##VIDEO ID:Y24646Sha-0## was like I no I didn't start recording without you but we're recording now please go ahead thank you okay so I'm gonna call this meeting of go to order at uh on December 19th 2024 at 6:32 p.m. I'm going to call on everyone on the committee to make sure they could hear and be heard let's start with Lyn grimer present George Ryan present councelor ete present and nathena and is here and I am here as well and my name is Anna okay so we are going to go ahead and get started um we have see no members of the public right now but this would be where we would do our call for public comment um couple things to touch on today um we've got our town manager goals to continue to discuss I want to have a quick just Rendevous with the committee about our upcoming agenda items and what the next couple months is going to look like for this committee and then we have one Proclamation tonight does that sound good to everybody okay so um in terms of timing um we'll save the last 15 minutes or so of the meeting for the proclamation I think the upcoming agenda items discussion will be relatively short so we'll spend the bulk of this meeting on the town manager goals and as we start in on this um what I want to just talk about is part of the conversation that we we had with the Council on Monday was about what is useful for go to put forward and then what is useful for the council to come together and discuss so I think that ultimately my my intention as chair is to recommend the council come together in a retreat where we look at every single action item because I do not think that this Committee of five or four will be able to recommend I don't think that it's should be the expectation of this committee to recommend something that's going to have consensus at the council um so I would like this committee to focus our time on getting things that are um not objectionable by how they're written um and to make sure that we've collected the input from folks But ultimately I think that what's going to happen is if this committee edits if this committee takes things out that counselors put in um we're going to go to the council and the counselors are going to ask to have them put back in if this committee puts things in the council is going to want to vote on them which it should it should vote on everything so my I wanted to get thoughts from from you all about our Focus as a committee being on let's make sure that this document is you know we we gathered some of the feedback but let's present it to the council for voting on on each item versus us trying to guess and trying to go around and edit what people have sent in I I don't think that that's a good use of our time Beyond editing it to fit kind of the the standards that we are we're putting stuff in you can come in stop sorry Sandy was barking at the door what are folks thoughts on this that those are my thoughts um but I'd love to hear from others George so we have a draft in front of us this evening and it's a draft that uh the entire Council now has seen so they're aware of what we have done and they've been invited to to submit written comments M and um so I think we're just going to work with this draft and um do our best to get it into the best shape we can I'd like us to take things out tonight I'd like us to to remove some things I'd like us to combine some things we have 39 action items last I counted something like that um and if people want to put more if they want to put something in at the council level fine um but um I think we should do our best to get this thing cleaned up as best we can and we should also try as much as we can to take things out um and combine things and if somebody says I mean they need to pay attention it's not our job to do their job so they've got a draft we're going to massage it tonight then we'll send it to them and we'll see what happens okay thank you uh Lynn um I think at a minimum we should try to condense as much as we can I mean George May um want to go further than I might but that's you know just difference of opinion but more importantly I think it is important for us to identify where there are new things being proposed and with the recognition that those new things would require dedicated resources whether that be money and staff or whatever because as I looked at the goals and the things that people have submitted there's a lot of new things and I think that that's where you know I I personally don't think the council needs to spend any more time on climate action except for maybe expanding that one area but on the others there's a bunch of new things and they will require a dedication of resources that's all thank you Athena with uh the committee's permission I'd like to offer a suggestion if uh folks are open to a suggestion sure so the the council went through a process over the past year where the president asked members to prioritize the goals to kind of help frame a conversation geared towards what the end result of the Town manager's work at the end of the year would be given the number of goals that are in the document at this point my personal feeling is that it's a lot um and the committee could recommend that the council do the same kind of process at this point early in the year to help call them during a retreat um so the committee might recommend the council not adopt the goals at the next meeting but hold a retreat and each counselor prioritizes the goals and that will help inform the conversation because if no counselor ranks a particular goal number one then that might help inform a decision to pull that goal because at the moment um I would venture to say that it's too many and some of them are probably easy easy to achieve and others are much bigger and it might help to identify not just what are the top priorities but what are the expectations what are the real expectations for achievement of that goal is achievement progress or is achievement completion and and that kind of thing so um I agree with a lot of the conversation that happened at the council meeting on Monday and is happening now that it's going to be really difficult for the four of you to create a document or edit this document in a way that the council will then go ahead and say yes that's perfect yeah I agree um so yes and I um that was the thought that I had about the retreat was why it would be helpful to come together as a body to look at what people were proposing and discuss it in in one place um I thought that that would be a better use of time than kind of go bringing it forward and reiterating constantly um and so I think yeah if we can get to a point where we have something to pitch to the council um I I agree I guess I'm a little bit thrown by the constant push for consolidation and I say that not because I don't think that this is too many goals but because I worry that in an effort to pursue a number we are weakening and making goals less actionable so um I would rather have more smaller more actionable goals than going back to what frankly what we had before which were Broad and we had more than 39 last time um broad murky goals so I do not feel in a a a pull towards a specific number I think that what we need to do is ask what's feasible and look at each one to see you know Big Goal medium goal small goal all of that to kind of gauge if it's doable and that's what we need to do in conversation with Paul so I I disagree with consolidation for the sake of consolidation I think that we should look at what's feasible um and not strike strive for a specific number or anything like that uh I agree Lynn I think that we should fill out that third column of whether something is new ongoing or not I think that that would be really useful um and that this committee could do that we did receive some comments back from um two three counselors uh and so I have those up and and uh am prepared to discuss them as well George so just a practical question with this action items column can anything go in here shouldn't everything that go in that goes in that column be something that's achievable in one year it should be or it should be specifically or hang on or yeah it should either be achievable in one year or we should specify what we expect to be done in the next year not necessarily the whole thing but what do we expect to be done in a year so the assumption is that whatever is in here however it's phrased is a one-year item even if the long it's going to go on for more years in this com yeah we have some editing to do to follow our own rule there right no exactly I understand and I appreciate that I like the idea of identifying what's new and what resources available to meet it asking that question I like the using the lens of feasibility um and I really really hope that we can get this down to a smaller number but we'll see um Athena and then Lynn one more thing I wanted to add and thank you for letting me participate in this part of the conversation um was that if the committee were to make a recommendation about a retreat to complete the work on the goals the the council's past practice has been to hold the election of the president and vice president at the first regular meeting um we haven't had a meeting before the first regular meeting in a new year yet but if the committee were to make that recommendation and if there were no objections from counselors we could try to schedule a retreat before that first meeting in January so that the council could act on goals at that first meeting in January okay um okay Lynn no I I've said all I need to thank you sorry sorry I looked off to the side and didn't see you sorry um Okay so for today then um I think how I want to use our time and I'm I'm seeking input from the committee on this but what I think would be a good use of our time is let's pull up the document and look at some of the feedback that I received from counselors um maybe and add that in so that we have an updated version to send to council and then I think we should spend some time figuring out what our recommendation is to council for a retreat um I don't know how in depth go needs to get with that Athena I'm I'm looking to you to kind of give your thoughts here on whether go should be giving an overarching this is how we should spend the retreat or whether go should be making recommendations even more specific than that um I really I do think that by the time we get to a retreat we should have a document that at the end of the day we are we can strive for consensus but this is a democratic body and and so at some point we're going to need to vote items up or down um and so I think go could make some recommendations for how to approach that if that's appropriate but I'm not sure if it is the um the recommendation to have to complete the work as a council at a retreat is just a is just my idea so it's up to the committee if that's something that you want to recommend or if you want to try and get through what you're doing tonight um if that's the case then I think further recommendation would be how to frame that Retreat and how to have the conversation so in order to have a retreat we need every counselor to fill out this thing that says here are your priorities these are the ones you know similar to what the president had done this past year rank the goals so we can go through them and that will help inform the conversation and then um maybe also ask Paul what he thinks is achievable and kind of rank them in the same way um one thought that I had in addition was that uh the council has a perspective that it has it doesn't know what it doesn't know and it might be worthwhile asking Paul if there's something missing from this list so I think getting his input as part of your recommendation as well as asking the counselors to do some work before that Retreat could be a valuable part of that conversation and help move things along at The Retreat if that were to be your recommendation um just my idea is not what you have to do no that's fair uh George again just a procedural question the uh comments you've received from other counselors can we weave them into the process as we move our way through the document rather than just have them dumped on us all at once because they're probably going to come they're going to be all over the place yeah what do you think would work best I'm open to either B um I have a document where I'm combining them um I that they had some at least one of the individuals who sent them asked that they not be placed in the packet directly just because they hadn't kind of sent it with that intention um so I I'm trying to figure out how to make sure I'm honoring that um at the same time as we need to discuss them so I'm I'm combining the docum you're not talking about mine are you no okay thank you um so I'm trying to figure out how to I I am planning on on having them all up um you want us to actually see them as opposed to you could just read them to us or I can just read them to you I will say I'm going to be reading them to you it would be helpful if someone else could pull up for um the original document to uh for us to edit um I will be glad to do that but are you gonna send me the one where you've condensed everything uh no because I'm going to read out the comments instead of putting them up on the screen since those people had asked that they not be specifically like their their direct comments in the even though some people didn't say that I can send you the ones who did um I I was just going to combine all of them so that I could add them in as we go I thought that might be you have a document with the ones that people sent you that they did not mind having them public okay um which by the way is definition that if they sent it to you it's public um the reality is um then you just keep back the one or the two that don't want them in the packet yep um okay I will give me one moment let me yeah I'm sitting with my email on okay so I can only seem to compare like a couple at a time um so I will send you this is robs and the original by Athena I'm sorry it's who's not Rob Bob hegner sorry oh okay sh up is Robert and S through me but you have mine handy right I have yours handy yes all right s that yeah because it's you can't really combine more than two without it mushing all of the comments together I guess my thought on is as we go through this document um you have the comments in front of you and just as if they were present you could just say you even have to give a name if you don't want to but counselor X you know says this on this item now if they that was my thought too that was sorry that was um but I think what Lynn was saying is not everyone had um not everyone had said they didn't want their comments brought up so she wanted the ones that didn't mind I uh I mean we're GNA speak our comments this evening and we're not gonna typed up on the screen so I don't okay I actually I think Lynn I've got um I've got comments from Bob and Mandy and you um if you want to just pull up the original that I think that George's plan might be easier so I can come in with input as we go but so why you just sent me the one with um the edits from the other night and Bob hegner yeah I think that it's going to be more confusing if you have some counselor edits but not all so um do you have just I can I think it was sent to you it was sent to um the council from Athena on Monday I can the version okay um I have that and I'm glad we're looking at that because I have one serious question okay um okay on the screen I assume this is the version you're talking about um yeah that's I think that's what and I'd love to know what this meant and I think it was supposed to say or the goals and themes that's not a sentence no I'm not sure what that edit was what it said originally is the gold areas are overarching them and um well then overarching are overarching themes identifying priorities for the town I don't recall us deleting from that section I don't know why that's there I don't know yeah I don't yeah I mean it's just was there a problem with the original statement I didn't see it but Rey has his hand up oh I'm sorry councel go ahead [Music] um is the a reason why we are working on this since this seems to be more a statement from the chair or is this a statement from go this is from Council really ultimately at the end of the day this is the intro paragraph This is I sent it in initially but we could take my name off it does not my name does not need to me on it so your understanding is when we vote on this we're also voting on the this sort of Preamble yeah I mean that was similarly to the executive summary and the financial guidelines I thought it was important I'm just trying to remember this shows you where I'm at that whether we went through this very carefully well we did we went through this and and let me just point out here's the things we changed we changed this title right we added in Town Council here right we made those are the basic things we changed no problem and then we changed them