##VIDEO ID:D9ortEAShUo## seeing it on the big screen but I'd like to see we need to see the board like to see myself on the big screen so I know who I'm talking to I always find myself interesting here we go all right so this is the regularly scheduled meeting of this the armouth zoning board of appeals this August 8 2024 as required by uh Governor Healey I offer the following you'll forgive me I'm a bit short on breath my name is Steve D young and I chair this wonderful uh yam zoning board of appeals we're now going to convene the August dat meeting as required by General La chapter 30A sections 18 to through 25 and pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and this is the title of the ACT an act relative to extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency as extend ended by chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 the public are able to attend this meeting either in person or via the alternative Public Access members of the public may watch the meeting live on channel 18 or watch and or participate in the meeting hosted in the zoom format the meeting notice provides necessary instructions to join the meeting via zoom and you'll please note that audio video and screen screen sharing functions are disabled for all attendees via Zoom you may request to participate by using the raise hand function and as soon as we can we'll get to you with that I'm going to now take a roll call to make sure we have a proper quarum and we'll start uh to my left please John Manton are you present present and uh Mr Sean iGo are you present present and Mr Jay frer are you present present and the handsome man to my right is Mr Richard Martin dick Martin probably known by everybody in this town he's present handsome though and I Steve what did you say not handsome but okay well Debbie would challenge that and I uh am Steve D young and I'm as you can see present in at least body I'm not sure about anything else so we have four matters that are on our agenda uh as noticed in the public format we'll start with that of five 118 that is Christine megason and I'm not going to read the whole description because it's not necessary and you'll see why in a moment but it does concern property located at 811 Route 28 sou yoth mass is anybody here interested in this petition seeing you are okay well I'm sorry because we learned that there was a request today in because a town board has yet to act for a continuance or I'm sorry for withdrawal without prejudice what that means is that a petitioner we we Grant these all throughout the year so if you ever interested you watch us and we regularly grant them when every petitioner just about every time a petitioner has done so I don't know how long I've served on this board probably about 15 plus years and we've granted everyone uh save for less than five over the of course in my career and it's a a a withdrawal uh without prejudice means that the petitioner can withdraw if the board so grants that Authority not have any hearing on the merits of the petition and potentially file it or file for Relief at a later date and if they do that then they would again have to pay to Ren notice the world and any AB buts or anybody else that has an interest publish it in the newspaper and the like just as you apparently got your notice to be here tonight okay so again I want to just tell you you're welcome to chime in when we consider whether or not we're going to Grant this request and I'll invite you to do so after the board has discussed it but 999 t% certain the board's going to Grant it because we always try to be cooperative with people that are presenting okay all right so does anybody care to discuss this EST by by the way this this request to continue without prejudice is in connection with property uh located I guess I said it already 81128 South mass and uh it's a a letter received by attorney Paul Todd who has requested this uh withdrawal without prejudice as as you may remember this was on in July and so this is hearing number two and this board doesn't like to go more than a couple of meetings before we actually have to hear it and I think that's what prompted the request to withdraw it at this time okay uh John do you have any questions or discussion you want to have before moving along and Sean how about you no I'm prepared to make a motion that we allow the petitioner to withdraw without prejudice I just made need to make notes as you know I go second second no I already heard that I'm sorry sorry I whispered the third all right now uh since they have moved and seconded uh dick before moving on to the substance of the motion did you have any position you wanted to let us know or just move right to the motion after okay to September 5th okay I am going to ask that if the two of you would like to say anything please feel free one of the other of you to come to the microphone I saw have two hands that I if you don't you don't have to you don't have to but if you want to say anything before we move it on to the vote please feel free okay good enough so uh anybody want to have any discussion on the motion made by Mr uh I go and seconded by Mr Frey to allow the withdrawal of this permit uh request uh without prejudice hearing none we'll do it by roll call Mr Martin hi Mr fre hi Mr iigo hi Mr mnon hi and I'm an I so that carries unanimously five to zero to allow withdrawal without prejudice sorry we got you all the way out here but the good news is you get home uh to see the kickoff of our and the early play of our newest quarterback I better get home too cuz this got to be nervous about my fantasy football team petition 5122 is Ursula king of 36 constants a and West charmouth Mass property located in a zoning District R40 also within the aquafer protected excuse me Protection District in zone 2 the applicant seeks a special permit pursuant to bylaw section 407 or in the alternative of variant under 47.3 F concerning setbacks and 407. 36 minimum uh floor area to create a 312 square foot accessory apartment who's presenting on this tonight please would you come right up to the uh the table those microphones will give you a lot of selch back if you're not careful okay and uh don't don't tell us what they I welcome the hand about and I'll read it into the record if you would everybody's going to need one thank you thank you thank you paperwork is the bane of our Collective existence and you'll forgive me but I have to get mine in order so we can think seriously about your petition and would you mind telling me uh who's who he's the Builder and I'm the owner all right and you know because you're wonderful people and I I'm sure every Builder is somebody I should know I I don't know them all but let's start with your name first if Ursa King all right Ursa we have people that are home really are watching this and so they'd like to hear who everybody is okay that's not to put you on the defensive so don't feel so and you are I am Tulio Pera he with P Pereira yeah okay all right who's going to present tonight you want him to do it don't you I knew it go right ahead and tell us what you'd like to say about this petition please all right so what we're looking forward to do here is she only has one specific spot to build a dwelling unit so she lives by herself but she has a two bedroom uh house but only uses one she's willing to give up one bedroom and build a Welling unit on the back of the house which is the the only spot that she can really build is there to a few reasons like the meter is on the left side