##VIDEO ID:tNHnmkiPRLM## wait to sir and we're recording thank you it is October 17th at 6:32 and I'm going to call this meeting of go to order um I am infuriatingly trying to download something that my computer will not let me click but I'm going to check with each member to make sure they can hear and be heard uh Lyn grimer present thank you George Ryan present and I am present uh Anna as well so uh we are going to start with public comment as we typically do we do not currently have anyone in the audience uh so okay downloaded um so that that's that for public comment um sorry because my I don't know what is going on with my computer glitching but I don't have the order of operations in front of me and I want to go in order we talking about the legislative guide first or the do you want to do the um I'd like to do the town man goals first because Paul is here if that's okay um all right so I so just as a frame of reference I'm gonna actually I'm gonna ask people give me 30 seconds just to try to not do two things at once and just to get uh something to Athena really quickly so that she can help me share screen okay all right and the second one thank you are there any uh comments from members of the committee about how your day is going or just anything really while I Ming out okay I think that's everything no no comments all right all righty Athena I just sent it I'm just sending you this email and then I'm going to send you one that I sent to Paul earlier that has some links referenced in it um um that I was going to ask to call up as well so that um if you're once you get it if you're able to share the goals one I didn't actually see how it downloaded from Google Docs into word so hopefully it doesn't look terrible I'll pull it up as soon as it comes through thank you all right so basically here's what thinking for today what I want to talk about is how to when we when we approach the goals this year so typically go brings a draft of the goals to the council and the council discusses them and it kind of gives a a jumping off point so that we're not starting this full discussion as a 13 member body um so what we've found and what the council has found in the past couple years is that the goals that we have written are not actionable they're kind of all over the Place some of them are really confusing as to what end we mean them to go in um and so it's it makes it really challenging not to speak for Paul but from the conversations as a council we've had it makes it challenging to one evaluate progress towards those goals and two makes it hard to prioritize because of the sheer volume of the the content so what I tried to do um to to start this conversation off was I want us to think about the goals this year unless the committee is opposed to this I'd like us to think about the goals sort of in the in three categories the first is the goal area this is what we've had in the past like climate action um community health and safety Etc and then the objective which is oh thanks did you get a different this is the second one I sent did the first one send bummer um did you want to work with the other one first yeah because it has a talk in it that I was um okay I'll put I'll put up thank you thank you um thank you okay but I mean this is basically what I said to Paul so um so the so the goal area is kind of that that broader picture area the second one second um sub bullet beneath that is the objective and this is sort of the broader movement we'd like to see such as increase housing availability in ammer so this broad picture and then within each of those we should think about action items which is what movement can we expect to see by December 31st 2025 it's not fair to Paul and it's not fair to the council to have goals that are all over the place in terms of their scale uh and expect all of them to get accomplished without giving any sense of prioritization to them so I'd like to today talk about the goal talk about first if those three kind of that that trickle down of those three areas makes sense to to you all and if that's something you'd like to bring forward and kind of pursue and we as we go through this process and two um are our current goal areas still comprehensive and where we want to go or do we need to look at those the climate action racial Equity all that big long list and uh and adapt those so I took the liberty of looking at a couple other communities um to see how other folks structure their goals and there were some that I found really helpful uh as a jumping off point so for example Medfield they have their broader their broader goals and I'm just going to read you this example one develop strategies to increase public participation and ensure that citizens have the opportunity to be actively engaged in planning and implementation of services so that's that would be that secondary objective right and then under that they have action items such as uh work with Town moderator and town clerk to develop a town meeting 101 session and conduct survey of existing board and committee members things that are much more actionable um I'm going to pause here and and I want to hear thoughts on those three areas as a framing for how we look at these goals is that something you like you don't like uh what would you change about it would you repeat them again yep hang on let me just close this door really quickly because the dog just got home one second so first up there thank you so first up is goal area um then objective which is kind of what's the direction within this goal we want to go and then action item which which is by December 2025 we will have seen this get accomplished so with oops I'm sorry no you're fine go ahead um so for the time being I would suggest that we keep the goal areas the broad goal areas only because they've been very consistent with the kinds of areas in which we've passed legislation or done things so we've done major things in those areas the one that has always struck me as kind of duplicative is community health and safety and then I'm um number six the uh social justice and in that they often the things often run together but for the time being I'm not clear oops I my batter is running low slowly hold on I gotta plug in uh for the time being I think we should work within the six goal broad policy goal areas okay George what do you think um when I sat down and just started thinking about what some of the goals would be for myself two topics came up that are actually not in the sixth priority goals but seem to uh fall into the management aspect infrastructure is one so maybe there's a way that could fall under policy but to me that was something that I had four items related what I call infrastructure and so that's not in this list here um and uh the other was Town gown um and again that is in the second set of management goals but it's not in the first set um so if we're only looking at the first six and that's considered to be policy um maybe I just need to be helped to see that that infrastructure and and town gown are not areas of policy there something else but um that's the only thought I had was that um those are areas that I'd like to suggest some possible goals we could use the existing document but they'd be in the second set not the first so I put those in here because we do complete an evaluation on them and we do set goals for the town manager within those areas um unless I'm completely misunderstanding right we've got number well I only see I don't see the whole sheet so maybe no yeah no no worries I did put them in here based on what we've done in the past for uh goal and objective in Prior evaluations so if you keep going down Administration there's a now this is the management Personnel right Etc so infrastructure management and um relationship with the uh excuse me with local and higher education institutions um sure that's there my question on the oh sorry I put my hand on um George anything else for the moment okay so my question on this was we've have major Capital Investments as a um policy goal and then it's also in the management goals uh under the INF infrastructure and I was questioning whether it should be in both um I don't know that that's necessarily a policy goal is it at this point where we are in these projects is that a policy is yeah is that a policy goal I'm sorry is is what a policy goal uh the capital projects right that we're moving forward on the capital projects is that more of a management should it just be in management which does talk about the objective is to maintain and manage the town's capital and public assets and it includes Capital Improvement program Capital inventory uh Etc I think so yeah some of these are still to to be determined um I mean the Jones Library I mean there's a whole host of things fire station DPW Jones Library um you can't manage something until there's actually something that's been you know actually in the works so um I take management to be basically working with something that's already existing and is in process along which is General management responsibilities which I think this document lays out pretty in great detail but uh some of these capital projects are still not actual capital projects they're still I mean maybe we'll know more in another month or two but at the moment we don't so yeah um I'm gonna go to Lynn and then I'd love to after Lynn goes I'd like to hear from Paul about if you don't mind Paul sharing kind of what's working for you in the current uh in the way that the current goals are and what's not working for you what could be improved and before we go to Lyn I'm going to make sure that counselor ete can hear us and we can hear you welcome yes thank you all right Lynn and then we'll go to Paul um I always think about our capital in kind of two different categories one is Major capital and other is just kind of ongoing Capital whether it's roads infrastructure uh sewer whatever I so that and and we've divided it that way by having jcpc deal with everything but the major except for you know some funds that have to be put into the funds for um you know buildings to get started but the um even though we we still have a big decision coming down the road on the library one way or another and we still haven't made any decision um to speak of on um fire our DPW and there are people in our town who would argue that we should be refreshing this list with some additional capital projects major capital projects okay um thank you Paul would you like to just reflect on all of the things goals related from your perspective yeah I appreciate that um so I think the goals are have two purposes one is three purposes