we have special you're ready okay one [Music] second I'll get you one let me just do this and then go ahead steal the Mayors he's got one okay right welcome okay I call this meeting to order it's the uh business session meeting for March 4th 2024 roll call gaas here Jers here mandal here Weiss here Whitfield here have we been adequately noticed for this meeting yes we were adequately noticed on January 19th 2024 to the times the packet filed in the clerk's office posted in the Township Municipal Building would everybody please rise for the salute to the flag do we have uh no ceremonial matters um this evening so if anyone would like to come up uh and make a public comment you can do so at this time please state your name and address Mr Church uh good evening John church in Princeton Place uh yeah Madame President I would like to expand a little bit on the remarks I made at the council meeting uh last week about the tree ordinance um now uh I did review the Supreme Court decision the New Jersey Supreme Court decision that Mr do rilski talked about in his introduction last last week now what that what the Supreme Court ruled is that towns do have the power to pass a tree ordinance if they want to he didn't the court did not say that they have to they they can do it a lower court had said had ruled against the ordinance but the Supreme Court upheld the right of council to pass an ordinance you you do have that right the question is in each particular case should you pass that particular ordinance and that's a question yet to be answered uh I have looked up some of the uh local towns and what their tree ordinances are if I can briefly go over those uh in East Windsor a homeowner who has less than or equal to one acre of property can remove up to three T Three Trees per year without a permit and the entire chapter doesn't apply there's an exception for a specimen tree a big tree in Lawrence Township there's no restrictions whatsoever no rules at all about tree removal the same thing in Hamilton uh and as we recall uh last year we had this tremendous uh tornado damage along Quaker Bridge Road so I think the township residents will take that into account if they want to consider a tree ordinance in Robinsville there are no tree removal permits required if the property contains a single lot and an owner occupied residential structure and is less than or equal to two acres in size so that's Big Lots going down the list at Plainsboro no permit is required if a mature deciduous tree is less than 50 ft high or a mature coniferous tree is less than 30 ft high but the township should be consulted to verify the the exemption now for tall trees deciduous trees over 50 ft you do need a permit with reason Supply and there a small fee but there's no requirement for Replacements in case you do remove that tree just to feed for the permit now uh the big exception here as you might guess is Princeton uh they're very heavily regulated with trees you know this a it's a destination place with the university a huge history and so forth so they're very careful about their trees so I do understand that most of these other towns I don't have uh the these kinds of situations so that's basically what I wanted to to say this evening and uh we will uh see what you come up with in terms of a suggested ordinance and at that time I might be prepared to make uh some more comments about the trees so thank you for your attention thank you and I will will just say now that um Council will be um further discussing this draft tree removal replacement ordinance under new business later on in this evening Miss Mayers Becky Mart sorry hello Becky marks 28 West mensor Court uh we are here Eileen and I are here tonight to give an accommodation for Allison Miller for her dedicated service on the behalf of the friends of the West Windsor open space as some most of you here know friends of West Windsor open space has been helping the town preserve land since 1996 and Allison has been a strong member and the connection point from group to group for our organization uh she's not here tonight but we hope she's listening we are in our going on our 27th here we just had our Board elections Alison continues to be our president and we are really excited for as much help as we can to continue preserving open space which makes our town so important I'm gonna pass it to eileene who's going to read the commodation thank you let me just have your name and address too Eileen dub 11 Meadow runroad and hi Allison I hope you're watching um whereas the long and intimate relations held with her in the faithful discharge of her duties make it eminently befitting that we record our appreciation for Alison Miller and whereas the wisdom and ability which she exercises in the aid of our organization through service contribution and councel are held in high regard and whereas since the late 1980s she has been active in the larger Community successfully listening to Citizens running for office and winning election elections resulting in many years of service on the West Windsor Township Council and whereas since the early 1990s she has been active in the countywide community with many years of service on the Mercer County Democratic committee and whereas since the late 1990s she has been active in the Statewide Community with many years of service in the Central Jersey Transportation forum and the land use and environment subcommittee of the New Jersey League of municipalities and whereas since 1998 when our organization was founded I'm sorry 1996 when our organization was founded she has been an active member and trustee and whereas since 2022 she has served as the president of our organization and whereas the qualifications that she possesses influence us to testify to our deepest respect for her be it therefore resolved that for Alice and Miller we sincerely State our admiration and gratitude and be it further resolved that we the trustees for the friends of West Windsor open space on behalf of our members do hereby give special recognition to West Windsor Public servant Allison Miller and encourage all citizens of West Windsor on this day of March 4th 2024 to join with us in congratulating Allison on selfless and continuing Public Service achievements within our municipality County and state and be it further resolve that this Commendation is presented to her and that it is also recorded in full in the minutes of our organization and uh we we've got a great group here um well me Eileen dob uh Frank Lavida um and Paul liy couldn't be here tonight Becky Marx you've heard from eileene Murphy um Robert Murray couldn't make it Yan May Wang Mike Shu and bened go so thank you thank you thank