you got the setback you can't do more than what it is now because of the wetlands all the way to the back so we did as furthest like as far as we could do backwards um yeah so that's going to be for rental purposes of nursing or eventually U when I am I'm I mean I'm old now but when I'm am older I might need some body to be there to assist me because I'm by myself so that will be the second reason so that that's the reason the building the reason why we asking for uh for variant is because um the the way that they build the house originally back in the 50s it's not aligned completely with the land so so more more you build backwards less setback you get because the house is against it um and I couldn't really do you know a corner like make it a corner a building would just not look right like according you know just look so so bad and uh all the neighborhood everything is nicely and and squ done so you wouldn't just fit in on the on how the neighborhood looks so my points that I handed out to you is pretty much those six reasons that I that I came up with are you know what I just talked about the home alignment uh which we're trying to maintain that that's why we we going into the setbacks um the utility constraints is the reason why we can't build to the left so we can't open up the building this way because all their utility for some reason I know they don't do that now but back in the day they did it in the back of the house right under the kitchen so I can't build this way and have the 350 square footage um the looks already talked about the environmental constraints I can't be bu more out so I can reach the 350 so I can't even go back more that was the limit for the um because she has Wetlands all the way to the back of the of the property how close is the Wetland what's that how close is the Wetland well with the building or or currently currently currently it's about uh 8 7 75 78 ft appro how close will it be when the construction's done if it's allowed it's going to be 60 58 60 somewhere around there Conservation Commission yes they already passed through that they already approved it everything no and and let me ask before we go too far a field what is it you're asking for an accessory apartment yes who's the family related accessory member I don't have one oh well they changed in Yarmouth yeah so Yarmouth just came this year with a new thing where the dwelling unit does not have to be uh there's no family member not for rental long-term rental and then eventually like I said for somebody to assist me all right okay so I'm sorry I interrupted please continue no problem um yeah and then the other the other variance that we asking is for the minimum ground disruption I mean the minimum ground the cuz for dwelling units you need 350 and we only have 312 and I can't go any sideways anymore because I'll be even more into the into the setback and the other way again I have I have the meters and all that so that's why I'm asking for the other um permission there and then as far as you know my last point there is this community benefit I mean I know we know that uh we are in a shortage of year round rental properties and that's what she's looking to do to open up at least one person to be able to live you around okay those are my six point with six points that we came up with well thank you very much so now as I described to you before we started the meeting board members are going to have questions Okay so going to start down here to my right we we mix it up every meeting we'll start tonight with Mr Martin down this end please any questions of our petition at M uh not really it's actually uh this meeting preparation that you did was excellent and explains a number of reasonings that I might have otherwise had questions about uh dealing with the uh wetland in back and the Aesthetics of trying to keep that line the same because you could probably do it legally if it was just like a foot and half further in yeah um but I can understand the reasoning behind that uh and and the other uh things that you mentioned about minimal ground disruption and and benefit benefit of the apartment it looks like she's going to use it for a good use and eventually herself maybe so uh I I think it's a it's a uh very good proposal and I have no questions per se thank you Mr M Mr frea um I guess my only concerns are are one parking and secondly the uh the size of the unit um one of our requirements is you have adequate parking for for two spaces for additional can you describe what what you plan on doing for the parking I have actually POS ability on both sides I have a garage and next my house on that side is room for two parking spots and then on the side where the unit would have the entrance is also room for one parking spot so I have several parking possibilities other than my garage okay and you don't have parking there today correct it's the parking on the right hand side sometimes when I have guests they park on the when you face the house on the left it's a grassy area okay is that a permanent parking lot or is it just on the grass no it's just on the grass grass okay um and then as far as the space goes the size um I was trying to understand so you're con you're converting you're this is going to be a two-bedroom accessory just two bedrooms combined one yeah that was a little confusing so you'll have one bedroom in the accessory dwelling and one in the house the bedroom that's being converted in the house is there any way that that could be included in the accessory apartment because that would get you over the 350 minimum it could if I have to but I'd rather not okay it just may be something that we need I wanted to make an office out of that room but if I need it you know if you say I can't do it otherwise I will right um I and then uh it's going to be for rentals those are my two main concerns parking and the side was thinking of extending it further but when I talked to the wetlands people they said no this is the limit and like he said I can't put it to the side because of all the meters how about an adding a foot if you could add a foot or two to the um to the left side in the back which would be the inner part is that possible no because that would look really weird You' cut in so there's a you see what the meter is kind of listed there is that what that circle is is that the meter that's the meter and all the gas lines and all that so if you move one foot there you'll be hitting like right in that spot and that's also the kitchen window and all that so aesthetically looking you'll be covering the window that is out there too right and then they also have the stairs on the side that also protrude out a little bit extra into space too so okay that's all I had for questions but those are my concerns okay Mr AO yeah I I want to understand this plan in the back is that a bulkhead on the back um are you talking about on the back of the proposed Edition no this is is is lighter going out to the back of the house are you talking about what's that little what's that little square thing right there is that a deck buad is it a covered bulkhead no bulkhead is pointing to the structure right 36 number 36 what what is this off the back of the addition that little square area that you have there mhm yeah so that's a this a slider so not a slider it's a some type of a struck deck it's a legal deck because you got to have a landing to go back okay and what's beyond the deck what's beyond that a set of stairs is that why the Conservation Commission isn't letting