##VIDEO ID:CTCkLFTSW0E## okay um is our right te in is he getting ready to turn on the the lights cam in the action it's coming right now how's everybody doing tonight here we are fix that camera right there there we go Anthony can you hear us okay good good evening good evening everybody Welcome to the regularly scheduled meeting of the yth zoning board of appeals today's date is September 12th 2024 and we have three matters on our agenda tonight the first matter is petition well it's a review of a decision 5046 NSTAR Electric Company doing business as eversource energy 484 Willow Street West joh with mass are they here come on up to the table right um the property is is in a B3 zoning District APD and Road we're here for a one-year review per condition number four of decision 5046 dated September 14 2023 to ensure compliance with conditions related to fencing buffer zone and new plantings good evening gentlemen good evening could you identify yourselves for the record please I'm Jason St Martin manag of facilities for eversource I'm Isaac hjin civil engineer with with shive haty okay all right we're here to discuss the compliance with the conditions would you like to tell us uh whether you are a compliance or whether you're not I would say we are um I did furnish a bunch of materials to Dolores uh that shows photos shows some asilt plans um so yeah vegetation coming in nicely I know the screening in the 8ft fence was installed and is still up um yeah the buffer that was adjusted as well that had been maintained so I think we're yeah we're in a good spot okay okay I've gone by it a couple of times looks very nice did a nice job over there and the plantings are coming in very well thank you um I think we're going to go to the board see if we have any questions dick do you have any questions for the petitioner no I've been by several times too and it looks it looks very nice um are you pleased with it were there conditions that you didn't like that you did because you had a decision or did you do pretty much what you wanted to do anyway yeah I think the plantings are nice they kind of low maintenance so um no I think it looks great over there not using it much which is a good thing because have line 100 line trucks there at one time and means we're not having these major storms so I think we've only mobilized there twice um but haven't had many crews kind of storm well hopefully the lot will last longer than the good weather but for your sake anyway um there's a there's a redoing of the the new parking lot or one closest to the building closer to the building are you going to continue that type of planting and fencing on that lot that's that they're working on now or what right now no that lot is specifically just being done to repay um pavement that has been degraded um we are looking at that facility as a major renovation and I would think that we yeah we would once that major renovation takes place and we're in the very early planning uh stages of that project that we would continue those plantings okay further down I was thinking for continuity it might might be a good idea yeah the service center sort of sticks out it's sort of plain y now and that you know the new plantings that we've done you know looks much nicer than what we have at the office does no I think you did a good job thank you Jay do you have any questions I was going to ask the same thing I said it look so nice I was hoping you'd extend it all the way across but uh no it does look like you didn't nice job and you do have the the uh irrigation systems are there because the plants look good but I just wanted to make sure the irrigation in the front is all it is we actually extended it a little further than what was originally proposed because it Corner we do have monthly inspections done by a third party just making sure you know things are coming in well so we actually extended the irrigation some okay good but no it it looked it looked fine it looked uh look good thank you okay um you know I see this four condition that we should have put five one more condition in there when we originally in there too late well that there would be preference to uh Yarmouth residents to get their electricity turned on since we're the host staging area we we hope you'll consider that when the power goes out we get when the power goes out we hope you consider us first that okay uh well a representation has been made uh by the petitioner uh I have looked at the property they do seem to be in compliance oh Anthony I'm sorry did you have any questions for the petitioner no no questions I direct by it daily I'm right around the corner so I appreciate it okay you've had a chance to take a look at it and you're satisfied as well I am okay um I'd be happy to make a motion to I guess what we just make a motion to what approve well it's a one-year review but I I think uh we could make a motion that we find that there are in compliance with the conditions as represented by the petitioner like to make a motion basically that motion okay we have a second to that motion second to that motion brilliantly stated motion do we uh have any uh any comment on that Anthony any comments no no hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I I I any opposed hearing none carries unanimously thank you very much for coming back and we appreciate it thank you gentlemen gentlem take care have a nice night okay just get this put that right over there next matter on our agenda is petition 5127 CRC Communications LLC doing business as goet speed property location is 980e 28 South Yarmouth Mass it's in a B2 zoning district and the applicant seeks a special permit per 202.5 for an F7 use to install a fiber optic Communications equipment in an existing storage shed good evening hi would you identify yourself for the record please my name is Terry Turner and I work for goet Speed okay could you uh tell us a little bit about your petition pleas how far down would you like me to drive ah you don't have to go that far it's pretty uh self-explanatory yeah go goet speed you know sometimes boards don't want it all and sometimes they do want we'll take the short version okay um goet speed is intending to build um a Fiber Optic highspeed internet um Network in on Cape Cod um as part of that the fiber needs what is called an Olt which is an optical light termination cabinet it's sort of like if you think of the old days with the telephone companies they had the central offices which are those brick buildings and all the switches are in there oh this is just it looks like a rack in a computer it room and it just switches all the fibers to Route them where they need to go so we're proposing to put one of those in to an existing building 980 um Route 28 in the back of it in there will be two racks did I give you a picture of what the racks look like I think so no I don't think so site plan I I may have aired we didn't I didn't get it permission don't approach ah sure that's what they look like you mind if we keep this for our record AB okay thank you how big is how big is that is that like six feet tall and pretty much four feet wide two in it's the all computer racks what's that it's like six feet tall and four feet wide yeah it's yeah about my height five to six feet tall usually seven something like that okay so this is a whole new company this is not an expansion of existing oh no well it's an expansion into this Market but you've not been in this market at all no no no so we might expect some competition among the suppliers of service remains to be seen I don't know if others are are coming into the market of fidum or you know others are coming in here I don't know that I don't know of any fiber optics companies on the