below and then below what you have is the changes in climate action that we made during the meeting but the question is do we now accept these right yeah and in this area I mean there was um so uh a counselor said they wanted to delete update the amoris bicycle and pedestrian Network plan goal and I think this is why I don't want us to honestly I think go airing on the side of put everything in and then the council voting to take it out is going to be simpler than one counselor saying to go take it out another counselor saying go put it in and go being the Arbiter of that decision um where is that where is that that's not in his SE that was a com I got from a counselor well and we can discuss it as we should and I may have some thoughts on that as well and in the end we'll decide what we want to do oh I scooted down Sor I'm sorry it seems to me that if a counselor wants something in and it's not in there they need to speak up well they need they will but they'll speak up at The Retreat okay if we have a retreat then they'll speak of the retreat good councelor councelor um two quick points one is the text seems small so if it could be I will do what I can to insert it I mean layout on view under view I think view thank you thank you yeah and I think and that's for the two are we looking at the 2025 Town manager goals Preamble or are we jumping straight into to the goals themselves I'm going to suggest we jump to the goals and worry about the Preamble later but I will say that if you have thank you for that suggestion um I will say councelor if you have edits I'd love to if you could send them to me as track changes that would be really helpful um especially if they're if they're smaller grammatical edits that would be great um because we can make those faster here than at the council yeah big grammatical edits okay yeah if you want to send me a track changes version I welcome that that's why I did send it to the committee to try to get feedback but um I welcome those changes Lynn I misspoke that the bicycle plan wasn't under climate action I had scrolled by accident okay so just take that out right okay comes later I forget yeah okay and then the other question was whether or not we just wanted to say this here and drop this one or leave this one in but be more specific well go ahead I'm sorry so this was why we had put the um the report from ecac in our packet a while back um because we wanted to look at it to see what they were pulling out and they gave specific priority areas um so I'm just trying to pull that up really quick um so there are things in there that I think we could easily put in um it just seems arbitrary I mean we're just going to grab one or two items why not three items why not five items why one item why six items um I just don't see yeah it just I'm not qualified to make you know whatever you choose I'm going to resist because what about something else um and we spend the next two hours discussing it but then the issue George is that then nothing is in here if we do not and then how if we are the body that that dictates the priorities for the town manager not our committees our responsibility is to uplift what our committees are asking us to do and this is where we as councilors have the choice to do that or not and I think we should and I do think that we should pick ones that feel most firmly in the realm of the Town Manager work which I do think we can do and you can disagree with me and that's fine but I think that ultimately if if committees don't get to set their own goals for the town manager that's the council's job and if committees need the town manager to focus on something in order to pursue the goals that we've tasked those committees with we should be supporting when they ask us to put those forward councelor ete um thank you for that point it's something that I wanted to raise is if we look at the annual report which is the last page what we're going to see on the town manager goal suggestions is really out of the seven that EAC wants to work with the town manager on climate goals and so maybe we don't need to pick maybe the action item might just be work with ecac and then at the end of the year we have an opportunity to read what the town manager has done and what ecac says has been done and compare notes in that case I think it is the council's role in a way to make that choice we are qualified not in terms of the scientific material but because we have a duty to the town in a way that ecac doesn't have ccor ran I'm just going to make a suggestion and see what the rest of you think um I would keep the language that is St stricken at the moment under the objective and I would remove the fourth item and then we're left with three specific action items that we should discuss in terms of whether they're doable and resources Etc I do not want to spend any time going through the ecac report or any other report tonight trying to pick out two or three items and throw them in here and see what happens so I would suggest taking out leaving the language that's stricken in under objective and removing the last item and what frea was suggesting was uh leaving this one in but have it be more like work with ecac to identify and act on or something like that let's councel your hand is up thank you Lynn that is exactly my point we already we are doing that in the documents there are several um places where the town manager is um is not requested but we would prefer that the town Manager work with some specific entities I think we could do the same in this case in that sense then we don't have to prioritize councelor Ryan and then I would try to apply the criteria that we're supposed to be using for Action items and and I don't think how I don't see how you can apply them to this this is just a uh perfectly reasonable but huge list of things that no single one thing uh we asking him to focus on we're just saying you know so it again it seems to violate the whole Spirit of what action items are supposed to be so so yes I apologize I didn't mean to cut you off that's all right go ahead I agree that this doesn't follow our own rules and I'm trying to be better at making sure we follow our own rules cuz I'm trying to be a stickler about it um I do think that when we look at the Town manager goal suggestions from ecac we could say uh you know so later on in the document we'll get to counselor comments that specify we should have a number of meetings the town manager should have with counselors per year etc etc while we do have excellent staff support for ecac it seems that and and I guess Athena I'm I'm actually GNA ask for your thoughts here too I don't want to overstep the the staff support that ecac has but if ecac is seeking the town manager um consult like they they want the town manager to consult them regarding specific programs would it be reasonable to say you know the town manager should meet annually with ecac to talk about the promoting the PACE program or things like that um the way that they're seeking can we specify twice per year is is that appropriate or no uh go ahead Athena the ecac makes recommendations to the council no that's right yes yes yes um so for them to request for the council to tell the town manager that they that he has to sit with ecac I mean I think it's like I think we're this is creating a pretzel in my mind yeah um and um my thought is if the ecac has recommendations about how something is done how something is implemented or anything else they can make those to the town manager even if it's not in their purview they can make those to the council even though it's not in the council's purview nobody has to do anything with it but insisting that the town manager sit with the committee I think opens the door for lots of other committees to ask for his time too and I think that could be a slippery slope and I don't want to speak for him he can speak speak to his own time um but I but I think it's a it it creates a confused process where for the last five years I've been trying really hard to clarify how committees work how the legislative process works where things go how they come back who recommends what to who and so forth so um I I can't say that I love that idea no no no it's fine I I think I was trying to help untangle the pretzel a bit in my mind and as I'm looking through the goals there are specific programs that they're talking about so um and basically what they're saying is uh kind of like when we when the council wrote the charge for the solar bylaw we specified a member of ecac should be on the committee for that they're saying things like that is is what they want which that's a council call not for committee creation but the other specific program they mention is the PACE program and they talk about utilizing ecac as a resource to help promote the PACE program um so I I mean I think that that's where it's maybe it's so minor that we don't need it in here um I I just my concern is I don't want to sometimes with these goals it can feel like because sometimes it it is stated that if something's not in the goals it can't be pursued and My worry is that Lynn I I vehemently disagree with you that we have done what we need to do with regards to climate action goals I think there's an incredible amount more we could be doing but is you you know are we cutting ourselves off at the knees here by not leaving space for things to come up um as as ecac's fit so I I'm fine I guess if we want to take this out it's not specific that's fine um I think the parts where it is yeah that's I I'll stop there um councelor Ryan your hands up doing this on the Fly um there's a process ecac reports to the council it can Lobby um the council can Lobby Paul um the fact that none of us are in a position to speak directly to their um recommendations is on us um not on them though so that we can't resolve that tonight and I don't think we should and I think again I think this should come out George I'm confused by you saying that because they did Lobby Us by submitting this report and we are looking at it so we are we're not we're we're just I mean well okay okay sorry um Athena thank you I I wonder if if asking the council to include a town manager goal that tells the town manager to consult with ecac to promote a program is like circumventing working with the committee's staff liaison this is something that I'm working on with the charter Review Committee as well it's you know the the Committees make requests of Staff liaison and staff liazon works with the rest of the Town staff to see if that's something that can be done if if the committee feels that they want to work with staff to promote the PACE program and staff isn't doing that we don't know why we don't even know that they aren't doing that um so I'm you know I feel like it's it's kind of circumventing a normal process and again making things feel a little pretzel shaped terms who's doing what yeah that was my original question um thank you uh councelor ete I think I was being too consiliary to counselor Ryan um I if we go back to the document and we look at the Town manager suggestions in what I have in front of me they are several of the items that I don't think we should be working on um and so in a way I think yes we should I'll join councilor Ryan in taking out that section but for a different reason I think it would help us if we move past that and go on to more substantive things okay so I think that we are taking out the section Len are we leaving this in and I think you'd have to leave that other language in then because I do think it's important that we recognize the role of carp either under the objective or as an action item as an action item it just seems so Broad and so unfocused um in specifics that it really doesn't belong as an action item but it's certainly part of our long big picture vision is carp um and how individual aspects of this get realized is a is athenus pointed out is a complex process involves the council ecac involves the sustain sustainability director also involves advocates for climate action in the town um unless someone has some specific concrete um uh you know action that they think the town should take related to climate action wherever they got it whether it's from ecac or whoever else and then this should not be here here um so that's yeah I like the way it looks there all right um so there is a comment on I think that we know there's going to be a lot of discussion regarding the inclusion of solar bylaw and battery storage um we will I that that is not I do not believe but I'm open to this committee's disagreeing with me I do not believe that is a discussion for this committee to have I think that is one that we need to have at the council because I think that's just going to come down to a vote of whether or not that's in there or not you mind if I put in these columns where they're new um I where it's where we're going to put status yeah no that's fine well for the moment maybe it'll help with discussion I'm not sure it should go in well I don't know no I don't mean long term I'm trying to just do something to it this goes to the council eventually I assume when it gets cleaned up um and we have to decide if we want that in there but yeah for now it might be helpful are we ready to move on no we're not um I'm sorry uh the first the very first item maybe it's me I can't read at this hour of the night but I do not understand the English um the phrase and priorities in the next three years for transitions this got messed up I don't know what that means so this statement was supposed to be saying well yeah put it how you like it and well I I had it how I liked it so I I want to clarify what I what we me because this was the committee so what we meant and then figure out if it's still saying that because I'm not sure it is okay we have a capital inventory um the capital inventory was initially we had this goal of um include this plan to transition like make the plan to transition our vehicles over but what we talked about in this committee with Paul was that we aren't ready to make a plan to transition because we don't know what it is that the what criteria we have to H what criteria we have to make that transition so for example we can't say in three years we'll have an electric snowplow because we don't know what criteria there are for electric snowplows we don't know what exists so instead of the plan being in three years we switch to an electric snowplow it would be we once there is a reasonably priced electric snowplow we will switch over in two years or we will switch over in one year like it's it's basically saying this is what's needed in order to get us to a three-year transition plan but much of this is not available yet so what we had initially said was update the capital inventory to include criteria for the transition of municipal buildings Vehicles equipment away from the away from the use of fossil fuels uh and the priorities for transitions so basically saying what do we want to transition first and what do we need in order to transition um I don't think three years needs to be in there uh I think we had had three years in the past as as like a that's when we want it to be um or we were just saying basically Focus three years out to give kind of a guard rail um I don't feel want to include let me see if I can help myself and you as well you want to include criteria for transition and you also want to include the priorities uh that will govern these transitions yes that will that priority so you want and the priorities that will govern um the transitions could we just say yeah go ahead could we just say the use of fossil fuels and a plan for transition no because we don't know that that plan is feasible to put in place so it's not he may not be able to tell us the plan about a plan where feasible hang on so can we instead of this could we say to include criteria and priorities for the transition of Municipal can we just move it to the beginning of the sentence would that help clarify this I'll try it and so then the sentence would end after fossil fuels should I read it out loud just for fun update the capital inventory to include criteria and priorities for the transition of municipal buildings vehicles and Equipment away from the use of fossil fuels I think that does it is this something that's doable in a year is this something that Paul Paul said at our meeting Paul said this was doable it was the the issue was that a plan for transition was not doable because we hadn't even established the criteria so right now we just want the criteria and then we want to prioritize that what would go first next year maybe we can say okay make a plan but right now yeah go ahead yeah I I want to suggest that not everything here is going to be achievable but you can make progress on it okay well I guess the bottom line is it's something we wanted to do this coming year and yes I'm I'm not I guess this is something we want him to do in the coming year so yes obviously we can go to a