one is for the council to reach agreement on what your priorities are that's an important piece of it because every counselor comes in with a whole bunch of different priorities and I think one of the things that's hard for the council is to discipline itself to say these are our top priorities not all the goal everybody has their goal goals but to prioritize the ones you m you care about the most as a group not as individuals so I think there's one of it is to as an exercise for the council to say these are our our major goals I think the second piece is for direction for Town staff to do the things that you want to see done um and I think the actual document that we have now is pretty accurate along those lines um uh it but it should CH it can change from year to year obviously as as we kick things off uh off the list um and I think the third is important one too is to communicate to the public where we're spending our time and what our priorities are so if um you know the if if we are saying as the council has been saying we really want a new fire station that's our goal and we're saying that out loud to the public and to the manager and saiding this is what we want to get done I think the challenge becomes there are so many and it's not like there aren't other goals it's just that it's helpful to know where what the priorities are because we have so many goals um because there are what 10 11 goals and then each one has six items right under it um and and it's because we want everybody wants to be heard and everybody wants their goal reflected in the document and I think that's just too much um and I think if you said we're we're going to pick three this year doesn't mean it doesn't have to be the same every year but it will be the three this year um it doesn't mean the other ones aren't priorities it's just like aren't goals it's just like where are you spending your time and you know I I go through this document and I say oh my God we really didn't do much on this right and then we like scramble and do something and it's just performative and it's to check the box and that's not really I would rather have the a document where every every department head has it they know exactly what their priorities are the top three things and I think you can't you get Beyond three people can't remember what they are um and again to say it's not comprehensive it's a list of priorities I think that's that would what I would hope them the um this goal document would achieve because I think that it was important for the council to reach agreement I think it's important for the council to communicate to that to the manager what those goals are and the manager then you know moves that down into all the department heads and their work and that the public can easily say ah I see what goals you've you've selected they make sense to me and they'll say well what about this what about that you know but it'll say yeah that's important but these are the things that we've prioritized this year and that's how we're building our budget and those are and it's setting that that overall picture that's the most important piece because that's how the budget the finances get aligned yeah um Paul when you say three do you mean three if we think about the those existing categories three goal areas three objectives three action items like per what do you mean three object three objectives objetives okay thank you I mean I think we've we we there's about five or six for every oh yeah there's a lot goal area now and yeah I want to take a second Athena in the email sorry I know this is so confusing in the email that I forwarded you that I had sent Paul there's a link to conquer's goals and I wanted to share those because I thought that was the strongest example and I'd love for the committee to just take a look if that's okay um I was just trying to do some some research if everyone remembers the homework I gave you ages and ages ago I'm not circling back to see if you did it but um this was one of the one of the towns on our list so I wanted us to look at this and I'd love to get reactions to it not the specifics of what they're putting in this but how they're structuring this and how they're approaching it um so they have their category and then for each of them they have a couple like Paul said that this first one has three uh object objectives excuse me and then they have action items and I think it's important to note right there are other things that happen Beyond this but um I personally looked at this as very much not a town manager and was like okay this makes sense to me I understand the direction they're going and what their expectations are um so I I liked this one I'm not wetted to it but I I liked this model as we think about it um getting it a little bit more reasonable and I'd love to I know we're not I'm not asking us to pour through it but you can kind of get an idea of how they've structured it and I apologize for not sending this in advance this was something I realized that I it would be helpful if we looked at some examples um and I hadn't pulled this together until this morning but I'd love to hear thoughts on this and if it's resonating for folks or if you'd like to you don't you hate it um not necessarily coming in with an agenda other than I want us to get a better process Lynn and then George Len um actually George go ahead it doesn't seem all that different than what we have um you have a set of categories as Lynn pointed out and I tend to agree um the broad categories seem to reflect the last four or five at least maybe all the years that the council's been in existence these seem to be the areas the council has in general been agreement about the broad categories that we right and then within those um we're being asked to specify some specific goals and then some specific action items so the challenge for us is is to to sort of translate I think the structure is pretty much what we have in front of us already it's just a challenge of getting it to be as precise and as concrete as we can and as helpful as possible to to Paul and to the staff um Paul's telling us that that as it currently exists he finds it not all that helpful and that it could be improved from the perspective of um making their job easier or more more successful so um my thought is this this seems kind of along the lines of what we're going anyway Lynn I have nothing else to add it's exactly where I was coming from okay um I disagree in some senses and agree in others I think that this is a similar concept to what we have but when you look at our reality we're all over the place so some of our are if you look at the goals um from last year we've got under each one first off there's somewhere between five and eight on average uh items listed per uh area and then some of those are bigger picture and some of those are action items and for me that's where this that's where ours is is falling apart is because some of the things we list are absolutely clear consistent action items and some of them like if you look at their objective statements are broader like support promote engage economic social etc etc so for me that's where I think we need to parse ours out better into what is a tangible and what is more of an idea of like the movement the Are The Movement we want to make versus the things we want to see happen I I think that ours the thing one of the things I don't like about ours is how it goes some things are really small and specific some things are massive right use a racial Equity lens that's not an a ible actionable thing as much as it's an objective and the action would be what does that actually look like what do you do to do that um so that's where I that's where I see this as different and where I'd like us to get to uh and the number um you know I think that there's a number of action items on here but they are specific action items they're not big big big broad picture uh lists of things to do Lynn in general I would agree uh what I really like is is the last column where we're very clear about things that are being carried forward it's a statement of understanding that no none of these goals are short-term if they are they're probably not even goals um but you know for instance we achieved one of our goals this year our sub goals this year when we uh finally did the energy um partnership thing and but that's been on that goal list for three years right and so it's a way of keeping track uh and and we might even add a little more detail um like it was carried over from fy22 to FY 25 or something like that um the I definitely feel we need to uh cut down on the number of sub goals and the the interesting thing I mean I I kind of like their categories um and maybe that is a way to resolve some of the fact that we seem to have 13 I guess it is Broad goals and maybe some of them become more sub within a bigger broad category so um I think this has some serious Merit but it does have some similarity I don't think it would be a stretch to take what we've done already and move towards something like this I think that was my goal I was not trying to deeply stretch anyone um I didn't want to scare people uh but I I agree Lynn with what you're saying adding in that last column George um just picking up on a point Lynn just made about a way of keeping track of council priorities over time while the document is year toe um because I like Paul setting out the three kind of broad objectives that the exercise here is meant to force force the council to find some common ground in terms of its top priorities and then to provide direction to town staff and what needs to be done terms of time and and and energy and also I thought Paul made an excellent point it's also to give the public an idea of what we're up to and I certainly used it that way and I often send people to it and I say you want to know what the council thinks is important here's this document read it it gets revised every year um I'm wondering if a fourth item is also provides a kind of historical uh role record both for the public but also for the council um and now that can begin to get you know lots and lots of things pretty soon it becomes enormous but anyway it has I think also kind of a historical role and some of these things do take a couple of years and if you take something out um does that mean well then it no longer matters um um so there's that problem too um and again just for clarification sake I think it was maybe I wasn't paying attention but when Paul says three top priorities he was talking if you're looking at this document you're showing us he was talking about the third column he wasn't I