good to go okay um welcome everyone to the amoris design review board meeting of April 29th 2024 my name is Erica vas and as the chair of the emmer design review board I'm to order at 5:02 p.m. the meeting is being recorded and will be made available via the town of Amor's YouTube channel minutes are being taken pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended again by chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 this meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting May do so via Zoom or by telephone no in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means a hyperlink to the hearing will be posted on the town's online calendar board members I will take roll call when I call your name let me know you're here um lindsy star here that's fun Karen winter not here this evening uh Pat o present Karen Blum present and for the record this is Karen's first design review board meeting as a new member we are glad that she's here oh and here's Karen winter um so welcome Karen Blum we're glad to have you on the team and welcome Kar winter think that is her role and Eric is all right board members if technical issues arise we may need to pause temporarily to fix the problem and then continue the meeting if the discussion needs to pause it will be noted in the minutes please use the raise hand function to ask a question or make a comment I'll see your request and call on you to speak after speaking remember to remute yourself the general public comment item is the verb reserved for public comment regarding items that are not on tonight's agenda Please be aware the board will not respond to comments during general public comment period public comment could also be heard at other times during the meeting when determined appropriate please indicate that you wish to make a comment by clicking the rais hand button when public comment is solicited if you've joined the zoom meeting using a telephone please indicate that you wish to make comment by pressing star9 on your phone when called on please identify Yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when finished speaking residents can express their views for up to three minutes or at the discretion of the chair if a speaker does not comply with these guidelines or exceeds their allotted time participant uh participation will be discontinued from the meeting tonight's agenda includes the following we'll start with general public comment period and then we have two applications tonight drb FY 20248 from Paradise of India to replace existing awning and number 19 from the town of amrest to install new Standalone accessible public restroom in Kendrick Park we'll then approve our meeting minutes and then head on to other business um which tonight will include a revisiting of the uh discussion on design review board andard so we can head into general public comment period if that we have any guests who would like to share a thought so I think the only two U individuals and tenants are both our applicants so I think uh besides that there's nobody else whose hands raised to speak tonight okay thanks Rob and let's keep our eye on the numbers if some folks pop in we good yeah we'll do okay so is is there anybody here tonight from Paradise of India there is I believe and dorso is an attendance and let me see if they will accept my panelist invitation oh she's rejoining us now okay can you hear me we can hear you welcome glad to see you um nice to see you all I we you've submitted a couple of of documents uh for the drb and I can screen share or if you're comfortable doing that you certainly can do that what would you um I can't I'm on my phone so what I have is on the computer I do have okay paper I'll screen share and if you could walk us through your proposal okay and and you can tell me when to move my cursor around and things like that okay so um what look so basically they have existing awnings which are in disrepair so we're just looking to covered them with new fabric but we would be changing the color to the colors that are noted um probably a page or two down it's a a green Tweed and then a a green stripe so the front yeah so kind of as shown in the picture there um and then they currently have lettering on the two ends of the large rning out front with just the name or may be just one end and then uh so we're just G to replicate what's there and then the other Dome awning over the front entrance just says entrance and then there's a small awning on the another Dome awning on the side I think that's just a back or side entrance maybe for deliveries or whatever all right so fair to sum up that the existing awnings are black yeah with white lettering and the changes are to move to a forest green with white lettering and then uh with the exception with a forest green on the sides you said in the veilance and then the front will be this tweet stripe okay and you're using the existing structure so nothing's changing there yeah and it's going to be a Sunbrella fabric awning so no changes to the actual material type either all right uh drb members are there any uh clarifying questions concerns you'd like to raise I think it looks pretty sharp yeah I think it'll look nice a little more color and and can I just ask the umbrellas will stay that same color so there's there's some some continuity between the umbrellas and the awning as well oh yeah and I'm not sure if the umbrellas are part of their location or um the neighbor yeah it may yeah I'm pretty sure the the cafe next door uh Black Sheep uses those for their business I don't even know if I think those umbrellas might be gone at this point they might have put them away um for the winter time so yeah I yeah the business yeah if they do use them and it does coordinate so it's a nice nice point it's it's a nice you know the to totality is a nice um streetcape yes definitely agree all right well it sounds like there isn't uh much to be concerned about here could I uh ask for a motion to approve as submitted I make a motion to approve as submitted thanks is there a second