vote but I think we we had the list of make the transition plan for so long and it was progress is sort of being made progress is sort of being made I'm trying to figure out Lyn what actually is achievable to get us feeling like we've got something to look at so somebody says okay with this was the goal and we've established that criteria and thus far we've you know these are the priorities but you know we still have some more work on the priorities how do we feel about that well then at if we're doing a I mean yeah that's where it gets that's where it gets I think personally this is and based on our conversation with the town manager this was feasible within the year um but if if not and we can run these by him again we should um okay but that's my thought um any other comment yeah I'm sorry sorry no you're good um there was initially a comment on this just saying you know what is this I think we answered that um clearly at Council Paul seemed to be okay with this he responded to it he he explained what it was briefly it came from his staff great again maybe doesn't even need to be in here but the St it does it does stop all right all right anyway I mean it'll happen whether it's in here or not I mean it's not as if they sit in their offic with on a wall and going oh wait a minute that's not there so just you don't know what his house looks like but can give him credit for it and this is something that did get brought up at Council when we were talking about last year we did the opt-in energy code this is kind of a Next Step that we can take so I think for those reasons it also aligns with our our Poli and it's aligned with the carp and all of that good um this next one I think is as good as go is going to get it to be honest with you I think we've just talked about that I do too I don't that we are gonna so the issue is what whether there should be specific references to specific bylaws is that the issue what's the or is it is it a particular that's part of the issue but the bigger issue is the particulars of it I think the council understands why we have specifics in here it's the particulars of it so for example a comment you know just talked about what the uh the climate bill that the governor just signed and the impact of that um and whether or not it's a good use of our time to focus on this if the the bill is going to just say no which it kind of does okay if I make one final comment this is in relation to something that Athena mentioned earlier in the meeting um imagine we had to prioritize these three items I have no idea what I would do I I think you know and I think it's going to be true as we go through this document but maybe I'm alone in this and everybody else could easily say oh that's one that's two that's three um but yeah I think George if you had a bucket of 10 dots and you got to wait your priorities you got to give EV all your dots in one place or distribute them however I think that you would see one dots all over the place but um that which by the way this is a method that I highly recommend Council consider um just thinking of the last time I had to do this I get paid to do this I get paid and I I'm somebody I'm your Mor nightmare I know and I just walk away I just walk I know I know ladies gentlemen it is already 45 minutes into the I am aware thank you but George the point is I think that well you may not have strong priorities within I agre okay let's move on thank you let's move on thank you okay um so we're are now onto community health safety Community Health Community safety and social justice okay fine have you ever heard the the saying that a camel is a horse designed by committee yeah we um Okay so we've got questions um there's some some questions some suggestion to remove the senior center Ada van uh so I think that'll just be discussion at the council um I actually uh in my things I I um uh I said develop a plan for addressing critical SCA space and program needs at the senior center including an I like that it combines them and I'd like it's still in there but it combines them into one and if somebody wants to take it out or part of it they can bring it up so if we could just combine those including an ADA accessible Transportation program that runs five days a week okay um is this getting too much into the weeds I don't know that's a debate we're going to have to have at Conant but it's specific and at the end of the year we could say whether it happened or it didn't yep I I didn't have a problem with your Ada van thing I thought it was really really specific any money or who knows what but and was I think that was the reason why um the that was the question there right how are we going to pay for it right um so there was an added suggestion uh here um which I'm gonna read it so it said provide training regarding racial Equity rights and other options to the Town Council employees and members of the public so we had had something similar um specific to onboarding I think in the in the area below that was for new hires yes yep um why are we talking about that here I don't because it was specifically about racial Equity rights and other uh options so it was on this topic and it was to the council employees and members of the public well it's in here somewhere but it's where is it um no maybe it's not in here so have access to continuing education and then incorporate non-discrimination and implicit biases into onboarding so we put it firmly within the municipal or Administration and Leadership right um and this this comment I think that we should put it in here for the council to discuss um this is saying that it should be provided to council public and employees all right hold on I'm going to add it in I can read it again again if you'd like please give it to me again provide training regarding racial Equity comma rights comma and other options to the Town Council Equity did you say equity and rights equity comma rights and other options to the Town Council oh sorry employees and members of the public now I know you don't want us to word Smith and maybe that's where we'll just leave this but I have no idea what other options means quite sure what rights means here I I can understand racial Equity train or training relate to racial Equity I have no idea what training regarding rights is and I don't know what other options is so um maybe just leave it as it is and we'll let the council at Retreat or some other let him chew on it there I think can we add a comment in Lynn that says needs more specificity uh I think no I think we just leave it I mean unless people think I don't know what we do if we have new suggest s um I think it's within the purview this Council to reject them it's perfectly within our purview to just say well you made this suggestion and we just didn't put it in and then it's up to the counselor to bring it up at some higher level but maybe the best the most diplomatic strategy unless it's really something we can't understand we'll just leave it in there new yeah sorry Lyn um this is one of those in which we have an awful lot of goals I mean of I know I know I know but what it is huge I know and interestingly enough only well no though several of them are new four of them are new yeah and I like to talk about the new ones if we get a chance but I think that I I mean George do you want to talk about them with us or do you want to talk about them I want talk with you because maybe they come out here or maybe they can get combined and also I have to make a rationale for them and if you're not impressed by the rationale as a committee you can just throw it out think that's fine but we do need to talk about it happy to discuss I I mean and nothing is new here since we've discussed it last I think my issue is that these aren't ads necessarily from us so we don't get to hear the rationale um from the counselors who sent them in that's why they're going to have to make that case either at The Retreat or at the council right you're saying let's leave it in so that they can make the case that's that is my thought because otherwise we're just going to to deal with why' you take it out I'm going to put it back in um Lynn can you scroll up for a second there was a a larger comment on this one that I wanted to just tell read the committee says um I did not see and so this was a comment under the objective uh objective here under Community Health Community safety um I did not see anything in the action items relating to food insecurity Medical Care and police Fire EMS all of which impact Community Health Community safety and social justice perhaps add goals related to the emmer survival center m s Center and keeping police fire EMT staff numbers up there's also an overlap between Community safety and capital projects such as the new Fire Station in South ammer and community and strategic relations such as UMass donating ambulance but I don't know how to address these overlaps um this committee and counselors who sent in goals didn't have any specific ones relating to food insecurity medical care or police Fire EMS um this councelor did not suggest any I think they were just noting that um but Lynn I don't know if we need to I don't know if we need to add that in I just want I wanted to share it with the committee there was no suggestion of a goal it was just a I don't see anything and perhaps add but there wasn't the suggestion of them so if this I wanted to know if this committee has one otherwise I can let this counselor know this committee didn't come up with anything but they are welcome to send one in but I don't think that we should add in the comments here um I mean we're supposed to be talking about actual action items um and I understand they made a comment about the general you know what's generally missing or what's not here which is nice but if they don't have an actual item they want to put in it and we did I just I wanted to ask we don't have any to offer ourselves so we have any to offer right no I I don't at this time councelor ate I was searching for this in administration and Leadership we have maintain and continue to improve the delivery of Municipal items actually I'll come to that when we get to that can hardly wait for that one too maybe reason I think already covers that yeah I think so um I I mean and I think the one point that I thought was interesting is this Council has focused so much on housing we have not talked about food insecurity um I I don't have a specific to offer I just I did note that it's not a conversation we often have because I think we have Community organizations that right I mean the major the major way we deal with food insecurity is to give money to other organizations right exactly we're not and I think that's getting beyond the the goals but and well we used to have goals in here about the mobile market they were achieved right like that's I guess it's not something we've never talked about so um Fair okay um we start at the top and work our way down this list please I want jum I'm not trying to jump around I wanted to just read that that initial comment I'm going down down the my list I apologize so um can you go back up Lin I think all right there weren't any comments on the one um there was a comment on continue to undertake a review of Public Safety protocols uh the question was how would this be measured based on our P nitin of how do we know that this has been achieved in a year um so again if we don't have a specific thing that needs to be accomplished we automatically give a checkbox for this and we automatically say yeah like and I know George you're going to say it's not all about the evaluation but no no no no I have a very specific suggestion to make an item um strike continue to undertake and insert complete this has been going on long enough so the what we're asking the town manager to do as an action item for the coming year is complete a review of Public Safety protocols boom okay agree that complete the review thank you all right sounds good um I don't know where the next one came from but we'll discuss that at counil um is this the youth committee yeah and cost and and all that I mean Lynn raised a very good point how would it be paid and um well so and and there were suggested edits to that which was um to add in for lgbtq plus Youth and bipo residents so after Council it would say for lgbtq plus boy I really object to this use and bipac residence so and then it says uh nope sorry that that uh the first that goes after the first instance of council advisory Council so just before the end of the first Clause okay so create an appoint advisory Council for lgbtq plus so this is for obviously okay fine and that what this counselor explained was that we constantly are saying we need to do youth Outreach we need to do Outreach to the bipac residents we need to do Outreach to lgbtq plus community and uh the counselor suggested that having a commission um or Council excuse me advisory Council would be a more efficient way to seek that input that is not what northampton's is northampton's is all youth just to be clear okay I just I just met some of them the other night and it's so it's a youth Council and it's welcome to all youth in the community it's not specifically targeted a particular group of the members of the community and uh again the question is just staff resources money time is this a is this a problem does Paul want to weigh in does anybody have any knowledge as to how much staff time this would take and who would undertake it um who would Paul appoint to do this who would take who would undertake this I that's we're not going to have that discussion that's why I put the word new okay so we have that discussion somewhere else we don't have it here okay I want to count call on counselor ate but could we put in the edits that this counselor requested for discussion I would re I would not want to do that okay if they want to raise it at Council fine or if they want to do it retreat but I would not be comfortable um with that myself it's four not of those are different okay we're gonna put it in anyway all right well because George I guess here's the thing though George I I hear you and okay that's all right just put it people are sending me their edits like I'm asking them to and and then I think it's if we're in just because they make just because they a comment doesn't mean it gets into the document I mean we just ask for their comments and we look at them and we listen and we discuss and then we make our decision we're the committee they're not um soig to put would we like to do a straw poll as a committee as to whether to include this insertion or not I think we need to decide are we just going to Pile in everybody's comments and try to resolve wherever there's differences and if we are then we're leaving it like this I am inclined to now go back to raising hands because councelor at's hand has been up for a while and he has not been able to speak he's just poite or the rest of us are just rude counselor that's true I would I would say I am rude that is correct and impatient um who I am put putting that back in is not just putting that back in right now it's putting something that we had taken out because it was initially in and we took it out because it was vague and imprecise and it didn't seem to cohere with that entire um piece and so I I am inclined not to have that in and if it's going to a case could be made during Council and I would like to see that case on how you're going to have on one hand a youth um committee or Council and at the same time add some specific groups so we already took it out we're putting it back in which I think defeats the purpose and the work that we had already done I hear what you're saying and I think that what's clear to me is that our process generally is challenged by the fact that this whole thing goes back to council and if we don't put it in here it will just get added and back at Council again um and then the council will discuss it I'd rather have a full do I would rather air on the side of putting in more suggestions and having people take them out at Council than having to go through and say you took this out but you didn't take this out you took you know I I think if we can lend specificity to it that's helpful but I think to I do think to remove something that someone has tried again and again to put in and not have a full Council discussion on it is just redundant um because they think they're just going to bring it back up I I do want to point out one quick thing Lynn that is not what the the comment said exactly and I just just want to clarify um for lgbtq plus comma youth comma and bipac residence uh George go ahead well I've already said it so this is our document ultimately comes from our committee so okay we get we make the decisions if they don't like it they can do whatever they want but which they did they I'm I'm reading out the comments that folks sent in again um they sent it in again um if this committee chooses to strike it we can strike