you're dressed for the hello and welcome to the March 27 2024 Conservation Commission meeting the time is 7:04 um members are all present except Laura um staff present are Aaron jock Dave zc is not here tonight um okay so chair report um I'll just mention that I went to the Massachusetts land trust Coalition meeting uh I think that's what it's called on Saturday and there were some really great presentations that were very much geared towards land managing managing organizations including municipalities um especially with DCR Outreach and like Forest cutting plans and some things that were kind of relevant to Our Land Management uh subcommittee talks so I got some um literature and booklets and we'll have some reports for the next subcommittee meeting um okay director is not here so on to minutes from 3:13 is this just an approval of them I move that we approve the minutes is my microphone off yeah yes just waiting for a second oh I will second that all right Alex on the motion Jason on the second um Andre hi Bruce hi Jason hi Alex hi right we just passed okay Land Management updates the osrp I saw that the deadline has been extended but do you have updates on that one Erin I don't um it's been extremely busy and I know um everybody is really busy and I know they were trying to give it a little more time and um putting out extending it to additional um groups and uh like the schools um the colleges Etc so we were trying to just get as much input as we could um so I think that's why it was extended okay all right well that's it for that um I think we can move on to land use applications um we're a little ahead of schedule but why don't you just yeah Us in I see Scott Jackson is here yeah yeah why don't we pull him in and do the um um sorry Springs first so commissioner this is a reoccurring um land use application um so we've had it ever since I've been on the commission um hello Scott welcome thank you good evening everybody thanks for having me do you want to just give us a brief uh introduction to the course uh just because we see it every year let everybody know yeah sure um I'm Scott and I'm an extension professor at UMass and um since the 1990s I've been teaching a course on Wetlands assessment and field techniques pretty much every other year uh since about 1992 and um over that period of time I've searched and searched for Wetlands that would be suitable for the course that are not too far from campus and I found a real gem in South amorist uh The Plum Springs Conservation Area and I've been using it for a number of years for the course um I have 26 students that are registered for the course the lab the field lab is divided into two sessions um so there's one that's going to be 10 or 11 people and another that's like 15 to 17 depending on sometimes people switch um we're going to be out there for 10 10 times total uh so five for each of the lab sessions it begins in April the first Friday in April and then runs mostly Fridays and and Mondays until um early May and the basically the only impact that we have other than uh trampling around through the through the woods and through the wetlands is for the Wetland delineation lab we will dig some soil pits in order to examine the soil and then fill them back in when we're done and for one other lab we will put up flagging tape in order to delineate an assessment area which we will then remove that same day as we uh as we leave uh otherwise we're mostly there with clipboards and pencils and uh they're recording things on field data sheets in order to write up reports about things like wildlife habitat evaluation Wetland delineation functional assessment condition assessment and things like that great thank you um Commissioners any questions for Scott no okay thanks for showing up to tell us about it um all right so do we just need a motion to approve this land use application Aon have a yes there's no there's no motion drafted but it is clu2 24-3 so just a motion to approve clu2 24-3 so moved second Andre on the motion Jason on the second yes Andre hi Bruce yes hi Jason Hi Alex microphone's off Alex hi I'm an i all right thank you Scott thank you very much Commissioners good night night okay um the next one is the grth Park trails for an information hike do we have someone here for that um I don't believe so but if um if somebody is here and I was unaware that they were attending feel free to raise your hands um I can give you kind of a quick snapshot of this um so the the grath park property is actually um owned and managed by the Recreation Commission and the land on which the Emily Dickinson Trail is located is actually ammer College property um however the conservation department has an agreement with the recreation department and ammer college to maintain the trail that goes from gra Park to um the parking area for the um bike path so the the application was is coming to us strictly for the you know our jurisdiction of Maintenance of the trail system it's not our not that we actually own the property um and the purpose of this is a a partnership with the Recreation Commission and kestral land trust um and they are um uh talking about sort of fish migration I know Brian Yellen is going to be um one of the the speakers and um talking about preservation of the river the rivers that feed um the Fort River and um learning about migratory fish insects shellfish um and take a half mile walk along the Emily Dickinson Trail open to all ages so it's like a program that the recreation department is offering so kind of a feel-good thing lampre right go ahead Bruce Bruce knows about this stretch um two quick points the Fort River Watershed Association was got the grant to rehabilitate the trail and put up all those little co Q code markers that tell the story of the river and it was through C with we're a fiscal um partner of CRC so there's that and then it will be you should sign up because Brian knows a lot but it's also going to be really entertaining and funny because he is wearing a boot because he ruptured his Achilles tendon and so him doing this talk by hobbling along the trail will be very entertaining so I encourage you to attend a little sadistic but okay I was interested in Lampe um all right what's what's the date again April 1 or I don't have it in front of sorry I just closed my screen when you asked um April 5th from 3 to 4:30 and in case anyone is interested this is um cl- 24-2 are they going in the river well I guess Brian won't be but oh okay so just like pointing at things on the trail okay no Nets or I he didn't say so all right all right Commissioners any questions on this fun all right looking for a motion to approve the use of Gro Park trails for informational hike with castol Van trust and emre department so move I was second Alex on the motion Jason on the second Bruce hi Jason Hi Andre hi Alex hi okay um um all right so next up we have a policy discussion so this is um I think it was last meeting Alex requested that we uh set aside some time for some sort of basic discussions about uh the bylaw and the WPA policy and uh we have some time this meeting uh to discuss that so I thought we could set aside about 20 minutes more or less about this um we didn't have anything to distribute Alex has something but he didn't have a chance to distribute it to the commissioners before the meeting so I think he's I'm going to give him the floor and I think this is going to be sort of an introduction to a review of a certain component of our bylaws and um I'll just let I'll just let you talk Alex so why don't you take five and introduce us and Alex if at some point you want to put up uh any information on the screen just feel free to share your screen yeah if Aon um Aon can can you share that Aaron you're on mute okay I can do that but it would okay so I'm going to talk a little bit about the 20% threshold that we deal with all the time on applications um that's sometimes we talk about mitigating the impacts of altering um areas within the 100 foot buffer and uh there is an allowance in um is the way it's referred to in the RS so what I did was I brought up I wrote up like a four-page document that uh three-page document that or copies the pertinent parts of the RS and if we could go to part two lower Pages I'll just show them that so what we're going to do is zip through this real quick and uh we'll have a little bit of a discussion but then you'll have the documents sent out to you to look at uh can you yeah just go up to the top um top part where it says amous Wetland rigs can I do that do you want do you want to start at the beginning of the regulations or do you w to um no just on my sheet at the top it says am reg regulations um is this is this Alex's sheet okay so you're in actual bylaws but Alex had like a informational sheet okay I don't