##VIDEO ID:o9-PbHBrO0Y## hello and welcome to the emmer Conservation Commission meeting um on October 23rd 2024 the time is 7:04 we have all members present except Laura and we have staff President Aaron jock and Dave zic okay um first up is chairs report I don't have anything tonight so I'll hand it over to Dave sure I I usually like to give you a couple of quick updates and I've got three for you one is um some weeks back I think we reported and you probably saw in the newspaper that the town was successful in getting that puffers Pond uh Grant $250,000 we're really excited about that uh Aon did some some great work on that with um with uh some of the team that we brought in um to put that Grant together we're going to match that with some Capital funds that I have for puffer Pond and we're going to be working with uh one of our other team members Bob parent on kicking that off the three of us met earlier in the week and uh so the the the background on that is is the grantis for Designing and um uh permitting uh improvements to the dam and Dyke at puffer Pond this is kind of a an important first phase in our in our relook in our focus on on what's Happening up at puffers with regard to dredging and um sedimentation in the pond um and and improving the beaches and the access and such so um going to be exciting process again this is for design and priting it is not for the actual construction um we will be working uh to get additional grant funding and and hopefully Capital funding to U Move that along but very much needed work on on the dam and Dyke again there's no there's no immediate threat to those to those U structures but um they do need some TLC um Switching gears going all the way south to Hickory Ridge I don't want to steal Aaron's Thunder but um again Aaron has done some great work cultivating uh collaborations there and I think Aon and I met earlier today and I believe uhu we are at seven culs removed total on that property Aaron and just this week again thanks to um uh Partnerships that Aaron has has cultivated with us fish and wildlife service They removed uh two coverts last week or maybe three last week and one this week so um uh our partners at us fish have done an amazing job and these are tributaries to the Fort River and you know we don't have a total value on this partnership but it certainly exceeds $100,000 in construction materials labor all of that uh equipment rental etc etc so we're really grateful for the US fish and wildlife service for their partnership on that on that project and then lastly um uh we did team up and get in some CPA proposals for um conservation support um there are and I believe Jason is going Jason and I have not connected on this I know you sent me an email and I apologize I haven't gotten back to you on that but um the CPA committee will be meeting later this fall to consider 11 proposals these are from town departments as well as from uh organizations out in the community we were able to get in two proposals one is for uh the purchase and installation of signs and kiosks at conservation areas and that was for $100,000 and then um another proposal for trails and uh Trail improvements and and foot Bridge Replacements and upgrades uh and that was for $150,000 so we're doing the very best we can to seek um significant support for the conservation land and um as we know these things you know when you're replacing Bridges uh whether they be bog Bridges or or bridges over tributaries the cost is very real um the days of of doing telephone polls and and um you know some donated labor or excuse me donated materials is probably over so um along with the signs and kiosks we're also I've mentioned we are working with we've hired a uh designer Seth Gregory out of Northampton he has extensive experience with um designing signs for a lot of different organizations including I believe the trustees of reservations the castal trust etc etc so we're um as soon as we have some Design Concepts uh we will bring those to you but we're doing conservation areas Recreation areas and cemeteries um and so uh we're looking for kind of a consistent brand so that people would know you know when you drive by area a or area B Conservation Area b or Recreation Area C you know that the town owns it the town manages it and once you got to that area be it a parking lot or a trail head you know what are the rules and regulations and um a map and um also who to call if you see issues or or have questions so we're thinking about QR codes and and how to best do that so we're very early in the process but um as soon as we have some some Concepts we will bring those to you um but it's pretty exciting I know that I've spoken to a couple of members of the commission about how inconsistent we are with our presentation at various uh Trail heads and parking areas so we're well aware of the issue we've got empty kios we've got old kiosk this would help to standardize them across the town so kind of exciting stuff so happy great thanks Dave to take any questions if you haven't looks like Alex has a question goe Alex I just wanted to provide an update to Dave on um closures of area U ponds I was visiting with somebody about Lake wola and the with the on the north end where the beach is it's Sandy and it's frequented by geese E coli um count around that area was very high and caused it to close but in other parts of of the pond um the E Cola count was down so it appeared that the KAG colai count wasn't uniform across the water and was concentrated where the geese was and I noticed in the video of you that's on the amoris TV Ducks were keeping mards swimming around while you're being videoed and I wonder if there aren't a lot of waterfoul on puffers yeah it's a great comment great question Alex um and and certainly something we're going to be looking into more closely and in fact Aaron had spoken to me about this some some weeks back uh that she was well aware from her colleagues or friends up in shutesbury that like wyola the folks there did some interesting testing both at the beach at the uh State Beach but also at the various private beaches around the pond or lake and um found the same thing so I think it's kind of the same information getting to us and yeah we're planning to do some more extensive testing around the perimeter of puffers this summer and as I said we are hopeful that our partnership with UMass with additional testing is going to to happen in the summer of 25 as well um working with Brian Yellen on that and and my hope is uh that UMass will um step up with some funding for that so uh we're we're hopeful on and all of that we're also going to chase some of that testing up the kushman brook so and yeah Ducks we haven't to your question about ducks we haven't had a significant number of geese or ducks on the pond for a couple of years but you know Wildlife is wildlife and they do do what they want to do so they fly in they fly out sounds like you have an imminent comment Darin I was just gonna say I drove by puffers the other night cuz I drive by a lot just to check it out and I saw I saw a flock of about 30 ducks on that sand bar that's right at the mouth of the kushman and I was like ah I I almost like called you to be like you got to come see this or like stop to take a picture but anyway well you almost called me or Alex you um another reason to dredge I guess right because that sandbar is a just yeah an attractive growing gr growing um it is migration season so there's not normally 30 ducks there in the summer when the coli is high so I just want to point out the timeline period and not blame the Ducks entirely but yes um it is goose and duck congregation season okay I don't see any more hands so I'll just move on to our Land Management updates and hand this over to Alex go ahead Alex please we have I think a vote coming up on the agricultural policy tonight if I'm not mistaken and um let Aon handle that I think if there are any questions on the agricultural policy I'd like to have Bruce address them because he was the primary author and hats off to Bruce for that he did a wonderful job uh we' have um a couple of items in the folder for the subcommittee uh for your review and comment one is the mission statement and with that is uh appendix A and B uh B is a set of definitions some of which uh Define the some of the words in the mission statement so please look at them together um we also have um a forest management document in there which um you got a kind of a raw docu dented as Bruce's comments and I told Aaron today that I plan to uh um update that as soon as possible um so we'd appreciate it if you would look at the forest management document in between now and the next commission meeting and we have another document in there uh which I got to refresh my memory on just what that is um the mission statement I think Alex I think I said mission management I think we have three three don't we forestry management agricultural policy acronyms and definitions and uh the mission statement those are four yeah okay so we're starting to roll things to you and uh uh so that we can make our deadline at the end of December and hopefully have everything voted on uh individually um you'll eventually see the entire document but they're really not linked so I don't think there's a conflict with voting on things as they come up and it will hopefully um allow us to conclude the subcommittee at the end of December when we'll go into another phase of that so um there there's we'll continue to roll things out and we have uh a couple of policies going to come at you um next time and U the pace will probably pick up so if I'm correct and I think I am that we're going to have a vote on the agricultural policy it would please me if if uh Aaron would or or Michelle would lead that rather than me I think I have a bias thanks Alex sounds good okay so first up are there any commissioner questions on the agricultural policy comments is that hand Rachel go ahead um no very nice editing um I just had one question about the policy was at the end I know we had the definition of temp temporary and permanent structure and it's also listed in the definition section so I don't know if we need them in both places or if we want to refer to the definition section rather than re reiterating that in the agricultural section I think that was the intent is to have the definitions all at the end of the whole document okay that's a great comment I would prefer to just to reference the the definition sections that could be updated and re-referenced and prior and subsequent iterations of it go ahead Alex that's the intent it'll be a rolling working document and subject to changes different policies come forward so the definitions that are there now will only change as a result of comments received what will happen is new definitions will be added for other words thanks does does Rachel's comment necessitate an edit to the document to the agricultural policy text I wasn't quite sure exactly what her comment was it sounded like we have defined something in the policy and again in the um in the um uh appendix and we'll need to straighten that out thank you Rachel sure yeah so let's strike the Redundant or let's strike the agricultural policy definition and just refer to the appendix is that yes please great Erin I was just going to say I think that how we've been I think Alex's thought was include the definitions in each section that way when you're reviewing it if you want to see the definition while we're doing the review you have access to it but the idea is that those definitions will be coated in the definition section it's just as they're applicable to a given section we're trying to include them so that it's helpful when you're doing the review got it Jason can you clarify what it is that we're just voting on The a the land use policy right the am we're voting on the agricultural policy of the land use policy yeah draft 18 final two yeah okay so any comments that we have for pendex A and B you want us to just write them down and send them in right yes please make any comment right now yeah but if we'd like to vote on approval of the Agricultural policy tonight in which case I have a just a point of clarification and Dave if you have an opinion um I don't know if we have a conflict on the subcommittee if if the subcommittee doesn't vote I don't know if we have a quorum but does the subcommittee have a conflict of interest in voting I think this is all our purview okay just thought I'd ask yeah okay um all right so I guess if there's I mean if there's any public comment please raise your hand on this otherwise I'm looking for a motion to approve the agricultural policy section of the conservation land use policy document there we go motions up I move to approve the agricultural section of the conservation lands policy I second Rachel on the motion Jason on the second Bruce hi Jason hi Andre hi uh Alex hi Rachel did I get you I and I'm an i yes yes I you folks have no idea how much time and effort Bruce put in this committee put in thank you Bruce well I appreciate that but it's like this is the first one that's gotten approved too we've got other it's like yes now we've got something to work with here all right thank you all and just to reiterate Bruce's effort this went out for review by local farmers and community members so it was a very well researched section and I think we can be proud of it Aron go ahead and I just wanted to because we have a large contingent of the public in attendance just remind people that this is sort of an administrative process that the commission's going through approving section by section but when this document is fully drafted at the end there is going to be a public hearing for public review and we'll make the documents available on um the website so that you can review the documents in advance of the public hearing um so that we can take public comment on them and also if you're interested in joining we meet um twice a month the 1 and thir Tuesday at noon typically for the Land Management subcommittee if you want to attend or participate to see what the editing of these documents looks like and that also applies to the other Commissioners y if there's a specific um section you're interested in reach out and we'll let you know when it's under discussion okay great um so the mission statement is also on my agenda go ahead Alex I just want to warn anybody who Tunes in on Tuesdays if you've ever made sausage uh it's a messy process until you find the casing so that's what it's kind of like making sausage there you go and in the end it's fantastic I guess okay um is there another component of this that we need to vote to move or discuss before I move on to other business I think that's the only one that's up great in the future we can look forward to having multiple V votes yeah but this was the first and it's also the biggest policy right terms of length great okay um I'm going to move on to other business and um okay so we have seven minutes I have something um quick that I'd like to push to the front if we can go ahead um so in the in your packets this is not on the agenda it was an item that came up after the agenda was posted but um it's a fairly urgent item um and I think I saw Tom Rey on the call in case we need him um so I'm just going to give you a quick overview and then I'll pull Tom in so um it's 162 Southeast Street this is a house relocation project you may have heard of it um it's relocation of a historic house from uh 160 to Southeast Street to the project we approved which was through an RDA on the corner of parness road and belg toown road a couple weeks ago um in the course of all of the planning to move this house um it it was brought to the um project manager essentially attention that um they because of a utility pole that's on the corner um of the property line they have to um put some Timber mats on um the edge of the driveway inorder order to accommodate the moving of the house um there is an isolated a small pocket of isolated wetland in that corner that the timber mats would be set on um and this would be extremely temporary like um matter of you know a a couple hours to a day to have the timber mats put in place and then have the um Timber mats taken back up once the house is moved and then you know Reed down the area where the the mats were so um because this is like imminent like it's happening in a matter of days um the request was sent to the commission there's um information in the folder a a formal correspondence from Tom and there's photos showing what the Wetland looks like it's a corner of uh the the northwest corner of um Colonial Village Apartments where it abots the driveway and it's a very small um wet area of the lawn essentially that um they're looking to put the mats in so I'll pull Tom in um if he's if I can find him and uh if anybody has any questions eron this folder has been empty on my access for days and still is so if you do have material maybe you could pull it up