okay we're recording please go ahead good afternoon everyone it's March 21st Thursday and this is a meeting of the joint Capital planning committee seeing that we have a quorum I'm going to call the meeting to order and I need to First make sure that since we're doing this virtually that everyone can hear and be heard and we have one member of the committee who said should be a little but she's due to arrive so I'm just going to call out names and just let me know let us know whether you can hear us fine Lee yes Bob hegner present Sarah Marshall here Eugene here Jennifer here anna present and did did I miss anyone I don't think so and Kathy is here so um today's agenda Sandy the review the update on The Five-Year Plan was the first item do you want to do uh the projects first I think we just had a placeholder on the agenda have to have that be first but you're muted um I didn't I'm sorry I did not know that I did not see the agenda so I um I do not have any anything to say okay then we I went ahead an update just in case we had new info but we we weren't planning on sharing it yeah no we have we have placeholders in sort of you know so it means that we can discuss it should you have had it so we we we're going right we're got going right away to um school and town it um and I believe that's Shan is that correct Shan that's would be Jerry champagne I don't know and I don't think he has anything no I don't think I think it was it was I think it was all you didn't see anything from the schools yeah there's nothing from the schools so it's it's you Sean welome thanks um so if you want me just um like we have years past just run through the yeah if you if you run through what we've done is you run through the proposals and we all got them in advance so if you have if we have questions or comments um we'll make them after I think after you've gone through them okay um so the the first one that we have um I don't know the order you have them in but um the one that we typically ask for every year is infrastructure Replacements and that's our PCS our switches um kind of all the the stuff we have on a normal replacement schedule are PCS we replace every five years our access points tend to be six plus years switches and that kind of stuff so that's in there you can see it's a little higher um this uh FY 25 than it has been in years past and in years Futures and um that's just because we're at the the fiveyear point on our um servers which run everything from our munus financial system to vision for the assessors basically everything we run inhouse runs on on these four or five servers um and so there's a there's a increase um for fi25 as a request to replace those servers just because they're they'll be five years old at that point and and the point where it makes sense to replace them and then the existing servers will basically become backup servers so with some sort of disaster they we would we would still use them but um they won't be our our primary servers so that's that item I don't know if you want me to stop between items or just run through the items um you don't have very many so why don't you do them all and then we could if that's all right yeah that I think that's sounds good to me um so the next one that I have that's another usual one is the library it equipment um that again we typically ask for that every year um this one one there is a um increased amount this year and that was an anticipation of the construction of the library um and so obviously that is not happening happening as quickly as was expected so the the increase for the library it equipment could could be pushed out to Future um a future fiscal year if it made sense um but that's basically the why you see an increase there and that's the same the same idea as the town uh infrastructure Replacements that's all the computers and switches um basically all the networking equipment over at the library and then the last one that we have in there that's um a unusual or you know one-time thing that we don't um that we ask for is a replacement for our HR applicant tracking system so right now the system we're using is part of our Civic h are which is part of our um Civic plus website um that's been that's being discontinued this September um and we have an opportunity to take the applicant tracking and move it into our munus financial system um and there's some big big advantages there that the when somebody applies for a job um it tracks um tracks all the information as far as their application their the whole process through um interview and selection but then at the end of that process because it's part of the munus system all their information they filled in as part of their application automatically feeds into munus which is our financial HR System so it um HR is pretty excited about it because it would be a big um big efficiency gain for them um and then the other part for us is it takes the Employee Self-Service which we use and then citizen self-service whichever anybody who's paid a tax bill online uses citizen self-service it moves that to a host environment um and it it takes it from being hosted in the town where we have to worry about security of it and everything else to um the vendor munus or Tyler technology our vendor will then manage that that's our our three hey so questions comments Bob yeah I'm just wondering um do do we purchase the laptops and the the servers or do we lease them and if we lease them would we save money over purchasing it's it's kind kind of like a you know it's every year you'd have to pay for it so I don't know if it would save any money at all yeah we purchased them um prior to being director um there was a time where we leased um a lot of things and Sandy Sandy or I think General Fountain may have more information about Pride Sandy but I know there were some changes as far as procurement um and what it meant to lease vers buy something um so I mean it's certainly it certainly be worth looking into again um but I think that it tends to when we looked at it last time it was a better deal for us to just buy things outright outright rather than lease them um I think I think procurement got a little bit tricky with leasing um and what what we also found is we we tend we tend to use things beyond what the lease terms would be um and about 10 years ago least Dell who we buy most of our um laptops and PCs from they switch things from being uh basically a zero doll buyout so we were kind of it's it was always kind of lease to own all of the sudden um it was a three-year lease much more like a like you would lease a car and at the end we would we either had to buy them out or or hand them back in so it got a little got a little complex for us so it be worth looking into but yeah I don't know if you again I I I only asked the question because I I don't know and didn't know know the answer and um you know I'm not sure leasing is actually cheaper in the long run than buying since you have to replace them so often so I don't know but yeah any other questions I had one and I think you answered it um I wasn't I didn't completely understand why the job application system linking it to munus created efficiencies but but what I'm hearing you say is basically you don't have to enter the same data twice you capture it once and yeah exactly and I yeah and my understanding is that takes a lot of um HR manager time getting that information from people a second time and it's it's frustrating to the people because the applicat they've already they've already filled it out once and now they're asked to fill it out again um and this will just shoot right into mun so the $25,000 brings you a new system that integrates and over time it's labor savings is the way corre way you would describe it um as the payback to the town okay yeah yep thank you yeah and you and I I think I heard you say quickly is that the the library one could be moved out since we don't need to buy more now now correct absolutely yeah yeah because that's I mean we want to make sure we have enough room to buy the new equipment um for basically the opening of the new building but obviously that's a couple years away so um so that certainly could be could be kicked out some Bob yeah I just wanted to add um yes we'd have Labor savings but actually um if there's there's a a big benefit to having not pissing off people who are applying for jobs having them you know just get get their information in and then it can be shared so I meant labor both ways Bob but even even the unpaid labor of someone trying to get a job us okay people's time saving on boths yeah it's also it's also public relations and you know making making the town more accessible yeah and make it make it look like we're not crazy that we're collecting the same information twice right you know we already gave that to you and the system we're we're running is going to expire and go away so yeah we kind of forced into it so I think that's it for our question so thank you very much for joining us yeah thank you and the next I have on the list is fire um and uh you all Jeff fire in an ambulance um or anyway whoever is speaking to our projects and you can uh you can talk to them in whatever order makes sense to you we've sure we've queued them up and we've all had them to read you've got you got got the some summaries correct yes okay good good so I mean we'll just go go go through through it and add that or or or order um and we're going to kind of jump jump that back and forth between three through three us I mean the uh some some summaries are pretty much pretty stra straight straight four four four forward here uh you know we we need need to uh repl replay playl our supply ply hose I mean that's an that's an on ongo go going thing uh Supply fly hose for for for our fire fire trucks uh so and and uh and then then we're we're going to uh down down the road replay place or ATT tacos uh thermal imaging can C cameras of course uh that's that's of course we can uh we're trying we're repl playling equipment that's reaching end and end of life uh again as as as it's explained it gives gives gives this great situation where where we add add add a fire in in in in in incident so uh next our La uh Jeff do you want to speak speak to the ambulance laptop computers and and the uh Lucas devices sure um so the computers are what we use primarily to do our ambulance patient care reporting so each of our interactions with the patient requires a report whether they get transported or refusal so this year there was 43 4,300 uh ambulance reports and that's pretty standard um so the $15,000 is recurrent cost of keeping the uh laptops up to date and current and they uh they take a fair amount of use in the field and eventually they get worn out and break down and the cost of repairing them has not been uh a worthwhile thing because computers eventually they'll uh they lose they're kind of like a car coming off a lot they lose a lot of appreciation as soon as they get used so um this is just part of our ongoing work with the ambulance service yes sir yeah sorry which project is this ambulance laptop computers $15,000 it's on page two of six we might not that in I don't that's not in our you might not have given oh really oh okay ah sorry about that thanks Sarah I was looking for that too we we got individual ones and as you had originally s oh okay I thought thought I thought thought you had had had I thought thought you had had to receive receive receive we this is the same we we use the same same 444 format that we did LA last year where we print print out some some of the summary with f photos and that I I thought thought you had had if I can just jump in for a second I do have this if I'm allowed to share my screen oh sure I'll let you you should you should we have these all in chronological order that they're listed on your spreadsheet and we can forward this to everybody later I think it helps to have visuals whenever we talk about absolutely we and I just gave you permission to share your screen all right cool let me pull this up for you uh where are we here gotta get to what I want to actually show you can you see my screen now yeah y yes talked about the hose and the cameras and now we're on uh excuse me this item the laptop there you go I will forward this with everybody after the meeting okay all right Jeff you're on these laptops are you know moderately rugged uh they're not the milspec rugged ones we bought in the past uh they're similar to what the police department buys and for some of their vehicles and uh so that's what we're asking for that's last price time last time we bought these uh early this year I think it was $2,700 give or take a little bit um and probably will'll be a price increase a share per per laptop any other questions so we didn't have that item so yeah just confirming this is for request is for three 15,000 should buy as closer to closer to five or four to five four five yeah okay thank you I'm taking so I'm trying that's problem and Kathy did you have a question too because I I they're both of you are speaking at the same time and I want make sure I didn't miss anything no it was just what Sarah pointed out this wasn't even on our list originally so but I am glad to be this is terrific because we didn't receive this either and so if you can send it to us afterwards we'll make sure it's in the