##VIDEO ID:zDquoJb4Igk## thank you evening everybody this is a regular meeting of the Allendale land use board at which formal action will be taken on the items listed on the agenda and upon any other matters which may properly come before the land use board the requirements of the open public meetings act have been satisfied through a posting on the public bulletin board in the municipal building and on the burrow website and by publication in the record on December 29th 2023 with copies being sent to the Ridgewood news certain agenda items will be open to the public for comment and or testimony the board will advise when the public when such matters are open for their comment or testimon uh before we begin I'd like to uh have a salute to the flag pleaseed Al to the flag the United States of America and to the repblic for it stands thank you Linda may I have a roll call please Vice chairwoman Bergen is absent board member warala here board member patrino here board member GLI Aro present councilman deliso here Bo member D is absent chairman Sero here mayor wasinski here alter bucker here and alter con is absent thank you welcome everybody again uh the first thing before we get into the meet of the meeting we'll uh go through the approval of the minutes um I went through them they seemed okay to me think I had maybe one change that we made it and other than that uh they're good to go any comment from anybody on the board please okay then may I have a motion to accept the meeting minutes of the September 30th 2024 uh special meeting I'll make the motion sir thank you board member Wala yes board member patrino yes board member Garo yes chairman suro yes Butler yes thank you okay thank you all right so first on our agenda is a conditional review of the amendments to the L use plan and the hbas study presentation uh that that Ed snikes has been doing for the last I guess it's two months now several months all right so you have a further update for us um yes just before I get into it if I if I may for just one quick second um this morning I I sent out or Linda sent out for me um a document from the DCA relative to how some calculations for however many you needed to have ordable uh housing um I sprung on you to just if you wouldn't mind and to just give a very very Topline brief on this thing for the benefit of the board and for the benefit of the public not long and then get into the rest of it please if you would inv mind absolutely thank you sir yeah no worries and and actually you didn't spring it on me today we we've been looking at this since Monday so uh when it was actually released last Friday and it was actually in line with the state legislature um and there are recent amendments to the fair housing act the New Jersey fair housing out act outlines for those that may not know the uh the overall process the means by which we calculate uh what the actual uh Fair number of affordable units that should be distributed to various municipalities uh that they should aspire to or try to plan for and the reason why I say aspire to is that some of the numbers are just so out out there that they there is actually no way uh for us to address them but yet the state is recognized in some ra rationale that there is this established need of about 85,000 units throughout the entire State over the next 10 years um and that is the number by which they then did a series of calculations to help distribute it around the various municipalities uh although it excluded Urban Aid municipalities which is all part of a lawsuit that's ongoing that I know uh the burrow is is a party to but in addition to that um the DCA numbers were scheduled from that legislation back in March March I believe it was and as of the October 20th which was actually Sunday uh they were supposed to release these numbers so they released them on Friday um and they also provided a companion document with the numbers uh that's identified as affordable housing obligations 2025 to 2035 which is our next round or fourth round because we've gone through three rounds so far of affordable housing throughout the state but they also provide the method methodology and background for their calculations this is a document that as you read it you'll probably your head will spin our heads are still spinning uh as to how this is done uh because they try to use various data sets from the Census whether it's the disal census and or uh other census estimates that are being provided so and in fact back to late yeah and and in fact some yeah exactly some data is so old uh is it really relevant blah blah blah and and before I get into that rabbit hole um it's better just to stay on the surface of this and to identify specifically that in the fourth round the numbers that at least have been identified and the purpose why we're discussing it before this board is that this board as a uh the planning board component of the land use board is responsible for review and update of your housing element fair share plan that's something that we currently have in effect it's an element of your master plan so that's why this board is uh given that Authority and that directive to prepare that document but before we do that we will be reviewing these numbers reviewing the methodology paying so hope that wasn't AI talking to me but anyway um the the we'll be reviewing this data as well as coming up with what is a reasonable approach to this uh plan but what's been identified and the first thing that jumped off the page to me was what's called present need but there's also a number called perspective present need is a term that's used to be a referenced it's almost indigenous need or Rehabilitation share that present need number was 159 units whereas last time it was less than 20 or was 21 I think of was um so why did that number change so dramatically it had to do with the data sets in our opinion that they used um and in fact the 159 just does not make sense for the nature of Allendale what type Community PA because what they're talking about are uh income restricted units or income qualified families that are living in um substandard conditions whether they don't have a finished plumbing or a bathroom and or a kitchen uh things of that nature that you can see that that's probably not the case for a lot of homes uh within Allendale there may be a few that need some Rehabilitation efforts but yet 159 is way off the scale in my opinion and does that number any of the calculations just have to do with any job growth um it does there are there is job growth in the perspective that distribution but not necessarily in the present it talks more about indigenous aspects of of the community and I'm not sure where in the data sets that we are still going through but not all of them are really available to us yet even from DCA so we're trying to proceed with that as well of getting additional information so we can validate or try to anticipate some validation of these numbers what I do what I would offer though that we consider and I just I did discuss this with the attorney for affordable housing that's representing the bur is that we begin by doing what's called a windshield survey that is something that's being done through the building department where they could help us understand how many units they may understand to be deficient whether it be a fish uh complete plumbing and or uh kitchen facilities and then we can apply certain ratios to that so the reason why I mention it tonight is that we are now under a timetable once these numbers were released to have by the end of January of 2025 a resolution adopted by the governing body that accepts some level of number um and the present need number will be part of that so we can do our own analysis which the rules allow and validate our own own numbers that would be what we should do and that shouldn't be that bad to do because can imagine it can't be that many but at the same time that's something that we uh will be discussing and I wanted to mention it tonight so that we could just jump on that that issue as soon as possible um but the perspective need meaning the need that's perspective for the next round which is from 2025 to 2035 years 2025 years 2035 is 260 units again that's a substantial number for a community like Allendale to deal with uh although I will clarify that in the prior round we did what was called a vacant land adjustment there's only so much land in the community that we have that's vacant and or redevelop call it that um and that with in that analysis you then seek an adjustment to this 260 because of that nature and since we did get granted through a settlement agreement an adjustment down to 54 units from previously over 300 units um we will be working with that and looking at any areas that may be potentially uh come online as to changing of development pattern on the piece of property say U but that's something of a deeper dive that we'll do later on um but I wanted to UND let you know that yes that number is high there's questions around how that number was calculated but at the same time regardless of what that number is we're always going to seek an adjustment to that U because of the nature of the community and the nature of a master plan and everything else that we have in the community we want to keep the scale and character of the community in this effort as best as possible so that's what I would advise to board so you're aware when you see the numbers that keep this stuff in mind that the present need is sort of rehab rehabilitation of existing units within the community whereas respective need might be new units of some type of some number so be aware of that and that we will be coming back to this board because of our your role in this whole process to discuss this further future uh but we have I think until June of next year to come up with plan which is I'm laughing because it's absurd uh to try to get this all done through administrative purposes and things of that nature but we'll be working diligently on that and it's important that we discuss it tonight so at least you're aware of how things are progressing and I just want to ensure you know everybody in the buau too that we have been actually working on this proactively as well so we've expected this we've already formed a team we have um Greg Butler our land use board member of the team a special attorney our planner um another council person so um we are we are working on this the attorney that we have have is very specialized and it's very well versed in this and um he's coming up with um actually even some alternative um laws to present to the state he's not just saying this doesn't work he's trying to he's trying to show that um I have a solution for you so um Al andell's obviously not in this alone we're part of this this larger lawsuit but we're hoping more municipalities join actually quite frankly after this and we're all dealing with it New Jersey it's uh I believe it's a system that needs a rehaul um this is a new set of Standards new set of rules DCA has not done this before so um there's obviously gonna be little bumps in the road exactly crazy numbers so stay experiencing yeah than there will be some changes the next thing I'll talk about are the uh under our current study under the master plan we're discussing the issue of a of amendments to our land use plan the land use plan real quickly is the master document for our zoning in town so it helps to underline why the zones are where the zones are and why they're there what they're anticipated in scope to be things of that nature and in that document we also uh review what are called goals and objectives the goals and objectives are things that help to support our zoning uh the criteria within our zoning but also at the same time uh they help protect from any potential challenges or changes to the to that zoning uh so that we're underlining why we've done certain things what we're looking to move forward um what I have uh the board should have an updated document of August 8th 2024 I do have another copy if anybody needs one um I I did bring extra copies with me you you want um so what I'll be doing just quickly tonight um I know I know you have other things on the agenda but if I could take a few minutes just to discuss this uh it's important that I give you updates of what I uh would recommend to our goals and objectives but also on a parallel track we are in fact finalizing What's called the hazard vulnerability assessment study that's another mandatory component of the master plan that the state has enacted that requires municipalities to study any potential hazards due to flooding uh let's say uh other drought conditions other things that are coming from a changing climate um and impacts to our communi so that we are uh adjusting our zoning and land use as necessary in addressing those issues um but yet just from a land use plan perspective just quickly what I'll touch on is that we have a number of goals and objectives that