because I if any I saw Andre shaking his head so I think yeah so I don't think anybody's had the opportunity to see any pictures or see any correspondence on this got it okay sometimes when I add stuff to the folders it's not visible so I apologize I'm going to try to re-upload it right now um okay and put it on your screen y yes I'll do that bear with me one second while you you guys can talk to Tom and hopefully he can provide some more insight on the situation while I do this sure Tom is there any you want to add about it yeah so I guess first it would be with our apologies I think you know so this is Barry's project I think you know Barry by now if he knew about this we would have been here before it was one of the things that the the building movers just told him last week um he had said here's what we've got to do I just some historical knowledge know through working with Alan con that there's that isolated Wetland then I can share my screen if eron can't uh get hers to display um from when Allan had stockpiled some soil it was delineated it really was caused by the the creation of Southeast Street kind of damning the water when you see the photos it's I mean you are you're all professionals it looks like a kind of a moan grass area um but I said Barry it's that's a wetland let me talk to Erin this move is scheduled for next Tuesday and we've got you know sign offs from all the utilities eversource Verizon town of ammer Etc we got the police because um we will be going out and maybe I'll share my screen just so you get a sense of uh if you wantan to yeah let Tom it's not working on my screen to share it they're showing up as like icons when I try to share the photos um so if you could share the photos that'd be great sure and and first if you can see my screen just for some context this is 162 Southeast Street you know to zoom out Colonial Village route nine right here uh Southeast Street continues to go right here um northamp The Cooperative Bank so it's this structure the Bary is it's if you go out there it's probably jacked up right now because the building movers are out there um it is going to if you follow my my mouse these trees don't exist here you'll see that in the picture uh the house will come out this garage is being taken down the foundation's being removed and it's being um revegetated it's being filled in and that's a minor activity we talked to Erin about that but the house is going to come out and when it it's as you'll see in the photo there is a pole I think it's right here and so the house has to come out this way to swing around to head this way we had talked originally with Alan snow about going south but he didn't want us to go down Stanley Street because of all the vegetation that would have to be cleared in order to move the house and he didn't want to lose any of those trees along Stanley and you know to belabored a little bit Stanley is if you travel down here you would come down here and then loop around to route nine um so instead of doing that the decision was made pick a number of months ago to go north move these traffic lights and then travel all the way down Bel toown Road to that Harkness Road property so again when the building movers came out they said well wait a second we can't just make this turn and I'll share those photos so you can see exactly what we're talking about here uh let me see what I've got this this is in the form of an email which you'll be able to see um so if you can see my screen right here it's this area that is again just from knowledge I know it's a it's a a wetlands and so that's where the conversation with Barry came up you know right in this area is where there is some water that stands occasionally again I've got some other images you know the the mats would be about you know here's the utility pole that they would have to just swing out to get around and so we envision the swamp mats being kind of in this area I think Barry talks about them going in One Direction and then the other direction Wagner is going to lay them then once those and I think it's 24 hours maximum the move starts at 8 o'clock next Tuesday and you know this area will be done kind of shortly thereafter I would expect that on Wednesday these maths will be up if you want us to have eron out to take a look and to give us some advice of what if anything needs to be done um you know we're happy to do that this gives another perspective of what you're looking at so you know first it's with our apologies that we're here asking you at this late date not our style certainly not Barry Style asking for some leniency to maybe allow us to to do this because we've got all these folks lined up to do it uh and if it happens in the future we'll push the building mover you know much harder to make sure that they know exactly the path they're going so I'm happy to answer questions we can uh stay on the photos whatever you want to do but that's what we're asking for thanks Tom I'll go to commissioner comments Alex you had your hand up yeah could you clarify what um what the action is that we are being asked to take Aon yeah so they're they're just putting down timber mats no I know but what what what are you asking us to do well it's it's mostly to make sure that to check with you to see if you have a problem with what they're proposing to do um to put the timber mats down for a day or two to get over this area and then remove them and seat it down and that can be taken so there's nothing formal in front of us yeah I got it it's just a a motion yeah Jason thank you um I have a question for Tom before I okay yeah go ahead well I assume Tom that all the roads will be closed yeah I don't I don't know that they're closed I think what happens is and and Barry's probably in the audience could give a little bit more color if I can't but you know you see there's actually Verizon trucks out there right now they've been prepping what they do is they add enough line to all the utility polls so that as the uh truck with the house approaches they can drop the lines plank them and then the structure goes over them I think they'll have a police escort route n belter toown roads wide enough where I don't think traffic should be inhibited um so I don't I don't expect it to be closed at that point thank you Jason thank you um Tom can you just give us on this photo show exact are they staying to the right of these rocks they're they're just going to cut that little corner there yeah they're going to remove these rocks um and it's probably you know in this I'll show in this photo you'll see there's those three um yeah this is a better one you see where those three cones are I think these stones come out and it's probably to that third cone that they end up stacking the mats just to give them a wide birth to get around specifically this Pole right here all right so where is the Wetland in this area then Aaron I think it's it's a great question it's it's really hard to see actually Jason um in these photos because it looks like it's it's like recently been mowed or maybe it this was taken in the fall when like things are starting to die off but in that very Corner um kind of just below where the pole is there's a there's a wet pocket there and frequently if you see them mowing in the summer that area will be vegetated because they can't even get a mower into it because it's soft there so it's a very very small isolated pocket basically of hydric soils and there's some um hydroptic vegetation that establishes in that corner when the mowing doesn't happen so it's um yeah and there's a wetland across the street so that's probably where this hydrology is kind of sourced so there's a lot of high groundwater across the street and so it it uh through groundwater sort of comes to the surface a little bit there and just for the for the commission like I don't I mean this is such a temporary situation with the mats being there for two days that you know it's even even to go through the process of Permitting something like this is really I think borderline Overkill um it's I feel like it's it's a pretty minor um and I would certainly be happy to go out and take a look at it when the mats come out to make sure that it's seated and and that there's mulch put down and that there's no impact here um all right so let's just for the sake of this picture like the bumper of the back of that white vehicle would be like the limit of it extense I would yeah I would so I mean they're going to need enough obviously there's a grade change here as well so they're just going to have to lay those mats sufficient to allow the vehicle with the house to get up and then make that turn but I think you're probably yeah you're probably looking at something like that okay so on the picture above I mean can they or I guess maybe yeah this picture yeah is it better would it potentially be better for them to go to the left side of that tree it looks like that grade has a lot less incline on the left side of that tree than it does where and then they would be out of the Wetland and it would be not in front of us right yeah and I think you know fortunately maybe unfortunately we're deferring it's pain building movers Barry's moved I want to say like three maybe of the last four or two of the last three houses with them and this is the path that they obviously you know depending upon what the board says uh and Barry can correct me but this is the PA that that they thought was the most viable with those swamp mats and like I said if Barry has another comment to make by all means you can bring them in to to make it but your Point's well taken Jason yeah they're gonna have to pile multiple mats on top of one another to be able to facilitate that changing grade yeah so if they go out to the left it looks like it's a less extreme grade change and then would avoid the Wetland and I guess the maybe my comment would be the house is probably pretty heavy um and I just don't know what sort of prep they would have to do to this area you know for here they're going to be on this for most of it and then if they've just gota kind of do make this maneuver here and it's you know they're still staying on to get across I think it's probably you know all things equal less environmentally intensive to just put these mats down get across them and rev those versus I don't think anybody wants a house stuck because the vehicle sunk into whatever the you know yeah I think that there's a it's fortunate for them that it's been very very dry and it appears that it's going to be dry so I don't think all that stuff will be too too wet but you know that was that's my next comment is they're going to seed and mulch is there a plan to set up irrigation to try to get that seed to pop and germinate quickly we're coming to the end of the seating if they're moving it on Thursday right that's the 31st Tu yeah so Tuesday the 29th so then Wednesday the 30th I mean not that the days will matter for what it's worth I think it's going to be a pretty nice Tuesday Wednesday Thursday next week with higher during the day lower at night um yeah I mean and it's one of those things where we can revisit it you know let's say in I I don't think there's much like you know again I'm a lawyer so what do I know but like erosion or other issues that could happen in this area for like scouring Etc and so we can always put it down watch it make sure it it catches if not you know revisit it in the spring but I think straw and you know maybe some you know mix of perennial and annual maybe again a little outside of my probably well outside of my comfort zone but um you know something like that in that area yeah CU I see the tire rut on the side of the driveway there and that leads me to believe that that whole area is wet the there's a big Bas in there for Colonial Village just to the South or the east of this right so that area holds water you know the Basin takes water whether or not it holds it right if it infiltrates into the ground then I would expect that to contribute to some of this potentially so I just don't want to see a bunch of math get piled up you're going to have to put several to get up that grade break take like you said a very heavy house across it and then end up with a bunch of Tire ruts or uniform ruts you know the size of the the timber matting and then it's going to get left over the potentially over the winter then in the springtime we're going to have a bunch of Peaks and valleys in this Wetland yeah we can definitely I mean if everyone wants to come out I'll call on Barry's reputation a little bit if she says this is what you need to do he's going to do it I mean I think it's it's one of those and one of the other things that that Barry had said about going this further route is these wires have not been prepped uh towards this end so again it's that whole coordination piece okay those are my comments and my concerns thank you thanks Andre um I mean Jason go ahead Andre yeah just wanted to say that uh I see that there uh that with the right matting for 24 hours uh plac there um while you move the house is going to be uh minimal impact and you are going to make sure that uh you're going to double check back uh um with Aaron after the season to make sure that the uh any replanting or revegetation is uh catching properly I don't have a problem approving this uh if there is an approval to make thank you thanks Andre um I still see hands up I guess I'm trying to move this more quickly um I personally don't have a problem with this and I guess as you said Tom like we would just appreciate some due diligence in the future and if we do Grant this tonight that you know we're acknowledging it's an acceptance and that we may not be as lenient in the future uh Sil seeing hands up I'm gonna go to aarin go ahead Erin I was just goingon to say if um Tom if if um seed and mulch isn't doing it if you would commit to like a biodegradable um uh erosion control blanket or um something like that if additional measures are needed you're willing to work with us to come up with something that's adequate there absolutely okay okay Alex yeah I just want to say a couple things one I appreciate uh the jam that they're in and um I don't think this Rises to the level of having had to put it on the agenda for the public to know that we're talking about it so given that um the other comment I has is the functions and values of the Wetland affected are pretty minimal so I think the impacts are going to be minimal and uh given that we have a hearing coming up pretty soon um I would move that we try and wrap this up pretty quickly sure and maybe add to whoever is making this motion that the area will be um seated and mulched and regrown the commission satisfaction which just is the condition of it okay with that looking for a motion Alex did you have a no I'm trying to put my hand down okay okay well perhaps you could go ahead with motion I move that we approve the matting placement in the subject Wetland for a day more if entirely necessary and that whatever cleanup is necessary be worked out informally with to her satisfaction if somebody can second all right Alex on the motion Andre on the second Rachel Rachel's and I Bruce also I guys I think you do have to have your mic on it might be thank you Jason hi Alex hi Andre I thumbs up and that's a verbal I okay got it and I'm an i okay good luck out there Tom thank you very much we really appreciate it have good night I hope I have reason to drive by so I can see this I think Tom is staying in the room for the upcoming hearing so just leave him in for the all right so are we on our 7:30 notice of intent yes all right this is uh this hearing is being held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of of the general laws of the Commonwealth and act relative to the protection of the wetlands as most recently amended in article 3.31 Wetlands protection under the town of Amis General bylaws this is a notice of intent regard Gard Consulting LLC on behalf of udrive amid LLC for the demolition of two existing structures and Associated infrastructure and construction of a proposed mix use development consisting of two buildings with associate parking landscaping and storm water improvements at 25 to 35 University Drive and 4220 422 AMD street map 13B Lots 18 27 28 and 54 I see everybody has been pulled in can Erin can you um promote Neeve too I think she's on somewhere yes if there's anybody else raise your hand Barry and Phil Henry if you want to bring them in I don't know I know we're gonna continue this so I know there's not a ton but in case there's questions it may be useful all right hi everyone um I am going to share my screen really quick if that's all right hold on yeah we're gonna go to Erin first for five minutes from staff thanks thank you um so I issued a memo um pretty late the uh or well I guess it was late in the day today really for me for my typical comments um uh I'm not going to go over the content in my memo because I think everybody can take a a quick look at it