great thanks Sharon okay good afternoon everybody uh welcome to today's meeting of the Jones Library building committee um as is our custom I'm going to ask you to indicate your presence uh vocally Sharon here George here Paul present Pam Rooney here it's nice to see you Pam Christine yeah nice to see you Jennifer here and we are going to be joined uh I see colleagues from FAA have joined us and our own Bob parent is also going to join us hey how are you thank you for coming sure we never turned down an invitation Austin oh okay I'll keep that in mind okay uh we have some minutes but I don't know if people have had a chance to look at the minutes I didn't share it with people yet okay so we have minutes from the 7th and the 21st we'll lay them over until the next time that we are we are together um the next item on our agenda is uh Pam yes sorry to interrupt I have a question is there some kind of a folder for this committee where Sharon can you help can be no I can't help but I bet Paul can because Angela does it all it's all on the town's website oh I can find out Angela's not not here if I can look so let you know I believe there is a folder for the uh for the committee um Christine yeah if you just go to the Committees on the town website and look up our committee and then on the right it says you can find all the agendas or packets or whatever and there is a new packet for today up there so we should have them should have the minutes that we're not gonna we're not going to approve okay there's not a SharePoint site that we could see without having to go to the public domain yeah this this group does not use SharePoint only the council uses SharePoint thank you and at some point someone will tell me what SharePoint is because I'm not curious about it but in any case next is a report from the town manager Paul so uh we have submitted a request to the mass Board of Library Commissioners to extend their Grant deadline this is a sort of a no cost item for the town it maintains our keeps our options open so I believe that um they will entertain this on June 6th at their at their uh meeting okay uh any questions for the town manager it is our hope oh yeah h i I just have to ask if if you could clarify that no cost option because it seems like every every option has some cost Associated it it um do we know what the costs are associated with delaying it X number of months so what I'm saying is that if the library if the mblc says um no then we know there's no cost to request the extension that's what that's what I meant to say uh yeah no definitely if there's a delay in the actual construction that there is a cost associated with that in terms of requesting the mblc it's there was you know they don't charge us for requesting it um and if they say they don't want to extend it that's very important information for us if they do extend it then it lets us continue to have the conversation okay any other questions for the town manager so I'm under the impression Paul that we are here to discuss uh possible changes to the design uh of the uh of the of the building and their cost implications are you under that same impression Paul that would be useful information I'm not sure if Ellen and and Josephine are are are ready to start sharing some of the insights that they've looked at but yes yes yeah so let me just let me just let me just say I thought Paul might might have done this but I just want to say um after our last meeting we asked um FAA to come back to this committee with uh alternatives for this committee to review um Alternatives that might um alter the design and save some money in the process we also asked FAA to give us a sense of what the cost would be of pursuing those Alternatives if there's to be redesigned work uh what would the cost to the to to the trustees to the town be uh for pursuing these um Alternatives so Ellen Josephine do you have anything that you might want to share with us yes uh Josephine I uh put together a spreadsheet and now I'm happy to share that thank you very much I need to be able to be uh share whoever the host is Sharon is waving she's going to enable it in one second okay so just um we so we've been talking about this I don't maybe for three weeks or a month and there's a lot been on our um in discussion do you see my screen I'm failing at this here we go thank you so we we started out um really just a a higher level of what what we can do and then after a number of conversations over the weeks uh it's been determined that this is has to be a bigger digging to get us anything significant so Austin would you like me to go through each one of these or I it would be great Ellen if you just would kind of walk us give us an overview of things that that these are things that we could do um and the savings Associated um with them right so the other part of the equation is we're still um shooting for mid-september to get this rebid back on the streets as they said and we have had a conversation with our estimator today he reconfirmed that so that's what we're basing this on so you can see we've got the the ve item the description the achievable within the 10we time frame and then approximate uh estimate uh and I'll go through these so the first group is is landscape and utilities so defer ocean Stone benches and that's uh B benches in the landscape that at the patio entrance um that we have been uh having on the plans for uh quite a long time but it could possibly construct them at a later date also defer The Children's Courtyard if you remember that's at the front of the building on the right hand side we were creating that fenced in area for the children um and I can go through the pricing actually so the first item the Goan Stone benches around these are approximate numbers 112,500 the courtyard is uh just over 100,000 uh defer the um uh the storm water water garden planting so we have we're going to create that soil but the plantings can come in later that would be a $30,000 savings uh Delete rain Garden Bridge Crossing so uh I know folks know what that is so that that would be um an 80,000 approximately $80,000 um uh savings but what would have to go in would have to would have a concrete Culvert so that the the descriptions are a little little bit more uh a little bit more information delete catenary lighting out back that was our out back outdoor uh patio in the rear of the building at the back Edition that's a savings of just over $6,000 and delete site utility upgrades at fire station so this is it the utility upgrades and parking lot Paving adjacent to the fire station and the question is could these be broken out um separately uh and that's I think a question that we would have to have with the town and that would be a significant savings at 20 2050 yeah uh on the interior of the building so this is I just want to stop you that was 200 50,000 is that right that's correct now just I'm I'm sorry um would any of these six things involve significant redesign work from your point of view uh not some design work but not significant okay thank you it's more deleting in uh omitting um interior existing building so what we have now in the base of the of the project is we're taking because there's asbest in all the plaster so the um our drawings call for removing all the asbestos plaster in the building so in able to to be able to do that we have to take off all of the historic trim work and and we were taking that off cleaning it to get