welcome to the regularly scheduled public meeting of February 5th 2024 of the township Washington Township Council adequate notice of the meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act by the Township Clerk to at least two newspapers in January and this meeting has been posted on the township bulletin board electronic Message Board WCTV and on the township website please notify the municipal clerk for any disability requirements necessary for attendance and mayor and Council meetings the fire exits are located through the double doors to your right and through the door on your left please silence all cell phones could everyone please stand for a salute to the flag Alle to the flag of the United States of America the rep for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you roll call councilman Casio here councilman seers here councilman Omen here Council valz here council president desum here let the record reflect also in attendance mayor Peter Camari Township administrator Mark de car Township attorney Ken Po and Township Clerk Susan wowski PSA for February 5th 2024 due to construction work on Tuesday February 6th and Wednesday February 7th Washington Avenue will be closed to westbound traffic between Clinton Avenue and pasak road from 7:00 a.m. until approximately 3:30 p.m. Motors motorists should expect detours and delays in the area the police department will have officers for present in the area of the construction zone to assist motorists as needed Township calendars will be mailed out the second week of February quarter 1 taxes were due February 1st the tax office will be open on last day of the grace period Monday February 12th until 6 pm. 2024 animal license renewal were mailed out in late December please note the $5 late fee began on February 1st Town Hall will be closed on Monday February 19th in observance of President's Day the next council meeting will be held on Tuesday February 20th at 700 P.M approval of minutes May May 15 2023 public meeting May 15 2023 conference meeting do I have a motion so moved second only only you sorry second roll call for just the three right councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman man State good answer Council Les yes council president to Senate obain approval of minutes May 22nd 2023 special public meeting do I have a motion so move second call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman om man obain Council woman valz yes council president to abstain approval of minutes June 7 2023 public meeting June 7 2023 conference meeting do I have a motion so move second call councilman cassum yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen obain Council valz yes council president the sen abstain approval of minutes June 27 2023 public meeting June 27 2023 conference meeting do I have a motion so Mo second roll call C CIO yes councilman Sears yes councilman Alman Council valz yes council president de abstain thank you thank you Mr Dar Carlo the report of the administrator yes good evening council president Desa and everyone this is my resident in Council questions concerns response from Township meeting January 15 2024 uh from the last meeting there were no resident concerns or questions uh that I needed to follow up on the council concerns and questions Council requested further information on several topics identified as a difference card tax revaluation DPW conceptual designs and the balance of our Capital Surplus and capital Improvement fund all that information was provided to council I believe it should all be in your packet tonight thank you Sue and um most of those topics if not all of them will be discussed at some point this evening and I will keep all my updates for the project tracker during conference agenda thank you thank you Mr D car mayor K Mar report of the mayor thank you good evening everyone thank you for coming out um Police Department news police chief John Calamar assumed the command of the department from retired Chief Skinner we thank Rich for his service and wish him much health and happiness in retirement the new Chief was also sworn into the Bergen County police chiefers police chief Association Lieutenant pakora and Corporal ozen Brook conducted a threat evaluation and assessment at one of of our gathering locations in town Patrol officers learner and Ray completed their field training programs patrol officer hilarus and slo2 Steven ryell began the monthly I'm sorry the mors County Police Academy basic recruit training program Recreation news the 2023 2024 basketball season is off to a great start there have been some very close and exciting games as always thank you to all the volunteers for this and our many other programs the 2024 lacrosse season registration will be ending on Friday February 16th the fund with art program will be back for another season this spring this program continues to increase in enrollment each season registration will be open through Friday March 1st there's a maximum number of 15 registrants for the program if the maximum number of registrants is not met by Friday February 9th the program will then be open to non-residents the men's 2024 over 33 softball program registration will be opening on Friday February 16th through Friday April 12th please visit the town website for more details on all of our rec programs public affairs the town is in need of a public affairs director I ask anyone who may be interested in the position to contact me via email at mayor atwp of washington. us or call Rado deleski at 20664 4404 fire department news January was a busy month for the dedicated volunteers with the Department responding to about 25 calls they are happy to report there were no significant emergencies however due to their extensive training and commitment of their time they are always prepared for anything some of their call outs were for a high SE overeating in one house water leaks and a slight smoke condition due to a furnace issue the department held its testimonial dinner for ex-chief gougar along with the swearing in of this year's fireboard as always the department thanks the mayor and members of the council and administration for attending the department drilled on a house scheduled for construction they thank and appreciate the property owner for allowing them to use the house it allows the department to run real life scenarios for for its members to be ready for the real thing DPW news the DPW responded to a couple of snow events Christmas trees were collected the employees have been taking multiple safety courses catch basins and drainage easements were inspected in zone one any issues were noted to be addressed when weather allows Library New Year new events December's vibrant holiday programs led to a restorative January at the library featuring Health talks for seniors chair and Matt yoga teen game night crochet classes and stitching groups as well as a special animal class for preschoolers the ever popular puzzle competition was Saturday January 27th and on February 3rd they had a community drum circle event check the library website for more upcoming programs and registration info Municipal Alliance News 2023 finished the our second year of receiving the division of mental health and Addiction Services grant for supporting youth mental health they are extremely excited for all the wonderful programs and events that this third and final year of the grant will bring the municipal Alliance grant program continues to flourish and plans are already being made for our 2024 school and summer events and they have great news this year after 30 years of offering this Grant the state has finally set up an online portal this should make submitting and tracking funds to be received much easier in the years to come and now the part of my report that I wish I did not have to do but in appropriate behavior needs to be addressed I will now read the responsibilities of the council president according to the Township Code the president of the council shall be chosen by the council for a term of one year and he shall a preside at all meetings of the council and of the committee of the hall at informal conferences B appoint s such special Committees of the council as may be required C State the question and announce the result on all matters upon which the council may vote D rule on questions of order subject to appeal of the council e sign all ordinances and resolutions adopted in his presence F preserve order and theorum at all meetings of the council and G have other such functions powers and duties as the council May from time to time prescribed there's nothing contained in the responsibilities regarding censorship of anyone the role of the council president is a serious one and should be treated that way not playing games by silencing anyone who the president may not agree with and for those of you who are not aware of the history this is not the first time Council the Senate has chosen to prevent me from speaking at a meeting he wasted no time in doing so during his stint as council president during his first term as a councilman if it's me in the past and again now it can be any one of you tomorrow considering these habitual facts pass and present I would ask council president the Senate to resign from the position of President and allow the council to choose someone who will restore integrity and dignity to the president position if he does not and to leave politics out of it I ask that one of his running mates initiate a vote of no confidence and the other running matate second this motion there's nothing to think about on this topic if his running mates refuse to do so it shows they condone his behavior and they agree with the position being used to censor people instead of putting someone in the position who will treat everyone with the respect they deserve not just the people they agree with On a related note there is nothing in those responsibilities regarding the agenda for the council meetings I do not believe councilman the Senate started the current practice of the president being copied when requests for agenda items are submitted but it is time to end it one duty of the municipal clerk is to serve as clerk for the entire Council I believe that means the clerk should accept agenda requests from all parties for the meeting and prepare it there is no reason for the president to be mentioned at all in the reminder for the agenda items the council president has no veto power on the agenda or has any reason to know the items on it in advance the rest of the council members do not report to the president but with the current procedure it can sometimes seem that way that concludes my report thank you thank you Mr Mayor report of the council Mrs we're not going in what do you mean I just going to start it that in the work um all right thank you so on January 18th um councilman seers and mayor Kari and myself we attended the GIF reorganization me meeting which focuses on modernizing risk management it was nice to hear how they are working to um provide security for us including cyber Securities which is one of the um topics I brought off a couple of months ago on the 19th we also attended the ambulance um event at Seasons and it was really nice to see new members the youth joining the ambulance as well as meeting some lifelong members so thank you so much to our volunteers on the Ambulance Corp for everything you do and what you provide to our community um I know it's hours upon hours as we were um informed at the event on the 20th it was a very busy can you turn turn your microphone yes thank you on the 20 of January we also had everyone please just Pi sure microphones thank you we also had the pleasure of attending the fire department event at Seasons and I can say that they have great ener energy uh great leadership a big thank you to Mr Jason gouger for your time and dedication to our community as well to all the volunteers on the department thank you so much for your service and your patience with our residents with all of us um a big thank you to all the volunteers on our departments um and then I guess this is kind of a joint if if that's okay with Mr with councilman Sears on April 27th we're happy to announce on April 27th we will be hosting the second annual family 5K run and walk and healthare um we're excited to bring this back um it was a great success last year and we're looking forward to working with our res residents and you know bringing out the families uh the course will hug the streets of scho Lake starting and ending on Woodfield it starts off at 9:00 a.m and a big thank you to Bethany Community Center for hosting us once again the course is flat fast so anybody that's looking for a personal record this is the course to do it on this is a familyfriendly event bring your neighbors bring your cousins aunts everybody it was a really nice event last year the health fair will also begin at 9:00 a.m. which I know councilman SE will go into more detail about um so I'll let you handle that and all the details and links will be posted this week on our town website as well as the official Facebook pages so we're really excited to bring you this event once again um and then I guess I I will let Mr Sears also report on our next uh project together regarding um some veteran banners so I'll let him um take over that and then I have a project that I have been working on so if you can bear with me um over the last two years on Council and more so over the last year I've been approached and heard in Cas casual conversation the difficulty that some of our residents have experienced when trying to improve their homes I've heard from Professionals in the fields that we are that town when it comes to Home Improvements and I don't want to be that town so I shared my findings with mayor kalamari Kari and he very enthusiastically supported the idea of a plan to modernize simplify and streamline our building process so in the fall when Mr Beck Meer of beckme engineering became our engineer to the building department um that gave him some insight into the areas that we can improve upon so with the mayor's consent I met with Mr beckme now our town engineer and we discuss several areas and ways we can upgrade the town's home improvement process the goal here is to encourage our residents to invest in their properties by modernizing and streamlining the process to make their properties their dream home while maintaining the Integrity of our cozy community so I want wanted to inform the council and residents that from time to time you will be seeing engineering related topics on the conference agenda and I hope to have the support of the council as I work with the mayor Mr Beck Meyer to identify opportunities so we can improve our beloved Township I really would like to see us be that town for great reasons and bring allow people to turn their homes into their dream homes I think it's a it's a testament to the beauty of our community when people do not want to leave but just need a little extra space um to grow their family so that is a project that I'm working on um and I hope to report more soon thank you Mr Sears thank you council president um I will also echo councilwoman's valz on the Ambulance Corp uh dinner and the uh tremendous amount of new members there are receiving I'm sure they went through a lot of training and there's still more training to happen uh the fire department uh great event great offices and uh it was a a a pleasure to be there uh I'm going to start my report out tonight I met with Dr maau at Monclair State University um if you remember a couple years ago they did our um uh in inventory um uh evaluation for the town um I met with them and we sat down and our plan this year is they're going to give me three uh graduate student and they're going to do a complete water study throughout the township they're going to look at our stor storm water our Lakes our streams and then they'll accumulate a report and bring it to the council um that is no charge to us um so uh I will keep the council informed as we go forward uh then I attended a meeting down in Ruckers University on the new New Jersey state data for uh which is 20123 uh 2022 they came up with a seven uh app um environmental study which I which I'm going to show possibly next week um it actually explains um how we are losing our tree canopy our heat inventory our flood waters um so it's a three Web Bar training and I do have a meeting with Mrs shell down in Ruckers to uh see what else we can draw from that I'm s using this um environmental data that that rocker is supporting we we could use it towards our D requirements and any forms that we have to fill out so I will definitely share that with with the group I also attended a uh seminar on Veterans nature Grant it's from a group called nf.org um they are offering from $5,000 to $10,000 to come up with um activ ities for veterans to get out into the parks uh the b ball that Dr Casio brought up uh the money is to be used to bring veterans get them out of the house to get into more of the environment so uh I am uh getting more information on that I I'd like to share I'll share it with the mayor and and the grant writer also uh Council woman valz was speaking about our health day uh we will be part of the 5K run again um it was a big success we had a lot of um vendors come down this year we're going to consolidate the uh the health fair closer to the runners so we can get a a bigger bang out of the whole process that we're going on that day also councilwoman valz talked about the veterans banners uh just noticed that uh pamas put something in the news and if you if you go down Hillsdale you'll see the the pictures of the veterans on the polls so we are in a process of finishing up um most of the paperwork yes uh and we need to get some brackets installed and uh we going to push to try and get it done for Memorial Day where would they Beall Mr well there's 80 polls I I counted the polls that we can use we're going to start at town hall and then do uh one veteran North one veteran South down pasac Road you know and then when we reach that point if we get more then we'll go um um East down Washington and East down Ridgewood you know so I am I'm working with the vendor and um on the production of the banners um and with the mayor and the administrator we're working on the logistics because obviously there are a lot of moving Parts with psng and and brackets and whatnot so we're working on that angle and Mr Sears with BFW is um working so most of the the VFW members in support of it we just got to get their pitches or the service pctures that's what we're trying to U draw so we want their service pitches up there um also um the green team we're going to be posting our projects for 2024 I'll have that on the um on the web page uh got a tremendous amount of people calling to be volunteers on the team which I'm kind of excited about because we went from 3 to 4 to 20 that wanted join to do things so I just hope we get enough projects well the 5K in healthare yeah I we could definitely use a whole bunch there um and just bear with me one second under VA news if I may just take one second um the veterans administrat um is providing a Homebase uh VA care uh you would call into a 800 number and you would talk to either an ER physician or a nurse partic participant um it's going to be virtual and what they'll do is they'll set up a zoom meeting and you will talk to the doctor or the nurse and they will either prescribe you information and send it to the local pharmacy of your choice this is something new that they're coming out with but you still have the opportunity to go to um Urgent Care three times a year that the VA will pay for and they will also pay for any prescriptions that the urgent care wres but you must be in the VA system you must have a VA medical card which is kind of important because you won't be able to get their service okay so that's the last on the VA news and that is my report council president thank you Mr thank if I if I'm sorry can I just add one thing to our joint report here um a big thank you to Laura riffkin at the library Henry Heather Henry um they've organized a lot of resources for this project on the veteran banners um so thank you so much for them putting it all together and helping us along the way as well as you know the mayor and administrator for doing you know running around and doing the uh the logistical part of itman you question thank you I just had a question to Mr Sears in terms of the uh group that are going to be re recognized initially with the Banners are they you mentioned the VFW is it only members of the VFW war no well we the criteria that we we have a temporary criteria that it will be VFW members out of Washington Township the honor board members and then if uh if a son is in town and his father lived in town and he was a BFW member then he would be onon it too they would have to supply the pictures and and proof that he was but that that's the criteria we have working right now okay any other questions stman your report um certainly so thank you Mr Des uh first I wanted to congratulate uh councilwoman VES I noted on her councilwoman uh uh Facebook page excuse me that uh she recently was appointed to the Executive Board of the Bergen County women's Republican Club so congratulations uh I think it can only help uh as we attempt to navigate uh and have uh deeper ties with uh other uh communities within uh Bergen County um thank you quite welcome uh the only other comment I have is uh just a comment to Mr Excuse me mayor kalamari uh about a again a social media post uh and really my only comment is um that at the reorg the one position uh there was one position the Chief Financial Officer um which uh was initially not appointed and you know it resulted in a bit of a uh a response from the mayor uh in terms of uh for a lack of a better term lack of commu uh lack of uh communication and lack of uh wanting to basically put a roadblock in terms of moving forward uh the administrator offered to do certain things and was told not to do them uh and all I would say is that it is the advice and consent of council uh and if Council does not consents and you're more than welcome to disagree with the reasons you may not understand them you may disagree with them uh I I do understand that but at the end of the day it is a position that requires the consent and if the consent isn't granted uh which I believe you thought was uh a nonstarter you know there was no plan B Plan B was to basically stop the meeting stop any uh Financial discussions because uh he was not reappointed and I think it shows a lack of planning uh and also some huis on his part that it would happen so uh that would be my only comment that you know it is uh the consent of council the council didn't consent initially and you know there has to be or there should have been a plan B and there wasn't uh the plan B was to basically stop all Financial discussions and I feel that that is uh not the way to move forward and you know there's uh certainly uh should not feel that he has uh the votes to do something when he may not uh I didn't receive a call from him to discuss any of those appointments uh which he does certainly does not have to do uh but you know perhaps uh he would have uh had an understanding of my opposition to the uh appointment so that would be my only comment thank you Mr Casco thank you council president now if you're at home stop watching the program here and go down to the high school and watch westw wrestling because we are in the sectionals today okay at 7:00 and if I wasn't I didn't have to be here today I would be sitting there right now enjoying that and on that note um I do want to recognize uh something today with westw wrestling I'd like to acknowledge the impressive achievement Westwood Regional High School did by placing third in the uh Bergen County coaches association Christmas tournament in wrestling is worth noting that westw place third behind the reowned Parochial School St Joe's and paramis Catholic making the highest public uh highest ranking public school which means they're first which is fantastic um I would like to commend the following uh athletes Tommy uh kulis at 157 and Galvin Cider at 175 for the third third place finishes as well as Aiden Dugan at 190 pounds for his fourth place finish additionally congratulations to sorry k no problem far alone Victor E at 120 and Dante Downey at 285 for the Seventh Place finishes and again I'm extremely proud of them it's fantastic think of 43 schools in the tournament they achiev first place for nonparochial that's incredible which is really good congratulations and if anyone wants to text me an update on how they're doing right now I greatly appreciate that because I'm interested um on on the next note uh I would like to respond to Mayor kar's statements that were published in the PC Press newspaper I'm here to counter claim that our campaign was not entirely truthful when we promised a 10% tax reduction however I want to clarify that we are willing to explore all potential areas for that 10% reduction it is understandable that Mr Calamar is disappointed in his team's defeat in the election but he must accept reality as you know councilman the senate i vly campaigned by personally visiting almost every household for several months prior to the election enabling us to come up with their concerns and understand them it is clear that the res residents of the township of Washington have reached a point where they can no longer bear the burden of continuously Rising taxes imposed on them by their local government the situation has become unbearable for the people and it's evident that the government cannot fulfill every need nor should they have or nor should the government have unlimited access to the people's hard-earned money it is true that there's no fine print or disclaimer specifying our 10% Municipal tax reduction in the first year as Mr already mentioned however it is crucial to emphasize that this reduction is our objective the mayor holds the power to propose any tax increase or tax increase as well adjust salaries within the budget I believe in not restricting him from making those decisions what is incorrect though is the claim that salaries are completely excluded from consideration we permitted the retention of the CFO so that Administration could ensure properly uh And Timely payments to the employees in January and would not delay their payment until the budget was approved we are giving the mayor a chance to independently reduce Township's Budget on his own accord nevertheless if he fails to do so as I mentioned earlier all line items including salaries and stip heads are subject to that review despite my previous statement that gradual increases it will take time to decrease it our main objective remains to decrease the municipal portion of the budget by 10% in the initial year furthermore we are optimistic about maintaining and further reducing in the following years the council's approval of the budget is a critical step in financial Municipal management it serves as a check and balance system ensuring that allocations of fund funds align with the needs and priorities of the community however the responsibility of wise responsibility of wise spending lies exclusively with the administration particularly with the mayor similarly similarly to how an allowance is managed in the household and those decisions and how to allocate those funds furthermore the mayor must also be accountable for each department spending and their decisions to do so it is imperative that our local government adopt fiscally conservative approach a path that has unfortunately been neglected by the current Administration and the constituents are well aware of the fact the voice of the township presidents were not only heard but echoed on Election Day the lack of trust of the card administration's handling of the township taxes and the dollars we uh invest are evident in the community if the mayor is unwilling or un aable to do so the majority of this Council will respond and make those choices we are providing the