##VIDEO ID:wZpLbQQ2T7c## December 5th excellent news it is Thursday December 5th at 6:31 p.m. and I'm going to go ahead and call this meeting of go to order and make sure everyone can hear me and be heard uh let's start with Lyn grimer present thank you George Ryan I'm here all right Pat d'angelus present great uh Paul bachan has Jo oh wait councelor at and then I'll get to Paul sorry councelor can you can you yeah okay thank you and uh Paul bachan has joined us as well can you hear us Paul yes thank you all right thank you so um we have a couple things before us today and I appreciate folks uh who are able to stay longer to kind of try to get things wrapped up um we're going to start with the town manager goals and I want to appreciate George for putting some really good thought in um to to these and and sending us some action items we also included in your packet the ecac report um for for folks to reference as we go through so I'm going to standby um we're going to start on our agenda with public comment um we do not currently have any attendees but this would be the point where if there were attendees they could tell us all the things that they have on their mind uh and so after that we are going to move to the town manager goals um does that sound good to anybody or everybody anyone everyone okay so um I I'm calling to order twice and public commenting twice my bad on the agenda um I'm going to pull up the working document that we've been doing George do you want to represent your pages verbally or do you want me to pull them up so you can talk us through what you put in I think it would be helpful if people could see absolutely let me pull that up I've spent some time looking at it so I think it would be helpful okay yep let me get that hang on one moment I just have to download it because otherwise it doesn't it does everything right okay um and then I also have some comments from Mandy Joe as well uh that will I will did you comment on your version or on the version that was in the packet yes yeah [Music] okay all right okay all right George can everybody see this okay do you want me to blow it up a little bit bigger little maybe is that better that's good that's good maybe a little yeah that's good okay D do you have yeah I can say just one or two very brief things about because this is different than what we've been working with as I think anyone would see quickly once they looked at it I kind of was inspired by um I know initially I resisted L can you speak please I'm sorry can you speak louder louder okay um I basically took the um policy goals and shrunk them to three so that's a big change and it's something we should talk about so when you look at this document instead of the five policy goals that we have been working with I took from what Lynn had said earlier and uh said let me just try it which is three so climate action is one and if we scroll down for a second what I thought was taking the second Community well I call it well-being but Community wellbeing actually is that hang on for a second yeah and social justice is what is what I called this um and uh and then the third became housing and economic Vitality so that's the first thing that I did that is different uh to try and basically create three um policy goals and three managerial goals we're not what OB so we need to think about that if we go back up um and what I tried to do with the objectives is not toy with them very much at all but in this case for instance I took some of the language from action items and put it into the objective under the principle that we want the objective area to be as broad as sort of big picture as possible and action items should be the kinds of things that we can in essence say check or no check you know done or not done um so that was the principle behind what I tried to do with objectives and then in action items I just either I struck things that I thought could come out or I put in lots of things that I thought would be worth discussing and um they just obviously just suggestions and so that's the first thing that was kind of what drove me to do this thank you um councilor did you have a question or comment on this you would raise your hand and then yeah I I was thinking about the action item and we have here support what would support look like um support the development and what would take actions related to they are some actions that one could take towards CP that would not be praise worthy so um are we keeping it broad or are we is are we going to CH Lo down into something that is a bit smoother I think you put your finger on a problem right from the get-go um and there I think we just have to talk it through I have and we have in the documents um in today's packet and we've gotten I think also an email from Darcy Dumont and also I think something from the Coalition of people involved in climate action and they have a whole host of recommendations and suggestions um and I I don't know what I don't know which ones should be included here but I agree that this first support the development of climate action oh sorry um take actions related to carp that language is just very yeah it just basically leaves it open as to what specific actions we're asking the town manager to take um and I assume it would be based on input he's getting from these various um you know uh uh AC supporters various um you know but yeah how specific do we want to get here I don't know I uncomfortable and and equipped to do it um George I'm raising my hand here I don't have a problem with condensing it down to the three goal areas but I do have a problem with just one objective per area because I think we've kind of gotten a little bit too close to just recreating in table format what we had before and so I think that this is a good start in terms of narrowing down goal areas but I agree that there are many things in here that are not that are still too up for interpretation and that I think if we're giving specific Direction it it should be specific and so I I would support us moving what we had what we had done last time with a couple some areas had multiple objectives um which I think Le lends itself to more actionable action items um and so I would prefer that method of having the objective broken out I also do not like this because it means nothing um and I I think I talked about this last time no one has defined what a climate lens is and so I don't think that it's fair to put it in as an objective here unless we can Define it um so I really I I do support breaking it down into three goal areas but I would like us to break out the objectives again and I think that um as we go through today getting more more specific um in the action items is going to be important because I think you know support the development we see this some people wanted more some people wanted less I think we need to be clear on what the expectation is um so that we're being fair in our in our goals and our evaluation that's my that's my thought Lynn so if we look back at what we've done in the past we've had one objective with then 1 two 3 four and whatevers those would be the the bullets I believe here um so if we can condense the objective into kind of one and I have no I I find the whole climate lens thing very useless um in fact if anything later on we should ask that the count that the town manager use the goals as a a lens for all of them not just climate but racial Justice Etc so when I see something like going back to fr uh Council R's question when I see something like um support that to me that means Paul you the town manager along with your staff should support the council and bring and either bring forth yourselves or uh help us write things like wasti huler bylaws solar bylaws Etc that's to me what support means and then when I say take action Rel ated to um the climate action adaptation and so forth there's a really serious plan ecac works hard on that plan if I'm not mistaken George some of these words like um Comm com buildings Transportation energy waste Etc came from that climate group so it's kind of saying in doing the plan let's focus on this and then the Third one not using the one that's struck out um the know my only concern here is that this is money that may end up going away under the new Administration but nevertheless it's part of what we want to do for the school and um because that was always the hope that this money would be the kind of money we could use to get solar panels and then the climate leader Community designation that's something that I understand that Stephanie has been working on that's actually a an administrative decision but it does mean the Town Council will have to understand that decision when we see you know budget priorities so I'm I'm arguing two things I'm arguing first of all that like we had in the past we had one lead sentence or one lead phrase that would be the objective and then under it we had several action items and that's what this does the I I strongly disag go ahead Pat I've already spoken you can go you're muted you're muted are you able to unmute Pat I'm sorry um worries I like this structure I think the objective should be clear and direct and I think the action items should be in a separate column there I would so so I don't agree with you Anna I'm um I like this structure but here's what I want to know and I want to know from Paul bachan because one of the things that I feel like is i i as a counselor would like to have you much more vocally and independently involved as we create this uh because it's what you're working from and as counselors we don't we don't agree on everything and I guess I I want to understand honestly and how you use this document and do you need us to say do a then B then C and I don't think that's true but I would like to hear from you so I I do want to hear from Paul but I also would like to clarify Pat because what you said about objectives here and action items here is not what I was pushing back on um I wanted to clarify and pull up the document we've been working on before and and if that if folks still disagree with it that's fine but the whole purpose of breaking these out into having different objectives in each goal area was that people's ratings and rankings and all of that get totally mushed together when you have multiple objectives squished in and each of them has their own action items so what I was trying to do with the initial document um was the idea um so this was the initial version we were working with last week um which was that it's it's kind of like when we have a resolution we break out all of the ANS into different columns we don't smush them together so we talked about having one objective is to continue to make progress on the council's climate action goals and then here is where we would specify which ones those were and we talked about referencing the ACAC report and then support the development of climate action focused bylaws as a separate objective the reason for that is because when we start to Mush it all together people's feedback gets all mushy it gets kind of they they pick one or the other or they kind of combine it and we end up with an average in the middle every time so for me breaking out the objectives and not with to a crazy number allow us to address the things that we want to address within these areas which I think is particularly important as we talk about condensing categories which we did um in in some of the areas below so for me that was the the that's why I feel strongly about having not not forcing ourselves into one objective per area we have been doing one objective per area for years it's not working that's part of the whole reason why we're looking at this so I do feel strongly that we that multiple objectives per area helps us to be clearer and be more focused in what we're asking be the priorities in the coming year that's I just wanted to clarify and and again this is not this is what I think this committee came up with this is not something that I've completely done on my own so if we if the committee wants to go to one objective per goal area totally fine I will obviously respect the will of the committee but that was why we broke it into multiples last time uh Lyn yeah thanks um Pat and George may remember this when we first the first year or two that we did the evaluation for the town manager we would actually rate them on all of those activities okay and then it got to be like 96 and it was ridiculous but if we ended up with three policy goals and three administrative goal or whatever they're called administrative goals and under each of the goals we had like three or four actions we could go back to rating by activity without it being as burdensome and it would allow counselors to say yes no you know Superior or whatever commendable at one and something else on another so I I don't I don't want to be driven but to the idea of a single of Beyond a single objective by the fact that we can change the evaluation system as long as we don't end up with 96 no no object subobjectives or whatever we want to call them that's all so to refresh our memory on that yeah and I think I I just the way that I think this would work best in the system we had designed before would be that folks do offer a rating on each objective by looking at worthy action items completed um and so you know if we're making good actionable items in that action items column in the green column they should be able to say this is complete this is in progress Etc and then that drives the rating for The Objective otherwise we're I think it stays in this weird two up for interpretation space but um George I'm getting the sense that we're letting the evaluation process and the the challenge that poses each of us at the end of each year um and the issue of of choosing and and rating and so on and all that to control what I think is the far more important task here which is to create a document that clearly lays out uh the core objectives of the coming year and the things that we'd like Paul to concentrate on I really don't care in the end about the rating system or and how it plays out obviously it does have practical impacts and I'm not indifferent to that but I think our Focus here should be and that's you're raising that on to some degree as well on just making sure that this document to the best of our ability presents um clear objectives and action statements that will help the town manager in the coming year guide staff and it reflects we hope the the broad will of the of the council and so um your point is that under objective it might make makes sense to have at least two here as we had originally and I then clumped it into one um and I'd like us to focus on that and then on identifying some specific action items and not be so concerned about how's this actually going to play out when we come to raing Paul and how it come how it gets played out when we construct the document uh I I don't really care about that what I care about is creating something that we feel like actually says something and gives Paul some clear Direction and he will weigh in at some point on this as well but I don't really care about the rating stuff um so right now the question is do we want to have go back to the two objectives in this first category and then we need to look at the action items and see if we're happy with them or we want to add some or take some out and that's what we should be focused on I think here and not um you know how we can at the end of the year we have to kind of put numbers to things and 3.2 and whatever I just I don't care about that so so do we want to I is a question to all of you and to Frey too here um do you want to separate this out into two I don't really you know that's fine by me um and then let's get some action items attached to it and let's go through this document yeah councelor um we have kept the town manager on pause for a while and I'm actually interested in what he has to say which was raised by um Parts um what does what do the documents look like to the town manager that would give us a direction that being said um I would respond to judge by noting that it isn't only the counselors who end up looking at the document to rate the town manager we this year already had members of the public do so and even if that doesn't mean much for us it does mean a little bit to the public and so we do have to weigh the balance of something that is clear enough for the town manager while at the same time also clear enough for the public to be able to look at the government in town and have an idea of whether it's doing its work well thank you councelor um Paul i' I didn't call on you because you didn't raise your hand I'm assuming that would do you have something at this point that you'd be willing to share sure so I think you know the number of objectives is kind of you know I'm looking at I'm always looking at the third column the action items that's really where that's where the bread and butter is like and I think it's really important for you to say what you want and I think that um that does Drive our actions because they are action items and that's how we're going to be measured um you know certain ones like the uh becoming a climate leader Community does have impacts it has budgetary impacts and