mean that's a question and maybe Paul said no no I mean the the first column in other words three categories um that you want to choose for this coming year whether that be climate action social justice or no he would say no keep the categories you have but within those categories um keep the number of particular items to three per category if you expect us to be have any chance of accomplishing what you have in mind so Paul was it is it the lad or were you thinking more you'd like just three specific three broad areas where that you want we want you to be working on um you know I I think that if we have say 12 or 13 major goals right and under each one of those goals Max you know total that's still 39 much yeah TKS but I think that's a lot better than 60 you know all right okay and I think and some of the some of these goals I think you know just looking through this like maintain essential Municipal Services I mean check yeah exactly right right balance balance the budget yeah I mean I know you sometimes it feels like you should say that because but I think we should look at this not as a I mean it's a performance review of the manager but it's also where do you want want to prioritize time that's why I keep I don't think it it's a comprehensive goals but it's like where do you want to spend your time and the council does this already by prioritizing your own meeting time okay part of me is wondering if to that point I guess I I am not saying we're going to change this at all but for me personally I wish we would get to a point where the council would set priorities and then set Town manager goals because the inter of them for me I I don't love it uh I think that it's it makes it harder to one have this be a town manager evaluation and town manager goals and two it feels like we're asking you to do I don't know I I just it doesn't I don't I just don't like it um I am not proposing we change that and I agree with you that this is currently how the council establishes its priorities or names its priorities I just wish we had a different way of doing it um so I I guess for to that point I do think it's important for us to keep in areas like running the town right Municipal Services all of that but I'm wondering if people think it would be comfortable and some years to not necessarily have any action items under a given objective if it's like this is a broad thing but we don't have anything specific we are asking you for in this year other than movement you decide towards this end um if that makes sense like if we talk about the municipal Services one if there's nothing specific that we the council are expecting Paul to do other than continue keep on keeping on is it enough to keep it as an objective and say this is the objective being kind of the direction without any specific action steps I because for me there are there's Merit to that but I'm not sold on it Lynn I I think one of the things that has to happen with the goals is a recognition of the comprehensive nature of town government and the town manager's job yeah and so even if we don't have a specific priority under you know good government or or government service or something like that for that year um we still don't want to lose sight of the fact that that's part of the job yeah I agree and that's that's what I was kind of trying to get at at saying like keeping it in as an objective but not necessarily assigning any action items to it George yeah and I think that that makes sense you could we could structure it in such a way that under objectives would have much of what we might call boiler plate that doesn't change from year to year um and in some categories that might be all that would be there and uh again Paul would look at it and he'd read it over and go well that's that's what's expected of any competent time manager fine but if there's a specific item that would somehow be relevant to that category we could then enter it and that would get his attention and um he he he would weigh in I think during the process and say yay or nay or just keep silent but at least he'd say okay that's a specific item that they want to me to work on over this coming year in this category that normally doesn't have those sorts of things but this year it does so I don't see any problem with that I like keeping it um this broad weather plate it's been worked on over a number of years I think it does provide I think in many ways a very to my you know limited knowledge a pretty good overview what a competent Town manager is expected to do um but obviously what Paul's looking for he knows that he's trying to find out what specifically we want him to do in a given year so we're trying to balance those two things and if we could find this might be a way to do it so objective fine and then under particular category we might not have any specifics for that category thank you Paul oh I think uh well was was once looking at these three communities that you shared Anna it's just interesting how similar our towns Town's government is sort of similar and our goals tend to be very similar so it's it's kind of reassuring that we're all sort of dealing deal with it I'm wondering if there it's actually a two-part thing that maybe you we have the goals and then then you sort of have the you know the mcast for the town manager almost like these are the things have you showed competence and these you know is is the budget balanced is the our financial you know audit occurred like this sort of almost like it's not a goal it's just a checkbox type thing right and it's and that's that's something that would be from year to year I think what I'm really I'm just curious if if Athena has I mean she's the most recent higher education most most current thinking I'm not sure what the most current thinking is for performance reviews if you have thoughts on that Athena um I I think that the the measurable part of this is really important because um go was tasked this past year with reimagining the town manager evaluation process which is carried over from the select board's process and is I think everyone's agreed that it's really cumbersome and so I think having a set of goals that are measurable so that the council can make um datadriven decisions about its priorities um Paul used the word like how much time we spend on things but I think of that as resources too because it's not just his time but it's everybody's you know all of his staff's time and that comes um it is our time is a resource and there are other re resources that we use to accomplish those goals so um when I think about this I'm I'm trying to imagine how the current set of goals would fit into this spreadsheet and then um I think the important part of this conversation is to help guide the council's conversation on Monday and so it would be useful in my mind to kind of fit the current set of goals into a template like this and then allow the the council to have a conversation about whether or not the things that you've put in there are still true and if there are things that the council's ready to call out of the goals or or Define a little bit better because when you look at some of these examples they're pretty specific in the the action item and I think there might be some areas in the current Council goals that are it would be hard to tease out a specific action item so I think that's part of the conversation if the council still feels strongly that there's something in there that needs to be defined as specific goal then that should be identified um but when we were I think Paul and I were both at the mass Municipal Managers Association meeting this couple months ago and um a lot of the managers said oh yeah I have like three or five goals and um I agree with Paul that it it is difficult to develop a strategic plan that's moving in so many directions at once and that's something that I've been thinking a lot about since I graduated because it is really valuable to the council and the public to know what direction we're moving in and to be able to plan ahead for that and with so many directions and so many priorities it's it's really difficult to you know you you spread yourself in so many directions that you don't get very far in anyone thank you so so in terms of this conversation I think that it would be useful to if the committee feels that this is the the right format to use then start to think about how to facilitate that Council conversation on Monday thank you um you read my mind a little because my little note that I had jotted down was I'll take the current set of goals and try to fit them into this sheet um so I I wish we had another go meeting before the council meeting on Monday um and I you know I know Lynn and I talked and I uh about what we were going to talk to the council about and I was saying how I wish we had two go meetings before the council meeting um but if the committee is comfortable I want to make sure that we have Clarity on what the three goal area objective and action items are if the committee is comfortable I'm happy to look at the current set and try and take a stab at it it will the committee won't have a chance to see it though before the council meeting so what I was planning to bring to the council was kind of what I presented to you all today but I'll add that extra column and say that that's what go is going to do um is take the last year set of goals and break it out into what's the goal area which we already know that which are objectives meaning broad directions and which are action items uh and and kind of just give an update and then I can ask counselors to go through on their own and send us feedback on which areas they would want to remove move from last year's goals or if they have additions and then I can go through and try to sort them in and we as go will have to go kind of do the messy part of once we have all that feedback looking through and seeing does every action item align with a major area how many objectives are we looking at that we then need to call and how might we talk to the council about what are the if we're if we're saying three pick your pick your favorites right like which three so I think that would be the next that's the process in my brain that makes sense because I'm not super comfortable doing that work on behalf of go without go getting to see it um so what are we athen's going to tell me I can't do that anyway so it's fine okay no I was gonna tell you the opposite thing that that as part of the go report um it's it says in the rules that you should ask committee members for their feedback on the report before you send it into the council and G it's tough because GI has