[Music] [Music] [Music] a [Music] okay council president Rutherford the floor is yours good evening West Orange I'm gonna give folks a moment or two to come in um thank you Mr Fagan for opening the meeting I want to apolog oliz to everyone uh we've been having some technical difficulties and are still working through them uh so just give us a second as we allow folks to come in and make sure that we have um our technical difficulties worked out this is this would be the perfect time to play some music music council president or for me to wish you best wishes at the start of this new year as council president I'm sorry my video is not working either for some reason um but I do want to wish you the best at the start of this new year and and unfortunately you know state of the Town addressed rain is supposed to be good luck uh this is plenty of rain hopefully you have a lot of good luck and we will have the swearing ceremony at our next c meeting and Joe I don't need to be a panelist so if you could move me over thank you thanks mayor you're welcome I do agree rain is uh looks like everybody's in we've got 130 participants rain is supposed to be good luck we on my wedding day rain on mine too so we're still together hi I'm here yay all right we've got our clerk are you connected who was that who was just talking I think that was Karen I was trying to see if councilwoman Scarpa is connected I don't know if you guys can hear that wind outside but it is really howling all right um we're going to uh let councilwoman Scarpa come come in but I sent her the number I think we should get started uh the meeting will be called to order at 6:47 PM our first official meeting of 2024 welcome West Orange and welcome colleagues um Madam clerk this is to inform the general public that this is meeting is being held in compliance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange prle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman castelino present councilwoman debber Michael present councilwoman Scarpa um I'm G she said she's going to call in I'm going to see if I can find her here okay councilwoman uh Williams council president we can't hear you either uh councilwoman Williams I saw her I read her Li okay Council woman scarfish can you hear us she's muted councilwoman Scarpa can you hear us so am I correct and understanding I cannot be heard no we can hear you can oh okay thank you okay can you hear me now yes yes great okay council president I'm here as well there's we have will everyone rise for the Pledge of Allegiance well no we do that during the public comment uh public meeting oh so during conference session we don't really have anything on our conference agenda this evening [Music] um because we are moving the ceremonial swearing in uh as well as the presentation of the gift to the outgoing council president to our next meeting due to the inclement weather um we thought it would be nice to have people in person to see all of that uh so that was moved from uh tonight's agenda to the 23rd of January so right now all we have is the councila on announcement sure we'll start with um councilwoman castelino you're muted sorry about that folks we got to get back in our Zoom uh mode here we used to be in the public so happy New Year to everyone and uh happy and blessed 2024 congratulations to councilman Rutherford um being sworn in earlier today best of luck this year and thank you to uh former council president Tammy Williams for doing an outstanding job last year I know it wasn't easy these meetings aren't easy as Council uh my Council will see this year but um you know we do the best we can and perfect example tonight uh just got a pivot so here we are on this uh very exciting news for Downtown West Orange so while everybody else was celebrating the holidays uh our executive director and our downtown uh Amy mccampbell her assistant uh and our business owners were extremely busy um we were are you guys hearing me repeat myself we are hearing an echo I think it there we go I was asking councilwoman to mute I think it should be good now is it okay now yes Mr F okay sorry about that folks so um yeah so very exciting news if you've been following us on channel 12 news uh during the holiday uh week uh Channel 12 News was downtown highlighting six of our businesses Supreme Bakery they went to Marana Dina a Vita Hair and Nail Salon CMP fine treasures and Uptown Printing and uh their last stop was Nicholas Anthony's Family kitchen I want to thank all our business owners for participating being interviewed uh first interview was at 5:15 a.m. uh they played the tape all day but um production started at 5:15 a.m. and it was pretty cool seeing all this happen behind the scenes but great stories for each owner uh you know Supreme Bakery they've been there over 55 years Americana Diner they're the only 24-hour diner that's open 24 hours in in this area because most diners close at at midnight uh V hair and nail salon celebrating they're going into their fifth year um they've just been outstanding a beautiful shop which we highlighted CMP find treasures um great story there Cheryl uh works really hard with her um she has autistic son and she has a a very um uh community service oriented shop where um she brings in um a 21 and older community um specially Community to come uh work for um the store and um it just gives back so much and just just a great story there which was highlighted uh up town printing one of our newer shops and Manufacturing um print and Border shop here on Harrison Avenue and nickas anthy family kitchen you know they finished top 100 in uh Yelp this year so great stories for all our business owners and just highlighting the best of Downtown West Orange and many more uh with that uh this year Schneider Harvard celebrated 100 years so they were also highlighted uh as well on Fox News and channel 5 and the county executive came in and presented them with a proclamation so that was really great um and also uh OKO fine cuisine also got um uh named top 25 uh in in um this year best of Essex so congratulations to them uh they're also located on Main Street and they have unique Fusion Gan Mexican food of um many many uh different kind of flavors and uh special sauces so they're doing quite well for starting off so very excited very proud of our business owners looking for much more recognition and exciting 2024 a public relations commission will be having a meeting this Thursday night we're planning restaurant week which we're looking to uh push back to April this year uh for a couple reasons um we think it'll work better the week that we're picking and so we're excited to get that website uh uh reloaded reboot it up and uh it worked out well so uh just trying to support our business owners uh not just on Main Street but all across the township thank you council president and good luck this year oh I'm done sorry you're on mute all right thank you councilwoman calino uh councilwoman gber Michael good evening everyone um first off I would like to wish um Orthodox Christians within our community um a belated Christmas our Christmas is January 7 um celebrated this Sunday um and also Happy New Year to everyone so Council the on uh announcements The Pedestrian safety Advisory Board hasn't met yet this year we meet next weday next Wednesday at 7:30 pm via Zoom uh open space board uh we met last Thursday in town hall at 7M unfortunately we didn't have Quorum but we still sat and talked for about an hour and worked on an open space tour for the month of June we planned out the stop so stay tuned and the next next meeting will be held in person Thursday February 1st at 700 p.m in town hall and the John Rena board our first meeting this year will be held next Tuesday at 11:30 a.m. and that concludes my leison announcements thank you councilwoman uh councilwoman Scara can you hear can you hear me we we can okay great I I first want to start out by thanking Council has Echo she has two zooms open she has the other one open that isn't muted let's see if I try closing out that one maybe I could un close just close it all the way out close your laptop all the way out okay can you hear me now you'll need to log off from your laptop I'll just close out of [Music] this okay can you hear me now yes thank than you councilwoman okay okay great I just want to congratulate councilman roord uh I think he's going to be do a great job as president of our Council and I'm looking forward to really working with him in terms of my Council um liaison appointments the both the environmental and the economic development meet at the end of the month so we don't have too much news on them yet but our senior citizen uh committee the older adults Advisory Board is is on the move as usual we are starting our winter Cafe in January now I encourage all of the seniors to look for it it's going to be a nice opportunity for them to just meet and relax and have some lunch and have some interesting programming and again I want to shout out and thank Laura van djk for the tremendous work she and Noelia have done to try to put this together for us also I am excited that we have our two Council consensus appointments which we will be voting on later on um impending matters we have Rachel Hershey and Alia tweeton who um both are are seniors who have been working with us in many capacities for a while now and I hope that both of them will be confirmed and that's about it thank you councilwoman uh councilwoman Williams so much West Orange Happy New Year we are looking forward and exciting uh to a 2024 that we expect more and expect better as far as my Council liaison announcements are concerned um the historic preservation commission meeting for January has been cancelled but you will see later on as we approach our uh agenda that there is a resolution on for a Grant opportunity as well as the municipal Alliance you will also see a grant opportunity on the agenda um we are just excited and looking forward to a strong and uneventful 2024 we're looking forward to making sure the municipality meets all of your expectations and I just want to thank you for the continued opportunity to serve thank you council president thank thank you councilwoman um quick update from me on Council leaz on appointments first happy New Year everybody I I am excited to start the new year off um and work with each of you so I'm looking forward to a successful year uh I want to thank all of you for the well wishes everyone that was in person today and um the accommodations that were made given the uh the storm that we're dealing with uh to swear me in so uh thank you madam clerk um thank you Mr Fagan and all those that were present today uh briefly um I've been we've been still working with the uh potential development um on Main Street the uh proposed movie studio with the developers Matrix uh they have engaged Engineers uh civil engineers geotechnical Engineers environmental Engineers they're doing all of the analysis uh around the space um they have engaged with multiple Studio partners and are evaluating those opportunities um uh and they are working on the uh tax credits as well uh and they have actually even started their site characterization and their layout so the project is moving forward quickly uh we're excited about the pace there have been multiple visits to the space I participated uh in one of them I want to thank uh Chief Abbott uh the guys from DPW for uh being so accommodating and helping to make sure they have access when they need it um and so we're looking forward to continue working with them and having a successful project uh they will be giving us monthly updates um but as always if there are any questions in between don't hesitate to ask um the planning board met uh last week I believe um and we considered um just one uh application um the other the it was for a residential property uh in the Valley area the uh proposed uh project at the golf course has been uh postponed we're going to deal with that at the next meeting a joint meeting will meet uh next week um and so I don't have any further updates on my Council liaison appointments uh and I'm glad because it's still just now 7:02 in spite of how late we started uh we are still almost on time for our regular meeting um so if um if that concludes our Council a on announcements and we don't have any further uh business I think we should start our public meeting uh council president councilwoman castelino has her hand up sure I can't see I'm sorry I'm sorry just real quick I just feel bad because I did not uh mention I skipped over light bulb uh uh Cafe and uh I just wanted to mention he was one of the businesses that was uh profiled and great story there he started in the middle of covid or the beginning of Co and has worked really hard and is is doing great uh in in regards to uh his business on Main Street so just thank you council president for letting me mention that absolutely councilwoman um and you know you joged my memory too I wanted to welcome our newest sport of Ed member uh Maria Vera was sworn in last week as well uh and she is the new vice president of the board um so excited that uh she is working there and we're as all always looking forward to helping with the schools wherever we can and I know that you are the liaison C councilwoman castelino uh so please let us know whatever it is that we can do to be helpful absolutely I think that concludes it may one other one other announcement councilman council president so I just wanted to take this opportunity also before we close out our announcements to acknowledge the West Orange African Heritage organization and their a wonderful K Quanza celebration that they held at Washington um school that is um was standing room only and uh we appreciate their contribution to the West Orange Community um they do that independently and funded exclusively by their organization but it is a community uh wide event so I do thank them for their service to the community and acknowledge that it was a superbly done event very nice absolutely thank you councilwoman I think that it uh but councila on announcements um and yeah that was certainly a wonderful event um Madam clerk you're on mute Madam clerk for those of you joining us from the public we have been having technical difficulties we do need you to bear with us tonight yeah can you hear me now yes we can okay thank you so I just wanted to remind everyone that at the uh December 19th uh meeting we recessed the meeting so in order to follow the proper protocol tonight I have to reopen that meeting we're going going to immediately recess it until January 23rd of 2024 and then we'll go into tonight's meeting January 9th 2024 so it's going to be a lot of roll calls but just bear with me um this so I'm going to open it now this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 23rd 2022 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on December 1st 2022 councilwoman castelino present councilwoman gber Michael present councilwoman Scarpa present councilwoman Williams council president Rutherford here is there a motion to recess this meeting until January 23rd 2024 Mo second all in favor I I any opposed the motion is carried the meeting is adjourned um now I'm going to open up tonight's meeting uh this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman castalina present councilwoman gber Michel present councilwoman Scarpa present councilwoman Williams pres council president Russ first here will everyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of Allegiance to the flag flag of the United States of America and the Republic which stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty justice for all the council is now in their public meeting thank you madam clerk uh we will begin with our public comment um this public comment is for agenda items only just before we uh open up for public comment though I want to make an announcement I just received uh regarding schools tomorrow so for those of you that are um that have school AG children um this message is from the superintendent of the West Orange Public Schools due to the predicted storm impacting our Township and in an effort to prepare our buildings to safely receive students and faculty the West Orange Public Schools will follow the delayed opening schedule tomorrow Wednesday January 10th 2024 this will allow the district to recover from potential power outages storm damage flooding Andor leaks as a result of the weather uh there will be a 90 minute delayed opening schedule so West Orange High School will begin at 9:00 Edison Liberty and Roosevelt will begin at 9:40 and all prek and elementary schools will begin at 10:15 thank you for your understanding and for your Indulgence with this announcement um public comment for um agenda items only um will begin now Mr Fagan can you see my screen council president yes sir okay I'll be brief uh uh welcome everyone to the township council meeting for January 9th I am sorry we had some technical difficulties running in and I just want to thank uh Megan bril for helping solve send them on the back end um happy New Year everyone uh as we begin the new year uh 2024 um let us invent our new future um as council president uh mentioned earlier uh he was sworn in in a brief ceremony at uh council chambers um by judge Hackett uh his daughter there and his proud parents uh standing behind him it was a proud moment uh for council president and I understand we will have a formal a more formal ceremony when we return to council chambers um today uh was is national law enforcement appreciation day so certainly we want to um uh thank all our uh police officers who been serving the West Arch Community since June 28th 1884 um there is ongoing operations for tree trimming by psng in West Orange uh we don't have a precise schedule they're working on their schedule uh but just be aware and stay alert of uh of possible uh tree trimmings from PS and Crews um Thursday January 11 6:00 to 9:00 p.m. council chambers uh mayor McCartney's open Office hours there is no appointment necessary you can simply just show up um on Monday January 15th at Liberty Middle School there is a uh the an 12th annual celebration of Martin Luther King uh William Barbie will be the uh guest speaker it starts at 10 o'clock uh doors open 9:15 this information is on our website by the way um also the um West Orange Arts Council is reaching out for uh artists calling all artist for africanamerican uh Elegance uh you can contact details at W arts.org uh apparently they're looking for uh to have a display during black his history month in February um there is a free rabies vaccination clinic Wednesday January 10th 300 P pm. to 4m fire station number four that's on Pleasant Valley way there was another one that happened this past Saturday um you know it is winter time we had snow now we had rain just a reminder for those residents who can to clear a fire hydrant in front of their house 3 feet uh with a clear path to the street it will help uh save property and lives and uh thanks in advance from the West Orange fire department uh just a reminder that there is no soliciting in West Orange a permit is required so uh anyone uh seeking information about a permit please contact the municipal Clerk's Office at the number shown and this information as I mentioned is on our website um also senior transportation to the West Orange Library you can call 325 4134 this information is on our website it's best to call a day before to reserve a seat um as uh the holidays are now behind us so we're also discharging Christmas trees uh you can call the DPW at the number shown to advise them it is at the curb uh more information about this is also on our website this continues to January 31st the end of the month um uh also this is an important number here uh to report and receive power outages uh just text the word out to 47734 in the event you lose power or need to find out status of a power outage uh also report street light outages to psng we've been getting many um um notices from residents on the report a concern on our website uh and we have to advise them that they need to contact pscg this is the phone number to do it and please provide the poll number when doing so that helps them greatly um 92 years of service congratulations West storn Elks post 1590 they uh have 92 years of serving the West Orange Community they began in 1932 um happy birthday to Maddie Wilkerson who uh celebrated a birthday this week uh mayor was on hand to deliver a proclamation a 100 years old um also uh council president if I may indulge in a personal Point um I have been appointed by Governor Murphy to the New Jersey State Historical commission been nominated by Governor Murphy and my um nomination has been approved by the Senate uh so I will be serving on the New Jersey historical Commission uh for this upcoming uh session uh and I believe that's it anybody who um wants to contact the Town Council you can do so in a email to all council members Council weststar.org uh I believe that includ concludes my public comment uh council president and um Anthony Pugi is on the call and he has a few announcements to make I'm going to bring him in now Anthony can you hear us yes I can please continue thank you very much uh first of all congratulations to councilwoman Williams on her year of service as president and best of luck to new council president Rutherford uh good luck on the coming year um just two short announcements one uh last year uh West uh turtleback Zoo uh set a new attendance record at 9795 and that tops the last record that was set in 2017 uh and then uh beginning next week uh from January 16th to uh February 27th on Tuesdays only uh we will be conducting our deer management program in South Mountain reservation the reservation will close at 12 noon uh the arena Zoo mcloons the parking ride and then the roadway Cherry Lane will remain open to the public but all parking lots and trails inside the reservation will be uh closed to the public uh the last two dates of that that list on February 20th and 27th are makeup days only so if we do not cancel any days uh before that we won't have the program on those two days and if you notice there are fewer fewer days that the program is being held this year uh because we are in more of a maintenance mode than in previous years um all this information is on our website which is Essex County nj.org uh and if you have any questions just please let me know thank you very much okay council president um we have uh 231 people attending the zoom meeting and we have 16 people with their hand raised uh before I bring them in on public comment would you like to make uh an announcement concerning what public comment is uh regarding this evening me council president before you uh do that uh just a quick service announcement from the West Orange office Emergency Management and the West Orange Health Department tomorrow's garbage and um recycling collection has been postponed we placed this on the website there should be a robo call going out um our collector roselli company is going to ask that if we put out our refug and cycling out tomorrow evening and they will make every attempt collected by no later than Saturday so uh we apologize for the inconvenience but for the safety of the the residents and the and the garbage being strewn about the town with high winds we we' uh we asked that all residents do not put out their recycling or their garbage tonight thank you I'm sorry for the interruption thank you I'm sorry Mr smor Aldo and I received that Robo call it did instruct residents to put uh that have Wednesday collection to put their garbage out Wednesday night and it will be picked up in the coming days um Mr Fagan uh with regard to public comment we are uh going to do agenda items only um we're going to go back to the old format starting with the next meeting um but tonight we are because the agenda has already been published we're going to stay with agenda items only we'll have non-agenda items we'll have public comment for non-agenda items at the end of the move at the end of the uh meeting uh but right now we're opening public comment for agenda items only and I want the administration to um be alert because we are going to have a different answering process tonight uh so um when public comment has concluded we will direct all of the uh comments that that require the administration to respond we will allow them to respond first so that there's not the back and forth between the council members uh and then after they're done responding whatever they don't address that uh individual council members would like to address uh can then be addressed by us hopefully that'll help us uh shave off just a few minutes from the meeting um so Mr Fagan please uh call the um attendees in the uh order in which you choose uh yes thank you council president before I begin I just want to um mention that uh the announcement uh Mr SP Aldo made is uh posted on our social media uh Facebook and Instagram and is also um posted on our website so if anyone needs to double check that information it is available at those venues um we have 23 people with their hand raised um Paul can you hear us please State your full name and address for the record person who came into the meeting is Paul please state name and address for the record before we um start the clock on him excuse me one second uh sir uh Mr Fagan are you able to keep the time or should we have the clerk keep the time uh I would prefer the clerk keep the time uh it would be uh much more convenient uh in terms of bringing people in and out thank you so uh Madam clerk if you don't mind um and Mr Paul thank you U Mr Paul please state your name and address for the record um and then give us your public comment uh it's Paul trenburg 96 Sullivan Drive in West Orange uh I want to start by quoting one of my favorite new jerseyans Yogi Bara who said it's like deja vu all over again uh for a few of you not many of you uh I was a familiar Presence at Council meetings in the earlier 2000s um over mainly the development of 120 and a half acre parcel uh currently back before uh not yet formally in the planning board but the developments on the table um but I want to talk more broadly and I have uh four uh agenda items that I want to talk about collectively if I may uh it's items 1224 about uh Mr gigle um item 1324 uh 2424 and 2524 they all relate to contracts for employing people to carry out important Municipal functions um when I was last regularly before the council uh there were West Orange employees uh discharging many of these functions Len laor is Township engineer Sue Borg is the township planner um now we have apparently are Contracting out those services and I want to really raise a question about that um I tried to do a little bit of due diligence about the people who with whom there are contracts uh on your agenda uh I couldn't find a lot about some but I found some things about several which I found a bit alarming to say the least and I I want want to raise the broad question of how can the residents of West Orange be assured that their interests are being adequately protected by those people who are not employed by the township but contracted for by the township um for example I I thought I heard the council president Mr Rutherford make reference to Matrix as a developer uh I don't know whether it's the same Matrix that is an environmental consultant uh on one of your agenda items but it strikes me as having somebody and I did check Matrix new world and found that they appear to represent developers and development projects uh I'm a bit concerned about that of of more importance though is uh uh the issue of the planning division which plays a key role in so many areas of protecting uh our community reserving it and advancing it um the Contracting party Mr Regal I apologize apologize if I State his name in uh incorrectly um but I found out he works for a a firm uh that lists uh as recent clients 20 developers including I was shocked to learn garden homes which I believe is the developer involved in the 120 acre development project uh I I think we need to find a way to assure that not only those that are employed by the township but those who enter into contractual relationships with the contract have been carefully vetted for conflict of interest uh and other issues that uh their outside employment raises incidentally I even discovered that the assistant uh Township engineer uh is listed as somebody employed by minute remaining an engineering firm uh and the engineering firm indicates that one of its major assignments is dealing with major and minor subdivision developments so I I am concerned that the interest of West Orange citizens s and the entire Community are well served not only by people we employ uh directly but by people with whom we enter into important contracts because these are all Central functions the engineering function the planning function the environmental function thank you for your time I appreciate it nor welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the record hi can you guys hear me yes please continue perfect my name is nor shamim I live on Cullen drive in West Orange I'm speaking in regards to agenda item um resolution 39-24 I'm heartbroken by the lack of empathy the administration of West Orange has for the Palestinian Arab and Muslim communities after weeks of indifference to the requests of public recognition and support of these communities as They Mourn the murder of over 22,000 civilians I will start my public comment today by holding a brief moment of silence for those of us in morning since mayor Susan McCartney and her Administration have failed to do so thank you I have attended multiple meetings in the last few months HRC town councils I've even had small group meetings with the mayor and members of this very Town Council I've sent emails I've signed petitions I have repeated the same thing over and over again I'm not here to debate the internationally recognized language of Oppression or 75 years of history or biblical text or religion or Dogma I'm here telling you that as a resident of West Orange I do not feel safe I do not feel safe because in the midst of a war that has killed over 23,000 people more than half of them being children in a matter of weeks the current Administration has made an active choice to recognize collaborate with and Champion only only those residents in town who support this war this death and this destruction this Administration has chosen to support and amplify the voices of the people who have dehumanized those of us who are mourning this devastating loss of life did you know that even coming or speaking at these uh at these Town Council meetings for public comment is a safety risk for many of us were you aware that after these meetings there are people in town who will find us on Facebook and harass us that they call us violent terrorists sympathizers and what does this Administration do nothing silence this Administration never even uttered the word Palestine until December 29th when mayor Susan McCartney cancel a Palestinian flag raising event by feeding into the racist narrative that such an event would put the safety of residents at risk what about the safety of the Palestinians you claimed to have known for decades in this town mayor McCartney the ones you worked with directly to plan this flag raising what does a statement like that do for their safety besides adding to the fear mongering and dehumanization of people who are being silenced for mourning and opposing the murder of whole generations of families in the days following that statement Susan McCartney spread a slew of misinformation from the rumor that the flyer her Administration received approved and posted was inciting hate to the fear that outside Palestinians or Arab organizations that were attending the event would be violent besides the fact that these statements are unequivocally false they're also rooted in anti-arab racism and are deeply problematic now I don't expect mayor McCartney or the Town Council here today to solve the crisis overseas I don't expect you to end the war what I do expect you to do is to work with the communities of West Orange that have been vilified dehumanized and systematically silenced rather than voting yes on a resolution being proposed today that silen is a criticism of a foreign country that has displaced over 2 million people and killed over 23,000 why not work in collaboration with the diverse residents of West Orange to establish a resolution that would keep all communities impacted by this war safe there is a dangerous ride rise in islamophobia anti-Semitism and anti-air racism and it should all be treated with equal concern in care however the town is currently prioritizing the safety of only one while silencing others and this war like I said is impacting multiple communities so to only support one is impulsive shortsighted irresponsible if not outright dangerous we need a resolution that clearly states that humanity and safety of all residents of West Orange is a top priority one minute remaining especially during a time when tensions are heightened the actions of a foreign government should never be a reason for any West Orange resident to feel unsafe while I am deeply disappointed in the actions of this Administration I am moved by the beauty and passion of the residents of West Orange including council president Rutherford and councilwoman gber Michael who came out on Friday to raise Palestinian Flags it was pure Palestinian joy we raised Flags we ate treats we sang songs we danced DEA and yes we resisted we resisted our sadness we resisted our mourning and the constant dehumanization by celebrating Palestinian humanity and Palestinian Joy it was beautiful and peaceful just as organizers had promised it would be I hope council members and this Administration and mayor McCartney took a note from the res residents of this town on what diversity and inclusion really looks like it is not simply tolerating that we exist but instead celebrating that we are here ensuring that we belong and prioritizing our safety is that thank you to the person who entered the meeting as row please I'm sorry the person who entered the meeting is mq please State your full name and address for the record my name is meish kesi and I'm a resident of West Orange good evening West Orange Administration council members council president and all virtual attendees tonight thank you for your time and efforts for holding this meeting despite this wet weather uh I'm deeply concerned about the lack of empathy shown by the administration towards the Palestinian Arab and Muslim communities in our town today I address the anti-Semitism resolution with a very heavy heart in West Orange we are witnessing a troubling Trend where residents openly accuse their neighbors of being anti anti-semitic both online and in person even students advocating for a ceasefire are met with hurtful labels it is disheartening to see Palestinian families losing their loved ones due to actions by the Israeli government actions that this resolution seems to single out and unintentionally make it harder to critique I've personally become become a victim of these attacks to the extent that after more than 20 years of maintaining a social media presence on Facebook I was forced to delete photos of me my family my children due to fears of potential harm I admit this has instilled a sense of fear in me but I am determined to voice my concerns over and over again today I'm going to Echo other sentiments urging the town to prioritize inclusivity and safety in our recent HRC Town Council meetings discussions amongst peers amongst everyone around around us we have consistently voiced our concerns via email um meetings I'm here today to express that as a West Orange resident I feel unsafe I feel unsafe in this town that I call my home for eight plus years public comment sections like newer says have evolved into hazardous spaces we endure unwarranted harassment malicious accusations of being advocates for violent extremists this administration's persistent silence in response is not only disheartening but deeply unsettling and abhorent quite frankly it's disgusting it's concerning that may Susan McCartney only mentioned Palestine on December 29th when canceling a palestin Palestinian fundraising event this decision steeped in a narrative that jeopardizes the safety of residents exasperates the the fear and dehumanization experienced by those mourning and opposing atrocities abroad we urgently need a resolution that puts the safety of all affected communities first the dangerous rise in islamophobia anti-Semitism and anti-arab racism demands equal concern and care prioritizing the safety of one Community while silencing others is shortsighted irresponsible and it's very dangerous despite my ongoing disappointment with this Administration my heart is happy with gratitude for council president Rutherford councilwoman gbra Michael uh West Orange uh Humanity their act of solidarity raising Palestinian Flags alongside us was a profoundly moving experience it's my sincere hope that the admin ministration grasp the profound significance of genuine diversity embracing our existence fostering our sense of belonging and insurance ensuring our safety thank you the person who entered the meeting is row please State your full name and address for the record uh hello can you hear me yes please continue uh my name is row uh just for safety purposes I would not like to share my last name if possible um I am a resident of West Orange um so I will also be discussing uh resolution 39-24 um which is being called an anti-Semitism resolution but in actuality this is an anti-freedom of speech resolution um I have looked over this resolution and let me be very clear anti-Semitism is a real thing anti-arab racism anti-muslim hate these are all real things what is outlined in this resolution barely and inaccurately touches upon these things I'm a Palestinian Muslim woman I know what bigotry looks like and feels like and as a lifelong resident of West Orange I never believ that that bigotry and that racism would be in my backyard in fact I can't believe that that racism and bigotry has followed me on social media it has tried to follow me home it has followed my nephew and my sister to their car for the simple fact that my nephew under the age of 10 was carrying a palace Ian flag on him what this resolution does is it does not protect people against anti-Semitism it protects people that want to use anti-arab sentiments and anti-muslim sentiments and be blatantly and openly racist against Arabs that is what this resolution is this resolution puts me at risk it puts Palestinians at risk Arabs at risk Muslims at risk God forbid it puts anybody who looks like me at risk whether they be Muslim or Arab because sadly ignorance sometimes can't tell the difference this resolution is bad news it is bad news if people think that there's divide and divisiveness in this town now I'm telling you this resolution will bring more I don't know how many times we have to say we feel unsafe for someone to care I will say it one more time for the record I a Palestinian Muslim woman feel unsafe in this town at this time and this resolution is going to put me in more danger I urge you to look at what some members of this community Post online they are waiting for something tangible they are waiting for something tangible so that when they end up hurting me or someone who looks like me or someone who believes in the things that I believe that they'll say oh but look my town My Town backs me up my town says oh look this is what anti-Semitism is speaking out against Israel is not anti-Semitism that is my right the way that I as an American citizen can talk about the United States of America I could talk about any other government I want to speak about that is my right so this is not an anti-Semitism resolution this is an anti-freedom of speech resolution and any minute remaining I urge you to question them Mr pan uh apparently she muted herself Ro uh you have 30 seconds would you like to continue I think I've said my peace because I don't know how much more I could say before the people in this Administration want to humanize me and stop demonizing me and my people thank you I brium uh please State your full name and address for the record and I apologize if I mispronounce your name good evening can you hear me yes please continue good evening congratulations Town Council president good evening Town Council Members it it was nice to see the Town Council president and Town Council woman um Asar G Michael at The Unofficial pasan flag raising on January 5th pardon the interruption can you please state your name and address for the record my name is ibraim I live in West Orange I hope you enjoyed yourselves and tried some of the Palestinian Suites like KFI which was made authentically like it was made in nablas Palestine maybe the mayor will get to taste the soon when we have an official raising of the Palestinian flag I see that the petition is now over 1,400 signatures we're still waiting for the mayor's statement empathizing with Palestinian residents with what's happening in Gaza I want to speak about the anti-zionism equates the anti-Semitism resolution that you've brought that have been brought before you tonight I know the anti-Semitism I know that anti-Semitism islamophobia and anti-arab race ism is on the rise today and we should fight together to combat this but the resolution you have today does not do that this resolution will actually create division hostility and bigotry and will Empower one group over another especially here in West Orange it will empower the zionists Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism Judaism is one of the abrahamic faiths as Christianity and Islam is as a Muslim I must acknowledge and respect these religions as as part of my faith Zionism on the other hand is a nationalistic movement that originated in Eastern Europe and founded by an atheist and has nothing to do with Judaism not all Jews are zionists not all zionists are Jews and not all Jews support Israel Zion Zionism is a racist fascist Colonial settler project Zionism was a cause of my grandparents fleeing for their lives with their young family from akah and haa in Palestine during the 1948 neba or catastrophe Zionism was the cause of them becoming refugees from their home my grandparents were living a middle- class life in Palestine until Zion until Zionism came to their doorstep and destroyed everything they had their home was their home and land was stolen from them and were forced to leave because of the terror and killings they experience much like the genocide that's happening now in Gaza they lived out the rest of their lives in foreign countries never being able to become citizens and always labeled as Palestinian refugees their children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren worked very hard to come to the United States and become successful citizens but after much suffering so you see there is a reason I am an anti-zionist and as a United States citizen you'll be curtailing my rights to free speech if this resolution passes you will give power to the Zionist in this town to label me and anyone against Zionism as an anti-semite I am a Semite because I am Palestinian and I speak Arabic I have lived in this town for 30 years and have never been concerned for the safety of my family until now my wife wears a hijab and so do my so do my daughters they're visibly Muslim and passing this resolution will make them even more of a Target I feel that this resolution that you have before you will send the wrong message to West Orange residents and create fear and division if you want to combat anti-Semitism and islamophobia and anti-arab racism you need you need a different resolution without including Zionism and Israel Israel is an apartheid state that is responsible for the killing of over 23,000 human beings and half of these human beings are children when you equate anti-zionism to anti-Semitism you deny you deny my grandparents my parents and me the right to criticize Israel for what they have done to us please replace this resolution with a better one for all of West Orange residents thank you John Blandon welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the [Music] record have to call you back good evening John Blandon see the at the same time am I echoing yes sir you are what do I have to do um is there an open microphone on your laptop he sounds Mr Pagan he sounds fine to me I don't hear the echo okay continue sir I'm sorry okay I hope it doesn't U I can go back to my five minutes uh John Blandon fars Hill Road here in the township first and foremost I want to wish everyone a Happy New Year um secondly I want to thank uh councilwoman Williams uh for your service not only as a council person uh but serving um in some very difficult times as our chairperson over the last year and I want to congratulate councilman Rutherford uh for your colleagues thinking enough of you uh to vote you as a chairperson um and I wish you well um with the continuance of the work that you guys are doing um working with the administration and and the residents of our Township as well as your colleagues I want to address uh three different agenda items uh the first one is uh 2834-2 24 28 34-24 uh it's regarding the Allway stop signs at uh Mitchell and Valley and it appears that in the resolution is saying that these stop signs are going to be put up unless I'm a little confused they're already there um so I just wanted to ask what this um is the logistics of this because those stop signs are already there um my second question on the agenda is 9-2 for um Mr Richard tr's agreement um I just uh found out recently that you guys are in litigation I don't know if it has something to do with this agreement but I would also like to get some clarity because it it seemed like there was some back and forth with you guys in regard to Mr tren's agreement uh my third um concern is agenda item number 39 that -24 uh without having to go into full detail uh I have contacted each one of you if you know individually uh to tell you that I'm offended uh by this resolution the only person I didn't speak to uh was councilwoman calina uh I want to reiterate that to you guys um if you hear it in my voice I'm also representing uh my family members and I have spoken uh and shared this re resolution with religious leaders public officials Educators law enforcement officers and others not only here but throughout the country and I took West Orange out of it and I asked them I scanned it and I asked them to read it and get back to me throughout the day or with feedback and everyone that got back to me had the same exact comments and the recommendation I want to make to all of you um and I said this before with the possibility probably of councilman Rutherford maybe um I know councilman woman Asar red and councilwoman Williams would be too young uh I'm a civil rights baby and when people are isolated like this and you give the appearance that someone else is more important than someone else's atrocities it's appalling to me okay I know none of you that are on their produ have never had to face walking down the street and move going to a empty theater and sit in the balcony go to a water fountain and you can't drink out of it and when you do these type of things in a Township like that it repeats it for me it hurts for me and so I want to say that personally for me if we're going to put out a hate statement we need to put it out for everybody and make everyone inclusive because no one's atrocities are more than anyone else and I'm not downplaying anybody else's feelings or what has happened to them because what has happened to me has happened to me what happened to my family my family and I get talk about it on and on and on and on and on so my suggestion to this council is do not vote on this resolution tonight reconvene do something else and then be inclusive of everyone that lives here in this Township and represent every cultural group thank you so much for your time POA welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the record hi um my name is Tova and I'm a Jewish West Orange resident who is born in occupied Palestine our Jewish identity is not monolithic this resolution essentially equates anti-zionism with anti-Semitism it would mean that we as Jews would be labeled as anti-semitic in our own Hometown because of our opposition to Zionism the state of Israel's horrific killing of over 23,000 people in Gaza and its continued occupation of Palestine it's insulting to the memories of my grandparents who were killed by the Nazis to conflate so conflate this definition labeling criticism of the state of Israel's actions is anti-Semitic distracts from the very real danger of violent anti-Semitism by right-wing white supremacists it would have a chilling effect on the speech of my neighbors including Palestinians Arabs and Muslims as well as anti-zionist Jews whose criticisms of the devastating bombings carried out by Israel and paid for by our us tax dollars would officially be labeled as anti-semitic possibly preventing from us from being able to speak in our own Town Council meetings HRC meetings and town public events on this topic it would be highly inappropriate and unbalanced to pass a resolution focused solely on anti-Semitism when Palestinians Muslims and Arabs in West Orange have documented in a great rise in islamophobia in the past months while their concerns and fears have largely gone unheeded since October 7th the legal offices of care Palestine legal the Arab American anti-discrimination committee the ACLU and the national lawyers Guild have been flooded by complaints of vicious doxing campaigns against Palestinian Arab and Muslim youth students who are speaking out for Gaza additionally three students who were shot in Vermont uh for wearing cfas and an Imam was just killed in Newark and a child was killed in Chicago for just being Palestinian statistics quoted in the resolution rely heavily on the ADL which uses the IH definition of anti-semitism in their compilation of anti-Semitic incidents including the speech of Palestinian students on campuses across the country who are responding to the genocidal assault on Gaza by Israel our West Orange High School students walk out for Palestine would have been included as an anti-semitic act in these statistics I urge that the council reject this resolution outright as it makes many of us feel unsafe or at least table it for further discussion of a balanced resolution which truly addresses all those in our town who are have been hurt and affected by islamophobia anti-arab racism and real anti-Semitism I thank you CL sylvestri welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the um your name and address for the record thank you uh good evening Claire sylvestri 20 Grand View Avenue you certainly have a jam-packed agenda tonight and I wanted to focus on some other proposed legislation on the agenda um included in the agenda tonight are quite a number of Professional Services contracts that I hope council members have given a great deal of scrutiny to and consider rejecting some of them either because fee structures are very high or work the vendor has done in the past for the township did not always turn out to be in the best interest of our residents but two resolutions I want to single out tonight are resolutions 9-24 and 12-24 resolution 9-24 is to reappoint Richard Tran as Township attorney Mr Tran has held this position for more than two decades he has frequently abdicated on behalf of the mayor's office on transactions that were not in the community's best interest often saddling taxpayers with hundreds of thousands of dollars in higher costs with much less if any benefit the payment in lie of property taxes Pilots that he has advocated for continue to cost us millions in property taxes taxes over future decades specifically in the downtown and Executive Drive Redevelopment projects among Mr Tran's other low lights was the time he advised the council to ignore a contract that required a consultant to appear before the council to answer questions on the dubious Essex Green area in need of Redevelopment report he was also cited for questionable professional actions in the 2007 Justice Stein report related to the commercial property at 347 Mount Pleasant Avenue adjacent to his firm's previous offices this long history of advocating against the financial and Community interests of residents particularly taxpayers LED Council members to recently try to end his role I strongly urge the council to vote down this resolution and identify a replacement who will finally Advocate not only for the mayor but also for the council and particularly residents I also urge the council to vote no on resolution 12-24 which seeks to reappoint the firm of part-time Town planner Paul gel many years ago the town benefited from an outstanding full-time planner who brought both plan planning and Architectural expertise to guide the development of our town in a thoughtful integrated farsighted way given the halfhazard and costly path since that time the council should vote down this resolution and hire a full-time planner with economic development experience who can bring a full-time and professional approach not only to Planning and Zoning Board activities but also to guide and advise the future development of the township I also had some questions about resolution 34-24 in reviewing the legislation it indicates a need for engineering work to both replace main street Corridor crosswalks and sidewalks as well as to make parking lot and lighting improvements at 10 Rooney Circle I.E the library for an amount not to exceed $775,000 the resolution indicates that four bids were received but nowhere does it say that CME Associates the recommended vendor was the lowest bidder were they the lowest of the four bids received if not why wasn't the lowest bidder chosen also my understanding is that engineering costs for a construction project are typically 5 to 15% of the total cost of the project there are few details about either of these two construction projects but the $75,000 price tag for engineering seems to indicate that the total cost of whatever these improvements are could reach as high as a half million dollar could the administration please provideing thank you could the administration please provide more details as well as an estimated cost for the two construction projects individually and finally I want to once again express my support of ordinance 28 33-20 23 to ban gas leaf blowers and I hope council members will finally vote to approve it on second and final reading thank thank you natita creamer please state your name and address for the record hi my name is natana um I live at 595 Northfield Avenue here in West Orange I'm speaking tonight as a Jewish woman who is deeply committed to peace equity and Justice and I must express my deep concern regarding resolution 39-24 on tonight's agenda so that you have a sense of my position ity and the lens with which I'm speaking to you tonight I want to share an experience that's been on my mind and heart about 10 years ago I read Penny brosen wasser's book which is called hope into practice Jewish women choosing Justice despite our fears and I was part of a group of Jewish Women in Brooklyn who came together to dig deep into the impact that being Jewish has had on our social justice work we discussed how anti-Semitism has shown up in our lives and how that connects to the spaces where we occupy positions of power and privilege as well I've been reflecting deeply on these learnings and discussions and in the face of what is happening in our town right now I am absolutely clear that my Jewish identity and my Jewish values are what calls me to speak out against this resolution tonight we must strengthen Community as we build solidarity in our social change efforts but this resolution will have the opposite effect this resolution is ostensibly about combating anti-Semitism but as a Jewish woman whose ancestors and family members have withstood overwhelming anti medic acts for Generations I am deeply concerned that far from combating anti-Semitism this resolution will serve only to further distract and divide our town because it relies on a definition of anti-semitism that equates and conflates anti-zionism with anti-Semitism for the past three months in the midst of witnessing profound and heartbreaking Devastation and destruction in Gaza I have simultaneously been bearing witness to harassment hate microaggressions macroaggressions and dehumanization of my neighbors in West orange that includes Palestinian Arab Muslim anti-zionist Jewish neighbors and many allies who have been courageous enough to speak their truth and to call on Town elected officials to see hear respect support and protect every member of our community this resolution will further silence not only Palestinian Arab Muslim and anti-zionist Jewish voices but anyone who wants to speak out and it fails to acknowledge the rise in anti-arab racism in West Orange in addition a town resolution that signed bances the criticism of any country by using misleading definitions of anti-Semitism is dangerous and overshadows the real threat of anti-Semitism happening every day in this town and throughout our country and the world this resolution will contribute to an unsafe atmosphere in West Orange by further emboldening only certain pro-israel voices in our town it would be highly inappropriate and unbalanced to pass a resolution focused solely on anti-Semitism in West Orange at this time it would also result in curtailing free speech for all of the residents of West Orange right at the moment when open dialogue is desperately needed as has been said the Jewish community in West Orange is diverse and Jewish thought is not monolithic many Jewish residents like me consider our Jewish identity to be deeply tied to specific values not loyalty to any state islamophobia and anti-Semitism are on a deeply concerning rise and the town prioritizing the safety of only one group while silencing others given the larger geopolitical issues impacting communities is irresponsible and racist the town should be working in collaboration with all communities to establish a resolution that keeps all communities impacted safe the actions of a government and or group should never be a reason for any Resident to feel unsafe we hope you will pursue other avenues for addressing the deeply painful rise in anti-Semitism and islamophobia in our town as a Jewish resident of West Orange I oppose the adoption of this resolution as it will actually cause more harm to our community the proposed anti-zionism equals anti-Semitism resolution ution will further silence and compromise the safety of Palestinian Arab and Muslim community members and allies in West Orange I would support a resolution regarding hate in our community that adds a substantive and meaningful anti-islamophobia component I ask that you Our Town Council stop the resolution in its one minute remaining if you feel an anti-hate resolution is necessary replace it with a resolution that condemns real anti-Semitism as well as islamophobia and all forms of racism thank you for your time and consideration Rachel welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record my name is Rachel Cohen and I've been a resident of West Orange since 2017 I'm also speaking about the agenda point on resolution 39-24 I come from a long line of social justice-minded Jews who after fleeing the prgrams in Eastern Europe made their home in the Boston area and later in New New York City you must vote no on this resolution if you truly stand against anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry and if you stand for peace and humanity and I'm going to lay out three main reasons why first I want to say in no uncertain terms that the resolution you have before you is not an anti-Semitism resolution as others have said tonight it would more appropriately be called an anti-free speech resolution because it equates any criticism of the state of Israel with anti-Semitism listen to how absurd that sounds we know there's real a real rise in anti-Semitism in our town in our state in our country and in the world and it is not coming from those who stand in solidarity with Palestine or who criticize Israel it's coming from farri neo-nazis and white supremacists many of whom consider themselves to be zionists this resolution so obscures the very idea of anti-Semitism that it could actually serve to undermine and as others have said distract from the very real danger of violent anti-Semitism or of anti-Semitic hate and bigotry it will do nothing to heal the growing divisions and tensions in our town and in fact it will inflame them secondly this resolution will further silence the V the voices of our beloved Palestinian Arab and Muslim neighbors making them once again feel unseen and unheard in the midst of unimaginable grief at what is taking place in God this town responded with tremendous compassion to the atrocities committed on October 7th and absolutely no one is saying that that wasn't appropriate but since then how many times do we have to say it more than 23,000 Palestinians have been killed the overwhelming majority are civilians half are children 80% of gazin have been forcibly displaced even the most seasoned humanitarian organizations are describing the situation as a apocalyptic intolerable and quote unprecedented in our time yet the mayor and her Administration have remained silent about Palestinian suffering even cancelled the official Palestinian flag raising event with their Preposterous claim that the phrase Palestinian Joy is resistance would incite violence and in so doing it has made it clear that it Embraces only certain members of our community it shows concern only for Jewish grief only for Jewish lives and finally this resolution would be yet another slap in the face for our Palestinian Arab and Muslim neighbors and all of us who consider ourselves their allies in that it would contribute to a more unsafe atmosphere it would further embolden only certain voices in our town that are already quite loud and as you have heard tonight there has been a deeply troubling rise in islamophobia and anti-arab racism in recent weeks and months in our town let me tell you a very short story from last Saturday last Saturday after the beautiful Palestinian flag and cultural celebration in our town on Friday night my son who's 10 wanted to have a hot cocoa stand before the rain and the snow he wanted because he had seen uh the beautiful event uh and heard so much about it he wanted to raise money for a new group in town uh of justice-minded residents called West Orange for Humanity so I posted on West Orange 411 I had many wonderful comments people came by and we raised $180 but what I found to my horror when I returned to my phone at the end of the day uh were hateful posts about uh about my son about and about my uh about about the organization um including likening our organization to uh Hamas and other terrorists um in the thread people had had been asking where the hot coco stand was uh our address was posted so I had to remove that this is to give you the tiniest tiniest flavor of what our Palestinian Arab and Muslim neighbors and community members are withstanding every single day acknowledging and celebrating the humanity of Palestinians and calling for an end to the genocidal military campaign in Gaza really it can only be twisted into anything even close to anti-Semitism when the current CR Isis is taken completely out of its geopolitical context when Palestinian lives are devalued when Palestinians are actually dehumanized and when hear me here when Jewish grief is weaponized in the service of an ethnonationalist State your time is up Julie Greenberg welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record good evening everyone my name is Julia I live in the Tory Corner neighborhood here in West Orange with my husband and daughter I'm speaking to you today as a Jew a Jew who calls for the end of the occupation and a permanent ceasefire in Gaza as the deepest expression of the Jewish imperative to help repair the world of tuno Lum please do not pass this misguided anti-free speech resolution anti-Semitism actual anti-Semitism is terrifyingly on the rise among right-wing anti-democratic forces all around this country including here in New Jersey as a Jew this scares and troubles me deeply this resolution's attempt to conflate anti-zionism and criticism of Israel distracts from the actual anti-Semitism and is an insult insult to my ancestors who suffered at the hands of the Nazis and who fled pams in Europe This resolution follows a deeply troubling pattern of silencing palestin and Arab Muslim voices here in West Orange exemplified by the cancellation of the Palestinian flag raising cultural event and it silences Jewish voices as well it silences my voice this resolution if passed makes me feel less safe as a Jew in West Orange not more safe it is unfathomable to me that I should be made to feel scared or worried to speak freely about the war or about Israel that I as a Jew would be labeled anti-semitic for that during this time of extreme sadness worry and tension among the Jewish and Muslim communities we should be working in collaboration with all communities to keep everybody safe please consider other avenues for addressing the deeply painful rise in anti-Semitism and islamophobia in our town I'm sure many residents including myself would be more than happy to be part of such an effort thank you Jeremy ch Chi please state your name and address for the record I'm Jeremy chatsky on Watson Avenue here in West Orange please continue I'm also gonna speak on the same resolution uh I am new to West Orange having just moved here with my wife and daughter at the end of the summer one of the things that attracted us to the area was the diversity of the population we wanted our daughter to grow surrounded by different kinds of people and viewpoints needless to say we were just stressed at the clumsy way the town attempted to silence the voices of some of our neighbors by canceling a Palestinian flag raising ceremony at Town Hall that they had already issued a permit for now I see the town is considering a resolution equating criticism Israel with anti-Semitism that would say to me a Jew whose grandmother barely escaped Germany alive much of the family was not so lucky that the town I moved to officially considers me an anti-semite because I feel that Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza I'm aware that there are many of our neighbors in the west or Jewish Community who strongly support the actions Israel is taking and of course that is their right as much as I disagree with that but please don't think that they speak for the entire West Orange Jewish Community they don't and Please be aware that if you pass the resolution as currently worded you are not doing this on behalf of the Jewish Community as a whole the resolution as currently worded is flawed in many ways because it links criticism of Israel to anti-Semitism it is clear that its intention is not to actually tackle the very real problem of anti-Semitism but to silence those who oppose Israel's actions the resolution cites the I definition of anti-semitism but that definition is so flawed that Amnesty International Human Rights Watch betm which is the biggest human rights organization in Israel and the ACLU have all urged it not to be adopted and and even the person who drafted it has called for it not to be adopted after he saw how it's been so cynically weaponized I could go on about the flaws in this resolution but I'd like to step back and say I'm sure that it's clear to everybody who's listening into this that anti-Semitism is on the rise in my short time here I've met other anti-zionist Jews as well as Palestinian and Arab American neighbors I know I speak for all of us and saying we must combat real anti-Semitism if there are neighbors here who feel unsafe on the streets because they are Jews because they are walking into a synagogue because they are wearing aam I know everybody on this call wants the town to address that regardless of what their views on Israel are and I have to assume that everybody on this call can clearly see how Islam islamophobia is also on the rise I'm sure I must speak for everyone when I say that no matter what we might disagree about nobody wants Palestinians Muslims or Arabs to feel unsafe on the streets of West Orange because they are walking into a mosque or wearing a head covering I must be speaking for everyone when I say that we are horrified by the hate crimes that have taken place in our country like the six-year-old Palestinian American girl stabbed to death or the three pal inian college students shot in the streets so there's a clear and frankly Simple Choice ahead of us you can pass this resolution as it stands and clearly state to all that the voices of a portion of the Jewish Community are more important to you than the voices of other Jews Muslims and Palestinians in the community but you also have the opportunity to table this resolution and instead pass a resolution that condemns real anti-Semitism as well as islamophobia by doing this you would be saying that despite the many deep deep disagreements we have in this community we are at least unified in the belief that all people in West Orange deserve to have their voices heard and that we at least can all agree that all in west or deserve to feel safe on our streets thanks for your time Matt Dragon welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record Matt Dragon 13 sharidan Avenue I'm willing to share my full name and address because as a white atheist man I'm not made to feel unsafe by the actions of our Township and our neighbors as previous speakers have shared they are my comments are on resolution 3924 just to establish where we're at in the moment in West Orange we have Township residents openly calling neighbors anti-semitic on Facebook groups and in real life we have residents driving by students walking out to call for a ceasefire and screaming Nazis at them we have Palestinian families watching their family members be murdered sometimes one by one sometimes in whole multigenerational households At Once by the very Israeli government that this resolution seems to single out and make it harder to criticize you might think this resolution doesn't have an enforcement mechanism it's not an ordinance it's more of a supportive gesture it's really just symbolic but that's not how it will be applied in passing this resolution as written those looking to divide those looking to shut down discussion those looking to silence will be empowered to sayl West Orange agrees your criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic or look the mayor and the council are on my side your statement is anti-Semitic you've already been played on the objections to and canceling of the flag raising you were on the right path and were pushed in the wrong direction because of who you listen to and what you chose to uncritically accept as truth don't fall for it again there are two mentions in the resolution about not applying double standards to Israel this is good Israel isn't special