[Music] morning everyone uh today is May 16th the time is 6: p.m. and this is the acis Planning Commission this meeting is being recorded for future viewing on the town's YouTube channel and also uh on the cable channel can I get a motion to open the planning board meeting I make a motion to open the planning board meeting second all in favor I can we get everybody to introduce themselves Peter Gua member Steve bu member Mark Fran chairman Ryan damps member Rick Ellis Vice chairman all right uh real quick let's get through some meeting minutes Haley sent everybody the meeting minutes to the May 2nd meeting we were all in attendance let me know if anybody has any questions comments concerns now [Music] I'll make a motion to accept I'll second it all in favor I I [Music] [Music] okay uh we were going to discuss the decommissioning bonds uh going from De uh cash charity to bond for the two naison um projects 355 Main and 3 and 550 main but they did not get their paperwork to us in time so we are going to skip over that and uh deal with that at the next meeting or when we get the information other business um we have a gentleman and Brad Johnson that came into the office looking for some information you Mr Johnson I am could you please get up introduce yourself and give us a brief uh description of what you're looking for okay great um my name is Brad Johnson my wife Rose and I currently live at 175 County Street in Lakeville we're in the process of selling our home so we're looking ahead to you know where we might want to live after we complete that sale uh we're considering both purchasing existing property and the possibility of buying a vacant lot to build a home one and uh the reason I I wanted to talk to you is um I've been looking at a particular lot in a kushit off n Lane um that has caught my interest it's been listed for sale for some time probably because it's currently landlocked it's a 1.7 acre parcel um just south of e Lane and east of Route 18 it currently has a what appears to me to be a subdivision Road from just to the north about 500 ft long um that would essentially be an extension of Haley street heartley street I believe that that de stands on the North uh uh line of that parcel so I wanted to inquire with you uh really more in an advisory standpoint of the concept of developing this land by building a single family home on it could it be done under the current zoning laws and or you know if variances would be required what would be the likelihood of such variances being granted okay um since I found out about this a few days ago I've given this a lot of consideration and and scratching my head on it myself um was kind of curious if anybody else on the board had any ideas I have an idea but I want to toss it out there does this gentleman have any how big is the lot about 1.7 Acres so it's plenty larger 72,000 square ft so in that road hotley Street there's nothing there right now le currently it it is wooded it is I mean wouldn't even know that that was a paper road so this is Ani it's a 40ft wide right away so it's a bit you know 10 ft below the what the well that's even better requirement is for a subdivision Road I think a local subdivision road but it appears to be the same width as the existing a house here there's a house here there a house here so the one it's just that one I'm looking at part of this um the one of the budding Lots I can't see what it says on there it says say right small little lot is that part of this or or not can I approach to to I think I've got the scene this particular lot right here no that's that's not part of the lot the the the lot in question the 1.7 Acres that described for sale is just that rectangular lot okay right and I you know i' I've read through the the zoning ordinance and I think the you know the widths and the depths I think everything is essentially compliant except there's no Frontage and with the deadend road that wouldn't provide adequate Frontage by itself either right um so what what do you all think I I have a thought myself that I could offer well we we did have a situation a few years back that was very similar to this there was somebody that was landlocked uh that had a right of way through property but they had no Frontage so I wasn't on the board at the time um but I'm I'm familiar with it and correct me if I'm wrong gentlemen essentially uh a Cula sack would have to be put in exactly what I was at the very end at least 150 ft diameter circumference so you have 150 ft yes of of Frontage MH and and not only that is it would be you know a good turnaround for emergency vehicles abut and and and whatnot now Rick help me out with this would it be it wouldn't be an an anr would it would be under a subdivision no it's got to be it's got to be a form C subdivision because you'd be creating Frontage um so it's a it's a subdivision process and I mean 500 ft of Street plus you're going to lose the the land area from the cuack you've got to evaluate whether if when the culdesac goes in if the lot still meets all the zoning requirements uh and I mean the construction of 500 feet of Road plus a culdesac that's no small no that and that gets to a couple of my questions that I had so so regarding the the size of the culdesac um I actually laid this out and a 50ft radius culdesac which I believe is what the subdivision regulations called for it would have to whatever is the minimum in the subdivision I think it's I think it's 50t radius that would still keep me above 60,000 sare ft in total lot area um what I don't know is that that that a culdesac of that size would can again can I does anybody have a panic use on my own so um again I laid this out a 50ft radius cuac would be pretty large Y and it would put you know that distance there would not be tremendous you know maybe 100t or