##VIDEO ID:sOccdk6YdOY## [Music] oh [Music] [Music] hey [Music] he [Music] he [Music] oh [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes [Music] hey [Music] he [Music] [Applause] [Music] a [Music] [Music] a [Music] w [Music] w [Music] w [Music] w [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 minutes [Music] a [Music] [Music] SP [Music] he [Music] [Music] check check check [Music] [Music] sorry [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 minutes [Music] you [Music] oh [Music] you heard okay if everybody would find a we'll get started in just 1 minute okay it's 402 so we'll get started with the the rest of the council is here they're um they'll be right in we will call the meeting to order for the September 17th 2024 valuchi County council meeting at 40 two just to give you an idea of how we start and we always start this way is in just a minute uh we will have an invocation and I will ask everybody who would like to stand for that to stand and then just remain standing for the Pledge of Allegiance if you are a part of a faith group who would like to participate in the invocation uh just send an email to k the letter K green volusia.org and this is Carissa green um to your right and she will get you all set up you are welcome to take part in that um this morning it is my pleasure to introduce to you uh Pastor Tommy Clayton with Grace Life Church in Delona and um uh Tommy come on down and if everybody would like to stand let's pray together almighty God thank you for this day thank you for the opportunity for these men and these women to hear perspectives from the community to make decisions uh we know that they have deep and far-reaching ramifications and implications so we pray today Lord that that wisdom would Prevail here that there would be humility there would be honesty uh they would stay United and would be just pray that you would bless them bless their families thank you uh that we have a form of government for where we can elect officials uh to represent us and to hear and make decisions on behalf of our County and the men and the women the citizens the families uh that raise concerns and bring them here we thank you for that I pray that that order would be maintained today it would be a peaceful discussion and agreeable solutions would be reached today and uh I just thank you Lord for for your goodness for your wisdom for your sovereignty for your love for your grace and pray for a great meeting together we pray all these things in Christ's name amen amen somebody a phone to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you KN that's public now I tell conversation is now public thank you Tom okay Carissa would you call the role Please Mr Santiago Mr Dempsey here Mr Johansson Mr Kent here Mr Reinhardt here Mr Robbins Mr Brower here and when Mr Santiago comes in we will at that time let the record reflect that uh we will start the meeting as we always do with public participation we thank you when you come in to talk to us it's much appreciated um you are our employers so it's always good to hear from you and and hear what's on your mind um we will start with uh uh Patricia fanom and when you come as she's walking down when I call your name please come up make sure the microphone is close to you the podium goes up and down the mics move and we want to hear what you say we want it to be recorded you will have three minutes to talk about uh anything that you would like to talk about that affects our County and um there is a timer that will be on the monitor in front of you do is it lit up Patricia it says 257 and it's also well put her give her her time back and it's also will be on the big screen behind me go ahead ma'am thank you okay great good afternoon my name is Patricia fanom and I live a quarter of a mile from 874 Hall Road this afternoon I submit for public record another letter of opposition towards the badier fuel terminal this will be added to the over 4,000 letters and signatures previously submitted in July a council member posted details on Facebook regarding a family project he wrote it also teaches our kids that being broke is a choice being broke is not a choice for over 30 years I worked as a teacher and school administrator in New York I worked in Brooklyn Manhattan and the Bronx most of the families I worked with were poor they were born into poverty unfortunately it is very difficult to get out of the cycle of poverty being broke was not their choice many go broke when communities are subject to drastic changes building a fuel terminal on Wetlands will surely cause flooding just like the overbuilding of condos that have caused flooding flooding sorry that has course flooding flooding is destroying people's homes and businesses many will be forced to go broke building a fuel terminal will cause noise and air pollution from the constant flow of trucks homeowners will be drastically affected by this in order to protect our health we will need to move we will most likely not be able to sell our homes at a profit or many may need to abandon them we will be forced to go broke all of you have the power to help our communities Prosper I ask you again stand up and fight stop the fuel terminal from being built stop all these condos from being built stop the flooding protect the wetlands animals trees and most importantly protect the people of alucha County thank you very much for your time Paul Richardson and I don't know if I said this but when you come up for safety reasons this Council has been very generous that we don't require you to uh tell us your uh address to the public we have it here on paper but if you would just tell us what part of the county you're from so that your representative your specific representative knows um where you are Paul afternoon Council my name is Paul of Delan um I want to talk off the cuff here I uh have been uh appointed to the cultural Council one year one month ago on August 15th 2023 and since then I this is the last uh cultural council meeting we have I was sitting at Don's chair you pointed me thank you by the way and so this here is a picture of the and you have the uh poster for uh the festival the Arts coming here to Land pretty soon and uh this here is the uh there was a g a echo gallery opening and this here is me with uh Matt U Council man reart was very nice a lot was a gallery of young uh people uh displaying their new pictures uh photography is uh is not as recognized art as it used to be and hopefully our house with the uh o Center is changing that so there you go there's a picture of me Robert and uh uh my Her Name Escapes me for this moment but uh she was the uh head of the Art House a very nice very nice lady and um again I've been uh going to these events which is very nice and uh for for almost a year now and uh this here is the opening at the uh uh Museum AR D land very nice and so uh with Patty he was very very nice person I've got gotten know her quite well uh over the course of my time as the coun counsil but again uh this this uh my original intent when coming to the uh County council meeting was to expand our cultural uh Heritage uh the fourth July 2026 coming up and uh while uh I still continue to speak for that uh I'm doing this cultural Council thing and it's been amazing an eye openening and very enlightening and so I hope uh I have to be on the cultural Council for many many years to come and thank you very much and especially Don thank you for appointing me uh thank God bless Mr County God Bless America and her Eternal Ally Israel thank you for your service uh John keer I'm not really on the agenda I didn't I didn't think I was going to get up for till later um I've been trying to get an appearance to petition for my grievances I uh I'm from District 3 I've endured 30 years of malicious prosecutions and false arrest and uh I'm trying to get an acknowledgement from the County Council on that and uh I say I I've spoke before on the my last time in jail where I was tortured and named and that's just one of many occasions and I've been maliciously prosecuted no less than five times in 30 years I've been falsely arrested six times and falsely imprisoned six times and I'm trying to get an up or down vote according to uh Beyond a reasonable J if I W I'd welcome your challenge if you don't believe it's happened to me and I simply want uh yes we acknowledge that it happened I I'd like to get on agenda I'm also an expert in democracy and uh I would love to give an hour presentation sometime and get put on the the docket and especially 50 days from the next election maybe you know maybe next month dock it and uh you know I've got an open challenge to I'm an independent registered voter I I would love to hear from the Republicans and the Democrats on what democracy is I think it's important to our country our County our state our nation and uh I think it's a a debate that we need to have publicly and U as I said one party is talking about the death of democracy and defending democracy and and uh if we saw the the DNC uh their convention and I I believe it word was used hund times and uh I challenge everything that everyone thinks they know about democracy and I I would love to participate in that debate the the other issue was my own issue and and and I would actually use some of that in teaching democracy because it is it's about equal opportunity and fair outcome the same thing that I say that America's founded on we we are a republic and uh which is also designed so that democracy can happen but it it is democratic it is not democracy I I've contacted two of you and tried to get on the I haven't heard back from you I've tried to get on the agenda I'd love to talk to you uh Mr Johansson and Mr Robins you're my district councilman you're at the sir thank you and uh I'd love to have a discussion thank you sir your time is up call me on the phone thank you uh Thomas rled Thomas rutage Wilbur by the Sea uh I want to thank the council and the staff for their service to our community I oftentimes forget to mention the staff and they're doing most of the work um I feel I need to shine a light on a subject to hopefully avoid what could be unnecessary notoriety to our community I've been aware by some Rumblings in a Facebook post by a republican executive committee member there is a move to have a rule eight vote by the valo County Republican executive committee to endorse a county race where both candidates are Republicans in good standing and possibly leave off one off the voote guide altogether it is my understanding a rule eight vote is never to be used to harm a republican a good stand the vote could go against the incumbent Brower who has won his last two elections and landslides are 15 points or more and is the presumptive winner in the general election history shows us he will likely significantly widen his Marg and it could be viewed as intended to change the outcome and go against the will of the people uh this would make Republican causes and their Mantra of integrity and fairness in elections where there's already heightened sensitivity we could just look bad um local Republicans could be viewed as Hypocrites and it could damage Republican causes going forward in addition I believe this committee had made a choice I'm not sure about this to previously in the Val county seat two RIS to leave a republican uh Steve Miller off the voter guide Steve is a republican in good standing who has dist who has a distinguished record of Public Service to our local community I don't know why this happened but in in my opinion having not been involved he should be on a local voting guide put out by local Republican executive committee and I am a lifelong Republican um these two Gathering my view uh could throw enough blood in the water for a national press story that could bring unwanted attention to our community where it all seems unnecessary um we have seen where these things can get ugly very quickly um I ask is a decorated Marine combat veteran and a former local mayor for anyone of influence anybody that can hear this microphone to reach out to this committee and encourage them to avoid endorsing either candidate um in either of these races and reconsider the choice to leave Mr Miller off the voter guide if that is in fact settled business um let the best candidate when in each of these two races all of these candidates are Republicans in good standing and separately I just want to encourage this body to act with kindness kindness respect and Civ in all of your Deb debates and political discourse wherever it may occur our country and our County needs this example set now more than ever thank you John Nicholson John Nicholson Nick county beach side um for the last 75 years I've never put a um sign in my yard never advertised who I was going to vote for uh it was a personal choice that's the way I was brought up you went into a booth and it was your choice and you kept it that way uh but it's not that way anymore it's um everybody's announcing who they're voting for 6 eight buts 10 months in advance um we don't know the uh the individuals that are running I'm lucky I've gone over 5,000 meetings and I see almost every single person running for office so I have a choice people ask me who I'm running for I'm Who I'm voting for um the two signs I put on I was at Beachside neighborhood watch chipwood had a sign and uh Ken had a sign I said sure I'll put them in if I had a sign for Jeff i' to put it there had one for Matt or for Chris I would put it there because no I wouldn't put Don sign no I'm not that bad so wow a Don not so bad for a westsider person um you all saw the article in the paper today on uh on death and uh again that's getting to be part for the course before you all were here the previous Council four of them got targeted and they were asked to resign all right Billy wheeler got asked to resign because she made a comment about a shooting we had in Daytona Beach um Sheriff was asked to resign because he had a lease on public property um Heather post was asked to resign Fred was asked to resign because of a a sermon he gave all right why all the people came in asking people to resign I have no idea three of you guys now have been targeted David's been targeted remember about the Fuel Depot uh Danny got targeted for a comment he said about uh what caused Main Street to decline now Jeff's got it so as far as I'm concerned he's got the free right to speak whatever he wants to speak it's a religious obligation that we have and it's the way he sees the world it's his right uh on number um two articles in your consent agenda I'm thankful for the $3.2 million we're getting for the land purchase I'm not quite sure about the closed caption the Tona beach has it it doesn't make sense the words don't match any English words that I've ever seen so if we're going to do this make sure that we're absolutely positive that they are accurate uh and lastly nope more to come you'll be here at the end uh Barbara sainsbury good afternoon and I thank the uh the Commissioners for giving us the form to be able to address things to you I was here two weeks ago and participated at in this uh public Arena and I'm here again for the same purpose and that is regarding the amendment four that will be uh voted on November 5th on our ballot so this is not only a concern to valua County but it's a concern to all counties of Florida because it's a very vague and deceptive Amendment and particularly women need to understand exactly what this amend is calling for the amendment is titled amendment to limit government interference with abortion and this would be placed on the Florida Constitution if they get 60% the reason for the concerns is because in that wording it's very brief very vague no law no law shall prohibit penalize delay or restrict abortion before viability or when necessary to protect the patient's Health as determined by the patient's health care provider this proposed amendment actually uh gives a right to before fetal viability which is generally argued at 22 to 24 weeks when necessary to protect the patient's Health as determined by the health care provider the problem with the language of this proposed amendment is that it doesn't Define anything if you look at other amendments when you place something on the Constitution it's obviously very important because it's going to be there for a long time and this one the language uh is vague deliberately and deceptive for the simple reason that it doesn't Define healthc care providers since 1979 medical doctors have been required to do abort and that would no longer be the case uh it eliminates parental consent for minors that means that would be the only surgery that a minor could actually do without parental knowledge or consent and the removal of abortion uh health and safety regulations would also be affected not including the life of The Unborn which would be taken up to birth now these are pretty extreme things that can occur and I think that the citizens in All Counties should be aware of this but I I reside in V County and and so I'm starting that here this is the second time I'm presenting it and hoping I can present the resolution I did thank you Barbara okay thank very much your time is up it goes by uh quickly Jean Bailey hello my name is Jean Bailey and I've been coming since April I think talking with you guys about the free Narcan vending machines I'd like to have in Valia County I have put up a couple of them I wanted to give you status on the one I just put up last month it's already had 22 boxes dispensed I'm getting letters of support I'm getting thank yous from the community people that live here people that need it people that know it's there it was a year ago this month that my son passed so I'm just uh waiting and I guess I've been pushed out to next month again but that's okay I'll just keep coming and keep reminding you I'm here letting you know that I'm still out there working on it I'm getting the machines up I have five machines I have two up I have one ready to go I'm not real sure where I'm going to put it yet but it's almost ready to go I have been working with Dr Brad and he's been coming up with suggestions and he's been trying to help me find some solutions that would be best for the community and for the county and so I just wanted to let you know I'm still here and I'm still working at it thank you thank you okay and that ends the uh public participation for this part of the meeting um if you would let pardon to let the record know that Mr Santiago joined the meeting at 4:25 p.m. yes so we have a a full house here okay um first item is to approve the agenda um is there a motion to approve the agenda as written yes chairman motion to approve the agenda as written second Jo Hansen okay we have a motion uh to approve by Vice chair Kent and the second by councilman Joe Hansen uh and a comment by councilman Robbins oh it'll it'll wait for the consent pardon me it'll wait for the consent okay okay um so all in favor of approving the agenda say I I any opposed agenda is approved 7 to Z so we will go right into the agenda and the next item then is the consent agenda does anyone have an item they would like to pull for either a comment or a vote uh councilman Robbins uh yes chair L please just for a comment Hey Brother L for comment by councilman Robbins uh chairman I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented by staff second Johansson okay Vice chair Kent makes a motion to approve the second is once again by councilman Johanson any other discussion then all in favor of the consent agenda please say I I any opposed good job George the vice chair says good job George and we have a uh request for a comment from Council Robbins on uh letter L [Music] thank you chair now this is a uh uh initiative um that was put forward uh to acquire some acreage down in southeast fuia i' just like to get Brad to highlight a little bit of uh of the program and what this project brings uh to us as a County uh and conservation Environmental Protection in the uh Indian River Lagoon basin the masked man yes sir uh Brad bball Community Services director so this was previously approved for purchase by this council at that time I had uh shared that the uh Florida forever program would reimburse us for the largest parcel at a little over 2,000 acres so um this is the agreement with Florida forever to reimburse us but you know this is a strategic acquisition in terms of water quality and quantity so uh number one um provides filters or the kidneys of of the water that's running off of edge water and flowing South into the Indian River Lagoon quantity or quality it also provides important flood plane protection in terms of water quantity so this connects with a larger 1800 acre piece that's owned by the Water Management District that really will serve as uh protection of that flood plane um in in the Edgewater area will you take a question yes sir councilman Santiago can you can you if you you're knowledgeable on it you're a smart guy so I hope you and can you elaborate a little bit more on that flood plane and how it helps and what what what do you mean how it could help that area can you give us more so if you look at all of our Acquisitions this year we're we're not only you know we take a strategic approach to Acquisitions and we're not just looking for you know recreational component we're looking for other environmental benefits so what this means is it's uh if we provide provide a basin and that's essentially what this is between 95 and um Silver Palm or Air Park Road a basin for the water to flow from east to west and then north to south um into the Lagoon um that's water that's not being um you know in our storm water system it's water that is not um you know um flooding people's homes and so these strategic Acquisitions or basins that we're acquiring have dual purposes you know would you say I don't want to put words you in your mouth but would you say actions like this are actions that the County Council and the county staff is taking to help alleviate potential for future flooding in certain areas yeah absolutely it's a smart growth strategy at the end of the day and we have other properties that are identified that we hope to acquire in the future to help along with these types of issues absolutely one of the bigger ones we're working on right now is a 2500 acre piece that is adjacent to Lake Harney that will provide significant Upstream benefits um because the St John's flows north so if we can capture it south of County where and when it flows north to where the population Center is U certainly will provide benefits to our residents so so On Target is another 20 I hate to repeat because I want to make sure it's clear that's why I do that sometimes uh on our targeted list is 2 200 additional acres to help in this water discharge areas also yes and we've appied for a resilient Florida Grant to help us fund the purchase of that property awesome I don't like to tell the media what to print but those seems like good stories of the things we're doing to help with flooding thank you yes sir uh you're not done yet oh councilman Reinhardt thank you chair on that list of properties The A List as we referred to how many other properties after this one are on that list for potential purchase that would help we I don't I'd have to look at the list for flood plane protection but we have 27 on the list 27 on the list total we have six purchase offers accepted and approved by this Council that includes this one six six additional offers were waiting for feedback from the owners and eight properties under appraisal okay just out of curiosity if we could could I get the information with respect to the the flood plane issue that you just brought up on those future properties care absolutely thank you councilman Robbins thank you chair you know Brad often you know we get vilified you know we or uh told we're not doing enough and I just wanted to highlight the the great work that you and your team are doing uh for this initiative and that we are listening and this is all Hands-On deck approach uh countywide because uh I know I notice it I can only imagine my colleagues notice it well and I just wanted to say thank you for this and that that we appreciate your hard work again I will say it's the team it's team effort but I think there's a balance of green infrastructure that's is what these Acquisitions are and gray infrastructure which is that you know storm water uh infrastructure so balancing those is a benefit to our residents and taxpayers thank you Troy Kent thank you chairman um Dr bbal did you say 2 200 Acres yes