okay I'm reaching out to her now but we're recording so you can begin okay yes thank you uh so uh we do have a quorum so I am um going to uh call the meeting to order um I do want to say that this meeting is being held virtually uh through the various acts of the state legislature um and so everyone will have the opportunity people have the opportunity to uh for public comment um if um they're in the audience um just raise your hand or if you're on a phone I think it's star nine um and uh that's for raising your hand so I will go through that again when when we get to public comment um so um um I do see we have a quorum so I will just call the meeting to order and go through uh list of participants to see whether we can hear you and you can hear us so I'm just going to go by what's on my screen Andy I'm here Bernie present councelor hanii present Matt present Kathy you're muted trying to unmute well Kathy's unmuting um Alicia uh texted back that she'll she's on the way okay I'm here okay great so um let me see if there's any participants in the audience the only attendee is Lynn um so um I think we'll we'll hold off on public comment uh so the agenda uh for those of you who haven't um seen it uh we're we have public comment number or call order public comment then the CPA funding we were going to try to review the annual audit but it's not ready yet so we can't look at that um I would like to have a discussion of how we can review the budget what process we think we want to use and want some just people to throw out some ideas about how to improve um not only our ability to review it but uh reducing the amount of time that staff members have to come before the committee um and then topics not reasonably um anticipated so um I'm going to wait on public comment because as I said we don't have anybody right now um so I'll I'll why don't we talk about um the CPAC report um so we've seen this before um the basically um they had um two . 376 million to spend and they want to spend 2.375 so they want to spend pretty much all of it um The Debt Service out of that money is 520,000 um and then um the rest is going to be split between community housing historic preservation and Recreation there were no open space um uh applications this year and there's no administrative fees this year so uh a total of 681 th000 for community housing 564 th000 for historic preservation and 1.13 million for uh Recreation was being proposed so um I don't know if we want to H uh councelor Walker can you hear me can we hear you yes I can thank you Bob great thank you welcome uh I was just going through um the um the the report that we have seen before um does anyone not have it because I can send it to you if you need it okay um so anyway I'm just going to open it up um I don't know if you want to go through if we want to go through each of the the projects or maybe we should just kind of see General uh General comments um personally I thought all the projects were reasonable and uh you know I think uh you know there wasn't anything in there that I haven't seen we haven't we've we sort of done a lot of similar projects in the past so Kathy uh yeah I I agree with you Bob and actually when um we saw it a few weeks ago with Sam we did go through the projects and Mandy and I will actually me at the council meeting the Mandy again we we had some comments about the Mount Zion church but it wasn't um it wasn't a not going forward with it it was just a concern this may be the tip of the iceberg and it clearly needs to be done so my hand went up mainly as I'm willing to make a motion but usually we have a we also have a Financial order so we make a motion that the council approve Financial order do do dot dot dot so um I so that so I'm willing to do that but but I'll let you Mandy's hand is up so I would have to word my motion to include the language of that Financial order yeah um what maybe while Mandy's making her comment I can pull up the financial order for you thank you it's 257a is um yeah um I I basically agree um with Kathy um except I have concerns about the East ammer local historic district funds um you know I mentioned this last time and I understand the projects um value to the town whether or not the historic district is um ultimately formed or not my bigger concern though in granting funds for a project are the application comments that the project would be supporting so it's not the project necessarily I have huge concerns with I have concerns that that would imply that we support the wording of the application and as I stated about two meetings ago when we first discussed this the application has some very concerning wording in it for me um that I don't want to endorse even if the project itself is ultimately that portion of the project the the doing of the the um the structures report historic structures report is ultimately valuable to the town I don't want to vote for a project that has an application and then would in theory have the town supporting an application that uses quotes like the construction of prefab shotly built student hotels which detract from and devalue the town and benefit only a handful of landlords end quote and also quote rapid changes are occurring in the area including a new school and a proposed adjacent overlay District that are impacting its historic character and integrity um that are first of all there isn't a proposed adjacent overlay districts was just wrong um but um so I'm not sure what to do with that one on my own in terms of a vote um whether to ask that it be pulled off so I can register my non reccommendation on that um but I I really do want to disavow the application for the East amest local historic district because I believe the wording in it is not appropriate for us to endorse Bernie yeah I share the counselor's concerns as just expressed about the wording that's in that that application I mean um forming a historic district should be um an act of of instruction and research and um you know and something that's positive so those comments are are toxic in in my humble opinion um I would not want to in sharing that that sense as well that I I would not want this to be seen as authorizing a local historic district it's more of a it's more of an investigation as to whether or not there's substance there um I I just U have again I I share the same same same problems that