##VIDEO ID:RAq1HSKsq8A## and we've got two people zoomed in here and not what do we have we have Mary there okay good okay uh welcome to the September 16th 20124 meeting in the y y Board of Health uh first thing we'll start with some attendance Mary are you present present great Eric present h it is Larry pres and Charlie is not so we have a quorum that that's fine just keep in mind as usual this is a hybrid meeting so people can certainly be here in the audience or be zooming in um to watch and participate okay the first item is public comment and if anyone here would like to come forward with some comment or even questions whatever or anyone at home or wherever they're zooming in from no takers no takers okay number two let's go there's a green burial request this is at 114 Mayflower Terrace in South Yarmouth and underneath we have a name of Ross K mcer so Jay or Barry do you have anything to say but m m M's here um he came and had going to come on up and um very interesting subject it's never I've never heard of a green burial till I started doing some research for Mr mcer um it's Massachusetts is one of three states that allows it there's a lot of parameters that needed to be checked beforehand um one know is make sure outside the title Zone um not in a Zone 2 um outside the the 500 year flood line I had to have a uh soil soil test done to uh make sure there was clear from groundwater has to be at least three feet from groundwater and three feet deep so we did Mr mcer did all the research and we did all the percolations tests he can tell you a little bit more about what he would like I would suggest um you had a question about the map the blue map the dot the outline of the property didn't come out as well as I wanted it to but the dot is where we did the perk test did the soil test so that's outside of the the water buffer it's outside of the zone to it's outside the wetlands okay I have some specific questions about that but um let's turn this over to you and can let us know what you're interested in and perhaps educate us as well because I've been on the board a while and I haven't seen a case for this okay before yes I'm Ross K mcer and I'm here on behalf of my father Ross Walter mccartie who lives at 114 Mayflower Terrace and he his wishes he wants to be buried on his property and I'm going through the process and seeking your approval for him to be buried on the property uh some background on my father he's going to be 85 next month the last two years have been hard on him we probably should have gotten this started years ago but you know there's still time to do all this stuff uh he was a science teacher environmentally minded his you know whole career interested in archaeology genealogy written books on that and I'm just trying to help him honor his wishes he also wishes to keep his home in the family for generations and generations and I think this is aligned with that okay thank you so um well I can just start you up the map I just had a couple questions about it yeah um and I guess um it's not visible for me any distances here which I assume um you know I in the packet that we I don't know if there any Town RS or state Rags they weren't in my packet I don't know if anyone else got it so I'm uh I didn't do a whole lot of homework there there were a couple articles background yeah that's a problem with that only in that I don't know who where this came from um you know words where's the source of the information is it timely or where it came out of it was good reading and I learned a lot from it however I don't know the source I pulled this off of the State website okay massachusett State website okay and then there's one about where and how to get a green burial in Massachusetts that was just off the internet that okay um it's just nice to know who who wrote it there's a picture of this person who it is or where it was published so in the future I think that would be helpful for the board just the source of the information okay make sure it's on target uh they're both easy to read and certainly to understand um the other thing on the map is today in preparation I went online also and started to look into this um and that would be distance I guess as from not only the wetlands but for other green burials or cemeteries you know uh how close in other words is there a density issue for this dealing with soil for instance um are is there anything uh related to how far this the site here or the dot is to other potential uh contributors to the soil I mean I think that's really lot of this is about um I don't know are property lines uh in issue or not in other words how close is this particular site from Neighbors um I'm I'm trying to learn about this also and obviously need to look out for the town fact you're here is a is great I think for what you're you're requesting um so I don't know if we have that information or not from this I don't see it I I would have to do a little more research to get distances um I didn't find any I just know like the the setbacks so some of the parameters was you're not allowed in a zone two to do it you're not allowed you again you have to be within outside the 500e flood zone which is that's why I highlighted the flood zone on here so the where the property would be would be out of it the property is on a hill and it's up higher um we were good 16 feet from groundwater 16 plus feet from groundwater so groundwater is not an issue um where it's at it also has to if it gets approved when he does it there has to be an as buil kind of like with your septic show where like everything is at and then where the actual plot is on the on the property that has to be recorded with the the deeds and stuff like that too so are there any issues uh of local Wells that uh for private water that are relevant to this uh the just throwing a whole lot of questions I mean public water to the best of my knowledge is uh on all the houses in the area what I'm actually referring to there's some people who have their own Wells for their water um that's all I'm I'm kind of asking if we know anything about distance is if that's relevant here or not look I can look that up um when the uh who who was our um Bob Perry Perry Cape cot engineering Cape cot engineering um I think when he did his research he didn't mention any Wells to it so um but I can look into it if we need to you know I think there was there is an issue in that area though you know who that person is or Perry yeah yeah he's uh actually he's um an engineer I've worked with him many for many years and um I think he might be on the he's on a couple boards in Dennis uh for the for septic and stuff like that so okay very reputable gentleman yes I believe the requirements distance uh between a well and a septic system would be around 100 feet and since everybody has septic systems around there I can't see this being a factor as significant as a septic system okay and I'm not sure if you have have a map that was generated by Bob Perry of Cape Cod engineering I brought some if you would like these okay it's Hillard okay thank you teacher yes uh ninth and 10th very nice so you can see the elevations up where the the testall was done it's way up there like 86 and goes all the way down to 169 so it's definitely high elevation right there um so is the location of the gra uh grave site where Boring number one is yes yes would there be any issue in the town with neighbors did you get any concern with neighbors I am not anticipating any concern with neighbors uh yeah I view this is kind of a personal thing um and I don't think he'll be making too much noes of keeping anybody up well I I you understand that but when the people obviously your neighbors moved in they didn't anticipate a green burial next door true they may you know just being trying to be sensitive to their their requirements too not sure how that would make if we're beyond the scope of our preview on that or or what we we need to figure out apparently this is up to us um I mean you make a good point I just personally I'm see what I can do to make this happen I think it's great again that what you're here for um it's some it's it's Unique in that we're talking about someone who's still alive and um so you know we're we're going to work on that tonight right now as we're talking um yeah you make the point of someone who could see this as a cemetery and they didn't think they were going to be living next to a cemetery that's not how you're looking at this you know I understand that we're just trying to as the board for the whole town we need to think about what other people think and neighbors would be relevant and then really don't want something to happen after the point um what about a grave marker how would that be I anticipate something simple and flat so unobtrusive and not noticeable to anybody walking by or any of the neighbors just you know something that shows where the location is and where family members can pay their respects what is what is the plan for instance for I hate to do this um after your father passes what happens with him prior to the burial in