things like that um and some of them we you know that might require a vigorous more vigorous conversation you know in the process um in terms of what we can accomplish under as a climate leader Community or um and you know I think that uh so I really am focus more on the action items because I'm a really concrete person um but I do think I think um uh FR I think is accurate that this is a public document as well you're speaking to your constituents as well as to the staff so I think the constituents are going to say are you capturing everything we think you as a council should be highlight or prioritizing for our community and I think that I mean I think over the last few years we've really sort of narrowed down the priorities really well um and it's been really helpful because it's been consistent from year to year pretty much that makes it really easy for staff to know what the priorities are the council the council been pretty consistent about the you know the you're not adding brand new things a whole lot of brand new things every year there's always a couple things that pop up but so um I don't really think that is um like I think that the idea of um I think creating bylaws is a tool that's an action item that's not an objective the objective isn't to create bylaws it's to achieve something so I would be I would look at that objective thing to see what what are we really saying in that objective list so again I I I I think the energy would be better spent on the action items versus the the objectives I agree uh oh sorry Lyn yeah so I just went and looked at the carp plan um and I'm I don't want to request that we pull it up but the fifth item under the carp plan is Municipal policy so in other words bylaws so putting bylaws into action to me is consistent with supporting the carp plan that's all I think that's a fair point so to to prioritize our time here what I'd like to do I I want to know um I I want to focus us on action items and I I've got some feedback from Andy I've got some feedback from George I I've got some that are populated in here that we could work with but I what I don't want to do is just ignore I I want to commit to coming back to the objectives and having that conversation um as well and so I I just I want to kind of affirm that we're not dropping that conversation but we're going to shift to action items because I do think that George in in looking at the objectives you wrote I think they kind of combin what we had before with some slight shifts um sorry I'm trying to figure out the smartest order because I let me straw pole of the group unless George is what you're about to say is is like helping me get to a solution here cuz what I was going to say is let's straw poll if folks are comfortable combining into the three goal areas that you proposed um and then so so quick straw poll here our folks so we prior to this we had the goal areas and under policy as climate action community health and safety economic Vitality housing affordability racial equity and Social Justice and um George's proposal has it down to climate action Community well-being and social justice and housing and economic Vitality are folks comfortable squishing down to those three okay so I'm noting here that uh that will be we will squish into those three um we're going to skip objectives for the time being and shift to action items George my screen is just too small to have all of these open would you I have um I have the draft with my and Mandy's comments would you be able to share um not share your screen but as we go through would you be able to tell me what you have in yours as if we're missing it um I can just copy it hang on let me just yeah I can certainly try absolutely it's just I don't know the level I haven't had a chance shamefully to say to look at what you've done I've been working all day on what I created and totally fine no but correlating with Paul's document um and trying to uh so I've been focused exclusively on this um and so I don't know which has more detail I would take whichever one has the more detail and then you can take stuff out or add stuff in but if you're constantly adding stuff into something it's going to get uh so all right so I I just copied just for the first one I'll I'll go through as we get through it I'll do this um for each one just going to turn this off for a second all right um sh which which one I'm sorry you're fine which one breaks it down into the three goals I think my it's mine georgees breaks it into the three goals I think what I worry about is that if we start with georgees then decide to go I'm trying to avoid the objectives conversation right now and with georgees we could we can smush them down and and debate which objectives need to go if that Mak sense one basically really talking about uh two sentences and one suggestion would be just drop that last clause and put it back where it was and just leave the objective to be um to continue to make progress on the carp and prepare the town to be resilient in the face of climate change that seems to be a perfectly clear and Lucid statement of our climate action objective nobody's offered anything else in addition to that what I did is just take one of what was an action item and and attach it to the um objective category and quite frankly they could just go back to the action item category it could just be dropped completely I think some people don't like that phrase anyway um so I think we could set settle the objective right here um you have it as a separate objective so you might want to make an argument for why you want it as a separate objective my thought is either just drop it or put it back under action item okay Lenn yeah I maybe as because I spent more time on the other um be I think in going back to the one that George put in um but if it's all I think George am I correct because many of these phrases sound very familiar you went back to the old bylaws and you um I mean the old um evaluation the old set of goals and you put all of those action items initially maybe in here and then got rid of some uh that's part of what I did but I also took a look at the documents we've been sent um by the various um climate action activists and Advocates um who have a much better grasp of what's been going on also look closely at Paul's very detailed description and his self-evaluation of what's been accomplished which is quite impressive and at that point I I felt like I was in over my head um and not able to make a decision as to what definitely should be here and what shouldn't as far as actions and so I picked a couple that I thought stood out but um I'm going to need help um as far as the objectives goes I I pretty much was working with the document we had right in front of us with what Anna had created and we had created last time and I thought well let's put um you know the lens phrase into this Cate into objectives because it's Broad in general but um quite frankly at this point I don't really care could take could take it out put it back it was um but the objective I think is pretty clear clearly stated unless somebody has another objective they'd like to add here um I think yeah I'll shut up um Len your hand is still up and then my hand is up after so I look at this just very quickly if we take the very top goal that's up under objectives I'm sorry the very objective this one and we stay with that I although I think Darcy was the one that suggested the word resilience and I guess it's in there resilience in the face of climate change and just stop there and then if we look over on the under the action items you've already moved the four action items that George had and then I guess these others maybe um come from Mandy Jo or from you and yeah the only one I see that's seriously different is the capital inventory um that's been a discussion though that's that's not totally new okay I don't think it is it has been a discussion yeah so the bylaw one it's just worded differently right um so rather than spend a whole lot more time on here for the time being I would take the include the capital inventory as an action item along with the four that are already there that I guess George those are georgees and then I'd get rid of this waste hauler uh thing because we already have bylaw one yeah I uh this was Mandy's ad I think this was um well maybe there's pieces of suggestions I I I'm just noting there were some that I was like we haven't discussed these as a council so um I think this is where this this could be very much the place to say the council wants to debate it um and and charge it I think this is the problem we get into often is like so hypothetically I don't know that Mandy has any plans to do this but hypothetically if if she's planning to bring forward a bylaw on Banning two-stroke engines and it's not in the goals it's really hard to then justify the use of Staff time and and Paul's time and energy on this right so I I do uh I think that was why initially we had I don't to be honest I do not mind I don't like the wording of this one I don't mind keeping this one at one um because Lenn I agree with you the karp talks about development of bylaws why this was broken out was because the council last time felt the need to very explicitly State some things like waste holler etc etc but if we have them clearly spelled out in an action item maybe that'll be enough for that area um so here here's my suggestion after the word um in the in the area where it says and other potential bylaws just put in parentheses uh EG you know bylaws that reduce just take that whole phrase that Mandy Joe gave you yeah and put it there and get rid of that piece and then take the inventory and put it down here sorry I got to I you can't see my finger I'm sorry I can't I can't take put include the in capital inventory and put that in the group down there I mean I can just merge these all if they're in an action item I'm going to arrange this so that it's a nice table after but right okay and then just get rid of the under the objectives get rid of the second and the third one and are there any are there any action items my God stop um are there any action items in this current we're just looking at climate action right now that folks object to so just to reiterate them include in the capital inventory a timeline for the transition of vehicles support the development of climate action focused bylaws um um paraphrasing take actions related to the carp that reduce emissions in the areas of Home multif family apartment complexes and commercial buildings this is one that um has been the focus from ecac too leverage inflation reduction act funds for municipal Services um my question on this one just as an aside is how do we know what that what like what does that mean um how do we know that that's occurring so that's the only one that I really have objection find objectionable um and seek climate leader Community designation and accompanying accompanying funding I want to just say one thing on this we had the conversation last week about leverage federal funds and what that looked like um and my recollection one of the things we talked about was that that is good Financial prati financial management right and so that should be something that is assumed under that policy area and we don't necessarily need to specify it because it's not it's not necessarily one something we can always control but two it's not yeah I don't know that's my statement on that I don't I don't know that this is a fair action item to to put in there why don't you just put a note behind it that say may be covered under finance and then that's like a comment or you mean in actual a comment you know because George I believe in when you went to finance you talked about leveraging Grant funds uh you talking to me yeah I've never gone to finance they would never let me never in your life I me Financial goal down below oh down below okay yes yes I'm gonna suggest taking leverage inflation reduction act out um just remove it because quite frankly I can't explain it it was taken from uh some of these documents and unless someone has a better understanding of it I do um I think we could take it out and who knows the inflation reduction Act is even gonna exist that's one of the other things I'm sorry and and Anna you're absolutely correct we should apply for every and Any Grant we can to help achieve these goals that's what this means yeah but that also should be in the financial guidelines right not necessarily in the goals right right all right so where we're at here I will I will clean this but we've got Paul this is where I'm going to look to you we we got you to four action items under climate action here um working on the capital inventory um not doing the whole thing but a timeline for the trans I of mun municipal buildings vehicles and Equipment uh supporting development of climate action focused bylaws including the waste Toler bylaw solar bylaw and other potential bylaws I know that's kind of big and Broad and might not be ideal but um it's where we are for now take actions related to the car that reduce emissions in the areas of Home multif family apartment and commercial building Transportation energy waste and carbon sequestration and seek the climate leader Community designation and accompanying funding from the Department of energy or yeah do yeah so Ian so The Challenge on this is going to be money it's um so we're looking we are evaluating every building we're going to be able you know the capital needs of the town are intense and if we're looking at a project a finance uh that has $3 million in capital projects every year it's going to take us 30 40 years to do what we need to do and are you talking about this one so I'm sorry are you talking about the this specifically and then and then the re in the reality with vehicles there's just not options there's no there's no availability even if you wanted to buy vehicles and I think there's a real question amongst our professional staff as to whether it makes sense to go you know all electric on many vehicles they just they will not they they they say they can't meet their mission with with this um I think what we're the way we're doing it is pretty good you know hybrid uh cop cars and putting the batteries on ambulances and and and um uh fire trucks and things like that but you know um the the electric technology isn't sufficient unless we like double the number of vehicles we have for a snowstorm you know because we put every vehicle on the road for 12 hours straight can I ask a question on that would this be less maybe it's not a timeline but it's a outline of what would be necessary in order to do a transition um yeah something like that like because because I asked this question every year that I'm allowed on jcpc right and and this year I asked Gabe if you wanted a Tesla and and it was it was a fun conversation but I mean I think that that do you think this is more about explaining to the council what would be necessary in order to do the work we do not on fossil fuels and and that might not be a timeline it might be we need them to make an all electric dump truck that doesn't need charging every four hours or something like do you think that that might be more possible I think that's much more much I like that idea a lot better because it's like come up with a even if you say realistic plan people are going to look at it and say it's it's really because it's going to be a long if we're you know decarbonizing our buildings um it's just a lot to get to phrase this even if we make a list of the things that have to happen you know if you use the word plan it includes all of that plans include a plan you can't do that you can here's a timeline for this you can't put that in the timeline so if just use the word plan but a plan would imply finances for it though you know like what here's our plan how you g to finance it I if I'm the councel the first question I ask how you going to finance it we don't have a financing mechanism okay I I understand I to me that's Athena can I offer just using the word criteria in there yes thank you that's so much better I was like this is not correct that's good um all right criteria the criteria for okay um all right so include in the capital inventory criteria for the transition of municipal buildings vehicles and equipment from the use away from the use of fossil does that sound more feasible Paul and yeah you know um you might want to say well what's your three-year plan or fiveyear plan like tell me what your priorities are that that's I think that would be a useful exercise that's something that people can get you know when we say move every every vehicle uh or eliminate all these things these big picture items just like well what do you plan to do within your budget over the next three to five years okay all right all right thank you that's very helpful um Paul any thoughts on this second or the next three are we including the the language that's highlighted in red yeah that's I'm tracking my changes just so you all can see as I'm typing so this came from Mandy this was yeah right and this is going to be news to everybody including yours truly and I have a thousand questions about it so maybe we just leave it as other potent other potential bylaws because that covers