with the application that councelor hanii does so if we were to um not approve this particular application um would we send it back to CPAC for a different wording in the application or should we what do people think we should do Andy have you done that in the past what what what we what do we do in the past where we have an issue like this I don't think we've had one that's exactly like this this is sort of a very unusual situation in that um when we've had objections in the past to things it has been something that was uh pretty specific like um trying to think that the house that was last year MH we had some serious concerns about it um but I can't think of an analogy that's quite like this and uh I wish that we had said something to Sam at the time because uh uh though I I think I I guess that I would recommend um going back to Sam and the committee in asking them for uh modification or clarification because uh if my understanding is correct and uh theena can confirm that there's no reason that the council has to act on all of these things in one bundle and the deadline is really the end of the fiscal year so that uh we really have time to um just dispose of the rest of them and put this and recommend putting this one on pause until there's clarification to meet standards that the committee defines okay thank you Kathy um yeah as Andy said we you know he has longer years than I do but I have the six um so there was a year where one of the projects was more controversial and we wanted to make sure we got had amp public time I it was a um it was uh an affordable housing project on uh coming into town so we pulled it off the pack out of the package approved the rest of the package and then separately looked at it and approved it in June I mean we did ultimately improve it but what I remember and Andy can correct me is the financial order itself then needs to be rewarded because it takes it in this case it would take $20,000 out um and not have the same list in it and um so if we were going to go thatout that is the way we went the other time as opposed to just held the whole package um we pulled one out so I it seems to me Andy what you were saying is we could either wait on the whole package and tell Sam about these specific concerns and figure out what if anything they can do because this was the applicants wording and CPAC I I think he said everything was voted out unanimously including by the historic the the members who were in on the planning board and the members who are representative from the other entities so we could either hold the whole package with this concerned or we could pull this out with a recommendation we move ahead on the rest um so that's that would be my I don't know which route I personally would like to let the others move so we can just come back to just this one project um and I'll stop talking thank you Bernie yeah I've I've had a considerable amount of experience with Community preservation act uh activities uh albe on a Town level not a city level but I um I believe that under the the statute we could knock out the uh the $2,000 for uh the the local historic district and suggest that the council U approve the rest and then let this uh you let the community preservation Committee of the applicant um come back and straighten things out there's no this isn't a oneandone kind of situation so we can either uh my so my suggestion would be that we strike the $20,000 and amend the order so that uh that's not there and forward that to uh as our recommendation to uh Council the council can put it back in if they want so just Bernie on amending the order it's both the total up at top goes down by 20 and then so people l order I'm staring at this I have my laptop screen and things are very small but two places the total appears e gammer's historic district line just can be struck uh strike through and the total at the top comes down by 20,000 and then the total down the bottom comes down by 20 and the remaining goes up by 20 I'm just saying there there three there there's more than one place that the numbers would have to change yeah that's that's that's accurate yeah so just just amend the document that way um um Bob if I may I don't think the committee needs to worry about um changing this document or amending the document the committee is just making a recommendation to the council to you know it from the conversation to approve those and not approve the the local historic district so you don't need to worry about the changes we would prepare a new order with um if the council decided to act that way with the changed line okay thank you Matt thanks Bob um yeah I I took I was initially asking to clarify that that um councilor haniki was was objecting to the which application but I I'm looking at the CPAC application now and I do see that problematic language in there um I'm just wondering if if striking this outright is the only uh is the only action to recommend I I certainly understand and agree that we don't want to necessarily endorse those two or three sentences um but I also strongly I mean I agree that this is overall a very worthwhile project and I'm wondering could we um indicate you know some disapproval of that language or or just sort of a implied non-consent to that language if that's a term um wi within our recommendation to the council and you know I think the work itself is is important and you know they are asked to demonstrate urgency for the report for the work and I I think that they have um so I just I wonder if there's another mechanism by which we could indicate that we are not and we're not the CPAC so we're not the ones who approved this application um you know not to say that we shouldn't do due diligence but um CPAC did and so I wonder if there's a space where we can sort of indicate that we don't support that language in particular um while still allowing the project to move forward on the timeline Matt what I was suggesting and the man's coming in was that our our recommendation would be to send it back to CPAC to figure out what what if anything could be done you know if they could address the language so it wasn't a no way Jose for the 20 you know that it's gone and that we would reflect that in the recommendation to the Council on this one goes back to them with this concern um so I wasn't just going to say we like everything but