you very much and I think everyone up here um knows Allison very well and she's a pillar of our community and she's always there and I have enjoyed knowing her um very well for I guess the past 19 years or so and you we wish her well is anyone else comments Sylvia ascarelli 27 Melville Road and a board member of the West Windsor bicycle and pedestrian Alliance um I won't be able to attend the Community Development portion of Thursday's budget meeting so I came tonight to offer a few comments a little early first of all thank you to the mayor and the administration for the proposed $50,000 uh 50 yeah $50,000 item in the capital Improvement program to do the design work for an extension of the Cranberry Road sidewalk to Rabbit Hill and the trolley Line Trail and I hope Council um sees fit to continue it support for the sidewalk and keeps that line item in there I see so many people on the sections of the sidewalk that you all have um built and extending the sidewalk down to the trolley line will make it possible for more people to reach both the trail and community park on foot or by bike now I realize that construction will take a little longer than the budget period but once completed this will be a huge win for making West Windsor a more walkable Community however I am disappointed that there's not a line item in in the capital Improvement program for rectangular rapid flashing beacons the kind of pedestrian activated blinking yellow lights that we have at the train station and some other places in town as you know the wwpa believes these are effective in alerting drivers to the presence of Walkers or bicyclists wanting to cross the road and in getting most of those drivers to stop the Federal Highway Administration also considers them to be a proven safety measure I did see that the administration is proposing to increase inre the annual crosswalk Improvement program by $50,000 this year to 70,000 and then drop it back down to 20,000 in following years I'm in any details you can offer now on plans for that money I do hope that the money will be for R rfbs particularly for the crosswalk at Rabbit Hill in Bennington the site of a pedestrian fatality a few months ago and at the crosswalk of pen L and Canoe Brook where a pedestrian was struck by a car last year also like to point out that it's where the sidewalk on that side of pen L of pen L ends and students walk into High School South from uh toward Clarksville would then have to cross no later than there um assuming that this extra $50,000 is what the money will be used for I hope you will increase the sidewalk Improvement budget in subsequent years these are not the only places where flashing beacons would make it West Winds are safer for Walkers and for Bic cus I know you've asked engineering and the police to come up with their own list of where those rapid flashing beacons should be and I and look forward to seeing it thank you thank you for the comments we'll take all of that into consideration and budget discussions are um coming up as a beginning later this week so thank you see no one else nobody else would like to make a public comment thank you all right Administration comments yeah sorry I was late uh the couple forgot to bring their papers so got them married hour ago I had to sign the papers so that's why it was late um I I do want to say uh things about Alison Miller I had the pleasure of working with her uh even before I got on the council but more so once I became mayor and she was the council president uh so for two years we spoke almost weekly and she always put um we never uh there were many occasions we never agreed but I always say she put West wiser always first and I really appreciated that she did everything she did was what's best for the township all the time even when we disagreed and um she we always kept each other in a loop and I have nothing but the highest respect for her service to the community she is she's a good friend and I'm I'm happy to know her um and I'm glad you actually read the budget that carefully that you know which line items changed it's a big budget um so we uh the actual cost of building that sidewalk is roughly about 500,000 so the first year we will just design it and then uh depending on the budget and how things shape up we will finish it in either one or two years um there's not a specific line for flashing Beacon doesn't mean that we won't put it up uh just as an example we have a de uh we have a grant for Safe Streets around uh train stations so two beacons are going up one right across dallace and uh Scott Avenue and the second the crosswalk that connects the uh was that development to Acme shopping center so on that road there will be three or four sidewalks and general the philosophy is uh uh the police determine which is either the busiest intersections or the intersection that they have seen they have all the uh uh traffic data over the last several years so they look up at the accident reports they look up at the reports where they have written um uh lots of tickets and that's where the first priority is for all crosswalk improvements uh budget is always a problem I mean as I mentioned at the last time um although the tax increase is zero we have maximized on expenditures so uh if we have to spend more on one line it has to come from some other line so it's now Council job to decide the priorities of where they want to allocate more or where they alloc want to allocate less um when the administration did the budget we did take into account all the feedback we have gotten over the past years and improved line items that we thought needed to be improved and try to maximize it so thank you I just have one announcement uh Public Works resumed yard waste collection today yard waste can be placed at the curb up to one week prior to the start of your collection week crews are collecting in zone one the week of March 4th which began today also please remember to separate your leaves from your brush for collection if you have any questions you can go on to the township website which is the official source for information or you can call public works at 60979 8370 okay thank you council member comments Andrea um I want to thank you for bringing that uh Commendation for Allison to us um I know Allison oh guessing at least 10 years uh I've always respected her greatly she's always very willing to share information to have a discussion on anything uh we don't always agree a lot of times we do agree sometimes she convinces me and possible sometimes I convince her that I'm not sure of um and I really really feel I've learned a lot from her over the years I consider a friend um and um you know I just um I I know she's