a [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] get going so thank you sir uh good evening everyone I want to welcome you all to our ninth Town council meeting uh we have uh quite a packed agenda certainly early in the meeting so I would like to get started right away uh Madam clerk this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman celino is on her way councilwoman gber Michael oh she's here she just stepped out okay councilwoman Scarpa present councilwoman Williams present council president Rutherford mayor McCartney oh uh Madam clerk we have to make some adjustments to our agenda um what I'd like to do is begin with the swearing in of Miss director kabalo um Madame mayor while she comes I uh certainly welcome our cheerleaders who we will be acknowledging tonight uh but we are going to uh switch the order around a little bit so you will unfortunately not be next uh but you will be soon Madame mayor good evening council president Council colleagues thank you very much um thank you for putting us up at B first um and really for welcoming zth it's been a short time but I'm so pleased that she is on our team and has done outstanding paid such outstanding attention to all of the applications that have come in over the past year um and I thank you for the advice and consent for her to be our Township engineer okay is it there the Bible someone to hold it the Chief will do it and I support the constition of the United States was United States that I will Faithfully that I will fa imp and justly perform and justly perform all the of the good evening everyone uh good evening to our audience to uh those who are in zoom and of course to our council president our council members I want to say thank you very much to the previous administration and the current Administration and the mayor for this opportunity I am very excited and I hope to do this job to the best of my abilities I also want to thank my staff Miss ven avento Mr Williams Mr McCarthy thank you so much for all your help day in and day out I also want to thank our supervisors and our director of Po works for all their help and all their institutional knowledge that keeps making me able to do my job every day in NL thank you very much and thank you for the opportunity once again thank you director you are an absolute asset to us orange and we're happy to see you this morning tonight um yeah director you want to take another picture take a phot in the front May oh sure get and next we are going to have the proclamation for love and unity day uh Mr Brer I see is here um Madame mayor are you doing this as well no councilwoman good evening West Orange something that we need in West Orange in any town and every town is love and unity but today we're going to celebrate love and unity day in West Orange and this Proclamation is going to be formally presented on May 17th but we wanted to make sure we gave the proper acknowledgement at our town council meeting this evening so it reads whereas there is a pressing need for conflict management and unity in our current social justice environment and whereas given the societal challenges we Face we must provide our community the opportunities to celebrate what unifies us love and unity Day offers a platform that transcends race religion and culture fostering inclusivity and solidarity among all residents of West Orange and whereas love and unity day aligns with the Township's commitment to Civic engag ment and Community empowerment thereby encouraging activities promoting love and unity through Collective action we can serve as a Beacon of Hope and inspiration to other municipalities grappling with similar challenges and whereas in addition to its local impact love and unity day has the potential to resonate beyond the boundaries of West Orange and offers an invaluable opportunity to seow seeds of unity and focus on the positives that bind us together fostering a culture of inclusivity and compassion Paving the way for a more harmonious future now therefore be it resolved that Susan McCartney mayor and the West Orange Township council do hereby designate May 17th as love and unity day in the township of West Orange and encourages the community to join in the advocacy efforts that will be done and presented throughout that week thank you and Mr car Brer music Village would you please join me at the podium to receive this Proclamation another one well he's gonna speak well thank you thank you um mayor McCartney councilwoman Tammy Williams and to our residents and community and to that my high school and uh talented group of students that are here I I want to say thank you so much um this in my opinion is a shared moment and I have to begin by first sharing thanks to my God that I my faith which I am a Christian and I thank God for showing me what love really is and I also share this with my my wife this is my wife everybody Beverly brist and all these images that you see all the banners around town the websites every flyer everything you see online been created by Beverly Brer so if I if you were join just thank you and these are my two sons Justin and Jordan yes this is um they are the inspiration from which this began and I also like to quickly thank Caren Alexander and councilwoman Tammy Williams for writing this and and presenting this to the mayor mayor McCartney so please thank you as well I will be I will be brief um when I I say this is a shared moment it's because sharing is how this this this began it began with nine years ago from a a conversation across the fence me sharing with my neighbor who is White and her sharing with me and we having children the same age growing up together and all on the new cycle was nothing nothing but racial violence hate crimes it all dominated the news and we shared with one another How concerned we were for this world that our kids were going to goow up in and then I shared I shared an idea with the township and idea to bring our community together in love through music and and the Arts and just have a day where artists are celebrated from all genres of music that would bring all of us together in love and where our community organizations could be there as well and they get to share information that would Empower all of us and give us the opportunity to get involved and make a difference it started with sharing and now that day eight years later last year became love and unity week I didn't you and now it's a week of shared moments um when you attend a loveing Unity week event you share you share in a collective statement that every child every student every person of every persuasion of every identity of every faith of every culture in this community matters and we're all important and we all belong here here because of who we are and that we each have the power to bring more love and unity into the community because it it it starts with all of us it starts with you and it starts with me it starts with each of us collectively sharing a thought that love is the primary ingredient to Unity without it without loving one another it cannot be done we cannot have Progressive and productive conversations and we we cannot move forward without love and so starting next week we get to share again from May 13th through the 18th love and unity week the second year begins and it begins right here right here at town hall right outside these doors our opening event hosted by councilwoman Tammy Williams we have all students from our high schools and middle schools creating beautiful works of art right outside on our steps and we will have West Orange artists in Residence Kevin Brooks who's here and Bo mcferson who will be helping and beautiful works of arts and the community is invited to come as well there'll be music and that evening we travel down the street to Washington school and they're hosting our official opening our official kickoff and throughout this whole week next week there'll be master classes and workshops and panel discussions on how to resolve differences on hip hop culture and writing and using our art to impact the community and every night I'm so excited every night there'll be free free public events around the Arts comedy spoken word where six of our talented high school and middle school writers will be featured there will be a first International dance night where we show through dance how we're all connected through movement from wherever we are we're connected and these dances are coming from all over New New Jersey to be here to share with us their share your story authors 25 authors as St Cloud's diversity uh St Cloud's diversity Council has assembled to just share their stories free for the community and finally The Ninth Annual love and unity Fest will happen at Liberty school on Saturday May 18th 16 acts performing throughout the day and for the first time we'll have five scholarship recipients from music Village who are pursuing the Arts they will be performing and three of those five come from right here in West Orange if that's not a reason to celebrate I don't know what it is but I want to close by sharing sharing can only be done when there's a reciprocation we are a nonprofit organization we only exist on your support you're you're saying hey we appreciate what you're doing and we're going to help you we need two things if you're honoring loveing Unity day then please share your time and come out come out to some of the events and if you align with this mission of bringing the community together and would like to share your support through giving please visit our website at Music village. Live where there are opportunities for you to give to help us do what we do and to move forward so we as a community can continue to inspire unity in our community Through the Arts thank you so much thank you mayor McCartney and thank you councilwoman Tammy Williams thank you everybody for than it literally doesn't make difference just when they vot for V thank you well thank you Mr Brer and the music Village Family um next we will have the West Orange pal Mustangs competition cheer team thank you council president and uh thank you to the mayor for letting me to present this as a as a former palal Mom it it means a lot to me to see the program grow in the way it has over the years and I want to thank the palal board Cheryl merklinger and the entire uh staff there so thank you P Board and thank you to uh uh Carl and and his family beautiful family for all the beautiful things that you do for our community and I hope the weather uh works for you uh next week um because that is important to have a great event I know it will be so we hopefully the weather will cooperate so ladies congratulations you had a great season a lot of hard work and what is so uh great to see here is the ambition that you have we know the commitment the time commitment that you put in into all your accomplishments I'm going to read off in a second and what you learned from the palal is that um that hard work pays off that the time that you put in and the discipline that you put into your um cheer craft will take you all the way throughout your academic careers as you move up to our high school so congratulations and and thank you to all the parents who drive you to all the competitions as a parent parents because as as we know as we know uh as parents you know there a lot of long weekends but they're great weekends there are great memories for the parents and for the families I know I miss them it's been 20 years since my daughter was in the program and I really really miss them so I'm very excited whenever I get a sneak peek of you are seeing all your accomplishments and just as I said just seeing the program grow through the years it used to not have this um caliber of competition and that's because you have to have a lot of dedication and again because of that dedication that's going to move you forward as you enter into your high school years and later on in life so keep up the hard work ladies I'm gonna ask the coaches to come up here please coaches uh Taylor kixo Cheryl merklinger and Jessica Shante and before I read this off I just want to see if our uh trustee and uh coach would like to say a few words about her team thank you everyone uh for coming out today thank you council members mayor McCartney um and of course our parents our pal family for coming out today um we can't do what we do without your support so I truly appreciate everyone in the community coming out to all of our events um and the support that you give uh the palal is an all volunteer-based organization all of our coaches are volunteers we are a nonprofit so um we're really fortunate when folks like Jessica uh she couldn't be here today because she has physical therapy from softball um but when girls like Jessica come back who have been through the program and come back to help and teach you guys different techniques um you know and really be in the weeds with you um the competition tier team was on Hiatus for quite some time um but coach Taylor klio again couldn't be here tonight but so I apologize but she was a former USA cheerleader so we're very fortunate to have her on staff um she was also a former Western High School coach um and she had been working with myself as we are the youth uh program the Feer program to the high school so um we want to get back into the competition world but then unfortunately covid hit so kind of put a hold on things um but then about a year ago some of the girls here came to myself and said hey coach charl like we really want to do this competition thing you know we're seeing all these other girls these other talents and programs that have it can we do it and I called up Taylor and she was more than happy to jump on board and put the plans we had had um into action so um one of my favorite quotes is from Aristotle it's the whole is greater um than the sum of all its parts and the no true words are said than a competition cheer team in order for a stunt to go up you need to have all the parts in order for a dance routine to look in sync you have to have every member there um and these girls put in a lot of sweat a lot of Tears a lot of grit and determination um and with that they were able to accomplish an amazing speed I'll let Michelle go through all of those uh competitions um but I just want to say thank you to all of you it was an amazing season um these girls worked really hard um and I couldn't ask for a better team so thank you so much for everyone and the simplest lesson of all there is no I when you spell the word team okay with that um I'm going to let you P your ladies up but before we do the West Orange PL competition Cher team represented West Orange with a 60 record this is quite an accomplishment impact January Jam Brookdale Community College first place 14U non- tumble UCA just cheer 24th annual cheer competition Montville High School first place 14U non- tumble USC U UCA rather Roxy Rumble Roxbury high school first place 14U non- tumble UCA a Verona winter cheer classic Verona High School first place 14U non tumble UCA David beerley Bears animal annual competition David gley high school first place 14U non- tumble UCA impact last team standing American Dream all very cool first place last team standing 14U non tumble UCA nicely done yes uh on behalf of the mayor and my colleagues at the West Orange Township Council we are all proud to recognize and congratulate the Cher team on their excellent sportsmanship and wishes them continue s success in the future thank you so much and let's have up here here's this council president you assist and okay okay ready yeah yeah yeah guys see that we're going to take a picture with you when we're done so once you get your certificate just fill in behind the DAT okay Ariana lobin Autumn B Autumn Brooklyn mland Brooklyn Eva climi faam Hasley Gabrielle Philipe Isabella Danny jar F Smith Jessica Garcia kale Delisa I'm gonna say your name any Karly ju Amy Kimberly Lopez Lani Yasin harass Harris thank you Leila Scott leelin peroski meline rinsler Michaela gothy Michelle aalor Mira hanstrom Molly pelison Morgan Cox Morgan mle Nani Alvarez I like your shirts too Olivia rabaza Olivia LTA Sarah Crowley Sophia Cino Su Mish show and Wier McCoy congratulations and parents you could come up and take a picture and these are get everybody okay she's up here ready can everybody push in this way like turn side a little bit everybody look this way that hold the pose I think there's a few parents here everybody good you're welcome thank you great job great you ready for the lower moderate income uh I don't know why they have 7:30 there so I'm going to go to low moderate income housing the environmental consultant okay I think this gentleman who's doing lower don't know this gentleman is from f thank you everyone and congratulations again Mustangs I appreciate than um yeah so the attorney so um I think we should have the public comment I think you know people are gon to expect that so thank you everyone we're going to be called back to OD I want to uh invite uh representative from Piaza Associates uh for our low and moderate income housing Lottery presentation um good evening everyone okay just one more second let we'll let a few more folks leave you want to follow I think we all have to leave and she goes we all have to go thank you sir floor is yours tough facts to follow very very uh Pleasant actually uh Madame mayor council president and members of the council my name is uh Frank pza I've been um working on affordable housing for 30 years now um we've been engaged by the developer of Stonehill to serve as the administrative agent for that property that means that we basically helped to set up the marketing plan for the property we sent notices out to many different groups including um employers advocacy groups and others throughout the region we've placed ads in papers set up a couple of web pages at the State website my own website and all all for the purpose of affirmatively marketing the affordable units at Stonehill um there are 64 one two and three bedroom units at the property so one thing that I wanted to do this evening is to the one thing that I wanted to do this evening is is to explain the rest of the process that we're going to be uh utilizing to fill the units there um thank you very much so this is um I brought Flyers that people can take on their way out it has a QR code for Stonehill on our website as well well as for affordable housing in General on our website so I really would encourage everyone who's interested in affordable housing to take a flyer because um the deadline for submitting an application for this property for the 64 affordable units at the property is as you'll see May 22nd so it's very important if you're interested or if you know somebody who's interested please to um bring them a flyer send them a flyer give them the information so that they can go online and apply for an affordable unit so the first part of the process is basically um started about two months ago and will'll end on the 22nd of May and that's where we Market the property and gather um applications preliminary applications from throughout the region and the state so you'll see here on our web page a lot of information that's really helpful a lot about the units at the property that are um the afford that will be the affordable units so there's the basic deadline date here the address this is the preliminary application I'm going to show you that in just a second but if you scroll down all the necessary information or a lot of it is here and you can take a look at it so here you have the monthly incomes this is the rent for each of the different types of units there's three categories very low low and moderate income the rent per month is here whether it's a one-bedroom low very low low and moderate now the rents on this particular property do not include water sewer gas and electric each tenant pays that on their own but the rents have been discounted in order to um help the tenants pay for those because that's all part of the calculation so the rents have been downwardly adjusted for that purpose and you'll see the minimum income here on this other um column the minimum income is based on the rental rate and utility schedule here you have the maximum incomes and that is based on the household size in for this region so you'll see here that a threers household uh very low income maximum income would be 34942 low 58 237 and moderate maximum 931 180 so you see the range is pretty significant from the very low side of one person household to 27,000 all the way up to a Sixers household can earn up to 120,000 in income so it's a pretty broad um a broad uh Pro program you have unit features here um including all the the um what the developer has given to us as being part and parti of the units the property amenities another very long list of um amazing amenities that will be available to the residents there and then you have floor plans you can take a look at the floor plans in detail all you do is click on them they come up very you know significantly large as a PDF if you need it to take a look at those and then there's other um application information terms and conditions and such at the bottom two um cool Downs here you'll see the important thing to know that if the first step is to get on the preliminary application list and you do that simply by filling out the preliminary application form here and it's all done online it doesn't take that long it's a few pages um there's only a couple of few questions on each page so there's not a lot of information that you need to insert there really we need to get you on the list in order to um be available at the random selection so the let me just explain just really briefly because I think that that was one of the the um request what the random selection means so after May 22nd we're going to take a look at the list we have to kind of go through take out the duplicates and um make sure that every you know that it's a legit list at that point we take that list and we put it into our database um and we'll send out a notice to everybody on on our waiting on our um I'm sorry on our newsletter list so you can join the newsletter um I'll show you that in a second it's very important if you are interested in affordable housing um the it's really important that you get on our housing Quest newsletter because we send out blasts it's not like you have to keep coming and look we'll send out blasts when there's new properties as well as when there's going to be a what people refer to as a lottery or random selection so basically um we'll send out an email blast to everybody on that list whether or not you apply to the property as long as you're on that weight that mailing list and it give you it will give participants the opportunity to come um as a zoom uh technically go to meeting go to webinar I guess it is you you join that there's a half hour presentation about the property we typically invite a representative from the prop property itself I'm leasing agent or what have you to um help understand what's available at the property and answer some questions then I will review um also during that presentation we'll have some slides I'll review the process at the property as well as then generate the random um generate the random numbers so that's the most important thing so be um what will happen here is here we go thank you very much for leaving that up there we use this website randomizer.org that's just in ads if I get rid of that ad I will be fine so we use this website randomizer.org and it's a very simple process we basically Generate random numbers um you can generate uh random numbers if you know we expect we expect that there' be very like thousands of people who will submit a preliminary application for these units um how's and I'm not saying anything new housing has become very very expensive throughout the state and that has put an extremely severe pressure on the affordable housing that is being produced um in 30 years this is um unbelievably the the kind of the worst situation we've seen in terms of people needing housing but anyway we'll generate the numbers and then we'll just copy and paste those numbers into our database so then we put them into silos could be very low income one bedroom low income one bedroom uh moderate income one bedroom two bedroom the same three categories there'll be nine lists or silos and in the then you'll be assigned the number you'll be able to go right back to our website there'll be um whoops under here we'll add um access to the the results of that so about 15 minutes after we do the random selection you'll be be able to go there and look up what your priority number is but your priority number is not the whole story the priority number then has to um the other information that we need is what how big of an apartment you have applied for one two or three bedroom and your level of affordability so we take all the random numbers and we put them into these nine lists or silos or categories and then we begin at the top of that list and we start sending out final applications for the units so the process from there um will require applicants if you get a final application it doesn't mean that you're definitely in the running but you're really close you will be um asked to go visit the property to fill out whatever paperwork they do we don't get involved in you know credit criteria or anything that's really up to the property so applicants then are approved um by the property folks based on what their what we call their tenant selection criteria is and that would be could be the same criteria as what they would have for the market units at the property and then be approved also by us um for minimum and maximum income purposes and um after that you become a tenant a resident of the property and basically um you're you we don't really get too much involved after that except for annually um we um provide the landlord with the maximum rent increases so the increases each year are governed by the program they're based on the Consumer Price Index for housing in the Northeast and so every year um you have the you know the rents could go up but they're not going to go up tremendously like you might see Market units today um I know that you've had a long a lot of things so I didn't want to take up too much time but again I I just thank you very much for inviting me to this meeting because it was like so much um I don't know good goodness and everything that um I felt from just being here for the first part and if you tell me where I could put these I'll leave the um you leave them right on the table right here okay great sure uh councilwoman calino has a couple questions sure thank you and thank the public for waiting because you know this is all in important uh information so it's great we we do the positive but we also create when we have information for our our public to listen to um with that in mind so the questions that come to me right away so this is for Stone Hill the new one uh up behind uh essic screen shopping plaza and now are you representing them or is this for now for example we have the senior building coming online hopefully uh before the end of this year would you ALS also would if folks want to go or senior citizens want to go live in that building did they go to this website and then you have or you go to the building's website and you'll be on there how does that work um that that's being develop that property um as a what's called a low-income housing tax credit program and typically because they're so regulated by the state they would do their own Administration basically they certify their they're they're uh trained for that developers of that type of housing is um are trained to to do that they have very tight oversight by the New Jersey housing and mortgage Finance Agency that audits their property so as an administrative agent we really don't get involved with them too often um if um I can talk I know the folks who are doing it and um I think we we both participated in a presentation over at the library the other night perhaps um we could put a note on our website so that uh people could follow um or a link up to that whatever they because they're putting together a web page as well so this is just for this site this is just for Stonehill okay just want to make that clear for the public yes okay and then eligibility so each year you they'll have to rify their income each year because if actually in this program uh no um in the other program where the seniors are they will have an annual recertification because of the program that they're under this program is not federally funded and under this program um once you're in an apartment um that's your apartment there's no um recertification requirement um and the the rent remains in the same category throughout so although your income could go up or down um the rent if you're in that low-income one-bedroom rent that REM Remains the Same except for the annual increase oh interesting okay I always thought if someone was single then they got married and now their income doubled that would um typically what is allowed any kind of normal change that a that a tenant or resident might have would be acceptable so um cly not the next day but in a year or two somebody meets somebody they get married or whatever um that that would be perfectly acceptable oh can you win the lottery and stay in that everybody asks me that yes you can win the lottery all right and so it's a beautiful property and you might not see a lot of turnover you know the downside of that is that other people then won't have the opportunity sure um but it the way the program was designed okay thank you thank you thank colleagues any other questions for Mr pza and the website is PIAA NJ this is a housing quest.com panj brings you just so I can just show you um so pza NJ gets to here and because we have both Community Management and affordable housing you go to here this is our affordable housing landing page which is housing quest.com and again um one of the two uh Q codes on the sheet of paper will get you there and one will bring you directly to the property then it it'll explain a lot of these are all the newer properties that and you can you know I encourage you to to um to apply as you might but it's very important if you're interested in Stonehill here in West Orange you do that as soon as you can because again just to emphasize the deadline is the 22nd of May yes can you apply for more than one complex at a time each complex has its own application but you can apply for as many and most all of the new ones now are digital so it's a lot easier to do okay so if you wanted Stonehill in West Orange and then 459 Bloomfield Avenue I'm assuming that is in Monclair but I don't I'm I'm just making the Assumption right so if you wanted to apply for both of those because you kind of live in between you could yeah you just have to fill out an application for each mon great I would imagine they cannot be sub or oh right there are some restrictions they can't be subl in any way shape or form and it has to be the Principal residence of the um applicant who's the head of household or co-head of household that means that they have to live there for 260 days a year thank you Mr Pat Uh the Flyers will be on the front table should anyone uh want to grab one before we leave tonight um and can you just give the website once more for the those that are listening www.housing like Map Quest housingquest all onew word.com thank you thank you Mr Patza thanks for the opportunity absolutely great job sir gonna ask Mr uh def um if he's here he's here he's here oh there he is okay uh uh to uh give us presentation on our Solid Waste contract they are they put them at 7:30 so I yes yes Mr defale please good evening council president members of the council well we're here again talking about solid Way's collection exciting it's always exciting I started this morning in Gloucester County doing the same thing it's a full day you may recall several months ago we started a discussion on solid waste collection and the various options we were looking to engage in on a go forward basis the good news is we did receive some bids and the good news is we received three bids nice of the three bids that we received one was defective so we could no longer consider it two were not defective one was higher than the other we bid four options as we had discussed back I want to when PA yeah May before that we bid four options and the four options the first option was to basically bid what you have today so we had a point of comparison to see if we change the Scopes of service would that change the numbers as you may recall from my prior presentation I warned you that bid pricing Statewide was going up on the average of 34 to 150% crazy over the past five years which is a big number had a lot to do with that seems that Co has had a lot of bad things to do with a lot of things that hasn't changed the number's coming in anywhere you get 34% I tell you to be happy if you get 150 I get it you're unhappy we then bid three other options changing both the frequency and instituting something different which is carts cart collection is where each resident is given a container typically 96 gallons which is the equivalent of three garbage games wow that cart would be for garbage the resident would then be given a cart for their single stream recycling which you all do also 96 gallons you need the bigger one for recycling because of card today as we've talked about most people are getting shipments every day at their home from Amazon or whomever carts are what most in the industry are moving towards New Jersey's about 10 years behind the reason carts are very popular and why we put them in here as options is because haulers like carts due to the fact that the injury rate for the holler goes down think about picking up 600 times a day something that weighs 50 pounds while you might be in great shape at the winter time you tend to get hurt CS avoid that now carts the first question will be will carts work in a town where you have on street parking I read your mind again the city of Baltimore has converted to carts the city of San Francisco uses three carts per home the city of newart is converting to carts I would submit that any one of those communities is tougher than West Orange to service where people become confused on carts is they're used to seeing a truck if they live in a community with carts with automatic arm that picks up the cart and tips it in a community where you have on street parking that's not the case you will have person on the truck take the cart out there will be a device on the back of the truck that lifts it up it's called semi-automated that doesn't negate the cart therefore the second option was what you have today but with carts the third I'm I'm sorry yes uh yes with carts First Option none second option wi the third option and the fourth option we reduce we sought a price for reducing the frequency from two times a week for one time for week and if you think about it every time someone has to drive past your home to do anything there's a cost now in the typical math for a solid waste collection contract the cost for reducing from 2 to 1 is about 15 to 20% savings it's not 50% because the basic costs are still there but you do save some money typically but we wanted to see that we want to make sure you have the information to move forward and in the last case we have also gone to once a week but with cards so you have without and with the other big change in the last two options is we change a couple of things things one we didn't ask for curbside collection of electronics every time you do a curbside collection you add a significant cost also in the last two options we eliminated the commercial collection system commercial collection is not the typical Norman Mo in Municipal contracts and tends to be very expensive therefore we sought those four choices the good news is we received some very good numbers well good numbers would be free but they're not that good in the base bid if you want to keep what you have today the the apparent low bidder comes in at 33% increase over what you're paying today almost exactly what we would predict over five years however is that per year per year over five years five years we're comparing five to five gotcha this way we're comparing an apple to an Apple so to speak however if you take option four which is carts no commercial once a month full no electronics curb size and you own the recycling I forgot to mention there's an advantage that and I'll explain it in a minute your price only goes up 8% over what you're paying today oh wow give that parameter I'll give you the numbers the parameters again param so with carts with carts no commercial per week one time per week again you'll have a 96 gallon cart yeah it right once per week one 96 gallon cart no curv sign Electronics we have this environment Center for that no commercial pickup in the suity oh no okay no commercial up in the Sid the only no commercial pickup in the Sid only you're not do any commercial and you own the recycle what does that mean well what that means today is when you ask a contractor to bid this bid and tell them you own everything cans bottles paper good luck you find us a market what they're going to do is look at the market pricing over the last 10 years and charge you the highest possible number when the markets are at their worst value and you having the dirtiest stream they can come up with why to protect themselves against a bad Market you owning the market means you can have what's called an adjustable market and that means your pricing while it might change every month you get the advantage of a good Market you pay a little bit in the bad Market but you have the incentive to get people to recycle correctly better people recycle the better you're pricing yeah and here's a big plus that's just changed to your benefit uh three weeks ago a brand new $2 million processing facility opened in the city of P which is not far from here that can take your material and anyone else's it is a huge facility the biggest I have seen in New Jersey to date nice that's going to put competitive pressure on the market to your benefit and give you the best possible price we'll have to seek that price through a competitive not bid but a competitive procurement called an RFP which you've done before and it will allow us to have the hauler take it to where we tell them you have three murfs within