other words are there regulations about that you know how are how's all this process in other words it'll probably be the health department needs to be looking over uh what takes place in other words uh does a casket meet the requirements specified in that no no caskets no boxes has to be like a woven where's that the reading I came across that there you can depending upon what something is made out of maybe I misunderstood it um that the requirements and the materials you would use uh may be fine I've seen the same thing you saw that Pine soft wood such as Pine are fine to make a casket of because that readily decomposes yeah so that's aligned with a green burial right and I I think that would be sensible and tasteful in this and I've also been working with a Chapman Funeral Home okay so they'll be handling you know some of the arrangements for this and then I'll you know do whatever needs to be done on my end yeah no I apologize for TR you know raking you over all this um yeah I mean we've all been probably to enough funerals you know the caskets are made out of different materials um some are probably toxic I imagine what they're made out of whether it's metal that's there um that's one of the concerns we have is about soil um and and chemicals a little bit um so question the question was who's who's going to be keeping track of that um of of the process and uh Larry you made the the ISS brought up the point of a marker in other words you know who okays that or um so this is new for us which I'm just trying to lead a discussion here figure out how we can make this happen for you yeah and as Barry mentioned a shroud is one possibility uh something Pine is another possibility and something simple I'm like my father I'm very environmentally minded that I actually teach in Alternative Energy class uh and so I I think this is very aligned with that something where you know things break down decompose and end up in the soil rather than in a concrete cement liner P you know pumped with poisonous chemicals for a thousand years right and what about the issue of cremation in all this my father um being big in genealogy and history and all that stuff does not want to be cremated at all um I think if someone did want to be cremated it would probably be something s simpler than what we're doing now uh you know probably just scattering some ashes and being done with it or bearing a tiny ear so yeah my father specifically does not want to be cremated it sounds like that simplifies it believe it or not some of the things I read maybe we've gone over some of the same things the issue with the ear was really what metal they're made out of and is is that environmental issue there as opposed to just sprinkling ashes yeah this has been an interesting Journey as we've researched this and you find out burials at Sea are you know legal just have to meet the requirements other things uh is you know I've researched different ways that people are buried I know the body from my research they it can't be in balmed so no chemicals in the body and stuff like that that won't go into the leech into the water into the ground so Larry Larry what happens with with animals in other words I don't know if you know anything about this at all in other words if the the backyard is filled with with animals that are typically a dig a back hole comes in for a horse digs a hole six 8T deep right and there no mus no fuss and that's the end of it I'm not even sure any permits have pulled on those or there ever been an issue with a permit that I'm aware of at least in the Town of Barnstable where I've been familiar with putting horses in the ground right over the years the number of horses that have seen buried is basically just the back ho comes in and Fs up hole and and of course the only concern and I been ask a gentleman here is going forward um sale of the property obviously it would be could be an issue going forward if the family decided to sell the property and I don't know how that how that would work it's going to be in a trust like situation probably an LLC to you know keep it in the family for you generations and generations as long as possible yeah so it's the point if it ever did get sold it would be a mood Point anyway as far as decomposition goes it does it does have on the de excuse me it does have to be on the de right the other part if I could just ask you talked about this being generational would you envision eventually a family Cemetery could this could this expand I'm not seeing a whole lot of expansion at this time uh I mean way down the road possibly one other but I don't I don't think it's going to become like anything big my father's wishes are generally somewhat unique I think okay all right so I'm not envisioning like a family crypt somewhere so I didn't I didn't know if that you talk generationally this is going to be in the family it has been already and congratulations to your dad on all this but the fact Mr chairman that there's only three states in the whole country that have this is not a well research or it's not common a lot is being put on the board here and they're asking appropriate questions you mentioned neighbors you mentioned a number markers and this isn't a well researched and a well vetted area it just isn't uh we'll we'll lean on the the funeral director quite a bit on that should the board and maybe there's some more research that has to be done here um but there there isn't a lot a lot to go on that we never had this you mentioned cremation really all you need on cremation is approval from the property owner right if someone wants to even on a on a town beach if someone said that they would need just permission from the town to spread ashes without a a container things like that so cremation is a whole different category and certainly much simpler and much easier with permission written permission from the property owner this is something different we have worried about elevation and erosion and things of that nature but it is it is uh some of this is spelled out uh but it's not well research there's not a there's not a lengthy history uh longitudinal work on this there just isn't Jay have has the department looked at records to see if we have any any record of doing this prior no history no paperwork this is the first time this has come across our my Des brought this up with six other directors that I know and they've never this is the first time first for everybody so it's it's a very unique thing what you're Wan what your father wants to do so that's we do get calls on cremation this is this is different Mr chairman yes Mr chairman I I have I have a a comment and a question you know I I think that we should be aware that this may be something we will be facing more in the future you mentioned cremation but that is a very um polluting process so you know most people that are environmentally concerned as this gentleman's father is you know would would not even think about cremation for at least environmental reasons secondly I'm wondering if the funeral home the funeral director with whom the family is working have they had any experience with this what what is their knowledge about this I pretty sure they have not done this locally uh although interesting at Chapman Funeral Home uh the woman I was working with was from Jamaica and she she's basically said that this is very common in Jamaica where the family handles many of these things and if they have a little bit of land they'll just bury the person there and so my request and how I wanted this to be handled my father wants it to be handled uh she seemed pretty very comfortable with that which was nice so as an aside in my 46 years of practice of veterinary medicine this is routinely done with an horses cows you know any domestic animals that I'm aware of and I've never heard of issue from as a result of that although it's I don't know I mean people just I don't know if they do it discreetly or if they or what but most it's very common for people to bury their dog out back or something like that so it it's a pretty common occurrence in with animals it's just as as with the rest of the group it's unfamiliar territory for me but from a biological standpoint would be no different the decomposition would occur same as I mean it would be much quicker than say a horse a th000 pound horse and uh usually there's no evidence of that horse except for bones maybe five years later of what bones which would be want a marker there so that in the future you know people weren't concerned about finding them if they were exposed are there any issues in the soil I'm I'm looking to my left you're gonna have the answer of um of in infectious diseases in other words what was the cause of death is that relevant to uh putting that in the ground in an infection in other words if there's some there satic or sapric organisms that wouldn't be a danger any more than they are now I don't think that would be an issue I think there's enough biological processes that take place under underground to alleviate any concern with that just as it would with a septic system