mayor with an opportunity to independently reduce the Township's Budget on his own accord witnessing the mayor's behavior in the past towards councilwoman Morgan and his overall conduct on the de when faced with scrutiny it becomes evident that his complaints stem from a sense of entitlement and immaturity it is clear that he's unable to accept outcomes of Elections and is unwilling to support any decisions that does not align with his own [Applause] agenda again it is the council's principal goal to make the township affordable for all that res uh res reside here and maintain its character that is unique now on a personal to those individuals who have resorted to sending my wife and myself blackmail and extortion letters and attempt to discarge me from running and pursuing elected office in the last two election Cycles I want to make it abundantly clear your efforts to intimidate intimidate me have failed and did not Prevail I refuse to be swayed or or deterred by such cowardly acts I promptly reported these letters to the proper authorities and they are being addressed accordingly I am more determined than ever to serve this community for the betterment of it your actions will not silence me on the de or persuade me with my commitment to serve the public I will not all I will not allow fear and intimidation to undermine the principles of good citizenship which are side is built upon nor influence my decision on the days that concludes my report thank you Mr Casio I have a quick report tonight I just want to thank the ambulance uh Ambulance Corp and the fire department for the invite to the dinner and the congratulations to all the new members for the Ambulance Corp I apologize I could not make the dinner I had a basketball game from my son I attended the fire department dinner congratulations to the outgoing Chief and the new incoming uh Department um congratulations to former Chief Skinner for his retirement and congratulations to the new Chief Kari um on two quick notes I am not the one that instituted the the agenda item to come to council president it was a policy that was here before me and it's still here I have never to this date vetoed any item with this Council on that right everybody's request was put on there it was never vetoed and not put on there so to make that statement I have not vetoed any agenda item for this Council since I've taken office in this term um that's all I have for tonight thank you everyone we're going to have a presentation of the tax reassessment revaluation by Miss Sarah holig the tax assessor via Zoom council president do you mind if I just set up the conversation for her real quick yes please okay Miss holig thank you very much I'm sure we're all appreciative that you're here to discuss uh the possibility of tax revaluations for 24 uh for the new council members the subject was brought up probably at the end of 22 beginning of 23 about the possibility of conducting Rev V in 23 uh there was couple of conversations throughout the year and it was mostly decided to bring it to the council in 20124 um it has been miss H Big's recommendation since the beginning uh that it's in our best interest to make sure we do it uh before the county dictates us to do it because it will save us uh a lot of money and I don't want to steal her fund on that um so in preparation of requesting uh these funds in the budget for 2024 I turn over to missig thank you thank you Mark good evening council president thank you um Sarah hbig Township of Washington tax assessor um as you may be aware the last revaluation in town was in 2014 um since then Market changes has occurred I mean we've seen UPS we've seen Downs right now we're pretty up um the assessment to sale ratio right now we're down to 73.33% um that's a study that's done each year and published by the division of taxation to let each municipality know where their assessments are compared to the homes that are selling within the municipality U the purpose of a reevaluation or reassessment is not to increase or decrease taxes the purpose is to appraise the values in the municipality according to its true and fair market value uh it will help spread the tax burden equitably within the municipality according to the market value um when so many years go by you may have identical properties that should be assessed the same but are paying different in taxes due to um maybe fat past tax appeals where they see a judgment and a reduction of assessment U so really the point is to really bring everyone up to the fair market value and to equally spread that tax burden among the taxpayers there are a couple different options that we could do um there's the revaluation which is the most expensive option it's given to a a firm an outside firm to 100% value you would have to redo the tax maps there's a lot more involved in that and you're you're really starting from scratch at the end of the day with a reassessment it is done in conjunction with my with myself to uh formulate the values in town will utilize existing data and there's an option one that takes that option of a reassessment and then it has like a maintenance I call it a maintenance program with it so year one we do 100% inspections as well as valuation and then years two through five it's a lot less of a cost and only a percentage will be inspected but everyone will still be reassessed and we're able to really capture the changes of the market um that may change throughout the years rather than letting so much time go by and then having to Fork out that large amount of money to conduct another reval or reassessment um as I mentioned there is a possibility of being ordered to perform a reevaluation uh we are part of the list of multiple towns that are being discussed between the county and the state um of a possible revaluation which again the Val is that most expensive um option where we got to pay an outside firm in addition to having the tax maps of redone which could be upward of an additional $100,000 or so um did anyone have any questions yeah as far as the process or go ahead L you you you're trying to go ahead so uh hello there's um councilman man uh thank thanks for coming this evening uh I I have the memo from November 21st of 2022 um and I guess uh you've just given us the percentage for I guess 2024 the 73.33% concept uh or anything in the last 15 months that would change uh the presentation that you did in that uh memo yeah I would add the 2024 on there to to note the new understood okay yeah that would be my only change okay so I guess the one question I have or one of the questions I have is the complete reassessment which is the second one that was discussed okay uh has a cost and I realized this is a a point in time uh estimated at 265 correct then there is a complete reassessment with a four-year uh the maintenance program right and that reassessment was 230 in the first year and I guess my question is what's the difference in the two aren't we doing a full reassessment in both and should they be the same amount and then the maintenance is a quarter of that going forward so from what I understand the the reason of the the first year difference is because you're locking into a five-year contract first year being 100% you're paying a 230 and then the following the following years two through four is a reduced cost of 60,000 a year okay is that is that just a financing cost because the work would already be completed in year one right so the or is that like you're going to still be assessing in years two three and four correct so the first year is always a lot more work because you you have to inspect every single property okay then the maintenance years you're only inspecting a quarter of the properties but everyone's still getting assessed but we're looking at the market data for each year it's just less leg work through those two years two through four uh two through five so so assessments would still be changing in years two through five correct everyone they all wouldn't they all change in year one when the whole assessment is done or no they w't change or only 20% would change in that year so to take a step so the year one everyone everyone's assessment will change everyone will be inspected okay inside and out that's the inside and outside exactly okay years two through five only a quarter are going to get inspected but everyone is going to get reassessed based upon the market so it's just one you're not being reassessed with the market you're just being no no that's not if you're missing would that be year like if if you added on a bathroom and it didn't get captured like that kind of stuff would happen in year one but you reassess no so year one everybody gets reassessed everyone's going to get a new value everyone's going to get inspected years two through five the percentage only um is against of who's getting in expected but everyone's still getting valued assessed based upon the market you would have a second inspection that one so everybody would have one inspection in year one correct and then the next four years 25% of the town would be reassessed a second time is what you're saying so some come back in your house again exactly so within the course of that cycle that five-year contract you're gonna have two visits at the end of the day okay that explains sorry about that question yes Mr Sears has a question M all right uh Sarah hi u a question um naturally you hear this all the time I'm not going to allow the person in my house I don't want him in there now the evaluation of that would be at a higher rate and estimate on what's inside the house right so if we do not gain entry into the property we will require we will estimate at The Highest Potential value meaning your we're going to make the assumption that your kitchen is renovated your bath is renov ated if you have an attic or basement those are finished as well so we do assume make the assumptions that items have been updated if we don't get inside of course if they call us down the road to get in that'll get rectified now I recall the last time we did this um there were several members of that evaluation group in town hall where you could go and talk to them about it will that be the same procedure correct so at the end of the process the company will send out what's called a value letter and it'll give the owner their old assessment and their new assessment and the opportunity to meet one-on-one with a representative to review the information answer any questions go over sales data and if we didn't get in at that time we can also set up an inspection thank you thank you Miss I'm sorry hi Sarah it's Council um for the re-evaluation the first one um do you have an estimated cost for what the the tax map would be I don't have the tax map estimated cost um I do know just speaking you know through other towns I've heard upwards of 100,000 um it's depending on how much work would have to be done with it um we should probably we can try to get a quote I know once before when I try to get one it was kind of difficult for them to give me a straight answer but I can certainly try to follow up just to give an idea yeah just curious as to what the total cost for re-evaluation would be yeah yeah okay and what would be the deadline let's say we decide on one of these option when would something like this start taking place ideally you would we would have to if we decide yes we're going to go with whatever option we would need to put it out for bid um of course to find the company to perform the vial reassessment it does take some time I would say we kind of want to get the ball rolling by April the only reason being is just so we give if we decide to do it this year and put it on for the 2025 tax year we want to give ample time to complete inspections and meet with homeowners um when the values are established okay so we wouldn't have to wait till April it wouldn't take one year you don't think to do every home once in order by December of 2025 absolutely 2025 correct yeah that would be a full time well and how long does this usually take to regardless of which event um option so regardless of the option um letters usually go out to Property Owners around around November like end of November December beginning of December um it's since values are based upon October first of the pre-tax year they can't really go out sooner to then because you're still analyzing the data so if we did it for 2025 tax year it's bced upon the market as of October 1st of 2024 okay Mike you had another question yes um it talks about the the reassessment would also give the opportunity to update applicable tax records to reflect work that was done without permits so I I understand doing an evaluation and noting that someone has a new kitchen or a newer kitchen or a newer bathroom but how does how did you envision or how do you envision that taking place is the is there work with the building department is there record shared and uh you know what that what is that process so it it's two separate things um it will definitely capture items that permits weren't pulled for um just by going out with the existing data if you go with the reassessment option you would see that the record card let's just say for example has two old bathrooms they go in it's completely modern we're going to assess them for what we see regardless if a permit was pulled for that or not in conjunction with that I do keep record of all the permits and cosos received by the building department and I would share that data as they're out there as well to make sure they're you know looking for those items in conjunction and what what is your opinion on the best approach of which option of the three yes I would suggest the last option with the maintenance program um especially way the the market is now you're not quite sure where it's going to go um I think it' be best to capture it as it as it occurs rather than wait another 10 years and have to Fork out the extra money um you know to start the process all over again and waiting for that ratio to drop and is there any opportunity uh so year one is a full and then two through five is a quarter could we do two through six and do 20% or does I've seen yes you that I'm sure that could be an option yes I've seen towns do that would that be more beneficial since we're getting more years of things being reassessed and in you know as a a follow-up yearly assessment versus doing it over four right I mean I I I don't know would it defer our cost are we just adding two more years of a $60,000 cost to that yeah I'm not I'm not sure how it break down as cost of whether um how it would work out with the number with that I would assume pretty close to where it is just spread out a little you know more throughout the years I think either version I mean I know it's just a year but if it does help with cost wise that would be something to look into could we bid it both way have you seen towns bid it both ways and then make a decision after the bid or is that not common you could you could proba we would have to U maybe I want to double check with Ken I don't know if that negates anything if you put something out to bid and then change it I'm not quite sure no no I'm saying put it out with both options and okay yeah I I I don't see why why not you know that's something that we're looking for we could put a clause on either option whether like you mentioned makebe it a six-year contract now one of one of the things you said before M was that whether we do the assessments or not it's not a guarantee that taxes are going to go up or down right because it's not a tax-driven program the purpose is to set the assessments at the market value um the budget is the budget at the end of the day I mean this isn't to raise money for a town as you know it's really just to set the values at market value um and of course the tax rate will change according to that I always compare it to a sea if the Aggregates in increase your tax rate will go down because you at the end of the day you're still collecting how much you need to run the town it's just how do you get there what so the tax rate may go down but your physical taxes aren't going to go down from the reassessment there's no way to know that's that's information that I wouldn't know until we're coming near the end of the project okay um just seeing in other towns and typically you see a third goes up a third goes down and a third stays about the same um it may be more in each um allocation but you know there are some people that do go down as well thank you you're welcome any other questions from this public um just one question so I you say that we're on a potentially on the list of through the county um or through the state I'm sorry when do we have what's the deadline to make that decision in other words be like for us to make a decision before somebody else comes in right so I'm hoping to find out um this week I'm hoping I believe at the next County meeting which is this Wednesday I believe they're going to announce Which towns um will indeed be ordered to have the reevaluation um so I I I can will certainly follow up as to what I hear from that meeting so if if we are ordered and we're in the process of Mr Dar Carla preparing a bid set to to go out the bid that would satisfy the order correct so what I do I do know would that then be done by the county and we're out of it and then we have to deal with whatever the county does right so there is an opportunity to have it switched to from a Ral to a reassessment if it was ordered um you know I would write a letter to the county um indicating reasons why you know we we feel that a reassessment would be proper I've seen it happen with other municipalities where they were ordered as a reval and had and were able to switch it to a reassessment so that is something that could still occur if we get ordered when you're done but I guess I guess if at the meeting if it was brought up can you just tell them that we're discussing this right now oh yeah absolutely Council and that we're just being brought speed absolutely yep yes Mr s it's Mark if the county does mandate it what year is it mandated for right so they mandate if if we get mandated it would be effective for the 2026 tax year so the work would have to be done during the TW during 2025 the reason why they give you that extra time is because that initial order is for a reval and that's to get your Maps completed and approved by the state prior to starting the revaluation because the reval is probably got another like you said between 50 and $100,000 price tag if we are ordered so we're going to increase these cost by 50 to $100,000 by the tax M right Sarah I have one quick question sure um regarding the time frame so if we do the one-time evaluation um how much time usually we went 10 years without doing another one do we get another 10 years without doing anything and the second part of that question is if we do the one where we do the 230 and the payment it's over uh four years would it end after that four years would it have to go out for another one or we can just hold off until that number goes down to threshold of what have you said 77% right so if you did the either either the options a oneandone rebout or reassessment um it it really it it's not necessarily of time wise of every 10 years of criteria it's it's more looking at that ratio when it drops or increases to over 100% so you want to be at 100% at the end of the day or as close as possible once you getting to 85% and below that you're really um denoting a lack of uniformity within the assessments uh so it's really until that ratio begins to drop again is when we would need to do another one um for if we decide to do the other option as you mentioned uh where it's uh the percentage for years two through five you can actually renew the cycle so let's say we finished a cycle it's year five and we decide to continue on we can just keep doing 20% or 25% every year so that's an option or we can just stop I'm sorry um so usually the the magic number is it appears to be about 80% is what they're looking at or 80 yeah right so that's that's one of the big factors is going to be the ratio um and the the coefficient is what so it almost took 20 well took one two three four five six seven eight nine nine years really to to bring that to 80% right which is pretty good so with the 800 pound gorilla in the room of all the development that's on the books for Township up on the Hills which is going to bring a lot of new ratables unfortunately that you know are good and bad in their own light um would it make more sense to do the multi-year options so when those ratables if they ever come hopefully they don't but when they do um we could attack that assessment and bring you know our our our tax base would go up because of all those new ratables so it would have an effect on our tax bill so that to me seems like a better rather than doing the one-year thing without those ratables you know because in the next four or five years depending on the economy those ratables are probably going to get built and when they do that's going to have an impact to our our rate table base because we're going to have more so would it make more sense to go to multi-year do when those ratables do come up that would be included in the 25% so therefore we capture that versus than not capturing it that makes sense right yeah I know I think it' be You' be able to capture at 100% market value opposed to right now we're at 70 3% um so yeah multi- effect is probably a better deal for us since we have that on the table I agree I ask I just have two more Qui questions hopefully the first question is uh in the memo you talk about uh appeals being not defendable um I guess if the ratio reaches a certain level um have we reached that point yet you know we're lucky enough to not um be inundated by appeals um I do put that in there just to make anyone aware if God forbid a you know multi-million dollar appeal comes in what happens I put that example of um you're no longer if it's assessed at a at a million dollars you're no longer defending a million you got to equalize it you're really defending it at the ratio so the example youti the 2023 ratio 77.9 4 you're really trying to defend a number of 1, 283,000 um opposed to what the assessment is and if you can't defend that they you apply the ratio and you just showed an example what that type of um refund could be uh you know we're fortunate enough to not have many appeals in in the municipality okay and the last question I think I have both we is uh we share a school system with Westwood and there is always a uh question of the funding of the school system and the ratio of uh what the township contributes versus what Westwood contributes uh I don't know if this is within your scope but uh could you comment on that if we were to do the reval and I'm assuming our uh we would be uh an increase in our overall uh assess value uh in total would that help us in uh our contribution to running schools so what I can tell you is part of that formula which I don't know the whole part of that but what I can speak to is this the formula utilizes the the equalized values okay so the the state has the director's ratio regardless if you're doing a reval or reassessment or not that ratio is applied to your assessments your assessed values and that is your your true value so regardless of doing one you're still getting equalized to what the true value is with that ratio um I can say that if you're doing a reassessment or reval that starting number your assessments are closer to the to those True Values when equalized um you know I don't know the other part of the formulas of the In-N-Outs of the pupils and how that's allocated to each municipality that's definitely that's out of my scope but like I said what I can speak to is that that assessment those that that aggregate will be closer to True Value um when equalized by the state thank you very much you're welcome any other questions um I just have one more so looking at the 85% indicates non-compliance so I know this numbers provided by the county where are they getting that 85 is non-compliant that's coming from the division of taxation as well so they're the typically once you start staing that 85% that's when you start to see a lack of uniformity um and non-compliant of being at that 100% True Value is that just Bergen County or is that a state that's a state Statewide okay thank you you're welcome any other questions anyone else on the desk Mr Mayor thank you car no sir thank you thank you Miss H thank you sh thank you thank you have a good evening we have another presentation Mr dalala from coflin the senior consultant for the difference C she is also on Zoom yes uh very quickly before I I get to miss Coughlin would it be an appropriate time to ask the council for the for a direction as far as um preparing for the budget I I my my my uh recommendation and I don't know what the rest of the council is for the final option the complete reassessment followed by four year possibly a six-year reassessment if we could bid it both ways with a four and a six-year option I don't know what everybody else thinks because I think that will capture the true real sale prices of if those homes do get built rather than doing the big the big thing right now and then not capturing that and putting in C rles I don't know what everybody else is thinking Mr Alman I mean I would say I would tend to agree with you uh if we don't have to do the full revaluation where we're you know spending poti $100,000 for tax maps which I don't really know if they really benefit us uh so the complete reassessment and the ongoing one would seem to be best M um I tend to to agree that a maintenance right maintenance is always cheaper than a redo um but I don't know if I was is catching your drift councilman Casio that if we've gone nine years before we dropped to non-compliance if we divide that I didn't do the math if we divide that then we're not doing too bad per year not at all but you know again you have a $500,000 reval with $100,000,000 tax Ms year one so you're in for 600 versus the cost would be 230 the first year and 6 or something every other year so it does spread it does spread the hurt it does it does and and it does pick it does pick up the potential of new construction new construction a lot of new construction so you know you're talking 75 new homes in one another 30 in another and so forth it starts to add up very quickly to a lot of new ratables but are those are going to come on online once they're occupied you're still going to get rate you're still going to be able to rate them yeah but it'd be nicer to have them included right into the reassessment this way it affects everybody's reassessment and it brings it all down because the denominator is changing because you have a more tax base and and to your question or your comment council president the 60,000 um the the re sorry the maintenance one um everybody in the whole town after the five years will then have two assessments every single person rather than one right now and then living with that for the next 10 years 10 years so I would I would lean that way as well to the maintenance program to complete one and do a four to six year assessment plan serious yeah I can see the logic of going four to six um especially with not knowing what vivano is going to build and not build or or it's not vivano anymore whatever it yeah whatever it's it's going you know I kind of lean that way that's probably the best way for the town to go you know four to six spreading the hurt yes well when when a um when a new property gets built in a non-assessment year who assesses it the TA I assume our tax assessor does it right individually so you know you talk about um you know assessing these new homes that are coming online the units of vivana or whever they may be um that would be part of our our package anyway right that's part of the job so you're you're still capturing a second full assessment during those years right I understand that so it would change your it could possibly change your your assessment because you have all that