##VIDEO ID:QHMqnz90YMk## welcome to the November affordable housing trust meeting we have a quorum uh so let's uh go ahead and begin in fact the the minutes for this month didn't make it to the website due to a technical issue so we will get to those next month I guess the the update is that Greg uh had good luck getting the support of AI to produce the minutes and so that's a uh a good tip for um the subcommittees to consider I have the transcript from from our session I haven't fed it to AI yet but uh we do need to keep up with minutes on those subcommittees so let's not let that get too far behind us um in light of um our current Quorum and uh to plan accordingly why don't we go ahead and and get to the the vote items first so Greg the first vote I see is item eight on the agenda was there another one that um you know um there is um uh the University Drive um planning overlay um that's a more complex conversation so why don't we knock out the wayfinders thing um and then um we'll go from there so um can I just go ahead and introduce that and I uh actually just drafted a basic letter today um and for context what we're we're doing here what I propose uh the trust do is um kind of formally formally codify uh support of the the wayfinders projects which we've been very active at with for many years um uh the decision on that getting written right now and uh uh the planner asked for some language um from us to include in that um so um I uh have a um a quick draft of a letter of support um which basically Echoes oh come on um um you know much of the dialogue uh around this project that we've had um uh and I and in fact I'll have to confirm that this should be addressed to the zoning board of appeals or what but I'm hoping we can just get a quick vote on this language and I'll zoom in here um and I could read it too if that would be helpful um trying to hide my ribbon here all right um so should can folks see this right now or oh okay uh questions or or comments to uh Greg's drafting uh you know substantive or if you see um uh points that he can um adjust uh on the screen right now I this is a question mostly just of curiosity but are there upcoming Street modifications um yeah there's going to be um uh I think like they're I think they're narrowing it and like striping it and and doing making not quite a road diet but I think they're going to make that street a little more pedestrian friendly is my understanding that's a good idea and I and I'll conf a couple those specifics I'll confirm with yeah with with Nate but I think the anyone else uh uh Greg just a tiny one here I think in the last paragraph if it it's wayfinder so if is that right so then an s on that one there and then a minor thing but just the last sentence of the first paragraph maybe you can after the comma and we were proud Le please um I have a few things the first paragraph um I don't know I'm just looking at where the blue lines are I don't know if that needs an apostrophe after finder before the S no let's not believe Microsoft just Microsoft being silly but then the cell is it is it Southeast Street school or just East Street school because I don't remember like I I should know whether or not it's Southeast Street there versus like regular East Northeast or where it crossed I believe it is Southeast Street but I also have a brain bug with with that so I will I will confirm it because I think the building itself was the East Street School yeah thing in the next line it says East Street school so I just think um making consistency there um and then the third paragraph last sentence feels a little wordy and maybe we could just say We'll allow res to walk to the new Fort Elementary School Great yeah good suggestions it does seem to be East Street School from looking on the web oh all right if if there are no other questions or comments do we have a motion to uh stand by uh uh put our put the trust's uh name to this letter I move Carol do you move go ahead I move to approve this letter and have Greg send it to the town like yeah I think CBA or the town okay second okay um let's uh have a a vote um Erica yes Alex yes Rob yeah okay Rob yes algra yes and Carol yes and I vote Yes so uh that is approved and uh so there there's nothing else that where we need to vote on then uh Greg well the the thing that that might um benefit from a vote if we get there would be this this uh taking a position on the University Drive housing overlay good okay um um I I hopefully that letter ended up in that packet now I'm paranoid about okay it did um so would it be helpful for me to to to give some background on that or it it it's kind of embedded in the letter to some degree but um um I'm seen a nod so should I yeah yes Greg why don't you give us a kind of put put this back on the radar for us and then we can get the letter in front of us as well for sure so Nate has um spoken to us uh about this a few times and he's at the zba tonight or otherwise he'd be here um but the the basic premise um you know is that uh you know you know after a apparently a couple years of different you know different zoning ideas and you know different approaches there was sometime last year a fair amount of consensus around um you know resoning in some centers you know uh and doing it fairly significantly so that's what uh you know Nate and and other staff members move forward with um and then the planning board uh acted on it and sent it up to the council but the specific thing um that is being proposed is a uh a housing overlay um on the University Drive Court or the map was in your the folder there but essentially from um Route 9 up to U Amity Street there um and this would uh be allow for you know significant density of um of apartment buildings um in some amount of mixed use um you which would be a substantially more you know bigger buildout than exists there right now or is allowed there right now the the the basic one of the basics idea is embedded in this is that this would be student housing um or would be attracted to those who wish to build housing aimed at students I should say um and it could suck up a lot of uh a lot of demand um for student housing hopefully than limiting that demand as it manifests elsewhere in um you know in single family homes in further Field Places um you know and hopefully making space for uh you know for you know other potentially full-time residents or you know or families to to access those resources that's the basic thinking so the um you know it's been kind of percolating it went from the planning board up to the council and the council I guess kind of I'm not quite sure what the functional mechanism is but they send it back to the planning board and then also the Community Resources Committee of the council who are about to consider it um and I have some dates and the public dialogue around it and as well as some of the dialogue within those bodies has begun to focus a great deal on some of what is there now um uh perhaps to the detriment of what could be there in the future uh um and um there is potentially some concern around uh you know around you know that that concern with with with current commercial stuff there derailing uh an effective overlay you know uh to to actually get the originally intended outcome which was to you know suck up some of that student demand um so that's kind of like the quick nutshell I think or the the medium nutshell um are there specifics or you know and I think you know the trust could just choose to sort of this you know kind of draft letter or memorandum that I made and just do something like that you could you could not you could put it off you know um but if if you know I'm I'm curious you know I think if there's consensus it's something we could act on quickly but it's something where folks have different perspectives it might you know um then we might choose to pass you know so that's kind of yeah algra please I don't know if this is what you're referring to but some of what I've been hearing has been concerned that um Big Y would perhaps be impacted which I do think is an issue that we need to consider because of the basically food desert status that most of ammer had has um and I would be hesitant to contribute to that um if if if there was a way for there still to be increased density you know from from you know going towards amid but leaving in place some of the amenities that yearr round residents and student residents living in apartments nearby would need to access um that would be my my big concern with not quite understanding where the boundaries of the overlay might be and and maybe asking for clarification around that as a stipulation to anything we would write in support Alex thank you algra um I was also going to mention the let's see in the draft letter it's the bottom of the third paragraph where it's talking about existing commercial developments I would certainly be comfortable voting today to send a memorandum showing support for the overlay but I would like to see that removed since we don't know where the boundaries are what impact it would have and I feel that might be out of our scope um that if we're promoting this it should be purely from a focus on increasing the supply of housing and meeting demand for student housing so thank you uh Carol please mine is a very um dumb question I can't find the letter I have not been altogether lately I totally admit but I'd love to see I kind of agree with the thing that people said but I I don't even know what it says so I'd like to see it before I say something I have it in front of me Greg do you as well do you want to share it yes um yeah we should I put on screen yeah let's do that actually maybe you know um uh given algra and Alex's comments and the issue you know not just your comments but the issue that you're highlighting I I wonder if what we might do is um strike that particular letter and somewhere in the in the letter say that we're we're sensitive to the um importance of access to to to food um in something to that effect um you know highlight that we we consider that a worthy consideration to be steering this process should I zoom more here this that's good what what do you mean by U make localized economic impacts through clustering of consumers just basically like you put a bunch of college kids in a tight place they'll buy stuff you know I mean like that hopefully the the you know they would patronize you know first floor and and and retail on the corners but good feedback thank you yeah um Erica please also that per per Alex's Point too um I I absolutely agree with algra and Alex um I think we need to consider um what exists there um because you know we're a holistic Community we just don't do part s and housing and um access to food is really important um but I just was going to ask a question which is um do we have any data on the North Mills area which has an um Apartments over retail spaces and students uh or residents using it because there's still lots of empty spaces there um so I mean I think you know existing commercial businesses that that have been