it if Mandy does in fact or somebody does come forward with a bylaw such as this U it falls within this description it's a potential bylaw related to climate action I don't think I what's the point of putting it in here um if it hasn't been presented and we have no idea if anyone's going to present it um why are we offering it as an example why not just even though she you know just say another potential bylaws I'm inclined to agree with you I think my question how do we then make sure that we're protecting Fall's time so that the council doesn't refer 17 new I mean these are let's be honest vote to refer it we could vote not to refer it we could but I think I think that's the that's we need to make sure that we as a council are having that conversation a bit more realistically than I think we always have so and that's on us I get that we should create a separate document which is for the council goals for rules of procedure people can only anyway okay um so uh objections to me deleting the phrase in red speak now okay great excellent news I mean excellent work sorry um Paul any other feedback on on climate action before we get into the next one no what I take if I may interrupt what I take this to be saying is that that Paul and staff were doing a great job in a whole lot of areas keep doing it is really what this says I don't know if that's what Paul gets out of it but that's what I kind of mean by because it doesn't have anything explicit um or again Paul what your thought yeah well it's not Paul it's usually Stephanie or no sure but yeah what what would they make of this but like you know the climate leader Community the only thing that will happen is we will pursue that um it we will'll say we we intend to convert our rolling Fleet to electric and then it's going to be impossible to do that you know like School schools is a minor thing but you know there's a lot of infrastructure has to get built if they want to go to all El buses and they they're not going to have funds to do that that's why we'll seek grants to do it but I think once we say we we're you know that'll be a challenge to do but I think it's an okay challenge it it does open the door to lots of extra money especially if we do it right now so I think that's it's an advantage to doing it right now so Paul you do think it's possible for us to do though it won't be easy as opposed to there's no way we can do this in in the foreseeable future because if that's the case we should just take it out no I think I think the danger is that uh the community says you said you were going to do this now you you aren't and I think when I talked with Stephanie what the state is saying is just declare your intentions you don't have to actually do it you're they're trying to get people to say we're intending to do this that's one of the KE we don't say obtain yeah okay you say Seek say Seek yeah just do your best okay and you shall find I want to do a time check yeah I know I'm trying to move us along all right thank you Lynn um okay so Community Health and safety um Let me let me copy over what George had real quick give me one minute please um any just conversation on this before we get started oh I will actually I have some conversation sorry um the I was at the finance committee meeting um where they talked about what they were putting in the budget guidelines regarding Crest and um we already had the assessment in here but they um just they affirmed that part um as well as something that uh they they wanted to they the basically the the gist of it uh if anyone else was there was that they wanted to initially put it in the budget guidelines and then um they said no this is more of a rule than a budget sideline um so that's where we that's where we got wow George there's so remember this is combining two no oh you're right you're right you're right thank you okay let's start um start from the very beginning so let's get the language can we get the language of the the language the objective is for better wor to ensure the health and safety of the residents of amorist and continue making advances and racial equity and social justice yep I'm going to copy it in here too sorry it's a long um all right well I will copy it in here once I figure out where my stupid thing is but all right this is George's language here the second second pace is georgees there's too many ah sorry there's too many items to um it's splitting the page but this is George you had combined community health and safety and social justice right is that correct yes okay okay so um let's look at yeah I think that this this is pretty clear as a as a combo um okay I'm I'm comfortable with the the new phrasing anyone else I'm I think the new phrasing is good yep okay all right so we have two here assess the impact and effectiveness of the community respond ERS for Equity safety and service program and then um conduct assessment so I think my issue here is I don't know that we want to dictate I think this sounds fine just kind of on face value but I don't know that we want to dictate specifically what the assessment is about in that I I expect that this would be a a big debate I would rather frame it as conduct an assessment um fine think is probably what if that's okay no no not here yeah all right so then we have um resident oversight board that's a we had this before y because that still is not that's still in the work so I think we should probably Contin right I agree completely and uh and I'm counting on folks to to raise a hand or raise your voice if you disagree um continue to undertake a review of Public Safety protocols this was also one we had last time as well I'm seeing Paul nodding okay great yeah um uh identify develop and coordinate programming for Youth Empowerment this has been on every draft that I've gotten some people have crossed it out some people have said keep it in so I think that this is an item um that is for discussion we last time had talked and said remove and I I agree with what we said I agree with us two weeks ago um remove because we don't know what completion of this goal looks like so remove move this unless the end goal and direction are clearly articulated and voted on by the council because what we looked at today not today oh my god when we looked at the Town manager self- evaluation this year there's so much happening for Youth Empowerment and yet the counselor feedback on this item varied pretty widely and so I think that unless we are clearly articulating what we expect from this I don't think that it's a fair thing to put in here um that's my take but I'm happy to hear from other people we had we had proposed last time as a committee taking this out not when I did this I was thinking of two groups of people in the community that I would like I personally and hope some of my colleagues would agree we would like the manager to focus on in the coming year one is obvious from what I've done here as seniors the other is young people and Paul in his self-evaluation has shown us that there's a fair amount of work happen in that area in terms of just finding out a what programs are out there and inventorying them and and making sure we have a complete list and secondly still looking for space or spaces where they might be Consolidated or whatever um I I support that I guess is what I'm saying and I realize there may you want keep it in okay yeah well that yeah I think we should have something about youth in here um and we should have something about seniors in here do we think George oh sorry go ahead well I I want to get to the senior stuff because I really appreciate you putting that in here my question is there was a significant number of there were a significant number of opportunities available as reflected in the town manager self- evaluation are we going to expect the town manager to be developing new programming in the coming year and is that going to be something that we expect every year or is it improve current programming I I think for me it's what is the what's the ask in the coming year councelor I think you're touching upon something they were a lot of activities the I we already have seen then that the town has been developing some of those programming so maybe that isn't as necessary in this Clause as much as identifying what works and coordinate what works um as well if we find that there are some things that don't work we'll take those out we can then bring in new things and that would be the development but I don't think it is necessary putting it in here almost makes that an imperative in addition to everything else but by taking it out it leaves room I believe to see what works and what doesn't work thank you what about the word promote like I think that this is the other piece was that there was so much much that was happening that clearly a lot of us did not I mean not that all of us have children and are in the target market here but what if it's also identify promote and coordinate so maybe they're not even developed by the town are folks would folks like that okay I like that okay um we know I have an issue with this one and I will tell you why again and again and again um this is not actionable unless we Define what a racial and social justice lens is in the spirit of this this is so good and so important the reality of this is that it is not a definable action that the council would agree upon and so we either need to Define this very clearly as to what this looks like in practice and specify that here or take it out um that's my my strong thoughts on it if people really want to keep this language in it's fine to me it feels like a platitude and I it I that's my issue with it uh Lynn I vote for taking it out and that the goals become the lens by which we do everything that's it yeah I think that um it should be here somewhere and I'll tell you why uh for instance one of the things that we do when we're interviewing people we put together a script we ask our questions and one of the questions I insist that we always have is um we have a question about structural racism how it plays out in the town of amers what's your definition of structural racism have you have you experienced it and it's really just a threshold question question for any candidate to are to sort of say have you thought about this are you aware is it totally foreign to you and it's a very revealing question to ask we ask it in different ways because some people have really strong feelings or experiences they have to realize that when they work come to work for the town of ammer it's something that we deal with a lot and we want people to be comfortable um a lot of folks really stumble over it um people who have not had any experience um and so I think that that's kind of revealing it doesn't it's not an elimination question but it sure helps us understand what what what and and it's also conveys to the candidates that's a value that we have so we always we always like to have that kind of question on on our in our interview teams for every position especially police of fire in Crest Paul how do you use it outside of just hiring though um like because this is making all decisions any decision so how does it come into play that's the most uh obvious one for me I don't have really good answers for the others off the top of my head I'd have to think so maybe this langu maybe this and language belongs under the management um in that area but here perhaps not yeah under personel whatever I I hear what Paul's saying I think that's great that's good I'm glad we do it and we should continue to do it and I also hear him saying that somewhere this language should should be in this document um if we can do it but here's probably not the the right place councelor um I think the suggestion is a good one I was also thinking it's possible to move it to objective um the town manager used the expression value value is not um an action item and so in that way it could be some kind of objective that we have for the town and the town manager that being said I I I think there are a lot of different lenses that we're putting on and it I I think after a while that can distort our vision you know so if we can find a better way to express the same thought without using the word lens I would be very glad I think I'm picturing you know when you go to the eye doctor and they like like all the things um so so I think as as we're talking what I'm curious what I'm more curious about and what I would actually think might be more valuable Council AR raises a really good point about possibly moving this to be an objective because there are some things that absolutely fall under this for example the review of Public Safety protocols this is one where that is that to me is one way of using a racial and social justice lens in practice but I think for me what actually would be more interesting as a goal and an actionable one is to say how are you using a racial and social justice jce lands tell us um not just use it but provide to the council a an overview of the practices that you employ in different departments to take into account power privilege and and the impact of of race and identity in our world that's a bit big but that's what I'm trying to get at is like maybe it would be more helpful for the council to say what does this actually look like versus just saying go forth Pat well I agree with what you're just saying but I um I'm going to need to leave the meeting okay but my body's starting to shake which is saying you've sat too long please rest Pat discussion and I will be at the next meeting if you have other thoughts feel free to email me thank you um so is there a different is is what I said resonate I know Pat said she agreed but I I struggle with this because it's so IL defined and part of me is saying well why doesn't the town Define it what how do you um but that's a really big undertaking and I don't also want to assign a massive undertaking that is yeah sorry go ahead Lynn I'm GNA suggest that because we don't need get bogged down take something like this put a note off to the side need to determine it's where it needs to be something like that otherwise we're I I mean I think our goal is to try to get through this tonight we have to um everyone in my office is sick and I am refusing to get sick so Lyn your hand is still up did you have something I'm sorry no nope totally fine okay um we we'll deal with that in a minute uh provide training regarding my go um regarding racial Equity rights and other options to the Town Council employees and members of the public this is something that I believe is is happening um do we want to keep it in here although I don't know that it was open the Town Council part might be new um but well we're allowed to go to the ones for the members of the public so anyway do we want to keep this in I think belongs under Personnel or something not I just don't think well it's but it's all it's members of the public and Town Council and I think it's in service of yeah health and safety of the residents of I don't mind it being here um my question is if this is our goals for the year and this is already happening to a satisfactory level is it something that we should keep in the goals as a priority for the coming year my feeling is we have a Dei Department It's very effective it's very active again reading Paul's self evaluation he doing lots of these things on a regular basis we're not telling them something they already don't know we're not telling Paul something he doesn't already know so why isn't here and I think in that conversation we need to be prepared to tell the council that things that are ongoing that there's should be fewer things in our ultimate list because we are not putting in everything that's ongoing intentionally we're saying keep on keeping on so I think if yeah if we take this out that needs to be um St clear right and again encourage people to if they have not read put read carefully Paul's uh report which details many of these things and and uh so yeah I would suggest that it be both these items could be removed or at least this one and the next one yes yes have we done this one fully identify and proposed revisions I don't know that we've necessarily well yeah then a question becomes who um is this we talking to the are we talking to the council here or to Paul yeah that's my issue with this one as well this feels like a job for the council we are specific to Public Safety protocols which is Paul that's right but this one feels like a council job to me Paul would you you unmuted for a second do you yeah I mean I think I think it's both of us have have responsibilities in this area okay so what if we say work with the council to identify and propose okay okay I mean I think our Dei Department would like to take this on oh happy to have their help I just don't want to like cut out our responsibility here either you know like if people want this done they also could take a go at it that's why work with the council is an okay um develop you need to fix your typing there just a bit identify no no no I was it's a crossed out capital I oh I'm sorry I'm sorry you're fine I it's um more now we get into some details and here I just need people to and Paul to weigh in I mean this may be more than but um yeah anyway there it is all right