have that yeah I emailed it to you oh you did okay hold on a second I'm like having an issue here let's give let's give Aon a minute and you can talk go ahead Bruce um while Aaron is looking for that it's on page 52 of the if you can if I can share my screen I've got it up so I'm going to go back to zoom and find where share is share screen post is disabled participation screen sharing I just got it on the screen um but I can if you'd rather I can switch it to you okay so we're going to look at the right hand side because just to tell you that it's there no the the next the next page eron okay on the right I'm just going to show you that what I did was uh um I'm going to talk about the leftand side in a minute but everything I talk about on the leftand side is on the right hand side plus another part of a page what I did is I pulled from the regulations everything that I talk about on the leftand side so when you look at this at home you don't necessarily have to go to the regs itself I did it for you and I've you can see exactly where I pulled information from so um I'm not going to spend time on it I'm just telling you it's there and um in between now and the next time we schedule a a talk on this you can look it over so right now I just want to switch to page one so if you could just make a full page of page one eron that would be delightful there you go and um I'm going to make it bigger on my screen okay so purpose here is to just review the context of the 20% threshold and which is identified in the regulations um courtesy of Aaron you have a link there to that section and then consider some Identify some considerations sort of the context for this and then invite discussion so we'll have some of we we'll go through the considerations now have whatever discussion you want and then in another meeting we'll continue the discussion after you have familiarized yourself some more with this and given it some thought so to begin with if we go down to the bottom of this before I go down through the considerations ER and if you just go flip down to questions um I'll just tell you what questions I posed and should there be clarification about how the 20% is calculated particularly for long linear resources uh such as a stream or a wetland and are the conditions for the commission approving alteration inside the 100 foot buffer well understood by applicants and consultants and if not how best to improve on that and is the 20% threshold providing the protection that is intended so U we're not going to come to any conclusions tonight we're just going to begin a dialogue and try and wrap our head around uh the 20% and how it's presented in the rigs which Aaron wrote along with Michelle and some others so they're very familiar with this but um you know I'm I wasn't around when they wrote this and uh uh the rest of us were not so it's helpful to just refresh our memory so anyways there is 100 foot 100 feet from Wetlands can be considered a no disturb area and that's presented in the in the Preamble which has no teeth it's just um to kind of frame the area um and the and it is allowed that uh the commission may underscored allow alteration of up to 20% uh within the 50 to 100 foot buffer not from the 50 to the Wetland and there's a provided and I discuss that below which we'll get to that's in number nine so it's not necessarily card blanch it's not an allowance that's handed out freely on a regular basis or not supposed to be so alteration is specifically identified to the exclusion of other activities such as removing filling dredging building upon degrading or discharging into a stream and it's interesting that when Aaron and and others wrote this they chose alteration which uh and that's the only thing that is mentioned as being allowed number four the 100 foot buffer can be uh in may be insufficient to protect many of the important Wetland characteristics and values um that's stated in in the wetlands rigs it might be might be a part of the Preamble um negative effects may happen immediately over time as a consequence of construction and as a consequence of daily operation and um we're supposed to think about all of those Alex just to keep track on time if we're going to go through all of these um because people can read it on their own time but is there anything you want to call out specifically under considerations or should we go to questions and possibly open it up for discussion okay let me flip down to number nine so the bottom line uh I thought we had 20 minutes okay yeah but I also see that our first um noi is at 7:30 so we'll try and sort of keep the time so the bottom line the commission may allow the alteration of up to 20% within the 50 Foot to 100 foot buffer provided it is convinced based on evidence it deems sufficient that the proposed alteration will not have significant adverse impact on the resource area and will not harm the resource area values protected by law and that's something that provided is something that uh uh we could probably pay more attention to and like I'd like to have discussion about leader but so in practice the commission has approved mitigation we're all aware of that for impacts within the 100 foot buffer and if the commission continues that practice the commission I this is me talking now should uh be assured that the mitigation if it approves will be in full effect for the life of the project and I think that's something we should talk about so that's all I have to say to introduce this BR hands are up I don't know who came up first Andre I'll I'll I'll feel that um first I just want to go to Aaron and just confirm with Aaron that everything has been presented you know to spec I mean the only thing I would comment on is that we didn't write the regulations we revised we Revisited and revised regulations in 2020 I think so um Aon and me and Leroy were not the primary authors of this but I just to clarify but Aaron everything is fine is as presented okay then I'm going to go to Andre who hand was up first go ahead Andre all right yeah just a simple uh question Alex you were talking about um what is permitted you noted that uh what was uh written into the regulation is um the word alteration and um I suppose what that brings to mind is uh us needing to make sure that we have a good definition of uh alteration and it should be defined I would imagine at the very beginning of the of those Rags I didn't look up in the definitions but I okay so if you do and it's typically at the at the beginning um after it talks about uh um where the authority is from it but that would be one place to uh to kind of set your eyes or set our eyes um to get that definition and and have it um have something that we what we know and alteration is and if not then I think we may what was significant to me is that alteration is a is a series of is in a series of words and although I was happy to give credit to Aaron and Michelle and others for writing them wish they declined um um it's per it's interesting to me that it's those other things are left out purposely yep yep no I I I get it yep so what is allowed is if it if uh the Conservation Commission uh determines to do so is the alteration right yeah well as opposed to building for example so that's what we that's where we need to kind of focus I suppose I I was also uh on the uh not on the commission when we re revise these but um I won't take credit for writing them but yeah we all revise them anyway can you guys see the definition of alter here did it switch over for you yeah yeah okay that's perfect that's great okay Jason unless Bruce you had your hand up I see quickly um do we have any background information on how 20% came to be the number I can address that um I'm just going to stop sharing because it's really hard for me to like communicate with you guys when I'm not seeing your faces so um buffer zone was in the previous iteration of the regulations in my opinion buffer zone was not treated as a resource area it was treated as a buffer zone and as a result of that um my observation was that like back when these were the original version we started with there was a 35 foot um setback and I felt like that was definitely not sufficient and as a result of that what we were seeing were people pushing right up to that 30 foot line and also altering everything outside of 35 ft so putting parking lots putting buildings Etc and I just felt like that that um level of impact to the Wetland was was really really I was seeing significant issues with it so that's why the buffer zone sort of and it is under our bylaw as a resource area a protected resource area so I framed it out as such and defined it and you know I I did do research into many surrounding towns and not just surrounding towns as in Northampton South Hadley Sunderland belra town