[Music] it is 6:30 March 26th I'd like to call to order the meeting of the zoning board of appeals motion open second all in favor okay so moved we're in business the uh first order of business this evening is to approve the minutes from February 20th as everybody had a chance to look is there a motion make a motion that we accept the minut as read second a motion in a second all in favor so moved um no meeting mail nothing no there are cases though that came in new cases okay so we will be having another meeting next month um no appointments old business we're going to jump right back into new business and uh the first thing is the case uh it's a continuance it's case number 2024 0220 B continuance of the the case of Justin Lawrence of 23 bir Street petitioning the board for variants to construct a single family dwelling on Lambeth Street assesses plat 18 blot 4G this request is being made under the provisions of section 331 e looks like Mr Deion's ready to speak on behalf of yes Mr chairman and board members uh for the record I'm davean from schne Leone I'm here to pick up where my partner Matt Leone uh left off at the last meeting um the plan that he presented has not changed as far as U what is being proposed in the board to the board which is a variance um for Upland area for build of a lot The Proposal in general um consists of modifying an existing lot that exist today by adding a piece to the east to bring that lot up to 60,000 ft which would meet current uh area requirements the proposal to create Frontage uh or additional Frontage which is required under the bylaws now we need 150 ft of Frontage is to create this uh Hammerhead type Road layout and uh part of that proposal would be to build out Lambert Street to that that Hammerhead uh through a planning board process so we would have a lot that would meet once we go through the next steps a lot that would meet the frontage and total area requirements of 6,50 Ft of Frontage but we would be short on the uh Upland area um I think we have uh slightly over 30,000 proposed I know and I realized that I watched the tape so I realized you know there were some concerns particularly from the director butter that came up which were legitimate concerns um I have a set of plans i' like to pass out if I may approach please I'm going to give you an area which just helps to understand the entire neighborhood where this is situated it's not exactly clear as day but the uh lck that we're proposing is outlined in red as as well as the additional clearing and I'm going to give you what we've developed which are uh what I would call a topographical Contour plan for the road construction drainage the 20 scale drver so it's relatively easy to follow I have a highlighted version up on the board which I will go through so what this plan shows is the proposed construction of a 20ft wide Gravel Road beginning at the intersection of St Lawrence and Lambert Street where the uh The Hairpin turn is 90° turn the roadway would be built the proposed Gravel Road travelway would be built within the existing Road layout and when we get to the lot we'd have a hammerhead for a fire truck to be able to turn around um the road would be super elevated so that so the highest spot is on the west side and everything would tilt to the east side and what you see here in green is a drainage SWA um which you see in the cross-section down here the base would be 4 ft it'd be side slopes at 2 to one a burm on the east side of that so we're creating this large uh drainage swell which would take all the water off the road and the RO the the swell would pitch from its Noth spot here and and discharge on on our site uh adjacent to the wetlands down here um I know there was a question a concern well what if what if things change and this lot becomes smaller we're we're proposing the Wetland replication area on this parcel here which is also owned by the same family um and that will uh mitigate for the Wetland that needs to be crossed in this location here and then there's a small area right here so what's proposed for uping area will not change um should it change obviously the variance is null and void uh we realize we have to go to conservation um we realize we have to go to planning um we're asking for the board to approve the variance this evening because it it it logically from a permitting perspective I'm an engineer it makes no sense to do all the steps and spend a lot of money just to come back to the board and get denied at the end I I had a month to to think about it and go over it David and I agree with you on that end so if you could just I I have it in this pile of paperwork somewhere but I want it to be clear on the variants if the board decides to issue it what is the Upland you're going to give us I know 30,000 is required and you're only shot a little bit well 40,000 is the re 40,000 60 and 40 6040 and we're taking uh land from this um site over here in order to get to 61,500 plus right uh the upload area will be 30, 56 3,56 yes and the well in Era in 31,000 obviously um so it's a it's a 50/50 proposition when you look at the neighborhood I brought a copy of the assessor map um primarily most Lots in in this area range from 10,000 to 20,000 this lot did comply with the lot area requirements when it was developed and I also have that plan with me I'm I'm going to just butt in for one more second to say again we've had a month um I did research it so that our board knows not only did it uh was it a existing law and did comply when it was created it's been they've been paying taxes on a buildable lot the entire time through uh and I think our board's decision is only to look at the 30,000 ft Upland and see if you'll give that variance from 40 to the 30 and again I looked at all the Lots in the area they're all 10 to 20 so even if it was only a 30,000 ft lot with 30,000 ft Upland it it probably would be okay it'd be grandfather except for they have the family owns other land in the area and that's what's messing them up but they've voluntarily surrendered land on another pel to get it to the 60 so that's stuff I've looked at all the way around I think I don't think the variance from the 30 to 40 is a a big deal and you know I'd like to see us move forward one way or another with it um the issues we were looking at last week is this water I don't want to see the neighbors suffer with any kind of water consequences um but again in thinking about it for a whole month this does have to still go to conservation and they've got to accept his plan for where the water is going to go and the you know it's going to go through the the planning board as well to get them to accept the Hammerhead Road and that that's not what we're here for we're only here to say whether or not we believe the 30,000 ft is enough Uplands and considering that the average lot in the area is 10 to 20 it's my opinion that it is but I do want to give if when you're done everyone else a chance to speak I ask question so if we put this through we can put it through contingent upon conservation and and planning everything every we happen to have the building department here with us tonight so that's a bonus we usually don't but he'll tell you he he's even if we make this a buildable lot they can't build on it unless they get through conservation and all the other boards so unless conservation agrees that this new retention Pawn the water the SES everything that David's proposing is good they're not going to be able to build anyway but they're here because they can't move forward unless we agree to the Upland so they still have a lot of hurdles to cross we're