well it's funny the 4444 that the town you you you uses now doesn't really allow allow us to to you know it allow allows us to put a real real short short descri descriptive on each each each each of the these things but in years past we've been able to include this particular type of for for format in in in there so now we've you know we're kind of kind of walked Walked In to what what what the town you uses and then this is and then this this we bringing bring in to help kind of uh FL fles out what what you you have so it's perfect and okay um you can always send it directly to a staff person the file and then right you want us to see it beforehand so it's that's thing I go ahead goad just saying I will send it to Athena and she can forward it to everybody yeah I I just I just just thought thought thought that we had s sent it you know I ium assume that that we we that we had but that's all right so Kathy it is on the original uh spreadsheet that we got right it just no it just wasn't for just say wasn't in the package that we got okay all right Jeff um and looking at this there probably should have been a slight update on the CPR devices I actually um when I put that in was for seven um so that number I believe is 14 $33,000 I'll go back and look and that is for seven mechanical CPR devices we currently have one of the CPR devices per each of the five ambulances and they've gone past their 10year service life we use these devices when a patient is in Cardiac Arrest um they are particularly helpful um as we transport and move people either from a house uh down a hallway in an elevator or even in the back of an ambulance which allows us to do high quality consistent CPR at the correct timing and depth um even while driving across the roadway and then allow the uh EMTs and the paramedics to maintain a safer posture as they go because otherwise it meant physically standing over a patient and trying to do CPR often with one hand and hang on to something else um the additional two that we're asking for are actually for adding to the two paramedic level engines we use and those are our first response paramedic trucks so there are times that that person is a one or two person uh response while waiting for either Mutual Aid or another ambulance to come back from the hospital uh so they are at times alone for a while this CPR device has been uh very useful and has been associated with a number of saves one one one thing I'll add I'll add that just as a rem reminder when when when we send send out our we call it emergency F First Response in an efr when when we send send that that out it's a paramedic L level uh piece of apparatus which which means that the the P Personnel on board can deliver all all of a advanced life life support Ser services with all with all with all the equ equipment that they they would need to deliver that the only only thing that that they can't can't do is trans trans is trans transport but we still put par paramedical level service at at the excuse me at the side of the P patient uh in a time time time time time fashion and at the same same time if that that the case we've all we've all already called for a mutual Aid am am ambulance to to to respond so u in the time it takes takes for that am ambulance to get get there we've provideed provide provided care and we're ready to hand hand off to to that rig when when when it does does arrive arrive on on scen I just want to make make sure that we did didn't for forget that piece S I see you have your hand up yeah so the form we have in our packet had it the the project cost changed to $160,000 so can you clarify the total number of devices and the total cost that you're requesting it's seven devices and go back and find my last quote all right um the last updated code I received on February 20th which will actually be a better number than than what I had originally is 156 31908 so that's probably rounded up to 160 in this 4 yes man there's always the anticipation they'll be some kind of price bump usually between the planning process of the doing the budget and the actual time of purchase on July 1ish sure thank you right Jeff you can go right right into into our monitors the monitors are gotten moved so we yeah yeah that's right that's right so you you may see a document that includes two uh replacement cardiac monitors we've actually asked those to be moved to the FY 26 uh budget because it looks like the there was a new version of that monitor being uh beta tested currently and is coming out and we're simply wait the extra year year and a half to uh make sure that that product is in fact doing what it's expected to do and in providing the additional uh patient care treatments that we're expecting yeah b b bottom line you don't want to buy the first year of a new new new M model while they work work and that's and that's just just the way it is I mean you just give give them a chance to work out Kinks that are going to pop pop up with a new new Mo model and then we get the quote quote quote improv the version so that's that's why why that's why why why it got pushed so Lind I'll let let why you you to chime in on the uh prot protective gear sure uh protective gear is one of those items uh that we've been asking for every year we consider to be a yearly uh request for those that are new to the committee um this now up to 50,000 because the prices have gone up is so we can keep an ongoing cycle replacement for the protective gear that all of our firefighters wear they have a maximum of a 10-year lifespan based on National standards possibly less based on use um and this is for our full-time career and student firefighters this amount of money enables us to replace 10 to 15 sets a year which develops a cycle of a 10-year replacement plan for each set of gear uh one thing I would add that we're doing behind the scenes you don't see here uh is two things there's a push in the fire service um to limit the amount that firefighters wear this gear it's kind of an odd situation that all firefighter gear has pafs in it which are believed to be cancer causing um you cannot buy any turnout gear currently that does not have that in it so it just doesn't exist yet it will someday so the movement in the fire service is to have our firefighters wear this gear the least amount of time as possible obviously they have to wear it if they're going in to fight a fire in a building but there's so many other things they do non-fire training car accidents medical calls even brush fires um where they don't need to be wearing the structural gear so they now have come out with something called non-structural gear looks almost identical but it doesn't have all the layers of protection in it to go into a fire and it has no he hals in it so the move in the fire service is to have two sets of gear for each firefighter one that they wear if they potentially going into building to fight a fire and another set they wear for everything else so through a grant from the Fire Marshal's office we are buying about 30 sets of this gear already the non-structural to start working towards getting every member the non-structural gear uh this request for the 50,000 is to continue to buy the structural gear because we have to maintain that cycle but I just want to let you know that that's going on behind the scenes Anna has her hand up on this one it's it's really just a comment um that it's it's wild to me that they have not come up with an alternative yet at this point that feels um nuts and uh then I'm glad that grants are available for the um the other gear and I appreciate y'all going out and and getting those so thank you thank you yeah the altern you know yeah you're talking about with the alternative turn turn alternative to the gear that has the p p p in in in it that's that's what what you're refer referring to yeah is that what you were said you said that there was funding available for that F yeah well and the the other feie this it's just in the last couple years that that they found that that that that's an is issue so it takes it sometimes takes the industry a while to kind of come up come up with with all turn turn turn turn turn because it it has been so ous so but the thing thing is uh this this Ty type of non structural gear uh has been out out been out been out out there for a while usually it's used used for uh Urban search resue type type type work and they're finding that you know this this can can can be used in other type of non Str structural fire fire fire work so it's beginning it's it's it's evolve evolving you know it's coming it's coming to be bear now so and then like anything else some sometimes those things move to too too too slow slow slowly but but we we were able to uh you know jump jump on uh the opportunity to you use a grant to uh get to at least least least least at least at least begin to uh you know to obtain uh that that type type type of gear so folks fol folks won't be exposed exposed to that those uh those possible car car syens over over a longer Peri per period of time great thank you yeah this this will be be a a Jeff Jeff thing yep so this is a EMS IV infusion pump basically it's a medication pump uh more and more of the medications that are available to us according to our Statewide treatment Protocols are requiring the use of a pump which gives us a uh more specific uh treatment dosing for the patients and we're looking for seven total of these five for the ambulance and two for the two uh paramedic level engines I would add jefff I didn't include it on this list here this would come out at EMS receipts also correct yeah this would be certainly a viable EMS receipts item um as with the uh Lucas devices um so both of those are very applicable to that Sarah yeah tell me again who's Rec who is requiring that you use these devices rather than ad State the State Office of Emergency Medical Services is pushing more and more of the medications that are available to us they haven't mandated it yet but UL it's just good patient care um and really the difference between the two is that one of our Medics if I was doing a an infusion a drip that you might see if you were in a hospital they all of theirs are plugged into a pump and they are very specific in how they they give those we give those by watching and counting numbers of drips calculating a flow based on volume and concentration and all those things so we're going to try to let technology make us better at what we do and do patient better patient care I think one one of the hallall Hallmarks of this depart part department is that they they've always been looked down down down down the road to see what what's what's coming and what's what's what's at at The Cutting Edge and that's and that's and that's that's one one good thing and and the other side side of this is that at some some point this will be a man a man man a man mandate so it's trying trying to stay stay ahead of ahead of ahead of the curve ahead ahead of where where where where're in in front of where the state state state is is going and staying out in front in terms of pay pay pay patient care that again I've always I've always been impressed by the that that's one of the things that that this this this department is really really good good good at Lind this is your your your bit baby okay uh and the police department so this item here um I can't have the whole thing on the screen at once I'll just go to the one with the photos um obviously this is a big ticket item as things go um this is a replacement essentially of the infrastructure and the what we call the subscriber units the units in the field um I want to make it clear this is both a police and fire joint venture um there's two components to this the first component is replacing the infrastructure so we're talking about the base stations for both police and fire both departments although on different Radio Systems 1 VHF one UHF uh most of our base stations are collocated so they're places like Mount Lincoln the north fire station uh soon the Tower Library UMass Etc um those devices which you see picture bottom left there that's an example of a base station um those are now end of life according to our vendor meaning you cannot buy parts for them there's they have to scavenge parts to keep them running and we have had a couple failures over the last year that Doug giri and I deal with for our respective departments so they've informed us that they can't tell us how much longer they're going to be able to keep those base stations going so the first half of this is to replace those stations but as part of that we are also looking at improving our coverage both police and fire do have gaps parts of town where we have poor perception primarily from portable radios we paid for uh studies covered studies this past summer so gust toown Communications which is our radio vendor they came out uh they did studies they did mapping of what our current sites are providing coverage and recommendations for adding deleting changing sites so we have all those site Maps based on that they they've given us recommendations as to where our base station should be we don't have a single one we have multiple sites listening throughout the town for our people out in the field so we have that new plan as to where radio should be um and they've given us obviously a quote for what it would