worked for you know between Council and all the organizations for a number of years and I'm looking forward to continuing to work with her for a number with her for a number of years and um you know that's and and I would consider her you know one of the one of the treasures of of West Windsor somebody who really cares about West Windsor uh that you know that she does doesn't have an agenda other than what she feels is good for the town so thank you for that um I do want to remind everyone that we are now in women's history month and there are a number of events around I think there's some of the various libraries um and to try to take advantage of various displays and events uh available in the area this past week I went to a few um of our uh newer uh businesses was at Rumble boxing for their grand opening event thank you to Martin for letting me know about it um and I wish them well I also enjoyed the newly opened just salad in nassur park and I bought one of their renewable bowls and I now keep it in my car so I'm ready to eat um whenever I'm around that area uh I went with a group of friends and they really um they really all enjoyed it and U you know I think people will be coming back back um and um congratulations to one of the robotics teams in town that put on a stem Expo this Saturday um I went around to talk to the various kids it's a it was a great way to spend a rainy day and um it's I'm always a kid in a candy store talking to kids and looking at science projects so um I really enjoyed it and that's it thanks Martin yes thank you madam president I'm living here for 18 years um for those who know me obviously I'm really big and huge on contributions to a community and contributions specifically to West Wier Township and so you know being here tonight and the Commendation for Allison Miller and knowing Allison for many many years uh I have so much respect for her and I hope that she is listening um because I have so much respect for just her selflessness um sometimes people don't really realize how big it is or how how important it is and really big in in terms terms of deliverables to be able to do something for others and and to do something for your community and the residents and you know putting any affiliations uh aside you know Allison has always been about West Windsor so um to my Council colleague and to the mayor uh I just want to reiterate you know our thanks to Allison for the work that she's done the contributions that she has made um because a community doesn't matter whether elected official or not a community really exists um in the productivity of a community really is based on the residents and and the and those who live here and anyone who is elected or not and contributes for many many many years I will always give so much credit to that person um just just because they care about others and I think that's what we need to move more towards um the care for others um without any awards or any any pats on the back but just really wanting to do what's best for your Township and Allison has always been about that so I just respect her and just wanted to um um give her some uh reverence and respect on this evening so thank you so very much for coming out doing this thank you thank you Sonia well thank you f for the accommodation for um Allison Miller my first introduction to Allison Miller was 15 years ago um when we I joined the walk to Farmers Market on the first day of forers Market um we walked from moris Hawk to to the market and I had my baby in the stroller my my first one born in the stroller and then soon after buil a relationship with her um when uh during my time on um best Wier um bicycle and B Alliance as a trustee and I've known her since so 15 years um I I'm a big promo proponent of um you know community building and um giving back to your community and Allison is uh is um you know again as a she's a pillar of this community and I've really enjoyed talking to her known her um you know she has always given me advice so thank you for doing that and um I really wish her well um during her um you know uh walk of um this this life right now this phase that she's going through I'm going through a very similar phase myself so I can understand um you know we are at different stages but we are pretty much in the same phase of of life right now um with our health so I wish her well I hope she's watching um and um that's it um mayor I just have a question on um the crosswalks on Rabbit Hill Road we were supposed to put some signage for that do we have any timeline on that I don't know when they'll go up I'll check thank you good Dan thank you um again for your comments and the commendation for Alison I think I met Allison for the first time in the early 1990s when I first moved here and when she was camping my neighborhood um I don't even remember what the topic was she was probably running for something but um I've known her since then in a lot of different capacities and um she's always been uh very kind and warm and helpful to me um including advice to get me where I am sitting here today so I hope you're listening Al and we do do wish you the best um and thank you everybody for comments in General John comments about um the tree ordance and Sylvia about various issues to the uh interest of the bicycle and pedestrian folks I think it's really important and it's really great to see people share their perspectives and Views it's something that I would like to see more of um in general I think we we try our best to invite people to make comments here but at the same time this is sort of a limited time period um and I know both um Sonia and Andrea have gone out to the community and and invited people to talk to to you during various making yourself available sort of like a open Office hours um and so I'm I'm going to be doing the same thing um sort of like open Office hours I'm I'm G to Brand my my model is called dialogues with Dan and try to come up with something a little catchy and I'm going to make a commitment to be available at least on a monthly basis and um to have people again no specific agenda but just to be available to hear people's comments and perspectives and thoughts and ideas so that we can collaborate um on how do we continue to improve the quality of life in in this town so the my first um first session will be on Saturday the 16th of March I'm going to hold it at just salad so so um I was there a couple weeks ago really wonderful um sort of casual comfort food um so we'll I'll be there from 11: am to 1M on the 16th and then I'll try to do this on a monthly basis and even more frequently if the demand uh presents itself so hope to see see you and your colleagues and