do here are you live did you push the button red button this is to advise that the notice of the time date location to the extent known agenda of the subject meeting was prominently posted in the public place reserved for such a similar announcements on February 23rd 2024 transmitted to the times the princeon packet in West Windsor and pl Ro news on February 23rd 2024 filed with the Township Clerk on February 23rd 2024 Sam please call the S Mr Lao yes Mr shael yes Mr panov Mr beg Miss bar Miss appleget councilman Whitfield yes here mayor morate yes Vice chairman hoberman yes chairman karp yes we have a quarum and both alternates can be seated thank you next order business the notice of contract award to Burgess and Associates for landscape architect Ed Edward uh snikes that's how you pronounce it okay I would have gotten it wrong um anybody have any uh questions issues regarding the contract just snarky comment I'm assuming that's [Music] $15 yeah yeah we we should add um currency there could be Filipino pesos be 20 bucks an hour Partners firm years Fant okay um should take a roll on this or just all say I okay all in favor of the contract please say I I any opposed any extensions okay motion carries congratulations Mr snikes snik okay jry here okay at this time I'd like to open it up to the public for comments three minutes per person total of 15 minutes on non-agenda or non- pending items does anybody have any comments I wish to step up to microphone okay hearing none next okay uh next up is minutes December 20th um did everybody get the um email from Sam asking for comments to be sent to him directly and if so did anybody have any comments that needed be or changes that need to be made I have got okay just on minutes of January 177 second page under the consent agenda planning board attorney P should be Muller and Bailey rather than J may take time your think did you get that first one yeah it's page three of the uh I'm sorry page two of the um minutes of January 17 under the consent agenda it says planning board Attorney Law Offices of GERD meller that should be changed to meller and Bary and then um the other changes on the close session meeting uh I would reward that one sentence to say attorney Mueller reviewed the status of lawsuits with respect to three applications SL projects so add lawsuits with respect to that's it anybody else minutes um that was January 17th jry was speaking about any any uh changes to um the December 20th 2023 minutes hearing none I'll entertain a motion to um accept the minutes from December 20th 20 2023 so moved second all in favor say I I Iain two extensions you got that second the mayor second it so that's can he second it but not vote okay okay um minutes accepted uh we already talked about the Gen [Music] 17 let me see if there's something uh any other changes besides what Jerry had for joh 17 I'll entertain a motion to accept the J 17 minutes still moved second move by Curtis second by the mayor all in favor say I Iain okay two ab itions anybody else Sam what okay um February 7th um meeting minutes any changes Corrections mods to that Sam I had something on there that just to add some context but I'll s I'll I'll send it to you but um on okay I'll send this but I just want to get on the record that on page three where at the middle of the page where it says Kevin Moore Esquire um I just want some context that Mr Moore felt the calculations were inaccurate and that it was agreed upon Mr kman will go back sharpen his pencil get better calculations and it became a condition of the uh approval so I just want some context even there even though it's recorded as such I just I'll I'll give you a sentence or two and like I said send to Cindy and CCU okay gotta remember to do if I if I I get to do it just send me a reminder okay um I'll entertain a motion to motion to approve with uh Michael's addition okay thank you second okay uh Curtis motion Allan second um all in favor say I I any extension okay one one extemp got that Sam okay great thank you okay um was there just before we move on was there any change other than Jerry's changes to the Clos session minutes um any other changes to that okay uh alen a motion to accept the closed session meeting minutes February 7th move by Allen second second second by the mayor all in favor say I I okay motion carries minutes accepted thank you okay the highlight of the evening application pb23 -07 Chick-fil-A preliminary final major site plan with sign waivers 3499 US Route One block7 lot 59.2 property zone for B2 District M ml 33124 yeah Mr chair the approv publication and service are in order and the board has jurisdiction thank you thank you Mr chairman members of the board my name is Duncan Prim I'm a partner at the firm of Prim and Tu Bell with offices in Mount Laurel and hackensac in WBY state of New Jersey uh I represent the applicant Chick-fil-A Inc with reference to tonight's application I think board's familiar with the property it's located at$ 34.99 US Route One at the intersection of emans drive that's also known as block seven lot 59.2 on your Township tax map as a bit of background before we Dive In in October of 2020 the overall site our overall site received a minor subdivision approval along with a use variance and preliminary and final major site plan approval from the township zoning board and that was for the development of two uses on the site uh the front portion the first use on the south southeasterly portion of the site now known as lot 59.0 was approved to be developed with a 5,500 185q foot Wawa convenience store with the sale of fuel as the board May note the site work has begun out at thewa and we'll be moving forward the central portion of the site now known as Lot 59.0 2 was approved to be developed as a four-story hyet House Hotel uh the hotel was to have a total area of approximately 75,000 square fet and contain 120 guest rooms in total however since that approval uh the land the land owner has been working with my client and in lie of the previously approved hotel we now present this board with an application for preliminary and final major site plan to instead construct a 5,226 square foot Chick-fil-A drive-thru Quick Service restant as our proposal does not contemplate will require any D variance relief jurisdiction of the application has been shifted as for permitted use from your Zone zoning board to the planning board which is why we're here before you tonight as you'll hear in testimony the interior of the restaurant will contain seats for indoor dining as well as two drive-thru Lanes which wrap around the building we have our professionals will go through exactly how the drive-thru Lanes will work access to the site will be provided by a driveway along Em's drive as well as a shared access aisle with W was wa was up ront uh finally as you'll hear from our siblings enger and our professional planner this application requires very minor uh design waiver relief no variances it is a almost completely conforming application uh we've worked with the township staff at length through different TRC meetings and we feel comfortable presenting a plan that is almost by right and certainly approvable here tonight with that I'd like to introduce my first witness John Martinez with the company with J Mr mler would you like me to swear all my Witnesses at once would you absolutely okay if you could all raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that testimony you're about to give will be the truth so want toir if we you can go around set your full name and spell your last name Vincent Kelly ke l l y business address 101 F fors Corner hell New Jersey uh then uh there a licensed professional engineer almost five years now your attorney will qualify you when it's time for you to yep just get exp morning in evening John Martinez m r t NZ development manager with Chick-fil-A business address 5200 Bingington Road Atlanta Georg good evening Patrick Downey do W Ney with the firm of dynamic traffic business address is 1904 Main Street Lake comoo New Jersey hello Daniel Block B C col at engineering and design 53 Frontage Road Clinton New Jersey great thank you um who would you like to First witness is GNA be Mr Martinez fromany okay John let's give it obviously you're not here next but let's get word a little bit of your background comp sure so um I've been a development manager in that role for uh just about 10 years at you col but I've been associated with company since 2001 so 23 years as you can tell from my accent not really from Georgia I don't cool many people so I I live here in New Jersey actually live in mils so I'm very familiar with uh this particular site um just because I've been on one for most 30 years um my goal with cha is to assist in developing new sites we've been looking the town of West Wind for got me 15 20 years I've been involved with sites where J B Nilan just started go in the air University so probably a half dozen sites but I can tell you you waited for the right SS and why that's the right site for us is um it's a very large site larg thing we Al built the site itself is almost 3.8 Acres granted some of that is weap site but what that allows us to do is to put chickf Playa full chickf Playa with the and drive Athlete on the site without much CH so I've been tasked task my team to make sure we come up with the site that would support uh the CH playes so real real face my engineer we get into it but the the screen we're going to Mar A1 like my engineer to come up and describe what the exhibit is that' be great and what's your name my name is iiv engineer Prov Li sure uh graduated in 2011 fors in civil engineering been a license engineer going five years now I've been testifying up and down the state ever since then before LIC at state in Pennsylvania uh you licens since Cur and New Jersey yes okay thank you anybody have any issues okay so qualified what are we looking at on screen and what SM so uh what you're looking out on screen uh is the colorized Landscaping plan um and of what it look like once everything's fil uh so you can see a lot of the Green Space you can see the building position you can see the P Parking the drive-throughs uh the site canopies uh everything like and kind of walk through what the pump all right Martinez we got exhibit A1 on the screen for you so um what I want to point out a few highlights so the building itself um at 200 square F feet has 74 seats inside so have a full seat we'll also have about 20 seats outside like small SI M we dining but the thing you'll notice most about this kitchen is we've increased the kitchen capacity so with this since Co we have really ramped up our buildings buildings ability to process and produce food so uh we have the stateof the art Kitchen in this facility um outside we're providing 73 parking spaces now we're actually providing 67 parking spaces from day the ability for a few additional land spaces and that's right in our wheelhouse but we feel as far as what we need I realize that's one of the waivers that we actually slightly over your your maximum parking Lance but I want to make sure that when we provide we open up there is no potential overflow either out the street or even for our neighbors to to follow and I will say that we've developed quite a bit over the years witha they're very comfortable with our uses especially with some of the improvements we made one of the other things you'll notice on the site plan is that the stacking car St the drivethru is extremely long that stacking right there I think it's over 50 cars stacking a drivethru before we spill out into our own Park anyone else and to put it in perspective for you um if you're familiar with I guess the closest chip is one I was built a couple years ago down in w um that has about 30 Mars so this is literally 50% most sta plus the other thing I think is really important to to note is that we have two drive-thru Lanes when you come in there'll be two or stations but they never merge those Lanes do not merge as opposed to previously You' see merge as one land this facility will not have a pick up window it has a drive-thru door so we actually our team members will walk through out to the car either one and what that does it allows um for a lot more throughput through a facility so I kind of demonstrated that to your staff during the trc's I sent in a video of one of these facilities that's in operation have to be in a different state um but it shows how we can handle that amount of cars how we can safely have our team members out there so we vetted that through our Eternal safety post and we're actually in the process of building this facil so we have a couple hundred of these facilities now in New Jersey we have a few of these facilities now are only up and running so the closest one here I think is Edison New Jersey and what's the capacity I was just there on Saturday what's the capacity of cars that can go at Edison in the Drive-Thru yeah uh it's probably about in in the 30s that was our previous standard was in the 30s so here we have it in the 50s and in Hamilton Township at Marketplace so Hamilton Township's a great example of of how Chick-fil-A evolves so that particular store was the first store we ever built in New Jersey that was built literally uh 22 years ago um and that was the old style if you recall drive-throughs used to be kind of middle of the site have one way flow around them um but that has literally the stacking there that original facility was probably 10 or 12 and I know you're moving to another site on in the same Center we are how many stacking are you having there yeah so that um so to show D chick commitment we're we're business has been really good there so we're are actually taking a larger site right um I'm not personally working on that it's a reinvestment project but I've seen the plans and it's probably in the neighborhood of 30 to 40s I don't know the exact number on that but I think it's important to demonstrate that that's should Place commitment we don't just come in and build a store walk away we're committed to the community and to improve it where we can even a good example is is Lawrence right down the street two two years or so it's been open uh we have the ability to get some additional property next door work GB Bank not build and so we're actually before Lawrence Now with an application to expand our parking and our drive here give some more capacity so I just want to sure that that this facility here is being designed with P the bells and whistles in so beyond just the drive-thru I think the other important thing that is the ability for us to service what we call mobile customers mobile customers are ones that are either folks like us that order their cell phone show up or third party deliveries you know your Uber eat and your door dash one of the reasons why we want to make sure we have parking sufficient is because we anticipate that there's going to be a fair amount of weeks we're finding just in New Jersey generally that number is probably 20 25% of our our business so we want to make sure that this facility has that we have proper capacity uh follow-up question on that op operational so when uh Uber Uber Eats or door Dash uh comes to make a pickup at Chick-fil-A they have it's not through the drive-thru they go to the counter correct so because everything's prepaid right so that's why I'm wondering would there there be a possibility that and that that would be a drive-thru possibility or it all be through the front counter you you are on cutting edge of what we're looking to do here I I can absolutely answer that question so so generally today um that operation happened with with individual Parkside Park comes inside there's a separate entrance into the facility we try and separate customers sit down customers from that UB eats and door Dash customers and they would come in a check in pick up their food and then and leave uh we are experimenting with what we call mobile through the ability that you can actually take one of the drivethru lanes have the just for mobile orders so you order off site you show up on site via G Geo fencing which I assume you know it is but what it is it can recognize when your phone comes on to the property start reparing the food and you able to actually get your food in the Drive-Thru link it's it's still kind of experimental sense that it's not rolled out everywhere just yet but this facility will be built so that we would be able to handle that but that's not part of your day one operations here in West wior that's not my CH that's not my decision so let me take a step back on how we actually operate um so on that it's just for Uber Eats or it's for anybody who orders is it just for Uber Eats or anybody who orders online anybody mobile ERS mobile ERS Okay so the reason I can answer your question so Chick-fil-A um even though corporately we choose the site we uh build against to the leav or purchase when we're ready to open we actually turn the store over to not franchising um and that individual is not chosen until or at least not announced until we're ready to actually start do on construction Chick-fil-A gets probably 50 60,000 people a year that apply to and of that um we narrow that down to somewhere about people ches every year so very St select process um that operator goes to extensive train but that operator potentially