##VIDEO ID:Z2k5njYM_IU## would also be oh nice sorry would be would also be to uh Define student housing uh sorry student rental a student rental so that now seems to be important from from two points of view and I think that it's it's appropriate that we should have whether we decide to use it or not we should at least uh have a a functional definition of student rental because then uh if it ever becomes an important or a relevant thing we don't have to start from you know the back Mark we've already done that piece of work and we can do it if we just decide to do it as a as a as a as a an isolated uh exercise perhaps we go and proceed to create that definition without people um asserting that there's this uh this this um um disingenuous objective or that disingenuous objective or so forth we just do it as a first step to nothing or apparently nothing so I think that becomes a an important relevant piece of work that hasn't been done that relates to housing that would seem to fall very logically into the uh workload or the the of this committee so that's mygg the other thing I would add I also just reread the to 2021 um name the town housing plan I forget the over name that Nate just sent us couple weeks ago and I was ay a little disheartened that half the things I feel like we're pushing against were proposed to happen in that was a little surprised but there are there are some goals in there that would support defining a student rental also so I feel like we could actually when this assuming we do this and it goes to council or planning board we can point to that say no this was part of the the bigger long-term plan we do need this definition and I totally like your idea Bruce of not tying to anything else other than this first attempt just get the definition on the book somehow I I totally agree Elizabeth yeah I just want I I I agree also that there needs to be a definition of student rental and um I can imagine it getting a little bit thorny with graduate students who have families and if you know a graduate student with a family is renting a place and then has an Adu in their backyard and is renting that to make income it's like how do you decide oh well only one member of that family's a student um so then I think you do need this idea of what a student rental actually qualifies as although K what you just said I think sounds pretty good I haven't thought it through entirely the only 50% or more than 50% are pursuing higher education is that you said something along those lines I can't remember yeah some you could say you know like you know I mean part of it is you can't have a household of unrelated people more than four so if three are students and one's not you know that would still be a student rental right you know and that but that gets also to your point Elizabeth about families like if it's one person in a family then it's not then there's three other family members then it would not be considered student Rental Right um I just want to jump in really quickly I was talking to Pam roone about this and she said they're going to be collecting more information under the rental registration and um one of the things they could ask for is you know are you know are they occupant students undergraduate students or your students and so that could be this may not happen this fall but it could be a question that they are and the Landlord Association has already put out language to all the landlords saying here's how you should respond to certain things which basically removes all that information and yeah there's clearly going to be some back and forth is all I'm saying yeah I think the Landlord Association is sort of and a lot of their stuff is sort of a legal fantasy yes I agree everything constitutional violation and you're just like you know that doesn't doesn't exist yeah but uh yeah as the uh as the resident landlord and the uh group landlord Fred yeah me too one of my uh one of my one one of my Apartments uh for a number of years not currently but one of them for a number of years uh had a graduate student in the wildlife department married to a elementary school teacher in the town of shutesbury with uh first one and then two children uh so that's it's for me that's not an academic question at all um that would not be sental right I I'm interested in the uh well as as as regards the definition um the uh um the places to look would be uh College U State College in Pennsylvania they the they the the town that's most like us that done the most work and uh I think I've got that definition in the notes I sent around of my conversations and so forth so we would start with that and see whether right wasn't work I think we I could go back and and and talk to um Ed laclair uh who's the planning director there uh about you know we talked I had a 45 minute fairly long wide ranging conversation with him but uh if he had a moment we could or even one of his people I could uh push the definition a little so I would do that if if he's still there but State College was one of the places that actually had the definition it's right on their website I'm looking at it right now I remember see yes that's that's exactly where right that's where I got it from he directed me there but that's where it came from um there is this housing study group uh that's um I got an invitation to put to to participate in uh their working groups and the way they're structuring it they're asking to they're calling him interview groups I think and uh they uh there's I don't know eight or so uh times or time slots and they've asked people to sign up for one time slot or another and and and they they are taking up to five people in each time slot I think that's kind to fill every time slot with five people so that I guess is the begin of the uh the process of uh revising this housing study um so sorry that's an ammer ster yeah I just wanting to know who else is involved in that I I was simply invited uh and I'm not sure why I just got an invitation when I when I went on to the site to sign up I noticed that uh a number of counselors signed in I I noticed that Aden Tiny from C riddle was obviously got an invitation and responded few people I didn't recognize um but um a number of counselors I know Mandy Joe paty Angelus uh Jennifer Charles Lyn grma uh maybe one or two others but I certainly remember those are are participating so um I was curious it seems that none of the rest of you have uh have been invit I don't know why I was invited I don't know the person who invited me well hold on just I'll tell you who it was just a minute CU you're the most sensible most knowledgeable of us so uh that's arguable um here we go Shane mu me let's see what Shane's uh oh Dodson flinker okay so this is uh uh hold on uh maybe that's not the one um golly me oh this and and this is no this is another one that's now we're it's Bine Gregory who is that for this housing study yes it's called Greg input on housing strategies and Raine Gregory is from am.gov yeah so GRE I think that's Greg he just started the meeting for us he oh I had met him yet he's uh oh Gregory R Shane not I see it's a comma there I didn't see the comma okay so anyway this is uh the sessions are led by representative of the Barrett Planning Group and it says uh we invite you to add your perspective to this work joining an interview group session and then there's um there's a bunch of days and uh and then when you click you get a the the the Matrix of possibilities and they ask you to sign up for one of them sign is it clear what the goal is I missed that um it's uh we invite you to share insights and feedback into Town's housing production plan so it's the housing production plan I think we already have a housing production plan I think this is the the required updating of this uh that happens didn't we talk briefly about that at the planning board anyway housing production plan is uh so it's clearly relevant to this committee I will uh I'll forward this to you Jesse and and and to others yeah great yeah I'll do that uh I'll do it now while we're talking okay forward okay just keep I'm just doing this for the moment sorry I think Karen just emailed me that she's in the attendees and I'm trying to I've lost that window weird does anyone else see attende window um just a minute I have I have zero in the attendees my sign bar