George what's the difference between a dedicated gym space and an exercise classroom uh that might be something that we could uh let me see develop plan for addressing critical space and program needs in the senior center which includeed dedicated GM space um I think it it should just be um in kitchen renovations it's um dedicated exercise space um exercise space I would just leave it at senior center Paul didn't we um didn't we didn't we allocate money to do the kitchen or help with the kitchen yeah so so we have money set aside it's actually going to require Council action to put the money into Play It's we're ready to go um it's not gonna be enough to do everything we want to do that's the downside so maybe take out the particulars um which will come up in discussion anyway and you will talk about and just make it that we'd like you to address critical space and program needs thank you that's also Fair because they might do an assessment of what are the we've heard these but it could be helpful to actually do an assessment cor that is correct um okay next one this George I think would be more of a financial uh Financial guideline right not struggle if it's a goal or not because I I I I think actually I think we have that we have it for three days a week and um no well we just hired someone we just because pvta is funding a position and we're sharing it with the Deerfield Paul you're already accomplishing your goals for 202 May if we're talking about the same thing George this is a position that goes from uh Summer from from ammer to uh Greenfield a couple times a day no well this my understanding is this is simply one that seniors access to take them to doctor's appointments and other kinds of things it's uh was originally a a van that was gotten with the help of Mindy yeah I got yeah I got and the request is and again it may yeah that's yeah that's what it is so is it my question George is does it have to be the full-time driver for the Ada accessible van or is it develop a plan so that seniors have access to 5day a week service um this is really specific if that's if we know that this is the path forward that's totally fine but do we want to just say make it so that they can get to appointments in such five days a week or do we want to specify how and I to be clear I I very much appreciate you putting this in because I think it's a good question and again it gets into the delicate area of dictating as opposed to requesting um we can go to Lyn and come back if you want yeah I don't know what to say Lynn yeah I I don't I think you want to do something more like you were talking about Anna about and don't be even specific about what it has to be but it's to me this goal is way too specific and this this activity is way too specific and and help me understand why that is the case in other words in general your is that when we get into action items the more specific they get the more the more the more they're I do agree with you me or with Lyn you George I agree that we want more specific action items too specific but it's no no it's one part of it that I'm finding too specific just because I don't know that we know that this is the right solution to the problem so I think being specific about solve the problem I do think we should say five days a week service transportation service I Ada accessible transp Ada accessible 5 day a week Transportation but I don't know if we should specify full-time driver it might be able to be folded into like that that's my hang up with it okay but we could say arrange for senior center Ada accessible Transportation program to run 5 days a week that would be that would be acceptable to me okay um what did I just say arrange for Sen Center ad accessible program that runs five five day a week five days days a week and take out service yes where is service take it out and keep five days a week gotcha I couldn't find it for a second all right don't take away the strikeout or I maybe I'm just my eyes are getting weak that that's not a strikeout that's there's no strikeout let me I can zoom a little bit more though no that's yeah it's very good okay um I really like this one okay update the Amber bicycle and pedestrian Network plan this is one that I assume Paul would be worked with the transport new Transportation Commission if it comes in uh yeah I could do it now create and submit a complete streets tier 2 prioritization plan and a tier three construction application to mass do yeah the point of these is that they um at least I've been been led to believe that they would open up funding for us um for uh certain kinds of uh infrastructure Road Pro projects and at least the first one should be able to be done without too much difficulty I think and I Paul can tell me or someone will tell me quickly whether the second one is is a a huge Finance and time drain but um both of them have been uh put forward as ways that we can actually access funds um in particular they're thinking of what might happen at the uh um East uh common uh outside you know at Fort River so that's why they're in here Paul any thoughts um I don't know enough I'd have to ask uh DPW what they think okay all right I'll keep it in here and get some until we get and I will do the same thank you um all right we were through two George you have yeah but now we only have three remember well three in this area um okay George you had combined economic vitality andity and I just called it housing no I think you called it housing and economic Vitality fine that's all right do you like it or okay um and then you had so this is one where I do let's have the conversation again of um of the out objectives excuse me because I really like the specificity in the different objectives that we have that we have um oops oh my God every time so as a note we'd be these are all the things that we have in here this is George's proposed Mega objective these were the four that we had before let me zoom out a touch again I mean I'm just repeating what I've said but um essentially these are I think these areas are related and I think that um we need to focus on housing across the board of which obviously affordable housing is a key element but housing in general and that involves uh certainly approaching the university and ammer college um but those would be specific action items under the broad category of trying to provide uh greater diversity and and supply of housing both on the traditional affordable and just housing in general and that's key to our economic fality so I think these two are very closely related and I I think that the one statement is fine and then in the objectives we would specify things that we would like Paul and staff to do to um promote our economic vitality and also to address the housing issues the town faces and uh not just say affordable housing George I think that your statement does a really good job combining these three but it's missing this one and this one has been really important about working closely with the colleges the Commerce and Etc um that appears later in the document I think under um Partnerships and uh um I think that's where this can go and there might be some duplication here which may offend us but um I don't think this should be a separate um uh uh what do we call it objective it's um you know if you want to get yeah so that's my view I agree with it I think this is more like an activity what is this to work closely with the university Etc oh I don't think so at all because I think the words to work closely look different to all 13 of us um okay so George you would propose taking this it's fine taking this out of Housing and economic Vitality moving it to Partnerships yes yes yes at least that's and then maybe yeah go ahead initially what we had done was we combined this up it was initially its own goal area um was to work with local hire Ed institutions and we moved it up to say work with them for this purpose towards the purpose of economic Vitality um just context there Paul yeah I think the um I would just focus on the colleges and the university you have to mention Hampshire College they land they have more land and that's the one thing they can actually offer us I don't think the chamber Paul no offense man yeah I think the chamber in a bit I'm not sure exactly how they would contribute to this but um they don't belong yeah I agree yeah and but I think that this is as an action or something I think it's um one that's that should be articulated Out Loud by the by the council so let me ask the question what wait Paul sorry the last thing you said you do want that you think it's important to articulate that out loud yeah okay what action items would these are not in order right now these don't relate to an objective so what action items would go under this and we've talked about some years there may not be a specific action item it might just be go forth and do it and Paul this is at you but this is also to the rest of the committee as well so action items might be to identify specific Parcels that can be developed you know University and college own land that that has potential development possibilities or something like that like let's makes sense let's talk with them what's valuable what's available what we think is available what they think is available two different okay thank you that was helpful I think I think we get to the partial specific topic so I would propose keeping this one as two objectives and having it the first one be well okay I guess fine yeah we could we can move this down to community relations or whatever it's called um but that we'll still have two objectives in that category because this is what this is very different than the others so um why are you wed to this language um I mean it's first of all it's got this business about diverse neighborhoods oh I'm not wed to this language I'm I'm wed to the concept I'm not W to this Lang abely got you Agreed 100% And in this area we could as Paul suggested and I think I have in my document um and he says suggest parcel specific but I have meet with UMass and Amis College regarding housing meet with and we should add Hampshire um and we could add language to uh the effective identifying parcel specific uh uh you know meet with these entities and discuss the possible housing opportunities um so you have this under your community and strategic relationships as an action item actually it's under housing and economic Vitality oh you have it under community and strategic relationships too well yeah that's because I didn't sorry I Wasing wrong place so I didn't want to lose it Paul end up go ahead Paul George I'm sorry I didn't see it under your go go ahead Paul no he's got his hand down okay go ahead Lynn oh no she's got her hand down okay um I didn't I wasn't consistent in this part because I did not put in uh I just put George's um top part in let me put the action items in too really quick before we as we continue um Okay so um okay my question is is okay that this is fine are we only asking for a meeting are there specifics like Paul said that we'd want to strive for like identifying Parcels for development or you could begin with that phrase I mean especially with housing you could say uh identify appropriate Parcels or identify Parcels yeah yeah my gosh sorry Parcels for development um could be two yeah it could be two identify or you could the approach could be the town has identified I assume Paul has in mind they have some parcels in mind and they go to the relevant parties and they say what about x what about y another option is you just meet and you know both sides throw out some I don't know it's not it's not an easy complicated conversation it's going to take a long time but I think what the council is trying to say sounds like Paul would like the council to say something like this is please continue or please begin these conversations and and be as specific as possible related to uh Parcels that could become uh housing in Amis I was going to say we're saying possible Housing Development right yeah this is yeah this has to do I think that's gonna go over better um George I think that's good and I think uh and we want Hampshire colle yes you sure name is G do we is that the order I went by size um okay so the other things that we don't have in this version um zoning bylaws we okay yeah we talked about this being too up for interpretation propose revisions to zoning bylaws that increase and support Economic Development throughout Town um I I say cut it unless we're able to be more specific um does anyone else have thoughts on this there are um yeah there are areas of town right now for instance um East Village would be one where um the planning board has made some noises and certainly staff has suggested that the places that the town could look to do some zoning changes to promote greater density and housing they've already done that at udrive and that's in process but my thought was it wouldn't be inappropriate if seven of us at least agree to uh ask the manager to continue to encourage his planning department to pursue that line of thinking to look for areas in ammer like for instance East Village uh pomoy Village Center might be another um where with appr zoning changes um greater density of housing could be created and economic Vitality could be stimulated um so do we want to say in 2025 we want you to focus on the village centers more not not those exact words but like do we want to specify we're basically saying we'd like I mean I would be saying something to the effect that that that I would like uh Paul to instruct his the planning department to continue and and through them the uh the planning board to look at places like East Village Pomo Village Center um there are a couple of others that could but anyway um Paul I would not include Village centers because it could be you know I think we've talked about belter toown Road as one place that really you you drive it's not a Village Center so yes exactly yeah that's fair okay so look for areas in town that would that that would be appropriate for um you know zoning uh again I don't know what the term would be but um um we're basically talking about creating greater density of Greater housing density um and economic U you know mixed use development do we want how would you like to specify that ah I thought or do you want to leave this as it no no no seriously like do you want to specify that or do you want to leave this as is um because yeah don't you want to include housing yes oh yeah I definitely do thank you I guess um George I'm going to let you mle that because I've found a couple other things that we're I want to come back to here uh councelor and then I want to come back because we we've talked about deleting some of these up here so councel I was wondering if we removed the final bullet point from the work closely with yeah absolutely ask that because what what other option do we have you know I'm being I'm not being pricious you know what would it look like if we didn't work closely with the bid I agree and I think it's also in keeping with our other practice of saying if something is an ongoing practice we don't want to necessarily keep it in here um I had a couple thoughts on these first two so first was complete implementation of the rental registration bylaw is this the right wording um is that okay great um this though continue to explore the we've we've explored this we we've done the exploration there's bulldozers so can we refr well I don't know maybe they're front- end loaders but um should we specify continue the establishment or is there a specific goal we want them to get to by the end of the year I that doesn't always feel like it's completely in our control so I struggle with that one but I continue to prioritize The Establishment would bease have is continue to work towards the establishment I copied this from your thing no well I think what happened is that I went back through this okay and so I but this not your I'm not blaming you I'm just saying no no I was like I swear I did it right I reread this and I thought that's not right so continue to work towards the establishment of your own show I just want to Paul's made great strides he's done enormous amount and I think the council should just say we'd like you to continue we know there's going to be a huge funding chall but absolutely we we don't want you to stop um yep now this one I yeah I don't like this one because I don't feel that it's actionable I don't know what the town manager would do short of trying to pass which would be the council trying to pass a home rule petition for rent control I don't see what the measure is here um so me a technical meaning is that correct it's in other words it refers to what it's not just it's not regulation um Something official the council votes on but but really though this is like we're talking about incentivizing or things that might have significant budgetary implications so until we know unless we're saying Paul come with a I I guess that's what this is kind of saying but I don't know Paul is this a possible thing to ask I don't know what would you come up with I mean it would be certain question to pose um to our staff um but if we don't even know what it's saying why are we have why do we have it in here that's crazy I mean what