spus off at storing offsite then the new walls would be would be installed in the new wood trim the old wood trim reinstalled and that's a significant savings that's about a million dollars and again we had another meeting with our estimator today and he confirmed these numbers uh it's a significant amount of work yeah Ellen I just want to make I'm sorry I just saw Paul Ban's hand Paul oh sorry Paul just to clarify so like if I look at it for um delete the rain Garden Crossings and replace the $80,000 is that the net cost yes okay so that that includes substituting the alternate okay that's all I want to clarify thank you thank you Paul so this I just wanted to point out this is significant that what I did want to make a a note the that Center Hall interior steer that one that we have been keeping we would still keep that right we'd work around that because that we all know that's significant to the project um item eight is right now we own replacing all the window sash in the in the historic building with new wood insulated glass um window sash so there was an option just to keep what we have and repair them and that's kind that's hard to put a number on you know because we don't need know the exact how much repair they need but you know we think it's in the $70,000 range and we we'll have to confirm that one uh the next one is is actually I should it's number nine is actually it involve the CLT so we would remove all the CLT on the project the CLT the wood decking and the wood columns would all go and would replace it with steel metal deck and concrete and that would have a a significant Savings of um 500,000 that also includes changing our interior Monumental stair the new one we're going in with again that would be just stale middle deck you know just a basic stair uh let's see oh so the Adam if we decide that we want to take out all the asbestos in in the project one of the locations that we could have significant savings is in the what will now be the reading room it's the that's the large Arch ceiling and that's very intricate and detailed there is an option if we were to remove all the asbestos except for that ceiling would' have a $36,000 savings because that I mean you've all been in there it's it's very intricate and and this sloping plaster uh ceiling is not something that a lot of Tradesmen can do well these days mhm in the uh number 11 is change synthetic sleep on the roof to asphalt shingle and that would be 227,00 savings again approximate uh building exterior addition item number 12 change the brick to fiber cement siding so this is a savings of approximately 143 448 so there is some savings there it's a it's a different you know brick is pretty low no maintenance in fiber cement after 10 10 20 years you will have to paint it delete roof monitor um that's savings we would infill the roof and not have that monitor monitor over the stair that's a savings of 77 just over 77,000 and then item number 14 which is you may not this may not you may not understand this but it's changing the curtain wall Windows to a storefront window that would be a savings of 150,000 and that the windows will look slightly different but they'll perform just as well so that we we we feel you know comfortable make that in the last two items 15 and 16 omit the Civil War and art gallery reconfigure admin spaces that's a total redesign and we we do not we we feel we cannot achieve that in the TW 12 weeks that we have budgeted for time and then uh item 16 leave the 1927 building as it at is that would be again a a large redesign and we could not achieve that in in 12 weeks so the total savings again approximately is 200 887 884 two million two million right um Ellen uh help us first of all thank you for this list help us understand uh how much would um how much would this cost us to do so let's say we said yes we want to do all of this what would the cost of the redesign be we to be honest Austin we don't have that number I can give you a range and I would I would not want to be held to that till we actually figured out each line out of the number of hours it would need to take but if you think of something like the changing this synthetic slate to Asphalt sounds easy but we have to touch 20 details right so it's it's it's these sound easy but they're but they're not um so we when we had on the table Josephine correct me if I'm wrong we had the changing from CLT um what were the other two we had on the table initially existing Windows the existing windows and CLT existing windows and the M work and the mill work so those three things we were over a we were over 300,000 so these other things um would be it would be a few hundred thousand more at least because it's it's again it's public bid we so we have to change every time it says you know the the whole fiber cement board that that's a huge redesign effort huge because that's every wall section every detail of the exterior so Ellen again I'm I'm I I understand that you can't give us a precise figure but are you talking about in the ballp of five or 600,000 I say I would say eight I would say eight $800,000 to be safe I would say eight in Austin that could go lower but just to be you know conservative right and uh depending on what we decided we wanted to do by way of redesign uh some of these fig some of these possibilities are more significant in terms of how much it would cost for you yes so just if you could give us a couple of the ones that are the more more significant in terms of your your work I would say um item number 12 12 okay um item number 11 11 uh Josephine please chime in yeah um nine is you know the CLT changes is yes that's significant the largest yeah that's a redesign including our structural engineer and recoordination with MEP okay and then just a couple of things Ellen to remind uh everyone in this meeting and everyone who is attending uh could you remind us of um uh the the thing that you said the the roof monitor could you remind us what that so above we originally we had a skylight above the stair right yes so because the floor plate in the addition is quite large so we were trying to get some light down into the center of that over the stair so we had we had a rectangular section of the roof lifted and we had windows in it yep okay and can you say a a a word or two about fiber cement siding so uh jine I don't know if you have if you can bring the drawings up or something um so if and I think we need the drawings for this the an exterior even if it's a rendering just um the on the put in your mind the back of the building where we have we have this pop out section of the floor plan on on on two floors and that we're cladding and it's fiber cement board but it's clab boards so it's it's new tech it's not new technology it's been around for a long time but it's it's an reinterpretation of a wood CLA board which has a lot of Maintenance um but these fiber cement board they do not they don't rot um they need to be painted I want to say it's 20 years but we can confirm that um and Joseph's getting us an elevation so we would change that and then one thing actually that I I apologize because I did this in such a in a rush this afternoon we also have on the table but it's not in this list is the addition roof we can just point this out so Jose do you want to point out the you might want to zoom in on that lower elevation oh let me stop sharing oh you you're already sharing can you see my screen now yes you're