something like that I I don't know how that would you know how lot wids and minim minimum lot wids minimum lot dep you size what is the size of that lot I know it's 1.7 but that Dimension wise um uh yeah I I I can't remember there are other dimensional requirements that the building inspector reviews uh and we certainly would not be giving any advice as to whether potential lot would meet the current Zone setbacks up a building from lot lines and things setbacks and there there there are other dimensional requirements in there relative to a square a square of of land a circle of land within the within the parcel you know there there are other there are other things out there that you may have to comply with the building inspector is the one who determines that I see so um so getting back to your your question you know your your point that building that road would not be cheap um what would the construction standards of that road be uh I got a copy of the subdivision bylaw and it describes I think three classes of subdivision roads this would I'm sure be in the the the lowest class I think it's called I think it's a local road and it you know it describes a 50t right away this is only 40 currently so that would be a variance uh with a sidewalk on one side you know it's a a substantial Town Road essentially would that be required to serve one residential lot that's up to the up to the board technically yes tech tech techn I mean in in a formal in a formal uh submission right but uh the answer is that there's no right answer right now and even even a 20ft wide road with a culdesac on the end so emergency vehicles could turn around uh that's still going to be quite quite expensive oh I understand I understand yeah you know I my thinking is is a road of almost any reasonable withd built to the standards described in in the bylaw it would make this project not financially feasible and it's not just the construction of the road I mean we don't we don't have any information relative to grading of that paper Street how the uh proposed Road would be graded where does the storm drainage go once the road is in place you know these are these are all questions that need to be answered uh we just recently had one submission on Keen Road where the original proposal for storm drainage got thrown out the window so uh and and you don't know that until you've put together an entire engineering plan and drawings and presented to the board certainly there's got to be something at least in terms of proposed grading and proposed uh slope of the road uh and and again I you know haven't had to evaluate all of the dimensional requirements in the bylaw but isn't there like a circle that has to be with all within the lot that never actually or does that only apply to the Village District right no it's it's they they tried doing the circle of continuous Upland but it's still a it's still a square it's still a 100 by 100 square okay that you need that Circle never actually made it through I I seem to remember what you're talking about in in the B law and essentially I think you're right you would have to be able to put a 100 by 100 square somewhere parcel right yeah and I think I think that that would be okay here as much as I hate to say this but is it possible I think it is your best bet is to go to an engineering firm and this is unfortunately it's going to cost a little bit of money but M if they do a preliminary which is just the basic uh set of plans gives us an idea of the size of the law they all the engineering firms they know most of them know all the dimensions needed for for a buildable law and and and then they can play you can maybe put the culter sack on one corner if you can continue the road over you know what I mean there's different ways of doing it um un forun we can't just say here yes you can do this and no you can't do that my other question is is would you he the road would it necessarily have to be it wouldn't necessarily have to be asphalted with sidewalks and whatnot because it's only uh servicing one house well yes or no there are three there are two other lots that presently don't have Frontage on a constructed Road so really that road is going to be giving access for three lots except for I don't believe constructing this road would give those lots adequate Frontage what's the minimum required again 150 it's not just the minimum required if they're grandfathered Lots they don't have to meet the minimum requirements so again there are there's quite a few issues relative to trying to develop a a building lot there uh and I mean if a if a lot and and there are there are legal definitions of what qualifies as a grandfathered lot it requires Research into the Deeds to see who owns it how long they've owned it was it owned in common with other lot next to it these are all questions that we can't answer uh until you know information is put in front of us and unfortunately that means there's there's some there some legal things that need to be put in front of us there are some engineering things that need to be front be put in front of us and there needs to be a little bit of a look into whether you know additional lots are going to get Frontage uh that allows them to be built on how about there I mean there's another thing that doesn't show on this map is uh if there are any Wetlands on the site uh yeah there there are along the Far Western right I mean that that's going to affect your ability to put a house system I did research that there's plent would this lot be serviced by Town water or there's a well re my intent is that it would not be it would not be well is another thing that can utilize a fair amount of of lot area in order to locate it they may own according to health requirements for sighting for private wealth so you've got you got lot of questions