about 10 to 12 miles of year a murf is a facility that processes the recycle which means we have a good chance of getting a better price the long and the short it is from a budgetary standpoint the carts while you would purchase them as a community Hearts have a 10-year life they're warranteed for 10 years that mention um The Bu the bulk is that gonna be once a week sry one time per month with reservation what do you mean like you have to people would have to make a reservation and let me tell you why we did that okay I've done multiple bulk pickups bulk pickup is one of the single most expensive services you offer think about it I just said getting people injured is is a problem well think about bulk pickup it's heavy it's bulky by definition and people get hurt currently a workman's compensation claim cost anywhere between $150 and $200,000 per claim bulk pickup has the highest rate of claims for that secondly we've done both Community surveys and an actual practice where reservation systems have been put in we find about 10 10% of your residents use bulk On Any Given collection dayb but if you use bulk like you normally do the driver has to drive around the whole town looking for it yeah in one Community 70 which is smaller of 7900 homes on their first month of bulk collection by reservation they had 54 pickups a day instead of driving the 7,900 homes that's reflected in those savings the city of patter took bulk in house recently and saw significant savings I checked with their gpw director how many are you getting by reservation Patterson's much tougher it's a rental Community they had bulk at every garbage pickup so we get about a 100 200 now think of the size of Patterson against the size of West AR it doesn't people will get their bulk picked up once a month that's not an issue if they have it they call they make a reservation the driver goes right to the address think of it like you getting a package UPS knows to go to your house you schedule it online we schedule it online we haven't developed the system the huler will have to develop that system but it will be online on phone whatever is convenient they'll have to do it both ways because some of your residents may not be able to go online and we have to take that into account and they can do it by telephone toll free number can can go back to the cans I know um um in some towns you can buy a second can you have that much garbage for a weekly pickup are you able to do that here the bid doesn't specify that that's an internal decision you have to make there would be no technical reason to prohibit that uh again what I have found an experience where we've converted this over most residents find they don't need it if we ever had complaints the typical complaint was I don't need 96 gallons I need something smaller that can be worked out internally since you're buying the carts in some communities what they have done is said you can have a second cart and the town has established a fee structure for that that you will pay the town for that c other towns have said no it's really a local community decision to make it's not something the bid cares about one way or the other in communities where second carts have been available we haven't seen a large number of orders after about they said try it for six months let's see see where you are and most of the time people don't need it another benefit by the way in this bid I apologize in there to say we have a rear yard collection option what we did is we bid the price no obligation for a resident to use it but if they want it they have a price sheet in front of them which is fixed they deal directly with the huler for that has nothing to do with you they contract directly with the hauler if they want it they don't want it they they no no harm no foul as we say but it gives your residents an additional potential service should they wish to have and that's negotiated directly through the homeowner and the huler correct we're out of it completely all we ask for from the huler is they must report to us I.E the town on a quarterly basis to how many people have signed up so each year they know you know exactly what kind of service use there is just say do we have an estimate for the cost of the carts uh yes uh the estimate would be predicated that it's called open source it's a co-op purchasing system there are three cart companies that I know of on it about I can't give you a firm price but it's about $65 a cart which is really cheap so and and then we would need two we've got about 19,000 households I don't know how many well we're not doing any commercial so and that would be that would be done as a one-time purchase yeah in fact if Council decides I want to moving this direction I want to have this found ordinance for the C time at the next meeting do we is that number is it 19 or 17 I've heard both 17 and 19 um all right um the do do you have any experience or any data regarding uh I I know you said the lifespan is about 10 years you have any data uh with regard to how many are damaged um during normal collection generally they're not they're pretty darn durable thing I have had one Community where the cart manufacturer had admitted a defect in manufacturing and they replaced every single cart under warranty with no problem whatsoever they replace about 3,000 carts at their expense the beauty of the cart system is when you buy the carts the manufacturer does the delivery to each home in the community for you your town doesn't do it we each cart will have what's called an RF id tag built in and it's literally assigned to the address not just the street address but literally assign geospatially meaning using a coordinate map and it helps because the hauler will then read that as they collect their truck has to have equipment to read the RFID tag and what that does for you is two things one if people don't Place something out on time and I know you never get complaints about late pickups I understand that never happens you eliminate that yeah sorry the truck read that your cart wasn't there at 702 or whatever the time may be the other thing that it does and it has helped in other communities it helps with your recycling education now you can see where people are or are not putting out Recycling and it doesn't not for negative purposes but why isn't that happening here it gives you an education tool and thirdly and at least one Community it identified illegal Apartments because complaints came in that I only received one cart why didn't I get two for a two family oh that's B because you only have one house oh yeah maybe you should talk to us about the second apartment which is a valuable tool to your T yes very there are many many benefits I I am obviously Pro kart in any Community I work with I urge the communities to seriously consider it most communities I have worked with that have converted in fact all communities I've worked with that have converted the first six months it's the adjustment Factor now if I went to take their carts they'd yell at me one last question you go first um so with the carts are there different styles of carts just concerned about the lids being secure not coming on and off that type of thing the carts that Liz are permanently secured okay all carts are like that that are built that way that you don't need what they just distributed in Sussex County there are be prooof carts but we don't need those but that's the only design those would be the design differences in carts do we have to be more secure or less but no the lids Do not I have two carts three carts at my home and I've had the recycling my garbage cards got to be 15 years old thank you so thank you KC president um so what I love about the carts I have it at my other property that I own uh down the shore and um they are heavy they're pretty much the ones I've seen have been really heavy but what I think will be really beneficial here in the township we have had so many reports of garbage flying all over our neighborhood so if some because a lot of peoples don't bag their garbage they just throw it in the can the cans knock over I know down uh Liberty Street Colombia they it's been a nightmare and no matter how many times uh Property Maintenance goes out there it it's good for a while and then our health department director sitting here too so he could attest to it so the cart's really going to help out with that because they're solid they even in hurricane weather it takes a lot to blow them over um that not to say that they can't but there if you get the heavier ones for the wind which I would highly recommend we do get the better product for the residents um because you don't want them flying around when it's really windy out my and I won't I have some questions but I won't dig down today because our executive director uh for d for the Sid is is out of town um this week but I need to wrap my head around um with the commercial with the with the district just to see how that that would work to get details on that and numbers from uh Administration uh unless you have them there like how many properties we talking about is that makes use like because a lot of them there's uh residential upstairs and Retail downstairs um but he said no commercial resal you would still get you would still get the resident above it we still get so so if you have well some of the business owners this what I have to wrap my head around it so if they have a storefront um they would not get the service but the residents upstairs would and right now the the residents um downstairs are getting commcial they're getting the benefit of the small businesses all right I just need to wrap my head around it and we'll figure it out and let me just say you the differential in price between the what you have today and this new option is almost $3 million over years that that's that's the number that's a pretty big that's a very big number what is the approximate investment in the carts first first $65 uh about 2.3 milon two million so couple questions on that so one is that a capital cost yes okay um so and then uh second you said when we own the recycling can you just explain to me like a fifth grader what that actually mean neoti I was thinking the same thing first of all this recycling markets are Global so that's not as a fifth grader but I would say essentially your town today what it's done historically as some towns have and some towns have not every town does it differently I want you to know that you said and what your huler does today is your huler literally takes ownership the minute they pick up the recycling at the curve themselves therefore it's their responsibility to find a market to take the recycle they have one they have done what you've ask them to do and they have secured that market under the new model their option four we will seek our own Market through competitive process and much like today but what will happen is you now take ownership the minute it's put at the curve while the hauler will pick it up for you you own it as a town you take it through your Haller to whatever Market we select through our competitive process okay so they're not managing the paperwork we are they're not managing the paperwork we are correct do we have an itemized uh price for that you will so that we can know what that is and also find out what a bided price would be and see which is the better the price will change every month I know we get an approximate so we know what's the better deal or what the differential in price is under the way you have it today to deal with and US negotiating well under the way we're dealing with it today on the extension it's the model I am giving you we our price for the market changes every month that we pay the hauler mine will be the same Market I can give you we have an average or yeah itemized price I can give you an average pricing structure right but as I said it will be based on how much of everything there is biggest advantage to you owning this and it's even today under your extension is you now have a financial incentive to really move onto greater education of the public as to why you should recycle correctly because literally even today if a resident is not recycling correctly they are throwing their money in the garbage so how how do we main so I'm just trying to understand the system how do we maintain Integrity with regard to the recy product excellent question we actually use a third party market index the beauty of recyclables is they are Commodities and very much like oil Futures and gas Futures and everything else there is a published index and the the facility will have to provide to us every month a copy of the index price that they are using that's a third- party published index from which they are basing their pricing structure and it has to be tied to that third party index rather than taking their word for it we don't have to do that and we will be able to monitor it say well wait a minute the index says X you're saying why shouldn't use why because I'm G say why is that but we actually are doing that for you today you were actually getting some pricing and the third party index is being checked with each invoice and to date the contractor has honored that exactly across the board for so now when the hauler picks up the recycling using two trucks or one truck your case they use one for recycling and one for garbage because you do what we call single scream which is cans bottles paper together so it will be a separate truck for the recycling absolutely and that and that will be weighed or how will that be weigh every recycling facility has a gross tear just like a garbage facility and that number comes from the recycling facility not the hall absolutely okay so obviously it's clear which you're recommending again that's 8% over five years that's 8% increase over five years for that fourth option yes the 8% I think that if I heard you correctly yeah that excludes the cost of the uh carts correct if I go for the if I look at the cart pricing just based and this is based on average pricing obviously we haven't secured the carts the 2.8 million number savings drops over five years to 1.78 million but still a sub that's after the C you're still saving almost $2 million over five years it's a pretty over option one is that what you say option one that is correct right thank you that was great okay and that but I mean we're still spending more which is we would be saving over what the price went yes look the current price is about 14 you would have gone up to almost 19 under the the low bid for what you do today and the point is most community are realizing they can't do what they have done for the past 30 years just because pricing has gone up and I can tell you even with the one time per month on reservation for bul the two national companies in this area would not B they have a corporate policy saying we don't bid bulk anymore we aren't getting our people hurt got it so so council president W so what's the next St Bond ordinance by the courts we have to have a resolution to award a contract to The Collector the huler well we can do the bond ordinance and get those Wheels in Motion and you still don't have to trigger the bond If U I went over to Sol John today you still don't have to trigger the bond if you decide not to go in that direction so you know as you know I've been um dealing with some things um have made it difficult for me to keep up have we gotten this in writing do we have numbers have we seen the the comparison yes no I haven't I haven't so has the council I'd like to see the numbers on everything email to you whatever everything yeah take take a look at it you have it do you want to do it yeah you can you can just mail to the council that's fine yeah I'll just email it directly to you and then you can distribute it absolutely I don't think everybody's email that's that's all right you just or you send it to me and I'll get it okay I'll send you the analysis letter and that'll show you all the numbers in the spreadsheet thank you OED uh any other questions colleagues no just thank you um just one last statement I see the mayor still here and great presentation Mr defo and thank you I know you've been working on this a long time uh whatever plan we choose obviously there's going to be a a major change so I know the tax bill uh the third quarter tax bill is always a great opportunity the mayor with the letter and and explaining all these changes and if we move forward tonight with the a big change with the tree ordinance I highly recommend for the administration to to put that in there so all the because that's when you're going to get the property owners who this is going uh to to uh effect so um just wanted to throw that out there now I look I I said all along and I've said it to you in Prior meetings for recycling and for any change the trick is education education education and you can't do it one time it's a Perpetual process and if we don't do that we have more trouble there's no doubt about that the more we educate the simpler the transition will be when it comes absolutely right and basically um so the single stream will stay in effect is that what we're agreeing tonight so that will stay correct so it's just a matter of uh switching over to carts once a month bulk and and your garbage pickups once a week and the other thing I did want to emphasize on carts because you started emphasizing it a moment ago carts also help reduce ver yes because you don't have a bag that they can chew through nothing is nothing is verman proof yeah don't get me wrong but it really reduces it and from a uniform EX look in your town have those carts out in the same everything looks the same right very uniform very straightforward hot stamp instructions on the cart your logo your seal that's all done as part of the process and it just looks so much neater in the process you have bags rolling over it's got to fit in the cart that's a lot believe me 96 gallon cart is a lot of material yes that big but great it's they're big but they're great before you go uh Mr defil director fanino any uh comments you'd like to add any thoughts could you get yeah microphone thank you I'm sorry I was just going to add but Mr defo said it it's definitely going to help with um rodent and animal issues because we have a lot of um like you said a lot of residents that just put loose garbage in a can so when when the men dump the can and it's a windy day things blow out not that that might not still happen and it will be reduced greatly for sure um but the the cans will better contain the recycling um if people right now people are putting recycling out in open containers because we can't put it out in bags so um having a cart with a lid will prevent the recycling from blowing all over the place when we have high winds so I I think it's very advantageous to have the cards for many reasons and I hope that you guys will consider it thank you thank you director I apologize one last question I know you try to work things out because when I was on the school board we try to line our contracts up with them which we we did but last time we went out to bid five years ago um they they were in different directions what did do you happen to be able to uh work with them at all in this instance or still they're they're doing a different process yeah we we didn't do anything with the schools it's it's the processes have has become so much more complicated in terms of going through the Office of the State com controller and the review process really needs to be separate and and that says it saely the osc is just really slows things down and makes it harder for us to do that and what about the associations I apologize I don't want last questions because I know with the last time we looked at the big because I was on the committee the the um because we have so many communities uh gated communities or associations with their hauling is that good it's they're going to have to buy the same nothing changes nothing changes for them whatever you pick up today you'll pick up tomorrow if you pick up in a dumpster at a community you'll pick up tomorrow the same dumpster if they don't get picked up but get reimbursed that does not change okay all right great thank you that's the other thing with the schools don't forget they're dumpsters so they're a completely different truck than the the truck with yeah I just curious see if there was any move movement there all right no other questions no um thank you Mr defale thank you director fonzo thank you uh yeah we have one more uh the proclamation for Lupus Awareness Month um I'm assuming Madame mayor yeah we don't is Miss Miller here is Miss Miller here yes excellent yes I got it there it's worse Karen go ahead there we go good evening thank you presentation there was such a productive meeting so much information this evening um so you know I I feel um over the weekend I had an um an Alzheimer New Jersey event up at the Clipper Pavilion at South Mountain reservation in that rain and cold but yet was so well received because people were out there they know it's so unfortunate to be afflicted with this caregivers families and friends and the individuals but yet you know you need the research and the development to continue to seek for a cure tonight we also have Lupus Awareness Month and just reading I have been joined here by Judith Miller and to um I'm just I just want to read part of the Proclamation because it says unfortunately medical well I'm saying unfortunately medical research efforts into lupus and the discovery of safer more effective treatments for Lupus patients are underfunded in comparison with diseases of comparable magnitude and severity lupus is an unpredictable and misunderstood Auto autoimmune disease that can cause severe damage to the tissue and the organs in the body and in some cases death many Physicians worldwide are unaware of symptoms and health effects of Lupus causing people with lupus to suffer suffer for many years before they obtain the correct diagnosis and medical treatment there is a deep unmet need worldwide to educate and support individuals and families affected by lupus there is an urgent need to increase awareness in our community and across the United States and the globe of the re debilitating impact of Lupus so tonight with this Proclamation um as mayor and Town Council we proclaim the month of May hereby designated as Lupus Awareness Month in the township of West Orange where the lupus Community comes together to call for increases in public and private sector funding for medical research on Lupus targeted education programs for health professionals patients and the public and recognition of Lupus as a significant significant public health issue so on that I would like to present this proclamation to thank you mayor I also want to thank the Council of West Orange for taking up the mantle to join the the campaign of making lopus visible lupus affects 1.5 million Americans five million worldwide as she mentioned it is underfunded and we're looking for a cure and it takes awareness and it takes Township's efforts to to make lupus visible I stand here as a lupus patient I was diagnosed at the age of 16 and it's been a campaign to to light of New Jersey purple I have um my lupus voices council member over there Elizabeth come join me lupus is known as a woman's disease but we also know affects men and also children just as I mentioned I was diagnosed at at the age of 16 but Elizabeth is a mother of a child who was diagnosed at the age of so as we know it's no longer a woman's disease it affects children so a need for a cure is urgent better medication just in the past five years we've finally had a medication just for Lupus before we did not so it takes funding it takes awareness and I just want to thank West Orange Council for taking up the mantle to join the campaign thank you absolutely um hi so may may is Lupus Awareness Month in the United States what is lupus lupus is an adun chronicus that can affect any part of the body including the skin joint and internal organs um lupus can affect anyone including children what is my connection to lupus my connection to lupus is Lum my daughter Mia she was diagnosed with lupus when she was 9 years old it took two years to get her proper diagnosis because doctor didn't contemplate l l as an option because she was a child there was a survey done in the United States and it takes about seven years for luas patient to get a proper diagnosis also I would like to share with you that in 1948 the FDA approved aspiring aspiring for lus patient and the first drug appr proof that the FDA created for Lupus patient was in 2011 when my daughter was invited to Washington to be with a representative she told a representative I don't want to be 60 years old when the next li drug is created and approved by the FDA in 2024 currently there are three drugs approved for Lupus for adults and in in 2024 there's only one drug ever created for lupas for children 2024 one medicine approved by the end FDA lus and children awareness is vital in our community visibility for this illness is very important May is Lupus Awareness Month in the United States the color that represents lupus is purple our symbol is a butterfly thank you so much for bringing visibility to this illness we truly appreciate it because it is like action like yours guys that help us bring our word so thank you so much thank sure you guys get right given the time colleagues I'm going to ask that we do our liaison announcements during our response to public comment um now time to go into our regular meeting Madam clerk this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 20 23 councilwoman castelino present councilwoman gber Michael present councilwoman Scarpa present councilwoman Williams pres council president Rutherford here mayor McCartney Oh will everyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance iice the council is now in their public meeting that's they do public comment um you can have public comment on any issue not just the agenda items but it is restricted to those that are in person only uh each uh person is invited to uh that wants to share in public comment is invited to the microphone please give us your name and your address uh before you uh um start your your comments uh all the comment is now open before we come uh we have and I think Mr Pia at least I saw him earlier no oh I may have confused him with Bob uh Mr Fagen uh please begin thank you council president uh before I begin I think I see Spiderman in our audience tonight so I just wanted to point out Spider-Man is here so we all have to be on our best behavior um hey Spidey uh we have a lot going on this month certainly uh this is Westar salutes Asian Pacific American heritage month uh all the members of our community and everywhere uh we salute them this month um as you may be aware the um the opening of the dog park this past Sunday was delayed due to rain so it's fre scheduled to the Rain date of Sunday uh May 19th the same time 4: to 6: p.m. and uh you can register on our website uh if you're if you're bringing your dog um we have our Memorial Day ceremony coming up uh and as I've mentioned at previous meetings it's the West Orange honor roll 80th anniversary rededication to our World War II veterans uh speaking of veterans I want I threw this in here tonight uh for the Veterans Crisis Line uh I have a lot of um individuals come into my office uh looking for the late Ralph panelo uh because they have questions about veterans so I thought it'd be appropriate to put up here there is a Veterans Crisis Line uh you can dial 988 and then press one confidential support is available 365 days 247 and you don't have to be registered in any veterans programs to do this if you are a veteran and uh you have an you are in crisis you can uh simply uh dial 988 I believe this information will be up on our site uh Mr ke our Recreation uh director asked me to uh remind everyone that on West orange.org there are Rec Department newsletters uh featuring upcoming events Special Events sports teams and tri outs and registration deadlines and it's up there every month and there's it's a lot of information uh speaking of our rec department that poll looks so good uh now to May 10th there are early bird specials for registration you can contact our uh Recreation Department uh Madam clerk has asked me to remind the public that there is no slicing in West Orange and permits are required and that's true uh for Raffles um in in any type of game of chance so please uh come down or call the clerk's office uh if you have any questions um uh we talked Carl Brer talked about this earlier the uh love and unity Fest kicks off in front of town hall Monday May 13th chalk the walk um come on down and uh feel the love and unity um there is going to be hydrant flushing going on in West Star beginning May 12th to May 24th uh there is information about this on the website specific what uh to what you can um uh expect and uh the times and I've triple checked this because it's actually going to be in the overnight 900 P p.m. to 5:30 a.m. uh just when some people are probably going to need the water the most uh but also on our website you can sign up for code red to receive water related Works uh alerts from uh new uh New Jersey American water and that's it our website West orange.org uh this is a way out uh Sunday June 1st it will be here before you know it it's a blood drive uh you need to use the code W FD West Orange fire department to register at redcrossblood.org um earlier this uh week we had visitors to uh town hall on May 2nd the uh American African Asian Chamber of Commerce uh Josie valz uh helped arrange it we had Goodwill tour from uh China uh individuals from China come through to visit West Orange and um they posed on the steps at Town Hall mayor McCartney welcomed and spoke to them through a translator and was given a gift from China uh a plate there special significance to it uh we don't know exactly what it is because it's in Chinese um but we we uh we are aware of that uh if anyone needs to contact uh any of the council members you can do so at Council atwest orange.org um Mr Pugi is not here tonight but I do have um uh his contact information here uh you can give him a call and uh also I know that if he was here he probably would have mentioned the computer electronics s this County recycling day that's important for our residents that's Saturday May 18th and this information is available on our website that concludes my report council president thank you so much for Mr thank you Mr Fagan Council mcber Michael has a question for you Mr Fagan questions dog park opening I'm on the website now I don't see it listed here for the 19th is someone gonna uh I believe um it is there no I'm on it now there's nothing okay I'll um what time is it uh it's it's the same time 4: to 6: p.m. as the original opening um I will uh check with director fanino in the morning and make sure that that's listed on our website thank you Mr Fagan um we will now open public comment uh to those that are in person uh please uh make your way to the microphone you don't need to be called on you can just come up in any particular order we ask that we respect each other uh as we approach the microphone and please give us your name and address uh before you begin your comment Joy brette 63 plot place um I'm here about the same issue that I was here about February of 23 and was in contact with um I've been in contact with Tammy and Su Scarpa and chief Abbot Chief Abbott uh I think told Su Scarpa to tell me to hold off he was gonna have an officer call me and we'll try to work through the parking thing someone called me wasted 45 minutes of my time in October and I never heard from them again on all of the issues and the concerns I had so I will restate them I live on the corner of rollinson and plot the council has allowed permit parking all over my neighborhood and it is all about the seat and Hall students well when you give permit parking to everybody else we get flooded and we have nowhere to park I have in my purse six tickets because my children come home my daughter comes home from for lunch my son is working at night and comes home during the day there is nowhere to park so they Park on Glenn which is ajacent to my house it's on the side of my house we cannot park there because there is permit parking we don't have permits to park there there are no permits on plot but I have six tickets because where should we be parking when we live in this house my taxes have gone up and now you give me a new tax I now have a parking tax I am not sure what I should be doing but I am sure that the town should be doing something I went to my neighbors yesterday took an hour after I have stood on my feet and taught all day and walked plot in an hour and I have now 20 signatures from other neighbors who are tired of this I have been talking about this since paresi was in office I have I can send you emails of you know permits of a of a petition that I got signed and then paresi um Mr leor can attest to this denied me the permit parking and he told me I said well then you need to just take the permit parking from everybody if you're not going to give it to Residents that ask for it and his response to me was well if I take their permanent parking then all of those residents will show up and complain but he did not think that people from plot would come out to complain so basically we there's an an inequity here and this is now become um a situation where it's a quality of life issue I don't have time to worry about parking when I am trying to raise my child I have a senior graduating from college from high school but I here tonight instead of helping her do things to prepare for high school for her for her prom for all of these things that she has to do because my other kids cannot park six tickets officer DWI he can ticket them by the way I also make calls on a regular basis for the students that are parked illegally in front of my house that I can't park at because remember we have the no parking 50 ft from the corner 50t from the stop sign but on a regular basis the seat and Hall kids park there and they don't get ticketed because when I come home at lunchtime they have not been ticketed so I have to make phone calls like how many jobs am I doing here I got to do my job that I get paid to do in the schools and then I got to call the police to do their job I am exhausted I do I cannot continue to live like this and so do if you want my uh my petition I can get the rest of my neighbors to sign to because I live in a workingclass neighborhood I went yesterday knocking on people's doors at 7 o'clock at night people were in robes already they wanted to come out but we are exhausted you got we spend 10 15 minutes during the day if you come home trying to find somewhere to park and I generally don't even come home for lunch anymore because I can't park at my house and if we park there like my daughter does because she comes home she's working in the schools as well she has tickets my son has tickets no one's saying you know what Miss brette we're so sorry let us void those tickets for you I'm expected to pay for tickets where I also pay my taxes this is not okay and if I decided to sell my house who am I selling it to when they can't park you cannot park I do not have a driveway but when I bought my house 23 years ago I didn't need one because I could park on the street I can't park in front of my house I can't park during the day somebody help me and tell me where should I park and I suggest that that we actually permit Park the entire neighborhood so that the seat and Hall children can park on Prospect where they have parking I have been to my uh Jersey City and New Jersey City um their University they have permit parked the entire neighborhood so that the residents can park by their houses and that the students use the Lots provided to them by their school it is not okay that the students can flip me off and tell me oh I park here every day and I don't get a ticket this is how they talk to me because they have been given this entitlement that they can do whatever they want in our neighborhoods and they don't have to respect us your time is up m m good evening Talia Young 57 Ridgewood Avenue good evening br 34 clown of road I appreciate my neighbors for letting Spider-Man go home um but it's working very well because he cannot talk with the mascot so we are here representing our company chemistry who is specifically asking for a 30 to 60 day extension for our application uh we've been here multiple times here in front of this August body um because of changes to variance changes to ability to use the build buildings that we had in contract changes to zoning after zoning was approved and we have the ability to uh secure a location at specifically um which is in process and to do and to close that after the third building that we as a minority business uh a women-owned business a single mom business um has invested hundreds of thousand dollars in um hopefully can secure this location to open up our dispensary is there anything you want to ask yeah just uh adding to that again this has been a long process a lot of money spent a lot of time spent we are residents here I've lived here my whole life K through 12 we understand that there's an issue in terms of uh not having buildings close to schools parks and places of worship W is a great place because there's a lot of schools places of recreation and places of worship that's why my my family moved here that's why I want to raise my family here but that being said makes it very hard to find a building that's not in those parameters and even the building that we're looking at now we're going to need a variance but we're going to need some type of help from the council I've been meeting tomorrow again with the zoning offeres try to find other building trying to be very good uh Partners here we're trying to work with the town there's just not a lot of buildings that are outside of those parameters and we need help we really do um that's this is what we want and I think I also want to emphasize I know this is new to everybody I know there's still a lot of questions and concerns and fears and I get all that we need to really emphasize this is not a liquor store this is not a smoke shop this is not even a drugstore it's not even a CBS I promise you we're not going to put anything right next to a school but even if we did if we won't kids are not going to be able to