okay testing okay okay we are resuming the budget meeting number two March 19th 24 we had technical difficulties but we are back online as of 10:59 a.m. okay we are resuming the budget meeting number two oh hold on March 19th 2024 we had technical difficulties but we are back online as of 10:59 a.m. okay we are resuming the budget meeting number two March 19th 2024 we had technical difficulties but we are back online as 105 okay we are resing number March 19th 20124 we had technical difficulties number 19 2024 we had technical difficulty March 19th 2024 we had technical difficulties this is a test to see if the technology is working [Music] properly I think I think it worked good okay all right you you are done did that repeat care repeat okay can we get Sonia on if she has any Sonia if you have any questions please ask them now okay I'm here is this live can you hear me Sonia try again if you have any questions for Ken Jacobs uh no at this point I don't I think all the questions were picked up was that a thumbs up I can't dance but just just pretend that I'm dancing yeah we we can hear you thumbs thumbs up we can hear you any other council members have any questions Ken is there anything further in the presentation that's it okay thank you thank you very much appreciate it all right thanks for your patience [Music] so we're going to go uh to the Department of Public Safety and we'll do Department of Public Works later John is that correct correct on the agenda yeah we're just GNA switch the order bit well this I have open okay okay you go to the um budget summary page four and introduce yourself sure all right good morning everybody uh my name is Tim Lynch I'm the chief of fire and Emergency Services the Fire Marshall and the Emergency Management coordinator for West Windsor I'm here today in the budget hearing to represent fire and Emergency servic mergen Management fire Marshall's office and I also uh basically financially represent the Volunteer Fire companies in front of council for the budget purposes so um yeah I think we'll get into it um for the operating account uh we start with there's a supplemental fire service program this was a program through the state we get money from the state to distribute to the volunteer fire companies it's been the same it changes a little bit every year um but that's that first 1051 12200 next uh the fire code uh 10513 that's the fire Marshall's office there's a few changes proposed in that um the cost of our licensing and certification has gone up through the state so we have to provide those licenses to all of our inspectors the uh next thing the the largest increase requested on there is under the tech uh special supplies we are looking at a new software system that would incorporate both Volunteer Fire companies into our Reporting System it also manages our uniform fire code inspections and the cost of that software is much higher than our existing software is let bring that'll bring the volunteers in with everybody and it'll be one system at that point it would be one system we we were given a letter by the state in 2021 that we had to consolidate our reporting under one number historically we had done three numbers one for both fire companies each had their own number and the township had a separate one the state and the US fire Administration asked us to consolidate in 2021 um the at the time the position from the fire companies was that they were not interested in doing so uh they have since indicated they would be willing to do so if the town purchased a software system that also applied to them so that's what this request reflects and will that bring us in compliance with the eventually okay we need to show three years of data in order to meet our requirements so theoretically um right now we apply every year for federal grants that we are not eligible for because we are not compliant with the reporting requirement my hope is that if we can show a year of compliance that they would reexamine our eligibility for federal grants but when I submit the grants I have to show three years of d uh reporting data so I don't know it might take three years from now for us to be eligible and that's the part in the report where you said we didn't get certain grants correct yeah we we lost out on almost a million dollars in Grant last year because we are not compliant with reporting requirements we'll try to put in and hope that there I put in every year but we get nothing thank you yep yeah so so believe the reason for that is that we need three years data uh no the reason for that is because we are not compliant right now whether or not in the future we'll be compliant after a year of reporting or three years I don't know because in the Grant application where required to show three years of reporting data and we're not showing three years correct correct so once we show three years then now then it's an evaluation whether the data supports the Grant and we can't even get to the point of correct that without three years of data correct so we need to buy the software and then start on the three there's no there's no alternative way of getting that data uh internally there is but the problem is the US fire Administration doesn't care what we do internally our numbers have to match their system and right now they don't because we do not report the way they've asked us to so my hope is that if I can show a year of us matching their numbers that we would proceed through that process of the Grant application into the actual evaluation of our necessity so that's not guaranteed no no and ises this cost this year a one-time cost for this additional software no that's an annual cost yeah a licensing fee we can expect to see that on correct yes all right uh sorry anything else on the fire code um the um the vehicle repair seems to that's in the next uh Emergency Services account don't get to that so yeah okay so moving on to the emergency services account you'll see there's increases in almost every account on there um Communications equipment it B basically the the majority of these boil down to the cost of the products that we need has risen further than our annual growth in these programs so um you know for example the radio batteries are going up by about 10% twice a year so uh we we need more money in order to buy radio batteries that have to be replaced every two years and that that's what that the communication equipment account encompasses um move moving down conferences and seminars again all the costs have gone up the uh mov down yeah the apparatus repair Council may remember at the end of last year the township had to do an emergency appropriation to emergency services for $70,000 to help usor it wasn't an emergency it was just a budget transfer uh we were able to um find money in another account and we did a transfer in January of this year for the prior years so we could uh pay some major repair bills that came through our Fleet is aging sound like Sony a question Sonia did you have a question no I'm good okay um yeah the our Fleet is aging and the cost of repairs is going up so those are two uh variables that are not playing in our favor that the the fleet needs more maintenance and the cost of maintenance has increased substantially so um working with the CFO I put in for a a a large increase to the vehicle repair budget so that we could hopefully stay within our budget this year and not need another appropriation or another transfer we've needed to transfer to of the last three years in order to cover apparatus maintenance repair costs so that that seems to go all over is it like something bad happens to a car and into a couple of vehicles and that's the bad year correct we have almost 30 vehicles in the fleet so you know one bad thing happens to one truck and the example I'll use is engine 44 one of the apparatuses assigned to princeon Junction Fire Company needed a new uh engine in 2021 and it was a $35,000 repair you know so those things are very difficult to plan for we have no idea when a a motor is just going to fail and uh you know that that ate up nearly half of our apparatus repair budget that year and of course it happened in Octo October when we had already spent all of our money so um hopefully with with this increase in appropriation we won't need to come back for a transfer through Council again that's the goal um in in terms of uniforms um are all the firefighters fire police uniforms covered under this budget or how's it work no we we do not provide any uniforms to either Volunteer Fire Company and the career staff doesn't have fireplace this only covers the full-time career personnel their uniform requirements oh sure yeah this is for like what I'm wearing right now so all the career staff contractually we're obligated to provide them with a Fire protective Ensemble so they were no Mex gear or no Mech uniforms that goes under their protective equipment that only applies to the career staff under the capital budget we have a separate item for personal protective equipment for things like firefighting turnout gear um dry suits and water res gear we use it for ballistic protection for our response task force all of that is covered under the capital budget so we can go into that but and 75 thou $75,000 that you give each Volunteer Fire Company they would have to pay you know for their own uniforms Replacements and all of that correct I did notice that that's been flat the last three years 75 7 we had an increase in Staffing at the end of last year and and also the cost of the uniforms has gone up so we we actively every year solicit quotes from different uniform vendors to try and you know maximize the money that budget can go through but uh we're just not not able to supply the uniforms anymore right but the fact that it's been flat but costs have gone up Reon are you referring to the donations to the Princeton Fire Company okay um by Statue that's the max number as of two or three years ago but there is a kicker that comes out in July so it should go up a little bit like they they do a inflation adjustment every two years so once that comes out then we can increase that for next year's budget yeah sorry I thought you were still talking I think that 75,000 we had increased in 21 if I we did it was 55 then we went to 60 then we went to 75 yeah I see the trend but it's been flat for now four years in a row which we know exp that's the maximum we we we had been like three or four years ago well below what the M what the M we were allowed and then the council decided to to increase that and make it up to the maximum a couple years ago and that's what we've been doing yeah so that probably be going up next year next year um and I think the last major increase is under tires and tubes and um essentially the the amount the 3,000 that was previously budgeted won't buy a set of tires for any vehicles that we own so that had to increase I don't think that would buy them for my car yeah it for one of the fire apparatus and set of tires is somewhere between six and $8,000 depending on the truck and uh unfortunately the the tires on the fire apparatus are only seven years from the data manufacturer so we have to change them out regularly any other questions for OE then we can move along to the capital which if you go to the tab for Public Safety page 61 and we'll discuss the 24 items 61 uh the first program this is for replacement of automatic external defibrillators or aeds last year the council budgeted $75,000 and fire and Emergency Services took over the purchase maintenance and repair of all of the ads in town we provideed a for all of the lobbies in the public buildings the Police Department fire Emergency Services Public Works everybody who has aeds goes through us there were a couple benefits that program the uh the length of the supplies is longer now and I can remotely monitor the status of the aeds so we don't have to physically go around and check them anymore uh this is a continuation of that project to keep a replacement of aeds on an annual rotating basis about how many do we have you know uh about 30 I think think we were able to get 28 or 29 on the last year's and the goal is to try and replace basically one or two every year and this leaves us some money for you know if we have to replace a cabinet on the wall where the ads are hung or things like that this would give us the money to do that does the Arts Center have one not currently not a Township provided one Chief Lynch do we do we have ads at the volunteer fire companies uh yes all that all the ads they previously had were owned by the fire company and are being phased out for various reasons um they are in this replacement plan they both currently have one of the stock that was by last bought last year and we are rotating more of our existing Fleet of aeds through the volunteer fire companies they only have one each they currently only have one each I mean should there be one on every fire truck or the the big fire trucks or that's the goal but you know we got to get there we have to own enough to get there first well would you need more money for that or I mean that that's what this is for it it the plan is we don't want to buy all of them at one time because then in years to come we'll have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars So the plan is we'll buy a few every year and extend them through the fleet as as we go yeah I just just want to make sure current needs I mean