but also um other towns I was familiar with in Central and Eastern Mass that had strong bylaws and one thing I found which was in and actually the Northampton bylaw and I really liked it was so in addition to making the no disturb zone of 50 foot I also liked the idea of limiting the amount of alteration that could take place between 50 and 100 feet and Northampton had a really great um uh section of their bylaw that basically stated they only allowed alteration of 20% of the bylaw on a given property and so that's where that came from I really liked the concept of limiting the amount of alteration that we allowed outside of that um 50 foot no disturb buffer all right so there you have it 20% um and I think in that discussion years ago we talked about how that allowed some development to move forward when like for example in Northampton it's pretty impacted and urban in a lot of ways and so there's like um subjectivity always but um to allow some development to take place with the you know commissioner approval within the buffer go ahead Jason yeah thank you I was also going to bring up the definition uh that Andre brought up and just ask I want to ask Alex what his I wasn't quite sure what that sentence that was on the screen regarding alteration what could you just flesh that out a little bit more Alex why was that a consideration and what was it which sentence that alteration means to the exclusion of the following yeah so there's there's um yeah there it is there's below that is a whole list of things that are not allowed filling removing dredging building upon degrading discharging and in the RS when it was revised they chose to use the word alter and as which to me means it's none of the other words it's alter does not mean removing filling dredging building upon so on and so forth but it does in our definition excuse me alter means without limitation the following actions when undertaken upon or affecting any of the areas subject to protection under the bylaw list in Section 1 C1 removal excavation dredging of soil sand so all of these things under alter are allowed yeah correctly it's confusing isn't it yeah that uh no I think it means without limitation these following actions are allowed at the discretion of the commission like this is Alter like you can build um you can build in the resource area right or in the in the in whatever area we're saying is the resource area you can drive piles or erect a building or a structure of any kind but it has to meet these other criteria first right you can't alter more than 20% of of the resource area right yeah you're absolutely right and I I frankly didn't go to the definition of alter so my number three point uh needs some modification okay great all right I was just seeking clarification on that no you're you you I'll fix it Andre yeah um it it does kind of get a little confusing when we're looking at the uh what so oh okay so the one who wrote um alteration is specifically identified to the exclusion of other activities that's me you wrote that I did okay all right got it I did and uh I what I should have done is gone to the definition of uh alteration um yeah and you know I I I have to admit I had a limited amount of time to get this done today and uh I didn't do that so most of this stuff around page 52 and uh I didn't have time to I just should have done it and didn't do it and will do it so I'm in error and we'll just move on it's not at the exclusion of the thanks for the clarification yeah good discussion um so maybe if there's any other questions we should focus on the questions that Alex defined rather than maybe some of items that need a bit tweaking I know did this in a hurry because he had some other work he was doing okay so all right one through three maybe Commissioners if you have time um in the next two weeks to I assume Alex you'll maybe provide this in an updated form um yeah I'll um I'll make the correction that Jason pointed out and sorry about that but the point is to get this conversation going yeah it's drawing attention to the definitions and that's really important so and also just focusing on these questions sort of our homework for further discussion uh go ahead Bruce just so we should try hard to get the materials to Aon in the same way the applicants do uh ahead at least if we can a week ahead of time so that we've done our work and then people can have time to read it before the meeting yeah so we UND it's just talked with Alex very briefly about this um because this is a fairly light agenda tonight so we saw an opening to at least discuss it tonight probably next meeting we will not have an opportunity to do it but it's been posed and here it is and here's the introduction to it so everybody can mul it over for the next month and think about it um but yeah this probably won't be coming to us for another four weeks real two at least two weeks in advance Bruce good all right um okay thank you Alex for that and just you know keeping us fresh on our Rags um so everybody to the discussion sorry I look forward to the discussion yeah it's it'll be we could spend a whole two hours on this um okay so I think we can now move on to our first hearing this is open already right Erin um yes it okay yes great okay so there's still some more butter notification with this one it looks like yeah they just got their a Butter's list like a day or two ago so they didn't have time to notify in time for this meeting um and so they're they're working on that and they'll be ready for the 10th okay so we're looking for a a motion to continue on this one so this go for it just read the noi I move to issue a continuation of public hearing for 214 Main Street De number 08907 33 to uh April 10th 2024 at 755 second Bruce on the motion Andre on the second Bruce hi Jason Hi Andre hi Alex hi and I and I realized so all and I I'm and I um I realized I I didn't read the noi so this is the notice of intent for Berkshire Design Group on behalf of Emily Dickinson museum for the construction of a historical Carriage House and Associated site workor in the buffer zone to bordering vegetated Wetlands at 214 Main Street map 14b lot 26 if anybody's calling in okay uh next up I think we have Ward here are there any um any other representative to pull in Ain I'll let you do that so this is notice of intent uh W Wetland services on behalf of Kevin and Mary O'Brien for the construction of a new 1200 squ foot single family home and Associated sitework within Riverfront area of Eastman Brook at 260 lever road map 3A lot 50 this project is proposed as a Riv front Redevelopment project replacing an existing garage and chicken coop structure so we're going to give Aaron five minutes I welcome hi um five minutes for Aaron um and then Bard I'll give you your five and then we'll hear from the public if there's any public comments and then commissioner questions all right Erin um and I just I see Kevin but I don't see his last name if that's um Kevin as in the owner of the property and you want to join us Kevin O'Brien uh I can bring you in too um okay so I'll promote you to panelist and I'll just give a quick intro so um this property 260 lever Road um came to us um when Mr O'Brien purchased the property um there's a historic home on the site already and um he was looking to make it um handicap accessible but there are constraints with the construction of the historic home to to sort of bring it into accessibility standard and so um he was my understanding from speaking with the planning Department he was looking to basically um build a new house on the site of the existing historic home and the uh historic commission and/or planning department um kind of uh well there was a a demolition DeLay So they were working with him to try to come up with a solution to save the historic home and the solution was basically for him to construct the home he was looking to construct in a different area of the property preserving the historic home and its existing footprint and just for the um sake of understanding the historic home is outside of jurisdiction this home is um in the riverfront area but it's between the um 100 foot and 200 foot so the outer riparian zone and um uh they're also looking to redevelop the footprint of the existing there's an existing pretty significant chicken Coupe structure that's already located on the location where he wishes to put the new construction um based on all things considered and even just looking at the overall size of the property I don't um I don't have any concerns about you know replacing the footprint of the chicken coupe with a with a new home um we did discuss and I made recommendations in the field about establishing a permanent mitigation area in the existing Wetland location um which borders the Eastman Brook and Ward um took my