get inside there's security processes you have to have your license scann you have to sign documentation this is not a a regular business that we're used to where anybody just walk in and then we figure out the consequences after this this is a very very very structured business to make sure that only the people are there are people that are legally allowed to be there so I understand the concerns I understand the fears of putting something close to some of these places that we talked about um but like I said there's there really no other build outside of those parameters and we're not going to put anything you know right next to a school or anything but we are going to do some type of help or concession to find a building that works for both the town and for us because that's really all we got at this so appreciate that and I think the last thing is I would ask um some more natural investigation um for Best Practices that are happening right now in other cities and other municipalities on how the businesses are operating how they work in partnership with the school district in partnership with the community and just the background of both of ours um I apologize I'm coming from the fourth event um this evening with picking up child care um because I do community outreach I do community program that has been the course of my whole life in pro professional career I will not invest in anything that takes down or devalues my community that is just not the core my value or how I was raised so we ask for this opportunity we ask for this extension and we'll ask for any other questions that you have regarding this industry we're here also to be that open book there's really nothing else for us to say thank you thank you very much thank you good evening Nicole Bell 31 Underwood Drive uh I'm here for a number of reasons hopefully I can get through them all first I'm here to ask the council to approve the bylaws of the older adult Advisory Board which you have on your agenda for later this evening as Vice chair and former head of the bylaws committee I am concerned by the oab's council liais On's refusal to honor the board's request to submit the bylaws for Council approval as required by the audience or ordinance I'm here because I'm also concerned that despite the board having spent its entire first meeting of 2024 reviewing the bylaws line by line agree upon changes and then voting to approve the bylaws as amended our Council Leon's explanation for why she hadn't submitted them was that the whole board had not yet had an opportunity to weigh in on the bylaws I am not sure what the issues are with the bylaws if you will review them you will see that the majority of the language came from the Township's ordinance and the rest is pretty benign we would just like to be able to close this item from our agenda so I came to make sure that the council is clear that the entire board has had a chance to review and weigh in on these by and voted unanimously for them in our January meeting and has asked that the council please just approve them secondly I'm here as a resident who's in her second year of service on two different Commissions in town to ask the council to please think about the purpose of these boards and commissions uh especially when you're um you're appointing people if you truly intend for them to serve a purpose for the community then I ask that you really think about your appointments and consider appointing people to these boards and commissions based on their commitment to work on the boards and their ability to actually do the work as opposed to just appointing people so that everybody gets a chance I know that's been sort of a a discussion I also ask that you reconsider the term limit on the boards that require reappointment annually I completely agree that there should be limits to the amount of time someone serves on the board having onee appointments is disruptive to the board and makes it difficult to move forward most boards only meet once a month so it takes new members half the year to start to get a feel for the board and if they're appointed for only a year by the time they understand what's going on and feel like they can truly begin to contribute they are replaced two years should be the minimum amount of time for an appointment to sit on any board and actually just as you all serve for four years that would be ideal but I think your appointment should as well but perhaps an opportunity for you to replace an appointment after two years if you determine that that per person has not been effective my third reason for being here is As leaz on to the uh Rena board um the rent house building is a prime example of one for which having an experienced board and committed board is important because it takes time to understand the issues involved with overseeing a senior building especially one that receives Federal funding but it is the same um it is at the same time a great example of a board where term limits would really be helpful as my time is limited I won't go into details about that I will just say that there are a number of issues that the residents have continued to raise for the last year and change that I've been on the board that have not been adequately addressed and according to them they have been raising these issues even longer than that one of them is parking um some of the issues are annoying but not so serious and some are serious and isolated but the issues that are serious and building wide are my main concern and my effort to try to figure out how best to help the residents get issues resolved I realized that I didn't have a strong understanding of the purpose of the board and how it operates in other words words what am I really able to do so I reached out to the chair of the board to try to get that understanding he confirmed that the board was established via a charter and has bylaws and I have requested copies of those so that I can try to understand what it is I can do to help the residents I've yet to receive them he requested them from the management company I've yet to receive them now I'm sure that I can go back to the management company and ask them for them but I'm confused as to why I'm going to the people that we hire to get the the charters for our our board um so I'm here to ask the for the council's help in obtaining those bylaws I know that our chair asba is very busy I'm sure that the Rena board issues is not his major PRI is not his major priority he's got many more so I'm asking for some assistance from you one of the major issues at Rena is parking I didn't have time to go into the details about that but as the municipality takes back some of its space that the ren uh residents have been using they will have less space for parking the the lot that is geared just towards them doesn't have enough space for all of the residents there just as this new senior building won't have enough space for all of its residents there the municipality doesn't have enough space for the people who work here Rena has no space for visitors this building will have no space for visitors our building across the street doesn't have a lot of space for parking we have a parking issue so I would hope that the the council would start to think forward about that I also have clients and ML and Tellis terce who have the same story as this young lady we have a parking issue time is up something about that thank you thank you Miss just like to offer public comment Doug Adams n West over um just a couple of quick things um one uh I love the idea of the uh carts uh for the garbage stuff because uh existing with my grandchildren and the way that they do trash every day I'm picking up trash around around the yard it would just be great to put it in a cart and not have to do that with the bugs uh and the animals that we have all over West Orange we love them but you know we can't shoot them so the cards would be good um I do struggle a little bit with the um cut down in the days so we're getting going to have less Bal days and we're going to have less pickup days um and so for households with many people with the packaging and with all that stuff you know you generate a lot of trash and so I have two kind of regular legal siiz garbage cans then I have extra garbage cans because during those times especially in summer time when you're having activities and events and stuff you have more garbage so I would hate for us to to commit to sacrificing both of those things and then now have to deal with the ramifications of it because we're in a fiveyear agreement um the I really appreciate the presentation about the affordable housing I will say uh because I have gone on and done them uh for my daughter gone through uh she has a team uh and the ladies to have them go through process is not easy as they say um because when you identify the place you have to then figure out okay where do I go to get the affordable housing because that's not always on the housing the developments website so then if you don't know to go look somewhere else you won't be able to find that and different places use different people so the West has affordable housing too but they don't use the same folks so you can't go to the same site to try and find the same units so what I would recommend since it's something that's going to continue to happen in town that we get that information and post it on the town website so when people want affordable housing all of the developments that have affordable housing there's a link that you can go to those websites the second thing that I would recommend because we are dealing with Lottery issues and like he said you get a nice place folk can't get into it because I'm not moving if I got a place I'm not moving now I'm just telling you so what do you do we have a community of people in West Orange who are have intellectual and developmental disabilities and their housing comes from the supported housing um Dynamic which is different than the affordable housing Dynamic but the benefit to the town is supported housing units qualify for our affordable housing context because there are less people who need or qualify for support housing it means that our individuals with developmental disabilities intellectual disabilities will have a better chance of getting a unit in the community that they grew up in where they have the support structure if we require the developers to designate some of the affordable housing units for our supported housing community it supports them but it also helps us to meet our requirement so I would encourage that we would do a couple things to make that process work a little bit smoother uh for our most vulnerable residents I'd also like to say uh to our council president um um condolences on your family loss um obviously you know what I did in my private way uh to try and get you some support and your family support for that and we will continue to do that I guess the only other thing is I really would like for us to think as you go through the conversation about this tree ordinance we recently had the Forester come up to our property up on Northfield AV to identify just the trees that are not viable and so and up there on the brook because of the way things are we have really large trees leaning in really scary directions and so when he marked them we have somewhere around 15 trees that he is saying we need to remove they still don't have leaves on them some of them are on the edge of the brook so they're leaning because the erosion on the brook side is releasing the roots and there's parking lot on the other side so they're leaning toward the parking lot where our building and our members park where their cars are our children are there so it a very dangerous Dynamic so please consider that because it would be 15 we'd have to plant 30 trees to replace those 15 thank you uh thank you um Mr Adams will I please join us Lawrence Cohen Lincoln Avenue in Pleasantdale I'm also talking about trees um the Forester came to our block or his designate and um out of 18 very big trees 19 very big trees 18 are designated to be uh chopped down and they all are blooming they all have their leaves coming out um it's a mixture of maple trees and oak trees and some ash trees there's one giant tree it's just beautiful it's probably about a hundred years old very healthy it has two squirrels nests it has a bat roast uh the bats eat the bugs and so it's very helpful and it's just gorgeous I mean um the reason it seems they want to chop down the trees are is because the the road is designated to be repaved and the curbs are designated to be recurved um in a very uniform way the fars said he's going to do Belgian brick all the way down on both sides and if there's a tree that now some trees are overlapping on the curb he's says that's a goner that he wouldn't I've noticed all around New Jersey and New York when there's a big historic tree a specimen tree uh and the road is going to be repaved they leave the curve as it is they don't touch the curve uh they let the tree overlap that curb and they they they build the curb near the tree but it's not going to be perfect it's not going to be cookie cutter perfect and also they do a a cut around on the sidewalk to a accomodate the tree when for its girth as long as the tree is healthy there's really no reason to chop it down and the canopy is very important um uh there's there's not that many trees you know in West Orange there there's a problem with with canopy in West Orange so this is a very special Road Lincoln Avenue it hasn't been repaved in a long time so I guess that's why there's so many trees just hasn't been done and um there's another problem people's basements are flooding the trees soak up a lot of the moisture and um I don't think people realize if these trees are cut their flooding is going to get worse um and that's a big problem I think that's one of the major problems people have now people also complain about the sidewalks because the trees are big and some of the sidewalks are pushing up so there is a work around for that too the whoever pavs the sidewalk at the Town pays for that that's part of the the work um you can curve the sidewalk over the roots and I think the Firestar actually said that when he repaves the road that he has to cut down into the roots of the tree and that's why those trees are goners but that's not really true when you uh pave a road you don't have to go down to the roots you just go down to a certain level of uh of um old pavement and then just resurface especially if it's near a tree it can be done um so basically that's it and it's it would just be shocking this is this is 18 out of 19 trees Big Trees it will just be gone and there's another issue it's actually uh it's a it's a very steep grade this goes into the golf course area and I thank you guys for uh buying up the property up near the golf course because you've made that forever a wild and it's very helpful it's um you know that does help uh alleviate some of the flooding too if that was developed it would be uh even worse flood and um so the top part of Lincoln is a new development and they no trees it looks Barren it looks like a a sterile new development that's the way it would look down on our area and on two-thirds of the street that is scheduled to have the trees killed and uh so I hope you guys you know push back a little when the Forester says these trees are dead they're dying there's something wrong with them in the middle of the tree or or they just can't work on the sidewalks they can't work on the on the the curb and they can't work on the road I don't think that's true I think there's there's ways to accommodate these trees and uh councilwoman scarp was so helpful to me she spoke on her own time with me and it just was so lovely you know she's told me to come down here and and I did that be you know I just felt and all the people are nice in West Orange our neighbors are so nice they're so quiet um you know people especially young people on the Block they they want the trees there's one tree where the family feeds birds in a little Nook and the mother said said if that tree chopped down my kids are going to be heartbroken I spoke to another young uh young person who's not actually that young maybe in his 30s but he grew up here so he's been here 30 years and he says he loves the trees because they dampen the sound from 280 we're near 280 and uh he said they also it also gets very hot in the summer he said I like that canopy it's important so basically that's time is up I'm sorry your time is up oh oh thank you thank thank you [Music] sir good evening Council evening Joyce Ruden Woodland Avenue and um council president I am sorry about the loss of your mother-in-law um I don't think that we have had a more eloquent speaker about trees ever than Mr con and I just want to I just want to I just met Mr con and this is his street these are all of the trees that will be destroyed here's another here's another and here's another and I'm happy if I could pass this line to hand it to you sure okay so that you can see what will what is at stake here he talked eloquently about heat reduction about shade about um flooding in basements about nature and preservation these are our residents speaking out and I really think that it is upon it is necessary for this Council to listen and to put a moratorium on any destruction on Lincoln Avenue that street will be destroyed the value for each of these residents who live there both in terms of their enjoyment of the street and in terms of the value of their homes will be destroyed if this is all taken down there are workarounds and it just seems amazing to me that at the 11th hour tonight you as a as a board you are examining the tree ordinance again upon second reading one of the major major premises of this or ordinance is that street trees be preserved they are of value to each and every one of us in the past we had um our town officials going door too and knocking on doors and saying do you want your tree do you not want your tree this should never be allowed it's not up to individual residents to decide that they don't want a street tree that street tree belongs to every single person on that block and in this community and as a community we should be fighting for every single one of those trees tonight you're reexamining the um the ordinance and there are a few points that were changed um between first reading and second reading that I would like to to make some um comment about number one is that for instance today right now we have trees that could possibly be removed in the ordinance it requires that when residential trees come down that neighbors need to be notified that they need to be notified to the left to the right in the front in the back and and all on all the corners however according to this tree ordinance it was changed so that only noticed neighbors can object to tree removals this really needs to be changed because if you are not one of those noticed neighbors to the front to the back to the side to the rear you could still be greatly affected by an enormous tree coming down that could cause flooding in your basement so I'm asking that you change that so that anyone anywhere has the right to object to a tree removal removal of trees impacts everybody and it destroys our communal quality of life I also ask that you add back in that neighbors be certified by by Ma how else will we know that they are notified if there isn't a requirement that there be certification by mail I ask that you change change that and add that back in a very small point but it could be a very large point the tree replacement has now been permitted for three uh using the tree fund is now permitted for uh 3/4 of an acre or smaller in the ordinance it says 75 I ask that you put spell that out to three quarters we do not want any developers misunderstanding that we were talking about 75 Acres spell it out I also finally want to want to urge you to be very clear about the permitting process that will be going on every tree that is permitted must go on the website and it must go on immediately the purpose of this is to stop conflict between neighbors you can easily look on the website see the the trees coming down in your neighborhood you can object to it your time is up okay all right thank you thank you Susan lunic 234 Eagle Rock Avenue my comments refer to the Mount Pleasant Forest which shouldn't surprise you I've spoken about this many times a number of us over the years have presented multiple sound reasons for preserving this forest and preventing its development you have heard these reasons so I won't repeat them I have questions regarding the resistance of two council members to act on the unanimous recommend ation of the open space commission to preserve the property as open space why is this property being treated differently from other properties preserved as open space consider the cresmont property the concern was that development of that land would create runoff flooding and property damage for the residents living below the ridge those same damaging consequences could occur with the development of the Mount Pleasant Forest the welfare of the residents and the vicinity of cresmont rightly superseded concerns about any loss of tax revenue that would have been collected from property development don't the residents in the Mount Pleasant Forest Area deserve the same consideration as those in the cresmont area much harm is done when properties are seen only in terms of the taxes collected from them this Forest not is not just a piece of real estate that is a cash cow for tax revenue it is part of the common wealth of this Township to be held in common by the citizens and its preservation is for the common good the open space trust fund exists for the purpose of preserving open space the citizens of this Township voted for that trust fund there is enough money in the fund to purchase the property why would you ignore the citizens wishes combating climate change mitigating flood hazards and soil erosion and improving air quality are tasks not only for the federal and state governments on a large scale but also by local governments and thousands of communities on smaller scales at the last meeting it was stated that there must be an assessment of the health of the forest was this done with other Parcels that were preserved I don't believe that other Parcels were subject to the same scrutiny but in any case who would conduct the assessment a thorough assessment should include a study of at least 10 indicators requiring the expertise of more than one individual by what criteria will the health of the forest be judged will you share the methodology with the citizens who will pay for it and what will you do with the completed assessment is there a comprehensive plan showing action steps councilwoman Williams expressed concerns about dead trees I understand that such trees are infected danger to neighboring properties if they are close enough to impact them but healthy forests include dead and dying trees they provide food and shelter for wildlife and they recycle nutrients they open up the canopy so that other seedlings can flourish thus increasing biod diversity a dead tree on this forested 12 acre property is not the same and should not be treated the same as a dead tree on a Halfacre property in close proximity to a neighbor's home there was also a reference to zoning and how people should be able to develop their property as long as it is consistent with the zoning the fact that the area is zoned for single family homes does not preclude the purchase and preservation of the property if there are compelling reasons to do so those compelling reasons exist thank you to those of you who support this acquisition I ask the others of you to please answer my questions and reconsider your positions and I also want to follow up on the parking situation my heart goes out to you I used to live in a neighborhood like that it is absolutely intolerable what people have to go through and the township must address this issue and I have another question and that's regarding the um the containers for recycling um I I couldn't hear it all because of the air conditioning but if it's supposed to be for each individual home um what about people who live in areas where they don't have a driveway there are this is a hilly town there are 12 or 14 or 20 steps to go up and down how would they deal with that they couldn't carry those down the steps every time there was so so I'm just wondering about that if you thought about that thank you thank you Miss l anyone else hi I'm fedra singelis I'm EIC Paris sorry fedra singelis and I'm an no we still can't hear youen we can test test B sorry F right yeah fedra singelis Essex West Orange spell it she can you spell your name for her s i n g e l i s is my last name and the address again I'm sorry 6 ess6 terce thank you right below Rock Spring Golf of course um I've rushed here tonight uh leaving uh my environmental stewards class at ruers University in order to speak to you about the importance of our environment and saving all of what we can right we have developed our land to the extreme as you know we're having issues with flooding climate change habitat loss our forests are actual preserves South Mound reservation Eagle Rock reservation our forests that are so in such serious decline that they are not going to regenerate so every tree on Lincoln Avenue on my street on the property above me below me every one of them matters so I'm pleased that you are collaborating with our Green West Orange and other uh community members to pass a stronger tree ordinance I think this is a great step in the right direction um the the slope ordinance is really important as you know we're losing trees left and right due to Ash uh emerald ash bore and other diseases we are um currently studying Beach Leaf Disease which is another impact to our forest we are imperiled many many trees in our neighborhoods are imperiled by English ivy Oriental Bittersweet porcelain Berry other invasive species that are uh taking down trees left and right so we need to do more ed education and Outreach but every tree that we can save we should so please don't cut down the trees on Lincoln Avenue our the person who should be advising us is maybe not someone who's trained in forestry and I'm not saying anything against our town Forester but forestry is train training for people to cut down trees in order to produce Lumber not for ecological reasons right they're not trained in storm water and in other environmental ecological systems um so we should get some advice on that as well um and I'm Gonna Leave You with that because didn't come very well prepared tonight but uh I think another thing that we should be looking at in the future to add to our tree ordinance is Jersey City just passed a native plant ordinance in their town and I think we should take a look at that and I'll be happy to send you all a copy of that um and that will help us improve our habitat loss improve biodiversity by planting native trees that support birds and bees and all of our wildlife and all the things that support us so that's really important for us to take that next step in that process and then also I would um encourage us to think about when we make the next change to the tree ordinance is I know that we've mentioned tree of Heaven as being invasive and that's something we don't want to uh preclude people from getting rid of because it causes other problems New Jersey's also going to pass at some point soon hopefully an invasive species Bill and so there'll probably be other trees and other things on that bill that we might also want to consider allowing people to remove because the environmental positive is greater than the loss of that tree um certain trees not all trees obviously and certainly we have to take into account the storm water issues and and all of that so there has to be sort of a big picture look at at all of those things when we're talking about giving permits to take down trees thank you thank you thank you any El seeing none public comment is now closed [Music] colleagues you are invited to respond we will start with councilwoman celino sure thank you council president okay let me start with um Joy Bernett we've spoken in the past and I I feel your frustration still I've spoken with the chief numerous times about the issues at seat in a hall we've all I've also talked to other residents in in the uh neighborhood throughout the years I don't know why um they're not utilizing the parking up on Prospect more and that's been disappointing because I I know the chief has called the school in the past um and so when the ordinance was set years ago that wasn't this Council when the permit parking went up on the other streets and because obviously it's it's like moving water so you you have you know so I we got to do something about this I mean it's frustrating but there's other problems also it's not just the students as well there are also you know you have and I tell residents all the time too report any folks that have illegal apartments in their you know in their multif family homes you know people are living in basement or attics that there's not supposed to be that's additional parking um you also face in that area occasionally that you have contractors bringing their vehicles parking them in their driveway and then they're parking their family vehicles on the street because you're not supposed to have commercial vehicles in the driveway so that's also happening so I I know but this goes on this goes on too there's multiple there there's M there there's multiple issues but I I get what you're saying and I you know the chief we you know we got to figure out a way to work it out but um if we lift the Restriction off of the other streets we could we could try that I mean the chief has to give us recommendations from the police department and then we could go for there from there so right now um I know those streets all require permit parking during the day like I've even received phone calls from parents of seat in Hall uh students who receed tickets where you know where you're saying that your family has gotten tickets as well the students also are getting the tickets so I've heard you know yeah I know we don't have dialogue but but just to they are getting tickets because I've received phone calls from people complaining so that does go on so you know the police department needs to present alternatives for us to to discuss and then we have to move forward with that so that would have to be step one and I'll let the you know the chief council president on know when you want the administration to respond to this issue but um it's I'll leave that to you for a second okay you wait to the end okay so so those are my comments in regards to that it's something we have to work on and resolve and it's been long time coming because you've been waiting a a really long time um in regards to Talia young and Brett Carol thank you for coming in tonight for oh there you're still there Brett and um I I appreciate your comment about Community involvement because I know from years ago working with your dad and and all the community organizations he's been involved with Through The Years with Mountaintop and the church and all that um so you come from very good stock so uh I appreciate that comment I'm also glad to to see you here because you know one of my complaints has been we have we haven't heard anything and so we finally did from the attorney but um and I'll talk about this when we get to the resolutions but um you know I'm glad you gave some details tonight because I was prepared to vote no tonight on extending uh you I know you've had challenges but at the same token you know we we need to see progress so if you have progress um then we could have a discussion on that so I'm glad you did come in uh Nicole thank you for coming in this evening as well I'll let my colleague talked about um issues that you uh brought to her about the bylaws um I don't know why when the ordinance first came out in regards to the committee I was excited about the committee but I know I wasn't favorable of the one-year appointment because that does go too fast um I I always you know and I know how frustrating it gets before your appointment because sometimes you have um volunteers because let's face it this is all volunteer work so you have some volunteers that the first year they're all gungho and they they want to come and commit and then sometimes you know things change in their lives and they can't commit and they have to you know maybe Miss meetings that one not not be as productive as they were in other years so um I I could see we're two years but you know primarily all the other um boards is um through the uh liaison um not the liaison each Council person's term so this way they rotate out as well and um that was the one board that didn't have that option and so I wasn't supportive of that in the beginning but um I just felt it was too short but we have to have better processes in in play with um with how you could have a person who's not productive um to rotate them them out and uh but your bylaws right now the way they're written they one- year appointment so you don't need that mechanism because a person would be gone at the end of the year but again if you're that's what your board voted on to do on willing you know they be reappointed for four years it's at the discretion of the council person okay we have people and I'm gonna wait for you to discuss that councilwoman when we we get to that point so I just wanted to make those those points there in regards to parking you know again parking a nightmare nightmare a I mean I was late enough tonight I I had traffic and you know trying trying to get a spot as well because there was a lot of people here this evening but um again it's it's something that the Administration has to work on and they'll have to give us alternatives on how they're going to present that to us and um but at the same token we have to make sure um years ago I know when my husband's grandmother was in the run a house I never had any issues parking you know more people may drive that live there now and and that may be an issue she didn't drive back then when she moved in in the building so we have a lot more younger seniors coming to to live and I think that's where we're seeing why we're having uh issues with the parking so it's again something we have to look at something we have to figure out and and move on from there but um I'm not going to be um I'm not going to apologize for for um supporting you know 64 affordable units right here next to the other senior house with the health department located right there because it is an ideal location and and we have to oh good you're shaking your head okay I apologize I I took the comments the wrong way so um I was always very supportive of that for that reason and we'll have to figure parking issues out uh recycling center um Doug Adams thank you for coming in with your comments and great uh recommendation um also um in regards to the affordable housing um you know something we've have been in conversation we have close session a little later this evening that um um that we are supportive of um of your other recommendations so thank you for that as well I appreciate that and let's see as far as the the cans go um that was a good point whoever made the point of um someone who doesn't have a driveway so Chief I hope you took that note because that's something that um I guess Wayne is gone so we need to figure that out for folks who don't have a driveway in their home where they would be able to store their can if they they store them now I would presume yeah that's well something to think about somebody brought it to our attention so um and Lawrence thank you for your points on on lcol Avenue I had um and Joyce thank you for the pictures I had driven by there and I'm familiar with the street um and I had asked Administration to do whatever they can to save to save those trees because they do look healthy to us but I know there's been evaluation done and so we'll discuss we'll discuss that further we talk about the tree ordinance later this evening I know Mr Kip is here and um you know we have to be careful with our roadways I not sure if you here at the last meeting but I shared a story that um my daughter had a tree compromised from the town uh in the front of her property and at 3:00 in the morning in the middle of the night during the storm it it fell on her bedroom and I thank God that that her and my son-in-law are alive tell the tale so um with trying to save the trees there's also that balance of you know um compromised uh trees and so when I had asked about the trees on on the Block it just wasn't all for road work um many most of them were pretty much diseased I know the airs trying to hear so but we'll most of them are disease we've been told and so again well we could discuss that later when we talk about the tree ordinance and when Administration respond because if we can save them I'm I'm all for that but at the same time um if if they're compromised it's you know the alternative is a tree falling on someone and in Verona last week there was uh there was a grandfather and a six-month old baby laying in a hammock and and and and were you know were died with the tree falling right there so uh that is scary and again there's a balance but I'm supportive of doing whatever we can um to to try to save our canopy uh let's see the rest of the tree remarks I will discuss during that conversation later on and um yeah so so Susan good to see you this evening and um in regards to uh Ridge Road the the forest on Ridge Road which is a private road we have discussed this number times in the past and I I and don't don't sigh because that is an issue the issue is it's a private road with a uh old retaining wall on Mount Pleasant Avenue which will become the responsibility of the township the the driveway there or the roadway there would become the responsibility of the township so again these are all considerations so not just easy as just saying we bought the other property um and we did on Mount Pleasant we bought that property and we put a pollination Garden in uh we bought Rock Spring which produces a great deal of income for the township uh Crest uh Crest um CR uh cresmont Country Club thank you council president uh didn't Flinch with that and my biggest reservation with this is because of the Bedrock and of the