just disappeared which is weird Okay I just sent that uh saying and I have zero as well but it could be that you can see things that we can't because I remember in the I'm confused what just happened think when I started recording the sidebar disappeared all right I'm going to stop the recording and see if it comes back cynical on a little cynical on town plans because we have so many Fantastic plans that we don't implement but I think you know we met the go we met the numerical goal of the last plan it just turned out to all be almost all student housing except for um a good amount of affordable housing and so if I think the feedback to the group would be like we don't really need sorry for this cat we don't really need more you know student housing we need housing for regular residents and affordable housing is that the plan has to somehow accommodate the fact that the most people willing to pay the highest amount in rents most attracted to developers in a time of high costs are students and so um so that's just my feedback because you know the other thing is it' be nice to implement a plan actually and not sorry about this cat he's missing us I've been away for a while um you know it's like implementing the plan plans and not just um you know drafting them and having them so we could have some more State money for something you know checking the Box my guess my guess is that what strives this is the latter this is a this is like a a piece of work that that we are semi obligated to do and it's not a um it's it's it's it's not something that's um uh a clever in you know initiative based on some uh generating local desire and you know both that both that and the housing management plan I'll talk about the impact of students on neighborhoods and they need to stabilize neighborhoods and so I don't know we have language and all sorts of things that could support what we're doing and yet the town isn't doing those things and so I think that's what our push should be you know but I think to bring up this issue is that we're always going to get students in our housing unless there's some sort of control and maybe the housing production plan recommends minimum distance or a limit on the percentage of units or something that would be kind of subversive to get that in the plan like specific ideas um circling back a little bit to the definition idea I have a I have a proposal I guess so I'm looking at the State College definition you want to read it sure yeah I can I just sent you all the link but I'll share the screen and we can look at it together that's a better idea yeah you guys see in my screen yes yep okay student home definition student home is defined as any living Arrangement within a one family dwelling one family dwelling with an apartment or two family dwelling by persons who are unrelated by Blood marriage or adoption and are attending undergraduate or graduate programs offered by colleges or universities or are on semester break or summer break from studies at College universities or any combination of such persons residents of a student home share living expenses and may live and cook as a single housekeeping unit student homes include living arrangements where the land owners or land owners family members are residents of the dwelling unit student homes do not include fraternity sororities rooming houses town homes or multiple family dwellings okay so the question becomes is there anything in that that is redundant or is in appropriate or irrelevant to our situation so and the coroller or is is there anything obviously missing right so I was going to propose we just look at this and maybe just take it verbatim and say okay here's what we think student definition should be but obviously discuss exactly what you said rather than yes can can any of us see any reason that is this is there anything that this doesn't cover or is there anything the scenarios the scenarios we just discussed right where it's one student with three family members who are not students by this definition I think that it doesn't fall into this definition because it's more uh I think my my concern is the one family dwelling or one family dwelling with an apartment or two family dwellings I think I I like to see something more generic than you know what if what about a Triplex what about a quadplex what about you know an Adu Town Home Town Homes yeah well but but if you try and reach too far remember the uh the very nice and useful metaphor or similar of dragging cookies out of a cookie jar uh if you grab too many cookies you can't get them through the the hole and and and you get most of what you want by getting two cookies out and you don't need the third cookie at least not immediately so I'm I'm going to be looking at it from the point of view of uh if we try to uh to do too much that it becomes cumbersome and uh and then begins to open up uh lines of argument for people who want to knock this down so I would go for uh less than all all encompassing if the outliers are not going to be serious or we don't think the out buers are going to be serious uh are going to contribute seriously to the problem so if we can get 95% of the problem defined the way it is we don't have to get the other 5% yeah we can work on that later but I think you could take I mean you could take Town Homes out of the exclusion and you could I mean you would take rooming houses out because we don't even allow rooming houses right we do I thought we didn't we do by special permit oh think it's limited to six people yeah so let's work on this I don't know if we to Workshop it I might just say a dwelling unit because that's already defined in our somewhere in our um yeah Brad go ahead uh yeah I'm in the exclusion um I'm not sure at all about town homes and I'm definitely not sure about multiple family dwellings yeah whether that belongs there uh Bruce can you maybe why are th why are those in there yeah yeah I I um well I think because um probably because in multif family dwellings they are allowed in zones where the restriction on students is either inappropriate or or is not uh is not equivalently disruptive I mean I think that there are places for example where we are talking about University Drive where we are encouraging student rentals to occur so we wouldn't want to put restriction on multif family dwellings although like you just said our first approach is not to restrict anything we're just defining yeah then when we come to the any possible restrictions we could exclude multif family from the Restriction right so if we went down that road of distance we would obviously not include multif family dwellings I think in that or for example or we could just say we're you know the restrictions are in residential districts not other zoning District but again that feels like the next Maybe not part of this first attempt so so I'm thinking maybe we could just take the exclusions out for now right why does that need to be in there at all the Define is student rental um yeah I would I would mean removing the town homes and multi family dwellings because we do you know we do have separate Zoning for fraternities and sororities which are allowed almost nowhere and then rooming houses I are allowed with someone living there so just take out that last yeah with me um I just want to read this again I guess we could copy it into a into a Word document and Stu doing it that way sure and uh the other so we could uh also some maybe you said Jen whether whether we wanted to um have this definition apply only to zones in town so that we uh or do we or do we again decide that's irrelevant just as we are contemplating taking this out I me thought would be it's relevant for now and then like because I feel like the more we complicate it or parse it here the more trouble has getting through the next steps potentially gotta yes um and then also to address uh Elizabeth's interesting uh question which is what about the uh essentially the graduate student family and I think the graduate student family is not [Music] um is is not covered in this because it's uh it's it's it's not an unrelated it's where it says uh who are unrelated by Blood marriage or legal adoption so I think that that uh a graduate family is described by Elizabeth would uh would be one who is related by blood marriage or legal adoption so I