[Music] meeting of the Chan Board of Health to order May 14 2024 at 506 everybody put silence their phones this meeting is being audio and video tap we're just going to follow the agenda folks can you speak up please cuz it's hot to hear not yell I'll do the best I can but okay thank you we're going to just follow the uh agenda and when we get to PJ keting we get to PJ keting um Mr madas can't take part in the conversation so he asked to leave so we're out of courtesy to him we're going to take care of the rest of the agenda which isn't long so much first award of business we have correspond we have letter from Community nurse and Home Care statistics for March 2024 um actually what am I read this is minutes of the last meeting where's oh I'm sorry it's June 24th 2024 I was reading the minutes of the last meeting I'm sorry uh let me see the last to Hey Jo did I give you minutes down here yes I'm to start over this is June 4th 2024 um so first order of business correspondance letter from Community nurse and Home Care statistics for April 2024 review of matters presented votes may be taken a motion to file second motion all in favor I motion car approval of septic design plans subdivision plan review we have none on the agenda next item discussion contract of Public Health nursing review of matters presented votes may be taken Joe if I remember correctly we had some changes that were going to be made and updated yep they were Incorporated in um and Community nurse signed it hear him with the changes I'll make a motion to accept the contract specified is there a second all in favor I motion carries we have minutes to approve from May 14 2024 we are all in attendance is there a motion to approve motion to approve minut second all in favor I motion carries um can we get a motion to sign the voucher motion ass sign do second all in favor I motion carries so that brings us to appointments PJ keing to provide the board with updated an update of plant operation review of matters presented votes may be taken okay mention one little thing okay before I leave about U covid-19 there's a lot of it going around town so why to people that if you feel that you don't feel right don't feel good um I think we still have test in the office there still have some so if you feel that you don't feel right don't feel good fevers shakiness come by and we'll hook you up with a a test Camp that'll be at the partway school second floor there's an elevator if you need it you can take the elevator up to the second floor okay could everybody hear me back there yep okay excuse me Phils I have to go so what I want to do is PJ keing um has a presentation that they want to start out with um we will allow anybody and everybody that wants to get up and speak about anything that they've encountered in the past month or so um and then we'll just kind of go from there so with that I'll I'll hand the M over thank you Mr chair Luke leer McGregor leer and Stevens I represent PJ keing company um as the chairman just noted we are here this evening to give the board an update uh just to put this in context the board and PJ keing entered into an agreement through the court uh whereby King is allowed to operate the HMA plant for a period of about 3 months 90 days um during that time we agreed among other things to come meet with the Board of Health once monthly essentially to report on what's been done to date what days we've been operating complaints received responses to those complaints uh and then answer any other questions that the board may have for us so that's certainly why we're here this evening I do have a presentation loaded up here as you noted this is a little different than the one that we sent at the end of last week it's got those slides that you have but we've beefed it up a little bit with some additional information as well um so just so you're aware as you're following through it won't all track perfectly um but with me here this evening Derek Hill as the president of PJ heating company we have other PJ heating employees here also I'm not going to name each and every one of them um but also Lou Rose from Alliance technical group who is an outside consultant working with PJ heating uh and I'll let him better describe his qualifications for you later but essentially uh he is an expert consultant trained in identifying and measuring qus uh like that so without further Ado uh unless you have a question I I just want to say if we could hold questions let him finish a presentation and then we can take any questions directed at Mr leir Mr Hill or whomever the board wherever you want yeah thank you that would be appreciated thank you for that okay great so uh jerck Hill president of PJ keing U they say time appes when you're having fun and this is my third season so uh you know appreciate the opportunity to come and uh discuss uh what we've been doing uh at the asphalt plant and we're going to go back to like 2022 uh where we were issued the cease deist order from the town and kind of take it from there as to the things we've been doing on the property next slide so Community engagement uh PJ we're invested in being a good corporate citizen uh since the 2000s we've uh we between money materials time over $675,000 have been into the community in the area that includes things with schools food drives uh breakfast all of that so you know in 2023 we raised over $26,000 at our customer golf tournament uh right here in at Pleasant Valley in a kushit all of that money uh is gone to the the school um we had additional uh Community engagement but every fall um we do a food drive where we weigh weigh the food um um and then we match dollar for dollar and we did that at all the facilities at keing it's been a great success um I'm truly proud of the work that PJ keing employees uh do well when it comes to our food drives and our donations and our community engagement projects as well as just their day-to-day commitment to being a professional um highquality producer of construction materials so thanks to them um they make my job easy um Additionally you know it's got there so you know asphalt basketball's essential if you think about what really gets you what what really gets you upset um during the winter or an ice storm or a wind storm when you lose power are the same things you know when you start thinking about the essential uh construction materials of Ready Mix Concrete hun mix asphalt and and Aggregates the real question is you know how did you get here you got here on a paved Road when you go home tonight you're going to go to your house you're going to be on a ready mixed concrete foundation right all starts with Aggregates and leads through this so you know um our industry is essential National Security you look at the Eisenhower Interstate System it was built in the ' 50s and it was built from a national security standpoint and and it lives that model today you know think about the harbor and the ports all of that rock came out of here out of the out of the Quarry and a Kush it um so you know asphalt's essentially of the economy the Vitality of the South Coast Economy and Beyond um and you know we create high paying career jobs right people you know people send their kids off to college they have a nice house they do all of those things these are high quality full-time jobs career paying jobs the economic multiplier effect when they say the uh lieutenant governor spoke recently and uh a billion dollars of Transportation investment uh equites to 13,000 paying jobs and in you know in States like Massachusetts and Rel those are union jobs and those are highp paying quality jobs um a local source to construction materials keeps your taxes low so since uh the shuttering of our facility you can look in the surrounding towns and uh you know their their their cost to continue to keep their infrastructure is up over 30% so you know the far it's at some point it's economically not feasible to bring materials uh so far particularly hot mix asphalt and rimx concrete they are perishable products um and every extra mile we drive with a truck loaded with Aggregates is just increasing our carbon footprinting putting more wear and tear on your roads which ultimately then comes back to you the taxpayers um at the local level at your town level but also at the state level uh because you know it's costing more money to to rebuild your infrastructure so back to losing your power you can't turn your lights on you can't get water real inconvenience start to think about if you if you commute through Rhode Island right now the Washington Bridge is a real inconvenience there's you know lots of different examples thankfully nothing in Massachusetts at this point with a catastrophic Lo loss of a bridge but we we see and read about those things every day in the news um you know we're an industrial Zone and we've been in business since the 18 in next so we've invested more than 5 thou $500,000 in best available control technology on the asphalt plant and this goes back to 2022 um we actually had Aztec the manufacturer of our the asol plant here to U meet with us and share best available control technology practices across the United States so one of the places they they brought um insight to us was uh in in in downtown Los Angeles there's a small asphalt plant that uh that they work with and and did enclosures in a blue smoke package so you know they came to the facility we listened and we began to uh you know look at look at our asphalt plant to see how we could improve um the exist existing technology the asphalt plant in a Kush is one of the newest I think it is the newest asphalt plant in the state of Massachusetts so it came with quite a bit of best available control technology but we we decided to kind of supersize that right so uh again we uh we met with the engineers they gave us some feedback we worked with them they've actually taken what we're doing and sharing that with other um other manufacturers in the industry now so um we also evaluated uh retained um experts on on odor complaints um and a toxicologist so I think and you know we could go back to that but all of that information was provided in 2022 to the board um and we certainly again and I just add there I think that's the significance of 2022 that's when we were before the Board of Health initially uh so really a lot of what you're hearing about is in response and reaction to what we heard from residents and the board back in the summer of 2022 a couple years ago so we'll go 23 so in 23 we improved the um Loadout area of the enclosure and we did additional improvements to that this spring um in closing the um the load out area um and we also uh you know looked at the inside the load out area and outside there are there's a set of horseshoe exhaust fans and I think we've shared that to others but we looked at that and we identified um a need to change some of the dampers so I think about your wood stove and your flu you know so we changed the dampers we've changed the actuators kind of stepping into 24 claudo and his team identified that the actuators when we started the year um they were functioning but not functioning as efficiently as possible so they took it upon themselves to replace all the actuators they're just you know you know the air oxidized whatever so they were moving slower or some of them were sticking so we just made the choice to change that so the actuators open the dampers um as we're loading a um a a load of hot mix into a truck right so um improve the efficacy of the load out area right so it's draing that up um so we did that uh we use a product called ecosorb uh in h production the other thing we're focusing on going really benefits a couple things warm mix asphalt so warm mix asphalt is making hot mix asphalt down below 300° approximately 285 conventionally asphalt's been made all the way up into the 320° range obviously the harder we make asphalt um the the greater the potential for a burn off of low um volatiles because a petroleum based car so the as we bring the temperature down we decrease um the burn so so that's been a benefit and and and a focus here on uh making sure that all the loads go out as more mixed asol F does a really good job of maintaining that regardless of the customers it's telling them they want super fine and super hot he just says we're loading out of Silo number