even more so probably even more so this is just for the record I I think it's a great request then it's does it seem prudent that we develop some type of standard procedure should we receive a request like this again in the future to at least help with our record keeping the department for the Massachusetts um where we got the the law the guidance they every one of them has to come in front of the board for permission so whether it's nothing I can or Jay can do over the counter they all have to come in front of the board if we get another request sure but I mean may I guess what I'm thinking is I don't know a form or something to to have on file in the department casket type things like that just just some Pro yeah yeah not to impede the process but to help the board to help facilitate the process right it'll make us look more intelligent that's for sure could also really simplify things for people who might want to do this is this already press here's what you can do you can do a shroud you can do a pine casket horizontal marker and so just streamline it whereas when I started this process I didn't quite know where to start and Barry thank you very much for your help and guiding me and doing some research with us and I thank all of you for having me here tonight Mr chairman I I do think if you're talking if you do if the board were to go in the the direction of writing protocols I I do think it should be referred over to the Conservation Commission as well because of environmental issues I think it should be on their agenda and in front in front of the Conservation Commission to weigh in on this because you you may as I don't forget uh his gentlemen or others have said or maybe Larry yourself might we see more of these uh coming in there probably should be but I think the Conservation Commission would also um want to weigh in or should have they may have procedures and setbacks that are different than the state regulations um well that but that would be a local thing then it would be as we start to set the parameters um but certainly environmental this this is every all the questions that have been asked here aside from the neighbors have been environmental issues and that's certainly their perview and that's their their their space that they work in the conservation group what do you think about the neighbors I mean do you think they should be involved at all in it if nothing else that you know whether they weigh in or not but they should be notified yeah I think they should be notified but I agree with Mr Perry that it's a I'm s not Mr Perry Umi Mardi that um it's a private matter but right right but I do think there should be notification and maybe opportunity to just respond okay it might have some insight that we're una aware of what about the markers should be have any kind of a regulation regarding markers or Barry what did you see in your research it just has to be noted on a on a as belt basically it doesn't have to be marked it just has somewhere in the documentation um of as belt of where the location of the burial is so it could be a tree it could be a planting a shrub it could be something of that nature be anything just on an it has to be like as they do we do a an as built for a septic right debox on the plot plan yeah on a plot plan on the deed somewhere yes like on a plot plan just has to be on there somewhere I mean the bigger concern I you bring up is someone may feel they want to have a 12 foot marker or something or you know light on at night or something so that there needs if we're going to go the route you're saying which I think is a good one we need to be able to have the tell people what they can do in other words is it a height limit is is it you know 14 in or whatever it would be um I I have a comment Mr chairman yeah um um you know my my thought would be in terms of notifying The Neighbors when all of this is settled um and hopefully positively for the um the gentleman who would like to be buried in this manner um that perhaps the funeral home could write compose the letter to the neighbors assuring them that they have met all of the Massachusetts regulations that has come before the board of heal etc etc um and I think that way if there were any concerns people would know that this was just not something that was being done without any oversight and without any um acknowledgment of any kinds of concerns or ramifications of the burial I would ask that of the we're going to make that a requirement or with I mean it sounds like it should be maybe voluntary right right I'm just suggesting that that's what I would do to to make sure that you're you from the g go you're you're notifying the neighbors but you're letting them know that there are regul state regulations they have been met uh that included going before the town Board of Health Etc maybe I could draft a letter like that myself including all those sure that you mentioned Mary I think that's a really good idea yeah I hate to see things getting delayed for you until we put this together which I think is is is a great idea um I mean the example you gave up about the you know about the marker is that in the state rigs that says anything about markers or I didn't see anything in my research about about it so Trad mosum up I mean it just you know what yeah Green burial I think is a key term here where traditional green burial will have a horizontal marker or no marker at all something as Barry mentioned so yeah having something upright like it's going to look like a Halloween prop uh in October I don't think that really meets the criteria for the green burial people that are wanting the green burials are wanting to not disrupt and as much as possible I think exactly to just kind of keep it simple and Back To Nature the way things were intended to be uh so yeah so it's not a a law that I know of just green burial will have the horizontal or or nothing that would be another Assurance to your neighbors what you personally intend to do yeah um because your interpretation can be different than somebody else's neighbor of what they think that's that's what the board has to look out for um so it's not question what your intentions are really isn't it's a question of the next person um they where the neighbor May interpret things very very differently so you need to be protected in what you're doing I mean and you need you know need the Board of Health to to move along with you on this um so I'm just another comment I'm uh my neighbor recently put in a request to build a fence a Butters are notified they have an opportunity to appear before the I think it was the old Kings Highway historical committee neighbor made a presentation photos documentation neighbors have an opportunity to speak you know I I don't know as we want to necessarily get involved in telling people that they need to have a marker that meets certain criteria I understand where you're coming from but you know it's a sensitive area right and so I don't know I'm just maybe for seeeing the opportunity for Neighbors to to weigh in I I don't know I'm just kind of thinking through the other processes that we have here in town in terms of building on our properties I I don't think that we should have the whole autter thing on this I think it takes away from the personal aspects as long as there are regulations and they have been adhered to they come before the Board of Health as this gentleman has and in the future hopefully there's a checklist so that it will make it much more um much easier for us to go down and make sure that we are comfortable with what's happening and that all the requirements have been met um um I I I don't I don't think the abutters need to be notified other than by letter from the family so Mary are you just suggesting that we determine parameters in the regulation right but but not in terms of the um the the marker or anything that that's you know could be no marker or it could the horizontal one you know and and the the people requesting permission for that type of burial can decide that and that's what they communicate to the neighbors but basically it would be that because this is a green burial and I'm guessing not many people know about green burials and understand um but that could be part of their education you know that because it's a green burial the marker will be simply flat you know horizontal um simply so that the family um you know will know in the future and that it has been added to the plot you know just things that will reassure people so that it it will take away some of the kind of strangeness that they might feel or you know fear anxiety because it's new I I'm not sure if I agree or not I'm trying to figure that out Mary um in other words I mean if we have regulations if we have certain standards then I would agree with you that can inform the neighbors but if they are following what our regulations are or what the Board of Health has stated for instance the the height of a marker um and the setbacks right if it's on paper in this case it may be helpful that we're going to just review it because regulations