a good evening West Orange this is Joe Fagan uh public information officer welcome to the uh Westar solid waste and recycling collection public hearing uh we are live in council chambers and we'll be here from 6:30 to 8:30 at this point I'm going to turn the meeting over to uh our presenter Mr Wayne defo Wayne take it away thank you Joe good evening everybody and welcome to the public information session tonight this is designed to try to answer your questions regarding the solid wasting collection bid and the different variables that that bid offers before we go to Q&A what I wanted to do was give you a brief overview of what the options are that we're looking at and why we're looking at those options and what can happen the basis of very short sorry about that I'm going to do a very short Power Point mostly pictures because I think pictures tell a better story than words usually do and it will give you an idea of why and what we're looking at and then really what I'm here to do tonight is to try to open the up or questions from you so that I can try to answer those questions and if you have concerns and try to address some of those concerns this is on a go forward basis although I will certainly try to answer questions about something that may or may not be occurring today I'm not here every day but we uh do have Michael fono here from the health department I will take notes we'll have this recorded of course and we'll look into any issues that we can essentially this is how this is some of these pictures are actually from West Orange this is how you're recycling in solid ways can look at the curb today this is not unusual in a community that does not have a cart system now I know some of you have had concerns about carts overall and let me explain that on a national level and in other places of New Jersey as well Mo a lot of New Jersey we are seeing that carts are becoming the norm and they're becoming the norm because they help to prevent this kind of an image from taking place in a town what's wrong with this image well I think some of that's obvious I don't think I have to explain it right which is why I say a picture is worth more than just any words part of the problem is not so much that it's plastic bags that we've gotten to over the years of course is that anything can open that bag and I'm sure you have seen animals ripping the bags open at some point or another in the history of collection in this Township you again let me point out to you West Orange is not unique in this regard right you are not the only people in the world who have animal problems with their garbage if you were in Sussex Warren hunon any of the more rural counties you would have obviously bear eating through the garbage which you've had some instances even where I live we've had that it's not unusual to see that and you may have read of course there were bear just in the South Mountain reservation about two weeks go that the police had to shoot because it had gone after them I'm not trying to scare you it's not saying bear running through West Orange eating you're garbage that's not the case but clearly plastic bags invite all ends from rodents to raccoons the skunks you name it dogs if a dog is loose it will go through that again did it not go forward there we go uh this is in a commercial sector I have tried to block out any identifiers from the IM Imes as best I can not looking to pick on anybody but this isn't a fault this isn't saying someone's doing something wrong necessarily this is just the system that's currently in place and I think it's important for you to see those images I probably don't have to show you these pictures you live here you see it again a residential unit plastic bags out this is an issue in the commercial sector again you have a litter basket being used it's open very easy to get into and again another commercial image the same situation where you have things getting out of hand and of course this can get really out of hand we're not getting in again we're not placing blame we're saying is there a way to improve this so the township asked can we look at alternatives when you go to bid when we go to bid to see if there is anything that we can do to improve the situation understand that change is never easy when you're changing a system that you are used to and understand in any Community where a town has looked to change the way Solid Waste Andor recycling is collected there are always questions and I would expect if there were none I might be more concerned that if there are any even this week I was in another Community where they're deciding do they want garbage collection they currently don't have it they have Subscription Service which most of the state geographically has where you pay as an individual for your own company to come pick that up that's what I have the town is wondering should we even go to Municipal collection now I say this somewhat tongue and cheek but I would say if a town wants to save the most money and I'm not recommending this by any measure you simply stop garbage collection and everybody in town is on their own you'd save a lot of tax dollars but you'd pay a lot of individual dollars and you would have an interesting situation again same situation now these are actual Cart images being done in communities obviously not in West Orange but I've tried to pick images of communities that are similar demographically to West St to give you an idea of what this would look like the concept here you would use either blue or black carts or gray carts the color is totally irrelevant by the way you can have any color you want in carts but if you standardize the carts the blue is typically recycling naturally I don't remember why but for some reason blue became the recycling color for buckets and carts I should remember why but I don't in this case although they're a bit scattered it certainly is neater than the bags this would have been post collection same thing here again somewhat post collection and these are these typical carts that I see in front of we did bring samples of carts just to show you what a cart looks like every manufacturer of these carts and there are many companies that make these they all look essentially the same they might be a slightly different tweak in the lid or a slightly different tweak on how they're made but for practical purposes they're identical here's a very nice set out and this is what generally happens after the initial shock of going to carts and making a change takes place this is normally how you start to see that set out in a community and it really depends every Community is different on how they do this every Community has different concerns some concerns are is it hilly well yes they work on hilly communities I've worked with several communities that do that one is in the Poconos which as you can imagine is somewhat hilly they have no issues the city it's going to jump West Coast for a second the city of San Francisco you get three carts per home and if you've been to San Francisco I think you can attest that it's fairly hilly and they work just fine the carts are designed to withstand a question that someone asked me the other day I think it was in West AR well what if we get high winds remember was it Saturday so when what day was that Monday we had all those high winds right the carts are typically designed not to if they're full they're not going to tip over very easily no matter what but even empty they generally won't even move until the winds hit the 40 or 50 mile an hour mark we get a hurricane soone what about a hurricane well all bets are WR but what would your GB would be doing in a hurricane if it wasn't in a part when you're going carts that concern them what kind of trucks can they service West Arm well there are basically two ways that trucks work into collect carts the one on the left is called a side loader or fully automated loader that has a oneperson crew the robotic arm reaches out grabs the C dumps it and puts it back that is not going to work everywhere in West Orange it will work in some parts of West Orange but not all of Westar and this is not unusual for communities that convert to carts an example Middletown New Jersey converted to carts and they have Community areas that are very densely populated with on street parking and areas where it's more rural you use two different trucks the truck on the right is a typical what you're used to seeing is a garbage truck it has a device on the back which they call a cart Tipper every garbage truck made in this country and is on the that is on the road today can have a c Tipper on it it's a very easy add-on if it's not already there you would probably see one or both kinds of trucks in your town I can't tell you which that would be up to the contractor that would be their decision to make if they don't have the truck on the left certainly understand that they may not want to make that investment those are very expensive Vehicles someone asked me the other day that truck on the left brand new today probably between $350 and $400,000 if they don't have one they probably aren't buying one because they can convert the other truck very inexpensively why look why am I stressing this image of carts because I want you to compare and see in your mind's eye the difference between some of the images that I showed you earlier and what C systems can do for a community in my experience over the years I am seeing more and more community moving to carts when I work with communities I encourage them to go to carts because I know it's cleaner neater easier and safer and the safer part goes to the contractor to the person on the back of the trucks one of the most dangerous jobs in this country is being on the back of a garbage truck I know this will shock you but sometimes people overload their garbage cans sometimes people put things like bricks and concrete in the bottom of garbage bags and the hauler doesn't know this until they go to pick it up in the private sector private companies generally attempt to service up to 600 homes per day I defy anyone here to pick up a 50 PB bag 600 times and in this heat so why are people going to carts the companies like it because it saves them on injuries people they need fewer people to do the same work and they can't get people how many of you have businesses in this town how many find it easy to find people to hire today you're not you're not having an easy time well do you think it's easier to find someone hey I have a job for you paying maybe 20 $22 an hour to be on the back of a truck in 95 degree heat picking up people's garbage it's not the easiest sell you can make almost that much at a Starbucks a WWA or anything else this helps on a lot of levels to clean things up now you're not bound to this and I am stressing here all the positives it's cleaner it's more efficient you tend not to get as much litter because if the wind's blowing the lid is down the lid does not blow up even easily it tends to contain odor because the lid is down I'm not saying it won't smell when you tip it garbage is still garbage but it keeps the odors down especially in a commercial sector it's going to keep odor down and O is a good thing keeps rodents down keeps animals down meaning animal intrusion to get the into the cart and I say they are animal resistant so do understand there's no such thing as a raccoon proof anything in the planet actually there are some but they're steel and they're very expensive but they helped to reduce it squirrels are notoriously creative anyone try to keep a squirrel out of a bird feeder not easy to do and I've seen them eat through the carts over time that can happen it doesn't always happen and if you put it out regularly it's not an issue you had four options the township requested that we think about different ways to do the same job I like the term that someone used earlier option number one is the control bid it's what you do today it's everything you're used to today and if you anyone has been on any of the zoom presentations that we've done for the past year and a half roughly between the township committee uh and before and after the bid you've heard me say this and I'll say it again tonight because it gives you information again if you want things the way they were you have to be ready to pay more money if you want to try to contain things or improve things you might pay a little more or you might pay a little less when I say pay a little more or pay a little less don't get confused by meaning the price is going down from what it was five years ago has anyone seen their prices go down for things you're buying from five years ago because if have please let me know where that is so I can go shopping there too prices