##VIDEO ID:bnqgPal9fdI## noting the time and the presence of a quorum uh including the member who is on Zoom I call this meeting of the finance committee to [Music] order we will have another member joining us shortly uh she is coming from the school budget committee task force which is also the reason why this meeting is at an unusually late hour of 8:00 p.m. um the committee will be happy to hear that this is the last time we expect in advance of this meeting I have not I have not checked my email in the last three hours but I have not heard of any additions subtractions completions deletions with regard to these uh meeting minutes so that's not going to help me stall for time either uh but we'll give uh everyone an opportunity to review one last time because I thought I saw a thought I saw something but if I can't find it now I will be quiet and move on did anybody find anything wrong with these meeting minutes or a terminology that they would like changed oh so helpful thank you okay at this time I would entertain a motion Mr chairman I move that we approve the minutes of September 24th is submitted second unfortunately because we have a zoom audience a zoom uh participation we have to take a roll call vote that's going to kill some time and I'm I'm G to actually even skip the associate members because I've not been good about that in the past so uh Mr noon hi Scott hi Greg hi Allison I and I say I the meeting minutes are approved okay now we are moving on to Liaison reports I did not explicitly call out an ALG report for this did we do one at the last meeting I thought we did up the reason I'm confused is because uh last night's select board they did do an ALG report and I could have sworn they had met more frequently than we had but we'll leave that b um anybody else have a le as on report or I will launch into the select board meeting from last night I do have one go ahead Alis I don't necessarily have to go first I I have the the uh water Active water uh the Asam report the floor is yours um I think the only item of interest and I think this is something we had discussed before um the the increased cost I think that some of us have noticed an increased cost in our water bills um it's both uh the discussion centered on the fact that the rates did go up but they are noticing an increase in usage I think they had said that it was one of their um in terms of measuring periods it was one of the highest uh usage uh Q3 that we we've ever had so um they've been Fielding complaints or queries from the public and noting that a lot of customers who are complaining about this cost also potentially have leaks um that that need to be addressed um and so there was some discussion about um the increase in cost and the reason that that might be and they encouraged anyone who's concerned about the increase of their water bill to uh look into the um water smart monitoring option if they had already enrolled in that so I think chrisy had had brought up this topic a few meetings ago so I thought it was worth me mentioning that's it thank you unfortunately Christie's not here to chime in to add on to what you said but thank you for uh thank you for that update okay last night the select board did meet uh and uh select member Martin will uh come to the come to the table here in a minute to go in more depth uh with regard to the first item that was brought up under new business which is a special town meeting so I will not seal his Thunder but we will go on from there um let's see just trying to pick out anything that is of financial impact um I will say that um it is act in Restaurant Week that was mentioned that is worth uh worth mentioning from a financial perspective please support your local businesses this um the lease for the ACT in food pantry has been approved at a dollar a month and if I'm reading this properly it's a 10year lease with two fiveyear potential renewals if I'm reading that properly it's in the packet um I could have it wrong but it looks like the River Street property 19 and sorry Maple Street 19 and 21 Maple Street has been entered will be entered into a long-term lease for the actin food pantry for $1 a month for 10 years um The W finding signs which does have a economic impact has been tabled until they are in complete agreement about what they're going to do the DPW update and the update from LG are go hand in hand the main part of the DPW update is that we are still awaiting receipt of the cost estimates at the 928 or 9:26 meeting uh they had anticipated that we would have uh cost cost estimates on 108 um that has not arrived yet I don't know if that's because they are actually uh taking into account our requests to review this to be a one-year buildout rather than a two-year buildout but that said we will await await their uh their numbers the next meeting of the DPW building committee is November 7th in this room I will not read the rest of my notes um I will note that we had one select board member who did suggest that the narrative is very strong but that she would like to see dollar amounts attached I believe we would like to ringing endorse that comment um moving on to the ALG update from the select board last night there's agreement that they are not going to use the untaxed levy capacity for fiscal year 26 so that that's uh definitely something the finance committee should be aware of then there was conversation about whether or not the DPW should be something that should even be brought up as part of the uh consensus Arrangement at ALG um it was commented that the the twin school which is now the boardwalk campus and the fire station um were not necessarily discussed but I believe that's because they were not contentious and that therefore consensus was fairly relatively easily reached one of the select board members said that because this has nothing no bearing on the immediate next year that it is not something that should be part of the consensus Arrangement um just a second I'll give the update first and then we will open the floor for comment uh there was also a comment that the sooner the numbers are provided the sooner it will be easier for the finance committee to make their recommendation one member asked if one member specifically speically asked the finance committee was on board on this and the answer was that the finance committee needed all the numbers before they could support but that the finance committee had not yet taken a formal position um that and there were there were no other Financial uh items at the end end of last night's meeting so I will ask if we wish to comment on these updates or if you just wish to receive them as this is what was presented in last night's meeting and I can provide time stamps if people wish to validate what I have said you're the first one to turn on your microphone Mr noon the floor is yours uh just a couple of comments in the comments um in my experience and ALG which goes back almost 20 years that yes capital projects overrides Deb exclusions have always been discussed may not have been controversial but they were discussed say it's not within the um realm of ALG is to say why do we have the line for debt exclusion uh on the ALG plan um I could make a counterargument well if that's the case the fact that the um Junior High and senior high debt is falling off is is now irrelevant um so we should take that out of consideration and look at DPW as a standalone without the benefit of the tax dropping off um and as far as um she distracted me by raising her hand now I've lost my thought for the second Point welcome back to you I'm going to play Devil's Advocate on that exact point before I go to Christie on that exact point the argument is that since it is not expected to hit the taxpayer in fy6 there so why don't we do a three-year plan in ALG it's a very good question mrno I would also like to uh remind people that the at the ALG meeting when asked on the topic about whether or not I felt a DPW should be discussed as part of the consensus uh I believed I believe I I think I was potentially mildly callous and I will I will leave uh Mr Sullivan to approve if I was overstepped my lines or not but that I said I believe that part of the main reason for ALG is to make sure there is not a floor fight at town meeting at which point uh at least one one member of the peanut gallery said yes that's absolutely accurate and correct yes that's what that's what happened that's what happened very good I would just add Mr chairman that we have always had a three-year plan for ALG and has always been subject of consensus all three years not just one thank you for the added ammunition to make sure that uh to make sure that the consensus rules are uh Comm consensus consensus convention is continued to be followed believe you wanted to say something I'm sorry you were not fast up on the Drone yeah no I'm sorry I did not attend the ALG meeting um I happen to be on ALG the year leading up to the year in which we were negotiating the fire station um and Boardwalk campus and then the year in which it appeared before the special 10 meeting and it was entirely