but um just generally there was some D comments on this one um there you know may be a couple additional adjustments needed um to accommodate those D comments um there's just a couple um sort of housekeeping things with the um omm plan um so yeah just take a look at my comments but I'll I'll yield the rest of my time to um the application and questions because I think my comments are pretty straightforward sure Aon just for Commissioners and the public can you summarize your comments in like one minute or the history of the comments the de comments just to give us some comment context yeah sure so um the content of the D comments was so the site is a is a Redevelopment site so preface with that um we have existing structures on the site existing um pavement on the site and existing storm water systems on the site there was systems on the site that were existing prior to the construction of the existing development and there were storm water systems on the site that were constructed as part of the existing system um The Proposal um is going to be somewhat retrofitting some of the existing storm water on the site and that's a little bit complicated because the storm water system is so old on the site that it has um adapted some wetland characteristics and also it there's a high groundwater table on the site so um uh and so some of the comments were pertaining to test pits as far as making sure we know where the groundwater table is existing on the site um and also for TSS um those were some of the the ones that stood out for me um that are are TSS uh calculations are adding up um and I think that there are uh strategies that and we talked about this in the field um and offline um some strategies that they could come up with to um adapt the plan to to comply um and to kind of get the information that the DP comments um mentioned um so that's just a quick overview thanks Saron all right I will hand it back over to you guys I am do you wanna share your screen now why don't I give a little bit of high Lev just project and then we can talk WS um for the record Tom re attorne with bacon Wilson out of amor here on behalf of you drive Amity so I think most folks are familiar I'll share my screen a couple of times first is just to orient everyone with the site so that we know what we're talking about it's at the corner of University Drive which runs in the north south Direction Amity street west to east turns into Rocky Hill Road not so far from the property line right here this is 422 am this is 2535 University Drive and then these two Parcels which are are you know as you'll see from the's uh delineation Wetlands uh they're not being touched um what they're doing is really functioning is providing the way that zoning works is for additional lot area per family you need to have a certain area that acts as the denominator these are being included in the entirety of this project but they're not being touched um I'll then just now just show the plan from a high level so that folks are able to it um a little bit about process we've been through the zoning board of appeals we received the variance to allow some additional density in this area uh we're in the planning board process right now the use is allowed by W uh the planning board wanted to get a sense of what the concom was going to say this is for the noi both a delineation and uh for the Redevelopment so we're asking for both of those things um you'll see like in in the plan where the wet delineation is and I think in the field you'd see and and even Erin shlep through the the Wilderness it seems like a pretty um um Stark delineation from you know where it exists to where the development is going to exist this is probably a good um photo to look at here if you can see it because it shows this roundabout which we participated in let writing a letter of support for a mass Works grant for the town for the hopeful roundabout in in this area you've got two buildings a Northerly building and then a southernly building um you've got parking internal to these structures and then also internal to the site uh this is designed in accordance with what the planning board working through their overlay District uh is asking for uh somewhat high level because you know we're going to respond we'll talk to Ain offline to to come up with some of those solutions that she talked about with TSS and we can figure out what we're going to do for any infiltration or recharge uh for the site but somewhat high level it's a 5.3 Acre Site 231,000 square feet uh we're increasing the impervious area by 9,000 square feet so from what's existing that's I would say all that's increasing in this Redevelopment and we're increasing buffer zone disturbance by again 9,000 square feet um we're looking to use and I'll scroll down just so you can see there's an existing Basin in this area that that Aaron had mentioned if you go there it's a little grown in but we're looking to reuse that um I will go through to the grading and drainage plan we're looking to reuse that Basin with some modified grading and then to expand that Basin um along this back area here you've got a pre-treatment in the form of a hydrodynamic separ arator and while we are increasing the total impervious area uh what we're doing is reducing by I think 17,000 square feet the non rooftop impervious area so we've got some cleaner so water quality we think is is benefited because we're we're increasing the amount of um really rooftop so that clean runoff um and we are we've got catch basins uh and then that hydrodynamic separator and then we've got some a natural I think as as Rachel has said on the site visit a natural level spreader on the Westerly side of this project if we were to zoom out from the whole project and you kept going west that's Wetlands this area takes uh the drainage from the center of town right so from South Pleasant Street North Pleasant Street down Amity Street this is where it all flows it used to be a a Farmland and now it's really all turned to the west of it to Wetlands um I can go into more detail I'll stop there we can talk about the lineation knowing that that will be back and so uh NE I'll yield it to you you can actually if you leave your share out this is perfect right here I st to this yeah um I don't even know why you're hiring me Tom you just do all you do good enough talking I don't need to say anything um yeah so we looked at the delineation um you know we we we tweaked a couple Flags in the field nothing major on the northern part you can see some of that kind of like zigzaggy line where you know it goes up and down we kind of just smooth it out to make it you know more continuous but it doesn't really change what the buffer zone is on the site so we just kind of refined a little bit that'll be on a on a the next iteration of the plan um so that's all bbw in the back there and then on the south side of the of the project you know between this site and the and the um that what I forgot what that that's that project is yeah you know whatever that cutout is right over there yeah I don't know what that building is over there but yeah that's marijuana yeah that's another one so it's another you know it's all wetland in there like Tom was saying it takes all the drainage and it kind of comes through that area and kind of moves over towards 116 um there is a we call it a local Wetland on The Amity Street side it's more of a storm water sale but under the under the bylaw it would be regulated in town um it's you know it's got vegetation in it now because it really hasn't been maintained in in a more recent years but it's really meant to just be a you know roadside sell and it's kind of started to vegetate in and the Culver's buried and it's in really really poor shape um we're leaving it there we're going to do some enhancements to it as part of the project you know it is you know a naturalized Wetland system um you know we're going to shift the driveway over a little bit and kind of expose some of that area that is piped and and make that part of the sale a little bit longer there's you know rest there's planting plans that kind of show Wetland planting getting put back along the edges of this area that kind of enhance the buffer zone and enhance the Wetland you know a little bit more than what's there right now you know there's no effect to any of the wet the natural Wetlands you know the state Wetlands to the South and to the um west of the site you know we're staying pretty much outside of 50 foot from from those areas um other than some minor regrading but all the Pavements outside of that you know the building will be fairly close to the Swale right there where Tom's pointing so that that's going to have you know the edge of the building is going to be you know closer to the edge of the road we didn't look at potentially taking that Swale and opening it up way a lot farther back but the pipe is buried pretty deep in that invert elevation if we were to kind of daylight that pipe closer to where the uh the new entrance is going to be near the roundabout you know there'd be a six or seven foot cut that would have to get made to make the hydrology work and you'd pretty much just have a straight vertical concrete walls down to a sale at the bottom which you know kind of defeats the purpose of making this nice natural like stream which is I think the original thought that we had so we're just going to try to enhance what's there as as part of kind of a little like an enhancement package for the for the pro for the project um yeah and like uh Erin and Tom said we're re kind of repurposing the existing storm water that was out there and permitted and designed and you know trying to reuse that as as best that we can because it's already there and it's already functioning and you know it's kind of converted a lot you know it's not formal Wetland but it's got Wetland vegetation growing in it if you look at it quickly it looks like a wetland um and there's some small tweaks to the plan we're going to make based on the field walk today there's a large Willow on the western side of the site which I think probably comes out just inside the limit of work if you if you survey located it but we'll try to tweak the grading to you know save that one large tree that's over there um but yeah for for Wetlands that's kind of kind of it it's it's essentially a buffer zone project and redoing the the roadside Swale area trying to make that a better Wetland a local wetland in the end uh yeah and that what just so um there's a catch Basin right here that's piped and it if you went out there now it Daylights about in this area that catch Basin if you follow it up through the gis system catches all of the the runoff on Amity Street and all the side streets to Amity Street drain in into that uh the pipe which discharges down here so that's how this and if you drive by now it's got the cat and N Tails in it that uh is how it was created and so you know looking to keep it piped daylight it here and then puled it again as we get under and then it discharges into Hadley and if you go along Rocky Hill Road in Hadley there's a sale uh probably natural and somewhat carved by the water that leads to the rest of the Wetland you could definitely tell that swell once you get into Hadley is dug out routinely it's more you know exi you could tell it's scooped out with an excavator to kind of just keep it keep it clean have positive drainage and then just one last uh image to show you is is the vegetation mitigation plan so we've got about I think it's 3.25 to1 3:1 uh mitigation for disturbance I think it's 9,000 square feet of increased existing disturbance and we've got about 30,000 square feet of of proposed mitigation that you see kind of in this plan will be back with some you know Phil and I even talked today about maybe doing some infiltration over in this area depending upon what the soils show for some recharge to hit the the recharge storm water standard but this gives you a sense of what we're talking about for the level of reveg that we'd be looking to put in here so I know it's a lot to throw out at everybody but um we want to be respectful of time so questions we're happy to answer them but we know we'll be back hopefully I I think realistically um 1 December meeting because I don't know that you're going to meet last of November if there's a second November we're happy to come to that one but if not first of December would be terrific so thank you thanks Tom um thanks Steve okay commissioner hands up um I didn't see who went up first I'm just gonna go from the top Bruce so I have a question and a a comment based on being at the site visit um with regard to the site visit the thing that I came away with was a lot of the positive virtues that are being described are dependent on longterm ongoing maintenance some of the problems that are there now are because the maintenance wasn't done not by this owner but just over time there was the maintenance wasn't done and so going forward with this project I wonder if there's some way that the the applicant the owner can come back to the commission say every five years to demonstrate that the M maintenance has occurred so that's just a thought the other is about the d letter uh the file number letter on on point number five why is it TSS removal from the state of New Jersey that is cited or is that a typo no if if I could just a quick response there so Phil Henry our engineer cited the a hydrodynamic separator which and Phil correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know that Massachusetts has the data on it and so we had he had suggested that New Jersey had the data and that's what Mark Stinson was asking for was that information and we had sent that over to Erin all right thank you than SP I want to put a pin in that comment about the maintenance scheduling um go ahead Jason thank you um Tom did you say that there's parking inside the buildings or were you a this extra parking lot in the interior between the buildings no so in here there's 40 covered spaces and then I think 32 spaces you see this like dashed line in this rectangle there's going to be uh interior parking in those areas on the first floor so you've got 42 plus 36 unit uh 78 units and then how many parking spots underneath yeah so there's there's in in this iteration I think there's 85 units in the six story iteration I think there's 111 units and I want to say there's 186 parking spaces Al together between surface and covered given that there's some increased uh buffer zone impact is there potential to remove those part spots at the uh was it the North End if this is North just the north side remove those and pull some of that impact away from there yeah it's great are you being required to have all of these uh surface parking spots yeah it's it's a little bit of a couple of things so one these are proposed to be pervious for what that's worth um and so we're not saying impervious we would go through and have omm associated with these being permeable parking spots you know for a for a project like this and the investment that it takes and us really the risk associated with it um having it underp parked and then potentially underutilized is a is a great risk and so I think I'll speak for Barry what he tried to do was was balance the minimum amount of parking he's going to need for a project like this with the environmental factors and that's why we we're putting pervious here because we thought being so close it makes sense to at least be more environmentally sensitive so it's not a direct like we actually need more parking frankly like under the bylaw we need two per uh unit plus this is mixed use so there's commercial space on the first floor of this building and commercial space on the first floor of this building and so what we're doing like if you gave every use it's due I you know I can look at it I think you need like 20 uh 23 spaces and that's at the 85 unit version you add another pick a number of units you need much more so this is really like probably the limit of where the the the Comfort level is finding that balance okay um and so I understand that I uh um not on the zoning board so I I I won't go into my thoughts too much about that but uh in the middle there there's a pollinator Meadow area seed uh with a catch Basin in it and I saw there's only 77% TSS removal I know there was a comment about d letter is that catch Bing is that is that area designed to be a like a biofiltration Swale or biofiltration or is that strictly seated and that catch Basin is only catching water that falls on that particular triangular Island yeah it's a great question so at this time it's it's not but you know I me in full disclosure we had the site visit yesterday Erin raised a couple of good points I went back Phil and I had a long conversation today and and we said let's see what the commission is saying and then we can react and so if you know the the TSS is something we can look at this we can look in these areas to see if there