[Applause] interesting I thought I saw something here this is King's Way I don't think theor number BRS changed surpris I saw something that said I95 90,000 15,000 last year okay okay okay Scott okay that's they couldn't possibly they're 15 but they only wanted we're only I swear 15 so like we're good to go Mr chairman you ready are you ready Sean you hear us can't hear us I I hear everything you can dick can hear us Sean can you hear us Sean can't hear us Tex oh sorry excuse me folks we're going to get started in one minute so if you could kind of keep it keep it down a little bit I'm gonna log on different that's another way thank you he did it he's gonna log on differently hang on he can hear us we just we're just waiting for our vice chair to find his sound he can hear you so he can okay yes hello in and we have hello Anthony hello so we have everybody but Sean he was there a minute ago I know so we're going to have three three members of the board will be online and two of us will be here in person we appreciate your patience as we work our way through this just want to make sure we had enough to be able to make sure meeting went went uh went forward here he comes the last couple times he did this he had to log in on his phone it didn't work to go in from the PC for some reason I don't know but just got a yeah very much I'm talking about Florida not he he on okay how's everybody doing tonight Sean can you hear me do we have dick yeah I'm here everybody everybody's here we have uh we have used to say not dead yet it's pretty close this time but I'm not still not dead yet nice to see you dick by the way yeah are we uh ready to convene yes we are yes okay have you got some more volume Sean can you you can you hear me no I'll turn up the volume yeah I think we need more volume to to be commanding as the chair you need more volume can you hear me now better that's my volume's all the way up okay that's good as we get okay ready to go whoops can can everyone hear him okay okay good now we lost him again he's muted okay you got me yep yes okay I don't have you I don't know where you went you can see you're showing up in two spots I'm showing up in two spots yeah oh I guess because you're talking that's all right well now we got two dick Martins no whoever speaks was in the middle okay whoever talks gets up there twice okay all right good evening everyone welcome to the March 14 2024 regularly scheduled meeting of the yarma zoning board of appeals my name is Sean AO on the vice chairman we have two four six matters I believe maybe only five matters on our agenda tonight our first matter is petition 4977 King's Way Trust 64 King circuit yort Massachusetts it's in an R40 zoning district and this is the first year review per condition number two for special permit number 4977 dated November 4th 2022 allowing unlimited public play on the Kings wave golf course I believe we have attorney Reed to present tonight yes sir I'm present good evening could you please identify yourself for the record thank you Mr chairman uh attorney David Reed of South yth representing the peti the uh applicant and recipient of the special permit Kings Way trust uh as you indicated this is a first annual review of the conditions of a special permit that you granted on October 27th 2022 that decision uh eliminated the restriction on public play at this private golf course but required us to come back in each of the first three full years of operation for you to review the progress that had been made and and whether or not there were any adverse impacts either upon the site or upon the neighborhood and and the community as a result of the changes I'm pleased to report that from our perspective there have been no adverse effects none that have come to our attention uh we can report to you that in the first year of 20 I the first year of operation of the Spalding sterling sterling golf management company which was 2023 they report to us a total of 15,6 131 rounds of golf having been played uh that includes approximately 45% of those were only nine-hole rounds so if you will half in terms of assessing abilities uh effects uh of the total nine whole and 18 whole rounds 75% of them were played by the public not by members of the Kingsway uh development um prior to coming to you tonight we checked with the armouth police department and I gave you a copy of their response to me uh they indicated no uh adverse reports or complaints or incidents of any kind relative to noise traffic congestion accidents anything that had anything to do with the golf course other than one false alarm of the uh Pro Shops uh security system uh we've had no internal complaints either from public or from residents to the new operation in fact the improved Revenue stream from the new management contract has allowed the trust to reinvest some of the money saved back into the infrastructure and deferred maintenance on the golf course and they're very pleased with the improvements that have been made physically to the uh site removing some dead and dangerous trees among other things uh to improve safety for the people on the golf course as well as for the residents in Kings Way so from our perspective uh we have not become aware of any adverse effects from the changed operations that you authorized a little over a year ago and we're very pleased to report that uh and uh happy to come back and report that to you and hope that we'll have the same or better results in the next two years as well so uh we'd be happy to answer any questions if you have any we have a few people from Kingsway here tonight if there are questions that I can't answer and they can i' be happy to call them forward with that uh I return it back to you I've said all I think I need to say at the moment thank you very much attorney Reed uh Mr NS do you have any questions for the petitioner tonight no I'm I'm happy to hear that it's going so well and I know that there was some there were some issues in the past as to the ability to to transform it into a public course and I think that the uh the the numbers and the and the information that you provided is is informational but it's also nice to see that it's that it's going well and I'm happy to see that what did did the lawsuit that was involved with this did that uh get settled or was it just eliminated I'm not aware of any years ago with I think Davenport yes he had appealed uh I was decision of this board the original decision was appealed and I believe that was dismissed for lack of standing on the applicant I think the company had sold the properties that were the abutters prior to the trial in that case and so I think it just went away okay good that's all I have Mr chairman thank you okay J do you have any questions um just just a couple it sounds like everything's going well which sounds good but as far as the number of rounds go um I thought it says 15,000 is that how much does that change from one year to the next do you know what it was the year before that uh I don't know the exact year before but I think I've got that in my packet but that was our best year was 17% more than 20120 which up until then had been our best year the 17,000 was the high in water mark I thought you said in two in 2020 correct uh no it was less than the 15 that's what I had in previous notes so I just it looked like you may be flat ear didn't increase at all unless maybe it's all just increased by the public and less by the residents just my note here indicates that 2020 it was 9,928 rounds okay 2021 was 7,900 rounds 2021 okay so you've had a substantial increase then with this and the goal is still 20,000 is the target I don't know if if Sterling has change their projections or not does anybody that would be the hope that would be the hope to get up to 20 which is still a great deal less than even the public courses in yarm yeah aware of that yeah I was looking at the numbers from from the armouth courses is over 990,000 so that's you got a long way to go that's two and a half that's two and a half that's two and a half courses but still by I did a little rough math from that uh if you take the 990,000 that they've been dancing around for a couple of years if you if you spread that evenly between two and a half effectively Golf Course uh that's something in the order of 36,000 rounds for an 18 whole course which is still more than double uh what we've done in our best year right okay that's all I had I just wanted to understand how much had changed in the last year that was my biggest question I think thank you but it seems like everything's going well Mr Martin any questions not really pleased to see that the uh course has had some improvements that uh they seem to be dealing well with a greater number of golfers going there and still being able to accommodate them with parking and everything else so I'm uh I'm comfortable okay I have no questions I do have one bit of Correspondence here from uh Susan Brinkerhoff she lives at 20 boxwood Circle yarmouthport Mass she says I've lived at boxwood Circle in Kings Way for 20 years close to the Kings Way golf course my husband and I played golf there for many of those 20 years agent Parkinson's disease has made that too difficult for us from walking around the golf course with my dog down hakam when the course was open and on the card paths in the winter when it was closed I feel that the current management team has done a terrific job of upgrading the course traffic and noise never seemed to be a problem I hope the Yama zoning board of appeals will approve the special permit and that the Kingsway Golf Course will be allowed to continue to have unlimited play that's all the correspond I have um I don't think we really need any input from the public unless anybody wants to hear from the public do Anthony have something oh Anthony I didn't even see you I beg your pardon Anthony where are you I can't see you Sean we also have someone in the public who would like to talk too so uh in a moment Jay yep uh Anthony do you have any questions for the petitioner I don't have any questions it's it appears that they're doing well uh financially and and under the terms of the special per so that's great okay very good thank you and I do apologize okay uh we since we have some people that want to be heard uh is there anybody that wishes to be heard in favor of this petition if so come to the microphone NOP no no no one is there anybody who wishes to be heard in opposition of this petition either come to the microphone if we have somebody on Zoom we have several so we have a couple coming up okay y y so my name is David obuchowski I live at 62 hackham road so I'm on a butter to uh Kingsway um we have I have some of my my neighbors here with me um first of all I want to say we we want kings way to be successful we want them to be financially successful we think it's an asset to the community uh and to the neighborhood but there are some things uh some items here and I have a list that I can um provide to you a document um of things that are troubling us as a Butters and as of neighbors so I'll just I'll read them out to you something you'd like to submit also yeah I can I can submit you hold on wait wait wait wait we're not going to submit anything just yet does this have to do with the rounds of play at Kings Way sir uh indirectly I would say well what what is this because we we've already had a hearing on this this is a review regarding the unlimited rounds of play of golf is that it's what you going to speak what I'm saying is if maybe the unlimited rounds of play have affected how Kings Way is treating their neighbors and how they're taking care of the property the abutters and how it's affecting the abutters why don't you just let me go over these and then we you can decide if it okay go ahead Rel it to the rounds of play okay and go ahead none of these are none of these should be new to some to to some of the leadership at Kingsway aam road every time there's a a decent rain the water comes out of King's Way and washes 2 3 4 6 8 Ines of sand into our road and then the town either comes and cleans it up or we have to clean it up that's consistent they haven't they haven't fixed it their solution is just to put more sand okay um you you you got you should be well aware that the other end of other end of haw Road there the road was washed out down there 8 to 10 ft deep when we had that good rain so the point to that is Kings Way is not controlling their water that comes off the comes off the property it's going on both sides of hawen of Road um a lot of pesticides were applied last summer to kill vegetation uh up and down the the um herbicides the road to the ancient way um there was a very strong chemical smell you could see the the plants were dying we would have liked to have just known if it was dangerous or not cuz we walk up and down the ancient way we take our dogs up and down the ancient way we didn't get any communication about that so that would have been uh what a good neighbor would have done um recently uh within the last couple of weeks one of one of our people on hackam Rome came home and found one of the worker trucks in his driveway and they were cutting down trees at the at the border at the borderline at the at the property line so that's another case where we would have liked to have someone asked permission hey can I park in your driveway while I cut down some trees on the Kings Way property um personally I live right off the um ninth hole ninth te and part of that tea is on my land I've had it surveyed I've brought that to attention of Kingsway a couple couple three times um we haven't come to a conclusion of what we should do about that whether we should put up trees a fence or or what we should do but that needs to be resolved um I'd like to get that resolved um again we're in favor of the of the golf course we just want them to be better neighbors to the to the abutters based on these items I've listed and I think we have some we have some pictures and things if you want to see them about what we're talking about the sand going into haenam and trees being cut down and things like that questions for me sir sir no no questions I I just have a comment and and just so everybody understands why we're here tonight we're here tonight to review a special permit that was granted a year ago for unlimited play on the golf course at Kings Way any issues regarding the Kings Way property or hwam road or or t- boxes on private property has nothing to do with this hearing if you have a problem with the unlimited play if it's somehow adversely affecting you then please come up and speak but we don't want to hear about other issues regarding King's Way that's not the subject of this hearing tonight thank you for your discussion there what Forum would we in what Forum would we present our our issues well the first place i' probably suggest is to speak to IR ly with