proven I don't I think we need to consider them and I think we need to support them sure okay um yeah I mean I I think um at full buildout I think this would probably have a lot more beds than um than the North uh North Square I think you're talking about does um but it's also the case that um we're learning that like mixed use is is is not always economically viable um in in the way that our our our Sim City dreams would want it to be you know that's a national thing that's just not ammer Rob I wonder if you have any any reactions one way or the other I I agree that I I don't like that third paragraph at all I don't agree with it so okay yeah um I'm just wonder this basically assumes the way it's written it seems to assume that what is going to be built here is student housing and maybe that's true but I wouldn't mind if there was other kind of housing built there also and so I don't know I mean it does say eventually um which can help the demand for additional housing especially including student housing and that's cool but somehow most of everything else makes it sound like it's going to be students and I don't it very well may be but I don't know that I'm happy with Crossing out any other kind of acting like that's a foregone conclusion I guess is what I'm trying to say sure Greg uh if I make just quickly do you know what the next hearing or or intersection process is so yeah and and you know and one one thing we could just kind of shift this to an announcement you know and encourage folks to go in way with weigh in with their individual thoughts on it um I'm sorry I got set of I do have these dates hold on open the document um CRC uh sorry planning it will consider it on 11 November 20th likely they'll also continue it to the 18th of December um and the CRC is scheduled to look at it on the 3 of December please um I do agree with what Carol is saying and I wonder I mean because I know that one of the groups of people we've talked about needing you know hoping that housing would be developed for would be some of the staff at schools so I I don't know if if that can either be reflected in the letter that perhaps this would be an opportunity not just for student demand but maybe for Partnerships and um and staff hous and or if that's getting too into the weeds know yeah I I mean you know if I could respond a little bit you know I I think it's reasonable to just you know reflect back like what you know I think you know is fair to sort of quote as the the inciting idea which is that you know not not by letter of the law you know not not by by a regulatory obligation but by just looking at the Market um that it it it's most likely that the um the consumer segment that the market is likely to build toward especially in that spot um you know would be students uh you know and interestingly the exception to that would be you know inclusion area units that would be included in this um but but I think that you the sort of inciting idea that you know as I understand came from the council and the planning board you know was to find ways to um to capture student demand in a more localized area as they know as different parties noted it kind of spreading throughout Town um you know and you know so and you know that th you know the single family um purchases that are getting bought by investors that kind of dynamic The Hope was that this might alleviate some of the the juice for that kind of less favorable uh what what is seen by some as less favorable you know you know student housing like you know kind of distributed all across town and not really purpose built for that reason um so this overlay wouldn't preclude anybody from building other housing but you know our best guess would be that that the that's probably what what it would get aimed at by the private actors that you know would build stuff um you know but but with the but my understanding is with the express idea of of cap ing that demand a big chunk of that demand there um and as opposed to elsewhere you know um thus making space for some of those other constituencies in other parts of town so I I wonder if setting aside the immediate this question about whether we want to sign up to this letter and if so what it would say I wonder what is our area of consensus with respect to this project I is is our consensus that we we like the idea of a district where you can have high density housing and University Drive seems to be appropriate is that is that where I mean do we have a consensus around that proposition um yeah algra does that seem um so if that's the case I um I guess what we would want to be telling these uh Town bodies is um we you know find a way to do this that is responding to everything else you're hearing um but we don't have to say that second part um and so would we be comfortable just saying that we we support the um we support the the University Drive Corridor as a means to achieving high density housing and this seems like an appropriate location is that worth sending on at this time I guess is my question is that a meaningful message to try to convey do we do we add anything to the conversation with that statement yeah Carol I I think that's worth saying I mean maybe it's so obvious that it seems like it's not worth saying but sometimes those are the things that need to be said okay um so cuz that's that's to me what's important this is a place where we can have high density housing we can build things up we can make them bigger we can put more building per foot of ground or something or other I don't know quite how to say it but it's a place where there can be density we support density being there for housing and the rest of the details yeah I I don't want to see Big Y go but yeah but that at least me seems Lear okay so I I don't know if we want to use our time now to try to get to that more minimal statement and so um Greg do you think that we could try to get an A a more focused letter that that fits the the trust consensus and is is it realistic to try to approve something like that in offline method by email um certainly we can get a more streamlined uh text um I have to I have to apologize I'm not knowing if we can officially take votes via email or not Carol or Erica you have a recollection of that at all I don't think we generally do take votes by email I think usually in person we can vote on it now and um uh and um and basically ask for any objections and if there are none then it goes out how about that what we can do is uh we can actually uh vote on um feeling comfortable that yug Guston um would ensure and Greg would ensure that what we stated today would be in the letter and give you the ability to then make that decision and um move it forward okay let's just rephrase then for you know so um you know we support high density housing uh you know uh and we hope that um that you continue to pursue that goal um you know in the context of um you know other Dynamics which you have to manage something like that well I don't even have to say the other yeah I'm sorry I'm talking too much just no no yeah I think you're right Carol Alex please um I I would prefer if we didn't use the term high density housing and instead opted for something like higher density housing um they don't within their proposal actually classify it at a certain I I mean they give like a density requirement but they don't classify it as medium density or high density so I would prefer that we say higher density which is the language they're using in their proposal as well great and so so uh yeah Rob please um I'm a little uncomfortable with this uh I apologize but I don't mean anything personal but but the the tone of the of the third paragraph is really reminiscent of of uh previous planning director and and I think I'm not sure I'm sure I'm not the only person who will read it that way so I I really do not want to see that kind of tone that that kind of um uh discussion of of motives and and um uh biases in in a letter that comes from us so so if if we're if people are sure that that's not going to happen Okay well I mean yeah what let's just delete it right now um and um um I mean I I think and what I'm hearing is that what we're really comfortable saying is we want to reaffirm our our commitment to expanding housing and that we support the um the the vision to um introduce higher density housing on University Drive is that that that that's that's about right so I think this can be a very short par you know one par paragraph sentence and just remind them we're we we support what you're trying to do and the subtext is figure out how to do it in a responsible way no okay sure okay so um the um let me kind of restate that to see if if someone is comfortable moving to um uh kind of uh Empower um Greg and I to um draft this and and send it out um the the statement would be that we um uh stand behind uh cre adding housing um uh in in Amherst it's sorely needed and we support the vision to introduce higher density housing to University Drive I like it okay so can can we have a motion to um get a letter out to that effect that that kind of leaves everything else out I move that Greg and Greg and uh gastone write that letter as gastone just described it okay second do we have a second I'm ready to second it but I saw Alex's hand up sorry yeah Alex please go ahead yeah um I wanted to Echo the sentiment of Rob um I don't mean this with any offense intended but I don't know how comfortable I am agreeing to send out something that I haven't read in its entirety yet and I would be much more comfortable if we had another chance to look at this okay um yeah okay um let me um um let me uh let me kind of draft something in the background here um uh what what do we have next on the agenda and we can come back to this um uh Carol how you doing I'm okay go ahead okay um so we are I can give a quick uh there's a couple other Town updates um I can get into actually um um so um yeah you want to compose and actually some of this gu some might be familiar with um so uh um also in planning board land um the um the planning board has cons begun considering the um Adu bylaw which um needs to be updated at least modestly in order to match recent State legislation and sync up with that um it looks as if their initial swing at it will really be fairly narrow um and address this the basics of State compliance um um and then possibly there there might be a window for another round of updates or if if developments happen soon maybe within this round I think the previous scenario is more likely but the state's going to release some regulations um uh interpreting the law which which might color things a bit more um and then a very specific piece of that which the state regs will probably almost definitely address but then there could be um uh could be courts might address um what unreasonable restrictions means uh in the law um um because um that's that's that's kind of undefined to some degree um so the remains from the state some some ambiguity there um so locally like what that means is you know as we you know as we develop