new construction going in wait rather than waiting 10 years to have that catch up to it because she's only assessing those houses it's not going to affect you correct yes you're right can we ask uh Mr PA from yeah yeah yeah I was going to say that um uh the new houses really don't really enter into it because they get assessed when the co is issued or they can be partially assessed during construction although they usually do it when the co is issued so there there's a full uh you know uh assessment of that particular property when it comes online irrespective of um you know the process I do think it's so the better choice is is to do that thing with the fiveyear or six year uh approach but but I I wouldn't worry about new construction because new construction is picked up by the assessor when it when it's when it comes online so from a from a litigation or a tax appeal perspective having the most current assessments is the easiest to defend I'm assume yes absolutely yeah yeah you can see that any other question Mr Mary did you have a preference no I I agree with the council and what uh Sarah is saying so go with the complete reassessment followed by yearly assessment of four six year than for The Bu thank you any other thing on tax assessment before we move on to the so Mr Dar Carlo the uh the avenue to proceed is I guess the complete reassessment followed by a 4-year or six-year assessment would you know if we could bid it both ways and then we'll accept the pricing wor you know when this Hing Rie it yes sir thank you thank you for Progress I'll make sure that uh Sarah has this information so she does go to the meeting she can present the council's decision and I'll also you know ask to see if she can update the numbers a little bit they're about a year old hopefully they hav't changed here hopefully they got got better and thank you I'll uh introduce Emily Claflin uh she's on the phone I want to give a big thank you she's in the middle of uh traveling so she is in the car hopefully that doesn't uh prevent her from being able to uh have good communication with us but welcome Emily thank you Emily Coughlin is from the difference card um she probably wants to kill me at this point because we've been at this for about a year um we've really done a lot of leg work and um this is our best option uh that we are aware of for combat add the continued increase of the state health benefits plan and Emily Emily you're still on she's m I'm here y okay thank you um Council Emily Council was given your most recent slide presentation that you provided to the mayor and I uh the May and me it's that fourpoint presentation um and this evening we are are putting forth uh the resolution uh with the new language required as you remember we did pass the resolution back in November with the previous Council however this Council has uh two new members that we were trying to catch up to speed on what the program's about uh I did inform them that um there was new language required by the state health benefits plan themselves and uh I did the best I told them it's a very easy concept to understand but kind of hard to explain it some times and I know the biggest question you'll probably get so I'll just pull it right out right now is um the paragraph where it speaks about um will fund the township will fund an HRA account for each employee regardless of their level of coverage single member spouse parent child or family with the $1 15, $120 per year I found that the most difficult component of this try and explain uh if you could just keep that in your mind as you're going through anything that you want to say and then also um thank you for making yourself available for the council to ask uh their questions sure sounds good so I'll just quickly Backtrack on uh how we got to this point so the difference card is or thirdparty administrator our goal as an organization is to help create the most costeffective healthc care plan available and we began working with other municipalities and townships about this time last year um within the New Jersey state health benefits plan and what we found is that within the New Jersey uh State Health Benefit Plan when you buy down to plan offerings that have higher co-payments higher deductibles a higher max out of pocket there's a very large decrement or discount that is provided um about 20 to 25% compared to the cost of the premiums for the direct 10 and the direct 15 plan options that most of your employees are enrolled in today what we've done for many other townships at this point and what we hope to do with Washington is move everyone that's enrolled in the medical benefit plan to the direct 2035 option that would provide about 25% savings which we would then use a portion of the savings that we're achieving on the premium side within the state to fund this thirdparty vehicle or third party administrator that is the difference card we have worked directly with the state to figure out best guidelines or or you know structure this in in a way that will be approved by the state and we've gone back and forth with them for months the latest uh change that the state made was back in November early December where they stated that they will approve this option or this strategy under two conditions one is that we must fund this difference card to cover 100% of all in Network Services for an individual NF family um so that is one of the biggest change that changes that we made back in November originally when we had rolled this out to many townships and municipalities it was that we had to keep benefits equal to what they were today or were previously I should say with the direct 10 or direct 15 plan options and now we must have to make the benefit essentially free uh for all employees so it's it's truly a win-win for all the employees because not only are they getting a reduction in their premium because their premiums will still be based off chapter 78 they will now have this difference card MasterCard that's going to cover everything out of pocket for in network uh for both a single and a family one number that will probably jump out to all of you is that it states that we have to fund every employee $1 15,120 that is what the state has to have written out however that might not ever happen or will not ever happen happen if you're enrolled as a single because there's a much lower maximum out of pocket but the state guidelines state that we must have in writing that there is $15,000 1220 15,120 available for each employee to cover that out of pocket uh but again we expect it our team of Underwriters and actuaries expect it to be much much less than that and which would then provide savings to both you and all employees on the plan Emily are we are our employees still going to continue to be in the Blue Cross Blue Shield Horizon Health benefits plan from the state that that's correct yes so there's no change to the insurance carrier other than moving other than moving from direct 10 to direct 20 yep so the only change an employees going to experience is that they're going to be asked for a different amount of money when they go in for a doctor's office or when they're picking up a prescription at the pharmacy they'll then have this difference card which is a MasterCard credit card and it's going to be pre program to work for set dollar amounts to cover 100% of their out of pocket so for example today they go in if they're on the direct 10 plan right they go into a primary care doctor they show them their insurance card they're asked for a $10 co-pay on the new plan they would be asked for a $20 co-payment but they would have this difference card to cover that full $20 co-pay and they would then pay zero at time of service now what happens to the remaining balance on the difference card if they do not use it so if they do not use it so let's say you have an employee that has no medical um Services throughout the plan year they don't pick up any prescriptions that money stays with the township so it does not roll over year to year it's almost like a promise to pay the funds are always there for you should you have medical services throughout the plan year if you do not an employee doesn't get this money um the card is programmed to work at the correct places so it only knows to recognize eligible expenses so if a member tries to swipe the card at a gas station to pay for guests we're going out to dinner it's going it's not going to work it's only going to work at a doctor's office a hospital or a pharmacy so can you buy other things than prescribe drugs with this card can you go buy Tylenol like can you buy no no so saying it's only prescriptions right okay correct know like some hsas some HSA cards you got to spend them by the end of the year because it's your money techically so you can go buy like Tylenol and Advil and all that stuff and they take it but this is not the same no so it's it's the same sort of idea where it's a you know a taxfree account or you're putting money aside in free tax and using it for qualify expenses the employer is who's funding this right so the township of Washington is funding this for the employees the way that it's set up is to only cover medical services um on that are covered on the Horizon Blue Cross Shields Medical plan so if you go to CVS and you're trying to pick up a prescription your prescription is going to have an RX number or an RX bar code that's how the card will recognize it as an eligible expense if you pick up a prescription for yourself and a candy bar and try to swipe the difference card with it it's going to kick out the candy bar it will work for that prescription same thing with a Tylenol Tylenol or Advil or over the counter items those are not eligible it's going to be a prescription so it needs a prescription from a doctor in order for the difference card to recognize it as an eligible expense now is this card considered additional salary to our employees so they're going to have to get a w do they get W do they get a tax do they have to pay tax on this no nope so this is a taxfree benefit to your employees Emily I have a few questions Council cassia um so you mentioned that if the employee has uh does not exceed his $15,000 andx it goes back to the Township in a holding account or whatever it may be so correct yep so so that so the next year if they spend something we have to contribute back into that account up to 15 andx doll $15,000 xll so we expect the the maximum exposure for every employee would be 15,120 again this is not possible for many employees who are enrolled as just a single because their maximum out of pocket with the underlying medical plan with Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shields is actually half of that so what the 15,120 is reflecting is your family max out of pocket for that direct 2035 plan how it would work mechanically or logistically behind the scenes is that you would provide access to the difference card to debit a bank account when and if a service occurs so if I go to the doctor let's say tomorrow on Tuesday I swipe my difference card we are paying that transaction is being paid from the difference card bank account the following day you would receive a report uh daily weekly and monthly for all transactions that occur but the following day you would see that a debited from your bank account so we're only pulling the funds from the bank account provided if and when you have services that occur throughout the plan year that and that accounts for each each individual person correct there's one account that will be for all the employees on the plan okay so I guess my question is reconciled per employee right correct yes it gets reconciled daily weekly and monthly and you'll have all backup so you'll be able to see the spend by employee um and then the spend on a again a daily weekly and monthly basis now what happens if an employee goes to ad of network uh participant does the card still work the card still does cover out of network and again that's State guideline so it will still cover out of network but then you're kind of losing the funds that you would have to cover in network as well are the out of network maximum and the in network maximum the same or less or are they different there's two yeah that that's a great question there's two different maximum out of pockets so the 15,120 reflects the in network max out of pocket there is a separate out of network maximum if an employee goes out of network the funds in that $15,000 bucket call it are used for out of network so there's not two separate buckets of funds for in and out of network it's all integrated but what's the ma so there is no maximum out of pocket Network out a Network payment right the maximum out of pocket so so say say I decide to go to an ad of network doctor and my my cost because it's only paying I think of what 80% typically if it's out of network 40% 40% according to this Oh I thought it was 80 8020 so so if I so if I exceed 15,000 our maximum exposure for an Adder network is still a 15,120 correct or would it become whatever it is so if you went out of network yeah you're that you could use the 15,120 bucket to cover out of network expenses but if you were to and again this we don't expect this to ever happen but if you were an individual and you maxed out in network and you maxed it out of network you would still be you would still be fine it would still be covered 100% it's really if you're a family and you were to hit your max out of pocket in network as a family and max out of pocket out of network you would have exposure out of network but who who would have exposure the municipality or the employee the employee okay that's go ahead so the max the employee so if an employee says I'm going to this doctor and he's out of network and and his when he's all when he or she is all done they have a $30,000 expense right and they hand them this debit card and it says all right now you owe me 14,900 $180 because there's no other money left on his debit card correct that would be their that would be their responsibility then to pay that that's right yep but that $30,000 charge would never happen because they still have out of network benefits through Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield under the direct 2035 plan the ad of network deductible is $800 today on the direct 10 it's 00 so you have a slight increase there but again that 800 would be covered by the difference card okay a assuming that they did not exceed their 15,120 with other in Network Services right then they would it it's a 6040 split to a Max of $6,500 so again you're you still have a maximum exposure a max out of pocket for out of network the only time you would ever as an employee have any sort of out-of-pocket exposure is if you exceeded the 15,120 on the in network side and then went out of network and had an out of network Services that's the only time you would ever have an exposure as an employee I guess my my question is so there's there's a uh there's a spend on the 15120 next the next calendar year or next in insured year which is your calendar year you'd have to make sure there was 15 120 in that account for each employee correct correct it's going to reset every year and the state is going to want you to to submit for approval each and every year as well so this is for calendar year 2024 if we had a lot if we had a lot of healthy employees Michael me finish I'm sorry I thought you you so I just want to be totally clear that we keep that money and if we don't if they don't spend it it goes into the pot the next year for them and we addre okay so if you have 10 employees and we funded $151,200 right the following year we have 10 healthy employees and we spend only 30,000 of that we'd only have to make up the difference of the $330,000 pot correct correct you're only we're only taking out yeah we're only pulling your from your bank account what's actually being spent right so you're not giving employees money up front again the best way to think about it is almost like a promise to pay the funds are there if an employee has a medical claim if they go to the doctor if they're picking up a prescription but you have someone on the medical plan that never goes to the doctor all year you're not paying anything there's no exposure for that individual who is your longest who is your long you don't have to tell me the name but who is your longest client to date that's been using this plan successfully oh we have clients back to 2001 so we were founded back in 2001 uh we have over 1,200 clients nationally across the country state of New Jersey in the state of New Jersey on the municipality side we have probably around 20 we have another 20 that are looking to do this at some point uh in the calendar year of 2024 a lot of them wanted to do it for one one and it was just a timing thing a delay with the state and getting approval but we have about 20 that are that are ready to go that are working on their resolutions their moas to get this in place for 2024 have you had any anybody come into the system and leave the system because it didn't work the way it was sold we have we have not had any municipalities come in and and leave the only reason we really see members I should say clients terminate or leave the difference card is for two main reasons one they're using this as a stepping stone to go completely self-funded and they're going to eventually take on more risk themselves they're using this to really get their feet wet the second is Acquisitions so if anlo uh an employer or an organization is acquired they're typically rolled into the larger company's benefit package go ahead Emily coun Tom seers uh can this card be used overseas if uh one of our employees traveling gets hurt will will this card be accepted overseas the card would most likely not be accepted overseas the way that we and we actually have gotten this question before um I believe in some meetings we've done for for Washington the best way to handle overseas medical transactions is you want to pay out of pocket and then you want to submit it to Horizon Blue Cross with Shield when you come back because chances are when you're overseas they're not going to submit through your insurance so you're going to be paying a higher rate for that service or or whatever you know the medical benefit or medical procedure you're having done is you would then come back you would submit to Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield they would pay whatever they're going to pay they would provide you as the employee an explanation of benefits you would then submit that into the difference card and we would cover those charges um but it would first need to be submitted to your insurance carrier so just just to get clear say the bill is $220,000 they submit a $20,000 bill what would be the payout up to the 15,000 and then 5,000 would be theirs it really all is all based upon how the claim would be processed by by Horizon bluec Cross Blue Shields if Horizon bluec Cross Blue Shields process it as an in network claim then yes the highest amount of the difference card would reimburse is that 15,120 but it all really starts with Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield than Emily sorry Emily that that would be the the procedure whether someone had difference card or not correct absolutely yep yep anytime you're overseas you would be paying out of pocket for that procedure service whatever you're having done and then you would be submitting to your insurance carrier when you return unfortunately I found that out firstand on a cruise but um also I think it's important for the council to understand that 15,120 is not a difference card requirement it's it's a requirement of state health benefits plan is that accurate that is yep so in order to get written approval by the state of New Jersey that is how we have to kind of write this plan out is that to show we have a bucket of funds for every employee up to 15,120 which again reflects the maximum out of pocket for a family under the direct 2035 plan you for me yes so I have Emily count the Les um so the 15,120 for each employee that's the same for single versus family correct it's the same for single versus family but again you're never going if you're an single individual it would be impossible to spend more than 7560 which is the single maximum out of pocket for in network services so again we have to have it in writing because of the state but it would be impossible for individual to ever exceed that number that 7560 well my concern is more for the family you know if you have you know a family of six go over that 15,000 you know po no so they would never exceed the 15,120 as long as they stay in network so if they go in network the maximum that they could ever be charged under the The Horizon plan is 15,120 so that is why we're that we're choosing that number because that would cover 100% of all in network services for a family under the direct 2035 plan and the married and spouse is less than that right Emily so no so anyone in anyone enrolled so the way that the the underlying medical plan works is that your individual max out of pocket so for a single is 7560 anyone enrolled with an employee plus one whether that's one person or six people the max out of pocket is 15,120 make sure and the process for doctors that don't accept this card so if you know some doctors cash business sure yep so it's a MasterCard credit card so it's accepted anywhere that credit cards are accepted or Master cards are accepted if you go to a doctor that let's say does not take credit cards you would pay out of pocket you would take a picture of your receipt and you would simply submit it into the difference card using our mobile app or online benefits portal and we process claims in under two business days so it's a really quick reimbursement time for you to get your funds back so you're always entitled to those funds if you forgot to use your card or if your doctor does not take credit card okay and then I have just one last question um at the top of the conversation Mr Dar car you had said that this was the biggest state change in terms of verbiage um regarding the co-pay I believe so is that was that correct you had said at the say again I'm sorry that you had said the biggest change of the dis difference cards was the verbiage but I wasn't sure the verbage regarding the copay is that what it was I don't remember explaining it that way but uh there were some changes that from November to now yep yep so from November to now so before November when we were showing this um to to organizations we were trying to mimic or match the benefits for a direct 10 or 15 plan so we're basically paying the difference between the direct 10 benefit and the direct 2035 plan in late November change sorry yeah no no no it's a it's a great question um the just came back in late November early December and said in order to get approval you need to fund everything at 100% so we're we're basically now making the plan much better than we were initially proposing we were initially proposing to M to keep benefits equal to what they were with the direct 10 and direct 15 plans we are now offering essentially zero doll coverage or a zero dollar benefit to all employees that are enrolled on the medical plan okay so just estate man date yep that's correct anyone ever work with the Department of banking and insurance it's it's a nightmare how they work but um Emily I have one question for you regarding the account that we are going to uh put funds in can that that's in account that the township holds that you draw from is that correct that's correct yep okay so we can put that in an interest bearing account yeah absolutely it doesn't matter yep wonderful he going to be sitting there you're paying 15 for a f uh for everyone and you have a lot of single single employees right you still got $7,000 that can just sit there and they're interested Mr how many about how many employees would be using this difference card currently there's 30 that um enjoy the direct 10 and about five that enjoy the direct 15 so 35 okay uh ah uh so this is Council andman um on the first page of your presentation the renewal costs uh would be for direct 10 and direct 15 is that correct that's correct yep okay and is there additional uh exposure to the township for further uh expense with the 10 and the 15 the additional exposure for the direct 10 and 15 would be the premium for those plans versus the premium to the 2035 plans but the the 1076 is a defined that's that's our risk or that's our premium uh for those programs is that correct if we didn't go to the difference card yeah that's the Pro cost okay 2024 so so the revised so the revised cost really the revised fixed cost are really don't mean anything in my mind I guess my question is the total cost where did you come up with the 73490 uh that you're using as claims I'm just driving so I'm I'm not seeing what you are seeing um but the lower number where it says it should say revised fixed cost that number is made up of the new premium based on the direct uh 2035 plan and the fixed cost of the difference card and then where it says total cost that's inclusive of what we expect to happen in terms of claims or utilization so again we have over 1,200 clients nationally we have 300,000 members we have a team of underrates that come up with a claim projection to assume what we think your employees are going to spend throughout a given plan year so even though we're required to fund 525,000 which is the 1500 15,120 for the 35 we're only expecting or projecting the 73490 that's correct yeah and it's it's not a requirement to have that funded in a bank account so I just want to make that clear you don't have to show proof to the state that you have $525,000 sitting in a bank account again they just want the plan documents um or plan summaries really to state that every employee has $15,000 available but you are not required to to put that in a bank account you can fund the bank account as again as claims are are happening you see again those claims happening on a daily weekly monthly basis what we recommend and what we've recommended for all The Other M municipalities is to fund based on our expected utilization and you can always add more money or you know stop adding more money if you're seeing that claims aren't as high as what we initially proposed or expected I mean I feel that the 73490 is you know uh I understand that we're being told it's a an Actuarial uh number but our I guess our ultimate potential risk is something short of 525,000 so that 8 and a half% uh savings you know is based on 73,000 uh I guess my question is can we go to the is it an option to go to the direct 2035 and not offered the difference it would be a violation of the Collective negotiation agreement because it wouldn't be equal to or better than and I think you asked good questions because there was the same question I asked you Emily is how you came up with those numbers of the total costs and you know to take it own us off you they're certainly not in the business to losing money so they're giving us you know the claims based on what's what's the report The Experience report that we provided or so so the underwriting is based on our entire book of business and and there's all these different factors and I'm happy to share that with you if that would help and it shows you you know how many average visits we expect to a primary care doctor to a spe specialist how many deductible claims we expect and so on so I can definitely share that backup with you um one really good example is Hunan County which just implemented this a year ago so they're kind of a true poster child or focus group for this all their employees spend I think the average employee spend was just under around ,750 per employee was the average spend for the year so if you were to multiply that by the 35 employees that you have on the plan it should be roughly what we're expecting the township of Washington to spend give or take you know might be slightly off based on their average contract size that is a really good example to just look at is how hun