friends come say Hello thank Youk thank you thank you and again I appreciate everything that Allison has done with this community have served together over the years on and off on the affordable housing committee um the planning board certainly we've had a lot of discussions about that uh Council we we did serve together for a bit on Council so uh I just truly truly appreciated everything um that she has done uh for me and for this Township and I we all wish her wish her well with her recovery and we're praying that everything turns out okay in the end so Allison if you're listening we're we're with you we're thinking about you and uh we send our prayers um this Thursday March uh 7th at 10:00 a.m. the council will begin its 2024 budget uh discussions there will be opening remarks on the budget from the Chief Financial Officer followed by presentations and discussion with the dep the department heads from the Department of Health and Human Services the department of administration clerk's office and the department of Community Development the budget meetings are open to the public uh they're recorded Live on YouTube and rebroadcast and public comment is taken at the end of the meeting budget materials are now posted on the Township's web page uh for those of you who go to the senior center um we're they're getting a new a new professional coffee maker it's on the on the bills and claims list for today so I assume assume that's going to get passed but uh so uh just just uh en enjoy it because I know uh everyone loves the senior center but a good cup of coffee is kind of nice too uh let's see and happy St Patrick's Day uh which occurs on March 17th and happy holy uh on March 25th okay um any any update from the clerk's office G no ma'am no okay so we have no public hearings so we'll move on to the consent agenda it's bills and claims okay so does anyone need anything pulled from the consent agenda no okay seeing none um a motion to approve the consent agenda so moved second roll call vote Bas yes Mandel yes Weiss yes Whitfield yes Jers yes motion approved recommendations from the administration 2024 r79 authorizing the mayor and clerk to execute a Professional Services agreement with spel Architectural Group in to provide architectural services for the West Windsor Arts Center Mobility lift replacement project 6,200 2024 r0 80 authorizing the mayor and clerk to execute a Professional Services agreement with akf Engineers LLP to provide professional consulting services for the Princeton Junction Volunteer Fire Station fire suppression sprinkler system for $845 2024 r81 authorizing the business administrator to purchase one 2023 Chevy Trailblazer all-wheel drive vehicle for the division of Code Enforcement from ma Chevrolet under New Jersey state contract 23 24-11 for $ 24,95 7.75 2024 r82 authorizing the business administrator to purchase one 2024 Chevy Equinox all-wheel drive vehicle for the division of Code Enforcement from Mall Chevrolet under New Jersey state contract 2023 -11 for $ 28,1 19.25 and 2024 r83 authorizing the utilization of rock salt bid with Mercer County cooperative contract purchasing system ck9 Mercer 20235 with Morton salt Inc for the Department of Public Works for the calendars years 2024 and 2025 for $160,000 okay does anyone need any resolutions um pulled okay seeing none um and I have a motion to approve 2024 d79 through 2024 r83 so move second roll call Vote gwas Yes mandal Yes Weiss yes Whitfield yes Jers yes motion approved okay we have no introduction of ordinances tonight this is the second opportunity for public comment so if you'd like to make a comment please come to the microphone and state your name and address thank you John church again 11 Princeton Place I've known Allison for a very long time she's a neighbor not too far away I remember the first time one of the first times I met her she was doing a neighborhood canvas about the Toll Brothers case and she had very strong opinions about Toll Brothers and Al so we shared uh views and so forth I've I've seen her sometimes uh walking when I take bike rides around the neighborhood a very valued friend longtime friend and uh we wish her all the best thank you thank you anyone else okay seeing none we'll move on all right on the council reports discussion new business um why don't we start by by um picking up the discussion from from the last um meeting last week on the draft New Jersey D Tree Removal replacement ordinance so we did receive um some new information from uh from the mayor and I thought maybe we could go through these Pages just to kind of go over what we received you can sit down I'm going to sit there so I can that's fine yeah Mike can you move the May the mic to for the mayor he's going to come sit by you right in front of you oh you gonna use that one that one thank you so I mean I received questions from uh several council members and I try to answer as many of them as possible again as I said the a is to do what's required by the law but not be over honorous to the uh to the residents of the township uh we don't have too big a problem with this because we don't have too many Lots with lots of trees around and as my email indicated there are a few Lots about 50 or 60 with lot of trees and that have been protected by the conservation easement that planning boards put in many many years ago uh when those lots were developed um that's where the 25 ft is coming about now Dan had modified the and all of you had seen the uh modifications he had done based on your input from last meeting but if you have more input what I suggest is you uh we talk about it alkal all the inputs work with Dan and send you a draft ordinance uh sometime next week now I understand uh there's some seminars that the state is doing in coming weeks if you learn something uh that will help it simplify it I'll be all open to uh implementing that but right now we have come up with an ordinance that we feel is the uh is it takes care of the state requirement to have an ordinance and at the same time not be too honorous to the uh to the township residents right and you mentioned that uh let's see so it's going to be a zoom meeting and that meeting um let's see it's the New Jersey shade tree uh Federation that that was um announced at the last shade tree commission about this and then I had Dan send it to all of us in case any of you are are interested because there's three me meetings different topics on all this as everyone is trying to I guess work through it and understand it more the last meeting is is in April um even though the D's deadline is May 1 yeah I mean as you said yourself when we spoke the timing don't make sense they can't count time and