cost both to replace these aging units and to improve the system to maximize our coverage around town the second part of this the proposal is to replace the subscriber units where essentially the mobile radios and the portable radios are out in the field for in the cars and in firefighter and police offic hands uh some of those are already new in both departments but many of them are old and need to be replaced we've been slowly doing some of them over the last few years if you look at your Capital plans for the last couple years we are proposing that any future radios Portables and mobiles that are purchased be what we call triband which means that they are VHF UHF and 800 megahertz and the reason for that is more and more all the agencies surrounding us are on these different bands uh Franklin County has gone strictly 800 megahertz Northampton is about to go 800 megahertz places like us in Hadley belch toown continue to be VHF UMass is UHF so to have interoperability the ability for everybody to hear and talk to everybody else uh the standard these days really used to have trib band radios um so we're also that's part of our proposal so this as listed would replace for the 1.9 million would replace the infrast structure and all the necessary subscriber units uh for both police and fire um I know that someone had mentioned leas in earlier I think in the it conversation they do offer a leasing option for this equipment I don't know if the town is willing to entertain that I do have some prices on that if um the committee Sandy wants to look at that I do have that available yeah Eugene you know I'm gonna wait for everyone else and I'll call myself if you don't ask it so uh Eugene then Bob I just had a a quick question it is a it is a big ticket item but it seems super necessary what happens to all the old equipment does that have any market value is that something that could be sold for other or to other departments that maybe don't have the capital and need to actually scavenge if you could talk to a little bit about the disposition of the old equipment sure um as a general role the answer is no um you know we we run it to like I said end of life so the base stations um really have no value um other than some parts might get scavenged by the vendor for you know another department that's limping along the mobiles and Portables we typically run pretty much to end of life also there might be a very small tradeing value there and that's something we would certainly look to negotiate with the vendor when we uh do the upgrade if they'll give us a trade in value for some of the equipment okay thank you yeah I I would like to to see um the um the lease um expenses over time I know it's probably more than 1.9 million over five years but it might be more doable for the town to to expend the you know do the expenditures at a lower level for for five years when I send this summary that we're looking at now to Athena I'll include that simp PR short simple spreadsheet it's got that number on it I will send that along as well thank you so I I'm I'm going to follow up on Bob so on the lease after if you spread it over five years do we own it after five just going to pull that up right here just so we have it in front of us so um the answer to your question is uh yes I believe we do own it I'd want to check the parameters of that with the vendor CU we've never actually done that before um but if you look at this here this gives you a rough breakdown of the cost you'll see the top line is infrastructure so that's about half the total cost to this proposal then the mobiles and Portables are about the other half off to the right there you'll see the leasing figure they gave us um at least for the infrastructure and I'll I'll include this along when I send it to Athena okay and my my second question is you're uh you've got a syst with Portables that works for two large departments would it make make any sense that um for the other Public Safety group we have Crest to be on the same system in in terms of radio frequency and I don't know how much that requires a separate linkage to the base or is that just the mobile units um so it's a and Crest was not mentioned in terms of um coordinating this and I know the dispat dispatch system is going to be increasingly dispatching to the group so that is my question sure so a couple things I'll say to that it's it's somewhat of a complex technical answer I don't want to spend too much time on it but it's a good question um the biggest issue would say putting Crest on quote this system would be they would need their own channel or frequencies and those you have to get from the FCC so when when CR started going back ways it was looked at can they be on the police system can they be on the fire system due to call volume and Logistics it was decided that no they really couldn't just jump on either one of our frequencies is more the issue than the system um so as we replace this system technically could there be a VHF or a UHF frequency that Crest used yes um but we would have to get those from the FCC and that is increasingly difficult and the big B issue is you would need a base station all the places we currently have police and fire base stations to listen throughout town for our signals you would have to have another radio listening from crest's Channel if that makes sense so you basically instead of having one two Bas stations you need three for every location so it'd be a huge uh cost increase what we actually did for the crest program uh myself and Doug GE um Doug Gary and um Bill Glover from it worked on this there we settled on a firstnet pusht talk system which is really a a cellular based system and honestly that has worked phenomenally well for them it has great coverage it's incre uh incredibly less expensive both for the devices there's a monthly subscription fee and although I can't speak directly for the crest team I think the communication piece of their puzzle is working quite well um so it's probably not cost effective to try to put them on to a r radio system given what they have now that's working very well and I'll and I'll try CH chime in you know doing a lot a lot of work work with with Crest the the Pres system that they have uh communication system is it is it is it is it it is working you know uh and and it should should work work work work for the work well for the for future so thank you Bob yeah I just um I have a question about the base stations and and and where where I started out was um I think it would be great over time if we could have agreements so that we'd all be on the same system you know everybody would be on Northampton system or whatever every in other words if we wouldn't have separate systems UMass police fire um but would that still require a separate um base station for police versus fire or could you if you were to have only one system would you be able to reduce the number of Base stations um the only way you could reduce it is if we went to what's called an 800 megahertz um trunk system which is what Northampton is doing um then basically you put in one system that has multiple channels that are shared back and forth behind the scenes um that is doable you're talking F you know a few million dollar system for that um we briefly discussed that with our vendor and given our needs uh for V for fire for VHF for distances we decided that wasn't really doable and the police had their reasons they didn't think that was an effective way to go um and by what I mean by that is you know we're sending ambulances down to Baye state in Springfield and up to uh Franklin County to uh bayate Franklin Franklin Medical um so we need long distances there's also some issues about using 800 MHz for fire ground operations uh with firefighters in the building versus VHF so an 800 mahz system which would be a massive rebuild you would basically every single piece of radio equipment we have right now base stations mobiles Portables pagers would be obsolete we would have to start from scratch with every single piece of equipment so the price tag would be enormous um so this this solution here uh the police are overall happy with UHF we're happy with VHF buying the triband radios where we can in fact talk to any other department with the right programming um with the solution that we settled on okay fair enough thank you you know and know you know I'm I'm not not the radio guy the little Lindsay is in 8 800 100 Meg is a great great system and all that but I I I always have a fear when you have a s single point of fail fail fail fail fail or that's that that always scares scares scares scares me you know so that's another reason why to have you know separas systems because if I mean if if the big big one comes you can all there are times where you could you could come in and and share some someone else's system but that's just a it's just a a thing thing a thing with with me so anyone else excuse me Lindsay on when you send this in with the lease price could you also confirm that after that amount of time we'd own it yes okay thank you I will forward this immediately to Athena today but then I'll get the answer to that and pass it on to her okay thank you very much I believe the police department when they do their presentation which I don't think you've had yet they'll talk about this also obviously from their standpoint are there any other you oh right did that ends your your piece no we have one more you have one more okay go for leaves okay yep talk about this or do you want me to yeah I I'll I'll try try chime in but yeah this is this is this is yours okay um so this is uh to purchase another hybrid we purchased our first hybrid uh two years years ago um this is to replace a 2007 Ford 500 um that's actually off the road right now because it wouldn't Pass State Inspection that's the car on the left the car on the right is just an example of what we would be purchasing uh State contract uh with apd's help they're the ones that buy a lot of these um we have a we basically have six staff vehicles in the department um three are assigned to the chief officers myself Jeff and the chief um then we have one fire fire prevention officer which is a hybrid and 09 escape and then the captain in each station has one when they're on duty um so the one at the North Station is out of service now that's the to 20 uh 2007 Ford 500 our proposal would be another hybrid uh Explorer uh to put into the mix um and replace that vehicle that's currently off the road and when we do something like this typically uh the vehicle the newer vehicle would go to one of the chief officers and then there would be a hand me down to the uh the captains at the station we've had good luck so far with the 09 Escape knock on wood and Jeff currently has our first hybrid Explorer which Jeff I think is working out okay for us yeah it's worked very well any questions Anna sorry um I was a little further from my mute button than I wanted to be can you talk to me about the decision to go hybrid versus is fully electric is it because of charging infrastructure or was there another reason um in terms of the vehicle choice that you needed um honestly we're following along in the footsteps of APD they you know they're buying these and we tag along on what they're buying um we have not looked heavily into the all electric and I'm not sure I can't even tell you if the alectric Explorer is available or not no no no no it's not it's not it's not yet no so I think my question is because APD often I I will FYI Gabe I'll be asking you the same question um but I think the answer that we typically get from APD is that their cars are are required to have some level of crash rating um that there aren't electric cars that have yet or something something along those lines I'm seeing I'm seeing another APD person nodding at me so maybe I got that one right um I can a question if you need to that's okay I I'm gonna ask it to you in in five minutes so um but I I think my question is does the fire department have a similar requirement or is there a reason why Ford Explorers are your vehicle of choice beyond beyond just that that's what the fire the police department is um they're definitely our vehicle of choice and that's for a variety of reasons we used to use a Sans like the 4D 500 we're purchasing um and we ran we run into two issues the you know we bring all our turnout Gear with us and other equipment for fire scene command so the back of on a vehicle like an explorer has the space for that uh the thing about the Explorers is because they are used so widely in the fire and police services the um you know light bars the center consoles for radios everything is by and large sold for that you can buy them for other vehicles or have them custom made but that's the platform of choice these days in public safety so there's a cost and efficiency savings to have them outfitted when you put the radios in the lights in the sirens in ETC because so many agencies you know from the state police to police to fire are using uh this vehicle the other thing the all electric conceptually we're certainly not against um one issue you do run into on all electric as you know is charging stations yeah now you're looking at needing charging stations at the fire station in the case of the chief officers where we do take them home now we' be looking at