it is yeah go ahead I mean so so for me I wanted to put in um develop a a first time home buyer down payment assistance program run through the town that for me was a specific thing that we might be able to do that um increases the option I mean I will but I it's it has budgetary implications it's something the council is going to have to debate and discuss there are options for how to run it but like that all right um just put it in so propose a or uh just saying propose it I'm not saying make it happen no that's yeah put it out there we'll see what people think um and then this one is the last thing that I wasn't this was a hold over from before review and revise um Town regulations to reduce barriers to opening an operating business in ammer Paul you're muted yeah I would suggest you add after regulations and put the words and practices I like it more then to be honest I like this now I didn't like it before but now I like it George again this is why I actually liked the one that has been stricken which is simply to I know these happen on a regular basis and what the council has simply say saying to Paul and to staff is to continue having regular conversations with the bid and the Chamber about these issues um and about other issues related to economic mentality so your point I guess and points of others is they already do this so we don't need to mention it again um and so fine but um I think this is still an area of of real concern to the business community and uh I would just like to encourage the conversation to continue not only about Economic Development in general but also about some of the challenges that our businesses face um in dealing with our procedures which um yeah I still hear it but that yeah yeah I think it's a good thing especially with a new planning director coming on board having this in in the goals is a important thing to have in Paul is it a given with this that you would work with the chamber in the bid or do you think that it would be beneficial to specify it but with other people too I mean we sure with coals and places like that too okay because George I think I your point is very well taken that we want them to the town to work with the chamber and the bid on things like this I don't think a goal of meet regularly with the chamber and the bid necessarily equates to this right I think that um again Paul I do this very much with not you in my head but I think about there could be someone who just says I check the box I meet with them weekly they don't talk about challenges to opening a business ideally they do but I that's why that specificity is important so I think that your point George is is well taken and and I don't know if this is that's kind of why I was asking is this a given or do we need to be more specific that this should be done the review should be done in conjunction with other entities well staff has t a number of steps it's in Paul's report and and they're all encouraging and maybe for the moment we just need to see how things play out um but they're series of things that that were done to try and address some of these issues um and I guess maybe I don't know what to say I mean we're waiting to see I mean it's gonna take time and uh um so I don't know I don't know how my colleagues feel maybe they just want to you know if this continues to be a problem then we can bring it back in um but I I do want to acknowledge that that Paul and staff have taken a number of steps to to address um some of the issues that that are related here um evolving barriers to opening and operating a business absolutely yeah so uh just repeating it seems not not appropriate because um they have in fact taken steps staff has done things um and uh so I don't want to repeat it I think I think they have revised and reviewed regulations and practices to I think that has been done um at least that's what Paul had put in his report and I think it's true um so I didn't want to repeat this um I just want to have them continue to meet and and as they do meet and talk with the business community um about these issues and keep the lines of communication open um and again maybe that's just a given um we don't need to do it but I'd like to St this box out I don't why we shouldn't be repeating something if it's already been done I think that's the question is this has this been done councelor ate that indeed is the question um and I think it can't ever really be done there's always more that could be done and going back to what was stricken there are other organizations that don't get mentioned that have a role to play I I I think of it almost like the award ceremony where you mention a few names when you win an award and then someone else says you know but I contributed um and so just living it to the fact that we can always have leasons with these different groups we already do that we can do more of that I think that is sufficient and should stay I also think it's a fair question sorry my M line I think it's a fair question of if we're saying review and revise that shouldn't happen every single year right if we are truly meaning go through your policies and practices and revise them that's in every couple year thing right and but we expect that it happen that year I think that's better practice too and so this year we're saying look at Public Safety protocols this year and really focus there next year we say something else I I think that's fair to take this out um to to Georgia's point for for this year and say this is not where we're want to focus intensively this year George your hand so a new health inspector has been appointed there new procedures to facilitate Clarity efficiency and predictability of inspections and Licensing they've expanded administrative approval process to expedite U these kinds of things and in response to Dei um they and are partnering with the bid in the chamber to host workshops for new businesses and Institute a process to fill facilitate the inspection process etc etc so in Paul's report a whole series of actions have been taken uh to address this and unless the council's asking him to do more in this area and they have some specific ideas as to what he's supposed to do I don't see how repeating this is going to be helpful to Paul or to his staff um okay so I would say it comes out look at that um Mandy had two other ones sorry I know we're getting a little bit jumbly here um let me see if I can delete a row without everything I'm just I'm not going to risk it sorry uh we are taking this out right because we've decided we like this right objective just confirming before I do it um do we sorry to interrupt as set forth in the council's comprehensive is that necessary you have it in here I have it italicized because I wanted to remind myself I had want to remind myself that this is really I'm going trying to keep this as short as possible is this is this truly informative uh and necessary I don't know it's a question I don't know I believe it is I think so too the way the car that's fine then take out the and it's the only the only edit George I would want to add affordable and attainable um to your your um okay okay I had no problem with that um okay then I'm going to delete this so it's not confusing me later and delete you can take out the italics if You' like if you have a moment okay though I wonder how many you've actually read the entirety of the council's confer I actually have it's been a minute but I did read the whole darn thing I did it was in did you write it maybe you were involved in writing I was not involved in writing it I was building a dog park at the time George okay um so really important stuff um Mandy had added two extra ones here wanted to just make sure that folks had seen so propose changes to the Adu zoning regulations to bring them into compliance with state law and propose revisions to the zoning bylaws that would reduce the cost of developing permitting and building two to six units of housing on parcels and ammer I'm going to go with this first one feels like an easy wi yes we have to do this so we should put this in here uh I would agree with that however this one is going to be really fun discussion at Council so on the one hand we can keep this in here because counselor a counselor proposed it and it should go to council to be discussed that's kind of my stance on it but I'd like this committee to discuss if how it's framed here makes sense not logically of course logically it makes sense Mandy logically makes sense but is is this what we've been going for in terms of actionable Etc Lynn I again I just feel like it's too specific it doesn't mean that it's not a way of getting to part of the goal or the goal but it's like is this the only thing it's a thing Lyn I know it's the only thing one way to get there and short of just saying something very generic and anod about you know G try to create some more affordable housing which you know that doesn't mean anything this is a specific proposal that may die on the vine for all we know but it's at least something that the council can sink its teeth into I think Mandy also is doing our work for us because what we wrote as a committee in the last meeting uh when we talked about proo propose revisions to zoning bylaws that increase and support economic and Housing Development throughout the town we said we need to be more specific and so I think Mandy was more specific so I I'm fine leaving this here I it is specific and I think that's what the council needs to discuss but otherwise we're saying to Paul propose something it might get shot down so we need to just yeah sorry ly I think I think the thing that catches me up is when you start saying two to six units of housing blah blah blah just propose revisions to the zoning bylaws that would reduce the cost of developing permitting and building housing I think Lyn she's thinking of duplexes triplexes I understand that so that's what yeah but I just not about single family or two family and it's not about large multiplexes multi family it's taking out units right taking out the unit number changes the meaning of the sentence completely and I think that's the issue right is is proposed revisions to the zoning bylaws that reduce the cost of developing permitting and building housing is not the same as addressing missing middle Housing Development potential I would leave the increased middle the whole thing of addressing middle housing in I I maybe it's I mean I'm forget it it doesn't matter I kind of think we should have the debate at the council level instead of having something vague and then having it spin around in CRC for 18 months again well M immediately and say what happened to my language no no she I would too I would say what happened to my language right Fair okay uh counc I think uh lean's position is a fair one which is that what we're looking at our revisions to the zoning bylaws in ways that would actually um increase the potential for the missing mle and so if that's the case we don't need to constrict the options that are available and so we this is one but it doesn't have to be the only one and so by taking it out that leaves room for the discussion robust however it may be when we decide to have it but putting it in here means that we'll be discussing this one thing and that would exclude every other thing that could possibly be discussed right here's my issue with this we know that this issue is very political in the town of ammer right how many housing units you have on a lot is super political if we and we know that this is a legitimate strategy a main legitimate strategy to increasing missing middle Housing Development potential if we do not include this level of specificity and I'm inclined to agree with George that I think Mandy put this in here and and I want to respect that too but if we do not include this level of specificity we're essentially punting that political problem over to our town staff and saying you have to pitch something that we know is going to be controversial at Council I think that if this is what we're looking for I don't know I I guess I don't I if this is what councilors want to see done try to get it in the goals and if seven people vote for it seven people vote for it councelor would it be any less controversial because we've put in the 2 to six units no it's wait what do you mean like would it be less controversial if we said yeah you you um had mentioned that we would be pting to town staff and I'm saying just the discussion regardless of what else we put into this text already makes it political but but if we oh sorry um so so um I I don't know if keeping it in helps if we really want to have this conversation and we will find a way to have it in any case my point was if we just say propose zoning bylaws that address missing middle we are asking Town staff to come up with a solution that is gonna anger one one part of the council or another whereas if we say to town staff we want you to write this policy that does this thing then we're not we're kind of taking away their choice in that right like we're saying this is the strategy we want you to pursue versus find us a strategy because it's the strategy that's that's going to be the big debate so I don't know I I don't know that this will get through Council I don't have a problem with it being in here George putting something in here doesn't mean we approve of it there are things in here that I probably will not approve of it's just these are things that you know we feel that the council should look at and and make a decision and this is one of them this doesn't mean that you personally would vote for this you would perhaps in the discussion either vote against it or act try to amend it um so I don't think we should get too much into the all right I'm inclined to agree and but if there's strong objection I'm I'm happy to hear it I I think we should keep it in here because I did specifically say to counselor send me action items you want included um are we ready to move on maybe keeping an eye on time okay so we um there's a couple things that were put in under racial Justice that we haven't discussed yet and so I wanted to just T touch on those so um there was Mandy had added in an objective uh incorporate input from bipo lgbtq plus and other marginalized communities and appropriate Town committees when reviewing and revising policies and regulations um as an objective and the one of the action items was create an appoint an advisory Council similar to the Northampton youth advisory Council which I think is a really interesting idea um so let's touch let's talk about the objective first um as a reminder let me just move this up sorry Place yeah all right so the I'm not sure about the objective in so far as I think from the town manager's point of view or from the town it would already say that this is being done so I don't know about the objective that is to incorporate input from bipo and um other communities with regard to The Advisory Council I think I could say that there is already a move in that direction um or at least some of those ideas are already being floated and so um I think that is something that definitely could be in the action item Paul do you have any thoughts on this one I I will say counc I don't have as much of an objection to things being kind of ongoing in the objective area as I do in the action area right so for me objectives kind of probably are ongoing um this is a bit specific for an objective um but I'll I'll defer to everybody else so so what would this look like how would I no I did this right so so this is the broad area what this is saying is that to work towards that objective this year you would create an appoint and advisory Council okay yeah that's kind of what we're saying rightly it's like these are the actions we're asking this year to work towards this objective Council but what I read is actually that the objective and the action items are quite different because one is more like a youth advisory Council and the order is um different groups I didn't I didn't actually connect one to the other is yeah yeah yeah yeah no I see what you're saying I see what you're saying um councelor Ryan I do see what you're saying councelor I don't have a solution for you yet but I'm gonna think on it I I this really sticks out like a sort of thumb compared to all the other objective categories and it cries out for an an explanation or some kind of rationale it seems if there are particular issues related to the health and safety um uh or issues of social justice related to these communities they should be addressed in specific objectives in that third column because we are all we are our commitment is to the health and safety and and and equity and Justice of all our citizens um and so if there's something specific that people have in mind um then it should be in the objective column I don't think this language belongs here so what I'm going to do for now is I'm going to move the I'm going to keep the creating a point um two action items because that is a very specific action item um oh no and then I will uh I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has trouble with this not especially one someone far younger than I I feel like okay I'm not completely I'm just it's just going to stay that way it's