that's up to the council if we want we could budget more money and see my question would be the 10,000 that's um mentioned for 24 how many ads do we get in in that it depends on what we have to buy with them but it could be up to four um depends on the type that they are and what the in the end use is because that there's a difference in the aeds between the ones that are provided in public buildings and those that go in our apparatus and the cost is different so uh up to four up to four thank you and you're maintaining the ones that are in the on the buildings the ones in the hall correct we will be and the portable yes Y and this is just the replacement this isn't buying new pads and all that other stuff no that comes out of the our operating budget did you say the art center it does not have one as far as I know it does not Township owned building I mean there's a lease with the Arts Council but it's it's a big public building they have a lot of events day and night all week long should there be one there we'll add it to our followup list and we can uh go from there and do and do we provide training or has or is every we do not okay we we provide internal training to Township employees but that's the extent of it we don't do any outside training but we do for like if in the building here somebody gets trained and you provide the training for we don't regularly we offer it if someone requests it we can provide the training but um we the the division of fire and emergency services does not require any employees to be CPR uh instructors so I don't mandate any training or that my staff provide any training I do have one person who is an instructor on the side and he has offered to provide that training to any Township employees who want it but it's not a Township program per se yes I think one thing we can think about is like I recognize we don't want to buy all of them all at once but maybe instead of buying four we should buy Six that's fine with me is just more money yes all right we Mar follow up [Music] yeah okay on to page 62 uh this next program there's been an ongoing program that the council's pro or the town has provided money in uh the capital budget every other year to purchase Fire Equipment replacement fire hose nozzles fire extinguishers thermal imaging cameras you know everything that we use to operate as a fire department um and essentially the the cost of all that equipment has gone up and the amount of equipment that we need has gone up so the request this year takes that um from $50,000 every other year to7 ,000 a year in order to facilitate the replacement of all that equipment yeah what what's the current funds that in that account right now uh off the top of my head it would be hard to to say but we probably have about three of those three years of that funding with some money still left in it but my guess is we probably have less than $20,000 to buy equipment and unfortunately every year we conduct hose and Ladder testing and some goes wrong we have to replace hoses and ladders and the money just doesn't go as far as it used to so a m um the next item on page 63 is for personal protective equipment okay uh this is fire department PPE this is both firefighting structural turnout gear we have like I said before we also used to buy it uh swiftwater rescue gear um ballistic protection equipment and all of our specialty operation protective equipment uh it's $50,000 a year it's ongoing projects and this is this is only for our professionals right not combined with volunteers no the the personal protective equipment account we provide the the PPE for all firefighters in Westwinds or career envol unteer oh okay next 66 no 65 uh page 65 there's a $200,000 request in for rescue 43 this is a project that Council funded last year uh for a million dollars and it's not enough money the cost of apparatus is increasing faster than we can budget money to replace it uh the apparatus goes goes up about 10% twice a year so I'm hoping that this $200,000 will give us enough money by the time the funding is available to actually purchase the truck so we've already put million is that's how it works correct there several projects like this so that money is already in there and then there's 200,000 additional so the whole thing is going to be a million two a million two then at the end for any of these correct next page is 71 this is a similar situation uh yeah this is the exact same problem but for engine 44 which is at Prince and Junction Fire Company there was $800,000 budgeted in 2021 and it's not enough so we need we're an additional $400,000 to fund that project page page 71 we are we are adding more money to the previously budgeted funds in the previous year yes correct we're taken to uh this one we're up to 1.2 million also they are both going to have $1.2 million allocated for the replacement of the truck and it take how long do it take to get the truck uh there are manufacturers that are advertising a thousand day delivery as a selling point so um up to three years is the current turnaround for apparatus and uh that it's a major problem that the other problem that hopefully won't come up but might is a lot of the manufacturers partway through the build process will raise the prices and if the purchaser can't provide the money they cancel the contract and sell it to somebody else so the last three apparatus that I know of being purchased in Mercer County were bought from dealers from other basically other towns dropped out because they didn't want to pay the extra money and then the dealer sold it to somebody else so the dealers don't mind breaking the contracts because they know people are willing to snap up they got trck long waiting list probably yep um Chief Lynch so the two apparates that we're talking about one for engine 43 and 44 um because we had already budgeted um funds in the previous year is it safe to assume that the design process is complete so we can quickly move if once the funds are available this year the design for engine 44 is complete we're just waiting funding we could in fact we we kind of have a plan for if this gets approved how we're going to move forward so that we can sign a contract basically that as soon as the funding is available um rescue 43 is nearly complete my I believe that they will be complete design of that truck before the funding becomes available in the 2024 capital budget and we we get these off of some kind of a state type contract so we don't have uh these trucks yes we will be purchasing through a a Consortium we don't have to we could go out to competitive bid for it but um both of the apparatus that are being designed are being designed so that we can purchase them through a Consortium [Music] next page is 74 um this is an annual uh accumulated account for building repairs to the princeon junction Firehouse it's you know the normal 25 we put away so for any type of emergency situation next page is 75 um the sprinkler system at the princeon junction fire company is reaching end of life the system is beginning to show damage and um it's a long story to explain but every time the system gets partially activated there's water leaks throughout the building that cause damage and uh we've had to have a couple of insurance claims to repair damage to the facility so there's money in the budget this year for a an engineering study about replacing the system and then money in as a a holder in the 2025 budget to actually replace the system it's similar to we did for 43 correct page 76 again this is a accumulative building maintenance fund but this is for the emergency services facility and I think that's it for you Tim yeah now remember under Brian's budget that he already went over there's $350,000 allocated for a new roof for the uh for emergency services building for this year I have a question in your um 2023 accomplishments the very last bullet says operated at a level of Staff dangerously below the levels defined by Statute so on what is um what is the plan in 2024 does the budget reflect changes to so that you don't repeat that in 2024 uh there was a staffing request made but I don't think this is the four for for Staffing discussions right um they did reorganize last year and um hired another fireman and brought on EMTs versus EMT fire workers so um uh that happened in November so they're in the process of evaluating that and then going forward on recommendation and see how those improvements come out so was that reflected in the it's in this year's budget y Staffing budget aome that's thank you sure any other questions any other questions anyone Sonia I'm good thank you thanks thanks thank you thank you very much thank you 15 minutes you know there's no questions we wrap it up thank you all so much okay uh first thank you to John and the administration for another fantastic year working with us in the budget um this team has been and I've been doing this August will be the completion of 35 years doing this so um team that I have worked with then it's continues to be the best no the later um fantastic the combination of what administ those singles are doing is just incredible so you gotta have a sense of humor you gotta have a sense working in government yes okay so very briefly I'll introduce you to the police department and what we've been doing um just this year I'm going to give you the first quarter of this year how busy we've been and how we are applying all of your money to what we're doing so we're talking the first two and a half months of 2024 we're looking at over 50 adult arrests that have happened so far this year 110 larsy thefts five burglaries 10 assaults a robbery and a rape and those numbers are going up day by day I know it sounds alarming but um these are the realities of living in 2024 out of that we had 8,326 calls for service this is only the first two and a half months I couldn't give you the first quarter because we haven't even reached there yet all right of that I know there was a lot of talk about hey are we stopping cars are we enforcing the laws a lot of residents are concerned about these things they just don't really see us out there in those first two and a half months we are looking at 1,53 cars stopped 332 radar operations 202 selective enforcement operations and on top of that 553 citations were written sadly citations don't go into the coffers of the township and it's not something that we make money offer nor should we be in the business of using motor vehicle stops and citations to uh make more money for the town so we all agree that's a not a good thing so the idea of the motor vehicle stops and citations is to make our roads safer and to make drivers understand that these are the things they cannot do of those operations we are talking about pedestrian andfor ment operations where we go undercover as Citizens try and walk across a roadway see if we survive um on that so it's very difficult in a lot of these pedestrian Crossings where we actually have police cars set up do these operations and then uh hand them brochures or issue them summonses and these are a lot of the main roads that are an issue um you know you're looking at pedestrian Crossings across all of the area uh the best way to figure out what's best in pedestrian Crossings is to at your busiest pedestrian Crossings you know places like penl Road Village Road those are the areas where you know you have students Crossing you have a lot of things so that goes a lot into what what we're doing we've also used the Jamar radar system to look at different developments in different area so we put up a kind of hidden radar device that looks at the traffic that goes through looks at the speeds over a two or three week period and it helps us make a decision is this an area that needs additional enforcement because as you know we get request for just about every Road in town every Road in town is considered dangerous or they consider to be a problem and you know what we want to try and do as much enforcement as possible to help everyone so we use that system in place to try and figure out where are the roads that we can benefit the most or people can learn the most about where they should or should not be uh speeding and that's something we kind of keep close to the vest we don't share with the public just because we don't want the public to know that oh yeah well this road they don't see as a fast Road or anything so we're going to all go speed over here while they're checking over here you know that's not the common thing so we want everybody to be safe and and do well during that two and a quarter month period we had 266 abandoned 911 calls that we have to investigate 360 vacant house checks so that's how many homes we're checking for people on vacation we had 176 burglar alarms 125 disabled Autos over 500 medical calls 224 motor vehicle stops 71 shopliftings and 1594 passing attentions that's where our officers do a passing attention to a business or a place or you know put extra attention in different areas we have the mosque we have the synagogue we have 13 religious organizations that we pay a great deal attention to and we provide help to them um so as far as these type of situations we're very busy as you can see and this is only the first not even quarter of the Year besides that you were looking at uh very quickly wrapping up with our clear training clear training is put on by the Attorney General the Attorney General puts on this clear training which is law