comments into consideration and submitted a mitigation plan um that basically it's a pretty significant planting plan and they would demarcate that area um with boulders to be a permanent um mitigation area on site that wouldn't be touched in perpetuity so I feel like there's sort of a balancing of Interest here but overall I feel like it's um you know we've worked together to try to come up with a a um a worthwhile um mitigation plan to compensate for the construction of the home um one point I will make which I think is really important here is the entire site was not delineated with this um uh notice of intent so only portions of the property were delineated and so it's really important that when we issue the order of conditions that um that's noted on the record that only portions of the site where the flagging um is located were um were delineated so so thanks sarin Ward do you want to give us a presentation here yeah just I don't know if you have a um screenshot of the of the plan Erin you can you can show um sure I don't know if you you guys are some of you are familiar with it I'm sure but there's a paveed driveway as you look at the site to the west of Leverett Road it's a paved driveway that goes in existing houses to the right chicken coup is to the right to the left is The Perennial stream with a bordering vegetated Wetland and a strip of um Riverfront area that's outside of the Wetland that's mainly golden rods and grasses um yeah you can see that oh did you want me to pull up the mitigation plan or the no this is this is fine this is fine for now so you can see the driveway kind of in the middle there um all the work is going to take place proposed work would take place away from The Perennial stream on the other side of the existing paveed driveway um as Erin said most of the new house location will be within the the footprint of a of a chicken Coupe um there will be a total of 2,604 square feet of New Impact and most of that's for septic system and some lines that are going to go underground but we're proposing to mitigate that at a 2:1 ratio but most of that is most of that area although we're counting it as disturbance is currently lawn and we'll go back to lawn so it's not going to be a structure or anything like that so we're proposing to do over 5,000 square feet of mitigation in the lower part of your plan you see your proposed mitigation area um will be a total of 55 shrubs are proposed to be planted so that'll be even distributed between Witter Berry Holly spice bush Silky Dogwood High Bush blueberry and high Bush cranberry and then if you can I don't know if you can pan down can't quite see it but on the other side of this perennial stream there's a line of evergreen trees kind of along the property line there that are dying and so we're proposing to plant 10 trees there uh split between black willow and swamp white oak to eventually replace those Evergreens when when they die and then the third thing as Erin recommended is we're proposing to put a row of Boulders at um 20 to 25 foot intervals along the edge of the mitigation area so that will be um a clear limit of work area so there'll be no further mowing or any kind of intrusion outside of the existing lawn so these are the the trees that um Ward is referencing and this is um a portion of the area the Wetland area but you can see like um to the right of where Bruce is in this photo there's um there like some grasses on either side of the of the stream and so those are the areas where we had discussed um doing some of the areas we'd prop right here uh doing the um plantings and in the back there you can see that area on the other side of the brook is where um that would be planted with trees yeah the same in that picture so yeah and all along here on the other side of the apple trees would be all uh plantings right now like I said it's mostly golden rods in the in the non Wetland and then um there's some Cattail Reed canary grass we won't be planting shrubs in the Cattail because that's it was like an old uh farm pond that's filled in but all of the grassy areas would be planted with with as I said 55 shrubs thanks Ward um all right I know Bruce is on the site visit so I'd like to hear from you as Bruce but I see Jason's hands up go ahead Jason thank you um yeah I just have a question about the boulders it said that they're going to be space roughly 20 to 25 feet apart and the purpose of those is to prevent mowing um you know 20 to 2 ft is easily enough space for a mower to get through are there any other potential um deterrents that we can put up split rail fence something like that to to demarcate I think if you if you prefer we can put um some of those shrubs along that row too that would be another thing so that would be a deterrent to mowing the shrubs there I think that's the plan was to make that uh to have that grow up to be more of a shrub area than a grassy area okay and is this the um is it the homeowner that's doing the mowing or are they having you know homeowner somebody they're hiring someone who homeowner may come in and not know what the plan is no it's the homeowner so I think the intention of this is eventually when these shrubs get larger the area will no longer be a meadow it'll be a shrub area area so that you know but the the idea of the boulders is so that it's clear where the edge of mowing is allowed and that nobody will you know the concern is in the future somebody might if he sells the property and it you know yeah that's my concern is that if the property gets sold or a third party comes in a lawn service that doesn't know that they're not supposed to necessarily go on the other side of those holders I mean Kevin can correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of these areas before he purchased the property were brush hogged regularly so that's why they don't have um a shrub community so if we go five or 10 years with these plantings and with the natural stuff that will come in I think that area will all grow up and it won't be um somewhere that anyone even think about mowing I would I like that idea of interspersing the uh some shrubs along that same line as Boulders are okay well Kevin I think is going to be the guy doing it so um he's understood understood and and I think the shrubs within the a to create a pretty strong Thicket that like Ward said nobody would even think of trying to remot through it all right Ain is that something that we would add to the conditions yeah so um I can um add a condition to the existing drafted order of conditions that states that um shrubs will be planted along the boundary of the mitigation area to create uh like a shrub barrier M yeah between the boulders okay thank you thanks Jason Chris do you wanna um anything very quickly I when I was out there it was pretty self-evident where the boundary was and yes it is possible that someday way off in the future someone would bring a rush hen but they would do that I think knowing that they we're going over a line that was not supposed to be gone over and I believe it's our understanding that people who get orders of conditions are supposed to make sure that their contractors know what the orders are and yeah I'm sure Kevin will know him him in himself I know what they are but someday other contractors need to be informed about what this line means and it all looks pretty straightforward to me and the other thing is that Mr O'Brien was very um we had good conversations about the plantings and and what would really be the best um mixture of things and about the dying pine trees and how to build that into the process and I felt like he was being very forthcoming about working with uh Aaron and Ward to um be creative about what could be done there so it I would urge that we approve this just add like if I could just add one follow up to Jason's comment which is this is this is in the order of conditions and so when they get a um you know this gets recorded on their deed and we will have these as ongoing conditions so when you get a final certificate of compliance it lists the ongoing conditions from the order so it's it is tied to the overall property even if the property sells that's still attached to it so they should know that that you know management is required thanks s Alex go ahead yeah just for my own clarification uh you own all the lots and um just trying to turn my camera on whoops you own all the lots and on those lots is an historic house so you own the historic house correct yes sir and you don't choose to live in it I do not um and so what you choose to do is build another house leaving the old one vacant no my intent is to uh Reduce by half the existing historic house so the historic house the original footprint will be preserved and the addition that was tacked onto it sometime some time