go up this is what we call containing costs trying to control the increase think of it like putting LED lights in your house your electric bill might still have gone up but how much more would it go up if you didn't do that and that's what we're talking about here so option one was your control we know what those numbers are option two is a little bit of a tweak okay what if we change a few things we want the Improvement of the carts to make the town look better but we still want to have essentially much of what we had today the commercial stays in effect your weekly bulk stays in effect but let's tweak that just a little bit and say let's do bulk with reservation okay what does that mean bulk with reservation means that you would contact the Hauling Company in advance of your col elction day if it's number two option two and you would say hey I have three pieces of bulk as I'm allowed to put out and I am at such and such address come pick that up gets into a system and they send the truck to do that why go to reservation because we have found in studies in other towns and in other communities that have done this most people don't put bulk out every week but if you have no reservation the truck has to drive all over the town looking for it in this way by making the reservation and that can be by phone or Internet it'll be either technology then they have a specific list they can plug it into their truck route and only go to the houses where they have to move to collect the bulk that reduces the amount of trucks running through your town in communities where we've done this we went in one Community has 7,000 homes they went to bulk by reservation they kept it weekly the first week of collection from bulk they had 57 reservations that truck only had to go to 57 homes that helps to save some money and that's reflected in the bid price other than that there isn't really a whole lot of change between what you have today and option two as you move on we said okay what's the other area when we were asked what other areas can we possibly look to contain costs well one of the other areas is frequency of collection right anytime come you all come in anytime you want don't worry about it go ahead welcome the other element is frequency of collection every time someone comes to your house it costs money the more often someone comes to your house the more money it costs so we could look at how often the garbage gets collected today you have twice a week so we looked at the option of once a week does that save money well you can see that in fact it well you don't see it here I'll show it to you later but yes once a week tends to do it this doesn't have CS it's a little bit different okay we do have no commercial collection here and we have one time per month bulk and then option four which is similar to option three that's actually virtually identical except we would give you cards option four cuts the most Services down and therefore it ends up being the least expensive bid now the township committee asked that we get some answers for them they had lots of questions as you probably do right now and I hope you're jotting down more if you're thinking about it while you're sitting here and so we did a quick survey of What's Done in the county of essence partly to understand the impact on Commercial because option three and option four one way to cut cost is we wouldn't provide commercial collection so the question is what does everybody else do it's a little small but thankfully in that screen thank goodness you have a big screen I I couldn't figure out how to make it make it bigger and get it all up there but these are all the towns in ess's County the First Column is what towns in ess's County provide commercial garbage collection and as you can see virtually most are no the vast majority of communities in this County do not provide for the commercial collection of garbage in Livingston they do small commercial that would mean the corner shop you maybe has an apartment above in Nutley they have partial commercial where again you have apartments up here and you have some small commercial shops down below they provide that collection orange does and Verona and of course you as of today I didn't do that did you do that I was getting scared there for a minute I thought we had to polter all right so you can see that most communities don't do commercial collection you do I'm not saying you shouldn't and I'm not saying not to but clearly that adds a cost it is an area where there is an additional cost now the second column and the third column are almost irrelevant except that in Livingston where they pick up small commercial they limit their small commercial similarly to what a homeowner would be limited to three 32 gallon carts per business per uh bags I'm sorry or containers period that's it that is a strong limitation the carts well that's doesn't really matter because if they're not picking it up the answer is it doesn't matter Nutley however is currently out to bid where they do provide small commercial collection their only bid option is with carts so small commercial which will remain in Nutley just so you know they're not looking to cut commercial at this point because again they have too many small stores above with apartments above everybody will get a cart in nutly if they award the contract period there is no discussion with or without the last column which really is the more important one to your perspective is most communities in esss County do still maintain twice a week collection okay the only exceptions are those communities such as essx spel Maplewood and South Orange we the homeowner picks because they have Subscription Service they don't have Municipal collection so the homeowner can pick twice a week or once a week and they they pay accordingly for the service that's a bit brief summary the last question I'll try to answer in advance and then we'll get to your questions and come up and we can have this more of a discussion what about rear yard collection well most of us don't have rear yard collection I could have it if I want to pay for it and we built that into the bid and it's structured it's totally optional if a homeowner wants to pay for rear yard collection the price is prefixed there's no negotiating that's the price I'm not saying you want it but you can have it and it's based on distance if the more they the further in they have to go the more you pay again because that's time and time is money that's normally how that works in most communities that I've worked with that have gone to rear yard collection in a bit it's all based on distance now that's a bit of a summary of everything that we've done and why we looked at all of these different options so I'm going to pull this chart back up just because it's the four things we looked at again to understand that your Township elected officials said let's look and see what we can do what are our choices and what makes the most sense well based on discussion and and working on a consensus this appeared to make the most sense and these were the bids that we went out to get we did receive three biders it have three biders uh we received three bids one had to be discharged immediately because it was legally flawed we could not accept it because they did not bid all four options the second bid was the highest cost for all four options so no matter what he couldn't win the bid he was there he had gave a good price in some respects he wasn't much more on what you do today he was pretty competitive and we did check as to why did he give a much higher price than the other he said I don't know West Orange well enough and I can't Gamble and lose well I can't argue with a business person for that one because you can lose a lot of money on these contracts if you don't know what you're doing and the third bidder was the apparent low bidder which happens to be your incumbent service provider some respects I mean he knows the township better than anybody so we have the three bids we have the four options your elected officials now have to make a choice as to which option to award on to a dollar basis the fourth option is the lowest cost no matter how you look at it the did I do that and then the option two is the closest to what you have but gives you CS if you want to do it but keeps your commercial place so now what i' like to do is open this up for questions and then you have to come to the mic right yes so you want to something M I say your name didn't want to take my time to that's I suppose so if we're taping this yes we can put on the we can put on the website slides we could we could yeah we can put this on yep yes sir I really didn't want to get on this Avenue but you really presented something and ask for question and answers on not enough data what's the Delta between the four options it's like telling me you're going to sell me a car uhuh you want to know the numbers is that what you're asking me yeah at least some numbers for course I mean you can't ask people to do this without numbers okay it doesn't make sense to me before and this is not myir a reflection of what's here I'll ask questions later but I just want to make a point that I'm gonna put the numbers up for you I do want to I do want to make sure you understand I'm going to put the Delta up for you right now I'm going to put the slide up yeah but I just want to preface preface the Delta by making sure you understand there are two things to worry about let me rephrase that two things to think about when you think about numbers there's an absolute Delta which is all this is going to show you but it does not show you the non-tangible benefits just so you understand that in other words if you want to improve something you've got to invest if you don't want to invest that's your call as your town let me get to that slide okay this chart will give you what you asked for and that's the absolute Delta if what you're doing today your current price what you were paying for the last five this past contract cycle is this is a five by the way this is a five-year number but understand that the way the new bid is written your only locked into the service for 3 years the township would have a unilateral right in year four to terminate the contract for reasons that it would have to site but it could do that so understand I'm giving you a five-year number because that's what I have to do when I do an analysis your absolute Delta is $18.5 million over five years to do everything the way you do it today exactly no change whatsoever that about a 34 33.33% increase in the fee you are paying today and that by the way which I've explained I think in two or three meetings is about the state average that increase is about which we're seeing all over the state no matter how many biders I have it's about a 30 to 34% increase if you were to go to option two you can see that the current low bid price is a little bit less but since it called calls for an investment in carts that bumps the cost up because the carts would have to be purchased they're obviously not free this again these are the carts in front which will let you do play with if you want to come play with them at any time just come on up see what they're like and I would tell you that's the same as saying am I going to invest in a new and different system in the third option where we start reducing frequency we eliminate commercial you see the price drops again and then the fourth option with carts it drops one more time again very similar to three the biggest difference is that with carts it drops another $100,000 because of the limit sorry reduction in injuries to workers so those are the Deltas you're as I believe you asked for those are the absolute numbers again your choice is what do you want to do all right so we're going question from you and then I'm going to take yours next yeah I just really don't want to play tic tac to but okay that that's a baseline Delta average that out Norm across uh the residence what's that equal to it would it depends well again there are two methods of this to calculate you don't pay for service like I pay for service in other words I write it and I get to no no no no what I'm trying to say is that I can't give you an absolute Delta because you're going to pay some percentage of that number on the value of your home and so some people will pay more that's the question I'm asking but I can't answer that question because I number one I don't know the value of your home I don't know how your taxes are going to be assessed against it well again per household it could vary from anywhere it's going to vary I mean the numers again it's not a true number you're asking for an absolute Delta on a non-absolute number