it but I think we need to then just do we just do a quick straw poll now if we want to strike it or not um and and hear what folks have to say Lynn since we didn't discuss it at the council I think we should just leave it in and move on okay um just one more quick edit it's similar in structure to the Northampton youth advisory Council um and we did have a question from another counselor asking what would this council do so clearly this will be a conversation um and then the other comment was should we do this should it be here or who appoints should it be move to leadership or Community relationships I think we can leave all those off okay um George so is it appropriate for me or any of us to ask the question Who on staff is going to do this and how much it's going to cost for any of these items not just for this but for anything so I will ask this question Who on staff do we imagine would take this on I don't know the answer to that this was not my that's troubling to me okay all right so we're know right right and I don't like I don't like well it wasn't again I didn't I'm I'm the messenger in this particular instance um Lynn before you scroll past this last one um this the same question is that George was just asking about the prior one was asked about this one of what is the cost um how extensive is this are both of these and can they both be done in the same year it seems to this is a this is a question for all of these so I don't see repeating it it has to be a filter through which we make decisions cost yes I do think the question of can you do both in a year is uh a logistical question about this program that I don't know I'm confused what both what what are we talking about we're talking about the complete streets to yeah I didn't know that I didn't realize we were talking about that I had no idea what we were talking about um I would like to speak to this since this is I'm the one to put it in and I actually I'm here George please speak to it but but know that you're going to have to speak to it again at Council because yeah go ahead I know well yeah this item and the previous item are related to What's called the complete streets program complete streets program is something that we started to get ourselves into we did the first step there are two steps remaining the two items in here are the two steps that remain that would allow us to apply for funding up to $500,000 over a 4-year period for the kinds of things that for instance we're going to be doing at the East Comet so this is not just something arbitrarily thrown in here just because we got nothing else to do um it is geared to help us get some money to pay for What's going to be a very expensive um streetscape project uh outside of the school and and East common so these two could be put together um they require the work of uh DPW and staff and probably um if it's created by this time the transportation and parking commission Andor Tac um but it it doesn't cost that much I don't know about money but it will take some staff time and in my conversations with staff it is doable um so that would be my argument at Cil and that's my argument here and that's why it is here and it might make sense to combine them into one item because they're both um necessary one way is just to say complete the complete streets process for the the town of amest but I think it's helpful to be more precise yeah so I agree Lyn I wouldn't I wouldn't put that in yet sorry yeah I wouldn't I think that would be replace these two um but uh so I would take this one and the other one and put them in a single item which other one are you talking about uh where is it I don't know it's somewhere in here um because George if if there this is where this is where I have trouble with numbers of goals versus content of goals I would rather have two smaller goals broken out separately uh like if it's the bicycle and pedestrian safety plan I'd rather have that as a separate item and then this as another than combine them into one um I it's the same amount of work it's just broken out into two steps so if if unless yeah that's that's how I'm looking at the consolidation here that is the other item minutes in here SE and maybe if you could at least put them next to each other so that that when we talk about it they would be one usually these were alphabetized that was how they were organized um even though that led to more problems for me but they can go in whatever order it doesn't matter I would ask that as a favor but I'm not gonna mess with that right now no no no I I will do that don't I was not asking you um before we go the but I wouldn't move that just time check 7:30 thank you I see it I there was a comment here that said might also add an action item to reduce speed limits to 25 mph hour on additional densely settled roads um this isn't something that the town manager does in my understanding of the law um so I'm unclear on how this would be a town manager goal it seems to me that it however we need to work with our staff to do the work to get there don't we would probably come through TSO it it's a it would be Council request um it's not something the manager right so but then once the council makes the request DPW and police need to do some work there's a there's a whole process that I've sent along to this counselor um counselor ete if the council makes a request oh add that to the you're saying add that to the thing what should it say please I was it was talking ch but perhaps we could add that because if the council doesn't make the requests the town manager can't do anything about it yeah Fair um there's no sense putting that in all of these or if the council makes a request right again just we're trying to get priorities we're trying to say these are things that really are important we want Paul to focus on and uh we can't get into hypotheticals can I please have somebody repeat that sentence for me it's not even phrased as a goal but yes um okay to uh reduce speed limits to 25 miles an hour on additional densely settled roads I think next time the way we should do this is everyone submits their goals and puts their name next to it new process so that we have to speak to them at Council clearly if I may I thought we just agreed that this is not something the town manager can do so how can we put it into the goals yeah so I I think that this is something if we're airing on the side of putting everything in I will go to the matap for this one coming out because this is dictated by more laws than we have control over and is not something that the the manager can do on his own council is absolutely correct that this is an if the council requests it and some of these are the council requesting it right like this is saying that the council is now requesting this because they don't require a formal request from the Council um like complete the complete streets program right that doesn't need a formal my understanding is that doesn't need a formal referral or anything from the council whereas this action would um and I hesitate to put it in here and have that be construed as a request from Council when there's so much more that would need to be discussed about it but I don't know isn't that our job is as this go knowing what is what to sort of filter this a bit as opposed to just putting everything in the kitchen s in here yeah I think I can reach back out to this counselor in particular because they hadn't proposed it as an actual goal and say please send me the actual goal language if they would like Lynn either we put it in everything that is in here is the council asking the town manager to do something right so it doesn't matter whether we have to ask him through a special way or through the goal set we have to ask so it doesn't matter at this case it's if it's a goal it means Town resources are going to be used that's all okay so what is the sentence that is the sentence reduce speed limits on densely settled rows to 25 miles per hour okay got it are there any others for this one um the other comment someone said they don't know what Youth Empowerment means what's the objective I think that's going to be a discussion at yes um and then other one was sorry I'm trying to um the bicycle pedestrian and network plan the suggestion was to it should include a schedule and cost estimate for building out such a net a network so I think that's the same comment as before we need to talk about cost I don't think that there's anything beyond there AG um and then one of the other comments about Youth Empowerment was that the is less important than starting master plan work um there was a suggestion to add in Begin work on the master plan due to which is due to start in what two years is that right 20 it is um so that was a suggested Edition sorry George somehow it's getting longer yes I mean this is this is really kind of sad but that's what it is I guess well but it's it's not your fault it's just what it is but it's it will be called I think Prett aggressively I I yeah we'll see okay um okay I think that looks like I mean work has begun on the master plan it's in the department it's in the hands of the planning department um as soon as the planning director is appointed uh it will proceed it's it I don't know what we're telling him here this is not right and what what in the next year is supposed to be accomplished well we don't know because we don't actually uh do the actual work that involves working and creating the master plan um process complicated process requires a lot of resources including an outside committee right um pause for one second I realized I was I was missing something I I'm really sorry can we jump back up to the crest one um there was a suggestion of uh adding at the end and present to the council for discussion and possible action and someone to remove that should we REM I think we should remove that Su adding it back in it's in there if I did I didn't mean to I wanted I was reading your your comment yeah there you go all all someone wants to take it out all right all of these are present to the council and look for possible next action um and then the other comment was on the bicycle and pedestrian Network plan um oh no that was just proposing to delete that sorry um all right I think we're done with that on all fronts from my end in terms of comments okay so this was where I Lyn I apologize I there's so many comments they're getting messy um the master plan goal action item was intended to be under housing and economic Vitality Begin work on updating the master plan um there was a question regarding the meet with UMass yes uh regarding how is this measured I think yeah and I had a suggestion um to try and make this more concrete or specific I don't know what people will think about it but it kind of relates to the question of how you're going to measure it yeah um and the suggestion was language to the effect of essentially developing um how's it phrased maybe identify New Economic Development and housing opportunities in conversation with or you could begin you know in conversation with UMass amers college and Hampshire College identify New Economic Development and housing opportunities including Parcels for possible Housing Development George I think that's fine I was going to add a minimum of twice per year to make it a a measure um that I believe is what's dictated in our strategic partnership agreement with UMAS specifically we don't have them with the other two colleges but uh my suggestion was to add in a minimum of two times per year so maybe have the top meet at a minimum of two times a year with so you could put it the time reference at the very top meet annually twice annually add a minimum I guess do identify New Economic Development and housing opportunities comma including I guess you could repeat identifying again I hate that but that's all right that's me um identifying Parcels for possible Housing Development now yeah and it could just be focused on housing this this is economic vitility and housing but it could just be let's just for this coming year let's just focus on housing that's another thought counc has his hand up I see I was letting councelor Ryan finish councelor go ahead oh you're fine counselor a go ahead is the measurement the number of times or is the measurement the identification of housing opportunities yeah My worry is that we can't it's not only the town manager's prerogative to identify housing opportunities and so I don't think that should be the measure I think that we can only dictate that he meet with them and try uh and so I think the measure should be the twice annually and that this is the topic but I I worry about having the measure B having identified that because we know that that's not on him should we use should we put the word to identify possible New Economic IC development and housing opportunities well we have possible at the in for the housing but take it away there okay just put it all for bothy possible New Economic Development housing [Music] opportunities and maybe leave it at that that address your concern standed opportunities I I I don't think so I do know that two is quite measurable but on the other hand it's possible that nothing gets done yeah the meetings that we are aware of um and if we remove the time to focus on identification I'm not sure that that would persuade some of the counselors who want something more robust so I I I don't I I think it's good that we have both the time and the identification but this like many of the things in this list would be I'm looking forward to the discussion on it this one's hard because it's where's the control line yeah all right we a little bit more time on this um there were questions about the cost associations with some of these [Music] um and um sry I'm sorry we're talking about the next two items now uh yeah I'm trying to catch up on comments here um there are some suggestions for deleting okay uh there was a comment at the bottom um on the proposed revisions to zoning bylaws uh the bottom one to support economic development that said the comment said Housing Development alone will not change the dynamic of how development is unfolded with an overwhelming focus on student housing in my opinion we need a greater focus on developing homes for long-term year- round residents but I realize Others May disagree um again that was just a comment so I think I will rely on that counselor to bring that forward at the council meeting this was something G had talked about we consciously changed this away because we talked about what was under the control of the town manager right um I'm sorry yeah go ahead no no no go ahead I just had a comment for the final item but I'll wait no go go ahead that was it that was all I had so it says propose propose revisions to the zoning bylaws that would oh I'm sorry that's it's the F we're yeah it's propos revision to the zoning bylaws to increase and support economic and Housing Development where supported by the master plan or is a recommendation or a suggestion and I just wanted to throw it out there and actually for the thoughts of this committee did you say that again dor just add the phrase at the end we're supported by the master plan I like that is this here yes the very that's right we are supported by the master plan I like that yeah I do too I think it might um make it more palatable to certain people thank and maybe not but that was just a suggestion okay okay um anything else under this I have gone through all my comments on housing no let's move on to Administration leadership all right so um excuse me there was a broad comment on this category that said there's very little to here to address concerns staff have brought forward um why are we not adding specifics related to that concern and then they had several suggested um additions that I think some of which I think we deleted and they're asking be put back in um including speed up the hiring process for vacant positions um and then we had this was I can't tell why it's not here when it was deleted um we had offer access to continuing education supervision and Leadership training to all Town staff it's up above explore strategic options Mak more attractive Town blah blah blah okay um so because this person had wanted to add ensure all Town staff are offered and have access to continued Continuing Education and Leadership training but I think that that is what that's what this is yeah because we we had said like we couldn't guarantee that right off the bat councelor ete with regard to speed up Hing Hing process that I believe was something we talked about yes um and it it again I since this has been given as a contribution perhaps we should put it in but it still runs into the limits that we had from the discussion which is there might be a supply issue and so you can't speed up what can't be sped I had a big problem with this when it was discussed [Music] um where was it oh I think it was at actually at a different committee I believe this was discussed um because