hello and welcome to the EM Conservation Commission uh date is May 88 2024 the time is 7:06 we have all members present tonight and emmer staff Aaron jock and Dave zc um first up on our agenda is um comments from me just want to give a plug to noo May we're in May um anything you can do to set aside your lawn or cut it less frequently is good for the the pollinators and beneficial insects so uh we all know about loss of uh birds and such but we're also in an insect apocalypse which is the term the New York Times gave it so um Zer SE Society is a really good um resource for that um but yeah anything you can do to just do less on the lawn in the month of May can go a long way all right that's all I have so I'm going to hand it over to Dave good evening everybody um just have four or five quick updates um let's see starting off it is budget season in the town and I usually you know just mention this to the commission just so you know that you know kind of where we are with staff and and um what is happening on at the Town manager level so um for May 1st Paul bamman Our Town manager did uh present his budget uh for review by the community and the council um it's available to you on the website uh I encourage you to take a look at it um really from the conservation department uh standpoint there there aren't any major changes there you know clearly no new positions there's not significant increases in um in uh operating um we'll see about a 4% uh increase across the board the one um change which really doesn't significantly affect us is that um at the urging of of uh and with the support of a number of department heads Paul bamman did decide to move sustainability um from conservation uh and and create its own Department um this is uh Stephanie cherell is our sustainability director and she is now a department of one and um historically sustainability for as long as we've had um a significant presence with sustainability the last couple of years in particular sustainability has been nestled or or uh nested within conservation and given the importance of that role in the town and the town council's goals um Paul had decided to move that out which is U makes all the sense in the world to me and others so you'll see that uh referenced in the FY 25 budget other than that um you know there we do have uh significant funding uh coming through CPA for Trails uh we have some Capital money for trails in the budget so take a look at the budget if you have any questions in two weeks um feel free the the council to ask me the council will or email me or or call the council will be uh reviewing the budget um in May and June for um you know review and um and approval uh sometime during June um what else is going on the open space and Recreation plan is moving um we are under some pressure with with this update to get it done because we' you know it makes us eligible for a number of Grants so we'd like to get it done by late June early July in time to submit it to the uh to the state unfortunately we're losing one of our planners who was working with Aaron and myself and others uh Rob wiill is a um a planner who who has gotten another job in another community and we congratulate him but it's kind of a bum bummer for us because we're losing some uh some people power and and bandwidth uh for that for that that effort but um Aaron has worked on a number of these and so have I through the years so we're gonna kind of pick up the slack together and work with Nate Malloy and Stephanie chorell and others to get that draft uh um finished and you will see a draft of that in the coming four to five weeks as my guest we do have some upcoming meetings on that Aon off the top of my head I don't have the dates on that but maybe you could send those to the commission when when we have those locked in um what else is going on just a quick update on the Fort River Farm the Community Gardens there I know a number of us have been down there um Alex and others um did identify a drainage issue that we're having with one of the adjacent properties uh there is an outflow pipe there from some uh likely from some French drains uh Foundation drains that is is emptying uh ultimately emptying down into our parking lot and uh working with our Building Commissioner and Aaron and myself uh we've come up with a short-term solution to that basically um some PVC pipe uh to get it off the parking lot and and get get water moving in a in a different direction and then we do have a plan for regrading the parking lot um the original parking lot there was uh supposed to have swailes along the edges of the parking lot um and that through went through the commission couple years ago now um so um we hope later this summer to do some regrading of the parking lot and install the um um the SES that were never installed in the first place so we think this will have a huge impact positive impact on parking uh not having kind of a squishy parking lot but also water will be redirected away from the gardens and not go um not compromise some of the uh Community Gardens so um we'll be doing that later this summer uh Hickory trails are moving along um You probably passed by there from time to time on West bomy Lane um our contractor Taylor Davis is doing great work um between and among the various storms we have so Sunshine is good these days for building trails and getting solar done um uh Aon can share some photos perhaps via email uh of those Trails on you know between this meeting and the weekend um but they are taking shape and Erin and I are out there multiple times a week making sure where turtle barriers are secure sediment uh barriers are secure and pure sky and our Consultants are contractors um Taylor Davis are doing um what they're supposed to be doing so the loop trail along West bomy Lane is coming together I think they're probably I'm gonna say they're 45% done with that 35 to 45% done with that and we're having them focus on that first so um so if we get some good weather here they can really move quickly if they get good dry weather let's see we're waiting on a couple of Grants um Ain and I mentioned we put in a dam in seaw wall grant for puffer Pond the Dyke in the dam there we're waiting on word on that I'm hoping to get that in June um if we do get that um it will be for design as we mentioned some weeks ago for design and permitting for Dam improvements and more specifically Dyke improvements up at buffer Pond and then we're also waiting on a um I believe it's a DCR or a DCS Trails grant that we put in to supplement some of the money we have for trails at at Hickory so um both of those are pretty big I think one is over $400,000 for puffers and the one for Hickory I think is on the order of 120 125,000 something like that with with some matching in there and then lastly um puffer's bond is picking up with the hot weather with the warm weather Brad and his his team of one um Anthony uh have been busy up at buffers Bond uh they had a good day there yesterday walking and talking to uh residents and users up there um and um and we are in the process of interviewing for Summer Staff so if you know anybody that wants to work on the trails work at buffer Pond they can apply for that position through the town website and we're we're starting interviews next week so we'll be hiring my guess budget budget permitting two to three um full or part-time people to work on the trails this summer so that's kind of a quick smattering of five or six things that we're working on in the department and between departments happy to take any quick questions if you have them thanks Dave Alex I see your hand up you and yeah Dave with regard to Stephanie and sustainability will her responsibility for one of the Community Gardens go with her or does that stay with you um no Stephanie will still um be the the head Le the chief liaison to the Community Gardens at Fort River it's a project she started and she has great personal and professional interest in sticking with that so yeah she'll continue to be the U the leoon and keep in mind um Stephanie will still report to me I oversee conservation planning Inspection Services facilities couple of other departments so she'll second question yeah go ahead no I'm all done second question with regards to the budget is there a chance that um Aaron will once again have an intern or some sort of assistance so that we can have our subcommittee meet more often um Aaron Aaron has historically had interns um I'm not sure whether we've paid those interns Aaron has been very resourceful in getting interns uh through through the UMass and through the high school um there's very little funding in our budget to pay interns so we do what we can when we can to try to find money around the edges but um again I think it it's probably more fruitful to seek internship uh students U looking for internships or co-ops thank you I think the short answer is we don't have any money to pay interns I don't think any department does in town okay um I see a hand up from the public so I'll just take this now but please um two minutes probably for you Dave Ken um Aon I don't have the ability to put them in hi Ken is this uh relevant to Dave's director report I I hope so I I'm sorry to to ask a question if it's not relevant this time please just don't answer it um I was wondering about I heard about trails in puffers Pond area and pal Lane and I was wondering if there's anything planned for the Casey Trail and the pond that's flooding here on uh in South am um so yes casy Trail uh KC Trail will be receiving some attention I just met with um Brad border week this morning excuse me this morning our land manager and um we are talking about some Rehabilitation of some of the bog bridging there I'm not sure which Pond you're talking about which Pond are you talking about in South amers there's there's a number of them uh the one that's uh just across Middle Street from the bog bridges that I think you're talking about uh between Middle Street and Bay Road uh you mean the beaver bonds there that are east of of U Middle they're Beaver ponds right now but they're they're actually natural ponds umh so I I guess the short answer is those ponds actually came up in my meeting this morning with with Brad um we are talking about those ponds we are working on kind of a plan for those ponds um they're I just I don't want to go to great detail tonight but happy to have this offline they're an incredible asset there but they're also um a bit of a worry uh for me and for the town given the volume of water that is backed up behind those dams um we have just gotten some Consulting work done with Beaver Solutions which is kind of the go-to uh Beaver nonlethal for the most part nonlethal solutions to dealing with managing beavers um I can't make any promises right now but we we do need to look at that situation um it's a bit concerning for me more than a bit concerning um it's flooding the Casey Trail right now it's almost impossible but you know about we need we we need to do some better Water Management there um there was a situation I believe it was last year in 2002 where a beaver dam gave way in belur toown and very significant infrastructure was was uh impacted I think it cost the the town of Bel toown between 800,000 and a million do to re redo a road that was washed out so just got to be mindful of the infrastructure down Downstream so bottom line we are looking at that I think I already have a quote from Beaver solutions for some of their approaches so so I appreciate you bringing that and please you know if you have observations you can always email me that or call me thank you thanks for keeping an eye out Ken um yeah and in general just for the public Brad has come on before and sort of welcomed um anybody's observations of trails because they do have a lot to keep track of so if you see trees down or um problems emailing I guess Brad or Dave or conservation department in general just to let them know what's going on out there okay um I think we can move on to minutes so we have 410 and 424 if there's no edits or comments just looking for a motion to approve them I move that we approve the minutes a second Alex on the motion Laura on the second Rachel thanks Andre hi Alex hi laora hi Jason Hi Bruce hi N I did I get everyone I'm having to scroll um okay um let's see Landy applications so this came in a little late but um it's timely it's public health related so I'm willing to move on it if every everyone else is okay with it so it's a it's a tick study um I think it's the University of Massachusetts in conjunction with um other organizations and on several um properties and I think it's a it's a three-year study erand but do we do we do this every year are we giving them license to do this not license approval to do this for the three-year period I just saw that it was a three-year study on their land use application yeah that's a great question um we've we've sort of gone around about how to do this and I think um the short answer is that we'd like to see like sort of an an an annual approach to the um land applications um just to make sure that um we know kind of on an annual basis what's going on on the land and sometimes when we issue like uh a multi-year um permit there's some confusion about when the expiration dates are and then um we lose communication with people so um okay that sounds good I did pull in um oh you sorry I just saw people appearing I didn't know what was going on um I hope they rejoin okay I don't know if they'll be able to um yeah so the um the study from my understanding is at multiple conservation areas um and they're looking to do tick collection for research study um one car parked at a trail head with two participants uh very sort of low impact um yeah did I mean 40 by 40 plots they're just going to walk the perimeters um and some markers I didn't have any comments on this does anyone have any questions or comments okay um I think we're I'm good to approve this if somebody would like to make a motion I'll make a motion to approve Michelle by second or on the motion Rachel on the second Rachel hi Andre hi Jason Hi Bruce hi Laura hi Alex hi and I'm and I okay are we at 7:30 now we have five minutes let's do um let's do emergency HT okay um so we got a request for emergency certification uh a resident contacted me about a f uh failed Foundation drain um in highp point um location where uh during some of the Heavy Rain events that we've had recently um their backyard flooded into their house and they had to call the fire department and have it pumped out um so they're basically Excavating out the old failed French drain and and just replacing it so um very simple in terms of um uh straw waddle installation to protect uh potential nearby Wetland it's a very very small sort of low-lying depression area um and uh pretty straightforward but they were just filing in an overabundance of caution to make sure that um they weren't doing anything wrong by putting in the French drain replacement thanks Aaron Andre could you actually facilitate this one I'm going to recuse so um basically all we need is a motion to ratify unless anybody has any concerns or questions I can make a motion to ratify also want to note that um I appreciate when community members come forth um with these issues for the Conservation Commission all right Laur on a motion we have a second hi I'm sorry uh Rachel uh Rachel with a second Laura with with a motion Rachel with a second Rachel hi Laura hi Bruce [Music] hi Jason hi Alex hi um and Michelle's uh recused from this is that correct y okay and I'm an i okay thanks Andre um all right what time is it three minutes all right a couple quick enforcement updates sure top two so um for 11 Trillium I'm happy to report that things are looking much much better um I went out um what day was it Monday I believe and um the the turf is fully installed the um I'm going to pull up pictures so you guys can see but the um backyard um the back slope is completely stabilized with biodegradable um uh um erosion control blankets and um it's all seated there's some additional straw that's been placed um and they are working they've contacted a um a surveyor to come out and place the 100 foot Stakes they're expecting that hopefully by our next meeting the stakes will be placed so we can do a site visit to go out and actually determine where the the 100 foot buffer boundary is located um but I mean I'll just uh and I have a quick question you said that what the back or the front I forget is now has biodegradable um fabric do both sides because both were covered before and one of them had to be replaced or both that's a great Point yeah so the front still has the um non-biodegradable the back