charging stations at our homes and you get into a whole another venue of how's that's going to work who's going to pay for it um which I have heard some other agencies about and honestly it's sort of a quagmire I'm not sure we want to get into right now and the the other pie piece too is uh we we we use we use use these vehicles as a mobile command command command command command post so you're at at a scene you're not you're you're no no nowhere near Char charging station and and the these can be some long long term in in in in incidence you've got all and you've got got your equipment to run run in an incident and you know the the uh the items you're using that's a big that can be a very very very big p p power power draw and that and and you know you want want to be be able to depend on on on on on your vehicle to use as your command command command post over over a long long a long Peri Peri per period of time the last thing you want to be conc concerned about is is is oh am I going to run out or run R out of run out run out of P power power at a say critical time or whatever long long term so and that's and that's one one of the the other re re re reasons I mean I I think High High High High Hybrid is the way way to go that you it's sort of six and one half of dozen of another another another it's getting to where we we should should be but in my in my experience and what I I've seen the you know the all electric type type type vehicle that that that that we we would need it's it's not there yet I'm sure down down down down the road will will will be but I think go going high high highd is is is is is way way way to go go right right right now it's you know it's crawl walk run so I hear you um I I will say and this might just be me I do not buy the argument about range because I think that when we're looking at an average daily range of 250 miles I guess if y'all are covering 250 miles in a day in one vehicle I I'm impressed hang on hang on Chief but I think that the I think what I would ask of you is to consider this as like in your long long range planning on vehicles I do think this is the direction we're going I'm not saying it's this year I'm not saying it's even in the next three years but I think that this is a direction that I would love the department to consider as you're thinking about long-term planning for this type of vehicle specifically for it this year hybrid's fine I think I just wanted to plant that seed for yall well yeah but I but I said I said I think that this is the way to go all electric at some point I said said said that that that down down down range that is the way way way way to go and that's why I said crawl walk run we're get get get we're get get getting there and it's not and what I what I was talking about was not about range I I was talk talk about sustain suain avilability for our equipment on a scene during an in in in in in if you're talk talking about range you can find find Char Charing St St stations all over the place what I'm what I'm talking about is for at aene which doesn't have H have one you want to be you want to have uh be be able to depend on your equipment still being a operational for a long-term event yeah so it's I it's drawing on power so it's drawing down I understand I I do understand that I think that it's I I do think the comparison could be made to running out of gas right I I I think that it's a it's a valid question to ask when we get to that point and I look forward to the Run phase of that um process great any other questions on this um you know my question originally was about EXC price tag but I understand what you're getting is something that has all the other pieces added to it already it's not just a car but it's a car with sirens and radios and and a lot of other Sarah yeah um the estimated life is 10 years I'm I'm hoping that's pessimistic because that's a lot of money for I mean Vehicles should be lasting a lot longer that than that these days so yeah well to that end um like said we are replaced an ' 07 Ford 500 um so obviously we got the 15 or more years out of that and on the Explorer packages technically are a little bit beefier vehicle being an SUV um so yes I would hope that you're right about that that we would get closer 12 to 15 years or so out of it at least you oh no I have a question for Sandy um Sandy do you have a vehicle list for us by any chance I was going to say I don't think I saw in the packet but if I missed it that's on me no it's not in the packet yet um I worked on it EXC yesterday thinking I could get it done in an hour and I was not able to so I do not have a uh a list um although I am getting closer to it okay I'm sorry no it's okay and that informs my um any other questions I might have so no worries thank you thank you so I suggest we move to police unless there are any other question questions on this set and we can thank the people from Fire EMS who don't need to be here for the police if you would like leave you can you're you're welcome to stay as well all right no thanks thanks thank thanks thank thanks again G for have we pre pre appreciate the time so all right thank you very much and thank you I thought it was very helpful to get the the pictures in the longer absolutely than providing that all right no problem thank you evees drop for a little bit that's they want to make sure I asked that same question to the police they're like don't hold us to that different standard I'm just kidding he's gotta help bail me out that's what we do all the time pal so so so you you all are up and you can uh I don't know whether you've brought something to present we did see the short list of you know the several sentences that came in with the request from the original sheet so it's up to you to figure out which order you want to present these so I can chime in um you have that brief list and I figur that uh that it'd be better if we discussed them each item uh unfortunately the fire department showed us up with uh bringing nice photos and whatnot and I'm going to steal that from them for next time around um but we do want uh if you have that list in front of you uh originally that list had eight items I believe a couple of those uh items are scratched out because um uh from my understanding the capital requests need to be over 10,000 and those requests did not fall within those guidelines so they're they've been scratched out um but I will talk about I did bring along a couple of our subject experts which is Officer Doug giri and Captain Ron young and they will be able to chime in on some of these to be able to give you uh um the best accurate picture of what we're looking at um so the first one I want to talk about is our hybrid vehicles and I obviously that's uh something that uh was just discussed with the fire department so I think we'll be able to answer some of those questions as well and um I am going to turn that over to Doug giri to kind of provide us with an explanation in terms of what we're requesting for that Doug yeah so uh usually we're on a replacement cycle for uh usually three cars every year and then on that fourth year we do uh a fourth vehicle so 334 so we were pretty much on that schedule all the way up until fiscal year 21 which was going to be a four car year and obviously Co hit and everything in capital was canceled so we were uh put behind four cars in a in that replacement year uh Chief Livingstone the following year when we uh when we re-engaged Capital um it would turn back into a three car year uh for the following years for 22 23 and 24 so to make up for those he had requested four cars for each one of those years of which in 22 we did get four 23 we did get four and then or 23 we got four and then 24 we requested four and then that got reduced to three so from the zero year in fiscal year 21 um we're basically down three vehicles in our replacement cycle so due to that we definitely have uh I'm just referring to my notes one two three four five six vehicles that are exceeding well over 100,000 miles and are definitely not reliable vehicles as we should need them we actually had one of these vehicles responding to a head-on uh motor vehicle crash a couple weeks ago the car failed and uh stopped running and uh that officer couldn't respond to that call so we had have a district car from another farther away District respond to that so it definitely is affecting our response due to not having um reliable cars that was one of our older ones we do have two hybrid Patrol response Vehicles right now and they've been running great um definitely doing their job uh we do have uh one two three I think we have four uh Patrol or uh admin hybrid vehicles and they've been working great so to add on to the the hybrid technology with uh police vehicles Ford is really the only manufacturer that has made a police I can't really call it just place a a heavyduty public safety use vehicle that's the reason why the the fire department wants to use them because they're built with a purpose uh they're heavyduty Motors heavy duty brakes heavyduty alternator uh heavy duty Hybrid battery um and like I like the chief said from the fire department we are kind of in the crawl stage right now we're not in a run because hybrid technology for Public Safety Vehicles has not met the standard yet for Public Safety use there are some out there that say they are but they're not I know hybrid or uh Northampton police bought a hybrid Ford hybrid pickup truck they used it for a short period of time and the battery life did not last they ended it giving it to their um to some other department within town and it it's again it spends a lot of time on the charger and not as much time on the road so for a public safety approach this is a a safer approach but we're definitely embracing uh electric vehicle technology as it as it applies um to Public Safety as when that moment becomes available so uh another problem we're having is um when the hybrid vehicle technology came out for police vehicles obviously the price jump was significant um it it basically went up by 20 to $25,000 because this was brand new technology and the problem is now since covid and supply chain issues and the high demand for hybrid technology throughout the nation and out the world batteries are at a at a very high premium right now to get so as every year has gone up the prices have gone up and we're we're up to with our cars are have multiple technology lights radio siren um portable battery chargers incar video systems uh mobile data computers radar units so we have a high demand for electric current in our cars so again if we had all electric that wouldn't last very long especially if we were an emergency scene so these hybrid cars are really uh they're working they're not flawless I do have some we have significant amount of issues but they're they've been resolved um but definitely would not be able to do an all electric vehicle anytime soon so as I said the prices have increased um when we first started this back in uh the first car was in 2020 uh it was around $65,000 and that was even short because I didn't even have correct figures at the time because it was such new technology it bumped up we're up to like 80 85,000 or 880,000 and now Ford is telling us that the price is going to go up again due to Hybrid battery shortage so if we want to stay with the hybrid batter or hybrid police vehicles that price is going to increase I know it's up to $90,000 per vehicle the 320 um that's just to make sure that if we're going to stick with hybrid vehicle technology that we have enough money to buy them because if we come come up short then I'm scrambling to find out how we're going to pay for the difference also another issue is is we usually trade in our vehicles so I try to maintain our vehicles to a high standard so when they trade in they get a high tradein value um due to co we've held on to these cars a lot longer than we've needed to so they're older in model year and they're higher in mileage so typically cars that I would get three or four or $5,000 for are now around $2,000 to $1,500 because of that delayed in purchase time and it's it's been a really tough challenge I know with the crest Vehicles we ordered Tred to get Crest cars for Crest that took me almost a year and a half just to get plugin hybrid Ford Escapes because the demand was so high for hybrid technology and luckily I got that was able to to secure some so we're I'm still waiting on cars that I ordered back in fiscal year 21 for 22 they're just starting to come in now um and be built to arrive from Ford and starting to be built at the upfitter so it's it's a it's a challenge um definitely up to the challenge to to maintain the hybrid um uh technology obviously for for the cause and the green communities uh issue we have here in town so again like I said the $90,000 or the $320,000 seems a lot higher I'm just trying to project a buffer in case the prices get higher that we have the money to buy them as opposed to undercutting them and then we go to buy them and then we have to figure out how to how to purchase those can I ask a question yeah sure sure thank you um so the the submitt I'm looking at says four vehicles for $320,000 so that's 80 $80,000 each are you saying you would like 90 to be sure well yeah ex I must I didn't I don't think I updated my uh my uh my numbers here