exist within our master plan many are in very good shape um but yet I did provide tweaks to this uh set of uh goals and objectives that I'll cover now but yet one thing keep in mind is that uh the topics themselves on the second paragraph As I call out here cover the range of common issues to be addressed in the land use plan although they should be reviewed and refined to address current needs I offered that there's new legislation or modern uses may represent possible new issues uh that the burrow may want to identify as goals and objectives items that might be relevant to the burrow are development intensity limits the C1 C2 business district Vitality uh fulfillment or Last Mile warehouseing distribution facilities you may want to have statements regarding that because of how that's potentially impacting some communities obviously it's mostly probably the grou 17 quor uh but yet that's something to keep in mind uh sustainable planning practices uh things of that nature are important to incorporate it helps to underline efforts to try to uh improve development within the community um outdoor dining electrical vehicle charging station on public lands is another requirement that the state has enacted that we plan for potential locations for where they could be um in the master plan so with that I'll touch on some of the recommendations that I have in the the document and I'm turning to page two um under goal number one at the heading of that states that to preserve and enhance the Suburban character existing one and two family residential neighborhoods very appropriate goal um but I've also added to that B and C these are two new items using specific defined densities uses and housing types identified in areas of the buau planned in consideration of topographic environmental infrastructure and geographic conditions the reason why I've offered that language is because that underlines sort of why we've done certain things certain locations um and it helps that as this board also acts as a zoning board or combined land use board this form um but yet as a zoning board if you're handling a use variance that may prove to be helpful in reviewing a use variance that maybe has a greater density or has uh geographic conditions that you're trying to preserve uh and not overly burdened so it's things like that that we can use the that go through um item C has been added by reinforcing the buroughs L use distribution and furtherance of the purposes of zoning as they're outlined in the municipal land use law that's also provided so with that that's goal B that's Item B and C of goal number one um and please stop me if there's anybody who has any questions about statements uh goal number two uh to promote a range of housing types and densities and to comply with the provisions the fair housing I did bold that on your document but that's actually the same as it is in the current master plan I wanted you to be aware of that uh item a I've made the following changes or edited the language slightly within the document and it says that EST lishing a range of residential Zone districts that permit a variety of housing types and densities at a development scale and scope that maintains suitable light air and open space uh at determine appropriate again trying to underline the purposes of zoning into that standard of the the housing the goal and objective Item B establishing appropriate Zone districts that are scaled in a lowrise setting so you can hear that I'm talking to the scale and character of the community uh low rise is is in fact that planning term that talks about certain Heights of buildings things that there's no hard definition there really isn't probably uh although there is a uh book that's readily uh recognized by the courts called Mossberg development de common development definitions and in that document bise is called out at like three maybe four stories so that's where that helps you define character um so that someone's coming in with something even greater than that it's like wait a minute this is a spe specific go objective uh update uh also the next one is item C I've updated where it says establish Zone districts for age restricted housing and supportive in promoting establishing establishment of age restricted housing developments designed to address the unique needs of senior citizens I identified I added to that saying we're deemed appropriate and proximate to Goods services and alternative modes of Transit so the idea is trying to concentrate that if it was to be a develop near where you would have these sort of Provisions um so that it's not something remote within your community it's helpful as a statement within your master uh I did update item D change from New Jersey Council on affordable housing to Fair Housing Act Council on affordable housing is no longer uh a entity of the New Jersey state government they've been published so identifi be Housing Act specifically and then under goal number three I've also made some refinements to Item B where talks about to maintain and enhance the viability of central business district I added to Item B saying uh promoting a desirable visual environment and preserve the small town atmosphere in the business districts through defined usage building bulk intensity of use and development design standards consistent with the the consistent with the existing development context and through Street streetscape improvements again bringing that word context into the the the rationale of the goal and objective goal number four uh I'm sorry was the same goal number five I've added specific items relative to environmental impacts result resulting from developments in that goal item a um this is furthered by and this previously wasn't expanded upon I chose to expand upon this goal and I state that development Andor Redevelopment that is responsive to the sensitive environmental features and their limitations while not overburdening the community's infrastructure capacity Item B uh by evaluating I think I should change that word evaluating to possibly scrutinizing by scrutinizing increases in intensity of development Beyond those established by The Zone plan to determine if increases can be accommodated by infrastructure and roadways involved I think that really helps to make sure that we're being very clear about our infrastructure and roadway capacities item C understanding that the numerous sites in the municipality that can contain environmentally sensitive features and therefore may not be able to accommodate their prescribed full Zone development potential uh that is just a recognition of those limitations so excuse me preserving the Celler things like that things like that or if they have steep slopes they have Wetlands pockets of wetlands or transition areas that are relevant to Wetlands or C1 waterways things like that that are important to make sure we're preserving uh skipping ahead to on the second on the fourth page excuse me goal number 10 um this is where uh in goal number 10 I've refined actually goal number 10 does not change I apologize I did bold that but I didn't intend to bold it as a change uh everything's the same up until so certainly so under under 10 sorry maybe touch on it earlier but what about like um you know Electric that's not where you cover that there with electric electric vehicle charging station yeah I put that more on the sustainable practices okay and then I realized that I think somehow the computer restated the fact that that's the next goal is six yeah yeah it should be 11 excuse me go 11 that's why this is a draft um so this would be a new goal number 11 got it which talks about sustainable planning PRS and that is really something that I think grows out of your hazard vulnerability assessment study because we're trying to encourage more water to be infiltrated into the ground things like that encourage things that don't uh add to the urban heat island effect many may know that as a term of art that's talking about when it's heat heated during the day and there's not a lot of shade trees to shade the parking lots or buildings you get that heat radiating back into the atmosphere at night uh increasing the amount of cooling that's needed within buildings but also at the same time just creating a a atmosphere that sort of perpetually adds to the increase in temperatures so if we can reduce the heat island effect it helps to reduce impacts in other ways um so in goal number 11 sustainable planning practices to support encourages sustainable planning practices the burough promotes the following topics of sustainability uh to maintain certification of the community under this sustainable Jersey certification program I believe we are under sustainable Jersey um were we were okay is this something that we still want to promote think about that it's it's something we tried actually it's it's tough for a small municipality actually do that it is there's a lot of monitoring that goes on so it's a thought um and then the next one would be to adopt and enforce land use policies that preserve open space improve Transportation options and create walk up uh compact walkable developments were practical practicable and complimentary to the land use plan uh to encourage sustainable policies which seek to protect and preserve the Burrow's environmentally sensitive features utilizing energy efficient Heating and Cooling methods minimizing waste and incorporating resource efficient and recycled materials uh next one to ensure perspective development of responsive the BS environmental features and can accommodate while preserving these physical featur physical characteristics excuse me the burel principally seeks to limit development to that which preserves vegetative steep steeply sloped topography Wetlands riparian buffers flood planes return retain such natural features uh with existing vegetation and habitat for endangered threatening rare species uh next one would be to make Energy Efficiency a higher priority for the burrow re building improvements in retrofitting burrow facilities with energy efficient lighting and water conserving Technologies which I'm sure you've done through that whole sustainable Jersey process as it was uh item app to promote environmental sensitivity through site landscape Irrigation Design and maintenance methods sensitive to the ecosystem of the region preserve and protect public Acer and Water Resources in the community and last one to incorporate alternative modes of transportation and planning determine appropriate Mr chairman as you had mentioned maybe we could add statement here that talks about encouraging electric vehicle charging stations where deemed appropriate something to that effect and this B something that something that come through ahe some technology thinking ahead you know when we did the last Master we didn't really touch on electric charging stations wasn't it wasn't on our radar yeah okay so thinking forward not necessarily we we should put the electric in there but perhaps maybe have it long composting never no hydrogen could be out there more renewable Technologies something but you know we could see hydrogen cars the only thing I would be careful of is that yes you could see Harden cars um I would then think instead of which is more of a distribution system that's not like a gas station you may have hydrogen gas stations type of thing that you may want to regulate but yet we would consider alternative something to that effect so it's a little bit more a morphic um so that there is the ability for the governing body and or the land use board as you get closer let's say hydrogen is a thing um and but yet we want to put together specific regulations so there's certain offset protections to residential zones things of that nature exactly yeah track right so but yet we say we're open to the idea but we're still leaving the door open to say we need to regulate it right way if it becomes tebe just like pointed out there's there's an art there's an Artful way of saying that thank you yes thank so that's what I had for a review tonight um about the goals and objectives uh anybody has any questions otherwise I'll just quickly touch on our our our schedule board any questions thank you um and so the next thing would be is um we have this Hazard vulnerability study as well as the landage plan uh just so you're aware I did hand out tonight A app that talks about the distribution of land uses within the community this would be your new land use plan it's just a draft right now um it's very consistent with the prior land use plan but what I will come back to you at the next meeting with are the recommended changes that are part of this document you should be next it would be the next meeting or the next schedule time that you have agenda available for me to talk about this um maybe the next meeting um so I will outline that in a memo to you to show you where those various properties are but I updated things like for instance where uh we now have