three right and that's what it is um and we stepped up fleecing and enforcement of rules to ensure truck tarping um we've actually turned away several customers at the spring of this year um because of our tarping policy that they came in with the wrong tarps and we said sorry we can't load you right you have to go somewhere else so um that's kind of where we started we started that effort last year and continued it again this spring when we opened so again um still some other things the other things we did here is uh we didn't we weren't using the asphalt tanks until late last year but when we did what happens is we load off and we we pump off to the asphalt tank and as the as the tank fills in the liquid you can kind of think of these the top of the tank it burps so what we put is a plumbing system here you can see that with a a variable frequency drive motor and an actuator so as those tanks fill when we're pumping off we're capturing any any excess uh you know fume that's going to go out through the um charcoal filters um and we're capturing that and bringing that down into our blue smoke package as well so you know so we're trying to capture any potential point source uh of blue smoke right and blue smoke would be the odor component so we also did that to the lab um we're required in our labs to do samples and burn offs so that was also a point source so we put the team put a hood over that and capture that and all of that goes into the blue smoke package um to capture all that so that's kind of where we did um and we also retained uh Alliance Alliance last year to begin the analysis of odors in the neighborhoods and on our property right and I'll let Lou speak to um the uh nasal Ranger and and and what he does in his resume of work so that started last year and I believe we provided last year's report to the Board of Health so again continue to improve on the load out areas one of the things the team identified was you know we have uh a set of silos and so what we identified was last year we we encapsulated the sides and the and the front you can kind of see how that drops down to the height of the truck um they went through and added skirting on the sides to narrow that up as well as they added skirting inside this Silo between each of the silos so when we're loading out of one there's a set of skirts right right there to slow say on a windier day um to capture that so we're knocking that that down and kind of keeping it inside the um the load out area um we partnered with ecosorb last fall um we gave them spec uh specific samples of the liquid we typically buy from from the vendors um in that market and we work with them on a product uh based on that liquid for us as a suppressive so that's a uh ecosur offers uh various products to the industry but the one we asked and partnered with um and we're we're going to try we're trying now is a um a suppressant asphalt suppressant so it's attaching a molecule to that odor and dropping it down so so far I think we're we're seeing positive results with that as well um so those are the big big pieces so far and the only other thing on this would be uh I mentioned the actuators we we replace the actuators on the um on the dampers um for the source evacuation system the other thing that the team did proactively on a Saturday was go in and change the prefilters in the blue smoke package so I can kind of think about your lawn mower and your you know your mowe all season last year and now you're going to start mowing again this year right thing to do is probably go and look at your air filter and and clean that out the the B house for the blue smoke package is a series it's a so it has a series of pre filters much like you know bigger in size but much like you would have for your lawn mower and then it has a series of bags behind it um and then it has a pan at the bottom which would catch the sludge and then that sludge when when required we we ship that off to clean harbers that's that did you want to want me to speak to this one um sure you want to sure um yeah so this slide just provides some of the information that we had agreed to uh give to the board and to the residents during these monthly meetings so um we've captured here the days under which the plant was operating uh we started the last day of April and then through the month of May so you can see there listed out all the days total of 22 days uh that the facility was in operation basically the month of May uh and that last day of April um during that time complaints were received through the portal on 7 different days uh a couple of those days had more than one one I think one had two complaints the 31st uh one the night had three complaints um so 22 days operating 7 days where complaints were received uh I've noted the times on a couple of those complaints only just to illustrate um that they came in and were received after keeping it actually shut down for the day so when we're talking about the procedures that eatings employees typically follow we couldn't follow on those couple complaints because we'd already shut down today in the employ but um in terms of the procedures that keting typically follows and Derek can sort of Flesh this out if I miss anything but we've sort of summarized it here uh PD gets notified when a complaint comes through the portal um an employee will try to contact the individual who has filed that complaint there's been a couple times I'm aware uh where they' go to voicemail in the mailbox to be full or something like that but the vast majority of these times to my understanding they were able to actually connect with and speak with the CL the complaint um and then they go out and visit the area and the reason for doing that there are several reasons really for doing that but the primary reason is trying to understand hey what's the source uh B what's the cause C what's the severity of the order and that's where uh Lou is going to chime in a little bit more later uh a couple of the days here where complaints have been received uh including May 9th which was the day where we received the most complaints uh Alliance was actually here and was able to go out in real time to investigate the complaints and actually quantify it with the types of measurements they do um so that's why you'll see there that second bullet uh under the procedures when they're when Alliance is here and they're here once a week uh typically they'll go out themselves uh either in addition to or instead of a p he employe um and investigate those things in real time um and then finally uh regardless frankly of whether complaints are being received or not um if dereck's here he may do it himself if he's not it would be somebody else from the heating team just proactively goes out a couple few times a day and drives the neighborhood uh the neb the surrounding neighborhoods just to make sure there's nothing uh you know they smell that's problematic to make sure that there aren't any issues or or anything that they observe um either with their eyes or with their nose or otherwise um just again to be proactive and try to St top so that's again sort of a generic description just generally of what happens when a complaints filed and received by I mean luk the only other thing that you might want to comment on is that not every odor in town is PJ ke's Bal and we've had several situations where their complaints have been put into the portal but it was something else in the area right so it's just important to recognize that what would that be well so one example I can give you right now no no he's made a statement I wanted to back it up okay so I live in this neighborhood what is the alternative source that you're claiming right now well there was a I thought we're were going to wait for questions till the end but if if I'm okay very good so um we'll pull it up want to know but odor the complaint the portal said I smell burning rubber and wire what was the alternative Source do you well we don't know that that's all I just want to make that clear um yeah I can actually tell you the date because I was in fact uh in court with Mr Murray's colleague Mr Blake May 8th uh heating's facility was not operating um and I I got a report from from Derek and a couple of leting employees that day we're not operating but it stinks out here we smell burning wire it smells like maybe burning rubber this is not us if anybody complains it's not us today we're not even running the plant today the C May is not a day that they were actually operating it does seem to be listic up there even though it wasn't um so we're getting ourselves I guess oh no I'm sorry we were operating maybe we just quote right there wasn't anyone on site is what you're saying they SM so at any rate the point is to Simply say heaing employees did in fact smell odor on the E it was not from our facility we you know I sort of told Jeff that day in court hey just FYI complaints come in about this we're smelling it too and that was the complaint that came in was about that smell so that's to answer your question that's an example another example was last year there was a a complaint received in the the portal by a lady that was gardening um on one of the streets on this side of the road we went out uh Mark Pillsbury the vice president of asphalt and myself went out there and the neighbor uh who was a mechanic for a construction company uh was cutting up a pickup truck and there was a fire based on when you start burning and cutting up the tires got on fire the antifreeze hose was on fire we took pictures of that as another example of odor coming out that is not a pleasant odor but it was our fault so I mean that's a second example uh of that of that situation so not every odor is our fault in this town well we're not talking about the whole town we're talking about this neighborhood we're going to reserve the question later um I am curious though you said you're you were open on the E but not operating the plan is that what you're trying to say so I I probably got myself a little turned around I quite clearly did as I understand it the plant was not operating it was a rain so there were employees at the site but the plant was so if the employees were at the facility even though the asphalt plant wasn't running did you still follow up the complaint to find out where the Odo was coming from the complaint was filed the next morning at 6:30 a.m. before heating had begun operating but it was the same it was description of burning wire was the same SM my employee sent me an email on that day as well as other employee saying hey we're getting nauseous on the facility just want you to know that there's an odor coming from an abing property nobody went out we we have video with it I don't think it's appropriate for me to drop a dime on in a butter um we have the video of that so you didn't go and investigate yes okay that's why I wanted to and then when the complaint did come in on the nth that was actually a day that Alliance was here so all the pro all the procedures laid out here were followed when the complaint came in up the night we can proceed thanks um so sort of continuing on that path um and getting more specific with respect to specific complaints that came in and what was done um heating shut down its plant on the seventh um there was a complaint received on the 6th which was one of the men ones mentioned on the prior slide where it came in after hours um so on the 7th heating took a look to see what might have been an issue identified a malfunctioning component replac it uh on the nth which was a day that three yeah so did the the Oder on the six night of the 6 was it caused by the malfunction components and that's why the next day you shut down that I don't no I think we we it gave us a second set of eyes so I was at the facility and I went with claudo and Mark and we said hey let's just take a look and we were looking at it and we said it doesn't look like a the efficacy on some of our source extractors are are working as well as they should be and then that's when they identified the actuator sticking and then that's so from that we then replaced all I we just said let's replace all the actuators because we we don't know which ones are necessarily functioning all the time and we pretty much could see that over the winter there was some you know some corrosion and