enforcement training he does it every year we are mandated to take this training one of the trainings they recently put out was aapi training which is Asian-American Pacific Islander training they came to us and made us part of that training and I was interviewed for that training not because of how handsome I am but because of that we they came to us and said we have a great deal of um Asian Americans Pacific Islanders in our town you have an awesome relationship with this group tell everyone what you guys are doing so that others can benefit from that and I thought that was a really big honor not for me but for our officers because they're the ones who are interacting with our residents every single day and they have developed such a relationship that the Attorney General of the state of New Jersey himself came to us to ask what we're doing to make relations better with this with this group so these are just things where we were one of the first uh agencies to get a TT team and then the county jumped in and put their team also together first high-tech computer crime unit in the county we were one of the first drone units I remember being bered for several hours about drones sitting right not by anyone up here though no no um now we have people from all over the country coming to us asking us how we did it and now the county and everybody else is on board uh the number of lives we have saved with our drone unit the number of people we have found who have tried to commit suicide and we managed to get them before then is incredible um we had multiple donations for canine grants we have missing person canines we have explosive detection canines and we have one of the best narcotics canines in the entire State matter of fact the state police call on us regularly for Arina because he is also one of the few that is not trained in marijuana detection so he is an extremely valuable can uh lastly our first County crisis response team and we use the first and putting together the first therapy canine uh and also at no cost in the township so besides that our worldclass detective Bureau most importantly are dispatchers who have always been in house the trend for many years now let's go cheaper and let's go out a house with our dispatching and they hired private some places hired private companies and these private dispatchers come in know nothing about the town nothing about the residents and now many of these agencies are doing a 180 degree turn and going back to private their own dispatchers we never left and our residents always got top-notch dispatchers throughout so and we wrap up with our world class Patrol unit these are the men and women the boots on the ground that spend every single day some days like Saturday they started the day going to the Dutch neck science fair and our officers learned a great deal I know I did I was taught a lot by a kindergartener about different science projects so I appreciate that and then they spent the afternoon on tactical support for a murder suspect that they spent the rest of the day guarding so our job can be anything from as great or as horrible as it needs to be but this Patrol unit does this every single day they're in the community they're a part of the community they're interacting with the community but they are not too above any job that needs to be done including changing attire when someone needs help which they have done many times or holding a victim's hand while they're in the hospital helping them get through an event which I I've seen happen so um this is just a very brief understanding of what we do and for some of you that are new just to understand what um this Patrol unit does so I apologize but moving to the operating budget WP page six I give you just the John I just have a brief quick question for chief chief everything that you just presented which is absolutely incredible and there's only 11 of us in this room and I don't know in Sony Online and I don't know how many people watching how do we get get that information out to the to the residents of of West Windsor or is that possible yeah I mean a lot of that is available okay um a lot of that I put into we're trying to develop a uh a report that's going to give you that information okay uh it's a little better so I can uh try and develop a monthly report the reason why some of it's not available is because of our CAD system is getting a major upgrade gotcha and that major upgrade we are working on which is part of this budget and other budgets that we've had um CAD system is going to allow us to do a lot more with crime mapping and detailing hotspots and providing that information to the public once we get a nice clean version of that we would gladly put that out so I think it's great for people oh it's EXA and I think it answers a lot of questions that people may have that they you know information they may not know uh you know of everything that our Police Department is doing I agree so it's you send us those stats the council yeah I can send yeah yeah the stats that are you know those are public publicly available there's nothing confidential about them yeah no we're talking about them in a public meeting now tell you where we are at the time it's already right so we're more than happy to share that so I think that's I think what Martin is referring to that kind of information is very powerful and and answers a lot of the the comments that we hear about like how come you're not you know giving tickets on this street um that actually demonstrates um the sort of the the breath of services that you're providing thank you great and I also be curious how those stats compare compare if you you cited this almost a quarter stat how does that compare um to last year and do you you are you seeing Trends in any of that data I don't know have to answer that now but that's kind of like right as a data guy um I'm sure you're looking at that and that ultimately should drive in decisions that you make regarding Staffing and and services that you provide right that's very good yeah and uh you know as you know the pandemic has skewed some of those years so it makes it in to see what has changed you see those patterns and you mentioned that you could send us uh monthly reports starting April 1 sure were I thought we weren't talking about Staffing not Staffing you're you're statistical yes yeah I mean you know two or three people on yeah yeah yeah on to OE forward all right so you will do that right yes I will take care yes ma'am duty to yes ma'am I will personally take care of that okay myself you know in April 1 is not a joke Oh I thought you were joking yes I will definitely have well yeah there's all this all this good money for the computers so yeah yeah we put it put it to good use yes ma'am I will okay so uh changed items on operating line items 214 uh dues go in that sure sounds good okay we see a slight increase in that because of where we at thank you so again a slight increase in the dues due to the fact that as with all these categories anything you see me putting down here that we increased it's just because our costs have gone through the roof on everything that we are part of and a lot of that are associations that are critical for everything we do including you know State Chiefs organizations those that's where we get all our information for events and things like that we're meeting with uh High LEL training and those type of things stop me when you get to one that's important to uh 231 meals uh as Community programs and events increase so does the need to provide necessary items to make them successful and these meeting requirements are some of the items put out make the events that much more presentable we have the religious leaders meeting with us you know so it is customary to uh put out something to put little coffee things like that so these are just simple administrative tasks so you're um seems like quite quite an increase there yeah because we've never ever increased it because I tried to deal with other categories of importance well what you're spending I mean o over the years $650 70825 last year and and we budgeted 2500 last year and we're going to 3500 but it seems that we're really haven't broken a thousand dollars in this category you would have to go back to 2019 uh I I just want to caution you about the a single l a single detail and the liem because if if they're let's say the chief has this OE budget in total to operate during a year and if one of his lines go over he has the ability to transfer between the lines to make up the difference so um you know chances are if he doesn't use that he may use it for repairs or or another line item so we have to be cautious I mean the major in that's it's a big percentage increase but it's really not a large dollar increase sorry I wasn't by it okay okay uh 238 physicals and medical doctors this kind of speaks for itself the cost for fit for Duty or the cost for new hires that cost has gone through the roof as you know any new hire we put through we have to do a medical exam and the hospitals charge quite a bit uh through to do that for us and that includes stress tests and things that are extremely important to know or I think several times though in the past we have found significant issues that we had to move on from a candidate which saves us obviously in the long run that God forbid the person is hired cost us now to deal with their medical needs okay we're good 354 Technical and specialized supplies this is a kind of catchall category that falls into our detective supplies which is all the needs for ID kits specialty kits that we have community policing related supplies K9 supplies so we don't have a separate line item for K9 so technically it is a the canine is a a thing and as line items are concerned so that I mean should we have a separate line tracking all our canine expenses presently the I have to follow a chart of accounts from the state of New Jersey and presently there is not one for them um there is talk of them adding one um if they do we can add that to it but presently we cannot so that's this is a catch all like he said anything that's a doesn't fall under its own category goes under yes and uas stuff for drone stuff as as well now don't get that confused under drone Capital this is not a capital acquisition this could be minor things such as a battery or a uh a rotary blade that type of thing so these are catws for all this area so it's a pretty big pretty big line it lastly and most importantly 424 Vehicles ladies and gentlemen this is like owning a boat okay it is a money pit so I mean we need Vehicles we need them desperately and this budget with the increase will allow us to buy four instead of three so the 180 gives you four correct how many how many do we have right now total total bring my [Music] experts is 42 there are uh staff with the detectives Administration um there is the patrol Fleet um 11 with the traffic bars we also cycled down um older vehicles that are still of use that uh go to the extra fle which is currently at so we're at seven with the EXT Dy which are uh vehicles that are no longer front line but uh get used for extra Duty or in the event of um additional incidents in town we get them out into the street quickly they're not equipped with um computers radios and that thing they still have their emergency L time and if we bring an extra officers that's probably at least one extra vehicle I assume they run two three shifts on the vehicles if they correct that's part of the plan and um so we also had a couple accidents where we total a couple Vehicles so um we we definitely replacement but the but y if we have more more officers we obviously need more cor correct and and they'll they'll work with what we have um now just so you don't know extra duty is the is the traffic jobs that we get fully reimbursed plus we charge our admin fee which covers our cost for the vehicles and things like that we do that through some contract with somebody we do we have a billing agency that does it for us we get our money within 48 hours it's a wonderful program um so we don't have to do it inhouse we used to do it in house and chase money like a you know accounts receivable company so can can we charge them for the car too we do we charge our administrative fee do you do I'm sure if there's way to do it you're doing it yeah and just to confirm this is the unique line item where this is being charged as operating expense even though under other conditions it might be considered a capital expense because the lifetime of these vehicles are less than five years correct a statue would never allow you to Bong police cars specifically that were scheduled for patrol um you had to do it in your current fund that has changed about a month ago so so they're working some new rules out where you can Bond it for 5 years um so that's something we have to discuss going forward um if we're used to funding them I would recommend to fund them um because the chances are most the patrol ones take a beating um and they don't usually last more than five to six seven years at the most so this 180 that's about you said four so that's 45k so I'm assuming that's not fully kitted out that's just the car corre and the all the tech is capital that's yes some of its capitals they also reuse a lot of the equipment also right from year to year we will swap out take whatever we can take in there if it fits you know depends on Bo doesn't change and then