think they are and this would also mean if you had I don't know four siblings who were all attending you as that would not be as student rental because they are related I I doubt that often happens but because it's also yeah also person plural so there has to be more than one so in that family scenario it would not count either even if it was it's also means it does say if if you're the the son of the landlord you are still uh or the daughter you're still considered a student home if you have friends in correct yeah yeah so like can you know I've had s situations where I have one student and two young professionals so that would not count because it's only one yeah I think I'm reading this correctly I mean there are situations where people buy homes and then they're rented by their children and be you know and other students you know that's right and but I hear of them yes no and and that would uh this definition would include that situation as a student home but it should I think it should right that's I do I agree yeah I mean it's it's a it's a student home that's perhaps possibly approaching in some degree of owner occupancy not technically but uh but still it's a student home yeah um BR go ahead uh yeah the other wrinkle here is uh factoring in the new legislation uh if uh a student home by the definition is located in an accessory dwelling unit under the legislation uh it's not clear to me whether we can step into that or not well but again I think we're not trying to say what this definition is used for yet we're just saying let's have a definition okay that's sure and then and then once that gets part of our yeah bylaw or whatever we want to call it then we can think about okay how do we regulate how how do we want to try and get a handle on where and how many student rentals are I I I agree with what you're saying but I think that's not part of this initial attempt would be my view so the other place that did minimum distancing was um New York Delaware and of course fanova as well but I think they dropped it some time ago um we could I don't know whether I have the the definition that Newark used um and and I haven't also asked other places that I called whether they had a definition because of course they may have a they may have a student rental definition and it wouldn't have risen um to uh you know above the water for me because I we didn't talk about it but it it would be I think this is a good one and I think we should uh contemplate proposing this as an action item out of this committee that we uh proposed to the town that we adopt this definition we adopt a that we adopt a definition for a student rental and that this be that definition I think that would be in fact I I would move that uh I would so move that we that this committee uh recommend to the board that it proposed to the town that we adopt as a definition of the student rental and that this be the definition that's a motion jet I I would be interested in seeing what other towns have done too before I I can't vote on this anyway but um I'd be interested in if other towns maybe have a you know a different cut or something a little shorter I hate I hate the long sentence um in general and so I just wonder if we could look at two or three examples that would be helpful but uh so since there was a motion I I will second the motion then has a comment also um any any other comments from other people before so so I was just remembering I'm pretty sure when I first looked into this Cambridge Massachusetts had a student rental definition as well but I think that may have been challenged and lost but I wanted I just want to Circle back and see that because if there's prec in Massachusetts certain language that did hold up maybe that's also you know makes our our case a little stronger as well um I also pretty sure I got double check the date but from State College this has been since 2016 or so you might know better so that's a great sign to me that it hasn't been successfully challenged um there anyway whether it's been challenged I don't know I think the minimum distancing is what they're more concerned about um and I'm not sure that the the definition has been uh appointed contention just looking at my well I I I have a motion it doesn't look like it's been seconded I seconded it sorry if I wasn't I'll second the motion um like there was no other convers ation so just to restate your motion is to put this forward to who first planning board well we're a subcommittee of the board so I I think uh I mean yes that's the motion uh I think you Jesse you might want to talk to Chris breast about and to and to uh and to Doug [Music] um before we do this and either one or both of them might have some uh um some some um commentary that would suggest that we go you know we we uh we we work a bit harder before we bring it but this is a I'm I'm trying to uh um basically put some horsepower behind this committee by having a product that we can bring at least that you can bring at least to the uh to the two uh um to the chair and to the staff before we maybe take it to the uh planning board for conversation then of course the planning board could decide to refer it back for the reasons that Janet mentioned you know I I'm I'm not unsupportive of all of what Janet said I'm just trying to you know get the baby washed so to speak great I I appreciate that okay so let's let's vote on this as our subcommittee um with only three of us present um we'll do a roll call vote uh so Bruce SCM do you I approve FR I approve and I also approve so three in favor um with Karen not here great so Jesse I'd suggest that the the minutes of this meeting are more important than the minutes of previous meetings I will get that together and as you suggest I will communicate with Doug and Chris yeah about this and and seek guidance how to proceed for sure great very good and I will I've sent you the others the housing uh study uh um working group interview groups things I I I've taken some uh advice from you all about my participation in that and then if you all join in any way then you can do likewise but I will uh I will I will ask uh uh in in in my attendance I will focus on U seeing to what extent the housing study is dealing with um impacts of student rentals in U in most districts of town okay that's great I will also follow up we seem to be in agreement about trying to get maybe Mindy d to come for conversation about the new uh law right okay so I'll follow up with her to see if she can come ideally maybe to even to our next meeting which right now is on the schedule for the 29th also at noon um but I just today got a potential conflict on that so I wanted to check with I guess Bruce and Fred if we could shift that um flexible Jesse okay any other day that week I could still do the noon time if you guys could let me go where are we now again so August 27 28 29 30 I can't do the 29th but I could do any other day that week I think I'm to go to my calendar oh where are we trying to find it and obviously Janet love for you to participate as well Elizabeth too if you're free I'm I no plans yeah typically Tuesday is a full day for me at habitat but uh days I'm pretty flexible I'll propose Wednesday yep Wednesday the 28th yes Wednesday the 28th yes and what time think that can work for you also noon let's say noon to hopefully 1:30 um today I do have to leave at 1 okay BR any conflicts for you you're muted sorry you're muted Fred well sorry I just moved it on my calendar to Wednesday great excellent okay let's consider that done I will let car Caro obviously and the town to make sure they set it up for us yeah um okay so bye then I'm going to have I'll communicate with Mindy if she's not available uh do we think a second person we could have in mind who we know I don't know any of the people personally so other suggestions someone mentioned Mandy Joe maybe uh sorry uh I was looking at it your question again if Mindy cannot make it is there someone else I would invite next because I don't know anything Mindy might I don't know whether Mindy has a staffer or not if she does that would be a good substitute um otherwise uh I I guess Joe would be equally uh she might be busier I don't know whether they're what their workloads are I'll see how I think either one or their star or their designated sword would be uh good