ago remove that and turn it into a Adu like a guest Cottage on the property so it's it's a nice old farmhouse but I can't have my parents stay here it it's just too dangerous for them to go up and down the stairs okay so but you don't intend to subdivide the lot I do not okay thank you okay um I do appreciate the planting plan thank you for being thoughtful about that um so if there's any further questions can move on to the motion and issuing an order conditions I I move to close the public hearing and issue order of conditions for D number 089-099-6182 so am I oh sorry Andre I couldn't see Andre is and I unanimous all right thanks guys thank you very much thank you thank you thanks Kevin and Ward thank you okay wow so that was it amazing but we have a lot of enforcements to talk about and in in fact um I was at with Aaron on Friday for one of them and we had a surprise other one so Bruce go ahead um well what I was going to say got undercut a little bit with by what you just said but I there are times that I'm feeling pretty lonely out there on the side visits oh I'm just saying I've I've suggested my time frame which does not correspond to aon's time frame okay I I'm not BL on our children expressing my my inner loneliness when I'm there by myself well where are you Bruce it was a fun Friday well I can't do them all either so I guess okay one one thing that I can suggest relative to the site visits is um in a previous town that I worked for we had similar scheduling issues and I would conduct my site visits during the workday if members could join me for those they would however ever frequently Commissioners would meet up and it was kind of a fun thing for them to do on a Saturday morning get a cup of coffee and go around and do site visits together now they were mostly retired and had a lot of time um and they you know would do the rounds and spend half the day doing s visits on a Saturday morning I'm not suggesting you all want to do that but I'm just saying it's it is something that you could do set up regularly and um I don't necessarily have to be there it would be tough for me to come with my kiddos but um you know just putting that out there as a thought thanks aarin I mean I would be up for that I guess I I worry that my read of the land and the plans and what's going on is is far more limited when you're not there um or anybody else is not there so there that's just my hindrance go ahead Bruce now I'm gonna turn The Coin over and say it isn't gonna for the next three months it's not going to be loneliness um I've taken a halftime job and the schedule changes a lot it's it's I'm I'm going to be a fish survey technician for the the Connecticut River conservancy and I'm going to spend my time going down to South Hadley and Chickapee talking to Fisher people about what they're catching and but it I will not be able to go to as many site visits so I'm just there we are sounds like something I did about 30 years ago I'm getting bored with being retired that didn't take long Bruce it's only three months so we'll see yeah I'd like to seek that boredom yeah seek that boredom well we do appreciate the time that you have had on site because it's super valuable to us and I like doing them I'm just anyway enough set on that maybe we'll have a make feel you're gonna make me feel like I never show up no it's not true everybody shows it's just it's like it seems to go in like one person will show up for this another person shows up for that which which is fine and I think as long as we have really one commissioner who shows up who can speak to their experience of viewing the site I think that's not uncommon I mean there was when I worked in Greenfield no one showed up um like no Commissioners would show up so you know it's it's nice to have Commissioners making time to be there but also you guys donate a lot of your time so um it's really what you can do and and we can try to work around it and come up with Solutions well I have to admit when I when I am able to go to site visits which is fairly often was one of the questions I was asked when I was interviewed what I show up for site visits and it um um there's nothing like a site visit to understand the project and though some of the best ones have been when there's been two or three of us to really take a ask questions from different perspectives I'm thinking of the battery storage one which was there were I think three of us there and it was really good you know that way so anyway we are we are getting a new commissioner at the next meeting so hopefully having a full board a full compliment of board members will get will get more folks on on site okay okay well I'm done as the ranger so I'll have some time oh really okay see you out there Andre cause when I'm out there okay let's move on so we can all have an early night um enforcement orders Erin take it away yeah so um as Michelle noted for 11 Trillium we had a our onewe Benchmark site visit from the last meeting they're already out removing Phill um at the 11 trillion way site they already had erosion control blankets installed um new straw Waddles installed um we had a a good discussion um with the land owner and with the contractor and so I'm hopeful that um the next site the next time I get out to the site which will be later this week early next week that um they'll be quite a bit more stabilization measures installed between now and then um does anybody have any questions on 11 Trillium before I move on to the next one I just want to make sure I'm not I have a question have you been out there since we were there because we were there like the the day before the five inches of rain and I and they were about to do all the work I'm just wondering what if you've seen it yeah I have not been out there this week um but I can try to get out there on Friday um my schedule's been a little bananas but um but I can try to get out there Friday to take a look and see what's going on okay there's a lot of imminent work to be done and and I just have one comment on this which is this was a circumstance where um the violation was not because of work being done within our jurisdiction it was work at it was literally like at the line and outside of the line but because there was so much Earth moving and rain all of the fill and the dirt was pouring in into our jurisdiction so this was a just a case of where the it was like an infiltration made it jurisdictional and that that seemed to be difficult for the land owner to understand um that seemed to be a like a challenging point of him sort of accepting uh guidance from Aaron about what to do was that it was he said but I'm out of the buffer I'm out of the buffer I'm out of the 100 feet I am I yeah anyway so this was just different and it it was just kind of a different framework for explanation but you look like go ahead Aron to piggyback on what Michelle just said I think this is this site is a really important one for a variety of projects when we allow clear cutting in Uplands adjacent to Resource areas on slopes this this is what happens right so we have to be very cautious and and we didn't allow clear cutting in this particular case there was supposed to be a 50 foot buffer between the 100 foot buffer line and the house the landowner cleared up to the 50-ft buffer so they were claiming to be outside of our jurisdiction with the work but they clearcut it did earthw work left it completely destabilized and it was on a slope and that's what washed down so situations like those are the in my opinion the most dangerous for Wetlands when there's slopes involved and clear cutting um and earthw work yeah when I was when I was out there Aaron pointed out to him several different places on the site where the the siment was going down into the road and then into the catch Basin which then means that there's a different Pathway to harming our jurisdictional interests yeah so it was basically three sides it was on a Hilltop and so into the road into the catch Basin into somebody's driveway and then into the river like many many cubic yards of just soil and there were shovels and buckets down there where they just that's stabilized but I it looked like it just looked like they dumped dirt next to the river it was it was pretty dramatic so this is the area they started removing the fill from right and you can see it's just loose dirt like silty very movable this is the area that has not yet been and you can see the rivulet basically eroding yeah channels yeah this these photos aren't as good because I didn't go down below but yeah you can see the the reals and gullies forming that's sheet erosion yeah so anyways just for future projects and um if no one has any further comments on 11 Trillium um I'll move on to the next one so I'm not clear on what that's are you giving us