the cage doesn't fit you turn into the other thing with u is we're starting to see expenses related to where because it's it as it's put in another vehicle um particularly when we're dealing with wiring um equipment that if there's any little crimp that have happened it becomes a maintenance issue to try and track down and fine um so that does become an issue as we transfer the equipment there's a cost yeah okay thanks the other big ticket item there's no increase in it but the the the largest item aside from the Cars is the office furniture equipment maintenance can you just talk a little bit about what that covers okay let me just one real quick and then you can give detail historically for whatever reason before I wasn't even here this is also their IT Tech budget yes so this is how it's reported so we've kept it in in this line so that's why the description is a little off but he can explain that to yeah you're wondering why you know we have all this money for for nure yeah we don't have we actually have reused so much furniture and got so much furniture for free probably the least thing we use on that budget so that covers all the maintenance contracts that many different maintenance of all the different systems got it are on there including it that's that's also his it budget so I mean it is quite incomp no other code more aligned and we have thought to move it but we have historical data on that line for so many years that y it's just easier for us to track comp can't change the title because that's correct account so Char of accounts and that's how they used to do it in the old old way thank you good explanation no didn't back when there was like one uh one IBM PC for the whole force or something any other questions no okay so so if you go to Public Safety section of the capital and we'll discuss the 24 Capital items let me just get there okay AG 78 good morning my name is Michael mcmah one of the lieutenants and I'll walk through the capital um first is uh our technology this is um again pretty consistent uh category that addresses the the acquisition of equipment um in computers um other Technologies within the police station our mobile data terminals um as well as some of the um camera equipment for the drones and other assets that we have it's something that is a regular rotation um to ensure that we maintain and don't exceed the end of life with the equipment um I guess there's questions she'll stop uh software is uh the next which is page 79 799b there um it's the vital software and Licensing that we need um related to the different systems that the police department utilizes uh throughout the year um from our CAD cost through uh axon which is our body Warr and vehicle as we go through 29 c is um page 81 not a cost this year um we anticipate some uh upgrades in the future so that is not something this year um page 81 we're looking at the security system this been an ongoing project uh to upgrade the uh security system throughout the building um we are trying to work through identify in and and establishing the security that covers uh the exterior and interior um camera system within the building we have the costs associated with the DWI and detective room axon systems page 82 that's 82 it's an annual cost over a 5-year contract radio radio system we don't have to fund that this year just moving forward I guess the next is um page 86 this allows us we've started to um fund uh camera systems at high target areas um that allow us to have access to vehicle ident appication and vehicle uh plates into the alpr system the automatic License Plate Reader system it's a county database um and the funding allows for uh additional uh cameras to areas that um we identify to gather intelligence uh this helps us gather um information about suspect vehicles that pass through a given area where there's a crime in the area it's something that we can utilize to gather information particularly if it's a route um that they potentially could have traveled we can use that to build information related to suspects and identities uh with vehicles how you started that we have um there's a cameras uh was split between the township and uh the developer down at Nassau Park and it's already been very useful in a dying suspect vehicle um it's part of the county database so there's shared information between the jurisdictions uh the hosting of it is done by the county so that there's not that extreme cost to us for it um and we've looked at some different locations um in and around uh Princeton Junction with major travel routes that might be future considerations for the cameras um so that if we have a residential burglary uh or other crimes that we we've had situations in the the community park with um smashed Windows you know might give us an idea of a suspect vehicle um a lot of times when people cover up uh you get them on video the only way to tie it back is through that license plate information for the V vles so is this system totally vehicle based checking the vehicle and the license as opposed to it's it's supposed to what you know facial recognition it's not a facial recognition system the vehicle it's designed to capture the license plate information from the vehicle it does give with the newer cameras the initial technology was there that just um read the license plate and provided the data now you're getting Imaging with that so you can get vehicle description with the the license plate um and is this real time at'll it's fairly real time in the response um you can do a search history on it if you have something um and then the returns we're getting with license plate data is within a few seconds so it's it's not instantaneous but it is something that you get in an investigative period of time to uh something that somebody could watch on a screen or is it more this is a recording it's it's recorded and and the information gets logged so it's more to go back and see if we can catch who correct and and it's if we have a time frame for uh a crime we can go back and check the the vehicles that are in that area or if we have a suspect that we suspect a vehicle we can go back and see if that vehicle was in the the area and and we will get mobile unit so that we can put it when there's we do have mobile uh two vehicles with the mobile license plate readers and fact um we're actually just in conversation uh looking at our future mobile um Fleet cameras that axon who's the vendor we currently utilize has a capability built into the fleet camera which is what records the images from the front of the patrol car records the stop from the patrol car position um has a capability to Li do license plate readers and we're checking the integration um one of the other communities in the county has started that with their cars so instead of having separate license plate readers we might be able to incorporate that into our dash cameras our mobile vision cameras in the future we don't do we have something like if there was something was happening at the pool every day you could put a could put it up on a poll or something we don't have that um but shared services we have jurisdictions that we've partnered with in the past borrow yes we have budgeted for a great deal of hopefully to put in uh five or 10 of these units also a mobile version of the unit they have a mobile interface that is in use in many places like Trenton and uh it actually can is semi bulletproof where it can it can handle different rounds but it is hopefully we won't come to that but but we have the capability of moving that unit around where it can record this is a great project I approached the mayor on it years ago um we both kind of fell in love with the project in that it it provides that Safety and Security in that uh this is already being used by the county and because of the millions they put into the software it allows us to jump on board without putting that million dollar price T and being part of basically a Statewide nwor yeah I remember when we first were funding this the whole thing was that the county had something and they were going to give us free access I don't know if it's still free yes well we'll be allowed to access that system but we're not paying them anything for that we're part of that and that makes our units now valuable to them because they can do searches in Trenton and other places and say oh yeah that car went through West Windsor you know we're getting alert hits on r one that hey this vehicle with this stolen plate comes through and the great news is you know those camera systems allow you to see the entire windshield so we are getting views of the individual in the car we are getting that data so that makes it that much more valuable to us so and the eventual goal is hey can we get these in major intersections throughout town by schools and then filter our way to hey uh Village Grand that's an entrance to a development is Village Grand willing to put up some money to put a camera system that allows us to identify any suspect vehicles coming in and out or vendors who might be willing to in a vendor park or Business Park be able to say hey I would like to have a camera system set up out here we'll pay for it uh the university other areas where we can tap into resources that we can continue to put these cameras in places where God forbid we have a burglary or we have a robbery or something we can now track that vehicle movement or at least say hey this is the only vehicle that was on any road at 3 o'clock in the morning when this occurred so the potential for is Limitless and like the lieutenant said the ability to do searches of hey I'm looking for a white Ford SUV and it be will be able to tell us specifically that information using whatever AI technology it's using it it utilizes the DMV database so there's a license plate that comes back to you know a white Ford truck um it'll provide that information in the search so it does a force multiplier if we have information for a suspect from a nearby ring camera that we can then look at routes of travel um and get more information about the vehicle you mentioned Nassau Park and I see the reports that come in by email you know a lot of shoplifting all sorts of things right so is there any need to renegotiate the agreement with the owners over there for another officer or more money for for technology and Equipment things like that I have to say they've been quite generous with what they've offered to us and the fact that they worked with us on this camera system so it's been an ongoing relationship where they're not afraid to to spend money and and and assist and they know that the depth of what goes on there so I think we're doing very well with them uh and whenever we've asked or whever we've we've pushed for stuff they've been extremely responsive and the president agreement we have right now has a inflation kicker based on the Philadelphia metro area so every year that that amount that they contribute toward the police services goes up is that just one officer it's probably a officer and a half it's close almost 200 it's 180ish off the top of my head um so um 180,000 than give us for Year all right sorry whoever negotiated that agreement it was a really good agreement because they have the inflation kicker in it based on a region versus um some other items there's no end to that agreement as far as I know yeah and and we like it that way next page would be 91 91 and this was something that um was a large cost as you can see $300,000 um this is to continue funding the 911 system upgrade to the Next Generation 911 it was initially funded in 2022 as a capital item for $300,000 as we've looked at the project um that was initially going to be part of the county regional approach which had some uh annual operating cost with data lines that were unanticipated um this allows us to fully fund the project inhouse in our 911 Center um we've worked with a couple of uh different vendors to make sure that we were right sizing um the funding and that should uh address based on the current estimates of the growth or the The increased costs this is something that we have to wait for the state um to come online with right now we're told it's going to be mid 2025 they're actually in Somerset County now um working through the project so this was our only opportunity to fund it to ensure that we could make the purchases and have them in time for the installation with that deadline set so that's the projected time that the entire county is going to be coming on board that's an additional 300,000 to for it'll be a total of six correct um one of the things that we found is much like the fire apparatus the cost in technology um with the system to host completely on site um went up and and the option of the regional uh with the annual operating costs was really going to be prohibitive page 92 uh continue talk to our our vehicles um this is uh part of the the vehicle one of the things that was brought up when we spoke of um Vehicles earlier was the cost was really just the vehicle itself not the upfitting associated with it um so we saw in the the it's actually been changed now to the 2020 five model um there was a 20% increase in the vehicles so this will allow us to manage the fleet and the increase in costs um not only for the vehicles but the um cost of upfitting them for the use lights um cages uh camera systems mounts for the computers uh mounts for weapons um and Equipment storage in the rear of the