all right the board's left executive session and regular session uh I ask everyone please rise for the flag salute I pled aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice [Music] just a reminder that the meeting is being videotaped andone not wishing to be seen on television may be excused before uh before we start I just want to make a a little announcement the board I'm sorry before we start I want to make a uh an announcement if you're here the board has met and uh has found a way to restore some position so if you're here for the following four counseling positions will be restored eight hall eight Hall L uh monitors positions and restoring time and benefits for all assistance so if you're here for that so are you g to go into more detail about what was found and why it was decided for that and what the repercussions are for the issues with the budget that l there's going to be a vote to raise the taxes probably answer um yeah later on there'll be a vote to raise the tax go to raise taxes can't hear you Ralph why is there special rules for people Ralph why is there special rules for people that they can yell out because they're part of your political nonsense Hey Ron keep quiet no I'm not going to keep quiet you guys got to let the meeting proceed without interruption please we'll be ra there'll be a motion to raise taxes that's how we we'll restore the positions let me explain it yeah okay guys let me explain it so the the governor allowed school districts two options the first option was if they lost money this year which was not us you were allowed to recoup about 45% of that so that was not us so we couldn't recoup it so the only other option because there is no extra money is for the board to raise taxes now we had what they did was they took the they measured 2024 2025 from a in 2020 2021 and the board had access to approximately between two different areas of Bank cap about 2.4 it's approximate million dollars so what is happening right now Janine is working feverishly to to fix this agenda item this will allow us to bring back uh four counseling positions eight Hall lab monitors and to restore the benefits and time for all employees before it was you know we we were initially looking at years 9 through 15 to restore but in executive session the board agreed to look at the benefits and time for all assistance so that will come through a a tax raise so just so you know the resolution that's on the agenda is changing it's actually very hard to do this J feverishly trying to do it because there's a lot of calculations that has to go in the the agenda item is changing so it will not be what was there the initial thought process just so you understand and was to to save um the four counseling people the folks the eight Hall lab monitors restore the benefits years 9 through 15 and the initial discussion was to actually take about $400,000 to put into uh one-time project projects uh not because we value projects over people it actually would have allowed us to utilize our Rod grants for those of you that don't know the state has allowed us access to uh 40% funding from the state and that would have allowed us to do an HVAC project and then the thought process was was to placehold that money for next year when we know that we're going to have additional cuts that is not the pathway we traveled the pathway we traveled was four counselors eight Hall lab monitors and Resto ing all the benefits for our assistant folks okay that's and that's where we are so what's going to happen is that will appear under Finance um and that's where that will be voted upon and then what we'll have to do after that is that today we have to vote on the agenda item we're going to have to have a new budget hearing which will happen in July and then we'll have to submit everything like a normal like a normal budget would be does that make sense okay thank you DRS you got it sir no presentations any discussion school and community relations I have that okay give me two secs so sorry okay uh quick reminder that our food bank is scheduled for July 17th behind the 910 wing of Washington Township High School sorry my phone went crazy uh clients visiting the Washington Township Public School's mobile food pantry are asked to enter the back of the Washington Township High School 509 hille Cross Keys Road so off the ganttown road entrance park near the basketball courts where the pantry will be staged clients will be asked to provide proof of residency at the time of registration uh for graduates uh big congratulations to all of our 2024 Washington Township High School graduates as well as a great big thank you to all that made this ceremony possible uh sincerely appreciated definitely want to thank the advisers who put so much time and effort into the the painstaking details that go into graduation for those of you that attended it was a beautiful night and a wonderful ceremony uh we were very thankful for the weather because surrounding districts were definitely not as lucky as us uh it was absolutely beautiful uh special thank you to all those who donated or joined us for the Washington Township Educational Foundation golf outing yesterday at White Oaks Country Club this fundraiser is an immen undertaking to provide our staff with the opportunity to apply to purchase additional instructional supplies experiences speakers or equipment that would not otherwise be available we are so appreciative of the efforts of the entire wtef but especially those that prepared and work the event uh so thank you to everybody who attended uh and thanks for for Charlie who uh put really everything together uh and he had a birthday yesterday too so uh special thanks to Charlie okay uh and that's all I have sir okay thank you correspondent I have a motion to approve the letters of discipline and the correspondence under the correspondence listed motion motion second second second all those in favor iy Ralph just real quick yeah just under correspondence um there we only have six things listed and I know there's more than that so just another reminder to everyone if you get any emails um we don't all get emails but it should be captured and I know there's a lot missing some things are sent to personal emails some aren't but if we're getting something on the board we have to report it in his correspondence so just a reminder thank you y have a motion to approve the minutes for April 2024 so second roll call no roll call no roll no roll no roll call okay I'm sorry all in favor I opposed okay old business any old business I got something go ahead Dave um the heavy heart and much consideration um I feel like now is an appropriate time for me and my family for me to resign from the school [Music] board you guys that's it for me [Music] Dave she can't hear you wish you the best Dave I hereby resign thank you for your time Dave thank you for everything thanks Ste yeah and the other old business okay I just have a [Music] question uh is it the next is it is it the first or second the board meeting that we're going to recognize uh Janis from Wedgewood school for the um first am math uh let me reach out to the family and see what works for the family how's that okay thanks okay motion to uh open to the public on agenda items motion one second okay sorry second second second okay Mark Lopez just agenda items only agenda items [Music] only good evening my name is Mark Lopez and I'm a Spanish te at Orchard Valley Middle School I deliver this speech as a proud Association member in solidarity with my fellow Association members and leaders in a concerted effort to restore the children's programs staff jobs and Trust in our Administration lost by the disputed budget crisis and the subsequent administrative decisions at the last board meeting one of the concerns that I shared was the regards to the lack of transparency and the lack of funding advocacy in the timeline of the disputed budget crisis I stated that the state released its financial aid package to districts on February 29th and that the township family was notified two months later on April 30th of the disputed budget crisis I stated that other locally affected districts had alerted their families timely and even created advocacy plans that included contacting legislators and or busing people to Trenton to speak to advocate for funding for their family's children I had two questions my first question was why was the township and family informed so late to which I received no answer my second question was why didn't Township do the same funding advocacy for its family's children to which I received a response from Dr Hibbs that said that funding advocacy occurred immediately with his encouragement to contact senator Paul morari at the encouragement of Dr Hibbs I spoke with one of Senator morard staff members yesterday at 10:30 a.m. who stated that the senator had a zoom meeting with Dr Hibbs on May 21st May 21st is about 3 months after receiving the state's financial aid package May 21st is three weeks after alerting the township family of the disputed budget crisis May 21st is one week after the laying off of our Township family members May 21st is not immediately once again I state that I do not believe that there is a budget crisis instead I believe that the budget has been constructed by the school business administration Ator to reflect the priorities of the district as set by the superintendent and as approved by the Board of Education I was raised a Roman Catholic but there is a Methodist saying attributed to John Wesley that I love and believe in that states do all the good you can by all the means you can in all the ways you can in all the places you can at all the times you can to all the people you can as long as ever you can changing the priorities of the district by cutting children's programs reducing the staff to student ratio and reducing instructional time at the middle school by 84 hours in the year as exhibited in the proposed new Middle School schedule in exchange for technology and objects is not doing good for children lack of honesty transparency and stakeholder participation is also not doing good for children we are Township we are the township family we need to start acting like a good Township family again this is what I am public LLY calling for from all Township family members starting now thank you to Mr Ross Miss Baker Senor satano and Mr Tomac for doing good for children in your opposition to the original budget I thank [Applause] you I can J let me to say quick quick thing thanks Mark you know what you what you probably didn't ask the question was did did I reach out to his chief of staff and have and try to line up a conversation so maybe you could go back and ask that question and they'll definitely tell you I did for sure um so and it was not in May that I did that so I absolutely did reach out right away but I think the most important thing to take away from that conversation even if I could have gotten to him in the first minute which just wasn't possible his conversation was we were overfunded and he's been saying it for years for sure um also too you know you're saying that we're Trading and objects for people the tech all comes out of the lease so it's just it's just false it's absolutely false that we're doing that if you want to sit down and and and maybe have a conversation about some of the things that you're claiming I'm happy to do that but I I do not think people are less important or you know are not as people are more important than things but the things that we have to purchase all come out of the lease and just so you know this year the move to Chromebooks which really was all my push from GetGo saved us Millions over to Long Haul which will allow us to save more staff going forward but I'm happy to sit down and really address those conversations but I did reach out and I think it's John sain I think that's his name but I did reach out I did reach out immediately just so you know I could just have one reot you're not allowed to do that another car down Jim Arpino you want me to yes ma'am how you doing um I'm going to just include this on agenda items because you uh increased the budget by almost a million dollars am I correct yeah it's probably close to that yeah okay uh we spent $944,000 on new bleachers so I'll just include this in the whole budget thing uh the May 21st board meeting um a comment was made regarding the bleachers that uh three three words were used they're old they're failing and they're a hazard um I'm going to throw old out the window cuz a lot of us are old we don't replace ourselves uh we just make needed repairs so the bleachers are failing and they're Hazard I noticed on Facebook uh graduation the other night I'll just estimate about a thousand people that were sitting on the failing and hazardous bleachers that reeks of uh negligence and I'm sure that if the bleachers were actually failing any Hazard you would have notified the office of emergency management that you were going to put a th000 people on a failing structure your attorney would have jumped up and down and said don't do this the sad thing is we don't have to worry about that cuz your bleachers aren't failing um my Oprah requested from uh Miss wector thanks for getting back to me uh any reports indicating structural damage and or safety concerns with the bleachers I was forwarded the July 31st 2023 uh report from your engineers Remington and Vernick these are some key words from that report good structural condition structurally sound no section loss was observed columns base plates and anchor bolts appear to be galvanized steel and