we've hit past 8:00 it's just staying the way it goes um the just let me do what I want to do okay uh right this is to be honest with you if our objectives had stayed the way that they were going which we all know I liked more but it's fine democracy uh this wouldn't be that far from an objective our objectives have broadened significantly um and so I do agree that this is not in keeping with the other objectives um what I would say is that if this was a concern that a counselor had we could this could be reframed to be you know outlined specifically how the town manager takes input from blah like different communities or whatever it is um I don't necessarily feel the need to do that right now because I think that this counselor's goal was this um specific action item councilor Ryan um so yes I um if if this could be turned in if if you see this as this this sentence as being captured by the action item that currently is there create an appoint an advisory Council um if not then another action item that you feel would capture this the best would be appropriate um I'm going to expose my ignorance here I'm not aware of the Northampton youth advisory council could someone very briefly help me understand what it is is and what it does they just reached out to us recently because they I don't Know full specifics I can send you some information but um they did just reach out to uh I don't know who but I got an email from them um asking us if we'd be interested in um adding to a video they're making to send to this uh governor's office regarding um Chapter 70 funding so I think that they they work closely with the Northampton city council or the mayor I'm not sure which one um yeah but yeah they're not associated particularly with bipo or lgbtq plus theirs I do not believe are specific that is a broad youth committee yes okay all right thank councilor that exactly was what I was pointing to in terms of the connection one the other but in also looking at this language to incorporate implies a a stronger connection than necessary and this is something we already run into with some of the Committees that exist in town that is um at at what point does advice become some kind of mandate and so to I think it's slippery language we can change the language um or let's take it out I'm not seeing any strong voices for keeping it and I think that we've put in some interesting language here I think that if if we choose to make this into an action item later uh at the council we can any objections to continuing on okay uh we've got all of the nope not deleting that that's what we just did okay hey guess what we got through our three Paul any thoughts so far before we get into ad Administration and Leadership no I think you're making good progress I think thanks he's a kind soul he's a he's a kind soul uh Paul I'm gonna put a new goal for you is be meaner to to the council um all right so George did you do absolutely of course you did of course I did killing me man all right I'm sorry it's okay um effective ly and appropriately administer the operations and finances of town pursuant to home Rule Charter comma ensure the town's strong financial and fiscal Health comma and effectively develop supervise and manage the town's Workforce Administration and Leadership one goal and one objective it was always one goal in my defense that's correct um no actually we well anyway right right good we had already combined and it's it's a suggestion obviously I yeah but that's what I did and then in the objectives are a series of items that relate to those not right in in in some sense and it looks like some excellent some suggestions here from you and from Andy yeah okay so yeah I mean I guess it really depends on sort of the direction that again the direction the committee wants to go I prefer the objectives to be a bit more specific because I think it helps us to clarify our action items um otherwise it feels hodg pody but uh I think if we're going to combine Administration and Leadership we should have a sentence that articulates what that means and that's what this sentence does where did it go yeah and and I don't see how breaking it out is is really all that helpful um they're all there and then under the action items are elements that highlight certain aspects of it and they don't have to have a onetoone correspondence because there may be areas of administra ation leadership where we don't have any particular action items for Paul maybe they'll all be in one area but um I don't think it it's yeah again just for the sake of of clarity and and yeah anyway it's there so we've lost the the only thing that's missing from the um the objectives that we had before was Foster a proactive anti-racist culture throughout all Town departments and I think that would be probably if if we think it's appropriate under an action item I disagree because we again that's such a broad area um that I think that there needs to be that's not actionable right like there's there's too many ways that actions could be taken that aren't what people wanted right um what what different people on The ccil Wanted I think it's too up for interpretation so and I say that because we went for hours on this topic in in past meetings um I think last year around the goals it was offering training is it offer like what does it look like and people had very specific expectations and I think that if people have specific expectations we can't leave a broad area um no no what I mean is like it's it's not fair to say a broad goal and if someone has something specific in mind because the town manager might do it in otherwise so my dog came up to me started snorting um and distracting me a little bit but I I I think that developing an anti-racist culture is such a massive concept that it's much more of an objective than an action item there are action items you take towards developing that culture but developing a culture in it in and of itself is not an action item I mean George what like what would achieving that look like to you what would achieving what look like to me if you're saying the action item is Foster proactive anti-racist culture throughout all departments I think specific you'd have to give specific um statements as to what what you mean by that I mean it just it again it seems like one of these you know Wonderful broad statements that doesn't really mean anything unless you have something specific in mind like a set of trainings or a you know I mean we have a whole host of things earlier that address training and and bylaws Etc now we have so again I would just ask what does this mean in concrete I think we're creating a culture I you know yeah George I get you that's that I think we're saying the same thing right is is my point is as written I cannot in good conscience put it as an action item because it's not actionable I'm not encouraging you to put it as an action item I know but I will say that I do do think that it's helpful to be in here as part of the objective um because I think that we should have that conversation at the council level of if it's an objective what is the council expecting gets done towards that Lyn I to me it goes under act the actions and it said it includes things like through training and mentoring or whatever we want to say but um anyway that's my opinion okay councelor oops go ahead Paul so I think if you want to get a spe very specific thing you could say something like um incorporate um anti-racism Concepts on or onboarding processes for new employees that's how you might be a way to begin yeah an action item ill as an action item realiz that goal yep but yeah go ahead sorry but it's nowhere in the objective so it feels a little out of the blue that's that's all I'm saying um I think that this is going to be a big topic of conversation just as a as a precursor I would encourage us to figure out how to put that framing into the objective we don't have to but that would be what I encourage um so would that be under Administration and Leadership would it be under yes because it's specific to to town employees and workplace culture um what is this F good that this is the place it should be that is correct yeah ination of um can we I mean you don't want to just add another comma that says Foster well you could it's a basically as you said it has to do with managing the workforce supervising and managing the workforce it doesn't have to do with operations and finances it doesn't really have to do with financial and physical health it has to do with how um Paul and his staff develop and supervise and manage their Workforce and so you could have something there to the effect of you know effectively develop supervisor manage the town's Workforce um in light of our commitment to or you know uh but some yes you could add something there I'm not sure it has to be a comma but it could be um uh and I don't I forget now what the the phrase is that you that you're trying to place in here but that's where it would go it go at the end here and um uh maybe if you just write yeah just write the if we have it there I think we could just say incorporate an yeah oh sorry sorry you skipped for a second drudge what did you say keep going I think we could please to get at that sorry hang on one second so just take the including out and just have a comma okay is what I would suggest fostering a proactive anti-racist culture throughout Town departments okay that that I think you could you could do okay um all right let me um all right let's talk through the action items here uh you had maintain a improve I think we had had was that what we had before can't remember I think it's taken from the original document yeah it is I'm not I'm not sure what it really says to Paul that that's informative what we had changed yeah I I think there was the reason why we had moved this eventually to be an objective was because it was really broad um so initially in the objectives we had maintain essential Municipal services and improve the delivery of services to Residents and businesses and then we were going to discuss whether there was a specific action item um I think that's why that that was I I like that objective so I I think I I but I don't know specifically what the actionable item would be yeah if we don't know anything specifically actionable why are we putting it in here I mean it doesn't all a damn thing I mean he does this every day if there's something specific that we want him to focus on related to delivery of Municipal Services um um or if we want something want him to improve something specifically we should mention it here otherwise he's yeah I don't see the point of this Len I think either way on this but I do think that this this is where in um you know for instance in Paul's annual performance evaluation to us he talked about the various things that we've done to improve local government you know with more online services ET so I to me that's what that means and it's an opportunity to talk about that ongoing thing what I want to avoid is again people for some reason expecting Paul to do something that the council never never charged him with and than being mad that he didn't do it uh and so so Lynn I I get your point and I want Paul to be able to talk about that but where I think we slip up is if people say yes but he didn't do this one thing that I specifically wanted him to do therefore and I know I'm getting back to the evaluation again but I that I think actually does pertain to the goals right if people are expecting something to change so is there something is there something that the five of us feel that needs to be improved or added or changed I can't or Paul is there something you're planning on focusing on so I think the thing that would resonate with the council is um being more responsive to pothole complaints something like that if you want to get really specific yeah and I think that's yeah would set well with my district no I think it's oh your District just you know just actually maybe what it should be is that the the council would agree that we should regularly George I swear if you're going to say something I'm going to get mad at that's all right it's okay um that we should every year we should commit to making a substantial contribution to uh roads and sidewalks and the schools yeah no the schools is something else that's a different issue it's not here oh I'm going to propose a whole new goal area whole new goal area of schools um I don't want Pooles in here I'm sorry I appreciate Paul's comments but I don't want Pooles in here um it should be roads and sidewalks or something like that or just leave it out let's just leave it we'll just leave it okay um review the organizational structure put it in it all right this is um yeah this is uh this is rooted I don't know how much detail we want to get into because it's pretty vague as it's stated here I don't know if anyone has a sense of what this is about um some of us have a feeling that um the the amount of Demands that are made on the town manager are so great that there are things that he simply cannot deal with because he lacks um sufficient staff support and I think he's probably said on more than one occasion that he's he's fine but um I personally don't believe that um and I think that I would like us to I'd like the manager or someone to look at the um our organizational structure and the distribution of responsibilities um and just yeah that's that's no I agree yeah but I don't think this phrases it right but and I'm not sure that Paul would be very sympathetic to it but um uh my feeling is that we need to think we need to look at the very top level and and the kinds of Demands we're making on our chief executive and whether we have sufficient people uh there to to for him to actually do all the things he's asked to do that's I guess what's behind this um I'm I'm I like it I I think it's good um is that do you think it says that I do think it says that my only issue with the George was are we asking the town manager to just review it himself and kind of provide a self reflection or like that would be my that would be my concern um maybe this is something for the council as a something it needs to do and it's really not something we can reasonably ask Paul to do um that's yeah that may be the issue Paul uh Paul then Lynn so I think this is the type of thing if you want to see this it might be if there's a consultant that's needed you'd see a capital request for consultant to a capital request would be that kind of approach rather than yeah we're like an organizational consultant yeah makes L that's all I was gonna say okay put there so I don't forget it I won't for require consultant so that should come out that should come out all right fine it as a no got it certainly um we just did a pay scale Study last year um that is not about this this is about and again again it's just um I'm worri I'm thinking about or concerned about what we pay non what we pay our unionized employees um and our competitiveness with with neighboring towns and you know I understand these are union contracts and are negotiated um but I assume that there are pay scales that that apply and I guess my I I hear stories of people going off to other neighboring towns where they can make better pay doing the same job with less stress now maybe that's just the usual stories everybody tells but I have absolutely no idea how we stand um with relative to other towns in in the region in terms of paying people like DPW and and conservation or whatever just the the folks who do the the everyday work of town where unionized um not fire not police so much but but the other staff and that's what this is supposed to be trying to State I know we did a study about non-un employees and that's been done and uh this is about the other employes and uh are we doing our our pay scales our pay levels enough to make us uh competitive and I just would like to know and maybe again that's something I can get an answer to elsewhere but that's why that's here Paul yeah I mean so most of the employees that you're talking about are unionized employees the way they come we can't pay them more than what the Union contract says that's illegal um if the union doesn't agree to increase these wages which they often don't because there's an e and there the Dynamics within a union are different right um and I think that that's you know you know increasing pay is really not a council prerogative and there some some employees unionized and not have feel feel empowered in to contact the council directly and to plead their case right which creates a different Dynamic that's going on you know thank you for clarifying um well again I mean yeah so for those of us who worry that that this is happening has sorry I know I know finish my thought and then thetha can speak as the chair I will tell you George finish your thought and then I will a call on Athena thank you pull it together folks thank you um so that's that's a concern I have and again this might not be the way to get an answer to it but um I'm concerned about our competitiveness um among certain parts of our Workforce and um where we stand with Visa other towns Athena hi thanks we're concerned about our competitiveness too and I think what the conversations that Paul and I have had about