vehicles so was is this to pay for SUVs themselves or just the this is this is in with the the SUVs and that's the police vehicles um are the uh Ford Ford Explorers so so these will be so how many would you anticipate per year with the funding yeah depending upon what Ford does with the 2026 cost we saw a 20% increase um from the the vehicles we bought last year or for the vehicles we bought last year so the hope is that we'll be able to get five fully upfitted Vehicles as Replacements one of the things that we've been experiencing is vehicle Replacements years ago were being done at 75 and 880,000 Miles they're now being done at 150 and 160,000 miles and these vehicles are operated 24 hours a day um you brought up the issue of of growth of the community and the the number of vehicles um the the officers on day shift hand the vehicles off to the officers on night shift um the vehicles get a lot of wear and tear um the electronics put a lot of stress on the vehicles um uh runtime puts a lot of stress on the vehicles so as a vehicle gets older we see a correlation with maintenance costs they go up um so this allows us to to keep that Fleet in a an an operating U manner it it also when we have the um older vehicles that are involved in crashes and come offline they they're not repaired um so we end up reductions in the fleet that need to be addressed as as well and we had that with uh and it wasn't an at fault for the officer on the end of last year but it was a vehicle that we lost um as a result of a collision so that's uh that's one of the things that gets addressed with that ongoing vehicle cost in the SUVs and I'm assuming these future years are placeholders at this point because I'm saying these future years are placeholders because you don't it's a rotation of equipment um every year cars come offline go to extra Duty the extra Duty vehicle fleets get surplused um and and auctioned off because the cost to maintain them exceed the cost to repair them these these numbers will probably go up yeah they probably will this is just you know a management tool so we we know that we have these costs going forward and each year they're adjusted when it when it's appropriate so the 135 that's again just for the car not for this is where we start talking about the you know the upfitting with the vehicle we work this um this account with the um operating account that allows us between the two to purchase and upfit um the the upfit of a a standard Patrol vehicle is about 20,000 over the cost of the vehicle when you start getting into lights um mounts cage in the back the proper security the mounting of the radios um is about $20,000 more than the base cost all right so we're seeing the car is 135 plus uh you figure another $20,000 for the upfit right so yeah so that's just just the car that's the the car and the up and so the 135 is the car and the upfit that's car that's just the car you'll see there's another line item that does the out the upfitting some of the equipment some of the equipment that's associated 135 one car no no no no no it's multiple mult that that'll be spread over multiple Vehicles the the the operating and the the SUV and the capital will be spread over multiple vehicles um yeah like they're looking to buy um yes so I guess maybe big question like what what does your plan look like as far as how many vehicles do you think you're going to be buying in 2024 at least ordering in 2024 again at least five um we were able to get five out of similar funding um last year which we budgeted for four but they were able to get five for different reasons one of the things that we had last year was was the um some of the vehicles replaced were staff vehicles and they're less to upfit because there's not the cage um and some of the other equipment in it so um the uh it's about half of what that is so between the two they hope to get five got it fully functional if not six if we can get more trust me I will I will get more more you can get for the same price yeah page 96 96 uh this is um the replacement of our rifles uh all of our officers are uh issued M4 rifles that they utilize in their position um this was been a project that we went online with um our rifles are coming up at about the 10-year Mark uh at that point we'll trade in the existing this was approved um money comes available we'll have a trade with the existing weapons and the purchase of uh the weapons um and Associated equipment for the officers moving forward so this is uh the you can see in the projection this is a higher for the one year because this the replacement of our rifles is there a way that this can be averaged out one of the issues that gets um that comes up when we look at averaging it out is they were all purchased in a in a short period of time and the maintenance over time comes up um so working with the Firearms uh instructors it's really better when we trade them all in at once that way we know where the life of the the weapon is and we're not dealing with issues of Maintenance over time when the when the life of the weapon um increases and you start to have malfunctions that's not a position of law enforce officer wants to be in the the opportunity that it's truly needed so this will allow us to trade in all our existing and replace so that all of them are the same age when we have our armors have to make repairs they're using one model in one time period they're all set up the same safy and that same thing that we all know we carry the same block guns the same magazines so that if there is an issue and my gun goes down I know I can grab they operate the same sometimes now I have his and I what do I do with it I forgot how to use this so there's both financial and practical values you know it' be nice to be able oh we get one or two and you know got it thank you radios is uh page 97 um again an annual project to maintain the portable radio equipment address breakdowns failures fortunately a lot of money was spent um couple years ago to replace the wholesale so we don't have a lot of uh costs um but they are getting older every year um page 98 we're looking at uh some of the equipment for the vehicle this is we spoke earlier some of the equipment gets reused some of it has to um be replaced and this goes to the replacement of equipment as we go to the cars we get to end of life with some of the equipment it can no longer retransferred or if the um the honestly the transfer sometimes cost more money than the item itself um to put it in so you deal with they're taking it out of a vehicle reinstalling it um and if sometimes it is better just to um Surplus and use the new equipment so that's where this money comes from or gets applied to uh mobile data terminal uh replacement this is uh an annual cost that allows us to maintain um the the mdts with the current technology ology uh Replacements over time similar to the conversation before allows it to avoid a a one-time cost so this is averaged out over years um doas program spoke earlier about the the Drone um we've had a lot of success um particularly in search and rescue um and and with the drones having the um units in the air and to be able to give us visuals on areas that we cannot get to or identify heat signatures um has worked out very well not only in town but in our in our surrounding communities have before they came online um called us to assist so this involves uh the replacement of one of the larger drones that's getting to the end of life are the grant opportunities we look all the time unfortunately you made the program so popular all the surrounding towns are now competing with you for the yeah and it seems like no matter what Grant we look for the bigger cities are the ones that get all the Grints you I can't tell how many times it's like we see or and we see Tren we see all those big thingses getting we don't we don't get it but we we continue to put in look for the opportunities but it's uh just hasn't been awarded um and that's one thing where I think you could really let the public know the positive aspects of of all that you know the the Drone program has done I don't think they understand we we had a thing at z neck where one of the kids had a had something on the drones was more like a crime or something and and one of your officers was there and we were like no this is used for search and rescue it's used for this and that people don't really even know so some of the uses and and certainly we have the opportunity to put the drones in the air to check an area for a suspect as well if there's a crime but search and rescue we had two drones up um very quickly last year um in February when we experienced the tornado and we put them up very quickly for damage assessment to give a an idea of size and impact of the event we regularly put them up with the fire department at house fires and it's a very useful tool to give The Incident Commander a view of the scene um to understand where the the heat is traveling for fire spread um and that's something that because we have the drones deployed with the officers on each shift in our Traffic Unit and our detective Bureau we can get those in the air very quickly to provide real time information to incident commanders on a variety of different incidents and we've been very successful with it' had done we've done demos show kids a lot of the younger kids all they care about is when it goes up and down I absolutely love it they they scream and yell when they go up they scream and yell go down but they're a little bored when we talk about The Thermals and all the other stuff but they have a great time with it but we try and educate as much as POS possible with it you know so now it's become a lot more mainstream people are used to seeing that on every type of scene and and then the final is uh John General improvements that's something normally it's 30,000 a year this year I requested that we increase it to 50 because we had some um major hits last year so our fund's been depleted a little bit so I wanted to um increase that um as you well know we put more money in for a roof and now we're starting to put money in for the HVAC system over there in the meantime we um we uh did put in a purchase order to put some separate zoning um heating and air conditioning get them through until we can fund that project generators okay generators coming along I guess the the generator was fully certified um last July it went through its final check um that had been a project that had been going on it has um taken the full load of electrical needs of the building uh a couple of times since it's been um certified last July so I think once we do Health which is also the post office I think all all our buildings here will have will have a generator serious issues and the administration and John and more importantly Brian had come to our rescue when the air was blowing out snow in my office was great for stei but a nice touch right Chief nice touch for the holidays so the responsiveness of the administration and Brian and everybody to help us through that was incredible because we had some serious problems we could you've got these portable units now well actually we're doing a duckus system in five or six zones and then that will um take care of it we've had good luck with the duckus systems in other areas yes God so thank you everyone that helped us with that so that's been issued in um should be scheduled to be installed in the next couple weeks I think doulas unit work for heat and cold both yes yeah yeah they work for both correct heating yes heating and air conditioning um we did I'm not sure where this fits um there was a program in last year's Budget on the um on crosswalks uh where you're going to be working with engineering to come up with uh proactively where there might be types of crosswalks put around the uh the town and I don't know if you want to comment on that well what we're trying to do like I said at the beginning with crosswalks is we are trying to find we are have moved forward and have been doing crosswalk safety where we're doing undercover operations I'm not about putting new new cross so so that's something where the traffic Sergeant Kevin Luchi has been working with the township engineer to um identify areas that may have need um prioritize that need and then um look for future considerations that might be um budget requests down the line so that's something that they've they have a a very close relationship um between the traffic sergeant and Engineering uh related to uh new projects that come on as well as safety throughout the community related to Traffic this has been a a big theme right especially the last like five six months crosswalks flashing beacons more lighting all those issues and we don't we don't get an exact list of where you want to make these changes but are we budgeting enough like what would I say if so and so are we adding uh any money for a flashing Beacon one or how how many well trying to get like specific I think Administration and finance wise they have to and as you as council members have to know that there there's a balance you know yes you know we we could spend a billion dollars and fund every one of them uh or we can get an endowment for multi-millions of dollars but I think what administration has really been working hard with with with John and with Finance is finding that balance you know you can't pick you can't pick the most dangerous intersection out there because that's not a thing