the new Municipal facility um and we have the new uh multif family development which previously was all part of a light industrial s previously so that has now been changed things like that have been added to this document and you should be aware of all those changes we would also identify them within the final Master document so that that's clear that that was was a change that was adopted by this board at a specific date U going forward so that that's underlines the all overall zoning the zoning has been changed for those areas but that we have to recognize that pattern of development by updating langage which is what we're doing um so that will be something I'll come to you next with but in addition to that then there will also be a need we did under the hazard vulnerability study map all the critical facilities some critical infrastructure within the community I know I talked to you about that at the previous meetings we should though have a public session by which I present sort of the overall Global understanding of the plan and what I would do in that instance probably would do a PowerPoint presentation that's right so that everybody could see it be be aware of it but we would have to notify the public probably 10 days at least 10 days Advance maybe through the web page and or a Bulet board um identification uh please come to the board meeting we'll be discussing the issue of Hazard vulnerability that great assessment um and so that's something we should schedule and talk about in the near future uh so that something I can prepare uh for a future meeting so I just wanted to outline that for you because once we do that then which is not necessarily technically required by the statute the recent law change but it's highly recommended and I recommend it too because then we can have maybe additional input into further consideration so um that would be something that I'll I'll bring probably to Linda and maybe try to schedule uh something for that presentation chairman talk about that we we try and well the plan has been to accommodate okay right that's been plan we always we could always schedule think it's take time okay it may be better to do that if it's okay with the board it works in your schedule um because depends upon what sort of input we get because there could be a dialogue back and forth and it's hard to say how long that might take um as to what the issues are although in my experience fortunately there hasn't been much public involvement plan now we've advertised and I imagine every public will be I'm not trying to criticize anybody yet but at the same time um it may or may not take time so that's why they me if not it'll make it a lightning yeah it should be scheduled towards a lightning yeah thank you no problem but just just to get to get my mind would it be you know in a position to do talking be in a position to do in November when is your meeting in November November it's early it's 13th and we have four applications scheduled for that night already yeah so it really should be pushed we can't push it to the 11 because that's a holiday um but we'd have to pick another day in November okay we'll have to talk about that okay we know December is already the December ready ready probably the Nur yes okay right so yeah we be prepared I could very well okay that's what would have you have more that's it that concludes my presentation as well as the questions I have before any further questions okay thank you sir as always thank you do will you need me for the rest of the agenda yeah I don't think I don't think we thank you okay thank you and and thanks for the impromptu on the you're welcome appreciate it okay moving into our application part of the meeting the first on the agenda is applicant file number 202 24-11 are the applicant is Antonio and bimbo apologies if I pronounced it incorrectly uh one East alook Drive Allandale New Jersey 07401 block 103 lot 7 the application as for a second floor and a great room addition pursuant to 27064 B PR sorry pursuant to 27 - 64b pareses 2 and 27054 a uh please if you'd like to come up that's perfect um I'm gonna ask you sir if you wouldn't mind yeah you can sit it you guys sit okay we just want to make sure that we pick everything up thank you very much and again thank you so a little bit of housekeep we've got a board member recusal it's it's solely a proximity to your property it's just for Optics and within 200 feet you have to recuse but otherwise it's just for good measure so we'll have a board member recusal um will both of you folks be testifying tonight if you want to raise your right hand please both of you do you both swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes if you would for the record please state your name uh spell your last name just provide one address I assume you're both at the same address thank you thank you thank you okay as we uh traditionally do here um tell us what you'd like to do and while you're here and everything else okay thank [Music] you two kids one so um again we reviewed the application that you you know you have provided we have um some situations that we're going to go through um Michael perhaps I may ask you to uh have to address this if you would first the application site together Rie memo 15 and there were few techical completeness type of things that we had ask questions about and the African African professionals and address [Music] each provided substantiating the information so I guess as a point of reference to the additional gross building area rates triggers you know the Advan set becomes an issue with some of the addition is actually located setb and it's an odd shape piece of land I me they're here for the relief for for the encroachments I guess existing encroachments and also additional encroachments based on the enhanced site back some of the addition being located and we had asked a couple of put forth a couple review comments not very typical comments for applications I think that seen past or situations like this I think it would be helpful for the board if we the addition there's going to be any exterior mean equipment lighting removal proposed Landscaping know given the fact that uh we have ongoing where the state has the ongoing issues Leed service making sure that materials utilized for both service lines for water and sewer we've been including comments in our riew that's con so I I'll leave it at that and and maybe the app fill the board in on address you you obviously have a copy of given a copy of this yesun that we're doing no no you don't but it's going to be finishes in colors consistent that's really where you know we can't dictate it but that's we always like to had to put it out there as far as like mechanical equipment and lighting I don't know put this air condens like that somewhere you know in line where to be know not coaching anywhere um obviously we didn't get that far to where that Stu is going be placed but that'll be something as far as the lighting um crazy lady We're not gonna have any spotlights on our neighbors or you know anything like that typ something yeah something like that it's not going to be crazy and then as far as the tree removal and um the landscaping again we didn't really go too much into that yet but U I mean I know seen the property need a lot of help with that with that so uh we have already uh remove a couple trees we got a got that kind up there's a couple de trees some that are right on top of the house um but we don't really plan to take anything else out um what we have right now as is um Landscaping the front trees the back nothing you know the top but you know just consider Landscaping um with the sewer connections and stuff like that I already had an idea that to you know get the lines expected make sure there's no issues but sewer lines and bellies or I don't want to have any issues myself down the road so we want to make sure that that thead pipe L like again you do whatever is recommended you know we would look for would be cooperation with the exterior lighting make sure down lighting it's not it's not stilling on to the neighbors neighbors and and I know one of the things that at least one of the board members has have a tendency to ask you know what else was looked at or what are options that you consider that more there's I guess there's a little bit of History here right with a certain set of plans and kind of change direction yeah yeah we we had kind of the letter we said wasn't exactly what the letter needed be so we kind of strapped that and we had at one point um the height you're you know going around with the height and we're like no what let's you know let's let's do that let's like that under the requirement we're real part ofup but we are we are sensitive to I believe it came in initially it was something like so I didn't know how that's fair because slow so anyway weci you know scrap that change all our elevations um as far as what we have here um mention with regular sheep a lot i p a pizza pie not exactly but it kind of Narrows towards the front and really doesn't keep us room so we tried our best to at least keep it in the existing setback on the left and right um and then you know know we thought about you know go left and right then we like you know it to where it is and we don't want to go any you know it's ear approaching that enhan that back based on the the square footage um so we tried like at some point the house bigger so sh it down so we trying to like but at some point like the square footage like the number did work like 40t it's really more to get to that 40t um like we said you know we have two small Suns now we're going to have hopefully a couple more coming and we want to have enough space to be here you know do this now do it correctly and here for the next you know 30 years and that's kind of what our plan was um we waited for this house for for quite a long time we were under contract for 13 months so we stuck it out we knew like that we wanted to be in this that neighborhood in this town so it was like um yeah it was it was a rough 13 months but you know ended up working out now we're here I didn't want to come to do the variant but kind of got stuff with kind of what was in front of us with this it's a beautiful lot is kind of you know land Stu the house in the front of the street so um we did try you well I saw the original or at least I thank you for coming coming back or revising yeah no we wanted to okay as much as we can to like you know be in line with everything else that we're supposed to do so yeah yeah this you know this is one of those pieces of property that is f existing house looking towards in front of the property vast majority of the addition is going to be within the footprint the exis house from the street although the house is going to be taller it's not going to exceed the height the height requirement the addition is going to be consist footprint pie that comes out the back to the back to the back we're not going side to side location the ex so one of one of the things that um again because this is I don't want to call this for Li way more okay um was when when when our engineer raised outside equ okay depending on where they locate that equipment that it could also it's not called out here yeah I mean we you know if this was you know there's another step that's kind have to be involved and as part of that we would ask the advocate to provide some kind of screening for out C equipment but again what um what I'm kind of concerned about or what I'm at least ra is that let's just say the air conditioning right side appr the side in the side and would have thought about this on the way here I would probably do it out the the back where the addition is even kind of put it right in that area not going to be closer left or right okay um yeah I've done that before where you know we went out the back put the condenser on top or something point so that's kind of where I was thinking trying to think of as many things that so um that's kind of where I was thinking that and to avoid a trip back here you're going to have to locate it somewhere where conform that's that's the Chairman's getting at okay and as long as you work with Mr breeland's office um post approval if the board voted to approve this you should be F should be able to avoid having come back to the board for any kind of secondary reviews okay board members questions guess a question your spouts make sure that you're pitching toward your neighbors go testifies about lighting so your second story have you had any discussions with your neighbors I have has your architect looked at what that second story is going to look like compared to the houses next to you and the windows that are looking into your neighbor's properties but that's not about but OB consideration yeah of course whatever we have that's that mean window or something I mean just you know as a concern if somebody building a house next to you sudden you have window and you're change bed W