all right you're good to go thank you all right everybody Welcome to the April 4th meeting of the governance organization and legislation committee or go uh Athena I haven't been reading the pursuant to the chapter 20 part um do you the legitimate question do I need to read it every meeting it's really over and above what we okay are are legally required to do we do it as kind of a regular practice but we are I'll I'll go ahead sounds fun uh pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 extended by chapter 22 and 107 of the acts of 2022 and extended Again by chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 this meeting is being conducted via remote means I'm going to go ahead and call us to order and check to make sure each member of the committee can hear and be heard let's start with councelor Ryan I'm here welcome councelor here awesome and Pat Angeles here all right so uh Lynn has let us she will be absent to today um and we will see her next time um all right we're going to go ahead and start with public comment if any members of the public would like to make a public comment of up to three minutes you can go ahead and raise your hand in zoom and we will call on you to make your comment and I will give it about 30 seconds while I pull up the next thing as well okay we are going to move on to seeing no hands I'm going to move on to the first item on our agenda which is the Children's Mental Health Week Proclamation um and Andy Steinberg has emailed me to let me know he is being added as a sponsor to this um Proclamation so if we could bring Andy in as a panelist so I think he's speaking on the yeah I think so um and I will pull this up since L is not here I'm happy to do edits all right thank you hi Andy are you with us hey editing Hi how are you um I'm doing well welcome Athena what did you just ask me go or if you want me to bring it up oh um I don't if it's easy for you to do it but I I don't mind if you'd rather I do it do you have the updated or the I guess I only have the one in the pocket Andy is Mandy Joe joining us as well or is it just you oh you're muted sorry I thought she would be here but uh because I was I'm here really because of the other yeah I'm wondering if we should maybe start with that one and see if Mandy Joe joins us would that make more sense is anyone else joining for the Jewish American Heritage Proclamation no okay why don't we start with that one and then um that'll give give Mandy a chance if she's joining us we obviously just started the meeting so um and then I think that uh yes councelor Ryan so Andy is a sponsor for the uh the Jewish Proclamation or for the children's mental health or both both Andy is going to be added as the sponsor for the Children's Mental Health Proclamation but um Mandy I believe will be joining us so we're going to start right now with Jewish American Heritage Month all right thank you um and with to that note I believe Andy you had some updates to the version that we had in the packet um that you sent me today so let's do Athena what would you say is the best method to go about this if Andy has an updated version should I share the version and sent me or should we make the changes on this version that the most up to-date version together now that would be great okay let me um if you stop sharing I'll share and Andy I just want to confirm with you that this is the most up to-date version that I'm now showing this is the the one that you sent me uh earlier today I think the last part was okay so Andy it would be helpful for us if you could share because the committee didn't have this this version to view if you as we're going through it could specifically identify what has changed in this one from the one that we had in our pockets that would be helpful there's only one we as class that has changed from what you had before I believe that the sponsor list is correct okay great so uh Andy is is there anything you'd like to say before we go through this line by line I mean in general terms uh it's the same Proclamation that we've issued for the past several years uh and uh bery Pam was a prime sponsor from the council side in Prior years and uh We've um it has been a team approach to writing it with Rabbi Wier is the uh sort of lead Community sponsor participating um barely fully uh I think that it's probably not worth going through the whole thing section by section because you've seen it before but I did want to highlight the one section that changed which is the last whereas clause and basically if you compare it with what was in Prior years and I think what was in the version that was in the packet uh was dealing with the question of uh anti-Semitism but it was using um Anti-Defamation League as the source of information and uh we were looking for another approach to address the issue in with with um different um updated statistics and uh so some of my fellow sponsors um came up with uh the FBI uh piece that's noted and um is available through the uh footnote at the bottom which uh you can click on to and get to it and uh I think that it speaks for itself and it's just uh using a different source for stat for the statistical information but covers the same topic okay thank you I know I have some slight grammatical edits to the paragraph that's been added just BAS based on reading it now but we are going to just start at the beginning um and we we typically do go paragraph by paragraph like you said Andy this has gone through go in the past without changes having been made since then so I don't anticipate anything major but um I will give the the go committee time to be pickier than committees passed just in case um so go uh please raise your Zoom hand if you see fit starting off any issues with the title or the sponsor list I personally do not see any okay Pat if you're talking you're muted I just said I thought we could move on oh thanks doesn't take long to um next paragraph first Warehouse any issues here yes councelor I wasn't aware that this has gone through readings for several years and so I was um going to be nitpicky but I'll refrain from that but point out a few things so for this paragraph it has the 350 year history of Jewish contributions to America and American culture and I was wondering when we speak of America are we speaking of the American American continents or are we speaking of the United States any thoughts from other committee members I I believe they mean United States uh of America councelor D or Pat d'angeles did you well I sad to say I've never noticed that and thank you and I think we should change it councelor Ryan um I would be cautious about changing the language uh this is called the Jewish American Heritage Month Proclamation and unless there's a a matter of just confusion or you know so on um I think we should uh let let it let it be okay um councelor ET do you feel strongly that this is uh something that's not clear in the resolution and we should vote on a change I will say that it jumped out at me the first time I read it but I don't feel strongly enough I guess um just having it on the record is good enough for now the only I mean the middle ground that I'm seeing here would be this first one just change it to the United States of America and then the remainder of them can stay America that makes sense does that seem like it might clarify it for everyone so it would be councelor Ryan um is the sponsor okay with it I I was just about to ask yeah thank you uh Andy is that does that sound I think that's fine okay thank you um next whereas councelor I'm not sure of the house style but the pro Proclamation reads that should there be a comma after that I think so because then a quote starts next whereas whereas throughout our history your hand is still up is that a new one or remained okay next one whereas we celebrate whereas as we celebrate coun oh you're muted this is the all fat to work for tikam repair of the world um I don't think it needs to be changed I when I read it the first time if I hadn't known what tikum meant the phrase repair of the world would have been a bit more confusing I don't think it should go I'm wondering if instead of um commas we could use a pair of dashes Council proposing that it would read um I just mess it up hang on would read like this are you saying delete the comma and put two dashes in you could put in parenthesis with quotes or you could just put dashes um I think for um many members of the Jewish Community it's a phrase they know very well um for um members not of that Community perhaps um might help them to see that that's the translation of the Hebrew I personally like that because there's also just a ton of commas in this sentence generally so I think it breaks it up okay whereas in the expansion of Faculty you're speaking about time um so the suggestion I had was during the expansion of Faculty there any objections to changing the word into during that's an improvement I think great than you for your nitpicking and you said you were holding back too so I'm a little your Redline version is okay Andy are you okay with this so far any any objections I'm assuming you will raise them if you have them yes why don't you just make that assumption thank you um whoops all right next one whereas the institutions of high education now here actually I did have a thought um have led in programs um is the sense here have have um have been leaders in the United States or leaders in the world or the phrase have led in programs um I think I know what you mean um but in a sense I don't really know what you mean because it's it's the idea is that um in the in the field of Education higher education essentially in the United States um you know uh is that is that the sense and is there any way to make that do we need to make it clear right you're saying have they LED in terms of being first to have them or have they been leaders within them within that yeah what what is the leadership here is it leadership in the sense of the country as a whole um in in and the academic world in the United States and the academic world in throughout the world um I I assume they don't mean just enamor um they they're referring to a a much larger um so I don't I just that was just somewhat puzzling to me okay uh Andy do you have any thoughts on this not on this one because I would really have to go back to some of our community sponsors uh probably uh maybe just leave it the green um because uh she'd have the most experience to know and probably with a source of the thought here because of uh you know her her husband's role at the University over a long period of time I agree it's confusing um I also I think we could if we wanted to move change the phrasing we could leave it or we could change it to uh institutions of higher education and amorist have um been leaders or I was going to say have have had programs have like supported programs in councelor ET did you have a thought on this yes so speak to this paragraph and I would like us to go back to the previous one for some reason I um skipped some things so when I read this what crossed my mind is preeminence as in that uh UMass has programs that are leading programs preeminent programs in Jewish studies but um I think what judge says might um also be significant which is um maybe UMass isn't just preeminent but was the the Forerunner of these programs so it's it's unclear what it is Count councelor d'angeles or Pat sorry that's you can call me whatever it doesn't matter just not paty or Patty I like the idea have been leaders in or I'm not sure how