and I don't think I don't think there's a simple answer a simple yes or no answer uh I depending on what the I mean depending on what your the price of this lot is cuz right now Lots in a cush are a buildable lot in cush it's expensive right so if this is cheap enough then you go like I said in the beginning go to a good engineering firm and just they would set up a preliminary it's just Bare Bones with just the bare uh Dimensions to give us answers that we would need building inspector would look it over everybody would look it over before it comes to us you'll give s to everybody they'd all look it over give their two cents and then once we've looked at it and the engineer is actually looked at it and said yes you could do this because of this this this this and this they have they have uh they've been doing this for a long time where they know what can of can't be done um then you could you could come back to us and then we could you know say yes or no but it's a a conceptual design yeah exactly exactly and and and actually when you do that you know lay out your culdesac you know lay out your Square you're going to have to do something relative to Wetlands and you would solicit an opinion from the building inspector uh with that plan I do you feel that this layout would satisfy the uh the zoning requirements or building lot the town do you know if this lot's even parkable no I have no idea I don't know but just a just a note I believe there is Sue up up right up that top end of nce Lane that you okay that's that's good to know that would be a long run I know it's up in this area over here on the opposite side over here of n Lane uh but they there I don't know where that line goes so that's something that you it'll be um my guess is you you got to go see the you'd have to go see the DPW but I believe that it's um you would more than likely need to have a a pump oh I totally agree 500 ft there's essentially no not really any changing elevation between the building site and the road so it would certainly need a pump by so so you that's another cost that you've got to look at can could I possibly do a septic system if the answer is yes can I tie into the sore uh maybe maybe not would be cost that's up to the sore that but even whether you can tie in or not I mean just just because the sore goes by your property doesn't necessarily mean you can tie into it you know there can be a tie-in fee uh plus the hard cost of the pump and the line uh all 500 ft of it uh that's why I you mean there's there's a lot of there's a lot of considerations with this particular property yeah and if you're running if you're if you're running 500 ft of sore up the street up up up to your lot uh you know do you want to run water at the same time you know I I I think I would rather not do either because I think a well and a septic would be cheaper if they're feasible that's not that's up to you and in which case again that's part of whether the lot is going to be a buildable lot when you get done with or not yeah I the cost of the roadway is my greatest concern and I think it's easily what could be the number one showstopper so you know I would need to get a handle on that before I really even consider anything else I again I would probably just go to an engineer and um yeah I mean I don't have an idea on construction costs I mean it could it could easily run you $150 $200 a foot to put yeah I believe it all depends on the construction standards that are required and you know if I can build a gravel driveway that's one1 the cost of any rolls back into the question is that now going to provide Frontage for two other Lots besides besides yours yeah these these Lots all might be conjoined that you can't see on paper you know one up on mean under the same ownership underneath the same own they're not actually they're not they're not well not the the lot that's um on the top top left right there theed n Lane I see that you mean the little triangular lot well you got the Triangular lot there's obviously a building on it assuming a house but the the the L-shaped lot okay that could be part of uh oh oh you mean co-owned with another well it could be right yeah they they could be they could be conjo there it could be own and so I think I checked all the names I think I think they're all different but yeah that that's possibility yeah which would which would help your uh so so I I I think what I'm hearing is that if I wanted to build anything but a full-blown subdivision Road as described in the bylaw a variance of some kind would be needed you you would have to request relief from some of the requirements because it's a form C every one of those neighbors is going to be at the meeting right right and you know yeah it's uh yeah okay it's not it's it's not an easy task at all even though there's already an existing town right way to the lot it's a paper Street yeah uh and it has no status to provide Frontage and even if it was built you still wouldn't have the end of a the end of a street is not considered Frontage for a lot it you sack it's considered access right but not Frontage I see so you don't even have 40 ft of Frontage for that lot oh really yeah really y yeah okay that one I'm sure of that one had been through a number of times before yeah I I was figuring a call the ACT would be needed anyway so um I think that's all I've got yeah okay I hope we were hopeful definitely very much okay thank you very much all right thanks for coming in have a good I mean to to make it even more complicated it even though the lots that he's talking about are in separate ownership today if they were held in common at the time time of the change in the zoning bylaw that made those lot sizes and those lot frontages unbuildable then there was they it still may be unbuildable it may not be a