rust on them so the claudo took the the lead of replacing all of those actuator uh they're just a little tiny thing to open those Stampers to make sure efficacy of source evacuation is optimal okay so my follow question if is it possible and this is probably a dumb question but is it possible for the plant to be shut down and there to be a malfunction and for there to be some sort of order emitted from the malfunction I if if I could just the complaint as filed if I'm not mistaken I don't have for me was it was filed after hours but it wasn't saying I smell this right now it was it smelled it smelled this afternoon or something along those lines so the so the complaint wasn't saying he it stinks now at 520 whatever time it was filed it was I believe kind of that's just when they happened to file so the based on the complaint you look tried to analyze what is everything functioning properly and you found no so we're going to shut it down and well no yeah so when when I came in and we I saw clo and we and and we chatted I said let's just take a look as we were loading some trucks out and we said it doesn't look like the advocacy it was still working but not working to the extent that the improvements should have had it working and so the decision was to replace the actual waves okay could they have been malfunctioning the day before when the complaint T actually smelled it it could have been might have been more a function of wind direction again you know could have been a couple of those pieces but but we did we did take the approach to replace them all because of what we what we saw in the one that was sticking and that was claudo he pretty much said hey this one's rusted and sticking my guess is you know these these aren't really designed to be you know out in the elements like they are so they just made the decision to uh replace them and a couple ones that are hard to reach they uh actually extended them down so they're much easier for the team to look at and evaluate and replace if necessary in the future how often do you replace them we um I mean is it we're kind broken yeah there's not really a pre you know they don't give us like a preventive maintenance plan around it saying hey after X hours or that's not what it is so we're we're kind of learning I think right now from claudo with the team we probably sit here and say going forward we would replace those at startup in the spring because they're exposed to the elements over the winter and so forth so I think that's from our learnings that would be something I think we' put in a Playbook to say you know let's just go ahead and replace those um until they build a better M track okay uh okay so moving on to the ninth uh as I may have started to mention that was in fact a day that Alliance was on site so uh Lou in a short while here's got a table that's going to sort of lay out the days that they've been on site and what they all defer to that but sufficing to say uh that was a day that Alliance was here in real time went out to investigate the complaints uh also same day um heating made the decision to increase the percentage of warm mix asphalt Derek described earlier the difference between more war mix asphalt and hot mix asphalt um as a way to try to just reduce the emissions a little bit uh there was a complaint that came in on the 17th of May if I'm not mistaken that was again the other one that was uh maybe after hours but regardless uh on the 18th heating replaced the pre- filters in the blue smoke bag house um and then again on the 31st uh end of last week another day where Alliance was on site and able to investigate um and as Derek mentioned earlier there have been at least three instances so far in the past month where heating has refused to load out trucks because they have not arrived with proper Target um so that's another way a couple of the complaints that have come in have been related to drugs so that's just again another illustration of specifically an action Tak um and this at this point is now for Alliance so I'm going to hand it off to Lou Rose and he's just going to take a spin through what he and Alliance have been doing evening uh my name is l Rose I'll tell you a little bit about our company um a little bit about myself and our involvement here recently with uh PJD um Alliance has uh been around for over 30 years um at this point we've been doing some growth the last few years we've got over 1,300 employees in over 40 offices across North America our service lines include uh a lot of environmental work specifically um air testing we do stack testing we do lar which is elak detection and repair um we've got software companies now that uh that are part of Alliance um so you can design software um we've got continuous emissions monitoring systems Sims Services analytical Laboratory um environmental Consulting and ambient air monitoring and that's where I come in um again I'm L I've got a bachel of Science and Engineering um from Sun ESF in Syracuse New York um I'm actually born and raised in Western Massachusetts after going to school I'm up in Syracuse I stuck around um married I've got two boys ages 3 and six love the outdoors just a little bit about myself uh so I'm a project manager at Alliance um I've been in the industry for over 14 years and my focus has been in ambient air quality um that's really related to fence line monitoring programs uh remediation sites odor investigations air sampling um we Design Air monitoring systems and software that go with it so that customers can view data in real time uh depending on what the what the facility and the constituents are um and depending on if there's any project uh criteria or local ordinances or anything like that um So within ambient air quality uh one of our service lines is odor and um some of this information is just a a little bit of a background on on what we can do what we provide um and then I'll get into what we've done here for with PJP so there are uh odor observations this could be up close to a source or at a at the fence line property boundary um or just somewhere in an ambient location um there are different ways to uh measure odors and describe odors there are qualitative descriptors um this odor is strong it's here all the time it smells like this uh there are other uh methods that you can use to quantitatively measure odors these would be through the use of a field fomer or grabbing an air sample and sending it off to a laboratory where a panel of folks would sit down um and and Sample that air and smell that air as well um so an oldometer uh just to explain the principle there in the field we're able to use this device it's pictured in the in the top right and the bottom right um this is taking ambient air and passing it through different size orices uh which are determining dilutions and there are carbon filters and in essence the the more times you dilute an odor or you dilute that ambient air if you can still smell that odor the stronger the odor and each one of these orifici sites is is associated with a a number um a dilution the threshold number so the threshold is that's the point where you can smell it uh so the typical practice is you started at the highest reading that you can and you work your way down until you first smell that odor and there's procedures in the field you go back and forth between high level low level until you you get the the the first point where you smell that odor and that's our way to quantify um an odor putting a number on it odors are very subjective um it's a it's a touchy subject and that's why um anybody who's uh on the odor panel or a field Observer is pre-screened um for odor sensitivity in old factory sense we want somebody who's at least a average um whole Factory sents there are people who can hardly smell at all and there are people who are hyp sensitive and we try to have folks that are um doing our observations somewhere right in the happy medium you can go back to that one um so there are uh evaluations um and there's also mitigation techniques uh that can be implemented when it comes to odors um when we're talking about evaluation some of the things that we can do are we can come in and rank odor sources based on those odor levels from the threshold um and uh potentially emission rates depending on what the source is where you can measure air flow um you can create models you know showing if you have a certain strength odor at a source and the winds are in such a direction at such a strength you can kind of predict what uh potential oders might be further down with um mitigation techniques include process modifications uh such as is changing ingredients or production rates uh there can also be capture and control um devices scrubbers uh capture hoods um physical barriers such as poly tarps spray covers um the spray covers we see a lot on remediation sites you've got some sort of uh soil impacted soil that is in a stockpile it's not going to be moved or relocated offside for a while they either cover that with um with a poly cheating a tarp or uh some sort of foam or a temporary concrete and create a shell over that odor Source um there are other options odor neutralizers and additives uh misting systems and one of the things that we do is um we do bench and field testing to uh evaluate the effectiveness some of those control Technologies um so personally I got involved PJ keing um and Alliance uh last year um towards the end of the summer we came in on an initial uh site visit and we took a look at all the various older sources on site and we kind of identified primary uh potential sources and then um uh we got the The Rundown with the PJ keing folks of the process and um the various components along that process and then we performed uh during that visit and then also four subsequent visits uh some oder surveys where we typically start at the facility um we're measuring around those odor sources we want to know are there odor sources here on site today can we smell them we get readings um we're looking at the winds um wind direction is always pretty critical in these situations so uh onsite uh or local meteorological station a weather station for wind speed and wind direction um is pretty critical and we try to Target these observations when conditions are light winds um in a consistent Direction and we we're targeting varying wind directions so that we can um gather data in different downwind sectors and those conditions the the light winds um consistent Direction those usually make for what I would consider worst case odor scenarios um right the the most odor lingering in an area the more windy it is some more dispersion um so we had found uh during those five well five visits um last year and then we've also done four so far this year as DJ keing has mentioned um during the month of May we're coming out once a week and um typically what we've seen is uh when when the facil is operating we've seen some odors in close and around the um various sources and then we head out to the property boundary and if we detect odors there um they've typically been pretty low and then we move out to the community we're focusing we do go upwind as well um but we're focusing our efforts downwind where those uh potential odors might be traveling uh when we go out we're documenting um anything we find that could be related to the facility and also anything else that we're smelling that might not be facility related um that doesn't necessarily I mean it smells good or bad it could be roses or um somebody sealed the driveway uh lawn mowing you know all those things are quantifiable with an odor strength um and we can tag along a characteristic with that but we're not we're not the ones that decide that smells good or bad that's you know subjective to the individual um one of the things that we did find the few times that we did detect uh odors within the community downwind is that we could smell them with our call our the naked nose um but once we started using the nasal Ranger to try to quantify those odors even getting all the way down to the lowest dilution which is a tu uh we were not able to detect those odors so we call that a less than two we're not saying there's no odor right we can smell it but when we try to quantify that odor um we can't Quantified on the nasal Ranger so there is an odor there and uh we discern that in our