could even be even an existing operator could be an operator that maybe grew up in this area and now is living in California and they have an opportunity to come back to the community so what we're really what chip is really looking for is someone that's connected to this this community is going to get Community is going to support Community what's important to the community Chick-fil-A operators as you may or may not be aware they'll go support schools Lally parishes whatever is important to that Community senior activities and so we'll we'll find that location so that decision as to they turn it on or off is made by that op what I can assure you is the facility itself will be equipped with the appropriate technology to have that done abolutely I'm sorry I didn't quite get the number of cars that the stacking Lane would accomodate did did you say 50 or in the 50s oh it would be it would be over 50 cars my my my traffic engineer give you the exact number but I know it's over 50 then one other question on on follow up with Jerry how does that compare to Chick-fil-A in the rest of the state it sounds that's a very high number for stacking yeah so um I can tell you so I have two stores on in construction right now one 17 inam and another one 46 um that number right there is right in the middle of those two stores so please don't tell me that the traffic from pamis will spill out onto Highway 17 Northbound similar to Ramsey New Jersey so that is why uh way we designed it so that we have a very large site so if you're familiar with Ramsey that site was only about a little over an acre the site we're doing on 17s if you're familiar with the firl restaurant we're taking that but that's over two and a half neers um we certainly hope it's not we we have all a very a lot riding because I know some people in Ramsey are not too happy about uh the spilla out as well as uh highway speeds of 65 miles per hour on 17 North I I can't do anything about highway speeds no but I'm saying it's not a safe situation that's my point so so but but I can assure you that that's why we're we're just generally we're finding larger sites and we're putting in facilities that we feel um I know some of the questions that your staff has go on was overall we've got about uh between 90 to 100 team members that will be uh employed at this facility but at any given time that number is somewhere around the 25 you will notice when we first open up there's more more team members there we over staff in fact we have a grand opening strategy where first a few weeks we'll bring in a whole bunch of folks from around the country really seasoned individuals that can help train up the new new teach our hours are very similar to you see 6 6:30 in the morning um to 10 o'clock at night closed on Sunday so it's Monday through Saturday still on Sunday big um we'll get similar to what we do la we'll get deliveries that will come overnight so we use it's called key drop so the facility be closed and locked truck pulls up and it it's the food right it's the it's the equ part frozen food is freezer refrigerated to the refrigerator area uh and that last that occurs probably four to five times a week depending on store we also have a trash pickup again that happens in the morning it's usually about 7:00 to 9:00 a.m. before the store gets buing we are open for breakfast but I'll tell you that's probably the smallest part of of of our day no one knows as far breakfast operation get into how the drive works much more detail any questions operation oh sure say 6 in the morning to 10 o'clock at night it's Monday through 7 no I did research before tonight's meeting obious sure the last page was very big previously swor yes no it's not on isn't the mic on the St can take that up about now all right yeah so I'm gonna sit over there and go exhibits if it whe over there I would do you have hard copies of any of the exhibits uh not not with me okay we can submit or send you absolutely a a lot of these were submitted previously uh with with the application a few of them were kind of touched up and a few of them were kind of is this particular one in the fact no if if you referencing one something that came in the packet can you just tell us the um we will correct page number thank you lot of one again this is Vince Kelly our civil engineer ters Vince is going to walk through uh the site overall site existing conditions close conditions um and each exibit go ahead start with uh so this is is going to be A2 uh A2 is the is a comparison exhibit from the proposed Chick-fil-A and the the previous Hotel uh it was prepared by my office uh I believe it's hard to see the date but I think it was uh updated uh yesterday uh just for some stuff uh this exhibit was previously included in uh the package uh but just a few few items uh were touched up um for for green wise um so as stated uh the lot that we're uh taking over is 592 which uh did receive a preliminari and final uh along with a subdivision and that's where uh lot 592 comes from uh I know the board I don't know if they're familiar with the site I know was underneath the zoning board so I just want to provide some history on it what the the previous application look like versus what what we're dealing with uh here uh so on the the bottom of the screen uh it's the previous Hotel uh you could see the the footprint itself is uh just slightly 22,000 square feet uh whereas the proposed Chick-fil-A uh is just slightly under uh 5400 square feet uh as you could you could see uh we are reducing impervious coverage we're reducing uh the overall parking count uh and what we're providing is is more green space uh specifically a long Ming Drive uh you could see the the previous application with the hotel uh received a variance uh for uh the setback and is basically along uh the main uh Corridor right here r a Chick-fil-A is pushed more uh in the rear of the site uh so as mentioned we've been working with the the professionals I would say going on U about a year now uh application what the plan we presented had the chickf around wildwest property the site and had parking on on both sides basically uh so after some back and forth what you what you see here is what everybody kind of came to terms with uh and uh basically it just it flipped everything 180 de to to rotate the building interior to the site uh which provides an efficient functional layout for uh the drive-thru as well as uh the parking circulation and what it allowed us to do was uh provide uh a large uh Landscaping buff for long minin drive uh which I'll get into a little bit how how we kind of screened everything uh a little little later uh as I start talking about the site and everything um as mentioned we are in the B2 Zone which is the neighborhood uh C business district the qsr is uh a permitted use along with the drive-thru we have compli as you as you heard we don't have any variances so we have complied with all the the bulk uh table setbacks uh in regards to Building height impervious coverage for ratio we don't we comply with all the setbacks uh and then there's also two um requirements for the drive-thru themselves uh so they the drive-thru needs to be set back from the property line 30 ft uh so along em drive we we actually exceed that uh we're about 30 37 and change uh and then in the rear um where we back up to the the multi commercial property Southwest of us uh we provide the the uh landscape buffer about 32 feet uh so in essence uh you know we we comply with everything we are asking for a few minor uh waivers uh a few of them relate to the parking some signage and a loading zone so I'm going to go back to A1 which is the the colorized exhibit of the plan kind of walk through the the site circulation and uh access uh for the site and kind of how the the the drive-thru functions itself uh a little later I do have some perspective views of what the drive-thru looks like uh and I'll kind of I'll touch on this first and then once I get through the perspective views I'll I'll I'll retouch on that so you could kind of get a general feel of how everything works um so with the previous application there were two uh curb Cuts along & Drive uh we are consolidating that into one curb cut uh which you could see here uh it's it's a little bit um I want say on the the Northeast side of the property with the developable area it's almost middle of the site uh and then we are uh providing access from Route One uh via the wa was uh parcel as well uh the same access from route one from the previous application has been made uh to the same connection at Wawa uh that obviously was a a big U driving Factor everything to make sure that the the site circulation for Wawa and their operations still work functionality for for us as well um you could see based on this plan uh we are increasing um the the Landscaping which I'll get into the specifics a little bit later uh that we're providing you know um treescape along Mage drive here along with a a buffer along M drive we are providing uh sidewalk access from both roadways as well uh wwup currently has a uh a herring bone uh pavers in the rear of the property uh and they're going to construct it up to the property line we're going to pick it up where where they're stopping and and bring it interior to the site uh same thing with emans uh we are providing a sidewalk access uh from emage drive and uh providing it crossing the drive-thru here with some you know uh crosswalk and some way finding signs so you know provides Public Safety uh and then bringing uh everyone to in front in front of the building uh we also are providing uh bicycle racks uh we understand you know there's a uh I'm sure everyone's familiar with the site there's the apartments right down emage Road uh so we position the bike rack uh to be on that side of the the property anticipating that that's most likely where uh bicycle traffic will come from instead of rout one basically so um is it to ask my wayfinding sign question at this point yes no okay so sure uh uh scenario yes uh I'm coming down US Route One southbound and I I don't know to turn on emin's drive because I see the the Chick-fil-A logo after I pass em and's drive on the monument sign yep so I'm entering at the Wawa past the Wawa coming into the Chick-fil-A site please walk uh please tell me the wayfinding signs from entering off of US Route One sure to get to the driveth through Lane and where they where they are position yes 100% uh I had a feeling you're gonna ask that question was a little later in my testimony but happy to to go over right brought it up so I I I wrode with it that's fair very fair uh I just want I have the uh the site plan Circle I just want to make sure I identify where they exactly are and I'll even show you a picture what they look like as well uh so your scenario is coming off Route One they make go right into Wawa they continue in the the Northwest Direction They enter the Chick-fil-A property uh directly at this stop sign so they're stopped they're only allowed to go right they're looking over their right hand shoulder already there is a sign right here in the Landscaping Island that has drive-thru with a a through Arrow directing them to continue straight with obviously the chickf flip at the bottom they'll continue in the Northeast Direction uh towards em Drive they'll get to the next Island uh which if you could kind of see my cursor it's on the the left and also on the right we have a drive-thru with a a left turn arrow that says hey the drive-thru is to your left and then as you you you turn down the the Northwest Direction you'll you'll be presented with the drive-thru that has the drive-thru pavement markings they have the the clearance bar you understand you are at the drive-thru for the Chick-fil-A thank you now taking taking one as well uh coming into emans and this coming off of em same same question same same they're feeling same question and it relates to the same way so coming in off Edmonds uh you will turn uh around the site right in the first island as well as in the same island where there's a left uh turn they have uh a right turn into the driveth through so we position those for that exact scenario so people aren't driving all over the site uh they have clear direction to get into the drive-thru and get out uh if you bear with me I could show you exactly what they look like let's mark this previously submitted the plan correct that that is correct uh this is the the proposed signage package uh for the the site and the way finding signs are look exactly like this they certainly you like yep so exactly here it says drive-thru and it gives you the direction and there's a a small Chick-fil-A logo at the back not that you wouldn't understand where you are uh but that's that's what we're looking at um Duncan um it's A3 that that that's in the yes yes these are provided on one of the detail sheets uh that actually brings me to one of the the relief we're actually asking for uh in the ordinance um I believe the uh the max square footage for one of these type signs is two square feet we're asking for a three square feet just to enlarge it a little bit to really show people where it's actually going and you know make a a conscious decision uh it's a minimal increase I think the the added benefit of U site circulation and safety kind of outweighs that good thank you on thatc issue okay um so piggybacking off of that uh let's say you do find your way to the the drive-thru uh once you enter the drive-thru as was previously stated by Mr Martinez uh you you will enter either the right or left drive-thru and I'm going to pick the right one for this scenario uh you maintain uh your your lane for the duration of your your order uh so when you make your order and actually get your food you never merge back into uh either Lane uh so as you're driving counterclockwise of the site you pull up to the the first uh canopy which is highlighted on on the screen as a light brown hatch uh this is the the meal order canopy uh during non non- peak times uh they actually have they have a traditional menu board uh this is digital uh like that function like like every other qsrc uh however uh during peak times they do have team members out there with iPads taking orders uh everything like that and it and it really um gives them a chance to get the orders into the build building a lot faster process it you know cook the food uh quicker basically um keep the drive-thru moving uh as you will um the canopy itself uh is really for the team members it sits roughly uh feet high and it's basically just to get them out of the elements you know day day like today will provide a lot of rain summer even in the winter provides some shade uh even in the winter and the summer they have heaters and some fans under there so it's not like it's just a physical structure they're really thinking about their team members making sure they you know they're comfortable um what you kind of see in in the Drive-Thru as well is the the middle of the the lane and even this side of the um drive-thru with the canopy it does have uh about three feet wide of striping and that's for team members to walk up and down and they're not kind of squeezed in between cars um so G it gives them a little a little bit safe place in a refuge area for that so once they're they're done placed in the order uh the customers will continue in a uh counterclockwise fashion um and then pull up to the next canopy which is the meal delivery canopy this canopy has the same function as the the order canopy and equipped with the same same stuff for um heaters and fans and refuge area uh and like Mr Martinez uh indicated this is where the deliveries happen so team members will walk uh the food out to either car uh in either Lane and what that kind of does is um it allows them to deliver food to to more than one car at one time basically so year years past where they would merge in uh you'd have just one meeting point where all the the deliveries would happen let's say you have a somebody has a large uh order you know they have a few kids in the back uh it's going to take you know an extra minute or to to prepare it uh but let's say the the car behind him is somebody like me just coming home from a meeting like here you know I just grab a quick sandwich something to drink and I drive home uh basically what it allows to do is uh once the deliver my food let's say it takes another 30 seconds to deliver the car in front for the larger order and then they also subsequently deliver the food to the car after and same thing for the other lane so basically they could deliver instead of one car one time in wait they could deliver six time six cars at one time and then once everybody has their order they could just move out in an orderly fashion and therefore you never really have a a a cog in the the drive-through Lane and everything's continuously to flow uh smoothly right there for for any questions oh Daniel a circulation question because you were talking about the circulation was um in your site Explorations was the idea of connecting to the site from the Wawa uh equivalent to the space between the gas canopy and the Wawa building going straight into your site as where the where you have a major two-way Lane right next to the drive-through entrance was that explored at all I'm not sure I understand the question so sure yes I'm