just as David said there's no spense sense spending all the money doing the future engineering if we're going to say they can't build on it anyways so that's where we're at and I I just like to add that um an approval of the variant allows us just to move forward correct we can't apply they can't apply for a building permit building inspector would deny them because they have no Frontage they can only create the frontage by going to the planning board when they go to the planning board the planning board is going to say you need a conservation permit before we can sign off on anything so it's it's a ripple effect the only thing I'm concerned with David is where you have the drainage coming right by the house that's there I mean how that's not that far away how far away is up it what it's on the line typically a roadway will be centered on the layout this happens to be a 50 foot layout most layouts are 40 some are even less uh for instance this Parker Street which I'll say right now on record my my partner Matt Leone is a professional Lance of a he researched all of these and we have no rights to that street furthermore that's a 20ft layout how much you can do with a 20t layout this happens to be a 50ft layout typically the street would be centered 25 right from we offset it and moved it to the west side we're 10 ft off the West Side layout so that we can create that Swale I looked at it as whether we could do the opposite but I couldn't because I'd be putting a Swale in the wellons it's not really going to work um and I couldn't Crown it because then I need a soil on both sides so I went through all the scenarios as to how can I get the water and get it past this house and this is really the only Avenue that I could come up with at his driveway location right now the driveway comes through the layout and then cuts across we're going to put we're proposing to put a 20 foot wide a 20 foot long concrete apron off the gravel road to get him onto his property and to provide some cul so that there's continual flow through there sounds like it's actually got to take water and draw it away from his property yes nothing from our development will end up on his site if anything he'll he'll improve the area are you good can I ask the the audience if there's a bus who would like to speak on this please for the record my name is Jamar I represent Howard and uh Susan Allen um um they're at the uh property 50 lamber which is right here at the existing dwelling um I mean I I can get into all the reasons why you know a variant shouldn't be approved but I I I think the um I think what makes most sense here and it was brought up last week or last meeting um let's not see the the abat suffer here due to a a project um let's try to minimize the impacts right um if if the board is going to go forward and and issue a Vance um for the lack of Upland um I did talk with uh Dave dner today um and went through with him um the options of of coming in through Parker LA and Parker he did mention to me that um Matt Leone did go through and review the records and it's his opinion that that's not a possibility I'd like to look into it myself and see if I can come up with a legal opinion if that's a possibility however um we did also talk about the possibility of just extending the gravel drive which is 13 12T wide Dave probably one lane yeah okay yeah let say 10 which is the current access for my client's property um extend it down and and root it my clients would like to have it rooted on this side of the the road layout towards the western side then they would have you know be further away from their home further away from their property line um obviously this would need a another variance it would need a variance from Frontage because you're not going to have the 150 which uh Dave spoke about that they're creating by way of this this Hammerhead at the end um I think this would be an opportunity to try of resolve issues that the neighbors might have but also work through with getting this project through um I'm putting it out there to the board um I believe I I I don't disagree with you I think that a you know fine you're just extending the road that's there it is what it is but I think it's really that's when you get to the planning board the planning board is the one who's got to decide you know how they want that road and because they're looking after the fire department and you know police department and people trying to get in there and access and how you can turn around and all that stuff so you know that's why we invented all these culde saacs and this and everything else um tonight we're only looking at 30,000 ft of Upland versus 40,000 s Square ft of Upland required and I I get it I I don't want to cut you off it it's tough because you got to go through all you know conservation's got to say that they're okay with well we understand how you change it and everyone else does but they can't move forward and do anything if we say no and they can if we say yes but it still doesn't guarantee them they can do anything it can it can always come back here because at planning they say you know we're all about this but the neighbors would rather have this little small turnaround and you can come back for the frontage W with with neighbers and planning board on board you you know if they're on board with it then we don't mind it so much but I don't think we want to tell them oh you got to go through another variance another another thing another and then say Oh you know conservation's going to shoot this down anyways type of thing so well I I think conservation may look at this and say fine it's it's it's actually working uh it's it's more beneficial there's less impact to the resource areas here I mean they're already proposing um there's there's going to be filling in an area of wetland replication that we can work around y conservation may be more likely to approve a project that is just a uh continuation of the gravel drive I I absolutely agree with that that's why I just want to take up the point of the 30,000 versus 40 this evening and let the boards that planning Bo planning and conservation I you in my opinion the conservation is the most important part of this project a A can we move the storm water and the new water that we're going to create around and B does it work you know is all the flags you our board doesn't know that we don't we're not you know site Engineers like Mr de vinion we're looking at this and just saying does it suit the neighborhood to have a a house there versus the rest of the neighborhood and the rest of the neighborhood is 10 to 20,000 ft homes so it it's not out of the realm of the neighborhood is my opinion all the other stuff the water R it going to go the driveway the roads how it's going to be constructed I think belongs to a different department that's all I'm trying to say is I really believe that planning and conservation are the ones that are going to follow your direction and your your clients's direction and say they can do a little less because it's better for both the environment and the neighbor I get that and and my thought here is and a recommendation to the to the board is simply let's push this off a month let the let the applicant go back um if if the if the board can consider the idea of um a variance for the frontage let us go back let us put it on the plan where this Gravel drive would be and they'd be back here in a month but but then the planning board could just shoot that down no the the planning board tell me if I'm wrong things change if it's not the installation of a of an actual roadway and we're just extending