you're so good yes okay um yeah so this is the rear um North elevation yeah so um did you were we hopping into the roof monitor no do talk about the fiber cement yes yeah so this pop out that we have in the on the rare Edition right now is that fiber cement board that is discussing so it's go ahead linear it's linear Cloud boards right so the idea would be that where the brick is that would be wrapping it and um and I think you know we'd still probably like we mentioned um earlier have you know a brick at the base or something at the base that you know to the bottom of the window right and then go with the siding the Hardy Board Siding above that can you point out the brick locations just oh sure um so pretty much let me zoom in a little more you can see the hatch pattern um of you know where the is currently M but um if we kept brick at the base we would run it to probably the window sill you know to like this location and we would do that for maintenance it would it would be more durable than the fiber cement so yeah I don't know if you can see that you can see the orange line that you just drew yeah right so it would that would remain and when I when I say um it's more durable it's for the lawnmower the weed whacker you know that kind of thing once it's you know up higher people aren't really going to be have doing anything touching it or anything so that's that the other thing that and I apologize it's not on this list it's the the standing seam metal roof we're also getting a price uh an estimate to change that to um asphalt shingle and that just on the front rendering that shows that extent we could get certainly a gray um but it it wouldn't quite look exactly like that right Ellen you made reference to the the windows yes you want to just remind everybody where what you were talking about you're talking about Windows on the North side yes so J if you could go back to that so all of the we've we've have all of the windows on the North side including that that large section above the entrance it's called curtain wall it's a robust system for that has large spans but we can we did it here for the Aesthetics of of consistency right but we we an option would be is the smaller Windows everything except for that large uh vertical expanse over the over the door the rest of it would get storefront so it's the system isn't as deep I think it's 4 and a half to five as as opposed to the curtain wall most people would not notice a difference but um what I was asking you to do I'm sorry is also could you show us what was there originally you had the window treatment on the on the on the rendering oh it's the same it's the same Austin no but I want I wanted you to show us the The Living Color version so to speak okay if you could was on the rendering yeah so can you zoom in it's just it would the window would have the same configuration the same mions and everything same color but it would be a storefront product as opposed to a curtain wall okay okay I thought this is on um this is on the west side of the building this is the whole Edition I understand but but what I'm looking at now is I'm looking at the West Side that's great could you show us the backside the north side as it is right now in the rendering the renderings uh if you give me a second I can if it's easy enough if it's a just need to just take a minute yeah yeah sorry pull this off the screen for you guys a whole bunch I'll just open them and start pinning through them oh these are older bear with me there you go there you go that's that's that's what I wanted to see that's what I wanted to see okay okay Ellen and Josephine so I'm now going to ask if people have um questions uh that they they want they want to ask now Paul so I have some simple but probably stupid questions but um because I do not know your work is there such a thing is like search and replace and like when you talk about the shingles is there I'm not sure if in or whoever you do this in like if you just say wherever it says this just replace it with that is that an option one day with AI I think one day with AI we're just not there yet okay as far as as far as like the details and all the drawings you mean Paul is that what you're referring to yeah I'm or just a shingle so I'm just thinking about that like because you I think the cost it sounds like what Ellen's identifying is that there's so many sheets that have to be touched and revised and it's a timec consuming process right and of course you know it's the drawings have to you know go out for right drawings so the detail is going to change there'll be a different kind of flashing detail different connection detail so those things we have to go and change it's just not the label but no that's a good question that's fair um you know we had talked about the book order and is that I didn't see that on your list at all that's not in our budget that's not in our estimate okay that's part of your project budget okay okay um and then in terms of the design fee if I'm looking at this right it seems like it's a 2.8 2.9 Million in savings and $800,000 cost of redesign that's like a 28% design fee that seems kind of high are you just are you just just that's a guess I guess and because I if I lowball it that's you're you'll stick with that and it may not be accurate and that you you as a client team are no different from every other client if you give a low number that's what everybody remembers so that that would be that would be the then be high okay thank you uh just on that question George before you get in Ellen when would you be able to give us real numbers when you what the in the perfect world Austin if you tell us which ones you will would like to consider and which ones you will not consider that is helpful to us um and then we can we can uh uh you know go through our set of documents and figure out what needs to be changed so the answer to my question is until you get guidance yeah from us uh you're not going to be able to give us a a real hard number about this is what the cost of the redesign would be okay um I got George and then Pam and then Sharon George you're muted George he's fiddling there we go this laptop has a hard button um in regards to number 11 uh switching out the synthetic slave for asphalt is that something that we would have to go to the historic commission for for a wave of some kind seeing as that kind of hits the historic preservation restriction on the exterior of the building I and that's a great question George that I would assume but but I can't speak for the town I mean because also George we went you know the planning board they everybody looked at the outside of the addition we got a lot of people um you know agreeing to do what we we we have done so I'm not sure we would ask some guidance from from your team um is who we need to go back to see um that's that's thank you George that's um that's great because that also impacts time in terms of what it is that we might um we might we might be wanting to do before I get Pam and Sharon in there is a question that if you were to replace the CLT Ste what would be the impact on the environmental sustainability of this building the embodied carbon figure do you have any idea about that I'll let just Fe speak to that right so what would change is the embodied carbon and that's derived from the teddy or the tally analysis that we had done um we would not plan to do another analysis unless you had requested it