sir and when when is the timeline for that to happen so um it will be so the kind of the we're looking for a partner to acquire it because it's 25 or 5,000 Acres I'm sorry that are you talking about the Lake Harney piece I mentioned 5,000 Acres um it's a very large piece so we're looking for a partner um it's going through the Florida forever process it will be on their list next march um where they would be a partner it's a long two-year process to get on their list so we're moving that on a simultaneous track the team has applied for a resilient Florida Grant to be a funding partner as well so typically on these projects we have multiple Pathways that we're working in order to to bring um the property into public ownership and that initial investment okay um George who made the final decision to hire this guy serious really I I want to know who was it George take yourself out to lunch I was going to ask you to take whoever I'm I'm going to tell you why you're a hard worker you're bright you come prepared you hear from the audience You said Dr Brad I'm assuming she means you Dr Brad bbal you're helping uh with um the uh naram dispensers you're compassionate you're everything that we like to have in directors and people that are are helping to make the decisions publicly thank you thank you just to close on that yes sir how's your back feel from all the pats you you deserve it thank you I appreciate that my mom used to say you know don't break your wrist Pat and yourself on the back so it's nice what others do it I I just wanted to add that this is why it's so important um to me and I think this Council this valua forever was voted on by taxpayers um who voted to raise their own taxes by 72% at budget season it's always because we we want to reduce the millage rate at budget season it's always a temptation to either zero volucia forever out or to reduce it and you have come up here and argued against that to keep the funding we don't we sometimes have more money than it looks like we have projects for and then we get a huge project like this and that's going to continue to happen I I hope and so I appreciate your efforts to uh uh protect the funding and to for all the work that you're doing to bring in really good projects to vucha County this is this is uh good news thank you sir thank you very much and I I don't see anybody else that wants to Pat you on the back thank you okay and as Ryan o owski approaches uh item three a resolution authorizing the issuance of not to exceed $10 million and I'm going to let you fill all that [Music] in good evening Council rosowski Chief Financial Officer uh before you clicker is not clicking can you go to the next slide and the next one [Laughter] before you is a financing arrangement for the project that's summarized here this was has been in development for a while uh the first part of developing the system of new cells for the landfill is to develop the storm water system for that set of cells the uh storm water system is for the 271 Acres that's that uh that it's going to cover it's going to enable over a 100 Years of landfill capacity the count previously approved this project uh in multiple dates as listed it's funded $15 million from the uh coronavirus relief sorry coronavirus local fiscal Recovery Fund from arpa this is the remaining piece of the funding $10 million debt issuance uh what's before you is the resolutions to enable that to occur there's still a lot of steps that would actually happen after this uh behind me I have Jay Glover who is from pfm advisers he is our financial adviser that works on structuring debt deals and recommending uh how we should do them I'm also joined by uh T Tanner Atkinson from Bryant Miller Olive who is Bond counsel and also disclosure counsel they have been working with me uh for the last two months and we'll continue to work for another month to actually make all this occur what was proposed in the resolutions and then the attached um official statement the preliminary official statement is for publicly issued Bond uh the debt that we've issued for nearly or over a decade at this point previously has been privately placed so instead of going to the public market we've been issuing uh privately placed deals with banks this is actually going to be a public Bond issuance our first in many years it would be secured by a covenant to budget and appropriate annually from Legally available non Ador revenues uh by securing it in that manner it helps lower interest cost by being able to take advantage of our like General credit rating as opposed to just the credit rating of the solid waste system although as bulleted management intends and has planned for solid waste fund to make all of those payments the security would be a little bit larger than that and that's what helps lower our interest rates the underwriter in this method would be selected by a competitive sale so whichever underwriter ends up proposing the lowest true interest cost would be uh selected the bonds will be rated by S&P Global ratings we are actually in the middle of doing that we had our rating call on Friday and we expect our bond rating to be issued Wednesday or not or Thursday um like I mentioned the the contracted professionals are behind me if you have any questions for them otherwise I'm here for questions as well thank you questions first councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman do you have an expectation what do you think that rating May Comm in it I do not what are you hoping for double A something okay I'll wait there Mr chair okay uh councilman Reinhardt thank it's your what has our bond rating been traditionally over the last the rating we've in the past we had a rating from Fitch which was a double A something I don't remember the something part I think it for the general implied we've had a very good rating the actual bond that they were rating was a tourist development tax Bond it was only secured by the tourist development tax so that was an A+ rating as opposed to a double A but they ALS they start with your implied rating and then they reduce it down for the fact that it's limited to just the tdt that is about three or four years old because we haven't had any publicly issued debt out I going to say for about three years you had mentioned that we've been pretty much outstanding debt free from four four bonds publicly issued bonds we still have our largest debt issuance right now is they're all with banks but our largest is on the ocean center for the tourist development tax bonds okay thank you thank you any other questions then I'll open it up for comments and debate uh councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair I I just wanted to uh compliment uh our our finance team for great work what you do I think we're going to be positioned very well from from the work you've done but also more so our previous County councils um and leadership team that were Visionaries that have put us you I know we're talking about a landfill here but their vision of what they seen in the future and the potential for vucha County and how they designed that and the land they've Acquired and the permits that they received was was were revolutionary and it had saved vucha County residents a ton of money because of the steps that they took years back so I don't know who's on the council then but shout out to you whether you're alive or not but good job on that Vision County Council then thank you Mr chair anyone else uh Vice chair Choy Kent yes just just briefly could could you tell us how long is it going to take us to pay this back and what we're looking at total we will be paying that 10 million it's structured for a 20-year repayment period uh this project will serve the residents for over a hundred years that's why we structured it a little bit longer than than a 10 years short payment or something like that the future sell uh would be uh 15 Acres that one we might recommend a shorter payment time because of the the duration of that project but a general concept is to try to line up the life of the project with the the life of the bonds that's why we ended up selecting a longer or recommending a longer period of 20 years the total estimated repayment which of course includes interest uh I think was around $115 million 15 million MH so so 10 million and then we're over 20 years we're going to pay back 15 million and we're going to give 150,000 UPF front right right by the way millionaires out there this is how the rich continue to stay rich is loan somebody $10 million for 20 years and get $15 million back uh thank you I I would note that we expect the interest rate to be somewhere somewhere probably just south of 4% for the true interest cost just for those that are tracking we we also uh have an 8-year uh through consultation with the financial adviser we've recommended an 8-year call period so if rates do decline to a period where we can refinance down to a 2% or 2 and a half% those interest costs would also go down thank you don't don't go away uh councilman Santiago before you make a motion I'll ask you if you will uh offer your your fellow councilman Matt Reinhardt to Grace to ask another question question anybody than I appreciate that thank you go ahead the bond rating that obviously helps with the fact that you kept that 4% and could go down yeah how long was the just for and I know just for the record our Ocean Center was that Bond itself was for how long I believe it's 30 30 years Y and how close do we are to it's 2036 2036 significantly more or about the same of what this the interest rate I think they refinanced it during they refinanced due to Bond rating probably they refinanced when interest rates were lower right now interest rates are a little bit higher right now that's why I've mentioned the 8-year refunding period because in eight years we'll be open to be able to refund it we considered a five-year refunding period because maybe rates will be lower than that but we also would expect us to pay a higher rate today if you don't give the bond holders a longer period of time so we worked on a couple different scenarios me and Jay the the financial adviser and we landed on eight years being a sweet spot okay thank you very much appreciate it and that's why we are glad you are here amen Ryan uh councilman Santiago thank you m chair move to approve second have a motion to approve the bond issue by councilman Santiago and the second is by councilman Reinhardt any other uh comments uh Vice chair Troy Kent Council uh this project needs to happen I'm in total agreement with all of that I I'm I don't like the 20-year timeline on it I don't it's too rich for my blood paying back 15 million bucks when you're borrowing 10 million bucks and they want 150,000 off the top Jake I'm a hard number on this one today that's just where I am okay we have a uh motion on the table to uh approve by David Santiago second by Matt Reinhardt Carissa would you call the role Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent uh no Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins Mr Brower yes so the motion uh is approved [Music] 621 okay item four is a fee schedule update and Aaron will present that good afternoon Council Aaron van CLE Deputy Finance director uh what we have before you today is the revised fee schedule uh we went back and took some of the fees off from the previous uh presentation we will uh look at those a little more closely and bring them back at a future date uh so what we have here before you today is three different fees that we or three different departments that we would like you to look and fees at uh fire Services is for the fire training center uh that is typically uh transition between municipality and the county for use of our training centers um and then there's you know you see the list to cost there I won't go over them all and we have Solid Waste which kind of ties to what you just approved in the last item uh this is a request for an annual up to an annual CPI plus one uh for garbage and trash collection this would not take effect if approved today until October 1st of 2025 uh and it would give the um garbage haulers the time to plan for that and then we have the Ocean Center fees they're not listed on the presentation but the uh fees were attached to the item basically we have an existing model where we have the arena rental fee plus negotiated front of the house fees um the proposed model kind of changes it to a flat fee for the arena uh rental fee plus the front of the house labor cost all inclusive um it does align the Ocean Center with the broad industry Trend and then we have like I said the uh full fee schedule attached and then the uh Lynn Flanders director Flanders does have the ability to negotiate on that as well and so we're here for any questions that you may have councilman Reinhardt thank you chair um so I've had the opportunity I mean first off the fire Services the well-needed fire department we need their the equipment tremendously all of them are important I have had the opportunity to discuss a little further with with Mrs fenders with respect to the Ocean Center she does a phenomenal job I said it before have the utmost confidence and respect the fact that she will manage that well and the fact that it is a broad industry Trend those words I like that and in comparison to some of the other areas we want big names Mr Kent had pointed out before and we have to be competitive and there's a lot of infrastructure issues that have to be addressed uh and those things cost money and I think the fact that she has the ability to negotiate those fees uh is important as well and I again have that faith in her being able to do that so uh I'm a big yes on this thank you thank you just a couple of quick questions from me on fire service I think you you answered uh my question who is being charged it's all municipalities is it is it all municipalities within Valia or do you have any outside people I believe where's Chief at outside of valua as well while he's coming down do our own municipalities are they aware of this change yet okay well that's one point I wanted to make Joe King fire chief um none of these changes are immediately going to impact the municipalities we still have the same training scheduled every year we do quarterly training at the training center all the municipalities come and train with us there's also a Westside um contingency where there's a training day out there so this won't affect anything that we have in place this is just to bring fees up to what current fees are across the state match the um equal fees but if there there's any over and above training that we're not already currently doing so this isn't going to change anything we've currently done for the last two or three years okay great you've got a you've got a good facility and um I'm not surprised that other people want to use it right and in the last couple of years we've seen more and more training with all the municipalities all of us getting together and and getting the iso training out of the way so okay thank you very much that last question is uh probably answered as well it has to do with the Ocean Center I think the director is here um and she might not need to come up but I there was one huge change and I think I I think you just cleared it up for me in the arena went from 4,000 to 35,000 I I'm just concern I don't want to shut down the uh the Ocean Center I know uh director Flanders doesn't either um is that NE is that the one you're going to negotiate so when you look at the 4,000 to 35,000 you're looking at where we combine those fees so typically um now when someone comes in they pay rent and then they pay for fees that would include and actually have it here the front of house which is the ticket takers box office um security crowd managers ushers and the EMS staff so we are combining all of that into one fee so we looked at the history and the averages of what we are spending on those on a per hour and applied that to a per type of event and came up which is combining those fees so there's two drivers in that number so we just discussed the labor there's no change in the labor um there is a change in the rate for the rent um we are at 43 Cent per capita per seat right this minute we did a comp set of about 10 um Arenas and um performing art centers in and around the area in Florida and up into Georgia and we found that at 43 cents the peab body is right at $143 and then the next one even close was $3 most people are at $5 or $7 so we are undervalued so we we're proud of what we have and we should price it accordingly so we will go we are proposing that we go up to $150 which is just close to what the Peabody does and again having the opportunity and the and the you know the the given the go-ahead from George and Suzanne to say yes negotiate when you need to I mean we will definitely look at that when we're sitting to across the table from all our deals are different every deal when you get into the entertainment side of the house and we plan to use that to negotiate the labor is pretty fixed there's not a lot we can do there but we'll have some play in the uh in the rental rate okay great before you leave I don't want to steal your thunder when are you going to announce about October oh celebrate vuia October 6th it has been announced have you not heard heard of have you not heard about it yet I I've heard it on the internet but in this meeting I haven't heard it and and that was one of the things that came to my mind is I didn't want to steal your thunder but you have landed one of my favorite bands from the 70s of Pablo Cruz I don't know if Troy has ever heard of them but it's not the Red Hot Chili Peppers close but good job the whole event is going to be so good for valua County so well well done on on that thank you any other questions Vice chair Kent yes and um Miss Landers the question is not for you but thank you I appreciate you being here Mr van CLE so uh and uh Chief King could you come back down just just for a minute um when's the last time the county has adjusted its rates to rent our facilities do we know has it been a hot minute it's okay yeah multiple years believe it was before 2000 okay okay and and that's my point these gentlemen have heard me say this before but George because some of these increases are you know when you look at them I was like oh that's a pretty decent increase I'm not going to say no to it because I I think you're right it it's it's needed it's appropriate it should happen but these incremental increases should be happening every year every two years at at a minimum George um and that way we don't have these these huge swings this is the first year we had this discussion and it was decided to bring them back at at the budget and we're here and it's budget and that's why you saw them at the last meeting and you're seeing them here there are a few based on the uh last time we discussed we'll bring back a little later but yeah our our goal here now is to every year at budget time or just before to uh review all the fees Mr van CLE hold him to it every every every year when budget time comes and and I'll just say to miss Flanders and and also to Chief King you know my father's told all of his six kids the same thing over and over and that is if you give it away for free everybody will take it so I'm I'm pleased that we're getting there and Miss Flanders I think there's more there's more meat on that bone we need to attack [Music] thanks councilman Dempsey uh yeah I don't know if this is for Miss Flanders if you're still with us okay I'm sorry I didn't or maybe George can answer this for me before I make you walk down here are we uh are we still able for the arena house rental are we able to still have the option of either a flat fee of 35,000 or less or go back to the basically profit sharing deal of 4,000 plus a percentage of the box office well that'll be up to Lynn in terms of like she said we look at the various uh events some events there's a lot of food and beverage so therefore that might be more valuable to us uh if we're if we're bringing in that food and beverage of course one of uh when we do conventions we're looking at you know how many room Knights are they in the community that's certainly much more valuable piece of business than maybe one that does not do that so those are all the things that Lynn will be uh looking into uh and and working with uh the people that want to come in so again it'll depend a lot on uh what they think they're going to generate um what kind of parking fees we're going to have that all goes into the mix so they'll have that she'll have that ability to negotiate that okay so this is not set in stone the 35,000 we're going to offer a lot of latitude to miss Flanders to be able to come down not only on the price but on the way we collect money either through a straight lease or profit sharing yes okay we will lean towards the flat fee though just that's where and then we'll work backwards when we start to negotiate like that's our let me just also add you didn't she didn't get into it but you take like the 4,000 and versus the flat fee some events require a couple of days of setup and breakdown depending on what the uh uh event is so you could quickly that that $4,000 quickly becomes uh you know 12 to $166,000 so it's not as big a jump as you think because most events are a multiple Day event and what she's saying is 35,000 per event so again that that depends on uh again what uh um the the type and makeup of the event some come right in and they're gone the next day others are there with us for several days okay I just know I've promoted a few big events actually over my life and some smaller ones and uh I know it's it's going to probably draw more people if you give them the option to not have to outlay so much upfront money a lot of them would rather risk 4,000 in a percentage of the box office than outlay 35,000 and then have some event something happen where they walk away with a huge loss I think a lot of potential promoters would much rather have have profit sharing and loss sharing with the county as opposed to all this upfront money because there's a lot more at risk I think for him so I I would just hope that we're not going to try and scare people off of the lower amount with profit sharing as opposed to just the flat lease because I think we'll get a lot more promoters um approaching us if we give them the option of either or so thank you thank you uh councilman Robbins are we continuing questions yeah okay Aaron Alex Aaron hey uh real quick thank you uh for for putting this together several years ago on past Council we changed the Tipping fees because they weren't changed for about 20 years and and my memory is still there a little bit but um from what I recall we did it in in preparation for for these new cells as well do we have an idea of what tipping fees were what we raised them to the time period and the and the dis you know uh the math in between um I'm sorry I would ask you this in the staff meeting but I it just dawned on me I just don't want to tip I just don't want to uh charge people to death yeah I'll let I'll let Regina answer the specifics on the numbers um what I will say is um when we raised those that was based on a financial analysis knowing that we were going to do the the landfill storm water system and the cell construction what changed between when that analysis was performed and those tipping fees were done is really the hyperinflation that we saw that's caused some of these projects to really go up in price um and and the CPI plus one that we're looking at is really in an effort to avoid having to do large increases um like we've talked about over you know because we haven't done them for 20 years and do those uh incremental increases I'll let Regina handle the what we changed the last time last time we raised the tip fees um in 2002 garbage was at 34 a ton and in 2022 we raised it to 37 a ton so for 20 years we were at 34 a ton went to 37 and with the hyperinflation we're proposing the CPI increase to do small incremental increases each year to keep up with Rising costs and inflation and what we've seen is um both seol and Orange County since we've raised our fees to I think 37 they've actually come up and gone even higher than what we're at now I think we're upwards do we know how much additional Revenue that that that $3 a ton would would bring in um yeah it's a it's basically additional 10% in revenue on top I'll let you answer that too soon to say a ton of money oh basically when we did the increase in 2022 what we've seen is a $5 