not this one but but more the concern about the wording not not the concept of forming the district potentially for forming the district so all talking but it was a different kind of wording on what we would recommend to the council and I did I did understand if Bob I can just respond I I did understand that I was wondering if we could make a a full recommendation to the council that included sort of you know concern about that wording Council hanii yeah I I don't know this is why I brought it up because I don't know which one is more appropriate um but I do look at um my other concern in looking at the appropriation transfer order it it literally says East ammer local historic district which was not actually the title of the project and I think also Mis implies what's going on with that it's actually a study committee and hiring of a consultant to do things and you know um this is not forming a local historic district I don't want as as Bernie said I don't want any indication that this is endorsing a local historic district although the structure historical structure reports that would be created from this could be valuable um I think we need to be very clear as to what is going on with this 20,000 number one and I don't know whether the appropriate thing to do when there's a concern about the language of the application is to say no to the money make a recommendation of not approving this and say come back with an application that doesn't use um in Bernie's words toxic language um or whether it's to approve the project and the money for the project because the project is worthwhile along with some sort of statement that says we do not endorse or condone the language in the application I don't know which one is more effective or valuable which is why I brought it up yeah Bernie well my my thing would be simply to we can do one of two only things we can forward this order to the council with the recommendation that they approve everything except the $20,000 and outline the reasons why uh we we're not in approval of this um or we can send it back to the U I think we're on shakier grounds if we send it back to the uh to the committee um you know it's up the committee has a certain degree of Independence and and what it comes down to is the appropriating authority whether it's town meeting or Town Council um gets to say yes or no to the projects u in wholesale they can't amend them uh and they can't certainly can't increase them and they can't amend them so it's a it it my preference would be that we advise the counil that we are in not in we are in agreement with the rec recommendations except for the East ammer local historic district and the reason why we're not supporting the East ammer local historic district is one uh this is the the uh wording here is um uh not accurate this was a proposal for a historic structures study um which would be the precursor to attempt to form a historic district that's one and two the language that was used in the application suggests um that this is being done not as a way to further Emmer's history and distinction but to inhibit or limit um development and U that's not um something that we're willing to endorse so my my thing would be is that you know we send this for forward order forward and say to the council um you know I'm in the order to take this out and let um let CPAC um wrestle with it and they can always bring it back Andy yeah I agree with the concept that Bernie is uh generally putting forward because it what we would really want to do is um give the uh applicant the opportunity to amend the language but if they're not willing to accept the um suggestion we're making for a change in language I think we need to know that from the from the source you need to get to the get to the original applicant and make sure that the applicant is really on board with the change that we think is necessary so uh I guess I would tend to uh recommend everything except that one line to tell them why we're not we could go ahead and notify the committee uh on by the finance committee notifying the committee as to the reasons why and say that if they and the applicant can come to an an agreement on amended language um that um we would still have the opportunity to um change to to recommend a different outcome for a different application within and get it done for the end of the fiscal year okay just someone want to make a motion to that effect I agree I think that's what we should do um um Bob I'm I'm prepared to but I want to make a a slight change to what B Bernie said um um you know I think the concern is the language and the application is negative about all recent change and Sugg and suggest the goal is to inhibit all development you know they didn't explicitly say no development but just not you know not to be as sweeping but the word suggest so that's the way I would word are sending it back okay if people are comfortable with that I can that that's that's certainly that's certainly within the letter in spirit of what I was suggesting I was ring off the top of my head so so I make a motion to approve I got a can you scroll just up a little bit um what would be to recommend yeah I make a motion to recommend that the council approve appropriation and transfer order FY 2507a with the exception of the $20,000 for a study uh for a potential East amest local history District the concerns we we recommend that that item be removed from the approved list the concerns with that let's let's let's include that part in the report so your motion would be to recommend approval of the order with the exception of the East amoris local historic district in the amount of $20,000 okay period is that okay yeah thanks and I I wanted to word it accurately though so the study uh to consider an East I realize that's not what it says but as long as we 20 say 20,000 so we're accurate in our wording about what it is okay yeah I I think that's correct procedure and what I would then consider doing is having a second motion that the committee then would uh essentially move that on it communicate something to the CPA committee regarding modifications that it recommends so that the um project itself can be um reconsidered before the end of the grant year right so can we do that motion second and and take point of order I I think we just need a second on your motion first Cathy is there a