King's Way but we're the zoning board of appeals we only hear appeals for special permits and variances this is regarding a special permit in the last one was granted and this is only a one-year review to see how the unlimited golf play is doing it has nothing to do with other things I appreciate everything you've said but it really is not our purview to even address that well okay we we we feel if they can't handle these things that I mentioned surrounding their property then how are they going to handle unlimited golf they're one and the same it's the running of a golf course and the and the property in the ABS that's part of it sir we heard your comments thank you very much okay now does anyone else have anything comments regarding the unlimited play of golf at Kings W if if you do please come to the microphone well we have two more just come up to the microphone please um just regarding my question um name where you're from Brad conut hi uh three Conservation Drive I'm one of the abuts to Kings Way um with regards to the unlimited play does this also go hand inand with the new management company that is has taken over to allow for unlimited play is that yes okay so um the management being the management of the grounds is that correct I I I I I don't know they manag the golf course sir golf course yeah I don't I don't know what I don't know what grounds you're talking about what grounds are you talking about the golf course yeah are you is your is your question regarding the golf course correct what part of the golf course the unlimited play and how if we're talking about the unlimited play does this also involve the course management or we just talking about how many rounds we're doing I guess is my question this this is a onee review to see if the unlimited play that we granted a year ago is working or if it's had some adverse impact okay this has something to do about the management of the Kings Way Association or the condominiums in any way this is not the perview for this hearing correct so I am talking about the golf course and the um added people that have been uh playing more rounds um okay and including um we have two tea boxes that are abutted right up to uh hakam and basically conservation land where I can see uh the tea boxes and having um heard the discussions that go on on t- boxes as we all have had playing golf um there are quite a lot of foul language happening um there's quite a bit of litter happening now um that are being thrown into private property beer cans um pardon the word but dude wipes um there's been people urinating onto private property um leading up a driveway with a neighbor that has a young daughter um there have been quite a few instances where the respect has not been given to the ABD and um I think directly correlating to the unlimited amount of play it would be nice if uh they could put up a fence or somehow block the obstruction of people either littering onto private property um urinating onto private property or at least cursing um and disturbing the neighborhood um okay have you have you taken this up with the Kings may have you called the clubhouse and talked to them about that no but I believe that that what's this hearing is for is it correct well well sir we don't run Kings Way golf course if I Liv to Kings Way and I had that problem I pick up the telephone and call the Pro Shop not come to the zoning board of appeals that's what I would suggest that you do regarding those problems so uh what is this meeting for then this meeting is to review a special permit that we granted one year ago for unlimited play what you're talking about could concern limited one person playing the course or a thousand people playing the course this hasn't happened before this uh has been approved but you but you haven't called the prf to complain is that correct I came to this meeting where I got received a letter in the mails talking about the abuts if they have an issue to come talk about it okay I'm I know what well okay well let me reiterate it this is the zoning Board of de S I would suggest that you call the clubhouse and make your complaint and maybe they'll address it that's the way you got to do it we don't have the authority to tell people not to litter or to urinate or whatever they're doing on somebody else's property if I saw somebody urinating on my property I'd call the police I'm just letting you know what's happening when we have more rounds that's all that's all I'm just trying to share with you and thank you for your time thank you very much for your time anyone else please come to the microphone Sean just a second I I think some of that is pertinent well I didn't hear the number of people I didn't hear in any dates I didn't hear I I didn't have enough specificity on that so I think the best thing to do is to call the clubhouse who's next hi my name is John jablonsky I live at six Conservation Drive for the last 20 years I directly abut the fourth T box at Kings Way third bot thank you honey my wife and my kids we live there and good evening and as as far as you know this sounding like complaining neighbors that's not what we're doing you're not understanding the fact that the number of rounds played is a direct correlation to a lot of these things that are happening as a result of that they're cutting back foliage okay to make their their Fairways more pristine more direct no overhangs easier to play I'm the person who came home to find King's Way in my yard cutting trees down into my yard pulling the trees that were leaning onto their Fairway and their t- box into my yard without permission without any notice okay and as far as as no lawsuits go and everything's going great the other end of hackam road that by the way the town of Yarmouth had to bring in 14 truck loads 10-wheeler truckloads of dirt to fill in Sam croll has a lawsuit with Kingsway regarding their their mitigation of their storm water Kingsway storm water plan is to deflect their storm water to everybody else they dig trenches from from the third Fairway into my yard I have pictures and videos of it draining their water from the corner of their Fairway into my yard I come home from work I have to pick up all the dirt in the in the road and put it back in my driveway from it being flooded out because they have a mitigation problem and it's only going to get worse the responsible thing would be to to to face it headon now because either the EPA is not going to be happy with the amount of debris that got washed into the marsh this can't be washing into a watershed property happens all the time or the Department of Environmental Protection someone's going to hold somebody responsible here and before it gets out of control it needs needs to be addressed it's an ongoing problem and it's only gotten worse that's the only thing that we're trying to say we've talked to the town we've talk to King's Way everything falls on deaf ears nobody wants to deal with it no everybody throws their hands up in the air and I don't blame him it's a big deal it's a big responsibility but but God forbid where would we be where would I be right now if I was cutting my trees into King's Way I had my tractor over there and pulling trees down off my property and dragging them into their their yard and then taking care of it come ask me we're I I've lived there 20 years I'm not a bad neighbor I'm not trying to be a bad neighbor I don't want to put up no trespassing signs cuz people are looking for their golf balls in my yard or peeing in my yard or wiping themselves in my yard because it happens all the time I don't want to call the police I've talked to countless people down there on the golf course in the clubhouse on the phone no one wants to listen it's a big deal to to us that live there I understand that's all we're trying to say no one wants you not to have you could have 30,000 rounds there we don't care but we live there we live there too we need to be respected as small as we are we should have the same rights I'm not asking to have a thousand people over my house every day if I was I'd put up a fence or do something a little bit different thank you for your time I appreciate your consideration have plenty of pictures to show you could happy to provide some videos but this is like we're here because we're desperate we've talked to a lot of people whether anybody wants to admit to that or not there have been police down there it's not hunky dory thank you very much thank you one more person Sean there's a couple of more to Sean that's fine hi there uh Kayla jonski six Conservation Drive that was my husband who just spoke um I'm sure most of you are parents in here you have children they're probably grown we have young children and and to see people pulling out their privates on The Fairway and exposing themselves to our children is completely unacceptable and this is an it it's gotten exponentially worse especially now they just took down all the trees so there's no blockage between our yard and the third hole T whatever that I don't play golf I don't know um I'm not okay with that and we like my husband said we have called King's Way we have talked the grounds keeper the grounds keeper is vicious rude awful and has just complete disrespect for anything that anyone has to say do you think some signage from either the property owners or King's Way would help no or like protect the the rights of private Property Owners abing the course or something like that no they just took down all the all the all anything that was blocking our home from their property is now gone there should be and same thing with our neighbor like there should be some I I don't want to get into this but I think that you know any any neighbor has a right to chop down a tree but I or you know so if it's on their property if it's on your property that's another issue but uh Sean there's there's a there's a gentleman I believe from King's Way that wants to speak too when this lady's done and that's perfectly fine he may speak he's speaking right now and I can't concentrate because he's rebutting what I'm trying to say honest to goodness it has become exponentially worse and again as my husband said we want to be good neighbors we are good neighbors I shouldn't show up at my home and have strangers in my driveway on my property cutting down trees and removing trees that's not acceptable people shouldn't be exposing thems to my daughters that is not acceptable okay ma'am you is there anything else you want to add you've already covered that I'm done thank you thank you anyone else did you do you have something to yes please identify yourself yes I'm Pete Mar ell I'm chairman of the Kings Way trust um back last year in the midst of our change of uh MGM distilling golf management uh the gentleman that was up here speaking uh cut a tree down onto our te right well I came back from Myrtle Beach to find a tree on the third te that took me 3 hours to clean up all right I went out there my myself cuz no one was out there to do it it was going to hurt the tea so I went out there myself and spent 3 hours of my time the gentleman came over to me as I was doing it and we talked about the tree that was just taken down he wanted that tree down and I said we will cut that tree down if you clean up the vines around it and that's the deal I made with him and if he okay would you like to go to court you never said that to me okay that's okay sir just directed to us please but that's what happened sir okay so they can complain about the trees being cut down I cut them down as honoring my statement to him and he cut the original tree down if he didn't cut it down we didn't cut it down it was on the tea and I had to clean it down no no no we cut we cut as a beautiful vacation club we cut over 200 trees down in that property because there were damaged there were High SES and they were dangerous okay and when I came back from Myrtle Beach and that tree was down I had to clean it up and and he came over to me that's all I can tell you he came over to me and we had an agreement that's it thank you all right thank you very much you're welcome anyone else nobody else okay is there anything else that you'd like to add at this time attorney Reed uh only that I'm surprised that these uh reports uh I I don't know why they weren't brought to our attention apparently they weren't although the some of the speakers said they had tried uh I've certainly made a list of their complaints and I'll address all of them with the uh trust to to address any that are in fact our responsibility and can be addressed between now and our next review all right well thank you very much okay I think what we're going to do now is close the hearing to the public and believe and begin board Del liation this is on for a uh one-year review uh any comments I'd like to make I'd like to make one if I could um when we went through this process um Kings Way did tell us that they were going to be Outsourcing to a new management company um and the intent was to be able to I think run it more efficiently and uh um also to raise the amount of play that they were going to have um and I think some of the comments that were made today do represent volume so um I'd like to in addition to have a one-year review next year I'd like to hear more about what has been done to try to eliminate some of the issues which have been brought up by The Neighborhood because volume does make a difference um in my in my opinion so if uh if it's if it's something that continues I think then there's a question as to whether or not volume is worth is worthy um but that's my comment okay dick what are your thoughts uh that sounds good to me actually I think it um you know line that up for for next year and if there's still complaints from director Butters especially about cutting trees even on Golf Course land um that that be dealt with but I but I think we're a little off case here in terms of what we're supposed to be discussing okay Anthony what are your thoughts um yeah I I think it's outside the bounds of what we're looking at they're private concerns and we take them seriously and we understand the necessity to raise them but I don't think it's appropriate for the special permit one-year review and I'm happy where we are in terms of our review okay thank you and uh Mr NS your thoughts um I have I have sympathy for the for the neighbors have enduring this these problems I think um anytime the the public is backed up to private residences that's that's an issue but I think the the the most Grievous issue that I see is this um water issue and this and the sand constantly flowing into this into the surrounding street from from the golf course and and that's something that really needs to be be addressed and I'm I I you know this kind of kind of yells a lawsuit to me but I you know I don't think anybody wants to go down that road but I don't think particularly that