the neighbors what was their reason for the couple people that um maybe opposed it ba again based just at the testimony I think it was uh concerned with overdevelopment of the site they the adjacent property owners were not supportive of the original variants in the first place they felt that this would just be uh compounding overdevelopment of the site just best summary I can provide to you okay and that was was there anything that would um back it up whether it was through engineering to support those allegations uh or opinions is there anything that we can use to again it was just a testimony of the residents who are adjacent to it um they would be the ones who would be able to provide and everything that's was provided to staff and everything that was provided to the planning Land Development regulation commission has been included in your agenda packet so what you're looking at is that the pdrc responded to the testimony I would say at the meeting and real quick is there any other um structure or home with a pool like that uh I know a lot of the Lots I mean they're small so they take up a big footprint is there any other Lots where we can say hey this is um just like Joe Smith a block away is there anything like that that we can use this area well bathoon beach in this area there are a considerable number of lots that are 50 feet by 100 feet so there's been numerous variances for pools except and other accessory structures this one's kind of unique in that it's got a B8 which is a commercial zoning but it does allow single family residential as a uh permitted use um and it's a 45 ft typically your corner y Lots if this was under developed under newer standards would have increased widths because again uh we require them to be 15% more than the standard width of an interior lot to accommodate the additional setback on the corner side thank you yeah I got the I was pointing out that something as we can see unfortunately I can't increase the size but there's something of a similar nature at that corner Council um I don't have a problem with it uh especially seeing that in in you know just not wanting something just because you're not wanting it I don't know if that that holds a lot of uh weight uh but um I'll make a motion to uh Grant uh and approve the variance second Annie Robbins makes a motion to approve uh the variance um seconded by David Santiago yes you do this is a public hearing and I anybody that wants to speak if you've already turned in one you're fine if you haven't turn turn one in mark mark would you like to speak first but you have five minutes almost scared in this instance when you've already got a motion but um I appreciate the time again for the record Mark Watts with the law firm of cob Cole 231 North Woodland Boulevard Dand um and I have our client joa woring with me um and also Jessica gal who has worked on this um at the plan at the pdrc and um in the initial application as well I've got a couple things I just want to walk through um I do think this is a very distinct situation um I do think it's also Al one um that uh I think there's there was an error uh in the decision that was made below that I'll I'll walk through so as Pao and and Clay explained to you we're here on an appeal it's not how we normally appear before you we're we're looking back at the record that was created that brought us here um you know the request here is for a variance to a front yard for a structure to be constructed and essentially what is the rear yard we'll walk through that picture in just a second um the additional Varian is for for a you know reduction of that front yard set back by 10 ft and to allow an accessory structure in what is defined by the code as a front yard on a corner lot um it's consistent with what was authorized under the variance that um was approved in 2021 and we think there's a couple ways in which the pdc's decision varied from the criteria that they're supposed to follow in particular if you go back and look at the plc's discussion and the you know the items that they focused in on for basically voting to deny uh the variance application they were focused on the height of the structure and its proximity to the western boundary neither of which uh were subject of the variance application that was in front of them and both of which comply with the standards that are in the B8 zoning classification so this is the survey that's in your staff materials this is the survey that was presented to to the pdrc um you can see here um basically if you look to the on the on the top of the screen is the is the north that's where Kingfish Avenue comes along that's what creates a double Frontage lot with South Atlantic on the right hand side um so as a result here's what the year zoning classification does to this property it creates front yards on multiple sides and then it also has two side yards it actually doesn't have a rear yard under your definition the prior variance because it related to the house um that was being constructed at that point in time approved that modification that you see there the modification to push the front set back you know to where to to the 10ft line essentially the variance that was requested is for that area it's for the area that the pool would need to occupy in order to basically stay flush with what you would typically have with a pool behind your house in what you would otherwise Define as your backyard all right so just looking at what does that mean with regard to what's on the street so here's the house under construction there now and you see kind of the Shaded area that's to the right this is the picture in your staff report and all this does is overlay essentially the variance that was granted before everything you see shaded blue previously would have been you know the um the front yard that existed off of Kingfish with regard to height that was really the the focus of the discussion at pdrc and I think that's where the the first error you know kind of came into being there were several comments made in the pdc's deliberations that the height of the structure was the thing that had that been known had they known that it was going to be built that high maybe they wouldn't have granted the variance in 20121 and it helped them support denying the variance that was requested um most recently but it complies with the zoning uh it's the same height that is allowed for every other property in B8 it's actually if you look right behind there the structure is actually the same type of structure as the Condominiums behind it you've got a first level that's not occupiable because storm surge requirements you've got to keep that that first level level with non you know living living space and then you've got two residential you know two living space floors above that here you're going to have also a rooftop you know deck area and things of that nature but it complies with the B8 standards this was the other thing that the plrc focused on the proximity to the condominiums that are located to the West now if you go back that's that orange line there that's right now you've got essentially if it was a treated as a rear yard it's 20 ft accessory structures can go within 5T your sidey yard setback is also 5T so we're not asking to reduce that we're asking to comply with the law and with your regulations there we just have to deal with the fact that because of the nature of this particular parcel and if memory serves in 2021 when we were talking about this I think this is one of very few B8 Corner lots that you have within the county so um interestingly here as clay showed in his presentation you've got three additional Lots or two additional lots that are adjacent to this each one of those has the right to do an accessory structure to within 5T of the common line with the condominium building so that is a condition that if you approve this variance all three of the Lots will then be treated exactly the same so the improper basis that we we think the P DRC relied on number one complaints and concerns about the height of the structure complaints about the western boundary line neither of which were part of the the request for a variance um and both of which we seeking to apply or comply with um aen opinions expressed um about the potential for construction if only you'd bought different property you wouldn't have to come in here and ask for a variance for what you're building here the fact of the matter is variances exist to allow a specific piece of property to be developed in conformance with what would otherwise be the expectation there so this is the only parcel that our client owns they don't own the other properties and have the ability to come in and build something different on those so we think that on on those basis the pdrc aired by focusing on those wrong issues focusing on issues that were not in front of them with regard to the application now interestingly you know as I mentioned we comply with the other standards with regard to B8 and height became one of those very distinct issues you know the maximum height in B8 is actually 115t 115 ft we're staying at it was 35 the residential standard but B8 allows so many more intense things right you can do nightclubs you can do bars you can do um fire stations on the property single family is actually one of the least intense things that you can do there and all the application is seeking to do is allow this to be be developed in a manner that's very consistent with the adjacent Parcels that have the same zoning so um I want to introduce Joanna she had a couple things that she just wanted to add to uh introduce herself and and make a couple of comments and then we'll Reserve time for questioning and and uh obviously Mr chair if I can reserve a few minutes to come back up respond to any other comments Joanna hi thank you for having me today um my name is Joanna woring um I um am the homeowner of 6600 South Atlantic Avenue um my background I'm a nurse moving to the community I've got family in new M beach in the downtown area um and I'm excited to be joining the bethon community um I just wanted to thank you for hearing the proposal today um I am only looking to build a small uh single family home pool it will match the existing width of my home it won't obstruct or extend any farther along those boundaries um I um have had um about two years of extremely extensive planning for the home home um working with Anderson Dixon engineering um and as well as Hixon construction to to prepare for an Oceanfront build um so this has been a big um project for my entire team um we have been careful to follow all um County um zoning rules we've we've also gotten D approval with a clear goph for tortois survey before starting the project um as a part of this uh variance appeal process I have um been uh introducing myself to to some of my neighbors and I've gotten uh several voices of support from uh Neighbors in the immediate bathoon area as well as uh new samna and other areas of Lucha County so I appreciate getting to know my neighbors and I do want to say um that I you know uh am a normal responsible single family homeowner I know way intend to have a pool that's um in any way as an outdoor pool disrespectful to my neighbors uh in terms of noise concerns or anything like that and I do see in my immediate area that um you know the Condominiums to my West they actually have a community pool that they use as a as a private pool for their building and there are other single family homes in the area that have pools so um uh with this without this varience I don't think it'd be possible to put a a pool in that small of a structure in the back um so I really appreciate your consideration um thank you for hearing me today thank you U mark thank you we'll stay here for any other questions why don't we hear from the public okay and then you can uh Becky Carpenter who are you Glen you're Glenn come on up Glenn Glenn Reba uh R okay first of all I'll apologize because I was not prepared to talk today that was other people's jobs I live at U 6612 South Atlantic which is the condos adjacent to this new piece of property um we've been watching this project go up and it's amazing how they jammed this house into a 41t wide lot and 100 ft there's absolutely no room left whatsoever um to my understanding as I heard earlier an appeal must be based on the records and not new evidence that shall be introduced if I'm reading the notes that were sent to me earlier um outside um the outside of the plld drrc your own staff on a fivepoint basis turn this variance down um I'll just carry this a little bit further actually and the plld drrc actually turned it down six to one um so there's obviously concern about adding more space and covering up more more green space with this pool now one of the things was brought up I heard quickly and I'm just going to hopefully not step out of my bounds here but we're talking about a d8 lot I don't know I haven't had a