second I was gonna second it thank you and then I was going to make a comment go ahead c um yeah I I think I agree with Andy a second motion but what I wonder is whether that second motion is also a recommendation that the council communicate to the CPA committee not that the finance committee communicate I feel like it should be coming from the council not the finance committee yeah okay that makes sense so let's why don't we uh we vote on the motion at is there any other comment on the motion the one at hand okay so um why don't we we'll start I'll start I'll I'll I'll say yay councel heni I Matt support Kathy yes Bernie support uh councelor Walker yes Andy yes okay so it's unanimous now the second uh does uh someone want to put some language forward for the second which is for the council to uh recommend to to communicate to CPAC our concerns um I can take a stab at that and everyone can edit my words up I I make a motion that we recommend that the council communicate with CPAC to concerns about the $20,000 award for a study for an East amoris historical s uh Society the first is that the way it was worded in the financial order implied that it already exists it needs to be changed to the study the second is the language in the application is negative about recent changes and suggests the goal is to inhibit all development is there a second I'll second okay um any additional discussion okay why don't we vote on the motion then uh Council hanii I Matt support Kathy yes Bernie support councelor Walker yes Andy yes and I vote Yes so again we have a unanimous um vote um and two sports so I think that's it on CPA does anyone else want to say anything more about CPA no I don't know you know and when you write up the report Bob I think it was generally an excellent set of projects so so that you know I I would put some general positive wording on our um it it was quite well balanced and a lot of just something that says something nice about the and we thank CPA for their work yeah yes okay I will do that um so the next item was the going to be the audit which is not ready so uh why don't we discuss our budget review process um what we've done in the past is um we've divided up the budget um into uh you know by by by um Department um and we each one of us each each person on the on the committee would take one department and take a deep dive in into that particular part of the um of the budget and uh take questions from the other Comm committee members um and then um kind of submit those questions to the department uh and have them when they come before us they would have these questions ahead of time for the most part um I don't know whether that is the way we want to go ahead um I'm open to anyone's suggestions I know it's a very tedious process uh for us and for the staff um and and uh so if there's any way that you can think of to streamline things um maybe uh well any any I'm open to suggestions so feel free Kathy yeah I don't I want to make sure I word this in a way that it's not negative about any uh element of what our town is doing but we have some departments that are one person or two person departments and we don't give them completely equal time but we do divide a time and then we have departments that are a major share of our funds um and I think the Departments that are a major share of our funds aside from what they're currently budgeted for hearing from them about either the stress um of current Staffing turnover other things that we wouldn't naturally get because although we're dealing with a budget we can't easily well we can't increase any amount of money that's been allocated to them so I don't know whether there's a way of grouping what I call the smaller um and uh and then uh so removing some of the meetings and then leaving some time with the others where the understanding is uh respond to the questions that we've presented and then um talk a little bit about uh you know from the ground level up to us um about their budget so that's one thought the second and I have no idea how we live with this as we know the budget guidelines despite the increase to 4% are a major source of concern for the schools particularly the Regional Schools so that seems that's going to need we're going to need some guidance on how we even have a discussion about that because the town unless Paul miraculously finds a million dollars um the town doesn't have a place for what the school committee seems to be suggesting would be a budget that's coming to to us so that's where I don't know how we handle that one um but we can't avoid that discussion so we just have to have it and I've been actually looking at budgets and issues of Staffing and you know is there some belt tightening that could happen but I'm not sure I don't think it comes to a million so that's just my my thinking about this um and and and in the meantime I mean there's not much of a meantime between now in May on on if uh the work like Andy talked about the work at MMA if if Chapter 70 miraculously had a chunk more money if something could come that would ease the stress in the schools it would be great so I would schedule them later rather than earlier and when we're meeting so I'll stop talking there because those are my thoughts on fewer meetings but more Focus yeah counselor haniki yeah um so this is my first year on finance so I've come in and out of the budget sort of meetings in May from finance committee when it's held them on departments I'm interested in so I'm I'm not fully you know engrossed in what Finance has done in the past but um a couple of things I'm curious whether Finance has ever actually taken our budget guidelines looked at the manager's budget and made an affirmative determination if that the manager's budget meets the guidelines um because you know the department meetings are great but from my experience many of the questions are and those meetings happen too late because the budget's the budget and we can't really I mean we can decrease it um but if it meets the financial guidelines that we've issued do we have a reason to decrease it right um have we ever has Finance ever sort of made that determination and so that's sort of where I'm starting with is shouldn't we first be comparing the budget to the financial guidelines and saying it meets our guidelines or it doesn't meet the guidelines and then I think