developers that have shown interest through the years and I feel bad for the property owner because I'm sure they they want to sell this property um but it's come back time after time that they walk away from the purchase there's interest but there's really big expense to build up there and so for that reason um being that it hasn't been purchased um I've I've I haven't jumped on that yet because then the township wouldn't HED all those additional expenses um so wait and see if if something changes in that I may view the situation differently but for now um again I'm GNA stay you know stay put with um until something major changes of it being threatened with being purchased um but that just hasn't been the case so um with that um Mr let's see Rock Spring okay thank you too for your comments as well we'll talk more I'm curious to hear from administration too and I just want to give my two plugs in um because we didn't do conference agenda this evening West Orange Street fair is coming up on Saturday June 1st and our car show so I hope everyone saves the date and participate last year we had over 6,000 uh visitors to our downtown Corridor uh which gives great exposure to all our uh businesses and um our community there thank you Mr Fagan and there's still room for the car show our vendors have filled up and our um food truck vendors so we have actionpack activities it'll be fun Festival day and uh we hope all you can attend and we always uh pray for great weather that always helps the street fair do well with that and then the friends of the oh great thank you Mr Fagan so even though the dog park didn't kick off because of the poor weather the other day uh um the friends of the library uh trustee board uh that I'm a part of I want to uh thank them uh we figured to um to celebrate our new neighbors which would be the dog park we would take full advantage of a fundraiser for the friends group uh which purchases much needed equipment and items for the library itself uh they're announcing uh a kickoff of a brag about your pet your dog your cat your pet of the year so of your choosing so go to their website the friends website it's the information is posted here wpl friends . square. site and um enter the best pet contest and uh the winner will be announced the winners will top three winners will be announced June 2nd at the dedication of our new site and speaking of our new site I know there's been some negative feeds sometimes on Facebook in regards to parking and planning and all that great stuff but um we are seeing a tremendous turnout of so many folks coming uh to the new site um we have phase two that we'll be talking about um when that is presented and finalized with um Mr smarald Do's been working on and putting in making it more walkable and accessible uh for the patrons of the site but we have ever more parking that we ever have there's a little uh grade on there but once it's signing you could see you could enter the other side of the building where there's not such a steep uh uh grade there um I think everybody will be happy and uh they've been very accommodating so we appreciate um the new space thank you council president thank you councilwoman Council councilwoman G Michael thank you good evening um thank you for everyone who made the time to come out here tonight and also for those of you um on the zoom and for those who shared your thoughts during public comment um your voices are crucial in shaping our community and we appreciate your engagement in local matters um we look forward to Contin to to work together to make our Township a better place for everyone so um Miss vernett I am so sorry to hear that you're still having issues um with parking and it's really unfortunate for me I don't understand and maybe Chief you can chime in I don't know if who wants to at the end okay um why SE Hall kids are giving permits but not P they're not okay they're not so why isn't priority given to Residents um I don't understand when Miss Bernett stated that her perit was rescinded did I misunderstand do she doesn't have had permits they'd like you never had one you'd like to see one thank you for Okay you Okay um so maybe you can speak to this because this is an administrative um responsibility I guess and Duty thank you um so again sorry Miss Bernett I'm hoping that they can come up with the solution it doesn't make sense to me as a resident taxpayer whether you pay taxes or not your resident must AR you should be able to have parking on your street so that's I'm sorry really truly am and for any convenience to your quality of life um and to Miss Talia Young and her partner who were just up here regarding chemistry um I'm very excited that they have found a location and I hope that this works out um this is what three times the charm now so I am definitely in support of their letter of support and plan to vote down this resolution which is since um the letter of support um everyone knows how I feel about cannabis I'm very Pro cannabis I you know I believe in it healing proprieties um I also believe in the revenue for small businesses uh one of the reasons um that the state made this legal uh not only made legal but gave the opportunity to small businesses and and people who normally wouldn't get that opportunity to step into a space that is dominated by these huge corporations and companies so the fact that we have a West hor resident who lives here who want wants to invest in town is a taxpayer we want commercial ratables it is legal now um so I am 110% supportive I'm really hoping that we can oh you know lift the moratorium for cultivation to get more cultivators in town um I'm supportive it's 2% of the proceeds that we get of their revenue and why wouldn't we want free money you know it doesn't make sense to me I've been to dispensaries I have was in a really bad our car excident in July like I almost died the postman the United States Postal Service man did not stop at a stop sign ran an intersection total my car I have severe spine inury sorry I get emotional because my quality of life has changed so much and I can't sleep at night I have a dis and it's hair on my upper spine I have another D discarnation I have another dis buge and it's on my lower spine I just recovered from knee surgery torn meniscus I cannot sleep without gummies I don't want to take the heavy drugs I don't want to be on peret I don't want to be on oxies take Adil and aoxin everyday is not good for you it can mess up your stomach lining and your kidneys there are a lot of issues with taking stuff like that so I something that's more natural in my system so I'm 110% I see the power of canis I see how I feel I see how I sleep at night and I'm 110% supportive so I'm sorry for being emotional it's it's been July been going through it a lot so just happy and fortunate to be here today and alive so God wasn't ready for me yet but I am supportive and I really hope things work out for chemistry and anyone that wants to bring their cannabis business into our town so that's where I stand with that um so uh regarding the Rena house um Miss Belle and I work together closely I want to say that you are a phenomenal asset this Township the Renta house board citizens are so fortunate to have you representing them being the tenant board liaison really listening to their concerns bringing them to the meeting and working hard I mean I don't think I've witnessed someone a resident who's a volunteer thank you who's a volunteer dedicates so much time and commitment the way you have and I want to say thank you and you know she is right she did send an email on 425 requesting the bylaws in the charter if there was one and chief I forwarded the email to you just now um since Mr maraldo is out if you can please make sure they get them to her I just assume that she did but she didn't I thought maybe they responded directly to her but she has not received it yet so I I didn't fully understand your remail she's looking for the enabling ordinance that governs the role of the aler device okay I have that I'm gonna no no no R house not the board the actual Renta house what are the charters and the rules the bylaw and the bylaws that that's going to take some work I will get thank you so much um um Pastor Adams thank you so much for your advocacy thank you so much for all the wonderful ideas and um that you brought forth to us tonight I really love the idea of designating houses for those who are uniquely Eng gifted um it's unfortunately it's a population that you are right it's they're forgotten about people always think about affordable housing and low income and and you don't forget there's a whole different sector out there that that really needs access to affordable housing so I'm hoping that together and you're the chair of the mayor's uniquely gifted program you got a great relationship with the administration and the mayor hopefully you can work together to to make this happen um 100% supportive that Mr Cohen thank you so much for being your concerns to us as well I'm shocked that out of 19 trees 18 are going to be cut I saw the pictures they're beautiful I grew up in this town and I love driving and seeing all the trees it's the beauty of our town our canopy which has been in Decline I'm not a tree expert though so I don't know if those trees if you're told that those trees are not viable and they're not healthy trees I don't I'm not an expert to go out there and say well they are healthy we have to keep them hopefully as councilwoman Cino stated we can find a balance I would love to keep all eating trees as long as they're healthy we don't have an incident similar to what councilwoman Cino mentioned that happened in Verona you stated Verona so you know for me preserving health trees is vital for maintaining the ecological balance as they provide oxygen absorb carbon dioxide and support diverse wildlife habitats cutting down trees for sidewalks can disrupt this delicate balance leading to increased pollution uh reduced biodiversity and diminish quality of life for communities which we don't want um so I really would i' like to thank the members of our Green West Orange um for your continued advocacy and commitment to making West Orange a green place for working so hard with the administration Mr Jero and ourselves here Mr Mr Kip um on this uh pre- ordinance I'll reserve my comments for that um regarding the Mount Pleasant Forest my understanding if my memory serves me correctly is that last year um the the board or the year before board voted to preserve it but we don't have that Authority right there's different levels in government different branches in government we're the legislative branch all those kind of decisions have to come from the administration we vote on things here we vote on the the we control the purse strings like that's the saying that's used the budget we vote on resolutions bills ordinances but it has to come from the administration um and I and I'm really hoping that they you know if they choose to preserve it I'm 100% supportive I've talked to many people about the the forest I think it's a great assets sa plus if you build we all have issue we all know about the issue when you cut down trees there's water retention issue water runs runs off steep slopes and we don't want a repeat of what happened at the apartments of Northfield Avenue um so if the administration comes to us and says that they want to preserve the forest I will vote Yes to it that's my commitment um and um Miss Ruden I again just thank you so much um Miss Leen I responded to you regarding the uh Pleasant Forest Mount Pleasant forest and um that's it thank you so much everyone thank you councilwoman councilwoman Williams thank you uh just wanted to always continue to thank Mr Fagan for his timely announcements and notifications about everything going on uh West Orange um also wanted to make note that it is in addition to aapi month Jewish Heritage Month as well as mental health and awareness um month also so um there is a calendar um that I prepared with daily activities um that is on my personal web page um that gives everyone an activity to do on a daily basis to promote their mental health and wellness Journey um some of those activities are as simple as give yourself a compliment um open a door for someone eat something that you love go outside for a walk um but it does give you a charge um for every day to do one little thing that can improve um your mental health and well-being um miss marnette you know that I have been on this journey with you um for much longer than a few years um we have talked and talked and talked um I have gone by your house I understand the level of frustration um it is not just um what is considered um in your area the alphabet Street um we have a pervasive problem with parking downtown and I I think you've heard each of us around town not downtown around town and I think you've heard each of us speak to that um but over these many years that we have continued to talk about the parking um the challenge is that we have not created any viable Solutions and that's what we really need to do as a Administration as a community um we have to stop kicking um the the ball down the road and saying oh it's because of this it's because of that we really need to problem solve and create some solutions and the time for us to do that is really right now um I do want to say that despite the fact that I'm sure the police are justified in giving you and issuing you tickets that it doesn't make um the fact that you are a resident in this community doesn't make you feel good when you walk out and have a ticket in front of your car and I can speak to that because my son forgets to pull his car in the driveway um after 2 o'clock at night and then I wake up in the morning and he has his TI as well um so again it's just completely unfortunate there are no excuses we just have to fix it and it's just that simple so um hopefully we will be able to eliminate the ticket issue and and not be that added burden on the expenses that you have to pay um as far as cannabis is concerned um certainly want to continue um updating our ordinance so that we do receive the max maimum benefit um to our community and make sure that we are in Partnership um with good partners for the Cannabis industry it is a new industry there are a tremendous amount of unknowns um and certainly as a entity opens we will have a little more confidence in what cannabis will look like in West Orange um but we started this journey three years ago understanding that it would be some type of financial relief to our community um based on the fact that it is legal now in the state of New Jersey um we are anxiously awaiting for a entity to open um certainly we um are also looking forward to an opportunity to expand the cultivation component um it is really something that has the potential to be um not invasive to the community the biggest concern that I have um is with odor and as long as we have um rules and regulations in place to mitigate any type of um older concerns then I am supportive of us continuing to move forward to lift the moratorium on uh cultivators and manufacturers um as well as increase the number um that we have in our community um Mr Adams thank you so much for always um taking into consideration those who are marginalized um within our community and the recommendations that you presented especially about having um a central um tab on our internet where any of the affordable housing opportunities um are localized is probably one of the best recommendations that I've heard of late um that would be extremely helpful it would streamline that process and you heard me ask do you apply for even if they're in a similar Community more than one so there are some basic questions I do understand that the um housing uh Workshop that the township hosted last week um was filled to capacity being extremely informative um my ask was if that was recorded unfortunately it was not but information um for the community when we hold those types of forums um the administration I would like to request um that we record those and put that information on the website um for future reference just like we do with our Town Council meetings or any of our other meetings um that information is just Priceless um I wanted to be there myself um and unfortunately was away but um you know we just need to make sure that information is passed on as far as um our environmental concerns um I have some tremendous challenges with the tree ordinance however I am um in Desperate agreement that we do need to strengthen our tree ordinance um but there are some concerns and we have to find an opportunity to to balance the needs of um maintaining our tree canopy without being punitive towards our um residents um we have to also keep in mind that we live in a very biased world and unfortunately when you Empower people um that don't have any Financial responsibil ability or liability um to other people's property it can present um some challenges and and I'll discuss that further once we get to um the actual ordinance um as far as preserving the forest is concerned um again we can talk to that um when it is a viable issue um the administration can drive whatever we seek to do but I have um certainly made it very clear that it is zoned properly or it is zon for a single family housing and I'm not in opposition to the single family housing I think with the tree ordinance and strengthening the tree ordinance um that that will give some relief to some of the concerns and then we talk about um water retention and um making sure that we do U mitigate any type of um water that may uh contribute to flooding Downstream or down the block and what we also have to understand is when we go to all of these environmental classes because I have um become Green certified by the state of New Jersey is that there are also requirements that have to be put in place to capture that water so that there is not flooding and so when we talk about making sure we don't cut down or remove any trees and some of the impact we also have to take into consideration that there are guidelines and laws that are implemented and and mandated by the state of New Jersey that protect some of those concerns that we do actually have or that we're speaking through um so I think it's sometimes um a very one-sided uh conversation and communication um when we're only talking about the damage um we have to also cons um consider that there are mitigating rules and regulations so that those things don't happen and in some cases leaving a forest that's abandoned and and not in its healthiest condition um if you were to go in and put in some of these water mitigation efforts it would better uh suit the the residents that are impacted by the flooding and provide um a much more healthier space um than than what it is just leaving um Forest untreated and and and uncamp um so those are my preliminary comments um also wanted to just talk about um the small Works exhibit um that's at the Arts Gallery Center um that will be showcased through the end of May and then starting on June 1st they will do their installation for their juneth exhibit also wanted to remind the public about the upcoming juneth um Film Festival that will be held in um West Orange for juneth on June June 21st through 23rd um we are finalizing all of the films we have about seven or eight different films um some films submitted by residents former residents graduates of West Orange High School um it's going to be a really fun opportunity um we're going to open on the 21st with a uh opening reception held at the Cambria Hotel um we will be um screening films at each opportunity um some of the partners that we will have will be of course Luna stage um AMC Theater the West Orange Public Library um the Arts Gallery all of these um different locations will host different movies and again we'll get that schedule out um hopefully by the end of the week with all the locations finalized um but it is going to be one of the um fun events that we have um planned for juneth and on the Cuffs buus of West Orange um just looking to host its own movie studio um with the black Mariah being restored and just us being the home of innovation and invention um I think it is much appropriate for us to um have this Film Festival here and I'm hoping that all of our residents will find at least one film um that they will come out and enjoy um most of the films will have panelists um to do a talk back opportunity and we're pushing really really hard um to make sure that we have sponsors so that um everything except for that opening reception will be free to the public um so thank you that completes all of my um announcements at this time thank you councilwoman councilwoman scar great thank you um Joy Bernett I know how hard you work all day with those kids and I am so sorry that when you get home you cannot park your car it's unconscionable to me that these seat and Hall students are prioritized over taxpaying residents that live on that street we have heard back when you came here almost a year ago we heard I think was Claire sylvestri got up and talked about what they've done in Boston we've had other residents talk talk about where people live around universities and this is a problem permit parking is given to neighbors I believe this is a matter of fundamental fairness that we give priority to our residents over seat and Hall students and other people who may not live there and I'd like to make a motion to give permit parking to the residents of that street that's an ordinance it's not a a motion okay need can we can we look at adopting the uh making so can we just hold all that because I okay so we'll we'll talk about that but I would be very much in favor of giving residents permit parking on that street I think it's a matter of fundamental fairness um especially with the taxes we paid and the sore taxes that have gone up um Nicole Bell I want to thank you so much for the work that you have done on that Rena board I have to agree with councilwoman gber your advocacy for those residents is admirable um your efforts to bring them to our older adults Advisory Board and have them actually tell their stories was moving and even at our last meeting they continue to come they came again and you know what they told us the same problems that I've been listening to for a decade the problems are Transportation the problem problems are communication the problems are all of the things that you've identified in and I know how hard Rosary melli worked you can hear her stories over and over when she was on that Rena board to get new windows and to mitigate dangerous life threatening issues so I hope the chief will get you the information you need and I look forward to assisting you in any way I can and our whole board can to um give those residents the respect that they deserve and make a nice safe environment for them um I love the idea that they keep coming back and with that I think we need to really respect their need to have a voice and to make sure that we do not move that that or that group to the library where they would not have access I think it's important with a new um home coming on a new 64 new units that all these uh residents really have us there to speak with um and I am working on our transportation with our transportation committee on both transport further newer Transportation ideas and also on Communications um Pastor Adams thank you for enlightening us about the affordable housing I think you know as a speech language pathologist in our schools our special needs residents hold a very special particular children very special place in my heart and I think that I would be open and advocate for any of the things that you've talked about I think they're really wonderful um oh Nicole I did forget um I did want to mention that Sam did had submitted the bylaws to the clerk they've they had to go through legal so I assumed they were going through legal they are on the agenda tonight and I assume all of us will pass the bylaws without a problem um Mr Cohen Lawrence Cohen thank you so much for contacting me for your deep understanding of all of the issues surrounding the trees on your street the flooding the curbs um the ways to mitigate some of those things I was very touched when you talked to me about the 15-year-old on your street who had been studying about environmental issues in school and the wealth of knowledge that he had that he imparted to the neighbors I only wish he could be here to talk to us because perhaps that might move us to do everything we could to preserve those trees I did reach out to our Forester Walter um and he did say he would go up there and do whatever he could um I would just ask the administration to look at some of the more Creative Solutions we have to do doing the curb outs around the sidewalks talking to the residents because they really seem like they do want to preserve those trees and if we're looking at cost if it's an economic issue of doing a little bit more work around the sidewalks to preserve the trees I know I believe it would be money well spent so um thank you for coming and talking to us and I'm sure Walter will do everything he can um Joyce Ruden again thank you for all of your work on tree ordinance for your advocacy for making us understand the Val the value of those trees the value to our home prices that's that's important and I think a lot of residents don't realize that I think a lot of residents also don't realize that a lot of these flooding problems that we have are because of the decimation of the trees and those tree roots that are sinking up all of the water I came out a decade ago to Gregory school when they were doing work and cutting down trees as part of a renovation of a driveway because my neighbors I live on Gregory Avenue were experiencing serious flooding um from the runoff that went down down the street and a lot of large trees unfortunately unnecessarily during the construction were taken down and I even knew a resident who loves West Orange and said I have to move and actually moved up the hill because they were experiencing so much flooding so we have to really think about how we're going to deal with the flooding problems in this town and I hope I'm sure Walter will do as much as he can to uh help us in that regard um in terms of all your recommendations I agree with all of them on the tree ordinance what I want you to understand is I've made several attempts to clarify the three quarters of an acre in the 75 I think any of us who are familiar with contracts who have work who have worked in business and understand contracts can see that this change in language is incredibly important to avoid misinterpretation and I had contacted Mr janaro and more recently there was a miscommunication and it was not put in there I contacted the chief they assured me we would be able to do it if I have to make a motion to have that happen at the appropriate time we will but as you've all pointed out a point could be misconstrued or t Mis taken off of a document and it would look like 75 Acres so um thank you for being so astute and picking that up as well as some of the other residents who have worked with contracts and picked that up with me as well um Susan lenek again preservation of the Mount Pleasant Forest I think you know how I feel about that when winter comes and severe rain hits and I watch that waterfall off that mountain onto Eagle Rock or onto Mount Pleasant Avenue and I've watched the accidents we've had so many accidents in that area particularly in the winter time when it turns to ice it's really I we can't cut any trees off it Forest because I believe it will cause a real Hazard and I am open to doing whatever we need to do to maintain that forest and to buy if we have to buy it we have to buy it but I don't want to see anything any building on that and I kind of agree maybe the expertise of that Fay talked about maybe the expertise of an environmentalist who has some real uh background and credentials in flooding and some of these environmental issues would be worth uh looking at and um I don't know Fay if she's still here she it's her first time coming but I will contact her and it sounds like she can really educate all of us so I think I've gotten everyone um in terms of uh my committees OAC has some some incredible things uh going on beginning in June June and for our next council meeting I will have a calendar for you oh great okay so you could take a look uh you could get this on our website they begin June 8th um with the songs of Rosemary Clooney um and you can see all of the fabulous um programs they have the movie night is always fun Motown I can't wait for and the JazzFest so I urge you to go to the website and I am putting a little calendar together of events around town myself and I will make sure those are on there um in terms of the older adults Advisory Board once again the Spring Cafe has been in full motion this spring I want to thank Laura van djk and Noelia Perez for all of their hard work they are two people that run that department that have many many jobs and they have made time for uh that Cafe in the residents are all enjoying it thank you councilwoman um I'm going to be as brief as possible Mr Fagan as always appreciate your uh timely and uh important announcements um want to address the parking issue um my memory is a little it's not quite what it once was I guess but I I thought uh prior to Mr leapor leaving we had that we had some uh formal action in the body um to do some study or something in that on that street I can't remember exactly so we're going back probably two years or more um and then I know we've had the transition and now just tonight we swore in U director car Balo so um if possible Mr uh Abbott U please you know help us understand what we've already done to address parking there and um if you can are there other side streets that are excluded from the permit parking and if so uh let's look at all of those and if not then why is plot the only one I mean there may be a public safety issue there may be some other I don't I don't know what they are so I don't believe any of the other alternate sides in the alphabets have um uh permit I don't think I can check on it yeah but I don't think Osborne is Osborne's two to5 it's not an alternate side street it's two to it's no parking two no parking two 2 am. to 5: a.m. I I I'll check it tomorrow you know in case I'm misspeaking but I'm pretty sure on that it's not an alternate side street the rest of the alphabet streets are alternate side none of them have permit parking I have no opposition to doing permit parking there if that's what the governing body wants to adopt um I do want to make it clear that Sean Hall Prep is not given any priority they're parking where it's legally to park now when they Park illegally we've even towed their cars um they get tickets every everybody you know obviously if Joyce say Joy has tickets we're giving tickets out you know I mean no nobody writing tickets knows who car that is whether it's a seat allall preps kid or it's a a a resident you know there's no way of knowing that they're they're riding tickets they there's times when they're busy and they don't get to it there's times when they do I went down there myself the next day after the last complaint and there was nobody parked on the stop sign I'm sure they do park there I'm not calling out on that I'm sure they do um but I'm sure they get tickets too it's just that it's it's h Miss we have a park one parking enforcement officer civilian employee who's you know I keep track of he's giving out tons of tickets so it's being done lots of streets lots of parking problems um if if the council wants to do permit parking what I would like to see done is to bring in an outside engineering firm to study the whole Eastern Corridor of town with all the alternate side streets and make a determination of what can be done to be safe and improve parking at the same time kind of feel like that's something wasn't started we did it more with Lenny and in the traffic be more informally it would have required oneway streets and the residents were mostly opposed to it don't the residents have to oh sorry council president don't they have to also um you have to survey them for the to make permit parking on the street there's nothing saying we have to do any that we do that as a courtesy to their residents so they want that's with okay so she seems like there's support there just just what I would like the council to consider is when you do it on that street the next street so if you're going to do it do it every do it all at once right and that that would be my recommendation is that when we look at this we do it you know one time for the entire area uh and also see what we can do to be you know good neighbors with seeden Hall I know they have students that want to drive and I believe they have a shuttle from the athletic uh facility down to the school uh I mean so I've asked Satan Hall more times than I can remember to address this it's B and de years I haven't even had the courtesy of a conversation response um I've asked both the zoning and planning board to not address their pending applications until they sit down and resolve this problem they have I believe something for a uh a stem Center prop on their property and I think something up the C Kelly athletic center and I can't control what the land use boards do but that was been my suggestion to them until they are willing to address this parking issue either everybody Parks up there and takes the shuttle and if there's not a room not enough room then only seniors get to yeah Drive their car to school colleges and universities do it I'm sure they'll survive and given the lack of response I think we should have the permit parking for the residents who pay tax I've never I to be clear I've never opposed permit parking I really think that's the solution so Mr Mr rabbit do we need to do a study for that entire Corridor or to in order to think that's the best way to do it because I think it addresses even even the alternate side you're going to have to address the alternate side if you have permit parking um as well and that is so Antiquated um from 5:00 pm till midnight on Wednesdays you can park on both sides with two-way traffic which is disastrous and all day on Sunday you can park on both sides with two-way traffic which is disastrous um occasional road rage incident you know people won back up and uh it's just it's it's Antiquated it's designed from when you know people had one car you think about it these homes were built without driveway so they didn't even contemplate people having cars and their husbands and spouses having cars and their kids having cars you know having a car back when those homes were built was total luxury I get it I I I would encourage um the administration to particularly the mayor uh to speak with the planning board we've had an opportunity to increase parking with at least one pro project that um was brought before us this year it would have only increased it by one additional spot but it still would be one additional spot um like every one of those opportunities have to be seized upon uh sometimes small um you know what looks like a small change makes a big impact so you know we should be doing what we can as uh a collective in these various spaces that have some authority to address it U but if a study is needed uh I would be supportive of allocating the funds to get the study done so so that we can do it in the entire Corridor um Miss Bernett I do sympathize with you I've worked on this I I can't remember the details but I remember you and I spoke about it and I spoke with director leapor spoke with Mr Rabin and some others um I think in the shuffle between Mr leaport retiring and uh our new director coming on it fell through the crack so I apologize for that uh but we are back on it now and I think you can hear from the council that we are supportive of having a permanent solution to um the parking issue there we just want to be informed when we do it uh so you know I I can't speak for my colleagues but I I certainly do at least um from what they've said tonight I think that um starting sooner rather than later with regard to the study uh so that we can actually get to changing whatever the rules are over there um all right um Miss Young Mr Carol um I'm happy to discuss this when we get to it but I am certainly supportive of being um uh of of accommodating uh the unique challenges you guys have faced um Miss Bell you know how highly I think of you and all of the um work that you do uh we've already addressed both the Renta house and the uh older adults Advisory Board um Pastor Adams I think uh you know certainly as uh someone who was personally impacted by uh special needs Community uh and my own family I understand the need for um um housing for those that are able to live independently uh as well as those that need to live in a group setting uh I do understand the rules around affordable housing as well um so happy to incorporate some of that where we can um there you know without getting into the weeds just my general philosophies I'm I'm generally supportive of that uh Mr con I reached out to Mr Kip as well uh I want to thank Mr Kip for uh being responsive um with regard to those trees Mr Kip if you wouldn't mind i' I'd like to to to get your feedback on this um it was my understanding that in a prior council meeting I think it was last year um and I can't remember what what we were working on uh but there was a unanimous um uh position on the council that uh if we could do bump outs uh for the curb um or other alterations around the road I specifically remember my commentary had just come back from Charleston uh and Charleston uh has a ton of trees that are you know the the black top is right up to the tree uh doesn't have a a curb at all uh in some cases and they do that because they have severe flooding as well I thought our approach was going to be to um you know get creative with the solutions um so that we could keep more of the uh shade treats uh when we do road work um is that still the is that what is that the philosophy we come on come on up uh I'm W Kip I'm the town Forester um yes it always has been my goal to save as many trees as possible this specific Street these trees have been grounded before the roots have been grounded out put Curves in 30 20 30 years ago I was told oh can you speak up a little louder please the uh on Lincoln Lincoln the