I second thank you Ken all those in favor of approving Paradise of Indian new awning proposal please raise your hand and we've lost Lindsay for a minute I think no I'm here oh there she is all right sorry I have my a funny screen setting that's unanimous thank you so much oh great and that was a quick one we are record time yeah um now do I still need to go to the building department to get yes yes so you should you should reach out to Jennifer Mullins tomorrow and just tell her you got approval and then just do whatever steps are required next after that for the permit okay super thank you guys appreciate it no problem take care okay have a good one bye too bye okay and our next um proposal application is number 19 the town of ammer and this is to design or to install sorry a prefabricated public toilet at Kendrick Park I don't know if you had a chance to see the drawings in the package um they usually like to do the screen sharing so that'll be a little easier so I'll introduce the individual who I just promoted so this is Bob parent he is our Bob forgive me if I get your title wrong he's our special projects capital projects manager but also a professional engineer did I get that correct Bob uh relatively okay close I think it was special capital projects coordinator was the position was created last July um so yes thanks Rob thanks for being here Bob thank you so if you'd like I can talk a little bit about the project and maybe just a little bit of my background as as Rob indicated I'm a professional engineer I've been working in the business for about 40 years spent 30 years in the Consulting engineering field um and then spent most of the last 10 years as a Municipal Employee Public Works director in East Long Meadow for half that time and then city engineer in Holio so I've kind of worked on both sides of the public spectrum and decided I didn't want to retire so I'm I'm helping the town move some projects forward um and this is one of those projects um my understanding and I I went back and I read the site plan approval for the Kendrick Park project I think that was approved back in 2020 um there was a desire at that point to have a restroom facility at the park I think it was is talked about during public comment um and and um what we're hoping to do is to try to move that that goal forward at this point um using now I I'm looking at okay I can screen share or you could screen share or what's the best way to do that um you know I think it'd be great if you can because then you can drive us around sure okay let me make certain I can share the right screen so you should be able to see my screen now yeah I'll have to zoom in a little bit as I go through things but the the goal maybe to get you oriented first and I apologize for this kind of ugly looking plan because there's a bunch of notations that I think AutoCAD uh placed uh in that if you see the little yellow sticky notes I don't know if it shows up that way um when I did this at the office I'm at home now when did at the office I didn't see those but unfortunately when I do it at home I see that um what you see in front of you is a plan for a uh roadway reconstruction project that the DPW has designed internally and they put out to bid and actually awarded to Warner Brothers um and Warner Brothers is scheduled to begin construction this is just one little piece of the project but uh scheduled to be begin construction of this project sometime after college graduation gets out at the earliest of this year uh so the roadway improvements that you see here are improvements that uh that the DPW has planned and as I said has is is getting ready to start the execution of uh you can see the angled parking you can see the other improvements relative to the roadway they were planning to make sidewalk improvements as part of that roadway project and if if you look at the bottom of the screen where my cursor is this is the sidewalk that they're planning to construct an expanded sidewalk connecting to the existing pathway that goes up to the Park area um and what we're proposing to do is to come in alongside uh their roadway project and I apologize if you're seeing what just popped up on my screen I've get this crazy no we we don't see your pop up good I'm glad you don't no nothing bad but it was just a some sort of advertising thing that popped up um what we're proposing to do is alongside the sidewalk that they're constructing as part of this project to um install as you indicated a a pre-manufactured pre uh fabricated restroom facility that right now we have shown to be directly adjacent to the sidewalk um and I'll show you some some photographs and layouts of that restroom facility in a moment but one of the items that we had flagged in our drb application is that we expect to seek a waiver of the 15t setback for structures from the roadway RightWay the RightWay here is a little bit less than 60 ft but it's effectively the backside of the sidewalk so in order for us to meet the 15t setback from that we would actually have to take this facility and move it further into the Park and basically sort of create a perpendicular you know sidewalk walkway to the restroom as opposed to aligning it um and and paralleling it with the proposed sidewalk so it's our certainly our desire to to locate it the way we have shown but we do KN know that we need to get a waiver from the planning board in order to do that um so what is this facility it's something if you Google something called the port Lou the Portland Lou the reason it's called the Portland Lou is they were originally constructed to serve the city of Portland Oregon and the city actually I believe has a patent on the design and had has licensed that to a fabricator uh who can then fabricate manufacture and ship these units anywhere in the country there's about 300 of them in place as I understand right now um locally town of green field uh just put one in last fall I haven't been up there since the day it was it was uh brought on to site but it's between if you're familiar with where the