strategic planning for our Workforce are more about our employee development and retention and some plans in that way so there's only so much we can do financially but I think we're exploring other options to retain and develop employees and and U make am an attractive and happy place to work for our current and future employees so um I appreciate Athena saying that it's what Athena said happens to also launch itself squarely into what I do for for work um and I I think that that point is really well taken of what is within our sphere of control and Mandy had put in something really excellent down here which is talking about Continuing Education and Leadership training as well as um one other opportunity that I think we could include in that statement is supervisory and management training um for for folks who supervise others so we know salary goes so far and is only so controllable but a big reason people leave jobs is salary but it's also supervision right and so I think that if we could build in other elements that could support and kind of give Paul the the go-ahead to say we really want you to focus on this on on some things this year um as it pertains to other opportunities for for this for staff that might support that retention um and recruitment I think this would be a good place to to put those but I George I I don't know that this is going to get at what or maybe it is maybe it is like through but take out pay scale competitiveness maybe this is because I think this not ensuring all Town staff are offered and have access to continuing ad and Leadership training unless there's a structure and a system set up already for them to do that that's a huge lift but I think that what we could say is and I guess this is kind of a question for Athena and Paul you're talking about strategic Workforce Development is it a matter of we want you to put really good time in this year towards creating that strategic plan for Workforce Development towards creating and um learning the the structure for learning opportunities for staff does that already exist or would it would a good goal be ensure that this exists or would a good goal be plan for this to exist to help address or help make a ammer town of armmer a great place to work so exists um to a certain degree and it's um based on opportunities available that we can take advantage of the mma's developed a lot more leadership programs and and things like that um I I would hesitate to say ensure all Town staff are offered because it's impossible like the senior center is going to be closed tomorrow because our directors at you know for a lot of different reasons but she's in a 26 week training program so is one of the reasons um so I think um we're we're on board on this you know trying to develop opportunities for people to get leadership training and supervisory training it's not cheap that's the only thing uh Athena I'm gonna say strategic again because um we what we've talked about and Paul I hope you'll correct me if I'm misstating our conversations but is to be really deliberate about where we're pointing those efforts in terms of um planning for the future where we're seeing folks getting ready to retire and looking at developing our bench strength and so on so we want to be really targeted about um looking at the possibilities for the employees who we know see a future in the town and working with them to make sure that they are supported and developed and um and that's that's just part of the recruitment retention and development plan that we're working on um but I I think saying everybody is unachievable and yeah what we're trying to do is um be strategic and mindful about where we're going and plan for the future just like we do for a capital looking at our work Workforce as a town resource and planning ahead for that just like we do financially so this isn't a strategy or a uh initiative that's coming um from within which is great and it doesn't sound like I certainly have anything better to offer my focus as was clear I think from the way I worded this had to do with simply with pay and I'm being told that that's really either outside of our area or it's and other things are being done and I accept that I understand that and it's coming from within so I don't see any point in having this actually the first three bullet points probably should be taken out um because the first one I think we agreed doesn't really say anything um unless we want to get specific and we don't the second one um is clearly something that the Cil needs to ponder and if it's willing to if it's serious about it it has its own way of of of acting on that it has nothing to do with Paul or his goals and the third one is is an in-house operation that is is being pursued by staff and by Paul and um I don't know anything about it other than what I'm being told and so that shouldn't be here either um which is fine yeah you think the third one should be here I think all three should be go doesn't mean anything we just talked about it it means stuff and in addition to that remember this is an area in which for very good reasons we have less knowledge about because it's under the management of the Town manager and so if the town manager and his staff in this case Athena are telling us some things to put in here I think that's what we need to be listening to thank you councilor if we are looking for things to take out I was thinking to final bullet point ensure 100% fully utilize yeah I didn't want to just do it without talking about it first yeah all right so George I do want to keep as I I do want to keep these because I think um this is again if we think about this as The Guiding document for how we want the town manager to prioritize his and his staff's time in the coming year I think these are really valid and very important Pursuits um these two specific right uh and and this one I think what we've talked about is this gives the opportunity for the town manager to determine what which areas are going to continue to improve in a given year and we may not know that right now um but I do think that these are also not the policy goals right these are the administrative goals or the management goals and and it makes sense like Lynn said that we wouldn't know all the ins and outs um but I think also because of that this particular one makes sense for Paul to do first and then for the council to discuss after Athena I I would appreciate having it in the goals both both of those points because it the goals tell us how to prioritize our time and and Paul and I having a conversation is one thing but the council is saying that we agree with that conversation and we want you to move that forward we'll help tell us that um that it's important to you and then we can report on our achievements at the end of the year because they are your achievements too but if you take it out then it's just something that we're doing that doesn't necessarily um it it isn't reflected in that that Council goal discussion so I would appreciate it being left in I think the first point also sorry the first point also I mean talking about exploring efficiencies and stuff is something that I think is it goes in is part of that conversation um so I think both of those points are important to leave in but just my two sents thank you thank you we've got a couple I'm I'm keeping an eye on time we've got some other things to discuss and I we we need to finish this so I want to just talk through there's a couple more uh things that Mandy put in that I want to debate not debate discuss we can keep these all in for discussion of the council there are a couple I absolutely do not think are actionable um like speed up the hiring process for vacant positions I don't think that that I would assume Paul that you're doing everything that you can to go as fast as you can here um obviously we want that sped up as much as possible but um sorry I'm going to start at the top we moved this under the strategic planning I won't do it until I tell you about it sorry uh we moved this under strategic options was talking about the possibility of exploring learning opportunities um the next one that Mandy said was undertake a review of salary and supervisory responsibilities to ensure that there's no gender bias in salaries promotions or job responsibilities this is a biggie um I I think this is one that the council could discuss but Paul I wanted to hear from you on if this is feasible um from your perspective which one again uh sorry under I just talked so fast Undertaker review of salary and supervisory responsibilities to ensure there is no gender bias and salaries promotions or Dr when we did the class paying class study that was includ included in that and that was actually one of the big topics for conversations with the uh okay HR Director all right so I'm gonna I'm gonna take this out oh gosh Athena I might need a recording of this meeting to be able to write the report if that's possible because I this is so much um speed up hiring process for vacant positions again Paul this feasible well I I mean we do it in the sometimes it's just not possible I mean yeah and I mean the the charter dictates the time for department heads and which is six months um you know with planning director we were just talking about today that you know it's kind of a nothing the biggest pool in the world and so I think we're challenged by getting recruit you know do we go out and recruit more often you know more aggressively it's a hard market so I don't know what what we would do to speed it up other than make um irresponsible decisions fair um okay yeah any objections to me taking this out okay um this next one I do not like how it's worded but I like the Spirit of it uh I think that this is one Paul I'm curious about your plans with your you've got a new communications director who's doing a great job this to me feels like it's asking for a um almost like a triage map right like a I need help with this go here it's almost like a dashboard I don't know what form it takes but I I think that that's to to me that's what this reads like it's getting some clearer messaging for Resident assistance and I'm not opposed to that um as a goal but I wanted it's definitely a very clear directive so I wanted to check in with the committee and with you um councilor Ryan at least in part this is TPC do you know what TPC is no transportation and parking commission part of what the goal of that is is to address this in an area where a lot not all by any means but a lot of the complaints and and and frustration come dealing with areas related to parking and transportation so if we finally do create that body I think that will address some of this I think um other than that I mean we already have all kinds of ways people can you know see click works really well ways in which people can communicate um but the biggest area I think where there is confusion and um you know some frustration deal with issues related transportation and parking so I hope that in the next uh six months to a year at the most we'll have a body that will address that George I see this is actually broader than that I'm not oh sorry um I don't know if George is cutting in or out if I am but uh I I actually see this as broader than I know it covers more ground than that but yeah I'd like to go have a um it's no it's more of being like you have an issue with any of this laundry list of things you go talk to the transportation and parking commission you have an issue with um you know a wetland that you need to build a porch on you talk to conom like that kind of thing versus I I see your point and I think that will help but I think this is almost zoomed out communications director I see it as a Communications all right project but but Paul I want to hear from you yeah I think I think I think it's a good goal in terms of helping at least on our website and for the counselors to say here's how you go to get resolution some you know some communities have had you know one called a city hall where you call one number and they they triage it right and right time um you know I mean a lot of the times the complaint isn't I don't know who to call it's like I didn't I don't like the answer I got they didn't say yes right away and I think that that's something we you know that's you're always goingon to have to deal with that a whole different issue yeah Fair uh I just changed this slightly to be determine a method by which um instead of ensure that or whatever it said before um basically saying find the solution to this not yeah I don't know meaning it should be like a tangible thing councelor ete so I actually appreciate that you took out in show um but there's another word hanging which is clearly what would be clear enough for the public and who gets I think that's fair thank you we want we want Paul and his staff in the coming year to work on this I think that's a good goal uh okay I'm yeah okay um George I'm really I just really enjoy being on a committee with you um that was sincere genuinely I do um that makes all right last did you say that makes one of us um inure ouch Ure Town Department are not duplicating Services of a similar nature this feels so big and Broad and impossible to me I I don't Paul please do this generally but like I I don't think that this is aable particular reference that we can exactly there's no comment it's this was just been just make it so make it go away okay um oh my God I'm afraid yeah I know I know yeah I I'm I'm starting to lose it gang no it's okay I think um well I think we're all been at it a long time yeah yeah we're close but we're not close so a lot of these are really we can kind of bunch these do we want to say that Paul we specifically took out items like this we specifically took out propose a balanced fiscal year 25 budget and we thought that that was kind of implied yes um yes so do we want to keep that as our rule so not include this we this was in here and we took it out it should come out I think great um similarly make sure fees like this is all I think we took out the specificity of the charter Mandy put it back in done um same here this was something from the chart did we pick up what George suggested yeah it was we already covered it oh no management goals sorry this is still financial goals we're about to move into the last one these are Mandy's other people these are M's yeah so that was it for um Administration and Leadership last one last one gang George you had infrastructure management uh that's it and land stewardship yes and land stewardship um and the language was of the objective was you maintain and manage the Count's capital and Public public assets right so you took out the objective on uh major Capital yes exactly that now we felt I think we all agreed it should go under the general you know right that should just be an action item under this larger category um so this is one of the things that we would take out because it's a charter given no um so what George you had in here no this this is Mandy no no no I'm pulling it sorry yeah um pulling yours over we're almost there we're almost there gang um I'm going to delete the things that you had crossed out okay continue to make progress on the four major capital building Investments um I actually think I like Mandy's edits here she was really specific on what progress she'd like to see made um I I would i' like these I would rather have these um I think that there's a recognition that things shift and change but personally I think I like the specifics Paul we're gonna start with one building committee not not just like we had previously yeah okay so DPW is that right or it's formed a DPW fire yeah single committee sorry sorry sorry yeah okay so let me well that mean yeah okay well okay I would say to appoint a building committee friends s to you know make progress with the fire and DPW buildings to make progress yes the fire and tpw build right good okay um then specified get rid of a lot of the other stuff under that then what no no what i c not yet not yet hang on so so the other three things that Mandy had present schematic designs for the DPW with cost estimates goal of going out to bidden and should that be calendar year no I think calendar year it took me a second right um sign a contract and break ground and sign a contract and break ground okay I personally am will say I I prefer that specificity to just make progress fine um but but I don't have total control over the Jones Library project okay that's fair so with the news today I think we'll be move we'll be signing a contract really soon for the elementary school right but do should I just take it this I could change this to seek to or something instead of an absolute or work with the trustees to try to get this um I don't know how to phrase it yeah what's the problem here um well we might not get through the section 106 process yeah and uh you know all of other things could happen too but um your thought is because that's still on outstanding we should not the council should not have as a goal for this year to uh I think Town manager goals are goals that the town manager can accomplish yeah should we can we put in something that says continue to work with the Jones Library Board of Trustees um I gota I my brain's to the point where