okay you you can't say an intersection is most dangerous what you really have to look at from a intellectual point of view is what what are your busiest places what are the places that could benefit the most and that's really more of a discussion with with the engineering that we had in the very first yeah but I don't know if we got specific answers I think a problem that is a followup that I think the clerk has and it's really not a budgetary issue there's there's there's monies in the capital budget to accomplish the crosswork Improvement programs it's just that it's spread out in different areas there's not one separate line item in the capital budget for the crosswalks it's under you you can use Road monies for crosswalks we have a program for cross crossing and sidewalk Improvement so it's it's a coordination of many different items it is but it still is a budget issue holistic and and we had put a specific amount for this project last year and remember the capital budget is just the management tool um we can move forward with this and if you decide to add more money for the crosswork pro let's say improvements in three weeks we can do a resol well the whole thing of last year's project was to get us an idea of how much we should be looking at so we don't want to just throw money the whole idea of doing this last year was to put money in for this whole looking at it and and to start on it and to have uh somebody come back uh for this year's budget essentially and let us know hey we've identified some places we think really needed um here's where what here's what we think can be done and you know between engineering between police between uh uh outside groups that are interested and then then we'd have an idea of how much money so it's not a matter of me sitting here saying hey throw $100,000 on it's more we're trying to get experts to to give us dire and I don't know if that's really our expertise in that that we are La you wouldn't know the you wouldn't know the amount you wouldn't know the cost you would know where it would be you can provide some advis and and that's that is where Sergeant Luchi is the traffic Sergeant um has worked with engineering um in conversations related to areas that we've um had incidents areas where there's been reported near misses um to address uh the specifics of exactly where I don't I don't know off of their their conversation I do know that they've met on that topic and talked about it I know that that's also looking at the future uh a common review conversation about pedestrian flows that go to new projects coming in as well so uh the traffic Sergeant is in regular conversation with the engineering related to those things I I think gay has a u gay I think you have it as a followup to get us the list of projects right I have on the followup is to discuss with engineering the list itself I don't believe would be made would not be a public list due to um we don't want somebody to say we picked Street a and we should pick Street B in their opinion um I think that was being left to both the police and the engineering department to um discuss where they feel it's most warranted along with I know that the bike and pedestrian Alliance has sent in their suggestions which have been um transmitted to the various groups that needed to be in staff um yeah you remember right the mayor has said that that list will not be made public um due to a lot of I reasoning uh I do have it as a follow-up to check with engineering as to which budgets have pedestrian improvements in them and I will forward that information once received thank you yeah that that was my understanding thank you right and I do understand that in every new road project when we're reaving um there has been conversation with the police as well with engineering as to what improvements need to be done along with the Consultants that are always part of that project um so that is being done right um and if you I I I just remember that we never want to put in and John can correct me if I'm wrong but we don't want to be super specific in a capital item because if you make it let's say beaks Traffic Safety beacons that's all you can use that money for until we would have to go through the process of renaming which again is another cost uh incurred from my office and John's V counil you would have to amend the ordinance so you would have to do so well so we there are several areas and I will try to get that information before THS and the key thing here what was different guess we've been doing we're when there's a new project going and improving it I guess for years the key thing here was to look at existing uh where there's no where maybe the road's fine and there's no plan to repave that road but there could be some pedestrian issues and that was and to be proactive that way and that was the whole IDE process with the uh traffic sergeant and Engineering am I correct Lieutenant right so I don't know that's correct if there can be a separate presentation on that at some point uh some something to give us some direction I don't know if it would have to be an executive session if there's all this concern about possible litigation publicly talking about it can we talk in executive session about it because there's just this feeling there's money over here there's money here it's here it's all it's all over but we don't see it and then and then residents come you know to our meetings are you going to put one up over here or there and it's like well are we putting one up even next year flashing Beacon I'm try I guess we're looking for a little more the the question I get specificity and it doesn't have to be like at what intersection but I think it would be super helpful for us if somebody with your advice because you have the data that gets fed into the engineering team to say we're gonna finish that thought over the next 12 months we're going to put in four beacons and three lighted crosswalks and X number of new stripings you don't have to say what specific intersections they're at but just to give us sort of a order of scale because there's money that has to be spent to accomplish that and we're being asked to approve a budget to do that but we don't really understand what we're getting for the money that we're approving and and I don't expect the whole I don't expect that we're going to solve it in one year and put enough money but the whole idea is to have a plan it's to show we understand best I've heard on that that is what is the scale we thinking so like yeah let's let's look at a scale of four or five because you know when you when you look at the data that's when things can get skewed let's look at something as simple as Rabbit Hill Road if you look at the fiveyear data that was done on Rabbit Hill world before anything happened there was one accident SP here so according to that data and you use that slippery slope of is that dangerous that puts it as don't waste your time here yep okay so really we don't want to look at where is that danger whereas we look at North Post Road and Clarksville I can't tell many people have said well you know every body this is the most dangerous intersection you've ever seen now if you actually look at that intersection during rush hour it it looks like um something out of one of the Indianapolis 5 speed with and you print with the am of cards but if you look at the data the accident data you look at the stuff behind it that is a an extremely safe intersection there's lots of different data inputs here two distinct ways look I think buy or Hey listen how many do we need I think that's something that's do but we've been trying to say say this for for a long time and volume on Route One okay that's fine all I care is that things get done and and all I'm looking for is is we we've specifically said last year we want the experts to come back and tell us how we can make this place make the town safer as far as pedestrian and bicycle and and and getting through and that we want the experts to come say okay we we've looked at what which uh uh streets we think these these can use something we think these could use a flashing Beacon but this one could use a we don't want to we don't want to be the ones to tell you uh because everybody will I will tell you everyone in this town will tell you exactly what to put on this intersection but we've asked we we would like the experts to come back and say okay we feel this intersection could work with this type of crosswalk and this type of this intersection could needs Improvement but this will work and this will work and to come back and have the experts give us some sort of a plan that we could fund over a period of time saying we we feel like let's do this this year let's do this next year let's do this accept we say safe really saying let's look at the expert data as to and and we're leaving it up to the experts to say well this is this piece of data is more important than this piece of data so that's we're trying not to get into people's data really to make an informed decision feed we want like the top here the top 10 priority places that we want we're gonna we think we can fund if we give you if we have a half a million dollars we can get all 10 of them done or maybe we decide it's less yeah but it's a collaboration between your inform the whole idea is to move this forward and move it forward on not just streets that we've got other funds for us we already fixed ing them but to uh because from what I've been told that we've been very reactive in terms of um you know more like oh we're fixing the street so we'll make this street good but we don't have as much of a proactive let's go out and um you know see where there may see where there are problems and and come back and talk about ways to to move move it forward to get it fixed yeah and can a line have like crosswalks Andor flashing be like combine that so it's not just I would suggest if you're going to do something you would make a pedestrian safety improvements correct that would cover everything from Soup To Nuts and and that's I thought we had I thought we had that but I'm not sure I agree but not just right now there's a budget item and there's what a $50,000 in it and there's just a budget item but it doesn't really tell us any I don't mind leaving that budget item but I think we could talk about to us what the plan is for using that budget I how we're how we're even determining going forward with it thank you okay you have that on your followup g i do again I okay the follow office Thursday well you have that THS yeah the list is what we follow up from each of the two meetings um some of the information most of it has not been budgetary in nature this would you all believe this is so uh I can't guarantee we would have a list or anything because this will be collaboration between engineering and um the uh police department but remember we're not you're not really approving the capital budget today when you introduce the budget the only piece of the operating budget is the down on payment correct John correct and then the then the budget would be done the bond ordinance is done separately which you would get ahead of time yeah you know we started several years ago where you would the bond ordings you get at least three weeks ahead of time right so Council can make comments or recommendations and I am you can easily change your capital budget just put a resolution before we introduce it's more of a management tool um just so we have the 5% we generally know what we're going to do because between now and July things may change priori might change so it allows you to do that but we still need to have available 5% in the operation budget to cover it which is pretty tired right now um there is a little bit of of of of of I have a little bit of a cushion there so if you came up with a recommendation to increase some funding I can I can say yes or no um you know because I round things so there is some there is some um cushion on the 5% right well at some point we need to know the cushion well I need to keep a certain amount for emergencies you know and things of that nature so um you need to tell me what you want to do and I can tell you whether I have down payment or not we get more information or the data report then right then we can kind so much see where we going I think as important as a list of places and what the councilman was saying is a listen four or five would be good to put in and then we can work on where those places would be based on the collected data but I think what he's saying no what are we going to get the money really think that there's three or four that would make a good start but it's not it's not just places because you part of the direction of this project from last year was that you might find you've got a lwh hanging fruit of a particular Street and maybe a crosswalk works and that's pretty cheap or something that's cheaper where there might be other things where you'll see more expense so uh there's a ratio not only of number of places but the experts coming back and saying this is what really will work on that street and that's where the num dollar numbers come in and that's the problem because each cross section costs very very variable is very high one may be 20,000 another one may be 200,000 you know it all depends on the conditions and and what some of them are even cheaper some of them it could be you know almost operating expense money or something but uh so