19 for me e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening everyone welcome to the special public meeting of April 15 2024 of the township of Washington Township Council adequate notice of this meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act by the Township Clerk to at least two newspapers on March 28th 202 for and this notice has been posted on the township bulletin board and on the township website would everyone please stand for a salute to the flag I pledge alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the repu for it stands one nation under God indivisible with Li and justice for all roll call councilman cassum yes here yes I'm here councilman sear here councilman om man here Council BL here council president to sen here let the record reflect also in attendance mayor Peter calamari administrator Mark de Carla who will be right back he is not on his seat I know that John corkran Susan wowski Township Clerk can I have a motion to open the uh public portion of the meeting up so move second second all in favor hi there is no one in the audience tonight is there anybody on Zoom no give it one second motion to close the public comment period of the meeting second all in favor thank you discussion shared service agreement Municipal Court with Saddle River mayor calamari and Mr De Carlo excuse me Mike before you go through that I say it's not on the agenda but it looks like there's a small PSA for tonight yes you are you are correct okay yeah it wasn't y bet you moved it yes public service announcement for April 15 2024 the township second annual spring into Wellness 5K run walk and health fair will be taking place on Saturday April 27th please visit our website for further information and sponsorship application the township Washington has launched the Hometown Heroes Banner program as a living tribute for our community to honor past and present members of the Armed Forces please visit our website for further information Jo join the township of Washington Green Team at the DPW on Saturday April 20th from 9:00 a.m. to 12:30 for our free tree seedling giveaway this event is this event is open to Township presidents limited quantities first come first serve the next special council meeting will be held on Wednesday April 17th at 7 p.m also uh the 7th annual opening day ceremony for Washington Township baseball and soft wall will be on Saturday April 20th beginning at 9:00 a.m. the ceremony starts at 10: hope to see everybody there for hamburgers hot dogs and Socia peppers did you say 70 7 7 Z wow impressive yes that's awesome Mr also in attendance Mr Ken par so the shared service agreement Municipal Court with Saddle River mayor Kari and de Cara uh thank you council president good evening everyone uh ultimately I just want to tell you what we're ultimately looking forward and I'll give you a quick recap and fill you in um the mayor and I are looking from the buyin uh basically Authority from the council to go to a shared service agreement with um Saddle River for Clerk's violations right now uh with the ultimate desire to do a more intens of um all more all-inclusive shared service agreement come the new year uh now to come with the background um an employee recently resigned uh to go to employment to another town this employee worked here total of 35 hours uh but it was a combination of two different jobs so during the week she worked 20 hours in the purchasing department and did 15 hours as uh the clerk violations uh at the Municipal Court window right outside the hall as you know we already have a shared service agreement with the court administrator with Saddle River that was for the court administrator this is for the violations clerk uh so soon as um that individual resigned we let everybody know and I started working with Janine and the mayor um of course with the police uh police chief's input as well what we're going to do in the meantime which of course led to possible uh shared services for the court um clerk for for the violations clerk so right now uh what's happening is um our court administrator is acting as both the court administrator and the violations clerk right now till we have a plan you know a further plan in place the woman that was doing it prior Biola was working 130 to 4:30 every afternoon and then 11: to 1:30 on Fridays essentially came out to about 15 hours um our court administrator isn't able to give all of that time but is trying to be here um most of the week during those hours so so it's not interrupted for uh people that need business there uh at the window so it was never open uh during the morning hours anyway it was always in the afternoon we're uh we're hoping to have uh the further plan in place by May 1st by May 1st we're hoping to close down this window and send everybody to the violations window in U Saddle River that will take that will stay in place until we hopefully get your approval enter into a shared service agreement um with Saddle River so essentially Saddle River is going to pick up our slack from May 1st until whenever we have a shared service agreement if that's what we go with the shared service agreement um this at this point would just look like this paying for the services of a violations clerk however it would be saddle River's employee so Saddle River would hire the person we would um provide whatever that salary is plus the 7.26 5 for FICA which is Medicare and Social Security um essentially what we do for the court administrator we pay quarterly on a voucher system we're looking to do 15 hours at $21 an hour for the violations clerk I know we're not that portion of the uh of the budget I'll be able to explain more how it would impact our budget um but right now uh that's what we're looking to do all all of the current appointments would remain the same so in the beginning of the year we appointed the judge the prosecutor um the council appointed the public defender nothing would change with that as we move into the new year and again let's say we can get this in place for June 1st from June 1st to the end of the year we'd have the ability to to really do the research and see how much cost savings there would be how we could make this work for to be in place during um during the new year and that's where we see I wouldn't say significant cost savings but where I can show you cost savings would be for the new year so excuse me car so from June 1st or May 1 if you got a ticket you would need to go to aado to pay that ticket yes or you could still do it online I'm saying but but if you wanted to bring it in hand which some people still do I believe right yes you'd have to go River well you keep it's just Saddle River I'm sorry not yes okay thank you you're welcome um let's see what else is there to tell you oh so for the appointments again on so the judge is appointed on a threee term and then the prosecutor public defender appointed every year we could still maintain our judge and our prosecutor just because we go to shared services does not mean um we have to go to saddle Rivers you know respective individual in that spot so we still have control over those things this is right this isn't a consolidation it's it's just shared services so we'd still have our own ticket books we would still conduct our own court but it would all be done at Sal river is there any is there any discussion of having them take it over like what the savings would be if they just take it all over or they don't have the ability to do that for for complete consolidation yes we haven't had that discussion CU it's very much more involved so it would be like the joint courts of Washington Township and S river which is much more intensive to accomplish than it is a shared service okay so basically all you would be doing is eliminating that at our location moving it to s yes essentially yeah but we'll explore all the options and okay come to council with updates that's fine um I don't know what be the appropriate language but is it like a you guys call A what is it thumb Pole or straw pole straw pole to see if you know for us to start working on the shared service agreement to go in that direction they're handling our violations right now correct no or who is so right now the court administrator comes here during the week when she can during the time frame that Viola would have been here from that 1:30 to 430 she still also has to come here to run court so we run Washington Township's Court twice a month from here the only ones that are in here are her and the judge it's still remote we're shooting for May 1st for our window the violations window to be shut down and what would transpire at this window to happen at the window in Saddle River that they're going to do for us as a courtesy until we got the shared service agreement into effect so the only thing we'd be doing is moving violations clerk up there but Court would still be here I for the immediate future yes while we're exploring the other but I'm saying but court would still be in Township correct I I well I don't want to disagree with you but I think the plan was see that there's also like Bergen County court that oversees our vinage that has to give us permission to do all this stuff so not until a shared service agreement is in effect can we like totally move over files and stuff so that the mayor was wrong but yes so in May 1st the violations would be there I'm expecting Court to still be held here but once we have the shared service agreement then we go there then everything would be operating yeah okay I just didn't want anybody to think so same with different words yeah okay so then you want a straw pull correct yeah just just to make sure there's no objection to the concept I'm okay I'm okay with it anything to save money and shared service is always a hopefully a cost savings measure I'm okay do we know if it's going to save money well that's what I'm going to make sure as long as it's a cost saving measure and not going to cost us more that's that's one thing definitely not going to cost us more I just can't say it's going to be like 3,000 right now 4,000 right now when we get into the budget yes it is going to save us a little bit like you know on office supplies or uh you know Furniture yeah I was going to say there could be indirect savings like that also in addition to direct savings yeah but it's not going to cost us more money and you're not agreeing to it tonight just giving me the direction it's either an Abol no and then I won't even you know try to move forward with the I don't want to call it negotiations there's really not much to negotiate but work on the shared service agreement to ultimately bring to you um with the exact costs things like that but it's really I don't want to oversimplify it it's really just paying for that person's salary right now and we would we would do it like just like we do the court administrator we would pay it on a quarterly basis so I would ask you to fund that line when we get to it with the amount that I believe we're going to need is the admin so today temporarily the administrator is acting as the clerk yes just for a very short window when the shared service is put in place if it is would they be two distinct people or is it still no be two distinct people be so they would hire so it would be S River's employee parttime and they would hire a clerk so do they not have a clerk they do not have a clerk no okay so the the one person handles both yes but if it if she if the position had to accommodate Two Towns they feel it would yeah require two diff two individuals yes okay I'm okay with Mr Dar Carlo looking into it anybody else have any yes Mr C I said Mr Alman okay thank you we'll work on that thank you we will continue with the 2024 budget discussion uh we're going to go through the pages uh to to to the going to handle the uh closed from last meeting so um we have uh floating staff is our first one on page uh one one right yes sta is on page one can going to kill me hopefully the first yeah you're going to really love me up with that I was going to ask you to at a certain point if we could readdress this line only because of the moving around with the Court violations if you wanted to either give me the time now or skip it so we don't hold up the rest of it um whichever whichever you decide but I probably would need a good 15 minutes to I'm G he's really good I'm going to confuse you guys a little bit but try to tell you how we're going to fix it so there's not a problem right now but um I just wanted to see if you wanted to me to go into the big long story now or if you want to skip it so not to hinder your progress with the other lines and come back to it well we got to come back may as well get it over now all right perfect so the floating staff even though I know we from the other day we went from 38,700 to 37,500 correct so this this is what I wanted to bring to your attention so we're going to correct it even it wasn't that it was being done incorrect but again there's better ways to doing it and I see that this time so the floating staff position included byola which was she left that she was the violations Clerk and she was also the purchasing part-time right so she was making last year 37,500 you guys had tensively approved to go up to 40,000 I believe when we were in closed session for that position a portion of the salary was coming from floating staff that's where I came up with that odd number it's like 16528 16528 right that would be that would be this year's ask so last year it was you know probably $2,500 less if you go all the way to the back to municipal court and I appreciate you being patient because you're going to go to page 63 okay Court Administrator right right so look at last year's approved rate I don't have an answer why why it's only 16646 but we asked for $23,000 and11 so if you add that $ 2311 wait a minute I have I have Municipal Court Court Administrator is 45,000 I'm sorry violations clerk I apologize oh violations clerk okay yes I see that was 23472 right so you you take $3,111 and you add to what I had requested in my note last year in floating staff that together would equal 37,500 where Mr alman's going to go get upset with me is we didn't need all the 203,000 in violations clerk line the council knew last year how we were doing the math quote unquote but between those two lines it equal 37,500 because it was one employee that's how we did it so I asked them to just keep the funding at 23,000 and it was less money I'd have to ask in floating staff when we were in closed last week we all agreed that it would be easier for everyone if I split the lines for floating staff so my intention is when when we're done to have floating staff tax office floating staff purchasing department and then the municipal Alliance coordinator right so right now those three positions are in floating staff so if you take Viola's salary for last year of 37,500 total of18 hours she essentially was making $20.60 an hour so we're now going to have to um advertise for a purchasing assistant for 20 hours a week and at a minimum we wanted to do $20.60 and again if I if I remember correctly you guys had approved for her to go up to 40,000 which would have essentially been like $21.97 now I understand this would be new employee so if we didn't use but we didn't talk about a purchasing assistant last meeting we now you're talking about a whole another no you did you did no we talked about a temporary staff which was we had 15808 for viola right Mar Al 165 I'm sorry I'm sorry Mary Alice was was 16 it was 15808 correct yes right 5,000 for um Municipal Y and then 16520 was the um that was Viola that's purchasing department assistant hold on did um Mary Alice and Viola I don't think I think she's given up her right but did Mary Alice ask for close session I I don't know if she did but but again based on what Mr Paul said unless we plan on talking about them in close we don't have to rewrite notice but I can talk about the position rather the person okay let's not talk about performance right just want to make sure right befe as of as of as of this year Mr Alman Mr par has changed his mind and we don't have to rise them okay so we're in 2024 par mode versus previous po mode okay wasai Mr Po is shaking his head because I you've always told us we've had to race everybody let me just say one thing I don't like the term changed anybody's mind well you did because okay the law changed and what our procedures were changed and therefore it is changed that's what changed not that I just changed my mind because I have