good afternoon this is the finance committee meeting on June 18th 2024 um we're going to hold this meeting virtually per many actions of the uh State um legislature and uh if you wish to make a public comment uh please uh raise your hand uh and we'll bring you in to give a comment so the first thing I'm going to do is is call the each member of the committee to make sure that you can hear me and I can hear you a Bernie present Mandy uh councelor hanii present Andy present Kathy I'm here uh councelor Walker here okay uh we don't have Matt he's been pretty busy these days um so I think we're ready to begin um why don't we start with public comment if there's anyone in the audience who wishes to make a public comment uh now is your time just raise your hand please I don't see any hands going up so I'm going to then close the public comment period and uh irin Michelle I I do want to apologize for you for uh last week um we spent I thought I didn't think it would take us that long to get through the discussion of the school track but we had another discussion last night the council meeting which was probably another hour or so uh so um it was a very hard uh discussion to have but uh I want you I want to focus us this meeting on the um ah report and uh the funding plan and there are four uh discussions that um or four issues that we want to discuss as a council um two of which I think uh go is going to take the lead on uh but the first two that the two that we can take the lead lead on um are uh what type of fund is envisioned in other words we had originally had talked about an endowment type fund but um there's obviously different options in the in the final report and uh can we accelerate payments into and out of the fund what what are the options that we have and how could we do that um the other two questions that I think go is going to focus on is what can we spend the fund on and what is the process for for spending from the fund um so I don't think we need to focus on that as much as what type of fund is envisioned and um can we accelerate payments into and out of the fund uh so uh I don't know if Michelle or Irv if you have any opening comments you wish to make Mr uh Irv I'm I'm happy to have you make any opening comments first unless you want me to jump in yeah why don't you do that uh I'm going to save my comments till later sure well Bob thank you so much and thanks to the committee and no worries at all was actually quite uh interesting to listen to the meeting last week um I guess what I would the question I come in with is if anyone knows where we are currently with the fund that would be really useful information so I think it's maybe in the $400,000 range um but that was certainly something I wanted to ask the committee um or perhaps Holly or whoever might have that information um and really yeah we we I think at this point it's important for for the finance committee and for the council to have a discussion based on the recommendations we made um I will highlight that I remain concerned about the Cannabis tax revenue being our model given where we're seeing a decline in that and I noticed in the budget the proposed budget this year that uh there wasn't ex anticipated cannabis numbers and I don't think there were numbers even from last year so I was curious why those were left blank in in the budget document that I saw um online so um at this point you know I have a recommendation for how I think we might want to you know consider moving forward but I recognize that uh this committee and and of course the council need to you know uh have that discussion so I'm happy to just sit back and listen at this point and then um jump in as necessary okay so uh Michelle I uh I did uh reach out to to Holly earlier today and um the um actually IFA can I share my screen so Holly has her hand raised okay Holly yep yeah so um Bob had reached out earlier today and I sent him the information on the current balance in the fund and sort of how we got there so I can quickly review that with you um and I also just want to respond to Michelle's comment Michelle correct Michelle's comment that the Cannabis um tax revenue is not in the budget document so the reason the Cannabis revenue is not budget it is because we're not using that Revenue as part of our budget we are basically taking that Revenue letting it fall to free cash and then doing a transfer in the subsequent fiscal year if I use the Cannabis Revenue as part of my budget it wouldn't be available to go to the rep reparations fund so there is no budgeted figure for it because we're technically not using it in our budget we're we're keeping it as an unbudgeted amount and then doing that transfer in a subsequent fiscal year so right now the balance in the fund um you know basically as of today's date is$ 476,000 in the um uh cannabis tax so in fy22 we transferred that into the reparations stabilization Fund in fy22 we collected 134,135 330 dollars that we transferred in FY 23 and FY 24 it was 105 537 so so far this fiscal year we've only um so far this fiscal year we've only collected um approximately $58,000 uh there is one more quarter that will come in I would guess we'd probably you know end up maybe around $70,000 this year it just depends on what that fourth quarter comes in at I can't I can't really guess but I would say maybe 70 maybe a little more um so then that would get transferred in through a Town Council vote after free cash is certified this fall that would um assuming that Town Council approves the transfer and continues on with the um you know the the policy that we have in the past then that amount would be transferred in um what we collected in FY 24 would be transferred into the fund in fy2 once free cash is certified yeah so what I've done is I've taken now those um figures Holly and and Michelle and put them into a spreadsheet just to kind of do some scenario analysis and I assumed that we'd get 75,000 this year um and just kept that you know level for for uh going forward and assuming we just acre um in the first the first option we just ACR the Canabis tax until we reach 2 million um and we get some return on investment we reinvest the money I just put it put down at 5% which may or may not be realistic but um and the 75,000 may not be realistic going forward but assuming just we just do that looks like we hit two million somewhere around FY uh 2036 okay and at that point if you assume that you pull four 4% out uh as you go forward um you can see the um the stream of of money that's actually available and I carried it out to 2050 and so in that scenario it's 1.7 million that's available but it's not available until fy3 6 37 in that time frame um in the second scenario which is one of the options except we can't get we don't have 100,000 to to go but if we you know just starting with this we we just you know if we have 75 if we put 25 towards the fund and 50,000 as a distribution and then run the same numbers um we kind of come up with about 1.8 million in uh in distributions although they obviously start a lot faster uh start a lot earlier and at the end the fund is obviously bigger um in the first scenario because we haven't really tapped it as much uh in the but uh in the second scenario the fund you know gets to above 3 million um by the time you're there now again these are just hypothetical scenarios but uh Michelle and Irv and everyone it gives people gives you a sense of what the tradeoffs are in terms of you know kind of building the fund um slowly with the with the Cannabis tax versus um you know using some of the money uh from the Cannabis tax uh tax to to do distributions early uh early than um than you would normally so that's kind of the two scenarios that I just did a quick and dirty on um obviously there's other scenarios uh that have been um put in the report uh you know in terms of funding the um the uh the the reparations fund um either a lump Sun fund or you know funding it um you know basically Over a four-year period of time so um we can we can certainly you know model that out but it you know that's just those are things that would require us to tap into reserves um so um I haven't really looked at that uh any uh Kathy did you have some comments uh yeah can everyone hear me yes okay um right I'm not in the town room so I don't have to do the mic um so when we were discussing this what last fall another option and I'm not going to attempt to do what Bob is very nicely done would be an option three where as he's done it that we are each year the the fund or let me step back the distribution could be every other year for starter rather than every year so it would be in a it would be a larger amount and you could be Distributing part of the earnings of the fund as well as what Bob just did with not put the whole cannabis tax and put a piece of it and so it it will be drawing down on the base somewhat it would not build up as much so as in option two it doesn't treat it as an endowment it treats it as an amount of money that can be spent but it would continue to accumulate over time so it's just a um another way of potentially saying you know year one year three year five is a distribution rather than annual so in the alternate years you put the full cannabis tax in in the distribution years you put part of it so it's just there's another way if the distribution for example 50 looks too low this would be uh have a larger distribution potentially but do it in an every other year basis so in a way over on the other side of what are we spending it on there would be a budget um that you would know in advance so that's just that's one other piece reminding people that we started thinking of some ways if you're not treating it as an endowment that we could proceed I don't whether that's completely clear but it it's it's a variation on option two where we're spending some of the base but a small so you could say no more than 5% of the base you know or something small yeah I I just used 4% so that we wouldn't you know we wouldn't be running the principal down but again you could you could do whatever percent you want you could do whatever that you're trying to leave most of the principle there um but you're using some of the the gain to combine with a share of the annual contribution so it's it's just a variation on what Bob has an option to councelor hanii so I was not part of the Fall discussions um and so I'm coming into this I guess partway through but I went back to the KP law opinion that we just got um and there's a lot of options there that it sounds like from Bob your just summary right now that we're not even going to consider or have a discussion about I mean there's a lot of options that maybe I would never recommend but shouldn't we be discussing the options in the KP law opinion too instead of just sort of already limiting ourselves to these two options that came from one counselor without much prior discussion at all I feel like um but I could you know like I said I missed the prior discussion that resulted in the KP law opinion that we received um on May 10th um no I wasn't intending to to limit discussion on anything okay so feel free to I I guess then I'm I'm curious how we want to proceed with this discussion um because you know I have I have a lot of thoughts on each individual option um but jumping around seems like a very hard thing to do because there's so many differences and pros and cons in my mind with each option and then I have questions about the overall issue um of I'll stick here with with a distribution that starts next year as we build the fund um because that option is similar to option two I guess here although option two is is sort of just a as Bob said a an illustration of what something like this might look like um we have no mechanism for Distributing right now