is all biodegradable um so yeah that's one one good point um I will say like this this this is the front area on Trillium um and they do have it covered in for the most part with mulch wood chips um and this area I would say with the exception of the fact that um material was washing into the catch basins is otherwise outside of Conservation Commission jurisdiction so I will defer to you on whether you want them to pull that out I know that they had trouble locating the biodegradable mats initially and so they got whatever they could to start stabilization to get it done as quickly as they could um they were able to get the biodegradable mats for the back but this one had already been installed so they just left in place okay when I was out there um we did discuss with the land owner and the um contractors that it was going to be replaced so I like to see them make good on that okay W that looks very different and much more stable great yeah yeah this is the the slope so I'm extremely extremely happy with the results um that it's stable and seated and um I just think a huge amount of progress was made since the last safe visit so yeah happy to report good on that one um and keep you updated for the next meeting um based on when the markers are put in place so that we can inspect and sort of get a sense of where the 100 foot boundary is located on that site great and maybe also just a reminder about the front um landscape fabric yes y thank you okay any questions Commissioners all right um second enforcement yeah so the um the Wildflower Drive um um there it's been very challenging one communication with the landowner um the landowner thought that they had retained someone um and the person that they retained didn't want to take the job and declined the job um and then the landowner was insisting that they were still doing the work so I contacted the consultant that they thought had taken the job and they said no we declined the job already um so there was a little bit of a um circular communication going on there um also uh so I did Circle back with the land owner and say sir you know this person is not taking the job so you're going to need to find someone else and let me know when you're going to be filing a permit in the interim I did speak with Town Council they drafted a letter to send in hopes of kind of um urging this along a little faster so there is a draft letter I wanted to get your approval before I send that um or before the town attorney sends that to the the land owner um but yeah we're still you know working to there is a um there seems to be a lot of difficulty sort of communicating um understanding what needs to be done there's a a strong um uh I'll say linguistic barrier so we're we're are working with the land owner to try to help them understand what the kind of expectations are and um uh the deadlines and so forth so continue to make those efforts it's just been difficult to do with lots of other items going on well we have a letter in hand and I feel like that's a very clear communication so maybe just show of hands who's ready to have that letter sent how many like it's been over a month that we've been in communication with this um so yeah we have letter and we're just looking for commissioner input on whether or not you want to send that now or for hold off to some date certain um okay hands up send letter now okay I'm seeing a majority there so I think we're ready to have the you forward it or the um Town Council send that letter okay okay I have a question go ahead Alex explain Town Council oh I think that's what I the lawyer the town lawyer what town attorney Town attorney I call it okay not okay is what I mean sorry not Town not town councilors right special counsel as then a lawyer sorry well um that's my J we have several Town counselors I didn't I thought somehow the letter was coming from them oh okay well does it change your position on okay no just okay I will try and use preferred language okay I think we're ready to move on to our hearings okay hearings um General procedures each hearing has 20 dedicated minutes on the agenda it's five minutes from staff five minutes from the applicant five minutes of public comment or 2 minutes per person and 5 minutes from Commissioners all materials are required to be submitted by Wednesday the week prior to the meeting at close of business for all presenters please clearly state your name address of the project who are you representing as well as preferred pronouns same for members of the public um and let's see first up we have G to open this one um this is a public meeting and correct this public meeting is now called to order this meeting is being held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general bylaws of the Commonwealth an act relative to the protections of the wetlands is most recently amended in article 3.31 Wetlands protection under the town of the emoris general bylaws so this is a request for determination Keith Morris on behalf of New England railroad Central Railroad Company for verification of sensitive area locations along the New England Central Railroad RightWay uh railroad RightWay extending from Leverett to belter toown so I just want to thank Rachel and Bruce for going out there and doing an hour and a half of review on the railroad hope that was interesting at least but I we really appreciate um you doing that that hugely helpful we've been talking about this for a long time so um do one of you w to well Erin do you want to hand it over to them or I know that they were sort of um summarizing uh I just I sorry I didn't mean to um I just noticed that the uh person who got accidentally kicked off the the zoom call for the um earlier land use application is back on so I'm was just sending her an email letting her know her land use application was approved and I didn't want her to sit on the meeting all night waiting for that um so uh yes and Bruce was out on the on the um site visit as was Rachel and I'm going to yield to my comments to Bruce so that he can sort of State any um comments on the final plan set um it sounds like we're we're close to um being ready to approve that so just yield to Bruce okay so in the folder there was a map that I've created Rachel took pictures I took one or two but sometimes I don't know if Rachel's pictures are in the folder or not but um so we wrote with Keith Morris as you can see from the memo um you can if you have any questions about the bullet points I wrote we can try to answer them but that was our understanding of what we saw um there are pictures of Mr Morris re U repainting or adding a distance to the no spray parts that where he did a couple of times um I tried to show on the map that there are culs underneath the railroad track that the railroad is responsible for it might be that down the road we would want to take a look at those and see what condition they're in that's a question um then let's see I think the one major thing I think that is not in his um memo to us um is in part a way up there in the north part it looks like it's above what says L Lane but that's not precisely where it is but it the picture that I sent shows a very steep bank and at the bottom of the bank there is a stream and it's in a spray Zone as far as I remember that I recorded at the time um the issue is that yes it's 20 or 30 ft down the bank but on a as a horizontal coming off the track it's probably I don't know it's there's no way to know how far it is it's probably more than 10 feet horizontally from the track but it's right there and so I think we could ask the railroad Mr Morris to add that particular section I don't know how long but long enough to protect the stream that is maybe technically outside their 10 foot Zone but right there where where it will receive spray if the wind is blowing and such things um I guess the other two things have to do with the third bullet which has to do with notifying of Butters and I understand that there's there's a lot of a Butters and so they do put notices in the paper and stuff but there were two gardens that we observed right next to the track one in the north and one in the South and I do think that we could ask the railroad to at least identify those people and make sure they get notified personally when this spraying is going to happen because they're both in spray zones and then the last thing would be if they can't do that or it's just that isn't going to happen he did say and if you look at the pictures that are in the folder there are many pictures of standing water right next to the track in the spray zones and he said that when they go out to do the spraying if it's just scheduled at a certain time and there's been rain and there's standing water then then then they don't do it when they see the standing water okay well then he could also add the two gardens to that same protocol so those were the ideas I had I can talk with Aaron about the part B which is offline which is a project that I assume we're part of where the the sil fence is completely down but it's way far away but you can see it from the train from our little truck I know which s you're talking about yeah that's my report I I yield to Rachel if I left anything out thank you Bruce Rachel do you wanna thank you for um being controlling the map while we were going down the railroad it was really cool to see um a north south transect of ammer conservation lands to see them all tied together sequentially it was really cool um but we were moving quickly and so I was taking photos and Bruce was keeping us located on the map so we we could correlate our comments so thank you Bruce um other the other thing other things that um came out of the conversation with Keith is that their vegetation management is not just for movement of the train but also visibility they said they have a lot of people wandering people wandering into the tracks and just standing and sure enough while we were going down down the tracks someone was standing there completely oblivious that we were coming on yeah completely o up in tall vegetation they said that they also do cutting so what they can't spray they'll cut um and there are a number of invasives there we saw The Usual Suspects Autumn Olive Bittersweet a couple Jack Japanese not weed um and and yeah I agree I agree with it was really concerning to see vegetable gardens right up against the the railroad and think about you know impacts to those Butters um with with the spraying um and then there were areas that they hadn't you know that we identified to add which Keith added to the plans um that looked like they were starting to become hydric soils with um skunk cabbage and other Aquatic vegetation emerging and he he quickly got out and sprayed right on the spot on the tracks marking it as a no no spray Zone um to help facilitate the prview thanks Rachel um okay Keith do you wanna have five minutes to present or respond or sure yeah I mean my name is Keith Morris consultant for New England Central Railroad yeah I have no uh Bruce I have no problem marking that area I just kind of wish we made that decision out in the field but I have no problem going back out there and doing it thank you I know like Rachel had some questions was making notes that's why I said if you know if you want to change it let's decide it now so hopefully we can get it wrapped up tonight so that's no problem uh just maybe contact Aaron specifically where you where you were talking about and I can get out there and remark it but as far as the actual spraying which isn't part of the application but you had talked about Gardens and Lawns and other things uh I actually ride it's a it's a big tanker truck it's like 35 ft long it rides right on the high rails and it has a spray boom it's like 12 to 18 Ines off the ground with probably 20 nozzles which they can actually control each nozzle but I actually ride with the license applicator and for this railroad has probably been doing it for like over 25 years and I have the plan so it's very conservative when you come up to like someone's garden and we have places where they have blueberry bushes believe it or not out EAS there's actually dayc carees the fence is right up along the track so that's pretty conservative I mean this year if you give me the addresses of those two people I have no problem doing out but rather not make a habit of it because there's a lot of areas in different towns where you know things are going on right next to the track same thing with like corn fields and that kind of thing they're uh they're very conservative as far as spraying but I did make two changes as as Rachel said uh one is just south of strong road on the east side of the tracks we extended the no spray quite quite a bit I don't know the exact distance but I did Mark it out in the field as as Rachel said and then I think Southeast Street we extended it quite a bit to the north North uh North Northwest I believe up up the other side of Southeast Street and I didn't make the changes on the maps and I think I emailed them here in Monday morning but I do appreciate you guys coming out some Commissioners do some don't it's easier said than done planning with the railroad but they were uh very accommodating so so those that's what we're looking to get approved for tonight great thanks Keith uh commissioner comments um if there's any public comments please raise your hand I'll just keep an eye on the on the room Commissioners any comments Alex eth can you remind me what herbicide you spray uh it's part of the yearly operational plan what we do we have to notify there's a 45-day review period each three three departments in each town that we go through gets a uh a certified letter with a link to a website that has the yop the monitor notice and all the details but just to read them off here uh it's aquan op site Polaris and MSO xra which I think is like a drift agent but that's what they're spraying this year sometimes when I send in that letter they'll post it on their website so if there's any neighbors or whatever they can go to the link and actually see the whole it's like between the MSD of sheets and fact sheets and it's like some of them over 200 pages but has details on the spray programs and exactly the mixtures and so forth thank you okay so just to confirm Bruce had some comments about additional areas and Rachel had some comments about additional areas and they've been or will be marked in the field and updated on the no spray Maps is that correct is is there anything that's still in question about um revisions to the no spray areas so Michelle are you asking Keith or I can I can start with you I don't know who yeah yeah so I talked with Bruce earlier and I think that we can move to approve this um I just added so this is that we would issue confirming the resource area delineation within uh 10 F feet measured horizontally from the New England Central Railroad rail line based on the 53 ride along and the 56 map revision that the commission understands um that if additional standing water is observed within 10 ft of the rail line that those areas will not be sprayed and that the stream location with the steep slope between Bridge Street and State Street will not be sprayed where vegetable gardens are close to the tracks a Butters will be notified or areas will not be sprayed so I think that that might cover the Chang in addition to just not being sprayed can can it be like we're talking about a 50-year permit here right so is there a map that that's going to be delineated onto I'm sorry how many years Michelle is I thought this was a very longterm it's for the life of the BM BMP which is five years a regular RDA which is three years okay well irregardless um just because the map will probably get reused or referred to year after year I'm just I'm asking if there's some map that it's going to be um I will make that change such as I did with the other two areas that Rachel and Bruce wanted changes out in the field I made those changes on the maps and submitted a Monday I will change this area and get that to uh Aon tomorrow the the next day great thanks so much Keith y okay um I have no further questions um I just wish more people knew who had backyards facing a railroad that you know there're springing so they could relocate Gardens but not not in our purview um then commissioner is looking for a motion I moved to issue determination of applicability checking box 2A confirming that the resource delineation is accurate only within 10 ft uh measured horizontally from the New England Central Railroad rail line based on the 5324 r along and 5624 map revision the commission understands the commission understands that if additional standing water is observed