[Music] [Music] [Music] a [Music] good evening West Orange Welcome to our Tuesday March 26th uh regularly scheduled council meeting uh because we're getting started just a minute or two late I want to jump right into it so Madam clerk this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman celino present councilwoman gber Michael present councilwoman Scarpa present councilwoman Williams present council president Rutherford here mayor McCartney so I would like to begin by inviting our uh new police officers um and our mayor uh up to the podium to swear them in you have a Bible very important job it's all right Madam M don't you need a [Music] microphone so good evening every is that good evening I didn't hear anything that's on good evening everyone we're here this evening to welcome two new police officers to the force and to our Township keep us safe and uh we praise you and honor you this evening so please repeat after me I state your name I'm Al do solemnly swear do solemn swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States I support the Constitution of and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and that I will bear true faith and Allegiance their true fa to the same same and to the governments established in the United States and in this state under the authority of the people I do further solemnly swear I Solly swear that I will Faithfully I will faithfully impartially and justly perform and justly perform all of the duties of the office all the duties of the office according to the best of my ability so help me [Music] go I state your name I Daniel cig do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and that I will bear true faith and Allegiance and that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same to the same and to the governments established in the United States and to the governments establish in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people I do further solemnly swear I do further solemnly swear that I will Faithfully that I will faithfully impartially impartially and justly perform and justly perform all the duties of the office all the duties of the office according to the best of my ab ability according to the best of my so help me go conratulations we have officer Daniel castiglia and Melanie [Music] Toronto one more one more look this one thank you [Music] next we are going to acknowledge the youth Advisory Board of the nille badlani foundation uh for their outstanding work uh with Bill s 2789 and a 3793 the assembly and Senate um is the mayor are you going to do the proclamation let's thank you mayor so good evening thank you s g is here also so thank you for the Youth Advisory Group uh they just presented also at our uh Earth hour launch last Thursday so we welcome you uh to do that and and just thank you for your advocacy so whereas the nille badani foundation's youth Advisory Board helped pass a bill that require New Jersey permit permitted drivers under the age of 21 to complete 50 practice hours including 10 hours after dark New Jersey was one of only three states that hold had no practice hours required for new drivers and the youth advisory board's advocacy Journey began with a group of students who initiated Outreach to legislators via email and phone calls in 2020 laying the foundation for this campaign and whereas in the Years progressed subsequent cohorts of the youth Advisory board members spanning four graduating class join the effort U ensuing continuity and momentum in advancing their cause and whereas this approach undertaken by the youth Advisory board members involved persistence engagement with Transportation committee members and other legislators emphasizing the life-saving impact of the proposed legislation which directly impact them this sustained effort led to the bills being posted for consideration facilitated by numerous emails and calls to the transportation committee chairs on both the Senate and assembly sides and whereas the youth Advisory Board testified before the assembly transportation and independent author authorties Committee in support of Bill a 3793 on January 19 2023 and the Senate Transportation Committee in support of Bill s 2789 on February 9th 2023 and both bills were unanimously passed in their respective committees congratulations and whereas Bill a 3793 was referred to the assembly committee development and Affairs committee and Bill s 2789 to the Senate budget and Appropriations Committee with continued Outreach to committee chairs to the bills to be heard culminating in the SBA the uh Senate budget Appropriations Committee hearing on November 3rd 20123 and a hearing on December 11th 2023 from the assembly uh Community Development Affairs committee again both bills passed unanimously in the respective committees and we're as the successful passage of both bills on the Senate and assembly floors occurred on December 11th 2023 and December 21st 2023 respectively the students cast the vote on each floor by pushing the button in support of the bill on behalf of the primary sponsors Senator Cruz Perez and assemblyman Dan Benson and whereas Bill a 3793 and Bill s 2789 were signed bed into law by Governor Murphy on January 8th 2024 both bills will be implemented through New Jersey motor vehicles in February 2025 so now therefore be it resolved that I Susan McCartney and the West Orange Town Council to hereby recognize our students here rehea tatina Olivia uh ban rice J josn Chris Adon uh Marjorie Michael David and April along with their dedicated adviser Eugene Pinkney for the UN inspirational for the inspirational effort and commitment to making the state of New Jersey and our community a safer place just yeah we can give them the proclamation and then they'll because they're all up now so come on you guys stand up front let's get a good picture together congratulations can we get you guys to join us up here yep can we get you guys to join us yep your chair great job missing some thank you herebody look this way thank you guys can go this way too thank you thank you so much important work all and I just found out they're not all seniors so we look forward to seeing them back again hey good evening everyone I'm just going to keep this very short because mayor McCartney already said what I was going to say so uh even then I just kind of want you to give a little bit of a background of how we started this program and for those of uh you who don't know traffic crashes are the leading cause of death in teens just in 2021 there were 28,000 crashes that involved uh 16 to 20 years old so who better to advocate for safety for young drivers than the team themselves and so we started this program in West Orange High School um uh to empower them to make a difference in the communities and to give them a platform to express their ideas on traffic safety improvements since then we have expanded the program now to other schools in uh Burlington City and Indian Hills High School and this is one of the programs that really you know gives them an opportunity to show their leadership and their civic engagement as well so I'm going to pass the floor to the students to talk about the experience in Trenton as well as some of the initiatives that they have spearheaded to keep the PE safe hello I'm Bryce m I'm the president of our youth Advisory Board this year and last year I was a chairman of our policy committee so just a little bit about us our entire goal every single year is just to make a difference in our community we're trying specifically to make a difference in all traffic related areas we want to stop debts we want to get that number down to zero as we're starting to work on now and we just want to make a change so as the chairman of the Poli policy committee I started out uh last year being my first year in the club and I went to testify for the first time on both the assembly and the Senate side so at the time I didn't really know what I was what I was doing I was just up there kind of advocating for something that I felt passionate about but I really had no idea what I was doing what I was advocating for so now as a president this year I started to gain more of an understanding about what I was really pushing for so as you heard it's a bill that will affect all drivers across New Jersey and a bill that already affects almost all the drivers in the US so this specifically is important to all of us here all of us in the board and will really affect anyone that's our friends and anyone younger than us um so I then testified three more times and eventually got to press the button which is when it really started to set in I never really realized the effect of what I was doing until I pressed the button for the final time and it was actually a bill it kind of was just something I was doing after school something I was doing to attempt to make a difference but then eventually it led to a bill that is going to affect New Jersey for past my time and hopefully more things will happen to make New Jersey roads a safer place but our goal here is to provide like a stepping stone for uh safer roads in the future all right hello everyone my name is David Tay I'm the vice president so I'm just the chairman of the municipality committee so um we um our goal is to just engage our community to promote Traffic Safety overall so so far we've been able to collaborate with the West Orange pedestrian safety board and the West Orange Police Department as well so we've been able to generate Solutions with local traffic um safety leaders so you know just talk to them about different problems that's been going on within our area and really figure out like you know what's going on in like with the within our streets so we've been able like I said over to address um Community road traffic issues and we're actually able to create the first ever Street mural to slow down traffic as well and then like I said here's the picture hello everyone my name is Michael Montoya I'm the chairman of the education committee and this year we presented to elementary schools on a pedestrian about pedestrian and bus safety and Kelly uh the first school we went to was Kelly and with a show of hands uh we saw that most children had zero clue about pedestrian and bus safety and by the end we saw 50% increase on uh pedestrian and bus safety knowledge so we're very proud about that throughout the presentation we're asking questions involving the students and giving out prizes and we also Incorporated a mural design for students to make I know in Washington they have their own mural that was designed by the students themselves and we're projected to present to local elementary schools in the future again all right we were awarded $10,000 cash prize in the last three years through the Yuga brains competition and we provided free behind the wheel lessons to 20 students and we will continue to offer the scholarships so also last year we um last year in the past two years we've been able to host two Traffic Safety fairs so we've been able to collaborate with Easy Ride for bike safety lessons and um ride lessons as well so like you can see here we did boo um ra raffle prizes and fun activities for the kids and this is actually where we created the mural um at Washington where we did a mural in veiling so it's just a really fun fun thing and we're hoping to do it this year as well and then we also got the Easy r award um we went to the Easy Ride award ceremony so we got the West Orange High School gold level recognition from New Jersey safe rout to school program so we participated and conducted a schoolwide audit on Transportation means to and from school so that's the reason why we got the award so one of our most recent things that we're really excited about is a Traffic Safety Week that happened just last week at our high school basically our whole goal was just to get community involvement in people like our peers people our age so we had surveys to gauge um people's understanding of bills and different rules throughout like New Jersey driving regulation then we would inform them and they would take a survey again at the end so we got responses from over 200 of our students just four days at lunch uh around 83% of the students who filled out our post survey got the answers correct at least one compared to over 50% of people getting no answers correct and 95% of people getting at least one answer incorrect um in the pre- survey so these are some of the pictures from our Fair we had a booth and then we gave out prizes that wheel on the right was the reward for interacting with us um they would come up fill out our surveys fill out we'd inform them fill out post surveys and then they'd get a chance to spin the wheel um to get the t-shirts that we're wearing right now bracelets pencils flash lights and if they interacted with us and followed us on Instagram they also got a chance to win a raffle um this was more Community involvement for us we got a couple sponsors from local restaurants mamags Duncan and Fortis we got them to donate gift cards and then a couple people will be randomly drawn this week to get those gift cards as a prize so our upcoming plans um we're going to have a Traffic Safety Fair it's going to be similar to our traffic week there's going to be activities it's going to be all about inform ing people except instead of it being just in our high school our goal is to reach the whole community and maybe even other towns um we're going to attempt to work with easy Rod again and have a course for kids to learn to ride bikes um last year we had Easy Ride donate bikes and helmets for people who couldn't afford them or just didn't have them and then again we're going to continue to present elementary schools and present our final contest of the you got brains in uh attempt to win first prize for the fourth year in a row and get another cash prize this is our Instagram if anybody like to follow I was trying to follow them on Instagram very awesome another uh outstanding example of uh West Orange's uh Future Leaders uh I don't know if any of you have a desire to get into politics but you certainly have The Knack um and you've already got a track record to run on um all right so in the in the interest of time we're going to move uh forward with our presentation from the nishang group um on economic Community Development and land use uh they are before us tonight uh in one of our resolutions have the women's yeah it's I heard you know when I saw something in the email um yeah right something from the mayor but I wasn't sure exactly what that was yeah so right so right after this we'll do that good good evening evening my name is Michelle delis for I am the principal and managing partner at nishang group we are planning consultancy in a project management firm located right in right two miles away in monair New Jersey um I will say this we have um a a bunch of planners um with diverse backgrounds I would like to you know just kind of impress upon you that our firm is a minority women-owned business um we have been around for roughly 17 years now um we have um roughly 15 members in our firm that's composed of um licensed and certified planners and Engineers Architects um all that have different Specialties in different Industries um just as a quick background um urban planning is something that you know there's there's various concentrations for those of you who aren't familiar with the field um and it ranges from transportation planning to land use planning Redevelopment planning Urban Design um and our firm has staff members with most of those backgrounds um in addition to Economic Development um we are here responding to the economic development RFP that was that was released by the township um that RFP also had um some caveats that asked for planning Services as needed and so we felt that we offered a blend of those Services um I am a former resident of West Orange so I'm very familiar with the with the township and um a a a I'll say a um an avid Patron to all of your as well um I understand the demographics we understand the assets that the township has as well as some of the challenges that you faced um our firm has been around again for 17 years and we've worked with municipalities in Hudson County and Essex and Union and middle sex and Mammoth County um and so we're very familiar with some of these issues while we realize that all municipalities have may have common issues we we make sure that we customize our approach according to the municipalities that we work in um um I mentioned earlier that we have a staff that's composed of various professionals with licenses we're certified we're lead certified we're PMP certified we're certified in Economic Development financials um and again we're certified by the American Institute of certified planners um um so to that end a little bit about me um I have about 29 years of experience in the field I'm a licensed and certified planner as well with my master's degree in city and Regional planning from the blousing school at Ruckers University um I believe that to whom much is given much is required and so I'm a big proponent of volunteer in addition to religious organizations and personal organizations I also volunteer in the industry I'm a former planning board member I was the vice chair of the planning board in my hometown um I'm a trustee for New Jersey future I am the chairperson for the Redevelopment planning committee for the American Planning Association the state chapter and I'm also a member of the national planning association's Ethics Committee where I helped um revise our conduct of Ethics um and so with that you know I mentioned earlier we're two miles away we're extremely responsive we're knowledgeable um you know very excited to see the assets that West Orange has um and really hopefully looking forward to working with you um again in the and you know in the spirit of time I would just like to briefly introduce Craig Sawyer he's our Economic Development specialist and he can tell you a little bit more about how we can respond to some of the issues that were identified in the RFP thank you thank you Michelle thank you I'm good evening everyone my name is Craig Sawyer I'm an economic development financial planner um I have over 30 years of experience in real estate and economic development um I just want to spend a couple minute just highlighting some of my accomplish M ments and some of my experiences um first of all I have extensive experience on managing and facilitating commercial districts um both low traffic areas as well as um heavy traffic districts over 100,000 pedestrians annually um in New York City um from there I have been responsible for um both um managing organizing um Merchant associations I like to Define it as as as well as helping them with Market promotion and attractions assisting with um attracting um new businesses this my thing new businesses um business retention um strategies as well as doing retail um Gap analysis looking at what some of the leakages um in that Community consist of and all my communities that I work in we always develop strategic plans I always like to emphasize that aspects of it and one of the um the accomplishment is one of the biggest projects that we have accomplished I think when you go you visit um Tom skin Avenue in New York City um you would see an area that once um um had a number of underutilized assets um some some various challenges um we had created a strategic plans uh we started with first with with planning um in zoning activities um from that we was able to develop a nice strategy to retain some of the retails establishments that was there um track a variety of new um up and coming um businesses and retailers um to the shop and to the district District um as well as bring some of the underutilized assets online and become viable um tax R boost within within the city um and now you go there is an excellent space to both um dine and Shop on tomsin Avenue um addition to that I have extensive experience in utilizing developing underutilized assets um real estate development has with one of the areas that have spent a lot of time over my last 20 something years in Consulting um variety projects both retail industrial and mixed use development type projects um in in that in that capacity um in that capacity I I feel I could be a very big asset to the um the township and helping address some of the under uiz assets that we have here um in in the in the township um both we talking about the um the historic I used to word the historic um um but the manner which everyone aware of um the May here um Farms um sit um for redevelopment and also um the valley um so the variety of different assets here um within the town that could be um to redeveloped or repurposed um I have extensive experience not just in the Redevelopment process so I can talk with developers understand the challenges understanding the opportunities understand the process and what it takes to complete a project um I'm very extensive experience with the financing side I can read financial statements um performers I I could I could give you the assessment if the tax abatement is warranted um and what resources are needed to be able to support that developer in that process or that property owners in that process um there um um along with that I I I know the what tools are available to a system um both the federal resources available um extensive knowledge on the state programs that are available um as well as some of the the local um tools that the municipality has to assist developers in that process um when you look at the um the programs from everything from Brownfield I see the agenda you had your H um I has has discharge site remediation program on your agenda which I'm very familiar with on about Brownfield Redevelopment area barns which is the tool that municipality could use to assist in that process um tax batement which we all are familiar with in that process um I consist with that um in that area um as well um and just keeping um mov um the different resources that available um not just at the federal level but also at the state level um have experience and relationships working with um Eda um D through the lsrp program um um NJ which I Shar which I have been the consultant for New Jersey V Development Authority um for over 15 years where I have been responsible for developing the curriculums for the training programs for elected officials board members um developers nonprofit for-profit developers attorneys planners and others um development um professionals um in all aspects of these development real estate development and project Finance I taught some of the project Finance classes as well as the leasing classes um which I am also um um I'm quite knowledgeable on um I have familiarity um with the the township um