##VIDEO ID:iCiEZ_RNvpQ## Rec C there we go okay emmer media we're holding for production okay Mr Marshall Amber media has given us the go ahead you have a quum of the board at 639 and you are the co-host of this meeting I think we're good to go all right thank you Pam you're welcome welcome to the emmer planning board meeting of September 4th 2024 my name is Doug Marshall and as chair of the emmer planning board I am calling this meeting to order at 6:39 p.m. this meeting is being recorded and is available live stream via Amis media minutes are being taken pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended by chapter two of the acts of 2023 this planning board meeting including public hearings will be conducted via remote means using the zoom platform the zoom meeting link is accessible on the meeting agenda posted on the town website's calendar listing for this meeting or go to the planning board web page and click on the most recent agenda where the zoom link is is listed at the top of the page no imperson attendance of the public is permitted however every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the meeting in real time via technological means in the event we are unable to do so for reasons of economic hardship or despite best efforts we will post an audio or video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the town's website board members I will take a roll call when I call your name unmute yourself answer affirmatively and return to mute Bruce cuen I am here thanks Bruce Fred Hartwell I am here thank you uh Jesse major I'm here great to see you um I dug Marshall and present Johanna Newman here hello Johanna and Karen winter here all right we've got everyone except our newest member who has been sworn in now by the or appointed by Town Council uh Mr Lawrence Kutz uh we believe he will be able to join us later in the meeting but but it is possible that he will not make it at all board memb if technical issues arise we may need to pause to fix the problem and then continue the meeting if the discussion needs to pause it will be noted in the minutes please ra please use the rais hand function to ask a question or make a comment I will see your request and call on you to speak after speaking remember to remute yourself to the general public the general public comment item is reserved for public comment on items not later on tonight's agenda Please be aware the board will not respond to comments during general public comment period public comment may also be heard at other times during the meeting when deemed appropriate by the planning board chair please indicate you wish to make a comment when by clicking the raise hand button when public comment is solicited if you have joined the zoom meeting using a telephone please indicate you wish to make a comment by pressing star n on your phone when called on please identify Yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when finished speaking residents can express their views for up to three minutes or at the discretion of the planning board chair if a speaker does not comply with these guidelines or exceeds their allotted time their participation may be disconnected from the [Music] meeting okay so time now is 6:42 and we can start off with our first agenda item which is minutes of our past meetings and our packet included the minutes as drafted by Chris and Pam uh for the meeting on June 26th of this year so board members any comments on these minutes Bruce um I read through and as we got to the Hunters Hill portion of the minutes uh Chris I noticed there was still a question in bold parenthesis in there and I think you probably didn't mean to keep that in the minutes so uh and while we're in there immediately Below in the sentence I'm reported as observing or noting that sound pressure levels from the generator were uh equivalent to U heat water heaters heat pump water heaters and and the minutes say that are often installed on buildings and I I it should say in buildings so it's a small change but it actually means it makes a significant difference to the relevance of the comment um so I would uh the first is a question about whether you intended that to be in the minutes and the second is just a changing a word from on to in um this first section uh the first question having to do with the condition I did leave that in the minutes because it you did discuss that um whether it should apply to the generator or not um and then later on when we issued the con the decision um that was not in there okay so it's it was intentional I wasn't sure I just wanted to be because I haven't seen minutes with like that but so then uh I Would S move or suggest that uh or ask that the uh Records show what I think I actually said and where is that can you tell me I think it's uh I'm not looking at them now but I think it's in the sentence below it's yeah B bottom of page six is where they uh you talk about the generator and the heat pump decel levels installed on a house normally installed in a house is that right yes and that's and and that's relevant because you would be much more sensitive to a a noise that was in the house and so we're basically saying that the generator which is outside the house has a sound pressure level that's more or less equivalent to a a device that's often or is not often is is typically installed in the house well was this the the outside or the inside unit for the heat pump uh it was it was it was a reference to the generator Doug the the they we asked what yeah I just I just mean that that that the heat pump maybe it should just say at the house yeah so we don't have to get into whether it's inside or outside no no I it's it it wasn't uh there's no heat pump as far as I know there I was just drawing attention to what the decibel level the reported decibel level of the generator was they it was reported as being at around um 65 DP or something like that or maybe 60 and just for the clarification I had said Just for information that's equivalent to a heat pump water heater which is typically installed in the house in a house oh a heat water heater yeah oh because it just says heat pump heat pump yes it should be I said a heat pump water heater installed in a house okay that's what I said now I can understand the in yeah thank you okay got it okay so with that one uh edit okay let's see I've got that one you you've got my vote Yes well let's I want to let Jesse comment before we get to the motion uh thank you go ahead Jesse just a grammatical correction not a Content correction top of page nine that sentence that the very first