million annual increase currently okay and and and where's it going to go from here it's going to go up another couple bucks or we based on CPI from last year of course it's going to be effective next year so we'll take the number from January 25 compare it to January 24 right now it would go up 7% and it would be about a $230 increase to garbage Council thank you guys sorry we went 20 years without doing it and I know there's a lot of inflation in between there uh I could support some of these but I just don't want to tip people to excuse me tip I don't want to charge people to to death uh um councilman Robins will you hold that just for a second till we're done questions and I'll let you start with debate abely all right um I think Jake do you have a uh a question okay then uh councilman Santiago I believe has a motion and then we can go into debate move to approve fee schedule Mr chair second Johansson okay uh so who's still on the board I know Jake you had a uh I'm going to let Danny start since I just cut him off but he can go okay Jake Johansson for a debate yeah I just uh we just mentioned incremental changes again and and uh um my colleague Mr Kent mentioned not waiting so long and making that big jump and and here we are trying to trying to do that a little bit I I I think it's important to keep our taxes and fees down um uh but but we are responsible for for paying our bills and um if if we keep it down at the rate that that we can't support to do the business we're supposed to do then then all we're doing is is hiding the problem for a few years if if this Cost needs to be born to get up to speed and get level with with the customer doing business versus what we pay for uh I I support it um and and there's also a little bit of of guesswork in in that as well we don't know how high the uh inflation rate is going to go we don't know if it's going to decrease this year so so we got to kind of play the game um if we can squeeze it out at the current rate that'd be great but it doesn't sound like we can because we're being asked for a fee increase so uh at at this point unless I hear some other data I'm I'm inclined to support it thank you councilman Robbins thank you and and uh Mr Johansson I I I do agree with um some of what you're saying I just you know I saw that 20-year Gap I know that there was uh hyperinflation in there uh as well and we have a two-year Gap now uh and I understand the thought process between incremental in increases I would just like to see it uh you know uh a little bit I know that we had fees go for 20 years so we were getting the distance out of that money I'd like to see it go a little bit further than two years before we tack on another another fee um we saw that it's bringing in what 5 million a year just that that $3 increase if I understood that correctly so I mean it it's bringing in some money um but um I just think it's a little too close and uh I'd like to kind of see where it's uh stay where it's at before we make another jump County Manager George reonal U I just have to point out again uh we just talked about the fact that we were supposed to do this uh incremental Manner and this is a three-year because this isn't going into effect for another year we're giving everybody a year notice more than a a year but a year uh and so uh and on top of that you know you're embarking on the one of the largest uh expansions that we're going to have you're talking about building a 100-year cell and there's going to be more too it's not not just what you've already approved uh like you said he'll be back to borrow more money once we put in that giant uh uh storm water system and then we actually have to get into the cells themselves so it's a it's expensive to uh run uh uh a class one uh Solid Waste household garbage solid waste system it's um um it's a lot of science to it and it's a big project and we're just trying to do the responsible thing and again even with this increase we'll be less than our neighbors um all around us everybody around us is charging more in tipping fees it's a really a credit to uh the staff and the people out there that yeah we were able to make it go for quite quite a long time but uh I think that's been a great benefit and it's always our goal to uh continue to provide uh those services at the lowest rate possible but again when you're talking about this too to the average person we're talking about per ton and most people put in a few pounds of garbage so this is something that for the for the average person uh yes there'll be an increase eventually that'll work through the system to them as a consumer but it should be uh it'll be very minor compared to what we're talking about here um with the this amount of tonnage I was just Consulting with Regina the $5 million number was two things it was the fee increase and then we also had a tonnage increase related to the storms the budgeted revenue for the next budget is $28 million divide that by $37 a ton mult multiply it by the $3 increase the $3 increase is about $2.3 million a year okay thank you um I don't see any other uh comments so we will I will call for the vote would you call the role Please chissa Mr Santiago Mr Dempsey yes Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent yes Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Brower yes and the uh fee schedule update is approved unanimously by seven and that brings us to item five contract pns Paving for the Williamson Boulevard widening good evening Tad k beer County engineer this is a contract with pns Paving for the section of Williamson between Strickland Range Road and Hand Avenue to widen it from two to four lanes contract amount is uh 10 million 80 staff recommends approval thank you uh councilman Reinhardt thank you chair when will that about when will that project begin we're ready to go as soon as the contract is approved uh tonight so we're actually got our so that would help with the current construction off of Williamson because that runs into that doesn't it the current uh widening of Williamson that's going on in that area right now well we finished the are you talking about the at the intersection at stre that's complete that is complete okay thank you um I make a motion to approve chair second okay we have a motion to approve pns Paving by Matt Reinhardt and the second was by David Santiago um I just have a couple uh quick questions um I'm I'm for this but I I think can can we can you put the uh the schedule of the three bids is it possible to get that up here I'm just I just want to who who is on the committee to to look at the bids and approve them are you on it yes sir when it comes in the uh because this is a uh low bid contract this is not something when we go through and select we'll take a look at the bids we'll review the numbers uh I look at it my project manager looks at it and then our Consulting project manager as well as our construction manager look at the bids is it strictly low bid are you required to just take the low bid that's what we had selected for this means methods for selection yes sir okay okay I'm just wondering and looking at the three there's um $785,000 difference between Hal Halifax Paving um just in section one every other section they were lower and my my only concern is that they're both good companies pns and Halifax is did Halifax see something are we leaving anything on the table that affects safety or materials that Halifax was a little more in that section but lower everywhere else uh well just just as an explanation what the different sections are section one is actually the road construction contract itself that's the uh actual widening portion of it section two is a uh uh there's a Halifax Health uh emergency room that's going in in the Southeast quadrant of the intersection of hand Avenue and Strickland they're just basically piggybacking on our contract to construct their driveway connection we didn't want their contractor out there building a driveway at the same time we're constructing a project in that area so this is something we occasionally offer they're responsible for that amount uh with 112,000 so as far as the County's concerned that amount is unimportant that is somebody else's uh requirement uh sections three both A and B and section four those are tied to utility work that we're doing under jpa section three A andb is for uh Daytona Beach Utilities and section four is for Oran Beach Utilities for the jpa we bid their design contracts as a part of ours our contractor then builds them it helps with uh scheduling and keeps things moving along and they generally get a slightly better price uh overall not necessarily in this case uh but as far as the county is ultimately concerned uh we go by what is best for us we actually look just really section one as the only part that we're ultimately responsible for uh the other numbers um you know it's really up to the developer or the two utility companies as to whether or not they do the work under this contract they can always pull out and have the work done separately or in the case the developer wait until we're done but all we're evaluating is that 8.7 versus the 9.5 and for us that's a significant amount uh overall when we did take a look at the bids we didn't see anything out of line with pn's numbers in terms of uh you what their asphalt costs were uh what their piping numbers were their um those material items are really what we're looking at to see if there's anything unusual or if they' really it's more looking to see if they've skipped something or omitted something uh if they didn't fill in cost for a type of asphalt that we need to have that would raise a red flag but or a really low number compared to everybody else but even in that case we'd contact them try to make sure that that number is a good and reasonable number or that they intentionally did that and if so uh then we move forward we always give them the option to pull out if if there's something unusual okay thank you section one is important so I sirry needed to ask thank you for the explanation and we have uh um a motion to approve by Matt Reinhardt seconded by David Santiago are there any other comments all in favor say I I any opposed and item five is passed unanimously 7 to zero item six is to accept and ratify the Federal Aviation Administration Grant project number and I'll just let you talk about it Cyrus gentlemen good afternoon Mr chair Gentlemen of the council Cyrus Callum Aviation and economic resources so this item is to accept and ratify the Federal Aviation Administration Grant and this is for the construction of Runway 25 which is our one of our primary commercial service runways um our Runway safety area this is to make it safe and this is the result of our annual inspection that we have from the safety and certification inspectors and this is in the amount of nearly $5.9 million this is a 90% Grant and so we've already covered our 5% and State's already covered their 5% excellent uh councilman Reinhardt thank you chair I love when I see the word Revenue yes that's always a good thing and the fact that 95% of it covers the cost not well it covers 95% of the cost 90% of it 90% of it and state the state takes care of the other 5% and we only take 5% five okay um yes I'm improve uh motion to approve okay councilman rinhart makes a motion to approve and the second was by Jake Johansson any other questions any comments all in favor say I I any opposed motion carries 7 to zero thank you J which brings us to item seven a budget resolution authorizing position of special assessments against nonpublic hospitals good evening again Council raski Chief Financial Officer item seven and eight are actually related uh if you recall um this is the third year um worth of this program that we're implementing this is these items are both related to the hospital directed payment program this was a program that was brought to us by uh a Consulting Group that was working on behalf of the hospitals the hospitals want this program because what it allows them to do is take advantage of some federal Medicaid funding uh so by levying this special assessment uh on these Hospital properties we collect $47 million roughly that then we remit to the state the state uses that $47 million as the state match in required State sharing for Medicaid and they're able to draw down the 60% Federal share share put those two pieces back together and through some sort of funding distribution formula it makes it back to uh the applicable hospitals it's not a one for one but it's definitely a program that's beneficiary to the hospitals it actually works similar to item 9 which is our pemt program which I'll Reserve comments for that until we get there but items seven and eight are both the the imposition uh and the budget resolution to provide the revenue and expenditure Authority and then item eight is the agreement with the state to agree to remit the $47 million to them so that they can make this program work thank you councilman Santiago quick question before I make a motion since he explained seven and8 can we make a motion to approve seven and eight Mike I think they have to be separate um they're not a not a public hearing item seven and eight so I don't believe so item seven had to be advertised in the newspaper I would keep them separate then okay Mr chairman I move to approve uh the budg budget resolution as presentent a second a motion to approve by councilman Santiago and the second is uh by councilman Johanson uh any other questions uh Councilman Ryan no any other questions comments then all in favor of approving the budget resolution please say I I I any the opposed that is uh approve 7 to Z which takes us to item 8 letter of agreement go ahead item eight is the expenditure piece of what I just talked about okay and it didn't change no since item seven uh councilman Reinhardt motion to approve coun Reinhardt makes a motion to approve David Santiago seconds it no questions no comments all in favor say I I any oppos and that is approved 7 to zero which takes us to item nine publicly owned and operated emergency medical transportation Medicade managed care so item nine is very similar to item seven and eight the differenes with seven we're leving attacks on the hospitals with eight uh with nine we're contributing General fund Revenue to stand in the state share so we send up the 40% from the general fund we get back the 40% plus the 100% uh the federal 60 sorry the 40% plus the federal 60% to make 100% we get back so the total revenue we'll get back is 5.5 million for a net revenue of 3.2 million this program has been in this will be the fifth year that we've implemented this program uh and this program has been the reason that the general fund contribution to EMS has actually not changed in including this budget that we're about to to hear five years okay uh councilman Reinhardt motion to approve Council Reinhard Johanson makes a motion to approve and councilman Johansson makes the second once again any questions any debate all in favor say I I I any opposed and that motion carries 7 to zero your work is done here and that brings us to item 10 the fiscal year 20242 advertising Authority budget and Lor's going to kick this off I'm Lori Campbell Baker the executive director for the Dayton Beach J at convention of visitors bureau uh you saw our presentation in the last council meeting a couple of weeks ago today we are here to say we heard you we heard your request we have moved a quarter of a million dollars from our fund balance into the airlift support line item so for the hob board it that is now $400,000 so we Southeast fuchia and West fuchia are all here to ask for Budget approval councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair I I will wait to see if any of my colleagues have any questions because I don't have any questions okay anyone have any questions there being no questions we can make a motion and debate motion to approve is made by Matt Reinhardt I'll second it with an amendment if the if the motion can hear me out thank with an amendment I'll second it and then I'll make the amendment okay that's cleaner yeah um Mr chair for an amendment yes go ahead thank you Mr chair uh first I want to say thank you and to you and your team and to your colleagues and the other um boards um and you know if if you figured me out I like to have a little fun at the same time but there's one person to blame for this change and that's Cyrus this is where we're at today because he hit a home run and I it's important for everyone to know that the reason for the last minute changes because I know there was a lot of discussion of how come this came about you know suddenly unexpectedly he hit a home run and he's he's been able to deliver to this airport what no one has been able to do in the past as far as the routes that we've been able to attain um and and that's uh I wanted people outside the chambers and internally to know that that's what sparked at least for my purposes the the the dialogue and the insights saying maybe we ought to invest more into this airport so it was never from a uh adversarial approach or whatever comments were made otherwise but it was because that home run we made it to make sure all hands were on Deck um and I understand there was a lot of discussion that's happened amongst several parties regarding the commitment to the uh to the uh airport and and I know Troy you weren't here so I'll just reh recap that it you know the dialogue surrounded around you know the million dollars that we had set aside for the airport from the County General funds and um I had made the comment and that there was consensus that we needed to have our uh tourism authorities to you know Pony up some more Monies to make sure that those destinations are are are are successful right since we've invested everybody should be in because everybody's going to benefit at the end of the day so that's why we're at today we're at and it was tabled it at that time um during that time Mr chair and colleagues um I've had the opport to learn about some historical stuff that we've done regarding these tourism boards um and I want to propose an amendment that uh to the approval of this that I think there's precedent and I think all parties can live with um and I'll read it Mr chair because it's more of a a lengthy one okay um so my Amendment Matt would be as a precondition to the approval of their budgets for fiscal year 2425 and for the purposes of promoting and advertising tourism in the Halifax Southeast Valia West Valia areas Halifax area advertising Authority Southeast Valia area advertising Authority and the West Valia tourism advertising authority authority shall budget and allocate the sums of uh individually 400,000 100,000 and 20,000 as as proposed in in the current uh budget uh approval respectively for airport marketing and promotion fund that will provide funding for advertising costs for Air Service carriers which are providing flights to the Daytona Beach International Airport each Authority shall reimburse quarterly amounts actually expended for such advertisements and promotions of said Air Services based on requests provided by the airport that is my amendment to kind of put some more context in it it's following a model that we currently have with the Ocean Center with the tourism money that the Ocean Center does marketing uh accordingly and then they send these invoices over to the authorities and they reimburse it back and pay for it so what this does it allows uh very closely and still with oversight from the boards U because they currently have some uh uh um uh insight into how the money is being spent but allows Cyrus to work with the airlines closely to do the marketing for these particular destinations that we want to make sure people are flying from into Daytona so uh there's precedent for this and I think it gives them the tools and the uh the boards are already accustomed to working in this particular type of scenario so sorry for the lengthy explanation but I wanted you all to know that the the background and I think where we're at today and I think I think all parties can live with this unless there's a well that's the longest Amendment i' I've ever heard um Don did you want to speak to the motion or the amendment now I was going to ask him what was the third thing you said I'm just so you're saying this is a minimum though this isn't a cap we're talking about minimum that's spending that's correct and just follow the existing program that we do with the Ocean Center but just make it uh customizable to the airport okay and I guess I just had a question for you are we going to make sure that we're I understand Delta just celebrated they're what 45th anniversary at Daytona or something like that so I just are we're going to be spending equally not only with the startup Airlines but also the anchor Legacy carriers that have been there for quite a while we're not going to we are just starting to have those conversations with your team this is a surprise to me this is a very big surprise to me the board is not under David's understanding that this is uh something going forward I Now understand exactly where you're going um we in good faith came back with what we thought you needed us to do for this fiscal year are you saying that what are you saying David Mr chair I I do have two board members in the audience as well so one would be happy to talk on the mic oh can I respond first M please I think you know the the the Nexus of this you know since our last meeting meeting had to do with u watching the public meetings that occurred uh for your board and the other boards so I did have the opportunity to review uh the the meetings that occurred afterwards and um though I will say it it did seem like there was split I didn't want to have to go there but I I will um it did seem like there was some uh TR to find the right words I'm trying to be PC here but uh resentment from some members in there that um and I'll paraphrase but I left with the impression that how dare us tell them how to spend their money um and um I think a a forgetting if that makes sense of that that board all of these boards serve at our pleasure because we each app Point folks in there to to do these jobs um and when I learned of the press ident already of having this type of a program like we have at the Ocean Center I felt did some preliminary research on the historicals behind that we were kind of sort of in a similar place where there was a little bit of and maybe George minut if you want to give some more insight on that but um there was some slight tension on how spending money was going to occur and the council created that resolution which I have a copy of here CU I researched it and it's a program that I have found that seems to be working quite well to promotee the Ocean Center so um I felt that this would show to the council that those funds are being specifically spent to promote the airports uh and the the direct routes coming uh into Daytona Beach and then our last point that what drove me to propose this to the council was in the commentary that I read in the paper uh including what I seen in the video it it was said and along the lines that well we were already spending an additional 300 and some odd million so this is really nothing $343,000 being spent in the self-same markets that breeze is already in so we're Marketing in those destinations but are you saying that we should just brand it with the the airport and and continue doing what we're doing or are you saying that you need us to give the airlines $400,000 what are you you saying I'm trying to Mr I I had some extensive dialogue with Mr regall on this can we let him chime in for a minute and I'll pause yeah thank you yes yes I had a discussion with uh cam Baker and the idea actually she came up with the idea as well of we would use a model similar to what we have at the Ocean Center so I I think you're right on when you were saying that I think we overshot a little bit though in some of the discussion of the specifics I think that they're just now talking about exactly how uh it would go whether it would be something that uh Cyrus would meet with the the Airlines and they would agree on some sort of a marketing plan that they're accepting and uh and then as far as you know we the we would probably front the money out of our Economic Development and and seek reimbursement back like we do with the Ocean Center about you I think we do it three four times a year with whatever we're doing at the Ocean Center so that's that's the setup that we've been talking about for for fiscal