and ran because they were they were in the exact same scenario and they moved to the direct 20 35 plan as well and Emily I think when I asked you the question I asked you if it was possible for us to get to that maximum exposure your answer would be you know essentially every employee spending a year straight in the hosp yes yes so in in order to get there this is a great example as well so in order to get there Not only would you have to have meet your deductible and Co insurance right as an individual just looking at an individual if you went in and had let's say a child so you you met your deductible you met your co- Insurance maximum the only way that you could actually get to your individual max out of pocket would be to have 268 doctor's office visits after that so you're talking about having a major medical service followed by roughly going to the doctor nearly every day for the entire year for every employee correct right and and the 160 is I'm sorry I'm tell is I don't want to say it's an estimate but there could be better Savings in that and there could be defitely and there could less savings but I mean you know cman again not to oversimplify but even if we only ended up saving this is just a just crazy just to make analogy even if we only save 50,000 we still save 50,000 so you know again I don't mean that disrespect I just mean it's it is there's definitely the opportunity for us to save um more than the 160 or less accurate Emily or yes 100% accurate so my only um my only comment to that is yes and we could actually save more I mean what if we have like the most healthy individuals you know uh you know our potential savings uh could increase by 73,000 because that's the claim M them but on the flip side uh even if we don't get to the you know the 520 which I know we can't because we don't have we have some single people in there so let's say the max the max exposure is 450,000 um that's a big difference between 73,000 and 450 and you know there's there's nothing that is guaranteed uh you know I just want to go in with my eyes open um okay uh any other questions on days I have one mic please yes Mr May hi Em it's mayor calary um for a while it took me I mean it took me a while to understand why they ask for the maximum of the 15 120 or whatever it is reach employee and then I kind of came to the realization that let's say you start the year single and then February 1st all of a sudden you have to be switched to the family plan so to me that was a reason if not the reason that they insist upon funding everyone to the max right right in there what from what I understand they needed it to be even or a Level Playing Field they didn't want two different they didn't want two different numbers for a single versus a family so they wanted to just keep everyone kind of on an even even playing field um so that's how I understand it as well thank you would this be something that uh Mr fedini I'm sorry I couldn't think of his name as our risk manager I mean is this within his scope uh to offer an opinion or does he not deal with the health insurance no it's definitely within his scope and uh he's been along for the ride the entire year and he's been there for every option um we've pursued as well as suggesting a couple options that he's been part of I don't want to speak for him but you know it's my understanding May's understanding that you know he's uh he's behind this and I think Emily it's even really taken off with the unions over the last couple months as well where any change or uncertainty is usually you know hesitant with with anybody you know understandably um and you know again it's the last communication I had with with our union members that were in sport of it um and it's it's even grown through you know a two-page advertisement in the you know the police PBA magazine so you know again I think everybody's identifying it as the best option that uh them as contributors and us as employers um to save money and the 10 and the 15 plan are they being Sunset are they no longer available no they still this is another question usually that that had come up during all our meetings Emily um they are not being Sunset but I I think our employees were concerned that if they were move to the 2035 and then the state decides they were going to get rid of one or both if they could jump back into it and Emily can you pick up on that answer they're always going to be able to move plans upon open enrollment right so should this not work for whatever reason for 20124 employees can move back to direct 10 or 15 um for the next calendar year I I can't speak to what would what would happen if the state decided to do away with those plans but from my understanding I don't I I don't foresee that ever happening Emily one last question so if I'm a single employee and I log on to my account whether it's the mobile app or my computer and Does it show the 15120 on my dashboard that a false okay so do we tell them hey you're you know it's way more than what you're going to get at this point because you're single or how does that work again it was it's just a state mandate that we have to show the 15,120 they're just never going to to be charged that based on their underlying insurance plan so yeah they're just they're never going to have that much exposure if they're enrolled as a single okay thank you any other questions on guys thank you Emily thank you general public comment period limited to five minutes um motion to open the public comment period do you have a motion so second all in favor anybody like to come up and address the council at this time Mr stle Bob stickle 191 Walmart Street um I'm glad to see that the council's moving to do this reassessment I think it's important we got to get on a fair um Fair playing field with Westwood and they use the option every year once 20% every five years or whatever that is um I think it's important um I mean it's great that we're spending a lot of time trying to cut the Municipal Taxes we'll see where that goes but you know I'm just looking the last two years my school taxes went up $669 if I had the same assessed house in Westwood they would have went down $799 W so that's that's the issue um I know Dr Cassio made a um comment that the difference in the ratables was $380 million between us and Westwood based on the um what do they call this and the tax assessor mentioned this the uh cable equalized valuations it was 163 million so it's about 380 million I think it's important especially when you're up in the day is that when we're throwing numbers around we're really looking what the true numbers are um I just looked the last three house sales in town um one house sold for uh 550,000 it's assessed at 377 even if you use the equalization it's still $33,000 more if it was at 100% another one was 70,000 another was 164,000 so I really think if we do this we will get I'm not going to say we're going to ever pay less than Westwood they have a lot more um homes than we do in town but I think it'll get um to be a little bit equal um I guess my one concern tonight is that the tax assessor does not understand the formula for the schools so when the school says we owe so much in taxes is there anybody in town who understands that formula and checks that formula I mean we've been talking about this for a year I think if my boss a town counsil here asking me about the formula I would have went and found out I mean she is a tax assessor both for Westwood and us so it shouldn't be a difficult thing to figure out but my concern is that if she doesn't understand it she's a tax assessor like we just say well Westwood says this is what we owe and this is what we pay or does someone check that formula I mean the person who's doing a formula for uh the schools resides in Wesley business administrator so seems like we gota should really be checking what we're paying but that's just my thought that's all I have to say and I I just hope we the future let the mayor speak thank have aot respect for you m but I think we need to do that you know the last president didn't and that's why she's probably watching this meeting from home tonight so I think we just all have to work together to get things and um I like your idea Council councilwoman sorry I know it's Council woman was um of making it easier to have your when you want to improve your house that'll just add to our raders absolutely you know I mean that's the simple thing I know when I did my addition I went through some things a lot of hurdles but uh that problem is now gone by appointing a new engineer so I'm glad that was done I think that new engineering firm will work better with the people in town but um you know put my project over four and a half months so that's four and a half months you didn't collect my higher taxes that's all I have to say Thank you Mr anybody else like to come up I just respond quickly yes Mr U as is no secret uh unfortunately for different reasons the school superintendent um has been switching quite frequently in the past year um but now uh Dr Mortimer is back um Mark and I raised it in an issue we had with one of the temporary one about hey can the school tell us how the formula is derived um he said he was going to do it but being temporary so let me say I hope to follow up with her very soon and try and get an answer from her people because uh I've always that's a school business administrator does that yeah but again I I have to go through the administrator I can't reach directly out to the ba no I I understood okay thank you answer Mr Mayor will have an answer for Mr stickle and the residents in the near future hopefully if they respond if they respond yes Mr Mayor would this be something that uh lerts viny as part of their audit validate and can we ask if that is something they review I mean I'm assuming uh they have um exposure to these types of questions and you know so is that something we can ask we can certainly ask yes thank you anyone else in the audience like to come up and address the council at this time Maran Osman 960 Adams uh just a few things mayor I'm very disappointed in the fact that you wrote what you wrote In The pasek Press uh I've worked under a mayor for 28 years and never did I see him under some circumstances that were bad do that publicly and I do think that that was not the right thing to do I'm not going to go into any more with that because I've gone back to I I have a habit I have a I like to keep things from politics and I've kept all of the different you know ones from your offices and I've seen many things mentioned in there that we're not 100% what you've done or what you said and and some of the things that you've never done so when you make comments like that publicly I I don't think that's the right thing to do this is a council was supposed to work together with the mayor you are the mayor and that is an important part of this town but I think what you did was it was terrible uh the one thing I'm going to say is Mrs Morgan had the same problem with you Mr desent is not the first person and you've come down here and you sat from your day as you came here this is not this is disgrace I'm sorry I do really feel that as a resident in Washington Township uh up there Mrs F when she was council president she said things to Residents she told people to go you know they didn't have to live here if they didn't like it she was nasty to people and you never said that there should have been a vote of no confidence when she was sitting up there now that Mr Des is you're asking you're saying to do that personally I don't think that's the right thing to do either the one other thing I just have to say when was uh Mrs valz you talked about the zoning board and I know it's on the agenda and you said how they go on well when I was asked to go on the board if I wanted to go on the board soone you know suggested that night maybe go on the board I was secretary to that board for 17 years and as Dr Mr Des said we were interviewed personally in front of a you know quite a few people who used to come to meetings now they don't come anymore uh and I was interviewed in each one of us that because Mr desna was one of them I was one of them and uh Mr Toro was one of them and you know then it came to a vote and it was very strange but because my political affiliation Mr Sears and Mr calary did not vote for me now after 17 years as secretary you would think that this would be the proper person to be on the board who knew more about the zoning in this town than anybody sitting up there right now I'll say I do no other than Mr per Mr par you know he wrote the zoning so he knows it but uh I just wanted to comment because you had made that comment you know at the last meeting about you know oh you have to do this and then the second time I said oh I want to go on the board again but we didn't do that anymore we wrote letters so I wrote a letter and and I'm sure miss uh wowski still has it and all of my qualifications I wasn't picked again my political and I'm a Conservative Republican who was the secretary to the Executive Board of the burg County women's Republican Club so it's it's you know seems strange to me thank you thank you Miss hman I me sure Mrs I'm sorry what seems strange to you I'm sorry can she speak you want to come back up to that the microphone please Mr I know you don't but it seems strange that you're you know all of a sudden now when it was done this way you don't think that it was the right way to do it you know maybe you should have talked to somebody to try to find out how it been done in the past you know now to have a new a whole new format again after the fact again well I can't speak to the past I can only speak to what happened currently and I did not find that correct or proper or transparent so now we can only move forward and improve ourselves I'm not you can judge when I brought it but this is when I brought it and that's how it is okay so I'm trying to work to make the process transparent and maybe we bring it back to how it used to be well it used to be transparent EX in the last four years it went away I can't speak to why that went away but here we are and let's move forward and make it positive that's the goal thank you everyone thank you m would anybody else in the audience like to come up at this time and address the council anybody in Zoom have their hands up there's a hand yes there is a hand up Mr Gs Mr get gets is yes Mr council president can you hear me yes we can Mr guts good evening okay well thank you uh good evening Fred gets one uh 587 Washington Avenue Township of Washington uh good evening Mr council president Council and Mr Mayor I wanted to take a moment to address the mayor's comments that unfortunately I heard earlier uh with regard that were directed to the council president um first in essence everything the mayor stated was deliberately misleading or flat out wrong with regard to the powers of the council president um I in full transparency was a former councilman former council president um I took it upon myself to discuss this matter in the Roberts Rules of Order and our Charter with various Scholars at Rucker University SE Hall University um the league of municipalities other attorneys um unfortunately I probably disagree with some of the um arguments of Mr poer uh who uh you know we had disagreements uh in the past with regard to the uh Roberts Rules of Order however the council president has the ultimate power in this form of government I don't think the public is aware that we have a very very unique form of government in Township it's called the fauler form e form of government and it's really akin to the federal form of government uh in fact we actually share this form of government with big cities like Newark and Camden um but most towns around us have a very different form of government usually it's the burrow form of government and in that form of government the mayor is a participant in the council meetings and collaborates with the council and that's the way things work in our form of government the mayor is an invited gu guest only in fact Mr uh former former mayor Rudy wsel used to come to the council meetings and just read the paper the whole time because the mayor's responsibility in the council meetings is to once every other council meeting read the mayor's report our form of government is really an administrator powerful form of government the administrator is the one that has to administrate to the township the mayor is there to coordinate things but the mayor is not there to participate in the council meeting it is a true council meeting the president of the council has the right to set the agendas which Mr desna has fairly allowed everyone to submit their applications for the agendas um I will say that when I was on uh the council and I was council president I I was not as fair I had to actually have the mayor removed almost uh for disrupting the council meeting because similar to Mr calamari um objecting making partisan statements denigrating the council denigrating the council president uh for no reason other than partisan politics um it's not allowed it's not welcome it's you're not being discourteous as the council president to the mayor that's your job your job is to run the council meeting the mayor is supposed to sit there and again once every other council meeting deliver his report your job is to run the council meetings maintain order and to rule on every one disagreement thank you so again I I know that Mr calamari is well aware of this I think his statements were purely partisan and they're designed to denigrate the newly elected council members the public elected and I don't think he's used to dealing with the fact that he does not have a majority on the council however the council president is in the right Mr calamari respect is in the wrong this is a council meeting Mr desna has the right to run the council meeting and maintain order and rule on any objections and any disagreements as he sees fit that's all except were the fact that I find it disgusting that this is the first time he hearing that Mr uh Dr Casio has been receiving uh letters or threats it's absolutely uncalled for in Town politics and I hope that the mayor's brother whom I find a man of much honor will'll investigate this fully to find out where those threats those letters are coming from um and that's it that's all I have to say thank you anybody else have their hand up I'd like to comment on his commentary sure Mr May hold on we just see if there's any no no go ahead Mr Mayor thank you um I appreciate your opinion as I appreciate everyone's opinion uh we disagree um tell me how I misled something when I read the responsibilities from our code as to what the council president responsibilities are and yes also uh a lot of larger municipalities use this form of government but also three right in our own backyard almost River Bale Saddlebrook and Mawa share the same form of government and believe it or not they make it work so it can work it does work and you know I wasn't around back in the 70s when it was decided that this would be the form of government for the town but it is and I deal with it as my role of Mayor as as I understand it so again um you know we can agree to disagree aree on many of your points thank you motion to close the public portion of the meeting do I have a motion so moved second Mr Ser yeah all in favor I ordinances adoption second reading none introduction first reading ordinance number 24-1 an ordinance changing the time of regular meetings of the township Council motion to introduce and pass ordinance number 24-1 at first reading by title do I have a motion so I'll move second second roll call councilman CIO yes councilman SE yes councilman Omen yes councilman bz yes council president the Senate yes resolution number 24157 authorizing publication of ordinance number 24-1 and schedule a public hearing do I have a motion second second back roll councilman cassum yes councilman Sears yes councilman omen yes Council valz yes councilman council president Des sen yes resolutions consent agenda the following items have been determined to have the unanimous consent of council and will be enacted in one motion should any item require independent independent consideration any council member may have such item removed from the consent agenda resolution number 24-58 authorized payment of bills December 29 2023 to February 1st 2024 resolution number 24159 author the appointment of EB Employee Solutions LLC doing business as the difference card for HRA services for the township of Washington not to interrupt you I'm sorry but I did want to pull one of them I'm sorry who what which ones would everybody like to pull first I don't read M 163 you want to pull 163 okay as well for me same okay any others that people like to pull uh 158 and 159 okay so we're I'm going to start reading the ones that are going to be enacted in one Mr SE is anything for you no good thank you all right so I'm going to read all the ones that are going to be enacted in one motion resolution number 24-16 authorized refund of redemption amount and premium Block 3501 lot 914 pasak road to Christian T cfc1 First Trust in the amount not to exceed $28,269 resolution number 24-16 161 authorize awarded contract for municipal advisor and continuing disclosure Services ACAA Financial Group Inc resolution number 24-1 162 authorize the Merit to execute Bergen County trust fund contract for the Municipal Park project former Washington Recreation Club phase one engineering surveying and testing block 2301 lot one and block 241 lot 1.01 AKA 464 Ridgewood Boulevard North using the amount of $ 6,111 matching Grant from the 2023 bcos trust fund resolution number 24164 authorized submission of Governor's Council on alcoholism and drug abuse GCA fiscal cycle July 2020 June 2025 for year 2025 do I have a motion some second second roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman yes Council MZ yes council president to yes Okay resolution number 24-15 58 authorized payment of bills December 29 2023 to February 1st 2024 I believe Mr Alman you had asked that to be pulled you need a motion motion do I have a motion so move second second discussion yes uh sorry I have so many piles here um so I had gone through this uh list of bills and I had uh provided some questions to the administrator and excuse me S you you gave us uh how many pages I mean the definition of s number so um I interrupt your no it's quite all right so I guess my question is what what is the process to review these because um there are some that are more informational but there are some that certainly uh I would prefer to have answered before I think you go Page by Page Mr D do you have it in front of you the bill list or uh yes I do have the bill list and I do have Mr councilman um questions I mean most of them I could probably answer you know can you respond to which ones and so my best I you don't mind yeah yeah can we do that Mr Al the caller try to present what you've asked for so uh on page one uh Boswell engineering so there were uh we're paying a vendor Boswell engineering but the descript is for engineering legal auditor and other which confused me uh well I didn't understand it so I I guess yeah understandably so last year uh with the council when we uh did our Capital ordinance for a road Improvement program in order to essentially um when we did the bond ordinance I told the council hey you know don't quote me on these numbers I'm just giving you an example you the road program is due to cost 500,000 I only need 400,000 from you because I can utilize Old Road Improvement program Capital lines so part of uh my and CFOs due diligence was going through seeing old capital lines that still had balances in it which ones can close out some we did close out and some uh the council knew that I would be utilizing uh kind of supplement our need for a higher amount of money so going back through some of these Capital lines this one specifically I think was was ordinance 1306 whoever at the time I'm imagine it's the CFO set up all these lines with all these names in it which you know I'm learning from traditionally we don't usually do that we it looks like we set up like one soft col account for multiple so here um I'm going to explain it to you that was probably just the preference of the CFO at that time or whoever is responsible back in 20133 to set it up and they they just pulled out uh certain amounts again called various roads engineer various Roads Legal various roads auditor various roads others um so the council knew how we were going to do it and also um in circumstances like this I always check with the appropriate professional whether it's the bond ordinance or um in this case Lurch Vincy and Bliss who would be our financial advisor to sure what I'm doing is is accurate legal ethical um and of course the answer was yes so the money was there as a whole to utilize towards our 2023 Ro program okay so we're not understanding that but just a direct question we're not paying an auditor no no $4,000 we're playing Boswell out of a line that says a right so okay the uh the will that close out all those lines Mr no there's still going to be some money left wow yeah yeah there's 2013 ordinance that's a 10y old yes there there was there was several like that wow uh on page two if we could go to um the bottom one not that I'm not going to follow up on the others but for brevity uh weather proofing technology the project costs so again the vendor the we're paying is weatherproofing technology I would assume the 198 is theirs I don't understand why we're paying soft cost to them so when we set up that tordin last year there was numerous projects and I think again don't quote me on the numbers I hate round numbers it was like totally 1.4 so the bond ordinance called for the creation of soft cost accounts of $140,000 which took away from the balance that we actually had approved so you know if there was five projects that were approved for 200,000 five I think it's 5% that's how we come up 140 we're taking out of each line but I still needed that full 200,000 again these are just example numbers so again checking with our bond counsel and our and our uh financial advisors it is an appropriate expense to utilize money from the soft costs to create to I guess make up the difference and the balance that I need even though be a soft cost are we paying weather proofing technology 248 then uh let me just look at the p uh we page two technolog yes and again this was a capital this was a capital expense for for the new roof um for the library we did have the same company for the township Town Hall roof so the roof of the library is complete we have a warranty on it except the manufacturer has given us full bill of health on it full sings yes so are we setting are we setting these up incorrectly or not so much incorrectly but I guess is there a better way to set them up because it leads to question questions um I don't know if there's a better way I I I know it it is the current practice and it's followed exactly um from from the bond ordinance and I you know I did bring a copy um anticipating the questions and how it was set up um but again there was there was multiple projects a percentage of it I think it's five from each is drawn out to make up the soft costs but again checking when I needed to make up the difference it was an appropriate usage from the soft cost account because it's still money that's approved in the bond ORS but I understand your question um I could certainly find out if there's a better way so I I guess a followup question to that is do we have if we're using pulling out of the soft cost line to make up a difference or a shortfall are we when the next project for that ordinance comes up are we going to not have adequate monies as long as I budgeted correctly with the ask of the council to approve the total number should be fine right so I'm only having to draw from the soft cost because the soft cost draw from what I need if that makes sense so we're never we're still not using any more money than what council approved okay for the pro okay