yeah so it should be 90 I'm sorry so 360 Yes 360 and are these Patrol Vehicles so so the majority of these are will be Patrol vehicles um some of them will will replace some of our admin cars and we do based upon the condition of the vehicles at the time um I make a decision on what cars have the highest um uh need to be replaced in regards to reliability and safety So currently uh we have two K9 officers that have patroled uh dogs they're both of their vehicles one of them is a 2015 Ford Explorer nonhybrid just a gas and he's up at 134,000 Miles right now and the thing that worries me about them is that their cars idle a lot be to keep the dog either cool or warm but depending on the on the uh on the weather and their engine hours are huge so right now they're gas so it's burning straight gas if they have a hybrid the hybrid to gas running is usually a 1/3 to 2/3 it's usually 2/3 in hybrid mode battery and 1/3 in gas which basically acts as a generator to recharge the battery to go back in hybrid mode so that one 2015 is already got has 134,000 and we have another one that's a 2018 he's already up to about 105,000 so my my concern is that at least these two vehicles I know I want to replace because there's obviously a lot at stake here with with an animal being in the in the vehicle and then we have some standard Replacements with some other other vehicles of of which one's at 118 another one's at 110 another one's at 115 so these vehicles are also out of warranty at this point so any repairs are straight out of pocket where they're warrantied up to 100,000 miles so probably eight out of 10 repairs I make are usually covered under warranty the big ticket items the little stuff is little but the big ticket items motor transmission emissions any of that kind of stuff is covered under that warranty and that's why Ford um is big in the in the in the public safety hybrid vehicle market so I see Anna and Bob um so okay two qu first off uh there was something happening outside my house last night and my dog clearly had aspirations of being a uh Kine officer because she or you call the dogs Canan officers anyway uh she her head was fully out the window staring down those cars um my one of my questions is that there are certainly many benefits to switching to hybrid or electric vehicles um for the environment but one of the other benefits hypothetically is cost savings on gas um and I'd love to hear if you have any data on Since switching to hbd Vehicles if there have been cost Savings in that in that effect um so that's question one which hopefully is is simple either yes you have them in you can tell me or not no not yet and then my other question is um in 2022 uh East Hampton started buying Teslas and uh it's been a couple years since East Hampton has bought Teslas and they also have bought I think a Mustang that was fully electric and I'd love to hear I am I'd like to be very clear I am not pitching I do not want us to be buying Teslas um but I would like to hear if you know anything about how that has worked for them and I believe the reason I'm asking is I believe that they bought it with the intent of it being the primarily the parking enforcement not kind of one of the regular fleet Fleet vehicles in that sense um but I'd love to hear if you know how that is working um again I am not proposing it mostly asking from your expertise if if you I'll take a Tesla Anna I specifically said I was not I should have said I'm not getting uh Captain Ting or chief I'll take the Mustang interim Chief I don't know what to call you anymore I'm not getting Gaba Tesla but uh anyway um but I am curious if you got any thoughts so I I remember when East Hampton uh went to the Teslas uh Chief Livingstone did come to me and talk to me about that um I don't know if they were in a moment where they had to buy electric because somebody said they had to buy electric um okay they did I know that the chief has assigned one there you go Gabe and the detective Bureau has one um the Mustang is new to me I don't I haven't talked to anyone recently so I didn't know if they got a Mustang Maki and what they're using it for um they do they Ford says the the Maki is they can you can use it for police work um the problem I see with it a is um it's not purpose buil built for police work so it's it's again just a civilian use car MH um the difficulty is too is that the equipment you need to put in these cars isn't always specific to that vehicle like they do for the for the Ford Explorer um so it's difficult in that way and the warranties for this don't aren't like the ones for the police vehicle so the police vehicle has that 5year 100,000 mile warranty where these are 3 years 30 6 miles Bumper to Bumper and maybe to 70 on like the powertrain so then you start rolling the dice here if you start because these are basically rolling computers it's a computer with two electric motors wrapped in a shell of metal or aluminum or whatever you want to call it so when they go bad they go really bad really really quick so if you don't have that warranty now you're shelling out the big money to figure out why it doesn't work another reason the Teslas and I brought this up to Chief Livingstone was the Teslas again they don't really make police equipment for Teslas so you have to do all this weird creative stuff to retrofit it again Tesla doesn't say hey this is this is a police certified vehicle right and we're going to warrantee it if you have a problem because then you'll have a problem they'll come back and say well all the radios and the radar units and the computers are causing your problem now you're up in the air like okay well it's really is it really that or not they use it as an excuse where Ford says this is a purpose-built vehicle designed to take all this electronic equipment and also part of this too is Ford says that the Ford Explorer police interceptor is certified for Pursuit rated and I know Pursuit is not a good word what basically what's that saying is it's designed to go faster and drive drive at a at a higher performance than your average Ford Explorer so if you bought a Ford Explorer at your dealership it's suspension its motor its brakes aren't the same so the safety component of that uh the police rated one is has all that equipment and like you mentioned before it has a rear impact rating of 75 miles an hour so if that officer is sitting on the side of the road and somebody runs into the back of them that car is going to absorb that energy before it's going to significantly hurt that officer and we've all seen the pictures on the news especially with the state police of cars getting hit from behind if you open up the back of that car and opened up the floor there's they put these extra metal cross beams in the rear of the car to absorb that where the a regular Explorer doesn't have that nor with a Tesla nor with a Mustang I think it's it's interesting to have East Hampton as a test case even though again it's not something that I'm certainly not something I would be proposing um but but I think it's interesting to have East Hampton as a test case specifically when it comes to questions around um I I say range meaning including idling time um I do think that that would be a good question to ask in terms of their usage of those Vehicles as we look forward um to many years down the road if we're getting to a point of of running um and then yeah my other question was um G uh savings on on gas if you know of that so we haven't really done a gas assessment yet because like I said we got our first one in fiscal year 20 and 21 so basically we wanted to build a few years of gas um data and take a look and see how um the usage between our current gas Fleet and our current hybrid Fleet and kind of compare what they were uh replaced by so you had our previous gas vehicles and we want to inse that so we're going to definitely pull that data from the fire department at some point here and try to see where our fuel savings is I don't know the cost uh Captain young deals with the finances in regards to the fuel so he might be able to shed some light on if we spent more money and fuel less money or what have you so yeah definely something I'm interested in myself thank you I know you had said twoth thirds Hybrid onethird gas and so I was curious about the savings given that approximate um usage percentage thank you right I would love to know that um even if it's not an exact price breakdown I think it'd be helpful to know the usage roughly if that's definitely I'm curious myself and one thing with the tussels too so the chief and the detectives they usually have a couple lights and a radio they usually have nothing else in their car it's pretty simple so it's going to be hard for me to compare a patrol use vehicle super Fair AB a very to a very um simple design in regards to how we set those cars up and one other thing I want to just add while we're on it um with Teslas there's no repair facility so if you need to fix a Tesla you have to go out in eastern Mass somewhere far deep out in yeah in the 495 128 Loop area because they're so prevalent there we're here we don't even have a dealership here so when I deal with Ford Ford actually has a dedicated uh mechanical division just for police Public Safety vehicles in the Worcester area which is only an hour drive for me and and the turnaround time on repairs is extremely quick sometimes the same day based upon any issue so if the Tesla we did that it'd be a total nightmare for anyone to anyone to have to try to fix or repair those cars thanks if you have any other feedback from East Hampton folks just generally less less Tesla specific more just electric specific I'm i' I'd love to hear thank you okay great y so I see Bob's hand is up there were two others but maybe they're not up anymore Bob yeah I just got a little confused about how many vehicles you'll need each year uh if you could give us a you know a spreadsheet to show you know when you order them when you get them whether it's a patrol car or a chief car you know that would be very helpful to see the picture over five years sure okay thank you okay I think we can move on to the next project okay uh so the second that second item that we have uh on my list is uh a new records management system so the records management system that we currently operate is IMC uh that's the name of the company and the last time that uh we had switched over to IMC was 2003 so it's quite um our systems old and a little bit Antiquated and I'm going to turn it over to Captain young to kind of discuss uh you know why we are seeking a new records management system Ron everyone um full disclosure before I um and I won't talk as much as Doug I promise um the um full disclosure before we get going that we are in the early stages of this and we're just beginning our research um you know as as Chief Ting it said the current system that we're utilizing is almost a quarter of a century old and so we we have a history of of holding on these for a long period of time um and so we we want to make certain that we do the proper research to find out find a system that's not only robust but has some longevity to it um the as just very quickly the the history of IMC it was a Massachusetts state it was a Massachusetts located business and uh it was very popular and prevalent here in New England when it first came on board at some at one point between police and and fire something like 85% of all munici alties utilized IMC and and frankly I was here when it first got here it was a great system it was it was a far cry from what we're using it was an old PC uh slave type system that went back to a central database and it was it was far more intuitive than we were using at the time um but as As Time Gone by it's aged um records management is becoming more challenging for us and I just jotted down a couple of things that that we've noticed over the last decade or so one of things of course we've gone to a digital system so all of our photography uh fingerprinting systems uh videot type evidence things that we use to not only you know complete and investigate crimes but also things is something as basic as how we hand out permits are all done in digital way and it eats up an an enormous amount of volume in the um in our records management system most of these records were required to to keep uh for a lifetime and if not there's a schedule that's established by the superintendent of public records many of you are probably familiar with that and so it these aren't these aren't records that we can delete on a read ready readily basis there are some public paper records that we can delete based on a on a system that's Outline by the state but they're very few um the integration system that we have it doesn't it doesn't work well it doesn't play well with others um because the because the DAT the system's a little dated um there have been some patches our it Department's great obviously but there are some patches some things that we've been able to do and some workarounds but it doesn't work well with our scheduling software it doesn't talk at all with munus and some of those things um we uh we we fed the number of Records requests on a regular basis um something as simple as as you know meeting with you folks and questions that you might have about our activity um certainly when we meet with the