out a blue shirt uh but you did it changed it changed the law changed and and the situation changed okay as long as we have you on the record that that's your opinion that's all that's fine I have no problem with that okay so the 16528 was associated with um violations right no well no it was associated with purchasing who happen to be the same person as violations and the 15808 is violations no 15 I wish I have it Castell here I told you I was going to confuse you I will take the blame I will take the blame 15808 is tax tax assistant tax assistant so in part of what I explained in violations and correcting the organization of this we would like to at least try to bring in a purchasing assistant at $21 an hour to attract a qualified candidate that is willing to work only 20 hours it will not be a full-time position therefore they will not um be able to have the benefit of health benefits so 20 hours at $21 an hour comes to $20,000 160 like if Mr Mr councilman can just help me help follow along with that 20,160 so now we'll talk about the tax assistant inclosed you were gracious enough to go from $18 to $19 an hour for that person just hear me out on this I just want you to hear it from this uh U an understanding standpoint and then then use it to make your decision the person and no one has complained this is just something I identified this afternoon um and then brought it to the to the mayor's attention so if we brought in a new purchasing assistant they would walk in at $21 an hour and the person that's in the tax office that's been here 11 years would be making $19 an hour even though it's a gracious um raise from 18 to 19 so what I would ask is not to to create Equity I wouldn't ask you to reduce the 21 down to 19 for a purchasing assistant because we want to attract someone but I would ask you gener if you would generously consider bringing the tax assistant from 19 to 21 it will be why don't we bring them both to 20 and then they'll be even at the same number before I agree can I finish my uh because I might have something to tell it giving going from 19 to 21 will only be and again I know every dollar counts I do and I don't say that sarcastically but it would only be an addition of about $1600 to bring that person because they work about $832 hours a year so the extra $2 would bring them up to like 1,600 that way we would have Equity um I think it's a fair position the DPW seasonals can go up to 22 hours and I fully respect what they do because they're on the back of a truck offen in elements that are rain cold you know uh you know hot um these individuals are directly working with money and you know I feel that that um deserves some consideration in that part so if that's the case I would ask for just hear me out I would ask for 20,160 for purchasing 16,128 for tax $5,000 for the um Municipal Alliance coordinator the two Grant coordinators that would bring it to a total for that line 41,021 and then I would just ask you for $420 on top of that that would cover 20 extra dollars I'm sorry 20 extra hours for that tax assistant that we talked about last year I'm sorry last meeting that stays a couple extra hours so generally work 16 hours but during the tax grace period we'll work a couple more hours that extra $420 would give me 20 hours at $21 an hour bringing that total line to $1,708 but wait there's a drop the last s for savings on this one because the Municipal Court Clerk right now is 23472 and I can bring that down to 15,500 so overall with all those considerations you made between the two lines there would be an overall Savings of about $3,500 um I can answer any questions I appreciate you listening to me um what did you say is the drop for the violations cor so violation cler because I have to I have to account for the salary that was already paid out right and with estimating um 15 hours a week at $21 an hour in Saddle River on top of what we've already paid out this year I could we could drop that line to 15,000 500 that would get us through what we've already paid the little bit of break and then so you want to drop that number from 23472 to 155 155 yes and then increasing the floating line from 375 to 417 708 between the two lines would still give us a savings um of about somewhere I forget the number somewhere between like 3,300 and $3500 overall so can the municipal Alliance is going to continue to receive 2500 $500 one of those disappears next year yes so next year would only be 2500 unless of course we get another Grant or something I come back to you for 2500 but for this year it's 5K it's five corrent the tax at the moment is 15808 1508 you're asking us to consider something but at the moment it's 15808 right and I want to go to 16128 plus the 420 for extra hours so it would be 16128 plus 420 16548 16548 yes and what is the proposed purchasing 20,160 because again I have to account for what was already paid there's little bit of a break you know hopefully we're going to get somebody soon but that'll allow me to pay them 21 hours $21 offer $21 an hour why don't we just offer both of them $20 an hour and and then we don't have an addition in so my view and again it's comes from a point of view in the private sector is you're always falling behind uh you know at the end of my career at the bank I was hiring after 20 years I was hiring firste people that were making as much absolutely base salary as I was not total comp Bas salary yeah because times Chang time change you know there is a there's a decision to be made as an employee um you know are you comfortable with that there's a a balance you know there's a short commute there's uh preferable hours there's any number of things that keep you in one job verse another to me you know if we're going to start talking about equity and not just these two positions but then you have to apply Equity much broader and you know if we want to keep if the feeling is that we should be hiring at the top and we should be or near the top or market and we should be paying near Market or at the top then you know we can do away with this schedule and you know we're going to be looking at large increases you know every year and I I I appreciate it I appreciate the background and the explanation for the particular line but I think it opens up you know other discussions and pressures on our salaries to go up and I don't know if they all need to go up do you mind if I respond to that um I I agree with your reasoning for Equity but in this circumstance I'm only looking at the equity between those two positions because they're very similar you but you have but you have you have the same disparity in other positions like people were just hired last year and you have people that have been working here 10 12 years and the new person is making almost $18,000 more which is what the fair market value is in 2024 but the person that was hired 14 years ago whatever it was is $14,000 below that person and we'll never catch that person unless we go to a broad statement like Mike just made that then we have to review everybody and then we're going to we're not going to be able to afford our employees because if we bring everybody up to you know close proximity it's going to be an issue and I agree but again I'm using these two positions because they were in the same line they're very similar you know they're part-time employees they're not full-time employees so where're we're talking about $1,600 as opposed to whether it's 10,000 or 12,000 because you know Mr Alman explained that it's it happens it's not a Washington Township exclusive problem but you also have but you also have the other the other adage where a lot of the a lot of the the the people that these assistants are working for have been granted larger raises to bring them to market value and should need less assistance because now you're higher up in the food chain so you're expected to do more yeah and you know that's that's the other that's the other issue you have so you know we don't have ranges you know the only thing I think that has a range is the seasonal DPW employee yeah but I'm saying in the in the past few years you know the previous councils have tried to bring everybody up into fair market value so some people got a big increase in in salary based on that yeah so you know so but here's the other thing that the tax office looking at it historically was receiving this tax office assistant was receiving 2% increases in line with the the full-time Department people so 2% on $17 you're talking 20 so that's why I think we would be correcting um correcting that by by if you guys made this move and also you know again it's going to come out sarcastic but is the answer for us not to correct anything because we'd have to do a very big correction and just rhetorical because I don't want it to sound sarcastic but I think we have done a good job and you have done a good job in bringing people up to you know market value would everybody love to get more money of course but I'd love to see and hopefully all of you would love to see people um do that but again these part-time jobs are not easy to attract people because there's no benefits to them you know they generally have to come in still five days a week work work a few hours like I said nobody's complaining we you know the May and I thought it was right to bring it to your attention give you the facts and you know I we're hoping that you go for the $21 an hour for both um and you know that's the best we can do ask you for your consideration thanks Mr to Carl so right now as it stands the line is 37,500 yeah I did I did the math both ways so it's a cost savings if we restructure it as Mr Dar Carlo is saying it's a 3,7 $64 savings total corre does that sound correct correct okay yeah because you're going to on line 63 you're going to deduct the the 7,9 7,9 and uh 79 $ 7,972 correct correct so it's when you add when you add the the differential to from the 7972 you come with a net Savings of 3674 6 is that what it was 3764 I'm sorry I got to back yeah 3764 yes and that would equiz both positions of purchasing and tax assistant and there's another indirect um cost savings because we're reducing from a full-time employee to a part-time employee we're saving the health benefits cost and that was a family plan so again it's it's an indirect savings but again we we're not going to be able to do it you know listen 375 is a salary it's not the best salary but we were able to attract attention to it because it did come with Benefits where this one doesn't so there you know there's a little bit of trade-off again that you know that's my um those are my supporting facts I appreciate you listening you hopefully you you uh all agree for the 21 and 21 um and thank you I'll be quiet do you have a rough estimate of what that savings is on the insurance on the health benefits it's significant I mean you know I I'd have to look through stuff I don't like throwing out numbers but it it's a lot five figures right definitely oh yeah oh no it's more than 10 grand you know CU a I'll I'll make a motion to fund this line item for 41,500 I want to just make it even numbers I'm not giving it $288 because to the cost so you can figure that out now but I'll make a motion for this for 40120 100060 for 41,500 as long as we reduce line 40143 49019 to 15,500 do I have a second so I'm sorry I'm I want to make this one 41,500 so you're just cutting into the extra hours that he's requesting correct yeah we'll we'll just have to make it work I mean that's but for the salary ordinance are you guys is everyone okay with me referencing $21 an hour for both those possessions yeah cuz you'll have enough with the 415 but we're as long as we take this 7,972 away from page 63 that's what I'm that's what we're going to do next but so I'll make a motion for 41500 requested 41500 recommended 40120 1000160 do I have a second I'll second thank you very much very much appreciated councilman cassium yes councilman Sears yes councilman Elman no council woman bz yes and council president desum yes thank you page 63 4143 49019 the new request is 15,500 the new recommend is 15,500 for a reduction of 7972 I'll make the motion to a second second roll call councilman yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council valz yes council president to Senate yes can you give me the total on that line uh line on page 63 will now be 15,500 for a net reduction of $ 7,972 all right second one was uh page six Township Clerk it is 41201 120110 98838 requested 98838 recommended to have a motion so moved second we're page six page so we're just we just we got to go we got to go through the list of all the closed stuff we did so we got we did the straw poll CL but now we got make through that list first so we had a motion for y and a second I need a second second roll call councilman Casio no council um yes councilman Omen yes Council bz yes council president to sen yes the next one is Chief Financial Officer page nine it is uh 40120 130 130 75406 requested 75406 recommended do I have a motion some move second I'll make you second it m I'll second it roll call councilman coun no councilman Sears yes councilman Elman yes Council woman bz yes council president to senum yes Finance director was a reduced to 900 40120 13014 it's right below it um does typo on the page number it's also page oh sorry page nine my bad uh it's reduced to 900 do I have a motion so moved I'll second it roll call councilman cassum yes councilman Sears no councilman om man yes Council valz no council president sen yes the next one is on page 13 the tax assessor it is um 40120 15011 0 26,1 requested $226,100 recommended do I have a motion some move second roll call councilman CIO yes councilman Sears yes councilman Alman yes Council W bz yes council president Des yes the next one is on page 21 for the zoning [Applause] officer zoning officer 40211 85120 26925 96 requested 26926 recommended do I have a motion so move second roll call councilman cassum no councilman sear yes councilman Alman yes Council one bz yes council president Des senum yes next one is um page 23 UCC head Ta on page 23 pre seing the next page um head ta is 41221 95 uh one 180 53093 requested 53093 recommended do I have a motion so move second that's combining that's combining two lines it's combining the business owning liaison plan on and eliminating the following line so the following line will become zero once we get to it yes yes I'm sorry councilman serious motion I'm sorry second was Daisy was sorry so give me a total on that one 53 $93 and then we're going to reduce the following line by 8,160 roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Olman yes councilman bz yes council president to yes Planning and Zoning Le aison 41221 95185 8160 requested 8160 recommended we are making it zero do I have a motion for zero for both so move second roll call councilman Cassio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes councilwoman bz yes council president Des yes last one is on page 46 the health registar [Applause] it is um 41 27330 130 2550 requested $2 2550 recommended do I have a motion so do you have a second second R call councilman cassum yes councilman Sears yes councilman om man yes Council W bz yes council president to sen yes okay now we go to the next list for employees right no well well no why don't you go back to the beginning of well not the beginning but where you need to pick up and go forward again because this is going to be a combination of open and close well I'm going to get the hit the open right so all salaries now yeah just keep going with salaries right we'll keep going with the salaries on the open list so the first one is the police records Clerk um which is on I got to find the page I'm sorry there's no page Sor pag on under police police record somewhere 26 it looks like 25 5 of 26 26 yep 26 252 40180 police records Clerk right at the bottom of page 40125 24180 5,225 requested 50, 2205 recommended that's a 2% raise Mr darar yes sir this employee Works 35 hours in the office every week yes sir and just I don't did do we have to vote to talk on it or start talking oh motion I'm sorry motion have a motion second second yes um so I'm sorry question was is this person in the office uh 35 hours a week yes and they don't work remotely correct they do not work remotely and thank you to Mr wowski for putting this together last minute but on the day um you should have had an email from Chief calamari who was unable to attend tonight uh there is a paragraph at the bottom of page one regarding um the performance