year 2425 is all that we've talked about so far are are you saying that in order to get our budgets approved in the future that this needs to be one year yeah it's only one year only one year oh okay yeah we're already talking about that I thought you scared me there I was hoping to make I wasn't sure where you were going with that because yeah no we're on board we've never not budgeted for airlift support often we haven't spent it but that's because we never had Cyrus before you know so yes we're completely supportive and we're working out the process we don't have that just yet but but yeah I'm looking at that same model that could work for I'm trying to make about you know three different entities very happy right now so yes so we are working toward that but if I could remind you this is an an authority not an advisory committee and the valicia County Council has done a stellar job of appointing this 11 member board that is very very involved in this budget every bit of it and they use those dollars and approve those dollars as if they were their very own so there's accountability like you wouldn't believe and so that's where I'm trying to get so that the board and you heard them they're very passionate so that the board is UND some might say a little too passionate some of the commentary I would argue that that's the kind of passion that you want protecting bed tax dollars well listen I'm glad you I think you said one year but that was I didn't want to have to go there but this is open there was some commentary that was direct attacks to some of the some of my some of the members of this board right and now they didn't say it by name but they narrow that down pretty quick now you may not remember it but go ahead and listen to it and I don't want to put I didn't want to put you in the spot but I think some of it pointed even to me because I even brought up the subject I think commentary was this is a political tactic or uh things you know along like that well which is whoever said is foolish because I'm not running for office right I'm not on the ballot and this Airport is the furthest it can be from my district so I understand and so that made me angry I'll be honest with you but what what they're the the place they're coming from is I told them let's budget for 150 because we haven't spent the entire thing in the last five plus years so let's budget for that and if the county wants more if they need more if Cyrus you know blows it out of the water we'll move some money at that point that was their understanding when they did all the work on the budget and you did say that so I appreciate that but I I have another against any of your I don't want to make it personal but I couldn't even point out any of your members on a lineup so there's nothing against any one of them personally they're very good I I believe that but if if you if you follow me historically here I've said it several times I think I said in the last meeting Daytona I use Daytona or the East Side the E side is the economic engine of uchia County and I've always said Daytona's success is the entire success for the county that's my why we're trying so hard that's my number one motive so whoever were the ones that those commentary need to know that very clearly one motive I will Passa County's economic success so going back to the the amendment Mr chair uh it's for one year um it's not a historical thing I think your position May slightly be different I don't want to put words in your mouth based on that clarification I I will take that back to the board but I think that's what they're already thinking okay for this year to to to treat it like the ocean Center fund but they haven't taken a vote um in Full full transparency our board meeting is not until tomorrow I understand so I cannot speak on behalf of the board today so this was it was a long Amendment I'm can you repeat that I'm going to ask councilman Santiago to read the amendment again then I would like to hear from Cyrus I want to make sure everybody is on the same page because I think yall have worked to come to an agreement and uh so let's keep peace but let listen to the amendment first I'll read this again well if there was a motion to approve it I wanted to add as a precondition to approval of their budgets for fiscal year 2425 and for the purposes of promoting and advertising tourism in the Halifax Southeast Valia West Valia areas Halifax area advertising Authority Southeast Valia area advertising Authority and West Valia advert advertising Authority shall budget and allocate the sums of 400,000 100,000 and 20,000 respectively for an airport marketing and promotion fund that will provide funding for advertising costs for Air Service carriers which are providing flights to the Daytona Beach International Airport each Authority shall reimburse quarterly amounts actually expended for such advertisements and promotions of said Air Services based on requests provided by the airport that is the amendment Mr chair okay and the 400,000 100,000 20,000 is each from the each of the different the numbers that they have already submitted Cyrus Mr chair and gentleman of the council Cyrus Aviation and economic resources yes Lori and the other two advertising agencies we've been working very closely and cohesively to try to find the best solution for all parties involved and and and so we've had conversations about how we're going to move this fiscal year in terms of using the allotted dollars that we have or the allotted support that we have because it's not necessarily going to be dollars per se but the airlines go about it differently on how they would like that support used and so we're all going to be working together as we get these requests from the Airlines and so I I Envision nothing different than what we've been able to discuss up to this point Cyrus would this model work for you absolutely and um I'll just say this Mr chair I know there were some others on the board um part of my motivation with this to and separating it um Cyrus has done fantastic work right but I think it's a message to the airline industry's others because he's not done he's going after more for us to show that we have now kind of sort of directed and allocated These funds in a very dedicated way for air service support it sends a message that he can talk about also when he goes after other routes saying hey our Council our County our leadership is behind us they're even setting aside monies that making sure that we spend to make sure if you come to Daytona Beach with your planes that you're successful too so it's a win-win they can live with it for I think she said I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think they can live with it for a year and then reevaluate next year but this is another tool in Cyrus's toolbox and um and I'm not asking for additional money they've already at they've already agreed to that dollar amount so thank you Mr chair sorry for a long explanation but it's a big topic okay uh Matt Reinhardt for a a question um just um um it scared me a little too so the year part I think that was the Difference Maker yeah the fact that is just this year because that's springing something on this group that we just keep coming back and forth and I didn't want to do that so thank you for cleaning that up I I did too so I'm I'm glad to hear that and that's something you've already said that you're already doing I'm amendable to the to the amendment um because all that does is just kind of clarify what you're already doing so I'm I'm good with that okay uh councilman Dempsey yeah Dave I I really appreciate you doing all that homework and bringing this up because I think that's a great idea I as you know I was against the avilo the AEL uh million dollar guarantee I still am against it I hope it works but I'm a pessimist but this is great I mean this is money that's already there we don't have to take anything out of any other fund and it gives Cyrus the ability to lure more Airlines in here just like you're saying I want to attract more Airlines but I don't want to have the taxpayer subsidize a failed Airline I just want to give him some more bait to draw them in and say hey we can offer you all this advertising on top of you know Landing fee waivers and anything else they you know have their toolbox so I think it's great and I'm going to support your your motion thanks councilman Johansson yes I have a question for Miss Baker at this point um the the money was already put in the budget so those numbers that that Mr Santiago gave you are the numbers that you all have already agreed to correct and and the boards agreed to that so what part special meeting for that yes yeah so what part of the execution of his Amendment will have to go back to your board for approval because it sounds like they have almost sounds like an execution piece not a policy piece but there might be a little bit in there they have nothing from me saying this is exactly how it's going to work out that discussion is going to happen tomorrow in our regularly scheduled September board meeting but what we approved tonight how is that going to run you don't need to go back there before we can approve this we can approve this and you guys just go back and execute no no um no I um I cannot speak for the board but I feel confident that in order I mean we can't do a thing until our budget is approved and our fiscal year starts October 1 so our but what I'm saying is we're it sounds like we're all in agreement about the numbers the budget yes the numbers have already been submitted to your staff it's just a matter of how that works out got it um and I think I think we're we're at that point we'll have that discussion with the board tomorrow in a public meeting got it thank you yes and and just for those that are listening at home this money is for advertising in those key markets it cannot be used as part of the minimum Revenue guarantee I had questions on that from someone I'm clarifying that's my intention that's correct thank you okay uh count Vice chair Troy Kent thank you Mr Miss Campell Baker what what if you all agreed to the numbers what part shocked you today because you were like I'm this is a new to me oh no when he started talking about a process and putting that in writing uh it sounded very much like multiple years from here on from here on and we hadn't discussed any of that what we discussed is that we now have $400,000 in that line item gotcha so you can imagine this is not this is all new to this board uh thought we had a plan and so they are you know I can't say it enough this board is very supportive of the airport and what it's doing it's the process and David I think you heard that on the on the um special meeting it's the process that um you know they had some issues with chair chairman after my my question couple comments you okay with that now at this time so um councilman Santiago I want publicly applaud you because what you did wasn't easy and um it sounds like you know you've you've taken some arrows and you know what that's being a public servant that's part of it's part of the deal and it takes broad shoulders to do that and to sometimes ruffle feathers but did you did you hear what Don Dempsey said over here he spoton correct about a few things and and before I get into him you know I know that I know you to be a Hound on policy and procedures and specifics and you came here doing your homework and now we have a plan and the plan is getting more specific and it's not a rubber stamp of hey the the um authorities are here and uh we're just going to approve their budgets because that's what happens every year there was some questioning and that's healthy and uh I believe your actions alone are going to be a huge benefit for our airport to continue to be successful and our community to be successful so I didn't want the Knight to get away from us before I I acknowledge that because it's a it's it's lonely sometimes when you're that guy or that girl but you're that guy so thank thank you uh for doing that and I'm going to support it as well and this whole idea about you know multiple year I mean they're going to come back every year and we're going to have this you know could be a similar discussion you know and look at the budgets could be more could be less but we'll have we'll have that discussion and it won't be as painful because you did the hard work already and you took those uh those shots for for this Council thank you thank you any other comment or questions if not I'm going to ask we have one uh member of the public who wanted to to speak um uh Ken Bots are you are still here you're good Mr chair Mr chair just for clarity are we are you treating just voting on the amendment for okay and you got the second for Mr Reinhard that's what you're going to do okay and for clarity so the board's direction is that this is a precondition for approval of the 2024 budget I was amending my original motion to include that amendment can we do that are you treating it as a to roll it in to roll it into my original yes you're not going to vote on the second then is that on the amendment no I think we can take care of it if I amend my Mo everybody's clear he amended his motion as a precondition correct as a precondition just want to make sure we're all vote on the correct motion so it's the main motion that's already been made by now it's the main motion made by Mr Santiago which is a precondition to approve of the budget for 2024 as laid out by Mr Santiago um I think it's the main motion the main motion and and I seconded it and I amended you want me to read all what he just said I'll just say he sir can can I can I help clean this up a little bit yes sir may may I withdraw your motion do your motion again with what David said and David can motion made with what David said So you you're withdrawing the second motion okay so there is no Amendment now there's a main motion that includes these preconditions thank you all right Mr chairman can I just add a comment I think our staff if next year if the board the authorities can come earlier to us um to present now we have plenty of time to work through it no surprises thank you Mr chair okay all right uh chissa would you call the role Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey yes Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent yes Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins Mr Brower yes so I'm looking trying to remember how much time this took but it passed unanimously and you will take all this back to your board tomorrow yes okay okay now you have a budget thank you okay we have about 12 minutes before we have to stop for the uh budget hearing at precisely 6:00 we might do we have more than one public participation do we have any public participation for the close of the meeting I couldn't hear you but I have one for the public participation but not for the budget hearings okay um I think we have time to do that and that'll give us time for a real quick break before the budget hearing uh John Nicholson yeah before I cut him off johnon bide uh continuing um there was a article in the paper that uh Lisa Lewis I know you don't control Lisa Lewis but I want to make it public um Midtown is three blocks away from a voting station yet they wanted their own voting station it wasn't necessary there not enough people support it and yet she gave into to him and I think it's a bad precedent uh there's no need to have it there three blocks is not that far to go so um I it's not condemning Lisa Lewis it's just the process uh secondly I'm asking you to um up your game on um the beach side uh the chamber has a leadership uh group and every year they pick a project and they've picked Main Street and um they want to improve the area etc etc uh you all own a considerable amount of property in the city limits you have all of our bathrooms on the ocean are all yours none of them are attractive there's couple that going in that are new uh your Approach at the Northern end of our city that the plaza is already rusting your plants are dead uh it's in terrible condition uh I understand that we had the storms but it's been two years you have to get back to normal we've got to maintain them and our tourists are seeing this every time they show up and they're walking through trash on their way to the beach um you can help us by maintaining your property I've already spoken to the Ocean Center about up uping their game because it's very large um that dolphin Park was never maintained thank to Danny remember Danny just showed up and boom uh it's much better uh that's why I'm so against putting that drug paraphernalia in the park to draw the druggies back to Dolphin park I think is ridiculous um but yes you can you can really up the game uh considerably uh for the city of dayona beach um I've talked to the Ocean Center years ago there was planned a walkover from the ocean Center to the Hilton if that goes in and I know it's expensive it's like a million dollars or so and that sounds like a lot but there are classes of ocean centers the highest and best class is if they have a hotel associated with the Ocean Center or the or what of the convention centers the Hilton cannot be considered part of the ocean Center because there's a Street between it with that walkway we up our game a not there are a lot of conventions that we can't get that we could get so I'm asking you to consider that you are cut off once again thank you John um let's break until 559 so because we need to start the budget hearing precisely at 6 o'clock so if we could all be back at 559 um 7 Minutes yes and then we will conclude the meeting we'll return after the budget hearing we'll return to our meeting to have closing comments by staff and council members e e e e e e e e e e e okay if everybody would find their seat we'll get started in one minute yeah they are 15 minutes you were close to last time [Music] see Jes a yeah okay it's 6 o' if everybody wants to find a seat y'all act like you haven't seen each other right okay we will call the second and final hearing to adopt the proposed millage rates and the proposed budget for fiscal year 20242 uh to order at 601 and uh County Manager George recton wall I'll kick it over to you to start us off okay this is uh again uh this will be the final uh hearing second and Final hearing for the adoption of our annual budget we'll go ahead and uh go over uh the tenative budget and the millage rates uh I just would like to take the opportunity uh before we get started to thank uh the staff um the division heads the department heads uh who all uh work diligently to put this together within their areas and then go live with that budget and of course uh special thanks to Aaron van cleek our director of or actually our Deputy Finance director and the leader of the um budget team and Ryan owski as they take uh all what is put together by these teams and form it into the budget that you have here today and of course we work with uh the other outside agencies the uh the sheriff's department Department of Elections and the other uh constitutional officers as well um and other outside agencies that are part of our budget so it's quite an effort to put all this together and uh and so here we are today for the final adoption with that I want to turn it over to Aaron van cleek and let him bring it forth all right good evening Council Aaron van cleek Deputy Finance director so we will go through a couple slides of uh information that we have to cover by Statute and then we will turn it over to public participation before you guys proceed with your motions and votes so this is just giving you a millerr comparison of where we were for 23 24 adopted uh what the roll back rates are for 2425 and what our tenative rates were set at uh in July and then again at the last meeting in September and then your percent changes the general fund comparison to roll back when you compare the roll back rate uh to the recommended tentative rate of 3.27 it is an additional revenue of 3 .3 million that additional revenue is uh dedicated to the SunRail system uh that is the increase the increase in our budget for SunRail funding for fy2 um and that is only for nine months of SunRail operations so that number will go up in future years as well the law enforcement fund comparison to the roll back rate it is an additional $14.9 million in Revenue that additional revenue is to fully fund the sheriff's budget request to satisfy the countywide law enforcement needs valua forever and Echo comparison to rollback uh it's an additional $878,000 in adorm tax revenue for each program both programs are recommended at the maximum millage rate approved by the voters of alucha County additional revenue for Echo will allow for more Grand opportunities an additional revenue for vucha forever will provide more funding for uh land acquisition and land conservation management the MSD comparison to roll back rate uh the additional Revenue there is $1.5 million that additional $1.5 million is dedicated to cover the cost of police patrol for unincorporated Belia County in Port Authority our comparison to rollack is an additional $212,000 in uh adorm revenue and we are dedicating that to the inter Coastal dredging and Beach renourishment uh efforts in fire rescue we have an additional 3.6 million in tax revenue uh when compared to rollack that additional revenue is dedicated to to funding the union agreement and the capital needs we have Station 15 Station 22 and station 34 on the list this gives you your budgets and taxes by each of the taxing [Music] funds your countywide operating revenues so this is just the operating the net operating budget of 1.3 billion this gives you the uh operating revenues by category I'll point you to the appropriated fund balance the 36.8% on the left-and side um that amount it will directly tie to our reserves on the next slide and show you your use of fund balance in this budget uh that is prior year savings U prior year set aside uh so that is not new money that is all prior year money uh the countywide operating expenditures the reserves there listed at 377 million when you compare that to the appropriated fund balance we're using over $100 million um and onetime money to fund this budget and that is mostly for Capital needs and these operating expenditures are broken down by category at this time I can turn it over to you guys for public participation councilman David Santiago I was going to make an observation it looks like we're all going to have a very safe escort to our vehicles tonight very safe everybody should feel depending on how you vote G say that thank you Mr chair nice to see you guys here and women councilman Reinhardt thank you chair um real quick just a comment for the public since we're not ending the meeting at 3:00 in the morning and hopefully many of them are still awake there's been a lot of conversation in my district with respect to the homeless shelter and I wanted to say for the record in case they he missed that meeting that we are discussing that at a future meeting um that is not inclusive of this budget um but and again I'm glad to see all these guys here too so I know I'm safe thank you uh is there any public comment no sir there is none Mr chairman okay oh no that he reads it right I did this last time he reads it sorry Mr chair all right oh wait no okay no public participation uh County council's ready to hear from you all right so uh it's up to council I can go ahead and read the rates and you can move forward with your votes um if you are voting you have the option to vote individually or collectively um however if your votes are going to vary between the funds then I ask that you take an individual vote okay um yeah anybody opposed to doing it all together no okay all together so I'll read all of them and then you guys can vote so the a uh the fiscal year 2024 aggregate millage rate I will stop to explain the aggregate aggregate takes into account all of our millage rates for all of our taxing uh authorities and it kind of Aggregates it to one because there is the 10 mil cap for the county and the cities so this is our aggregate number the fiscal year 2425 aggregate millage rate for the countywide taxing Authority valusa County Board of County Commissioners is 6.88 78 which is greater than the aggregate rolled back rate of 6.5 317 by 5.45% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing Authority vucha County general fund is 3.27 Ms which is greater than the roll back rate of 31437 Ms by 1.8% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing Authority vucha County Law Enforcement fund is 1.5 994 Ms which is greater than the roll back rate of 13452 Ms by 18.9% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing Authority vucha County Library fund is the roll back rate of 0. 