chance to look up to square footage on a d8 lot but I think it's about 20,000 Square ft now this lot was obviously made d8 long long long time ago and in today's market it would never be a d8 lot anymore so the 35 foot is basically where all the other homes are there this is not like she built a small shotgun House people could see around it it didn't eat up the whole entire lot um so that's kind of what we have to say about it um we are very concerned that we be short-term rental we don't know that for fact we are concerned that so with that thank you for your time thank you uh Mike is it Tingler okay just tell us your name when yeah hi my name is Mike tanler I live at bethon beach I live right across from uh Joanna we also are building a new house I have no problem at all with her building a little SP pool on her live I I don't see what the fuss is um so I just wanted I'm just hoping that you will approve her variance thank you thank you uh David Harper Tom Johnson David Harper is not here Tom Johnson's not here Mark watts are you here and Paulo would any correction so far we have a few I believe Mr watt said something to the effect that there's only one of the few B8 zoning Corner Lots left I'm not sure that was actually ever included in in the record um one of the speakers mentioned the rationale for covering up the green space that's also new um and the rationale for the B8 zoning District was not introduced in the record um and I think the last spe Mr tanler um that was opinion that wasn't anything factual so that's okay I think if I can just go back up to one of my slides for a second um just wanted to briefly address I think Mr Ria's comment about you know kind of the um sort of following those existing rules um you know I think one of the reasons why you got the recommendation that you did was because of the you know staff and and pl staff at least you know is is kind of hamstrung and Tied by what those existing rules are here your existing regulations really affect this property if you look at the white area here that's the developable area when you apply the setback regulations that otherwise affect this property um you know I think you recognized and the pdrc recognized it previously um that it needed some relief in order to be put to reasonable use um we had we known that there was a plan at the time to include the pool that original variants would have also included uh the area that you see here in green that we're asking for you to approve today um you know I um yeah with that I think you know we appreciate your time today here to answer any questions you might have with regard to the request but again we're not seeking any variances to lot coverage or any of those other things it's simply that setback and that accessory use David Santiago thank you Mr chairman in debate um I support project actually I made the second I don't see any harm in in approving these people's pool uh to be there it's it's a very easy decision for me thank you Mr chair ready for a vote if my colleagues are Hansen I think I have a question for clay real quick um it says in in on page 5-15 that variances one and two literal interpretation of the zoning ordinance would require the proposed swimming pool to be constructed to meet setbacks and that it could be redesigned to meet the set back without need for a variance is that true that it could be or or that there's no way it could be and I'm going to use his image that shows you the pool that could be basically constructed the one without the Green Spot Not the green spot so basically this area here got that can all be regardless of whether it's a pool anything else that is uh the 5- foot setback as Mr Watts talked about this applies to principal structure and accessory structures this would apply to accessory structures and is it and and and principal structure and my next question is is it standard or not standard that everybody has a front yard side yard backyard side yard this this is typical for a corner lot in that corner Lots because they front so nobody nobody nobody has a backyard in the corner lot the way our code is written that is correct so nobody hey coming to my backyard oh I don't have one go my really large side yard say it Jake what the what now the way our code is I got to go back and check to see if I have one now all right so so is I'll ask you offline about that my my question will be for you tomorrow is do we have any ordinances at State you shall have something in your backyard of which these people can't but that's a different discussion we'll have that okay thanks that's all I have oh and this is in unincorporated unincorporated yes right and just to clarify it again the way our code defines with Corner side yards is that they do have two front and two side as opposed to say two front and this being your rear yard and this being a sidey yard so that is in our code right now to clarify any other questions Troy Kent just because one of the neighbors said it I just want to hear from the applicant if you don't mind are you planning on utilizing this as a short-term rental just primary residence it'll be a primary residence yeah thank you very much um all you know that's last question I had you okay with the comment chairman uh yes let me hold hold up just just a second Paulo was that permissible or do we have to unhear that no I I I believe that was actually discussed it was definitely a point of argument with the very first variance of the what was the use of the property and we had to say you know we can't look at the ownership if they do you know a hotel motel they um the ba zoning district is the only zoning District that allows both single family and hotel motel use thank you Troy I could see that he wanted to speak so go ahead continue yeah and thank thank you Paulo for for jumping up for that and and just my comments I'll just say welcome to vucha County and uh you know it looks like your your architect and you and whoever else has done a done a good job of of putting something there that you're proud of and that you can you can utilize um so wish you the best of luck Jake were you up you're good no I I just I want to clarify on your cour PR of Lucia County bethon Beach it will not be a vacation rental correct because you can't have vacation RS there correct from a code perspective that's yes sir the zoning is B8 if they opted to try and put a hotel motel which is a use that's allowed by come back to you for that they would have to go through and there's a different code there's a different application of the floorida building code for a commercial building as opposed to a single family this has been constructed as a single family pursuant to the single family requirements within the B8 so they cannot utilize that structure for commercial use also the way our code is written any occupancy for less than 30 days is considered a hotel motel and if we received complaints we would follow up and ensure that code enforcement was ensuring proper occupancy of the building and Mr Watts the applicant is well aware of that I'm sure that's correct this is a single family residence okay I don't see anybody else the uh uh the motion on the floor we're we're being asked to um either reverse airm or modify by this variance the the variance was denied your motion was to approve correct Danny's motion was to approve I I second it and yes to approve the variance okay do everybody understand what we're voting on so it's when when you say a variance it throws it all may have to clean it up but I'm just saying what the motion the technical wording is that you are approve upholding the appeal of the applicant for the variant thereby approving the variance so she can build her pool yes sir okay Danny you want to amend accordingly to uphold the appeal that's the motion he Mr Irvin just did it well what clay said I'll second with Clay said okay every I just wanted to make sure everybody knew what we were voting on um uh Carissa you want to call the role Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey yes Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent yes Mr Brower yes thank you appreciate the time item 7 ordinance 20242 small scale comprehensive plan Amendment for the commercial future land use designation of go ahead clay yes sir uh this is a small scale Amendment uh the property owner has acquired this land as you can see from the aerial it's near the intersection of Park Avenue an Old Mission it currently has a commercial designation and this image here showing the current future landage will show you what we're dealing with they have um acquired this property there's an existing home since 1972 is on there so it's a non-conforming structure the owner would like to restore it back to a residential use so therefore they're asking for a change to low impact Urban low impact and a zoning of R4 which is a subsequent item uh staff reviewed it it's consistent as you can see from the uh uh images in front of you there all around it is residential this will not create create an inconsistency will not create necessarily a spot zoning and it will allow for the residential use it will allow for the size of the lot to be conforming with the R4 zoning which is your subsequent item number eight so it went to the planning and Land Development regulation commission with a recommendation of approval from your staff uh it's coming to you with a recommendation from them 70 if there's any questions staff is available Danny Robbins motion to approve second motion to approve by uh Danny Robbins second is by David Santiago any questions for staff any debate all in favor say I I I any opposed I and the motion carries six to zero oh my five to zero unless he comes out and says I okay item eight go ahead it's the resoning that would take it to R for so this would be consistent with the item that you just approved Mr chairman move to approve motion to approve by David Santiago second by Danny Robbins any questions for staff any debate all in favor say I I any opposed and that is also approve 5 to zero Mr chairman point of order yes sir just to be sure a couple couple weeks ago we um we talked about absent members and and asking for the vote when they get back so we are we we going to do that when when Troy gets back instead of just log in the vote as 50 we certainly can yeah I just from a from a uh and maybe Mike you can give us a a ruling on that but I think I think if we're here and we're called present then we cannot be excused from any vote for any reason as long as uh he heard the content of both those items on speaker yeah you can got it oh they all talking um I just want to make sure chairman that that we don't you know we don't go through ethics and they they preach that that we don't uh that we don't omit somebody's vote uh and I without reason and the answer I gave was because it was quasi judicial specifically was legislative it's not restrictive thank you Troy would you like to vote on seven and eight yes I would uh I'm a yes on both thank you very much so the motion carries six to zero the next is a proposed vacation which sounds Timely proposed vacation of a portion two weeks or three week vacation of the plat of the assessor subdivision of [Music] oin good afternoon Tad casbeer County engineer item nine is a request from Miss Bloodworth to vacate a portion of Duran Avenue it is a platted unopened roadway uh there's a structure that's actually been built across it back in 1972 And this would uh alleviate the encroachment that's created by that uh structure the county has no use for this particular Road and recommends approval there were no uh issues with utilities thank you David Santiago move to approve second motion to approve by David Santiago and the second is by Danny Robins um questions comments debate all in favor say I I any opposed and it's vacated six to zero item eight say Public Work show now this afternoon huh yeah it's his anniversary his birthday too I think resolution 2024 resoning from The General commercial to the urban single family residential um zoning classification that's that's the one we just did 10 we're on 10 sir so I have to Turn My Page not just flip it update oh it's 253 update on the paid off Beach parking and Beach tolling contract Solutions good afternoon Ben Bartlett Public Works director um we're here today because we are received we received Direction just about a year ago to move forward with a paid off Beach parking program as well as looking to include some Automation in our beach toll contract we need some direction from Council today on a few items uh to include in our solicitations that are ready to go out uh on the street for vendors to run those programs for us so real quick I'm just going to kind of run through a little bit of what we're looking at um as far as the off Beach parking goes we're looking at a license plate recognition technology lprs we we're going to have fixed and mobile lprs throughout our uh parking lot