Wilson's department store used to be there's a large parking lot behind that building it's Chapman and Davis Street it's located on the edge of the parking lot behind uh Chapman and Davis uh that's the closest installation there are several in Cambridge there a few in Somerville there's a couple more being proposed in L Massachusetts as I understand from the the the supplier um but effectively it's it's a single unit single occupancy restroom facility um it's it's effectively a No Frills facility it's it's um you know has all the essential components within the interior of the building it has a changing uh table inside of the structure it has a hand washing station on the outside of the structure um it has louvers at the bottom and the top of the structure it has a a skylight at the top of the structure um when I got involved and we were starting to take a look at options I sat down with the town manager Building Commissioner Rob Moore Public Safety departments police and fire and one of the concerns regarding putting a restroom facility at this location particularly one that might be open to the public after the the normal playground hours you know most of you know the restrooms at at most parks in town have timed locks on them and they time out they lock when when the the the the the park closes for the daytime the intent on this one would be to have time time locks on it but to have them um open into the evening uh which raised a concern from a public safety standpoint of being able to um s of better manage the activity related to the restroom and one of the advantages of this facility if you can see the louvers is basically you can see from the outside of the facility um you know how many occupants there might be on the interior of the facility so it's it's screened it's you know it's private but on the other hand you can see the bottom of the facility you can see the very top of the facility um it has some other Provisions that that are have been tested over the years in Portland and Elsewhere for instance in terms of interior lighting the interior lighting is blue lighting and the reason for that is to discourage some of the activities that could go on um on the interior of the um of the restroom facilities and do unfortunately in public restroom facilities fairly often so they they're found that the blue lighting makes it less favorable and conducive to some of the illicit activities that might happen um so let me you know this is is the manufacturer's uh uh brochure if you want to see what some of these facilities look like uh this top facility is actually at a park in California uh that was installed by Portland Lou the lower one is in Cambridge Mass um in that streetscape area uh the one at the very top of here is the is the unit in Greenfield as it was being installed last fall um basically comes you know pre-manufactured the only thing that the owner does is they basically uh put the support structure the the foundation in place and the slab in place with all the necessary piping and piping Connections in place for the unit um and then whatever type of exterior type of improvements or enhancements they might want to put in place um there are a layout of the restroom you can see this um it's one end of the restroom is a mechanical or one end of the structure is a mechanical room effectively and the other end is the curved end is where the where the entryway is into the restroom um everything is Ada compatible as I indicated there's a changing table and all the other necessary facilities inside um as mentioned the Skylight you can get these units with solar panels on the roof this particular location I'm a bit concerned that we probably don't have enough solar exposure to be able to rely reliably rely Ry on um solar panels alone as a power source um because there are a number of trees uh in relatively close proximity to this location and um in order to keep this facility functioning in the winter time the piping on the interior of the building and the handwashing station outside is heat traced to prevent it from freezing so if we had an issue where we we couldn't reliably provide Power throughout the wintertime we might risk freezing pipes so right now I think we're leaning towards providing a dedicated electrical connection to this location to make certain that we have reliable power um I know there'll be a question regarding lighting the lighting to this facility is effectively an LED rope type lighting system that is located on both sides of the structure relatively you it's enough to light the face of the structure um so you can see it and actually changes it changes intensity depending on whether or not the restroom is occupied or not occupied um sight lighting if I flip back up to the let's see if I look at this carefully there is a I'm not seeing it on the plan right now but there is decorative lighting that's being installed as part of the sidewalk and streetscape project we're not at the moment proposing to do any additional lighting uh beyond what is proposed to be done as part of the dpw's project there um B is it possible to zoom in on the the L location because I see certainly as I look on my own screen there's a an LP right on the concrete pad light pole there is a utility poll let me see oops yeah that will be that I believe is an well no I guess it is a proposed uh light pole because there's an existing one you can see over to the right on the ex on the path so you know we would benefit from some lighting that's proposed as part of that project but again we're not proposing any large scale flood lights or anything like that um as part of this this project so the everything you see on this plan again other than this rectangle in the Portland Loop footprint is something that's part of the the upcoming DPW streetcape project great do you have anything more to add in your in your Inu to this you know we did look at options early on we looked at you know effectively something like this or there are some pre-cast concrete Alternatives that might be out there that are probably