this is above the Wawa yep and if I draw straight line I'm going onto the site where your two-way Lane is where the entrance is was was there ever any exploration between doing a a cross through connection there thinking of the customer that fills up for gas at the Wawa but then wants to go through the drive-throughs at the Chick-fil-A right uh it's a great question uh we we did think of that however the drive-thru with the Chick-fil-A is obviously the the busiest part of the their operations really WWA the business part is uh fueling positions as well so we wanted knowing that like M Martina says we've worked with Wawa hand inand on multiple sites really you don't you don't want point a lot of points of conflict at your busiest points uh so the gas canopy being busy you don't want people shooting over trying to get a chicken sandwich and then vice versa uh be like all right I got my sandwich let me get get some gas before I head out there you you want a chance to kind of separate the separate the two uses and that's kind of why we we have everything funneled in in the back over here uh it gives everybody a chance to kind of take a break kind of you know re reset and you know proceed in orderly fashion if you will get circulation um you have the banks the parking spaces you have four 14 of them and six of them basically would back out directly into your main entrance and exit correct I think that is an accident waiting to happen so I'll yeah so this this is a good point I'll I'll touch on the the parking as well um so the the land baned how you see it on the Wawa side that so there's eight spaces there th those are going away and that will be green space well that's W but I'm talking about for your site right so so we have correct so we have we have six on our site so as Mr Martinez uh indicated we have 73 within our our partial over here uh however it's not technically 73 spaces uh three of them are EV which are really like rarely used because they're kind of special vehicles until the the time kind of the times come up and then the six spaces so they're they're just land banked as is well my point is that if they were put into operation they would be I mean as I said they're an accident waiting to happen somebody backing out you got cars coming in cars coming out that's the only way in or out practically and I I don't think they they're appropriate I think that should be removed from the pl so if if these were ever constructed we could turn them into team member parking so it's for staff members and it' be long duration I've seen team member parkings at Starbucks and things and I ended up parking in the team parking space okay people don't respect that so I I really think that uh that should be removed okay so similar to to Allen's concerned I'm concerned about the five spaces right at that entrance that we talked about if uh where there's the five spaces there in this heavily circulated space right here you know that's that's a concern to me yes so though those five were were directed to be team me team member spaces as well okay uh for the operator and you know they have obviously plenty plenty of Staff um they would direct their staff to park back here so like I said it would be a long duration for turnover it' be basically at shift change it's not high turnover not really uh marketed to come into the site ctis yeah go ahead I I think the food traffic is Max maimum in front of Wawa so the entrance on this side is much better I mean okay you don't want a lot of cars driving in front of wa I I I guess there's a gut feeling I have that that's going to be a choke point um especially for egress I I know I know we haven't talked about the traffic yet and you guys can tell me talk about it later but with all the with Chick-fil-A traffic leaving the site to go Southbound on Route One with Wawa traffic from both the can the gas operation and the convenience operation going to go Southbound on Route One that southbound exit is going to get a good amount of use and I I'm concerned about cues because uh at certain times of the day it might not be easy to make the right turn uh onto Highway One South yet I know there that the there is a dedicated Lane there for right turn in right turnout uh right turn in and entrance uh onto it you know so you have it easing there but that but you know drivers still just go on it anyway through but given how much foot traffic I've seen in front of Wawa it's much better to not put more cars in front of that building we will touch on that point with our thank you thank you I I have my own hypothetical go ahead on on foot traffic but um New Jersey being the only I think the only state in the United States that still does not have self-served gas let's prevent somebody from pulling up say fill it up run across the parking lot to get the the chicken filet sandwich a multitask it's discouraged I know just again I represent Wawa as well so that's something I would do attendance their attendance discourage that obviously if someone does it not stop them you'll tell them next time please don't again it's could happen again though that same person could do the same thing and go into W right they mobile ordered and so they're fill it up and they run across pick up the mobile order okay right to be honest that that might be a quicker might be a quicker time than going into Wawa and spending 15 minutes in there right okay sure okay okay okay um all right so next I'm I'm going to kind of go over um site site circulation um I'm just going to pull up the exhibits as well yeah up A4 so this is A4 this was also submitted in uh in the package as well uh this is the the delivery truck as as um chickfila will be you know serviced uh via a large tractor trailer uh your uh th this was an exhibit it's not part of the actual site plan set but it was part of the the overall submission correct this is sheet 103 and it is labeled uh delivery truck circulation exhibit uh so we prepared both scenarios um basically uh I guess worst place scenario is coming off Em's Drive um and just showing how they can navigate through the proposed site uh so they will make a left into the site Drive circulate around uh the building Park in the the front of the store between Wawa and Chick-fil-A there's a a little dashed Arrow uh that shows where the the person will uh deliver food into which is one of the doors in the rear uh so that that brings me to another waiver that we're requesting uh per ordinance requirement we need one loading zone uh however we're not proposing one and that's basically due to the fact that loading operations occur overnight while the shore is closed uh so either either the the delivery truck driver has a copy the keys or it's in a lock box and he has access to the code uh and what they do is you you know once they pull onto the site they actually um you know turn obviously they turn the truck off so there's no idling uh they even turn off uh the refrigeration as well uh for the loading operations takes about 45 to an hour uh they hand they hand card everything in uh back of the building and then you can see they they pull off site and uh leave via Route One um we're also so in this in this plan essentially you can't have any course parked in the space of correct and that won't be the case either uh once the store is closed down you know obviously you can't D there anymore all the team members go home so this this scenario where we're driving over parking stalls there will be no cars in in the parking uh whatsoever uh the next exhibit is the fir truck circulation exhibit A5 we'll call this A5 this was also submitted as part of the the Mission package uh again it's it's showing um worst case scenario fire truck coming in and off emin's circulating she reference is a three of three uh sorry yes so this is one one of one and it's labeled fire truck circulation exhibit I'm just I'm just going to go back one second on when you talked about delivery I I am that you are asking for a variance a waiver in regards to not having a loading ver correct okay that's on their waiver request list yes this one yep okay everybody ready all right um so similar to the delivery truck they they pull fans circulate into the site uh they're able to pull in front of the the building uh where there is a fire hydrant on the the opposite of the building the island right here there also is a uh FDC location on the building along with the KNX boox uh and once they're done they'll they'll back out of the site and then leave route one uh this has been reviewed by uh Tim Lynch the the Fire Marshall uh we satisfied all his comments and you know he he's he's good with our plan he's recommended it for approval so we have satisfied the the Fire Marshall with our configuration for how they will fight the fire sh the building ever Beyond along with the the proposed hydrant the the nox box and uh the FPC location are there sprinklers in the restaurant there is yes okay the next exhibit I'm going to go over is the the tra CR pickup uh A6 we'll call this A6 this was also included in the submission package this is a one of one it's a garbage truck circulation exhibit uh so we we note that the fire truck most likely will come down ev's Drive uh yeah come down emage Drive uh circulate the the building uh hit the the trash enclosure um and and then leave uh via image drive as well they do obviously do have the access to to leave route one as well but we were just showing worst case scenario um the trash enclosure as mentioned uh probably picked up around four four times a week uh obviously that can be increased as needed that will be handled uh one early morning so as already mentioned it's our least busiest time um and should shouldn't have any uh conflicts with the any any folks that do actually choose to uh dine in for breakfast and then the the dumpster itself on each side is large enough to accommodate both the the garbage and the recycling from from the facility so each of them will have their own separate um dumpster enclosure it's not like the you know the garbage ever gets overflowed or somebody throws in um recycling to it they have their own separate in and anything's not kind of stacked at the B the back of it so you're not going to really see anything um I'll go kind of in into what when I go over the perspective views of what the the site looks like I'll show you what the uh trash enclosure looks like it's built with the the CMU wall which is the the masonary brick um you know goes I want to say about 10 feet high so you're you're never going to be able to see the dumpsters or anything like that uh and then it's also finished with the brick which is the same brick and color of the building so everything will kind of match and blend in um so I'm I'm going to go back to A1 which is the the Landscaping uh plan and kind of just touch on um what what we're proposing with uh this plan and I'll kind of flip back to kind of what you see for the the hotel side as well um as far as screening so as we mentioned um the the site is reducing you know parking reducing impervious overall uh and adding more green space uh specifically to uh emage drive and you know conforming with the the setback and the buffer width that's that's there um so as what was kind of Knocked Down um grab my sheet sheet so I can tell you exactly it uh with the existing hotel that was previously developed um there there was a bunch of uh trees along em drive now with the Demolition of that the the canopy out here got cleared uh so what we're looking to do is replace the canopy um we're actually increasing the the number of trees along this roadway uh and what also doing along this roadway is providing a a a dense buffer screening um from emans so anybody driving along here especially for the residents in in the I would say nor Northwest of the site um as you're driving along here basically you're not going to really see the drive-through operation uh when I get to the perspective views I've kind of you'll see what how how dense it is and what we're looking at here um and what we also did uh a specific Al where my cursor is probably uh just as you enter the drive-thru we do have a a transformer for electric and uh we have one of those hot boxes it's the the like the gray meter volt uh what we're looking to do as well is is screen that from the roadway as well so we we didn't put either of those utilities here so you could see it we we made this basically an oversized Island so we could kind of hide that and then uh additionally screen it as we're getting through um so before I get into the the next thing um so one of the waivers where we are requesting is is that for the ordinance requirement uh anything that's not a drivable area so the drive-thru and the parking pav uh parking area for the uh cars and the drive vs uh supposed to be uh pavers uh however noting that you know Chick-fil-A is a little bit more popular than some other stores we are looking to uh make it full Hardscape with concrete um but we are you know um providing the the pavers in the rear that match what the the Wawa is proposing and we're going to connect it up into the drive-thru uh I W I will tell you that the the hotel and Wawa received a similar type waiver for that the the hotel basically stopped the pavers uh at the building but along along the building uh and around around it for the site circulation and uh folks walking to and from uh the hotel and similar with mware around their building uh they got a s a similar type waiver uh but what we are actually uh doing on this plan and it's kind of hard to say um give me a second I'll kind of zoom into it uh we are trying to match the the intent of the uh and what we're looking to do is provide a little bit different color of U concrete along the uh face of the building primarily where the the outdoor seating is and where anybody can enter uh the building uh there's two doors on the front and then one on the side where somebody can uh enter and where what we're looking to do is kind of score that so basically you cut the concrete to kind of give the impression of pay so it g gives kind of D dual effort basically it gives you the the longevity of concrete and doesn't have settlement or I'm sure if you guys ever have pavers some of them get loose they they kind of get a little Jagged uh whereas concrete pulls up over time uh but we are providing um it to be installed in such a way that gives you what the I feel that the ordinance was uh intended for and to give it a nice aesthetic pleasing especially in the front of the building maybe uh John mentioned this but I I lost it what's the quantity of outdoor seating 20 20 you can see it on the the say plan left of the building there there's four there's three four uh high tops and then there's a uh four two- seaters along the face of the building so that's one of the waivers we're asking for as well um but we feel we uh you know we met the ordinance intent um and another uh circulation question um I noted at the bottom of your site plan um still within your your where the those uh five concerning parking spots are I do see that you're doing a pedestrian connection to Windsor uh Green Shopping Center yes has that has of all the agreements been worked out to achieve that not not yet not yet okay because I I mean I'll be honest I don't even know if Windsor green has that type of sidewalk on their side we're showing it no and I'm looking at parallel to the the bottom sight line looks like there's a uh going uh parallel I I think there's a connection out there now from the Wendy's to get over there when the when the hotel used to be there right so well yeah but what what was it a was it it was a ped connection and it was approved by both parties I guess at that time it was I know that the owner of the winder Green Shopping Center is fully aware of this application that's taking place and they haven't barked it back okay fine thanks okay move on all right um the next next exhibit I'm going to prepare uh describe is the proposed lighting plan and I'm actually going to go to the the site plan sheets look for me um this was part of the the smittle pack it is part of the the site plan set and this is A7 A7 yes if it loads I can tell you es- ES1 after the C Series it's it's near the back after the uh landscape series doesn't load I I can still talk about it it's just easier to explain what the lighting levels out there yeah that makes lot sense okay uh so apparently it's not it's not loading oh here we go yes uh so what we're attempting to look at is the the proposed lighting uh for the development it is part of the the overall site plan set I believe it's labeled e ES1 in uh the packet that you have uh all right um I don't know if I should go with this one or the other one okay so so what we're what we're looking to do here um we're proposing LED light fixtures uh the light fixtures are 25 ft uh in height for the poles on the building we do have led fixtures as well uh they're mounted roughly 10 feet uh tall they're not really used for uh the the lighting levels they're more just uh lit just the the walking distance around that area so it's really just for the perimeter it's not used for the the overall scape of the the plan um as well as the the the proposed canopies because team members will be walking taking orders and delivering food uh that does have led fixtures as well