I have to write it uh um I think so the the debate within the council is going to be wait a minute there's not enough money raised on the other side of the Ledger um the non- toown side so you shouldn't sign a contract that's that's going to be an issue that will come up to the council so I think being definite about if this is a goal that you want this build I think I'm just rethinking what you know maybe it is to be more very specific about sign a contract and break ground that's the language I would like and if people want to raise objections to it they can at the council can I keep this first part or do you just want the second part I deleted it sorry sorry cuz Paul would be the one signing the contract so yes so it would make sense to just keep the second part all right George we had renovation of the senior center different category so I think we can take that out I don't think that we need this was a request yeah okay all right no no no say say that go ahead that and I don't know where I I got it and maybe I'm it's me but I The Five-Year Capital plan to CIP um now has to be rethought in terms of the in in in in context with the larger Finance plan that we now have other they were in last year's uh goals that's what I thought so now it's a $3 million a year Capital CIP right and given our the finance plan that we've been presented all four options have a very specific number for for Capital uh it's the same number for all four plants and the question was raised how does the fiveyear CIP work in light of that okay yeah let's keep it in so well that's the thought no I think that's that's wise um this one feels like one of those ongoing things that we should take out okay it was maintain the inventory Lynn yeah um propose a plan to develop options for disposition of public private development of town-owned unused properties George did you put this in it was last year it was in last year's yeah and it's ongoing and we're still waiting I think Paul can speak to this but I think it's ongoing Paul is this worth is this in your mind a worthy goal it's fine yeah we can have that on okay um I really want this one in here uh maintaining the list of future Road and sidewalk repairs MH um I I do want to say annually though go ahead I think regularly that's how we do it I can't spell annually right now is that right that's pretty close that's close looks like there were too many letters um assess the current condition of the wastewater treatment plant so yeah there's concern about that particular facility and and we just I think there's a desire to have a sense of where it stands and what the plan is okay last last one kidding I'm not kidding all right Lang and on on in addition to assessing the current condition of the wastewater treatment plant uhuh somewhere in here I'd like to stress that we come up with a cost of joining our systems it's it's all about you know like Leverett wants to build this you know big new complex but they want to come into our water and sewer y yep yep yep yep Iden ify I am still awake but barely I know I me too I'm trying doing great one resolution one resolution uh just cost to the town of amorist uh when it I'm not just what is the U enjoining I don't even know what's being identify the cost to out municipalities when connecting to R of outside municipalities when connecting to our water well Sewer and Water Systems I guess by that do you mean um how much we're going to charge them or I mean we don't care how much it cost them that's their the initial the initial cost identify it should be of not to yeah Paul yeah I would say propose an entry fee or uh that makes because the cost might be different than you want to charge as an entry fee for outside municipalities when connecting to the town of Am SE systems yeah yeah that's fine okay okay thank you um thank you uh okay last lordy lordy okay George you had community and strategic relationships and they did your outcome was to maintain develop and increase positive relationships and Communications with the Town Council residents and local and state entities I know I'm trying to copy and paste it okay so this was Georgia's I like it you like it because it's nine what is it 902 no I like it because I like it no I know yeah no I think this is fine all right well anyways it's to desire however foolish to put each of these into a single I know I don't like it but it's fine Paul sorry Paul is your hand still up or is that a linger old one he's too tired to even take his hand down it's that's okay he took his hand um m Joe had something Implement a system of two-way communication for issues I don't know that this is within our control I don't want to put this in here um I agree do we have to keep it in there because we kept the other things in there even if we didn't agree with them and she just I guess Paul is this feels like a software question not a not a goal yeah it's a pretty um it's two-way system I don't even know what it means sorry I don't know why the funk this is all so funky but um maybe I can fix we already have a two-way system we already have a two-way system it's just lot of comp to it because so take it out and if she wants it she can bring it up provide appropriate support for Council committees this is this is that yes they do a great job for that I think all of these yeah these are all these all need to meet with each counselor individually at least twice a year is no but I don't I think that should just okay okay okay okay I right all right don't get chippy with me I didn't write it all right um these are going to go away I know um it's just going to yell at me if I try to delete them now George you have done some great work that I will now copy and paste over hang on stand by yeah I put it a lot here I'm sorry no you're fine a lot of it's crossed out I'm just assuming we just delete all of that right uh that's what I'm suggesting but we have to look at it I mean again this is kind of boiler plate I don't know I don't know what this means but it's yeah I mean Paul already does this and uh staff does it and I don't know um basically just gives us an opportunity to tell us what he does yeah which is good I mean you know um I don't know Paul have you implemented the plan for community visioning did we do that sorry I can't have any more documents open what' you say uh well yeah that's what uh Pamela the Dei Department's doing right great they're Ina they're not creating it they're doing it so it's called The Beloved Community stuff yes yes yes yes thank you um um okay this uh I'm comfortable because we have the other action item above about Fleet transitions that's the only reason I'm okay getting rid of this I would like it well I guess is the dashboard no the dashboard does this okay um re-evaluate committee charges this is cold did we write that before to ensure they're contributing to the municipality that's so cold I um oh this wasn't and then you took it out right so this is her two-way thing right yeah but it was it was in you put it in yours uh but I struck it out yeah you did um I I think Paul does this already I don't think it's needed the next one oh you know what's making my day is some of these are duplicates okay um assist support and communicate with the council regarding its work through policy leadership development revising legislation I mean is that necessary I don't think it's necessary I think that's like show up to our meetings and and do the goals like we're basically saying do the goals yeah I think in the end the only one that survived this or one of the only ones please report back to us on progress related to these goals I want to say I just wanna Paul I would like to give you Kudos the uptick that I have visibly noticed in the past year of you giving us advanced warning about things and all of that has it's it's noticeable and appreciated and I can't remember if I wrote that in my evaluation but I just wanted to say that now we can take this out um but I appre it feels like it has increased in a really helpful way so thank you um I think that this is not an action item I think this is in the introduction to the goals we say talk to us regularly I'm going to comment it and it later um oh goodness this is not action item I agree with that definitely okay it's one of the reasons why taking out and report back to the council hello yeah these are our goals you report on them yeah um we don't want polii of relationships anymore that's fair uh George struck the word develop positive relationship so I do think that I George I actually like it I think continue to communicate collaborate and partner with UMAS ammer Sumer College Hampshire College particularly in areas related to housing economic it's a little redundant but I think it's fine and I took out the last bit which may be a problem for some people but um we don't have strategic partnership in agreements with these institutions so it's not fair we only have with one of them and um and I think they're going to be some counselors are going to want something more specific about what they expect to get back from our uh college and university Partners I don't think that's appropriate but we'll have to fight that out at C before we completely delete that I don't disagree with what you're saying I am vehemently opposed I want to disclose I am not opposed to this because I work former College I'm opposed to this because this is not under Paul's control um I think that the coun many counil would like to see an action item that says pursue a strategic so but I think this language is really good so I I would like to say pursue strategic partnership agreements with each in institution that does not have one okay that provide financial and Community benefits to the town of ammer sounds would prefer that you got it do do your best take the take the out take the strikethroughs off I got you all right well again we we have one with you mass and that's set for five years I said with each institution that does not have one well oh it says okay all right fine I'm a half step ahead of barely so the only thing here is [Music] um people wanted more about Community engagement yeah I didn't really know what to do or say about that so I think we've got it I do actually think we have it in a couple other places we could move it but I don't think we need to um all right so folks that that does it um well done you're not done with me yet uh we I need I need three of us to stay for five more minutes I think I did all the work for you um not for you I think I did my my job as chair here so it'll be easy but um we need to vote to we thank you we need to vote to send this to council I believe yes yes okay so um is there a motion to [Music] I moved a cleaned up version of this of the goals to the council for their discussion on December 16th is there a second Ryan second thank you um all right I'm gonna go ahead and call councelor ete hi uh I am an i Lynn I councel hi all right um and Pat is absent Athena um I think even with the vote that you just took it's fair for you to go and do the cleanup and then share it with the okay do members and then they can send you any any final edits or anything before so that when you send it in with your report they've had a chance to see it that makes a lot of sense thank you copy send clean copy too um all right go members I am going to do my very best to uh clean this up tomorrow morning while it's still fresh in my Paul thank you very much Paul thank you Paul and Paul thanks for yeah atha Athena you can't leave but thank you I mean you can you can do whatever you want really as long as you make one of us make one of us a host we're fine I'm already host so oh great okay um all right friends so really quickly um we need to talk about the City one um this was I am one of the sponsors of it uh as well as is there a time I'm sorry a question if you may Madam chair is there actually a time on this is this like if it isn't done in the next two weeks all hell breaks loose I can't well I'm about to explain to you why this is not relevant um I spoke the reason why much of what's in that resolution is is very actionable and includes budgetary or includes directives towards staff so the sponsors connected and um we have we are deciding to withdraw that resolution at this time um all the sponsors agreed to that and so we will be withdrawing and figuring out our next steps instead of bringing it Forward councilor is that a really clumsy uh thing smooth description of it actually thank you okay is I may ask is that because it has Financial or budgetary uh implications and has more normally have to go to fincom as well yeah well resolutions and proclamations are non-binding so they can't direct okay and and if you want something to be accomplished you're gonna have to go a different way okay it have to be a bylaw um yeah okay so um well hey you never know what what B I might get in my Bonnet all right so let's talk about there was a pun and I intended it it's fine I know it's good it's too late all right I'm just trying to download one quick thing um I did get some feedback from uh the Dei Department why can't I view it normal I don't see oh no all right well let's start with ours um okay so this was what I marked up and put in the packet I did get the sponsor's confirmation on a couple of these um so I added in Kofa gumbo gumbo gumbo excuse me as a community sponsor that was confirmed by the council sponsors of this um and I'm just looking really quickly because I also had reached out to our Dei team um and the only edit he said was that I had 202 wait no it should be 2024 down below make sure it says oh my God I was sent them sorry I was just looking at something different I sent them a totally different one um I had checked with the Dei Department to see if they were doing anything for K Quanza and uh there is a reading of the Proclamation that I want to add in here and I but I got that after I um sent this in so I'll add that when we get down to the bottom here um but let's go line by line until we get there and I'm just going to add it as a comment so I don't forget counselor ate would you expand these size a bit yes I can thank you [Music] sorry okay that work yeah all right so any issues I'm gonna any issues with the change in the title no all right sponsor is fine um comment does the community sponsor have any kind of organizational affiliation or is it just an individual this is an organization so oh that's the name of an organization yes yes ah okay my my ignorance thank you no worries um I did some grammatical changes here does councelor agree with them I don't know I'm a little scared I thought I did I thought I did well but now I don't know um any issues with these no okay great I I'll take out the F in a second or just do it now okay um oh and in gathering is just one word okay added quotes here around the phrases any issues here no okay it's just easier to just do it this way um any issues here no any issues here no um I changed this around a little because it was really confusing to me um whereas in 1997 the United States Postal Service issued the first Quanza stamp and the first presidential Declaration of Quanza was made with declarations being made every year since good I like that just accept the whole thing well okay all right I will um anything here I spelled Massachusetts wrong but other than that that's all right just called the commonweal oh um um oh yeah so my my thought 2024 yeah it is you're right I didn't write that um this felt like a now therefore but I I'm just gonna I'm I'm inclined to just leave it because then I have to write more text I I it needs to I would put it now that there for all of this and specifically invite people to that event okay so you're saying do break it here therefore yeah go ahead because there's another event we have to add in so okay so invite all residents to join in celebrating learning BL through our event and then that event so December 26th at 5m yeah four good so then delete this yep okay um okay any other changes no I do I have a motion yes I move that we declare the go to the top oh sorry it's uh yep sorry the town of gmer Proclamation recognizing Quanza week 2024 is clear consistent and actionable a second thank you uh Lynn I George I councelor hi and I am and I as well and we have one absent all right folks hey you did it great there no more proclamations no no that's it you sure I yeah George I don't want to miss there was none there were no other ones on the agenda we have one more meeting this year on the 19th um go we will come together on that date we will have a proclamation at that time I heard I heard we're meeting at The Archives is that correct yes yeah somebody their Zoom we can do them it archives thank you get in the back room back room there all right do I have a motion to adjourn no I really want to stay in this I love having these night with you all but thank you all right is there a second second thank you all right uh councelor I think I heard an I I yes you did okay good Lynn I George hi and I am an i as well can someone just remind me who Moved ly you moved to the K Quanza and then who I did it and any number of people seconded it George did okay yeah no Cel all right thank you all so much and have a lovely rest of your day Athena was was over us bye everybody bye