discussed the idea that you could spend in this case potentially 40 million dollar without having it be a part of the budget negotiations is absolutely ridiculous to me the fact that I I feel like this is an attempt to take any teeth out of ALG or just completely misunderstand the purpose a Flor fight is exactly what you're going to get if you do not come to an agreement especially on such a contentious issue there was no contention apart from leading up to the final number of the fire station and that happened a year before the station was brought to town meeting we had a whole year of ALG negotiations the fire station was not brought to the town meeting in the spring it was brought to a special town meeting the following winter at which point it had been agreed on already through the rest of the ALG process it wasn't in a a spring town meeting as usual but it was very much something discussed through the whole thing and the fact that we're discussing multiple years out is really key to the ALG model there's been constant push back to try to have it just look at one year and I recognize that you cannot make future years algs agree to what has been said but there's zero point of planning if people aren't even willing to talk about it and the idea with ALG is that we're all getting on the same board in heading in more or less the same direction it's not if you think that you can not discuss a $40 million project that's absolutely ridiculous thank you very much as uh as the person who gave the speech about the twin school and the fire station I was not privy to the the ALG uh meeting leading up to it but I absolutely would not have given a finance committee recommendation if we had not been in agreement and it had not been on board so thank you for that uh historical historical uh remembrance of exactly what happened okay are there any other liais on reports at this time other than the school budget task force which is its own agenda item and so I'm not going to have you speak at this time very good as a reminder our November dates have been moved our next meeting is November 5th at 7:30 in this room which is election day I do expect that that's a half an hour I believe it's a half an hour before the polls closed I hope everyone will have taken care of their civic responsibility before they get here please be for please be forewarned don't cut it right under the under the wire and then the next meeting will be the 19th um and um I still haven't made up my mind exactly where we're going to have that meeting and it's currently booked in the library um but and that that's that the expectation at this time this is the last of the times that I expect to have a late start um and again it's because uh chrisy was coming from across town she'll speak to us later uh I did GL over in the select board meeting I did uh gloss over in the select board meeting that the uh there were the very first item in the agenda which I suspect and I might be speaking out of school here might have had something to do with the executive session before the meeting started before the public meeting started last night there is now a special town meeting scheduled for the Monday before Thanksgiving uh I immediately sent out an invitation to please uh to please uh um inform the finance committee about this that's why it is a late addition to the agenda it's not something we normally do but we have a late addition to our agenda because this was only um put on the calendar at last night's select board meeting to that end I would like to thank select member Martin for not only being our liaison but for being the person to step forward and give us the details that we need on what was voted on at last night's select board meeting Mr Martin the floor is yours good evening and thank you um so uh as as mentioned the uh select board uh voted to call a town meeting on Monday November 25th 6 PM I think um and uh mainly for um uh the land purchase which I will discuss and but there are a few other things that may be on the warrant as well so uh right now there are four possibilities for articles on the warrant um the uh acquisition of the property at 1935 weatherbe street I'll talk about I have few more slides on that I don't have slides on the others so I'll talk through the others now and then um and then jump into the uh 1935 weather be Street um the next two are to authorize two collective bargaining agreements um those are uh being negotiated now the one for the public safety uh dispatch is uh close to agreement um the one for um uh facilities cemetery and Public Works is also possible so um if those uh if those uh negotiations are completed they'll be on the warrant as well and finally this is less than a 50-50 chance uh but um there's an um as noted with the fire Tru uh last year there's a much longer lead time for equipment um and uh we're a little bit concerned about one ambulance and whether um it need need to be uh replaced in that time frame but the the town manager and the chief are looking at Alternatives so that's I'd say uh a less than 5050 chance at um this point so the um the uh the warrant closes at noon on Friday um uh I would expect that um um all the uh articles uh will be cast in concrete by your next meeting and that um uh I'm also guessing that we can go to print the day after your meeting so uh recommendations can make it into the warrant uh sorry to interrupt um my understanding is that the reasonal warrant is uh being held open noon on the 25th is in case of any citizens petitions the first question is do you anticipate any citizens petition at this time no we've not been made aware of any um uh I was I was concerned that you know uh we had a special town meeting called in the spring just for one Citizen's petition and the people who um made that happen were roundly criticized but if we're going to criticize them for that I think we need to give folks an opportunity to have citizens petitions where we're having a meeting anyway so uh the schedule is very tight so we couldn't give them very long um there but um the slug board voted to close the warrant at noon on Friday which gives them enough enough time to um they to get their signatures if they have something in mind and um just because I was a fly on the wall on last night's select board meeting there was some conversation about potentially bringing the gas leaf blower ban to this uh special town meeting that was not uh was not finalized one way or another do you anticipate that that is an option to come to this special time meeting or if you not been asked to move that forward between now and then I you know this is just a I want to emphasize that this is just a personal thing not a a select board decision but I would be doubtful of that because it would require us to re I I just wanted to J you said they go to press on the warant after our next meeting is it our next meeting the 19th no our next meeting is the is the 5ifth oh the fifth okay uh on the ambulance if it does move forward would that be something that where the expense would hit fy2 or FY 26 um uh I would we'd have to figure that out that was actually a question of mine but we're not even as far enough along to say that we want to put this here and I don't know what the arrangements are when you order years in advance what portion you pay for upfront so I I I can't answer that um I'm sure there's I'm sure there's a deposit but I don't expect you to know what it is at this time yes and um it um and I I don't think that I don't know so I don't want to say whether the deposit would require Debt Service but um that would I I um that would be we would Supply that with that information before your next meeting if it becomes real and like I said I think there's less than a 50/50 chance for that I believe we're all set on the other articles the land acquisition is definitely of most interest to us at this time okay the parcel that we're talking about um it's actually both Parcels here the one in green and the one in yellow um being purchased as a as a unit um the the parcel 174 is 19 weather be and parcel 189 is 35 WEA be um uh they've been held and um you know been kind of fallow for a a long time um uh the uh the family selling the uh property has been kind of waiting for the the town to be um ready and we had other things in in in progress until this year like the um the the the Conant um land which you know going into it we didn't you know the water district ended up buying that but we didn't know what the arrangements were going to be before that and so um uh uh we had asked the family to to pause and they did and then it came back again this this year so that that's the the parcel um you know it's it's this is the parcel uh by the way this is just an aerial view of the same um parcel um that it's uh when you after you come through the rotary um and uh you know things kind of pan pack you know from from the rotary um this is the you know kind of at least in my mind I noticed it actually when I first move to act in the the field with the trees behind um so it's it's an iconic piece of property so um my my last slide