it's not going to be written in time maybe to help you in this case then we can still get around that thank you but what are some of the key things that should be rigged so the neighbors this is just how life is here excuse the pun but it's um then it shouldn't it won't make any difference if the for instance this gentleman would just fall what the town is requiring then there's really no issue at all well I I have no problem with that Hillard but we don't have those rules but you're basically saying we should have a policy um with regulations um about you know and set our own parameters in addition to the state ones correct maybe it's all in the states I once again I didn't see the state regs through all the details maybe it's all there and we have nothing to really do other than give a guideline out or a copy of the regs the state regs to a person who wants to come in front of the board maybe the work is all done I I don't know um you know if it's 10 steps that people need to take take then they'll know what to take that's all and then this would be a pretty simple matter uh when it's sitting on the agenda next time the board I just want to clarify I'm not suggesting that the neighbors really get involved in the process I'm I'm merely suggesting that you know we we have something in place in the health department to to streamline the process so so that people can come in and have on record what their intentions are and when they come before the board we can clearly process the the request just as the department can and I mean like it or not these are these are public meetings okay so I understand you know I understand Mary's concern and I actually agree I'm not suggesting that we necessarily put parameters for a a marker on an application but um you know an individual can appear before the board and and notify us of their intent and again like it or not the process in the town is that it's a public meeting so you know I think that we maybe don't need to necessarily worry about um the prospect of somebody erecting a 12 foot tall maum in their backyard because the natural checks and balances that we have in our processes I think would would address that does that make sense well we what would stop someone from putting a 12 foot marker up in other words how would you feel you don't have to answer it in other words or how would I feel if my neighbor is putting up a 12 foot marker with lights on at night wouldn't that be our jurisdiction when they come to us for a permit are were you saying 8 fet or we would the side on that's something I which I think you broke up is we'll have some guidelines to say well I don't want to start judging 4 feet versus 2 feet sure here's what we do here's the twoot cut off of height or something well well we're not even I my understanding was it was something that's going to be horizontal on the ground say for example you could mow over or whatever you wanted to do just to Mark the gravite right but who's to say that you know somebody might want something 6 in off the ground or 12 in off the ground or 2 feet off the ground start to get into Cemetery which might be a little bit another issue right so I guess I was merely suggesting that you know if there is a notice sent to neighbors you know like we have for a lot of our processes in town you are being notified that your neighbor at X address is intending to conduct a green burial they have a presentation in front of the Yarmouth Board of Health at such and such date and that's your opportunity to I agree and to if you have if you have concerns about it there's your opportunity to come in and appear before the letter would also say what what the rigs are or a copy of it or whatever so they know what to expect and that's up to us not to yeah excuse me not to create fear but to say that the regulations have been followed it's being handled by a an authorized and licensed funeral director in in accordance with state regulations and and and as Eric says very well but they do get to come forward and it's not a referendum of voting but just to Simply say geez here are my concerns and maybe it's just an educational process but at least they know they don't just see and I hate to say this you know I hope this digging in the backyard because people do qu people question all the time we get calls all the time when people call are they working on the septic system by themselves I think someone's working on that we go out on these on a fairly regular basis what's going what neighbors watching nebor they watching out for their own property sure they're watching out for their their biggest investment and they look at their abutters and people across the street things of that nature we're a close-nit community we we do have that I think there's value in educating and maybe alleviating fears that we're we're familiar with it this isn't being done on you know underhandedly or or privately this has all been gone before the Board of Health I I think there's some work that has to be done back in my office as far as the Board of Health and get the board some information again I'm going to say it again I do would I would like the Conservation Commission to weigh in on this as well because if they have some concerns that we're not aware of I think that would be helpful but I think we have some homework that we could be doing to help guide the board in this and and just in saying that there's not a lot there's not a lot of regulations and we'll do this very timely this doesn't have to be a six-month process we can get this done in a timely manner that the board May might have and you'll edit it you can but we can craft some guidelines some framework that the board could work on that's a suggestion and I think it's a good one do you think you can make that happen I'm of you this should not be a lengthy process Barry and I can come together and we can get this goad um when M mcer came to me I again it was new to all of us the first Department I went to was the conservation department and Finn and the conservation department he's the one that sent me this the where and how to get green burials they have no regulations on okay barrial either so this is new to all of us right yeah so it's building I I I even went to the building department and asked them and they have it's not in any zone no bylaws or anything like that so you think we've got enough information to act on this request tonight and so this gentleman would have an idea where he's at I personally don't think so um if something urgent was come up you can come back to us okay um if you think this can we can put something together yeah would help me that doesn't mean the whole board feels the way I do right I I wouldn't want this to be a lengthy process to tell you the truth I don't know this how much how much research we can even be doing I do I do want to look at this the state regulations and give you some give the board some framework to be able to have a protocol and a standard uh for the applicant we wouldn't take long and just looking at what what the next it would be early October whatever that first the first Monday in October I'm going to say maybe the seventh or something is it the seventh yeah okay I I'd like to think at the next meeting we could come back with some some framework yeah each area would be you know it's different if someone wants to do this in Boston you know it's relevant to where we live and um it'll be much more complicated so yeah that would be great I do appreciate the timeliness uh with this as well as I mentioned the last two years have been pretty hard on my father um right now he's blind and one ey this this kind of came up gradually and then not gradually but end result is Squam cell carcinoma which is stage four he's currently getting immunotherapy treatment he seems to be responding well but uh you met him yes yeah so uh within the last year and a half or so he's gone from having like pretty good sight and now blind in one eye so I'm just I just appreciate the timeliness factor on here and again I'm hoping he's going to be around for a long time a long time and we can share some time together but I'll be much relieved when this gets checked off and it may be the board in that framework that I'm hoping the board will then will will draft draft something that they can look at Ed it um and it may be notifying the Conservation Commission notifying maybe some other other departments Ju Just disappoint and then Butters if that's what the board were to decide but you'll have a a stand a procedure that you may quite frankly may never use again if this may be one time that you're doing this I've never seen this before but you should have something in place is it issuing a permit is it something the word gets out it'll be more popular than you think it is save some money that's for sure me just generally speaking I think it might be more popular if people even knew it was possible well Larry all the more reason then to have a procedure in place right and because otherwise you just randomly there's no standardization to it whatsoever I mean this is an ideal