on page three M I'm sorry page four uh the now no I'm sorry back to page three the archive social yes Miss wowski do you you'd probably be the best to explain that expense if unless want to the best that I have understood when um they approached us and I asked a lot of questions was it is basically for a social media that if an opal request comes in they will go through and they have the ability to go through the social media they have their asking their people and whatever gurus so we're paying a fee to respond to oppr requests that include social media yes archive archiving social well yeah but it's a social website it's social a lot know you know it's archiving The Township social media and indexing it for to respond to over request that's my understanding when we took it out do we know the scope of that is it just is it employee it's um Township it's Township accounts it's accounts not like individual accounts it's a town book Town Facebook page the recreation Facebook page I believe it covers the fire department Facebook page I think I think they I think they included up to five different pages at the time is that a quarterly bill or is that a yearly Bill annual so 31 3740 is an annual Bill soon have to put you on the spot but we've had this a few years it's an insurance thing obviously has anyone ever asked for anything o regarding our social media Lu yeah okay I beg to differ but we'll have that discussion at the end of the um DNL Paving yes so did we get the grant monies for this we did actually about a week ago um we approved for 159 and we received 118,000 100 so is that the 75% payment Mr I guess so yeah it's it's getting that balance that's always the tough part like you said we got we didn't get it as quickly as you had mentioned we should should get it but uh I was happy to see it came in the other day are we still holding retainage on that project because my apron did not farewell with the repain well the Project's not even done the Beach Street Project's not done the that the Beach Street well it's part of the the the 2023 Road program as a whole oh oh so it's all one that's what we're were talking about bifa them and not doing them all together in the future absolutely okay um page five the Boswell do you want me to answer page four very quickly for you the Pitney Bose machine is our postage machine we in order to save money we actually bought one so that saved us money so that that expense of 9516 um there's a meter on it and with that 9516 for us from thought that would be easy answer um maybe not are we paying Pitney bows or the postage service well we we pay for postage through Pitney bows that's how it's done oh okay yeah okay thank you and then page five pause well the first line I guess are what are they still doing at the firehouse I do not remember this one off the top of my head usually there's a project number um like a WT number let me see if it's on the page if I had to guess but it's only a guess perhaps the computer lock yeah yeah well yes yes most likely that's what it is I I'm sorry I just don't I don't without a WT number there it's a little hard because they have a couple projects um you know the original project and then the commuter lck project but most likely that's an expense with the commuter lot okay so I'm I'm just going to mark that as open we can find it yeah uh page six the fire ground Technologies um we're charging the bailout gear line or the bail out ordinance and I was just wondering what what this is is it related to the capital lot I mean it seems like I'll have to follow up on that one too you know when I read the bill list everything makes sense to me and then you know like you said it's like a 100 Pages this time but if you don't mind let me find out um some more but but again I you know when before this makes it to the bill list the purchase orders go through my hands then the mayor's hands and then the cfo's hands and sometimes it's the mayor first depending on how busy I am but absolutely with 100% certainty it does not get a signature from me unless it has the correct line and most often times in circumstances like this I was most likely involved in the expense beforehand so I know that doesn't totally answer your question it's more asking you uh to trust me the famous last words um but I just don't remember off the top of my head what that expense was for so I guess I was asking and then the followup was if it is an operational expense you know if it's a day to-day operational expense why are we charging a capital line because we're then going to be paying for it for the next 15 years or however long our um Bond yeah so it's just it compounds the expense well I understand the question and I I will get back to you I mean obviously we don't like to put we're not supposed to put non you know incidental expenses that don't have a life of at least three years on Capital you know that's and that's based off of our residents how many residents we have so we have to show at least a threeyear life on any expense that we uh put through Capital but for some reason this is just um it's escaping me what this was for okay um you know I don't understand why we're paying charging paint to the accreditation line anything that was associated with our onsite inspection that day we put through uh the accreditation line so most likely something needed to be you know touched up or whatever on the floor for the Big Deck it's a big deck so they come and it's you know it's the day where the township and the police department all the staff members show off the police department so you know that was a long of the time we got the place power washed which it needed to anyway uh had all the updated painting on the outside of the building um which helped with accreditation but it was really a maintenance thing but we had some painting of the interior walls on the police department as well um so there was there was many not many but but there was um some expenses like this that were charged because it was associated with the police creditation and the on-site inspection okay I think the others further on that asked the same question uh page six amaroso talks about um purchase and installation and we charge it to the road program yes so when we did the um Washington at intersection project there was agreements made with several um residents that I had learned and uh this specific um cost was associated with an agreement that we made with the resident the corner McKinley and Washington and that was to put in um you know I think it was four or provides or you know they weren't necessarily green Giants because they were only like 4 foot tall so it was landscape that was promised Bing the agreement that was associated with a with a road Improvement expense that's why I went through there okay uh page seven there's a charge to remove two dead Oaks and it was buil it was charged to the trust account for Amoroso so just look so I guess removing isn't a trust set up just to plant trees Mr Sears isn't that why we did that you and I yes so now we're paying to cut down trees with the trust we have um the uh fested trees that have to come down as part of the uh I know but doesn't the ordinance read that the trust is there to plant new trees I don't think it mentions anything about being used to cut down trees does it Mr P don't believe cut correct it's only to plant new trees it's top my [Music] head so we can just follow on that I I don't want to throw Mr Sears on it but I just I believe that you were um I the best way I want to say this I'm not touching I think you involved in this part so I'm not passing any blame but if you had any from your memory banks that you could contribute I'd appreciate it but otherwise I will look I will look into it further thank you all right I figured that was it I was just trying to look up the ordin here all right I will look into it get further number 12 on my list you explained already with the accreditation uh page 11 yes so I know what you're talking about here it was not a repair so um for letter A on page 11 yes so Hamill electric was contracted with to move the f is it a photo cellie the lights in the commuter lot and the lights around around the building go on and off based on the why you last not is it called a photo sell or whatever that you know I so yes so you know it was put in an area which proved to be a little dimmer and doesn't get a lot of uh sunlight so in order to save money in the long run we uh contracted with ham electric to move the photo cell to the roof so now the lights go on when they should and go off when they should okay um page 13 py Bose yes so um we why was it taken out of the animal license renewal yes again miss wowski if you can help bail me out on this one I I believe it's an postage expense associated with the animal licensing and it's in an animal trust account and it's all funded by what we collected these like from the animals and so we are able to allow to according to the auditor to take any expense like that out of there to be gra bags um printing licensing that all comes out of the trust account okay thank you um for the bot Court an easy one yes we have the money and we had to provide uh matching funds as well okay perfect is that all done up and running you're jumping the gun on my project tracker but Sor they are coming tomorrow morning to do the final install of the turf they ordered too short of now because there's two courts there so they'll be here in the morning to uh put down the turf and the check will not be released until it's been completed bring some flashlights down the first game lot of heat taken today you deserve it I mean I went through the report I mean holy ma uh page 16 uh page I'm gonna go to the dogghouse for a burger can you call me uh Home Depot they we purchased beds for the emergency service building yes um are we outfitting the mail and the female accommodations equally yes we are do we have to I don't know that I don't know if it's a legal requirement but you know it definitely makes sense that that that's what we do so this purchase of beds would have covered both yes um we bought some rear view mirrors or side view mirrors um are we replacing these due to an accident or are they being replaced other reasons I'm sorry page 15 let me just look the first line oh fire department I uh no there well I don't know specifically why but it is not the result of a motor vehicle accident okay or any type of property damage at least that I've that I I have not been made aware of so I don't know why though can we find out why they put side mirrors sure or yeah side mirors so page 18 yes I guess this is a larger question for the strategy we have a significant number of uh invoices for Le and some of those are paid out of the current account and this 6,800 is paid out of the clean community's Grant and I'm just wondering why we're not spending more if we have those funds what what's the strategy shouldn't we be if we're getting a grant shouldn't we be charging that Grant and not charging the residents for lack of you know the simplest terms so I'm going to answer this with good news and bad news the good news was um it was offset um by our budget line request last year so uh with the help of our financial advisor we figured out how much was in clean communities and our recycling tonage Grant and we offset both current lines in 2023 to account for that amount so again again I'm using rough numbers if we knew it was going to you know cost $100,000 to fund that line and we had 60,000 in Grant we asked for 40,000 to be raised through taxation and we used the grant so that will be um the same strategy for 2024 the bad news is we don't have as much grant money to put towards the need in 2024 but we certainly will so if we need 100 and I have 20 I'll ask for Aid and that will go for uh curbside pickup and uh the leaf Expos which is it's very expensive very expensive yes okay perfect twofold because we pay for the gasoline to drive the trucks down there um page 20 the elevator yes so the line item in the grant receivable excuse me in the grant writeup uh sorry the amount requested in the grant writeup isn't broken down it's it's part of a larger request do you mean the ordinance the ordinance yes okay yeah because we definitely did not receive a grant for the elevator so I guess my question is do we know if the 395 is more or less orine that's more than is required for the elevator I believe again don't hold me to it I think I asked for um 120,000 for the re remodelation or remodern of the elevator which was approved again you know these these asks are based on estimates that they give us and then of course they come in and they do the Deep dive into what's needed um and that out very rarely do we ever pay for something I don't want to say in advance but you know most companies know when they deal with government entities like ours that were not going to give them a deposit um but in this circumstance it was required to give them an upfront fee and that's where that 63,000 came in so I'm not sure if it's quite half uh could be quite half but you know that's to give the company money to pay to buy all the um material and stuff used so this specific answer to your question is 395 is more than what is needed for the elevator okay perfect uh page 20 aari and ioen iino MH they're doing work for the library renovation yes [Applause] okay and do we know how much of the 259 is being charged for architecture or engineering I gu this is architecture yeah let me just look at the uh go to the p so the ordinance 20-11 again based off my memory um allocated aund $100,000 for Library Renovations it wasn't used um until recently Laura riffkin is extremely Progressive and is getting a lot done uh for the library in the building as you can tell with the roof Renovations and such so I do not know off the top of my head The Proposal amount for the architectural Fe do you have chance I could certainly look look into that for you I just don't know off the top of my head so but we also had we also received a grant for Library improvements as well correct yeah do we have the opportunity to provide supplemental information in the Bond ordinance to break down these multi uh multi-purpose Bond ordinances where we have some backup so we can understand instead of like three broad numbers equaling 1.8 million yeah it was it was you know it's it's not that it's frustrating but you're right it is difficult because it'll say paragraph a b c and d with an Associated amount so um when I was new to the job trying to figure it out retrospectively is difficult um but now it's not because I know for the specific amounts that I asked for in um in the capital expense so again long-winded way of answering your question is I can provide you that information um I certainly uh see to the the way our bond Council writes it as you know the professional yes you I'm certainly not in a position to tell him how we should write it but another thing we do for for uh We've made a lot of changes for organization um especially with our account lines so in the past the account lines for Capital were set up based on those paragraphs you know like paragraph a 395,000 where now we make an account line for each approved expense for those capitals so again if ordinance 2308 had eight requests I set up eight accounts not three or four okay so it's much easier for organization it's much easier for keeping track of expenses and you know purchase orders and such okay thank you I think you sent a response or you forwarded an email with regard to the next line so Boswell is reviewing or they the townships Engineers on this so so you know again with the township Engineers they will get get involved you know very early on preliminarily uh especially when it's a drainage complaint as part of their retainer in this circumstances is nothing like you know water runoff onto a neighbor this is you know a complete storm water maintenance facility as part of the condo association so in the beginning when we were deal with this it fell under the retainer however once something's established um of significance that entity in this circumstance would be North Gate has to set up an escol therefore they're paying the engineer not the township residents so this is not a this is this is charged against the escrow or yes okay let me just I'm going to show you how to read it too oh yeah that that time you see an account like that it's an escrow account being charged okay 25 wait I want to so right so you'll see either a name okay or if it's if it's Boswell you're going to see a wtes or it'll say North you know it'll say the name of the customer okay um page 22 Verizon Wireless so the only provided cell phones that I'm aware of is the police department and they have four it's the chief of police the captain um the detective Bureau and one of the two lieutenants that's cell phone okay cell phone only like cell phone we have cellular data you know for the wireless computers and you know the mdts and the cars and stuff like that okay uh Hey 22 Wayne play study Boswell engineering uh he what number is it page 22 second from the bottom it's number 23 on that oh I checked it off okay I'm sorry what was the purpose of the analyst like let's see page 22 2589 oh this is you know our Consulting with the engineer as far as uh you know the whole sidewalks traffic flow change of traffic direction um it's all in response to the initial complaint that was made regarding um the lack of safety um for the parents to walk their children down Wayan place it's you know so again um under the retainer you know some expenses but then once a project grows legs um they start changing so you know again without having the invoice in front of me I don't know what this specifically was it could have been to write a report it could have been attending a meeting with us um but that's what it would be about okay uh what are we doing with the salt okay so from the county because we plow a county roads they provide us with 50 tons of salt we then obviously that's not enough we buy additional salt from the company um and the company's part of a co-op so it's the cheapest price do we buy it and is it do we fill at the county still or do we have a they don't they deliver it here so where we storing it in the storage the storage shed that's part of the yard then hopefully council's going to approve the purchase of an appropriately appropriate salt Dome as part of the DPW building construction we could we buy and fill continue to fill at the county over the 50 tons well then we wouldn't have it immediately accessible to us here so we don't keep salt all year round in there as soon as the last storm is over I mean you know relatively speaking when we think it is um that salt is returned to to the county so we don't keep salt there um year round and you know obviously it's it's the best we can do now and New Jersey DP understands that but we should have a proper storage for salt that we can maintain it all year long okay page 31 Mr Mr Alman before we go further uh Mr Mayor Mr D Cara would would uh Mr parer at the next meeting I guess we'd have to do it enclosed can you provide a update on the CN frone appe and the um Seasons appeal Mr P would you be able to provide that I know you're know you're not handling it personally but we either have Mr ltina provided or can he provide what's going on you're on mute you're muted Mr P I apologize put that mute thing on yes as a matter of fact I was going to call you personally this week to talk to you about both those cases okay so I have no problem uh yeah giving an update do we give an update next meeting CL do we have to do closed or do we have to do it in open oh closed closed all right so we have to put that on for close for next meeting please yes C there only three more thank you we'll be done sure you're so excited uh page 31 Lurch Vincy yes so Lurch Vincy Bliss uh offers us um the fin Financial Services um we again consult with them on uh on certain um certain items to get their guidance and that's what this expense would be this was you know this was over the course of of time and you know to be honest with you they they give us quite amount of service that they don't bill us for so this wasn't like for one thing this is probably several months of us utilizing their Serv serves for that 900 again without the invoice in front of us so in front of me my concern is that the PO description I'm assuming I'm reading that right is Professional Service barice who is a senior manager with L Vincy and when the concern was raised about the auditor providing Financial advice Financial Services advice and audit Services there had to be a separation because I think the last thing we want is the auditor auditing itself and I don't understand and perhaps you can explain when we see if I could request the invoice is this for time for this your manager and is he providing financial services and audit feedback because that is something that we were told or I was told when I questioned it that there was segregation within the firm and that Auditors would not be providing Financial Service and we know that that is a high-risk proposition um I believe um Mr um Gary Vincy provided a written document that was read by the mayor during a council meeting that uh I don't want to use I mean the word contest is kind of harsh but ESS more explained explained um that you know there is no you know that they're under such high ethical you know regard that and by law also and by law so you know I can't person say that it can't be the same person but I don't go ahead yeah if I can just jump in so I'm sure you may have that on file maybe you can just send it out to the council again that letter that was provided it was a very good explanation from them again I think it's great that they can explain it uh I'm sure the Auditors who you know ordered uh Enron and others you know had that same same explanation and they were bailed out to the tune of billions of dollars and left you know thousands of people completely bankrupt so you know not as dramatic but you know the question was asked specifically with regard to that and again I'm basing it on one description here that the gentleman's name is on all three but if that one person is doing all of it I think that's a problem uh so if we can get a copy of the invoice it would be appreciated is that the last one Mr Alman or is that another one oh aren't you even you're getting tired of it no no I thought you said that was the last you got two more to go oh two more I'm sorry um it's a it's a gross it's a gross distribution so essentially the state gives us the amount it's divided by 12 and then they're given monthly what what number is this so page 33 page 33 number 26 so the line item description is incorrect then page 33 24 contribution to after expense it's in the middle I'm not sure I know there was a resolution passed by Council several years ago addressing this issue U I don't know if it's called an issue but situation yeah situation and um my understanding of it is that that we are not taking um expenses direct associated with the whether it was healthare or whatever out of it so I can look to see um if that wording is incorrect and if it is it can be corrected okay or if we're paying net we need to correct that too no we're definitely it's definitely uh paying grow okay and then the last one on page 34 Boswell engineering the PO I guess the scriptor is 2019 Road Improvement program and it was charged to 450 pasat Road soft costs yeah let me check on that one too thank you any other questions anybody else mik kind of a related question sure with all due respect can we expect this level with each bill payment U one that we submit to council well if each one is 38 Pages 30 well so I don't think they would be they're necessarily going to be asked next time because we've established a baseline of a response but these are things that I guess I don't understand or the report because of the limitations of what can be presented cause me to question what is being done what is being charged um you know if again you know these last two uh you know are we paying a road Improvement Bond are we paying a road Improvement expense from 2019 and charging a property acquisition from 20123 uh that's the only thing I can infer from the information provided so uh yes we will get that question again you know if the descriptor said is contributions due after expenses and there's a a there was a discussion that we should be paying gross because we want to reflect the gross contribution as well as have the expenses in the appropriate line then I think it's a question in my mind that needs to be asked um if it turns out you know uh uh they're correct you know this one in theory can't be correct and the next one can be so you know what's the answer yeah and I only ask because yeah I'm lucky enough I don't have to be up with the crack of dawn for my job but some people here do uh I didn't keep track of how long this discussion took uh and I wouldn't want to see us detract from other business we have to do as it gets later for the council members who do have to be up at the Cracker on um and again only suggestion um since all of these goods or services we know we have to pay for because they were delivered perhaps you could take a straw poll of the council to see if everyone has this level or if it's just you perhaps you can get together with the the administrator you know after each meeting and get your specific questions answered I'm just trying to keep our meting meeting you know don't get me wrong you you have every right and you should be asking the questions but I just don't know if spending a half hour is a good use of all the council members time considering the other business that the council has to attend to that's the only place I've coming from thank you Mr Mayor I think you know Mr Alman brings a lot of white to things that do hurt us when we're putting when we're reviewing the budget when things are incorrectly um you know put to the lines it it it skews the it skews the line items and then we spend more time during the budget session saying hey this shouldn't have been charged here it really goes here and if we can fix those before we get that far when we get that total print out it would be a big help absolutely I thank Mr almond for all his efforts and finding this I think it's a I don't really think that's the consensus of the day but I think it's important how um how far in advance can we get the budget I'm sorry the um the Bill list the bill list usually um no we with kowsky is looking for things you know yesterday yeah um you know in her for defense she has a lot to put together so she usually ask for Stuff of the Wednesday before the meeting so could we have the bill list emailed to us the Wednesday you know yes so there's a lot that gets put into this this bill list and it goes through a review process by me uh and the CFO um and then we asked for Corrections or we asked for additional so by time it gets to miss wowski I mean it could be it's Friday most likely usually Friday this week it was Thursday it was wonderful yeah Thursday you know to to get it any sooner I I can't promise it I mean there's you know th this one was extraordinary because we didn't do a bill list on the the reord meter guess it's never usually this large no no no all right no but we do try to you know again there's there's so many people that are waiting for this you know they're waiting to get it done I'm waiting to review it Miss wowski is waiting so she can you know complete her packet um so you know it's there's there's definitely people knocking at the door to get this done so it's it's definitely not a laid-back situation okay my my only question was to see if you know we had more than like the weekends I know you're not working for us and be able to ask and get responses especially if there's a series of questions okay thank you okay motion to approve resolution number 24-18 do I have a [Music] motion so moved do I have a second second roll call will you had a motion to discuss it motion to I'll make a motion to pass that resolution 