the gravel drive what uh if I may yeah go ahead um when Jim and I talked today what we talked about was an entirely different concept okay instead of um more more is better in this case it's the opposite if the board I told him we we are not proposing this we're not opposed to it but we're not proposing this because we're not here to be greedy um and we don't want to look that way but if the board were to consider the uh variance for the frontage right now we have 50 ft of Frontage on a way that let me show you that was signed by the planning board I do have the plan from 1982 this is the sign plan that created the road the road layout so I think what we're talking about is as an alternative here if we went back to that plan which shows 50 ft of Frontage it'd be like a retreat lot mhm under a retreat lot if a variance was granted for the frontage this CAC this Hammerhead this area be swallowed up by the LW it actually reduce the variance that we're asking for now because that consist the 5,000 s ft that would actually the lot would now be what you see on paper there so the Upland area would be go up to 35,000 the variance request would be down to 5,000 instead of 10,000 with the road being a road Grant granted variance we wouldn't have to build this massive Road it would be viewed as a retreat lot and all we would simply have to do is pick up the road somewhere in this vicinity which is a driveway and continue the driveway to service this lot but you would need a ton of variances for the retreat lot because it's not 180,000 s ft you can't keep 75 fo setbacks all the it wouldn't it wouldn't be a variance for retreat lot it' be a variance for the frontage for a conventional lot from 150 to 50 correct and the UPL area will be short 5,000 those would be two variances once issued then we go to the planning with an anr plan not a subdivision plan and we would add this other piece to it to get the 60,000 the plan would state that we have a variance for the frontage so the billing inspector would see the plan court at the registry yep they have a variance they have a variance for the Upland area and this therefore it's a buildable lot we still have to go to conservation but we don't have to go to planning board planning board have no say because we're really just creating a lot without doing the subdivision because we do have a subdivision layout it's been on paper for 40 years that's the alternative we talked about and all of this elaborate stuff wouldn't have to happen it'd be a single driveway we would try best to keep it to the West that would be up to conservation as to how much Wetland they would let us fill and we're willing to replicate this would obviously be less this this whole thing would be less this would go away oh and by the way we are bringing Utilities in through an easement from cck street because we have family members around the entire parcel the only person that isn't a FES in some fashion is this parcel which Jim represents so we have access 150 ft across here we're on Street and they have they have walk n so we're bringing the utilities through here which makes the project even easier we even talked about possibly coming in with overhead electric or underground electric 3 here to one e covers everything okay um so it's something that's why I think Jim was trying to get out there it's something we're not opposed I'm not against it but it's not what you're proposing so I can't take a vote on it unless you you guys change what you want you'reall the one of course correct we we could we could proceed with the variance tonight but if the board would entertain it we would apply for that extra variance for the next a month from now and both parties would be agreeable to that we've we've discussed at length um today even so far as where that road where the driveway would go I suggested that his client go out and put the stakes where he'd like them to be we'll locate them and see if it's feasible and we'll work from there and try and come up with a plan to show the driveway access onto the lot so we're in agreement that far are there any other concerned parties besides both of you that want to speak just want to make sure we that's it I want to make one comment yeah why on just one I'm Howard Allen I'm theend the only thing as far as you're veering that that lane to the West the further to the West you Veer that the higher the ground is going to be in the dyer it's going to be I just want to make sure that we're aware of that the further to the east you go and the closer to our side you go the lower the ground will be and the wder it will be so what they're re suggesting would work the further to the West it is the better it will work and the less that they're going to impact those weap they obviously have to do it on the only point I want to make have to do it in the legal roadway get conservation to agre it will impact the wetlands less by going further to the west and if that's the case that would be well that's that's what they want to do was less impact cuz it's cheaper I mean that's easy it the scenario that we talked about as an alternative is is practical it makes sense and you know it's I don't you're you're representing your clients but I'd like to hear from your clients that they would like a continuance to my family's own all this property actually the property that Terry owns now was my sister's house um we paid taxes for over 50 years on this property we we have trouble with that revised plan that you are talking about is there room for the fire truck to still turn in there would they pass something like that the fire dep P that's what worries me it it sounds like if we approve it it it is what it is because you're not going to the planning board at this point that's correct it's like a retreat lot if you drive around town you see long driveways and they can build a house 1,600 ft off the road and it's a single uh driveway they're all over the place there really no different than that but this is only a a 300t stretch and we're on the property it really is it's not very long and what I'm going to say to Mr Fernandes is when you do do that and I when I was in the building department SE I tell these people all the time make sure them trucks can turn around in your driveway somewhere because you're going to want them there you know so that's that's on you and in your own property when you do that but it does eliminate having to have that big Hammerhead so that would save money definitely to do it any what do you think about that you know I agree the less asphalt the better for conservation that's easy stop in the sub division we us the law hi uh my name is Justin Lawrence of 23 Birch Street uh I'm the one that's uh on the name on this project I agree with what he's saying I think the less impact would be better you know I mean thank you so again what I was asking uh Mr Deion is is your client asking for a continuent so that we can research both these options for the next meeting Contin because I I do believe we have to have a different draw showing this if if it's what you want us to approve I don't think we can just uh kind of we're try to get I would feel better if it was advertised and people had a little bit of time to look at this and vote on it next meeting if this is what you're asking what what do you well it it's uh that puts us in a tough spot without knowing that the 50 Foot the variance for the frontage is something this board is on board with and I know you can't take a vote but you could do a straw poll without it we're just rolling the dice for a month hoping we get it and then coming back with a