situation just for the home they've been there they want to keep the home yeah I would think more I agree with you more families probably like to do this e even to Simply say you're you're only allowed one barrial not a family plot but only a single plot on each L it has to be something there has to be some parameters that the that the board is going to have to be able to be comfortable with right and there may be variances built into this right there may be some certain situations might have your mom there may be other things to say and you can apply for other things other variances that come up that has to be built in so you have some framework otherwise we we're just kind of we're kind of shooting in the dark here good point you could be four generations of people who are going to own the home in your family of course each one would have to go before the board and make a request so that that's where the power lies with the board to acknowledge the request or or say hey you got a few too many people on that front yard or or and quite frankly the board may say the limitation is one one per lot or there may be something of that nature so those are the things we're going to I think the board is going to have to come up with and we're not going to have a lot of guidance but the state does have have some regulations we can look at the other states someone with a little bit more we've never seen this before but the Board needs some framework to work off of here if if you can if if if you could give us what we at where the 16th now if we could have three more weeks to come up with something uh we can put something in front of the board okay uh so far so good and I yeah I think that will hopefully be an adequate timeline and hopefully be you know more than enough and I realize that this is kind of a pioneering thing here that we're doing since uh no one's gotten a request like this it was interesting how Mary pointed out that this is something something new and it's something new but it's also something old 100 years ago this is probably the way it was done going to a funeral home and all the things that we're doing now probably weren't done a hundred years ago at least to the extent they are now right Public Health has come a long way you know pathology and you know infectious disease and things of that nature but you're right you're right that was done uh probably in in the pioneer days it it was done but I think Public Health the the discipline of Public Health has has has grown and matured and regulations are in place for a reason and and there's regulations here and not to be restrictive but to be protective and and balancing that with the family your intention so I'm I'm confident we can come up with something we all don't know what's in our backyard I mean you know and and based on I know the fun industry has become big I forget the name of the book that dealt with that but on what I know if it's done properly very minimal risk to Public Health I don't really even think that's an issue if it's done Lawrence you made a very good point talking about people just getting a backhole and burying a thousand pound horse and nobody thinks anything of it I mean it's standard yeah you you've got of course these we're talking you know Acres they're these Farms are probably five six 10 acres they usually will designate a place in the farm for as a burial and a lot of times they will put a marker very sort of uh inconspicuous marker that's that's the way it is and it's sort of a standard process okay okay everyone move all right forward to talking with you more and I guess I'll be at the next board meeting which will be October 7th the board hasn't set that yet but that's the first Monday of the board meets on Monday the 1st and the 3D and that would be the next that would be the next meeting the seventh of okay and when does that get set at the end of this meeting can we can we just you want to do that now or I was going to say could we not just notify sure or whatever you guys want to do I don't care either Eric why don't you decide what would you like to do octob it was the 7th that sounds fine Mr mcer what Jay and I come up with I will be more happy to get it to you in in advance so you know what what we'll be looking for and stuff like that thank you and I don't know if I can be of any help in the process as you develop guidelines maybe just running it by someone who's trying to do it could offer a perspective that could be helpful I think that would be helpful let the funeral home do some homework I mean for you um let them see what they come up with doesn't mean we have to follow what they're saying but they may have some sources of information a lot of the funeral homes now they're fewer and fewer companies they own more and more funeral homes and I see a bit of a conflict of monetary interest at some level uh yeah with that sure absolutely anything we could do that doesn't require that I think would be beneficial okay yeah I agree thank you this is very inter appreciate you bringing this forward um and we'll get back to you in a timely manner Barry will reach out if we need more information before that seventh meeting thank you and it was really good being here with all of you and yeah there are you know things to consider especially with this being a bit pioneering in the modern Days please there Arts it is interesting uh as we get you know driving electric cars and you know locally grown food and things like that people are actually starting to look into different types of like burial situations uh hydr process or hydr cremation which you may have heard of so it's it's an interesting time and look we get to be part of it please communicate to your dad that in fact the board did not deny this we just need some more information and and and we wish him well the board best wishes to him in his health but that this was not a denial we're just looking for it the board just needs more information I really appreciate that and I understand the importance of getting things you know checked off all the boxes checked off here so things are just done smoothly and you with uh you know a mindedness for the future just telling we hope he doesn't need this for a while okay okay yes you you and me both I hope to spend much more time with my father but it'll be nice to have this uh done so thank you very much you thank you pleasure meeting you and I look forward to seeing you hopefully on October 7th hi I'll be in touch thanks thank youate okay uh number three here this is nitrogen aggregation plan proposed amendment um it looks like it's for a vote and it's saying 446 and 473 station na South Yarmouth and we apparently have attorney and singer here tonight yes good evening good evening um Andrew singer attorney in dennisport here with J hall from Kia Enterprises uh we were before you several years ago when we uh put this nitrogen aggregation plan into effect when the Shell station uh on Station Avenue the old Shell station now was decommissioned and the new station was built across the street when we were before you um a few years ago we had noted that the land the current Shell station which is 446 Station Avenue was being put under conservation restriction which one is that now the old Shell station it's now been the tanks are gone next to Dunkin Donuts the one that's on the corner or the one that's right next to okay not yeah the one on the corner is separate we're not talking about that this colia owns the old Shell station which is next to Dunkin Donuts and that's the property we're talking about so that property right now is subject to a deed restriction there can be no hazardous use on the property and that's fine that's not part of why we're here tonight there is another restriction the conservation I'm sorry the nitrogen aggregation credit land restriction which says you can't do anything with the parcel so right now you can do nothing with that parcel it has to be stripped and left as a vacant piece of land in the commercial Zone there we knew that when we were before you several years ago and we commented to you we commented to the board of appeals that KIA was always trying to find some other land they'd like to swap it out so that the old gas station site could become productive again in the commercial zone for a nonhazardous use so it's still a win-win environmentally and so they found a piece of land and that's what we're before you this evening um we've had several conversations with Jay and Town Council has weighed in on it because um at the risk of you have a wild agenda tonight this is another unique situation which hasn't really happened before uh and so what what I prepared for you a lot of information is you have a memorandum which is basically the same memorandum we submitted to Jay and to Town Council and it discusses credit land discusses the rules the laws the regulations and the guidance for credit land I also gave you a draft amended credit land restriction and a draft amended facility land restriction the facility land is the new gas station the new seasons Corner Market that's