your neighbors just a consideration yeah of course I understand yeah I would highly recommend you try to keep your utility Li as far as the trees go I mean obviously you have a nice wooded piece of br we try to encourage residents to kind of being pay that h of buffering shielding of the neighbor the Aesthetics of just you know whatever trees you do take down encourage you to try to so your own it will when they submit the everything will be maintained they'll have to have an engineer de generally speaking explor in town have to do it that way we encourage wec um I don't see on here but any plans or thoughts about a generator potentially first my head never had I don't know we're most people just be mindful just because of your setbacks right so if you did something like that you probably have to again maybe keep it off to the back or you know strategically place it it's falling off the way obviously it's convenient to be used and tie into the house but so it's not a burden on the neighbors because they do cycle every 30 days looks like there's a pool back there so with the house moving back are there any considerations with young kids or any code requirements or F requirements required distance from your home exens poolen so this pool fenc in are is there any buffer in terms of where the house comes out farther 10 it's just for a record I mean had this house been built back further more Center than the like to say that Rec right now you have two-car garage that's going to be um pretty much part of the walk out basement right that other garage that's in the back is that an active garage that have a door me a little bit Yeah so right now I guess that was like detach garage at some point so it does have a garage I guess at some point up so it's all grass right now right now it's grass from from where pulled out a CH you have fence there but then you have a fence encompassing the pool itself yes fence side else the sides that me needs probably do something at so right now I guess on the U west side of the property which is the left side of the driveway is that wall was it shown that if encroaches the next property is that accurate is there is that is that a good property line where the wall kind of goes over Capac it yeah so looks so there's an easement my neighbor there's a two and a half foot easement so I guess onk not 100% sure the house of trying to me my neighbors for the first time um but um I think that's there there is is a that's been there for a while have any current drainage issues or anything with the property Curr property the previous owners dis anything issues that they've had not any of that stuff so I really didn't know anything about that just me knowing you know a couple things doesn't look like there's any issue yeah I mean know currently the roof down when they and you know it appears too that part the reason why I was ask make point about lighting there's aist I haven't been there at night I don't know subid but I did notice that I finally got the electric on stay on but yeah that needs to be adjusted whatever you're willing to not okay seeing them I open up to the public for comment questioning on this application which just for okay being done I bring it back to the board any further discussion on it this the only comment I have the applic you know they revise the plan toage apprciate to make sure that lighting sub their make sure that there's no drainage foring their neighbors of that and any Landscaping trees they do best effort to try to repl Tre play out I think it's know looking at the land the way it is is where the house is located on without demoing everything reason sir any other comments and I'm just J thank you for the other thing is that um know as this thing progresses to work with like what do you call those things again sorry on site no no no as as built oh yeah as thank you thank you okay so you to that all right um board members that have a motion to uh to approve with um all the notes that to make motion sir board member yes board member patrino yes member ofo yesman yes Butler oops s yes I skipped over you Council is here yes there you forgot you forgot you forgot the May small May yeah thank you okay all right thank you welcome congratulations all right thank so do you know you're having more kids because you look that's probably why I mean just so you know go ahead you want to do itol yeah go ahead go ahead what we're gonna do is we prepare a resolution of approval which is the written document that that codifies everything that happened tonight which involves the conditions everything we talked about here nothing you know is going to surprise and jump out at you we'll adopt that at the next meeting you won't need to be here for that it's a relatively prun event um you'll get a copy of that resolution and then you can move towards your construction documents your submission to building department whatever you like there is an open appeal period in which anybody in the world in standing can challenge or approval um my guess not my advice or recommendation my guess is that there being nobody here tonight objecting to your project uh you putting the proofs on the record that that might have heard a few board members say the C1 proofs which is the unique hardship about your property that you put under of the record that satisfied the board leave justifications your probably not going to have someone challenge you and file an appeal in Superior Court ack act but it's the risk you run and that's a 45-day period that runs from the date that notice of the approval is adopted notice of the resolution is is published so it's it's full of 45 days dat the resolution signed off um you can work at your peril in that window so you don't have to wait within that time frame but you can if you'd like to um that's up to you make that decision um resolution yeah in four weeks from now to next meeting that's when it will be adopted and sure you get a copy of that okay together that would be good good use of your time get that together yeah we don't we don't design it you'll hire an engineer to design it riew but this a step at least you know that we've heard it approved it okay you all right thank you again welcome welcome welcome where are you guys now okay sure yeah did you yeah I'm in k I go through Panic all the time usually go into an Ana in Lincoln Park I usually fly right through beautiful Town very flat my mom lives there now so we're living with her in the midst of all of this but we're really glad you you know little longer again good luck thank you for thank you for for everything all right next time all right so we're going to go to we'll go to the next one in order all right all right next on our agenda is applicant file number 202 24-12 Michael and Melissa DOA 130 Elmwood Avenue in Allandale block 208 lock 9.01 the application is for the addition and revision to an existing single family resident pursuant 27063 parentheses 3 27064 C parentheses 2 and 27057 D um it's okay that's okay um yeah so we go on record and save yeah okay that down so folks so just for the record um we've had two members of the board the day there is an f r variance as part of this application so it involves D relief under the statute to the benefit of the applicant I'm sure your consultant is aware um under the New Jersey state statute only certain members are able to consider what they call delr use variants type relief of which L area ratio variances are included under the statute this being combined land use board certain class of members have to recuse themselves from the application so you're left with balance here because you have that will leave at play you need a um you need five yes permanent votes in order for this to be approved anything less than five it's a statory Deni question okay there you go and the record showing that that that Mr Butler's back with us St okay okay okay then do we have have all that you okay so sir would you please um you're going to testify tonight as well yes as well cons would you please um raise your right hand you swear affirm testimony that you provide the seeings of Truth All truth nothing but the truth yes please state your name for the record and spell your last name and an address s affirm testimony to provide Tru the truth your name from the record and your license is current standing the state of New Jersey you testified the state of Jersey numerous times I assume including before this board all right go ahead neighbor that not filed they were not filed theal I don't know if you want me to enter if you'd like to I mean if there Consolidated packages we can make it simple and call one package a one and then move from there um whatever your preference is is it a staple deck you've got okay but there's different ones you've got or pages okay four page we can mark that as A1 the four photo deck but again all the decks are the same correct yeah okay try to gete oh yeah the microphone please thank you thank you so so Mary again I'll turn it over to you what do you you know what do we doing what do you want to do expl the whole thing please for a couple VAR um the addition to the house what we're proposing as a renovation toting house is a new front porch world we been in the and you know safety of having a cover for for days and stuff a new front for um out the back of the house are going to expand um the combination and also a tiny office for office res today on second going toed exting primary bedroom has powder room and toilet second back there further to the other bedroom we're still maintaining that bedroom not FL but we're just a little more space uh the VAR that we spoke about we are iniz bot so we are a bot that size at 12 in a Zone that's a minimum of 20,000 if we were if we had a 20,000 square foot lot even if we had 15,000 um and just for relevance of the neighborhood I you know and that's why I also on page three and four photos IED out's a mixture of differentes neighborhood property so um in terms of being the neighborhood that proposing proper the scale of project neighborhood the side setback um currently on the right hand side we are ening that it comes for requir 21 yeah it on the left hand side but on the right side the new addition that we're adding that in not that a little bit that that also be noted that there are some large ever trees along that property lineal but more towards the [Music] back in the FR and then there's a there's a break break bre and okay so basically there's nothing house to house there's nothing okay okay just Sor it's running are some know on that and there's fencing current fencing there too the in the rear yard we are addition that the kitchen up higher it's not like at so we're telling thrill our small table we're proposing a small 9 by 10 we not across back of the property back for the grass the rear yard that so this is very common section to section of town far as the area ratio in the building area we adding are are build foot far design of the outside of the house rering again up also lighting we will have standard lighting outside the door do it needs to be redirected I've never any point open up yeah I it's situ they're in a tough situation because across the street almost all the lots are 100t wide Y and not only if the lot next to them 75 a house to the right of them is actually offset closer their house proper so it's it's not at the level as so and it's not connected by it's not like EAS connected min so I mean you know the drill you're already answering the questions that we're going to ask what else should be able at you know what other modifications why did we end up here yeah so um going out to the left was very hard driveway of reloc you know at first we were going to go straight back the decision but unfortunately the house persisted that are also very think I heard a couple times you say that more okay come your opinion is that 300 Avail there is like on the other side of this neighbor but it doesn't not you want anything else I like no I think she addressed everything uh you know one one thing that we do take a look at even though this is a smaller lot have front FR of the house but other than that I think think all the other and we're okay with the uh with we already have an existing P for the air conditioning and put a it looks like you're putting a generator in it's talk it be right there so there's no plans I'm sorry there's no plans to move the air condition where generator was or when a generator looking at okay MERS again any please of the other hous question yeah yeah other properties say like okay was Rao so I did to make the one to the left looks larger the one might be the same right the and then I guess the cross the street diagonal like down at the end of the the end of the road so the question comes up the house to the left if I'm looking at the area VI right now it looks you know significantly bigger the L so it's that that was my second right I don't know what the other NE and I that coverage don't know what their