it should be expected to follow international law and its government should be expected to follow Israeli law yet there are at least two points where Israel is seemingly held to a different standard than every other country under the resolution quote by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist Endeavor and quote drawing comparisons of of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis the language here is interesting a state of Israel as in a theoretical idea that exists outside of any context is not a racist Endeavor but quote the the state of Israel is unquestionably a racist Endeavor so is the state of the United States of America both were founded on the in inarguably racist concept that white people could go into a place where quote no civilized people live and take it for their own just as our own founding documents enshrined that black people were inferior to whites Israel from its founding discriminated against Muslims and Arabs including the Arab Jews already living in Palestine even if we were talking about a state of Israel the government of that state is unquestionably racist marriage laws don't recognize marriages between Jews and Muslims Jews from across the world are given legal access to return to Israel even if their family has never lived there but Muslims and Arabs forced from their homes 75 years ago or as recently as today are forbidden from from that same return Arabs must use different roads must pass through different checkpoints are subject to highly invasive searches both of their person and their homes while Jews are subjected to none of that treatment passing this resolution means that the township of West Orange and you individually support those racist laws that racist treatment of non-jews and non-white residents of both Israel and Palestine what's next an ordinance that sets out what black or Muslim West Orange residents are allowed to do or not do will certain residents be invasively searched before they're allowed to attend your Council meetings because that's what you'd be supporting if any critique of this behavior is deemed anti-semitic by passing this resolution today the Israeli government is making a fascist push with prime minister Netanyahu and key cabinet members looking to consolidate power just as the Nazis did before World War II if you pass this making this statement would be considered anti-semitic in West Orange but it's simply a recitation of facts facts that have nothing to do with the religion of Israeli elected officials we are also seeing a fascist push here in the US and the white nationalism that is behind that push is far more dangerous to all of us Jewish or not than any imagined anti-semitic implications of criticism holding a government to the same standards as every other government but by muddying the waters providing those who wish to do harm to Jews and want to be able to say things that encourage others to do the same a place to hide in a way of accusations of anti-Semitism passing this resolution would benefit the white nationalists and fascists in our own country and state this resolution undermines the very principles it claims to uphold it will make Jews less safe it will make Palestinians less safe it makes Arabs less safe it divides our Township while purporting to unify it it allows our Township government to be weaponized shut down conversation and debate please vote no thank you council president before I bring in the next Resident I just want to make a brief announcement that some areas of West Orange are reporting a minor pow out power outage uh we obviously are not affected and I will keep you updated on any information I receive uh Todd Todd doovi welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record uh Todd doovi Bernette terce um I'm going to talk about some of the other uh items on the agenda um I agree with uh the sentiments on uh the anti-Semitism resolution um it shouldn't even be on the agenda um one of the uh matters that concerns me is our elected officials are fiduciaries uh and the responsibility of a fiduciary is to not only avoid conflicts of interest but to avoid the impression of a conflict of interest several of the resolutions for professional service agreements involve companies that have contributed funds to the campaigns of members sitting on this Council while this may not be illegal to engage someone who is contributed to the campaigns of sitting council members it absolutely fails the sniff test for fiduciaries avoiding conflicts of interest and contributing to a candidate's Campaign Act absolutely creates not just an impression of a conflict of interest but an actual conflict of interest so I think uh members of the council need to consider these as these uh issues when considering what companies to approve and not approve I've also got specific questions about some of these um there are I think four items for appraisers uh one one is for commercial tax appeals one is for appeals generally and then the other two are just for Appraisal Services why do we need all of these different appraisers um uh so that's that's a first question the resolution to approve uh W says Bond counsel um needs to be considered uh W Lance drafted the Redevelopment agreement um for the downtown Redevelopment area and myself and a number of other people have reviewed that agreement um and some some of us have real estate expertise myself included and that agreement failed in numerous instances to protect the interests of the taxpayers of this town and on that basis I feel that W has shown in practice that they don't deserve to continue to represent the taxpayers of this Town um there's a resolution calling for a forensic psychologist forgive me but I don't even understand what the forensic psychologist is so my question is why do we need a forensic psychologist on staff uh or on their contract for the town um the the budget item for which totals about $40 million or which represents about 40% of last year's budget which was around 100 million why are we putting forward a temporary budget when we should be producing a budget the the full year budget um in one shot what what I find this Administration likes to do is PE do things in peace Meal which distracts from the bigger picture and I think the comments tonight have shown that this Administration lacks perspective on the bigger picture and here it continues in our financial dealings uh namely this budget um so I think that needs to be looked at um Richard Tran resolution um first of all that shouldn't be on the agenda considering the fact that the the litigation between the council and the litigation has UNR been unresolved there's no decision yet been issued therefore it doesn't belong here to be considered um there's plenty of arguments to suggest that Richard Tran doesn't deserve to be the town attorney um and I support that feeling um that's all I've got on the agenda items for tonight so thank you very much for hearing me ar welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the record good evening my initials are AR for the record and I would like to Omit my full name and address for safety I will share though that I am a new resident in West Orange and was Disturbed to see that shortly after the attack on October 7th the state of Israel was given full affirmation from the United States to quote unquote defend itself even if that defense meant that upwards of 23,000 Palestinians would be k killed and displaced in the process in solidarity with all of the civilians killed Palestinian Jewish black and white students at our local high school and residents in this town bravely demonstrated these demonstrations reflect the answer to the society that we wish to see United Fair loving and forward moving forward with this resolution to inate criticism of Israel to anti-Semitism will not only divide this town further but move this town and Global culture further to Fascism yes this issue is a global Affair but will have implications from local to International Council it is never a good sign or practice to restrict freedom of speech especially when it comes to the criticism of a government and government officials a government that is blatantly Ultra nationalist authoritarian making moves for economic self-sufficiency misss Slaughter of another group of people and using anti-arab racism to win people to nationalism patriotism and extreme militarism without question all qualities that indicate fascism again I understand that this is a local body but I warn you Council and everyone listening that this resolution will be a further violation of our human rights and elicit the silencing of honest working people that are rightfully speaking up for human life loss and the show and showing us the best world possible please tonight reject resolution 3924 as is and take a stand against fascism no further comment doy manga welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record Sally manga West Orange AR W orange members wish the new council president great success this year and the same to the new council member liaison we look forward to some wonderful Innovation and collaboration with the residents once again and congratulations to you Joe uh on your appointment to the New Jersey state historic commission you deserve it you've worked hard you're dedicated to the history of West Orange and your your fascination and your joy and Delight in in it is much appreciated and I enjoy listening to your podcast too thank you uh this is my personal Viewpoint after listening to some of the earlier speakers uh to the Arab members of our community you're expressing the exact fear that Jewish residents are feeling about their own safety I would like to mention that the so-called cultural event held last Friday at Town Hall was publicly advertised on a worldwide terrorist website what are people to think of your intentions and strategies zionism's purpose is not anti-arab it is pro-jewish Homeland so to my Arab neighbors while some Arabs may have lost their land you forget to mention that all Arab Nations declared war on Israel in 4867 and 73 and ongoing violent attacks only because Jews organized and declared a government and Nation first yet still two million Arabs live in Israel and are represented in the knesset that is not a parde what did Palestinians expect to happen when Hamas attacked a peace rally on October 7th Jews live under the threat of Perpetual anger and violence Jewish houses of worship here in New Jersey and West Orange must have security guards nevertheless there must be a resolve amongst all of us to keep everyone safe and that comes from a fair assessment of history and responsibility be taken on all sides with the extreme views and rewriting of History being discarded on to other agenda agenda items our Green West Orange members support the passage of the gas powerered blower prohibition it Remains the most polluting piece of equipment on the planet and we need to adapt to sustainable practices in order to protect ourselves from the wild weather including that which we are experiencing tonight that's keeping everyone home residents will be grateful for the passage of this ordinance even though we must wait until 202 six for a full prohibition I would also like to request a no vote for Paul GLE as planning director for all the times our Green West Orange members have attended zoning and planning board meetings we sorely lacked an independent voice to make the projects better in my experience Mr GLE has not been willing or able to improve upon development proposals leaving it to the residents to make that effort so it would be great to engage a planner willing to object and strengthen the proposals also uh requesting an alternative environmental consultant who can help us protect the remaining land in West Orange which is urgently needed to prevent flooding so thank you very much for your consideration bow welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the record Sheila can you hear us Sheila you are muted please unmute yourself and state your full name and address for the record hi it's Sheila lco West Orange New Jersey please continue West Orange should be a safe and well safe I'm going to start again West Orange should not just be a safe Community but a welcome Community for all tonight I asked the Town Council to pass a resolution to confront condemn and combat anti-Semitism from its first paragraph This resolution recognizes that hatred targeted against any persecuted group is not to be tolerated it does not shut down free speech only something like making threats and shouting obscenities would cause someone to possibly lose their right to free speech this resolution does not punish anyone who speaks out non-violently to ex exercise their right for free speech similar resolutions have been passed by surrounding New Jersey towns and no one's right to free speech has been diminished there with the rise of anti-Semitism throughout the world West Orange residents need reassurance that our local government and residents understand and Define anti-Semitism so we can condemn anti-sm ISM when we see it in our community we are a nonpartisan government for a reason our purpose is not to engage in a geopolitical debate what your Jewish neighbors need to what do your Jewish neighbors need to feel safe and welcome we need to focus on the businesses in our community community and ensuring that all residents feel safe and welcome Jewish people in town do not want to see swastikas or slurs painted on properties Jewish people in town already have to be on their guard when walking to synagogues as many of us have been the targets of pedestrians and persons in vehicles shouting out anti-semitic slurs When we arrive at our synagogues we need to be protected by armed guards as there have been so many threats and violent attacks at synagogues here and in neighboring towns in the past few years I have been asked by other people in town to explain the actions of the Israel governments and the Army just because I'm Jewish that is not right by approving this resolution against anti-Semitism tonight our Council can ensure that even though the world is in a terrible turmoil and there is hatred and violence against Jews in our community of West Orange we will be safe in our community we will not have to tolerate hateful and intrusive speech that makes us feel intimidated wherever anti-Semitism flourishes hatreds of all kinds Thrive here in West Orange let us demonstrate that we are a safe and welcoming Community to all and anyone who wants to make any uh Define their groups um they feel they are being discriminated against let them make a let them Define what that is let them make a separate resolution and let's adopt it thank you very much peace Michael jine welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record good evening my name is Michael jvini I'm at 68 manga Road in West Orange uh I'm here to speak upon uh the leaf blower ordinance uh that you will be voting on to uh to pass this evening and I am speaking here to implore you to reconsider and not jump into and and pass this ordinance uh the the season has come to an end and being in business for all the years that I have been in business um this is the first year where in the other municipalities we have been uh restricted from using the gas blowers and uh as pretty much predicted it was a uh dramatic increase in cost to all my clients in those communities where we were no longer able to use the blowers um on the majority the cost doubled and for a Chosen Few uh it was Triple and then some the reason being is because the blow are ineffective in comparison to a commercial grade gas leaf blower um electric blowers are fine if you are a homeowner um but you need several batteries to keep charged uh I have a double battery pack leaf blower that we use and at full strength which you need during the month of November that battery lasted roughly 30 to 40 minutes and then both batteries were discharged fortunately I do have generators on board our trucks that uh constantly charge and constantly run all throughout the day to maintain the charge of these batteries there have been some cold Mornings in November where the batteries would not charge because of the drop of the temperature this is an ineffective way to do business as a homeowner it may be fine but as a business owner you are hampering our business and our attempt to be profitable um and it is coming to the cost of the residences my clients themselves we talk about the blowers and how they are pollutants to the air and to the environment uh I'd like to know exactly what blowers you're referring to um all our blowers have passed the highest EPA standards therefore they are safe to use in the United States um so I'm just wondering how uh a group of people or even some of the Town Council can supersede the EPA and make their own determinations over what the EPA clears to be safe for the country they state that uh they blow toxic pollutants in the air again I want to know which ones you're referring to because a two cycle gas blower uses oil maybe those are the ones you're referring to but what about the four cycle gas blowers that just run on a regular gas motor the same motor that is going to be attached to the product that is using the turbine blower and the same motor that is attached to a lawn mower so I I find to find I fail to find what what the problem is with that piece of equipment the um the blowers that are used as a wheel blower I don't find them to be much different than the turbine blower so how is the turbine blower safer for the environment when it does the same thing as every other blower does which is blow particulate even electric blowers blow particulate matter so some of the the findings in the science uh I I find to be quite flawed and I know that starting in 2024 we're going to be having a uh uh a temporary use of the gas blowers we're looking to start at March 15 again not only are you restricting the use of the product that we can use uh that we have to use but now you're restricting the time frame when we can use it in March we need the entire month to get our properties cleaned up the only time that we would start around March 15th is if we have inclement weather that keeps us out until March 15th other from then we really need to start March 1st again you're handcuffing the business owner in a way that he could be profitable and serve his clients properly so in closing I just asked take a look at the dates and make corrections to the dates we need to start March 1st and I do implore you again not to move forward with it because the electric products are not at all compatible for a business and a commercial entity thank you myam pleasa welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record Hi how are you my name is Miriam and I live in West Orange um I asked the members of the council to adopt the IH definition of anti-semitism it shouldn't have to be official but the continuing rise in hatred says otherwise choosing to acknowledge the hatred against the people who have been historically oppressed and persecuted and has seen an over 300% increase in hate acts since October alone is not silencing or avoiding hatred of any other people having trained and educated at the Museum of Jewish Heritage a living Memorial to the Holocaust some of the language accusations and acts against Jews happening today horrifically mimic the lead up to some of the darkest days in Jewish history it's a scary day when our history textbooks are replaying in modern times I watched a few Boe meetings ago as a local Rabbi was heckled when he shared a losing loved ones kept my child home when a bomb threat was called into her school and saw Hal torn posters of kidnap kidna children from Israel here and elsewhere throughout New Jersey from verbal and physical attacks against Jews at malls or even protests with visibly anti-semitic uh posters chants or attacks against Jewish synagogues or schools I have personally experienced acts of anti-Semitism here in West Orange even the old anti-semitic tropes that Jewish communities have favoritism influence and commit government interference live on very loud and clear this idea that symbolically protecting Jewish lives means hurting others is not only incorrect but also deflecting from the very real issues at hand please make a statement that this town stands against anti-Semitism and that Jewish lives do matter in West Orange thank you uh I apologize if I'm going to mispronounce your name farha choko welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record can you hear me yes please continue good evening my name is Fara CH and I'm I'm actually a resident of Maplewood but I'm here to oppose the resolution 39:24 uh when I stand against atrocities of Russia I'm not called anti-russian when I stand against the atrocities of China I'm not called anti- Chinese when I speak against white supremacy I'm not called anti-white but when I dare even whisper against the barbaric actions of Israel it's interesting that we are immediately labeled as anti-semite self-hating Jews or Holocaust deniers by these running out of excuses anti-human Zionist I will pause for a few seconds for you to reflect on this narrative and propaganda of words that they unleash in this moment it is essential that we address the ongoing tra tragedies in the Gaza Strip parents are still forced to witness their children being burned crushed and shot to death we all have witnessed the horrifying images of men stripped to their underwear blindfolded beaten and humiliated children are still becoming orphans people are still starving and homes jobs schools are non-existential while the Israeli government officials are openly talking about the genocide and ethnic cleans of the Palestinian people by forced expulsion and giving the land to the Zionist land Stealers the lives of the Palestinians have been reduced to a living hell endured through 75 years and 3 months of brutal occupation by the Israeli apari regime this oppression must stop the latest murder toll stands at 22185 and the official number of stands at 7,000 but God knows how many people are stuck under the rubble decomposing every hour in Gaza 15 people are killed 12 children have been killed since this public meeting started 35 people are injured 42 bombs are dropped 12 buildings are destroyed and now over 70% of all buildings inhabitable these figures would give anybody a pause but yet the Biden Administration continues to provide unwavering political and Financial support to Israel the United States of America stands alone on the world stage isolating itself from its own population this strategy is neither beneficial locally nor internationally the Administration has once again bypassed the government protocols to fund Aid and abet the ongoing genocide in Gaza it is evident that this Administration primarily serves the top 1% while the 99% are seemingly nonexist non-existent in their eyes now it is up to you the local representatives to put the administration in its place and to remind them of their Duty towards the people they have sworn to defend basic human rights should not be an exception even for societies that are not perfect it is time to take a step towards saving humanity and honor the lives of Palestinians who have suffered far too long whether it is in Palestine or anywhere else in the world don't let the bullies win it is your chance to stand on the right side of history please please rethink your one-sided resolution and please do not isolate your constituents and their right to free speech thank you Richard Groves welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record Richard Groves West Aron res resident uh first I want to congratulate um the new president of council ruford um I know you're going to do some great things moving forward can I be heard can you guys hear me yes please continue uh and uh I have reached out to some of the other members on the council regarding this 3924 resolution and didn't hear back I heard back from uh Bill Rutherford and councilman Williams councilman and I have to say that I I am I am appalled appalled um by the seeing ity of this resolution not his Essence regarding intolerance of hate and bias but the overly overt difference to one group the Jewish community in the town of many groups who also have face hate bias and discrimination and for a perspective here you know um at first glance not from and from a distance I'm identified as an African-American no matter where I am in world as such I can be subjected to bias and discrimination and happen now this is not the case if you are not of color generally speaking yet I have not seen a resolution regarding bias for people of color I say people of color because I want to be inclusive of those who identify as such so I did a little research just to put this in perspective since the 1800 we're talking about travesties since the 1800s in 1866 there was Massacre of of African-Americans 1875 another Massacre American 15 to 16 in 18 in Kovac massacre in 1872 over 150 blacks killed in 1898 in Wilmington North Carolina 8 1906 in Atlanta Georgia 1919 East East Street Louisiana in 1919 Elaine Arkansas over 200 people they actually called this period red summer in 1920 Tulsa Oklahoma over 3,000 people murder 1923 Ros Rosewood you may say this this happened long ago but it still happened should I be called it antiblack should there be a resolution for antiblack what about the DM Crow laws the Black Law elimination of affirmative action redlining in the United States that was officially officially held by the by the federal government so let me bring it closer to this timeline 2015 mother Emanuel Church you know in Charleston North Carolina guy came into the church sat in the Pew and then he commits to kill nine people in the jail is there a resolution for that BR close to 2022 up in Buffalo East Side the top Supermarket gentleman walks and kills 11 out of 13 were black in this area should there have been a resolution that we said no hate crimes then I'm so tired of this bias or this Defence for this community um in Israel who if you read his historically read the history it's horrible horrible and let me just say this this all breeds just resentment in the community that is built up according to the most recent State um US Census we have a population of roughly 47,000 people 47% identified identified as being black being white I'm sorry 27 African-American 19.7% Hispanic 6% Asians 8.6% two or more racist which encompasses 61% 61.3% of our population this town and yet and yet this Administration insults the larger population which which includes Palestinians Muslims and Arabs right by taking not taking them into consideration and the history of bias that I my community has always still suffers from it yet there are no resolutions for that so shame on this Administration but I believe you have some courage won't pass this resolution but I believe we can do better if you have coverage to do so that's all I have to say council president thank you Mr Fagan um I understand we have at least 25 uh more hands raised is that still an accurate uh number yes council president there are 292 attendees and there are 27 hands raised currently so uh for those that are um wishing to share and public comment um if if you are uh going to comment on the gas blowers which is up for um second reading tonight there will be separate public comment for that um we certainly do appreciate um you know how many people are here and how late it'll be but for the sake of getting through the the agenda tonight uh if you are commenting on uh the gas blower ban which is on for second reading we will have a separate public comment just for that ordinance when we get to it so if you would please hold your public comment on the gas blower ban until we get to that uh Second reading of the ordinance thank you uh Mr figan please continue Lisa Davis welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record uh good evening my name is Lisa Davis and I'm a resident of West Orange like others have expressed I too do not want to give my address because of the issue of safe safety I want to first of all say that I agree with much of what has been said about how problematic uh resolution 39 uh2 24 is and as a black person whose ancestors were kidnapped and brought into this country I can tell you right now that my experiences with West arms that others have have relayed are not that those are not my experiences I've never really felt safe as some other people who were black have mentioned um wherever we go uh you know we wear who we are on our sleep I'm very proud to I never wanted to not be any other way um but I have been and and because of my color I know what looks beneath the surface in these towns I'm originally from East orang but I've lived in Maplewood lived in West Orange and I can tell you that my mother uh was a was uh threatened with arrest and a $500 bail when she was mind when she you know for over a cracked sidewalk in West orang uh you know that's just one of the the examples but what would happen on October 7th brought from beneath the surface is so very troubling as so many tactics are happening to delay the much necessary conversations and the much necessary concern but what is happening in Palestine all the delay tactics comes with death with people just uh dying every single day and being blown away I have seen I have heard about the statement that was made by a board member of a West Orange calling Palestinians speaking of them in a horrible way calling them killers and and rapists and all of that kind of stuff I have seen the town put out a statement showing nothing but concern for Israel well in the meantime labeling people young kids who no longer want this this atmosphere of violence and constant war and want to speak out and show compassion for what's going on in Palestine I have seen them labeled as violent there was somebody who took out a petition saying that they were calling for the extermination of Jewish people that is not right at all I come to this council meeting about a couple of weeks ago and where the council had at least the chance to show that they were going to be impartial and try to be fair that's not what happened at all and you can't undo that you can't undo that but to sit here in this council meeting and be forced to wait five hours and then to be voted down that we couldn't speak and then after we did leave to see that they opened up for public comment and that um you know and to hear these these horrible accusations that people were making against us against those who spoke at that at that uh at that rally it is just unconscionable and especially since no one who looks like me on the city council would be on that city council if it were not for people like Martin Luther King like Malcolm like all of these people now celebrated just celebrated like they're like it's just some declaration for standing up for for civil rights and for diversity for for all people for all people to be included we wouldn't be talking about no diversity in West arms at all if it were not for these people and to see their names to see what they represent be made a mockery is just insufferable I saw a black lives matter sign out on the on the the West orang Town Council but you can't talk about black lives matter and then turn around and acted like Palestinians lives don't mean anything you can't have that we cannot have that we need I agree with those who say that this resolution should not be adopted and we should and if it is going to be a it has to be some serious discussion and holistic conversation about what is going on and not just something that focuses on one group of people then lastly no one should have the right to control The Narrative of anybody fighting for freedom freedom that word means everything to Black people and to have people now try to vilify that and to try to control the narrative that's not right because Martin was called a terrorist he was killed by the United States Malcolm all of these people that we look at as Freedom Fighters they were all called terrorists we cannot have that lastly I will say the town should have taken the position oh it's up okay well we have to the town has to do better thank you Joyce Ruden welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record hi Joyce Ruden West Orange um I did want to speak about the gas blower but in the interest of time and out of respect to Bill I will um hold off those comments um so I will address my second and third comment which is that our Township desperately needs a fulltime planner a planner like we had in Susan Borg who was both a planner and an architect we need one to avoid this Patchwork development and endless squabbles over all of our variances we need a beautifying Vision that can only be provided by a professional with these credentials hiring Mr GLE as a second planning director along with Miss Gary Adams does not provide this Mr gle's firm represents dozens of developers we need somebody who only represents West Orange please do not move forward with this but instead hire a full-time planner secondly I have to object to retaining Mr Wayne defo as the environmental consultant many of us heard his presentation on on the West Essex Highlands at the Wilshire Grand and were shocked to hear him publicly state that he would have no problem destroying half of that Forest his vision of environmental guardianship includes fencing out Wild life in Le of replacing trees I'd like to encourage our Council to move forward in a responsible direction for the environment and the quality of life let's work together to hire a town planner and reject environmental Consultants who favor dissemination over preservation thank you so much Michaela Bennett welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record good evening Michaela Bennett old Indian wrote I almost uh I almost hung up because when I heard 27 I said oof I raised my hand very late happy New Year everybody I hope you all stay safe warm with electricity I'm only here to speak about I think it's resolution 9-24 for the resolution regarding tren's contract I urge this Council to not retain Mr Tren or his firm for any future legal work and I will give you my reasons why or at least one additional reason why something I've learned quite recently on Tuesday November 14th I sent an Oprah request to the township the subject of the Oprah request was AOC Administrative Office of the Court's communication regarding a resolution to enable the township attorney to prosecute in Municipal Court matters I'm going to read it to you pursuant to the Oprah and common law please provide a copy of the request from the AOC regarding what Mr Moon from Mr tren's office calls a quote reaffirming resolution permitting Mr Tran and members of his firm to prosecute in West Orange municipal court when Mr Moon presented this quote reaffirming resolution to this council at the time councilman Rutherford asked a very specific question this was on October 11th 2022 two hours 51 minutes and 58 seconds into that meeting I'll give you the time stamp again two hours 51 minutes and 58 seconds into the October 11 2022 meeting count at the time councilman Rutherford asks Mr Moon a specific question and Mr Moon answers the question those answers were foundational to this Oprah request what I've learned from the oper request after being told by the clerk that an extension of time was going to be needed to locate the information that I was seeking to review it and redact it and that I would receive it Monday December 11th what I received on December 5th was a resolution it's called it's entitled a reaffirming resolution enabling Mr Tran the right to prosecute in our Township a reaffirming resolution as I understand what that means a reaffirming resolution it means affirming again essentially that he had the right to prosecute and he was receiving a new right to prosecute and as you all know the prosecutors in town are approved and appointed to prosecute annually you do this every year for them for the judges as well it took a bunch of back and forth with Miss Carnival to actually get the email from the administrative office of the courts now I'm going to read you a little bit of information Miss yvon Bowers our court administrator one minute remaining had attended a meeting with Steve samoji the assistant director at the AOC there was a big uproar she said at the meeting because she was saying that the township attorney was Prosecuting and according to Mr samoji he couldn't prosecute without a resolution approved by the council permitting him to do do so here's his email hi Ivonne The Authority is laid out in statute which provides that a Township attorney can also be appointed as a municipal prosecutor to prosecute local violations importantly though the person must be appointed by the mun municipality to serve in both positions being able to prosecute in Municipal Court is not an authority that automatically comes with the position of Municipal attorney council do not approve this contract investigate whether Tren ever had the authority to prosecute in our Municipal Court please do not let Mr Tran continue to act as he chooses and Bild our Township thank you Doren welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the record good evening Dorene Richmond Stanford Avenue West Orange please continue thank you I appreciate that Miss Davis mentioned Dr Martin Luther King his day is coming up for our observance I would like to remind everyone that Dr King dearly loved Israel and the Jewish people not only but also because the Jewish people were for most and on the lines of the Civil Rights Movement anyone who knows history knows that we were in Selma we marched and in some instances also died for civil rights so it was a good idea to bring up Dr King and I appreciate that she did so I'm not going to discuss anything National or International this is a town meeting and I hope that the town does adopt the resolution on anti-Semitism which our neighboring towns have done without any loss of free speech to the residents therein however it has helped in the fact that anti-Semitism in the United States is increased by 337 per since October 7th and 60% of all religious-based hate crimes Target the Jewish people I regret if our Muslim neighbors feel frightened that is not appropriate but 60% of religious-based hate crimes Target Jewish people which is why we need the anti-semitic resolution and one of the myths that it's okay to say from The River To The Sea which was said at at the West Orange High School walk out is not okay that chant calls for the annihilation of Israel as a state and the destruction of every Jewish person on the planet that is not okay that is not peaceful that is not productive neither was it productive that some of the people at that walk out felt it necessary to make a hand gesture and I will defer not being more specific from their group towards the Jewish Group which was peacefully singing I think you know which hand gesture I'm referring to so I think that we can not say that there is safety for the Jewish residents in this town or peace towards the Jewish residents in this town inata is not a legitimate form of resistance it celebrates terrorism our town does not celebrate terrorism Our Town celebrates diversity and in that regard I ask our town to support its Jewish residents by affirming this resolution on anti-Semitism which all of our neighbor many of our neighboring towns have done with no problem whatsoever it's an internationally accepted definition we won't talk about some institutions that don't accept it because they're anti-semitic institutions to begin with so of course they don't accept it but other people throughout the world do accept it and therefore I think it's not an issue it's not controversial it's not rocket science for West Orange to do what its neighbors have done and accept this definition of anti-semitism thank you and happy New Year Zoom user uh please State your full name and address for the record welcome to the meeting hi Joe rosada West STS New Jersey please continue okay um last week I was privileged to go to Israel actually I was actually in the south where I saw the houses that the Hamas the terrorist organization burned kids that were that were they were living they were playing and burned them alive in a room I have pictures of this I saw it with my own eyes I've seen what has been going on there I went to the music festival where everybody was was you know you know was with peace we pray prayed there we had a evening prayer we we you know and I saw the pictures they had pictures of every single person that died 247 people that were just there just with for peace and were shot down they were raped they were go on and on and on I was there personally with my own eyes I saw this and I saw where they where Hamas came in through the borders and what I saw was nobody could should ever see nobody should ever go through I came from Iran I escaped from Iran to come to America to come to West New Jersey where I live to live peacefully and not be discriminated and not go through anti-Semitism I am a person that telling you exactly what happened to me as a person as a person that lived in that in that region the way I was taught math is if I kill one American and I kill one Jew how many did I kill as a four-year-old that's how I learned math so I strongly suggest I strongly recommend that I cannot walk down the street my kids walk down the street in West Orange and somebody coming and saying you're dirty Jew or coming and saying ceasefire or in front of my eyes taking a poster and ripping it down it is we Liv in America we are in a place where we can we should not be living like this I should not be walking out outside to go to my synagogue and be worried or my kids be worried or going to a rally where I'm singing to to God and somebody gives me a gesture gesture a finger to me why is that okay why are we saying that that's fine and let's not go to the resolution this resolution must be passed and if we don't pass it we have to as as you know as the advertisement said we have to answer to to higher authority we do because this is absolutely ridiculous that I had to live in West Orange New Jersey walk around and be scared to walk around and my kids who I have going to you know to the parks or here and there be worried what are they going to come home how are they going to come home and I cannot live in a place like this and I you know and I hope that you guys tonight will pass this resolution and will never have to go through what I've gone through in my life as a young person and I've the videos that You' have seen yes there have been a lot of kids a lot of civilians have P have died in in Palestine and I feel bad but if you look at them you ask them they will tell you it's not them it's Hamas that puts them in that position it puts them in front of them and then goes back and then shoots at us it is something that it's you know like it's it's it's black and white it's it's obvious and if you if you open your eyes you can see this it's all over the place everybody knows it everybody sees it but I've seen it with my own eyes and I've I was there last week last Tuesday I was there and I saw exactly what happened so I beg of you I plead with you that don't let this West Orange be part of the whole like the Middle East and or whatever it is that we have to be scared to walk in our streets please pass this resolution tonight thank you Noah welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record no can you hear us yes please state your name and address for the record hi I'm my name is NOA and I'm a West Orange resident and I am addressing the agenda item 39-24 um I stood in the town hall addressing the Town Council about my concern about the rising islamophobia and racism T in town in November two months later I can confidently say that things have gotten worse it is ironic that the anti-Semitism resolution is being pushed by our local Zionist Community while they're conducting a Witch Hunt on a vocal Muslim and Arab voice in town me according to them they quote unquote see me and they quote unquote see me for what I am and that I have quote unquote an Insidious agenda the tremendous effort made into monitoring me has even led to people who once blocked me for telling them off to unblock me to dissect each and every word I utter or type the various attempts of tarnishing my repetition are mindboggling by those who want a resolution passed to protect themselves putting words into my mouth such as as I am past Hames and that I am a Hames supporter and that I carry a terrorist flag since I'm being here recorded and watched by everyone in town I will say clear and Loud for the record I am past condemning any form of Acts of terrorism done by people claiming to practice My Religion it is not fair to burden me with the responsibility to speak on behalf of them as a matter of fact no muslim should carry that burden to ask a Muslim whether they approve any acts of terrorism is based on pure racism in islamophobia asking your Muslim neighbor whether they condemned Hames or not is indeed a question rooted in racism and islamophobia because why on Earth would they applaud that why would your neighbor in town actually be happy to see anyone being harmed the only answer is that you have a bias towards people like me and expect them to to applaud those atrocities I refuse to allow anyone to burden me or any other Muslim with a question whether we condemn Hamas Isis or any form of terrorism I should be able to peacefully practice my faith as my my given First Amendment right without taking responsibility for extremist ideologist there's an appalling rise of islamophobia Nationwide according to the Council on American Islamic relations there has been a 26 16% increase in reported bias incidents ever since the October 7th attack consequent consequently our local Imam Hassan Sharif in the neighboring town in Newark was murdered for yet unknown reasons but is but it is easy to make the connection unfortunately West Orange is not immune to this phenomenon manifestations of anti- Arabic and islamophobic attitudes are showcasing not only on our local online communities but also Within this very Town Hall despite our joint effort to engage with a conversation with the mayor on how to show the Palestinian Community Support they need during these difficult times she decided to be suade by the Zionist community of believing that our intentions of the Palestinian flag Rising was dangerous and hateful no other cultural event has been fought and scrutinized by our communities such as the Palestinian flag raing which indicates the town's attitude toward your local Palestinians mayor cotney has had able has had ample chances to show solidarity towards both communities but have decided to take a one-sided stance by canceling the Palestinian flag raising additionally community members have reached out to me in regard to stalled Egyptian flag raising applications they were told to choose February 28th as its independence day of Egypt however the Egyptian independence day is July 23rd not to mention the Ramadan event application that is submitted that was submitted in December and is being dragged and dissected so uh let me be clear on one thing no one in this town wants a Jewish neighbor to be hurt or discriminated against including myself we're all a part of this Village by living the true standards of hate has no home here the town should be working in collaboration with all communities in West Orange to establish a resolution that keeps all communities impacted by this war safe I will hope you will pursue other avenues for addressing the deeply painful R of anti-Semitism and islamophobia in town I have high hopes for our West Orange Community seeing the passion and love of the residents of West Orange including council president Rutherford and councilwoman keber Michael who came out on Friday to celebrate Palestinian Joy gives me hope thank you Andrea Sultan please state your name and address for the record welcome to the meeting Andrea Sultan can you hear us Andrea Sultan can you hear us we have to move on last last call Andrea Sultan can you hear us Renee Glick please state your name and address for the record welcome to the meeting hi Renee Glick West Orange can you hear me yes please continue okay just to give you a little personal color um my grandparents too as um many have indicated on on this call have survived the Nazi death camps and both my parents were born in displaced persons camps and came to America when they were two years old um as um some have said since the October 7th br brutal attack unprecedent attack on Israel anti-semitic incidents have surged in the US and around the world um and just to um equate anti-Semitism and anti-s um anti-zionism and anti-Semitism to clarify when Jews are targeted and attacked and Jewish institutions are vandalized for Israeli policies and actions that is unaccept unacceptable that is anti-Semitism um I believe um earlier on the call darene had mentioned this statistic this is actually from the FBI director Christopher Ray that 60% a whopping 60% of all religious-based hate crimes in the US since October 7th have targeted Jewish people the Jewish people are at the the largest Target of um hate crimes now in this country um and um I think someone else had mentioned that since October 7th that the percentage increase over the past two months is a 33 7% um there is an organization named the American Jewish committee and they actually came out with four very specific reasons for this anti-Semitism and a lot of it are due to false myths some of this were actually cited in this toil council meeting one of them is that Israel's committing genocide we all theour the loss of innocent Palestinian life but genocide was first coined in response to the Holocaust H it refers to acts committed with the intent to destroy a national ethnic racial or religious group the Palestinian population has in reality quintupled since 1967 so calling Israel's actions genocidal is a modern-day blood Lial that purposely distorts the Holocaust the genocidal actor is in reality Hamas whose Charter in 1988 calls for the murder of Jews worldwide um this is one of um um four myths being perpetuated again which it makes the reason all the more strong that we need this anti-Semitism um resolution passed the other which I've heard tonight as well is that Israel is a white settler colonial state the opposite is true Jews have called the land of Israel home for a millennia as proven by historical and archaeological evidence the majority of Israelis are people of different ethnicities colors backgrounds from the Middle East and North Africa um the other two I won't go into detail with the other two again this is is the reason for the rise in anti-Semitism and why it's so important but it's from The River To The Sea chant which basically is a rallying cry for the Eraser of the state of Israel and the Jewish people and um the word the use of the which is um again uh calls to globalize anata means a celebration of the brutally violent Terror campaigns C against um Israeli citizens so again um just to sum up um I think it is dire statistics um because of these statistics and because of alarming rise and anti-Semitism the numbers brought for forth nationally and um as well as incidents on a local um local level that this resolution be passed thank you thank you Mrs Glick um Mr Fagan how many hands do we still have uh raised for public comment uh council president there are 29 hands raised for public comment so um for those that are still waiting to um voice your concerns um it's now 9:22 if each of you took the five minutes uh that you're allotted it would be 11:30 before we finished public comment and we do have an agenda ahead of us um for for our sake please um we understand the uh depth of um impact that this particular uh resolution number 39-24 is having and we are prepared to have uh some robust conversation about it when we get to the agenda but for the sake of actually being able to get to the agenda please um if if what you have to say has already been said please just allow it to stand if um you can and you if you feel you must speak tonight please abbreviate your comments uh because we do have a ton of work to do and the other concern is that as this storm gets worse and we've already had power outages uh some of which have been on this call already some of the council members and administrators have had uh Power difficulties as have other residents I would hate for us to go so late that not actually able to do the work uh because we end up losing power or having members that cannot uh contribute uh because they lose power so please uh if you can do not repeat what's already been said if you feel you must continue speaking about 39-24 please abbreviate your comments um thank you uh to the rest of the commenters and to all of those that have already gone Mr Fagan it's back in your hands uh thank you council president it appears we've lost uh councilwoman Gerber Michael it possibly to a power outage I will check check with her while this next speaker is on she has lost power um she is trying to reconnect um so you can continue but that is the exact issue that we're trying to avoid thank you Mr fagy thank you for the clarification Mitch welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the record SPS and we're actually sharing a computer so thank you for listening to me I will try not to repeat what some of the people on this call have already said so eloquently I am here in support of the um 39-24 as well and I just would like to add a little bit to that um can you just state your name and address for the record oh I'm sorry it's Monica schwarzbach I'm in West Orange I think that some of the comments that we've heard in the beginning of this is exactly why we need to have this um passed some of the lies that have been told and and I'm not going to repeat everything that Rene GL has said um and that um other people have said but using terms like genocide using terms like aarth when it is 100% untrue when we hear the term free Palestine what does that mean to us that means that they would like to genocide us and when we stand up against some of these rallies that we had and we know that these are words that are going to be used that cuts us to the quick that is anti-Semitism and you we go to these rallies the Jews will go to these rallies and they'll stand and they'll you know nicely sing a song we stand for the the the um the the hostages and people have come by and screams and sensitive things and Insanity like ridiculous things at us and out of hate why does there have to be hate on October 7th I woke up and I heard of some of the most atrocious things and I too was in Israel and I saw the Nova Expo and I saw the tents that were ripped and I saw the shoes like you were looking at a holocaust museum you cannot imagine and October 7th when we heard about the horrors of what they did the raping of the women cutting off their breasts and and raping them while they were doing that burn babies in front of their mothers I won't go into even worse things I knew that I knew Israel was going to have to react and I knew that people were going to immediately once Israel reacts start screaming anti-israel I did not expect it to happen on October 7th imagine just imagine for a moment if the Palestinians and the rest of the world stood by and said this is not acceptable this is not the way that we want to move forward we do not agree with the atrocities that they've done the people in those towns were the most left-wing people who would take children from palestin from Gaza and bring them to doctors these were the people that were killed and for people to stand by Hamas and tell us do not destroy Hamas because that's what the goal is and to take the hostages out there are still 150 hostages that are in Israel right now one of them fear boss one years old he turned one years old in Gaza there are no Jews in Gaza except now for the hostages and Israelis free Palestine from home from home in the West Bank it's the PA that's in charge in Gaza since 2006 there hasn't been a Jew they were given Gaza and given businesses and they destroyed them and when we hear you saying these words free Palestine that is anti anti-Semitism to us Zionism is semitism Right anti-Semitism was created for the Jews it was and I heard people saying I'm a Semite too no this was a word that was created specifically for the Jews and you don't get to decide what anti-Semitism is we do and respectfully Mr Rutherford and Miss govern Michael if I told you what I should call you as a a person of color you would say no you don't get to choose that people do not get to choose what our terms are these are our terms and when you say things that are hateful that is anti-Semitism and so I implore you please to adopt the ah definition of I I will be finished please adopt it because it it's it it the the hate that comes at us without people even realizing the hatred that is coming out of their mouths that is the reason that we need to adopt this thank you Mo click please state your name and address for the record it's mosa Glick uh West Orange New Jersey are you able to hear me yes please continue great thank you appreciate everyone's time so what I think people are are are mixing up here tremendously is not the geopolitics of what happened in the horrific attack by Hamas brutal murder rape and any inoc any democracy with Israel being the only democracy in the world has to defend itself Hamas told has told Israel that they're going to do this again and again again so forget all that right if you want to argue that somehow uh Israel is not justified that's not what that we're discussing tonight we are not and and Bill as we've discussed and I've had these discussions with everybody we're not going to solve um the crisis uh the attacks that's happened in Israel and Israel's moral obligation to defend its citizens do we was interesting to me the people that voted that discussed against this resolution not one of them said and uh I I feel horrible for these poor these women beautiful 18 19 year old women that are held hostage in Israel they are brutalized not one has said a word about that so I want to start off by saying I feel horrendous for any loss of life whether that's Jew or gazan but the blame for that gazan death does not fall on Israel's shoulders that falls on the corrupt terrorist organization of Hamas so but I want to put all of that aside because that's really not what the irhr resolution is about it really is words matter all right and am I allowed to go into a crowded movie theater and yell fire am I allowed to go over to somebody and uh threaten their life right so words actually matter and when people use the words into that's that that's another word for armed res armed attacks on Jews and this is not some theoretical Alisa fow a resident a teenager in West orang New Jersey living her life was on a bus in Gaza not bothering anybody and in inap a Hamas terrorist blew up and murdered her in West AR from West Orange New Jersey these are not these crazy ideas when people mention the word genocide right to to have a a a even there's a Jewish word called hav to even have a thought that the Jewish people are committing genocide it's it's nonsense but for it's a delegitimization of Jewish people and the fact that the US state department has adopted the IHC res Highland Park New Jersey Livingston borrow of wood woodcliffe Lake Clinton New Jersey Westfield the Scotch Plains Fanwood I can go on and on and on there's ton without any without any even questions about it so the question is the the Jew and and I think we can all agree on this uh I I had heard an African-American gentleman earlier talk about he had listed out a number of um attacks on on African-Americans through history you know the Jews have been attacked for millennium they have been attacked for Millennia and the Jew has always been the canary in the coal mine of the world right so when uh when black lives matter movement came up we marched with our black Liv brothers and sisters because they were under attack and therefore there was every town every city every Community had made a resolution in support of black Liv matter and we support that now is the time for the town to recognize as uh the lovely Renee Glick had mentioned earlier uh there the the number of attacks that are on Jew on Jew it's it's astronomical it's not even close to any other minority so when the Black lives were under attack we supported we came together and said you're under attack we support you our brothers and sisters and and the the idea the argument that some of the previous callers had made to say that somehow we're we're regressing the rights of our Palestinian our gazi and our Palestinian neighbors we support if somebody would put out words kill all Muslims I would be against that as well well but there are code words and where people are saying those words kill all Jews from The River To The Sea that's thank you when you hear the words from the river to the Sea bill you and I have talked about this there's no other way to interpret that it's the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea there are 7 million Jews in the between those borders and when people call for that so I implore the council this is the time to stand to the most targeted group we have always been the canary and the coal mine you look at first it comes the words first comes the speech you look at Nazi Germany for year the the violence didn't come against the Jews first first it was all the hate speech and if we don't stand up as a Township and say that we have to pass this resolution so there's and and what the previous college said we know what anti-Semitism just like an African-American dictates how how they want to be respected and how they want to be called same way the Jewish person has that same right so I implore you forget the it's not about the fight in Israel it's a fact that there is a targeted minority called the Jewish people with a large pres in this town that feels unsafe and it is not stopping the Muslims or anybody else I'm against all ha I did read the resolution the resolution calls for hate against all people so I implore you to please pass this resolution thank you for your time Irv schwarzen bomb welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record IR Schwarz bam West AR as a longtime resident of West Orange I implore you to vote in favor of the resolution 39-24 regarding anti-Semitism the resolution denounces all hate most importantly the resolution clearly defines anti-Semitism which would impact what the township of West Orange would consider hate speech we are a diverse and welcoming Community but must draw the line and not tolerate anti-Semitism thank you Nicole Bell welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record Nicole you're M you're muted please unmute yourself state your name and address for the record hi I'm Nicole Bell I'm on almost lifetime resident of West Orange and I almost dropped after councilman Rutherford um asked for um can you hear me yes please continue yeah I almost dropped after councilman RF asked for not repeating the the the um the comments previously until one person till the last few people spoke because I don't I think the problem that we're having is exactly what the last what some of the last people said one person talked about how um we can't take we just want to take out homas and no one is feeling for the Jewish people who have been hostages and the beginning of my speech was all about that about how exactly we feel for the people who have been taken hostage and how it's an atrocity that that has happened that is absolutely how all of us feel and if anyone does not then clearly there is a problem the problem that I am having with this particular resolution is exactly that that it is limited to certain words that a certain group of people has defined as hate speech against them and that's wonderful and whatever but it limits speech period I have lived in this town since I was a child and when I grew up here it was not the wonderful Melting Pot that we see now throughout my life we have been my people have been harassed my father including my father who's a police officer was harassed often and in many different ways overtly and covertly here in this town as a child a child I was verbally assaulted Often by ignorant elementary school children who freely use racial slurs to address me I have not seen a resolution censoring any of those words I definitely definitely definitely by full stop support every one of my Jewish neighbors here across the world everyone deserves to feel safe we are in a democracy and censoring hate speech I mean censoring hate speech is one thing but censoring speech that can be manipulated and misconstrued and abused as hate and left for interpretation is the problem that is the problem I'm very proud of the diversity in this town we have people of all nationalities faiths living working worshiping together that's wonderful and we should be a model for the rest of the world the resolution negates all of that it is dangerous and divisive and it needs to be scrapped in my opinion but at least Rewritten to recognize that there are many different groups living here whose lives are threatened daily by ignorance and hate some many of whom spoke tonight to respond to some of the earlier speakers as the black woman I'm struggling not to be offended by some of your comments because I most definitely know about historic oppression and about living in threat of Perpetual hate and violence not just words and gestures but institutional oppression and real unprovoked violence my people have learned to live unsafe not just in the streets or in our houses of worship in our grocery stores in our cars in our home sleeping peacefully in our beds no one not Jewish people not Arab people not Muslim people not black people none of us should feel unsafe and that's what we should be fighting for here a resolution that makes everyone feel safe in this town democracy love Humanity freedom is should be extended to everyone not just the select few and I'm I'm sorry I implore the rest of the council to follow the models set by councilwoman Rutherford and councilwoman gabber Michael to do what's right regardless of the potential ramifications politically reject resolution 3924 and rewrite it include everyone and make sure that it does not if we're going to talk about beleving hate speech Let's talk about all lives matter that to me is a racist speech shall we also say that that's not something that we should use I don't think so we need to be very careful about what we include and make sure that it's not that can be abused by people who are radical on either side using this conflict to uh has become an opportunity for hate-filled individuals on both sides to advance their agendas and I urge Town Council not to allow itself to used by either side it is unacceptable for anyone to use what's happening in Gaza as an opportunity to Target the Jewish community and escalate anti-Semitism and it's equally unacceptable for anyone to use it to as an opportunity to flam fan the Flames of Islam phobia and blame other Muslim Muslims in general for the act of a few I ask that we please do not ratify this resolution tonight thank you Andrea's iPad welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record hi my name is Andrea beer I live in West Orange and um I am a Jewish resident of West Orange for 38 and a half years I ask that you approve the I anti resolution so our Council can ensure the safety of Jewish residents P should not be welcom here in West Orange um I just returned from Israel and I um was able to go to the Nova Festival where youth was celebrating life and music and went to a kbut near the Gaza border uh residents who took care of the gazin and took them to doctor appointments and thought they were friends and uh so are the burned homes um incinerated homes actually um and we know what happened on October 7th because Kamas videoed what they did we know about the brutality of the rapings and the beheadings and the and the um and the and the mutilations and the hostages that were taken and now let's come to West Orange I went to Verona Park and being um having people um that were Pro Palestinian yelling at us when we were singing from The River To The Sea they were yelling at us that's a rally crying for genocide against Jews and I'm a Jew and I feel that when I go to synagogue I should not have to worry I have to worry that people are yelling out of their windows at me because I could clearly see you know whether you know my husband's wearing a keot or I am dressed in a dress for and walking on Sabbath I should be just as safe in my own town Israel has a right to defend itself after the Kamas and um attacks on October 7 where all this anti-Semitism came from on October 8th I just don't get it we never realized this was like this in this town of West Orange and I have to say that when we were under attack United States September 11th and September 12th we didn't care what anyone said we protected ourselves but I just want to say that as far as our community we are a diverse Community by ant but anti-Semitism and Hate hate has no right in this community and when you tell me that Palestinians have a right to voice what they want to say at a rally that rally was not peaceful on their side we were seen they were not and the West Orange Police Department and the Verona Police Department and the sheriff's department were all there and they can tell you how peaceful we were okay so I would just like to reiterate that Jew need to feel comfortable in this community we pay the same taxes we are we're a peaceful group we have there's not any record since October 7th of any violence from the Jewish community and I would just like to know that this resolution will be pass and that you will stand with your Jewish brother and sisters thank you Rabbi zler welcome to the meeting please state your name name and address for the record Ellie Ellie wickler um West Orange I just want to say first of all that we all live here and we all need to live here and we all need to live here peacefully and I support Free Speech but I do not support hate speech and the difference between free speech and hate speech is what you say in your words as was mentioned before words matter tonight is about having a moral compass that which was said before so much of which was historically Incorrect and disingenuous and the that which so many people spewed tonight in the language I think as a resident of West Orange I'm sort of embarrassed of is is the reason why we need a resolution because it's not okay aside from the fact I have no idea why our rules in the town allow for people from other towns to come in and stir up the pot in our family and our community we all live here we all love this place we need to live here peacefully together and that means that we all need to be protected and respected not to rewrite history not to slander there were quite a few people who spoke about 23,000 Palestinians who were killed and did not even mention a word about the atrocities that started everything in October 7th to look at how many 23 Arab states in the world and probably less than a 100 Jews live in almost 22 out