such a tight turnaround time but if you can draft something and get feedback um you know tomorrow or Saturday and then we'll have something to put in the packet so you will you do have an opportunity to get feedback from the committee and then it will be posted in the packet you just can't go back and forth and back and forth with people okay so if I hypothetically ask you all as go members to look at the goals from last year and highlight objectives highlight in a different color action items and then call which ones you want to call does that is that what that's not really what I'm asking what am I asking help me here Athena so um if I understand what you were suggesting right is that you were going to put the current goals into this new format correct yeah that was what I'm asking if it's okay for me to do that without so you you can do that and then include it in your go report and send those two documents or one document as combined um to the members for any feedback about how you've done that but when it comes time to talk about what may or may not end up in the 2025 goals um I think I would advise you to save that for the council conversation because that's not a decision that this committee is going to make on its own okay great thank you so just to confirm what I'm going to do is take the current set of goals I will block some time off to do this tomorrow I'll take the current set of goals and work them into the sheet that I showed with an additional column that says status uh and I will write my go report correctly uh and on time and not really on time but I um and I will send it to the committee tomorrow asking for feedback do folks have time tomorrow and Saturday morning to get me any feedback by Saturday midday I know that's tight but I know I don't have time Sunday so I'm gonna have to do it Saturday afternoon okay um and then I will incorporate any feedback and get that to the packet on Sunday great okay George I'm not on board yet um sorry well that doesn't mean NE necessarily anything but um what I'm envisioning is a document along the lines of what you showed us earlier from wherever it was conqur or whatever Town it was um in which the First Column lists say climate action Y then the next column we take the statement in the current goals existing goals for the objective which says to continue to make progress on the council's climate action goals and to prepare the town to be resilient in the face of climate change the third column would be specific action items related to that particular category and there I would think you would leave it blank or would you put in what you think would be the appropriate I mean what what actually would you do so okay so this is where I think the teasing apart is happening right because what I would do George is yes column one is the goal areas per CL action right then the objective right you're not gonna write the objective you're just gonna copy it from the existing absolutely but then here's where it's hard is because those numbers under after that objective where it's the list some of those are action items but others aren't right so use a climate lens when making budgetting construction repair hiring I agree with you 100% that could actually go into the objective you could add and we could do that if we had more time and we could we could worksmith it but we don't so do you want to I that's what I'm suggesting is if I take a first go at it and send that as part of the report if you all disagree um I can write committee or or I can add another column that's like committee's not sure if this is an obor of an action item um because I'm not trying to seek consensus over email but I think that that was what I was going to do is take my it's it's really those number the items that are numbered those are what some of them feel like objectives some of them feel like action items and so sorry go ahead well you you could just say and and now either at the meeting and this is Lyn could weigh in here we will start talking as a a committee or Council about some specifics related to that particular item or you could just solicit their input and then when we meet again as go we will do the Dirty Work of of sorting out the the items that don't belong there at all and either belong under objectives or just should be thrown in a can and then looking through what specific action items we get from our colleagues and from ourselves and then put that into a document which would go back to the council for them to look at um but I'm wondering if maybe my suggestion is you just leave that third column blank and say to your colleagues either let's talk start talking about it now or um send us your thoughts on what specific action items you would like to see under climate action given this stated objective right like pick which ones you want to carry well yeah tell us what you think I mean write to us um or we could talk start talking about it in the council meeting but that's a matter of the agenda and how much time we have um with 13 people but still um I would be very uncomfortable with you or anyone myself I don't care who it is um putting in specific objectives under that item um as if somehow the committee agrees to that or doesn't um and getting our input on Saturday afternoon or evening for a document that goes into the packet you know in the next 24 hours is just not going to work um it's you know we're just not gonna we're not going to agree on all this anyway so um my suggestion is to leave it blank I'd like to hear what the rest of the committee thinks and what what uh you know uh do they really want some specifics in that column if they do those specifics are going to be provided by Anna and um you know I love you dearly but that that's just your thoughts and it's not my thoughts or Lynn's thoughts or rea's thoughts it's just your thoughts and we're not going to be able to come up with our committee thoughts in the next uh hour and certainly not by email over the next 24 48 Hours yeah I hear you George and I want to be very clear I am not putting in any of my own thoughts I am copying what was in last year's go I would be copy yeah I know I know not yeah what if you left it blank would that that yeah so one option is you set it up with the 13 and the initial statement that goes with each of the 13 which the lead in and then choose one that the council discusses at the meeting on Monday night and we go we use that as an example of what we want counselors to come back to us with and I in my mind one of the easier ones believe it or not to do is capital major capital projects so major capital projects the objective reads to make progress on major capital building Investments consistent with Council votes that's all it says which is what hna would write and that's all it would say and then and then you'd put what ly you'd put we have and get called on but this is the last time I'm allowing this go ahead okay and then I would just start out I I don't even want to get specific I just say School library DPW fire station don't even get specific because they're all ongoing that school goal isn't done until that school op okay so here's what I'm going to take from this conversation forward to the council um I am there are 13 people on the council it is it gets unwieldy in two seconds I am not comfortable bringing forward one of these goals to say let's just discuss it openly uh because I don't think that it's going to lead anywhere productive for this committee what I think what I would like to do and I'm I'm one voice so I will do what the committee decides they want me to do but I would rather bring forward this format and process and explain what go will be doing which is organizing last year's goals into objectives and action items at our next meeting and say that if folks have specific comments on items that were in last year's goals and whether they would like them to make sure they are in there as an action item or in there as an objective that they need to send that feedback to me but I don't think that we are at a point where Council input is going to be helpful because it's so unwieldy and we're not able ble to necessarily clearly articulate that Vision at this point I think we need to have something that's organized to show them with a samp with some samples of of what it's going to look like so that's that's what I'd like to do is show them like the blank kind of definitions of it and where it's going to go and explain what go is going to do give them the ability to send feedback to us as we engage in that process Paul so if a counselor says it sounds like what you want to do is just take our current goals and put them into a grid format as opposed to a narrative form is that what you're is that what you're proposing I think that question could come up on Monday fair question um how I would respond if we're if we're we're playing as if we're there right now so the difference between the narrative form we have and the grid form that I'm proposing isn't actually just about formatting it's about clarifying what's direction and what's an action item and that's where we get lost and that's where we need to be articulating and it gives a frame of reference for what is actually expected to get done in a year versus what is an ongoing expectation so that's what we're differentiating here we someone whose brain works differently than mine could do that in a narrative format I need to block it um so that's that's where I'm choosing to pitch to the committee but but um that's the difference is that we are more clearly articulating what is a objective meaning a Direction versus what is an action item George and we're cutting down the number sorry George right so wouldn't that be more wieldly in a committee of five in its next meeting going through this document and sorting out what's an objective from what's an action item and um also of course as you said you'd be describing what you'd be doing is is maybe showing them sort of this grid as a sort of basic model and then saying this is what G is going to do in its next meeting and we would welcome any suggestions you have in terms of uh specific action items or if you want to add categories or you know but here's the basic structure if you want to change something uh but you don't want to get into that discussion on Monday night um and I would tend to agree with you on that um I would think that the five us um at the next meeting could make some pretty good Headway in in in drafting a document and especially if we get input from our colleagues but our task would be to sort of do what you just described um and then see what our colleagues think and