um let's see if it ever ever loads um but uh the perimeter lights uh which are on the the Southwest uh the Northwest and then also a long emage drive uh the those lights have been designed as what they call forward throw lighting uh with back backous side shields uh so the light itself throws into uh the area that it's supposed to light so it goes forward and then in the rear of the the fixture itself uh it has uh a fixture where it reduces the illumination for the unit um to basically a few feet at behind it but really what it does is when you're staring at the back of the the fixture itself you don't see the the glare so if you ever been to a parking lot at night kind of you know has that yellowy glowe when you're staring behind it you don't see that it basically looks like the the darkness of night basically uh while providing area lit down below but it doesn't impede anybody else are basically down lights thank you yes that that's basically what you have at uh around here um so there there's a there is a two waivers that we're looking for for these lights uh and that's uh due to uh the ordinance requirement and um chick-fil operations uh so the fir the first um waiver that we're looking for the max foot candle uh within the the drive vial and parking is 0.5 uh we're proposing 1.9 uh as an average uh and so 0.5 is the is the max average we're providing 1.9 Chick-fil-As operation um you know because they're obviously they're a little bit more busier than other qsrs they want to be adequately lit especially in the parking um where you know either uh team members are walking or customers are coming in uh as well as uh for the drive-thru as they circulate around again especially for the the team members uh that are walking through there uh the second um waiver that we're looking for uh is due to the fact uh of these proposed lights at em and's drive so there's two sections of the ordinance and they both kind of uh conflict each other uh we're we're asking for the waiver for the one that we we feel is providing more of a public safety uh so at the any entrance uh of a curb cut you need to provide uh a minimum of 3.0 foot candle uh which we're proposing however uh there's another section of the ordinance that states that you can exceed 1.0 foot candle at a property line so in order to achieve you know three foot candle we have to exceed one foot candle at the property line and I just want to point out again uh that both the lights uh for Em's Drive have been positioned to um be directed at each other and again with the the forward throw downward lighting and both of these have been equipped with the the back house side Shield so if you're traveling on em in either direction you you won't see the back of the fixture you're just going to see the ground lit up below there so it's it's it won't impede any drivers as they're they're coming to or from the site or if they're just uh passing by so on sheet es2 you actually have the uh examples of the light fixtures can you run through them which ones you are actually using and where great question um yes so I [Music] will right um so I don't have the I don't have the actual details with me uh es2 es2 yes uh so es2 I I only clipped out a few on here um I do know from memory uh so the the little ones or the the building lights that's the progress lights yes and then there is uh kind of rounded rectangular ones yes that's the Scottdale Legacy yes so those are uh for the canopies underneath the canopies and just so you know those canopy lights don't hang down at all they're they're flush mounted yep so you you won't see those either so there's no glare yeah correct there's no glare and they're directed again uh downwards um and then the the other ones are for the the proposed uh fixtures they have the the looking heads on them uh with the LED lights some of them are just called out to be different for the back house side shields as you could see to cut down on the overall number of the fixtures we we have uh excuse me three of them on the interior lots that provide 360 uh light around again that's the to cut down on the overall number knowing that it it's adequately lit uh for everything and what color are these going to be uh that's great question uh so the all of the light fixtures uh are going to be a dark bronze uh when I get through the prospective views uh you'll see it it's the same color that's around the the windows the doors uh the color of the canopies so everything will match and and blend in you're not going to you're going to have a lot of uniform you're not going to be mixed matching colors out they take the poles will also be Browns that's correct that everything poles and heads will be uh dark bronze got it okay um so next I'm I'm going to run through uh signage um so with the proposed development we are uh proposing uh freestanding signage uh we are asking for a waiver for the total number of freestanding signs uh each development is only permitted one freestanding sign however uh kind of due to to technicality we're getting we're not uh free signs we're we're basically getting a panel on the the wa was sign that is going to get constructed obviously the the previous Hotel it's the same square footage it just now has a Chick-fil-A logo uh but te technically it's it's another freestanding sign uh and and the reason we we really you know need both is because of where we're positioned to inter interior to the site so we don't have any visibility or Frontage along uh route one so anybody traveling route one we want to make sure they have enough time uh to make a a clear safe conscious decision if they're in the Middle Lane they like oh there's a WWA and a Chick-fil-A coming up I'm going to slow down turn into that lane and either turn on emons or if they if they don't make that in time you know at least they have the availability come through Wawa via Route One uh uh I'll I'll show you what they they also uh look like as well if you give me a second I'm going to go back to this is A3 uh which is a signage exhibit uh this is this is what the the approved Wawa sign looks like and Chick-fil-A is just uh providing their logo where the the previous Hotel was correct a um I need to ask a context question sure uh can you swear David in please David yeah why don't I swear in all our questions at this point if you could all raise your right hand you swear you swear affirm the testimony about to give be the truth so from just go around just say your full names B Dober milski Township landscape architect Rim M Township traffic engineer Francis GIC West wior Township engineer so David here's my context question from uh previously before the uh planning board uh we had the application of the Pep Boys and Advanced Auto Parts yes we did yes we did is there Monument is there new monument signed also about 20 feet as per like number three on this display is it a much bigger sign or do you sign I would have to take a look Boys advaned Auto Parts yeah I can take a look in my uh reviews I did not research that I just looked up the monument sign that was previously approved for the hotel um that one I did research but if you give me a moment I can definitely find that pet boy sign was approved there thank you that front's route one though right it's a it's a pile thank you it's a pylon sign it's look the new version of number three here for the planning board approved Pep Boys signage change and Advanced Auto Parts signage change on the site across emans from the Chick-fil-A Wawa site yes I can uh take a look that was the SEMA application uh but if you go on I can find that information and get back let's let's move along and then pipe in when you find something thank you okay um so in addition to uh having a panel sign we are proposing a monument sign uh at the connection of uh emage drive here um so this the monument sign is8 feet tall uh the lower two half of it is really it's only um provides a six feet tall sign which has and the uh the community Message Board um that you just go back to kind of what it looks like for so this is A3 so this is the the proposed um sign you can see the the actual face of it it's only six feet and we're providing we're we're looking to provide uh twoot whole decorative base to give it some Aesthetics uh the The Message Board itself uh is in relations to unit state is that you know the the local operator will be invested in the community uh this message board isn't for Chick-fil-A itself it's not promoting any uh any deals or specials that's going on it's to highlight um things that are are happening in the community uh and that's that's manual letters not a digital it is l yes they are I believe they are manual thank you manual yes so what type ofes for example so yeah so got cookies whatever I don't know whatever I'm just curious yeah so let's say they they sponsor the local uh baseball team they get a big win um they they'll highlight that let's say they're hosting like a daddy daughter date uh date night thing things of that nature again it's not business oriented it's to provide uh message to the community correct uh so so with that uh we are so in conjunction to the uh waiver for uh two I guess Monument or fre freestanding signs if you will uh we're also asking for uh relief for the height of this sign uh you could see we're proposing at 8T like I said um 2 feet of it will be a decorator base below uh the only permits a a 4 foot high sign uh but we we feel that at 8T um we're we're positioned uh coming off Route One and subsequently uh along Mage drive a taller sign will be you'll be able to identify uh a little biter uh and you know gives you a good indication of where the actual curb cut uh is uh if this sign didn't exist you you could blow past it you could turn around in uh apartments or or somewhere else so it a it identifies where uh you can access a site uh and then B you know G it gives it a clear line of sight um and then also because we are providing uh you know dense bushes and trees in the middle of it uh we want to make sure it's tall enough and it's it's never going to be um you know they're very good at maintaining the sights but make sure with the the bushes and stuff like that it has enough uh where it can stand out as well Curtis to get back to your question that pylon sign was actually not part of the Pet Boys application it wasn't no so they had just swapped out the top panel but that didn't require any that answers the question though yeah yeah but Sam I have a question for you um and this is from the exhibit ra your right hand I thought he already was I thought s from testimony about to go be the truth I do question for Sam the sign from the signage exhibit you have these flag signs correct are there any Township regulations on flag signs like this we do allow those in the Redevelopment areas and their regulations on how often they can come up and come down in the Redevelopment areas yes so is this is this Wendy's sign as as is on the highway or not that's illegal we've noticed them before in the past thank you so they're basically a temporary kind of basis they're not supposed to have it out there my enforcement officer sites them all the time those those type of signs that when these puts out are not permitted they get cited on a regular basis for that maybe they'll just put them out during the congestion pricing campaign good one Michael receed okay um so that that's all I have on freestanding sign uh now with the the building we are proposing two signs as well uh both of them are located in the the northeast corner where my cursor is uh right above the main entrance door and then there's also one on um the southeast side of the building that faces Wawa and and Route One here uh so again we are asking for for some relief for uh the building signage we're only permitted one building sign uh we're obviously proposing two uh we are not proposing two on the other sides of the building um mostly because it really doesn't make sense because we back up to the other commercial portion uh and you know we have uh there's Wetlands over here that are are densely uh wed as well so we're not proposing any signage there um but we are obviously proposing on The Bu the building itself uh where it Mak Mak sense and that's basically above the the main entrance doors uh to the store uh we're also asking for relief of 50 square feet uh sorry U we're asking relief because a Max uh building square footage total is 50 square feet uh we're asking 117 each sign is is the same and I I'll just go to it so you can kind of see what it looks like again this is uh A3 it's a signage exhibit uh this is the proposed uh building building signs uh each of them are the same has a Chick Chick-fil-A wall scrip which you could see the the chicken is also uh doubles the as the logo um each of them are 5875 square feet so if you total that up that gets you to the 117 uh and then we're also asking for uh relief because the the max um letter height is 18 in uh we're we're asking for uh 60 in which is really for the the logo itself uh and that all of them are really kind of tied into uh where the bu building is positioned uh and that's the the rear of the site um so again you know we we want clear visibility not just but uh also to the building as well so sure the you know the the building or the proposed freestanding sign uh identifies how to get into the site the the signage for the building kind of lets uh customers know the front doors are once they get into the site uh so each of them are positioned in a way where uh probably the most activity for the the the building will take place so I want to make sure that's lit for for every to properly get into the building and they're not walking up and down the face of it I have a quick question regarding the Le height sure so the the CN is really the logo right right and that's 60 in tall correct how high are the other letters about approximately half height half of that 30 in yeah I would say probably probably about half of that half or less yes okay thank you question sure of course uh besides you know uh brand recognition it's just so so you see where it goes oh right of course but once you get there I I mean sure I I look at my dashboard with the you know Google or or wayy or whatever um but you know I still PID attention to the roadway and not just full fully fix itated on the screen uh uh you know an internally illuminated light uh litted sign at night you're going to see that you're like oh I know where my destination is I could ignore this and pay attention to actually getting in and out of the site s a question I have a question for you um you touched on buildings but um in terms of the canopy the order Point canopy yes I'm looking at this and I don't know what I'm looking at I see these round things underneath them you got rectangular things hanging sure so that that's a good segue how about I I walk you through what the the site perspectives uh uh look like let me if you see it here we go I think we're up to A8 right okay so this is this is A8 and this is a uh a colorized version of what the the building will look like as well as uh the the the proposed site as well as uh some Landscaping so you could really get a sense and feel of you know on once this uh gets installed what what you be looking like uh out here these were yes um I think there's 11 sheets in total for A8 just for clarification purposes um so the the the the top one what you're looking at here uh is the I guess northwest corner of the building so the wetlands uh and the the commercial development or just plan right and then plan left as well uh so as you're entering the drive-thru you've already placed your order you're approaching the the building this is what the the building looks like this is what the the proposed canopy looks like as I mentioned everything is is going to be dark dark bronze so everything kind of Blends in um you could see both drive-thru Lanes with the the striping in the the middle for the team members to to walk and safely deliver food this is the the drive-through door I believe we have a a little closer version of it so what's hanging off of the canopy uh so that that is so yeah so what's hanging off the canopies and it's not it's it's off to the side it's not underneath the car so the the clearance for getting in there is 9 ft uh but these do hang a little bit lower they what that what are so th those are the fans and the heaters that I was referencing earlier this is where they're positioned um they are out of the the drive lane where a vehicle will go uh as well gotta okay uh the next sheet is just the the uh what the face of the building looks like uh you could see this is the proposed bike racks over here uh along with the the EV Chargers over here the outdoor dining um this is where the and I do note in that perspective that I counted 22 seats not 20 okay you got me on that one so we're we're proposing 20 20 20 correct I think I think the architect who prepared this just got a little bit excited here added added two more in there I got a little excited okay um so this is what uh the face of the building will look like uh once I get into the the building materials a little bit as well uh actually I'll get into those at at the last two sheets um this is again of what the the drive-thru delivery doors look like um you can see we're proposing Landscaping so you know