town manager and then there are public records that we're that request on the regular basis about things that we do in the agency number of number of stops number of arrests um you name it we received requests on it on a weekly basis the system was not designed to mine that data very well um some of the newer systems that are out there integrate um or or lend themselves I I I should say to being able to not only use that data for Crime processing for Public Safety related issues but also for public records requests we can mine the DAT data so much easier I've gone on a couple of demos to some of the larger agencies and see what they do and how they do things um things that would take me hours they can do in minutes um the the price that you see there is a rough estimate based on what current market standards are um as I said we've started the we've started the um again we're thinking long range here we we we started in looking what some of these systems that would meet our needs would be and that is a a rough ballpark of what some of the agencies are paying with today today's prices um that includes data migration so and which actually I I learned something about this just recently that the system that we would purchase and would be supported by it Department would be roughly about half or two-thirds of the price and the rest of it would be for data migration so things that we you know things that we took on board like arrest reports for instance a number of years ago we're required to Main maintain those records arrest reports a great example that's a lifetime a lifetime requirement have to keep that forever so that migration component as we move forward and investigate this future you know further for the for a future decision is going to be an enormous enormous U part of this the biggest issue that we have here is the support so again I don't want to bore people with a history lesson but IMC was originally as I said was a Massachusetts or New England based uh organization it's been sold half a dozen times over the last 10 years or so it's now owned by a corporation called for square which is based in rural Pennsylvania um they've made it abundantly clear that they will not support IMC much Beyond a three to five year window so I I wish I wish that uh a member of our it Department was here because they could bail me out um in this area but what that basically means is some of the fixes that are required um will will not be for coming at some point there's a finite life to to this program and the support we're going to receive from for square a great example of that is post right so post is a relatively new thing that in the policing world and the way we capture data and Report data um post had some very specific requirements on what they wanted and how they wanted it and it was a very big challenge for IMC to even meet those standards they were very reticent they were slow to the punch there was some frustrations at post end and obviously in the policing end so that we could be in compliance with what this CMR regulates so again the the system that we have now isn't currently broken um what we're using is is working um but it it there's an end of life and it's anticipated Chief Ting and I discussed this actually goes back when Chief Livingstone were still here we started planning this thinking strategically that this is going to have to be something that the committee is aware of and it is going to it's a large ticket item and it's a cost that we're going to have to endure the town's going to have to endure at some point I'm open for questions thank you I see Sarah's hand us up I'm curious about it sounds like a huge amount of data that needs to be stored forever so where and how is it stored and who is I mean data can actually go bad over time so what is is part it how do you how does the new system if you know because you haven't chosen it going to handle all that so one of one of the things and it's actually in a odd sort of way it's it's it's a good thing that we've had the system for as long as we've had because as cloud-based systems have evolved the security measures that are in place have evolved so a lot of this will be stored in the cloud so you know currently right now we store it all locally and um we had we had a data we had a data breach a couple years ago um not not a release of information out but in terms of our internal storage where we thought that we had lost a large portion of our data because of a failure a hardware failure that had occurred in the T luckily we have a great it system they were able to recover it we have a backup system in place um but that's a long answer for saying the majority of it will be stored securely in the cloud other questions that was a lot easier than I thought it would be thank you very much you know um you know I I know the Sandy the list that adds up to a total has been evolving over time you know initially this was on a list maybe rightly or wrongly for next year rather than this year so my only question is is this essential for the coming you know this coming fiscal year um or could it since you're still exploring could it wait until FY 26 I don't want to speak for the chief but I I do not believe that it's essential for this company year um we uh I actually think would be premature if we try to try to do it this coming year because we certainly wouldn't have enough information understanding that it's not only just a large ticket item but the community is going to be utilizing this for hopefully a quarter of a century or more it it I don't think it would be wise for us to rush into this we need to explore it we need to investigate it we need to produce the best package not again it's it's not just for the police right it's it's a community- based package there's a lot of information that share with our brothers at the fire department with the crest Department um and we you know we have to we have to deal with some of the public records requests on the regular basis um no I I I again Chief I don't want to speak on your behalf but I don't I don't think we'd be prepared to do this in this coming F I'll tell you I'm in in total agreement with what you had to say there Ron uh you know the way that another aspect that we're trying to look at is you know a lot of departments across the Commonwealth are in the same boat and so they are starting to some departments are starting to pick up on new companies and whatnot so we're kind of waiting to see which systems are out there that are working because it is a big ticket item and it is as important as we think it is we want to sure we want to make sure that we make the right choice so we're going to let these other departments make the mistakes first and then uh and we'll learn from them and then we'll be able to pick the correct system that that works for all of us so so I'm in total agreement I think it can weight uh it's not dire at this point but is something that that uh we have to look towards down the road thank you so you have um you have a few others I'm just few uh the the next item uh at hand is a backup UHF uh repeater at afd North so basically what we are looking for is uh a Communication Center our communication Center kind of Lacks a secondary uh system so everything is stored up in our Dispatch Center if something if something catastrophic happened and our Dispatch Center went down we would be in trouble so we're looking for a secondary site um which is afd north which we have some portable units there but we want something that's a little more fixed a little more stable and again I'm gonna I'm going to direct this to Doug Gary who's our expert on this to kind of explain that system go ahead Doug yeah so currently as uh CH Tang explained currently we have some backup workstations at afd North so if something happened here that the the Communication Center uh they couldn't work here they could actually move up to the fire department and actually use those workstations to do all their communication and regards to receiving phone calls dispatching police and fire and EMS and it would work fine but it would work over our current radio system so that as uh assistant chief Lindsey strongin spoke before we have a radio system structure so basically that would just be like say if uh a toaster caught on fire in their kitchen it was full of smoke they could leave that room leave that go to the fire department and run the same system in a remote setting what this request is for is for a totally small Standalone system that if our radio system failed completely the whole structure and our communication Center could not dispatch uh police they could relocate to uh the fire department uh the North Station and have a totally separate Standalone radio that would be able to tr to rece transmit and receive Communications from the dispatch to us um so it's again it's a fail safe so if our big system fails this is a small system not as robust but it would be something better than nothing currently the fire department I believe has the same thing um they if if their system completely failed which is basically meshed with ours if it completely failed they have that option to go to this Standalone smaller dispatching thing or uh uh it's a smaller system so they currently have it we don't so we're requesting that we have that option so if something does happen um it can also be used as a training site for new dispatchers so they could also go up there and do some simulated training exercises on this as with the fire department and their system so they could get some some real time um training uh scenarios without actually going on our main system and tying up those resources they're obviously going to learn on the job during training in that but this gives them the ability to do some preliminary training on these uh on these remote sites any questions on this one Sarah I have so many questions this is this is different from the big expensive emergency uh system we heard about from fire earlier yeah so that the one from fire is actually it's a joint police and fire is just assistant chief stren's taking the lead on the presentation so yes that is something that we we eventually need to do with our current radio system because our uh our current overall radio system is is very Antiquated for the Times um I I'm not sure I caught everything he said but our system is a single site transmit site so we have one transmit site up on Mount Lincoln and pelum that worked great years ago but now that we have multiple buildings um a lot of these uh commercial residential over commercial buildings are extremely thick with steel and and uh concrete and that is the worst thing for Radio Systems because it has such a hard time that is also compounded by the fact that uh I'd say probably 10 or 15 years ago the FCC mandated that we go from a wideband spectrum frequency to a narrow band Spectrum frequency and with that came many problems wide band is is a very strong wide permeable um uh radio frequency that can penetrate buildings when they went to narrow band that caused a lot of problems with permeability so now when we're in buildings even like our police station it's very difficult to hear radio Transmissions because that single transmit site with the low band frequency is or narrow band frequency is trying to get in the building and it can't very effectively so with that um that's why we're we're asking for a bigger radio system this other thing the other Standalone backup system is something we've been in the talks about for many years and it's been put off put off this is something that if the big system failed and our current system is is running but it could fail at any time we have no option to dispatch our Co police officers if something happened with our current system so with that it's really an inexpensive backup option and many police and fire and communication centers have that so if something did happen whether in our communication Center or the the network uh radio network it's self we have somewhere to go and do that Robin okay I don't see any other questions so we could move on to the next okay move on the next uh item that um is on my list is the 911 equature recording system so I wish I had a dispatcher here to kind of explain that uh what it is is basically every call that comes in to our 911 system is recorded um and from my understanding essentially is that the state used to mandate a specific system that we currently use and the state is no long and basically they funded it um and the state is no longer using that so the state wants all of the 911 uh dispatch centers to go to a different system which is this uh 911 equater recording system so the one that we currently have is becoming obsolete and um it's no longer being supported uh so we're we're seeking for this new system that that's going to be forced for us to be used anyways um that's kind of it in a nutshell I don't know if you have more info on that Doug uh yeah you're totally correct that uh the state basically back in the day mandated a certain recording system they actually provided it they actually maintained it and and did all the work with it now the state is basically getting out of that and is putting it back on the the municipalities to buy their own system and they're recommending that this is the system they buy so it's uh the continuity across