well I think what what we're looking at if you continue is option A versus option b and it's still yes or no based on the whole board but I don't think we're throwing away your other option no it would be we would file another application for the second variance I I don't think understand I don't think we can amend the the application thank you I agree with you so we'd have to file a second one so we would have two variances before the board this just I guess what I'm trying to say is I would hate for my clients to lose a month can I get can I get know that any feedback from the board on what you think I I'd rather if if both parties are agreeable to a solution I would take that any day over approving something that another part is going to be grieved at um and so that's my thought process I strong agree the original one back in 82 there's less destruction and it is much better for the environment it sounds like that's what the neighbors want it's it I know it's a better deal for you guys so so if that's the consensus then we'll request a continuance for one month and we will file the addition to get on to the same night yes will we be able to do that will we meet the deadline yeah cuz we're continuing it and we're going to this board's going to allow I'm going to take a vote on that will we allow him to add this considering there's a whole month for the neighbors and anybody else in the neighborhood to come up we're not doing it tonight we're telling everybody live that you know we are going to add a variance to this so they're going to be a a lot less shot actually on the the Upland we'll reduce it by 50% we're going to be uh contemplating a vote on a shortage of Frontage as well is everybody in agreeance on that can I get a motion I'll make that motion a second all in favor so so we we formally request the continuance of this case and we will file a second we're going to allow you to add the uh yes oral and again I I mean our you heard everybody here we want both we want all parties in the neighborhood to you know be worked out and to be fair to all so good thank you thank you thank you all right so that is continued uh we do need to take a vote on that motion to uh they asked for a motion to uh they asked for us to continue I need a motion and a second all in favor continue to next month um I'm going to give you that now so that it's on the record April 16th is that enough time for for advertising yeah okay so the next meeting will be April 16th at 6:30 p.m. and that's the continuing dat for this hearing as well all right thank you now we're moving on to our second case of the evening case number 2024 03268 case of Kathy and David M of 203 Lenny Street who are appealing the board due to decision made by The Building Commissioner concerning one 97 Len Street and a business certificate to chase the terror on August 2023 this aggrievance is made under the provisions of Mass General Law chapter 40a Section 8 14 and 15 okay I would like to uh recuse myself as a board member because I'm a latest with the det teris so Kevin and take my SP okay thank you Mr yes chairman uh for the record my name is Jim Marsh I represent Kathy and Dave mcut trust been Kathy mut Nom trust they're the owner of property of 203 L Street officies um thank you Mr deta for refusing yourself we're also going to request that um Mr Leonard and and Mr White I know Mr White you're a uh associate but if you were to fill in um we would want to have him recused as well just because of the relationship uh through their employment uh we think is a conflict this creates a problem I know for the for the board because you need a quorum and you need four votes um there's this thing called the rule of necessity I'm sure you're aware of it um where you have an issue like this where many been conflicted out um and I can make this real quick is um rule of necessity if if everybody's whoever's left essentially can vote um out of necessi that there's not enough MERS however before you invoke this rule um every effort supposed to be made to find another border or authority in the Miss Valley with the legal power to act um in place of and in this case your board um the border selectman under border of uh sorry under the zoning bylaws uh have the powers uh to enforce um the zoning bylaws I think they would be um a Authority that could uh review and deliberate on this um this this appeal of Mr Baba's decision as to whether or not to enforce um so we're suggesting that this be obviously um changed in form to uh the board of selectman it it is suggested that Municipal Council should be consulted to to identify whether the this Municipal board would be the appropriate Authority uh but we're we're suggesting that the board of Select would be that um where that there you know we're having uh at least three recused tonight and we we're we're up against it where we're not going to have a forum I'm going to um just talk with my board members individ uh you know in Open Session here but individually for a second because you're asking for their refusal obviously Mr deta knows that this is his family member and the right thing um I I anticipated this coming and I know that you know DW white I don't actually know the ownership or how it works and I know that Bobby works you know under Jeff um do you feel there's a conflict are you guys you know why am I being accused well again I Chuck I know you were at for DW I mean it's a small town I've known the det teras just like I know almost everybody else in the room every week here you know you got 10,000 people in town people are going to know each other yeah I I don't see how Mr lenon working with Bob who's not on the complaint work for KES oh you're you're you're not even in there years I apologize I know my thing was you worked at DWI no I work at K okay and and we you know our our thought here was where where there's um where you're through your employment you had a relationship with um Chase's dad um and that you know Chase has made the um claimed that what he's running out of that that property is simply for family um that that what we thought created a conflict and the same for um for Jeff with respect to DW white and and the fact that um Robert worked there yeah but I also have my dogs he takes care of my dogs too the I mean we're bringing the the the makucha are not and it's against whether or not for should be brought against it is tough in small town well like he says he brings his dog there you know we can only request that you refuse yourself you make up your own choice I mean I don't actually I I thought you worked at thew if you don't I don't I agree with you you do what you want on that and and same with Jeff I'm not asking you to recuse yourself I'm asking you if you think you should or if you can vote you know with your conscience IR regardless of who the parties are that's what means everything to me and again a parents is everything too so you got to you got to sell it to you know the public down the I mean I just walked in here and I'm saying bobie works for us and I bring my dogs to the kennel and my mother does and stuff it's been long can I can I say one thing I'm I'm Tera okay I live at 197 I don't work for Jeff I work for Jeff's brother Jeff's brother owns a company Jeff's just a a worker like I am so I mean I'm not saying that he's your boss or Superior I'm just saying because the relationship where you're employed at the same I know I know everybody complain is for Chase the Tera not the Tera I don't understand how is it is I mean there's nobody in here doesn't know the mutas through the dog kennel or through all his years of