trees have currently been ground their Roots have been ground about 20 to 30 years ago when they put the sidewalks in the new curbs decades ago now they've been things have been getting Hollow things have been the the trees have been hacked by the power company so they only have one limb on one side they have these big gigantic cuts that rotten out rotted out um Tammy can intest to this she had a tree in her backyard I went out looked pretty good on the outside nothing wrong with it on the outside it was perfectly fine okay I said ah better check the better sound test this and make sure it's okay so I sound tested it it's Hollow on the inside you couldn't tell that from the skin because it looked fine but maybe two weeks after I went out there we started in place where it was a state tree so they you know we got them in place we did a little thing and two weeks later the tree fell down on her neighbors and her house came down so that's why I'm saying a tree can be perfectly healthy on the outside leaves could be good skin could be good but the hollow oness of the tree or root rot got in there termites things like this from the wounds we've created by grounding the Roots by putting in the new sidewalks and putting the new curbs in the past we've ground The Roots a perfect example of this if you go down Rock Spring Road you'll see four dead gigantic Ash of gigantic oak trees they're probably this big around they're dead because we grounded when we put in the curb and sidewalk there was no sidewalk on Rock Spring excuse me I misspoke when they put in the curb we ground the root stamp to get the curbs in at the proper and now the trees have all died there's four trees on that street and there's two or three other ones that are going just on Rock Spring Road that goes to the golf course it was a little short street but we damaged a lot of the roots we saved it because the resident wanted to save it but now they're dead three years later they're dead big gigantic trees they become hazards when they start to die or when they get their Roots ground that's why on this street alone these trees are not healthy they're just not healthy and any arborist I'm not a I wasn't a classic Forester I never went into Forest I've been an urban Forester for 40 years I've seen this many years and I know I I've taken many hydraulic glasses because I do have a degree environmental science of course so water is an issue here 100% we should do more planting last year we didn't do much planting 35 trees that's all we planted last year from a grand the residents took down proximately 800 trees last year the residents did the town took down 108 trees of our 10,000 on dist stre trees so it's not the town that's taking down the trees it's the residents are taking down the majority of the trees by Eightfold it's the residents that are taking down that's why we need the thank you uh Mr Kip I appreciate your thoughtful comments and I I I understand so you know I I wanted to um and to those that sent the emails I've not responded but I wanted you to know that one we take those seriously um I think multiple council members reached out to Mr Kip Mr Kip was responsive to each one of us um I am going to visit the site one day this week uh probably Thursday um and we are uh when it comes to saving those trees in particular on Lincoln Avenue we are all on the same page uh we just have to do it in a responsible way um if they are healthy and can be saved then then we can be creative about it let's do it but you are right and that's we've got to plant more trees um and and that's why it's important to has the the tree ordinance uh that's why it's important to fund uh replanting from the township side um and that's why we have um you know done so much work on this tree ordinance uh which has made it uh what some people would call very restrictive but in a town like ours that has lost the canopy almost I think we're down to 27% coverage corre um you know we've got to do something significant in order to reverse that Trend uh any other questions or comments for Mr Kip uh regarding Lincoln Avenue or any of the other question Michael sorry thank you um Mr Kip so when residents have complaints thinking that the trees are healthy because they look healthy from the outside but they aren't on the inside do you have proof to show them to alleviate their concerns like look it is hollow it's dying it's not healthy I do when the refat come out and say this I do tell them like today number 16 Lincoln the tree is healthy the reason why it has to come down it's when we put the curb in the sidewalk in it's going to destroy the root system 100 because the sidewalk is up like this and the curb is out like this so it's got to be pulled out there's no way to preserve it or save it there's no way to work around it no because just the way the slope of the land is the sidewalk would be like this we'd have to put a it's not g to work are there any of them that we want to come down because they're bending could we prune them in any way maybe to save them there's um with the with when they're leaning like this they've all been the power company has cut off the one left side of the tree the entire left side tree and they're coming out going towards sunlight out into the street yeah and they've got a very bad lean can you just cut off the top like I've seen a magnolia that they just cut the top and then all the branch little ones are gr so so we can get the specific Solutions yeah but I do have a general question regarding the power company uh are there any guidelines from the township as to how they PR they are mandated by the state and what they have to do they have to clear the power lines and he's taking within a certain amount of feet away and they have to clear it far enough away for a fiveyear cycle so there's nothing we can do to they they try their best I know the Forester personally and he try I try to explain to them to help us with our trees that's not right there I can see it so listen uh sir I do appreciate it but we we have to have some ground rules so comment is I'll tell you right now this tree was grounded out about 30 years ago and you look at the base of the tree there's a root rod that's in the base of the tree it's rotted back of the tree Tre on that tree that's an oak tree in the corner I know this tree personally yeah so so so we will we will uh in here we can't deal with these specific uh solutions for each particular tree um but we are interested in being as creative as possible one of my papers we are interested in being as creative as possible to save them um and in simultaneously what we can't save we need to be intentional about replanting right um whether it's there or well clearly there too um but in other places as well on that job we have 200 trees to plant on those uh in that uh that section of phase 2021 phase two we have 200 trees in that contract alone to plant in that area where we took down the trees and also all the other areas that are in on the paving that we didn't take down the trees there are spaces to plant trees thank you uh Mr Kip any other questions for Mr Kip before yes Council these plans can you send them to us just let us know what's happening around town because sorry because we have many residents that come to us and are concerned about these issues so if we know in advance you're going to plant 200 trees somewhere then we can explain to them look this is what's happening the township is trying to you know conserve or on these projects It's usually the town engineer yeah well whomever I'm assuming they have the plans available I know that because they give me the plan so I know what I'm doing question yeah I can speak with zth and thank you have you whenever she'll give you the paving plan yeah what we have done we've started now that Z about this tier we have uh in the construction road construction projects we are putting in more plantings I I don't it's if you say if you have to take down 18 trees in one of the spots I usually time that by three and how many trees we're going to plant back so in this project we're probably taking about 30 trees now so we're GNA plant like 200 so we hi I just wanted to make um a brief comment um just a little bit of a concern that I have just based on some of the commentary um this evening and it seems even sometimes when you're um perusing through social media and listening to some of the comments about tree removal in West Orange um specifically some of the emails that I've received about tree removal uh there seems to be a a sentiment that either our Forester whether it be Mr Kip um um and and I think we went through a transition period with a new Forester obtaining a new Forester because there were so many complaints um regarding the previous Forester um but Mr Kip to his credit has um indeed done everything that um he can um we've just heard here tonight that there is intentionality about saving and preserving our tree canopy when it can be um but I I as I left the room you know we spoke to the fact and I have advocated for um us to do a complete analysis of our trees in the town um you know it's personal because people have lost their life um driving down um roads in West Orange certainly we've heard the stories about what has happened in Verona just last week about the loss of life and and again the tree that fell in my own personal backyard and damaged um our properties as well trees look healthy to us because we're not profession profs but they're not and it's just as as as we got into a back and forth and in an exchange where Mr K being the professional licensed trained person just explained to you who says that this tree looks perfectly healthy um that it's not and and so I I just want us to respect um the professionals that the municipality hires um we all love trees we all want to protect our tree canopy we all understand um that we have to do some Extreme Measures in order to regrow our our tree canopy but I don't like it when we imply um that our our professionals either don't know what they're doing or really don't care about our community and the Cy that's not why we hire them I don't think that he's here um just for a paycheck he is genuinely concerned about the environment and trees and and I just think we should respect that oh by the way we are getting tree inventory by an outside contractor it should be done by this fall uh he's already got 8,000 of them in inventoried so he's got to do another 2,000 so he's gonna have a say of what they have a professional Arbor Davey Tree is doing the canopy assessment um the tree assessment for us and he's already done 8,000 so he's got about 2,000 more to go approximately uh and all trees will be all Town trees will be inventor not the ones in the Parks and stuff like that but all the ones along the street will all be inventory thank you so we'll have a complete list of their health what they recommend doing it'll be an outside contractor nothing to do with the town nothing to do with any politics anything like that just an outside guy that's doing it there's two people doing it exra thank you and and we'll get a chance to to talk to him further with the tree ordinance as far as implementing and and um later on in the program yeah you you'll still be here okay because I just want to for those who may not stick not not be here at that point in time I just want to noted that you're you're full-time with us now Mr Kip with this position so in years past that was not the case we have built money into the the budget through the past few years to have a full-time Forester where we had a part-time Forester we also have put money into the budget the past few years and this is for you folks getting ready to leave to hear this that how we are serious with the monies we put to the side for plantings as well so I just wanted to make those points thank you thank you Council woman uh Mr Kip thank you um I think we're we're uh done with this part I just want to say uh to my colleagues um the the real issue is not that they don't necessarily trust Mr there's just a general level of distrust with uh the administration um there are folks that are um not willing to take at face value almost anything um and whether we like it or not or agree with it or not uh we do give them ammunition so if we want to have greater public trust that is our responsibility to engender it and create it and cultivate it and a part of that is uh when we make these statements like we're going to be serious about uh funding uh planting of trees that we actually follow through with that uh we're in the budget season now um I expect that we will um you know it may take four votes uh it may take four votes to get that done um but I'm supportive of it as well and I would like to see the entire entire Council be supportive of it because uh it is that dire of a situation um Mr I'm sorry uh I'll deal with the tree ordinance uh when we get to it um I have always uh been supportive God bless you of uh preserving Mount Pleasant Forest um if we get another opportunity to do it I would support it again um and I think that's it um all right can we get to our actual agenda oh yes um just have to pull the one resolution and then approve it to go into executive session yeah so um we do need to go into executive session uh colleagues which one is the executive 151 uh 151 explain to can you explain to the uh to everyone here the the residents and constituents here in person and online why we're going to Executive session versus just making them wait the hour however long it takes and then coming back sure so uh we have a uh executive session for the purpose of discussing our downtown Redevelopment project um we have an attorney who has been sitting here patiently um all night um this attorney is on the clock we are are paying him uh so rather than have him wait until the end of the meeting um and then handle the executive session we're going to do it now so that we can one free his time up and to stop the clock on the uh the bill that's being tallied um so um I offer a motion to um well actually we got to pull it do we have to pull it first and then do it yeah we can vote on it 15124 offer a motion to approve 15 uh councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams council president Rutherford yes thank you honors we be back uh sorry to make you wait um tonight's going to be a a little bit longer we are back from executive session I want to thank you all for your patience uh those joining virtually and in person um we are now ready to continue with our agenda agenda Madam clerk okay it's time to review the the consent agenda approval of minutes of previous meeting executive session of April 4th 2024 and the public meeting of April 24th 2024 consent wait um I'm gonna abstain from the executive session minutes because I wasn't here I'm still recovering from me surgery right and uh yes to the public and no I'm abstaining I abstain too but yes to the public meeting approval for April 24th okay on virtually Council Pres you're abstaining from the public meeting of April April 24th okay okay thank you that was my surgery okay uh report of Township officers none reading of petitions and Communications and bids none uh Bill list for 5724 consent consent resolutions are any resolutions being pulled this evening yes um 150 15 mhm okay so I have a question regarding 15324 what are um what are these these for these are for the um the or it passed on second reading I believe it was at the last meeting for the pools and the the plot plan so it'll go into effect I believe for the next pool season I'll leave that up to director fanino to clarify either at the next meeting or via email tomorrow but my understanding is the rates are staying as they were for the 2024 season before we amended the ordinance these rates would then go into effect for the next year okay these and these fees are only for the public um pools these are not for residential homeowners pools correct there are also fees I believe for plan review they're two separate um resolutions there related to the pools the first relates to the public pools and the second I believe relates to um review of the commercial like plan review fees so yeah I believe they apply a commercial yes right not reidential that's my understanding I'm just double-checking as we speak there was a list on there 152 is the plan review and that was my question is that for residents is that or is that for everyone just give me one second yes 152 and 153 153 is there's a list yes but that's just for um that's not residential that's not residential no no but 152 is the says for all new construction yeah we still have to send the uh yeah so the ordinance the ordinance itself reads that all applicants for a swimming pool license shall submit at any time of initial application for a license five copies of plot plan drawn the scale um it goes on to describe the plot plan and an addition there to uh disclos location of parking facilities Etc and there shall be a plan review fee of it now says to be prescribed by resolution right because it's because we have sent to the engineering consultant to review that that's probably why there's I get it I just wanted to make sure because it's not clear in the resolution that this is because it it says all new construction but I didn't know if that meant just those that are listed in 153 or is it for residents and everybody else no matter what pool you're putting in no that's why I clarify it's only for residential that was a question so Mr I'm sorry it's only for commercial it doesn't include understand is it only applies to I'll double check with director Vons you know if I can get them on on a text message but wouldn't it be director kho no not not for 152 director F sorry but I I I believe that that question was asked at the last meeting and yes I believe it only applies to the six or so seven or so listed on the 150 so this is not 152 is not for residents correct that's what I understand so Mr jenero it's really confusing for residents who view the agenda and the resolutions it's it's not clear in here if on the website can you include a hyperlink to the actual uh ordinance so people can then view yeah I can absolutely do that what I can whatever you think is easier I can either resend both together to Karen circulate to the council or I can but us but also for the resident no in the future I'll make sure to include something that references it more clearly than just stating the ordinance number the chapter the section if I can do a hyperlink in it I'm happy to I would imagine I can do that but well when I upload it on the website I can include the ordinance along with it great we can absolutely do that problem solve thank you both very much you can never have enough information on these on 153 I have a SE question um and this is probably for U Mr rabbit perfect timing um on 153 so it's my understanding that these are we're just carrying forward what the fees were previously now that we have to prescribe the fees by resolution this is the resolution that's going to do it right so I just have a question why are Hotel so a is hotel and motel B is Country Club C is health or swim clubs why are health or swim s clubs not the same amount as the hotels or the country clubs I can probably get Mr fono on to answer that specifically but my best guess would be that they probably have a much heavier impact and require much closer scrutiny to ensure the health you know the safety and purity of the water I I you know I would hope that if I'm at the health club or if I'm at the country club that water is well unfortunately we've had instances in the past that have spoken to the opposite of that there's been issues I don't want to start singling out specific or anything like that but we've had Property Maintenance and code enforcement issues with certain of the health or swim clubs in the Township in the harder when they're indoors you think it' be easier to maintain their got it yeah all right I don't know that that was the exact reasoning I just know that that as like a general fact gotcha all right I mean I it's not going to keep me from voting on it okay I have a comment at 156 question on 156 we have a comment com okay yes so I I just want to thank um Ros palety and uh uh Rob Mr Robert Daniels for advocating for many many years this has been a long time coming starting the process uh for um this action plan for this signal at I280 East ramp eastbound ramp and Pleasant Valley way it's on the other side of 280 by Buckingham over on that side um and we just been having multiple issues um with residents with it's just not pedestrian friendly so this will sort the process of moving towards that and I appreciate them for their advocating with this with Mr leapor for many years and for actually miss carala and congratulations to her I uh was not um I was late this evening unfortunately and missed her being sworn in as one of our newest directors um for all her efforts and moving the ball forward on this project thank you council president sure I have a question regarding this as well sure um on this um it says that this is to be done yeah have these crosswalks already been installed I think they have I don't know which one is that we're on 156 crosswalks is pleas Valley so they they so this is also the same intersection where they put in the no turn on right no right on red so this the state this is a long process I'm not sure exactly where with the process because I didn't get a chance to talk to um Z on this uh specifically but this is this because it's it you have to deal with the state it took a very long time for the state to give their approval and for them to respond and to my knowledge Chief I think we just got the responses from the state so we can move forward with this project this is additional I believe these are sub but these aren't the ones that were yeah done if that's what you're asking not not at the I'm not so this is on Pleasant Valley Way by 280 right by yeah this is my block that's what I'm saying the crossworks when I turn right to get on the 280 they were there they weren't there this is also the signal the signal so on the other side of the street from where your neighborhood is there's a piece that doesn't have a sidewalk I believe and then um the other part of it is making it Ada accessible with the with the ramp with the ramp yeah yeah so I don't know that that part has been done you you may know better than me but I I um I I think the issue is so well Chief do we know we just don't even have to thing well the the state wasn't moving on it we're we're we stating tonight is we agree to pay 25% of the cost and I'm fine with that the only concern I have is that the state has may have already done the work is my question and if they had and then we hadn't agreed to do the 25% then what happens then but I don't so again we would have to back check and make sure that nothing has been done but I thought some of it has already started so I'm just bringing that to our attention as an iny no well this is for the signals not the crosswalks itself that's what I'm reading yeah it's the signals okay yeah and I'm just reading back and make sure I got it straight and I I have it's for The Pedestrian signal heads and curb Cuts yeah there's some with the 88 and the curb Cuts so just check on it who but we're not gonna stiff the state no we're not but yeah I just mean I it's interesting that they would start the project and we don't and not well again this has been a long time coming Mr laort had started this but it it didn't get completed okay in its entire sorry that on I believe so is it necessary it's already that's up to you thank you m director um I think we're good follow yeah um on so no no no we're good better go to bed um on 155 question I'm not pulling I I'm not pulling anything but I have a bunch of questions on 155 what are the normal protocols for Recovery of expenses for um training when and like what how long do you have to stay before that we don't recover like what so it's statutory and it's uh two years and it's like 100% the first year from the day you graduate the academy and then I believe it's 50% for the second year um some police Chiefs don't go after it and as a courtesy I feel it's a fiduciary responsibility that's not my money to give away so how much is it uh this one I grabbed that because I should have asked to have it in the ordinance and I didn't but I I actually did I it's 31307 65 so 31 31,000 yeah trunk to change I I was concerned about that as well but I um when I called Chief and asked him about it and he said well he was only here for three months and that's a tremendous amount of money that the taxpayers spend to train some for them to leave and you know at the end of the day I I I could not because my concern was is he gonna have to pay it back out of whoever the officer was is he she I didn't ask that information but I was concerned that they may have to pay it back out of their pocket and then when it was explained that it is a statutory requirement and that is $30,000 and you weren't here for three months I I think you should but does does the individual officer pay it or does so the statute says it's incumbent upon the municipality to pay it it's my understanding some municipalities this this particular one's NJIT it's University but some municipalities have negotiated with people are hiring that they're willing to pay it out of their pocket I don't touch that that's between them and the bill to the town right got it okay I'm clear on that thank you very much thank you councilwoman [Music] um I'm curious about in 157 with regard to Zu fall are they a nonprofit they are a nonprofit I believe where they're in the well they're applying we not in the uh yeah so there's the property process of applying so does the property pay property taxes I think it's like 2third of exemp now but they're applying for this um we just I just had a whole conversation with Jacob nean our tax assessor today and you know trying to sort of wrap my head around this so right now it says you know based on the announcements onethird of the developers fee would be exempt from the non-residential development this is just the developers fee this isn't the property tax it seems like they're going to be applying to be tax exempt and will probably get it and be a tax exempt property yeah because if they were already tax exempt then we would they still have to pay this fee I think it's uh do you remember Steve I think it's a reduced fee right I thought so but I can double check on that as well all right I mean so I'm I'm comfortable with your answer um I I I accept that they will likely be awarded uh tax exempt status if they are in fact apply well keep in mind for this facility they do a tremendous amount of um all of their services for free I know Zu fall I know I get it I just if they were I'm shocked that they're not already tax exempt um and so you know it would make sense to me if they were given what they do that they would already be tax exempt I I would have thought so too so this kind of surprised me when I saw it um when I talked to Jacob he explained that they're in the process of so the corporation may be tax exempt but I guess the property is not so they have to try to apply that sometimes when you buy a property and build sounded like it was a given like it's gonna happen yeah gotcha that's it for my questions Council M Michael pulled 150 yes yeah do you want to approve the consent agenda anything else being pulled no no yeah let's do it okay is there a motion to approve second okay all in favor I any opposed the consent agenda is implemented councilwoman gber Michael pulled 1524 resolution closing the time frame for chemistry LLC to cure its application for a resolution of local support I think I made myself pretty clear in my response to public comment I don't think it's fair to resend their letter of support we asked the status on all entities that receive letters of support there were a few that we haven't heard from the township said that they would send a letter they did they were responsive I think it's only fair that we give them an opportunity and I don't believe in resending this this application I don't think it's fair um I you know I voted clearly as we all did to resend Peace of Minds because we haven't heard from them they' ghosted us we we don't know what's going on what their status is if they're even still interested they don't even have a location anymore um but at least she came her business partner is here I'm sorry I don't remember your name he's here she was here with her kids they're West Orange residents I think would be a disservice to them and a slap in the face to them to resend uh the license all the hard work all the money that's invested The Blood Sweat and Tears so I mve to int to vote down this res hold on one second before you do that can I just clarify that this no this is what they want this gives them a 90 this is probably what they want this gives them an additional 90 days the other one there's two on tonight the other one resins this gives this gives chemistry an additional 90 days then you know what then I take that back I apologize guys please forgive me I'm tired I'm in pain I'm getting neck injections I'm being put to sleep tomorrow so I'm trying to sit through this and it's been a crazy recovery for the last month uh four weeks so totally understand um I I take that back because I'm very into so so so offer is someone gonna offer a motion to approve 150 150 second 150 yes okay um councilwoman calinao yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman scorpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay the motion carries okay um ordinances on second and final reading uh 2848 d24 is being pulled from the agenda this evening uh the this ordinance has to go before the planning board 284 that is the can okay so that is being pulled wait I'm sorry 20 46 or 2848 before we get into yeah okay yeah so is it scheduled there or uh no she do not giving me a date yet so I have a question it's still on second reading I think there might be people in the audience that were here to to comment on this you want to do the public hearing I think we should I think it's only fair they've sat through 11:24 through certainly do the public hearing yeah and then next time it's up we won't do this will be it okay that's fine so this is for cannabis correct but aren't we updating the ordinates what there's some additional upd yeah so it doesn't matter for us to have public going to change yeah Mr Moon had sent a email but I just don't think it's fair we should have mentioned this earlier in the meeting so that everyone knew because they literally sat through it's 112 the problem is that if you do a public hearing for this particular ordinance this may not be the one that's going to be presented to them for final approval they got they got an opportunity under public comment non agenda items if needed because to speak in hopefully in five minutes right yeah this should not take long okay that's fine maybe we can move that up before we get to pending matters if we can go out of order because again it's 11:25 and they've been here since 6:30 well let's let's get this 2846 can we do this tree Tre 2846 d24 in Ord repealing and replacing chapter 25 section 27 of the revised General ordinance ordinances of West Orange and establishing chapter for Environmental Protection tree protection removal and replacement is there motion to introduce on second and final reading what if we want to make amendments yeah we want to make that motion I want to make a motion yeah so moved okay councilwoman celino uh yes councilwoman gber Michael yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president rer yes okay um do we do the public hearing yes okay we are now opening we should amend it first or no well depending on what your amendments are it might even well I mean anything substant invest to go correct it's form the the 75 it's a 75 to three it doesn't really anyway so if we can so I make a motion to amend the 75 to three quers of an acre yeah did you write that down earlier here it's already on the newest version of it that was it's been requested a number of times by me I didn't remember that um okay honest I thought the one that was be 40 today actually had the 34s so I was point out to me earlier this afternoon that that it said 1075 either way it's still needed the vote to be implemented honestly this makes it cleaner that it doesn't already say three4 it's been moved and seconded yes has it yeah I second for this you gotta vote for the individual ones um sorry okay councilwoman celino yeah yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Mara FD yes okay the motion carries on the amendment um councilwoman castelino has an amendment she wants to offer yes thank you council president so with this ordinance going back and forth the council at one point in time during the uh course of the past year agreed to uh having the minimal of dbh to be two uh from two and a half inches or greater to be 4 Ines so my Amendment would be changing 2 and a half inches to 4 inches on page six uh item number four uh paragraph a and I believe it appears again on should be in the definitions the definitions yeah second 14 page 14 wait can you start over again and say that so instead of instead of the the the minimum requirement of a tree only being 2 and a half inches thick okay and now our minimum is going to be four inches thick okay you know uh you know we're talking you know little two and a half inches yeah awig twig yeah landscape items so that was I second that motion okay thank you all right councilwoman castelino uh yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman scorpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay the motion carries on the amendment I have another question I'm not sure if if it should be amended but this is for Mr Kip so on page seven it says prun cut down or remove any tree so this is uh you can you can't prune I get cut down or remove any tree but a property owner can't prune their own tree without them having a qualified tree expert to to perform the duties I mean if you have one of these smaller trees and you you can't prune your own tree now I I just he needs to come up cut that's how I'm reading it maybe I'm reading it wrong but p7 item number five under Section B uh clone cut down and remove any tree unless it is performed by aifi tree expert and who shall be registered with the township of West Orange pursuant to so that means before we can prune any of our trees or I mean like you have a small tree in your own backyard I mean my husband you know plays landscaper all the time so he's not play yeah not play no he does not play about no it's it's hard work no I know so I'm just stating like you I want that move remove like we talk about restrictions just so we're talking about removing the word frun speciic correct the rest of the we are you have by state law you have to be uh if you're do a contractor is doing Fring he has to be registered by the state so we register him here in town was if you're a home home owner pruning home homeowner pruning it should be like an exemption that's should be like in the exemption part I think okay so where would you put that there's an exemption somewhere right well yeah I don't know that it necessarily needs to go and do an exemption rather than just be take out the word prune I think that would answer concerns rather than if you add in the exemption we might start working on the is this form is this substance I'd rather avoid that ble make a motion to remove the word prune yes please I second give me the plate location of that again seven number five seven number five yeah number five I make a motion to remove the word prune a second okay I wanna hold on one [Music] second okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman scar no councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay the motion carries on can can we back up before you have more that's number five right just to be clear I have other notes on this page too but if you want to go ahead just why we're there on page seven my question was cut or remove any tree older than 25 years with a dbh of 10 inches or more so my question is if you have a tree that's dead like I I I'm don't trying trying to figure that out so Mr Kip address this yeah yeah I'm confused with that basically the way it's written nobody will be able to cut down a tree that's larger than 10 inches yeah a viable tree or a nonviable tree so if it falls I mean what happens and this I think that should be uh we um this should be removed all together thank you thank you you gotta be able to cut down a viable a nonviable tree if it's over 10 inches what if I want to put in so so this is so what if he wants to put a pool in deck I I can't cut down a tree because it's 10 inches I mean that's just that should be by um you need a permit right so there are points of this that are contradictory right we do have langu in here to remove hazardous trees correct right so that could be greater than 10 inches yes um so so what your what is your recommendation I would remove that Al together because we already have restrictions of getting permit getting a you know I have to approve it seven number and then we have to replant so there's always I mean some people want sometimes when you're building a deck the tree is in the way yeah for you to build a deck or put an addition to your house or put a new driveway in so that's why addition drive you want the way in the that was my only comment was going to be that if left the way it is written right now it be what Mr K was saying be pretty much impossible to do a tree over 10 inches dbh when we have a tree replacement chart that allows like if you cut down a tree that's I 12 Ines dbh to replace it with like two or whatever yeah a lot ofs so they kind of as you say council president it sort of contradicts itself a little bit so I move that we remove I I motion that we I move that we remove line seven second this is p just so that we're still clear page seven page seven yes that same page page seven number seven number seven on that page it's it's section 4 B7 on page seven okay on that Amendment councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michel yes councilwoman scorpa no councilwoman Williams yes council president Ruther yes the motion carries on the amendment um number 11 did you have any questions there I do uh REM tree that in soil erosion or would increase yeah