this regulation there could well be be uh the big change for ammer is the state law now precludes the uh requirement of um of owner occupancy um in either the the principal residence or the accessory dwelling um so you know so folks responding to that might um wish to impose uh other restrictions um in order to get the outcomes that they want um and it's you know it's not knowable you know how the planning board might respond or the council might respond to that um but you know things that you know sort of you know require extreme setbacks or you know put you know owner occupancy limits or this kind of thing um could run a file of eventual state regulations you know and also if they're too extreme possibly hinder um development of these so it's a thing to keep an eye on um so um that will probably get um the planning war will refer to council and then come back down just as the the University Drive overlay uh will um that's a little bit further out there's not really dates for that yet they they've done I guess like a first reading at the planning board Carol question um yeah I just wondered you said that they will do something or other and then maybe something or other will come in a later past and I just could you say a little bit more about what the first something or other the planning board's intention is to do a fairly modest update that really just does the bare minimum to match with state law um uh but then it is possible that uh well it it is definite that the state will come out with regulations they might do that and then the planning board might further update it but if they're still engage in their first round while those regulations come out then it'll be one round you know uh so it could be two rounds it could be one round probably to um or it might be that they get it right the first time and the state Rags come out and they don't need to do any additional updates that's a possibility as well um thank you um so yeah so that's the kind of of the Adu bylaw update question um there are uh downtown design uh uh processes happening there's going to be some meetings and forums in December um so if you're interested in that have a lookout um for those announcements uh wayfinders uh the you know the project we just approved um they should soon have a decision from the zba um uh and then as far as you know there there is an issue that emerged um which we can maybe learn from and then apply next time but there's a specific thing um I think our our education and engagement group might might chew on we talked about this a bit um but helping to reconcile the Conservation Commission who um might be pushing for better Wetland protections on one side and the zba who might be pushing for more parking um on the other side um and that that puts those things are basically in direct opposition to each other um and there might be an opportunity to um to sort of bridge between those two bodies and uh and reconcile that um if that Dynamic emerges in the future in future projects um but it doesn't seem to be uh like it's going to derail things um uh here in this case but um it's loaded some things down though is my understanding and and made for some some head scratching uh so umh so we don't need to act now but um just maybe a a preview for ways that we could get in front of stuff in the future um and then uh yeah that's kind of um the town updates other than housing production plan stuff which we can get into in a couple minutes here um um yeah okay um Let me let me kind of um maybe we can finish this together in in short order um uh we are just get here we go um so I you know as I was writing I I I I feel like we almost kind of have to have to say explicitly that there's a lot here that we're not getting into I and that's why I was trying out such a phrase um and so I wonder what um uh um what what reactions you have and if we can finish drafting this together in in short order yeah Carol why do we have to say expectation of housing demands in Amherst why do you have to say anything about deploying demand why isn't it just in strong support of the expansion of housing options in Amherst um period the the the only reason was to um uh kind of allude to the expected impact on affordability that was the that was the that was the thought process but I I I don't think it's critical um so you know that that could go or not go I guess if I get I mean it would be nice to say something about of uh the expansion of housing options in Amherst to hopefully better serve a wide range of people or something I just don't like supply and demand I would like to get it out of there all right um um I mean you know maybe this is maybe this is really the the what's the kernel of our of what we uh agree on is that does anyone see that we agree on and and feel it's important to say anything that goes beyond this in any substantive way uh Alex yeah okay I think that it could be be really helpful with something this short to strengthen it with referencing our own action plans and goals um the one that comes to mind is 1e which talks about exploring ways to strengthen the development ecosystem in emmer with Innovative or new programs or policies which I think this Falls in line with um if we're expressing support for this without giving a lot of additional context which I'm okay with I think we should connect it to our ongoing work and basically just say we alignment with it and leave it at them okay other other other comments or or reactions so um if what we're talking about is a letter that makes this very simple point and um you know adds a reference to connect it to uh some aspect of our um of our strategy the development strategy and and perhaps other parts of it um do we think that it's valuable and that we would like to send such a letter okay um um so I would would you you know Alex before I think for good reason you expect Express hesitation to proving an unseen letter if what's unseen is exactly how we tie it into the strategy um would would but we're basically agreeing just to say this um and and and then pointing out that this fits our our stated strategy and in in a way that's aligned um are we now within the space of something that this uh trust could now approve without being finalized and if so uh yeah I mean I guess Alex I'll I'll put it put it to you first is that does that would that be copae yeah I think I'd be comfortable with that I I apologize I don't mean to be I think it's I think you were I think you were right um um this is It's a s you know if it's showing up in the in the um Gazette and in in the Indie it's a sensitive matter and the community has to figure it out we're we're just one voice and we stand for one one one area of issues yeah Carol can oh you're you're muted sorry we write we write to now that mute thing is okay uh we write to reaffirm our strong support for the expansion I might say this expansion okay because it's not just gen this is a particular expansion in a particular place and this is what in this moment we are saying we want to support okay Rob thoughts or suggestions no thoughts I like voice 12 okay okay all right so um uh uh C can I ask for one modifier that just goes back to our earlier conversation um I think I heard some consensus on the idea of you know supporting higher density uh homes yeah could we say you know so insert the connection to the trusts you know strategy onee whatever it is you know and we think you know uh adding higher density homes in this area um would represent such a creative strategy or whatever the wording is so so the sentence might be after this policy or after the um the insertion of the the goal language um we believe higher density homes as proposed in this plan represent such an innovation or whatever the language is yeah to be con connected more more more uh more cleanly but um uh uh thoughts are or reactions to to Greg's um what you know the the bringing back the recognition that we're not only supporting more housing but we support High higher density housing as a means to achieve this end okay and so um uh could we have a motion if if that's where the trust is to um approve uh Greg and I finishing the letter within the confines of what you see before you um so what what remains is just the technical drafting uh Alex all right if I have a a draft I've been working on on in on one in the background to can I propose it now as maybe a substitution to what we have it's less of a substitution it's more of a a completion of what we have okay let me um stop sharing okay go ahead okay um let me see if I can share screen maybe um yep can you all see the the drop could you yeah now if you can uh zoom in so it widens is that better yeah I mean I guess my per my issue is I don't see how what here is about the development ecosystem I I I'm missing that linkage so maybe you can spell that out yeah um so I think the for from my reading um a zoning overlay is a new policy that I would consider a new policy that strengthens the development ecosystem by increasing the amount of land for developers to build higher density on I mean there's not much of it in town honestly um but if other people don't agree with that readly remove that I I I think I just I understand ecosystem to be the players that are connecting here um and so I I that's why I don't have I don't know what what changes with how it will get developed um that's why I I wanted to look through the strategy to see what was um the Clear Connection that I could see and development is an obvious one and so I I'm I guess I don't see the development ecosystem as being implied by the overlay well I think you know and we don't have to say it but I think it to the degree that it it it pulls energy from less Preferred Capital Outlets into Preferred Capital Outlets like that streng that that gets to ecosystem to some degree doesn't it I mean you you rob you uh you were in the um in the group that came up with this language who who who else was in the subgroup with Shelly um so I I think uh you have the right of on that that when the language was developed it was about um it wasn't looking toward zoning it was looking towards um making it possible for different kinds of of development different kinds of of players to to participate so so so I I I agree with you but I think I think you could stretch um the meaning of ecosystem to include a new overlay but it wasn't wasn't the original intent okay all right um I kind of agree with what Rob just said it's not at all what popped out at me thinking about making higher density place on University Drive it wasn't it was it was use of kind of use of zoning to make more things possible but I don't I don't know and I I I actually Alex I think it's important for us to understand how this thing that we're doing connects to our goals but I'm not sure that we have to tell everybody that we're talking to how it connects to our goals I'm not sure that feels to me like an important thing to be in the letter anyway we need to understand that but yeah I don't know well but thank you for preparing these these other paragraphs