of 23 of them the Jewish people are the indigenous people to the land of Israel we have the artifacts to prove it we have the archaeological findings to prove it don't tell us that we're not the Jewish people in our community here in West Orange we are people of Peace we're a people of love we just want to be protected like everyone else we just want to practice our religion be able to walk to synagogue without being screamed at free Palestine or ceasefire children coming over to me on the Sabbath and telling me people rolled down their Windows honked at them and screamed at them it shouldn't happen to anyone and we need to ensure as the adults to protect the children and the future of our Community you're all right there's too much of the geopolitics that's been spent here in West Orange and it shouldn't be let's move on from here let's move on and make sure that everyone could live together that we all take a breather that we all relax that we're all able to look at each other and move on with our lives and take care of the Township's business anti-Semitism shouldn't exist in West Orange anti- anything shouldn't exist in West Orange we should all be here to live as a community of people who want to be able to respect each other and to continue to thrive As Americans who are proud of the nation that we belong to and proud of the community that we are thank you Abby Gman welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record hi my name is Gabby Guzman and I'm from West Orange please continue I'm here um to ask the West Orange Council to vote no on the anti-Semitism resolution resolution 3924 um many of the people on this call um that have called to support this uh resolution have said that only Jews can Define what anti-Semitism is because it's an experience and term that is created by Jews I want to ask does this logic extend to Palestinians can they be the authority and experts on words phrases used and coined by them such as anti father free Palestine and from The River To The Sea zionists on the call are asking us to accept their interpretation of these terms but are not considering what these terms mean and how they have been used to the Palestinians that have coined and us these terms so I'm just asking uh if you're going to use that logic extend it also to Palestinians what does anti uh what does antia mean an Arabic Uprising um and yes I also want to talk about how somehow some on this call have said that there have been instances of hate speech and hate symbols targeting Jews because of Israel's po uh because of Israel's policy and that that is anti-Semitism and I agree I agree that that is anti-Semitism right I agree that Jews um should not Jews around the diaspora uh even Israeli Jews uh should not be targeted because of Israel's policy um and that this is anti-Semitism because we shouldn't equate Jews with Israel's policies however in this resolution it equates Jews with Israel's policies that's what it does right which is anti-Semitism and this is why I am against this resolution I'm asking this Council to vote against this resolution because equating Jews with Israel is anti-Semitism as many of the people in this call have said and I'm going to talk about the specific point in the resolution that does this uh it says denying the Jew this is quote denying the jewi je people their right to self-determination by claiming that the existence of state of Israel is racist Endeavor and then there's another one that says uh a dry comparisons of contemporary Israel policy to that of the Nazis what do these two statements say essentially what is the essence of these two statements right it's essentially saying that if you critique Israel as a racist Endeavor as a racist state if you critique their policies right in a certain way then that is anti-Semitism tell me how does that make sense if someone just sat on this call and explained a Jewish person saying that uh equating Israeli policies with all of Jews is anti-Semitism and this is what this resolution does right so at least at the very least you need to take away those two diff uh those two points uh or or else you're actually promoting anti-Semitism um all right it should never be considered anti-Semitism to uh to call Israel State uh racist and I'm going to talk about why right I'm going to talk about a term called apite aparte is a term that originated from the South African government systemic oppression of black residents a crime against humanity under international law at its core it refers to policies intended to elevate one group over another with the goal of maintaining the dominant group's hedge of money Elevate one racial group over another what does that sound like that sounds like racism right in 20021 the human rights was put a report reporting that the Israeli government system is systematic oppression of Palestinians and inhumane acts in 2022 Amnesty International came to a similar right conclusion right um and uh Michael link the UN special rapor of of human rights in occup Palestinian territory stated Israeli government used a deeply discriminatory dual legal and political system which privileges Jewish is uh Israeli Jewish settlers while disadvantaging Palestinian residents in these areas also Israeli themselves have said this as well former attorney Attorney General of Israel it is with great sadness I must also conclude that my country has Su to such political and moral deaths that it is a now an A Party regime thank you Rachel Klein welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record Rachel Klein how drive please continue um so I'd like to first uh talk about a renewal of uh mr's contract um I think many hours ago uh it was mentioned by Joyce Ruden and I'm I kind of second her sentiments um especially we've dealt with him a little bit um in trying to save the 120 acre Forest um specifically he seems to have a bit of an interest in this development going through the example I'll give is he showed pictures at a meeting at the Wilshire Grand of a garbage strewn about by teenagers from Verona and West Orange claiming that that's a reason that we should knock down a lot of the woods because the woods is filled with trash but interestingly he neglected to show that piles and piles of construction debris left behind by this same developer who wants to continue developing the land that um that and the fact that he's also working for the developer and neglected to state that when he gave the presentation on the walshire ground we felt to be a bit um just inappropriate he should have been able to give the this the speech but he should have told us exactly who he was prior to going ahead with it so I would like the town to consider um looking elsewhere instead of just automatically renewing Mr defo and associates also I second what uh Joyce and um I believe Sally said about a town planner we definitely should look to employ a town planner and not just continue Contracting the work out I think um it the the endless developments in town would definitely be under review if we had a town planner um and it's been 14 years since we've had a town planner and in the last 14 years and development has just boomed without any consideration for the effect it was it's going to have on the town down the line now briefly on the um anti-Semitism resolution I believe you should adopt it um I find um one statement really um sat with me it really offended me um that we have people in town who believe that that because they appear to be Arab therefore they are a Target well we have brown and black Jew in West Orange so I really don't understand their logic and why that would be a reason not to adopt an anti-Semitism resolution if the Muslims in the community want to adopt an anti-muslim resolution draft it propose it we will not call in and say it should not be adopted if the black community feels that way same thing we are not talking about the other communities because we cannot speak for them we are speaking for ourselves as the Jews of West Orange as someone who grew up here who lives in Alisa F's house a Jew murdered by islamist terrorists this is ridiculous to listen to people talking about how we should be putting forward other people's initiatives Put It Forward yourself I will personally not call in against it and lastly I need to just say when our tax dollars go to Israel I really I really am tired of the these lacks lack of facts being spewed Israel gets our tax dollars then Israel has to purchase back from America weapons for their defense system only they are not purchasing Munitions they are not purchasing bullets they are not purchasing bombs they are purchasing very expensive Munitions for the Iron Dome and that is why it's ridiculous this conversation about American tax dollars um I don't want to repeat anything else anyone else has said so I will uh leave it at that uh thank you very much and congratulations uh councilman arford good night Caryl welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the record Cheryl Monk and I'm a resident of West Orange I'm asking the C the council to approve resolution 3924 a resolution that speaks out against calling for aiding or just justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion anti-Semitism is real and should be addressed by our local government I recognize emotions are high so I think it's helpful to reiterate what this resolution does and does not do this resolution does seek to condemn anti-Semitism this resolution does not mean the town is condoning hatred or discrimin against any other group the resolution does seek to curb harassment on the basis of actual or perceived Jewish origin ancestry ethnicity identity affiliation or faith which is a persistent pervasive and disturbing problem in West Orange as the resolution States this resolution does not seek to curb Free Speech it seeks to confront and denounce anti-semitism discrimination racism hate and violence incidents of which have escalated since October 7th likewise passage of this resolution does not mean similar resolutions condemning islamophobia anti-arab racism hatred against African-Americans or other forms of hatred should not be passed these types of resolutions can be drafted proposed and passed as well the town council's role is not to adjudicate what's happening in Gaza this resolution is about decrying anti-Semitism that's happening here in West Orange and it is about taking a stand as other neighboring towns have it is about saying anti-Semitism is not okay and we will not tolerate it here I ask that you approve this resolution denouncing anti-Semitism thank you R Yanni glot welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the record thank you uh it's Rabbi y glat I live in Orange and I believe I was mentioned in passing uh previously in the meeting I was that Rabbi who was a victim of anti-Semitism at the school board meeting um just because I was working an Israel flag and said I was a rabbi before I even had a chance to say anything else I was pretty viciously heckled I've been called a kitee before I've been called a Jew bastard before but what I heard from the crowd at the West Orange High School was worse than anything I ever experienced as a Jew now since that school board meeting I've been having conversations with many local religious leaders uh with local Imam humanist uh reverends uh with city council leaders council president Rutherford you might recall we met a few weeks ago and I have a meeting with students former and current from West Orange High School and I can tell you that anti-Semitism 100% exists in West Orange now in some cases it's benign in others it's unfortunately fully vitriolic I've seen firsthand where the seeds of anti-Semitism have been planted and are slowly being developed by misinformation across social media misguided peers and some local Educators indeed one your high school Ed Educators who is a kind man had no idea who manakan Bean was but is spreading false ideologies about Israel this is deeply distressing as this educator is highly influential to the students and yet has no idea who one of the most successful and significant Jewish Arab peacemakers of all times is and I spoke with some of your former students and current students who tell me that they're not anti-jewish they're just anti-zionists or they're anti-israel but they have little to zero understanding of not only the overall history of the land but also of its importance in the role of Judaism the word Zionism it's only 130 years old and so many people who spoke tonight talked to us about us after there Zionist Zionist Zionist I I'm an I'm I'm a Jew and Judaism existed for 3,000 years before the word Zionist was ever created our religion has been established by our text by the tanak what we call the Old Testament and by our prayers our services the fact is that 90% of the Old Testament either takes place in the Land We Now call Israel or is about the Jewish people returning to the land of Israel every service that you would go to in West Orange or pretty much anywhere else whether it's a Orthodox reformed conservative hasic service every single service every single day mentions Israel repeatedly in those Services the idea of this land being our Eternal Homeland is embedded in Jewish history and in the DNA of most Jews I wouldn't know how to be truly Jewish without the idea of Israel but the facts about our religion are not known to not only your students but to many of the adults in West Orange and to I think many of the people who who spoke tonight instead they wrongfully see the Jews of Israel as colon colonizers usurpers even terrorists when in reality the vast majority of Jews in Israel and in the world simply want to live in peace I ask you to ensure that your students are properly educated on these matters and that we have more conversations with adults as well to quell the spread of anti-Semitism that is in fact slowly but surely pervading the minds of our residents and especially our youth more peaceful conversations need to be had more dialogues leading to peace need to occur and a complete well-rounded education has to happen for us to truly achieve a dialogue of Peace so there was a speaker earlier I think her name was NOA who said she's getting witch hunted which is terrible and should not happen council president if you could connect me with her I would love to sit down and to anybody else who is feeling that there's this is a one-sided and that Israel is has no Zionist and we have no say let's sit down let's have a peace chat I hope we could achieve these goals it was 675 years ago today that all the Jews of Basil Switzerland were burned to death all the adults because the local community turned on them even though the pope told them not to now that's an extreme example but today is that anniversary January 9th I would hate to see something even close 1600th of the Jews that died there ever happened in West Orange but history has showed us that things like this repeatedly happen to Jews across the world and we can avoid that if we just have more dialogues and try to learn your time is up thank you uh Mr Fagan so um I want to thank Rabbi Yoni I think uh the spirit of his comments um are helpful and needed um it is obvious that this resolution has stirred up significant and intense um reactions in West Orange um I am I recognize that we have to have free speech I recognize what our role as council members are um to listen to the community and understand what those feelings are uh as I've said to multiple count uh Council colleagues uh today and other days you know we've been uh and I applaud my colleagues because each of us have been having uh our own conversations with various parts of the community uh so I applaud that I think that is what's needed um and we have heard and understand where West Orange is on this issue and it is obvious that there is not agreement um and I I think that makes it very difficult for us to do our jobs it makes it difficult for us to even get through public comment um and as much as it pains me to do this I think we have now after three hours and approximately 40 public commenters um with I think the exception of maybe five um all of them have been on resolution 39-24 so we do understand that much more work needs to be done to understand the history in the culture of U our Jewish neighbors and friends or Palestinian or Muslim neighbors and friends um and this issue in particular but this is not the Forum to do it um and I and I I want to ask the public commenters for our sakes the opportunity to kind of begin the healing process which I am intent on doing I think my colleagues um are willing to help in that regard I think the administration recognizes that this work is needed so for the sake of being able to get through the rest of this meeting if you are commenting on 39-24 please send in your comments via email to council atwest orange.org um I'm I I am loathed to cut off public comment I don't think that is the role of government even if it takes us till 2 in the morning but I also understand that what we're doing in this moment is not the healing process and I think that's where we need to get to so please if you're commenting on 39-24 the anti-Semitism resolution um that is on the agenda tonight please email your comments to us and I will pledge to respond to each one of those comments individually I will not send you a form letter I will read your message I will respond I will do that and I'm s sure my colleagues will uh respond to some of them as well and and just so you know we've got thousands of emails on this issue in our inbox right now um so please if you're here for public comment and you want to comment on 39-24 please submit those comments via email the email address is on the screen now and if you're going to comment on something else uh that's on the agenda please uh feel free to do so um so that we can get to doing the business that you all elected us to do um and it's now after 10 o'clock and we haven't even started so please um I I I make that request and I hope that you trust me enough and trust my intentions enough and I've met with many of you um over the last several weeks um I think we have an understanding of where we're coming from and how we're trying to approach addressing this issue please for the sake of being able to get through the rest of the agenda email those comments only continue comments if they are on uh an item other than 39-24 um thank you council president I don't agree and would like to make a motion to let people continue to talk about this issue this is an important conversation to have and this vote is being taken tonight and I don't I think this conversation is very important I second that all right let's take vote so the vote is so the vote is to to stop public comment right now no the vote is to continue so I appreciate your comments and and The Plea to the community and respectfully I've sat here many meetings when uh my the prior council president um was was you know was pretty much um I have to say dismissed for for for that same kind of plea I I think the way the handle is I I appreciate your your um uh advocating for this to the public and yes for the sake of time and for healing I totally agree but I I think if you want to send an email send an email and if you want to still speak they should be able to speak but yes please be mindful of the time well that that's exactly what I said let me be very clear I did not close public comment I asked people to voluntarily send in their comments on 39-24 and I think that approach that's the best approach that I could come up with it's already 109 um at some point we have to actually do the work I agree um so the request that I made was to have public commenters self- select whether or not they would continue either verbally or in writing um now the councilwoman has a motion to open to keep public comment open I think that motion is wholly inappropriate because there is no motion to close public comment but if you want to take a vote if you there's something that you wanna can I say something council president you're not public comment like you said you simply asked if residents would send an email if they don't want to they can keep their hand up and still speak we're not public comments isn't being closed he's just made a suggestion they don't if they still want to speak about it they can there 22 hands up right now and there were 27 when I started listen to all 22 people just we just going to go another two hours till midnight and then do business he's not closing public comments Council uhom Scarpa and councilwoman castelino it's simply suggestion and if they want choose to speak they can still speak there's no need to take a vote he simply made a suggestion that's it and I hope we are all taking notice of how divisive this particular issue has been been um we certainly need more work whatever is done tonight is not going to solve the problem like the problem is much deeper and it's obvious the problem is much deeper by the the intensity of the comments and this resolution will be able to address so um councilwoman scarper what was your motion I just want to make sure that anyone who would like to speak on the resolution on anti-Semitism has the opportunity to voice their opinion so is there something wrong with asking email people to email the the the comments in they can email if they like but I want them to be able to speak tonight if they choose right so we're not in disagreement Mr uh Fagan um please continue and again I make the same plea if you if you are commenting on 3924 and are willing please email to council at West orange.org what those comments are um if you're commenting on something else we certainly do encourage you to continue uh with your public comment and if you choose not to email you have that right as well Mr Fagan is back in your hand thank you council president Susie's iPhone uh please State your full name and address for the record I'm on my council meeting I can't talk okay hi can you hear me uh yes okay uh my name is Susie and um if it's okay I'd like to refrain from giving my information as well in fear of um my information being out there um I would like to start with um saying that the resolution 3924 I absolutely think that it should be approved tonight um as a Jewish person American Israeli Jew who has family in Israel um I know what anti-Semitism is what it looks like and it's it's for us to be able to tell you what anti-Semitism looks like we would never come on and tell people what their racism looks like for their nationality and it's appalling to really hear people tell us that we shouldn't feel the way we feel we would never do that to any other race we would always stand up for other people who are being hated on or discriminated against and we'd hope that people would stand with us now too um one of the things I'd like to bring up that wasn't brought up was uh what was and and it all does tie into the resolution um was the things that being said at the West Orange High School walkout um quotes of they fear you keep doing what you're doing we will not let them um we will let them know exactly who lives in this town in this region they're trying to intimidate us here we know what type of region this is did it stop you what are they implying what type of region is this this is discrimination um obviously they said from The River To The Sea Palestine will be free we've spoken about that and how we feel and and these are words that are straight out of hamas's mouth while they're murdering Jews they're yelling inata from the river to the sea is their slogans so yes when people are going to say that to us that's how that's what we hear is we want to murder you because that's what the terrorists are saying whether it's Hamas whether it'sah the Islamic Jihad we have a lot of people who want to murder us so we will tell you and and the last quote which which to me is is Terrorism uh in order for us to end the occupation in Palestine we must end the occupation in America these are things that are being said to high school students and everybody cheered on so um that was that that put a lot of fear into me and until this day um this resolution allows for criticism of is of Israel I mean Jews of all you know we all have our opinions on Israel and and that's what a democracy looks like and absolutely anybody can have an opinion in Israel but we have to distinguish between criticism and attacks on Israel that are in actuality anti-Semitism in Disguise that's what we're trying to do here because we're seeing time and time again the words and and we hear we heard it here tonight from people speaking um one of the things that I've I've heard tonight was Zion has Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism Zionism has everything to do with Judaism that's our our religion we we it's Judaism it's Judea we're from Israel we're from Judea and so um I don't know you know how they could say something like that and basically erase our history it's it's in our Bible it's in archaeology it's in our DNA you're erasing our history okay and saying that Zionism was origin ated by European atheists that's racist that's discriminatory that is absolutely not true and to say that all Jews are from Europe and all white is not true I am a middle eastern Jew my parents and my grandparents had to flee the Arab lands of Lebanon and Morocco because of anti-Semitism they were persecuted they were discriminated against I I I understand Arabic I can I can hear and I can understand when what they're saying and I I feel like that the again saying that all Jews are white is wrong we have people of color living in Israel right now people of color that have died in the IDF and we also have Muslims fighting in the IDF Muslims living in Israel this is not a war against Muslims Muslims living in Israel many of which are very happy living there and are fighting with us against these terrorists because the terrorists would kill them too and they did kill them on October s seven time is up thank you thank you Rachel Hershey I'm sorry Amy gallon uh please state your name and address for the record Amy gallon West Orange New Jersey for uh for your time this resolution or at least my participation in uh wanting to see this through was supposed to unify not divide it's still supposed to unify not divide this is not uh a statement on the Israel Palestine uh conflict which is not even an Israel Palestine conflict it is an Israel Hamas conflict in Israel Terror uh conflict and cannot be said any more times that the issues are not it's not even a Jews Muslim it is specifically um terrorism the reason that I feel so strongly that this resolution be adopted in an even stronger form than it's actually presented meaning this formal adoption is on June 3rd of 2021 a statement was issued by West Orange whereby where at the time um Council current council president Bill Rutherford and councilwoman Michelle castelino current mayor Susan McCartney was councilwoman at the time and councilwoman Tammy Williams was all on it and you all signed it with with mayor paresi and uh and councilwoman at the time Cindy m brown the saddest part is that I don't even remember what anti-semitic incident it was that triggered such a statement because there have been so many it had to have been pretty big to finally get this the such a statement and it was a fabulous statement but it was a statement and it was only on Facebook promise of a proclamation what this resolution is supposed to be is a codification of what anti-Semitism is because you can't call out that which you are not willing to Define and we are the ones who are defining it for you because we are the ones who have that right the foremost and and I can you you condemn anti-Semitism in all its forms without exception you even used the statement okay um of um that started to Define anti-Semitism as any words and actions which blame Jews as a people or a group for be uh being generally responsible for real or perceived ills in society of the world this is the you use this US state Department's definition which is the IH definition because it was adopted in 2016 it was been had been used even earlier than that the only thing that they didn't do is go into the examples that further indicate what they are and the issue at hand now unfortunately this should have been brought up long ago but now that it's being done after 107 well why there's a dramatic rise in anti-Semitism here in West Orange alone here in West in Essex County alone and New Jersey and where my daughter goes to college on Columbia University campus which is a freaking nightmare and in New York yor and everywhere all over the world where Jews are now fleeing Europe because it is simply unsafe to be a Jew where do they go the only Safe Haven in the world outside perhaps the United States but that's increasingly scary now and that is Israel because that is the Jewish homeland that is what Zionism is it is simply the right of the Jewish people to self-determination and nationhood as it means for Liberation and it is a safe haven for Jewish people after thousands upon thousands of years of persecution oppression actual genocide and actual ethnic cleansing Israel is a part of our identity as the rabbis have said I do not want it to speak on their behalf I'm trying to turn off my phone sorry okay they've already said what they have to say but anti-Semitism is denying the right of Jews to exist collectively as Jews with the same rights as everyone else it takes different forms it is a cancer it mutates back in the Middle Ages it was it was because we were different our religion we prayed differently in the early 19th and 20th Century get this it was because of what our race and now here we are today it is hate for the existence of Israel it mutates and while somebody wanted to mention the notion of um oh it's only on did I just have the one minute warning no 30 seconds 30 seconds only on the right is that this horseshoe theory of where the far right and the far left meet okay and where do they meet in their fight of anti-Semitism it oh and in their belief in anti-Semitism and what the thing is is that people just don't want to be called anti-semitic you know what the fact is if you don't want to be we're telling you how not to be it starts with the Jews it never ends there and if it stays hidden is up thank you Rachel Hershey sorry for any confusion uh it's your turn to talk Rachel Hershey can you hear us Rachel Hershey please unmute yourself it's your turn to talk last call Rachel her moving on Orin welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record hi thank you uh my name is Oren Melo Sunnyside Road um I'll keep it brief it's also about resolution 3924 um I grew up in West Orange um I don't think really there's anything that could be done especially in a resolution that would have to do with actual effect on anti-Semitism I think any Jun know is like that just something you deal with as a person I think as far as the res resolution itself the same people that uh wanted to raise the Palestinian flag are the same people who wanted to pull down the Israeli flag and to say that it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism when you want to critique Israel is a little bit hypocritical when you want to take down a flag of the Jews in the town but raise a flag of a place whose government is literally terrorist organization uh so I just wanted to highlight that because I don't think anybody said that and uh I also wanted to call out uh that there's a councilwoman here who's nodding along to everyone who said that Israel is a white colonialist oppression apartheid state uh and I would just encourage uh her to educate herself on the history and thank you and have a good night Rachel Hershey I see your hand just raised if you can hear please uh state your name and address for the record moving on shareif maelle Welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record shareif you're muted unmute yourself last call shareif moving on TZ R welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record good evening Toro West Orange resident um thank you all for hearing the community I know that it's it's stough to stay up late um it's actually 6:00 a.m. or I am I've been on for a couple hours as well um so this town ordinance uh while it's a town ordinance it's a West orang ordinance it is influenced by a global conflict right uh we certainly probably wouldn't be having this conversation if this was not for this conflict and its divisive impact that has been felt in our local communities um so I ask that everyone that's listening um have an open mind and heart as I share my personal experience here uh so I am an immigrant I've been living in the US for about 25 years um so have no stake in the game so to speak right on this conflict didn't even know what it was about uh when it happened on October 7th and have to do research I have never experienced anything like this on a personal professional level never um the loss of innocent lives and families being separated and Hell hostage is unimaginable especially as a parent and I feel for all lives that have been impacted after the um October 7th attack as an outsider right these are my observations This Is What It Feels uh for someone who's actually having the cognitive space to actually understand this conflict there was no space for civil dialogue in fact freedom of speech wasn't so free it comes at a cost a cost of being labed being cancelled being censored and being attacked for the first time ever I found my freedom of speech limited and I'm not alone in that and that is a problem because I consider myself a community Builder and I value my ability to engage in civil discourse if I choose to right it takes immense courage and risk calculation to have any dial on this topic for those whose moral compass and Consciousness won't allow them to stand by the town stood took a stand on this issue by standing with our Jewish Community there has been so far day 96 I believe no acknowledgement over the 20,000 loss of live people uh or support for our Palestinian and Muslim neighbors who also live in our community who had nothing to do with this attack on the contrary we know that the high school walkout was postponed children were being threatened to be doxed by adults and the flag rais was cancelled after approval both our Jewish and Palestinian neighbors and all of our neighbors deserve to feel safe and protected because that is West dorant a mosaic of diverse cultures and Faith with that as a backdrop I have read the proposed resolution and while it briefly mentions different traditionally persecuted groups this resolution as it stand does not protect all parties who are impacted by this conflict and makes having um those much needed dialogue to bridge our Gap and as a community and bring us closer even more difficult in addition citizens have the right to educate themselves and arrive at their own informed opinions which this resolution limits the question isn't whether our Jewish neighbors should be protected they absolutely should be protected however we should also be putting the same effort to protect our Palestinian neighbors and all of us and do it in a way that doesn't limit Free Speech the town should really prioritize initiatives to truly make everyone feel safe and protected and this resolution does not achieve that goal I'm happy to provide resources and examples of how other communities and other municipalities were able to do this while your political careers will be a blip in your life your moral compass and Consciousness will hold you accountable every minute of the day thank you council president it appears we have lost councilwoman Williams I've tried reaching out from her and could not reach her uh it looks like we've also lost Council uh Scarpa I've reached out to her as well and have not heard back um let's continue with public comment I what I said uh for those of you that don't know and I said this um to our clerk earlier I believe I said it to Mr Fagan uh may have said it to my Council colleagues because tonight is such uh the the 30 3924 is such a weighty resolution uh I am not prepared even though we have a quorum um a quorum um and it's getting late so my brain's not working well I am not prepared um and I don't think we should take take a vote on any of these things if uh all of us are not present to raise our voice um as it is now based on my understanding of where my colleagues are that are present we would not have um enough votes to pass almost any of the thing and not just 3924 but almost any of the things that are under dispute tonight and there are four or five resolutions that are that require some debate so um I am happy to continue trying to get councilwoman Williams and councilwoman Scarpa uh back on the line um but if we are not successful I think um we should we should um adjourn uh and and reconvene I mean take care of the conf conference uh the consent agenda and then uh reconvene um at a time uh as soon as possible obviously we have notice requirements and such but we can discuss that privately but get it back on as soon as possible because councilwoman Scara deserves to be heard on this and so does councilwoman Williams uh so that's that's my position uh please uh continue Mr Fagan and if we can't get them in the next 10 or 15 minutes then we will make another decision okay uh council president for clarification do you want to continue with public comment or do you want to take a short break to see if we can get council members back on no please continue with public comment and we're gonna continue trying to get them back on while public comment is continuing very good council president thanks for the clarification Ana welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record hi uh I would like to withhold my name and address just for privacy concerns um I am just wanting to speak I wasn't actually intending to speak but I want to just make a quick brief comment about resolution 3924 um I hoping that you don't vote in favor of this resolution um I take some issue with the IH uh a definition specifically the statement of um any rejecting kind of criticism towards Israel specifically the line by claiming the existence of a state of Israel uh is a racist Endeavor um throughout this meeting I've been looking and Gathering resources that we've been seeing for the past couple of years past couple of months um I am of the belief that anti-Semitism does not equal anti-zionism um there are a number of organizations Jewish voices for peace and if not now as well as a number of town members who have raised their voice as Jewish members of the community saying uh they also do not favor this resolution um just to kind of talk towards that specific point of uh the state of Israel um is a racist Endeavor and not being able to speak on that um here are a number of organizations that have called Israel an apartheid state number of which actually all of which are reputable human rights organizations Amnesty International humans Rights Watch the UN Human right Office of the High Commissioner the UN Human Rights Council 47 un experts 450 civil societies uh Civil Society groups and two Israeli human rights um NOS uh in addition 800 plus legal Scholars say that Israel are perpetuating crimes of genocide in Gaza and a case for genocide is currently being brought to the icj by South Africa um it is just my intent to say say that we want to absolutely have safety for our Jewish community members we also would like to acknowledge that of our Arab and Muslim and Palestinian community members as well and having a resolution of this I would say is a bit one-sided and conflates two different things um one which has demonstrably showed that uh they um are committing a parun and genocide I will conclude there thank you council president I have not been able to contact uh councilwoman Williams uh and I am uh advised that there are various power outages in West St um and I just want to repeat something earlier uh as far as PS e and G is concerned if you Tech if anyone can text the word out UT to 47734 to receive reports on outages or to report an outage in West Orange I'll repeat that it's the word out and it can be text to 47734 um council president with your permission I will bring in the next public speaker uh yes sir please Jane kissner welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record thank you my name is Jane I prefer State my address um for safety reasons um thank you for your time I'll try to be brief um my background i c I lived in two countries before coming to the United States uh one is Ukraine one is usbekistan uh Ukraine is a graveyard regard to 20 Jewish family members who were buried alive while their neighbors very much like our neighbors even though they may be sympathetic to the cause are very very quiet um we have witnessed Jewish people for peace being not afraid to speak for other causes I have not heard our neighbors of different races and different relig religions uh vote their uh request to pass the resolution just yet I only hear Jewish voices of people who are being afraid and concerned on this call this is very disappointing because we supported Martin Luther King marches uh BLM marches any other pro-human issue marches we were alongside with every human cause that was dear to our neighbors I urge all of our neighbors to support us as well my second place of residence was usbekistan a very highly densed Muslim country um which is uh uh which had at once a very robust Jewish Community what happened to the Jewish Community there hello is same thing that happened yes is the same thing that happened to the Jewish Community okay we're not seeing your box anywhere Mr Fagan you need to mute and I hear all okay um Mr Fagan uh please mute um Madame clerk okay please continue uh Miss J so what happened what happened to the Jewish community in usbekistan is the same thing that happened to the Jewish communities in countries like Qatar Syria Sudan Iran Morocco Algeria Saudi Arabia many many others neighbors that were not able to protect their Jews lost all their Jews and all of that was done under the watch of the United Amnesty International legal Scholars and all those people who were referred by previous um comment so for all these organizations to be cited as somebody who really cares about the Jewish cause they really don't because all of these countries lost their Jews they are highly highly antiemetic um and to address the anti- uh Zionism anti-israel and anti-Semitism uh things uh when when I hear that um that they're not related there is not a 100% relation but one thing for sure when anti-zionism starts anti-Semitism follows they go hand in hand uh another thing that I want to me mention is that Wars are not proportionate that when somebody a peaceful music festival rapes women Burns children kidnaps citizens and mutilates humans of that country the country has the right to defend itself and anyone that wants to call that country names or anyone who wants to call for ceasefire has no right to do that because the citizens innocent CI civilians were attacked and they have a right like any other country to defend itself currently there are 129 peaceful citizens many of which are women who are now being minute remaining isolated are still missing US citizens are in captivity right now we have New Jersey residents that are held hostages in Gaza right now um the war that started by a brutal attack on Israel caused a lot of turmoil that's happening today in West Orange in New Jersey in the United States we do not feel safe and um count IL president Rutherford I wanted to address one comment uh that you mentioned I don't think we are trying to solve a conflict today you said that it will be very difficult to solve the conflict we are not asking to solve the conflict we are asking to protect Jewish people this is a resolution about anti-Semitism we want to feel safe we want to feel safe in our homes and we are asking for that not to solve the conflict your time is up council president I apologize for not muting myself uh that was councilwoman Scara she had called me she said she could hear everything but she's not in the meeting she's not listed here is a panelist so she's going to try calling back in I could not get councilwoman Williams and um I just uh got a report that there are two outages on the p and G map in West Thorn so uh it's possible that they could be affected by that um thank you Mr Fagan uh do you want me to allow the next public commenter into the meeting yes please Shan Gainer welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record my name is sha Gainer address still the same 74 Reynolds uh sorry I have to uh do this Council I thought thought this would be done with but apparently it's not um I wasted a lot of time on these meetings uh wasted your time wasted a bunch of my time the only time that hasn't been wasted Mr tr's been getting paid um uh so I'm trying to have some uh truthful uh response about my pension payment Mr gross is not there tonight I I see um so if he's not there whatever I'll just say my peace doesn't matter if he's there the last time he was there he did not speak the truth I will say Mr gross said that he paid my pension and told all of you and me and everyone on the meeting that Mr Gainer has that information that is an outright lie I never received that information that is a lie um please if you can send me send me a copy um and and please uh copy the council and the mayor and um anyone else uh receipt of payment of my pension because I paid it almost a year ago this is January I believe 13 14 15 whenever I made that payment it's almost a year now still not I know it takes time with you know uh pension stuff but it's almost a year few days to be a year he did not make that payment that I know of he never gave me that information which he lied so um I'm sure as a great CFO or chief of staff whatever his title is these days uh he's a very responsible guy and uh he's smart enough to get a receipt for any kind of payment so I want to date stamp time please you know uh tag the email on the Council people who stop saying online on you know to everybody else that I've received this information which is not true I see uh Pete smdo is there and he is the assistant and I I consider a friend so maybe he could speak on that if I was ever uh paid on the pension and what date and time that happened um so I consider Pete a friend uh hopefully he can maybe maybe he doesn't have knowledge of it I'm not sure but I know John gross said that I had that information I just I I I didn't like that he said that because that was untrue um I never received that information that I was paid and it's still my pension payment reflects that I was not paid um also I don't think that voting on Tren tonight would to be back for another year would be a great idea being that we spent many many hours already with the other stuff going on and everyone's not on board tonight so if we could just push that back a bit I'll be seeing Mr trink on Friday um but I I just would think that everybody should be there for a vote such as this um and I would appreciate that so thank you for your time once again I'm sorry I got to call in you know I'm retired I want to be done with this I don't want to deal with Township of West Orange but unfortunately we're still here there's people saying things that are untrue and I would just like uh for everything to be on the up and open and you know just the truth to be spoken that's all but thank you Council I know there's a lot of stuff going on in the world that's more important than this kind of stuff but this affected my life greatly it really did I never was promoted there was there was people that got promoted making me sign apologies that one minute remaining there was no spots open people got people got promoted nobody ever promoted me when there was no spots open I died number one on a deputy chief list I know I did not get the vaccination and it is what it is but you know I didn't whatever so it is what it is I love that town I grew up in that town I I I gave 26 years of helping people in that town I had cancers I had everything from from being a firefighter so so that's all um uh thank you for your time once again P consider your friend if you don't know the answer to that it is what it is but uh you know all right that's all I got nothing else for you Larry welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the record uh Larry Ryan uh I live at a coming Circle in West Orange please continue thanks so much uh I know that we have a lot to talk about tonight and I know we've heard a lot already but I really have to spend a few minutes just sharing my thoughts um I actually as well just came back from Israel uh spending time to see what actually happened in Israel and I know that we we really need to bifurcate the conversation that is you know what happened in Israel when Hamas started on October 7th I went there specifically going to is to Bear witness of what took place at that Nova concert and I saw the poor parents standing next to the picture of their child crying and lighting candles and saying prayers because their child was killed just because they were Jewish then I went to visit the kibuts that did the exact same thing where I saw the horrors happen where they burn houses and cars and trees and and people's lives were torn apart and just because they were Jewish and Hamas started all of this I also unfortunately had the opportunity to watch the Hamas video that they took just like they did in Nazi Germany they took of the 47 minutes of a TR that people should see to see what they had done to all the people these people these poor people that they raped and and basically part killed all these atrocities to it you cannot unsee that if you see this video which I had the opportunity to see you cannot unsee this so I know we need to bifurcate what happened in there but again it's about how do we really work with being a Jewish Community other communities have actually looked at creating this this proposal this resolution to be able to be on their on their docking and other places have already done but you know I sat here tonight and I thought of something everybody tonight who said who's talking against the resolution of antisemitism made me really believe we need it more than ever because what it really says is we the anti-Semitism resolution talk specifically how we are supporting the Jewish Community how we you're supporting yes yes tomorrow you could write other resolutions for other parts of our community and who's stopping that nobody's stopping going in and basically say let's do other resolutions for other parts of our community I always say this and you've heard me say this hundred times I love living in West Orange I love living in West Orange because of the diversity of the people I I'm I'm worried when I hear people say they're afraid and they're scared why is everybody afraid and scared we all are respectful each other and we all said that tonight so I think tonight is most critical that we actually go ahead and approve this resolution ution and again I sit here tonight feeling that what I heard tonight from people saying they don't believe in the resolution makes me even feel stronger that the Jewish Community needs to be need to be supported with this anti-semitic resolution it is about this again please tomorrow do another resolution for other parts of our community go ahead and do that but tonight is our opportunity to make a statement and tonight is our opportunity to move forward also we've talked about this well I not talked about this I have volunteered this over and over and over again I want to meet with people in our community to talk about how do we how do we feel good about each other we talk about we love this community I want to sit across the table and have have a conversation with anybody that wants to have a conversation about making our community stronger between the Jewish community and all the different factors of the propile Stan and Muslim whatever the community are but it's important that we do that one minute remaining I really believe we need to have those meetings we need to and more important than anything is before we get off this call tonight we must must must vote on this resolution this is going to make a statement for ourselves and again tomorrow we can make other resolutions for other parts of our community but we can't leave tonight's call without actually saying yes we have an anti-semitic resolution approved moved on and we able to and start a new life and again please take me up on this I want to meet people to talk about how to make this the community that we always love and cherish and let's make that happen right now uh council president I was able to find councilwoman Williams but I cannot find councilwoman Scarpa um I have a phone she's on her phone yo you do you have a phone number I have a phone number that she's on she's not on her phone um but I cannot there are two calling two phone calling and neither one of them are the number that was given me I'll work on that um you um continue with public comment and I'll try and gra get get the accurate number for her thank you council president yep thank you Jason buskin welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record thank you uh Jason buskin from West Orange um thank you for uh for the time tonight I know it's been a long night and hope everyone is staying safe in this weather um I want to Echo a little bit of the and I'll try not to repeat what other people have said but I want to Echo a little bit of what both Dr Glick and Rabbi zwickler said earlier Rabbi glot that words matter and something that council president said earlier is that he wanted to make sure that the depth of the impact of this resolution is understood and I think I'm beginning to understand that or actually more be bothered by that because what I don't understand is why there is so much impact by the of by this resolution what I don't understand and someone who moved here six years ago is why is it so hard for this town to condemn anti-Semitism why is it so hard for the people in this town to say Jewish lives matter as I said I moved here about six years ago and my family we have two young boys and we walk around with yamakas on our head and we walk to our synagogue and every week when we walk to our synagogue in Pleasant Valley way I have to explain to my children why there's a police car there and why people may shout something at them because they're wearing yamaka and why there's a security guard in front of the building and why sometimes we may not feel safe Even in our own Hometown and while some people may say this is influenced by a global global conflict this is really a very local issue at its heart and that's the idea of why we can't feel safe in our own Hometown and what I don't understand in listening to the comments tonight is this what aboutism that I have to listen to from this pluralistic Community why is it so hard to say you know what you have been suffering and there's been so much going on since October 7th that maybe we you need to do something and pass something to protect you instead that there's comments and words thrown out about ethnic cleansing and genocide and Fascism and words that I think that our speakers clearly don't understand and haven't done the proper research to understand and instead we have to hear from armchair Warriors who post on Facebook but aren't walking around and hearing these comments and listening to this I don't think that the people comenting tonight really understand the state of anti-Semitism in the world and I know people have gone through the statistics and the numbers and since October 7th we've had a 337 per increase in anti-Semitism since the year before so just so you understand those numbers from October 7th through the end of the year last year there were 400 incidents of anti-Semitism that were reported this year there have been over 2,000 and if you watch the news you see it's not just people shouting things it's businesses that are being surrounded windows that are being broken reminiscent of Crystal KN which led to the Holocaust but it's also college students being trapped in libraries if you heard from the MIT College student on the steps of the capital talking about being shouted out and kicked out by her study group just for being Jewish and the things that are heard by students today on college campuses and what I don't understand is why my towns folk here my fellow neighbors are coming on and saying well we don't care about your anti-Semitism we don't care about any of this because you're not thinking about us nobody said that we won't think about you but why in this moment of our need why you can't think about us in our needs and what we're being subjected to there's been a L to talk about the high school incident and the flag raising and what's troubling is much like the people whove told us they understand the issue because on October 7th they began researching the Arab Israeli conflict and now they're now an expert but while they're on hold now they began researching and they're suddenly an expert the slogan shouted from the high school were as we've discussed from The River To The Sea and inata are meant for the annihilation of the Jewish people so the question I have for the people on this call and for our neighbors are not why are you upset about why the high school protest was first postponed but why aren't you upset that your high school students don't know any better why are you not upset that this is being taught to your students and they don't understand what they're shouting and as far as the flag raising while people can come online and Mis characterize it what the fact is is that the mayor said is that the only reason that the flag raising was canceled is because of the inflammatory speech that was used in the way that it was promoted and my question is for our neighbors is why don't you care about that why don't you care about the inflammat speech that's used as these things are are marketed why don't you care about what your students are being taught so many of the people have come on tonight have talk about building bridges and mending fences and talking to each other but what's clear from so many of the people that come on tonight is is that the Jew your Jewish neighbors are struggling right now we're seeing anti-Semitism of proportions that we have not seen in nearly 70 80 years and all we're doing is begging for a resolution and you're just coming on and saying it's no good with an agenda as if to say say it doesn't work for me because you're Jewish and that's not good enough for us and that's not fair we need your help and we need you to support this agenda and I hope that the town will support the agenda tonight thank you Dam goldfisher welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record please on mute real quickly can you hear me uh please unmute yes we can hear you you can hear me it's Susan scarpy oh councilwoman scarpy yes we can hear you Samer um please state your name and address for the record but you have to unmute yourself sir last call Sam goldfisher okay I have to move on Anna Schwarz welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record good evening my name is Anna Schwarz and I would rather not say my address I was deeply Disturbed to hear so-called anti-zionism rhetoric and completely false statements made today about Israel being an aparti State Zionism means recognizing the right of Jewish people to have a state while a very small minority maity of Jews in our community condemn Israel the vast majority do support the Democratic State and feel threatened by this rhetoric anti Zionism means calling for the annihilation of the entire state of Israel which also includes 1.6 million of Palestinian Muslims who are enjoying the same rights as all Israelis citizens Israeli Parliament currently has a total of 120 elected officials and 11 of them are Palestinian Muslims is that an upper tide State also as other speakers correctly pointed out today the majority of Israelis are in fact people of color with African or middle eastern Roots calling for the annihilation of the only Democratic state in the Middle East is not only anti-semitic it is also anti-American American author and activist igoma oluo made a great statement in her book that was published about five years ago and titled let's talk about race she said it is about race if a person of color thinks it is about race her words resonated to with me when I read the book and I took them very seriously now please let the Jewish people decide what constitutes anti-Semitism I strongly recommend approving the anti-Semitism resolution 39-24 tonight thank you Adar Weiss welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record wi Carter red in Pleasant down West Orange um which is probably a lot more than most other people have said on the call tonight especially if they're calling from somewhere 6:30 a or who knows where Maplewood um uh Bill I know you don't want me to repeat what other people have said but congratulations on your new tenure um calling in support of 3924 it it seems strange to me that something that has a very simple definition anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews which may be expressed as hatred towards Jews rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed toward Jewish or non-jewish individuals Andor their property toward Jewish Community institutions or religious facilities um it it's strange to me that there's so much debate and um hardship for people to Simply say that yes this makes sense there are 30 states that have adopted this Alabama Alaska uh among them as are Arizona Arkansas Connecticut Idaho Iowa Kansas Kentucky Maine Massachusetts Missouri Montana Nevada New Hampshire New Mexico New York oh Ohio Oklahoma Rhode Island South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont cities have adopted this La has adopted this seven out of 10 Canadian provinces have adoped I mean Canadian provinces this is something that so many parts of the world are saying this makes sense this is a declaration that makes sense this is a definition that makes sense Albania Argentina Australia Austria Belgium Bosnia Bulgaria Canada Colombia Croatia Cyprus Czech Republic Estonia Finland France Germany Greece Guatemala Hungary Israel Italy cast of Alia Lithuania Luxembourg malova the Netherlands North Macedonia I know that was the country Philippines Poland Portugal Romania Serbia Slovakia Slovenia South Korea Spain Sweden Switzerland United Kingdom the United States overall ugu these are all places that have adopted this definition this is not a contentious definition this is not something that requires hours of debate this is something that simply enables the Jewish Community to be able to say we have additional protections George Washington going all the way back to 1790 said to bigotry no sanction to persecution no assistance this is simply formalizing that here in our own municipality we've all seen we've all heard about things that have been going on locally regionally and here in West Orange uh I am a volunteer EMT I responded to calls for people of all backgrounds of all faiths uh I have also in the last few months become a volunteer security guard at my synagogue in addition to the paid uh police officer that we have there and it's scary I've got little kids and to be able to say to them uh uh it's a scary time no you can't go running around the S gu as you normally do you have to stay out of the lobby we don't know what's going to happen you have to stay with your groups you have to stay with leaders uh it's it's incredibly painful um it's a very scary time and to be able to formalize additional protections for our community is not too much for us to ask and so I thank you for listening and I encourage you to adopt this definition thank you very much Kathy welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the record good evening everyone thank you for staying up so late I appreciate you uh my name is Kathy I've been a resident of West Orange for 40 years I am a Palestinian Semite and an American I am against this resolution for its bias and racist and um I do not approve of it as a Palestinian American we live in the United States of America no other country or state should have more power than the American people do we enjoy our freedoms unfortunately these times and these days there's fear on my community on my people and uh adopting this will give an upper hand to one people and muzzle the other people and mute them from their rights this is an infringement on my first amendment I live here here I have been enjoying it until this conflict that started 1948 this conflict was not started on October 7th we have been living this plight for so many years as a summit Palestinian I do not approve of this resolution I have rights my kids have rights my grandkids have rights I should not be living in fear in in a community that I live for 40 years here I have not gotten involved in any other resolutions that was taken but this one hit real hard I am very happy for those who were able to go back to Palestine and see what happened to their family I have to see it in photos videos for I have no right of return so put that up there in order for me to be safe in my town this is also my town the town of Palestinian Muslims and Arabs and other ethnicity I respect all ethnicities and all religions and I demand the same respect for me as I am able to criticize Joe Biden and the congressmen and women and the Senators and everybody in my government I should have the right to criticize anybody else in the world this is not about favoritism As Americans we live here we have to respect and obey the laws of the United States of America and no other state or country has a right to take such a a resolution and implemented this is wrong this is one-sided this is racist this is divisive I appreciate you working hard and staying late and listen listening so please listen please do not vote Yes on this please do not do it because we matter our voices matter everybody V is voice matters in this community in this country we have been under this for 75 almost 80 years and now our voices are being heard heard and people are offended we have rights we have a right to life to live to see our kids grow and be whoever they want to be I have received some massive bad news from back home not just in Gazza in West Bank also so do not tell me you I have to submit to this resolution because it benefits one group and not the other I urge you as the politicians as you are and I urge everybody to go and look at the Palestinian plight we are indigenous of that Land look at it look it up educate yourself in our plight and then ask yourself is this right or wrong so I am definitely against Palestinian Semite of Palestine I urge you not to adapt this resolution thank you very much I see you all tired go home get rest thank thank you very much thank you I appreciate all good night uh council president I see we lost councilwoman Williams again um I I will I will allow the next speaker on and try to uh make contact with her thank you Mr Pagan Richard welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record Richard please unmute yourself Richard can you hear us yes hi um I would like to talk about The Backpack Blower so I'll wait uh you that's up to council president yeah so so fine we I'll just wait yes that's for second reading fine no problem thank you Mark spivi Welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record uh my name is uh Rabbi Mark speac I the rabbi of congregation oror in in West Orange um first of all I wanted to say um I heard you know people speak uh against the Susan McCartney our mayor uh I just want to say that she has like an impossible job and she I think she's doing a really good job um uh and not just put putting this even this issue aside she she works very hard for West Orange I think I I've had to deal with her not in this issue but in many issues and um I found that she's always open and she's always trying to help um and uh and you know as you as council members as well you know uh I know as a rabbi it's it's very difficult uh you know when you're trying to serve the public and there's a many different opinions on something so I do want to uh give her a shout out I think she's doing you know she's doing the best she can under hard situation and uh and I definitely appreciate the work that she's uh she's done and the work that everybody who serves West Orange all you all of you I I I definitely appreciate that you're here very late and that you're listening to us so I want to thank you for that um uh I just want to mention that uh that in all these issues uh when we had the black lives matter um I spoke very strongly about it on my wife we brought our kids um to to uh to various to to rallies um I actually had uh I spoke to the rabbis or the rabbis because we we had that uh as well my wife is is uh her father is africanamerican um he's actually his father played in The Negro Leagues and um and uh it it really hit home I did experience uh personally I experienced uh we experienced uh different types of hate um and so we're very sensitive you know in this in this community that we want to make sure that we all try to get along as best as we can that being said the Jewish Community has been here and in other places has been feeling a lot of different hate uh addressed to us we seen it um right by my shol where a swat sticker uh was put on the ground by us and we spend a lot of money in our synagogue towards having security um and uh trying to make sure that we could just live um when we walk down the street in Pleasant Valley Way many of us have have experienced um uh uh people screaming out things at us um and uh in fact I had one of the security guards wouldn't let me walk home alone because he felt uh because he himself heard some of the things that are sometimes directed at us um so so uh what we're looking for really is to to try to bring more dialogue I definitely agree with that I would love to have much more dialogue and just I guess some sort of recognition that uh that this hate exists uh towards us but I think that I think that it's important for all of us to uh to be able to to come together we all have to live together I don't think this conflict is going to be a short-lived conflict um and I think that this is going to go on for a while and uh and it's important for us to be able to try to come together and live in harmony uh within within West uh within West Orange um as for as for Israel um I don't think this this uh you know the you guys could do too much for what's going on in Israel I know it's it's very sensitive to us you know I have kids I have kids who live in Israel and they have to constantly run into shelters um they had to do that for many many years uh we only have one Jewish state or a small people there's a 57 Muslim State countries and there's only one Jewish one and uh this be very sensitive to it and we are very protective of it because we know that this is our Lifeline um and so that's why we'll fight for it um as much as we can uh to try to make sure that uh it's not uh you know that that's you know that's it's it's respective because we know how how tenuous it is that like you said somebody said the United Nations is