a status update or is there an a NOP just a status update um to let you know that we're monitoring it and we met with them and we'll be monitoring it again before the next meeting yep um so the next one is um the there's a lot on Wildflower Drive um it's lot 21d or sorry map 21d lot 16 it's a little difficult for me to explain it's um it was a undeveloped house lot in ammer woods on Wildflower Drive um it was it's the house lot immediately adjacent to an intermittent stream the same intermittent stream I will add which is Upstream 11 Trillium it flows Downstream comes under wildf flower and then this lot is immediately um beside it so this land owner contacted me in 2023 um basically uh stating that they wanted to build a house here and I um let them know you're in a buffer zone to this intermittent stream here's all of the here's a list of Consultants uh you have to have the site delineated put together a site plan come to us with a permit application so fast forward to last week I got um an email from a town official who was out um in that neighborhood and indicated to me that there was clear cutting going on um up to the 50 Foot buffer on this house lot I reached out to the landowner um the landowner said his friend who he didn't know their name or phone number um was doing the tree cutting again I was told these are like probably 80 foot high um uh pine trees they were felling them with a chainsaw and ladders um there was no safety equipment it was extremely dangerous situation um felling them onto the neighbor's property and there was a house immediately next door um and this friend let him know that he didn't need a permit to cut his lot and he could just proceed with doing it and take care of it so he sort of put it on his friend that his friend was responsible um and also he said he had a hearing with the zoning board of appeals and he sent me a um a legal notification which was not for his lot but from a neighboring lot where I had been in touch with the land owners because they did file with the zoning board and they did get in contact with me and they were not working within jurisdiction so there was quite a bit of sort of stuff going on with that one um and I'm very challenged by it so um supposed to be meeting with the gentleman later this week um very challenging situation um but I will pull up some photos so you can see what the lot looks like I I drove by there it's pretty egregious yeah if anybody wants to attend um a meeting with me uh with the gentleman I would welcome anybody who wants to participate um but also understand if folks can't um but it it was very difficult for me to sort of get so this is the this is the clearing and basically the edge of the clearing that you're seeing in this vicinity is probably 20 to 30 feet from the Wetland and I will add and there's a photo here that kind of Does It Better Justice um it looks down a slope so yeah so the clearing is right up to the edge of this slope and again you see the steep slope situation happening down to the stream so this is what concerns me is work that's on a plateau over a steep slope going down to a resource area these are where frequently we see um issues so they were given a cease and assist I contacted the owner gave them a cease and assist the day that I found out about the violation the next day Michelle and I when we were out at 11 Trillium went to work on the site and you can see there were people working there still so after be being given a cease and assist order there was still work going on after they were told to stop so we I notified um ww Clark from shutesbury that there was a cease and assist and they needed to stop work immediately I also contacted the friend um who had given I got a contact number from Clark um for the friend who had done the tree cutting I spoke to them and said no more cutting cease and assist and I contacted the landowner and I issued an enforcement order um and told them that they need to file a notice of intent application and I believe I gave them oh I am I think I gave them through sorry I've got a lot of windows open so while you're looking Aon what exactly is the violation I'm sorry Jason's got his hand up I put it in that's all right Alex I was going to go down the same route uh what what was in I don't I don't recall seeing the enforcement order or the notice of violation I saw the cease and assist but what what are we what are our options and you know I I would just like to to to discuss in further detail what our options are and what happens you know what when you order a ceas and assist and they do not cease and assist great question um well I'm hopeful that they will in fact cease and desist at this point um since everybody has been contacted but um certainly continue to monitor the situation and if any additional work is going out there we've got photo documentation um and yeah Michelle and I had a conversation about this as well um you know if folks are blatantly not um responding to enforcement orders they're going to end up getting fines and the fines are going to be issued daily so um it's not the ideal because it's highly administratively um impactful to do that but we'll do what we have to do to make sure we get compliance um so in this particular case the site wasn't terribly like the soils on the site weren't terribly Disturbed so I felt like it would be advantageous for us to require to set a date and say you need to file a notice of intent by X date which I gave them till April 30th um I know the land owner wants to sit down and meet with me I know finances are probably going to be a a concern um and I get the feeling that the reason this was done kind of on the um uh without permitting was because of financial reasons um sorry Erin sorry I don't mean to interrupt you but I have I I am not personally uh I who who's the is is Courtney Rose the land owner correct Courtney Rose works for nii Plotkin that is a commercial real estate service leader in Western Massachusetts I would think that this person would know that you can't go and develop a lot without permits maybe you should go to the zbaa Mee that was a little like like this is this to me is particularly egregious Courtney as a construction manager knows no like I to say it this way I don't want to sound but like courton you should know better you can't you can't go and start cutting trees and start developing a a lot without Hermits yeah I am 100% 150% in agreement with you um I had a really difficult conversation with him um where there was a lot of excuses being made there was a lot of blaming other people there was a lot of um my environmental engineer said it was okay and by the way I would like to just point this out because just in case the gentleman does come um the consultant that was supposedly consulted which I haven't heard from did not see a plan with flagging nothing but the consultant is a consultant that I have worked with previously and has worked with this board previously and the it was a different um cross-section of board members because it was PRI I think prior to sort of us getting a turnover in board um members but there was a situation on Cav I Andre and Michelle you guys might remember this where this particular consultant showed up and said there was no alteration as a result of an enforcement matter on can naav we hired a or worked with the land owner I was around for can okay you were around that's right okay thanks Alex for reminding me of that we had a a um Wetland consultant go out and determined that the first Wetland consultant had either lied to us or um didn't know what they were talking about and the commission at that point made sort of a decision that that particular consultant if they came before the commission again would there would be a peer review of their work because um it was clear that either they were not competent to do the delineation or that they were not they were there was some kind of deception involved in the presentation that was given to the commission at the time so that is the same consultant that was involved on this project um so concerning to say the least um for me because it's challenge challenge when somebody like that's giving guidance to an applicant um all um just backing up a little bit can you just articulate what the the violation is like is it amounted basil area is it within the within the 100 foot just just so everybody can hear that the buffer zone on the lot was basically clearcut um to the intermittent stream so they didn't own all the way to the stream but they clearcut up to the um property boundary within the buffer on their lot so you know presumably within 50 feet um appeared to be within about 30 feet of the Stream boundary um but the entire swath of buffer on the lot was cut right 100 foot buffer the 100 foot well so the