as well um you know I was I guess given the circumstances going to go for something leaner but um uh what are your thoughts about paragraphs 2 and three um folks would would you like a letter to have text to the effect of paragraphs 2 and three I I yeah thank you I think um I like both paragraphs two and three and again I think we can leave the one F out just the trust action plan um yeah we leave that out but I I think this puts out our principles and and what we are looking for more so I like the way it's written okay other other uh comments or or uh or or aemotion um to uh to approve the draft that we're looking at are other comments or questions or motion I yeah go ahead Carol I don't like this we find alignment with this proposed overline between or something we find alignment be the the language there seems slightly awkward to me I don't know I mean so what I really was wanting to make sure is that we're we're comfortable endorsing University drives in ideal location I get that that's a stronger statement than then so is there consensus to say that is I guess what I want to make sure about um you algra Rob is that you're everyone's good with that I mean I think it's better to say the strongest thing we feel comfortable saying and and I was kind of going to a lower common denominator than we are at so that's better to be a more robust uh so uh do we do we have a motion to uh uh send this letter on to um the the next body in action here I make a motion to send this body um with the strikeouts strike out all the way from goal to the end there uh and then the other goal if so I make a motion that we go ahead and send this letter um anybody want to Second it thank you Erica yeah do we have a second that's that's a second R yeah okay great um so let's uh let's take a vote um algra um I'm gonna abstain is there something that we could remove to convert your exstension into uh yes so I think my only concern is still not quite understanding if Big Y is included in the boundary that we're talking about or not because I have significant concerns about removing food access to the community do we know that an answer to that Greg because you know I'd also be comfortable saying that um that we we um um you know that we that we have that concern or that we're we're sensitive to other important considerations before sure so um so the the prop The Proposal they're currently considering does include the ammer part of the Big Y complex that complex however spans ammer and Hadley um uh so but but one of the things they're considering is you know is is that question right so so unlike the sort of thrown together draft which I I I started with you know this is to me a bit more narrow and a bit more thoughtful you know so you know so I think this this takes no position on on I think this allows for them to continue tweaking boundaries for example whereas maybe what I wrote before doesn't but but as currently contrived the the proposal the planning board is looking at um does include part of the Big Y complex yeah and I guess like my issue with the language around commercial entities or whatever it however it was phrased in the first one is like I don't see this as like oh I want to protect big yse like profit margins it's I want to protect it's it's a food justice issue it's um sure not a like I I care about capitalism issue it's yeah yeah and I think I use commercial just as to differentiate from residential basically but um you know but yeah I think um I mean I you know maybe I should refrain from offering an opinion here about on what this says first you know but but I just answer the question directly that you know they're you know they're considering a map that includes the Big Y thing but they could say no we want to we want to take the Big Y plot out of this overlay um so you know that's why I had I was starting to do that phrase that was like recognizing so we could preface that we perceive with recognizing the importance of ACC of access to food for residents or recognizing the importance of access to Services some some qualifier before we say we perceive Carol well to me food it's I like saying food because I feel a lot different about the fact that we're a food desert than that were a bicycle repair shop desert or a secondhand clothing store desert I mean it's not commercial it's not that it's food so I would rather say it that way so recognizing the importance of access to is there a more elegant way of saying food to fresh food or something and recognizing the importance of grocery stores to the community that works I guess we perceive does that does that get us to something that we all um um I I don't like although because that means I yeah I'm kind of going back to Model United Nations and how they do those preambles yeah um uh um you know uh yeah I yeah I mean I would just I guess I um the it's really a phrase not that we're not writing to tell them that we recognize the importance of the food access we're carving that out of our statement um we I mean I I don't necessarily see something wrong with naming that there has been concern raised in the community about food access because I think that is right so the other way noting noting um noting concerns in the community for continued access to food food we perceive or um we see I mean um we hope you'll um we encour these and other concerns while still achieving this high density Vision we encourage you and we not hope we encourage you to consider um these concerns while we while still maintaining the ideal location for higher density H housing topologies bugs me also but whatever typologies yeah yeah I think we can just say housing all right well we um we we devolved into a drafting session but we're we're also figuring out what we mean to say please anyone feel free to jump in at any moment we're just no you're I think finish that sentence I think you've um I think you you've you've done a good job there um all right um so uh uh comments on this um uh uh I guess the the motion I'd be looking for would be to send uh a letter that is you know substantially similar to this so that we can give it a once over outside of the pressure of of the zoom drafting session to get any particular word right Greg is that a hint sorry what was my hint oh no you had your your you have your yellow hand up oh sorry was from a while ago I so uhh if if uh this is substantively pleasing to everyone uh could we have a motion to uh send a uh letter that is you know substantially similar to the draft before us so moved second yes second okay great I'm I'm I'm I feel much better about sending letter that we all agree to so appreciate that um algra uh uh Rob uh so let's take a vote um uh Rob yes uh Alex yes Carol yes Erica yes and I vote Yes um excellent so Greg thank you for getting the ball rolling for us and thank you everyone for uh sharing what you think it means that we all actually care about what the trust stands for and that's critical to what we're doing here and thank you Alex for uh driving the the draft there please go ahead yeah is a procedural question Greg how do I get this to you do do can I just email it just email it to me yeah why you c c on to for you know pie and qes but okay I just as a totally quirky thing I would love it if it didn't have the word typologies in it want to go yeah that's gonna get the X it's okay um all right thank you uh everyone let's see what we got next on our agenda um so we are production plan housing production plan um so and I believe hopefully we still have Tony here Tony doesn't give up here he is I'm so I'm gonna welcome um Tony Young to um join us here from Barrett who you all met a few months back um and so um we did send out the um the housing reduction plan on Tuesday um um Tony's going to share some highlights um but um I'm maybe it would be helpful to understand uh I should say not the housing production plan but the needs assessment um uh how many of us have had had the time to look at that I did not look at it I just review the housing production plan as it was sent to us we didn't have a whole lot of time so it's it's okay yeah I didn't look at it I can so we're we're talking about Pages um what's the number on um PDF page um starting six yeah so yeah I mean so the the all that's constructed so far is the needs assessment but well I know Tony um you know but Tony did pull some excerpts and so maybe we can have an initial conversation here maybe I'll just kind of set up um and you know the basics and Tony will delve a bit more into the overall framework but um this is a draft housing needs assessment um you all are the first folks to take a crack at it um Beyond Nate and I um uh but we'll have until probably uh mid December we can come back to this in our December meeting as well um um for some more substantial discussion too but maybe we can uh we can start here and um refresh folks on kind of what this framework is and then um if folks have feedback now we we can take some but noting um uh noting we'll have other opportunities does that sound right so Tony welcome thank you Greg um yes it's totally fine if you haven't taken a look yet um I'll just go over you know briefly some of the the details um and actually can I uh share my screen right now oh yeah can can you do you have a button there Tony for share or yeah good um okay are you uh all able to see this okay great um awesome all right I know it's just a you know pleasure to see you all again um I'm you know I just want to say that we're really excited to have reached this milestone in the the project um so know we shared with Greg um who has shared with you the uh first draft of the housing needs assessment you know which documents the current housing profile um and needs in ammer um based on various sources of data um and interviews that we had conducted um I'll quickly go over uh the sections in the draft the demographics section is a general overview of who lives in town and who makes up the um the amoris population and uh their social characteristics including Trends and projections on you know total population age groups student enrollment things like that household characteristics uh focus on um the composition of households in town um breaking down households into know household sizes ownership types um income and poverty um and then the housing market section focuses on the physical sorry the housing profile uh section uh focuses on the physical um characteristics and features of the current housing stock and the housing market entails uh the development patterns Trends on housing prices and um demand affordability gaps and data points on housing instability and lastly um the housing barriers and development constraints section list factors that limit Housing Development uh we want to emphasize that you know we do not consider barriers um that are referenced in this section as inherently negative things um for instance the uh the specialized energy code that was recently adopted this past summer may increase um construction up costs upfront but you know it'll ultimately you know Foster energy