particularly um sitting on on several boards but one notable board that like to share his hands Inc um that's located in the valley I serve on their board for several years I sered as their board chair for about three or four years um with Pat marsy um was the chair during that particular time um I know the assets that we have down in the valley that also could be um highlighted um like Luna stage um which um which is um provid some of the best plays and training opportunities for young adults and and and kids who want to learn the Arts so I just something of my background I that be good asset um as we take one of the challenges of um and opportunities to help redevelop in e e pre economic growth within the township there any questions let me know thank you Mr sya thank you Miss delis for uh any questions from our colleagues want to thank them for their presentation thank you thank you Council questions no no I want I I appreciate their time just for the just for the Public's knowledge um we saw them separately over the past uh week or so I know my session with uh with councilwoman Sara and our director Meg bril for downtown we uh we appreciate the over two plus hours you gave us and the ex extensive questioning so thank you I really appreciated it thank you yeah I want to thank you both for the presentation I think it was thorough and I'm glad that you were able to stay uh within the time constraints given how late we started tonight um seeing that there are no other questions I think we can close this portion of our no oh no it's right we do have one it's not on the agenda but we do have it surprise uh surprise surprise we're going to end on a high note Madame mayor so council president actually I think this worked out better that you didn't know but uh I didn't do that intentionally but I'm glad that so I'm glad that all the women from were celebrating March as women's history month and I did invite um the women from Hall here this evening to cre recreate what we did last year when I first got elected and they're all nodding their heads it was just a lovely evening um but what I'm saying I was glad that it worked out in this order because if the resolution is on your agenda this evening for the nishaan group um if you do approve that I'm glad that everyone was here to hear this because when we create if and when we create a work plan um you'll have input to that so you know next staff meeting uh we can talk about that so it worked out and everything that Mr Stewart just said we have been talking about for a long time um BDA talked about BDA and Redevelopment and uh and hands again we talk about our Valley quor as being blurred you mentioned Luna stage but we have the Arts Council we have um a lot of businesses on Valley Road and residents and and we knit out so um please consider that resolution so the reason we have town hall and even last month in my state of the Town address um I highlighted so many of uh the Departments all of the Departments that have uh that hidden force behind them and many were not able to attend the breakfast the chamber breakfast because they were here working so I'm glad that they were here um we do have a proclamation please okay so it says whereas women of every race every race class and ethnic background have made historic contributions to the growth and strength of our nation in countless recorded and unrecorded ways and American women have played and continued to play critical economic cultural and social roles roles in our sphere of life in the nation by constituting a a significant portion of the labor force working inside and outside of our homes and whereas American women have played a unique role throughout the history of the nation for by providing the majority of the volunteer labor force in our nation American women were particularly import important in the establishment of early charitable philanthropic and cultural institutions in our nation and of every race class and ethnic background served as early leaders in the Forefront of every major Progressive social change movement and whereas women have served our country courageously in the military and have been leaders not only in securing their own rights of suffrage and equal opportunity but also in the ab Abolitionist Movement the Emancipation movement the individual labor movement the civil rights movement and other movements especially the peace movement to create a more fair and just Society for all so I Susan McCartney mayor of West Orange and the township Council wish to recognize the invaluable contributions the women working in the township have made and acknowledge their dedication and commitment to the township and hereby proclaim the month of March as women's History Month in the township of West Arch come on up come on up come on can you guys join us behind the Das please yes for the picture yeah we can have we'll [Music] together okay everybody look this way you have to get the one guy now really a thorn among the Roses St bad can you hi all right um we are now going to move into our regular meeting Madam clerk this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman castelino present councilwoman gber Michel present councilwoman Scarpa present Council woman yeah councilwoman Williams president council president Rutherford here will everyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance i al to the flag of the United States of America and to the rep stands na God indivisible withy and justice for all the council is now in their public meeting thank you madam clerk uh we are going to begin with our public comment I'm going to ask Mr Fagan and Mr Pugi to address us first thank you council president I will be brief um I just want to uh start out by saying we have a shredding day coming up uh April 14th at the Environmental Center this something happens a few times a year so now is the time to gather those documents there are restrictions um of things that you can take and you should check our website to make sure that you comply with them uh this is a repeat from uh last meeting but it's worth mentioning again about the West Orange dog park and if you go on our website we are also seeking sponsorships for that uh also the uh the pool uh continues to have their early bird specials through May 10th should take advantage of that uh mayor McCartney has open Office hours coming up on April 11th uh there were a few people in my office uh today uh there's no appointment necessary um you can just show up and speak to the mayor um of course we have our juneth uh and I want I I ran this last meeting I wanted to run it again because there is an open call for film sub submissions and there also are sponsor opportunities available and you can contact councilwoman uh Williams uh for that uh congratulations goes forward to uh former West Orange president Belmar Joseph he was named to the Haitian national soccer team he was a student at uh fendale and Kelly Kelly Elementary Schools uh that's an incredible honor for uh for any individual we also have congratulations going out speaking of female History Month to uh former West Orange West Orange High School wrestler Sandy gorillo first female to attain a national title in women's wrestling uh certainly worth mentioning um also with the new library uh moving uh just want to remind everyone that there is senior transportation to the West Orange Public Library at ten roone Circle and this information is on our website as well um Memorial Day is coming up May 27 now this may seem that we're uh we're far out from Memorial Day and why is uh Joe Fagan mentioning this now uh well I I want to bring to everyone's attention that this year we are going to be rededicating the uh West Orange honor role here in the first floor Town Hall it was dedicated on May 30th 1944 and it will be the 80th anniversary and I bring it up uh not to uh to mention that as much as I want to mention that on this honor role there are uh over 3600 West stor residents who served in World War II and they come from all walks of life and all backgrounds and um uh I want to invite members of the public who might have a uh a relative an uncle a brother uh on here um there the uh of those 3600 residents there are fathers Brothers uncles uh possibly even aunts and uh there are at least three sets of Father and Son residents who served in wber to that were uh that came from West Orange my father and grandfather being one of them uh I want to make special mention of uh Jo Joseph Jones West Orange High School class of 1940 uh I believe I discovered an error where he was omitted from the honor role but should be included on there and uh I've been trying to reach out to descendants of the Chesterfield of of Joseph Jones's family to invite them to the ceremony I would like to add him as part of the uh of the dedication Ceremony this Memorial Day and um the reason I believe he was uh inadvertently omitted was uh his class Warren Porter which is seen on the screen um After High School graduation high school in 1940 he went to work at the hardware store in West starshire whereas Joseph Jones went on to college and uh his North Carolina address uh or college was used as criteria I believe and it should have been his West Orange address so he should be added to the honor I like to see that that gets done on the rededication this Memorial Day um and if anybody has any information please send me an email J Fagen west.org uh if you want to know if any of your relatives uh or any information uh about uh Mr Jones um you can email the council uh in Council west.org uh if uh anyone has any questions or doesn't get an opportunity to speak during public comment uh council president that concludes my report uh thank you Mr Fagan Mr pesi hi Anthony pesy representing County Executive Joe de fenzo um I'll bring it up again last last time out I talked about the cherry blossoms uh we're getting closer and closer to uh peak season right now we're in a budding stage so if you do go to branchbrook park uh you'll see some colors starting to pop but it's not peak season yet so just bear with us probably in about two weeks we we'll get there um full schedule events from April 6 to April 14th on the website which is essexcounty nj.com org sorry um on Thursday March 28th we have a food distribution at the Cherry Blossom Welcome Center uh the county executive started these this program during the pandemic to address uh food insecurity uh with Rising costs and inflation it's just as important now as it was then uh so all told we've done over 65 events and uh provided over three and a half million meals to people uh so like I said this is Thursday at the Trey Blossom Welcome Center starting at 9:00 am. while supplies last so uh don't wait come out early uh and it's rain or shine and looking at the weather it's going to be rain but we'll we'll persevere uh and then today was a great day in Asis County and in West Orange uh because we had our Irish heritage celebration at the MLK building and uh two great honores one was Kathy aarn O'Brien who is the executive director of the Heen AIDS Foundation she's done remarkable work raising awareness um about AIDS and HIV and uh beloved Son of West Orange Senator John mcken former mayor former councilman uh on a personal note when I first met him he was the uh zoning board attorney so a long time ago so uh great day inis County and West Orange and all the information I talked about is on our website Essex County nj.org thank you thank you Mr PGI we're going to open public comment now uh for uh those that are joining us in person as um you likely are aware we are no longer allowing public comment on Zoom uh so for those that would like to have public comment uh right now on anything um you may do so at this time hi Ron Weston Whit Bay Drive I'm also a member of the economic velopment commission West Orange had the pleasure of talking with all of the members of the council at various times over the last year at EDC uh first of all council president and members of the council I applaud you for moving forward with the economic development consultant RFP and uh resolution that's on the table today uh I support that resolution and appreciate Nish Wayne group's presentation and I did have opportunity to review there their um proposal and qualifications and without hesitation as someone who's a planner and served on the planning board for a long time um I their qualifications are impressive and I believe can serve the township well I do have one footnote and I just want to put this out there because I don't know if anyone was thinking about it but I still believe in the short term let's just say through the balance of this year there would be benefit in keeping Paul gel on as the board zoning board and planning board uh planner which he's been doing and he has 14 years of knowledge in that role because I this the proposal and the RFP focus on economic development as well as planning support and there's a lot of planning things to be done at 30,000 feet dealing with the ongoing applications dealing with the week to week month-to Monon role of the Zoar board and writing the reports and representing those two land use boards is important so I I I understand different viewpoints on the council about it but something to think about because I I also think that the proposal and the number of hours and all the other thing isang groups going to have a lot to do strategically to get going and to really benefit the town and I do think there's a difference NE there's a difference between doing those reports and going to the zor board to represent th those two boards so think about that because I I think when you look at it if you you know I know Mr gel he may already be technically done or he's being carried over but I think it's something to think about because it could be a both and instead of an either or at least through the balance of this year why a number while a number of big applications are continuing to move forward initially we can get in at a 30,000 feet at a strategic level because there's a lot of Economic Development and other planning work to be done rather than getting down in the weeds and spending their hours because they've outlined the number of hours if you look at the proposal there only so far can go with that so so think about that but again I I totally support and recommend that the board um move forward with the resolution of appointing initi Group LLC uh response to the RFP that's all I have to say thank you thank you thank you Mr Weston anyone else U you don't have to good evening Michaela Bennett Old Indian Road there's no way you should approve resolution 112 d24 don't even bother trying to fix it don't waste your time and don't permit the mayor's manipulations of fact to mount a misinformation campaign the council majority should have retained an investigator to investigate all Tran related claims to determine if there's cause for removal upon doing that all this slick stuff will stop there's a laundry list of issues with Tran one of them will stick once you have independently vetted evidence you have the ability to act in addition to your for cause options there's ethical considerations when an attorney is found to have violated our rules of professional conduct we are held accountable up to and including losing our licenses to practice law that's where you should send any evidence of Tran's ethical issues I'd recommend familiarizing yourselves with the rules of professional conduct and assessing his conduct we as attorney have duties your owed certain conduct the council permitted the mayor to take this right into court she sought injunctive relief obtained a temporary order and now wants to withdraw the case she claims it's to save us money that's a shadow mayor talking if you withdraw the temporary order doesn't exist in perpetuity absolutely not but that's how people like the mayor and Tran want you to believe don't let them that's what this resolution would do it would let them puff out their chests and brag about winning and suggesting expenses are unnecessary well that's actually true but not for the reasons they've stated all of this added expense wouldn't be necessary if Tren were actually operating in the Township's interest and not his own you should have methodically secured a firm to investigate provide all your concerns to the firm awaited the investigation and then published the findings if you decided they rise to removal for cause the same is true for Mr gross the same is true for chief Abbott and any any individual in this Administration who gives grounds for removal the court Sideshow should never have been permitted to be the main event insist on an accurate representation of facts correct the record one they are spinning the costs of litigation two let's speak to what Trent costs the township annually without a contract that's fodder for abuse the council is obligated to be the check and balance to exactly that the council rightfully requires a contract does the law permit a firm to Bill without an agreement in place is there an underlying agreement that governs Tran's firm and Tran referring West Orange business to that firm the council's attorney only cost the township 50k because of these tactics the council would have never needed to retain councel if the administration weren't playing games and violating the law how did Tran permit gross to hold a role in conflict with the municipal code why did Tran try to rewrite that code why is this Administration distilling multiple roles down to a few decrepit dinosaurs playing musical chairs and stacking hands on multiple pensions that we will all pay in perpetuity it's the same old game with the same old guys they need to stop and by methodically listing for the public the real history including giving Tran every opportunity to bow out gracefully the council builds a record of truths while they manipulate through Lies We would not be here right now Ken haer would still be working for West Orange and the council would be focused on other things if Mr Tran hadn't facilitated the incorrect advice in Council that the mayor could vote in a tie we're here right now because of Tren no one else this case and this Township is in this condition all because of Richard Tren the council majority is doing the people's work and there are thousands of us who support your efforts of ridding this town of the Tren Chokehold once and for all do not vote in favor your time is up of this resolution thank you Rachel Klein how Drive um firstly I think with all the Poss developments looking to be done in town it would be a mistake to hire um a a consultant instead of a town planner definitely a town planner prior someone who has to answer actually to the town might make more sense um after sitting in on a tree ordinance meeting I actually fell ill for about a week so I've only just heard that it's not the same that I thought we had left so um I thought we had left a really on a good note and so if it had changed that much maybe it should I keep going back to a drawing board but a really good tight tree ordinance is what this town needs um if the dog park is still on the agenda I noticed it before I'm very much in favor of a minimal fee for use of the dog park I think it's a great way for people who use it to take ownership of it we already asked $12 for um licensing your dog in town if you add maybe to the licensing fee I personally won't use the dog park because my dog is ill but I don't mind paying a little bit as a dog owner for a dog park for it to be maintained and used um and I think um that's all thank you thank you uh good evening got Todd deoi Bernett terce um first thing I want to talk about is resolution 9824 on the recycling center um yet again this Administration is presenting the council and the Township's taxpayers with a proposed contract without providing the necessary information specifically they fail to provide us the copies of the actual proposals received why must residents constantly submit o requests for information that should be provided upfront um my request is that we not pro approve this resolution until all the information is in front of all of the T residents so we have the necessary facts to assess the merits or shortcomings of the administration's decision making um related to that is resolution 9924 which extends does a temporary extension of the existing contract um and gather it's at the same contract prices or numbers as exists today yet there's a vast difference between what's been offered and what is being paid today which calls into question what's been going on at the center recycling center all this time uh and it essentially the township has been short changed for years because of a favored contract with the existing uh vendor so I I I think both should be uh rejected we appreciate hearing that um resolution 10424 the economic development position this has been before this Council numerous times and at previous meetings there have been many Township residents who have come out to speak speak against an economic development person and arguing that we need a full-time Town planner that hasn't changed we have Paul gel but he's doing the becking and calling of the administration and he's been there for years and look at the Town it is not it's not a a an example of a vibrant retail Community um we need a full-time planner and that should be the first and foremost task to engage a full-time planner then bring in the salespeople Economic Development to sell what we have to sell but we don't have a vision yet for what this town should and can look like um so I'm I'm I'm requesting that that resolution be denied I'm not arguing anything about the qualifications of the the folks that are being presented and presented earlier I'm sure they're fully capable I think it's putting the cart before the horse we need Town planner not an economic development group at at this point in time resolution 11224 termination of litigation I also agree that this should this case has not been decided it was a temporary injunction and the mayor has been attempting or attempted to with misinformation to spin it in such a way that she's won a victory it's a small victory but the case hasn't been decided yet um this this this should be allowed to continue and to and to be decided by the judge and let's see what happens with that but and you've come along way you made the the the right decision to challenge the administration's actions and uh regarding Mr Tran and ultimately he should go but this court this case needs to be decided and it should not be withdrawn um I think it needs to be that resolution also needs to be rejected thank you for hearing me thank you anyone else uh for public comment before we close seeing none public comment is now closed look at that and we started late want to thank