so we wouldn't know what those numbers are and what the impact is without that analysis and the overall environmental sustainability do you have a sense the eui I mean what any of these design changes might mean for that no um okay so for the eui yeah we haven't looked into into that that's the energy use intensity and um I'm not sure if any of these would impact that we'd have to look further into that okay thank you sorry Pam no problem um I think Ellen mentioned that the books order was not in the budget that it's in something called a project a project budget uh are there other pieces of equipment any of the furnishings and fixtures are they also not in your budget or correct correct Pim so the way our estimator says clearly if you flipped a building over everything fell out that falls out is not in the estimate right so it's loose Furniture it's the books sorder none of that's in the project budget which I know callers has developed for your your group I don't know who has it but it it is there and all these items are listed okay so I I heard sort of contradictory things the numbers are in our overall project budget they just aren't in the FFA FAA architectural component right so I will just to make it clear you we we have been commissioned for our contract to do a construction budget that's what we that's what that's what these numbers are based on callers did a project budget for you guys and that's has all the the fees and all you know all of that stuff and I know it's available because we've we've reviewed it as a team yeah okay so the the complete project budget is still what what was over five7 million correct project budget that's correct Pam okay Bob do you want to chime in on this Bob par certainly I was just a clarification on Project budget versus construction budget the books order is not carried in the construction budget so for instance deleting the books order would not affect the contractor's bid but it would affect the total project budget and FFN uh Furniture furnishings and Equipment similarly is carried in the overall budget but is not carried in the construction budget so it wouldn't directly impact the contractor's bid but it would impact the total project cost so is it right Bob if we were to take out the books order the books order is $400,000 what that would mean is we would have $400,000 to spend on something else assuming we kept the project budget the same that would reduce the yeah that would reduce the project cost by $400,000 correct it it means that we could do one of two things we could either reduce the project cost by $400,000 or keep the project cost the same but spend the $400,000 Elsewhere for example on construction costs correct and and that same Dynamic plays on all of the other non- construction related correct uh line items that are carried in the overall project cost correct you know the the the moving costs the the the temporary space rental costs things like that are all um on top of what the contractor bids yeah Pam is that helpful thank you very much Sharon yeah uh that was one thing that I wanted to clarify the $400,000 savings and and staff have already accepted the fact that uh that that books order is gone uh it could it could come another time but it it won't be a part of this project um and so Ellen one of my my only other question is um if if we move forward and sign a contract with you for 800,000 or 700,000 or whatever it is as we work with you can would that leave an opportunity for us to discover possibly to find other Cuts during that process yes yes you know anything minor Sharon we you we could e if we can easily incorporate it sure but if it's something major redesign or go study this or go that we won't be able to do that in the 12 weeks but if it's something small for sure okay thank you y far you're muted sorry um so I'm just a quick question about the 12 weeks does that does that start now or does that start after our meeting with the MB uh mblc we assumed it was after the meeting with mblc after the sixth okay yeah thank you yeah I think uh Christine before I get you in there we'll think together a little bit about process we are seeing these things for the first time right uh we'll need some time to digest them people will need to go back and look at the renderings and the plans and compare what it is you're now talking about to what it is that we have been what it is that we've been seeing so there's going to be some period where we're going to need to deliberate about um how we're going to move forward with and which of these things we might want to we might want to Value engineer Christine yeah um first thanks to FAA Ellen and josine for doing this um I also I poured through the 62-page estimate and made my list and and you guys hit them all I just have a few more questions on a couple things um regarding it's under parti uh partitions and column covers it's over a half mil um you know they're like 2,000 or $1,800 a piece and I was wondering what that was was it fancy could it be a little less fancy and does it change with the CLT removal go ahead J so we haven't thought through yet what we propose with the CLT removal but we did have wood in some cases because we were um mimicking the CLT structure where we couldn't have the glue LS so um so I would imagine that that number would come down but we definitely haven't looked into you know what the changing of wood and steel means for for the rest of the structure right and if I could add in so we when we if we switch to Steel so the columns will be steel and we will cover those with jip right they'll have a gips and plaster so they'll be it'll be less than that probably Christine because it's not wood um so but yeah there'll be more of that because the the the the glue the glue Lambs we weren't covering it was the steel that we covered to make it look like a glue LM okay I just want to make sure you guys were looking at that thank you um the other thing is we had had a lot of talk in the past about whether we were going to have solar or be solar ready but I do notice that it's in the estimate there's photov volcanic panels um almost a half million dollars are which are we and what can we do so per the building code we have to be photov voltaic ready so you could we could delete the panels if you choose to do that and then we go after Grant or something yeah we did the Framingham christm call library I think they got the panels seven years after open so the roof will be ready to take the panels go yeah I know there's a lot of programs out there so that could be another thing that we talk about as an option being half that's big okay we can add that to the list and then just a couple little smaller small things um you know I know we have to have tile in the bathrooms and everything I didn't know where else tile was going or of course the wood floor I was assuming that was going into some of the rooms in the old um part of the building but is there any thought of more um uh lenium or carpet just as a savings yeah we can look at that because we did have some of the in the historic rooms um we were putting in wood but we can look at that for sure and uh I noticed there's like a bazillion different lights which I know is nice but I wonder if there would be any savings in uniforming those I know for maintenance wise it makes it easier too George would probably love that um I didn't know if there was any savings there um well that so that that the