okay um so I'll follow up with that I will also commit to getting minutes at least from this me meeting done and communicate with Chris and Doug by then as well um as I mentioned in the email earlier for the when my semester starts I can't really do midday stuff like this so unfortunately I need us to find an evening that could work um so if we could all just think have our schedules ready for the next meeting to figure that out do great um I've got a few more minutes other topics people want to discuss right now um I'd be interested in Elizabeth's contribution I Elizabeth you've taken the trouble to join uh we don't um we don't I mean I kind of know you because you make comments on planning board meetings and so forth but so I was just what do you want to bring to this group well I was curious about this just because I know there had been a lot of discussion about it um and just generally trying to follow what happens um with housing and I'm not sure how I can contribute at this point um I also recently joined the amorist community land trust and there's sort of discussions about you know looking at looking at what's happening North of fearing Street um I sort of feel like what's north of fearing Street has pretty much been lost to um the community um and that's and and just how does one avoid that just creeping creeping creeping um and is there anything that can even be done about the situation north of feeing street because it's there's a lot of it that just is is terrible yes neighborhoods we see the that the bottom end of Meadow Street uh where houses just become increasingly dilapidated I mean I think that I suppose one thing that can be done is that photo documentation so that it's not already been done just so that people have a real sense of uh I think that the lower end of uh meow Street in North amist is a good example of mhm of of um houses that haven't been painted for years most especially Gardens that are not [Music] maintained he just froze yeah anyway that's just I I saw this meeting and I was available so I thought I would check it out great you're you're you're welcome all the time I mean we we were hoping mostly from Janet that this would be just more of a conversational right really anybody to chime in to to I think we're all interested in the same issues and trying to come up with Solutions right go ahead so in in response to what um Bruce said and Elizabeth said oh you're muted sorry I did sorry I was putting my hand down but I was muting myself a lot of communities have something called a a bylaw called demolition by neglect and that would prevent um houses from sort of Slip Sliding into disrepair um and the other thing is one of the things I'm wondering about is if we did a minimum distance requirement people keep on saying oh we can't apply that to existing student houses because of grandfathering I don't know what that means and why we're saying that and so I think that's a legal issue to look into me particularly since rental houses turn over yeah right so I don't does a law is there a law that says once you have a student rental house or a rental house it has to stay that way forever and I don't understand that it seems to me I I'm wondering and I have no research to back it up but I you know I hate when people just sort of say stuff without documentation um if we had a student rental registration you know if people were registering that and registering every year and then we started to do a minimum distance they could just come out and say you know I'm sorry you can't do that or this you don't get your permit this year or whatever well you get you have like a three-year period to kind of do something else because I don't think we talk about this enough there's not a lot of rentals in amoris for people that they can afford and you know you know it's just it's it's such a tight market and so I don't think it's saying to landlords oh you can't rent you know because only students I think it just opens up the neighborhoods to more stability and more people who would like to live in town so I just the grandfathering issue to me is not cut and dry to me I don't know why people keep on saying that I don't know the law on that but I think that's something that we have to figure out or hear more about maybe from our town attorney yeah BR go ahead uh the I I think the consideration here Janet is in general when the zoning bylaw changes and you have an existing use and the the the bylaw changes to disallow that that existing use which is now non-conforming uh is allowed to continue under the general rules and the that are in the general laws that that can continue uh it can't be increased in magnitude or anything but it can continue indefinitely uh and so I I think that's where the that's coming from in terms of Zone in now uh the the place that you can attack it uh is through uh the rental registration bylaw uh which it it's fairly clear that bylaw is going to get challenged on uh constitutional grounds whether that challenge will succeed or not I have no idea frankly but that's I I think you can approach it that way but not through the zoning bylaw R do you think you could CH can it be a can the um minimum distance be done as a general bylaw does it have to go into the zoning I've never understood the pathways myself I am not sure about the answer to that question I don't either not either this this is the kind of stuff where again I feel we need a town staffer planner to help us with right like yeah somebody who's committed to the outome right I've know I've express to you Janet my frustration on that front that I feel like there's not a lot of that support right now there's there's none let's be honest it's not a priority of the department right never years when I read when I read the planning the how uh blank on the words again the housing market study all the languages in there that give them reason not to support this so was like all right they've been told this is not important almost the opposite anyway discussion for another time um okay I've got a run any last comments thank you no thank you all I'll see you next time great --------- ##VIDEO ID:G8uItGaUMSk## okay should I share my screen sure we have the document in front of us let's see you got it there okay can you see it yes now yep there it is okay so Rob I think we missed you the other night right yes yeah so there are uh I'm just going to jump in is that okay we do yes okay so one of the changes that we made out of conversation was to move I from the third goal up to the first goal to development because um and there was quite a quite a bit of debate about this but um it really is about development inclusionary zoning is development so and it felt like it was really trying to squeeze it into education that didn't really make sense so the proposal was made to move into development and a few of us supported that felt like that made sense and um so that was the decision that was eventually made but we didn't change the goal we kept or the strategy we kept it the same but just moved it that was one um I don't know if you have any thoughts on that Rob no that's that seems fine to me and then um there was just a a tweak with language on under funding and B [Music] um what did what was it that we tweaked it was uh working towards the minimum it was working towards a minimum okay working towards a minimum um I should have made a note of the language we took out a word or something so that it was um those was I think that that was came from um algra algra okay working toward minimum 50% recommended transfer yeah so very minor tweak and then the main conversation was education and public Eng so I should just do a um insert a page break so we can see it all together sorry can I ask a question and and we can come back Shelly or you and I can do it offline but did we ever talk about either in this group or the large group with the um the CPA allocation whether that was 15% pre- debt payment or 15% of the remaining CPA funds after Debt Pay did we talk about that or well I think at the last meeting Nate uh implied that we should do it after debt payment okay really I thought somebody said of the whole amount which I assumed was before debt payment so I don't I it's not clear to me anyway it has to be clear I think it's before because I think the 10% for each category is