cape do we except open Cape is open Cape a fiber optic if if there were established providers here you know it's likely we might not come it may you know it may not be lucrative enough to do it because the the population isn't that dense but right now what we know is it works and would you I'm sorry Mr chair um would it be capewide or would it be concentrated in the Middle Cape area or what primarily in the beginning we have to go where the density is and the density is usually near the residential areas like that's why Yarmouth Dennis harwitch okay Barnstable henus area will'll go in the dens areas at some point when we fill out our needs let's say pick the low hanging fruit yeah then we can expand out okay and actually we're thinking of we have provinc town on the radar I don't know if we're going to go there yet way and in that with that rack that you see there'll be some batteries for uninterrupted power power supply for a short period of time but outside we we would like to place a generator like a 12 or 14 KW Coler generator we usually use like a house generator powered by our plan is to power with the natural gas there's a meter right there at the at the Taffy stand we're not 100% positive there's enough capacity there to service us and the Taffy stand in the you know the months that they're operating we think there is in the winter there should be plenty because they're closed they're closed and and the generator is only when the power goes out I don't know how often the power goes out around here we don't either you should have asked the people before you I've asked us a lot of questions in the past um and then and then it Powers up like once a week for 15 or 20 minutes for test in just to make sure it's running it's once a week you'd do it once we test it for like 15 20 minutes okay um we would also because it's inside um we would also place a small you know heat pump on the building just to keep it cool in the summer months in the winter we probably won't have to run it but that will be electrically run you would you wouldn't have to have heat in the in the winter no I'm not really worried about coal just worry about really yeah generates heat it generates its own heat well it generates heat so that's why you don't have to worry as much about it won't freeze up okay um but get back to your question about the natural G that's our plan if it turns out we can't we would we would have a propane tank on the side of the building or whatever fits the codes it has to be 10t away from the generator or you know an ignition source so that would be our our backup as far as traffic generation once it's put in place you know they'll just come for routine maintenance or if there's a problem with it I mean there's no people there now I believe the Taffy company built that building what 10 or 12 years ago or something like that they came before us I believe for the and how long ago did you build it okay 2012 and um there's no longer any mixed use then you don't need the storage anymore they don't need the storage anymore he does store things in there we're going to divide the building okay we're taking what 10 by 14 Dan y 10 by 14 we're taking the back half we're putting up a demising wall a separate door and so we're dividing it so he's not losing all of his storage capacity just half of it a portion of it he's using a portion of that's all I have Anthony any questions no I don't I mean just as a general principal matter I I did some research on the company and I did some research on what we need here on the cape so it's a wonderful service I'm I'm happy to have them if they want to explore the opportunities here great to have them so within the scope of what the zba is our our review is you know I think it's a reasonable request so I'm happy to discuss it with the board but thank you for the presentation and um hopefully welcome you to our community as long as you're not building a 200 foot Tower you're all right I've done that in the past I know what that's like I I know what these meetings are like what I'm doing at there's usually a full room behind me sometimes there is um just I had a couple questions um so is this is this station going to be something that's a Central Station to Bren for the cape or is this just going to be for the yarm area right now it's just for the Yarmouth area matter of fact I'm looking for another one another site in Barnstable so your your goal would be to have one of these in each Town Well we'd like we we'd like to consolidate as much as we can but it has to do with we'll call it the back hall is how we get from A to B exactly you know how how how do we get from here to barnville and how do we get from wherever back to the world and that's what I'm trying to get at is do you have a centralized location right now that's going to bring it in from the off the cape um they are negotiating with a couple of existing fiber providers you know the the they call dark fiber excess capacity yeah okay so this is really more like a substation for Yarmouth to to speak yes this is this yeah it's like a an integrated unit for Yarmouth to use it will get it to the world um I don't have any other questions am I correct that that neither Verizon nor nor Comcast has fiber optic systems no they do Comcast has fiber not to I don't know where they have it here I'm I'm a real estate person so I don't know oh I but that's all right I don't know the network design but to my knowledge I mean is fidum out here they have to have it someplace on the cape I would think they have a dark main cable I I don't know I I was I've been told over the years that that the fiber hasn't been here because they didn't want to go the last mile to go to the individual house F the main fiber links I would think are but fiber to the house I don't think so and and that's what go net speed is we're a Last Mile we're a Last Mile provider matter of fact this project is called FTA fiber to the home ftth is this is this done by Wireless is that how you hook into a home they'll bring a they'll bring a fiber optic cable in two tin cans like cable vision yeah none of you have ever had fiber optic for your home internet service I have um you have yeah in another location it's so much better unfortunate I just moved to a place where I can't get it and cable fiber doesn't work very well for me and if you're used to it you think you're in the back in the Dark Ages with di absolutely um so does this is there any noise that this emanates um just the generator when it's running um and the generator I I gave you the cut sheet I believe um it not that concerned about the generator I I'm familiar with generators that's an emergency situation I'm not concerned about that I'm just saying there's no humming noises that are going to occur on a daily not outside the bu building no okay uh so in terms of the gas line uh you're going to tap off saltwater taffy right now that's our plan is to tap off their their meter bring it over and feed the generator with that um if you needed to go other than that um a propane is that you planning on an above ground tank yes we generally put in a 120 I think I'd like to see a below ground Line run in there if you're going to need a another line right from the below ground line for you run one right off 28 a gas line get the gas company over and hook a gas line we've talked to the gas company it's very expensive to do and it takes a long time to do it well I run gas lines to houses that I build why is it tough to run that in there Mass do well you're going to have to come back and see us if you need a propane tank because I need to see what it's going to look like how big it's going to be where it's going to be cited you agree to do that it's obviously