all of you uh that uh have participated in public comic particularly Mr Fagan and uh Mr pesi um I want to allow some time for my colleagues to respond um we'll go in uh order as we normally do councilwoman Cina sure thank you council president um so most of this is in regards to resolutions and ordinances which uh I'm going to wait till we have those breakout discussions um the only clarification that I will give is Mr Kaiser he had actually retired to Florida um and that's why he's no longer with us because he's sold his house and and moved and that was a plan he had for quite some time um Mr Weston thank you for your service on economic development uh committee I appreciate all your support and your um and your comments this evening so thank you for that as well the other speakers for for coming in with their uh with their thoughts uh Rachel kleene uh the fee for the dog park I know we have that on uh for tonight and then I'll ask Administration is that something that should be added to the license or you have to do it separately right now it's separate could it be done together or you'd have to change the ordance so so tonight how how much were you planning on the fee Mr $10 for residents and 20 for yeah so it was minimal the goal is to get yeah um more people to license their dogs I think we have like well I think that's 5,000 yeah no one 1,000 the numbers around can you so my well I guess we'll ask you about that and my question was can you if you don't have the dog license can you get the pass or you can't no you can't you have to come in you have some license somewhere somewhere yeah dog has to be licensed it may be licensed and they're not and they're not going to get the pass unless they show us their license from out of town which the one 20 oh I'm sorry so my question was I just want to make sure that when they come in for a pass they have to show their license or they don't get the dog park pass the way this is set up so okay thank you that's the council president and thank you all for coming thank you councilwoman celino councilwoman gab good evening everyone and I want to thank everyone um who's here today in council chambers and to the watching um from home or where wherever you are thank you for joining us um to those who spoke tonight thank you for your advocacy um so first I'd like to thank the ntia group for your presentation um so I will honestly admit that I was one of those very vocal voices about having a full-time planner but after speaking to different people in government I my understanding is that folks are now shying away from full-time planners and hiring firms that's like a One-Stop shop right you get everything in one place um now my sentiments have changed through research through speaking to professionals um you know if the administration still wants to hire full-time planner great I personally plan on voting yes to the nishaan group um and so I want to thank you guys for your for your presentation um now Miss Bennett um Mr doovi thank you guys for your advocacy and and especially uh with regards to resolution 112 um Miss Miss Bennett and you guys are absolutely correct um I'll be voting no for this resolution this resolution I believe unfortunately is what I think is a political game I've speaking to different attorneys the mayor initiated the lawsuit so therefore she can withdraw at any time without a resolution there's no need for a resolution she didn't present a resolution when she sued us so I understand why she's asking us to vote on this so it it doesn't make much sense to me so with that I plan on voting no to resolution 112 um and then I end my my response to public comment thank you all so much thank you councilwoman uh councilwoman Williams thank you council president thank you everyone for coming this evening joining us via Zoom uh Mr Fagan can we get a count on Zoom audience if you will yes counc president there are 34 people in the zoom audience thank you very much Mr Pagan um so again thank you to those who are joining us this evening um most of the comments were regarding the uh resolutions or ordinances that we have so I will reserve my commentary uh so that we can continue to expedite the meeting and move forward timely but thank you to everyone who had their comments that's good uh councilwoman scarin okay great thanks for everyone for coming out I'll just take them from the top um Ron it's been a pleasure getting to know you and um working with you now on the economic development committee but um I have to respectfully disagree for decades all of our residents have come out and advocated for a town planner that is an employee Mo many feel that they want someone in the vein of Susan Borg that is responsive to the residents of the community as I've said many times I've been a business consultant a business consultant does the job that they're asked to do and they have a um you know they need to be re rehired it's very different when you have a an employee who has a fiduciary responsibility not only to all of the residents but would have more of a responsibility I believe to the council as well so I think what we're doing is we're putting the cart before the horse as Mr deobia said he took the words right out of my mouth um I don't question at all the competency of the Nish way group I feel that once we have a planner they may have some skill sets that she may lack or she may want to augment but we we don't really know that until we hire the right person and we haven't really looked I also as a business consultant would never let a client hire someone when we had only one bid we've only had one bid from the Nishu group for for the job and I just don't think that's prudent so as much as I'd love to work with them in the future in some capacity I just don't think it's the right business decision to do right now um Rachel CL I agree with you the tree ordinance cannot be passed in in the shape it's in now um I believe the work we've done on the tree ordinance for God knows how many months with the back and forth is part of the problem that the Administration has in working with the council we've wasted a lot of time and a lot of money even though Mr J Garo has done a fabulous job he's very responsive but we're just wasting our time and wasting the taxpayers money every time we go back and forth and have meetings and agree on things and then it's all changed up we really need to come together and once and for all stop spending money unnecessarily on on legal costs so I am not going to vote for the tree ordinance um I I was very happy with what we had come together with last time but that's not again what was put on uh the dog park I do agree I think we need just a minimal fee because that will give residents a sense of ownership and commitment um so I do agree with you there uh Mr doovi uh I think you're right on the money again on the recycling center um the recycling center has been a source of contention for many residents for quite a while even though they've changed their name from reliable wood to a different name residents have had concerns about a number of things um primarily the the running of the recycling center and the amount that they've been paying in rent it started out with one price it came down there just so many issues surrounding that group and the past practices are somewhat questionable so I will not be um voting for them for that um and in terms of the economic development and your assessment of all that I would agree with you as well so I think I've I've hit most of it uh of course Miss Bennett and Mr Devo I agree with your concerns regarding the litigation as well that's it thank you councilwoman uh Scara um again Mr Fagan and Mr PGI we do thank you for your timely uh updates uh I am deeply saddened that I missed the Irish her Heritage celebration um this is Holy Week so uh a lot of things are going on that made it difficult for me to be present but um I'm certainly glad that two West Orange residents were acknowledged and today um and Mr Weston I thoroughly enjoyed uh working with you um Mr Charles and others on the economic development committee uh and I uh particularly uh was pleased to work on giving advice to the mayor with regard to this particular RFP uh and I do recall all of the time that was spent uh going back and forth between yourself myself and Mr Charles um as well as the full committee weighing in on what the issues were and what we wanted to see uh in that role uh and you know I'll be honest with you I was not confident uh at the outset uh that our uh recommendations would be received well by the mayor but they were um and she Incorporated I believe if not every single one almost every single one of the recommendations that came out of the economic development committee and all of those recommendations were decided upon unanimously amongst all of the members um and so you know I am I am glad the mayor um acknowledged that um and Incorporated that into the RFP um while I share your your I I certainly understand uh your position on Mr GLE uh and we'll we'll certainly try to Pro process what that means uh I do share your uh support for Mish Wayne group uh and I'm excited uh that they responded that they are as competent and qualified as they are uh that their track record uh is as long as it is uh with regard to the success that they've had in other municipalities and their firm is as diverse as it is in uh when it comes to uh the various types of services they provide it is not um lost on me that tonight as we honor the women in uh Town Hall um deservedly so they don't get enough Rec nition um but as we honor them we have a uh woman-owned business uh presenting the the principal uh founder uh partner principal founding partner of the firm uh is a woman um and so I am excited to support that as well I think we need uh more representation of minorities and women uh in our uh vendor pool uh so I'm excited to work with you and I will be voting uh in support tonight um um I'm going to leave everything else uh that related to a resolution um uh with just some minor comments um uh with regard to 112 uh I Echo sentiment of my colleague uh councilman gber Michael uh the mayor did not seek our resolution to initiate the lawsuit she does not need our resolution to end it uh and the way this resolution is written it doesn't just end her involvement in the lawsuit it would end ours um and that is not something I'm willing to do um so I encourage my colleagues to vote no I will be voting no on 112 um I agree that this is um I think it's it's unnecessary I think it's um political gamesmanship and I find it offensive uh to try write a resolution that way after taking a Victory lap uh after an interim decision is rendered uh that essentially didn't change anything just kept the status quo uh as it was established in August of last year um so um W Starin should be very well aware um we would not need to have a resolution to withdraw from the lawsuit if the lawsuit was over it is not uh and I am EX expecting um I well at least I would hope and encourage my colleagues to vote no on 112 uh and then perhaps we can have some conversation about what our next steps are uh but it is it is important for us to understand at the heart of this is not whether or not Mr trinken serve as Town attorney that has been clarified in this uh room multiple times uh it was asked by Mr gross it was asked by Mr um Jenaro was asked by Mr um I think it was Mr rabbit it might have been Mr trink but I could be wrong on this um it was the the uh resolution while not well written uh and I wrote it I accept responsibility for that um it was written in with the intention of keeping Mr trink from uh assigning work to his firm without a contract from shutting down the existing firm and starting another one and then seeking the contract or working underneath the um the minimums um established by local public contracts law which would allow him $44,000 in bills before he had to get a contract I know that he has had multiple conf uh firms over the years so um I was the intention was to keep any of those games from being played and to uh Force us as elected officials uh and local government on the administration side to honor the law the law says you cannot do work above a certain minimum amount without a contract Mr TRS firm does not have a contract has not had a contract since December 31st 2022 um all right I think I've I've I've fairly beaten that horse uh and I'm excited that it's as early as it is and we can get down to the people's business um Madam clerk okay review the consent agenda approval of minutes of previous meeting public meeting March 12th 2024 consent consent consy report of Township officers none reading of petitions and Communications and bids correspondence from mayor McCartney regarding the reappointment of The Honorable Dennis Dow as Chief municipal judge for the township of West Orange for a three-year term effective January 1st 2024 through December 31st 2026 is there consent consent consent bill none resolutions uh resolution 9624 is being pulled from the agenda by the administration are there any other resolutions being pulled this evening yes I'd like to pull 107 111 112 107 11 and 112 112 okay okay anyone else yeah I'd like to pull um 103-4 and 104 d24 and um 9624 that was pulled by the administration okay anyone else I have questions on one 13 and one and 114 and 115 you want to do those first unless there are any others being pulled not pulled but just question on the executive session for 102 are we gonna have that this evening uh yeah well I text Mr Dr and make sure we can get here for whenever we're we're still under the you know temporary relief um order so he's more than welcome to join us is that it yeah so no no further question on 102 is that 102 that was 102 yeah because I I want to go into session let's let's get it done and let people go the last we is yeah I think that's everything all right so to reiterate we have 96 pulled by the administration uh 103 pulled by councilwoman 103 and 104 pulled by councilwoman Scarpa 107 pulled by councilwoman gber Michael 111 and 112 pulled by councilwoman gber Michael as well um I have some questions on 1134 and 15 um and I would like Mr so that's that's what we're pulling is that what you got okay so before we actually vote I just wanted to uh go over these uh questions Mr gross can you um explain to us um and this is for the benefit of the public as well as your your the council exactly uh what we're doing with 113 114 and 115 you can take them in order if you choose then I have a couple of questions uh to follow sure um the the first the first two are uh remaining year end um um resolutions that are required for for closing out the the the books for 20 uh 23 um they're they're basically housekeeping they're we we've done some of this before but in in furtherance of finalizing that we found a couple of areas that needed action uh and then the the the third resolution was the temporary budget uh we we passed the temporary budget in January which lasts approximately 90 days we're now coming up into April we need to extend it into um for the the next quarter and it's based on uh 2020 26 and a half 26 and a quarter percent um for for a three-month period based on the 2023 budget so is this because we're not we don't have we have yet to pass a budget it is because the budget has not been adopted um that's correct so and this is based on so this is going to be fun in this year's budget at last year's rate that's correct and this is going to allow us to get through the entire second quarter yes and do we need to go through the entire second quarter well aren't we expected to have the budget by the end of the month yeah I know we've got to do the work and we've got to pass it but should that extend all the way till June is it June April May June well that that's that's really entirely up to the council the the the mayor will be presenting to you the a a budget um and depending on what work the council believes it needs to do on that budget we dictate how much time it's required so you're expectation though is that you'll need to fund local government through June that we will not have it has been it has been our it has always been our practice to extend in quarters um and of course once once a budget is adopted the the temporary budget is expired so if it if it's not utilized um up and know if it's not all utilized it it that all reverts into the current budget so it it's not wasted it's just a matter of of taking the action to put it in place it's h um more efficient to to do it one time as opposed to however X number of the times all right with regard to 114 can you explain to us what these canc ation are um yeah there's uh B basically we're looking to cancel um some transactions in the in the pool account as well as in the capital account um some when when we went and looked at um the the the accounting uh we we realized that we we needed to eliminate these these were expenses that weren't required and we eliminate for the benefit of ultimately for the taxpayer it'll it'll free up some some Surplus and so be use for the bottom line so that from the capital account we can expect is that I mean it's an offsetting number here you've got a credit cap the capital account will create Capital Improvement fund and that Capital Improvement fund will then go to the benefit of the taxpayer got it all right and then last question which is related but not directly um when can we expect to get a bill list um I'm sorry I would have had it now I've been out I've been out um on um medical Le leave for the better part of the last two weeks so I'm a little behind um but I expect there will be a a bills list on the next meeting uh thank you that satisfies my questions on 113 14 and 15 anyone else while we're on the topic of the budget so you're saying we're going to get the budget at the end of this month that's a few days from now does that mean the mayor's prepared to give a budget presentation in the next council meeting um we'll speak for the mayor on that I'm meeting with the mayor tomorrow to go through the budget and then from there once once the mayor approves the budget then we will get it into paper and get it in your hands as soon as possible uh colleagues any other questions on 113 14 or 15 no all right um Madame clerk is there a motion to approve the consent agenda second all in favor I any opposed the consent agenda is implemented Okay resolution 10324 resolution authorizing service agreement for goose control technology for the year 2024 councilwoman Scarpa you pull this yeah first of all I want to thank Mr fonzo um he's been really wonderful working with me on this I had heard from a lot of residents who had uh concerns on our methodology of dealing with the geese and I had Conta Ed dorine Fraga of the animal control of New Jersey and asked him to have her come out she does a free site visit she has a landscaper who works with her that also um for free will give us some advisement and they are scheduled to come out next Thursday and I will be working with them going to all of the sites and continuing to understand the best way to manage the most cost-effective way to manage geese control control so uh I want to just thank them so I really would like us um to table this until we can have her out and she can do a presentation to all of this a lot of the residents really want to understand it better there are many different options um of dealing with the geese I've been contacting other municipalities and talking to them about how they deal with it and I really think it warrants a full presentation and a very strategic approach um one of the things I'm very concerned about is um the resolution in front of us tonight is twice the amount of money as the resolution from last month for the same type of work so I need to clarify from Mr Bonino why the prices changed in the 8,000 range from the 3500 range that's I know we add a aspac or other think that's well I pulled out the one from last time that we had and I have the one from this time and there's a difference in the pricing so I wanted clarification on that as well same resolution it's the same resolution but the cost is is different is it a tyo look at it and it's it's like twice the price so it concerned me I mean we we can look that up relatively quickly Mr J table it yeah I wouldn't see any is Mr fono on uh yes council president he he is uh uh Mr fanino can you please clarify for us I I wasn't aware of that either well usually can you hear us I know we add I'm not sure that did any no there were three sites in both proposals fanino can you hear us I thought this was the same resolution good evening yes I could hear you can you hear me yes thank you for joining us okay okay so um the I I heard the question the um the resolution is for the the same amount nothing has changed um so I'm trying to understand where you're where you're seeing a change from before well if you look if you look at the document it's different price now I think those are different Services the document it's 3,000 which we've been paying plus the 450 for the that's for the last one and then removal of G of Resident geese 4 only yeah but we don't do that we just do the AEG treatment yeah and that's only if we request it I think the nte so the not to exceed not to exceed change well we can we can lower that I mean that that that it's still even with it's the gassing of the geese that's very expensive and I think Mr fono we don't do that correct that's that's only as needed um the ad is the main objective and um it needs to continue if we if we stop this this this work has to start next week yeah and if we stop it it's going to really interrupt the process and a removal may become necessary at that point in time so have we already started it because we have not yeah because I understand there's a Long window where you can do this it doesn't have to be short window a couple of months where eggs don't I think the gestation period is far less than a couple months can can you clarify for us Mr funo you were just saying that the work has to start next week um can you elaborate on that why why does it have to start next week I think it can wait two weeks if that's got G catch yeah no it um it has to start within the the first week of April in fact we're actually that's actually going to be a little late because they're already finding not not in West Orange but um in other uh towns they've already started and they're already finding eggs in Nest so because of the mild weather chances are uh we may be a little late already so the sooner we can get this approved the more effective the addling will be for R geese and West Orange I think we could wait two weeks so I mean I don't I we could still do the job and wait a couple weeks Mr one second Mr R what