are better fit for like campgrounds and parkgrounds and things like that you may have seen some of those around uh we did take a look at a you know completely custom built-in Place restroom facility and the real concern again came back to Public Safety and you know the the police and fire department really wanted something that was simple that could be easily monitored um and and controlled such that there were a minimum number of problems and if there was a problem they would be able to readily respond to it okay great um if I may ask a question and then I with it I'll turn it over to other members of the board um I'm curious about I was curious about the lighting so thank you for anticipating that I'm curious about um whether we could use solar if we adjusted the location and whether anybody has studied that I know this is not going to have a huge electrical draw but I'm also mindful that we have sustainability in mind and if it's a possibility that we should probably go for it um and then I'm also just want to put in a word for um and being mindful of the transition from the sidewalk to the concrete lab uh for accessibility purposes and making sure that that transition is level certainly on the solar topic and I fortunately Rob can you access the photograph that I sent out of the site um I can if not I'll jump off and I can I can find it in a moment I I didn't put it as part of the original submission so it's not in this packet um uh let me see I'm trying to look through what I have okay let me bear with me just a a photograph uh looking at the site um so you can see and it's a little tricky to see because you're seeing AutoCat symbols here but you know there's one existing tree over here to the I guess the south side of of the restroom facility there's another one here over to the north side um I'm not going to say that there's no solar exposure there but it's somewhat limited and I we certainly could look at that feature but have the the um utility connection as a fallback if necessary I just don't want to be in a situation where we install this and find out our batteries die in January and we get a freeze and we're we're breaking pipes at that point right um so I prefer to particularly since we also don't want to dig up the sidewalk after the fact we want to put everything in there that we need now um and have that ready um that's sounds like a reasonable compromise if you could just you know it's a matter of moving it 5et to the left so that you get more consistent exposure when the leaves are on the trees so Bob you did submit a picture of I guess the proposed location of where it's going to go right um it's just a photograph I mean the drb members have that in their packet um I don't know if you wanted one of us to screen share it so we could show it to everybody but is that what you want us to do do you want show that photograph okay if you could I think that presents a picture literally of the location which is let me just uh I'll do that real quick just give me one second okay can everybody see this oh says my there we go okay yeah that took a while that was weird so my screen share is loading all right now you can see the screen so screen or no yes we can okay okay sorry good we do let me move my where I have everybody the utility pole that you see in the Le hand side of this photograph is the effectively the North End of the restroom facility where the the doorway would would swing to the north um you know we do have you know what we're not directly under a tree but you know we do have some pretty you know significant tree covers to the north and south of of this site so I I just don't have a good feel will we have enough hours during the daytime to be able to get direct solar um coverage to the panels on the roof to reliably make it through the winter time I I but we certainly can if we can do the AL you know do both then that will help to ensure that we don't have the problem that I'm I'm concerned about particular in the winter time that's sound I think Pat's hand is up Pat go ahead yeah I Erica I I had the same concerns that you had in terms of accessibility Public Safety and um whether or not there could be some um Energy Efficiency and and so you know we're all familiar with the term hybrid because we have many vehicles that are hybrid and so I'm wondering it and I I don't know how this affects the cost of of this facility but I'm wondering if it could be hybrid so there could be solar to capture what what's possible and position to do that and at the same time have it hooked up to a dedicated electric unit that seems to make the most sense to me to optimize the the um green aspect of it but at the same time you know I I travel extensively and there are variations of this type of facility in many cities in Europe and I think that they're well used they're wellmaintained and they're welcome and so if if the public safety personnel in amorist and DPW and whoever else weighs in on it feels that they can manage its presence I think it's probably a very good addition to Kendrick Park thanks Pat I think yeah certainly the hybrid option to the extent that we can we will um and just thinking out loud the good thing is when my biggest concern is the winter there there's very little electrical loads in this facility you know it's so it doesn't require a lot of capability the biggest load is really the heat tracing in the wintertime um the you know the thermal load associated with that and the nice thing is there's no leaves on the tree in the winter time so perhaps we can benefit from that increased solar exposure in the winter time and my as an engineer I like to plan for what could go wrong and my concern is you know we could find out that we draw the batteries down if we get cloudy snowy days long duration in the winter time and and now have a problem where things freeze up and it's a much bigger problem but if we can find out a way to to do both why not it would make sense to to make it a hybrid situation and and you know engineering wise that we know that's quite possible