notes as calling it less than two cuz we know it's not a two but there is some sort of OD there hey might it might be helpful for the board just to explain you know like the scale essentially you know so you're saying less than two maybe to just put that in context sure um and I think some of the some of that information is probably in the uh report that we submitted to you guys last year where up close to the sources um you know within within a few feet for example we can measure things over 100 uh DT dilution the threshold um and then as that's backing out towards the property boundary we're down at four a two less than a two um uh okay so this is a table from observations um where we were out this year in the month May the the four weeks that we're out there for observations um and these are just some of the some of the notes that we have in doing our surveys where we keep track of when we are there um some facility operational conditions uh was the was the plant up and running and for us and the potential odor sources that doesn't just mean are they loading trucks out um are they also mixing asphalt you know all all the processes are all the processes running Max maximum potential odor emission sources um and then as we're heading out towards the property boundary uh you can see in the fifth column there some of the highest odor readings that we got that we detected closest to the property boundaries so some of those are inwind a little bit depending on the wind direction looking at the 2 second specifically um and then also the maximum uh uh odor that we detected downwind in the community on those days um so you can see we did detect odor down in the community um but they were not quantifiable on the on the Nel Ranger on those days at those times um and then there again just some operational uh conditions there we're typically looking at you know which fill L is being used are the trucks being loaded on the North End or the South End um uh is the the plume from the bag house you know is that visible we know everything is up and running um those are just you know add to our our documentation so on May 9th you were at the facility from 743 to 952 and that was it for the that includes the that includes being out at the community as well yeah we're just we're typically uh couple hours subcribe to me at 7:43 how time where you are and and the time not just sitting in a truck you know with nose Bloods you know from right so these I mean we haven't reported this data yet the the data that we've reported previously we include our field forms which give a breakdown of every location in general just give me a concept of typically at 7:43 you're on site at 7:53 you're over at the other corner of the site what do you do it's typically um up to an hour typically a little under an hour onsite right again we're just we're confirming that the potential sources are active so you're walking around the perimeter we're walking walking right up to truck we're it's it's all wind dependent so we're focusing downwind we do go up wind of the sources and also of the site so whever the downwind is that's what your our efforts are FOC downwind yep that's correct so we could be within 50 ft of a truck being loaded um we could be walking around the outside of the Quarry uh we're typically towards the the front of the property but if there's a Westerly wind the winds are blowing out over the Quarry um at quite a distance so we depending on the wind direction we'll try to mimic distances uh if the winds are not if the winds are such that downwind receptor off site is not in line then we can mimic those distances at least and say okay well at 200 ft away from a source even though the wind is not blowing in a Direction that's favorable to potentially get some OB say odors we can mimic that distance and say okay well at this distance you know here's what we're getting so when the other thing that we provide is part of the are right up in our documentation are is a map showing each point where we've detected an order if it was cite related or not um and then that goes along with our form which shows the time that we were there the quantifiable measurement if we were able to get one um descriptor and a frequency so the the other thing is frequency uh are typical descriptors there are fleeting intermittent and persistent so there's you think you smelled something and it's gone and that's a fleeting odor intermittent it's kind of coming and going maybe the wind's lofting and then persistent odor is you it just smells you're there it smells simp question does Alliance um monitor other facilities similar to PJ keting in this state for odors yes um I we have one right now in New York um not aware of another one in Massachusetts right now um but I for example in New York there's a uh that particular town There's a town ordinance um and we collect data and just again it's objective data just showing whether there were oders from the facility or not if there's other odors out there in the community and then they do what they do with that data would that New York facility have the same wind patterns as we have around here probably slightly different I mean in general right we're in the Northeast most of the winds are going to be Westerly but um there are local uh there's how many there two meteorological stations that were're collecting data from right on site locally from PJ keing um so it's you know supposed to going to the airport or something like that so we're monitoring the winds right on the side when we're when we're describing and we're doing this upwind downwind um obviously the conditions that we're observing at that time but we're also looking at real time data I I I think I'd like to allow the the audience one question at a time um I think you can just stand speak if you want Douglas Thomas obviously a Kush it neighbor um is there a particular reason why these tests are conducted at 7 and 7:30 in the morning instead of the peak of the day which is around typically the the height of business is around noon time has a study been done say at noon time versus 7 7:30 in the morning when people are actually getting going in those businesses okay yeah I mean our our Direction initially um was a lot of complaints were coming in earlier in the morning when folks were getting their days started uh starting their commute or getting the kids on the bus or whatever the case may be um that's also tends to be the more favorable meteorological conditions those seral still low wind speed conditions um as the day goes on typically as the sun's coming up the wind speeds will increase and that's causing more dispersion um and typically when there's higher wind speeds and more dispersion it's harder to quantify ODS and if I could just comment on that just to the production side um uh our our highest productivity because you know we're we're limited right now is when uh when we start producing we're producing at the highest rate right away because there's a bigger demand to get those first rounds of trucks out into the to the different jobs um that are out there so Peak production starts right at 7:00 and runs through um and and that's the that's the highest intensity it doesn't mean that it it it won't stay like that to a certain point like doing 3,000 tons in a day or something like that but those first few hours we're we're optimizing that plant to load those silos and just for example the the um one of the facilities in New York they requested because most of the uh complaints have come in in the evening hours so we're typically there for a couple hours in the evening so something else I would I would like to add this New York site compared to the Acushnet site keep in mind they're only only running at a a small percentage at roughly 30% um don't hold me to that so these numbers are going to be way out of line if you if you are going to do um a mathematical calculation on production well it be based on emission rates um and we haven't we haven't pulled samples uh for constituents and in calculating the emission rates um but that that would be based on emission rates and a model is how you would calculate the more you produce the more emissions and and other carbon footprints that you're going to give off because you're only running out of percentage and I'm no mathematician or any other um you know scientific engineer um like I say we're only they're only running out of percentage so I I just think mathematically these numbers you know they're obviously going to go higher I just think that should be something that should be looked at is all I'm saying what what is the percentage you're running that I'm not sure I just wanted to chime in and I'll Derek may be better equipped to answer this but I mean it's my understanding that what uh was just suggested is really not the case in terms of of odor that I don't know that the number 30 is the correct number but let's just say it is um you know if they're operating at say 30% capacity the odors are the odors so that if they go up to 80% capacity that doesn't mean that the oders are going to be now you know 50% worse or or that um there's not that not that's no I mean very serious I don't believe that correlation exists um but I I don't know if you have anything to add D but I I just um would like you to Pro provide the documentation to substantiate a claim and then we'll be happy to provide documentation from the manufacturers but you know you're wrong so so please provide the documentation that substantiates your claim we'll come back and provide information from the manufacturers but actually um starting and stop stopping the plant is probably a time where we would have greater odor uh and what we try to do is run the we try to step the pl up and then run it consistant so whether it runs at 200 tons per hour 300 tons per hour or 400 tons per hour the goal is to run the plant consistently so the burn is clean so if you think about starting and stopping your propane stove or any of those devices your car you know it's very similar over there and and and we'll be happy to come back and present that information to the board right but are we willing to roll the dice on this show us a comparison to another operating facility that's manufacturing 100% to show this public what we're looking at this is all hogwash the these numbers they're running at 30% don't so so what is what is the amount being produced right now Derek let's be Mr chair may I just questions be directed at least for you Mr chair please just direct the question through me and we'll get the question out I have a question what is your question again what is the current rate of production let's start beating around the bush Derek are you making 300 tons an hour are you making 5 00 tons an hour are you making 5,000 tons a day do you not want to tell us I mean because you have issues already and the production is at what amount I think and we're already pretty dissatisfied I think you know the amount of people that are here that I think it's a fair question I think it's a fair question they ask what is round about your average tonage per hour and what is your ultimate goal I think it's for ask well I'll be happy to provide the information you know I'm not going to sit here and throw out some numbers um but you know whether and and I think it's important to understand our process right so we're not going to run at 400 tons per hour from 7 to 5 if we don't have customer demand that we're we're not like a factory where we're making fendors for a Ford pickup truck and we just continue to make them we make a perishable product so we don't just come in we and so tomorrow like Friday before Memorial Day the demand for hot mix asphalt is significantly different than the demand on maybe a Tuesday um if it hasn't rained so we get rain our our demand is different so our tons per hour is different the amount we sell is different so every day we don't come in and say we're going to run 400 tons per hour for 8 hours because we may not have the demand for the product right so we we we have a schedule and we try to meet that schedule plus use a little bit of factor a little factoring um to allow for additional on call customers but we don't we don't make hot mix asphalt um and maximize it every day and and some days we could be 10% of our our rated capacity and um you got