were you saying I don't believe you have a with the window of opportunity I think the meeting's beyond the period that they need to start out ofing the eggs yeah our next meeting is April 9th April 9th yeah we can wait till April 9th because Council Williams for quite a month mons council president just for the record when a point of order is raised um that is supposed to be recognized immediately by the chair just wanted to um put your mic just wanted to um mention um that there was a motion to Table and there was no second thank you D so um if if I'm hearing you correctly Mr Abbott and Mr fanino and I don't know these terms but addling I assume is a period of time where these eggs are gestating and they they have to be addressed during that period of time and then if they aren't it doesn't work is that what I'm hearing okay then they have we got to remove it's not several months 2 not 28 days they sit on eggs they hatch you a month it's not it's not several months I mean you think about Springs when you see all the goslings in the geese Mr Bonino could speak probably more intelligently than I can about the health hazards that are associated with goose droppings but if I just want to be on a record if we need to close our parks and we need to close OAC for the season Administration is prepared to do that so everybody has to know that up front I move to um forther resolution all right you didn't get a second for your table motion it's been um properly motioned and second it hold on before uh Council massino has I just wanted to make a statement so so councilwoman whenever we get something like this and I uh appreciate you looking at a different alternative but but we got to be careful being in the 12th hour so um I if you do have a good recommendation I would still keep that appointment and bring it to us so we're in place early for next year where we're not you know competing with a a a a time of essence situation I would be open to moving forward as long as Mr fanino commits to having the presentation with with um we're going to be doing the site survey already got a motion we're gonna have to vote for vote on he said yes yeah as long as we do have the presid present and we do do it thorough we always look at new things but we can't not in the 12th hour right M Madam clerk yes councilwoman castelino uh to yes to approve to approve yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes the motion is carried resolution 10424 resolution authorizing an agreement with mishen Group LLC Monclair New Jersey for an economic development consultant for the provision of Consulting and support services to the township councilwoman Scarpa you pulled this yeah I think you know we've kind of talked about it a little bit and um I just want everybody to remember to just acknowledge that there are so many residents who really uh feel strongly about this we heard from Paul tractenberg just at our last meeting who's very well-versed and um about the need for a full-time planner and I want as to think about the very difficult budget that we're going to be coming into and I don't feel that we should be doing any unnecessary spending until we take a look at the budget so I would like to table I mean the Nish way group is you know has some nice skills they we may need them down the road but I would like to table it until we get the budget and we resolve some more of the issues just um councilman so we sat together for well over two hours and um really drilled them and I appreciate again their time and sense of humor we got to bond uh a lot I uh Jerry you really bring a great expertise and planning to the table that not that the rest of you but just a lot of the ideas that you stated in that se session with Planning and Zoning I really liked U Michelle I did uh a lot of digging on on on you when I came across a podcast um that you had um uh with one of the doctors I forgot who it was I wrote it down but I I like the way you describe Union that you were a mayor uh U for a couple terms as a big city with the small town feel and I I really like that because I feel like I we're getting larger approaching with almost 50,000 residents in the township but um being a lifer here I really want to keep that small town feel and I think a lot of people who move here want that I think a lot of people want to keep us a suburb even though we've always been Urban rim and I felt that you heard me understood that and uh I also appreciated a lot of the same people we know through the downtown uh programs um so I know you have that expertise in that as well I did hear a lot more Planning and Zoning uh my issue I think you're greatly have great expertise um I'm gonna I'm going to be supporting you this evening but I I tread lightly and with administration because I want to make sure that there is a very good thoughtful plan to integrate all your services for what we do there has been a need for a full-time planner for a long time um and I I've been you know on the fence with that and I could see where the need is I had a good talk with our zoning officer so I like your approach where you're going to come in weekly and have these team meetings with the staff and um even miss bro will be present and and we'll hopefully won't have that disconnect you know those those fall through the cracks and and we'll see we'll see how that works so um curiously how that goes um again I appreciate the expertise that you have I look forward uh to working with you but um I just you know I I just don't want to um I guess waste hours or services with and we talked about um to rehash lot that but for the Public's sake um with different kind of strategies so I just want to be very focused Target get the best you know bang for our buck and um and hopefully bring a lot of exciting new businesses uh to the whole Township so thank you council president councilwoman Williams you're welcome thank you just wanted to also have an opportunity um to have commentary on the initial group thank you again for your Stellar presentation um just having a background in real estate um I see value in both uh opportunities as economic development as well as the planning and I think it is um absolutely correct um that my colleagues mentioned when you understand uh what many of our communities are moving towards as far as planning and development for their U municipalities or townships and cities it is a um much more um model that that your firm brings to to us and so I'm excited um I do believe that however we call you whether it be economic developer whether it be planning or planner um I think it's semantics I think what is most important uh for us to understand is how we utilize your services um so one when we talk about whether or not we need a planner um it is my understanding that most of your staff are certified planners um so I don't understand how you would not be able to bring that skill set when that is indeed uh what your foundation is built on um so I respect the comments of my colleagues as well as you know the public um but again I I I understand that we are the elected officials who have the opportunity to sit in um understand what different vendors are bringing to us how you will serve us and we are also entrusted to make the better decisions for the community um so with that absolutely am supportive um I have been encouraging us to move into this direction I made the introduction um for you and I'm I'm just excited and hope my colleagues will move forward with this resolution and I am going to move that we do pass this resolution so councilman G Michael I'd like to pick you back off of my Council colleague here and this commentary excuse me S and this comment is actually um geared towards councilwoman Scarpa the best part of hiring or voting on a Professional Services contract is that we get to test them out for a year and if it doesn't work out you have the opportunity to vote no next year we can't do that with a full-time planner who is civil service and would become full-time and the only one that does have the authority to fire them would be the administration we would not so for me that's the plus side and that's why I kind of switched my thought process I have been very vocal about West Orange needing a full-time planner and after I've spoken to different planners whether it's on different County levels or you know Professionals in the state or even M different Municipal level or even on the municipal level excuse me people are shying away from full-time planners they hire firms because again it's it's a One-Stop shop and they have the Staffing the expertise and again if it doesn't work out between the township and that vendor the following year they can put out a new RFQ and hire someone else instead of extending the contract so to me that's the added benefit and plus especially after everything we've been through right like so I just I wanted to Echo that but and on that not I'd like to make a motion to let me Sor I'm sorry so did you have another comment you wanted to make no I just was waiting to see if you had one so I can make the motion so um I wanted to just reiterate a couple things or clarify a couple things so I too was one of those folks who wanted a full-time planner and advocated for one uh for quite some time um and in that and was not able to get that done and in the uh process I learned quite a bit uh about this space and one of the things I learned similar to my colleague here is that um most municipalities because of the flexibility um and the um uh the the breath of resources and services that a firm is able to provide uh are moving away from an employee uh who may have a specialty in one space or another uh and then still have to hire a firm for all of the spaces where they aren't a an expert um so I'm I'm excited to vote Yes for this um uh for that reason and I I just want to clarify though for my colleagues as well as the residents um when uh councilwoman mcara when you mentioned someone like Susan Borg who many in town uh still rever to this day um she was not responsive to Residents she may listen to Residents she may even act on their ideas uh but our employees um they respond to the mayor Township employees work for the mayor now the work that they do benefits the town um they many of our employees go above and beyond the Call of Duty and they will listen they make themselves available uh for various boards and uh other community meetings uh but they take their direction from the mayor and Susan Borg did also I know that's true but I've spoken to many residents who worked with Susan Borg and felt she was incredibly responsive to the residents which is why they want to see someone like that in the role again so no matter who we who we put in that role if it's a full-time employee the mayor uh is is there is their boss um all right so um I'm willing to entertain a m motion there was a motion bywoman Williams yeah oh okay thank you councilwoman Celina to approve yes councilwoman gabber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa no councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes yes he the motion is C and in honor of women's History Month congratulations y congratulations okay thank you all 107 d24 resolution setting forth fees for dog park passes in the township of West Orange councilwoman uh gabber Michael you P that so while I am very excited for a dog park um uh I'm still hesitant I don't think it's fair to charge residents the fee I get that it's nominal I'm okay with charging people out of town again the county doesn't charge residents to use their dog parks other municipalities don't so to me with the taxes that we're already charging residents the sewer fee all these other fees it it just it's just the principle of it so it just doesn't make sense to me so um I would like to make a motion well before you do that can we just have a little more discussion does anyone else want to weigh in but we should actually have the motion and then discussion well no um so I want to make a comment so I think I think that is true what she just said but before we do we may want to amend um and that's why you make that motion so that you can do that so I have a question Mr Abbott um is there a reason why is there anything that would prevent us from incorporating or adding on to the existing dog licensing fee uh so that when you got your dog license you would get your dog park permit I I'll defer to Mr fono if we still on the line I some I think that's regulated by State Statute the the fees but I'm not certain there's fees yes that's so we we couldn't do we all right so okay so you're saying we can't add on to I'm not I'm not saying I'm saying there there are regulations about it Mr can talk maybe more specifically about it certain portion of it goes to the state so there is it is regulated but as far as answer your direct question whether we can just that I I I'll defer on so you have to remember too that some people who get a license don't want the do park right okay um is Mr fono still here Mr fanino can you hear us yes can you hear me yes please continue yes so to to answer the question um it it would have to be separate because by Statute we can only charge um uh x amount of dollars and I I believe off the top of my head I don't have in front of me I think the maximum we could charge for a dog license is $21 so had we incorporated it into the license it would exceed that maximum so if we did it at $10 for residents yes right if we did a lower fee that was under the state statute under that $21 with that be permissible I I I believe it has to stay uh stay separate council president because it's like uh Mr Gro said x amount of dollars of the dog license fee um goes back to the state which funds the the rabies vaccine that we get to you know to offer to our residents for free got it thank you Mr feno you're welcome Council you want did you have a question a comment about this yeah please you want to go first you can go ahead yeah I rather see us truthfully because again this all goes back to you know I commend when we want to do something and the reasons why we want to do it but being the realistic person that I am there's going to be no one out there checking these dog licenses on a regular basis to see who paid and who didn't paid so I think you if you need some funding for the dog park more than likely a licensed person from our town Township is going to go there and um and and and you just bump up the fee I mean where you we get hurt is persons coming from out of town to use the park then you know would not have to pay because again I don't know how you're going to enforce this this is my always been my issue with everything we do we can't enforce it we shouldn't pass it I agree with you because that's what we mentioned last time you can't enforce it well we did talk about some level of enforcement we saw at the last meeting we discussed that it would be just a random um spot cheing and my concern is as I indicated and we discussed you know if we don't have any mechanism to identify who should and shouldn't be there and even without a mechanism if a dog bites you and they leave we don't have any type of controls and I think that's extremely important as we open a dog park because you know there is an assumption that these dogs are all going to get along that's not the case no and so we we we need to I I I I do understand that the $10 fee is just another tax but I also understood it as we've been gifted on this dog park and we have to have some type of money to be able to buy poop bags um there's very limited equipment out there for the dogs I get the need for the funding that's why I would increase the license fee a little bit to well I think that's State regulated so that we can't but I I'm not opposed to a nominal fee even if even if I unless and again it's just if I want to use the dog park it's not because I have a dog that I'm gonna have to pay an additional $10 it's if I want the license the tag so that if I go to the dog park and someone does spot check me I I have a permit to be there I just hope you know I I just hope there's a good enforcement in play because if we're going to do all this then we got to make sure we back it up with enforcement well it's a park and we do have Park security um already discussed this with director K he's going to have his people check this just like they check all the other Parks Council G Michel you had something else so I I still don't believe in charging residents it just doesn't make sense again our County parks in County Parks there's no charge other Parks don't charge um I understand I hear what you guys are saying but just I can't support it so I'd like to make a motion to change residents from $10 to no fee and then non-residents would have to come get a pass $20 if you guys want to if you want well we're gonna lower residents I think we should raise non-residents I'll set it a little bit I just don't think our residents have to pay did you do any kind of um any any kind of uh projections on what it's going to cost to to maintain the dog park yeah on a yearly basis I I mean so we're spin our Wheels I mean how much money do you need we we don't have the data but we don't really have the ability to collect that data it's going to we're going to know more as time progresses um you know we've talked other municipalities and you know there are costs attending to it to replace the bags the the PE gravel and these things it all has to be done um you know we don't have the resources the county has we're municipality well that I know no but other towns do have living charges you know charge can we do would you yeah I think we really do need to you said Livingston was 10 so but I'm double cheing we yeah Associated that should not be passed on to taxpayers who don't use the dog park so I think the people who are going to use it and that's the idea that's what we do with the pool you know they try to keep try to amenze the town as much as we can but we also want to those amenities to be self- sustained and you want them to be vested you want them I think when they you pay a little something you feel like more ownership towards it was there any particular reason why you chose 20 for non-residents could that is there like a statutory maximum for that fee as well no it was what living it's also what Livingston has do they so we checked our neighbors we're in uh we're um competitive with them I wouldn't anticipate a lot of nonr I'll try for this year we could always change it I withdraw my motion then because there's no support for it so I move that we accept the resolution is there a second yeah I'll second okay councilwoman Cino to approve uh yes councilwoman gber Michael no because I can't support charging residents councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay the motion carries excuse me council president can we get a report back after this opens and six months from the opening to know how this is all going if uh well I will tell you poop bags are not cheap yeah yeah no I I no I get all that col is stating too I mean you know residents feel like we just T you know we don't charge for people to go to the skateboard park and I everybody skateboard so you know there's we don't need I'm just making a statement I understand playgrounds right and yeah not everybody utilized so we try to provide very nice amenities but you know we'll we'll see how it goes I just don't we so Mr did you hear councilman castelino she'd like a report uh sent to the council after six months Mr fono after it opens a we should do a nice cost analysis in the first year too that addition that initial uh report should at least have some uh how about a six-month and a 12- month report usage and expenses you know to the extent you I know someone's not going to be there every day all right so 107 passed yes uh we are now on y 11124 resolution authorizing Award of contract for Nationwide cleaning restoration for the year 2024 councilwoman gber Michael yes so I pulled this I remember um several months ago when we discussed this contract my issue was with the amount of days that this company was cleaning um when you guys put out the RFQ did you ask for cleaning for daily because they some of these buildings only get cleaned three days a week some four days a week so we we once again pulled the directors and the staff and it's you know it's cleaned at normal intervals um you know some some facilities are cleaned every day because they're get heavier demand they're open to the public other ones aren't using use that frequently so they're they're cleaned maybe three days a week um we we can certainly write the specs that they're required every day of a week but your your contract might double in price I don't know did any of the directors push back uh or say that they needed not one okay thank you for answering my question I'm Mo that we accept the resolution second any other questions before we take the vote no Madam KK good councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber mik yes councilwoman scorpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president wford yes the motion carries 11224 resolution directing the termination of pending litigation councilwoman gabber Michael yes so as I mentioned in my response to public comment um I don't support this resolution there's no need for a resolution the mayor initiated the litigation we did not therefore there's no need for resolution she can simply withdraw it um so does do make sense I don't even understand why we're even voting on it so um and I will i i u Echo those sentiments councilwoman I think this was just done in poor taste when I initially spoke with um a member of the administration about it I expressed um um significant amount of disappointment um I think the way we're proceeding with this does not uh create Goodwill I think it makes it harder to negotiate um and um I am not supportive of it either the mayor wants to withdraw her lawsuit against the Town Council she is more than uh able to do so and does not need a resolution from us to do it colleagues anyone else before we take a vote or a motion oh no I I got to make a statement so um let's go back in time a year ago which I don't want to rehash all wounds um but um why did the mayor uh place his lawsuit on the council because government was not not moving yeah you you the lawsuit I mean a resolution was passed by the majority of the council and and in that um resolution stated no payment shall be made to Richard Tran or the Tran Law Firm or any other firm so you know to to go back now and say that well we wer you know trying to get rid of Mr Tran and not to rehash all that but you know but that's where it was and and and listen you have your own opinions you have your own reasons I get that but we all know that this could be negotiated I know