service on the fire department so you know it it's it's one of them I mean this David has called me up plenty of times to say this is what I'm doing over here and I jump answer the phone and call he's a representative of the town for years I mean we all know each other understood so I'm just making the request if if the request is again thank thank you Randy for ACC yourself is the right thing to do you guys you're on your own yeah you got to make your own decision and um also if it's one and not the other the mochas can decide to move forward with the four of us it's enough to make a vote we still have a qualum um that's up to them too so I'm I'm going to let you guys do what you want on this I mean it's like for me it's 5050 I'm not recusing myself I mean that's why I feel about it to okay just so I think we have a five member board um obviously your clients can make it a an issue down the road but I think these gentlemen can vote fairly okay okay um I don't know if you want to start a you want me to stop I um I've I've read through everything and again you're challenging the building department and I've been over to the property my issue with the whole complaint right now is it saying about somebody's running a construction company and there's a building permit over there open for construction so there's a couple piles of dirt there that I'm told came from the ground of were excavated from that round and moved to somewhere the excavator that I believe is in question belongs to the homeowner not his son who's running a landscape business um as long as there's an open building permit I make it very hard to determine whether there's anything going on over there that's not supposed to be um I've read all the letters I've read y letters I've read the building inspector's letters I I I was in his seat doing his job years ago so I know what he's supposed to do and it looks like he issued a building permit and that's what they're doing is building it sounds like chase the terror applied for a I want to use the wrong word but a business certificate to run some kind of landscaping business which has nothing to do with the actual complaint here of construction equipment on the property so I'm going to turn it back over to you and maybe further explain what what the issue and why it's being overturn to me cuz I just don't get it as long as that building permits there in run the construction there's going to be construction equipment there and there's going to be a few piles of dirt I haven't seen any proof that anybody's brought any dirt from the outside and in there or is doing any kind of excavation work as far as the business certificate and and doing that it's it's a customary home occupation which he had every right to do um I'm going to give Mr baber a chance to speak scen so this is a complaint against him and I don't see it do you have am I off base on what I'm thinking is the case here not at all um and what I would suggest through you Mr chair is that you allow um attorney Marsh to go ahead with his and then I would like to that thank you so thank you we we Mr I don't know if you want to join the audience that there's no parents of you putting an input from this side obviously you're a director butter you can speak I am from that side yes but it looks like we have a five panel board that's willing to go forward and listen to you so my clients filed a request to the Building Commissioner um to enforce only against Mr deta Chase deta for operating a contractor's business out of the property at 197 Lenin Street okay as you guys know that property is located in the aush residence a zoning District in which the town of Acushnet zoning bylaws prohibit this commercial activity and I think I think we can have consensus on that that a contractor's yard is something that's prohibited in an RA District not not the office no there I'm a contractor I run my home out of my business but I park a on ton vehicle in my driveway which I'm allowed to do and I go to work every day I do no business at my home my business is somewhere else and I'm Allowed by town and I have a business certificate to conduct business do my paperwork do what I got to do he is not allowed to bring materials in and out and to use that as a base of operation but he can certainly write checks from there and mail people and have you know that's a customary home occupation that's what you can do if if that was a principal which he lists by way of his his um CR to teror avation LLC if you look at the mass Secretary of State's office it has the principal place of business to be 197 Leonard Street that would be fine as you just mentioned if it was an office and he sent invoices or he got took care of his billing there or that was the administrative portion of his business that's not the case here at least we don't think that's the case here and that being the neighbors who see this constant activity my clients seeing that constant activity it's not just like your your your description of what happens where you have your truck there and you get in and you go to your job site and then you come back I I did go to the site last week know there's no evidence of any materials coming and going from there there is a I believe it's the purple escavator is that what we're talking about over there little mini escavator that's one of the several it it's been there for 30 some odd years it belongs to the homeowner not chase the teror as far as I know and I'm going to ask you point blank here uh Bobby is that part of his business operation or is that your yard machine that's my yard machine okay the Bob cap the one t is all mine and I actually worked for mou at his yard with it one year he did not so I want to say that I'm sure my father guys guys we got one at a time please let him speak um that that these items that we claim were located on the property um were removed from the property prior to your um site visit no no I I saw them there that's what I'm saying there was an excavator in the yard there was a trailer in the yard and there was piles of dirt but they were overgrown with you know weeds and stuff they've been there for a long time so I asked the question and he said this is from the hole in the clearing for the the property you you got to understand my issue here there's an open construction permit on this property they have a they have a job going on there so they have to bring in equipment in and out for that project that somebody's got to tell me that that's separate of what we're complaining about because that's allow yeah but why is that equipment as I've shown in photos being removed from the property and coming back the next later that day that's that's what I you know need to know and we have uh we have these uh Facebook posts that are put up by the the company saying hey another great job and there's the purple or blue excavator because that's that's not being used simply to to do what needs to be done under the open building permit at the property Builders can have two or more jobs and go back and forth two or more jobs I see Facebook post constantly from the from the company all over town every Builder has multiple jobs you can't be stuck in one job I not allowed to do work in town you can if you if you put your equipment that's part of your business at a location where a contractor's yard is allowed in town I I I think I see what's going on here now is the the the equipment is being used to work at your house but it's also being used to work out other jobs by Chase fought his operation yeah as well we take as well as our other properties we are to my it's not my only house