you said it now George have been leaders in um developing programs in Jewish studies including Holocaust and genocide studies I think councilor has put his finger on it it's the idea of preeminence um which um maybe this captures I'm going to remind us I'm going to just gently remind us we are looking for clarity consistency and actionability here so whatever we do is towards those efforts and those efforts only we are not co-sponsors of this res none of us on the committee are co-sponsors of this so I want to just make sure that as we're thinking about edits we're we're not seeking to change it we're seeking to make it yeah but I think this clarifies something important I don't disagree I just I want to remind us of our purpose here councelor um I think I agree with you on that so I'd like us to go to the previous paragraph okay so are we sorry so before we do that do we are we good with this shift no seeing no objection okay thing I could offer is that uh when you U complete your work on this um and go on to other agenda items I can try and call um sponsor greenbound and uh ask her if she knows what the source of this was and if I can get an answer back from her I can uh come back on and raise my program I won't be I'll be back in the audience at that point but I can always raise my hand if I have anything to contribute so Andy to that note we can wait to vote on this until later on in the meeting uh if you'd like so that any other edits can be made prior to our vote if that works it's just a matter if you want to check on the basis on which this was included originally because this was one probably that was Dorothy Pam consulted numbers of people put it together and how she came to this therefore is something that I don't know okay d you're not I feel comfortable with the change we've made because I do not believe it changes the content of the words I think it it does just clarify what was there initially a bit um I'll leave that up to you Andy if you'd like to counselor ET what was I would assume that it's okay and I'll let you know if she has an object if I reach her and she has anything to say but I would go ahead and just get it done with okay okay thank you sorry I think I froze for a second but it caught you up after um okay councelor ET your comments on this paragraph late 1950s she didn't have an apostrophe because we're speaking not of one year but of several years and I would also work for 60 years as well and then um The Who it isn't at all clear who is being referred to who's concern the University or the faculty I think it's the faculty based on my reading right let's see who I could because it says open to hiring Jewish faculty who speaking of the Jewish faculty went on to make significant contribution and who's going back to the same I I think The Who and the who's tie back to the faculty now yeah that's yeah I think it's okay the way it is okay we're going to jump forward where is the yish book Center okay next whereas amorist is part of the growing Jewish farming movement okay oh c um so you may not be able to hear this but in the background actually is jeopardy and the teams s very slow on pointing to where we're supposed to go through um [Music] I I'm wondering about the comr after 1980 I do not have strong feelings and so I'm happy to delete it if it if it feels true to you that makes sense to me okay okay yeah uh next one anything okay we're back we're on to this new one um I had a couple in here I think I just want to rework the phrasing um when I read this it's it's um I think the way I have it in my head it would read whereas according to a 2023 Federal Bureau of Investigation FBI report titled supplement to the 2021 hate crime statistics comma a total of or 1,590 incidents related to religion were reported in the United States I'm gonna start with that and type it out and can we go from there is that okay okay three Federal Bureau Investigation report oh sorry Sandy shush sorry I'm gonna mute um okay I'm glad everybody got to hear the the dog voices that we use in this house um a total of 1590 incidents oh this is what I was curious about is it can we say hate related incidents or like incidents just feel so broad to me um is it incidents or is it hate crimes oh Andy You're muted sorry Sor was been by being muting myself uh the um I I looked at the report that's the piece that you get to when you do the click onto the link because I wasn't the one who did the original writing I did some edit because the wording was really awkward when it when I saw it the first time um but that is the way that the FBI report I think stated it if I recall correctly um it talked about the number of incidents related to religion meaning hate crime incidents councelor Ryan I would just point out the title of the report is supplement to the 2021 hate crime statistics that was what yeah I think that would for most people reading it they would assume that any incident in such a report would be an an incident of hate crime okay so not just okay so I think I think it's okay I think it's okay incidents related to religion were reported the largest category of religious hate crimes reported I think this is what throws me is we call it hate crimes here we call it incidents here right yeah reported we anti-jewish um is anti- capitalized here I know Jewish is but I don't think it is capitalized shouldn't be no okay uh um you make a good point I don't know um I think it should stay the largest category of religious hate crimes were reported were anti-jewish incidents they were more than half by some right of the religion related incident so that comes directly from the report I think it should stay there sorry it should stay capitalized no no oh what are you talking about I'm talking about the whole rest of it oh okay yeah um councelor Ryan done okay councelor um just wondering about the three instances of reported or at least two of reported and one of if we have any synonyms we could use um okay hang on I feel like we could just take out the second reported yeah I think again we need to be careful um we're not stylists um it this is clear it's really about a Clarity okay and um this is clear um okay I think so let's let's not get too picky about you know how I'd write it or you'd write it unless we feel there's a clear confusion or some kind of unclarity we're trying to correct and here I think it's just we're getting into style and I don't think that matters thank you George that's that's a good reminder I agree with you um all right last last now therefore or only now therefore sorry okay all right I'm going to stop sharing um Andy are you comfortable with us voting on this item now any if you have Amendment you can bring them to the council as well if there if that paragraph is if we did it incorrectly and I'll um you know I'm comfortable with it and I'll just consult with uh Hilda if I don't get her tonight then gives me a little more time yeah no worries um all right then I move to find the Jewish American Heritage Month Proclamation for 2024 clear consistent and actionable is there a thank you sorry it's okay okay and I'm going to call the vote councelor ET hi coun Pat Angeles hi I am an i and councelor Ryan hi all right thank you that passes unanimously with well well passes three in favor none opposed one absent I'm gonna go ahead and save this and Athena I'm gonna email it to you right now so I don't forget um okay what was the vote again it was four in favor and one absent like three and four are basically interchangeable George uh okay you amended if I don't do this now I will forget so I'm just doing it now go ahead okay we're gonna move on to our next Proclamation uh we still do not have Mandy here but um we're going to just quickly go through the um 2024 Children's Mental Health Week Proclamation Andy you're welcome to stay in for this if you'd like all right this is my reminder we are doing not stylistic changes just Clarity consistency and actionability okay so I've made one edit uh so far because councelor Steinberg or councelor Han hanii informed me that councelor Steinberg was being added as a sponsor that's my only edit so far okay uh councelor Ryan so um I take it there are actually two different proclamations one was about awareness and this one's about acceptance and so that's this is a totally different Proclamation this the last one we did was child abuse aware awareness month this one is Children's Mental Health okay yeah they are different different abuse so there are three of them which one awareness awareness acceptance and abuse uh sorry I'm sorry I I'm just that sentence was funny um I think that this the title of this one was uh we had been calling it mental health awareness but it was mental health acceptance I think we had the title wrong all right okay yeah there only right the week is called children's mental health awareness week but that's that's that's an event this is a resolution or Proclamation excuse me we should we should check that because in the proclamation it's referred to as mental health acceptance week okay all right um okay but we're gonna start at the beginning so uh we've got counselors hanii and Steinberg already no okay go ahead councelor first whereas oh no please um continue no no was it about the first one no I don't know if this pleasing to Clarity but it is Children's Mental Health Awareness weak but hinged on children are youth and um I was wondering is there a distinction or is there no distinction between Children and Youth I don't know the answer to that yeah uh anyone else have insights into I think because it's utilized so often I believe that children is probably referring to like under 16 and youth is under 18 but I don't know um that would be my guess I I think that because I think that having both of them makes it more clear not less clear and so I would I'd lean on the side of taking it in versus going through and taking it out everywhere just to be clear I didn't intend to take it out it was more clarity for my I think it's a valid question um yeah okay um second whereare has any issues third whereare has uh just I don't know whether to raise this here or later because there's a a separate where is clawed way down that seems to say pretty much the same thing so um I don't know if we want to deal with that now so yeah you got your cursor was right this one and this one yeah I don't see a lot of difference and I'm wondering if one of them can be taken out or maybe there's a difference and I'm just missing it I think that this one is stronger and I do think they are saying exactly the same thing no no so we would move to strike this one because it is confusing to have it's repetitive and it it's just saying the same thing again it seems unless the sponsors feel that it's it's make I just don't see a different point here and yeah I'm going to ask one of you all to keep an eye on the participants list just in case Mandy joins um if that's okay thank you uh she's not here yet but or she's not here but um no I agree George I think that this is a really repetitive paragraph So I recommend striking it okay um next one whereas Children and Youth with the most intensive needs intense needs sorry intense needs fine whereas it is important this one changes the word to [Laughter] adolescence I I caught it before you said anything councelor because I knew I knew it I knew it um I agree that it's not consistent I do not think that it's so inconsistent that it's a problem but I think it's worth noting for this for next year to the sponsors uh next whereas whereas