the stream is off property so it casts onto this property um so like at its furthest point it was probably like I would say you know 50 to 75 feet swath was cleared um within the buffer but the entire buffer on the lot and we do allow clearing of trees in the buffer but only a certain basil area and this was and a clearcut well for for non-commercial purposes without a forest cutting plan an individual landowner can can remove trees as long as they're not removing over 50% of the basil area and they're using the wood for their own personal cordwood use in this case there was a contractor taking the wood off site okay so I don't consider that to be for cordwood okay thanks Andre I forgot my question okay Jason um Aon I just would like to clarify you said they can cut you know and needs to be for their own use but they have to have an noi prior to doing that right they have to come before the commission prior to going out and doing all of that cutting if they're doing it the resource area well this this applicant should have had a notice of intent application for what they did but but an individual land owner let's say they're going out and they let's say let's say somebody owns like 10 or 15 Acres behind their house and periodically they go back and cut down a tree and chop it up for cordwood that's completely allowed under the regulations they don't need a permit from us to cut a single tree down um but if they're removing over 50% of a basil area in a buffer zone or in a resource area yes they would so that's where you know they they could thin a little bit cutting a tree here and there for cordwood use only that's all that's allowed without a permit thanks Andre I remember my question more of a comment and with a question Arin you mentioned that um the they clearcut all the way to the edge of their property uh through or into the bu buffer zone so I guess you know what that means is you know how much further would they have gone if their property went even further in toward the buffer zone you know would they have cut it all would they you know so it's I'm just adding to the comment yeah who can know but um I do want to just bring up a point that I've been thinking about is um because we're not done with our enforcements for the night there's another one um this is posing to the commission proactive measures to somehow prevent these things from happening and I I don't know if it's a land owner thing it seems to be sort of on the contractor end where these missteps are occurring and there's many many contractors from out of the town from far enough away that maybe the the regulations are significantly different but if anybody has an idea about Outreach or some kind of thing like that that um just so we don't end up here i' I'd love to hear that at a different time or email or something like that but it was a significant enough of a week that um I've just been thinking about that um anyway are there any more questions about Wildflower because I think we have one more to get to one more question when are you going to have that meeting Erin um potentially Friday but also maybe next week it really depends on um um my meeting schedule and it's kind of bananas right now so wherever I can squeeze it in can you send can you send something out uh in couple of days in advance absolutely thanks yep absolutely I might shoot for early next week just to see if Commissioners are able to make it I Bru there so we can be company sorry Aon are you planning on having that meeting at the town hall probably or Zoom okay all right okay so what we do KN what we do need on this on this particular one is a um a motion to ratify the enforcement order that was issued to map 21d lot 16 so I moved second Andre on the motion Alex on the second Bruce I Jason I Andre hi Alex I I'm an i okay um so there was one more incident uh that was reported to me um there's a a letter in your packets um by I'll pull up photos as well um basically the report that I received was that there was um cutting and heavy equipment um on a landlocked parcel that is um on on Bay Road but only accessible through the frontage of a a secondary property owner I contacted the property owner um who had the land locked land behind the property owner to request access to get out there and do a site visit which was granted to me the land owner was very um uh cooperative and had indicated that they number one hadn't done any work hadn't given anybody approval to do any work and weren't aware that any work was going on so I went out and did an inspection and determined that um there had been a a path cleared behind the house that's on the Frontage part of the lot a path was cleared um going back to a a Confluence of um streams in the in the back and that an area had been clearcut um on the bank of the stream and also um in a bvw um not a huge area but um on the bank of a stream and definitely caused an impact also uh Slack the Slash from the trees that had been cut were were sort of dumped um on the side of the opposite stream and um there was like sort of Muddy ruts that were left um where this vehicle had accessed into the back um and a path like a a trail had essentially been cleared from this land owner's property into the back so you can see here it's very difficult to tell because of the sun angle but basically a path had been cleared and vehicle tracks were coming back from the house that's on the Frontage coming back into the landlock section this is some of the cut material that was um just dumped on the side um of the stream Bank um this is again it's hard to tell because of the Shadows but there's ruding here um right through a wetland area there's some better sort of better shots of it it's it's hard to see but they're they are there um and then these trees that had like naturally Fallen um on the land had been cut to make way for this Trail coming back um through this land owner's land who had no idea this was going on those are that those photos are a little better you can see the running a little better there who's with you who's standing with who's with you um a person who shall not be identified okay so is this just is this theft come again are they stealing no uh no it's um it's they so I'll I'll keep flipping through and you can kind of see what's going on so this this area here um can you guys see my cursor yeah it's an area of the stream there's sort of a meander here and this area was clearcut um the there was several beach trees here and shrubs and so they cut it and it looked like they scarified it a little bit with a piece of equipment in preparation for something not sure what but but um as I flip through you can see the cut stumps um there was skunk cabbage popping up underneath this so it was definitely a wetland and then there was this little um sitting area that had been created back there so I don't know what the landowner you know the the trespasser was had in mind but like little Recreation Area back there to sit by the river put down a blanket I don't I don't know exactly what they had in mind back here but they were doing it on somebody else's property without their permission um so they were sent a letter basically told to cease and assist this identifies the um so this is the frontage lot and then the land locked parcel in the back and it sort of identifies there was a path cut and then this area cleared um so I sent a letter telling them to cease and assist the land owner um who who owns the property was damaged is also going to be in contact with them so that's kind of where things stand right now thanks Aaron Alex go ahead yeah aarin do you happen to know what the laws are with regard to landlock property and access um in some areas some states you you can't have a uh well for some purposes you cannot have a land log lot um the selectman for example can provide an easement for temporary reasons logging but do you know what the what the roles are yeah so in this case the parcel in question was actually like historically owned um and and connects to acreage in the uh to the north that is also owned by the same landowner so this landowner has alternative the landowner has alternative access to get to the parcel the challenge is and actually maybe I can pull back up that last slide I don't know if it shows up I communicated with the landowner um it's actually the property is owned by a family um which are um four uh Children of the former owner who are all out of town um and they they I spoke to them about you know how what their wishes are it's their land it was trespassed on and damaged they expressed to me that they did not want the people who did this to be on their property they don't want them coming back they don't want them coming in there to try to do something they're afraid they're going to make things worse and you know