so the the electrical numbers the sub filed sub bids came in on or below right so that so to go back we would that would be a a redesign fee for the um I figured that and not small CH yeah I'm trying big things um and the only other one on that was um we have a very rigorous um fire suppression I assume that's just in collection that's a big ticket I didn't know if we were buying like the Cadillac or if there's any savings on that I don't know just do you recall exactly waterproof cabinets I don't know and an archist I don't think we were going for Cadillac I know we were we we talked about the BPL system Ellen you know and what you done there but we definitely um narrowed that down a bit we did because that was super expensive right right right and we did um we did take it down from from that system um we could look at it um and see if there's anything we could do with that same communication um some of that was pretty expensive but again if it's just a moderate I I just you know what do we really need um to function as a great Library no that's a good call we'll look into that for sure okay that's all I have thank you and thanks so Ellen um and Josephine could you talk a little bit I was a little um I know I followed you all the way around with the replacement of the paneling so instead of taking it down doing the as best dis abatement taking it off site bringing it back putting reinstalling what would you what's the yes can Josephine can you bring up matap Port oh yeah give me give me a minute that's a good question Austin we can look at the spaces through matterport and to so you guys have a full understanding of what it is we can do and also again just to be clear the interior where there was a a lot of um at the roof at a ceiling uh that's not going to be there if the CLT is not there is that correct no you won't see wood right you won't will not see wood we we will put in AC itic tile ceilings you know they standard what you would have yep yep yep great and I want to go back back ell so there's there's a lot of I mean there's woodwork all over this building there woodwork where the cataloging gets done now there's Woodwork in the director's office and so when you're talking about um not putting that historic woodwork back you are talking about any of the historic woodwork that's there other than you said the stairs the stairs yeah and the paneling on the stairs yeah um yep so this yep for example oh yep so for example this stair will excuse me save the stair the wood paneling would have to come out and be reinstalled on the left side of the stair but what's on the right side of the hallway and the trim around the doors and all that would would not be would be taken out and what would be what would be there that's what I'm what what would be there is we have two choices y we would replicate what's here which would be a a heavy lift in terms of drawing because there's a lot of it or we go back in and just do basic wood trim and uh wood jam that you would probably see in the the addition of the of the 1980s Wing it's very simple it's what you'd see in a house it wouldn't be this elaborate and more of a cost Savings of course right so the the the thing of it the cost of we've talked about this a lot maybe not with you guys amongst ourselves is is the handling of this so it's it's going to have to be a specialized abatement person because most abatement guys come with a crowbar right this they would have to be have more finesse in removing this cleaning the asbest off um tagging it of where it goes and then storing it in the proper climate then when the new Gip is put in they would then have to fit all of this back in place and that is is tricky because you know the it the walls currently may be not quite straight and then the new walls go on and there they're straight and so it doesn't always match up so there's a lot of work there's a lot of work in this right the first alternative that you mentioned I'm trying to now imagine if that woodwork isn't there is to replace it with with with some wood product is that what you're suggesting yes yeah yeah it would be just flat stock Austin okay okay uh Pam thank you um uh has has anyone discussed not touching the walls period so that all all of the historic woodwork remains intact and you don't touch the walls themselves yes so there's a couple levels of that Pam one is we don't touch the walls but we will need problem of the reason we we need to touch the walls are we need to put more electrical outlets in we need to put new Lighting in we need to do new uh sprinkler system all of this requires touching the the asbest right so it if it bogs down the construction sequence so if they have to Channel all the asbestos um you know to to run a sprinkler line they have to channel that they have to channel um when I say Channel they have to cut these troughs out through by the time you're said and done doing all that labor you you may end up to be at the same cost because that's very that's high that that's 10day notification you know for abatement removal and and that it's it's quite it's it's challenging we we are doing it on a much much smaller project that the client did not want to take it out and it's been a cost nightmare for them because it's just more GC cost and I think we could could um I don't know Bob you you can certainly chime in on that but we we analyze that as well and then the other thing is that you have a existing library with asbestos all over the place every time you you know it's just it's it's not not a good thing to have in your building not a good thing to have in our building but what you're saying is one way to proceed is to leave a lot of the asbest in the building you yes we you would you would have to do as I I was just saying uh Austin you have to channel it all and and we can do it that way that that's that's labor intensive but that's an option okay the other option that we've talked about today ALS o is that we leave all the trim in place take an exact take a like a knife and cut all the if you could point to it just cut along all the trim and take that that uh asbest out that's available then we can encapsulate the the ends because there's there's asbest Behind these all this trim yep and encapsulate that that would give you a little bit more wiggle room on running you you know electrical and all that stuff but in the end you'll be leaving encapsulated asbest there yeah yeah um I see Alex Alex thanks can you hear me yeah good um I so I guess Ellen so if the costs wind up being the same for leaving the wood trim and the paneling the biggest reason not to do that would be that we keep the asbest in the building or and or is there a worry that it's much harder to understand the real costs until you're in the middle of doing it I don't I think I I think we could make it clear Alex if we if we were to leave the trim and cut around the trim I think we could make that clear on the documents what goes right but if they if for instance the paneling uh by the where those two chairs are if we need to put an outlet in there which we probably do it's going to be the contractor would have to notify uh an abatement company into a 10day day notification to cut that hole to run the electrical it just there's a it comp it complicates it but it makes it easier at the same time because we're if we do that we take large swaths of the of the asbestos out and that's a benefit okay I guess I guess I'm trying