of this individual and then a company this is the job classifications for communications officer when we get to that but I believe in my job classifications if you need it there is a um there is a tab for records assist I'm sorry police assistant Administrative Assistant if you want to look at the job classifications of this individual so the record clerk falls under a different job classification so we should update that in the uh in the that's what he named it let me see what I have it named in my job classification I probably have it police Administrative Assistant but let me just find it priz order gets op it's in alphabetic did you find it yes police Administrative Assistant it's in the peas it's after Plumbing sub code official if you come to that so what is this the same person yes so it the chief of police and his email wait is this this is open right obviously yes so this is referring to Leanne ' Conor yes in Chief calamari's email he called her the records cler she is technically the police Administrative Assistant that's what the job classification we have Mr corpin or whoever would change these classifications re reclassify this as the budget you're talking about yeah in the budget line yeah I'm saying in the line in the line it shouldn't say records Clerk then should say police Administrative Assistant absolutely yes I I can do that even I'm sorry I wasn't catching what you putting down any discussion ladies and gentlemen no I'll motion for the 50 we did right yeah we motion do discussion right now so we have a motion in a second right yep any further discussion Mr Alman see you just about to say something I was just reviewing the RO the job description excuse me that's fine no no no comment no other the comments roll call counc cassum obain councilman seers yes 26 yes councilman Alman yes Council will valz yes council president Des senum yes thank you the next one on the list uh is [Music] um Dan Dan scary Recreation superintendent director of DPW I don't know where that would be Recreation uh his first one is going to be on the recreation salary that's pretty far down to it's after DPW uh page start off page 49 uh no uh the director's on 39 if you want 39 is you want to go to the director first oh okay okay 39 is director correct 37 38 39 26 29194 two from the bottom 40126 290 194,00 requested 1800 recommended do I have a motion moov second discussion um yeah has this fall into this the same thing that we had with the other position we took it down to n because they're employee and a director of the same yeah can talk up please sorry does this fall under the same scrutiny as the other line where we had someone who was employed by the town and also a director and reduce that to 900 but it's a different department it's Recreation and not DPW stuff might be to me it that doesn't matter to me the reason I made that recommendation was it's essentially the same job or he's ESS managing or directing himself or the role is directing itself I don't Recreation and DPW I don't feel cross anywhere so that that's my explanation as to why I wouldn't ask understood but my my feeling is they're they're employed by the town whether it's the same uh department or not it's still the same issue just like I have the issue with um the attorney where he's director and also employed by the town and he doesn't he doesn't draw that Sal we can do that one we get well I'm just saying it's to me it's the same same thing okay so the motion right now is for 1,800 and 1800 and the discussion is Mr Cassie would like to reduce it anybody else want to reduce it right Mr C you'd like to reduce it I would like to reduce it to the same was the other one to N I think the other was 900 that's correct so you already have a motion on the floor for 1800 any other discussion just I know Steve is making a point for consistency and I appreciate that but uh only because uh I think Dan and the DPW is a little more public uh my experience with him as director has always been positive so same I I would think if he was if he was if he was director of recreation then I would tend to agree with you Mr Casio that's okay but since it's director of DPW not Recreation then I I would I would vote 900 all the way through if it was the same position that's okay and I think some of them you know I can understand your position okay roll call councilman Casio no councilman Sears yes councilman om man yes councilman bz yes council president to send him yes hold on one second um his next line be page 49 48 uh this was on page 39 was 26 29194 DPW that was DPW director yep got it okay and now what's the next one is for uh Recreation superintendent which is on page what 48 48 Mr yes sir sorry middle page 48 in the middle Recreation superintendent 40128 37110 increase in work hours from 15 hours to 20 hours the recommend is 26923 the request is 26923 the recommend is 26923 do I have a motion so move second any discussion uh just if you want me to just fill you in where I came up with that number so you know the note there it increased from 15 hours to 20 hours and essentially this is to pay him for the time he's here he is consistently without a doubt here more than 15 hours a week he's very thorough individual he's very well thought out um before he makes his decisions and as Council can probably attest he's doing his job outside of this office he's a Community member he's well involved with sports organizations and whether it's directly or indirectly he's almost like a um like I'm trying to think of an equivalent name but like you know he is out in the public all the time representing the township representing what he does as director of recreation and um that's why we'd like to bring him up he was one of the ones we identified one of the three people we identified as as outside that 2% increase um and that the number specifically coincides with what the zoning officer is making and what the code enforcement officer is making that's where that specific number of 26 9323 came from so to summarize I'm asking us to pay him um for the hours he's actually here rather than what it said on the uh the salary chart well worth it we all know I don't I don't have to go on and on and on so thank you for hearing me out any further discussion ladies and gentlemen I would say he works definitely more than than 20 hours okay I want disagree just just the increase in our summer Recreation and it's unbelievable the amount of calls he gets on a daily basis now that this is kicking in 600 kids and he also does besides that it's the reimbursement of certain people they don't want to go to the zoo they want to reimburse that money he spends a lot of time working on that also so he is out there personally I think you may have put out a trip that doesn't exist Mr be careful there is no zoo trip I didn't pay for that and if there is I'm in deep trouble you missed it yeah that's I'm saying I'm in deep trouble for don't they go to Turtle back not not this year I don't think so summer camp yeah thought so any further discussion just um so I don't disagree with many of the comments um I guess my question is is we I believe are compensating a I don't know if it's on the list the summer wreck P director yes you know um I guess I view that compensation uh they should be absorbing a lot of this uh that we say is going [Music] to uh Mr scary so you know acknowledging he's working but at the same time uh is the person in the summer wreck uh not not that they're not working but are they not absorbing the responsibilities of that program they are um and again I don't want this to sound sarcastic but part of my um support for him to get the raise didn't have anything to do with the summer camp so bringing that up actually I'm apprecia of it helps me but um Dan oversees that so even though there's the summer camp director you know Dan's the one that's on him get me the agenda get me the budget so it can be reviewed so he has supervision over it maybe not day-to-day supervision as the the summer camp director and the assistant director of summer camp um but Dan definitely has um supervisory and Leadership over that program um if that helps hopefully that answered your question the the other question I have and it goes back to a discussion we had on at the last meeting is if individuals are working this much time this much overtime where is that overtime so remember part part-time well no one isn't none of the non-union workers are entitled to overtime but especially not a part-time um worker so and Mr car I um I'm going to make a general statement cuz I don't know the specifics but um if you are working you get paid that's the law so if if 15 hours wasn't enough you know there needs to be a study and I see you're bumping him up to 20 but even outside of this there there's no in my opinion there's no such thing as you don't get paid for overtime if your work if the role requires you to work in excess of the hour scheduled and there's an acknowledgement that you're working you need to be paid and it's not you know this is not a personal opinion That's the Law I believe I mean I I don't disagree I don't so so but you the policy that you just stated is in direct contravention of that well I I don't think so because you asked me about overtime so he doesn't he's not working overtime overtime is over 40 hours a week but does that our employee handbook address overtime from n yes yes it does it does it does for non what non-union employees because Mr D made a statement that only Union employees are eligible for overtime correct is that yeah essentially the DPW and the police department well you know what I guess I should well the dispatchers the communication officers I believe most likely would get overtime but again they're working more than 40 hours a week they're on the Pitman schedule which brings up a whole another another topic but they're technically not covered by a collective bargaining agreement so my statement saying all non-un employees would be incorrect that when did the dispatchers go to Pitman I know the police department did I I don't remember of approving I don't know when they went to Pitman time I don't think it was during my time but I but I'm pretty confident prates you but I don't remember exactly I don't remember them going P maybe maybe I'm incorrect then but I I I believe they do I believe they were 12 hour shifts correct and they're signed to a squad right um but okay so any further discussion on Recreation superintendent M I'll just you know I just want to say for Dan specifically for basketball for example and this is more to you mrman there are times where there's a scheduling or a ref issue or anything so whether it's a Friday night or Sunday morning like he's the one that gets the call so while it shows 20 hour or 15 hours to 20 hours there's a lot more hours and I agree you know if they're scheduled to work 20 they should work 20 but the truth of the matter is if you want to get the job done you're going to have to show up and take those calls I do not he does I understand what you mean Mr Man I essentially what you're saying is Dan's not ordered to stay 20 hours you know his his work week and his compensation was for 15 hours but I consistently see him put in more for that so in the due diligence of noticing that that's why the mayor and I are want to formally increase his his work hours to 20 hours and then therefore compensate it but I I totally understand what you were saying you're not disagreeing with the salary I think it's kind of like a side conversation so but I I think key Point here also is to understand that Dan starts I'm say at 10 but sometimes he goes to six and he he covers the points where the the people actually come up to see him so he's there after hours some after six sometimes so I don't think anybody disagreeing with his time here but I think there is a there is a legal thing where you may have to tell him like you can't be here that many hours because but can we stop somebody I don't know that's I think that's a legal question I don't know what the answer that you need to tell the employee to leave and if the job is not being done and is not being completed then the administration and the council have to figure out either to approve more money but anyone anyone any employee who is working more than their scheduled time that's a non-exempt employee is eligible to be paid I I don't I don't disagree we're not running a you know they're not running a charity you know we would be sometimes it feels that way we would be fired you know I I would be fired if someone was working for me and they were putting in 40 hours and their schedule for 35 and I said we can't pay you I would be fired and my company would be open to extensive lawsuit and you know don't want to belabor it but I would ask Mr paer if he could review that review this okay it's the fair standard yes okay so okay I but then yeah I understand the problem is that Dan is at the mercy of the public what's that I said Dan is at the mercy of the public no no not disagree no I don't disagree with Mr all what Mr Alman is saying is correct but it also I agree with you can't you you this this is a sticky subject because I've been involved in where an employee is not getting it done in 40 hours in order to create overtime and is not eligible for it because they weren't doing their duties of what they should be done in 35 or 40 hours so that's the other Avenue but that's got to be you know that's a then that's managed through a person correct that's a personal action form yes yeah you know yes no absolutely but I don't want anybody to think like hey just don't do your job and stay 5 hours extra you're going to get 5 hours extra because that's not how this works here's the problem with this particular um position it's akin to an athletic director at a high school correct okay same thing you know they have their their stuff on weekends and at night and unfortunately we don't have people in the in the um the office at that time so it's one of those positions where you know you know what you're taking on it's going to require extra hours they should get paid but an athletic director the school does not get right paid they're exempt I understand my guess is my guess is that they're an exempt employee okay well I'm just kind of giving analogy right okay so I'm challenging you Mr what do you mean how do you come to that concl I'm Ser serious question like if they an exemp salary versus hourly right Sly versus hourly but it also is the level of responsibility are they self-directing are they managing people are they you know there's are they professionals a long checklist uh to determine that like you know um what uh brokerage got in a lot of trouble because the stock broker Su and said they weren't exempt they should be paid for overtime when they were working 80 hours a week and the courts considered it so it you know to me you know we we ask a lot of our employees and this is something that I really feel strongly about as you could tell well all I I'd like to say is uh obviously you see we're looking to correct it uh we'll look at the other positions to see if they pretty much in line uh because we don't want to do anything against the law and uh our attorney will look into the Fair Labor whatever it was any further discussion roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Oman yes Council woman bz yes council president to sener yes director of law attorney don't know Peach sh on it's going to be above that yeah well above it right before engineering page 15 I think yes page 15 um yes director of Department of Law uh the first line is um director of law salary 88,2 34 requested some of second discussion anyone no roll call councilman yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council woman bz yes council president desum no uh the next one is coordinator public affairs oh did you oh we have to do director of law right there's no there is no okay so the next one is coordinator public affairs uh I don't know where that is uh um the next page page 17 okay public affairs um event coordinator 40120 4611 8,000 requested 8,000 recommended do I have a motion so moved second are we are we doubling this position or are we just giving that person a 50% raise um yeah if I could uh explain the reason for the requested increase um as the council knows we haven't had a public affairs director uh for quite a few months now um the the few people we've spoken to who are interested said to take it at the 1800 uh they expect more from an assistant um than what was previously