##VIDEO ID:9k3CaLtKITU## great so I will officially uh announce that the Board of Health October 17th meeting is uh started adjourned um and we do not need to read a pre Preamble about being remote but we do need to say each member who is in attendance out loud um and make sure that all the names are recorded in the minutes so I will start with myself um I'm Risha Hess I'm the chair of the Board of Health and I am here I also see Prema and Jack and I think that's all I have to say I don't think everyone has to say here um so we have two uh members who are not here we know that Betsy Brooks is not going to be able uh to join today and we are waiting for Dia is that correct yes I think since we have a quorum with you Prema and Jack we should go ahead and start the meeting and I'll see if I can get in touch with Dia and make sure that she has the info to join great I had the agenda open all right so um well the first agenda item is welcoming Dia as our newest member so that's going to have to wait um and so we can uh review and receive the minutes from last month um has anybody does anyone have any comments or questions or changes that need to happen from the last agend minutes or um would someone like to move to approve them yeah I'm uh I'm opening that zip package I'm for uh I've had problems with it okay yeah I'm good I think okay Prema did you have any concerns with the minutes from last I did not okay so can we have a motion to approve motion to approve the minutes for August 8th 202 I'll second great uh do I have to do an all in favor thing I don't know the actual used I think you do yes okay so uh I am in favor Prima I and Jack I that seems really silly since you two just said you approved them all right um so the next uh piece of the agenda agenda is our public comment um and unfortunately I do not have in front of me what is that we typically say that there is a length of of comment that is allowed uh Kiko do you remember how that is it's three minutes um and so I'll just say that um since I'm the one managing the webinar I see that there are a lot of people who are attendees who are in the other room um and many of those people are here who are um to speak on agenda items so when it's when your particular agenda item comes up folks who are in the waiting room I will promote you to panelist so you can be part of the conversation um but if there's anybody in the waiting room right now who wishes to make public comment so again not because it's an agenda item that you are going to speak about but if you are in the waiting room because you want to make a public comment about something on this agenda please raise your hand so we can promote you to panelist and have you make your comment so I'm looking now to see if anyone's raising their hand and I don't see anything so I'm going to assume that all the folks in that waiting room are attendees here to speak on their particular agenda item and there are no public comments that are being made aware to me right now okay I also don't see any hands so I think we will move ahead um and the first old business I guess the only old business topic is the tobacco regulations everyone's favorite um and I think we're hitting the home stretch on these so what we need to do at this point is do a high level review of uh just reminding ourselves what's changed see if there are any concerns or questions um from any of the board members uh once we are agreed on any changes or um then we would vote to move these forward for public comment um and we would schedule a time that they would be made public and uh people could join us to voice any concerns or questions they have about them so as a reminder of the changes that have been made in this round that are of substance um we have eliminated a requirement that um everybody selling tobacco or tobacco handlers um take a quiz we will keep that quiz updated and have it as a resource if people want to use it as a way to ensure that they know the information that's relevant but it will no longer be a requirement we will remove the automatic 7-Day suspension for the first violations um and we'll have a 7day suspension for the second violation um and this really brings us in line with the state violation um number of days suspensions we will match the state minimum cigar prices uh which is a a slight increase from what they used to be we will eliminate the Restriction that employees selling tobacco have to be aged 21 and over um simply because that is a that was specific to ammer um and was not found to be productive and then we will combine the state and town fee structures so that there is just one fee structure and it doesn't matter if it's a violation that we have created or that the state has created um we the the remaining questions and I'm I'm happy to talk about any of those if if anybody has um concerns with any of those the remaining questions here are and I just want to get verification we have a definition in are regulations of what a government issued ID is and it's it's a bunch of examples it can be a a driver's license or etc etc um it does not exist in the state version and uh I have recommended that we get rid of it just in case new types of State IDs come out we don't have to keep updating the regulations with every type that would count and we just call it a government issued ID um so that is one thing I'd like to get concurrence on um and uh maybe I'll stop that there two more of that level of things but any concerns with getting rid of the examples and definition of a government I State a government issued ID none um but presumably we're going to keep the word valid right I will make sure it's in there I keep Val yep okay thank you for that the second thing that we need to talk about and and is uh we have a 60-day grace period for permit renewal um the state template has a 30-day we can keep ours more generous or we can move to match the state anyone have a strong opinion on that or advice on how to make that decision it seems to me would be just more streamlined if we match the state yeah I agree okay I'm I'm fine with that uh so match State Embrace period and then the last one uh when there is a violation we can either word it that we shall hold a hearing after four violations or that we may hold a hearing after four violations so essentially that means is it a requirement after they have four violations and we are required to meet with them um or do we want to keep it if we feel like we need to meet with them than we would after four violations what would be the alternative to to meeting them I'm just meeting with them I mean I'm just sort of trying to imagine a scenario where where we wouldn't because it seems as if for is rather a significant number of bi I mean I guess they deal with the suspension and the fines and we wouldn't talk to them at all and then they went all they keep going I see [Music] um is there any guidance U or protocol from the state on something like that I'd have to look at which one they say um he go does anyone have that section open violation section B okay so that really isn't um everything else in here says shall um but but everything else here is about suspension and fines so it's just saying that that's an automatic suspension automatic fine um and then the only thing that has a May on it is that we would meet that we would hold a hearing with them and and then it says well let me read the whole uh the whole section in case of four violations or repeated egregious violations of any section of this regulation as determined by the Board of Health within a 36-month period the Board of Health May hold a hearing in accordance with this regulation and after such a hearing May permanently revoke a tobacco sales permit so I think the only reason to hold a violate a meeting a hearing would be if we wanted um to permanently revoke their ability and I guess the question is do we want to automatically go into that hearing or is it a do we want to leave ourselves wiggle room to say we are not that concerned after the fourth violation um and I'm sorry did you say that what is the state the language in the state template is it shall or may did you say that I don't I don't have that in front what you don't have in front of you let see see if I can pull it up um Moren had suggested that we make it shall yes I remember that and and I think that it was very much feeling that in this is a fairly egregious you know four four violations repeated egregious violations within 36 months you know I I think that these are fairly strong policies and that the general feeling as I recall was that we wanted to absolutely hold a in um if somebody was you know violating the regulations in this sort of consistent way that's what I recall I think had been talk about before so just my memory thank you sure I I would be fine with making it sh um it does feel like it's worth talking to them at that point um it doesn't mean an automatic revocation of their license but it it's worth talking to them and seeing what's going on right it seems like it would be appropriate to have a hearing if we're talking about per permanently revoking a permit yeah oh for sure for sure um I've located it in the state template and it does say sh okay so it sounds like everyone's on board with SH or it looks like I hear see noted correct correct correct all right um does anyone so those were the three we hadn't actually answered does anyone want to go back to any of the other changes that we made um and ask any questions or have any concerns with those decisions um on on page nine um well I guess those were questions for Cheryl but I I I didn't really understand um do you see it like the question does this wording fit here and whether all tobacco uh retailers yeah those were um I don't know how they show up in this particular version but um they have sort of been closed uh Cheryl did not respond to them and she did respond to the others and so I think it means that when she did not respond it's not something that is um a concern so we've gone back and looked at the wording it seems fine um we are making no changes based on not having heard anything further from her okay that's fine any other questions concerns about this the if not the next step would be to say that we vote that this is our I don't know how the phrasing is if it's our our first draft that we're ready to circulate to the public and get comment on um but that we're we're all thinking that this is the way we want to go with these regulations there is still a chance to change them between now and the official adoption even if we find anything um but this is the draft we circulate to the public yeah and I just wanted to say before people voice an opinion about that that I think you mentioned this at the beginning but there really this this has taken us way longer than we thought right and the initial the initial impetus was um just that it had been some time since these were initially written and they had been revised you know I think maybe five years ago but things are constantly changing and so the whole section of supporting evidence is new like