if we have to do it we will you know it's it's it would be a 120 tank gallon that was just what we we've done with all of our other almost all of our sites are run with propane how big is a 12 tank it's the one that's about this tall and about this big around it's not a big deal they put in the back yeah how far does it going to be away from the building doesn't have to be very far from the building it can be right up next to it it can be right up next to it I have propane tanks right next to my house I just had one put in last week it's right up against the house it has to be 10 ft from an ignition source so if the furnace were on the other side of that wall you couldn't have it there next to the wall on the other side of the wall if you don't have a furnace in your building but if there if there was a furnace in an outside wall of a building you couldn't have the the propane tank on the other side of the wall and the exterior yeah you can put that you said 10 ft 10 ft from the ignition going put that on the back ignition any ignition Source or just like a generator anything that would you know kicks on like I mean you can have it next to an electric meter even though that's not an is the generator currently going to be placed on the back side of the of the sh yes so you couldn't put the tank there either no his thought was to put the tank as you're facing the building the left hand side near the back where you've got the there in the woods and it wouldn't be where the public would you're talking next to C on the CVS side right yes yeah yeah you're kind of close to 28 there so I I'm not quite sure could we fence that in we would put Ballers around it if it needs to be fence we can we can fence it how close is the building to the the property line right [Music] now it's pretty close I remember a tank would have to be has to be 10t from a proper want that's PARTA of the reason why I'm asking uh well it looks like that building's 8 feet on the close side here 10.2 at the furthest yeah is that what they put yeah so you couldn't go on that side go on that side says 102 W that's that that's the furthest point I tell you what I think the best thing to do is to uh at least from my perspective uh why don't you try tapping off his line I have a feeling that's going to work for you have you already discovered whether that's going to work for you what um the generator company has told us there's a 3/4 inch existing line there that um that will work provided there's less than a 100 feet of run and less than that what's that yes it would be and and each 90° turn counts as 6 or8 feet something like that so it's about a 35 foot run it should work well if it doesn't work I think we should put a condition in here that you're going to have to come back with a plan and show us where that's going to be okay okay that's acceptable I think we have an aesthetic question here mhm um and it doesn't look like we could just fence it in on the side and I think it's going to be a little bit difficult where you're going to put that generator and I don't want the generator anywhere but in the back of it either what about if the heat pump was on the side and that now we still couldn't have the propane tank there now you're right up against the lot line here yeah you sound like you're doubtful at the uh the existing Line's going to work I no I'm not doubtful I just don't know for sure so you okay so you haven't had an engineer look at this we have had the generator company look at it that it's that they said the 3/4 would look would work let me ask you this question if you're the owner of the building yeah how much gas do you use almost none what do you use gas for just the water heer and that's only June to now pretty done C in the well here's the deal the power is out we aren't using it right how's that I get done if no power I I I'm not quite sure where the conflict would be between you and you as far as drawing on the gas zero problem PR this way it was a $50 bill our busiest month for gas pays 50 bucks gas so we don't use any it's only when the burner going when we're cooking one bat at a time I mean what I look at is what's a worst case scenario if it doesn't work what do we do we have that facility there if it doesn't work and propane is something we've used in other markets we obviously would rather use the natural gas it's a much cleaner easier way to go if we can tap off his makes sense let's put the condition well if you can use his that's fine okay if you want to put a propane tank in you got to come back and see us could I ask one more question that's not related to the building so much as it is the other building is there an encroachment on the a budding property it's shown on the plan that a corner of the other building is over the existing property line yeah is that the building behind that's the Taff building that's the Taffy building don't you own that property I don't D that's why I asked the question he owns all that you own that property with the whole three acres that's there all right so you're not encroaching that corner of the building is not encroaching on in a butter that was there all before everybody here was Bor I was going to say that it may have been there before the property line was was established one whole lot yes but a bunch of separate little on nonperforming Lots okay so yeah so you're aware of that encroachment on your property okay thank you make chop the corner 10 ft back we give you e and we'll cut that out um do anyone have any other questions do you have anything else you'd like to say uh no I don't uh um is there anyone in our audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition seeing none is there anyone in our audience that wishes to speak in opposition to this petition seeing none do we have anybody on line regarding this one no Mr chairman all right if there's nothing else we're going to close the uh close a petition to the public uh and we'll open it up for board discussion or is anybody prepared to make a motion I'd be happy to make a motion to approve the use um with the condition that uh they have to come back to us if they need to put in the propane solution okay is there a second to that I'll second and second that okay I would note that the application is written does not have a propane tank on it it it it it's not there this is something that came up when we were kind of concerned about if there was enough capacity and and that's why I talked to Mark about if I should amend this and he said no because you you know it's well um what what we're going to do is we're going to approve it okay as presented with a representation that you're going to power your generator with the existing gas lines coming from saltwater taffy if that doesn't work we'll put language in there and you need a propane tank to power that generator then you must come back to this board with a plan that shows where it's going to be and I would suggest to show that it's housed somehow MH um you are tight over there on that side on that sideline so I'm not quite sure how easy that's going to be and uh if you think it's going to be a problem which I don't know I I personally I don't okay because when you need it he's not going to be open anyway most of the power out is are going to be in very bad weather and he's not going to be there yeah it'll be a snowstorm or middle summer we can't do anything right exactly even if you made all the Taffy you wouldn't be able to sell it I couldn't I couldn't W it I couldn't do anything it sitting there well everything wouldn't be working anyway so okay the way I would request at the board the way they word it is that natural gas whether it's from his or we run a new line across 28 you know if we