to I mean obviously we if we keep the wood paneling that would be the preference and if it's the same cost that seems so I guess I'm just trying to figure out what I'm missing that why but what do you mean the same cost it it probably it would be cheaper Alex it would be cheaper to leave this trim and cut around and take theast the exposed plaster out that would be cheaper than what we have on our drawings now but there a risk to that and and the risk to that being during construction the could be additional asbest um that would need to be removed because an Outlet's going in or a vents going in and it's going through a place that we didn't take thebest out because it was behind wood paneling right okay I think that's what I was ineffectively trying to say um so while we're on this picture I guess so the one thing that we haven't talked about is the staircase which the removal of the staircase off makes for a more efficient flow of the building and I know it's been important to some members of the community but I is removing the staircase uh even an option within the 12 week period or is that too much of a redesign I have no idea what kind of costv I don't that's a I I have no idea I um this has been it's been our marching order so long that to keep it um I I think to keep it is not a big deal it's not it's not a big deal okay because it's it's so it's so by itself uh it's only the paneling we'd have to work with but we could do that okay great thanks thank you Alex uh Pam thank you I just wanted to confirm if someone is doing asbest abatement they're going to put in their notice their 10day notice and they're going to they're going to address as many possible location as they can in one Fell Swoop correct and they do their job well it doesn't mean that we do 110 day notices that's correct it it just it if they do their job well yes and it's it's coordination and that kind of thing okay does anybody have any questions about this picture because I'm G to otherwise I asked that the screen share be stopped um Al I think she's good maybe not Alex I have a I have a question but not about the picture so I'm sorry that's why I lowered it okay so um I wonder if we could uh just go back to the screen share where you showed us your um your project your cost savings you know the coach course savings one second thank you okay uh any questions about anything that you see on this chart Alex yeah so I guess I just W to so um I appreciate the work that Christine did to try to identify some things and the solar panels seems like a a really big thing and I think Christine you threw out a number of $500,000 but I don't know if that includes getting things uh solar ready or that just seems that seems like really obvious loow hanging fruit and I guess I'm the fact that it's not on this list I'm like what else are we missing or I don't know you know what Alex we did our best since Friday afternoon to put this list together and we've been working on it we uh the solar panels we always thought was not a non-negotiable item and that's why it was still on the list it wasn't on this list but it does have to be solar ready the question Ellen if you could just on this is if the solar panels were omitted would that involve significant red design on your end no no it would still have to be the pipes and everything run up there but that that's no the panels that not redesign no Y and actually an an added bonus to if we did take the monitor out um we could get more solar panels in uhuh in the future yeah okay any questions about this chart I just had one other question about the window about the windows I I would assume that changing out the windows is going to impact the eui because the eui is only as good as the envelope of the building which windows so we're talking about two the ones in the existing right we're talking about those Alex and then the is that the on you're thinking about yeah because I'm assuming changing from a curtain wall to a storefront isn't going to impact it it's the 1928 windows but but maybe so much of our eui I know was coming from the new building so what we do in the 1928 may not really have an impact on that go ahead Josephine can you comment on that that's that's right we we definitely need to look get that um eui analysis again to to confirm um if the existing Windows like we know for instance the teddy analysis doesn't take that into account um but we would have to check for the eui and to see what would be impacted by that but the one thing on the W the Windows though Alex I'd like to hear from George what his thoughts are in terms of the condition of the windows now right if there if they're held together with you know bubble gum we we we certainly looked at them all uh they all need painting um I think some of them the painting has helped preserve them um if you're still on here George can you chime in on what what your thoughts are yeah I mean I would say that the majority of the the sash windows uh are in I don't think there's anything that's rotten uh they would all obviously need scraping painting and reglazing um there's probably a few broken panes here and there um I think when you get when you get into the special Windows like the uh the round windows in the the fiction room the doed room uh that window that's going to be repurposed in the back uh those may need more work just because they're places where you can't really study them but as far as the sashes themselves go uh the standard sashes for the most part I think that they would just take your your basic uh your basic maintenance and repair some of them may be missing their their uh their weights uh stuff like that but but for the most part I don't think any of them are rotten or would need wood replacement okay okay thank you pam pam and Christine before you get in I just want to say out loud what what we all know which is we're looking to close a $7 million gap between the one bid that we got and what our budget is um what you're offering here is as much perhaps now maybe $3 million in savings uh and an investment of maybe $800,000 so let's say a savings of a couple of million dollars uh I want I want you to say again what we have said before which is uh if we were to take $2 million if we were to invest in this redesign and save let's say net a couple of million um we're doing that because our hope is that when we go out to rebid uh and attract more competitive bids uh this will make a significant difference in terms of what we get back in other words you're you're what we're talking about is instead of just going to rebid with the hope that that the rebidding will save us $7 million if we do this redesigned work we're doing it because we believe that the rebidding probably wouldn't save us $7 million but it might save us four and a half or five is that correct M so we we would net us about a couple million yes ausome and but the the hope is we're doing that because we believe that just simply going out to rebid is not going to save us 7 million so we got to do something and the hope is that we do this the rebid saves us four and a half or five million and we come in at our at our budget number okay ham I have a question that's not for the architectural team but it's for um Paul bam and Bob uh and again it's um it's it's the other the other side of the coin when will we be able to hear some of the costs um on our parallel track of a repair project and I know nobody in this room wants to talk