mathematically that's a flawed Prem in other words if your house is worth a million dollars this contract is costing you more than it might cost someone with a $200,000 normalize cross all all you're not you're going to normalize it that's what you would do let see if I am I'm explaining this in correctly okay who said what I'm sorry someone said something I can't listen to more than one I'm sorry that's not your fault okay let me got no this gentleman was next I'm going to come back to you hi Luis preso resident I own the business building and I have a business in town what I think is missing is option two and a half which is you continue to service the business Community you include carts and you go one time a week I'm all for the soft and hard dollar benefits associated with the modernization of of kind of how we collect trash but it goes from overpriced effectively for one and two to effectively eliminating the businesses as as any beneficiaries for the taxes that we pay so I'm trying to figure out I mean I would be for 2B which is once a week but give me a c that that would be something I think is a decent compromise for the business owners okay reasonable question and one of the problems when you bid is that if you put too many options in a bid number one you won't get biders and number two the state does not like to see more than four options in a bid that doesn't mean you can't but I don't recommend it going to your point however and I we have a question here and then a question there uh going to your point that's not my guess my answer to you is it's not an option we can consider it's it's either one two three or four that's it otherwise we throw everything out and start all over again and it'll be another year before we come back here again because that's the bidding process and that's that's just not an opt pardon the expression of an option but it's not an option I appreciate what you're saying but it's just not something we can do yeah um I you just said about the value of your house what about the number of occupants of a house like a house that only has one person living they have to pay the same as a house that has 15 people well that that's the nature of they don't put that much trash in I I don't disagree with you that is the nature of public tax dollars can we put this in the mix yeah no I understand what you're saying but tax dollars are based on assessed value of property it's not something I'm assessing here and nothing I can do about that and do any of these not include um businesses yes these two options number one right no numbers three and four okay I can't read that I'm sorry I apologize I'm sorry numbers these two columns do not have commercial at all so and so the prices are lower can we find this in print online somewhere I think we put this up once before didn't we I think we post it before it's not on there now oh it came down it's on it's on the website in the p with your response that's where I yeah okay on the council agenda short answer the question is can you get it online Michael you're saying we can that's the answer to your question I couldn't find it but we'll get it on the home page great thank you uh that gentleman in the suit or Sports Cod my name is Mark I will present the corner the for store uh we have probably n ten only one of the ten two restaurants one of the ten having dumer the technically um the government pick up the garbage now are you going to make regulation for them to have toay pay for the garbage because I own the building I don't own the business except in accounting business I don't do no garbage teic that's one okay or you going to pass it to us as a homeowner we currently paying 40, that's the first question the second question will be in in a holidays day if you have one pick up let's say July 4 it's a Thursday if you have to wait for the weeks to pick up another garbage you're going to have the same thing you show to us on the screen the garbage going to be overflow in order for you to do that you have to maybe require them if is there a holidays tomorrow they have to pick up the next days otherwise all these things you showing here I'm an accounting I understand this well but you need to make them pick up the garage next day otherwise if you have to wait two weeks and one pick up you're going to have garbage thank you okay so let me let me try to answer the question first okay before we jump down the next question uh you asked two questions the first question is if it's a commercial business with dumpsters that means it's privately collected today the commercial business is paying for that collection this doesn't change that at all businesses that have private collection today will maintain Private Collection tomorrow that's the first question if I understand the second part of your question pertain to especially if you have a holiday or something with a snow day or if we get snow ever again but if we have a snow day what happens if that collection is missed it would be the next morning so even if under even if you went to once a week collection if a day that your collection say was a Monday I'm just picking a day the holiday is a Monday which is more likely right then a Wednesday the holiday is on a Monday your garbage will be picked up on a Tuesday it would you wouldn't wait for the next collection day would be the next day oh I me I'm sorry one thing who's paying so now how you guys going to make regulation like no I do if you have a business you have to pay for garbage because I'm going to pass it to them anyway but if you help us doing that that' be better I don't I don't necessar have an answer that but okay get it hi yes I'm my name is Richardson um I'm a resident owner now personally I think option three and four should be up the window okay what three and four the option three and four should be up they should be off the table okay now as it stands right now to add to what gentleman said um having just one collection per month would mean a lot of Devastation with regards to the homeowners in terms of the amount garbage that's collected the amount of rodents that would be a would ATT trct and so therefore I think that once a week it's just not going to cut it okay s are you maybe I'm confused you said once a month you mean once a once a week sorry once a week I was conflating it with the bul collection sorry once a week and and and um and I mean normally I don't partic participate in these kind of forums but once I heard what was happening it just I just had to be here to just voice my opinion that's it thank you so let me try to answer and clarify I'll come back everyone's going to get a chance we got plenty of time here don't worry about it uh first once a week collection is fairly common around the state of New Jersey it's not common in essas county and certainly wouldn't work in newers or Irvington those towns some towns do have it South Orange Maplewood as I said that's up to the resident little bit South Orange Maplewood a little bit like West Orange but not completely some parts of it similar you have to remember one thing if you look at the cart size you will get more than three 32 gallon bags in that cart even though that's 96 gallons by volume right the same volume you'll get a lot more into that cart than three bags I've seen those loaded with five and six bags if you work on it just a little bit depending on what you put in of course the simple fact is you get a lot of volume with that there is discussion of provision if you needed an extra cart the township hasn't considered that but it's talking about it but hasn't made a decision that maybe that could be provided I can give you by one example in one Community I worked with in New Jersey that converted the carts they kept twice a week but they reduced the volume to 64 gallons and that's it they used to have unlimited collection they have never had an overflow problem they went from giving over 192 gallons of capacity to 64 it uh in that case was the two Princeton merged and they have a downtown that's very similar they don't collect commercial either by the way just so you know just lost that so I don't know if that answered your questions you gotta I can't get it recorded otherwise what about the smell I mean normally you know having garbage for so long especially now the days are hotter um and you know and a lot more activities in the summer more garbage accumulation so the lids tend to keep the odor down they tend to reduce odor better certainly better than a plastic bag and infinitely better whether it's once or twice a week better than a ripped plastic bag even if you put garbage on a Monday for collection on Tuesday in this heat that bag gets ripped it's going to smell and I I don't think I have to tell you that I think you've experienced that in the cart it's very rare you're going to get the order in my cart is just an example I get once a week because I'm too cheap to pay for twice a week because I have to pay myself and I can tell you when I open the lid I know what it smells like but I have a dog I won't go further um but with a lid down in this heat I don't smell anything that's from personal experience and believe me if you have a dog you know what I'm talking about hi uh Sharon zberg resident homeowner uh a couple of questions if you don't mind so one are these the actual cards that if we go with a bid that requires carts these are the cart sizes that are going to be required for the resid this is the cart these are the carts that are available so what what accommodations are being made with people with disabilities the elderly they're not going to be able to schlut these carts I'm sorry what do they do with their garbage now they're not using these things this is going to be impossible for them to put their garbage in and then take to the curb so what considerations are being done for them the township is considering a cart size smaller than this is the middle part right there are c sizes smaller and the town is at least looking at the possibility of offering that to people who need it on a limited basis and is the cost going to be to the resident to purchase the carts or is the township if it's a different size you mean yeah the town will be providing Parts okay second question who's enforcing the use of these bids who's enforcing the use of these when it comes to carbage day collection who's going to enforce that residents are in fact using these carts and not just dumping their garbage on the ground the garbage won't be picked up and that'll be a violation of Township ordinance it's got to be in the cart to be picked up to answer your question is there a grace period of any sort oh look this isn't something where you're going to go out on day one first of all on day one we've got to get the carts out there it's going to take time to get the carts the township is going to have to do a lot of Education of people if they choose that if the township choose that option to work even how to make the carts work even the simplest thing like the way this cart is parked right now if you're the house so to speak the homeowner that's wrong that's not the way it has to be at the curve but that's an easy thing there's actually a big arrow on the car it says this way but that all would be part of it and the education of if it's not in the cart it doesn't get picked up that's going to take time I can't speak to how the specific mechanic of time will work but it will be a great period it will be an education period it will be a notice period before anything happens in the way of a sence that's the way I would recommend it and that's the way every town has done it and every town that's done it that way has found it works really really well I just wanted that I currently use a trash can and I can't tell you how many rodings I still have coming to my property with my garbage in closed lid container so I'm not you know right now I'm seeing no benefit to including it in a hand but but you are one of the few people probably the point is these pictures indicate a lot of people are putting out in plastic if you're the only person in an area using another container the rodents are going to look around for everything let be aware that my street we all put in the containers because we live by the water and we get rodents from the water they come out and they still are able to have a feast I've not seen roding problems where I've seen carts and total I've probably seen a 100,000 of these things in use okay and I've not SE I'm not saying it's perfect yeah but it's better okay that's a 64 this is a 64 gallon cart that's 96 hi Daniel Garcia property owner here downtown that was going to be my question 96 uh 9664 of the sizes those are two of the sizes I couldn't get a