go ahead you ask a question so how do you determine whether or not a tree will increase dust the removal will increase dust how I determine that yes uh you would have to do a study who's going to do the study who qualified should be doing nobody here is qualified to do this so I so in order to remove a tree how am I going to identify whether or not it's going to cause the dust increase dust I'm not sure how you okay I mve that that be removed that's hard to get hard to quantify yeah think understand the rationale I don't understand that was understand yeah I I don't have any understanding for how somebody measure why that's again this oh hold on hold on the edification of the public and Town Council so this version of the ordinance the administration submitted an ordinance I think it was back in March that that ordinance failed on first reading um then at new business I believe it was that meeting or maybe it was the very the next following meeting uh the council asked me to put up the what I'll call the AR Green Ordinance that was this um then we went to a workshop before it got put up though on first reading and you asked me to make three changes to it which you did which I did and they were included in that version of the ordinance then it went up for first reading it passed on first reading um and now it was not changed just so everybody's clear it was not changed from first reading to Second reading not once um but now that we're here on second reading um there we right now have four different amendments so that's how it got there because it was help drafted by I'm still making a motion that number 11 be removed what about the soil erosion part is that significant yeah soil erosion I don't I think we should keep that I think we should but I think if there I think if there is soil erosion period that that will be determined by an expert not no not even by an expert but I'm saying there other things in here that will protect the soil erosion there other comments in here that speak to soil erosion I just we don't I mean we're we're reiterating the same thing I'm fine with removing the the would the last four words or W increase dust I think we still should do we understand what the dust is I don't understand what that means I I don't either why don't we just do amend it later we don't fully understand it there's no way to measure dust remember right recently one of the earlier the zoom meeting we had I think it was last year oh maybe that was talked about but I still don't know how we would measure the increase of do so there is a big problem with that I don't welcome recommendations on how to fix that problem then we can add it back in on future versions of it if there is some quantifiable way to decide let's have one conversation at a time please sorry no no you you were you were speaking oh you're okay remot dust yeah I'm down I'm good with that okay I REM right okay so the the the motion Madam clerk was to remove the last four words of okay and that's on page correct oh thank you well that's actually top of page eight no depending on how yours printed out true all right well that one okay right yes all right so on that Amendment councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president rord yes okay the amendment carries um go back where page six okay oh wait wait before you go back I have a question with this section if we could just stick here so we can all our heads around thank you councilwoman um so I guess where I'm having trouble with this and Mr Kip hopefully you could help help me get get there um so all of the next items and to councilwoman Williams Point remove tree if will result in soil erosion if if it would increase the amount of storm water runoff or negatively affect storm water runoff pattern so sounds like great things because you know if my neighbor removes a a tree that's gonna cause a water problem for me which is happening all which I get that's what we're trying to do my problem with all of this or my issue maybe you could help me get there is isn't that why they're getting the permit for the tree so you go out there to determine all this no or are now people have to pay for studies like this is where I'm getting lost in the process what is what is the process gonna be like I I I'll tell you with the process I go out I evaluate the tree the lot everything about the lot the tree and surrounding and see if that's going to affect it basically if it's I all trees we know all know suck up about big tree suck up about 200 gallons out of the ground every day when it's active so it's we all know it's going to creas water run up if it's a major Hill you don't want to be taken down a tree because all the soil will be going downhill and if it's a healthy tree that's the way that's what I would it's evaluated as a neighborhood basically okay okay so so now you make the recommendation that they can remove remove it yes so then why are these items in here because so I does I'm trying to say is the homeowner supposed to get a study done to determine these items are you're going to take care of that I'm going to take care of that with my evaluation because we we don't want to ordinance the residence how much you know that a study a water study is a lot okay water study would be for a a builder basically that's what this calls for that's the problem with it so and I don't mean to attack or Force credentials but you're asking to make a hydrological assessment which I'm not sure you're qualified I don't know that he's qualified I mean any for so Mr Kip is it if if it's read the way we're interpreting now if you were to determine that the tree needed to be removed it could be remove yes okay so this would not even though this is in the prohibitions Clause if you determine this tree is unstable unhealthy nonviable a hazard it would still be able to be removed what if it's not all those things but I need to remove the tree because I want to build a deck that was addressed no on the other it's not no it's not addressed that that was for if it was 10 inches or bigger now this is a different situation so if you have that so that we're clear and and this is my understanding after working on this for now two years if you want to put on a debt you want to improve your property in any way shape or form and that requires you to take down a tree you submit with Mr Kip for a permit and and he can in fact Branch you can correct me if I'm wrong he can in fact grant that permit okay even if it's a healthy treat right even if it's viable he can give you a permit so that you can improve your property that was one of the things we talked about in our Workshop right actually in multiple workshops exactly I remember that that's exactly what's going on Mr Kip is that your understanding that is my understanding okay so I'm gonna contradict that because I'm going to start back where I said I wanted to go back to no person shall be granted we're on page six at four tree removal and replacement permits no person shall be granted permission to remove more than two trees in a 24mon period I need to remove Three Trees to build my day I am now restricted and I cannot build my day because I have been told that I cannot remove more than two trees in a 24mth period speak Mr shouldn't that be viable trees I thought that we talked about it was going to be a comment I was going to make after the fact but we could address this first but what if it's what if I still need to remove two more than two viable trees to build my deck I if I have the capacity to put into a tree fund then I should not be limited to remove only two trees as long as I am replacing those trees whether it be on my own property or someone else's property into the fund I don't think I should be limited because now we're telling homeowners that if you have to remove more than two trees to build a deck extend your driveway um add a pool whatever Renovations you want to do you can't do it that's this is the beginning of this tree ordinance so is that your reading of it because if we we can clarify I understand the councilwoman has a concern we've we've addressed this concern that is a legitimate concern we're not trying to keep people from being able to improve their property it was my understanding that in the application process Mr Kip is able to uh grant them a permit to improve to take down the trees to improve their property if that is not right Mr Kip or Mr Jenaro please you know let us my understanding yes so understanding first is what this says can we clarify because I don't want to deal with understandings I want to deal with what this ordinance speaks to right here in black and white so a suggestion could be at the end of that sentence to add unless granted a permit by the township I need some remedy so that I can remove more than two trees in a 24mon period if adding on enhancing or improving my property is required for that to be I'm if we if we can grant it some kind of way I'm fine with that but I I I am I just have a major problem because you're now telling a homeowner that they cannot improve their property so that is not not what we're telling the homeowner if we need to clarify the language we can what we have all agreed on and at literally every step of the process was to not prevent homeowners from being able to um improve their property which is part of the reason why we have the tree fund you may improve your property and build your pool and now that you've taken up that space you don't have the the space to plant your trees you can somewhere them on your neighbor's property if they want to take them wherever but but I I just clarify language I'm happy to clarify that's where I was stuck this weekend because I I was like going crazy I kept em Mr J can you provide some additional verbage so that that stipulation is remedy if there is a motion that passes um so the suggestion from the legal department I suppose would be to add at the end of that sentence unless the applicant receives or unless sub person receives permission from the township why okay so so why why wouldn't we say because again we shouldn't start with a negative instead of saying no person shall be granted permission to remove why can't we say how a person is granted permission to remove so so let's just for the sake of the the context right reading it into the record 4 a no person shall be granted permission to remove more than two trees within a 24mon period no person shall cut remove or engage in activities that encroach upon the health of a tree or remove a nonviable tree with a dbh two and a half inches which is now I know I'm just reading what we have here which is now four or greater without first having been issued a tree removal and replacement permit from the township to obtain a permit the applicant must comply with the procedures set forth in these various chapters so the way I read that yeah dep in there is that if you want to if you want to do that if you want to remove these trees you need a permit yeah now I understand your con suggestion absolutely might even make it easier if the goal and correct me if I'm wrong this is not the goal if the goal is just to ensure that every tree that gets removed has a permit permit for that tree that's greater than remove sentence one and start with no person shall cut or remove or engage in activities that encroach by the he of a tree dot dot dot without having been issued a tree or replacement bur yes yes I'm fine with that I accept that I second that let's move on move on that makes sense okay thank you so for Madam clerk you got that first sent in for a I do have some comment but on that no no that in particular okay so has that been moved in properly second yes it has so now just uh councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman scorp yes councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford yes the amendment passes okay um I have a question on this pageo well can we stay on that page though so yes yes yes I'm going down to number two okay that's right okay before we get to number two if I might just make a quick comment sure it says shall remove a nonviable tree couldn't it just be any tree shouldn't shouldn't it just be shall remove in that first sentence as it now reads it says no person shall cut remover engage in activities that encroach upon a health of a tree or remove a nonviable tree just say or remove a tree yes sure I I move for the um striking of nonviable second councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay motion carries on the amendment all permits um all tree removal all permits issu pursuant to this chapter there shall be posted to the Township's website by the township Forest are two number two oh that's important though for the the permits to so I I so my concern is first of all we don't issue permits I mean we don't publicize permits on any other yeah on any on on any other per application in the municipality I I'm think this is honorous on the Departments and I believe that if somebody needs to verify a permit um that they can call they do an Oprah request we get them every single day that takes a long time many want to see what's happen so the the purpose behind that was um and Mr Kip can speak in Greater detail I'm sure the purpose behind that was so um on our Township website there is a desire to have all of the trees that are going to be removed um visually displayed or somehow displayed so that everyone in West Orange all the residents know which trees are being removed that's for a whole host of reasons and you know we're getting down into the weeds of this thing now but the the purpose was to make sure that residents in West Orange knew which trees were being taken down and win part of that is so that if they object they can then weigh in um if they're going to be affected by either soil erosion or uh storm water runoff um they they have a chance to weigh in um and I mean there were some other reasons too it's late and I don't recall all of them but I but those are the ones that I do recall it is really about transparency I would just like to say that I have visited with residents who were crying because they had no idea that the trades were coming down this has got to stay in so so the way it works now councilwoman um and Mr Kip uh this is how we're going to go and check on the trees on Lincoln Avenue Forester goes out marks the trees and you see a visual marking on the tree that this tree is is planned to be taken down if you don't drive through there if you're away on vacation if you're a snowbird and you're spending a few months in Florida and you don't see that visually you won't you won't know it could impact you uh it could impact your neighbor it could impact your entire neighborhood so folks want to be able to know and a and a big part of this too is we we do want to make some of this owner and I and know that's tough I'm I keep try to be I try to keep it straight with people we want to make some of this honorous because we are now down to what I consider a dangerously low tree canopy coverage um and so a lot of what we're trying to address in here is to reverse a significant Trend like get it to go back in the opposite direction so if there's a tree on your block that's going to be taken down it could be two blocks away for example but you're at the bottom of the hill that's right that trees at top about the flooding mitigation it's exactly about the flooding mitigation the challenge I have with this so that we understand my logic is I'm not in agreement with anybody being able to to tree removal um I am very vly opposed to someone who doesn't have any Financial liability for my property to be able to tell me based on no rational logic that I cannot take down a tree so to that particular issue though so if you have a hazardous Tree on your property doesn't well one nothing talking about a hazard let me me so so one because people object to you removing a tree doesn't mean the tree won't be removed they're just registering their opposition the Forester will take that into consideration uh when the Forester decides to issue or not issue the permit but in the case where there is a hazardous tree which is the financial impact in the case where there's a hazardous tree if that tree has to come down because it poses a hazard there's it doesn't matter who I I mean unless uh I it doesn't matter who objects that tree has to come down um the Forester will say this is a hazardous tree and we talked about that um in in the workshop as well it's a hazardous tree it has to come down and the rules are different when it comes to a hazardous tree than than not so even if someone objects doesn't matter and the replacement is different if it's a hazardous tree versus a viable tree so if it's a hazardous tree and it's based on it's no longer viable it's dead it's diseased um we are now punitively impacting residents because they have a hazardous tree how how is that impact how is that pun doesn't do they still have to replace it yes it's a one to one though if the tree is hazardous so for instance I'm just trying to give some examples of when this could occur I just bought my property tree fell down was or is about to fall it's hazardous that's not my fault I didn't cause that so I have some challenges with even having to do the one to one the replacement if the tree is Hazard if it's hazardous it's just hazardous I just don't think you should be penalized and I understand we're trying to protect our canopy but that's not protecting our canopy it's dead well it it may be I mean there's a host of different ways that that could go down but at the end of the day if you remove a hazardous tree what we're trying to do with this tree ordinance is reverse a significant slide in our tree canopy coverage and to do that we're going to have to require replacement of trees now what we what we don't want to do is be punitive to Residents who inherit a a hazardous Tree in that example or have lived on a property for 20 plus years and the tree is now diseased or dying right and it has to be removed if it has to be removed it's a big tree where it might if it's a 30-inch tree it might require eight small trees to replace it in that case because it's hazardous it would only require one right can they get them from the tree fund can they no no they can't no they don't get that from the tree fund okay um if you don't have a place on your property to replant that one tree which would be hard to imagine but it's possible then you and your property is less than three4 of an acre right then you could use the tree fund right but other than not a big expense to put a tree I mean they don't have to buy a big tree just want to mitigate the flooding issues you cannot say it's not a big expense you you cannot spend someone else what's a big expense to take down a tree it is a big expense to take down a tree and now you're saying that I have to take down the Hazardous tree because I still have to pay to take it down yes that is the resp responsibility of a property owner just have to take care of I understand that but you were said you were suggesting when you're saying that the tree is hbous that I cause the damage there may be that is a suggestion if you're telling me that I've got to replace it you are suggest I've already got a pay it's not about who caused the damage it's just that if the tree is there and now it's got to come down you got to put another one up but but what happens and I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into the conversation because I think of these things because I was around a superstorm sanding a lot of trees came down all over town it wasn't anyone's fault it was a natural disaster um you know you're a person who just suffered from you know being out of work or whatever the case may be and and and now you're burdened with with pay for a couple trees and I get what you're saying the problem is the problem the biggest problem is are for the people who we're trying to protect and and make it balanced for the people who are going to pay attention to this ordinance and and do the right thing the the reason why we're having these issues are for the people who are gonna say not pay attention to this and they're going to go down and cut whatever they want and you know even a couple weeks ago uh someone down multiple trees and that was just devastating so um you're going to have people that aren't going to adhere to this because they think it's too stringent and not even touch it so like a lot of this is going to be not just changing this to get a right but also the education of of of being bringing this to people's attention that we are in very bad shape with our canopy and uh canopy and we need to address it but at the same time we have to make it Balan for the resident so I could see where you're saying and I like that idea with one one uh and that could be a compromise you replace one for the Hazardous as opposed to multiple that's how it is in there I don't I want to remove if it's hazardous if it is hazardous I don't think the homeowner should have to double down if it was diseased if it was hazardous and it has to be removed how much how much is it Tre these things all right so we disagree on that and you're probably going to vote that way I'm going to vot a different way I think I think approximately depending on what size you get say two the smallest one that they can put in two to two and a half inch tree is uh about depending on what try type of tree it is maybe $400 okay $400 oh $40000 that's to plant the tree not to buy the tree to plant the tree guarantee it for a year yeah I I cannot cannot I've already to buye to buy is 195 buy them for 195 I um you can put in yourself I think so let's just so that we're clear I understand your position you're welcome to have it hold on a second you're you're welcome to have that position I understand um and I recognize we have a diverse Community economically yeah what what is important for us to understand with regard to replacing in general the flooding issues that we have throughout this town have been exacerbated by cutting down uh ton of trees but we're not talking about and those are people that abused the system I just want to deal with I just want to deal with when it's diseased or hazardous if you're cutting a Bible tree down I'm totally supportive that you've got to replace it but if it's a hazardous tree you you're already and and again you're already having to Bear the expense retriev not I understand I understand your position I hold a different position um I think it's important that we we've already made an accommodation for hazardous trees you only have to replace one instead of going by the dbh the tree chart and H having to replace multiple for one tree being cut down so um I I think we've made an accommodation in that regard it is critical IAL global warming is real we had a 87 degree day in in April we're getting storm after storm that are they claim to be 100e storms and and for that point councilman here's her point is that you know I you know I'm living paycheck to paycheck and two trees come down in my backyard because of a storm now I got to pay $800 to plant two trees plus you know obviously they got to get insurance will cover probably the tree removal but not to replace the trees insurance doesn't so again in I'm experiencing this yeah yeah we have insurance and yeah it was a state on tree but I'mma wait oh you have deductible too yeah and I have a deductible that's $1,000 so I'm gonna spend $800 to replace two trees whatever damage my deductible I gotta pay to remove the tree this is just honorous on a homeowner especially if it's hazardous I I'll second I'll second your motion only if it's hazardous only if it's Hazard I'll second that motion know yeah I just don't I don't want so to be clear the motion is to remove the one to one tree rep placement for hazardous only Hazard only haard so the the motion on the table was motioned by councilwoman Williams seconded by councilwoman celino was to remove the onetoone uh requirement uh for replacing a hazardous tree hazardous just so we're clear um and you can correct either one of you can correct me if I'm wrong um when you replace a hazardous tree there's no stipulation that it has to be of a certain size no the one to one aspect seems to indicate that it's going to be whatever the size removed was theant but if you're just if that's not what is then I can clarify that language as well on a second yeah I don't go down to a small you can put a two and a half two you put a one in I don't want a damaged hazardous tree to financially impact a homeowner they already it already has exactly so I don't want the replacement obligation it's not just $100 it's not it could be it could be and you it yourself landscaper has to but that's that's what's on the motion on I'm scking properly mov in motion a second one conversation one please please the motion let's just vote and get on okay councilwoman on the amendment councilwoman celino uh no no no yes for the amendment I'm sorry councilwoman gabber Michael no councilwoman Scarpa no councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford no okay the motion fails okay so then one: one is there some clarification on what one: one means we can say one to one and replace with I leave that up to the coun if there is no I leave that up to the council in terms of the policy behind it whether you want there to be a minimum dbh or no minimum at all no minimum because then you could go small yes I think as it's written now it's all with the permission of the township forested regardless I think as it's written Now cover that okay we're covered let's move on future issues regarding it we can always go back here and make quick yeah I'm with that and and is someone gonna have to come back when a tree is removed is someone gonna have to come back and certify that you planted them and how long are you gonna have to plan it think you I have to check on that when they plan it I think it's in the next six months let me just double check I think it is six months and what happens if they don't have the money to plan it they're G to get a penalty a fine what's gonna happen I I don't have any money I I can pay my taxes or or I or I can pay a sewer fee I can buy food thetically under this ordinance if they did not place it on a one toone basis it would constitute the ordinance may be subject to the Penalty provision which is $2,000 yeah for each offense yeah that part in addition to the required mitigation for each tree illegal so at the end of the day they would have to replace the tree and they would have to pay but and they already had don't had a money to replace the tree and now we're going to make them well once it got to that point if they were really in financial hardship system would sort of take over there and say yeah they have Avenues to kind of get around that and they'd work with the prosecutor whoever that was the time whether it's whoever okay okay let's move on should be up here um we were on page seven I know we went back a little bit no we were still on six so I have I want to comment on the notification because I do believe like okay so here's here's my thoughts with that so I understand the need for it because of folks taking down trees and having numerous phone calls of dealing with people who've been on the other side of you know um things done on neighbors properties removals but at the same token I'm a little nervous with having this posted on a website that you know I'm leaving my house I'm having a tree taken down in the backyard and boom you know I got the person from down the street yelling at me you know you know because we we know today's world like people just don't know boundaries they don't have any boundaries anymore and so I don't want to have that kind of unsafe situation occur for someone so how do we handle that like I the police comes in if there's a problem with the neighbor okay and somebody punches somebody you know could take um again we just got to be smart we just have to be smart so I understand the need for it but I just would like to see it done in a way where you know like you protect some people's privacy I don't I don't I don't I don't necessarily feel that if I'm taking a tree down it's got to be blasted all over a we yeah I think that's Overkill I just I think the people are worried that they want to look at the Town holistically they want to look at their neighborhood and their block holistically because of the flooding and they want to get a sense of if 22 trees are coming down on their block because M Lawrence is going to have some flooding issues over there well when I get work done and I have to put the yellow permit in my window that I'm having work done in my house maybe I have to put a green permit in my window I don't know something that's less invasive can I say something so we never mind it's okay yeah so so I understand your concern your concern is regarding U an overzealous person coming to confront a homeowner about taking down a tree yes that's my concern yeah sorry I remember go ahead so my issue is that we're sitting here talking about what if what if what if this is not going to be a perfect ordinance that's right I think that it's important that we do vote on an ordinance tonight because our tree canopy and I think that learn through trial and error and if something isn't working then we can all revisit this come back and make amendments like we've been making amendments the campus ordinance and other ordinances you know but to sit here for two three hours because this is how long it's going to take to go through this when it's already midnight and making I I either we should table this okay so if no one wants to table it okay and have a meeting this week and do a zoom no no no then let's vote on this see what happens and then we can always make amend based on you know again through trial and error through through real life experience this is our process this I I realize it's late but this is important this is important because what has happened with the tree ordinance and this came from commentary when the tree ordinance was amended two years ago that we really need to get things right and sometimes as we are trying to get things right we have to go back through and make sure they make sense I understand but how do we get it right right when it's already midnight and there has to be a balance in these things would like to make a motion to just pass it and we could always amend anything that's problematic hold on hold on hold on a second before we go to so you have an issue with an overzealous individual confronting someone there is a mechanism already in place if someone is overzealous over any issue and confront someone now if we found through practice to council Michael's point that we were getting an inordinate number of complaints for residents being harassed because they're taking down trees then we would obviously make some adjustments I don't think that that's going to be the case um but I'm happy to revisit it if if it is if if someone comes to your house right now because they don't like whatever which is still possible right or they show up at a cannabis company because they located you know two doors down from them and they want to harass someone there's 's already a mechanism in place to address that but we're not posst I mean but you're that's not the same this is privacy this is this is this is now you're taking information where I have applied for a permit and putting it on a public site for public consumption when there is no other permit application that we post publicly if you want every permit is a public record that is exactly what I'm saying so if you really want get it if you want it yes but no different from and this is the only thing I can think of at midnight it's no different from if you are a tenant and your house is for rent the tenant may say you know what you can do whatever you want on the outside of the building just don't show How I Live because this is my home I think it's just as invasive if it's your home and you make the decision that I want to show every room in my house that's my decision but now you're taking the decision away from me and you're just putting public information out there what we have seen in West Orange is that we have some very zealous environmentalists and we also know that without even posting anything on a website that we have very zealous environmentalists who do go to other people's homes and complain and call so I'm not aware of that I'm not aware of that well I I am I think I go to people frying because people ever called you telling you to cease and decease and go tell somebody to stop cutting down trees um in your tenure because I've certainly gotten that phone call as an elected official about cutting down trees actually absolutely yeah about people cutting trees down so now we putting it on have you have they been harassing have folks been going to a neighbor house and harassing them because they're cutting down a tree heard of I don't remember getting PS like that I I'm I distinctly remember councilman kovia P me one time on a weekend where you know somebody's cutting trees down I mean I've called Lenny on you know they cleared up a lot near me hey what's going on here but I'm not harassing the there's no harass guy that's cutting down the tree but it's also all right so let's just offer your motion and let's let's move forward so we can continue so all well you brought it back up that we don't do the public notice where are we now P this this would be a motion to I'll yeah she's yeah so so yeah I'm for putting the permit in the window you can make it a different color so people know it's it's it tree and and T yeah make it green I'm all for that process so people know people can't run around the neighborhood won't look at from for green one at a time okay I I okay well well listen I W i' one privac I I I value my privacy I know other people value their privacy um I don't know if they again I mean if somebody wants to know about a permit like I I hear what the need is so people know that it may affect their property but I I hope our Forester is going to have the mechanism in place that if it impacts somebody's property in such a way they're not going to get the permit to begin with so I'm hoping that happens needless to say I recommend that we take out this um this this list on the website where is that it's on page six section 4 A2 I'm gonna second that motion okay I believe it's vital that people know what's going on in neighborhoods to mitigate the flooding so I'm not for that so so we're we're striking for the record all tree removal and replacement per including emergency tree removal permits shall be accessible to the public subject to the confidentiality provisions of Daniel's law or any other similar law all permits issued pursuant to this chapter shall be posted to the Township's website by the township Forester yeah so they're redacted no I would assume that's what that meant but uh yeah well IL legal you can't redact on o unless it's statutorily permitted so for for example there's a Supreme Court Cas we were just talking about that deals with dog licenses so you can overa IDE you can open any dog license ever issue inquest I'm not allowed to redact your address of your over the other personal identifiers such as like your email address that would be something that I could redact that would be something that would be redacted number or their telephone number potentially but telephone numbers in that case they discussed it specifically they discussed they didn't say one way or the other because it wasn't a direct issue in that case but they did say like it's difficult to determine whether it's a work telephone number or a personal telephone number so my recommendation would be out of abundance of caution because most often than not especially with like dog licenses they're going to put their home phone number or their cell phone number on it would be to Reda um but we can do that on the website if someone opras if someone wanted to Oprah the permit they they're going to get whatever Oprah says they're entitled to get from that permit but what we choose to put on the website is does not have to be the same exact thing that we provide in Oprah we don't have to put phone numbers we don't may we don't do the permit maybe we just put the address and say this address is having two or three or five or however many trees removed then call it a that's not your business but but that's the problem I rather say is the one that's going to determine whether or not I can do that too much and if the Forester is the one who is assessing that isn't it approved permits though like approved yes pre removal it's not every permit that's going up every tree that is all per no yeah all permit issu he's G be very busy you want to be able to look at this at a glance I tried to to get information from engineering and it took a long time and it was difficult to get and if there's a big going on right away I'm still not supportive I hear you councilwoman Scara I think it's been offered a motion we're clear what is being offered is to strike uh 4 A2 correct um I think councilwoman Williams offered the motion but to be clear Cel offer correct yeah and and just to be clear it's because I don't want people's addresses on there if you think of a different way to make this list where it's it just shows the street and people no to put every we can have some further conversation we're not even at a point where we can put it on the website yet but uh I I totally understand I vote for the amendment yes okay councilwoman gber Michael Yes Council woman's no C do you know what the amendment is she's voting to strike to to strike to take this out to take out have your personal address on there I don't think the personal information I don't think that the whole permit should be on there I don't think I have I don't have a problem with the address and how many trees so people know thep yep as number two reads right now it says that the permits shall be accessible to the B I don't I think it should be via Oprah I don't think the entire document should be on there we don't do it with other permits let's be uniform and do it for every single permit or not that it could be too late the trees could already be coming down if that's the case it takes a long time your V we're in the middle of a vote what's your vote I agree with you that we shouldn't put the permit on there Madam so her vote is yes thank you councilwoman Scarpa no