within 10 ft of the rail line not noted on the updated plan those areas will not be sprayed stream location with Street steep location between Bridge Street and State Street will not be sprayed and where vegetable gardens are close to the tracks a Butters will be notified or areas will not be sprayed I second it Andre on the motion Bruce on the second Alex do you have a question before we question can we add language that was just agreed to that the map will be updated do you want to I think you have to amend the motion Andre would you be willing to amend the I'll amend the motion to add the fact that the map uh revision from 5624 will be revised again and submitted to um to the uh commission and I need another second on that second okay thank you Andre on the motion Bruce on the second Alex hi Rachel hi Andre hi Bruce hi Jason I Laura i n and I okay thanks for making the time to allow us to do that Keith no problem I just one recommendation I told a lot of commissions for comments on the uh on the determination I always recommend that they put the the delineations approved for the uh purpose of weed spray only because it's not an actual flag delineation out in the field it's just for the the weed spray program but some commissions do some don't okay okay noted thanks thank you very much appre your help all right good night you good night okay okay hearing number two there I'll let you bring anyone in that's here guess I'll Beth um okay this public hearing is called to order the hearing is being held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the Commonwealth and act relative to protection of the wetlands is most recently amended in article 3.31 Wetlands protection under the town of ammer General bylaws this is ammer Department of Public Works for the replacement of an existing Culvert at pot wine laye map 23A lot 9 on the Muddy Brook work associate with this project is proposed in Bank land under Waterway bordering vegetated Wetland bordering land subject to flooding and Riverfront okay um right hi Beth um hi Laura hi okay uh Erin do you w to take five on this sure so we had um a site visit in the fields on Tuesday uh that was attended by Rachel and Alex there was a number of technical questions so I want to make sure that um I allow plenty of time for for Beth um and uh Lara to respond to those um just sort of as a uh point of information I have not drafted orders of conditions for this so if the commission you know feels like we're ready to proceed on this this evening um I would just ask that we you know consider closing the public hearing only and that I would have to prepare an order of conditions for the next meeting if if that's the direction the board wants to go Zarin um okay Beth Or Laura yep hi I'm uh Beth Wilson I'm the environmental scientist with the Department of Public Works and I'm here with L up our consultant from fuss and O'Neal um yeah I I know you said five minutes but I do have a little presentation that just has information about the CT um do you mind if I share my screen sure but if we can just keep it to five that would still be good too I'll fly through it okay um are you looking for let's [Music] see do you have any trouble sharing Beth okay there we go all right so oops there we go okay I will be very quick um Culvert Replacements in ammer um we've got a number of failing Culvert in ammer it's hard to get them funded they're not at DPW the water and sewer Enterprise funds and chapter 90 money typically don't go to the drainage system um so in FY 24 DPW applied for a municipal vulnerability preparedness action grant for three covert locations we got the grant we collected um data and did um a design and permitting is was the what was under that uh Grant application and one of the locations was pot Wayne lean over Muddy Brook which is what this hearing is about I'll be second hearing is one of the second locations but this hearing is for that location um Muddy Brook is a little bit West of the recreation fields on pot wine Lane if people are trying to figure out where it is um so work completed so far at the site has been Wetland delineation survey Geotech study hydrologic hydraulic study um and a pering level design and DPW has applied for fy2 MVP action um um grant funding for the construction costs for this pot wi Lane over Muddy Brook um the goals of replacing these culverts are to improve flood resiliency the designs are um made to meet mots hydraulic and um scour design requirements and meet resilient mass action team um hydraulic design to the year 2070 10year storm and the design is also one of the goals of the design is to meet the Massachusetts stream Crossing standards which um require this band to be a 1.2 Bank F width and have an openness openness ratio of 0.82 pot Way Lane um currently there are two corrug in metal CTS um elliptical culverts the pipes are cracking and leaking which is resulting in sink holes between the road and the head walls you can see in this photo like the head walls are over here um and where this this drum is sitting is in a sinkhole um the head walls are collapsing especially the Upstream one um the current culverts con strict um the flow and are undersized for current and future storm events they don't allow for aquatic and terrestrial Wildlife passage um resource areas that were identified during the Wetland delineation or Bank land under um water bodies and waterways bordering vegetated Wetlands bordering land subject to flood flooding and Riverfront pot Way Lane is not located in a natural heritage mapped area um no vernal pools are mapped in that area and it's not an uh uh Muddy Brook is not an outstanding uh resource water that would yeah um so the design like I said is basically based on um the data that we collected the Geotech study and the h hydraulic and H hydrologic and hydraulic study that we did um it's a closed bottom the design that we put forward um is a closed bottom concrete box cover 9 and 1/2 ft wide by 6 feet high it'll be embedded 2 feet um in in accordance with the Massachusetts stream Crossing standards um the created streamed material is going to be natural rounded Stone and or river rock um with a gradation similar to the existing sediment in the area um bankful width within the box cover will be 6.7 feet there'll be these little terrestrial passage benches that'll be 1.4 feet on both sides um and I'll have an openness ratio of 1.05 um to to determine the bank fo width um measurements were taken 200 ft both upstream and downstream it's part of the hydrologic and hydraulic study which determined that the span needed to be at least 8.04 ft we've got 9.5 um and the Box Clover is going to sit on a 12-in crush Stone um pad and and that was one of the questions that came up during the site visit um some folks were suggesting that maybe it should be sitting on a concrete pad um but the Geotech we check the Geotech report's recommendation was for 12in crust Stone pad um and I guess we didn't maybe at the site visit make it clear that it is a a a box cover it's not open bottom box cover it's a four-sided box C concrete um so that's what the Geotech people recommended um and then here is a cross-section of it um here right here is the 12in stone pad and the actual covert is from here down to here so it's 6 feet and here's the 2in embeddedness um and I don't know if you can see over on the side over here it does actually talk about the material and it's basically what I had said natural rock was Riverstone with a gradiation and that's that we're cruising on through here's a little bit more of the design um this here so here is the Box Clover right here the two head walls here and here there's going to be Wing walls four Wing walls coming off which there aren't right now um there's going to be some um scour protection which is what this kind of looks like rock hatching there and and on both ends and that's according to maso requirements um little bit of grading on this side the this the water flows from the bottom of the photo up to the top water flows in that direction um what else can I say the limit of work is this LOD around here and the actual excavation tearing up of the road and everything is the Shaded box we are proposing some storm water improvements um in this diagram you can see two catch Basin locations currently there's one catch Basin that sits right on top of one of the current covert pipes and drains directly right into the covert pipe with no treatment um storm water that comes from the West in this drainage pipe right here currently goes into that catch Basin um and like I said is getting right into the river without any treatment so what we're proposing are two new catch basins which will sit outside of the box covert and they're going to be um deep sump catch basins with 4ot sumps to treat some of the sediment in the storm water and they'll they will be discharging from the wing walls which also gives them a few feet of being away from the actual stream channel so you know once that gets sort of rated there next to the stream channel there'll be a little bit of infiltration a little bit of treatment of that storm water I guess the only other thing I want to say about that is that this easterly Eastern one were not short if it's needed or not there's a drainage pipe that currently you can see going into the current catch Basin but it's dry and there's an old sewer line design drawing that shows that that um drainage line may have been removed so we're not going to know if we need that Easter one until we actually excavate down and see what's going on with that drainage line um if it doesn't exist or if it's been cut or whatever then we won't be putting in that second catch Basin all right thanks Seth I want to just make sure we have enough time for um commissioner questions and you can how are we doing on yeah um I guess the only other thing is the dewatering you guys are probably interested in that and resource area protection um we can just go right to the diagram we will have erosion control that's what this is here and there and there um we're going to have a um construction entrance pads for siment for collecting siment from the trucks and we'll have these two staging areas where the um uh stockpiled soil would go and equipment and stuff um and then for dewatering we've got Coffer dams that are going to go in on both ends and we have 24inch bypass piping that we're going to use to get to have the stream be able to continue to flow through um and then we have a construction a dewatering um settling Basin because I you know I think there's going to be some water basically getting in there even with the Coffer dams so we'll have p a pumping some kind of a pump system most likely then be using this Basin um and I could give you the details on that Basin if you're interested in it and so that's about it I'm that's good that was quick I'm good thanks okay um if there's any public comment please uh raise your hand and I'll keep an eye in the room I'm going to go to commissioner questions and you know thanks for the site visits those were out there Alex go ahead yeah Beth thank you for the clarification that it's a four-sided box Culvert when we were in the field there wasn't you know any time to look at your drawings before that um and just for Commissioners sake um we I thought it was a three-sided box covert which is why the concrete pad came up but she's explained that that's not necessary because it's foursided the other comment was whether or not um there's there the runoff from the street in the storm water can be such that sand from the road Winter salting sanding does not go into the stream and maybe Beth could comment on that um yeah so this is the pot wine location so I know we had talked about that at Middle Street and and it you know same situation here except in this situation we've got we're going to have these catch basins right here that do have the Deep sump treatment um but yeah I think you know sheet flow is is going to come from the center of the road um and then it it would be cheat flowing in that D this is going to be a little higher elevation behind the catch basins so water would be heading right into either one or both of the catch basins if we end up with two of them thanks does that answer your question I think so okay Jason thank you um is there going to be I want to make sure that I don't see in any details and I might have just missed it that there's some sort of velocity dissipation or scour pad on the end of that 24 4 in bypass pipe so that as the water's coming out we're not having additional scour in the in the string bed there I so you're talking about during during construction right so during when when we've got the 24 inch um bypass pipe correct yeah um we can certainly um discuss that with the contractor um and I want to make sure that they're comfortable uh with how do that with the bypass pipe um and that could be something that we add um but thinking about that that's scour protection that would need to be removed afterwards and it would be a it would be a temporary impact yeah that's a good comment though I've heard of um like certain types of like plastic sheeting to be used at the outlet points of the pipe rather than putting in um uh Stone like a almost like a um material that could be laid in the Stream bed so that the stream bed itself doesn't get washed out yeah that's called a turbidity curp curtain um but typically those are on deeper deeper streams I don't think it's turbidity Curt I don't think that's the appropriate thing to use in this situation you're gonna be I mean you're GNA either be putting rock down potentially a like a vis Queen sheeting might work but honestly that it I wouldn't recommend that either because if you have a discharge pump coming out on Vis Queen that's just going to speed the water up and increase its erosive potential you need to have velocity dissipation you need to have Rock in there or um you know some sort of portable temporary concrete not a weird structure but something to catch the water slow it down slowly release it like a level spread or something like that okay yeah I mean in regards to additional temporary impacts that that Portable Concrete structure you just mentioned Jason might be more easy to remove this isn't my wheelhouse but um just to not have things piling up in terms of impacts the river but um yeah let's let's add that to our list of questions and um additional information um Andre oh sorry I had one other question oh yeah go ahead what what is the anticipated time frame for this project 2025 yeah the length of time for the project from start to finish oh I think Laura weren't we saying like three weeks no um eight weeks so we're anticipating that this happens at the same time um as the next Culver that we'll be discussing the next public hearing um and hoping that the contractor can be this one and the same and that they're thinking about these projects and and purchasing products together to save a little bit of cost um and working one after another but not at the same time because they'll be road closure yeah okay I'm just asking regardless of or regarding the time of year as well um because I saw that the it's designed for a 2-year 24hour storm which is like three inches but we can get some big storms and uh you know depending on the time of year so just curious about that well we are planning to do it during low flow or you know that's that's required so we are thinking July August um of 2025 okay and then sorry back to my uh first point about the Scout protection on the discharge end of the pipe it appears that the discharge pipe is on the downstream side of the Coffer dam is that correct and then will that pipe be elevated or is the Cofer dam being built around the pipe the Coffer Dam will be built around the pipe okay thank you we also thinking about velocity dissipation we could reuse the stones that will be scour protection like permanent ones we could reuse those for velocity dissipation great um Andre yeah a simple question uh just for uh comparison purposes I think you the opening of the uh new um of the new Culvert is going to be 8.6 or something like that what is the opening of the current two uh CTS that are there so there oh sorry I didn't okay they're currently uh 58 inch by 33 inch um is what their original sizes were our surveyor had a hard time uh because they are depressed and crushed thank you and uh so that's all right 58 Ines so uh each yes right okay and the uh and what it's going to be replaced with is a single one is that correct that's what it's right yes a 9 9.5 by4 opening thanks yep okay um I see an attendee with their hand up I'm going to allow them to talk go ahead um good evening