elected to do that if propane becomes an issue just say powered by natural gas yeah Power by natural gas any other fuel well we'll we'll allow a generator that's powered by natural gas but not above ground propane no natural gas is underground well I'm I'm just saying that you it's represented that there's a we're going to put it in the decision that you're going to have a line that's going to run from that you're going to tap off his line that's how you're getting come directly from 28 or if you want to come in directly from 28 you can do that yes that's what I'm asking for the natural gas is either Source either Source that's fine we're just not allowing an above ground propane tank to be installed without for the hearing on the matter understood okay I like to modify my motion to be that okay make that work right okay Dolores is the magician that'll make it happen thank you Dolores you're welcome okay so we have a uh motion made by Jay seconded by uh Anthony and Dick whoever wants to flip the coin does matter to approve the uh petition as requested with the condition that uh it's a natural gas that if there if the generator requires a propane tank above ground to be powered M uh that the petitioner must return to the board with a plan to show us where the propane tank will be and how we plan plan to screen it and how we plan to screen it and then we'll we'll address it from there uh any further comment on this I do not for me any further comments on this Anthony no no no n for me anyone else uh all I would say is I do think the petitioner has met the criteria the bylaw that I don't think you're going to be substantially more more non-conforming to the neighborhood nor do I think you're going to uh create any undo new Hazard or congestion by doing what you want to do with that location uh okay all those in favor please signify by saying I I I I any opposed hearing none that carries unanimously now after the decision is written it will be filed with the town clerk okay once that happens a 20-day appeal period starts after the 20-day appeal period ends you can see Dolores she'll give you the special permit uh you must take that to the Bible County registry of deeds and record it oh okay and then bring a copy back for our records just drop one off do bonable do the recording in the county or does it done in the town County County reg the town it's Ministry of Deeds building on Route 6A in Barnstable Village okay that's where you take it yeah they do it for the whole County Massachusetts is a little confusing for me with how you do how you record Deeds yeah we particularly when the town's the same name as the as the county and yeah the village is the same name as the county and then you have two types you have the book and page then you have what the plan book is it called recording they'll take care all that for thank you okay thanks again good luck with the project hopefully no Towers Towers how's the cell service here we we're working on it thank you bye bye now okay okay our last petition is petition number 5128 296 Newton Street LLC property location at 68 Hond Road West gouth it's in an R40 zoning District a and Zone 2 the applicant seeks a special permit per uh section 407 to create a 700t accessory apartment are you here on that petition 68 yes8 uh the owners are asking for a log password I'm here to do whatever you guys need to all right we'll figure that out okay uh can we we I don't know if we have her email address so I mean if they don't need to be present I that's why I'm here for they live in in in Boston so Boston I'm glad you know okay okay well uh and who are you sir I'm Alec deala nice to meet you and uh you what capacity are you here today are you an owner of the property I'm not the owner I am a contractor and I help them out on the cape with their properties do you have uh their consent to represent them here tonight I have filed the application with uh Mrs delorious in the town well that doesn't actually give just because you file an application doesn't give you authority to represent them not that I don't believe you I um are they available by telephone yes don't you give them a call have them identify themselves through that microphone right there and uh just so you can speak on their behalf and uh they may want to stay on there for some questions we do that we can do it that way can't we hi Michelle um how you doing you need just to authorize me to uh talk for you here or you can be on the speaker phone if you like all right okay I can have what's that we have her email we have her email address in the application if we want to send her the zoom link so she can sign on yes that would be fantastic is that okay we do sh sure Gardini law.com you want me to do it Dolores that would be awesome thank you thanks Anthony how's he do that from where he is he he's got the L too he's got the L I think so yeah can he send her an invitation from his spot I didn't know that email I sent him he just to forward the email I sent to oh I see okay all right I thought that was something I I thought it was a little something you didn't have huh no n you know one of those learn something new every day you here just put a stamp on they're going to send the link to my email Alec correct correct yep I think they're doing it right now perfect yeah let me know if you received it I'm on my email right now nothing yet um just a clarify it's Michelle with one l i some people put in two I don't know if that check my JP you get that Anthony Michelle with one L yeah I got okay is it your photo comes up when I send it so I I think I've probably emailed you before somewhere in this world oh possibly yeah that yep I'm maybe it's just on its way through now let me oh got it here we go um let's see I will be on right now I'm going to hang up with you and log on to zoom okay all right great thank you thank you bye bye hi everyone Hi how are you how are you guys good you have did you turn your video on for us please uh yes I can let me figure out how to why it's not on that's odd um left hand corner yeah there's an icon usually I know I'm not a stranger to zoom but um this is not giving me an option for it let me see if I guys it's really U I don't know if it's a setting on the zoom link that you sent there is no video option whatsoever on this um okay well all right I can I can see I can join as a panel stay as I can join as a panelist is that what I need to do yes okay that's why there you go hi how you doing and I'm unmuted now I got this okay I've never done the panelist side of it how are you guys good could you identify yourself for the record please I am Michelle Gardini uh 68 hor Pawn Road okay and and what is your what is your home address um I have multiple so which which one do you want we we have multiple how about the at your primary residence what is your address so I can give you one in Boston we bounce around a lot um 32 Everett Avenue okay in Winchester that's one that's all we need it's just one okay yeah that's one you is that where you receive your mail um 296 Newton Street let me give you that that's a business address that's that's probably a better place to read me 296 we're looking we're looking for your your home residence not your business address okay you can send to 32 everv um if there's any urgent contact though that you're sending me I would email or send it to the business address 32 Everett a and that is where Winchester Winchester [Music] 01890 okay all right go ahead and tell us about your petition okay so I actually we bought this property a couple of years back um apparently at the time when we bought it and uh had no idea but there was a a stove a gas stove already hooked up in the in-law apartment downstairs or accessory