there to uh you know is not there to defend the one Jewish state as it is as the all the other you know countries the 57 Muslim countries in oh the other so that being said that's why we try to you know push you know our agenda of Israel to make sure that we have a safe Israel um but we do want to have make sure that we have a safe uh and environment in West Orange that we could get along and I too will fight for all types of and speak out onto all types of of discrimination and and support all resolutions um to to make sure that there's no discrimination in in West Orange so I want to thank you all for your time and again I want to thank also uh the mayor for the hard work that she's put in uh which wasn't mentioned than uh council president I see Council Will Williams Council Will Williams can you hear us I spoke to her she said that she can hear us I can okay great great very good thank you Council Williams um Arthur dnov welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record my name is Arthur dubo I I've lived in uh West Orange with my wife for the last 48 years on D'Or Drive um first of all uh council president Rutherford uh congratulations on being sworn in I love the picture of it of of the swearin and your parents must be very proud of you so uh congratulations and very pleased about that um I will try to address some of the things that have been mentioned um uh first and foremost October 7th you know has has uh been a driving point of increased anti-Semitism across the world and in the United States I worry for my grandchildren and someday I hope for my great grandchildren and and it's very worrisome but I don't want to frame this in the sense that that this tremendous dispute that's going on is as the council president has described it about adopting this resolution is is um related in a Jewish sense to October 7th I mean let's remember what IH stands for which is the international Holocaust membrance Alliance and it was passed by 31 members of that state including the state department of the United States in 2016 and as as Hadar Weiss mentioned many many US states and many many countries and many many cities across New Jersey and elsewhere have adopted this it shouldn't be so uh you know um tremendously uh argumentative to talk about it but I do feel that October 7th is related to the um controversy because I think rightfully many of the uh Muslims that have spoken and other Jews and other people who have spoken against the resolution um have been horrified by the awful deaths of so many people in Gaza and I think you know that the anti-zionism has gone up because of that and I think it's a horrible thing that's happened in Gaza to these innocent people uh but that's what the word that the words human shield mean uh if you look at what as which has been designated for many many years as a terrorist organization by the United States and other free world States um you know has been using these orgins as human Shields and it's just awful and so I think that's where this controversy comes up of adopting what many many organizations governmental organizations have have adopted long ago and which we feel is the right thing to adopt as far as people feeling like they're not being counted in several people have mentioned this previously please recommend your own uh you know uh resolution to the Council on what you would like to see adopted as it relates to um you know islamophobia or anything else and uh it should be carefully and and uh uh appropriately considered and hopefully would be adopted with the right language um so I think that would be the right thing to do in that respect um and the uh the last thing I have to say is I did take offense that people calling Israel minute remaining thank you um many many years ago it must have been about 15 years ago I had the pleasure of being in Israel M and I was driving up a hill so long traffic light people were crossing across to get into a parking lot I was going up the hill and there was another car coming down the hill and it was at the time of uh the period where there was big controversy that Saudi women weren't allowed to drive cars and I looked over at a d at the car going in the opposite direction for me and it was a driver's ed car with a woman in a hijab learning to drive in Israel and I have many non-jewish friends in Israel uh we have worked together on a variety of things and Israel is not an aparte State and it's shameful to call it that and I the adoption of 34 19 thank you Rachel Hershey um sorry for any earlier confusion uh welcome to the meeting please unmute yourself and state your name and address for the record Rachel Hershey if you can hear us you need to unmute yourself okay I have to move on I can come back Jen welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record Jennifer grenberg and I live um on confor Avenue I I'll try to be brief because I know everybody is exhausted and again congratulations bill um Council council president thank you for your time I am going to speak on the resolution very very briefly I know a lot has been said I would really uh I don't know if appreciate is the right word but I find it really important that it is PED um I've been on a couple of these before um I'm a single mom here to a wonderful young Jewish boy who is so confused at what's going on around him and I come from a long line of survivors former uh parents came from the former Soviet Union and um when I was telling them about this they were in complete stock that it's it's um being debated which is what other people have said this has passed in multiple states of States beside States um beside other countries but even in neighboring states that that was essentially unanimous there there wasn't this much debate we are not asking for anything that is so insane and I've heard people on on this call say a lot of myths so to speak about what this what the IH definition of anti-semitism does um people fear that it stands in the way of Palestinian human rights and that the this F this predication basically that Zionism and Palestinian human rights are somehow mutually exclusive that you can't be pro-israel and pro Palestine at the same time and that being a Zionist means you must be anti- palentine this is nonsense it if you support a two-state solution if you are PR lives in general you already support the right right of both groups to self-determination and it's extraordinarily easy to advocate for Palestinian rights without being anti-semitic especially according to the IH issues such as advocating for greater employment quality for Arab Israelis and all of those things are acceptable within an within an IH framework there are I apologize the I another criticism that many people or claims that people are making is that the person purpose of the definition is to stifle speech that's critical of Israel however this is not the case it specifically mentions that criticism of Israel simil similar to that level against any country other country cannot be regarded as anti-semitic and the only real risk of this definition stifling Free Speech lies in the possibility that it could be used irresponsibly by some authorities in in other words the definition it is not with it it's not with the definition itself but rather with some with how some people will read and apply it I don't want to continue as I know many of these things have have been said and I really don't want to take time but I am very much for the resolution and I would really like to see it passed I think it would be a great step in the right direction for your Jewish um the Jewish community and the rest of the community as well and I encourage the others who have spoken if they feel that a resolution is required for them then they should write one as well we have been the target targets of anti-Semitism for a while now and October 7th was clearly clearly the numbers have gone up since then and I think passing a resolution like this like was done in Livingston and like was done in in other towns unanimously should also be done here thank you so so much Dean iPhone welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record gan's iPhone please unmute yourself I'm sorry council president I'm having a problem with my screen um trying to restore it Bruce pays welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record hi um I'm Cru pays um I'd like to keep my um address private um just for privacy issues um I am going to try to make this quick I apologize for my voice um I am speaking to you today to discuss a topic that has been weighing heavily on my heart anti-Semitism it deeply saddens me to see that in this day and age since hatred and discrimination still exists in our society and Community anti-Semitism is a dark cloud that has loomed over Humanity for centuries the history of persecution and discrimination against Jewish people is a painful reminder of the depths to which Humanity can sink from the horrors of the Holocaust to to the countless acts of violence and Prejudice the Jewish Community has endured unimaginable suffering and now with the terror attack by Hamas the recognized terrorist organization on Israel has made anti-Semitism rise in ways that we have never seen before something that no one can consciously deny it is disheartening to witness the rise in anti-Semitism incidents across the globe acts of vandalism verbal abuse and even physical attacks on Jewish individuals and institutions continue to occur not to mention right here in our very own town and surrounding towns this hatred not only targets A specific group of people but also undermines the principles of equality respect and human dignity that our society and Community should uphold the impact of anti-Semitism extends far beyond the Jewish Community it endorses the ver the very fabric of our diverse and Multicultural Society and community creating a environment of fear distrust and division We Must Stand United against such hatred fostering empathy understanding and acceptance for people of all backgrounds education and awareness play a crucial role in combatting anti-Semitism by promoting inclusivity teaching tolerance and challenging stereotypes we can strive together a more compassionate and Equitable society and Community collectivity we have the power to change the narrative to create a world where anti-Semitism is but a dark chapter in history let's not forget that Israel and the Jewish people are the only country and people in the world that need to defend themselves for defending themselves this isn't Jewish versus Muslims I encourage you to join me and so many others in taking a stand against anti-Semitism let us engage in open conversations support organizations working to combat discrimination and actively challenge any form of prejudice we encounter together we can make a difference and build a future where everyone is valued and respected regard or cultural background I truly believe that by raising awareness and fostering empathy we can create a more inclusive world for future Generations let us combat anti-Semitism together with factual information and not propaganda therefore I ask the council members to approve resolution 3924 anti-Semitism thank you RBC welcome to the meeting please State your full name and address for the record RBC please unmute yourself State your full name and address for the record RBC yes pleas yes can hear you please State your full name and address for the record sure my name is Ry Baron Cohen and I'm from West Orange I live in West Orange um forgive me I do not have prepared statements uh thank you for taking the time to let us all speak um I'm actually kind of horrified um this is the first time I'm listening to a town council meeting and I'm hearing people speak about global politics I'm hearing people be divisive and throw around a lot of misinformation uh that I feel puts my family and my friends in this community at risk um I'm not only a longtime West Orange resident but I am Israeli as is my husband I was a little offended to hear somebody State uh that people in Israel were people do not look like them well my husband looks like them my husband is an Arab Jew I guess if you will he is Egyptian and Turkish I'm sure we have a lot more in common than that um and I just don't understand why this is up for a debate I think it's kind of obvious that this whole intent to demonize Israel and the zionists as they say is just uh disguise for continued anti-Semitism in the world in our community um I just don't understand why we in this community can't find common ground and why anyone would feel that putting together a resolution um for anti-Semitism to protect against anti-Semitism um would come at their expense um I hope that this town count Council would find ways to um Bridge um some uh and start some conversations there's a lot of Education that needs to be done here um so yeah I support this resolution and I hope this Town Council does as well and I would support any resolution that targets any um other ethnicity or any other group thank you uh council president we're down to four individuals who I've called on earlier but were not able to speak so I'm going to go through that these four individuals give them one last opportunity uh if not Mr Fagan and should they not be able to connect um we will be moving to close uh public comment okay Rachel Hershey last call if you can hear us yes yes I'm sorry previous problems uh please state your name and address for the record Rachel hery um eight oh just West Orange I live in West Orange um so you all know me on the council because I worked um a lot on the Cannabis ordinance and you know me as a lawyer but it turns out um I'm also a linguist I I studied at Harvard which is not a good thing to say nowadays especially if I'm Jewish but at that time there was no anti-Semitism on campus and I trained as a computer scientist and as a linguist so I've been hearing you know many years this is not the first time Israel is a paride Israel is this Israel is that and I'm like confused because what do you mean I've been there there the government the last government with Bennett had um an Arab um party as one of the parties of the Coalition so what are people talking about well I finally got it I finally got it when on a snippet of the Friday celebration for Palestinian culture one of the speakers specifically says we've been occupied for 75 years I go what you know we all think you're talking about Gaza and Israel left Gaza in 2005 he's talking about 75 years well you all know I think Israel just became a state 75 years ago so the reason we are all not connecting is that there's a certain sect of um Pro Palestinians that are clearly denying the right of Israel to exist and are saying and are calling us occupiers because they think we've been occupying the Palestinian mandate um which they I don't want to speak for them but somehow they think they should have gotten the whole Palestinian mandate which was 75 years ago so that is clearly not what um legally happened all these states I don't know if you know that many of the Arab states were created in um around the same time that Israel was created all of these states generally are not indigenous people but the Jews are indigenous people I don't know why that Palestinian person claimed to be indigenous to the land she's not we all know that the Jewish um o um I can't say occupied lived in Israel what is now the state of Israel over 3,000 years ago 1100 BCE was when King David the person who wrote the Psalms that multiple religions read you know over and over and over that was King David he was in Israel he was the king of Israel the Jews are indigenous to Israel no other people are indigenous to that land um and that's very important so the reason people are saying we're apoide is I guess because if you look at Gaza true as someone said there are no Jews there no Jews in Gaza well that section is clearly a paride um West Bank well that's uh Up In Contention is that part of Israel or not any extra territory in addition to what was in 1948 was one minute was one by Israel by Wars started by the Arab states those are the facts screaming you know all this other stuff is just as someone has said misinformation miseducation and bias and racist I will say you guys who can't even sign an anti-em ISM um or a resolution are the racist people here uh not the Jews thank you shif maelle if you can hear us please unmute yourself shereif maelle last call moving on Andre Sultan if you can hear us please unmute yourself Andrea Sultan last call moving on Rachel Rachel if you can hear us please unmute yourself last call Rachel Dr lickman welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record Dr lickman can you hear us uh yes I can can you hear me yes please continue state your name and address for the record uh my name is Helen Dr lifman I live on Stanford Avenue um I was not planning on speaking but uh when I uh I've been listening to this whole thing from seven o'clock onward I was kind of surprised to hear all these Jewish people um saying how they did not support this resolution I was kind of surprised um and uh but then I started hearing uh so many others saying that they did support it but I kind of Wonder and I I don't know how it works you know why they're all later so anyone that left real early may have gotten the impression that the Jewish Community um was was not supporting this resolution so I I think anyone that stayed for longer would would know otherwise um I was there in Israel and October 7th uh we were in danger we did have to flee um separate from that it reminded me of the Holocaust my parents are Holocaust Survivors they're from Poland 95% of Polish jewelry was wiped out um anyone that survived except for my parents did go to Israel um and um uh however that is not where all of Israel jewelry came from um I've been doing some research and uh the same number of of of um Arabs that had to that fled Israel um is not any larger than the number of Jews that had to flee Arab countries after Israel became a state because it was so untenable there and that is why you also heard from several people um who were not only Jewish but were also one was Iranian one was Egyptian and I don't remember who else there was but um and and more than half I think about 60% of of Israel and maybe even more in the beginning um did come from the Arab countries so and they came from the Arab countries because they had to escape and they had to leave and they had to flee and they had to leave everything behind um and I know Joe rosada was on from Iran and uh I I believe that is his situation uh as well as that of many others um I genocide is something that did happen um genocide is is is when you when you specifically look to annihilate an ethnicity um as was done in Europe and that is not what Israel is doing today I was though particularly shocked when I came back to the United States from Israel two days later after the attacks happened and um and and before Israel had done anything to retaliate M and I heard people saying well there's there's two sides I mean they they were Justified so you know I I kind of have difficulty with that um I know it's very late and so I will say good night and not take my full amount of time thank you J welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record my name is Kim Goldman I live on Curtis Avenue in West Orange I also didn't really intend on speaking tonight uh it's definitely after listening to rabis wickler Rabbi blot Mr buskin Mr duboff Rabbi speac if you listen to what they have to say the fact that the world has voted on this unanimously in many countries and in many states there's not much to discuss the reason I felt the need to speak was I heard tonight something in this meeting that was very disturbing no one else picked up on it or said anything about it but a speaker tonight implied that a Imam in Newark Imam Sharif who was murdered last week implied that we know the reason why he was killed and actually pretty much putting it out there that it has to do with this conflict and almost implicating Jewish people and that is hate speech and that happened here in this town council meeting and we can go back and we could listen to it a hundred times but it was said here and I want to point it out it was wrong it shouldn't be said I actually have a friend in the New York police department they they don't even believe it has anything to do with race or hate or or religion but the fact that was said here today is a good example of how blood lials are started and how blood lials will continue I'm sure we'll hear it again and again and again but it was stated here at our town council meeting in West West Orange it is very important to vote for this to support this this resolution introduced by Town councilwoman Scarpa and I hope that you guys will respond properly thank you are you serious Norman Norman caner welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record Norman caner please unmute yourself I think there's a few misconceptions that have not been hold on a second I'm getting feedback is that better that's better yes uh please state your name and address for the record Norman caner West arms one moment I'm going to try to adjust the volume here is there another laptop in your room in the room with you somebody's listening on close it no you have to close your all right I am powering off the other source just mute the mic it will be fine moment please okay I think there are some misconceptions in general and we're trying to solve the international problems which is absurd in such a short amount of time my point of view is that this is the oldest hatred in the world and nobody on the other side is really addressing that they're attaching all the controversy now to specific things that have happened locally and lately these are just triggers that happen each generation and unearth a 3,000 year old hatred my point of view is that for those who are willing to open their minds and that's on both sides you either will admit to the fact that we've been in that area for 3,000 years or you will not if you continue to call Israel living there the NBA since 48 nothing will ever be solved we have a right to be there October 7th happened and everyone is trying to create a moral equivalency of things that happened bad things that happened to Muslims and Arabs but they're not attached to us they're not attached to Jews being in that land absent that admission there's very little that will ever be solved so if what Larry Ryan suggested that we sit down and talk if that can ever be bridged where we will come to some sort of compromise that we will share that land as we have tried to do since before 1948 and that is the fact that 1.6 to2 million uh Arabs live in Israel as free citizens as full citizens of Israel have the full rights in Israel that we as Americans do here they have the right to vote they're in the bodies of of law they're in the knesset and they have an equal right to speak to be heard and to vote and coalitions are created not without them but with them if that is about to happen all else is possible absent that we will fight until the end of time so right now the fact that there are so many Palestinians being killed is an abject horror as was the massacre of those 200 plus people but they are not equivalent and they cannot be created to believe that there is an equivalent Hamas started this war with that action and war is awful and has casualties we are the only army in the world that drops leaflets that says okay we know you're being held and there's there's a Hamas person behind you with you as their shield in spite of that you have the opportunity to take the chance now move to another area who does that there are videos of Israeli soldiers feeding the locals in Gaza who are still living there who haven't moved helping their children and Engineering them to have the ability to get medical cure and Care in Israel if it were the reverse remain could not thank you if the reverse were true and any Israeli walked into Gaza before this war they would be slaughtered the other way is hundreds of thousands I'm sorry tens of thousands of of Arabs from Gaza work in Israel every single day those numbers have been curtailed since the war but if any of those wanted to apply for citizenship they could uh that's all I have to say thank you for the opportunity and I hope that somehow some way we can sit down at the table together find a middle ground that begins with the admission that we have the right to exist and defend ourselves and we have the right to not be slaughtered by someone who crossed the border hundreds at a time just with the object of slaughtering torturing and videoing the evidence that the world is there to see they also promised to continue to do this time is up thank you Tomy Festina welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record I apologize if I mispronounce your name it's okay that was uh Demi festini um I also don't feel comfortable giving out my um my address um I would like to just very very briefly say uh I beg those of you who are going to vote on this to please do your research the amount of lies and fallacies that we've just heard are quite insane and can easily be found out through a simple Google search there have been just the last five people who were talking about the so-called equal rights that that Palestinians get that almost in every instance of the last five almost called Palestinians Hamas if that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about the individuals supporting this resolution I don't know what else will thank you so much Howard dreu welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record this is bro hi this is the pump's not working is there someone talking in your background no councilwoman Williams you're not muted hi this is Debra juice speaking and I just want to say that I've listened to everyone and um this resolution 3 934 is to uphold our Democratic Values to live freely and the fact that you allow us to speak up reflects our freedom here however the debate is dividing us more and more my question is why why are you hesitating to pass this resolution and what are your questions and concerns that you hold back is it is it linked simply to not about the flag raising or is it much deeper and what there was no flag raising would this still this issue still be a concern of yours at present there is a fact that there's an increase in violent rallies against Jews and against Americans and a lack of Civility demonstrated by the pro Palestinians interfering with highways and taking over areas that are threatening and so even the association that we have this time of all the events that are are going on it is very very difficult but the fact is that these Brazen actions and slogans against Jews against Israel particularly and against America and civilians living here are threatening and not acknowledging acknowledging this braz is strange the fact that the flag that they are raising is associated with this brazenness is a very deep concern so that it is very important that this the resolution be understood clearly by speaking this out it does help us to understand more clearly what our values are and how we talk to each other and listen to each other but we have to acknowledge the fact that hate speech and the association with a movement to annihilate another nation and the Jewish to Israel and Jewish people goes far deeper because these slogans are here and they're widespread and they've exploded worldwide and so therefore if there's a hesitancy and there's a need to bring this resolution up there is a need and the fact that there is a hesitancy on your part on the people who don't who do not have to deal with two different sides it is important for you to understand the facts of why it is and to explain it and uphold the values of our democratic government thank you council president there are no more hands raised for public comment thank you Mr Fagan I move to close public comment second you don't need a motion for that Council pres it's cled cled thank you it's closed thank you uh clerk council president who's that Susan McCartney yes mayor yes sir at the start of the meeting you said that you did want to hear from the administration and I do feel the need to speak at this moment uh because during this raw and tender climate in our community I do believe that the last thing we want to cause is even more divisiveness but as we are witnessing tonight words do matter I need to explain that in mid December remember I met with many of the speakers here this evening supporting their request to have a ceremony to break the Palestinian silence and to celebrate our Palestinian residents with culture their culture with food music and dance while remembering the many innocent victims in the Israel Israel Hamas conflict oh this is so difficult um what happened next was that the graphic that was submitted to the township to make the announcement I believed contained language that would invoke and polarize and mobilize our community and as we're hearing this evening that's exactly what happened I am disheartened I was disheartened because when I called the organizers to explain my decision to postpone the event I learned that that there was debate even among the organizers on the use of the phrase that it was controversial and I was faced yet again in a deju moment with compelled compelled to respond again when the students tried to have their walk out they had a right to have a walk out but not using phrases that would incite say segments of our community I was dis I was very upset when I discovered discovered West Orange was listed on a national protest calendar I could not reconsider my decision at that point for the safety of our community facing the unknown I am truly grateful that the event was peaceful as proposed but words do matter and I feel that that's what this resolution is saying that words do matter I would support any resolution that affirms West Orange as a safe and welcoming Community as we move forward this resolution is explaining to our community that hate does have no home here thank you thank you mayor um we I'm going to ask my colleagues to refrain from responding to public comment uh until we have the uh Administration respond to the issues that were raised that um that deal directly with the administration um I'm gonna ask the clerk to make sure that I cover all of them I've asked Mr Abbott uh to do so as well um Mr tractenberg um asked some questions with regard to um the the employment contracts I think he just meant the the Professional Services awards that are on the res on the agenda tonight uh he was asking specifically about how uh why we got to the point where we have uh vendors or contractors doing or performing roles that employees used to perform uh um Mr Abbott would you please speak to that yes council president so you know over the years the the work force has shrunk significantly and the need for expertise has expanded dramatically we can't expect one or two or three engineers in the public works department to be able to cover all these different areas that need to be covered so it's easier to to Outsource them and it's it's actually more efficient because you're only paying them when you need them if we have a full-time engineer on that we're paying you know you name it I don't know $200,000 you're paying them whether they're on vacation whether they're out sick whether they're here or not here to have one engineer and an assistant engineer manage these projects and programs and have the expertise available is probably the most efficient way to go thank you Mr Abbot um uh that's a philosophical approach to management um there's no right or wrong answer to that uh question but uh clearly the decision over the last period of time has been to use to rely more on vendors and contractors than on employees uh Mr trackon Berg also asked um he asked about um he questioned whether or not Matrix uh the developer uh who has been named the developer for the movie studio project was the same as Matrix world just to clarify they are not the same they are not affiliated in any way shape or form uh there's no overlap in ownership uh and they don't perform the same uh type of work um Mr Blandon asked about the always stop sign at Mitchell and Valley claims that there's one already there uh Mr Abbott or Mr smdo could you speak to that there there's not a four this ordinance is for a four-way stop there's uh stop signs traveling each east and west on Mitchell at Valley as you approach Valley whether you're going east or west however there are not stop signs north and south on Valley itself and that's where they're going to be erected thank you Mr Adam um he also asked about competitive bids for I'm trying to read my notes now engineering uh I'm not sure what that means actually cler can you help me with that that was from Mr BL I'm sorry that's from Claire sylvestri not Mr Bland uh Claire sylvestri asked a question about competitive bids um yeah can you speak to that I don't do you know coun um Madam clerk he had a question regarding um see I have the three different resolutions that she was questioning uh the resolution with regard to Richard Tran the uh one regarding uh gel Paul gel and 34 the need for engineering yes Professional Services contract for CME Associates having to do with the Main Street Corridor crosswalks and sidewalk Improvement project did was that bid out um Mr Abby the the so the two that I have um there's an emergency repair that we we got quotes on but not uh it was not bit out because it's an emergency repair time did not not allow for that and then the engineering firm uh was bid out CME was the low bidder at 75,000 green Greenman Peterson was at 842 Colliers no response h2m no response Suburban Consulting no response thank you sir uh Todd deoi um I think this is more for Mr trink uh Todd deobi asked about uh campaign donations conflicts of interest and legality of awarding a contract to someone or a firm who has uh employees or owners that have made campaign donations can you speak to that Mr Trent uh the pay to play was as you're aw under the last um legislative session were modified by traton whereby contributions over $200 are reported there is no more ability to have local pay to play so there's no as I think the uh speaker said there's no uh impropriety or whatnot that the disclosures are the disclosures that are all with the election law enforcement commission uh and online so um I'm not sure if there's was any other further specificity to that thank you Mr trink um with regard to the question regarding the temporary budget um it's my understanding that this budget uh will cover us for the first quarter of 2024 it allows us to do our uh introduce a full budget uh by the deadline which is in March and I have been assured that we will uh meet that deadine line this year um so I don't I don't I mean that's a ministerial thing that's a we've done this every year that I've been on the council and uh I would imagine for many years prior to and it's all statutory statutorily required yeah uh and I think the other ones aren't really for you guys um uh Mr rabbit if you don't mind addressing this terrorist website that both our mayor and Sally Malanga referenced with regard to the uh flag Palestinian flag raising ceremony So based on some of the emails and things I've read um it's my understanding that the Palestinian uh cultural event flag raising front of town hall was advertised on a uh a terrorist website that was identified by the jttf um I don't have a lot of firsthand knowledge about that this is only things that were shared with me um and I don't know that the organizers themselves went to this organization to put it on the website or they just picked up on it so yeah I'm treading very carefully here I don't want to put my foot in my mouth um I don't really know I know I know that the organization that advertised it is tied to terrorism but I'm I'm being very clear that I'm not accusing the organizers of that and the jttf is joint terrorism task force yes all right um did you receive any uh risk um any elevated risk uh threats or announcements or guidance from any of the uh state or federal bodies that uh would normally provide that to you uh no I don't recall we we did our our reporting to the uh New Jersey State Police Regional operations Intelligence Center The Rock um we reported to them as we're required to but I did not get a lot of uh feedback from either the the federal or prosecutor's office or sheriff or you know were there anybody State Police FBI no there wasn't a lot on the on the radar screen from them coming toward us to us was there anything coming from them to us with regard to a Potential Threat or risk not that I recall thank you Mr Abbot um [Music] I hope I haven't missed any Mr Gainer um requested information regarding his pension payments now I've received that information I believe my colleagues have as well uh so I'm I'm trying to understand why it's not uh updated in the system and he's not receiving his his uh credit I oh I'm sorry just I was just going to say since there seems to be a comfort level between Mr Gainer and Mr smdo I was going to ask uh Pete but he may have the answer to meet with n lions and pay a roll tomorrow get whatever we have and get it to Mr Gainer and make sure everybody on the council and the mayor are all copied so everybody's on the same sheet of music here thank you uh do appreciate that and would certainly uh welcome that Mr smdo do you have a further explanation I I basically what the chief said um but we know I know for fact I asked Mr gross about this um everything has been supplied to the state um the issue is unfortunately is that when Mr gain retires um we certified the the pension bill it was based on what the numbers were at the time there was an error that has been taken care of the money has been sent to the state and it's up to the state now to make the adjustments I just want to make it clear that Mr Gainer does receive a pension payment but it's just that it's not adjusted correctly so it's not as if he's not receiving and while we you know empathize and understand that um there there's some things that are at our hand and that we need to um contact the State itself well well he may even have to contact the State because we have done that but um and I've been assured that all that information has been sent out through OAS and everything else but we will guarantee that we will make sure that that gets out and I will contact them thank you and Mr smdo if possible please make a phone call to the state and and give them as hard of a time as we can until they properly credit Mr G and give him his back pay um we've been dealing with this now for about a year and unfortunately council president the uh everything has been placed the state and once it gets the state it really is out of our hands this is not we're not trying to stall we're not doing anything to that effect it's just wouldn't accuse you of that Mr moraldo and we we will do our best I can guarantee do our best sometimes the squeaky wheel gets de gree absolutely he maybe you can uh maybe you can go to Senator mckean's office and uh see if he can help us out with this too we will do what we can to make sure that this gets um taken care of I correct I know of a a captain in another town in in Essex County that has been retired a year in this nove past November it was a year U because I retired November 22 and his pension still is not correct and it and it's kind of similar to Mr gainers where um there was a settlement without going to a lot of detail so his his pay his pensionable salary was increased at the end and it's just the the pension is telling him he's right and he should be getting the full amount but he's not and uh the particular town has been doing everything they can to help him as well but has not been successful so and I have a few friends expectations I have a few personal friends are going to the same ex that thing yeah I just want to be clear this is not to accuse anyone in town hall of d the ball that's not the accusation at all just want to make sure we go um and create as much um noise as we can so that somebody you know gets so sick of us that they finally fix it um that is all that I had for the administration did I miss anything um Madam Clerk or Mr rabbit I don't believe I have right so um I'm sorry Todd Todd doovi wanted to know about the forensic psychologist so ifp is the firm we use for police psychologists and firefighter psychologists uh before they go to the academy when they're hired it's legally required that we send police officers to a psychologist I'm not certain with fire if it's a legal requirement but it's certainly a good practice and that's what that U that resolution is for as too yes that that's why it's on there correct yes and the fire department uses that as well and they're also our our experts and if we ever needed for reasons that there's appeals and things of that nature and the other thing that um that uh Mr doovi asked about where the appraisal firms and Hendrick Hendrick is a firm we've used for years they're kind of what I for lack of a better term I'll call our gu Garden variety appraisals um the uh 15-24 is I believe is that has to do with our reval that we're going through the uh 23-24 CIS that's our housing rehab program and then the last one uh BBG is for our Redevelopment downtown so they're they're you know they're four different firms you only pay them when you use them and they have four different areas of expertise so you know there's not like one of them can do all four things thank you and and piggy back on it because I did talk to our assessor office of they are attorneys that represent us in appeals some of them are tax experts so they as as the chief just stated you know we have there's doctors with Specialties as there are lawyers and that's what each one of these PRS has been hired to do for their Specialties and assist us and with the permanent processes got it thank you gentlemen um all right so we can go to responses to public comment um we'll start with councilwoman Williams hey thank you council president um at this time I just wanted to say thank you to all of the members of the public who have taken an opportunity to share with us your concerns uh thank you for allowing us an opportunity uh to hear your voices we have received every sent um before the Christmas holiday a tremendous amount of communications um regarding sentiment around the Palestinian flag raising around the Standalone anti-semitic resolution um hundreds of emails over a thousand some of those I've had an opportunity to respond to independently and certainly your public comment here this evening um speaks to the Myriad of those emails and is a continuation of lifting your voice so that we can respond to and make sure that we we understand your sentiment personally um I don't want to take this opportunity to respond specifically um to any of those requests what I do realize is that there is a tremendous divide among resolutions for anti-Semitism and stand alone in this community um what I do realize is as a black woman as your first elected black woman in West Orange the sentiments about how you feel and how certain comments and instances and incidents have made you feel are realistic and what I also believe is that it is very difficult for your elected officials to legislate your feelings I do understand the sentiments and the uh outrage from our Jewish neighbors but I also have understood and had an opportunity to listen to that same outrage from our Palestinian Muslim and Islamic residents as well so as it relates to this resolution and sentiments around the flag raising which has been the overwhelming outpouring of communications here that we've listened to this evening it is very difficult for me to try and legislate hate and indeed that is what we're legislating that is what we're debating that is what we're discussing how do we deal with hate and in West Orange we pride ourselves on the diversity of our community but never before as an elected official as a resident of this community and I have lived here since 2002 for 22 years I have lived in this community and I have never ever had an opportunity to experience what we've experienced here today and so it is a very very difficult predicament to find myself in it is a very very difficult position for me to have to decide and determine how do I govern and so right now at this moment I have no response that is going to dictate and determine my decision how I legislate how we move forward but it is very very disappointing to hear that we are at such a division in our community and we have to decide whether or not geopolitical politics are going to dictate how we treat our neighbors or whether we are going to to live and continue to live in West Orange with pride in our diversity with pride in our differences acknowledging those but understanding that we have to be kind and love one another so to those questions and to those answers it is difficult it is daunting it is unbelievable that we are here today but here today we find ourselves in decisions we must make as it relates to Professional Services contracts within our community certainly we all have questions and certainly we want to make sure we've done our due diligence to dig a little deeper and certainly what we also realize is that we can't keep doing things the same way and expect different results so though I don't discount the challenges that have been raised among some of the contracts I certainly ask the same questions making sure that when we move forward with these professional contracts that we are not doing anything to compromise the municipality so those questions that may or may not have been asked I raise those same questions and if those answers have not been presented which of course some of them have not then I look forward to the continued uh response from our Administration this is a sad time for West Orange but this is also an opportunity for us to Pivot and make West Orange the best that she can be I don't have all the answers I don't know what the answers are going to be but I do know that we have to work together we're going to have to do more than lip service to some of these challenges it's going to have to require a tremendous amount of work work it's not simply an ordinance that is going to dictate what we expect from each other because these ordinances are non-binding they have no enforcement capacity we do need to Define anti-Semitism but we also need to Define hate in general and so with that I'll close my public comment the hour is late I apologize if I have not addressed each and every of the concerns thank you council president for the opportunity to share and we'll wait until we get to the agenda to continue to debate and discuss thank you councilwoman uh councilwoman Scara can you hear me yes yeah okay thank you so much to all of you who came in out both for and against the anti-Semitism resolution as you know I am the sponsor of for months I've done so much research but tonight I've learned so much more you can't capture the emotion of everyone in an email uh this conversation needed to be had and I would have been happy to go on till two because this is the work that we needed to do and I hope we'll continue to do for mosha and those who talked about words mattering I've said it before I'm a speech language pathologist on my door I teach my kids it says kindness counts words matter the power of language and I think Susan mcart mayor McCartney made that really clear clear in her words to us tonight and I think we need to remember that this resolution is not a statement about global Affairs or Wars it is a direct response to the surge of the 30 333 per rise in anti-Semitism since October 7th Rachel hery has been working on this resolution with me for almost six months thus I want to thank her for her enormous effort and her legal guidance and to all those who have worked with me to help this make make this a resolution that will ensure that all of our residents of our community feel safe and welcome but specifically defines anti-semitism ISM and makes us aware of those anti-semitic acts that have taken place in West Orange and in our surrounding communities as a businesswoman I learned that the first step to solving a problem is admitting that it exists the next step is to clearly Define the problem it is clear that there is confusion about what anti-Semitism is which is one why we needed to specifically Define it in this resolution it's also clear that due to the acts of violence thrust upon the Jewish community in West Orange and around our surrounding communities this Standalone resolution is necessary at this time I struggled to make this resolution inclusive of everyone and for those who have haven't had the opportunity to read it I want to read the first few sentences whereas individuals looking to promote hate in the United States have historically exploited and continue to exploit bigotry and weaponized hate for political gain targeting traditionally persecuted peoples including African-Americans Latinos Native Americans asian-americans and Pacific Islanders and other people of color Jews Muslims Hindus siks and the LBG Community immigrants and other marginalized groups with verbal attacks incitement and violence I think we got everybody but if there's anyone that's left out they could be put in and and this this I just want everybody to really realize that this was a struggle for all of us who worked on this and you just we just have to continue to do this work but I urge all of my colleagues to begin the process of healing this community by adopting this resolution and I'll save the rest of my comments for later on the other topics thank you Council Miss Scarpa uh councilwoman gber Michael good evening um I want to Echo councilwoman William sentiments um also I'd like to thank members of a West Orange for Humanity for planning a beautiful and peaceful cultural event on Friday I attended with my son uh we both spoke as well as council president Rutherford um it was nice to see the solidarity you could feel the love um and the cultural celebration um one thing we need to remember is that supporting our Palestinian residents does not mean we're supporting Hamas and I condone all forms of hate as well as terrorism you know and safety is key you know the fact that we've heard residents tonight come on stating that they don't feel safe and they don't want to get either their names or addresses it's disheartening to hear and whether you're Jewish Muslim No Matter What ethnicity or religious background everyone should feel safe and if you don't feel safe and you do feel like you're being targeted reach out to the police chief reach out to the Essex County prosecutor's office and chief hopefully you can speak up more about this because it really it's it's it's it's sad and and it's a shock to see and to hear so many residents and and to hear the disheartening voices no one should feel unsafe so please reach out to the chief also I believe we have to with an inclusive hate has no home here resolution um I'm going to make a a motion later on to table this resolution to re to to review it to work with different members and to edit it because we are very divided and I truly believe that we need to unite this town and everyone and have an inclusive hate has no home here resolution and so I'm going to end there with this topic um and then move on to Mr uh Mr Trent's contract um I do not support this resolution I will be voting no we are currently in litigation and we're waiting for the judge's decision and as mentioned earlier this never should have been placed on the agenda um so that's how I feel about that and then regarding uh resolution 12-24 I also plan to vote no um Mr GLE is not the planning director I've mentioned this in March when we voted on the Professional Services contract and someone in the administration I believe if you go back to that video I think it was Mr Rose even agreed with me that he's not the director he's a consultant the first page said director and then the rest of the contract stated that he was a consultant um I also attended the previous planning board meeting in which his name tag showed as planning director which is very misleading to Residents and to people who come to do business or you know attend the planning board meeting thinking he's the director he's a consultant um you know West Orange needs and deserves a full-time planner we've said it in almost every meeting I'm really happy that the ad ation is taking the first you know taking the step to advertise for a full-time planner um and I really hope that we do find the money in the budget to hire one but I am not in support of this resolution and I will end my uh public comment response thank you thank you councilwoman G Michael uh councilwoman castelino thank you Council president and thank you to all the residents who have emailed us stayed on the phone this evening for over five hours of public comment uh I know I couldn't get to all the emails uh there were so many they were passionate the the testimony tonight or the your public comment tonight was even more passionate very moving and you feeling very sad right now because no one should ever ever feel unsafe in our community no one they're they no one's child should ever feel uncomfortable in one of our schools going to our houses of worship walking on our streets going to our Parks shouldn't happen just should not happen and to hear the Heartbreak in so many this evening is is just so unsettling and and disturbing and um you know and then we'll get off this call and we'll all go turn on the news before we go to sleep and and have you know just just one nightmare after the other uh I said a couple meetings ago that we should take a pause and think about passing any resolutions and when when Council scorpa um first brought this up and then and doing not so much my research and and you know and I have done a lot of research uh on what's going on overseas but just focusing on what's going on in our own community and reaching out to uh different folks in the community um with looking through things through different lenses uh and just hearing where they're at and where their own personal stories um the flag raising I was with the mayor when she got a call about the flyer I know she was devastated but that she was doing the right thing um we you know we we knew about the uh very supportive of the Ramadan lights that we're looking forward to to happening in March I even with working with Miss uh bril and Miss mccampbell we decided to push back a restaurant week because it was originally set for that March weekend where Ramadan started and we thought it was you know with all the comments in the community really being more sensitive to everyone uh start Restaurant Week on a week that people are supposed to fast um you know you know we just trying to be more more sensitive and more thoughtful to our residents so uh We've researched that and uh pushing Restaurant Week back and just doing more and more and and listening to each other and and being more sensitive to see um where our residents sit uh in 1971 when uh a bomb went off uh at the then West Orange a Jewish Center uh which is now Temple Bai Shalom on Pleasant Valley way I was I was a young young kid and with was awakened by that we didn't have social media back then the news wasn't going 24 hours a day and we didn't know what happen in our home and we were scared of death I can't imagine anyone living through the crisis that is happening today I still remember that situation happening right here in West Orange my husband remembers it he lived in the Redwood section and you just felt it everywhere uh 1995 um with Lisa fet's family having to live with that Devastation of their young daughter going over to Israel and venturing into the Gaza Strip and losing her her her life from a suicide bomber um you know we were moralize that here in West Orange most high school students don't realize that is why at least it drive uh the very uh Road by degnan park where you go into the high school parking lot uh who that uh street is named after so I thought it was important that that get added to the resolution um as well because I think it is important for everybody to have this learning and this understanding how everybody feels and where everybody uh could be empathetic towards why everyone is feeling in the way they do um you know we did pass um or made the mayor uh then then mayor uh pesi had made a statement um uh back in I think it was 2019 uh uh on social media uh then I think it was council president uh mat Brown and and and tonight this is just adding to it um I spoke and reached out um to one of the flag raising organizers and she spoke this evening and I want to thank her M and um and was great conversation and I understand the need for my colleagues wanting one resolution because that would be simple and it's and should says it all but um listening listening to so many of our residents wanting to stand alone resolution and seeing the other communities not have issues with it and just keep going back of all that's happened in West Orange and there's been any numerous situations through the years that I I vaguely remember when people bring it up on hatred towards our Jewish community and even now I'm a little T him back because now they're known as a Zionist community and I understand what that means but we never growing up here in town we never refer to our Jewish Community as Z is still recently and that's that's troubling uh to me as well you know as far as being inclusive and having that mindset I also um am very supportive of uh if an anti-muslim uh resolution and we could say oh what are we going to do right a resolution for each Community well you know what if that's what we need to do to make everyone feel safe and welcome here um and they're worded um you know they're worded without um I you know I I never even the last time talking about this resolution we're going to pass this evening I wouldn't commit to it so I see it so um but I would be supportive um with one um but we could pass all the resolutions in the world if conversations don't happen we are not going to come to an agreement on anything the one agreement we should all have is that we have degree to disagree because a lot of them a lot of the the the uh passionate speakers this evening a lot of folks aren't going to agree with each other and I I heard that this evening but so you have to agree to disagree and how could we all live in harmony well we've been doing it for so many years we've been so crowd here in West Orange because we have been living in Harmony and trying to understand each other so so I think we all have to take a step back I think we all need to be respective of each other's feelings whether you agree with them or not and I think after this evening we have to start moving uh forward and if we have to pass aund more resolutions to do so um that's maybe the work we have to do it may some may think it may be unnecessary but um we're we're we're we can do it I I know we can with all the speakers tonight and being so passionate and your hearts everyone's heart is in the right place and um I think we will get there with the work I will go back and say one thing um I do appreciate with the organizers of the flag raising that you know they um did understand um because I felt bad for them I don't think they had any idea uh about the uh flyer that was posted to this website site and uh I had sent it to one of them when I was sent to me and um and so I appreciate um you know I appreciate them going even above and beyond with having other conversations trying to keep everything peaceful and uh our chief I mean outstanding job with keeping all of our events peaceful especially on Friday um he's not going to tell you but he um a lot of phone calls a lot of work went into um having a presence um of of our police force there to keep our residents safe so um that's that's that's what we do and we'll continue to do that but at some point um again it's so important to do the work and move forward with speaking to one another and understanding where everyone's coming from and learning to respect each other's opinions and and move forward but uh tonight I will be supporting this resolution because I feel that it is a start I don't think it takes away free speech um I've been reading it all night as we're sitting here and people are mentioning different items in it and again I don't sit in your shoes so I'm I'm respectful of that as well um so I I just I'm just going to move forward with that but again I'm I'm willing to support and look at other resolutions that may feel everyone feel uh safe moving forward thank you council president thank you councilwoman um celino all right so um it's already 12:40 I I I feel compelled though to speak uh with regard to uh 3924 in particular um so so first I think a very important question was asked by uh Deborah dreu why hesitate to pass the uh resolution um and I think that question actually speaks to the biggest challenge that we have we have people that are speaking at each other and not with each other um there's no hesitation to pass the resolution in the sense that the push back is not significant with regard to language there is some language in there that uh certainly has curs and push back but that's not uh what's keeping people from wanting to pass it um the the the reason why this is even a debate is because of um the progression of events um beginning on October 8th um our our mayor rightfully immediately reached out to Town Council and asked us to uh uh sign a letter of support for our Jewish neighbors and friends um it was done quickly it it could have certainly had Incorporated some more nuanced language as one of the commenters tonight said this is a thousands year old um battle war fight issue um so of course it's nuanced um but in the spirit of showing support in the face of a horrendous attack the mayor reached out right away and all five of us signed that letter uh and I don't regret signing that letter I don't think any of my colleagues do either um it was important at that time to show support for those that were hurting and devastated and shocked in the moment um but the sequence of events after that um made it difficult for some parts of our community to feel uh as if they were seen and heard and if their pain was felt too um and even tonight even in the mayor's response tonight um and I don't pretend to know anybody's intentions motives I don't read M but it sounded as if the um the cause of the the tension or the the vision in town is on the part of those that are uh now organized under the banner of West Orange for Humanity and I think we've got to take a step back and stop that um we have residents in um Palestinian or Muslim Community that are hurting and they need to be seen and heard and comforted we have residents in the Jewish community that are hurting they need to be seen and heard and comforted um and what I think is needed in this moment is uh the ability to in these official actions begin the actual process of bringing people closer together and Bridging the divide and that's really what I was pushing for I'm saddened that um some of the work that we were able to accomplish today one of the commenters I don't have permission to use her name uh so I won't but one of the commenters and I had a hourlong conversation or so this afternoon and it was uh a Frank conversation um at moments it was intense and we came away from that conversation with the agreement that um we would do a standalone anti-Semitism resolution um we would do a separate resolution to address hate has no home in West Orange this was a compromise by the way I I wanted one resolution that dealt with everything this individual wanted something focused solely on anti an semitism um and in our discussion we were able to find some common ground and the agreement was to uh table this resolution tonight for two weeks until our next meeting on the 23rd and in those two weeks work on a hate has no home uh in West Orange resolution that addresses the other forms of hate I think there was some miscon uh misunderstanding I think she thought I wanted her to work on the second resolution I didn't but in the interest of time I didn't belabor that point uh but the point was we as rational reasonable human beings acknowledging the humanity of each other and the needs of the entire Community were able to come to a compromise that I thought we could both live with and we could both live with um only to have that undone later on in the day um by you know folks that we're pulling and pushing in different in different directions and part of the reason why they're doing that is because we are not speaking with each other we're speaking at each other um you know I could I could go on about um whether or not this phrase or that phrase is hate speech what I've said consistently uh to everyone um my colleagues the administration West Orange for Humanity my Jewish neighbors and friends um as an African-American man if someone says something that I take as racist they may not have intended to be racist when they said it that it may not have even crossed their mind they may not have realized that I would even take it that way but the moment I say that it's racist it's racist it's racist to me and the response is not to deny how I took it if you're a compassionate human being your response is to say okay I understand how you feel let me course correct let me change my language but let's more important than that let's have a conversation about that so that one you don't feel that way if that wasn't my intention and two we find A Better Way Forward um so whether some of these phrases are actually uh racist or not or intentionally calling for violence or not or whatever they are when people take it that way it is incumbent upon the person who's saying it to be compassionate and then to course correct have the dialogue and move forward in a way that makes sense for both parties whether that was your intention or not and I don't think people disagree with that um for the most part obviously there are extremists in in every corner of our community um but most of us as evidenced by public comment tonight uh are reasonable and rational and are willing uh to be compassionate and empathetic and I take I'm that's hopeful I'm encouraged by that um I think it gives us the foundation to actually solve some of the challenges that we have uh but again I I don't think the issue is uh condemning anti-Semitism there was one comment to tonight said why is it so hard to condemn anti-Semitism or or or or to condemn anti-jewish language it isn't it's not hard all five of us as council members uh and I believe the entire Administration as well certainly all the senior leadership I can't speak for all 304 employees um but everyone that I've been in contact with does uh condemn anti-Semitism and um does stand against anti-jewish hate I think the issue is showing some balance and some fairness to a part of the community that does not feel that they are being heard and seen and comforted when they need it just as much as our Jewish neighbors and friends and again I think it was councilwoman I don't I don't remember which councilwoman said it but no one in West Orange is responsible for what happened on October 7th or October 6th or October 8th like we live here none of us are in Hamas or in the Israeli cabinet none of us are are are making those decisions none of us are at a level in federal government where we can affect what happens over there so we are neighbors and that should be our Focus here you know my goal in this entire thing has been to help bring people together I have um I have not made as much progress in that regard as I wish I would have and hoped to um but that remains my goal which is why I think we need to deal with hate as an issue as a whole and that is all that I asked for that's all that I've advocated for not that anti-Semitism isn't real or shouldn't be dealt with or addressed but when we address it let's address all of it because the outcry from one part of the community has been we're not seen heard or comforted and you you you do all these things for other parts of the community you're not doing it for us and we are your neighbors too we feel unsafe too it's not that other parts of the community shouldn't feel unsafe or or we want them to feel unsafe that it's that they feel unsafe too um and so as Leaders of town as as a a a Town Township Council our first obligation is Public Safety we've heard people on both sides of this particular resolution tonight say they feel unsafe I think it's important for us to do things take official actions that address all of them um I know my colleagues don't mind and I've heard multiple colleagues say they don't mind doing a ton of resolutions for uh for hate we can do one for each individual group that is experiencing it um I'm not in favor of that I I'll I just we have such challenges in governing this town and these challenges some of them are going to require significant Community input and support and if we're just constantly ripping the Band-Aid off and dealing with these issues ripping the Band-Aid off and deal with it again and rip it off again we're never going to get anywhere um so I would much rather take a holistic approach to it um and I encourage my colleagues to just consider that you know we don't have a fire to put out tonight or tomorrow um and um dealing with it all at one time alleviates some of the concerns that some in our community have um that aren't addressed by dealing with it tonight dealing with it tonight certainly addresses some concerns I share those concerns we've had these conversations but um I do think it's important to deal with the entire issue of hate and so that's that's I I just want our our my colleagues to consider that as we come to the actual agenda um I you know I am uh in support of of um not just making a statement about um anti-Semitism uh or other forms of hate uh but I am U intent on bringing people together tried to tried to get one group together two key Figures were traveling and couldn't do it one key figure traveled during a two week span and then two others were traveling in the next two week span so we just haven't been able to get it I tried to get some other smaller groups together before the flag raising I couldn't get agreement on it in in the in the one day that I had to get that done um and but I do expect that those meetings will happen and I do expect that as we speak more with each other we'll be able to find some common ground and be able to work together a little bit better and Bridge some of the Divide um and I and I I do have to say this I am grateful to um West Orange for Humanity uh for intervening with the c with the additional protests that were going to come from outside of West Orange and turn what was a peaceful event into something else thank you for stopping that um and I want to thank our Jewish neighbors and friends who intervened and stopped counter protesters from coming and turning what was a peaceful event or turning or having the potential to turn it into something else um and I think that shows that the overwhelming majority of people that are on both sides of this issue are people of Goodwill