how long it takes to for the ordinance to take effect uh so if you get a chance make a point that uh they should at least move the timeline back so whatever you learn at these meetings you have time to implement them implement it right right well the meeting the the um seminar that yeah there's one tomorrow but I think that one's a more general meeting and the one that's actually going to be discussing what you can put in this ordinance uh is one of the later meetings so um that that one I think will be key to you know what what we think we need to put and what we think we don't need to put so if we would have a chance to listen to that or in person or if there's a recording after whatever um that would be um that would be good making any final decisions right right so what mayor you had sent us there was an attachment with like I guess four pages and there's some changes on there to the mic oh I'm sorry yeah you had sent us a an attachment with like four pages of some some change are in there so I thought maybe we could um just discuss some of those things uh on the second page that you had on the second page that you had sent us there do you want to go through the ordinance and tell the section that's easier to just Mark what you need changes you mean you want to go through through the whole ordinance is that no no whatever changes I don't want to read the whole ordinance oh no I you wer I'm not reading it I I just want to go over there were some Redline um tracking changes that we receiv received so we we might as well just talk about that quick you know right now okay somewhere very easy um for example it says U is dead dying severely declining Andor severely damaged and you we added wording or you added wording Dan uh States the new wording including severely storm damaged entry trees fell by natural causes so um does anyone take issue with with that no that makes sense the clarification no that makes sense okay so that one's okay then the next page of the attachment that you sent um under a first first paragraph there uh the new tracking chain says a tree removal permit application and fee may be required for these trees to justify and record the exemption um the use the word may is it may may be required is it shall be required because because to me ordinance work that that can cause confusion what what is the directive if you want people to do something require something you say shall see the the way I see it is this ordinance is not going to set the fee schedule the fee schedule will be set by a different ordinance that that has our fee schedule so when you change that ordinance you may have a fee schedule with a fee of zero uh so I mean if you want shell I shall I'll make it a shell and zero is still a shell I will assume or make it $1 just nominal the ordinance itself actually uses the word shall earlier in the ordinance as saying something that must be done there's a definition earlier in the ordinance not I will I will Melle I don't have any objection I I think besides the whole fee issue um it says a tree removal permit application so it's permit so so that there's not confusion in the public no matter what happens whether you're taking down let's say a healthy tree because you want to put on an addition to your house or you want to put on a deck whatever and so it's required to get a permit and you would also have to replace that tree somewhere else on your property or it might want wind up on someone else's property or Township property whatever but if it's a a dangerous tree and there's a definition of what dangerous tree means and and part of it's a dead tree a dying tree a disease tree there's a whole um bunch of um you know Clauses that that Define what a dangerous tree is so is it is a permit required for that too or is that optional from the state's recommendation want CL so people know is it no matter what happens if A3 comes down that you you have to get a permit I just think that the clarity needs to be there see I this a different section this particular section only refers to the trees that are not Exempted um it refers to the um and I think what Lund is talking about comes later well we'll talk about that later too yeah so but this particular section the way it's red is the one where these are for one of a better word non- dangerous trees these are trees that um would not be replaced under would have to be replaced at some point so even if you're in the first three trees there's still a requirement to keep track of those three trees because when you get to the fourth tree you will have to replace it so um that's that's just what this section of the ordinance is about it's not it's not talking dangerous trees yeah right okay so that word may be required so so this is Michelle yeah Madam president can I just have Mike clarify the shell in the May so we understand we're using the right ones in the right places because that's going to be if you use shell where we should be using May because we're giving it an there's an option which could be the cost as well like the mayor's saying then I just want to make sure that everyone un understands the differences so we're not going back six months I won't be here but six months from now redoing an ordinance because there are significant costs when we cify all of these ordinances between L um advertising the legal advertising requirements the review by the attorneys whoever they are and the codification itself so I just want to make sure requir whose discretion would it be would it be the to so if we put shell in there the administrative officer can say hey I don't need a permit for this no shell means he has to if we put May then the administrative officer can say we don't need a permit for a specific case is that what your or whatever case they particular don't want to take a permit for that's why it's at their discretion yeah so that's their job so we're so we're so we're not insisting on a permit we're saying it's up to that I think you need I think everybody needs to fill out a permit and I think the fee schedule is where we have the variability of whether yeah the the discretion is on the fee schedule I think the permit is required for tracking purposes as you said if you know because we say three are sort of free the four one well how do you know the first three were free if you didn't fill out a per but it keeps it keeps track of the it keeps track of all of them and that way we have some backup for it so this would seem to be something that we would want to require and obviously the fee schedule could be zero if or in this particular case it is something that requires work on the town's part we probably have to go out and uh you know see what