the I know it's a commercial use behind it but still you know if they don't feel like looking at um folks delivering food and there will be uh trees where you know everything will B basically be screened off for them um this is the the drive-thru door this is another door access to the the building and this is where the other proposed building signage is as well this is another look uh on the opposite side of the the face of the building uh you could see where both uh proposed signage for the building is uh as well as obviously an island where the uh Ada stalls are and um access to the face of the building this is just another another look of uh the EV and uh provided uh outdoor seating uh this is the meal order canopy uh so as I mentioned um there will be two static uh menu boards for non uh peak times uh where cars will drive up uh like I mentioned during peak times these will actually be powered down and then uh team members will be walking excuse me in the Striped area uh take taking orders uh and this is a better better look of what the fan and and the heaters look like uh just and again it's just for team members what they have found is that some people do get a little bit of heat when they roll their window down in the winter that's just kind of an added benefit there uh but it's really just for uh team members you youve show pictures of the EV charging stations yes are you actually installing them that's excellent question um yes so these will be installed uh day one uh they they have a National Vendor that they uh use uh obviously you know since the Mandate a couple years ago um I say like a year and a half two years ago we were kind of picking between certain vendors to use but they have selected one we've already accounted for them in our uh request for the electric company and these will be installed day one so are these EV are they Universal or are they just the Tes or Universal okay yes uh so th this is the uh this is a long image Drive uh you could kind of see what the the screening uh that I was referencing for the drive-thru the trash and where my mouse is and at the middle of the the right two trees you can't really see it uh and that's a good thing uh but that's where we're proposing the the uh Transformer and the the meters for the hot box um as you could see this is the proposed Monument sign um coming off emence uh and then this is the the trashing closure that I was uh indicating before uh we we obviously positioned it in in a way that um at all angles you're not going to see the face of the uh doors basically all you're going to see is this is Brick uh configuration that matches this it's the same color and same brick that's going to be on the building as well uh this is uh coming off Route One uh going down emans towards the site uh you could see the the screening that we're we're proposing as well uh along with the the proposed Monument signed to the connection to emans uh and again you could you could see what we're really uh going for and it's to to screen some of the utilities and and the drive-thru aspect as well uh and that that brings me to uh basically the the color um specs of the building uh and I know there and I'll share another exhibit as well that shows you what it looks like next to the proposed Wawa uh and how they they kind of complement each other uh um so at the back the the last two sheets are uh what the proposed exterior elevations are this is just a a 2d flat uh look at it uh you can see there's there's two different colors uh it's a it's a dark brown um I would say uh and that's that is all brick and it's at the bottom half of uh the building and then the top half has a little bit more of a lighter uh Brown as well um and it's and it's consist all all around the uh the building so there's only multiple colors between the uh the light and dark brown the the red for the uh proposed Chick-fil-A signage and then the dark bronze uh kind of finishes it off should this be marked as an exhibit uh it's a Contin if you want we can mark it a A9 it's the same sheets as yeah so there the last two sheets of A8 um right they happen to be in there so the dark Browns that have on the sheet that's going to be the same color as that of the light B that's correct yep and that's designed so everything kind of Blends into each other um was any consideration given to uh sunscreens or shading over the exterior dining area as I observed in Edison New Jersey isbr if you uh I'll go back there are The Umbrellas you're right Michael but I was thinking of the other c um if you if you bear with me um I'm sure we could probably accommodate it uh usually it's for the T tables um obviously goes right in the center of the pole usually with the two tabletops it's a little harder kind of kind of do well I however at Edison New Jersey was more of a uh helped me out it was this more of a sunscreen uh right on and that that's another point though Dan making a good point too we're on the north side of the building which won't in certain times of the day get as much sunlight right okay that's fine okay um so I'm we're gonna mark this one a A9 A9 A9 uh and this is a Chick-fil-A waa poor elevation comparison exhibit um and it's basically just a side by side of the the other use that is excuse me uh under construction uh so you could see what they basically would look like uh next to each other uh you can see they they have the same kind of uh dark and light brown up top uh I know the the uh the wa itself always has brick at the bottom very very decorative look our building is Brick as well so similar uh materials uh and it just kind of It kind of works out uh well that the Wawa sign is also red uh with the Chick-fil-A so you're not going to have you know competing colors for signage as well so collectively as the the the once U formal parcel uh you know we will be U you know working efficiently both for circulation uh but as um I guess visual impacts and looks like and a chicken uh everything will kind of play play off each other uh and you know kind of make a well-rounded comprehensive uh plan basically um the last thing I'm just going to touch on um as I've already indicated a few times you are decreasing impious coverage uh therefore you know we we have met all the the Stow water requirements the township Township the drcc the sore erosion as well as uh d as well um so it's a it's it's drainage plant from my perspective on on the detail sheet C11 you have the flag po oh um more no I know there's no but my question is what is the actual flag size going to be on this PO so I know I believe it so the the flag itself uh I'm going back to A1 uh it's in the I guess the east side of the corner of the the Northeast and South Southeast portion in the island the fly pole itself is going to be 50 feet tall um I'm also going from memory but I think it's 26 square feet thank you 216 square feet me Dimension I'm sorry a dimension what's the length and width I can get that I'm not too sure what those dimensions are um and just to clarify too and this was uh completely on me uh we had additionally initially identified that flag pole as needing design waver relief upon subsequent review of the regulations was brought to my attention that the definition of flag actually specifically includes national state county and Municipal flags and are not prohibited by the ordinance so those fly the flag standard design standards that we have don't actually apply if the sign is utilized for the state of New Jersey so somebody could come in and put up a 100 foot flag pole yeah as of right are you serious as of right now that's that your ORD be like a Route 22 it'll be like a card like 22 Route 17 Route four right now there's nothing Clon well that's that's why I'd like to get a handle on exactly what the dimensions are are there restrictions on the size of the flag or the no so then there unless the Township's going to pass an ordinance regarding the size of the flag he just sent that memo out like yesterday got to support the team as long as that team is specifically a state county or national flag okay there you go all right so so the other question I have is since you're going to be putting the American flag up there do you have lighting for that yes there's going to be lighting how is it going to be from the bottom the top down with the 50ft pole which standard we can eliminate that from anything lower than that ask oh from the roof so you're going to be having a flood light going across to that side yeah the building is only 21 ft high so the five pole would be able to be illuminated from move without having play you never see the light well I I I have some doubts about that typically you'd have it coming from the ground up so you wouldn't have that kind of potential problem um you see you certainly see the source that's I'm sorry here it's on the roof you won't see the source well the the way they have them for the flag poles I mean you could have it in the ground going up you could have it Midway and it would be a basically decorative fixture on it preference of the preference we can certainly illuminate ground I I think that would be preferable in terms of design and would wouldn't have any difficulty but somebody complains that we're getting the light FL light it just I think a better how about how about if they work with our landscape architect to figure something out okay what we gonna say weal Fe by 18 ft so that's basically the side of handicap parking space yeah just about yeah okay that's right yes it is uh so if this board wants to outside of this application consider authorizing an ordinance to address that I mean from my perspective you could have people up in number one doing the same kind of thing let see 50 foot high do we have any other flags flag waving over one do you have any flags that size in town I I don't know because they don't need a permit from my office to do that so I don't have recollection of yeah it was very interesting because this is actually the first flag poll right that I've had to review in my five six years with West Winds here so far so it's not something that pops up often it wouldn't be triggered by a planning or zon Board review so it wouldn't come for a public hearing but isn't there an ordinance regarding um structure well the the construction Department would review it to make sure that it's you know you know secure to the ground properly and so forth and whatever electricals need to illuminate the flag but but in the ordinance as M was saying you have P restrictions yeah but typically we don't apply those accessory structure limitations to signage otherwise but you have otherwise though Allan we would be making every monument side go for bar for being located in the front yard talk no you have sheds in the backyards you need height there height restrictions yeah I wouldn't consider a flag pole an accessory structure that would have to meet the setback requirement it is struct well so is the monument sign but when why we why don't we allow why don't we require virually for Monument signs at our front yard because technically that would be an accessory structure located with the front yard area you're per we don't require it for the charging stations for EVS either especially for the Wawa here the EV charging stations are in the front yard setback I would agree that there should be regulations put in place regarding these types of flag BS yeah I I mean I I really believe that the height requirement basically should be met well if the board is interested we have a council member who sits on the board if the board wants to address that to the council representative to bring it back to council to see if that's something they want to address that can be done uh I have a couple questions regarding the height and um we have we have ordinances regarding um mobile antennas I I I would make like if this gets approved I want a condition that no uh antennas or repeaters or anything go on top this interesting yeah that's fine but it also antenna is allowed to be 55 feet in height in all districts so an antenna or co-regulates antennas not cell towers but antennas they can be 55 feet in height right cell towers it depends on where they're at right flag okay no it isy something you see at almost every location at every one of your Lo right one other question how close is the closest residence and the reason why I ask is because a flag this size on a windy day makes a lot of noise when it you know kind of like goes in and out of the wind I would say Michael would be the Seminary housing in Woodmont it would be you're looking at actually be Woodstone so if you take a left out of the site onto Em's drive go to the intersection of Wheeler Way the nearest dwelling would probably be around it's like 2,000 feet or something no not quite that much around 710 feet that's measuring from the back of the old um old hotel there if it's going to make more noise than the ordinance allows for decb we'll have somebody from the health department go out and check that flag when it's blowing in the wind Mike Michael another question is would it make more noise than the highway traffic on US Route one that's that's true okay the question I have is do you have to have it at 15 feet going it be lower you prefer to keep it there that's our preference company height yeah as a point of reference if this was a corporate flag that wouldn't be allowed if it was a corpor they would be allowed a height of 18 feet if they do they would require a waiver and you always have to fly the corporate flag below the American flag that's that's the rule right it's also flag odd that the well I don't know if there's any state laws or national laws but typically signage supposed to be content neutral but that's the way your ordinance is written look if there's no ordinance to limit the size you look up chick intern the flags they show flags of all the images not overwhelming it is very it is very important doesn't look overwhelming especially since the yeah yeah it's not windy it's it's just hanging down not flying over 's drive okay maybe the township wants to take up um take that out our civil engineering testimony be happy to answer I do have one more so um uh the parking area there's the two EV spaces correct there three there's the two EV regular Spaces by the EVS yet there's also the barrier free spot to the right of that correct which can utilize the eveve but can it also just function as Berry free parking alone there's there's nothing stopping anybody from using it as verer Fray uh we do have you know code compliant and uh an easier access to the to the main doors um but there is nothing stopping I'm thinking if the other for some reason if the other three three spots are two or three spots yes they can they can definitely use this and without having to use the EV correct they don't have to they don't even have to pretend to plug it in because I I I saw on your parking scheme you did not put the EV symbol on the barrier free spot correct and that was to make sure that it was left alone for anybody that drives an EV that needs the the thinking function yeah so the answer is yes you could park in there if your regular passenger car really it it restricts uh some other EV uh person using it that you know doesn't actually have the St were you gonna say something David no I was about to say technically I think pursuant to the state regulations in the Township Code that ADA space is not required to be an EV space that doesn't kick in until I believe it's over 100 parking spaces but we we or yeah I have a quick question um regarding the very bottom very center there's like a stop sign there I saw it on one of the the circulation exhibits okay you know where I'm talking about the area um trying to help me with mouse it would be in the well let's look at um the garbage truck circulation plan one of one or the or or the fire in the okay in the middle there's five spaces and there's a stop sign right 10 and then I guess if you if you went straight or something you can then make a um a leftand turn and get back onto Route One you go into the but is is there a one way is it are you allowed to do that which which way you're saying back here yeah sure yeah like there's a stop this there right but if you don't that's kind of like you're making a ride if you went straight and you can you pass through those parking spaces and get back on to uh the road to Route One or is it blocked no okay yeah this is you know those five what about those five spaces employes correct so you can't you can't drive through there okay okay you know go down um really not gonna happen okay thank you okay I'm good what you go straight back to Route One uh yeah I'm referencing like instead of making that right and that stop go straight through the employee parking spaces get back on to like a road no okay Michael having looked at that um it makes me also wonder um and this is going to be outside your scope but it's a concern in regards to the site maybe you can do that uh to the right of the five spaces that's the um the garbage area for Wawa right am I correct in understanding the site yeah to the right of those five spaces going towards us route one that looks like it's the garbage yeah space for Wawa do we remember uh their hours of operation for that pick up no limit it's a 247 use so if they do mid-afternoon pickup of trash