sentence just need some help um maybe recognizing this is the beginning of the process and the board doesn't need to be overly prescriptive might be a suggested edit just the sentence has written doesn't isn't quite grammatically correct that's all yeah okay very good thank you okay any other comments go ahead with that I'll move to accept for minutes with these two changes great thank you anybody want a [Music] second joh you got your hand up second the motion all right any further comments all right we'll go to the roll call Bruce hi and Fred I Jesse hi um Johanna hi Karen hi I'm and I as well six in favor one absent okay that's the end of the first item next item is public comment time is 6:48 we have 20 people in the attendees area and I usually read what I can see from their Zoom uh moniker let's say all right right so we have someone at 413-7686 58 we have ariy Bert Fernandez Karina mandas Eggbert Bacher Elizabeth verling Eric Bach Rock George Ryan Jenny KCK Kathleen Bridgewater Mark robley Matt moyan Mora Keen Michael lapinsky Pat d'angelus Paul Robinson Paula Moore Renee Moss Renee Richard Robert bazooka and Tom [Music] REI all right so this is the time for public comment on items not later on the agenda so if you have a comment on the shutesbury road project this is not the time to make your comment anything else you want to talk about now is the time so please raise your hand I'll give everyone a few seconds to do that if I don't see Hands in the next 15 to 20 seconds I think we'll move on I will also add I'm seeing that there is one phone call in listener maybe that's the number that I called that I read initially okay no one has raised their hand I guess you're all here for the next item on the agenda so we'll move on from public comment there is no public comment uh being asked for this evening time is now 6:15 third item on the agenda in accordance with the provisions of Mass General Law chapter 40a this public hearing has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted and is being held for the purpose of providing the opportunity for interested citizens to be heard regarding SU [Music] [Music] [Music] 202-1184 numbers 9 b-11 9 B-12 9 d-26 and 9 d-27 all located in the r-o zoning District all right so first do we have any board member disclosure for this project all right I don't see any board members raising their hands so I will assume nobody has any relationships with the applicant or the project that that need to be disclosed all right uh can we bring over the the the applicants Representatives I see Tom Rey is already here Tom will anybody be joining you this evening yeah thank you Mr chair Matt Myan uh will be joining me please okay all right Matt's now here Welcome Matt thanks for having me all right so Matt or Tom Now's the Time to give us your opening uh comments perfect introduction thank you Mr chair members of the board for the record Tom Rey attorney with bacon Wilson not of ammer here on behalf of the applicant in the application for a preliminary subdivision plan uh for a four lot subdivision on four Parcels off of shutesbury Road and amers with me this evening Matt myen from tetratech who's the the site designer the site engineer and I think um maybe by way of a little bit of background and I know Miss breast I think did a terrific job of putting this together in a memo that she had provided was just to set some context of really what we're looking to do here and it was um I think it's important to know that we're filing we filed for a preliminary subdivision plan and state law allows us to go through the preliminary plan process and then follow up from the date of that initial preliminary plan filing within seven months with a definitive subdivision plan and then if endorsed approved and endorsed on that definitive subdivision plan to then have the zoning that was in effect at the time of the filing of the preliminary plan Frozen for a period of eight years and so you know quite candidly we're not looking to build a residential subdivision here we're just looking to free zoning and there's a process freeze which is what we're in now from the filing of that preliminary plan and then there is that uh eight-year Freeze from the time of the endorsement of that definitive plan and so I don't know if anybody was on the board a few years ago but we did this for a project on Main Street uh Center East Commons preliminary plan with no intention to subdivide the property and Then followed up with a definitive plan with again no intention to subdivide the property but uh the law allows us to use this to freeze the zoning and it's uh it is a mechanism that developers are able to use so that the rules of the game cannot change partway through the game and so it gives predictability for developers to understand the zoning bylaw that they will be operating under during their diligence process and during their permitting process and so that's what you know ultimately we we you may mention solar and say well where's the solar array where's the battery storage where's the storm water and I'll say I'll say it now and I might say it again later if you bring it up but that's not what this proposal is this proposal has nothing to do with solar and my my asterisk there is the only thing that it has to do with solar is obviously there is a pending application before the zoning board of appeals the town of ammer has existing zoning bylaws they are working towards new solar zoning provisions and what this does is locks in the existing zoning that's in effect at the time of this preliminary plan filing so that when that if and when but I suspect when that new uh solar zoning bylaw passes it would not impact this project so that the project and all the the resources that have been expended to get to this place would not have to be undone uh only to be redone so again just for clarity we're not looking to build a residential subdivision here we we're going through the process we're going to talk about you know I'm going to turn it over to Matt and he's going to talk about the four Lots the the frontage she's going to talk about the area uh Etc but we're not ultimately looking to to build a subdivision and so I'll pause there and I don't know if Miss prup or anybody else has any questions but I I I think it's important um to be transparent all right thanks Tom Chris anything you want to say at this point I don't have anything to say I think I've said what I need needed to say in the memo that I provided to the planning board okay uh Tom uh if if Matt wants to say something at this point I think we should just go ahead