councilwoman Williams yes council president and this is to strike all permits issued pursuant to this chapter will be posted out posted on but you're keeping the first part no no the whole thing strike the whole thing because it is accessible to the public via Oprah it is but that right that's why it's not even NE yes okay you don't need number two correct I stand by my vote okay thank remove number two the residents will still be able to access whatever they could get under o regard correct thank you correct council president R so it passes so it did carry yes y all right what else do we have in are we still in we're still in section four um we were page six or so and just excuse me counc just Mr Kip because it doesn't need to be the ordinance but if the per could be green colors so the neighbors see a green permit in the window the residents don't get the permits the town the treat well if I have if I'm doing electrical work in my house that permit has to be seen in the window like the constru I'm not not construction has understand the yellow I put right now we don't we don't right now we don't they get a permit they don't they get a usually us the tree contactor gets so he doesn't obviously put it in the window of find that that going in a window if you want to do that for a process that's number three yes because most people don't even put um their construction permits in the window supposed to I'm not saying that that's not the rules I'm just saying most people don't yeah I'm fine with put them putting it in the window compromise that's already in there that's just make it make it green make it green all right I prefer this green yeah oh my gosh Come on 1230 12:20 um I have a few comments we have yours so certainly yes can we go to 15 because I have a problem with 15 page 15 page remove trees where will impair remove trees well well suitable habitats and migratory zones I we I've already stated this that we don't have anyone qualified to identify migratory zones this is and who and who is going to do it who was qualified to do it um I think Mr Kip answered that question and he said he didn't know at the last meeting well I wasn't at the last meeting um I will tell you um so here's my reading of 15 well I mean I'm I'm I'm I think should be there yeah I so we already have in town multiple um parts of town have already been designated whether Wetlands or whatever so we already know where some of those are there's some language in in here that speaks to those um those kind of spaces earlier in the in the ordinance um we if you know so it is I think it's important um you know a byproduct of uh rebuilding our canopy is the wildlife that lives there that calls it home um so that's we we want to be sensitive to you know how we when we take down these trees we affect that Wildlife that's really what that is is getting at but who's going to determine it well many of them are already determined so I mean we just had uh essis County Country Club uh before the planning board they want to put uh halfway house which was approved um and it is adjacent to Wetlands uh West desic Highlands is um a part of their application involves wetlands I mean we we have some parts of town that are already designated that way um Mr Jenaro c g Michael brought up the West S6 Highlands earlier today and potential issues regarding that I just want to be perfectly clear as far as I understand everything um and I can double check with Mr Tran as well so west6 Highlands is subject to a settlement agreement so to the extent that there are any questions regarding in particular the West T and stuff happy to have Mr TR come in at the next meeting do an executive session so he can discuss but there is a settlement agreement with regard to this matter so I believe tree removal is discussing I haven't read through personally the West SES Island settlement agreement but I believe it's discussed in in I believe that it would control but I but Mr Ste ordinance is mentioned but the tree ordinance is not in that in the settlement agreement for West essic I yeah I've read it the steep slope ordinance is mentioned but the tree ordinance is not not yeah I've read it too it's not mentioned okay um again to the extent that they are mentioned because that was my understanding of it um strank's happy to come in do an executive session regarding it discuss any issues about the settlement and we can go into more detail about it there just thank you appreciate that fortunately there is something in the settlement about it um so is that what we're gonna do in ex the session next no no let's just finish can we focus let's just question next meeting instead of doing it the next meeting could we do like a zoom or does it have to be in person exective session has let's address what we're going to do the next meeting in new business can we just finish this tree ordinance at 12:30 okay yeah let's um well is there motion is there a motion I I made a motion that we remove 15 because I don't know who's gonna was it second no not yet well I'm just trying to understand it like I understand what councilwoman's saying and I understand what you're you're saying but shouldn't there be a map or a zone or something officially done like so so some spaces are so that there there are some spaces that are already on the map as wetlands in particular there's some others I'm not a environmentalist like that so I don't know all the language what I think her uh councilwoman Williams issue is who gets to determine whether or not it's a suitable habitat I don't think you need a science degree to determine that uh or a migratory zone now that you may need to understand how how birds in particular because we don't have any other land animals that are migrating um how birds migrate that might require some understanding of migratory patterns that's above my pay grade I do understand that birds fly south for the winter I mean that's enough I just think because it it's not clear who can determine who you would call at this particular point in this game that could if you would if you want to remove migratory zones I I might be willing to support that I'm suitable habitats I don't think requires a science degree and I think the Forester has an science degree as a matter of fact uh and it's qualified to but every tree is a suitable habitat for a bird well well well no this is about this is only endangered or threatened species and that is I would like to take out the migratory zones Brown can we hear him okay brown bat is a is an endangered species the brown bat has habitats and trees which we all know that so we have brown bats is what you're saying yes we do here in West or we have nice saw n but you but again you're going out to give the permit and then wait me finish the migratory bir they have a the D has a zone for these things ah there we go that's what I want to try so so do you have that on a map you could I could pull it up this are you comfortable making the assessment that this tree is needed or not needed for a migratory bird I think that's the simple question yeah as a forest comfortable doing that like you're comfortable judging erosion are you comfortable judging whether that will judge it because I'll I'll have the map good enough I'm going to so let's move on okay so well do you still you entitled if you want to strike something I I would like to strike the migratory zones because I I just I just I just just the words migratory Zone that that is her motion will there be a second I don't understand enough to to go out which is my point I don't need I don't need he doesn't he's the far does yeah so he's comfortable with making determination and giving a permit but so again a councilwoman's point and again I know you don't want to do this because it's it's midnight but we're never gonna get this ever done I'm just letting you know I can another 15 more minutes and I have to go because I'm in pain and then you could get us on the she should call in but all right so that motion failed we didn't get a second next um cut down and remove trees in a landscaped buffer area what does that mean between two properties landscape buffer zone is not uh defined in our ordinance currently and the way it's written I didn't see it in there Ste NE there plenty it's not defined in there that's why I had a little issue with it um my issue is this is my issue say a landscape buffer zone is around the entire property that means but it doesn't say how wide whatever yeah could be any that means you can't take down any trees in that zone at all I think whether they're viable or nonviable that's my problem with that so I saw your note too Mr Kip I do appreciate that um what is your recommendation strike it all together stri so I make a motion to strike itk you that's number 17 17 good okay is there a second already second it thank you okay uh councilwoman Celina yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president R yes the motion carries on the amendment are you going to go through his or do you want because I would rather he go through his if that's okay well I have a few more but okay no you can do yours finish yours um I had questions about preserve 50% of the TRU this is on page nine yeah that's his too oh well okay so what's yours and then I'll tell you um what I would like to do is uh 50% of the uh canopy is that the one you're talking about yes yes um I want to change it to I want to change it for it was in the ordinance 50 50% of the trees I'll give you the example two1 Ridgewood two D1 Ridgewood Ridge Road has a bunch of small trees in it and Monster trees some monster trees very lightly so if you took down all the monster trees and left this little section of that would survive that would be 50% of the tree it should be 50% of the canopy yeah not 50% of the tree motion us to substitute can trees sub candy for tree okay and and I I make that motion I second it except for and 70% on any undeveloped lot yes so my challenge with the 70% on any undeveloped lot is again if you're using 2-10 as an example Ridge Road it's a tremendously um tree lot but we don't know the viability of those trees so a lot of those are Fallen trees so when we say 70% of any undeveloped lot and then we've heard examples today where you know people are saying sometimes fallen or is it do you say fallen or fall what's the proper um so if they're not if they're not if they're dead diseased on the ground 70% of well that's not that would be included in the canopy yeah that wouldn't be included that that's not be includ that's not included okay dead dying trees on the ground not gonna be glued dying trees are not gonna be included can um Street trees aren't going to be included in canopy coverage because they're outside their building scope but is 70% on any on develop I think that was high know I I I like the 70% but you know as we gotta make compromises well I like 70 70 I like be like at 70 a motion was made was properly seconded clear the motion is to only change to add the word canopy after change trees to tree and add the word canopy no no no to the trees get rid of the canopy and substitute can I think tree canopy ised defined term it's the only reason why I said get rid of the S and you're the lawyer go with that okay um and so and so this is prohibitive if I have a lot um that has that that is undeveloped I can only take down 70% of the tree canopy you can take down 30% of the canopy you have to preserve 70 do I have the option to buy into if I want to develop the property do I have the option to buy into the tree fund if I want to remove More than 70% if you go to develop the lot you're gonna have if you go to develop the lot and you have to take down more than that that is going to be something that will go through the Forester and the development will go through normal I'll pay in okay yeah okay is there a motion on ph yes there is great uh councilwoman celino yes councilwoman G councilwoman SC yes councilwoman Williams yes council president rer yes motion carries on the amendment my next change request is on number 10 page 10 number seven um there is no way the Forester can be present for the removal of every tree um in Western orange uh that's on that should be on construction sites is that only on construction sites yes it should be I don't know if it is sorry coun Williams which page page 10 number seven number seven is a parking lot is a par parking lot because now we do it I do I'm on the how did that happen so that's be number eight then number seven so number seven on page 10 refers only to development applications cor yeah devel say devel well there are two sevens though there's second seven also and then and then um all parking lot owners shall maintain trees and compliance with Township um code and shall create 50% shade in the parking lots within five years that's just um we've already had um discussion with several planners several developers that when you certainly a concrete Island we do want some trees but to Mand mandate the 50% shade in the parking lots is just not a viable solution some of these black tops that would mean a cost to them where they would have to go in and break up the blacktop to plant these trees and the the viability of these trees in this parking lot um is very difficult based on some of the developers that we've had and the applications that come through I make because on this one I know what they're this is for construct new construction right and that's that's section in okay so that has and it should I recommended not in five years 50% I meant I Me 2 five years because five years the trees is not gonna get that grow yeah yeah it won't grow that much can we can we strike that in total in total this is new this is new new developments new development this is not existing not existing okay I'm fine I'm sorry so but your do 25 years no but is that it won so for example Target well they're already new development you know all right so I make Mr Kip's uh recommendation that's my motion 25 years well F first let's be clear I think I understand it's the second number seven which should be changed to number eight can we make a double motion to that's number eight as double motion second it vote well I just we're adding we're changing the five years to 25 years use we're changing the number from seven to eight I just want to wrap my head around so well for example so development what how you gonna get them years later they haven't you need we need we need parking spots I mean yeah 50% shade parking lot so so you could do that at Target right now not saying you could do it at no problem the problem is the island trees and trees in there and they could grow but again you would have to eliminate a lot of parking spots not necessar would you put them in the island you're putting the trees in the islands you're making the islands not any bigger you're just putting trees in the island so they cover that wasn't the discussion for instance on the planning board specifically at Target there was a very strong push for them to put tree islands in the existing park because they had 100 100 extra spots that require and they are which which I'm I support I support that because when you travel to other targets and all over the place they do have that model so I think that's great I want that in the parking lots but I'm just I guess I'm just trying to imagine have toce I wanted like to get 50% coverage that's a lot of par how much like how many aisles not it's not taking the parking spaces away so the footprint of the tree is not like covering the you don't have to cover up the parking spot to have the tree which has a canopy yeah so the purpose is to plant trees that will provide shade over the parking spot yeah no I get that but the island you still have to make the island sure and and some that's a normal we do we make you go down to sh mall they got all islands in the middle no I know but I I haven't been to any mall where there's been 50% of the parking lot covered in shape m is Short Hill Mall does Short Hills Mall does the mall at Short Hill yeah I think we should leave it well so I do they counting the parking garages and well they don't so they they have trees in the parking garages they hey if it looks like Short Hill small I'm good if that's what this made that's what it's gonna take you got to put more trees in there so we clear on the properly offered amend uh amend motion to amend it from 5 to 25 and from 7 that section 4 e now it's turning from s to 8 correct okay call for the vote oh councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scara councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford yes the motion carries on the amendment I have one on this page so you're done please I I have the next page so if you have something on this page go at the bottom walk me through on uh number one tree removal and replacement application four uh sentences of uh if the tree placement is to be done on site a survey not more than one year old must be attached to application to show the exact location most people don't have where are you reading I'm sorry um on page 10 the fourth line up from the bottom yeah your survey cost $900 no I would if have a survey it's your changing it says no more than one year old can we strike that I wanted to strike that okay make a motion I move that we strike not more than one year old for the survey second thank you because that's that's $900 expense to okay to get a new survey okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman councilwoman Williams yes council president retherford yes the motion carries on the amendment and I only have one other question regarding the survey um some homeowners don't even get a survey or receive the copy of the survey does the township have a copy of the survey I can answer that question yeah goad we have a a system okay that's we have we can go it's proam and we can go on and I can put their property yeah okay I basically yes I just wanted I wanted to clarify that if a homeowner it's by that's fine but I just don't want even if the homeowner doesn't have a copy of the survey for them to have to go out they usually they're usually 10 years old because if you go to refinance or for a mortgage the bank requires you that it has to be within 10 years old but I do have a copy I I can go on any property in West Orange and pull up the the photo of their property that's great would their all the utilities marked out some of the trees are marked out oh wow either house driveway wow their sidewalk everything so when we get an Oprah request I can send it up to you I could do that you better never knew that makes your life easy page 14 uh from Mr Kip's email number 11 page page 11 three on 11 okay so page 11 we can go there first tree removal neighbor notification form must be submitted to the township but the tree removal and replacement application the form shall be submitted in accordance here with to all neighboring property owners who own the surrounding Lots or as Define here in so obviously I'm going to have a problem with this because how do I know who is the homeowner I may not even know who my next door neighbors are and so now you're making me required to send it to the homeowner I don't know if that's the homeowner or a tenant it may be a two or three family house I don't know each of the homeowners each of the tenants the Township get that advice not that not advice get that information weigh on yes we can get that okay there we go tax record yeah so I I wasn't I had issue with this a little bit but again with this situation arising in the township recently um I am uh yeah I I think they have to notify the neighbors well the immediate n like I know when you put an addition you go 200 feet I don't that just makes it too complicated this yeah that's too complicated you go make boock around their height yeah yes and that's it because with all the runoff issues um so then I need some type of mechanism in here because basically what this is saying is that the form should be submitted in a here with to all neighboring property owners who own the surrounding Lots right is if if the town is going to provide me that information then make the town that the town's responsibility because right now it doesn't say where I'm going to get that information and that's not your fault it it's just not clear what that process is going to be you wanna we can we can put that in there so can we add um that that information will be supplied by the municipality yes yeah but it can't be on an automatic basis they have to request it but it's the tree removal notification form is automatic so if the if if you're going to be required to submit a neighbor notification form then somebody should be required to give me my neighbor's contact information because I don't I don't I mean seriously I know who my neighbors are but I don't know their name yeah yeah so how am I going to get something in the mail to them so on I mean right there go right on the website you get the information I'm sorry go on the website on what website west.org we we have to notify like with with you know planning board and Zoning Board now if you pay your if you sewer fee and all that taxes online all the property owners are there you can put in any address and you just on our town website that's how I find out the neighbors me too that's exactly what I do okay okay if I don't know the name of the person next door I go on the town website P out she give you she's gonna join by Zoom just so I can vote on this yeah yeah yeah she's in sorry Sor a long day and I haven't proceed tomorrow sorry yes do better yeah toe and do you have anything else on that page uh seven days subject right okay so and this Mr Kip question so with the notifications the the one thing I'm concerned with is how are you going to keep track of all of this and um so for example the way I'm reading number four on page 11 I put in for a permit and it may not be till 30 days before I get an approval well I had a little issue um because in the denial they have 45 days to oh 45 days Al together that was the issue that was the issue I had on that section that's 14 because it's 30 days yeah I have that tag too yeah it's 30 days I have to issue permit buy but in the denial thing they have a 4 five days so it doesn't add up yeah so that we'll get to that one and that and because again like you want to take a tree down and if you have a contractor come and try to coordinate all that like yes it has to be the same yeah so would you recommend 30 30 30 30 30 in both places so I offer the motion this is in section seven appeal of denial true tree removal and replacement uh that on the third line we switch from 45 to 30 days okay but just one question council president before we we I could sell you on anything lower um how long is it taking now to get a tree permit done like you know uh well right now uh I get to very quickly uh it would take if I say maybe not even a week so now it's taking me 30 days no no you just have two I have up to 30 days I can do it they have up to 30 days to appeal just give me a Grace period like a just just in case I'm out on vacation for two weeks yeah I don't get to the 10 can you make it three weeks that's we're telling it's always been three it's always been 30 days in the tree permit now it has okay always has been that it always been 30 days yeah the the denial the uh appeal thing should be the same so they have they're they they're coinciding each other got it be 30 days F should be 30 so okay if I may the way that it's written right now now they don't run and I don't know if this is your point Walt correct me if I'm wrong they don't run concurrent so the way that it works now as it's written in here is that when the N when the tree neighbor notification form goes out it goes out with the application the neighbors get notified and the neighbors will have seven days to they own the surrounding lots to object and writing to the township Forester Forester Kip will then have 21 days to review the application and determine whether or not to issue the permit they will then they meaning the way that it's written now they meaning the objector either the objector or if he denies the permit than the additional 30 days thereafter so just keep in mind that the time does not run concurrent yeah they need extra time yeah executive executive executive thank you that's only if he denies the permit it's only if he it's only if somebody appeals the other whatever the decision right yeah oh so somebody can only have 60 days he'll have 30 days to make the decision and then they'll have 30 days to appeal well see that's I guess my problem because well it's up to 30 days usually they get it within four or five days no I know per appeals your decision that does not own the property they have up to 30 days to appeal they have up to 30 days so now now it's just going to increase it from four if I'm planning to do a deck project or a fencing project it's going to take I have to tell my contract well contractor I may not be able to book you for 60 days yes if I have to remove two trees you may and then you may because of the appeal process you got that I know this is tedious right now don't think these things we're GNA get right now I have up to 30 days to do the permit yeah I don't have to issue it in five days I do but I don't have to I can take 30 days to issue the permiss but if you turn if you if you approve it it's approved if it's approved like in three days well then the clock starts with the the appeal process correct and you to wait seven days to see if anybody objects yeah meanwhile I've gotten meanwhile I've got an a permit approval to take down a couple trees and I call my contractor and he puts me on the schedule and it's done and somebody comes the day of an object I don't think there should be a 30-day uh appeal process I think that's way too long I do as I said it's a compromise so you you want it less than to yeah I would say seven days I'll even give it 10 days change so I just want to make sure everybody's clear on how it works now so you get when the application goes out they'll have seven days to the they meaning the neighboring Property Owners we'll have seven days to write a letter to Wal yeah so Walt shouldn't be issuing the permit before those seven days theoretically so you can see if anybody objects right if nobody objects you can issue the permit on day eight and then the clock will start for the appeal time if somebody objects he had it build the ordinance builds in time for him to review the objections and perhaps get the applicant's um position on the matter and I'll have 20 days 21 days thereafter to make his determination whatever his determination is then you go to section 7 with regards to the appeal and the appeal is can be taken by as it's written now either one of the surrounding lot owners or by the applicant if he is denied whoever appeals is responsible for all costs and fees associated with the appeal that includes attorney's fees time if there's special meeting for the planning board so it's built in there that hopefully there aren't too many of these but obviously in the cases where the tree either should or should not come down according to the applicant then they'll be passion enough and they'll make their case to the plan so but going back to your point councilwoman that's a policy decision on what you guys want to do with regard to how I think that's fine I think it's fine well well I know you think it's fine until you and again the reason for this is I get where you guys are coming from and and protecting but the problem is we have people that will read this and just go you know Edward Scissor Hands On Us uh on the roome and and not follow any of this because it's it's it's too encumbersome so that that's why I'm just trying to find that balance to make it more if people are going to violate it they're going to violate it there's nothing people if they have it in their mind that if the law is a law and I don't care what the law is there's nothing we can do about that except enforce the law if they violate yeah but I don't want to encourage people to violate we're hopefully encouraging people to comply yeah me too yeah this is thoughtful um so your other point on 14 though was who is allowed to appeal yeah I just wanted to get that clarified in that section yeah okay so the adjacent home the people that have been notified can appeal and who else and the homeowner is that what it I'm just yeah I understand that there's a desire for anyone to be able to appeal I am certainly not um in favor of that um but I do understand the like if you are directly so when yeah when I read that top of the hill yeah if you are directly impacted yeah by the removal you should be able to appeal if you live across town and you just don't like you want to keep the tree you shouldn't be able to appeal yeah um that's why I wanted to Define that's why I saying I def find it so as it's written now it's only those who own the surrounding Lots who were required to be sent the neighbor notification form job the right to appeal the decision of Forester um that and obviously the that's that's a given um if they're denied so that's as it's written now the surrounding lots are defined as those what will call the overl square around your house for the sake of time I'm willing to just let that go and not expand the ability to appeal beyond that the only my only question would be how you want I about how you want to word it but it's gonna be difficult for me to say the if the person at the top of that was doing it well now only the T the the folks that are notified right that's how that I I'm fine with that we can revisit that down the road should we need to are you fine with that Mr K yeah so it'll it'll remain as it is only those that are notified and the applicant okay anything else because I think that was your entire list um I have number two on page 12 number two on page 12 tree can't be replaced on the lot or an adjacent lot the applicant um shall have the burden of demonstrating how such replacement on their lot is not feasible if the owner applicant cannot replace trees on the site that which they were removed the owner applicant shall replant the trees on the immediate adjacent properties thank you 8 a H2 section tree replacement two a two on the bottom but okay all right so my my challenge is if the owner applicant cannot replace the tree on the site that where it was removed the owner applicant shall replant the tree on the immediate adjacent properties you can't tell me I got to plant a tree on my house cuz my neighbor took it down like that needs to come out they play into the fund and they goes whatever the farest it dictates that it goes but you can't tell me it's got to go on my neighbor's J live what if the neighbor doesn't even want it yeah yeah I have some thing I think I believe I have some say in that please do uh I would ask the neighbor if he wants a tree in his backyard or whatever and then I planed where it's going to have to go other I would ask the neighbors if they want to trees I understand that but right now it says that it has to go so move it to May so may may okay so is there a motion so moved okay so their motion is to change e A2 uh the second sentence from sh let's finish this one offer an additional is is May replant retries on the immediate adjacent Properties or where appropriate as determined by the foreston as the about the forest is that the full motion yes that's full motion okay the council president uh councilwoman Gerber Michael is on the line and can you hear us yes I can okay she's on welcome back thanks so the motion that's on the floor now councilwoman is uh section 882 we are changing in the second sentence uh the word shall to the to May and adding and so it should read uh if the amendment passes the owner applicant May replant the trees on the immediate adjacent Properties or necessary by the for or as deemed suitable as determined by the Forester or a I'm fine with that yeah you can doctor it up Mr jengar location seem yeah okay I'm gonna call for the vote councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michel yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford yes okay the amendment carries and the only other question I had was on table a now that we've changed the 2.5 to six to four yeah oh I said it before 14 yeah I said it when we did the Chang that's four we did already we did already okay wherever just so we're clear the motion that was made earlier that changed the definition of a tree from two and a half inches to four inches my understanding was that will be changed throughout the ordinance yes correct thank you okay and then the only other questions I had was um violations and penalties what page 15 um okay fine of $2,000 for each offense is there a possibility that we could reduce that f for the first offense F not to exceed so who determines the offense the and then well so what will happen is a summons if somebody violates a provision of the ordinance they'll get a summons presumably from wal or somebody working for Walt um and then they'll have to go to municipal court and they'll meet with the prosecutor whether it's me or whoever it is at the time and they discuss their penalty and sentencing now the ordinance allows for up to a $2,000 fine for each fence and the mitigation of the tree so for example if you remove a tree that is um let's say make it easy 4 in dbh and you remove it without a permit W would issue you a summon you would then go to municipal court and you would be liable for a fine of up to $2,000 if that's what the because typically how they how this works is there's a negotiation process between you the defendant and the prosecutor how that unfolds depends on the situation but presumably if you did the max fine and it would be $2,000 fine if you removed a 4inch dbh tree without a permit and you would also have to presumably put money into the tree replacement Fund in order to mitigate your damages now as prosecutor or the judge might lower those two amounts they might say um because you're mitigating it now and because you didn't know about the rule let's say for example you got the summons you're so sorry and and you're happy to abide by the tree ordinance the prosecutor might say okay you ple guilty to this you pay a dollar fine but now you have to go mitigate the tree I have to go mitigate and you have to go follow the rules of the ordinance so it depends on each situation I can't say that there's a blanket way to handle it um unless there was something built in to the ordinance as I think it was councilwoman Williams suggested something that said on first offense it's that much second offense it's that much but as it's written now it's the I think there's a wealth of different scenarios and I I think it's best situated with the Professionals in in the court to determine that yeah I agree so um okay because right now our ordinance sits at you could take three down in a year I no we lower that oh the new the new one no no no what exists now uh up to three you don't have to get a permit anything over three you have to get a permit okay so it's up to three and that's been that way forever it's been way forever it's 1 am we should be yeah yeah let's move it right along okay and again this this has to be a campaign to notify the public yeah I'm gonna have a meeting with the contractors the town contractors we'll have a meeting um and then we have to have some money allocated for sending out no notices people website social media right all right so we have made substantive changes to this ordinance Mr Jenaro um so then what is our procedural Next Step are we going to approve this with the changes it'll go back to First reading are any of those substantive I I would argue no no right now if they are take them out and let's just pass them no we gotta get this yeah this has to go tonight I mean yeah yeah oh no right so that's a subjective thing let somebody suici so right now we have to to approve or disapprove well you have to the public hearing we didn't do the public hearing part yet no yeah um now is the time for we're gonna open public hearing for um ordinance 28 46-24 is anyone in council chambers um if you would like to comment on 2846 now is your opportunity so none of these changes were substan no this just on the tree ordinance folks it's just the tree ordinance Tre ordinance yeah yours is 48 sorry seeing none public comment is now closed okay now is there a motion to anybody well move so moves okay okay okay so and that's as amended councilwoman celino happy to say yes we go it's done hope Council hanging councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman scorpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes the motion carries unanimously unanimously thank you thank you all oh wow okay now is Mr moon on uh Mr Fagan he is not he is not well we're pulling the Cannabis because it has to council president can I make I don't know if I have to make a motion or if you can just allow the people in the room that want to C comment on cannabis if you can open up the public comment for non-agenda items now and then they've sat since one o'clock instead of having them wait through new business and there's a long list of stuff counc I'm happy to thank you thank you so much council president you're welcome councilwoman we are going to open public comment um our second public comment um for those that are in the uh chamber if you would like to uh offer public comment on anything you may do it now same rules apply you have five minutes you need to identify your name and address thank you Mr kit thank you thank you Mr Kip thank you Mr Kip and just for the record Mr Kip did a phenomenal job working with a bunch of different constituents to get this done in a highly charged situation and he he handled himself uh very well professionally uh Madam hi Council uh Jen hardell Blue Violet grow 76 Ashlin um not going to take too much of your time I know we're all pretty exhausted here I'm just a little confus um and just looking for a little Clarity on um the ordinance uh being move tonight um because it hasn't gone through the planning board just want to understand that timing a little bit more um and when we're possibly looking at uh getting the second vote back on the agenda and also how I know that's a separate from um revoking Peace of Minds support and I don't know how that all plays together um and how that affects my possible future application um for cultivation and manufacturing I'm really against a tight