you go back any further because of those stairs in the deck this well partially yeah the only why can't we put those on the side and you can add some space out the back well if I put them on the side here I could have it on the side so here she has you know all our stuff I could do it on the side but then this is where pretty much as the setup goes I should have also printed that out um I we have the kitchen going into the area that's why I have it all the back where the bedroom would be next to shall I show that well so this is why the reason we put it like yeah you see if we if you want us to look at something we have to have it physically oh okay so that we can make it part of our record it's not that we don't want to see every picture you have in your phone your grandkids or whatever put them so you have a visual on the place yeah no we can't do that got a plan here I think so but it seems to me that you should be able to build out further out back another thing your order conditions call for 263 Square ft you've got 300 2 on your plan is the Conservation Commission aware that you're doing 312 so the existing the existing bathroom we're going to include into the addition that's why it's going to be 312 I gave up the bathroom so it can be included in the unit so so what is the square footage of the addition so the existing bathroom the house the addition is going to be about 264 but there is an existing bathroom which will include into the the new unit and make that part of the addition therefore you'll be a total of 312 so we don't have an exact measurement on what it's going to be the bathroom or the addition no no the addition yes we do on the on the drawings there you have the floor plan from the engineer well you tell me um I'm not I'm not presenting you are no yeah uh on there's no page number but the addition will be I've got one of one sheet Mo a00 yeah the X100 oh okay I didn't get down far enough thanks or if I did I overlooked them I guess I did see them I apologize thanks Jay all right go ahead sir I'm sorry yeah um so that as you can see that there's an existing bathroom which if you look at the the plan it's included in the addition and that bathroom is about 6 by6 um and then the addition itself it's 24 by 12 minus that square footage of the bathroom so 24 by 12 is what 240 and 48 288 and what did concom say you could have 263 or 261 24 by 13 ex well okay you know we have no authority over con the Conservation Commission okay so we can't obviate or change any of their requirements I I guess okay all right now and so you want to go out that way cuz you want don't want to interfere with an electrical service why can't you go out and Jog the end of that building into the backyard because again there's a window out there I'll be covering pretty much that kitchen view light everything I I don't mean I I I don't mean covering the back of the house are you sping I mean or is it wet l i mean coming out here and put a little jog here right here your your big kitchen windows back here right I'm talking about right here to meet your minimum requirement the bathroom window the back of the new edition the back half Edition why can't you jog it in a couple feet side goes into the wet to the side like that the wet I say so like kind of like in the in the window but out back further yes that's what you mean like a square that bedroom living room is that it make it more of an right here come out here and Jog it here but what we're going to try and do is one person speak at a time okay um well I I I'll tell you my concerns I think the layout could be better all right but that's up to you secondly you're asking for a variance here for two two things one is the setback side setbacks which are not allowed under the bylaw and secondly you need to have a minimum of 350 Square ft now you put together the reasons why you can't do it I'm not quite sure that I'm persuaded that you can't do it all right so I I'm I'm not really persuaded in granting a variance relief here tonight so far I think you could kind of go back to the drawing board and make this work and I don't know why you need to extend a deck and then a set of stairs out into a wetland buffer zone you're giv up a lot right there to really have nothing you could take those stairs and put them on the side you can build out probably another couple feet on there mhm okay um but the other varience there's no way to get out of it well you're a sideline yeah I agree with that okay but and that part the the what you saying there your your setbacks yeah what what concerns me is is if we start acessing to giving away setbacks for these accessory apartments and we say yes to you who are we going to say no to ni you know maybe there has to be uh go back to the drawing board and figure figure out a different spot on the lot to put this like back where that wood deck is I I talked to my I talked to my engineer the way that we're building it and um all of the rooms inside the dwelling if space is is the issue that you're thinking about they all go accordance to what the requirements are because it's going to be like an open living space kind of idea um so if if that's the main issue is the 312 312 square footage versus the 350 we keep it this way because of course there's cost shortage as well uh we increase the building also a lot bigger spend a lot more um that's also part ask this question too because Jay brought up a good point about the parking how are you going to get into this unit if you look at the front of our house yeah on the on the right side mhm where exactly where the that's little entrance yeah it's 8T it's 8 feet off the sideline that's a structure mhm and then the front of the of of that's gravel parking right there already for two cars essentially you could use that as the main and then walk around the front yard to the side no walk up to the right uh just get off the car Rock to your right where are you putting the driveway um so you see where it says uh septic po septic right there the the little line towards the septic in the what sheet are you referring to now um okay that's fine I got it through the just bouncing around B yeah sorry no it's okay it's it's not your sometimes that's how you have to do it we're talking now about the site plan yeah I I see the existing driveway right there but where are you going to put the driveway to fit two cars to access that unit that's in the back right corner so we got two options again one is gravel in front of the house where in front of the house by back by the street along the street it's already it's already gravel there it's already people park there so you're going to put two cars along the street is that what you're telling us it's one person but yeah if you need two cars yes okay or if not she has plenty of space on that garage area to add on to two more driving areas too so she got space to do either either either way well I'm not sold on parking putting parking along the street okay and the option that she's thinking is if you look on the right corner of her property there MH that part also was an option to put do you want to have two driveways in the house two sep dri like a more of a gravel driveway you know bylaw requires the finished look to look that of a single family home not of a duplex okay so that's a concern that I have as well if you're planning on putting a driveway over there so if you're right now you're going to have to park on the left to walk to the right side of the house it it just doesn't appear to me to be