I mean I can't take it to another I mean I can't take it down the driveway to take it to my other place that doesn't make any five different job he's got he's got employees he works with other subc not have employees employees but I do not have a single employee all right so then they must be independent contractors who've been shown in these Facebook posts at these job sites that are working with you on these projects using the same equipment using the same equipment that you're storing and the materials you're staging at the 197 lenen Street property there is not such it would cost me money to haul material home to haul it back to a job site we've seen a pickup truck come and go we've seen a trailer in the driveway along with his enclosed trailer a bulldozer two Bobcats two excavators blue and yellow and these have been seen on other project sites not just and and all that simply to work on the open building permit that seems excessive youu he's got storage containers in the yard that store his business equipment it's empty again on a regular basis my cents side side materials delivered to and picked up from property for these job sites so they were old drain pipes we've seen on the property landscaping material he he in his description on the Secretary of State um articles incorporation lists that he's a excavator grading site Work Land Management drainage work drain drainage pipes on his property he regularly stores various other construction related items there's logs PE Stone PE Stone put that that goes into landscape new basement you know anything about digging holes blocks rebar gravel and other materials are all those Associated or directly being used as uh materials for this open building improv it I don't think so I think I have questions for Mr deta before we move to the building department so not to not a be a dead horse this is not I I get it maybe some of this equipment and materials is being used for the family as part of this open building permit but come on I mean it's it's obvious he's made it obvious that he's doing work all over town and he's bringing this stuff to there and back to the property you can't have a contractor's yard in in this zoning District the home occupation or customary home occupation accessory use that alone doesn't allow you to store stage use equipment for your offsite projects um if it was simply his office that's one thing but this is not what he's doing Mr deto can I get you to answer to these questions yeah you you got to come up to to the podium so everyone can see you on here on TV um again when I went over there it didn't look like a lot of stuff had been coming back and forth but it sounds like they're documenting with pictures that you're actually coming and going with multiple excavators and skid stairs and I think I heard uh dozza is that the case are you using this as your location to store equipment just my small bob cat so the Dozer was there I bought a buldozer I needed an engine I like tinker with stuff so I put a new engine in it got it running the Dozer ran I drove it on a trailer it left it never came back it's at my cousin's lot it stays there that that was going to be my next question is if you do have all this equipment and you're not putting on that site I I would presume you have a place that you're actually working out of with your other equipment and where you would bring a little material if it was excess versus your dad's yard yeah I don't bring any material home and I do not haul any material home to haul to drop sites sometimes I'll come home for lunch there might be something in the one ton but it stays on the way yes it's in and out some cuz I eat lunch at home so I'm in and out once in the morning once in the midaf afternoon and then I come home at night I'm hearing that they drop you you're having deliveries dropped off of pipe and stuff like that is that I mean generally you wouldn't do that you have it delived to the site we had brought an ads drainage pipe home it one of the pctures listed in his packet and we use it for sauna tubes for the new back porch of the house gotcha I mean I'm not there every day looking at this so I'm listening to you I'm listening to him uh the building inspector is doing his job every day I'd like to give Andy a chance to speak on this can I ask one question before we move on to Andy um can you give us the location for where this equipment uh that you're using for your um CR to ter excavational Landscaping Company where is f equipment and we M where fer equipment way M it's a rental company and I have all the receipts to show that all the yellow equipment that you see is a rental okay and and just one followup why isn't your yellow and blue excavator if that's what they are um why aren't they at that location why aren't they being I'm not asking I'm asking they're not M they're not mind to say where they go and what they do but you're using them for these projects at these project sites but any homeowner is allowed to take any piece of equipment home and allowed to have some type of yacht equipment that lives on a farm like base where you have a lot of land and you need a you don't have agriculture at your property show me an animal show me some crop that you're growing you heard of maintenance on a big property anybody has tractor in town Mr makuch has multiple tractors a bcat all types of stuff in his house and he hides it in his garage we don't have for have it he's not using as part of his business so so I guess my my question's going to be to to answer their question when you bring that equipment to your yard is it to use in your yard time it stays on when my my skider comes home all the time skid a very known and prone to be stolen so it's got insurance on it it can be left at a jobset if it's needed to I'd rather see it be on my trailer in my yard when I come home at night it's a small trailer it's towed by my pickup truck and nothing that we have right now is in the business name I bought that skid St with my own money I bought the trailer with my own money pickup trucks got personal plates on I have no name on anything everything that comes home doesn't have a single word letter DOT number and it's all bought and paid for in fold with my money not the business but I'm going to let Andy talk but I think their their argument is if you're taking that equipment back in it's not being used at home for home purposes you're just storing it there and going back and forth to work with it then you're running your business out of there you know versus having a place where you can store that you know you you have have the right to bring your one ton truck home that's that's in the bylaw you have a right to to you know do your business and do that but there is a line between how much construction equipment you can cross over that threshold morning day and night so um again I I I think the building inspectors keep an eye on that I think that I I thought that I I I don't know what I'm thinking now but I thought it was because you got a construction project going on at home and that's what it looks like to me but I'm being told the opposite so I got to listen to all sides [Music] here hi my name is Andy B Building Commissioner um just a little history uh before all of this started Chase came into the off actually went into the town clerk's office got a business uh permit application and he in part of that approval process it comes over to the building inspector's office review it and say yes or no for that business certificate when Chase and I talked in the office it was strictly for Banking and a mailing address for not only the IRS