um am I can you hear me we can hear you okay so um I had two questions um one was a fairly simple one about um for each of the culverts um what was the approximate time for road closure I mean a lot of the the work can be done without closing the road but the question is the when the the road actually has to be closed how much how much many weeks days I yeah we're going to try and limit limit it to um you know I wouldn't want to go more than like four days or so for and and it may be spread apart we may you know close for a day to do something and then open it again but it'll be a real effort to to keep the roads open when they can be okay um for the call just we just need you to state your name and address for the minutes oh okay sorry about that Vincent oconor 175 Summer Street ammer great thanks and and then the question then the other question I have is in terms of um the the actual the actual rainfall um um what OB hopefully you're not using the 1970s data which obviously not going to apply but what how do you correct um given I I don't think that the there's been like some kind of U new data issued for this area having a very difficult time hearing the speaker um I don't mean to interrupt but I don't know if there's any way you could speak a little louder Just I can do that can you hear me better yes okay so the other question is about the um the the rainfall forecasting yeah yeah the rainfall forecast because obviously the the 1970s official data is way is not certainly anything you would want to use if you're you know trying to uh anticipate the future much less even deal with the present right go ahead Laura I think you can yes I can speak to that um so this is funded through an MVP Grant which is through the Massachusetts uh Commonwealth and we are required actually to be using resilient Massachusetts action tools so that is um climate climate predictive tools developed by Cornell University um and so it inflates the rainfall volumes uh from today and it inflates them for predictive for the future and so we're using 2070 um events and while it was designed for the 2070 10-year event um we have done predictive modeling that shows the road will be um will be dry in the 2070 100-year event okay and how much and how much rainfall is what is the predicted rainfall amount as opposed you know the the present the the present and and the 2070 rainfall um amount sure so for actual numbers yes so for the 100-year storm um the present day is 7.83 Ines um and the future rainfall depth would be 11 inches okay thanks for having those numbers handy I know I was like glad that's in the report okay thank you Vincent um hopefully you got you're welcome thank you looking for good one um okay so I don't see any more hands up so it I think the only additional item we had was Jason's question regarding the velocity dissipation and sort of the plan for that um okay so that's one thing Alex go ahead no I made a request to make sure that uh sand doesn't come off the road into the stream and what Beth gave me was kind of a maybe answer if if we have uh two um catch basins but I would I would the existing drain is right over the stream which puts all the sand from the road into the stream and would like to see the design positively made to stop sand from the road going into the Stream So that that was a request okay also for commissioner information when we were there I showed Beth a 4 four that was entangled in the branches that was probably I didn't measure it but it was probably 6 or S feet above the water so there has been very high water there um and that's probably because the culverts are there's a a wire a beaver deceiver type wire in front of the culverts which were kind of plugged up with vegetation and maybe the culverts weren't fully functioning but um a lot of water goes through in a big storm thanks Alex Rachel thanks yeah I had a question about um the catch Jason's as a siment removal the Deep sump and I wondered if you guys might consider a hydrodynamic separator such as like a stormceptor system that may be a little bit um better at separating out some of those sediments materials um and then if not also if any sort of um any sort of uh drip um Stone um um border on the edge of the road might be another way to capture any of that sediment that may not be going into catch basement but might be running off the side of the road that could be cleaned out periodically um to help with that prevent that material getting into the river thanks Rachel um so I'm hearing that we have some maybe more significant comments that can be addressed tonight so um in regards since we don't have an order of conditions drafted anyway I going to suggest that we continue the public hearing and um this discussion and hopefully um DPW and bus onil can come back um to address some of these comments yeah okay um all right Commissioners unless you have any final suggestions um that they can use prior to our next meeting I'm looking for a motion to continue the public hearing for pot wine Lane culbert replacement EP number 089 d736 to 52224 at 7:30 so moved second all right Alex on the motion Laura on the second Andre hi Jason Hi Bruce hi Laura hi am I missing somebody Rachel hi did I get you Alex no I okay not an i okay sorry it's just such a long list tonight okay thank you laara thank you Beth all right we'll see you on May 22nd well they're stay oh right I'm sorry okay welcome back to our next public hearing which is called to order this hearing is being held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the Commonwealth an act relative to the protection of the wetlands as most recently amended in article 3.31 wetlands prote under the town of ammer General bylaws and this is a notice of intent for ammer Department of Public Works for the replacement of an existing culbert and middle street map 26b lot 6 on a tributary of the plum Brook work associated with this project is proposed in Bank land under Waterway bordering vegetation and liver front Okay so hopefully we can sort of abbreviate this one with our design background okay y I don't have to I I have a whole one for this but we don't have to even really look at it one question did you get thing anything from natural heritage I didn't see anything Ain do you w to no okay she's shaking her head no I have not gotten anything yet okay so that's pending yeah okay I mean we submitted it the day that we submitted to you guys so that was you know two weeks ago okay but we can check that right yeah sometimes if we nudge them they'll respond faster okay um yep so this one is uh very similar and in all of where it got its funding from it's just a different location Middle Street um over a tributary to the plum Brook so sort of the southern end of Middle Street right near Plum Springs Conservation Area if you guys are familiar with that that's where this location is um oh I forgot to change my pictures um but Middle Street um similar to to pot wine Lane um has a collapsing Downstream head wall um and and definitely constricts the flow considering it's a it just has one current pipe right now that is I think 18 inch um possibly 24 in but just one 24 in yeah one pipe so that it's it definitely constricts flow um for storm events current and future and does not allow um Aquatic and terrestrial Wildlife Resource area the only difference um is between pot wine is there's no bordering land subject to flooding um but there is natural heritage mapping at the Middle Street location um Culver design very similar uh the height is five and a half um feet versus at potline it was it was six a lot of the design for the height and the size of this does have to do with where where the sewer line is um I think with potland lne we had said that the sewer line is actually going to sit above the um New Culvert but at Mill Street the uh Culvert will sit yeah the sewer the sewer line is going to be underneath the um cover Middle Street so because of those sewer lines the height did get affected um but basically very much the same bang full width of 7 .7 within the covert um pass test terrestrial benches of 0.9 feet openness ratio is 0.95 um bankful measurements with the H&H study uh showed that it should be at least 9.24 have a span of 9.24 we've got 9.5 um and it's sitting on a 12 in crush Stone pad similar to pot wine um so really not any differences here except the heights but everything else the river material will be the same structure will basically be the same um we've got um a little bit different of a design here the scouring area is a little bit bigger the constructed scour pads on either end are going to be a little bit bigger we we've got some um we've got this little Stone leak off here and we've got the um Turf reinforcement matting which I think Laura can talk about the purpose of those too but those are things that were not at pot wine that are included in this design in terms of storm water um at this site I think I have a picture of it I do this is a storm water pipe that currently comes out on the Upstream side of the current CT on the North Bank um and discharges storm water that that that comes all the way down Middle Street there's a there's a sale on the side of Middle Street for quite a ways that comes out here and also there's catch basins on um South Orchard Road I think it's called or South Orchard Drive that drained to this storm water outfall so it gets quite a bit of flow um so for storm water improvements for this project we're cutting this pipe off like 15 or so feet um to the north and putting in let's go back here putting in a new um drainage manhole so that we have access um for cleaning out that drainage line and then HTP piping and then a um a flared end again away from the bank um to to dissipate the energy of the flow um and improve so there's less erosion just improve that basic storm water outfall situation and again I have we have details on that if people want to see them I have the plans and we can look at the details if we want um resource area protection and dewatering is the same as potline he basically we got the same erosion control um here's our dewatering settling Basin Coffer dams same 24 inch ADP bypass piping yep thanks okay commissioner comments on this one and if there's any public comments please raise your hand Jason I would just copy my same comments from the last one regarding ing Scout protection yep thanks Jason Alex similar Pro comment as before and we talked to Beth in the field um where this Culver's going in there is a long downhill on Middle Street coming from the North and then there's a long downhill coming from Bay Road and the road is the head wall is probably three ft below the the top of the head wall is probably 3 feet below the road and the road is engineered so so that all that water coming down the road goes directly into the brook including all the sand that's put on in the wintertime and so I asked Beth if this could be designed to prevent sand from going into the stream from the road just so it's the same comment as in the other Culvert and she thought that that might be uh something that they could work into the design yeah laara maybe can you comment on the um so the little Stone leak off and that Stu yeah that's very similar to what um I can't remember I think Rachel commented on the last one about having some sort of stone um at the road so on the on this picture it's the southern side on the left uh there is an existing drainage drainage sewer pipe coming into the into the into the creek but on the North there's not so trying to memorialize that flow rate so it's not just rushing into um and like eroding away at the bank um so that's kind of the purpose of that of that leakoff on the northern part on the right um so I think that would help with Sand Filtration in the in the winter and but again that's that's RI wrapped so I'm not sure how the commission feels about adding that it would certainly help with slowing down and capturing sand prior to to entering we could absolutely add it if that's something that you're interested in doing talk um can I respond yes sure um so you're talking about the storm runoff pipe uh so there is no yes so there is no pipe to the north um there is no sewer coming or sorry pipe coming in to the creek from the north it's just country drainage and so putting that leak off putting that that RI WP Stone there it's kind of memorializing something so it doesn't cause erosion into the I thought that I thought that pipe on the east on the up Upstream side Northern north side of the stream was storm water anyways that's coming from the south um or it's com that's the north this is the South coming from the north thank you so the area coming from the north has the has this the manhole as it does today it doesn't have a manhole but it's coming straight into the creek and then the area from the south doesn't have anything today um and so putting in some best practices adding the adding the leak off yeah so what I was commenting on is sheet water from the street and there's a I'm not sure that it I mean like the storm today the streets were just full and um a lot of fast moving water and I was wanted to make sure that we're not directing that water from the street into the stream uh with all the sand with it that's different than managing the storm water pipe and it's discharge um the the this Culvert would be the low point in the road for hundreds of yards on either side um and I just wanted to put frankly put a stop to the sand that DPW puts on the road in the winter time winding up in the Stream that's a that's a form of fill then also I think aon's gonna she's got her hand up but I think she's going to talk about scour uh issues on the southern on the discharge side of the on the west side of the street yeah com your comment about um rip wrap uh doesn't address water from the street there's that's the picture right there but that doesn't address water from the street and sand okay so that was a comment for both of these projects is addressing the sheet flow and the sand that could get in there um and what have I done yeah um eron why you go ahead yeah I was just um on a on a recent project where we did a uh a stream restoration a very similar CT um uh restoration project stream restoration project where there was a 90 degree Bend right at the outlet of the um of the pipe um where the stream came under the the road where it makes that 90 degree bend it it started carving out the right of way and we ended up having to issue an emergency certification to um I'm just going to draw in here for a second the water basically came out and then just circles right back and starts carving away at this location um and it uh it did this on a project recently and we just were observing while we were out there that this was already happening and there was there was um whirlpools happening in the um in this this little um Basin here so it was just a a comment that uh it's a concern learn that you know when they get in there and they start working that um there there could potentially be issues with that so just something to consider that we might want to um add additional armoring um in that area just in case that happens thanks sarin Jason yeah I I wanted to go back to Alex's comment and then these Stone leak offs um I think there was a little bit of confusion La was mentioning this I was a little confused the storm water pipe and and the leak offs we were talking about it seems like two of those um I would to make sure those Stone leak offs they're designed to the top portion of them right next to the road is Rip wrap correct yes and then where it says there's the turf reinforcement matting that's going to be the the trm with it's GNA be SE it over top of the trm yes and then that is just designed to effectively slow water down as it comes off of the road so you're designing those cuts essentially in the road filling them with rip wrap and they slowly will uh act they'll act as Weir to slowly allow water to flow down that vegetated channel they're going to be channelized as well they're not going to be they're not channel it's just the the trm is there to prevent erosion prevent scour later on um but the idea is for it to be flat no okay all right okay so that would that would go potentially once the water hits that rip W it will slow down and potentially drop out some of that sand yeah and some of that vegetation might pull some of that sand out of the water as well as it slows down um you know a potential is their potential on this project and on pot wine to do like um uh like wears going down a series of like Drop wears instead of drop we we could do um I just don't know if it's the right place to put it but you could do coir logs you