into it and then we can all get into the discussion perfect so Matt I'll turn it over to you great so for the record Matt Mo with tetr got our malor Mass uh so on the screen here just to help Orient everyone this is the proposed preliminary plan plan for the subdivision on the left side of the page which is north you have shutesbury Road at the top of the page is the town line between Amherst and pelum and then the very corner here is the town line between Amherst and shutesbury the proposed subdivision would be a residential subdivision four Lots all in excess of 20 acres uh the proposed Road subdivision road is a culdesac that's 786 feet in length so it's less than the the maximum 800t length allowed under the regulations each lot has 150 plus feet of Frontage uh for from a storm water management perspective it's a t it's a traditional system that being shown here and I will zoom in a bit to get just some of the detail uh we have shown uh traditional clothes Network which is a combination of catch basins and manholes that convey run off from the subdivision road to a treatment area in this case we're showing a storm water basin in the dashed line here it's could be an infiltration Bas detention Basin there's a number of different options available to us to to manage the storm water and comply with the storm water management standards for water and sewer U both Water and Sewer are are not reasonably available for this development so we are proposing to have on-site septic systems and on-site private Wells as you can see based on the size of the lot you know 20 plus acres there is more than adequate space to site both of those uh pieces of infrastructure in compliance with the Board of Health requirements so the primary thing is you want your well to be a minimum of 100 feet away from your septic system um we also have adequate space to site the four residential lots and access to them that's really a quick overview of what the preliminary plan has I want to give the board an opportunity to ask any specific questions or cover specific elements of Interest so I'll pause here and more than happy to to answer any questions that the board may have all right um board members any questions right off the bat I know I have one but uh figured Bruce would have some Bruce yes um given that we know the intent of the applicant is not to proceed with this subdivision and given that we have a report from the town engineer that it appears to comply with the the um fundamental elements of the constraints of the zoning bylaw of the subdivision bylaw um is there any point in uh uh digging into uh the details of this well I guess I can certainly referenc Chris's memo that said we really ought to take it serious iously at its face as opposed to you know what the stated intention is yes I I read that too and I but I didn't understand why I mean it's is is there if if we in a position to deny this if we discover that this that it um I um I haven't had to deal with something like this before so it seems to be it's difficult for me to to to to get seriously involved in this when I know it's uh it's not even hypothetical it's uh it's an instrument for a purpose other than to create a subdivision okay Chris yeah I think you should still treat it seriously you should still review it under the zoning bylaw and the subdivision regulations and the applicant has asked for a couple of waivers they've asked for a waiver of the um requirement to uh have a plan at a scale of I think it was one inch equals either 20 or 40 feet their their plan is one inch equals 120 ft they've also asked for waivers from the um Prohibition in the subdivision regulations that says you can't have a a septic system and um Wells on uh on a subdivision and then later on in the subdivision Rags there is a provision for waivers to be um granted um so I suggest that you you know go through go through the memo see if you have any questions on the memo and then um vote on the waivers and vote as to whether you're going to um accept or approve this preliminary subdivision plan and I must say that whether you accept the preliminary subdivision plan or not it doesn't preclude the applicant from um then proceeding to file definitive plan within 7 months so really this is an opportunity for you to you know look at the plan that's being presented and if there are things here that are missing or that you don't like and you would prefer to have them presented differently in the definitive plan that now is your time uh to do that um I'd also note that there's no grading shown on this plan this is just the existing uh topography so of course when the definitive plan is uh presented you will want to have um a grading plan associated with it so um I guess that's that's all I have to say but I I do think that you need to treat this seriously uh Chris will will this interact with the concom at all no we're not required to do so so this can be finalized without sort of a definitive storm water solution that meets the any concom issues yes what will happen is if this were to go ahead you know if you were to approve the definitive plan and it were to go ahead each um it looks like there's no Wetland associated with the roadway although there may be I think I guess there is a little stream that uh goes along shutesbury road so that may be in concom jurisdiction but if this actually were to go ahead and be um built the applicant would need to go to the concom for that crossing of the stream at the beginning of the road as well as for any development of any of these Parcels they all have they all appear to have Wetland on them in some place and so if any of the portions of the development came close to those Wetlands um those would be subject to Conservation Commission jurisdiction but there there isn't a requirement to go to the Conservation Commission at this time okay well I guess I was partly asking because interaction with concom could uh alter the boundaries of the parcels no it's it's possible that there would be some reason to change it that could happen yeah okay in which case they would come back after the definitive subdivision plan with a revised definitive subdivision plan well not necessarily I've seen cases where the subdivision plan is approved and if the a roadway is approved with regard to Wetlands then each individual parcel comes before the Conservation Commission when it's time to develop it and each individual parcel is considered on its own and then um the Conservation Commission may decide that one of these Parcels isn't developable and then if that were the case and the applicant