coverage is um but I do feel that if it the 3500 different right right on so you know it is the house is what it is that's why we you know when we designed the outside added the um the D over the garage so that b down and then FR porch also helps with that that however the addition you're not really from the front of the house the back of house only the front of the house that por kind of would you say the rendering is a fair representation the colors yeah I like to touch that I any other board okay I'm gonna open it up to the public for this application only questions comments feel free to come up okay seeing done I bring it back to the board um any other further questions com okay and and um I have a motion to approve make a motion I think the rendering you know keep I know I know that neighborhood as well and just being through there size I have a second board member Wala yes board member patrino yes board member Garo yes chairman yes and Butler yes Lu is always than right so next next application that we have t e all right uh the record show that marinski councilman have joined us back we have our board back okay so the third application applicant file number 20 24-13 Lewis Clemens 65 New Street Allendale New Jersey 07401 block 2204 lot 17 the application is a proposed Second Story Edition on an existing dwelling the front yard setback pursuant to 27-22 27057 b and 27037 a parentheses 4 okay please evening will you testify as wellam or no no the shoot just just okay you'll be the only witness this evening yes okay sir sir can you swear or affirm the testimony that you provide is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do your name for the record please by your last name provid the address Emanuel cabrais last name is spelled k a v r a k i s architect license current in state of New Jersey certainly is testify before L's board in the state of New Jersey 100 times that all right sir uh thank you for coming before us um we'll turn it over to you explain to us what you want to do while you're here okay and the situation please thank you thank you pleas uh tonight as to reiterate single family residents property I have briefly if you're not uh I'm just we had EAS here somewhere I I Mook the camera as the eel coming in if you hold on well I mean I mind I can all right all right if you don't mind hold okay all I just want I want to be clear everything that you're presenting we already have correct Mr the applicant's here with you as well no uh the applicant couldn't be here he has that I testify as a professional um uh for the case uh I prepared these under my office is the building the proposal uh and so on uh is a very El man not made tonight and and assuming safely assuming the board imposes conditions if the board want to he bit to vote to approve you can agree on we have the op to be bound by those conditions yes I uh spoke to him with regard to that um if they're architectural in nature and so on it's a improved use uh we will alls okay please so anyway um I have before me the review uh from the uh uh the engineer uh and so on again we're seeking uh setback variances um the C2 setback variance uh the the property is a a corner a corner property um it has some conditions the pre-existing conditions that is the main um Pro of the tonight's uh reev that we're here uh is is an undersized lot 5,494 square feet again a pre condition uh there are similar Lots in the area uh that's one condition that's leading to a portion of the hardship that uh I feel is very evident and easy to to convey tonight uh for the undersized lot the setbacks are harder to achieve but the the majority of the reason for the variance there are two variances I I want ah here here and color these in to be descriptive at this range uh the original construction position of the house is a Patty corner it's not quite 45° 30 60 perhaps that's skewed uh it's posing a quite difficult situation it's a single family ranch um the home is uh with the garage included 1700 square feet uh living space is about 1,200 some odd square feet um it is uh undersized for the properties undersized for the communi other size for the it's compared to the other um constructions in the area uh we're proposing to you know on this footprint for the majority anyway uh to basically chop the root go up and convert to a colonial sty um to do this have no choice but to seek these Varan and the situations that I have previously explained to you of creating this hardship because of the position of the home it's creating these two triangles um that are uh encroaching on the front side your setback to go ahead and add square footage not to do that would basically mean to take these triangles and fill in the gaps it would be a worse effect and a detriment to the area they don't fit architecturally almost I'd have to say professionally nearly impossible unless you like to live in a you know triangular shape bedroom and so on so forth so because of the original position of the house the undersized lot it's creating what I consider to be just ministerial in size and encroachments we have no choice to go up and to have a piece of construction and square foot that are in character with the the rest of the community and the neighboring you know residences we um have this uh condition uh impervious and building coverage for well performing other setbacks that require 50 we have you know more generous uh setbacks but in the area around the corner uh we have these two small encroachments uh in furthering U the review over here um in terms of building materials uh there would be a quality material combinations of stone and Hardy plank uh for the uh the main elevation um mechanical equipment and lighting uh it's very easy I've depicted back in the corner uh behind the garage back of the home there won't be visible Street where air conditioning units will be in my estimation perhaps uh 40 feet if not greater to the rear yard setback um sewer connections and so on they they we have gone and investigated we've uh taken a look at them they're all in serviceable condition there's no issues with water for seage um this proposed construction will not be changed in water course will not be changing drainage any position of the home entry of the main uh elevation entry to the garage curb cuts and so on again position of the home stays the same it's basically your standard data level uh and in note 73 New Street catting BN into this property already has a similar situation built in fact where it's the same uh a skew cting Corner type of construction but they have a so we're not really asking for anything what house number has that 73 New Street under the garage it's a similar situation it's not a full Colonial it is split but nevertheless it has that b so to satisfy uh ship uh shallowness or shape of the subject property I think it's very clear uh topography doesn't seem to Poise Poise any uh hardship but it's the original position of the home it's the size of the lot that makes it issue to expand this the house presly occup right excuse me the house is pres not occup mrem no uh Mr Clemens um has had this uh in his wheelous for a while now he has suffered a loss spouse it's delayed him have to put this on and off he wants to go ahead and it's been yeah it's been gutted sitting there the owners the neighbors have uh atass you know when you're going to finish the home is not exactly in in disrepair I mean you know the the lawn is cut and it's presentable but not exactly satisfaction I think the neighbors they're very eager there hasn't had anyone uh in opposition in in U you know against this they want to for sale excuse me it's the for sale uh okay well because because what I'm looking at an email address here it say broker okay so it is for sale okay so then who's maybe maybe yeah that's I'm confused here like okay so we to speak so are you are you planning to provide Tes okay do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to provide as the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth would you please state your name for the reference Lou and your affiliation with the applicant is you are you're the architect's colleague no no I am a a close personal friend of the homeowner L Clemens and and um Lou is going to allow me to purchase the home um he's a very dear friend he purchased the house in 2007 with his wife Lynn uh in 2009 they made plans they had several sets of plans to redo it and she took ill he cared for her for many years and she passed away and he's held on to the property he's taking care of the lawn and whatnot the entire house is gutted there's there's no heating there's no water at this point you know there's a concern to get something done with the winter coming and um uh Lou and I have been colleagues and I am going to work with him to complete this it's it's a heartfelt um project uh for both of us to do this um for both of our spouses and not to get into the person end of it my my husband has CTE this is giving me something to look forward to his wife just passed away he wants to see this completed we've decided to partner together um and and and see this make it a a beautiful home and um you know a home that Allandale and the neighborhood will be proud of it's sweet neighborhood it's a real sweet neighborhood and um it's really a uh a project that that um we we just want to see it come to fruition you know it's not practical as it is it's just such a tiny little little house and um I I am a real estate broker I manage Christie's office in Camis and I know the real estate in Allandale passionately and personally and this will be a great value to the neighborhood property values will be raised by what we're going to do to this house we're not doing anything ostentatious we're looking to just put a second floor on it make a beautiful beautiful home I mean Lynn his wife even has the kitchen cabinets the kitchen cabinets are in boxes in in the house there so um when I say it's hardship you know the the house was built in 1959 and um I I don't know what the setback laws were then I I've owned a por of property myself so I know that the side yard is also a front yard which comes in to play here um uh I I it just I I mean it just makes sense there two little spots that don't conform and and I think that we we pointed them out you know very very clearly um and we've done everything by the book um we just want to make a beautiful home um and give me a project and give him satisfaction you know but also as far as the neighborhood this is certainly going to improve the neighborhood there's an old wooden door on one side of the house right it's an if you if you guys went by you know when we sent the plans over you'd see that it's an eyesore um there's overgrown Shrubbery uh and and you know we're going to do beautiful landscaping um we're going to repurpose the blue stone um we we just have a vision here and um I I I it's just going it's just going straight up and there are other homes all around that are too story homes yeah I think that's the concern that I have anyway it's um you know it is a smaller home on on the property is p Corner position that way and it looks like it's just this big box then right there and it's it's got to be so close to the street that when you're you you see it looks like it's going to be right in your face there's not a lot of architectural detail that kind of makes it um cozy and cute as you as you kind of said it looks just very so so the plans do do have for a front porch ande Landscaping I've already met with one landscaper to put arities along the one um side there to give the backyard privacy um the pl would like to put um architectural detail over the windows um I don't know I guess you could see them on your plan what's that cool yeah believe me we're looking to make it very beautiful we're going to put some Stone on the front down at the base under the windows um it's going to be it's going to be beautiful my professional opinion this particular property inevitably this application or the next order or so on or so on it's slated for this type of SCP footage develop you know it's it's it's it's in the need of I have one question this is more Technical and procedural sure the applicants sign the application I understand why Mr Clement's not here you're effectively his proxy as his expert witness yes you are purchasing you are purchased under contract or you intend to acire under contract you're under contract to purchas this property yes so ultimately it's going to full on you to implement these improvements if this board voted to approve the application LA with any conditions in both absolutely okay um I may have more questions for you sir but that that's it for the moment I think okay it's it's it's it's relatively atypical the applicant's not in the room and there's not an attorney that in that case so I did I did ask I did ask if uh I've been working with lindar on all the applications and I did ask if blue needed to be here um blue is in his uh uh early