to remember that our rated capacity right now is only 7 to5 right so let's just say we're 400 tons per hour right so you know in 7 7 to 5 we could what we could make 4,000 tons in a day um we've had several days so far this year that we're over over 2,000 tons we have several days where we've had complaints and we may have only put up 300 tons because of weather so it's it's just not a it's it's it's not we're not making a car part so we don't the factory doesn't doesn't start and uh it's not like making title golf balls if the factory starts at 7:00 and everyone goes to work the production line goes right go that way let me rephrase the question from me then um you're allowed so much tonnage per year correct our air permit yeah our air permit is specific to uh hours of operation and uh tons per year but for well historically the town is only allowed so much per year right I'm going sure I follow or is that related to The Rock the asphalt is all right so let's say say based on what you just said what would be the Tage if you were doing the maximum allowable so per hour I understand where the where the audience is going and that's why I'm I'm just right now is it is it so that we're running at 30% so everything isn't so bad and then things ramp up and that's the concern again that what what where where have you gotten to at this point what is the amount that you've produced what is the largest amount that you I think that's the an average what is an average largest amount that you produced well I just explained to you that you know we've had days in excess of 2,000 tons and we've also had days where we haven't done but in excess of 2,000 tons 2300 tons in a day okay that's I think that's what they want to know Y and what could you do that's what I want um in a 10-hour working window with the restrictions that that you placed on us U at 400 tons per hour that would be 4,000 tons what do you allow under your permit uh our permit we did in the past uh done in the past we've done over 800,000 I think the highest year was 880,000 tons um I just have to I don't have my permit in front of me but 1.2 million yeah Mr chairman question for Alliance is that is that data is that included in your data what's the amounts being produced when you collect your data yeah that that's I something I'd like to know that's not Thea that that I have so you're not you're not even privy to that data we're looking at what the operational conditions are where they running you're not you're not logging and quantifying what's being produced in your data as you collect it no amounts being produced no nope so just so you know like right now through year-to dat asphalt tons through the plant basically are 29,6 tons most of that was in the month of May I mean so again you know we're seasonal business we're very much like a farm right you if you if all of a sudden morah decides to give you every contract in the state how much could you put out well I mean our our operating hours on the plan are clear so um you know we could we I I think we could do I I'll provide that information to you next month I'll show it to you you you have a copy of our air permit um and our and our operating hours that were included in the air permit which was also open public comment so um you know we can we can put that together and I'd prefer just to put that in the table and give it to you I'm I'm not prepared right now to Just Wing a number at you and then someone throw it back at me that's okay I I didn't know we were going to talk about the air permit tonight so fair yes sir Kevin Smith um one question I have for you is uh 7 to9 it's it's for you 7 to9 is that plant at full operating temperature the whole plant as if it was you would run a full days production claudo I mean the plan claudo the pl we we've get the temperature on that plant tuned right up I am I am the operator so I do everything try to help everybody so what I do I when I start my my plan I have to raise the Heat and then lower the heat and it stays steady we do have graphs that the line is straight when that means the line is straight when they ask me for 2 290 that line is straight we have graphs so uh there is days that's rain so you struggle with with the heat so you want to maintain but once the plant is nice and steady it stays steady it doesn't so ites it's not in a it's not something that you you run High run roll you want to when I make mix I make mix try to make as much as I can shut the plant down so like that we don't have okay no problems that's a consistency that's consistency so like that we don't throw away no mix we don't throw no away no fou no no orders and that's the way we do we make as much as we can just to do our jobs make a little bit for the next day and we shut the plant up so when he me when Claudio fires the plant up in the morning 7:00 the that burner and the temperature of that plant gets up gets is up 10 to 15 minutes later he's at high heat and then like he said it's all about consistency so he fires the plant up without material running through it he gets that plant temperature up gets the everything hot the bag house warms up right everything's clean then he brings it back down and the goal is to maintain a steady kind of like fuel efficiency a car we want to run it nice and steady and claudo does a great job of managing that and managing fuel burn and and then temperature of the hot mix being produced in that 280 290 range um and the other component that's really a big factor in our industry is moisture so when we get these three or 4 in Gully washers like we got the other day with the thunderstorms that rolled through moisture has a a adverse impact on making hot mix because it just means longer drying time it's less efficient cuz we need to dry that aggregate um because if we don't dry the aggregate then there's no absorption of the liquid asphalt right so he he'll turn it down so on a rainy day or when he's seeing Optimum moistures in excess of say 6 7 8% he's turning our tons per hour actually drops we we kind of use as a rule of thumb um we're going to reduce the potential capacity of production by 15% for every inch of rain right so if we think we can run at 300 tons per hour steady but we get an inch of rain overnight his he really is going to be down around 280 something like that and that's going to be what he can consistently produce hot mix out at and we can load our silos and then load that's where I was kind of going cuz you if you start out at 7:43 your plant is cold and then you going into 9 your 2hour window where is the you know where is the plan at that so it doesn't you're telling me it doesn't take that long get the fulls and the mo and actually the biggest environmental factor is weather right so Wayne we had a fair amount of rain in May so he has to he's running the plant at a slower level because it takes longer to dry the material um and if we push P the plant to do more we just have a quality issue and we're going to we're going to have a product of poor quality thank you Claudia I I just one thing to add too that I think might go to some of the questions that just been asked here um I don't have the exact numbers off the top of my head you could certainly provide them if your board wants but May 22nd uh which was one of the days that Alliance was on site uh did it happen to be one of the highest days of production and sales that Keating has had um in this past month uh and as you can see you know the the odors as measured by Alliance were extremely low that day there were no complaints received at all that day um it just goes back to my point earlier that amount of production amount of sales doesn't necessarily correlate to odor issues but isn't do good I have call question the 15 is not a good order because it's not than two by far but that's but that goes so the that's at the property line and we have houses near the property line yeah that that's I should have probably provided a map um it was as far as we could get towards the property line so I believe the winds that day this would have been more towards the north so we're up around the uh concrete plant yep so for Access and safety we went as far as we could and then we went into the community after that bring a rock and I'm really just talking about what's your out into into yes on May 9th from 10:38 to 11:38 17 ascal trucks went that way in 19 went that way full in an hour I'm not sure what that means but that's I have no idea honestly I don't I don't have any idea even with tra even with traffic do we know what like 30 36 trucks in a in an hour is that not to mention the rest of the traffic is 36 trucks an hour no umly that's I don't know 36 I'm just going to say 36 * 23 would be 888 28 tons so that would be normal to less than normal I mean again going back to what we're permitted to do and what we've done historically there um you know that you know that's not a you know that's not a unreasonable amount of truck traffic um leaving the facility and that's at 30% yeah I don't know where you're getting that number sir but again if you want to provide the documentation that shows that the plan is running at 30% that's what the Mana were your words I believe that you quoted I didn't I didn't say 30% I said that we've had several days over 2,000 tons right and we said we just said we and I said that in a 10hour operating window at 400 tons per hour that's 4,000 tons let's just keep I'm bad at this but let's keep the questions flowing through me to keep it civil are there any other questions before they they move on yes Aaron pad um I have a question talking about water environment moisture we are on a river river is constant we're on a peninsula we are surrounded by water we have five water sheds connected to this so Community there are five of us all connected that is everyday all day long nature providing water and water and water the good Stu we're not talking rain we're talking moisture in the air moisture in the soil so it is affecting your PL so you could have a day where you're not operating but there are things going on in the environment that are you have piles of silk and you brag about recycling you have materials just sitting there rotting in the hot sun with the moisture which absorbs these Otis and then we have the wind that carries things you can go on and on that we not running today uh that was a neighbor running a truck I have video Etc the point is you have so many violations and so many factors going on in that plant that are causing Otis other than you operating so you need to accept that responsibility you need to cap things off as you should so that the elements don't carry these odors and the dust throughout the town and this is what I've been saying forever it's like you can't just say oh it rained today so that's why you smelt something it it's it's we're surrounded by water it's nature we're surrounded by water there's no way that this that environment is not affecting your plan and causing other a problem so you need to protect those against those factors so that's what I have come here to ask you to do I would uh say in response to that Mr chair that uh the alliance report that was produced from the data GA gathered last year which has been provided to the town so it's a publicly available document and L correct me if I'm wrong but does identify the various sources over sources that have been looked at and I would anticipate that ultimately the data gathered for this year would be in a report that's going to reflect the same thing so just responding to at least the piece of your comment there about sort of multiple sources that is something that's fact Mr let me yes I think ultimately what the town needs to decide is how much exposure are these residents going to be yeah on a daily basis how many hours of it are we going to have to endure day after day after day it's how how long have we been kicking this can down the road it's it's nothing has changed we F complaint on Friday I don't just frivolously file a complaint but when I can't sit on the deck and have a cup of coffee cuz I got to eat your crap I have a problem and isn't going to stop and I'm not going to stop when I have to close the window go in the house because it stinks that bad I mean how much it how much of that are we going to have to endure is is how long are we going to kick this can down the