wanted to change the lot line if the roadway is approved then the applicant could file an anr proven required plan to change the lot line okay good uh thank you for that context um I guess I don't see any hands from other board members at least yet and so I will ask one question I had related to the storm water the proposed drain easement Matt uh is that simply collecting and treat treating or taking care of storm water that's on the road or does it have anything to do with storm water that's on the individual Parcels so the the storm water basin and the proposed drain easement would be specifically for the purposes of treating the subdivision road we would have to look at each individual lot on a case-by Case basis as to whether or not additional treatment would be necessary uhuh uh am I right that the grading more less goes from water runs from left to right down this generally so that the actual low point of the overall site is in the upper right corner oh it's in the lower right corner okay yeah so generally the site it's it's higher on the left side blows come down to the South you can see a little bit of a finger here Wetland finger and stream running off site so the roadway that's shown the subdivision Road here generally runs from shutesbury Road at a high point into the site where we'd collect all the storm water and treat it and then discharge it over land like it flows today uh towards the towards the interior of the site okay all right um Bruce um um Matt you may have just kind of answered my question but let's see uh because my question was what what fraction of the road uh would drain gravity drain into that easement and if the high point is at shb road if I understood you correctly so that means that there's no runoff from the road back into the shy Road it do we correctly understand that it would or could once the Topography is uh Eng grading and so forth is established that you would expect that the entire area of that uh Division Road would drain into the uh Basin that's the intent of the design is to have everything come interior to the site as we go move towards a definitive plan and start getting into more of the details of the design uh we'll have to evaluate if that's completely feasible if in in the event there was some runoff headed towards shsb Road there are specific requirements we'll need to meet so we won't be able to increase any flows onto the public right away so if for some reason we find this the Point wants to be say 150 ft into the site that first 150 ft going to shb Road would have to be treated in and any Peak runoffs would be mitigated I see okay and uh um oh go ahead it's gone um I can't remember my second question it'll come back to you I'm sure yeah we'll give you a few minutes to we'll talk about something else for a while um any other comments from the board at this point I I guess I had one other subject I wanted to just touch on um if no one does and that is the absence of Water and Sewer Service and uh does do you does anybody know exactly where the nearest Water and Sewer Service is uh and maybe an inverse way of of asking the question is am I correct that all the abutters particularly the residential abutters already have water uh Wells and have septic fields uh none of them are on Town Services is that right that's my understanding that shsb road does not have water or Sewer Service in the vicinity of this property okay which is what led us to proposing or requesting the waiver so we could propose both private Wells and on-site septic systems to support residential subdivision Chris do you have any knowledge about that there is no water and sewer in the in this vicinity um I do want to say that all of the properties that are along shutesbury Road were developed as Frontage lots and they weren't um required to adhere to the subdivision um regulations with regard to not allowing sewer or septic and a well on the same site so so those those lots did not have to adhere to that particular requirement which relates to subdivision plans just wanted to make that clear all right so it sounds like I would be most likely correct to conclude that all of those lots along shutesbury Road are have a well and have a septic system that they are discharging their waste to yes okay all right so that that for me at least Bears on the waiver request for similar treatment um anybody else have any comments in terms of the board I am going to go to uh public comment soon I think um given the number of attendees I'm sure some of them want to make a comment Johanna thanks um I guess I'll just share my thoughts that I agree with Chris that we should take it seriously and you know if the solar project doesn't move forward for one reason or another that the zoning that we decide could become the future of this land and we have a responsibility to do due diligence by that so um that's at least the spirit in which I'm approaching this conversation um I don't have any specific questions but just wanted to share that all right thank you Bruce you thought of your question yes I I guess I would hope that if this this stand was going to be used it would be used a little more intensively than this but I do know it's It's Tricky up that way but my question was uh I didn't I I don't imagine that the fire department of being involved in this but uh would we would we imagine that uh there would be uh turning radi and all of that sort of stuff here that would satisfy um fire apparatus to be able to get in and turn around and come back out again I think Chris uh Chris's memo said that the the the radius of the turnaround was adequate for the fire department yes I read that too I just wanted to be because I don't think the fire department have actually at this point I mean as you say this is very is preliminary I guess so that means that all sorts of uh pieces of information that one would normally be interested in um have yet to be uh we don't have a I'm sure the storm water calculations and everything haven't been done so this is a concept that says this uh drainage BAS should work here and it should be big enough and all of that sort of thing but nothing is well nothing is definitive so um uh iess I think I mean we could certainly highlight the absence of fire department comments yeah say and and uh you know in our approval uh include the I don't know Chris if it would be a recommendation or a uh condition that that the definitive plan uh you know have received some comments or approval from the fire department certainly Matt yeah I was just going to add that yeah that the turning radius does comply with the subdivision