independent of the house itself and the people living in the house are going to be seeing you every day walk by the front window with your groceries unless you're going to go all the way around the back or unless you're going to put a drive driveway over here unless you're going to put a driveway along the street yeah so we got those are the options either the street the right side towards that hallway could kind of go right into the house um those are the two preferable spots if they're allowed okay all right and the backup will be along across the way okay thank you I have nothing further okay Mr Manton I don't have any additional questions um but I do share some of the same concerns as the other board members parking certainly uh that was the first thing uhu that came to mind for me um as well as the size you know uh we do have a minimum of 350 square feet so um you know uh other than that um I'm okay but those are kind of two big concerns of mine so that's all I have well I I have major concerns uh that first of all I don't know that uh the uh constant Avenue is H built to its full layout or not there's just nothing in front of me to tell me that so for me to say that it's perfectly okay to utilize two parking spaces that may not even be subject to this homeowner's control is of great concern to me now I don't believe it's I believe it's probably is built to the to the road layout but we've seen Road layouts that far exceed uh what's actually paved on the ground and I'm seeing specifically a notation here edge of pavement which you know causes me a little bit of concern particularly I I also see and it it says slope bit curb what does that mean do you know let see where you're looking at let me find you first hey two minutes I think it's a yeah I think it's a sloped concrete Maybe by two minutes yeah okay oh but two minutes com concrete okay all right that's fine uh in in any event I I I not losing this concern because we we've watched this before where petitioners have come in and they've wanted to build things within the road layout well the road layouts the road layout you can't build on a road layout even if it's not paved to the fullest extent we would give often give a dimensional relief but not necessarily do we have the authority nor would we ever Grant relief to park on a municipally owned or private road either way yeah that definitely not something so I I'm going to work on the assumption that uh it's likely that this is the uh Road layout but I'm also looking at a complete width of 40 feet uh and we know I mean is it 40 feet somebody tell me do you think it's 40 ft out there because when I drive out there I don't have a tight measure but I could L 4 layout is 40t what the layout is 40 I pay is you know we were talking about uh it being on 30 now now we're moving uh cars into a uh setback a front setback that uh I don't think that's what the front set back was intended for but I'm not sure we can't allow it uh I'm also very troubled by the size of uh the unit uh to Grant any relief and it's a minimum um is just to me I mean I know these apartments are new we're all trying to Grapple with them we all are trying to accomplish the same goal uh of U getting more units available for aord affordable living in this town what concerns me is that those minimum requirements are pretty minimum and to take away a single uh you know foot uh is difficult for the occupant so even though we're trying to piggyback a bathroom uh that is in the existing structure somehow to the total uh I'm not sure that that works but uh moving along where is it that we are somehow knowledgeable uh that this is a uh a base a bedroom that's going to be given up that would have to be a condition well I I mean how do you enforce that condition yeah I was just noticing the fact that the building department that may be a problem for you because they're going to look at that uh new living room so-called on the plan as being a bedroom because it has just a regular door and a closet yeah well losing the bathroom just because of that reason too because bathroom wouldn't matter oh okay yeah I I mean if we're going to Grant any relief on this sort of a petition I think we got to include some way by which we can either on an annual basis by anual basis whatever it may be can enforce this provision because there's nothing here uh and what's the septic system good for is it two or three bedrooms two bedrooms two bedrooms yeah so the existing SE septic is two bedrooms there are two bedrooms right yeah okay has Health weighed in on this what's that has the health department weigh in on this the they going to be next after next yeah so goes do when they issu an occupancy per as well that it's only going to be able to be a two-bedroom yeah they have to give up a bedroom they're required to do that they're aware of that but these are also supposed to be inspected annually and they can only be year round leases but they are existing two bedrooms right they're on notice that they have to eliminate a bedroom so if I put in a futon instead of a a four poster bed does that make it a two-bedroom or three-bedroom when this addition is done it's all about the door I'm sorry it's all about the door no I understand we've watched that happen dick over the years people get cutesy with us on that and I'm not suggesting that of this petitioner I'm just saying to you I I mean I I find it remarkable that we've allowed this bylaw to pass the way it has passed with these kind of unanswered issues uh and in a uh in a manner that strikes me as putting the poor occupant who may be have no other housing uh alternative available but is expected to live in 312 Square ft uh in some fashion uh is is there an allowance for shared cooking is that is that allowed under the new bylaw it's got its own kitchen yeah he has he has he's going to have a kitchen he's gonna have it's going to have a kitchen within 312 Square F feet stud yeah it's it's a small kitchen for one person again to cook whatever they want it's going to be a window on there um you're GNA but it's going to be more of an open space that's why we're not trying to put too many walls in there because can be like a open space kind of idea the only wall that will be there besides the bathroom obviously in the in their back closet is going to be for a little bit of the cabinet so it's going to be like a yeah like a dwelling unit for one all right yeah like a studio studio no that's fine if that's what's going to be in there and that's allowed by the building department I don't take any position on it I do see however not less than three I'm going to condition number six not less than 350 sare ft I go to condition number seven it says there'll be at least two off street parking uh spaces on the premises and potentially whether we can enforce it or not potentially three bedrooms in play here not by you you you you may be the most law abiding individual in the world but this passes along this this grant of relief in this instance under the bylaw passes along with the property ownership change of ownership and as a consequence we don't have a lot to say about it after the fact and and then you know maybe it gets inspected annually maybe it doesn't I don't know but what I do know is it's of great concern to me that we could potentially have uh six adults living within this property and uh each one having a car and these cars lining up and down a uh very uh narrow uh residential Road uh and that's something I don't want to see happen you know is there a way to