and I so that gives me hope and that gives me courage but but we still have work to do and I think just doing a part of the work doesn't solve the problem I think it makes it actually worse it makes people that already feel unseen and unheard and un uh and ignored uh feel even more so and it just makes it harder to get them back to a better place you know ultimately whenever we you know get to the real work which is outside of these resolutions um on on the other issues um that are on the agenda um I'm not even going to comment we're we're going to take some votes we'll have some discussion um as as council president and um chief it and I had a conversation about this today um you know you just jump right into the fire uh this is a very intensely charged time it's one o'clock in the morning we haven't even done a single agenda item uh but it's not just for tonight in general uh I am going to comment last so that I can only cover parts of public comment that have not been covered by my colleagues uh and my goal as council president will be to move the meetings forward get us to some uh level of normaly and stability with regard to these meetings uh so that we're not here starting the agenda at 1: in the morning uh so that being said I do want to thank everybody that commented I do have to again thank our police firefighters DPW um uh for the work they did on on last Friday um and for the work they do all the time I want to thank all the town hall employees that came today to wish me well as I I was sworn in um I want to thank my friends and family for being so supportive I'm looking forward to having a formal inperson celebration at our next council meeting uh and I do want to thank the mayor who I believe is still on on the call uh for sticking around and listening to all of that I think it's important um that each of us understand the breast of uh public comment uh and how the community is feeling on some of these highly charged issues that said um can we get to the agenda Madam Clerk yes sir okay so approval of minutes of previous meeting public meeting December 5th consent consent consent thank you report of Township officers none reading of petitions and Communications and bids none there are no bills this evening resolutions um uh resolution 3724 is being pulled by the administration um being pulled off the agenda is there any other resolutions being pulled this evening yes colleagues um Madam CL and and and um one one second counc one one second councilwoman um colleagues so I know there are some items that have questions um I I I think would be helpful for us to just we I'll call you we'll go down the road don't repeat what the other ones have already said even if someone has already pulled it and just State whether you're pulling it or you're um you're pulling it because you you have some concerns about your Vote or if you're pulling it just to ask questions um councilwoman Williams was speaking we can start with you thank you very much council president um I'm going to request um at the late hour in addition to the fact that I have not had power for the the past four hours um I am losing cell phone power as well and have no capacity based on the storm and outage um for us to reschedule this meeting um on another date so that we can have an opportunity to have robust discussion and that everybody has an opportunity to participate um it is one o'clock in the morning I don't even have I can't even see what my watch is saying I don't have the ability to review my notes this is this is something that I would ask that that you give us a courtesy and that we pull out our calendars and reschedule this me meeting at a at a better time there's a motion on the floor to adjourn and uh pick another date prior to our 23rd meeting to address uh the agenda tonight is there a second council president can I interject for a second I just want to remind do have a statutory requirement for the temporary budget is that something that we should maybe attempt to pass tonight um only because of the operation of the of the government and so what's the deadline what's the deadline on that I don't know how the exact deadline counsel woman I just want to make sure that we you know if that's something we need to get past statutorily I don't know if we have that answer that's the only reason I'm bringing it up I I mean I this is almost ludicrous I can't see anything so I don't even know if I had questions about the statutory budget I just wanted to bring that up and bring that you know to the attention just in case it becom a statutory issue that's all Mr rabbit Mr trink do you know if uh there's an impact to Township if uh if say we rescheduled within you know two or three days I I don't know what the amount of time the clerk would need I think it's two days to to announce it so if we were to reschedule by the end of the week would there be an impact I don't I don't know myself I don't know if Mr Tran knows that um it's a CFO question um you know again it's kind of a ministerial thing it's a statutory thing it's just a you know a last year's budget extending it three more months it's not really something got it got it cheap councilwoman uh Williams if if it's all right with you we do have um just these two the temporary budget and the cash management if we could vote on those but I I absolutely had questions on some of the cash man management so um I I did have questions if if the majority of the council and my colleagues are comfortable making this type of decision um that's fine and and I will abstain from the vote but I would ask as a courtesy to us and to the public um that we we adjourn and postpone and adjourn to a better time um colleagues so my question is a technical question of course I want to accommodate our colleague but the um so the so we have public comment this evening we move we continue the meeting is a continuation of where we are now or do the clock start all over again for public com recess this meeting to a future date because I I would recommend us voting on the items that were just mentioned and also uh resolution number uh 39 um not to prevent five hours of public comment at the next meeting no if we were to if we were to adjourn why if I'm I'm sorry if we were to to to just move this meeting to a continuation why would we have to resume public comment it would just pick up where we left off right so coun woman we would not have to entertain public comment we would just pick up where we're leaving off right now misunderstood I misunderstood her okay okay thank you okay so so listen I am in favor of that I I I think we had five hours of public comment um I think it was it was necessary I said during the meeting I'm loathed to stop it um uh I think it was good for everybody but it is 1 in the morning yeah and it is going to be difficult and we and the storm is quieted down outside my window but councilwoman Williams has no power um I I think if we just do the let's just do the temporary budget alleviate Mr gross's concerns because he's on vacation um and anything else we can handle on Thursday or Friday depending on what my colleagues availability is um um does that sound reasonable can I get some feedback from uh the other two I would appreciate that courtesy and that level of of yes I would I would thank you thank you thank you absolutely but can we pick the date now before we can but first let's agree and let's adjourn uh let's so the motion is on the floor to uh continue this meeting at a later date to be determined immediately after this vote moved was move so your second yeah okay councilwoman Celina yes councilman oh sorry councilwoman G Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes absolutely council president ruford yes clerk uh Madam clerk how many how many how many days do you need two days to announce a continuation uh 48 hour notice yeah and we do th no it's already Wednesday so so would you guys prefer I I I can do Friday can we do Friday I what time uh evening I can't do Friday evening do you want to meet so can you do when can you do Friday uh I gotta appointments [Music] um I can't I can't even think right now yeah I'm at school during the day how about next Wednesday yeah next week Monday Tuesday or Wednesday I'm not available Monday or Tuesday I'm available Wednesday or Thursday next week um Madame clerk can you look on the calendar and see if there are any um activities in town hall next week well downtown lines is Wednesday they may have to go on without you councilwoman no no I'm just saying as far as the room being oh no that's the conference room that's true right okay great so Wednesday the 17th or I I prefer Wednesday if possible yeah same 630 councilwoman Casto in our meeting it's 6:30 already they'll they'll be okay huh is 6:30 okay yeah how about SCA yes that's fine with me or is six o'clock available since we've already done the majority of public comment could we even move it to six o'clock I can do on Wednesday I was going to try to get a half hour in at the meeting but the other meeting meeting Council woman Council no no no no no that's fine it's fine it's fine thank you thank you thank you any objection to six o'clock Wednesday January 17th hearing none um so we've already taken the vote we're going to to uh continue this meeting we just selected the date it's going to be Wednesday January 17th 6 o'clock p.m. uh the clerk will will handle the public notice we will not have public comment We are continuing the meeting um I do think we need to before we adjourn I I think we need to vote on uh the temporary budget um that's resolution 224 can we just take that vote before we close our meeting yes do we need to vote on the cash management plan as well I don't think so both statutory I mean it doesn't hurt and I don't think there's really anything controversial in there just um you know the cash management manage management plan basically lays out for us what we can put our cash into when we have excess cash that's the way I I was gonna I was gonna vote Yes so if we have the votes we could pass it yeah I'm not Wile the only question I had was um and and unfortunately didn't have an opportunity to speak to Mr gross before um he went away but um just wanted to understand and ask the question are all of the institutions or are there any CH or the same or are there any changes from what we have previously done but again if the majority of my colleagues are comfortable moving forward with these votes because there's perhaps a statutory requirement I'm fine with that I don't I don't have any any objection I offer a motion to approve um to hyphen 24 um we'll do the second one that's Madam Madam clerk for the public sake that's the authorizing the temporary budget uh councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford yes motion passes um yes oh I'm sorry no I just said yes go ahead I'm sorry okay offer a motion to uh approve uh three hyen 24 resolution authorizing the cash manage cash management plan for 2024 sorry second councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman scorpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford yes motion is carried thank you council president before we um move toward an adjournment of this meeting we had indicated a recess of the December 19th meeting until the January I I think the next date um do we W to change right to the 23rd do we want to now change that to the new date of this meeting so that we can continuation we do not okay we do no because I have to speak with John gross about certain resolutions that are going on that agenda and he will not be back in time so okay thank you madam CL you're welcome all hearts and Minds clear any councilwoman calino so just to be just for the clarity of the public and it's late so the next meeting is the 17th in coun in council chambers correct at six o'clock and so that means we also will not do any type of the ceremonial activities that we postpone to that next meeting as well that's why I'm asking correct I have a question I'd like to know oh go ahead I'd like to know if we could oh go ahead no I'm I'm okay I was just gonna I'm asking Madame Clark I mean since we're going to be in person and that's our next inperson meeting is it possible for us to at least move our swearing in ceremony ceremonial ceremony and to to the next meeting so that we're in order that's all I'm asking that makes sense well I I know it makes sense but does does that mean you have to have public comment then because you're not continuing the meeting anymore that would be my you are continuing the meeting you're just adding that to the agenda but I I would leave it as is I would leave it for the 23rd Bas on councilwoman castelino just said you don't you know we're not going to add to the agenda that we already have so we're just recessing this meeting to continue it on the 17th I have a question i' I'd like to make a motion to take the vote on 3924 because we have so many people on tonight that really want to see that they may not that's okay I think we should do it because a lot of people are on and want and really would like to hear our our delivery well unless we have a second I mean I was willing to Second it but I I how much uh battery does The Count Council Williams have I mean that's that's the problem she said and it's it's only it's not even it's a week away I I I I I'm I'm I'm appealing to my colleagues I really am I have had no battery power for five hours you all overheard my husband come in and say that we're in a dire situation so I am appealing to my colleagues to give us an opportunity to digest this information and reconvene next week and for me to be able to regroup I have no power I have no capacity to don't think it's gonna take that long though I'd like us to take the vote tonight Council motion I have a question councilwoman Michael didn't councilwoman Williams already make a motion that and wasn't it properly seconded isn't the meeting over now I we all appeal to her because of her situation so I don't know how we can go back and have another motion if someone can just explain there a motion to reset um until the 17th we did not moot we didn't actually recess the meeting yet I'm not in favor of of doing doing it tonight out of uh concern for councilwoman Williams and and other concerns well we have there is a motion on the floor um is there a second as as much as I like to get it done I I I I did hear yeah I think we should let her get off the phone yeah and I I do want her to be part of the conversation same here so have not having a second uh uh I offer a motion to uh recess second all in favor I I any opposed the motion carries listen thank you guys this was uh quite a first meeting of the year um I want to thank you guys for your patience thank you West Orange thank you clerk thank you Administration um good night council president I just have a very quick question and I'm pardon the interruption um shall I not post this meeting online until we conclude it with the 17th that's correct okay so I will wait to the 17th rather than fragment these meetings and it will be posted uh following the conclusion of the 17th which is actually the conclusion of this meeting I'm not sure I understand that but I'm sleeping T typically uh council president at the end of this meeting I would post the meeting on on okay now I understand I got it so I would wait to combine this with the uh meeting from the 17th before and then I would post it as the council meeting of the 9th 17th yep got it thank you sir okay thank you and you're gonna post you're GNA post it as the meeting of the night not the 17th because the meeting on the 17th is continuation of this meeting okay but just for clarification I would wait to the conclusion of the 17th before posting this meeting okay correct thank you yesk thank you for your clarification I appreciate you guys I hope you have a great night I think we're done right that's it thank you night West Orange good night stay safe everybody night good night --------- [Music] [Music] [Music] a [Music] do we have to do all of the on yes yeah I would do that and then the roll call okay Madam clerk this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section 5 of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman castelino present councilwoman gber Michael present councilwoman Scarpa present councilwoman Williams presid council president Rutherford here so the last meeting we completed the public comment portion the first public comment portion um and we moved on to well we did approve two resolutions but we did not do the consent agenda so I don't know if that's where you want to start this evening yes uh Madam clerk that's where we should start okay colleagues are you looking to pull anything well let me Pledge of Allegiance oh I'm sorry yes will everyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledgees all right now I have to review the consent agenda and then we'll get to the resolution okay um approval of minutes of previous meeting public meeting December 5th consent uh report of Township officers none reading of petitions and Communications and bids none there are no bills uh are any resolutions being pulled this evening uh yes yes councilwoman Cel I'm not ready yet just need one second to get [Music] this I have 9-24 nine yep 11 das24 12-24 um 14-4 and 16-24 uh 17-24 and um see no there's another one oh 25-24 and I have a question on 31-24 I ask you now are wait no let's get all of them and then we'll uh councilwoman Williams uh 9:24 in addition one it pulled 1124 it's been pulled yeah that was already pulled I'm sorry not 1124 I'm sorry what was the last one 13 24 1 1 91 okay 9 11 13 now yeah yeah 12 was those pulled yeah 9 11 12 13 14 16 17 and 25 that's all I have right now 16 17 yeah and 25 okay Council massino yes so I need um oh Sho uh I need what was it [Music] 30 I just want to make sure the numbers the same on on this agenda yeah the the agenda hasn't changed I need um 34 and 35 34 and 35 okay uh councilwoman scraper uh they've already been calleded on I have concern okay Madam clerk I'd like to pull 39 on this one that's the updated one is that it I hope so anything left yeah okay we've already voted on two and three yes so let me just review 924 11 12 13 14 16 17 25 34 35 and 39 correct and 31 has a question but we'll do that that one after we take the um we go on arrest okay is there a motion to approve the consent agenda so move second second all in favor I any opposed the consent agenda is implemented um let's oh so councilwoman if you wanted to ask your question can you review show you [Music] 11 14 16 17 25 34 35 39 so I don't know Mr gross or chief if you're going to answer this question for number 31 the resolution set the interest rate and penalty to be charged for Del liquate tax payments yes um I'm just wondering if that amount is standard and it's similar to other municipalities you're charging okay just wonder thank you okay so council president before we go further can I is that something that we set every year yes it's required to be set every year um and and this has been you know it's the same um criteria that we've always used and frankly as what most municipalities do has it has it has it been 6% for some time yes yeah and so it's not interest rates sensitive meaning the market rates it's it's six or 18 and depending in so those are the two choices we have yeah it's a b it's not a okay so we can't choose what we said we choose that's set by Statute but the the amount the the amount of cancellation and you you you could choose you there are some I have to go back and reread the statut it's been a long time um since I've read the statute I think there may be some options you know in there but the but the rates themselves I believe are are the statutory rates either six or 18 okay thank you okay council president the first uh resolution pulled was uh 9-24 resolution authorizing the execution of a Professional Services agreement with Richard tran tran Isabelle sadiki and shanian in Livingston New Jersey to serve as Township attorney and other members of the Tran Isabel firm to assist him at his Direction at no additional cost for non-litigated matters and for which the firm is not hired a special Council for 2024 at the ratees specified in the agreement and Council woman gber Michael pulled that yeah I pulled it because you know I I don't support this resolution especially because we're currently pending litigation I'm not sure why this was placed on the agenda where you know we're waiting for the judge's decision now um so I I just I don't I don't think it's um proper to have it on here so I I don't support this resolution J One sure so um I I respect that councilwoman but the judge did order that we proceed as usual and um Mr gross were there any other were there any other uh any other person put in for this position no for this contract no one on you know the on the rfqs there were no other um applicants for this position so so my other situation is too with this um members of this firm have been no one has a problem calling them and we want to do some recent ordinances a lot of work and you know Mr jingar has been doing phenomenal work with the uh tree ordinances that you guys have on the leaf blowers other ordinances o Oprah so I is I feel you know we're not going to even win this case because of past practice so I'm supportive of this resolution tonight colleagues anyone else want to weigh in if I can piggy back off what she said yes the judge did give an order to show cause until she gives a decision she's not ordered us to accept any contract nor does she have the authority to do so because we're elected officials and legislative branch checks and balance in government so we are waiting for her decision doesn't mean we have to approve this contract she never gave us that order he's allowed to work for her order until she comes to the decision because State statue deems you need to have a contract and yeah I believe it was status quo is what she said well cool she did not make a decision to no status on this left M gavl oh you left your gav I don't a gav yeah um so what I think we should do I I appreciate thank you the opportunity for both of you to respond and I think we should do that in real time I just want to wait let one finish and be recognize for the second one that's it she's my response to yeah no and I respect that but I just wanted to I kind the same I don't think we should have um any contract until the lawsuits settled um I disagree with the comments that have been made the judge's order uh was to restore status quo until her decision and so with status quo we are required statutorily to have a Township attorney um so while I do respect the fact that we need to wait for her decision um I think that the modification should only be so that we are compliant is that if a decision is made contrary uh to the judge's ruling which is to restore the status quo um at that point we can revisit and perhaps even terminate or put out for a bid again the contract but if this is the normal time that we renew this either we will continue to have uh the township attorney continue to work without a contract or we do this pending a decision from the judge um but I think statutorily we are required to have legal representation for the township and so we have to make a decision either we continue with status quo not address this contract or we continue address this contract so that we are compliant until um a decision is made by the judge but I'm not willing to put our municipality at risk not having the statutory requirement of legal representation I think that's just un un sensical not even that that's a word but that doesn't make sense to me so I appreciate you your comments councilwoman all all of you um the way I understand the judge's order status quo meant what we were currently doing um it does not status quo is that the town Town Council approves contracts um he did not have his contract approved he was working without a contract when she said continue status quo that meant continue working without a contract um and also we are not putting the municipality at risk uh because we still have a head of legal department who's a full-time employee being paid with benefits to do that job uh so we still do have a Township attorney we just are not giving a an agree a contract uh to The Firm to do the work uh or the ability for that firm to continue to um take on cases for the township that contract was voted down last year um and this should not be on here until it shouldn't have been on here at all um and if the judge had ruled uh by now and decided that uh the lawsuit had Merit and that the mayor's side would Prevail then it would be perfectly appropriate to try again uh but that has not happened the the judge has not ruled in spite of the fact that we were expecting the ruling by now and I do expect it to come any day um but had that happened and she had ruled in the mayor's favor then perhaps it would be appropriate to present this again since that has not happened I think it's inappropriate I won't support it either so I have a question council president sure so my question is again Mr jenero the uh this past week is you know is T is working with residents on a tree ordinance so you know it's it's not appropriate to prove this contract or that firm but it's appropriate to have these ordinances like have him work on these ordinances so again it's contradicting you know of of one thing that's in play and these ordinances came from my Council colleagues not from the administration so on one hand you want him to work on these ordinances on the other hand so you don't want to give them a contract I find of problematic at this point councilwoman I I understand how that um sounds but that is actually not accurate we were required to use um the services that Mr trink provides based based on the judge's order had had the judge not allowed the status quo to continue until she ruled um Mr Jenaro would not be working on those cases because he doesn't have a contract and that is a risk someone takes uh and I'm not displeased with Mr Jenaro at all uh but that is the risk someone takes when they work for a firm if the firm does not have a contract and the partners in that firm are directing work their way that is a risk that they are taking and that's a calculation that he's going to make based on you know the full set of facts that he has it would be my um I would prefer that we not use Mr Jenaro or anyone from the Tren shanian firm because the contract was voted down that would be the preference that should be what's going on now what happened in spite of the contract being voted down the mayor decided to try and force us to award that contract which is exactly what she said in the lawsuit I want the judge to compel to award a contract to the train firm that I think cannot stand I think if she did that it would upend every faulnak town in the state of New Jersey because every single one of those Mayors would have some legal support for stating the C the Town Council has to award a contract to whomever they want I think that's a poor way of doing business we have the fauler act for a reason we've chosen to be organized this way and I think we should honor that um so while it is a difficult situation for us and for Mr Jingo and anyone else that's a part of the trink firm it's a situation that we're in because the mayor is forcing us or trying to force us to give a contract to that firm okay well we'll have to wait and see what the court proceedings of bring um and I respectfully you know disagree but totally understand um it's time for the vote okay on 9:24 councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael no councilwoman Scarpa no councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford no oh you know what I'm sorry we didn't do a motion in a second there was no Motion in a second that's fine sorry so I'll move to pass 3 uh is there a second second okay and I'll do the roll call again just for accuracy councilwoman castelin yes councilwoman gber Michel no councilwoman Scarpa no councilwoman Williams yes council president wford no he the motion fails um 1124 resolution authorized ing the execution of a Professional Services agreement with Fox Roth's child marown New Jersey to serve as labor Council for the township for 2024 at the rate specified in the agreement councilwoman gber Michael yeah I pulled this um because I think we need to find a new law firm um they are very expensive I think that with all of these contracts we should have a not to exceed Clause um because I I asked for the bills thank you Chief and to um Paula who's able to get them to me Fox Rothchild build us $290,000 last year and that's not even all the bills for last year that's one firm right and Trent's firm was 370,000 average last year we still don't have the bills from November or December so we we've got to do something where it's a lot of spending on all these attorneys and it's the same firms we've been using over over and over each year our tax paying dollars are going towards um and the hourly rate has increased from $200 an hour from last year to 225 so I am not in favor of this contract and do plan to vote no um yeah that's my stance on Fox Roth chat anyone else want to waigh in councilman yeah yeah I um basically feel the same way I think you know we've had the same firms for so long the the fees seem rather High I think we should more competitively bid out the legal services thank you councilman I to ask what a more competitive bid out would be councilman um so ongoing to I again I my I've been always supportive of this firm I'm been disappointed the past year or so with some of the way the negotiations went and uh unfortunately I can't support this firm this year so I just wanted I'm sorry to Blindside uh the administration I didn't get a chance to talk to the mayor about it but um did a lot of thinking about it and uh I I was not happy with um some of the negotiations of of recently um and I'll leave it at that thank Council Council thank you I just wanted to understand before we um EX this um opportunity for this vendor what was the um request did we have any other applicants for labor Council and if we do um who are they well the RP submissions were provided to councel so I don't Paul together so Paula didn't include in the packet any other applicants and we didn't get who applied we didn't get that information we were just only presented with the information on who we are awarding here's a grade that was provided week with everyone and I believe you gota Google it we've been getting here with so many emails I I I found two emails today that can certain I wish please resend that so because I missed that too yeah I missed it too I mean we have a for those that don't know two or three thousand emails on particular but get it to you I would recommend if you have questions on this or any of them is table it and that way we'll get you the information because we have two issues that obviously I think you should take into consideration one there are active matters yeah they disciplinary matters and again the chief and Mr Rose can can speak to that so the problem is if you vote it down and of course I am going to tell them immediately tomorrow seiz allil Services because we're not gonna have them working without obviously I will tell them that the problem is they're involved in active matters yeah that means those matters will default or and Prejudice the town so I recommend you table it we'll get you a list of the active matters was certainly all the RP submissions the rates anything else you want um and then again I would suggest that you know that the uh cler put an executive session on for next uh council meeting and that that way we could talk about the act of litigation which would be a matter of EX I I one one second one second so Mr trink it's my understanding that um it is possible for us to um allow some transition period for Fox Roth Tri to offload uh some of those cases uh that need to be offloaded or wrap up the cases that are close to being wrapped up yeah I think the council is supportive of that I don't I don't know that we need to extend a contract for a year to do that yeah no I'm saying as soon as the next council meeting I just we have to start with what they have then we have to find who's the alterate or option so that's the choice would you rewrite the resolution where they work on finish up the cases they currently have and no new cases can you do that though even though the RF okay isn't Anon cancer a labor firm so traditionally and I yield to my colleagues over here who deal more with the labor count State a than I do um so traditionally uh Mr Rivera who's the West R resident Ramon Rivera has handled the negotiations the way again to Mr R and Mr AB do this Mr Smo so they Ramone Rivera has traditionally handled all the collective bargaining negotiations um Mr rosenberg's for Fox World tribe has handled discipline um and that's kind of done for a reason yeah because you you know sometimes you obviously the labor force is critical and one of the great assets of this town um so Rosenberg is kind of handle the discipline um and uh Mr Rivera's handled the negation all right so what what I think the council is willing to do is provide an offramp for Fox Rothchild um I don't know that we have to table this in order to do that and and if we don't have to table it in order to provide an offramp I don't want to um so is it required in order to provide some transitionary period for the firm that we table it no I guess the issue is offramp I need an onramp so that I think that I think that if you wanted to say hypothetically and we can amend the resolution as you choose that this award will only be to March 31st or February whatever date you've P then between now and then you got to have an onr so that's what I need your assistance on by getting all the submissions looking at the rates giving whatever input you want and and then I can't transition do I have a new person but I I can we can start that process but I need a new person so so what is what type of respectfully say that the because of the volume of matters involved here that probably a 90-day transition period um you know obviously we would strive to do it as quickly as possible but you know I think this could take I think we can do the increments because I'm not again I don't think the professionals want to be in limbo any more than you do so so so again maybe the compromis is hypothetically to say March 31st because if we didn't get a lot of submissions and if you're not comfortable giving all the labal work again we have to consult the mayor under this form of government she has a role in this but if if you're not comfortable with the submission we can go back out if if the mayor agrees and see if we get other resumes you know what I mean we can do you know and again if anybody has recommendation as any professionals that they want to recommend for labor or anything I I beg you encourage them and and and to put in their resumes we did not get a lot of submissions this year um and one one of the things we try to do is you know that we haven't done well in the past is get these before you as thoroughly in the year as possible as opposed to have but again so depending on what the council is comfortable with I think maybe the compromise is say March 31st and then that way at the next meeting we'll get a list you'll look at it if we need to go back out again we'll go back out again and then um we'll we'll work through so how would we word that so we would have to amend this current resolution to just say affected January 1 through March 31 I think it's simple and that way they'll know it's going to expire March 31st unless there's some other decision made in the interim and then in the interim we'll try to work through the process and no new no new cases assigned well the only problem with saying no new cases because I have no idea you know I get calls on weekends in the middle of night saying we've got so if a labor matter arises then you don't have somebody has handle and if if there's no other lawyer appointed but but again I'll keep you breast and we can talk about this every two weeks or or more frequently until we resol is a 90-day transitionary period I'm fine with that Council yeah no we got a last year we had four three labor Council different firms so I'm okay with that but don't we have another labor Council well he's what the counc president said Mr Rivera at the anali caner firms but they had hando collective bargaining so the question is do we want to merge the two or can they handle it so I think that's something you can evaluate yeah and that's actually a mayor decision she'll present to us and we'll say yes or no yeah um councilwoman Williams no comment all right so I'm I'm fine with amending uh 1124 to add a a 90day or March 31st deadline 90 days I think is is is better so be period January 1st of 2024 through December 31st 2024 so I think you're right that's where you would change to 9 days day would be I guess April 15 so so we read in number one therefore a Township hereby retains the services of council to serve as labor and employment Council for the for a 90day period beginning January 1 well can I just ask the municipal cerk when is our council meeting in April because I would like you to do yeah that night it's okay that way sure um we don't have a I don't want to be without labor Council no April April 9th and April 22nd so one of those April 10th let's say okay perfect so January 1 2024 through 90 days that's a little is about a little L 90 from today it's certainly more it's about 100 days from January so I think it's we want to everybody wants to get it resolved need April okay second I second his motion okay um on second all right councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president ruber yes and you know again one of the points was made with about the race again I welcome you uh we have and M Rose Has Done independently but anybody can do it in the community or on the council we've looked at rates throughout the county and again for special labor Council to be at two a quarter that's the low end is market so again it's not again it's about the Quantum of work and and it's you know as you have other bills that you look at all the time it's hard I recognize to look at professional bills but the rate is the reasonable and probably lower than the market but you Mr trink one of the one of one of the things I and I'm not speaking for my colleagues here but one of the things I'm trying to um get my head around is why we don't have a full legal department here when I look at the bills even at 225 an hour you know if we hired someone for 150,000 a year and another one for 120 another one for 80 you're looking at 350,000 for three full-time employees that could probably take half of the work that we're farming out off of our plate so I'll be glad to and again I think it's it it's fair game to analyze it I will tell you what we found in the past and again you can talk to any other town in this area and see their experience war is like Menace it's highly specialized for the most for so to say that a way where we do hypothetically what tax if you to say that you know I mean there's some general areas you know there certain and there some bigger buckets as well so if we covered you know 40 or 50% of the type of law that are regularly presented uh to the township with full-time employees I think we come out over the long term sure sure surely that first year we're going to take a hit but then the subsequent years we should be able to save money well again it the devil's always in the details we can explore anything it's fine it's fine I I recommend and if if if there's a serious consideration to doing that then I recommend that the council consider creating a subc commmittee and let's look at other towns and their experience that's the right way to get educated because I'm telling you other than I'm not really sure there's you know other than a major town like the city of New York that has an inhouse legal department there are not none of this none of the Suburban town in s County have full-time inhouse besides the fact as I'm sure John gross is itching to say pension uh all the other things that comes with employees full time my view is always what the goal should always be is to get you know we want to get the best competent representation for the town because we're obviously all and I will tell you John gr submitted and he can C in he went out looked at legal budgets for every town can and ours is near the very bottom so we're we're averaging about a million a year right which is cheap compared to any Town look up your school people go see the school district I heard c g m m again that is a that's a third of that budget and again my bills are available for every member they op it everybody has right we should have bills I welcome anybody to and find a way to get it cheaper all right thank you Mr TR I mentioned what council president is bringing up to you now last year but why don't we have an in-house legal team so you we bring up a good idea about a committee but yeah I think it's worth looking at and evaluating Council yeah I just wanted to add in for my experience we did have a full-time uh uh attorney at the school board uh and he did a great job for us Mr Christiano and then the you know School Board went to um AFF firm and because they they wanted more of a specialized um Services I mean but even when Mr Cristiano was there and again he did a great job for us his specialty with a special education um uh cases but again we had to go out for labor attorneys and other Specialties so that that I think a good analysis to put your minded these is worth the due diligence I think it should be done but I think you're going to find in the end it's you know with the bennies and everything else this way is probably G to be the way you're gonna but it's good to go through the exercise yeah because theoretically it doesn't make sense to me um again look go see what the school board spends in their budget Madam cler is there a motion to approve 1124 as amended didn't we do that no that was we did the amendment oh okay second councilwoman celino yes councilwoman debor Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president rer yes okay so uh just as a reminder um Mr gross uh Mr Abbott uh we want not to exceed CLA in in these um you guys can figure out what an appropriate number is um but that's a way that we can stay in informed of you know how we're how much we're spending uh as we as we go mam clerk okay uh resolution 1224 resolution authorizing Phillips price greel heny Hughes in Hoboken to provide planning director services for calendar year 2024 at the rate specified in the agreement councilwoman gab Michael so yes I pulled this uh same I pulled it last year too because again the this resolution reads director and he's not the planning director Mr gross agreed with me last March that he is a consultant not a director um and because the Administration has agreed to hiring a full-time planner um I'm voting no on this contract and maybe we can amend it to do similar what we did with Fox Rothchild and maybe have a go for 90 days have them finish working on whatever uh project she has because again the township of our size we're basically a city we have over 50,000 residents now since the census and um you know census is at 48,000 and change we're definitely over 50,000 you know we don't get a complete count um we it's I don't understand why we don't have a full-time planner Mount Clair is much smaller than we are not only do they have a full-time planner they have a full-time Deputy planner and it's crucial that this municipality has one um and so for this reason I'm voting no on this contract thank you colleagues yeah I basically I'm voting no as well everybody knows I've been asking for a full-time planner now since I got here so I'm not going to beat a dead horse so so Mr GLE who is who is very well known and has his credentials should have nothing to do with this because he he does a great job for us Bloomfield has them as their consultant as well bloomfields is about the same size as us in fact they're involved in more Redevelopment projects than than we have going on right now uh I've always been an advocate to give Mr gle's firm more time Administration always said they they would um I have not seen it happen yet and so that's been disappointing so I could see my colleagues wanting the full-time planner so I mean I'm happy with the services but not happy with the amount of services I think we need him and he can supply someone inhouse to us um during the week it wouldn't be him but of someone from The Firm to go over because I do I do feel we need that pair of eyes uh in the department uh because the department is short staff to begin with and a lot going on there so I'm supportive of him but with providing more services for us which would be more cost effective than a full-time planner because of the bennies and whatnot so um again I'm going to vote for this tonight but yet I want to see him being utilized differently and if we go to a full-time planner you know I would be all right with that too but again I I do think he does a great job for us uh we just don't utilize them enough counc so I have a couple of concerns um back to the legal department not utilizing a full-time planner and awarding this contract puts us at what type of risk um it is required that we have a planner when we have our zoning board and planning board meetings so if we do not have him in that capacity um what would we revert back to again I think there's I specific with my understanding and again a yield to the chief of staff or or business ad minist is that Janice Gary Adams is our plan director she is our plan so I changed this this year to just say he's providing planning services this is not it says director yes it does I'm sorry can me show you I welcome you to show me as long as you you know just explain to me what I was very clear if you look at the bottom of the first page it's resolved that it's authorized to attach for a professional service contct cont with the Phil firm so again if there's somewhere in here that it says he need's a plan director page Mr Right There planning direct said no no but councilwoman it doesn't say it says it says his C is required to have a planning director it doesn't say he is being picked for that position okay I apologize and we can certainly word Smith it and if you told me you think it's misstated I apologize you know why because I was on the last planning board meeting in which his name tag read planning director I wasn't and again I asked the business administ I'm sure would change it but this contract that is before you that is a simple professional service contract he's not to make him PL D so if you want to clarify that in here I'm going to say is not to be PL because he's not that's we we agree on that Mr TR he is a consultant I think the challenge is we have um a a history of dealing with the full-time planner it was promised under a prior Administration it was promised last year and it didn't happen and now that we have a job listing out and we are and I'm glad the Administration has U made those efforts and and done the work to get one what was that two resumes two rumes have already come in hopefully some more will um now that we are in that in down that road I think is important for us to be clear uh in this action that we're committed to going down that road I I don't want to muddy the waters uh one of the conversations I had uh regarding this was how are you seeking a full-time planner uh who's going to be an employee when you have a very well-known and I don't have any problem with the work the quality of his work is excellent I have no problem with him as a professional I I don't think he's been utilized well I support uh what my my colleague has said with regard to what has been given to him um but how would you have a full-time employee yeah working with a a a part-time consultant who at least the way I read it too would have been the director um obviously you're not going to have a full-time employee reporting to a part-time consultant so I understand the clarification and I appreciate the clarification but I do think we're committed to this Pathway to get a full-time employee and I think the reason we are is we've seen the benefit of having a full-time employee and a consultant when we last had a full-time employee regardless of where you fell in your politics or how you felt about different issues in town people generally thought she did an outstanding job um she knew the town as well or better than anybody else she was able to kind of coordinate things within town in a way that uh only someone who is intimately familiar with the town can and that's what we're hoping to accomplish with the full-time planner uh someone who knows this town well who lives and breeds what we're doing here whose first priority is West Orange and so to to pass this I think muddies those Waters now I do think we need to provide some off-ramp as well I don't know if you can hold them over on a month-to-month basis if if not then let's amend the resolution to provide some time um so that we can we can you know transition away from what he's been doing to a full-time planner I don't think my question was ever answered which was what happens if we don't have um a planner at the zoning board and planning board meetings he it was answered what he said was Janice Gary Adams is our planning director not our professional that is required to be so that's what I'm ask well she can she attend those meetings she does she does but but requ there's also a requirement of having a planner and so if we don't have anyone then we we will not benefit from having those services so I would recommend that we do the same type of amendment until we have a replacement that we continue to retain his services so that we can make the best decisions we have tremendous amount of applications on both boards and I would not want to compromise the Township's position or not have one to serve in that capacity again all of us have continued to State um that we're not disappointed with the Mr GLE Services we just wanted um more so that so that we would have better outcomes and so until we retain someone different I I think it's necessary that we do this contract as and until we find a replacement thank you Council coun Council so here's where I'm confused with the administration so if you have and and chief you need to hear this so if you have uh someone that you named as planning director inhouse but yet you're going outside to hire a full-time planner and then we obviously we need the consultant to stay in place for a little bit so so like where is how does the organizational chart work because because again now I see different roles and the whole issue that I've been hearing you could save a lot of money the whole whole issue that I've been hearing is disconnecting the dots so we you know one pair of eyes on everything seems to be the issue all things planning as opposed to it being chopped up and that's where the disconnect in any one of your departments we ever had issues with is when you have you know too too many people overseeing the same thing something gets missed because one person thinks the other person is doing it so again I know I hear you I know you want but now you have a a in-house director how you plan on making this fluid so so let me there these are two different positions two different sets of responsibilities you have a director of Planning and Zoning that's a that's our from an organizational point of view in a civil service town you have you have a limit of nine departments that is one of our departments and each department has a director that's that is the position that's buil inhouse the the planner with a capital P is a different position that's a different professional uh responsibility that that could be done by those two jobs could be done by one person and in fact it was at one point in time done by one person um but it does not have to be done by one person it can be done by two and so if if however understand that that the director is responsible for the Department you know the operations of the department the planner is responsible for Professional Services aspect uh particularly of the services given to our citizen boards Etc as But but so so there's a table of organization and and that's so the person that after the plan is done plan and meeting is over and the plan goes on its merry little way up upstairs um who is enforcing that all the recommendations from the planning board whether it's a uh to get the CO to make sure that they're implemented year after year for certain requirements whose responsibility is that on mostly the the zoning officer uh there are some during the during the the process of um plan review the planner uh will will have some some role in that but frankly it is not on most in most cases it's not the Planner on a day-to-day basis that does much to that okay so now you're gonna hire a full-time planner what what is that per so again who's going to get that task of making sure that that uh that folder is complete it's it's check that all the requirements were done because from what I hear and I understand everyone's concerns year after year that is where we it keeps coming back so if there's this disconnect between you're going to hire somebody else and internally I I mean sometimes when there's crossover it the job doesn't get done that's where I'm worried about so the administration doesn't necessarily endorse this we know that the the the the the majority of the council would like to see the a full this done by full-time planner involved um if I were at I'll just speak for myself if I was adding staff to this department that's not where I would add the staff where would you add it I think I would add staff to take the you know we have a number of people within the department quite frankly they're they're being asked to do uh the work of more people than we have and and so whether it be in inspections and or uh otherwise um you know on a day-to-day basis I I would consider that um a better solution to this see see I'm not done councilman so so so here's the thing that I have issue with and and I hear you with all of this but we are short inspectors and I know our director of Planning and Zoning has to go out to do inspections which is insane so I would like to see us fix that plug that hole give Mr gel more time so he could send that person in during the week and then let's see where we're at are you done now I'm done so this is um a circular argument we were presented with a budget that had a 16% property tax increase or lay off 150 people and in that process we had to make some very difficult decisions about open positions promotions and new Hive right and that's a that's an issue because of the budget so when the and Miss Gary Adams sat somewhere down there and said to us and she said it to at least me since then she needs inspectors we need an engineer and we need a bunch of other things and I don't disagree I know that that is the case but we budgeted $150,000 a year for four years in a row for a full-time planner for four years in a row that's $600,000 that's let me finish that we budgeted and we budgeted four years in a row $150,000 for a full-time planner and did not hire one this current mayor was supportive of a full-time planner in her her campaign to become the mayor and what she told the people that she that ultimately voted for her was that she would do that and then we get in and she does not do that and so now the council is saying we agree with you mayor we agree with the prior mayor who originally put it in the budget for 150,000 we agreed with the prior Council that supported having a full-time planner and now it is time to act on that now we absolutely need inspectors we absolutely need Engineers DPW is decimated police we need more cops we need people in town hall in almost every Department we're not going to get there overnight part of what we've done tonight is try and get a handle on some of these legal fees which are a real expense part of what we're trying to do tonight is to get at least one person who can coordinate all of these uh activities around development in town and all of the different boards that have to have weigh in on the different projects that we do and can help not just with our master plan but making sure that uh all of the uh developments around town are not just thinking about what we've already done but what's coming next what the current issues are we know we've got flooding issues everywhere just like many other towns we're facing issues with global warming we've got trees that are being cut down we've got roads that need to be repaired other infrastructure issues we need someone who can take the time to get their hands around all of that and asking a consultant to do that who is going to have multiple clients in multiple jurisdictions I think is not in our best interest we've gone down a pathway now for decades where we've limited the amount of stuff that our employees do and increase the amount of stuff that we Farm out to contractors or vendors and I think we've got to pull some of that back so my support for this is for those reasons um I'm happy to have the conversation and Mr gross has assured me we're going to have the budget early this year um I don't mean before the it needs to be but we're going to have the budget in the March uh time frame um we should be intentional about where we're going to apply resources so that we can begin to rebuild some of these places inspectors are critical Engineers are critical dpw's critical police are critical um a couple of departments don't need as much help but but most of them need a lot we're going to have to make some some some tough decisions about where we put the money and where the money is going to come from but this is something I think we need to do now especially with all the big development that is anticipated so um council president if I can just sure and then Mr trink clarify one point that you made um the the existing budget and budget in a few years past set aside $150,000 for Consultants or a consultant for planning and economic development not not a full-time employee of any title so just to be clear as of right now yeah well that job this year that it was the monies that were put side was for a consultant not for a full-time so that's an important distinction because if you were decide to you know the the process of of moving from consultant to employee is a budgetary will be part of the budgetary process that you'll have deal with so so C I think your idea is the right one M TR can you speak into your microphone I I think your idea of making a turn on 30 days month to month I think is how you phrased it practical matter that makes sense because hopefully you get a rockstar resume make an offer they're going to have to give two weeks notice you're probably going to want to have some overlap you give the notice you know what I mean I think as a practical man that's that's that makes sense you do it month you can me cancel on 30day no I just want to give a little history lesson so the reason why um that position wasn't filled for the consultant because we did we did pass that is because again Co hit and when Co hit folks were not able to pay their ta property taxes at year a lot of them so we were behind and Mr gross was doing all he could at the time before we got Co money started getting some of the co money in to to you know make sure we would get through the year and so we always forget about that so no I think the original year was 2019 when it was first put in the budget and then but the budget hit in 2020 when Co so and then people were not paying their taxes because they weren't working because they were home with covid so we always forget about the challenges that we have and make it look like we just don't do things for the heck of it there's always something behind why things didn't get done and it was always $150 $150,000 for a consultant which did not have the cost of the benefits included in that 150,000 we know a full-time planner all in is going to be what about two and a quarter or so with with Benny's and whatnot so again we have a wish list tonight that that listen I think the need is there no question about it um how we get there is you know we're that's that's where we're at um and I'm glad everyone does agree that that Mr gle's firm is more than confident to do it um because I think it's unfair to uh to present that otherwise but um yeah there's reasons why things don't get done not because we're just ignoring or or whatnot again uh you know Co hit us hard and we have to that's I I I do think we've debated this enough I want to close it by saying that may have been a reasonable um yeah reason for 2020 we're now in 2024 yeah so it didn't happen in 21 or 22 or 23 well to make up this so now I'd like to call for uh so so we're going to amend it do we have to amend this from the time standpoint or do we say month to month or or I think I think month to month wording is works I mean I would say it it I think the way you do is just say turnable on on 30day notice and then that inherently means month the month by whom by you by by by by Act of the council well that's well again again the that's here forner act so we're we're gonna you have that right but but if you want to specify it but but isn't that what your saying as soon as you get your full-time planner you want to offramp this contractor I think that's what you're saying or you may want to modify it can be whatever the decision is made or you can do like you did on on noav you can fix a date terminable and then hopefully will yeah my concern is if we leave it as is the it is up to the mayor to execute on that and what we're saying is we we don't want the mayor to decide to keep um GLE and someone else and split up those roles so um maybe go with the April 10th sck it all the same so you can let's do that keep that consistent so so we don't want the mayor to do her job okay so um just for uh sake of everybody here we have had quite a year and I think it last year was quite a year and we've started off with a very high level of intensity on multiple issues so that kind of commentary councilwoman is not helpful right it's just it doesn't move this at all it doesn't help us in the debate it doesn't add value to the debate it is merely a statement either to defend or to hurt someone else and I don't think that's your statement to hurt someone else so again this is the the kind of government that we set up like it or not that the no one is challenging no one is challenging the mayor's ability to do her job what we're trying to do is make sure that we do ours you just told her you just stated that you did not want to leave it up to her yes because we're making this is this is exactly why we stay here till 1 in the morning we are saying we want a full-time plan a full-time planner has now been promised for five years in a row we now at the first time in five years actually have a job listing out and responses in we don't want and we're committed to going down that road we don't want to do anything that allows us to get off of that road so we're on the road the mayor is going to choose whom the mayor chooses she's gonna present that person if it requires a contract if it's employee she is not right at the end of the day what we're saying is that is what we want full-time planner it has been communicated as clearly as it can be and that is our role that is our right that's our responsibility so um can we modify the time on this no but if I think the C presid expired on April 10th you did on the other one then yeah everybody's got the time line between now and then something have that either we have to bring we don't have a fulltime winner or someone who to do the job we have to bring it back and have to consider it on April 9 all right so so then there would be a 12 added on the last page this agreement will expire on 410 April 10 well it says here on page three number two and see that I'd look quickly service okay thank you April 10 on page three April 10 2024 thank you clerk welcome uh so I offer that Amendment okay Council W celino so you're voting on ad we're voting on The amend that way instead of doing separate all right so as amended councilwoman Celina yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president rord I have a procedural question how do we vote on it as amended if we don't vote on the amendment we didn't agree we didn't all I mean I'm certain that we all will but I'm just making sure procedurally we didn't agree to the amendment well again if if a friendly amendment is offered you could do it in two votes or one but unless there's someone who wants to vote against the amendment see the amendment will pass or we it can be done either way okay but if there becomes a debate on an amendment you're absolutely right Council then you would vote on the amendment first and they vot thank you for clarifying that for the record thank you okay 1324 resolution authorizing the execution of a Professional Services agreement with CME Associates in how New Jersey for Engineering Services for the township for 2024 at the rate specified in the agreement councilwoman will uh yeah councilwoman Williams yes I wanted to understand why this was backdated to January 1st all the other contractual Agreements are were executed um for January 9th the last meeting this was the only one that I saw different again unless someone else has a different again the the the intent of these contracts is that to the extent people did service from January 1 for if they you get paid understood but not all of them go are backdated to January 1 so there's a little bit of inconsist effective effective so again I don't think that was done intentionally see if you're looking at uh on page two that the uh the sign are you looking at the beginning of it I'm not sure that there was that that was done by design that may just be when people were signing it or what the date that was put on I actually put the date on the top because it was not legal intended legal intended I think Madam clerk was probably just putting them to the date the term is clearly January to December 31 unless you modified so the date they're effective is when you approve it and there s okay thank you I move for the acceptance of 12-24 we already did that it's 13 13 134 okay yeah I'll second that second councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford yes okay 1424 resolution authorizing a Professional Services agreement with pkf o Conor Davies in Cranford for appointment as the township auditor for the period January 1 2024 through December 31st 2024 at the rate of 50,000 57,000 per audit councilwoman gber Michael but before she goes to 14 can we are are we able to add not to exceeds to these again the short answer is I guess it depends on the contract and it depends on what what the CFO says so short answer is yes within the constraints of the numbers than what is needed okay um so Council mgber Michael pulled this I I wanted to pull it as well I'm happy to defer you but no you so um this is we're on 14 um this is for the auditor as um my colleagues will recall um councilwoman C uh Williams last year requested that the auditor um attend one of our Council meetings which I didn't think was necessary given what we were voting on uh but I'm very pleased that it happened um because in that meeting it was uncovered or revealed to us that um there was a at least one item that needed to be corrected uh with regard to our employment contracts and policies it was something that came from the state um the auditor acknowledged that he had received that communication uh and I think the First Communication came in 21 for 22 and then there was a second Communication in 22 for 23 and in both of those years the auditor did not list that as a corrective action and when he was asked about it he had very uh poor responses uh and there were other questions that were posed to him about the audit that night which uh he was unable to answer and I found that um unacceptable for me if you are an auditor and you are invited to answer questions uh to the Town Council based on the audit you should be able to answer those questions um and I can recall the I can't remember which question it was but I had to point him to where it was in the report that to me is unacceptable so I cannot support uh PK f o Conor Davies as our auditor this year um I think it's time for you yeah I have comments as well um I was very concerned also because I was the one who brought up a lot of those problems and those questions if you remember it was our November 8th meeting and for anyone who would like to view this and understand it better and see the full discussion of it um my comments are very much the same as as uh Council presidents I was shocked that Mr Bronco Anthony Bronco couldn't answer very basic questions about the audit I was very disturbed that some um problems were not put in the recommendation section and so for that reason I will be voting no too and I I actually urge uh people who want to understand it better to go to our November 8th meeting and view it in detail hi el I Council colleague sentiments I think we need a new auditor call for the vote I have a question didn't we have a different auditor last year uh the year before this like how many years have we used this auditor for I think this firm has been in in one form or another been for quite a long time however they rotate Auditors through you Pro so that every couple of years um there's a a new principle from within the organization these These are large firms so you so you get a different perspective um every every probably every two to three years okay yeah so they've been our our auditor for quite a while I think it started this is um this firm is the result of a merger of firms several years ago um and in in that merger we just maintained um the new FR um after the old firm was merged into the new firm so they they've been around for a while I do appreciate that they will rot principles whoever they rotated last year was probably not a good idea because that council meeting was very very um disappointing question hold on hold on yes is the heat on it's cold goes on and off yeah 20 degrees outside I'm not I'm not asking for the heat to go on on my behalf I'm fine thank you councilwoman's calling for the vote well is there a motion to approve resolution 1424 oh we didn't yeah that's right is there a motion to approve you know I have no can we move on okay motion fails motion fails is that how it works yeah there was no motion no motion to approve no motion to approve and no motion to table don't me do someone have an order we need to we need to put out an RFP or an RF or something to get one great there are tons in New Jersey I'm sure some Okay resolution 1624 resolution authorizing a Professional Services agreement with NW Financial Group to provide financial consulting services for calendar year 2024 at the rate specified in the agreement councilwoman gber Michael um the rates went up this year uh and I was just wondering if those are considered normal the two $235 per hour pment like this I I I would say that's probably low um for this I mean for for financial consultants