the question question becomes what do we do about all the questions we have about the individual departments and when are they most appropriate to happen and I'm just not sure that it's most appropriate or most appropriate is not the right word most useful for them to happen in May after a budget is in front of us versus in the time where we're developing budget guidelines and before we're developing guidelines to be able to ask more general questions about departments in the vein of what Kathy um just indicated about where is the stress what is the Staffing what what issues are you having those much more general ones and so I guess I'd kind of like to see a much more streamlined focused May on does the budget meet the guidelines and then maybe move a lot of these department meetings to August September when we can talk in more generalities in order to develop the guidelines for the next year Andy um first of all I just would to point out that the way we've organized the department presentations was by functional area in the past so we do Public Safety all in a bundle and we do um the and you you you track the budget and it goes it comes out of the budget which really is organized around uh what the state um requirements are the U the local services and how they organize presentations of budgets so that sort of filters down to the committee but we don't have to do it that way so I just wanted to point that out um the other um and I and I do think that it's right that um Mandy has a good point uh that we sort of know that the budget just by looking at it and by the presentation from town manager that it is responding to the guidelines and uh but um the uh there are a number of departments that um you are pretty straightforward and we spend a lot we spend time on them and take their time uh it you really need to think about that schools is the big issue and I think Kathy's right which is really when I raised my hand and the timing problem is the regional schools and we can't avoid the fact that the Regional School issue has to be dealt with in with the other Town meetings um in the other three towns and the Regional School process because uh once three towns have approved the budget it's done U unless except for the uh question of the assessment methodology which takes four towns to approve and U I think that that's where the big pressure is going to be that that's what the million dooll request is about so um I I think that it's important that um we think about that and recognize that we always take that out of cycle and take it first because of the uh fact that it coincides with the process that involves three town meetings in in pwns that are the other part of the region yeah that is a that's a that's a good point Andy uh we we can't really postpone our discussion of that uh to a later date because there is no later date really um anyone else have any thoughts okay well I think I I don't think we need to decide this now I just thought I wanted to start the process of thinking about it I will write down a couple of thoughts about you know how we might proceed um and uh I'll bring the points up that that uh councilor haniki raised as well so Kathy yeah I I don't want to stop the conversation on this because I was going to bring up another topic and it would be a 48 hour rule but not really it's like future agenda item kind of uh thing so Andy if you're still speaking on this um go before me yeah no I I think that we need to actually um just make sure that we schedule the regional budget presentation pretty quickly and that um we think through very carefully how we're going to approach that in the information that we're asking we can't delve into the budgets of the school committee because it's really um ultimately their decision is to what they do so it's not that you can say oh why do you need this item or why do you need that item and try and second guess their budgets but on the other hand I think we do have to make the point that has concerned me for several years about the schools that there's a trend and they just continue to put together budget proposals for the towns and and for us as a city that uh are what they a strategy for the year at hand but they don't think ahead it's not a long-term strategy of what it is that we're doing because um we've pointed out a year ago that you know this train wreck was coming and here we are with the train wreck and they didn't do anything differently except put together a budget based upon the same principles that they use every year level Services cost of level services and the what cuts are necessary Council hanii um Bernie can go next okay Bernie thank you um yeah this I mean the budget reviews are kind of they're an interesting thing and because it's not like the finance committee is shaping the budget the finance committee is commenting on the adequacy of the budget and um offering some Judgment of the the you know the town manager's ability to put this stuff together the other thing that we do do is we do expect each of the Departments to manage with the amount of money that's been allocated um the school committee seems to think it's an exception to that um that and I I frankly was very troubled by the remarks that were made that well we're going to add a million dollars into it and let them figure out how to fund it that's not how you manage a budget so I I think that the suggestion that we uh um that for the future that department heads get interviewed um in September October when there's the opportunity for the finance committee in in particular and the council after that to make recommendation to the manager that you you really need to pay more attention here we need to make these adjustments there what we're doing now is just saying yeah this looks adequate um so uh it it's a it's a strange situation to be in and I do agree that we have to have the school discussion UPF front and that's 60% of 60% of our budget 60% of our revenues go there thanks c hanii yeah thank you I I agree we should be I guess it's technically asking the manager to forward the regional school budget to the com Council for referral to the finance committee sooner rather than later so we can start on those discussions um I I think it would be valuable um I and I think there also has to be either a public hearing or a public forum I'm not sure which and we should