3891 Ms the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing Authority valua forever fund is 0.200 Mills which is greater than the roll back rate of 0.185 Ms by 8 8.1% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing Authority fucha Echo fund is 0.200 Ms which is greater than the roll back rate of 0.185 Ms by 88.1% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the taxing Authority mosquito control fund is the roll back rate of 0.647 Ms the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the taxing Authority Pon Inlet and Port Authority fund is 0.692 Ms which is greater than the roll back rate of 0.064 Ms by 8 8.1% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the taxing Authority Municipal Service District fund is 1.69 56 Mills which is greater than the roll back rate of 1.5 646 Mills by 88.4% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the taxing Authority Silver Sands bth Beach Municipal Service District fund is the roll back rate of 0.0106 Mills and the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the taxing Authority Fire Rescue District fund is 3.84 one2 Ms which is greater than the roll back rate of 35459 Ms by 88.3% mine was longer than your Amendment yes councilman Reinhardt thank you chair did the deputy attorney need to say anything first your name's up there oh okay sorry well said GL that happened to somebody else besides besides I was going to say are you taking taking a page out of his Playbook um Mr chair I'd like to make a motion for the adoption of the proposed millit rates by the taxing Authority adoption of the proposed budget for fiscal year 2425 as presented motion is to approve the the budget Mill rates as presented by Matt Reinhardt the second came from councilman Robbins any questions any discussion all in favor say I I any opposed and the budget is passed 7 to zero all right so this is to adopt the operating and non-operating budget um so the operating budget is 1 b322 M1 153,50 7 the non-operating budget is 27,42 18,75 upon adoption of this budget you are also approving the budget for the office of the sheriff as presented uh to council at the July 18th meeting I'm sorry June 18th meeting thank you and do I have a motion motion to approve as presented second motion to approve as presented by Matt Reinhardt and this time the second is uh by councilman Santiago any questions for staff any comments all in favor say I I any opposed the budget is completed and you have uh two months till you start again three three okay I see Mike's here he's buying lunch tomorrow oh there he [Laughter] is okay all right that does conclude the budget hearing so we will go back to our normal normally scheduled uh meeting so that we can have the uh staff and County Council closing comments um I'll give it a just a minute or two to let the crowd noise spin out call to do what crowd control these guys at theous make you stay quiet the guys at the courthouse the I'm afraid it's going to be [Laughter] got PR well I have to tell you Mr chairman motion to reconsider the budget put one word out of that I said I said motion to reconsider the budget they all left Ryan's still here he can do it we that's all right okay it seems to uh be quiet in the house again so we will uh start with the county manager for your closing comments uh yes so one thing that has been asked about by a a couple of uh council members is uh we do have the first meeting uh in November falls on Election Day of course it's a national election uh if there was a desire of the board to uh either move that meeting or cancel that meeting and go with one meeting in November or we could uh add another meeting in December if you thought but I think we could probably get by with one in November and one in December if that's the desire of the council to uh um remove that meeting that's on Election Day councilman Matt Reinhardt thank you chair I I think we know a couple guys that selfishly would it would help but um also the fact that it is election day for everyone else I'd like to make a motion for the the one meeting and November for that purpose second Johansson we have a motion by uh councilman Reinhardt second by councilman Johansen discussion to eliminate the uh November 5th meeting and um that's the motion on the floor for questions councilman Santiago no just comment I guess the the ones that are on the ballot they're in the minority so I don't know if we need to I'm good with it just so there would be just the the the third Tuesday would be the only one in November correct yes I could live with that okay thank you councilman Vice chair Troy Ken thank you chairman and um councilman Reinhardt if You' have just waited I would have kept you you could have stayed clean out of this and I would have made the motion to do that exact same thing but thank you you you you beat me to it and uh I'm happy to support it I'm pleased to hear that that management thinks we can get by with just one meeting in November and then one meeting in in December as well it's just it goes to that to show that true Testament of the hard work we are putting in the homework we do to be prepared for these meetings and the hard work staff does to also be prepared um for for these meetings as well so that first meeting we will not have and the second meeting will be the afternoon meeting thank you okay councilman Johansson and and that was I I remember Mr Santiago might have woken up and went holy cow I got a morning meeting for that second meeting in July so uh I just want to make sure that we also addressed what time the second meeting would be in July and December but it sounds like uh um Mr Kent kind of just threw that that uh that thing out there so I'm good if he's good and everybody else is good yeah good thanks councilman Reinhardt thank you chair real quick I just would like to say yes selfishly it does help me but at the same time it also is the same thing that City governments are already doing Port Orange has already moved their meeting you know um it's not just election day for us it's election day for everybody to vote um and we want to make sure that those individuals get out there and to vote uh as opposed to other things Vice chair Troy Kent so you know Council Reinhardt you went there so I'm I'm going to touch on it listen I wear my feelings on my sleeves people know I like you but I want to tell you this I don't don't want to approve this because it makes it better for you or anybody else on the ballot the chairman I think this is the appropriate thing to do for exactly what you said our residents now don't have to make a choice of do I go to my publicly advertised um council meeting and participate in my local government or do I go and vote because there are people who still like to vote on Election Day and you know I don't I don't like that we put people in that position and I think it's it's extremely um appropriate and if I'm going to do a better job when we look at our our next calendar and we start looking at it I'm going to look and see if any of our election any of our meetings are on Election Day so we can address it right then and get that get that fixed um but I'm I'm a fan Ryan you know that at least if you don't I'll tell you publicly I am um but uh appreciate that this is this is the right thing to do for our residents okay County Manager anything else no sir okay County attorney no sir you hungry maybe okay that take takes us to uh closing comments by the County Council and uh Matt you're on the rotation first today oh no you're not David Santiago thank you Mr I just want to say I also like Matt Reinhardt that's all I got I have a fan somebody stole my fan Mr Brower can you clarify the vote on the meeting it was I well yeah we we didn't all in all in favor of closing the meeting dropping the meeting of November 5th say I I any opposed so it's unanimous 7 to Zer the motion uh and the second you got okay all right David Santiago I like Matt that's it that was it okay Don dempy I have nothing thanks uh that takes us to Jake Johansson thank goodness thank you gentlemen um um George I neglected to talk to you about this in my one-onone but I'll bring it up today and we can discuss um we have some opportunities to include our stem students in our County helping with issues some of the easier ones that they can tackle and including them in the solution of some of our issues um I really would like to know if we can identify some opportunities where we can uh include uh uh valuch County Schools stem students in a uh County and private sector public private competition to come up with some solutions to to problems that we haven't had time to address or or things that we think that the stem students could tackle and succeed on and uh provide us some out of the box solutions that that maybe we haven't thought of yet or or things that that they can come up with uh the reason I I bring it up is I find that stem students don't have a lot of hands-on experience at uh uh at a government level and I found that including them in the solution of of the problems gives them some some ownership in our future uh I'm I'll give you an example um one of one of my sons did a a summer internship when he was in college and and he did it with a site developer and and although it wasn't a competition um when I drive around FL County with him he points out oh you know why that curbs that way do you know why that outfalls that way and and he's he has nothing to do with construction but he takes a lot of of pride in pointing out things that he's aware of here in the county or uh you know I'll mention something about it a developer go well I'll tell you why he's got that problem I'm like and he's a a sports advertising kid so um uh I I want to provide that opportunity uh to other high school students before they go off to bigger and better things and and maybe maybe even catch the the government itch and come back and work for us um so I can work with whomever you'd like George to identify a few private sponsors and and coordinate an opportunity with uh Amy manahan who has no idea I'm doing this so I I probably need to get back in touch with her um and and at the end of the day we'll we'll allow the private sector and some of our folks uh Ben Bartlett's team to judge them and maybe even use one as a as a beta program so uh I'd like to I'd like to start moving on that um I would also like to ask councel and staff if we can bring back the medical tax leam item for discussion uh we asked staff I think it was uh councilman Santiago asked staff to look in the at the EMS impacts and and and if we can capitalize on that and I have a good understanding of of the chiropractice concerns I I think we can look into that and I've also talked to the hospital and they're willing to bring it back forward so I'd like to get that on the agenda here um as as soon as you and the chairman can fit it in um so uh with with that I'll I'll make a motion to add the medical tax lean to a future agenda that'll work for the hospital and the staff um but no later than the first meeting in February I think that gives us plenty of time to get our act together i' second that thank you okay so the motion is before the first meeting of February to bring the tax lean issue back to council no later then no later then count motion by Jake Johansson and the second one second was by councilman Reinhardt any questions yes just just one brief one um my mind's pretty sharp but sometimes I I forget things every now and then Mr Johansson you must have known you you were you on the prevailing side which is why you're bringing this back up we we kicked it we just kicked it we didn't we tabled it oh we just tabled it yeah thank you councilman Don Dempsey you're good okay uh any debate and we have a motion and a second all in favor say I I I any opposed and so that will come back on or before February Jake anything else I I have one more item sir uh I I think many of us do at least got a lot of emails on it but uh I would like to make a motion to put this uh uh this subject of the rural area boundary discussion in the queue for the charter Review Committee in in May of 25 um the reason is I I think it needs to be put in the queue because there's there's a lot of stakeholders out there who who have chimed in uh and and called me or or otherwise emailed me who'd like to address the issue uh I understand that in 2006 we looked at this and and our City's opposed s similar to the Orange County cities some of them have been opposed uh and and in 2006 the referendum failed with uh 65% % opposition but that was in 2006 so I think we probably need to give it another shot uh we've received a lot of email regarding the rural rural area boundary that Orange County voted on I know this is of interest to many of our community uh I've got some for it some against it but I'm finding based on the limited knowledge I know um many of the people that are for it or against it that have limited knowledge of what it's about or have only a a portion of the information um I'll be talking I'm on the executive committee we have a meeting tomorrow I'll be talking to East Central Florida Regional planning Council uh chatting with the Farm Bureau uh hope hopefully the Cattleman's Association and also recommending that the Agra Business Council who meets at the end of the month take the rural area boundary up as an agenda item and and chat about it and and I'd like to hear what they have to say as well um since this is an item for the uh Charter Review Committee which will start to meet in May I'd like to ensure that that staff uh and and us as elected officials do our homework uh and we may have to get briefed up on our 101s to get up to speed on the difference between us and seol and Orange County and any other Florida counties that have one and then make a decision on where to go from there um I looked at what Orange County is thinking of doing and I I I looked at our map this week and and I'm not quite sure what the differences are because Orange County I what I read and what I looked at I I just couldn't make heads or tailes out of really um but it it appears based on the the the properties that we have conserved with Florida forever evolua forever on the east and west side kind of already form a boundary with some areas that that probably need our attention but already have our attention based on our our cheered list of of properties so uh it's an interesting perspective I know chairman that that that you have uh uh you've commented on it too I think it's important that we we take the time to to take a look at it and um I I don't think we can do a referendum vote till 2026 on it anyhow so um uh i' I'd like to really dig into it and make sure we're doing the right thing and uh make sure all the stakeholders have um have their their say and and so we can move forward in the best way possible so my motion is to bring the staff research and details as well as stakeholder input on a Valia County rural area boundary back to Council in March of 2025 for consideration to provide to the uh Charter review commission or Council for consideration okay there is is a motion on the floor to bring the charter uh the the rural boundary um Amendment back in March of 2025 that motion is made by uh Jake Johansson and the second was by Danny Robbins and I will I will just add that um I've already placed that on the agenda for October 1st and the reason is exactly what every everything that you just said so that it because it's a long process it's not going to be approved October 1st we've got to draw lines that attorneys have to chime in there has to be public hearing so that everybody does know what's is going to happen and we can discuss all that in in October or in U on October 1st so I would be opposed to pulling it and waiting until March 2025 um I've already got it on the agenda there's no reason to change it it's we can't put it before the voters until 2026 you're correct um because I I certainly would not uh be in favor of a special election it would be on a normal uh election cycle um uh it's a very important issue and and uh I want to start that conversation in October or we won't get it done um Jake yes sir thank you um I would say won't get it done makes us look like we can't get our work done um a long process if I understand it's a long process um as as you're well aware two two of us won't be here October 1st um I've mentioned a few times I think Danny's mentioned it a few times I want to say is somebody else not going to be here on the first or is everybody else going to be here everybody else is so two of us won't be here um not the reason why I said March I or I said uh U March which gives us plenty of time to get it to the CRC in May um uh and kind of runs runs in consant with our selection of the CRC as well um uh I don't know that the Farm Bureau and the Agra business I think meets at the end of this month um and I I don't know if they're ready to have a a a meeting special meeting to get the information back to you or even even to consider it but I think it's kind of uh nearsighted to not include stakeholders in the initial conversation uh with with uh um with their association's approval kind of similar to what uh what Lori brought to us she had to go back to her her Association or her board for approval um I just think it's pretty important that we include everybody instead of doing it quick U maybe October 1st is too quick maybe March is too late uh we can have that discussion but but I think we need to to allow it allow the people to clearly understand it and and provide their input uh and and it'll take them time to do that it'll take me time to do that um you know a lot of items we rely heavily on on staff input and staff reports but I also do my own research and and I want to do that research given the opportunity thank you okay let me just say again that I've already put it on the agenda for October 1st for the purpose of starting the conversation so that everybody can get that information I had no idea that there would be two people here but that's um that doesn't shouldn't stop uh the process of something this important going on it's not going to be approved October 1st the only thing that would be approved is that we could do everything that you say that the process begins that we start looking at apps that we uh bring in every stakeholder um bring in the public because it is a long uh process um so that's what I'm going to ask on uh October 1st that we uh approve um starting the process so that everybody can not to vote up and down on it but vote up and down on whether or not we even start the process to discuss the issue and get everybody the information that they need celan Robbins yeah thank you chair we're dealing with all these boards I think we have less than 13 days uh in business days it's even less than that um M Johan brought up a lot of good points with it uh there's more than two years off for this to take place and I think handling this in a in a fashion just like baseball going through all the bases because of the importance of it chair and I agree with you on that uh but we do have two years for this and we have to get a tremendous amount of stakeholders at the table I don't think we can do that in in 13 days or less uh and and do this great to get them there or here at the uh at the council meeting I want to follow a good process or make a good process with this um and uh that's where I'm at right now but I'll just reiterate again because you're I don't think you're hearing me that's what I'm going to do October 1st is start the process to get the information out to everybody that needs to it's not going to be to say yes we're going to do it or not but to start the progress process so that the public can be um well informed D I understand that David Santiago I I understand that chair real quick excuse me I understand that but I also believe um and agree with Mr Johansson that putting it in front of the uh the um Charter Review Committee because this has to go on uh and it's going to be a charter amendment is uh is is an important step in the process and I'd like to have that go through first um as Mr Johansson stated thank you well i' I'd prefer not to kick our responsibility because the County Council can do this it does not have to go to the Charter Review Committee so I I would prefer not to Kick the Can down the road it's a long process but what you're saying get is that we're taking the voice away from some of these partners by not going through this proc not said that at all that's that's entirely false just did we we get we get an agenda with items we've never heard about twice a month every month of the year and we could say this about every agenda item well I haven't had enough time to think about this so let's roll it down the road we deal with it and this is one that will actually give us a long time to discuss it and and uh consider the ramifications uh councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman you know I've heard both positions on this um and interesting uh subject um but if I if I look at it uh objectively I think the conver by you making this motion Jake we've started the conversation and and Mr chairman you're saying at the same time I don't want to vote on anything I just want to start the conversation on October 1st is what you're saying but by Jake's motion he's basically saying he has started the conversation um and to start that process and he is setting a date of what was it March um that if we vote for it we've started the conversation to to to schedule some work to be prepared to be brought to us and some steps to happen in the meantime between now and March um so I'm okay with the motion because it's effectively it's to start the process in October we're not going to get anything done we're just going to talk about um here this is the idea let's begin the process to get uh bodies together to discuss this which is what we already just did I S I see I don't see anything different so the we's a lot different what the motion is is to postpone the process until March I I don't see that Mr chair I was really looking for that argument but I don't see that state state your motion again didn't you put a date on it yeah it is I've already put it on the agenda for October so that we start the discussion number one um we don't do we have a draft copy of the October 1st agenda we haven't even had the agenda meeting yet but it's on the agenda but you haven't had the agenda meeting what I'm getting at Mr chairman what I'm getting at is you've put it on the agenda I I then you should have run for it's the chair's prerogative I help set the agenda with the county manager but I I had no clue that you were going to put it on the October 1 agenda other than a a so I'm putting it on the agenda now and I'll reread my motions my motion is to bring staff research in details as well as stakeholder input on a Valia County rural area boundary back to council in other words starting the Wheels in Motion in March of 25 for consideration to provide to the CRC for consideration so in March of 25 everything should be done and we should start having votes on it this is a 2-year process for the 2026 election so we have time but I want to get it started in time for the CRC to take it up if at the end of the day it's warranted so yes my motion basically asked staff to start researching and and get it done and I'm giving them till March of 2025 and to bring it back March of 2025 correct um okay before a final Don Dempsey Jeff what Mr chair what exactly did you put on the October uh agenda a discussion on the rural boundary Amendment because I don't know if anybody knows anything about it it's a tremendous tool that we could use to stop hostile um uh annexations to make a uh I really don't want to go into the whole thing right now that's what I was going to do a uh October 1st but to to make it harder for us to change uh um zoning and comprehensive plans without a super majority of the council um there's it's Orange County is currently doing it seol county is doing it's gone through the courts it's been approved by the courts it said it's legal it does not have to go through a charter Review Committee we are a um uh a chartered County we can do that ourselves the courts has said we can do that on on this particular issue so I wanted to bring that up October 1st because it is a long process we do have to look at Maps see where the rural