efficient construction and help the town um reduce its carbon footprint um and meet its sustainability goals um and just to give an an example all right so I just want to you know point out just a few data points um some highlights from the needs assessment you know out of many um in the draft um that stood out to us so the first being the affordability gap of $314,000 um so what this mean is you know let's say a family in ammer makes $997,000 a month um so up in this uh the table in the top right corner uh that is the area median family income um that's that was calculated by Hud um so this family can afford a home at just $285,000 um and 176 uh based on standard mortgage terms um insurance rates and uh other factors that um you know if they were if they were to limit their housing cost burden below 30% of their income so that is a difference of just over you know $314,000 between what they can afford and the median single family home price um of $600,000 in 2024 um and then we also found that there is a lack of medium density housing or missile missing middle housing there is a higher proportion of either single family homes or large apartment complexes and you know the production of small to median multif family housing had declined in the past 40 years um for homelessness data we um we looked at the point in time count from three County Continuum of Care which uh had reported that there were 74 sheltered and eight unsheltered uh homeless individuals in ammer um but that is based on a single point in time count in um in January 2023 um and further 8% of all residents in amorist um you know live with a disability and over half of them have in fact a cognitive disability um you know which suggests an importance um to design housing you know not just for Mobility impaired individuals but and also for those with invisible disabilities and highlighting the need for Universal Design principles um a couple of more things um so looking at map data provided to us uh by the gis Department um we found that 30 36% of the entire town area is protected um as open space and 15% of uh the town area in is in fact a Farmland conservation um or zone for Farmland conservation and further um looking at Wetland protection zoning and overlay districts um they cover approximately 30% of um the entire area of town so that includes uh the Watershed protection uh overlay um which is up here in the blue and the top right corner of a boundary and the aquafer recharge protection overlay districts um over the low and swamp aquafer in the the Southeastern Corner um as and additionally the flood flood prone Conservancy Zone which follows along um this River um through South ammer um so this this 30% does not include the pockets of wetlands outside of these uh Zone and overlay districts which um you know can be hard to see in this map but they're very uh very small just um just laid it out and across town and um are not necessarily within uh these three listed zoning or overlay protections so we still need to investigate further we still need to further investigate several topics um erased by the trust um back in September um so Greg had asked you in that meeting um that we were developing this draft and um asked for specific topics or data points that you would like to be included um we were able to uh find data for several of them but um there are still quite a few left standing um you know for instance the uh needs of certain segments of the population um and downsizing demand among older homeowners that will hopefully be um answered by the uh the survey results that we had just rolled out recently and sorry the the rest are just other topics um where information is uh simply not read readily available so we just need to you know dig further to find that and then we'll get to uh identifying town properties for housing um in the next stages of the uh housing production plan so please you know remember that the uh this needs assessment is just the first component of the housing production plan um so there are other elements that are missing or un addressed that are you still yet to be developed the next two components are the uh housing gold and implementation strategies housing goals will be Broad and somewhat aspirational but at the same time realistic you know on what we can achieve in the given time frame of five years um to address you know those needs that are identified in the uh needs assessment and the imple uh implementation strategies are a detailed list of actions and areas of opportunities that would move the town towards its goals so um so the goals and strategies in the housing production plan um may very well overlap with a few of those in your action plan and uh the needs assessment contains evidence to support a few of these um for instance and we addressed the social political climate regarding housing in ammer which is you know a persistent barrier to development that you know can be addressed by um you know more education and uh public engagement um and also creating at least 200 homes in the next five years is a reasonable Target um that we can include in the production plan um you know followed by you know several specific implementation items to reach that Target but you know with that said we do want to ask the trust you know for more clarity on um how these goals from your action plan might align with the goals in the production plan you know because we we anticipate that the goals in the and strategies in the production plan you know may be more a bit more detailed um and more extensive beyond the scope of the Housing Trust um and involved other Town entities um and so we would you know just appreciate a bit more guidance on um on how you would like us to navigate these two different plans um you know and to what degree you want your action plan goals U be integrated into the production plan um but that um can be that can be for a separate discussion um okay so you know invite you you know as a trust to take a wath through this draft and um know give us feedback on anything that needs correction or things that we may have missed um you know so this is the very first draft of the housing needs assessment we'll go through a few rounds of revisions um and this is this is the very first draft that we're showing to you um so please just keep that in mind um we understand that some of the data is not perfect um there are inherent limitations to the data um but we try to use the best sources we have available to us that are fairly accurate credible um and at the same time represent the sample population as objectively as possible but know because of their limitations we want to make sure to verify that information um you know with people who actually live and and uh in work in ammer um and you know the housing plan will uh greatly benefit from that from your perspective perspective okay um so you know with that said we have what we call a a comment resolution Matrix um I have uh I sent a copy to Greg who can then forward them to each and every one of you um so this form helps us organize your uh feedback in a way that um so that we can like go through each comment one by one um and make or address those uh those um comments individually and know exactly where to locate them in the document and it just makes it um easier for us and um so you know some of you have already read the draft and you know we you know we love that enthusiasm and you know but um you know we highly encourage that um you fill this form out as you go through and review the draft um if if you don't want to or if you cannot use the form in any way um at the very least we ask that you provide the page number um alongside any feedback that you share with us um you know just to again help us locate and identify the specific uh issue that's in the in the document um yes I have a question I'm trying to make sense of some of these the population numbers um it's striking to see on page uh which is it here I guess page 16 that UMass has added 10,000 students um since the year 2000 and I'm trying to rec recile that with the population of the whole town chart on page six which shows an increase of um less than 5,000 or about yeah less than 5,000 and so I'm wondering what what did the town lose 5,000 people other than the students or what what how do we reconcile those two numbers um so they're could be a couple of factors um you know many students don't exactly live in ammer so a lot of that that increase in student population are not counted in ammer um but also um you know non- students may have in fact moved out as well you know families younger families have there are data that shows that they have um that their numbers are declining so that that is also something that you know may have contributed to that discrepancy thank you Tony Erica thank you a little slow getting to my mute um I think that's my biggest challenge um I mean the we always talk about you know one of the biggest challenges in Amherst as well as a huge benefit our college students but when I read this like for example the poverty level I'm not sure we have the students in that population then when we look at that or how do we remove the students from that to see you know full year residence um and so a lot of the the data that's presented sometimes I really get confused with regards to does this include all the students as part of it and then if it does what does it really look like for uh yearround residents who are sort of permanent here um so that's that's one of the areas I don't need for you to answer it it's just in one area that I'll point out when I'm rereading it the other piece that um again I only looked at it you know I read it today very quickly um the tier one communities I know we had raised way back when that I mean at least I would be interested in comparing Amherst to other college communities um and I'm not sure that I saw that um but I also couldn't find out where the tier one when you wrote tier one what those communities were sure uh I can address those really quickly um so the first comment um yes we are we are going to or hopefully try to reach out to um certain organizations to um sort of uh help us you know identify you know data that isn't um so the data that we have for you know the poverty uh level right that's um ACS census data which you know does not separate students from non- students and it's very difficult for you know any survey um to do that um so what we can potentially look at are you know results from the survey um which can help us identify um you know income levels um and those other you know socioeconomic factors um related for uh to each demographic or segment of the population um so that can give us a little bit more insight into um you know the data that we have and um and just speaking with you know other housing organizations can also shed some light further light on like who's applying to um affordable housing um and what you know their application applicants look like um you know you know and we can sort of uh distinguish that from you know the the overall sensus data or at