know or vegetated soil lifts down I would do coogs because they're going to they'll degrade eventually yeah more of stone like plunge pools this is a very small area I would say that there's probably not enough space to do punch pools here um okay I would think I mean to me this this probably a good solution but uh just you know I just wanted to clarify that I was little confused talking about the pipe I know I I'm sorry I got North and South confused and boy that took everyone from Wrong Turn um but yeah if this is acceptable we could propose these leak offs and turf reinforcement matting with vegetation underneath them and through them um for both both projects and it would be an inexpensive easy to maintain um something that DPW could carry on with and make sure it's working appropriately and it would help with sand all right thank you okay so that was another one for the list um Alex maybe we can just coming back from am I on mute no no I'm just coming back I I didn't hear any solutions suggested and uh um I don't I just wanted to throw out the idea of a burm or a curb along over the Culvert to direct water from the road to the vegetated sideline so that it doesn't go I'm looking for some suggestions uh maybe Rachel has one or Beth or or Laura and and we don't need to figure this out all tonight because we're going to continue this so I think maybe because we're getting on in the time posing these having our list that we can make sure we communicate with and then revisiting these at the next meeting is probably the best way forward at this point yeah all du respect the uh we just had a discussion about solutions for the storm water pipe I'm just asking for word or to on what's on their mind about the issue I've raised okay Laura do you have any off thee cuup ideas on that one sure I think if we curb it we may see more ponding on the road so we want to avoid that um I could absolutely add uh what we would call leak offs like what we're calling right now but it's just you know it's RI wrap along the road maybe the whole entire way around the Culvert and then we just make sure that we have some trm so it's Turf reinforcement matting and it's vegetated and that slips down to um to the wing wall and around and that way it catches the sand and it's also vegetated so it's got a small bit of it's not all rocked and armored we can include some vegetation yeah that's that sand is is a form of fill so go ahead okay um Rachel go ahead yeah no I I think um Laura something like that um sounds like something that I mean that's a standard thing in the Massachusetts storm water standards too as a stone dihr kind of what you described that can be cleaned out along the length that could be acceptable um had one other common observation on site you know we do have the beaver beaver activity up up upstream and um the town has done a great job of installing some some fever deceivers and other things to help manage them while they're managing the water but we did notice that the the stream is very very braided um looks like it's moving around a lot and Meandering a lot and um I talked with um Beth Alex and Aon on site just concerned about the th EG underneath the covert with that uh Sandy kind of material um and with something with a stream that wants to meander and move around that there may be challenges managing that material long term and as you know we're it's the town and and you guys are good Engineers we're going to be keeping an eye on it and and sort of addressing things in the field but just noting that this might be a challenging one to manage that material that's in the covert and as Aaron mentioned the um the right hand turn creating an Eddy that's going to be tending to scour and um change change the morality of that system is going to be a little bit challenging I think okay um I will say that we are doing uh scour counter measures through the CT as well as part of the substrate um which will be helpful for that thinking about like you've got at least one the first foot to 18 inches that'll be pretty well armored and then the stream substrate that you put in above it can Meander and move around um as is happening with the is it upstream or Downstream that you were seeing the braided Channel Upstream Upstream okay okay is that because of the Dam Upstream it's mostly because of I think of because of the Beaver activity in the end you know the beaver activity really did hold water back between uh Middle Street all the way back to that giant beaver Jam that's back there and so then almost affected the Ste the stream channel by by holding water back like that multiple times so then you have kind of this this not as much of a a form real form channel it's actually coming back now that we put put the beaver now that conservation put the beaver deceiver in and you're getting sort of a constant flow within a channel it seems to be uh forming it again and certainly Downstream there's a very um formed Channel good thoughts um thanks Rachel okay um there were a lot of items so I think we've touched on all of them I've been watching you take notes Laura is there anything you need clarification on or maybe you could check in with Aaron and me and just um make sure we got everything covered to so we can address it at the next meeting yep does that sound like a plan to everybody okay yes y um great thank you um in that case we're looking to a motion to continue this one and I move that we condition I don't have the language in front of me so move to continue the public hearing for Middle Street Culvert replacement DP number 08907 7 to 52224 at 7:35 so moved second okay so that was Alex on the motion Jason on the second Rachel hi Alex hi Jason Hi Bruce hi Andre hi Laura hi and I'm and I want thank want to thank Beth for a very informative site visit she was terrific you're welcome thanks laa we'll see you next time thanks all right night thank you night all right okay so next up we have um notice of intent for Karen environmental Consulting LLC on behalf of LLS borx LLC and WD coals Incorporated for the construction of a battery storage system associated Access Road improvements and storm water management within the buffer zone to bordering vegetated Wetlands on M Road Route the 63 mat 2A lot 18 so so they're continuing to work on um some plan updates so this is going to be continued um it' be my preference just to move to continue this given that we have a lot more to address on our agenda tonight I move that we continue the public hearing for the monu Road battery storage project DB number 89-73 1 to 61224 7:30 pm second Alex on the motion Jason on the second Rachel obain Bruce hi Jason Hi Andre hi Alex hi Laura I'm stain I'm and I okay um all right next up hearing number five we have birkar Design Group and no I on behalf of Emily Dickinson museum for the construction of a historic Carriage House and Associated site work in the buffer zone to bordering vegetate Wetlands at 2114 Main Street map 14b lot 26 okay and we have some folks here for that tonight Aron are you bringing people in okay um um all right so we had a pretty long discussion last meeting and there's been some revisions to the plan plan aspects um Aon do you want to give us five minute update sure so after the last call I met with Chris um and gave him some recommendations in terms of plan adjustments um and so he he Incorporated those plan adjustments and um provided a a plan um revision back to me I do feel that he has um addressed the Lion Share of the commission's comments uh with the um proposal and also reflective of a 4 to one mitigation rate on the site um for the for the mitigation area so I think that um it's pretty well um addressing a lot of the commission's comments and um I'll otherwise yield my time to Chris to sort of present what his plan adjustments were thanks aarin welcome Chris um welcome Jane Chris do you want to give us an update sure we'll pull the plan up here um as Aaron mentioned um we've updated the plans um to sort of clarify and specify the various um mitigation measures based on the comments that we've gathered through a couple of site visits and uh meetings with the commission um and these are primarily reflected on this new sheet c301 that was included um in a submission that we made last week that I think made the packets um and so really the intent here was to ensure you know not just for the commission's benefit but this will also be beneficial for the contractor eventually doing the work to um coherently summarize um all of the mitigation and restoration work that is proposed in the project um and those are uh and so in sorry I'm trying to figure out to zoom here um and so we have um pulled this sheet together there are sort of um three really oh actually Four distinct areas um here uh which identify um this portion of the site which is generally the the currently heavily vegetated a little bit more naturalized area split between um actual Wetland proper and inner buffer area with these two hatches which we're showing as mitigation area um which is primarily focused on the invasive species that we've been discussing as well as the native plantings that we're putting in um we've got a second area which we're referring to as restoration area which is the area that is currently you know lawn in air quotes but is in reality fairly bare um uh and also includes a lot of the mature uh Japanese tree lilac that we are looking at and are concerned with and then um the last area is um additional 50ft Wetland buffer that is not slated for specific restoration area and is really the the core of the actual project site which does have a few relevant ele elements to it um and the the summary is really in this set of notes here where we go through nine points um of this mitigation restoration work a couple of the ones at the bottom are really just blanket requirements um um but to to go through them as briefly as I can um and and just a summary of everything that we're at here U number one is really you know probably the most significant one is removal of the Japanese tree lilac which is identified as a non-native species that's taking over um this resource area not officially invasive but it's essentially acting as an invasive species in this uh site um and so uh the strategy there is to cut the mature trees museums agreed that we'll cut all of the mature Japanese tree lilac that is within the 50ft buffer um those would be cut and treated with an herbicide to make sure they don't grow back additional cutting of suckers as they come up um and treating of those to keep those down um and as you recall that that's what we really think is sort of raining seeds um into the Wetland and inner buffer areas um and based on the research the this tree doesn't spread vegetatively it doesn't really creep but uh if if seeds make it um drop into naturalized areas they are able to take over which is what we're seeing in there um Additionally the smaller uh saplings uh and and uh just sprouting trees would be removed primarily manually to the extent that that's feasible um some of those larger saplings are probably um uh best to be cut and treated because they're unlikely to actually be able to be pulled uh in a couple of cases um and we are stating a preference for or cut stem and dabbing or painting and herbicide on those plants um however you know in con uh conversation with Aaron uh it sounds like it's it's been the experience of the commission with certain species um that the the license applicator comes through and says well that the um the direct application of the herbicide is not always the best case and I think Michelle when you were out there you had mentioned that it may be necessary to to be spraying just because of the extent of the tree lilac so we're leaving that open as a possibility and as I'll mention down below specifying um specifically an herbicide that's approved for aquatic ecosystems and having a preference for not spraying but using that if if it is um uh deemed the most likely to be successful in targeting the species um so number two is removal of other invasive species um at the very least I've observed Bittersweet that's starting to come up possibly a little honeysuckle I'm not great at plant ID um but uh you know the Japanese tree lilac is what we're most concerned with because that's really kind of colonized out there um but we will also um be targeting um other invasive species as encountered and specifically the mitigation method there defers to um published recommendations from aate ideally Massachusetts although in my experience we found better uh we found any information more readily in in a couple of the neighboring states um and using that as the basis of guideline um really for any invasive species are encountered as we move along um three is the follow-up work um so we are committing to two subsequent years of additional removal I think I I used the word maintenance and there was some exception taken to that that that we're really looking at uh removing um additional species that are popping up which was the intent um when we were making those comments earlier um essentially those same procedures that are listed for the tree lilac and the invasive species to go back in in year two and year three um to uh do that work again to ensure we really Tamp that down and and give the chance for the native plants to move in um item four is the delineation of mitigation restoration areas and these are actually um shown we we have found what we think is actually a really good um uh way to do this in a way that's going to be acceptable to the museum so I've highlighted uh seven I think it's seven Lo maybe six locations that I'll point out here where we are going to have driven rebar with uh with permanent caps attached to them that end up flush to grade um and for anyone who reviewed the plan you may have been confused about the citation of this detail um which oh I didn't even put the correct plan set in here um I had a computer crash just as I was finishing this plan set up um and was um didn't notice that the detail had been dropped in the signed plan that I sent Aaron which perhaps she can bring up in a minute if we want to see what those look like um we should have detail of those but uh We've I found a product that is actually for survey markers uh that fit uh snugly and permanently onto the end of a piece of rebar it's an aluminum disc and we can order them at reasonable cost and actually custom engrave them with language so we can specifically identify this as a restoration area and note No Leaf blowing which is the key concern um or other ground disturb an and we can imprint that text directly on those medallions uh which would then be lined on this area here so that as maintenance is coming through um those will be flush with the surface if they're Leaf blowing they're going to uncover them and it's going to immediately tell them that they should not be Leaf blowing Beyond this area um so felt that that was a a nice way to do it in a way that will be very non-descript and you know doesn't conflict with some of the Museum's other goals for this area um we've added notes about preserv of the trout lily soils um essentially asking the contractor to scoop up uh that upper portion of the top soil and segregate that from the other um excavation that's occurring um during the sewer work and then to replace that on the top and to gently um uh uh press that back down into place uh when it's done to try to preserve as much uh of the trout lily that's in the path of that work as possible I will note that being out there um and I took I think it may have been Bruce's suggestion or Alex's suggestion I'm not sure um to go and flag that I've actually gone and put Flags around that area so that a couple months down the road when the L lilies are not present anymore um I've got written on there uh on those flags where those are so we'll be able to identify that um but also walking out there that colony is more extensive than we even realized the first day we're out there there's a ton of it out there um so I think there's going to be no doubt that that's going to make a a strong comeback when we're all done here um placement trees uh in light of the fact that the Japanese tree lilac which well it's acting as native are still um uh you know large shade not large but but significant shade trees in this area uh will be coming down uh We've increased the number of uh native trees that we're going to replace um from a list of either twoip black walnut or white oak um we have identified three areas in this restoration area where a lot of those u tree L laac are going to come down as well as the originally proposed location um here so that's four total trees we've