boundaries are that we want to protect it gives your residents especially Don in on Carter Road um the potential of not having a hostile annexation of their neighborhood and changing a one house for 20 acre neighborhood to um thousands of homes so you're not asking us to vote on anything permanent you're just wanting to do something for discussion not putting it on the referendum for this election or anything like that no it's I can't do that yet are we in discussion or just question here in well I I'm gonna I think I'm gonna borrow the lines of Mr Kent is if it's important to you it's important to me I there is a flooding issue on the west side I don't know if we necessarily want to delay this another six months I'm not saying I don't know enough about it but I'm interested because Mr chairman my my motion can I answer that go ahead so this can't be voted on a referendum until 2026 yes sir so nothing's going to happen quick right um which I'm I'm trying to think of of hostile annexations and and I'm not saying they're not but I I'm not familiar enough with hostile annexation here in valuch County I I don't know are there annexations that people don't want absolutely well so an annexation has to be asked for by the by the homeowner or the property owner so so it's not hostile if the person who wants it asks for it and gets it I'm not saying there are hos no I'm just I'm just straightening out some some right some definitions let's say um I I'm starting and I'm start I'm just saying I'm I would like to start that discussion that's my conversation right now uh if you guys want to talk about it in Council comments on on the first that's that's fine too you want to have an agenda item and talk about it I I guess you do what you want um but but I have set in motion a timeline for what I think is important to discuss this I don't I don't deny that this issue is important I just set a timeline the chairman apparently has a different timeline my motion is this timeline all we have to do is vote on it if you don't like my timeline you like his we can we can vote and you know um you know if it's important to you it's important to me this is important to me so you know let's just vote councilman Santiago want ask a question Mr chairman I know we're but I'm not aware of any involuntary annexation ations that have happened since I've been here oh well I'll be glad to share some with you on October 1st if that's important to you what I'm calling a hostile annexation is when a property owner goes and say I want to Annex into from the county to the city and nobody else around them wants to do that and there they have no recourse and it completely changes their neighborhoods forever and this gives us a tool to give them a say before that happens Mr chairman but words have meanings they do when when you say hostile annexations it's an inaccurate statement you can't just create neighood not to the neighborhood that's being taken over you're rewriting the dictionary you can't do that in that role is what I'm trying to tell you you can't do that because there's legal terminologies that are used that we work with up here I don't want to beat that I just I don't know what you're talking about I obviously you don't so okay so County attorney uh before I ask you a question councilman Robbins I'd like to call the question okay County attorney before I call the question there's a there's a legal uh situation here that that we have to address um as a county chair I am able to put things on the agenda I sent you and the county manager a letter um I don't know a week ago asking that telling you I was I wanted this on the on the agenda does the council have the authority to change what the county chair has asked for to go on the agenda and postpone it till a different date because that's that's really what's being done here and if if this if if his uh um motion is approved do does that change anything that I'm doing October 1st the charter does not have an express provision that anticipates the situation but what it does provide it allow the manager puts together your agenda the chair May supplement that agenda upon start of the meeting the council is in control of that agenda so earlier in the meetings you can when you approve the agenda you can remove an item and what have you I only recall this issue coming up once before with a prior Council where a motion was made to postpone discussion of a particular agenda item for a certain period of time so the reality is I think a reasonable reading would be you got two options you could have the chair continuously put something on the agenda only be blocked by a majority of council when they approve it each time or Council and uh council could say they want to talk about a particular item in the majority uh at a certain date I don't think they can stifle the chair bringing something up but I do think the majority can control the timing of it that's that's the only reasonable way I can read it do you you see that in our County Charter I said the charter does not address the situation specifically if you're asking me can the chair continuously put something on an agenda that the majority takes off each time you could go that way but I think a reasonable reading is because the majority of this Council controls the agenda once the meetings start it has a level of control of the timing okay whole lot of words um well I what do you mean by that what what I what I mean is I I wanted a simple answer can they can they override what the chair coun can control the timing of an agenda and but you don't see that in the charter because it's silent on it yeah oh okay so we're that means you're creating a new rule right now I'm not creating a new rule I explains my thought process if Council wants to have a situation where the chair brings up something at every meeting and have it shot down so be it I haven't brought this up every meeting to have it shot down I'm just saying you've said you want to bring you said that three times like I have and I think you're putting staff and the manager puts the agenda together in a tough situation by asking this question I think Council can control the timing of an agenda item I don't think anyone's disputing that you approve the agenda items at the beginning of every meeting what you're saying is if the majority of council votes to take up an item in March of next year you want to accelerate that call it up sooner but you're going to be facing the situation where Council has already said well I voted to have this in March I think that's when it should be called up we can we could put it on the agenda mik I'm trying to come up with a reasonable interpretation that's not what I'm saying I said I already put it on the agenda the agenda does not exist just to be clear oh it doesn't exist yet you just said that you said we have to have the meeting oh so the fact that I asked the okay this gets more and more interesting so the fact that I've already asked you and the county manager um told you that I wanted to put it on the agenda you did yeah but because it's not written yet it no me be clear the agenda is not published yet so I have a motion by a member of council to have a particular item discuss at a certain date you're saying you want it to be called up sooner what I'm saying is don't put your staff in a situation ation where you got the chair and a majority of council going in opposite directions of what they want on the agenda there should be some agreement on the timing of it but we we don't know yet if it's the chair against the County Council I'm speaking to the motion on the floor okay but you just said if if I'm against the majority on the council we don't know that yet so you're you're assuming that so the chair I'm I just to be clear because I don't want words in my mouth I'm speaking speaking on the motion on the floor point of order right I know that you are point of order so what is your point uh County attorney what are the rules once a member of council has called the question if it's opposed there's technically a vote okay if it's opposed it's opposed yeah okay so you have asked Danny you have asked that we call the question without any further discussion this discussion is really over um except that I I want to make it clear to this Council that um we hear it all the time if it's important to you if it's important to me understand we need this amount of time to do it so I will call the question and I will ask uh the council to uh vote by voice on whether or not we postpone uh the agenda item that I've already placed on the unpublished agenda that's not the motion sir until March 2025 that is not the motion we need to reread the motion my motion is to bring staff research and details as well as stakeholder input on a vucha county rural area boundary back to Council in March of 2025 for consideration to provide to the CRC for consideration this is a 2-year process for the 26 election so we have time but I want to get it started in time for the CRC to take it up if warranted oh I didn't hear that the first time if what does if warranted mean in this situation I believe this the CRC has some latitude whether they want to discuss it is that correct yeah it's a citizen board yeah they make recommendations to council council is sometimes not accepted all those recommendations or change them or uh after the chart review commission presents a report have even added an item on their own which is what you both are talking as authority of this Council can do okay but just to just let's be clear that you are that's an added extra step the council can do this as a chartered County we don't have to send this to the uh Charter Review Committee so my motion is to bring the staff research and details as well as stakeholder input on of Luchia County rural area boundary back to Council in March for consideration to provide to the CRC for consideration this is a 2-year process for the 26 election so we have time but I want to get it started in time for the CRC to take up if warranted that is my motion okay and I'll I'm going to be a hard no because this is something that the County Council needs to do not hand it off to somebody else Vice chair Kent yeah just briefly um I like I like games but I don't like games like this and this feels like a game that we don't deserve to do to you that's all okay uh Jake Johansson yes sir very very quickly I I feel it's very important as most of the other counties did that this ends up as a referendum vote uh it was a referendum vote in 2006 people may have changed their mind I think it's an important issue and that's why I think the CRC ought to bring it up for a uh Charter review and a possible referendum vote thank you councilman Dempsey I just want to make sure I'm clear with all this rhetoric going on what you're asking us to do in October is just to begin the discussion there's not going to be any vote on putting this on a referendum nothing like that we're just going to discuss it well actually there's now there's two things yes I all you're going to be asked to do is start the process he's asking that we send it all to the Charter Review Committee I'm saying that we don't have to do that that this Council can consider it and put a referendum on the ballot in 2026 so that the voters of uchia County can decide and my concern is that kicking it two kicking it down the road to March 2025 um doesn't give us enough time and that it takes it out of our hands and puts it in the charter review committee's hands I want it in our hands okay all right thank you okay count okay caressa would you call the role Please Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey no Mr Johanson yes Mr Kent no Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Brower no but the motion carries um 4 to3 that it is uh will come up in March 2025 and go to the Charter Review Committee and um so this may be something that I bring back every council meeting okay Jake anything else uh no sir that'll do it okay uh Vice chair Kent thank you um I wanted to start out and um chairman um not only think you but this Council and George you and your team we we have become a very efficient government machine uh at these meetings we used to have 12 13-hour meetings and um before Council comments because staff comment was good but before Council comment we did our meeting and budget hearing in two hours in 13 minutes spectacular so I applaud those that are um creating the agendas and I applaud this elected body for working efficiently and being prepared for these meetings um Delta 45 years at dun International Airport incredible and uh if Lynn's still in the house from the ocean Center Miss Flanders I I'll just say uh I'm excited about the possibility of those changes to the Ocean Center to help bring in more concerts and musical acts last but not least I want to wish a very happy birthday to uh Tim rimosa Tim is my Tim is my son-in-law he is 30 today and the conversation I had with him about how great your 30s are uh I think was exactly what he needed to hear but he is if you could choose a son-in-law he is who you would choose he loves our daughter he's an excellent provider he is a fantastic father and I just want to say U Happy Birthday to You Tim um we're fortunate to have you in our lives and um your family is very fortunate to have you as well good night does he like does he like his father-in-law okay councilman Reinhardt thank you chair um one issue was already hit on tonight I will hit on another one um with respect I don't want to keep bringing up and beating a dead horse um I don't necessarily see why we couldn't continue to discuss this on October 1st to give us a little more information that's fine we voted on the pro process to be started so um and I think that's what essentially what October 1st was going to do was to start the process and I get that um one other thing um so you know there's not a lot of information I understand about it either so I want to know more so I have no problem learning more we we can discuss it all the time so it is an important issue and we have all received a lot of uh emails about it and I think it is important to discuss so uh I'm open to that so so anyways um also voted against it it's now it's postponed till March so okay I can't bring it up next next week okay Sor all I misunderstood I apologize okay anyways um that's all I have thank you never mind councilman Robbins thank you chair uh a couple questions uh um met a couple times out there in Daytona Park Estates uh with that Community um clay thank you for coming out and and and giving us a couple hours of of your time and your knowledge Ben where's Ben Ben there there you are thank you um there's a lot of uh DP is is a pretty complex uh issue on its own and um everyone there has pretty much reached out 20 30 40 people and said thank you you for the uh emails that you put together with uh all that factual information on it so thank you with that but in the process of this I got to thinking County Manager do we still have a let me rewind a second clay you might be able to answer this um may I borrow you for a few minutes clay We identified in that meeting a portion of those lots are in like a flood plane area that have vested rights yes sir do we still have a a small lot acquisition program no sir that uh that the small lot acquisition was identified as part of the B forever and it was done in conjunction with St John's River Water Management District we are still utilizing it but primarily in like the cape Atlantic Estates area because that's where it was originally targeted um I don't believe the dat a Park Estates is identified as part of any of the um map a areas but Brad's coming up to save me on that answer and I was just thinking here of just a an an outside the box I didn't know if that would be an option for folks to take some of those problematic Lots so we we have nine Antiquated subdivisions that are identified as part of the small lot acquisition program that was part of the original program we have haven't um looked at um that in a while we can certainly do that um but really it was because the there there was no infrastructure um in those areas and we' had seen where there were developers that were aggregating lots um and trying to develop in areas where the infrastructure was not there and was ended up costing taxpayers more in the long run um when we have people developing in areas that you don't have the infrastructure or plan for that infrastructure would it be and I apologize cuz I just don't know would it be possible to look at in the in the future if anything anywhere in DPE that that may you know way back way in the back where it's not um where there's no utilities there's no nothing where can we see if any of these may be eligible to fit that program I'm not looking for a commitment I just certainly just like your valua Forever committee came with a goal last year of looking at a boundary expansion of the corridor um you know we can look at them have them have them because it's Lucia forever dollars I would recommend using the advisory committee to do some evaluation and and recommendation to council and if we can just make a note of that I I would just be willing to explore it um and and and take recommendation from from the board yeah if possible right now you have approximately 3,300 total lots that were part of Daytona Park estate subdivision of that there was roughly 2900 so there's 400 that are not vested the remaining 2900 have been vested uh there's approximately 1,500 that have been built upon leaving roughly 1400 that are still yet to be developed of those 1,400 that are left to be developed upon 900 are in the flood plane so we will work with Brad's folks to see if we can come up with viable criteria to ident ify this is a potentially Antiquated subdivision that could meet the criteria for the small lot sub yeah cuz if we can combo any of those lots together and make a bigger I mean that would only but uh thank you guys um and real quick I don't have much more um Council as you probably know we had a uh tremendous uh downpour uh storm uh that uh took no prisoners in um Florida shores down in in Edgewater uh in less than two hours we got approximately 8 Ines of rain and it impacted um uh the streets in the system there uh the mayor in the city had reached out late that night 111 12 1:00 in the morning we were on the phones with each other kind of coordinating efforts Ben his crews out there County Manager uh everybody was was right on top of it so so thank you for that um there was also some issues that were reported by residents uh down towards the end end of Florida shores which is still within the city uh uh of of possible uh development that they approved um uh with a a pond wall that uh breached and a pump that was running and that's just allegedly at this point I did see some videos out there uh that were pretty clear but I I'm not in a position to make that assumption yet but I hope that we can uh all come together and if there was something uh that we can do or prevent in the future from that happening that we all collect ly uh do it and and and thank you again for providing that Mutual Aid U Ben and George and County Manager to uh to uh to the city of Edgewater they they really needed it uh and less than uh 12 hours uh the water was gone I haven't heard of any uh homes uh officially reported but I do believe that there was a couple uh reported so if any of our community um uh folks uh uh Community Aid folks uh can keep an eye out for some of those um cases i' I'd appreciate it uh furthermore uh last night there was a uh uh city of Edgewater meeting uh it was pretty emotional uh there was a lot of valid complaints uh and I applaud the city for uh making the time to listen to their residen see how we can collaboratively uh address uh some of the issues um I'm proud to say that uh our assets were immediately checked on uh the 14th which was Saturday night and it was reported back that all of our stuff was functioning in the area and maintained in the area and uh so thank you for that uh but there were some remarks made uh at the meeting that hurricane IR Ian showed us where all of our weak spots were but but the county didn't act on it so I just want to take a minute and go through with a couple departments um on on briefly some of the things that our team has been doing Council over this last uh year or two since uh hurricanes Irma and Ian Ben uh with Public Works you have a minute Ben thank you um I know just off the top of my head we've adjusted some storm water fees we've uh uh dramatically increased impact fees uh we're getting ready to have a dedicated Road uh fund Workshop I know you guys been working on Nova Road Canal uh funding um can you provide us with any accomplishments that we have made forward in southeast fuche our Reclamation our uh you know aerial canal and 10 Street projects in a dollar amount that we've spent on those yeah we've uh you know had a quite a few projects in storm water wise in the Southeast portion of the County uh you mentioned Ariel and gabori um those were multi-million dollar projects that we worked on that not only address water quality but help with some storm water improvements down there we are uh actively uh you know maintaining all of our canals in that area to ensure everything flows as it should um you know we've done a series of flooding uh projects that have addressed some floodings in areas Holly Hill up in the rioe area as well as down in Orange City so you know throughout the county we've you know as these Storms Come in we've identified areas where there's issues and and some storms have different issues than others and then we work to address those um so they don't happen again as far as you know Ian goes we're um at this you know at council's direction we're moving forward with updating our studies with information from the most recent storms as well as uh current land use so we can identify capital projects that we can you construct to to um to address uh some of the flooding that we saw during the most recent forms and we're going to continue to to do that and we'll be uh bringing those back to council periodically you know to to look at and to approve those capital projects as they come in have we been working on a flood analysis uh um study with Edgewater um when we had I I briefly talked to you earlier today um but is there something that we're jointly working on where we can get them some funds that were that you guys yeah the city of Edgewater is in the process of uh doing uh a master uh storm water study of their city and all of their assets we've had staff level discussions about um including you know we have The Bard Canal the aerial Canal we have um you know a few Assets in that area we don't have anything in Florida shores um but we do have Assets in Edgewater that are tied to that Watershed Basin um and so we've talked about and we'll be bringing at some point uh hopefully an agreement with the uh city of Edgewater uh on a joint project agreement to work with them on funding portions of the study and working with them to develop a series of projects that can address not just some of the flooding concerns with the city but some of the issues we have you know with our assets as well and and hopefully a series of capital projects that we we can work together on we've worked with them on the mosquito Lagoon reasonable insurance plan and I'm confident that we can work with them on that as well thank you and I know the the conservation efforts that we did uh today that 2,000 acres in addition that other 1800 that that was was back there uh Brad um was that correct that that we that 1800 is contiguous or touching or um that is correct sir so the 1800 you can see here on the map uh that we had as part of our application packet when I talked earlier about the steart property being a basin you can see in the call out here where Florida shores I've grown up in this area so I know it very well you can see Florida shores has that 10t elevation this is a lar and it flows down into that Basin swamp at 5 ft what this property does is also gives us this you see the blue line along the property here that's a 20ft canal that drains into the swamp and then eventually into uh the North Indian River Lagoon it's privately maintained at this time what this will do as I during our negotiation process of getting the district to manage it um they looked at those canals and said we do not want to maintain these um so at that point I went to Edgewater and said will you maintain these canals if we acquire this property and they have agreed to do that they