least have a better understanding of um the that that breakdown um and for your second concern um sorry can you quickly remind me what that was again sure sure um we had way back when asked about uh possibly comparing Amherst to other college towns versus the towns that are next to us I mean I know that South Hatley has Mount Holio but I think it's very different than Amhurst sure um yes so we decided to um when we delineate delineated the tier one communities um that was established in the previous 2015 housing market um and the reason behind that be uh behind those comparison communities is because they share a lot of uh economic activity and um you know people who live you know to be near amers um tend to um you know live uh in those immediate areas surrounding towns um but we do realize a lot of people you know commute from further away like Greenfield um and it would also be a a good um a good idea to compare amoris with another University Town um you know that that isn't so immediately uh close by so we we'll uh take that into consideration the questions or comments for Tony something that you were hoping to see here that you're not sure is in the needs assessment and um distinctions that would be useful to you any anything at all here yeah Rob please um not addressing that question specifically but that's something that Tony said near at the end of of presentation about linning uh the trust action plan with the housing production plan actually would not like to see that I would like to see you do your um your assessment independent of what we have already come up with and and um and if our plan doesn't um address what you've come up with then then we should think about changing so it should be on us not on you to to make it um fit I think um I guess very quickly I am curious how when you were developing the action plan how you as a trust came up with um 200 is that um was that I I would appreciate a little bit more you know Insight on that if inspirational we were looking for uh I mean we we had considered prior production plans and I think um you know what the numbers were prior and we were encouraged to think five years and have an inspirational number uh I think there's another word for it aspirational aspirational number I see another I think we said go ahead now you go ahead car I was just going to say in a way it's like well we know we can't build as much housing as we need and so there's no point in putting that number in there because it's impossible let's try to put something in that's aspirational as she said but that it's exactly 200 is pulled out of our ear frankly um and I think we you know we saw I think our our as a stretch goal this is these are units that the trust can play some active role in right so we allow that there will be conceivably you know other development you know perhaps you know with inclusion area whatever that we might not play an active role in that could go bigger than that number um but we thought that this was an aspirational number that you know we could play some degree of of support in in you know in that amount but it's not it shouldn't be reflective of demand and I think Tony you know we could um it'd be interesting to to see you know numbers you know if we could get there of like you know you know ammer needs you know this many more units for extremely low-income people or this many more units for um you know middle-income families and noting that that number might be radically higher than uh you know what the trusts uh um come up with um but you know as we said you the trust isn't the only operator here sure yes Carol one of the questions I have after looking at what you just presented to us 64% of our land is useless for housing it's it's wet lands it's concert whatever all those things were and and that doesn't count all the all the land that's already housing so one of the things I'd like to know from the housing production plan is what's really possible here Amherst is not any bigger than Amherst just is and so I would really like to know not some aspirational goal but what is some goal that makes sense given the actual land bass of Amherst that could be built on I'd love to know that yeah um I think we've heard uh a couple of ideas but um we will you know we will for sure get into that um in the coming months as we uh you know go or dig into you know the goals and then you know what is looking at Opportunity sites um and you know in addition like what we can what's possible what's feasible but also you know aspiring to be a bit aspirational as well um okay I actually just have one more slide um and then I can we can answer the rest of your questions but I would just like to finish this um so you know we have rolled out the survey um a few weeks ago um if you haven't taken it already please do um you and share it with everyone you know now we've got a lot uh We've gathered a lot of uh input from um you know people who live in ammer and uh you know other stakeholders but you know and in interviews and in uh inperson public meetings but um you know the survey casts a much wider net of people who don't often engage with these in-person or you know virtual Outreach activities so um it's going to be very helpful for us to understand the community around the a bigger scale um and then finally we're uh planning to hold a next public meeting in January 7th um and this is going to to uh focus on um housing goals and we'll be asking um the public to help us develop them um as as well as uh you know strategies uh to um support that so um okay uh yes if you I'm happy to answer um any more questions now Erica you had a yeah I I'm not sure I saw this but um it just goes back to what Carol said but um you know I know that the town is starting to rethink some of its properties and so hopefully that's considered too because you know the properties might have been developed such as uh decommissioning schools or other properties and and really thinking about you know some of those properties that might be developed and not excluding them um and I also wanted to say it was very thorough and um really appreciate the work that you've done so I should have started with that um but um yeah just I I think any property that we can consider um you know we don't have factories that are being decommissioned but any properties that you know our Our Town owned that are going to be decommissioned we need to think about those as possibly being developed as well of course any other questions or comments for Tony while he's with us well I'd uh like to thank you for your ongoing work and uh for for joining us tonight Tony of course I appreciate you all for having me um and yes I believe Greg you have do you have that copy that of the the CRM I I do and you know and I might um maybe we can brainstorm offline about some ways to you know to do some conversations around I I think that's really good for some of the nitty-gritty stuff but I think once people absorb the whole thing I think there might be potential for another you know more 30,000 foot conversation um you know so we can certainly in December but you know we can talk about best process for that yeah I'll get that out to them for sure okay great thank you um all right yeah that's uh I look forward to uh you know the next steps in working with you all so thank you have a good night thanks you too bye all right um so we we have I think the only other item um on our agenda is to have a quick checkin on how those subcommittees went but also before we get there sh share with you a request that came to us it's not ready for action but to get um the the trust reactions oh sorry Eric I see your hand sorry um did I miss the community Pres preservation uh debrief no oh no we we we should also do that um Shall We Begin there so um yeah Greg and I presented I I I started by just presenting uh how the statute works and uh backing up the way that we can receive funds and our strategy that we've adopted and who we are and Greg got into recent uh projects to show the kinds of things that we're doing and gave ideas about uh the kinds of projects that that are likely coming our way especially in light of the affordable housing um Act passed by the state um I guess how what would you say about the kinds of questions that we got Greg um you know some some interesting questions about you know uh who we're partnered with and you know if we ever partner with four profit entities Maybe probing a little bit um uh you know um you know and what our current resources are um request for our current balance sheet which I think is probably the same as they they have already um um you know and some questions about how Federal developments might um might affect us and you know or really affect the the partners that are building stuff that that we support um we don't really know the answer to that ultimately I you know I offered some ideas but um you know but I I'd say the receptive the reception was largely positive um but hard to read the T leaves though um yeah the the the what came at us were the questions that anyone came up with for example Greg talked about the idea of having a revolving credit line as some other communities have done and so there was a question about um is that difficult to do can you that does that raise complications or something like that um you know in many cases the questions I thought was interesting the question about the for-profit it seemed like the reaction is though he wants to make sure that we're not supporting for-profit but it actually seemed more like he's concerned that maybe we need a lot maybe we need for-profit developers to actually get the housing we need and are you going to be able to support them as well yeah I was trying to so I was trying to split the difference there a little bit not really knowing where he was coming from I mean you know and I um and there are interesting you know there are far more compelling mixed in to me mixed income models than like standard inclusionary housing you know that um some communities are doing and you know um I guess in a way we have with with you know with North Square um but uh but yeah you know I I don't know if the questions had a through line necessarily it was you know um the um the question about the inl payment did not come up at all and if if anything the um when we presented the strategy um and our goal of raising 4 million that they did the math and said oh well but you're only asking us for 500,000 and it's five years so how are you getting to 4 million and so I had to say well we're actually gonna ask other people for money too um we're going to go to the schools for money as well so um yeah I mean I I I think we got a positive reception it's good not competing with anyone else for affordable housing really that's good yeah and yeah nobody bulked at the number or anything like that so let's see um any other questions about that I I guess the tape will come out soon enough on YouTube if you want to get bored by our Q&A um uh so yeah great you want tell folks about this organization that came to us to