have that proofed or is there a way to I'm sorry is that a condition that we maybe let say we got dis approved so you can show you that she's not using that for B there's no doubt in my mind that this very fine petitioner would obey each and every condition replaced on this property I'm not concerned about her I'm concerned about the future of this town and the future of this property as it relates to the town okay and that's what I'm charged with when the board of Selectmen appoint me here to this is to make sure that we're doing the right thing for the town I want this bylaw to work I I I'm disappointed in the way it's drafted but it is what it is I I don't get the final say on that so we're going to enforce it as it says and as I'm seeing it I unless somebody nobody can tell me I'm wrong am I right that it it requires uh uh two parking spaces for this uh unit yeah and two parking spaces for the unit that's within the home and I see that is four parking spaces on premises not on the street but on premises so I may be in the minority I may be in the minority of only one of us here tonight and you're probably going to hope that I am if we decide to bring this thing to a vote because otherwise you will lose the petition I am not satisfied that there is sufficient parking here with its current layout okay if you can tell me uh some other solution to it um I I'm willing to listen to it you know when you come back to us with with another solution but that to me is the biggest sticking problem because I can force see the future here just like when I try to go out to the beaches on the North side and I can't get down the street because people can't get in the parking lot so they Park their car on the street and these narrow 25 foot wide roads despite having a 40 foot Municipal layout or planned layout are built only to 25 ft and you can't get around them so we have near accidents of traffic congestion that's completely unnecessary and that's my biggest concern uh and the fact that I see it as a minimum at 350 and I don't know I I I agree with Mr AO that there's a pretty simple solution to it I I think it's that that the solution requires some thinking that might necessitate a relocation of the porch uh or the you know the decking or a portion of the decking and that may be unfortunate but I think it's important that there be at least 350 ft in this apartment so that's my thought on it now that's just my thought we're not we don't have a motion we don't anything else a couple other questions concerns I had and I agree with you about the driveway I didn't really give that much thought I think that's a problem uh it's also showing in a a uh Stockade fences which apparently uh I'm not sure whose they are but it looks like they're they could be encroachments on both sides of the property uh so the fences in other words are shown on both of your Butter's land and not on yours so if they belong to them and they put them up that's fine if they they're yours that could be another issue uh another way you know to get your square footage I mean on those as as my the other members said there's ways probably around this uh the proposed addition you know you add two feet or whatever it is a uh to the left and you'll get your square footage uh that would be one way to do it uh I do think you're going to have the problem with the so-called second living room in the house though uh maybe if you opened up that linen closet or whatever then you'd have a wide enough doorway so that that wouldn't be considered a bedroom uh but uh there are some issues I could make a case open too so just remove the door period yeah have that a case open you'd have to you'd have to incorporate the closet too there's no room there in the hall there's no room in just the hall to make it a wider casement yeah you'd have to incorporate incorporate something door and just do case open consider a what case open no door that would be considered yeah that would be fine but it has to be a certain width yeah oh okay Mr Martin before we move on to what anybody might have if we can look at the same plan you we just talked to on the easly sideline I don't understand these CBS the concrete bounds yeah the CB is noted on the ab but's property not where the fence location is it almost appears like this you you know built well within the ABS property but I I could be wrong on that it's probably why the fences went up where they did yeah and well the same is true on the on the Westerly side uh we're looking at a CB there uh at the at the southernly end of The Stockade Fence and that runs up again within not with not on this property owner's property but I I don't see them counting that as any Seline number or anything it's just to their sideline so I just point that out okay does anybody else have anything they want to say before I move it open to uh open it up to public I do about the parking or anything that you want to no I think you know I spent already $7,000 on all the different uh Wetland experts and whatever and I cannot afford anymore so if you decide that we can't do it I can't do it okay well I can tell you right now I will not be able to support this position petition is presented um and so without my vote it's going to fail well because I've said my P place if it were just you we have a full board tonight we have a full board I'm sorry right so okay so if two members say no then it's a I thought we only had four tonight but we have five um so excuse me if you want to pull the board I'm a no see why this is important is because if you want us to bring it to a vote tonight and then you should change your mind or find some other fortune that allows you to consider it you'd have a a a a two-year window before you could bring it back before us versus if we tell you in advance that you're not going to win you could consider asking us to allow you to withdraw it without prejudice to you bringing it back before us whenever you wanted to you want us to bring it to a vote yeah okay well before we do does anybody in our audience care to speak in favor of this petition if so please come to the microphone tell us who you are before I can go to a vote this is what we need to do does anybody in our audience care to speak in opposition to this petition if so please come to the microphone tell us who you are seeing none on either call we now close it to the Public's input and open it up the board discussions deliberations there's been a request that we bring it bring it to a vote irrespective of the uh the building Mr chairman um might I suggest that we uh have the petitioner rethink that I I think she unless she's planning on appealing our decision um well that's up to her but I mean I you know I we can't give you legal advice you need to decide this on on your own if you'd like to take a step back so you can consider whether or not you want us to vote on it tonight that's fine we'll go to the next matter if you want us to go forward with a vote we'll do that if you want to request to withdraw without prejudice likely you would be granted that about for a second maybe you you'll come well no I I can't afford to add this and tear of this and whatever I just thought a simple addition so I can have one studio rental and if I can't do that that's that and I talked to Mark forest and he told me we support this and blah blah blah you know okay so you you'd like us to go forward with a vote I'd like to make a motion that please Mr we allow the uh petition as requested without condition right without condition and