um C it's certainly not high and I I would consider it to be either on between low and average but probably on the low side can I just ask what this Financial Consultant does what areas he's Consulting basically two areas I mean with Redevelopment uh we will sometimes use Financial Consultant to to do um uh reviews um some economic reviews of of potential developers um that not so much last year for this one um and on a on a regular basis they work with our when we do our financing of our bonds um we we use a and required to use a a Financial Consultant um to to prepare our um statements for um submission to Moody's or to S&P um on the on the financial um background of the town and and and our for our justification for going out to bonds so that in that sense they they are they are key in helping us uh find markets um that in in that that are economical for the township as well as in times when there's no or a limited market out there that helps create a market make sure that that we get investors so thank you um this is this is something that is ongoing on a regular basis we're just need to start preparing now um for a a um a spring uh issuance that we have coming up um and so we would that on that note Mr gross is can any of those responsibilities be handled by our bond count uh Council no has to be separate by law to be separate person separate entity well given our proximity to New York and how many Financial firms are around here there should it should not be difficult to find uh someone I am also concerned and I know that these are small numbers um in some in some folks uh opinion um but I am aware of where investment needs to happen in town and it is not with the vendors and it is a shame but we're not going to be able to get the the revenue we need if we don't find places to save some money so that we can invest in in town hall and I mean that RIT large I'm not talking about just this particular property I mean the Departments that that need that help um you know financial services this is we're we're 15 miles away from the capital of the globe with regard to financial services so where they charge a lot more per hour in New York I'm sure we can find someone at least I would hope that we can find someone and if I'm wrong then you'll represent NW Financial or it may pass um but um that would be my position as well councilwoman any other questions colleagues any other comments councilwoman can this in the meantime this if you're going if you're entertaining not approving this um if you could do the the same run out of the April 10th just because we're we are going to need Services through that period of time I'm with that my colleagues are fine with that you guys yeah yeah good April 10 okay so let's amend it um seeing that everyone has agreed to the the amendment already can we vote on it as amended uh Madam clerk yes or if there's a motion for I I offer the motion to vote on what is it 16 correct d24 has amended with the end date of April 10 2024 is there a second second councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Williams ruford yes I'm sorry it's okay it's not even late I'm losing well it's early in the year too so I'm stumbling over everyone's title tonight so sorry about that it's all right all kinds of things that is not an resolution 1724 resolution authorizing a contract between the township of West Orange and cgp andh for administrative agent services for affordable housing at the rate specified in the agreement councilwoman gabber Michael yes I pulled this because I noticed the uh numbers don't match up um you'll see in the one two 3 four fifth whereas Township will not exceed 15,000 250 and then if you go to the second page of the actual contract on the one two 3 fourth whereas Township will not exceed 11,300 so which is it are they not exceeding 11,300 or 15,250 yeah there's a typo in here somewhere a typo is it a typo it reads like a typo I could be wrong I like clarification I'd also like to point out that the township does not pay these bills these are paid these are paid by we need to get the right we need to get it right I'm not suggesting not but but this is not something that the township pays uh uh directly it it's money the monies that will be paid are financed by developers and again to the best of my recollection the number 11300 was the past year and the current year for both 15 250 but obviously we can confirm that right so if the plate safe should we amend the 11,300 to 15 yeah it's not to exceed so that that that makes all right so I make a motion did anybody object to 11 to moving 11 15 second do we need to confirm are you saying looks like a typo right but can we just instead of making the amendment can we just make the adjustment pending whatever the outcome is so that we don't amend this and well not to exceed basically does that so necessary to amend or just it not to exceed clarify amend it amend the not to exceed to the 15 yeah that way if it's we'll be able to get it it already says it on the front it already says it on the front so I'm asking do we need to admit the back side I think do because it says it will not exce asking thank you I would agree that we may it consist okay thank you so okay again I'd like to make a motion to uh revise the contract and change that will not exceed from 11,300 to match the first page which is 15,250 I'll second thank you okay councilwoman calino yes councilwoman gber Michel yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president left first yes okay and then is there a motion to approve as amended oh my you all spoke names out I'm later we moving along here okay councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president rord yes Okay resolution 2524 resolution authorizing the execution of a Professional Services agreement with Wayne Deo Warren Township New Jersey to serve as the Environmental compliance officer for the township of 2024 at the rate specified in the agreement Council woman get for Michael but before um councilwoman I defer to you yeah but yeah so Mr defo is here I think it's only fair to give him an opportunity to give us an overview of what he does in this role and how um how that role impacts you know our quality of life in in West Orange Mr defo if you don't mind good afternoon good evening I should say council president members um I suspect the first question being I would ask is do you have questions of me specifically that you would like answer in terms of what I can maybe clarify for you I can give you an overview but the same time if you have specific questions it might be more efficient for me so I I don't you know I've asked my questions of you directly um I have I will tell you I've uh had some um concerns raised about your role with regard to uh both the recycling center and West Essex Highlands um so if you could touch on what you do there specifically uh I think that would be helpful okay as far as the environment Center and the recycling center my job is to essentially respond to issues but also to provide two Monon inspections of the facility those inspections are essentially modeled after the Department of Environmental Protection inspections which are similar to what a state inspector would do in fact it's the same form for all practical purposes those reports are then summarized shared with the vendor of course if I see a problem I will say get this fixed get it fixed now the idea is that they'd be in compliance with State regulation over time they have issues if they are s say if there are issues we can issue more demands and make sure they're cleaned up also to respond to Citizen complaints as I have with you when your neighbors had an issue uh we went and did a tour I will do that respond to those tours explain the operation of the facility look for different things we've had complaints over the years as we would expect to have and I would go and ins inspect those complaints we've had noise complaints we've investigated we've had uh Rat complaints well the rat complaints actually from the apartment complex they had nothing to do with the site but we investigated and determined what the problems were essentially it's make sure the site's in compliance simplest way to put it make sure everything within the contract is held as far as West Asic Highlands that's a totally separate project that project initially started with with my working to try and help the township get the best deal working in negotiations to get a developers agreement for and that's not a legal term that's my term to agree to different elements in the development that would make it more sustaining and essentially the negotiation dealt and I did a presentation before this Council before on this issue where you had an old plan from 1999 to build over a 100 homes now you have Apartments but most of the land will be preserved so my first role was to help negotiate that and get the most we could get the second role potentially will be to ensure that the project meets the standards that are spelled out in the agreement doing the site inspections making sure I see an equipment list making sure I see a paint list down to that kind of detail because they are not allowed to use paints that have voccs in them that's just an example those inspections would take place on regular intervals additionally during of course the construction phase there are many conditions placed on the site and again if we go forward I would be asked to check and make sure they're in compliance very similar to if I was working on a lead building a lead certified building for example has a lead accredited professional who checks everything to make sure it's done right which I do for lead buildings this is what I would call I hate the use a term sometimes but it would be called lead light it will be built for the most part to the standards of a lead building but it will not be certified by a thirdparty outside certification Institute I would act as that third party certification Institute they won't get a letter or a certification but everything will be checked off in both cases I'm paid by the township of West Orange out of escrow funds created by both those entities so you are not in fact paid by the other entity directly you're paid only by West Orange only by West Orange so you're not being I got you and that that's clear to me um so one I I want to say one thing Mr defale mentioned um his work with me we had a bunch of residents in my neighborhood that were complaining about the recycling center and those complaints were ongoing for several months MH um and they there were several different complaints um and and I will say every step along the way you were responsive you made yourself available for all of the tours um and you addressed the um you agreed to address one issue that we've yet to present a plan on so that's not your fault or the recycling Center's fault that's our our issue and you have addressed uh the odor um that um you know people were complaining about so in that regard I will tell you um I will say for the record he's been responsive and forthright and helpful um certainly with those particular uh concerns and I will say professional because at least one member of the group whom I love um is not uh the most um tactful person in how they complain um but nevertheless you were a professional the entire time I thank you for that colleagues does anyone have a question or concern from Mr def yes ma'am yes thank thank you Mr defo for coming in this evening I know I had asked the chief a few questions that unfortunately um you know there there're sometimes rumored and and I think for the uh audience sake you need to uh I got to ask you them and and you need to present them so one for example councilman just addressed and that was um you getting paid directly by us and not uh what's that uh the Wolves correct correct all invoices are sent to West AR and that was part of the settl Mr TR could talk about the settlement agreement how that came to be why why that was part of the agreement if I'm not mistaken and um Mr de articulated correctly when we went to the special Master for years on the affordable housing and again former Council um kovak along with now mayor partney were on the committee ever SE the way this was under the court aices of getting What's called the Repose from uh Builders REM wall students so as that project was being discussed and was as as you're aware approved by the council and the court um the issue was exactly what Mr defo articulated it's how do we do everything possible to not just uh uh preserve but to try to restore the forest which he went out did a video and picture Montage presented it to the public so um so and and my recollection is that Mr defa worked in partnership with the womany Amy green environmental now used by the West Highway people when they sued US 20 years ago a long time ago so as you know we say people the conom minan association the association not the Builder not no no just I just want everything to be clear with the wils that resolved itself and was approved by this Council and by the court as part of the affordable housing litigation so again Mr de had one mastered one boss and that was this Township every step of the way um so that's Bally what you're saying okay so I walked into the presentation that was that was done in um on at the Willshire and I got to be honest with you I you know I didn't see the beginning and when I walked into the middle there was a lot of upset residents and again a lot a lot of folks were upset and they didn't like the way that whole presentation was handled or the situation uh again whether you're the messenger in that part of it or negotiate it uh on behalf of us uh I'm I'm not I just want to pull out what what was what um also on um in regards to the fencing that goes around someone mentioned to me you have ownership in a fence company and I know that's that's that that uh again I'll let you present to the public uh whether you do or not but um which you you told the Chief found out for me that you did not no that you don't have any ownership so I just want to make all those facts clear and fairness to to yourself um there's also been complaints about the Builder themselves like they're talked about in those woods there was a lot of debris and um where we had whether uh kids going through the in in the forest or people like you know uh put in tents there or debris in the those would have about debris from the Builder himself has any of that been cleared up in that in there there hasn't been any building activity up not not building but debris from so you haven't seen any other kind of construction debris most of which I would not mention what it is in here but a lot of it is from teenagers and I'll leave it to your imagination uh the debris has been cleaned up on multiple occasions it's from trespassers to private property so there isn't anything from the there is a m ER of the development I'm sorry at the bottom of the Woodland it's a dirt Rock Mound that was there I believe and I don't know for sure but I think it's from the prior construction of the Town Homes below it but that ho debris if you will call Rock and dirt debris will have to be removed if the thing is approved it goes forward because there'll have to be a rad through it but there's no building debris if you're asking me is there building debris construction debris I've walked through the proc property I've not seen any okay with one exception an illegal Motocross Trail was built by trespassers it was very very creative but that would be construction debris but it was not brought in by the Builder it was brought in by people trespassing on the property so trespassers okay and is there any other other situation that you could foreseen other than putting of fencing in that far is to save that fars I'm not true I understand so I believe the is that the deer fencing yes like why the need for that folks are so the answer to that is actually it's a little complicated I'm going to simplify we did a tree survey in that parest so the entire parest was surveyed by arists using statistical methods that you would do to figure out how many trees what types of trees and the health of the forest it is an unhealthy Forest while walking through it you might say hey this is a nice Forest there are lots of big trees that's the first signal it's an unhealthy Forest there are no little trees because the deer have eaten virtually everything that touches the ground the only plants growing as shrubs and such and I won't say to 100% but the majority of them are invasive plants plants that don't belong there and that's unfortunate Barberry is what's in there at the greatest level Barberry is an incredibly invasive and destructive shr is that you the the pretty purplish color yeah that pretty purplish color those are purple pigney barberries they're they're incredibly destructive there is a bill pending totally decept side to ban the sale of them in New Jersey but it hasn't passed and they they spread but deer don't eat them which is why they're in the pest so going that's the background to your answer your question the deer fencing was agreed to as part of the negotiation on a limited portion of the land about 30 acres plus or minus don't hold me to it tonight with exact numbers it's from memory and that deer fencing would allow the forest to regenerate in a natural state we do occasionally see native plants coming in I've seen them there they just don't last but they will keep trying the deer fencing in that area will allow the forest to regenerate the way it should be a natural forest and as part of the settlement discussion it will have Gates so that the residents living there can walk on the trails through and it will become a recreational asset that's the concept of using deer fencing as to the specific deer fencing that has not been designed yet I'll have a recommendation for them because say I would recommend 4x4 you call 4x4 fencing but in experiments going back many many years I've worked on on some of them we can see in 10 to 15 years the forest all of a sudden starts growing all kinds of new plants makes it healthier is there a leeway in there because some folks that border where that fence is going to be don't want to see all the deer come into their property can that fence be pushed back has that been set in stone with the agreement the the area is pretty well spelled out the the whole place will not be deer Fen first of all not the entire Woodland that will not be the entire thing deer fencing with deer fencing there there will be other areas without deer fencing in it and the deer are free to roam wherever they go the deer are an issue in Essex County and by the way anywhere anywhere you have plants today I don't know that it would drive them to a specific property in fact May discourage the properties if you have a fence here and you're the neighboring property it's conceivable you'll disrupt the traffic pattern if you will of the deer and they'll go elsewhere deer don't like to have to work too hard and if this is their normal pattern to walk through the forest to the to your property they're going to go elsewhere they're going to scatter okay so I don't know what the exact impact will be because the deer don't read the books that are written about how to control them but it definitely have a positive yeah you and so what is your role moving forward with this contract in regards to and I appreciate all you done with the as the councilman said with the recycling center I know years past we've had many discussions and I've been up there myself and and I do appreciate living uh my mom living across the street from there uh many years ago I do appreciate the improvements that have been made and uh the the cleanup that's been done there and I I think you've done a a an outstanding job there uh What What In regards what is your role with this contract we approve you in regards to West S6 Highlands because I'm trying to wrap my head around it like I said there's I know this has been a touch a touchy subject um and I again I got to be honest with you I I I wasn't happy with the presentation in the wsh sh I I really was upset with it um and I just want to be transparent with you I've known you for a long time I I was in fact very disappointed with it what so again I'll let you explain what would your role be this coming year if if any with WS6 Highland well I don't know where we'll be exactly obviously in the process of the building or otherwise or approvals but let us presume hypothetically that everything is approved and that the plan is to break ground at some point that's where I would come into play if it only if it's approved so if it's not if it's not approved so you there's no role for you between now and the planning board's approval if there are questions I would be available to answer them but as a formal it would just be to answer questions and give advice if asked when the construct go ahead I know I mean the role was again under this stat there's been massive litigation we cannot change the tree is B3 this site I get I get so biggest issue because there will be tree disruption at the site was the concept that we discussed at length across all was not one tree comes down without people out there on the scene we don't want to have mistakes so every tree so the concept was to bring in we can't just do one person in that the concept was let's all agree let's agre the area the the smallest building ow possible and let's make sure it's on again what we talked about the mayor and I with the developers we want to have a website everything everybody knows what's going to happen every week so there because you're gonna get lots of questions and issues and it all should be transparent so the concept is to to mr's point is we want every environmental constraint that can be done to lessen the impact and it's all been negotiated it's all before the DP it all be before the board has major r one set screen need to he is designed to be the boots on the ground to enforce it because there's nobody else and it's going to be on their do but it's our requirements that whatever the planning board and whatever the other stuff because keep in mind as Mr Mr was on the BPU to Def teachers recycling ref his resume been so he knows every environmental well as well as a the um so that's that is the process is that when it gets implemented we not have accidents um so that is the concept that at least what was negotiated and what the council approved as part of the co and what is your role that you're working with Mr vonino in the health department with the sanitation like are you are you working well with he has been part of the min Mr yeah that that was a separate contract that was given out in terms of so that's nothing to do with this contract that was on another contract so last spr you will recall council president William then requested he come in and explained that the S agent the S contract was coming up power point and everybody had an opportunity to ask question so that I don't he could OB tell you that but it had to go down to treasury he could tell you the St from scos CH but that's coming up this year and and then the third part is obviously the recycling contract is coming up and there was a pre bid meeting and obviously Mr fail can report on that but those BS were we just had to adjourn the bid date because of a bond issue and so that be coming in sometime within was that on the 19th and I think it's 20 days I don't have the exact date in my head but about 20 days after this is for operating this facility up here Council colleages anyone else have yeah yeah go ahead I'm thaning uh just did I answer here I think Mr trink did yeah you most um I was unsure about this debris clean up in West Essence is that your responsibility no no never okay so never if there's debris in there that is not I mean maybe you would identify it but it's not your responsibility clean it up ab I would identify a call it to attention and get it done yeah by the build gotcha I I don't have any any other questions does anyone else have a question that sure councilwoman Scara no I'm okay you you addressed a lot of the concerns that were brought to me by residents that both my Council colleagues mentioned so thank you for clarifying I have no further questions mam clerk okay I had to have one more question okay because I'm I'm I gotta I gotta be honest with you I I I I was the West X's Highlands piece has me concerned Mr I'm sorry in regard West S6 Highlands I want to know as far as dealing with the community so obviously if it doesn't go to the planning board there will be there won't be any involvement with Mr def on the public if it does go to the planning board it has to go to the planning board no no I know I I know it has to but it won't go because obviously there's litigation out there liation not on us on on on there's no litigation pay there is absolutely no well there's no litigation pending but there could be litigation not until the plan board acts right until something is pres well yeah I think I well I am certain that litigation is is is yeah but the way it works as we all know is um they present to the planning board the planning board has to act it's as a right zoning after the planning board acts then there could be litigation I I respect that you know that but so there's nothing it's literally the only role of this consultant expert whatnot is to boost on the ground when it's Implement and if somebody asked a question the inter but nothing else the inter he's not going to weigh in he's made his yeah no no that's what I'm saying he doesn't have an approval role he just has to do what the contract provides or what the poting board provid or whatever his role is you want him to make a second look for this construction debris that's been brought up that's on it should be done by the code we should look for it somebody should look for it he's a consultant to to to implement what's been agreed to by the court and by the Town Council so he's not he's not in and based on that explanation Mr trink there is nothing you can do to limit the number of trees that are going to be taken down um you can your role is to make sure that whatever is approved is actually executed not I think that's the answer to your question yeah there was a negotiation regarding tree removal and minimizing tree removal so over 75% of the trees that are in those woods are being preserved that's remarkable on the development of any size in addition where the trees are being removed obviously there's footprint of a building you've got to take down trees that are in that area where the trees are being removed there's also a rep replacement plan being proposed and in that replacement plan they are which is part of the settlement they are prohibited from putting in invasive species like barbarry and alantis or anything along that line they have to work with Native or indigenous species in order to enhance the environment of that area as far as answering your question further when if when this does go forward one of my roles would be to be on that site I have we have Maps we know where the limits of disturbance are on the site plan and to ensure that they do not exceed those points that would be to that minimizes tree removal I don't know how to build a building without a tree being removed no no I get it I just wanted I didn't think you had any role in limiting limiting the number of trees my understanding is that that is um already agreed upon and that is outside of your responsibility your responsibility is to make sure that whatever has already been agreed upon is honored absolutely that's correct why wouldn't the Forester do that just respect nature of this project is a magnitude that's significant and and because it's going to require in my opinion when they act by the way it's not even going to happen this year even like to the point even if the plan board hears it this year if there's litigation it could be years away but whenever it happens the bottom line is I I believe what was negotiating agreed to we're gonna have a full-time I use this word we're gonna have a full-time cop there not a police officer but we're gonna have somebody who understands it and this is implemented correctly because as we know mistakes happen the field every day and the only way we're going to be able to watch it is to be there and that's not going to be one person it's going to be a team because has company and it's going to be developers as it should be D so again I don't yeah and I think that's where the confusion with the public is is the developers DME but but they don't choose they work for us they work for us totally to respon that happened multiple other times correct Mr with other projects works that's the municipal land use law allows it as long as it's an actual cost and you're not trying to offload General uh taxpayer uh obligations but you'll be working with the recycling center this year yes I would anti unless something really happens fast and I've never seen that well and again for instance as council president Rec we worked on and we acquired the N9 some ACR for cres that end up to be not as clean cut after we approved it what happened is some of the neighbors started calling the D was a media I don't even he's probably still in therapy on this but the bottom line is Chief was out there for a lot of times I was out there again over the years uh neighbors and the golf club had put various things in that 90 Acres we acquired it's like Pottery B you own it you broke it you got to fix yes so again part of his expertise was he negotiated navigated solved without penalties or fines the issues that the DP wanted remedy and again he can certainly answer I know you do very well but it's done so that is where at you know in conversation with business administrator and CH staff those are the type of emergency items as well as the recycling center that U Mr defo and his team have assisted thank you Mr trink I think we've uh I just have one quick question sure M um when you start work I was also concerned I was at the presentation and a lot of the the people there were very concerned and very concerned with your presentation and the performance so I was like kind of on the fence um but I understand you know that was a very emotionally charged situation um will you be working with the residents with in that capacity when that project gets rolling at the highlands or will it be more with the Foresters in terms of being on the property I can't answer that but in terms my role would be to make sure the forestry is done correctly and as I said I would be reviewing all of the building receipts all of the building materials that are purchased I will go through the building from time to time not like a building inspector would do I'm looking for very specific things building uh to ensure for example if there's a building plan that says we're going to use this kind of hbac system I want the receipts I want to see that you put in this high efficiency system that you told me you were going to put in right I that kind of thing as far as a residence being on the property at that time that would be up to Builder I was expecting okay lot people walking around this construction site okay I appreciate but I would keep as Mr TR indicated there will be regular updates provided to the township right so that they can be posted so residents can see what is going on point because you're a million per right we've insisted that developer I want this website set up again we were supposed to but for this snow have a meeting one of the most important things that I think is important is put a traffic signal at oal Neagle Rock it's long overdue to the traffic issue is it is now it'll become worse trying to get the developer to get that in there it's been approved fully by the county so we're hoping that'll be this summer or by the Fall it's a process county has to prove and double check we need as as the council president said we have internal staffing issues we need her D engineer give her input um but we're working Cooperative with the county but to go back to your point the purpose of a website which should be accessible to everybody is you know know what's going to happen next week there you know what's what the phasing is you know there is different aspects I know they're coming out and the only benefit of someone he knows the link up he knows when they're giving it straight or when they're not or ask the right questions right so we can post legitimate information so there people but I do expect just like the council president said if there's question the public I do believe that should question yeah I just ask that you'd be very sensitive Maybe little more accommodating I think answering the questions is absolutely I'm here to answer questions that's my job and part is to educate and answer questions there's no issue about that it's to make sure when if and when this goes forward let me just tell you one thing your negotiated settlement that was done on behalf of your professional staff and I came in much later in the process than your staff I guess you've been doing it for 30 years you've been doing it for a while uh that settlement agreement is now a model that is being looked at by other towns were the ability that it fostered to save trees to save land to encourage forestry development and to use Green Building because there is no requirement there is no way you could have forced that through your building codes local building codes cannot mandate green buildings you have something that can't be done by virtually any other town in the state yeah that's uh Madam clerk is there I I just want to make one point to the again no no disrespect Mr Deo but just so the public knows so the the contract does not state that you that you're employed for West SX Highlands but it but just as a compliance officer and it names recycling center as well so just wanted to state that so I move for the acceptance of this resolution move a second I mean councilwoman castelino I'm going to say yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay the motion carries thank you Mr thank you resolution 3424 resolution authorizing a Professional Services contract to CME Associates H New Jersey to provide professional engineering and land survey surveying services for the Main Street Corridor crosswalks and sidewalk improvements project for an amount not to exceed $75,000 councilwoman Celina okay so I wanted to pull this and first I want to ask Mr gross a question or or the chief actually was going to check in something for so I apologize you were back today um hope you're good your vacation very good um so my question is myself and Miss gr did not get a chance to go over this uh with our uh engineer and and we wanted to sit down to wrap our heads around because there's so much detail in this in regards to what sidewalks uh crosswalks are going to be replaced and also the uh the band on the sidewalks that now if it doesn't matter um if we make changes with what's written here is if that's flexible or if it is then we we could table this till next week's there's some level some level of flexibility obviously what we have first of off what we have to meet is the dot standards and within that then whatever you know what what w within the the area that we applied for for the grant so this is this is the Washington Street Grant one you be been anxiously waiting for um this is funded by the Grant and um you'll we certainly have significant input into this so there so there's a DI dialogue that can go on and whatever concerns that that Main Street have or you have um can be addressed now you know are you g to ask them to do something that's outside of the scope I don't know the answer to that but I know that this scope matches the dot specs okay so which we have to do yes so you know I you know the way things work is that everybody's going to go out of their way to give us what we want within the four walls of the parameters of the limitations we have so so you think there's some limit of flexibility that we can move forward tonight I think you can move forward tonight um and I think you know I I'll have a conversation with uh miss cabalo about maybe having a a kickoff meeting with them so that so that concerns can be addressed okay yeah Mr gross um I'd like to um is is I'd like to have pedestrian safety um since we're talking about sidewalks and crosswalks presid at that and my my question and I I was happy to support the councilwoman if she wanted to table it if we were to table it is there an impact is this is there a time frame that we're working with or time constraint this a federal project so you know we what we always say is whatever time it takes to multiply by 10 that's how we've already waited three years for having said that we're certainly reluctant to to I don't I don't know that there's anything that's going to change yeah Within agreement that's that that anything you're going to ask for is be able to change the agreement the qu you know really that's the detail is what's the detail and what what what's the process going to be and and you know what limitations are there and that's something that's just going to have to occur by discussion and and because what I asked just so you know because the parking lot because we're looking when we budgeted some money to make improvements on the Lando lot and so we wanted to get some clarity on what that meant with the grant and that that's what we've been waiting for so when we do make those improvements like you know this way we can see if that matches upy bring guys so so um yes Mr gross when you um do have that kickoff meeting please invite pedestrian safety as well okay thank you thank you uh anyone want to offer a motion I make a motion V for this to approve this uh 24th is there a second um if we do is Miss carbella on the on the PO I mean I just want to make sure council president because there is if there isn't any flexibility we should vote on no no no no no no I mean in regards to we can't change something if we vote on it that's the only thing I'm worried about because it's it's it's more so the she on yes she is uh council president Miss carabal can you hear us it's Valley Road and Mitchell Street hello can you hear me yes please continue uh councilwoman hello hello Mr carala um on thir uh that's wrong 34 34 I know I pulled the other ordinance though on 30 4 24 thank you it I just we miss Brill and I wanted to sit with you I just wanted to make sure to see if there was any flexibility uh on this if we have any changes to that M we want made on this or you have to go exactly what was presented there is flexibility on the proposal on the scope of the work as a matter of fact it's it's divided into two phases phase one and phasee two for the uh Main Street Street Corridor uh crosswalk improvements um I'll be more than happy to sit down and go over it with you prior to meeting with the consultant if you have any um concerns as well as like you know the patterns the uh crosswalks and the sidewalks but I would definitely like to have this um the first phase of this project to be bit early spring of this year okay all right yeah no we could do a zoom even tomorrow if you wanted to so we'll do it quick okay great I just wanted to make sure before we voted for this that we had that kind of flexibility Miss carabal um you you should expect a uh email or phone call from um Valley Road councilwoman gber Michael as well with regard to pedestrian safety they may have some uh some some commentary or some suggestions as well okay um thank you very much uh for your availability tonight thank you Mr Fagan thank you Mr Russ so we have a motion that was offered right do we have a second second okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams has um excused herself from the deis temporarily council president ruford yes motion carries Okay resolution 3524 for resolution authorizing an additional expenditure in the amount of $24,995 to goova Burns Newark New Jersey subject to confirmation of available funds by the Township's Chief Financial Officer for Legal Services provided to the township Council in regards to Township of West Orange esxl 004 687 d23 councilwoman celino you pulled yes so I had pulled that so obviously I have not been uh supportive of um obtaining the attorney and go uh moving to the litigation that we have with with the mayor um I know we had to represent ourselves and the situation we found ourselves in but when we retain Mr goova and we had a not to exceed amount of $7,499 um it was stated in in our uh meeting with him that um he would notify us if he was to go over that uh amount now we talked tonight about not to exceed and uh how that works and to my knowledge um we were never notified of going over that amount and now that amount is over $42,000 for this case and I wanted to know how we got here and obviously there needs to be a council vote on it to move forward with it um but why weren't we notified when we were at 17499 and told that um we were going over the exceeded amount well I I can answer that um at our mediation first let me Begin by saying uh this is a lawsuit just for the record that the mayor initiated against the Town Council specifically to compel us to award a contract which is outside of her role as mayor um so we had to defend ourselves in the lawsuit we retained competent Council to do so and I am pleased with his representation so far uh when we were at the mediation which I did not want to attend I did not think it would yield any results but I went anyway um and actually all five of us went to the mediation uh while we were in the conference room uh both he and Miss Kim and I I I think you may I know you stepped out for a phone call at one point in time out for a half hour maybe you weren't in at that time but he he notified us while we were in that room before he left to go and speak with the other attorney and left Miss Kim in the room with us I don't know if you recall how that went but at one point he had to leave to go deal with the other attorneys before he left he informed us I heard him with my own ears saying listen there's no way in the world and this is almost a direct quote there's no way in the world we'll be able to do this for 175 we are absolutely going to go over that amount he told us in that moment in that room now he may not have done it in writing I don't know what uh communication he's had with the administration in writing uh but he made us aware at that time verbally while we were in mediation and I heard it what dat was that mediation again I can't remember what day that was but it was relatively early on November now was November November December December that was in December yeah we were well over that a lot of amount by that date well over we I have the bill list here right I'm going to speak to that if I may um according to the resolution that we signed and again just based on my colleagues um preference and how we have governed ourselves and not to exceed Clause indicates not to exceed so him verbally saying oh we're going to go over that is no indication to me professionally or any other sort that I'm going to go over that and we just said that in another instance um that legal services are at risk of being paid when you go over you're not to exceed Clause I'm just not comfortable with us making um inconsistent decisions on how we are going to move forward with our legal representation if not to exceed means not to exceed then as he approached 17499 then we should have gotten some type of communication I was council president at that time I have not received any communication saying that that um tally was was was we were close um even when we received the last bill we've only received two bills um from the goova Burns Law Firm one bill was at $111,000 and the follow-up bill was at $42,000 I think that's not the professional way to do it um I don't think that was our expectation and when we were in a private meeting um you just verbally saying of course this is going to exceed that we were also talking about at that same time if the case was not satisfactory for the council um whether or not he would continue to represent us if we were to choose to appeal I made it very clear that I'm not interested in an appeal the decision will will be the decision and and in my opinion this is a waste of taxpayer dollars certainly we're talking about $42,000 if we look at some of the salaries that we pay to some of the secretarial staff that's someone's salary and when you say that this lawsuit was initiated by the mayor um certainly she did file the lawsuit but the lawsuit was a result of us not performing um as a body we had refused we continued to table we weren't entertaining um resolutions and Mo and and and um ordinances that were put before us we were this body refused to deliberate continuously on resolutions and proposals that were bought before us almost to the point where it created a standstill and our administration had to tell us that either we made some decisions to increase fees or we would not be able to continue as a governing body without laying off um employees there was a DE debate about that was that a scare tactic was that actually real I mean we've just continued to to to get to this point without any type of agreement on whether or not we should be paying legal we continue to argue today we've paid certain entities 100 and2 200 and $300,000 we're at litigation of $40,000 that's not at what point are we going to enforce or not to exceed Clause when is it acceptable when is it not accept again this is just this was not acceptable for for us to go from $11,000 Bill to a $42,000 bill with no notification with no updates telling us that's just not acceptable so thank you councilwoman I just want to correct the record um the raising of the fees last year had absolutely nothing to do with the lawsuit the mayor initiated against This Town Council um it's very interesting interesting how from the very beginning when this Council was sued your position and councilman celino's position was to not even want to have an attorney that absolutely makes no sense um it has been very clear from the very beginning that your support is of the attorney and the mayor and you're entitled to that um God bless you um but in the reality is his contract failed so once the contract failed anything that required a contract should not have been done that was communicated in multiple ways multiple times and it and it was not honored and it got to the point where the only way to encourage or require the mayor to honor the just and right and lawful vote of This Town Council was to push back on the work that was being presented before us by that same attorney now her choice instead of acknowledging that this contract was not going to pass her choice was to try and was to do it anyway and initially the response was we're going to use them as a holdover and then the responses changed along the way and then when the question came up about whether he was actually being paid when those bills were being pulled that's when the law the the mayor decided to sue us I think it's in a I think it's a waste of taxpayer dollars too we should not be in this lawsuit at all the mayor should have honored the will of this Council but here we are and there's no way in the world I'm going to have an attorney do the work and then vote to not pay him or her or them when they've done it excuse me councilwoman excuse me councilwoman you do not have the floor councilwoman please excuse me Council I have the floor I I can already tell thank you um whether I give it to you or not is up to me so we find oursel in this position because we were sued it's a waste of taxpayer dollars absolutely on to have the lawsuit at all is a waste of taxpayer dollars it should never have happened but it did and we needed counsel and we got counsel and now we're still waiting for the for the judge's decision I eagerly anticipate it I can't imagine how a law a a judge could have could force a faulnak Town Council to award a contract based on a mayor's decision now um councilwoman gber Michael I was goingon to say let's call the vote instead of back and forth and continue to waste time it's 8:15 so I make a motion to introduce uh resolution 3524 I'm sorry I would like to continue with my commentary no thank you um I'm sorry the motion has been properly offered seconded yes yes I do and I to correct the record debate you made a comment and you said as a result can we have some decorum please we will We Will and going to continue I also have a clarification too you com that are incorrect that November 30th at $42,000 November 30th that conversation you had we had in December so we have what date was the mediation in December what date how do you know you don't know was Med H yes I want to say October 25th initial that was the ini date was the mediation when we were in nework when you rode with me what date was that that was not in December November right before it was not in November what date was it Mr train October 2th October 25th it wasn't and one trial the trial was in December de well whatever it was the hearing was in December back and forth a motion we're not we're not making a back and for I was I was clarifying the excuse me councilwoman please councilwoman please cored coun have some deorum you you made a point that I was wrong and that is not correct you know what your your entire demeanor is destructive to what we're trying to accomplish it is so please stop you are no longer no it's not when it's something that you don't want the public to hear have a convenient way of saying that I am being councilwoman you are out of order Council woman what you how many times do have to do this are we gonna stay till 9 o' with this foolishness is this real are you serious are you an adult are you going you are elected how you have governed come on this is ridiculous a motion was offered this has become a circus a motion was offered it was seconded Madam clerk I just have a question um Council councilwoman Williams expressed that she had wanted to follow up with her commentary and then before that could happen the motion was made and seconded it so again procedurally the council has the right to debate so I've never seen the council not with their colleagues with their it's not about this isn't about debate this is political brand standing not sure what where you draw that line but it line like every council president has been employed that to let each council member speak and it hasn't always happened again so a motion rules if you want to close it down I think you need a super majority vote but I don't have that in front of me so I'm not going to give an opinion tonight but again never seen the council when it's debating a motion not let Le M Council speak or respond the motion was offered and properly seconded as a point of order I was in the middle of a comment I was rudely interrupted you made a comment that is not an accurate uh reiteration of what transpired you indicated that the mayor brought the lawsuit forward the lawsuit was brought forward for Ward because you brought toward and a motion was approved by this body that restricted our CFO from paying our um attorney our Township attorney you also just stated that you would not expect for an attorney not to be paid after he has done the work that is indeed what the resolution passed by you and other colleagues with a 3-2 vote did it was limit and restrict our CFO from paying our attorney so if you're saying now that you would never expect for attorney and not get paid then why would why would we be in this lawsuit to begin with are you finished councilwoman is that that is the provocation for the mayor filing a lawsuit against the council so as long as we're clear the mayor file filed the lawsuit that's we would not be in this position if the mayor did not file the lawsuit the resolution was offered because when his contract failed they continued to award new business to assign new cases to this attorney without a contract that was inappropriate it was actually in violation of state law so that's why the resolution was offered to force the mayor to comply with a [Music] duy well it wasn't voted on it was voted down his contract failed that vote failed and she had to comply with the will of the council at that time Madam Clerk um who offered the first and the second please I offered the first she made I mean council president made the second Mo councilwoman celino no councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman scorpa yes councilwoman Williams no council president ruford yes okay the motion carries 39 is next yes 39 resolution to confront condemn and combat anti-Semitism council president BR 30 P this thank you madam clerk this is um this is a very difficult moment I pulled this because we had made some progress prior to last week and Bridging the Gap between the two um different groups in town that have expressed some discontent over this issue um and I have now permission to use a an individual in the community's name who um made herself available worked with multiple leaders in town to help bridge the gap and prior to our meeting uh last week on Tuesday uh an agreement was made and the individual is here Amy gallan an agreement was made between she and I that I thought would allow us and I and I think she agreed would allow the Town Council to address the issues that are raised by multiple different parts of our community with regard to this uh anti-Semitism or uh uh anti-hate um resolutions that have been proposed and the agreement was we would pull this resolution to allow time to craft another resolution that would address um all forms of hate and why is that important it's it's important because of how we got here what I've said in a meeting I think it was yesterday may have been the day before uh again with Amy galladon Larry Ryan Rabbi Levy um what I said to them was in any other time this would be a layup be easy to pass an anti-Semitism resolution we have a very vibrant Jewish community in town um we've spoken out on their behalf before at any other time this would be easy to pass but what led us here is mismanagement of a very very important issue that affects a broad swath of our community um and and it's not the Jewish community's fault it's not their problem to solve but it is our problem to solve as elected leaders this is our problem to solve now on October 7th with Hamas in in committing that horrific Act of Terror shocked everybody and the appropriate response was to have a statement to say something in support of our Jewish neighbors and friends and we did uh I would have crafted the statement differently um it was important that that statement went out quickly and I believe all five of us signed it immediately I don't think I'm not aware of any push back by any council person in signing that statement for October 8th and then there were a series of events I know I attended three I think I missed one maybe two but um there were a series of events that were held in town to show uh support for and comfort um uh for those that are suffering um as a result of of this war and they were all organized by and in support of our Jewish neighbors and friends and not a single one of us pushed back on any of that and I know I personally attended at least three I think I attended three and in the meantime nothing was said formally by this body or the mayor's Administration in support of or offering any kind of comfort to our Palestinian indan neighbors and friends and they are neighbors and friends too you can be upset if you want the only thing that they had scheduled that was a formal event by and and and just so just so I'm clear I think the meeting that I had with you and Rabbi Levy and Mr Ryan uh would has an AI transcript so I'm happy to review that with you um and I don't think I've had any any meetings with any members on either side of this issue alone and I've been to at least 10 or 12 different meetings um so so ex excuse me so the only thing that was done formally by this body was approving a flag raising and then it was immediately that approval was was revoked um and even though it was revoked all of us all five of us had an opportunity to show up and show them some support too none of them are Hamas none of them had anything to do with the bombing that happened on October 7th and all of them live here they are our NE our neighbors too um there excuse me excuse me Miss Gallatin excuse me that is inappropriate so when Miss Gallatin and I spoke we agreed that in exchange for pulling this resolution and granting two weeks time to craft another one that would address the issues of different parts of the community um you know this would be pulled and we'd do that work and then we'd vote on both of those at the same time on the 23rd that did not happen at at Tuesday night there was there's been multiple con conversations I I mean countless conversations between myself and all of my colleagues I imagine with various parts of the community regarding this particular issue and what I would hope is that that in order to move forward as one West Orange one Community um let me back up a second there's already been progress made it's it's it's not a lot it some may not think it's enough um but I'm encouraged by the progress that has already been made there has been agreement on both sides to sit down at the table and talk we weren't able to get it done before the flag raising unfortunately but I do expect that that will happen there were um agitators from outside West Orange that were planning to come to the Palestinian flag raising from both sides and both sides intervene to keep them from coming and neither neither group showed up and ruined what ended up being a wonderful celebration um of the culture and I thought that was something that needed to be highlighted something that that everybody needed to understand because it showed movement in the right direction so I do believe it is possible I know this is a thousands year old issue and we are not going to solve it but that is not this the issue that we have to solve the issue that we have to solve deals directly with those that live in West Orange and as elected officials as leaders in this town that is our challenge we have to honor all of them and I think the best way to do that even if we can't get just one resolution that addresses everything is to have all of those issues voted on at the same time we've not shown Defence we've not shown the same comfort and care to a part of our community that is hurting and that is not responsible for the terror we see in the Middle East and they deserve that comfort and care too many people in the Jewish Community um have expressed support for waiting privately it is not there's no fire to put out tomorrow what we're asking for is six days to have a separate resolution so that when we vote on this one we vote on that one on the same night and you know what that allows us as a body Town Council it allows the administration it allows all of us to hit the reset button and begin moving forward in a way that I think helps Bridge The Divide and instead of widening it last thing I'm going to say is um you know West Orange we talk about how diverse we are and when you have a diverse town if you don't do the work to build the bridges between the communities things like this can tear the fabric of community apart and that's what we're seeing we are seeing people who prior to this moment were kind friendly with each other who are now afraid of each other that for us has to be our primary focus and goal we have to we have to bridge that Gap and every action we take on this issue will either make matters better or worse we sat through five hours of public comment and the except for five speakers every single one was on 39-24 that shows how important this vote is it's early in the year it's only our second meeting but this is the most important vote we are going to take tonight because it deals with who we are as a as a town right I mean like if we are serious about being good neighbors with each other then our actions should reflect that so six days there's not a single council person the mayor I don't I doubt there's any Town Hall employee I don't know them all personally but I doubt there's anyone that thinks anti-Semitism is okay no one does we live in a town that has a very strong historical Jewish community that has been a part of this town and a part of the community for decades decades some of whom have been here 50 years or more and have found a way to navigate this diverse Community or as it became more diverse in a peaceful way I think we owe it to ourselves to press the reset button and and if we have to have a standalone anti-Semitism resolution then at the same night that we vote on that let's vote on something that acknowledges that hate is in the Islamic community as well and in other communities too so that everybody understands that this body is aware of their concerns and that the actions we take are designed to help and that's really all I'm asking um that's all we've been asking from the from the very beginning I mean that's what we agreed on and and let me say this and you guys can see that in this in this moment you know um there have been some very tense conversations we don't we don't always agree but in every single one of the conversations I've had so far even when we disagree we agree on a few things number one we're not monsters be and we don't vilify each other at least the people that are in the meeting because of the disagreement that's number one number two we agree that we have to continue the conversation and building the bridge because this work is critical to who we are as a town and and so even though we disagree and we disagreed in here tonight I know I'll be on the phone with Amy tomorrow and and others tomorrow um and the next day and the day after because that's the groundwork that needs to be laid in order to strengthen I guess the bonds between these various communities so my I pulled this not because I don't want to vote for it I didn't it's not that I don't think anti-Semitism is an issue it's not that I think the IH definition is somehow flawed I pulled it because we have to worry about 50 50,000 people and there are some other folks in town in addition to our Jewish community that are hurting too and they're not monsters they they are counting on us to be leaders for the entire community and that's I what I think we should do so I'd like the floor I'm hoping I'll call on you hoping that we say one thing before so uh just so you're aware the meeting material was due today at 3M for next yeah and there's always acceptions to that however I'm not sure when we'll be getting the resolutions and the protocol that this Council has been following is if it's not in the packet we don't vote on it so I don't know if it's realistic to say that it's going to be on the next meeting um sound as opposed to the February 13th meeting so there is a resolution that I um edited uh that has um parts that were created by the Jewish Community parts that were created by uh different parts of the community and parts that were created by me um that would have to be edited if we did a standalone it would have to be edited further um and that is it's possible to get that in by tomorrow but the packets go out Tom tomorrow the packets do go out tomorrow at uh around 1:00 but I mean there's time in the morning if I get the official word to put it in then I can do that how would that official word be done if we don't all have agreement or three votes we'd have to have that tonight Mr gross as uh Madam clerk mentioned there have there are exceptions to this and usually if we have something you know everything if you get a resolution title on and um you get you you have it before the before the end of before Friday afternoon that they can be sent out that has that has been acceptable to this Council that's i' like the floor Council Scara yeah I'd like to I I completely disagree I'd like to thank ra Dr Rachel Hy for coming to me six months ago and asking me to do this resolution this is not just about the war this is about a number of Acts that have been going on for a very very long time she's been incredible does incredible work on this has been incredible legal counsel to me on many issues and actually we'll we'll be voting on her consensus appointment for the older adults Advisory Board tonight and I hope you will do so given all of the work that she's done for our community but many of the emails phone calls and conversations I have had indicate that many of our Jewish neighbors do not feel safe right now words matter our actions matter and who we affiliate and support matters my classroom door beautifully decorated with children's art says kindness counts words matter the power of language why is this Council having such difficulty enacting a simp act of kindness in support of our Jewish residents and vote Yes on this widely accepted resolution that is not legally binding does not prohibit free speech and will comfort so many I know all of you I do not think anyone on this council is anti-emetic perhaps you do not realize that when people march and chant from the river to the Sea this makes our residents feel unsafe perhaps when the words inata are used it frightens many residents and makes them feel unsafe perhaps you have forgotten the specific documented anti-semitic incidences reported in West Orange including one just this past weekend in front of Temple bené Shalom the location of which in 1971 a bomb was planted and exploded this makes our residents feel unsafe and unwelcome we must confront and Define anti-Semitism and empathize with this resident whose sentiments are representative of so many we have heard I will read the recent letter we have all received so that we can help all residents understand why this must happen na here's her letter she deserves to be heard I never thought that I would have to address the Town Council I have lived in West Orange for 18 years I never felt afraid to be alone in my home until after October 7th shortly after that terrible day I had to stay home alone one night if I slept for an hour it was a lot every sound scared me as my home is visi Jewish with a muuza on my doorpost I now have a baseball bat in my bedroom fortunately I am not a descendant of Holocaust Survivors I do have friends who are and have heard many of their stories what I feel today is only a fraction of what they must have felt I do remember my grandmother telling me about her brother in South America who was refused treatment for cancer because he was a Jew I find it appalling that there is hesitation to pass the anti-Semitism resolution especially in a town where 20% of the population identifies as je I worry more than ever for those that are Jewish the number of attacks on Jewish people in traditional garb like yamakas has increased significantly it happens even though they aren't carrying an Israeli flag I would like to thank councilwoman celino and councilwoman Scarpa for under understanding the importance of this resolution council president Rutherford I saw the videos from the high school walk out in Verona Park you stated you agreed with all that Reverend raw said including what what was being said wasn't anti-Semitism the students marched down Pleasant Valley Way saying from The River To The Sea Palestine will be free and into F from the river to the Sea Palestine will be free is a call for the destruction of Israel you have yet to acknowledge that this is hate speech is this because you don't know which river and which sea like many of the protesters when they are asked based on this logic if the KKK marched through West Orange saying inata or similar language it would not be racist council president Rutherford and councilwoman gabber Michael you both attended the Palestinian cultural celebration I saw the warm fuzzy pictures that you shared with the media you seem to forget to share the ones that's said ceasefire now Israel is committing genocide and the Palestinian flag at half massed on the town flag pole neither of you mentioned if anyone asked for them to be removed or if they were removed maybe now you can see why the Jewish Community was upset when the original flyer had Palestinian Joy is resistance one definition of resistance is a refusal to accept or comply with something the attempt to prevent something by action or argument Palestinian Joy is resistance is interpreted by the Jewish people as a refusal to accept the state of Israel or the Jewish people as with other derogatory terms that have been deemed unacceptable resistance needs to be one of them council president Rutherford you say that you are in support of the Jewish Community but it is surely disingenuous I and many others would not be offended if any council member who votes against or abstains from voting for The anti-Semitism resolution excuse themselves from any Jewish sponsored event I would actually appreciate it as it would be uncom I would be uncomfortable in your presence at this point an apology with would feel like a political move to Garner the Jewish fed some council members would now like to pass a Unity resolution because all lives matters at the time of George Floyd's murder and the black lives matter rallies if anyone said this they were called racist if we are stressing Unity will we be moving separatist support like the black lives matter sign and the rainbow flag from the steps of town hall I was scared to share these thoughts at the last council meeting after hearing how some people spoke I was not sure I would be able to finish within the five minutes I wish I would have had the courage to speak I know you would have listened but I can't be sure you would have heard my message please share with me now how you plan to vote on this resolution in the words of Rabbi Swicker last council meeting he said we must have a moral compass Rabbi Moser Rudin says the voices on last week's call demonizing Israel and all who support the right to exist of the of the world's only Jewish State slandering Zionism is a simple belief that Jewish people like any other has the right to self-determination and making wild false hateful claims including claiming that our community the Jewish community in West Orange poses a threat to Residents from other groups is absolute hate speech and as someone mentioned during that horrific session the best proof of why we need to pass this resolution standing up against anti-Semitism does not negate opposition to hate or bias against any other group as people with a long history of persecution the Jewish Community has always stood up Against Racism and biased and we always will right now it is anti-Semitism that is skyrocketing around our country and it needs to be addressed again Rabbi Rabbi Tobin he States this past Saturday during religious Services a citizen from Clifton pulled up and stopped their vehicle blocking exit from Ben Shalom at 300 Pleasant Valley way he shouted free Palestine at our building a couple of times and drove away when criticism of Israel which would be free speech outside of the UN or the Israeli consulate is hurled in a synagogue it's anti-Semitism I am shocked that members of This Town Council can't agree on that when you don't recognize that some criticism of Israel is just politics but some criticism of Israel is anti-Semitism when you can't tell the difference then you need to