the state is the same but again they're putting it on the municipality to buy the system and maintain the system so thank you Massachusetts um but that's what's happening with that now and again everything is going to be on us to buy it maintain it where in the past the state provided it maintained it and again we're it's now when they've made the decision it's now it this is becoming the end of life for this machine so at some point it's not going to have any any support or repair option to it and obviously we have to have this uh have to have this running to do the 911 recordings 247365 um the only question I had on this one um think is um is this a one-time expense so you said then there's maintaining it but this is put this new recording system in and then we've got it and it will last however many years the the physical thing uh yeah my understanding is is that we we purchase it once there may be a uh an annual uh support um fee and again Mike and the the communications director he would know more about this but there might I believe there's yeah I believe there is a there's a fee associated with that annually and it's a maintenance fee okay what that is I don't know no that's okay it it doesn't sound like you have a choice um no we don't unfortunately so is is that it on projects uh I have one more one more to to talk about uh which is our incar video system and video evidence software so our current system is uh is a is made by a company called watchguard that company's uh has recently been bought out by Motorola and so Motorola has taken the particular system that we used and making that one Obsolete and they're revamping it and making it more robust and and a lot more advanced um so there's no longer any support for the uh that particular model that we have so this particular uh request is to replace all of that so we can have the updated model the the ones that we currently have are are not going to be any good anymore and once they fail that's going to be it and again our resident expert is Doug and he can talk about that so it's not only our in uh in vehicle Cruiser cameras it also affects our interview rooms with the camera systems and recording systems as well as our um our cell block intake for booking so if you want to take it away Doug sure so we've been in the uh the incar video business probably for 15 or 20 years we were very very Progressive with getting incar video many years ago so we've had several systems in the in the early years but we actually probably 15 years ago I want to say we uh we purchased these systems and they've been extremely uh beneficial to us in our job in regards to the police work we do and uh in in court use bringing evidence to court video evidence so as uh chitin said these systems are facing end of life so this watch guard company was very um Progressive with their video systems um they a lot of police departments bought them and Motorola came in and liked what this company was doing and Motorola bought the company which is great but then Motorola took this product all the good of it made their own system which looks exactly like it but it has a newer flare to it and in the process they changed the operating system of um that runs these these um video systems as well as the in-house data server that's inhouse they change the software to run that so if I needed to buy any more video systems we were on every other year two system uh replacement and obviously during Co we stopped that um now if I needed to buy a new system the new system would not be compatible with the old system so we're we're at a point now where I'm not buying any new ones I'm maintaining what we have but as Chief Ting says as as the systems fail and there's no support and I have to place those systems out of service and they're permanently out of service so the the natural progression would be here to um go with Motorola's new new camera system and new evidence management uh video management system and that could either be uh housed locally on an in-house server or the new thing is like um Sean Hannah said everything can go to the cloud now or uh Captain young said for our records management most of the stuff goes to a secure Cloud now so that's an option so moving forward for our incar video our Booking Intake rooms and our two interview rooms this would be the new technology to move forward for the next 15 or 20 years so we're at a point it's going to start stopping and fail and we're not going to have any options and what is the price tag for the full replacement uh Chief T what do we what did we put down for that so we quoted 195,000 for full placement of um an estimated 20 units right that would cover all of our vehicles all of our interview rooms and all of our uh Booking Intake rooms and then that allows as so as the officers make recordings in the field or do interviews or do intake booking they can then go back to a computer go to a website which is the cloud and actually watch the video we have to watch this video before we have type any reports because obviously the report needs to match the video the video needs to match the report so it's a it's a it's a huge piece of uh equipment that we use right now on a daily basis I may have missed it but I didn't see it on the original list um so or the list we were looking at so it would be good to get just a paragraph you know so did others see this so I may have just missed this item you know we still had it penciled in at 18,000 for replace two on one list but you know we're just we're trying to keep a tally of the totals and this this this is a big this is a bigger number so I guess the question I have is do you need do do you need to do 20 all at the same time or could you do some but not all well like I said the old system is not compatible with the new system so if we did that we'd have to maintain two system systems okay two evidence libraries two maintenance agreements and again as those fail on the older side I'd have I'd want to replace them so my theory is is that if we stop the maintaining the system the older system and not pay for the the maintenance fees and pay for the replacement of parts and we stop that cost and we obviously do a one-time purchase that one-time purchase is going to going to last us for 15 or 20 years yes there is annual maintenance cost to go along with it but that's part of any software uh package that we own there's always uh maintenance annual maintenance costs and could you live with the not great system that won't be supported very long um for one year I mean like we could live probably one more fiscal year um but I can't guarantee anything about that right now I have out of the 20 units I have 19 running I have one right now that I'm having problems with repairing I'm having problems getting parts for it um and I'm I'm trying to locate stuff to get it back up and running so right now I'm doing okay I can't tell you where I'm going to be six or a year from now any any other questions no thank you thank thank you very much and and also thank you for the service to the town all of you the police Fire EMS team thank you very much thank you so we can send that information over to you um we'll make sure that you get that no and it would be great because Sandy and Jennifer are keeping a track of this and at some point we're going to have to find out what the total is for this year um not just you right right right certainly the whole the whole works so thank you very much okay so um we have one other I think one other it's the parking vehicle is that correct uh yeah that kind of it falls under the parking yeah budget but we actually it's part of my duties I actually M obviously maintain our Fleet of vehicles so I do that as a courtesy to the parking division since we actually um we actually supervise the employees in the field um so the car is a 2020 Ford Fusion Hybrid it's done uh it's done a very diligent job of of day-to-day parking life um it's probably close to 80,000 miles but it's a very hard 880,000 City miles um so things are starting to break um things are becoming unreliable um and uh a lot of high ticket costs we actually had it on the the road the other day and it died and I couldn't figure out why it was but it had some kind of hybrid meltdown that I had to try to figure out luckily I got it back running and fingers crossed it's still going fast forward to what's today today is H Thursday fast forward or rewind to Tuesday of this week um Zach Horvath one of our parking enforcement officers he was doing his proper traffic awareness and stopped for a um pedestrian in a crosswalk on East Pleasant Street right by the spoke and a younger gentleman who was not driving very smart decided to try to pass a car behind him and then pull back in behind Zach and he got rear ended so the current parking car is uh severely damaged sitting in our back lot really not safe to drive um so we're kind of at a Crossroads here in regards to hearing from the insurance company whether it's repairable or they're going to Total it so repairing is one thing if they agree to it um if they think it's worth their the insurance company's uh investment um but if they total it definitely the cost of what that car was in 2012 is not going to be the cost of what the car is going to be this day and age so I'm stillwaiting the insurance company to let me know so at some point we might have to replace it because of the damage um and I don't know what those those numbers are yet because I haven't done any research in regards to if they do total it what that cost would be to replace it and I the same headache is going to happen as I had with the crest Vehicles is then if we have to replace it trying to find an available vehicle under State contract that I can can find and secure and then um obviously they were the insurance company will give us x amount of dollars but I'm sure that uh won't cover the cost so then we have to come up with where that extra money is so it might be cheaper now to get the car because if they total it it's less we have to pay than paying for a brand new one that's something I'm going to have to find out in the next few days so little spin on it any the question I had on this it was pened in at $60,000 and when I looked at this is the this is the car that goes around giving people tickets correct you know I mean that's not tickets checking meters checking yeah we call them parking ambassadors now I've been not parking Ambassador sometimes they say oh you're only a few minutes over yes that they have a lot of discretion and I think uh I know Zach uh he's been on a job not too long and I've talked to a lot of people in the community that really like him because he's a very common sense um parking Ambassador so Anna may ask the electric side I'm going to stay on the hybrid side because when I went on quickly to say what's the least expensive small hybrid that I can buy I was Finding price tags under 30,000 because this car doesn't have to have all the bills and whistles that we've been hearing for the police and fire cars correct exactly so definitely this would be a a prime candidate for a full electric vehicle um something in regards to uh I have to consider with this is that they haul around still haul around change and collect money from meters so they have a bunch of equipment these metal boxes these buckets they carry around these three big orange boots that they put on people's cars so there is a kind of a um a a component of this car that I need to have so they can store that stuff safely in a vehicle and not be injured by that if should they get an accident so the current car they have has actually has a petition between the front seat and the back seat so if they get hit things don't go flying forward and hit them in the head and seriously injure them so I would have to consider something in that nature that would be able to house their equipment but yet um still be functionable and in an electric car they spend 99.9% % of their time in town so parking starts at 8: in the morning and and when we have a full compliment it ends at 8 at night so it can definitely be plugged in and be charged for a long duration and um and be used Anna um thanks Kathy that that was my question and and um officer GTH I that was the answer I was I was hoping for um I think my question is actually around timing so given the uh accident which bummer um big bummer and you said when do you anticipate a lot of this kind of is conditional on what the insurance company comes back with right and so when do you anticipate knowing like will it be before we wrap this process up or will it so I I hopefully should know within the next week or two so um the the claim has been submitted to the insurance company I usually get a confirmation back again this happened on Tuesday it's Thursday so I don't have confirmation yet um actually because we had a separate accident happened with one of our cars one of our Cruisers got rear ended the appraiser was here and I said oh by the way look at this car but check this one out so he's already taken the information about the car so I'm waiting for the insurance company to say okay and then once they reach out to them they say okay we already saw the car and hopefully that process will happen quick so I I anticipate within the next couple weeks I'll have that yes wearing it no we're totaling it