are additional um Maneuvers we can do in order to get that TSS you know I think the Redevelopment standard do make it better than before you know improve it I don't know that we need to reach the 80% and Phil can or you can all correct me if I'm wrong but um I you know that said I think we're looking to make the site as good as we can so if you've got a suggestion of you know making this something else we talked about bio retention in here maybe something like that that works but I think right now and Phil correct me but this is just the catch Basin to catch this and then pipe it um you know ultimately through these drainage over here to the hydrodynamic separator and then into this detention Basin yep I would love to see that Island along with the associated parking spots around it being p uh C you know that that would be great from my just personal standpoint I think that would go a long way to help but not that we can necessarily dictate that to you thank you thanks Jason um so I'm going to weigh in a little bit here so I just want to remind the commission um we are up to the 30 foot buffer so we're within the 50 Foot Noe build it is a Redevelopment but there is an increase in building footprint um so we are looking to mitigation um and how much mitigation we are asking is up to the commission just for some context um some recent projects that we've done were 4 to1 and in other cases you know in the T to one um from my perspective I would not consider the median of a parking lot to be mitigation so I would like you to excerpt that from your mitigation calculations that is pretty much um a case in point of an isolated nonfunctional kind of habitat I mean it's it's great great that you're doing it and I don't want you to scratch what you're doing but I think from the um The Ledger of what we're impacting and what we're replacing that doesn't really count as any kind of habitat or Wayland mitigation um I'm curious about what the trees are that you're planning for here because there's going to be a lot of salt there's going to be a lot of heat stress there's going to be a lot of like um uh pavement Island heat stress going on and what kind of native trees you're planting okay I you have that up there so I am not an expert in looking climate forward 30 years from now what's going to do great on an island in the middle of a parking lot in south ammer or basically low-lying ammer but I'm not sure I think it would be worth looking at those specific ones especially for the median um so Tom I know that you said that okay I think you said you're doing 9,000 mitigation with 30,000 impact so I think it would be great in our next meeting to see like sort of a breakdown of the buffer zone alterations versus the mitigation um proposal for this so you know it looks it looks it looks pretty good I like what you're the details that you have here I just think that like not you know what Jason was talking about pervious and um storm water management for that Island is great but I don't really consider it to be well Wetland mitigation um other people can weigh in on that Jason I see your hand up still are you is it Remnant okay yeah yeah would you consider one of the other questions I had was that existing Wetland on the AMD Street side if there were enhancements done there would you consider that to be mitigation or is that just enhancements to existing can you mitigate existing or do you have yeah that's a good question and I think that comes back to what Bruce's comment was is that we would also probably like to see some a long-term plan so not just like a three-year sign off on the permit but something that's going to ensure to us that that um if you're going to propose some like ecological lift for that Wetland strip that it's going to be um life of the project um so that would probably entail some invasive management you know salt from the road management whatever it's going to take to maintain the conditions that you are proposing here in the long term if any Commissioners have any comments on whether or not they would consider that or not consider that to be mitigation please go ahead um I'd also like to just tell the public that we'll take public comment on this so while we're discussing it please raise your hand Jason do you have a followup yeah just what I'm just curious what other enhancements and that doesn't necessarily need to be answered tonight but if if that Culvert takes drainage from all of amid Street all of that's a huge Watershed going to that small sale but this project potentially affords some opportunities to increase water quality coming off of that big Watershed by doing some enhancements to this and what potential enhancements could be done to have a positive effect on all that water quality as it comes through this Culver that's a great question yeah do you have any suggestions I mean I think some of it is probably like biofiltration um Steve probably has some comments on this and I I just want to add in like because we're possibly removing that median strip like I understand there may be like a driveth through pervious Section to this and is is there a planned business for that does that need to be there um is there a way to because it is on the south side and and when I'm thinking about mitigation I'm thinking about connectivity so if it can be connected to the boundaries and the perimeter of this existing Wetland and the proposed mitigation that's all the better so we don't like to see isolation when we're talking about mitigation go ahead Bruce Alex was me for me sorry I can't see Alex go ahead Alex um Barry has other properties around town and I wonder if he might be interested in um in addition to what we're talking about an off-site mitigation proposal yeah good question um we don't have to answer that tonight but um maybe it could be taken into account um with all the other comments going on Bruce do you wanna yeah I justess I'm not sure how this plays out but remember that all of this water that we've been describing we are sending it to Hadley and I think we need to keep our neighbor in mind I don't know what we do about that but at least we should could discuss it with the Conservation Commission over there and just say we're trying our best to not send you egregious amounts of storm water yeah um I'm not I don't think that we've encountered that direct um hydrological connection before um Aon do you have any comments about the interface with another town I mean this is an existing um condition excuse me um but I think all of the comments that have been made relative to enhancing improving that that Swale which is essentially functioning as a stream um I mean I've I have been by there probably since since Tom and I started talking about this project I've probably been by there 30 times and every time I look at it and it's flowing like a stream through there um whether it's rained in the last 10 days or not I mean we were just there it we haven't had much rain in the last you know eight to 10 weeks and it is it is inundated um so um I I've part of my guidance to the applicant in reviewing this multiple times in advance of this filing was suggesting enhancement of that Swale cleaning it regular maintenance of it and also um providing uh some some level of um management of it but also you know that that it have some plantings and you know some sort of um bio component like vegetation in it to to provide some some benefit um you know one of my comments was about the Culvert um there's a culvert between that Swale and the the Wetland to the West um that proposal I believe was for a 24 inch Culvert and the existing Culvert is 30 inches and so my strong guidance out in the field when I discovered that was we need to open this up and make it bigger because part of what that undersized Culvert is doing is damning up the water um that's coming through and um the more it can flow freely the more um you know the less wet that strip will be and and it'll it'll serve better function and not um create damage like storm water damage in the future if we get big storms um but relative to the flow of water I mean it's it's impossible for us to stop water flowing between Town boundaries similar to property lines I think we do our best to um make sure we're not dumping property onto an U excuse me dumping water onto a neighboring property but um water flows downhill so so um that area that is to the West is a is a very large Wetland system um there's actually a um some type of a a Wildlife Reserve back there so um I'm not um I'm not super concerned as far as um mechanisms to prevent that water from moving where it's wanting to go in where it has been moving for decades okay so it's not a big change from existing conditions is is the sort of the root of that there go ahead Rachel yeah I just want to say it's it's nice to see a project redeveloped um you know this isn't a this one thing we talked about on the site Vis this isn't a green site this is a site that's under utilized today so it's nice to see it being activated and I think one of the challenges of this project is that we're trying to tie into existing storm water infrastructure that was installed under different standards um so I appreciate what the applicant's trying to do here and how they're going to tweak things for that I did have a question um in the storm water report it's clear that you're improving the flows you know you're reducing Peak Flows at at all the storms which is great um but the numbers are really high and sometime like 35 CFS 32 CFS in some cases and I I know I looked at the area just if you could look more closely at the specific release points and see if we have any place that we need a little bit more Armory uh to prevent erosion at those Outlet points so that might be um at the cobbert at the you know at the boundary on the west or even the outlet control structure that's there now you know how you're using that if you need additional armoring or level spreading or something in those areas to make sure that we won't have erosion um as we have increased rainfall in the future thank you thanks Rachel Jason yeah I just wanted to ask for a point of clarity the uh Town line is that the back of the property or no it's probably if you can see my screen it's probably somewhere over here uh so there's there's this strip between the end of this property and then where the Town Line is so you've got a little bit away there's I think there actually is like a a buried pipe um in that area that like where it terminates probably is the Town Line and then that then laying between the Town Line and the back of this property line is owned by the town no uh whoever owns the Westerly abing property okay so Town Line here and then there's just a different like if you follow this there's just a different property owner right in this yeah area to the Town Line and they obviously own over the at least according to the gis shows and I think the survey shows I haven't done the total title on that property because it's somewhat immaterial to us but yeah there's somebody else that owns it I think from this across the Town Line and then beyond the Town Line okay my last comment is that Alex brought up potential offsite mitigation um is there potential for a partnership with a town to you know you mentioned seeking funds from a something for the roundabout to potentially improve or um catch and slow the water coming down Amity Street by using like a green streets green gutters type of um BMP system to catch and catch biofiltration and slow the discharge of that water coming down Amity Street into that existing storm drain um as a potential off-site mitigation we can talk to Guilford and J I would expect Gilford and and Jason will probably be the two folks to talk to at DPW but yeah we can certainly have that conversation yeah know that would count as mitigation I don't think that would count as mitigation as far as we're concerned because the storm water is DPW perview but it is a great idea um but I'm open to you know being uh creative with the offsite mitigation so if you guys want to talk to her and about that offline about things we've done in the past that'd be great um I just want to summarize the comments I guess from the commissioners before we go and I I don't see any public comment so I think uh Jason commented on like having that median in the parking lot be perious or having some kind of storm water treatment is that right Jason did I'm summarizing that correctly that's correct treatment in the island with perious parking around yeah and then we had off-site mitigation and we had long-term maintenance um to maintain the conditions that are being proposed we had um an increase in mitigation or a decrease in the footprint um as I would like to exclude the median strip um we'd like to confirm that the tree plantings will be resilient to heat and salt stress and will be climate resilient and as Rachel said um just confirming that the release points for the erosion or the release points and the erosion Outlet points are um either where they need to be reduced or um armored to account for the expected outflows there did I miss anything Commissioners okay so I think that summarizes some of the things we'd like to talk about next time okay any final comments otherwise I think we're looking to oh Erin go ahead um so just in terms of the continuance date Tom I had you on for November 13th for the continuation um did you want to continue to the 13th or yeah 13th is great I think we can uh I'm talking to you Phil I think we can uh hustle to get what we need and eron if you know if you have time maybe next week we can talk about some of these things offline yeah and it's not any pressure for you guys it's just uh for us to have a date to continue certain to um okay that' be great so um and you stopped sharing so now I can share my screen hopefully that was the other the the next question um let me just bear with me so I can cue up my slide well we're looking for a motion to continue the public hearing to November 13th at 20 2024 at 7:30 p.m. no moved second I have Andre on the motion Jason on the second Rachel I Bruce hi thank you Bruce um Jason hi Andre hi Alex I are there any members of the public on there's no hands raised from the public and I'm an i okay thank you all have a good night we'll see you next time thank you hey all right next up um so we're opening this one this is a public he this public hearing is now called to order uh this hearing is being held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the Commonwealth and act relative to the protection of the wetlands as most recently amended in article 3.31 Wetlands protection on the town of Amber bylaw this is a notice of intent for SLR international corporation on behalf of the town of ammer for improvements to the emis Regional High School track and field facilities and Associated site work at 21 matun street map 11d Lots 81 270 and 215 okay Michelle yes Alex I need to recuse myself from this so I'm going to turn off my camera which is off and I'm gonna turn off my microphone I'll be back for the next hearing okay thanks Alex okay Aron looks like you're pulling folks in hi Kevin hello um anyone else please raise your hand Mike Mike all right we'll go five minutes for staff comment and then we'll go to you guys and we'll let you do your presentation and then we'll do public comment so um similar to the last uh project I was able to get a couple comments out later this afternoon um just a cple coule General observations um so I'm not I'm not particularly concerned about storm water on this site um mostly because you know we're not we're not talking about a a high TSS situation here being that it's a um a field um so uh one one comment was that you know there will be an irrigation system and we know we have uh the flashy tan Brook um system and so to prevent any impacts of um additional flooding that may already be happening with the tan um that there needs to be some assurance that the irrigation system will be um not functioning when we're having rainstorms um also the um during the site visit it was observed that there was a large amount of um grass clippings and leaves that are being piled up immediately adjacent to the tan Brook Culvert Inlet um and so my recommendation was that there be a different area designated needed for compost of those types of materials primarily because that material is washing into the stream um and you know certainly don't want to be clogging up infrastructure with um Landscaping debris uh operation and maintenance plan uh I submitted some comments back mostly the um there wasn't a an actual plan that was tied to the operation and maintenance um and so we need to identify where the storm water structures are where the areas of Maintenance are um relative to the operation maintenance plan and then the standard um operation and maintenance log that we use needs to be associated with that and the unique identifiers should correlate with one another um and oh I don't think