have a definition to refer to this is not controversial the I a definition clearly protects political criticism of Israel those who oppose it are trying to deny the anti-semitic form of Israel denigration that is in fact Jew hatred when a racist says that it's not racist you should listen to the victim and understand how words have meaning the Jewish link we're on the front page the Jewish link says words matter and have meaning and as watching our Council perform it reaches the tri-state area is anti-Semitism what West Orange wants to be known for mayor McCartney is so concerned and leading the effort to craft a resolution to address all hate that will make each and every resident feel safe and welcome and ensure hate has no home here we have spoken and she is committed to Healing these divisions and bringing together this entire community and plans to do so we need to stop fueling hate letting the media characterize our town as dismissive of anti-Semitism and show deference to our mayor and work colle collaboratively with her by passing this resolution tonight and her Unity resolution at our next meeting this resolution on anti-Semitism should be passed tonight to make our Jewish Community feel safe and welcome and on just uh to end I just want to remind all of our residents our West Orange government is nonpartisan for a reason we are not Democrats or Republicans we are West storm orange this is designed to make sure we stay focused on the issues that are important to West Orange residents it is not within our purview to get involved in global Affairs or Wars so I ask that we get back to working together on the business that affects all of our lives and I call for the vote no uh we're going to keep this debate open um I we're not closing the debate we're going to keep the debate open so I think you're I call for the vote no we're going to keep this debate open here we go so a moment ago a moment ago I know it was okay then we she spoke she just sat there and spoke against what the council president said so we're not going to have two rules rules for y'all and rules for somebody else okay this is ridiculous debate go ahead go ahead I'm I'm I'm giving you the you're not giving me anything you're not the council president you're right you're absolutely right I apologize this is so it is obvious from the first email you read and I know you read several and at the end you mixed your comments with P Rabbi Tobin because I read and responded to his email but the first email you read I think is indicative of the problem we're having people are speaking at each other and not listening to each other there is and please maintain theorum it's not going to get us out any quicker there is sentiment that was expressed by that initial email that is absolutely false um you cannot tell what some if for me first off let me be very clear and I think this is backed up by all of the news and all the anecdotal reports that you've heard people that dare to show any kindness or compassion to the Palestinian side are losing their jobs losing their contracts they're being organized against to be removed from from their elected office that is intimidation that is bullying and it's inappropriate for her to say that any support that I show the Jewish Community is disingenuous is laughable to me unlike you or anyone else on this Council deis I am a faith leader my Bible studies are all on Facebook My Worship services are all digitized permanently archive I grew up in South Orange one town over which also has a strong Jewish Community I've never a day in my life until October 7th or whatever day it was the 9th or the 10th when people started saying this been called an anti-semite and now it is frequent and those that know not think or should know that I'm not an anti-semite because I don't say or do anything publicly or privately that could even remotely be considered anti-semitic those that know I'm not when they hear it don't challenge it that is as big of a disappointment for me actually even bigger than those that call me an anti-semite because they don't know me they're going on what they've heard but others do know me and don't say anything about it so anything any comfort I offer to anyone comes from my faith what I preach and teach is love it is not a all the time warm and fuzzy soft love it is not a romantic love love Love Is providing what is needed not what you have in abundance love is meeting the need of the moment even when it requires Great personal sacrifice and that's what I've tried to do in every single meeting I've been in and in spite of my best efforts it hasn't worked and I still get hate mail like that and I've gotten far worse than the ones that you've read today what Rabbi Tobin raised as an issue in his email when he told me when we met face to face I told him it was anti-semitic I didn't leave it there when I saw the email I responded to the email and even added to it whoever did it should be apprehended in prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows I don't think there's anyone regardless of where they are in this Global issue I don't think there's anyone in this town that would think otherwise because if you let let it happen to one group it'll happen to another last thing I want to say on this is in spite of my best efforts even tonight we've not been able to keep the global politics out of the debate comments that you just made councilwoman Scarpa invoke the global issue that you and I have no control over this resolution is not going to affect it and if in fact you have been working on this for six months what's six more days if it allows space for other parts of the community to feel like they are actually being heard too when literally we've done nothing as a body in a sanctioned faction the mayor promised to issue a statement a month ago still hasn't happened so what is the harm in allowing six days if it allows us the space we need to heal my obligation is different than yours and and I don't do anything for votes I've said this time and time again my role here is to do what I think is right based on the conversations I have and my own lived experience regardless of what that issue may be and I have honored that so if you've worked on it for six months and there's no fire to put out tonight or tomorrow and waiting for six more days would allow the space we need to heal which I think is it's not going to be easy the the the hard work starts after all of these resolutions have been passed if that is what we set ourselves up for then I think it's worth it on the on the other hand if we don't if we force a vote on this Standalone resolution tonight it makes it that much harder to bridge the gap between these communities which has to be bridged it has to be people live here their kids go to school here they work here they have family and friends visit here they hang out here they hit the parks they walk the track they they go to the schools and do their own exercise routines they walk their dogs they do all of that stuff here and we have to be able to do it in a way that supports and strengthens Community if that little bit of time which has surprisingly been agreed to by others whether it was agreed to by councilwoman scarper or not I wasn't involved in the deal whatever it was I I understand that but if that is the case then why not create the space that's needed so that our work on the other side of this resolution is not made that much harder and it will be made harder I agree the work is just beginning but I'd like to call for the vote I'd like to say something councilman celino so first I'm Gonna State and I could argue with my H colleague all night all night but I will still state that he no I won't but he I don't feel that he has any anti-Semitism or I think any any any of do we just don't agree on how to get to where we need to get to and this has been tough I mean this has been so heart-wrenching for all sides um and no no no no listen listen listen listen listen please the quum it's been it's been heart-wrenching for listen listen let me finish my comments don't get upset we had made uh we did a moment of silence when this first happened October 7th for you know and and we were it was heartfelt here on this Council to say that we haven't acknowledged all who have died that were innocent um is not true we we did have a moment of silence however this resolution and I said this last week and I mean it again today we had a whole week we had more comments more emails coming in more conversations being had I get it the idea of one resolution sounds unifying it it all sounds great until you get to the part where we have a large group of residents that absolutely do not feel safe and this has been historic within this Township and I go back again I said to 1971 I I was there that night when that bomb went off how scary that was um many instances Through The Years this makes many people feel safe I also listen to the comments of people that were offended by this and may feel otherwise and I have to apologize to them and I've asked other people to really point it out to me um where it says that you can't criticize politics of Israel um because I think you should be able to the politics in regards to you know decisions sometimes decisions made just like we do in this country with our president but and again I just don't see that so and I also asked for extra pair eyes to be looked on this to see if there's anything that could be uh amended slightly without changing the Integrity of the document and I I truly don't believe we could you could give six days but I don't think there's going to be an agreement that would that would be had so I think it's more sense to pass this this evening give that Comfort level have a separate resolution I explained this also to to folks that um f felt bad about the flag raising but again I mean these are trying times and we need to move on we're not getting other work done that we need to get done we we need to not how can I put it without it coming back to bite me but you know we we do need to work on the other resolution because there should be another resolution so folks don't feel that they're being um slighted but again I can't promise to pass that until I read it as well as as I did with this one so I will second to to move forward with this one this evening I do look forward to more work being done you know th we're not going to solve this problem here at this Council this this this issue has been going on for years I said it at the last meeting it it breaks my heart that we now have to divide our not that I have to divide but there's folks in the community dividing our Jewish residents as who's a Zionist and who isn't I mean this is insane we never we we never spoke to each other in this way and it is disappointing that we're here what's also disappointing is with the flag raising um again there's two sides to every story but the the mayor thought she was doing the right thing with trying to have a cultural event for uh for the few that requested until she couldn't so you know there there's certain language there and she had to make a call which I I'm I support it and and then we find out that we're on a a terrorist list to of of on a website and she said it last week on a National Registry it was International registry it wasn't a National Registry and yes everything went well and safe but not without the efforts of Chief Avid and the police department we had a lot of overtime at that event and and and that wasn't sanctioned by the township at the time by the mayor and but again but that's what we do we make sure our first job up here is to make sure everybody feels safe I had the privilege the other day of giving the chief an award at uh at Martin Luther King celebration which was beautifully uh done Awesome event and um you know made me think about when we went back when um when we had the uh George Floyd and all that happened there and we had a bunch of resolutions they were very important to our community that we pass even though uh Chief you know said we we we we um and again I'm trying to think back um we we use a force you know we we don't do a lot of things but we're going to memorialize them because they make the community feel safe and we did so now this resolution tonight number 39 I think makes a lot of folks feel safe we'll pass another resolution and ideally it would be nice to pass both of them at the same time and I'm not opposed to that yeah six days but the problem is I know I know where the end goal is for a few of you which is the again I'm not criticizing you is to try to get everything on one resolution no no no no and and and what initially was to but you're gonna cause hysteria so I don't understand why you can't have this resolution tonight and pass the other one next week I I don't think that's so problematic I just think if we don't pass this it's just going to cause more resentment and I think I think we need to to heal and move on I do agree but how we get there I guess we're we're just opposed you know to how we're going to get there I think we need to move forward here work on the other one and we're we're uh the mayor's proven a permit for a Ramadan celebration which I think is awesome um you know even before all this happened we are moving restaurant week uh away from a date that uh conflicted with Ramadan um you know we're going to keep keep trying to get this right in our community to make everyone who lives here feel safe I keep saying over and over again all our residents need to feel safe and all our children in our schools need to feel safe and there needs to be a lot of talking done so the two group you know there's few people that say they're going to get together I I hope that happens and you know they're going to have to agree to disagree like we always agree to disagree and we and we move on from that um but I know this is a this is different because you know there's people in people's families that are dying or that died are are been hurt severely and um it's painful for a lot of folks but um I'm prepared to to vote for this this evening coun I just want to correct one thing um so this is not about want either or unfortunately um we weren't able to get agreement to do just one right that just did not work out so yeah the request for the PLL is um to allow time so that when we do vote on this we vote on the other one at the same time and just as important as it is to the Jewish Community to have this done which is going to get done the only question is when right what form I know that there are some council members that want to offer some amendments um um and I know the mayor has agreed to some um at least you know in in personal conversations with Witnesses already but this isn't about finding one solution that ship sailed unfortunately this is about having the time to to have a second one done so that when we vote on this we vote on that one too and that's really all that's being asked I don't I and I think it's important too and and many of the rabbis that I've spoken with have said this um and I I agree with them I actually said it to some of them proactively it is important that this and the other one the anti-Semitism resolution and whatever else we create have a - vote anything other than a five vote is a problem it's a problem right we I think we're being mischaracterized by um the media if the media is saying that West Orange doesn't care about semitism or anti-Semitism um we clearly do I mean everything we've done they don't has been to show some support to the Jewish Community everything we've done so far everything we've done as a town has shown support to the Jewish Community rightfully so I'm I'm not saying that that's a problem or that's wrong but we should also understand that there are other parts of the town that feel the same way and if you know these resolutions are not going to make anyone safe Chief Abit Police Department um our our County our state uh Partners or even our national Partners they're they're the ones that keep us safe in this regard the resolution shows that we agree that it's a problem and that we're willing to raise our voice um you know to to one to call it out and to to um you know to do the work that's required to eradicate it to the best of our ability I got you next um so if we can do that for for all of the folks that are hurting all of the folks that are suffering as a result of this thing I think we should and that's all I'm asking for and I really would hope that we would just get the six days if it requ I stayed up to two o'clock the other night working on something I'm happy to stay up till two o'clock again tonight if we can get out of here before two o'clock um to to to work on something else that uh that can be passed uh and I understand some of your sentiments you I know you personally well enough to know what is palatable at least in a general sense and what isn't right um and I've spoken with Susan Scara I've spoken with Asar G Reichel I've spoken with um um councilwoman Williams too and I didn't mean to call you by your first name I'm apologize um but I've spoken with all four of us multiple times on this particular issue as well as countless people in the community so I think I have a sense of what can get past as a second ordinance um and and if I can't get it done and time to get it to the clerk by tomorrow then it'll just be one but if I can then at least we've got the two and we can go on on Tuesday and satisfy everybody and put this whole thing to bed and move on like to say this one thing and then can move forward um I really urge you to reconsider your motion so that way we can table this so that way we can be inclusive and vote on two resolutions in the next meeting what is six more days if we're going to make everyone feel comfortable in the community to have one for anti-Semitism and then one that's like a general hate has no home here and includes all like why not wait six days I you know that's it's not six days or what wants to wait time out time out time out time out time out Mr Gold Mr Goldman I know you know better I know come on we're talking about the next meeting which is next Tuesday that's what we're referencing here in order to be inclusive for everyone because we represent 50,000 residents and we're hearing people who are hurt on all sides we're not saying we're going to vote no on this resolution we're not saying that we're just asking if you could table it for this the few days until the next meeting next Tuesday so we can vote on two resolutions at the same time to make everyone feel inclusive this is where we're coming from we haven't seen this I know and you don't you don't miss hery miss hery miss hery come on that's not appropriate what what we don't have let me have a state of the let me let me make a statement of the coral we hear from the this is a public meeting in the sense that the public has the right to view it is a public meeting in the sense that the public has the right to comment at specific periods in the meeting outside of that it's not appropriate so please thank you for understanding well I I wanted tooman G Michael that's all was saying if we can please table this in an effort to vote on it in next week's meeting with the other resolution if we can all look at it approve it sometime tomorrow make our edits um I think it's important for the healing of this town and moving forward because as you mentioned uh councilman Cino hopefully we can vote on these resolutions and then you know so if I may um I you're I thought I'm going to just second the motion so let let councilwoman get her comment we're now just doing public comment and unfortunately I am absolutely not in agreement with a lot of the comments that you have made councilman so I'll just put that out and I I agree we do have to bring this back to our community and what's important to our community and in our community of West Orange I wanted an all-encompassing one resolution so that we could knock everything out at once I did not want to give deference because it does appear that this is two-sided but then I had to go back when I spoke with representatives from West Orange for Humanity and and I and I did and and we went in on each other in rigorous debate challenging each other's understanding of how we got here and how we move forward and a lot of what we heard for the five hours at last month's meet last week's meeting was that there is a lot of pain and there is a lot of fear but what we have now is an opportunity to vote on something that is before us so that we can show the residents who have come to us with a resolution that we are happy to Define what anti-semitic behavior is we have not done that we have not completed the work on the other side and I disagree that passing one resolution to next that is a standalone anti-semitic resolution is going to indicate that we are not sensitive to to the other people who are in just as much pain I for one did not want to say hey your pain is stronger or bigger than someone else's pain and the dangerous road that we're going down is trying to justify whose pain is more significant intense real I can't tell you what it's like to be Jewish I can tell you what it's like to be a black woman I can tell you that there's some things that have happened but it's not about me it's about the people who right now on Friday at sundown expose themselves by their religious beliefs and behavior that's what we're dealing with right now and I support the Standalone resolution I support our Jewish residents I support our Muslim Arab and and Islamic residents as well and I defer I defer from my colleagues saying we'll do one for every group I'm not supporting that but I do support an all-encompassing resolution for anyone else that feels compromised violated and or unsafe and we can do that by passing this resolution tonight and coming back whether it be six days or 60 days hopefully it will not but we can come back and we can do another resolution to support anyone else who has a challenge I agree well said councilwoman uh Williams thank you I I think it's important um for future conversation to understand exactly what you disagree with um but I I I think part of the problem has been um in doing this work councilwoman um and speaking with these multiple groups um I think we've heard your support on every single side of this issue at some point or another and while people can certainly grow and change their opinions from time to time I think in this particular regard it has made the work even harder um and my direct questions to you about what you would support or would not support I've not been able to get an answer which made it harder to get to consensus um and so I'm disappointed in that and certainly disappointed with your commentary councilwoman Scara you wanted to say something I just want to call for the vote and get on second and your level of disappointment with anybody's commentary we're all in our own opinion uh okay so it's been property moved and seconded uh 3924 for approval councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael I'm gonna abstain councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford I am voting yes because I am against anti-Semitism I am very disappointed that my Jewish neighbors and friends and my Council colleagues would not allow enough time to work with the rest of the community that needs to be heard as well so it is a yes for those reasons okay ordinances on second and final reading and ordinance amending chapter 21 uh section to be determined of the revised General ordinances of the township of West Orange gas leaf blowers uh is there motion to introduce on second and final moved second councilwoman celino no councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams no council president Rutherford yes okay this is the time for public comment on this uh ordinance alone if anyone would like to have public comment on the Banning of the gas uh leaf blowers now is your time um this is our first time my first time doing it as council president I am not calling on people just come up to the microphone please make a line if you so choose or sit nearby and speak in an orderly fashion thank you you're invited now good evening Council Vincent miletello 182 East mclen Livingston New Jersey lifelong property owner at 48 Valley way as you guys know I grew up lived here till I graduated high school and um want to speak a little bit about these electric leaf blowers you want us to use they've been nothing but problems we had some a lot of cold weather this fall they die they just don't work some days can't even keep them charged you're tying our hands with these blowers you know you talk about reset buns I think we should set a reset button till this equipment's out it's not time yet there's been a lot of problems with him and I think you got people in your ears from other towns this isn't Maplewood this isn't Montclair and this isn't California these blowers are not killing anybody they're not making anyone de there's plenty of guys in here that use this power equipment we can all hear we're not trying to lie to you we're not spewing fumes all over the place the noise is just about the same with these blowers the only thing different about it takes us 10 times as long to do this much more work it's not fun you get a little bit of moisture they're useless you're making us go backwards with rases and tarps this is not Maplewood it's not the same I don't know how they're telling you that they got the same uh results in the same amount of time I think they're not on the field or on the properties watching what we're doing it's not fun and I think any of these people in the town that are trying to get them to the street they'll tell you the same thing we're not trying to fool you just give it some time until the equipment comes up I've had clients tell me on cold days they can't get three towns away in their Tesla because they're not holding the same charges I believe there's a few people on the Cil that have electric vehicles you can't tell me that the car is charged the same way when it's 20 degrees out or 30 degrees out same thing with these leaf blowers at even 60 to to 50 degrees they don't charge the same ways we're not ready for this I think you guys got to do a little bit more homework and then I I also see that that the ordinance that we talked about as far as the fines we brought them back down to no fine for the First Defense 100 and 200 how did it all of a sudden go that when 2 uh 26 comes around it goes back to five a, 1500 I think there's other offenses that don't even get nearly as much fins we're getting treated like criminals for putting leaves in the street you need to revisit that we never discussed that it was going to go back to $500 fines at the first offense after you a full ban should be Revisited in 26 not enforced at 100% in 26 and as far as your your dates when we can use them when we cannot every landscaper starts March 1st weather permitted you can't give us a date when we finish either because if we get a late snowfall some of us can't go out until the end of March so you got to have some Provisions for that even if you decide that that's the route you want to go there's a lot of factors weather's a big one you can't do this to us and I don't know any other field where you you want us to to register as as contractors I don't know that painters need to do that I don't know that Carpenters need to do that why we why are you register us and you're not even telling us how much we need to pay as far as fees I think that's very unfair I think we're being uh you know pointed out that it's just our industry that needs to comply to these things so I think that's another thing you need to uh to scrap I've also had to register as a home improvement contractor which supposed to supersede these Town permits we're not getting anything for the the whatever amount of money you want to charge us for permits and then we're told that we violate any leaf blower thing you could take us and throw us out of town that we're not allowed to work in town talk about being discriminated can't do it thank you good evening Council Lou stado stado landscape I'm sorry say your name again I'm sorry Lou St can you spell your last name yes s t a n c a t o thank you uh yes and your address 161 Center Little Falls thank you uh I work in West Orange Monclair and many other towns sixels just to name a few um to um piggy back a little bit off of what Mr Militello said yes uh our business is been around since the mid-60s uh me personally working for the company and owning the company for 35 years um we've been forced to use battery blowers for many years now in Monclair um during the summer ordinance which was acceptable we tried to make it work this was our first fall trying to get through the October November December season with battery blowers um very challenging to say the least um batteries don't work in the cold there's no longevity to any battery no matter what unit you could buy Crest you could buy Green Works you could buy steel um me personally I probably invested close to $20,000 in these blowers with additional batteries and chargers uh only to find out what we already knew which was they're not strong enough um you know hopefully in the future technology can catch up to the outdoor power equipment industry right now it's not there um we bought the equipment knowing it wasn't going to do the job but we tried to conform and and tried to do what was asked of us uh when batteries are hot they don't don't take the charge when they're cold and the outdoor temperatures are cold they don't take the charge no matter what unit we have we can't get a battery to last longer than 20 minutes um you know we've tried to charge on generators we've tried to charge on multiple outlets at different people's houses only to find out by plugging more than two to four batteries in at a time we spent a lot of days tripping outlets and going out of our way to contact homeowners letting them know Hey listen we tried to charge we can't charge we tripped your Outlets um no matter where they were um listen in the future if the equipment is there I'm sure you'll find every landscaper not just here in West Orange but in Montclair and other towns who sign up and say Hey listen we're going to save thousands of dollars of fuel per month that you know thousands and thousands per year not to mention the reduction of mechanical bills which any landscaper knows is a killer so we would say yes if the equipment is available and and can do the same job it's a viable option it's comparable to what we can use as far as gas is concerned we'd be all in we'd say we don't care what the cost of it is we'll buy them but right now we're not there yet if for whether it's landscapers Commercial Workers Town workers you can listen to the Monclair Public Works guys I don't want to name names because obviously I've been to many meetings not just in Montclair and here but also other towns and you'll find that Monclair Public Works whether it's their supervisors or their workers and their code enforcement officers who even go out and do the job of ticketing these guys they'll all be in agreement that the blowers are not good um with one last thing to what Mr mil Militello said yeah listen no contract no legitimate businessman has a problem registering or having a license we all own New Jersey state licenses we own multiple but I believe the state license supersedes or overrides any to um registration or license it does right so i' we've already went through that in other towns Richie knows that um so with that being said one other thing i' like to agree with Mr Militello about is Mother Nature doesn't pay attention to the calendar unfortunately she doesn't know when we're going to get an early snowfall a late snowfall take into effect what we've gone through here over the last month council members we've had tremendous flooding tremendous storms with tremendous wind damage a battery blower can barely move a wet Leaf can you imagine try to get a battery blower to try and move the debris that's come down off of these trees through some of these wind storms it's impossible listen every landscaper uses rates and tarps please finish your comments we we we don't have any problem using rakes and tarps in addition to the right equipment that's needed to maintain some of these properties listen I'm here because I have some properties that are one two three acres and I know what it takes to clean them thank you sir unfortunately battery blowers aren't there I appreciate your time C thank you anyone else Richard Leon artist Pleasant Valley Way West Orange I've been up here many times uh we talked about turbine blowers I'm hoping that you're going to allow that and I'm hoping that you'll also allow the regular rolling blower also um that does have the same motor as a the ground blower has the same motor as the turbine um these guys talked about the time frame I think the biggest thing is I keep saying it um you don't have the power the batteries don't last uh we talked about Monclair Monclair Monclair Mar fell on its face it's clean now because all these guys used gas blowers at the end of the year now we talked about Maplewood Maplewood the Topography is not the same as West Orange the topography in Montclair is the same as West Orange we got the bottom of the hill we got the top of the mountain we got lellan Park Maplewood has none of that the mayor spewing that that Maplewood looks great you can't compare either one of these towns we are demograph our Topography is more like Maplewood and it's failed we've had all this rain now that these guys used the the battery powered blowers early on and it worked because it was extremely dry once the rain came game over right they were using in Mont cleair yesterday they were using gas backpack blowers to blow the snow they have not they could not do the work with the battery power blow low so Monclair now is going to run an ad campaign to tell you that you should accept your property being uh not as clean I don't know about you but there's no Town telling me that my that my property should look dirty right I spend a lot of money taking care of my house it's not going to be dirty in the town it's not going to tell me that um what I'm highly offended over is Mr ruford I've sent you an email I asked to meet with you you sitting here talking about how you met with all these people you've had conversations with all these people and you've never reached out to me right and I'm offended by that because you tell me how you're such a great communicator I asked you to contact Rob Yano who's the superintendent of of Monclair and he'll flat out tell you that the blowers didn't work that that they they bought the crest blower which is the most expensive blower out there and he Compares that blower to the it's like the junior varsity team in this High School playing a professional football team there's no comparison Maplewood has that same blower I I gave you his name and I gave you his number you employ Joe Pelosi he's your guy right he'll tell you it doesn't work I went there I gave him a blower to use and they laughed at it he put together a wish list I gave him I gave him a I put together an EST an estimate for him was $135,000 world here talking to a lawyer about $225 an hour which is incredibly inexpensive for a lawyer I know I have five of them right we can't find money for any anything in this room we're going to spend $135,000 on Crest blowers that don't work they're about 40% as efficient as a gas blower so we where are we going to find the money for that that means my taxes are going up because they don't work but nobody has contacted me nobody's contacted this gentleman we don't even speak to Pelosi who's the the professional we got all these guys sitting here in the room that are professionals we don't listen to them we listen to a handful of homeowners that are talking about global warming this backpack isn't going to solve global warming this we got they're not saying they don't want to use the product they're saying it don't work and nobody's listening to that they not you don't listen to me you don't listen to the to to this to these people I've asked you to contact you don't listen to them in the back room and they're out in the field they're the professionals so you owe it to them to listen to them and nobody's saying that all we're saying is don't come in with a date of 2026 at the end of 2025 Revisited if the technolog is there by all means put it through if it's not there then it's not there wait for it to catch up but we're not there yet and you're kidding yourself if you think you are maybe it's political pressure from the outside maybe it's because you want to go against the mayor I don't know what it is but Common Sense tells you it's not there and if you think otherwise you're kidding yourself there has to be another agenda because common sense is common sense thank you thank you uh anyone else good evening Council my name is Galen Co so I'm sorry say it again Galen gleen last name is cope uh my landscaping company's name is topnotch lawn I work through the essence County and I work through the Union County areas um Essence county is the biggest problem all the time I mean I have the electric blower I mean it cost over $1,000 just for the blower and I had to get five of them so you could imagine just the bill that you go to Union County there's not one problem in Union County that needs electric blower it's kind of weird how it's just Essence County that only does that I mean I've never got a ticket and I work through the whole Essence County and it's just I mean I'm sweating now just because it's a headache you know just you know what am I doing next that it's going to help my Landscaping Company blow the leaves off people's property and then I would have have to raise my you know my workers pay because I have to spend more time because of the blowers um I mean pollution from a blower I mean think about it there's more pollution from cars that we drive around every day with I mean pollution is pollution but I mean it's not coming off a blower that's a two cycle engine that's you know trying to help people's house out to make it clean you know but I just came to say you know I wanted to support all my friends and you know guys that I know I mean these are all landscapers here in the back and we all came together just to call and say Hey you know come to the meeting come to the meeting because we're trying to make a difference between these blowers I mean I'm still with my my landcaping clothes on you know because I had to deal with the salt that we had to I mean the snow that we had to deal with but just a blower I mean I don't really think it's making a big difference I mean I lived in mood I went to Columbia High school you know Maple middle all that stuff I live through whole Maplewood I still do the Maplewood houses with the blower because it's just the houses are so big where you can't use a little electric blower I mean even if you did it'll run out before you finish then you got to have to charge it at the customer's house God forbid they don't have a charging port outside their house I mean what what else do we do we got to go to somebody else's house to charge a battery or carry maybe four four or five batteries on us that are already charged maybe that are not charged I mean I love working in West Orange I don't live in West Orange I live actually in East Orange I bought a house in East Orange and I mean East Orange you could blow I mean all these places you can do all the blowing at and it's like specific places Monclair Maplewood and then West AR is trying to do it I don't think it's a good plan I mean I work in Montclair and if I did use the blower they'll call the police on you can imagine how that feels to get called by the police just for a blow just to clean somebody's house but that's really all I had to say I just wanted to come and speak because I never spoke before at the council meeting and I feel like it you know it opened me up today you know so you know friends landscap yeah we're all back you know so we good to talk to you guys and you know have a good night thank you thank you sir anyone else uh want to speak yeah yeah um I've been listening for a little while to uh the conversation about your name and address for the record please I'm sorry uh uh Pastor Doug Adams West Orange Nine West over terce thank you um and I guess the for me I'm always trying to figure out or understand the conversation as a whole and um I guess I'm still not understanding in face of what uh the landscapers the providers that have come before um other experts have talked about the challenges with the batteries the challenges with the power so you know I I ask I know people around in different places in the country I'm originally from Michigan they're like uber environmental and especially in an aror they're like super duper liberal and uh talk to my brother about these things and and it just seems like everybody I talk to has the same thought about the batteries the the lack of um Power the lack of consistency you know we have a landscaper that does the property but I got issues so when they're not there when I want them to be there I needed to go and and borrow one of the guys lawnmowers to cut the grass and to do the stuff gu has electric lawn more and with the battery in so I get the battery I'm it's dead so now I got to go back down the hill I'm like what's up with your thing man I got to go back down the hill I go get another battery I get his battery I get the charger it's like uh uh it didn't work I just called and PID my landscape or extra money to come do it and so I guess the part that I'm really wanting to hear because I do understand global warming I do believe that global warming is a phenomenon I do believe that there are issues and oosha issues with the various equipment that people have to work with but I've just not heard anybody come in and articulate why we need to do this in the light that there's still a discussion going that um I I just haven't heard a response to the issues about what we're going to do in town we're GNA go spend all this money and go buy new equipment and now we got to go do this differently in town and we got to spend this money we don't know if it's going to work or how well it's going to work and I mean there's a lot of things that we talk about tabling and I I do want to congratulate you for the work that you did earlier with in the time where you're dealing with resolutions but this just seems like this is one of those things where our public works department should come in there should be some reports about this I mean I just saw uh an article where uh Herz is getting rid of all their Teslas and I was driving down the parkway the other day and I I this car is the most the most serious carire I've ever seen in my entire life and it was a battery that blew up in the car and so I mean I just think there are so many issues with this and I would love for the council because I'm not you know and I apologize because you know I need y'all to do the work so I don't want y'all mad at me I'm not on really either side of it I just have not heard any compelling argument that says that we have to press to do this right now when there's still debate about how well it's working in other places and this is the last thing I would want to say West Orange is a town that has very very very very very affluent people very influent people so the reality is if the landscaper has to stay out there for three days in a row to do what they got to do it's not going to hit them very much at all but West Orange also has res seniors and other people who every dime and every dollar has a name on it Y and if that if doing this increases the expense for them and how they do it and we haven't done a real thorough study an impact study we haven't looked at it demographically we haven't looked at what who's getting what services and how it's impacting them I would dare say that we would come back later on and have real regrets so I just would like to hear and and you may have that information so in public comments or when you respond I would love to hear the answers to the issues that have been raised over the several meetings that this has been address because I just have not heard an answer to say why we have to do this right now thank you guys car pleas valy way um just to give you a few numbers the batteries that go in the Greenworks there's two of them they cost $350 a piece that's $700 it's called the 82 volt in four years that Mont uh Maplewood has had the ban I talked to landscapers that are in there and they didn't build a better mouse trap all they did was build a big one we went from 20 volt to 40 volt to 60 volt 80 volt now we're at 82 volts the the blower weighs 38 pounds my red Max weighs 28 pounds okay it can only be charged between 250 and 300 times if you charge this battery on your truck which guys are doing with small Honda generators the environmental thing is now gone because I'm running a generator from 7:30 in the morning till 5:00 at night to charge these batteries if not you have to go out at talk to one landscaper he doesn't even really know how many batteries he has okay so 250 to 300 tons these guys will be replacing the batteries probably every three months where are we going to recycle how are we going to recycle okay um the recycling of all the batteries and there's two companies one in Ohio one in California they don't even know if the gas and the oil that takes to recycle the batteries is going to break even so they don't even know if it's worth it okay your your talking about all these batteries you think everybody's going to recycle their batteries remember the 70s with the tires in the woods we made planners out of them they filled them with dirt and everything the the the change in the technology is not coming it's not coming they're not building better batteries they're not building batteries that can handle it they're building bigger ones pretty soon we're going to have CL batteries on our back okay um the the snow day the other day I took my gre1 battery out both of the batteries were on 100% I did my driveway on Pleasant Valley Way just the front of it in the apron the sidewalk the curb and my wife's called put it in the garage I said I'll come back later because it started icing up they were at 55% okay the batteries when they're thrown away and not recycled properly that's why you see a lot of these garbage trucks catching up fire yeah we don't have it now it's not coming and like the man said I don't understand the rush what's the rush what are we doing if I have to put a generator on my truck to charge my batteries to go to the next job how is that not taking away and and damaging the environment okay also how do you charge somebody an extra charge for using battery operated like we have to do to the customers of West Orange how do I now say hey by the way Bill I'm going to plug in my uh six charger I'm going to charge six batteries at your house and now you turn around tell me at the end of the month whoa might bu went up $50 it's not there yet ladies gentlemen Downs um my name is Gustavo Pereira I reside at 100 Terrace Avenue uh I my company attractive Landscapes is at 17 South Jefferson Street Street in Orange New Jersey um I believe everybody you know touched bases I've been touching bases before uh on the situation about this um you guys know my story so I just want to add something uh maybe um of what my fellow landscapers uh say um there's a certain percentage that I'm very uh sensible of the issue of Mother Earth and you know try to save the planet and the whole thing I got kids uh hopefully my kids will have kids and so forth so I want to make sure that you know we live behind a nice clean planet for everybody to live um yes the technology is here it is here but it's not ready for us and that is something that you guys have to understand I'm not going to repeat what rich said what Vinnie said I don't want to go through there but the truth of the matter is that we as landscapers as commercial companies to service our town we cannot use those products because they don't work and that's maybe repetitious what everybody else says what I want to ask you to do is that if it's possible I don't know you guys the law if you can put it like every time that we go and vote for you guys or for the mayor or for whatever put it in half the whole town vote and see what they tell you I don't have not even one customer of mine one that has complained about the usage of my blowers and the blowers blows are used what 10 minutes every time that we finish mowing the lawn 15 I hear people saying that you know sometimes our employees just turn Full Throttle the blowers and they just run for what that's ridiculous why are we goingon to do that why are we going to spend waste gas for no reason so that's nonsense so I think that if you put it into a ballot then you're gonna have an idea how many people live here 45,000 50,000 how many people feel that this B should be passed then you have the power you guys have voted this is going to be bad and I can assure you that's not going to happen because a lot of people are not with that there's certain amount of people who are but there just a few it's a percentage a small percentage and on top of that yes to 2026 let's revisit that let's take a look on it but right now passing this ordinance is not the right thing to do a lot of people are going to suffer we are going to suffer as providers but also our people our customers and some of them are not young and some people I hear that you know they say no I use my electrical blower I use my electrical mware I yeah because you're a homeowner so you can charge it run it for 25 minutes whatever do your tiny lawn and that's it but we we can't the batteries are ways and then you know we went through all you know to recycle the batteries and whatever else so I don't want to Tire you you guys have more important issues to worry about and to pass than just the regular blowers because a tiny amount of people have an agenda about bees about Le the leaves alone and quite frankly the majority of the people at West Orange they don't want to have the leaves blowing all over the place they want to have a nice clean beautiful house beautiful Town beautiful streets that are not flooded with leaves on the sewer line so then it becomes a problem for the town itself that's something that you also have to investigate and talk to your superintendents of in the high school and whatever else and they will tell you specifically because they are the ones who are using those electric blowers that you want to enforce and they're telling you they stink they don't work listen to them unless you guys want to get one of those and prove them wrong and I'm sure neither one of you want to do that thank you very much and God bless you all anyone else offer motion Mr Fagan we have him on Zoom uh yes council president um Petro welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record my name is Pedro quaglietta q&s Contracting um we do work out in West Orange uh I have a couple uh issues here um I just want to touch in with uh the license that West Orange is looking to do looking to push under the the guideline for the New Jersey Contractors Registration act number 21 says specifically uh it will supersede any uh local town uh Home Improvement License that the town wants to enforce as for these blowers uh I get it no one wants to hear it we don't either but the fact of the matter is it works by you know these decimal levels that you know if you're talk about noise uh it's equivalent to you using the hand dryer in a bathroom should we get rid of those um Summit has tried two years ago uh because they wanted to go all battery and they did a little experiment for their Town didn't work they went back to gas blowers uh West Orange South Orange they all have Foresters because you guys butt up to South Mountain reservation bunch of leaves Maplewood does not have that um as for the usage the generators have to go it just doesn't work out too much stuff lot of money spent for no reason I know a couple guys out in South Orange they work for the DPW they're talking about how South Orange wants to try to push this if West Orange pushes it but they don't care because they get paid by the hour so they're willing to milk the system with a rake to get paid same thing with West Orange your tpw your hours are going to go up your labor rate's going to go up the taxes are going to go up has to because you can't push it in the budget because it's not enough money I agree with a lot of other guys when they say that you need to revisit it in another year another two years when the technology is better it's just not there I've looked at the lawnmowers I've been looking at for five years now I would get one but they don't last more than five hours and no one here Works more than five hour uh less than five hours in the industry of landscaping we are the most restricted industry there is everything we do is attacked you want you want us to get a license to work in the town if we put fertilizers now now we need to be licensed um any other thing that we do we need to have licenses we're more restricted than any other industry there is and it shouldn't be if we had an opportunity to cut our gas cost in a heartbeat we would but now our labor rate goes up town rate goes up our customers rates goes up it just does not work um I would say please revisit it again later on down the road when a new battery comes out um I'm sure Richie over there will be more than happy to give you a blower to demonstrate in your own house it's all I got to say thank you but Petro would you uh spell your last name for the record before you leave it's qua g l i e TTA thank you Sally manga welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record Sally manga Ridge Road good evening the testimony that we have just heard is stubborn willful ignorance these are Scare Tactics we've heard adium their objections but they don't address the debilitating noise and pollution of this out ofd techn techology landscapers act as if they don't care about these side effects they can be and need to be better business people we had a dealer Jarrett of ecoquip out of West nyak New York he's both a dealer and a landscaper he made testimony that the electric not only the blowers the lawnmowers and fact all of the equipment that he's been using for the last five years and selling to the advanced type of landscaper who's willing to embrace a better technology and is saving money and reducing their pollution and serving the community tonight it's working fine successful let's push these landscapers to get it right thank you uh council president I am seeing no other hands raised thank you Mr Fagan um public comment is now closed uh council president I'm sorry uh Joyce Ruden is on the line she had her hand raised short uh Joyce Ruden welcome to the meeting please state your name and address for the record hi good evening Joyce Ruden um Woodland Avenue in West Orange I want to thank the council for bringing um this measure forward and really hope um that tonight we can we can move forward in West Orange to a cleaner environmental position tonight I have heard discussion from Mostly landscapers who don't live in West Orange um and the one landscaper one or two landscapers that I have heard one of them is running a business illegally out of his home and is annoying all of the neighbors with his landscaping equipment so to say that that neighbors are not unhappy or that clients have not left him because of the noise generated is simply not the truth there are many many facts that were Mis spoken today one gentleman said that there's no problem with two-stroke engines two-stroke engines tend to produce higher levels of exhaust emissions including particulate matter carbon monoxide hydrocarbon emissions and Nitro nitrogen oxide emissions these emissions contribute to air pollution and can have negative effects on human health and the environment they hurt the children the elderly and particularly they hurt the workers the gas-powered leaf blowers are noisier than battery battery powered blowers gas powerered leaf blowers have a much larger ler impact on the neighborhood their noise penetrates through windows and can be heard throughout the this setting the noise can lead to permanent hearing loss the noise seriously affects humans and Wildlife there are so many reasons why West Orange has to move forward we are giving a long uh transition time all we're asking for is a roll out over a two-year period and in in fact when one of the landscapers said oh we need to start blowing immediately by March 1st we don't know what the weather conditions are there are no leaves in the in the spring what you're picking up in the spring is mostly uh uh branches or limbs or or Twigs that have fallen you don't need more than six weeks and right now you have 12 weeks to do a spring cleanup so I urge this Council to not listen to The Fear these landscapers are already working in all of the other towns surrounding us that are transitioning or have made the transition Maplewood is a very comparable town to our own in fact they probably have even more trees and their their mayor spoke to this Council last week and said that they're not experiencing or two weeks ago and said that they're not experiencing any problems in fact it's quieter and just as lovely so I urge you to vote for this and help West Orange transition to a cleaner and quieter Community thank you council president there are no other hands raised you sure Mr Fagan uh there are no other hands raised as we speak thank you sir uh we're gonna close uh there currently uh councilwoman are 56 people on Zoom uh at the highest point there was 70 something thank you we're going to close public comment [Music] um do any of my colleagues want to we'll start with coun councilwoman Casto respond to public no no secret how I'm going to respond so I've been very transparent about my feelings towards this um first of all I want to uh thank all the professionals who have been coming to all the meetings I know you've been here on many late nights and tonight as well you've been working all week late hours um keeping uh the roadway safe so appreciate that um you know I hear you I've heard you all along I've also uh you know we landscape our own property um so I know the challenges that there are with the uh electric blower and how they technology is not there I I don't think that is fearmongering I think that is a fact the technology to to do this efficiently is just not there yet and we see that already you turn on the news this week with the uh the temperatures dropping throughout the country and all the electric cars that are just not working with their batteries you look at Chicago um you look at Iowa a lot of focus on Iowa this week and um you just see the technology is just not there I and I appreciate the AF uh the activists that have been concerned and have come come on the meeting to express their opinions and I just want to share with all of you that I have always I have passed since I've been on the council every piece of legislation that has to do with improving our environment this is the first piece that I have not been supportive of and the reason for that is I truly feel the technology isn't there yet I don't believe these batteries are going to help us with the environment I just don't see it where they're mined where their the minerals are being uh uh where they come from I just don't see it and the other reason for this is our ordinance just doesn't make sense so now we're going to have our P our PDW have to spend 135,000 but yet because the county and the school district they do not have to comply to our ordinance is they don't have to go out and purchase any electric leaf blowers so they don't have to meet the Mandate but the township does so that's that doesn't make sense to me I understand it why it why it is but it just doesn't it's just not helpful um we see technology with South Jersey I I have a home down in South Jersey for the past year or so past two years with the wind farms guess what they're not coming to South Jersey any longer because of the technology isn't there yet it's very expensive so those projects are falling through I think we need to wait I think to say well well we're not doing this to 2026 but we are because come this spring if you want to clean up your property here in the township if you pay your increased sewer tax you're now going to go out and buy electric leaf blower be or else you're going to get well you won't get fined yet you get fined in a in two years I don't think that's good enough I I think we should just wait for the technology I am getting a lot of calls and seeing people in shoppr the bank uh in October uh we were doing the Halloween on on Main Street uh the the Holiday Open House people come to me all the time asking us you know what's what's wrong why are we why are we moving forward with this they just can't make sense of it and because we just don't have a good enough reason and and I I thank Pastor Adams tonight because your comments were were right on from what I'm hearing in the public so though folks don't want to spend the time to have to tell us that they don't support this and come on the call that doesn't mean they're not out there in the community because I could attest that there's plenty and again very supportive of of doing what I can for the environment when I was on the school board always pushing to make sure they recycle properly which they uh at at times did not um my phone is old I I don't go out and buy a new phone I replace it with the SIM card because I don't want to waste the battery because again the batteries in these phones also not good for the environment um but folks still go out and buy new phones all the time so um again I'm just upset with this I I approved open space 138 anres Rock Spring 96 Acres at cresmont I'm very environmentally friendly but this I'm sorry does not make sense now I think we need to not only listen to our professionals but I'm also listening to numerous residents uh about this who do not want this at this time thank you council president thank you councilwoman councilwoman uh Williams thank you um I don't think we need to continue to beat the dead horse I've been very clear um on my decision and how I will support or not support this unless that we do agree to revisit this in 26 and make the amendment that's been recommended by our Administration I'm I'm I'm the most environmentally conscious person here I have solar panels on my roof I drive a fully electric car I don't know how to be more environmentally conscious conscientious than some of the choices that I've made personally um but I do also acknowledge that when the power went out on my last call um council meeting last week I was helpless I begged us to end the meeting because I'm sitting in the dark trying to do the work of the administration um I if we have a power outage I couldn't drive my car you know as far as it was the battery was that was it the power was out so I get it we're not there yet technology is not comparable so if we're not willing to revisit this and and change that language um so that we can make sure technology is there in 2026 I can't support this I have to listen to the people who go out there and do the job every day I mean what are you all here for aren't you here because this is your industry this is your profession I I I I I have to listen to you than thank you CC Williams uh councilwoman Scarpa yeah I mean I do hear you um I know it is going to be difficult but I think we have to move in that in the direction of of the blowers you know there's so many people that have work at home that don't like the noise they don't like the dirt they people with the kids they they just they just really there's just so many people that really want to see us move in this direction I do think um we can revisit you know uh in a year and see where we are um and hopefully the technology will be a little bit better you know technology moves pretty quickly two years in terms of batteries is is a while but and I will look at it but I think we have to move forward thank you councilwoman councilwoman gab Michael thank you all for your commentary those in person and on Zoom um I uh also Echo uh councilman Scarpa sentiments um we can revisit this any time we can resisit next year um I do believe we have to pass this I like the idea of the referendum for whoever came up with that idea that was Mr pear um so maybe we can I don't know what the process is for referendum maybe uh legal can weigh in and what that would look like um I don't think that landscapers should be charged to register if you guys already are charged as mentioned per state statute that state statute over supersedes U Municipal um laws so I don't think that you guys should be a uh double charged so I'm hoping that once we pass this we can make the revisions um with colleagues um and I that's it so that's my commentary by the way someone mentioned about turbine rollers uh turbine lowers they are allowed it's in there um it doesn't say they're not allowed in the ordinance nope that was removed that was that um the turbine was where it stated the original please yes it is allowed that's I'm trying to say the original ordinance that we revised stated that it was only for golf courses and we made it very clear that we can't have that language because that sets us up for litigation because now you're only allowing certain people use it we the the res resolution that not resolution excuse me the ordinance that we're voting on tonight on second reading States turbines are allowed period so it's not just for golf courses um and I end my public comment thank you thank you um wait wait can maybe I was gonna ask Mr trink to address your question before I give mine Mr trink uh regarding the referendum processes someone mentioned it I don't know maybe if you know it's a significant C obviously you know it has to be done in accordance with the law you want me to you that process we can prepare yeah if it's not something that would be on the agenda would be on the bot I think she would just trying to understand the process process is that's all and I can work on that sure that good and not work on the referendum just work on communicating with the process time time and cost yeah the cost if it's not done at the general election um it's over $100,000 if it's not done you have to have a special election got it if it is done at the general election generally if you do it do a resolution with the question by sometime in August could you repeat that into your mic so everyone can hear you yeah um the the the process is generally uh the council would have to pass the question a resolution with the question select the question some sometime in August I don't know X number of days before the election in November um for for the November election uh and then it's with if you do that it's a non-binding it's basically just a tabulation of that um and you know really um it's you know H has no uh weight per se it's just the you you you not much different than take putting putting something on the website and taking a fold something there also INR in New Jersey yeah say that again repeat that there there's initiative in referend there's an ability the public to put something out and that's zero cost not $100,000 for special election right if it's a special election without it being a special elction like us getting resolution done by August so that way we can get on the general election November then is no right additional cost additional cost thank you for clarifying one of one of the problems with that I mean it certainly up to the council to decide what to do is what questions do you put on referendum and which question which which questions do you make those decisions yourself I mean in our in our form of government not just here but in in this country you you know that for the most part that type of a process is reserved for very special um circumstances so that's something to consider thank you thank you um I want to thank everybody that uh waited through two meetings now to comment um want to take them in in order to the best of my ability um so Mr milella we fully understand that cold weather affects the charging um we discuss this in every single one of the meetings that we've had to discuss this um we know that it affects the battery life in the cold weather um and so as a result of that what we've done is extend the window where landscapers are allowed to use gas powerered equipment um it is now March 15 through April 30th I think originally it was four weeks uh March 30th I think or maybe April 1st or April 30th I can't remember but now it's March March 15 through April 30th and then we extended the fall twice at one now it's at October 1st through December 31st so gas powered equipment is allowed uh for six weeks uh in the spring for the spring cleanup and eight weeks in the fall for the fall cleanup um I don't know of any landscapers that have really heavy duty responsibilities outside of a major storm in September um but even if that is the case what we've included in this um resol this ordinance is the ability for uh the township under emergency circumstances to suspend the ordinance so if we have a major storm in September and it takes down trees takes down a whole bunch of leaves and we've got to clean them all up um and I let I know it's in here somewhere um it is in here somewhere there um uh the township em Emergency Management coordinator shall be permitted to modify let me read the entire thing this is section 4 chapter 21 um entitled exceptions be in here hereby and is hereby amended to add as follows in the event of a weather emergency or other emergent circumstances the township Emergency Management coordinator shall be permitted to modify the restrictions of this ordinance so I can envision a storm big enough uh where we would have major damage in September or so possibly even even August and in that case our Township emergency management coordinator is allowed to suspend this and landscapers and homeowners would be allowed to use more powerful equipment to to handle the cleanup and they would not be subject to any of the rules or restrictions within this ordinance um I challenged the notion that we didn't discuss the fines we did discuss them because we amended them uh so that the first year I mean I'm sorry the first fine uh the in in the phase in Period the two years where there's a partial ban the first offense is a written warning the second offence second offense is $100 the third offense is $200 now um what I I don't know that we discussed and this I maybe this is what you meant um but because I know you own a home here and a business um we didn't dis at least to my recollection we did not discuss um when we covered the fines that the fines are applicable to both the homeowner and the landscaper uh so perhaps that was where your your concern is um I think that's something that we can discuss further tonight to be clear on what the impact is uh but we absolutely did discuss uh the fines um Mr stunata and I apologize if I didn't get your name accurately um he echoed some of the same sentiments um and he referenced the flooding and the storms over the last month um so