granted um and then checking around with other towns uh the 8,000 is still well within line of what they pay uh between those two positions for a director and a coordinator to uh oversee and get all the events uh you know from paper to execution so is this raised for this person for Sasha or is this for somebody else um that remains to be seen whether well I me we WR Sasha no let me finish um it remains to be seen um once it's approved if uh Sasha wants to pick up the extra hours or if we put on another part-timer like she is at the 4,000 but I don't want but the way we're approving this is like we're giving a 50% rating so well we're get the position a 50% raise for more hours is there a job description for that Ro there is yes yes probably in piece I guess public affairs coordinator is right after uh Leanne's position right after police Administrative Assistant um and I'll just add in uh without a public affairs director um as much as it's not my area of expertise uh I'm doing that function for the Memorial Day parade and ceremony and uh Sasha is being a great help to me uh putting in more hours than in the past uh because the director uh used to put in more hours but then we have volunteers that used to do this work because years ago these positions didn't exist we have mostly volunteers who help the days of the event uh but there's a lot that goes on before the days of the event this you know for anyone I mean I don't want to Pursuit Pursuit what's in the uh description uh but you know it's a trying to get sponsorship for these events um you know doing all the paperwork um so it is significant above and beyond what the volunteers do just the actual day of the event Mr Mayor yeah I was just going to say you know chime in you position okay so um this coordinator H position right whether it's Sasha or somebody else does call for so much in terms of for example and I'll use the Memorial Memorial Day Parade it's about coordinating with DPW the VFW the police the knights the the all the township Sports the vendors the singers the speakers go the cars the school for the band you know there I'm learning that firsthand this year um hope the checklist works so there are so many moving parts and when you're trying to coordinate something like that at the same time you're coordinating other events right so all the prep work for Town day is happening while you're trying to get this event underway and then at the same time if there's a summer concert or a summer movie you're working to do that so if we want to talk about and I'm going to come back to you Mr om man if you want to talk about employees that are working far beyond ours these public affairs positions are that and then in terms of volunteers as we know there are very little volunteers we have you know the public affairs I volunteer on it um there's a core group but they basic Bally you know come to the meetings they know what's going on but at the same time like they can't take on all these responsibilities and thankfully you know our volunteers are are very proactive but they take a a piece and there's only so much you can require of that you know not everybody wants to go on their lunch break and make a you know a thousand phone calls you know did we get the cars did we get the sponsorship did we get the logo did we get the bannering did we you know not everybody will do that she puts all those pieces together and and she yeah between in this case Sasha because that's the current person and whoever will be the director they do that you know so for example when I was the director you know I would shoot a text to to Sasha can you please check if the banners you know are delivered can you coordinate with the DPW and go pick them up you know in between classes so she would make all the phone calls and she would get the job done and then some and you know go out during in between her opportunities and hit a Westwood vendor and the township vendor and a sponsor here and pick up a check there today today alone she's drove and picked up checks for sponsorships right so we're looking at this 8,000 but what she's bringing over the course or this position over the course of the year in sponsorship and public you know um support is great right the you know truthfully these are two positions that that are complet they they might as well be volunteer because the amount of gas that I spent just driving to Walmart to Staples to hear it was just insanee for that's the that's the that's part of being a volunteer you're going to give up that time and that money to but not to this degree if we go with Mr ol man's statement about totally being under paid and underappreciated quite frankly it is Way Beyond not disagreeing with so I just don't I I don't understand if we're making this for two people or one people that's all I want to make sure is well again it's for a number of hours it's not for one person versus two it's the number of hours that we're looking to cover for the physician you know and but but but you can make that 20,000 then and then cover $20,000 worth of hours you know what I'm saying Mr Mayor it's a you're throwing a you're throwing you know a dart into you know a bat you know it's well I'm the volunteering is Limitless hours you know we all volunteer our time we spend you know like M bz just said i' I've spent all my lunch hours for the last two weeks calling vendors getting the rentals for Saturday getting all the and that's one event now imagine doing that across 10 12 events well again it's it's a lot so and you know when I first took on the position uh back in 2019 you know there was a need for events people want activities to take their kids they want the summer movies they want the summer concert so there has clearly been a need and a desire for it but a lot of towns have like a a a full committee like like they have a position no no no they have like a volunteer but they have like a volunteer committee that like is in the Public's eye all the time that brings you know this there full board members like it's a full organization but it's a town it's a town committee it would be like you know they would answer to council there would be a councila on position or the mayor would appoint a committee that would say Hey you know these are the events we want to run in 2024 and that committee would handle it and if there is a paid person like shash is now but the committee the volunteers would handle the bulk of the work which is the way it used to always run you know I'm not saying she's not nobody's disagreeing that she's not putting in a lot of time I I have to take exception with that a little mic the way it used to be run we had one or two events in town and you know Daisy under her stewardship of the public affairs has made a lot more events if we want to go back to one or two events no nobody what you're saying is no but we had we always had a Memorial Day Parade we always had uh we always had a town day right you know other than those two well you know and the volunteer pool has shrunk and yeah and eight okay that's fine it's a valid comment you know Shane any other discussion ladies and gentlemen that's do we have run books are they responsible for creating run books for these events I'm sorry I didn't hear are they responsible for creating run books for the events run books yeah so you ticked off and as the de mayor uh getting the ordering the banners uh I we call a checklist for each event what has to be done M if I can paraphrase what you're saying a checklist I I would wondering if we have at a minimum a checklist or if there's more expansive sort of instructions on how well I'll tell you I mean when I first took it on like the mayor said the events were limited and the need was there for more so we experimented to see what would be more popular than others and what would be more in demand and in doing so you know I would consider myself organized I've organized it in such a way that there are there are checklist for myself or there was where it would be like okay well you these are the in the police department needs you need you know the knights you need to talk to the chief you need to talk to this blah blah blah BL blah in the sports contact you know cheerleading basketball whoever it is so there are areas that have been organized in that fashion if that's what you're referring to yes and then I but I did that for my own organization and by X month of the year this these calls and sponsorship letters needed to go out right but that but I basically was like here's a position and I you know tried to organize it with the mayor's uh assistance and guidance on what can be done and then Mr D Carlo I do have to say you know from the financial aspect we've been able to do a lot of these events because the volunteers we do have and Mr Dar Carl D us financially we've been able to you know raise some support for our events um but it has you know going from very little to what we have different things yeah it's it's day and night you know respectfully M what can we just say the the amount of events that have increased since this person was 4,000 I mean it been 4,000 speak into the microphone it was 4,000 before the 5K right what sorry the the the salary range for this so even since that time of when it was two we increased it to however many when it was 4,000 and then it was still 4,000 when we added the other programs and that was the 5K yeah I mean it's been the banner program the we did the Halloween um the Home Decorating we've added um the 5K there was the tree lighting was taken you know further and enhanced um there I mean there's I could bring the checklist of how many events we went from honestly like two or three whatever it was and we we were I think we topped right before I left at about 12 or 13 events right but what I'm saying is when it was 4,000 we added more events to oh absolutely and that was the 5K the banner program just off the top of my head yes and you know unfortunately there isn't more volunteers but this person isn't a volunteer they're an employee so there's requirements set of them that they have to make as opposed to a volunteer being able to decide what and what not they want to do M so and we do ask for more volunteers you see me I'm always out hey if you want to join come on I have Google forms online you know we have a specific form online just for General volunteer volunteering you know through the library we reach out to them can you do you have any volunteers to the community center so we're putting the request out there and unfortunately it's not being met with the desire um you know everybody wants to attend the events but nobody wants to show up and help so you have to see what happens I just like to add one other thing is at the meetings we have the pre-event meetings um the volunteers weigh in and you know they have good ideas but however at the end of the meeting it's and I can use her name all right Sashi based on that meeting you're going to now do one two three four five tasks that none of the volunteers you know they make time for that meeting but they don't have time as Daisy was saying you know to take their lunch hours and do these things okay thank you so just back to Mike's initial Point S I think that there's generally a correlation between what we're approving and a line item in the detail and this seems to differ so are you looking to double her hours double her hours or hire someone to um well yes to both double the hours for the position again I can't say because I'm not going to ask someone to speculate hey if the if you know if I can pay you more hours than you have the time to put in I'd rather get the approval first and then say all right do you have the time if not then I have to look for someone else who will you know it will be a dual role of assisting or coordinator as the title goes um and yes you know B based on what I'm seeing along on Memorial Day parade and ceremony obviously that's one of the bigger ones but you know each event probably takes you know on average you know even the smaller ones 10 to 15 hours I mean yeah that's the smaller ones yeah I mean for Memorial Day Town day the tree lighting the big you know have you seen the to-do list that Mr I'm working with it right now it's efficiency it's trying to be efficient somehow I get roped into public affairs what is this person's because it says salary but I'm assuming they get paid hourly um no they get paid a salary I think it's yeah correct it's quarterly I mean I will if I could speak directly about Sasha you know since it is open I mean what she has brought has helped so much and if you you know notice there really haven't been increases in the public Affair lines because of her ability to go out there and seek sponsorship like I said even today she went and picked up Tex that's you know and that's an and she has this personality you know whether it's her or somebody else but just speaking to her but my my whole question is if it's going to be her and we're going to give her $2,000 a quarter let's just state that I I don't like that you know I don't have a problem giving her a 50% increase if that's what we're asking for but I I can't get an answer is is this for Sasha or is it we don't know if it's for Sasha that's the whole thing yeah I'm going to say we have a difference of opinion I'm looking to fund what it takes to get the job done if that takes one part-time person or two parttime people I I I don't know right now but the justification for the money because the number of hours is is what I'm basing this budget line okay and it's real it's a it's real request no I know you understand it's just a matter of is it is it for her or is it not for her like I'd like to leave the meeting and tomorrow Mr Dar Carlo says hey you got $1,000 a quarter increase if you if you're going to do double the amount of work or whatever it is I'm I don't I should have said it that way but you understand what I'm saying yeah like double the amount of work she wouldn't sleep yeah or this person all right roll call Council CIA no councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council woman blz yes council president to sen yes thank you OEM coordinator Rio Fano uh that's in the back I believe right uh yeah probably coin right police yeah I think so so we're going to go to like 24 24 maybe it's right after yeah must be pleas start on 24 now you're going to go to page 32 I have OEM salaries and wages is that it yes and you vote I'll explain it 40125 25210 2500 requested 2500 recommended do I have a motion don't move have a second second discussion thank you council president this line um includes two individuals this would be the coordinator and the deputy coordinator so if you go to the salary chart so both Penny yeah Clayton County and Rio so they would split $1,250 each yes so um Rio would be $836 no I'm sorry $1,873 and Clayton Kenny would be $624 it's it's just a 2% increase request from last year's but that line pays two people okay so that takes care of two uh line items for Rio Fano and Clayton Kelly the O coordinator and a deputy OEM coordinator yes that's correct roll call oh sorry mik discussion who where do these positions report into do they effectively report into the they report to the mayor the mayor to you I think what's important to understand is God forbid there is a declared emergency they're in charge yeah that coordinator is in charge of that emergency whether I'm there the mayor's there we here or not she's there uh there's an incredible amount of responsibility um on that individual and their Deputy um and then of course if there is an emergency they're responsible for working with the the grant coordinator for FEMA reimbursements and and and stuff like that so there's and there is job classifications so I think the biggest thing to tell you is God forbid there's an emergency there's a tremendous amount on this per these people's shoulders yeah I mean the training they keep up with and like Mark said just the grants for feema and like that 1033 program you know they're porun of that right so just and both of these individuals have other roles within Township they're both police officers okay so understanding what you said that they would be responsible for coordinating an emergency does that interfere with their roles as police officer no uh I I've asked that a number of times like every couple years just to make sure there is no a problem with that and the chief has always told me that there is not okay any further discussion roll call councilman CIO yes councilman Sears abstain councilman