we also don't want to speed up up hiring processes so much that we invite bias into the process um we having things posted for a certain amount of time helps you get a diverse candidate pool all of these that are just best practices but um I think that that again I I think for me this is more of a learning moment about how I've facilitated this discussion and how it's more useful for us to put it in and and take it out at Council because y the other thing that this person had put in before or I think they had suggested go in before um and Lynn I think you spoke to this one was undertake a review of salary and supervisory responsibilities to ensure there is no gender bias in salaries promotion or job responsibilities review of salary and supervisory responsibility supervisory responsibilities to ensure there is no gender bias in salaries promotions or job responsibilities George I'm so sorry I didn't intentionally uh try to add so much more go ahead George and job responsibil let's finish let's finish this one first so the language is right yeah um I'd like to when we're ready I want to go to the item just above speed up hiring process yeah and I would ask that that be taken out can you speak to why I don't disagree with you I'm I'm struggling with this one too but I it's it's not specific it's totally just you know it how would you measure this how would you measure you've convinced me I agree that it's not following our criteria I do think that we are just going to have it added back in again it's okay let him do let him do it I mean I don't think I think people will not even notice but we do have a responsibility I think to follow our own guidelines and I think you're right needed so get it out I think you are right okay thank you thank you thank you okay um you know some of these others I think also are going to be a challenge but I mean in the end I guess Paul will tell us what he did or didn't do in terms of say anti-racism training in the onboarding process um he'll probably you know I don't know time and money well take this up I'm sure at councilor retreat but the cost and expense of doing a review of salary and supervisor responsibilities are they going to have to hire another consultant anyway that's something we'll have to talk about um so can we take that out or not I yes I think that we did still there where where it says maintain and continue to improve the delivery of Municipal no no I thought you were talking about speed up the hiring process no no no no okay well hang hang on one second because there was a suggestion to add to that one so before we maybe may it more specific then it could St maybe uh wait no Lyn I thought we just said we weren't going to put that in okay we are taking that out okay yeah because it's not specific we'd have to and honestly the first step there would be we actually have to measure the time it takes to hire every position and do a study of that so there's there's steps to take before that um but there was a suggested ad to maintain and continue to improve the delivery of M ipal Services um which was and Implement better ways of communicating what departments manage which services and where and how complaints or requests for help regarding those Services should be made so it's combining the one above with the I like which Services I think I I yeah that that's a repeating of what's above I have isue I have issue with combining them because I think we're just no it should be either yeah I think they should be separate in terms of evaluating I don't think they should be combined I think we're making this into more of a mushy uh action item I think these are two separate things all right I'll take it back out coun Ryan determine a method by which the town communicates to the public okay it's it's specific what departments manage which Services I'm thinking it's already there I guess some people feel that they can't can't find what they're looking for particularly say if they want to make a complaint about a nuisance house or they want to make you know there's there's a trash on on on you know a sign is missing or whatever um is this a priority for the coming year and is this a real crisis or problem in town I think that question I guess you're gonna say we'll talk about this at Retreat I am yes because because I yeah yeah at least not duplicate so let's take it out so it doesn't duplicate I don't think we should duplicate um councelor then Len sorry coun take go ahead um I had language that for me seem to be clearer okay is which is clarify to the public what departments manage which services and where and how request for help regarding those Services should be made clarify to the public what departments manage which Services services and where and how complaints or requests for those help regarding those yes and speaking to this the the I like that it's it's you can find what you're looking for on the website but it's like going to the trift store you don't know what you're going to find um and I I think we could maybe just it might be some slight to design of the website or there might be some portal that has all that information there's something that could be done I don't think it's a heavy lift to make it easier unless uh um would I say burdensome for members of the public to find answers to questions they may have ccor Ryan so if I may we have a committee called Town services and Outreach and we just today had a long presentation by our new communications director it is I would think part of the job of TSO to address exactly this issue um and we would work with the communications director through Paul to address exactly this issue but it's really on us to take the initiative so what this says to Paul is I guess have the communications director come and talk to TSO about a way to address this problem um in the interest of trying to reduce the number of already outof control action items this is another another example where in fact the council could do something instead of turning to Paul and saying why don't you do this and this and this and this and this this is something it's perfectly appropriate for TSO to address and deal with but he I disagree sorry go ahead L go ahead Lyn but he still needs to say to the communications director you need to spend time doing that so it's yeah t you could say to TSO my communications director is too busy she can't do it right so anyway it stays in but again I think there are a number of things here that the council should be doing but we're just throwing it in here and saying okay Paul do this and this and this and this anyway so I I do want to move us on it's time to switch over to our resolution and and talk of the future here um I know we're not through this but uh George I'm sorry but I the item that I asked to be deleted has still not been deleted oh I'm so sorry which is maintain and continue to improve the delivery of mun please get that out why because it doesn't mean anything I mean unless you have something specific in mind like maintain a continue to approve delivery X so if you go back stop everybody stop sorry I actually wasn't done with my comment from before and then we're gonna go in line really quickly George I will I'm gonna come back to you in a second thank you George my my only other comment on your first thing about uh the the communicate first off I actually I don't like the shift to clarify um I prefer the determine a method by which and we can keep this and have this discussion at Council but I think that they mean two different things um clarify to me means explain to people that this already exists and determine a method means find a better way to do this um because I I do when we talked about this last time we talked about the idea of almost like a a tree right like I have an issue with the street light I go here I have an issue with this I go here um that is a new to my knowledge method of of communicating which department do what thing um so I I don't see these as the same I don't see this as a simple clarification of language I see this actually as changing the meaning um and I George to your point I um my concern with taking this out would be actually something that you you mentioned is a really good use for this document which is to communicate to Residents what we're going to get done in the coming year and this is one that residents ask for often is help me figure out how to navigate this better that I have no problem with that we're still talking about the same item which is the first item which re has just asked us to do an edit to which is I don't really care one way or the other but that we just edited it I'm fine with that I understand the Public's concern I share it I think TSO could deal with it but that's fine I'm talking about a different item I know you are but I hadn't I hadn't finished my comment on the first item before you I know to finish that good I'm going to lower my hand and then um I'm going to go to counselor is it on the this first one or are we going to shift down to the maintain jump into the maintain and continue to improve and this will probably be our our pause point for tonight just so folks now I um I find tonight's meeting fascinating um and I think part of it is it's revealing even to us as counselors the tension of what exactly the council does and what the town manager does um and so I think this is a good opportunity to take a step back and wherever we end in terms of what we're looking at with the document think about all the things that are listed on the action items and consider what are the things that the council should initiate first before it gets to become an action item for the town manager if that's the case then there are a lot of things that might actually get removed not because they won't get to the town manager but maybe because they don't need to be in the town manager goals but um I I think in just taking in what we have in this meeting I think it's a good idea that we have all these things being listed even if most of them are going to get taken out by the next council meeting hear you I think my issue there is our timing it then becomes hard for someone to bring something up in a council term if it hadn't already been in the goals because then they have to wait until the next round of goals to get it into the goal so they can move it forward so I think it we run into a chicken and egg situation a lot and I I that there is this just a big tension there that we kind of are constantly Reckoning with so Lynn can you save this and send it to me please George go ahead I'm sorry take that it sorry we're you're you're right you're right no just I spent a fair amount of time today going through this document and I appreciate the fact that other counselors have sent written comments but we spend most of our time trying to decipher and in it and understand their comments um and have it little time for us to actually go over what I and I assume Lynn and I assume frea have also prepared there's still a number of items that I would like us to look at I guess what you say to me is well this is going to go to a retreat and you can bring them up there but I guess I'm unhappy that this committee you know is not really being able to do its work because we're spending so much time uh trying to decipher and interpret uh comments written to us in the last day or two um meanwhile the committee members who spent a fair amount of time going through this draft in the thought that we could try and improve it and get it ready for Council review wherever that takes place I we're going to have to stop and I a I don't want to stop even though it's late and I I have other things to do do um but I guess we're going to leave this thing half done and it's going to go half done to the council and they're going to ask about anyway so uh I'm not happy I'm sorry George what would you suggest as a resolution what resolution would you I think we have to get through this damn document tonight um and I know people don't want to do it and that's fine I'm only one vote but we need to go through the whole thing we're almost done but we need to go through it and and and at least respect the work of the members of the committee who actually went through the thing and and made comments and changes and suggestions in the naive assumption that they'd get to talk about them tonight but instead we're going to rush off and do a a uh a proclamation and and so forth so that's my problem so thank you for for sharing are there areas that we in the prior in climate action Community Health housing and an admin that you did not get to discuss that you would like to discuss yes okay so what I'm gonna say really quickly is um we do have a um a proclamation to get through um that is timely because the council we need to get this to the council for the first meeting of the council to pass um we can continue to work through these goals I wanted to spend some time figuring out what our path forward is because it feels like we're spending a lot of time on the goals which we should but we also have a number of other things to do um so I am open to going back to this and finishing it out you're right we're almost we only have two other areas to go through um but I am asking folks to I guess be judicious with your thoughts on the proclamation later if we do that um and and and please I'm hoping that folks are not holding back their own comments as we go through this I'm adding in other comments as we go just because I have them in front of me but I hope that people are also talking through their own thoughts um let's Len if you could pull up the document again let's try to finish it out and George I hear you I think the end of the year got got busy we tried to do an extra meeting it didn't work out um first one only one voice so if the committee wants to move on they should move on I'm just expressing my unhappiness with the fact that I spent a lot of time on this and not that my thoughts are any better than anybody else's but I would like to at least get through it um and I don't know maybe nobody else has any other thoughts and so we can end here um and at this point so yeah no I I appreciate that everyone put a lot of work into this and I'd like to hear them um so let's let's move through and just try to be judicious in our in our comments um okay uh sorry George you were talking we were up at you wanted to take out maintain and continue to improve the argument simply was that this is not something that can be uh by any stretch of the imagination evaluated or um there not specific it lacks any specificity so if somebody had some specificity that would be great otherwise I would suggest it should come out coun oh okay oh yep go ahead oh no um oh no yes no yeah um Lyn the only reason I support leaving it in is because if you look back at the Town manager um self- evaluation this last year he speaks to many different systems that were worked on this year that were not highlighted but would fall in this category and I say good for him that's great and I'm that's wonderful but I don't see why it has to be in the goals well continue to do strike through but leave it there okay I mean if there's something specific that somebody wants to say he should work on great but if not I mean he does this and our staff do this all the time they just you know I think we were really well served but yeah anyway that was the only thought with that okay I had a bunch of things under infrastructure management maintenance and land because this is really important category and we haven't even gotten to it yet yeah let's let's get there now so we're in yeah our lines got L I think our lines got broken here infrastructure they did and that's why I wrote this little note because I don't want to mess with format that's fine I will I'll I'll mess with format but if you um okay so yeah so starting with assess current condition um C s time um I raised my hand and dropped it because I I got confused on um in notes that i' had written so um want to speak about what we had which was the is it continue maintain and continue to improve yep um so the comment that i' written down is would the town manager fail quote unquote if he only maintains the delivery what is the relationship between the two parts of that phrase do we so you can improve or you can maintain what would be a passing grade I think that was a similar question that councilor Ryan was Raising is you know this is there isn't a specific aspect of this there isn't a checkbox other than maintain and also maintain every single part um you know is improve every single part to your point so I think that that is both of you have highlighted the the the ways that this is in congruous in doesn't line up with our um our own criteria for what an action item should be um and I don't know counc I don't know that I could specify within this right now um yeah okay um the so it's currently struck just to just to follow up on that so there was a suggested ad here um regarding the wastewater treatment