regulations and that you know we've we've offered to to discuss with the fire chief what his expectations would be and if a sistern is required that's something that could be incorporated into the definitive plan and the sistern would be to provide water for firefighting in the fire protection water exactly all right okay um well then why don't we go to public comment uh as I said we have we're up to 22 public attendees and uh if any of you would like to make a public comment on this submission uh now is a good time for you to raise your hand okay Pam I see one hand uh from Michael Linsky let's bring him over hi mik hello hi Mike Linsky 167 shopr Road I'm out a butter and um I'm G I'll spare you my comments but this proposal really brings up a lot of questions and hopefully asking those questions to you you can ask the applicant and maybe get some some good answers um I'm more than a little confused by who the applicant really is in this proposal I see that Kohl's is written down as the applicant but yet the people who are speaking seem to be speaking for the solar project and it even goes to the extent of shutesbury solar LLC is actually on the map now I don't know if shutesbury solar LLC is the applicant or if koh's is the applicant this leads to a lot of confusion on my part um that's one question who is really submitted in the subdivision plan second question is what does a definitive subdivision plan looks like I I don't have a lot of experience with this so I'd be interested in someone describing that it sounds like that would require a lot of work and a lot a lot more meetings by the planning board to approve that which seems to me like an awful waste of time for a project that's already been described as it's not real you know it's it's kind of make believe we're just doing it to try to hold the zoning in place um more importantly though what we're talking about here is two different uses I'm not sure if the project that Tom described was two different uses or not but there's already an active submission for an industrial solar facility that's been in the zba for a year now a proposal is coming along for a housing subdivision it seems like there's a real conflict there they're not you're trying to use a housing subdivision to freeze the zoning on an industrial solar facility that seems really out of whack to me and I'm wondering if people can comment on that further no one seemed to find that there would be some sort of imbalance there to me I could understand if it was a Housing Development under construction right now and the housing development person was halfway through and they were afraid of the housing development regulations changing but this is taking an industrial solar facility and trying to freeze the zoning and using housing as an excuse to me that doesn't seem 30 seconds sure um the other thing is I wonder how this subdivision affects the chapter 61 status of the property the entire property that we're looking at is under chapter 61 does this preliminary subdivision plan kick off the uh chapter 61 status and does it start the process of bringing that out of chapter 61 and how does that refer to the town's right of first refusal on land okay and the last thing is how does this whole process affect the status of the ongoing zba hearings all [Music] right thank you Michael Tom do you want to resp comment on any of that at this time sure i' I'd be happy to so uh number one the applicant Is WD Kohl's as the land owner they're also the applicant uh two and I can appreciate Mr linsky's confusion because it's um a Nuance of the law and and the way that the law works and it's the the seminal case is broken Stone and what that case says is it's the land shown on the plan which uh receives that zoning freeze protection it's it's not the subdivision it's the land shown on the plan so in the future if the definitive plan was to be approved the subdivision Road does not have to be constructed the Lots do not have to be divided as they've been shown it is just sufficient to have the land uh which is shown on the plan that's what can Avail itself of the the zoning protection um regardless of its few of its use correct that is absolutely correct um and then the last piece as it relates to chapter 61 uh the the chapter 61 requires a conversion um so actually doing something different with the land which is not you know that that forestry protection in in so if there was a shovel to go in the ground for any residential industrial commercial use at that point there would be a conversion um but just this planning stage is is not such a conversion and I think the last one had to do with uh how does this relate to the pending zoning board of appeals application and I would consider them in two separate paths um you know I I do this across the Commonwealth and this is something that many developers Avail themselves of when there's a new or anticipated zoning bylaw or uh the development that they're proposing and and not just solar it could be like I said earlier we did it for some housing on Main Street in in ammer um when there is either a contemplated or anticipated zoning change or the time that it's going to take the developer to get through the process and the amount of money that they're going to expend uh would be more speculative and uncertain if they didn't have this certainty this this really promotes development in the Commonwealth uh so that as I said earlier the rules can't change partway through the game so they won't have necessarily just if if we got the subdivision approved it doesn't impact the solar and and somewhat vice versa okay Chris uh your hand is up uh yeah Mr lapinsky asked um what would a definitive subdivision plan contain and a definitive subdivision plan would show grading for the roadway um and it would also show a profile of the roadway of the center line of the roadway um it would probably show um grading for that drainage basin and it would show inverts on all those catch Basin and manholes so that we would make sure that they would actually work to convey water into that drainage basin um and there is question uh I believe that if this were to go to the definitive phase um the applicant would need to meet with the Board of Health to get advice and recommendations on um septic locations and um potential Well locations and I know the Board of Health has requirements about both I don't think those would necessarily need to be shown because the uh um Parcels would not then be uh moving towards development as residential Parcels but there may be some recommendations that the Board of Health