is just the um the the the terms of the the deal we've signed a letter of intent after last night's meeting just today um um it's approximately 32 acres in total the selling price is uh 3.6 million plus there's closing costs and a feed of the um uh entity holding the conservation restriction um um the the uh parcel was uh appraised at more than 4 million based on the land being developed so what what was its value be if it was develop uh sold to to be developed into a a subdivision we um um staff has secured of half a million dollar Massachusetts land grant um for this land is an acronym for local acquisition and natural diversity maybe or something I anyway it's an acronym um uh and so there's that that we secured a um half a million dollar land grant that actually um is the reason for the urgency in the town meeting that uh Grant expires at the end of the year um and uh they require two things uh for the grant they require town meeting approval and they required that the land be under contract so um we have to get both those things done um this year with the letter of intent you know getting it under contract is probably not not difficult and that the as of uh yesterday we scheduled the town meeting the uh letter of intent and the um uh if uh town meeting authorizes us to move forward we'll be contingent on CPC approval um uh how CPC votes to um and if they vote and how how they and what monies they choose to um uh spend on this um uh you know it's up to them but this is is an example um that there's a um uh the open space set aside uh uh of CPA monies has more than $1.3 million in it and um um plus the uh CPC can borrow money against future um CPA monies um we've done that in the past for land Acquisitions um it's done for right Hill for example on on this property um you could see in that that my first map that there's an there's an old house on that property that no one lives there um uh the sellers will uh remove the old house and their old um radio towers there which are just a an attractive nuisance they're you know they're Rusty and and dangerous if people were to climb on them and the whole property will would uh be placed under uh conservation restriction uh if the purchase went through and that'll be a a condition of the sale so I'm happy to take any questions out of the normal sequence um but you're talking about getting some money from their set aside and and maybe having them on the rest ye yes um so this doesn't get thrown in the mix with the rest of their work for uh F FY 26 because this would not um um th this deal would close before um uh FY 26 and so uh any of the additions that the CPC might do to the set aside um for FY 26 would not count for this deal um I think that what I've said here is a um a possible use of those funds so like I I mentioned that the set aside currently has 3 1.3 million and change in it um so if they 1.3 million and bonded the rest this would be the uh you know the approximate results but that the the details of that of course are up to them yeah they made very well not want to give the whole set aside to one project um and um technically CBA can't really Bond it's the town that issues the bond so absolutely but um there there are the the bond is contingent on being repaid by CPA money understood but it's a general obligation yes that's correct and so if we were with a revenue Source if we were uh a future town meeting were to opt out of CPA um then we would still have to pay the the obligation lives on yes okay thanks um I'm going to apologize for not U having seen this before now so that's no one has no one has okay all right so my stupid questions may not be terribly stupid then but uh it could you just for Simplicity sake for for me just kind of list the pros and cons of doing this not doing this I'm just from what you just said I think the pro is is that the town gains conservation land yeah and then the con is what if we don't buy it so I if we didn't buy it it would like so the sellers would like very much for the land to be conserved right but really their their biggest possibility here is to have the town conserve it right maybe they could find someone like The Nature Conservancy or something to buy it I don't know that's I have no idea but the most likely outcome if we didn't buy it would that is that it would be developed and since this is an iconic piece of property um you know uh that you've seen by hundreds and hundreds of thousands and thousands of people every day um the con would be that um there would be a subdivision there instead uh I will note that this um and I can go back to the um you can see it actually here very well the parcel um towards the bottom of this uh page is already conserved Act and owned land um and it uh it's fielded on the uh right side of this slide and um wood it on the right side sorry wood it on the left side of the slide um field on the right side all right so my other stupid question is is there um like a town directive to spend a certain amount of money every number of years to purchase conservation land or are we just doing it because people are trying to sell property and we see it as conservation land do we have a stated objective to do this and if so what do we budget for it so Ju Just Just to be clear these are are not stupid questions at all and I just want to say that since we were negotiating um with the sellers this was not you know we had executive sessions and you could have looked in the agenda and seen what the property was but um while we're negotiating it's not made public so that we don't you know influence the uh negotiation um the the way land acquisition works is that uh there's an open space committee and the open space committee monitors and you know uh the pieces of land in town that they think are desirable for preservation and they argue that those be conserved meanwhile the CPC or CPA monies were required to spend I believe 10% of those monies on um uh land conservation uh or on open space every uh year um the um CPC in most years puts about half a million dollars into a set aside which is it's it's just a a separate fund right it's it's totally up to the CPC whether they add to it or not and um and that is like a savings account for future land purchases and right now the balance of that is um 1.3 million all right so I'll one more question that I'll I'll relieve the microphone here so in the spring we were going through all the budget challenges one of the things that was suggested but not followed through was land sale is there land that act and owns that is not deemed ideal for conservation that could be sold to offset any additional expenditure that could be for purchasing property that we do believe should be conserved so I am not aware of any extra land um there are some tiny little Parcels in places like um that have been taken for tax you know non payment of taxes some of them are not buildable and we would never be able to sell them because no one would want to buy them so there's some teeny little Parcels like that um there are the other open space areas we have we have actually quite a bit of open space in town um uh um almost all of it has hiking trails on it and things so um uh I'm not quite sure the number of parcels maybe a dozen maybe more um so um uh it's been and and land conservation passes overwhelmingly at town meeting I'm sure it does I but I I could just keep going on but I I'll Rel if I may I forgot one question how are the parcels zoned I believe believe that the parcels are Zone residential okay well then since they're only assess for under $400,000 we need to get the assessors to do a little better job uh just as a heads up to our members on the zoom meeting I'll be coming to them after the next two members to my left if either of the two members to my left have any questions to ask Christa you're up um being reminded of the dam and I think the CET land um having uh encountered some problems is there any sort of economic environmental impact that's done as a part of a simple conservation purchase with for not planning on doing anything with the land are we opening ourselves up to any sort of liability even if we're just purchasing this land to leave it there um I don't think so I think I share actually some of the um uh Finance committee's members concerns when we buy a piece of land that we don't know what we're going to do with it um um uh so that that is a conser but that's not the case here we intend to conserve it um um and um we have to do some due diligence and the um purchase and sale will allow us to do the due diligence and if we find anything um you know I don't know what the resolution will be it depends of what's found um so uh there'll there'll be a a normal amount of testing I have you know actually all the select board members have hiked the the the property there are these old rusty um uh radio towers but iron is not a um a pollutant right um it's a nuisance and uh that kind of thing there are a few old cars and I think they're going to remove those um there's uh one old car submerged in a pond kind of area that one I think we're going to leave