you disagree with me on that I still think now um we should end this and you should all talk because we're over $50,000 into this just on uh this attorney uh for us and then we're looking at at least $25,000 to move forward and and I think that money could be much better spent um for many other items that uh we need here in the township so with that I would appreciate if U my colleagues um I know how you feel about this tonight but if you can make an attempt and try to come to some agreement but I think we should support this and um be done with it for the taxpayers of this community and to State also that oh well they're working with the contract to cost us money we were still going to pay another firm dollars for the services that we rendered so um I think that's a disingenuous argument um there's some the the um you know the judge you know read reading through this she considers um I said this before about past practice When U Mr Tran and his firm has been one and the same uh for many years uh now and I've seen past practice play out many times when I wore my school board hat for 10 years and again I see this is uh how the judge uh um viewed this as well so I hope you could reconsider I hope everyone could work together and just to put it all on the mayor um again I I think there could have been negotiations done on this side as well thank Youk uh I have some comments to make um but I'm happy to hear from my colleagues before I do so just want to say a couple of things in response councilman celino and I think it's important for the public to know uh why did the mayor file the lawsuit um I understand that the reason that has been offered is that government wasn't working um the reason mayor filed the lawsuit is because we were alerted uh that uh Mr trink in spite of not having a contract and in spite of uh his bills being pulled was potentially still being paid and that is what prompted the resolution the resolution was written because and it was written that way um because I did not want Mr trink as a sole proprietor to uh build the township of West Orange I didn't want Mr Tren to dissolve his current uh law firm and start another one which something he's done five times times since he's been Township Attorney At least uh I wanted to be very clear that it is it is um my sentiment and I believe the will of the town the majority of the Town Council and it is the will because that's how it was voted that no one should do business for this Township without a contract um and he didn't have a contract and so if we were going to negotiate time to do that is before you initiate a lawsuit and so every dime even the dimes that we have spent on uh legal representation in this lawsuit for the Town Council the only reason we have those bills at all is because we were sued um in addition to that um when it says you no payment shall be made to Tran or the Tran Law Firm um and we would have to pay another firm for the same thing if we had to pay another firm that's fine with me as long as they have a contract if if Mr tren's firm had a contract and we pay him legally too um and so so those arguments are not valid the issue at hand is whether or not our Township attorney can direct legal business for the township to his law firm and if it was one and the same it was wrong but even if it even though it was one and the same in all of those years at least that I'm aware of he still went through the same process as every other law firm that was approved he saw a contract and Town Council voted on the contract and for 25 years in a row that contract passed it is only in 2023 that the contract did not pass and and let's be clear we're here because even when the contract didn't pass it was sitting in those seats over there Mr Kaiser you know fell on his sword as as far as I can tell he gave us a memo it was waiting on the table when we walked in council chambers telling us that the mayor could vote to break a tie when the Town Council had a tie that was pointed out that night before the meeting during the meeting that that was not accurate was not right and it was allowed to happen anyway and Mr trink got his contract awarded subsequent I mean within a day or two we had to then resend it because it wasn't right for the mayor to break that tie I understand the mayor wants Mr trink Mr tr's firm to have a contract the mayor has every right to have Mr Tran has her Township attorney and he can be removed for cause with the super majority vote of the Town Council and only with the super majority vote of the Town Council that resolution did not seek to remove him as as Township attorney it s to make sure that he complied with the law and that to this very moment we still are not doing we're 15 months later without a contract and a half a million dollars in bills to this Township that these taxpayers have to pay and that I think is a travesty so again another let me finish I didn't I didn't interrupt you so I I think if the mayor wants to withdraw I think she should if the mayor or you or anyone else wants to find a way out of this without going further down the road I think it's important that we have that conversation um but I do think if we're going to have that conversation it has to be had in good faith I think we have to be honest in our representation of what we're doing to the township and the C of the past week or so have misled the township we have half the township thinking that this lawsuit is over and it is not so um there may be a way forward without further litigation I don't know but I do know that uh was it 112 that resolution 112 is first unnecessary second seeks to take away our rights as a Town Council seeks to to end for both parties with Prejudice any further proceedings the mayor should not even ask us that I think that's now if we want to talk about something being disingenuous that is disingenuous because that that is that is absolutely unacceptable to me it should be unacceptable to the public and I hope my coun Council colleagues vote no on 112 uh did you want to uh respond or can we take the vote no I'm done I I again this I feel this is was personal and political and just disappointed uh in the whole thing Madam clerk I offer a motion to approve uh 112 hold on is there a second no second the motion fails wow look at that you didn't even second huh you didn't even second Let It Go thank you ordinances on second and final reading 28 44-24 an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7- 23.1 turn provisions of the revised General ordinances of West Orange Pleasant Valley Way and Greenwood Avenue is there a motion to introduce on second and final second so move second councilwoman Celina is 2844 yeah councilwoman Celina yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman scar councilwoman Williams yes council president ruber yes pleas ready to say second U yeah have public comment now right public hearing y um Mr oh no sorry if there's anyone in council chambers um and thank you Nish group you're welcome to stay but please don't feel obligated uh we're certainly done with all the business that will affect you tonight uh if there's anyone in council chambers that would like to comment on 2844 uh dealing with the uh turn prohibitions uh on Pleasant Valley Way in Greenwood Avenue you are invited to the microphone now thank you guys and again welcome AB board thank you thank you guys yeah I have a comment uh seeing none seeing none in in council chambers our public comments now closed councilwoman castelino so I had called Mr Moore uh our superintendent superintendent Moore about this because we did have some conversation and part of that conversation um is notifying the the parents of this which is not not a problem he will be more than glad to do so talk to the principal get out on school messenger but more importantly we were discussing uh the traffic issues I know some folks had emailed me after they heard the last council meeting they are working on trying to get um the students to ride the buses because that has been an issue less students have been riding the buses they're trying to get them to take the bus a lot of um a lot of students have been driving a lot of parents have been dropping off um also came across another issue which I've been trying to work out with the chief and it's something that we have to look at in regards to our parking situations around the township um you know we have students parking in the municipal lot uh during the day um up at um on Pleasant Valley Way in Pleasantdale Center so you know that takes spots away for the patrons for the businesses during the day and again you know the students should be parking uh with the parking lot at the high school not taking up um spots so that's something I've been working on with the chief to see how we could um you know what we could propose to the council to um be able to solve that situation um so that's about it so um so do you think that's enough to alleviate the need for this no no no I mean this is you know they're going to have to look you know they're looking at it they are trying to resolve it um Mr Moore thinks the main problem what happens is we have a lot of Staff out there during the high school drop off and then they go inside and then and then there seems to be a little bit of issue when Kelly starts to be dropping off don't forget they have early early drop off for their um their uh their preschool program not preschool but before school program so when the high school staff goes in so so they're you know that he knows he's they're trying to work it out and but this is still needed well you know if the residents want it I you know I guess it's helpful but you know he didn't comment on that he's just working on the issues at hand for the complex I share your concerns councilwoman I don't think this solves the problem I mean it's it's hard to vote no on a resolution like this we had this conversation two weeks ago it's hard to vote no but I just want to be clear I think voting yes is not going to solve the problem uh I think people are just going to pull into the bank and still come out Greenwood even if they don't make the left on to Greenwood um and so you're just moving the traffic issue one driveway down uh and you know you're going to find other folks will figure out a different Solution that's going to cause a problem in other neighborhoods so I applaud Mr for taking a holistic approach to addressing the traffic um and I and I think um I I think that's what's needed um but again it's you know I voted to move it on first reading you know it's hard to vote no on something like this if something goes wrong and I voted no I would feel horrible if somebody's Crossing that street and happens to get hit by a car uh I'd feel horrible so obviously I I can't vote no um but I do want to figure out what we can do and I don't know what the solution is I don't know if um you know our um if if uh zaj Miss carbal director carbal is involved I don't know if The Pedestrian safety Advisory Board is involved I don't know if uh uh nil badani Foundation uh is involved and trying to address some of the pedestrian safety issues um you know which are directly tied to vehicular traffic uh around our schools but I think they should be um as well as at least one one or two of us yeah I had suggested the last meeting that Mike daniller who's a traffic engineer and sits on pedestrian safety and on our zoning board he might be a good person to look at this if somebody could just ask him to weigh in a little brings a lot of value to both of those and uh he probably would be willing to take a look think about it a little bit has anyone reached out to him okay so who should do all right well we so yeah but that's what's need so I I will speak with the superintendent more so do we just want to table this for now what is the yeah I wanted to understand if we're on second reading what would be the process if we do if we don't move it forward tonight no realation I mean could we table this is not eminent we could take you can't table can't take a second I want what is the what would would it then require us just to not legal oh okay we just have to go read it again on first we ever I would think that you would be able to table it if you could and read it again for second reading at the next hearing however um I'd have to double check could we say we want to table it until Mike takes a look at it you can table to a set time but you might not want to be that restrictive because he may not be available and then you've restricted it pending his availability so I would not add a specific name get till we get a professional have table until we get a professional to take a look at it but is it okay you're checking to confirm if we can table on second reading that's correct yeah I don't think there's any reason that you have to vote tonight okay but does that mean we just fail to offer the motion or can we formally table it well you can close your you can close your um what you have I believe your public comment which closed for closes and then you can I think you can I I'll defer the and exact I think tabling is probably but it's been done I've seen it done numerous times in my career my understanding as well so we can table one second i'mna I'm gonna move to table Council Scarpa moved to table and I second it Council I'm sorry I just want to say and when you bring it back it does not require you you can choose to have an additional public comment but there's no requirement because you've already had the public come for this ordinance got it I have a question for the um just before we take the vote Madam clerk uh councilman celino so so Chief say we had passed it tonight where would you put the signage because that's my other issue like we we passed this and I drove by it a couple times uh you know with all that goes on there would anybody even see the signage no because it's so busy that's the concern that's why I'm not supportive I understand councilman um council president Rutherford's sentiments but I think we need a better plan and I think we professional um someone else to look at it our town engineer did look at this so deference to her I don't want to suggest that was who wrote this this plan um the signs you're captive to where you can put them that you can put them on the right side there lot trees hanging down there and you can put them across the street where somebody's to turn left they would turn left they would see them um other than that I I don't know what kind of a plan someone going to come up with for this there's really no alternative this was to um you know to appease the residents on re they don't want traffic turning up the street and turning around and make K turns and so on I think it doesn't solve that problem I think it solves it a little bit the other issue too is that you know people are going to just make the turn anyway yeah that's what I'm thinking they're not you unless we have a police officer there or some other you knowth already there they're just going to make the turn anyway I mean people are rushing to drop off and get to work in the morning and that's really the issue people are rushing to drop off and get to work that's why we had to put the cones in front because people were making the left out of the parking lot and you know causing all kind of traffic nightmares the sign clearly said no left turn and it says it right now at Edison um and people come out of Edison after dropping their children off and make the left turn sometimes it causes uh you know some confusion um and traffic issues so you know I think we we certainly want to be sensitive to the residents on Greenwood we know that they have a quality of life issue and we we want to address it but I think what the council is saying is that we want to address it in a way that makes sense not just for Greenwood and doesn't create the problem somewhere else or we give a half solution and this isn't to criticize anybody but people aren't going to if we put the sign there they're still going to make the left but they're just going to go through the bank well you know I I dis agree some will some won't you know it's just like putting a speed limit sign up on a show some people say it and says 45 they won't go over 45 people do 55 I won't say which members of the council don't listen to those 45 m per hours speing I don't I don't have speed West I don't either um so the motion was offered and seconded to table uh are we ready for the vote any other commentary no more is madam councilwoman celino questions yes councilwoman gber Michel yes councilwoman councilwoman Williams council president Rd yes the motion carries okay all right ordinances on first reading 28 45-24 an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-13 parking prohibited at all times on certain streets and subsection 7- 32.2 restricted parking zones of the revised General ordinances of West Orange this affects 15 High Street 14 Washington Street 16 lellan Avenue and 77 Kirk Street is there a motion to introduce on first reading so move second councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman barpa councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes the motion is carried okay 2846 d24 question I just want to make sure that so what's the process all the residents going to be notified of this obviously they'll get letters I mean there's going to be ample notification for second reading yeah I'll I'll speak to uh our Township engineer you know this all sounds great restricted parking zones but there's very very limited parking down there so um yeah they definitely need an opportunity to address address Us in public cont yeah they I want to make sure they're notified because well I I'll find out I don't be honest I don't know what the Genesis of this particular was this I'll speak with our Township engineer and become Enlighten and take care of the rest it's parking is brutal in that area thank you but this this would be just a question and another question restricted councilwoman this would just be restricted par parking at these particular addresses that are identified it wouldn't be restricted outside of the yeah I didn't get a chance I wanted to talk to her about that and okay sorry know yeah that's okay I noing yeah we can wait it was first reading so I just wanted to I didn't get a chance to look at this one but other than I knew that I wanted to talk to her I just get a chance today to talk to okay okay 20 46-24 an ordinance repealing and replacing chapter 25 section 27 of the revised General ordinances of the township of West Orange and establishing chapter to be determined for Environmental Protection tree protection removal and replacement is there a motion to introduce on first reading don't everybody J okay no motion did I just comment the the administration didn't not change that at all and if if I may I heard some comments in response to the public comments we had a workshop together council president Rutherford you were there Council scarper you were there we talked about three things to add to the ordinance as it was written at that time the three things were the one toone tree replacement which was add it was the changes to the tree removal fund to limit it to 75 Acres I added and then there was the neighbor notification form so that it was the three people across the street and anybody else who's lot touched yours I added it to the best of my ability those were the three things I clarified them at the end of the workshop during the workshop and at the last council meeting on the record they all three of them were at is inaccurate to say that it's that the only difference is between the last one and this one were the three things that I added at the request of the township council at the last meeting by three to two vote so uh it's my understanding and you know I will tell you I I have not read it thoroughly um I did read as much as I could today I had access um issues to my email until literally today from Friday to today um but uh one of the key sentences that I think uh needs to be uh kept in here and my understanding that it isn't how how many healthy trees can be taken down per year two two is that in here can you point me to where that is section four first this two trees and 24 but yes first s so anyone who wants to do any type of renovation and has to remove a healthy tray is now to be told by the township of West Orange that they they cannot do any improvements modifications or adjustments to their property because of a tree removal ordinance no that's not what that means a if if more than that have to come down for any of the reasons you just enumerated that is what the tree fund is for there are other mechanisms to allow for it but those that's for two healthy no talk to uh excuse me I don't believe so I believe the language I flip for it but I believe it says you can't take down more than two trees in a 24 month I thought I thought that's what I read I thought that's what I read you no so Mr Jenaro can you weigh on this because this is what we went back and forth on um it is my understanding that for lot sizes 75 acre or less they are allowed to remove trees for whatever those purposes were and if they can't replant them on their on their property then they have to go to the tree fund fund if you can remove the trees and replant on your property then you don't even need the tree fund but it's only when you can't replant them on your own property that you would then be able to pay into the tree is that not what we discussed it was what we discussed council president so that I would add though is that the way that this ordinance is written is that residents who desire to cut down more than tutes would not have that opportunity regardless if in the instance that for example the velopment application was given a variance or something of the like to cut down more than the two trees or whatever have you then yes we go through the tree replacement process but even if you cut down one tree you have to replace it with like you would have to get a per and you would have to replace it in accordance with the chart that was located at table a but again obviously the forance didn't it failed so well so so here's the thing I I want to be clear on on that particular issue because that's not all right so that's not why I didn't raise my voice um to move it forward um the process as we worked it out in that last Workshop I can't remember how long ago it was I want to remove trees on my property no matter what I gotta apply for a permit correct right Town Forester comes out and inspects the trees right cor and determines whether or not there is a hazard if there's a hazard if the tree is unhealthy if it if it poses some risk to U you know falling on the house or falling onto the sidewalk then there is a process for that