right I agree Karen or Lindsay or Karen any Karen go ahead the the location was was chosen to have it be close to why was this particular location chosen right next to the road like that when you come in um accessibility and visibility um you generally don't want to put a restroom somewhere where it can't be seen where Public Safety officials can't drive drive by it and readily see um you know see the activity so it and the desire to minimize uh the intrusion into the Park area you know so it as opposed to pushing it in 10 or 20 or 30 feet um where we're you know taking away more park space we're putting it right adjacent to where is the existing Hardscape already it was really what drove that that uh desire heren did you raise the question because you have some concerns about the location or was it curios no I I just um I mean I don't think it's beautiful and uh you come that's this is the approach that I always take to the park and so it's yeah I I I understand that and um I respect that but you know and and safety all those things that does bring in it but in my perfect world it would be tuck into a nice landscaped area and wouldn't be visible because Aesthetics are important no I think that that's an important point and one of the things that we could think about is that the entrance like the cars now are moving um one way on the street and so we'll be seeing it from the back and if the majority of people are walking to it from town they're seeing it from the back I don't know if it's possible to rotate at 180 degrees if I'm reading this correctly yeah certainly could be rotated I think the thought right now was to have the entrance face the park uh to be more um conducive to to to use by folks that might be coming from the Park area but you know if there's a desire to rotate it around 180 de um it's you know that's definitely very doable it's it's always a trade off um you know anytime you do plantings anytime you do screening having spent a number of years in hoolio we would do great things at Parkland and the police department would ask us to cut them all down because they wanted to maintain visibility um so it's yeah huh Ken please yeah um I was just curious you had mentioned that at some point you would lock it down for the day of the evening I was just curious how you were thinking about that um it is on the edge of the University so just wondering the there's been internal discussions it it'll be somewhat of a policy decision to may be made I I think probably ultimately you know through the town administration of what hours to leave the rest room facility open too you know certainly during the daytime it's would be there to serve the park but it into the evening um you know certainly it would be beneficial to serve you know the folks that are coming through that area later at night um the discussions we had with Public Safety seemed to indicate there'd be a desire not to leave it open 247 have some period of time in the late evening that it would stay open to and then have the a automatic timed locks lock things down it and again I'm not I'm not going to suggest midnight 1:00 2:00 but it's some point where a decision is made you know that the the town no longer desires to provide access to people um and we'll shut things down and and you know reopen it automatically you know the next morning um but it wasn't to leave it un you know un or leave it fully accessible 247 there is a desire to lock things down at some point and I believe as I understand it that the DPW does that at uh some of the park facilities but those are typically shut down you know based on the park use hours not they don't they aren't encouraging people to use the parks into the evening whereas we know that that individuals do you know walk through these areas um into the late evening thank you may I do a quick screen share um looking at the materials that you provided their their brochure if you will and the one image if that's provided of the backside is rather the advertising branded is that something that we have to live with I don't think so no I think certainly we can do something better than that or it's nothing at all yeah that seems important um it's it's very eye-catching if you will and I think not very complimentary to our our beautiful Park Lindsay I know you haven't had a comment yet I see um Ken's hand but I want to give you a minute to think and jump in um Karen and then Lindsay I just have a quick question which is do these come in colors like red or something that would make it like a statement an architectural statement rather than such a utilitarian uh Portland U Lou my understanding is that they don't um and I believe it's a a finish that is very vandalism resistant very able to be cleaned maintained things like that um and I try to stay away from any sort of field painting of anything because the longevity of any type of you know coding that's not a manufactured applied coding typically is is nowhere as nearly as as good as what is is furnished with the unit but yeah I can ask that question but as far as I know at this point it's this is the standard finish in color that it's provided in thank you go ahead Lindsay um okay so I'm excited about the idea of having a public restroom and this location um a little hard to tell exactly how it fits on the site with just the one image provided um and how it works with the circulation exactly um I appreciate the documents you provided it just a little hard to really gauge the the way it will appear um with respect to the existing conditions um um so I feel like some of the questions that have already been raised around the graphic the Portland L graphic which appears on every sorry about that um goodbye as well as the color which was another question um yeah I I personally think i' I'd like to see it in some kind of rendering um just to get a better sense of how this really fits into the landscape and um before making any final decisions um and to get final word on whether or not that graphic is a necessity or if we can avoid that because I think