smaller one here on time okay and what is a regular house household can is about 30 gallons typical garbage bag that you buy the black garbage bags or standard garbage is about 30 32 gallons okay so I think I mean ideally it would be great to stay with the two times per week collection but if it's if it's necessary go to once per week I think the carts become absolutely essential because you know we have and and a lot of the smaller Lots here on Main Street especially there is simply no room there's no space no land to put enough cans to accommodate a whole week's worth of garbage for the number of residents in those properties um so the carts and ideally the bigger cart would would become necessary if if it's if we need to go to once a week um as for the commercial collection are we looking at defining that a little bit more uh specifically I think you alluded to nutly that because there's there's a big difference between the office building where have a container and that will stay that way and these storefronts on Main Street where again it's it's the same issue there's nowhere to put um there's nowhere for the garbage to go uh there's no room for a container or and they're would they not be allowed to use these or would they be an exception because they're a small commercial How would how would we work on that it really depends on the option the township chooses to do exercise if exercise option three let's say option four in this case there'd be no commercial collection period it would be up to the business to make a provision to do that in some way no there's no final decision on that yet if it was option two where we' still provide commercial then there would be cards provided to the commercial uh you alluded to another community and nutly their bid for example uh is going to if the commercial business uses carts today I'm sorry has curbside today with a partments above it'll go to carts if it's a one of the situations where the town might pick up where there's a small dumpster then everybody goes to what they did so it's a much different structure because it's a different Community with a different physical structure then short answer is it depends on the option that's awarded okay so maybe it's more of a a point for for our Council but to consider that these mixed use properties there's just simply nowhere for these storefronts to put their garbage if it's not being collected so if the if the apartments are going to to to carts it would be a couple more carts that would be doable but to have no no option at all really would be a problem for them okay thank you thank you you talking about like a strip ball hold on let me get come back to yeah hi I'm going to go to option three and four again one it feels like an alternative kind of outside the box tax for businesses and two if we go with three or four and all residents need to use the cans which are great by the way and the businesses have to do their own thing if they have private collection then how do you enforce a business that doesn't want to use those cans and just puts the garbage out there the bid doesn't the town could do that by ordinance but the bid doesn't do that to answer your question except it doesn't do it Dan options three and four don't don't do that option two would because I love the the eological value but if they're still throwing garbage bags out there as a result it kind of undermine it undermines the premise I get it yeah but that could still be done a municipality can mandate that separately again the savings that we get from making the modifications here we then apply towards enforcement well again I go to your point parts are parts are something that help keep a community clean I can't argue with it yeah I like the carts but I don't want to be left out in the cold I understand something separate thank you sorry you've been very patient good afternoon um one of your statements was uh in West Orange currently we have bi-weekly pickups right I'm a Monday Thursday schedule twice a week right twice a week so when we're moving to once a week you're saying these larger garbage cans should be able to accommodate our trash what happens when you have an excess let's say you have an event and you're going to once a week you have an event at your home and it's only once a week and your day is a Monday which is my day you're saying that they'll come in a Tuesday to pick my trash up because that's the day that that my current trashes let's say that my day was a Monday and it's a holiday oh because of a holiday okay I'm sorry I'm sorry go ahead I'll miss that day you'll come Tuesday no problem but you're still going to have an overflow because it's once a week you're coming this is your proposal my next question is how many cans are we getting for home just one can a regular gar garbage and a and a recycle yes one on one that's the that's the Baseline and you also mentioned that currently they drive around looking for bulk bulk day for me is a Thursday and no one's driving around looking for bulk they're picking up trash and if there's bulk they pick it up at the same time they're not making a third trip what you are doing however is costing that when that happens and they have to use the same truck they're paying a higher rate to dispose of that garbage because it's charged as bulk and therefore it's costing the town extra money by them look they're still having to put then three men on a crew because they're sending that truck to do two jobs if bulk is by reservation whether it's weekly or monthly then they could send a separate truck with three people to just do those few bulk pickups verus the regular garbage it saves the town money and cuts pollution but they still have the bulk we still have whatever that bulk is what are what are they doing are we saving money because that there's just that one extra person on that truck that day they are saying you're saving money they're not you're I mean they are and so you are I'm not saving any money because my taxes have never gone down in the 28 years I've lived here and let me let me preface this again let me preface this again first of all I'm talking about the contract as I prefaced earlier this this is a Cost Containment no one is tell I'm not going to stand here and say no matter look I can cut you want me to save you tax dollars very easy throw out all the options and you all are on your own that will save you money that's not an option I know that's not an option get in the world it's not an option well not in West Orange but it is an option so as far as the going to your other question of do you get one can it's one in one the township elected officials and the administration have to make a decision in other in other communities a person wants a second can some communities allow that uh in one Community they charge $300 a year for a second can in another communities they don't charge anything it's up to your town but you there is nothing to per se prohibit you from getting a second can part if that's the direction the township wants to go if it's because you're having a party over the weekend some communities have made the decision Lyndon did this years ago if you want to throw out extra garbage you have to pay for it and if you're going to have a party then use reusable service Weare I'm not telling them you to do that I'm telling you it's up to the community to make that decision some communities have made that decision yeah yeah at the end of the day I just feel that the me the consumer the homeowner we sift regardless this is the most hairin idea I have heard which is carts for to once a week I love the cans they're beautiful what happens when they break now I have to pay an additional set of money to get a second C no the parts have a 10-year warranty if they break within 10 years they get replaced and the investment that you're making with the new trucks or Vehicles that's coming from taxpayer funds or no the huler is made the haulers have these this equipment the okay it's the hallers it's not coming back to me again no this not gonna go those numbers pay for the trucks those numbers all pay for the trucks you don't have to pay for them again take a deep breath that's at least something good like I said it's 28 years and never tax I haven't seen my taxes go down either I get it and let me tell you again you're not bound to option four no we're presenting I'm presenting to you to give you information that your Township is considering these options and they are looking at these two in particular but it's not guaranteed you're going to go to once a week I'm just telling you that there's no guarantee so just I I know I'm I'm nitpicking that's okay but if you pick up garbage once a week and you pick up the garbage twice a week the tonage is the same absolutely correct the same amount of par my language but basically that's what you're doing right like the se you move in the same crap the same numbers yes you are so you really want to stay so what I'm going with this you really want to stay to twice a week and for reasons I cook fish five times a week I have to run all the goddamn garbage when I come out the back and I have one of these pales on the side of the house with a cinder block and it to keep the road inide of it putting fish in your garbage every day I can understand that well you know the bottom line is I think people have to understand that and the point I was kind of making with that is it would be much clearer if you it's a it's a PowerPoint slide and you can't put everything on it but some good things would be to explain to people that okay you move the same amount of tonage and what the true cost of that tonage I understand the tonnage doesn't and you make a good point the tonnage does not change the reason twice a week costs more money is and it doesn't cost 100% more twice a week to once a week usually only saves a town 10 to 15% because the big cost is coming the first time yeah there you go that is what it says that's the that's the true analysis that should well we and I have said that in multiple meetings and on the record my point is and as I said to someone in the last meeting I don't know about you but for me if I could do the same thing and save 15% I'm going to go do it you don't have to make that your elected officials have a choice but do they understand that the question is oh yes we've had lots of meetings they're not speaking as elected officials however who's speaking for the elected offical no one tonight this is strictly for public information but they're hearing and and this was presented to them at a public meeting to make a point I make a point you made it it's all facts look at the numbers and look at what it is okay I don't come here to waste your time or Public's time you have made your point clearly I think I think where I'm going with this is especially the people who live in West Orange let me also tell you something all you people who have these expensive cars the Germans does the wire in with peanuts and the rodents like a peanut so all your Mercedes your Audi you have a little problem coming done thank you yes sir so the one the one question I had in none of these options did was bulk taken away entirely and I I've lived in other towns in Essex County where we never had bulk pickup and if we did we had a pay for so I'd be curious to see what's the savings if you just eliminated bulk alog together because I don't really think it's the town's responsibility to have to pick up a couch a toilet or anything of a sizable nature that I'm throwing away like it's my it's my responsibility I'll throw it away to answer your question that question I mean you can have another one but I answer that question it was talked about and in many communities where bulk has always been in existence the communities just decide we're not going to take on that fight because people get too upset over it I I in many communities what you're saying is the case I was ask and it is a big save in your next chart where you show all the town comparisons that doesn't we did not putl in there but I can tell you some do not pick it up Maple with South Orange Essex FS Verona I believe is one much much they don't if we didn't have vul I can't answer that because I don't have a number I know but shouldn't that question have been yes it was asked whether we wanted to do it as an option and the decision was made not to put it in as an option made that decision your Township that's by consensus that's a fault there's no fault it's just that was a decision the township the township made that decision Administration it was a consensus that me my job was to take Direction and put this together and I was told to leave bulking the cost savings that you can see somewhat