timeline as everybody knows um it's this month is is really do or die for for blue violet uh had a lease for over a year been paying for lease for over a year this state my expiration date is is approach ING with the state of New Jersey and hanging on by a thread and just really looking for uh your support and anything you can do to help expedite the process I'm not sure if there's any way to to push this forward uh how long it'll take to go to the planning board and then get back on the agenda again if there's anything that could happen you know not in in in the public form meeting um I just really ask for your help um if there's anything we can do to to exped the process and get a little bit more understanding of of what the next steps are based off of of tonight's latest that's really what I'm looking for tonight thank you thank you Miss hardell anyone else want to comment seeing none public comment is now closed um so um this is a sticky one because it is not going to be back before the end of the month if it has to go to the planning board um I'm not sure exactly when the planning board's meeting I think it's next Wednesday so a week from is it a week from tomorrow that's what that so right that's not enough time God bless you ask but it's not likely though but it's it's possible I think it's a week from to tomorrow I'm not sure the clerk is looking it up if it is then it would come back to us for first reading because no wait um no it would come back it would come back for second reading on if any and then on second final reading I have a question to to kill two birds with one stone as the saying goes um when it does come back can we also I guess a new business vote to lift the moratorium specifically for cultivation so that she can apply or whoever else is going to apply and then we go through that process of selecting who we want that cultivator to be so so we we should take that vote to put that on the agenda now because if we do that at the second meeting then it would come on for the first meeting in June that's that's a time crunch so the councilwoman is asking us to um support opening lifting the moratorium on cultivation um to add that resolution on for our next meeting you want to have some discussion so I I've been very open and and forward and and and Jen I really really give you a lot of credit um for hanging in there with us I said from the very beginning and I'm glad we got the first part done with 76 because that you couldn't even move forward on anything until we revoked that uh app uh that application which we did this evening so that part of leis is done I've also been very vocal uh publicly and privately with you with for me I I also need to see you know the one we already had aove you know open and get started so I know whether to move forward for myself with cultivation I'm still hesitant because it's so close to the residences across the street and with the smell so um I'm going to be a no on that right now and I know you have time frames and I I see I gather these are investors here with you um the way this whole process has come down from the state I think is insane and it puts a lot of Rush uh situations on the townships to make these kind of decisions without having all the uh all of our needs met um and it puts a lot of financial responsibility on the investors so the way this whole process has been rolled out has been very frustrating especially for you with the money end of it and and with us with the legislation being thrown upon us but that I'm only one out of five I'll let my colleague speak um want me to go oh sure Council you wanna yeah since I I pretty much agree with um all of the sentiments of councilwoman celino I think I've been very vocal about I have really real huge concerns about that being in a residential neighborhood and I could not vote for anymore until we see what happens with the first one councilwoman you want to weigh in so I am um supportive however in opening up cultivation um is my understanding and I just want to make sure we clarify what that process is going to look like for the council if this should pass so if we were to um say yes we wanted to have three votes to put it on the agenda for the very next meeting I'm looking at the calendar because again so actually I just got some information from our uh ba okay so we actually um there there may not be and there be thinking right now M Mr Abbot if you want to kind of communicate that so the I believe the moratorium was more or less informal just the council directed they didn't want to entertain any entertain any new applicants so I think you can lift that if you have a majority and just direct me to open the request for application the RFA process right so I want to walk through that process if I may because it we need to make sure it makes sense and I want to understand the entire process so if we were to open up that process by a majority vote tonight to lift the moratorium that would go on as a resolution at the next council meeting our next council meeting have an inter interview there has there's whole vetting process let me let me let me finish if I may the resolution to lift the moratorium we go on the next council meeting would be the 21st I don't think you need a resolution to lift it it was more or less an informal no we took a vote no we took a vot well you were this was before you were on the council but we took a vote it vote it was a it was vote was to stop taking applications no it was to enforce the moror enfor moror Mr Mr Jenaro can you research that real quick so to go back and see how if I can if it was in our system somewhere how we did this to see if there was a resolution or if there was it was the second meeting of December 2022 make moratorium then pres it was not it was in January no no it was for January it's we approved okay so maybe the first meeting in January yes we approved of of 23 we approved no because they weren't on the council oh you're going back further than I thought they weren't on the council yet correct we had nothing I think it before myself and Susan Scarpa this is our second year it was the year before second second first or second meeting of December 2022 yeah so I don't but but let me just kind continue to go through the timeline because that part doesn't matter because even if if even if and this is this is where I want to be clear and understand so let's say we don't have to have a resolution let's just say we make a decision tonight okay we've got to do a RFP process RFA RFA process how long does that have to stay open you like 30 days that's what we did the last we okay so if the the application has to stay open for 30 days then us as the council members have to come back up and review those applications so we're going to have to have a special meeting to review the applications 30 days from now let's just say we did it by the 10th 30 days from the 10th is going to be the 7th of June we've got a that's what the process is going to have to stay open the application process then we're going to have to schedule a date to come in and review those applications we're going to have to choose how those applications are going to be be viewed whatever the weighted process is going to be however many we have and then let's just say we can get that done the next week which is the first week of June what's the what's your real deadline I mean does that even make sense we have the budget to do well can't we because if we're doing it if we're doing even though we're doing it to allow Jen and opportunity to apply it's still going to go to others and then does it have to go to others or can you just open for one person so to be consistent we'd have to keep we unless we want to open ourselves up to litigation I think we want to keep it consistent with how we did the first time would it be satisfactory for your process and for anyone sorry council president I found the resolution it is a resolution what what what it's resolution number and now I don't know if it passed because I'm only going off the agenda so it's sh 25-22 and it's entitled on the agenda was entitled a resolution temporarily suspending the acceptance of applications for local support for proposed Canabis business that is the no oh I'm sorry the October 25th 2022 meeting so we suspended the application process but then we heard um piece I mean not not peace of mind but um uh the people who we disapproved yeah n nordia oh P pure natural Vibes we that was the very last meeting of December yes yeah that's what that was that's what that DEC yes yes well that was because they were already in the pipeline though yes I well that's the controversy well they were the first ones to apply or one of the first if not the first and they were rejected I don't know that they were rejected I think so let's but In fairness to our process and what not we were way closed before you even came along so that's that's been so so if we were to so if we if we reopen it then it's back to my process which means we have to reopen it by resolution at the next meeting which is on the 21st if you leave the the application you get the RFA out by the end of the week because we're already prepared for this we still have 30 days that's going to be the end of June and then we still have to review the applications that's going to put us into July what is your deadline I mean that's that's gonna I mean please yeah St two o'clock in the morning so things right so for an extension I can apply to the state for an extension which I've done before um you know it's not a guaranteed yes they've had they have said yes before they're trying to do everything they can to help um people that they gave licenses to to stay alive in this process so I can go and try and apply for another um 30-day extension um but you know it's it's questionable um I'm sure they they've done it already so I there's no reason to think they they see that everything is lined up I have my I I'm just waiting for the letter of support right so everything is in the system I have a signed lease I have full funding I have um all my approvals from the state they're just waiting for me to get my approval from from West Orange to move forward so that's very likely we go down this road does that demonstrate enough to the state that we are actually moving toward toward that assuming that your application would be approved which there is no guarantee that it would but if it were that you that we're moving toward that now I mean we we're not at all now moving toward that so the steps that we may take tonight would demonstrate that we are now moving toward that would that be enough I think it would um but my question's separate from that is the answer to your question is yes but my other question is I think we talked about this um when you guys were doing the work work shop um with peace of mind that you're revoking um that had the cultivation and Manufacturing for my address now that I have had a lease for the last year if if that address was connected to peace of mind and now they're being revoked is that can that be looked at separate than opening opening the moratorium like to it has to do the location and it has to be a fair and open process too okay only that we we decided that the purpose of doing the moratorium and imposing the uh restriction on no more than four cannabis entities was because if any of the entities fell off we knew that we still were only going to allow for those to evolve that were still in the pipeline process not for anyone new and just to clarify that's not the whole Council that's just some of the council that felt that way I voted no to that well it's the majority vote and the majority vote was to that's why we issued I understand that I'm just making it clear to miss hardell because you said we I just want to clarify yes it might have been weak it's the majority but I never supported that I felt like cultivation is great this industry is growing people are always going to need more they grow it I mean it's not you're not getting foot traffic like we do with dispensaries it's automatic 2% of their revenue which is phenomenal for a Township with our taxes and our financial issues so so a couple things I want to respond one on aut mitigation I've been learning some things um so it is possible to measure odor scientifically um there are particles in the air I'm still learning but there is a way to do it uh so we will be able to objectively measure odor which will help us in enforcing the ordinance um and two I do think now that we've gone through some we have some history of this and know for me certainly especially since we're contemplating having three uh cultivation and Manufacturing licenses and four dispensaries in town um I'm I'm happy to reopen it and you know see who applies and then begin the process to evaluate them score them and see who we wanted to support and so my other question or commentary would be um and I want to say this you know to to Jen um Miss hardell understandably you have been the motivating factor if this does moratorium gets lifted but who's to say that and I'm no disrespect intended but there could be a better vendor than you and we might decide that oh my gosh this person is better and has a better opportuni so those are still some of the risks that are involved with the process being opened up that allows anybody else to put forth an opportunity and then we'll have to take what I mean what if it's 10 people that want to come to cultivator we have to decide how many we're gonna take and which ones are going to be better and again and my frustration with this whole process from the beginning in the very early and of and in full disclosure for the newcomers in the audience um is that I was on the original uh task force when this process first started and um you know was always said we had that flexibility we don't have to approve one over the other we could pick and choose so that's why I don't understand why at this point we can't just open it up for this vendor who has a location if that's what you guys we're going to lift the moratorium and not do a a a fair and open process and that I I I'm I'm I'm just saying what we were told in the very beginning that's can require a lease because I think we kind of burned on the letters of intent well I mean we had already agreed that if we were going to open the process they must have a lease but that doesn't mean that somebody can't I mean as soon as we open this process 30 days they can go get a lease in 30 days there's very limited yeah I mean that's a good problem to have I think we be for be great problem if we had 10 people competing I I don't think we will I well five I have a question um with the request that's going to be put out does it have to be open for 30 days is that set by ordinance or can we say two weeks if it's 30 days we don't want to get flooded with so many people that we're now inundated and saturated it with applications and it's still a budget season we still have meetings and other things that we're working on and board and commission meetings so can we do that 15 days instead of the 30 days or two weeks put two weeks on it I think I I think if we do anything other than what we did originally we might be especially with all the conversation we've now had on the record with a particular potential applicant like what what are the rules we we said we establish the rules by what we already put in practice so our our rules are going to be based on past practice and again it's going to look like if we do anything and deviate in any capacity from the past practice that we've already implemented it's going to look like we're being favorable towards a particular um it's what it is yeah we're not we're being I mean again I I I will remind us we are on the record but then again we were that way with the first round the applicants because we had different different applicants that applied the first round and I'm not going to go into some of the comments that were made at that time but you know I'm just saying it's one yeah no no but I'm just saying to I don't whatever I I I I'll let the attorney I have a question have we do we know what other municipalities are doing are any of them in our sit similar situation how many days they have their application process open I don't know that we know can answer that question toight what other municipalities are doing we would have to have to so I just think if we do anything other than the 30 days especially given how this meeting has already gone and how other meetings have gone I think if we do anything other than what we did originally it could be deemed uh unfair um so I'm happy to reopen for 30 days I don't know what the mechanism is if we can start that ball rolling tonight uh I think we should um and I is that a motion you're making are we voting on this now well how how do we need three votes put for a resolution on the next meeting so I second your motion uh council president thank you to um to put a resolution on for our next meeting to lift the moratorium on on uh applicants for uh cultivation and and Manufacturing with a they know she knows that no with a lease that's in the ordinance that's in the ordinance already no no you can have a you can have a lease or or l oh no you can't no no letter of we change that that's changed now that's changed now changed that's already changed that's not the recent changes because those letters of intent went nowhere it's a motion to essentially lift the moratorium moratorium to put a resolution on at next meeting to lift the moratorium on cultivation man that lift the moratorium for 30 days and close it back down resolution leting the the moratorium for 30 days do do we have to put all of that in the resolution 30 days do we have to I mean you're gonna open an applicant portal for we put for 30 days for 30 days question you got it you like it I love it okay question council president and um Mr Jero refreshed my memory so ordinance no no in the ordinance is it just cultivation or did we include another category in there we cultivation and Manufacturing you'd have to include manufacturing not just cultivation right because it's in the ordinance in the ordinance it's cultivation and Manufacturing yeah both and we and we're talking about being fair yes no that that's that's the someone gonna sue us is a manufacturer gonna sue us if we open the moratorium for cultivation but then voted on an ordinance that says cultivation SL manufacturing like I want to make sure that we're the motion is to lift the moratorium on cultivation and Manufacturing on both it's written that way in the ordinance as the category I know I only heard Mr Jen as I asked the question just say cultivation he didn't include manufacturing volunteer and encompasses both just trying to he's going to include both good yeah I got you I know you got I'm G to take a vote on that uh councilwoman castelino uh no councilwoman gber Michel yes councilwoman scorpa no councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay so the motion carries so for the next meeting I'll have a resolution drafted and put on the agenda thank you okay thank you thank you thank you you guys can go get some sleep you're very patient absolutely um all right so we have an ordinance on first reading than folks next thank you folks 2851 24 and ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7- 32.2 restricted parking zones of the revised General ordinances of West orang for introduction on first reading okay uh okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford yes the motion carries all right pending matters new matters Council discussion um Okay so the first thing on here is ccrb representative do we have any candidates I have somebody that I want to recommend but I want to be able to circulate their um resume to my colleagues before we vote on that so I'm going to request that we just give um one more meeting okay we no worries I have someone too I'm waiting for their resume okay perfect just send them along and then we'll make sure everyone gets it thank you uh approval of the older adults Advisory Board uh bylaws I move for the adoption of the older adults advisory second okay um councilwoman celino oh wait a minute before the this this is not to approve them now right this is to add it to the this is to approve them this is to approve them now we don't approve by resolution right but I wanted one section of that taken out the town clerk shall notify the public of special meetings in accordance to standard practice this I'll make a motion to remove that you're going to okay a second thank you uh all right so let's take a vote on the amendment councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes I just have one one question um do you want to move the term of the board members two years I don't want to I I believe that a number of us have um um is that the recommendation of the board because you are the liaison yeah the board recommends that um they do at least two years my they didn't they didn't do that just ni called it tonight but the board hasn't formally made that decision uh which may not be the last meeting the last meeting that I was at was either one or two meetings ago did vote on it we didn't vote on it no we never vote on it there was just a little discussion there was no vot was the discussion amongst the entire group that all agreed that but there was no vote okay but they all agreed yeah no no they didn't all agree not they did not all agree who objected no I don't think anybody physically objected because they didn't see it as a vote that was going to happen but there needs to be a formal vote on that and there are a lot of people who feel that they want um if the per if if a council person wants someone to serve for four years they have the opportunity to keep continue to nominate them for four years but there are a number of people who feel that there should be uh council person should have the ability to put a new a different person on there so so those are two separate issues councilwoman we should be able to remove appointees under certain circumstances but it's difficult and it's it's is difficult you know and we and it's just as easy to re hold on a second so that is an issue on every board with every appointee not just that and we thought about making it consistent Council woman can I and this may be this all may be for not because I forgot this is in ordinance so something like that that's not an ordinance no voted on it we vot on the ordinance no but the membership these might be the bylaws but the number one is is it by ordinance so yeah the membership is by ordinance yeah so conversation it's too late to okay so I'm fine let's yeah because it's 2:00 okay so we have made the amendment and then we are now voting on the actual approval of the bylaws with the amendment is where we are and I move for the adoption of or the approval of the bylaw second yeah all right okay um okay so as amended councilwoman Celina so the amendment was your Amendment yes okay yes uh yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Ruther yes okay the motion carries uh okay so resolution to move forward with the litigation docket number esxl 48672 3 what is this that's the um the mayor versus Council litigation I know but what what because you had there was an executive session where you voted to um move forward with the litigation but you actually need a resolution to do so so that was never so I to do a resolution okay I that motion okay did you put a motion yeah I just offered it okay and I second it okay thank you um all right councilwoman celino no councilwoman gber Michel yes councilwoman Scarpa no councilwoman Williams no council president Rutherford yes okay so the motion fails so so you want to you lost the appe no we lost the ability no no I want to move forward I thought it was to um to not to no there was a resolution to move forward reation yeah oh yeah no I want to move forward oh that's why I thought you was Voting now okay and we didn't lose the case the judge is still waiting to decide and make her final decision your V to be clear is yes forward okay okay that's one do we have a total on how much we've spent for that appeal that we lost we can find out that I can you um find out what the cost is up to date sure and I just want to say since we're going to have some commentary on this um the heart of this matter which has been conflated consistently by the mayor and her legal team the heart of this matter is whether or not anyone can do work for this Township without a contract that is the heart of the matter it was clarified in here multiple times when Mr gross asked me does uh the other law firms are concerned are they able to do work clarified it on the record this was about Mr trink finding a way along the rule he has in his history had multiple law firms I did not want him to come back and do $40,000 worth of work as a sole proprietor do $40,000 worth of work under this Law Firm $40,000 worth of work under that for Law Firm or assign work to a law firm that would then just assign it back to him I I I did not want him to work around the resolution which is why it was worded that way it had been clarified multiple times we are all aware of the process to remove someone as the head of legal this is not to remove him as the head of the legal department this is about Mr tr's Law Firm for 25 years in a row getting a contract asking for a contract having a contract voted on for 25 years in a row on the 20 or 24 years in a row on the 25th year the contract did not pass in spite of all the chicanery it did not pass and now we're in year two of him doing work his firm doing work without a contract charging West Orange property taxpayers at this point over $600,000 without contract that is unconscionable the judge should rule she knows she should rule she said she was going to rule by January when she heard the the case in December and all reasonable attorneys would expect that a month or two is more than enough time to rule on that case so I I expect whenever that ruling does come out that it will be based on the law the law is you can't do to work without a contract doesn't have a contract shouldn't be doing the work and honestly he should he should withdraw himself from doing from assigning work to his firm and and if he doesn't the mayor should do it herself she's enabling someone without a a firm without a contract to continue bullying West Orange that should stop that should not go on and and if by some Stroke of Luck the judge decided on councilwoman celino's perspective we've been breaking the law we've been doing it this way for that long uh well it's not it's not legit um you don't need a law firm to be the head of legal um we've been doing it this way for so long we should just be able to continue doing this way if she were to to rule that by some Stroke of Luck then bring them back but the fact that he doesn't have a contract the resolution had passed it was legitimately passed it was voted on in this body and has not been abided by not a single day and so I'm said enough it's two o'clock um this this lawsuit will play out and I expect at the end of the day uh will prevail lot of things councilman so I'm just going to ask the public that there's a 32-page decision that you could read uh from the judge and um again this is something where we disagree and and it's late in the hour but to insinuate that uh laws were broken when a judge ordered this went to the judge immediately when it was filed and the judge order for um Mr trank to stay in place so to say that laws are being broken is not true legal work still had to get done uh it was unanimous vote that he was the head of the Law Department he was in his right to issue um work to where he wanted to issue work according to this judge and then you know the judge ruled that it's it's to stay for now so I know you're frustrated over this I'm frustrated but we're costing the taxpayers up to $100,000 lawsuit and all this could uh again uh you know should be uh should be um you know the train firm is not the only firm that can do do work it's a conflict of interest for him not to have a process to assign the work so we didn't just throw money people that can do the work you're you're correct you're correct someone has a contract but it was work that still needed to be can I say something can I say something council president please do just to clarify councilwoman castelino the judge and you can read it issued an intrum decision to keep to to to for the it's not a final ruling and it is a temporary order to show cause so until she makes her final decision that's what it says in there so when you say it's a judge it's a you're not you're not being clear you're not being transparent that it is inm until she makes a decision the case is not set in stone he doesn't the firm doesn't say set in stone we don't know what's going to happen until she makes her decision in the meantime it will everything will remain status quo that's what she said until she issues a decision okay and from the time the resolution passed from the time the resolution pass passed until that August temporary injunctive relief was issued the law was broken because he didn't have a contract he shouldn't have been doing any work thing it was it's New Jersey state statute that each of us took an oath to uphold the New Jersey and US Constitution and right now we're in violation well not now before the judge issued her a temporary order to show cause we were in violation and we took the steps as elected officials were supposed to protect the people and uphold those laws and constitutions that's what we were doing protecting democracy off motion to close second second good night West Orange wa two more oh wait one wait wait wait wait wait one thing we have to get done is is the 23d Madame clerk put out a email to us in regards to a budget hearing on the 23rd is every oh we definitely I mean we got to get this Budget moving I already responded I'm available I responded can't do 23rd I'm traveling the 23rd of what of May I do May 23rd you're traveling how about the 20 how about the 24th that's a I can't do the 24th I can do the 23rd oh that's Memorial Day weekend I can do the do the they can't do the 23rd 23rd the platform Zoom platform is not available there's there's a zoning board meeting is it 21st the council Me Oh I thought said the 22nd and 23rd were available I can do 20th I I'm not available I can do Monday Monday the 20th yes and then a council meeting on Tuesday oh wait can't do Mondays no I can't do Mondays or Tuesdays well then we're adding the following week for me the budget the budget how about the following Wednesday or Thursday 29th or 30th possibility Saturday a Saturday uh I don't want to do Saturdays got the stre fair June 1st is the stre fair long and tedious process so yeah we got to get it done I can't do it rather four hour evenings I can do the 29th of May yes wait is what day is a we I mention I mentioned that date in the 30 I'm available I'll book that day the 29th uh 30th 30th is there anything I don't know yet check Town calendar I'll check that one and what time are we the earlier the better five o'clock can you do five uh I'm not sure yet all right let me check the date too and I'll make sure I could get here as early as possible so we're cheing is I have enough notice I can try to get here I should be okay then but I'll try to make it work there's nothing on the Township calendar on the website that I don't know oh I just checked it for the 30th and I will do five o'clock if uh you guys can I'll try I'll I'll I'll so let's put it in pencil yeah put in pencil 5:00 okay and then you'll confirm with me yeah I should be okay by then okay and that's going to be on zo yes but the public cannot comment correct and also but it has to be T citizen budget advisory committee I got your appointment I need everybody's appointment for that um mine is Kevin I'll give you mine oh I'll send it send it to me yeah um I'm sorry what did you say Council I'll send you mine okay thank you um there's two other issues under pending matters I don't know if you want to postpone them Town Hall might as well just finish it out well the one the bottom so much for that Bott one okay so there's only one I have a question do we have to open up the meeting again because we all adjourned it like what's okay yeah yeah Town Hall meetings well so here here's where I am on it um so because of my personal schedule I had to uh cancel one um I only received um feedback from councilwoman scarper with regard to using the picture um so if y'all don't want to do it you don't have to I will do it myself um I tried to do it this way to avoid allegations of being using of of this being a campaign event uh I got those allegations anyway I tried to end it early before campaign season started to avoid that still got the allegations anyway so if y'all don't want to do it don't um I'll do it myself and if if any of you want to come just notify me ahead of time I'll let the clerk know and she can publicly notice the meeting if you give us enough time if not I'll do it myself I I think it is important that residents have an opportunity to meet with the with their elected officials this has been standard practice it's been done in every town for years um somehow now because I do it and and it's not unusual because almost every single thing I do is met with some level of resistance from someone um so if you don't want to do it don't I'm going to do it myself just just tell me because what I'll do then is just change the application from Town Council to councilman Rutherford I'll change the the flyers from all five of us on the flyer to just myself um and you can continue to level Campaign allegations if you so choose okay so real quick because it's late so and I've talked to you offline about this uh I was upset when you first said the dates because you you put in a permit with the schools and you picked a bunch of dates and then we thought you were going to get back to us what was confirmed and not so and I know you're going through some stuff you had a lot of stuff going on with with with um with your family and all so I I I get why the night we had that discussion you were agitated but at the end of the day um had you know I known that let's all do this together here are some dates yeah I I I'm all in for that I couldn't do every single week I I'm am limited I'm helping my daughter I explain to you I can't get to all these meetings right now um you want to have them down the road and it's a date we could all we can't even agree to get a budget hearing and that's the other problem like that like we got to get this budget done and then we could talk about the five of us meeting together I think and I I asked mam clerk how did we leave it with the uh ABC hearing that is still on for June bless you yes still on for June 12 yes so we're all on for June 12th for that meeting and yeah so um I say we got to focus on budget meetings first let's get that done um all four with the public with all of us but just finding the date is the frustrating part and I felt like it was like okay well I don't need you all there anyway so just do it so yeah so I made a snarky remark to you because I felt that you know I was getting blown off anyway so um and then when the flyer went out we were getting phone calls like all of us were going to be there when you know we weren't so and I also think there needs a process to not to get the schools involved as the school B Lea on and and the person who who uh had originally was involved with the writing of the school facility policies I think if it's something where the five of us are agreeing to and even and obviously all five of us can't be there but if we say okay let's have a couple of these meetings this one can't be here all big people only four of us are going to be there it's advertised it's it's a council voted upon event I think Madam clerk should go and file the uh permits uh from the council so this way it's it's easier and the school knows it's it's all of us are involved but I hear you I hear your frustration a lot of us go out and and do things which I don't think we should I never follow that practice I think if we want to have something we you should always get the mayor's um input also um this was something you want to do just from us and um I respect that but would appreciated more dialogue prior to the dates being booked that's all I appreciate that councilwoman just to correct a couple things one this was not something that I pushed I uh a resident came to that microphone all five of us were here I agreed to organize it so um and I when I I did tell you the dates um I wasn't unclear in how the email was written I wasn't sure if that email meant just the first date or all the dates and that's exactly what I said in the meeting I actually went back and reviewed it said I'm not sure if this email means all of the dates are confirmed but I gave you that night all of the dates or just the first date was confirmed um but all of the push back came even before the first the first one and then you know it just struck me as odd how um there was a lot of hoopla over the usage of pictures and then after three separate emails and one or two different text messages ask asking do you want to use your pictures or not I didn't get a response like if it was that big of a deal I would have expected a response well we said for me personally I asked let let few times we try to connect with talking about it I I hate having those kind of conversations through text we need to talk and and I know you had things going on and uh whatnot but we didn't connect so um all right so you guys let me know because the dates uh that are still on the calendar are still in the calendar and just for us the open the dates you have sure and and and one other thing I I neglected to say a moment ago um excuse me councilman but what about the the budget hearing so if those are dates you have open obviously you're you're busy on those days like shouldn't we get the budget done first so and then or or maybe pick and choose when we could get this done I'm just saying because I we got to get this bu done think the budget should be the priority this we can't even get a budget date we just you know all right so we just a budget date I'm I'm done so let let me um y'all y'all are y y'all are I uh offer a motion to close this adjourn this we can handle this stuff offline um this is enough 1:55 am sir second I second I second all in favor any oppos