Omen yes Council woman bz yes council president Des yes next one is uh director of fire department and the police dispatcher Bill bilus he's open so um dispatchers is in the back correct director is on 3 up 33 33 uh at the bottom yep the bottom line everyone so fire department director 2 40125 26511 1,800 requested 1,800 recommended do I have a motion so move second okay discussion I can tell you that bill as a director it's never ending he's constantly answering questions he has proposed the fireboard to their their feet and the fire department um he's in excellent leadership in that that position am among the uh the fire department and um anybody needs an increase he should get it but um I definitely recommend the 1800 thank you Mr any other discussion is he a um I know active fireman has a conation he he's active in the department yes also just to piggy back on what Mr sear says he takes an incredible um act incredibly active role during budget season season managing the budget and uh whether you're supposed to or not has officially become liais on between me and and the espb building as a whole um so I mean even even in addition to what the traditional director of fire would be um he definitely takes his role serious and uh and ures that his input his attention his participation um is is there for every step of the way thank and and not to oversell it but um you know he's my direct interface to the Chief and the department department and as we know uh that department has many people Volunteers in it uh so he's you know somewhat responsible like the chief for all of those people when they're out and uh you know so just the fact that he's my liaison to a department that big uh also I think should count thank you roll call coun M Casio yes councilman seers uh I'm gonna say yes but I think I might have to recuse myself is that correct recuse yes thank you I recuse councilman Alman yes Council bz yes council president desum yes he is also a police dispatcher which is on the page of page top of page 32 police dispatch and salary and wages 40125 2502 um there are uh some police dispatchers incl so Mr billius Robert Held and John Cassidy uh are all to be done in open so Mr Dar Carlo it says four full-time dispatchers totaling 194,000 holiday pay of 96 hours each and $2,500 supervisor stien and benefit time can you explain that yes so if we go to um the salary chart Bill billus specifically is in the the uh category of comp completion of third year he was what is he on the first page or the second page second page second page all the way at the bottom so his his specific salary request for this year which is 2% above last year would be 49,000 980 in addition to that he is also the supervisor of the dispatchers um again that's on the email from Chief calar about halfway it starts with paragraph Bas uh he also functions as a dispatch supervisor and has done well in his position for almost a year that carries a stien of just under 2448 yeah 2448 so in that specific line we'd be talking about Bill bilas 49,98088 what is benefit time um this is one of those moments where I wish the chief was here um I I don't know do you know how it explains it's not covered under an agreement yeah I'm afraid I will Mis explain it and not do what the Justice it deserves from what my understanding there's been a long time policy within the police department that has uh dictated their holiday pay of 96 hours um and it's been consistent and their benefit fit time um and I apologize I think the mayor and I both count on the chief further explaining that um I don't have a total grasp of that and I and I apologize but these are civilian employees correct are not police employees they're not covered under that correct exactly collective bargaining agreement corre so how would they fall into benefit time is my question again I'd be guessing it may have to do more with Pitman yeah they're definitely on the Pitman as you can see that we had that question before if you I can try to see when I when we prepare the budget the police department prepared a sheet for me um outlining why the money was um requested if you just give me a minute I can um try and look that up see if I have it maybe even less than a minute and is this I'll you do that maybe something I can get the is the supervisor role supervisory role new I mean we have a no I chain of command in the police department that I assume manages the dispatchers so like we it seems we've created another uh level or management level and you know is that necessary shouldn't shouldn't shouldn't it be managed by the police the existing police command structure I don't want to address that because again I'm afraid I would do it in Injustice however I can say the position uh I can't give you the exact year but it started once we went to uh full-time dispatchers uh civilian dispatchers I should say and um and that that's all I'm prepared to say about it unfortunately so not trying to hide it but I don't want to put out misinformation so it's more than a year or two it's correct okay yeah I would say it's three or four okay um oh I okay you have an answer Mr pH in his um support of this it it calls for cover their benefit time meaning we're going to have to pay for part-time dispatchers to cover them while they're out on their benefit time so that's included here as well and then the holiday pay of 96 hours each that I'm not totally sure on how to uh provide any support um I know I did have an understanding of it to where it made sense I just I don't feel comfortable saying I I think I am Mark but again please don't take it verbatim is uh they work their holidays they don't get holidays off they're kind of like the police a 247 operation uh so I think that we pay them all 96 hours to cover the holiday pay but if they're not scheduled why would we pay their holiday again a fair question I don't have the immediate answer so I mean we're happy to you know go back tomorrow and ask the Chief and uh again since I think you're mostly addressing budgetary um there's only one person who has it enclosed but I two people oh yeah one person I don't think we would be discussing positions as much as the overall I guess the main question is is is the uh the benefit time and the 96 hours how they're how it's covered when they're not right on shift during a holiday like and not certainly not for this discussion tonight but in the near future if we could review I think Mike brought it up and it sort of resonated with me that we no longer 911 no longer comes into our dispatch um that that's correct it's answered by no pamis I think isn't yeah it's answered by pamis uh but they just take the immediate and then they usually have to get our dispatcher on the line uh to dispatch officers actually and like that so they take the call but again my understanding as soon as paramis takes that call they're already dialing our dispatch because they know they're going to need them in on the call to more more than likely dispatch officers or ambulance or fire uh so maybe we can review that topography because I wouldn't I don't understand and again I don't want to divert the budget discussion but why would we go 911 into paramis for them just to call us as I guarantee with a financial decision yeah because to keep up with all the new 911 technology uh even to get us where we needed to be that we would we would have had to look did a half a million dollar outlay and it changes so rapidly that there uh again please don't quote me on the numbers we'd probably have to spend 100,000 each year to upgrade to keep up with the new technologies that people can access 911 and like so we want to do we want to just uh hold off on these three opens and the one the one closed we just won't discuss that person you know by name until we have Mr Dar Carlo and the mayor present this information we request is that okay and and that just those two lines those two the holiday pay and the and the benit timeit holiday pay the 96 hours and the benefit time not a larger discussion no not a larger is everybody okay with that I mean or he means that yeah yes all right so that defines our list except for the close there's four Clos which we'll do um at the end at the end okay so Mr car if Wednesday we could have uh that information that'd be awesome if not we'll have to postpone it um can we take a 5 minute recess took the words out of my mouth everybody okay with a five minute perfect just let Ricky know perfect heard me but what time are we going to Mike I wanted to go till 9 9:30 the latest you got to you got a lot of pages to all right let's see how it goes e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay we're ready to go we ready to go Ricky said he's ready we're back on all right page four uh mayor salary and wages 40120 11101 $1,651 186 requested $1,652 recommended do I have a motion so move second discussion any discussion roll call hman Casio I up councilman sear yes Council Elman who yes councilwoman bz yes and council president Des Senna um I'm going to vote I know sorry let's go I wanted to ask I wanted to ask the general I I know we're discussing the 10,652 but I wanted to I wanted to discuss all salaries and wages for mayor and Council to reduce them under the threshold for pension payments so I guess that was the discussion I wanted to have but we put the motion out for this so I'm going to say no to this but it's not because of that I have a larger discussion I wanted to have okay the next one on that page is none the next one is Township council salary and wages 40120 11100 uh 31710 requested 31710 recommended do I have a motion so move thank you discussion sure um you know discuss discussing this you know I saw what mrman had done to reduce his uh his compensation keep it under the threshold and I think that I would like to do that for all count ccil members you know we'll just stop playing the tiny pension game because pension games are a thing in Municipal budgets so I want to take myself out of the epr and I'd like to ruce everyone's to to the one 496 4996 to keep the $5,000 PR doesn't council president make a little bit more I don't I think so I have the salary one yeah but I we' all it it's to we I yeah I understand you I'm sorry it was just a question yeah I believe it's like $750 more or something as council president but Council 6692 versus 6457 but so it's even less I didn't think it was $200 so it's $200 more I apologize and you're well worth it but not not today um so the motion is for 31710 I have we have a second so roll call on that but there's a motion for 31710 we motion for the recommended request in the book Dr Casio has made a I didn't make any motion he didn't make any motion yes on the 31 just discuss okay roll call okay councilman CIO no councilman Sears um yes councilman Omen no council valz yes C council president to sen no that does not pass council president K what just for my own learning what is it you're trying to alleviate by if we if we if we are paid $4,99 it alleviates the town's contribution of almost $1,500 to $1750 a council person into Define pension contribution statements uh funding so gotcha so the new motion would be 5 * 49 so who who does that really does it affect fre no it affects every it affects you it affects everybody everybody gets dcrp but why would I want to reduce my money I'm getting yeah because I'm I don't know because that's not an answer because because we shouldn't be you know we shouldn't be benefiting off coming up with a small pension payment every year of you know it's about $1,800 per person on day is plus the 66 I forget what you said uh I forget the exact number we get paid well we're working for we're we're we're contributing to the town we're doing extra things for the town we're we're working a lot a lot nobody's disagreeing with that I just I you know my position is that you know we don't I don't I don't like the the pension payment may I make a question my where just cuz I don't where did you come up with those numbers from a 1500 to 1700 if you look if you look at your if you go on your gcrp statement per year I believe that that's that's what it's putting in I don't pay attention to that area so so that may be off a few dollars but there is a there is a contribution the township of Washington has to make based on our salary being above the 4996 threshold because I believe Mr uh Mr used to reduce his also to 4996 every year to avoid having that because he had a pension already well if youth three to reduce it that's fine I mean I won't stop you but I'm think I'm well worth and and andz is well worth the money the time that I I won't speak for everybody but the time and I can I feel free to speak for you councilman seers the time that we spend working for this town is it's basically a full-time job we are non-stop so I'm not nobody's disagreeing with that there's a lot of don't then please don't reduce my salary you three want to reduce it please go ahead and do it but I don't think you should make a decision on my pension I'm not I'm not making a that's my motion you know the motion was from Mr Casio asked that it be reduced to 4996 we don't have a new motion the the the existing one fails so it reverts back to the to the old one correct m m wowski the motion failed so you revert back to what the 30 two you're saying a 31710 no no pass as 31710 so what does it revert back to Mr Mr Po off it goes at it's 32520 was the previous one which is more but like every other line item I don't think it reverts back to anything you have to approve some amount okay I can I just ask for clarify clarification just so I understand this because if if we're paying if the Township's paying about $1,500 based on a salary of 6500 that's like a 25% pension payment I just want to make sure that's may I may be off but even before you make a decision for yourself I you know can we can you maybe want to table this and we'll get more exact num or or well I I don't know if I should be offering but if they want to do it and keep the salaries the same for the other Council then yeah I think that's a discussion what's the question no we do we the motion is to table it and and I will get the exact tomorrow I will open up my dcrp account and see what what it is per year I maybe I I know there's in the four years it added up to I'm just saying I'm respectfully saying that if you want to mess with your pension contributions then by all mean but I respectfully request you not do the same nor count my dollar are you willing for us to do the math real quick council president just to see what it would bring the line to if you guys it would be 24 it would be if we did all five it would be$ 24980 what if we could figure it out if the three of you did the 4996 and what it would be for them well is that okay I let me get let me get the exact numbers of approximately what the dcrp is for the next meeting on Wednesday you want me to do that I you can't yeah you well you yeah you can get it too but okay I didn't know if it'd be more helpful to get everybody's ra yeah no we don't want to get the exact but it's going to be close what you know per year goes in okay Mr D if you can run my number specifically I would appreciate it so the next thing so there's nothing left on that page Mike just um to just amplify what you said or uh make my own statement uh you know when I was on the council previously uh I made the same request uh I'm not saying anyone is worth it or not worth it um you know there are towns in the area that the council is not compensated in any way uh to me you know least personally uh this was a middle ground where there is some level of compensation but uh I don't become a long-term burden to the uh residents of the town town or the state uh by collecting a pension that may or may not be funded properly and eventually uh you know paid out okay thank you you know I I take offense to that because I'm not a burden in fact I do a lot to contribute more than a lot of people who don't run for public office do so I I do not consider myself a burden by requesting and having this okay so let's let's table it for tonight we bring it back up on Wednesday uh there is nothing else on page five on page six I don't have anything there except the assistance of the clerk which Miss wowski said she was still doing some more research on so we'll leave page six that's the only item on page six left Page seven is complete correct Mr cowsky I have you you approved the assistant but it was if we could go back to it later we have to but I will no the assistant but that on page six the only