apartment though it wasn't ever legally approved for an accessory apartment believe the guy we rented we bought it from was renting it out um so the building con uh Department contacted me let me know I needed to apply for a special permit my dad is actually living there he's here with me as well if you want to meet him um he's actually living there full-time um so they gave us two options they said you can take it out take the stove out completely or you can apply for this special permit so I've been working with the building department to do that okay for yeah so this is his only way of living uh really I mean he has to live there he doesn't have the means to support himself in any other way so we're financially handling that you own the building we own the property yeah why can't he move upstairs he's handicapped um he can get basement but he can't get on the first floor it's a walk out basement yeah so it's a walk out basement that you walk around and you the driveway if you've seen it gradually slopes down and he's able to get in versus upstairs we have it's It's Tricky the front entrance to get in the house is a maze of stairs basically um it's very uneven I don't know I mean I can show you guys the inside with pictures but there's stairs everywhere upstairs and he's it's my dad say hi hello Mark Wallen he's the one that's living down there but he's handicapped so he has a very difficult time walking I'm unbalanced yeah I have a I I I have a picture of the house right in front of me yeah I'm not quite sure what the problem is to get in the front door there are steps on the front to get in about six St steps on the front there's two more steps down okay why couldn't you just install a ramp and some railings I mean I suppose I could but I couldn't really level the rest of the house right without completely gutting it and redoing it so there's steps if you go inside the kitchen there's two steps to get down when you walk in the front door it's one lower level and then there's two steps to get up to get to any bedroom so it's just not an ideal situation for him I've got a uh I've got a violation notice here dated July 14th 2022 I have one here for October 4th 2023 and I have a notice of pending court action dated July ju 24th 2024 why is it taken why has it taken you two years to come in here so I've actually been in contact with the building department most of that time um Tim Sears and we've talked back and forth about this um we were deciding if we were going to what we were going to do if we were going to pull out the stove entirely or if we were going to do you know apply for this special permit um I've been working with them Alec my contractor who's there this evening live and in person has also been working with them U to to figure out the best approach for this I know there's new bylaws that just that are going into effect in February as well um that will make this process easier but we were just kind of trying to figure out if we were going to remodel the whole place or what we were going to do um and that's why you know not that it's an excuse but we have I have been in contact with the building department the all time well you're here tonight for a special permit which has nothing about ripping out gas stoves we don't deal with that that would be between you and the building department why don't you tell us how you qualify for special permit under Section 403 or 407 I'm sorry well I mean I think the apartment itself qualifies it's under 700 square foot he's directly related to me uh I'm owner well read bylaw um well did you read number one um I did you read the bylaw did you read the bylaw I did well that does nothing to do with family related apartments anymore right right I know that's that's yeah that's changing or changed but we know that okay okay the the first the first criteria is that it must be owner occupied must be your primary dwelling and you just you just told us that you live in Winchester that's your primary dwelling so we can stop at number one well so that's where T Sears I've been talking to the building department there's some clarification we also live there we're there half the year um is that your primary residence or not well I don't so this is what there's to clarification what do you constitute as a primary residence and your voting address and you gave us your mailing address is Winchester so you automatically disqualify yourself so that's so how do you guys handle people that have multiple addresses and live at multiple addresses the bylaw was specifically designed to have only in only including properties where the main part of the house was primary residence for the owner of the property okay after two years of Investigation the planning board decided that that was going to be their primary Criterion in allowing accessory departments that it not be that it be a primary residence for the owner of the property and that the lease would be a year- round lease for the tenant of the property okay so my question is these are Revelations you haven't read the byw they're not Revelations I've actually called the the the clerk's office many times to get clarifications on what you guys consider a primary residence because I have a unique situation that we own multiple and we Lu our time between multiple residents what aren't you lucky but the bylaw is specific that this be your primary residence where you vote from where do you vote so so I changed my I don't vote I so I changed my voting address to Yarmouth and I could be considered a primary residence is that what you consider because there's there wasn't any any specific ific literature I could find anywhere online that clarified the BW is very clear all right well let me let me let me just kind of bring this back here um do you have a homestead exemption on the property in Winchester no I don't think we have a homestead exemption on the property in Winchester okay we have maybe I have a homestead exemption on a prior residence that I own that I'm now renting out I mean I can check but well well I I I think ma'am ma'am respectfully we asked you what your primary residence was and you told us it's Winchester now you're telling us you own multiple properties and you could have primary residence everywhere but unfortunately the the law doesn't allow you to do that but this you asked me a mailing address where you could send correspondence correct well we're going to need some we're going to need some proof from you that this is your primary residents what proof would you like me to provide that's what I'm asking well do you do you receive mail at this address I do okay what do you receive from mail there uh bills real estate tax bills gas bills pool electric bills ma'am this is owned by an LLC this this uh property you're H I'm happy to show you mail that I received That's goes directly to Ludo and Michelle Gardini the owners of the property we buy all of our properties and llc's every single one of them where do you work uh we own our own company where do you work we have an office in walam we have an office in Florida we have um an office in Brazil I mean we have multiple let's let let's we we won't go as far as Brazil so you have an office in you have an office in wamp we do and you live in Winchester how often how often are you in the office and uh in walam how many days a week maybe once maybe twice a week mhm okay then where are where do you go to the off where where do you go for work other than that once or twice a week well most of the summer I was working in Cape Cod I have a home office set up at 68 horon Road shouldn't the driver's license what's your driver's license say your address is 391 High Street which is a residence I also own um in