left a little bit of Wiggler room in the notes so that um uh Jane uh and the contractor can work out areas that won't disturb anything else that may not be picked up on this survey um and can make sure that the layout is historically appropriate and works with the site but um the as per the notes they would all be required to be in the buffer and the intention is to have three of them in this restoration area which is uh now going to lose um some trees uh and tree cover there and then there's the native shrub planting we had originally proposed low Bush blueberry as part of our site visit it was identified that that perhaps ver viburnum uh would be a better species that would end up growing in more significantly um and and which should be well suited to this area um so these dark circles of which there are eight are spread out in the areas where we are probably going to lose a lot of vegetation when we take out the Japanese pre lilac um to fill those in with the more significant scrubs and we've identified uh three um uh Native varieties of that um to choose from depending on availability or may do a mix of them to to mix them together uh and then two other Provisions was with the herbicide um again stating that the herbicide is only for the purposes of eradicating the tree lilac and other invasive species that it be certified for aquatic ecosystems um and that there's a uh preference for uh a more controlled method of adding it but if a licensed applicator um uh suggests and we approve that that spraying may be appropriate uh means um and then we just added a note about the permanent stabilization uh which was always the intention I think this is in our planting plan already but it's summarized here that in the mitigation and restoration areas which is this entire North portion um disturbance uh such as there is land disturbance would be um receded with a native conservation mix from um Amis W um excuse me from ammer Wetland plants um and then that this area which is really part of the main site would be um stabilized uh with traditional turf grass to to match the remainder of the site um and so you know with all of those in total um the areas of improvement uh was summarized in this location as well as the area of the the permanent impacts to the site um and uh based on that work we're anticipating a ratio of over 4 to1 of the area mitigated versus the impacted area um and so uh what we're presenting is what we feel is the best feasible plan that we can bring forward um and that you know the improvements to the buffer um are in our opinion uh we would suggest are um significantly outweigh the impact on a site that is heavily Disturbed in the existing condition uh which would meet the intent of the local bylaw um so with that happy to to take uh any questions thanks Chris that was great and very thorough um there's any public comment please raise your hand now and I'll keep an eye on the room um I'm just going to jump in with a couple comments um let's see I really like your solution with The Medallion if that's what you call it um was very creative and great um I did notice that not the entire perimeter of the mitigation restoration area is demarcated and I I would like to see that northern and western boundary um have some pins and since it's off the like historic um site maybe they could not be totally flushed with the ground but be more visible for for people um working in that area so that they would be able to see it and just keeping with the same um Engravings that you had for the other design so um yeah maybe not just maybe the corners and the midpoints um just because it's not really obvious what's going on on that end of it outside the Emily Dickinson house area um another thing was in our order of conditions we have so just to back up for the context since we're talking about a permanent impact to this buffer area within the 50ft notice furb I would also like to have some assurances that we're talking about permanent or as long as we can uh mitigation and I in our order of conditions we have for the life of the project is a language we're using for the management of the mitigation area but I see that in your points it's there's like a three-year maintenance period so we had talked about um I think that was related to sort of the Ecology of that plant but given the jux position of this place with other places in town I can see Bittersweet coming in there within five years and totally overrunning all the work that you're talking about so I think it's going to require a for the life of the project language um for maintenance in this so it's just going to be sort of part of the ground maintenance is to be pulling bitter suite and other invasive so um making that language in this plan consistent with the order of condition and then lastly I think it would be useful to maybe have some kind of sign off or a letter from your contractor or landscaper acknowledging the uh naturalized area that they just know that it's there because if they're not looking for it it could be easy to overlook so just that there's some line of communication and acknowledgement um that that's now part of the practice and the the operations person um knows what's going on too so those are my comments um I'll just I'll just we'll gather everybody's comments and maybe we can come back to you Andrea go ahead you're at the top of my list yeah uh when you were uh Chris when you you you guys have done a really good job of uh putting this together and and and finding Solutions when uh when we hit these bumps um I did have a question about uh the Japanese um lilac you mentioned the cutting the I think you said one tree that was on the uh in the resource area plus any streamers Etc did I get that right um there are among mature trees I think I counted uh perhaps 12 of them uh clustered in this area and along um the edge here talking about really you know mature ones um and then there are a number of you know call it five five or eight year growth uh especially clustered in this area uh there's a it gets a lot thinner out here as we get further away from the mature trees and then there are baby trees all over the place um throughout this this area okay and and then uh so what you're looking to do is cut them all is that correct uh within the resource area uh within yes so within the 50 foot buffer and as far as I can tell there's nothing there may not be any in the Wetland proper but to the extent that there is at the edges the the intention is to eradicate them as much as we possibly can obviously there's there some of them are are brand new and it's going to be you know difficult to get them all the first go round but you know with the follow-up maintenance we should um pretty much get all of it okay um uh so then the last question I have uh and just something for Thought are there any other um Japanese uh lilacs on the property outside of the zone that the area that you're looking to cut them and you said that they do rain their seeds uh down uh perhaps the part of that you know perhaps you guys take them all down to avoid having that issue yeah and so that's something we've discussed actually um and so I'll I'll tell you everything that's come up about it um a we absolutely do not want to remove all of them from the property because they were actually one of the favored plants by the Dickinson family um so that would be a hard cell um based on my research the reason why these things haven't been cited as invasive species yet is they tend not to get out in most places because just the nature of where they tend to be planted is in the middle of Main maintained areas as long as you're mowing around them those seeds are very heavy and they drop in place and they don't go anywhere um so they they don't move unless they have access to an unmaintained area and then they can out compete the native vegetation that's there so we do feel like um you know there's nothing in this area that I readily identified um I think there is some as we move down into this portion of the site and further away from the resource area that all have quite a lot of mode lawn around it so we really would not expect to see those um continue to create issues well thank you Chris Andre Alex yeah thanks very much Chris and and Jane Wald for the work on this I'd like to come back to an issue I talked about last time and that's a tree that you want to take out where this building's going to be located and uh it's a large tree very mature it's I didn't measure it but I'm guessing that it's about 18 Ines in diameter or more and uh I want just want to say if you take that tree out it's going to worsen the water problem that you have in the Evergreens because of vapo transpiration uh benefit that it now gives you won't be there anymore and so taking it out you will increase your water problem associated with the riv Evergreens um the last last time we talked about this I asked if we could move that building over 10et or so to save that tree and uh well with all due respect to Jane Wald I did call a friend of mine that I used to work with who knows a lot about uh um the National Historic properties she worked for the fish and wildlife service and um knew that stuff backwards and forwards for the National Wildlife Refuge system and I asked her if there's some flexibility because what I was told was there was no flexibility and their comment was there's always flexibility so I'm going to come back with a prolife uh kind of a request for that big tree and um um it's within the 50 Foot uh 30 foot I think it is with certainly within the 50 Foot yep um that you plan to take out and I again I'm going to ask if you could move that building over to save that tree which uh has lots of benefits to you Alex do you think that removing that I mean if they move the building they're still cutting pretty deep and close to that root system and I wonder if that would in fact save a tree that's just my thoughts on that I would it's a if they could move it out from underneath the drip edge of that tree I you know I think DPW comes pretty close to trees but it right now that tree comes out because of where it's not marked on this plan that he has in front of us right now it's right here oh okay yep um um okay where your hand is that black dot yes that's the trunk of it the appro you know we don't necessarily survey the drip line but we estimate it based on the the size of the tree so this is where we would estimate the drip line of the tree is well a tree that size could probably I mean there their Roots get close to the surface when they get older they do get sensitive but it would probably not die if a some of it was taken but if the tree if the building could get moved over I was guessing 10 feet I didn't I didn't stand under the tree and figure out the drip line but you deem you you do have flexibility under the rules and so I would ask that um since you are almost 100% within the 50 Foot line for this building that you add saving the tree to your mitigation plan okay um thanks Alex um I think I'm going to take a poll with the Commissioners um let's see um who would like to move forward with the current mitigation plan uh raise your hand and keep your hand down specifically if you'd like to uh revisit this with a the moving of the building um to save the tree so all in favor of current mitigation plan which does include the removal of the tree and the current um location of the building raise your hand can I take notes take notes on what who's raising their hand oh um okay I see a majority Alex um I mean I appreciate personally that we to save the mature trees I'm also seeing that they're planting longlived other native species and for me that's that um sort of compensates for that um so I think given that we have the majority and support of moving forward with this current mitigation plan that you unfortunately and the tree are in the minority there um okay so so given that any other comments Commissioners um um that would allow us to move forward tonight with all due respect you didn't give Jane Wald an opportunity to respond before you asked for a show of hands what what exactly would you like her to respond to just because we want to keep this you've already asked for a show of hands without asking for's response I just wanted to point that out I mean I assume that she that if push came to shove they could move that building like I but I don't but I don't need to I'm Moving Forward just to speak for the project as a whole we are not offering to move the building yeah can can I can I respond Michelle please do so um I really want to make a request here to try and keep the hearings to a limited time frame um because it feels like we're giving sort of undue process to certain hearings um and ammer so I don't know if it's Robert rules or what bringing things to a vote earlier um but um it seems as though this discussion you know we can really expedite things so um we don't have to discuss it now but want to definitely make a note for the future yeah well every hearing is different and requires response um and I'm trying so I think that was not that was not a dig you Michelle I promised okay um I have made three asks about this project that I would like to see be incorporated into the mitigation plan and I think you wrote those down Chris I did um and those seem quite reasonable I think we have we have no objection to those I guess we we might want to specify as to what that maintenance for the life of the project will actually entail so that we're clear on what what that effort will be yeah so if I was to explain that very simply it would be that you now have a naturalized native area that is under the operation and management of the Emily Dickinson property so just as you maintain the shrubs and the lawn as everything else you now have this section in which you have a sort of a different maintenance plan is which is those plants should remain native it should remain in the natural state that we're trying to describe here and keep it in perpetuity or for the life of that building um so the point is that if you're proposing that mitigation that that mitigation stays as long as that Ming does and that's the concession we're making here uh so does that that Mak sense yeah and I I think as long as it's it's sort of a routine you know checkup on it and that if we see invasive species moving in that we're going to go and and mitigate those in accordance with proper guidance that we're ensuring that the the plantings that we've put in um are are continuing to to succeed um as part of a routine thing I I just wanted to to be clear because this will be in in the deed permanently and so I wouldn't want some future commission thinking that you know uh that at all times all traces of invasive species should be absent from the site like that so that's why I just want to be clear I think that we discussed ratios so I mean 80% native like um it's small enough that that could be pretty easily surveyed but maybe that that's kind of The Benchmark that you're going for so then you know when to intervene is that acceptable um yeah I think that that's I think that helpful um to to have it clear um and that that creates trigger points as opposed to sort of an open-ended obligation okay all right so um those additions okay so can we make this motion as is or do we need to um include um okay with noted additional conditions are we good to go you're on mute Erin so I would say the the additional noted conditions that I have here are that we're going to maintain 80% natives in perpetuity in the in the um mitigation area that there are going to be um additional um uh boundary markers at the corners of the mitigation area that aren't current currently marked and the center points and and the center points halfway points on the on the um straightaways can I just pause there and say that the midpoint here would be directly in the middle of the Wetland and is that really what we want okay where does the lawn start um so we I mean so this would be the corner of our restoration area uh and then this is all pretty much naturalized the whole run okay yeah then I guess the corners if it's not feasible on that western part I'm looking at the different hashtagging so if you can fit it maybe not at the Midway yeah right there yeah I think this this side's no problem but I'm I'm just looking at eyeballing it it would be about there and I wouldn't want to send someone tromping through the middle of that area to drive something in the ground okay that's fine with me okay so approximate locations along the measurement not in the Wetland and then um uh some type of uh written um acknowledge M from the landscape company that they're aware of the um uh