that's all new in this in these new in these regulations that was taken from the state template so it was really this idea of things have changed there's new evidence to site there are also some other little bits and pieces that could be made more current let's use the state template and let's allow that to basically inform what we're doing here in ammer so that's that's what we decided to do I think that it's um there have been other things that have come up around the issue of tobacco since we started having this conversation one of which is the nicotine free generation policies which are uh there was a regulation passed in Brooklyn and I think other municipalities are talking about that or considering it and I'm certainly not introducing that as a topic right now but just to say that I think it's good that we get this done and that we have the hearing and as time Rolls by there may be a need to look at it again because this is a constantly changing environment when it comes to nicotine products and tobacco products so just to set a little context there for folks great thank you all right so one more chance to ask any questions and if not if someone wants to move to approve this as are Kiko I don't have the language it's not a draft but it's a the these because we can't vote on them until the public comments but we can vote to say this is the yeah I think it's the the final revised regulations something like that I guess the final draft of the revised regulations okay I like that um I'll make the motion to accept um the final draft of the tobacco regulations you muted je I was muted yeah I second sorry okay so all in favor Prema hi Jack hi me I Yay such progress wonderful it's been a long road it has been a long road so now we're going over to new business and Kiko I'm gonna turn it over to you um about the next agenda items okay great so um before I do that I just want to say I did reach out to DIA or try to reach sure via email text did not get a response I just wanted to say out loud Dia are you in the waiting room under a different name that I don't recognize because if you are please do raise your hand so that I can promote you to panelist um so then our next uh the next the first item of on the agenda under new business is to discuss the emis college geothermal well project and I believe we have I think it's Chris and uh Lindsay and I'm not sure who else okay they're raising their hands so I'm going to promote you to panelist right now hang on it's just going to take a second and Jeff okay is that [Music] working I see Lindsay I see Chris Jeff anybody else in the waiting room who wants to be added to the this conversation please do raise your hand okay okay um and then we have also in the meeting Susan Malone um one of our inspectors here with the town who's been working on this project and connecting with Chris Jeff and Lindsay so Susan do you want to give a brief overview and then turn it over to our guest okay I'll just say very briefly that um the 151 College Street ammer College um geothermal well project started out months ago with two test Wells and that came before um the board and it was discussed and I think um the proponents are here to um follow up and so the idea is to actually install another 141 Wells and they as my understanding is they want to start with two more test Wells that would utilize a different method than what they did a few months ago but the the overall goal goal is to have uh the parking lot that um is it's included in your package the layout of the wells and uh it'll the the number of wells will pretty much cover this parking lot area um Ed Smith and I had taken photos of that a few months back and it's essentially the the same look so with that I'm going to turn it over to the applicants thank you Susan thanks for having us uh my name is Chris Tate I'm a capital project manager with Amis college and I have Lindsay and Jeff with Salo Brian here to provide technical support if we need it um but hopefully hopefully I do an okay job and they don't kick me under the table um is it okay if I share my screen yeah hopefully you could do that let go ahead okay let me know if this looks all right um so this is this is the parcel in question um College Street is to the north and uh ammer College proper is to the left of this page as you're going down College Street you go under the train tracks and then this parcel is is right past the train tracks across from the hardware store so you see this is um one of our parking lots we call it East lot and then behind it is our Central Energy plant with the Big Smoke Stack um um and we have another uh Seymour building back here which houses some of our facilities operations so this is the parking lot in question and then I'll go to another plan so here is a view of the 141 wells plus the two Wells circled in red that we already put in in March um so this is kind of the layout uh these Wells are sorry these are Clos Loop geothermal ores they're not Wells um but it is a well permit so I I get a little confused but um so these BS are spaced 20 feet apart and they're 850 ft deep um they're arranged in eight separate circuits so each circuit you can see with the lines here they're all connected together um and these eight circuits all um are manifolded in an underground vault and then from that Vault there's uh two 10-inch lines that come out and come back behind the central energy plant to a new addition which is this rectangle uh which will be our Energy Center um this Energy Center houses uh water source heat pumps as well as air source heat pumps which can take which can exchange heat with the ground um and by using this technology we can use renewable electricity to heat and cool our campus and phase off of using fossil fuels to heat steam which is what we currently do so this geothermal um wellfield is is the centerpiece of our climate action goals of decarbonizing Amis college campus um we've reviewed this project with the conservation commission we have an order an approved order of conditions from them we also had a pre-construction meeting with Aaron jacqu the wetlands administrator on September 12th and she's reviewed all of the um erosion and sedimentation controls for the first phase uh this is a multiphase project so there there will be many phases and many reviews with Aaron um but we've established erosion sentation controls all along um the Eastern side of the parking lot it kind of slopes this is it's higher up here and then it slopes down to the East and then you can kind of see uh you can kind of see this is a giant cver a 52inch CT that um outfalls right off of our property line and becomes fearing Brook so we're trying to protect fearing Brook from any construction activity and we are well monitored by the uh Conservation Commission in that endeavor um the two test Wells that we performed under well permit uh 24-1 are circled in red and when we perform performed those Wells we use a method called air hammer um technology to to to do that and uh we weren't especially happy with the Water Production that was generated from that so our uh colleagues at Salis recommended a different method which is called Mud rotary um which is more of a closed loop system and mud doesn't sound very good but there's actually a it's like a formulated clay product Bentonite that's mixed with the water and then that Bentonite additive forms like a thin film on the bore hole and seals it and prevents water losses while drilling um so we're able to carry the cuting from the bottom of the well up to the surface to a separator where Dyer cuttings are discharged and then we can scrape those up and uh get those off site and then the rest of the fluid is pumped back into the well and it kind of keeps all the water in one place instead of generating more water um which was a concern again because of fear and Brook um sorry trying to work on two screens here at the same time uh and then any remedial water that is generated from this mud rotary system will get pumped into two 10,000g Weir tanks which will be located on the high side of the site right here and a 10,000-gallon clarifier um which will discharge into the sanitary system uh one of the other things we learned from these test BS was that there's a high concentration of iron in the rock that we're that we're drilling into um so we're trying to settle out that iron before we discharge into the city or the town sewer and um we've already had discussions with ammer DPW about this uh and we think we have a good plan to get our iron levels below the 2 milligram per liter uh range but in case we don't we can also uh uh apply for a non-standard discharge permit from ammer DPW and they're you know we've had very good discussions with them when we do some of these uh new test fors with the mud rotary system we're going to uh test the effluent and see what we get and then we're going to move on from there with DPW um we also so Susan took some pictures uh I haven't seen them but what we did was we marked out the Well locations with little green dots all throughout the parking lot and this is just this is showing um the red are the ones we weren't able to mark out because cars were parked on top of the parking spaces but all all these Wells that aren't red were all marked out in the field um for the Health Department's review and I think that's the the general gist of this project I would be HP more than happy to take your questions so um this is Jack uh what's you the first drilling method you tried was air hammer that's correct okay and and that was a problem or what what are you trying to optimize with with the additional uh looking at Mud rotary what was the issue with air hammer so with air hammer we actually weren't producing that much water which is great you know we don't want to produce water because it's something that we have to deal with when we do um but even you know even with the seven gallons per minute we were finding you know just with the one well we we filled up like a 5,000 gallon um tank with water and um so to dispose of this water which you know gets all mucked up with the uh with the rock debris um you have to bring it to a quarry and we actually heard um anecdotally from our friends at Smith college that they're having more and more trouble bringing this this you know backing out this water in a V truck and then driving it to a quarry and trying to dispose of it now they're having to go further and further out to get to you know other quaries that would take the water so so we're trying to avoid that situation so we heard that mode rotary is the way to go because we just don't generate a lot of water at all so we can dispose of the cuttings you know the the dry crushed up Rock but we don't have to also you know deal with 5,000 gallons per bore hole and we have a lot of bore holes here so that's a lot of water to to get rid of if we were using air hammer we can't just discharge um you know sometimes Drillers will dig a big sediment Basin and and just kind of let the water percolate in and we just don't have the room to do that on site and we're also