but for the Better Business Bureau it just it tracks down the list we have countless numbers of these kinds of businesses people that run real estate offices out of their house obviously you know they go to a listing and their business is taken place but they need a legal address we have uh internet Auto Sales they're all over town that people buy on the internet and sell and again they need a business place they need a place of business to actually have a mailing address and for banking so when I looked at it it he he told me that there would not be any Vehicles going in and out of the property for the landscaping business with the exception of a small either 12 or 14 ft uh coverall trailer and that's where he will you know go to a job site do the job lock up his equipment and most of the time it stays on a job site if it's a safe neighborhood and if not he brings it home when the complaint came in with all the photos that I'm sure you've seen when you look closely the material that are photographed are absolutely Dain to the construction project okay when I talked to um Robert Robert he told me he said that's all the stuff we used and are continuing to use to wrap up a construction project so most of those complaints and photos were dismissed by me because of that so it got a little bit more um contentious and I can tell you from the time that this was filed until today when I went by I've been by the property 20 times at least all right I don't see what the makuch family is seeing so when I asked Chase and Robert about the truck they said it's just it's kind of like a one and done the piece of equipment gets transported they do the job if they need rentals they'll apply and get rentals and that's it so it's really a very to me very much a low-key situation when you look at the north end of town there isn't I can tell you there aren't many backyards that don't have some form of agricultural tractors Bobcats you know they're everywhere so um again this this was a little bit difficult I knew it was going to be an unpleasant answer but I think the best that I can do is what I have done and I would ask for your support of uh my not providing zoning action so again listen to everything I'm I'm hearing the complaints I did make my own observations I went into the property last Tuesday cuz I actually I thought the meeting was last Tuesday I wanted to make sure I could see what's going on all that material there has been sitting there you can tell it's sitting there I know what a pile of dirt that's been sitting there for 6 months looks like versus one that's been moving out and people are buying and selling property um the fact that the building inspector is telling me that he's not only made the one trip I made but several trips back and forth it tells me I'm I'm I'm hearing the same thing I'm seeing um I'm going to stop talking because we got a hand I just have a quick question for the building inspector and and anybody in the room has anybody got have you got any other complaints except the makucha on this issue at all like I saw they mentioned the their attorney mentioned um in that statement the neighborhood is all up in arms is there anybody that's in a butter here I'm one of them I'm sure there's a few others that is on the makucha side that this is a big issue so through you Mr chairman um the answer to that is no and the only notification I got came from three or four AB Butters that were speaking on behalf of the deter thank you so no other yeah yeah I just I just like to say personally I I've known Andy a long time I know he takes his job very seriously I know if he saw an issue there he'd be telling me there's an issue there if he's telling you there's not I I I'm on board with having his back I mean that's you know I I I know Andy very well he definitely is thorough and he's if he's getting a complaint he's going to check it out and make sure there's not an issue there um I will say that this being said it's here Andy I know we'll be on it more so we got to make sure that there it doesn't become a bigger issue we got to make sure that with the close of this building permit when you wrap it up that it all gets cleaned up and goes away but until that issue I I I I got to stand behind my building inspector and I like to see so make Mo behind the building Spector I mean that the complaint is against them so yes it's a it's a it's a vote to say that there's there's been no wrongdoing and he's doing his job and holding up the zoning as he's supposed to or that you think he's ignoring something and I don't see it so I just have a do you have any logs like more thorough evidence than we cut down like5 trees like like like a detailed log throughout the date like this car entered at this time this truck left at this time and he Clos you're asking them yeah cuz I'm just going to be on I'm I know neither part I'm as impartial as you can get so I I get I get the concerns for the Neighbors I probably would be concerned too but I can't I I'm just I'm struggling here with the evidence presented so far that to really make a definitive determination that this is taking place yeah this is actually taking place to to what is being I'm I'm I'm not saying it's not true but right I I need more than this all right so specific logs I I don't believe the um the mes uh kept a log um and that would have to be corroborated with photos too I would be able here I think they'll be able to go back we we see these pictures and these pictures are just the truck and trailer Po in the yard which is allowed provided see this is this is what I think you're you you guys uh need to consider is the truck and the trailer at the at the 197 Leonard Street property if it was for the project at 197 it could be parked there but where it's also being used at other project sites it's no longer simply being used for the open building permit right it's being used for his business while that open building permit is there it creates an issue for us because he can certainly do work wherever he wants and do work at his own home does well here's the thing he if he's working at home and needs that equipment he can bring it to the house and use it for the open building permit but because it's equipment that he's using for his business and project sites off the property that should go to a different location that's an allowed that's allowed in whatever District that allows contractors yards he needs to do that whether it's Wham Ferry equipment whatever it was the equipment needs to go there and then when it needs to work at 197 he brings it to the property hell it can overnight agree that that's what I'm saying I I can't I can't prove that when he's bringing this equipment home it's not to work in the yard that's that's my issue I don't yeah but it needs to then go offsite back to some location where a contractor's yard is in allowed use because it's being used for his business and the Home Project now no because if he keeps bringing stuff and leav at the house then he's running his business out of there you see it in the photos he's taking the stuff leaving the property coming back at the end of the day posting how great his his excavation work was using the same equipment that equipment needs to be site cited at Fair equipment can I comment and brought the what you're missing what you're missing is this is one of the sites this is a site so it needs to leave if it's not being used no it doesn't no it doesn't he can leave his he's got an open permit for a construction site the construction equip can be as much as he wants it to be to it's finished right then but then he can't take it