the facility land and so what we are asking you for permission to do there's a lot of legal Hoops here but the upshot of it all is that if you agree this piece of land and we you have this plan this piece of land on West yth on West Great Western roadr for one second you mentioned a number of things I in my packet don't have any of those I have a cover letter I I I sent electronically when I when I emailed to to the board and said because this pack is this big you about week ago you received this electronically to review did you did you didn't see it okay Larry yeah yeah okay because it was it was so significant um in the paperwork that that was sent sent to electronically Mary did you get that yes I did okay do you have the plan in there could you pull up the the plan maybe we can give it the h a lot of the legal documents are a lot of it's just legal legal e but the plan kind of brings home what we're what we're at it it was near the yeah there it is yeah do you need a do you have a copy I you looked at it okay great so this piece of land on West Great Western Road and you can see it highlighted there um what Kia would like to do is this this piece of land is much too big it's much more than they need they only need to protect 26,000 square feet of land under their nitrogen aggregation plan so what they're proposing to do is to restrict at this time a strip of land up the side which is 26,000 Square F feet that would leave the remainder of the property to hopefully be able to be used by others to so restrict for credit land in the nitrogen Zone um in the future this land meets all of the qualifications to be credit land this is what we worked on with Town Council and the memorandum that I submitted lists it the 310 cmr5 216 lists uh nine or 10 criteria that you have to meet um and this is going to meet all of those it's going to be permanently protected as nitrogen credit lands so uh right now for example this land on West Great Western Road it's surrounded by Town land if the town someday wanted to do something with that land they could with this piece that KIA owns or this piece of it to start um you couldn't use that piece you know that land would be permanently protected and restricted from anything that would introduce nitrogen into the ground so any you know whether it was a horse uh you know the biological functions or a bathroom you know any kind of a septic system the reason for doing this the for as we alluded to this several years ago is that right now the the old Shell station next to Dunkin Donuts it's it's right smack dab in the middle of the commercial Zone and we all think it might be the best the best this is better land to protect because it's actually surrounded by open space as well and this would allow the the old gas station site to be used for it would just be a store or an office or something it couldn't be anything that would introduce um or hazardous material there would be a septic system so it would introduce some nitrogen right but you couldn't have anything hazardous so no more gas stations no more um uh Auto automobile repair things like that the documents that we entered into with you a few years ago uh in in I think it's a paragraph 10 expressly provide that we can do exactly what we're seeking to do with your permission you have to agree to enter into that you can approve an amendment of the Restriction document and those those are the drafts I've given you that's what we're asking you to vote on tonight is and we'd sign them later but we're asking you to vote to agree to amend to do two things it's a it's a vote to release the current credit Land from the restriction and in place of that to restrict the new land and that's what the documents I prepared do it's what they would accomplish if signed and recorded and that's what we're asking your permission to do and um again I gave a lot of material and we did go over with Town Council so if you have questions happy to try and answer them and look forward to the discussion thank you board members I don't know enough until until I'm not going to be able to Value here tonight for this so I I don't have any questions they the uh the applicants did did say when they first came before us that they would be looking for other land as a possibility for the restrictions so and just so the board is aware and we did uh attorney singer and the kobia Enterprise team did come in we've met with the Building Commissioner we had a question we needed with certainty to know that the land uh that's being proposed met the qualification the zoning and and all the requirements building and otherwise uh as credit lands and Council responded in the affirmative that in fact it does meet credit land so it's it's an offset but it it does have that um and I and I believe just as a point of Interest I did today is there some beautification that has started on that on that property I I just over the was I the weekend or S today some some soils coming in and the beautification the the buffer beautification buffer we discussed with the your board and with the ZB yeah because that that work has started right yeah the uh the hard pack was stripped over the weekend and removed around then LOM I think it's LOM went down and was shaped today shaped today into the into the beds that'll get planted great um ultimately if there's another a use for that that that building for some reason I always say like a bridal shop or something there you go I never know what it's going to be it won't be a gas station and that's my world um it'll get it'll continue to be landscaped and and maintained but at least it would be a a useful piece in the middle of the commercial Zone rather than a vacant lot and it would have to go through all the town permits you know whatever was needed for site plan review and yes so that's is colia going to maintain ownership of that until we sell it I mean the game plan would be sell it to somebody who could put it to a use um that's that fits all the guidelines all the restrictions that are going to remain in place um like I said it couldn't be a automobile shop or a gasoline station there's a number of of uses that it wouldn't qualify for any long longer but there's a lot it could be but all the all the all the beautification if you will the buffer zone uh the requirements that were in place when we uh went through permitting will all take place over the next few weeks really there's really not much left to do any comments I'm fine with it Mar anything else no fine with it so we're voting on this tonight so someone would like to make a motion I move that we request the approval of the amendment to the 2022 nitrogen aggregation plan involving 446 and 473 Station Avenue South Yarmouth um that we um release the current land from restrictions and established the new um described land um as the um restrictions yeah I second that okay any further discussion I'm glad Mary made the motion yeah I left it up to her any comment on that Mary no I hope I did it okay you did fantastic job as usual yes okay good so that's the only discussion we have so I'm I'm just going to abstain from the vote and just I'm not prepared to to vote on it I just didn't see the material so uh all in favor passing the on this two Mary it's three unanimous all three votes go to work thank you thank you very much I will submit to Jay we'll submit sign copies from colia that would then go to the board it doesn't have to be at a meeting but you could they can then sign them and then we will record them with the registry that'd be helpful great appreciate it thank you all very much thank you very much okay you to make that meeting right now okay okay number four here is the poultry permit continued and this is for uh over 70 Witchwood Road Barry what are we doing tonight on this so last week when or last meeting we only had two of the three abutters uh signed a letter um saying that it was okay Larry made the suggestion that he knew the the third party and he was going to go talk to her so Larry if you want to kind of let us know how that conversation went yeah sure it was just really a misunderstanding I think actually the rats were more of a problem with the particular neighbor that bed at signing um uh signing the letter she was actually had some problems with rats in her property uh she's very environmentally conscious actually I learned something that uh meeting with her that she actually has these rat traps that or uh bait traps that sterilize the rats they don't kill them they're not poisonous they actually sterilize the rats so they're doing vasectomies in the cage or what I think it's more to do more to do with oh my God yeah birth control uh feminine birth control I think so reversible uh reversible right exactly I thought that was pretty norel fortunately for you we have our medical student here tonight so I learned it it's pretty novel and I think this is a a fairly new um Endeavor in a lot of wildlife where there's population issues I don't know gear um raccoons other wildlife in in U Suburban settings that they're using these uh um progestins to uh for