rather than disturb the pond um uh I think that was recommended by the Conservation Commission so um um we don't know of anything yeah the only question I have is um is if this does not pass um at town meeting um and we end up with um the owners trying to find a different um buyer to what extent will the whatever happens at MCI conquered Ripple up route two to Acton uh is in other words is timing not only urgent because we want to get this under contract in 2024 but we also want to um make sure that we don't um have a sort of a secondary impact once MCI conquered uh takes its new shape so this this piece of land is a little bit different first of all it's privately owned and so the owners can do what they want with it they can sell it to whom they they wish um uh I don't believe there's any connection with uh MCI conquered um if if we did not buy the land um they would find someone else to sell it to um you know other conservation um might not give them the you know the give them their nest egg right and so um they probably sell it to a developer and it become a subdivision and the it um uh it's been appraised now multiple times and it could handle a subdivision there so um Ian but that's completely up to them right uh the appraisals are based on the subdivision but um the owners can do what they wish Allison Jones would you wish to ask any questions at this time no questions for me thank you and uh Dave wellinghoff do you wish to ask any questions at this time two quick ones um you know the the CPA bonded portion is there any discussion on the time frame that that would be paid back um there probably is is discretion there and um usually the treasurer would figure that out um uh obviously um land has a long useful life so you could bond it for a while uh but u in that case we paid more interest so I mean it's a it's just a finance decision thinking more the opposite just to the point of it actually being a town liability is you know is this something that should be paid down relatively quickly just to remove that you know from a um the town's balance sheet so to speak um and then you know does this property generate any tax revenue at all right now sorry if I missed that um I I think um I'm not sure the answer to that I I could get you um uh the answer so it um assessed at around $400,000 so not much did you hear that yeah 400,000 assessed okay that's it for me thanks okay so I have two questions um as the chair I get to go last um just to make absolutely sure that I'm hearing properly and I I think I have but I want to drive a fine fine point home on this topic I believe you said that this would not impact the different buckets for CPC for this year or for any subsequent year other than the requirements to cover the payments to the $1.9 million bond is that accurate so it has no impact on this year's uh split into the different the the five different categories of where CBC has to go um I'll yes with an asterisk unless the debt service starts next year right so [Music] um you know if let's say we take out the bonds in 90 days I'm just throwing that which be super fast and I understand that that then The Debt Service might hit in FY 26 and and the way the uh CPA monies are are managed when they figure out what money the CPC has every year um they take a a few things off the top um they they get the Topline number then they take a few things off and one of them is the debt service for other things like for example we're still paying for right Hill and that uh that um taking off the top does not have a bearing on the different buckets so it it it the the bucket is a is a percentage yes so I the the percentage I I don't know actually I assume the percentage is of the Topline number but I don't know that either um and so that the percentage is still the same that so they would have um a little less money um to um you know to distribute among project applications in future years until the bond was paid off understood right so um uh th this year the CPC has something like 1.4 million to distribute among projects that I assume is already has the I this is just just numbers that stick in my mind so they're please don't uh uh I'm not absolutely sure of them but I I think I think I'm right um I think we pay $80,000 a year in debt service for right Hill so that the the Topline number would have been at least $80,000 more than that and then um and then the amount that they have to distribute comes out the bottom can I see if I can help please do and then I have one more so the CPC is fun fed by a sear charge of 1 a half% on everybody's tax bill um and then there's a state match the state match roll this year about 25% maybe um so once they get the total of the sear charge in the state match which yeah is around million something each year uh then the um the the percentage things are taken off that top number but they are minimums not maximums so um anytime they put money aside for open space that's covers their 10% any Debt Service that they pay on open space that they've already acquired is part of that 10% so it's it's not limited in any way uh by the 10% it's 10% for um that for uh affordable housing historical preservation now that's the tough one they usually have trouble making 10% on that one yes and if the they can't do the minimum um then that carries forward if they only use 5% for historic preservation this year whatever the actual dollars are for the other 5% they carry forward to a future year for for historical and then my last question um and and I I want to be very careful to get a solid answer on this so if you don't know the answer tonight please come back to us before our next meeting what exactly is allowed use under CPC conservation and the reason why I ask and I'm being very pointed in my question here is I believe this was a set of land that was identified within the last three to five years as potentially being a discharge for a new water treatment plant for sewage running down 2A and so my question is is this a way is that an allowed use of conservation land and is this a way of restricting the use of this land such that become that much more attractive for use for sewage no we couldn't uh do uh discharge um on conserved um uh area um sometimes um conservation restrictions would allow some uses like active race Recreation um but I think this grant does not allow that and so um the this is just a a passively conserved site so we we can have hiking um I believe we can have you know uh parking uh that's used for hikers you know not train station parking or something but parking as an accessory to the main use um that kind of thing um but very little else and in conserved property we we we could not do uh discharge prior to our next meeting um I'm not going to ask the committee to to vote on this tonight this is literally the first we've heard of it the first I'd heard of it was last night when I tuned into the select board meeting but uh prior to our next meeting especially before we make a recommendation or not I would like to get very clear inwriting definitions or proof that this could not be used for a discharge or water treatment facility and anyway sh perform is that something you could help facilitate yeah I I probably could find some things but I absolutely guarantee that is not allowed under the cons conservation restriction um he's not my favorite President but he said trust but verify so I so there there there are two reasons why I can't just do you know this grant would not allow it they they won't give us the money if we allowed that and a normal conservation restriction does not allow that either as I said even getting active Recreation is kind of not a normal thing in a conservation restriction it can be done but this grant doesn't allow that so it should be super easy to to meet my requirement thank you very much and yeah and one one of the things is i that's why I noted at the bottom of my last slide is that the whole prop property is being uh put in under a conservation restriction is the same conservation restriction as the existing conservation set so the they're all individual and they have particular uses and uh particular details there are lots of examples right um down to whether you can cut down trees or not whether you can uh who put up blazes for Trails or not you know um all sorts of things so um uh who gets to who gets to reroute the trails if the trails need to be rerouted they have all sorts of things like that um and there there are many examples um I can probably find the um um uh restrictions on the land grant um uh I don't think that the well I I'd have to go read the letter of intent again this see if the letter of intent definitely says that the land should be conserved whether the letter of intent lists all the uses or not I don't know I would like to see that because I would hate for there to be a surprise later so please uh please please furnish that or have the town furnish that so I'm not sure that that's a public document at the moment um uh I'm sure we can share it with you Mr chair um and we can certainly share the land grant criteria if we need to have