that makes a pretty big difference um so am I understandingly that the sound will travel outside of this based on the way that it's open at the top and bottom yes it it it's not a soundproof enclosure so yes any yes because that as you know somebody who does given that it is I appreciate that it's close to the walkways but I don't know that could be a little bit problematic as well if you're approaching the park and um whatever is happening inside might not be something you want to hear um so yeah I have some concerns but I do like the idea and I think in certain contexts it actually doesn't look bad like some of the more urban contexts it looks fine with Hardscape but this isn't really that so it's it's just um I'm not confident that it will that we read as you know as well Karen yeah I know we've talked about that graphic the white and blue one I was wondering if it's possible to create a different graphic that could be added or adhered to the side I'm just wondering how do people know how is it identified is aou find the right document again and I will quickly so I see the okay traditional right indicator of um by the door of restroom facilities multi-gender and accessible I don't see like this one's branded on the front as well but it also says public restroom up at the top so you could add this to our our list of questions about the ways that it'll be signed we avoid the blue and white on the back but can we Again The Branding on the front this is the one that's going in Greenfield they have a different blue sign it appears that the text is on the top and I it can't tell what's on the door Cambridge Mass and then that other Park so right and is it necessary to identify it as the Portland Loop yeah I'll definitely get that that question answered I suspect it isn't but I want to make certain I give you a definitive answer thank you um Karen um something Lindsay said gave me an idea and I agree I think that in certain Urban settings it actually would work really well and not be such a jarring you know this we're trying to create this beautiful playground uh uh and the Aesthetics are wood and flowers and and children playing I wonder if one could look at the other side that's closer to the buildings uh on the sidewalk I also realized yes you have to have the police go by it has to be accessible but is that something that you considered at all to just put I mean you know if you're uh somebody with a child that has to go to the loop it's not that much further to walk to uh to the street over there on East Pleasant I'd love to sort of go around the park and see where with this it's going to be functional it's going to be a great addition I applaud that you found this I like all the positives but could we find a setting where it would be less jarring that's what I'm wondering I do think it's important to note that it needs to be on an accessible route and so that that's something that might limit its potential locations and I'm I'm guessing that on this side they're taking advantage of the road and infrastructure work that's happening and kind of rolling this in um forgive me Bob if I misspoke there but it's there's probably a component of it that has to do with the convenience of this particular project being underway I think that's definitely correct I can't at the moment rule out the other side it it may be possible I need to look closer at that okay so I'm going to take a minute to to sum up some concerns and then we can close out the conversation because it sounds like we're not going to approve this this evening and ask uh the town to come back so we ask that you look at other potential locations where it might this is such a loose term but fit in um a little bit more fluidly um and in so doing you might also look for better solar exposure um we're interested in avoiding the Branded graphics and would like to know how the town of amist will include a a signage to indicate that it is a public restroom um there was a question about other colors none of the other pictures have other colors so I'm guessing that's a no but we can ask the question um so those are those did I sum up our our lines of inquiry and then and then kind of expand on that with the question of once placed um will it will there be any landscaping or um other features so you want thing you left out was the I don't know if you mentioned this but possible hybrid option for the solar well it sounds like Bob already said that that's possible so it's like would be solar but then the electrical would be there as a adjust Cas yeah and then Lindsay had asked for a possible rendering to see uh where it could fit on site um and then the sign inches you mentioned The Branding as the Portland l i mean if it's possible that we can get away from that and then Rebrand it differently or maybe propose signage that could be different um or just explore other ideas that's that's a sense of what was discussed um from what I've heard I mean Lindsay has her hand raised I don't know if she wants to add something I just was yeah I just I guess it's maybe not the most critical point right now because we're not approving this but in terms of the slab being accessible that was something that was noted and as a final comment I just I gu guess I'd be curious if you what other what other types of facilities there are to consider if this is if this is the only one that you know exists or if there's you know a family of similar structures or or you know um public restrooms of this nature that we could consider um I just I'm not sure what the background is on why this one in particular but that might help us consider um you know something that that potentially does fit in this context better okay so Bob you have a short list of um important questions from us and I don't know if you could um back next month then we could approve it but I do think that um um a composite a render um collage call it what you will to show this onsite in the proposed location it would be helpful hey Bob do you have um do you have a tight timeline for for this project or is