Medford that's now a rental I think I'm the last place I'm registered to vote is probably South South Boston don't worry about yeah I mean I I think I think for purposes of what you're telling this board I don't think we're going to be convinced that this is your primary residence okay what would I need to do to make it my primary residence is do you want me to change my no no you can you can lawyer you can consult an attorney on that or whoever you might but for purposes of what we're doing here tonight we have to see if you meet the criteria under the bylaw and the first criteria is it must be your primary residence okay so could I have an extension on this to consult with a lawyer then to figure out what I would need to do to make this my primary residence Well ma'am no you you have had two years to straighten this out the reason that you're here tonight is you ignored them is because you got a final notice that said that that the town was going to take action against you in a court of law well In fairness the reason I'm here tonight is because I'm applying to legalize something that was left in my hands I could just remove the stove and have never applied for the permit and then in February when the new law goes into effect it's my understanding that I won't need a special permit or it will be easier to get approved they're removing the permanent the town's going to proceed with action against you I don't know whether that'll happen before February yeah they stopped that I was here with the building department they that that that's not that's up that's up to them that that's not our priew I'm done um okay so uh getting back to so is there anything else you'd like to add well I guess I would like some clarification since no one has been able to provide that um what is the clarification terms on what you consider what the criteria is for the town of Yarmouth for a permanent resident we we don't that we don't we don't give that advice out all we do is we handle special permits and variances when you don't meet the requirements from the building department or if you're violating the zoning back in July 14th of 2022 this town made a determination that you were violating the zoning you did receive a a letter correct uh I received a fine from the town if that's okay did you pay it did you pay it uh I believe so I'd have to check with the I well I believe all of that's been taken care of say something real quick excuse me just one second okay well you were in violation and I have the letter in front of me would you like me to read you the letter um I mean again I think I've received the letter I think this is why Alec and I I've have been working with the the building department you know about this and they they said to me listen here's the option so we don't go after you you can either remove the gas stove or you can simply apply for a permit for for this accessory apartment and that was two years ago no can I say something I'm sorry that was recently I've been working with him recently but I've been talking to Tim Sears the whole time about this it's not like I've been ignoring the building department or that's fine but just so you understand procedurally what we're doing here tonight okay you chose not to take out the gas stove if you took out the gas stove it's my understanding that you'd be fine because you wouldn't have facilities okay all right and you but you haven't done that and you don't want to do that am I is that fair to say I I mean ideally I would like to get this approved as an accessory apartment to help my dad out because otherwise okay wait wait wait so you don't want to take the stove out so what you did is you fill down an application correct before us to get a special permit for an accessory apartment pursuant to section 407 of the bylaw correct in order for you to get a special permit you must meet the criteria that's listed in the bylaw and that's 1 through 14 we have conditions requirements number one says that it must be your primary residence we have heard testimony from you so far tonight that at least in my mind you've indicated or demonstrated to us that this building is not your primary residence okay so my question then wait wait hold on hold on wait wait and so therefore at least in my mind you fail to meet the criteria of the bylaw so okay I wouldn't be able to support this petition so we at least for me I don't know how others feel I'll let them chime in I think gentleman to my left Mr NS may agree with me on that uh so if you don't then we're going to have to take a vote here tonight uh and it'll either be up or down whether we think you met the criteria um will'll let you add anything else that you want to but I think you failed in number one that that's kind of fatal at least to this board if you don't meet at least number one all right variances can't be given out on these only special permits okay so uh we understand your situation unfortunately um we have a charge from the town and that's to uphold and interpret the bylaw I understand um and so uh Here We Are Tonight uh we understand that you been two years in the making trying to get this thing straightened out you've been on notice uh you are aware that you can be fined up to $300 a day for the violation it's also my understanding that they've told you that if you remove gas stove you don't even have to come before this port you'll be fine but you've decided that you want to come here so here we are tonight I'm going to let you proceed and tell us anything you want to add okay I mean I would I would just add that again I my situation is unique and that I have multiple properties and I divide my time up throughout the year at multiple places including a a home setup office that I have that I work through in the cape most of the summer many many weeks in the fall and throughout the winter we spend half of our time there so I don't really understand how I'm going to prove to you guys that it's my primary residence when I in fact have multiple residences and I have a profession and a job that allows me to move between all of those so I'm I I'm I'm not a loss here I'm just trying to help my dad out who's handicapped who can't go anywhere else Michelle just so you know you're not unique we have a lot of people that have houses down we have a lot of people that have houses down here that are used part of the year but and there there are all Al those that are here and it's their permanent residence they may have a house somewhere else but this is their legal residence and what you what you've told us is it's not your legal residence from what you've described so if it's not your legal residence then it doesn't fit our bylaw and that's all we're trying to explain so I understand if you'd like to if you'd like to change that you could pursue it you can talk to a lawyer or whoever it might be to find out what it would take to change your legal residence to be Yarmouth that's all we're trying to explain that's I'm happy to do that because if it's as simple as okay I filed my taxes instead of at a business address in Yarmouth or put a homestead exemption on it I am happy to do that um the town and maybe you guys can provide some feedback um the building department had mentioned that perhaps if I receive a personal property tax bill there it's not considered my personal residence um which I do not receive one I just receive a real estate text I would just you talk to the town clerk they might be able to tell you what it takes to become a resident I can tell you the intent of the bylaw when it was passed by the town meeting was that they didn't want part-time owners and part-time residences residents to have accessory Apartments because they weren't there to supervise