an executive session for next meeting I'm sure we can make that happen Okay but I am saying that that is something that I wish to see okay are there any other questions before we take public comment on this topic Tara very much Terra from by massav um David and I sometimes disagree uh but in terms of of the CPA uh limitations I believe he spot on in terms of the limitations they would not allow that but I will tell you that uh in another town that I'm working with the from Neighbors in niq uh a piece of land was bought for conservation uh and then some years later whether you like or don't like dog parks um it was then proposed up for a dog park because the town hadn't filed the paperwork for the conservation restriction in this case we're talking about CPA money being used so I don't believe they'd be able to F pull that you know shell game or uh fast switch whatever that's called um so I do want to say that um I am always as a former select person I was always uncomfortable with these executive sessions shielding what's going on in terms of the negotiations uh for land purchases because if the other side already knows the information why would that then be shielded from the public when the purpose of the executive session is to prevent any uh disadvantage by the town to negotiate the price with the owner if the owner already knows the price or he knows the conditions why should that be shielded so that's something for consideration some other time uh I love the idea of this becoming conservation land we die we so badly need conservation land walking trails on Route 2 a where a third of the Town lives and something like 5% of the conservation lands are accessible within what they call Progressive planners call the five minute walk or roll uh to get to conservation land so uh Boston has already achieved 10 minutes within 10 minutes anybody can walk to a park Acton hasn't even measured um but Boston is already progressing towards the 5 minute Mark I'm almost done here uh I hope that the growth study still is going on uh this become this land becomes part of the MCI because the 40b constraints and the uh the the the whatever person that would buy it besides the town would be instantly in line for a lot of money being thrown at them to uh build on that land and uh the tax status I believe is because if you file for agricultural you pay practically nothing in taxes so um I I feel like that's not really it's important but not for this discussion thank you so much for talking to me or listening to me and I thank you for considering this article I am very much in favor of it uh for a whole long list of reasons which I'll outlay at down meeting thank you uh Mr chair the speaker brings up a third way that it's restricted as so you can't use CPA monies for um you can only use CPA monies for the things that CPA monies are allowed for you can't you buy a piece of land for General Municipal with CPA monies so um that's an another way so it's restricted three ways to Sunday I guess just put it in writing well that that's the law you can go read the Massachusetts law um so um uh and and so I can I can probably point you at that and point you at the um the land grant criteria very well so we will undoubtedly be asked to recommend or not recommend at our next meeting who would like to take the lead on this between now and the between now and our next meeting knowing that it's only two weeks away Greg you are the first one to raise your hand and people are pointing at you uh have I made it clear what I'm looking for yes and um it turns out the connection of this land to MCI conquered is actually historic dates back to the late 70s early 80s when the state owned all the land along Route two uh and was planning to expand MCI conquered at that time and there was a bill to transfer uh ownership uh of all that land uh for that purpose which did not happen back then so um the fact that we're now 40 some odd years later um uh it would be nice to lock this door down before we discover there are other forces at work uh next door very good thank you yes Martin Mr chair if there's someone assigned to the collective bargaining articles if those get um uh completed I'm happy to contact them or have the manager contact them mr's hand collect the bargain and I don't I do not wish to I do not wish to swim against 20 years of uh 20 years of precedent here Mr noon has the collective bargaining agreements and whether we buy a vehicle or propose to buy a vehicle or not that's a coin flip and I'm happy to contact someone if that comes up as well we're going to volun told uh Mr bordon on that one because he loves the fire trucks okay so he he really does and he's not here so he has been volun told I love the fact that the person laughing the loudest was the person who was volun told at the last meeting and we will get to that in just in just a a few short minutes thank you thank you that actually does bring us to the cost cut cost cutting initiative I will turn the microphone over to Christie and I will um by way of hearkening back to what was just said we did uh ask Greg to write some some verbage in our last meeting which you got volen told so I will let Christy go through that verbage at this time um and Greg has written up some text which he will present to us um I just want to check once again we had been discussing doing us at our meeting on November 19th having their listening session then so before we send anything out we will need to know where that meeting is going to be and we can work on that together and I I will take my direction I believe you prefer the library and that is still on board and uh our our leison has informed me that this can be recorded via Zoom uh so we can disseminate this and still be on the uh public transit tracks that you were interested in wonderful thank you um and I will hand this over to Greg I want to check one more thing I've been in discussion with the council and aging about us being able to um do a listing session at the senior center the date that they are now planning out for December having already sent out their November newsletter um they're wondering if we could come on December 3rd a Tuesday from 6:00 to 7: we would need a quorum to be present I okay got three of us four we need one more six o'clock on a Tuesday de count I'm sorry know associate yeah I appreciate it though um December 3rd 6 o'clock let's plan on making let's let's let's say yes and uh if we have to twist arms later we will twist arms later I'll give you 10 okay thank you so we will plan on that date we will add it and our other listening session will to what Greg is um going to read to us now the idea is that this will go out in a news flash to the town and hopefully in an email or some such before he uh proceeds uh have you already I I'm I'm sure you have just because I have never done this before have do you have everything you need for from a logistics Logistics perspective to send out a news flash to life I'm going to send it to John or I will send it to the manager's office and they will help so I'm looking at Maryanne who is no this is what I spoke to John about it and this is what he said to do fantastic very good so yes you've already investigated Logistics thank you for taking I don't know more it's more of a give it to someone who knows what's going on level excellent please take it over Greg well that'll teach me to leave town exactly uhuh so um I got back late Friday night Saturday Satur morning I discovered that um I'd been volunteered and um I was asked to draft something that can be sent out what I don't know is is there a word count to to what gets blasted out um so if the question is is that is a word count for a news flash and so um there was not a maximum or minimum word count but usually news flashes are minimum just because of the whole idea that you want to get the message across quickly yeah so I would suggest is that you present what you have and then if the fincom feels like it can be shortened or oh lengthened and then we can work with the final um result so anticipating that because I've never done this before I wrote three versions of one is 67 words long one is about 126 words long the other one is about 180 eight words long and my hope is is that once we add specifics like oh by the way the meeting will be located here on this day in time so I don't have any of that information um we will have a short medium and longer version of what we are telling people instead of just saying hi we're holding a meeting please come I determined in the longest version of this that we probably needed some context because we get oh I don't know 45 people watching on acting TV um to to keep up to date with what the finance committee is to discussing so a lot of them may not understand why we're doing this or why this year isn't this a departure from previous years so in the long version it's four paragraphs long and the first two paragraphs provide context in the shorter versions the context begins to disappear to keep it shorter and we're about we're holding a hearing we would like you to participate now I can read