to mid 80s and he just does his TFC and so I I was told that he did not have to be here um and and so consc prox conditions sorry if there conditions hold that we agreed upon concern is my concern is your your level of standing to speak on behalf of the applicant Miss Luciano has none as far as I'm concerned legally speaking um you're a lay witness um and there's very little legal value to your testimony man you give context and color but but beyond that there's not much um you sir have put on the record this sworn statement that you are here on behalf of the applicant and the applicant is going to be agreed to be bound by any conditions that are imposed upon the application through your testimony and agreement tonight at the moment you know that's what we're going to have to take okay well I mean if they're architecturally based they're they're not they're going to be application wide based so they could go beyond the scope of architecture okay you know for instance we've talked about Landscaping improvements already um they're members of the public here I don't know if they're going to speak at all and if they do if it's for or against the application but but there could be more discussion points and conditions that come from potential neighbors and members of the public this evening so it's again it's just a little atypical that the applicant's not in the room and if there's not there's typically an attorney on behalf of the applicant so you understand that anything you walk away from tonight if there is a resolution it's effectively the onus is on you to agree in Totem on behalf of the applicant right who's not here above and beyond the architectural skin and floor plan because we're here on the application right okay yeah the right the the rights and the conditions know transfer in peret the runs with the land um so that's going to apply no matter who if they want to build this improv if they want to build something different yeah I have just a question if I'm looking at satellite image it looks like there's one two three four five sort of trees that overhang the existing property I don't know the height of the trees now but if you add a second floor you have to cut those trees back the rear portion of the I'm looking I'm at all of it frankly I'm looking at branches hanging over that's always a part that's always a part as you go up over here they'd have to be treat they have to be trimmed uh the can have to be raised that's a normal part of Maintenance do do any of the trees towards the back need to be removed as you go up looks like they're hang um the town has already told L that he has to remove two or three trees he's already gotten the estimate for having that work done and that will be done do you know which ones those are um no because I'm wondering if the removal of those trees separating your property and your neighbor's property to the right are going to compromise the Privacy as you go higher I do not know which probably something that's a preexist condition Mr CL who hasir right but you're testify for him tonight right so we're asking questions about which trees need to be removed in it's not clear which trees need to be removed so how can we forward if we don't know which trees and that's not on Rec it was the you have to propose a landscape plan that would be a typical something we ask if you're going to remove trees if the town tells you that there's a a dead tree that's one thing but this application do that so we could ask you rep Place those trees we could ask you to do that and say no application process any specific trees well I mean we'd have to see you'd have to propose something You' have to propose a landscape plan so we see what's existing and what you're what you're planning to do I mean obviously you're you're increasing the size of this house on very small piece of property there's going to be trees that you're going to have to take down so we don't know that're we're usually presented with an application is presented with a hardship in this case you guys it's the priority the passion project which I get but you can renovate this house and make it a passion project for us to engage in dialogue where it may or may not impact the community is difficult you're you're coming up here and story sounds great but ultimately the varant is going to live with in perpetuity with the with the property so for us to be here and and have to listen to what this could be and and be stuck with a corner loot where you're doubling the size of the house and you are going to impact the trees you're going to impact the Imp purish there's a lot that goes into it I could tell you I don't feel Comfort on this there no I'll tell you 100 perent you don't feel comfortable because at the end of the today it's a speck home and although it sounds like you're going to take all us consideration and what the neighbors want to do ultimately it's going to be sold for the highest paying person we're not up here for anyone's benefit we're up here to follow the guidelines and rules that are before us and this variance whether it architecturally doesn't work that's not what we're here to look at we're here to look at the hardship and there is no hardship you're buying something that potentially you want to double the size of and we have to I guess buy into the story that you want something to do well if the house is in disarray there's a lot to do here to gut it out redo it and make it a beautiful Ranch so it doesn't matter doesn't matter it worked for many years for someone I'm just telling you that I don't feel comfortable with what you're presenting you may agree disagree but I'm going to tell you what I what I feel and I've been doing this for almost 20 years um I I spoke I can't remember his last name right now but the initial gentleman that I spoke to Anthony in the um zoning department um he he was the one that that told me that um the house was built in 1959 and placed on the property and it's placed on the property beautifully so that it does face that corner so that all that all the houses sit around like that and that the zoning setbacks changed after 1959 and that that would qualify it as as a hardship um so I I came in here feeling came in here I entered into this T project feeling very confident that we we were going to be improving the neighborhood by bringing a family into Allandale um uh and and it it does it it it easily calls for a a second story I I bring 28 years of of real estate experience to this um it is a firsttime project for me but I I do know the industry and um this would not infringe upon any of the surrounding houses I've taken a good hard look at it you could look at Google Earth yourself to see that that it would uh truly fit in with what's being built in in not only Allandale but in this particular neighborhood with two houses just recently on the market one still under contract that um that that really fit fit in with with the same thing here um but you could also easily someone can come along knock the house down and fix all the imperfections and not worry and and maybe have less of an impact on the property you're trying to Ming entire found and move an entire Foundation what is that yeah we got knock downs we have the whole time I mean what what is that you're not doing it because economically it doesn't make sense when you resell it it's I'm looking to to something good here with my with with my so what you have we we can't sit here and and and approve an application based on what you're giving us I'm just telling you that it doesn't work I I think you're missing at least one component here above and beyond and you're hearing good feedback from the board this is something an applicant wants I don't know how of you've been in the process of these board hearings but this is what an applicant should hear is is what the board's concerns are before you put it to a vote I think you have a technical issue before you even get to a vote I can't recommend to the board that they voted this application of the applicant pres there's no attorney here on behalf of the applicant um the architect is not an appropriate or typical applicant representative when the applicant is absent from the room in the hearing process completely um a purchaser under contract can be an applicant but you are not on this current applications Mr yeah no and I was I was mis so um well you know applicants typically come to hearings um the other item and this is for your consideration is we're talking a lot about hardships you're using that word a lot the boards take the board can take notice and has on prior applications uh notice of hardships when a property has unique configuration topography and the like statutory hardships neither of you are professional planners so your testimony as to what isn't is not a hardship is only going to go so far legally for the board's consideration be aware of that as well okay so what I think perhaps you can do this evening Mr Kraus m luchano is um continue to direct testimony if you like you will not get to a point of deliberation to receiving to the board Because unless the board wants to um you know supersede my recommendation and vote you're not get to a vote this evening we have members of the public here I think once you conclude your direct testimony we open it to the public we see what if anything members of the public your neighbors potentially I assume um have to say and I think you're coming back to another meeting and my request is that at that next meeting the applicant be with you in this room that's up to you uh I mean you've got variance proofs you've heard the board members very pragmatic resistance to some of the asks already tonight and we don't know we've got a room full of public here you're the last applicant I'm safely assuming some of it might not be warm and fuzzy commentary but we'll see um planner is up to you but a planner is the expert witness that can testifies the various justifications not a lay witness not an architect not a civil engineer par plan would be recomend definitely help if I can make a suggestion been doing this a long time I always I always try to be helpful to the applicants a plan B would be nice but don't say that this is your one and D is there another option is there a smaller addition is there something else that you guys looked at and don't look at it from a financial I want to make money because I'm sell it everything look at it as this works this will this will benefit the neighborhood this will benefit the community that's what we want to see I mean I agree with the mayor and I agree with patrino it's a lot for this small piece of property and yeah it's in a tough spot where it is I'm not denying that it's in rough shape sure the neighborhood would love to be fixed and and change but to do what you're proposing in my opinion and I agree with Mr matrino I would have a hard time granting that it's too much if if you look if you look at the way the house is positioned on the property is a tremendous backyard it's so big up into that whole back corner there that doesn't help the box that you're putting on yeah so I'm just I'm just asking you from take a look if there's a different proposal you can put together something else and and is it possible to send uh the renderings to any of the people that might have objections to them I think that would probably that's that's always right to talk to your neighbors absolutely have a conversation with your neighbors and Rel if they were to see you know what what the outcome is going to look like might a good Vis so your direct testimony for is included yes so the board Contin ask their questions and then we'll go to the public and then we'll we'll go from there and then and then our next steps are to make it make another another we'll we'll schedule that tonight when you leave we we'll confirm the new dates so everybody here in the public knows next couple mons Micha please yeah I mean I think i' heard a lot of comments from the board members I think the fact that put in the Second Story on this house maybe having to eliminate some trees I think is something that a good point on whether that impacts neighbors area particularly since some of that addition is not it I guess know after going out there and taking a look at it do you know can much of the house be SE your opinion that you know we're not going to get into this and all four walls are going to come down will sustain that that's your profession as an artive they have because to I guess I guess the question I'm asking is I've seen this happen before where you get into the construction and next thing you know we're building on the same for existing walls and everything comes down to end having clean slave because of the condition I guess my question to you is why you prepared the plans are you confident from an architectural standpoint that those existing walls can be sa build up I don't see any reason whats excep window open theate I I I understand that just looking in