in terms of other than a vote of the council for something but no mechanism for how the council would come to a proposal to spend the money um the reparations report had some things about what they'd like to do that when I read it really appeared to me to be Social Services focused not necessarily reparations focused in the traditional idea of reparations and there didn't seem to be a a a big push in the reparations report to seek the special state laws the special acts that would require that would be required to be a more traditional reparations and so something like option two are we really just aiming to create something that is adding funds to ex social Services Program that happens to help youth um or happens to help firsttime home buyers uh no matter their their um you know lowincome first home time firsttime home buyers and and something with option two or even you know this option of a distribution on an annual basis that only spends the the interest as it were the income I have concerns about that simply because in general this is we we don't tend to think about our Town's tax revenues as sitting in a bucket never to be spent um and that's what a plan for sort of a similar to an endowment fund is taking tax money now and never spending it holding it which in some sense increases the tax burden on our tax residents indefinitely because we're never going to spend it um and that is a discussion I think we should have as to whether that's something we want to do is say we're going to take your tax money and then not spend the principal ever um because that that's that's a huge decision in my mind Kathy uh yeah Mandy I realized you weren't part of the Fall discussion but we did get into this that um at least we were leaning toward don't think of it as an endowment which is where you're going you know be be able to start spending it I mean clearly we and then the other there were other discussions on what would be the process but but where where you were going is both for for multiple reasons I mean the it doesn't have to to be an endowment it was suggested it could be um way back when but I think many of us thought don't treat it as an endowment and then the question is um to what extent are you spending down some of the accumulation or not you know how much are you doing some for the new contribution so that's where I also wanted to say it could be every other year and the one other thing I just want to say because you weren't on the committee is we thought of a it could be a process similar to the community preservation act where there's a certain amount of money each year with a the following some agreed on set by the council categories could be supported so it would be but but it would be a budgeted amount each year rather than you can just spend the whole accumulation so that's this is sort of a midpoint in a discussion we started to have but we didn't get very far than toying with some and that's and the KP law is sort of talking to that I mean first you have to you do it some point have to decide what you're willing to spend it on and what that process is but it's what stream of money would be available either on an annual or a biannual basis and we were moving away as a group from thinking an endowment made sense as opposed to spending some some of each Year's contribution and spending some amount of the accumulated funds rather than trying to preserve it so that I just want to say that that was we didn't get to what that might look like um you know so I think we could technically spend down the whole amount if you want to spend it all down you know the the amount flowing in is capped at 2 million so I I just want to say that Bob's piece is building off of a discussion we started to have with without reaching a conclusion yeah again I was just trying to illustrate two options I wasn't saying that these are the only options uh Andy yeah actually think that um what you did was very helpful uh if we go back to the beginning when uh Sean Mangano was Finance director and he suggested he suggested it as an endowment um and I the theory was that U we would try and accumulate within a reasonable period of time um I think that at that point we were thinking higher uh return from Cannabis Revenue but that we would try and get to $2 million and treat it as an endowment and be able to make regular expenditures from it uh you know and it's evolved over time because uh there's been so many changes as noted the uh change in cannabis tax being um a major one second is the ah um desire not to wait too long to start having some annual programs um so I think we we do need to think through through this um again is to whether we are in fact thinking of changing any of the basic concepts that the goal is to get $2 million and uh we expend money beforehand how do you account for that um you've uh and I guess the other thing that um other communities in Michelle is really our expert on this but um you know other communities have uh tried to deal with the question of how do you have a reparations program U or something you call a reparations program and feeling that it's meeting the spirit of reparations um and a lot of communities uh um are doing it with um Social Services uh programs if you want want to call it that but things like housing support uh recognizing that housing is an area that has been particularly difficult for families that uh because of ongoing discrimination have not been able to purchase houses and um build equity and therefore are forever in the loop of paying rent um so those are the sorts of things that I think uh we probably need to work with h to Grapple with to find out what is the best uh solution here and what is the town able to commit to it and should commit to it which is the recommendation partly that look to a finance committee to do thank you Andy uh councelor walker uh thank you Bob so I think a lot of the things that we're talking about don't necessarily need to be decided in order to look at the question that's in front of us today um things like how the council would like to spend the money um and mostly because we still need the successor committee to be able to make those decisions um and I think that and please someone from the ah correct me if I'm wrong but I think that what came through is that we would like the successor committee to have an idea of what their funding source is and how we will be contributing to it in order for them to make decisions as to how and what more specifically um they will be spending the funds on and so I think you know as a council we've already committed to the funding so at this point we're just considering how to get the money into the fund I think that's the only question that's in front of us um personally I think we should be making a contribution every single year and I think we should be allowing the successor committee to make recommend recommendations to us as to how they want to spend the F the funds when we get to that point I do recognize we don't even currently have the successor committee um assembled yet but I'm hoping that we can also encourage the town manager to do that as soon as possible so that we can you know continue to move forward on this piece um and with that being said I'm I'm concerned I do have concerns about the Cannabis tax and possible fluctuations um in what is available to us and therefore what we can contribute um and I think our contribution needs to be consistent and that might make it easier for the successor committee to plan and come up with uh their recommendations I'm just taking notes here so um councelor hanii so the kpw opinion gave us options that did not rely on free cash or other stabilization funds to fund this quickly yet I've heard no one talk about using those options and I don't know whether the committee knew of those options back in October or whether those options are new and should we have that discussion or has the committee already sort of said no to some of those options and that cannabis is where we want to stay um and then I'm still confused as to the but we don't have to know how we're spending it now and and some of the other things said because a lot of the options for funding in terms of meeting the council's prior votes if we're going to stick by those votes um rely on determining whether there will distributions will start sooner rather than later and how much those distributions will be and if we don't have a mechanism to distribute right now how do we figure out some of these other questions about funding with that unknown and then in terms of the the you know call it what you want endowment not endowment it sounds like there's discussion of having this account be funded through taxpayer funds for up to $2 million and then having it go on indefinitely although maybe Kathy's indication was that it would not go on inde indefinitely like an endowment and so then the question becomes at what year are we aiming to spend it to zero and I haven't heard that discussion either because if it's never intended to be spent to zero and the fund is never intended to go away completely that that I think I think it all goes into the discussion as to what our recommendation would be on where the funds come from because there are one-time options we could do to fully put 2 million in potentially well the the from my reading of the KP law opinion with a vote of the people on a ballot initia on a ballot election the people could decide to raise their taxes to fund $2 million one time time into this account and then the taxes would go back down the next year and then we could be done with the funding and then we could get to what councelor Walker was talking about as to distribution labor later but but be done with the funding portion but that doesn't seem to be on people's minds so I guess I'm still floating in the dark a little bit councelor Walker H um yeah I understand uh Mandy's Joe's concerns in term in terms of determining um funding and needing to know the distribution schedule but I think you can also look it on the flip look at it on the flip side like in order to determine what kind of distributions you'll be making you might want to know how much money you'll be getting how often and from where and I think that that's the way that at least the ah has brought this to us and so I'm trying to look at it through that lens because I think that's the lens they were looking at it in when they brought to us their recommendations um and so I think those spending recommendations can come later on but if we as a committee can say that we are willing to commit to however much money annually coming from just for an example free cash that that will give the successor committee a better idea to determine like okay so do we think we can start spending on certain initiatives in year four do we think we need to wait do we want to spend ever spend the account down to zero and I think those are the kinds of recommendations that I think we would get from the successor committee so I think that again today like we should just be looking at what our options are and determining what makes the most sense in terms of our contribution to the fund um and so just bringing it back again to some of Mandy Joe's comments I'm wondering if it's possible because I haven't looked at that KP law opinion and so I like in a little bit now and I can't quite remember what all of the options are I don't have it in front of me and I don't know if the one that you just referenced you're interesting interested in discussing but I would suggest that if there are any specific options from the KP law opinion um Mandy Joe or any other member of the finance committee is interested in that they put it on the table now so that we can sort of discuss it and look at it and not just have these two options in front