first of all see what we think if we all agree if we five of us can agree then that's a good sign if we don't then we have some more work to do but um again I guess I'm just so again I'm just asking what you imagine if you have this grid what you're gonna are you just going to copy maybe that what's already in this document and put that under the the third column of of of action items even though many of them are not really action items are you going to leave it blank or you going to put in some suggestions um I'm just curious what you're thinking of on that right now George I think I'm going to leave even the objectives blank because we have objectives written but because some of the goals are themselves not actionable and are more of objectives I don't necessarily even want to get into that column right like I I think that if we had I mean if this were written in narrative form as the objective is there as the big picture and then there were only action items we wouldn't necessarily be having this conversation in the same way but I I I worry I don't necessarily want to bring to the council an impression that we only are going to have one objective per goal area because that's not true uh when we look at what has been written in the past I agree with you this committee could make good Headway into looking at what we had last year and saying which of these are actually actionable and which of these are broader directions and objectives so I think it's really I can give an example of each area that is not something the committee is moving on just to kind of articulate the difference between an action item and an objective I think that might be helpful but I mean it'd be fictitious it wouldn't be something that all right but it would give them something right and but then leave it at that and then Falls to them to weigh in if they choose or not to and then our job the next meeting May I make a suggestion and then I'll I'll shut up um I thought Paul's statement of the three sort of primary goals of this document with perhaps adding Lynn's thought about the idea of a way of keeping track of council commitments over time would you consider putting that at the start just to help Focus everybody on why we do this because the the the general objective statement in the existing document is is really well it's I don't think it's very helpful let's I'll be polite um if we put something like what Paul had stated and what Lynn had had those four kind of ideas at the very top and say look this is why we do this or this is what Go thinks this is why we do this and um and then you just give them the the grid and you you introduce what we're planning to do at the next meeting and ask for their input I guess it's it's a thought for everybody think that would be useful because I think the current statement the general objective statement that in the existing document is is is just not helpful but this would be helpful why do we do this you know try right I think this is speaks for itself but that's just a suggestion and we I want to just make sure I agree completely so I just want to make sure I'm I captured what you're saying so at the start or in the memo um that again I will write and submit correctly and on time uh I'm going to include the the discussion of basically the the gist of this discussion right we're saying that we have the goal areas that have been defined in the past uh after discussion with the town manager in order to make something that's reasonable we decided to limit it to three objectives per goal area I part of me wants to go further and limit the number of action items I don't necessarily think we can do that until we see what action items there are because some of them are going to be bigger than others um and then I'm going to say and we've included the addition of a column to uh titled status that will help us to track goals over time what's been completed what's carried over from year to year um Etc is that what you were saying to make sure I include at the that sounds fine I guess what I was suggesting was that you preface this all by a statement of why we actually go through this process every year as painful as it is and because it isn't stated I think very clearly in the existing document and I thought it was stated fairly clearly this evening uh with four at least three maybe four specific points it it you know it might be worthwhile to lead with that also it could simply be brought up by by members of the of the council during discussion I could say you know just to remind everybody this is why we do this um just a thought I just thought I found it very helpful this evening to remind myself you why we go through this sometimes painful process um I'm not coming up with a four right now can you help me so we have help set Council priori under to reach yeah to reach the council help the council reach agreement on its top priorities provide Direction uh for the town manager to town staff on what needs to be done um to give the public an idea of what matters most to the council uh where the where we see the council going the town going and finally it helps keep track uh over time of council priorities as a kind of historical component as well yeah is what I heard and what I got from this evening Rec anyway just a thought just a thought no I think that's great um George would you like I will I'll write this out in the report but would you like to speak to that I think you articulated it really well and mean the council meeting sure yeah sick of hearing from me um so if you want I have to get I have to get footnoted with with Lynn and Paul but yeah um if you want to start with the why we do it and then I can go through what we're gonna approach Oh you mean in a formal presentation kind of format sure I'll just say George is gonna start us off if that's okay okay I mean I would just yeah I'd be happy to do that sure um and if you don't want to I don't mind no okay all right so I think this has really been helpful because now I actually like I have some s question I'm going to draft a memo I will include a new grid I will send it to I'm still going to send this to the committee tomorrow um to get feedback on um please send me your feedback by Saturday it's not I'm not asking for major substantive I just want to make sure I've captured in my I only have two post posts so uh I mean I have other ones on the side but just for the memo I just have two Post-its um to make sure I've captured everything and um then I'll get that to Athena sound good excellent work everybody thank you um we are going to move now to the uh legislative process guide and Athena I sent you a word doc with that as well so does anybody need a break or are we okay to keep going you want me to stay for this piece or oh Paul I mean it's gonna be thrilling but no you are free to go thank you so much I that was not sarcastic thrilling excuse me all right um so just to reorient us briefly here what we discussed at our last meeting because I think George was away um no all right she been a long day it's a long day it's okay I know no all right so you and me both um what the council discussed and I I say this because I think it's a really important context for our conversation today as we look at this guide and this is speaking from my own experience looking through it the council discussed what we were intending for this guide right like what we thought the purpose of this guide was and sorry I just took a huge drink of Seltzer and the like the Seltzer is rejecting me um and so what we talked about was the object our objective is to create a document that's used as a reference point for counselors in the future who want to introduce something to the council um that is the frame that we're using when we talk today that does not mean that this will not have other uses in the future it just means we're focusing on one thing at a time um I say that because I pitch cutting a lot of this and uh I wanted to contextualize that that doesn't mean getting rid of this forever we still have the document um and can refer back but what go all agreed to at our last meeting is that we were focusing on how do we create a resource that's available in SharePoint it's not formally adopted as a rule it's not requ ired it is there as a reference point for people to use as they so choose uh that's my recollection to any other go members re recall something different okay um all right so what I want to do here Lynn and I both uh I combined our comments and um want to talk through them Lynn can you explain your first comment here yes um the very first comment is basically as we have done with rules of procedure this should be seen as a living document and so when we adopt it we should add a date to it and then every time it's amended we add a date to it okay um that's fair I think that we should at this point I do think we need to remove Shin's name and that is not to diminish any of the work that she did on this which was an a massive amount and I want to appre appreciate her for doing that but this isn't a measure that's being approved so we don't need to have a sponsor I think there could be a nice footnote that says it was for something I agree um so I I'm sorry I'm rereading my comments here all right um let's leave Lynn's comment in for now at the top there and then Lynn you said you were fine with this section me the overview I believe recognizing that it be a standalone document even though it refers to other documents um so for me I felt like the first sentence in this my comment um is highlighting just the first sentence here it felt out of place in the objective it felt like some I I was confu I had to read this a couple times right um objective to me is like what is why does this exist um which then gets a little a little bit repetitive with the purpose statement down below so I know that the impetus behind this was uh was a feeling that counselors needed to know that one specific part and then it got much bigger uh about items needing to be in their uh introduced in writing Etc but I don't think that that's a helpful I just don't think it's helpful in the purpose here because there are other requirements too this is what I meant yeah Lyn I just I think we could have a very brief sentence that says you know something about our rules of procedure have speak to this this guide this legislative process guide is for this purpose and just so it I something that ties it to our rules of procedure one sentence short yeah I think that's what I that's why I thought I thought the first sentence should be deleted and that it should just say this legislative process guide is intended to provide