birth control as deter the population density it's going to follow into our next chapter our next thing but this that's how they the mosquitoes they they spray the mosquitoes and for the males so they right they neutralize them so it's so she was fine with signing the uh letter which I explained I went to first I went and looked at the set up it's really nice family it's a family a little she had a couple of boys or a couple of children and the family has um I think they're only six chickens or you know and they're they're real uh part of the family there're more pets than uh and and the facility was very well kept um I certainly had no issues with it and then from there I went talked to the neighbor and she was fine with signing the letter and you know I think we should just grant the permit this sort of a nice morning everybody seemed happy anyone we can turn this into a motion I think Larry yeah please yeah so I I make a motion that we approve this uh poultry permit for uh Dan Abu on Witchwood Road I think that uh complies with all the regulations that we've asked second good and I assume there's no further discussion okay let's let's vote all in favor granting it okay just to finish on go ahead may I I just have one question of Larry Larry um I think that's great that that get we're getting away from rodenticides because that's a real problem absolutely especially these second generation right so so does it um if if a a raptor a hawk were to eat um an animal that had the um hormone in them would that affect the bird I would think so uh I mean it's it's a progestin I believe I think it would work the same way to suppress um fertility what's the halflife though on it in other words I don't know I I don't know I didn't really look into it you know I could I certainly could find that out for you because be ju you can yeah I'd be happy to I should have anyway I just was delighted to hear that number one she would sign off number two she wasn't even killing rats in the process right so thanks for going over there yeah no it was it was a lot of fun she'd been a client for a long long time very nice lady and she had as as Barry had uh expressed she'd had a ton of bird feeders and I think that's where the RS were coming from and and if the board recalls at the last meeting and autter Mr Quirk did come forward and and wanted advocated for that and and it was just being held think somewhat there there was some frustration there I am going to reach back to let him know that the board has in fact moved forward with that so so the it was just a whole for more information and that's uh she was they delightful family as well kind of family I had in mind when I talked about the poultry permitting to begin with it really a nice little family uh Endeavor a nice little project going and they get I'm sure supplies enough eggs for the the whole family doing a great job we'll make the applicant aware of the board's decision but I also want to make sure the uh the Mr Quirk is made available that made is informed that the board has moved forward in the affirmative with that now the coupe was very in unobtrusive as well you hardly even knew it was there until you went out to look at it just submit your bill for time okay no I won't it was just gratifying to nice you did that see I was happy to do it yeah it was nice you did that story ends in a nice way is always that's great okay number five here it's an update on Triple E in the West Nile Virus Barry is that you oh I I can I can take that you have some information in front of you so the board understands here we are in September but with the warm weather and it's still humid out um the risk to Triple E and West virus is still very real and it will be so that those listening at home as the board knows until there's a first hard Frost and we're we're still in some very warm weather um so the the risk continues the the State Department of Public Health announced on Friday they have their now uh 11th case of uh West n virus human West n virus and uh the risk to Triple E is now being in certain areas conquered uh moderate risks uh some are high risks aerial spraying is is and ground spraying is starting I think aerial spraying is up in Plymouth County ground spraying is happening in wer and it's just so that the board is uh made where and more so to the the community uh that's listening um precautions still need to be taken right there's still the risk the Dawn and dusk uh long sleeves uh repellent making sure that we're you're being personal precautions being made and also on your property standing water and things of that nature so that the risk is still very much real the state is concerned this is probably one of the highest and M Hillard you have mentioned this that you know although it's rare it's severe right and Triple E especially what I'm talking about as far as the severity of that I think it's a third there's individual mortell right so that Al although although it's very the the the risk um it needs to have individuals attention and uh people are out walking as we see the sun setting earlier um making sure that precautions are being are being taken care of so the state and and this this is all up on our website if you go to the state if you go to our town website the uh the dashboard is there and you'll be able to see um what this what the sampling that's going on and uh they're being the state is being very aggressive in communicating and we're following their protocols and of course it's not rare if you're the one that gets it that's right then that that yeah yeah that's right it's simple surgery if it's until it's on you right exactly yeah your math skills I think it's what it's about yeah that preet class that you took to get it to school I mean it shows it's nice okay number six here this is acceptance of the meeting minutes from August 19th 2024 if anyone has any edits or I just they're written really well was great I don't have anything to add does anyone no I think you would postpone the accepting of them to amend it for a comment I had made and I just I don't know if it made it in there but I it was kind of a mouthful so I I wrote it on here I don't know if if you want it to you had wanted it to make it in into the minutes and I don't think it don't think it had um said that was a different meeting was that a different meeting yeah okay sorry I didn't hear you that was the previous Mee okay so that's that's taken care of you're happy happy okay good um so happy someone will make a motion I move we adjourn no accept I got you almost no I I move we accept the uh meeting minutes from August 19th 2024 wow you didn't even marry on that one great come on second somebody second okay everybody okay all right all in favor accepting the minute say I I okay all right that's done good uh new and old business does uh Larry do you have any new or old business Eric do you have any new or old business no Mary do you have any new or old business yes yes I'm still waiting to hear about the um overdose deaths in Yarmouth um I wondered if Jay had a chance to get those numbers for us I I have reached out I I don't have them um to the Yack group and I'm just waiting for that Mar it's not lost to me and the other one that you asked about was vaccination School immunizations and I don't have that yet right but but I Haven but I'm interested also but I haven't for I haven't forgot those are two requests from the last meeting I just don't have them it um I'm happy to try I mean there's got to be a pediatrician in charge of the health schol it's a nurse I'm sure they're in the process of it now but I can get that I know typically the superintendent and when I've talked to him and I I didn't they're they compliance rate is somewhere around 91% but but to give you a hard and fast number I will get that yeah it would be interesting also you know which vaccinations perhaps that people are not getting um so it be nice I know in the past they've given us a breakdown percentage wise for the different vaccinations I have that great okay and right oh Mary yes the the head School nurses done that I have one other comment um I don't know if I'm getting maybe the originals but we really do I don't think we need to have all of our um paper um documents printed in color I think you can save some money and and not have them all in caller for us anyway that's that's my opinion can I piggyback that with double-sided yeah that'd be great too sure it' be easier to manage all thiso right be great finally you're making some progress in this meeting um anything else I I to that to that point was is why I didn't give the kobia report I I appreciate that thank you for the suggestion and we can certainly follow that Mary do you want to start we could have just meetings quarterly and that may say something also that was that was great though Jay I think that worked out what's that now having to print out that whole thing would have been too much plus it was all legal jges I started to doze off as I started to read it thank you um my head well keep it for all the nights you have trouble falling