uh we're going to include credit card kiosks at our larger Lots Mobile payment will be available through a variety of means uh we're going to include realtime status of those lots through our beach app and as directed by Council we're going to provide or we're looking to provide complimentary annual parking passes to valusa County residents this is a rendering of kind of a typical situation you would see at our uh parking lots with fixed LPR cameras and uh catching um not catching but documenting the vehicles that pull in and pull out for the purposes of uh ensuring that they've paid and enforcement as far as the tolls goes uh same type technology license plate recognition technology fixed lprs at our beach ramps um our low volume ramps we're looking to fully automate this will allow us to have those ramps open all the time throughout the year uh again ramp status on the on the beach app so folks coming in can see if the ramp that they're headed to is open are closed uh we're looking to try automated opening and closures as opposed to manual and uh at our high volume ramps we're looking at a combination of Automation and uh human toll takers because we know there's going to be a lot of people that are going to head to those ramps that may not have paid already and we need to get those folks on and off the beach quick rendering of uh what we anticipate a a typical type situation You' be looking at for one of our uh Beach ramps under this new program so real quick um one of the Hang-Ups we had in the initial solicitation was the change of that allows the county to uh enforce parking uh currently our legal staff is working with the sheriff's legal staff on a on a mou that would allow uh our thirdparty vendor that we select to enforce those parking uh citations and then we're looking at multiple types of options that Council can can choose from from a tiered schedule so if someone doesn't pay at a parking lot they receive a citation in the mail kind of how you would um from like a sun pass situation where you go through a toll and don't pay or your license plate isn't isn't uh registered so you would get a citation for an amount of money greater than the toll uh what you I'm sorry the parking fee that you wouldn't PID normally and then if you don't pay that after X amount of days it it increases to a certain amount we're looking at um a vendor or company that can uh if you have multiple citations they can prevent you from registering your car not just in Florida and other states and then finally this is an option um obviously somebody with multiple outstanding citations if they get picked up pulling into a lot you always have the option to tow or boot their vehicle and that's something that we'll we can discuss later on when we're working through those options at council's discretion what they want to do another uh item we need direction on is uh credit card fees and sales tax currently uh Beach tolls because they're considered tolls don't pay sales tax the credit card processing fees are included in those um typically what you see at parking situations is the sales tax because they're cashless and this program that we're proposing is also cashless the sales tax and the uh processing fees are added on to whatever we set the rate at uh obviously we're looking for direction on whether Council wants to move in that direction um regarding the these types of fees real quick on the revenue and expenditures um this was a discussion this is part of the discussion anytime we talk about these uh fees and the tolls but the beach itself to cost about $26 million to operate of that $26 million $15 million or 58% is subsidized by the general fund about 30% or $7.8 million comes from user fees and and and the money we collect on the beach and then we have other Revenue associated with the concessionaires the Marine Science Center so on and then legal considerations um I can run through this real quick pao's been up here a little bit uh any changes to the beach access fees the beach tolls will require a 3- fths council vote um and then obviously these fees must be reasonable and uniform for the charter um so anytime you give a discount for the residents which we already do on the annual pass essentially it's the same fee that the non-residents are paying the general fund is just essentially buying that amount down and then um like I said earlier the beach fee the beach access fees are treated as tolls if those were to change to where we would offer them complimentary for some reason then sales tax would have to be collected because they could no longer be considered tolls according to the state statute got the KN of approval from Palo so I got it right so Revenue um the spread sheeet you see here we'll bring it up uh in more of an interactive format so as Council makes decisions on how they want to go how yall want to go with the fees we can plug those numbers in real time and and show you what the revenue currently on the upper part of this uh spreadsheet you see there the tolls we estimated uh passes sold for the next oncoming year based on a three-year average we kept the current uh Beach toll schedule in there and that's the projected Revenue what we did change is currently our estimate ated toll contractor we pay about 31% of that total uh Revenue which uh subtract that out gives you your net uh based on the the solicitation we're looking at we're estimating 27% on those costs um to collect the beach tolls you know we'll know for sure after we get the the proposals back and see what their cost but based on our consultant that we brought in to help us with this solicitation that's what we're estimating on the parking side um we estimated the number of passes sold our consultant looked at not just new you know new Suna has some pretty accurate numbers as far as parking off Beach parking on our beach we looked at the number of people that visit our beach and we looked at um other municipalities throughout the state that also offer off Beach parking and came up with uh these estimates based on that data um the main one I'd like to point everybody to is the off beach daily parking pass so that would be non-residents paying for a Day Parking paring pass if you take the 2600 spaces that we have uh identified for off Beach paid parking you multiply that by 365 days a year this number you see here at 306,000 is roughly 32 33% uh people that's the number it's a pretty conservative number obviously we'll know it's an estimate it's you know we're dealing with human behavior here so when when this parking program gets implemented we'll have a better idea obviously of of how many people are paying the DAT pass but based on the data we have this is what we're estimating and just for purposes I put in $20 for the off beach daily pass and $100 for the annual non-resident pass obviously the resident pass is zeroed out um that's what newna charges so that's what I went with right there and then finally just last slide what are we looking for direction on the off Beach parking the daily fee and the non-resident I'm assuming we're going to continue with the complimentary uh annual pass for residents on the off Beach parking beach access toll schedule should Council decide they want to change that and then we'll need direction on the credit card sales tax and the enforcement options so with that I'd like to turn it over to council we'll pull up that spreadsheet and happy to answer any questions you guys might have regarding we have our two Consultants Chris and John here that can speak to the technology or the parking side of this if you have any specific questions uh regarding that as well does anyone have questions for Ben uh David Santiago yeah I just want to start with a comment and then a question Mr chair um first um staff you guys did a great job on this um I I think most of us got to see this presentation before this and I was was very impressed with the options um the technology that's being deployed um but but at the same time I wanted to share to the council I think what I want to insert a new idea into this that has never been discussed before I think we should consider um possibly with these this new information allowing residents to not pay to park on the beach that's never been discussed here so I wanted to make sure that we consider that optional I wanted to play a prank on my friend here as we know I I want to compliment my friend Troy because this is this is your baby and I want to are you serious or are you messing with me I'm messing with you I know this is your baby and we're bringing it back so uh I told staff I was going to do that to see if uh you responded so look forward to the discussion and the options thank you Mr chair for the latitude and their little humor joy joy Kent strike one uh David Santiago I agree with his first comment good work by staff on this um so my first question is who's who's going to take all the risk with the equipment the vendor so this the vendor the way we're writing the solicitation is the vendor will be providing all the equipment all the maintenance uh essentially a turnkey option and and that second um piece the maintenance because that ocean is unforgiving that salt is unforgiving but the conversation you and I had the vendor or vendor whoever it's going to be feels very confident in the products that they have today that they could handle this yes sir our consultant uh Chris Wilson here uh spoke with a lot of the uh you know his focus is on the technology and the equipment spoke with the manufacturers find out which ones could handle that Sal air environment we feel confident that they can so I'm not a huge fan of QR codes in fact I may could possibly could be accused of if someone's like hey you know uh put your phone on this QR code I don't want to talk to them ever again um I just don't feel like they're super userfriendly what what is the easiest way and I'm thinking about not just just my parents but many of your parents and and many of our residents out there what's the easiest way for the off Beach parking for our residents to be able to have access to park in these parking lots at at no additional charge because they're already paying for it right correct so we're not just doing QR codes there'll be signage where they could do QR codes where they could use our beach app we're going to integrate that the vendor will be required to have a customer service center where if someone wants to go in person during regular working you know business hours and and register that way they can um and and we even thought about folks not everybody has a smartphone right there's even an option to do a text you know to uh to to pay that way so we we're trying to include everybody and we understand that some folks don't well you said to pay I'm I'm talking about to register register okay okay make sure we're on the same page here um because first I want to talk about the residents to make make sure that you know it's there's an ease of use for them to be able to park there I liked in the presentation that there's license plate readers um but what happens what can we do as a council actually I should say someone isn't aware of this and they get a ticket and they're a resident uh I want to make sure that we have a way for valuchi County residents to back that ticket off of them and and not Hammer them with that maybe the first couple of times do do we have anything in the works where we can do that absolutely like I mentioned there's a customer service center we want people to register as vucha County residents like you say they're already paying for it through their taxes so you know if somebody at council's discretion were to get a ticket and council could decide to give them a mulligan for lack of a best better term they could bring their citation in within x amount of days uh or they could call the service center or we'd have an online component opponent and they could reg they could register okay and then get the if that's something Council desired to do we could that system is set up to do that so so there's an option and I I keep my notes from all of our meetings and the last time we talked about this was March 21st 2023 and back then the beach pass the yearly the yearly beach pass for the resident we sold 56,000 were the numbers that I had at $25 a piece so I felt like I had to find $1.4 million because I never want to come to this Council and bring a burden um without having a solution and and I felt like this was more than a fix to find that $1.4 million that I felt like we needed to find to offset for our residents and then the next piece is and can you can you punch the numbers in here because it looks like um uh current parking and if we do this off Beach parking we're we're going to be at like 11.9 million which is almost double what we what we currently have now almost and can you change so if we're looking at charging $20 a day for off Beach parking we're currently charging $20 a day to