it something that could take a little bit to yeah process before it starts another month wouldn't be a deal breaker I have to get the planning board process started as well so you know that will overlap with this process process obviously um we do this is anticipated to be arpa funded so we do have a timeline relative to that and the um our ARA coordinator is trying to we we have a complete drop dead that the funds have to be committed by the end of this calendar year we basically have to have that money not necessarily spent but in a firm contractual relationship or we risk losing the federal funds um but she is trying to get us not not have everybody go to December 3 first of this year and and take that risk so she's trying to get us um committed sometime around the July time frame at this point so I yeah it's not there's a schedule but not um nothing that another couple of weeks would make a a huge difference on okay thank you great thank you thanks for your time thank you just for my information is there I've taken notes so I think I have everything uh written down that that I need to address is there is that the format that comments come back to me at this point or is there something that Rob puts together or is it strictly based upon not that you have to Rob I don't you need to don't need to I don't need to create any work for you um I just was wondering if I should expect something or just go forward with what I've I've taken for notes myself uh I mean it's up to you if you feel like a reminder email would be helpful um usually I only make a document of the official recommendations once the board votes to approve um but other than that I mean if you took good notes Bob you can rely on your own notes if you need to right and you and I don't far apart so we can we can compare notes as well we should also discuss the next date for the drb meeting um May 27th is a holiday so the next meeting would potentially be May 20th okay so that's when this meeting would take place again um does that work for the other members of the board May 20th as our next meeting dates yes yes okay perfect so Bob May 20th is is the continued date for this uh petition and I just double-checking yep that works perfectly fine with me so yeah okay awesome all right L than a month okay take care thanks M goodbye thank you okay cool thank you all for your comments there um the next item on the agenda is approval of meeting minutes from our last meeting and curiously um three of us here were present at the meeting that to those on my screen so many tabs there it is so this was a busy meeting so um it kind of goes outside the normal two-page range to four pages so I noticed yeah there's a lot of information that was being discussed it was hard to capture it all briefly so my apologies you did a great job they're thank you brilliant um so Lindsay was here and Karen winter was here um and so if I don't know perhaps Lindsay and Karen have already reviewed these and I don't need to do the slow scroll but I am scrolling as well actually I'm but yeah car is this helpful to you or should I let you read it on your own screen or what have you want to do this no it's it's helpful okay yeah thank you but you don't have to go that slowly because yeah I I think the biggest discussion we had from that meeting was about the Northtown common that was the project that took the most time because the design riew discussion was only like like 15 minutes or so um so yeah yeah I'll get to our recommendations yeah um maren I think you recommended some alternative to the crush stone for the common yeah I actually and I've been talking to Nate about that because I feel so strongly that asphalt is just gonna I don't know if we can avoid that so the oil and stone which I have a driveway um and it was not more expensive at the time than uh getting it paved which I never would have done we don't we don't plow it but it can be snow blown and walkways are snow blown so uh there's not not going to be a plow I don't think it's going to go or or at least it's possible to snow blown them so I think is interested possible consider using oil and stone yeah that's something that I'd really really like to have examined if that is a possible alternative it's here is the recommendation so I we'll hope that they actually I um I word it in a way where it wasn't like a requirement but it was more like if you if this is possible right if this is feasible could you consider it and I think Nate made it sound like that the maintenance cost might be too high for something like that so I don't that's for him to figure out but that's the impression I got right but I think he's revisiting it too okay yeah well I I appreciate that you're talking with Nate about it Karen Ken um I guess when I first saw it it was in the discussion point and it was noted that it Alternatives like Cobblestone or other durable materials um and that's fine I mean I know that that was brought up um and that the recommendation is accurately represented in terms of the material that that we discussed um and maybe I'm I'm not sure if I'm speaking for the group but I feel like we were we were definitely feeling strongly about it um and I understand that it may not be possible so I I I'm fine with the wording of if possible but maybe instead of consider using that we strongly support us something along those lines and be curious to hear other people's thoughts on that and funny thing if we're changing this line that I would say in lie of instead of over because over could imply a construction right like it's not a layer on top of yeah just taking notes of what you're saying so thank you right think I think one of the concerns was the the maintenance maintenance of it and they were told that this would be so much harder to maintain but I think in fact it is something that should be should really be examined because I think we all do feel and and I appreciate that Lindsay I think we should word it that we very strongly recommend that asphalt not be used if possible um and but that we can't make it a