it's going to be an issue for your TSS but mostly just for checks and balances to have the TSS removal worksheets um updated to have the full treatment train um Incorporated on the sheets um that was basically my comments um the if you look at the plan this is a buffer zone only project and really barely touching the buffer zone um DP does not so the tan Brook is intermittent in this stretch um we've done extensive extensive research on the um where the tan Brook turns perennial and it's certainly not perennial until it pops out over um by mlen Street where it's daylit um so the section that is north of this site is intermittent which means it has 100 foot buffers Zone and the work that's proposed is barely touching that buffer zone the the stream is piped underground in a culvert um but under the D regulations once a um a stream goes underground for at least 200 feet it's no longer jurisdictional which is the case in this instance so we're talking about a very very small bit of impact to the buffer zone um on the northern part of this site thanks Saron Kevin or Mike um okay Dave I see your hand up did you want to just add some staff comment um not really Michelle but thank you I just wanted to see if um Ain could bring Bob parent Bob parent is um our representative from the town he's our special capital projects manager and I just wanted the commission to see him and get to know him and he if questions come up that the SLR team can't answer Bob is here as well thank you sure thanks Dave Andre do you have a logistics question I have a question and it's um a quick one is that uh is that proposal for the place where the current where the track currently is and historically has been yes it's a replacement of the track thank you y okay um Kevin Mike do you w to give us an update from your end please sure I'll uh I'll give a broad overview and then pass it off to Mike for more of the the technical aspects of the project I'm let just share my screen to give some general information can everyone see the uh aerial of the campus we can thank you okay great so we're talking about the ammer pelum Regional High School campus at 21 maton Street uh the project does entail uh removal and reconstruction of a new running track the existing running tracks located on the south side of the property it is a six Lane running track um ovals and straightaway uh the proposal is to remove that in its entirety um there's a shot putut event area in one dzone high jump in the other the long jump and pole vault areas are just outside of it to the east there is currently a six pole high-intensity discharge lighting system all of what I just mentioned will be removed as part of the project uh this is just our survey uh showing the area of the the project um the wetlands that we're talking about the tan Brook is delineated in the far northwest corner and the buffer Falls just along our project limit lines The Proposal is to uh reorient the track uh build a brand new facility with a north south preferred orientation uh this helps keep sunlight out of the athletes eyes we're proposing to expand the facility from a six Lane running track in straightaways to an eight lanane uh which is more conducive to running efficient track meets and also um if the school decides to do U more higher level competition uh you know Regional or multis School meets the grass the field inside the track will be reconstructed natural grass uh we're calling the field with inside the track a high performance track uh high performance field as we'll be amending the soils to increase permeability uh which will allow for better play the the spoils from the construction on on this facility will be transferred to the grass field area to the west and will be spread out and to create a second multi-purpose grass field um this just this represents this number nine represents just a painted javelin throw area um this is The discus event area uh basically in the current location of where it is now however it will be a new discus area in cage where showing a softball field footprint this is not part of the project but we wanted to uh during the design process uh show the the stakeholders that we were saving uh space for the potential of a future softball facility this new track and field area will have a four pole LED lighting system there will be a concrete bleacher pad constructed as part of this project but um as the budget currently lies we're not proposing any new spectator seating at this time time the track will be surrounded by a 4ft chain link fence and a uh new ADA Compliant walkway around the entire perimeter an ADA walkway con connecting to uh improved sidewalk improvements in pedestrian drop off along matun Street and an ADA accessible walkway up to the high school parking lot with that uh being the general overview of the proposed improvements I'll pass it off to Mike uh gagman from our office our professional engineer and I believe he'll be sharing his screen thank you Kevin I hope everybody can hear me okay um I think what I would like to do is just give a brief uh overview um you know recognizing um the scope of this project so I'm just going to share um give me a second everybody can see that yeah so you know what I'm going to talk about first and foremost is um you know just uh bear with me a second here is the Wetland delineation um that we've been talking about so again you know here's the existing running track and the area um that was delineated this is a clip uh directly from our Wetland delineation report um as was mentioned um the area of uh bvw in Inland Bank um uh associated with tan Brook um is up here at the inlet uh to the Culver uh which is in this area here and just for orientation this is located behind the existing residences um that are along um Chestnut Street so um with that just to kind of give an overview of storm water management improvements um I won't go into a lot of detail but just kind of describe um you know what's involved as part of this project is um you know obviously uh one of the first tasks that we undertook with this project um is to assess the condition of the existing tan Brook Culvert um obviously with the investment of this type of a project we wanted to ensure that that the Integrity um of the Culvert was sound we actually did a um video survey uh back in January and it was determined that you know the pipe itself uh throughout the reach uh within the site is is in good condition so um that was a good thing um so again with the orientation of the proposed running track one of the things that we had had to consider um is the additional uh impervious area associated with the additional Lanes um associated with the track uh the concrete bleacher pad and some of the other minor uh additional impervious areas uh with a pedestrian improvements so we have uh Incorporated a storm water management plan uh consisting of a subsurface infiltration system located here and then we have a series of storm water um basins around the perimeter of the site um located here and really that's to provide um not only storm water management I.E you know Peak flow a reduction but also um water quality enhancement uh particularly with the additional impervious area um we were able to accomplish that um within the um storm water infiltration system uh which actually provides both groundwater recharge um as well as uh TSS removal um and again as Aaron had mentioned early on you know this site um is not going to be a tremendous uh TSS load uh recognizing that um you know there is not not going to be any deicing agents uh obviously applied to the track during the during the winter months um you you know um just some other details uh with this project we've we've also included a uh sedimentation or ER Roan control plan um as shown here and we're showing the location of the existing stockpile area um obviously in order to construct the proposed uh track and and inner facility um the intent is to essentially strip all of the existing top soil uh within this area stockpile it and that material will essentially be reused uh once it's amended um during construction that that soil will actually be tested um you know uh for nutrient value um and also amended uh with with sand um in order to promote um a degree greater degree of uh infiltration um which is not happening uh with with the current facility uh um and with that we're also providing perimeter uh controls consisting of uh compost filter to um all of the existing uh catch Basin inlets within the project uh area we we'll get uh Inlet protection and because this Project's going to um disturb um essentially greater than one acre um we are required to file um with under the uh construction storm water General permit um W with EPA and again that will be uh um filed um by the perspective contractor thanks Mike um I'm gonna just ask you to if you're not done just to wrap up real quick so we can get to commission that's that's that's pretty much my presentation so great thank you um okay um if there's any public comment please raise your hand now and I'll get to the room um Commissioners any questions or comments on this one Rachel go ahead yeah thanks for that presentation and thanks for the site walk um really excited about this project uh one of the things that's nice is that it's orienting the field in a way that's more advantageous for the field of play facing north and south rather than east and west means kids can actually see the ball at Sunset so that's great um I was curious about the field of play and I mentioned this on site that the the sewer manhole has dropped a foot below the field of play which is great for safety um kids running over it and you know slipping or twisting an ankle and I'm curious about the subsurface storm water system and and that interface with the kids it looks like there's some manholes that are in areas where they might be running past and and could be a safety thing so if those could be dropped um and also if there are any ports for inspection of the subsurface system if if those you know what that interface is with the surface of the track material with the field material and is there and also have you looked at maybe another configuration where you shift it so that those um access ways and area ways could actually be in the concrete and and not in conflict with the field of play that was a question um also was curious I know you're not really touching the parking lot except for the new accessible walkway which is great for Access um but wondering if you might consider working with the shade tree committee or or the tree Warden to look at shade trees along the slope um to help reduce the heat impact of the storm water coming off of of that parking lot area um and then I'm thinking about um with accessible spaces and this is outside kcom jurisdiction maybe thinking about restriping the accessible spaces um to line with that new lower walk um I know right now they're sort of at the intersection of the parking lot and it' be great if the parallel Ada spaces are closer to that lower section for ease of access uh well I'll address that last uh point that you made and I did not mention that just because of the brevity of the presentation but we are going to restripe that western side of the parking lot and we're going to provide two new accessible spaces in the northwest corner closest to that slope down to the uh the track and field facility so um we'll accommodate one standard accessible parking spot and one band accessible spot and then there'll be a new drop ramp that will allow um an accessible access down uh a 4% uh pathway down to the new track and field facility and I can Mike can address the cover on the uh the structures that we're showing uh those would be buried below the top soil level and they would have a magnetic uh or metallic marker on them to be easily located located and dug up if necessary because right now I know we have two structures for that infiltration um gallery that are located in the what we liked our preferred overrun area of the field which is a 15ot buffer so in no instance would we have a physical structure uh in the playing surface or within 15 feet of it great so it sounds like two out of three of Rachel's questions were addressed and then the shade tree one is not exactly a perview but it is a great comment so if you if you may we did we did look at shade trees along that Eastern Slope and and two things prevented us from committing to that um partly that slope is 3:1 if not 2: one in some locations and we're putting a walkway along that parking lot um and we saw it was going to be a challenge to get uh trees in there um also there is a thought that in the future um spectator seeding could also go into that slope which we'll use initially as a natural spectator area um but eventually that would be ideal space for a small small amount of spectator seating along with an accessible Press Box um so we didn't want to um we didn't see that as a great opportunity um we also thought about shade trees along matun street but if you look at a street view or you go out there um that's where the overhead wires are serving the school in that that campus area um so it's not the ideal side of the street for significant vegetation but would be happy to look at other areas within the project site um we just know Spa field space is limited and we're we're already taking more than they they they are already have with this expanded facility thanks Kevin Bruce I I just wanted to ask at the site visit Rachel asked a number of what seemed to me as a as a novice really good questions about the residences to the west and the linkage of the the depth of various things and their basements and this and that I just wondered if Rachel you felt like you got the answers you needed about how all this would affect those those Residential Properties yeah I think it's it's I I just wanted them to be aware they weren't showing those footprints on the plans people typically don't that's coming above and beyond but just wanted to be sure that you're aware that there are houses next to where the storm water basins are and I had asked them to consider um any additional uh protections they might need to do for those adjacent houses um because they are proposing drainage basins in those localized areas um and if if they needed to consider any subsurface drainage in those basins to make sure that they're not increasing groundwater um groundwater flow in those towards those homes um and you know we talked a little bit about the distance and things like that but it was something something mentioned thanks Bruen Rachel Kevin do you want to respond to that now or is that something we are going to return to um Mike may have a response right now I I don't um I'm sure that consideration was given we uh we do we did test pits out there and I believe and Mike correct me if I'm wrong groundwater was found three and a half to four feet down depending on where we where we dug yes that is correct actually deeper than that um I'm just sharing um a screen at the moment just to show everybody or the commission on the relationship of the storm water basins with the adjacent properties and you know we did take a look at that um you know based on on the comments that we heard during the site visit um realistically the closest uh there's this commercial property here um water quality Basin 3 that is about 38 ft uh to the face of this building and I believe um this is slab on grade um in terms of Residential Properties uh which are you know these three homes up in this area um we took a look at the proximity of water quality Basin 2 um and that is about 55 feet close to 60 feet um from this property here so you know quite a distance um and also keep in mind um these these tructure or these basins um although they may fill um we do provide uh yard drains within the base of those so that you know they will drain out so they're not going to hold um a significant amount of water um over time thanks Mike uh Bob I saw your hand up I don't did you ask that I was going to make the last point that Mike made which there are low-level drains in each one of those basins for that purpose so that we can ensure that they don't hold water for any extended period of time great thanks Bruce did you want to follow up or do you have another comment okay go ahead Jason uh can you Bob or Mike can you clarify the the death of which those basins will hold water I didn't see any details for them in this set plans are they going to be holding a foot of water or two inches of water can you just clarify that if you wouldn't mind starting off Mike that would be great yeah absolutely I'm just sharing again sorry about that but um just to show you an example so you know looking at Basin three you know this one is going to be fairly shallow one of the things that you know we needed to consider with these is you know with the possibility of like an errant ball during play um you know we we tried to soft grade these so to speak four to five to one slopes