drive on the beach that is a premium to park on the beach is an absolute premium and in my opinion I feel like that should be $30 a day and if our visitors for our visitors and if they don't want to pay that that's okay Park in our off Beach parking at $20 a day if you don't want to drive on the beach and Andor park on the beach so in that same vein if we're at $20 a day and then the annual pass is $100 a day to keep that same ratio if we go to $30 a day the annual pass I believe for non-residents should be $150 a day can you punch those numbers in do you have that up already sir and where are we at now 30 on the uh day pass and then up at there would be 150 and that also adjusts the combo the combo pass for uh non-residents which includes our Inlet Parks so that would um bump your Revenue up um significantly um okay now do me a favor take the residents out of this equation put them at zero so make the annual resident pass zero yes and that uh you'll see the annual combo pass drops to 20 which is just your co uh your Inlet park pass and um and then that would be the revenue there so it with those changes your net revenue increases I think by $2 million if you want to switch to the other tab there so it's 11.9 in the original scenario and then if you go to the what you just changed sir that's 13.4 so it's an increase of with those changes it's a total net increase of 1.5 million dollar and that's making the day pass $30 the res non-resident annual pass $1 150 and then zeroing out the annual resident pass gotcha and to me uh Council if I understand this correctly we don't need a super majority vote today we're not making that happen we would just be sending this back to staff for them to bring back a resolution for us to vote on because I'd be very concerned to go forward with without a full Council without Mr Reinhardt here uh but I've got to tell you that is that is exciting to me that our residents and and I'll save the rest of my comments for debate because I do have some there's other questions so thank you yny Robbins uh thank you chair um Ben good job uh with this do we have the um the P the company that we put the RFP out to uh here today yes sir we have two to we have John ogelby and Chris Wilson if you got a question about the technology or you got a question about the parking they can answer the numbers and the assumptions and how we came to some of the numbers I know this is perfect scenario stuff and and I've learned here especially here in in the past some of what we did you I don't want to rush a good thing okay and and count our chickens before they hatch uh I saw it with the jail you know when we did the subsistance fees we calculated at this well after a year year to years not so much uh I don't want um that to happen again but it happens so there's a lot of things we can't um account for storms another Co because we have a an election year uh anything's possible these days but how did they come to uh some of those assumptions on the numbers how did they come on up I like I like the numbers I just want some more concrete certainly uh Chris Wilson with Meen hunt so we're the prime consultant for the project so we looked at a month-by-month utilization uh of the of the county spaces so we took the spaces that were included within the county the 2600 and basically put a uh we don't have any firm data on that but put a monthly utilization based on Peak and off peak and basically that assumed us to be a roughly 53% utilization of those spaces and then we made an assumption that there's a 60% factor of those spaces that are used are going to be done with day passes as opposed to the annual so those are the factors that we use and we did again we look at it on a month-by-month basis to get that 53% okay all right thanks I think that's all the and Mr Robbins you're correct I mean these are estimates and I mean I can we you know the the the beach tolls are hard numbers that we G we have and as we move through the parking program we'll have those hard numbers as well but you know at this point in order to give Council an estimate on the revenue we it's a fairly conservative number like I said if you take all those it's roughly 32 33% of the and just so I have some clarity in my own mind are we just so I understand this correctly are we voting on on just the RFP today we're not voting on so any um Pala will have to come back with an actual ordinance that changes um whatever that implements the parking fees that if there are changes uh Council deci Ides to make on the tolls we're going to use the information provided today in our solicitation um so that the vendors have an idea of what they're going to be charging in addition we've got a couple other things we need to talk about as well the the the citations and then and then the credit card fees but we'll work those in and obviously um when we come back there still can be a discussion on that yeah and the reason I asked I just like I said didn't want to get ahead of ourselves you know I'd like to get this uh you know I'll save my comment um I have no more questions and we'll have more accurate information on the cost of the program um how quick you think we can get it up and up and going if we decided to move forward so the beach toll contract is up October 1st um So the plan that we've laid out is basically after this meeting we'll the solicitations will hit the street we'll select vendors will come back to council probably around August uh to select those vendors and then we're going to look to implement the program starting on October 1st the beach tolls the automation will take time but they it's written in that they basically have to take over the current operation and we anticipate you know to get everything equipment ordered and all those uh lprs and everything set up will probably take about 12 to 18 months so figure uh the the next Beach um the not the not the we have this current season and we have the following current season because the season after that the beach toll system will be up and running in terms of automation but the current vendor will be in place by October 1 they'll just take over essentially what they're doing now and then they'll be swapping the equipment in out the parking what we're looking at is again going into effect on October one we can get the signage and everything like that up right away they can do mobile LPR enforcement right away we can have all those things ready to go and then there'll be probably about a six Monon Le time to get the fixed lprs and all those kinds of things ready to go but we can have the parking system up pretty quick but it'll take about six months to get a lot of the the fixed equipment implemented just in your experience been uh in Council how how long do you think we should say for instance uh we do get this program up and going in in 18 months um how long do you think we should give it ideally to see what actual revenues we we bring in before we go the next step in terms of zeroing out Beach passes and and free uh beach access and all that stuff um what I would say to that question is with the parking Revenue I mean the beach Revenue we can kind of see where that's going to go um the parking Revenue um you know you're going to get the sign you I would say probably within the first year you're going to have a good idea of of what we're seeing how people's behavior adjust now that we're charging for parking if it adjusts at all um but you know the usage rate and things like that I would say one good Beach season will give you an idea what the peak season's like and then probably a couple months after so I would say with within 12 months of implementing the program you would have a good idea what the data is and then really I mean we did a three-year average so I mean it es and flows so um you know and like you said different weather events can affect things and all that so I would what we probably have 10 to 12 15 years of beach data to rely on to see how that goes the more data you get the more accurate information you can get but I think you could see trend lines form pretty quick and lastly when you were figuring your data did you go back during the covid days a couple years back did you go that far back when you're making your average because that's actually a reality now you know and we have to discuss it because we're well what we saw I mean we saw initially the shutdown but then what we actually saw during Co is amounts of visitors to the beach because people couldn't go do other things so in a lot of ways Co was an outlier to the to the High um and then you know you got storms and hurricanes that can kind of push that number down which is why we did an average the vendor is going to own the equipment they're going to maintain the equipment have you talked to them and do we need to discuss today or at the follow-up meeting the length of their contract our plan is to go with a five-year initial term with a five with the opportunity for a 5year extension this allows them to uh recoup the cost of their Capital Equipment within the first five years and then if they're doing a good job we can re up them for another five okay and you mentioned some of the less used uh approaches will be open all the time does that mean that we'll be able to drive on the beach at night non non- turtle season when I mean open it means during the offseason we uh typically will close select uh Beach approaches during the day because we have to man it with a human being and you might get 15 people going through there so so still be unless the council decides to change the beach code and allow people to get on the beach so there'll still be Gates there there will still be Gates there to close them during non-w working hours but they'll be open during the offseason when sometimes they're not no toll booth just the readers correct okay um uh can we go to page uh PowerPoint slide 10-9 page 9 and as I understand it Ben as as you get off of that net revenue of 13 mil um right net Beach Revenue in your slide the way she just had it presented uh page nine chiss it's the pies um right now on the left uh I take it that Revenue drives expenditure to the to the right we get 26 million 476 576 so that's what we budget um the the blue part of the revenue pie that 7,800 th000 that's that's what we're making bigger and hopefully making the green general fund subsidy smaller no yes that's exactly right by by it's 78 we're going to 13 so $5 million should should do a $5 million chunk out of the green fund uh subsidy um many many people have told me that this will pay for the beach it it's not going to pay for the beach it's going to pay for the business of of up updating our park inting I believe that and and and allowing some people to uh uh Park a little Freer my next question maybe to you or or to Jessica is H how much much does the beach really cost and you can't say $26 million because that's what we spend because that's what we get how how much do we should we spend on the beach and and I want to play Devil's Advocate because I I want to I want to drive on the beach for free but I but I don't I don't want to uh sure change the beach if we have Coastal restoration and other things should should we citizens be paying that $25 so we can do more Coastal Restorations so we can do more Beach things I I don't know well you know Beach restoration is something that's obviously been a a topic in the news lately we have been fortunate to get about $80 million in Beach restoration funds that we're currently implementing we're pursuing a uh a study with the Army Corps that would lead eventually to LGE uh other Beach restoration projects if the council were to decide to go in that direction those projects do require a match um that's something that we've never undertaken before uh on our beach um depending on the size of the project those matches could be substantial um so that's not something you would see in this chart uh but I would say that you know this is an accurate representation of the current cost of the beach um and what we SP spend on it in terms of our Capital costs you know operations and maintenance Beach safety all the sea turtle uh conservation stuff that we do maintaining the hcp this is a representation of that I would I would kind of reverse what you were saying I would say these are the cost and then we get the revenue that you see on that pie chart and then the green portion is that works for me designed to match what we actually thank you very much that's all I have chairman David Santiago thank you Mr chairman did the I couldn't remember did the chart of the P the estimations include fine Revenue include I'm sorry what uh the chart uh the Excel spreadsheet we were working with earlier did it include potential fine revenue from the Florida Inland navigational District no uh for people parking unauthorized fines no no sir I apologize that's something we'll have to discuss as well is is um one one thing on the fines on