give more license for them to kind of take ownership of the land um so they basically just asked that we tell them to cease and assist and sort of let the land naturally rebound that was the request of the landowner who had the the ACT I will say like in terms of violations it's um I mean it's not a great situation to clearcut a wetland like that um on a stream bank and leave it um but I do think that you know later this spring summer we're going to start to see shoots popping up and it'll probably bounce back relatively quickly um I'm just telling you what I know but if you feel strongly in another direction we can um take other action but it was not an enforcement order issued to the landowner it was just a cease and assist issued to the neighbor that we believe had committed the violation but don't know so alleged right alleged Jason that was my question was this is something of a mystery of who yeah who gets who gets the order of enforcement who gets the cease and toist order because we don't really know right who did the the violation right well there there is some witness testimony which would suggest uh that it was in fact the folks on the Frontage but um just leave it at that so there are people that are that have visibility to this and can see what's happening and so if there's continued activity then presumably some further like trespass action enforcement might take place okay I mean I'm just worried that we don't see what's going on back there and who knows what'll happen next but um I'm glad people have their eyes out me too okay um so you're just giving us a an FYI on that one essentially yes and I'll keep you posted the um the land owner was going to also contact the owners and have a conversation with them so I'll it'll be an ongoing dialogue and I'll keep you posted thanks okay um unless there's any more questions it looks like we have a request for minor administrative change for em Emerson Court yeah and this one is not I don't even think honestly you guys need to approve this it's more of just an FYI um and I'm trying to remember I think it was Jason who was out on Emerson court with me um so there was a couple head walls for the discharge points on the storm water systems um one of them was a a head wall had collapsed um into the stream and they had priced out basically repairing replacing the head wall um and it was extreme expensive to replace so they asked to replace it with a um oh sorry um um with a a flared end so um a pipe that has sort of a um level spreader on the on the bottom of it which I have no problem with that substitution um Bucky sent me the specs for it um and I think it will be just fine but I wanted to just make you aware that there was that minor change to the permit so that it wasn't like I was just approving it on the side um in case anybody has any issues with it I'm good with that anyone else okay okay do we need to discuss monitoring reports or should I go to public comment and that's a cue for the public comment room to raise your hands please if you have anything to say today okay I'll give it Vibe so I guess we're getting more rain on Thursday did hear that is it a significant is it at least it's a little more thaw than the flooding condition that I had on Saturday not good no did anybody else have basement flooding or my not my basement just like I felt a lot it was like a river was coming by my house and we were bailing with buckets to keep it out of the house it was crazy unprecedented um like frozen ground 4 inches of rain called amoris fire department and uh we're gonna be doing some draining work tomorrow I guess am okay I don't see any sorry so um speaking about flooding the Fort River has been flooding down by Hickory Ridge and um like kinsky wrote a letter to uh a whole lot of people including Dave and I think Aaron got a copy I'd have to check but he specifically asked if he would if Dave would uh send the letter out to the commission I haven't seen it I've seen the letter but I didn't have haven't seen it coming from Dave and there are two other letters that Mike Linsky has sent out since I think October and none of those have been sent to the commission and I'm wondering why um so I'm copied on those those were those were actually addressed to Dave am I incorrect on that uh there's three of them one went to Lynn grimer president of the council and one just went um I don't know the I don't have the date in front of me but I know when I read it I uh it's all about flooding at Hickory Ridge and uh on the bottom he asked that it be sent out to the commission and I even maybe Dave hasn't had time to do that but Dave hasn't sent out any of the previous letters either and I'm wondering why so I did include the Lynn gmer email in a packet of that was a while ago yeah um but but I confess that I did not forward the email the latest email from Mike Linsky and there were previous there have been many emails from Mike um about the flooding sort of updating us on the you know flooding because he monitors out there quite a bit um and I apologize if I've been um negligent in forwarding those along they were I believe most of them were addressed to Dave and then Dave responded responded accordingly so I didn't necessarily know if it was appropriate for me to forward them on or not but um since you've specifically requested I will absolutely um forward that along to you guys um so that you can see it and um if anyone's interested in the previous correspondence I can track those down and put them in the packet too so you can see sort of the historic um interesting response too but it uh one of the things that Dave pointed out I mean Mike pointed out is progress we haven't been making much progress on alternative access for fire trucks and um um you know he pointed that out I think in October don't Mark me on I might be off by a month but long time ago yeah and we've had we've had discussions about Hickory Ridge but uh we don't get very many updates about increasing access yeah so I can give you um an ACC an update based on what I know on access um myself Dave and um Jeff Olstead and Chris baskam and there was another gentleman from the fire department and I'm blanking on his name but we met with the um managers uh the property managers for mil Valley Apartments um I believe it was last week and we had a discussion with them and we walked the site um so there there is stuff going on behind the scenes um and we're working with them to try to come up with an emergency access but it's you know there's a lot of parties involved in the discussion and um it requires access through private land owner um access point so we're trying to be respectful of making sure that they're communicated with before we sort of announce it publicly um and also that they are okay with what's being proposed so but once we get to that point we'll we'll definitely be giving you more updates on where things stand and what the plan is moving forward yeah I'd appreciate it if Dave has news about Hickory Ridge if he would include it in his director's report in the beginning of the meeting okay I think excuse me I think Mike commented in that letter that um Pierce sky is planning to use the same batteries so um um I think I think Mike is in communication with those folks pretty I don't know how he gets his information but I think he communicates directly with them and I I think they communicate with him but so access is going to be it's pretty important if they're going to come back to us sometime soon with the fire department's okay um because access will be a stumbling block abolutely okay it sounds like a complicated kind of RightWay easement situation which is time okay thanks Alex for bringing that up um all right I don't see any public hands so I think we're good to go any would would like to adjourn us before we go I have an action item to fix the error in my write up about the 20% um threshold I will do that that promptly probably not tonight but I'll do it tomorrow morning and should I send that out to the entire board send it to Arin for her to distribute what do you want um my suggestion is that you send it to aarin and then she can distribute it and maybe eron you could just give it a very cursory look just to make sure there's nothing um I don't know you could catch something like that perhaps um but then send it out to us not necessarily with packets but just you know as it comes so we have plenty of time to look at it okay thank you all right thanks Alex I'd appreciate if you'd send it out directly instead of burying it in a packet okay thank you okay I've got homework and uh I move that we adjourn second Alex on the motion Andre on the second Bruce hi Jason Hi Andre hi Alex I and then we're closing at 8:38 and I'm an i yeah all right good night everybody night everybody by