the tree was like or see what see if uh when they're rep plant I mean there's two parts to this one this one has part one which is yes you can uh take the tree down but part two is you have to put another tree back up and then I think there's something like a two-year period where we have to make sure that if you put a tree back up you don't on purpose or not kill it that you put it up and that with the idea that it's going to actually stay as a tree and it's going to be a good tree so um you know I don't I don't have a problem with this being mandatory if we want to just um if if you just want to put a May in here and that becomes some kind of discretion later on I mean I could see that happen too I think the idea is for the intent is to track the the removal of trees if that's the in intent that we have to have some sort of reporting and we are using the permit application as a form of reporting now fees would could be an exempt based on that's what my understanding is they're not part of the separ there's a separate ordinance for fees that we probably have to we probably have to modify that once we do that so I think that the language should be shall because we shall get a permit for every and in under um you know section 17.1 we're saying that sh means that we have to do it that's you know it's defined right in that ordinance all right so that may council's recommendation would be to make it a sh this is where we started which is pretty much what we're gonna do anyway but this way we've codified it okay so we will move down to H on that page H you know uh says dangerous trees shall not be counted in the determination of exemptions under Section 17.4 yeah can I just make a correction to that there yeah that's one three as you said yeah okay so so you see you saw that correction you'll make that yeah it was offline it was offline okay and May and maybe what is the change I'm sorry it says 17.4 pointa and from what I can tell I think what they really meant was 17.3 point a there is no um there is no 17.4.55 without incurring any tree removal application fee um above it that we were just talking about in a on that same page that we called it a tree removal permit application so should just be a tree removal permit application fee just to be consistent okay yes this is written a little well I'm just I'm just saying later on there's like a choice in here and that's where right right okay yeah and then replacement tree planting or or replacement tree additional fee requirement pursuant to sections 17.2 B and C respectively now the the new other new wording here I'll read it uh any trees located within 25 ft of a residential structure princess's home and garage on residential property with one single family or two family dwelling will be considered a dangerous tree trees uh written justification by a licens tree expert as described in section 17.1 Point e dangerous tree trees or a tree removal permit application must be submitted to the township to justify and record the removal of dangerous trees okay so this um let's let's take it apart a little bit so any trees located within 25 ft of a residential structure home and garage on residential property with one single family or two family dwelling will be considered a dangerous tree um so that would mean at any point on your house as I told you that that is to make everybody consistent there are 50 60 houses in town that have that provision that anything within 25 ft if you're if there's a tree near 25 ft and you feel like if it dies or if it falls on your house and if it's dying then you may want to take it down so that's where it comes from that conservation easement part of that's already in our uh that's already in our code so do we I mean do we want to just say that homes that are that have a conservation easement they're already covered they're already covered this they are already covered this gives the same this gives the same uh feature to you as a homeowner since your house is not in conservation is and it puts you on the same uh same playing field with them that's where the 25 ft number number of you ask me where that's coming from so we're but we're putting those trees whether they're healthy or not into a dangerous category I mean even if they're healthy still need a written justification from a licensed re expert if it's if it's danger to your house if you think it's too close to the house for example or a licensed tree expert um confirms that it's too dangerous because it's too close to the house in a storm it falls on your roof then or whatever right no no that's not the way it's written it says it's written here that if any tree is within 25 feet of any point on the house or garage it there's a Assumption of it being a dangerous tree it doesn't need anybody the way I understand that it doesn't need anybody to come out and say hey this is within dangerous that 25 feet is 25 feet you still need to uh submit a right like a description right so it's a now it doesn't say whether that's I guess that's the closest point on the tree and and I assume Dan feels that this is okay with d the whole point of this is so that it's an exemption from the account it's totally it's not about whether it should or shouldn't come down because that's the property owner decision it's a matter of does it then qualify for an exemption so any dangerous tree qualifies for an exemption but this is this one has an assumption of dangerous without looking at the tree itself it could be a little the definition right sorry 25 so why wouldn't this be under the definitions of dangerous trees why not just keep them all in one spot we have a whole page of definitions of dangerous trees it's a it's a through e or F or something like that it says a tree that's sick a tree that's dying a tree that might might create a problem but this exempts this is just for that treade that the ones that are in that 25 why why list when we list dangerous trees why don't we just put under that list the 25 feet with everything else two two anwers I can think of one answer is you can write ordinance five different ways I mean there's no one right way go wrong way and the dangerous tree in that section is dangerous trees as applicable anywhere in New Jersey this 25 ft is West wi specific definition of a dangerous tree okay lawence or east wi they won't may not consider that a dangerous so the other the other ones are from the model ordinance and this one we and we're allowed to add that in dance and I assume so okay yeah um like I I think like I had I I I was the one who had raised that question where did we get this 25 ft number and I think it's um as mayor answered is to be consistent with the con conservation