so there's two there's two variables there I got it it's on the followup yeah and you got the bicycle and pedestrian alliance's recommendation and you have to see do you agree with them or not all right to follow start thank you thanks thank you thank you thank you very much thank you Chief thank you does anyone need a two-minute break or anything anybody well were you going to take a break well because I gotta I gotta text Public Works it's gonna take them he's here yeah I need a five minute break okay minut okay just as an fi I would log out around one o'clock I have to go for a procedure so I'm going to log off at 1 o' so I'll stay on call until 1 okay we're just take in a few minutes e e e e e e e e e e e okay we are back live the March 19 2024 budget meeting number two and now we'll move on to Department of Public Works hi Tony please introduce yourself yes my name is ton espo uh I the director of Public Works uh I've been employed with the Township since uh 2000 started in the road department and moved into the sewer department in 200 uh 11 I was promoted to que chief of the sewer department 2014 was promoted to assistant superintendent it was 200 21 was promoted to superintendent of Public Works and just recently in February have been promoted to direct well thank you for your service for 24 years thank you Public Works is divided into three divisions facilities and open space um sewer maintenance and streets and Roads um the facilities in open space takes care of all the playgrounds uh parks open spaces uh some of the Municipal properties like PA here EMS on the taking care of the grounds um they do a lot of special events sporting events as far as striping the fields and such Harbor day uh any special events with the stage that the township owns um through the rec department and such Sewer Department maintains the pump stations um and then private along with the storm system throughout the town uh we work alongside with engineering with those issues we are in the process of updating a few of our pump stations um hopefully by 2024 that those projects are done along with decommissioning one of the stations streets and Road Vision they maintain brushi and leaf collection along with pole street sweeping that tree pruning along with any other special events also all three departments help when there's emergencies uh from the snow to tornadoes and events such like that we all come together and work okay you can go to page 11 and 12 which starts with the public works OB Public Works is flat for this year correct it is so there's no increases at proposed for the public works OE budget any questions next budget is snow removal this is the standard amount there's not an increase also we set aside 163,000 um whatever is not spent goes into our trust fund um for the storm it's called storm um improvements and and snow um uh we have a nice Reserve in there presently of about 500,000 um we've been fortunate that we haven't had major snow storms the last couple years so we've been able to put some money away um so we won't have to increase this budget for several years too so going back to the Public Works of OE a couple of the big items um vehicle repair Street lighting signals is that for repair of street light signals as opposed to procuring yes we have a handful of street lights that's Township's responsibility um including some of the desk crosswalks and V lights that we do a monthly inspection when they were not working prop that out to service that makes repair and I guess something similar for Tech special equipment and it's also for the signals that there are signals that we have to pay for so that isn't part of it majority of it's for also signals U that the county doesn't pay for it's the county used to provide that service right right and they stopped doing it about five years ago so we had to start picking up the cost so anytime a light that's one what of our roads we have to pay for repairs but what about like um the county road they that's still the County's responsibility right okay and Road striping is lines that's not specific to cross cross okay thank you be sewer and it's page 12 and 13 but when you're redoing the striping you do all the paint right I'm sorry when you redoing the striping you'll do whatever paint is on the road right or do you just do the stripe down the center uh it depends on the road if we have to do a bicycle Lanes uh and center lines and stop bars correct yeah so you'll do any of those any of that that's basically paint striping yes yeah where the sewer system that is also flat on page 13 correct yes any questions on the sewer system um yeah the vehicle repair um your budgeting 10,000 but you seem to go over that a lot so does that going to do it or on the 278 or in the publics sir sir um yeah um from your not every year do we adjust the in accounts that's something he can maybe look at next year maybe taking some money from other lines and moving them around um but I mean it's pretty consistent yeah so he can he can what he'll do is so if he needs money at the end of the year he'll take money from other line items as long as he's within his overall OE budget he's fine but every couple years um certain departments will take it and they'll they'll do adjustments between lines and that maybe that's something we need to look at for next year okay but overall he has enough money to continue he may just have to transfer money at the end of the year if he needs more repairs within his own budget and that doesn't require Council action we're allowed to do that internally it's only when we go from one Department another we need a resolution that's at December January November December and then January February March of the following year okay the next items will be the capital it's under the tab for public works and it starts on page 102 I did have one question um so do you handle who handles like um when we hire a contractor like onsite or something that does work that most of the time is would be Public Works type of work so is that come out of your budget or where does where do those come from well it depends it could be public works or buildings and Facilities it really depends I'm thinking of for say retention basins or circles and things like that so tent basins yes uh Public Works maintains a few and then it's space right which is through engineering and that's one one of the contracts we issue out where they do the maintenance of the kov I mean the detention Bas and some of the cue sags and so that so that would actually be that contracts put out by engineering correct and so you don't get involved in that piece of we're just thinking who who checks to make sure that the contractors doing engineering does okay page 102 so with the 24 items yes uh 2024 we are asking 42,000 for the replacement of two riding mowers in the uh parks department we're replacing a 2006 and a 2012 mower as you can see these are not your normal mowers they last a very long time and they're commercial any questions yeah of course so the 42 is two mowers then correct go to page 106 that's our next 2024 item and wait till you see the price of this mower thing comes down this is just one more 128 yes that's for one mower uh 128 128,000 this is for a roadside mower it's got the sidearm rear deck sidearm along the road and it cuts the road sides yes that's all that does uh and it can do Open Fields uh when we do that once a year but yes it's strictly made for just roadside can be used on sewer easements and stuff like that to keep them accessible also right I guess it does the Middle Island if there's no nothing like trees on it or something I'm sorry if there's a Middle Island if there's not trees or anything then it could typically though the islands that [Music] we we don't maintain many of the islands I think that is true commercial cont cont plus that's a really slow machine and you want it to be able to be to the side of the road and that's replacing a 2008 right okay all right the next page is 108 uh requesting $150,000 for the replacement of two pickup trucks in 2024 um as John mentioned we keep our equipment a long time um to replacing two vehicles that are from 2008 by the way I do appreciate that you list on the bottom what you're actually replacing in the year it's it's very informative thank you okay the next is 112 page 112 113 I'm sorry we are requesting 120,000 for the replacement of one cran truck um this truck is used within the sewer department um it is to pull and service the pumps within the uh pump stations um it will be replacing a 2011 page 114 oh that's the big one of interest to this oh the leaf pickup truck yeah the leaf pickup truck yeah yes uh 2024 where reest 385,000 for a new one arm Leaf truck um it will be used within the road department during leaf collection we've had good success with or uh last year's purchase of the leaf truck um we had some mechanical difficulties that they made some repairs and it is up and working good now oh is is that currently up and working yes okay because we were supposed to get a uh [Music] leaves yes there there's not a lot of leaves out there right now to use it on um we are in the process of training the employees my black I have plenty of leaves on my front lawn if you want uh with those oak trees that we have um so when when you're actually doing some leaves and stuff had have you actually used it for this year um 2024 they've had it out once so far um trying to get the residents to Source separate naturally don't want to suck up and vacuum up any debris that could damage the unit um it specifically made for leaves um last year when it was working when we first got it it was very successful um once again it's doing more with less it's oneman operation you know and Out On The Road Less employees and have you tried using it to do the R it uh no we haven't uh once again it went down uh had to go back to the manufacturer for them and the dealer to make some repairs and we've gotten it back and it's up and running now the public should remember we have to separate the leaves correct from the branches branches and and everything else that they put out correct yeah so is this truck the same model make model manufacturer that you you can plan to buy similar to the previous ones yes and how do the employees like it I'm sorry how do the employees like this um they like it it's a game changer you know it's less uh Demand on their bodies as far as raking and shoveling it's all from inside a clean cab you know uh out of the environment out of the weather it seems to work well and the plan uh when we first initiated this program was right now it takes three people to pick up leaves uh this brings it down to one so we don't plan on get ring of anybody because we're we need the the people so this allows Public Works to take those two two bodies and use them for you know Road improvements whatever whatever necessary labor intension very much so so this really really once it gets up and running it's gonna it's really be a big help yeah and it also seems like it's challenging to stay on schedule with leaves so this will probably help that it is um 2023 was an amazing year I think it's the closest we've ever completed love leaf collection by the first of the year I think we finished by like the third of January which you know in the past years sometimes it's taken us into the second or third week in January to complete you know weather permitting naturally seems warmer like fall is delayed a little so once we have the three trucks will that mean every leaf pickup will pretty much be able to be done by this automatic one man Le truck um hopefully that is the projection that we can go towards yes so we think three trucks will be enough for the town Sonia are you still there yes I'm here oh okay and you had said you had a hard stop at one it's 103 yeah I'm I'm like getting up to pack up myself you have any any questions um no I think I'm I'm good um the only question I would have is um with the leaf pickup truck have has your staff um seen any challenges with residents not separating do we need like as a Township do we need to do a little more education towards that to with the residents uh yes I think education is key with the residents um even starting out this year with with brush collection and leaf collection um there's a lot of comingled stuff which we're trying to educate the residents on moving forward to make this whole system work we have some U nice pictures of the truck maybe we could use that promoted probably some you yes I'd be absolutely make it look cool and fun and and the thing is that this brush division isn't just for this truck it's because of the ham Hilton uh you know the way Hamilton is taking taking everything we're not we're not asking people just just for the truck but we do need it for yeah it's a d requirement now that we separate so yeah in the past we could come angle to a certain size but no longer and and when we were going into this whole division there was a whole question do I have to remove the bars do I have to take each twig do I have to remove the leaf from the branch so I think we kind gave people Direction on that so are we still in when when we're using the truck does the direction that we gave still fit um for the most part yes so um once again we'll uh try and educate the residents moving forward the machine cannot handle large branches or or or solid objects uh cannot suck up pumpkins and stuff a lot of residents