and if the if the tree is healthy there's a separate process for that right right now in this case we're talking about healthy trees right so if I want to take down a healthy Tree on my property I apply for the permit the Forester comes out inspects the tree there's a notification uh process that's done and I and unless he denies it for some reason and there are some reasons that he could deny it you know and I don't want to get too far in the weeds but as long as we get the permit then I can take down the tree when I take down that tree my obligation is to replant another Tree on my property so it's a onetoone replacement I take down this tree I plant another one on I'm sorry this is this is uh this is the eight is this the eight to one what are you gonna so yes that was the only thing that I was going to clarify is depending on the size of the tree in ordance you'd have to go through the table a process so if it was a hazardous tree then you'd be correct it would be the one to one replacement on your property um if it were the uh buyable Tree in accordance with this ordinance say you had a say bought ass with like a relatively big tree up front so apparent according to Mr Kip Township Forester there are a decent amount of trees that are 30 inch uh diameter they call it dbh in the tree R so the where the tree is 30 in in diameter you would then have to replace it in accordance with table a with either eight two and a half eight two and a half BBH trees for four 4 in or 44 in and you would have to do that first if you have less than 75 Acres you'd have to first try to do it on your property if you unable to do it on your property you'd have to ask your neighbor when if and when they said no then you can put money into the tree removal fund to accommodate for the say you only have room for one and put money in the tree removal fund for seven um and then if you have greater than 7.75 Acres as it's written right now you would not have the opportunity to remove that tree unless you were able to replace it with the eight or four depending on the diameter trees on your prop that is how this was written right that is my understanding yeah okay now and and to and the reason we got to this point is because of the significant deterioration depletion of our tree canopy correct uh and we've lost something of like 10% of it it's three percentage points but we've gone from 30 to 27% coverage in five years or however many years it was correct and I would say all this is with the caveat that there is a line in the ordinance that prohibits you from removing more than two healthy trees throughout the 24mth period so if you wanted to theoretically remove Three Trees on your lot you would need to get some sort of erance in order right so it's not that it would because you got to go through the permanent process to build something on your property anyway if if if you're just taking the trees down you want more Sunshine that's not going to be approved by the Forester fence not you're building a fence if you're building a fence that's that's you know you're improving your property if I'm wrong correct me the issue is we're trying to stop so we have flooding issues throughout town we have a tree canopy that's now down to 27% we had a presentation by the environmental commission all of whom are as far as I'm we picked by the mayor we had present we had uh testimony in our workshops from our town Forester um all stating how dire our uh situation with regard to our tree canopy is which is why we needed to do something significant to Pro not just protect what we have but to start regrowing it is that is that not what we went through for the last year now yeah so I recognize that this tree ordinance is a very strong tree ordinance it will be the most aggressive tree ordinance in the state of New Jersey how do you know that because I've checked okay I'm glad you know that I I don't know that okay I'm glad you know that this is the first time you've raised that um so yes it is a strong tree ordinance and it's meant to address and and you're welcome to vote no on it if you choose right um but this is what this job sometimes requires making difficult decisions and what we don't want to do is have unintended consequences which is why we're having this conversation right now but we do have to acknowledge the challenge that we're facing with regard to tree coverage and if we're going to maintain the small town field we got to keep trees so so two things here one I just want to get clarification because there's so many diff you know we got hit with a lot of different versions and I and I appreciate everyone who's been working on this I really do um so now we're back down you have to get a permit for a tree that is 2 and a half inches or greater because it was four was the minimal now now you're talking about you know little trees in your flower bed in front I can do with some snippers that I can take some sniffers take that down so but I'm asking like what you know it was at 4 now two and a half is back in here well what we agreed on Mr Jenaro was there what we agreed on in that meeting this comes from the environmental commission and from ourtown Forester are these numbers two and a half inches and four now I do Rec recall in our council meeting landscape that stain a question um so two and a half inches uh you you you're very strong if you can do that with clippers and I I just do it on video so we can see it because that'll go viral you can just get them clippers for a two and a half inch tree two and half inch tree you you would have to be really strong to do that but maybe you can yeah I'm very strong yes um so so I understand your your concern and I think the issue wasn't like if it's a tree I don't I think there are some other things that could that may look like trees and that's part of what the conversation was at least in the back and forth we had around the diameter there are things that are smaller diameter that may um that people may want to take up and not need a permit for I don't I don't know can you speak to that Mr Jenaro yeah why two and a half that's that's a replacement though no no no this is for removal no person shall be granted permission to remove more than two trees blah blah blah blah uh two and a half inches or greater this ordinance was help drafted by our Green West Orange and Council asked me to put it back up a few meetings ago the one that was drafted with the assistance Bar Green must orange recommended 2 and a half inch trees that is why I put it up it was at the direction of the township Council the administration's version of the ordinance I believe when it was put up about a month and a half ago maybe less it was foreign strees so that was not just our Green West Orange that was also myself Council mcara it was prior to that prior to the workshop this was put up prior to the workshop okay so in the workshop we went back over we didn't go over the I don't recall unless I'm mistaken I don't recall going over the dbh of what constitutes we dealt with the three things what we did was prior to that Workshop the council did not vote on the mayor's um version of the tree ordinance we then from the floor we uh offered a motion to put the one that had been agreed on which was multiple the ver which is this version the version that had been agreed on prior to the changes that the mayor had implemented in her version we agreed to put that version back on and when we did that then we scheduled the workshop which had the town Forester the environmental commission our Green West Orange yourself myself and councilwoman Scara that's I think I I think that's correct I kind of lost you a little bit there but yes so essentially what had happened was the administration put on an ordinance it the motion failed to have it be read at first reading then it was brought up at new business I believe that the version that was on before that was helped authored by our green must orange would come back up we went to the workshop we discussed the three things that you wanted me to add into the ordinance I added them and here we are so this came out of that Workshop which I understand so so again it's not you know it's not about who has the strongest ordinance it's it's about what is enforceable I don't I read through this I don't know how we're going to enforce it and and if you and if it's so so can I something let me just let me finish my thought counsel um so if it's so how can I put the right word I'm looking for right now without sounding um and trying to be polite um I just don't want folks I don't want this to work against what you're trying to accomplish because people are going to see this and just go cut down their trees anyway and risk the fine because it's it's too much it's it's Overkill and I get it why but there's got to be a balance because you want to encourage people you want to educate people you want to make sure people do not take down a tree unless you absolutely have to and a lot of you know we had a lot of town trees that got taken down I'm a little sensitive about this because my my daughter's been staying with me because a huge tree went through her front window her whole house right in front of the house came down and thank God that my that she's she's she's fine and and my granddaughter and and it was terrifying it it it was really terrifying this weekend for me so at the end of the day there has to be the right balance because you want to make sure people don't take down trees unless they absolutely have to and some trees that may have to come down that you want to make sure they do come down so nobody gets killed and that's all I'm asking to be done here to go back down to two and a half diameter I'm sorry it that's just disappointing that is well I want four inches there but this this has been so laborsome to review because any other any other time I mean in years past up until we've been recently doing things and even when I was on the school board know you took the current policy and you redlined your amendments and you're able to follow the bounc and ball this has been so confusing and you have to keep going through it you know the last version the four was in now it's out what's in what's out and there's no highlighted or or what needs to be done so and it's not your fault Mr Jenaro there's a lot of there's a lot of uh chefs in this in in in this soup here so it it's and again it's important it's I'm not saying the work doesn't need to be done but if we don't strike the right balance with this it's going to have an adverse effect on what you want it to accomplish and um again do you want to amend it I I like to amend that one thing I I need to amend a few other things that I looked at but then again do do I just is it a waste of my time or we you know is it gonna get over R I have I have spent an inordinate amount of time on this particular ordinance um and listen I I think I think we're moving in the right direction I think we've got to strengthen our tree ordinance if you can offer a reasonable Amendment but I hadn't recommended that that's why it was four because some it was a couple versions ago brought down a two and a half I brought up the four it went back up to four and now it's down to two and a half again follow the b ball that one that the mayor had introduced had significant flows um and had to be redone so we could have uh we could have sat you know all night long and try to amend that and come out with something different or we could have done what we did which was have a workshop and then H and then have representatives from the environmental commission and our Forester we in but if you if you'd like to offer that back in there I I I I think you should and if there are others you may want to offer them as well because I would much rather have this done tonight than have to deal with it any further and we are dealing with some time constraints I'd like to make Amendment for that one there they'll be so you have to spell it up for the clerk but are we is this getting tabled tonight that's why I no we it failed it failed to be introduced but we could then introduce it as amended is that not is that not right in your business you introduce as if you have three votes we we can't I here's the problem councilwoman and I appreciate the the workshops but again if we we would all need to be in it I understand if T proposed a workshop that way we can just talking here about okay I thought you meant with the committee again no no with a workshop I would definitely um support um a workshop I'm very unhappy um with with the some additional items I think it is um more than a notion to ask our neighbors to give consent to remove a tree I think notice to neighbors um is acceptable but consent um runs the gamut of too many um excuses rationals reasons why people would say no and it may have absolutely nothing to do with environmental concerns so I I absolutely hly object to consent so councilwoman you were offering an amendment I'll make this one but I I do like the idea of the workshop I think we need to we have had I know I I spent my spring break last year Mr Jenaro I think Mr trink was on that as well I spent two or three hours uh spring break last year sitting in a a workshop working on this ordinance I mean like this is not new this is I know but recommendations that we've made obviously didn't get in here because they're they're not here and are we made them and and we agreed to something and then they and other things get added to that we didn't agree to or things get changed without notification and then only when someone actually does a thorough reading do we find it I mean so there I made the changes that you asked me to make I'm not talking about this version Mr Jenaro please don't don't uh take it personally it's not about this this is over a year yeah in making or about a year in a making but but again it wasn't it's in it's out it's in it's out so it's not that easy of a read so if so may I please propose that we do an afternoon Workshop during lunch a one hour Workshop like 1200 to 1 yes where we're all on Zoom yes you know and then we sit here and go through it from the beginning section by section to see what changes we have to do because I think that makes the most sense yes you know can you make a motion to see that so yes I made that I second I I'll I'll second it I did already can we take out our calendar no let's we have to vote first and let's do the calendars and new business hold on I'm sorry you're making a motion to do a workshop Zoom Workshop already yeah I think I think we have to to AG need to make a mo do a workshop look we're making a motion to do a workshop so we can stop debating back and forth you don't have to do okay well then let's if everyone's in agreement then you know that's not necessary all right fine can we do it this Thursday in the afternoon I can yeah this week's week yeah this do you think it's real for an hour you did it cannabis or whatever Thursday I can't it's yeah I cannot do it Thursday yeah I cannot celebrate Easter early it's m Thursday I cannot do it on Thursday I cannot do it on Friday I cannot do it on Saturday yeah I don't you guys get on Tuesday um so next week because councilwoman's off of school next week so maybe easier Yeah Tuesday would work for me I'm on spring break with my daughter oh no you don't want to be and and if we don't do it earlier in the week I have surgery schedule Thursday for my knees so I'll be out at the next meeting I'll be on Virtual depending on how the pain level is so now you're looking at the first week of April a second week of April which we have a council meeting on that Tuesday and then we're time what date is our next council meeting nth it would have to be on the eth in order to be considered it couldn't even be consider right which is also newey local government week they need it by Wednesday April 3rd in order to get it on the agenda so that's not gonna happen it's [Music] it's if we're gonna do this it would only be able to happen next week April 1 or the 2 and you're on spring break are you out of I will support your 4 Ines if you make that Amendment uh councilwoman uh I'm happy to to look at other amendments I would I think we need to get this behind us the mayor has I think May f is it May 1 uh Mr rabbit where the deadline is to have the um tree chart that's that's my understanding for the grants right maybe we should just do the first reading and then make some am so so for the grants you you have like we have a strong ordinance to begin with like what what why do you need this done for the gr jaro can clarify that that that's where I'm confused Mr RIT we have a very weak words the existing is very weak that's the whole that's the whole problem whole Genesis of why we're doing what we've been doing for the last year trying to get a stronger tree with now arguably too strong it's not strong enough I everybody has their own position with that but the one that's on the books now as I understand it is is very lame and that's from our environmental Commission R West Orange Green from um the Forester I I haven't heard anybody say that's a good ordinance I thought we we well maybe I is aing on this like we need that chart don't we need that chart uh Mr jingar yeah I I think we need to have a workshop next week again the model tree ordinance that the state has proposed has the chart has a chart in it for tree replacement in order to get the excuse me coun I understand is that in order to get the grants the ordinance Township ordinance has to comply Not Mirror the model tree ordinance obviously but it has to conform with the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection model Tre ordinance so again I've circulated that I'm happy to circulate it again if it's easier it's only about five pages the model tree ordinance exactly it's not a not a long read so um I just did our Green West Orange send you an email with the changes that were apparently made did you get a chance to look at that when you say the changes that were apparently made I got sent an email this one that's this one hasn't been changed it's not a different ordinance which ordinance are you referring to I was sent an email okay I was sent an email from Joyce Ren barer and West Orange with comments right of Redline version to the ordinance purportedly and I don't want to speak firm because I don't know this for 100% fact because I didn't get to talk to them purportedly done by Paul tracker I then sent it to Karen to circulate to the township Council because in the full interest of transparency I received it so I circulated yeah I mean I saw that I skimmed it today too I just saw it today though uh which is part of the part of the issue um do you have this let me show them I didn't know I wasn't instructed I should add by joy to circulate to everybody I just did it as a courtesy no it's all right nobody's complaining about that apprciate no that's not a criticism of view I know there's a lot of mistrust but that that wasn't what that was meant to convey I don't have that I mean we can't do this on the Fly it's too serious so we have to have we have to do this in a workshop and we have some some time constraints we have to we have to make some concessions councilwoman I will remind you when we were working on the time constraints for cannabis you flat out refused to even consider making any accommodation for folks on on the weekend so it is not true you cannot say what I made accommodations for anything if I'm not available I'm not available you just said you're not available I work on Saturday and Sunday so councilwoman you said flat out I won't do it on a Saturday I'm not available I cannot do it on Saturday I work don't tell her to stop I have a job you can't do certain things on Sunday because you are pastoring your church I your job and your demeanor is just beautiful helpful tell me what I said last year well that's exactly what you said it is not what I said it is I said I was not available and that's the same thing just go read the tape I don't have to read the tape I know what my availability is so I don't want to argue with you because I think it's challeng please don't and don't talk tell people what I said you are you wow you are amazing I am very impressed we need a workshop we need a workshop so listen I will tell you I am not available this week I am not available next week isn't that what you just said that I said but that's a crime no you said any Saturday you said any you said I'm not available this week or next week I said I wasn't available for a day no you said any Saturday I work on Saturday coms look she says okay for example that's theed it's right there my point the wrong right for us to go through this with the attorney exactly what's the other one what's the other definition that I was P it's right here page I mean thank you Mr J you could send me that as well that I sure will that's why I think we should do a workshop and get this done just so we're clear I believe that that I believe that that is not accurate as to what was actually deleted from this version you can just looking at invasive vines on that sheet it says that it's deleted but it's sitting on page the this is this very painful read so okay what's next on the agenda because either we're gonna do excuse me Council excuse me so so Mr jengar if we made an amendment to uh which I don't if we went from Two and a Half to 4 inches uh dbh for uh healthy trees that had to be removed if we made that amendment is that substantive would that require us to start over oh no yeah yes I have one other comment too just so you could think about it the0 75 I'm thinking you know just when you read legal St the point to be grammatical ER can we say instead of 75 okay thanks did anybody do an analysis to identify how many properties that we have of our households and and what the actual um average lot sizes are what the average lot sizes are in our our forest to offer testimony to that effect Yeah question it's what the average lot size 16 I don't know what the average box size is but it's definitely far below what you say7 five was testimony from our Forester was that the majority of the Lots in town are less than a half acres Absol yes absolutely so listen I think we can councilman sorry council president TR to you if we can just take a five minute recess I don't think this is ACC accurate I'm find Mr dangero is correct I'm finding things in here that I see were clean to have been deleted but have not been deleted because they're in dis ordinance is it possible to reintroduce it didn't get voted there was no vote motion someone made a motion and failed to get a second no no one made a motion no one made a motion no oh no one make a motion no can we first reading and then just make couple changes on no because there going to