very concerned that any water that kind of escapes is going to go right into fing Brook and and we don't want that so we're trying to keep we're trying not to generate any water if we can avoid it or the minimal amount yes so there aren't a heck of a lot of Bedrock Wells being drilled in the downtown area so this information is is is interesting just from a a scientific and water supply standpoint even you know irrigation water supply uh standpoint that's so this curious about um make you know this would be public you know available to the public whatever to understand a little bit better you know groundwater availability in in that portion of amers yeah I mean I'm happy to you know if the board's interested I can share our uh our four logs that we have from these first two and it it just says at what depth we encountered groundwater and kind of the amount of groundwater we did encounter um but um hey Chris I'll just I lost my train but one thing Jack what we don't do which people are more interested in is a flow test so we did not perform any like 48 hour flow tests and then watch the static water level in the hole to see how much it drops and what that tells you is how much water you really have in the ground for like a water well that was not part of our uh testing yeah I guess one thing I didn't mention either is that you know we're using the term well um vernacularly here but these are closed loop systems so there's a a one and a half inch uh tube that goes down and then it UB bends and comes back up and then we grout around that so there's no exchange of the fluid in the tube with groundwater at all um so this generation I'm talking about is only during installation of the bore ho drilling operation and it has nothing to do with you know we don't want any of the water from the ground we're just putting our our water into the ground to exchange heat with with the ambient ground temperature yeah you you just mentioned the seven gallons per minute it was a um just a rough number I understand but Jack that's produced by the air that not produced by anything else that's produced by the air going down the the drill stem yeah and pushing your cuting up and as it pushes the cuting up it pulls in any water so yeah doesn't give you any indication on what that water bearing Zone would produce okay yeah what's the diameter of the of the holes uh what five and 78 okay so thank you for that um what what is the what do we need to vote on or approve at this point the two additional test Wells no well we're asking for all 141 BS and um we are going to do couple of Bs uh this fall because we need that information that'll help us plan what we do next year but we you know we plan to move forward with this entire project um both this fall and next year so Jack as our resident expert do you have any concerns or no I mean I I think we we talk to Kiko that you know um from a health perspective there's pretty you know minimal uh concern here kcom has been involved um looks like the waste management you know is being you know taken care of um in terms of the you know the waist streams you know the water going to the DPW it's going to be treated beforehand and all that so um yeah I I don't have any other questions or concerns and so just to add and just to make sure that we're clear so you did come before the board for the two test Wells which were approved and then yeah um and then now you're you're explaining that that method that you used is actually not the one you want to use then you're going to use something else and you're going to do to you're going to test that presumably in the fall is that what you said or next spring in the fall yep we want to we're not worried about the method we're just interested in the production how quickly you can drill a well because that'll help us plan for next how long it will take you to do the whole thing right gotcha okay okay so then um yeah I think initially we did it in stages because the board wanted to approve the test Wells and then see what would happen from there and so now you're doing a different methodology so I the board could conceivably say oh we want to wait till you do those before we approve the whole project what I'm hearing from Jack is that there's probably no need to do that but I just wanted to be crystal clear about about that so yes is that right jack correct okay and Susan do you have anything else to add NOP I I think um they did a good job with the presentation so I don't have any other questions or comments thank you right so does someone want to move to approve the 141 Wells including two more test Wells uh so move I guess I can second um all right so all in favor Jack uh I pela I and me hi there you go thank you so much for your time thank you for joining thank you thank you all thank you thanks um okay so before we move on to the next agenda item I wanted to mention I did hear from DIA and there was a schuling um misunderstanding and so she's not going to be joining us she thought the meeting started at 7 so she's not available right now so she wanted me to convey her apologies sorry about that this was I think we're just not really in the flow with all the changes that we've made and whatnot but at the end of today's meeting we will try to schedule um you know a set schedule next me of meetings going forward so sorry not to have her with us today um so then the next um item is the drinking water well application at 354 Henry Street and again Susan I'm going to turn it to you to okay thank you and Alexander wants to be promoted to panelist okay promoting you just a moment there we go thank you okay thanks Kiko um so this is a um drinking water well private um well and the uh board had already approved the and issued a permit to construct the well the next step that we go through in the process is um to review and approve the water supply certificate uh which is a certificate stating that the water um has been tested and is safe for human consumption and so um the applicant um Alex Neer has provided the required documentation which includ includes uh Laboratory Testing of the water uh the testing included all of the uh local uh ammer requirements for drinking water testing and there was uh nothing significant in the lab report except that it's a little bit High um manganese but that is not um uh significant to health or safety uh uh let's see there was also he also supplied the um well completion report from the driller which gave information on the uh yield um of seven gallons per minute um and some of this information was used in order to um uh uh uh provide the volume of re the required volume of water so uh in looking at that it's a pretty hamis regulations have a pretty straightforward um uh equation where the number of bedrooms plus one bedroom is Multiplied times uh 110 gallons per bedroom times a safety factor of two to yield the number of gallons needed daily and uh uh Alex computed this and came up with 1,100 gallons um daily uh he could have provided some additional information because he does have a storage tank in the basement and he could have also calculated some storage uh capacity within the well itself but this wasn't really necessary um he was able to provide documentation of the required volume and then the final item that was is requested um for the well Supply certificate is um an as built statement and Alex Who provided the original design provided a final um drawing so that it was consistent and it was built as planned in the location plann so with that um I can say that uh the applicants met all of the requirements that the Board of Health um asks for uh in order to approve a water supply certificate um I don't know if Alex would like to make any additional comments or if anyone has any questions other than thank you s Susan I um I really appreciate as a as a homeowner um general contractor um I really appreciate your guidance um you know through this process and um you know both both you and and the previous health inspector Ed were really fantastic in helping navigate this this complicated process so thank you sorry go ahead no I was just gonna ask because uh I am new to this process except for the last time we uh I haven't gone the whole way through is there anything else after this is this the the final step or do you have one any more steps after this this is pretty much the final step um uh and that uh it's it's a long process I'll tell you and and and we went back and forth quite a bit because under our new um permitting system our open gov system this was the first drinking um water uh well and water supply certificate that I've looked at uh since I I've um assume these responsibilities so there there's been a lot of discussion back and forth uh between Alex and I and the driller and I and um also Jack was really helpful spent some time with me uh reviewing what requirements we have in place and understanding those requirements so um at this point confident as I'm going to be that we are we are all set to go um if I could ask one question and um thank you Alex for being here and thank you Susan for your present for your summary um so Dia is not here um but Dia did review all the materials and as a biochemist had a particular question which was about the manganes level um in the water you know exceeding the CMR levels not by much but you know by a little bit and so her question was about you know given the neurotoxic effect of long-term exposure to manganes is is is that a I mean again I'm new to this Susan you've reviewed these water um samples more than I have Jack you probably have some knowledge about this as well is this something that we where we would recommend water filtration whether the board would recommend something like that or what is the how would this be you know is it a concern and how should it be addressed if so so Susan if I might jump in um Kiko I've we've already been proactive um with this we've actually um consulted with uh our plumber and a filtration expert um company and we've had uh water filtration installed um so we we already have this the the meanes is already being taken care of through filtration so good to know I'm just glad to hear that thank you yeah I I I read through all the the EPA EPA reports and everything especially you know the effects on pregnant women and children and yeah yeah we were proactive with that so excellent thank you yep yeah mean M magines is being a secondary um um water quality goal the health impa the health impacts aren't really integrated into any rulings you know at this point in time um but that's I mean so it's related to you know taste odor uh uh how the water you know staining and things like that so but uh I'm not as aware of of the health effects that you're you're talking about that's it's maybe it's it's more on the uh emerging emerging sort of you know research side of things with regard to water quality drinking water quality but I would not be concerned about you know drinking it but it's it's always these just whether you like the water so you you'll be or the smell of the water yes yeah so if there was um uh a pregnant