but that's a big variable right you would bulk is a variable yeah know how much bulk you're picking up on a week I um I can tell you that on average we've done multiple surveys now of towns that have at least reduced bulk to reservation either monthly or weekly and we tend to find less than 10% at homes and I'm not counting a storm a hurricane totally different fees we found about uh like I said in one Community we went from 7700 homes that said they had bulk to 57 that may have gone up to a couple of hundred the highest we found is 10% of the homes and it's it can save money over time I won't argue with you I think it would save a lot of money over time that's if we don't have the I'll let you stand up here though at the public meeting and make the presentation because you'll be very unpopular go ahead why would I be unpopular save everybody money so the other question I have is you you said that there were rfps that were issued how many rfps were issued well like how many did you send out 22 rfps you mean the bids that were out the bid was posted on the website I believe don't quote me with absolute certainty but I believe four or five companies picked them up okay and out of the four only or five only four responded three responded one was disqualified one was disqualified is non-responsive because the bid required pricing on all four options well well how did their numbers compare to these just if you were to well they only bid one option they only bid so they only bid what you do today and it came in few hundred, cheaper okay so at the end of the day we have one qualified bid no two two qualified bids but you have one qualified low bidder and two qualified biders but one qualified low bidder so I come from a world where we buy a lot M millions of dollars worth packages right and when that happens you start over you cast The Wider net you can't accept two two is unacceptable because two says that one guy's talking to the next that's not the case here I can tell you uh I can also tell you that New Jersey Law does not allow that to happen in a public in a public bid unless a bid is received that is outside the estimate of what the town's budget would be the apparent low bidder if he's qualified and the qualifications are spelled out by law must be awarded the contract if the township were to throw out say I'm not awarding any of these Ops and they have to give a reason if they give a reason to adjust that a resident said I want to see another option and I'm not picking on you and just saying I want to see more options the state's going to say award the contract and they're going to order it because there's no basis for rejection on the premise you and a private company might say two prices is insufficient but the bid laws I didn't write them but law say if they're within the budget and they meet all the legal requirements you must award the contract I'm not a lawyer I'm just telling you that's my experience so you brought up another another point which was that you could essentially also save money by either capping the amount of garbage per household let's just say a two time a week basis right at 64 ounces 64 gallon sure cor gallons right yes what is that savings if you were to go from 96 to 64 on a two- day two two times again we didn't bid it specifically experientially we've seen communities drop about 15 to 20% now let me rephrase that not from the current price in other words that uh this number is not going down what it would mean is this number would be less keep the number from going up right right you're try it's it's gonna you're trying to keep this kind of increase and not this right that's the goal stay off and if you look here from what you're paying now if if you that's your goal right that's that's only a$ 1.3 million increase over five years that's not bad that's only a 15% increase but that's apples and orang well it's based on service that you demand hey it's very simple you want more service you pay more money so the other question I have is what what defines the commercial area or the commercial tenant from let's say the mixed use mixed mixed mixed use property on Main Street yeah West Orange has a couple of definitions you have a special improvement district qualify for that because this just says commercial so what is Comm the tant will have to identify with its own system they kind of went out and did a look on this uh the Sid district is one that's an easy one uh then you have other business around so it would be anything up to an inclusive say of a small Let me Give an example um I shouldn't pick on a name brand right see if I can do this right if you're a hot dog if big hot dog vendor uh and you have your own Market you probably have to have your own thumpster if you're a small um storefront coffee shop right I'm trying to pick it without picking on anyone uh that you're probably going to qualify as commercial also but anything that you sell something is defined as commercial I don't know if that really that that gets hard let me tell you that gets hard in every Community just so you know that's why many communities and you saw that one chart most of them just say if you're in a commercial business making money selling we're not picking you up right it's an easier definition that's the majority based on your list yeah all but most towns except for us one other town maybe three others yeah okay and then the last question is how much are the carts going to cost West cart price well they have they haven't decided to go to card so that will depend on two factors well but that's also I can give you what's on state contract yeah no no well that's why uh net savings after cart pre-art uh depends on the size of the carts do the math Yeah so basically what I'm trying to say is Parts can be purchased one of two different ways there you can bid them which I don't recommend it's not necessary actually three ways there's a state contract price and there's a natural what's called National Source well price so I've looked at some of these the basic number for a cart delivered to each homeowner by the cart company is between depending on the size of the cart between about 55 and $75 a cart that's all it so that for 90 Cent like say between 55 for the smaller carts the cart size doesn't change the price a whole heck of a lot but that includes for every cart delivery system I've ever seen whether the huler buys the carts we buy the carts whoever that includes construction of the cart because they come on big tractor trailers disassembled and delivery to every single home someone said earlier you need an education process I think was the question that was asked and that is so true because the cart company has to work with the T whoever it is to identify every single address to make sure everybody gets a c and that that can be a challenge so just one closing statement yeah based on everybody's comments in this room and what the feedback you're hearing I would ask that the administration of the Town Council reissue the bid based on some of our feedback and get real alternate numbers so that you have real numbers that we can all work with as a menu and choose yes we want this or no we don't but this package doesn't work that way I mean bitting doesn't work that way I do it with $300 million contracts you're doing it in a private sector you are not in the municipal Contracting law oh but but now you're asking us to put the bill for an the state does not allow a menu structure I'm putting it out there yeah I appreciate it but I'm just telling you it can't be done that way I'm just saying it's the state doesn't allow what you're asking for you're asking for us to effectively pick up a an allart menu another another Ro there to another you want with no bulk you're saying you want more options well as I said we'll be here next year talking about this then no because the state law requires 60 days for the office of State cont controller to review 60 days to go to bid we've already done this yeah these should be we could well it could very well come in next year at a higher bid if then one thing to disadvantage when you throw out a bid no no not really I saw that in P if you want to know the truth I saw that in Patterson uh we went the bid they threw out all bids the second number came in $20 million higher because there was no competition at that point the bidder realized it and the other bidder who did bid realized they didn't bid high enough and they left too much money on the table so the numbers have started to creep up in the end they came down but that took a very long time and it didn't work in another Community where they went to bid three times their bid went from 2.2 million to 9.9 million for one year so you don't always get what you be careful what you ask go ahead I'm sorry okay you've been awfully patient also thank you um my name is Michelle I'm a um West Orange resident um what I want to say is that um I work in Morris toown and Morris Township uses a card service and it actually does look really nice you know looks nice and clean um so my question I have a couple questions if if if we have a number of multif family homes in this town right yes will they receive one of each for each unit you're talking about like a four family home yeah yeah you would get four cards okay even if it's a two I'm picking four two family get two cards three family three cards four family whatever it's legally well and that's an interesting point you make when it's a legal multi family in communities that converted to carts all of a sudden a number of illegal Apartments were discovered because the landlords complained they only got one cart and said we're multif family and they said Oh no you're not we why you come down and talk to us and that did discover a number of illegal apartments and communities that's a good point Thank you and um I think this was brought up before like some households there are only you know a couple people in the household some households have a whole lot of people in the household now for those households they of course they're going to have more garbage now if they say like look this isn't sufficient for this isn't sufficient for us what um will they have the option of SLP purchasing SL renting another cart the final decision as to how to get that cart hasn't been decided but the answer is that as I understand it the township is leaning in that direction yes okay and um and the last one the 64 gallon can you just give some kind oh that's a 64 and that's 90 something is that it okay right there all right so you're talking about significant volum this you're trying the different parts and you know that's how they're balanced they are counterbalanced to be easy to move thank you hi again um question uh Essex Green I'm sorry say one more time6 green yes shopping center are they on the schedule for pickup with garbage or do they do their own garbage collection my understanding they do their own they do their own yeah because big shopping centers almost always do their own for a lot of reasons I'm concerned about that but here's the other thing so I live near a park okay and there's open crash receptacles that get filled by people who miss their garbage Deb which is illegal but go ahead and so the garbage is overflowing and hence the rodents and so you had shown pictures earlier in your presentation of open receptical garbage is the township going to then go ahead and replace all those open receptacles with closed receptacle like what's what's the plan with Parks I I don't have an answer to your question because it wasn't part of the bid uh I know some communities have gotten grants to put in compacting sealed containers that's certainly something that can be looked at those you may have seen them some of are called big bellies some of them are called I forget something else and they're they're fairly effective but to go to your first point if a resident is using a litter receptacle like this for household garbage that is illegal it's called illegal dumping if they dump 32 gallons or more and they're caught under New Jersey Law first offense is a $1,000 fine confiscation of the vehicle that was used to transport it in community service now tough catching them yeah and tough to enforce yeah it has been enforced Newark has been very aggressive at enforcing that law over the years and it's been on the books for a long time other town you would have to look at that but to answer your question the township would have to look at that it's not part of the bid these will be serviced by the contractor that are there now the litter baskets would still be serviced under the contract but but there's there was nothing in a bit there nothing for me to look at because I was nothing that was