their citations is you can have that tiered citation level the more you incentivize the vendor in terms of uh letting them keep a portion of those citations obviously the county would want to be made whole with whatever they should have paid maybe some extra but whatever you can uh leave to the vendor it incentivizes them to be more aggressive on enforcement and also um it'll probably drive down the overall price of the program the fixed cost that we would pay just for them to collect the money do does our uh consultant have any projections on you know what an average fines are and things like this is it 10% utilization 2% 1% I don't know John Oglesby CEO of the parking Whisperer so are you asking about a financial projection or a percentage or either or so that we can consider possibly plugging in an estimated conservative number maybe absolutely so the in an environment very similar to this the average number of violations people that don't pay is about 8 to 10% what would that what well okay I have yet to give you a number what it would cost but okay we can get there 8 10% thank you you bet um I was going to say what is that number but we have to decide what the fine is in order to get that to put it into the spreadsheet um uh Ben the the one thing I I struggled with let put you on a spot here um I haven't picked on Public Works yet today so I got to make that's okay you missed your chance with tab the the 12 12 to 18 months for implementation can you re-explain that to me again to make sure I can sure so the vendor will take over the toll contract on October 1 from the current vendor you won't really see a difference initially in how they're taking the tolls the the the new fees could go into effect all of that the vendor is going to be required to submit a transition plan can I pause you for a second sure how long before the vendor takes over will that vendor know that he's the he or she's the awarded contracte uh hope hopefully within 60 days 60 days prior to October 1 we'll we'll make a selection we'll bring it to Council in August that'll give them uh September and October or September end of August and September to uh to basically take over the contract they're just going to probably going to come in and just hire everybody else kind of like what you see with similar type contracts and then they're going to so they're going to you're not going to see anything different on the beach so to speak initially and then they're going to order all the that equipment that they have to do to to get those ramps set up and then what you're going to see is like on a certain night maybe they can swap out two of the ramps so they'll come in with they'll have a the whole thing ready on a skid and they'll come in and they'll the lprs and everything and all the equipment will come in and the toll booth will leave one night and or leave that night and the and the new equipment will be there and it'll be automated and that's where so I I want to do it a non-government timeline I want to do it you know private investor timeline okay if we approve this 12 to 18 months I think it's too much to me um now obviously they have 60 days so if we were to pass this that vendor will know that we have implemented this or when they when they submit the bid and then 60 days prior to them taking over the job they'll already know they're the awarde so they have 60 days there um I can can we put in the RFP that 12 months from the time that they're noticed of the awarde they're going to be the awarde that all ramps are up and running we can see if what see what the response is we can and we can even make that a requirement with the toll takers they don't necessarily have to have the equipment out there to make all the ramps open so we can make that a requirement like basically in 12 by 12 months you got to maintain all you got to have all the ramps open and if they don't have their if they don't have the equipment in time or whatever then they got to keep the toll takers out there to keep those ramps open so we could achieve the goals of automation regardless it'll cost the more money there is some lead time I mean I've we've talked amongst ourselves there is some lead time on some of this equipment it's uh I mean I can tell you it's signal equipment is the same thing the lead time on this stuff is is tough but we can definitely put that in the solicitation that's just my my thoughts guys 12 months from the time that they noticed they're up and running CU they have 60 days ready to prep so um want to think private sector mode um on if I could shift into maybe a little comments Mr chair I don't know where we're at but um I wanted to Troy I wanted to put a couple caveats on my thoughts uh I'm not a fan of the Mulligan as you described the the Mulligan if we have signage based on what staff put out there right um and someone just ignores our signage and go ahead go this is my thoughts and you ought to pay the the fee for the day and you know what you can now register for the rest of the year to not have to pay going forward but I don't want to I don't want to say incentivize that's probably a bad term but um I want people to respect the signage if we have it out there it's pretty clear you pay or you don't and then that's an additional Revenue Source right if you screw up you pay that's just my thoughts on the Mulligan side um and then to go to Danny's point I have some concerns similar to you Danny on we have the projections and I wanted to to throw out the idea to the council um on when it comes to the resident um uh not paying uh for Beach premium access I support it um but I think we should put something some rails in there with some type of uh of sunset when what I hear me out completely here a reauthorization uh Clause all right um and and I say that tactically um so gives us time I think we would have to get with our finance guys out there to find out if we take a dive on this if it does I hope not I think the numbers are conservative but if we were to take a dive on this we can act on it or have it not reauthorized and our finance folks can tell us if it's Pick 12 months 18 months I don't know the number but so that it aligns with our budgeting conversation so that we know okay it didn't work out for the free parking because of the costs and we'll just allow it to Sunset and not reauthorize it and then our finance team can incorporate those numbers for the next fiscal year so it could be a little bit of a risk the first year I think it'll be good but it includes some guard rails I think that's some of my colle including me would be comfortable with we could come back you know once we have some data in about a year's time around budget season and present that to council if they want to decide I'd rather do it differently I'll tell you why Ben I'd rather do it that we have to it sunsets unless it's reauthorized the reason for that is is it it allows us to govern that a little bit less than um I got to choose my words carefully here um it puts us in a different posture to deal with it um uh simpler um so it's a scheduled event there you go it just happens unless we take action to reauthorize it and that's what where I prefer um I think it'll make life easier for us whether it's 12 months 18 months from now and I'm specifically only talking about the resident side of the free parking so if we approved this right we would say something along the lines when this implements fuchia County residents will have you know free premium Beach parking for up to for the next 12 months or 18 months and that's the message and then we decide whether or not we reauthorize it at that time permanently or whatever you see where I'm going um and do we want to discuss the other directions you need you need a direction on credit card fee I think charge the credit card fee that's my thoughts charge the taxes on top of the whatever fees youall set that's my thoughts thank you Mr chair TR K thank you chairman and this isn't nope you take the five off just for a moment because I I still had a question a couple questions so to our consultant how how confident are you in these numbers and here's why I ask the numbers that you came up with back on March 21st 2023 I came up with my own numbers one of my fellow council members talked about me scratching down on a on a paper napkin which you know I mean it's it's actually a a legal piece of paper uh but your numbers and my numbers were not very far off so how confident are you because there's been a question raised about you know a little concern with with these numbers because my numbers were very conservative and I feel like your numbers are also conservative can you touch on that so I would agree that they're they're fairly conservative uh the financial figures the estimated passes sold we took fiscal years 21 22 and 23 understanding the storm impact on 23 and we're able to do a three-year average and that's the numbers that you're looking at so it doesn't account for any inflation or anything like that so I would say very confident in the numbers that we've used to to provide that okay whole side of that of things from the from the parking perspective um you know we've we're we're again quite confident that it's a conservative number as well as far as utilization across other municipalities and areas that we've seen similar programs implemented okay all right thank you for that and then I I've heard the comment a couple of times and I'm glad you're back because I uh councilman Santiago because i' I've got a comment for what you've said but I've heard the comment a couple of times and and now we can start my five minutes I'm in debate the comment a few times about you know we give this to our residents for free and I've had to get away from that myself because our residents are currently paying for this they're they're the ones that give us our our budget and and they're paying for this right now so um I I say we're going to allow them to use it at no extra charge because they're already they're already paying for this and and uh councilman Santiago as far as the the no Mulligans I wasn't what I was talking about is the first section I'm sorry the second section which is the off Beach parking the off Beach parking I never envisioned that we would charge our residents for off Beach parking ever that residents would park there at no extra charge because they've already paid for that that the Mulligan would be for them if they didn't register they didn't know I'm thinking about my parents quite honestly not knowing I they will know because they're my parents but those individuals that don't know and they pull in and park and then they get to citation but they're Valia County residents that's who I'm concerned about making sure that we have a plan in place to be able to adjust that one time maybe two times and help them get registered so that they can park there like new Suna Beach you have to register to park at New sua's Lots I don't know how well or how um little they they reach out to the community to do that I'm not sure but I want us to make sure that we have a great education campaign where where we're letting our residents know so that was strictly that comment was strictly for for our residents if you're a non-resident and you pull in there and you park and you didn't pay no Mulligans absolutely I'm I'm with you uh you know so I just wanted to make sure I I I touched on that and then you know Council I'll just say and I'm not opposed to the sunset because I can read a room and you know sometimes you know you not sometimes a lot of times you know this is this is a this is a give and take this is working together and it gives an opportunity at least to try it and to see how well this can work I believe if we allow our residents to drive on the beach at no extra charge this is a huge win for valuch County residents this quits giving away one of our most valuable assets to our visitors this helps our most financially vulnerable residence I'm one of six kids my dad worked for 35 40 years in this town hanging wallpaper and painting I'm just telling you guys a true story my mom was a stay-at-home mom she raised six kids my mom would take her six kids and put us in the back of a station wagon and bring us to the beach and us six kids thought it was a day at Disney World she'd bring a loaf of bread and a bar a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly and and we had a great day there's a lot of families like that and I'm telling you I think it's a huge win for our residents on the west side in the land Deltona Pearson I'm fortunate my family we can walk to the beach but if you live in Deltona you're not walking to the beach if you live in Dand or Pearson you're not walking to the beach and and this helps them tremendously I also think about the financial stimulus this does for our County and our Beachside people will spend money at the restaurants they will go to the gift shops they will get their fuel over there