in good overall condition zero section loss or deterioration observed it is recommended from your own engineers in July of 2023 that the existing steel components exhibiting minor rust on the access stairs to the bleaches be sand blasted and properly primed and repainted that's the only recommend for a structural report or any Hazard report that I received under Oprah so I'm left to believe there is no issues with the bleachers because if you're going to spend 9 almost $950,000 a taxpayer money I would hope there's a report saying that this is dangerous because you're raising taxes by about a million dollars um you've cried poor poor poor about your capital reserve but it seems to me that you're like my neighbor you know who doesn't have the money but then comes in with a brand new car um and in during the um budget presentation you said that uh you guys are spending $800,000 on the bleachers same amount that was said last year when it was put in the 23 24 budget that's not true your purchase order to uh Nickerson company who's doing the week on work on the bleachers was signed in July of December of 23 and the total bill is 9,945 666 50 or 50 the original bill was $889,000 $364.14 6,000 $ 56,3 1959 C again can somebody explain to me one if you have as you stated that you have failing bleachers and they're a safety hazard why did you put about a th000 people on them during graduation or can you point me to any other reports that say that there's any issues with the bleachers besides just needing to sand blast Prime and paint cuz this is a lot of money we're spending and there seems to be no backup for what you're spending it or why you're spending it thank you it's Jim right hi Jim okay you uh so the report that you're referring to you are right um the bottom portion of the bleachers we we actually we kept which is what you're referring to the top Port that's 100% true sir you can go look I'm not going listen we can't go back and forth yeah you can you and feel free to talk after because I I I'd have no reason to hide behind a bleacher project which was budgeted into 23 24 so what happened is is that the underneath steel when we we had honestly like four different looks by our architect at first glance they said that it was all okay they had questions about uh the Footers which we had to dig into and look um and then in the end they actually made the recommendation that we do all the bolts because they were they were rotting and breaking off so we fixed all that so the underneath everybody of the bleachers we kept had we have had to get rid of that the the the the project would have probably doubled the triple in price because of the cost of Steel so what the top part is where the issues were which is all being done we're actually now and we don't have you know know in redoing it we're having access for wheelchairs which we don't have in the main which I think there's not many people in here that would argue that wheelchair accessibility is important in this day and age so we're also going to have entrances from the back so the reality is the bleachers were failing there were numerous problems um I I really tried to find a picture on my phone but because they they took off the plastic pieces with all the rotting wood that was there so they were rotting now listen you can feel how you want about bleachers but the bleachers did not affect staff the bleachers were all done in the 2324 budget not 2425 and it's unrealistic to think that even though we are going to have to be really fiscally responsible that we're not going to fix things it's it's it's actually it's it's it's a such a misn to think that we wouldn't have to fix things now you might not like that we did it however the bleachers absolutely needed needed attention and they were years and years old we had broken benches we had to shut down bench uh we we really tried to paint the plastic at some point to make them look presentable it was just their time but the bottom part we saved which saved Township Millions because it would have it would have tripled about in price if I recall correctly it was in the $2.4 million range I think if we did it all okay yeah all good Randy Ford uh Randy Ford so just wanted to ask a couple questions about um three separate sets of agenda items it won't be five minutes so don't worry about that uh the first thing is n38 n41 I wanted to see if it was possible to read what the quantitative goals and qualitative goals that are being voted on I know the board voted on them back in September of 2023 they're not in the agenda tonight they're not in the resolution uh back then so I'd be interested to know what those are uh for 44 through 46 these are all Professional Services first I'll say from what I know about Professional Services the rates seem very reasonable I'm just sort of curious as to why in Prior years you guys went out to bid and this year you didn't um again solicitor 170 from 165 extreme extremely reasonable um but just curious of what the the thought process there was and then on the board resolution for 55 I understand that that's going to be changed uh my question would be that or request would be that when you go through the budget line items if you could read in the resolution what they're going to be and my question is if 400,000 or more is still tied to construction is that 100% utilization for things where we're going to get Rod grants or is it a sub portion and those are my questions so thank you and I'm sorry to see Dave go thank you Randy I'll take the first one um I think the easiest thing to do if you want to look at the the goals in the superintendent's contract is just over a copy of the contract I did this morning okay so I'm sure you'll get it obviously as soon as you need's able she's pretty quick turning that stuff around okay um I can take the I can take the you got the request yeah she's she yeah she's got it um wait R what's your third one I I wrote down Miracle the board resolution for the gotcha sorry thank you what right out on my head um so the $400,000 is not a part of this what it what it would have been is so it on the agenda it is the agenda item is changing right now because the board decided to go and travel a different path what that would have been was the utilization of a rod Grant which we would have put in 60% and the state would have put in 40 but we're not doing that okay and then cycle you want to talk to Randy about cycle yeah so um we have a policy for our Professional Services contracts and we what we do is we every 3 years we do an RFP so there's a bunch of them that we have listed in the policy and then throughout the year the board discusses which professionals are on the threeyear cycle to go out to RFP and if we want to drop one or add one so the professionals that are listed on on the agenda were the ones that were up for Renewal this year and not on the RFP cycle Terry Sher hello good evening thank you for your time and for the response to my correspondence returned by some of the board members these last few weeks um thank you I'm also sorry that someone felt they had to to resign their position tonight um for the best results we sometimes do have to challenge one another but to engage in productive and respectful discourse we must have a Clarity of communication and transparency I think it's been disingenuous for you to say that there are no program cuts for next year as news has trickled down to parents from unofficial sources it is clear while the Administration has done its best to avoid eliminating programs Cuts seem to be Universal it makes it hard to work in Partnership when it's so difficult as a parent to get to the bottom of the important decision points and understand the downstream impacts I don't want to find out on field day that the four classrooms for my daughter's current third grade class will be Consolidated into three fourth grade classrooms next year resulting in nearly 30 kids to a class with just the current enrollment this is a cut if you think it's important you should call it a cut and explain why it's necessary nowhere in your budgetary PowerPoint did you highlight the impact to class size at the elementary level for parents most of you are Educators I'm sure I don't need to waste time on how concerning this large jumping class size is for a parent as I shared previously and in my correspondence I do not believe that the non-renewal of these employees will result in cost savings I urge you to vote to reinstate these employees and positions and classes which is in your power to do so while I do not agree I recognize you feel that the Administration has demonstrated a budgetary savings by simply removing the compon benefits from their spreadsheet for these employees but this will not have the resulted impact to savings for the district this is what I've consulted on for well over a decade professionally for companies with much larger budgets and it's clear large Rifts never in the short-term and certainly not in the long term realize measurable cost savings any temporary additional cash flow is lost in benefits and turnover it's well documented and accepted that large reductions enforced often have higher than expected costs within the same budgetary year budgetary cost avoidance is not the same thing as actual realize savings and planning as if it will have those results is not the path to fiscal responsibility as previously shared these were low paid positions with little room for growth many of those will have to be statutorily replaced for the next school year anyway where are the savings what is the cost to onboard new employees to replace them training screening background checks new employees mean loss of efficiency more mistakes which equals greater risk to the district and loss of knowledge these all have real world tangible costs that you won't find in the district's budget projections there also won't be a dollar for dooll benefit savings as shared by the district there is still no Clarity around how these projections were calculated anyone who has benefits eligible and was not renewed is also Cobra eligible that means if they have a great need for care and elected continue coverage the district will be paying for those High medical claims for 18 to 36 months again where are the savings understanding how the district arrived at these projected benefit savings is a crucial piece but will only ever be a projected estimate why should we help support additional tax dollars when we still don't have a clear picture of the proposed budget in my professional experience I've seen the investment and Personnel have a significantly better Roi than saving for potential future Capital concerns the current approved Personnel Cuts or what's left will not realize the savings that the administrative has estimated for the upcoming school year I desperately want to preserve the wonderful team of people and resources at our school please work to reinstate these value employees programs and classes tonight thank [Applause] youall I have a card Watson and there's no AG I assume it's on agenda items whoever Watson is one one sec to ter um I think we should grab a cup of coffee and have a conversation because a everything that we did it's it's not even a disputable fact that we had a budgetary gap and that we had to eliminate staff to to do that Gap so it we're some of those you the concept of having to bring those people back is just it's not happening because you'd have a budget and I know that you know about budgets especially being with the library right you can't have budget that exceeds what you can bring in which is where we were by about $7 million um so I'm happy to talk to you all about that piece I don't know of anywhere Gretch anywhere for for 30 so I don't that is no and what we do we we always do this over the summer too so we look at enrollment because it's very fluid at the elementary level particularly in K and one where we don't anticipate you know new um students that may have gone to another setting other than our district so we through on a weekly basis report our enrollment numbers and we compare them school by school um we had a situation in Bells this year where we did have a high class size uh and that was really because of space we didn't have the physical classroom space um to add and and for the one-ear bump we just didn't have the space for that one year to wasn't worth putting on a modular unit for you know a large group but we analyze it on an annual basis on on a weekly basis throughout the summer and if a section needs to be put in um or a grade level needs to be changed we do that so there have been many Summers unfortunately where I have to call a teacher and say look the enrollment really isn't what we thought it was going to be in fourth grade and this is higher in this grade and you need to switch um somebody has to you know go down to a different grade level and that happens throughout so we make sure that we're Equitable across and we don't have anybody above 25 to my knowledge right now but if we in upper lower it's really down to like 20 22 so we would address that immediately if that's what that was but why don't why don't why don't we get together and have a conversation I would okay I think you I know I'll email you okay Molly Al Al you missed Watson I didn't know if there was a Watson there is yes everything okay yeah I'll catch you I'll catch you after this one sorry about that it's okay no go ahead go ahead we'll get Bon all right sorry Mr Waton I uh I attended the meeting last month and I asked if there would be accountability or changes in operations as a result of