depending on where they were in proximity to the field and they're not that deep either so for example this one um is only about a foot and a half deep um if we move up to Basin two um kind of the same thing this is maybe a foot and a half uh likewise water quality Basin one is probably the the deepest and this one is you know most remote uh with respect to adjacent properties this one's about um 2 and 1 12et deep so that kind of gives you an idea of of what that is if that helps thanks so they're meant to to hold a small amount of water that's going to get to them via like Overland flow correct is there concern then about a road I mean if they're not I assume that again I didn't see details are you having it doesn't look like there's swales cut in or very well- defined swes necessarily cut in to take water to these basins so are you will you have any kind of erosion protection in the long term to prevent these the slopes from being eroded with that Overland flow I think Mike if you want to pull the plan back up we are also taking uh significant piece of the water that's coming in is coming in by our piped structures yard drains on the field area and the perimeter drain on the track so it I don't know percentage wise how much of it is over Overland versus how much of it is piped but I do know that a significant piece of it originates from basically an outlet that comes into the Pond area and then again leaves the pond area if if I'm correct it's all pretty flat yeah okay um I see Michelle I had one last com go ahead what we just meant we were talking about the adjacent properties water quality Basin 2 appears to slope the back of it slopes towards the adjacent properties is that correct yeah and there's Act actually there is a um wooded buffer or natural Swale um that runs along the the property line um back in that area so there is a natural depression and if I may pull that up again um sorry to keep jumping here but I assume this is the area that you're talking about right in here W I just want to make sure we're not yeah so as you can see relatively similar exting right we're grading down 287 and then it stops at 286 um which is down in this area and then it does go back up slightly um to the adjacent parcel will we be creating a wetland there no because um as was mentioned these these are designed to drain out um you know per D requirements uh we have to demonstrate that these will be dewatered uh within 72 hours sorry not in the Basin but in that 286 there if that's a low-lying area is that collecting it seems like that is like a trough there with a sell where that would collect water and that's not considered Wetland now correct that what that was looked at um by our soil scientists and that was not not determined to be a wetland all right okay I'm gonna go to public Andre I'm sorry real quick uh did you say that was not determined to be a wetland and that it was uh looked at by the soil scientist correct okay thank you okay um I'm seeing no more hands I'm going to go to public comment I see Maria Kopi going to allow you to speak so we have 2 minutes for a public comment please and I don't have controls apparently do you mind giving talk allowance I think I've got yeah you guys can hear me hi Maria kapiki South Amber um first I I just want to express on behalf of a lot of people that have been following this project for a long time much appreciation um especially that this is going to be a grass field there are a lot of people that cared very deeply about that and so I want to appreciate that uh I want to appreciate the commission as well for paying a lot of attention um I I heard Erin say that uh there's not a lot of concerns about storm water but as you all know it's really important that we get this project right the first time so please whatever you need to do to make sure that that that's all we're all good here is appreciated I did have one question about uh the wetlands that are up in that northeast corner of the these fields I realize that that is not directly a part of this project but there's that other field that's up in the in the Northeast and I'm wondering um would there be any have in your Explorations is there any um any mitigations or or any improvements that can be done to help with any with any wetness issues up there maybe some native planting so maybe while you guys are out assessing this as a whole to see if there's anything that can be done to improve at all that the situation up in the northeast corner I know that it's not a part of this project it was it's just a question for you um while we're while we're working on the site um but much appreciation thank you thank thank you very excited about this project thanks Bria so I don't think that we're needing to require mitigation for this because they're pretty much outside the buffer there and the flows don't really work towards um any kind of storm water um direction to the northeast corner but I guess Kevin Mike and Bob you've heard the comment and it is a a point where this project could maybe have have some enhancement to the overall conditions of the of the site and maybe even have some cool interface with the um students there because I know that they go do things out there for class so have you looked at it has there been any explorations of that and you and you don't have to answer that now but it would um you know add to the benefit of this larger project if you could maybe comment on that at some point um I'm going to go to the next public comment Pamela Rooney Pamela Rooney 42 Cottage Street uh thanks for working on this project I have a couple of questions um one in particular that's because people have raised the concern about uh water in basements on the west side of east side of Cottage Street um I wonder if if somebody can re reiterate exactly what the treatment will be of construction above the uh tan Brook pipe I understand it's not going to be moved so therefore it has to be built on top of um so that is of concern second question is are there actual setback requirements from drainage basins from property lines and I I do look uh pretty carefully at the ones that have been discussed tonight um just in terms of collecting water as close as as possible to the to the perimeter because it gives you more playroom play play field um a grading question that came to my attention when I looked at the grading plan is that uh one of the properties on the east side of the street um has a very large uh old silver maple that is probably pretty close to the property line with the school and I see extremely tight grading being proposed literally wrapping around the corner of that property and I think that is very is way too tight for a tree of of that size to survive that kind of construction and I would ask if there's some way that that can be mitigated um let's see uh and last question is just about the the soils I looked at the soil test pit results and it looked as though much of that material is brown Sandy silt and I just wonder what the characteristics of that soil is in terms of its permeability it's being proposed to be used as uh the material to create a new Playfield um is it is it going to work uh is that field going to be uh able to drain and and be usable thanks thanks pela so that was a lot of questions um Erin do we have a setback for St water baens do you think you could weigh in on that one jurisdictionally um so for infiltration uh basins it's a 50 foot minimum setback but every BMP has a different setback um but for infiltration Basin it would be a 50 feet minimum from a wetland okay and so are we meeting that in all cases um for the proposed infiltration basins yes they're they're nowhere near the buffer zone okay um I think my I think my question was setbacks from property lines not from other Wetlands so from a from a concom standpoint there isn't a um uh storm water regulatory storm water setback from a property line that I'm aware of okay um Kevin Mike Bob heard Maple um maybe you could be um more deaft in your grading and perhaps give the root system a bit of a leeway when you're out there is that something that can be accommodated just to save some shade in a tree yeah I'm seeing I'm seeing a nod from Kevin so I assume that'll be noted y um let's see what else was there I think that um I'm going to rely on the project proponents applicants to hear what else what has been said and come back because this will be continued tonight and be able to address um concerns from the abutters and public Jason yeah I think Pam brought up a good point with this being Sandy soils and everything and and I believe uh it was mentioned that the soil is going to be amended is uh are we concerned or do we have I I'm concerned about having to put um potentially excessive amounts of soil mment to get uh to get grass to grow on these and are we going to be adding soil amendments year after year after year if it's particularly Sandy and doesn't hold a lot of organic matter if we want it to drain it's not going to have a whole lot of organic matter so is that going to be replaced with Contin application of soil amendments and then what are the potential nutrient impacts Downstream I mean I just want to point out that this was on the pro and con you know list of things for artificial turf versus natural Turf and so here we are with natural Turf and I think that it was um part of the bigger picture about what the downstream effects would be if we covered that in artificial turf and I think it was understood that having a natural turf field is going to require amendments and fertilization so unless you got guys know exactly what's going to be required right now and you can tell us or if that's going to be something that you discover when you do the excavation I mean please address it now if you know I assume that you'll have to do the testing once you've lifted up the dirt So the plan currently again the field within the natural within the running track is going to be uh an enhanced field with uh sand amendments uh probably a 60% sand increase uh because we are dealing with silty soils um the the remaining soil will be tested for nutrients and organic content um and that material if we determine does need some initial treatment just for suitable turf grass growth um the you typical process is that material spread and graded and then the the amendments are tilled in they're not significant like that sand Amendment that's going in the primary field um after that we've discussed with the uh the school and uh about um doing init testing of the actual field once constructed and that's really the time to develop your your uh site specific operation and maintenance plan we've also discussed with the uh the school about bringing in potentially um outside uh Contracting to do perform the maintenance we've done this successfully in other communities um and they do the annual maintenance procedures and sometime in addition to just the uh periodic mowing that's required during the growing season so that's that's currently the process that we're uh we're moving forward with thanks Kevin okay seeing no more hands I'm looking for a motion to continue this public hearing to November 13th 2024 oh Rachel's hands back up go ahead Rachel yeah I just want to um thank the public for their comments very helpful and and Jason for your comments in particular um and and also just ask applicant I'm sure you've talked about this but the period of establishment and hardening of the field and when the and making sure that we're Bob I'm sure you're on top of this too the schedule and making sure we have time for the field to harden off um before before students are out there playing so I'll just I'll address again the uh the primary field the one going within the running track uh that will be receiving a new irrigation system and I know that was mentioned early on with an irrigation system we can sod that field and um sod can generally rout and be playable within a matter of a weeks with irrigation so the goal would be to start construction on this project um as soon as the School athletics would permit in the end of the spring season uh doing summer construction um typically a project of this size takes about uh four months from initiation to completion putting us in the fall 2025 season um potentially allowing that field within the track to be used in the fall um the other field the surrounding ones and the restoration to the west and around the track would be seated um and would not be receiving a new irrigation system at this time however Provisions would be in place to expand the new irrigation system um that would require at least one full growing season so we would not anticipate that field being online until at least spring 2026 thanks Kevin um that's a bit outside of our jurisdiction so I'll leave that to you guys to figure out how to harden the field go ahead Bruce I move to I move to continue the public hearing November 13 2024 at 7:35 p.m. I'll second Bruce on the motion Jason on the second Bruce hi J Rachel hi Jason Hi Andre hi Alex are you still there Alex is a ruse I'm an i okay thank you guys we'll see you on November 13th have a good night thank you okay um next up we have each engineering on behalf of wayfinders Incorporated for the demolition of two existing residential dwellings and constructions of a new proposed Residential Building associated site and utility improvements including parking and storm water management at 7280 belr toown road map 15c Lots 58 59 and 60 this is open um it is being continued if there's public comment raise your hand quickly otherwise I'm looking for a motion to continue this unless Aon you have an update that we should hear right now oh they're just working on revisions um particularly invasive species management um so okay thank you I'm seeing no hands so I'm looking for a motion to continue I'll move to continue the public hearing to November 13 2024 at 7:40 p.m. second B on the motion Alex on the second Rachel hi Jason Hi Bruce hi Alex hi Andre I I'm an i okay next up we have notice intent for CWD Consultants Incorporated on behalf of University of Massachusetts building authority for the construction expansion of a regional ground Source heating exchange system including geothermal Wells at parking lot 31 and underground piping heat recovery chillers and Associate infrastructure within the existing utility plant 110 North Service Road 8A 8 C L 46 and 13B again we're looking to continue this Aon is there any public comment um raise your hand and Aaron give us an update Bruce I see your hand up Aaron take it away I do see a member of the public with their hand up Michelle um I do do you want to just give us like a one minute update please yes um so there there are some plan adjustments that are currently being made to address the commission's comments and staff comments from the last hearing they just didn't have enough time um but there there were some public comments that were received um I put those in your folder um and I ECT that that's the the commentary that you're going to hear okay um I he I see one public comment so we're going to let you talk please keep it relevant to our purview which is the wetlands and our jurisdiction and two minutes please and state your name and where you live generally thank you my name is Jona reg and I live um in district one on farview way um so I understand uh that the UMass consultant will be asking for a continuance until your November 13th meeting so I just want to make a brief comment now and we'll reserve the rest of our questions and comments until then the farview neighborhood um abuts the proposed site for the geothermal wellfield consisting of 70 Wells each 800 ft deep a part of um's geothermal heat exchange system yesterday I submitted a letter signed by a number of neighborhood residents with a list of questions to the commission members and the applicant we learned from Erin only this morning that the purview of the Conservation Commission is limited to the Project's potential impact on wetlands and potential water contamination as a result of the drilling and of the ongoing operation including impacts on the aquafer groundwater or surface water consequently um the questions in our letter that pertain to other kinds of impacts may not be directly admissible here though we sincerely hope that the applicant will respond to our question about them we'll use the time between now and November 13th to refocus our questions to the issues relevant to this commission meanwhile we hope that in preparation for considering the application the Commissioners will ask for the environmental impact statement and feasibility studies for the University's geothermal heat exchange project and the state D's best practices for geothermal drilling we also hope you'll look very carefully at any other studies and reports that have examined the projects potential environmental impacts and determine whether the applicant is proposing to use best practices in order to mitigate them thank you very much