the the the the apartment dweller and I see and and that was the intent of the bylaw not that everybody you know there are a lot of people in this town that have four or five residents around the world so that's not unusual but the intent of the bylaw was that you would be a permanent resident and here most of the time now if you went to Florida for a couple of weeks in the winter or something that would be different but this is mostly absentee and once in a while here in the summer so that's not permanent resident in my in my opinion okay and you're going to have a hard time proving that okay um just for some go ahead Anthony Clarity yeah just for some clarity here um while we're discussing that I did look you do have a declaration of Homestead on the Winchester home on 68 on oh okay on Winchester and 32 ever okay okay that would be your you put that on your primary residence okay I mean now that's when you file your personal uh when you file your income tax what do you use for an address 296 Newton Street that's your personal income tax business location the business address that's my B that's our that's our location all of our correspondents goes it's our business address because that's where we actually have somebody there to receive documents all the time so your tax returns your personal tax returns say that address on it uh yes okay everything everything says that address because I mean again we get mail all over the place so we have to centralize it somewhere okay well I I I think we've pretty much clear this that uh isn't uh your primary residence yeah so I mean I'll just take the stove out so so for further clarification then the new laws that are coming into effect that are taking effect in February 2025 is that my understanding you can talk you can talk to the uh the building department about that we we don't we don't we don't give out advice like that we uh oh I thought it was with zoning so well it is it's not our zoning it's a state zoning law state law okay okay and when it's effective I don't know so uh this is this is where you're at right now okay you have an application for special permit M now we can take a vote or you can ask to withdraw it without prejudice um I don't think you're going to get a a vote that's going to get you the uh the special permit tonight in fact uh doesn't sound like it so perhaps we just withdraw well you you can withdraw it I do want to caution you um that you would not have exhausted your administrative remedies so you will be subject to $300 fines and you'll no have no right to appeal to a court of law if we took a vote and you didn't like our decision you could always appeal it I don't think you're going to be successful if you peel it but Michelle may I speak on on your behalf yeah yes you may sorry can I say something real quick well on her behalf you authorized me well we'll let you talk but I'm not sure I mean I'm here listen to all this I've been doing construction for 24 years and I've seen this many times uh Michelle and Luda are great friends of mine and I I friendly helped them with the house uh they bought this property exactly how it is right now uh it's not that they built an illegal apartment on their basement saying they did I mean but it's it seems like it's so difficult you know and they you're saying that they could pay a fine for $300 they bought this property had been there for many many years already and the town of yarm never did anything about it I'm just saying that you you didn't know about it they have sent letters no no no two years now that they purchased the property they bought it with with with with exactly how it is okay so I'm just saying it to you guys for the record that the town the town didn't do anything about it for many years they bought it the way it is and I think it's unfair to threaten her with the saying that it's they're going to have to pay $300 in fines and all that the town if the town could work with them work with them instead of charging them something that was done prior to the she doesn't qualify under the bylaw understand we're not we're not we're not trying to argue with you okay you're here for special permit doesn't appear that you you're going to qualify for that special permit now and the the building department was very fear to all of this they understood you can you can continue to talk with the building department that has nothing to do with us yeah all we do you you're asking for special permit is there anything else you'd like to add me no I mean I don't think there's anything else to add um I'm still unclear about if I should withdraw the application or have you guys vote no but well I mean so you're gonna find me $300 I'm not finding you anything that's not our department the building department he's the chief zoning enforcement officer The Building Commissioner he's the one who would assess any fines okay just so okay so i' I've worked well with them I have a good relationship you you you're that's great you can continue to work with them and if you can work something out with them that's fine but we don't think that you've met the criteria for a special permit tonight okay so what is your pleasure do you want us to take a vote or would you like to request to withdraw this without prejudice so I guess we have no choice but to withdraw it without president pres Prejudice since you guys are indicating the vote will be know there's really not much I can do well I'll tell you what before we before you do that I'm going to pull the board okay instead of taking an official vote I'm going to pull the board to see how they feel about this Anthony how do you feel about this would you support this if it went to a vote right now I would not dick no Jay no I would not and I would not so if we took a vote right now it would be zero in favor four against and I will vote against allowing her to withdraw without prejudice to what well we can have it we wait a minute we don't we don't say that yet until there's a request and then we need to have a motion needs to be seconded and then there's discussion on whether we allow it to be withdrawn without prejudice so it's procedurally uh is that what you wish to do is requested withdraw without prejudice ma'am I mean I don't even now I'm confused what it means is you would not receive a no vote tonight you would be able to if it were allowed you would be able to come back with another petition I see if we did give you a no vote tonight you'd be prohibited from coming back for two years I I I certainly don't want that to happen I mean I again I'm I I don't want I I don't want to be prohibited from reapplying if I can change the status of my residency and or if new zoning laws come into effect that make it easier well they're not into effect right now we're we're months away but there is my understanding that they're going to be into effect in February 2025 I'd be careful about predicting the future yeah um right that's what the building department told that again I I appreciate where you're coming from but what we deal with is these applications and we have an application in front of us special permit you've pulled we I've pulled the board which we don't generally do okay you've SE appreciate that you've heard that you do not not have the sufficient support to get your special permit my question to you would you like us to proceed with a vote or would you like to request that we allow you to withdraw this petition without prejudice yes I would like to request to withdraw the permission the application without prejudice please okay petitioner has requested that we allow her to withdraw her petition without prejudice is anybody prepared to make a motion I make a motion to allow her to withdraw