of us unless nobody wants to consider those then I think we should just look at these um but I think I would like to get into more of a discussion about just the funding as opposed to the spending Bernie yeah what I'm going to say sounds similar to some other folks who said I don't have a copy of the KP law uh memo and I spent a few minutes here rumaging through all of my saved documents looking for it I simply don't have it I'm just a reminder that I'm not part of the SharePoint because it doesn't like me so stuff shared that way doesn't get to me um but the point is is that the the the commitment was made to come up with $2 million uh the other commitment that I supported advocated for was to use the Cannabis money um my interest there was to have a peg that you know we have a funding source that recurs every year um that people could count on to some degree we know it's going to appear we don't know how much money but we know it's going to be there so there wouldn't be debate any debate or discussion about where do we take the money to make our burn payment now if we look at what the the Cannabis tax is doing and using Bob's t and I agree with Council Walker that we right at this point the goal is to get the2 million and how do we do it over what period of time and what are the mechanisms for it so if there's other mechanisms that were outlined in the KP law memo then we should really be talking about that but we have Bob's projection that if we just rely on the Cannabis tax which is one option that's perfectly okay it might not be satisfying in terms of speed but it's perfectly okay um we get to $2 million in 2036 now what happens to that money in between because the successor commiss committee decides it's going to spend some of it we don't know and in some ways we don't care what our concern is is how do we accumulate $2 million that can then be used for purposes of reparations that's the goal so uh I'm in interested in hearing what other options there are I will continue to advocate for use of the the Cannabis tax and build the fund up it's not going to be it doesn't have to be a Perpetual fund it has to be built up to $2 million and then um at that point it's kept Kathy uh yeah Bernie I just wanted say one thing about um the contribution was C at 2 million so if the fund is growing we're not cap you know so in other words we said we will contribute until we've contributed two million so I just that's correct yes to come up with two million it's a new it's a Nuance but I just forwarded to everyone the KP law one I mean people aren't going to have time to read it but the kinds of options that Mandy was referencing is they were saying with you have said it's kind of AB CX it could come out of free cash you know it there you you could make another source this is what you've decided so far then they did U make a strong statement is that unless we get legislation we can't distribute it to individuals um so it's you know s the purpose of it then they went through because the the original report had suggested uh Community preservation act funds or cdbg funds and they didn't actually draw a conclusion but they gave a list of what community preservation act funds could be used for that basically said this wouldn't this isn't right now it isn't a use that could be allocated they didn't Mandy I'm looking for they mention cdbg but they don't say oh CB dbg maybe so they didn't say refer to that so they were talking about what else could we do um so the the the decisions to date were cannabis fund until we hit a contribution of 2 million um and that's where we were last year and my understanding just Elicia is all of this the council is going to be have to be the one that actually votes Appropriations and votes expenditures so we can't just de just like CPA the community preservation act process doesn't allow that committee to distribute they have to have some guidelines and then come with recommendations so I've been assuming that the process would be something like that because to pull money back out of these it has to be um appropriated with votes so at some point down the line whatever whether it's annual by anual um so that's another it's a process of spending rather than what options we might come up with um that we could starting is it an endowment or not and then Mandy as you said the do we just fund it all at once and not and forget cannabis tax and that was um and and how one we might do that given the Straits the town is on in right now um your suggestion if we go out with an override to rizon we don't have that kind of bucket of money to just pull it out um and fund it all at once so I don't think that's a good idea but so it's just it's a the nuances here are Finance was supposed to come up with start with the concepts ah had suggested and say here are multiple ways of looking at it and at some point therefore we recommend and the recommendation would be based on some pro and con of different approaches that is that is what I understood we were supposed to do and then we send it back up to the council so we are supposed to be decision makers here on the range of options and then come up with a a preferred one based on some reasoning not today I'm not saying we come up with it today but we at least get on the table thoughts about what that might look like yeah uh Council yeah so Bernie and Matt you'll get it twice from Kathy and I um it was sent in an email to us it was not in a packet today for some reason um but some of the options that were discussed there using mgl chapter 40 section 5B that allows a Town Council I'm quoting from page three maybe page three of the KP law opinion allows the Town Council by a 2third vote to dedicate without further appropri all or percentage not less than 25% of a particular fee charge or other receipt to any stabilization fund established pursuant to this section so one option KP law identified and then later on the next page indicated that um cannabis taxes are considered a a cannabis receipts are considered a a a particular fee charge or receipt that would be allowed this section 5B use so one ition that KP law identified was taking a vote by 2/3 to dedicate the Cannabis tax either 25% or up to 100% any percentage in the middle that to go to the reparations fund that would be a vote that would be taken once and then it would not it would automatically fund according to this it would automatically the fees would automatically be credited to the stabilization fund so unlike how we're operating now with cannabis and letting it fall to free cash and then making an appropriation every year from free cash to the fund at at each council's desire each year a vote to under this local option would do it automatically and I believe indefinitely although I have questions about whether a future council could un option that tax essentially un option that option and say you know we're not going to automatically do this now um that was one option KP law identified um another one um was under that section 5B mgl chapter 40 section 5B creating is the they said it was the creation of a special purpose stabilization fund pursuant to an override if approved by the voters at at a poll each year the Town Council would have the option by a 2third vote to appropriate to the override stabilization fund up to 2 and a half% of what it had last appropriated the year before and so as KP Law's opinion on the top of page four said this option would allow the council to immediately fund the stabilization account in the amount desired as long as it passes at the polls with the ability but not the obligation to raise equal amounts of funds for such purposes in the future so that's another option although as councelor Shane said there are cons to that option being that it is it requires a vote at the polls and raises taxes just like a debt exclusion override does but potentially only raises those taxes for one year or if you wanted to not do a full 2 million or a one and a half million in one year you might be able to do a half million every year and do it for three years and then the council in 3 years from now could potentially say no but maybe when we figured out what might be going on it could be done again there's a lot of options that go along with that option that could be discussed um those were some of the two bigger things that became sort of automatic funding well not for the for the one it's not quite automatic um but for the other one you know different ways that we hadn't been thinking back in October I believe that weren't on our our radar that haven't been discussed that I think Merit at least a discussion given the ah's desire to fund this quickly um because you know at least the override CA stabilization fund I don't think I can I I'd like to hear other supports for using more than just cannabis taxes out of other revenues for this because I'm looking at our needs un Capital our needs for operating revenues and operating expenses and so I have a very big hesitation of doing anything other than cannabis on a year INE out basis um to fund this because of those other needs uh councelor Walker um yes I have a couple of questions uh this may be a question for Holly or whoever else might know the answer but right now what happens to uh the monies generated by the Cannabis tax funds as they come in would you like me so the Massachusetts law says that the Cannabis tax is a general fund Revenue so it goes into a a revenue line in the general fund um it cannot go anywhere else except to the general fund at this point in time and then basically what we do is we let it fall to free cash and we transfer it in the subsequent fiscal year after free cash has been certified um okay and I have another question for Bob and sorry Bob I didn't just have uh enough time before the meeting to fully review this chart that you put together um and so I'm just wondering if you can explain why the contribution numbers are as is well the sorry okay so if you look at uh these these three rows these are the ones that we've had in the past so those are exact amounts that we contributed um and as Hol mentioned the the revenues from C from Cannabis through the third quarter were only about $60,000 so we're we're not going to hit over $100,000 this year unless something you know miraculous happens so I just made the assumption that we would get roughly 75,000 going forward and that would be the amount that was available from the Cannabis tax okay um and so in this scenario the first one I just took all of it and put it into the fund and then when the fund reached 2 million um we started pulling money out of it okay that's just one scenario the second scenario was again starting with what we already have contributed um instead of putting 75,000 into the fund I put 25,000 into the fund and 50,000 I assumed was a distribution somehow it's just it's just a scenario um it's just to kind of get an idea of what kind of spending money down fast or faster would would do in in overall you know overall for the the fund itself and for looking at it now I have the fund ACR more than two million maybe you know we we could spend it all down after 10 years or something like that there you know this is just this is just you know a quick and dirty scenario uh to just give people a sense of what it might look like on the one hand to kind of accumulate a certain amount you know for in this case it's for you know uh it's over uh 13 15 years that's probably too long uh we could accumulate it faster but the point is that you know when once we've accumulated it you know then the question becomes how quickly do you want to spend it um and in this one you spend it sooner um over a longer period of time but it's less money each year so it's it's you know really those are that's that's what I was trying to get at