and this is what we're going to give you um great and and you know I do hear your point about the um safety in terms of storing things I i' I've officially in my mind ruled out like you know a little smart car um but I am sure that there are lots of um options out there so I think it sounds like Kathy will just need to stay tuned on this one and um and go from there okay thank you all appreciate it and oh my gosh put Big Springs on the back of the cars or something people keep Runing you uh solved I have solved the rear ending problem don't worry everybody Jennifer Jennifer your hand is up sorry I couldn't find my unmute button um sorry if you mentioned this but does the in the case of the parking car does the at fault drivers insurance company come into play yes so the the uh they do they're actually paying for a rental vehicle right now so uh the parking car will not be driving around saying parking management anymore he'll be driving around in a white Chevy Impala with nothing on it so he's he's in a sneaky mode okay so yes the the insurance compan is their insurance company is currently paying for the rental we always go through our insurance company so we obviously we're taken care of properly and then our insurance company goes after their insurance company to be compensated in full including the deductible to make sure that the town is fully compensated so then is it actually an expense expense for I mean like we're talking like the this committee is tasked with deciding how to spend funds but if we're if ultimately the at fault drivers's insurance company is going to compensate like is this going to be an out-of pocket expense for the town so like I said it's a 2020 or 2012 Ford Fusion Hybrid so the town I believe our insurance policy actually covers the cost of the vehicle at the time of purchase so I don't actually have that number off hand I could definitely research that and get that to you so I'm assuming that they're going to give us the value car when we bought it and then obviously we go to buy now that that cost is going to be larger than what we paid for the car originally so yeah there'll be some out- of pocket cost um to to cover the difference right but it wouldn't be the expense of buying a whole brand new car like we were originally requesting for parking gotcha thanks you're welcome Sarah yeah just just clarifying you are you you already wanted to replace this vehicle before it was rear ended right yes because it's just it's it's a very tired car it's starting to get very quirky and unreliable um right so the the issue is just how much money if any you'll get so so actually the actually that the accident could benefit us in a certain way I hate to say that but it could thank you um Sarah your hand is still up is that just uh Jennifer is that just you didn't take it down yet yes that's right so any other questions so we might have enough money to buy half a car from insurance and then we need the other half or something like that yes or we can look into Teslas again just kidding there are much better electric options at this point so I is that's the list right now correct it is okay and so I want to thank you all very much and I see that Doug Slaughter has been with us but I am not sure exactly we I don't think we have another project on our list but Doug here certainly and I'm and police fire want to leave you can you can stay my Doug thank you very much thank you thank you for your time I've been doing plenty of other things um if you hadn't noticed but uh I was just here to talk to it and the fact we didn't have a request this year and explain it if anyone had a question about that but we're we're in a sort of sweet spot in a way I guess is a simple description um we have uh a new building that's going up and so that's going to afford US an opportunity to do some investment in in it infrastructure so that's going to be a help um and previous uh capital is holding uh for us uh We've not spin it all yet so we've got existing Capital that you've you've uh appropriated in past years that are going to help sustain us over the next year I think next year we'll be back with an ask but in the current year we didn't need one so I just wanted to share that with you all and you know uh let you know why it's a zero which it never is but it is this year so thank you it's actually and you don't want us to take back that unspent money because you're planning on using it correct that is correct that is correct we will spend it just we haven't spent it yet we've you know we've been fortunate with some of the purchasing and and some of the needs and so we've been able to kind of make it last a little bit so we're trying to be smart with it so thank you very much I'm sorry I didn't call on you initially because I didn't see a project when we did it so so so thank you thank you for joining us so I'm looking it's it's almost six o'clock I don't see any public so I'm assuming we don't have any public comment um and we already have a volunteer for or a new kind of volunteer I assigned minute taking for next week and Sarah did it for this week the only other thing I just wanted to mention um was that I sent everyone minutes I got one all clear from one person and one careful reader found some audities so I fixed them we posted the minutes but I'm not calling them final yet because I've been reviewing minutes and since I took the minutes I didn't feel like I could review them so if if you would all just take a look at them they're in this week's package and if you see anything let me know otherwise we can next week just make them final um and not have to take up time and Sandy I don't know whether you have any other words of wisdom for us um for before we come back together next week I just say a couple of things one is um I think this issue of hybrid Public Safety or Electric Public Safety Vehicles is a big issue um what I have heard consistently in talking to departments is any number of reasons they are just not ready to do them yet so I just wanted to reiterate that because um I know it's frustrating to see that this stuff hasn't moved forward um I know personally I would like to see it move forward um my partner Works in DC um all the time working on climate issues so she would like to see it happen um so uh but uh I just want to give you my two sense my reading on it is I just think the manufacturers have not been uh for coming forward with designs that meet public safety's needs and I don't know if you wanted to respond to that but I do I really appreciate you saying that Sandy I think I my my reason for continually asking and you know and I'm not throwing a hsy fit about it or anything hopefully you know takes it that way but but I I think my reason for asking is to make sure that I know that it's because their manufacturers are not getting the the options out there well enough but I want our departments to keep asking and I want us to keep asking the Departments and I think it's for us it's for me it's really about making sure that folks know this is on our radar and that we're looking for it and that if manufacturers start to make it and it starts to make more sense just like Electric electric school buses I know we've had challenges with them but that they are becoming phased in more often and that there are grants available etc etc so I think my my purpose in asking is to kind of check in and confirm what I believe is true which is is this available um just to reiterate that i' I'd love to see it and I I know we're not there yet but I I want to keep asking just to make sure folks know that it's it's on the radar um if that helps but I I do understand where you're coming from and I appreciate uh your response okay Le Lee has her hand up I was in Iceland this summer where I was told that for many many decades they had always Toyotas had always been the car of choice and now it's shifted to Teslas because iseland is you know gas is very expensive in electricity it's very cheap but I kept asking and they said except for are emergency vehicles so I just I had my hand up and took it down maybe this is of interest you know at the moment I don't want to waste your time and sometimes sometimes it pays to wait a little because things get better and cheaper quickly so just another thought and I'll take my hand down um the other thing I just want to say and I'm not making a judgment yet because I really have just more questions than I have answers and that is um I still have a lot of questions about this um police radio replacement it showed up on our screen so to speak just recently and I guess I would like to know a little bit more about it so sometimes when Public Safety comes in with projects that sound important and good they are important and good and sometimes they need a little more work so I just want you to know there are a number of things that have been presented to you some of which I think are ready for Prime Time others may not be so that's kind of where how I'm thinking about things now Sandy that's the 1.9 million yes I mean it's it's a huge number all at once and uh I mean I did ask them in our budget hearings if this is so important why is this the first time I'm hearing about it or they're hearing about it so we'll see I just want to let you know that uh trust but verify is how I would put it how do we do that how do we do that excuse me how are we G to know if it's really urgent or not um I think that partly is going to be some conversations going to have with both Chiefs and uh I had some initial conversations and got some different answers so I got some email during this meeting uh and uh I just want to look into it somewhere so uh one of the things that's always hard about doing this work is that all these things sound like great ideas sorry and they basic hold on and they basically everybody has great things that they would like to do and are justifiable but um sometimes you just have to say no or say say wait a year so that's the mode I'm in right now well and I think it would be as soon as you can come with to us with some of those insights because I've been putting like a question mark or a slash through and mainly focusing on Big Ticket items I figure it doesn't doesn't help to get rid of $20,000 you know right you know because as as you showed it some of this be put off in um debt debt financing but that just gets us in trouble over the next few years so and I heard the one today was we don't need to do it this year and I said well that's good news because it's it's it was a really big number yeah right you know so that was excellent hear directly from people rather than us having to puzzle over it so that would be excellent to get as many insights from you as we can Sarah yeah we're GNA need clearly an updated spreadsheet because some of the prices have changed and I'm not sure you know some things weren't in the packet and I don't know if they're in the spreadsheet and I'm I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be going back to an old packet to see a spreadsheet that's getting updated all the time or or you will present us a new spreadsheet revised list I've been working and we we just finished up all of our budget meetings including discussions with the department heads about their uh operating and capital needs so I now have notes from uh as recently as Tuesday which I then need to put into a more coherent form and update the spreadsheet also just yesterday finally talked to um Sonia about the debt number so there are a lot of these things are just sort of coming together and um I know I need to get it to you but sometimes when you have to get stuff from other people you know it takes a while you know Sarah I did double the spreadsheet hasn't been updated Sarah so you know what I've done is I'm manually updating it by Crossing things out and moving arrows over and you know it's so it's a messy so Lee again a very ignorant question when we talk about moving things up to the cloud now as opposed what confidence do we have that the current state of the cloud is going to be where we want to be as opposed to waiting and doing it later um I would if I could speak to that um I do think that's an important issue but I would also aine that um it is becoming very common for um municipalities to move their data to the cloud in for all sorts of departments not just Public Safety um you know the whole issue of things like police cameras take terabytes whatever at terabyte is sounds terrifying of data it's big it's very big right so um so I do think it is becoming a common practice uh and I would say in in my opinion for what it's worth um it's become reliable enough through repeated usage that I'm not worried about it as a um as a technology that that might be you know too new so yeah so any other comments if not um if someone wants to make a motion to adjourn we'll do a an adjourn Bob moved Kathy seconds um I'll just do a quick uh roll call Bob yes Kathy yes Sarah yes Eugene yes Anna yes Lee yes and Jennifer oh no Jennifer uh Shia is gone so Jennifer has left us so it's unanimous for those who got to we are adjourned until next week I want to thank everyone and thank Jennifer lantan and Sandy um I know how much heavy lifting you're doing to scramble to uh meet a schedule that was already in front in the past before you started so thank you very much my pleasure bye byone