easement that some of the properties have which is 25 ft so this one puts everybody in that same gives the same option to every every property owner it's a it's basically a a benchmark right so you can put it in either section doesn't change doesn't it's just this one's a little confused to read um all right so then in the way this is written right now it basically is an either or it says okay you can get an opinion and a written opinion or do a tree removal permit application so is that's that's the way this is written right now again I said the way this is written right now it says uh and I think it leaves out the trees in the 25 ft so it sound it sounds like you don't have to do anything within 25 ft then it says written justification by a licensed tree expert as described in section 171e dangerous trees that you can have written justification that's one way of being able to remove the tree and then I'm just saying what's what's written here I'm not arguing anything or I think that's not correct I'm sorry it's not justification to remove it it's justification to classify it as dangerous so it's part of the exemption right uh well it's already class okay it's classified but it says orry removal permit applications what's the or for what's on the other side of or that well be I'm saying the way this is I I do it is a bit confusing I have a feeling it was kind of like done what she's saying is either you can get expert to say it's a dangerous tree or you just feel a permit application and make that case yourself that it's a dangerous tree simply because it's within 25 ft of your garage or your home or or any of the other definitions of dangerous tree or no it's not just the 25 feet it's the it's any any goal of that is to say I'm gonna take a tree down and it's gonna be exempt from my quot right there a lot of effort exemp my quot because I'm classifying as a dangerous tree here the qualifications for what a dangerous tree could be we have section at the beginning that listed from the model now we're saying also it could be 25 ft to the house that also is dangerous and now I think I interpret it as there's a third option um if a if a licensed tree expert um no describes it as a danger tree for whatever their professional opinion no it basically says written justification by a licensed tree expert as described in section 171e which is under our definition of dangerous trees so that means that means a license expert has to come and say that it falls under 17 the intent of that to be able to validate whether it's a dangerous tree or not who makes that decision well this is it the township Administration that makes the decision or the person who or is it the tree expert that's making that hopefully it's a tree expert somewhere uh well the first in the first part it says it's a it's it would be the expert and presumably you're having this expert take even if you're putting a permit in you might you know say hey such and such an expert is the terine and that's my reasoning and then the town could look at that and could either say I'm going to come and check or they could say well this person has a license and they don't want to risk their license I mean I assume that's a choice that the reviewer would make so the question is just talking about the way this is written and we all have a different interpretation and we've all been reading it for for a week now so that's s it says to me maybe we need to make this a little um easier to understand that 25 ft issue should that be made like number six under dangerous tree definition I think we want to keep it there you don't keep it question now is the notion of do or that could be just listed here so it's obvious instead of sort of throwing that that last statement about requiring a expert to make a statement is is confusing because is that required or is that just a nice to have it sounded to me like that was a choice what like either get an expert or put in a permit in the town will make that that's way I understood this from logically laying it out so so maybe we need this I maybe we need to decide what kind of are looking for and then have somebody write it I will I will get it simplified and ritten so and maybe list out that 25 fets with a little more obvious somehow or something like that too or um so at this point we're saying that these are all going to come under permits no matter what type whether it's a tree that we know that if you do the fourth tree it's going to be required and we want to follow it or if it's a tree that once you take it down it doesn't really matter because it was a dangerous tree and we're not we have whe whether we like it or not there's no requirement for replacement of it correct so well not not of a dangerous tree you know under the definition you don't have to replace a dangerous tree what I'm remove there's two types of trees you to get closer um okay so does this ordinance say the dangerous tree is is removed um that you have to get a permit I maybe it was an emergency and you had to get it done right away but then do you still have to go to the township and get and get the permit is for everything all right so I just want to make sure that ordinance that that that that is clear yeah right I'll just I I I I think the word permit is throwing many office because we are using the permit application in many of the cases to for tracking purposes only um IDE is that can't process but there but there are sometimes when the tree has come down let's say in a storm okay I'm just saying do all kinds of project know they have to get a permit though nobody's going to put you in jail if you cut a tree down cases where people deliberately take trees down and realize oops I didn't get the permit and have to go back and get the permit afterwards I mean those are all valid cases but the point being is that we want the per nobody's putting anybody in jail for a tree down don't call the Sierra CP right and I just wanted to be clear in the orance T somebody takes down a 100 trees or something that they're not supposed I I may start thinking about that people do all kinds of things over last 18 years cutting a tree is the least of the issues so Madam president just remember that when we live through Sandy there were a lot of things that the council at the time waved the fees because of the situation and I am sure that the councils and the Mayors after all of us are gone will do the same for the community because that's what you do when there's a an emergent situation so we did do that for a lot of things during Sandy and even with that the tornado that went through there were a lot of things done by the township that normally wouldn't have been done with our