asleep okay um the anything thing I had was just about I had brought up the point of um you know heat uh advisories to to talk a little bit about um what I meant really was just that should we be sending out text messages or phone uh calls um for heat related issues isues after this summer it's something to certainly think about it just may be telling people the dates when this is happening the temperatures uh the rest of the script for this could be the same um you know basically what precautionary me measures someone should take really simple and what are some of the signs that you made you know uh for heat related illness why you maybe you should seek some medical assistance but keeping it really short a lot easier I think you know Bruce and I wrote scripts for you know covid every week to um this is not going to be that it's really just the dates of when we expect the you know temperatures to go up um and maybe some actual temperatures that's about it so I just wanted to to get people's feelings about it thoughts about it on top of that maybe we can do one for the cold weather coming up too to what do you have in mind H it'll be just a written thing that'll be used that's all on a weekly basis no if there's temperature is going to 98 we should the residents should know that they're in danger how we disseminate that information either text messages uh you have or phone messages and you sign up online for this and the fact that you had pets to that too I see these people walk in these or running these dogs in this hot weather the hot pavement at noon time and it just blows me away that would be that would be part of that typically it's animals being left in cars as they run into the supermarket that becomes a a 20 minute onement yeah see these dogs out there with these heavy coats trying to walk with these people that are barely clad any clothes many clothes on at all and these poor dogs are just trying to keep up I don't know maybe beyond the scope of what you're no we talking no I don't think so I think it's a great point so heat advis we could we could do that I mean typically the cape in other parts of the state they they do cooling centers and they do heating centers but I haven't seen that here but you know the the senior center and the libraries are you know Cooling and and uh and heating uh warming centers but we've kind of passed the season on the on the heat uh that that piece I would guess but we could have a we could have something in place that the board can review yeah really brief and I'm sure you can find it from another town somewhere in the country who was doing this and just you know I did it for years in wer sure okay yeah fine um it's interesting I was working in in the city in Manhattan one of the issues we had was hypothermia people had very low temperatures during these uh s really hot summers and that was because you see a lot of elderly people would not be going out and they would be turning their air conditioners way up and they were present in the ER with very low temperatures in the summer when it was 98 degrees out enough of that anyway just some trivia yeah heat related trivia um any other yes sorry Hill um I I just wanted to comment that um Washington Post had a very interesting article this past week on they used Houston Texas as the example but it talked about heat and how damaging it can be ac across many fronts um particularly to the utilities to the you the Power Systems and all and um one of the comments that was made is that cooling centers going in them for a couple of hours is really not enough um in terms of the the damages that heat can do to your body but I think it's very timely that you brought that up uphill because it was a very interesting article and it basically said no city is really prepared for what this can do so we could start it's interesting I read a article last night was really dealing with some of the effects of climate change of temperatures being getting hotter and hotter um and that it's it's affecting more than just the icebergs it's it's affecting us in every day uh ways for instance and they're finding that the murder rate is up when the temperatures are up salts are up there more people showing up in ERS who have fallen off ladders when it's hot out um in areas where there's not enough air condition school kids aren't performing as well so it's things are changing yep J new old just to let the board uh to be aware that uh on a daily basis we're giving out between 25 probably and 30 covid kits here at uh upstairs in the uh in the main hall we've just ordered is it four 500 uh no four cases four cases each case has 450 in them so they're going through we hope to have we we have the flu Clinic that you know at the end of October we hope we have a um you know an inventory left for that but we're going to get them out people will come they're at our counter they're upstairs they're at the senior center we've delivered them in a couple different locations and the uptick now people are asking for them so just so the board is aware and the community is aware that they are available we have them we've ordered some more we hope to have them also we put them out at voting right I I've made deliveries at a couple of the different voting locations Kings Way and a couple of the other um voting locations um but that so the board understands that the community has a concern because they're going we fill that desk up at the front a front desk daily with probably between 25 and 30 covid kits so um there is some concern and anxiety of that I don't think this a severity that we're seeing but and certainly the protocols CDC has changed the protocols on things but um it's on people's mind and they're concerned about Co so it's too bad the expiration dates are so short on those because they just seem to you know add just add to the landfill I mean there just most of them we just don't even use it's a shame I know that's true they can't figure out if they can't extend that expiration date on those and and with that becomes reliability of of then the individuals start think well I it's a negative or it was a positive but it may be a false positive and uh so that be but that's that's real we' we've struggled with that they put a QR code to extend that that's been difficult to try to message people don't understand they immediately look at the back it expires in July and here we are it's into end of August well no they've extended that three more months and to get that information people immediately do we do with medication all the time we do with our food products you immediately turn it over and say what's the expiration date well they may not read that QR code that said the state has extended that three more months that's been a challenge but the important pie we're getting this out and information and we're getting the kits out they don't need to be here in our office they they're in people's homes and that's what's happening on a daily basis great thank you and then the other part would be I think I heard earlier it's October 7th is going to be the board meeting next okay just a random neuron here uh it's been hot and dry we're getting into Lawn Lawn renovation season where people are redoing a lot of their Lawns um just for people to consider uh organic fertilizing options I think a lot of over application takes place and obviously that's why we have some issues with our water quality in ponds so just a plug for the organic fertilizers there's a lot of good products out there that are relatively inexpensive if you can get us a list of that we'd be more than happy to put it on our sure website sure I I think a lot of the not to name any names with the four step program that we're all familiar with but I I think a lot of over application happens when people just you know I bought the whole bag I'm going to use the whole bag 15 treats 15,000 square feet you know that that's a really that's really an over application even at their recommended rate it's an over application if you follow all the steps so univers I can get you some University Publications with some pretty easy math on them about proper application rate it's really only about one to two pounds of actual nitrogen per thousand square feet per year it's it's pretty low so uh Roger cook from This Old House I don't know if anyone watches This Old House he just passed recently but one of his sayings was uh feed weekly weekly he was talking about house plants but the same concept applies a low nice low dose more frequently is is probably a lot more usable than these these heavy applications um once a year once or twice most of these just go right into right they're just leeched right out they're leashed right out or they're going down the the storm drain at the end of the road you know after a a lot of people they think oh it's going to rain tonight I better reply and then there it goes so it's not it's it's you're really waste they're wasting money unfortunately and causing some pretty serious problems ER want do it again sure I move we adjourn thank you all in favor of joury re say I that's I