the involvement in Partnership but I do think that answers our question a little bit more yeah I think it should just be Children and Youth I mean it's just I mean sake of consistency for you know all right all right I was trying to buy I know I know but right okay again let sponsors want to make a point about it but they're yeah they don't right or change it all to ad all right let's let's not get wild y'all we've got so much more to do today let move wait till you're causing a nuisance preview of Coming Attractions okay uh counselor hanii is now in the attende group amazing we can ask her uh Athena could you bring counselor hanii in to the room on it thank you so much welcome Mandy I'm sure you've really missed go uh so welcome back we have got a couple questions for you okay okay so I just want to run you really quickly through the changes we made so far as you see on the screen we've got the resolution uh or the proclamation pulled up what is Proclamation so George pointed out this paragraph right here our nation's future is very much a um oh I lost it where did it go George right here is very much a duplicate in terms of meaning of this paragraph down here so we just cut the shorter one um that's okay and then we our main question centered around the difference between Children and Youth and then in one place the term adolescence was used could you clarify the difference between Children and Youth and would you prefer the term youth or adolescence or is it intentionally adolescence here and nowhere else um so I think youth is intended to refer to adolescents and older children and children is sort of like Elementary aged and younger um most of this nearly all of it comes from a standard Proclamation put out by an organization um and I think that's what I gathered um that that was what they were referring to in sort of a split difference of that okay thank you sorry I turned my video off because my internet connection got a little unstable so I apologize for my video being off I still here councelor Ryan so Mania irrational was just to be consistent um and uh to use children in youth um so that's why we made that change because it's used the Children and Youth everywhere else Mandy is that okay are we all right um okay next one uh is this where we are yeah involvement Partnership of family is there a question councelor did you have your hand up no okay you put it down sorry I had my hand up oh you did okay yes um I'm wondering how how these sentence reads whereas the national Federation of families initiated Children's Mental Health acceptance week together with families um I'm wondering the identity of these families is there specific families or it's broadly families um Mandy I'm not sure I quite understand the question involvement of family members of The Children and Youth are you saying is that like a specific type of family member or is it I think I've lost track of where we are are I we're on this paragraph right here oh were you talking about this one okay I think I was speaking about the one the whereas the national Federation initiated yeah okay uh and you're saying this was the fam's part in question since we're speaking about initiation to initiate something would imply that the actors are visible something specific but the family seems vague um so would it say oh sorry coun Pat I think it should simply read that the national Federation of families initiated blah blah blah to focus on the acceptance because when it says together with families it's a Federation of families so I think it doesn't make any sense to have still yeah it's implied in the Federation Mandy do you have a issue if we strike this no okay all right we can do this whereas good mental health is a key component in a child's healthy development any issues here my question is on the next one it has said acceptance everywhere else and then it says awareness here I just want to confirm that we call it mental health awareness week every everything else say acceptance week so they changed the name this year okay I beginning I think before you got here we were like what's it called yeah so it this is the first year being called me Children's Mental Health acceptance week in the past it's always been children's mental health awareness week so should we change this to be acceptance or is our are we calling our week awareness week I believe the title of the Proclamation this year did I change it to acceptance you did I did but in 2021 we celebrated it as awareness [Laughter] week how about yeah I mean I think it's fine I think that's fine because it does it clarifies it down here that we're calling it acceptance week this year so I think that that's we'll figure it out next year okay I'm moving on y'all we got we got so much on the agenda yes we need to move on uh complex mental health needs okay this year's theme uh this wait hang on this doesn't really make sense to me in celebrating this year's theme lighting the path to social justice for Children and Youth it is fitting and to increase public awareness help me and sorry no you're fine okay um now therefore looks great we're good yep okay um I move that go find the 2024 Children's Mental Health acceptance week Proclamation clear consistent and actionable as edited is there a second there's no second seriously guys I second thank you um uh was calling the vote I got to remember on my committee Pat hi councelor hi councelor Ryan hi and I am an i as well that is for in favor got the math right this time zero opposed one absent Andy and Mandy thank you very very much for for joining us for this um I appreciate it a lot ath thank you for your attention to the proclamations we are nothing if not detailed um all right thank you both so we are going to now move and Mandy I'm saying this quickly before you leave because I'm don't know if you want to stay for the I don't know if we have a quorum if you stay we do I think FR are you on C CRC oh yeah yeah so we have to boot I think we have to boot Mandy back to the audience yep okay um so we are now going to actually wait do we still have a quum of CRC what who's on who's Pat are you on CRC yes councelor at are you on CC when you discuss nuisance bylaw I can go away I'm going to defer to Athena on what to do here Athena we were going to bring uh the chair of CRC into the room but that would give us a quorum of that committee do you have a recommendation on what we should do yeah I as long as um I I think it's fine to bring pamman as long as um she's not uh engaging in the deliberation with the committee so the committee can ask questions about what's going on but I'm going to say that as long as she's not you know participating in the discussion and and conversation about the vote then that's fine so okay thank you I brought Pam in and then yeah if Mandy wants to come in I think she she's already left okay she's like good thanks for coming in Pam I'm assuming that you heard what I said about participating just as a um to give some information to the committee and not participating in the discussion so that we don't get into a deliberation you're muted so I'm sorry we're talking when I was talking but I couldn't hear you I heard that I should just give facts information and you all will deliberate thank you very very much Pam and welcome um councelor Ren would you like me to give Pam an opportunity to give an overview first or do you want to jump in I just I just had a question I guess a point of order um I probably just missed it but we're changing the agenda order um oh sorry yes I was just about to say that I'd like to move this up on the agenda because we have Pam with us to discuss it um and because we're going to see where we get with this um but it is on the council agenda for Monday tentatively we may not we may have to pull it from the council agenda if we don't uh vote it tonight but I wanted to um respect Pam's time and bump this up thank you for pointing that out though I appreciate it so unless there's any objections from the committee I'd like to move this uh up on the agenda to discuss it next okay seeing none Pam welcome Pam is here as the chair of the CRC committee uh and we are looking at the proposed bylaw 3.26 nuisance property um Pam do you want to give us an overview of this before we jump happy happy to and I acknowledge that we have two CRC members here who also participated in this um sorry I wasn't dressed for meeting tonight um an overview um the nuisance bylaw was acknowledged as needing an update uh pretty early on in the process when we discussed the uh rental registration bylaw they are separate they are Standalone and ultimately uh they are in fact almost entirely Standalone at the beginning we tried to link nuisance infractions with the ability to obtain a rental permit and that was uh ultimately struck down however in the rental registration bylaw that we started to talk about on Monday um a a cause of a cause of losing a permit or a consideration of losing a permit might in fact be tied to um sort of the amount of nuisance caused by that particular property so the the the rental registration bylaw addresses that the nuisance bylaw does not say anymore X number of infractions might lose you your permit so that's kind of in in general um I think the I think the intention ought to be clear and that is it's it's never our goal to penalize uh for for um bad behavior if you will but actually to correct the actions that disturb other people's quiet enjoyment of their residents so um that said we we crafted a bylaw that bolsters what we currently have in the books and it broaden the scope from being primarily a nuisance House Party Place serving alcohol to underage students underage people and um and it broadened it a little bit to say that um a we don't differentiate between a rental property or a uh owner occupied property um it does clarify that the owner and and manager but especially the owner is notified on the third offense so that they have a bit of skin in the game and they are able to uh from the start establish guidelines for Behavior appropriate to their rental and we felt that it was important there they are already um uh engaged in the process in today's bylaw but we just made it much clearer um May I'm sorry to interrupt you Pam um I just a point of order from the chair um for the chair we have in front of us a document that has a whole host of comments by the lawyers yes on this document and I assume that that's what we're going to be talking about that and we are just concerned with Clarity consistency and actionability that's correct councilor Rooney is giving an excellent sort of presentation that she will give again to the council explaining the origin and logic and purpose of this bylaw but I think unless I'm mistaken we're not interested in the origin purpose of this bylaw we're just interested in the lawyers comments and whether the sponsors are okay with them and whether this document is clear consistent and actionable um so I I would like us to to get to that um yeah am I missing something here uh not really but we're not just concerned with the lawyer comments we're looking at this as a whole document um just as we would if there weren't a legal opinion we'd be looking at the bylaw for clarity consistency actionability we're not just looking at the legal comments that were received back although we can we can certainly see if there are questions that um the the way Athena framed it beautifully I'm going to try to repeat it and then she can tell me how I did it right or wrong but uh if the answer to one