for this uh and again this these are just scenarios there there there's no it doesn't as Kathy mentioned you could do a either every other year you could do every two years uh you know it it it there's all sorts of ways to structure this um this was just to try to get some feel for what it would look like if we funded it only using cannabis and then we did something where we first funded it and then started spending it versus we spent as we as we were funding along okay is that clarified I I think Bob in as I understand your option two initially you're spending part of the Cannabis tax every year until you hit we've hit our two million then you're starting to spend the earnings on the Reserve at a a draw on it so that's why it starts to be 57 58 59 so that's the you've assumed a 4% draw on the base or whatever you assumed in that correct yeah that's correct M yeah if you look at the formula it's well up up here here it's 4% y with good formula okay and then so so the numbers are just sort of assumptions placeholders that would be generally around that amount we assume to get an idea of what the projections might be but those numbers could be higher or lower and any given year absolutely I mean the the first the first three years we know so we know that amount uh what was uh generated um and then we know the the current amount right now those are the those are the things we know the rest is just speculation okay sorry I just have two more comments at the end but those questions were helpful for me into just understanding what exactly it is that we're looking at considering here um so again part of my concern with using or relying just on the Cannabis tax is that we don't know what the numbers be and so like any year we've seen we've seen continuous decreases and that could continue it could not continue but I think it's it's hard to get a good idea and project into the future um which is my concern with that and so considering that and again correct me if I'm wrong with my understanding here that when the Cannabis tax eventually if it's not used in the general fund Falls to free cash anyhow so I would prefer looking at free cash as an option since the money is going to fall there eventually anyways and I would like to as a committee come up with a number that we would like to consistently fund because I think that that would provide some kind of stability um and Assurance to the successor committee which would allow them to make a very concrete plan to move forward um and so the way that I would like to address this is to pick a number that we're okay with contributing again personally I would like to do annually I know that that's up for discussion here but a number that we would like to contribute an annually and that that money could come from free cash um and it could essentially be the Cannabis tax that fell into Free Cash Plus whatever the deficit is to get us to the number that we had agreed to um if there is even one um and I just think I would be not willing to ask for a tax override in this specific position I think it's sort of counterintuitive considering the purpose of reparations and the pursuit of equity to then ask people to raise their taxes more than we absolutely need to okay so Alicia or councelor Walker I just I just said let's let's assume that we we put a we we contribute $100,000 annually okay on on just on the first scenario so we hit the 2 million Mark about three years quicker okay so just that that's just one again one one scenario um we if we wanted to go say 200,000 we could get to to 2 million by 2030 okay so that's why that's one of the reasons I I did this spreadsheet so people could you know get some some feel for the numbers and what it what the impacts of changing these numbers are um in terms of how quickly we can accumulate uh money and how quickly we can you know what what's available for distribution if you want to distribute it quickly or more more uh soon rather than later uh Andy yeah um I'm having a trouble maybe and maybe it's a having a lapse on what to do with Excel but when I go down to um cell c19 which is uh the the bottom one one below and then I do auto sum um and so that I'm getting the sum total of C4 through c18 right what are you getting uh 1.3 about one 1.35 million now I mean that if you're arguing that we we should contribute more we can do that that's that I just got to the point where the I just again I just I just put it in so I just stopped when when I when we had two million in the fund I didn't look at what we you know should we contribute two million and not worry what's what's in the fund um you know that that's something we can we can talk about what is what was the intent originally I think I thought I I thought it was to contribute two million I thought it was to contribute two million correct I just to be you to be honest with you I didn't I focused on this two million and not the sum of that two million yeah I just wanted to point that out because we have to decide what it m what we're recommending the end point be based upon consistency with the original um agreement that the council had made and if it was to get to $2 million do then you then you're not there unless you continue to make contributions for enough additional years to get there and it does been change what we're doing so it it's a uh it's just something I an additional piece that we need to come to grips with is what was meant by the $10 million was until we got to a balance based upon um the the amount of Interest AC crew and part of the reason that I come to that is that if our one of our goals is to start spending money earlier than we are then um there is an argument to be made that that's not inconsistent with um still trying to get to the point where we have contributed over the period of years that it takes to get to a $2 million transfer into the fund and I I can you know I can argue it both ways because for for the obvious reasons but I think that they've already been argued because we know that the town has multiple demands upon extremely limited resources and we're suffering through that on a continuous basis and uh we know that our we're going to be talking about schools a little bit later in the agenda and uh we know that the schools have been struggling with this question so it's a uh is a something that I think we we ought to make to recognize as part of the mix of issues that we've got to cope with I I agree um just s to point out the the total that we've actually contributed is about 400 you look at the sum down here it's about 450,000 and yet we have 477,000 in the fund so we've already acred some interest um into the fund itself so which then gets to the question of uh whether the successor committee should be able to spend some of the interest that CRS at an earlier date or spend it you know spend it spend more of the the principle as well you know um it really I mean there's there's all sorts of scenarios I just I just put this here so people could s sort of play with I appreciated and the obviously the spreadsheet was very helpful because it helped me think through that issue too as to what was our original goal and I would have to go back and look at the motion that Council passed at the time that he created the fund to refresh my recollection to make sure that I have it I have the recol recollection correct that whether the goal was to to get to two bance or was it to get to to the contined annual transfers equivalent to the um cannabis tax until we got to the point where we have contributed $2 million to the fund I don't I think that the Gap is that we didn't think about this issue at the time right I don't remember precisely I mean I have the sense that you have that we agreed to to fund 2 million but I don't know that we worded it in such a way that that's correct okay uh so we'll have to check that out anything else Andy okay I come back if I have more all right Council hanii so a couple of questions on Andy's line of thinking which is on on your spre sheeet just just to get an idea on the spreadsheet you didn't actually take the distribution out of the fund total in your calculations I don't believe you never subtracted the distribution from one of the fund totals um and it would need to be subtracted not until after we finished contributing so if you look at here no it still goes up though um and it's going up I think but but no the the formula doesn't ever subtract the distribution it doesn't have a j in it anywhere um well and on either side but um my you know so I I think these are showing numbers that that that are slightly misleading but but that that's I appreciate the the the spreadsheets but but my question is on this option two when we talk about how much the prior vote was to contribute to the fund and how I guess you know what councelor Walker and all have said is we should be figuring out how to get to that 2 million and by what day we want to get to the 2 million if we start distributions early that exceed the income on the fund total doesn't don't we still have to put money into it and so the the difference between when you it if if you're contributing say cannabis if there's cannabis tax of 75,000 a year and you want to put that in and there's multiple ways we can do it which we still haven't talked about um although councelor Walker and I have have talked about sort of the two options um you get to a 2 million contribution sometime around 2045 no matter how you choose to distribute it because you you still have to get you still count that 20 that 75,000 every year even if in option two you're choosing to distribute 50,000 of it correct in any given year you've still contributed 75,000 right correct yes um so so in your spreadsheet H should actually be 75,000 while J column J still reads 50,000 because you're still contributing it and that's where you have to remove the distribution from the fund total at the end of the year to to get a a truer sense um well it's the same math the math is exactly the same you you want it to to just you want it you want it to the columns to be different but the math is the same I'm not sure it is because your fund total is taking 5% but your distribution is then taking 4% out but you're never so so your fund total once you start doing the income should only be increasing by 1% not four 5% according to your sheet but we can argue that from all it's worth but if we're trying to figure out when and how we get the contributions to 2 million if we stick with can cannabis revenues only and assume that they will will steady out at about this year's rate and that's a big assumption as councelor Walker has said we we've just been seeing decreases we don't know where it's going to sort of flatten out um 204 that's correct 2045 is when we get to 2 million in contributions that's correct I believe the initial vote was 2032 was the goal and so counselor Walker says that her preference would be to add money every year above the Cannabis tax presumably so that you can get to contributions of 2 million by 2032 but we haven't talked about the ahra's request to actually accelerate those contributions even earlier um that's where the special the special stabilization override fund comes in as a possibility I will say I am concerned about using free cash to fund free cash Beyond any cannabis which is why I actually think adopting chapter 40 section 5B might that that automatically transfers the Cannabis Revenue to this stabilization fund might might be an option I favor because using we cannot count on free cash as being available in any one year and we have been using that free cash to build up our Capital stabilization funds in order to build a fire station and a DPW building and frankly I believe the fire station DPW building are more important to the residents in this town than the