woman or an infant in the household we would have some concerns and have an advisory and I did share with Alex some uh material on it but but that's not the case so we don't feel that there's going to be any negative health impact and what is the filtration system you've installed oh I should have I should have pulled the documentation um I mean is it osmosis is it um I'll have I'll have to if you'd like I could forward the information through to take photos and and forward the information on but I I you know given our our timeline I don't I'd hate for that filtration system documentation to to forestall any sort sort of approval today especially if it's not you know um a requirement sure I think it would be useful to to share it but I think we can go forward knowing that that's coming yeah I'll absolutely share that I'll I'll do that later tonight and rep it on to to Susan for dissemination okay so should we move to approve and I'm so bad with these language the drinking water what is the name of the thing we need to approve it's the drinking water well application at 354 Henry Street and so and specifically the water supply certificate thank you Susan all right can we get a motion to approve the water supply certificate so moved second all right uh and all in favor Jack uh I Prima hi and myself I it is approved thank you everyone for your time I appreciate that I'll also send a photo of the water filtration system as installed as well for you great thank you Alex thanks Kiko um Susan did you want to raise um the questions that you had about well water applications in general just briefly to be discussed in more detail at another meeting yeah sure and um so I met with Kiko and with Jack and talked about um how we wanted to proceed in the future with a water supply certificate and there is you know the the stated documents just as Alex has provided and it's um in the recent past it's gone both ways where the approval of the CER certificate has actually been scheduled at a meeting and gone before the Board of Health but also um over several years uh that step was um approved by um the the health agent reviewing the application so my question mainly is how would you like to proceed going forward would you like to see every water supply certificate um uh at uh step because you the drinking water well application permission to construct the well does come before uh the Board of Health um and this is an additional step and so uh I just am setting that before you and you may want to take some time and have some discussion and decide uh but we just want um asking for some clarity a as agent of the Board of Health reviewing applications regularly we just want to know we're bringing to the board the things that you actually want to uh see and discuss and have approval over or if you want to delegate um that task to us thanks Kiko so go ahead Jack go ahead oh I was just going to say chime in that from my perspective the it it seems to be flip-flopped in terms of what we're looking at in terms of the the the first part which is the the well drilling application versus the the water certificate for me like the Board of Health our our our mission would be more in tuned with reviewing only the water certificate and not looking at the the the drilling because the drilling is more set by by other factors that aren't directly uh health related that can be handled by um say the um the building inspector you the planning what you has the well you know for drinking water purpose has to be a certain distance you know all that I think uh from say the Subic system and and you know the property boundary all that is taken care by other uh governing uh boards is my understanding so my feeling is I I think we should be looking at this Final Phase that has the water quality information in it that has Health impacts associated with it uh versus the early part so I think what we talked about is um so there might be some tweaks then to this process that Jack is recommending and that also Susan was wondering about whether some applications wouldn't need to come before the board if there's a checklist and the health agent can be empowered just to do the checklist and not have to come before the board so I think what we could do for the next meeting is just like we did with the geothermal Wells where Tim put together kind of a list of guidelines of things that need to come before the board and things that don't that um Jack could do something similar he he's already given us some of his time for these discussions and it sounds like he might be able to just codify what we talked about into a list of recommendations that the board can then approve as to how we how the board interfaces with well applications going forward yeah and and to that uh followup I I I did receive the the kind of governing uh literature on that from on the local level is our bylaw and in the state there's a guide a guideline and I have not U had a chance to kind of go over that and you just got it yesterday okay thank you yes completely reasonable yeah well that was my question is where where is this held and what would have to change to change any of ours but this sounds like a good conversation to put on the next agenda okay okay so then moving to item C under new business which is the flath hill estate subdivision plan which you also received copies of and Susan please help me out here I want to make sure that I'm presenting this correctly um but what this is a a subdivision plan that has been submitted as his a requirement for subdivision plans and subdivision plans do become come before the board because generally when you're doing a subdivision you need to install septic and drinking water wells um however this particular subdivision they're being very you know transparent about they never intend to build it um there have been articles in the Gazette about it or in I guess not The Gazette in the um the indie or other places um and I think it's sort of common knowledge in the way that they're talking about it is that they don't intend to build this subdivision that the land I think is being set aside if I'm not um wrong for solar installation and so but it still has to go through this process in which case it will be coming before the board officially at some point in the future and so this is really more of a heads up this thing is this plan is out there for the board's um you know awareness if that's is that right Susan did I get that right yeah that that sounds exactly right that in order to build a subdivision to to build a house um it's required that the Builder be able to demonstrate that there will be portable water and there will be sewage disposals so that's in terms of either a public water supply and sewer system or a private drinking water well and uh septic system but yes there there's no intention to actually build a subdivision but they're trying go through the required steps um so that the and then we'll exempt the the requirements so but they have to go through a a process to um to do this so that that we've been asked to um uh speak to to these requirements so and what is required of us now is this just a heads up that it's coming it's just a heads up that it's coming okay I still don't understand why but okay if they're not building anything why do we need to approve but fall out it's it is a process and ultimately it'll be stated these are the requirements and then the applicant's going to request to exempt the requirements so that that yeah it's kind of a bumpy process you're right it is yeah um so ultimately it I'm assuming the the Board of Health doesn't have anything to do with uh deciding about the freezing of the zoning that's correct as far as I understand it I mean the Board of Health would just that you know as as you said Susan the Builder has to demonstrate that there's portable water and you know a place to build septic when there's new houses being built and so that's something that the Board of Health would be concerned about but in terms of what this land excuse me can be used for ultimately is not a Board of Health decision as I understand it thank you okay shall we move on then to item the fourth item under new business um okay so this is uh about Oriental flavor suspension of license with notice and there have been some updates about the suspension of license since I put together the board of agend Board of Health agenda at the end of last week so and I'm turning it over to Sasha and I'm going to promote Mr Zang who I see in the meeting waiting room um who is the one of the I believe owners of the restaurant so I'm promoting you to panelist Mr Zang just a moment that should be happening and then um Sasha turning it over to you hey uh good evening everyone thank you all for being here my name is Sasha clap I'm one of the Health Inspectors my primary role is conducting food inspections for all the food establishments across ammer uh this matter has come before the board as a result of repeated inspections due to repeated violations of the provisions related to food born illness at the establishment known as Oriental flavor um the documentation that has been provided to the board shows again repeated viol ations of the provisions related to foodborn illness as a result of 11 inspections which have been conducted since May 7th 20124 uh these Provisions are in particular related to persons in charge not being able to demonstrate the knowledge and responsibilities or duties of the persons in charge including repeated violations of preparation of sanitizing solution for surfaces maintaining surfaces in appropriate San Iz ation um repeated violations for handwashing and glove use repeated violations for cold holding of raw products repeated violations for um sorry just going through my notes Here uh employees actively eating and drinking in food preparation areas uh holding raw meats over ready to eat foods and repeated temperature violations for cooking and cold holding Foods um when we find repeated violations or violations of foodborn Provisions food uh Provisions for foodborn illness we are required to return to an establishment for reinspection and as a result of the reinspection we continue to find violations uh We've required to place new persons in charge at The Establishment and have found over the last several months um no significant improvement with regards to uh food safety practices as a result of this on October 10th we issued the suspension of permit with notice notifying Oriental flavor that their permit would be suspended as a result of this hearing and that would be effective on October 18th uh so tomorrow morning and then because of an inspection that occurred on October 9th I returned on October 15th for reinspection at the time of reinspection there were six Provisions related to food born illness or violated Provisions related to foodborn illness um in those included again uh employees eating and drinking in food preparation areas um food contact surfaces that were not clean and sanitized the person in charge who is the person who ultimately oversees food safety practices not