thing we have left is the assistant with the possibility of revisiting right it is but yes yes I don't have anything on page seven I see nothing on seven eight is complete correct nine is complete correct 10 is complete correct 11 is uh complete correct mhm 12 is is complete mhm 133 is complete mhm 14 is complete mhm 15 also 16 also nope oh no I'm sorry good try no no we T no we tabled uh law tax appeals appraisers correct um 15,000 uh 41201 60210 uh 15,000 requested ,000 recommended we did table that item yes are correct so with the I guess the the question was and and it was briefly given we're doing a have a motion in a second do we have a motion second so with the appraisal that's going to happen this year we wouldn't be expecting a lot of appraisers this year it would be for the new bills next year so did we really need to keep this line at 15,000 we only spent 3,4 three the most we've ever spent was in 2022 of 7900 so 8,00 let's call it 8,000 so are we okay bringing this line down to 10,000 that would be my recommend are you making a motion for that yes my motion would be to make it 10,000 I'll second that any discussion on that history shows that 88 8,000 is the highest it's ever gone and we don't expect any this year so and that's because we're doing the the apprais this year next year and then hopefully next year we don't have that many either because everybody will be at the right number correct roll call G Casio this is for the 10 10,000 yes yes councilman Sears yes councilman Alman yes Council valz yes council president to yes the last line on this page is asked to be enclosed so we will have to uh page 16 if you go to your chart he will be enclosed I did not hear back from certain people which revers it to a closed and here is one of them okay just so everybody knows so we so we can just do the position and not go to close if I was okay with that right because according page 17 Page 16 department of engineering salaries and wages uh 1,800 requested 1,800 recommended do I have a motion some do I have a second second discussion this is the director director yes okay roll call Council M Cassio yes councilman yes councilman Omen yes councilwoman bz yes council president to sener yes page 19 17 I don't see anything public affairs director no yes it's currently vacant yeah yeah 40120 40610 18800 requested 1,800 recommended do I have a motion some move second discussion uh do we have someone there today not currently um like like I said with the uh coordinator position we've spoken to a few people who did not feel comfortable taking it because they were afraid at the 4,000 number for the coordinator too much work would fall on them uh so now this gives me the opportunity to go back to those people and say you know Council funded it for eight and so are you interested in the position so it can't again we we wouldn't be making the same person all three positions right all three positions well well well the the two the one or two plus this it's not all I I'm going to say I wouldn't exclude uh Sasha okay and I'm not pick I'm just asking a general question I just because we have the same problem with the other they be reporting to themselves so kind of defeats the purpose so roll call can oh sorry since q1 is B is behind us can we at least reduce it to 1350 I mean as long as you want to increase it next year for that little amount uh you know if 350 means something for this year I always look at it it adds to the 2% cap every year so a drop in one year but that's my own opinion is that really going to add something you want no no uh I would agree with uh mayor Kar we'll leave it at 18 okay motion for 18 that's y That's What We motion for roll call councilman CIO no councilman sear yes councilman om man yes Council woman valz yes council president desum yes nothing left on page uh 17 Page 18 I have complete yes page 19 the only thing I'm missing is planning board office supplies at the bottom of the page 40121 180210 400 requested 400 recommended do I have a motion so move do I have a second I'm sorry M at the bottom of page 19 19 top of 20 is the office supplies for the planning zoning historical data is on the next page yeah kind it's kind of cut off they spent $350 last year was the 20 23 the past few years it's been Clos motion okay roll call councilman SE uh sorry councilman CIO yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council woman valz yes council president TOA yes on the following page the whole page is blind so continue down planning department subscription um 401 21182 40 200 requested 200 recommended have a discuss U motion motion second any second second how do we can we run the two how did it get to 200 exactly that's I probably had to um borrow money from it not borrow money from it but I probably split the charges between that and another line but yeah could be the zoning board this same type of line item Mr on it P you look you want sir you want the uh expenses I'm just trying to find it if you can find it quicker it's in the page 60 range page 60 and the Run rate office supplies due plan what are we doing dues what subscri books okay page 66 we're doing subscription and books 18024 2 yeah so yeah so we we most likely you know $160 50 for textbook for planning own training okay planning board books $36 each roll call councilman cassum yes councilman Sears yes councilman Alman yes Council woman bz yes council president desum yes did we do a vote on 210 210 office supplies the one right above yeah yes we did we did we left 400 yeah we did for the page before page 19 at the very bottom one we just did yeah we did it before this one you voted for it I have my different it falls on the it's it's like the actuals are on the second page on the top of the we for that was planning oh I'm I'm sorry I wrote the vote for okay yes yes planning department board dues meetings and conferences 401 21180 250 2600 requested 2600 recommended it is $400 for WCTV is that to televise the meetings Mr Mayor or yeah correct motion motion do I have a motion I'm sorry motion second so is it per meeting is it a per meeting charge correct so if they get canceled we don't of course you don't pay correct and are we televising the zoning board also or just the yes okay roll call councilman Casio yes councilman seers yes councilman om man I'm sorry yes Council bz yes council president Desa yes planning department board Legal Services 40121 18260 24 meetings at $250 per meeting and anticipating four extra meetings 7,000 requested 7,000 recommended do I have a motion motion that second second roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council woman bz yes council president Des sen yes planning department board legal advertising 401 21180 310 600 requested 600 recommended do I have a motion so move do I have a second second roll call councilman cassum yes councilman seus yes councilman Omen yes councilwoman bz yes council president desum yes planning department board Consulting non-legal 40121 180 1 180320 master plan proposal of $85,500 con Burg Associates 85,3 50 recommended it requested 858 excuse me 86350 requested 86 350 recommended do I have a motion so move second discussion so so my biggest thing with this is that this was recommended more than three years ago I not going to sit back and let us keep getting you know in trouble with our master plan but you know we really sat on this and burdened this count you know this should have been done three years ago um it's it's it's something that needs to be done um I have I have full faith in Mr Burg and his associates to get it done properly and bring us into 2024 but it's not fair that sitting on this day is we're absorbing this cost now Mike the only thing I would don't disagree with you the only thing I would ask is and I don't have my book with me but the 855 included uh one component I want to say it was like 7,000 I could be mistaken uh for uh for lacking Venture on public spaces the evaluation of that haven't we done that already no so it would be so it's more than 855 no that's right yes it would be 80 so you know it's recommended or it's one of the um recommended components that but does the 855 cover that recommended component or it doesn't it does I'm just wondering do we want to um either not do it this year uh I think if we we need to complete this it's something that's so long overdue just needs to be completed it needs to be completed it's not fair that you know what year did you say this was introduced this has been talked about for the last three years it's been ongoing we we we' talked about this with Mr verges since I was on the planning board and it's been sat on there was committees that were working on it and it's not fair that we're in the trouble we are right now well when they did the reval the re-exam the re-exam uh that's still covers us but what was not 198 well in 19 we did the revamp the revamp and that was uh explained to us that we would be covered until 20 something only to find out that the the company did not embedded into the original master plan now that left all of us at a disadvantage disadvantage yeah we've been like this since 2019 and it's it's it's got to get done we're still covered but but what came along is the new additions to the master plan like storm water management the public safety end of this so that's extra and I agree with you we we need to get this done um there's a lot of things pending on it the council did approve a lot of the recommendations and ordinance because they're not part of the master plan well well they are in a sense part of the master plan but it's not completely embedded into the 1974 master plan document so this would bring us up to 2025 which we really needed how how long do these typically we supposed to do it every 10 years a master plan yeah wow we haven't done one in 30 years or more yeah so just um Burgess uh had two uh we have two projects there undertaking the reevaluation no uh reexamination uh was one and there were uh four recommendations that came out of that that were not codified so it was discussed we've actually been reviewing it at the planning board and I believe uh there's a discussion between Mr Sabino Burgess and Ken I don't know if you were involved Pete Peter excuse me that's okay um you know who would write the ordinances for the council to consider so we're probably going to have a number of ordinances on the reexamination so the sooner the better and then the total review of the master plan is a second phase got right so so it's a short-term fix and then the long-term fix of the full re examination is what you're saying am I correct am I correct that's what was originally proposed when I was on planning board last time was that we would have a short-term solution with ordinances and small adoptions of things that would kind of protect us but still not reliev of what's in the 19 7484 yeah correct I think we're going to get a ordinance on uh zoning uh size of blcks and potentially a new Zone uh the second was um oh help me here uh impervious coverage yes and the third was commercial vehicles that may be deferred because there's uh a little more discussion on that okay and then the fourth is hyp but that's impacted by current litigation okay so we can't do that put yes okay roll call counc Casio this is the 86350 so when you're so you know you're making plans of where you can this was an unforeseen number you know it's a $90,000 number that you couldn't have foreseen looking at last year's budget sure um but that's that wasn't my my my question we we Michael talked Mr talked about the there was different sections to do and one we could was like almost an AL C thing we could take one out right for a section there was only I think there were there was two that we could take out and get by without I don't think it was two just one I think there only one Recreation I wouldn't recommend doing that because we have the swim club that we're sitting on that would be part of that Recreation that we need to decide what we're going to do with it um so yeah I I understand would put it your vote not mine at the moment since thank you very much not a vote I really wanted to make but you know in the you know the Grand schem and things it's something that should have been done a while ago we have to do it and I really can't in light of our recreational needs we can't take that component out I wish we couldn't at this point but I'll just I'm okay with yes we review we can't capitalize this correct okay ask why not it was asked if you can capitalize but you cannot capitalize reamin re examination try discussed it with no who's next Mrs ready y councilman seers uh yes councilman Omen yes Council bz yes council president to sener yes planning department board training 401 21180 370 500 requested 500 recommended do I have a motion some move second second roll call councilman Cassio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Alman no councilman bz yes council president to Sena yes bottom of page 21 I have two item one item for zoning office office supplies 40121 85210 requesting a new computer screen 1000 requested 1,00 recommended do I have a motion so move do I have a second second discussion this monitor is that expensive Mr no no we're only asking for $250 increase so we're anticipating 750 Fe towards everything else other than the computer screen so roughly 250 for the computer screen so we only spent 350 last year you know I reviewed it with um yeah I mean if you look at the prior five years it seems to go up and down I don't know the exact reason offand obviously but I'd reduce it to to to 900 i' make a motion for 900 excuse me councel president of the Senate yeah just so you know uh for this account there was a transfer resolution done on December 18th of 1400 so you really spent 1700 and change C just keep that in mind so we bought for office supplies Mr cor no that's just the line we put it in I believe that's what I'm saying it's it's not it's not office supplies we transferred in or out transferred in you transferred in so what's I for this account I I wrote notes down hold on let let me look at the audit Trail please what page is the audit Trail you know page 73 yeah if you look at page 73 the last item you'll see it yeah but then we didn't expense it yeah there's extra money left in there no it it was when you do a transfer you pick one line for to go into because it's a sub account I just don't I'd have to look through this to see what expense we actually used well I don't see why we transferred the 1,400 in there because the last the last expense on 1017 was for training of $10 and it left 42 i' have to go to the transfer resolution leg pull it up it's for Legal Services that's most likely what it was yeah so it shouldn't be an office suppli that's just again it's just I really can't argue that but the answer is it was just put into um this line and then I'm sure we overdrafted legal if you look at legal we went over by $1,653 I'm sorry yeah that's right yeah but yes I can't argue with you it should have probably went specifically into legal service yeah but it was just chosen all right I'll make a motion for 900 requested 900 recommended have a second second roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council woman valz yes council president desna yes zoning office subscription and books 40121 85240 200 request Ed 200 recommended last year they spent zero in this line it's for four new members yeah they we we they plan on using every bit of it this year okay roll have a motion Mo motion I'm sorry motion do I have a second second roll call cman cassum yes councilman Sears yes councilman Alman yes councilman BZ yes council president to yes zoning office dues meetings and conferences 40121 18525 13 meetings at $250 per meeting for videotaping uh 3,500 requested 3500 recommended do I have a motion so move second any discussion this is with WCTV again yes roll call councilman yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes councilwoman bz yes council president desum yes zoning office board Legal Services 40121 18526 13 meetings at $250 per meeting 30,000 anticipated expense for litigation and two lawsuits 33,000 requested 33,000 recommended do I have a motion do I have a motion do we know what the I'm TR yes talked about the litigation that's right talk about public right right okay motion moot do I have a motion second Mr motion Mr Casco seconded discussion the two lawsuits were discussed in in closed a few meetings ago so we can't discuss them now I mean you can bring up the topic if you want what they're