reparations fund well if you wanted to get it to be a million a $2 million contribution um we would buy 2032 we would have to come in around 195,000 going forward that's total sum is no there we go sum is 2 point it's just over two million so that that's kind of what you'd have to do which is I mean that's fine I mean that's a that's that's another scenario but that that again that that I wanted to put this together so we we have have this information if that's what we want to do Bernie yeah um to go back to a point that uh councelor anaki raised um uh I'm I'm not a constitutional lawyer I'm not a lawyer of any kind I'm just a policy walk um but a legislative body can't bind the actions permanently bind the action of a future legislative body so if this Council voted to adopt chapter 40 uh section 5B and say 100% of the Cannabis funds would go to the reparation fund then that stands so long as that this Council or another Council doesn't vote to resend it okay so that's none of the stuff is Caron still uh it's all on word processor uh and again the goal goal is to get to $2 million if we get to $2 million because we put money uh from the Cannabis tax into the stabilization fund and the stabilization fund is earned interest then the interest earned goes towards that two million that's the goal and again the reason why I favored continue to favor pegging this to the Cannabis money is it relieves us of the debate as to where the funds come from now I understand perfectly well um and I've been there believe me uh that people would like to know exactly what they're getting every year but Municipal funding doesn't always work that way um but you know that there is a steady stream of of Revenue you know what you have in the bank so to speak you know what the the fund total is and you can begin to work in that so uh it it all um depends on a future committee how willing they are that committee is to uh defer spending the funding and how willing the council is to approve the actual expenditure but my I'll just continue to say I I I want to hold us to using the Cannabis money to fund it thank you Kathy um I I agree with what Bernie just said I think cannabis was a good choice I it is yes it's not as stable um it's like uh cigarette tax money those who depended on it and when we stop smoking turned out not to yield as much um but I I think we have to be really careful about any higher obligation if we think of what we just went through for the Regional School System you to obligate ourselves in the future to taking a bigger share of think of free cash as could be operating money at some point I mean we just really have to be careful and cannabis jumped off the page originally to us because we were kind of accumulating it rather than spending it even though it was technically going into the general fund it hadn't been allocated to particular pieces so um you know as Mandy pointed out if to get if we're talk whatever how we're saying is it is it a 2 million total contribution or to build it up to 2 million it will take longer to get to a contribution of 2 million if the yield is only 75 a year as Bob is showing but I think we need to stick with something like that if it's um that I would be incredibly uncomfortable I'm looking at FY next year's fiscal year looks like a huge stretch um for Regional Schools for the elementary schools um and we were already hearing about staffing issues and other operating budgets so if we're discovering that we're uh being too conservative and getting a higher free cash every year I a better use of it might be to put it into operating budgets but I I'm I'm even cringing on that um you know when I and and we we're just so short of the revenue flows that are coming into the town right now unless something wonderful happens at the the state where suddenly the state actually starts paying for some of the items so cannabis is not yielding what it was but it is yielding it's a substantial amount of money that would accumulate so it just the one other point Mandy when um I don't know I didn't go to Bob's out years but in his option to he was only Distributing a share of the Cannabis money he wasn't Distributing anything off the base so it's not until as you said it's not until he gets to that 4% go going out um so the base just keeps going up by whatever the interest earnings and um right now 5% is probably not a bad assumption but we we've been higher and we've certainly been lower for yields so I think we have to take we as the finance committee have to be thinking about this in terms of the larger budget we can't just be focusing on this set of issues thanks councelor Walker um thank you uh so I am not opposed to using the Cannabis fund I would be concerned about relying on it to be the only source funding this fund considering its fluctuation and considering our goals of uh meeting the 2 million and by a certain deadline and I know we're not you know we can be off but I think 2045 is significantly off and we've received a request to expedite and so I think that I would like to see maybe uh us consider a combination of things um and so again I would like to pick a number that we're looking to contribute on an annual basis and so if we're going with the 100 um 195k that Bernie put in that gets access to what our original goal was um that maybe we can say something like we are going to contribute a minimum of 195k annually until 2032 100% of the Cannabis fund will be moved to the reparations fund with the recommendation that was given to us by KP law and then we can debate where the additional or remaining funds can come from but that would also have to happen knowing what percentage of that is going to be contributed from the Cannabis fund so um it does make it a bit more complicated but I think that this is a critically important decision and discussion because we are setting a precedent for moving forward and like Bernie said our decision does not bind other councils um but we can send a strong message of our values and to show our firm commitment to this issue um and so should our town be in a position where it's not possible or it's detrimental to our budget or to something else then I think that still leaves it open to be addressed at that time um but again I do think that it would be extremely important for us to set a precedent of our values and our commitments and to to at least make an honest you know to really try to meet those original commitments that we we made to make an honest effort and that you know in the end if it turns out that we have a really tight fiscals budget and we need money for other things that's a decision that the council can make at that time Michelle thank you this has been a really excellent discussion and really just appreciate everyone's in um I yeah I want to just support what Alicia was saying and sort of Shifting away from it you know it almost feels and I think somebody said this in municipal government like you know everything feels like a burden in a way um but if we think about this more of like an opportunity and go back to the original Spirit of the commitment that the Council made um I think that what Alicia said is really on point you know is like if we have to I I really hear what I think Bernie and Mandy are saying about you know we've uh decided on cannabis there were good reasons for that we decided on a timeline um unfortunately cannabis has declined and it could continue to decline almost to nothing we don't know you know know um so I think that it's about like the spirit of the commitment that we made and so we want to do this we made a commitment to do this we want to bring more people on board to support this commitment that the town made and so if it's that we're staying you know like with the Cannabis but that we say in some kind of policy that the council will look at this on an annual basis and you know I hope that over time as um benefits are distributed and uh folks can see how that is positively impacting members of our community and the community at large that each year there will be a little more motivation from the council to say you know like wow this is really look at the way that that went and this went and and and wanting to find the money um to get to that commitment more quickly so I feel like it's instead of kind of getting into a bind around you know figuring out an exact amount my suggestion would be that we stick with the Cannabis um as it was originally designed in the spirit that it was originally intended and then each year that the council has a discussion about how we might be able to grab from other places you know depending on what the year looks like so that's that those are my thoughts right now and also I just want to say that this is like a lot to process and you know so from from my perspective this has been a really good first discussion um and and just want to appreciate uh all of you for for um having this great discussion thank you Bernie yeah minor point I just wanted to note that the 19 $ 5,000 number was U Bob's uh uh not mine I I haven't thrown a number out there other than the say stick with the Cannabis money because it's safe it's there we know it's going to be there we don't know exactly how much but we know it's going to be there and we won't have these discussions about how do we fund this we have a source and people want to do add-ons on an ad hoc basis or later on that's fine the council has that the manager has that ability the council has that ability that can happen um the other piece I'd like to throw out there is the data shows that younger people uh are drinking less but using cannabis more so um it's likely here's here's hoping that the U uh that that the Cannabis Revenue stay steady at least thank you I really like the uh option of what I would prefer from my point of view is that 100% of cannabis goes into the fund and that every year uh 10% of free cash goes into uh that uh the reparations fund and then out of that every other year uh we uh the ah oress a group uh picks a percentage or it can be a set percentage is then spent uh and the reason for that is that you you know trying to wait until I the we all have all that money there uh there is no immediate impact uh that this uh that the ahra reparation fund is having and I think one of the goals and objectives is to have some immediate impact even if that impact uh takes place every other year uh and of course um you know the fund gets built up over time I think in a speedier way by doing this but you're also uh obviously subtracting from the amount of money that's available at the end but it doesn't uh mean that the contribution that the uh town is making is any less it's still going to be $2 million so I I I prefer the every other year approach I I prefer uh 100% of cannabis and then 10% of whatever free cash is thank you Andy um following up immediately on what IR said 10% of free cash wait to is a is a really significant policy decision because that and not only is it a lot of money but it is money that was intended in the round in the last round of discussions is to going into the capital stabilization fund so that we can finally get to the point where we're addressing the capital projects um and the huge backlog in capital because we haven't even touched on numbers of things that um are there uh so I guess that you know it it's it's a it's a big number and as much as I've supported reparations I have real trouble with that um I think that our original commitment uh was that we would take cannabis tax until we totaled a million and then uh Michelle urged the um committee and the council to change the million to a 2 million so the we would um take to keep contributing the amount equal to the Cannabis tax until we reach 2 million um I think it might make sense with the falling Revenue that is coming