of the questions asked by the legal team is a matter of clarity consistency or actionability it is appropriate for us to try to answer that question if it is not that is something that CRC needs to handle themselves um but we are looking at this document yes for clarity consistency actionability not substantive review right so I would think we should just go directly to the document and to the changes that have been made in it um okay sort of section by section um and figure out what has to go to CRC for their determination and what if anything we might want to examine uh from the point of view of clarity consistency and actionability I legal decision really is about actionability if I understand it um you know and so that CRC is goingon to have to deal with that um and response to the lawyer's concerns so I think we should just go to the document and just work our way through it or le start to I don't know if we can get through it all tonight because we have other things we have to do I know I know so I I'm not sure that this is in my mind priority number one given all the other things we're trying to do but that's a decision that we'll have to make as a group I guess thank you I am gonna give us uh I I've got timing in my head I'm not going to say it out loud because I don't want to be um wrong on my timing so but I have timing in my head uh Athena I think what what Pam is sharing about the purpose of the bylaw is going to be helpful in terms of actionability because the committe is going to be I said actionability on purpose councelor d'angeles in terms of actionability because the committee wants to make sure that the bylaw is doing the thing that it sets out to do so what Pam is sharing about the intent of the bylaw is important for the conversation about actionability you want to make sure that the intent of the bylaw is meeting the text of the bylaw um if there are questions about enforcement I spoke with Captain uh Chief Ting this morning and um I can get him on to make sure that the enforcement is in line with the intent of the bylaw if there are any changes in terms of the language um in that regard thank you uh Pam is there anything you didn't say about the um intent that you'd like to add I I had a couple more points that would just help perhaps give a little bit of a context in your in your consideration I have to admit I only saw the the the KP law comments late this afternoon I think when I actually asked you for them I had not found them in my email yet but they had been sent to me um just a couple other things we um we identified an opportunity to seek response costs that is something that KP law uh responded to um and we also include activities that are deemed violation of state law which is possession and underage drinking we also include violations of zoning bylaw which is new and that is excessive lighting parking and then General bylaws including noise Road and sidewalk obstruction littering and refuge collection so those are sort of the the broad categories that that constitute nuisance and I'd be happy to just be quiet and listen to your conversation okay um Athena do we need to move Pam back to the audience or can she stay here she can stay if you have questions about what CRC did in terms of you know what language they chose and so on then she can answer those questions I've been trying to stop doing a thumbs up because I'm doing my um scuba diving certification and this is like emergency go back to the surface but I can't break the Habit so you'll see me do a lot of this today all right um I'm gonna try to share my screen again if I start to freeze I may Athena ask you to to switch um to sharing screen I don't know if that's part of the but okay I'm happy to start off okay here we go um I think what we're GNA do is I'm gonna just start I'm gonna say numbers and letters um and if you've got thoughts on it again not stylistic Clarity consistency actionability um and we will look at also the legal comments as well let me make this a little bit better okay starting with purpose any and I can't really see um please use your raise your Zoom hand because it pops you up to the top of my window so I'll see you all right no issues with a moving to B definitions um comment one was do we want to Define number of people which constitutes a party or a crowd yes Pam our current bylaw also talks about um parties and Gatherings and it is it is a continuation of the same um phraseology that the APD is used to at this point okay thank you councelor Ryan so I have a question for me of course um um if I understood Pam correctly she's not really had a chance to look at this before either um or is that not true I mean this is I mean my sense is this should go to CRC they should go through it and and and clarify and answer the questions the lawyers have raised raised the number here that we certainly are not capable of answering um and then it should come back to us and then we can go through this exercise I don't see the point of us going through it tonight um since so many of these comments are things we simply can't determine it has to be determined by the sponsors um what they want to do um and I I also like to just point out that actionability actionability is actually defined in our documents um as basically related to Mass General law our Charter and our bylaws that's all it's concerned with um so um I would suggest that this um should go to CRC they should have a chance to go through it and and and make the changes they want to make in response to the lawyers and then it should come back to us uh Athena would George have to make that as an actual motion um I don't know want to handle it yeah we're just reviewing it and I don't see how we can review it without um CRC coming back to us with their answers to these questions and then whatever's left um we can we can then offer our our input okay so I as chair could just send this back to Pam and say please have CRC review this and send it to us when you're done Athena without going through an official vote on that I mean unless Pam feels that that these questions are all questions that go can possibly answer I just don't think they are um and it sounds like she's had had the chance with her committee to review the the lawyer comments I know the committee has not had a okay then I I don't see the point of us proceeding okay um Athena is there any reason why I can't oh sorry I'm sorry Pam I would say I I would I think I would prefer to have a motion saying you know this material just came back from KP law and we're not ready to review it until CRC has has worked through the the wording and and adjusted wording to the um uh approval if you will of of the attorney so and that way a formal Passback rather than just showing up on our desk so it would be a motion to um request CRC review of the legal edits prior to go consideration Athena does that work if that's what you want to do I mean go normally does this legal review so I I'm a little confused but it's up to you if you want to send it back to CC then then make a motion Council Ryan you've had a lot of well if we do this legal review then let's go do it I mean I haven't been on this Committee in two years um I don't remember having to do this kind of thing but if if go does this kind of legal review I just don't see how we can answer some of these questions um my recollection is that go is typically the committee that requests the legal review and so we get something we ask for a legal review the legal team sends it back to us to take their thought I don't know that go has had legal review that's to this extent um before I think that that's what's throwing us off right is that there's a lot in here from from the legal team um and as we go through it there may be things that we feel go that the answers to the questions would be Beyond Clarity consistency and actionability I think that if that's the the point that count that counselors feel we are at it would make sense to send it back to CRC if you feel that answering the questions posed by the legal team would be stepping out of our bounds then then we should reasonably send this back to CRC if the answers to these questions are matters of clarity consistency and actionability we should handle it I look at this and I do see some that might be Beyond it and I see some that we could absolutely handle so I I can go either way um I I what I don't want to have happen is us to go through and respond to something and then it go to the council and have CRC say why did you answer this we had a totally different idea um that's the only thing I don't want to have happen councelor ET um this is a question for councelor Rey is there a I'm time sensitivity to this [Music] particular what we have before us cuz if there isn't then I would join um councelor Ryan in sending it back to DCC so we could have a look at it Pam this is not time sensitive the red rental registration is more time sensitive because it it asks for consideration in the town budget this does not this is already be being implemented by our Building Commissioner and or uh police department so it would be just a sort of an update of what they're currently doing and broadening it a little bit so I the short answer no it doesn't really affect the timing of it or we're not affected by the timing of it excuse me thank you Athena um I can help uh frame a motion if that's what you're interested in the the council's um process for the past I say a couple years has been to send bylaws to committee for development especially CRC for the rental registration bylaw they worked for a long time on that and then once CRC had um finished their work on it went to go go did this kind of legal review with input from the town attorney and then it came back to the council ultimately went back to CRC for further work and now it's now it's coming back to the council but that's the process that the practice that we've had for quite some time is for a bylaw to go to a committee and then the last pass is at go for that legal review and the KP law part usually comes at this point so I don't see this as a very different practice from in the past but if you'd like to um request CRC have input before go takes action on it then I would suggest a motion to request CRC uh review the feedback from the town attorney and um report back to go councilor Ryan would you like to make that motion uh no maybe what we need to do um is follow Athena's guidance because she's had experience with this committee for the last two years and but I would then simply as a courtesy ask that we put this on our next agenda at the top and so we can work our way through it uh systematically and carefully and um and follow the process that has been followed before I do feel there are a number of things here I'm not quite sure what I would say tonight about these things I really haven't had a chance given other things that we've been doing and working on um to look at this in the detail it requires so um rather than try and wing it um I gu I don't know maybe others feel differently but I would like to have a chance to look at this in Greater care with greater detail and then we will do what Athena has said we've done in the past um and at that point um if we feel there are things that we have to send to CRC then we will so maybe we should hold off on a motion and and I would just ask that we postpone this to a future to to our next meeting and put it at the top of the agenda I guess that's what I would ask okay uh Pat Uh I can see putting it on the next agenda but I