24 a motion to approve resolution 24-58 I made a motion okay second was sorry thank you councilman CIO yes councilman Sears yes councilman man yes Council woman bz yes council president sen yes resolution number 24159 authorize the appointment of EB Employee Solutions LLC doing business as the difference card for HRA services for the township of Washington do I have a motion so have a second to discuss discuss second okay you like to discuss it uh Mr om man I believe pulled it right so the contract it's only from March to December I think I don't have it in front of me um I think she did sag during her presentation that it was for a year I'm going to maybe say the first one might be pro rated since we're obviously ready into the year yeah it begins March it begins March 1st 2024 um it does say through December 31st 2024 so and if we find at the end or if we find our claims are trending above we do have the ability to roll back yes we do can I ask um that once this goes live can we get a somewhat regular report on the claims rate the total dollars uh I don't see why not as long as yeah I I will ask well you're going to know what's in the bank account it's just the bank account just the bank statement like because it's not like you're going to be able to see anybody else's account you're just going to know how much money is in I mean I ask I answer it that way because you know I don't know what they can give because it's Health healthcare related whether it's Hippa or whatever well I don't think that wouldn't fall under clients it would just it's just your bank account you look at it whenever you want I don't it's not breaking down out of ignorance I didn't ask the question but I don't even think we have to establish a separate bank account the money's going to stay in our line and we they're all it's all interest bearing while it's there but I I need to find that out as well I mean there's you know there's numerous pages of paperwork to complete now that the resolution is good so as you can imagine but yes I will find out all that information I I would ask the administration to make it a separate account so we can keep track of where we are just to make things easy for like what do you mean a separate bank account a separate account for for this so we can easily identify what's coming in what's going on a budget line bank account bank account Andor budget line yeah I mean we're we're going to fund it you know but we like to know where where we stand I don't think we'll have a problem this way we can see what the rollover rate is for the following year correct because if you don't use it it stays in that account and you only have to fund it whatever is lacking any other discussion on this well I just we just have to have the ability to fund it we don't have um was it Emily em yes she said we didn't have to have it funded we just had to have the ability to fund it so do we have to raise $580,000 to sit in a bank account or do we just have to have the ability to raise that I believe we have to ask for what's expected to be spent in our account line so we're budgeted correctly if if that answers your question but I believe it has to be the in this account January 1st the money has to be there from my understanding March well year yeah I'm sorry I don't know the legistics of how it's going to work do sense but you know we're going to start diving into it now if the resolution is is passed Pro I think it's gonna pass but I guess my only question would be can we get an opinion do we have to have do we have to earmark 520,000 whatever that number is $529,000 and have it sitting in a interest bearing account or do we have to just have the ability to raise that find out okay the answer won't change my answer just could be part part of surplus it could be part of surplus well we also have I I don't think we' spent the million from from the school the school so we could earmark part of that to fund the account and through current account raise uh the rest on a yearly basis okay any other discussion on the H the uh H service no no no motion to approve resolution number 24159 authorize the appointment of EB Employee Services Solutions L LC doing business as a difference card for H services for the T of Washington have a motion second roll call councilman Casio yes councilman seers yes councilman Omen yes Council valz no council president to sener yes resolution number 24-1 163 authorize the mayor to execute shared services agreement with the county of Bergen for short-term rental of County owned street sweeper in the amount not to exceed $155,000 my my question Noy go you can I'm make a motion motion second for discussion discuss Mr asked to be for it to be yes thank you um my only question was how does this relate to our deal with paramis same is this in addition to and Li of paramis I just want understand it gives us options yeah neither agreement has a minimum that we have to use um so obviously we want to try and use the one from paramis we're hoping it'll give us some cost benefits uh yeah County thank no no please correct me uh from the county uh because it will be with our own driver and we'll get rid of the debris that it picks up uh so we want to obviously try it make sure it works but if for any reason it doesn't work we're not locked into any minimum with the county and we can go back to using parameters we're not in any minimum number of sweepings that we're locked into with them so it's not going to um turn off pris because we're using the county there's no agreement or void the I I don't think it will okay it's a back up what is the um what is the what is the um if if I've had this happen in one of my towns in the past we end up borrowing it and then we can't prove that it was broken when we borrowed it and we in carel to make is that part of the agreement came up Mark you remember the specific answer I don't know if I don't yeah it did come up and yeah we we can take a look at it I just don't remember off hand okay yeah because one of my towns ended up borrowing it okay and it broke while we had it and we ended up incurring like a lot of money in maintenance cost because they said well you had it you paid for it okay so but we didn't break it we know we didn't bre because we never used it yeah okay okay we we'll get that answered before we use our first s from them I have two questions regarding this the first question is do we do you do we have someone and do we need someone trained in using it number one that's the first question we do okay and train us that can do it okay and the second question is do you have any idea and you probably don't what The Dumping costs are per ton at this point for debris what was the second question do you know what the dumping fees are at this point what the rate is just an idea charging us separately I don't know if they were marking it up or not each Street each street sweeping Rus was averaging about 75 7600 I think there was actually one on this bill list not mistaken um so obviously it depends on how much we pick up I don't remember how much it is um per ton but it was one of the things if you remember last year that went up and we had to redo the agreement so you know we're It's Made that we have to do um I think a minimum of three with New Jersey D and then last year you know we did do um an additional service it was very minimal you know to clear the path for the run the 5K run um under those you know around those streets around the lake for the run so each time it was running you know about 75 7600 we do do for a year you know simple math is 30,000 if it works out with the know utilizing the rental portion is going to save a significant amount of money but I can't always guarantee it if you know if we have something going on with DPW that week I you know I'm just trying to come up with an example why we wouldn't be able to do it but that is going to be our primary goal is to save the money um how guys do it with the county to do it with the county yes yeah okay any other discussion I'm satisfied motion to approve resolution number 24-1 163 authorize the me to execute shared service agreement with the county of Bur for short-term rental of county-owned street sweeper in the amount of not to exceed $155,000 do I have a motion second R fall councilman CIO yes councilman Sears yes councilman Alman yes Council woman bz yes council president uh the sen yes moving on can we take a five minute break I know it's l I know it's late but I think we need a five minute break please excuse bless you to adjourn to the conference agenda please so move second second all in favor I conference agenda DPW PD building Mr daro Mr Mayor um yeah that's more me um again I said just going to leave it on here um yeah I don't know the new council members have had a chance to review uh the the different options and you know had any opinions to voice as to next next step for us to go I had I had voiced my opinion pre uh taking office again okay I I I in total agreement that the DPW needs a new building they deserve a new building I am not in favor of putting the courtroom on top of it um it just does not make sense to me to to move it from here to there I know I know there's implications for the police department then but I think you know I'm looking at the cost that Mr uh that our carry and iino have have come up with um I think you know it's it's a it's an ambitious plan it's an 8 million plan um I I I'd like to see the DPW get their building and I I don't know if Mr Dar Carlo had a chance to talk to the munaki representatives about their new DPW building that they built on Route 17 I'm sorry I had okay um I I I'm not you know the $8 million is a lot to spend Mr Mayor and with the swim club plans coming to fruition hopefully soon I I think we the the children of our community deserve fields and I think that's going to be a big expense to provide Fields either there or do something somewhere else I I know Memorial still needs help and the other fields you know we've done small things which have been a big Improvement but I I think we need to spend a couple million dollars possibly on our kids for Fields or more um so I I I'm again I I'm in total support of the DPW getting a building but at this time to add you know the $2 million expense for the PD on top which I don't feel is the right place for it I just can't see us moving the council chambers on top there during emergencies and and just the location of it and having to build an elevator there and all the added expense um at this point in time um without I you know we've all sat up here myself previously on the day and as a resident that our our children need Fields um they need better fields and I think we we you know we need to maybe reprioritize some of this money for something else I'm not saying that nobody's you know the police department's deserving what they need also but I just feel that it's just a very ambitious project at this time um and not include something for you know the Youth of our our residents that's my comments anybody else um I would just like to say that in terms I agree with you that our children do need fields we can work the grant the grant writer has been excellent at finding so many grants and us being successful with grants so there are opportunities to improve our Fields using grant money however there is no Grant to improve DPW and so while I I respect and and I agree with your your comments regarding fields for our kids um that's that's important to me we can find funds through grants opportunities can we maybe ask uh the grant writer to see what's available so we could prioritize we have sir as far as um like a DPW or no no no like like Miss valz asked if there's field money available oh yeah he's currently working on um you know I guess what would be considered phase two of local Recreation Improvement Grants and and things like that I mean there's nothing out there for the millions that I I know we would need know that you're talking about um but it is certainly adding up what we are what we are being awarded so yeah nobody's disagreeing with that but at some point in time is you know it you know it it could be you know it started out as a 5 million you know like a $5 million project and now we've more it into an 8 million by you know the police department changes and it's just you know it's a lot it's it's a lot to spend for a small municipality like ours and so so are you and I don't want to put words in your mouth are you saying that if it was the 5 million for the DPW would be more in favor of it absolutely yeah but I I'd like to look at I like I said I think I think Council if you're down in the in the Woodridge um Hasbro kites area look over on Route 17 and see the beautiful building that munaki has built for a lot less of the cost that we're talking about and it's massive it is it is probably but it's just a DPW correct and our I I feel that our problem is we have such a small space and we're trying to work DPW police and then potentially councel so we're trying to squeeze a whole bunch into a small area and if we were doing separate buildings for all this it would be much more than the seven or seven and a half but know I I I don't ever Envision us I I I I don't see the need I think we've we've coexisted in this building all these years and I understand it's tight and I've seen all the presentations I've come to the council meetings and I understand that the the space requirements but at this time to to spend you know you know 8 million in in hard construction costs plus all the soft costs and then tack on another you know million for the field at you know at at the pool without having a plan yet is I think we we really need like some kind of plan going forward to say you know what is everything going to cost us before you know and I'm not saying to put there on on hold but I think there there are different Avenues to possibly you know reduce the cost and maybe get it all done if we if we build a different type of building um you know I I I that's just my opinion you know Rockland County just put up a new you know modular uh DPW you know they built a massive County complex right off the Garden State Parkway ramp if you look up on the hill when you're coming off when you're coming off um you come off to tapen Z and you get on the Garden State Parkway you can see they just built a 23 million doll complex there which is it's a sprawling complex um so I I would just like to see us maybe have all the numbers and then you know prioritize but but let's remember the longer we wait the more expensive it becomes absolutely true so and the DPW serves all our residents so these are these are things to consider that while I'm sorry did you want I didn't say not yet that's just my those are just my thoughts you know that's I'm not saying they don't deserve building absolutely deserve a new building their you know their for of building was atrocious and their quarters right now are not correct either but you know if you don't mind I think the council was faced with we have a police department that has outgrown we have a DPW that has outgrown and now we're trying to figure out how to fit this big group into a small area here without buying property which we didn't want to do so I mean we look at option three at that time seemed to be the best solution that would solve both problems might have not been the greatest solution but that was the option three that we wanted to move forward I only one voice I we wanted to move forward and get something going for these these gentlemen absolutely and for the residents who you know would have access to some of the services that we wanted to provide with recycling right correct me from wrong some of the E Recycling and we're going to be forced to do certain recycling soon um I mean have we I mean have we looked into I'm definitely going to take a ride and don't get that building down Moon I mean have we have we for temporarily have we looked into I know years ago um former former um councils kabashi idea but we used to e recycle with Westwood and it was a nominal fee um so is that something we could look at Mr Mayor just doing a shared service agreement for e- recycling and recycling itself so if our residents you know like I you know we all have our party and then we got to wait till recycling goes out which at least it's going out more than it used to but if you had place to like on a Saturday you had a couple bins to go drop off or that didn't generate a lot for Westwood because like everybody else I live in Washington to I don't want to drive but at least if we gave the residents an option Mr Ser IE with you options are at least for the time being you know and I I think that was more favorable Tom to you might have been heading when recyclings actually had a value correct now you have to pay to get rid of them as opposed to having a value all right just something we council president uh can I just ask clarifying question um first of all I don't even believe you there's a town named monaki uh but if there is can hel some and Sears drive me there and buy me lunch that day I really appreciate that and uh what seriously though what am I what are we actually going to look at just just dere they've built it's a modular steel building um it's it's got I think eight Bays on it it's you know it's it's as Paul is our Firehouse I know we talked about the cost of Steel what did we call it Stone but I don't remember what but there was something about the deterioration of it yeah I just said the life expectancy is L the and the price difference was minimal not minimal I just I just like to just I mean could we call monaki and see if that's what I saying we reach out to our administrator and way you don't have to drive and buy him it's not the hot dog house the other way around is there hot dog is there Mr car you like hotg Frank all right um Mr Mary the 2024 Road program um not not not to get off that issue um you I'd like to hear from council member uh CIO and alond if they have an opinion also just to get us a direction yeah you know I I'll look at I'll look at uh another option I have no problem with that you know we don't need we don't need a Taj anywhere we just need a place to put our vehicles and a place for our our uh our workers to be comfortable and safe so I I'm open to look at anything anywhere Mr Alman anything else to add to that so uh you know I expressed I think at it was either the last meeting or the meeting before um my hesitancy to put the council chamber immediately above the uh workspace of the DMF uh you know was pointed out that we no longer that court is really remote at this point uh is that still the so you know one is is this over or are overreaching in what we're building if we don't need it um you know do we need judges Chambers do we need public defender uh Chambers do we need uh these other support mechanisms if court is remote or we want to consider merging our courts uh and then it becomes just a chamber for the council to meet and if that's the case are there other opportunities for us because quite honestly it's you know two meetings a month for the council two meetings for planning and one for zoning so or two okay so five meetings in total you know like do we want to engineer a building to fit all of that for five nights is it really needed so well I mean I can use the same argument in the sense that it's five meetings so why are we going to not give the DPW and the police the space they need and let us be uncomfortable for five meetings you you are required by law to have a judge's chamber and he needs to have emergency access out of that but it's still remote as if you don't mind but I mean when when they go back I'm sure they're going back yeah I'm sure it's not if but when yeah to add on to councilman Sears um our architect advis us when coming up with this plan that this room is already out of compliance with New Jersey courts because of the lack of that um and again any Second Story we put on on a new building has to have an corre got have Anor yeah so even even the um even if it was just a DPW B again I'm not trying to steer in any specific Direction but just wanted to clarify those two points you know I don't know if you know Mr courts comes along somewhere and says you know this is obsolete now and it's you know it's not compliant you can't use it um but there was many things that were uh but brought into the consideration of of option three being but is that something we want to do shared services with and maybe find a town yeah right you know it's not like there isn't another answer I just I think I think I think it was just in the paper this week that Two Towns merged their Courts Hill and West Hillsdale and Westwood merg their courts together so you know at the end of the day to me it's a it's a two it's a $2.3 million second floor yeah no matter how we slice and dicing and I just don't like the I I don't like the location of it I think there's other things maybe we could pursue um I don't know what but like um location my with the understanding of you know looking at M's building and revisiting the the steel construction rather the what do we call it brick water mortar is there one of these options that is more more attractive to the council omitting option three so I guess is option one or option two I really didn't put I only we said we were only looking at option three so I really didn't okay I didn't I didn't study option one or two because we we said the other meeting that option three was the previously preferred option of the previous Council so I I I apologize I did not you know what let me make a brief comment you know I think I think I think all here on the days and in municipal government we get a little I say pissed off at Trent and telling us what to do it's mandated and it costs us a lot of money and I really would like to Stick it to the Man and Trenton that you know we're we can't afford doing everything the way they want it done and it's really frustrating you know we're all trying to do the right thing for our residents but a lot of times our hands are tied which is a shame and I I wish the the people would speak up and not let these people that Force us to do stuff that cost us a lot of money that we shouldn't have to do I mean not to say that some things we have here aren't adequated but it's been working for us for years and we haven't grown by Leaps and Bounds in the township population wise it's pretty much stayed the same for about the last 20 years minus a few thousand 9,000 10,000 but they keep putting the stuff on us all the time we've functioned pretty well for the last you know when of family 150 years we've been doing pretty good you know and that really uh irritates me with Trenton you know with the COA and all that other stuff Tom that we have to do so that's just you know that's just a comment and I guess a frustration I have with with the state government putting uh burdens on municipal government another reason why we were looking at option three is the jail has to be out of the basement and it has to be up here it has to be where they can drive in to a a sally port take the prisoner out and bring them on a flat level a straight level to a jail and I believe we we we we currently go somewhere else when we have that situation no the jail is still downstairs they bring to hold them in then send them I'm saying couldn't we send them with like go have shared services and go to Hillsdale or Westwood and use their facility I'm I'm just I'm I'm spitballing here I'm not saying it's well don't forget you have to you have to take two cops out of town to take that prisoner somewhere but we're just going to Westwood or you still have to take two cops I understand but I mean it's not to to to build another facility for I mean again I'm not saying we don't need giv some inroads and why we were looking at option three all right if I could respectfully ask the council then just so we don't lose more time if that's okay if the council could respectfully look at options one and two in the meantime maybe I can convince Tom or Mr Sears to drive us down to munaki youry it just I know it's a matter of resurfacing um us looking into that um the steel construction and I think you miss wasowski kind of didn't you put something out through like the clerk's office and and solicited some information I just don't remember what the answer was I don't think it was many but if we could do it simultaneous yeah I'll look it I'll see what I have maybe we do it again and you know I certainly wouldn't want to answer for the police but having that background yes it's an option but like councilman here says there's going to be tradeoffs you know removing officers from their patrol areas and their ability to respond in a geographical area that's you know or the C of over time so you know I understand it's just there's trade-offs with everything and again I wouldn't want to answer that for the police department and I'm not saying that's the op I just want just F if I memory serves me right Bob stickle was the one that presented us with the metal construction correct the for how many not the forms with designs yeah that was that's correct how many arrests annually require the use of a Sally do we have statistics I don't know Police Department I think when I asked for it a year ago or two years ago we had 25 25 occupancies I'll call them for lack of a better term it's on the monthly police report we have I thought but I think for the year 25 again not to speak for the police department but I would I would cringe like I don't know what I would have done if I had a Stairway throwing down in my jail Stu I mean you're just you're one tragedy away from a very significant liability that's I'm saying even even in of building maybe in the interim it's a worthy concept to look at doing it with our neighbors you know doing it safer than walking down a staircase don't Telegraph a lot all right Mr Alman you still have more discussion on this or no I was just uh just going back to the question of Statistics um the current report uh is significantly skinnier than the last one that I had from um my prior stay on Council so I don't know there's been a lot of uh elimination of information so I didn't note it perhaps I'm not looking at the report properly so uh you know perhaps I could speak to Mr Dar Carlo about it uh to understand uh how many arrests or how many times that Port would be needed okay anything else on this subject 2024 Road program Mr May Mark you want the 2024 okay so we talked about um several things as you know try and jump start our 20204 road program uh one of the ideas was to you know obviously see if we can get council's approval and dedicating money towards the road program and also getting a head start on the uh the New Jersey DOT uh Road program do we know which one that'll be it'll be Calvin Street Calvin so we were uh and it's going to be from Ridgewood to do okay and BOS engineering submitted the NJ do Grant with an estimated cost of that length of Road of 288,000 that's construction you know 5% design engineering 15% construction inspection uh so just round it up say 290 the grant award was for 166 168 my request and recommendation is to council is to give me you know go ahead to you know of course okay with the mayor to uh have um a capital ordinance um ready to be introduced for you guys by the next meeting if it worked out uh appropriating uh you know to say the 290 as the estimate knowing that 166 will come back to us um I did give it's somewhere in my paperwork but I did give the council the information that was requested by councilman uh the Sena regarding our Capital Surplus and our Capital Improvement which we have sufficient efficient amount to cover that cost and that that'll get us a very nice Head Start so Mr cor I'll give us a list of where we're going to pull the 130 from or you are you well Mr D something well yeah we pull it from Capital Surplus or the capital Improvement plan correct but you'll tell us which line it is on that absolutely so Mark we can I'm sorry I go no we can um we can just do the one we can approve one cap we can approve one Capital