demonstrating um knowledge and responsibilities of the person in charge so essentially not making sure that food safe practices were being implemented in the establishment um and as a result of that we issued the emergency suspension of license on October 15th so the establishment was uh closed by order of the Board of Health uh without a prior hearing and has been closed since Tuesday and so today we are here um to ask for uh information and guidance as to how best to proceed thank you before we dive in can I ask a clarifying question on process and that is um what would the process is there an automatic time at which a suspension is lifted or what has to happen for a sus do we do we have to say something has has changed in a suspension is lifted so I suppose I can provide some clarity um with regards to the expectations um for orders so when there are violated provisions of um so what we call the the provisions related to foodborn illness so these are numbers 1 through 29 on our inspection reports uh we issue orders for correction those orders for correction are expected to be corrected within 24 hours unless otherwise specified on the report so we go back we conduct a reinspection and if those orders are not corrected then we come back and do another reinspection which is why there have been 11 inspections over the course of the last 5 months uh so there have been ample opportunities to to make sufficient corrections to address the orders that have been provided to The Establishment and so essentially um the requirement is to correct the orders um and the orders in this case are to place a person in charge who's able to oversee food safe practices you know along with other other orders which include right um appropriately preparing sanitizer addressing cold holding um but ultimately making sure that those food safe practices are in place to protect public health and Public Safety um so with regards to to process um essentially what what needs to occur is um the orders that have been given to the establishment need need to be corrected and then I would love to give Susan an opportunity if there's anything that you'd like to add with regards to process I'd like Susan to have the opportunity to speak I'll I'll just say briefly that um in working with Sasha that um she really has gone through all of the steps there was great effort taken to see that there was every opportunity given to educate to make corrections to engage consultant to meet with Rob MOA The Building Commissioner twice uh EV as I said every effort has been made to uh encourage correction of the violations and to engage in safe practices and just uh none of these actions have been successful so that that brings us to where we are today thank you both for that clarification may I also just say and I apologies if you said this because I I'm multitasking a little bit but if you mentioned about the work with the consultant that had happened sure I'm happy to speak on that um part of the orders for correction that were issued after several reinspection uh that resulted in actually an increase in the provisions related to foodborn illness um some sometime between June and September we had required and after a meeting with our Building Commissioner uh Mr Rob MOA we had required that the owners hire a consultant to work uh with them on food safe practices um part of this was because we were spending a significant number of hours of departmental time uh with education so each time I conducted an inspection I was working with the persons in charge on proper handwashing techniques um so actually spending time with demonstrations for handwashing techniques um education about when to change gloves so for example when going between handling um raw chicken to handling ready to eat Foods so um raw chicken to serving for example rice right something that you don't have to cook again before um giving to the public um or when you handle trash uh you must then remove your your gloves wash your hands change your gloves before handling food um so we did a lot of Education there and then we also did a significant number of hours of Education uh with the preparation the proper preparation of sanitizing solution um how to make the sanitizing solution to properly sanitize dishes and uh surface and when that was unsuccessful um one strategy that we have in our toolkit available to us is to order the establishment to hire an outside consultant and these are folks who are certified and accredited through the state to train food establishments on food safe practices and so Oriental flavor hired mojan Solutions uh to work with them to train all of their staff on food safe practices to effectively handle food they submitted to us documentation and they also submitted to us mock inspection reports and those mock inspection reports also cited Provisions related to foodborn illness uh similar to the the documented uh violations that I found not as many um but they were still finding with their consultant violated provisions and they were similar Provisions right cold holding violations so for example all food that's held in refrigeration for service to the public needs to be held under 41° um some foods were held at a temperature of over 65° um so if we think about right for example raw chicken needs to be held under 41 degrees to prevent the growth of bacteria we were finding chicken at 58 sometimes 65 degrees um there were Citation for food being held in handwashing sinks so in an establishment sink needs to be specific for one function so when we wash our hands we're removing contamination from our hands so a hand wash sink is labeled handwash only and we don't do food preparation in the handwash syn because when we wash our hands we're removing contamination from our hands we don't want to also be washing lettuce or washing food in that same sink and so one of the other citations was that there was food stored in a handwashing sink right so these are some examples of the violations that were commonly cited the consultant also found violations of again handwashing not being observed in employees and glove use not being observed appropriately in employees and what's more pertinent rather than just these kind of one-off situations is that the person in charge which is a term that we use in food code the person in charge is often a manager a food protection manager they they have a certificate in this that person in charge is responsible for overseeing the food safe practices so when your health inspector is not there this person is responsible for ensuring that the food that leaves the establishment is safe to serve to the public and what we found through these 11 inspections and through the three inspections that were conducted by the consultant is that the persons in charge at Oriental flavor were not able to demonstrate that the food leaving the establishment was safe for public consumption through these documented violations of Provisions related to foodborn illness and so the concern is we want to make sure that the food that is being served from the establishments in ammer is safe for the public and that we're minimizing the risk of foodborn illness when we're serving food to the public and that's our responsibility and that's the shared responsibility of the persons in charge so that is the question that we have before us today thank you Sasha for that additional detail K if if I could just add briefly uh you know we're Sasha's done a great job of describing you know how we're regulating and uh the the um requirements that that we put in place but Ju Just to you know the impact of is basically when you when we've gone in repeatedly Sasha especially gone in and say Here's how you make a sanitizer so that the dishes come out clean and the utensils come out clean so you can use them after people have been eating with these and drinking with these things here's how you make a sanitizer you take a cap full of bleach you put it in this this bucket that measures out an amount of water and now you've got sanitizer and here we're going to take a test strip and this is how we're going to prove that it has enough sanitizer in it dip that test dip in for in the water for 3 seconds and come out to do that repeatedly over and over and over again and not have the person who's entrusted with doing that be able to perform it independently of the inspector um is is appalling we we don't see that kind Ty that we don't see this level of um inability to conformed to the regulations we don't see this typically in establishments the the huge number of violations the gross violations this this is rare we we will see violations but they get corrected um and they should not be repeated and I would ask um uh Sasha to describe um one of her anecdotes of going in um this is the issue with the glove and the raw chicken and the rice and I'd ask her to describe that for you right so you know there was an an instance where I did observe an employee who had just handled raw chicken who then went from handling raw chicken with a gloved hand to then immediately handle ready to serve rice so rice that was going to be immediately served to a customer um so this is what we consider ready to eat food um after handling a RAW Protein um so this is an immediate risk for for contamination because uh raw chicken is of course a highrisk food chicken needs to be cooked to an internal temperature of 165° so when you go from having a contaminated glove and then handling um rice that's going to be served to a customer immediately uh this was a significant risk and probably for me one of the the most um Illuminating examples of a contamination that occurred at The Establishment um you know with the additions of food stored on the floor um inappropriate cooling methods which we see pretty pretty consistently of course um you know Oriental flavor is working really diligently to improve uh cooling logs and to improve cooling temperatures but we're just not seeing the significant progress that's required to ensure uh that we're reducing foodborn illness risk um and we're just not seeing the corrections that are required to protect food safety thank you um and I think as Susan said these are the standards that other restaurants in amorist are being held to and that other restaurants in amorist are working towards you know as as Susan said there are sometimes violations but not to the degree that we are seeing that that Sasha and Susan have seen at Oriental flavor and this is an expectation if you have a restaurant in ammer that you would here or anywhere in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts that you would here to these food codes um so I think you've heard a lot Risha Jack and Prema and I'm wondering if you have questions or comments at this point and and maybe we can just I I I also wonder if we would like to hear from Mr Zing uh if he has anything he would like to add at this juncture before we do that I wanted to say that I think the question before the board is and Sasha Susan please tell me if I'm getting this wrong that um when we put the together the agenda the