that's a a very second I'll second that that was Mr uh Martin yeah all right there's been a motion made to Grant the petition without uh condition uh does anybody care to have a uh any discussion on the motion yes please I think given the discussion that we've had the question question s have gone back and forth the petitioner and what's been presented here tonight the petitioners failed to demonstrate they've met the criteria for a variance under our bylaw okay anybody else anybody else I agree with Mr Iger okay so on that motion we'll do a roll call uh Mr Martin in favor of the motion or against nay Mr frea in favor of the motion nay Mr iGo in favor of the motion nay Mr Manon in favor of the motion motion n and I'm a nay that c carries five zero in favor five against that motion that petition then fails thank youve to uh wait a minute move to deny the request for special permit I think there's one of those two isn't there two forms of relief here I believe so oh was this yeah it's both there move to deny the uh request for special permit all right Mr AO moves is there a second second I'm done Mr Freer second yes okay discussion anyone and hearing none uh I do have some just a comment on that the petition as presented does not qualify for special permit under our bylaw it would only qualify for a variance therefore it should be denied okay anybody else hearing none Mr Manon no are you in favor of the motion to Grant the special permit oh no no n n sorry you're nay then Mr iGo nay Mr Frey nay and Mr Martin nay I'm a nay as well that again fails on a zero in favor and five against uh vote thank you very much sir no problem always good to see sorry I got confused if I could go you're fine you're fine sorry all right gentlemen until next time all right these are going to need to be addressed probably at some point in the future but you know with the next town meeting but we'll get there we'll get there through it brings us to our next petition probably everybody running home right now I somehow have lost my uh here we go I got it fact my agenda every time yeah we have a petition 5123 Janice O'Reilly Trustee of 71 Acres Avenue reality trust concerning property located at 71 Acres Avenue West Jou mass that property is located in an r25 zoning District our applicant seeks special permit pursuant to bylaw section 104.3 point2 subp paragraph 2 on the alternative variance under 203.50 of our zoning bylaws the side setback relief to raise the ridge of a pre-existing non-conforming uh structure uh hello you're not Mr Hy he's not Mr Hy Mr Hy came with me to the Conservation Commission Dave Manning came with me to this he's my contractor no it just says on my list that Mr Mr heal's presenting this petition he's a lot taller than I am I can't help him I not his handsome though oh thank I want you to know that I'll tell them all right why don't you tell us all about your petition if you would I can start it and then Dave will have to fill in the details so I um apparently I have a non-conforming structure at my family's owned the house since 1971 and when my dad put the um deck on I think it now wouldn't qualify for the setback but it did at the time so I I'm going to use terminology that I know that it was grandfathered in so that makes my structure not nonconforming so shame on you I know blame my dad um so now what I just wanted to do is just to expand the living space and so we're moving the house out forward um 10 feet which I guess then raises the ridge which I just learned what a ridge is um and so I have a second floor right now but it's not dormered so we're going to dmer the second floor as part of that all righty want get more bedroom space probably huh no cuz I already have a bedroom up there and so it would just make it bigger yeah I really what I really need is living space and storage so it's going to give me more storage space man it's going to give her a nice will somebody plan that for my bedroom because my wife takes up a lot of the closet yeah well all right Mr Manton do you have any questions about Petition of the SE so you you bring in the not only up in the for the going out ft that's the living space so the living room and the um kitchen will both go out 10 ft yeah all right thanks yeah I don't have anything else dier uh as far as the footprint goes the footprints going to stay in the same spot you're just bringing that existing footprint we're just doing 10 by 26 within the footprint right now but it's just going to add a 10 ft on okay so you've got 50 ft right now so that'll bring it out to 40 is that correct yeah Y and just going up no further questions thank you Mr Frey I'm sorry I'm I'm a little confused so you are adding you are adding house to the front of the house yes we're bringing out the 10 feet 10 feet out and then you're adding a second second floor with Dormers well the second floor is already there you're adding putting dormers on it yeah we're putting a dorm on and is there any change to the side setback just a we're actually when we extend the deck we're getting a further away from the non-conforming part we're at 92 right now we'll be at 95 with the extension you're bringing the deck out the same distance you're bringing the house we're planning to if we can yeah the setback is going to be from 50 down to 40 yep I don't have anything else thank you thank you Mr mtin uh I can't think of anything it's a nice looking plan version seven I think it's a uh uh I don't see that we're looking for too much yeah so I'm good thank you you okay yep okay would you help me again please the the non-conformity that's going going to be reduced is the front deck so we're not we're not going any more non-conforming than we already are the house the deck right now is 92 it'll two to the sideline y okay and it'll be 95 to the sideline of the new deck so I think it's a special permit is that just because they're going higher yeah yeah so special permit on4 is that that what we're looking at MH yeah it's a it's a changed to a non-conforming structure um okay so and and it's going to come 10 feet into the 50ft front yard set back now so you're still well beyond the 30 foot right and you're going to go up but you're not going to go out right and you're not going to impose uh any new uh nonconformity by agreeing to by uh building this it's in fact going to reduce nonconformity am I accurately stating that correct okay you forgive me I have to take notes because my I don't want to have to watch video for the next week you know particularly since I can't understand what I say in the video all right does anyone in our audience care to speak in favor of this petition if ple if so please come to the microphone let me hear what you have to say seeing none does anyone in our audience care to speak in opposition to this petition please come to the microphone let's see what you have to say seeing n none we now close it to the Public's input on the petition we open it up the board discussion and deliberation um there may still be questions but uh uh no public input at this point does anybody have any other questions about petitions no questions i' I'd be willing to support it and make a motion to support it with with uh without any conditions I believe it uh I don't think it reduces the non-conformity I think it just maintains the non-conformity doesn't increase it for sure right correct so in your motion you can could we put us a condition or that the wooden deck on the left side of the house will be no closer than 9'5 Ines to the sideline setback 