road and it goes for the other boards in town as well how many hours a day do we have to endure this you think we have nothing better to do this group you think this group has nothing better to do than sit here and and and try to fight for our lives this is homes I'm not an asphalt plant you could put all the you can put all the lipstick on a pig man it's still a pig sheez this is ridiculous D yes I'm sorry one time we to sleep um two things you were talking about less than 2% or you could still smell it hi is that considered to be acceptable oh it's not a percentage it's a it's whatever whatevering it yeah you're quantifying it but I'm you're saying it's non detectable but you can smell it it would be it would be described as a a barely perceptible OD at L so that's supposedly considered to be acceptable I can't speak whether I'm just I'm just saying just because it doesn't register on the scale doesn't mean that it's not I I tend to agree with you that I found it odd that he said it smells but then you put this thing on you and it doesn't register to me it doesn't matter if it smells it smells if a human being can smell it that's correct to me I mean that's I wouldn't want to smell it if I made back in right didn't you a when back in the summer of 2022 when we were in report the assistant Health agent was using this exact same scale and methodology to argue and establish to the board satisfaction that these were nuisance odor conditions that is what the quantification was intended to do to put a number to it because as Lou said earlier odor is really subjective and this is a way to quantify it to to put a number on it to understand objectively how bad is it really we some people smell it some people maybe have a terrible sense of smell don't smell it at all this is a way to just give us objective data put a number to it um we determine two maybe two should be zero well two is so these are either below two or 0.5 I mean well it's yeah just to explain so we don't we don't know right we are smelling something it's not registering at at a two which is the lowest detection on the device so that's why we call it less than two we're not saying it's a non- detect can you turn the device and make it so that the lowest orifice is a two that'll make one less no okay two is an owner two is the Yoda that we smell it that's the problem that's the issue I can smell it I go up and down the street all the time I I can't disagree with these neighbor but you smell a trash truck yeah I smell it when you were excuse me 10 hours a day you Coury operting there was no that's my point no you weren't operating and now you're operating and that's why we're doing that's why we're here so the there there's definitely there's an issue there's an odor I smell it I mean yeah you smell the trash truck you smell everything but you didn't smell asphalt until you open and now we smell it so I mean when I look at the reports um that were submitted going back to last call and this is only from a snapshot in time that they were there you know when you read when you go through the numbers 460 1150 not determined I'm not sure what that means 7 100 427 there's almost no times that there's no over unless that that's what not determin so not determined means is non detect yeah you can't even as as an individual not your machine correct you call it the raw or naked then you go to the next page you got 4 four2 less than two for that still smells 472 you know the the list shows a lot of ERS the next one 60 7 15 100 100 7 4 2 less than two but that's still an order four and we had three non-determined on that list Z is an industrial site on my house a list um I I I I don't know if this list is supposed to be impressive but seven four less than two that's an old less than two that's an order 15 not determined less than two not determined less than two two two and the list goes on and on I mean it's there were a couple good days I guess the next one 30 100 30 30 just clarify each of the locations is tied to a location right so some of those are some of those readings are taken onsite and some of those were at property boundary or offsite well all I'm looking at as a list I I don't see the difference unless like S I got to spend hours studying the map and looking at it um to me what's important is at all these home sites yeah and that's you know this call there right I mean that that's I I understand precisely what you're saying and from our perspective I think you tend to look at it the same way it's not what's smell on heating's property at the facility it's what's once you get to the property bers you want zero on the property um and I think what these numbers are showing are I understand your point that less than two is you could smell something but in terms of this board's consideration of is this a nuisance that number tells us that the answer is no I'm going to tell you quite frankly I don't think anybody should have to smell anything when I look at the map and I look at where you detecting and I and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to take that plant move it all the way to the back and then I don't see any houses around mine I mean we talked about that four years ago didn't we mine it's quite obvious to me what needs to happen but keep going through this but I don't you guys need to get it down to zero move the plant to the back get it over with going to happen I have one other issue yes okay I'm sorry the hours the hours of operation if I'm understanding are like early in the morning till whatever but at 2:00 Monday morning I had to shut my windows it was hanging in the air there was no wind that day but it was hanging in the air it smelled so bad you could hear it running what's it doing at 2:00 in the morning running I want to know that do you that was huh yeah it was Monday morning this past Monday the 3D right 1:30 2:00 in the morning holid I had to shut the window it was making me 1:30 a.m. Rob Robinson BP of Aggregates for keing PJ keing there was nothing running on that day and I checked our cameras we have cameras around that site just to make sure there was nobody on site so in answer to that question that's it it was a paid holiday for the employees they all got 3 days off we we left the facility probably three or no later than 4:00 on Friday and they didn't return till Tuesday morning so Tuesday Morning um Tuesday I'm sorry Monday into Tuesday having a time okay my house is the closest to cor okay I've lived here for 33 years and I'm telling you the smell is awful I cannot open my windows I've had to shut them I've tried to sleep like she said with the windows open and you can smell it throughout the night whether they open or whatever I can still smell it whether they're open or not are there storen materials that would emit odors in the middle of the night overnight course well yeah I mean there's liquid asphalt there's diesel on site um but again the uh the system should should capture that and if we're not if we're not loading the the tanks right we're not pushing anything out so they're just they're we keep temperature on the on the liquid but we're not changing the there's not a significant change in temperature in the asphalt tank cuz we're not bringing a new product it's just so over a weekend it's just it's circulating but be di Minimus so so there is so it's possible that there's oders coming through at night time people have their windows open because beautiful out like tonight it's possible that there's odors coming out of the plant that you can smell through your window is that what I'm I'm here the complaint I think from at least the most recent one I saw was the smell of burning rubber which would not be he no no there's a there there's a resident testifying here that they more than one they can smell holders at night time with their windows open I would call that valid a valid complaint now in front of you that I'm hearing not through not everybody knows how to I would know how to put a complaint through the port you know not everybody is Savvy like that and some people don't want the attention don't want to put their complaints in you know I mean people don't want to be bothered they don't want they don't want any bullseye on their back you know so they don't be honest with you my my husband will not come because he hasn't want any bull eyes on his behal so he won't come to these meetings because of this you know he doesn't want any Bullseye you know on his back so I'm asking is can you get gentlemen look into you close the asphalt plant down can somebody uh you know check out around the neighborhood in the middle of the night like these folks are saying that they're we can't ignore it just because you shut it off if you have potential pollutants coming off the property you know people should be able to open their windows at night the winter we don't but this time of the year we do that's what we live for is that too much to ask you to look into we'll look into it okay I just some blank stairs looking at me like I'm anybody else that's a question I'm a resident also and I also work for um I was in the plant today I don't usually working there because I've lost my jaw because being shut down before you Douglas for that 52 pen Brook app dep one know but are you telling me there's been no the benefit to anything we've done cuz I worked in there today and I worked in the back of the asphalt plant out back and it's 100% different the the quality there's no odor on the grounds at all and I'm not in there every day so I'm not subject to it and got used to it I'm amazed actually of what they've done there and you sound like there's been no benefit at all from any of you you're saying it's just as bad as three years ago four years ago you're going to tell me that it can't be not with what they've done it's impossible it's just your Viewpoint hasn't changed Friday I had to close the windows and I couldn't sit outside next door to I can th a rock onto the prop you just asked you just asked question I'm answering your question answer I don't want it I don't want to eat the crap period Well I think uh you're smelling something you've been wanting to smell for a long oh wow could you please tell me when you change from the masking agent to the suppressant so it's just it's just happening essentially so really I think the the suppress I think was received last week and it's just coming into use now essentially so that's I think one of the things we're going to be really looking at here in the next 30 days is how that suppress agent Works can I also ask how far out in the community have you gone to check orders when you do your work um we don't have a a finite radius uh that we're hitting at the moment but when we're when we are going downwind if we get to the point where we're um a few streets you know let's say the winds are out of the North and we're in the South uh the neighborhood to the South we will keep going until we don't detect any odors so if we're getting no odors um and there's there's little to no odors at the property boundary and we're working our way downwind and we're not detecting anything we won't just keep going um but if we do get odors we do keep going until we don't detect those odors anymore to try to get the extent of them can I have a cardinal direction not Street straight North this north north south so we've done we those direct uh the neighborhoods to the North and South um there have last year there was a couple one condition specifically I remember they were easterly winds so we were focusing more on the the properties to the west of the site um yeah but again I I I can look up the the distances and and do some measurements with the satellite imagery no no no we're coming out once a week regardless it just happens to be done on a couple of those times there have been complaints that have come in during that time so we're able to is it okay if I speak to him yes okay I've made two complaints last I've lived in a kushit for 7even years never had a problem with the plant because where I am it's never traveled the smell is never traveled uh this year it's traveled so I've made two complaints because how will you know if something's not wrong you know if something's wrong unless you make a complaint so I've made the complaints I was very happy with the man that came out and spoke with me he