that's going to be a traffic issue uh in between the Chick-fil-A and the Wawa am I correct okay that's that's right they do it pretty quick you can't drive from Wawa through those parking spaces into Chick-fil-A site right they're blocked right no so the only access from Wawa is is the rear of the site where they share a common Drive aisle that's the only place right where the stop sign is correct okay correct correct okay thank you any other questions not I have traffic okay y Jerry a question just a question um those eight outdoor spaces on which are immediately chasing the building but they're overlooking a parking lot uh is it possible to shift them into some landscaped area which which SP spes the out the eight the Y they're overl looking a parking lot uh is there a way that they can be shifted into a landscape area um yeah okay debatable words there okay sure um so I have a Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering University licensed professional engineer New Jersey and Pennsylvania certified for fedal traffic operations engineer and I testified for of other land use boards throughout the state license is current in New Jersey yes it is okay thank you thank you that's correct sure so just going to give quick overview of the site from the traffic and parking perspective uh starting outwardly the adjacent roadway Network and working our way interior to the interior site circulation starting with your site access points as you heard before relative to the approved Hotel site plan the driveways are being Consolidated from two separate T intersection driveways to a single driveway opposite the driveway across the street uh that's beneficial from a traffic safety perspective reduces the total number of conflict points and gives you one conventional L like intersection instead of a sequence of individual T intersections um moving on to the traffic study summary uh we submitted a traffic study and support of the application we projected traffic volumes for each of these uses using the do approved rates for the approved waa approved hotel and proposed Chick-fil-A it's important to note for this Chick-fil-A it's a complimentary use to the Wawa and there's the opportunity for customers to visit a combination of uses either the restaurant and the convenience for the restaurant fuel it's also a convenience-based use uh that draws a lot of its customer base from the existing traffic bonds passing the road there's do approved methodologies for both of those factors that we can apply within our TR report we also perform traffic counts to establish existing conditions at our proposed site access point also at the intersection to the east of route one and emans and the intersection to the West at em way and compared the operational efficiency of each of those intersections with and without this proposed project to assess the difference uh what we found is that our propos driveway is projected to operate at good levels of service and there's little to no change in levels of service at any of the offsite intersections or approv wild driveways resulting from those change in use uh so in our professional opinion traffic study demonstrates There's No undo traffic impact externally from this property moving interior to the site uh talking about the layout start with this drive-thru as you heard before this a dual drive-through configuration all the way through the system including ordering fillment there's no merging so you get the actual stop you drive through entirely that's chick's preferred standard for new stores they find it's more efficient reduces weight times and reducing weight time to get a out of the CU pter is the best way we can control a CU length that builds up within the system the actual size of it is also substantial as you've heard before we can stack over 50 vehicles I counted it as 52 we have uh operational research data from a dozen or so other Chick-fil-A restaurants in New Jersey and the peak average we see at the other restaurants is in the high 20s quaring 30 so you have substantially more stacking capacity here than what we've seen in other locations uh there's also ific overflow stacking available within the site if it should ever be needed that 52 is just within the concrete hatch drive-thru lanes that you see which would terminate our internal parking lot nowhere near the external terms of parking as you heard before we're actually seeking some relief for providing additional parking spaces uh up front we're proposing to build 67 with a contingency for six additional Banks the 67 is right in line with chick-fil corporate standard for what they seek for their new stores uh it's important to note they actually have additional team members compared to some of their competitors I actually looked at the former ra application just for reference and we have more employees on our site than their site despite having a SW ability uh and they have fuel operation to to man as well so that's the chief reason we're seeking additional parking there's also industry standard data published by The Institute of Transportation Engineers for fast food restaurants drive-through that project a higher parking demand for these types of uses than your ordinance requirement so for both of those we seeking the additional parking because we think it improves the efficiency of the site loading as youve heard before we're seeking the Le for providing zero loading spaces where one is required that is because the tractor trailer deliveries occur overnight it's ideal from our perspective uh in that there's no interaction between those delivery vehicles and customers and the truck has free Rin of the site to unload wherever it's most efficient lastly I'll just touch briefly uh on our do component we are obviously uh sharing access through the Wawa to us rout one which requires dot input there was a previous access permit granted for the Wawa Intel project an updated permit will be sought for this change in use uh assuming a favorable action by this board this even and the last thing I'll touch on is just the comment that was brought up earlier regarding the location of the connection between waa and chickfila I would certainly in my opinion consider the proposed location which is what was previously approved the desired location and that separates our Peak activity which is our drive-thru from W Peak activity which is the guess that Northern aisle on the W site is most likely the busiest aisle on any of their four sites if you don't one of course small chck traffic to use that aisle that's really all I have I'm happy to take any questions questions for engine anybody so okay here's a question okay you originally showed um I guess it was SE 13 Bank parking spaces 14 I'm sorry 14 so you're removing I guess seven from the Wawa side and you're keeping six on the on your side so yeah there's a little bit of confusion in that that Central double loaded uh parking aisle the ones facing the Chick-fil-A site are the ones we're considering is associated with the Chick-fil-A operation there are six banked on that side and if memory service there's eight Banks facing the W and that's not your property uh it is in our property but primarily in turn it to serve W as operation since it's a mixed use site overall all right so I'm looking at this this entrance way which I have to tell you I've never seen anything so poorly designed it's so convoluted you have when you're exiting through that entrance you have a 90° uh uh turn uh but it's sort of like that's not the way people drive you know you're not going to go up to the point and then make a left and then go around you're more fluid in terms of the movement yet your curving is very deceptive in terms of well this is the way this is what I should be following I think it's I think it's very poor and no there's no striping again there there isn't any striping but again more importantly as I said before I think those six Bank parking spaces are a hazard if you want to have six spaces you have an island um directly across from it you could possibly put in some you have right in front of Chick-fil-A you could put in at least three or four but that is very bad and you com combining it with this very convoluted ter it actually reminds me of the very poor intersection on the adjacent property at the side of Marshalls when you're coming in by uh the A1 um uh limine service you're coming down and you're you have a stop sign for one point the other side there's no stop sign and again it's going into a 90 degree uh situation I think that really has to be looked at and I really think you have to you really need those six spaces you can find them or you can Bank them other places so I can address both of those items uh first one was the layout of the the actual access driveway um and that was a challenging layout for a few reasons first uh what really drove the layout of the site was the location of the building the drive-through Lanes we work through a number of different options with your professionals and settled on this being the preferred layout in terms of the actual operation of the site so that left us with this uh North South aisle on the Eastern side of our property and in an ideal world that would be a straight shot up to Evans and that EXA the issue is that creates in our opinion a much less safe condition at Em's drive because now you have a new T intersection that's essentially directly adjacent to the wild driveway and directly offset from the driveway across the street so from an 's Drive perspective wants to be aligned directly where it is opposite their driveway and we did our best to smooth out the the route between the two we work with your Fire official to add some additional um to curb SL curve on some of the Turning radi in case the larger Vehicles should be to mount it yeah but we did our best in I think the striping through that area center line striping is a good suggestion uh we would be happy to add that as well to help elimate that keep you better proper side again I I really think that you should just Curve Your basically should put the curbing along the curve so that you're coming uh if you take a look at the um the garbage uh thing you have the uh the the movement of the uh garbage truck so if you were to curb that area I think that would be much smoother rather than the 90 degrees is this the plan you were referring to the garbage truck yes so you see the movement of the garbage truck at the uh at that um at the entrance way coming in well you're coming in and then you see the curve at that angle at the where the curves angle let me just yeah if you follow that and your line here with the curbing that would be much better just so make sure I'm understanding you're saying why in the drive aisle in the location of the six Bank smooth this out right this this is really being controlled by the interior radius here uh we don't want this to come to an acute angle we were to as to smooth it out further because this right turn to get to the drivethru the main move is g to be a lot more challenging I mean we're certainly happy to work further with your professionals to smooth out that entrance way um we hear your concern we think there's a work solution in there so that would please the board we're happy to work with him further I I think that that has to be looked at and again I think that the bank parking spaces have to be removed right so that was the second part of your question I didn't address yet um in terms of the bank parking spaces again up front we're only proposing the 67 because that's what we feel we need uh we just want the contingency to add those if they were necessary they are certainly the least desirable parking spaces on the site uh they would absolutely be restricted to team members only I don't think customers would choose to park there if they had another option anyway again there are alternatives to those spaces if you need the six Bank you can put them in front of the chick Pila the side the side of the the east side of the trifa um couple I would consider that a worst location simply because it's right where our drive-thru exits and it's where the route one traffic enters that's probably one of the busier locations on our site well compared I disagree with you on that point I think this is more critical up here yeah uh can I ask question to Kazi for from Traffic Safety point of view isn't it easier if you break make somebody stop and turn right rather than just let them fly through he's he's he's saying a stop sign and turn right rather than just giving a straight Road to ammon's drive right so from Traffic Safety point of view isn't it better if somebody has to stop and turn rather than just have a straight road I think the straight the way it's proposed right now it's it's I don't see any any reason for being an unsafety here unsafe I'm sorry what did you say yeah I I don't see any reason why the proposed design being unsafe well disagree with you on that point um but another alternative location for the bank parking uh would be next to the trash and Clos you can line it up there yeah I think that's where we have the Transformer Bo is that the space you're referring to well I don't see the Transformer on the hot box on my plant so I don't know but yeah I'm gonna flip over there again so right here I believe is where you're referring to we just have utility structures in that area I'm sorry oh yes yes yep and that's where your hot box is that's correct the that can't be moved to another site I would defer to our engineer to answer that specifically warmer in that location so it can be screen the only alternative that we could move it would be closure to end due to restrictions based on B company they have certain distance requirements from the main to where their meters are so we felt better position to flip it internally and provide screening so you don't see you know an ugly structure if you will and you couldn't put screening in that area along Edmund's Drive either if you would move the hot pop there because the water main is in the middle of the street you have a better you have a better chance of seeing it if it's closer to em than if it was flipped internal so again we we felt it was a better spot to locate it um for functionality purposes and and Screen we didn't have any you know comments the professional on it anything like that's fine but that's why we have a planning board also so we listen to our professionals we have our own opinions as well there I think I think that would be very good solution to this whole situation answer to your questions when when you add more turns it create it creates more conflict Point rather than going straight so that's more safer so that's why I'm saying it's I don't see any reasons it may improve circulation but it's not a safety issue right okay correct the Transformer back shift the B parking to that area are you gonna be able to there's I'm sorry yeah no promise but suggestions heard we will we can do it we okay thought put at least four spaces well that's what I was trying to look at that northeasterly banked area has how many spaces is that six six six you might be able toit four three or four I mean if we were we were able to fit at four uh that would essentially eliminate the spaces within the entrance driveway the two would be in the parking lot area so I think the four we'd be able to remove are the four of the greatest relevance to this and I would say yeah eliminating the to Allen Point I would say eliminating the banked parking spaces nearest to that we'll call it that the curve right angle elbow is probably the most exactly I think that would work out nicely can you bring up the comparison image again yes okay so my question my question on the comparison image yes was A2 my question on the comparison image is um from when uh the Zoning Board of adjustment approved the entry to the hotel uh to the left of the Wawa it looks like it's in the same exact same place as now the new emens road entrance to Chick-fil-A is that correct no the Hotel this Eastern Hotel driveway was further east than our this this entrance right here and this entrance right here correct so they approved one the same place they are not the proposed one now is slightly further to the West than the approved Hotel driveway further to the West yes so that hotel driveway wasn't quite aligned with the uh Commerce Center driveway and as part of this design we shifted it slightly West to properly align it directly opposite Sam Sam um when when the Zoning Board of adjustment approved uh the that the application as a zba application did was a waiver needed because the driveways were close to one another I mean we have laws and rules about driveways being close to one another on adjacent properties correct I I don't know but I know this application doesn't need a waiver for that I don't remember whether or not the driveway for the proposed Hotel needed a waiver because it was closer to the Wawa one I'm not sure off the top of my head Curtis I think it may have been the Wawa entrance how close it was to Route One that that was an issue I do remember that that sounds familiar Dan but I was wondering close this driveway to driveway you should check with Vice chair of the zoning board I should I should check with the vice chair of the zoning board if he can actually the vice chair