see if we may be able to jump in to give support sure so yeah so so we got a you know informal sort of uh you know inquiry kind of probing possibility you know around um supports for um eviction prevention uh rental lers that kind of thing um you know now that the you know something perhaps Loosely echoing um what uh the town did with arpa money um presumably on a smaller scale um you know and so um you know so G G I had an initial conversation just to sort of understand the interest more and and who the different players would be um and I did a little research you know just on what we've done in the past and but I think you know the I think the idea here tonight was just to sort of take folks temperature on you know on I I guess the other the other wrinkle is it didn't seem prudent to entertain an inquiry like that not knowing what the answer from CPA was going to be um uh and that I you know that so we we decided to push off you know a little bit until maybe we had a little more insight on on how that looked um but I think you know the idea was to sort of just get a sense of you know what where folks are on the idea of um things like like non- Capital expenditures so you know expenditures other than um um Building Homes uh you know which is the trust has engaged in in in non- Capal investment before but we thought it might be good to just get a sense of of where folks are now supporting keeping people who are um on you know uh where eviction means they'll never come back to Amherst again and so preserving the affordability of folks who are living in town how do we see that in relation to our mission um what what reactions to folks have if we were going to entertain that kind of support what guidelines do you see appropriate just curious about about where how how folks see that kind of request I mean clearly it fits in within the umbrella of supporting affordable housing um but it's different from creating housing it's more about supporting those tenants who um given what happened last month with their car will not live in amher again unless they get some immediate cash support Erica um sorry I I hope I didn't cut into you algra um you know we we always talk about you know the 30% and lower under Ami um and I think you know for me this is myy jerk reaction which is is that I agree with you Guston we have a mission that includes uh maintaining people in their homes um you know the other part of it though of course I think about sustainability and making sure that you know we're helping people to get back on their feet veres um enabling them not to get back on their feet ever and eventually they will be out of their homes or out of their rental space so I mean my first reaction is this is part of our mission and I'm also thinking you know we received money from the Interfaith group on housing and so there's some money there as well and my understanding is uh from um uh hearing from one of the meetings at uh the cssj is that um there were people who applied for arper support um due to covid and some you know negative impacts of covid and they never received support around that so I think you know this is worth a conversation and worth a real uh strong discussion about um how do we do that and how do we ensure that it is supporting people and helping them to become viable in this community and stay in the community thank you uh algra what do you think um I mean I think I'm a little bit bias because my first job out of college was working in an eviction prevention program doing rental assistance but that said I think it's like the back door of homelessness you know you don't want to have people leaving a housing situation that may otherwise have been stable for them um obviously hiccups come up here and there and it's it's a way of keeping housing affordability depending depending on what the whole financial picture looks like um I think it's also sometimes really hard to see the good work that's done with our money because we have to wait like 10 years from like an RFP to like the building and people going into it um so it it it is a more immediate need that can be hopefully addressed more quickly um so I think it would warrant further conversation and and I do agree with what Erica says that I think there are some concerns that previous programs have had many limitations that have actually made it difficult to access funds so I think that talking about what realistically it would take for a person to access funds and what kind of viability there is for the tendency going forward is important to think about yeah thank you Carol f um I feel incredibly mixed about it because it feels like uh what am I trying to say I I would like I would welcome the conversation actually because I feel so mixed about it so I'd like to be able to talk about it more but part of my first reactions are we leverage so much more than we put into it when we are developing property that we get so much more for our money and then there's something there that gets to be a house or a home for hopefully generations of people not just this set of people right now at this moment and I don't have the faintest idea how to balance that against this family right now who lives here is not going to live here anymore if we don't do something it feels like they're so different and both important but it does feel to me like there are more people trying to do the if this family doesn't get some help right now they won't be here anymore then they are trying to to the we need more housing in which somebody or other could live sometime so that's my conundrum or whatever it is and feel really mixed about it and I would take a lot of probably take a lot of understanding more than I do right now about how it possibly would work in order to be in order to not want to try to keep focusing on making the housing affordable some way I doesn't have to be just the ways that we do it I'm hoping we can find better ways more creative ways new ways of doing it but still that leaves it more focused on the housing or I don't know I I pass I half don't know what I'm saying anyway but I just feel like there's a there's a tension here and exploring it would be fine okay good no doubt there's a tension and so we're just kind of cracking into it um and you know we have we can engage in a port folio of activities and we can put limits on the different kinds of activities um other thoughts um Alex or Rob any kind of initial reactions here yeah Rob please yeah um I uh I assume we're not being asked to to run a program oh no no there's other people doing it they need cash right okay so so um so I would also be interested in knowing uh why they why they need cash from us is it is that they're not able to fund those sorts of things elsewhere is it it would it be an ongoing thing would it be like would it be like we get 15% or 500,000 from CPA every year and then they would ask for 10,000 or or 20,000 or whatever from US every year um I'm open to that but I but I but I sort of want to know what details are yeah Greg I mean uh my my sense was they were able there was a huge need for this postco and then the funds appeared for it and the town administered the funds to the program is that get right yeah the the way the covid program worked is there was an external partner that um did that vetted families and and managed the applications and then that and then with their approval and and and the town contracted with that organization and then with their approval that the town actually cut the checks um uh so this model would the would be a little bit different and I because they haven't made a formal application I don't want to name organizations but um um th this this one would necessarily look a little probably look a little bit different and involve a couple different players um uh but there's you know there's you know there there's some interesting um people involved who might be able to answer some of these questions in more detail you know um but I you know yeah so you know basically we said like we we come back to you know if if there was a if resources and B like some level of interest that we come back but we didn't want them to make an application if there was no real interest at all Alex any uh kind of immediate reactions or or questions to raise about the the ask um no I think it just a lot of what everybody else has said I look forward to learning more about it and would happily entertain that application and conversation oh all right I mean um yeah my my reaction was you know this is within the scope of our broad Mission but how we choose to execute our mission is the question Erica go ahead please I was going to say president um we have in the past provided funding to ammer community connections uh and they have in the past come to uh the trust um you know since I've been here in 2019 have come to the trust for some support um and the trust has provided that support and I really think I I like the term portfolio uh or spectrum of work we have said you know from um uh being house in terms of prevention to housing people all the way to home ownership so I think you know within the spectrum of the work that we do I think they there is a certain amount of money we could set aside for something like this we did it for Co emergency and I think we should consider it I just Erica did we actually provide money ever I know we wrote Things in support of their applications Community connections did we actually give them money yes I just don't remember I believe you okay just okay we did um via the town um and it way whing came uh and asked for funding um and I think it was way back in 2019 or 2020 but it was um she did come and asked for funding um she's also asked for letters of support but at that time it was funding so you know one step we could take would be to say um uh we would like to be educated about what you're doing and how we could potentially fit noting that we still need to make sense of how it would and could fit into our mission and activities does that seem to be the The Next Step that the trust is comfortable with to get get educated by them in relation to their requests that sounds good Greg what do you think yeah I mean I think um I think that it makes sense to invite them to make a request of us um you know and and maybe with that invitation we'll note that our you know our funding timeline you know is is in part predicated on our incoming resources um but I think getting it to the degree of where where our our function is considering a request um and and as part of that getting educated you know rather than just ask for some generic education okay without off without without giving them the you know that that will you know we'll give it some real consideration I want to if we're going to make that request I want to you know make the offer that we'll we'll consider the request so okay are folks comfortable with that with with with inviting them to come to a request I guess with the qualification that um we're figuring out whether and how this could fit into our our mission and activities is are