asked for okay certainly something to raise with your elected officies one last question so if if we switch to a c system yeah what happens with cart theft good question there was actually a cartoon in the paper today about that but anyway the short answer is these the way this is designed for provision of carts is that the carts would be purchased with what's called an RFID tag um that's a radio frequency tag and essentially the way these work in most communities the tag not only has an address tag in it so let's I'm just picking an address uh but they are what we call geospatially oriented in other words the RFID tag is exactly linked to where on a global math MAP your house would be so if it's stolen obviously if it is caught somewhere else when the truck goes to pick it up when the huler goes to get it it's going to read it and it's going to say this isn't the right part this doesn't belong here but it will say where it does belong now will that stop anything completely I don't know of any system on the planet that can stop anything completely but it does help a great deal in C theft prevention just want to it no good questions um one more question yes um I I think one of our neighbors brought this up before like there there are certain times where you'll have like an abundance of garbage like let's say Christmas you have like you know you have people over you have all of this garbage and there if we go to the once once a week pickup that that's really tough um how and I'm sure we we wouldn't be the only people that that have those issues what do other towns do or how do you every Community handles this differently there you know I know everybody wants to hear what does everybody else do when isn't there a standard and don't we just all have this standard system there's no such thing the standard is what your community wants and that's what this is designed to try to accommodate the for issue of a holiday sometimes that comes down to people having to adjust how they do their holidays and they may have to hold the garbage longer in some communities that's what they do hold it in your garage you know and don't do that in other communities they may have a special pickup structure after holidays this bid didn't anticipate that but that's what other communities might do every Community does it differently okay okay thank you I wish I could say they were all the same my life would be a lot easier another question for you go ahead uh are there communities that are doing any uh composting uh programs uh yes uh there are several communities it's it's complicated in New Jersey this goes back down to it's very hard in New Jersey to build a compost site to take the food okay but in West Orange for example there are there is a company I know that Services here they're not uncontracted a town in any way uh there is one locally called Java compost I'm not endorsing them I'm just telling you it exists uh residents can hire them to come to the house every week and pick up their food for composting that can be done there is a fee to that I don't know their fee structure completely in other communities there may be more than one I know there are a couple startups that are trying they take it either to to Elizabeth or it goes to Sussex County to a food waste composting operation that's rarely combined with regular trash we've done that in bids before I've worked on bids with that and the pricing we received uh for the collection of the food separately was just way too high at this point in time the other question I have um were there any requirements in the RFP to provide hybrid or energy efficient vehicles to reduce prohibited by state law because and the reason is because if you require that the only companies that can provide that are large companies y Nar okay thanks i' would love to be able to do it but I'm not uh and to you I'm not telling you to redo this but what I feel cheated of is a little bit more detailed and I think it reminds me of when I used to do planning I used to look at the management and I say Sammy what do you want blue shirt or a pink shirt and I could do an RFP I'll put an RFI out there get an RFP back and I'll make it the blue shirt okay when I look at those numbers and look at what you're presenting here what you're basically saying to me is option a option b but I really want P just to let you know a is over here here's what it cost little bit more detail the true cost the bondage what it would cost I think that would help you guys to make the decision but I think and I feel the council sometimes does is don't bother me with facts My Mind Is Made Up well hold on let me just finish and and so this the public hearing and I think people should understand that that need a little bit more detail to what presenting to make a decision and if everybody's making a decision of what you have we're making very poor decision well let me just answer that a little bit by saying and then next person come up one this the fact is Council Members can't really respond to you as council members tonight secondly they're prohibited because it's not a council meeting it's a public information s uh the other the other thing I just want to tell you this is probably before the township committee I think I've gone through free what we were going to do but conceptually post what we did do at least three maybe four different presentations I lost count at a certain point so just In fairness to the township committee and to anyone else in this town in the administration prior to going to bid this was discussed and presented at a couple of public meetings as these are the options being considered nothing was done in a vacuum I can say that this has been a very public process that's all I can really speak to on that right now I apologize if these questions have already been asked um where would the carts be located I live on a street where there are a number of multi family homes without driveways and they barely have space to have their regularized trash can stored when they're not at curbside so there's no way three of those would fit on my neighbor's property there are two questions it's a good question I can tell you in other Urban are more urban setting because what you're talking about is a small apartment type houses right next to each other which we would call Urban and in Baltimore this turns to work very well which is about the same we were talking about they are doing carts throughout the city Newark is putting in carts in Newark throughout the city slowly for their recycling at least uh it they would have to be kept depending on the structure of the building I can't ask your question with an absolute it would be kept where's your garbage can today you know I'm asking rhetorically I'm not asking I don't really ask expect an answer right but it would have to be kept where the can is today and the township would have to move either an ordinance or anything else necessary to let you do that yeah I know for a fact that three of these would not fit at my neighbor's home which is a legal three family home good question one of questions I don't have any answer that's a good question has is a rat problem being addressed it's horrible with two pickups and the trash along Valley Street just accumulates by Luna stage that accumulates and it's not maintained with two pickups a week M we're being I mean rats sometimes walk boldly during during the day that's not going to get better is it going to be better addressed well again you're not bound to once a week number one number two the carts are one of the steps for addressing the rodents because carts reduce rodent problems in any Community they've been used in carts are an effective redu elimination I'm not telling you there's any system in the world that can eliminate threats but it will reduce them it everywhere they're being used they have been reduced all right with if you were to go to a one-day pickup right now with two days if our pickup Day falls on a holiday we have the second to the next day you'd be picked up just automatically yeah yeah that's that's true anywhere where there's once a week by the way whenever the the pickup is on a holiday it always goes the next day not next collection day the next day that's probably the biggest benefit that I in the change is that we don't have to wait until the next business day so I'm Megan Brill with the uh Alliance and I I got to spend a little bit of time with the administration and Wayne I thank you very much for that um pleasure one of the questions that I still have is um I was very glad to see that the town was going to pick up the garbage that's all Main Street and in Pleasantdale Center and all all of that that that really isn't going to change we do have that the problem of people dumping their household garbage or cleaning out their car and then throwing it in our garbage cans that are down town and that's probably not going to change the thing that is of concern for us is excluding some of the business Community um that does in private hall now um is that they're going to pick up their bag of garbage and then throw it in a public camp and downtown is definitely going to have to watch that as well as the township but the I love the idea of including or going out forbid to include the smaller businesses that are really just making you know a can a week or not even my husband's business doesn't even make that kind of garbage in a week but um so I definitely think that that's a consideration that the council and the administration should really look at that we can't just leave the entire business Community out to dry especially if um I know that we're on a month-to month and this is going to have to happen probably quicker than uh we would want and maybe not as quickly as Town wants but um I I definitely like that idea that the small mixed use properties that aren't making a ton of garbage um would get picked up in some RFP in the future my question uh for I guess personally the business that we own on Main Street is a small storefront and then three apartments above we definitely would not need the three garbage cans for each one of our tenants um is it tagged to the location or is it tagged to apartment one apartment two apartment three geospace to the address so so if it's 52 Main Street and there are three apartments above 52 Main Street the can goes to 52 M okay all right um and then just so that I understand there are three different sizes of cans and three different sizes of recycling cans the recycling can is typically recommend that's the blue one in this case just because blue is always used for that uh in a you have a single stream collection system which means you can put cans bottles and paper together right you all hopefully all know that right the single stream system is almost always geared to a 96 gallon cart because the fiber the cardboard even when you collapse it we found in a lot of studies anything smaller just isn't sufficient for someone to go on that for the collection it just doesn't work but there're still 32 64 96 there actually are many sizes but the three being considered and I'm not sure what the final decision will be are 3264 96 for the garbage I would really strongly suggest you not consider anything smaller than 96 for single stream recycling because you'll find simply you don't have the capacity okay all right and then there are strips um within the you know the downtown Corridor and even all over town that really can't handle um the space and I think that somebody was talking about that that what do we do if we can't fit you have five stores in a strip they don't have a dumpster M and well I guess if we're excluding them it doesn't matter yeah I mean if you're an option four that's not a discussion okay all right then my last question is can you just explain um about the town owns the garbage or the contractor recycl okay yeah apolog yeah I should have done that and I apologize I left that out under your current system the contractor takes all the risk and if there is any benefit any benefit to the recycling that's collected in this day and age in the past 5 to six years it's mostly been risk and not benefit well if you ask the contractor to take all the risk then the contractor will bump the price up to avoid that risk to the highest possible and worst possible number what we're starting to see towns do is say you know the way it used to be is we owned it and we marketed it that would be a separate RFP we'd have to do but the way it's working today and we're talking to facilities I was just with all the facilities this morning where the risk is shared and the reward is shared and the pricing changes according to the market so if next month the market gets better we can only