the terribly cruel and Reckless HR emails that were sent out during Teacher Appreciation Week can we get an update on any changes or accountability for that within the HR department Department we also received an update from the wte tea and WTA tspa on June 12th that there were still false claims being made by the administration in regards to the budget shortfalls will this all be balanced on both sides before you approve a new budget and if we find that the budget was misre represented what will the accountability be on either side for the disruption that was caused and finally I would like to ask for a resolution to be passed that all costs associated with rehiring or hiring new people for the positions that are to be rehired for what we just talked about in the beginning of this meeting be released to the public I think the taxpayers deserve to know the cost that they will incur to rehire as Terry said check backgrounds train and share that knowledge across the board for our schools and finally based on the question that was just asked when my child attends Birches next year and our third grade classes move to fourth grade where there'll only be three teachers you're saying that there's not going to be more than 25 people in a class and that's on record if something happens where that's not addressed you plan to address it because I'm going to be here for every meeting until it is okay um so first off um I I've already addressed HR I'm not going to address that anymore um as far as as far as the budget questions to be honest please go back and watch the last couple board meetings we demonstrated very clearly and Janine did that there is no extra money so looking for accountability and people who supposedly have this money there is no extra money and we quantifiably prove that if we had extra money we certainly would not have have cut staff in any way shape or form um but there definitely was a budgetary shortfall it's it's not deniable it's also not deniable that our Capital infusions are down our money from year to year is down we do not hide money anywhere in in vacant positions and we also budget breakage all of those are Hallmarks of school districts not having money please ask other people please reach out to other people you may know reach out to other superintendant email the executive County Superintendent Bob Bumpus and ask him those questions he'll tell you the exact same thing so that's all I have to say about that piece of it um and I I'll be very clear what what what was brought was that we had a class size of 30 which I think Mrs Gerber addressed that we don't so you know you are always welcome to advocate for your child for sure um but we talked about the class size at 30 that is not accurate so we will monitor that just because I believe she said nobody yeah so what happens I'll tell you what happens and has happened in any school district that I've ever been in all summer we we monitor enrollment on what is essentially a weekly basis because what ends up happening is that we work off a projection right so but you don't know that you could have 10 or 15 kids actually leave a grade level and that could that could lower it so as what what Gretchen really was saying was sometimes you have to make that hard phone call to a teacher who was supposed to be in third but we don't need third and they go to first so we monitor but we we have to also what I'd ask everyone to understand is that there is a pot of money that we have here and we do our very best within that yes we do have to fix things and yes we do have to add sections so as necessary the specific question was what would you do if you had 30 kids in a class if I realized at any point we had 30 kids in a classroom at elementary I would look right away and say fire go let's go I mean fire I mean hire you know let's go get on it and and take care of that CU that's just that's way too high now could could a classroom end up with 25 or 26 yeah and I'll tell you exactly why that happens so we watch it all the way through so let's say they're sitting at like 22 or 23 and it's August like 18th and then August 25th we have four five kids that come in that push it up a little bit when people already know their their teachers or whatever that's released that's when we're very reluctant to pull that back because then Johnny knows they have Mrs Smith and now they don't have Mrs Smith and you have to go through that hiring process so we try to do that way earlier on but it's not an exact science because we can't control when people register so and what I've seen over the last few years um especially since covid is that people tend to register late they really come in in droves at the very end and it's very hard in that moment for a lot of reasons number one we have to post the position which takes time then you have to interview and then what do you do in the in the meantime so at the very end that's where we get caught on sometimes in that moment if we have time to plan we always try to do good good job with that Gretch did I hit the nail on the head with that one y okay just Ral as a as a point of order we just allowed a rebuttal sorry I won't no need to apologize that's something we control and because we allowed it we're going to have to allow it for everyone you don't have to apologize it wasn't directed towards you in any way but as a board you can't have one person again we're we're not going to allow anymore but I'm just saying if somebody else comes up and wants to rebuttal then I'm going to say you have to allow them to rebuttal because we cannot it was a fast rebuttal before I or not I'm just I'm I'm sure well I'm going to I'm going to argue for the next person that wants to rebuttal I'm going to say you're allowed to rebuttal again not directed towards you please it's not your responsibility I'm just saying we have to you have to be fair and Equitable to every single person and if someone wants to rebuttal I'm going to hit my mic and say you should rebuttal because we have to follow the rulesi M Watson Watson Watson the school board still does not cover the differences in this community that's one wow they started me quickly the other guy they let have several other minutes and he talked and then they put the five minutes on but that's good I'm here because once again in order to try to make a real change in the educ ation for some groups of children you have to start in the middle class with what is called the white women in the suburbs and the young white teachers to make changes because it is very important that we end some of the ignorances that is continuing in this Society it may look like black exploitation where you see all of the commercials and shows that African amans are on but on the inside the racism still exists and here is a perfect example because you still even in this day and time you still do not have what I would say a diverse panel that covers everyone in this community but now I only have a few minutes so I noticed that the time is ticking really quickly and I want to do several of my arguments first the first argument is that you must make changes in what you are teaching young people at the core level because half of them are learning stuff that should be wiped from The Learning Materials such as Indian the word Indian is really a derogatory just like the word because Indian is what Christopher Columbus in confusion called people of the nation Cherokee Navajo because he confused Patel sing Indians with Americans and he called them Indians is still being taught in school books and every day on television you have Cowboys and Indians and the change come from Young mothers and young teachers who say we are not going to allow this formula of ignorance now I said white and black are separational tools that was created by my white grandfather a long time when you look at me you automatically want to say that I'm black black is derogatory I don't care how many people say it it's derogatory I'm not black I'm not a color I'm a being a human being and to everyone here I'm your little sister whether you like it or not and what happened is you're not training young people to wipe out colors you're not training young people to think about who we really are that's why so many kids in this neighborhood do drugs and that's Everywhere You isolate them you intimidate them you cast them out you shun them you make them think that they're supposed to be something that they can't be when they can be everything they want to be you put labels and you classify and you cannot have a conversation with someone when they think that they're here and they try to make you think they're here you're not having a conversation you're not having a rebuttal you're not having anything you have a closed mind closed eyes everything shut off you're going to think what you want to think and you're going to place what you think on other people you're not opening up anything and you're not changing anything because conversation is when two people can communicate equally without hate and ignorant I should be able to say anything to you and you not take it the wrong way and you do and that's the problem and that's why change is not occurring so no matter what you say there still need to be massive change and you have to start with young moms and young teachers because the old people they're not going to change too much when I see the Italian Jo a real say in the history of Italy no African have ever touched Italy and in fact they will say what about the G time but for people who are in their races that's a reason for them to hate what I'm saying cuz I'm trying to say inclusion change you can't change if you can't listen like ignorance like if you laughed at anything that I said that's your intelligent level poor people laugh at some things Lanny Bates um good evening members of the board my name is Delan Bates and I am a seventh grade student at ovms I want to talk about some changes at our school district and how they affect us our music and art teachers are very important music teachers do a lot more than just teach us a song they pick the music plan for many different music classes help with margin band school musicals the pop pop concert and competitions and trips they also help us practice either in groups or oneon-one these activities help us learn teamwork and grow our talents our art teachers also do a lot they teach us different kinds of art design props for school events organize art shows and create morals that make our school look beautiful these projects help us be creative and feel proud of our school but now some classes are being cut and advanced and basic classes are being combined this makes it hard for everyone to get the help they need also many teachers might have to travel between schools because we don't have enough staff this means their classrooms are closed when they are not here and we miss out on extra practice and help the school day is now about 30 minutes shorter so our class periods are shorter too and our teachers have more work to do in less time they might have to use their prep or lunch periods to travel which means they have less time to eat plan lessons and support us to help fix this I ask the board to hire more full full-time staff so they don't have to travel between schools create schedules that reduce the need for teachers to travel during class time keep classrooms open so we can have extra help and practice especially in our music and art our teachers are working very hard but they need your support to keep giving us a great Education and Fun activities thank you for listening I hope we can work together to make our school even better thank you thank you Nick Forte Nick Forte Delan you did a very good job thank you um all the decisions that we made this year were very hard um Mr crano who is in charge of visual Performing Arts um tried to really pair the music teachers with their passions yeah sometimes they may have to travel but there's a lot of a lot of school districts where people have to travel but I agree with you teachers make the difference and the Arts are very very important and you spoke very well welcome sorry hi my name is Nick Forte so I wasn't going to talk tonight but I'll make this brief so it seems to me based on what I observed since March is that this Administration was purpose purposely looking to reduce teaching staff the interaction with Mr yuy from njaa who disputed the budget was painful you fought that process the entire time U not willing to share adequate information um I went to the New Jersey school report card website which is administered by the state of New Jersey and I looked at some basic statistics um the the admin student to admin ratio for Cherry Hill which has a couple thousand more students than we do is 219 to1 ours is 183 to one it's obvious we're top heavy on admins um you're raising taxes above the 2% cap and this budget I believe approves the three new student Dean positions that you asked for Dr hibs you're reinstating whole monitors but teachers are being cut you've talked about catbacks reserves you know for months we've been hearing that over and over again I also spoke with Senator morot uh twice this week he gave me the same same spiel about we got more funding we have a lot more teachers and all that stuff um he did say a couple more pieces of information which I thought was important he advised me that he would advocate for capex projects for our district which at first I thought he was pandering until he advised me that last year he was able to procure $850,000 for our district so I think I have to give that a little bit of