explained things he was really good um I haven't smelled it in the past week that's why I wanted to know cuz you mentioned you've made change one week so the whole of all last week I have not smelled anything up in my area where I live I can't vouch for these people I don't live in this area where do you live I live out past near Dunkin Donuts D okay okay so and I haven't so I mean I don't know if that's working I don't know how the winds are I don't know any of that stuff that's not my job to know that but I haven't really smelled it that bad I haven't smelled it at all and the man that came out his name was Rick it was your I not you way I thought it was you okay I'm sorry but um I just it's not that bad and this plant the Tilcon it was waren Brothers it was Tilcon and now it's keing they've been in you guys have been in operation for a long time and they're not going to shut down there's no reason for them to shut down but if you could just make it old better it would make everyone happy and I can't vouch for these people I don't know what they go through and if they're going through it sounds like they're going through a walk but if you could pacify them and make them feel better then that would be solution to the problem so I mean this is a hostile environment right now and it's sad it's it's really sad but closing down this plant it's not an option I owned an asphalt paving company it was very convenient to have that uh plant there because it saved on trucking it saved on fuel it just saved on employee wages I mean it was a good thing to have here and you guys showed a presentation of what you've done for the town so if you can just pacifi these orders and just excuse me you should have been here when they told us to all go pound sand and they ended up everything in court you've only been here for 7 years I've been here for 42 most of these people have been here for 30 plus years dealing with this and they've said right along we'll do what we want we're zoned industrial because they were given they were given everything by a group of s please she was trying to speak yeah right yeah just to kiss your butts that's I'm not kissing anyone's yes you are no I'm not sir I am here because all right we're going to we're going to shut down the meeting and we don't if we don't get civilized you can't put people out of jobs that's the horrible thing does anybody have any more questions I do yes i' I'd like to address the board yes that's okay question um do we still have am mon this uh the um we are operating as a cushion it Board of Health supposed not then are they in the vicinity chill you what the city of New just got a grant from the EPA they got 20 air monitors over there the city of because they're concerned about the Health and Welfare of their residents and they want to improve the atmosphere you have no no was just for a brief that's not the point we had at one particular time we have a baseline that had been done this was I forget exactly we still have no they would have to come back out again so we don't have access to any air monitoring right now no it's not we don't have access it was based on the it was based on the dust no I realize it's particular yeah but obviously the asalt plan creates particulate and VOC as well right doesn't the air monitors pick up on Doc as well supp not not I mean not like it we no not like not like it would with the dust okay I mean that's all filters I mean we have an expert right here in the in the in the front yacht of this of this facility would be we we did but continuously just just kind of back up what everyone is again we said and that that's absolutely the board Pledger we started that back when all of this began which was dust it was based on Dust it had nothing to do with the odor or the asphalt plant at that point in time and we put that Baseline in place but I think we need to go back to some scientific uh data to back up because no one seems to believe anyone about anything I don't think they don't do anything wrong we're a bunch of babies I mean it just goes back and forth I get I I just scientific data right I mean the air monitoring will produce anything that has to do with the odor it's not it it was again what about an industrial hygienist you know I I you know I I appreciate Alliance I'm not familiar with Alliance I've done a lot of uh of uh testing over the years exposure air testing and so forth and you know what it never failed in the 40 years I was working must never failed everything always passed it was miraculous we never did anything wrong okay we need independent some independent testing I think to back up our claims it's all I'm trying to say no do do you not agree I maybe I'm don't age the board nobody the board understandable but I I would appreciate if that could be taken into consideration because I think scientific data is hard to you know deny are there any can I ask you a question yeah you I'm sorry I for are there air monitors available that would detect odors particular matter that could be placed around the facility there's not really that's why we go out and we we either take bag samples and send them off to a lab for a panel analysis um or use the field oldometer you can measure for volatiles you could measure for dust but you're not measuring odors in that regard nothing on the market look into putting out there not that I know of okay not not for odors specifically okay you you would have to know um you know what you're looking to measure you could measure different confidence but not odors thank you anybody else Mr uh thank you I think we're just about done with our presentation certainly bringing Alliance on board providing scientific data that's the whole point that's exactly what we're trying to do we understand that this is an issue folks are very passionate about and that's exactly why we thought Plus have Alliance come in and just put objective numbers to these things give us that scientific data um to that point there were some comments made earlier about wind directions keting does have air monitors around the site which do measure air uh wind directions at the property so that's what Lou was mentioning earlier they're able to base their uh their visits and where they're going upwind downwind not just on sort of a more generic reading from the local airport but it's actually site specific right here um and it allows us to compile different types of information so just like for example uh on this day a complaint came in you can see the arrow up there the wind's flowing down in the other direction that gives us a really good signal okay this odor almost certainly coming from somewhere else and now we can investigate that other times obviously the readings look different but that's just another example of objective scientific type data meteorological data that King's compiling and considering as we're moving along here um and then looking ahead here between now and the next meeting with the Board of Health in early July what further actions are planned uh as we've talked about a little bit here tonight keing has ordered this HMA odor suppressant uh which is an additive so the idea is to use that in place of the masking agents that have been used um and we'll see how that works it's as I said earlier it's just coming into use now essentially so um we'll see we'll see that'll be I think an interesting uh piece of information for us here over the next month or so um EXC Mr chairman can I ask a question so they developed a suppressor so how do they develop a suppressant without knowing what the odor is you know we're saying okay we don't have anything that mon is odor it has to be something well they know monitor own they know what so they know what's going into the mix they're doing it yeah so I could talk to that so we supplied um ecosorb with the primary manufacturer of the liquid asphalt we get and in many cases it comes from New Brunswick from Irving and they bring it to our terminal so we provided them and they took that to their labs and they cook it and then they they Ed different molecules to to try to identify what was the most effective so the ecosur has a you know why range of products some are masking agents like they have a cherry and a pine and it's a masking agent right versus a suppressant so um they worked over the winter months and still were you know triing this so they're looking for feedback from us now as we as we introduce it so we're introducing the LI the ecosorb product at the terminal right so it it's getting um loaded into the uh tankers and then the liquid asphalt is dropped in it's Blended there um it comes to our facility is pumped off and it's Blended again and remix so we're you know we're we're experimenting with it we're experimenting with dosage rates um because you know in the lab it's a very controlled environment um and that's where they developed the product right so we're now bringing it out into the real world and we have other external factors you know I mean when they develop it it's under a hood and a cont you know now we're now we're dealing with the elements ments of of of an asphalt plant you know um in the environment so we continue we're going to continue to work on it um but initially we're optimistic that working with ecosorb providing them feedback you know the best batch of chocolate chip cookies probably comes from Grandma cuz she's made them the most right so she mixes and checks we need to do the same thing so we're we're starting at a dosage rate that they thought worked in the lab we'll test that out we'll then move it up we don't want to change too many things at once because then we won't know what worked right so we'll we'll identify a process and we'll we'll introduce it and we'll test it and then we'll and if we think that we need to change it again like maybe we add more to the dosage you know the team will make the decision okay we're going to add more to the more product to the tank and see what that does or you know back whatever ever it might be but we don't want to change too many things at the same time because then we won't be able to identify that this was the thing that made it better right so you know using Crisco versus uh local Dairy Farm butter for your chocolate chick cookies if you if you if you don't try it one in one you're not going to know which was better right if you just mix the Crisco and the butter together you know the kids are going to eat them but you may not be as happy as grandma right so we're we're we're really no different with what we're trying to do at the asphalt plant with the suppressant working with the manufacturer we'll we'll make small changes but we're going to make them consistently so that we can identify if it's good or bad right because if it's bad we're going to stop but we're going to know that but if we do we try to change three things at once and we think it works we don't really know what worked right so that's that's the process of where we are so we're we're kind of working through the suppressant right now and we'll get a we you know we'll get a week into it next week and and kind of see where we are plus we had to drain those tanks down because the product was not the same right so we're I think this week we'll we should be at that point mixing this week that that tank is 100% the ecosorb suppressant and we'll you know and we'll have a doseage rate recommended by them that we'll we'll start off we're starting with what happens to that material that you drain down it's consumed in the assphalt right so you think about that liquid asphalt right that tank the tanks the trucks come in they fill those vertical tanks up and then when claudo is making hot mix each day he's putting about four and a call it 4 and A2 or 5% liquid asphalt into a load of hot mix right so you know during a day if we do 2,000 tons and his liquid percentage he's he's consuming you know four 4% let's just use that's an easy number right we can we can take that 4% % of the hot mix has liquid Asphalt in it so that tank is draining down that percentage point so you know we can drain a tank in in sir is there an MSDS sheet available with that being in the hot mix asphalt yep we can provide that happy too so I'll put that on my L will be available through the board yes I'll bring that we'll we'll bring that and provide that information next week along with