license had not been yet been suspended it was suspension with notice on Tuesday when Sasha went in not there were additional violations so that was emergency closure happened on Tuesday otherwise it would have been closing tomorrow and this would have been the hearing prior to that closing but now it's already been closed and the question is what does the board want to see happen in order for this restaurant to be able to reopen and has made it pretty clear that the main concern is that there must be a person in charge who can ensure that food safe practices are being conducted on a consistent and sustained basis so I think that's the question did I get that did I summarize that well Sasha Susan anything you want to add sure so you know I think I absolutely think that that has addressed kind of where we're at in terms of the situation with regards to a person in charge we have asked you know as again one of our Tools in our toolkit we have asked several times that a new person in charge be placed um we've asked that Mr Jen be replaced as a person in charge we've asked that kidong be be replaced as a person in charge um they've named Mr Deng as a person in charge at the most recent inspection and we were still finding Provisions related to foodborn illness so at this time we need somebody who's able to exhibit the authority over the persons who are working in the kitchen um to to ensure that we're having food safe practices so I think that really is kind of the concern um that that faces the board at this time so Kiko if I can summarize and speak to your point um the the orders have been issued by uh Sasha to suspend the license so the question before the board is to either allow the suspension um with a and there's conditions that um the suspension stays in place until it's demonstrated that Corrections have been made or the board may choose to overturn the orders so basically that's what's before the board to either allow the orders to uh suspend to stand or to overturn thank you so much Susan for that um so that's the question then and I I just want to ask the board do you want to hear from Mr Jen or are there further comments questions before we do that I I would like to hear from Mr Jen Mr Jen do you have some comments you'd like to make and you can unmute yourself to make a comment and we don't hear anything I don't know if you're talking but if you are we can't hear you so maybe we continue with the discussion Mr Jen if you want to chime in please just unmute and begin talking um but Risha Jack Prema the question before you so this is my first uh food safety um hearing or or case um so how how is the how is the observations uh made are is someone there for a period like 10 minutes an hour multiple hours how is how is this how is information gathered because to me it seems like if you knew the health inspector would was coming you would want to get things in order at least you know for that time period and then uh I can see maybe a lapse but if they knew you were coming and then you saw what you saw um I'm just I'm just wondering in practice how how does a restaurant owner or or you know a kitchen respond to such inspections sure so I can speak on our general practice um with regards to health inspections in the department so every establishment in ammer is subject to two unannounced inspections that occur throughout the year these typically occur approximately six months apart uh so again these are unannounced they can occur at any time when the establishment is open for routine uh business hours and so uh the first inspection that occurred was on May 7th and this was the the first unannounced inspection for for this half of the year um and when that inspection occurred there were 11 violated Provisions related to foodborn illness uh the expectation again is is zero um and as a result of of that inspection I went back on May 16th for a reinspection I informed them that I would be back for a reinspection within a week and gave them some time to make the corrections that were necessary so they I was there for approximately an hour I think it was closer to an hour and a half I would have to check the inspection report which does State the time that I arrive and the time that I leave so those are available on all the inspection reports um but most inspections um for me are approximately an hour um and they they range from about 45 minutes to to about an hour I would say um and so when I returned on May 16th there were eight violated Provisions uh related to foodborn illness and again there were add violations this is only the 1 through 29 violations there were additional violations so on May 7th there were a total of 16 on May 16th there was a total of 13 violations so we did announce uh the reinspection date um and then over the course of the last five months some of these inspections were unannounced uh with regards to what specific date and time I would be there and some of them were specifically announced they were scheduled in inspections I informed them specifically of what time uh what date I would be arriving and part of that was to uh work cohesively with the establishment owner the persons in charge and their consultant to ensure that we would have kind of a cohesive inspection so again that's not necessarily the norm uh to have a scheduled inspection but we did work cohesively so they were anticipating me uh this last Tuesday I was expected because I did indicate on the inspection report on the 9th that I would be returning on the 15th for reinspection so I was anticipated uh that I would be back to conduct a reinspection so does that help to answer the question yes yeah the pro again my my first introduction to this type of thing so I appreciate it I have a question I was wondering if it if it felt at any point like language was a barrier and that there needed to be a translator present in terms of Co conveying the concerns and so on yes uh it did initially and so part of our initiative in in May was actually to work with the translation service that was offered through the the public health program and so uh in part of the summary that was provided to the board I indicated that in May on the 23rd I was accompanied by Olivia lahun who's our uh registered nurse our public health nurse and she had the translation service available um by telephone because we had had at that point two inspections with pretty serious violations and we were able to review those inspection reports in detail with the translation service uh with Mr gong who's one of the persons in charge and with ning who's another person in charge at The Establishment at the time Mr Jen was not in in uh the area he was not available I believe he was out of country although I I would hope he would correct me if I was wrong that was what was communicated to me um and so we did communicate the severity of the violations uh the translation service helped us with with this uh we also have pocket talk available to us this is a device that's available um and then there are a few employees at The Establishment who do help to translate um when we are uh on site but initially I did think that this could potentially be a barrier um and so we were working with you know the Consultants who are available and they are fluent in both languages so initially this was a concern that I had although this was quickly mitigated um by the communications that we had with our translation services and the resources that we have available to us thank you I I don't think I have any questions for Sasha or Susan I mean I I am regretful that we cannot speak to the establishment right now because I think my questions are really the you know the the safety has to be Paramount but obviously we also want restaurants in armmer and we want them to succeed in armmer and so what does it take to get us over these problems and and to a um you know to reopening um and what it going to need so those would have been my questions I don't think uh they can be answered by by anyone but the establishment yeah and and just in the interest of trying to have them participate I just sent an email to Mr Jang um I don't know if you have a telephone number for him Sasha because I just wonder is there something wrong with the phone is he trying to unmute and say something and he's not able to I don't there's no way to chat through this webinar feature so I just want to make sure that we make every effort to have him participate in the conversation if he wants to yeah let me give him a call thank you um I also wanted to clarify if we would you want me to hang on while Sasha uh calls Mr Jan you're sorry I was muted uh I think it's okay to keep talking to you were you going to say the same Risha so I just wanted to understand if we decide to uphold the suspension then the steps for the establishment to uh regain the license um they're established steps I'm assuming that the uh Health Department goes through yes that they um all they have to do is demonstrate to us that they have corrected violations so this is principally hangs around having a person who's in charge who's trained and and able to make sure that uh they are uh engaging in safe practices you know you just have someone on site who's who's certified the certification itself is supposed to be a demonstration that um the person in charge is knowledgeable stands the requirements you have to make sure you're sending workers to wash their hands regularly and appropriately that they're using gloves appropriately that they're cooking food to the right temperature you're not serving um undercooked food that could make people sick you no one wants to eat undercooked chicken um that's a real safety hazard um no one's taking um gloves that are Laden with raw chicken and scooping out by hand uh rice to stick on a a plate that is going to be sent out to the dining room for someone to eat um that that's supposed to be but when it can't be demonstrated when you have the certificate and despite having it you do not exercise your knowledge in an appropriate way and supervise the staff um to do all of these things appropriately that's where we're at and and this is all we have ever asked so so throughout all these inspections and reinspection through throughout the training with a consultant it's we have always asked the same thing just demonstrate that um you can effectively utilize safe practices and so as soon as they they are prepared to do that um we we would have that discussion um and we would go in and um uh reinspect and if we see those safe practices in place we would allow them to um uh uh uh operate again so so yeah it it's um it's it's pretty straightforward just have to do the right thing thank you so Sasha did get in touch with Mr Jen and he's rejoined I'm trying to make sure he can unmute and join the conversation she's on the phone with him right now e while we're waiting Kiko I I just wanted to add one more comment oh I think he's on now he's coming okay we go ahead Mr z Mr Jen can you hear us uh it looks like he's unmuted you look to be unmuted but we don't hear anything at least I don't Sasha how