in for cannabis tax and the unknown to set of floor but um to 10% of uh something because we've had years where we've had unexpected U amounts coming into free cash I think the most recent example was uh the year that we uh um did had the well the health came claims trust fund was one example when the Health Trust Fund was dissolved and there was um money left over and that fell to free cash um but I think that the intent of getting it into Capital stabilization fund seemed appropriate I'm not sure that the council Community would um support what you're suggesting um so I think that we need to be very careful on thinking this through this to both what is right and we what we think the community would support councelor hanii yeah I want to mention again this chapter 40 section 5B it's the last paragraph um that reads a city that accepts this paragraph May dedicate without further appropriation all or percentage less than 25% of a particular fee to any stabilization fund established pursuant to this section provided however and then its receipt is not for reserved for a specific purpose and then it goes on to say a dedication shall be approved by a two-thirds vote of the legislative body of the city subject to Charter and may be terminated in the same manner a vote to dedicate or terminate a dedication shall be made before the fiscal year in which the dedication or termination is to commence and shall be effective for at least three fiscal years and so I think what KP law was saying and bringing this one up bringing this back to the discussion we've had about cannabis and saying that cannabis tax could be dedicated pursuant to this section is if the council wants to automatically move essentially move cannabis Revenue into the reparation state stabilization fund they can adopt that paragraph that particular paragraph and at least for 3 years it happens without any further vote and given what this says when the money hits 2 million the council could then resend that and use the Cannabis tax for something else or it could continue doing that but until rescinded and not less than three years after the first vote that money goes in without further vote of this Council or the next Council and it seems like that should be a discussion we have you know councelor Walker has said maybe not make it automatic I'm confused as to why if we have an option of making it automatic we wouldn't be discussing the pros of doing that um and I'm curious as to why um or reasons why we wouldn't want to make it automatic and I'm not sure where I stand on it but I think we should be talking about this section that potentially allows the Cannabis Revenue to automatically be deposited into the stabilization fund year after year after year without vote of the council yeah I certainly age with Mandy in terms of making sure that it's automatic I don't think that this is something that should be coming up for Bo every year to make and to make it automatic uh as to uh Andy's point about 10% being too much uh my my my thought is that uh if if you're talking about free cash that free cash is a discontinuous cash flow that is not unknown uh and and so if you if one assumes that it's going to be a large amount then obviously then one has to assume that there will be a larger amount going to uh uh reparations but my point is that um it is free cash uh and yes we we have in this town established that there there's certain percentage of free cash that goes to certain projects Capital stabilization funds C and I am saying and I guess I want to make the point is that if the council the town's going to uh stick to its values and also to its commitment uh to reparation then I certainly do not consider 10% to be uh too much we unless one assumes that wow we're going to be having great amounts of free cash every year and therefore that's uh that 10% is is is really great too large and if one assumes that then one then we have to go back to the whole thing about how uh but are constructed in the first place and are they being constructed to conservatively but I don't think that uh the ah should be subject to whether it's conservative or not uh it's it's subject to that money which is free cash uh and additionally uh the council could all always say on any particular year instead of 10 10% we are going only going to be giving 5% but it's there but at least that commitment is made councelor Walker um thank you and sorry maybe I wasn't very clear in my comments but just to clarify I would absolutely support um an automatic transaction and something that would dedicate the um cannabis tax fund to going directly towards reparations I think what I was saying about making the de looking at the decision every year was it's still my perspective that we should pick a number that we would like to contribute every year and then figure out how to get that number and so if the major portion of that number is going to come from the Cannabis tax fund that would be great again let's say for example we're going with the 195 number and the Cannabis fund comes in again at the 105 and so we're looking at where are we going to get the 90k from and so that was the decision that I was saying I would be comfortable saying that that would come from free cash I know that there are reservations for very good reasons about that and so saying that that portion of the decision can be looked at in terms of where are we fiscally this year what other things are happening within our budget is this still attainable but I think we should make a commitment to reaching the 2 million by the date we had intended um and with regular contributions Andy well I think it's worth spending just a minute to remember that uh what free cash is and uh free cash is neither cash nor free and uh what it is is it is the essentially it's the amount of money money that is not um specifically allocated and is um available to the town for additional expenditure and what our policy is uh when you go back to the um budget budget and financial policies of the town that you um that our goal is to have total reserves um including ining stabilization and um free cash between 5 and 15% of The Benchmark number uh which is uh essentially uh tax revenue and um the the the recognition that 5% stays in free cash because it is immediately available and it's sort of the buffer that um you need um to have in order to just operate under emergency circumstances when emergency circumstances arise um much like the our savings accounts at home and that um at the close out of each year when the amount of free cash is certified for the year that if there is an amount above 5% it gets trans the original policy is it gets transferred into what was then the stabilization fund and now um it's sort of been divided into three stabilization funds um but the major stabiliz the original stabilization fund is still for General um critical purposes such as um what do you do when uh there's a financial crisis in town similar to the 200 Southern crash um when we really had to dig into free cash just to keep programs and services alive um is our revenue is just plummeting totally um and the the and I think where it has been amended under Sean manano was that above 10% it goes into Capital stabilization funds so that there be an accumulation of capital stabilization fund so what um it's important to understand what is the financial policy of the town and why it is there and um I think that what we have to be careful about is not doing anything uh which is um changing the financial policies of the town and uh we should also be very careful about how we are arranging it but transfers from free cash are not available in years if the free cash actually falls below 5% of The Benchmark number but it's that that hasn't happened in many many years because it really would be a year of uh having made some very bad budgeting decisions to get us there to that point so I I I guess I'm uncomfortable because arguments are being made that I think are just totally financially irresponsible and contrary to what the charge to this committee is okay Kathy did you want to talk I hit the wrong button um so B Bob would you do me a favor and change 195 to 100 or back to 75 just to take it out you know so it was you know we were speculating it wasn't a promise that we would hit it by uh uh 2032 so I just um what Andy was uh talking about is we we have some extremely difficult years facing us I you know BB we just went through trying to find the extra 2% to put in the regional school budget which was 355 ,000 and the forecast over the next several years is we're going to be operating in a deficit um you know unless revenues come in much higher then we can forecast them so what Alicia has suggesting it might be that in addition to cannabis in a given year we could get as much as cannabis plus another 25,000 but to commit a specific share of free cash in advance wouldn't make sense I I did think that the Alicia idea is take a look at it each year and say is there is there some leeway but I think we're on really Dangerous Grounds if we don't think about um our particularly our schools we didn't have to stretch very much on the elementary school herb this year because they still had Esser Elementary School does not look good for next year without the S without without the Esser one-time funding so I think we have to think of there is a larger budget and that right now as Mandy said we could we we don't currently have the policy Mandy is suggesting that is in the KP law we have a each year we'll take a look at it and maybe we can put the whole cannabis in or not rather than we take an affirmative vote of a 2third to say cannabis is going in until we change that so that would be a change from what we're doing right now um and I would be comfortable at least having that be one of the options we're talking about but to specify any specific share um I I just don't think makes sense we could have as I said if we did every other year there would be a very robust amount of money that could be distributed each year um if we were doing what Bob has done but saying every other year we make the distribution and pull down some of the on some of the earnings um and so we you know the first few years could be the first every other year could be quite substantial um he's got just Distributing 50,000 but we could we we would be able to do more than that if we were also doing the earnings on the the base so that's that's a discussion on a do we want in every other year if it was every other it's it's $100,000 even in the simple option two that he's talked about so I think we should stay within what we think isn't running into roads schools uh and and other departments who all told us they were short on staff um who are so I think we have to be it this is clearly a value but it's not the only value that we're trying to stretch our revenues from so the the last thing I wanted to say is in the in the report we have it it is indeed possible to set up this fund we were told um by our finance staff that if private donors want to put money to augment this fund they can do that you know so that can be put in to a pool the town has a way of doing that whatever it is I mean we talked about it with a percent for art so there could be um a augmented amount of money that goes into this um it doesn't have to be just from the town Revenue sources so I'll stop talking there but I think we really need to stay big picture then go down to this picture and I I would be willing to go the rout Mandy has said the KP law memo lays out that to actually make it automatic at least for three years um where we take an affirmative a two-third voted the council which would be a bigger stretch than we've stretched so far we were being very cautious when we were first funding this saying only if free