might have with regard to test pits that might be done to show whether these properties can perk for septic system so that's that would be up to the Board of Health to tell us about that and that's something that we'll have to explore as this project moves towards the definitive subdivision plan phase there would also be details there'd be details of catch basins there'd be details of manholes there's probably going to be a detail of that drainage basin there'd be details showing what the thickness of the pavement would be Etc um so that's just a general idea of what is contained in a definitive subdivision plan all right uh Matt yeah Chris that was that was extremely well said um the the one thing I would add just as an education point so there's this is a two-step process so there's the preliminary plan that's relatively straightforward to prepare what you just described is a much more comprehensive effort so the reason we come to the board with a preliminary plan is to get some recommendations and feedback on our intentions for a definitive plan so that when we leave this process we're on the same page of which direction we head for def Plan before we expend all those resources doing test bits preparing roadway grades pulling details together doing storm water reports all that more involved detailed effort we want to make sure we're on the same page with the board before we initiate that process so that's why we're here tonight to to present this particular plan all right Bruce um well if I would to take this seriously uh um and I thought this was really going to happen I would I mean my the only line of inquiry that I would make uh because I think uh I'm I'm you know in principle understand why uh the waivers are necessary because without the waivers uh uh it's not going to happen I I think I know how far away the sewer is and I don't think it's on this side of the Railway line um so it's clearly uh going to be an on-site systems or or the project isn't going to happen um but if as I said if I were to take this seriously I would probably pursuing the applicant to say it's the best you can do with this site is is is is can you can you not put more housing in here than four Lots um if I were taking it seriously I would like to see that uh um it was a little more densely uh that the land was used a little more imaginatively if it's not you might say well you know Bru it's it's only going to have four houses but we're going to do farming at the top end of it or something like that um but it just seems to me that uh and I can understand for the purposes that this has been done uh I would probably want to make a very perfunctory um gesture I wouldn't want to elaborate it I wouldn't there wouldn't be any point in gilding a lily so uh this is why I find this hard to take seriously because if I were taking it seriously and if the applicant was taking it seriously they might be spending a lot more uh investigating how this site could be uh exercise how the site could be utilized how the site you know what's the highest and best use and how you can maximize value and so forth but since that's not the point of this it it doesn't seem to me to be logical to be pushing the applicant to uh figure out how they can do a better job or do do a better job of using the site more intensively I don't know whether there's a question there but that that would be the line of inquiry I would make if I were to take this seriously uh okay I'm gonna let Nate speak next Nate yeah welcome you showed up late and I don't know exactly what time yeah I think like 15 minutes ago or so maybe around 7:15 anyways the um but Bruce we have to take it seriously I mean we can't encourage a land owner to do something else right so this is I mean whether or not there was solar happening on this they could come in and propose this as a subdivision and so you know this could actually get built right so the thought would be for me is okay are the do the waivers make sense is the road layout are lots okay grades everything and then you know if they're if they have if they actually want to go through with this they have to come back with a definitive plan like this subdivision is essentially allowed and so even we don't require only cluster or o only open space conservation development they can do a conventional subdivision and so we have to respond to it I you know and so yeah I mean this happened the other year when we had a lot of zoning changes you know there was like four five subdivision proposals but you have to take all of them seriously because they could actually be built right so you know at some point they have to actually get through and go through a definitive plan get it all going to get that zoning freeze and so you know do the slopes and the grades look okay is it reasonable where the road layout is is the Lots okay and to me you know a preliminary subdivision plan doesn't even need to be filed it's it's actually kind of a courtesy to the board and it allows as Matt said to understand if there are any concerns and then they come back within a time frame for definitive um so you know I would think about this as okay what if they really were going to do just those few Lots you know are there other are there actually concerns about you know the road layout drainage other infrastructure questions um you know yeah sure we might want to see something different there but this is kind of how we have to respond to this application well yes the I mean how it's SE presented was it it makes quite good sense and if uh and we've had some experience with this part of the world with the uh with previous uh more intensive subdivisions that were or uses up here that that that were frustrated to a degree by the uh by the the the the nature of the topography and and uh and and uh and water and various other things so maybe this is the most intensive use that we can imagine here but uh as I said if I were to take it seriously so I will I'll ask the applicant uh can you uh sa my curiosity as to why there's only four Lots here and not eight or 10 or whatever more Tom or Matt yeah so go ahead Tom I'll yeah I'll just because I'm sure there's an engineering answer to it I don't even know that we investigated it to be honest with you Bruce you know in order to get the threes we're really looking for the Baseline subdivision that uh would pass muster as a subdivision this probably has maybe one too many Lots if we were really pushing it because um maybe even two too many Lots because you would only have a lot if the subdivision Road provided Frontage for that lot so that's really what