separate grandfathered lot you're talking about you're talking about the the other abing Lots you're not talking about the other abing Lots no not in the even if it was so you only have a maximum of three y it' be the one he's looking at and the other two so let's just say Where's scenario those two became buildable Lots you can still get even if even if you would have put in even if you would have put in a gravel road and obviously a lot of waivers that he would have to request you can still put three houses on a common Drive common driveway on a gravel road up to the board up to the board when it comes to the decision of the board but our bylaw right now has you're going have three three houses on a common driveway it depends on what kind of waivers he's looking for it depends on I mean obviously there some Wetlands over here there's there's he's just going to look at the cost effectiveness of it and the best way to do that in my opinion is get an engineer to do a preliminary do a preliminary yeah you're going to have to spend a little bit of money yeah spend a little bit but then you if he if he thinks it's more possible than it's a nice size lot 7200 ft it's a nice size lot might Mark I know I'm not on the mean but I go by it he would be building a road though and some and all those people's like front again it all depends on how much space that all depends on how much space there was I live right over there so I drove by and I'm like that's strange it all depends on how much space there is all right so let's move on all right uh Johnson went okay uh gentlemen we are going to go into executive session for a little bit uh this executive session on the general Law chapter 30A 21 A3 is to discuss strategy with respect to pending litigation if an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the litigation position regarding the town of aush planning board land court case involve involving with a cushion Sola and a civil action case regarding Cushing solar of the of the public body and the chair so declares in the Board Room return to public session uh concluding the executive session um can I get a motion to go into executive session we have to do a roll call vote please all right so moved on the so moves second okay second all in favor I I I I um we will be right back can I get a motion to go out of executive session and back into regular meeting session so moved second second all in favor I let me get a roll call oh I rck Ellis Ryan damps I Mar FR I Steve bu I Peter Gua I okay back in regular meeting um after discussion can I get a motion um is there a motion to approve the settlement agreement and authorize the chairman to sign the agreement on behalf of the planning board we have a motion gentlemen and I get a second I second all in favor I and I don't think we need a roll call I I'll do I I I'm I'll do eye on I'll we'll see what happens we have a unanimous IE all five are in favor um no the town's lawyer reviewed that to reviewed it I reviewed it wew I just want to make sure I my my only C out is as long as it doesn't uh basically say we're going to give them a special permit No period no no your reason we can't stop we can't stop it if it's because of those two reasons that's anything else we can yes okay okay I'll sign these here in a moment if I could have a pen I just the the whole grandfathering L things that's another one of these very convoluted uh things in state law I'm just going to draw on this plan a little bit we've got this guy's lot well he's drawing and his own no this has got this has got nothing to do with him no all right if if at one point the same person owned these two lots yeah mhm and the zoning by law was changed that made the size of this lot non-conforming that guy has 3 years to sell this lot off as a grandfathered lot if it's more than 3 years even if he sells it later on you know like today it's not a grandfathered lot he lost his grandfather status I didn't know that you only three years to grandfather three years time St if you own the lot if you own the lot in common yeah and the zoning by law change comes up that makes one or both of them nonconforming then you've got to sell them and I don't know that you have to get your building permit uh that yeah but these were held in common um this line here would dissolve wouldn't after after so many years another complicated question it depends I could have two owners on this you know me and my wife and one owner on that Y and now it's not in common it's not in common so it's a it is a complicated question uh usually the building uh building inspector makes a determination but oh I'm sorry okay yeah those those are those are questions for building inspector or um Town Council to get the the right answer uh all right one last thing here uh Mr Rick Ellis was out for a week or two missed uh a meeting so Rick uh watched the video of uh the past meetings and got caught up with one particular which is the Keen Road subdivision um I am going to have you sign this Mullins rule to put into the records stating that you are all caught up and gives you uh rights to uh vote on the next one that's not a problem I did view all of the meetings that I was unable to attend and uh but this is the only one that involved a public hearing correct that that and it's only one of the meetings on Kean road that I haven't been to so the Mullins law will apply correct all right yep so F okay okay to clerk super all right gentlemen um our next meeting I think that I believe that was the May 18th meeting I don't it was since it says it right now okay y yeah May 18th uh that's it um our next meeting is June 6th we have a couple of weeks off uh anybody have anything else they'd like to talk or discuss motion to adjourn you got a motion you have a second all in favor thank you good night [Music]