before debt payment the 10% is before debt payment but if you look at the debt payment for Amherst and they've done their 15% or 10% I'm sure so I think that this is before debt payment but it's a good we should clarify that um so why don't we maybe we need to put it right it's really clear yeah why don't I talk to Nate and just double double confirm what what what he yeah thinks and then see if and I I need to get some bigger numbers him generally from CPA like yeah y yeah because I know uh Carol and I went to a couple of CPA meetings and when they were doing the decision making the debt payment is pretty high and that's why they feel I mean they're they're very committed the group that's there right now is very committed to supporting affordable housing trust but when you look at the debt payment um there's a there's a huge amount uh going to affordable housing so if if it's be before de payment then uh we'll get very little the affordable housing initiatives for amers will get the amount but we as a trust will get very little well this is asking this is asking 15% to go to the trust from the total so why do we get very little if you read the way I read this it doesn't matter what the debt payment is we still get 15% of the total okay that clarification Greg yeah okay that that Mak sense so but but I and I guess what we think and and I think the consensus here I'm hearing is our our impression is our goal is 15% of the total annual CPA bucket before CPA subtracts their debt payments not after I would just say I wouldn't I if it's 15% of the total bucket the total bucket is the total bucket we don't have to say that other part that's internal to I think somebody correct me if I'm wrong but in any of the meetings that I've gone to they talk about what they have here is the whole thing and this much of it has to go to debt payment but here is the whole thing I okay I think I mean ask Nate he done it Lauren me presumably the PA towards this will have yeah the have some Nuance as well right so I'm wondering I know Carol you think it's clear but maybe we can say Seek a yearly CPA contribution to the trust from the town or that from the town to the trust working toward a minimum of 15% just putting in specifically to the trust so they don't think it's just to affordable housing oh yeah for sure definitely the trust yeah okay well everything else is about the trust so I me whatever you want I don't know all right but I mean it's fine as long as it it's clear I mean we're going to are we going to go in front of some these boards and present this to them because that's when the questions may come I would say that that's part of our whatever strategy if this is our goal this is our goal then how do we do it then that's the qu then you ask that question I think I think that's a strategic question not a goal question okay all right well as long as it's clear to everybody that's fine I think that Nate's always suggested that it's before the debt is exclude is taken out okay but I think it's a fair point that if all the debt service is going to housing then it could take longer to get to that 15% maybe I don't know okay I think you should shoot big doesn't hurt education you won't get it if you don't ask education and public engagement so a couple changes with these um primarily it was some language so a it was made facilitate to facilitate strategic engagements with Municipal boards to keep members AB breast of local housing needs and build Partnerships between boards so we took out annual we took out annual right so there was some resistance to the idea of annual and some of what that the formality of it and um a little bit restricted so we I'm proposing this idea of engagements because this could be um it doesn't necessarily have to be a meeting it could be um uh a write up of something that is it could be presenting your goals or it could be it could be a different kind of format so um the annual meeting felt too restrictive and it could be a meeting that somebody else was facilitating that we attended I mean just feels more flexible if it's just strategic engagements whatever they may turn out to be yeah so it is still saying that the trust is facilitating so it is that you're proactively creating these engagements but um it's just a little bit less formal and restrictive as an annual meeting and for some of us you know that are involved in non profits like an annual meeting is a big is a big deal and much more formal so and then D build Rel we we turn the sentence around so build relationships awareness and participation among targeted constituency groups identified as housing cost burdened and ammer housing production plan so we turned it around and simplified it a little bit um and I I do think that it's clear I like it better this way around me too simplifies it a little bit yep really saying that it's it's groups that have been identified as housing cost burdens so it's an intentional reaching out and relationship building with groups that are particularly um struggling and amor so those are the the changes from the last meeting and uh the for the most part I think they're pretty minor and so I think that this can go before your meeting again if if folks don't have any additional changes and then we should kind of decide what's what's the next step it seems like there are all kinds of things we talked about doing kind of in addition to this or coming up with some kind of strategies to go with the goals for one thing and I'm looking at the thing at the bottom of this consider adding to trust guidelines I don't even know where that where are the trust guidelines was that something we were wanting to look at again the thing that we have is kind of nobody ever even looked at it or uses it much so it seems like the first thing is hopefully the way this is now if we are all liking it which it seems like we are we will present it to the trust to to adopt this is our these are our goals for the next few years five year five years yeah five years I think five years and then the next step seem to be um coming off with some strategies and hopefully the strategies will involve coming up with people to pursue the particular strategies that we come up with I don't know that's my two cents there was a uh I think an in our timeline there was also a mention of making this public to see uh with regards to in uh public input all right I forget that all the on so we could put it on our website the only thing is is that most people wouldn't go on the website unless they knew there was something to go on there for um so the the only concern I have is uh bumping up against the HPP focus group meetings uh and and trying to get input from there I think people are limited in terms of how much input they want to provide but I mean we could put it on a website um and I'm wondering I mean one part of the education piece uh right in the Gazette there was um a piece around the trust providing $350,000 to Valley I wonder if whoever wrote that could maybe talk about that we finished our action plan we're looking for input um you know these are the types of things that we've done in the past this is going to be our guideline for the future and maybe that would give people some opportunity to get to our website and give some feedback oh one of the other one easy thing we can do is if it's it's going to be on our agenda next time anyway I could send out something earlier than when we have the whole agents who are long 100 people or whatever it is list saying look here is our proposed goals for the next five years please either respond here or come to our meeting in order to give us some commentary I that's we can do that yep and I know representative Dom is really good at sending out newsletters and sometimes uh she puts in things about meetings that you know people are looking for input on or um George Ryan with his newsletter that I get even though I'm not in his district um it often has things in there about what the town's looking for so maybe there's another two ways of getting input for the next meeting tell them to come all right well it looks like we have a a a plan for getting input so over the next so we'll put this on the agenda for September right yeah so the next two months so September and October I could still support your work and there's two things I'm thinking