project in advance of the rest of the budget that correct yes that's a great idea so we can get a jump on it I mean I'm okay with that number we can get it from someone and I i' vote on tonight if we have it so let's do it for next meeting because that road is so bad I've had so many residents tell me how bad it is yes and um we're going to get it done because it needs to be done it's a horrible Road okay horrible Road thank you that's good progress love to get it any other discussion on that uh budget taxes Mr car Mr Mayor one one second that's that's only for that one right not the rest of Road program yeah no it's it's going to kind of be involved this year because we have 18 rows from psse and G some doing half some there's mem moratoriums on some is full then there's the roads we're recommending to get done so there's a lot more involved that we're we're trying to do horse trading with PSG which we think is going to work out but you know there's going to be you know number of roads that we're going to come to the council for asking if we um get those horses traded early before the entire budget I'd like to put that one through as as quickly as possible not wait until the end know Mr uh Mr Beck Meer and and myself uh made several trips around the town the last couple weeks since you know uh the mayor had told you and we have our list together we have you know our meetings with PS and set up and you know we know the roads that we're going to present before you so do we know which roads PG intends to do as part of the re this year absolutely oh I'm sorry say that again are the are the rebuild Street are there any more rebuild streets so I had to fill out the ahead of Paving for violia and PS so I told them you know of course I went overboard with how many roads we're going to do but I don't think they're coming back but I haven't been told yes or no all right thank you that's just psng or my will as well both I filled it out for both but I haven't been notified um from either one C I think is trying to get in out of Wasington town so they may be done their rebuild may be done yeah any other discuss just may I ask um the paving of Washington by the county and the paving of potentially van emberg can we just put that on the list of things to monitor yeah so the latest with that is you know they're committing to doing van ber and Ridgewood 2425 the latest answer from Tom Connelly superintendent of road for the county with Washington AB is they're waiting for the the dot Grant to come through from Washington AB so there's you know you saw how quickly they sprung pasak Road on us you know within a couple weeks which we were very happy to hear you know we could get a phone call tomorrow that it's going to happen so we're anticipating it to happen the 24th and do you know if they're doing it border to border or is it yes okay yeah it's that's what represented at least at this time I mean with the stretch pulled out from the intersection yeah I would hope we wouldn't do it again but no that's not and Mr J Carlo you know my my favorite piece of road Beach Street thanks see you're the only one that gets paved seven times in five years can I guess can I guess yes it's Ridgewood between pasak and Ridgewood yes you got it yes thank you make sure it's on your radar they promised we had you know we paid when I was on Council Mr DEA we had our engineer redo all the handicap ramps in anticipation of the full stretch and then they came in and did pieces and then they said they were coming back and they never came back remember that yeah trust no one budget taxes Mr Dara Mr Mayor um yeah that that's uh mostly me um WCTV can you put slide a up please um it's the one that was presented at the last meeting um showing the spending um and yeah I'm just asking um I know it was in your packets um does anyone dispute the numbers because I know you had a concern about that when I first presented them I I did I I did not get a chance to revie okay okay um I apologize I SK through the package and I didn't see it yeah no problem um I wish I would have known cuz you said you were going to email it to us and we never got it so I didn't know it was in the package oh okay well yeah no problem I went through every page it's a big yeah it is it was this time yes especially the bill list as we said yes um and so uh the spending was authorized and spent regardless um but you know 10 more than 10% of our annual budget is to pay uh for a big part of those improvements uh because we're paying off debt of about 19 million um and so again I just want to point that out to the residents is that you know I don't think anyone can dispute the any of those things were not needed in town uh that's why the council voted to pass them uh but that does take up 10% of our annual budget um so again just pointing that out thank you Mr Mayor yeah um now if you could put up slide D please and that's a new slide and since you all had trouble seeing last time I apologize so I made a copy of it but I'll pass down right now well that's not in our package no this was not because I I didn't get to finish it till the weekend um basically it Recaps I think what I had said last meeting uh as far as all the um non-discretionary items um what they add up to is you know all numbers are approximate obviously but it adds up to 12.7 million um and I I don't see that any of these would be discretionary um I I hope I could get agreement on on that concept um and and the percent of the budget is 81% of the total budget so again uh I'm just I'm confused as to where we're going to come up with a 10% Municipal cut um to to the budget when 12.7 is mandatory uh you're almost saying out of the remaining because uh the remainder is 15.7 in round numbers uh that you're going to have to cut half of that remaining budget um I just don't see it happening um I I hope it does uh this as I said at the uh at the mayor's breakfast I'm going to be happy to share the plan with all the other municipalities uh because I want to see them save money also and again uh if you can put up the third slide slide C uh this was the one I had up last time again I'm just uh Curious to anyone on the council or anyone in the public uh not here tonight but uh you know what criteria is being used to say the taxes in town are too high we're right in the middle of our pasak Valley towns um and like I said going back to my original thing uh Debt Service is more than 10% of the budget the town needed those improvements um you know like I said um no one disagreed that those things needed to be done and we were making up for a lot of inaction in the past uh ideally you would space these projects out over longer period of time but you know we didn't have that luxury uh the can could no longer be kicked down the road and again different councils agreed on that at least during my term as mayor so far uh you know I don't know how many different councils there have been I'm going to say three four um but they all agreed that these things needed to be done so again I don't enjoy spending the money please but they're all things that had to be done in my opinion and so I I don't think the taxes are too high I think they're in a good range for what we're getting for the tax dollar thank you thank you summer recordes Mr gar oh I'm sorry I'm sorry I comment um when I was reviewing the tax assessor's paperwork where she provided so I know there was a question about these numbers council president y um so when I was reviewing Sarah's numbers and of numbers she also gave us the same exact numbers it's on the one of the last Excel sheets M and it says 0.656 Municipal purpose p I'm not I'm not disagreeing with that number I I I know that number is correct but when you compare us to Westwood you know Westwood is double double or triple the size of us and you know they have a lot more tax base than we do so to compare those two numbers next to each other well that's the the number for Westwood as well exactly the same again I'm not disagreeing but when you multiply you know that number that's what comes up to their budget and and but they but but they have more houses than we do so it's it's a little misleading by just presenting that number okay that's all I'm saying I took note that the taxes assessor has the same numbers I I had I was waiting for this I I started to I started to do some census data and trying to find the 10 Towns and what the uh population was and what the actual housing Mark you know like how many houses like we have 3256 homes I believe in Washington Township as for the Post Office there's a there's a great little thing you on the post office and it tells you how many houses you're in town so I was starting to do that but I didn't have this exact list so now that I have it I'm going to try to do that and then I'll have more information in the next week anything else on that thank you Mr Mayor the summer rec fees yes um we're starting to put the budget together for the summer wre program and uh we haven't raised it for the past two maybe three years uh we feel we're going to need an increase this year because you know cost of very thing is going up uh and so uh in light of the ordinance change that the council just was kind enough to pass putting maximums on uh we feel we're going to exceed the current maximum that's in the uh the uh coordinance right now what is that number I believe it's 450 Mark and we're going to go above 450 yes yeah it was there was the out of town fee that's projected or requested to go up by the sub camp director and the in town mhm so what are we looking to go to oh um we'd like to raise it to 500 we're hoping to stay under that uh but again to just it was 425 last year Mr 450 I'm sorry 450 yeah um we're hoping to stay under that uh but again now with the ordinance change we put the maximum in there and again because you know the numbers will come in close to registration time um I would just like you know a straw pole whether we can put that on and uh have uh the ordinance for a first reading at the next meeting can we present last year's numbers um can we be given last year's numbers um shown what the total expense was and what we brought in um so we can make an informed decision on that and what the new numbers the rec director is thinking they're going to be that we need to raise it $50 per child that's it's a you know 10% mhm that's a lot especially if you have multiple children that's just get I mean it's a great it's a great program I'm not disagreeing but I just like to see like what what what our actual you know what the what we what we brought in what the operating budget was I mean did we break even did we right you know I'd like to see that I you a big part of it was uh as May a lot of you may know minimum wage you now has been going up every year and that's what we pay some of our people the state minimum wage uh and so we've absorbed that the last two years uh but again that went up annually so that's one of the costs that has gone up uh you I believe yeah yeah no we had to increase the amount of counselors we also brought more Revenue because we and uh yeah we're talking to Bethany now about what their rates are going to be their thing because they that if we could present that like hey Bethany was charging us x per child now it's X plus this for child and these are we're going to add five more counselors whatever it may be I'm not disagreeing with any of them um would it be okay uh when I get you that information to also put the ordinance change on at least for a first reading um and you know if he's don't approve it and you know there's no harm done in it's doing a first reading uh but that way when when when does it when is this going to open for April 1 okay all right that's anybody have any objection to that okay okay thank you letter received purchasing adjacent properties Mr Mayor um it only got my initials on it because the the residents submitted their initial letter to me uh but I believe uh Mr PA is prepared to discuss this with the council Mr Mr Mr paa can I just ask a quick question before I read the letter um I know when I was on Council last time we we were trying to make a big push to eliminate these properties so the town doesn't have to maintain them they're you know you know they can go on the tax roll because if the if the adjacent owners buy them right get more taxes out of it right but I I I as I was walking around town campaigning I was told that we had like minimum minimum bids that were required to be submitted is is there any truth to that or is that just somebody upset because they didn't get it you know yeah that's that's that's not that's not true the but the the requirement is when you have these kind of lots if you have an undersized lot with no Capital Improvements you can sell to the uh to the contiguous land owner corre but the statute does say that that has can't be for less than fair market value uh and that's that's obviously where the rub is um so this letter came in uh this these people live at 328 Colonial Boulevard uh they're looking to acquire the piece of property that's next to them I guess it takes it to Time Square um and um it all it all comes down to the the uh the price I mean if you know letters go out to the contiguous land owners he would they would probably be the only ones that would buy it and then the statute does say for not less than fair market value so what I did is I I did ask Sarah to give us uh an assessment of what the fair market value of the property was and she came in with $125,000 that the property was the fair market value was now we don't have a formal appraisal uh we just have you know what her her her feeling is in terms of fair market value which is probably pretty pretty good um and then we had this offer of 50,000 saying that's all I think it's worth basically because um it is what it is and it's higher than our property etc etc so that's that's kind of where we are in the The Dilemma of wanting to sell property but then the the issue of the fair not less than fair market value comes in so that's that's the question is is the statute like State requirement is it a town requirement for the fair market state state state requirement and is that fair market so how do they assess fair market value because it's well obviously obviously you don't do fair market value statuto there no such thing fair market value is is obtaining fair market value in the usual way which would be appraisals uh and um uh you know the appraisers go out and they look at uh comparable sales of properties of similar sizes uh this is unimproved land so it's just straight land um so I mean if you were interested in it um we can hire an appraiser to appraise it and see what the fair market value is from a formal point of view uh but that's that's kind of where we are but there so there's no way to say like like I I know like 20 years ago one of my towns did this and they basically the agreement was they would ask like let's just say it was a sliver you know between four residents right so they would ask you know each each contiguous resident hey do you want this um but the the term was you had to do the you had to have it surveyed have your survey changed and spend up to about $10,000 in costs right new deed you were then going to be taxed on it so the town is now generating money on a piece of property that they don't have to take care of anymore like worrying about dead trees worrying about maintenance and all that that so it's a win-win but we didn't have that statute that said we needed to sell a fair market value we just basically said hey you're pick if you want it you pick up the cost and you're going to pay taxes on it um so I guess something changed in the law and through the years but well is there any way to do that because then we dump a lot of these properties and start getting tax revenue in for well let me let me let me say this um I mean I I if you're if you're looking to have the homeowner kind of contribute to finding out that the property can be sold to them we could have them assume the cost of the appraisal I mean they want they want to buy for $50,000 we're told preliminarily it's worth $125,000 if the appraisal comes in it you know there's there's obviously a corridor if ites if it's you know 60,000 70,000 you know if you're in the same ballpark you could take the view that it's because the appraisers usually can give you a range and tell you that uh could qualify for fair market value it's it's um it is an undersized lot it's not like a fully buildable lot so you would think it would have a you know a lesser value uh but without an appraisal you know we're just shooting in the dark about what the property is worth how big is the property it's it's not 25t why for 125,000 that's what I'm saying it's that's that's on right right Mr PA it's I thought I thought I thought it could be a little bit bigger than that but it's definitely undersized um it's not a real lot you can't can't build can't build no it's it's not a build of a lot it's not a build of a lot I do the appraisal they they want they have to BU appraisal then it'll find out we'll know we'll know what the value is I'm sure it's not g to come under under 50 what's what's an appr I mean let me let me say this they they probably get an appraisal for 500 $500 so certainly worth $500 or so for that uh to to get a price that they're looking for more and then we would take that off the the price what would that come off the price then Mr PA like whatever money they spend that come off price or no no the appraisal the appra purpose of the appraisal is to assess fair market value so you got you have to get fair market value uh so uh it's it wouldn't come off the it wouldn't come off the purchase price that's a question Mike yeah and uh is there any conflict to have the homeowner get the appraisal um I mean I would prefer if we would get the appraisal tell you the truth uh use use our usual appraiser who does you know tax appeals and things of that nature but we could say that the homeowner could pay for it yeah maybe we would open up an escrow account that they would put money in and then the town do it something like that that'd be fine yeah that would be fine okay let's get Let's Get It a praise and get it off the books we can sell we can sell more tax I know we we we we we sold last time I was on Council we sold some another piece of property to somebody else that was bigger than this one for half of what our tax assessor said was worth so to say that this one's worth 125 knowing that the one we sold for 50 is a huge disparity and that's why I'm I'm concerned with you know when I was walking around hearing those numbers knowing what we sold the one on another Street for for for 50 which was a lot larger it was a full you know it was double the size of this one street yes San streets Mr Mar we'll leave it at that all right so do that yeah so we we'll move ahead on on on telling the homeowner about the appraisal get money up front find out the cost of the appraisal and have the appraisal done correct that's fine I may everybody else okay with that yeah yeah all right project tracker Mr Dar Cara hopefully it's a quick one I'm gonna put words in Mark's mouth and say it can be as quick as you want it to be difference card you know the update T the resolution thank youit was completed I also completed the compliance order uh early January GP GSP sorry G State Parkway uh intersection 168 another meeting with authority Memorial Field we just waiting on the contractor to begin the ms4 storm water mapping is hopefully to be completed in March and that was a New Jersey D requirement we paid for with uh with Grant M North Gate HOA they are starting um hopefully they started today going to be started tomorrow with hopes to have it done in June uh this this was made major progress senior Park they me of the tur will be done tomorrow storm water pollution plan plan is uh being updated by storm water compliance Solutions again we paid for this service by our TR General hermit Grant and the swim club the mayor is working with the 23 Road program you guys know we're waiting we're supposed to be being first in the que and spring uh to address the other two streets which is Clark and Cypress we also made Bas engineering where uh that water seems to be uh presenting itself a little further down on FL commuter lot uh they did some significant work this past week today they did some of the drainage work on Washington na they're an anticipating the the um you know most of it being done by the week of 212 but we'll have to be coming back for landscaping fencing the paving and early spring DPW facility we talked about this evening one of the two vehicles I was told by Mr Waller came in last Friday the F350 is here still waiting on another one uh Garder field repair we're working on the waiting for the contractor P Renovations we talked about that town hall elevator as you know we contracted with TK and we gave them their first installment um as far as the map book The latest updates Bas engineering is completing the hydraulic opulation the stream design and the environmental report design phase will hopefully be completed by the end of week February 9th and then the environmental report the following week and then we can work obtaining requiring the permit from Jersey D and right now we are working on getting property owner consent to access the properties in order to do the work um there hasn't been any uh further compl completion of the removal of the trees however I did speak with Mr La yesterday they are putting together a uh list of trees that they'll be able to get to or not get to and we've been waiting for this downtime of the winter um from other tasks they have to do they're going to try and pull some of the obstructed the trees causing obstruction um that are associated with Township property we're not going on you know private property that that is actually requirement our Bo that the owner um is supposed to have that done and let's see anything else we did finally get an answer from the Turn Pike Authority regarding the sound barers uh very simply they're not going to entertain it um unless it's a project that they're going to do so they don't do sound studies and they wouldn't even consider putting in a sound barrier where they haven't already unless they are planning on doing some type of expansion of the road then come thank [Music] you I think that's it okay thank you can I ask what's the uh scope of the Memorial Field project we're doing drainage along the part of the property that is behind the plround and the Pavilion so it's a it's a long stretch of drainage it's a retaining wall um it's some braiding and then the rubber perimeter around the playground itself is getting replaced and then we're putting drainage inside the playground as well that's going to go directly into a catch Basin that's on the property so essentially we're preventing water runoff that's causing us money costing us money um and replenishing you know Mulch and dirt and having to remove it from the sidewalk and stuff like that so good project and what's going on at car um kind of the same thing it's just not drainage we're putting in a um last year we asked I think for maybe 130 to replace let's just say it was 130 in capital replace all the playground equipment Gardener um Council approved 30 so we have been peac mealing it okay so they're supposed to put in a new swing set that has 88 and we're also putting a new rubber perimeter uh in there and I think we might be replacing a couple little pieces but we couldn't really do spot repairs because you know molds change and you know things don't fit from something that was 10 years ago so so nice improvements there as well thank you sign ordinance Mr CIA yeah uh you know our sign ordinance is pretty uh is pretty tight I in my opinion um and you know that the uh alcu is pretty uh adant about letting you put pretty much anything you want on your property um and we've tightened it up but what I'd like to see added to that sign ordinance is that um we know who actually put the sign up so I'm asking in that particular ordinance we add verbiage saying that uh a sign any sign should be uh 10 ft uh from the property line because a lot of times I've gone around in numerous occasions numerous elections and I've asked people is this your son they say no my neighbor's son go to the neighbor it's not their sign so I think that's one way of tiing up the ambiguity of who has the sign on their La I'm sorry so um again we we talked about this before Ken about having signs on right on Prop property lines right remember we talk about numerous times like to add verbiage that the sign has to be you know you know off that property line like about 10 feet so a setback like like a setback like a setback exactly a setback about 10 ft or so so we know who owns the sign and I was explaining I if you heard you know in the last couple of Cycles um you know there's political signs up specifically that neither of the two uh Property Owners uh lay claim to they think it's the other person sign so it's just a small I think a small um uh fix um and I think it would solve a lot of problems but again as I was mentioning the you know how the American civil liberties Union is pretty liberal with you know what goes on your um what goes on your um lawn as free speech and we've talked about that numerous times Ken you know so we have to kind of be careful with that as well so that's all my comments for that particular right so basically you want the ordinance change with that that provision yeah the set that y okay everybody okay with that yes good well I I do have a question though because if you have a share space um and your neighbors okay with it then you wouldn't need would that be an exception for the the setb back so like if you you have a shared um driveway well not a driveway that they it happens in my prop you have that Island an island that divides both our DS so our property is right next to each other I think um in that case as long as your neighbor which is you ask for permission they're okay with it then there wouldn't be a possibility for a St back in that case I'm okay with that exception that's not a problem that's not a problem uh okay the only thing is you have to you have to you have to legislate for so um how uh you know how are you going to create the exceptions if you say you say there's a setback of 10 feet what what kind of uh rubric are you using to allow for exceptions you can't just say you know uh councilwoman's uh properties accepted you I think there could be others things of that nature well I'm sure there's more of than just in me I know I I'm just saying that that's why I'm saying that's why you need it needs to be ver it needs to be you know expressed we we'll flush it out a little bit and we can come up with something right there that we that we can agree on all right so you'll get back to me somehow with with the yeah okay all right I'll da sometime when she's not teing Y no problem okay thank you anything else on sign ordinance Mr par you're up Le paint ordinance Okay so so uh the uh there was a Amendment to the lead paint lead based paint uh law that was enacted and U it put in require it's only rental properties let's start out with that doesn't involve the any kind of owners owned properties it only rental properties so that's the important thing um and uh it has requirements that houses um have to be inspected for uh lead paint um in the municipality there's a list of except s uh I I try to make it a little bit more understandable because frankly it's not some of it's difficult to kind of work through but I did work through it with the uh with the building inspector um and um basically I I gave you a summary with what said comments regarding the ordinance so basically this has to be enacted because it is the law and the municipalities have to do this and it has to these inspections have to be done by in July July by July of this year uh it starts um so um the or and I just had given you the ordinance to take a look at and the comments uh if there were any specific questions that that