that makes no sense not to have CRC look at it and they meet next week I believe um no not until the 30th okay but it does seem if if we're going to look at it and then send it back to them anyway why not give it to them first and have it come back to us so that we can just go through it is we're just look at the amount of time we've taken just now just to figure this out and so what we're saying is we're going to move it we'll look do what we can then we'll send it to them so why not just send it to them and then have it come back okay I'm going to need someone to either make a motion or start making some edits that's where I'm at now because we are at 8:30 so um if someone would like to make a motion to send this to CRC let's do it if someone's ready to dive in let's do that councelor Ryan there's still is there is a third option which is just to put this off to the next meeting absolutely we can also do that um I will not be at the next meeting councelor are you comfortable leading this discussion at the next meeting yes I am with the help of everyone especially atina okay um so I would like to thank Pam very much for coming to this meeting and I apologize that we're not digging in deeper I think if you're able to join us for the next one you're welcome to but I think you've given us the overview so I don't know if you need to um but if you want to observe you're welcome to to observe those deliberations um in the meantime is there a reason why Pam can't share this with CRC I already have oh great I was gonna say it's a public it's in our folder so there's no reason why not okay I sent it to those I sent it to those who hadn't received it um today for today um but I was going to ask when is your next go meeting our next go meeting is is the 18th or the 19th it's the um not next Thursday but the Thursday after the 18th at 7:30 okay um all right with that we are going to uh I don't know that we need to formally po formally postpone it because we did kind of talk about it a little bit but we will continue this at our next meeting um yes I just want to say thank you and I'm going to sign off I am not going to be able to make it to a meeting on the 18th but if you would like some representation we have councelor ET and Pat d'angeles oh my gosh so they they should be able to answer that if you would like to have someone else like Jennifer or Mandy show up um I'm sure either of them would be willing if they are available so thank you you very very much appreciate thank you okay Al righty we're going to bump back up to non-voting finance Committee Member appointment y um this did you just say yep nope on that George voting finance committee this one has not received any new CFS to my yeah I know that's what I said sorry I think I froze for um okay so we are on the the finance committee I'm just double- checking I don't believe we have received any new calfs for this committee is there anyone who would like to make a motion otherwise we will move on okay 2024 Charter Review Committee appointment recommendations to the Town Council uh yeah Pat you're muted but yeah I'm sorry I didn't move quickly uh there was a calf that came in yesterday or today that didn't list what they were applying for and it just said something like all committees um I can I so I don't know whether we would include that in this pool or not let me check on that yeah I think I missed that thank you um okay well we can come back to it but let's move on to the other oh Athena did you unmute to to check on it already I'm checking now okay thank you please go ahead don't wait you're good I was pulling up my document um all right so I have been tracking the number of casts that we've received for the charter Review Committee and I'm just wanting to double check my numbers because I know George also tracks um as well I am seeing that we have 16 [Music] 17 I have 19 actually 19 oh I missed one yep sorry well that's the 18 well I I have 19 um did you take away the person who withdrew uh I don't know who the person was who withdrew and uh so maybe that's the difference but um and how do we find this out and I mean it would be helpful if we had a folder on SharePoint that had all the Cs in it and we could go and find them as I reached out to Athena reached out to you somehow I lost I don't know how um four or five Cals um I've searched diligently through uh my uh counselor email and they've just disappeared now I'm sure I must have done something but I can find all the others but there are 1 two 3 four five calfs that have that have just gone and it would be really helpful if we just put them all I mean I should have done this myself I should have just put them into a file um and then I would have them but I left them on our uh mail account and usually you can find them very easily by typing in a search term and all of them turn up but not those five so um you have 18 I have 19 does anyone actually know how many we have I'm Al I'm at I'm at 18 um 18 okay good Athena are you but that includes the one that I think was a withdraw I mean sorry does not include Athena are you um able to pull a complete respons list versus searching through emails S I can do that um Pat had asked a question about somebody who submitted a cap that was that didn't indicate what they what committee I'm not seeing that I'm seeing Charter Review Committee planning board Charter Review Committee Finance so I don't see one where someone didn't indicate I can I can pull down a list um it could be my mistake but I thought I remember looking at it twice but I'll see if I can find it later it's not important um so what other committees um CRC and go in the past had done was when those CS came in email they just saved them and put them in a folder and the chair took care of that I'm sort of trying to manage the website and SharePoint for I think all the council committees at this point plus BCG and jcpc so I'm G to ask for your patience um if you don't if you don't want to take that on then I can I can pull down a list and give you a spreadsheet next time you look I can difficult to keep on top of all of those things for all the different committees but I encourage you to create a folder on your computer okay so individual okay so you're okay sorry I'm pulling my head together I will create a folder in the go committee file and put PDFs of the calfs in that folder and I will do that tomorrow thank you um and I'm putting it on my calendar so that I do it tomorrow um in the meantime Athena are you able to confirm our number is it an e download or do you have to go through and search the emails just like we do I can download a list it would be helpful if you'd be able to confirm just the number for us um today I believe we're at sounds well I think I had accidentally counted a planning board one when I just went back through so I think be good to double check I I think it's 19 I need to check because there was there was one other person who withdrew besides the person who withdrew prior to January 20 so I think we have 18 okay all right with that we have 18 tentatively Community activity forms for for the 2024 Charter Review Committee we have we will need to um make a motion to approve the sufficiency of the applicant pool Mr Ryan I move to declare the pool sufficient is there a second second thank you councelor I'm GNA call the vote Pat can we can we discuss it just briefly oh of course I'm so sorry yeah I mean I'm sure the public would like to understand and I would like to understand myself actually in my own mind um why this has taken as long as it's taken um uh my feeling was that a committee of this size um I still think it's too large but it's nine that's what it is um we should have at least twice as many applicants as as uh people were going to recommend I'd like to have more um it was pointed out at the last council meeting that um just because we declare the pool sufficient this evening if we do um people can still apply and I'm hoping they will um my personal feeling is the more the marrier but I think um I personally believe this I don't any of the other committee members feel that at this point 18 um is is is a sufficient number it's not an ideal number I'd like more but I think we can move ahead so that's my thinking I don't know if others share that but that's that's I just wanted to put that out there so people understand um why it's taken as long as it's taken and why tonight I at least would like to declare the more sufficient thank you any other discussion councelor um I'd like to Second what um councelor Ryan said I don't think it can be emphasized enough that this is an opportunity for members of our community to participate in the political process and being that that is the case even though we are declaring the we will be voting to declare the pool sufficient there's still room for those who are interested in participation to still proceed if they can and increase the numbers because again the more we have the better it will be to figure out how to end up with those who will be on the committee thank you councelor sorry for turning my camera off my internet started freezing again um I appreciate that both of you and and yes encourage people to please continue to submit cafs for this committee um and yeah it's not this is not the stop point for those coming in I'm going to go ahead and call the vote now at this point we are voting to find this pool sufficient councelor Ryan I at d'angeles hi councelor hi and I am an i y'all we did it um well we didn't do it people applying did it but thank you so we need to now look at because we have found the pool sufficient we can move on to the next step in Georgia's really handy sample timeline that he created many years ago um for fincom that I'm basing this off of according to that timeline we typically want to give about um three weeks for these interviews to happen uh we hopefully will not experience a major melt rate and um so we should plan sufficient time so we're looking at around early May for this I don't know if it makes sense for us to try to figure this out tonight or if you'd like for me to um come back I can actually send this to counselor ET for the next meeting um which I won't be there but I can send some kind of sample or some some recommendations for when deadlines for statements of Interest as well as uh interview dates might be if that's something people would find helpful I guess I'm looking for some advice from the committee on what the best way to move forward is if you want to Hash it out tonight or if you want me to send ideas councelor Ryan I think it would be helpful if you could if you have time to Simply sit down and make up a calendar um and then share it with the committee um for us to review I don't think it makes sense for us to try and do this as a group I think it's something that you've got a model from previous times which hopefully will be helpful and you've got the calendar in front of you and I would just you know take a few minutes and and put together what you think of as a reasonable calendar and then uh put that in SharePoint or share it with the committee for the next meeting for us to review and discuss um I think that's I think the the other issues that we do need to discuss if not tonight very soon is do we want what time do we want to do this how much time can we give to it um there's some just practical questions but I think a calendar something that would be very helpful if you could just produce it and then we could look at it and if we had any changes we could recommend them but okay