that's all for this evening from thank you thank you we look forward to a uh pointed um comments towards our jurisdiction too so we may better um understand the concerns of the abutters are any commissioner comments okay looking for a motion on this I move to continue the public hearing to November 13 2024 at 7:50 pm. second Andre on the motion Bruce on the second Rachel hi Jason Hi Jason Andre hi Bruce hi Alex hi and I'm I okay these are our hearings now we're on to some other business um enforcement comp plans heard from Aaron that there is no update on Wild Flower can we just call that a check off and move on yes okay um we have Hickory Ridge um is that it is it just Hickory Ridge is there anything else um the we were supposed to be issuing a um an order of conditions tonight but we'll be tabling that to the next meeting so um this will be our last business item okay so I just want to mention that um the information and material came in after the Wednesday of which is our deadline for new material submitted to the commission for consideration at a meeting so um hopefully everybody had a chance to review it um and I think Lawrence is here if you want to bring Lawrence in um I understand Commissioners went on a site visit so I'd like to hear from you guys about what you saw Aon do you want to just give us an update about that first and then we'll we'll move on um yeah we had a site visit um uh last Friday I believe um and it was a a beautiful day very dry um myself Alex and Rachel attended um the site looked very stable um and and Dave actually joined us sort of towards the end of the site walk a lot of good questions and discussion um and I did I believe put photos into the um maybe the photos didn't make it in um and I just will add for the record that we are considering a change to the order of conditions on this which is to um give a uh remove the phasing criteria which is I don't know three or four orders of conditions so that the um building and construction can happen within the month in um as proposed rather than phasing as planned okay well you're bringing that up eron I'll go to um commissioner comments and if there's any public comment please raise your hand and I'll get to it Alex go ahead yeah there's part of me that doesn't think we should be talking about this it uh is a very visible project and was not included on the agenda that was published so the public did not have for warning that Hickory Ridge was going to be discussed tonight and I'm a big proponent of public input uh having had a 38-year career with a federal agency that got sued a lot of times for not including the public um and they got the material in late it wasn't in the agenda that got published and I I just don't think we should be talking about it until it is published thanks Alex understood um I guess I would just point out that um at every meeting we do have other business that gets added in late which is not on our agenda so that would be an exception to our general um procedures which is to talk about things that aren't on the agenda so the difference here is that it's a more public basing uh project Bruce go ahead I think the middle ground is let's discuss it very briefly and then make sure that it gets Fuller discussion later where the public has a chance to weigh in thanks Bruce um is there any more commissioner comments on this if y go ahead Rachel yeah know the the S sidewalk was very helpful um it was hard to tell from the photos before kind of what this layout of the site was and what the issues were so that that was that was really helpful to understand what we were looking at and talking about um also wanted to say I really appreciate Michael's comments um and his the letter he said it was really clear and it was very respectful and constructive um he had a he had a couple concerns that were you know that we saw on site to and I think they could be easily resolved one would be um he was concerned about the the structures and the footings and making sure that that assembly um would be able to with stand the frost and be stable and I think if if the town hasn't already received stamped engineering drawings for that particular construction method it's something you could we could request um and that's where an engineer would would you know stand behind that that methodology or would I let us know if there was something wrong with it um and the other one was a sight line implication and as I was pulling out from that drive I almost got hit by a Jeep um and so there's a little bit of a sideline issue due to the vegetation right on right on the road and again that that's something that we might want to look at if that's jurisdictional or not or if any any pruning of branches could happen with with that um but overall it's it's phenomenal it's going to be a great place to experience and walk and the fact there's accessibility and there's demonstration areas for um for succession and restoration it's just a tremendous Jewel for for a town thanks Rachel um I just want to get a show of hands from Commissioners um so one of the things that we need to consider is whether this is a minor Amendment um minor administrative change is being requested by the applicant or is this a formal amendment process so the difference is is this a negligible um change to the plan or is this a substantive change to the order or the plans so if there's any questions that you need to ask before you raise your hand please do that um because that's probably where we need to start out so those in favor of making this a uh minor administrative change please raise your hand okay so minor administrative change is something that we could act on right away a formal amendment is something that would require um a butter notifications um resubmission of all the things so just everybody seems to be in favor of requiring a formal Amendment raise your hand for a formal Amendment okay I see a majority for a formal Amendment um all right well that's important to know um I'm not sure we can move forward with this tonight under that so Erin is that basically the information that we need to determine how we're going to move forward with this in in our hearing setting you're on mute Aaron you're on mute sorry I think it's critically important um to know what direction the commission is going with this so I think that's really valuable information for the applicants um and yeah I see the applicant has his hand up so um probably and I also see a member of the public as well so just as an fi okay sorry I can't see people that don't have their um okay Jason I'm gonna go to you and then we'll bring in Lawrence thank you I would like to hear from everybody at the site visit to get their opinions on the condition of the site prior to potentially making a decision I'm still a little unclear as far as the formal Amendment versus the minor change as to what it is that we are asking them to amend or what they're or what they're asking us if they can amend um it seemed like it was just the schedule or like the the the process by which they move on to another section of the project uh spoke last and for me a big consideration of that was the existing condition of the site and I wasn't to make the site visit so I'd like to hear from folks that's my opinion before making that decision Erin can you pull up maybe the letter that we have where it lists the actual orders of condition so we have an order of condition for this and there are four conditions that lay out the phasing so for example site or area one has to be done before area you move on to area two Etc and the point of that was to protect against um you know major erosion or site destabilization events in the case of weather events so there are probably four orders of conditions they're asking us to wave in favor of them going forward with just doing it all at once when they're proposing to do this within the month um the minor the minor administrative change requires really no attached documented change to our orders of condition um and so it's less protective against how we want to manage the site and potential um impacts the site given any kind of uncertainty during the timeline of construction so um the minor administrative change is basically like yes we can go ahead and do that and we've done this before several times with this project um and they're asking for another one so here as we can see those that first numbered points are the four conditions that they want us to wave and again those were instituted just to protect the site from destabilization um hopefully everybody reviewed this but again it came in a bit late so possibly not yeah this was only put in the packets today because it came in late yesterday um but there was an email which I also attached that provided a little information on the stabilization measures that had come in last Thursday afternoon okay so they've come with their proposed timing and proposed stabilization measures so basically are we assessing whether this is a major change the order of conditions or is this a minor administrative change that is non-substantive and we can just move forward with it um without a formal amendment is there anything else I we'd like to relay in terms of the differences between those Pathways Aon um so with the as as Michelle explained with the minor administrative change the commission can simply you know take a vote and and approve it um in an administrative capacity with a formal Amendment it requires legal ad a butter notifications and holding a public hearing to take comment on it um and and in that instance we would actually reissue the order of conditions um with adjustments so that that kind of highlights the distinction a little bit more thanks s okay um Alex and Dave and I'd like to hear from Lawrence too go ahead Alex I get a little lost in the administrative changes there's nothing really to look back on on what it was we actually agreed to and they if they build on each other we lose sight of the project when I was out on the um site visit it was plain and Lawrence pointed out that we had an or a phased approach they put um solar panels on the Eastern site and then see how it worked out and then put them on the western site Dave's out there pretty much weekly errands out there there was a decision made to flip-flop the phasing that did not come back to the commission and um and Dave and Aaron didn't bring it up either to advise us that that phasing was going to get changed um all of the when we went out there all of the uh stanions um were in for the solar panels on the western site which was supposed to be phase two so a decision was made Maybe by Aaron and Dave that that was okay to change the phasing and to go ahead and construct um and with that will be the panels or the um pads for the electrical system and the batteries and when I asked Lawrence what's the status with the batteries and and I said the manufacturer has probably gone to Great length to fix the problem that caused the fires and he goes yes they've added several items to the inside of the batteries and I said did they service your batteries he said no not yet I said when will that happen and he said after the batteries are transported to this site because whatever is being put in the batteries is delicate and might get damaged during during Transit and I said so you mean to tell me that the fire department is going to okay these batteries once they get here and he said yes so there's a whole lot going on in this project that we're sort of losing sight of and I think it would be time to come back together and talk about what's happening things are lots of things are happening we're not informed and so I think starting uh another administrative change just continues uh our losing sight of the project and this is important to the town it's important to Dave that it go well it would be embarrassing if it didn't go well and so I I think uh that's why I favor coming back to a process where we can understand very clearly what it is we're approving in an administrative change we say yeah work it out with Dave and Aaron and then um that that that's convenient but this is a mature company and I think um what I saw coming in at the last minute past the deadline in an email was a bulleted list of what they wanted didn't look particularly professional and um I I don't think it's respectful so I would like to go back to the drawing board and uh um not have another series of administrative changes thanks Alex so Alex has made a um in favor proposition for a formal Amendment and not a minor administrative change go ahead Dave sure a couple of just clarifying points um first of all Alex and others whether it's important to Dave or not is not the question before for you tonight it's really you know I want to keep I don't want to personalize this project or or pure Sky solar project or Hickory Ridge it's not about me it's about what the the commission is comfortable with um I want to also make it clear that at no time did Aaron or Dave or me give permission for Pure Sky to to move forward so I think that that that responsibility rests solely with with Lawrence and his team and I'm sure I would like to hear from him we haven't really heard from him tonight um I also want to make sure that we get back to Jason's question which I thought was really quite relevant to this whole conversation which is he asked moments ago what is the current condition of the site and I think Rachel Alex um who else was on that site visit Aaron I think it's really important for the commission to hear what is the current condition of the site because regardless of whether you think this is a major Amendment or minor Amendment I whichever way you want to go on that is fine but I think it's really important for the whole commission to hear what is the current condition of the site um I would I would put it out there that the current condition of the site is is stable and it has been throughout and it is in very good shape but I'd like to hear from Rachel or Alex on what your impression of the site was so I want to get that answered but I I'd also like the commission to hear from Lauren it's his proposal um that you're considering tonight so those are my quick comments you say yep we're going to Lawrence next I can't see Lawrence so sorry Lawrence you're that's okay I I tend not to go on video because I wander around when I'm on the phone and it just ends up looking like The Blair Witch Project and I'm sure you all don't need the motion sickness but I can go on video If you prefer um but thank you for allowing me to speak tonight the The Proposal before you is solely to do with the restructuring of the phasing which was included on the uh submitted site plans I am not asking for a W uh from the concom to uh amend those conditions to remove any of the inspections or any of the um uh things that that were required within those conditions um it is just purely an adjustment of the phasing so we build the west side and then the east side instead of the east side and then the West Side there's obviously uh no additional work or anything that's uh that's encompassed with that um that is still the plan um obviously then it's the uh and to build the pads while we are building the arrays um uh to to to to to bring that forward again no additional work no additional um uh impacts to the wetlands or anything like that it just changes the time at which we build them so in my mind they are minor we aren't coming back with a battery proposal yet because we are still working with the fire department with their peer reviewer um to get the permission from them and we will come back as previously discussed to discuss the batteries once we have the fire department's approval to proceed on that basis um I'm not we're not saying that just because the pads are going to be built we're going to install the batteries be before the concom had the opportunity to weigh in or anything like that that is that is not what we're suggesting that we we want to do that is going to be a separate meeting when the time is right when the fire department have have weighed in with with their views on the on that proposal um there is a slight misremembering um that Alex is having about that discussion I explained that there has been some stuff that's happened in the factory including the testing and the inspections and things like that but there are some measures um that have been recommended to do with with some of the waterproofing that happen when the batteries arrive on site it is obviously typical you take things out you inspect everything uh when something is is being delivered inside to to verify for damage and and things like that and at that time is when those things are put in so it it's not a question that we're going to leave completely un unchecked unimproved un everything batteries on on pads while while we wait around to to do it that they are perfectly safe the day they arrive the additional measures that are going in are ones that happen um because to to avoid any