get that on a schedule probably sometime in April um we probably need to discuss from a finance committee point of view if there's any um recommendation from finance committee is to when it thinks the council should vote on a regional school budget and when it thinks Finance should make a recommendation looking at when the other towns are holding their Town meetings um I'd also like a discussion although I can make suggestions now as to who from the school district and school committee we asked to show up to our discussion on the budget in the past I think we've generally had the superintendent um and the finance director I'm not sure there is a finance director at the schools um right now but given the school committee the regional school committee is the body that voted not to follow our financial recommendations guidelines I think it would be valuable to invite members of the regional school committee to the hearings okay Kathy um I am staying on this topic um if we put that together the other thing I'd like to do is gather our questions sooner rather than later um including if we have requests for data because often we requested data that's Trend data that wasn't readily available in terms of in somebody's hand and and yes um some of us can go find it on desie maybe but having it be you know not codified by the school so I would just like to gather some of that those questions earlier so the team I know how stressed they stretched and stressed they are in the Staffing because the Acting Superintendent as far as I know is still the finance director so with a there is a team working with him but you know Doug made the comment at the four towns meeting when someone said I'm looking at enrollment after for the last four or five years and it's down and it looks like employment is up Staffing is up and Doug quietly said Yes actually the student to teacher ratio has declined you know I mean in a in a classroom and a classroom level but I just think trying to get some sense of to of what's lies underneath these numbers without going to individual lines um and so just Gathering our questions earlier so that we can get some response on these you know the the what I mentioned last night and I probably will just say it again is um when I look at what the charter school is taking out of the region in terms of per student and then I look at the charter operating budgets we're overpaying them you know in terms of their operating costs but we're helping because other towns don't pay as much because their average costs are lower you know so the kids coming I just picked one or two schools the kids coming from South Hadley the amount they're sending to a specific charter school is much less than what we're sending so we we are in fact creating a margin in the schools I mean so it's just many ways of looking at this is this isn't right um the way it's working and it is one of those long it's a long-term Str structural problem so it's a structural I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in with the point of order here I don't want the committee to get too far into the Weeds about the regional school budget when you know the discussion is about the the process um so I've just I just want to point out that we're we're getting into it a little bit and and also in terms of scheduling um right now we are expecting Doug to present the regional school budget on April 1st and Bob and I had to discussed potentially um April 29th U Monday evening public hearing on the regional school budget so your answer to getting the questions early is like we'd have to have them now thanks thanks so does everyone agree with the the the schedule that that Athena just talked about I mean we have opportunity to go uh to do it earlier if people want to do it um we can begin our review on a we have a meeting on April 2nd think um we can um we could begin the review if if Doug presents it on the the first we can start looking through it I don't know that we'll be ready to discuss it on the second we may have to live with it for a while um so we we had scheduled that for the 16th um just so to give people a couple of weeks to live with the budget um does that make sense or we to people what I we can we can come back and we can revisit this but um Andy you have any thoughts um I think that we have to have also a question as to whether we need to move the hearing to an earlier date I um suspect that the hearing is going to generate it um as much interest as the arpa funds discussion did at the council meeting last night and that um we're going to hear a lot and there needs to be um question in our you know as a matter of process whether uh there need there has to be some time to deal with the repercussions or the followup to whatever happens at at the hearing so I just wanted to put that out there for just consideration as we talk about process um Bob and I had discussed um the 29th because the week before is the first night I think of rashash sha and the week before that is a school vacation week so if the committee was interested in doing on a on a different evening um I can pull for dates we had Ed a Monday evening rather than the committee's regular meeting time to improve Public Access any thoughts Council hanaki you have your hand up yeah um I was just going to try and confirm when when Athena named a Monday night this is it's being called as a finance committee public hearing right um we're not trying to put it on at a council meeting well the council might it might be dual noticed but it's not being tried we had talked about at a council meeting um correct so what we had talked about in the past was that the hearing is required by the charter to be a finance committee hearing um in the past we have posted it as a finance and Council hearing because I think we've always done it before a council meeting um but it doesn't need to be a council meeting this is an opportunity for members of the committee and councilors who wish to attend to hear from the public and there's not a discussion um needed on that evening so um the idea this year was to post it as just a finance committee meeting and invite counselors to sit in the audience to listen so I I guess you know I I would like to see it I think before April 29th because we can't really have a good discussion in finance until we've had that public hearing on it I