about his V volume does he need to increase the volume or and Sasha you're muted if you're talking to us you're muted as well right now Mr Shen can you turn up the volume on your phone he can hear us oh how funny we just can't hear him are you able but you can hear him Sasha I just had him on the phone I'll call him back can you because the what you could do is put on speaker in your Cube and maybe we can hear him that way okay I think we if if that works we might want to mute his call in okay I just did that okay and um it may be that he doesn't have zoom on his phone so the the capability is not there for him to talk I don't know his probably his mic is not activated on his telephone okay can you hear us okay okay so Mr J we can hear you on the zoom okay oh yeah yeah now I can hear okay okay yeah I so I'm not in good condition right now but first i'm very apiz for the foration and we are working very hard for improve yeah right now still have the St working in the kchen right they they clean every corner every deep cleaning and sanitize I just want to Contin into service this community and also appreciate the the S inspector to help us improve and uh appreciate all the local customer always supporting us and we we want to return to them and we we still trading we still working hard I don't know how what can I say right now sorry yeah thank you Mr Jen I think Risha has a question for you our Board of Health chair did did you want to ask your questions from before sure um and thank you and I think we share the same goal of wanting to have you reopened and safely um operating as a restaurant in armmer um is there anything that you have identified that you require in order to be able to meet the requirements um yeah we we totally have yeah we we believe we can do much better okay um and is there a plan from your end to on how you're going to be able to to fix the everybody know improve learning and training and we want to make a big manager team yeah not only one one person CH we want to make a at least four four people CH make a group to make a very strong marriage and yeah all all we can think all we can talk we we've been service this area for many many years and we we want to continue in the because the local customer always supporting us and we want to do better and better service yes well and I think we all hope that this can happen um swiftly and and have you resume I don't I don't hear anything that would um indicate overturning the suspension from our side um so I'm wondering if anybody else has any questions um I I wondered has this come up with this establishment before because they've been in town for a number of years I don't know Sasha if you can speak to that if you're new or iart in February so I would like to turn that over to Susan so when I came on board um almost 10 years ago the establishment had significant violations that had been inspected by Ed Smith at that time and worked over a number of weeks to make improvements a lot of them were revolving more around cleanliness um and sanitation than other practices um then again approximately I don't recall the exact time but approximately 5 years ago was preco um we were seeing High numbers of violations again and it was similar in that I was going back and doing a number of reinspection and education and talking um we had a meeting again Mr um Jane came in met with me and with Ed Smith and at that time I ordered a consultant um that he worked with a consultant and I specified the number of weeks and hours and um topics of training to take place so that took place over um a few months period of time and at the end of it um we saw a significant Improvement um and then over the more recent years in doing inspections I did see a number of violations but not to the extent that we're experiencing um in uh this year so this this has been uh this is not the first time we we've seen these issues um my my question to Mr Zang would mainly be um what would he propose to do differently we we really have tried uh to do everything and I um would have to know that there's a person in charge that is capable of uh uh supervising safe practices and if he has a plan uh who who would he hire and and and all so the extensive days and hours of operation would require that there not just be one person who is qualified but there has to be a person on site at all times that the food is being prepared and served so we're talking about two or three people who would be fully qualified to to ensure food safety and so that that's I hope that answers your question my question yes and I think he did say that they were going to be four people he did but he you know we just went through that where he supposedly trained four people uh and when Sasha returned to do the re inspections none of them were um following safe practices it's really kind of surprising to me that we're we're at this point uh that that it's it's pretty clear what has to be accomplished and all of our other restaurants are much more successful in doing this they might not be perfect but they're can successfully uh manage it uh to uh follow through uh in safe practices which they have already been trained and then retrained and retrained again to do so I think that we would have to to vote on whether to uphold the suspension or overturn the suspension um I I do wish that there was a clearer path to getting this license R you know back inated um and meeting all of the guidelines but um I'm not sure that there's much that this board can do um from what we've heard at this point does anyone before we um take a vote does anyone have any last comments or questions and that includes Mr Jane okay if not um does anyone one want to move uh to uphold the suspension when I have a question when is the soon as it could get resolved I think it would be the next inspection within a week if Mr Zang hires someone who is qualified and calls us in to and we would uh reinspect and he could demonstrate that this person is able to supervise and implement the safe practices it could be as fast as that absolutely as long as someone's in place and Mr Zang has understands that correct Mr Shen can you please confirm that you understand that Mr Jen do you understand okay I'm happy to re-explain so the soonest that we would be able to reopen The Establishment would be or to overturn essentially the suspension would be as as soon as you are able to hire a person in charge who is able to demonstrate their knowledge and perform the duties of a person in charge as indicated by having no violations numbers 1 through 29 which are the provisions related to foodborn illness which could be as right as as soon as you're able to hire somebody who's able to demonstrate that there are zero violations of numbers 1 through 29 and then you would call us in and we would conduct the inspection again this is new to me uh how do you find someone like that I mean is there do they have to be do they need is there a course or training or how do how does he know that he's getting that person sure it's a great question so one way that we have there are a couple ways to demonstrate a person in charge right but a person in charge is somebody who holds a food protection manager certificate and an allergy and awareness certificate okay and typically across our ammer establishments most persons in charge who hold the food protection manager certificate and the allergen awareness certificate can appropriately demonstrate the duties of a person in charge and perform those duties effectively so typically when somebody holds that certificate as a person a food protection manager certificate and the allergy and awareness CER certificate which are requirements of being a person in charge usually they're able to demonstrate that knowledge because they've gained that knowledge by completing that appropriate certification typically they would be able to demonstrate that knowledge and perform those effective duties Su do you have anything that you'd like to add to that no I think that that's it but um Mr saying you you've engaged a consultant and the consultant was an effective person uh and knowledgeable in their ability to train so perhaps the consultant would be helpful to you in assessing uh the skills and competency of a candidate uh that you could interview uh for the position uh multiple positions so I would say I would say utilize your consultant again and and try to establish someone try to obtain someone that will be able to be effective in the job will be able to do the job does that make sense Mr Jen did he hear you is he still there you still here Mr Shan yeah okay ask Mr Shen is ning with you okay the call just disconnected I'm G to go ahead and call him back I also wonder whether it would be a good idea I mean what I'm what I'm hearing is that you are that the board is essentially going to make a motion to allow this suspension to stand and that I and that until there is a competent person in charge who through the inspections that you conduct demonstrates that they're able to allow you know show hold other people to food safe practices I think that it would be important to put this in writing in Mandarin and I think that we can do that quickly with our translation service so that it's Crystal Clear to Dr Jang and others that he works with Dr Jang Mr Jang what's happening um so that would be my suggestion um would be great if we could get him back on the phone if not it seems like you can proceed with what you were going to um motion Risha yeah so do do I have a motion to either allow the suspension or overturn the suspension motion to allow or uphold of the suspension and second it okay so all those in agreement with upholding the suspension prola I jack I and I um but I I agree with Kos it does not feel like we had uh clear communication during this um this meeting um and if there are steps that we can take to make sure that language and uh technology is not the barrier here okay thank you everyone yeah thank you very much for all of this work thank you Sasha and Susan thank you thank you all for listening okay I'm Mr Jen is still showing up as a panelist but since we're moving on to the next agenda item I'm and since I don't have contact with him I'm just going to remove him as a panelist right now we'll move on to the last agenda item under this new business um so this is um the body art regulations um and reviewing the provision requiring a course on anatomy and physiology I will say that there are a couple of other things that have come up that Susan has brought to my attention in reviewing the new regulations and in translating those to the new paperwork that needs to be um designed for folks that are applying for their licenses so there may be more things to discuss which Susan can give us a little um preview of but for now the focus is on this particular issue of the course on anatomy and physiology and reisha I'm going to turn it to you because I know you yeah I'm actually going to suggest given that we have 10 minutes left uh that this might need to get pushed to the next meeting um I don't know if we want to give a an