cash came in at a certain level would we take the Cannabis money out so I I'll just stop there because I I'm really concerned about what we do next year with schools um very much concerned about what we do next year with schools yeah I'm gonna I'll I'll call on everyone who's currently got their hand up but I do want to wrap this uh discussion up we're not going to vote so um it's been very good so far but I do we do need to move on so Irv um I I guess I when I said what I said uh I really want and I assume that the council would vote uh especially in terms of Mandy's suggestion uh that 100% of the Cannabis money go in there and that's on a year-to-year basis and make that vote so that you don't have to do it every year secondly it would is uh in my estimation it that the council has the option every year also to indicate its support of ahra by uh appropriating or uh using money from free cash to augment the um the money coming from Cannabis now that that the the part that I see that coming from is free cash but it doesn't have to be 10% it could be 5% or 2% but something above and beyond uh the can cannabis money uh I would like to see put in there and then the spending plan uh could be every other year uh so that there is a robust amount to be spent uh uh by the sucessor group for for AG a uh and and and yes I do believe and I know how uh how uh CR uh and the budgets are not only for this year but next year uh for the schools I'm I'm really aware of that uh but also uh made it clear that this spending that I'm suggesting for HR H or successor group is something that uh outside of the Cannabis going 100% to the fund that the Town Council can on a year-to-year basis if it chooses to add to that where that comes from obviously I look at is from free cash it might be other way other uh parts of the budget it can come from but wanting to make sure that that fund is augmented on a year-to-year basis thank you IR Michelle I do think that the move to formally uh dedicate the Cannabis tax revenue is a show of commitment and it is uh more than what we have now so I think that would be an excellent step to take um I would caution Kathy about individual private money going into this fund and the reason I say that that is there are so many limitations um that a municipality faces uh with respect and we still have a lot of unanswered questions around that you know Mandy talked about the special legislation and you know there are questions that we still haven't really answered and actually that we'll uh we'll be continuing to assess but I think personally I would like to see a private fund get created um that is managed outside of the Town um and I I I would hesitate to recommend that anyone uh take their money and put it into the municipal fund only for the reason that it's limited and uh its uses may be limited and so there might be a a a bigger uh impact uh of that private money if it were kept in an account that was outside of the municipality so thank you everyone thank you Bob appreciate you thank you thanks Michelle on Irv Matt thanks Bob um I'll just weigh in because I I do feel like this is where we were in many ways last year I understand that there's a question of making a permanent withdrawal from the or a permanent deposit from the um cannabis fund but I also realize that that can be undone on a On Any Given Year's basis I I think that there was an underlying um you know the idea of undoing structural racism and using the Cannabis f fund as a way to do that was something that was really clearly thought out both like both financially and also sort of within the spirit of the action that the council took a couple of years ago you know I know we we did that last year and I think we anticipate doing that again this year um and I personally and and I don't mean to be uh passing this Buck a little bit but but I would like to see the successor successor committee formed I would like to see a spending plan proposed and and I really think that getting um as as councilor Hani alluded to getting taxpayer support for this particular reparation stream of funding is is gonna require some spending plans and and some actual programming to support the reparations because you know we've been talking for a couple of years now about some of the potential fiscal structures for this I think ultimately whether it's you know every year or every other year things like that those are those are questions that the successor body um you know I would like to give them some autonomy around around some of those spending plans you know um so I guess I would just say that you know I continue to support cannabis as the funding stream for this and I'm very eager to to see some uh movement towards programming to to you know some some expenditure of these funds and I think that will help at least for me personally to have a a concrete opinion about how to fund it I'd like to know you know what it is we're funding and and sort of see progress towards that thank you okay um gonna stop sharing good able to do that um okay we have one more thing on the on the agenda and that is a letter um from the ammer toown council uh to the regional school committee um that lays out kind of our um thoughts on the regional budget uh for FY 26 um this was uh the letter was drafted by Council II and and Kathy um and I put a couple of minor edits into it but um you know to kind of summarize I think we the letter says that we want to we can't do a more than a a 4% increase uh even we we may not even be able to get to 4% next year and we should start with the base assessment which was the inflation of uh the FY 24 budget by 4% not by 6% um and so um I think Manny Joe is there something else in here that you want to point out um I want to thank Kathy for her help I drafted a letter and then I sent it to her because I knew she had um a lot of thoughts and so I I want to thank she was very very helpful in in getting this this draft that's presented to you to in in this form um it in addition to that fy2 stuff um it talks about the need for um starting the FY 26 budget process earlier um and really being um intentional and looking at all options including on the reducing expenses side um and and then there's a chart in there U that's that's obvious that that is built onto a chart that's in the built from a chart in I think our budget report um but it talks about the significant ongoing structural issues and that we need to abs absolutely deal with that um in the next year um it is I guessed we would want to CC this to the superintendent the town manager and the select Boards of the other three towns so may cced um I we might want to confirm that that's the only or that we do want to include them in the CC's and not just the regional school committee um but yeah so that's sort of I think the summary of brief summary of it we can talk more about where we got some numbers of people questions or and hopefully I included everything we talked about last week I guess it was that was my goal was everything to include everything somehow in here okay uh comments Bernie yeah um overall I said the letter is really well done I would suggest sending it to the finance committees the other three towns as well uh given the remarks that some of them made at the the last meeting we had the one change I suggested and again it was a minor one if you go to the second paragraph on the second page the region budget and FY 26 is already known to be in difficult problems use Esser funds to support recurring expenses and fy21 22 and 24 resulted in a sharp reduction in revenues my suggestion was to change that to funds or Monies yeah because oh well the copy that's on the on the screen now still doesn't have that change okay that's why that's why I know you changed it but that's why I'm mentioning it because it's the copy that we have in front of us doesn't have that change in it when I see revenues I think taxes um and it's probably uh better to um at least for me to to to clarify okay Matt your your uh hand is still up did you want to comment no I think you did a nice job with this at least laying out our position that's an accident sorry great thanks Andy yeah I had a couple thoughts about it uh some of them I uh wish I had been able to contribute earlier and partly my faults I shared but uh things like when we talk about the 4% for example we need to remember that 4% was a stretch to begin with that we only were able to offer because of one time U happening that we were uh U not uh charged with as much from the retirement assessment as we thought we would be because of the date on which retirements fell in in relation to when they did the calculation of our liability for contribution to the Hampshire County fund for the year and that um we started with 3% and then we went to 4% and we were able to go to 4% because of a onetime flu so not only do we have U our forward year projected deficits but we have to remember that U this year that we thought we were uh being very fortunate to be able to offer 4% and at that uh four towns meeting in uh whenever that was January or February everybody was ecstatic because we were able to come to 4% um and so to to not include that recognition I think we're missing a major point that really is important for um getting out there as far as the topic that was just discussed on sending to other Finance committees there's another process that has been under you know that we're talking about we need to make sure that the council is coordinated with whatever the town manager is ultimately going to be doing too and whether the town manager is going to be um suggesting that there be a process at some point over um the coming months to talk with the other towns about their projections um and the other towns are not just the finance committees but also the select boards and um I have been in communication because of my relationships built over years with members of Select boards and finance committees in the other three towns and I think they would be very eager to join in a discussion about the U what what the future funding capacity of all of our communities is and uh I'm um I I would uh take a pause to think about U whether that concept of um working with the other towns and trying to um is something that we want to actually have the council be recommending and uh uh before we go too far with this draft I think we should we should be checking in with others about about that aspect to it because I know that those discussions have been taking place a little bit uh so say I have been testing it with uh at least one member of finance committee and one member of selectboard of each of the other towns so um that U I think are things that I would think about um the other thing is is that we we want to make sure that uh we are very careful in our language that we recognize that this is a challenge and but it's and it's a challenge that belongs to the school committee and we Rec we recognize and respect the school committee in having to deal with it and that our goal is to let the school committee know early in the budget process and the new superintendent know early in the process what it is that the funds are that they have to work with but not be in any way saying anything that suggests um how they go about U making decisions that U they were elected to make so I guess um I can do a little bit of work on the draft uh to get to the first point if that would be helpful and even on on second point I would be willing to do that also that would be helpful Andy um Kathy yeah Andy I was just going to suggest if you look at the structure of it there's a paragraph second before the close of the first page it says even 4% is unlik is likely un sustainable going forward that's a good place to add uh we were only able to go to 4% this year because of a one-time