issue has anything to do with the increased volume that might have occurred because of the special permit that was granted uh for public use of the course but it certainly brings it to light and I would I would um I'd agree with the the concept of of raising these issues at their next review and if there's not significant Improvement that it might affect our decision uh as to whether or not we continue to have the public play there but I think um the trustees have to understand that when they when they AB Butters are complaining and take the time to come out and express their views it may not be appropriate to the extension of the special permit but it certainly makes an impression on the board uh for uh continued uh support for special reviews of the of the project so um I I think I think we accomplished a lot and I I thank everybody for coming out to give their input to us thank you thank you okay well Sean just one other thing just if I could make one more comment I just would suggest that possibly within the next year that uh maybe what Kings Way can do is set up a a process where neighbors could communicate and not have information get lost cost um that would certainly make a lot a lot of sense sounds like a point of contact would be appropriate but that's just a suggestion okay well this is my thoughts and I appreciate what everybody said uh as far as speakers are concerned however I think we need to come back to what's on point here and what's on point is did the increase into to unlimited play somehow adverse affect the residents of Kings Way and or the surrounding neighborhood of zoning District okay that could be traffic on and off 6A all right uh I didn't hear anything tonight to suggest that or to support that I heard complaints about golfers doing whatever they're doing but that happens on golf courses all the time doesn't matter what golf course I didn't hear any any examples of increased play being the reason for those we're here tonight for a one-year review the public has been playing on King's Way for a long time we just allowed them to increase the number of golfers to play we're here for a one-year review to see if there's been any adverse effect as a result of that and I didn't hear it I personally don't think we need any more reviews of this we usually bring him back for a one-year review and if everything's okay what I heard tonight well really had to do with you know someone getting a tree cut down I mean there was that tree issue we heard that and then we heard you know people throwing garbage or you know urinating in someone's yard or what have you I mean there's other remedies for that that don't necessarily involve this board I don't think we have any jurisdiction or authority to regulate what we've heard tonight now if someone said you know you got 35 people backed up on the third tea yelling and screaming all day and I can't get any sleep or I can't get any peace and quiet that might be an example of the increased play being looked at but I didn't hear anything I didn't hear any specifics about the result of increased play having any type of an adverse effect at King's Way so I would suggest that things are running f in that regard again if there are issues with the residents who live at Kings Way relative to the golf course they have another remedy for that they can go to their Association they can call the Pro Shop they can meet with management they have remedies their Association can go to the golf course and talk to them that's the way to handle it not through the zoning board of appeals so I would suggest that we take a vote as to whether they are in compliance with their uh special permit and other than that I don't think we need another either yes or no and I don't think we need another oneyear review so I'll listen to others on that so why don't we talk about that for three years they review yeah um I I think the special permit has a three-year review process yeah um for annual reviews yeah and I I would make a mo I see I'm sorry I I I stand corrected I didn't realize that I didn't I didn't see that so if we have years correct okay that's fine then we why don't we just will'll have another review next year unless someone has anything else they want to add um Anthony yeah I was just gonna say I was I I share in your opinion Sean um and hearing from the board that I I think that we required a three-year period of review as to the this I would uh put forward a motion that they've complied with the special permit conditions and that I would move to amend the special permit not to require the next two years second sh discussion on the motion second Jay we got a motion dick is the second okay so right now what we have is we have a motion um hold hold on here just one second can we discuss the motion yeah uh we're GNA discuss that yeah I wasn't uh so what we have is we have a special permit that was granted that required three one-year reviews we have had the first uh a motion was made by Anthony to that the King's Way is in compliance with a special permit and he wants to now not require them to come back for the other two reviews oh I didn't understand that in the motion either is that not what you said Anthony that is what I said yeah yes that's what's the motion I retract my second then okay okay okay all right um I'll tell you what um what what is the uh board's thoughts on maybe we just keep the uh the three annual reviews because you never know something might happen between now and then okay Sean just just as I have to express my concern the bottom line is when we went through this last year the whole idea was that Kingsway was bringing in a new management company and that's the reason for the three-year review the three-year review was to see how it progressed and how well it was going to be managed as far as the volume was concerned okay so what I'm hearing is there are are some issues so I think we should continue to hear what's going on because if if the management company can't manage the course right then they can't manage more volume and I'd like to hear more in future years about how that works okay and I think it's good to have King's Way on notice that yes the the annual review will continue and if we keep hearing complaints of the type that we heard tonight that U they've got to talk to their management people straighten out the management of the Butters and it isn't it isn't the areas that you you know that were brought up about the wash off because there's nothing we can do about that but the volume of play if it's causing more issues if the management company is not doing their job then I do think there's issues okay and I would suggest anybody that has a problem with with golfers put up some signage of your own and tell them that there's there's a camera on in on the property you might not see so many exposures if they knew they were being filmed well okay je what are your thoughts uh I agree with Jay and I think I think it makes sense under the circumstances especially with the abutter um complaints that we hear it again in 3 years and then hopefully during that time we won't need to hear any more butter butter complaints and uh I I I think staying where we are with that is good I think okay excuse me I caught a cold Jo bear with me too much sun yeah all right so we have a motion to continue or somebody give me another motion the first one didn't carry I'd like to make a motion that we continue the reviews for the remainder of the three years on an annual basis and um look forward to hearing back on progress next year okay do I have a second for that motion second all right any discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I hi hi hi that carries unanimously uh Dolores could we have a date a year from now I'm sorry Mr chairman I do not have a 2025 diary but I will follow up with them just like I did for this year okay that's fine we'll get inch of next year yeah we'll get a one-year date and we will uh we'll have this review again I would just say to the people who have the concerns that spoke tonight to contact your homeowners association and have the homeowners association contact the clubhouse the management company who's ever in charge over there see if you can work those things out okay we look forward to seeing everybody here next year thank you very much thank you thank you all for coming thank you um thank you guys I I could I just give these to you so you can just take a look at what the pictures are and the um that would be folks we got we have to keep our meeting going so if you could take it out into the Hall is coming up' okay okay Sean sorry about that that was easy all right our next petition is petition number 5090 sandala Customs property located at one Denise Lane South Yarmouth Mass it's in an R40 zoning District the applicant seeks a special permit per 103 4.3.2 and a variance from 203.50 for front setback relief to construct a 22x 17 Edition on a pre-existing non-conforming structure we have the petitioner present hi good evening good evening good evening Miss Steve babola from sandala Customs representing the Kings how are you this evening good nice to see you sir could you tell us a little bit about your petition uh so we are seeking relief um for what would be the sidey yard setback right sidey yard setback um if it were not a corner lot so MH uh what we have is is uh just you know your typical small uh Ranch uh located on the corner and it because it's on the corner lot it falls into the two 30 foot setback rules so um by the zoning bylaw there is a averaging um mathematical equation where you can utilize the two immediate abutters and you can adjust out your setback so we utilize that particular U method and uh by doing this so we got to 23.6 ft allowable asite through the zoning bylaw on this particular um on this particular project now that would allow um the proposed project to expand uh 14 ft and the proposed expansion is 17 ft toward that side yard so uh what we're doing is we're we're seeking relief for an additional 3T um okay now there's a couple of things um I think that pertained to uh being able to um award this relief uh and one of them is specifically that if we were to do the expansion toward the Street um when I say toward the street toward Denise Lane the implication there is that we would have to relocate the existing septic system which would cause a substantial financial hardship for the owner to get that expansion um and then number two um it's would the expansion be more detrimental to the neighborhood so um in the plan uh where we use the averaging meth the uh number two Lor's Lane currently at the closest corner is 17.95 ft to the Susan uh I'm not sure that that averaging applies to Corners well I had a meeting U with the Building Commissioner and uh that's what we discussed matter of fact that was the method that Mark gr said to utilize really do you know what particular what part of the bylaw he quoted it's never come up here before that I'm aware of this is the way I was directed in the meeting um we do have setback averaging yeah but that's what you do you I mean it it depends what where where you well regardless okay so go ahead Steve I'm sorry that's okay so um uh as I was saying number two Lor's Lane um currently is a 17.95 uh foot setback uh from the Sharon Road side which is where we're trying to uh utilize the expansion for the Denise Lane property um so I propose that it would be less detrimental than the home right next door which currently has approximately an 18t setback um we would be looking for a 20 uh. 76 foot setback based on the expans proposed okay all right okay so you're required to have you're required to have 30 you're on a corner lot the parking's going to be on the side where the uh the 20 is according to your plan I believe our bylaw allows you to come in to 25 If your parking's going to be on that side we we do have a history of dealing with cornal lots um okay just uh what anything else you want to add at this time Steve yes sir uh if I could just point out that the driveway is currently existing um where it is and there's no um there's no change proposed to the driveway location okay okay okay sure all right there a parking area uh on Sharon Sharon Road Anthony do you have any questions I don't at this time I'll defer to the board for questioning on this one okay uh dick Martin questions um no real questions it's obvious what's trying to be done here uh 10 ft or so from the Side Road is less than I'd like to see but it's a small lot and I know there's no other option it's not a tremendously large addition they moving or removing the shed um you know um I I could be I could be comfortable with it okay going a lots of tough y yeah Jay um well I think I went by today and the shed is gone already I guess it's certainly not there excuse me sir the shed is already gone uh I I'm not sure if they've already removed it I know that the owner had planned to get it removed in anticipation of it wasn't there today when I drove by so and it's it's a gravel parking area so yes on the side is where you're trying to do this I I I could see going to 25 ft because of the corner line but I'd be uncomfortable going beyond that I I don't have any questions okay uh dick NS um I I know this has been a Perpetual problem for corner lot owners that you know need to have that 30 foot setback this is a small lot it's I think 7,500 Square ft correct and they're they're they're really restricted and and it is a small house it's a you know only I think less than a th000 square ft so I can understand that in today's Marketplace and and uh society's place you know that's a that's a pretty small house so I I can understand the need for the space is there is there is there any way you could to to cut back on the on the on the encroachment on Sharon to go out a little bit in or is that the septic system out where that driveway is now I can't tell on this plan that's that's correct so um when you when you're looking at uh the plan y um you'll see that there is uh some blue outline yep okay so that's the leeching field right out right in front of the proposed Edition and then if you move toward the front yard of the actual home that exists uh where the jog is for the porch um that's where the uh actual tank is the 1500 galon tank so expansion in that direction while we could meet the zoning bylaw um would create a hardship for them financially to have to change their entire septic system to meet that and you know secondly as I mentioned um number two Lor's Lane which is the direct the butter right behind them um they are at 17.95 FT from the road and we're not asking you know for the 18t we're closer to 21 foot on the setback so it wouldn't be it wouldn't be neighbor has is irrelevant uh as far as I'm concerned I I think we're uh I think we need to be as as compliant as we can be but I I can understand the restrictions of the of the