maintenance requirements within the mitigation area um over the course of time that you know whomever that landscaper is would identify that they're aware of those areas those are the conditions that I have that are in addition to the current drafted um order of conditions can you guys see my screen when I share because for whatever reason it seems like you can't all I can see is Chris's screen okay I don't know why it's not um I can see it oh you can see myre see her yeah I can see hers I can see it now seems like some people could see I was sharing photos earlier and it seemed like you guys couldn't see them okay so here's the motion so as long as we um on the record we've already identified the additional conditions which seem acceptable and I I think um just to to clarify um in terms of so uh in terms of how current ground maintenance actually works at the Museum to make sure that that we're in alignment with how the museum actually operates because I'm uh getting a note from Jane about landscape companies uh unfortunately I think I've got to ask her to to just chime in a little bit on on how current maintenance of the grounds works and who does it um and you're muted yeah the uh recently undergone a change in the way its landscape is is managed um at times Andis college is a a manager of landscape and at other times um in uh other vendors outside vendors are um so I think uh the whatever mechanism uh the commission wants um I'm I'm not 100% sure it's going to be an agreement or a letter from a single landscape vendor do you have like a operations plan or a point of contact for this property who oversees the coordination with the landscapers uh at this point it is a partnership between me and uh the head of grounds at the college um I mean this is why I wanted field identification because it things can fall apart when somebody that doesn't know the area or the the intent goes on and they're just not going to notice so yeah I don't know I'm looking for ideas here like the point is that this is maintained so if you guys have an idea of about how to clearly communicate that to whoever is going to be there at a given time across the years like I'm open to hearing what that Avenue is well I I think it would be u a letter or agreement with the museum and not with a vendor that may change Through The Years okay with and in that letter it would specify that the museum is responsible for communicating with the vendor and the contractor the landscaper um what the situation is is because I think that if these pins are going to be flushed with the ground they're going to be easily missed and you know people are going to be busy doing landscaping and not really looking for this so that's my concern D I see your hand up yeah well well um can you hear me yeah I guess while I know these details are important I I am sensitive to the commission's time as Laura noted a few minutes ago but to me this strikes me strikes strikes me it's really up to the applicant to the owner to the manager of the property to agree to this whoever the landscaper is so this is really an agreement in my mind between the operators of the Emily Dickinson Museum and the commission through this permit so I I I I just don't think we can predict five years 10 years 20 years down the road it strikes me as similar to although this is not a conservation restriction the owner of the property is responsible for the terms of the con upholding the terms of the conservation uh restriction so likewise if you want this to run with the property run with the deed it really Falls to uh Jane currently and her staff to make sure that the whoever is doing the landscape it be being a private company or Emmer's college that they they adhere to that and to some degree the buck stop with the the The Operators of the museum so I guess I I don't are we looking for something more than that I'm just wondering we we I mean I I agree I don't want to try and manage that communication to that level um I was hoping it would be more simple so I'll let you guys figure out what that line of communication is I mean I initially wanted something very clear in the field but because of the the intent to keep it more historically um you know relevant then we're we worked all the way down to like a flush with the ground Monument so my only concern is that that's not going to be enough so I happy to just leave it with you guys to figure out um that communication and that we just are leaving it as is and maybe walk back that line of communication that it's just expected that that will be a naturalized area and you can manage how that works however is necessary can I make a comment yep yeah I think my my point which was not eloquently spoken before is I I fully agree with Dave we're making um quite a few exceptions here um more so than we we do in accordance with upholding our our um bylaw and it doesn't seem like our problem to solve even though I completely understand the spirit of what you're discussing you know because it goes out for a long time it it really seems like the onus is on um the Emily Dickinson Museum to make sure all of our requirements are met um not on us to solve for them so sure I mean I'm cognizant of the fact that um we don't have like a full-time person going out to check every year the next years in perpetuity so I'm trying to buffer against just what's probably inevitable okay well I'm happy to leave to you guys how you want to solve the problem of keeping that area natural um I like monuments and I think we're looking for a motion to close this and issue of our issue our order of conditions I will move to close the public hearing and issue order of conditions for 214 Main Street D number 08907 33 with the standard boiler plate conditions under both the Massachusetts Wetlands protection act and wetlands protection town of ammer General bylaws article 3.3 one and regulations with the noted additional conditions second that okay we have Jason on the motion Andre on the second Laura hi Bruce welcome back Bruce Jason hi hi Rachel obain Andre hi Alex Nate and I'm an i okay Chris thank you for working with us thank you for all that attention to the details thank you Jane looking forward to seeing that place restored thank you all good night okay all right so hearing number six abbreviated notice of resourced area delineation pure Sky development Incorporated on behalf of WD koh's Incorporated represented by Godard Consulting for the confirmation of resource area boundaries on site limited to areas that fall within the 100 foot feet of the proposed solar installation at shsb roog map 9B Lots 11 and 12 and Maps 90 Lots 27 Okay so we Aon I assume you're bringing people in we have received the revised plans with the dates added um and title changed all dates are consistent throughout so everything we've asked for on this um map and andrad have been addressed so thank you for doing that um Aon do you want to give us a short update yeah um I just worked sort of behind the scenes to make sure that all the revision dates were included that the title block of the plan includes the final revision date um we have a a stamp on there um at this point so um and I also updated the finding a fact as well as the um Form B to reflect the updated um plan revision dates so I believe at this point we um can issue the or ad thanks sarin cor Tom do you wna give us a five minute update we uh thank you very much Madam chair members of the board for the record Tom Rey attorney with bacon Wilson in ammer uh no I think Wy it's been a long night for you I think Aon did a terrific job of explaining exactly what uh we've done and so you know we're to talk about it if you want but I think this stage is just issue the oad and then you know we'll start the noi process thanks Tom um okay yes if there's public comment please raise your hand and I'll um go to it okay I see a caller in I am allowing you to talk please state your name and your address and keep it to two minutes um yes um again Vincent oconor 175 Summer Street he Vincent go ahead okay um so I'm I'm not part of the reason I asked the question earlier was to be able to ask this question for this hearing um which has to do with um as the applicant proceeds please speak up as the applicant proceeds um is it clear that the that the rainfall that is going to be used to create the um storm water runoff uh um present presentation is the rainfall data that you you articulated with regard to the pot wine Lane culverts um I think it's pretty important and I think it probably the applicant should leave the hearing um knowing what that is um what's expected so we don't have a situation where some very substantial revisions might have to be made um yeah thanks Vincent I'm just going to field that one so that um is probably more relevant for when we have an noi and storm water calculations in front of us and tonight we're just addressing a resource area delineation but it's pretty standard practice um to use forecasting for you know actual um modeled climate change appropriate rainfall data and I don't think that we ever encounter anything that isn't using that now CU everybody is pretty um certain that that just won't work so um yeah please keep posted on the progress of this um of this project and um you can bring your question back when it's um when it's the noi but but yes standard standard operating procedure at this point for storm water planning um okay 7.83 for now and you know 2070 is is 11 that's that's the standard that that you're expecting to be used in any um presentation future presentation um okay just very quickly and I won't dwell on this but there's different models that can be used so I don't know that those are going to be the exact ones that are going to come up in this noi but um we will be reviewing it um thoroughly to just make sure that everyone's on board with Which models and which resources are being used for that for that but don't stick to those numbers specifically because it's very likely not to be those that's all I want to be clear about okay and how would we be informed as to what which numbers will be used and why um well I guess our materials will be posted as public materials for a meeting so once the noi has been posted you could review those or have other people you know review them and come back to the meeting and we could discuss it then okay okay all right thank you thank you um okay I don't see any other comments Commissioners questions comments Jason yeah I I wouldn't have to seek some clarification this we're saying this is shy road map 9B lot 1112 map 9d Lot 27 but what appears to be labeled very largely 9 b-11 and 9 B-12 it says they are not included in this study and I'm curious as to if I am reading something wrong or why those areas weren't included in this study er do you want to feel that one um so and I would defer to the applicant on some level if if I am misspeaking but what I understand is there are certain areas of the property where the project footprint is not um going to be located and so they're um they've only delineated areas that are relevant to the project footprint um that they believe is necessary to confirm uh to permit the project um so there there may be additional areas and and those are the areas that the commission had highlighted on the plan I believe that are in like a hatched location and then we also had them add a study area boundary as well to designate the limits of that study area so that we could clearly differentiate the areas where the study actually took place and where resource areas had been confirmed and then the areas that had not been studied as part of the um anrad process yeah that's exactly correct and then um it when Ain is mentioning confirmed that was those were the areas that were peer-reviewed so it wasn't it wasn't just um information sent from us it was uh double checked by a peer riewer from the the town Mrs Stockman thanks um I'm seeing another public comment um okay I'll just Jenny Kell two minutes please okay good evening Jenny Kik 147 shsb Road was looking for a clarification about the intermittent stream at the entrance to the site at the zba we saw uh the revised site plans and the stream was not included and attorney REI said it was not part of the ored but at looking at the ored I see that it is part of the ored so I'm a bit confused uh look for clarification from Tom or from Corey thank you thanks Jenny yeah the intermittent stream on the adjacent property which casts a buffer onto this property um which we're reviewing tonight is does exist it is covered under this ored um I'm not sure that we need to discuss why it wasn't provided to the zba but we are acknowledging right now that it was different so I would just like to say that this ored and what we are approving tonight should be the material used to be presented to other committees Commissions in the town so this is the the facts that we're laying out right now so going forward we'd like to see this approved resource delineation provided to the zba and others like considering this plan um thank you Jenny um and I just have one more comment about this I don't see any other commissioner hands up um when we do have the noi come up just to save a lot of back and forth we do expect to see all the state and local resource areas delineated in it um you know a d number I with the isolated land subject of flooding identified on the site we're aware that they're there we're not covering them tonight but um just so you know that what that's what the commission's expecting when we when we see the next plan set um let's see is there anything else Commissioners that you'd like to add okay Jenny I see that your hand is up I'm not sure if it's back up or nope okay um all right any other comments and if not I think we're looking to move to close this public hearing and issue this ored all right I moveed to close uh the public hearing and issue an order of resource area delineation stamp plan set dated uh 429 2024 under both Wetlands protection act and the and wetlands town of ammer General bylaws article 3.31 in regulations which drafted uh with drafted form 4B and findings of fact referencing final draft date of 42924 for shutesbury road maps 9B and 9d lots 11 12 and 27 D number 089 d07 27 I'll second that r on the motion Jason on the second Rachel you're upstanding on this yeah okay um Andre hi Jason Hi Bruce hi Laura hi Alex hi um Laura can you vote on this one yeah I can do this one just not shsb yep okay oh wait this is shsb you mean oh no sorry I didn't mean to abstain from the last one then oh God I got confused okay it's okay we just continued it right so you're abstaining from this one that is correct okay got it all right um anom okay well thank you for attending to all those revisions and um we'll see you with the noi thank you so much everybody good night have a good evening thank you okay what do we still have um UMass just says UMass do you w to take five on that one yeah sure am I muted okay um so um I received a electrical permit application for some um duck Bank work at UMass and in the course of that process um discovered that some some work had been underway and um in my communications with UMass um they I'm not there was a communication breakdown of some sort and at this point um I I advise them to submit to the Conservation Commission um in compliance with their operation and maintenance order of conditions um that they notify the commission of the work and ask the commission to approve it as operation and maintenance under their standing operation and maintenance order of conditions um it it should have come to the commission prior to the work beginning but it didn't so this is essentially a request for that for the work to be um approved on on the dock Bank retroactively um there is a second part part of it which is that there was some additional work done um to install a um an access road and a um Crossing uh CT and I've asked them to file a permit um an after Thea permit for that work there's photos in the um project folder um so it's uh that's basically what I'm um suggesting to the commission at this point is that we um retroactively approve the work that's underway under the operation and maintenance OMP and then work with them in the future um on a after the fact filing for the work that's already underway thanks Saron Bruce how many times over the last five years would you say that we've had to give you Mass a retro active permission to do something I mean in my tenure it's been maybe five three not not a not a significant number I would call that fairly significant I mean I was hoping someone would be here tonight so that we could discuss the prior approval component of the OM that's what I was getting