creed it's obvious the priorities are not teachers you've made a conscious decision to cut teaching [Applause] staff Mr Mr Forte he uh he absolutely did um and he said the same exact thing to me for sure uh about uh trying to advocate for more capital reserve money but that was the only thing that he could do he absolutely would not Advocate any further for staff we attempted to have that happen and it would not happen um I did not just for the record I did not come to Township to look to to seek to cut staff but when you have a $7 million hole and and in the course of the S2 reductions we did not incrementally reduce staff the way that we needed to so there was no other way to do that than to look at staff sir back line yes it's Pat Klein k l i n e when you use my name make sure you spell it correctly um the reason I'm up here I feel like I am a deceived taxpayer I feel deceived from the board about what's going on I'm confused I wrote words I'm confused first you don't have the money then you do have the money then you don't have the money cuz the state says you have the money where is the money who has the money has it been allocated to something else remember I've been coming to these board meetings money to you've been spend you want to bring the technical school here to Washington Township Public School that was one of your comments Dr Hibbs you also said the drama you spent a lot of money in the drama that we paid um a teacher a stifen I believe and then you brought on a staff member for the drama then you brought her back to do the stifen more money spent HR Director we had an HR Manager here close to $90,000 now you brought in an HR Director no HR experience whatsoever and paying 15 $50,000 hibs we know you are have a little close relationship with that person I did my homework I am confused there's no transparency here you want to increase the taxpayers yes you want to increase the taxpayers but still there was over a hundred jobs cut and you want to give us a bone to bring 12 jobs back come on people your paying a lot of money you're not paying attention and every one of you that voted yes for the budget you now have questions why didn't you ask the questions then before you voted on this budget you passed a budget why now you're being reactive versus proactive you should have been thinking about this prior to that's right I am upset confused there's no transparency deceived this is how I feel as a taxpayer you have not used my money properly youve thrown my money away and I'm very upset about it you need to answer some questions I have another back and forth no back and forth no back and forth you're absolutely correct Carol if you give one person back and forth you're going to have to give us all back and forth information you you made this agreement well first of all let me say why is it that Dr hibs is the only one answering the question don't we have committees when we ask you questions where are the Committees you're saying we're asking the entire board the question why is it that Dr hibs is the only one answering the questions I'm confused once again very confused as a taxpayer and I want to know how is my money being spent if we have money to for these jobs we need to bring the jobs back I already warned you about the technical school ask def efor high school they tried to do it it didn't work not at all matter of fact they were sued and the judge said no to Bringing technical school here in the public school you're trying to shut down and make changes the people are not coming to the meetings I highly recommend the parents you need to start coming to the meetings because this isn't the first time they talked about cutting jobs cutting this doing this making changes in the Dr drama program making changes in the HR I'm just aware HR issues and we're paying a director $150,000 for an HR director position why do we have this happening our money is not being spent wisely thank you hi Miss Klein okay um so as far as the technical school school goes I I I wasn't here for this I don't think but I think this is where depford basically said you're they were not going to allow kids to go to gcit is that I believe so I think that's so we're not looking to do that so what we're looking to do something is like the dely model so in other words we're looking to have some tracks for kids for plumbing for electrical we're looking to not not keep we're not we're not telling kids they can't go to gcit cuz that's a that's a personal call just like if they want to go to St all they go to St so um you know talk a little bit about sha um just just so you know for full transparency I I never had a full conversation with Shan before he interviewed here Sean is probably one of the best Educators I've ever met if you want to sit down and pick his brain about instruction listen pick his brain about instruction I encourage you to do so and you you will be impressed he is he is topnotch we he actually had principal experience too which just so you know that's exactly what I wanted I wanted someone coming here that actually knew what they were looking for out of instruction as his job is arguably one of the most important that we have because the hiring process is actually super important so I I stand 100% behind Sean and he he does a wonderful job um as far as being he does and I'm not going to listen listen we're not going back and forth like everybody else I have that yeah you can't do that somebody just complained about you pleas could you please give her War Mrs come on back and forth one got get it all back and forth no I'm gonna talk this is we got stop please yeah and listen here's here's the deal everybody we can't we can't have that and here's here's the reality you can't do this you have a pathway respectfully to speak your mind but what we can't do if we're trying to speak up here during our jobs and you borderline attack us verbally you can't stay in the room that's what's going to happen so people cannot stay if that's going to happen Okay so I'm happy to address it I'm happy to have a conversation with you are you accusing me of verbally attacking you are you accusing me answer what I'm going to maam you're going back and forth please Mrs Klein please y so it's it's not it's it's actually called disrupting it's called it's called disrupting and meeting wasn't it's called dis exactly so I'm just going to say real quickly Ral this is something dropped the ball Ral you have to why I said rebuttal I'm just goingon to look this I meant you can have a rebuttal comment I didn't mean that we were going to like yell back and forth but yes this is what I opened that I said I was going to hit my mic the minute it happened it has to be control but what's good for one I did not certainly mean that we were going to fight back and forth I said rebuttal has to happen if you had a rebuttal other than just move it on to the next person saying you don't like them or whatever it was but have a rebuttal my rebuttal is you accused me of something that was not true M Mrs K maybe I'm sorry all right moving on Ron lucarini look look okay uh I think you dropped not to waste all my time on this but I think you dropped the ball a couple meetings ago when you let a guy from Pitman from the nja come in and Mrs Baker puts a motion on the floor to let him talk or whatever it was uh for as long as they want you can't have it you know just when you want to hear things that you want to hear will just extend the 5 minutes but anyway uh a couple months ago I I stayed away from these meetings cuz I knew exactly what was going to happen uh I've seen it before whenever the WTA is involved but all this Halo uh I'm not a an expert uh as some of these people seem to be on on finances but basically when I'm done M Dr Hibbs could you explain this to me if I'm if I'm off in terms of layman's terms okay uh and I just want to say one thing that I have some problems with Dr hibs as well but they relate to education and uh that seems to be something that these last few meetings we haven't really talked about how do we get better I think we're number 355 according to uh these different rankings and then the test scores came out because the rankings have subjectivity to them the test scores came out and uh it showed that the rankings uh were did coincide with the test scores I think the highest uh school that ranked the highest was Whitman Elementary everybody else was in the toilet all right and uh that's not Dr hbs's fault okay so but my problem is we're talking about this this other stuff and nobody wants to seem to admit that the 355 has to do with the T tenure of children first schools first and the politics that affect Washington Township and this board of education this guy just resigned because his uh the the ring that he kisses of the guy uh I guess I think his name is Chris milm he's the head of the Democrat chair for Democrat Party he he just got indicted so uh you know I guess Tomac had family uh obligations anyway here's what I want to know about the there was all this H that there was $7 million that we were short which was true but there was all hello that you had it in your dest drawer over in hell and then after all that we came out and basically from what I you know people send me these Facebook things uh they just didn't find it I think even uh Ralph it might have been your daughter actually wrote on Facebook uh well I still think the money's there and it's up to drct hibs to prove that it's it's there huh and then she says I could tell by because Carol didn't say anything I you know it makes no sense to me so he didn't find the 7 million okay and now we're doing what we can do which is put more money towards a tax increase right and saving some jobs now I originally said that I'm for putting even a higher tax increase and saving all the jobs I'm I'm right with you okay but you got to make choices all right now maybe we're not allowed to go over 3.9% or whatever according to what Murphy has to say or whatever what his new uh law that he put in place in relation to the budgets but we didn't find the 7 million that's the bottom line and we had it in the money that we're getting I don't know why people asking where are you getting the money where are you getting the money I think he told us in beginning of the meeting he's getting the money through a tax increase and you can debate what we're spending the money on but if we hire the the teachers back and I'm all for it then according to whatever we have to get rid of the hall monitors right if we don't hire the counselors you know whatever and I just want to say one other thing all this uh stuff about the HR guy um I read a book by David Brer years ago about Congress and you always read about how the military buys a hammer for 700s the percentage of the mil of the budget for the military with those excessive is about less than 1% all right so uh whether he's going to do a good job or not going to do a good job that's going to be the test of time but $150,000 is it going to make up the difference of 7 million all right that's the bottom line to that all right and then I want to talk about the vote of no confidence but I'll do that later in the second session thank you Donna P silly my name is Donna pelli uh I spoke uh previously uh two meetings ago about the changes to health assistance um I met with Mr Sweeny a few weeks ago regarding my job as the uh 910 health assistant and I sent an email to Mr hibs and Mr Sweeney uh prior to that meeting and it detailed in there a uh table with certain employees with their higher dates present jobs and where they've been assigned which is as a health assistant um these individuals have less seniority than myself uh during my meeting with Mr Sweeney I was informed that my job was actually eliminated now I was never even told that well the GetGo um I worked 7 5.75 hours as did other health assistants however only the the Thomas Jefferson health assistant job and mine were eliminated um any other health assistants working 5.75 aside from those with over 20 years service had their hours decreased to 3.5 hours I want to know why weren't all these other health assistant jobs eliminated or why wasn't my job just decreased to 3.5 hours uh to get back to my meeting with Mr Sweeny I'm still waiting for an explanation on these individuals with less seniority than me um who are keeping their jobs uh I even followed up with another email to Mr Sweeney without a response uh which I was told that I would receive um I have one other thing I wanted to discuss and it's about the hallway monitors in the high school um I don't know it hasn't really been discussed I know that you've said who's going to be rehired but is there going to be any kind of changes with all these switches that were made um I want you to realize that in the High School uh in our bathrooms there's vaping of pot of tobacco that these incidences are re uh reported but no action is really taken because you have to be there and actually see the person doing it and all this stuff so um there's some students who won't even use the hallway bathrooms because of these things um also students walk around the halls texting some with passes some without almost every period like they're frequent flyers so this is with monitors in the hallways which you know there's no backup so um I don't even know what's going to happen in the fall it's just going to fail uh also in the 910 Health office there were more assessments for possible drug use than in the past seven years this year um so I've worked seven years and now this is the worst year thank you thank you Tom balero hello