was chairing for that application so I I actually right I was I I sorry gang I can't remember so I'll see if I can find the resolution to see if I can find an answer um I I'm okay Allan with the the the squared off drive and I'll tell you why if necessary um if they keep the banks parking and I sort of I'm sort of with you on the idea that's a very unsafe place to put additional parking but I would think that if requested the they could stripe the the curvature of the road without changing it and that it would still direct drivers as to how that would work yes it does not show up no I mean this there's no real striping on here except uh my there's minor locations of striping but um I I could see that that that being being striped accordingly we agree completely I think that's a great suggestion we will add striping through that driveway and if they got and I'm okay with this whole curved entry into it first of all it's going to slow people down God knows New Jersey drivers need to drive slower period um and U you know my concern is once they enter the site you know getting to the the uh lanes for the drive-thru but it's one of those things and we talked about this similarly when we did the Starbucks across the street you know the first time you know it's going to take some figuring out but then subsequent visits people will know where to go so um my concern is for the uh the the driver that's you know first time entering or traveling through New Jersey and wants to stop here and being able to figure out where to go and how to do it so Cur is good memory there was a waiver that was requested from I won't go through this section number but it's for the number of driveways uh where two or more driveways connect to a single site to any road a minimum clear distance of 200 ft along the RightWay line shall separate the closest edges of any two driveways uh that distance was not maintained for the proposed WWA lot so design waiver was required for that so there was a waiver required regarding the driveways for the Wawa okay let's move on I have one more witness our professional planner we very little variance re Rel so should be quick before we move on I just want to summarize what was just talked about to make sure we have it right which is to move the hot box right we're going to explore explore the explore Transformer Hot Box yes um potenti switching the four Bank parking to a different anything else in that series no also the St and the striping okay that's fine thank you oh one other question on that how common is it for chickfila to always request Bank parking is that common for you to do this it's not as common in the past as I think it will be in the future only because as Mr Martinez testified to we're seeing the explosion and the popularity of the restaurant company so I think going forward you may see more of that as they know we growing into sites right um some of the sites that Mr Martinez described earlier they're they were over parked by a couple years in underp parked excuse me um so this is something I think you'll see more of going full is that fair John our uh State your qualifications please Danel block again BL with Coler engineering and Designs uh licensed professional planner and state of New Jersey certified by the American Institute of certified planners I have bachelor's degree in urban planning and environmental design from the University of Buffalo uh been testifying since 2010 uh as a professional planner testif testified before over a hundred planning and zoning boards all across New Jersey and was once a consultant to this and your license is current in New Jersey yes it okay thank you and we accept this accept thank you again the property is in the B2 Zone it is a permitted use by right there are no variances being requested uh with this application we do have some designed waivers or exceptions that are being requested um which I will go through testimony on that quickly um which I believe can be granted by the board under section 51b of the municipal land use law uh where it says that a design exception can be granted if the literal enforcement is impracticable or will exact an undue hardship because of peculiar conditions on the property and there is case law on uh on the granting of exceptions um which is the garoo the Burlington case which uh the court said that a waiver is simply an acknowledgement by the board that the conditions as proposed are acceptable and satisfactory as designed so that's what I think we have here for all of the conditions which the engineer went through uh great detail on the reasons why we're requesting these waivers U so I'll go through them again quickly the first one was uh where a loading birth is required uh we're requesting not to have a loading birth the deliveries will come in off hours so you don't need a separate designated area for that they can just come in and park next to the building bring in the deliveries and then leave so uh no no need for that one you heard testimony about the number of parking spaces we are requesting an ex excess of parking spaces I think we're at 16 more when you do the math then then what's required uh some of those being banked some of them being counted duplicate for the EV spaces so uh there is testimony we want to make sure there's enough parking we don't want to have any parking overflow onto adjacent sites so that's the reason for requesting excess we really want to make sure there's there's adequate there's two waivers requested for the lighting uh again this is just uh uh trying to juggle the different requirements of the zoning code um where we have minimums maximums and averages that are required I think we did the best we could to try to accommodate that I think we have a safe design and uh I think your board professionals are okay with this uh so we are requesting a waiver for those uh exceptions the wall signage um we have two proposed wall signs one on the the call it the Southside facing route one one on the easterly or Northerly side facing Em's drive both of those signs are slightly larger than 50 square feet about 58 square feet when you look at the lettering the lettering is about 2 feet it's the the uh the logo of the C for the chicken C logo it looks it's 5 feet tall it's a lot larger than the rest of the lettering it's just the way that their their branding uh operates if you were to shrink that sign down it would be unreadable so I think we really do need that size signage particularly given the setbacks from those two roadways you need to be able to see that those signs so we are requesting both the size and the number of signs I think uh and I think those are appropriate um and then the freestanding sign we are requesting a number of waivers there we have the logo on the Wawa Monument freestanding sign at the corner of emans drive and one which is not on this property so it's on the adjacent property on this property we're requesting another banding Monument sign 8 feet tall we're only four feet tall as as permitted and as you heard the engineer testify we really need that extra height to get above the Landscaping to provide visibility as people are coming up uh one turning on 's drive or coming from Em's Drive the other way to see that sign and know exactly where they're supposed to turn just to avoid any confusion so for w w finding we really want to make sure that that sign is visible people know where they're going uh the instructional signage again the ordinance allows for a two square foot maximum for the uh instructional signage on site we're requesting three square feet so instead of one foot wide sign were one and a half by two slightly larger really imperceptible difference to the average person on the site just gives a little better Vis visibility of those signs makes them uh more more noticeable and then the outdoor um Paving we're required to have uh pavers for the sidewalks and and walkways we have a stamped concrete if you will instead of a paper so it's a little more durable long lasting gives you the similar a similar appearance but technically we need a wer from that um and I believe that was all of them so if there's any questions I'd be happy to go into more detail on any of those could you go back to what you CED for garolo which one garolo in terms of the standard I don't think that's cor I I don't I G Garo yeah I oh garolo yeah did you get out that out of Cox yes that's out of Cox I mean that that just a very short section from con yes it is and it should be ignored by the board I have no problem with that I go by the municipal land use law standard which says uh little enforcement would be impracticable or undo hardship I think we meet that standard in each one of these waivers I agree with you the grappo we we can we can ignore that y good thank you thank you question for our planner I reintroduce here for one more clarification any question I just have one question for you um in terms of the wall signage would you do you believe that the wall signage is proportional to the building itself and not overpowering yes I do I do believe that they are very proportional to the building the wall the the facade that they're being mounted to I think they're in a in good scale and Conformity right similar to the Wawa I think you have very similar scalability there thank Youk oh again the papers do the ordinance say that we have to have pervious or impervious papers I'm not sure whether it's uh section 200- 36.1 establishes that impervious surfaces shall be used for all drives and parking areas impervious surfaces shall be used for all other paved areas okay perious is required if it's not a right so okay so it's basically more for water infiltration yeah would say for water infiltration yes so the stamp concrete while it might look like P doesn't achieve that okay yeah I agree um and as the engineer mentioned we are still decreasing the amount of impervious surfaces on the site for what was previously approved for the hotel so I think the net water infiltration is going to be greater than what was previously proved in either case thank you thank you very much just just want to point out one thing um so the the total building square foot is actually 5,332 square feet on our plans we show it as 5,2 I think 26 basically 106 increase uh and that is due to the fact that I talked to the architect today uh and they they need to increase the the square footage of the building by such uh to kind of get some um current Design Elements uh that chck is currently as you heard Mr Martinez say uh they're kind constantly revamping everything so to make sure that this site gets the current you know bells of whistles uh and due to some utilities we just need to increase that a little bit uh it doesn't affect anything doesn't uh affect any um impervious coverage uh setbacks subsequently the the waiver we're asking for we need one more parking space so we're technically decreasing the the waiver that we're asking for uh and that that just want to put that on the record uh that the next plans will have that uh correct square footage on it um but just want to make that okay and and the new size of the building is 5,233 square feet 5332 oh 5332 yes correct 5332 so so you w for the extra parking spaces is one less than okay y also concludes our direct testimony you happy to answer any questions or have any my will answer questions if yeah um we're going to hear from our professionals now I ask a question first David David uh I'm going back to the Wawa application yes signage Wawa building sign at Wawa was that a waiver I believe that probably was a waiver yes think that the proportion of that sign in relation to the the Chick-fil-A sign yet I'm also reflecting that um all the signage on the buildings of Windsor green which are more distant from US Route One um I they I think they're conforming to our code I I mean I can't think of any large signs over at Windsor green that are as big as the requested Chick-fil-A building sign I that one I would be unfamiliar with uh it looks like the Wawa application did require waiver relief for both the number of signs on the WWA building itself so they had proposed two signs whereas only one would be permitted uh there's also a waiver requested for the area of those sides as well as well as a letter height so and and the Z board granted that that was granted as well yes uh the the waiver that I really focused on in preparation for this hearing tonight would be the monument sign that was previously associated with that hotel so I guess I'm kind of hopping into my memo here should I jump into it why not so I I had a memo I had actually two memos one dated February 28th 2024 and one dated February 29th 2024 which is supplement uh those memos provided a little bit of background information on this property as well as what that prior approval was uh that was back in 2020 in front of the zoney board of adjustment uh that memo also discusses the master plan it raises a number of issues that we wanted the applicant to touch upon which I believe the applicant has largely addressed uh starting with the waiver relief for the the signage long story short I really have no objection to the waivers which are being requested with this application first off regarding the monument sign I do see the need for an additional Monument sign along Em's drive to direct traffic into and out of that driveway uh the proposed sign does require a waiver for its height uh I am happy to see though that the um uh sign is just about the same height of what was otherwise approved proved I think it was around 8 ft versus 7.33 ft um the wall mounted signage uh originally when this application came in there was signage on all four facades uh we had requested that that be removed only two entrances with the applicant did obliged to uh I do agree with the applicant's planner that those sides are proportional to the facade area based on a rough calculation um they're slightly less than 5% of the facade area which is usually a magri number I always like to look for the sizes of those attached signs are also driven by that logo uh specifically we measure signage based on a box of the total sign area because of that chicken logo which is the c as well as what they call the comb on top of it that's the red Flappy part of a chicken that increases that require that that measured signage height so otherwise I do find that the signs are proportional the sides of the building there is no base behind it so thankfully that script of the sign is relatively open so I had no objection to that also I had no objection to the instructional signage request as well I do think that instructional signs that are clear and legible for this site are essential for proper circulation um that's essentially all I had uh if anybody has any questions for me um regarding any of other aspects of this application planning zoning um I'm sure that the other professionals will touch on those other waiver requests but I wanted to specifically address Sonage you you you covered all of the wave requests under your purview David I never really know it's my purview or not um but I did address the ones under signage um that would include the freestanding signage the wall mounted signage and the instructional signage um regarding the perious use of perious pavers um parking loading and circulation as well as lighting I typically do refer to the other experts on those uh okay regarding the use of perious papers this application I will add does decrease the impervious coverage of not necessarily was on the site which is true but also what was previously approved that hotel it's a a slight decrease it goes from 38.4% to 37.7% so okay that's at least a step in the right direction yep okay and no so no issues no issues on my end okay great any questions for David no oh yeah go ahead BR yeah I I had no objection to the trash being uh picked up four times a week thankfully the closest dwelling going to be about 800 feet away um I had no I had no objection forget we're only open six days as well good luck can we request the the garbage truck not to back up so no beeps are heard I'm kidding um we can't control everything you know just going over your your second memo on the flags not be but basically you're talking it's talking about a sign okay and it's saying that a national flag is not considered a sign so it's permitted that's fine but it really says nothing about the PO and the canot be reg by height when you read your definition well it says national state county or Municipal flags are not considered flag signs and are not prohib by this ordinance and that's that's true the flag is not prohibited by the ordinance it doesn't say anything about the flag pole because you could put a it says a sign that's mounted on a freestanding Pole or other support okay um you know the flag itself is not considered the sign and that's what this is ref to it doesn't say anything about the supports not having to meet any ordinance standards that's my interpretation of so so your interpretation would be that the flag itself is subject to the flag area regulations but the flag pole would still be measured by flag signage I'm saying that the flag itself is permitted okay the national flag is permitted but the poll itself is I think still comes into the regulations very least to fight this is really Sam's call as a zoning officer