about but that's it yes there's two there's two land disputes in Township that we currently are in litigation with the applicants the just so I'm clear the two are one is the one is the corner lot at uh pasc Washington and pasak and the other one is at the Hillsdale Washington Township border on Koch Peak and Taylor understood um roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council woman bz yes council president to sen yes zoning office board legal advertising 401 21185 310 500 requested 500 recommended to have a motion so move second roll call councilman yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council woman bz yes council president the Senate yes zoning office board training 40121 185 370 500 requested 500 recommended do I have a motion sub Mo second any discussion I'll second it thank any discussion yeah I just um the zoning and the planning office have the same training I don't know if there is a schedule for the new training or uh is this complete in terms of the training that was undertaken last year last year's training is complete there's a you know land use law tends to you know be updated revised changed so we're anticipating any more more training this this year as well so last year we used money out of both lines it is the same individual um but we used money out of both lines but there is planning and there is zoning okay R councilman Cassio yes councilman Sears yes Council Omen yes Council woman valz yes council president to sener yes bottom of page 23 is the last line on that page uniform construction code CCO inspections 41221 19519 we had table disc um any I have the information for you again if you have to make the motion first do I have a motion so move do I have a second second discussion Mr Dara you have the information you said yes so speaking with Darius PCO our uniform construction official it's in in direct relationship to how many homes are sold so for the CR the resale certificate and fire inspection um we charge a fee of a total of 140 so respectfully 100 for the resale and 40 for the fire inspection the inspectors then get paid out of this line um a total of $75 for both 50 for the CRI and 25 for fire so again we'd be making a a judgment on how many houses we think sold so that's why you see the fluctuation um really can never say that it it met the 12,500 I think that's what your um thought process was last time that's why you had asked me to get some more information it's really how many houses are going to sell and make sure we have the money to pay for U those inspections everybody okay we're reducing it to 11,000 that would been my motion it's never gone above that I'll second that you'll second that we have a motion by me in a second by mrsz 11,000 roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears on the question on the reduction of 15500 uh right what happens if we we have to find money from somewhere else okay well that sounds a problem there's plenty of money everywhere oh yes please I hope you're P said Council right good councilman Alman yes Council bz yes council president to yes on page 24 there is it's complete okay oh no I have uh the top uniform construction code subs and uh books no there's nothing recommended oh there nothing okay I have that page done on the bottom of page 2 I have the table I have dental Life and Accident and medical all the that tabled yes I have health benefits tabled and dental Life and Accident tabled Mr you were going to get us you got sheet for the last meeting I think M wowski gave it to you maybe a meeting or two ago do we do you still have it if not I asked um Ricky has a slide yeah can you bring up the slide then if you don't yeah if you don't mind just give me 30 seconds to get my paper I thought I put it in this book but for some reason it's not in here you have an extra com so we voted on Dental because that was we Ted Dental Ted both okay um you want to do the easy one first cuz it it would be recommending or you know again I don't like like to lower anything but like Dental Life and Accident um we can lower and then the health benefits is just going to be a little bit more of a discussion whichever order you want to do well let's you got the SL can yeah so the slide what what do we have to let's do dental life and so Dental life accident 401 23220 01 0 72,000 recommend requested 72,000 recommended do I have a motion okay I'd like to discuss Mr I'm sorry I'm sorry moved second thank you I'm sorry sorry so just to give you some more clarity But ultimately um we we'd feel fine with lowering it to 55,000 but if if you guys have this document um if not I do have an extra one I can pass down could you pass that down Mr take picture on your phone I'm a blind squirel hey that was a good idea Mr you're taking a picture of it on your phone all right I'll pass it down I want the original I can't see on my phone either so just uh bear with me cuz when I was prepared to go like two meetings ago I had like an excellent argument for everything and now of course I forgot all my good arguments so but um ultimately you have on the bottom the quarterly the first quarter expenses um Mr Roman that's very distracting you type it in your number got the first quarter expenses for dental Life and Accident Dental is just under 12,000 life insurance which is for DPW and police is a little over a thousand thank you and then accident Insurance um you're not going to see that in the first quarter expenses that we sent or in here because it's not paid traditionally until about September and that's for the volunteer fire department that's $2500 yes so if you times four add in the 2500 it gets us just to kind of below 55,000 gives us a little bit of cushion um that's why we you know we feel we feel um comfortable up to so 48,000 right if we just round it up to 12,000 right that's 48,000 was four Dental I'm saying if you make it 12,000 it's 48,000 2500 for the accident and 1050 for the um DPW life from fire right those are quarterly or what's that it's 4,200 in total you got a time I believe the life insurance is quarterly it is oh that's why I didn't know that's what I was asking it's it's quarterly okay so it's 48,000 for dental 4,200 let's call it for life and 2500 for uh accident right so it's 44,700 you want to make it 45,000 I'm okay no I want to make it 55 I'm sorry no 52 54 it's 54700 it's 54700 if you can give me that couple hundred buck buffer just in case because we won't really know how much so the new request is for 55,000 which would be a $14,000 reduction in line items 010 is that correct yes the um the life insurance States DPW and police do staff members not receive life insurance they do not This Is Us CDA contract so what would it cost to do we know what it would cost to Grant everyone one time their base probably not more than $4,000 because there's I'm giving you a very rough maybe idiotic you know answer but there's more employees for DPW and police than there are that that don't receive it so I can't imagine it would be more than the $4,200 me I don't know I would be happy with making the 60 ,000 and giving everybody a onetime uh their their salary death benefit I'm okay with that is that what you're saying Mr Alman well I mean I think that's somewhat standard yeah that's standard I mean I mine's three times so I'm sorry what do you what's done so Mr Mr alond asked do the does the staff other than uh volunteer fire department get accident uh get life insurance excuse me it's Department of Public Works and police they get one times their salary is life insurance um but the rest of the staff does not so Mr Deo said it would be approximately a $4,000 increase to do that for all the staff so if we make this 60,000 and make it a stipulation that all the staff gets the same life insurance policy that the DPW and the police get is everybody okay with that so the new request would be 60,000 from Mr alond I'll second that for adding life insurance to all our employees in the building CL okay all full-time employees all full full-time employees only yes full-time employees so the motion is to make it 60,000 which would only then give us a savings of 12,000 to include all full-time employees yes okay yeah I mean do you I I agree with you Mr Al it's something that everybody gives as a as a as a free life insurance of of your I mean at ver I get three times my you at Verizon yeah I mean you would have received received one time salary or multiple of your base salary one time and I believe the state gives three times your salary yes okay ours is three times ours yours twoo yes okay so Mr Mr dalala if you can uh we'll make that 60,000 the new Council recommend and request uh roll call for 60,000 but including life insurance to all employees fulltime full time full life insurance for all fulltime employees thank you thank you councilman CIO yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council will valz yes council president to sener yes health benefits 40123 22000000 1 million requested 1 million recommended we have a breakdown from Mr Dar Carlo that he just sent around um if WCTV could please pull up that first slide you John you don't mind if we Nix you for a second on the screen and if we can make that slide bigger it's a really important slide can we he's muted he's muted you're muted John oh wait on it's really really I'm not sure how to take myself off no you don't have to I think it would be something Ricky do right Ricky can you make the slide the whole screen and take Mr Mr work went off temporarily or [Applause] no all right if if you can't see it I'll explain it to you so I'm actually glad we table this so I could give you a better understanding of how this line is going to work I can't control Zoom he'd have to disable his video you have to turn off your video Mr corint just your video just your video don't hang up there you go thank you Mr cor there you go all right so remember last last meeting we discussed is the council I'll just say generally was trying to understand where the cost savings was so that first slide where it says $1,190 that's what the cost of our health benefits was in 2023 okay in 2024 the cost would be 1,7 6,682 so that's what I'm I'm pleased about being able to to table it to show you that so you're not seeing a tangible savings but if we didn't go to the difference card instead of asking you for a million I would have been asking Council for a million 76 so because we're going to difference card we're immediately saving the increase in health care from 23 to 24 hopefully that makes sense then um to explain it lower the revised fix quote plus so instead of paying a mil 76 for direct 10 or direct 15 by going to direct 2035 the cost of the carrier and the difference card so the carrier would be the premium for 2020 35 and the cost of the difference card which will be uh just under $1,800 a month right so it's $513 per employee right now there's 30 that was based on 35 employees I think there might be 36 employees that take Healthcare that's what we'll pay to the difference card to enter into their program would be $1,800 so we pay the state health benefits plan the cost of the premium goes right from us to State health benefits plan then from us to the difference card is just is the 1700 9725 based on 35 employees right might give or take you know we had someone resign it not taking it maybe we're going to hire you know someone that does take it or something changes in their life that's where that 843 228 is how we get to the 9916 th000 that difference of between 916 and 843 are what the claims were when they gave us this proposal so that's where we talked about funding a specific separate account with the bank so we have to fund at least that difference in a separate account to pay for those those charges so that's when they put this proposal together it was based on the experience report is that what it's called experience report our claims when they did this whether it was 22 or 23 probably in 23 were that what is that 7 $75,000 $75,000 that's how we get to the 96,000 but that 916 does not include the employee contributions it does not 266 excuse me what is it uh your employee contributions were 266,000 is that correct well it's let me just read it's actually 81 10876 per quarter right and you're looking at what I had given you right so 81 8118 76 a quarter right so that's got to be multiplied by four so 218 * 4 81 10876 and then the waivers 10876 * 4 is 405 wait that doesn't make sense you got times four that's what I did yeah 81 108. 76 * 4 = 324 435 what aren't you doing 2118 52656 * 4 no what is our the employee contributions right yes so just just use that number the net expense number of 218 okay 52656 times 4 all right then we have anticipated waivers of a little over 21,000 what do you mean by waivers so so employees that oped out of health insurance are privy to a waiver up to $5,000 but it also depends on what their salary is so and I I'm pretty sure I have given that to you too so if you do not take medical right and you get a waiver up to about $5,000 up to $5,000 over a certain threshold in your compensation you basically get a five you get a payment basically yes right so right now there's five people five employees that op that opt out of healthcare that total up to 2,162 but not all of them are 5,000 correct three of them are 5,000 two of them are $3,819 based on their salary just to throw out to you if those same five people came back and wanted healthare it would cost $131,000 $245 32 that's the municipality Sho so obviously it's a good benefit that these people opt out so 21 162 rather than 131 and that's again so going back to your slide the the the 9116 number right that's what we need in the account that's full payment that's without employee contributions right that's without uh um see that's yes I just can you let me think for a second I don't want to rush to a decision but I believe so I believe that so so if you take that make let's call it 920 for for talking right I'll give you the 30 33,000 something you make it 920 now we got to subtract out the employee contributions can Mr corkran come back on live if you don't mind I'd like to hear what he has to say what what the average so according to this sheet Mr corkman it's saying that per quarter we have $81,000 contributions back into the system to pay premiums correct yes so if we multiply that by four that is a typical number that would reduce that 916 number is that a fair statement I was in the your setion that that for the for the year was approximately 260,000 all right so but what I'm my question so my my my my question is out of the 920 right that's our full buyout for for 2024 medical benefits is 9164693790 so so there's a $660,000 liability we have in employee benefits is that a fair statement Mr Coran say no I I would say approximately yes it might be a little bit higher but that's okay call it let's call let's call it 700 yes 700 would be would be I think a fair number thank you that's all I need to know what you also need to take into consideration is the waivers and then employees change of life someone can get married and have a child all in the same year that's why we put the extra $40,000 in there and we're rounding up everything where is the extra 40,000 it was 660 was the real number and I said let's call it 700 Mr corkman agreed it was the when you red reduce the 96 make it 920 and 260 you come up with 660 and you bring it up to 700,000 so you have some change of Life events and they are included yeah but that's not even one change of life because if someone goes from a single to a married with a child it's it's significantly more but they're also going to start contributing significantly more they are but not in comparison to how much the healthc care is going to cost us so if they only make contribution based on what their salary is but the but the pre but the health coverage still costs the same amount of money so if I'm making 150,000 I'm most amount towards let's just say $50,000 plan but if someone's at the lowest bracket and they're making 50,000 they're only contributing based on their salary not on how much the premium cost so if they're they're paying say $10,000 for a single and then they go to a married child and goes to 50 those aren't act numbers um there's a $40,000 difference no but they're paying they're paying a percentage of the premium of the of the of the plan right but they're only paying it based on their salary so the less they make the less they contribute absolutely right so but your 40,000 buffer 21 of that is including a