everyone um I've done budgets my whole life 33 of them to be exact it's probably why I have no hair um I will say I've watched all of the meetings and you know it's painful I've been in involved in two budgets in my life where I had to have a reduction in force um now if you have strong management and hold accountable you do get the savings it's you know you cut the jobs you have to change how you lead um you know you never want to see anybody lose a job ultimately the first time I was in it it was when I was a new accountant it was deemed to me a failure of leadership and I believe that 100% you don't get there in one year you get there over a period of time um but make no mistake we need to be better leaders how you react to this will be very important creating sustainable budgets making sure that we don't go through this again um is something that you we need to make sure now one of the things I do because I do budgets uh I love to look at data and great thing about schools it's an accountant dream every school is required to put out a budget in the same exact format so stupid me I went and got 12 school dist districts around here and I compared everything cuz I I just needed to see I nobody can tell any nobody here can say whether there's money or not can't but I will tell you when NGA says that there are balances to take money from That's dangerous because balances is not income income is what budgets are based off of when you it'd be like at home if you make your income and you take your cash balance in your bank account and you use that as part of your budget you're going to run out of your cash savings at some point it's not sustainable that's dangerous but when I looked at all these surrounding districts Washington Township has the luxury of Greater Revenue per pupil than just about every District uh there was only a couple that were higher um which means we can spend more if ever there was a magic formula and this is all fact if ever there was a magic formula that gave every District the same amount of money per student student we'd have to cut $10 million okay everybody needs to understand that we're not making anything up here now we have that luxury of a high higher budget and we spend it not only do we spend it we spend it to a greater degree the amount the percentage of dollars that we spend on our direct staff classroom and support is higher than the average school district in South Jersey okay so anybody think that this district is short changing our kids by cutting staff it's wrong 100% I put together a complete analysis Dr Hibbs I sent it to you today um I still have great concerns about the budget we have $300,000 in our capital for this year the average District of everybody that I put together was about 3 million okay understand when you defer maintenance on your buildings it doesn't go away that is a battle you will lose every day of the week emergencies will come up I guarantee you will spend more than $300,000 on Capital this year um we're not in a great state right now because of the way our revenues have plummeted I'd be worried about more revenues going down in the future just based on again we get we have more money than most a culture change is needed we didn't get to this budget problem in one year we didn't get to this 355 ranking in one year it happened over time and I need we need this board to stop doing what you're doing stop trying to throw the super and his administration under the bus support him give him a damn chance to do his job I have no clue whether he can do this job but I know he can't do it if you don't all support him we have nothing to lose he's here he's not going anywhere support him yeah I'm looking at you guys okay stop it support thank you Mr bazaro I have a motion to close to the public so move second second all in favor I opposed okay hey Ralph just as a point of order we have a another card here but the person already spoke so if you just want to there's another card up here that will be for the second public comment cuz you can only come up once for every public comment so I just want to make sure you know it wasn't forgotten but and there's another one here but it just can't happen in this pop comment it'll be the next okay uh like to make comment well yeah go ahead okay I just I just want to make a comment there was a comment made that cutting staff as in her students uh we've heard from several people over the last couple meetings and one of the concerns I have seriously is uh in the art program the when obviously there had to be some staff cuts and there was a a change in the implementation of the program at the middle school at the middle school you have identified student in art that are gifted and we have a policy on gifted and talented it says that you're going to group those students homogeneously in a class we also have a separate curriculum and the curriculum mirrors the first year at the high school just like we have in foreign language our students that do well in foreign language can move right into the second year of a foreign language so when we when we look at the unfortunate situation of cutting staff it does hurt kids because what's going to happen we're going to still have that program but during the course of the year as the marking periods change for the cycle there are going to be students that are going to be cycled in who have not been identified as gifted in art so now the burden is on the teacher the teach two curriculums you hear a lot in education about differenti curriculum teaching different levels of kids and all that kind of stuff it all sounds good you know it sounds good on paper but the reality is when you're in the classroom and you're dealing with uh behaviors and levels of kids that are you know really high and really low it it becomes a real Challenge and our I think our staff does a great job so I want to say to the board you know uh we're going to be looking at at a situation right now with money but you know is there some way that we could we could somehow make sure that for instance um I had asked a question and I know Mrs wer has been very very busy I asked the question we we have to on our budget kind of look at extraordinary Aid we have to put a number down there and um I talked to some people through our through our association the Schoolboard Association that lots of times that's that's a place where a ba can put a number down and then we get more money we don't find out about this money until like July I understand so the question Mrs wector I've been asking for a few weeks now is that and I don't know if you had a chance to look at it historically in the last maybe three to four or five years what kind of money do we get above what we put in the budget and you may not have that you may not have it right now but what I'm saying to the board is if for instance we get money back more than what thought is there some way that we can kind of look at bringing this staff for art whether it be a part-time teacher or a full-time teacher so that we can provide the program that we've had in this District since I think 1989 and and and it's it's a source of Pride for our school district not all school districts have a gifted art program and um it it is it you know know and I know one of the things when we talked about this budget that we did not want to hurt kids and we didn't want to hurt programs and we didn't want to change programs so how can we how can we take a look at this particular program uh you know maybe Dr hibs you have any suggestions and any kind of reconsideration uh what we can do so that we have a we have a program that's running that's identified by our policy and gifted and talented and it's those kids that meet the qualifications to get in there and we're not going to throughout the course of the Year add more students to kind of balance the classes where it it presents a problem in there I think that's what that young lady tried to explain okay and and I don't know if she she it was her that spoke the week before or the meeting before but somebody else talked about it and I've heard about it so what can we do is there some way maybe maybe if if if if somebody retires and we're able to combine some classes okay you know social studies teacher leaves and let's take a look at the configuration of numbers and not just hire another social studies teacher maybe we could bring somebody back for the art program um can I just say something um I I have art and music kids um my older son was in the acceler art program he's going to be a junior it's hard to imagine he's going to be a junior um it's he's in an intensive program in Philly this week so art and music is extraordinarily important to myself my kids and my family um do I personally know exactly how it's going to happen no but um I do have faith in Dr Hibbs that any decision he makes truly is kid focused and I do believe it will work and I do understand I had concerns too how they'll make that work differentiate and and things like that but I think we know if we could afford it of course but I think we need to give the administ chance to make it to make if we're talking about you know exercising our our um our ability uh to to um and we're and we're not the public needs to know the amount of taxes that we're raising is not as high as we can go isn't that correct that's correct okay so you know I don't know if you need a part-time art teacher or you need a full-time art teacher or two full-time art teachers H you know that's something that we want to look at uh with our abil our ability to raise taxes just because again I'm going to go back cutting staff does hurt students okay and and and it happens to to affect this program it affects affects it big time now you know what again I think somebody else mentioned it's about priorities okay that you know is this is this a program that's not doesn't have a whole lot of people behind it compared to maybe if you have sports all right I'm just saying that you know we got to be a voice for these students is it it's our students suffer from this it's not right so um okay just a quick just a quick what can we do do do we want to consider consider can we discuss this committee meeting committee well I'm I'm just well why I'm I'm I'm putting ass out out there and I think it's appropriate okay am appropriate what I'm talking about I'm not talking about individual teachers correct okay I'm talking about a program all right we have not we have not uh voted on on raising the T we voted we voted we talked about it okay in executive we came out and told the public what we're going to do and I'm just saying are we able to revisit this right this moment and let's I'm listening to the people and they're coming up and talking and that it's making me think about some things so I'm raising this up as a result of what I hear from the public speaking to us and I think that's why we have public comment because we need to hear what you have to say con how how do we put how do we put programs in the last minute how are we going to put programs in the last minute the administration no we have a program we have a program in place the program is being readjusted because we had a cut staff we have an opportunity to bring the staff back if we if we feel this program is important enough so just can I just saying I don't know Connie just for clarification I think you're referencing referencing District policy 2464 gifted in talented students and I'm just looking in here and you may say it and I don't you referenced about gifted and talented being homogeneously grouped I don't see that in that Pol this policy so I'm just going to punt it back to either doctor hibs to ask question or someone but I just I'll go back I'll go back and find the policy I had it says that when this when the district identifies students a group of students correct that that are Advanced for their for their age okay so we have students that are Advanced for art that's that is we call it gifted and talented I I understand gifted and talented and I'm gifted and talented though okay so I'm looking talented art does not fall under under gifted and talented that was my next question and look I'm I support the Arts my kids are in the Arts I'm not saying I'm anti-art I'm just asking the policy that you referenced of gifted and talented I don't see anywhere where it's homogeneously grouped and if that's something that we want to do then Mr Serano if you can add that to the policy committee to look at that policy cuz I don't see it here I'm reading it in front of me and I just want to make sure we're accurate what do I'll look it up myself 26 what it two what I just 246 and what Dr Hib just said is that Arts is not included in that is done included in what in that gifted and talented am I correct I I just want to make sure CH the policy let's talk about the curent let me let me address so as for those you that don't know what we're talking about there is going to be two levels of kids in a classroom which is going to have to be managed for next year um art is very important and so is music and so is foreign languages and so is everything else that we do the problem is is that when you have to cut you know there's there's been there's been varied opinions on whether or not that we had a budgetary shortfall which is 100% accurate there's a real budgetary shortfall that we had to deal with and I want to say this very clearly so if everybody can just make sure they hear this there's going to be another one next year there's going to be another one we don't know exactly what it is yet but there will 100% be a a a shortfall for next