and is he indicated previously um he's interpreted this as a as the H restriction doesn't apply to the pole now Sam is that because the flag and the pole are kind of like considered one structure correct and we've never in the 35 years I've been with the township regulated the height of a flag pole anywhere so I'm sure we have car I don't know about in West Windsor but in Lawrenceville there must be a car dealer with a flag pole above 50 feet or you know and I don't know the FL over Carnegie Center and some of those Office Buildings I mean those Office Buildings are what three four stories high those flag poles are pretty high up there with those Office Buildings and they're they never come in for waivers we've never had any issues with them at all I I I think that it's something that should be considered really because somebody you know what does along with the highway can basically say oh this is great they got 50 side I'm going to put up a 100 foot side I got to put up a flag that's going to to be you know twice as large as that yeah I I don't dis I don't disagree at all I I I don't always love large American flags on highways um I make me make me sound not patriotic but they're just they're just advertising right that's basic what it comes down to yeah it is and so I would agree with you I think uh uh well I think it'd be worth while to investigate that okay well the township will consider and take that up but for this application the the view is that the flag and the flag pole are one structure understand okay so we actually had a case in one of my other municipalities where there's a 50 foot flag B that was required or proposed there is a variance that was sought for it the objecting attorney to that application said it was a principal use in the site therefore required a D6 height variance oh my God and the judge initially AG the first judge and agreed with them and then it was overturned and the appeal court ripped that other judge to shredz but yes it's something that should be definitely okay uh who wants to go next quazi yeah you're up sorry yeah this is quazi M traffic traffic engineer for the township I do have two comments uh the first one relates to the video file we requested to get a fing how the dve through Lanes will operate at any other New Jersey Chick-fil-A so we did receive a video but the problem is we think that the video was filmed during the non-p hours so we didn't see any cues uh if you could please I put a stamp like what time the video was taken and the date John Mar again to respond that video s again it wasn't necessarily to describe what's going to happen this understand how the operation works the video itself has taken from the store I believe in North Carolina okay um and so I'm not necessarily able to go back figure out exactly what time I can try but I again that's just more for for your Consultants uh not a representation how here yeah it just show generally operations okay all right so see what what further information if you could gather for that video okay all right and the second one is a minor comment there was an error in the signage w112 because new MCD changed the dimensions so if you could please revise it all right that's all I have thank you I have a question for you so you're in agreement with the traffic study that was done yes yes okay and that there will be no backup onto Em's drive from this property correct that's one of the reasons they circulated the drive-thru Lanes wrapped around the property right so that's why you have the double and you double thank you thank you um want to go Dan or friend because mine's easy good evening Fe my this Dan Derber milsky landscape architect for the township my reports dated February 28th uh there were four uh comments first one's just indicating that the this does not affect the green belt and that the tree removal is minimal um and was already anticipated with the hotel proposal the second one was indicating that the layout was very efficient for with the use of pavement and my opinion very addressed the aesthetic concerns we had and appreciate that the applicant and their Consultants worked with us to try try and get through all the challenges that were associated with this application and this type of use uh the third one is just indicating that the landscape that they're proposing is compliant with the code requirements and the final is indicating that they did have several favorable Green Building checklist elements uh implemented with this project um any questions any of the waivers that they're requesting any issues with anything falls under your purview no I I I don't have any issues with them I think but they they gave very good testimony with the rationale for those and I think that was compelling and made sense to me okay thank you any questions for Dan okay Fran you're out good evening Francis gik Township engineer uh referring to the memo of February 28th um a number of the comments have been touched upon or addressed by the testimony by Mr Martinez Mr Kelly Mr Downey uh also some of the waivers reiterated by Mr Block so um I'll just stick to those things that really I haven't heard anything about so in the report on page three comment 1.06 uh was looking for a testimony on the potential need for any new amended or revised easements over the property um I believe one was discussed about a potential agreement with the center owner to uh Route One South but um I don't know if it also affects anything with the cross access with the Wawa or any shared parking agreements Etc we acknowledge there there will be easements required and some already exist we'll provide those to your board attorney for okay okay but none of those would affect thatal effect or any okay thank you um uh comment 2.07 about uh access and circulation um was about potential tit title 39 enforcement for the property if there was a potential need for it and I think the only thing I really heard tonight was the potential for if any cars were left in the parking lot after hours that would interfere potentially with deliveries um so I don't know if Chick-fil-A enforces Towing for vehicles left overnight if they interfere with operations or if there would be in need for title 39 for have police title 39 sure I didn't do the Wawa application but I'm sure sure they did I'm doing several recently W always agrees to that so chick BL would do it as well the town so desires okay okay okay um comments 3.02 and 3.03 are just some technical issues that are recommended as conditions related to the storm water management for the site but otherwise as you heard basically the reduction in the pre-existing condition by the Demolition and the reduction in proposed parking from the approved Hotel basically is how they obtain compliance with the water quantity quality and uh um recharge basically um so that's considered addressed uh under utilities there's a couple conditions uh one relative to the existing sewer main on the site that's going to be shared with the discharge for the Wawa um right now we have a tentative uh agreement with Wawa that they're going to come out and televise that line but in case of course something happens and Chick-fil-A moves forward first there's a need for the township to be sure that that main is satisfactory so there's a recommended condition for that um and then down in section six or four General comments which are typical conditions recommended for approval for projects um any of the prior comments that I had that were recommended as conditions to the board I've heard one of the professionals indicate they had no objection or were otherwise planning to obtain those conditions or satisfy those conditions so okay and any of the waivers they're asking for not a problem no no no objections to any of the waivers requested most of them are consistent with other applications for similar reasons related to parking average lighting levels the intersection lighting Etc and they agreed to get the Outside Agency approval yeah that was one of the earlier comments I heard from Mr Kelly Jerry we'd also want to site the off trck road assessment fee contribution and the affordable housing fee contribution as two conditions okay um affordable housing to be paid by the hotel would be an offset or they would have had to pay the one and a half or what is it two and a half percent I believe it is yes they haven't paid yet they didn't pay their off track fee or anything okay um uh does the applicant have any issues with our Consultants Township Consultants on any anything they've said mentions so on so forth no issues whatsoever okay um did you just want to read Tim Lynch's report into the record thank you I just want to read into the record it was there was testimony earlier that um Chief Lynch had approved you know your changes mods but I'll read it into record anyway Memo from Chief Lynch dated January 25th 20124 um the updated template shows limited access to building with the West Winds ladder truck uh the applicants installing fire suppression system inside the building uh there's no fire risk assessment noted um water supply for fire protection the site plan list a single hydrant located within the parking lot median directly across from the proposed location of the FDC which is adequate a lock box to allow immediate access to the fire department shall be installed next to the sprinkler closet and he concludes that the applicant is satisfied all comments made by the fire Marshall's office and we recommend approval okay that's much speaking Yeah y um anybody have any further questions issues yeah I've got a question uh for John um and and I sometimes this happens on applications but not always um did you inform us of ours I know about the Sunday but did you inform us about the other hours of operation did what which are which is six six 6 am okay saw breakfast to 10m at okay okay because I did notice on sheet C11 that the signage elevation at 6:30 but I'd also i' I I'd like to give the applicant Freedom if he wants to open earlier and I'll tell you tell you why um in New Jersey people start driving at very earlier hours to get to New York to Philadelphia to commute within the state of New Jersey as well as uh day commuters going distances getting off at New Brunswick to come down highway one to avoid the the massive tolls on the turnpike to get to Philadelphia so there is a good amount of traffic Believe It or Not between the hours of five and six in the morning on US Route One so I'd like to give the applicant Freedom if he wants to open up earlier we nailing him into an opening time actually you're not I mean they could be 24 hours if they want to they wouldn't have to come back to this board they're just mentioning what their hours of operation know like on zoning applications we and if they listen to Rob and open on Sundays they still won't have to come back to us to get permission to open on Sundays I mean some Sam I know in the past on some applications we've tried to nail down ours and I want to make sure that they had f yeah okay thank my is Clos on Sunday oh no so um I'll give you when started his business he he operated a 24hour a day 7 day a week Diner and his brother and is very successful and then they realized it was so successful said hey we're going open the second store we're doing great so they opened the second location but then it was two people that was only one person off operating each one 24 hours a day seven days a week and they ran themselves into the ground and so they decided we can't do this we got we can't go all night we can't go SE seven days a week so this particular dime was out in front of new Forge Factory we built right after World War II down in Atlanta the least busy day was Sunday and so they say r one ship you know we're just going to close Sunday completely allows us to go to church allows us to spend some time family and what we found is very important for our operations you know stores that go 247 when do they maintain their how do they do that can't because they're always in business here on Sunday even though we're closed won't be selling chicken you'll still see people there are doing things that should be done like maintaining equipment changing filters power washing cleaning up um but that's the main reason why it allows post time time to do that hey John can I correct the record just because Sam's comment I promised my wife I'd eat there no more than every other day and so that Sunday really screws things up for me because then sometimes I to go into the follow are you done can I ask John a quick question sure the board will just indulge me and and you brought it up my office happens to be in lawrencville and I live not too far off Baker Basin Road so I drive there many times during the day you met yeah my my pleasure um I I try to avoid it um I sometimes I drive believe it or not to Langhorn because I'm I'm disenthralled with that whole circulation problem you mentioned earlier that you as a good corporate citizen stakeholder you know you're going to be acquiring it's good virtue and you're going to be acquiring a piece of land that might help with that circulation can you just tell me how will land affect this the traffic circulation in your view like what would what would that do to Baker Basin Road because that'll bring me back he's a big fan of that intersection all the time so so unfamiliar with that was approval of the original ship and the site itself where we were we were the last person that location if you yes is already there wa was already there the TD Bank was supposed to go on that lot never right and so U that we needed we needed some more parking there more Park so we previously you may manware we had some little bit all area parking for for that TD Bank was allowing us to use essentially that parking so by getting control of that entire TD parcel now we can add more parking parking we can also have additional drive-thru Lanes there to help reduce the length D CU so so we can't necessarily affect par in and out of that cent no curb Cuts It's Kind yeah that's kind of fixed yeah but on our site itself we're doing what we can to improve that customer I'm rooting for you and I'm thrilled hopefully you're coming to West Windor that's right um any other questions for okay um do you have anything else we have nothing else okay I'll open it up to the public now to comment on this application please step up to the microphone state your name address for the record and make your comments anybody okay some somebody I see only one public he he's uh more private he's protecting the public okay so um no public comments on this application so I'll any any deliberation I'll make a motion to close public comment okay second okay all in favor say I okay public comments closed any deliberation anybody if not I'll enter if no deliberation or questions or any issues I'll entertain a motion to approve application PB 23-7 with the conditions discussed um exploratory things to be looked at and so on and so forth so J second by thank you Curtis I'd like to second that second by Rob just to say Sam please call the roll for this wait a second wait a minute we we're approving all the uh waivers yes okay I I said conditions condition waivers comments changes that we that were discussed Jerry has taken um great not yes now U all of the conditions are pretty self-explanatory basically laid out in um in Fran's uh memo and then we have the uh the one Memo from the uh from Tim Lynch about the lock box um the one condition uh that sign detail which is point number two in qu's U memo and I've added I've added the following um conditions in addition to the ones that are laid out in those minuts um they'll they'll move the Transformer and HotBox and will work with the township professionals on relocation um which includes part of the four Bank parking spaces it's part of that that move there's a reason we can't do it just to be clear yeah it's exploratory you look see uity company right can it be done thank you right it's not set in stone that they will do that they're GNA explore the possibility of doing we want them to move those four Bank spaces um I thought certainly the advised from quasi was that it was a safe condition the way it was so the board will have to decide that we've identified no other area to put them other than where the Transformer Hots are we can put them there we will if not we're proposed to stay where they are okay okay and again they're banked spots they might not use them may never use them since they're already over the exactly exactly now in terms of the flag um I know the mayor had suggested that the applicant work with uh our landscape architect but they had offer just to illuminate it from the ground seems to me the clearest thing is just to illuminate it from the ground yes okay and that's it thank you okay so we have a motion by go second by Rob to approve with conditions waivers exploratory comments changes mods um please call the roll Sam yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes motion uh application approved thank you thank you very much chairman thank you our next meeting is tentatively April 3D look at that [Music] uh motion to adour second during the meeting what just to let you know how fair I am they turned down my son and I'm so fair okay scaring me that guy is so [Music] that's good night Jerry yeah WEP he w