waiver so you're really only giving me 19,000 for a change of life or if an employee resigns and comes in with a family and then there's you know there's the unknown I I totally understand you accounting for the employee contributions um but I would ask you not to over not disrespectfully but overe exaggerate how much we don't need if that even makes sense but I guess my question is if we look at the heading there it's July 1st to June 30th July 1st 2024 to June 30 2025 so what has happened January 1st to June 30th so that's our that's our current plan so that's the numbers that you see represent the 218 Mr car I need you to move up a little bit oh I apolog sorry I'm sorry so the not on this the this this form this form here you go 28 a quarter yes that was the first quarter expect same for 24 for quarters 24 so even if you make it 220 it's 880 total for the year and then you're going to reduce it by the 81,000 the contributions for another 320 out of that there's just a ton of variables I can't answer definitively on so again I say this respectfully I ask this not to be the line that you try to Penny pinch down I I think there's a lot of unknowns and again I don't mean that sarcastically it's just I know we need to tighten things up but I don't recommend it being this line yeah and also I I'd like to I think I'm right but I will stand corrected if need be the three council members here who were on last year when we discussed this it was agreed that we would this line at last year's amount being a transition year and we saw we could drop it to a million um and so I would ask that the three council members you know weigh in on that and vote accordingly um well last year we dropped it to 88 you you you've dropped it to a million 89 Mr Mayor and you only spent 883 and you also transferred another 54,000 out of this line for another item so so there's there's a lot of you know I understand what you're saying they made an agreement last year but this is the new Council no but three out of the five were on the old Council I'm not disagreeing with that number and again uh I know a few times it's been said well we'll find money we'll find money if we don't put extra in this health benefits line in my opinion there's no money to be found you know we we presented a tight budget you collectively had made it even tighter um and so if we need money I don't see anywhere else to take it from come the end of the year when we have to do transf if we have to do transfers but even if you reduced it to you know 825,000 it's still it's you didn't spend that much last year I I will not disagree with that I'm only asking that if that's what the three council members who were on here last year said that you honor your word I can't speak to that because I don't I wouldn't expect you to I Mr Alman I I I I'd like to make a motion to drop this to 750,000 if I just make a comment before you do that um as some may recall I just in generally speaking I'm actually not debating the amounts but I just haven't been in favor of the difference card to begin with so I have I'm not I agree with you MZ I'm not in favor of the difference card either having gone through a form of of it wasn't a difference card they took us out of a program put us into another program and now we're back into the original program because the savings weren't there I've gone through this I don't I don't I don't know I hope the difference card works because it's a big savings 167,000 I'm you all collectively have the authority if you don't agree with it fully funded for that one plus million and and we'll drop the difference card and nobody wants to do that because you found the well I'm hearing two of you say you're not in favor of it I I just don't I I'm hoping the the the savings really come to fruition because I've seen we all do I've seen a lot of municipalities try this and it and it didn't come to fruition and I'm hoping that we're one of that's another reason to leave it funded Miss if we don't hit the target at least we have some extra money in there yes are you going to expand on either another option or why you're not in favor of it um well from from day one when this was introduced I do acknowledge that there is a a large savings however in speaking you know to some of the employees they were um rightfully so concerned um some of them with Healthcare issues and there have been since the first presentation till now there have been some significant changes in the program um so I I will say that that I know the state came in and and upped it uh but generally speaking I feel that the way the world is moving right now um Health Care is is an absolute need without interference so that is why I'm not in favor of changing our employees healthc care plan this they know what they get it's guaranteed and I do hope that because of the savings that this does work out um and it was my opinion that or my question if there is a problem and it shows that it's not working favor favorably could we go back could they go back and the answer was yes that's correct based on what the state had at available at the time but to answer my to to to wrap it up um I just don't want to change their health insurance so I would be in favor of of the mayor's um opinion I mean I say let's drop the difference card and keep their health benefits as they just to be clear that's not my opinion it's an option you on the council have I'm sorry but but the but the count the previous Council voted for yes because there's a savings everybody the previous Council and then this Council had to had to formalize it previous Council voted to leave the funding at a million 89 so no no no but they but they they entertained this difference card back in October or November of last year when it was presented to them and it was all favorable to everybody then and as this Council because Mr Dar Carlo presented it and we had the representative also um give us a presentation so that that the ad Administration has gone far beyond trying to make this happen and bring us savings absolutely so I don't argue and I do appreciate the effort that has been made to bring the savings I I'm I'm I'm I agree with the effort and I hope the savings really comes to fruition um I'm I don't like playing with Healthcare either because it's an important everybody's family uh the better coverage we have I mean you know the state health benefits 10 is you know the is the Cadillac of plans and that's why it's the most expensive out of all the plans but it is it is a very you know strong plan and it costs the most and that's unfortunate because most employees deserve that plan because of underlying conditions or anything that need to have that kind of coverage so um but with the employee contributions coming in at over a quarter million dollars for this line item and putting money back into it I like to make a motion to reduce it um sir 750 wouldn't even 800 then because it's a 266,000 employee contribution so if I'll make a motion for 800,000 can we I don't want to be negative but when it runs out of money before the end of the year we will play this part back that's fine part of meeting that's fine our recommendation is staying at a million that's fine my motion is for 800 if anybody wishes to support it I that's my motion I just have one last comment you know this is a new um Venture and I do believe that it should be funded at the amount that is being requested my no vote is in general generally speaking because of the difference card but if you are going to move forward with the difference card my opinion is that it should be funded at the full amount because we don't know what it's going to look like okay thank you Michael if if we have a a known fixed expense at this point of 447 is that right what what known expense you talking about the first half of the year I can't it's 218 218 Time 4 but because we're only this is only going to go through assuming we um switch on July 1st we would have two quarters of it okay so 218 or 220 440 is 440 or 880 well I'm no I'm going to go I want to go 440 okay so 440 I'm right that we're we're assuming we're going to move to the difference car okay yeah so 440 yeah plus the 10 for the waiver okay so that's 450 so that brings us to 450 why you only add 10 remember that's not included in that 218 so the 10 is for the first half of the year for the waiver yeah but what about the rest of the year no he's just addressing the first we're just doing the first six months I I was trying to do it very getting comfortable mward Mike continue so you're at 450 440 and 10 that good so for the second half it's another 10 Y for the waiver thank you I would like to based on the numbers we saw on that schedule I would like to figure out what is the known expense for the second six months well I'm saying if you take the 460 and the 460 just stay with the same plan like M the last wanted like let's just call it stay in state health benefits no no so that's 460 increase though so no that's 460 * 2 right 460,000 time 2 which brings you to uh 1 million no 920 oh 920 $920,000 correct you have an employee contribution of let's call at $266,000 so you deduct that from that can you just tell me how so I can follow along very slowly how how did you get to the 260 81 * 4 I I reded the 8 it's 320 it's even more so I'm not trying to deduct as much as the employee contribution right because you got to remember the contributions will be less so that 81 you can't count on that's why I made it 260 266 okay got it I'm reducing it because I know to change how you got the 266 well that was the original number you had given us is the 266 in place I never when did I say that that's what we have in the book I have it in my book we said at one point time I don't know who said that but but it's it's more it's 81 * 4 so it's 320 you know 4 or whatever it is so I'm saying take the 920 and you deduct the 260 from it right which brings you even lower than that wow brings your way down so I'm saying make it 800,000 or funded for the 850 which is approximately a little bit higher than what was spent last year for the state health benefits plan I mean call me a fraking idiot I I getting tired what you say I just did the employees are going to kick back $266 $60,000 to that the total pay yeah but so at that point why aren't we just keeping the the old plant yeah I don't know why K I mean it correct me if I'm wrong we're saying in q1 Jan 1 to March 31 y overall health was 286 gross 286 y contributions were 81 brought us to 218 yep 28 * 4 is less than what we have budgeted is 8 872 I mean what am what am I missing here is there an escalation in that first in the first quarter are you saying yes Mr cor uh just keep in mind that 81,000 actually represents seven pays of employees contrib because the first one is actually from the last P of last year so so the first it's still the first quart it's still the first quarter yes right but but so the 81 is is a little bit Bloom because of that fact but the 286 is based on a premium of the what is it 10 Health 10 whatever direct direct New Jersey direct t and is that is that the new rate is that the current rate that's the current rate that's the 2024 rate I mean are we like we're I feel like we're moving shells here we are so what do what do you what is when you say call you an idiot what why what well because can you speak into the microphone I don't know if that should have been recorded anyway well because we're talking about savings and you know there's numbers in these run rates of over a million okay if we have a known cost of 286 for the first quarter and I know these numbers need to be TW tweaked I understand that Mr corkland but if we if we say it starts at 290 and we take out 80 210 a quter times 4 is 840,000 cor so if we stayed where we are we're looking at net premiums of $840,000 which is a little bit less than last year's total payout of 883 which included a $53,000 transfer so so there wasn't a big difference in savings so my only question is when I look at that schedule I mean where where's the saving by going to the difference card well you're not that 96 isn't um I don't think it's I don't want to say I don't think but it's not representing the employee contribution part of it so the savings is already 1,76 th000 down to 1 million I told I remember when you our last discussion I think I even started with you guys are probably going to be right there's going to be leftover money there we just feel comfortable with that leftover money because we have unknowns I can't give you the historical data right you we can't go to the audit Trail and say this is what it cost last year because it's a it's a new program but Mr Dar Carlo if we were to abandon the the the health card right now and say do not go down thatout stop right now the council I'm I'm making a general statement I know everybody's not make that but I I think what we're saying is if you say stay with direct 10 for 2024 MH we're we're talking about a difference so last year we spent 800 in this line we spent 8 83,000 right my eyes are playing games with me right with a with a with a $54,000 uh transfer out of this line so we spent a total of 830,000 let's call it right if we stayed with direct 10 in 2024 at the current premiums that Mr corkrin has given us here it's only going to cost us $84 $4,000 which is a negligible difference from our 2023 premiums to 2024 it can't be because she the projections are $76,000 more what's that is $76,000 more are the projection on that slide that we didn't ask for yeah but but when we take the true numbers that Mr corkman has given us or you given us in the sheet yeah right you say it's 286 655 90 MH minus employee contributions of 81187 right puts us at a net expense with the waivers at two let's call it 220 so if you just take 220 and you multiply it by four that's 880 last year we spent a total of $835,000 so you're talking about a Delta of you know 30 $45,000 to stay in direct 10 but do do those numbers include the increase that the state has that's incl that's this year's premium that's what Mr this number that we have in the sheet is this year's it's the first quarter bill that's that's what I'm assuming yeah Mr corkrin is that a fair statement that on this sheet or on the slide the 286 is your actual bill from from State health benefits right the 286 65590 right the 286 is the first quarter expenses and and like I mentioned the 81 is for seven P so really more accurate it's it's probably closer to like maybe 68 or 69 so it like in approximation if you took the 286 and subtracted around 68,000 maybe uh that would probably be your net I mean I'm but I mean basically but it still puts you at 220 so you're saying so you're saying that we could stay with direct 10 direct 15 still lower the line to less than a million all right are you willing to table it so I can work on this until Wednesday to give you a sure yeah but but you understand where we're going with this Mr toar right we're not we're not trying we're not trying to force your hand but the numbers if these numbers are correct that's presented to us the whole plan for the for fiscal 2024 is only worth 880 and then you know and when you take out the with the employ you know the employee contributions coming back that's all it's worth is well you'd still save you'd still save an additional 160,000 on that on top of that difference because no there's no the whole plan if you stay in direct 10 right now and you multiply the numbers that are given us on the sheet right you take the 286 minus even if you change it to Mr corman's new number of 68 70,000 right that lowers you to 216 per quarter you make it 220 that means for fiscal 2024 it's an $880,000 liability for direct 10 let me just do let me you know my brain's fried at this point mine but but you understand where we're going yeah just let me talked with our health benefits coordinator I think we're I think I think that's where we'll stop at the we'll stop on this at the end of page 25 for tonight well you just have a couple more people oh we have to yes we do have to go into close motion motion to go into close section to doe to three employees second hold on one second I'm sorry let me just get to where I I'm sorry motion uh Mr Sears and Mr Casio so resolution number 24-3 213 person various departments motion to enter into close by Mr sear seconded by Mr Casio all in favor I Ricky will be down to put us into closed we are not coming back from closed the game and theost and long you know so grab the rain Take the Wheel lose what's not and keep what's real it's not