year we're still figuring out what that is which is why we're trying to be as fiscally responsible and try different things to save money uh and save Millions which we actually did this year through the budget process had we not have done what we did we would have had to cut a tremendous amount of staff over and above and it's it's it's not debatable it's not so can we watch for next year and monitor and listen and if we can collapse sure we can always be reflective and we are but we are where we are right now but the reality is is that there's there's not extra money that we have lying around and I quite frankly I'm we've addressed this this is asked and answered probably a hundred times you want me just reference the extraordinary go ahead um I'll just reference the extraordinary Aid so um th this was discussed in previous meetings but extraordinary Aid is is a revenue stream but it's a reimbursement we have to project basically it's a reimbursement for our neediest special education students that we have to apply to the state at the end of the year so we have to support those students all year at the end of the year we apply to the state in May and we don't know how much of a reimbursement we're going to get until August the state only gives a certain percentage of what we apply for it's one of those um again revenue streams that I've talked about if you've been watching some of the meetings where you can't project it and if you over project it and say budget a higher amount and you don't achieve it you're creat a bigger budgetary gap for the next year um another point that I mentioned is if you heard me talk about Surplus we do use Surplus every year to balance our budget that is a result of excess Revenue re we receive and unspent Appropriations we are not um putting back in as much as we're taking out if we were putting more back in then maybe you would look at a Revenue stream like that and say maybe I can be more aggressive we cannot be more aggressive because we're not making that number up each year and every year when we start out our budget we're not going to have the level of surplus to balance it okay I just want to respond to Mr Chilla in that policy 2464 it just said I was looking at at the at the second paragraph for the purposes of this policy gifted and talent to students means students who possess or demonstrate high levels ability in one or more content areas when compared to their Chron chronological peers in the district to require modification of their educational program to to achieve their their capabilities what I'm okay I'm I'm I'm looking at that as these are students who are gifted in this particular area of the Arts and they are grouped accordingly and when they're grouped together they're grouped homogeneously that's how they've been done in the past no in that policy does it say that nowhere in that this policy does it say I'm just saying because I I've talked about this a lot in terms of agreeing with you about homogeneously group homogeneous grouping for gifted and talented and it has happened as pilots in this district from the last term that I was on this specific policy does not reference anything around homogeneous grouping I'm just saying it doesn't I'm not saying I disagree with the theory I'm saying this policy that you referenced doesn't doesn't talk about homogeneous grouping and if that's something that the board wants to discuss we should put it in policy committee to talk about that okay maybe maybe it doesn't reference it and that would be a way to do it my point is that if you're going to group kids according to their their abilities you are it is homogeneously grouping that's all I'm saying whether it's in there the words in there or not thank you it's not so we have to put it in thank you thank you well what is there anything we could do for the for this particular situation or B basically Dr hibs you said that it it's happened in a lot of other areas so we just have to live with it so I think I answered probably 17 times over the course of the last six different meeting that's good enough for me there is there is no yourself there is no extra money to put out that we could do something in my opinion is not the right message because if we had money to save folks we would have we did and we engag in conversations that are going to save some folks to the tax raise we never would have done it any other way if we had extra money to give in any way shape or form we will monitor for next year if if this process is not successful which we will support then we will have to make a change moving forward okay report of the superintendent I have a motion to approve uh superintendent's report items number one one to three so move second second roll call Mrs Baker yes Mrs Bloom yes Miss Chella yes M too yes Mr Li Liberty it's not here Mr Lindsay yes Mr Serrano yes Mr Tomac he he's no long not here that's right he's off sorry he's retired Mr Ross Yes instructional Affairs I have a motion and a second to approve instructional Affairs items number two item number two second roll call I just uh was that was taken off the agenda I just had to come back to it I I see I instructional Affairs number one we we that's off the agenda it's off the agenda Okay good does the public know that moving on two we're voting on number two I item number two okay Mrs Bloom yes Mrs Chilla yes M Mayo yes Mr Lindsay yes Mr Serrano yes Mrs Baker yes Mr Ross Yes policy nothing at this time Student Activities and communication a motion to approve Student Activities Communications item number one sub second roll call this Chilla yes Mr de Mayo yes Mr Lindsay yes Mr Serrano yes Mrs Baker yes Mrs Bloom yes Mr Ross Yes you been resources ask for a motion to approve Human Resources items number 1 to 28 so move second discussion roll discussion yeah sorry uh I just want to we only have one retirement uh this month and that is uh Miss Richard Horn's letter of retirement uh security guard she work 14 years so [Applause] congratulations thank you Sean um roll calls mhm M de Mayo yes Mr Li Liberty I'm sorry Mr Lindsay yes Mr Serrano yes Mrs Baker um on number five transfers 2425 school year uh no to and I was told to give the name is that correct so it's the only way distinguish it right now yeah because there's no other way for the board secretary to distinguish we already know on okay no to Joan natal Natali n a t o l i and Michael MOS yes to the arrest Michael Michael could you say one more time Connie we couldn't hear you Michael could you hear the names yeah okay Michael mclusky Joan Natoli yes to the rest Mrs bloom Mrs Chilla yes Mr Ross Yes Finance uh facilities a motion and a second to approve the finance facility items number 1 to 55 so move second discussion roll call Mr Lindsay yes Mr Tano no to 38 to 41 and yes to the rest Mrs Baker uh no to 39 yes to the rest Mrs Bloom no number 18 I feel like [Music] number 18 toobi I know it can't be changed for this year but I think we need to start working your wife's not working can you guys hear me I know everybody can hear me thank you Sor I said no to number 18 the denovi corporation I know that we can't change it this year but I think it's something we need to bring back back to District we need to work on that and I abstain from 38 39 40 and 41 because I'm not able to vote on anything to do with our superintendent yes everything else cuz I have a daughter who teaches in the district and that's considered an Ethics issue Mrs Chilla yes Mr de Mayo yes Mr Ross Yes because items number 38 39 40 and 41 are contractual so motion carries special education items number motion for items number one to five second M Mr Sano second yeah I got them yes Mrs Baker yes Mrs Bloom money yes Mrs Chilla yes Mr Mayo yes Mr Lindsay yes Mr Ross Yes negotiations nothing at this time any new business on board seeing none moving right along okay motion to open to the public what about J's what about the resolution I I amended it okay all right it's good you okay it's who's already passed yeah okay got you we need a motion to open public motion open to public second okay all in favor all in favor okay okay Mark Lopez [Music] all righty so the first thing I just want to do is uh reassert my uh pride in being a wtea member my second item that I want to do is Express that cutting children's programs such as Elementary uh art uh uh Elementary music Elementary computers uh Elementary counseling uh Middle School Advanced art sixth grade World Language uh does in fact hurt kids and that cutting staff in increasing class sizes does in fact hurt kids so anyone who has an issue with uh WTA and cutting staff uh and disputes whether or not cutting staff and cutting programs does hurt kids uh uh they need to get their information checked second item is uh Cherry Hill superintendent lenpy Regional superintendent had and Township superintendent Collingswood Oakland superintendent all created advocacy plans uh where they encourage their Community to actually actively contact legislators actively call legislators actively put people on buses and drove them to Trenton to speak to legislators I did not see that on any of our websites I did not hear about any of that I received no communication of that uh so I want to I guess give accolades to uh Cherry Hill Haden Township Collingswood Oak Glenn and lenp Regional for doing such an act that we were deprived of and I really wish that for our kids that we would have afforded that opportunity to fight for our kids if this truly was a budget issue how come those superintendents had the courage to do that for their kids I my family lives in Township and I'm proud of being an employee of Township of being from Township I care about Township kids I truly do some of the board members here know me and they know how much I care we were not provided that opportunity that the other superintendence provided uh to their community and it hurts it really does hurt and I feel disrespected uh but I am still proud to be a Washington Township Public School employee I am very proud of being a wtaa member and I do care about kids and and and cutting kids programs and cutting staff from kids uh yeah it does matter and it does have a negative impact I appreciate your time thank you lady debates can I just clarify that the elementary programming that he discussed was not cut so we did not cut art we did not cut the other ones we are no I I think I've expanded the programming that's that's I've expanded World Language to semester courses and we've expanded so there's been no Elementary programming cut may be redelivered by a different person but there's nothing that's been cut thanks French um I just had a few questions because of what some of my teachers have told me I was told that teachers who have been working under 5 years they could be fired but if they were over 5 years they could not I just want to know that was true and then I had another question um who was going to step in for all the volunteer roles that the staff does in their spare time like after school programs fundraisers and special activities thank you John Radcliffe on on no no the superintendent's going to get back to her no an easy you don't want any back you want back and forth or don't you question person so if they phrase it like a question then there's back and forth no it's not a back and forth you're can you answer the question the second question was who's going to step in for the teachers that are volunteering after school and doing fundraisers am I correct and then the first one was teachers getting five before 10 essentially okay Delan I'm absolutely absolutely yeah first off it takes a lot to stand up in front of people all right so here's here's the rule for for tenure which I think was probably discussed with you I have to question why and you didn't do anything wrong um so a four tenure four years in one day um if you're here four years in one day you acquire what's called tenure which means that you essentially have um a safe position unless of course there are cuts that go deep into a specific spot so it's it's kind of a complicated process Mr Sweeney has to manage all that along with the HR department um as far as volunteers go we have to take that on a year-by-year basis but if there's a specific question that I can answer just catch me after or send me an email and I'll be happy to address it with you okay okay Maria pole uhia no I think it's Forte oh Forte I'm sorry like okay all right um I really didn't have anything prepared I wasn't going to speak um but I felt like I have to at this point um I'm speaking now as a taxpayer I was a former employee I was the fifth grade band teacher and I unfortunately uh was one of the teachers that was affected in the budget cuts um I'm not speaking on behalf of my position anymore I'm speaking on behalf of my colleagues um this is a bad idea there's just no other way to put it other than that um for those of you who don't know who may be watching at home who are here uh what they have done is they are making the middle school band and Orchestra teachers travel down to the elementary school so they're right there are no program Cuts just realignments um so the middle school band and Orchestra teachers will be going down to the elementary schools and teaching fourth grade uh fifth fourth and fifth grade Orchestra and fifth grade band so what they're doing is they are having the band and Orchestra basically either in the morning or the afternoon um so they can split their day to go down to the elementary schools to teach um that's it's just not a good idea it's it's it's it's not practical in the long term um it's