septic system and then you the same issues of setback are going to be forced if you go even Beyond where the septic tank is and go out there and what what what's the use of this room is it bedroom or is it family room or no it's it's specifically for family room space family room it consists of one large open room okay that with a half bathroom it's more like a living room because the the living current living room inside that house is like a postage stamp okay and they have you know they have children and they bought it as a uh as a home that they want to retire to so second home for now and then retirement later that's correct okay okay that's all I have Mr chairman I think okay uh is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition if so please come to the microphone seeing none does anybody in the audience that wishes to speak in opposition to this petition please come to the microphone seeing none Steve is there anything else you'd like to add at this time uh just to point out a couple couple of very um you know small items the you know an average uh lot coverage is allowable as like 25% um this the footprint on this particular home is about 1,200 um uh I'm sorry is about 12% um so it's well under the allowable uh footprint coverage on the lot um it's a very small home for a family um that currently has two children may have may have a third um and you know we believe that this is a modest expansion simply for family room area we're not trying to increase the bedroom count or um anything like that is that front deck staying porch the P what's called porch What's called the porch yes that would that would remain sir so that stays but it's not identified in the proposed uh condition as putting porch on it like it was on the other one and is that rear lot line um set back for the deck zero or next to zero uh I'm sorry the uh the P oh the deck um sure look well that looks like to to me it looks like a current condition I understand that I'm just looking at the overall picture yeah no I I understand and um I haven't been out there recently to survey you know this has been it looks like it's maybe a foot off the lot line which is potentially no I don't think any building inspector would ever give a permit for for a deck that was on the lot line like that well we we know that over the years a number of questionable things happen on many properties and you know we're doing our best to try to any further relief either this is true so maybe there's a concession that could be made okay I I didn't build the deck but we're we're trying to you know we're trying to conform to the regulations as much as possible possible with with you know being somewhat reasonable to the homeowners to utilize their property why you suggesting that they'd remove the deck to mitigate the uh encroachment for the new family room sounds good question you I didn't ask that question he he did yeah I just pointed out that it was uh practically zero lot line setback for the for their existing deck MH oh yeah right it's kind of strange to have a freestanding deck way out in the corner anyways doesn't attach to the house or anything would seem to be something that might be able to be forone in Li of relief on the addition is that something the board would entertain I couldn't understand I'm sorry uh I was just saying that the the deck looks like it's not connected to the house um as you said it's by the lot lines doesn't even seem to be by the bedrooms uh so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense here anyways I have a feeling it's pretty old deck and uh if that could be removed that would certainly bring other things more in Conformity and would be a good um a good uh balance to require removal of that if we're going to give a relief on the addition Steve is that something you think your uh homeowner would consider is removing that deck yeah so um I can't give a definitive yes at the moment because obviously I have to consult with the homeowner they just purchased it so obviously the dec was pre-existing now if there were a potential um conditional approval upon that I can certainly um approach them with that and then you know obviously it would be a conditional approval okay well I'm just I'm just throwing that out there I'm not really sure how the board feels about that we could we could poll the board it seems right now that you have one vote against you Jay doesn't not seem to support this petition where it uh where the addition is located um Sean help me out because I I I don't think we've gone we don't usually give I mean going the even the five feet to get it to 25 that's usually about the most we ever want to do because we can because it's a corner lot this is this is taking it you know pretty much well beyond that and the house could go up up instead of out I mean that's another option if they really need to space I wanted the space that's true so I'm I'm looking at it to try to be consistent with what we've done in the past no I agree I agree I mean it is difficult with cor a lots you know you got two you got two fronts and two sides yep and so you know it's very very tough even whether you got a big lot to meet your 30 foot setbacks if this was a side setback you know it'd be 20 ft you'd be all set and and an argument can be made that the house faces Denise Lane and this should be considered a side setback but we are on a corner lot we do need to have some consistency it's almost 21 feet does the board feel that that's too much relief to Grant or is that reasonable on this corner lot in this particular in place right here that's what we're grappling with right now and if so with the removal of that deck that's clearly encroaching on that boundary line I mean you're pre you're basically in your neighbor's yard I'm I'm surp I'm looking at this which someone put a stamp on it but this thing is right up against not only the what is normally the rear lot line but the other side Lot line as well so I mean it's so if that deck were removed would the board feel that that's enough mitigation to eliminate a clear nonconformity so that we could Grant the relief for the addition and of course we don't have the the owners uh permission to I mean we could make it a we could we could we don't need we we don't need the owner's permission we could give them a special permit conditioned on them removing the debt we could do that we don't have to we don't need their permission to have our decision no we could do that on our own so let me ask the board this I'll poll the board would that be enough of a mitigation to eliminate that deck which is clearly non-conforming um to allow them to have a almost a 21t setback back on that front setback on Sharon Road for their addition that's the question Jay what do you think it to me it's two separate issues I mean the deck probably shouldn't even be there right so you know as far as granting relief to take away something that doesn't belong I just don't feel very comfortable with that well we do that we've done that in the past just so you know just just I know but we we have I feel like going to 25 ft is a substantial substantial uh um variance so going beyond that I'm uncomfortable with it but if you go 25 ft what does the make the width of that room I'm sorry sir if we made the setback from the street 25 what does it make the width of that room uh that knocks it down by four so now you're down to 13 ft 13 by 13 by there's no dimension on this so it's hard to read so 13 uh coming from the right side of the existing house toward Sharon Road the the depth um the depth of the room is uh is inconsequential because it that makes the um that doesn't uh further encroach on the rear set back front understand how big the room is right exactly it it is consequential because we want to know how big that room is going to be what's the width I mean usually a plan shows length and width on it this doesn't so I apologize because it was not our we generally use BSC um for our engineering and this was provided to us for this purpose uh I I believe it's I I the pertinent measurement that um where 17 foot width and in terms of the depth uh I believe it's 22 feet and if you notice in the front right corner there's a little cutout yeah which takes that rectangular uh shape away and you know part of that was um in consideration to get to that 20 point uh 76 foot setback but what if you take if you just make everything even with what that cutout is right now what's the distance to the side yard about 13 ft is what would become the width of the room rather than the 17 I um so 13 it's got to be 13 by it's kind of a becomes a very long narrow 26 Corridor style what's the depth from the frontage from the front back what's the if it's 22 ft 22 correct okay except where that jog is yes sir is that part of the reason that cutout was done as well is because of the 20 foot buffer that you have to have to the edge of the leeching field so that's another I see you so yep you know and that's um I understand what you're saying about you could go up um that's also um a less cost effective method because you have to shave the roof off and then you have to create a second floor floor frame and then go up understand and I'm just you know I was reading the zoning bylaws and it talks about granting of a variance based on a few items uh lot shape topography cost detriment and uh detriment on the neighborhood so I feel that in in terms of the cost detriment and then in terms of the detriment to the neighborhood especially with like the initial example of a house right next door which is much closer to the side Lot line um I think those two uh points give you the ability to to um have a little bit of leniency going to I'm giving I'm giving five feet of leniency by going to 25 so that's what I'm comfortable with well and I will point out once more that the Building Commissioner said we can use the averaging method for this which would get us to 23.6 five so I'm not sure made my point you know who's right and who's wrong just waiting for the chairman to come y I'm back had to get a cop drop sorry okay well I think we need to move this question along we have a anybody prepared to make a motion uh I I have a question um do we need do we need with only four members do do we need a unanimous decision we have five we have five we have five oh we have five sorry you may not have five positive but you have five and do we need aous decision you need at least four you need at least four out of five tonight St sounds like you got a problem with Jay so not a not a problem just a disagreement now I think in terms of the VAR I'm not quite sure you have variance criteria because right I think the second element you may fail on that the hardship is O to the shape of the lot topography or the soil conditions and it's not really to any of those three yeah I agree that that does not apply yeah now special permit um let me ask now I already heard from Jay I didn't hear from anybody else would anybody support a motion to Grant the special permit as requested if they remove the deck that's clearly in violation of the setbacks I I would okay dick you would y Anthony what are your thoughts um well I haven't spoke spoken about either of the variants or special permit but in terms of a variance I agree with you it it I don't think it meets that second uh hardship characteristic uh owing to those related to soil topography and structure as well I don't think it relates in terms of special permit I'm with Jay in in the sense that I I wouldn't be comfortable conditioning it upon something that uh is a pre-existing non-conformity as we sit here presently uh should the deck be there no it's not within our um our our our ideal uh form of what we have the bylaws for in the setback however it's as we see it likely a pre-existing non-conformity uh the mitigating usually doesn't go towards uh removal of a pre-existing nonconformity if they're willing to do that it's helpful but I I wouldn't make it conditional um I'm I'm not comfortable making that ruling in terms of whether or not we'd gr a special permit it's another story but special permit with that condition I I wouldn't be comfortable with okay while I have you while I have you here what are your thoughts about granting the special permit as requested without the deck at all yeah uh for for that purpose I would be uh in favor of and I'd be comfortable with um I think it's in harmony with you know it's a lower threshold than the variance I think it meets the criteria it's in harmony with the general neighborhood I drove around to to see where the property was and see how it would locate next to the rest of the residents there in properties and I think it's in general Harmony and you I would be in favor of it in that sense okay all right how about you Mr NS what are your thoughts well I'm I'm just conferring with um Jay a bit to to get consensus but I I I I think I would um I think I'll go ahead and make the motion Mr chairman if it's okay with you that um go ahead that I I'd be willing to to make the motion for a 25 foot setback from Sharon Road which will make the the width like 13 and the depth like 22 and also make it conditioned upon the removal of that deck that doesn't have any Conformity to any bylaw that's ever been in the town okay I'll second that so yes seconding that Anthony it was Dick no dick oh dick dick okay all right okay so we have a well first off let me let me just point something out to people in the bylaw here right um section 202 3.5 sub paragraph X Corner lots are considered to have two front yard setbacks two side yard setbacks the front yard setback for Corner Lots may be reduced to 25 ft to accommodate parking in the rear or side of the building they're doing that right now so really if you're going to reduce it to 25 ft um he can he should be able to get relief on that alone without removing his deck if he goes back to 25 and that's where his parking is and that's what it shows on the plan so I'm not quite sure that he even has to take that deck out but well I think when the Building Commissioner gets on site he might notice it well he may I mean that that's another issue yeah that's true I'm sure nobody gave a a bid building permit for that but um okay well you have a motion can motion is we don't have a second yet I don't wait a second on we got this closed off here now we're we're doing motion so it's closed to the public and the petitioner so right right now we have a motion made by dick to Grant the special permit as long as he's no more than 2 feet closer to that lot line and he has to remove that deck that's the motion is there a second there was a second Anthony was it dick was a second I I second okay any discussion on the motion okay all those in favor please signify by saying I I I those opposed uh I'll oppose Anthony's opposed so is it four to one I believe so order one that carries anybody else