about either one it's this group meeting a couple more times to think about an implementation strategy or um I don't think we could do both um or maybe we could do both I I what I would offer is to read through your existing guidelines and just add some markups of suggestions about modifications and then you would take it self of maybe Greg could help facilitate that conversation of um later in the fall if you're wanting to revisit that but those are two suggestions of maybe what we want to still try to do in the next couple months sounds good Rob I would sorry I was just going to say that from a staff perspective I would find it very valuable for Shelly tomor mark up our existing guidelines as she post I agree I also would find it valuable for this group to meet a couple more times with whatever in the world it is that we I mean we can come up with some clear idea of what we're trying to do but it seems like there's enough possibilities we could look at the marked up guidelines we could get Shell's help in trying to think about how to come up with strategies to go with the goals either one or both of those things would seem valuable to me to do with this group more conversations the better it is it seems like feel like um when we started this process maybe before Shelley joined us there was talk about developing goals then the entire group the entire trust sort of breaking into groups to work on goals so in other words there might now we have three broad categories of goals trust members should choose one of those categories to sort of focus on and have these small groups going forward after that to work on strategies that's a good idea so that sounds like a good action plan to introduce to the group um we'd probably have to um well Greg you meet with gone um to make sure that he's on board with this but I I agree with you uh Rob I think that's a great idea right from the beginning to get people uh to identify areas that they are interested in and then have them move forward with developing strategic um action plan so your September meeting is on the 12th right and then our meeting is on the 19th the next week so hopefully for the 19 we have on the 12 hopefully on the goals and strategies and then perhaps we can um at that meeting ask people to or maybe even in your email beforehand or to think about what areas they're interested in and maybe get it to one of you we can identify maybe Greg if they can give feedback to Greg that we can start talk about on the 19 about structuring it or like you know you don't want to spread the team too thin right away but what are a few key areas based on people's interests and then maybe we can talk to on the 19th what that might look like a little bit that was good and I'll plan to have gone through your guidelines and start just making some comments and then if we have time we can maybe split the meeting on the 19th topics okay sounds good C can I ask me actually propose uh going back to the feedback piece of this um and I want to be thoughtful and productive about that um in the sense that one like we like I guess what's the function of getting like feedback you know I think is sort of what I'm asking and and I think keeping in mind that uh a broad a broad net is going to produce unpredictable participation I mean like there's some predictable folks who who we think will likely give us feedback but then we'll get we'll get randoms you know like somebody might say 200 homes you should be supporting 2,000 homes you know or um we it needs to be entirely ownership right so you'll we'll have some you know we'll get some good stuff we'll also get some fairly uninformed feedback frankly if we do a big public push for feedback and I just want to sort of anticipate that there may be a need to sort of you know not take some of that you know and I guess I just want to like get you know for for reasons that will make sense to all of us and people on the trust but but might not to in in the public consumption necessarily depending on how widely we push it who decides to show up and and offer input um so I mean I that's that's kind of like a uh a pitfall I want to avoid one thing and just thinking about going to the subcommittee side or going to the what what do you want to work on question right a modest proposal to maybe bypass some of the problematic stuff that you know that a very public feedback process to produce is we can just ask people like a more focused question or questions but like to me a functional thing might be which of these strategies are you most excited about you know like the concrete feedback question we could ask is to say which of these strategies whether it's trust members or it's the public and large of the you know the whatever it is total strategies 15 or something you know W which are these sck out to you that you're most excited about that you want really want to see happen in ammer right so that will do two things so one it will tell us like where there's it moves it away from people throwing darts you know or just nitpicking and two it tells us oh here's where people are genuinely excited and that might be an indicator to us here's maybe where something we should leave with perhaps that I I absolutely agree with you that helping to structure and helping to focus things helps people to be much clear about feedback um and I think not setting people up with with oh just because you're giving it doesn't mean we're going to take it so I agree so I think what you're talking about how do we structure this to be constructive a constructive conversation um so um having questions like yes which ones are you most excited about um but I think there are probably going to be people too I mean I hate to set up with what do you think would what are some what is one thing that you think is missing out of this it is a setup because I mean I could I could look at this and say you know from just as an example um there's nothing in there that's specific to uh specific populations like seniors or people of color which we've discussed already you know we know you know that we're doing it this way um but they're going to be people who are going to say that and then if we don't put it in there they're like ah you know amers is not interested in helping seniors or people of color so it is it is a double-edged sword and getting Community engagement but I think part of it is um you also prefering it with you know we we feel these are very specific and targeted it doesn't exclude um we are very aware that there are particular um groups and you know under C you know you can actually under three you can actually see that we are through the housing production plan going to be working with very specific groups that we're already aware of that might have uh cost burden in terms of rental and ownership so we're not putting specific groups in there because it then might limit us or exclude other groups so I me I think part of it is being able to respond to some of that um but yes I mean that's that happened in the focus groups we had all kinds of things be submitted and it took a lot of filtering um and sometimes it took uh really sort of word smithing diplomatically um you know because you have those outliers that are sometimes really outrageous outrageous on one side or the other side um so I think being Mindful and structuring it will be important otherwise it's going to be set up for those participating for us so how do you want to do that do we want to do that with Gaston or do we want to do that now so what I'm Wonder there's a lot of background noise from someplace not here um three subcommittees one for each of the goals and then ask people to think about because as I'm thinking about the different strategies under the goals there there may be a couple that that need to be worked on simultaneously and if we just ask people to to go based on their the strategy that they're interested in we might get just people on development and then nothing would happen under education so what I'm wondering is if we should propose three subcommittees and then ask people to look at the strategies and which ones that they're interested in working on to consider who's on what subcommittee but then to set up the expectation that we will want people to be working on all of these areas and that everyone can't just be on development