plant yes could we start with that yep the suggested ad was including a plan to fund improvements and repairs um this is something that kind of could go with everything I don't know if we want to spe like specifically call it out here but because because it's presenting the results it could make sense to to include that so if you actually yeah sorry Lynn go ahead no okay go ahead George the what has to happen here is that they have to get a consultant who will um assess and present a plan for how to address the problems of the wastewater treatment plant apparently they have the money I believe for the consultant but it's going to it won't happen until the middle of this coming year and then it'll take the consultant probably many months maybe more to actually uh propose a plan for how to deal with this so um I'm not sure we're really assessing the I mean it's in the works but I think it's here because in the coming year we would like to know um that this is underway even if we may not yet have a full plan and then what will have to happen is they we'll have to do a rate study um on the water system and the rate the rate study should happen after they actually uh get a plan for the the the treatment for the uh treatment plan so um I don't know how to word that I think all I'm asking or I was was asking was that in the coming year we'd be presented with a plan for how we're going to deal with this um so so is your issue with the feasibility I'm what I'm understanding that you're saying is that your issues the feasibility of what's currently written here and your solution is to take is what's your solution I guess you now have some language added including a plan to fund improvements and repairs and what I'm saying is that that is not possible that might be a next year goal as I understand it in the coming year but what is possible as I understand Glenn go ahead go ahead Lyn again none of these goals are bound neatly by a year so if part of assessment is to do the plan you say well fine we got this far this year that's one piece the other thing and present the results to the Town Council could put be put in every one of these sub goals so I don't think ever I'm unclear on why you're saying that none of these goals are bound by a year when we set annual goals and so I think that what we need to say is in this goal need to specify what is the goal for the year or when go one of the things that we'll talk about in the future is the evaluation process then go needs to completely revamp that if we're not evaluating him on annual goals but if we're setting annual goals we need to specify what should be completed in that annual time frame so I think that it's reasonable if what council Ryan is saying is that that second part the the cost part is not um feasible a year we shouldn't have it in here and that's a question I think George you raised really good points and I think ultimately we can ask the town manager yay or nay is this feasible um even though I believe you but I I don't think that it's a good idea to get into the practice of having start this or continue this um if we want it done in a year we should have it written here as an expected so when future goal addresses that I think I would like something to the effect of um how to put it um present a plan that will address the current condition uh or the conditions of the wastewater treatment plant with the future goal of developing a plan to fund improvements a future plan of how to fund improvements and repairs or how how to fund it the initial way that I read this was uh and and present the rep the results to the Town Council of that's understood we're saying that's all understood we just want to be clear on what we're asking to do the Assumption always is that he will report back to us because if he doesn't he's in trouble right so uh it's really getting clear on what we're asking him to do and and that's an open question but my understanding is that what we could possibly get in the coming year is as the result of a uh a a Consultants report a a plan for how to address um the issues or problems however you want to put it at the wastewater treatment plan and then Lynn's suggestion and then with a future goal of developing a plan of how to fund this work is I don't have objection to that but what we're asking for the coming year is a plan um for how to deal with the wastewater treatment plant and if Paul comes back to us and says look that's just not you're not going to get it until 26 or 27 or whatever fine at least we know but uh so not assess it but present a plan that will address um the the condition of a wastewater treatment plan and then then and not and then and and with the future goal of developing um I hate plan repeated but anyway it's not assess the current condition it's it's actually we want a plan for how you're going to deal with that facility because well initially it was that the council wanted to know what the the council wanted to know the current condition that it's not it's not good the current condition is bad and it's going to need a lot of work and it's going to cost a lot of money and right now we don't need to know that it's bad we know it's bad um what we need to know and what Paul's working on is a plan to how to address it and then what would come after that is a plan for how to pay for it I agree I just wanted to make sure that we're changing the meaning so I just want to make sure we're all understanding that we're changing the meaning I I personally agree with your what you're saying so I'm striking that first sentence or first Clause is what I'm suggesting suggesting that I see if everybody agrees but I'd say just say the goal for the coming year is to present us a plan that will address the uh the condition or the situation at the wastewater treatment plan that's what I'm hoping to get this year I don't think that that really makes a big difference George if it if if if he has to assess it anyway why not just put it in there okay and I I'm going to go back to George something you keep saying and that is this is a public document they don't even know we're in the process of assessing it so as far leave it in fine assess the current condition which is terrible and percent of plan that will address this and with a future goal developing a funding plan for for um for improvements and repairs thank you that's that I think is something that we could okay I think it's actually very high priority in my humble that would be a one in my VI that's me um yeah just go ahead no I was just going to move on to the next one foran appoint a building committee to make progress on the fire and DPW buildings again this maybe more appropriate at Council I think we have to take a strong forceful voice for in the coming year uh getting tpw off the ground yeah so this was one where I know some folks had had pitched consolidating them or one person pitched consolidating them I strongly disagree I think having each thing broken out into its own goal is important um it's the same amount of work if we consolidate them it doesn't change the amount of work fair enough so I I do think that present schematic designs is down there um and so I think that gets to what you're saying also sign the contract and breakr um you know all of those I think are are specifics that we are expecting that relate back to those that's my take you know also to Echo something Lynn just said this is a public facing document also is read by staff right and it means something when we actually so I think that's important um um there was a suggested edit to this top one uh we had maintain a list of prioritized future Road and sidewalk repairs you went too far sorry it it was on top there we go got you okay um and the suggested it was continue to address the backlog of Road and sidewalk repairs with a multi-year plan while maintaining a list again I that's fine but it's not measurable um it's it's not specific so how is it not measurable explain that it's not yeah go ahead I'm sorry it's measurable in the sense of one sidewalk gets fixed it's checked right um so it's it's fine to put it in there I just want folks to be aware of it's It's vague enough that anything counts right so it's it's important to recognize that when we get George when we get to the process of evaluation that some people may say he didn't do enough well if he just did one sidewalk yeah he didn't do enough and that's you know so that's measurable I mean if more than one sidewalk like that's what then we should specifi do more than one sidewalk like I think that's what I'm saying is how do we well first of all it requires money it requires money so if he's going to do this as he has done for the last two years he's going to have to have money to do it and that's going to be a challenge with the capital budget Etc but um that what it really is saying is continue to uh request funds to address Road and sidewalk repairs and and by the way it'd be nice if you had a list though how useful it's going to be I think is is is a very good question but the point of this is that we want you to continue to do what you've been doing and that means continue to ask for substantial money to do it okay I would Hill all di on I would break these out into two things they are asking for two different things I would break this out into two goals I think continue to address Road and sidewalk repairs is one thing um maintain a list of prioritized uh Etc is a second thing I don't think they what I had originally yes so but I was following your lead there I this was not my lead this was an ad that I got from someone else that's okay I I would have then two items and that's a suggestion and I'm open to having it knocked down I unlike the suggestions that are coming to us from I should have just written these and they all would have gone in the document you could have you could I asked for track changes I thought we were a committee and that's where the five of us talk and we we hash it back and forth often I see I see that my ideas are terrible so Lynn could you please add a new row your ideas are not terrible could you please add a new row under continue to address and move and then so it's two separate items yeah y um sorry nope just okay no I know I'm going to just take some of it out to just parent replacement and and then just edit it out period right to the that's the top one right continue to address Road inside repairs yes and replacement okay fine and then take the first bre and send and maintain a listed prioritized and and in all honesty what they do is they take the uh the tool they now use to evaluate the condition of our roads and that what generates the list it's not like to go out there and do a a six- week study um and not every goal needs to be hard but we need that well yeah and okay can't wait to keep talking about this with you George um I'm sorry it's just hard I know I know okay so we got do B him I'm sorry I have a question it's okay next up yeah schematic designs that's fine that's great um focus on DPW I love it and um propose an entry fee for outside municipalities uh when connecting to the town of amers water and or sewer systems there was a suggestion here from another counselor to change municipalities to entities well I I actually uh got did some research and we already do that so we already charge anybody who hooks up to our water sewer system developers whatever that's that's standard unless they're asking for some special fee um that's standard and we also do it with municipalities and the only one that's on the horizon is Hadley and there's and often it's a it's a complicated back and forth um so it's not clear that this is needed we do not I'm sorry we do not Char all we do is they they pay for the cost of connecting right okay but they do not pay anything toward the actual structure they're connecting to except in monthly rates or daily or you know per cubic foot rates so an entry fee is in a sense a particularly a term of art or a special term that would be an additional fee right beyond what they already pay to hook up to our system right okay so we're not sitting there trying to maintain a facility that they're hooking into but they've never contributed to okay all right so it's a special or new fee it is okay thank you um there were questions we will continue to go one on one by one but I think we've kind of addressed this a little bit with the public facing document there were questions on whether or not some of these things were necessary um uh in terms of sign the contract sign the contract and update The Five-Year Plan in light of I think that this is even if they're just because they're easy doesn't mean it's not helpful to have them in here um and not that they're easy just because they're kind of guaranteed s supposedly doesn't mean it's not helpful to have them in here in my opinion give given the public facing nature of this document um and given what we're saying we're going to accomplish this year through this document that's that's my take George what's next on your list uh well we're just going through them item by item so Lynn has I guess we still have to decide entities versus municipalities I think I like a slash I think a slash is good fine okay um this next one doesn't make any sense so I mean English doesn't make any sense so is new I thought that that was no it was in there last time it didn't make sense I wasn't sure no no no it's okay I just I I was having a a brain moment a plan actually maybe now it does yeah it's the public private development part that makes no sense I don't know what this is saying I I think we just say disposal of town own plan to develop options for the disposal of or disposition of town-owned unused properties yes that's fine okay that I think that's I disagree with Anna and I don't know what the rest of you think but I think these kinds of things that are going to happen no matter what um my idea of the outward facing actually is more about the objectives and the broad categories it's not the particular item so much I think these should come out he's gonna sign the contract it's ridiculous well and I don't know about the Jones but I don't think that's you know it's not I just don't think they belong here and we're going to get into a debate about the Jones I'm almost certain I think that yeah we are um but I want to just take it out really I mean if if that's what the committee wants to do the the committee can do that um people asked the question of is this necessary there wasn't a proposal to strike it for me this indicates a priority that the council wants the town manager to maintain at the Forefront uh Lyn communication to the outside world in addition to that just think of this last year here this Elementary School building contract just tied us up for 2 and A2 months and cost us a bundle of money resources cost so how's that an argument for keeping this in here I would move to strike the last three items and that's probably gonna die in the vine but that's what I would do I would strike the last are you making that motion I'm sorry are you making that uh yeah I'll make it I know I'm not going to get a second but I think that in the interest of trying to reduce the enormous number of objectives I don't see the point of putting in a goal that is going to happen whether it's in here or not and I can't believe that people read this document to see whether we support the elementary school building project or whether we support the Jones Library project since we voted on both numerous times and the capital 5-year Capital Improvement program I believe and I made may be wrong and I can be corrected is always revised every year in light of our financial realities so these are three things that either happen all the time um or are going to happen no matter what and we're trying to get things out of this document so I move that we strike the last three items is there a second second I I'm interested in hearing the argument against it I think you just heard it but George anything else to say no I heard the argument for it what's the argument against the argument against it is public facing document and it takes time and resources I do think I agree with what Lynn said my argument for keeping it is we are we use this document as a public facing document yes and as a focus of the town I'm kind of just repeating what Lyn said this document tells the town manager where we want him to focus his time and his staff's time and I believe that making sure that those contracts are signed and through which feels like a sure thing but honestly who knows and breaking ground uh especially with Elementary School feels like a sure thing but who knows but um for me it's important to keep those in here so that we can mark the progress that we're making and show where we want the priorities of the Town manager's time to go in the coming year so for me that's why these staying in here is helpful once again I do not think that the number of item the number of items to me feels