are happy about the prospect of being able uh to get in there kind of do an evaluation of where they are and uh what they need to do to to um you know um move uh forward with looking at the different ways that they can address the issues in that area thank you Brad and and I know too if they haven't already they they also want to talk to you about uh further putting in for that uh transform 386 on the second round yes this my understanding through Suzanne yeah actually they have uh a couple of projects that will probably be funded in the first round and we're working with the cities on those that to make some issues uh that will be eligible in the second round so that's going to be coming out here in in just a few weeks so thank you they'll have several projects can I ask Danny a question because I was I wanted to make clarify something if Danny will take a question Danny I want to make sure understood what you said in the beginning because I know a little bit about this meeting that occurred but did you say that a member of this body spoke and said that since those storms that you mentioned that the County Council has done nothing is that what you said you heard David I didn't mention the name no I know you said the member of this Council I think yeah no I I I believe I said that there were some comments made I didn't allude to to to anything but um there there was a member that that had um made some comments about this uh which I wasn't getting into because it's immaterial at this point because I know our guys are are doing uh everything that they're supposed to be doing um does that answer your question yeah but it sounds like that's a false statement based on what I just learned whoever made it I could I could probably agree that's why I'm asking the okay thank you Mr respectfully um going forward Coastal do we have anybody George you have anything from Coastal what what we've done yeah I think uh Jessica gave me a few uh just updates on where we're at just the other day here all of our uh vehicular uh access points uh for the public have been restored except for uh Boon and of course ISB is being redone right now that wasn't damaged by the storm it just is being worked on as we've been talking about because of the A1A uh makeover uh also Public Access has been restored uh to all of our County maintained walkovers there are some privately maintained uh uh exceptions but all of the publicly maintained walkovers are now open all the Parks have been restored with the exception of Frank renan that is an FDB fde permit review uh where're targeting here in no as early as November 1.5 million cubic yards of sand that will replaced uh for Dune uh renourishment and uh we got word that the uh uh Army Corps Inlet drudging uh we went ahead and remember if you'll recall we got 50 easements obtained in 90 days that was no small feet get ready for that drudging uh there'll be the offloading of rattlesnake Island we'll be getting the sand off of that we worked with fine who was uh kind enough to help us with that and uh down there uh we worked in the uh Edgewater pit uh where we able to uh get sand for over 300 private properties that now have temporary or had at one time temporary trap bags we have our long-term State feasibility uh study is underway uh there'll be public meetings after the holidays and we'll have a report in the summer of 2025 and so we continue of course to work with uh the fish and wildlife and US fish and wildlife to allow for inseason construction accommodations again that was a uh a big lift for us to make sure that uh people could continue working on their properties uh through this Turtle season and and we've been D diligent in protecting the turtles and making sure that worked together so that's just what's happened out on the beach from the storm thank you uh George uh Brad couple more uh quick questions for resource stewardship um how many acres uh or percent do we have that are in permanent conservation now in valuch county and then how many do we have up in the Q so 30 36% as I've said to the previous meeting um and I I would I will say that I I got some calls from my friends in the a community when we said 50% um you know 50% is not all valua forever the goal it is all federal state and local partners and so um the right now we have about 12% I shared a graph with Council earlier today that my team put together from 1945 on in terms of acquisition so we have about an additional 12% on the a list right now that's if we were to acquire everything I will say you know uh it's a negotiation process some deals just don't happen because we can't get there um we have a few that were were there but the offer still on the table if those folks want to come back to us um but that's where we are at this point you know how much money we've roughly spent in the last few years is that too much of a question no we've um so with our Partner money I think we've spent about 7 million and our partners have spent about nine so we're in a real good position right now where our partners we use our dollars to leverage their contributions and I know we had discussions Brad um and we we try to do overall as a county including the cities like a one for one on conservation of building but but what we do in val unincorporated valua would you say we're 3:1 5:1 10 to one in terms of amount we conserve because we're conserving a lot of land to the amount cuz we're we're not hardly building an unincorporated I I would want to provide you an accurate uh um an accurate number while I'm standing at the podium and I don't have that at the top of my head but I will certainly share it in comparison overall I think that would be an important um number to have in terms of the County's role in conservation and and what ratio it is thank you brand clay you're up I know uh clay your your Department's always busy um I know this Council has identified areas and ordinances of concerns that you guys have tackled uh I know you've brought numerous housekeeping updates from us uh that are in line with uh state and federal uh adhere to those that that we have to update know that you're streamlining our permitting process and uh working towards uh ways to eliminate bureaucracy all upon our our uh Direction I have a couple questions cuz there I had received some calls last night um asking in Valia County if we if if we are in the practice of filling in Wetlands is that part of our comp plan is that part of our development plan uh if so why if not tell us why not right now in our comprehensive plan and in our Charter we have minimum environmental standards identified chapter 50 identifies what those are the critical thing is avoidance and minimization and so therefore from a county perspective we coordinate with DP and or St John's who also has similar permitting our standards are higher in regards to buffering requirements and mitigation for those types of things so therefore say you have a situation where access to the Uplands on your property requires the installation of a road we would allow for the road to go through because otherwise you're not getting access to your property however we would not allow for further degradation of the wetlands because again the road is necessarily so we're not we don't see at skirting the avoidance and minimization that still doesn't you know mean that there's not impacts to buffers which we require mitigations and there are impacts to isolated Wetlands that are allowed by both federal state and local okay but it's not we're not it's not part of our if someone came to you with a plan and said I want to fill over and fill in and pave over a wetland area that I I've I've never seen that is that it it it's part of the review process because they would have to if someone is talking about impacting Wetlands we would quality of the wetlands we would look at what the why they're having to impact the wetlands in the first place and if there's a viable alternative on the site to be able to rearrange things so that they can again avoid and minimize um if it's a situ situation where viable use of the property is not feasible unless there are impacts to the wetlands and it and it's obvious then we would allow for those impacts but again it would be required for mitigation typically they do a little bit of a combination of work on site and then also utilize Wetland mitigation Banks and is that man is that controlled by like a state statute where we have to allow them certain options that pretty much above our our pay grade well the avoidance minimization is something we've contained in our comp plan and our minimum standards and we Our Land Development regulations in chapter 72 all right are we I had some other questions are we obligated to follow State building codes and regulations and why uh yeah yes um after Hurricane Andrew it was identified by the legislature and the governor at that time that we had to come up with a uniform form building code for the entire state so there was the Florida building code put in place in 2002 which is uh utilized in all the counties and all the cities and how about for um building in an aema flood plane do we have to follow that and why and and what happens clay I'm sorry for putting you on the spot uh but uh what happens if we don't follow that if Well valua County and its cities participate in the uh feem of federal flood insurance program and so part of that is you have to put in place certain rules and regulations to assure that you're minimizing the impacts to the wetlands or excuse me to the flood planes and you have to adhere to specific standards you hear us talk about you know a foot above base flood elevation Etc so the whole point behind it is that we follow the federal standards so that our residents can be participating in the Federal flood insurance program which provides insurance at a a better rate for them and then um we do the community rating system so that that way our um basically maintenance infrastructure and Regulatory worlds get a discount for those uh we're currently got a five out of a scale of 10 um we actually have enough points for a four but we don't have enough programs for that that relates to about 25% % reduction in the amounts of people pay for flood insurance and unincorporated thank you and and based on your and and moving on and I hate to keep doing this but I have to go on record because I'm I'm I'm getting calls about this because people are are are very confused um there's a lot of misinformation floating around uh if somebody has vested rights on their property based on your your training and experience what legal options do does council have uh legally uh do we what are we up against if somebody has vested rights on their property uh chapter 72 of our code identifies what vesting is and so it talks about how you can't just um we can't just issue building permits to properties unless we can prove that they're legally subdivided vested and meet concurrency and so vesting is one of that part to verify that a property can be developed upon once it's met vesting if it complies with the land use or if a proposed development complies with the land use the zoning or Land Development regulations we would be obligated to issue those development orders excellent um two more annexations who initiates an annexation an annexation is a wide openen area you can have uh votes of an area you know um to Annex uh you can have private land what most of the annexations we see are private land owners who land owners who are contiguous and meet the requirements of Florida statute they voluntarily Annex into the cities uh that's the majority I have I otherwise you can you can have either uh City initiated attempts to Annex areas that are in the unincorporated but that would require a referendum of the registered voters in that area I see Pao off to my left in my peripheral so he can give you much better information about the statutory require you're you're hitting it clay but I mean there there there's a couple different ways for annexation to occur but you know most most of them if they don't include volunteer would have to be subject to some sort of referendum and if and if a person voluntarily does it if they meet the requirements are we allowed to deny it if they meet the requirements by Statute or are we kind of compelled to Annex does that make sense well if an annexation I apologize a lot was said last night and I'm I'm trying to an annexation in in in a voluntary annexation means that I as a property owner own 10 acres I'm contiguous to City a and by anex I'm not creating an enclave then it's a legally defended I I don't know what's I'll have to defer to my friends the attorneys as to what could be potential legal battles against it but technically that's compliance with state law okay if they are creating an enclave if they're not contiguous if they're trying to utilize ride of way for gaining contiguity then we can uh identify that and we can and we can object to the annexation showing summary if they do one two and three they're they're they're good by State Statute because that's what it calls for and okay um lastly do we vote on M on projects inside a municipality on on City projects at all do we do we um have a say so on City projects for instance if somebody wants to build a subdivision within the city if someone wants to build a house this is a stupid question um but I'm answering it and putting it on the record for I shouldn't say stupid question no the the involvement of the county with the cities with their development review ranges from a comp plan down to really subdivision and site plans and and so at the comp plan level as you've heard from Mike and Pao in the past that's a legislative function we have through the vucha county growth and re growth management commission the ability to comment if a city is proposing to do something that we object to uh with the last go around of the uh Charter review they change the rules so we are FOC our focus is really impacts on our infrastructure and utilities and those types of so if we see someone is proposing a comp plan Amendment that's going to over tax and create problems from an infrastructure perspective and there's no solution identified for that then we can object then once you get into the zoning typically unless we're an adjacent property owner I don't know if we can I'll have to defer again to poo but typically unless we're have standing to object to the Z rezoning then we can't do that once it's got the land use and Zoning similar to our standards it it can then go into the subdivision and site plan subdivision and site plan where we're going to look look at it primarily from impacts to thare roads and if we are the utility provider right right but the overall project if I was a single home builder and I wanted to build a home inside off of 442 and umbrella tree that's not something that would come before us to vote on no sir you only think we would collect impact fees thank you um thank you clay uh guys good job you know uh when I hear these things I I feel it's my duty uh in the duty of this Council to um to praise where where we think we're doing good and to correct any misinformation out in the public because it quickly especially in in instances like we had over the weekend things can grow legs very quickly and and uh it's not when things are not true and quite frankly it's not right uh especially uh in the wake of a crisis where where people are reply uh um counting on us to be there uh and and and help out and and be transparent um but thank you guys you know I'm not one to sit here and and say nothing uh I'm more of a person to to stand up and and uh many of you are as well to to face some of this stuff head on and I look forward to conversation hearing more about what we do as a team in the future in in the hard work that that that our team and our council members are doing day in and day out so thank you guys uh very much you you answered and clarified uh everything my constituents asked to me is that it okay um I got it hand it to you Danny that was of pretty usually closing statements by council members are pretty spontaneous that that was that was well orchestrated and uman okay and I'm glad everybody was so prepared had the files that they needed to answer your spontaneous questions um as you probably knew Santiago um I was at the meeting last night I was actually invited by an Edgewater council member to come and I actually I also talked to well I talked to every every person on the council when they took uh a Break um talked to him about transform 386 and the money that was available um I'm I'm glad to hear that there they have something in there they didn't think they they did so maybe um their city manager will clarify that what I didn't do is criticize um Ben Bartlett or anybody else I never do that Ben Bartlett has been a go-to guy for me anytime I have an issue what I did do you're absolutely right is say that in in the two hurricanes that came it did expose all of our weak areas for flooding that's what the meeting was about last night and now two years later we still have issues with flooding I did not blame that on Ben Bartlett or any of the people that you just called up here to insinuate that that's what had happened it wasn't what I said was that we need you've heard me say it before we need to change our development pattern that starts at the state it starts at the county and it starts with us and I said specifically it's city council members and County council members that continue to vote for clear-cut developments raise them up and displace all that water into the neighborhoods and I'm sorry that's just the truth we see it happening all over we can talk about no um Wetlands ever being um filled in and I'll be glad to take you to latitudes to the tamoka Village uh rural overlay to Taylor Road to Edgewater where they are flooding severely and maybe it's the way we Define a buffer maybe it's the way we're defining a wetland but the mayor diesel Dew last night used an example of a family member that got flooded out couldn't even get out of her home he had to go and take her out through a window and the reason wasn't because the county ditch in front of them hadn't been maintained by Public Works the reason was because right outside the back door there's a 6-ft wall of sand that used to be a wetland and maybe it's maybe it's what Clay is calling the buffer but when you put a six-foot wall at the edge of a buffer for an area that used to drain into the Wetland part of it part of the actual lake is still there but the Wetland that used to drain that water water is now 5T of sand and it's a wall and it backed all that water up and that hap that's happening all over the county it happened at tamoka uh uh Village rural overlay when we when Port Orange Annex property and and built a uh uh a development there it's just it's just not it's not true to say well no we don't we don't fill in wetland we fill in buffers right up to where the water never goes away and it's just it's it's filling in the Wetland um uh I've got a whole bunch of things on my plate here and I'm going to I'm going to stick with them so I'm not going to I'm not going to allow you to uh uh pull me off but in um you also mentioned Daytona Park Estates I was going to bring that up as well one of the things that I noticed there um uh clay when I did a tour I think before you were there I don't even know if you went but before uh councilman Robbins and staff went and looked at it one of the things that I noticed was um the reason I mean it's real obvious when you go there and say it's it's flat it it's hard to drain the water flows slowly but there's the storm water system is so inconsistent that you'll see a house that has a Swale and coverts in the driveway and one next to it and one next to it and there's three houses that don't and I I'm wondering why I mean we have to somebody has to approve all of those those houses why are we approving anything where a house can go and not have that swell and not have covers because it affects the entire store storm waterer system is that something that comes on the county are we approving that or who's approving it cuz that that's what's really that's one of the major problems in Daytona Park Estates is that some homeowners I I think the the builders are told they have to do it this is what the homeowners tell me the Builder Builders are told they have to do it if the homeowner is not there they they don't they think it's because they save a little money I don't know what the reason is but it is happening there's a lot of swells that aren't there they're filled in uh when we look at a building permit we're looking at the private property in regards to the driveway and use permit and that's why you see Tad standing over to my right he'll address that but there's an inspection of that aspect to ensure that whatever existing Culvert or Swale is there is maintained um we require the Builder to sign an affidavit in regards to how he's going to be addressing the storm water and we have the right to come back and request reasonable accommodations that's why you'll see for example the lady who came and spoke about the problems she was having with uh residential development occurring around her our inspectors out there required on the property to the immediate I believe north of her to put in a basically a system to prevent the water from going over onto her property with a Swale and a small stem wall and Route it out towards the road so it would be able to go to the Culver or Swale that's in front of the property I'll let Tad address the other issues sure as it relates to the drainage structures and system uh out there there just simply isn't one uh part of what we require as a part of a new subdivision is that you implement a uh Mains and methods for uh conveying water to some system uh some storm water Pond something along those lines this subdivision is predates all of the uh storm water requirements that are in place and unfortunately there's no set design for a Swale system or a ditch system out there so unfortunately what you get is as Property Owners come in to develop you get a halfhazard setup uh where you get inconsistent ditches or swes uh some cases you don't get any whatsoever what we typically require is that uh there's an assumption for things as they move forward that uh any new homes that go in that the driveway connect s have some type of uh uh pipe underneath to allow the water to move from side to side as should be done if this were a new subdivision but again the problem we have is that uh without a set storm water plan without set graining plans for each of the individual Lots you end up with a problem that clay just mentioned where you got one home uh that was built predating uh the storm water requirements and so it sits low versus the road versus what our current requirements are where the home has to be at least a foot above and then you start getting elevation differences and an inconsistent uh flow pattern overall um and then without a lack of design or with a lack of design for a conveyance system then the water doesn't really move anywhere overall there should be a Swale system established on each side of the road that would uh take it to a storm water system whether it's a pond or whether it's an existing ditch or Swale that carries that water out of there but unfortunately because of the system as it is there is not okay so that brings up a whole bunch of questions I'm just I'm just going to ask to we know they're not there there's homes being built that aren't doing what you just said putting it in a Swale in a culvert how how is that allowed to happen because wait here here's the thing you you both know and I know that there's flooding there because of that because people aren't following your recommendations put in a sale um so I'm wondering why don't we have a storm water plan there what do we have to do to get it but to drill it down to the most minute detail why are we do we have no control over a house that's going to flood out their neighbors because they refuse to put in a Swale and a covert why do we approve it well I think I think there's a couple of different issues there as you said uh usually when you're talking about flooding out your neighbors specifically it's a case as clay mentioned where you got one proper property owner building at current standards versus a property owner whose home predates the uh the standards so it's at a lower elevation you know it takes quite a bit of work in that case to make sure the water doesn't move from that higher lot now down to that lower lot