etc etc etc and uh there's a ton of positives that I see with this when I sat down with staff and our teams meeting and we went over this information um I was I was super impressed because this this help helps us solve what I see as as as a problem it brings money that we did not have that is paid by people outside of uchia County and now I'm looking over at Mr Dempsey who who railed against this and your own right and I listen and I did listen to it I'm anxious to hear what everybody has to say because to get anything accomplished you know we got to work together we got to we got to give it a try and uh you know I'm I'm excited to help help each and every one of you with all of all of your initiatives and uh I just ask that you know at the least we let staff bring this back to us with a full counsel and and let us all put our two cents in thank you Johanson yes sir I I got a couple uh following questions um Ben we talked about in our briefing um how people could register um we're kind of having this conversation about the Mulligan how hard is it going to be to register uh we're going to put the word out um we're going we're going to make it as easy as possible for people to register and people is there an option to register online yes so so that takes the Mulligan out of it doesn't it um or or should if if I drive anywhere and I see residence free register online I should be able like my kid to park in in no parking Zone log on register and get my free ticket well I mean they'll have to show proof of they'll have to be a process that's probably it's instantaneous pull into a parking spots so what's my kid going to do he's going to say heck with it I'm going to pay the 30 bucks this time and do it next time and forget and I'm we're going to make a lot of money on my kid is what I'm getting at so um but but that's beside the point the the other thing is with the sunset I just want to go through the timeline with you to see if if I'm sharp on this um September 24 any piggyback opportunities out there too early to ask piggyback or or for like selecting a vendor right to do it quicker uh we're having this is a pretty customized system so we have lot of specifications so if we select somebody in August they take over in October of 24 we get give them till October 25 to put everything in and start using it uh well the part the parking will go live October 1 the signage all of that stuff October one of 2024 with people without automation well we're you're talking Beach tolls so got it Beach tolls because I think there's some concern about the the um estimates for the usage of the parking the beach to numbers we know these numbers are are we count everybody that comes on the beach so on the parking the parking will go live um October 1 and they'll put up signs and all that stuff can go live they will have human beings with mobile LPR cameras to do the enforcement got so we'll start seeing that Revenue come in pretty quick I would say it's probably going to take some time to ramp up but yeah so can we can we can we plan on taking taking a a look at the numbers and tweaking the program if required around March or April of 26 just before we go knee deep into the 26 27 budget sure so is that a good April of 20 March or April of 26 to adjust the 27 budget accordingly or not go ahead no is going to be the answer here Jessica venturus fuchia County's coach division uh look at your Peak Seasons if you want to do a a gut check before you get into the season I'd recommend we do it probably in January of 26 that way you get a full season on your belt and you have enough time to implement and message before you hit your February March spring breaks so if you got it so we don't miss if you were to change it then we would have to message it out January gets you a peak season an off peak season it should got it either confirm or or allow so for planning if Council will are you saying for the sunset potential tweaking yeah we look at it at that point yes that that that's the scheduled time to look at it so you don't have to use your words carefully so it is a scheduled event tied to the budget not an ad hoc elected official trying to get rid of Beach parking issue I understand we're trying to get away right into the ordinance that comes back to you that these fees would revert February 1 of 2026 something like that unless we reauthorize it right yeah just a quick question for you who's writing the tickets uh there are the you mean like is there a meter made going out and putting stuff on people's windshield no if somebody parks and doesn't pay who rates the ticket well it'll be automated actually I'll let Chris handle that one probably got a little more so there's uh so again this is specific to offbeat there's two different elements for for the improved surface Lots where they have the fixed LPR cameras uh the software will automatically detect when they vehicle's in violation and then there's a human in the-middle process through their call center that will verify the correct vehicle that was registered against the vehicle that was in violation and then they would issue the tickets remotely uh on the mobile side so any of the lots that are uh not improved uh there's some areas down in the lower part there that we observed down there near New Smyrna where uh a grass or sand area for off street parking those would be covered through mobile enforcement and they would be able to issue a citation at the time of violation and then follow up through the the process that's deemed by Council so no law enforcement involved so if you remember if one of the slides was working with the uh Sheriff's Office with anou so after the change where um you know the county itself could no longer have law enforcement Authority so there's a statute that allows for um essentially civilian enforcement of parking infractions but it says it's the sheriff's authorization who does that not the county unlike in a municipality the municipality itself can hire you know parking enforcement Specialists um under the county sheriff scenario only the sheriff can do that so that's hence the statement about theou in progress um with the with the sheriff to kind of uh delegate that uh you know parking enforcement specialist civilian authority to whoever our vendor is these are not Law Enforcement Officers they don't carry a gun they can't arrest people they can't stop people essentially they they site you for parking chairman but they can boot him really quickly may ask why Paulo's up there have we had a conversation with the sheriff's office about this and what have they said uh the sheriff is not interested in in doing parking enforcement they're uh yes we have we have defitely we have talked with them yes okay we have two other people these questions or are we entering debate mode I just have a couple quick questions okay Danny Robbins for questions um if we can go back to the pat there we go so estimated passes for residents is 31,5 N5 how many residents on both how many residents do we have countywide um actually uh Mr Robbins if you look at the annual combo pass for resident okay and you add that add those two together that's cuz some people buy the combo pass which includes the beach pass and the in the inlet Parks so that's approximately 59,000 60,000 total resident passes that we sold on average and and how many people do we have approximately in val 500,000 plus okay we have we have approximately 280 households so 280,000 households so um that's just families and that's that's per the last desal census and I like I'm sure what does that what does that mean to me my household has four passes so I don't I can't make that jump numbers yeah it's numbers is all it is I just want to and and I'm going to uh support this the best I can I just want to make sure just because of of the Gap uh there that we're not in in where the sun setting comes in and where we're able to go ahead and re-evaluate this I just don't want to put those additional um fees and burdens back on the uh taxpayers or just make a bad situation worse so uh thanks David Santiago all right Mr chairman I'm gonna attempt to bring this in for a landing I'm gonna start with I move to authorize staff to proceed proceed with the solicitation of bids for the technology uh and process enhancements as outlined to incorporate 12month timeline in the bid for installation of Technologies as put out described in the presentation to assess the credit card fee to the purchaser on top of the uh on top of the taxes for both Beach tolls and yes sir and uh parking fees yes sir um to includeed with that in Polo you can stop me I don't know if he you need this in this motion but to update the fees for beach access for non-residents for to be $30 just say you can say as as shown on the screen if that's what you want to do or we could change it might be whatever you want no and then if somebody wants to amend something they can $30 for non-residents and yeah it's correct daily rate yes the daily rate annual pass raising it to 150 to implement within that proposal that comes back to us a reauthorization of the program of waving of the resident fee to expire January 31st of 2026 unless reauthorized to include fines I'm going to throw a number out there colleagu because we didn't talk about it but we certainly can get it debated uh a fine of $100 for anyone who viol Ates it and I know you need guidance for how much of that fine does the vendor keep I think um the way Ben presented it to us the if we can up that number based more than the than the actual that can offset the costs on the other side so I'm going to go out on limit and say 35% uh keep for the vendor on the fines the reason for throwing out that number out there is so that the vendor can consider that in their proposal when they submit it to us on what the potential revenues are I think I got it all I'm not sure you got to establish the parking fees as well there we go for the for the for the for the off Beach for the residents is that at no extra charge to that correct residents no charge for uh premium Beach parking and offsite parking no charge for residents that register that register and then the daily pass for non residents $30 uh for off Beach off and the beach would be which one off Beach no $30 for getting on the beach 20 correct 20 off Beach $30 on premium sales tax yes plus sales tax he got the sales tax got they're gonna have to listen to this tape later but I think they got it quick quick question for you before you're done with your motion chairman if that's allowed it yes it's allowed I'm just thinking this is one heck of a he he we they staff needed a ton of Direction with this and I I I applaud Mr Santiago for breaking it down the way that he has the sun setting I just want to make sure my mind's right we're talking about for the beach driving the premium on the beach not not the not the off Beach parking I want to make sure that we're all in in agreement with that because I don't want our residents if if this Council or a future Council decides to make a change with that they need to really have a big public hearing here because people in valuch County why don't pay now will would lose their would lose their mind rightfully so only for premium on beach parking thank you thank you the reauthorization and apologize there was also the off if someone wants to purchase an off Beach annual pass nonresident 100 I have it shown as 100 it's up to council's discretion I I think 100's fair that goes with what currently on the beach it's 20 a day for non-resident and 100 so we go we're changing that from 30 to 150 keeping that ratio and it keeps the same ratio and I think it's fair also okay at 100 anything else anything else you need can I if I would I'd just like to make a comment on the citation fees yeah um one thing I I would recommend um council's discretion obviously um so we said it at $20 someone doesn't pay they get a citation in the mail um you could start at 50 and if they don't pay within 30 days you could go to 100 and um the portion of that that the vendor keeps and typically uh industry standards are a little higher than 35% 5050 I think so actually I'd like to have Chris talk real quick about the uh the citations and and how much the vendor keep yeah so typically on the citation side um the vendor would be in closer to the 65 or 75% on that side of it for the efforts to collect those uh those citations so industry standards they would be a bit higher on on the vendor side so they would collect that too I wasn't sure of that if the collection goes to them so basically they would collect the money um the the the if they parked and paid they would have paid 20 bucks they get a citation that's a 100 bucks so we're going to get our 20 back and then we get our 20 back and then the de the Delta the the uh the vendor would keep 65% of that understand and that's the industry standard I think it's a high number but it it is and and I can tell you um it is