arbitrary it's the weight of of the items that matters and so for me I'm not going to cut things for the sake of dropping the number of action items down if they're things that are important to us as a council and that the we believe the town manager should do and focus his time on so with the last item the fiveyear capital Improvement program that I would support striking but that would be a second motion because your motion was to delete all three well clearly the motion would fail to to so I would then well we we need to vote because the motion's on the table okay fine let's vote it was made and seconded so I'm going to go ahead and call the vote um councelor Ryan hi Lyn nay I am a no counselor nay okay the motion fails three to one with one absent so I'd make a motion to strike the last item I will second that moot the last can you be specific just for the sake update the five-year Capital Improvement program blah blah blah just strike blah blah blah I will second that motion um to strike the fiveyear capital all right AR is I've already said that this is done every year and if I'm mistaken in this or if it's important that somehow this be really emphasized because somehow they're not gonna I mean actually this is done uh by jcpc so we should be sending this to JC PC anyway I think we come out um jcpc does not do the updating of this they just get it from the staff so Paul provides the update through his staff through his financial people and so the message is basically to Paul to have your financial people update this uh in light of the 2024 revisions and I happy to be corrected if in fact this is something that could fall through the cracks the only question is if the expectation was that this be done sooner than it normally would be uh Lynn our financial man our financial director just spent an enormous amount of time developing a recent up date at the last finance committee meeting they have still not committed to any model and they're not sure they're going to so it's going to remain an open issue again a f a public facing document that Five-Year Plan is the best way that we have a of communicating to the public the depth and cost of our um Capital Pro major Capital project in the coming I'm sorry so um L I'm wondering then is from what you've said is the hold up from the side of the town or from the council well at this point it's the council but it it later on it could be the town it goes back and forth and one other is thing is we could adopt a plan today and then if Amber College gave us a $5 million or we got a bunch of money from a state program we changed the plan but Lynn I don't think Paul would look to the oh well your point is it's an outward facing document and somehow um some people might read this and go oh these guys are really doing a great job so okay we can leave it in I guess I mean the motion we made it we have a motion we have to vote I can withdraw the motion if my if my second is willing to do so the argument that Lynn is making is that that somehow the public will read this and and be heartened you know I like to believe that too generally uh I agree with the withdrawal of the motion okay well is fra okay with that that's up to him I was the seconder oh you were seconded I apologize okay I was trying to be so supportive all right all right um so to withdraw a motion just requires the second to to withdraw it thinking that uh it would still be a vote because it's now the council's or not the council but the Committees okay thank you yeah yeah I got my Roberts rules pocket guide somewhere um okay so Anna can I just mention something you because you appropriately mve these around I think to Al alphabetize them there was a lot of things that didn't fit in the right place some of these should now be turned to Black again and I'll let you decide on that oh yeah yeah yeah that's fine okay got it would would you be willing to put some of them together uh if they go together or do you think that that I mean no no because because why though like I okay all right all right all right that's your it's your document and you've doing a great job both of you doing a great job putting this all of our doc I just don't no it's not my talking at the end I'm gonna vote against it but no oh George um George it this is very much your document because I wanted multiple uh outcomes and died on not try to get yourself out of this one okay um responsible for that are we on to we're at the last section as my understanding this the last section there three items that's correct and this is a total whatever but let's see what it's excellent great no questions okay uh there are I'm just looking oh shoot sorry um yeah okay yes so some comments here that were suggested additions George do you want to go first and then I'll go or do you want no I want you to go because here I this is the one section where I just thought what the but anyway that's okay all right so the first comment was to add two new action items in the first was explore the possibility of pilot legislation regarding nonprofits at the state level it is not specific but I don't know how to make it more specific it it it's nonprofits because it's both hospitals and um no it's not specific what I said I understand that it's not no you're saying you wouldn't know how to evaluate I don't know how to make this more specific of an ask other than explore council did you have a thought on this um yes it's more about Clarity I the town manager can't explore the possibility of legislation that would be Council he could all right go ahead Lynn he the town manager along with the president vice president of the council meets with our legislators once a month and that's when we do have these kinds of discussions in addition to that Paul and I have actually talked about not specifically this one but the next one where we would try to come up H create a coalition of 29 uh municipalities or the municipalities in which the 29 public HED institutions uh reside and try to get the state to amend the formula for state owned land so he would be very involved I don't doubt that he would be involved I do think he would be but the language um puts the ball squarely in his court when in this case it requires some kind of collaboration which you said with yourself and so if there's something so maybe work with the council would you like that fora work with the council to explore the possibil yes that that it it might be um a bit um pedantic but no the manager isn't dealing with legislation with the council to explore the possibility of P legislation regarding nonprofits at the go ahead every one of these is working with the council at some level it's really working with our legislators yeah so maybe there isn't a role for I mean what what role Paul is playing he's playing and there's I guess is there what in this item would what's this telling him to do that he isn't already doing this item you mentioned the second one is specific and concrete and that might make sense to be in here um what is this telling him to do that he's not already doing he's it's continuing to do what he's been doing right so it's it's like yeah I so for example Shan Mangano has done did some research on this but then it got dropped when he left Anna also did a lot of research on this councelor yes you did councelor go ahead yeah George might not want to hear this but it is a public facing document and it might be the case that they are members of the community who aren't aware of the work that the town manager is doing with regard to working on pilots and so putting it in there might just spread word okay so the second one here because it's relating to this I'm not necessarily totally pushing us past it but just to have the second one on here was uh explore the possibility of amendments to the state pilot legislation to reflect the use of land I didn't write that very well I got let's let's put it up here and just look at it yeah right good would this be a home Ru no it won't be it couldn't be no okay it it's U they're stayed on land and enormous numbers of municipalities no I know I wasn't sure if there there was a way to have just us be special but okay um apologies I keep turning my camera off I I didn't eat dinner beforehand so I'm trying to scarf down okay so before I get cranky um it hasn't that a long time ago I know I know um regarding pilot legislation to reflect the use of land L is what you said so work with the possibility of revising State legislation okay how state land is used to reflect how state land is used and the reason I say this is because you know some some of the state land is Forest okay it's used for hiking some of the state land has huge bill Holdings on it and people come to it 9 months a year those are very different things work with our legisl revising State legislation State pilot regard Pilots involving state land and and maybe just leave it at that because that that's I mean in regarding P Pilots involving state land just say that yeah that's fine is that okay involving state land yes we will have to spell out pilot um at least the first time fine okay um and some might say What's the difference between the first one and the second one um I don't know I do and you can explain it you'll address it okay fine yes fine um thank you so much we're still we're still not quite there but we're almost there you guys are great to do this this I apologize you can hate me forever but um I don't know if that's actually possible even if we well at least until the end of whatever well Millennium whatever Millennium okay so there are a couple other proposed additions here that were removed and I think that um removed for good reason but y yep let's talk about it so first was provide appropriate support for Council committees we removed it because that means nothing um I'm fine not adding it back in because I'm feeling as my dad says feeling chippy uh respond to respond to Communications from the council in a timely manner um that means nothing as well I think but but but I met with this counselor to ask why do you keep proposing things that aren't specific um and they said that there have been instances where counselors have stopped getting responses from Paul on issues and so I do think that there is what what I talked to this counselor about was um the third thing that they wanted back in was meet with each coun counselor individually at least twice per year so the proposal that I pitched and that they said sounded good was um provide the opportunity to meet with each counselor a minimum of twice per year um we didn't really get into the email issue or Communications issue um um I think that sometimes what happens is Paul doesn't have the answer on an issue and a counselor wants an answer faster than he's able to get it understandably he waits to respond back but I think that if we put in the provision of at least twice per year if they want it I don't want to mandate it either um I don't have a better way to phrase the respond to Communications in a timely manner fine just leave it I mean if you're putting it in let's leave it and else that would be a separate one Len sorry oh you want both of them in there no I didn't want that I didn't think I don't want either one but that's okay let's leave the let's leave the the timely manner out because it doesn't fit we're we're holding fast to our qualifiers here and it doesn't fit our qualifiers right exactly measure right okay someone else suggested adding an action item to meet regularly with Joe and Mindy in better aligned state and town priorities so I'm not clear that I don't think is I don't think that's helpful and especially because we just put in work with our legislators yes we have specifics that we could actually measure right um okay the question where are we wait why are there so many lines did I did I submit something about the um oh no it was in a different conversation forget that I believe we're doing the last category which is Town Council community and strategic relation and I don't see that and the main items have disappeared we now have a bunch of new items we're looking at which is fine apparently we've got to do that but what happened to the ones that's what I'm trying to figure out too Lyon there oh there they are there are three of them and we need there they are okay yeah found them found them found them okay sorry so so the thank you comment yeah George so just I was just adding in the additional one so um there was not a comment on the first one other than that it was kind of redundant with the one about Economic Development and housing can we scroll up to it and look at it yeah it it does seem redundant it does seem like a lot of hot air but maybe it does uh because we have specific requests or items up above related to housing and economic development as you just said what does this add that's not already in the document well it so the issues that are at here is the long-term Financial viability of the town and financial and social impact of higher education what a c excuse me we're all getting [Laughter] tired right I here's what I'm going to suggest I'm G do this I'm G to accept it and then I'm going to strike a thing through it okay I that makes sense this there'll be a battle about this and that's fine this be a really interesting discussion yeah right because it yeah I got the the shift the shift that could be argued is meet regularly as per the Strategic partnership agreement but it's already above that's only UMass yeah M right so all right okay um the next one yeah yeah continue so this was uh the word continue to was recommended to be struck and the question was how um how is this measured I this I don't know where this comes from um we it's not this is not it's been there for years could we please put a strike it through um or at least suggest striking it yeah unless I think unless we come up with something specific and concrete what we're asking yeah what are we asking him to do um like it's not a bad idea it's just if we don't know what we're asking him to do we shouldn't be asking him to do it councel I know that CSS JC had spoken about stuff related to translation so um that's they are things that could be done and whoever recommended this can speak to those specific things and have them come as an action item okay so we can keep it in here you can have it stricken and then they could come and defend it I I would like to strike it out okay I don't that's you know but yeah and if somebody objects they can then say wait a minute I want this in and then we'd say okay what specifically do you have in mind yeah but since they haven't given us anything I think we should strike it okay and then the next one I'm sorry and I think I think we're almost done but the next one I yeah somebody tell me what this means it means get it get a [Music] um it means get agreements with Hampshire and and um ammer college so basically U sign or enter into a strategic partnership agreement with Hampshire and AMR College I think based on how long it took us to get the one with UMass I don't know that it's actually fair to say sign enter into or you know I mean basically we're saying I guess we're saying it's a priority that he have one of these with all three major institutions since he has one yeah go ahead the discussion here was that this is another one that's not entirely under his control so we wrote pursue because he can't make it happen without their agreement right but I think we could express some impatience we could put I mean maybe some people aren impatient I'm impatient no it's it's not that it's that if Paul can if Paul does everything he does but th one of those institutions or both of those institutions isn't interested there's no leverage with either of them right they're private institutions they're not it's not there's nothing that we can do so it we also don't want to set him up to expect something that he can't do on his own so I I I think that was why it said pursue not enter into just for I think that's right I neone so that the uh those institutions understand that Paul is under pressure to do it George does that make sense that he that saying enter into sets up an expectation that he alone couldn't meet well I have a different view of and obviously our perception of this is very limited because we're not engaged in these ation in a direct way whatsoever but one does learn things as we know second third fourth and fifth hand um anyway let's leave it the way it is I I would prefer enter into but this is fine we'll leave it as okay um so that and then those are the three and any last comments that people would like to make here's what I'm going to do while you think about your comments I am going to proposed to Lynn is going to send me this thank you and I will reformat it um I will keep everything as track changes other than the places that things were just moved and weren't changed so I'll I'll figure that out um I'm going to send a request from go that the council convene to discuss the goals um my