about it but um the the basic the basic requirements of HVAC repair or replacement um fire alarm and suppression and roof repair and I think before any of us you know comes to a conclusion at any point we really need those kind of numbers and when will we get those and who's working on them I believe Shar Sharon were you asking Co riddle to update their estimates no no no we need direction from you okay so we have we haven't done that sub substantive work at all other than what we've done previously we don't have yeah we don't we don't have a yeah I'm not talking about a full review of the western Builders and the entire array of of K riddle Ada I'm talking about those three elements that that are identified in you know in the in the mo Moa so we haven't done a substantial update on that in since we've been since we've since we've gotten the bids in thank you bam Christine thank you um I have a question to um the designers but just on that last part I'd be interested in seeing a number that last estimate from years ago and just with pure um you know current numbers and uh inflation what that number would be that would just to me would be um telling it itself but um can I add one thing to that and it's I know we're not involved in it make sure it includes ASB bestus the cost to whenever it's being touched especially on the [Music] roof absolutely um thanks um so back to did I back on the um fiber cement siding did I hear you say that there would be some split phase um CMU like on the bottom is that I just thought I heard split face but I wasn't sure no it's we we would Josephine was describing would carry the brick up to the the the window sill just so we have some buffer okay yeah for and not and leave it as the brick not go with a split face whatever okay yeah not no just straight brick yeah okay thanks that's it thank you thank you Christine Alex yeah just I want to clarify to Pam's question about the repair um again for the purview of this committee I don't know like is that something like as we're sort of doing the cost analysis is one of the things that we should be doing is looking at the long-term cost for the town of a repair versus this um I don't I don't know um and if that's the case you know my understanding and now I'm been off for five months so I I don't know what's happened but you know the the numbers that we have wouldn't meet building code so the so what was gotten from Weston and Builders and updated by riddle has nothing to do with current building codes has nothing to do with so those were uh requests from jcpc for minimum cost to keep the building open so um I as I understand it from my time when I was there the main stumbling block is you have to pay somebody to actually design a system it's not a plug-and playay of a new system it's much more complicated than that and once you've torn open the building and you start getting into HVAC everything's interconnected so it's it's it's not it's a matter of the town or Library paying additional funds to hire somebody to design a system so can I just interrupt you Ellen you're sharing your screen are you aware of that or Josephine maybe yeah somebody thank Paul I was hoping to get some inside information there but thank you so so I so I think I think if it's within the purview of this committee and it's part of what we should be doing is evaluating the cost to the town to not move forward with the project versus how we value engineer this project then that's one conversation but if that's something that's outside the scope of this that's okay too I guess just some clarification so we know what we should be discussing yep I I assumed that that was our responsibility to make recommendations to the town manager so I our responsibility as I understand it but Paul can our responsibility is to make recommendations to the town manager about the the building project um I didn't I I don't understand it as our responsibility to like if we don't build the building if we don't renovate and expand oh let's talk about the HV system that would be the responsibility of the trustees in a conversation with the town manager and jcpc uh that's what I that's what I understand this the Jones Library building committee um as I understand its charge is not to kind of tell the town manager or tell the library you know this is the way you ought to go about repairing the existing building or our work is to help design uh a a renovated and expanded building should um uh should we go forward with that plan far thanks Austin I just wanted to speak to that a little bit um when Pam asked her question just wanted to say that buildings and Facilities did meet last week and we did discuss uh what I mean we did start talking about what might what could be what had to be done in terms of the HVAC and the roofs and the exterior and George uh mentioned the plan the the the report from a few years ago and the plan would be now to have George and Sharon come up with a backup plan and present it to the town Sharon am I right that's what we discussed and that would be under the purview of the buildings and Facilities committee as I understand it I just wanted to add to what Austin said and to respond to what Pam asked yeah yeah it's a fair question and um uh and one that the library trustees are considering uh what do we do if we do not go forward with this project and Pam just as you identified we're not talking about the full riddle thing in the in the first instance we're talking about what exactly the things that you that that you reference so appreciate it okay any other any other questions or comments on what FAA has presented okay can I I have a comment Austin just so before we leave this and I was looking for the number so what I'm adding to that chart is a cost for solar panels um not using wood flooring using uh lolium or or carpet and then investigating the archival fire suppression system so I will add those to this list and then um send it out Austin so if you would um if you would send it to the members of the committee that would be terrific so I'll send that out tomorrow with those added so that number that total number will go up great great okay so U thank you uh to Ellen and Josephine thank you this is um very very helpful as we uh think about uh how to move forward um Jennifer a finance update I I have nothing to update at this time no invoices to be approved I haven't received any no good thank you okay uh correspondence I Ellen I want be before if you end the meeting quick I wanted to be sure just to reinforce the the idea of that we get the vote if we get the vote from mblc which we assume we will get on the 6th our clock for 12 weeks starts ticking on the 10th so we will need to know by then I just want to set expectations very helpful very very helpful good uh I no Co correspondence uh topics not anticipated not that I know of uh we have 24 attendees we now have uh some time for public comment anybody wishing to speak if you would raise your virtual hand now and then what we'll do is we'll um invite those people to speak okay I see three hands so we're going to limit the public comment to the three hands that are now up and I would ask you to please try to be brief with your comments and to the to the point but thank you um Leticia Leal thank you very much can you hear me yes okay 18 Dana Street um in ammer I had two questions and I really appreciate the fact that you um called on me first because I thought there was