but over the last month or so those that flooding and those storms the impact on uh Landscaping would not have been uh impacted by this ordinance because it's outside the partial ban and uh we've all agreed that we're going to revisit this prior to 2026 to make sure the state of of the technology at that point is able to handle a full year ban um but a part of the reason why we have these bigger storms is because of climate change um and and I've said it before I I certainly think we as a Township need to do everything we can to address climate change this is certainly and someone mentioned it um this is certainly not going to have a major impact on climate change none of us are under that delusion um it will have an impact but I think regardless of how big the impact is I think it's important for us to start moving down that road um there will certainly be additional opportunities to uh be more environmentally friendly whether it's in development whether it's with uh the alternative uses of energy um there's a lot of opportunities down the road to be more climate friendly I think this establishes us um as a Township in moving in that direction and I think uh what I what I really want to hammer home is that we've tried to accommodate some of the concerns that have been raised in these multiple meetings uh primarily from from uh the landscaper side of the equation uh Mr leonardis um you're you are you're offended that I didn't respond to you um I will tell you and I saw both of your emails I don't know why it came through twice the same exact uh thing came through twice I don't know why maybe it was just me um I have I have spent an inordinate amount of time trying to deal with issues that directly affect West orang residents um and their quality of life their Safety and Security in time in town um it has been overwhelming to say the least the amount of time that has had to be dedicated since late October uh on this particular issue um especially with the limited progress that we've made um but that was where my focus was and still is uh and so I didn't respond to you but I also didn't respond because the tone of your comment was condescending um and I've got a an inbox full of condescending and and that's being kind I'm not saying it's being kind with yours in particular yours was condescending others have been far worse than yours um and so I am not responding to uh any emails that um and this is not just this is a general statement but it was brought up because of your comment I'm not responding to any emails that imply that I'm somehow stupid I don't know what I'm talking about I don't know what's going on I've got an agenda or a hidden agenda I'm trying to take something out on somebody else and seek some political retribution I'm not responding to those regardless of who says them what the issue is as soon as that is the tone of an email directed toward me I am not responding and I'm not even going to say whether I read it or not now I did read yours and the the um the discrepancy I had with yours is that I did not shut down public comment in our last meeting what I asked people to do was voluntarily not say the same thing that had already been said it had nothing to do with I know it didn't was to talk about a blower you asked not to have that conversation because that wasn't the agenda Mr leonardis you had your five minutes for for the Corum purposes please I I understand your position I do understand your position Mr F called me and have respect what you said so let me let me explain to you where we are in this meeting this is a continued meeting we began a regular regularly scheduled normal Town council meeting last Tuesday night about three hours into public comment I asked people to voluntarily limit their comments on on 39-24 I was accused by two of my colleagues of shutting down public comment I was not shutting down public comment I was asking people to send in their comments via email if they were on the same exact topic and or someone had already said it now because public comment then went an additional two hours and it was midnight before we even got to the agenda I felt it was unfair both to the residents constituents of West Orange as well as us to begin what was a long agenda at midnight so we handled only the time sensitive issues um that were presented to us and we adjourned the meeting to continue tonight which meant that which meant that we didn't get to second reading for this ordinance yeah so if we if if we would have gone through the normal meeting you would have had an opportunity during Second reading of the ordinance to comment on it now if there was some miscommunication around your ability to comment during the regular public comment um and I don't remember the language that was used before but I do know in the in the agenda it says um there is a portion of public comment for agenda items only that is a hold over from changes that were made last year that I am not holding over any longer past this first meeting which has now been extended over two so we're going to have one public comment we're going to discuss in new business tonight some ways to handle public comment differently so that we're not here till 1 and two in the morning but we're not going to have public comment on agenda items and public comment on non-agenda items so there may have been some confusion if there was I do apologize but I did not shut down uh public comment um also I get it I get it I get it thank you thank you Mr leonardis um I also want to just remind folks that um I have gone and met with um I've met with uh landscapers I've met with the suppliers I've met with Joe Pelos I spoke with him actually even today and I called Monclair now I didn't speak to the gentleman you wanted me to speak to I spoke to someone I know in Montclair hey what are you guys doing this is what I'm hearing what are you experiencing um and and I also asked them about other things I'll leave it at that um my understanding of Montclair and and my understanding of Maplewood lead me to believe that we are able in West Orange to implement a partial ban a partial year ban or a ban on partial part of the year uh without having significant impact either to our own DPW or to landscapers in town because the time frames in which the the gas powered equipment is banned are the uh is the time of the year when the the gas powered or the blowers in general are needed the least which is again May 1 through uh September 30th um now if there there was some commentary about extending it even further I think someone wanted it uh us to start in March March 1st I'm I'm happy to consider that I that's not an issue for me I mean this is a what what is important is that we move to a place where we get to a full year ban and that when we get there we're able to do it effectively and efficiently without imposing an undue cost on uh residents uh on our Landscaping Community or on the environment uh multiple people and I think you may have mentioned it too uh reference the um the generators that have to be run in order to charge the batteries we don't want people to circumvent the intention of the ordinance so we hear you fully and we're willing to do that kind of work too but I do think it's important to get started councilwoman Williams said that she has to listen to the professionals and uh that are in the industry and and what they want to do um and once someone said that this is the most restricted or most uh governed whatever regulated I think was the word they used industry there is is that's absolutely not true it is not the most regulated industry I don't have to live in your world and please I'm asking for the last time to maintain the Corum we've had public comment that part is over I come from a world of banking and insurance that is very highly regulated there are other Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Heth healthare that are very highly regulated now this industry is regulated no question but it is not more regulated than other Industries and the regulations are clearly um they need to be updated we one one of the commissions that I serve on is the joint meeting that is our Joint Sewer Commission and we have towns in the state of New Jersey that are allowed to dump raw sewage into the river so regulations have to be updated from time to time this is one of those times and and what I was saying about councilwoman Williams comment is government is meant to regulate that is our role whether you're on local state or national a part of our job is to regulate and that's a part of what we're doing uh with this particular ordinance um the recycling of batteries is an issue um and that is a hard one for me uh including the uh reference to the um garbage trucks C Catching Fire I think the reference to the car batteries Catching Fire which I know is a real thing those are different types of batteries and so I don't think that's a good analogy but the garbage trucks catching on fire and the recycling ability of the batteries is an issue I don't know what we're going to do about that and I do think that's worthy of debate I think we need to understand what that means especially since we're going through the Garbage Contract now I don't know what the solution to that is I do know that the batteries are out out there and I do know that they're going to use up their shelf life and at some point be disposed of so I don't know what the solution to this the disposal is but I'm happy to investigate um uh the only issue I had with the referendum was the cost and that was addressed so if we were to do it at in the fall and again I don't want to burden the the voting public with questions that are unnecessary uh to ask uh via uh a referendum but it may be worthwhile taking some type of poll to see where where residents stand on this because unlike councilwoman calino uh I've not gotten I've not gotten push back I've gotten um I've had one comment in my own neighborhood which H hires um landscapers to do the entire neighborhood we don't do it ourselves there's a whole team of people that are out there every single day doing it um and it wasn't it was the question of what you know what is this going to cost us or we're going to have to pay more in our monthly fee as a result of this and and that is a legitimate question um and my legitimate answer was probably we're probably gonna have to pay more that is a part of the sacrifice that my neighborhood in particular is GNA have to make and no I don't make that decision lightly but I do understand that we've got to move in the right direction when it comes to climate change and had we already been moving and made some major steps uh with things that we could we know we could do then this may not even be necessary but but we've not done those things either um the license being an issue um someone raised I think that was uh Mr Pedro I did not get your last name I apologize uh someone raised an issue about the license I think councilwoman gber Michael um is suggested that we uh revisit that as well I'm happy to do that tonight I don't know if that's a substantive change and would require a reintroduction on first meeting if it does then I'm not willing to do it um and then we can just revisit it when we address some of these other issues to clean up the ordinance but if it doesn't require us to go back to First reading uh I'm happy to address um uh the license fee because it does say in the resolution that it would be I mean in the ordinance that it would be uh governed by resolution can can I get a response on from legal on that what was James again do we if we were to say that uh you know a license is required but there is no fee would that require us to go back to First reading if we were to uh amend it mended that way tonight no okay and then I have another question that was not raised in public comment but um it's been rolling blowers have been mentioned multiple times and it's for the life of me I don't know if rolling blowers are actually covered in this or not um there yeah like it says gas powered leaf blower meaning shall mean a piece of equipment powered by a two-stroke or fourstroke engine using gasoline or a mixture of gasoline and oil blend as fuel and used primarily for but not exclusively to blow uh grass clippings and debris leaves dirt Etc often used in lot yard and lawn maintenance does that cover rolling blowers too rolling blowers same I'm asking legal Mr leonardis please for the last time we we we're not entertaining comments from the public that part has passed now if you want to answer the question you feel free to send us an email and and we'll review it I appreciate it Mr Excuse me Mr trink I'm certainly not the expert on I wouldn't i' call the be DPW I do not know so I don't know that rolling blowers are covered in this um and that is something that I think we should be clear about in the next round I know if we are clear about it now I think that would be a substantive change and require uh first reading so I think that's an open question that has yet to be answered um and until it is answered I I don't imagine that um I think we should be able to answer it before the season kicks in but but uh even if we don't I don't I don't think that we should be finding people for Rolling blows have that conversation offline yeah I mean it does use gas though um that that is it for me on public comment uh to my Council colleagues are there any amendments that you'd like to discuss or offer before we I have a question for administration sure so my question for administration is how you going to enforce this we'll be coming back to you for Capital Money well why I mean the complaints so how are you vetting the complaints how's this going to work because again it's we pass an ordinance we need to also have the responsibility of knowing how it's going to be enforced so um to your point I talked to the me Bo prosecutor hases and again they have websites and they have people who take pictures and it's uh it's an retire process they say you know everybody you know so it is a process and it sounds U challenging but they do it and uh again we obviously have we've had people called call the chief for the trees the police department I mean I don't want to go there that your neighbors using their their uh gas leaf blower and and then someone's calling the cops on them because that's gonna happen here I could tell you right now and I don't know how you're gonna educate the public and get that fixed that's be the problem you have is if the police don't generally the she will talk about I hope they don't there you can't just send me a picture in your cell phone because says you know one of the rights of this country is to confront your so if the neighbor who is taking these photos and most of them want to be anonymous don't want to come to court you've created a whole process where you're dragging people to the court and you know people aren't happy they're giving up more time effort and then then it's very difficult to prosecute that case mwood again most cases that we all know we bargain and resolve but it's definitely a process and I don't want to belver the point but I don't understand why we're going here I mean I understand but I don't understand there's there's there's people that want this but I don't understand why we didn't go forward with a total campaign to educate and persuade people to go in the direction of using these these devices as opposed to putting professionals out on the limb we keep talking about you have an association well in my neighborhood there is an association I have retired folks I have folks on fixed incomes that they really need come May if they want to keep their property which the way they do have to go out and purchase a new new leaf blower because this may they're going to have to do that if they want to continue with and there are leaves there's leaves all summer long the wind blows it it's they're there and again you're going to have people washing down the debris on their properties with water there's another issue there utilizing water where they don't need to and and this is all about the noise I'm sorry I've I've listened to the complaints this has been nothing more than a disguise because people are fed up with the noise of it and the electric blowers are still going to make the noise so this really got intense when Co hit and people were at home and working from home I've worked from home for 25 years and it's yeah is is it a is it cumbersome that you have to go into another room and and do what you need to do you're on a meeting but again the these folks have to make a living and and your neighbors want their properties Immaculate and so this should be interesting how this panss out you all know I'm going to vote no I won't say anything else I just wish that you would move with a campaign for the next year and then revisit this after the campaign thank you councilwoman any any other questions comments concerns um yeah so I mean we've had multiple years to do to do exactly what you've said you've been on the council now for quite a while and done no one's done it exactly so this is why we have to go no no no sir no sir no sir no sir there's no public comment at this point no there's another public comment at uh after the ABC hearing was justy to please please send an email if you have my cell phone number and I think you do okay well now 73 979 4973 it's all right you can send me an email thank you thank you um all right so that's all right thank you do do we want to entertain any amendments to this um Mr trink said if we amend the license fee that that's not a substantive change uh and we don't go we don't have to go back to First reading motion to remove the fee for registration shall be fixed by resolution we shouldn't we should have them pay twice if they to Reg their businesses they should from that point on then just get get on the website well I I don't know that registration should be required but I think we're eliminating some of the small businesses when we talk about a registration process not all landscapers are registered we just happen to have those um who have continued to come before us who are larger companies or yeah you know but but we still have a lot of people who cut GR and they I mean kids start off TCH grass as a I mean that's how they earn their money so I mean I just I just think we're just jumping the gun so so are you seconding the motion because that's what she off I revoke my my motion can I do that can I roke my motion you resend can I resend my uh motion well only second second all right I'll second her recision okay and then counc wait a minute I'll agree to councilwoman to resend my second second I got it been all right debate it's a debate on the main on the we ordinance okay so I thank you councilwoman uh Williams for your commentary um you bring up a very valid uh point and for that I think that we should just Nix the landscaper registry [Music] um and the fee registration associated with it so so your your your motion is to strike the the entire paragraph yeah okay Mr TR is there all right but um say the question is does it bring us back to First reading no okay then I'll second can I just ask another question just to wrap my head around what you're doing may I get it I think I I don't want to see them pay a fee or have to register but at the end the day isn't the point of the registering so when people complain they know who's registered in town but but it's my again I agree why this whole thing doesn't make sense up the street because two neighbors are senior citizens I AG this is a way for them to I I think that I think a child cutting grass would not necessarily be called a landscaper although the definition is not in here at least as far as the version that I'm reading but the the point is if we do need to deal with enforcement um and that was a question or the comment that you made before you shouldn't pass it on ends if you can't enforce it I have stated that several times that we need to deal with enforcement not on just on this but on other issues too and I think we we should and we will um there will have to be some modification or some addition to this ordinance at some point in time to address enforcement we can still go forward with it tonight and then agree to do that work down the road so there a motion to amend the second that's either what the debate is or you have to vote on the amendment first see if you ready for the vote who seconded it Council scar okay thank you and this was to remove the entire landscape registry paragraph okay which is in section six thank you yeah I see here okay and then because if we decide that we need it we can always whenever we review this put it right back in okay well if you're going to consider that why wouldn't you just make it so that we've done with all of our other ordinances that any fee is set by resolution and then you can set the resolution it said then then you leave it as it is and then you pass a resolution setting the V the fee to zero well what she's saying is she doesn't want them to have to register at all oh well that's based on Council woman Williams commentary a Bonafide business has to register for merti mertile yes but right then and there can we also identify that they're a landscaper instead of a whole new registry well they would on their application yeah so then there's no need for the all right so right wait councilwoman castelino brought a very valid point they have to register for the mertile license so why are we doing this twice and having a landscape registry why can't they just Mark with their landscapers on there so people know versus having a whole new well I'm not sure if it's sorted out reg enfor you need I think you'll need a registry for enforcement because if there's multiple violations you you got to some way to track this but and you could trct it through the mertile license well you're not unless they separate unless the program could separate out the landscapers I'm not sure if the technolog is there with that eye so we can we can what we have to address that we could decide to do administratively if if indeed we can do it that way so again I my my sense is that again I unless there's some there's gonna have to be some registration process um and so whatever that is Administration figure that out I'd leave the ordinance as it is and set and set the fee to zero and make this simple rather than complicated I me I think well hold on a so so also can deal with it when we deal with enforcement too so I mean we know we have to deal with enforcement that's just a a practical matter right I mean you know violation is a violation we have we have fines set up in here you know VI for the violations so that that's set up in there um enforcement is how do we how how do we deal with the Manpower or the technology to do the enforcement it's not an ordin I don't know that that there's an ordinance change of that that's something we have to the Administration has to figure out how how we deal with this and all of everything else that we have to deal with on a day and day out basis y so you're recomending that I resend this motion and leave it as is I I I would and then we you you can also if you want add a resolution to make the fee zero and then you're done with that aspect of it anyway okay I resend my motion then thank you for there I'll resend my second thank you okay any other amendments to be offered do do we want to entertain moving the um the ban back from the March 15 date to March 1st is there support for that I'm okay I'm okay to compromise that's does that require us to go back to First reading Mr trink no offer motion yeah so I make a motion to change from March 15th to March first I'll second it ifs compromis in R 3 section right R Ru three Section 1 and two instead of reading gas powered leaf blowers may be permitted March 15 it would Now read gas powered leaf blowers may be permitted March 1st for both one and two um second thanks Council Miss yeah all right so ony Amendment uh councilwoman celino yes for the amendment councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay any other amendments um to be offered hearing none uh I offer a motion to approve uh on second reading adopt actually on second reading um ordinance 2833 I second okay councilwoman castalina no councilwoman gber Michel yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams no council president Rutherford yes the motion is carried okay next on our agenda ordinances on first reading 28:30 4-24 an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-19 through streets and the 7-21 multi multi-way stop intersections of the revised General ordinances of West Orange Valley Road and Mitchell Street I'll make a motion to move that second okay uh councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michel yes councilwoman scorpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes thank you gentlemen night thank you guys stay safe okay pending matters new matters Council discussion we have Council consensus appointments on the agenda this evening um uh first one is for the economic development commission so I'm confused wait we have appoint appoint that's all mayor appointment from what I understand yeah we don't have an appointment for that yeah we don't have an appointment for that we don't have an appointment for what economic development have to go look at yeah it was for the senior right the senior adults yeah there two for the seniors and I do have some comments on the older adults that I need to discuss as well oh than she speak can your M sometimes I know I got to lower it I just bring it closer it stretches yeah sometimes amen take a pause um uh we're going to recess for two minutes until councilwoman celino comes back uh there is a council consensus appointment on the economic development commission who was it last year apparently it is Ros mus with bilski oh so let's just have her again she's great she's business owner wait a minute I'm sorry I didn't know that that was a consent yeah I don't recall that actually actually yeah I believe what we do without you so has R stated that she didn't want to do it no no no they're only one year appointments so they be let's just re i' Mo make a motion to reappoint R oh wait she's not yeah one second we're in I make Sal when I go home depending on long that would be other issues that so it says here the commission shall be appointed within 30 days after the effective date of the section the mayor shall appoint five Commissioners the council shall by a majority vote select one non member as as a consensus member as long as R hasn't stated that she wants off of the commission I I don't think we need to do anything though she didn't State anything this was just me telling you what needs to be done yeah I'm sure she would yeah she's involved and active yeah she's good so do we have to make a motion to approve her to get Keep Her On ask S okay I mean you can do it and then if she chooses not to she can tell us and then she probably doesn't even know her appointments up you know who's that Ro M she's currently serving on the economic development oh yeah I would I would support I made a motion already to I second her well we're not back in session yet we'll wait for sit down I'm hungry yeah we almost had a shot of getting out of here at a decent time seven minutes listen we're we're right there but we do have ABC and then com yeah that should be quick all right we are um reconvening um we need to do a council consensus appointment do we have a motion or for the iic development commission do we have a motion um I second okay this is a motion to reappoint right reappoint Ros mosit bilski to the economic development commission so I'm sorry uh but you moved okay I said it okay okay so councilwoman calino yes councilwoman gber Michel yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford yes okay great um the next one is I don't have my agenda in front of me uh older adults advisory yeah the older adults Advisory board so I circulated a while ago the resume of Frank Barnes Frank bars I would like uh my colleagues to consider it I never got it I sent it to you yeah I had here thank you does anyone else need a copy I I've never seen I another copy that well how many how many seats are open there two two and uh we put Alia and um Rachel Hershey which Rachel her she really needs to be on it she's a lawyer and we need her based upon what I'm going to talk about tonight I mean I had committed to those two first because I asked um and both seniors who have been very active in our community and active on that board I think they deserve to be on that board so Frank Mars is as well and not just here but in especially here going back decades um to working with Chief Abbot with Juvenile Justice uh Frank bars um um um is is my recommendation for the older adults Advisory board so he's been involved in West Orange and West Orange resident for decades um and you know is involved in both the faith community um and the social justice community and now as an older adult uh advocating for what we call older adults and not just seniors um I appreciate you having two uh recommendations councilwoman I I I I think we've um pretty much selected um a decent group already I I'm hesitant to uh just take Frank's name out because you want both of your recommendations to be there so can I would like my my gu to be considered quick yes so right now they're Oney year appointments as well correct so councilwoman celino councilwoman gber Michael and councilman ruford all all of your appointments are up well I'm going to be reappointing my appointments okay same here okay my appointment like the vice Chate all of this right here I'm willing to appoint ala I believe we should give different people turns on boards it's actually one of the things in new business I wanted to discuss tonight was having all boards and commissions onee appointments and if they choose to be on there again you can simply reappointment reappoint folks but I think every board and commission should be a one-year appointment that's how it is I think but only for older them already in by ordinance I believe some of them but hopefully we can amend it and to do this but anyway I can appoint Alia as my rosary though appointment like a fixture I know but I I already spoke to rosary and I told her I believe it's really important to have different people on boards and commissions and and to rotate it she it's it's a volunteer board she could still attend and come to meetings just like anyone in the community come to any meeting or or any a board or commission meeting um but I'm willing to I can appoint Alia as my appointment that way you can have her Miss hery as your as our council's an appointment as well as the gentleman that umid that's conf mind so I'm everything will get to serve everyone gets to serve Yes sounds good to me and we talked about this last time remember did you have I thought more people should have a no so clerk how how do we handle this now so the counil we're going to do the council consensus if you're doing individual appointments I'd appreciate it if you could send me an email to let me know who your appointments are I'll prepare the letters get them to you and and all of that tonight we're just going to do the council consensus so I would need if you have two give me both names and then we'll vote we can I guess if every everyone's in agreement we can vote on both of them together yep so who are the names Frank bars b a r SZ CZ oh my yeah b a r s is in Sam C is in Charlie no I'm sorry s is in Sam Z as in zebra c as in Charlie Z is in zebra wow yeah an older adult yes oh good I really feel like we should have older adults or caregivers on there yeah well he's an older adult he's the coolest older adult I know okay and who is the second one uh Rachel hery okay and I sent her resume around and it's h e r s y or S SE SE okay okay um okay so on those two nominees uh councilwoman celino uh yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams I'm gonna abstain because I don't know the other person okay I hav't read the resume so okay council president Rutherford yes okay it passes and boom okay good and then I just had a brief comment when was appropriate and then other other pending matters okay so about the older adults Advisory Board um we do need to clarify the procedures of the older adults Advisory Board to ensure that they are operating consistent with opma open public meetings act and Robert's Rules of Order there was an effort to rush through bylaws in a matter of days in a process that violated the opma and Robert's rules our seniors were told that if they got an email they were told if they didn't respond their vote would be counted as a yes and to sanction a secret ballot for electing the the next chair and the vice chair now many seniors have not even retrieved the correspondence or gotten the email the chair did not copy me on this femail and on the liaison and it was another senior who alerted me the B laws are very important and they need to be um very very out in the open um these practices of not being consistent with opma and Robert's Rules were condemned when our Township was sued in 2011 and I have the article and I want to enter it into the record for failing to promote a culture of transparency and openness um inv it had they had asked people not to come into the meeting they had them sitting outside I mean you can read it there's a whole whole they mean a person councilwoman yeah it had to do with the open space commit I remember and it was actually Linda Styles and another woman who was in her 90s was a lawyer I think um and I just I really feel that I want to um read The Rules of Order and the minutes that were amended because there was an ordinance 23 25-1 um councilwoman is that something that we're voting on is that something we're going to take an action on just a a process that I want to make sure but they they said we were going to vote on it so if it comes up we can't vote on it because this has to be done properly they said that they were wanted they wanted to put the these rules the yeah the bylaws together and then have us vote on it so it would maybe the older adult Advisory Board vote on bylaws no they wanted to put the bylaws together for us to vote for the Town Council to vote on it yes no they would vote they would they would vote not the council but then we vote on it abely we do vote on and and I don't know if they're planning on bringing it up at the next meeting but the bylaws are not ready they're not consistent with Robert's Rules in the how are they inconsistent with laws they are calling for a vote without being it open and this is what happens without what without being it open without everyone aot vote yeah a ballot without everyone being on the record what do you mean not on the record v a legal vote but and but this is what this was about that's really not open and it really should be you can do I'm trying to tell you if they have a vote at a meeting if they have a voted a meeting then to record and when the chair will and they will call on a teller someone to actually collect the ballots and when you V right when you vote on a president normally in an organization It Is by ballot it is not an open public vote I think in most in others no if you're going to say Robert's Rules I'm telling you what Robert's Rules says but it's not the way I think most people would like to see it done and well that's different than opma is you you you know you can't vote privately yeah can't but you can do a ballot vote it just has to be tabulated I don't have to say who I voted for as long as I do a a ballot and it's tallied and T and someone tallies it and then they read that into the record doesn't have to say that Tammy Williams voted for X think it but I think I don't I don't feel comfortable with that because don't you just count the ballots count the ballot in this where they did rules of the order in the minutes they said that the purpose of conducting the meeting is hold on hold on time out time out we have too many people talking at the same time hold on one second councilwoman Scarpa let's clarify this this particular issue before we move on Mr gross if if if you're operating under the rules of the open public meetings act you you have to you have to votee visibly you have if you vote if my vote is recorded John gross voted yes whatever it is and that's what this now you could do it on a piece of paper as long as I'm identified on that piece of paper you know but but but you have to identify yourself because you have to be responsible what what what if the control is and actually who is a voting member in in the the body whatever group it is in this case older adults they only hand out the ballots to the voting members and collect them from the voting members that doesn't but you're you're well first up this is an Advisory board so the fact that you're implementing open public meetings acts on Advisory Board probably is something that should be looked at because well this is what happen with the open space that so but but under the terms of the opma you have to disclose what your vote is does the open space but again this is an advisory committee right but open space committee Adis space is not not okay so then that inlies the difference is an Advisory Board and for because of our ordinances do say that that our that our committees operate under opma that's right that might be something and they need to need to they need to and they need to be open and I think everyone should go on record and that's exactly what this suit was about if you're going to have opma you don't vote by email no you you have a meeting nominate someone everyone goes everybody votes they on the record and that's the on the record that's the key time place members presence subjects considered actions taken the vote of each member and other appropriate information are you reading from I'm voting from 20 2325 the Amendments that we had to do as a result of this lawsuit let's be clear the lawsuit was from 2011 it's not about the older adults Advisory Board no it's about a different board with the same but it's not the same type of board that's what I just asked him it is a different type of board it is a different board but it doesn't matter but it's an Advisory Board I mean they have bonding Authority they have they they're they have money they have over a million dollars in open space right now they don't have any power to spend money no but they we pay an additional we just voted on raising it maybe two years ago Authority not saying that they can spend it but that money is for open space Rec and that is the body that makes the recomendations regarding all right time out time out time out it's a statutory it's different because it's a statutory committee this it's required within the statutes to have but it is still only an advisory committee right well I I understand that but they're the only advisory committee at least in the now four years that I've been on the council that has any money direct directed to them automatically statutorily there's nothing directed to them what did we vote on timeout timeout no no no they they their job is to we're you we collect the money from the taxpayers you make a decision how that's spent they make recommendations to you about how the where the community thinks that money should be spent that that's right but that money is what is it called what is that tax call the tax when we've raised it by a mill open space it's open space it's what is it called open space open space and what is this committee open space Recreation and who makes the recommendations for how that stuff I know we can make recommendations too I know the mayor can make recommendations too but pedestrian safety can't tell us how can't make a recommendation on on on how to spend open space money uh older adults can't make a recommendation on how to spend no no they can't they could we could no one's listening to a budget we could of course don't though we might this is now we're looking like clowns again all right continue please continue no but the point is what's fair is fair I got a letter from one of the seniors who felt like she was being exploited she and she said this is my understanding is that senior did not respond to four different requests for feedback two of them didn't even get them Rosary didn't get it Elmer didn't get it nobody knew what was going on this cannot go on like this this is disgusting and the and the person who said how unfair it was got a response from another member who said I agree with you this is not right I mean this has to be done open honest do you have minutes from your meetings I'm sure we do have you have you excuse me one second excuse me have you reviewed those minutes no I haven't had a chance to do that but regardless of what no here's the point about that coun had a full discuss here's the here's the point if someone is voted on to handle addressing the bylaws and that someone then goes in multiple meetings and says hey I'm the one you guys voted on me to handle the bylaws give me your suggestions hold on never it's not a committee of one important enough it's not a committee of one if that person says I need your help here's what we're doing and no one wants to help no one says anything than the chair happy to help well you didn't because you were in those meetings too I would be happy to you didn't and and no one knew that they were going to be sent an email and asked to make a you were asked in person multiple times if you wanted to help with the bylaws directly nobody else would do it and she reached out to me of course I would have helped her asked you directly multiple times no she didn't how do you in the meeting answer me direct were you in the meeting was in all the meetings right and she asked you and everyone else in the meeting and and you didn't say anything we will have a committee because there's another person who is very disgusted with this process understand I am and certainly being on a committee with her to do it right and she she's not doing it right is that what you're saying I don't know who's doing but I don't think no this was not president I make a suggestion sure that we ask Mr Tran to speak to the chair of the commit just to make sure that they understand what the proper procedures are and give them a chance to fix this internally I think that's a wise decision well I would like to see a committee formed and I actually don't think it would be a bad idea for us all to have a course on Robert's Rules I think you're right we also need other courses but you're in the meeting you can ask for the committee you're none of us are in the meeting we only come when you need support put me on the email that's why I'm bringing it up okay because obviously they tried to slide this through there's nothing that we can do on that there's literally nothing that we can do on that tonight there's nothing I'll just get to your attention in case we're asked to vote on it okay and we'll Rectify it when we have the meeting hopefully okay what else do we have I I wanted to make a recommendation you said that we were going to reconsider and visit some ways that we can cut down on our meeting time um so I have a couple of suggestions that we public comment to those in council chambers perhaps is something we consider um I think that the clerk um propose that as a way to minimize our time here um so I would like for us to entertain that I I think that's right I think in the new way of doing things that's a tough one I do thank you for your suggestions of which that was one um another was to limit the amount of time uh both by the number of minutes per speaker as well as having a a firm cut off um I think we should discuss all three of those and some others um but I I would be loathed to not allow Zoom participants to comment because we are now moving into a digital age one of the Mee one of the Committees that I'm on does not meet in person anymore and probably never will and most people at this time of day get out people with children I mean that would be that's a non I echo my Council colleagues uh sentiments I don't think it's fair to only l in Person Public comment and not allow people on Zoom I mean we're elected officials we work for the people you have to let them speak and let and hear them um any anyone's allowed to speak um I mean someone can come here and sing the star spingle banner for five minutes and we'd have to listen to them right it's their right to public comment I'm sure if Mr Tren was still here he'll explain why legally we have to let people speak but I don't think that we should curtail it to just um to folks inside I think it's important everyone has a voice and that we hear their voice can I make a recommendation sure so I think I sent this out a while ago when Madame clerk you know because uh we had started this conversation a couple like months ago on on uh prior meetings and we've been debating this for quite some time because once we went on Zoom very hard to get us off the zoom and I I you know but the school district has done it and uh you have to be in person there but I think we have to just doesn't sound like the support's here tonight I highly recommend that we keep with the format that we just instated with having agenda items first and then the anything else in regards to public comment where we have it now leave that but I would support going to three minutes on public comment because majority of the time folks are taking the five minutes because they can majority of the time they're getting their commentary or questioning done within three minutes and I think we should well well again if you want to shorten meeting a time one at a time if you want to shorten the meetings everyone's still GNA speak so you get to stay home or you come in person and you get three minutes I mean some of the issues and keep in mind let me let because everybody wants to speak let me acknowledge folks speak are you done councel no okay thank you so and I watch school board meetings we started this years ago with the three minutes and parents are very passionate I have a lot to speak about for their for their children and they're able to get it done in three minutes so I think you get done what you need to get done done if you anybody else you write that long email look at our meeting last week five hours and with all those speakers two minutes would it eliminated probably an hour so more you know yeah there were 633 I just feel like some of the issues are so complex that they take more time than well that is true but when you are looking at I'm sorry council president thank you madam clerk Mr gross just a just a short backup to your point right now you're giving um residents speakers anybody who comes five minutes yeah if you go to the the the the bif forade at two and two and and each of those are three minutes they actually are getting an extra minute potential to get up and speak total six minutes out of the meeting so while it it may seem going to three is actually a reduction if you break it up into two It's actually an increase they always come back and finish comment and and yet but it's well I think it's a well um paced it might might help change the pace that that's just Madam clerk well I was just going to say the majority of the people do get their point across within three minutes and if you are listening to them after that time they're kind of repeating the same thing and just expanding but they they've gotten their point across within that three minute period so and it holds your interests and then be done with it you know the thing is we tried to do this in January and everyone rejected it we had a lot of people came out and were very very upset about it okay Mr Smo president 63 residents at five minutes each is five hours and 25 25 minutes five and a quar hour six uh three minutes each is three hours and 15 minutes yeah so there you go can you just say anything else about this that I no I get it I I I think so so there were a few options and one of your options was um having a public comment open for a period of time meaning you know as many people that wanted to comment could comment up until X time 10m or something then you get up then nobody else you don't hear yeah in the public I don't think that's good if I've been here and I have something to say and I didn't get in the queue and everybody has another opportunity then you're silenc in the public so I'm not agree with that that's not fair that's not fair it's interesting use the word CU that's also another alternative you have you can give people a chance to get into the queue and want and and and put a cut off on that on the Queue and say you have such such time to put in that you want to speak so if and and then then whatever time it takes and you go through the queue but nobody you don't get the last minute hey you know now that you mentioned it I want to well that's what happened last week people people weren't in the queue and then heard other people's comments and they suggestion that I wait but Council woman L and finish oh sorry I also wanted to just iterate that at the board of bed meetings for our Township if you're not in person you don't get to speaked and also in other municipalities and I would like for Madam clerk to confirm this do they allow public comment in our 21 other municipalities um if you're not in if you're not in person and if you could just give us that data I think it's unfortunate that we're making the assumption when I know specifically other towns where you don't get to speak if you're not in public right right yeah I can look into just because another town does it doesn't mean it or does or does not do it does not mean they are right that was not my point my point was that I heard your point this do have to be an argument it is a conversation let's try and keep it civil I'm civil I'm just saying my was based on my um one other suggestion that I read actually was part of the open public meetings Act was to to have people um sign up for public comment that's prior to the meeting prior to the meeting to the meeting so wasn't that in your email too no I saw where did I hear that from someone else said that I've heard that before said that before people wanted to sign up I don't I don't think signing up because that may come at the last minute and if I miss the sign up again I think that's an opportunity to silence um I also think that we should go back to just having one one public comment um that's my opinion I don't think we should break it up like we did before yeah because some we're not getting anybody at the end anyway but some are comp to deal public who might want to actually say something and have something to say and I have to wait until the end until one or midnight or I think I mean either way we're here to serve the public this is our role this is the oath that we took and we have to hear them I hear you guys I hear what you saying but this is what we signed up for this the labor of love like I have to agree if I had to be here till hold on we have to listen to everyone and you know if that means we have to like recess and then continue I don't know but I'm hoping that we don't have too many more meetings that go that way and if we do have another controversial subject maybe we'll have a special meeting instead of having you know five hours on on public comment but again that's our duty to listen to every single person one second Mr G one second think we should split it I think we should go back to one public comment so um excuse me you're gonna do three minutes with one public comment she wants five five minutes can't limit the public so so there are other there excuse me councilwoman just a moment good people let's so I I understand all of these comments I think there are other options too um one of one of those options is to allow more public comment outside of this um this meeting so you know we don't have office hours but maybe if we had office hours no why not people want to be they want to be heard they want their voice heard on well so that's different right if you're making public comment because you want to be on the screen that's different than because you want to get your point across to the people that are actually going to make the decision the people all the time we could do that that I think that would make sense that people office out people could come direct defitely need big council members in that direction someone that may want to talk to councilwoman castelino may want to also talk to me may also want to talk to you they want to talk to all of us so office hours and and saying they can come to us we're at large so we should have there should not be any restrictions or parameters council members at large also hold office hours it's not just restricted to WS but the point we're the point I'm making is there are other options aside from what have been discussed and I think we need to consider consider them fully because here's the downside to not cutting the meeting we're doing the residents a disservice by debating important matters at 11: 12 one o'clock in the morning none of us are at our best all of us do stuff during the day none of us at least that I'm aware of are getting and that before we come here so it's it's it's it's it's doing them a disservice because we're not at our best staff is here at 3 o' in right they're they're stuck here as well so we've got to find a way there has to be a way and and ultimately at some point in time if there isn't a way we're going to end up having a bad outcome something won't get done in a timely fashion or something will get past the council uh that shouldn't or may not get voted on at all I I think that is the direction we're headed in staying here till 1 two in the morning like we did the last time and many other times and and I mean I think we should at least try three minutes because everybody still gets to talk but you get three minutes I I don't I won't I can't agree to that well there has I I just you know everybody said that you know we have to find a way to cut the can't agree and yet nobody's willing the spirit of compromise ation can we do four minutes in the spirit of compromise we're at five can we go can we go to four I think four is not enough respect well in that last meeting it would have saved us an hour and 12 minutes so you don't think four is enough to cut or you don't think it's four is enough for them to speak I think we should do I agree I'm I've always been you got you've got some that are in agreement for three some that are in agreement for five in the spirit of compromise at least until we try it and see how it works out I I just feel strongly because I've been watching this for so many years and most points are taken three minutes like timing it watching it most points are three minutes so are you willing to push three and then get a no right are you willing to I like to put out there for three to see what kind of I mean we could just raise our hand because again it's not an ordinance we got to do an ordinance is anybody interested we already voted against so okay so now what do you want four I don't want four but I'm willing to compr if it'll if it'll cut off some time I want five I'll sit here till 4 o' I've said it many times I'm willing to here as long as it takes I apprciate this is what I signed up for it's not about sitting here being sign up for smart decision to not be able to bite each other's head off after a specific hour it's about being responsible to the employees that are required to be here they don't get to come to work late the next day they have to be here here I think we're we're I mean when you say I signed up for this you signed up to make irresponsible decisions in the we hours of the morning I don't think that's what you signed up for and you may not agree with me on this but ultimately it's GNA come down to an issue of credibility that the public sees that on and on and on oh my gosh you are so right I agree forget name let's go to what is wrong with your people it's already out there that is already that's not commun absolutely not we've had this conversation the trust in local government is being eroded certainly by the bickering and the snide comments and remarks and the lack of the ability to focus during the meeting and not repeat what someone else has said so you know in the sake of that in the spirit of that uh if we can get four minutes I I'd be happy i' be happy to go there Council mgber mik hey lost I'll get back remember 11:30 yeah I also think that you need to be aware that it's disrespectful to the public as well who is staying up some people do stay up got year really right not many everyone else except for two have left there probably 40 30 people on Zoom right 31 yeah and then I get that are on Zoom are doing whatever else they need to do they're halfway engage for the most part until it's something that's really relevant to them and then they will continue to re-engage but at the end of the day the when you are at home on Zoom it gives you the luxury of having an opportunity to pay attention but at some point we have to prioritize people who come out and come into this chamber Council m m um oh no again you're too young to do that I know I bring BL Co their times a charm oh yeah that happens um that's wow so we'll come back so can we just do a straw poll real quick um who is in favor of four minutes moving from five to four minutes for public comment three and a half no there's two okay so so I mean we're just going to continue looking like a bunch of fools staying out here till 1 and two in the morning arguing over things that terrible could have been handled are we keeping the same format Council I I do think I do think one of the things you could do went back to this idea of the queue really would have no impact on public other than they had to make a decision to get into it early is is for the first half hour of open you know the open uh public comment to say you have you get you have to put yourself into the queue in the first 30 minutes 20 minutes pick a number and then then you then you know that how many people they're going speaking and you can judge the meeting accordingly how you're going to what you're going to do if there's a few small number of people you put them right up front if there's a large you can say well we've got business we have to do we're going to rearrange the schedule and then do public comment you will take the first 10 now and the next 10 you know you know your Universe right now you have no idea what your universe is when you start this off you don't know whether you're gonna get six or six no we don't so so logistically how would that work for people in person how would they sign up in the queue in person I mean I know how it would H happen on give them no you don't how would happened on Zoom I can't prevent people from raising their hand even if we want to cut them off um they just keep well we can ask that we could ask them to send in an email who's monitoring that that's so much work that's cler would have to give us a list well it would be a list it would be about but first all if if it's something you're interested in rather than figure something out at 11:30 at night if it's something that you're interested in what with the process well give us something to give us a recommendation and then we can consider it at their next meeting it's next Tuesday um but we do have to do something and and one of the things that we can do the five of us is not repeat go ahead now before you forget yes and that's what I was going to bring up is our response to public comment sometimes is extremely long I mean my record last year I think I was spoke the least honestly but I think that we should really limit what how much we say how much we repeat I think we should go by subject matter instead of sitting there and repeating every single person's name if 15 people talk about the same thing just reference a subject matter you don't sit there and say so and so and so and so and so and so because when you go through that list of 20 or 30 or 40 people now you're taking a minute per person two minutes per person I think our comments should be brief five minutes at most as well um I know that we can't limit elected officials or tell elected officials how long they can speak but I think that as but I'm just saying as a courtesy I was told we couldn't so because I this is something that I've mentioned set in the past and you live by but for myself I generally like to speak anywhere from three you know two to five four minutes and keep it brief and then save my remarks when we actually discuss them in the resolution or the ordinance instead of being repetitive so that's what I wanted to say thank accountable so so yeah you know furthering that thought um some of the snide comments they then they require a response because it's all politics at that point and that I think we can keep out um of this meeting I don't everybody has social media if you want to trash somebody you want to say something s say it just not in here like in here let's focus at the end of the day all of us have a responsibility to what's on the agenda and your votes speak for themselves so um if someone has already said something don't please don't feel the need to elaborate on it or to go through it if if if it is a critical or very important Point acknowledge it I agree with councilwoman celino on this point I agree with councilman this one on that point and move on without all of the commentary um and that's not just during public comment but that's all also when we're pulling resolutions or discussing ordinances a lot of what we do is repeat what others have already said if you agree you agree um it doesn't need to be stated and then you know when the campaign comes around you can elaborate but in here let's not do that I mean I would year though so it's incredible that we are trying to I mean to your point I think you told me one time that I'm going to say what I want to say respectfully I think if someone has something that they want to say I may not agree with all the points that you made the way that you make them so I want to make my own points and they may be repetitive of something that someone said but it may not be in in total so I mean you know we have to govern ourselves accordingly we're all adults I don't think it's necessary for anybody to tell something what they should say or what they shouldn't say I would agree good effort but I but try and silence me or tell me what should shouldn't say complely agree so I think it's disingenuous to say I'm trying to silence you because I'm not and that's exactly what I'm talking about right like you can get your point across without being nasty and that's I'm saying not nasty stat it doesn't help that that reiterated something that's specific that you said to me last year which was you're going to speak when you want to speak no matter what it is you want to say and how that is absolutely untrue go get the tape and show me the tape where I said those words that didn't come out of my mouth now you and I are different types of leaders but here's the point we all have a professional experience and none of this Behavior I I know I've never worked at a place where I could do any of what we do in here and not be fired but this is government so your firing will come with the vote of the public that's how you get fir I think we should we should we should live up to the call that we have which is to govern ourselves as elected officials and whether we agree or not on an issue there are people that support both Council people or neither this isn't the time to raise that support or or try and chip away at somebody else's support or say something to undermine or do like let's get the business done and that's all I'm saying I think we are mature enough at least I hope we are to not engage in the pettiness that we've been engaging in like last year and I look I was on the council for two years prior to that you were too it was nowhere near as Petty it had been contentious it had been difficult it was nowhere near as Petty or as long as last year and that we we I mean I can't how many times can we stay out here till two in the morning councilman you can't sit here and call me or tell me that I am acting like a child when I will not stop talking and I am entitled to respond and say that we're not Petty you're not Petty that is petty that is petty well you can call what you want I'm I'm I'm trying my best to have a level of deor in here and and look you don't make it easy I'm trying my best to get us to a better place it is not easy but it takes all of us to do it so look I mean we're going to be here till we're not right we're going to be here till the meeting is over until it's ajour I think if we are intentional about what we say and how we say it like we are in all of our other spaces then we'll get out of here quicker Now is it going to shave two hours off like taking two minutes off a public comment probably not but it will take something off and it'll take something off every single week we're going to get some recommendations from the administration I encourage each of us to submit recommendations via email do not reply all um so that we can have a a conversation about it before we get to next meeting and then when we get to the meeting we can just decide on what we're going to do right that would be lovely make here yeah we to make a motion to adjourn as the council second okay all in favor any oppos okay okay no recess yeah we're not adjuring sorry somebody did say J but it's recess so sorry so sorry forgot that public comment we do there nobody to there's nobody from public there no we did that already No non- Agenda items we didn't do oh yeah but we but it's scheduled after the ABC hearing correct public comment there are 31 people on raised I thought he asked already no no no time out time out time out the agenda has public comment after the ABC hearing public comment is the on non-agenda items is the last thing that we do before we go according to this agenda and I'm not willing to change it I don't think anybody else is because we got to get through the ABC hearing that should take us two seconds yes it won't take long at all so so we W supposed toess Recess Recess ABC yeah now you're ABC Board yes just to be correct for the record we uh a motion to recess not ajour not to okay so so these three resolutions have to do with misties restaurant and bar Inc so this was a um a little bit of a strange pie so uh the owner of Missy M misties Nelly Beck decided to close her restaurant yes she held on to her license so her accountant for whatever reason to this day I don't understand he filed paperwork to basically like I don't know the word but to basically like disengage like she just shut her down completely so she went out of the system in the you know Division of Taxation whatever so when it came time for her to renew her license you have to get tax clearance every year to renew your license she could not get her tax clearance because they had no record of her business oh jeez at all so it took her months and months and months and months months to get it straightened out her daughter and her she would come here her daughter would call me it was it was awful she finally got it straightened out she filed paperwork she got her tax clearance she paid her fees so I went ahead and I renewed her however I did not realize that she never renewed it was an oversight because she was supposed to renew for 2223 when all this going on and she was unable to do so but because I saw that she got her tax clearance and she got her she paid her fees whatever I went ahead and renewed her renewed her license which I should not have done uh for which year for 2223 I'm sorry for 2324 because she never renewed in 2223 because this is when all the nonsense was going on so I renewed her for 23 24 without her having renewed for 2223 I just found this out literally like a week ago ABC called me and I was I was looking for the you know renal and I was like oh God I never renewed her you know all it was a big big okay it was terrible so I have to resend that part of the ordinance 724 23 because there were other lenes listed on there so the part of that ordinance will be rescinded where it lists her that will be taken off okay and then I had to renew her for 2022 23 and then 2023 24 yeah it's very confusing it was just a mess um I still don't understand why the accountant did what he did um nor does she or her daughter maybe they were trying to um sell that license I don't well she could have done that who the the the accountant oh I don't I don't know I don't know so they got it all straightened out eventually took a lot of work on their part her daughter um they're lovely people so um that's what I'm asking to you can I ask a question on the establishment itself so so she's no longer in operation correct it's a pocket license so it's a pocket license now okay so and there's a new restaurant in her old location are they getting a license have they applied yet or anything which restaurant is it so doesn't um um they don't have a name yet well I'm they have a LLC name I I can't remember it's it's it's next to La M main Miss question they're not done they did but obviously they're not taking hers hers they're not gonna be buying hers obviously yeah they did get another license did they bought a license from someone else obviously she couldn't sell hers because she had all the SM okay got it okay but I don't know if she wants to sell it anyway um okay so so I guess them all at the same time or I would do them individually I I'm not sure so I don't want to say yes so 7:30 resends what was already done right that's part of 2223 and 732 does 23344 right exactly okay okay but all right we have to take those separate all right yeah uh well he's not here so separate I would do him separate all right so is there a motion to approve okay uh councilwoman Celina yes councilwoman gber Mel councilwoman councilwoman Williams council president retherford yes okay 731 to renew for 2223 so moved second okay councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gich councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president rord yes okay and 7:32 to renew for 2324 so move second okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman G Michael councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president rur yes okay now is there a motion to uh adjourn as ABC and go back in okay okay all in favor I any opposed none okay thank you okay so we're back in our council meeting and now it's time for public comment uh please alert the zoom F uh audience that we are um opening public well before we do that is anyone in uh person um want to have public comment on non-agenda items for tonight thank you gentlemen Mr with a laugh of the zoom audience wishing to address Town Council please raise your hand there were a few hands raised now is the opportunity to speak to the Town Council this will be the last call for public comment this evening any member of the zoom audience wishing to address the Town Council please raise your hand council president I am seeing none here we go um I offer motion to ajournal meeting is all in favor any opposed nope I came thank you West Orange have a good night thank you gentlemen still here Zoom audience Mr Fagan Administration police officers Council colleagues thank you