thank you that's really helpful um let's figure out that first part that you talked about today about how much time because that's going to inform the calendar that I put together um so if we assume that we are going to be interviewing 18 people um we have our interview questions and I need to pull them up to make sure I've got how many we we um are looking for here all right actually I I have a a very particular question for everybody do we want to do all of them in one night I mean maybe you had experience with this and you were able to get through I mean we could have 2025 by the time we're done um are we going to do 20 or 25 people all in one evening um and the answer may be yes um but I think we need to to think that through um maybe some of you have had experience with that large a pool with and also we have to ask how many questions so if we are doing a large number of people we might want to try and cut our questions down to a fewer number um but first of all do we want to do everybody in one sitting and do we want to do it at night I think night probably is the only time we can do it um but uh there's that question and how many anyone have an answer for councelor Ryan I me given experience others have had like pat yourself um obviously fre and I um haven't had recent experience at all um I have not ever dealt with that larger group number yeah exactly large yeah so do it over two nights um do it all at once that's the first question it seems like doing it all at once would be kind of ridiculous I think that we would just end up being tired and overwhelmed so I think that it should be two nights the question if we do it in two nights is are we unfairly advantaging the people on the second night because they will have gotten to watch the first night well remember they all get the same questions and many of them tend to just read their answers um again it's not my idea of how to do this but it's the way we do it so um I don't see that that's a real issue um I don't know okay what do others think I mean do they think that that gives an undue advantage that's I I don't know I guess I'm agnostic I don't necessarily think it gives an undue Advantage because we share the interview questions in advance and because we are not deliberating at the meeting um I think those if we were doing either of those things it would but um because we are not I I don't think that it does another thing yeah I'm sorry I was just confirming that we voted the interview questions for finance but we did not vote them for the charter committee um according to my my data so we can edit those um when can I ask a question about the process again my understanding is that we ask we have 20 people say we have 25 people in front of us and we decide to do it in one night first question all 25 people answer that question second question all 25 people answer that question um that is the way we're going to do it right uh that was the way that we did it when we so the the closest experience that I have with this is when we had the school committee uh appointment and so that was I think what was it like 10 people Pat maybe I think yeah so um and that was how we did it was every single person answered every single question then we and we switched up the order um of who answered the question and I'd be I think that that would be smart to do is not just go down the line every single time um I think that personally we should split it into two nights nine people for night it's it's a long meeting but I think that that's fine um and yeah can I offer an alternative and I I it's been a while since I thought about this but what if we did rather than do the same question with all the people um since they have the questions in advance we bring each individual into the room and we ask them the questions and then we go on to the next person and the next person next person why can't we do that why can't we just have a one-on-one everybody knows what the questions are everyone's had the questions in advance um why do we make them sit there U and listen to you know 15 other answers why not do them the respect of you know so we tell you tell them look we're doing these interviews Tuesday night between seven and and 8 or seven and nine and here's the order and uh just please be here by such and such a time and when their time comes up we bring them into the room we ask them the questions then we move on to the next person why can't we do it that way what's wrong with that nothing's wrong with it George I actually think that's a really compelling idea um then we can give people time slots based on the number of questions yeah but maybe I'm missing something but I just don't yeah yeah I me I don't see anything wrong with it but I would suggest either way that we have deliberation on a separate evening than listen to people and then deliberate I agree so we divide it into two groups and and we meet individually with each one of them right and yeah almost like a hearing style the way that that works of like you have your start time councelor ete um thank you this is a very uh fruitful discussion on Tuesday we had some interviews as well there were seven and it was exhausting with just seven um and so I think what we should be looking at is um a couple of nights for the interview and deliberation would not be on either of those nights so we should be looking at about three um separate meetings for this yep okay so we're going to look at three meetings um we're going to need to cut our questions down I'm just going to say that right now um we're at 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 questions um so I'm going to recommend we either cut those down or we give them a minute to answer each one um I do think that ideally in my mind and this is kind of arbitrary but ideally in my mind each interview would be about 15 minutes um does that seem too short I I think that that feels seems too long I think you know 10 minutes it should be more than enough um right anyway wait I'm sorry 15 minutes times yeah it's it's a little over two hours I mean one question I have and I I'm sorry Anna but I still don't I haven't seen or maybe it's not there but I haven't seen actually our list of of questions I have something that I where is it I maybe I just I it's there and I just didn't find it it's not in this packet it would have been in an old packet I believe in an old packet okay I do have it somewhere I apologize it wasn't in this packet because I wasn't anticipating that we would get into tonight sure yeah and so I thought you were going to edit it I thought you were going to go through it and and tidy it up a bit and maybe I don't I did let me put it back in the packet for the next meeting um I I just accepted the track changes that we made in the meeting I didn't do much beyond that but um let me put it in the packet for a future meeting um I got a next meeting is looking a bit more unwieldy than I think was intentional Anna would it be useful for us to do it right now I mean are people up for that I mean just put it on the screen and let's let's take a whack at it um on our agenda so we can do that sure yeah it's I don't know what do people feel do they want to do I think it's worth looking at and figuring out what are the essential things we want to know not you know right we have a half an hour left I would rather spend that half an hour finalizing or or at least getting closer on our interview questions um than doing the um Town manager evaluation it feels more pressing in my mind than that so I'm going to prioritize that um if you did your homework for this week I'm very very grateful to you and I want to talk about it George we can't do everything came back teacher I did my homework come on I'm so proud of you good job gold star I got a gold star hang on to that that means you have less homework to do this week so I doubt it I doubt yeah okay yeah I can give you three more if you want all right so but rather spend the time focusing on this let's let's let's to the the questions here gosh I hope I did what I was supposed to do I thought I thought I did but now I'm not sure okay um here is what we've got if I didn't do what I was supposed to do uh then I will apologize profusely and do it for next time um and if my computer starts to lag uh Athena I will share this document with you so far it seems to cooperating with me all right Charter Review Committee interview questions take a minute to ref familiarize ourselves ourselves um Athena what I will do is send this to you as a PDF to put in the packet and I apologize I should have had it in there anyway let's start with this first section just this first section please councelor Ryan I think we do want something I think we do want a qu I mean if we look the broad categories I mean ideally if we could just have four questions one well oops I'm scroll down there's a fifth one I was trying to I was trying to make sure folks saw that that was if we could just compress each one of these to one question yeah I mean the other thing is to think just practically if you want trying to keep this to a reasonable length of time per person and you want to give people a chance to to answer um you can't have more than five or six questions right how many did CRC have for your candidates I don't remember um I'm pausing for a second I just want to pull up the and I don't want to do it on the thing because I put it in the pocket coun will probably know that uh councelor or councelor did you have an answer to that so they were eight questions of substance and two questions oh that's right where flimsy yeah kind of yes or no yes or no that's 10 questions that's yeah I just maybe others think that's great but I mean I mean imagine two two hours into this and you're working your way through question number seven I do think that we don't want to cut it down to the getting what we oh sorry that's we're let's see if we can edit each category down and then see how many we have because if right now to if we have two in each category we can still look at it again but you know not to start at all right doesn't make any sense um sorry I just had to share this with Athena because my computer started glitching but it's like figuring out what is the most important piece of this or combined piece of this question okay so I would opt for B in under charar that would be the one that I would think would be the most important see I thought man just speak or like go ahead Pat if it start counselor Ryan I get to decide that uh Pat go ahead and speak but if it starts to get unwieldy I'm gonna enforce hands yeah it's just I can't see yeah anyway it seems to me is what what's your experience are or what's your thoughts about the charter are there particular areas you see as strengths or weaknesses um the role of the charter committee we're going to be saying that to them over and over again you can't change this you can't change you know it's like so do we really need a question that asks them that they know what's already been in the documents I agree Pat I would prefer question a because I feel that regardless of their understanding of the role their understanding of the role of the charter committee does not change the role of the charter committee so whether or not they did their homework to know what that role is they are still Bound by that role um and so for me I see priority being where what's your experience been because that's going to get more at our selection guidance councelor Ryan I think B is we're trying to get we're trying to get at what what they