hope then your price might go down and so it does kind of this on a monthly basis in the market you as a town would still prepare a budget against the worst of things because you don't want to get caught short but when things get better and we've seen this in other communities uh one Community recently went from in a big Community they were at 20,000 a month in cost they dropped to 10 that's great that's a savings but under this option here these options you don't get that the advantage of these options is from a budget standpoint it's flat you don't have to think about this at all there's no thinking involved this is more work this depending on private sector some private sector companies are definitely moving in this direction because of what they make if they do a lot of cardboard when we doing a lot of cardboard you definitely want this so does I I hope that answers your question this a little more risk but this has higher cost that's it that's the easiest way to think about it and I I guess I have two experiences with bulk pickups we have a lot of bulk that happens downtown and especially in my neighborhood and actually I have the uh our disposal guy cell phone which is the best number to have because he I could get him and say you missed something or you came back to get but I can tell you that especially in our downtown neighborhood and at my home up by uh the The JCC that um the supervisor rides around the neighborhood follows the garbage truck and or the garbage truck calls him and says there's couch you know on Oak Crush Road you have to go get it and that's how they find out where the bulk is um in addition to reservations that get called into the health department at least that's my experience with uh two parts of town um so we don't we don't take reservations as of today yeah not no only refrigerators and electronics last question I um I don't believe you in the event that the carts are selected yeah how towns and residents getting rid of their existing plastic bins yeah and is there a program where we could prevent throwing them into a landfill have you seen any we we have done that yeah we have done that um your plastic cans whatever you have today if you want to get rid of them uh they are typ without being too nuts it's called Richard plastic and other communities what they've done is then you have the convenience center in town on Mount Pleasant they brought rolloffs in residents could fill them up and they go to a recycling Market it's not worth anything but it has minimized the landfilling of them it can be done I don't see why it couldn't be done here if we go that route yes um a couple questions sure um are these bids from new companies or is any of them from like the company that we use right now to the low the apparent low bidder is the company you currently have okay um because when they pick up the garbage twice a week the garbage and the recycling especially on my block there's always recycling and garbage still on the street and they're picking it up twice a week so I just I'm not convinced that if we're shifting to once a week they're going to do a better job and make it need not like that it's more like hands in that's why it's on the street but it's like they lift the cans into or the the the bins and pour in whatever falls out they don't pick up and so it's Sav and they're doing this twice a week and they they can't keep it's like they can't keep up with the amount of recycling or whatever that we have now so when you want to shift to once a week I feel like it's going to be worse again you're not bound to once a week we number one and number two remember a recycling cart is going to be litted and it's going to reduce what spills out of the truck when you're picking up that blue bucket now granted somebody had a party uh when this thing was set up but or they drink an awful lot of water the that can like that which is the typical recycling can right that can the wind blows everything's coming out of the can it's not the wind it's them and if they pick it up it's going to fall now should they pick it up I can't they shouldn't most bids require that that's a complaint you should file that cart I don't care which color blue you want you're going to get a lot less garbage and I a lot less spillage and I know from my own experience because we have two recycling carts that we get in our community two uh one for paper we do it differently but one for paper one for cans of bottles and almost never do I see anything on the side of the road okay um I know some towns some places have like humanless garbage garbage trucks is that an option that I'm sorry say it again they have like automated garbage like there's not a garbage man that comes and lifts the can into the truck the truck picks up the can and dumps itself that's this one here sure that's what you're talking about sure person doesn't get out of the truck the driver is here he has a robotic arm that won't work in every part of this town because a car is being parked on the street if there's on street parking this truck doesn't work if there's on street parking this truck works okay still can have a cart it's just that they have to get off the truck to get to the cart okay thank you thank you hello sir how you doing uh Bill ruford I'm here as a resident you're not wearing a suit and that's unusual for me to see hey uh and I do have to go because the storm's coming with regard to the carts yes sir um and I apologize if this is already been asked um is the bid agnostic to where we purchase the carts from so is there an opportunity to um you know I you know find another brand another manufacturer that could possibly sell the carts at a cheaper price you absolutely can do anything you want to get carts from any manufacturer all of these carts no matter who makes them are made to a specific standard okay the ASM they call it standard and that standard says that all these carts whoever makes them have to be able to be picked up by every truck got it so it doesn't matter there are four four on Source well there are at least three on state contract these happen to be a brand called faer uh the ones in that picture happen to be by rarig there's a company IPM they they're gonna I couldn't tell you they'll look a whole lot different but you are free to pick any cart you like and and uh and this is the final question for me is there an advantage to uh you know one style over the other or you know and U you know that could also be cost uh is there a wide range in the cost or are there other advantages the only way you can range let me rephrase that there are two things that will add cost to these carts substantially if you want a bare resistant cart which they do actually make today they're much heavier they're very expensive if you want a cart that has locking Lids to try to keep raccoons I I don't think they work all that the raccoons are pretty darn smart but if you want to keep raccoons out that will add cost to the cart we have not specified anything I have not specified anything as to what cart design has to be other than they must meet this standard the federal standard so yeah you can do whatever you like with that thank you very much thank you very much question on option two where the scenario where we have carts and twice a week pickup have you seen in other communities that have something similar have they considered doing obviously not for homes but for multi family mix use property going to fewer than one per unit in other words for a 12 12 unit building I mean if you gave me 12 of these 96 you know right I don't need it for for for twice a week pickup it's too much interestingly so the comments we've gotten so far to answer your question are we want more cards but there's absolutely no reason you couldn't have fewer carts okay just I mean you know as a way to save money both on carts and on labor again this for the two week uh twice a week option um is that something I mean do other communities yeah consider this Poss absolutely they usually let the multif family if it's a situation where there are carts they have that discussion at the time they're getting ready to do the cart distribution and say listen I need three of these or four whatever the number is you know why why give me more than I need because there will be carts always in reserve you have to order more than you need tomorrow in case they do break and they have to be held and you know repaired uh so no that that's not an issue saying you want fewer will probably not upset anybody okay thank you hello again full of questions um do all the options take into consideration yard garbage the brown paper bags with your leaves and your yard debris nothing is is in here for that because that's a separate T the town collect your your heart debris for leaves and such otherwise in terms of things like uh if you have grass for example this is not take into account a separate collection for grass for vegetative because your current system does not take into account a separate collection for grass collection it does in a sense only with what the town does today in other words this bid does not do anything with that separately okay no but if we I mean we have it in the town if you're supposed to take the the refuses from the yard and stuff the town picks up the brush it gets picked up by the garbage trucks yes if it's brush at the curb to go out for garbage it's still going to go out for garbage it would have to be in the cart though but to be in the car okay I'm sorry if I misunderstood your question I apologize hi my name is Gerald sh I have business on Main Street and I don't so much have a question for you but rather more of a statement for the council members I'm able to go ahead give some thoughts on it this is not the way to support small local business we're slowly being nickel and dimed with additional fees taxes and existing service reductions and for some time now all this adds up we p pay more than our fair share through current taxes who do not put any burden on the tremendous board of education budget and most of the large and small businesses in town are very supportive of the town when they're asked for help and all of this is without the ability to vote for who makes these decisions why do you think it's okay to pass this additional burden on to us are we prepared to handle this alone any better than the common household in town the continued pickup of mostly one and rarely two cans of garbage should continue to be supported by the entire Township is what's fair thank you hi my name resident I just had a question did you guys look at the option to have two times per week pickup but then one week once a month bulk to try to eliminate the cost to try to like be like a middle ground no that was a question somewhat has been asked two times per week the only option with was once a week with reservation the difference between this option two times per week and this option the differences are one is with parts your current system has no reservation component you don't make a reservation they just drive around pick up the bulk as was stated earlier the only option here was weekly by reservation okay that's there isn't there isn't a fifth option or a subset option in here to answer your question okay I was a little unclear on the leaf business what are they G will I be able to put a bag of leaves in this and put it down leaves are a separate collection that is done in the fall by the township leaves are collected and taken to the Compost Facility two big huge bags of yard stuff in my front yard right now and I know I usually I'll just call the town and say I've got it and they'll come get it the question is if I have one of these humongous things why why don't I just throw it in there since since I own are you're talking about this time of year or in the fall this time well the town doesn't really have as far as I understand it a set mandate for grass or anything else to recycle it right we just don't pick up anything in brown leaf bags that's done by DPW only in the spring up until like May sometime and then again nothing is changing so I'll just put all my leaf stuff in a black plat leaves in the leaves in the fall leaves in the fall must be put out for recycling or kept on your property talk about fall thank you leaves are never permitted in the leaves are not permitted in the garden I think I um I'm gonna see if I'm I'm helping clarify what they're saying okay we we put our leaves out to the curb which we all know that's part of our collection leaves in the fall we put out to the curve where they pick up you know November December then there's like yard clippings like you moow you on and you have some clippings and you have some leaves so you put that