be substant changes I could tell right now I don't think so I think I don't think I'm looking at see well she wants four inches that's that is subst so so so introducing it on first reading now as amended would require us to to then hear it on first reading in two weeks is that what you're saying no what I'm saying is if you want to amend it to the four inches then that's a substantive change to the ordinance so it' have to be read on first reading for the next council meeting that's just a different understand what I just said well the way that I interpreted what you just said was that essentially we would have to have two different first readings but there's something in between there's a substantive change I think we just have to get it for on first read all right so councilwoman I'll tell you um I would support your that change if you want to amend it down the road but I do think in the interest of time we we should get this we should get this behind us so uh I offer a motion that we introduce on first reading is this 2839 no what is this I want to also Administration H like this whole neighbor how that's gonna work 4 it's uh yeah 46 I'm sorry wait what is this 2846 2846 I'll second it all right to introduce on first reading okay hold on okay uh councilwoman celino to introduce on first reading I'm gonna I don't want to say no C well I have I have a couple changes that are going to be subsid so I guess I'm staing on first reading then so hold on wait so the deadline is yeah we no we're not gonna make it because our first meeting of May is after May first deadline we can have a a temporary I mean a call meeting if we had something that was for example the passed on first reading before the May one deadline we can make some phone calls to and there are other you know sent over to the D for example if we applied for these ranks sent over to the D the version of the ordinance that's going to be let's say second reading by may I don't know throughout a day 10th then you might be able but I don't know for I don't know if we can chance it because it's grant money right yeah I don't think we want to chance losing Grant [Music] I see this is right it's in here so this is not no it's not that's what I mean like there's so many why would reading knowing that there are substantive changes and we'll have to come back talking about something else I think we should just go I think we should go ahead um so listen if you support on first me and we need to make changes we can get in the two weeks time frame we can get clarification whether or not they will accept Mr J what Mr Jenaro said about introducing on second reading early in May if they won't then we can consider passing it and then make the amendment after the fact but I don't want to miss out on on grant money I I think we need to move on it yeah we need well why so I can't amend this to four inches now clarification to this will have to go to the planning board we're moving from my understanding is it has to go to the planning board because we're moving from chapter 25 and implicating chapter we really need to get this done so just so we're all on the same page yeah so we do we we but I will I'm already on the record all of this is recorded I will support at least the four inches that you're requesting but I have some other so we can get to that we just need to give the mayor what she needs I mean I I'd rather go over it tonight finish the meeting it's that imperative a month what time is it it's only 9:40 this is early for us yeah I think we need to just move it well councilwoman would to go through and make make some amendments but now that then resets the clock for us because you have to notice it for first reading is that right I do have to notice it but it also has to go to the planning board need to get to theard we go by their schedule so their next meeting I will work with you I will work to them does it goes to them after first reading correct okay to be reviewed and you know make their comments suggestions whatever move it but just because their meeting is next Wednesday doesn't mean that this is getting on their agenda this is not on the agenda for next Wednesday I think the agenda went out today right so we can we get any emergency slipping or no because it requ 10 days notice for the planning board to notice you got problems yeah so then I mean there's an opportunity for to be on the on oh no that's right that the only no there's a there's is there a second meeting in April what well not anymore I don't believe so one one month meeting mon yeah I thought we had me oh no that was this month we had two that was a special meeting By Request okay um all right so we still got to get on the clock anyway like if we don't do this part tonight there's no way they can do their part so we at least have to figure move it so that they can do their part right I think we have to do it tonight so pres did you make you made it's been motion seconded we're waiting on councilwoman celino for her vote yeah I I I would I need some other I need some more time on this tonight I don't care if we do to do my questions tonight but I don't wanna if you want to get the other stuff done and then we come back to it but councilwoman if we if we do that tonight we then have to re we have to put it on for first reading at our next meeting which would I completely preclude any opportunity to get this done get enough done by the May one deadline because the planning board still has to hear it and they got to send it back to us and then we can if it's not a substantive change then we can introduce it on second reading and that would give Mr uh Jin uh that would give the mayor the ability to then you know apply uh and with Mr Jenaro making the stipulation that we're getting it done if we don't do it tonight right we're gonna have to do the change we're not GNA have enough time we get to we may be on first reading we've already been told that even your 4 inch Amendment will require a substantive change and we will still have to go back to First reading that's what that's what's been established so there's no getting around that if we're going to amend it to four inches it still will have to go and you're asking and I support those I support four Ines I think two I've already expressed it I think two and a half inches so we're gonna unac first reading the subs just to get on the record yeah for the grant and then we it will go back on first reading again when we do our workshop and make whatever other well we'll make the Amendments no we're gonna we're gonna go through this process and and then we'll make the Amendments you know after we get through second reading so oh no no no let's just vote vote no yeah I'm gonna vote now I mean there's just the whole but listen I I want to encourage to move you all also because you have a lot in here with a process that is not going to work and I want to hear from Administration are you prepared tonight because I I'm willing to I rather get it done tonight but well we're waiting on your your v i mean I went through this myself and made a lot of edits and notes the other day and you know on on page seven 4 10 11 and 12 are all going to require an engineer report so somebody's going to take a tree down and they fall within any of those criteria they're gonna have to what I'm sorry have to get an Engineers report oh absolutely it's not a resident that's gonna be able to to the birds how how do we the migrant Birds how do we identify what the migrant I haven't figured that one out but you're gonna have to get obviously a resident can't certify that that tree is not used for migratory birds have to get some type Forester can't certify that either I'm sorry the Forester can't certify that either no the resident's going to have to get a report from bird specialist so who is the bird specialist in the state of New Jersey that's right I'm sorry who is a bird specialist that would certify this in the state of New Jersey who would hold those credentials I have no idea we're gonna have to research it and figure it out because the resident's going to have to do this so we're going to have to figure this stuff out of what was discussed during that Workshop was um having a spot on the website that included all of that right information yeah that was what we but somebody's got a certified that's the that that's the bigger part so if you're if you're the resume you're taking the tree down you're GNA have to certify that that's not used by a migratory bird so you're gonna have to have an expert for you're not gonna be able to do it yourself I just did a quick Google search and there are a few responses do any otherin several respons any other municipalities have this I did not I I looked at 10 10 to 15 different municipalities and I did not see that anything like that in any ordinance I mean I don't know the answer to that is that something we I'm sure I mean there 56 municipalities in New Jersey but yeah I mean there's a a quick search and there are responses but the the point where is whether it's great perfect good or or or not we are running up against time yeah we can strike some of these things out if we're going to take the time to go through it this evening I'm more than willing to do that it's just things in it we keep saying the same thing there's substantive changes that we want to make you're suggesting that we go through them tonight if we're going to go through them tonight that's fine let's go through them there are several changes we can't go through them to so either we go through tonight or a workshop if we if we go through them no if we go through them tonight we start the clock back over right they we're gonna start the clock back over even if we only do the 4 inch diameter change corre no understood if we if we make a sub second hold hold on a second hold on a second if we make a substantive change to 2846 we start the clock over correct that puts us at the first meeting in April to introduce on first reading right that means the planning board doesn't get it until May and so you know pass the deadline hold on a second which is past the deadline that we need to we Mr Jenaro just said if we are able to demonstrate that we are introducing it on second reading by early May then there's an argument we could still be in the running to get some of these grants what none of us want to do is put us in a position where we can't get the grants introducing our first reading at our next meeting in April precludes us from making that deadline um but this isn't a document that I am in favor of just v no understood understood therefore I am not confident um that even if we pass it on first reading that the changes will be implemented you all are trying to pass it in an is version that that's disingenuous if we know we want disingenuous is crazy to me I don't know if we really understand what that word means we are in a vote can we take the vote educated yes let's just Mo okay so councilwoman Celina you said no I I I don't you know I wanted to pass something I was going to will to work on it tonight but yeah right now I I can't do this why do we still have a workshop let's passes have a workshop and implement the change I'll pass it on first reading but I'm not passing on second reading changes aren't made okay so we have one yes can revise it like we do we're doing ordinance oh my revision is gonna kick it to because here so here's the other question I have this goes to the planning board and they have recommendations they want changes what happens to it no listen listen it goes to planning board they say hey Council we have recommendations for changes you're not making their recommendations well decide whether or not you're going to accept they're advising us we don't have to accept the recommendations let's get them non-binding recommendations let's get it moving council president you have to follow you you you you can follow them or you can choose not to follow them for for cause you have to you have to say the reason and then you can you you move forward with that and that may meet that may require an amendment and there's a process so my question is can we vote to pass this on first reading then vote to pass it on second reading in between that time have a workshop so we can make amendments just like we're doing now at the Cannabis ordinance that is my question to the administration right but you have to remember that when you pass it on first reading it has to go before the planning understand and it goes to the planning board and it goes probably not going to go to the planning board until so why don't we wouldn't they get it to my knowledge there is no specific Grant right now that that this is impact so the way explain to me Mr gross was that if we missed the deadline then it doesn't matter when we submit it and Mr Jenaro you can correct me qualify for the way it was explained to me is if once we miss the deadline that's it for this year we can figure it out next year I don't think that's the case well that's that's how I was explaining can I make a just finish can you answer can't or do you know I'm not 100% sure what I know is that at the last Municipal land use board meeting they had stated that in order to have access to certain grants then the ordinance need to uh comply with or conform to the New Jersey Department of environment protection model or I have not gone through to see when the grants restraints there are what the due dat for applying to them is I have not done that that research who stated that that we would lose grant opportunities well it's on the um New Jersey D website there's no question that there's you know they're dangling you know carrots to to to get towns to move there's no question about that yeah and and I I find it while it's not impossible it's it's hard to comprehend that you would if you didn't get something done especially as new as this is uh within a very short time know that you would lose an opportunity for a year to to that that that doesn't seem reasonable um certainly something we can look into and find out you know but again it this is there's 564 municipalities that have to do this I mean even even the State Processing that of who's done it who hasn't done is going to take longer than the time frame we're talking about so I I got to think so it just it doesn't seem plausible that we're that we're that we have to get something done in the next 30 days or we're going to lose grants for a year that just doesn't I I wish someone would have shared that perspective because the perspective that's been shared up until tonight was that if we didn't get it done by May 1 we were going to be out of the out of this cycle for grants that required a tree and that was my understanding too same that's that could happen I'm not 100% sure that that won't happen the deadline was January 1st the state DP extended it to May 1st it may turn around you know extended three more months you don't know but as you know there's 500 some municipalities that are to adopt new ordinances and I'm sure a lot of them are going through the same hand ringing that we are and it I I can't see us losing these grants but I can't promise you that either of course the the easy solution here is to adopt the is is to go ahead and adopt the the model ordinance tempor you know at first and then move on and make amendments to get it the way you want it and that would cover all bases but here here's the thing I'm looking at the calendar whether we passes tonight on first reading or in April you're you it still has to go to the planning board before we pass it on second reading so I don't understand why we're even like still talking about this so we should just make a date yeah is Monday April 8th good for everybody to have a meeting and then we have do Monday April e but here's the thing when when is the planning board meeting in May that I don't week you're having your surgery yeah a few days before so then so then put your edits in a few a few days I can I got it right here it seems to me and you know comp the C the council wants to do something on this but s so far has not been able to come to an agreement onto what to do at a very minimum the state the state model ordinance touches the basis for for all the grants yes so why don't we that yeah adopt this one and then we can amend it later because this one has a lot going on and we need to I would rather adopt this one and then amend it a little bit would but but and and the problem is if people don't follow it and just start chopping down trees anyway it's not you're not accomplishing anything I'm not trying to be difficult I'm trying to be realistic that's the same issue we have with almost every Enforcement issue in town yeah there was so much agreement but yeah but if they go out and chop trees down that's devastating other other ordinances you you know you could bypass but not once you remove a tree you ain't getting it back we gotta decide what we're doing we're either gonna vote this vote for this on first reading we're in the middle of a vote we're gonna have to finish the vote we're in the middle of the vote finish the vote let's go 10 o'clock now okay councilwoman gber Mich oh what was your vote I'm know okay councilwoman gber Michael yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams no council president Rutherford yes okay so the motion carries umber on his version too 2847 d24 an ordinance supplementing chapter 14 and establishing a section for lead-based paint Hazard inspection requirements for rental dwell ings to the revised General ordinances of West Orange lead based paint Hazard inspection requirements for rental dwellings is there a motion to introd First well before we do I wanted to um just State on record just like with the license fee for the dogs we had all of this conversation uh around charging residents more um and in this particular case we've got a similar thing we're going to be charging um you know property owners more we we we just raised the sewer fees we had a property tax increase last year we're coming into what I expect to be a tough budget this year um unlike two or three dollars this isn't two or3 or five or t0 this is I so I I don't I don't I'm not happy with this um I lead based paint is a problem there's no question about it we we need to make sure that we have um you know better enforcement um make sure that it's not in there but you know I'm concerned with raising fees on every single thing um in town I see you ready to to to address that Mr gross this is a service this is something that we must do so we're either doing it and paying for it out of the TA out of tax dollars or we're going to do it based on a fee for those that are impacted by this came down from the state this is a state law yeah I can't do it yeah so this is you know this is this is not about whether whether we're going to do this this is about I know whe whe whe whether whether it's GNA be paid for by a pool of tax property taxpayers or by the or by the property taxpayers who are actually so it's either a user fee or a general tax that that's what this is so this this is um a new law that is imposed and goes into effect July 1 one at a time one at a time one at a time councilwoman Williams this is a new law that goes into effect July 1st and it is on the um responsibility of the so homeowner who is renting their property to have a lead inspection there's several different vendors who offer the service um to be performed but this is a state requirement you cannot rent out your property um after July 1st without the certification um in other communities it is not a uh see that the municipalities are incurring it is being passed on because again it's the responsibility of the homeowner to have the certification betting that their home is lad free so what's the cost for this so um resolution say it didn't say what the cost is but the cost is basically set by whoever the agency is um I just reached out there was a there's actually a local uh agent who reached out to me today to let me know that they do the service but they didn't have a fee schedule in um so I needed to check that because I have some rentals in West orang we're in the process of doing a procurement and and you know has it's it's GNA it's gonna raise the fee is gonna be part of the procurement process it's G because of the the amount of money we're talking about it's going to go over a threshold we have to do a competitive process I understand so you don't know you don't know what knowbility and I and I I think it's going to be at least Le a $100 inspection minimum at minimum that's what I'm saying at minimum it's going to be at least a $100 inspection's more than there's there's more to it than just an inspection it's the what if once once you it's the remediation or it's the management of it over a period of time so there's a lot to this well if it's detected you can't even rent when you when you say easy like that it seems to me like got an idea whatever this range is going to be what what what do you think what do you yeah I would say it's again if it's it's it's going to be an inspection fee which is I'm I believe it be north of $100 but you know we'll see we we'll see is a letter going out to all the homeowners well that we know that that are you know within that realy them because they're going to be angry they're going to think municipality is doing it but this is a great education campaign to be like look it's not us it's the state we don't have a choice yeah because I already can see we're going to get calls and messages if you rent your place through a real estate agent the Realtors um are required we are required we have to go through training it's mandated by the state so that we can advise our clients on surprise to them so it's not it's not going to be a surprise it's part of doing business yeah any further questions comments it was introduced uh someone offer the motion seconded no was not you did the first you did the first I'll do the second councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman farpa councilwoman Williams yes council president Redford yes the motion is carried pending matters new matters Council discussion yeah I have some comments under the council discussion uh sure councilman thank you um I sent information to my Council colleagues over the weekend about a finance class Municipal budget what is expected of the elected officials what our role and responsibility is I it was taught by a um local resident who has a business and been in business for over 20 years I'm teaching this class to um different municipalities in the state of New Jersey and as a consultant um one of the things that was brought to our attention and certainly um if it's not our administration's practice I do understand and respect that but it was recommended that we get