these um can we email them so I did not I purposely did not distribute this to the entire uh to entire committee because I did not want to be accused of violating the open meeting law right so I would say why don't you read the first one okay and we the the long one the long and we as the Bears at the table will determine if you have reached goil loock status and if if not we will ask you to read the middle middle-sized one and see if we've then reached SC lock status I'm being plan to start with the middle and see if that just does it executive decision please start with a long one uh it has a headline act and finance committee holds listening sessions in a normal year the act and finance committee fincom reviews the budgets of for the town and the regional schools and makes recommendations to the select board and other appropriate entities such as the act and leadership group ALG the fincom also presents their assessment to the annual town meeting and issues an opinion on each of the warrant articles presented to the town meeting but this is not a normal year on April 30th 2024 Acton voters narrowly approved an override of the tax levy limit out of 6,46 votes cast in the annual tan election 3,25 were yes 50.0 3% 3,160 were no 4933 per and 41 were blank so the fincom has formed a focus group to hold a series of listing sessions to give residents and taxpayers an opportunity to share their thoughts on what they consider to be essential Services as well as their ideas on which costs could be cut this will help the fincom to articulate a clear and United Municipal message to develop and uh advocate for unified policies and to share information and work together to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of Municipal Service delivery so mangling this metaphor I would say that that borage is too bland in so far as I would pull out the out of line in paragraph two I'd pull out the out of all the way to the end of that paragraph and the rest of it I think is acceptable and I like it I would pull out that bland bit about the actual numbers we do not want people's eyes to Closs over at this time we're looking for opinion um not necessarily the hard fact until we have flesh out what the opinion means um I'm willing to entertain the the medium porridge but uh I like this one if we pull out that uh the second line of the second paragraph how does everyone feel about chrisy this is your show I shouldn't have said anything oh no um I'm sorry for not having gotten back to you sooner Outlook decided on I didn't need to know about any me emails until today it was a nice little break uh I really thought I hadn't gotten anything since sometime last week um I would start with fincom is looking for your feedback on taxes and services you're part to that effect first thing people see so they have a reason to keep reading I like the description of what we do and why we do it but they have to somehow maintain interest reading through that to get to what we're looking for so change the change the uh title from acting finance committee holding listing sessions to acting fincom is looking for your feedback does that deliver what you need yes and maybe um I'm I'm sorry I don't have it right in front of me I just want to look at I think one of the SEC uh sentences from the end could be moved up into a first paragraph level well the fourth paragraph is One S I only noticed this because my son is writing college essays um the so the vom is formative focus group I would make that be take off the sew and make that be the top sentence the top paragraph and then explain why we're doing it I know it's a little backwards for writing in general but I think it will maintain people's attention then we do have to add at the end of it he's absolutely right we do have to add the logistics of when the next meeting will be and yeah how it will be so if I am correct and we basically are uh starting with the fincom has formed a focus group Yes except it's not a focus group The Action finance committee is looking for for your feedback yes okay the finance committee is looking for your feedback your first paragraph is solid the second paragraph I would pull out the statistics hold on I'm I'm recommending that we take that third paragraph and move it to the beginning that that is the opening paragraph of the article okay because if there's anything we want people to get out of it it's not so we open with the third paragraph fourth third third third sorry sorry yes third third okay we eliminate the numbers and we need a specific closing in terms of where to go and when our first meeting our first session will be held on November 19th at the Active Memorial Library first floor okay our first session will be held on November 19 correct what time 7:30 now um does this sound appropriate to the rest of the committee or will the rest of the committee uh Rec uh allow Greg and Christie to finalize this verbage and put it into the news flash I'm not looking for a motion per se I'm looking for nodding of the heads very good okay Greg and Christie do you have what you need yes and I if I can go ahead and put the second date in there also to what we discussed at the senior center yes ma'am awesome thank you cool doable now chrisy that does mean uh between now and the 19th God forbid we have people who show up who are not interested in being vocal I do recommend that you have uh some friendly ceeding questions to help spark fun conversation I I already have an and that is your uh that is your homework between now and the 5th uh 19th 19th my apologies Greg do you wish to add anything very good Christie do you have more to discuss on the topic of the cost cutting initiative at this time or are we on hold as we look forward to hearing feedback from the public on the 19th that is it for that subject as far as I'm concerned great so we'll let you off the hook and you're done with that topic OG look you're on the hook for the next topic as well which is the school budget Task Force update that you just came from earlier this evening and I would like to extend the committee's Gratitude to you for doing back-to-back meetings this evening please share with us what you discovered at the school budget task force meeting today uh so Tory Campbell has been the school Committee Member running these meeting she stood up and the first thing she talked about was the various things they've been looking at for cost cutting um there were six items although one was split into an A and B section um in this budget that is currently coming out they are um have stopped using reserves for one time thing oh sorry they are only going to use reserves for onetime things that's what we want they are not planning on using reserves as I know it but that that is in this budget going forward um they've saved money by switching over to um Maya for the health insurance and she said something about Transportation adjustments it wasn't a context in which I could get more details about it um but my understanding is that they have compressed some of the roots and maybe are leasing fewer buses it was a little hard to follow everything in right at the same time would it be hold on Karen was there I think she can clarify I think what they're talking about is if they were go to go back to single tier elementary busing that they could reduce the number of buses I she we'll have to find out more because she said it's in this in the it's maybe they got rid of like four bus routes or something like that I think that might have been okay um and then what we're working on in the time frame of the task force is and again Ken's gonna have to confirm this with me because I was writing and and a little confused at the time um start times looking at educational structures that's where people are assigned in the district which is most of what we discussed um and getting into um how much could be saved by eliminating school choice what benefits there are there and then she said off the the table for right now and she said for right now is closing a school um I think it's important they got the conversation away from closing Conant it's really about the idea of closing a single Elementary School not necessarily that specific one I think people have focused in on that because of the building um she said it would save about 1.4 million but it would make classes beyond what is a good level in the other elementary schools to shift all the students over there even if you just shuttered con its's building until a time when we the education um enrollment ramped back up and that it would do a lot of harm to the students so they think that it's a better savings within the context of providing good education to focus elsewhere um less deception to the communities and the children um the consultant then stood up and he presented us ideas that have been effective for other schools um this company has worked at with more than 300 school systems in greater than 30 States they've been around this block a lot and he he pointed out that some things will sound crazy and some places that seemed totally normal in others which was