guidance that can supplement and clarify existing requirements in the ammer it should say home Rule Charter and rules of Town Council rules of proced yeah I I can live with that and it should say the process guide I don't think you should say this I'm not the grimian georgees well we'll send it out for another round of feedback um I am keeping us we technically go till 8:30 is that right yes so I'm going to keep us we have to be done with this today by 8 because we do have a proclamation to do as well so I'm just establishing that up front as an expectation um okay so I didn't have any other issues with this paragraph I don't think oh except for yeah so the term bylaws and measures was used and oh I'm sorry Lynn you your hand up I apolog just oh I'm sorry I I need to take Athena this was a question for you on Terminal ology is that phrase the most accurate and does that encapsulate what this might be useful for I really I was struggling with it throughout the document and I couldn't quite pinpoint why the charter uses the word measures and it's been a slippery word to figure out what's a measure because it's not defined in the charter um but it's from our experience my experience on the council it's you know final action on a thing that might not be a bylaw so you might be adopting a policy or something else that's like a final action it's not just a referral or something it's the you know we call them Council orders when it's um a financial thing but it's a thing the council does the final action okay thank you George so this is called a legislative process guide which in my understanding would be a guide for legislation is there any other kind of legislation and this is just a question that we do other than bylaw yes so passing a measure is legislation for sure yeah because the legislature passes the budget and does other stuff like that so the council's this is a guide for any kind of action that involves us taking a vote no um yeah it's for um I don't know how we survive for five years but anyway I guess it's all right um so uh I'm H I'm glad about the question because I have the same question measures versus bylaws um and so this is designed to assist um various groups not just counselors but um sponsors and the public at large in our legislative process okay George no well originally yes but what we as go decided last week was that what we were going to approach first we were those are kind of there's so much there that might be different in Nuance that we were going to focus our first conversation on this about what do counselors need to know so when it says sponsors it means Council sponsors um and we could clarify that Shin wrote this and and we'll get to the point where there's three different purposes outlined in this document um because one part is directed to towards Council sponsors one is directed towards right so but but I think that we're focusing on Council okay that's what we that's what we discussed at the last meeting if folks want to revisit that conversation my I didn't pick up on this until George said it out loud and now it's raising little Flags in my head this isn't actually talking about the legisl process um of something moving through Council and so I I do think that it's not talking about you know it will it might get referred to committee it might like it's not getting into the the confusion there um and so I kind of am am thinking I don't have a different title yet or I don't know that I'm sold on changing it but I do wonder I just want it's really about proposing it's about the process of bringing something forward um in this case to the councel for a counselor how would you bring a measure or bylaw forward it's sort of like a how-to manual on how to do that it's sort of that it's more of how to what to take into account when you're proposing something is my reading of it okay all right E I didn't really realize the sheer volume of comments that I put in this until you just scrolled through it little attack if I if you don't mind me jumping in I don't have a raised hand can I speak um George I can't tell how sarcastic you are about what other actions the council takes but there are plenty of things that people propose to the council that aren't bylaws so I'm not I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic about not knowing what that is but you know say a counselor wants the the council to create a new committee or something you figure out I've tried to figure out what this thing is for and why it's in front of us and why we're SP time on it but I wasn't at the last meeting so that's part of that's my fault but well it might make you feel better that Pat came into the last meeting with a very similar attitude and left feeling like this was very worthwhile so it might be while to watch the recording she's not here so yeah okay I'll have to take your word for that but but um but I agree that it would be helpful to have some kind of a flowchart type process it it is a little bit difficult to map out something if you've seen the the CRC flowchart for um adopting adopting zoning bylaw changes it goes in all kinds of directions and this could be even more squirly because there are lots of potential people and things that might um might see something before it comes back to the council for final action but I agree that like a a a more you know a clearer map of how things move through the council would kind of enhance this okay I agree this to me feels similar to anyway I'm not gonna uh councelor I think what I'm hearing from everyone is that there's a need for some way to streamline the process so at least have um something we can turn to to see how we could streamline the the process um I don't think it's going to solve everything related to the process with the council and committees but we do need to start from somewhere or at least acknowledge that we can begin starting from some thank you I think that the other if we if we want to start with as as this proposal mentions talk about what the problem is that you're trying to solve I think that one of the things that came up in the last Council term was that proposals were coming forward I'm saying proposals meaning bylaws or measures um with varying degrees of background coming with them right so some of them were coming forward with a ton of research some were coming forward as an idea thinking the research would come later some were coming forward with Community um voice behind it some were not and then the question was do we even need this so I I think that this was also an attempt I'm not I don't want to speak for Shon but my understanding and reading through this was one of the other things this was trying to do was support people and having some consistency and knowing what they needed to get together to bring something to the council and give it a good chance of of moving forward um so it talks a lot about you know what addressing what the problem is you're trying to solve estimating how much times uh how what staff need you'll have to to move it forward it identifying why it's a priority it's really a guy it's it's a the way I read it or the way that I would use this is in writing memos to accompany something that I'm pitching to the council Council Ryan so the problem that this is meant to solve is that there's been a host of proposals lately that have just wasted everybody's time and could have been done in a much more streamlined and effective Manner and this guide when it finally gets created will solve that problem or at least go a long way to solving it is that what is behind this that that's the problem that this is supposed to address I don't know that I'd frame it exactly the way you framed it I think what this is trying to address is a lack of consistency when proposals are brought forward to the council is that a problem or just just it's just a fact I mean if people AR if people AR if people aren't consistent are they going to be we're going to wrap them on the knuckles or we're going to put them in in the stocks or what um they're going to do what they're going to do I mean this is a noble idea but um given all the things that go has to do um I guess I'm trying to understand why uh we want to spend our time on this I would much rather spend my time trying to work through the town manager evaluation process for instance or looking at other things that Jo does um unless I could be convinced that there's a real problem that's out there that this is going to help us resolve two things really quickly before I turn to Athena and counselor ete first is that it was a very intentional conversation that J had about not making this part of our rules because we didn't want it to be a requirement so we don't want the council to use this as a benchmark in any sort of punitive way towards proposals in the future saying you know you didn't come forward with all of the things on this checklist so therefore we're not even going to consider it it's something that uh that councelor b Mill in the past thought would be helpful in in bringing things to the council secondly I think that we can have a lot of time spent on discussion uh about whether we want to discuss this at all or we can spend some time on moving through and and making some sort of list of recommendations or we can just vote if you'd like to to say we don't want to to touch this at all this was a carryover item that was um that was tasked to go to kind of deal with so we could deal with it by saying we don't want this we don't want to talk about it anymore and members of gall could put that on the table I do think that there is Merit in this as a reference point but I want to one of the convers one of the key conversations we had was that we don't want this to be viewed as a requirement for the reasons that said um we don't want someone to come forward and say uh here's my proposal and have them get completely shut down because they didn't check all the boxes on this list um I don't know if that gives more context to what you were talking about well yeah yeah do you have anything else or should I go to Athena okay Athena go ahead one of the things we talked about um at the last go meeting was the usefulness in this in making the council conversations about new proposals a little bit less personal because in the past the council has to talked about the need for that initial referral to a committee to be a more thoughtful sounds critical of the council's process in the past um to be more thoughtful about the referral as the decision point where the council is saying as a group this is a thing that we want the town to spend resources on and it's felt really uncomfortable in