somebody needed to ask and if I don't have the answer we we could ask the building inspector uh but this is basically what the law says and um the uh the fee schedule that um I got I I actually tried to look around for uh other places that had this there aren't many yet there's some um but I I thought the ordinance that I did pick up on with these list of fees was something to be considered the building inspector looked at he thought they were they were very good he endorsed them um so uh again it's only the it's only rental properties it's not the home owners who are regular residents of the Town who have you know it's their houses these are rental properties so maybe what we do is if you have any questions you could email them to me um if I I'm I'm able to answer them by the next meeting that's fine if not I can reach out to the building inspector and get answers and what I'd like to do is have this on for first reading at the next meeting though because I do want to have it you know ready to go um even if it changes it can change but I want to have it in effect so that we don't run into a problem as we get you know further into the year if that's okay 10 quick question um it's talk we're talking about rental properties right right do and I think we had this back a couple years ago we're were talking about airbnbs that we had we did some type of ordinance with that or something corre uh you know I I remember it came up what we did with it I tried I don't remember either but you know how do we determine that you know I'm going to rent my house out to to another how do you there you go kids are left make some money um uh how do you determine that you know you have a a priv private residence to then well I think how do we determine it's a rental property yeah well let let me let me just say this um uh there are people I think who are renting who who have not disclosed that they're renting okay right uh and I every every property that that is identified as a rental property um you know it's tough for the building inspector to to figure out you know a prop a particular property that's being rented if it's not either advertised listed although so you you got that list of rentals didn't you yes I do did I send that to you yes yes she had a list of of we do have a list of of of of a fair amount of rental properties right yep yeah and all those will be inspected uh now if there are some that fall through the cracks you know it's almost like uh um you know people not getting permits when they're supposed to you know what I'm saying I guess my question is Sue how did you get that list they say I'm rting this place well it's it's that's what I'm asking believe it or not there state law from the DCA and there's a form that if you're renting out your property it's a non-owner occupied piece right and you have to me you have to register it with the down and I have a piece of paper because if you're if I'm the owner and I'm renting it to you right you need to know that I have this is my emergency this is my psng who provides me with the oil who provides me with the need all right all right I'm okay with and and by the way and by the way that's good but of course you always have the gray area of somebody who doesn't file it and and yeah doesn't mean everybody's going to do the right thing that's always that's always away okay we could ask when they're doing the reval like a secret question yeah you will miss property there you go right any other questions we all okay with them putting it on for the next meeting thank you overnight parking um I'd asked for this to be put on um a lot of our ambulance Corps members and our fire department members um have multiple cars in their driveways and you know jocking in cars during emergencies in the middle of the night um is a big problem I know Mr Sears would you don't have that problem because you don't have anybody at home right now but the families that do they're jocking cars around so I was asked to um ask the councel if we would consider on non snow emergency days or any days that the police department beans are not able to park on the street that they are able to park their emergency responder personal vehicle that that they're going to respond to either the Ambulance Corp the fire department I guess I don't know if the police they're more ship work but any Ambulance Corp member or fire department member to be able to park one vehicle on the street when it's a non- snow emergency or non-emergency Day by the police department in the street so in the middle of the night it would help our volunteers out a lot because then they don't have to jockey around cars that you know when family members come home late they got to go out redo the cars so they're the last in the driveway sometimes so they had asked if they were allowed to put one car in the street the council would entertain not every night but you know on on nights that you know that they're able to respond to be able to put one car in the street and we have to come up with some kind of sticker or something a decal a decal that I would identify these so I don't know what everybody's thought is on that two weeks ago I talked to Mark about it and talking to the police about it coming up with um solution obviously you can't have a commercial vehicle out there some have commercial you can't but their personal v i yeah I know of a couple of firemen do they drive their their commercial vehicle to the fires uh one does one but U so he may have to be the exception to the rule but everybody else would so U just waiting back from the police to see how we can you know changing the ordinance to allow one uh vehicle burn I think it's a big help they're volun they do a big service for us so any way we could help out to make their lives easier they gave me a list of Main Streets that to move they can't do it correct you know so so that that's my question it's not a We're not gonna put a Golden Ticket they they can't put it on benberg or Washington Washington it has if the street allows parking snow laws has snow laws or any emergency that the police department made that you can't get a permit that night they're not allowed to yeah I think is everybody okay with that makes sense especially if you have a one car driveway a lot of them yeah that's what they were complaining is like you know somebody gets home late they got to go outside in the middle of the night and move the cars around to put their car last and they don't leave in the morning then they got to go do it again so it's just and again it's not every it's not a not everyone can apply for you got be volunteer have four hey four more people we could help Mr Right four more people showing up for fire yeah or an ambulance first truck correct so there'll be no excuses now we would need direction of the police well that's what two weeks ago we we were talking to the police and they were looking's okay is going look into down at the beach they have the same problem with the the lifeguards that we have and they can't they have no parking I guess it's 200 ft from the end of the the beach down the shore oh oh beach beach and not Beach Street yeah yeah okay and um they have they give the lifeguards a plaer to put in their car they park it works out very well all right all right so everybody's okay so Mr Dar car I guess if you'll work on that Mr Mar you're okay with that yeah know it's it's a great idea um I think Ken will just find the appropriate wording to make it happen thank you Mr Alman you had put on the social media policy in OA yeah so uh because I was um at asked by the administrator to read the employee handbook and the other book uh I went through it and I guess I would like to understand what our social media policy is uh for employees who uh are answering questions in a professional uh related to their professional function or their the function that they're contracted to do for instance mayor Kari has a uh Facebook account that is flagged as mayor kalamari he may have a personal one with his pictures of his family and that's great but you know if he is answering uh one as mayor kalamari is that account subject to Oprah uh the second question is if he were to start answering as you know Peter Kari uh does that then become subject to Oprah because I have uh noted on occasion individuals who I believe are either contractors or employees of the town that are seem to be replying in a professional capacity and when I've opra their accounts I'm told that they're personal accounts and you can't uh we don't have access so you know the employee handbook or the uh the second handbook specifically talk about you know the possibility of these accounts being subject to Oprah and you know we're unable to obtain that so what is our policy and how do we enforce it God bless you thank you if if it's in I mean I have a working knowledge of Oprah but we're gracious enough to have our attorney here as well as Miss wowski who is our Oprah careful well careful depends if I'm on the receiving end of an Oprah or not careful um I'd like to defer to them as to what you know I mean someone must be responding to you saying that needs an exception an exemption right or exception okay so all right let's just let me just jump into it okay okay yes yes okay you falling asleep all right so yeah think so so Oprah I mean Oprah is the essence of Oprah is a is governmental record not opinion or or uh you know dissertations and things of that nature it's a governmental record and there's a pretty good definition of it in the you know in Oprah itself now yeah it it can extend to things that are outside the norm like a special document it could extend to things like uh you know emails and and things of that nature um so I mean if you the the request itself you know has to be fairly specific um you have to ask for the governmental record for a specific time period and and reasonably identify it I mean but that's that's the that's the essence if somebody said to me can I get somebody's entire Facebook account I mean off the top of my head I'd say no but of course I I go research it because there is the governmental records uh uh counil decisions uh regarding um you know Oprah I mean it was originally designed uh for for one thing obviously has expanded to you know a greater area so um I'd have to you know youd have to say what what specifically you're looking for um and we'd have to find out whether that's under the government the GRC um opinions whether that's covered or not covered or a court case one of the two if I forward you a couple of examples and again I guess if an individual is posting pictures of their vacation or you know they made uh hamburgers for Memorial Day I don't really give a crap about that and well that's that's not a governmental record yeah but if a person is responding to an inquiry and presenting themselves as making a official statement or the statement they make directly relates to their function within the town I think it's there certainly a gray area and if that is it is gray it's that but if that's the case you know there's instant messaging so you know can do we have access to those instant me messages okay well like I said there the GRC decisions and court cases so that's kind of what it is the the law itself you know or you maybe you don't know but the law itself is kind of Fairly Bare Bones very generic um and it really is in the application of it uh uh that has developed you know what's included in terms of Oprah or not so okay yeah I'll provide you with a couple of examples and we can go from there Mr Mr Roman um the GRC is very responsive to phone calls and they get back to you very quickly and they do have their stuff down to a u a science down there okay and I think you get an answer very quickly from them because I've called them numerous times and um I can give you this a couple people's direct number uh so I would suggest you call that for an answer that's an excellent idea right are you they they do have the answers and and they're the they're the envelope because they do they do uh what do you call them advisory opinions Ken I don't know techn and I'm sure there are several already out there but go back and say go to your turny yes that's exactly that's that's they do a lot it does it does but there are some you know there are there's already some case law out there um so are you requesting something that you know exists or that you think might exist uh just just so I understand what you're well that I think might exist or want to understand if you know communication that is being undertaken through Facebook instant messaging or messenger so that's essentially that's essentially email uh but it's through Facebook so if someone comes to me or sends me a message and asks me a specific question about a uh an ordinance and I answer and I reply you don't got to worry about that go build you know your uh fence 8 feet tall and if your neighbor complains that's fine so uh is that would that response me being a official of the town be something that is subject to Oprah because I've replied in that matter look at you Canen oh do look at me yes uh well let me say this if somebody was saying something with the authority of the government behind it uh and acting in the in the capacity and the authority that that person has yes it could be subject to Oprah um if they if they send something to U Michael Omen councilman and said I think that there should be an ordinance about the parking and you said something back I'm not so sure or maybe there should be is that Oprah is that a governmental record I don't think so so I mean again it's it's it's not absolute uh it depends on this the the the specific thing that you're talking about but it still has to be some sort of governmental record it's got to fall somehow in that category um and like I said it's it's a barebone statute and these these things these decisions that they've had over the years has expanded the and and and deepened its interpretation but it's very fact sensitive um I mean people ask for things all the time you know they don't specifically ask for you know a a uh um you know identifying thing that the that the responding party can the clerk can actually get a response to and she's going to write back it's not you know there none or there isn't any or it's not a not a governmental record and other things she'll you know she'll produce it have you made that request recently um I would have to look I have a quite a record with the cler can I make a suggestion now if if someone were to I mean again if it was your Facebook page and somebody would ask you a question regarding business I would say please send it to my you know I completely agree you know um that's the better way to do it because you know the one thing we've always learned as CL is there is if there is and some of you have gone through my searches where we asked for cell phone records and stuff like that you know um have ask um just a comment you know you also can't prevent people from reaching out to you via messenger it's one of those things it's just opened and they'll reach out to your personal so yeah the solution would be to just redirect them to you know Town email um there's also you know sometimes on some of these pages is you know a mom for example will just be asking a question that she can get the answer from quickly from a group of moms that may know the answer so it may come across as official but you you just happen to know that you know the library is having yoga on a Saturday so you just say something like that so it's I guess it would depend on the nature but sometimes we're just trying to be helpful about what's going on in town so that everybody can enjoy the services for the Oprah end something like that to me would not be an Oprah request because if you're you know like Mr Paul said it's a government record but if you're if somebody's requesting a conversation between you and let's say C Casio but it's on your personal Facebook and you're discussing business that's a different story you know what I'm saying that's where an Oprah person that's my fin line yeah you know but again that Oprah is very it's very you know who very very specc speciic you can't go fishing it's not a fishing Expedition so sometimes people are just trying to be helpful to others and you know do the same on a Saturday that you know offices are closed yep so something to keep in mind sometimes we're just trying to be helpful I have no problem with people being helpful but if it falls within if it falls Within Oprah it still needs to be available so you know you you and not you directly but use in a collective sense can answer whatever you want but if you reach a point in that discussion or you're answering in your official capacity then you know where do you draw the line in what's explorable and what's uh what can you ask for in terms of so I completely agree that people want to be helpful go to it you know all right any other discussion on this uh Daisy you had asked to zon board application process update you had provided us a application yes um I just created this draft um it's pretty basic it gives us an insight into who is interested in the position um you know to Mrs OS point before um in the last two years that I've been on Council we've always been informed of who was going who was applying or interested in the position so that's why it never came across as a need at least from my perspective so that's why you know I brought this to the attention of council and I just wanted to update you on um the draft that we put together um well that I put together and if Mr PA you can take a look and see if you know whatever the next step is I have no objections to the I mean I think it's very it's very good it's good basic yeah um and I left obviously XYZ so we can adjust as needed and who it's going to go to um so if you all agree I think this is something that will keep everybody you know open and honest moving forward I have no objection to it anybody else have any objection to it you had the next thing on Daisy mayor's ability to participate in discussions at Council meetings yes thank you so the first two me meetings you know have been um you know interesting challenging interesting and I I don't like that the mayor is unable to speak I understand that we have these rules um but I feel that especially in the first meeting when the mayor and and as a result also the administrator were not allowed to speak we were in a point where we could not hold a discussion we could not get our answers answered our questions answered and even some of the residents that came to that meeting as well as the the following meeting their answers their questions could not be answered um so I just feel that it's important that we allow everybody on the deis to speak freely and if that means that we need to adjust some of our our code or or the statutes of however it lays out I think it's important because just as you know council president de Senate councilman um Casio you were duly elected the mayor is also duly elected you know two years ago so he represents the interest of the residents at that point we want to be informed the Renaissance residents want to be informed and it's important that we offer him and everybody the opportunity to speak freely without being you know silenced or asked not to speak or not given the opportunity um he provides a lot of information he Pro provides a lot of clarity to our questions and it's difficult to make a decision if we don't know his perspective on what is taking place he runs the town he knows the projects that are out there so I want to know even if I don't like what is being said I want to know what he has to say so I think we need to conduct ourselves all of us in a respectful transparent way for ourselves for the residents so that we can make informed decisions and know exactly what is going on in our town good bad or indifferent so I would like to move forward and perhaps I I'm not sure who put these two pieces of paper it didn't say it wasn't me um regarding the municipalities and counties the statutes title 40 I I don't know who put this in the packet I put them in every because that you have a question and that's what the statute says State Statute so and I can heard about it and that's okay I didn't know it wasn't me just wanted to clarify it wasn't you and then um you know Part B of that statute says the mayor May attend meetings of council and may take part in discussions of councel so to me this reads that you know he should have the ability to speak and again it just it it calls for transparent cury and representation of our residents and we have to remember that we are public servants above all so let's move forward in you know proper behavior respect the same way we try to teach our own children let's respect other people's opinions even if they don't align with ours so that is why I wanted to put this on here so that we can do better let's do better thank you thank you you good yeah you know it been around a long time seen a lot of crazy things come off this day you know it's it's never good when we're in Conflict uh Steve you remember the years are CH conflict and I I think if we all be stable and let's let's do the positive thing for the community like like M says um sometimes it's difficult you know like but it's understandable that you know we're all human we all have that click point and uh I think going forward you know both of them bring a lot of information to this commit I mean they they're asking you questions and we have to go to them for the answers you know and you know respect is respect and I think let's just move forward and positive we got a lot of things coming up this year absolutely you know and I think we all could do it we we really could anything else Mr not on that subject okay uh last thing on the agenda Township development construction notification requirements Mr Alman asked for this to be put on um yeah so I guess uh there was some work being done at the commuter lot uh and it involved tree work and it it was done on a early Saturday morning and the only reason I was aware of it is a resident uh she sent an email and she also posted a concern on Facebook and I had gone over to the residents to see what she was referring to and you know the tree company was still in her I guess not in her backyard it was in the commuter lot but they were removing they had removed some significant trees uh they had uh trimmed up some significant trees uh they had um I guess cut back some of the retaining wall exposing the roots uh so they could uh build a retaining wall I guess it was a wasn't initially a retaining wall initially it was a a slope uh a uh dirt slope and I understand uh that the town can really do what they want uh they're you know they are not governed the same way in terms of how they develop what they develop and where they develop but at the same time I think we want to try to be good neighbors uh we want you know uh this these residents to know that had a row of mature trees on their back of their house and half of them are gone and they're the rest of them you know will probably die off I've had I have experience on my personal property where if you uh disturb the roots enough whatever is left is going to die eventually and as far as in my conversation with her she was not notifi ified that this was happening uh it came as a surprise that uh you know she woke up and they were taking down a tree um or trees and I think that we should try to do a little better uh in those instances and maybe we did and maybe she didn't get the notice or maybe she got the notice and threw it in garbage and like uh some of us do with the male thinking it's junk but you know uh I I do think that we should try to uh measure up to what our residents are required to do so if it's to send a 200 foot notice and let them know that this is going to occur that they can't stop it but at least they know and they might have some influence in the discussion I think that would benefit our residents and it would you know take some of the uh the rub out of some of the projects that we do that don't that do encroach on them uh for the betterment of the Town Council president if you don't mind if no um it's we agree I agree with you I you know I validate what you said um that Resident that day I think reached out to a lot of people um myself being one the mayor being one um you know usually I'm right on top of the emails the mayor was actually first that day um and he called me and asked me to contact the resident so I think I was speaking with her about 8:30 or 9:00 that morning um listening to her concerns so at the preconstruction meeting um you know I I made it perfectly clear and was adamant about the resident notifications and everybody knew um and then I was involved on you know reviewing the letter when it was going out from Bosell engineering and hindsight I would have loved to have said this is going to happen this is going to happen this is going to happen this is probably going to happen this might happen you know you know I can bet that this is going to happen you know so you know I'm essentially being sarcastic but in hindsight everything's 2020 so we did notify them um unfortunately just said you know there's going to be drainage work and you know a you on um and when I I was met with her and I also spoke to Anthony matina from matina and Sons the contractor that day to find out what was going on so I promised her an inperson um meeting with myself and John kimik the the engineer uh for the project um Monday morning and we met with her and her neighbor and they B up their concerns which were validated and agreed upon she she absolutely should have been told that a tree was being removed so half her trees I don't know if you were exaggerating for the sake of of you know explaining but one tree was due to be removed and a larger tree you're absolutely right the roots were damaged due to the Excavating of the um for the retaining wall and you know unfortunately for this contractor he's learned his lessons in another town that cost him $300,000 and you know the liability God forbid that tree fell so that's why they got the cruise in there on Saturday to take down the tree and again would have been great if we were able to give a knock on the door or you know this is what's happening this is how we you know plan to remediate it um but by time the end of that day we listen to both um both residents where they were coming from validated their concern and also promised you know some some mediation some mitigating you know whether it's putting back some trees or some green Giants um to give her some shade that she was mostly concerned about um you know and talking to John and certainly not ridiculing the resident for her stance but you know John explaining because you know these situations are difficult you know half the residents are going to be upset that you took down their tree and the other half are going to be happy because it could have fallen on the house at at one time so um in hindsight and lesson learn absolutely right the resident was right um and we told her that and um we're also going to going to make sure that we you know I can't replace a 20 year old trade um unless you know find that Som um but uh we will do our best to give her some shade back and privacy um and some you know get her restore her a little bit that perfect Mr really quick the plans when I met with the resident show a curb back there not a wall is that a change order no the plans that are on the town website for that parking lot it shows that back as a curve as far as I'm aware that the wall was always um plan that maybe we have an older set website there could I mean there could um but even in the pre construction meeting we discussed most likely we're not going to be able to find block that has that same gray so again I you know I'm just saying on the website it shows it shows a curve not retaining there's there's no change okay thank you anything else motion to adjourn anything on closed there's nothing on closed no motion to adjourn motion second second all in favor I thank you everyone