and go to another project site of course he can't no he can't running business out of there now now he's staging in is storing his equipment at the 197 location again I I don't disagree with you generally while he's got a construction project going on the equipment can certainly go there to work on the construction and when the construction done it goes back to that allowed location can I clarify something please about the the equipment that's mainly on my brother's property it's his it's the purple excavator the small one the Bobcat the small dump truck it's been on we have 5 Acres of property together right next to each other it's been constructing everything on our properties it's built our pools over the last 25 years uh basketball court additions everything that's his property we use it all the time to do little projects myself I mean this is this is crazy been here 50 years I agree with you doing the same thing if you can use it you can take it to your house and you want you want him to move it off every time he's done with it like if he borrows a piece of my brother's equipment you want him to then take it to somewhere else now I'm getting what's really going on is this doesn't belong to chase the terror or chase the terror excavation anyway the only thing Chase owns is the is the Doza which is not on the property not even there cin then that stuff should be one photo that they have that should stay full time and it should be part of the business it should stay fulltime at the at the property if it's that'll have to refer to the building department and maybe someone with a big because I I can't see that his father can't let him borrow a machine to go do work I I mean I don't know that's a that's a pretty fun here but that's that's but if it's for his business that now we're stretching things we're now really stretching what the B laws allow so a a Mass state policeman bring his Cruiser home a plumber that might run his out of his business out of his home has a van electrician HVAC guys so technically if we do that nobody can bring the Vans home well it's not the van the trucks allowed truck you can't do business we're talking we're talking about a piece of equipment and the issue I see with the equipment is it it's not chases it has nothing to do with the business but his father's allowing him to use it to do work so I mean there is some kind of Fine Line there but I don't know I mean that so the machine's been there for 100 years it's fine but now because he's letting his son use it to do some work it's a problem you a video camera that records that's a fine thre claiming he's been out make a motion to support the building inspector been out every day with his truck we have a motion in a second the vote made a motion are we ready to vote no I have something to say okay Cathy M um for the last six months I've seen him go out every day with his father's tractor with his yellow tractor somay some days he takes the purple one out comes back gets the yellow one he's got all his jobs posted on um Facebook his sister's saying oh my brother's really um what's the word she used there with his jobs all last week I've seen him remove the equipment cuz I knew you were coming and uh all he went on vacation then he came back and all week long I see him go in and out with his truck in his trailer out every morning he comes in every night and his his his track is not there now because you would yeah he may have uh known this meeting was coming but he didn't know I was coming I didn't call anybody till I was in the a well his brother his un I called Bobby so I wasn't trespassing as I was pulling in his yard to say hey just so you know if anybody's around I'm in your yard it's me they use my landan to go across with their construction equipment he is not on that lane it's a 25 foot right away from the city of New Beford not bar not Chasey he is running a Commercial Business across my land and I don't think that's right either I have to put with him put up with him going back and forth a couple times a day with all his equipment he comes in he Fe it was already put in court and you took hey guys time we're going to court again girl the bo time they have 150 foot to put their own driveway in and they won't do it because that's we've used we've used that driveway for 30 years we've already you've already taken to court for trespassing and they he's going to keep going to court every time he does trespass on myesp driveway it's right away for the city new away for anybody we're definitely not here for that and again look I have pictures when loyers are involved I try to stay on top of my game and know what's going on and I know that right away has been dispersed and all went away they have every right to access the right away that that a judge said so no it isn't yes it yes it did what judge to court we went to the court when you filed trespass no TR I don't want to discuss that here that's not what we here for we're here to discuss whether or not Mr Baba is upholding his end of the bag and doing his job for the town and I believe he is I am am going to strongly suggest that he does what he's already been telling me he's doing which is just continue to monitor what's going on over there and you know to answer your concerns as well if if you see something give a call you know so when all that equipment comes back I'll call Andy up when when the equipment's on there if they're doing work on this project there's not much he can do if it's just coming and going all day long I I would say you know give him a call and let them know what's happening I I the pictures are in front of you the trucks in the I have pictures of of their equipment that I'm told Mr Dara owns and I mean quite frankly he don't own a trailer he don't own he can run his Trucking trailer back and forth that's legal L we I I run my truck and trailer out of my yard every day that's I I have to park somewhere a truck correct and trailer truck and trailer trailer you can have a trailer at night all I make that motion to support the there's a motion a second already um I think we've heard I'm not not saying that the pictures aren't true I'm saying it's not enough to overturn the building department doing his job I think he's doing his job I think he's out there trying to control the situation and I'm listening to him telling me he's out there trying to control the situation and again I I I do believe that there's going to be a a time soon where this project getss done and there'll be a little uh less that can happen there um again I talked to I try to talk to everyone see what's going on I talked to Mr B I went into Bob's yacht I looked at it I saw all the old stuff I said what's going on here he said when my Project's done that lom's going right back over it it's all going to be cleaned up I don't want a construction business running out of my yard this is what they're telling me this is what I have to believe I I I got aide with Andy doing his job I mean that's where I'm to the V we got a motion a second all in favor so moves take you for your time guys thank you can I have before we close the meeting can uh make a comment to the attorney um a lot of those pictures were taken from our property and if anybody wants to take pictures from our property in the future that they ask permission to come on our property the work on Town property thank so we do have a continuation and we do have new business for the next meeting um so we will be having a meeting as previously discussed on April what 16 16th at 6:30 p.m. that being said I'll entertain a motion toj motion wej all in favor [Music] so