some of the productivity and air permit information we discuss today so I'll bring that I just put my notes together so okay thank you um we've been going through this B for since 2017 when it was brought before us and this been now two times that gone before court and two season toist how many more Seas de we go through before we can start smelling this that's my question do we have to keep planning and mixing this into the tank and mixing that oh well it don't smell today oh it smells tomorrow a little bit more a little bit less I'm hesitant to answer your question um that's why we have town councel here I don't want to we are is still in litigation we are still being sued personally we're being sued as a board of health there are still I don't know if there's 10 or 11 members prior members of Prior employees of the town as well as current people that are still being sued so I I I I'm going to have to reserve from not answering not going to answer that sorry my question is if you're all being sued and can't speak for us who's fighting for us if you gentleman cannot fight for us because little litigation who's going to fight for us no back for entertain us once a month well I'd like to say I'd like to thank that we've made change um they've made a lot of changes in direct response to our actions as a board um I welcome you to come to take my seat I don't I don't this is an enjoyable position to be in because if I take your seat they're going to sue me too so I'm not ignorant I'm I'm extremely intelligent I understand the position that you're in but what I'm saying is this is just new how much longer do we have to go to hold us off so that they can do been going on for years already tough question to answer and you know I like Tom's you know comment about why can't it beul to that and get it over with you know that was my that was motion way back but that's that hasn't happened that's why we're in court right somebody has to protect the safety and wellbeing of the residents that's what I'm saying believe me we have tried to do that almost have our hands counil at that point so what are you going to do for us sir um within your legal limit what what will you do for answer is as far as you want to so there's been numerous core cases the Superior Court the appeals court uh there's currently pending cases the reason why PJ keing is here today um is that there was a temporary agreement as as Mr leier said between the Board of Health and PJ keting for 90 days to allow the plant to operate so that in hopes of identifying the issue or making those necessary changes um to Abate the odor um so at the end of 90 days the board and PJ keing and Council for all people are going to get together again and see is this working is this not working what further steps can we take but we have numerous coure cases we have an opinion out of the appeals court that found that upheld the board's nuisance order uh where where the town is putting its best effort into addressing the problem it's it's not a simple fix there's a lot of different um there's a lot of different interests involved here both residents and business and abutters and all that stuff so uh if if there was a a magical solution solution to get it fixed for everyone I think the whole board would take that U but this is what we have right now is this temporary agreement it's for 90 days PJ creting agreed to come two more meetings and then the board can reassess um at that time and so the hope is that PJ keing can continue making those adjustments to address the concerns well my concern is that they're going to continue to operate and do as they see p while 90 days for us is our entire summer with our children our grandchildren our neighbors uh putting the children on the buses is my car with the windows open and the air conditioner on in Winter because it stinks and I'm like I don't want to get out of the car and walk literally one block to the bus because it smells so bad I mean these kids have to put up with this they're in their rooms on their tablet because it stinks outside I don't think that's fair and I mean and Elders who want to sit on their porch with a cup of coffee they're trapped in their houses all winter long and they want to come outside and and none of us can do this you know what I mean and it's like they they're running and they're having a good old time and we're all sitting with our Windows CL and our air conditioning is running until November because it stinks until they're closed down for wind so we're paying extra money for our air condition is to purify our air because we can't enjoy our backyards so so once again we're waiting 90 days is an entire season for us and we're all stuck inside think somebody will be held responsible for loss of use maybe some tax abatements or to go down because we should all get a tax credit because we can't enjoy our property that we're pay taxes on so we going to get a break and not tax and you should be able go to the and that doca all the day it's pH loss of about property the uh council's answered the question are there any other questions any other comments from anybody in the room I have can the plant be moved back is that an option yep that's an option that was an option way back in the day that is still an option that's what we're working to try to have happen Okay that's what I want to see happen it was in the back they moved it that was in the back it was in the back but there are still people in the back that are suffering move to the they need to blast that area that's why exactly but they were still hurting other people on the back of the prop we still want to move to the back you want to suiz the right now we have to deal with the court we have to deal with PJ keing we have to this isn't an easy there's no easy fix as he said I can't elaborate on everything because I'm quot as it is why W the residents um notified of the last me with the agreement that you all decided to have and [Music] day I'll let her question is why wasn't the public notified of of the agreement yeah the the trial the we weren't allowed to vote on that it's it's a decision that that's a decision because the board and the members are named as as parties that's that was there uh the court was looking for them to make the decision it wasn't a town meeting Vote or anything like that why wen't we notified yeah why won't we not well in general when there's litigation it's taken under um executive session because it's litigation we can't discuss strategy with about litigation in the open public so they strung on my next question is why could the on the 12th when it was fin to be a nuisance Place why it continue why did it have to be okay we're going to you know give you a try and Run start May 1 uh like I said it's a it's a ter temporary agreement the the board can at the end of so now we're 30 days in so in 60 more days could make a decision and say we're not going to renew this temporary agreement and continue to seek to enforce the c synesis or they could decide that P eating or the suppressants that they're using or anything like that are are making steps and we could come to some sort of alternative agreement um it's it's a matter of the board gets to choose as a policy matter matter in the town gets to choose um uh from a litigating perspective on how best to prosecute the case and it's really fact dependent on what's going on on that day or in that week um it depends on what's going on Mr Jim yes you have an opportunity to speak before you adjourn so a lot of the points that are being taken up tonight is being addressed um through different dialogue with Town Council soil board and Board of Health um I wouldn't ask too much of the new suppressant that they're asking for it is a suppressant but the last thing we want them to do is add a suppressant that smells like bubblegum too much and everybody's complaining about the smell of bubble gum now right there's people that complain about living around Burger King The Yoda stinks until midnight and things that the like it it really doesn't matter what the odor is I live near a farm wh Farm my entire life with calure piles and I had to deal with it cuz it was a right to farm right it's a farm to a degree no matter what we the town would do in our relationship with PJ Keeny whether it is moving the asphalt playing our back or how great the suppressant could work you will always smell odor of asphalt because it is an asphalt plant and that's what it does right you're never going to get away from 100% of that smell what I think the Board of Health and the the board of Selectmen and town council's done with PJ keing with letting them operators they've made modifications to that asphal plant and without the town give them an opportunity to try to prove that those modifications are going to work or or work better and is satisfactory to the town how do they ever prove that to the town that's why they' be given this opportunities to continue making modifications as they've done they've made large number of investments in that fac facility they're putting in a new suppress they're trying to do their best to rid us of that Oda not saying it's going to work but they're trying and we have to provide them an opportunity to at least prove that it's either going to work or it's going to fail we have that obligation as a town with the litigation we have going on and I believe that's what the Board of Health has done I believe that's what the board of selectman have done by providing them that opportunity with a 90day stay I I don't know if everyone you know I see a few faces that I recognize as residents and I see a lot of faces that I recognize as PJ keing folks in the room um I I can tell you this right now I think we're sadly mistaken if we really think 100% of the asphalt odas are going away right it's not going to happen they've been producing asphalt Outback I'll give them that for 135 years 150 years and we all learned how to live with that little bit of odor right can we get to that with the asphalt plant being out front I don't know that's for them to prove to us right um that's dialogue that we're having with PJ Keeny um as we go through this process that's all I can say I I commend the Board of Health um Mr Ford and Mr Deion for their efforts in trying to work to the best with council with PJ heting to allow them to operate and bringing them in every 30 days for questions and answering complaints that's what that process was designed to do that's exactly what the Board of Health members Mr for Elise and Mr D Vineyard are doing right now so I commend them for them efforts and we're going to continue working with PJ keing to try to resolve the issue that's the best that we can do as a town right I mean we got millions of dollars of lawsuits we're trying to resolve the problem and work and become a partner with PJ King and and not be fighting with them every time costing taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars because that's where the Bill's at right now I'll tell you right now that Bill is over half a million dollars right it's money well spent thus far but there sooner or later we got to figure this out so that we're not continuing to spend and I don't think PJ keing even though his attorney sitting there and Town's attorney sitting there is saying keep feeding me that money right I don't think PJ Keeny Mr the hell sitting here going yeah I I really want to give my to my Council another million dollars to litigate this with the town of aush it's in both of our interests to figure this out and how we're going to coexist as I've said before get the Playbook and that's how we're going to operate and there might be a dozen people that don't like it I don't know if I'm ever going to make a dozen people 100% s satisfied but as long as the majority of the people in the community are satisfied I think that's what matters and you know for the other 12 15 20 whatever it may be that just wants to be constant and never be good enough whatever PJ Keening does it's sad but it's it's going to be the way of life I'm sorry to say it which try was coming after us thank you for your comments Gasper does anybody else have anything final to say before I adjourn the meeting no thank I'll entertain a motion to adj motion to adjourn I'll second the motion all in favor I motion carries [Music] oh [Music]