or just on education um but then that each sub subcommittee can kind of decide at which Pace or at first what are the two um strategies that they're working on perhaps based on either urgency what's happening in the community and or the interest of people are sitting on it and I know your community is not that big so it would be probably only maybe two people per subcommittee um but then that sets it up it makes it so that we're not setting it up where it's everyone can do development if they want I mean that's not really you don't really want everyone just doing development right yes but just to clarify Shelly um I think Greg and I what we're talking to is um the larger Community input in terms of the the you know the challenges of how do we make sure people feel that they're being heard at the same time we're not going to really change what we've got tremendously um and so um how to sort of structure that so we don't set them up to think um their input will be automatically accepted um we want to hear from them but at the same time there's going to be a limitation of what we can what we will what we're willing to include at this point in time so that was sort of the you know thinking about how to structure that um or maybe limit I mean maybe limit it until the subcommittees Finish um if we want to do that um you know there we could limit it to uh Carol sends out the message to everyone who's already very interested and involved and just limited to that and then post it on um the amher website at this point in time and just leave it at that versus having a megaphone saying hey everybody we want your input so because I guess the concern could be that then the meeting on the 12th could be totally blown out of the water where trustees are feeling angst or whatever because of comments that have being made yeah or or just structuring it a little bit more and so uh Greg one of Greg's which I think is very good always starting on the positive which is uh which one of these really excites you because then we might get some um engagement once the strategies you know when people are starting to work on the strategies what really excites you about this um and then I'm I'm wondering if we leave it at that because it's an open-ended question where people can put their input in um and they can you know there will always be somebody said this really excites me but you know there's always the butt or we can say um you know what really excites you and then what do you think something that might be glaring missing but we just want to um denote that we've had a long large conversation so what you might think is missing we've already had this conversation and we can respond to why it's not written in there it doesn't mean that we're not going to do it and focus on it but it might just not be written in there I see okay sorry I misunderstood what was that's okay we we Al it seems to me we also talked about some of those missing things that you're just mentioning coming up when we try to write the guidelines and the some of the other stuff so it won't even though it's missing from here it may be documented somewhere else not just some something in our heads or whever but we expect that some of that will come up when we as we look at our guidelines again so not every yeah I don't know what I'm I definitely like the idea of having some questions I I it really always concerns me to put out this sort of what do you think Amer should do and then you get stuff that you know amher can't do but people want you to do it but it's just like yeah I don't I don't want to do that I don't want to go there well well just yeah and I I I'm glad to hear that I that's my kind of assumption I got you know you know so I what if we just I don't know I my brain thinks in threes and I'm not quite sure what the third question is yet but like what if a a way to sort of Channel feedback a little bit was in the meeting announcement and we could do the meeting announcement before we have a full agenda as as Carol mentioned you know what if we you know posted the draft you know had had three I and I think maybe three questions tops you know um and and maybe a fourth of like anything else you know you know so we don't you know you know and then two Erica wants too you know and then we um you know and and then we we could report and we we could do a little survey you know we could do a survey monkey or whatever so people or an email or something that people could respond writing you know and then we could we we could summarize that you know in a presentation or in the discussion on the 12th make space for anybody who wants to offer public comment in the moment on the 12th um and then let the trust and so I mean does does that keep it relatively contained but still open the door for appropriately for public feedback depends on what the questions are I I guess that which of these excites you that I like that question a lot and and that could even be in some kind of survey so you know you people can actually respond and easily respond and let us know which of these which three of these do you like the best or something I don't know somebody going to tell us everything excites them I guess that's okay but um but then also how do we do this without getting out in front of the trust which has not yet adopted this that's other kind of squishy thing or asking for feedback that sounds like it's a done deal if we're saying which of these excites you I guess it doesn't necessarily mean that but it we need to somehow make that clear this is our this is our draft we expect we hope you know this is at least close hopefully to what is going to be adopted and so we like to know as we think through this some more which of the things are the most exciting to you it just has to be clear somehow in the way that is presented that we're not saying this is already cast in stone and yeah and I like that question and I don't care if there's not any more than that question that question plus is there anything else you want to tell us would kind of be fine with me I don't I don't need there to be three questions especially if this question has some way for people actually let us know which of the things excite them yeah I mean we could even do I I think we have Sera monkey I don't I'm sure we have something you know we could even do a we could list all the strategies let people rank them you know uh I mean because and honestly I'm thinking kind of selfishly here like I'd love to let people submit their names so like hey if if Rob crowner's you know heading up a a development subcommittee you know for trust you know here's three or four people who said yeah I'd help with that you know we we could have I think members working in those groups that don't have to be full trust members that's right um and I think we should Frank we that's that's that should be an aspiration um so to me this is a juncture to sort of attract some of that interest I was going to suggest asking people if they want to help with implementing the goals and maybe you ask which goal they want to help they'd like to help with I I would not let them rank stuff because I think that's giving too much control or expectation of prioritizing the trust work so I I wouldn't go there but I I I do think that that we should propose openness to allowing non-members to be on subcommittees because that can just help more workers to get more more stuff done but they wouldn't be voting members of the trust they would just be working on some of the strategies I think that's a great idea so Pro procedurally I think Carol is right we might have to put this in front of the trust before we can move because we're we can't do decision making uh the the trust has to make that decision can we not make the decision to ask people without can we not decide that part of what we want to do with the subcommittee is ask for input I mean the trust has said it wanted input somewhere along I didn't feel like we're doing anything particularly out of turn if we're proposing other non- trustees be on subcommittees of the trust I think that that that that really should be like we'd be proposing that to the full trust but I think that they do need to decide that model yes to the public to say do you want to help Implement because then we're setting them up it's like we're going around