requirement because we realize that they have a budget that they have to stay in yeah that was that seemed like a big concern I think DPW pushed back against not using asphalt because the maintenance costs and I think their maintenance costs are not as high as they would like them to be for for parks and walkways so I think that's kind of the tricky situation but I definitely could reward that in the minutes um just so it reflects that thank you um yeah no problem Rob if you maybe you could think about um kind of reword the sentence while we finish our review and then we can Circle back to the rewording sure the next section um is uh for item 17 that ammer college signage I I was just trying to remember so with that the Amber bookstore font we we first were discussing the font style and then just said that if the style is their standard then it should just be a smaller size is that what we arrived at yeah it's the ammer college ammer College's font it's their word Mark and they added book so the proposal was like don't reinvent the wheel for right okay rebalance the the text and in fact it's installed now and it they did reduce the the race the white text on the background quite a bit we made a difference I don't know if you guys have seen it recently it's actually looking pretty nice they got their sign inch up they got the elephant um it actually came out pretty well I don't know if he had the chance to walk by that part of town yet yeah it looks nice okay I'm fine with everything else so let me um I did write a quick sentence Erica if you want me to read it about that uh Crush sorry the um oil and stone line on page two yeah go ahead go ahead sure so basically I wrote it out as um the drb strongly encourages the use of oil and stone in l of asphalt for the walking paths I guess that subtle change brings a different meaning in a way where that's preferred option um but at the same time you know you're give them the ability to to go with asphalt if funding only allows for that Karen and Lindsay does that sit well with you it's your proposed change um yeah but you know the the reason we mentioned oil and stone rather than cobblestones or any of those other things is that we thought that that was maybe going to be from the the cost uh a possib a perhaps a possibility but I guess maybe we want to or I think we all felt strongly that we really dislike the idea of the past being asphalt they look okay when they're new but in terms of upkeep they look horrible when they get old that's what we have in front of our house you know I don't know that's maybe not what we should do because we're concentrating on the minutes but yeah we can't re we can't re we just have to correct the minutes to reflect Our intention okay so I I like the the the way you did it Rob okay okay um the last portion of the meeting was a discussion about the design review criteria so again this is not our opportunity to have the the conversation about like tonight's conversation about the design review criteria this does this reflect the points that you made right at the last meeting I think that looks good yep okay all right then so um may I have please a proposal to approve the minutes as with with changes I move to approve the minutes with changes second a second right those of us who are voting ra your hands my time and I need to abstain because I was not there Karen Karen so to Pat and um Karen Blum abstained the rest approved thanks everybody um those are long minutes they aren't usually so expansive but this there were some good deep discussions okay um moving on uh question for the group and that is have you had the opportunity to read the document that Rob provided with the uh continued continued work on proposed language to the standards I do apologize for getting that so last minute I've had a busy week last week and was able to do them today but if the group feels that you need more time to review it and then we can discuss at the next meeting that's that's acceptable as well up to you I GNA propose that just because I know that Karen Blum is new to the group and has had so much of the background and I want to make sure that um we can fully engage her in this in this conversation so I thought I'd put the question out I mean if everybody's read and feels that they're prepared for tonight let's dive in but if you'd like to pause this until next month that we can tell you do that I I would like to pause it until next month thank you right because Pat you were away as as well it's true yes okay I would appreciate that okay and also I do want to note that um the document itself has the language of what's already there and then anything new is in Red so if it has a line through it that means you know we took it out red means it's new so just keep that in mind when you're reviewing it so you know I guess what the changes are and of course please provide any comments that are helpful or necessary I mean totally open to to incorporating that so our our goal here is to streamline and update the current list of nine drb design review standards is it nine is it 170 I don't remember um I don't know so do doing that with uh in mind with both um uh consolida um where those places where the language often feels redundant but then also acknowledging that we have some complex projects in our in our downtown so um if we could all do that as homework and then next week we'll or next month when we come back together on May 20th we'll be prepared for this conversation that would be fantastic okay great and Elliot will be up to speed she's taking notes she paying attention that's great okay well then um is that the last item on the agenda I believe so other other items we we discussed already the change of the date May 20th May 20th Yep because May 27th is a holiday believe it's Memorial Day um so we can't do it that day um but that's pretty much it I mean you already introduced Karen um can't think of anything else okay fantastic motion to adjourn so moved second okay have a lovely bye everyone thank you bye bye take care everybody bye