prepared to make any other motions I I just would question you uh Sean if you if you if you would if if if he could do that as a matter of right does he have to comp comply with the board's decision or can he just apply for the building permit without it it still requires I think he can apply for the building permit without it and it be shown as parkings over there can I can he can take that up with he can take that up with the Building Commissioner but either way we can grant a relief on that can I ask one more one more question St hold on hold on a minute hold on a minute Steve hold on hold on okay so we have a motion that passed 4 to one anybody prepared to uh make a motion regarding the variance relief uh it may be up to the applicant if if they doesn't feel that there's a strength there for it to withdraw it well he can request it Steve do you want to do you want to request to withdraw the relief for a variance without prejudice uh yes at this point I think I would okay all right we have a motion to Rel to withdraw the request for variance without prejudice we have a motion so have second all those in favor please signify by saying I I hi any opposed hearing none that carries five nothing okay anybody else prepared to make any further motions regarding special permits it's come up a lot really would it be I asked this of you uh Sean would it be redundant for me to make a special uh for me to make a motion for a special permit without the condition since we already have approval of special permit sure um well we just approved a motion we we could approve a number of motions actually we can do that so yeah I would I would make a motion to approve the special permit without the condition of removal of the deck but the setback would be no less than 25 ft correct okay we have a motion made by Anthony to Grant the special permit that the should be no closer to the front lot line than 25 ft the front lot line on Sharon Road the front lot line on Sharon Road no le no less than 25 feet is there a second to that motion you withdraw the to take out the deck dick that you second that yeah okay any discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I I all those opposed I I'll say name because I'm not sure what the purpose of it is well he just he it's just another motion you can have more than one motion not after one passes well this is a different motion it's not the same it failed I think if you have a positive motion you that's that's that's the permit issuing well we we granted that but you could Grant another form of relief I disagree but that's okay are you a no vote absolutely no absolutely yes or absolutely no two absolutely NOS you're a no to J yes well may [Music] no okay all right so that fails on a 32 anybody else prepared to make any further motions hearing none okay so the motion that passed was motion to allow the special permit of not greater than 25 fet not less than 25 ft setback on Sharon Road and that includes the removal of the rear Sund deck in the back corner of the lot thank you very much Steve uh Mr aigo I yes I I appreciate where we are but I still have one remaining question if the building commiss if the Building Commissioner said we can utilize the averaging method which this the only reason that we went back and had the survey do the averaging method which would get us to 23.6 on that side road setback who is correct is the board correct and saying that we can't have the 23.6 ft or is the building Comm commissioner I haven't seen a letter in support of the building commissioners uh position on that if we had that that make a difference may make a difference yep so it's it's in the zoning bylaw just like everything that we've been referencing where um okay so I'm not certain why the commissioner would have to support it when it's I I I understand that but could you point to that section of the bylaw I do not have the uh bylaw in front of me it's it's in the U it's in the the chart uh portion I used it um I used it a few years ago on 20 Bay Road we used the avering method first of all what you're talking about is setback averaging correct correct deci okay all right on setback averaging just so we're all clear on it on a front setback doesn't matter what front setback you can take the the uh house to the left of you and house to the right of you and you can average what their setback is to determine what your setback is now there is a question whether that does apply to Corner Lots those are a buding lots that that generally applies to appes to the corner lot that one does this what they're saying see you the the autter is across the street we we have had that debate before this this uh uh it says directly AB budding to the two sides so on a corner lot it would be the home just to the right or left of you and same on the where would you but but on but on Sharon Road on the setback that you're looking for you you don't have another AB butter if you're looking at the Sharon roadside you have a street separates your lot from the one across see what I'm saying if you're in the middle of the street you got two of butters on each side of you you're on a corner lot you have one a butter but then on the other side you got a road so it does it pertain to the two direct the buding Lots it has to be one to the right one to the left yep yeah it's the front setbacks of what you're averaging aren't both aren't both considered front setbacks well I I I'm I'm I'm not following you well if you live on a corner lot and your house a buts two streets both streets are considered Frontage but you're only trying to get setback relief on Sharon Road correct correct okay so you would have to use two lots that are on Sharon Road to use your average fa setback and a budding this slot and it's a budding the slot but you don't have an abutter to the left on Sharon Road you have Denise Lan okay that's what AB buts that side so the the interpretation that I was asked to use is incorrect well again if you had something in writing from Mr grills we might take a look at it I mean I don't I tell what I think you ought to do I don't have anything y go ahead there's nothing here that says what he said I never saw it there's nothing that we have that you've presented that shows what the setbacks are on those other houses even if we want well that that that that actually was going to be my next Point too you have to come in and show us what the setback is on the right even if you had setback averaging here you'd have to come in and show us what the setbacks of those other two properties were so this never made it into your package you never gave it to us no what is it well my office processes everything so I may not I may not have known that they didn't submit that wasn't in our packet fair enough I mean we really don't have any measurements of anything here except your plot plan Mr chairman we've had a motion and we've we've dispensed of this I think and and we have other people waiting and um time is you know we could hash this out all night but it seems like the motion's been made and and and adopted that's uh the the member is correct so we're going to move on from [Applause] this that's a new one frozen so done like Sean froze hang on a second Sean if you can hear us we you're Frozen he's probably he's going to get back on okay there's a motion there's a motion um you should have submitted that at least sorry the averaging you should have submitted that when we were talking about it we're not looking at anything okay can you guys hear me all right yes now we can okay all right my uh all right Steve we'll have to uh continue this I'd suggest you go and talk to Mr grills and maybe come back with another petition for us okay all right our next petition we're all set Steve thank you have a good you too our next petition is petition 5091 Jonathan Herbert property location 6 well Fleet AB West J with mass we're in an R40 zoning district and the APD the applicant seeks a special permit per 104.3 point2 subsection 4 to temporarily move the historic section demolish the non-historic section install a new foundation and build a new structure retaining the historic section the applicant requests a wber from the requirement for a certified plot plan less than two years old good evening good evening my name is Richard Peters um I'm representing Jonathan Herbert um because of the fact he was able to make the meeting um I'm not sure which which uh State he's in today and U okay we have uh Boyer B and D custom Builders I'm the general contractor that will be involved in the project all right why don't you go ahead and tell us about what you want to do here okay yeah please so um the uh existing structure contains a historic element um which we've had approval through the Cape Cod Commission um Sarah cor Jeff and all of that is in uh the papers that you have uh there's an architect who's uh drawn up plans um we're in the unique position of being in the ycga which is uh essentially there's no lot lines because nobody owns the property except everyone owns the property um everyone has a share and um it's currently um called a leite um Jonathan Herbert has on this section of property that is basically undefined um as far as having lot lines does not because uh the whole map for that area is the property 70 something acres some of it's in Barnstable as well but that's not an issue here so um basically what what what's going to happen if everything uh has approved is to uh temporarily move the um historic element um uh Baxter crane is on board and ready to go whenever uh we have the approval um to set that aside on another uh on a pier something just basically to keep it off the dirt and uh demolish the existing cottage which is um decrepit as well um the uh historic element will be um treated with all due respect through the construction process and to quote uh Sarah CF somewhat um inaccurately don't let anything happen at historic element otherwise the cape card commission's going to come down and have to make a complete decision on this again so um then we're going to um with permission obviously um build a structure on the property that is uh basically uh at this point um it's a uh summer house for Jonathan and he is um currently uh self-funding the construction we've we've gone through the uh ycga board um I just had a text from Lee Ericson the treasurer he said if there were any questions that he could answer he would have return my text unfortunately I have no service in here but okay said that we were we were approved by um and we've also uh been through the um the Yarmouth historic commission as well um basically what we want to do is just go Um do the right thing by the uh historic structure as Sarah cor has has uh has expressed in uh a couple emails build a um structure that complies with all of the uh applicable zoning laws and everything this is this is uh for Kevin uh his his part in it um it's going to it's going to be um a very nice house and if I and if I can just add one of the things that uh that Rick has already done is made sure that the uh the historic structure um is being well taken care of um it becomes a part of the main house so it's being moved temporarily and then we relocated back onto the foundation so that we're able to maintain that original structure and it becomes integrated into the new design can I uh stop you and just a couple of couple of points here um I'm I'm looking at your plans here and you don't have any dimensions on the inside as to what the size of this house is right here I at least I don't have it yeah I can speak to that to the extent that my understanding because this is um one giant parcel there are no abutters there are no lot lines and we'll be going in front of the building department certainly for both the demolition permit and the um uh and the uh the we're we're quite familiar with the Yarmouth Campground sir we're quite familiar with the Yarmouth Campground we've been approving things over there for quite quite a few years um and generally what we require is when you come before us we require a set of plans that we can see the square footage now I know you have an area summary up there but I'd like to know what the dimensions of all of these rooms are I do have some elevations with your plans that shows the height on the outside and I do have a field card here and it appears to me that you have a house that's 480 square feet and you're asking us to uh approve a new house that will be four times the size of that is that true is that your understanding indeed um some of that will be basement um that that's has has no um plans to be occupied at this particular Point well I didn't include the basement okay I'm telling Total Living under AC is 1738 total under roof with the basement's 3173 so I don't even know what you're doing with the basement are you planning on finishing that uh we don't have any plans for that at this at this point well another thing is we would like to know the distance from Street streets we would like to know some distances here too from uh Grace ab and well Fleet AB all right now we can see the picture that you provided us but that doesn't give us any distances and I will just say for myself that what you're proposing here now I know the homes in there aren't really that big but what you are proposing here is you know substantially larger than what's over there so I think for me what I would like to see is I would like to see a plan that shows the distances on this new uh structure you're proposing from grace to wle those two lot lines I want to know how far away you are no lot lines Street well the street lines measure mode to the street you say there's no lot lines yeah okay but we understand there's no lot lines you're all sitting on one big parcel but what you need to do is we we need to we know what you are over there you're Campground you got about I don't know what do you got 60 70 units over there I believe you're indeed correct U I think it's closer to 70 70 okay yeah no no no we're quite familiar with the property we've approved a number of things fact I'm not sure that we've ever really denied anything over there at least on my watch I don't know that we have okay it's very nice piece of property over there but I think I would like to have more information I would like to know the distances over to that street and I would like to know see on this plan exactly what the measurements are so I know what we're approving not just a summary up in the right hand corner I'll uh chime in with my other board members to see if they agree with me this is Jay I I agree that's the one thing I wanted is just some idea of the the setbacks from the streets and then the height those are the only those are the two main things I really need to tell the actual height um well I think you got that on one of the pages they do show the height of the building oh yeah okay I see one of their Elations