a high number and it but it incentivizes them on enforcement and it drives down this cost you see under estimated collection expense because they know that they that's something they control and they get more Revenue that way it's going to drive down the cost of the overall system question go ahead thank you you mentioned instead of the 100 to 50 and then it could go up from there is that because I mean I'm sure is there some science behind that that people will pay that quicker they they they see okay in the mail if I don't pay it by 30 days it's going to go from 50 to 100 is is that the reasoning behind that and there's more success you got to sell me on you guys keeping 65% of this they they're not keeping he's the vendor to be clear they I got you I got you and I I'm looking at you like you're that guy well I'm here providing the the industry expectations absolutely so typically there's you've got you got two choices is the way it's normally done you can have a a maximum fee that is reduced if someone pays it earlier so that would be the reverse instead of 50 to to be a $100 just random numbers $100 if you pay it within X number of days it's $50 so that also will certainly generate a significant number of people or you can do it what do you see which one which one which one gets the gets the money paid quicker maximum amount with the discount if you pay within next days the same numbers that he mentioned basically just flipping it yeah how many days did you say how many days this comes down to the line between customer service and revenue generation I would recommend that because these are going to be sent in the mail I would say the the the industry average minimum is the discount kicks in within 14 days so if you pay within 14 you get the lower rate or 21 or 36 or seven uh I mean there there are municipalities that do as little as 7 to 10 days you have to pay within seven days and if you add in that the amount of time it takes to get the citation in the mail that's three to four days it's entirely at at council's discretion okay so something like this would would be within kind of Standards $50 if paid within 14 days $100 in 30 days or $100 in you get a discount to 50 if you pay in 14 days yes I would I would say it's fair to say that that's that's that's an industry standard there are there are numbers that are much higher it also typically has to do with what if there are any state regulations and things like that but basically you want it to be enough where it's an incentive for people to pay right because that's the goal is for everybody to pay before they leave uh and have a great time while they're here and and Ben one question if it if we change it to 65% as kind of sort of the standard is is that 65% after we get paid hours yes that's after we get our 20 they keep 65 okay okay yeah we want to make sure at a minimum we're getting yeah made whole with what they should okay so Mr chairman I just want to change that portion of my motion on the fines the fine will reflect as follows a discounted rate of the fine of $50 if paid within 14 days 30 days or after $100 and the vendor will keep 65% after the collection our portion of the fee of the parking that is my motion after ours have been paid yes I'll gladly second that so you said $100 30 days or longer it's actually 15 days or longer yeah right you're absolutely right Fe the fees $100 discount rate is 14 days unless they pay within 14 days I appreciate that and I'll still second that I only got a B in math so and you second that whole motion so the motion was by Sano the second by our our CFO thinks that uh maybe we make it 65% of the $50 rather than a percentage plus why I have a concern that with the vendor being in control and talking about the mail time and the delay time to get it processed out that 65% of $50 is less than 65% of $100 why does the amount that they keep depend on the amount of time it takes to pay if it's out in the ma there's a there's a potential of a perversion there the vendor has an incentive to make it take longer to get to the person so they can get 65% of a $100 that is a good point and I was wondering if I want to make sure that the system not that the vendor would but I want to make sure the system can't gamed can't we do it via the postmark if it takes the vendor 3 weeks to get the uh but they get pay online oh postmark when we send it yeah they don't they don't know that they they don't know they got caught till they get the letter right Ryan did you have a resolution yeah I was just gonna ask that thank you chair what do you want what do you think will be better either way if you base it off of the postmark date then is there's nothing to be gamed there or if the fee were percentage of the flat fee the of a certain number regardless of when the resident paid only as it pertains to the fine you're talking about yeah we would require that they I mean it's 65% of what they collect so if it's 50 or 100 there's a to it totals out to a certain number so they keep 65% of what they collect I think it'd be easier to just base it off the postmark date yeah the postmark date of what instead because I think they were mentioning that the fine would be based off of how long it's been since the violation instead the discount period be based off of since when they send the bill when they send the citation yes okay all right thank you thank you for that so I'll amend my motion to incorporate what he Ryan just says as it pertains to the fines 65% after the of the postmark date and I the secondary is fine with that okay any debate on all that Don Mr Dempsey your microphone I'm sorry I'll speak up this only applies to the beach in the inlet Parks correct it actually only applies to the beach the inlet parks are separate right but like okay the combo pass I thought was going to be be free the combo pass because the the inlet parks are paid for through the port District we are not proposing any changes to the fees on those um so if someone wants to enter the inlet parks would they would still they could still get the annual pass at $20 or if they wanted to pay the day pass at $10 so let me we're still charging uh Vala residents to use the Little League fields correct I believe they have to rent out I'm I'm not sure on that to be honest with you that's I'm just I'm looking at the County website and we're charging fucha County residents $30 an hour to use the Little League fields right I think with the lights yes it's $20 an hour without the lights that right that's what it says here so I just I want to know if we're amendable I mean I've been pushing for ball fields um for quite a while I mean until we get more ball fields are we also amenable to waving the costs of using Little League fields in Bia County to County residents you're saying for parking no just to use the fields per hour 20 bucks per hour to take your kid out and let him practice the leag so I'm just wondering if as long as we're in this mode of trying to let the County residents use their well remember we're in a mode of adding a revenue into this so I would want to know what the revenue we're adding to the park budget well we could charge more cuz you charge 30 an hour for County residents and 35 an hour for non-count residents to use lighted ball fields why can't we just raise the non-count residents to 50 and let the County residents use the ballfields for free in that same vein you know to go and use in De Barry lakeem Monroe Park to put your boat in you got to pay two bucks I mean camping fee is $25 a night for a tent $40 a night for an RV I just you know good point not this agenda item but I understand that I understand that and I I if if the if the mindset here is for free beach access and free beach parking for County res which is fine that's fine I just want to make sure the west side is also going to get the same kind of love that's all I'm I'll support you Troy because I think that's the way we're headed but seeing little going to go go to the beach too but I would say if this is important to you Cho says it's important to everybody so let's bring it back as a separate item and look could we ask staff to look into that to some of these other yeah okay yeah that's fine I just want to make sure that we're kind of mindful of that that there's other areas that if we're going to offer free things for free uses for residents let's spread it out it's not free though it's just no additional charge oh taxpayers the taxpayers get it back okay I was just going to say let's bring it back I'm open to the idea let's come up with proposal or ideas wait really quickly our fields at our parks are free to use for individuals it's when you're a league and you're scheduling practices that you have to go out there and pay those fees but anybody can go use any field at any time if it's not being used and reserved so it is free essentially yeah but my understanding is they're not they're backed up they're on back there there's shortage my son had to play in a storm retention can we get back on he brought it up I'm just responding to his I'm asking the chairman if we can get back on task please yeah I I think we were heading that way and he wanted to clarify that thank you for the clarification so looking back at this uh at the motion everybody's name just cleared so we've got a a motion um for a whole list of things that you you seem to be happy with you can deal with that we're happy because we got Direction assuming this uh Council goes for it and we can move forward with the solicitation Okay then if there's no other um debate [Music] um I thought you just hit your okay um I don't think we need well I hope we don't need to call the role um all in favor say I I any opposed you have Direction go to work thank you well done and that passes us six to zero Carissa item 11 is a district one and District three and District five appointments to the children and family Advisory Board I don't think we have enough applicants do we you have one applicant for each of the districts do you do you have Miss Jana register for District 1 Tanya Webb for District 3 and Lissa Ivanova for District Five this board is having an issue um meeting Quorum so we do encourage someone to appoint do we have a district one nomination Jana register is the district one applicant okay do we have a district three nomination yes sir uh Tanya web Tanya web and is there a district five Lissa Ivanova Don do you know Janna register okay so we have Jana register in District One Tanya web District 3 and Lissa in District 5 do you need a second for all of those or no yes please happy to Second all of those okay you're Troy seconds each nomination any questions or debate all in favor of those nominees say I I any opposed that also passes 6 to0 next you have an uh appointment to the educational facilities Authority the 5-year term of Mr Michael Walsh expired March 1st of 2024 he did not wish to be reappointed you do have two applicants rayon stro and Vince Ryan and anybody can make that nomination correct you need one person right Mr chair I'd like to go ahead go ahead no here you go I'd like to nominate Vince Ryan that's I was G pick second take Johansson nominates Vince Ryan and the second was by David Santiago any questions all in favor say I I and that nominee is pass 6 to zero do we have any uh public participation I don't see him here John he's where can we call him make sure he's okay oh it's not John Nicholson no need to check make okay um Mr is it Josh tremens Joel Joel come on up like I was saying this morning the person who's over Mr Hutchinson the main person I don't remember his name but he told me that they didn't even take I submitted um people that had the same things wrong with my property to their property being Vehicles fences that are too high that are not on right all this good stuff they did not investigate any of them his words to me were this I did this two years ago and his words to me well do you want me to take in look at the a few of those now I says what do you want drugs it's been two years you didn't have no problem investigating me within seven days but they couldn't do them they're discriminating against me if I have to follow the rules everybody in here has to follow the rules you can't have a grill in your yard by code enforcement it has to be in your garage okay okay you can't have chairs in your backyard chairs have to be in the garage unless you're sitting in them this is what the code enforcement who the hell come up with the rules like this do you people had no chairs in your yard I'll bet you do and I waited here all day long to get my second 3 minutes I still got 58 seconds 9 hours to address you and nobody on this court here or or your board is going to do anything about it but I got to tell you something it's not that hard to look up where every one of you live and see if you got wrong with your house and I can turn you in too chairman just a point of order on the language we have women