the trust so we wouldn't want to ask that sort of a question without it going before the trust board I don't think yeah that makes sense we can ask people what excites them or what they're interested in right they go back to people if they what's what's I know we we've really extended especially your your uh help Shelly but for us C what's the problem of waiting one more meeting what's the problem of what waiting for one more meeting to put this by the trust and then doing October it just means don't have another month after that to um it's fine to work with you but we could do the work yeah exactly yeah so you could decide to just go at your September 12 meeting and get the Trust basically to say I mean I guess you could always still reach out and if there's something that really seems like a good suggestion you could always go back and modify you could decide as a board so you could just go n on the September 12 meeting and we could get the trust to everyone to feel okay with the goals and the strategies we could talk about the idea of having non- trustees be on subcommittees we could do some of that and then you could go out to the community and come back to kind of review anything in the October meeting like that would be fine if that feels more kind of more comfortable and you know we don't want to cause any trustees to feel in any way that we're going around them or or not being inclusive I mean they are the decision makers Rob what do you [Laughter] think you're muted you're muted I don't really have a strong in one way or the other about about the order um okay because I I don't I don't I think there will be some response but I don't think there there'll be so much response that it'll be unmanageable you know if we do it first we get ask as for public first um but but also waiting also you know logically seems to make sense so I don't sorry I don't really have a strong that's okay that's okay I just want to hear it I think we should air on the side of respecting the whole trust board go to them first and then just say that the vote is you know pending feedback that you know things might change in October but I think we should probably just especially because you have newer members and just to make sure we don't rub anyone okay so we have a plan and it doesn't to make sure I'm clear it doesn't involve me in out a thing first to people about this this will just go out with here is one of the things in the meeting coming up we will and that it just goes out with everything else like everything else okay good I think possibly before October yeah I mean people have been able to come they've seen your notes they know that it's been on the agenda so they could have been coming if they wanted to they could comment right I that's true so it's not like you've been hiding it or haven't been sending it now well in these this meeting these meetings are open if somebody wanted to come to these meetings they could come to these meetings too right yeah so people aren't looking for most most people aren't looking for more more meetings no that's the truth and and so I think am I correct that we're agreeing that if the you know presuming other trust members agree that we seek public input between our September and our our October meetings that's that's the window for that um and the thing that I'll say to you know is we can do that and you know I the staff level I work to sort of you know share links or surveys wherever we land I want to note too that I'll probably end up integrating this with the HBP clubic meeting and probably there's also going to be a meeting on the V W kind of all between somewhere between like 9915 and 1015 will probably do all three of these things so which is fine you know I think so I think like it's actually good because we can say hey there's lots of ways to you know offer input and learn about housing an Amorous this month you know um so if you see it integrated in other things that's that's why some air traffic control right now so for the September meeting let's do I'm thinking three key things one bring everyone on board for the goals and strategies so that we um and then but with the caveat that perhaps we will revisit in October if there's potential feedback to talk about public engagement allowing for there to be some intentional feedback and Greg if you would kind of put together a proposal for that and is um seeing if the trustees feel comfortable with part of that being that subcommittees implementation subcommittees could include people outside of the board so they would be a part of um the work of of a subcommittee that's a um goal specific um I might I might do a little bit of write up and run it by you but that can be put in the package so this is a little bit more clear but um because it's it's a couple things it's one that the we're talking about implementation of the goals and strategies and so one it's the model that there would be potentially three subcommittees one for each goal and then two that we would potentially invite people outside of the trust to engage on that level understanding that that's not a decision-making position so much that decisions would still come to the full trust board and who make the decisions but that the um the subcommittees would work on the um specific actions to move your strategies forward something like that so I'll put together some sort of language um to help us be succinct and um hopefully efficient at the meeting on the 12th since you do have other stuff you need to cover and the third thing is that we will continue to meet a couple more times this group right here I think and that you will go through our guidelines and kind of give us I would like to go through that maybe that's what this group right here if you have time to get it done by our next meeting could look at that together I I would think that would be really valuable yep so for our September 19th meeting I'm hoping that part of it will be that we'll split it between implementation discussing some um implementation moving forward and then two is the guidelines yes great okay I like that okay I think we have some next steps I think we're good yeah yay team shy thank you I mean I will get to say it again but thank you so far along it's very helpful everything so thanks so much thank you very much okay so we will be in touch all right take care take care hey Shell quick question do I don't suppose you had a chance to email Paul list of um uh communities that uh do an automatic transfer yeah we brought up a couple communities you think he still wants yes Somerville yeah there were a couple I think was Somerville Cambridge I actually looked up Cambridge and I couldn't find anything really specific it just on their website under funding for their trust said they get major support from the CPA but so do we so I don't know what that means but I kept on trying to look specifically they did have a contact person but I haven't had a chance to call them if there's any smaller communities too that that'd be really good to know but yeah I mean we don't have a really great list it's just that every now and then I hear and then I I don't necessarily make a note of it so that's kind of the the trouble is to okay like graph graft you look at Grafton their um CPA just under the the community preservation coalitions listing of their projects that you just oftentimes see uh chunk and I I don't think that they require an application I think that they just transfer it so Grafton would be a smaller community that might be a good option that's great I'll look that one as well and I'll see if I can see anything with Somerville it might just be that I have an email from someone of saying we do 45% every year but I'll I'll try to find it okay yeah and if don't break you know if it's easily to share great if not okay that you know that's I yeah sh if you want me to call anybody just let me know which town and I'll do it okay great okay great I was hoping that we satisfied him enough but I guess no you wants specifics I know Paul yeah I would love if it's sumerville because that's where he came from oh really okay well so I will but it might be in an email I might have an email that they confirmed 45% so I'll I'll I'll search my emails it might be a search it thank thank you thank you okay thanks everybody thank you thanks so bye by