mean we can have a good discussion but we can't finish our discussion until after the public hearing and it's my understanding that two of the towns are having their Town meetings on the 27th of April am I I I think I'm correct on that and the other one is sometime in May which means we would already have their results before we even hold our public hearing which seems kind of strange to me um not you know versus voting sometime after we know the results but I feel like holding the public hearing before the town meetings other Town meetings have voted on the regional school budget is more logical if there's no objection I can pull the committee for evening dates um before the 29th and we can figure out what evening works for everyone yeah I I I think Athena let's let's see if we can get something before the in something in the week after the the week of April one I guess there's a there's a council meeting on the 8th is that correct um maybe that week yes that's right maybe that week we could we could try to because I I agree with Andy that the the the the the public hearing is going to take a long time um or we should expect it to take a long time so I would think that we should have maybe a separate meeting just of the finance committee um and uh you know other counselors who want to attend and just let people talk because I think there'll be a lot of comment so it sounds like I should pull for the week of April 8th a different evening during the week of April 8th is that what I'm hearing yeah is that does that sound okay to people I mean I don't have my my calendar myself but um I think that week or the week of the 15th I know the week of the 15th is school vacation week but the hearing would be on Zoom so it's a little less I I feel like it's a little less problematic to try and do a school hearing during school vacation week when people can attend from anywhere that doesn't mean it isn't problematic but it's less problematic okay I I will PLL for meeting dates for those two weeks okay okay so does anyone else have anything else to say about this um one I had a question um about going back to the um when should we talk to the various department heads do um I don't have a problem with doing it in the August September time frame the question I have is whether we should not have those conversations in May um this year and just have a review of the the budget as councelor hanii has suggested to see whether it's within the it meets the guidelines or should we sort of have a conversation with the the department heads for this year's budget and then talk about next year's budget in September I wasn't clear what the thoughts were on that Kathy I'm not sure what Mandy had in mind but if we think of our guidelines with the exception of town Services everything um it's this much Library increase this much schools then we have a lot of wording about sustainability and roads are important and Public Safety and so that is one set of budgets and so there's one thing we could have a lot of conversation about um that is what Bernie just that leaves out 62% or 65% of the budget if we're putting the schools in another bucket so I'm I'm Mandy I'm not sure what you had in mind because our guidelines set up uh uniformity um um and we you know even if you know I asked quickly and said forget it you know on library but what is the LI what would the discussion about the library be we we said this much of an increase and they're that's what they're going to no one's coming in under what we suggested so I'm not sure I'm not sure other than this it's a big group of activities um and that could be a discussion on you know what we're allocating to all of those other things um so I'll just stop there because it it's a it's one long meeting then but it's not on multiple departments very easily CER hcky so the guidelines are very extensive some of them go towards the numbers as Kathy said is this one at 4% or lower is this one at 4% or lower all of that um but others go to sort of how is the money being used where I think there could be some questions but I don't necessarily think it has to be by Department per se um you know if we I I'd have to go back and review the guidelines but but to talk about Kathy's sustainability well well we could ask questions that say Okay deter you know give us information as to how this budget meets those guidelines on sustainability we could potentially have a couple meetings on different parts of the guidelines during the budget process and then you know I guess one of the things I'm envisioning for department meetings if we were to do that why I'm not sure they're necessarily helpful in May is because in May we're so focused on a budget we can't do much about instead of focused on the guidelines where we can write those things in about sustainability or Public Safety Services or things like that and I think if we do those those meetings in September or October we would be more focused and more forward-looking on our questions less likely to potentially get into the nitty-gritty that maybe the council's not supposed to be in on and more likely to be talking about much more of the guidance the policy direction of the town when we're not staring at a number that has been proposed um when we're looking forward to that so I think there could be a way to organize May in a lot less meetings than Finance has done in the past but around different sections of the guidelines as it relates to the operating budget the capital budget any particular things we said we want to see focused on and things like that so it wouldn't necessarily be one long meeting um okay but but I think it could be split but I think it would take a lot less pressure off Finance to meet twice a week for four weeks um because we might be able to do it in four meetings then instead of eight or nine um anyone have any I I I like it Mandy that was helpful because you're picking out something in the guidelines that's Crosscut to have yeah rather than yeah well okay I there's there's a lot of thoughts swirling through my head this has been a very good discussion um so I think we should you know maybe just finish up this part of the discussion um you know we have time to to really plan what we want to do in May so um I just wanted to get started on it and I think we've gotten some really good ideas um and um I I like I like