and as clay mentioned you can put in uh put in sidey yard swells you can put in uh stem wall you can do different things but um none of that is specifically required by our code it just says that you're not allowed to send water to your neighbors overall so that's why we put in in place the affidavit that was really the best requirement that we could come up with uh because the rules don't specifically our rules do not specifically state that otherwise or require that so um with regard to the flooding issue overall wa wait our rules don't require what they don't require that you specifically put in a grading plan that that pushes water uh away from your neighbors overall it uh allows for the historic flow that currently exists so if you you got a lot that sits even 6 in higher adjacent to a lower lot that water historically moves in that direction it's by even state law allowed to occur in that direction you come out and fill it more and send more water that way well that that's what's happening so um the uh uh to get a change in flow pattern to send the water out to the front of the lot which is how most uh subdivision designs generally are set up now uh then you you got to go in there and add elevation you've got to go ahead and potentially put in selles or do other types of improvements to keep it from going side to side as it may be doing right now uh obviously it's a case-by case basis and it's not a problem on every lot but certainly it's enough uh that it uh demands attention yeah it's a problem with a lot of lots and a lot of the lots that I saw are build at grade right next to each other and one has a Swale and a Culver the next one doesn't and so it becomes a dam and it backs up either to the house next door or the house across the street and and I can't speak to the previous all I know is all I can tell you is that with our current every time we allow for a driveway connection we require them to put in uh a pipe underneath that driveway that establishes that flow condition and and I'm glad to hear that go ahead and put that in but no we don't have any Mass control in this case which is you know part of why the subdivision rules have been developed the way they are which requires that all these things be put in place prior to building on any the Lots so as you said some of them have been there for a long time and they didn't put in a swell they didn't put in a a covert is is there a remedy I mean it's it's going to end up being really expensive to go in there and put in a storm water system is there is there transform 386 funding for storm water that can go in there and repair that what's what recourse of all the homeowners have uh well there a couple of different potential recourses uh you could do a special assessment District um you can uh I don't know what the budget is for a budget or for transform 386 but this would be quite a large undertaking first thing You' need to do in a case like this is probably go out survey the properties identify where the water could go based on those surveys and you know you don't want to you don't want to just start moving water water's going to go someplace somebody's going to at the bottom of the hill and they're going to suddenly receive a lot more water than they previously had and they're not going to be happy so you don't want to just go out there willy-nilly and send uh Lor CO's crews out there and start taking holes in the ground we need to study and figure out what needs to be done and then uh where we can put the water in the first place and then start moving it to that so it would be quite an effort and it would take a while to do that especially with new so how do we get to that point making a one of the things that came up out there was this specific question you know how how can we fix things and one of the things we talked about was and and what we're looking at is we've we've done a subbasin study of DPE it's old but really go out there and do a study and and look at these issues and understand that at some point DP is going to get built out um and take a look through that study and see what could possibly be done identify the deficiencies I mean tad just spoke to it you've got different types of storm water conveyances you got no storm water conveyances and so that will give us an idea of what's needed and then you can go back and develop a cost to put in a system that might actually work a ball you know a budgetary cost and then we can go speak to the back to the DPE folks and explain to them special assessment District this is the infrastructure that should have gone in had you know when we build subdivisions now that infrastructure goes in so this is the infrastructure that should have gone in this is the infrastructure that would have been built into the cost of your lots and your homes and so we can explain how that is going to how much that is going to cost and what that would entail from a macro perspective and see if they would be interested in approving a special assessment to get that kind of work done has there been a watershed study done in that area there has been one that's been done in DPE a subbasin study um we're going to be coming back to this Council per y''s direction to provide a priority list for the uh the watersheds that need to be updated um that's one of them that's going to be pretty high up on the list okay recommend recommended okay good because I I I don't know how we get to the I I'm not blaming you there's a huge problem out there I'm looking for Solutions and answers and and we have to work together it's the same thing that I told Edge order last night um just so that you know cuz I don't know what you've been told but but um I didn't blame Edgewater on you I said let's get on the same side of the desk let's get your city council the County Council sit down and look at what ditches do we maintain what ditches do you maintain where are the where are the uh issues if any but we've got to work together the cities and and the county so um thank you uh uh Jake Johansson yeah thank you sir um and you may not be able to answer it but but is is DPE could we consider that uh blighted or low-income Community I'm I'm not sure I don't know what that that that ties into like an LMI type situation that's a little out of my the reason I asked is from a from a uh uh not Deo Commerce had money to to help defay the cost of that special taxing District uh uh cost because I know once you do the study and you say this is what it's going to take they're they're going to go yeah and you know we talked about that out there and the advantage to DPE as clay alluded to is there's 3,000 Lots out there so you get a little bit of an economy of scale similar to what we got in West Highlands okay uh thank you is Clay still here yep oh hiding behind the big guy um you can probably help me with this uh chairman I just wanted to tell you John Nicholson's gone even John Nichols even John Nichols even John Nicholson left sir okay okay sorry uh honon Delan there is a 142 lot uh development that I guess it's been proposed as a confer con conservation subdivision are you aware of it yes sir uh there's two of them actually there's two separate properties that are utilizing the conservation subdivision regulation for their development approval um the conservation subdivision um came out of the 2014 Smart growth policy implementation committee I'm aware of it because I was the chairman um that committee identified um based on the smart growth policies that were adopted by the comp uh County to put in place this conservation subdivision standard is basically uh focusing on like a low impact development standard where you would have at least 60% open space and get incentives for uh conservation of wetlands preservation of habitat um maximizing open space so that that way you could uh again do a development which had the smallest footprint on the area it was uh you know Limited Basic basically to the Eco and Norma areas uh the environmental Corridor over overlay and natural resource management area um the whole point was uh serving the subdivision process at as the method of approval as an incentive to utilize those who uh who approves is a conservation subdivision just the planning department well it goes through uh it goes through the standard platting subdivision so you have an overall development plan a preliminary plat and final plat uh the technical review is carried out by your technical staff the DRC approves the overall development plan and the preliminary plan plat uh ultimately the final plat is approved by the council as a consent item the final plat is yes sir okay um that's one of the issues with with social media is that and from Neighbors that live in the area um it's not their fault but they are afraid they have no say whatsoever um some pretty prominent area residents say it's this particular place is already a wet land they said it's wet our properties are are now flooding they've been they've been wet for two weeks and if this is developed it's going to get worse will they H so it It ultimately comes back to the County Council but just for the plat yes sir so the neighborhood that surrounds it has no no recourse no say realize that this is the same process we have for all of the subdivisions be it a conservation subdivision or a dirt road subdivision or a regular subdivision the overall development plan and the preliminary plat are ad ministerially approved through the DRC and the final plat is the thing that the council takes official action on mainly because state law mandates that the council has to sign off on the final plat um so yes it it is a process that follows the standard subdivision rules and regulations so the public will with all those things you just mentioned there's public hearings there's no sir what do you mean no sir no there's no public hearings through overall development plan the preliminary plat it's a a technical application of the code to the the prop proper y so it goes through the staff and then to the DRC but the approval of the overall development plan and the approval of the preliminary plat it's the development Review Committee there's public hearings and that it's in a normal subdivision it's posted this is what's going to happen no sir if it's if it's got the zoning and every the only time that you have a public hearing is when you're changing the comp plan so in a in a um uh conservation subdivision um zoning doesn't matter does the uh I thought it overrides zoning no the conservation subdivision is based on the underlying land use that allows it the land use that is underneath it dictates the density and you get density bonuses for the amount of wetlands that you conserve the amount of open space that you can serve so therefore it's it's not changing the land use it's not really changing zoning it's just taking all of the development that that property has available through the future land use element and basically compressing it into one area so that you have greater open space around it so what is your recommendation to me and to the neighbors that are calling that are scared to death of this coming in that it's it's just going to flood us out what recourse do they have well right now it's in compliance with the code and as a matter of fact it's it's the candidly type of development that previous and current councils have identified we want to utilize because it is implementing many of the the liid standards of compact development with an extensive amount of open space so that that way the storm water is kept on sight at the proper locations so we'll be glad to meet with whoever wants to come in and go over the plans and show them what's going on um and but again it it's got to meet our storm water requirements it's got to go through that uh review if this was just a regular subdivision we'd be having the same conversation you know the big difference between the conservation subdivision and a regular subdivision is that a regular subdivision can go and impact more areas whereas this is an attempt to condense the development into an area that and maintain a higher level of open space so the council um and then I assume the public our only chance to have uh any input on this will be at the plat sir technically no the final plat is basically an administrative uh situation where the council is reviewing it to ensure it's complying with state law in regards to that and because it requires the signature of the chairman of the planning and land Land Development regulation commission and the um County Council chair I guess that gets back to my original point so we don't have any say in it and the public has no say no sir wow and I would say that's why we continue um to have to deal with with flooding Mr chairman can I add thank you very much yes um I want to talk I do think most people want to go home but I think um to clarify that I think we do have say we had say when we created the ordinance and the ordinance is the law of the land yeah we didn't but a previous Council but but that sometimes you have to undo things because well then propose it that's that's what you need to do propose those changes but in the me question but in the meantime they're whoever that is I don't even know where it is they're following the road they're following the ordinance and the laws of of our County yeah they are gosh oh my gosh uh in Holly Hill um every time you don't you're good uh every time that it rains not necessarily really hard rains um there's raw sewage backing up into people's um bathrooms bathtubs um it's sewage mixed with um drainage water and it's coming into their homes it is a um it's an incredible problem the same thing happened during the rains uh in Edgewater where uh manhole covers were blown off and raw sewage is is um uh being dumped out on the on the streets um that's one of of the reasons that I wanted to bring up and have brought up the rural boundary agreement because it would help with things like that another thing that would help and this is my final thing everybody um is um section 202.4 requires minimum environmental standards um it was added um in 19 86 to the county Charter I am I have heard I think I think we heard it again tonight that um the county has no say no input at all at what happens in a municipality in a city um according to 202.4 um that's just not true it's it's false um the section makes it clear that the county um has already exercised durur jurisdiction within all these municipalities when um 202.4 was passed um we can have input into the cities but right now we're not if what is being said in public is true and um so Mike I'm not accusing you of this but I would like to know if County council members are being instructed being told that there's nothing you can do um about anything that a a city does no I mean what we've said before is pointed to 202.4 that allow for establishment of minimum standards I think in your ordinance you it's about 70 pages of environmental standards that were adopted by ordinance of this Council uh on that subject what what we don't have is zoning a comence of land Authority within the cities so that's all I've explained and that's that's what I understood that's what you told me a long time ago so I was surprised when I heard that that um council members were being advised that there's nothing that we can do I believe 202.4 um requires us to uh to set minimum standards and and that since gosh 1986 the cities were required um does any but George do you know which cities have uh applied and given us their minimum standards I know that well I think that D land and Edgewater have I believe all of them I know a few years ago we did an audit of uh what they had said and I think we found everybody to be pretty much in compliance uh if there may have been one or two that maybe hadn't updated something that we had updated but they all have uh standards most of them follow depending on uh if you're talking like storm water they tend to follow uh St John's Water Management standards um but there may have been a few years ago I think the council increased some buffer standards and uh I think that's the last time we took a look to see what uh the cities had done um along with that and um but yeah they they all have standards and and they are at least in in alignment with what we have okay are they are they standards that they have written or they just have they just said we'll just comply with the counties or St John's standards they can do it yeah they can do either basically they have their own and a lot of them know default to like St John's okay that's not the that's that's not the and I'm probably wrong I'm not a lawyer I only play one at home but when I read the law I see that they have to write their own standards but um you don't think that's true uh clay Urban director of growth and Resource Management um I know that in the past working at a city that when it came to it we could ACC adopt in our codes a reference to the county standards and as long as we did that we were in good graces with fuchia County and then there are some things where the county prevails and the cities don't have to uh you know there's so the minimum standards that you see for storm water those typ YP of things um when all of those came through as you were saying in the 80s and into the 90s I know that when I was at the city of Orman Beach and at the city of Port Orange we had to basically verify that all of our minimum standards were consistent with the counties I know at Orman there was a couple times where we just said we're going to defer to Belia County's minimum environmental standard and utilize that as the requirement yeah okay that was my question they were they were codified they have it as Z own right it for example I'm familiar with Orman beaches at one point they had their own set of classifications for wetlands and very complicated Wetland protection but it was above and beyond what Valia County when they got rid of those standards they basically put in their code of ordinances Wetland shall abide by the valuch county minimum standards and St John's River Water Management District standards okay okay then then here's the the million dooll question that comes after that if we discover um that if we think that those standards aren't working if we have sewage backing up in homes in Holly Hill or in Edgewater or storm water systems that aren't working the law um the current law says as a charter government we can go in um to a city and raise their minim minimum standards because they're not working and the law says that they defer to to uh the county charter government counties operating under County Charter shall have all powers of local self-government not inconsistent with General law or with special law approved by vote by the electors the governing body of a county operating under a charter May enact County ordinances not inconsistent with General law the charter shall provide which shall Prevail in the event of conflict between County and Municipal ordinances and our Charter says that it defers to uh the county the county um would take precedence now I'm not suggesting that we go to all the cities and tell them what to do I'm suggesting we get on the same side of the desk with them and say look we got flooding from one end to the county to another we got to figure this out the minimum standards um are not working and we need to uh improve them which is why I wanted to bring up the rural boundary agreement because it gives us even greater tools to do that along with the cities and does prevent um annexation uh or gives us a no it it can help it can prevent annexation that surrounding neighborhoods don't want it gives a County uh more power because usually the annexations are coming from the cities um to us the Mr chair at 5075 of our code and I don't expect any of you to have that in front of you but that is your environmental minimum standards and it provides a mechanism the county uh the remedy for the county we Sue yes we sue sue a city for not uh enforcing uh the minimum standards because they can enforce or adopt them as our own or adopt something more strict um we would just need you know just more of a staff level issue but we would need to know they aren't following it but if they aren't we can sue them to enforce so if they are following it and it's inadequate you can change the standards yes okay thank you that that's what I wanted establish here today that we're not uh uh we're not with without options we're not we haven't been neutered we can work with the cities and increase standards if they have to be it's not it probably won't be easy but we it's not accurate to say that there's nothing we can we can do and again go ahead did you want okay so thank you for CLA I I knew that was the case because you and I had discussed it gosh maybe my first few months in in office yeah the the rural growth boundary discuss Orange County is is my understanding has gone through a charter review process and what is resulted from that is my understanding is the rule boundary Amendment but it's a separate amendment that would also apply some restrictions on voluntary indexation so it's technically two amendments I don't know how many are actually going to their voters but there's two lane use related ones um so you have a couple different things that play you already you have a tool currently where the environmental minimum standards that Council can Implement by ordinance you could amend of those if you so wish there's a process uh in the code and a charter to do that basically interacting with the cities getting their feedback before you would adopt it which what was done I guess in the mid 80s uh most of these uh environmental M standards were adopted in your code 1988 appears yeah right so uh the County council could strengthen our own requirements um because things change over time and according to 50 that you brought just brought up 5076 it says in the event of a conflict between any standard procedure requirement or regulation established under this article by a municipal ordinance enacted by a municipality in the county and a standard procedure requirement or regulation established by an ordinance of the county the County ordinance shall Prevail within the municipality to the extent of any conflict and that's basically the language you see in our state constitution it is is what makes Charter counties unique compared to non-charter counties because non-charter counties are have only those Powers the legislature gives them and Charter Counties have those Powers the legislature hasn't taken away uh and so it is a different um model uh in in that way that Charter Counties have the ability to do that um so so thank you and that that's all I wanted was is to just uh have that confir confirmation that um the county is has not been neutered um that we can uh affect problems that we have with our with our cities thank you for you know the Orange County what Orange County is doing is it's not identical but similar to what this Council put on the Battle 2006 really different from environmental minum standards because it's waiting into um land use Authority being exercised by the county over a city in some respects that's an oversimplification of a complicated set of amendments and and within that rule boundary given the county um the uh I I call V Authority that's not what they call it but it requires a approval of the County Commission yeah if a city was annexing in that area okay thank you uh that's all I had thank you for uh bearing with me uh Danny Robbins thank you chair uh County attorney real quick clay hit on it earlier the difference where we do have control and not in terms of voting do we have control over anything to do with the city's zoning in the projects that they I just want some clarity because I know there's a separation there yeah we can set standards on on one end but but in terms of uh voting on their projects no and Zoning no currently the cities in Valia County have their own independent zoning in comence of planing Authority you the state constitution says a charter can specify what controls within a city either the county regulation or the city regulation so the environmental mum standards in 202.4 were an example of where U the council was given higher authority over cities on those environmental topics for the standards but not the zoning and the projects thank you thank you all right this thank you for bearing with me Mike and discussing that because it's going to be important for um the rural boundary Amendment and and other things that are coming our way so we are adjourned at 8:16 [Music] for e e