intro of what the issue is but not actually discuss any of the um possible solutions or or intricacy intricacies um or if we just want to say let's move the whole discussion till next month yeah I mean that's certainly a option I mean I think it's also I mean just just to put it out there the meeting doesn't have to end at 700 unless people have not not the ability to stay on after seven which I completely respect and understand but I just want to put that out there yeah I don't have the ability to stay on past seven perfect okay no worries um so I mean I I can give the brief uh overview that I understand which is that we have put out body art regulations um just about a year ago I think they were passed and and uh someone from Northampton a piercer went to get a license in ammer and uh didn't meet the requirement of the anatomy course um and has asked if a different course that's a skin for piercers course would suffice um it does not seem to have the same kind of um content that you would expect for an anatomy for a piercer and um in looking further there aren't a lot of courses um it is a state regulation but we have to figure out how it is uh what is possible to meet this standard and um what we want to do for this specific person maybe Kiko you can just say what you've done in the meantime so that we haven't held him up uh yeah so in the meantime we did allow the skin course we just sort of grandfathered that in given that this was all new and we needed to discuss it you all needed to discuss it at the board so that particular this person that you're referring to the one who was licensed in Northampton for many years where they also do have a provision in their regulations that there be anatomy and physiology course taken is did get their license to practice in ammer so but I think what we want to do is make sure that we have these things addressed and we have the forms updated with all the necessary requirements per the new regulations when the new um uh applications are coming in for renewals and that's happening now and as Susan's pointed out there is only one body art establishment in ammer so it's not like there's a ton of things a ton of applications that will be coming in but it will be important to have um and we can prepare for it as I said Susan does have some other questions so in addition to this question about the anatomy and physiology course which is that's a question of accessibility to that course there are a lot of issues about how challenging it may or may not be to access it you know and how if if someone can't take a course would the board accept something else that is you know deemed acceptable substitute those are the kinds of things that the board would need to talk about at the next meeting so shall we move to your update sure I can be brief um so we've been planning covid and flu clinics um again in partnership with the Northampton Department of Health and Human Services because they have a regional Grant through Public Health Excellence program which allows them to share resources and vaccines so we are doing our first big Clinic here at the bangs on October 21st press release went out we actually have about 50 people signed up already and we will be able to accommodate some walk-ins so it's a pretty good um volume and then a second one on November 13th also at the bangs this October 21st one is in the evening which seems to be popular and the November 13th one will be in the afternoon so those are happening um and we are again relying on Northampton staff to and their volunteers from the Medical Reserve Court to do that but we're getting a good response so far we're also doing a few other vaccine clinics um at some of the public housing complexes at Clark house and an whan just across the com the you know beautiful Park from us here at the banks um and getting good response to that as well so just doing our best to try to build community immunity when it comes to respiratory illness um any questions about that okay and we're also doing home vaccines so Olivia is available to make appointments for folks who aren't able to get themselves to a clinic um that's something that we always offer um for mosquito surveillance it was an interesting year in terms of mosquito born illness with three cases of Triple E in the state of Massachusetts it's been a while since we've had cases of Eastern equine and sephtis in humans it's been I think since 2019 so as far as I know none of those cases resulted in none of those folks died um there was a death New Hampshire from of someone who had triple E so we had triple E back in the mix for a while that we haven't had for a while not not in the Pioneer Valley not in Hampshire County um there were no mosquitoes that tested positive for Triple E in our area we do have that contract with pyer Valley mosquito control district they do a very thorough job of mosquito testing last year at the very end of the season um they found a West Nile positive mosquito this year we did not have any westnile positive mosquitoes um and and there was treatment early treatment that was done in the early summer to in the area in that area that had tested that had the mosquito testing positive last year whether that had an impact on what we saw I don't know but it's certainly lovely that we didn't have any mosquitoes testing positive for either of those illnesses in our area um there were cases of westn virus in the Commonwealth at about the same level that we see normally so um it was an interesting year it got colder faster this summer we it started to get chilly in the evenings and John Briggs the mosquito the Pioneer Valley mosquito control district director was saying he was catching fewer mosquitoes in August this year than he did last so anyway sort of a mixed season in that respect um but good and that we didn't have to call off evening activities or anything like that which is something that we do do if there's a risk of Triple E because the fatality rate is so high from that disease so that's the update on mosquito any questions about that mosquitoes okay um and then just from a staffing standpoint I think you all know that Kyle o Conor did leave the department we knew that was going to happen he graduated stayed with us through the summer and then got a great job with the wor Worcester Department of Public Health as a tobacco prevention specialist so he started last week and we're very excited for him that he is a fully-fledged public health professional working in another a big Health Department so it's exciting for him big loss for us we really miss him but we are doing interviews for a part-time person to fill his shoes so I did interviews this week and we have a couple promising candidates so hoping that we will have a part-time person to do a lot of his responsibilities handling inquiries helping to manage the clinics um doing Outreach that sort of thing um and then finally um I wanted to just ask about our future meeting dates um we had formly been meeting on the 2 Thursday from 5: until 7 and that's not a date that Jack can make all the time like four times a year that doesn't work for you right jack correct so we definitely want to have we don't want to have Jack miss four meetings a year so the what I was going to propose sounds like it might work is the third Thursday which is what today is um from 5: until 7 that does work for Dia normally didn't work for her today unfortunately and it does seem like it works for Betsy does that work for everybody else just trying to make this easy I think that for me I think generally yes I'd have to look at a calendar and make sure we don't hit any holidays and whatnot but generally yes yeah I think I'm I know I'm always really want to be conscious about um the Jewish holidays which some sometimes sometimes are not on the radar um but I think there might be a conflict next year this year uh the Jewish High holidays aren are over pretty much or just so coot is right now um but but I think that it doesn't conflict with Thanksgiving because that's always the fourth Thursday of the month so um hopefully that can work and so let's say that provisionally if that sounds okay and then if if it turns out to be something if you look in 2025 and you see any of you lots of conflicts for third Thursday we can revisit but let's plan for that and you know maybe be in touch we'll be in touch before the next meeting to make sure that there aren't any conflex going forward so then the next meeting is the 21st of November right that's correct does November 21st look good for everybody yes for me for you too Jack I'm I'm looking you're checking okay uh yeah for some reason I have that that meeting is on that day really why would it be one two H uh I think it's just an odd scheduling because it's not it's not I don't know maybe because of thing Thanksgiving they they did that or something that's what you want to clarify if that's a one time or a I don't want to switch our entire meetings to the third Thursday and then there there that's I think it's only because of Thanksgiving that that happened that okay so you could meet the second Thursday of next month which is the 14th yes okay so maybe it has to be the 14th next month but but then are you are you yeah then then then the rest it's always the the fourth one okay oh the fourth one I thought it was the second one the second Thursday uh no it's the fourth Thursday and then occasionally qu it's a I think it's a second Thursday qu oh okay so okay so I think for November we keep it the 14th and then uh after that we will move it to the third Thursday yeah which in which in December would be let's just make sure it's not a conflict quickly for anybody it's the 19th okay okay that sounds okay all right let's do that provisionally barring any unforeseen changes that people need to make just be in touch with me if there are any conflicts yeah again I think it's because of um the holidays or whatever that it's this wonky but yeah I this this is I think more important than the other but or maybe I'll alternate okay it's the pioner valley yeah as long as you can make the 14th then maybe we can relook at that with you yeah yeah let's do that and and hopefully that'll be a day that works for everyone so we can have everybody um and maybe an inperson meeting we can talk about that later so that would be great all right I think I have to officially adjourn which is actually get rid of not start a meeting um as I said at the beginning of this meeting so is that a vote thing or can I just adjourn a meeting I think we've always voted to adjourn before I don't know if I know I'll look up if these are required um can I get someone who uh motions to adjourn the meeting so moved I think I can second so I second you have to all [Laughter] right thank you okay thanks everyone we'll talk Kiko can I speak with you briefly before you yeah no problem thanks everybody bye bye I'll stay on for you sus bye okay thanks so much for everything Susan this is still being recorded so we should I'll just call you I'll jump okay call me thank you all right sure take care okay so she's