recommendation is that we go item by item and it's going to be painful it's going to be brutal George might me but I think that that's what we need to do we need to either Vote or up or down each item where we get into trouble as a counil is when we mush things all together and look at it and Wordsmith it and any one person suggesting a word change gets it in the document we go down a rabbit hole so we need to be able to send out this document as edited um and people need to say come people need to come to a retreat with motions to change or motions to strike or motions to add and the council needs to vote on those on every single dang one but we're gonna get if we start word smithing we're just gonna not word smithing send me your grammar edits please but if we start getting into this spiral of consensus seeking with 13 people and all of these items it's gonna get really bad George tell me why I'm wrong no no no um you are recommending a retreat I am recommending a retreat just for this nothing else this in the first week of or the first few first 10 days or something January based on how these goals are supposed to apply for 2025 it should be in other words before we have our next scheduled council meeting you are requesting a retreat focused on this and when we do have this Retreat you're suggesting that we proceed item by item and every every change would require a motion and a second and a vote yep even though it sounds more painful upfront I think it's G to be less painful well that's the approach I took when you saw what I tried to do at the last meeting and we quickly I think rightly in that case but we quickly segue to a more consensus approach um I mean the other the other option we only got through climate action so the other option is you start you throw something out and if you if there seems to be consensus you don't need a vote but if there isn't then you go for a vote if it stands unless someone wants to change it right but L I don't want to throw anything out because throwing things out is when people just then see the opportunity Unity to maybe change it whereas if they have a thought they need to be able to present it I'm not trying to say let's discuss everything but I think I I I think that's where we get spiraling is when we kind of just say let's talk about this one it's more of Point by Point does anyone have a motion to make what's your specific language up or down Point by Point like right I that's good people have had so many opportunities to send us stuff we've received it we've discussed it I don't think you're going to be able to avoid um a kind of Deep dive at least in some circumstances that raises questions for counselors at a fundamental level about what their priorities are and what they care about and what they don't and that needs discussion um and it's I understand the desire to get through this thing and I think your approach is probably the best way to start but there going to be moments where we're just going to have to H out and and people going have to you know think hard about what they prioritize and what they don't um we also a PHA suggestion I don't know if you want to follow up on it but she was proposing that people try to do some kind of numbering system and given the large number of goals that we have now put in this document I'm beginning to think that might have some Merit to at least in a provisional way um go through and number them on the other hand though that would imply that at least some of these might come out in other words if you don't you know some of them I'm sure will come out do you think prioritization is something you would encourage or not it is and I think that this system for how we prioritize them is it's always going to be tricky that's why I wanted to break out every single goal into one thing because when you start condensing they get weightier um some of these goals are bigger than others I do think we're going to need to do some sort of prioritization I still think that is very fraught with the goals like we have them because they are such different weights um I don't think it should be a within this category what's top what's bottom because some of the categories have fewer than others like who's to say we should be given I'm I'm saying arbitrarily like 10 whatever what are your top 10 across every all 47 million of these action items and that's how we should prioritize so top 10 across the board in other words looking at all the gold five all the six gold areas or how many what are your top 10 R You're Not Top 10 like whatever number pick number I do think because but but I think that needs to happen after we go through each item because we need to know what the full list is what that prioritization system is going to help us do is we are going to end up with a list that is not doable in a year 100% we will guarant like guaranteed that our part then that's a failure so no no no but then that's where the priority ation needs to come through and say all right this item was no one's priority it's not to say it doesn't matter but it's not going to be in our goals document and we need to move to strike it okay so it could lead to being something that's the flow that I see right like we we establish all the action items then we prioritize by action item not by goal area but by action item uh and then we strike based on based on that until we get to an it's not a number it's it's we get to a set that is feasible and that's my question let me just my question is specifically when you make your recommendations to uh the council um are you going to include this idea of prioritization are you going to hold off on that until we actually have this meeting and we have this H process of going through the draft and then you will present that as a as something you want people to do or do you want to say in advance I'm not sure I'm sure how you do this but in advance you'd say and as you're going you know in for the meeting prioritize no I'm not going to have people do it in advance of the meeting because but I do think that they'd happen at the same Retreat and I might get push back on that right mightet okay fine to process it but I would pitch that they happen at the same time um but not in advance so no not in advance because things are going to change and so why have people do all that work if let's hope we have a retreat that's going to be the first question um you know everybody's yeah we'll see um okay we need to get this done first that's Priority One but I just wanted to preview Coming Attractions just so people remember what's on our plates um we still need to do the ahra successor body charge and we still need to deal with the legislative process guide one way or another um and it's what it is and um we will have your Grimace I saw it I'm reaching back to get a piece of paper we have several old several upcoming proclamations resolutions Etc and then the other thing that we need to what I'd really love to do if I'm on go again uh and not saying I'm chairing it again but what I'd love go I'm not if someone else writes these dang reports I will happily share again but um we need to talk about the town manager evaluation part it's chicken and egg but once we have goals in a better place our evaluation system is going to be much easier that is something go will need to take up in the spring um I will revisit my transition memo as well Lynn go ahead the other thing is we will have several things coming to us from other committees yes and we will have a finance Committee Member appointment yes so think now on if there's anything that is particularly striking your fancy that you would like to take point on Lynn we have we have a finance committee appointment immediately and then we have another one in June June right yeah great great great news and we can't stack them um okay so is there anything that I'm forgetting I just I I'm saying that because I think we've been really focused on these goals for a while and I just don't want us to lose sight also because I will be seeking assistance from the committee in uh uh leading the finance Committee Member search if if folks are feeling like they might be interested in in being the point person for that I'll be glad to help with that having having done the the process for the U um Charter commission yep George did one you did the other I think either one of you would be would be great yeah Geor glad to do it yeah so just for my sake in my notes ah charge yep status of the legislation process guide yep down manager evaluation process y fincom appointments and then we have some committee referrals right yes and various proclamations that's at the moment what we're looking at okay yeah I'm gonna revisit to make sure I'm not forgetting anything um but I that's the list I came up with the other day with Athena good yeah thank you okay um but I'm gonna be sharing that list at some point don't okay let's not go there totally fine um and and a lot of that it depends on if committees stay the same or if they they change up to not that that list doesn't change but just for you all uh I Su we give all these items to d'angeles yes I make that motion all you know and see oh coun Danel has nothing to say okay well then it's all right all right all right here we go councelor I'm just begging for grace in this moment I I got to tell you what I'm silently saying are prayers kindness I'm sorry oh I I my hand now I actually would like to be a co-sponsor on this great do you have edits no you gonna do the work no I have no edits okay [Music] um ly did you have something else no I'm sure okay no you're fine yes already go ahead those would like to sponsor this a b CDE e f g and uh start by saying that okay I I think we could are we allowed to begin yes okay um perhaps we could shut in Reverend yeah we can it was I just thought it was nice to spell it out the first time I think it's nicer to spell it out actually okay then let's we could go with that I think that' be nice yeah 2025 I don't think there is supposed to be a common on the second line day 2025 yeah okay all right uh issues with the sponsors list okay issues with the first whereas um 50s and 60s by having the apostrophe it is specific to 1950 so it's this there isn't supposed to be an apostrophe okay second warehous I think we could be consistent with having movement either capital or small it was a mixture of both in this article and so we could decide whether we would go with civil rights movement all capitalized or um movement small yeah I'm going to capitalize it um okay second we're at anything here third whereas long I was waiting fourth whereas what do we think of let's see are still being fought for today on local state and federal levels it sounds it sounds fine but I was thinking if we just said on local level that is not as clear so um so on at uh I went deep into the archives for this one so if you try to come for me on it I will cry um go ahead with college capitalize the dimensions it was not capitalized in the records but I will capitalize it here I'm just it would be I think naturally it should be yeah all right if that's the title of the talk otherwise the title of the talk is dimensions of a complete life it was was maybe it was but no it was the it was the diens should be capitalized yeah okay Comm R 1961 wait a minute really no that doesn't look right delivered at Smith College on April 16 1961 before a visit to ammer college I would not have put a comma there that that's not right okay I'm I'm not sure oops Yeah I'm not sure I'd put a comma after 16th I always thought you did that at on dates I always thought there was a but it's April 16 comma not 16th comma all right so take away the 16 six takeaway that either deled at Smith College on April 16 1961 before a visit to emmer college the following day I kept the th because it felt more realistic for when we read this out loud okay but but it does not matter that's fine fine I know it's long it's just long it's all right it's a beautiful speech oh L I'm sorry your hand is still oh I'm sorry no okay okay whereas despite legislation also fun fact this was like a speaking tour he gave this this speech at multiple colleges at the time all right sorry so if you want oops you're good go ahead if you wanted to be consistent you should say November 2nd no I took oh no I did yeah yeah yep I do that and remove the comma from April 4th yeah yeah good all I'm saying is grammar.com com says put it in there so yeah hell with him okay actually there there should not be a comma there where after 1968 y it's a lovely line services the Soul's highest purpose yeah we're on okay which by the way uh oh no mind we already skipped the crazy part go ahead an may ask this this of course has been done for many years now you've done a major kind of rewrite here good for you well I figured if I was gonna sponsor it it as well like well and I take it the Dei folks are who who's the community sponsor was Dei wasn't it yep Philip took a look at it and liked great great yeah yeah yeah he approved it he approved it no good no good it's good uh any issues with the now there fors um 208 the yes yes yes yes yes yes okay yeah it's good good this this group is still going strong at almost the three- hour mark this is true service this is this is the highest calling right here after January you don't need a comma where am I there is no comment where here at the very end down below this day of January day of January 2025 it's the the final line very me oh my God sorry I was staring up here actually the way we do it is says it's voted and then you leave blank there's a blank yeah yeah wait no where's the blank where voted this blank day of January right something Athena was sorted out councelor and hopefully she has gone home I hope she has I texted her to make sure she left councel yeah um I do remember that we read this Proclamation at an event are we having something this year no I asked and he said no so that's why it's not in here but thank you for asking it because um remember the Human Rights Commission is and Dei are trying to consolidate into more like one big event so they're not doing something which seems strange to me but I thought we would do something with this at the school breakfast but okay we look at the last I'm sorry yep NOP last one we look at the last sentence yes this is very good I like it very much um but I just have a question about let the town of Amis reflect upon its commitment to continue the challenge this was a this was a holdover I didn't really know what to do with it I liked it but I didn't know how to I don't know what it means to continue a challenge to continue to meet the challenge um or is it reflect upon its commitment to meet his challenge that all people well yeah I it's just the boing is a little awkward how about reflect upon its commitment that all people will live his dreams if that's what Anna wants to say that would be more also spor so it's fine so let the town of mar reflect upon his commitment that all people will live his dreams are a are able to might be nicer than will all people are able to live his dream you want to make it singular because I think it's it's a singular dream I think um yeah all right who says we don't do poetry and that was beautiful everyone uh is there a motion to find this clear consistent I declare this clear consistent and actionable second uh I move yes yes yes I figured as much taking over I second I had to yell at y'all about hands today I already seconded it like two minutes ago oh you did before she seconded okay yes exactly uh I I am writing it down so that I don't forget when I inevitably don't write my report okay I'm gonna call the vote Lynn I I am an I councelor ate I uh councelor Ryan hi okay great thank you do I have a motion to adjourn so moved do I have a second second thank you you just hesitant I know this has been a wonderful evening I couldn't imagine anyone else I would rather spend it with than the three of you it's been an absolute pleasure uh ditto always he is so full of you know what I choose to believe him am I know I'm much better mood now I'm not sure why maybe it's just yeah and you know that we all missed the big event I know I know we'll all have to go drink and Shop on our own I know that's yeah just get a flask and then it's a sip and Shop okay uh great this is in our publicly recorded meeting so we need to Now call the vote now that we've discussed the motion uh coun we didn't vote to adjourn councelor I I am an i councelor Ryan I and Lynn I all right thank you all so much did it safe and lovely and peaceful holiday if I don't see you again before then I'll be gone all Christmas week so and I'll be back at the end of December Rea enjoy your trip he's going to Germany the guy we may never see him again and Anna gets to celebrate Christmas and Hanukkah yeah I do it's true and I get to see my brother whom I adore and I only get to see oh nice he's coming to you or you going to him coming to me all right great enjoy safe travels bye