they do yeah I do see that sorry but but we don't have any uh interior measurements nor do we have distances to those streets may may I make a a small request is is it possible to um say that if if we did indeed um build the structure You Know You're Expecting obviously other questions as well but if we um were to say that there would be uh you you would say that were minimum setbacks from both uh Wellfleet and Grace Avenue that um we could get uh approval to do this as long as we were you know X number of feet from Grace X number of feet from Wellfleet and uh that way we could continue forward with this without coming back to uh go through this again if it's unless there's absolutely no way around it just just a suggestion in essence if my understanding is correct that you're looking under normal circumstances for a 30 foot setback on the front on on the front um because of the this configuration uh you know running between well Fleet and Grace um if we were to be 30 feet off of Wellfleet and 30 feet off of Grace would we under those circumstances be complying from your perspective what we want to know I think I think from my point of view see we approve things over there because none of you have any lot lines but what we want to know is we want to know where your buildings are that's what we want to know and everybody else that's come in has given us those measurements and they've given us the square footages on a plan that shows how many square feet are on this floor how many square feet are on that floor the height of the building now I have the heights I saw that that's fine and we like to know the distances from where they are because you could say one thing we can say okay fine and then you go out there and you look at it GE it's not there all right we have to have some control over there because you are sitting on one lot and like I said I think in the past we've always been you know fine with approving things over there but we just want to know where they are so if um I mean we don't we don't have enough information right now to know whether this house is going to be when built 5T from another existing Cottage oh the existing C what we did this to the um relative North is what are you're referring to um I understand that um so um let me let me ask you this question before you go on yeah let me ask you a question what if we just continue your hearing get you on another date you can go to an engineer you can have them go out and take some measurements and you can have them whoever whoever drafted this plan they can insert some distances okay some measurements on the inside walls and show us what the dimensions of the rooms are so we know what we're dealing with like everybody else does when they come in because I think we're going to need that at least I'm going to want to see that tonight and I think I heard at least one other member that wants that in or two other members that wants that information as well so unless you get at least four members to vote in favor of this you're not going to succeed tonight that makes sense it sounds to me like three of us aren't aren on board with you if I could ask may I ask a question relative to uh relative to scale um again recognizing the the the town's uh setbacks of 30 ft uh if we were to present a plan a house plan providing the information that you were looking for that was both 30 ft off of Wellfleet and Grace um and sufficiently far away from the other existing cottages at this point again recognizing that there are no lot lines um are there limitations to the square footage that we should be aware of um there are some pretty good siiz houses in there now I I I I would say this you can make that in your presentation but I I did make a note that what you're asking for us to quadruple the size of that house now whether the board determines that's too big a house or not they may or they may not but you should be aware of that would the board be I'm just gonna say not and I'm not saying that it's too big I I don't want you to okay I looked at it it's it's 1,700 Square ft it looks like okay but it is right now what 480 square foot Cottage right now and you're going to quadruple the size Mr chairman in my recollection in the past when we've had other things in the campgrounds um there there was a little bit of delineation but you know if if if if they had a letter from the the campgrounds Association that said they approve something that was 20 ft from the street uh and you know so many square feet I you know we've given them the latitude mostly because it's so controlled and there are no lot lines in there um but we don't know exactly what the campground has approved is there a letter from them yeah or an attachment of there there is a letter from them saying that they had they had seen the plans and approved them um there was uh they didn't have any questions about distance from uh either weal lead or Grace as much much as we were going to essentially um cover to reconstruct and to upgrade the house pretty much in the place that it is we were just going to orient it a little bit more so that the historic element was facing directly to um weal yeah Mr n I'm so glad that you brought up that point because that was what something I was going to ask if the if the campar association says works for us yeah I think that's what we're looking for is is is some right some more specific than this what they have approved so that you know and I agree with with Sean too that we really need to know how it's going to sit whether you know because we deal so much with um presedent here sure and if somebody comes in in a subdivision where there are different rules and regulations because of setback requirements from the road it's it's difficult to us for us to justify without the approval of the association right because there's no Lots here uh unless you know so it's easier for us to give a 20 foot setback if it's approved by the Association So to that extent if if the if the association came back uh with a letter attached to a set of blueprints that had the dimensions on it and said regardless of the size the setback we think this is good yep would that be sufficient from the board's perspective I it certainly would be sufficient from my perspective but I'm only one member of the board sure yeah and and to understand more completely and I appreciate the time that you folks are giving to us um would there be any basis if the association is saying we like it for denying it yes okay so we're the we're the ones who make that decision okay so you do have greater Authority than the campground Association itself I'm not can't get a building permit without our approval right right makes sense like I said in the beginning what I want to see is I want to see the dimensions the size of the house I want to see the interior dimensions and I want a measurement from where the foundation's going to be to each one of those streets and the reason I want to know that is because where you are you got plenty of room but if you go to other parts of this Campground you're close together so that's why we want to know where everybody is cuz if you were on a smaller area in some of these places where you're a little bit more tighter you know you might be 10t from your neighbor and then you might be 16 feet from your other neighbor we want to know where that's going to be okay sure just so there's no question about it so one of your neighbors comes and says how come you let him build that so close to us well we didn't know how far away he was from you we didn't ask him yeah we actually have all that information and we we will update um is to your to your point chairman uh earlier may we uh um may we continue to the extent that we can provide additional information exactly as you described we have all of that information we have the blueprints to scale with measurements we even have a site plan that shows the the nearest abing Cottage uh and we can provide that at scale as well so that you see that there is uh quite a bit of distance between what we're looking to to construct but we'd like to know what you're proposing from distances from streets sure absolutely absolutely we have that information too and I think if if and then if you can get the association to to approve that and I I think it's a lot easier for us to approve if we know the distances sure and the potential for future problems but you know the association has got an iron hand really to I mean there's nothing to say Mr chairman that somebody else couldn't come in on an adjoining lot and be closer still to the street or to another Cottage or this house when it's done right so right makes sense well why don't why don't we do that why don't you uh give us some distances between those streets and also to your nearest neighbor can we get them back on the agenda uh what do we have for future dates uh Dolores well if if they can get the materials together April 11th is a possibility how many do we have on that night right now you have four two are continuances you think you'll need more time than April 11th no okay all right let's put him on that one okay we just need you to sign an extension agreement you agree to sign an extension agreement she needs a signature for the continuance okay okay um you you should do that because um you're the Builder thank you thank you very much we'll be all right we need a uh do we need a motion to continue make a motion to Grant a continuance second April 11th April 11th so thank you very much thank you okay hold on we got a we hold on one second now don't run away yet okay so we got a motion to continue until April 11th we have a second on that yes me okay all those in favor please signify by saying I I I any opposed hearing none that carries unanimously you do need to sign a an extension agreement before you leave and we'll see you on April 11th thank you very much okay thank you very much just sign it to you okay the next uh petition is petition number 5092 George J Hill Trustee of lauran realy trust and Louise El Hill Trustee of Enterprise nominee trust property location 39 and 15 Enterprise Road yarmouthport Massachusetts it's in a B3 zoning district and the act for protection district the applicant seeks a special permit for 202.5 and 406 to extend use F4 uh use conducted at 9 and 15 Enterprise Road to three Enterprise Road or to amend decision 4531 dated June July 2nd 2014 to allow for expansions of existing uses at 9 and 15 Enterprise Road to include number three Enterprise Road good evening good evening could you identify yourselves for the record please sure thank you Mr chairman Paul tardiff for the record I'm an attorney in yarmouthport uh C with me is Carlo Sullivan who's the service manager over at milway Marine um and also Ian o Connell the operations manager um and as you indicated we are um up on ENT uh Enterprise Road up we basically generally always say it's behind the IFA building you know out there um first of all milway Marina uh is again their offices are in yarmouthport and they also do work there uh also mostly their work is in Barnesville Harbor it's a full service Marina um authorized dealers for a number of different uh motor and boat Brands um they do a lot of work on those boats um and uh I think they're the cape's largest Yamaha outboard dealer is that correct that's the end of the commercial that's it um uh also cell boats uh used and and new as well um to be clear milway Marina already operates at 9 and5 Enterprise Road with full permits and approvals and has uh since appearing before this board in 2014 uh we're seeking merely to expand those uses the same uses um into the adjacent property at three Enterprise Road which was acquired in 2021 and leas to milway Marina so that way they can all three properties containing two buildings um just a little background in 2014 um petitioner applied to the Board of Health to um permit their operation of marine engineer uh Marine engine maintenance and repair fluid changes boat bottom painting um installation of marine electronic devices uh and hardware and that all took place at 915 um that's basically one lot now I think the building that's there which is about 45 almost 4600 ft is actually close to overlapping those lot lines so it is effectively one lot there um and at that time milway uh proposed uh and had a hearing before the board of uh of Health to store up to 200 gallons of toxic hazardous materials um and then from there we came to this board um which granted special permit decision 4531 uh I did file a copy of that you do have that in your packet uh in 2021 as I indicated uh the adjacent lot at three Enterprise Road was U uh purchased by the petitioner and leased to milway uh and what they and and on that lot is a uh a building that exists from since 1978 of about 2500 square ft um they just want to um run all those uses that they've been doing for the last uh I guess 10 years into that building as well and and have one uh large property I can tell you that it's the intention that uh if the approvals are provided that those lots will all be merged with a a plan um and'll just become one parcel um the uh again the applicant is now uh seeking to expand the uses to three um we've been uh we need the special permit because of the uses in the APD uh that's where we are um we also uh uh are increasing the allowable volume of hazardous materials from the present 200 gallons and we're going up to 900 gallons um first of all before you fall off your chair on that one uh we have been to the Board of Health uh for a hearing on that and they did unanimously approve us and recommend that we come here uh the reason for such the increase is not only because we're adding another property uh with additional uses but also and I learned this um uh outboard motors are going from two stroke engines to four stroke engines and the oil uh in a two-stroke engine tell just stop me if I'm wrong two two-stroke engine the oil is mixed with the gas and it runs through the machine that way the four stroke it's actually in the crank case so there's a lot more in there there's changing oil and moving around so that's the biggest reason the other thing is we went up to 900 gallons at the request of um Mr Lawson from the Board of Health because he is always very careful about making sure we ask for more than we need so that if there is any any overlap of deliveries of those types of materials on site that we're not going to get stuck with too many gallons on site so uh you do have Mr Lawson's memorandum of February 27th um which again gives a pretty good history of the property those memorandums from uh from Carl are always very very good um I'm not going to interpret his conclusion but I believe that uh he and the Board of Health pretty confident that the uses proposed are going to be in keeping with the requirements of section 406 the aquifer Protection District bylaw um I believe that we