Public Works and everybody else to get these things open and clear so I think that stuff is will always happen it will be fixed and done yeah so I just wanted to remind because not everybody sat on this Council back then I think Linda you were here oh I'm here you well I know I was but I was here for the tornado because my y yeah but no we're talking Sandy Sandy was about 12 years ago so I just here know yeah we were here thanks M Mr Church you remember that some of those things I hoping that my flight takes off so I can go pick up my daughter but I just wanted to of that that that is an option that doesn't have to be in an ordinance that is your your prerogative along with the mayor asking you if if he so he or she so chooses okay just a reminder that right it has been done more than once good so um all right good so we'll it'll be clear to everyone that no matter what happens you have to get the application have to fill it out no matter what will be Rewritten so that's clear to everybody because there seems to be all I will I will get it clear so that I can understand it and explain to you so I'll write then if you need to explain to me it's a it's a problem okay we look forward to the next draft progress um any any other comments we're done with this conversation then yes any anything further there's one yeah yeah there's one more since you're going through the red line meaning there's one more one 17.5 on page page four four or page n whichever way you see it that reporting that was on the reporting annual basis that's fine yeah I don't think we going to collect a lot of money so I I'd like for the council to get that report too so yeah yeah I'll change that I'll change that that reporting can happen during the budget session or will that reporting happen that's what the mayor whatever works do give it to us anytime yeah I it's okay and we're okay with closing comment would be which I wrote to you directly the implementation of this should be with minimum amount of friction make it as easy as possible for absolutely simple not like download stuff fill stuff out facts it PR just something simple online and I'd also suggest that again more thought about the the fee exemptions you could tie if you're being exempt for whatever reason dangerous tree it's a your limit maybe there should be no fees for anything that's exempt um so that so we don't create this perception that we're nickling and diming people for $25 for when we update the fee schedule ordinance we could we could add the exemption there yeah yeah we look when we get to that point yeah I'll be happy to we get that once we I can't do the fees till you get this done right just letting you know and we'll see because you always remember there's staff time involved in this so lots and lots of St time a lot of what we do so that's another discussion okay all right so um and and you were going to we were going to be checking to see what the what the uh shade what's the name of that commission no no the New Jersey sh Federation right to see whether or not certain things are actually required in this ordinance and then we could always so my understanding is we have to pass this ordinance by May 1 but that that presentation is not happening until April the dates don't work out you know you never know maybe the DP will change that date I I don't know because after even after ordinance has passed if we make that deadline then the DP still has to review it they could say looks wonderful or maybe they would that's question is what's the consequence if we miss the date right exactly uh they're backlogged I would say yeah I mean if you're missing it by a few months that's one thing if you're doing it because you're trying to get clarification I mean I think they didn't come out with their model ordinance till November so they weren't giving and they're giving a lot of time for people to do this so um so if with if they do come back and say oh you don't have to keep track of how many or something we may decide there an easier way to do this Wonder yeah okay all right let's do um Council Council Bless bless you Council reports um Maron I do not have a council report uh this evening uh planning board will be meeting Wednesday in two days at 6:30 pm Sona chickf chickf Yes actually yeah he knows how much I like Chick-fil-A so Chick-fil-A will be uh discussion for me but and on the agenda for Wednesday evening yeah no no no border committee meetings have happened since last Monday uh Parks and Rec meets um on Wednesday later this week and also meets [Music] later Mr show it oh it was always May 1 it was always what what are you talking about wasn't it always first yeah we know it was it is May first that was an extension to make it May 1 yep oh that's EXT interesting I thought I remember March first at one point and then all of a sudden there was a May okay um all right uh affordable housing and environmental commission hasn't met the last week so I don't have a report okay come on Linda make it five out of five well it's not g to be you wanted shorter meetings come on because the sh tree commission met on February 28th uh the Arbor Day celebration is April 20th at 9:30 a.m. at the Ronald R Rogers Arboretum if it rains the Arbor Day ceremony will be held in the senior center uh the commission continued to work on the details of this event uh landscape architect and advisor Dan Dober milsky informed the commission that the mayor and administration are now uh reviewing the revised chapter 173 ordinance which was sent to them from the commission after its last meeting in January uh on March 5th which is tomorrow the New Jersey shade tree Federation will hold a zoom meeting regarding NJ dp's newly proposed tree removal replacement requirements and I have signed up for that I believe Andre you have two I don't know if anyone too okay uh and lastly the commission chair Helen Rankin is scheduled to give Council the commission's 20123 annual report at the March 26th meeting uh the committee would also like to receive an update on the replacement for um you know the work being done um by our landscape architect Dan Dober milski um and is it a full replacement of what he's currently doing or would things change so they just wanted to get an update um and Dan is retiring as I I think I said at the last meeting and um the only thing that I could tell them is that um the administration is working on this so there's any any new update mayor on that um just let all of us know and the shade tree commission too that's it right okay um let's see Administration updates nothing okay do we need a Clos session no motion to adjourn salute second all in favor this meeting is adjourned thank you so much