an accounting on a monthly basis um so that we can see where we are is that something we've ever done in West Orange sure we yeah can we can we make sure on a monthly basis our council members actually get um our expenditures what's for them allocated that I think it it was mentioned that it would also be helpful when we're actually in the budget process um to see things going on a monthly basis so that we don't have as many questions when we get to the final budget thank [Music] you all right any anything else yes I have something yes sorry well councilman GB Michael is um trying to excuse herself so if we can let her go first don't we have a session yeah but if you guys can call me I'm a lot of PID actually you need to be involved with the what I have okay yeah so unfortunately I'm sorry do you want me to go no you can go first okay so um it came to my attention that our second meeting in April is scheduled for Monday the 22nd however that's the first night of passover um and originally um I was told it was the 23rd and the 24th um that I couldn't schedule the meeting so so um you can't they they frown upon scheduling any meetings the first two nights of Passover and the last two nights of Passover so um so would that would the 24th be acceptable the 24th is acceptable and there's no other meetings going on that night as far as planning zoning all that thing time for is that your recommendation that is my recommendation I'm good with that good what time same same time everything just the date changed oh oh gonna kill uh Wednesday May 24th it is what it is oh wait a minute I'm sorry what day is April 24 tell your husband you're married to West Orange yeah he already knows that sure very happy to hear that yeah I'm good on April 24th good on April 24th I am all right thank you everybody I'll I'll do the 48 hour notice I'm sorry Michelle did you want to do 25th I mentioned the 25th I'm sorry I couldn't hear you it was the meeting 2 that's correct trying to think what committee meetings are that I think we're good right last April we don't have any think where do we stand with the Cannabis ordinance are you sure you going to the 25th you want me to check tomorrow to see if there's any you can't do the 25th last two and the first two sorry so it's either 24th or the 29th yeah oh what did you miss say something her anniversary anniversary oh that's what that whole I know why yeah be happy invite him to the meeting it's during the week we we'll try and keep it in have a motion to hold on uh where do we stand with the Cannabis ordinance so I know that Mr Moon sent around memo didn't read it and I haven't read it and yeah understanding discuss need new workshop date to continue going through the ordinance didn't we decide that we we pick a new date Workshop I know well the date we've got to pick too is is the budget when we're going to do our budget review Mr uh like we should start reserving dates yeah I got a busy [Music] spring um so let's at dates for cannabis Workshop how about Thursday the 11th something on the 9th 9th yeah we do it after or something so don't that's too long yeah we can't wait that long that's I figured if we have a after oh yeah no no after the council meeting we don't want to be here till 2 am we're get we're getting so good at it we're moving so long so we might surprise us yeah we're just bre right what are you all discussing right now a workshop cannabis Workshop so okay tra yeah no no so we're not amending the four inches we introduced on first reading we're going to discuss what else can be done but we do need a work we do need to know what kind of time frames we working with so the administration will come back and confirm the grant um timeline timeline and then attempt to do that yeah I don't know that there's any grants available right now right so if we could find that out that would be helpful because then we don't have a time front right get okay so if there no grants that we can apply for before June 1st because essentially that's the time period that we're looking at if it has to go to the planning board and then come back to us on second reading so so also clarify make sure that it's not just whether or not there are deadlines after May 1 it's that if this deadline if the state doesn't extend it make sure that that doesn't preclude us for app from applying for the rest of the year there's a number on the website on the league of municipalities website for somebody over at their office I think he's in some sort I think he's an assistant attorney over there so I'll give him a call tomorrow and I'll see what kind of information I can get from so so you're question is does it lock us out or does it just push the date right right because if it pushes the date then then then once you pass it then you can apply or whatever after that but if we get locked out for the year yeah that's I think a little I I can make a few phone calls and try to figure out as much as I can thank you well that and I recommend Mr Jara that you speak with Katherine kapor our grant writer she's like awesome at Millennium yeah I mean she's get information reach out to you in the morning yeah she's everything's on her radar she may know at the top of her head all right can we get a date for this cannabis Workshop uh please what else do we have to talk about with that parking we really we didn't finish going through we didn't have time there was quite a few things do we need a whole Workshop I thought we just had talk about I thought we the only one that I can recall but I'm going up the top of my head is is parking um yeah can't we just resolve and I well only go to 600 uh square feet I think the warehouse Mr moon what Mr Moon recommended and I uh reached out to our zoning officer who uh supported verbally uh what Mr Moon uh said in our meeting was what I had proposed in the in the workshop was exempting micro actually I proposed something different what Mr Moon proposed in the workshop was exempting micro cultivators from the parking requirements um councilwoman Williams um made a comment regarding um having our zoning officer weigh in I reached out to her spoke to her uh her initial concern was that we were taking the advice of a council that did not represent West Orange I clarified for her that it was actually Mr Moon that gave that advice and she was fine with that but she did state that she would send something out at her earliest convenience now I haven't had access to email since Friday um till today uh so I don't I didn't I don't see it but that doesn't mean I have everything I have some some big gaps at least from a Time standpoint where some stuff may have come out but I don't have it in in writing from her but I have no reason to doubt that she would change her mind especially since all five of us heard Mr moon in the workshop I also had a conversation with her yesterday because I was going over the zoning with her in regards to you know the whole intent of raising it to 400 was to you know increase the parking at that level because it was considered Light Industry a warehouse she did confirm is 600 600 per one and I'm comfortable going to that limit but not higher I I can entertain the exemption for micro businesses um I think that's something we should look at but at the end of the day I I think that exemption might have to be extremely contingent on availability um I understand that the parking requirement is restrictive based on their number of employees and the spaces that they may need so if we were to go up to 600 and they are um maxed out at 200 square feet then that would give them five spaces that they would need well no because it's they have I think the way the the goes by the building side yeah it's not just the the amount of grow in the cultivators uh they can have up to 200 square fet dedicated to grow but the parking requirement is DED is based on the number of square feet of the actual building so I well so you could have a 10,000 square foot building have 200 square feet of grow and still be a micro but then have to have uh you know even if we went to 600 I I thought they were limited on how big their entire space could be well I'm pulling numbers out of the air but I don't I think that's actually a they're supposed to be 2500 no no no building total square Mr Jenaro can you clarify for that that for us yeah I'm they can expand it and to my understanding the one spot was half of it was 2500 to use for the micro and then the other half of the building was going to be used for office use which there and ultimately 2501 for every 250 well that that the the one project that we can speak to with regard to the details is the one that's before the planning board now that one has 2 200 square feet of space dedicated to grow it has other space dedicated to you know operations that are not cultivation that are not grow business Mr merson's letter I read it that way okay well R reread that letter that his asked his ask was for uh one one uh one parking spot for a th000 square feet yeah I know but if there's office space going to be rented out on part of the building office space you have other customers right I I I don't know that we could exempt because because then you then that it's a building with other right and if it's a building that has other uses or occupants or you know the problem with that space is because well let's not let's not just let's deal with it like in general for every well well so I will because the whole idea of light industrial and warehouse is because our industrial spaces are very limited and that's for a reason because they're surrounded by Residential Properties and you know so especially with the apartment building across the street as we all know you know in that area parking's very tight and limited I believe we may have permit parking Chief do we have per permit parking at Lafayette Park for residents in that parking lot or did he I know freefor all over there we even get into tonight but there's severe parking issu but there's parking issues over there so you don't the less thing you want to do is if they don't have ample spaces is to push that parking out to the street with you because we have enough issues as it is as you know we see restrictive parking ordinance tonight so unfor I know it's unfortunate I know it's frustrating for all the investors and I know one one one's here tonight looking to invest in town but we are what we are like like we have industrial bordering residential we have you know mixed use proper so if we were to go to the light industrial usage with 600 feet as the requirement that's 400 no no light Industrial is six not light industrial we just said is six no Warehouse is six light industrial is four we're already at four okay so whichever is the correct label for six that would be Warehouse Bas okay so what my question is is then given that increase alone does that still meet their needs I know Mr mcferson is asking for something different a thousand but would the 600 accommodate their needs but it would give them more but would give them more spaces but here's where I'm confused wait wait I want to understand because he's sitting on the bo board listening to the to the application how many spaces are they required to have 10 24 um no so whatever the math works out to be let me see it's uh uh I think it was 24 well under the 250 one for every 250 it's 40 he's 400 he's 400 that's light that's light Industrial so under the all right so he's not that's right he's not yeah so under the 400 you're right is 25 I think they have eight I'm going off memory but I mean just be clear I think I think we need to yeah I think we need to I think we need to not do it for a particular no you're absolutely correct absolutely so in general the argument around micr cultivators was a couple of things number one micros are have they're maxed out at 10 employees and they generally work in three shifts so there's generally speaking for micro cultivators the maximum number of employees on site at any time maybe five probably four sometimes three three shifts yeah what three shifts because I understood that they couldn't be open at night only for deliveries so um no they don't take deliveries at night deliveries are during the day um but it's not like you're going 24 hours a day you I don't know if it's going to be you know 38 hour shifts and there's no overlap I imagine that there is some overlap um but we I think the way the Ordinance Works is they're like it might be 8 in the morning to 7 PM is that right right that's why I was wondering how you anybody there in the overnight cultivation yeah it's not no but it's still multiple sh they keep lights on it yeah and I don't know that it's anyway the it's multiple shifts I think it's three at least that's the number that's sticking in my head it's not that it's three eight hour sh and there's no overlap the ordinance has them at sometime in the morning to sometime in evening let's say 8 in the morning to 7:00 p.m. and they have their employees come in throughout that period of time um because they're maxed out at 10 employees so even if you wanted to say it was two uh which you know that's 11h hour uh that's an 11h hour day 8 8: AM to 7: p.m even if you said it was two you know if everybody showed up that day that would be maximum five employees on site at any given time they're maxed out as micros at 10 employees so that was the the first thing uh the second thing is um uh micro cultiv so because micro cultivators generally speaking don't have any outside traffic aside from the employees so they're not with very few exceptions having tours I know we had a tour but with very few exceptions they don't have people that aren't uh authorized be in the building just can't go in the building so you're not g to have outside traffic just popping up you have to have the loading zone you have to have a loading they do have a loading zone they do have to have a loading zone you know whoever comes to the building they're going to have to have a way for secure deliveries and for you know distribution um but again that's not a that's not someone who's going to sit there and camp out Park their vehicle for a period of time they're coming they're going to drop off whatever they get pick up whatever they're going to get and leave so the need for the parking spaces for micr cultivators in particular and we were all in this this isn't this isn't planning board this was in our cannabis workshop with Mr Moon the need for cannabis for micro cultivators in particular uh when it comes to parking is significantly less than almost any other uh license Class um so if you're only going to have you know four or five people at Max you know why do you need you know 20 20 parking spaces well so what's the office space going to be using I think they had 10 well well well so what he's stating is for here's the problem with with is that it's a larger building and potentially he could expand which is great I'm not you know you know not worried about that but again you there are rent that top of the building or wherever the space is that they're not using well we're not going to do it for that one particular bus no because then you have to go to the but again it's it's I guess the planning board would still have to prove it and that would not and so micros are kept at 10 employees if you want to apply for a annual license that's no longer 10 employees that's a different but what was if they get their license and they expand it then and they have room in their building well to expand Beyond 2 200 feet of grow you'd have to be an annual license holder you can't be a micro and then we're only we're talking about only allowing an exception to micr we're not talking about so even for them to expand once they have their micro then they are still going to have to comply with the parking restrictions for whatever the next level is and if they couldn't accommodate it there if they were no longer a micro they'd have to find another location and get support from the counil I got a I got a or apply for a parking variance because you or get or get you can't apply for a parking to the planning board yeah yeah you could do that yeah so but what we're saying is if they were to expand and there are no more spaces or a limited amount of spaces they can apply for a variance so that the building they can still stay in that same building if the planning board grants them the variances if they can show the need if they can show the availability it may not be as high as what we have it set as now but you know we'll have to cross that Bri when we get to we don't even know if they're going to expand we we don't know what these businesses will hold so once they do that 600 right now I have to look into that okay well I mean look um understand we have to make a decision tonight no no well if we're gonna introduce so what I what I would hope we could do is because we've substantially agreed on and I mean we have agreement on everything that we got came came out of that uh cannabis workshop with the only important thing I think that that we need to agree on is parking if we can get agreement on that tonight then perhaps we can introduce it at our next meeting so I can I agree with the 600 I can do because that is already established on our books my concern was for us as a body that doesn't have the expertise and the knowledge of how the evolution of all of our zoning restrictions come into play my Rec recommendation was that we speak to the zoning official before we make those changes and that we as a board not make those changes I believe that we can go up to the 600 that that makes sense if we're GNA yeah deem it as same as Warehouse same as warehouse but to do anything outside of that I think it should be the planning board who is listening to the entire application who knows what the surrounding area looks like and whether or not it could be accommodated I don't think we should absolutely I don't think we should be have all the information to make decis well we do have all the information because Mr Moon gave it to us in the meeting Mr moon opined on it Mr moon is the attorney that has walked us through this entire process from the very beginning plan and and I still feel I still feel comfortable Council Williams just stated I rather the planning board because they do look at the location it's not a blanket statement I we're writing the ordinance we not I I know I know and we had it at 400 and the no we had it we have it at 250 it was at no no right now it's at 400 for for those uh we changed it to the cultivation to be 400 it is already 400 I know it's still not enough I was GNA say but we haven't voted on that but that's what we it's already in no we we the last time we did amendments we put the parking at 400 yes for the on WE they're at the light industrial laboratory and search and that's 400 400 will go up to six that's I was trying to explain on the zoom call was hard to articulate on Zoom but so now if we we put them at the warehouse they'll be at 600 and then the planning board could determine on their spaces exactly I think that's fair I think that's fair all right so just for the record I want to be clear I I did speak with um uh our zoning officer who was willing to defer to the attorney don't think when I had a conversation and now when I talked to her the day or two after the meeting uh and gave her what Mr Moon recommended she was fine with that too I don't think Mr Moon's in a position to make that decision it's a position he expertise on but that's that's not about the parking spaces and the traffic but I'm Notting his you have that have stated their their um willingness to go to 600 um you know I'm willing something them all together well I'll offer the motion that I just made which is that we can do the 600 and Warehouse determine them as Sam as Warehouse so we're consistent okay and then the plan are you gonna support that Council Miss scar yeah okay yeah I'll second that so Mr Jenaro we're offering an amendment to our current cannabis ordinance that we'd like to see added to it just to clarify it's the it's not the Cannabis ordinance it's the Amendments it's an amendment to the parking 12.2 or should or are we just adding a line to the Cannabis ordinance specifically regard oh we have to do both because in the so I guess we should do both to make it clean and understanding well we can but it has to be in the can ordinance for micro cultivators to be warehouse this is only for micro cultivators only for micro cultivators so just so that we're all on the same page I want make sure I'm clear and make them give them the 600 oh you're right because we were we're not exempting it right we're not exempting all C it could be for all cultivators cultivator SL manufacturing so the motion is for all cultivators and manufacturers I I will amend my motion to include cultivators and manufacturers will you second that yes I will no Calin is already second so this way what you're doing is you're changing them from light in Industry because we bumped it to 400 now we'll bump it to 600 I have to take a vote all right so just so we're clear we we're going to change that in both the Cannabis ordinance and uh with regard to our overall parking to make it consistent or we just have to do it in the Cannabis Che but I would think that you might want to just change both just for at least have the chapter 25 12.2 reference the um change with regard to cannabis manufacturers and cultivators so even if it was just add a footnote the light industrial one and just say um except for cannabis manufacturers and cultiv Su parking will be determined under this got it all right so that that is check with um the with Mr and Mr trne see if there's any issue there so that is the amendment being offered that's how we'd like it captured so that um and once we once we vote on on including that then we're going to offer a motion to introduce it on first reading the Cannabis ordinance U with the Amendments that we just agreed to at the workshop and that one UND thank you sir um so I interrupted U Madam clerk where are we we have a motion in a second yeah do the roll call councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay that's for the amendment I move for the ordinance to be put on the next meeting for first read second okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman Gite councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay motion carries now can we have a motion to adj wait minut I have one more thing sorry the CCB ccbm right we need a representative okay so we'll bring you one by the next meeting thanks Chief now may I join to second thank you all in favor opposed okay thank you West Orange night night night West Orange that's all right this is a good one is my stuff yes do you want to stick around or you want to call