92 right now the existing one is 95 the existing one is 92 9.2 right 9.2 okay so you want it to 9.5 well the house is at a slight angle so when a difference of you know 12 Ines versus 10/10 you know so is it 9.2 or is it 9 foot2 in it's 9.2 okay and and you're now suggesting it will be no close of the 9.5 correct all right you're you're actually narrowing it in that back point now the house is the front a skew to the lot line so the front is going to be 95 because it's extended out but isn't the back of it still at 92 yeah that's why I wanted clarification on that that I don't have to have the whole deck at 9.5 which would mean I'd have to narrow that's I'm trying to clarify that's what I'm trying to get to is that I believe you want it at the con contain it Contin at 92 yeah I does that make sense well that's not what the representation was by your Builder I said that wrong yeah yeah okay so I just going to want an will but I think you really should have this plan could be a little bit more precise especially on this right here we've got this what's on the ground which is existing but we don't have anything that's proposed and we'd like to have an asbo for our uh file you can bring us one of those when you're done y yeah okay yep no problem at all okay so you're just uh so why don't we just say it'll be no closer than 9.2 is that fair enough that that's yeah I'm going to accountant numbers mean something get G for a few inches here pretty sure that's what you want yeah for correcting thank you that's okay and just for clarity we're talking about 92 to the uh to the left left sideline I got to I got to do this in my head it takes a minute for me to figure out directions here that's ni so that I guess we just call it easly sideline does that make sense it's East yeah or souly what whatever anybody wants to call it I don't know the comp I'm going to call it sly I guess de will be no closer than 92 on subtly buing line Southeast I guess it is the sun yeah all right we have a motion on the on the floor uh that is presented by Mr Frey which is to approve the petition as presented with the only condition being that it be no close to the 9.2 uh to the I'm going to call it souly um a budding line that the deck would be no closer than that yeah I'm sure deck here okay yeah it says deck here but I second that is that is that satisfactory for the read for your motion okay Mr mtony you second that all right does the board care to have any discussion on the motions so made before uh proceeding uh to a uh vote Yes that the petitioner has demonstrated that he meets the criteria into 10 14.3.2 and that the addition that he's proposing is not going to be any more detrimental to the neighborhood than the existing structure that's there now okay anybody else I hope wholeheartedly agree I know how I'm voting so now but we're going to do a roll call vote okay Mr Martin I Mr Frey hi Mr AO hi Mr Manon hi Mr D young is an I uh you know we need to fumigate this room okay somehow a summer insect has made its way in you left the door open oh who let the dog out is the question all right uh so that carries five to uh nothing I'll draft a decision the decision must be filed with the town clerk's office okay from the date it's filed 20 days must lapse that's a technical waiting period assuming there being no appeal from the grant of the relief we've given you here tonight that then is considered a fully granted special permit however you do need to take that document called the special permit to the bable registry of deeds you need to record it there and bring a proof that it's been record recorded back to our zoning board administrator Dolores all right Dolores Fallon who is we could never replace she's been so helpful to me is it raise time yet by the way I get the special permit and then I register it yeah no she's going to tell you all about it tell me you don't have to take notes I don't I couldn't have gone this far without her don't have to take notes you're fine okay thanks see you later all right thank you wait hold on a second Mr sry we have a did you request two different forms of relief I don't understand how variants would even apply here but that's okay all right uh so what we usually do in these circumstances is we ask our petitioners who bring bring in a request for alternative relief uh whether it's applicable or not uh to um withdraw the other form of relief that's not necessary because you've already been granted the special permit that we that we withdraw that that you asked to withdraw it without prejudice and that's what you wish to have happen isn't it yes it is I knew it was Che the words out of my mouth you Mr iigo moves second second Mr mantony Seconds any need for discussion hearing none uh we'll do it by roll call vote all those in favor please indicate by saying I I those opposed carries unanimously five to nothing therefore it's withdrawn without prejudice okay okay thank you so much thanks toor have a good night too thank you thank you oh the game might have just started 10 minutes ago I'm sorry I wanted to get you all home in time but we'll get to the next matter right now it's petition 5124 Francis Wilson of 17 Portsmouth teris yarmouthport Massachusetts that property is within the aquafer Protection District the R40 zoning district and Zone 2 the applicant seeks a special permit pursuant to 104.3 point2 sub paragraph 2 or in the alternative of variance from one uh under 203.50 of the zoning bylaws for front setback relief on a pre-existing non-conforming structure to expand two bedrooms bathrooms bathroom yeah it says the bathrooms on the pay yeah it does said bedrooms didn't I did shame on me you want to go watch the game I get it shame he doesn't want shame on me tell us uh who you are please my name is Jim Craig sure I work for Tom T C building and remodeling sure and we're going to expand a couple bathrooms for friend oh wait a minute this is M Wilson here and I am Fran Wilson hi hi M Wilson how are you tonight you you want him to speak or you want to do it for him um I think he could speak first and then I could add anything to it that you might like that be a wonderful way to seed thank you please go right ahead sir all right well we want to um expand two there's two bathrooms one's off the master and one is the the common bath and we want to turn the common bath into a bathroom SL laundry room and the master bath we want to make a little bigger put a walk-in shower in it um just make it big enough so that she can live on the same floor as we all know we do get older and we need first Flor living okay it's nice when things are simple isn't it yeah uh Mr Martin any questions of our petitioner I don't think so is it is the house only one bedroom now or is house only one bedroom two bedrooms there's a bedroom downstairs as well as the master bedroom upstairs he upstairs okay didn't get that far I guess uh no I can see what's being done I think it's a fairly minimal request uh bringing the front set back down by less than 5T um I know they can't do anything in back cuz the Pawn's back there and uh little trouble with that so I I I don't think I have any questions anyways Mr no I don't have any questions I think it just goes from like 31 ft set back to around 36 30 30 20 I'm sorry 25 and a half y so four and a half fet but I don't have any other questions okay Mr I go uh no questions thank you wow I I tell you that's a first okay so now can I add a bedroom this is cards for celebration maybe we will get home before the first half ends