think and know so it's it's not so much about the TR review we you know we want to understand we want to get a sense of what have they done any I just want to have hear what they think about what they think the role of the charter Review Committee is just tell me and the fact that they've got it completely wrong or they completely misunderstand it is important information um a bothers me because it's kind of like already we're getting into like tell us what you want to change tell us what you want to keep and it's like why not go through the process before you decide it's like in a jury right you know some juries I guess you come in and immediately everybody takes a vote guilty or innocent I think the good juries start with just let's look at the evidence let's find out what the you right so I'm I'm I don't like a but maybe I'm the only one um I'm really not interested in their views at this point I want to find out do they know anything about the charter Review Committee just very simple tell me what your understanding of the role of the charterview committeee is councilor Ryan can I ask why you're you are emphasizing their understanding of the committee versus the charter itself because um I don't think they really have read the charter carefully most of them and I I would I don't think that's a bad thing I think that's a sign of probably a reasonable human being um and um but they will be reading it and they will be guided through it very carefully by Athena and others um so I'm not worried about that but I'm what I want to do is get a sense of where they're coming from um about the committee can we hear from councelor ET we can but I want to raise my hand first and and if counc has something to add I'm sure he will also raise his hand um I think the my thought George is I I have a really similar inclination to you in terms of what I want to know but my concern or my my confidence in what they will learn is actually in the other direction oh my gosh um sorry I'm going to stop sharing for a second because my computer is giving me the spinning wheel of death um so my confidence is that they will be shepherded through this process of what the committee can and can't do and I would rather know they don't have to have read the whole Charter and maybe getting rid of that second part that says you know are there particular areas you see as strengths and weaknesses or missing elements that's fine and just asking what their experience with the charter has been is enough but for me I want to know more about how they've in so I'm I'm bringing this back to our selection guidance right of we want people with a variety of different experiences in terms of how they've experienced the charter and so for me that's that's more telling than have you read the committee charge and do you understand it because even if they don't understand it they can't go beyond it so I think that's that's where I get stuck in preferring question a um Athena are you able to pull this up by any chance I shared it with you on um in your email um I didn't I don't have it in here I'm checking now I like I just did it sorry y' my internet is uncooperative counselor ET Pat any thoughts about this strong feelings all coun yeah I'm stuned because I do agree that A and B are stronger questions C is a question we could ask if we had as much time as we needed but in the absence of time it boils I think to A and B and there are strong or good reasons why we could have either okay oh sorry let me pulat on that fors Anna your email hasn't come up when I see it I can pull it up sorry and I prefer a okay here's what so yeah but the document I'm gonna pull it up just give me a second what I'm gonna say for right now is we started with the most important arguably the most important question um so I think what I would like to suggest is that we tentatively delete the question of how do you see the charter impacting different populations leave the first two and come back to those if we need to in the end but right now let's just leave the first two and move on to the other sections um Athena I'm going to try sending you a link instead and see if that works sorry apologies okay the next section is prior exper uh prior experiences um let me try sharing again and turning my video off to see if that helps so my first thought here as I read this is I think questions A and B could be combined just to say what experiences or skills do you bring that might be helpful to the group have you hel ever held elective office ex had experience in town government served on any Town board and committees or I I think these can all be squished right like this first question is getting at these um right so could we just keep the first question and make sure that we share the selection guidance that emphasizes engagement in town government engagement as volunteers Etc so I'm sorry um Anna if I may um what you like to do is connect D with B is that right uh I would either like to keep a or D I think that they're pretty much the same question phrase different ways um I think that B and C are asking about specific experiences that we might find helpful but um they could bring up by answering either a or D and I think I think excuse me sorry Pat yeah um I think we should go with d it is the same as a only it's stated in a better way okay do you think that we could add experiences and our skills no because they're in there aren't just to bring it to this right I don't think you need those but I wouldn't I don't object if they're there okay okay this is change now all right I'm gonna okay I don't even want to touch this one um I want to touch it all right you go uh I would like to get rid of it all uh the question about students and college towns and what you like that shouldn't even be in there how do you stay informed and up todate about town Affairs that might be interesting I don't you know yeah right but I think there is good let's take a out and leave B yeah okay uh workstyle Charter Comm oh you can read sorry yep we've got these are the same thing this is the same thing I think we can pick one of a b or c I like a yeah I like a too rea Rea any thoughts councelor excuse me so this question especially I think something like a was asked on Tuesday uhhuh and only one out of the seven gave an answer that was more than waffling was more than what I'm sorry offing everybody has worked in groups but only one person um spoke specifically about an instance within a group of something that was done [Music] um would you think B might be better then so experience with a group working with a group public or private I think we're collaborating with a group maybe see I don't know I think be or maybe but perhaps the difference is what did you find challenging so it isn't enough to say I work well with groups what do you find challenging about working with a group so maybe yeah what about C which highlights controversy conflict and trying to resolve it collaboration oh everybody's got a good story I like what councelor is saying better uh for which one again a a the question of what did you like and what did you find challenging councelor am I understanding you correctly that those were the compelling parts of a that you yeah so the question isn't just tell us about an experience you had with the group but what worked well and what was challenging so you like a that's what okay I miss yeah I think that's where we're circling is to keep a get rid of B okay get rid of C okay so then we are definitely D I really like D and I really hate D you hate it yes why okay tell me why I'm shut up let me shut up I'm sorry why do you like D I like d because I think that it allows us to look for for um when we look at our selection guidance we wanted to make sure we had a broad variety of perspectives and one of the key elements in this Charter committee was the ability to do community outreach and so for me this is important and I think that it it covers e um yes okay so I think we could get rid of e but keep D yeah get rid of e because people always have a no pun intended Pat answer on that one anyway so it's not a valuable question good good um I don't think we need this no we don't I think the commit oh I'm sorry councelor ETA your hand was up oh um it was just to agree with eliminating e so the question asked was on Tuesday Tuesday what is your approach to public input someone said every case is different someone else said listen to everybody consider all viewpoints um another person it is important to get input from everyone so um helpful okay yeah there's there's not much that can be gained with that question yeah you that's really helpful feedback thank you um okay so uh I think that we should under the miscellaneous category get rid of a the will deter their own times to meet it does not we are not responsible for that b is fine I like B I think ending with B is important all right so let's count one two three four five six seven no no no no no seven is hear me out that it's it's still longer than what George wants but if we if we give three minutes per question 20 minutes per person no I think you only want to give a minute or two oh gosh okay two minutes one minute is way too short no one is too short two minutes is fine two minutes is brutal but okay um well it's like I'm thinking about public comment yeah it go sometimes when somebody has three minutes they go on and on and on know that they have two minutes they really what is the most important thing about what I want to say we're still might be yeah I don't know whether you can see it on a Athena has her hand raised I apologize my computer froze and I missed the last 30 seconds uh Athena your hand is up I was just going to mention that the council did the school committee interviews and did a minute per question that was pretty effective actually really smoothly I thought all right all right we did one minute really wow yeah um okay then I can be convinced of two how about 90 seconds all right all right let's not get silly here I I think 90 seconds is a bit tough to hold to two minutes on seven questions would be basically 15 minutes uh and we have to say hello and goodbye so it becomes up to 20 minutes per person yeah okay um I would rather get rid of a question than drop this to a minute really that's me I'm not the whole committee I'm I'm saying I'm saying that because I think what we're asking I mean some of these questions are multi multiple questions in one right what's your experience with the charter are there areas you see as strengths weaknesses or missing elements and to answer that in one qu one minute is really tough and while I think that it did move through the school committee interviews went fast um I don't know that I think one minute's really hard I'm really one minute's really tough I don't know I could be convinced I think we could eliminate the last question with miscellaneous which is tell us um some some other thing about yourself that makes you a strong candidate but within the questions we already have opportunities to speak to some strengths H so um what are you sorry could you repeat what you were pitching again I think I missed that just uh delete the last question the last one I really I would advocate for the last one because I think in case there's something that we didn't ask that they really want to make sure we know I think it's kind of that catchall question I don't know that everyone will take advantage of it um and we could change it to is there anything else you would like us to know instead of what else would you like