something else that Christine grey Mullen brought up about partitions and columns that was going to be added to Ellen's list and it seems to me that that should be added not just the three things Ellen had put down but that was $500,000 savings and then my second question was about whether or not you could actually focus on the wood paneling around the doorways and forget about the ones along the walls where the outlets would go which actually even in the picture that was shown are much lighter in color and don't seem to be quite as important in terms of the athetics of the building um anyway I didn't know whether that would actually save any money Ellen or Josephine might be able to say that and my my comment was those were my two questions um and my comment is um I so appreciate the work that everyone is doing to try to bring the cost down this is an indispensable project for the town um I support it 100% and um thank you all for what you're doing and uh please call on me if you need um boosting thank you thank you latia thanks thank thank you very much thanks for coming Bob Pam I believe I am now unmuted you are Bob okay um um looking at this from a financial perspective um it seems to me that if you start talking about replacing the woodwork and the Shing and replacing the shingles with asphal and you are probably talking about eliminating the possibility of getting a historic tax credit which is valued at anything from a million eight or $2 million it's hard to tell exactly um so just recognize that if you save $2 million on construction and uh reduce the amount of money available to pay for it you are not actually making any savings um but it's it is important to actually look at the effects of this last two years of design work um on the ability to finance a repair only project and so I'm going to talk about that for a bit despite what you've said because I believe uh the town manager really has to be thinking about this but I'm going to ask I'm sorry I'm going to ask you uh please to limit your comments to what is before the committee if you want to weigh in on the advisability of a repair option it seems to me this is not the venue to do it it seems to me that the venues to do it seem to disappear whenever I look for them um I would request the committee to allow me to speak on this question um but Bob the venues to do it are to the trustees of the library the buildings and Facilities committee the town manager and the town councel um if you want to take a couple minutes to say whatever it is that you want to say you should do it but please limit yourself to a couple of minutes I will try to do that the HVAC system needs to be replaced I feel strongly that it should be with a commercial scale ear Source heat pump type system as was planned for the Expansion Project it was to be placed on the new roof with visual baffles to keep it out of sight I believe it can go on the 1993 building roof or if the atrium is rebuilt on a smaller scale on an edge of the Interior roof perhaps where the old projection booth was which may have stronger roof supports even if placed on the ground it would take less land than the addition would have taken the design for this system including all of the piping and valves throughout the 1928 building have already been done by professional Architects and Engineers I believe we now own those work products and can use them that should save us months and hundreds of thousands of dollars if we do not proceed with a full expansion Massachusetts the federal governments and the utilities offer grants towards energy work that meets their rules having spent years documenting why and how we are worthy as an organization and as a project we should be able to write Grant applications now and how the needed work is environmentally worthy similarly much of the technical work on an upto-date fire suppression system has been done much can be used directly for the 1928 building even if the atrium remains largely the same the 1993 portion may have been designed with better access for upgrades so that they too the plans prepared for the larger project can possibly be applied Bob I'm gonna I'm sorry again these are very helpful comments but it's not for this committee well I'm afraid there is no other committee that's doing any of this work well again I'll just redirect you uh you remember of the Board of Trustees through the month it's the Board of Trustees of the library that is responsible for this it's the town manager and the Town Council the building committee these are wonderful ideas to hear but uh this is not the committee that's going to think about how to repair the building this is the committee that's going to think about how to renovate and expand I'm I'm really I'm I'm really I'm really sorry if you have anything else that's relevant to our conversation I'd love to hear it then I will stop at this point I was actually going to end with some some compliments but I guess I will hold on those thank you thanks so much Bob Kelly irn Kelly sorry I had a a hard button just like George sure um so I think this is great that the committee is digging in deep into the details and I wanted to uh offer support and say I know know this is really hard and that the devil is in the details and that your attention to this and the time you're putting into it really makes a difference um I wanted to say to Paul I know a lot is waiting on your shoulders and um I really appreciate how much you are putting into this to make a thoughtful decision I just also wanted to acknowledge for all of you who have been working on this for so long including Ellen and Josephine that you have done a really good job and we all have to uh hold each other up and be strong as we have to look at taking apart some of the plans that were so carefully and wonderfully made so hang in there and uh let's hope we end up like the library you referenced earlier that there are things we can put off now and then finish later in order to get to the finish line on the building itself so thank you very much and hang in there thanks um one person has added their hand and uh I'm going to call on them but please this is the last this is the last comment Ken thank you Austin Ken Rosenthal 53 Sunset Avenue I only want to take a minute to say that the person who you cut off from hearing all the comments Bob Pam is a member of the Board of Trustees of the library he's the treasurer of the library I want the public to understand it I want the Press who may be listening to understand it and to uh say that by not listening to him now you have eliminated an opportunity to hear more ideas that you would need to know as you make your decision which is a very important decision so thank you very much for listening to me thanks I'm going to say again um how doing the business of the town is is a privilege uh one of the things that people have to do is they have to recognize what the charge of a group is we have our charge and uh anyone is welcome to say what they want to say so long as it's within the frame of our charge and we're happy to hear any other ideas about um repair uh in the appropriate uh in the appropriate venues okay um I think that is it so we will um we will be in touch about scheduling our next um our next meeting and again I want to thank Ellen and uh Josephine very very helpfully you've given us a lot to you've given us a lot to chew on okay this meeting is adjourned thank you thank you