the past for counselors to raise the question of is this what we want to spend our time doing which is ironic now because you're asking that question I'm asking that question but in front of 13 people some of which are proposing a new initiative it feels it in the past counselors have said that it's it feels very uncomfortable for them for other counselors to question whether this is something that everybody wants to spend the town's time on and resources on um and so some of the questions that are in the guide that Shon laid out are like what what are the available resources and how much time and staff time and resources would it take to move this forward and so it's sort of a means of allowing that conversation to happen or allowing counselors to consider those questions without directing it at a person like I don't like your idea but it's you know it more holistic conversation about you know we we just decided these are the things that we want the count the town manager to spend his time on does this fall anywhere within our policy goals does it is it accomplishable is it something that DPW has staff has time to take up right now you know all those kinds of questions that are less about the individual and more about a a broader evaluation of how we use our resources because in the past it had been almost like a performative refer refer refer without that kind of thoughtful is this something that we want to take our valuable resources to move forward this guide is not going to be a substitute for that I'm afraid so no and I agree that and yeah those conversations will remain difficult but if there's something that councilors can hold on their hand and go this can help me consider way all the different things then the committee and the council in the past agreed that that was valuable of course making a motion to table something indefinitely is always an option for you and um that could be the committee's recommendation so I'm getting the sense but just I may be completely wrong that um majority of the members of this committee believe that spending at least this meeting and maybe one or two other meetings on this is worth it and um I will abide by that but otherwise I'd be more than happy to make a motion to table this indefinitely because I don't believe it's going to have any impact whatsoever but that's my personal opinion um and I obviously had nothing to do with this getting carried over because I wasn't on the council at the time and I wasn't present unfortunately at the last go meeting to make this point um but if the sense is that the majority of us want to go ahead I'm going to stop speaking about this and we will move on but um if someone would like to say you know I kind of like councel Ryan's idea then I will be willing to make a motion may I may I offer a litmas test sure did Anna did you and Lynn use this guide in any way shape or form when you were writing your memo that's in the packet right now do you think I used this guide when I wrote my memo that went in the packet I'm not gonna answer that question I'm asking you um wa which memo which memo any memo the school safety the school safety zones I will say here's the thing no I did not however this is not the first memo I've ever written um and I don't George to be honest I don't know what the answer to your litmus test question is um I I truly don't know that there is consensus or what the consensus is um I did not use this in writing the memo that is in the packet um for Monday that you all are going to be thrilled to it's it's the best memo ever if I do say so myself despite not using this list however um that said I'm in my second term and have written memos before and kind of have a general idea would my memo have been stronger had I consulted this list probably um did I still get a memo into the packet that seems somewhat complete yeah uh my bar is pretty low at this point guys but I don't know I I George I think that's I'm not the intended Audi I'm not the intended audience necessarily for this document it's a reference I think its best use in my mind is as a reference tool for folks who might be doing this for one of the first times um or as a reference tool for anybody but I I think it's its strongest uses as a reference tool as people are thinking about what do I even write to say to the council about why I want this to have happen to to happen councelor but that was a very good questiona counselor I think the lus tests um George would be you making the motion and seeing if it stands um I'll make the case for the memo I think under purpose you're given four different purposes I think you could actually collapse those to three that is by joining purpose three and four together and if you did I think I find this very helpful with the purpose that deals with Community engagement one of the things that I've seen on the other committee I'm on which is CRC is the challenge in getting people engaged on some of the issues that come before a committee and we have here a document that at least may not show us how to get the public engaged but gives us an opportunity to ask ask the questions we need to ask while we're dealing with any particular topic and then we can see if the public is that engaged um now would we survive without the memo yes we would but the result would be that we would have conversations within committees where those who already know the process show up those who don't know are not and are not comfortable don't this might provide a different opportunity to bring other voices in and for that reason alone frankly for me that's enough to give this ago councilor ran so just one last question um and maybe we don't have an answer to that yet assuming this does finally get W Smith into adequate shape where does it live yeah so we talked about that in our last meeting and what Athena um I think suggested uh was there are several documents that actually I believe you created councilor Ry I'm familiar that live in SharePoint uh for folks to reference and the idea was that this would be something similar uh it would be something that we'd adopt as a reference tool it would live in SharePoint for for future counselors to access when they need it um that's the thought and it doesn't it doesn't go back to the council for any kind of vote it's an internal document created by um we could share it with the council but if they don't like it that doesn't really matter because it's an internal document I don't recall that my documents were voted on by the council they were voted on by the committee um and that was because it was committee business I believe so I think that to that point that's why this was initially in TSO because of the Outreach conversation I was on TSO I it was moved to go and now uh but I think Athena I'm gonna look for it's yeah just at this point probably move but we do have to write a memo to the Council on this anyway we'll tell them what happened to it whatever one way or the other okay does the council Athena need to vote on this it was never something that was referred it was brought by was it referred I don't remember it being formally referred was it yes it was was referred from the council to go so go whether go decides to table it recommend that the council table it indefinitely Or um or adopt something in the past the like the FAQ about um proclamations commemorations and so on um that wasn't voted by the the council that just lives on the go web page so if this is more um geared towards just being useful for as a council resource then it can still live in the on the council web page on the town website so it wouldn't just be internal in SharePoint it would be available to the public it would go to the council website and the council would would probably vote on it then right yeah they' have to approve it well I'm not I'm just asking I yeah and they would weigh in on it if you want it to be something like uh similar to an FAQ that you did for the the proclamations and so on then that could be your report to the council we created this thing it's going to live on the go page and people can use it or not or we think this is valuable enough that we would like the council to formally adopt it and put it on the council's policy page not a policy but that's where these kinds of things go exactly right okay thank you does that make it a measure just kidding yes um it is 7:55 and I'm holding us to our time so here's what I would like to do to move forward with this I'm going to give this one more meeting um that's what I'd like to commit to one more meeting that other items will happen at it but we've we've given this good thought and I really do appreciate all of the questions that folks have raised I think it's been really helpful last meeting I sent out some homework uh and I did publicly shame folks not publicly I sent an email shaming folks who didn't get their comments back to me and that's okay um not the shaming part that things come up in life it I please know I get it I'm gonna stop spiraling on that thought now so what I'm going to do is am I allowed to Athena send out the marked up version with linnen my comments because we did discuss it in this meeting so that I will send you or I will make sure that the committee has access again to the blank Word document as well as you can see where Lynn and I have gone through and marked this up I'm still going to ask you to please send me your own track changes version um I guess I don't know if you want to see Lyn in my comments but take your own version go through and what we're trying to do is our objective unless someone would like to move to change our mind at this um our objective is to create a reference document for counselors to use when proposing a measure to the council that is the purpose I say that because the document itself has multiple purposes and you'll see in my comments that I pitch cutting them cutting some of them because go decided to just focus on that one thing so if someone wants to reconsider that and use this for other things too we should discuss it but just use keep that frame of reference in mind as you go through um our next go meeting is not until November 7th I don't think is that true true story um that's what I have in my calendar so yes it is November 7th excellent so I'm gonna give you lots of time to do this um that means and there's no weird holidays the week of the 28th right so is if I get Athena everything on the 28th to post for the 31st there's the weirdest the weirdest holiday is that week it is but there's no official closure and it's the seven so if I say that everyone needs to get something to me on the 31st or the 1 sorry I won't make