so much work I was working at five buildings this year um and it was all the same gray level and it was hard to manage don't get me wrong I would absolutely do it again in a heartbeat I absolutely loved my job um but it was hard it was very very hard to manage emails from five different buildings uh different every grade teacher or not every grade but just fifth grade at each building it's hard um and now they have to lesson plan for three different grade level or four sixth seventh and eighth grade band um and now fifth grade band and Orchestra or you know the grade levels are Bandon Orchestra that's a lot of lesson planning it's a lot of extra time with the um after school programming I'm not 100% certain on it but I think I've like heard a few things that there's only after school busing on certain days now for like the middle school for activities I know that these teachers hold after school rehearsals for um Bandon Orchestra on the Middle School level um their contracted time is going to be basic it's going to conflict with the elementary school level and the after school rehearsals that they normally hold um my rehearsals were only allowed to be held at the end of the school day so either 245 to 3:15 or 30:5 to 3 35 cuz that was their the elementary school's like free period at the end of the day that conflicts with the Middle School contracted hours now um so it's either you have to pay them stiens or they have to find a time in their day where they have to fit that in um and as of right now there is no time because I've seen their schedules um they have like I think a 20-minute travel period and not a big prep right it's just their day is jam-packed um speaking as you know the fifth grade band teacher and as an alumni this is so disheartening to see to happen to this program I was in this program when there was aund or not a 100 maybe like 90 kids in the marching band we were a giant group sizes we were winning competitions and marching men we had two different ensembles three different ensembles at some point at the high school this is just it really is a shame to see what this Township and this district has done to the music and the art program and I don't want to speak much about the art program I don't really know what's going on in that area I'm just speaking solely on music um it's it's a shame it really is a shame and I understand that like I said the fine there were budget cuts there were things that you can do but at this point it feels like it's constantly the music and the art Department that is being hurt the most and it really is so disheartening and so discouraging and the I'm running out of time and the the the notion that other districts are doing this I applied for a job in another District where they're adding a fourth and fifth grade baned teacher because they needed more teachers they're building their program so it's not happening in every District it's just happening in this one and that's upsetting it truly is so I hope that going forward you can fix it and be and do better for my colleagues and the students in this program not for me like I said I I truly feel bad for the people who are going to have to take this on next year and I wish you nothing but the best and I love you guys and if you need any help I'll still help because I love you um but yeah I just it there needs to be a better solution going forward so I hope you figure that out all hour [Applause] so I noticed earlier on that we were now referring to them as staff Cuts uh before it was non-renewals this is another issue for HR uh we got a round I guess contract negotiations by calling them not a reduction of force and not staff Cuts but non-renewals this doesn't this issue like this statement put us at risk of being sued for breach of contract with the ngaa also during a reduction of force HR typically reviews the current staff and makes reductions based on the resources needed overall job performance seniority and other things we got rid of all the AIDS and everybody who was not on contract was there any review done based on the personnel and what was needed in the schools in order to determine who was being cut a very important part of HR is to understand salary and benefits and how our company's overall compensation compares to others I am shocked that a quick look because it's all public shows that our Administration is being paid at a higher amount than surrounding school districts I find I just found out that our HR Director makes more than the HR Director at Cherry Hill who happens to have HR experience uh are we doing any salary comp compens ation reviews or overall compensation reviews in order to determine these things as you stated earlier Dr Hibbs I'm sure Mr Sweeney is a great teacher and a great principal but he is not an HR professional he put our children at risk when those emails went out he's not doing his due diligence and looking at what our district needs in regards to staff forces and he is not even making sure that we're paying in line with what other districts offer for our employees what are we going to do about that moving forward and to get back of the issue of classroom sizes based on last year's enrollment burches fourth grade will have over 25 kids in their class right now this is assuming that no more than 10% of the kids do not reenroll roughly um that's eight kids I mentioned that you have your forecasting models but what models are you looking at that are showing us that 10% of our kids are unenrolled in fourth grade we have yearbooks so we're going to be able to see next year who's still in the class and who didn't unenroll and why we had more than 25 kids truly enrolled in the school district when my kid has 26 27 28 kids per class I'm just looking for some answers and the HR position is one that is going to really affect our tax dollars when the lawsuits start coming in [Applause] Angelo Tusa um I wasn't going to speak tonight Angel tuso WT sspa um first I would like to say thank you for reinstating those benefits that means the world to 16 people I know it sounds like just 16 people but it is the world to them so I want to say thank you for that um as you know I always come up here and I'm always respectful and that's not going to change but I do find that I I do need to say a few things first of all I would ask you to please reconsider all the positions that got switched around I know you're saying that they were riff you know oriented you had to do it according to our contract but as you also know we filed agreements on that so I'm asking you once again to put those positions back some of the most important ones and not that we're all not important we are the health a positions are very important they help those offices run smoothly and safely they address every student in the school and I think they are crucial and to put people in those positions that have no experience don't want them didn't ask for them they were put in there with not without a choice so I think that puts things a little bit at risk um same thing with our clericals our clericals help the main offices run smoothly they they help a lot of lot of things that people don't realize they take care of a lot of Records um in the guidance office they're crucial um these are people who do not receive benefits these are three and 1 half hour people they're not 6-hour people they're not a lot of them are not even 5.75 so I would please ask you to do that the one thing that I do have a little bit of concern over is that you mentioned earlier that next year we will definitely um be looking at a budget shortfall and I guess my concern concern is how you going to address that because are we looking at privatization down the road that's my main concern so please I would ask you to reconsider some of the things that I just talked about and please keep that in mind because we don't want to have the same kind of year that we had this year we don't want that year next year people want to work here they're here for a reason they love being here they're loyal they're dedicated they go above and beyond so please keep that in mind thank you [Applause] Jerry terach Jerry terashi I'm the president of the wtea uh I'm going to make it very short remarkably enough uh we've heard for several meetings that this shortfall was not a one-year thing the so-called expert that stood up early La he's no longer in the room said this didn't start this year started prior to this year so My One and very important question is who is on the budget Committee in this district and if this has been happening for a number of years which I even heard the superintendent make reference to that in some of the previous meetings why weren't we warned about this three four five 10 years ago when we keep hearing that it's been going downhill downhill downhill and now we're at the valley the bottom who is on the budget committee and why wasn't the budget committee aware of it and why didn't they alert the staff and the community that this was happening thank you Ron lucarini response no I wasn't what is it a committee that's ask who's on the budget committee who's on the budget committee anybody on the budget committee so five years ago well finance committee is under project let you address that one piece of it finance budget whatever word you would to use y to respond to it why was it this brought up sooner than now I don't know ask Joe borf he was the superintendent all right one sec Ron I think that I don't want to be accused of not responding the current finance committee is Mr Li Liberty Mr Ross um Mrs Bloom and Mr Tomac and if you if you listen to previous um budget meetings and look at previous um budget presentations you'll see the same message over and over again about the loss in state aid about not having additional Revenue sources about having the only place we can go is taxes about cutting positions about cutting things and not having enough stplus moving forward may I respond no no get another card I can't can't get get another get another card can't get another card CU you can only participate once for each public comment if not then Mr Lopez was then denied the right when I said you can't right like then he was denied a right to speak in the first section I'm just being I'm just trying to be Equitable right we can't we either answer it or don't but we can't you can't put in another card because Mr Lopez was denied that right in the first public comment we can't back and forth back J you did it come on Jer ask your question we'll get you an answer all right Mr lini all right um you know the old saying about lawyers you how you know they're lying their lips are moving this lawyer doesn't have to worry about that though we have Mrs Baker on the board uh several years ago you were here at a meeting complaining that they were actually hiring more guidance counselors because when you were a guidance counselor they had three but then they cut it to two and you were talking about the the lack of um the number of students that had uh we had lost and the justification for all this that was one thing now you're up there talking about the homogeneous grouping for the art and I'm all for it I'm all for it but then when you were talking you said uh and maybe a social studies teacher retires and uh once the social studies teacher retires we could just put uh the another art teacher in there um I would make a strong you know we'd have somebody from the public come up and start talking about how we're cutting the social studies program H short so to speak and be quite honest with you Mrs Baker uh if you look at our two presidential candidates I think we need more social studies gifted and talented than we do art at this point in time all right um but the one thing that really struck me is that you know this idea that uh we get a guy Tom bazaro who oversaw a billion dooll expansion of Inspira I think he knows a little something and all he's saying is you can't put a square peg in a round hole basically and regardless of what he's saying regardless of the fact that they didn't find the 7 million in hbs's drawer we still have people coming up and insisting that we can put that square pay in the round hole you got to make some choices so now Mrs Baker wants the art program uh the head of the president for the you know I guess the AIDS and the um support staff thank you she comes up she wants to see these people back in the nurses office and I agree with you they there are a lot of special people in the nurses offices all right but she wants to see them back in you know so I guess we go back to the Ron lucarini budget which I mentioned four meetings ago let's put everything in and let's see how the taxpayers like it all right because I got news and and by the way if we were uh understaffed compared to all these districts I didn't hear anybody object to you know uh what Tom bazaro said then I could see making that case you know to uh keep all these positions but let's put them all back in I don't know if we're allowed to do that and let's see what the taxpayers have to say the one thing we always make a mistake here is there's usually 40 people in a room during these sort of times and they all have an agenda which obviously their agenda is to keep all these jobs and I get that right but you got to remember that there's a guy at home watching all right and uh I don't think they take too kindly to putting all these positions back in all right I don't think they take too kindly to hearing that we have 10 kids in a ninth uh in a math class at the high school I don't think they take too kindly to talking about oh how we need to put these