kind of interesting in the context of this we're all sitting at tables with a mix of whoever shows up and you're encouraged to move around so today I was with a librarian uh parent and then just sort of a citizen at large last time I had a principal who I was sitting with and a teacher in a librarian and it's um so hearing all the perspectives is has been very useful he presented us with I believe Four Points we'll see if I get to a fourth um one way that a lot of schools will view budgets is they will round up the FTE for people they'll maybe really only need a three quarter of a teacher for something but they'll just presume that's one teacher then they find other things for the person to do they're not sitting there a quarter of their time but that's not necessarily the best way to split it out um one way to approach that to limit that hiring is to just share some of the resources more around the district that you could have a reading specialist who was Shar between schools that especially works well in our system if you have the uh twin school was the consultant suggesting that we are currently in the regime of rounding of FTE no okay they are going through a bunch of analysis which will be discussed next time this was ideas that he's currently seeing working in other districts that a lot are looking at some are reacting very negatively to but have found great savings and others it just it sort of trying to get us used to a shift in thinking um with any of the changes he said it's very important to um phase changes in through over time these aren't just drop down the changes you need to change support systems Etc the under pittings of administration all of it uh he also pointed out that equality is not the same as equity that it is easy for systems again not necessarily ours to allocate resources based on the school when um especially in terms of Specialists social workers mental health Etc it's really much more effective to use it based on need so if you have one school who needs much more rating help they should get more than one um rating specialist and one school that needs much left should not have a full-time rating specialist and that you can again you have to figure out the logistics but split it across multiple schools is a good way to do that and actually to do that and pretty much everything else based on formulas looking at the results that you get being willing to try things and then back off them which is a different way he was saying a lot of people get into their sort of thinking about how they've been doing things or how obviously how things should be done and he's trying to encourage School District to move towards actual analysis um the third idea was I I'm defining it as work smarter actually work with the teachers who are doing things to help them figure out how to be more efficient the example he gave was looking at a a group of reading Specialists and how many kids they were serving and was that meeting the need and they realized really they they weren't quite but part of what the specialist came up with was that they were choosing students based on the classroom when the classroom was available as opposed to grouping together the kids with the same problem so they were having five kids come in with all different problems when they could be much more efficient and give much better results if they brought in five kids with the same problem and work with them on it and once they started doing that they moved up to larger group sizes and were able to serve more students with better results so this is back to the a little bit of magic he was talking about about somehow you do more and get more or get more out of it and you're not spending more money so and again all this was followed up by um math and anecdotes which made it sound very good but a lot of what I took away from that one is the idea of again you want to roll this out over time but empowering the people working with the the students to help look at it from a a systemic level and move the change I I hate to ask such a finance committee question but are there metrics that they can use to measure against that to to see that they're making progress well yes and that's what he's pointing out is most places don't know what those metrics are so these were just highlevel here's what I have seen in places examples not here's what's happening in your school but he's saying specifically what is the average case load for a raing specialist how many kids do they serve how much of the time over the course of the day do they end up serving that if are there ways that you can shift their not reading specialist jobs to other people and have them reading specialist more of their day and okay improve everything so the overarching thread for all of this was figure out what you need to measure and start measuring it and see how when you make changes would affect that has uh I'm about to ask a subjective question which is terrible thing to do in a in a body that likes hard numbers but how do how did that go over in the room I think pretty well okay he's saying look there's a lot of things we haven't we don't tend to keep track of and it ends up you need to another example he had was of the social workers and counselors in the school they You Look Over Districts and they'll spend on average 30% of their time working with students oneon-one the rest of that time is spent doing paperwork and in meetings he said if you look at professionals they spend 887 % of their time working with people one one in group some districts have limited the paperwork and shifted the meetings such that they can actually turn down the meetings and um are getting much better results much better coverage for the students in terms of the mental health help that they need over um by making it be 75% student time just by telling the people that they don't have to come as many meetings they said was hugely helpful and switching over to doing more group things not just oneon-one really brought in the ability so he's talking about measuring a lot of those jobs that you don't measure okay um so he's trying to shift the mindset in that way and I guess there were only three points I feel like there was a fourth but might that might have been when I needed to leave and that was it I'm I'm going to find out there was I had to run out before it was done to get here they were going a little over so I don't know what homework was left he is hoping to come back for the next meeting with data based on um they took our like everyone's high level ideas I mentioned last time about like what if we just did this what would it save and they are still crunching those numbers he should have this for us and the next the next session is the 12th is that correct yes that's it any questions or anything you'd like me to bring up with them I I would love to get a little more clarity on this single tier busing whether it's single tier busing they're moving to or if they're changing to getting r four bus routes or if they're changing the start times i' like a little more structure on that um you mean on the saving in the fiscal year 26 budget okay and if there is something scheduled for the out years that would be good to know too okay I'll follow that up thank you anybody else have any questions uh thank you Christie uh do they have a goal for how much they am to cup with this uh task force how much they a to save is that what you're asking how much do they aim to cut uh no not that not in any way that I've heard it's as much I'm going into this with some optimism and some realism in terms of what could actually come out of it and I'm really hoping that there will be something good that this isn't effectively lip service we're still in the sort of everyone's trying to understand where we are phase I'll have a better idea for you later on it's a fairly compressed time frame frankly to to get anything big to come out of I don't see how it could but if this is an any way successful the idea is to move towards other topics that could have bigger impact but would also be harder they were talking about looking at um special education and something else um further down if this is effective are they are they going to measure effectiveness at the end of fy2 or at the end of f26 don't know so I have a question um my sense when I'm listening because I'm I'm the only peanut in the peanut gallery is that the conversations often seem to be dominated by people like by teachers or school committee members um do I so I'm not at the table hearing do is are the people are the Regular People speaking up and not being bulldozed by experts so what you hear about I I mean I'm at my tables and I know how I'm going to handle the discussion so I can't I don't know how other people are dealing with it I am finding it very useful to hear hear from the teachers administrators Etc what their experience is and then showing them sort of the the other perspective of it and using that because he'll present a question of how can this be done in this district and you have to look at the teachers and the administrators they like well how