us to know but I think that if there's something that people didn't have the opportunity to say that they think it's very important that we know um that's where I I want to I want to give them that opportunity my pitch for getting rid of a question would be how do you stay informed and upto-date on Town Affairs I could get rid of that one too councelor Ryan I would really like to have some sense of how people learn about our town okay I I I I guess if we have to drop one maybe that's the one they'll have to go but I would and I don't think there's a right answer I don't know what the answer would be I know what I my answer would be but I'd be curious to hear what other people's answers are um and give us a sense to what degree they um you know are engaged I I mean that was kind of the idea behind volunteering and you know service on board are you engaged in our town um and just tell us a little bit about that but this is one way to do it but didn't we just ask that with what experience yeah I'm not I'm not Chang I think we did that but I'd like to keep this if we could okay all right I hear you um I have a question for CRC members and then councelor I want to hear your comment which is how how long did you give folks again to respond to questions do you remember I don't know if we had a time set oh you lucky ducks okay uh counselor ET what was your comment yes so that's true we did leave that open um but to to go back this question that I um would like to see removed was question eight for us and um one of the answers that we had was someone saying that they have a passion for zoning issues in town of course this is an interview for the zba my hope would be that you have a passion for zoning um someone else mentioned having 2 years ZB experience which was in a statement another person four years someone mentioned being committed to serving the community another person has uh nine years and actually there was only one person who gave an answer that you could say was startling and the person mentioned that they were a strong supporter of in-person meetings rather than just meetings on Zoom um and so there wasn't anything that was added in answering this question okay I have a thought um I hear what you're saying when we did the school committee interviews we gave folks one minute to give an opening statement and one minute to give a closing statement that is something that we do not have in this we could offer minute to give a closing statement in lie of that last question um people can reiterate strong points that they've already made uh or say whatever they want but we can say you have one minute to make a closing statement if you'd like it and we give them that ahead of time would that be something that people would be comfortable with councilor Ryan I think with school committee the idea is that you're running for office and you're making a pitch so your closing statement is kind of your you know here's what I stand for and please vote for me um here I think we're asking them questions to try and get a better understanding of whether we think they would be an excellent candidate for this body um and I I kind of like the question the way it stands or just get rid of it I think as giving people a minute for a closing statement sounds like you're making an argument or a pitch and actually I I I i' resist that if the rest of the committee would like to make this one minute I I will respect Democratic process and get out voted is that would people want to keep responses to one minute councelor Ryan yeah I yeah I'm sorry I shouldn't have raised my hand I don't know I it's yeah don't yeah um some people would some people I've experience we'll talk forever oh I won't let that happen um and um they just you know and you just have to say say thank you that that your time is up um if we have two minutes and we have seven questions it's essentially a 20 minute exercise per person um it's not the end of the world but you know given 20 people um that's 400 minutes that's uh what that's a lot of hours it's six hours yeah that's that's three hours per two nights so if we can find a way I not sure that more time means better answers okay I see that point and you know you as chair assuming you were I assume you'd be the one asking the questions that's you can also use your judgment and maybe give somebody another 20 seconds if they're on a roll but I don't know I don't know I will be [Laughter] consistent that's right that's fair I do all right if folks would like to to make this a one minute response we can make it a one minut one minute response if we can get it down to five then I'd go for two but I think at the moment we have seven I think at least so unless we M I see your point I do see your point yeah I see that point but I also feel I'm not ready to say one minute um we don't even know if all 18 people you know we keep talking about 20 and 25 all of which is possible um but I I have what I feel like what's more possible is 16 out of the 18 are going to actually want to do this when it comes to it I don't know maybe I'm wrong it is 9:26 I'm going to say we write you will have one to two minutes to answer each question um and pause it at that point yeah and I think we should get rid of the last question I really would I will I will vote against that motion I would like to keep it in there I think that it's important because I do think that even though you know I I hear what you said on that uh on on what you hear for zba but you also did hear from one person something that was helpful and well let's vote on it fine hang on do we want to do that now or I think you're were gonna take these questions shrink them to the number and then we're going to look at it next next time I'm about to make us go back to raising hands between the two of you so uh we will I will send you a final copy for the next one I will not be at that meeting I would like to voice for the record my strong opposition to getting rid of that last question and I'm concerned about putting this on the next meeting agenda because I don't want it off there and I'd like to be able to vote on it so I'm just I'm naming that now um but I will I will accept the changes that we talked about today and I will send an updated copy to um Athena for the next packet and if I have to call in to die on that Hill I will call in to die on that Hill uh councelor Ryan would you like us we could vote on I could make a motion um but I it would be just for that particular item I think it would be two too because I would I'm with you think so too yeah I I'm with you I would ask that we keep it y'all are really gonna make me leave my vacation event to call into this meeting next week you're killing me d'angelus we're gonna have a conversation all right um we so it does not sound like people would like to vote on this tonight we would vote on the entire set of questions tonight tonight am I hearing a motion for that no okay councelor you unmuted um I think your supports is heard even by me oh and then yeah and the the is a space for that question and I think it can be kept but I think we could hold off until the next meeting and until you have paired [Music] down the list to something manageable okay um what I would like to do oh man um all right so I'm going to accept the deletions that we made and send this out um for the next packet uh councelor Ryan at the very bottom we describe the at least the document I saw earlier the process we're going to follow yes would you be willing to put into it the suggestion that we're going to interview each person serially we're going to um okay so we're going to say oh yeah because right now it says all applicants will answer question after it is asked so we're going to instead phrase it as all applicants um will answer all question how do you how did you phrase that um we're just going to enter each applicant will be interviewed separately you'll be given a uh a specific time when you'll be brought into this Zoom meeting something maybe something like each candidate will be asked the same question during their interview something and interviewed serly and you'll be given a specific time um I think that makes sense I think it sounds like everyone at least present this evening agrees um but we'll vote on that I guess next time but each candidate will be interviewed separately at a specific time given via Zoom uh yeah and again it's important Pat's Point they'll be asked the same questions so everyone will be asked the same questions and but interviewed separately something that yep got it okay okay um we still need to figure out the time issue one to two minutes is what I have in there now uh we can edit that as needed I think what here's what I would like you to do I'd like you to read these questions and I'd like you to pretend you're an applicant answer them as you want to answer them and time yourself and if you can give an answer that you as an interviewer would find helpful in one minute I will and I will do the same thing we will be happy with one minute if it takes you two takes you two no more than two oh councelor sorry I call you but then I think my computer froze okay yeah I think I'm fine with having one or two because if one is going to privilege those who are Swift of speech and um which isn't necessarily the same thing as being better prepared they are those who just can speak fast and can feel fill the time with words so one or two leaves room for those who have few or more things to say and if we are interviewing by block and we have a Cod of time for each interview then it might be the case that for some of the questions candidates might be more interested in speaking on some questions more than others and so the total time might be the same rather than just making it um discret in maybe one minute for each question as someone who can fill any time allotted with any words I hear what you're saying it is 9:32 and I'd like to be respectful of time I think this is one of the first times I've gone over so I apologize for that we're going to stop it here tonight I will I will accept the changes that we've made I will keep one to two minutes in there unless people are feeling ready to vote on this with those changes right now no we're not ready okay um for your next meeting for our next meeting I will have I just I'm confirming this verbally to you all you will have an updated questions list I'm going to put the selection guidance back in the file for the next meeting um we will have a calf's list as a reminder that is not a public document um but that will be I'm going to pull those and I'll confirm the list with Athena um you will ahead I went ahead and posted the list I sent everybody links thank you so much thank you um you will have the um nuisance bylaw as well to discuss next week and then if you get to town manager evaluations you get to town manager evaluations but I think that you've get you've got a lot on there I will also send you a draft calendar um with some options for interview dates based on this yes okay all right right thank you all so much I apologize for keeping you over time is there anything no no that you don't need to apologize for that that's I do no no no no no it does happen yeah but now you're wasting it no all right I would like to move to adjourn At 9:34 PM is there a second we have to do the thing is there second thank you second d'angelus uh calling the vote Pat hi councelor Ryan hi counselor ate hi and I am an I thank you all very much I will not thank you got this all right thanks y'all have a good night