uh kids who are gifted and talented in an Arts Pro you know program I believe in all that Mrs chill believes in all that Mrs Baker believes in all that but the the one thing where I differ from Mrs Baker is I believe in reality all right this is the same woman who told me never don't ever vote for anyone with that runs on a slate and now she's in bed with them okay all right not literally obviously but that's the problem in this District Tom bazaro made a comment that these two or three up here about uh you know get real and stop uh uh obstructing the superintendent just for your political reasons he didn't use put politics and there wasn't a response back Mr Serano a few we meetings ago you voted no to a calendar change that's been going on in this district for years and that change was I guess it was a Wednesday uh graduation to a Monday graduation and I don't understand why you voted no but I do know that I was to an ethics hearing for Mrs kmle uh who is tied to your Democratic party and that was on a Wednesday and in speaking to the lawyers had there been a graduation that might have been another excuse to delay it more all right time's up all right so the time's up anyway uh maybe you could answer that one Sano thank youe lat yes just Randy Ford Randy you're good Randy real quick I want to address Mr trashy's Question so what I would encourage everyone to do and and Mr balero actually did this which was painstaking he went back and watched all the budget hearings going back to 1920 so if you go back to 1920 1920 he look good for something 19 19 2019 I say 1920 when I I didn't really mean 1920 I met like 19-20 all right how about that all right it's been a long night how about that um going how about 2019 2020 um superintendent bandorf said basically this and in quotes we recognize the fact that Staffing reductions are probably going to be one of the greatest things we'll be faced with in the coming years with the reduction in state aid then if you look at the 2021 budget um there were similar comments you know made by by Janine she projected the total future loss of state A is expect to be over $3.4 million uh she also referenced that there's no other way to sustain it because of all of the reductions in state aid so you can go back through and see all those budget presentations and you can you I'm not telling you to watch but it's all right there and it's all about the reductions in state aid it's it's all there okay respon that another card go home it's late go home miss Jerry Jim alpino Arpino all right I just want to Circle back to um the thing that was raised when I uh sat down before um I also you know Miss Klein makes a good point why don't you board members talk to us like I feel like every November I see your signs everywhere you mail me stuff us stuff um you want to tell us all the great things you do but now we have a crisis and there's questions and I don't know if you know I don't know what the the order is if you're allowed to but I feel like we hear you campaigning but this is where you earn your salt and I this is the time that you probably should talk so um I I want to reiterate again my oah request any reports indicating structural damage Andor safety concerns with the bleachers I'm left with the the mindset that this is the only report from REM t ni am I right it like there has to you guys board members nothing against Dr hibs but you guys top of the command chart you vote on the budgets you vote on the spending there had to be some way that you came to the conclusion to make an educated decision to vote for this project like who told you that the bleachers were damaged or were bad and needed to be replaced there has to be something there if there's not that's just not good government like you're spending $9 almost $950,000 and you're telling me this is the only piece of paper that doesn't say there's any damage like that that's incredulous to me um that we're there like there has to be something I was hoping tonight that I would come and I'd hear Dr Hib say you know start bleachers really aren't that big because now I go back to my first point if the bleachers are that big then hell did we or you as a board we as taxpayers assume the liability of putting people on them your attorney I I'm sure would agree here I'm not an attorney um I know I was a fireman a fire chief and if I had pre preconceived knowledge before I went to a house that was on fire that it was failing and a safety hazard I wouldn't send firemen in there so how do we come to a decision these are that bad this the public statement was made that they're failing and they're safety hazard yet they weren't shut down cuz I went there after that meaning to see if they recording off there's pictures of there a thousand people in there like I I just can't believe that we're making the these decisions with taxpayer dollars Mr hibs might be right or Dr hibs might be right they may be bad but we as taxpayers should be able to see a document that says that now we're moving the uh it's it's like we're moving the goalpost here it was safety it was this that now we're putting in 88 compliant ramps well good I don't think anybody have an issue with that but I know 88 compliant ramps aren't going to cost me $945,000 is there itemized deductions or quotes for separate parts like I feel like I'm just going to have to keep emailing Janine and and I really don't want to do that to her she's busy enough but again you guys are the elected officials Dr Hib is right he just came last March you guys a majority most of you here last year except for Miss Bloom Miss Chilla said last meeting a $7 million shortfall doesn't happen overnight you're right in local government doesn't happen year to year and with the out of corresponding catastrophe this has been going on you guys were funding your budgets with Co money if anybody worked with Co money there was end dates on it all along you knew when it was going to end and then it comes out and this is why I have a problem we have a purchase order for $945,000 in December you guys knew there was a problem and the last thing is there's a trust issue I have a trust issue with you guys because again I'll bring up you put up on a budget presentation that you're spending $800,000 on this project but your purchase order say something different that's a problem you have to be transparent why would you just tell us the truth uh thank you for your time [Music] [Applause] now John rod rod [Music] Cliffe yeah we were answering the the student when my name got called so um I fun fact I learned public speaking from Pat Klein back when I was in college so you did I was your professor see I'm just a little bit thinner now that I'm just I'm just a little bit thinner now um but I'm still not great with the the eye contact stuff so I thankfully we have a number of board members who never actually look at the person speaking but uh the last time I was here I talked I called this my favorite by monthly Prime Time drama it still is this is this is up there in the ratings tonight cuz the Phillies lost um but I'm hearing that the art it is okay to put two different levels of Arts in the same classroom um I think that that I think it's a great idea I think that you should make the head football coach also teach freshman football at the same time right that I think that's a good idea that that makes sense to me or if you want to talk about the middle midle School teachers having to now go down to elementary schools or pulling your high school band director out of the building to go down to a Middle School uh it's kind of like a soccer coach being pulled out to go teach wreck right in the middle of a practice that doesn't make sense it just because they can do it doesn't mean that they should um they yeah we want to keep teachers in their passion level uh that's not the way to do it I am a teacher that has traveled I do that it doesn't work I'm telling from firsthand experience it doesn't work uh cuz all I've heard tonight is oh this isn't going to affect students you had a student tell you that it is going to affect students and that's still going right over our head um so I I don't know maybe somebody else needs to come up and say it but it does affect students um them not having that full I'm an alumni of this District so them not having that full level of you know classroom time to work in their art uh great it's a short-term solution but down the road just like we just graduated all the co kids who started behind a screen and we had to work for four 3 four years all of us uh to get them to try in the classroom again uh and get them back to that level you're now about to do the same thing again great it's a short-term solution now but in 3 years when they're in high school oh they don't know what they're doing they don't know how to play their thing oh whose fault is that now I'm sure you'll blame the teachers because that's how this works um so it doesn't work at all um that's topic number one topic number two that I had was on board etiquette um we just talked about having board members speak uh to the public and all that um but if I'm right with the open with the response and open public stuff all direct comment is supposed to go through the presiding officer and then it gets distributed to other people um that that's just not happening we're just kind of calling things out and random people are speaking and I'm frankly just tired of hearing some of the voices um because going back to the Arts I have eyes and so do all of us and the supervisors were there last week it was clear as day that there were supervisors called out last week they don't make the decisions they don't they didn't decide how many people to cut they didn't decide who was going to get fired they didn't decide what that comes from the top supervisors are responsible for delegating and designing their programs as I do but I don't get to make the hiring and firing decisions for my own staff that goes through my boss and that comes from the top um and so I really don't want to hear you know they shouldn't have to come be here and be a scapegoat our supervisors in this District are good at what they do they're very good at their job they shouldn't have to come in front of the public and try to defend actions that should go through the top it's your job to answer those questions not anybody else you're supposed to be answering the questions of why is this happening to this program what's the justification behind this it's not a Personnel issue it's a program issue this this was clearly I mean again this was decided way back when that we were going to do this because of cuts blah blah blah blah blah how did we get to that point that's what I'm kind of missing here how did we get there how did we decide this is the path that we should go down these are the positions that we should eliminate again those don't go through supervisors they have to come from the top that's just kind of my thing with that um so I'm looking for an answer from the top and not from anybody else that goes I want this question to go through the presiding officer and nobody else and if we're not going to answer that question tonight then we really don't need to have it back and forth cuz we've shown tonight that we can't do that thanks py cin py cin um pass rip it up rip it up okay Rob scardina Rob Scardino wtaa Executive Vice President I'd like to yield my time to Jerry ter come on Jer permitted not appropriate he already spoke so I would say no but that's up to you guys as a board they can my time is that's fine I I'll make it within the time limit believe me no I'm letting them do it Carol as long as everybody else can do it I have no Mr Ross in addition to my admiration for you that's not what you said last time no that was two meetings ago I would like uh to address something that Dr Hibbs just made reference to and although you missed the date that's fine you made reference to the fact that if I went back and looked at all the previous budget information from 2000 this and 2000 that I would find that Mr bandorf made reference to the shortfalls potential shortfalls yes uh if that be the case and the red flag went up then why did we not plann for all that through all those years so that we didn't hit the bottom that we've now hit that's my question I can't answer that one Jerry I can't answer that one that that's before Eric okay see where are we to public a motion to close to the public so moved second second all those in favor post okay I need a motion to go back into executive session no action will be taken no action will be taken after after when he return after we come out next got a motion we got a second a second me roll call on that way please roll roll call all those in favor oppos rap I have a question are they are these big screen are they new they look B they look bigger to me I don't know if they look bigger because the numbers were on there but are the are these new does anybody know if these are new they were here Dr hi do you know are these new they were here they are new this year yes they're new yeah and let's let's but let's if you're you're you're going to call me out as the board member I'm going to point out I think that's borderline and ethical violation a b secondly just so everybody knows the the comments from even Mrs Baker is that she could not read things in presentations so they couldn't see the little 35 in screens that were up there so we did all this in house we did we did for sure and in the boardroom that we use for everything everything that we do everything that we do okay we're going into executive session now