meet all those criteria um we're basically going to protect the environment we're going to protect the groundwater uh with um um all of the mechanisms that we have in place now with regard to storage of those materials and handling of those materials Safe Handling can tell you also that Mr Lawson did uh in preparation of his his memorandum go and visit the site as he does I think every year and again he indicates in that report that everything was up to up to Snuff uh they're following all the regulations that we did uh put in place 10 years ago and um I I think that is always the best uh indicator of what's going to happen going forward is what they've done the last 10 years so I think we meet the criteria we're not going to pose a threat to the public drinking and basically um uh we're just looking to uh allow that use I think that the easiest thing to do would be to amend section I mean decision 4531 but you can also issue another special permit if you uh are inclined to do so I'll leave that to your decision um if there any questions uh left even after Mr Lawson's memo we're here to answer that for you so I thank you very much thank you very much uh Jay do you have any questions for the petitioner no it's the Board of Health is the big issue and it sounds like they've gone through it my my guess my one question is you know where are you going to store it is it in a tank above ground or underground or where is this material is going to be stored you want an answer sure right into the mic though yep pretty much all of what we purchase new oil uh they come in 55 gallon drums which are stored in individual containment bins that contain 150% of the the drum um and then after when we change the oil it goes into an empty drum which is similar in containment so there's no actual physical containment permanent structures it's just 55 G drum using the drums for new and old and then we have good records of getting the drums pumped out the waste oil pumped away ship those off site or something no the truck comes in yeah pumps it right out pumps it out of the okay y so there's no permanent storage oh okay um is there one building that's going to be storing all this or is it going to be spread across all three just out of uh the majority of the oil and things like that are stored in in one building the main building that we have now um it's just the other building building three does have a um a nice little containment burm built out of concrete where the previous tenant used to store paints and things like that so it is nice to in one gallon increments to store them in that little bmed area um I've used milway thank you you've done a good job on them well thank you stroke engine so so but uh yeah no I'm glad you're you're growing and it sounds as long as you're adhering to everything within the Board of Health I think it's a reasonable request I didn't have any other questions and thank you J Mr fr Mr chairman if I could I just want to follow up um the same conditions that were on the first uh decision I think are included again those are still fine even with the expansion so everything so sounds like they withdrew one like the painting at the bottom is that right or something uh it said what I read was uh um a reversal in order of conditions three and four these two conditions were changed to list now two and three um uh no I think original no I think the the conditions are over on uh on the last page of page seven of his memo and they're all fine and um the only the only thing we had initially thought about doing was doing some uh boat washing right in a self-contained type of uh machine and we pull that back because off yeah we're doing it offsite anyway so I don't have any other questions yeah okay Mr NS yeah you have any questions I do um I think I I have a I have a strong memory and this is many many years ago of the petitioned to build The BJs in um um adex way and hyanis and they ended up not being able to sell oil because it was in a recharge area even in cans that were unopened they couldn't have on the site so I have a problem with that but then I I started reading through the paperwork and I noticed that I had a problem with it in 1982 and I can't believe there must have been somebody else but it says has the same name as I and um express some concerns about uh water protection and that may well have been that I was on a a water quality advisory committee for eight years and uh so that was a priority concern and and it and it still is so it's it's very difficult for me to think about 200 gallons going to 900 gallons and and whether that's more potential for risk than the for for a major problem than the 200 gallons so I'm really struggling with that and um I think when when we first to proove this for the paint for the painting guy uh it was limited to two employees and now there are lots more than that there I I think I saw eight or nine or seven or eight or something like that um so that you know you wonder if this's you get people that don't know what they're doing on on your day off and and screws up you know here we are with a major water issue and and that's the thing that I'm most concerned about well I think two things Mr NS um number one is um obviously the Board of Health has vetted this out and um and Mr Lawson who is the Hazardous Waste inspector yep has been at that site continuously for the last 10 years and sees how it's running and and what they're doing and and and and determines that it's safe now I understand that's them and the 900 gallons again you know you look at 900 oh my goodness gracious that's a big number it is a big number except that when all of those gallons are being addressed correctly by you know in accordance with the storage requirements with the spill kits The Spill training the off-site removal of those things it's it's it's easier to say it's not really that big of a risk anymore um we have boat storage facilities in that area we have other fac facilities on the street that do the same thing that have probably you know they have to be stored full in the winter you have more that you probably have more gallons than that but not on this location as I drove through today I was thinking of the numbers of boats that are stored on this site and then across the street and when those are stored now they're not all outboard outboard boats some them are inboard I presume we we only work on outboard boats we work on them but they store in board boats those are not our storage Lots no it's not your storage okay so that that's where I come in so I um I manage the scheduling so we have a very small piece of property we have an enormous amount of boats we service so we have to I have to schedule in conjunction with parts and laborers and everything only a few boats at a time so the boats that you see in the property right now coming go so in a couple days we're going to have a whole fresh set okay so um that can answer that that we don't have we're not storing anything for a large amount of time now that we're coming into our busy season um we have would you say numerous amount of boats that we have to get ready in in a short amount of time and they'll be moving in and out of our other Lots we have other properties that who who owns the boats across the street I mean who owns that property you know I didn't a chance to check um chip shops chip shops har owns that owns that U half of that and then big wave Craig um jet the jet ski rep guy in hyas and are those routinely drained to fuel when they're stored boats yeah no they're stored full generally they're required by the fire department to be stored full because then fumes will be building up in the tanks and then that was the one other question I had well that's another did the fire department review anything uh fire department was provided I I well when we file applications those are filed and provided to all of the Departments is my understanding has the boat store just you ever come up in an APD I I don't ever recall yes they were permitted by this board both of them were and I did them so I was here we can blame you if something happens me you can blame me yeah I know where you live I know you do um a previous decision on this property going back to 1987 that I did not sit on um but there was a Certificate of Insurance in the amount of a million dollar uh be provided to cover any damage damage from contamination of the water table from hazardous materials used on this site is there any insurance any insurance now in place for contamination I don't I don't know what their insurance policies cover but yeah that would be something we could review but I don't know what that that number is okay I you know I think a million dollars in in 1987 is probably five or six anyway today but I I I I I I got to think that if I'm going to vote for this I'm going to be looking for some type of insurance for contamination and I'm not sure if that's a valid condition okay that's all I have Mr chairman okay thank you Anthony how about you have any questions I don't all my questions have been answered asked uh and answered okay and Dick Martin have any questions yeah I I have to feel with everything that's going into this from the Board of Health the board of health is pretty comfortable with what the what the intent is here and how the controls are are are satisfactory to pre prevent a problem with a spill um it's it's a very old little subdivision it's a very ugly little subdivision um don't hold back dick don't sugarcoat it dick there's a couple new couple new properties that are nice um but most of it is not and this will be included in the in in the is not and I I think if we have any Cloud to do so uh that maybe it's time to get this site upgraded a little bit you know at least PL three or four trees to so it's doesn't look like it's been hit by a bomb since I've started um I I did plant six more trees to the property under the advisement of Mr grills okay all right that's not shown on this plan is that shown on this plan I didn't see it that [Applause] know it doesn't appear to be right so right along the uh where Corporation Road meets Summer Street starting on that corner Corporation Road uh looks like there's one up in the corner they have this path on the property yeah any spot that exists where it is logical to be able to get one in and I think that's probably what Mars was saying but that would be along Corporation and Enterprise yeah if you they're actually depicted on the the plan if you just look right above the word Road from Corporation Road and you will see them there several there possibly one Tre there well there's probably six what six well hopefully they're not all together they're spaced about maybe a foot apart maybe two feet apart I mean is it clump of six trees um they're spaced right when you come around the corner from Summer Street and you're bearing right onto Corporation road and it looks like they're together in the survey but they're like spaced arborite uh probably about 7 feet tall I'd say they're about 2 and 1/2 ft wide maybe 5 in on the trunk and they're probably about two feet apart with the intent that they'll get full um they've been there for I'd say approximately a year and a half since speaking with Mark grills um and then our intent is on that first building to certainly beautify that building and clean it up we're hoping that as we move forward we can take down some of the old signs and put some nice M Signs well I just I just like to say if there is the bity there are spots that are just grass or gravel uh that aren't being use for things along the roadcape that trees and not aites but trees um you know five or six there's got to be run for that uh be planted over time that that muffles a lot of the industrial uh look of a property that something that we could uh Carla you could look into and uh it's a 200 gallons to 900 Mr chairman you're you're referring to um not that entrance way but other sections along the enterpriser and Corporation roads other other other areas along the front of Enterprise Road and maybe one or two in corporation sure that's get some room to do that Mr Martin this is all open lot right we do need um the openings to bring boats in and out but um there is a section over here at the end of Enterprise Road I think right that's a fence with grass grass that be planted nice grass Hills right there yeah yeah it looks like in that area and and uh area in front of the first building maybe room for one toward uh toward stre where the yeah I mean there are there's a couple of big rocks there with some um beach grass growing there um there's there's room there for a couple of trees yeah hopefully not leafy trees that get inside boats and stain the boat but yes yeah they can they can be deciduous or Conifer I don't care okay could do that yes that's all I got I mean everything else is you know it is what it is um uh they've been through quite the uh routine with the board of appeals and and I like to think our not board of appeals Board of Health I like to think our board of health is right up there with uh all the right answers no I agree okay um I don't have any questions myself I did read the uh Board of Health memo I'm familiar with the property um you know you've been doing this for a while essentially my understanding of this petition is you're adding another building I know you're increasing the volume that you want to store I understand the reasons why but uh you you do seem to have a good track record over here uh as well as over there in Bible Harbor I know you've been there for a very very long time um so I don't have any questions um is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition none here seeing none do anybody in the audience wish to speak in opposition to this petition if so come forward and seeing do we have there are none there are none okay uh attorney up is there anything else that you'd like to add at this time no I think that's um that's about it thank you okay uh then we're going to close it to the uh public and uh the petitioner and open it for board discussion um I actually think given the fact that they are just combining this particular unit to their other two existing units and everything else is staying the same with the exception of the storage of the Hazardous Materials I think it probably makes more sense to amend the previous petition um if the board is uh in favor of this petition I would also recommend that as uh part of the condition that we incorporate the memorandum of February 27th 2024 with all the recommendations and requirements as per our Board of he um they specifically call out the four conditions on page seven yep and and I think they're they're pretty much uh the the the same conditions as was the previous except they're just going from 200 to 900 gallons yeah and they reordered a few things that's that's about yeah and they reordered them and Mr chairman just