without purchase okay is there a second to that motion I would second that motion okay second of motion discussion on the motion anybody prepared to discuss the request to withdraw and if so I I think it's the right thing to do is to give her a chance to go back and find out if she can apply so that's my opinion okay Anthony anything you'd like to comment on about this I don't yeah I'm I'm contemplating here because I don't think that you could reapply tomorrow right I don't think the circumstances would exist at we you could reapply tomorrow tomorrow let me repas that but if if all the conditions are exist as they are presently today that we know them so far to be it wouldn't make a a difference so it have to be under you know completely different action uh and change of ownership change of Homestead there's a a lot of changes that I would I think need to take place before we could consider it and approve so I I agree I don't know if I I agree I know makes I agree with that but I think I just want to give her the chance to go back talk to talk to building department and make whatever changes she wants to and decide whether she wants to come back doesn't mean she will doesn't mean she'll have everything she needs but I'm this willing to give her an opportunity to do that now I know that she may get that's up to them to find or not or to give her time or do something but but that's up to her to work out with building right yeah and that's that's the we we generally will give time and give difference for people to make those changes what I was really thinking there I was thinking probably too much in a legal sense rather than a zoning Board member sense of it if it's almost immaterial if we give if we allow it to withraw because we wouldn't be able to abide uh approve it anyway um even if it came back so but it really does all it really does is protect her uh from being able to come back within a twoyear period if we deny it um now under that under that entity yeah in terms of what exists on the ground right now she's been in violation for two years so if we allow her to withdraw this without prejudice basically it's like she never really applied and so the building department is sitting there with the latest notice with a threat of Court action which may result in fines of up to 300 $100 a day should they choose to do that now whether they do that they don't I have no idea but she would be exposed to that I I have a good relationship if I if I can interject sorry this is the hearing's closed right now oh sorry hearing's closed sorry but in terms of letting her allow to allowing her to withdraw without prejudice uh generally we will allow that unless the only time that we that we will not is if there are multiple hearings on a matter and it takes up a lot of our time and in the end it just appears that there may be some bad faith then we may push it to a vote and not allow it but this is her first time here and she does seem unsure about the bylaw whether she is or she isn't but I'm not going to say she is or she isn't she's represented she's a little unsure I'll take her at her word she's aware she has these violations she's aware what the violations are she's been in contact with the building department the building department has given her options one of which is to remove a stove what it may come down to is you remove the stove or you get fine $300 a debt now I don't want to speak for them but that's what could happen so whether she wants to go that route and compl apply building code which would bring her into compliance um because it would not be considered a habitable dwelling down there without cooking facilities um then she could do that but if we do allow her to withdraw without prejudice uh it it would be like she just didn't come here she could reapply tomorrow but that doesn't protect her from action it doesn't stay anything with the building department from proceeding finding her or bringing her into court and forcing her to comply I've made a motion and it's been seconded we have a motion's been seconded any other comment Anthony you look like you're thinking there but uh um uh I with withhold the rest of my comments okay dick I know you were reluctant to allow her to withdraw without prejudice I am I'm not sure that I'm convinced that she's been forthright in the process from the beginning of the violation notification through the second notice of violation and until today and if she were serious about this and did not hire an attorney to represent her she came here with without representation but I don't think she read the bylaw and number one in the bylaw is that she be a permanent resident and that's the intent of the bylaw is not for people to have six residences and and bounce around and be here when they choose to be here it's the residents the permanent residence is here to supervise the tenant in the as an excessive apartment she didn't understand that she thought she did I think she has the right to have a chance to make it work I think she's had a lot of time yeah and I I cannot vote to uh continue any further discussion to withdraw without only only to Dix Point um I'm I'm fairly certain her husband's an attorney he's an immigration attorney but my understanding that you know the the that doesn't necessarily mean that you understand the ins and outs of zoning and land use but then he knows then he knows he should have hired attorney maybe more than anybody well that's neither here nor there right now but um we vote any further comments gentlemen hello all those in favor of allowing the petitioner to withdraw her petition without prejudice please signify by saying I I I Anthony oh sorry I any opposed I am opposed okay it carries three to one that petition to withdraw is allowed it merely requires a majority to uh it doesn't need a super majority to withdraw it Mainely requires a majority vote so uh you are allowed to your petition has been withdrawn with Prejudice um I would suggest to you that you get back with the building department try to figure this out okay so you do not get yourself fined the last thing the town of yth wants to do not only their residents their full-time residents or their part-time residents is subject them to daily fines for zoning violations they don't like to do that they don't want to do that but given the number of correspondents that you've received from the building department and the last one stating that there's going to be some pending court action against you you could be subject to fines of up to $300 a day so you are on notice of that not only through this letter but by this board you understand that is that a yes ma'am you lost your mic sorry um I was muted um yes okay yes all right well that's all for tonight thank you very much y thank you you and Michelle just so you know there is a violation in here on the conservation department too so you might want to make sure you follow up on that too I'm working with conservation with Britney okay okay everything I appreciate it thank you thank you for your help wasent to you yester we if the matter had gone forward okay we would have taken all of this into consideration a funeral okay no procedurally it didn't go forward because she didn't meet the criteria okay all right many more issues okay well we're not going to take those up tonight but thank you ma'am okay thank you okay I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from August 22nd we have a second you approve the minutes I'll second three of here three of us were here okay that's enough uh all those in favor to approve the minutes I I I I'll stain three to zero they pass is that the only minutes we have motion to adjourn so moved second second all those in favor I I