at it it feels egregious yeah um I it does feel like a pattern I'm going to be honest and it would be nice that if they you know they have their own P we understand what's in it but there is the component of it the work happens after it's reviewed and approved by the the commission so I don't know how to best get that message to them um eron maybe we could just talk about that offline go ahead Alex um I have company in the house this evening so with your permission I'm going to leave early you put in your time already Alex have a good night thank you by thanks um Andre yeah uh well like um like Bruce I'm a little bit tired of this I've seen uh meaning it just seems to me that uh that that it keeps repeating itself and I'm not ready to uh with what we have right now I'm not ready to approve anything I want to I want to be able to talk to the folks who've been doing this and and uh we got to find a way to uh to make sure that they're checking with us uh ahead of time we keep finding out that they're doing work and uh uh after the fact and I don't want to see that anymore any other Commissioners Jason yeah I would I I Echo that sentiment and I would I would also like to say it seems like they're continually utilizing s swca who I would also assume knows that they ought to be notifying us prior and getting approval before they start this work and it since I've been on here it seems like there's been two or three of them so I would uh I would just like to Echo those comments thanks Jason Laura yeah I I think I'm not saying anything unique here although um just a broader perspective of it does seem a bit like a pattern um and wondering whether it's Aaron or Dave and you know how we can uh because it it feels a little bit disrespectful honestly of um of the work we're doing here um so I don't know how to escalate it internally at you so the pattern can be broken thanks Laura Rachel yeah I'm curious if it's the same group that's doing this repeating the pattern or if these different agencies within UMass UMass is you know a big operation um and if if it's something that maybe have to go higher up the chain uh to to get everybody on board um to make sure that they're following the rules or if it's the same if it's the same group doing it over and over again that's that's definitely inous thanks Rachel um all right Dave Aaron you've heard some sentiments from the commission here and it sounds like we might want to talk to them I'm not sure uh if people are willing to approve this without doing that first but do you have a suggestion for communication line um to kind of straighten things out for process here Dave go ahead yeah I don't have much to add I I I I understand the commission's frustration and there definitely has been a couple of these I'm I'm thinking of the the Culvert along the cinder path as probably the largest one um in recent history um I think you know it's perfectly within you the commission's purview not to approve this retroactively and ask uh somebody the project manager and perhaps someone um as r suggested um higher up the org chart coming to your next meeting to explain why we are here again um and Aon and I could work on with them on who that might be um but I I do think it needs to be a conversation above the project manager on this particular project so Aaron um we didn't talk about that before but that certainly could that conversation could take place before your next meeting in two weeks thanks Dave Bruce well added component is looking forward to a year from this summer when they start taking all the water out of the pond it's going to be a huge chore and I think we need to have a really clear understanding with whoever the decision makers are about how they're going to do that way ahead of time and not have this kind of thing oh well we forgot to to talk with you about this particular part of it um it it just so I I agree with what Dave said as as a first step but I think it's going to take more than just one time yeah good point um so perhaps um moving forward with tonight is that we are not moving to approve this and we have their attention and we'd like them to come to the next meeting and discuss this uh with us specifically before we make that approval does show up hands is that palatable to everybody okay yes okay um all right so I don't think we're moving on anything and we're just tabling this to next time and we'll and Erin will you please reach out okay thank you okay um so I have um ever Source on my agenda I don't and I see Simons here yeah I just want to make sure that we don't miss the issuance of the or ad for ammer college which is on that same first slide um and then I think we've covered everything on the first other business slide long other business slide High Point Drive perhaps we did that one uh yeah we took care of High Point um okay where is this um so I did draft the um the orad it's the just sort of the standard um template so to speak um with the additional conditions that we had discussed as far as the um uh areas that were not included in the delineation are highlighted in there um but just highlights the resources that weren't delineated and um yeah so have a motion teed up here but there is a draft um in the um one drive as well okay looking for a motion unless there's any questions okay move to close the public hearing and issue an order of resource area delineation stamp plan set dated uh 417 2024 um under both Wetlands protection act and wetlands protection town of Amis bylaw laws General bylaws article 3.31 and regulations uh with findings of fact for 151 and zero College Street maps 14b and 14d lots 1665 and One D number 08907 34 I will second that Andre on the motion Jason on the second Rachel I'm stain um Jason hi Bruce hi Andre hi Laura hi okay is that a fire truck in the background somewhere Bruce's computer or something every time I hear it his he's his he's he's claiming okay almost there guys all right um Urus yes okay maybe just it looks like in your opinion this looks good and we can move to issu or take pit of compliance is that sufficiently stated yes so um we did receive the request for certificate of compliance from eversource um we also received some abutter um comments um I did reach out to uh both the town attorney and D about sort of the outstanding um concerns that were raised from the abutter comments um and basically I think that from where I sit there's no Wetland violations the work appears to have been done in compliance with the order of conditions um and it would be difficult for us to add a new condition to the order of conditions through the certificate of compliance process um I do um urge um ever source to work with the abutter to um come to a solution um on the outstanding AB butter concerns I'm just not sure that doing it through the Conservation Commission is the appropriate path and that um I would basically suggest that if there are additional um adjustments that need to be made on the site that a future permit be filed to address those outstanding concerns um so that's that's kind of based on all of the advice that I've been able to gather that's my recommendation to the commission but I know that um uh the applicant is here as well so if um if you want to hear from them on the responses to the abutters concerns that's totally toally Fair okay um so I realize there's some sensitivity around this and um Aon did do a lot of due diligence to see where the commission uh has perview over it and what's appropriate for the conditions so um if there's any comments from eversource just please raise your hand um otherwise Commissioners any comments okay um okay so I guess given uh what we understand about this and what our um legal purview is I think we're looking to move to issue this or toate of compliance for DP number 089 0675 um I'll go ahead and make the motion to issue a certificate um complete certificate of compliance for 14 Indian Pipeline map 21 L 49 D number 89077 Dr read below for for the forest cutting plan review sorry was yeah move up H motion to issue a complete certificate of compliance for D number 089 d0 675 am I holding there am I reading more I'll second that one okay okay uh Laura on the motion andreana second um Rachel Laura hi Jason Hi Andre hi ruce hi and okay um hin Street certificate of compliance required as built plan building inspector did not require as built yes so this is really at your discretion the the order of conditions required an as built plan um to be provided but the building inspector did not require it because the typically um according to the building inspector they only requiring those if they're um close to the lot setback or there are other sort of um issues where they need to make sure that um there are sort of compliance issues with zoning or um sort of limit lot limitations so to speak um so in this case because they were well within the lot line the building department didn't require the as built so the applicant didn't prepare one and they're hoping because it's a simple home edition that the commission might consider that um I did go out and do a site visit and I can show you the um site visit photos they did um complete the planting of the um blueberry bushes the barn um was removed um which was right on the slope um and that area was um mulched um my one observation on the site was there were um they do have a a Thicket of Japanese knotweed that's just poking up um and also um I did observe that they have um some wing geous and um some um uh barbery in the in the back of the lot which um you know are pretty I would say pretty significant um and I had suggested that they might want to consider some invasive treatment um on the site to address them um you can see the knotweed sort of popping up here in the freshly seated and mulched Lawn area um these are the blueberry bush plantings this is in the barn footprint where the barn has been removed um Erin was there anything in our order of conditions that required them to do any kind of invasive treatment or is this more of a no no proactive uh yeah it was it was not called out specifically um in the in the order of conditions to do invasive treatment okay and they said that they may um try to address it in the future but they um didn't want to deal with it as part of this order of conditions since it wasn't incorporated into it initially okay well that that's that I guess [Music] um Jason I noticed that their straw Waddles still in place [Music] um it doesn't appear to be biodegradable looks like it's wrapped in a plastic mesh um are we requiring removal of those things as part of our um certificate of compliance yeah I mean I was there the grass is just starting to poke up so I didn't want to take the Waddles out just yet um so it's you know they're they're looking to get a certificate of occupancy and they're done with all work so it's really you know completely at your discretion if you want to hold off to issue until that comes out um if you want to wait and get an as built um if you're comfortable issuing now and I could do a follow-up inspection in two or three weeks once the grass has come in and ask them to remove that um the casing on the waddle um good catch Jason I would definitely like to see that waddle and the plastic removed um I guess when that happens versus when we issue this is is more of the tricky part can I just ask why our order of conditions had the as built that's doesn't seem to be something we typically include in our order of conditions yeah I mean um so to be totally honest it's kind of um ammer is unique like a lot of towns I've worked for require as builts in their building department for everything that's constructed um ammer doesn't so much so I've kind of been adjusting um our orders of conditions to correspond with um you know because it doesn't seem fair to ask an applicant like ordinarily like in in some towns I've worked for the the building department would require the as built and so they would already have it and be sharing it with it'd be reibly available for other departments to utilize for their um permit process but since they're not being required to do that I um you know at the close out of a permit it's it's it's a feels a little unfair to ask it of them um I think there are instances where it's very appropriate for example um in cases where somebody's building really close to a wetland and you're trying to ensure that they're not putting a structure closer than where the structure was actually permitted to go um so for example if the commission allowed a structure to be say over 25 ft away from a wetland you may want an as built to be completed to ensure that the project wasn't going any closer than 25 ft um so those are sort of more um projects specific that may trigger something like that okay thanks for the background Dave I was just going to suggest that it strikes me on this situation that what the commission is looking for with regard to Jason's concern about the the the straw waddle is is a fairly minor thing and so you know I would recommend you you you take action on this tonight don't carry it to the next meeting um you know Aaron has the discretion and your your um your uh Authority if you will to go out and make sure that is removed at the appropriate time when the grass has grown I'm just trying to you know encourage you to move move these simple things along and not you know back up your agenda yeah I I totally agree I guess I we can't really I condition a certificate of compliance can we I mean so it's just sort of you're going to check in with them in a few weeks no you can you could condition it you could you could issue you could issue the certificate of compliance contingent on um a follow-up inspection in two weeks and removal of the straw waddle all right well that's good with me all right so then can I move to issue a conditional certificate of compliance uh with ongoing conditions 78 9 D number 89-0 697 conditioned on the removal of the straw waddle once the grass has uh emerged fully emerged Second Jason on the motion Rachel on a second Rachel hi Jason Hi Andre hi Bruce Laura hi I'm I okay uh Indian pipe should have get a compliance yeah so this is a hold over from a 1981 orders of conditions for the um uh sorry ammer Woods um uh project and this this site's actually not even located in buffer zone it was just part of the overall subdivision but I did go out and verify that the site is stable um there were no issues there so I recommend uh complete certificate be issued on this one I will move to issue a complete certificate of compliance for 14 Indian pip Lane map 21d L 49 D number 08907 Second Jason on the motion Rachel on the second Rachel hi Jason Hi Andre hi Bruce hi I Laura hi sorry and I um okay uh Forest cutting plan review that was in your folder there's nothing really to discuss um but per my general comments on the forest cutting plans uh we don't have a lot of control over these and I just want to keep pointing out that um at some point we may want to consider a bylaw um even when we do ask for some kind of assurances or oversight or site visit It generally isn't um permitted or I don't know permitted is the word but um determined not to be necessary so um sometimes it's probably just fine I just kind of want to point out that um this is how Forest putting cutting plans go to the extent I'm not even sure why they come to us so that's my two cents on Forest cutting plant Bruce go ahead Aon there was a lot of back and forth and you drew several times on the map that there were Wetlands there and then the state said no there's not Wetlands there is that basically where we ended up yes okay well it just yeah um anyway so that's what's that Bruce I trust you not them yeah um it's probably a little late to get into this so all right um just just noting that here's one take a look at it um there'll be more uh monitoring reports are there any things to no big big monitoring report I mean we're we are in full swing um there are a ton of projects under construction in town and um doing my best to keep them all sort of under watchful eye um but yeah you'll see there's a lot of monitoring reports in your folder this week okay public comment one hold out okay not seeing any hands I think that's it we got everything I think so okay great thanks for hanging in there everybody it's like big one okay with that I'm looking for a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second Andre on the motion Jason on the second Bruce hi Rachel hi Jason Hi Andre hi Laura hi and I and I all right guys nice work good night question have you ever seen anybody vote no on the adjournment no no no I couldn't even consider I vote in favor too all good night everyone good night everybody