folks comfortable inviting them to come make a request with something like that Proviso uh I myly con because we're because at least I feel early in the process of figuring out whether this will fit or not I don't want them to feel set up they're going to educate us a bunch and then we actually don't want their request anyway I don't know how to so the Proviso has to be really strongly I think that um this is we don't know if this is the thing that we're exactly going to do if you want to come talk to us about it anyway please come but don't get your hopes up too much or I don't know how to say it right but that's my concern I think that's fair yeah F folks comfortable with that kind of uh um uh way of framing it yeah um uh algra does that seem all right you're you're comfortable with that way of putting it um uh Alex yeah Erica please go ahead um I think an in between might possibly be that they submit to us a proposal and then we then have them come um and this is just brainstorming we may not want to do that we may them want them just to come but if we're not comfortable with you know even being at 65% thinking we might support them and we think that might be best is for them to submit to us the need how they're going to do it Etc and then invite them to come to answer questions um that might be an in between step it seems like it ask them to do a lot of work before they know very much about what they might get but I don't know what I I'm giving them a choice okay yeah I mean I guess the the the if you have the the conversation Greg that kind of conveys what you've been hearing sure sure and then you know and then say I can request that they submit a and I guess their proposal would be kind of outside of what our standard framework is but I can I can guide them in that um you know uh and you know then we can look at it uh you know maybe next month um and then decide if we want to invite them to come answer some questions right I the the so do we invite them to come in December or do we invite them to submit a proposal that we can discuss in December and then um invite them to come back in January unless we felt moved to act on the papers so uh invite a proposal that we can review in December or invite them to come to December uh do people have a strong feeling one way or the other I I I actually think Erica's proposal is good um I don't think it needs to be a detailed proposal just we need a a framework to understand what what it is that they're being asked so I don't think it's necessarily a lot of work okay all right that that sound good to you Greg sure sounds great okay roll um great um who is chairing the uh education and Outreach subcommittee that's me okay uh alra you want to give us a window into how your meeting went yes um we had a productive discussion we talked a little bit about the wetlands parking lot to groups having Divergent needs um and kind of had tabled whether or not that would be a main focus of advocacy at this point um Alex had made a suggestion to put together some like a simple kind a brochure or some like almost like trust marketing material so if we were doing something like the block party or at any events that we might schedule throughout the year if they're in person we would have like something tangible describing our work um so I I don't know if that was something that we had ready for tonight or if that was something no okay um and then the League of Women Voters um John Hornick and Rebecca Frick and I had met on last Thursday to talk about doing kind of like an affordable housing 101 meeting we have a tentative date of January 23rd um and we are hoping that that would be a hybrid format so that we could have inperson participation at the Town room and then Zoom as well um and John was planning to invite um some different players in the affordable housing World in ammer to give Snippets into different pieces like development projects getting community on board to support things um and had asked me to do a little overview of the need for affordable housing in town um so that is kind of a quick overview of what that program might look like um so that would be in January and then I think we were just going to kind of think about what other boards and committees it might be helpful to collaborate with um for our next meeting and as of right now we've decided to meet once a month um and I did I leave anything out okay excellent um this I mean it sounds great this uh divide and and Conquer is uh productive I mean of course we were benefiting from those of you who worked on the strategy with Shelly which um was really uh very important um uh Erica and Rob uh who who who got tapped to be chair that's me okay so I feel like um like we're way behind compared to what the education Outreach group is doing our our our meeting uh was about um developing an internal strategy for for how to approach the work that we want to do so so first of all um we know that raising $4 million is is not going to happen next year it's it's a fiveyear plan so so so um what we've started with was was um uh determining what what sort of information we need in order to develop a a coherent and and realistic strategy Gathering some facts um um figuring out what what the what the lay of land is and then um will come back later and and using those facts um start to develop action steps but we're we're I think we're a little behind um where the other group seems to be you're breaking you guys are breaking the curve um well just to so the strategy we took in our development meeting with Carol Grover and and Greg was to actually run down the sub points in the strategy and basically identify what are immediate um next steps we can take on every single one of these and um so for the identified two or more Parcels um uh you know Greg agreed to take on communicating internally with the town to see what information could be um uh obtained um uh land donation from local educational institution uh Greg has been cultivating a relationship with a very uh proactive um person who's the point person at ammer College um on on this front um so I guess the next layer would be if you have any any updates on these Greg but um maybe I'll just kind of so basically we went down the list um on the um on the development ecosystem point which we referenced earlier um I've agreed to reach out to Banks which I have not done yet um but to find out the banks that have been financing adus and see um you know whether and how we can get them to frame offerings for the amher community um uh the the the path for non-conforming Lots First Step was getting data from the town um so our approach was to try to kind of create a little checklist of actions um nested under the six prongs of the development strategy and yeah I don't know Greg if you have any anything to um any anything concrete to share about about any of those items um you know on the um uh on the college front um nothing super concrete other than like just like positive relationship building and um I I continue to think there's um there's good energy there uh um that needs guidance rather than convincing um and you know and it seems like they're may be there may be things bigger than ammer a foot in a good way that we can kind of become a block in a bigger Regional strategy you know uh you know so I so I there's you know there's um yeah that's kind of all say now that front but it's you know I'm talking about the private colleges not not hums but um um yeah and then on the on the landf front um uh apparently nobody did respond to our RFP for uh for for the other school site um so there's some question we're going to re-release that or what um uh so go from there okay we were gonna ask were we not going to ask for lists of what try to develop or Greg was going to get for us lists of what are the town properties what are the all that bunch of stuff we wish we knew um yes and I'm not there yet um that's fine I a thing we were gonna try to do not that you should have done it already yeah and one one of the things I'm remembering now you just thinking about what we just heard from Tony you know one of the things that where there is a point of synergy I think quite clearly is that we can um as that is this as this development subcommittee really push into the housing production plan sites um you know so if there's priority development sites that we're aware of or become aware of um you know we can we can house them we can we can we can request and or direct that they'd be included in the housing production plan so whether and that could be you know there's a bunch of you know uh non non-conforming Parcels over here you know that we should take a good look at and that could also be like hey here are eight land owners you know who have great sites including town as landowner where we could do 40b projects on you know um um so yeah so one actually have been thinking about um being very thoughtful and intentional about how we launch the housing reduction plan such that at some juncture when it's done and we'll have to make sure we kind of elevate that juncture you know we could we could ask land owners to make an announcement come to a press conference sign a letter you know um you know that you know we're committed to this you know rather than just put it in the list we could you know we could have some folks you know point to themselves on the list you know which might you know put some PR around the whole thing okay good algra I had a question about something specific that was said it was RFP School site what huh uh there is another uh no not Wildwood um the Old South ammer campus thank you the old South ammer School which is like I guess a storage Annex now um and looks to be a pretty good housing site um there is a hope um to there was the The Building Commissioner was hoping to do a similar process that we did with uh the VFW site where we engaged in Architects to um uh to do a short-term sort of of you know produce a concept uh and you know and deliver that in like a three or four month period that that kind of thing um in in advance of a proper RFP for a developer um so yeah so that the the initial attempt and that wasn't I forget what they it's a seeking written quotes it's a little bit less significant than an RFP I guess but um uh we didn't get responses to that one um uh so we I guess he might reissue it um I don't actually know that um that part of the VFW site is the Fairly sophisticated end product um uh I don't know that we a more basic affordable housing development would would necessarily need as much thinking so I I don't know if if it would be as vital in the program side it might be useful in the um community relations side items not anticipated within 48 hours do we have a motion to adjourn okay second all right um all in favor hi I I all right thank you everybody sorry for running a little late um but we got to a great consensus which was well worth the effort thank you again Alex for jumping in on the drafting um thank you Greg as as ever and have a good night everybody thank you all byebye and everybody