the window you seeing the condition of the existing house like I had a concern that inadvertently the house is end up getting knocked down then you haveu not it's it's a St it's it's surprisingly sturdy hats and branches actually have the best basements and Foundations as well that is um then you know if this you're gonna have to deal with drainage anding grading yours similar to the other applications that you I it wasn't clear to me when I when I went there and looked exactly how the uh garage would work it look like one garage Bay that you're proposing is just doors at a different elevation yeah we're it's about four in off we're going to move the wall that separates two sareet of pav equal take a look at the I what's what's there now it was it was it's not a slab yes there's a slab uh it was a makeship room I think uh it was they used call it a sun windows preas and I I guess the other question I have is you know as you as you put together the architectural plans building to you take into consideration window locations on the second respect to this well the majority of the the majority of the windows and so on know they're well beyond the setback Ian SE 19 now um if there you know um I guess short answer is no and when you're saying there's a 19 foot setback that's to the existing Foundation but your proposal have it over is that correct no I correct it's 3T extension in the back a SC will translit to about 2T so that 19t setback will will will translate that 17 ft here is proper window window I think it's I think where the engineer was going was in proximity to where it faces the neighbor's house yes I understand I think that that's what I looked at pass many times look at it from different angle there is half that's going to be pretty close to that property line so dep where the windows are going was there any consideration of face the house they could line up with another window Pap that's I think that's where he was going have to be redundant but did you look at it all was this the only you guys in your opinion just douze this I grew up with so I know I have some concerns eyes are the overall placement the placement is the placement but fact that you're just going going up to a square box I mean if you if it wasn't a complete doubling of the house and maybe it was a portion skewed towards the rear of the property and was you know more like a colonial I might not have an issue with it but the way you're proposing it the way the property is the the size of lot proximity the house right next door I have some problem if you had an alternate suggestion like this works this is something it would be it would be nice to know that the fact that you didn't give it any thought about anything other than this it's it's an issue well there was there was one thought with the square footage the the POR of the house I mean look that's an it would be nice to see that not saying that you're help for that but to know that you gave it some thought know that there's other options rather than this is what you got take it to leave and to to the border to the we did contate doing 23 or approximately 23 it wasn't Ying home office sizes it's it's basically a 1600 1700 it was compated we didn't I said we come I have go ahead and yeah I think Mr patrino is point starting with a very small ranch that we deal with I think it's unrealistic to have to address the hardship you're not addressing the hardship problem and for us to vote on this we have to we got to be presented with the facts where we can understand the hardship that's the problem here I don't know how else to tell you you don't present this and and prove the burden where you have the hardship it's hard for us to you're saying the hardship is what's the hardship what's the hardship that you're we're not hearing youing evidence what's the hardship I I still haven't heard the hardship all I heard is that you're building a passion project that potentially you're going to sell to someone to give them an opportunity to live in we know that Town's good it's great we all live here we love so what is the hardship placement of the what are the options that's what we're we're trying to guide you through this the option A you presented B knock it down C offset the addition there are options if you guys are not understanding that and we're trying to see you in the right direction but you just you know you're like right now it's like you're focused on one thing which I think don't think you're understanding the process fortunately and maybe if you had a land use attorney who could guide you in a better Direction it would be certainly helpful professional planner who is educated in this type of stuff certainly guide you in the right direction could be different the hardship dictate a 1848 probably approve that by that just go straight but again again okay thank you all right again uh as you've heard me say in previous uh applications I invite the public to come out for comment you state your name um and provide comment on everything that you've heard for this application how question thank oh yeah yeah yeah please thank you please last name sir will you be offering testimony now or just question this if we're going to testify we're gonna swear you in okay you may go back and forth so why don't we just swear you now Mr cby you swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth whole truth nothing about the truth please proceed sir excuse me can I just get your address again don't the house question old bo watched that I cut I blow every something I think I speak my neb good news no mention I would respect dway it's the wonder if somebody got hurt I'm not here to talk about not turned out there is construction debr there there is stuff have to stare at backyard a bicycle a lawn mower a snowblower so whatever happens what get I explore this Bo to make sure that conditions are imposed and for because the history you know pass this is not going to go well okay and again I respectfully suggest I'm glad you're here I want something more than something that happen passion project whatever project but it's got to work and it's got to be done well you have a contractor who is it aest Belo instructors I know him many many years I also work with a land attorney good friend of mine probably know her deal price all right gentlemen you know the process speak to the board offer your testimony cross examine them we we can't have the cross back and forth with you two Jets yeah yeah no I Stone found so I want I want to make sure we're preserving the record here so so Mr K if you want mind ask Mr craus the question he can identify the bulk deviations answer it to the microphone just so we captured off the was confirmation of one of these setbacks correct just get the East Elevate the East uh site plan right set is that is how I have it depicted as 68 feat so we orent the project because it's Corner L we have two front a rear and a side our our engineer can confirm whether or not you calculated properly I mean Mike I mean know you review this and yeah I mean I I looked at it and I reviewed code officials it looks like have stre to have 35 don't have a lot area deficiency 15,4 c, not being impacted by the a deficit and then I believe that 19 foot setback is actually the Side Y because it's a corner line and additional gross building area and the enhanced side yard setback would require a 22.1 foot and hand side you want set back further putting that corner and this is all memorialized Mr cromy and in Mr breeland's October 21st memo to the B that was my question again wasn't public the record you could you can get it from from Linda I'm sure um but but that that can be available to the public and my only my only I would have I would have to say about just approximation seven or F Fe but this this is this is an area that condition have no issue maybe you could have that dimension for the next hearing confirm scale bracket in the inro okay and and just for clarification purposes the setbacks the way the zoning office has always measured in or measured to the structure patios patios they're not measured to Pao and anyone s come upe 17 it's not Avenue ites get enough ISS as I said my sincere hope to Happ house thank you thank hey other members the public your name sir my name is Richard Brook o and address 17 are you going to limit this to questions or you going to offer some commentary as well so let's swear again Mr Brook do you swear or affirm the testimony that you'll provide is the truth the whole truth or nothing but the truth I do please proceed sir I am the immediate neighbor property and the house is Patty Corner um is rear of the house overlooks live and before I get into that I'd like to say I would love for something to happen to this F I do as Mr cromy said it's been 17 years of watching this thing steadily it was not like this 1 years ago it became this okay I've watched I've watched kids Windows police on so nobody wants their however um I look at these plans and I have a couple questions um and the way I understood it because I'm not an architect I'm not a uming the that Pao come about I'm gaing somewhere around you know I have when it rains really hard I already have water in my basement I already have that I'm woring about um impervious structures that can you know unfor again I'm not a land but I can tell you when it RS really hard um I think HP is close I think H is close um but I'm concerned also about overlooking my backyard because the houses are not side by side they're catac so that second story structure to look directly into my back to look over the that I planted um it's do a half story and all the windows that I saw in the back are basically going to look into my back so I just want to bring that up um you know I just don't want my backyard to become a c no worri right now it's not like that um there are across the street a single story home very nice home um across the street from that there is a carted home but it really doesn't apply kind my opinion much larger land um so I just want that to be brought into and consider um when the board makes their I also find this odd and it's been brought up but I just want to bring it up with a home moment that the applicant is not understand the African is um older and he does show up and stays on his things around the house um but it seems to me that I'm unclear when this house gets built who's a good out uh so I just want to Echo Mr chom's um comments that I think we need to be crystal clear crystal clear on what is going to be built here because as past this prologue I haven't heard one um you say honest comment coming out of the owner of that property 15 years 17 years he hasn't live there one day so that's my story that's what I put forward for consideration I want that house to be redone I want it to be a viable home Allendale was all about that I've raised my family here I've been a resident for 30 years I raised three boys here and I want a family or somebody to live there but I just want to be crystal clear those plants didn't show me Landscaping didn't show me [Music] any kind of if there's any kind of experior flood lights it may have showed but I didn't pick up where air conditioning unit would be a compressor um these are all things that I think we can really fleshed out especially because of the nature of the owner right and this kind of um ambiguous so I think that's it um you know Landscaping possible screening um 8 foot in my PO line for patio not not so sure I'd love that and you know I don't want factor out to become a c that's my story and appreciate thank you separate two and it's Our intention to when I there there are well over a dozen trees along that property line and he was told that he has to take down one of those one of those trees I believe is the large tree in the front that's been dead for years um all the AR vities along the tox the line are mine I cont to them uh there are several I'm going to call them you know I'm not an orist I'm going to call them scrubby secondary pine trees that I'd be shocked if they didn't come down I was kind of work I would um so that's why I think there needs to be a landscape I like to understand your your your you know privacy in your backyard there are so many trees along that line a lot of privacy between well then let's get a landscape as I say let's make it Crystal Clear what needs to be done in writing and then you know to that make sure that that happen I have no faith that there you know on on Words at this I need a plan I need it to be crystal clear and I need it to be solid need it to be moded that's all I ask all I yeah AR looked at it I wasn't sure what go this was but I did see that that was a bump out and and I saw had this concern right I don't want you know it's just because these windows going to look directly into my back door well this is some general understanding where your house might be you know this is 19 ft there's a certain space between the proper line and your home is two feet oret