and children listening online in these Chambers wildly I'm sorry excuse me thank you I'm I'm see that's all you get out of this okay uh George we have all this coming up um as part of one of our workshops right we're looking at we're looking at codes and um permit requirements and but anyway you don't have to answer that um County Manager closing comments y thank you um just a couple things I wanted to uh bring up uh I hope all of you uh received uh your email and uh I know some of you get stuff different ways but we uh upgraded our our weekly and briefing we Consolidated and upgraded so you should have received a uh weekly briefing from my desk it looks a little bit like this uh so I'm really pleased with uh Michael Ryan and his team they've uh upgraded that substantially so it's a nice uh thing to look at what's going on during the week uh secondly I want to point out uh uh some Outreach events that we have going with Emergency Management uh group out there Clint meum uh and Company they are out in town hall Outreach events at the D land Library April 24th from 5 to 6:30 the Daytona Regional Library May 1st 5 to 6:45 Orman Beach May 9th 5 to 6:45 Deltona uh library May 22nd 5 to 6:45 New Smyrna Beach library May 29th 5 5 to 6:45 in the Port Orange Library June 12th 5 to 6:30 and of course we have our upcoming hurricane expo at the fairgrounds where people can go and see vendors that uh have hurricane uh related supplies for uh citizens uh lastly I want to throw a little shout out uh the uh folks are Partners there in the town of ponet Pon Inlet and the group uh February 29th we met our deadline to have all of our easements I believe there was 50 of them um it was kind of a Herculean task but uh that allows us now to be eligible to use the 700,000 cubic yards of beach sand that's being dredged from the inlet so that will help us out uh immensely and uh this will help uh this particular sand will now be slated to go north of the inlet uh constructions anticipated in this coming uh fall winter 2024 but again I need to uh really mayor of britzky uh uh their elected officials skip white bill Milano and then Mike disher the manager and his town staff all went out and really beat the door down beat the doors down uh and then in our shop Shannon menu Keith Kel uh and the gang up and RightWay Ivon uh jeene Lewis uh they all also worked very diff uh very long and difficult project to get that done I didn't think they quite honestly with with a lot of counties around are struggling uh to get this type of work done with the core and uh yeah and they're not able to uh meet those uh requirements and of course uh the leader of the whole project uh is our Jessica Fentress who knocks it out of the park every time so I appreciate that and that's all I have Mr County attorney nothing okay uh Danny Robbins thanks shair uh real quick guys uh I'd just like to make sure we get um what I had talked about or what we had talked about earlier about the uh standards mirroring uh the affordable housing um but for everybody on that April 30th discussion do I need to put that chair in a motion or have we kind of mutually agreed that we're going to address it at the April 30th meeting does anybody have an issue Don it was for the uh just to discuss having the same uh standards apply to everyone else as uh you know whatever the build buing standards are and and permitting um uh come back for discussion in the workshop April 30th Workshop guy I think at what time I are we good with that yeah okay um did we have any up update I know we got set back with a couple things uh we had some ordinances uh that were coming back uh there was a gun ordinance that's outstanding we had um the sex offender stuff coming back and then uh some parking and then conx boxes did we have an idea yes sir the gun is uh coming back next meeting the sex offender may come back next meeting but it may be the first meeting in April just because of the schedule um and then what was the other meeting I think the the uh truck parking uh and Truck Parking I don't remember the truck parking I might have missed it we we'll follow up with that and get back to you on that one sir and I think the conx boxes as well was out there sorry the conx boxes are on your follow-up list they're going to the planning and Land Development Review Committee this month and back to Council in April excellent thank you um where else uh accolades um George staff thanks for the uh I saw the uh first print out of the weekly updates that you guys are doing I think those are are good I'm going to uh get ready to put those out and then two um the rock stars and Ben's uh department and then rhod and Bridge uh addressing some of the storm water issues in that tamoka Farms Road Corridor and all the way down uh in District 3 the uh kind of the Armament is that Granite that you that y'all are using for the CTS I see a lot of whatever it is the the rock that you're stabilizing the the banks with that's that's good stuff uh tons of compliments from uh constituents and then to customer service uh applaud for the customer service guys uh We've we've had some emails come in and and everybody's jumped right on it so thank you for that uh other than that that's that's it thank you guys David Santiago great compliments for Public Works actually Ben's birthday in case anybody didn't know birthday yeah thanks um I got a few items normally I'm pretty quiet at this time um but in in follow up to like some of Danny's inquiries uh on some some pending stuff um I I don't know how long ago it was but I want to uh get support from the council to set time certain to bring a certain item back up um we had talked about the medical lean ordinance several months ago um I want to uh unless there's any objection Mr chair to bring that back or staff can't bring it back I want it for us on April 2nd meeting so that we can make a decision on that it was a medical lean ordinance I don't know if you remember that we had given some direction on that there was going to be two options for us um and um chairman do you want a second or you we okay is Staff okay here in councilman Santiago shaking her head yes discussing it is that is it possible for staff to bring that back April 2nd Yes actually we're waiting feedback from Halifax but we can proceed without it yeah they can come and speak in person if they need to I want it on April 2nd unless Council objects good okay thank you um what else I got thank you Mr chair on that um there was one thing and maybe that that was concerning to me not one thing but just one thing that I made a note of um from the public testimony today the gentleman uh that mentioned I know he lefted but um he was a little grumpy but I get it on that he wanted to get a um a solar panel permit and that his solar panel permit is not being issued because he's got a pending uh fence permit or something like that um I don't know if we would want I don't know I feel a little uncomfortable with holding somebody up on a another permit based on a previous permits issue I I kind of if cave you can elaborate if that's true I don't know no sir what we're going to do is we'll give you a full evaluation what have happened with Mr tremens and his property so that that way all the concerns that he was identified are clarified to the m including that thank you all right that's all that I went to make sure it wasn't policy um and Clay you may well not want to leave there's I got another thing here for you um there was something else that came up today during testimony on the variance uh today when we did the uh the pool variance and Mark watt said something interesting me to me to us that I'd heard in the past I think his words were and I'm G to say I'll paraphrase just to be safe but he said the staff is sometimes hung or oftentimes hamstrung on variance requests because of the five criterias yes sir and and I wanted to see what the council thinks if we can explore options because I think there's five criteria in there and the way our ordinance is written almost every single one I think comes to us as a denial I wonder if there's opportunities for us to loosen that belt a little bit and say maybe four of five I I I just wanted to see just in in the method because we deal with these variances all the time and we usually kind of just say yeah it makes sense but I I don't know if there's appetite to say if the applicant meets four of five then it can come with a staff recommendation for approval or something like that I don't know is that controlled strictly by Council law or no state law we actually brought this forward about two years ago to the council to ask if you would want to have that it has to meet all five or just a majority of it or if there specific ones you wanted to have to meet we can dust that off and bring it back yeah okay yeah I think this is a more uh I don't want to talk about other councils I think this Council would be supportive of uh of a change in that area we'll research that if you don't mind um with a lot of the stuff that's pending is it okay if we come back and say May or June yeah that's fine with me I just of what year this year thank you clay um and Mr chairman I am done thanks everybody okay Don Dempsey yeah I was just curious do we know where we are with this Hunden study on the ballparks and everything so uh Mr BAU is out of town today so I don't have him readily available to give me an update on that it is in the works I think we're with within 60 days of receiving that part of the study but I don't have the date memorized I can make sure I get that information to council okay all right that's all thank you I'm done Jake Johansson thank you sir um we had a discussion a couple months ago about uh possibly combining the uh Hospital authorities U we have three of them uh I've had a few noral conversations with uh with our County attorney and I think since we have all this Spare Time on our hands can we add that to the list of things to put on the uh Council agenda tracking to to get on future it would uh in essence be uh part of your legislative platform to seek changes to the special acts that created them and then a referendum is required but that's something certainly you as a policy position perfect yeah I want I want to get on that so we can get it on a referendum during a uh during an election so we can push through that and and get some more government out of the way thank you Troy Kent thank you chairman George another meeting no consent agenda item pulled your staff is is writing more concise uh a better job of information is being provided non-confrontational items are not on the consent agenda and I give you and our chairman also sets the agenda so I give both of you credit for that streamline e excellent work Ben Bartlett you worked your tail off on that issue ma mad props to you and just be and just because he's he's sort of looking at me but not really clay you you can shake your head all you want I saw you doing it here you know in Norman they told you you were the best in the business you've heard it up here from this dayas but when you have a land use attorney who's excellent by the way singing your Praises I'm like goodness gracious Clay is getting love all around so enough enough of those accolades I just want to say since this Council has made changes at the Ocean Center I want to brag for just a quick moment about a couple of things there this Council decided to make positive changes so that there would be events for our residents to attend and with the hiring of Lynn Flanders our director at the Ocean Center with your leadership and with what you you know the skill set you bring to the table from your time up in uh the Atlanta area we've had Cat Williams this past weekend we had Motocross we have it again this Friday and Saturday I think it's the 7th and 8th Motocross again there will be bull riding on March 16th and just announced today at noon hugely popular extremely successful sellout many crowds comedian Bert ker has signed to be at the Ocean Center on Father's Day Sunday June 16th another feather in the cap George of you and your team and Miss Flanders of course you and your team super exciting news and it's giving our residents and visitors something to do in our community and of course I'm excited about that ripple effect where people will go out to dinner and some will get hotel rooms etc etc etc it's a beautiful Center and we need to Showcase it and use it as much as we possibly can last but not least a huge thank you to this Council for agreeing to come back with defined areas for our parking fees off Beach and on our beach at a premium for our residents and visitors alike thank you very much and um have a great evening aren't you glad I came up with that idea on the free parking buddy I'm telling you what if it wasn't for your idea councilman Santiago I I just don't know what what I would do but yes thank you okay I'm gonna pass today um at 4:27 the meeting is adjourned e