in your garbage bag and then or you put it out to the curb and they currently come and just put it in in the truck with the rest of your garbage correct what they're asking is can you take those clippings like that and other little things you may have in the yard and stick it in one of those garbage cans exactly what you're supposed to do with it yeah now I would recommend to you which has nothing to do with the bid get a mulching mower or mulch the grass and not put it in the garbage but there is currently no mandate that you do that go ahead you have one question please what is the time frame for the new procedure to rule out to do an award is up asking um it's really up to the township committee to decide if they're going to award the contract the administration will make a recommendation I don't have an answer for you tonight I don't know oh it was up to me it'd be done very quickly but nothing is ever up to me okay I don't get to make decisions which is probably a good thing you got they can't hear you on the mic it records you it'll record you I just have not not a commment a question two questions first you weren't properly introduced I don't I know heard your name but I don't know are you with a consulting firm oh I'm sorry where where is that firm located and then second um I'm very interested and curious about this process uh we just heard for the first time that there's been multiple meetings uh this is the first one we heard about so prior to this meeting how was that advertised uh I'll answer your second question first I have nothing to do with advertising the meetings or running the town so that would be how your town does public meeting announcements you have to look that process up uh the first question I can answer more easily since I know who I am at least I think my name is Wayne defo I have a company called defo Associates and I am a consultant to answer your question and I'm retained Often by communities to write bid specifications and take them through the bidding process where where is it located I'm sorry I'm in Somerset County New Jersey and I apologize I was rude I should have said that earlier don't know his name but this gent has said before my name is Testa by the way I live on Terry arban Road I own cast realter I manage a laot property is in town okay uh bulk If you eliminate that you save a lot but you say you didn't study you didn't know so how you doing your job if you can didn't do that that's a big cost Obed by landlords or by the commercial people they'll save the town a l money I don't mind paying for it he knows we put a l out we should not put a burden to others you guys I can't answer your question on that other than to say bulk isn't expense uh commercial and Industrial bulk is clearly their responsibility but bulk is an issue I you know this this bid anticipates and tries to contain bulk costs in these uh these two options by reducing its frequency and requiring a reservation you're right I mean I can't answer you it's clearly cost money to pick up both there's no debate but you're the consultant you should have studied that should have presented it you said you don't work so how come you don't do it because that's not what the town asked me to write a BP I can only write what I'm told the write for the options let me just comment on that so my position from from the administration side I'm Michael fono director of the health department and we oversee the solid waste contract if we eliminated bulk with all the multif family rental dwellings that we have in this town there would be garbage everywhere how would we get rid of when a tenant moves out and lines a curb up with garbage I have one inspector right now doing all this enforcement we're trying to fill positions it would be a nightmare if we eliminated bolk collection entirely but but from an enforcement standpoint it would be it would be a nightmare I'm just telling you it's it's it would be a cost savings but there would be a lot of problems and let me just interject TR to keep it without going too much of a back and forth because we're not trying to have a debate just a discussion every service that's cut will save money but every time you cut something there's a consequence just like for every investment there's a consequence the decision was made to not eliminate po now that decision has been made in many communities around the state this is not unique you guys really aren't I know you think you're totally unique but most communes have these very same discussions all the time and I get it I get it if I want to put out folk where I live I pay I have to call a hauler pay a price and pay for it uh I get that you know but my community provides no Services you guys get an abundance of services you may not think so but you do you receive a huge level of service for in this town for this service okay for this service uh other communities don't I don't have an answer to you because we didn't separate out the price structure how do we know how sayal number ofing I I can't answer your question I don't have a number we'd have to bid it with bulk as a separate number I've done that in communities but I was also tell you it's not as accurate as you think it is because most haulers know to set that out I'm AER and I'm gonna go around 24,000 I don't know if I answer his question personally I did I answer your question at all I have another question but let you have another question okay go ahead uh m b brought it up about small business not creating a lot of garbage have a m a lot of multi-us buildings that don't create as much as a resident or one things of What the residents create how do you differ between commercial residential where they puted and how you going to enforce it that's going to be up to Township to have an enforcement person to enforce that rule as I said in this chart one inspector is having problems forcing that I didn't write a B for inspectors they cannot do it I didn't write a bid for inspectors um you know I have recommended and I have done this in multiple presentations that the township will have to staff up if it makes changes to do more enforcement I've made that recommendation to Township Council and I've made it on multiple occasions I can make a recommendation I have seen other towns do it it works well I have seen other towns not do it I can't tell you what this town will do as far as the commercial complaint we can see that most communities have stopped collecting commercial It's Not Unusual or they've never had and no one want no one wants to see a cut and service I don't know of anyone on the planet that wants to see their services cut for anything I get that you I get that would you tell me was commercial was not commercial would you specify commercial is usually defined in the bid by someone who is doing a retail establishment or wholesale establishment there's a there's a specific defition where it's essentially a for-profit business being sold with retail or restaurant Etc it's to find out typically in both your ordinance and in the bid we have mixed us we have closed stores we garbage you have apartment above you're talking let me finish please let me finish say it one more time I'm sorry let me finish listen oh I'm sorry I thought you were finished I apad okay there are small stores don't produce much garbage she have a store she don't produce any garbage she's my neighbor the check don't produce any garbage you GNA call them commercial tell them to get their own it's not going to work out because they're going to put in the tenas garbage how you going to know they put it there and how you going to enforce it you have four beans on the side of the building or in the back the small business produce very little garbage they're going to throw it there how you enforce it how do you know they hired a new person to take it that's going to be up to the township to work out I mean it's not relevant it's not relevant in a sense of my analyzing a bid that's up to the township to make that decision I can't answer your question because I don't run the township to the top do I I strongly recommend I've been in town 27 years I own a lab business mixed use single use residential I manage a lot properties if you live it the way it is and increase your cost would be much beneficial for the land Road and for everybody else done what the way you go it create a lot of confusion enforcement problems and first who put this garbage where there's L Builders who cannot take this side of a camp in front of the building on the side take mine we have a hard time putting that little kind that takes 30 gallon you put this where you going to put it I don't know so want have problems you creating problems to solve little things bringing big problems to town leave it the way it is increase your cost and move on okay that's what I because right then we have somebody brought about rats mice rodents we have pizza place we have restaurants we have coffee shops we see rats I don't have any food the music store don't have any food but we see all the mic coming all the way to us we see them walking all over which twice a week once a week we going have worse problems I recommend you don't do it but up to you again we have two choices so the idea is to try to use this to to start the process you know the r problems yeah New York City has started mandating containerization many communities have I mean the pictures really tell the story I mean you know you maybe 10 blocks away from this it's not going to matter it's disgusting this is what's going to H you leave garbage late New York City is containerizing everything and let me tell you want to talk about a challenge it's a challenge and New York City rats are I swear I swear they're bigger than every rat on the planet but they are moving in that direction because the first step to to control rats isn't to kill them it's to take away their food source excuse me one sec before you U answer question or ask question my name's Pete maraldo for the record of the assistant business administrator we have less than eight minutes to go is a public safety announcement there's a big storm coming so I we want to end at 8:30 the other thing I want to remind everybody is that if anybody in the audience at home or in in here if you have any further questions you can contact us through email at healthde T West orange.org we would like to get all your questions so that we can formulate and present to the council so that when we do make the decision so any questions you may have um or or concerns please go to healthde at West orange.org DPP Health healthde West orange.org okay okay this meeting is being recorded we will be placing it on the website our town website and um and we will we will post that information up there for you and we could also post we also post our presentations up here we will also post that okay Mr SC if I may add avable at west.org this meeting and the um presentation Mr def's presentation as Mrs scalo mentioned will be available at West orange.org uh it will be posted within 24 to 48 hours most likely tomorrow thank you tell you just took the mic away from me I'm sorry when you just say the Mee and ended no no no no we we we just we're just making sure really raining out there it's raining and and there's a bad there's a very bad storm coming so for your safety one final comment yeah I am for bins don't get me wrong okay but I think the analysis need a little bit more detail it's somewhat fled and skew and I'm not pointing fingers but go back and look at it you can't sell me something that you don't provide me a lot of details with you ask me to run and jump off the cliff without telling me if there's water in the food I I got a little problem with that and again we have a town that's nice and clean and you know I can do with this but I can't do picking up garbage a week that just doesn't work and and to the point you make about Baltimore earlier they did try The Bu where you call and make a reservation for the bulk and they went back to because there wasn't enough people calling in to make reservation they went back to put the bulk out with the garbage so so it it plays both ways but the point now I'm making is you include bulk over there but you have no details we don't know and I I granted I give you that we don't know how much bulk is being put out on a t it's not you would have to put reservation inally and then take it back off but the rest of the analysis need for us for me I think it need and I will say bulk with reservation will start to give you the data you're looking for five minutes more questions we want to thank everybody for coming tonight including our audience on Zoom so we appreciate thank you very much and have a good evening thank you