that again how many feet your home is like 2 feet away 3 feet away from what from the proper life no it's whatever the code okay so if it's a minimum is 15 it would make it 30 ft you know I mean this there's only two two windows back here one here and one here you know I mean looking into your backyard your backyard is way over there Mr K let me jump one second um Mr Brook Mr cacus it's your clients time and dime but a suggestion may be a cross-section to show how the neighbors would would not be impacted okay something to think about perhaps listen I invite all of you to come to my backyard and you take a look for yourself but you understand so Mr Brooke you know so what the cross-section would show would show the massing of the new structure right on on you know considered almost a threedimensional plane not flat 2D it would show the cross-section of their building and the massing your structure next to it and you would essentially get the sight line across and what you're seeing where how it all lines up so that's a good way to tell how impactful it may or may not be but at what point because it's skew I leave that to you as a design Prof I'm just saying youve heard Mr want to I'm not doing it to be a wise guy if I do at the wrong Point said no I'm not gonna have none of that you tell me like it at the front elevation in the middle of the house I'll do it exactly ascribe I think a cross-section probably taken straight from new looking down Dale is the cross-section we're talking about because your structure is CAD corner to Mr Brooks so that would be an elevation well but it's but it's a cross-section because you're showing you're showing a sight line for multiple structures you're still gonna have to different views because like Mr chomy brought up with the Landscaping it sounds great you're going to line the property with Landscaping but you have to take into consideration the sight lines for traffic can't just we we can't plant our providers around the whole property and think that it's not going to impact the the way going to on the street side be the back side it's still got to be considered right because there's not enough room and your landscape plan you're going to have to incorporate probably a couple of different views CS you're not to just pick one Mr Brooks's house is you're G to have to pick maybe two so that's why it's it's way you interpret it is the way that we're going to be it's going to be presented for us we do understand right I think rather than dictate we want I would recommend put yourself in our situation think about what we've been asking you what the residents are voicing and use your better judgment more is probably well I think I think they are but not with exactly they're not ecstatic with Mr Clemens they're ecstatic with a new project and all of us want to I just found I didn't know about this information okay they want something to happen to this property that's why we're here they want to be renovated that's why we're here they want to improve the value of the community and the integrity that's why we're here I can't be responsible for years ago Mr so I I want to respond to the board and I do listen excuse me I don't think anybody's holding that against you 15 years no but I'm just saying it it's all been about you know the lawn chairs and this and that and no no no that's not what it's it's about these plant that's what this okay okay it's about these p is the P I want something be built on that on that property be great and I agree with could be great to have something he's plan doubling the size of the house over my I want something but you know I just want to make sure that we know exactly we're comfortable with that like I would like to very respectfully offer real estate professional observation on this though um this property was on the market $680,000 property values in all you're aware of it average uh ask price is 10% over asking over asking so now you take this little ranch at $680,000 with multiple ler situation you could tap on what it actually will be selling for and then the cost of construction to renovate it and you've got a twom ranch no one buyer's a beautiful coup beautiful and it's so not every I think I'm well they're gonna be coming back Mr Brook so you know you'll have another chance to comment on want to beable to wanted to be there we on thank you sir okay anybody else from the public sir Chris Ker 189 Mr ker can we swear your way swear do you swear or affirm the testimony you provide is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth please proceed sir it's late six seconds whole application I see I mean that's the thres threshold issue and it should even be entertain number two you have Sor testimony basically an expert who Mis characterize to you because he doesn't know any better the condition of the problem you heard from Mr cromy Mr Brooks what the finally if you just look at the house Drive Bo going to know two stories is C it's inappropriate the neighborhood deserves better hey we deserve to what we've had the last 16 years but we don't deserve something to stories terms into hardship this last thing say this is a joke 72 years old I even associated with people a couple years years older everyone that has said the same thing it's consistent there not enough ranches for people who retired I would like to buy that prop and just live there that's what the property is cying out not hardship oh I could only sell it for 68 well if you hold it for 450 you'd have someone come in and renovate it and it would be a real J because it is great name so things just don't make sense uh doesn't pass the spell test should have been entertained was the lack of stand well I'll come at the next to Legal Point Mr Keller the applicant does have standing to prosecute the case oh the applicant does yes well the application was filed it was noticed an affidavit was served so the applicant does have the right to be in the room tonight and be represented by experts caution to the board was not to take action or deliberate until the applicant is here because this is it's a little gray and fuzzy as to truly who can agree to be bound by condition to the approval m luano is effectively a lay witness and you know companion of the applicant as far as I'm concerned at best and not an applicant or this is the applicant's expert witness so there is standing to prosecute the case they're coming back to continue this if they want um and if they do the applicant was instructed to be here at that future public proceeding right accept that testimony included nont was that's what I I don't anything he says AR don't I can't sit here and have talk about who well maintain see John chomy C I don't do that John's the bigger person thank you sir okay any comment any other comments from members of the public please okay seeing none I bring it back to the board um I'm of the opinion that I I need more information and I'm very familiar with the street I live down I'm sorry more yeah I want to see top up m I do have a concern um I believe Mr brought up um please correct me from raw I can I'm gonna ask a question public anybody as I remember that you come up to a corner as you're coming up from the bottom end of sale of D okay I don't know if who can answer that I'm gonna sorry we'll bring you back that's fine yeah that it comes up significantly right now once as you go down to the bot ceiling okay and that's why I'm ra that's why I'm read toal of the property or the entire streetcape I'd like to see it of definitely property and maybe a few feet into neighboring you know properties I need you know I need to understand again I know I know I mean these people live on it okay I lived on it okay and I know that that goes down I was more concerned Mr prob about coming up at but I know coming up to that corner that sight lines are a concern huge concern coming up Dale to the corner of newre correct so I definitely wanted I I definitely want to see I I need more complete PL and I think that's what you're hearing from the board which comprises proo landscape landscapeing and and thank you Frank please options I what options yeah I mean you you you you heard you know you're the third on the doc okay I don't I don't want to very clear you know very clear you hear the questions that we asked to the other two applicat I mentioned that I mentioned that that by going second or third get very clear all rightly I was expecting the same result that the other two pro SC you know everybody's Gonna Love what we're doing there everybody's Gonna Love what what we do to the neighborhood and and I don't think anybody from the board is is we're happy to know that something's going to and and I think we share with the ne it's just what and perhaps it's not in the board's opinion we need more we need options and we need more Eng okay and then you've heard the testimony of various okay and that's around I don't know if anybody else want to add to that think just a clarification you're not giving us option to CH from giving us a different plan because I think the plan proposing now from my concern I would I would improve that so if see I mean if you wanted but I'm not gonna choose an option no I understand that okay just yeah I agree all right so you you've heard the comments Mr Kraus I mean you know assuming you're going to undertake plan revisions you're going to need the board's recommendations and guidance um when do you think you would have them prepared by roughly because then we'll try to back you into a hearing date that we'll try to announce this evening so the members of the public know when you intend to return because I don't want to presumptuously just say oh you get to be done by the next meeting and then we carry because you're not ready and all the Neighbors show up waiting to Pro waiting for you to prosecute you're not here so I guess the question is how much time do you think you would need to consider this with your client and potentially Implement any plant changes if you know it's at your peril you come back with no changes and say vot um but I I think you've heard the board well I mean you're asking for full phography of of property I have to hire the serer the surveyor who ask for a landscape PL uh I think it's One Step Beyond my pray outs so I mayard I I get it trying to figure out Tim profession so I have to prare do you still me the pl in 10 days before the next yes meeting I don't know what's Avail November 13th is really book there's four applications at night I'm looking at Monday the 16th that's my suggestion because December 18th we also have um Allen senior com back unless you think we can do that also on that night so possibly either December 16th or 18th preferably the 16th yeah we should if everybody's available yeah come back that would be who we communicate secretary yes okay 16th works for no we will no December 16 well here's the thing MRX if you want to confirm with your client before you pick a date you're gonna have to Ren notice that's what because we can't announce it tonight then right follow so we either agree on a date tonight to carry it to OB beting the need for a future public notice okay if you want to leave and confirm with your client and get back to Linda and then confirm a date you'll have to R notice because we've left here tonight without carrying another record to a date certain and you could do that too but it's just you're you're re noticing I don't know if they'll even make it to hear you we had three applications tonight and it's 10:15 we already have four for that night you will yeah certainly have to if you don't decide tonight you do have to R notice yeah in publication and submitting an Affidavit of you're basically starting from scratch another no no no notice notice no we're just talking about sending out the letters and putting the ad in the paper November 16 and the owner would have to be present that night also okay uh we will we're not going to commit tonight we're going to let you know if so we we will Ren notice I understand that process okay all right so everybody that's here will get another notice in for a no night well yes it it it will be on our application if not you know good Lu to the neighborhood right if you don't come back you'll have to withdraw the application but but for the benefit of of the public we're not confirming a date for this matter to continue this evening so if when the applicant decides to continue and and proceed they'll be sending out new Public Notices they come certified mail you know return receive requested just like the first time um and that's how you'll get notification of when that next hearing date will be if if they decide to return thank you thank you all right next on the agenda is we open up the meeting for any other comments from the public being bring it back to any other business there anything anybody else anything okay all right motion to adjourn please by all in favor I thank you all right everybody thank you than you everybody