councelor hani's idea of looking at sections of the guidelines and seeing I want to sit down with the guidelines again and see if you know how would we do that um to make it meaningful so but this has been very helpful um so uh I've been checking on the participants and uh we still have no public attendees other than Lynn so um there's really no need for public comment um and I don't think we saw the minutes I don't think Athena do we have the minutes I haven't seen the minutes of March 5th so I haven't had a chance to review them no no I don't I don't have them in the packet I I didn't have a chance to put a packet together but I do have drafts so I'll get those two okay thank you so um Kathy did you wanna yeah but I see Holly's hand went up so let's take Hol I was just going to comment that it looks like Lynn's hand is up in the attendees Okay Go Okay uh Lynn hi first of all I love this discussion about the guidelines and so forth but my rais my hand uh earlier because um I personally believe that it is important for every counsil counselor to be visible during a hearing about the school budget and uh as a counselor who would not be visible uh it makes doesn't make the audience feel like the rest of us are listening so uh it's always a decision of the chair of the committee and the committee as to whether or not they want to open that to as a committee of the whole but I strongly urge it because I think as I've said it's important for the public to know we are all listening thank you okay thanks thanks you Lynn uh it's a good thought um Kathy okay mine is just a few agenda item for when you're working with Paul and Athena and the rest of the able Town staff I would like to get some sense of the buildings and where they are in terms of fire station and sighting and we're in we are going to be we we see it in a spreadsheet but just schedule something when it makes sense so that we have it on the list that we can hear um whether there is a plan on making a decision so so that's it's just a request for an agenda item um for what I would call the missing buildings miss the plan for two more um you know I do know what the plan you know the plan as of five or six years ago but just you know trying to to get some sense of after I serve out my third term which will be seven years will I be leaving where there is actually momentum or will we still be talking about it so and that would be coupled with status of reserves you know um sort of money so just sort of a robust discussion that allows for discussion that's it it's an agenda item for when it makes sense but not next year no I agree has to be sooner rather than later I have the same questions that you have like where are we going with these buildings I mean we didn't see I didn't see the the fire station in this the uh jcpc report I think it's because it's a fiveyear plan so that I inferred it's in the tenure you know it's in it's in you know so and any case yes if that's what the plan is then we need to know because I think we've you know I had a constituents say when they moved here like 20 years ago 25 years ago they they were promised a fire station so Andy did you want to add yeah no I think that that this is actually a good add-on to the discussion to bring the capital projects in because it circles back to um the consequence of a regional budget being voted by the four towns that adds $800,000 to our budget because then we have to cope with how do we pay for it and it ultimately comes down to one of three things we devastate the municipal budget we U go to reserves and then affects the um capital projects or we ask for an override and see if the voters will will to go for that and there's timing questions with that one because if you do an override there's also when do you do the override how how does it get presented so this is a uh raising a whole lot of issues that I think that as a finance committee we need to um get our hands around in a real discussion when it's on the agenda and one of the factors that I just threw out there uh was the capital and if we um don't have a handle on the capital plan that Kathy was suggesting we need then um how do we address the question of what the effect would be of U making a decision to use um some of our current stabilization funds to um fund that $800,000 or 850 or whatever exact amount is um that be our share of the million dollar uh that the region would be voting that we would be obligated to pay so I um I think that it is important that we have that discussion and it may be important to have it soon enough that it is something that we can consider as we have this other discussion yeah I I I agree I think if we're going to have it we need to you know I'm looking at you know we're making a recommendation on the region school budget in the May 3r on May 3rd meeting we're going to have to have that discussion beforehand um so uh let me ask Paul Paul do you think that the U that that we'll have all the information available to you know well we have the projections um by that time in in the next sort of two to three weeks projections for uh on the school no no on the on the capital projects capital projects um it might be a challenge because we're really focused on the operating budget now um we're finishing up our budget hearings later this week um but I heard the entire discussion I totally agree with your assessment of the timing of things we're also our the bigger priority right now is to look at what a potential uh additional funding for the schools would look like we're projecting that out and projecting that out over multiple years what that looks like so we have a rough draft of that uh whether we could get it in April or not I can't guarantee that just given the the crunch of the budget uh but I understand you'd want it in certainly in May um okay all right good idea um anyone else have anything they want to say add okay well thanks it's didn't have that much to talk about today but uh I think thought our discussion was very good uh very helpful and um we'll uh try to get these things scheduled out over the next couple of meetings right with that I make a motion to adjourn okay yeah I was going to ask for that I'll second okay so we have a motion um Kathy yes Bernie support Matt support councelor Walker yes Andy yes Amy yes councelor hanii I all right we are adjourned at 3:15 pm. take care