damage that happens during Transit um there have been other questions about um the uh the the the foundation design there is an engineer of record that has stamped a plan that has been submitted to the building perit building department and it had it has been issued on that basis there is testing that happens on site with it's called pull testing so after we install the uh the piles we we have we rigged them up to a testing machine and make sure that they're passing the uh the minimum requirements set by the engineers all of that is taking place um I'm not sure quite what the concom involvement would be on the structural aspects of uh of a foundation um but that but I'm happy to discuss it if if the if the concom wants to discuss it but yes we do have an engineered plan we do have uh testing requirements and we do have structural analysis all of that has been submitted as part of the building permit thanks Lawrence um we don't need to discuss that that's not our purview but thank you for answering the question so it's it's stamped we're going to remove the battery component from this conversation we're just talking about the phasing of panels so I just I want hone us back in um and thank you for answering all the bigger picture questions Lawrence so the site is currently stable um I think that gives us the picture and just again to talk about um specifically what we're considering which is like changing the phasing which is in the order of the conditions the phasing was there to minimize the impacts during construction or and to manage them and to have some control over them okay I've got three hands up um I think Rachel is first go ahead Rachel um just to answer Jason's question the site was is stable um the bare areas and the photographs are the gravel road base um the other areas around the future panels are vegetated currently um there were a couple bear patches but they were not significant and they will be you know they will be receded um the erosion control barriers were in place around the perimeter of the work area the site was clean and stable and there was a significant set down area that had um thick layers of a mulch and it was very and stabilized so the site was stable as is um and Lawrence can correct me if I'm wrong but the the the reason for the switch we were told is due to some undulations in the topography and um they had to re-engineer or look at the structures themselves on in the first where they first plan to install the structures and that's why they moved to the other site um do timing um thanks I don't think we were notified of it but okay it would happen Okay um Andre yeah I think Bruce was ahead of me there Roose Roose waved it off all right I have uh my question is is for Lawrence um if you could Lawrence uh you know you guys uh you're the you had agreed to an order of conditions and uh We've we've made a couple of changes and uh the reason why we had um the tiered you know I'm I'm not sure Lawrence if you understood the reason why there is a tiered um a tiered build uh there Lawrence do you no I do it's section of the resource in the Fort River solo yep and essentially what happens is that you know if something goes wrong when two of these when they're both uh both sides are being worked on then that's that much more Logistics that you're going to have to go through to uh to ensure that uh that it's uh stabilized Etc and two thing two you're going to have to keep your eyes on both uh uh both sides if you would um what laen asking to build both sides at the same time it would we aren asking to build both sides at the same time the the phasing would still be with the disturbance the 50% and the inspections it's just that we would build the West array rather than the East array so you're you're just so you're only looking to uh to do the switch that uh build build the East array talking about earlier yeah build build the West array before we do the East array this the the same thing would apply the 50% would happen when um uh would be inspected before we could start work on the next array uh on on the next side of it um the the only thing that we're we're we're moving up is to do with the two pads and the motivation to get the pads done now is because the the timing of that based on the if if if we stick to the current phasing the timing of those pads going in will be um late November early December and so we would miss the uh the what we have remaining of the growing season so that's why we want to get it in now when we still got a chance using things like winter Rye uh and and the uh the winter erosion mixes and things like that um so that we can get at least some growth going uh this growing season uh with the additional measures that I've proposed in that letter um to do with the the mulching the the additional um things around it to to uh to to to to prevent any erosion over the winter months sure so then what that brings up the question of the uh of the concrete how's the concrete um going to uh going to set um when it's so uh when it's so cold concrete sets in the in the cold just takes a little longer you can put accelerance in it as as well that would uh would allow for it to uh to cure but the the the temperatures uh over the next couple of months concrete will cure just fine okay thank you Alex yeah um um a decision was made I'm not quite sure when Lawrence can straight it out but there I think their original proposal was to have stationary panels and it's 40% more effective to have panels that rotate with the Sun so the decision was made to have panels that don't move east to west but they do move up and down so that they are always um an optimal angle to the Sun and that requires flat ground so when they wanted to do that the Western site is flat for all intents and purposes the Eastern site is undulating and it would worked when they had stationary panels but in order to put rotating panels up they have to take off the top of the hill on the Eastern end and so that's that's behind the flip-flop of the order and um I'm I I have not frankly gone back to the details that that we approved to figure out what's changed all I know is that uh we haven't heard from them much and there's there's been changes on the Fly for reasons that are very explainable but uh we're going to be dealing with pure Sky um we expect to be dealing with pure sky on the uh shutesbury road project and um um I think I it it would be good to have a better working relationship with pure Sky I don't know if Lawrence is going to be involved with that other project but it's still pure Sky it's still the same company and um I would like to dampen down on the changes that take place on the Fly thanks Alex um yeah I I mean obviously we're not we can't tie this into any other project going forward but having lots of these changes happening it feels like this is run away a little bit and to be honest Lawrence I'm a little disappointed in the level of detail that we received because clearly there's some quite a bit of confusion among the Commissioners about what's being asked and where it applies to and what the impacts are and what the contingencies are and that is something that we talked about last time for example um it sounded to me from some staff updates that uh a lot of the time benchmarks haven't been made so far and so what I'm thinking about is what if you don't get it done on time and what if we get into January and it's very dry now but what if it's not in two months and it doesn't look like in this email there's really any contingency for a stop work or um you know reapply some phasing or anything like that so it it it concerns me that approving this you know this email list of one through eight timing doesn't really cover us for um events that we are not expecting and that may destabilize is the site that it may not look like it's a problem now but it could in the future and we just really haven't covered that base with any of this so um as far as approving a minor administrative change based on the information in front of us right now um which I don't even know if the Commissioners have I don't think we can do that tonight um so at the very least I would suggest having some kind of more appropriate and comprehensive plan that does also cover some unexpected or un planned timeline um aspects um we still we we did about you know 15 minutes of discussion on this commissioner so I want to revisit the idea about whether or not um your interest in moving forward as a minor administrative change now that there's been some clarity from Lawrence about what exactly he's asking so it's not necessarily it's it's a flipping in the west vers East and also a doing the pads all at the same time and just one thing to keep in mind there is that there's vehicle traffic involved and that's not something we really talked about but it will be heavy equipment going in and out of the site uh Bruce I'm noting that there's a member of the public with a hand raised yeah thanks Alex I just want to remind you this was not in the published agenda the public was not notified that we're going to talk about this and I think the commission needs to be wary of conducting business on very visible projects without including it in the agenda yeah well I don't want that doesn't that doesn't mean there has to be a hearring but it means the name Hickory Ridge needs to be in the agenda that gets published so that at least people in the public know or have the opportunity to know that we're going to be talking about it and in this particular instance uh we're allowing a discussion go on which is fairly lengthly without notifying the public and I think that's wrong I mean I agree to some extent Alex but it would be sort of unfair to any smaller project that also has a Butters and interested parties to not apply that to them so in some ways this is pretty much our standard procedure unless we change every single time that we don't discuss other business that was received put like this is not a small project I know but some smaller projects might have just as invested of Butters I mean it it's relative so I we're not moving on this tonight but I would like to hear from the commission if you're willing to move forward with a minor Amendment tonight because that will change the instructions that we give to the project proponent so again show of hands who is willing to move forward with a minor Amendment versus a for a minor administrative change versus a formal Amendment the minor administrative change being the one that we can just vote on easily without any additional butter notifications order of New Order of conditions or any formal paperwork okay minor administrative change please raise your hand I see one hand up or who is undecided hand up okay so it looks like we have some decisiveness on um request for a formal Amendment okay Michael Linsky um Aon can you please allow Michael to talk hi Mike Linsky 167 shoot spry Road namers um I want to reiterate what's been said about not having this item on the agenda I'm only here because I'm really stubborn and I stayed here sitting through many many other sessions some of them were pretty interesting but only because I'm stubborn am I here to hear this because there was no mention on the agenda that this was going to take place and something that would be considered major by you guys I think is something that public at least some members of the public would be interested in so I think it's important to at least put the words Hickory Ridge in your agenda I think the most important thing that's come out here tonight is that pure Sky basically has been doing what it wants when it wants without permission Dave and Aaron supposedly have been supervising this project closely and yet you have these you have had trenches and conduit and concentrators put on both arrays that doesn't happen overnight it doesn't happen in one day that's been ongoing it's something that should be visible they said that they did not give pure Sky permission to do that pure Sky just did it you have a whole Western array now of posts that are set that no one gave them permission to do and yet now you're talking about amending the conditions well they've already amended the conditions themselves they just are running wild and doing what they feel like I think that's a major concern and this is a town project that's being closely supervised can you imagine what they're like when they're not closely supervised so I'm very concerned about the fact that all this work has been done supposedly that's supervised by the town but these guys have been doing this stuff without permission and it's big things um one last thing is the site looked great it hasn't rained appreciably in three months that's why it looks great um it's a major concern when it's wet there one last thing and it's a little off subject but I think it's important the emergency exit my understanding is that that's being built on a grass Road or packed grass or something think about it when would the emergency exit be used it would be used when Fort River is flooded why would the Fort River be flooded because there had been a period of very heavy rains or heavy snow melt you now have the emergency exit with fire trucks coming down it going across a soaking wet Hickory Ridge Grass Road I think that that's a major concern that you could get fire trucks just sinking down to the hubcaps in the mud so I think someone needs to think about what that road should look like because the only time it's going to be used is in those conditions I think that's all I have to say for tonight thank you thank you Michael okay um what I'm hearing from the commission is the fair fairly big deal so I just want to take one more show of hands to confirm the affirmative that everybody here you know minus Rachel perhaps vers last vote is interested in seeing a formal Amendment to the order of conditions um to update our order conditions to change the phasing criteria okay what was I'm confused okay please raise your hand please raise your hand if you support a formal amend mment to the order of conditions okay I see a majority so that means that's how we're going to be moving forward with this um is there anything else that we need to provide to the applicant eron tonight his hand up I just okay sorry there we go go ahead Lawrence I mean it doesn't really matter now he just going to sort of clarify things that the the panels changing was part of the original notice of intent it was a old design from several years ago with the fixed tilt um the most of the undulations uh are going to be dealt with by the minor grading that we've already got the permission for we're just talking about getting some longer posts which is what I needed for the uh for the majority of that Western array um and yeah it was just really to say that we're not proposing any new additional work or anything other than that it is just changing how we approach the existing work work that's already been reviewed and approved by the uh by the concom thanks Lauren Lawrence I guess I would just reiterate that there was a reason for the phasing to begin with which was to protect the site from impacts given extreme weather events or just un certain timelines um and I guess just in the future for any kind of requests for minor administrative changes um a more formal and informative and detailed package for us to review would probably be helpful in speeding up the process or giving enough information to the Commissioners to help us make our decision um I mean otherwise I want this to see this project move forward as quickly as possible I think we just need to be confident that we know what's going on out there and that it's protected in the way that the Conservation Commission needs it to be protected uh is there anything else we need to do to wrap this one up tonight Erin um I think uh I'll just need to debrief with Lawrence offline to determine sort of next steps um because I know there's other there's other pieces to this that would require an amendment and it seems like it would make more sense to do one one Amendment rather than um multiple because that's kind of there's obviously a process involved with that and so um yeah I I think that there's a little more discussion that needs to be had relative to when that process takes place what it will entail and what it will include okay um so I guess we'll have a bigger discussion later which will be on the agenda and available for the public to attend okay thank you Lawrence um I guess we'll be in touch uh all right is that it for tonight if there's any last public comment please raise your hand otherwise I think we're good Michael I still see your hand up did you have something additional or yeah okay we're good all right well looking for a motion to adjourn commers I motion to adjourn Second Jason on the motion Bruce on the second Rachel hi Jason Hi Alex I it is 9950 thank you Alex Bruce hi Andre hi and good night good night good night everyone thank you good night good night everybody good night