you do anything on Halloween but we're not closed for election day that's not a betterer holiday so I can still sorry I got burned by missing the the um juneth yes you did last this year so I'm now I'm paranoid um good there's no reason why I can't get you the the packet and agenda by the 4th right right yeah by the seventh you can tell me you want it earlier um okay everybody has to get me their stuff by the 1 okay so you need to get me a track changes version of any comments that you have as well as things you would delete things you would change things you would add by November 1st um I will combine them all into a document for us to use in our discussion on our meeting on the 7th does that work for everybody yes may I make a m suggestion please I I think it might be useful to use either your memo or another recent sponsor memo as an example to go through this and go what parts are useful when you're when you were writing this or what what parts are useful as a counselor reading a proposal or as a Committee Member considering a proposal like the committee's process doesn't have to just be back and forth about you know revisions and so on you can reimagine this whole thing if you want to but it might be worthwhile using a specific memo as an example and go like you said it might be better if I had used the guide maybe it's worthwhile looking at your Momo and looking at the guide and go is any of this that's in the guide should it have been in the memo and is it something that we want to ask sponsors to consider and is it something that counselors are going to go you know maybe I like this thing but I don't have enough information that was part of that bigger conversation that I was referring to so maybe the council likes an idea that sponsors are bringing but the sponsors haven't talked to any parents from any of the schools or they haven't considered what the traffic flow is like in front of those schools and if there's a study needed to see the impacts of the tra I'm picking on you because of your memo but you know like what of those things from the guide would strengthen what you've presented and give counselors a better idea if it's been really well thought out or not if someone says that we need a traffic study on Monday I'm GNA lose my mind um but yeah no I agree I I think do you think that that memo is a good one to use I I think it could be because there are potential like you said there's there's potential for those things to possibly be relevant um it might be interesting to hear if you talk to any parents or any anyone who you know sends their kiss kid on the bus or walks to school you know it it could be interesting to have that conversation as a side by side with with a proposal so I think that would be a really interesting exercise to look at um at at the meeting do you think that it's helpful are you are you saying you would recommend doing that as part of our kind of as our part of our reflection before the meeting or that we should talk through it in the meeting you don't need everyone to go and edit a document if we're going to do that at the meeting we can go through it and work on it together or or you go through it and work on it together and I can make those edits as we as you go um no I like looking at the the school zones memo like it do you think that that are you suggesting that be something that I send that memo out to everybody and say look at it through the perspective of this or are you saying that you're suggesting it as something for us to do as a group you can do it as a group exercise it's just an idea you don't have to I actually really like it I think it's a really good idea I I I think that's a good putting it into practice in a way that's helpful um ly you're muted I I have the feeling we're going to need to table this entire conversation till after we get through the goals I don't see us working on goals and also trying to wrestle with this yeah we're gonna okay thank you I'm I'm keeping that in mind as I plan the agendas um where we where we get to and in the time that we have I'm committing to giving this one more meeting and I'd still like people's feedback by the 1st uh if we end up talking about it on the 7th great and if not also fine um any last comments on this because we're three minutes over our time I saw counselor e Reaching Forward and I thought he was reaching to raise his hand and I got I was I was like I was waiting misread of the body language okay we are going to move to our Proclamation um so everyone knows their homework for the that next thing great um Athena I just sent you I realized this was something I was going to pull up um the community sponsor of this Proclamation had sent me an amendment to it I don't know if that email has come through to you yet darn okay um so in your packet there was oh sorry go ahead councel oh simply that I'd like to sponsor oh great okay and are you able to pull it up did I send you the original one yes I know I did that a while ago though let me see my keyboard not letting me type is driving me bananas um if not I I do think it was also emailed to Lynn if she has it um she might be able to pull it up I haven't sorry no you're fine my I don't know why it didn't send through to you um okay Lynn if you could pull up yep I got it one Shin sent us this afterno or not this afternoon Wednesday yesterday so this Proclamation was referred to go by the council president um the community sponsors sent some minor changes um do you want me to pull it up or what do you want me to do I'd like you to pull it up please thank you you have to disable somebody has to allow me to share one second okay you should be good okay she's she's added a sponsor um and then we wanted to add Lynn I think you said you would be a sponsor and counselor ET said he would be a sponsor as well CDE so I think yeah okay um all right let's let's go through line by line I'm comfortable with the ad of the um do we say resident sponsor or Community sponsor I'm realizing now I think we use Community sponsor typically but now I'm not sure I'm doubting myself um I'll check thank you I don't know if we have a consistent use there actually all right Lyn I'm gonna give you a minute to check that if you're yeah I am just give me two seconds to get I prefer Community since um I think I do too um some the members of the U added group are probably many of them or some of them so I agree let's just let's just do it Community sponsor whoops cons from here on out okay all right so can I just get rid of this yeah Community sponsor keep oh I'm sorry not Community but Community sponsor um it okay that's good um okay let's go through line by line um first whereas any changes first whereas okay second whereas South Asia no okay third whereas dwali no fourth whereas Dali is one I'm gonna have to start reading more than one word okay whereas Dali is joyously observed whereas diali has a cultural Festival whereas the coming together of diverse communities yep whereas the diverse cultural and religious Heritage whereas since 2022 I don't know if we need a comma after South Asian Festival of Lights seems like an gratuitous comma to me it should be taken out yes thank you I did edit this first and missed that one you missed that one so I missed it too same on me where is the South Asian festival of lights and next page where is the town of amorist acknowledges now they're four should be recognized not recognizes is that correct we the emmer toown council recognize yes we the that's correct we recognize and be it further proclaimed and then oh we got some okay this was sh's ad because there is a the invitation from Piner Valley Association to join celebration 10 yeah for culture performances and dinner at Wesley United Methodist Church 98 North Maple Street have a mass and then voted okay yeah um any other any other edits why does it do this Athena it thinks you want that it it's trying to be helpful and it's really failing thank you all right Lynn thank you for eding this I will entertain a motion for approving this uh Proclamation as amended approving the let me just say uh I will now accept a motion to approve the town of armmer proclamation recognized the 2024 Asian Festival of Lights would someone like to say so moved or declare itable why it's because I was writing at the same chair I know honestly shame does anyone else want to be chair uh I moved to find the town can't get out of it that easy I'm sorry recognizing the 2024 Asian Festival of Lights as clear consistent and actionable do uh is that motion being made is someone I move that you counselor um all right uh Lynn how do you vote I thank you councelor et how do you vote I counselor Ryan how do you vote hi and I am an i as well unanimous one absent so I don't screw up my report okay um all right thank you Lynn for for tracking that again I'm this is this I got this computer last week it should not be glitching like this but I appreciate everyone's patience with me today that is what we had on our agenda for today um one quick note I'd like to extend an offer because Athena told me that I could extend this offer I know that I have lots of strengths in this world and I knew and one of the reasons I did not want to chair is that I knew one of my strengths is not writing regular reports for the council I would love to extend an offer if any committee members would like to assist in writing those reports um to submit to the council I'm you don't have to commit now I could really use the help is what I'm saying so um what this entails is knowing what has to go in the report which I am I've been reminded of so I can tell you and uh just kind of keeping a quick tabs on on that and and doing it I can tell you how I have intended to do it in the past um which has not worked for me but might work for you um but basically it's a record of uh a brief overview of the conversation and record of votes as well as who was present at the meeting and what was um passed if someone would be inclined to support the committee in taking those reports on either with me or on your own please let me know I'm not asking for a commitment at this point but if you'd like to to Aid in that way I would greatly appreciate it um and I think it would strengthen our committee because I'm really struggling with that part other than that um any comments from the committee before we take a motion to adjourn no okay is there a motion to adjourn at 8:13 PM I move to adjourn thank you uh councelor ET hi councelor Ryan hi Lynn I I am an i as well thank you all so much have a wonderful rest of your evening and I will see you on Monday but then again on November 7th good night all thank you