think that stuff can just be recycled in their leaves and such like that but it just can so not with this piece of equip and all of this debris should be at least 10et off of the sewer grates right right because some people just they it's the stuff is right next to sewer grates and then leaves and branches are flowing right right down and that's for D reir correct right truck okay next page is 117 and this is the general fund that we do for our buildings is to 25,000 that we set aside um for any um Replacements that we need to do for the public works facility any questions that it that would be it yes yes all right oh well oh I'm sorry couple more pages actually there's um two left 1201 this is a 2024 requesting 250,000 that's for sanitary sewer improvements um this is done every year um case there's any any emergencies and stuff like that we don't have to come to council for any extra funding it's already buil in correct correct Yep this is money we set aside every year for those type of items you know it's coming useful over the years yeah it has depleted a little bit so now we need to hopefully build it back up so I remember going out the sewer main break yeah on the 571 there you yeah yep okay oh 121 yep uh 2024 requesting 20,000 same thing for the uh storm system sewer repairs uh it's something that's asked every year also just in case there yeah that's something there's some D requirements that we have to do every year and this this helps funds fund that um you know and it relates strictly to storm order is there like a master plan for the whole sewer system you anticipate certain areas might be aging terribly where we would have to replace well that's that's being funded through engineering if you noticed they put um I think 1 point something million in this year when we had them in here this is just for we set aside for um being proactive doing cameraing um and having money for emergencies um where when we when we need to do upgrades and those things we try to use put fun monies in through engineering so we can keep this money for those type of things but we can use that for those items also engineering is doing that whole ms4 project right now yeah we did that $6 million Bond last year that's doing the upgrade on the one side of town and now they're they're putting in close to I think it was 1.7 off the top of my head for sewer improvements they also have to do that whole survey and y y yeah's a whole D requirement for that whole Beyond on me so anything else anyone Sony Sonia are you still there no all right thank you everybody thank you thank you very much thank you we're looking forward to the uh the truck yes once I get that set up I'll give you the I'll let Gay know that way we can all beet and do a demonstration on street that would be great all right be nice thank you thank you I think they got the bugs out they had a couple recalls so should be good all right good all right well we could move on to public comment so um I'm not seeing anyone in the audience here for public comment so we'll move Beyond public comments no one has left close session uh not needed correct correct no no close session so a motion to adjourn so move second that all in favor say I I I objections me --------- is that music in the hallway Oru prob some very soft music okay Sonia can you speak say something can hear me now yes yes we can son can you speak say something can you hear me now yes yes we can okay I think we're let's see we're okay we came out of speaker M okay so we should all all right Sonia you had Sonia you had a question um I I had a question on a capital project so when we I can I can hold my question hear yeah she Sonia you had Sonia you had a questions can hold my question Sonia you have Sonia you had a question oh 30 seconds whatever is there an echo happening there or something is on repeat is EO happening there or something is on this is new I I haven't seen this before I guess that would be a a John a followup question that can we get this fixed okay like we can we figure this out whatever Tak Haven seen I hear follow this is a new one like we can I hear you this is a new one [Music] yeah for those of you on YouTube um we have we're having technical difficulties um in bringing in councilwoman Sonia gawas uh so that's that's what the delay is we're trying to fix this YouTube um we have we're having technical difficulties bringing councilwoman Sonia gwas so that's that's what the delay is we're trying to fix us difficulties that's that's a weird delay very long it's not just a time to something to the next yeah yeah what's going on there okay yeah I I saw you are not in the room I see you are not in the room and I keep hearing the same thing it's like crazy loop okay okay yeah I saw you all right so we'll we'll continue and it's like before Ken leaves we'll try and get answers hello all right so we we'll continue she's helping okay so her question Ken is there were talks about adding a splash pag had is that a possibility at the pool that was Sonia's question she's helping for now okay so her question Ken is oh my God talks about it's part of the is that a possibility it is part of the fiveyear plan I believe it's in for in 2026 so her question where that summary it is part of the fiveyear plan I believe it's in for 2026 25 it's in it's in the capital plan for 2025 that money come out of the recreation trust fund no we don't have enough in there to no that's part of the overall General improvements that we do pretty could you use that money I suppose but they don't really have a lot of money anymore since the pandemic we lost they're carrying probably a $200,000 balance instead of a $400,000 balance so well it's a big expense but they don't and they also need a reserve just in case they're carrying probably a 200,000 bound so it's not out for this year no it's not no it's not all this that's big expense and they also need a reserve just in case they're carrying she I think she went back to also need a reserve wellon I want to get Andrea back here though yeah we're gonna see if we can get I get Andre back here though working on that meeting [Music] um all right we're going to continue with the capital now AG 56 in your books yes picture so this is the general Park Improvement fund it's $25,000 a year for you know small fixes to things in the Parks uh we use money General Repair the heat in the batting cage we've used it for lamps on theall field on baseball fields there there were some questions about adding so that the we're taking care of it should be happening right now took care of it I saw some guys working and and they did a they did a tremendous good we also do get $200,000 a year out of the um open space tax for development par development I that's somewhere else yes I'll get it go to the last tab last tab open space annual Park development page 126 that's somewhere yes okay go the last last half I I hope to put together an actually fairly large scale project at Duck Pond Park um to fingers cross hopefully begin sometime at the toward the end of this year where we would put a large Pavilion bath large scale Pro inclusive playground over there we would also need to we need to red the courts the courts over there basketball courts and the tennis courts are in really bad shape so that would be big project that we were use money that we what are the plans for the parking the uh area we I'm working with the engineering department to hopefully at least pave the main drive up to a certain point um where we think that the dust will not be uh to Theon Jun that's that's going to be done separately hopefully with the contractor that's currently contract Contin that will be yeah that will be sooner than later separately hopefully with a contractor that's c um there's a project I think Sonia wanted to ask about the the one I think we moving that's now into 2025 the splash pad down the next page um is there any thinking for that or what's what's the status on that yeah we we have a pretty good idea of what we can do and what we would like to do um in fact we've gotten a price from um thinking for that a uh person the uh the company that does the maintenance on our facility um so we have a pretty good idea what we would like to do just you know when the funding is available we can project yeah well it's a $300,000 Pro projects in today's dollars but it's spread out over 2024 100 2026 100,000 28 100,000 right yeah well it's a 300 I guess that's General improv no no I'm looking at 28 page 128 is a is a 2025 so it's 350,000 right right and if I remember that was when when that project was first proposed they thought there was water going right up to it and then it turned out that it was a lot more expensive because some of what they thought was underground wasn't it was that's why this is so expensive yeah initially it was designed to have a splash park but I guess the infrastructure was not put in as I initially thought when they first put in right and that that made the project more than we originally thought it was going to be a few years ago when they actually went in and took a look at it correct right so that's probably one of the reasons yeah and Linda $100,000 that we put away a year is is similar to the $225,000 that we do for other projects but um you know when things break in the pole it's very expensive so that's you know we build up a little Surplus okay okay is there any other thinking uh as far as something special for the for the pool something maybe less expensive or is anything else in the wind as far as making you really I mean really the only other Improvement we could do there would be to well there's a couple I guess uh you could put another slide at the slide pool that's um it's built that is John uh it was designed for that so we yeah he fing his head he doesn't want to do that obviously and and we've always talked about you know taking the basketball court away and putting in either a lesson pool or something to that effect or Camp pool where we could rent the camps that come in and it wouldn't affect the the membership so those are things that we've always kicked around but you know never really uh fully looked at as far as pricing goes you don't like the exra have to look at the use are the kids playing basketball there and yeah I mean they do but we we do have courts yeah we do have Courts at the at the yeah I mean one advantage though is sometimes the older kid you know you come with the family older kids may want to do that gives them something to do and the younger kids are doing so it's uh you know it's not a bad thing to have there give a lot options for a whole family yeah yeah can can play basketball they get hot they can right in the pool yeah it's not it's not something that we've you yeah it's just something how to attract uh somebody once they hit Queen it's great for kids it's great for us older adults to go swimming but there's that one group in between that that seems to toct somebody want they hit Queen okay I'm gonna pass on Sona and so it's not M because I happen to do like to do lab swimming uh so you're saying another lap pool would be nice or something that is actually an uh an issue there you can come just about any hour and for adults it's very difficult to get lap swimming in there's there's people waiting all the time there's um you know part of the reason is because we have the diving board and that really restricts how many laps Lanes we can have and so I don't know if there's something that could be done for lap for lab swimming to make it uh you know more available we could yeah at [Music] that for lap swimming to make it any other questions Sonia can you try to speak all right can you hear me now I'm really scared to speak um can you hear me now son can you try to speak all right can you hear me now you're coming in I'm really scared to speak um can you hear me now can you try to speak all right can you hear me now a little better yes scared to speak um can you hear me now yes can you try and speak it's still in a loop though okay now a little better yes we have on their way can you hear me now yes youy it's still in a loop though okay now a little better yes we can you hear me now yes it's still in a loop though okay A little better yeah now yes it's still in a loop a little better yeah he me now yes in a a little better yeah are there any other playgrounds that you want to make um more inclusive to children at at this point I mean to to uh are there any other I think it would be best if we if I could do something at Duck Pond to make that AAL total inclusive one you're not coming over can you speak in the point I down you're not coming over I would like to keep that uh at Duck Pond for the because it's the surfacing that's the that's the makes it totally inclusive aot times like that board in place like to keep that so it's easy to uh duck get across for someone in a wheelchair to do that at other locations there there's more space like community park so it's easy for instance there's a lot of kind of space that's not really used for anything because surfacing but really couldn't just do the surfacing around the playground have we have to do the entire that that playround sits in it's bigger than what it needs to be if you can understand what I'm so to do that inclusive surfacing the entire surfacing has to be that bigger surfacing already designed for it the entire to do right the school district is on way yeah okay is on way so hopefully e e for e e e e