is it being done to know what could be done differently and then today we had a parent sitting with us and so I was able to talk about um leveling is one of those things that we look at in terms of equity isn't this wonderful but is it um I'd love to know the actual benefits educationally that we can measure going forward on having moved people squished down into this more middle level and part you're also dealing with teachers across lots of different yeah I mean like what I the at the first meeting a couple weeks ago what I heard was from teachers it seemed like like oh I can't imagine having any more you know burden on my whatever I don't know how they phrased it but basically you know basically any more any bigger class size is the way I interpret it um and you know you you go back 10 years and the class sizes were bigger and the kids were fine um and so I mean I've talked to teachers who taught some of those huge classes at the high school that we used to hear about and you would have to I mean they should really get some input from some of those people they were not forced to teach classes that large they basically volunteered to do it to give kids at higher levels basically a college like experience they they were like honors classes I'm not saying you would have 42 kids in an elementary school but I mean when you have to um you know they have not addressed declining enrollment and that was actually another statement I've heard Mr Le is it levenson is that his last name okay Nate say I think both you mentioned it last week again and that when you know districts are growing there's growth but the need the budgets can't keep up with the needs with you know with the growth we do not have growth in this District that's something that I was going to discuss with our chair how we can get the District to quantify some of this for us because there have been has been a significant increase in requirements mandates for helping kids there's been a significant shift towards English language Learners and um special EDS needs so I think it' be great to have the school district come in and quantify some of that for us and also just write down the numbers for why um closing in elementary is lay it out for us to see and for everyone because it comes up so often in conversation to that end something that has not been that I've not had a chance to discuss with anyone in this committee on is um the the conversation that I had with the school Committee Member there's two two things uh in immediate one thing in immediate succession one thing in medium-term succession the first is we should be getting the October October 1 uh enrollment numbers which is the most important you know rear and chairs uh number of the year we should be getting that any day now and then the second thing is um in discussion with the school committee um with a school Committee Member I should not say the entire school committee in discussion with a school committee member we are hoping to try and um and actually in response to a request from a select board member who had asked us when was the last time we had done any kind of housing analysis we're actually hoping to craft an appropriately appropriately worded for the lack of better term SQL query that does not step on anyone's privacy rights and does not show any uh any any uh information that should not be made public to see if we can't have a better Insight onto what housing turnover might mean for enrollment in the one five and seveny year and I realize those are odd numbers but they make sense if if you think about the terminology the the the timing in the one five and sevene roles and so so um we have not we have not even socialized that with the municipal side yet which is which is um so I'm giving you advanc notes of what we're trying to do um and obviously we would absolutely need quite a bit of the municipal side support on this uh our expectation is that because there is the census that goes out every single year and in correlation with the fact this was actually brought up at last night's select board meeting so I should mention it now uh don't be surprised if there's a uh an assessor walking around your property there's there's been an announcement about it there's three people whose names you should you should be familiar with in case they show up on your property if we we should be able to correlate the yearly census along with what we know about the given property and housing turnover we're trying to come up with uh the appropriate SQL query to run on this so that we can have a newer visibility into um into enrollment um and again this is the early stages of this but this is a year that I think everyone after last year's squeaker I think everyone is willing to uh start looking at different ways of trying to have more powerful data so that is an initiative that I've not brought back to the committee yet and I've not shared with the town yet so Maryann can knife me later uh but uh this is definitely something that uh the school and the finance the school committee and the finance committee uh are very keen on having a greater visibility into two Sarah to catch you off guard on that one but that's been discussed as well does that address your provided we can have that have that data and have it bear fruit does that address your uh concerns well yeah I mean better projections would be great I don't see a thousand students coming back anytime soon we're down a thousand students from Peak enrollment yeah I think the question there is is it costing more resources to educate some percentage of that yeah and like said there should I feel like those I get that there might be more needs that's what I hear but there's also a lot fewer students and there should be some offset there it shouldn't just be always going up you know per pupil spending is up 65% in the time inflation up is up 32% it's it's very out of whack and you so you know again the population's going down obviously that's why per p is going up but um ex said I don't see a thousand students coming back um and that's the main thing and they and they said even I I I hate to go down rabbit holes but I I guess that's what I do um like regionalization that was supposed to get us like some economies of scale combine three districts into one get rid of some administrative overhead we have more teachers in administrators now than we did before um you so like I looked at some I don't know like in the time that we've lost maybe four or 500 students in the last five years or something we've only got four fewer teachers according to the Desi website so that they're so when I hear them talking about like oh let's do fractional FTE don't round up in that meeting tonight I wonder how that's going to be received by the teachers please send me that information because I'd love to know if when that says for fewer teachers if it means teachers or FD because that makes a huge difference it does and and there was I'm not 100% sure about if you go I mean it's on the desie website and I can point you to it I was actually on there today looking for the updated enrollment data which is not yet there it was supposed to be it was they were supposed to be on the 18th um but the uh um oh thought just went out of my head forget it I just forgot what I was say thank you this all all food for thought this all fod for future conversations indeed are there any other topics on the great just the question um what Acton is going through um in terms of um um a drop in enrollment is not unique to Acton um my son is a history teacher at a high school in Boston um they've seen declining enrollment they to were trying to wrestle with you know what do we do one of the um issues that they're wrestling with that I haven't heard en acted and so I don't know if it's a issue here or not um is the impact of uh cell phones uh in the school system um now maybe that's a different issue in a different place but uh to the extent that um and it's anecdotal um my son says that teaching has changed dramatically because the students aren't focused on the teacher they're focused on their social media feed um and so I again that may not be a straight Financial issue but it certainly uh impacts the outcome uh and it may explain um why you know you could manage more students in a classroom before the iPhone than you could today I don't know it specifically has not come up fair enough okay so we will uh look to hear for hear more from you from the 12 other than that uh because we did all of our meeting minutes and our uh finance committee business first thing in the first thing in the session I will look to uh gang to uh take care of his responsibilities all right thank you uh uh I move to Second not debatable all those in fa uh we have to do this by we have to do this by uh by roll call vote I I hold on a second I will leave roll call requires the role being called Mr noon hi Mr Sullivan hi Miss Anderson hi Mr jarbo hi Miss Jones hi Mr wellinghoff not hearing Mr wellinghoff he will be marked as an abstain I thank you very much Mr wellinghoff and I am also an honor we are adjourned thank you