we're looking to do uh plus quite candidly there's a per lot fee so the more Lots you have the more money you have to pay in an application and to a certain extent if you're never intend to build them why draw more and then why would Matt go and I don't want to take food off his plate but why have Matt do more engineering etc for for more Lots just to scratch that itch if you will so with all due respect that's why we've done what we've done well that's that's all right back to where I was at the beginning which is uh so if if if Nate's concern is that we may actually end up building this I think I might uh Nate say uh why it's really me to take it seriously is because if we did end up uh with a serious subdivision the uh the questions that Tom says have not been asked and answered uh the investigation and Analysis and and and various explorations of solution Concepts and so forth that he just said haven't been done and he explained why it hasn't been done which we all know why but it would seem to me that if this were heading in that direction as a serious subdivision then uh the applicant would probably seek to uh uh revise the subdivision and and and uh so why why am I why are we not just happy to say if if if the if there is a provision in the in the law the state law that allows this to this freezing to happen um why don't we just accept that um make sure that it's a it's a functional subdivision which it appears to be um and not pursue uh the kind of serious discussion which I just tried to and and ran in didn't run into a brick wall I just ran off a cliff I just think uh Bruce that there's this this requires a sort of duality in your thinking one is you half of your brain knows that it's probably not going to happen that it's being done for another purpose and the other half of your brain just needs to look at it and say if this is what they want to do is this allowable and plausible and if there's anything in particular we'd want to see in the definitive plan that's not already uh clear in the guidelines for creating a definitive plan what would that be and you know I mean the main things that have come up in the discussion so far was making sure you've touched based with the fire department and uh probably touch based with with the Board of Health uh otherwise it's you know embellishing the drawing to to make it more real and some details that that support that all of which is standard engineering practice and is probably spelled out in the in the definitive bylaw so you know and as far as should we push further with this I agree with with you Bruce there's no real point in doing it I am perfectly happy if we go straight to a couple emotions to Grant the waivers and you know wish them well uh expecting to see a definitive plan within seven months yes I I agree I because I mean in looking at this I I don't see it seems to be functional um it's defensible uh the waivers are obviously uh you would go to that portion of the law that allows the uh the exercise of the discretion of the pering authority which I guess is us and so far as the scale uh things this is a big big site I think uh the scale drawing that keeps the drawing on one sheet which yeah I know for my experience is a hell of a good idea and then you just simply ask for a detailed plan of this lower area which they would obviously do that gives you the uh the the the the the grading and all of the other inverts and stuff that you wanted detail so there's a small portion of this plan that needs to be drawn at uh at a at a at a higher level of a finer deto so but that waiver I think is not only acceptable it's it's intelligent and um appro yeah uh Matt I see your hand and then uh I've seen one public hand come up so I'm going to call on them after you I'll be brief yeah and as it relates to the scale Bruce that's exactly what we would plan to do for a definitive plan we'd have this overall view that you see as part of the preliminary plan and then we would block out at 40 scale the subdivision road to self or or other you know 50 scale if it fits better there that shows all of the detailed improvements in plan View and then a profile view so it wouldn't be only the 120 scale drawing for the definitive it would be that as an overview and then a focus in on the road and the immediate improvements associated with it sounds good okay thanks Matt um Pam can we bring Sharon wisen bomb over and let her make a less than three minute public comment okay can another one has shown up hello Sharon can you hear me okay yes we can okay thank thank you um 86 Henry Street ammer and I have a farm in chisbury down the road from this proposed development and I would just like to take a moment to call this what it is first of all a a bylaw is there to protect the public from things that might be um and probably will be really destructive to our town and this is an effort to bypass the bylaw and bypass the interests of the town and it it they're being very Tom is being very straightforward that the intention is to lock this in before the bylaw so that it doesn't apply to the Solar Development and I think it's just important to say it for the public exactly what's going on that this is an effort to bypass our interests in favor of this uh foreign um industry coming into our town um so that's all thank you okay thank you Sharon uh let's bring over Kathleen Bridgewater sorry can you hear me now yes we can Kathleen you have uh three minutes give us your add address and your comments prob will need one so that's fine um I just want to point out that the indeed the houses uh going uh farther to the east on shutesbury road are one house one lot against the street whereas the house the uh houses there uh four of them um that have been built uh farther up shutesbury Road including mine all were required under the under the planning board to have 150 ft of Frontage um cons considered uh yeah I guess that's the easiest way to say it so for the three that you can see in the picture uh and for another that exists on the other side of the S of the driveway that goes through the middle of this um of our subdivision if you will um there each each house was required to have 150 ft of Frontage there's absolutely not that Frontage on leading into this subdivision so I think that if you approve it it would become a waiver to what we understood when we bought our land uh that would be required of building on on shutesbury road if you did not face directly onto the street so I think that one must be careful about what putting a stamp of approval on something that they can later say oh but you said it