Mr Manon I don't have any questions either well I don't have any questions I do have a comment it's a the very very rare occasion when I will consider any reduction in front uh setback any relief on front setback I I just don't think it's appropriate because usually these uh you know residential units are all done in Conformity with a master plan and it's part of the plan uh that they uh the Integrity of the zoning bylaw occur or the they were built prior to uh the enactment of zoning bylaws so uh irrespective of that I I can't think of a piece of property and I'm I'm aware of your house I'm you know it's very lovely by the way okay thank you and it's well maintained and I've been in that home for 35 years now have you well uh listen when you're done trimming your own bushes they're out of control over my house uh but you know and all kidding aside it it's a lovely property this can be done without in any way uh interfering with the view of the property it's Tranquility within the that's peace and Tranquility offer to the neighborhood and and I think is a a good utilization of this uh uh uh proposed addition uh to make it a more liveable livable house particularly with only the two bedrooms in it so I I know that again I I won't speak for Mr Martin but I Mr iGo but I can tell you he and I are usually very opposed to the grant of any relief on front side uh setback and for good cause I think for very good cause I think it's very unique this property and that's why I can support it when ordinarily I would not um and the uniqueness again is its location the fact that it can be well screened by the existing vegetation even if you remove some of it it's still going to REM remember uh remain a well uh placed home uh far from the the street skate Street side and so it's a go for me if if somebody makes a motion okay I'm going to speak in favor of it and I do however before proceeding to that I have to say that this is from Andy Sandler my wife Jill and I own the home at 10 Portsmouth Terrace diagonally across the street from M Francis Wilton's home at number 17 excuse me please we spent several months each year here and we have plans to move here full-time by next summer while we're not yet full-time residents and registered voters I hope that as homeowners of an abing property we have some say and some sway in this matter we've known and been friendly with Ms Wilton for the full seven years we've been in the neighborhood it has been clear from the outset that she has immense pride in her home and land and with good reason Jill and I have complete faith that her plans will do nothing less than enhance her H's interor Beauty and convenience and we enthusiastically recommend the zba uh to the zba that they Grant permission to M Wilson to proceed with their project now I don't know how much you paid them or how many spaghetti and meatball din you year that they've come back that's fabulous but what a wonderful neighbor what a wonderful thing to see a neighbor actually chiming in this in agreement or not doesn't matter to us just at least showing an interest in the I had no idea that was coming so beyond that we have no one in our audience that would care to speak in favor or in opposition to the petition because there's no one in our audience Mr Freer well I uh my question is whether it's a special permit or requires a variance and uh I think it's a variance isn't it I think it's a variance too because you're what you're doing is you're you're cre creating a non-conformity creating a brand new one new one yeah so it requires a variant but um one thing about the lot is it is a unique piece of property and it does have restrictions relative to where it is sitting on the wetlands it's on a corner as well so very limited as to what you know where you can build on this lot well the shape of the lot does have an impact I think the shape of the lot would be the hardship and I do think we can grant this without derating from the purpose and intent of the bylaw okay that was my one question yeah so I do think they meet the criteria for variance yeah the way I always see it is if if it creates a nonconformity it's a variance if it doesn't create then it's a special permit well this is a new one new yeah this is a new non-conformity that's what I'm saying if it doesn't create if if it creates a non-conformity it's right right I see there's already non-conformity there if that matters it is on the side yeah but we're creating a new one now yeah okay I get additional yeah all right in any event uh anybody prepared to make a motion so I would I would I'd be prepared to make a motion to approve a variance based on the based on the bylaw that fills doesn't impact the neighborhood I think it's a nice addition and um I believe it is the the yard itself and the shape of the lot doesn't and that that would be uh uh the variance uh without condition right without condition yeah all right is there a second second Mr Martin second is there any uh does the board care to have any discussion before moving along to a vote hearing none I think we've already establish that it meets the criteria for the grant of a variance and so uh no need to recite that back in by roll call vote Mr Manton hi Mr iGo hi Mr Frey I Mr Martin I I am as well and I please before you leave though boy I'm glad no one has to interpret my writing before you leave please be aware that we have to write a decision that decision will be filed with the town clerk's office 20 days must elapse usually that's just a technical waiting period but it does allow any interested person to file an appeal that those interested persons usually being defined by this Supreme Judicial Court as a as direct Butters I mean I'm sorry as a Butters within the definition of a uh and beyond that I I suspect you'll have no appeal and you'll then be able to take your your variance and go down to the bondable registry of deeds and record it and then when you record it you're going to return proof that you have done so uh to miss Fallon okay she will give you instructions on that which will be available to you as soon as we get this thing filed with the town clerk okay excellent the special per special permit did you have a special permit request as well in this wonder if anybody will ever be able to make up their mind on these things before we before I retire from the board move to allow the petitioner to withdraw without prejudice the request a special permit second board K have any discussion on that motion made and so seconded hearing none all those in favor please indicate by saying I I those opposed that carries unanimously by Voice vote okay thank you very much all right you thank you Mr chairman thank you Mr board members good luck I'm going to go beg cookies for my neighbor go out B cookies well ask them what kind they want be a really good neighbor there's one more item on the agenda uh minutes nope election of officers oh move to table we don't need to do it right now move to table election of officers push it down the road why are we doing that cuz we don't want to do it t that's why want to go home watch the game all right what does anybody want to do we we adjourning we moving we having the election what are we doing move the table I got a second I got a motion with a second on the table here oh have you did you actually second that I didn't you did you want to go home to watch the game I do all those in favor please indicate by saying I hi good night good night Dolores these are funny funny J move to a jiren and so we have