just it's always been my policy on these types of things that I actually record the Board of Health memorandum as an attachment to your decision if you issue it so all goes on be fine thank you so that that would be my recommendation if uh is to amend the previous petition and incorporate the memorandum from the Board of Health and I think they've actually covered everything so I don't really think other than planting a few trees per Mr Martin's request which I have no problem with that condition as well anyone else have anything to add I'd be happy to make a motion to do such okay uh to do such um is it amend I'm not sure the number but amend the uh previous um proposal and uh include the Board of Health letter from I February 27th and the trees that were discussed okay so we have a motion made by Jay to amend decision number 4531 incorporating the Board of Health memorandum dated February 27th 2024 as well as a condition that we plant uh how many trees dick two or three uh five five trees yeah well Carla you're going to be busy I'm I'm greedy yeah okay all right uh that's the motion that's on the floor do we have a second I'll second that Anthony seconds it any further discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I I I any opposed hearing none that carries I'm opposed Mr chairman oh I'm sorry just can't do it I just can't do it okay it is uh 4 to one the uh the motion passes with uh one opposition from Mr NS uh attorney tardiff uh I will expect a amended decision from you okay and and Mr chairman if I could just withdraw any other relief uh in that uh application that is no longer necessary without prejudice please do we have a motion to that effect so moved second all those in favor please say I I any opposed hearing none that passes unanimously thank you very much good luck thank you very much thank you thank you good luck in the project and be careful thank you thanks guys and you may have not you may not have insurance but okay our I guess it's our last petition because I believe the last one has been withdrawn is that uh correct uh lores uh yes Mr chairman but I think you have to vote on the request to withdraw uh yes let before we do that let me just go to that one because I just saw this um petition number 5090 Kevin Wright doing businesses Breakwater pools property location 24 Easy Street yarmouthport Mass it's in the B3 zoning District as well as eapd applicant seeks a special permit for 202.5 or a variance from 202.5 for D3 use in the APD to for pool balancing chemicals and quantities greater than normal household use um my understanding is the petitioner has requested that this matter be withdrawn without prejudice is that correct Dolores yes Mr chairman yeah I just wanted to clarify it's 5094 correct is that what you said yes okay is that okay okay do we have a motion second okay I have a motion and a second to allow the petitioner to withdraw without prejudice any discussion hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I any opposed hearing none that's allowed the last matter on our petition is petition 5093 Joshua C W and Jessica J Thomas Trustees of the cely and Lucy family Investment Trust dated April 15 2016 the property location 300 373 whites Path South Yarmouth it's in a B3 and an APD zoning district and this applicant seeks a special permit per 202.5 and 406 for F3 use and or amend decision 4645 dated June 14 2016 to allow expansion of existing use in Unit A and to Unit B and C for storage and warehousing of products sold at ague of cap card stores the petitioners present yes Mr chairman uh for the petitioner Paul tardiff again and seated with me is Josh W who's not only one of the trustees of the trust that owns the property but he's also one of uh the principles of uh his family business ague of Cape Cod which I think we've all seen he has various locations um throughout uh the cape uh this property is uh over on White's path uh more East um than you know over by station na um it's still in the B3 zoning District again in the aqua protection zoning District um and again this is going to probably sound repetitive on this the same uh application because it's so similar to the last one um but this this property has a 5,000 ft steel building it was built in 2015 and has four separate Bays um the lot has almost 28,000 Square ft uh this building is equipped with floor drains which feed a tight tank uh proposed use has been classified as an F3 uh on the uh use regulation table 202.5 um in 2016 so a couple years after the last time uh the applicant appeared before you uh proposing to occupy one of the bays located at the rear of the property that's going to be unit a uh for storage and warehousing of products sold uh at Agway um uh they have locations and they do have storage areas in those locations however just not sufficient for uh bulk buying uh and also to make sure they don't run out of product um so uh that's that was the purpose of uh of coming before you in 2016 again we did go to the Board of Health uh prior to coming here they approved uh the uses we have outdoor storage that's not going to change we're not seeking any amendment to that um the um but the unit a so the so what is going on inside Unit A was that uh they were going to be storing fertilizer and plant food uh with small concentrations of pesticide again this is all dry not liquid um the um products are remaining on the pallets uh that they arrive in not broken down on the site um storage until transported until uh to the Agway stores so um again we worked in 2016 with Mr the Lawson again the same process that we uh just been through it resulted in decision number 4645 um what's different about this one is rather than gallons uh of liquid they had to measure it a different way because this is all dry material so uh they're already uh pallet um platforms stacked on pallets right shrink wrapped tightly covered and they remain on the pallet and so what they did is they measured it by the storage that we had already built in the facility and that's the same in in all four of the units so but we were going to use Unit A for that purpose so rather than liquid gallons they were just going to say you could use what you have and stack it on there with pallets so that's that's what we've been doing um all these years now uh there is a increased need for some of that so um we want to expand that not only in Unit A but also Unit B and C as well so we inching our way toward the the road um they are equipped with almost identical pallet storage areas uh and the Board of Health is fine with them storing that again remember this is dry materials if it falls out of a bag it's hitting concrete and it's swept up it's not even uh really going to run into anything so um you do have Mr Lawson's memorandum of February 28th um and again I think that uh he is confident that not only has um U Mr wild been uh complying with the 2016 decision up to this date um but that he will uh going forward do the same thing that he's been doing doing it well it's a beautiful building it's a beautiful site and it really does uh it does serve a purpose for the Agway stores and you know again uh you I think we've you've been to ague before one of their locations um it is a very very well done very well managed professional store and I think that's what you get over at that site if you've been to the site you've seen it um it's um it's well done and I think that uh we do meet the criteria for uh under 10 uh 406 um I just think that um again we can either amend the prior decision to increase the storage from Unit A only to Unit A B and C in this case so uh if you have any questions uh if I could just Mr tney tardiff um so I'm I'm not filling these Bays with fertilizer that's I just want that to be clear it's it's it's everything we sell from like Pottery grass seed uh you know like plastic edging that you can buy for your garden beds uh tomato trellises all that kind of stuff is going in these things I just want the the ability that you know to store pallets of fertilizer in there so I I need the flexibility and I'm not increasing the amount of fertilizer necessarily stored on the property now that I'm using all three Bays I want to be the flexibility to move fertilizer from one like be able to not just put fertilizer in just one so I can kind of organize things and have them you know organized by category uh freely between the three Bays so that's more flexibility is all I'm really asking for not necessarily increasing even though I have the I'm asking for the ability to increase I'm necessarily increasing because demand hasn't increased that much for fertilizer okay thank you very much great we're going to go to the board for questions uh Mr NS do you have questions for the oh I have questions um I went by today and I I too was impressed with the building and the way it's kept it looks very nice I was I was surprised to see so much outside in the back but that's just LOM and um mulch in bags and it's not fertilizer or anything like that most of it is is certified organic too so it can't have any fertilizer in it okay so I was I'm happy to hear that inside it's you've got fertilizer in there obviously do you have any liquid fertilizer in there at all no no no liquids no just hard Goods okay so that's that's reassuring um and it's just an a right now I'm not using is the protection in the back from vandalism the protection in the outside product outside well we but the the um rail the rail trail there so I think you'll find that all all the properties up and down that that whites path they all have fenced backyards is it all fenced I mean from the driveway in is there a gate that goes across to no I don't block it off to people pulling in necessarily good to know I did today I I did too I didn't drive back but I saw I think I was there when I I don't know maybe I see you guys pull in I wait white truck around the back um I think that's all I have now Mr chairman I I I I too get nervous when I hear about storage of potential threats to the drinking water and tripling the amounts and those types of things but at least this is liquid not liquid it's it's um just solids and um I feel a little bit better about this one than the other so thank you okay thank you Anthony do you have any questions for the petitioner I do not uh you know it's similar to the last petition and attorney tardiff thorough review but also the and more importantly from from my perspective no offense attorney tardiff but the board of Health's analysis is what is necessary here from my perspective and you know they've done a really thorough job of analyzing the property I've been there several times and it's always been wonderful so uh if the Board of Health is uh understanding and approving uh I I appreciate that and that takes a lot of weight for me okay Jay do you have some questions no I'm just assuming we'll attach the Board of Health to whatever we decide yep however we decide to do this just like we did in the last one so other than that that that that would be my recommendation yeah yeah that's all I I read through it it sounds comprehensive so much so could I ask Mr chairman one more question does course does this is a a special permit yes so it doesn't run with the land so we're not committing to storage of fertilizer in any form in the future to anybody else that the building might be sold to well it's not specific to the owner it is it is specific to the owner isn't it uh if if someone came in only only if it's in the decision if if someone came in to run the same type of use that would they would allow it okay under the same conditions okay and as long but if they want there annual yeah there's annual Board of Health inspections with this yep yeah okay uh Mr Martin questions um no it's pretty good to me the uh plant a tree bill they have store stores in the uh aquafer districts as it is with the same kind of stuff in them and it looks like there's enough controls and and watches being put on it uh to take good care of it and it's a newer building with trees so don't even have to have ask for that there you go now these are the people that should plant the trees over at the other partitioner place right and mulch it you give your that's right okay all right is there any uh anyone in our audience who wishes to speak in favor of this petition nobody there okay seeing none no one opposed all right attorney tardiff is there anything else that you'd like to add no thank you sir okay well um as I indicated on the last petition I think the way to go with this one since it's all together as well is to amend the previous petition and that would be petition what was that petition you wanted to amend Paul 4645 amend petition 4645 and incorporate the memorandum of the Yarmouth Board of Health dated February 28th 2024 um should I say the memorandum from Carl Lawson hazardous waste inspector dated February 28 2024 incorporate that into our decision and those recommendations and requirements become uh conditional upon the special permit is there anybody that wishes to make a motion to that effect uh I move petition 9 oh no wrong ones petition 5093 um as requested in the application I'll second the motion okay any further discussion on the motion and that motion is to amend the previous decision that's why isn't that in front of me is that 45 four 4645 4645 we'll be amending petition four decision 4645 and we will be incorporating the memorandum from Carl Lawson dated February 28th 2024 okay any further discussion hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I any opposed hearing none that carries unanimously attorney tardiff I will expect a uh draft decision from you yes sir and if I could just uh request one last thing just to withdraw any relief uh that is uh unnecessary at this point uh without prejudice please I would make the motion to accept the request to uh eliminate the variant withdraw withdraw any uh relief for the relief that was asked for second to that motion yeah second all those in favor I I I opposed hearing none just one other thing I would like to say on the record and this is in regards to the Yarmouth Board of Health and and specifically Carl Lawson the Hazardous Waste inspector his memorandums in these APD uh decisions and special permits requests have been invaluable to this board they're our they're really our guide because we don't have an expertise in this and we really really appreciate it and I think it's not only invaluable to us but to the petitioners as well so our hats off to uh the Board of Health and specifically Mr Lawson for his good work that's all I have tonight Dolores do we have any minutes that we need uh to approve No Sir Mr chairman I'll make a motion to adjourn okay J there you go and second out quick uh second I'll second that all right I'll second that all those in favor hi no opposed okay hey everybody have a good night now thank you very much take care