uh reduction in the payment into the pension fund we had been at three and a half so that might be a place to do it and if you flag um there was an effort to do what you just said that we're we're totally in support and recognizing the challenges that that they're facing um we're just uh hoping that uh they'll have that there will be as Mandy said in earlier piece so suggestions on where you don't think the wording says that that would be great um Mandy so I you know I I was just doing a quick scan on where did we could it be interpreted in a different way because we were definitely just putting this and I think you know the the the origin of this was we say in the finance report that we want to the coun we're recommending the council send a letter so I think getting your changes into this would help for when we discuss the whole budget at our next council meeting so that we can get to yes on the letter um which is already in the packet uh the only other thing I might say Mandy you know we use desie data we Mandy I I did some of the desie data then Mandy went added other columns I mean I I actually think this kind of tracking what's going on should be a regular practice within the schools and and we sort of say that and we said that in our F Finance report but getting getting a history file it's it's not easy to put together FTE who who's working in our school system and how many students we have you have to go to multiple years of Desi then you have to go to other piece and I know the school our system is actually providing desie with that information but just trying to think of a history file and I went back I see ir's hand is up I went back you know five or 10 years ago and the initial reports particularly the regional report used to have a section that was a longer history file and I think it's a good practice so that the school committee can be seeing these this kind of um what's it look like now what you do with that information I don't know but it's just a really useful um thing to to be able to P pull that together so that was my only other point that this this table had to be created from a combination of school reports the school system reports on the staff and desie reports on the student body um before you go on Bob yeah this is a conversation of it's a point of order I'm making um I see that a school committee member has raised his hand who was part of this meeting for a different part of this agenda and I am just concerned um that this is a conversation about a letter that this Council we would suggest a council send to the body he represents and that it might not be appropriate to engage in conversation with members of the regional school committee about this letter especially since members of the regional school committee have not been invited to this meeting I just wanted to say that I love the letter it is something that needed to be said I also want to say then I'm I I'm late for a phone call now anyway is that I would really urge the council to get together with the other three towns so that as as early as possible so that the four towns are in unison in terms of what they are saying to the school committee in terms of the financial picture that the towns are going to be putting forward to the school committees and that that be done as early as possible not in December but mainly in in November that we have that information as an uh so that we know what the financial parameters are are and not only that we know what the financial parameters are but all four towns agree on the financial parameters that is really important and with that said thank you very much I appreciate you allowing me to make this comment thank you serve uh councilor hanii did you have other comments I did um um it was my impression we were going to try and vote you know we we voted last week was it um to recommend the council send a letter but when then they need a letter and so I'm I'm trying to figure out the process here if Andy is seeking more changes are we not going to vote a recommendation that this be the letter how is this this letter going to get to the council because the council I I thought the intention was for the council to vote the letter on Monday and so I'm just trying to seek some clarification here am am I taking some of these suggestions and then producing a letter and sending it to Lynn or is the committee going to try and vote a recommended letter today I've been trying to make some changes as I've I've heard stuff I can put it it on a screen but I just want to know what what the intention of the committee is I would suggest that we uh take a vote on whether or not to send a letter on and uh with the the understanding that you uh councelor heniki and Andy and Kathy will make final edits to it um only one person can be charged with final edits otherwise it's a subcommittee and requires an open meeting law public meeting posting okay yeah I have to agree with that I think that you should designate one of the uh other two who've been active working on the letter to take responsibility and that that person receives comments and suggestions from other members of the committee but it not be discussed and that the authority has to be vested in one okay fair enough uh councelor hanii are you willing to take this on yes okay then you are so designated does everyone agree that that with that approach uh yeah and I'm ready to make a motion um so that we can vote on it um I I move that we recommend the letter with changes as discussed during uh today's meeting and we submit it to the council for their consideration I'll second and then I just have a request okay te everyone send it to me to my by tomorrow so I can get it to Athena on Thursday um particularly Andy the second set I I got a lot of what you were trying to do with the 4% but about the whole working with other towns things I I kind of got but not really and so if you've got concrete suggestions related to that I would really appreciate that um given we already say in the letter and so I'm not exactly sure what to do with your suggestions so concrete suggestions would be appreciated on that issue and and Mandy just so you know I'm not going to send you anything I think it these changes I can imagine where they might go and I trust that they will be worded well so I think it's it's Andy's responsibility to get you either specific wording I mean I I didn't start to mark it up because I knew you would be starting to mark it up as we were talking so so I think keeping that control I mean they to me were minor but but important pieces to put in um so his one comment on tone I wasn't sure whether there was a sentence that hit hit you in the wrong way Andy and I just suggest you just do a you know track edit send it to Mandy I will and uh it may be that uh after reading it one more time through all agree that that third point which was the one that I was least certain about I think that the other two and it sounds like M's actually captured the whole thing about we were lucky we got to 4% and U it was a onetime fluk and why that's important to say that I think that sounds like Mandy like he may have actually come up with a way to approach that one all right we have a motion and it's been seconded uh so we'll take the vote now I vote I Andy yes Kathy yes uh councelor Walker yes councelor haniki hi Bernie support Matt support okay thanks I think that wraps us up for today does anyone have any final remarks um as go ahead oh I just have a question um do we have a meeting next Tuesday I was just gonna say uh we have it on the schedule but I think we could all use a break and I don't know that there's anything that came up certainly nothing came up last night I believe that we need to re respond to um I mean we're going to have the budget discussion I guess next Monday so I guess I should goad Andy uh Bob you're you're on the committee too but since two of us are on TSO um we are but this is not for next um an immediate action but something just to make sure that the committee is aware of we're working on the waist holler bylaw and the the process is really similar um to what CRC was dealing with when when Mandy was uh sharing it and was developing the rental registration by law that there was piece about um how the financial end of it um was working that ended up having to come back to finance and um the referral motion to TSO on the waist hauler actually said that we should be doing this in consultation with the finance committee wtso so um it is a coming issue for um U I would guess later in the summer maybe or fall I don't think it's going to be sooner certainly not next week okay what I was going to ask that would mean our next meeting is on July 2 is that correct that's what I have on my calendar yes yes July 2nd is is that everybody yeah it does and so one of my questions related to that is we began a discussion today are we going to continue that discussion on possible you know so just what are we going to do with the ideas that we mold over on possible options on uh reparations fund funding I thought I would try to write up uh you know kind of a summary of our discussion and maybe we can talk about that on the second again and see if we can you know hone hone what we what we put in terms of options and and I would like that and I would like it to hone you know down to a minimal you know not a gazillion sets and then to start to think of advantages disadvantages or something about that and uh think in terms of a deadline for ourselves when we're actually going to do a report with a recommendation you know because we could continue to talk about this for a very long time otherwise I I like to have meetings and end at some point you know with like we're trying to get to yes recommendation um birie um officially this is my last day of my term yeah so I want to say thank you to everybody I've really enjoyed the process here and the the the good workking relationship with everybody in the committee and the fact that uh as I'm fond of saying reasonable people disagree reasonably so it's nice to be among a group of reasonable people I really very much appr appreciate it um if for some strange reason the council deems I should come back for another year I'm not going to be available on July 2nd but we'll cross that bridge whenever the Council next votes so thank you everybody okay thanks Bernie you've been a great addition to the to the team Matt oh well I have to start by echoing that Bob um Bernie it's really been amazing to serve with you and I hope you hope to see you again uh on the finance committee Bob since we since we are going to look at a memo summarizing the reparations discussion what do you think about asking for a report on the process for forming the successor body to ahra or if not a report at least you know some brief comments from the town count Town manager in terms of where that's where that's going and when um a different committee so that's sitting in go right now and I'm not on go but um go also asked for a legal review regarding a lot of questions that surrounded that back in the last term and I believe the email that came through with this KP law opinion said it was still working on that one so I think it's in a holding pattern at go right now yeah okay yeah because we have to coordinate we we have to coordinate with go on this because they're they're they're dealing with the issues that issue as well as um you know what how we can spend the fund and what process should we use so um all right anybody else uh is there a motion to adjourn second all right I uh I'll vote I uh councelor hanii I Andy hi Alicia yes Kathy yes Bernie hi Matt I support all right everybody thank you very much it was a great meeting and uh we will uh see you on the second e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for