was okay um you and you gave a gave a waiver uh that that the other houses uh that our budding did not have Okay uh thank you very much okay thank you Chris uh I guess I'm expecting you to comment on that and about the difference of Frontage requirement uh for a subdivision versus the frontage lot well um Miss Bridgewater is right that the frontage Lots were required to have 150t of Frontage and the lots that are proposed for this subdivision are um also required to have 150 ft of Frontage on this new subdivision road but the subdivision Road itself is not required to have 150 ft of Frontage it's just required to have enough room to actually allow a roadway in there with the the appropriate turning radi so um pretty much everywhere in town um you know the the roadways the subdivision roadways do not have um the amount of Frontage on the main roadway that would be required of a lot on the main roadway and I can think of my own Street which is Heatherstone road which ab buts pelum Road and the place where the Heatherstone Road meets pelum Road does not have the um amount of Frontage that a lot in my neighborhood would be required to have which is 120 feet so roadways are treated differently from lots and that's something that um you know people who who are in this business understand but many others don't understand that so I just wanted to say that the roadway itself does not require 150 ft of Frontage thank you okay thank you okay I don't see any more hands from the public or the board um all right so at the risk of uh essentially calling the question I'm going to try to formulate a motion uh Chris I hope you'll help me with this um and I'm going to make it in the affirmative just so that we can depart from there if we need to um that the board approves the waiver to uh not depict this s this uh subdivision at 1 to 40 scale with the exception of the area around the roadway that the board um approve the uh request for an exception related to the provision of town services for water and sewer that the board I don't know Chris either recommend or require that the applicant receive in input uh let's say receive direction from both the fire department and the Board of Health prior to submitting the definitive subdivision plan and that with those conditions we approve this the preliminary subdivision plan and we close the public hearing so I think there's five points in there uh Bruce tell me what I missed nothing I was going to remind you to close the public hearing but God bless you you sneak it in at the end I'll second the motion okay thank you yeah I usually forget that don't I um so board members uh anybody want to change any of those okay uh Bruce thanks for your second I'll just saate for the record the time is 7:44 in case somebody wants to know that in posterity on the recording um in that case we can go to a vote um and before I do that Chris do you think I do you think I missed anything okay there's enough in there okay all five points a vote in favor is a favor of all the conditions uh the recommendations and the approvals and the closure of the hearing Bruce I'll start with you I approve all right thank you Fred I approve all right Jesse hi thank you Johanna hi okay Karen I okay all right thank you uh board members and thank you Tom and Matt Mr Marshall yes you did not vote oh well I didn't need my vote to pass but I'll vote in the affirmative too Thank you Pam you're welcome thank you very much thank you Tom thank you Matt appreciate the time guess we'll see you uh sometime in by by the end of 2025 certainly certainly February I think is the date okay sooner than that all right good night great thank you have a good one all right um board members let's see well let's sneak in the next one before we take a break um time is 7:46 and the fourth item on our agenda is planning Board elections and reorganization um I had expected that our new remember uh Lawrence Kutz would be joining us for this topic and he is not here um he told us he wasn't sure whether he could make it before 8:30 and he might not make it at all and so I wonder whether we want to delay this or do we want to just go ahead and talk about this how do people feel anybody anybody Bruce um I would uh nominate you to continue as chair and I so but without actually doing that but simply expressing the intention um would you uh accept the nomination if uh so nominated I'm curious in in the sort of hypothetical that you just expressed I would hypothetically accept well that's helpful thank you you okay but I agree I think it would be worth I think we should wait and let Larry at least experience our wonderful interaction for you know an hour or two before we ask him to vote on this kind of thing I agree uh Chris uh W can you encourage Larry to watch tonight's meeting if not a couple of our previous meetings just so that he has a sense of how uh uh what a scintillating chair I am and um how our other officers are diligently doing their work I certainly will yep okay okay so the time now is 7:48 I think we can move on and um why don't we take a f minute break now and then we'll come back and get through our regular topics so come back at five of eight if you can make it back by then thank you e e e e e e e e e e e for okay looks like all the board members are back we're still missing one staff member BR is not what's that Chris red is not back yet oh you're right I just saw His Image I didn't notice that his body wasn't visible thank you there he is walking in from stage right I guess uh Chris do you think we can go ahead without Nate yeah okay all right uh resuming our meeting the time is 7:56 uh next item on the agenda is hold business not reasonably anticipated 48 hours in advance Chris do we have any I don't have any do Nate or Pam have any no doesn't doesn't look like it okay how about for new business similarly unanticipated new business no form a anr subdivision applications no we have one that is oh sorry Pam did you want to say I say I was just going to say we don't have one tonight we had thought it might be um ready to bring to you tonight but it hasn't been submitted yet okay so there's there's one on its way to us but we don't have it yet that's right all right how about zba applications I don't have any anything new I don't know if Nate wants to update about wayfinders project sure yeah the um the comprehensive permit from wayfinders was reviewed by the zba last week they also went before the Conservation Commission for a notice of intent and the re the review went really well for both and so the zba actually moved it along pretty quickly uh they're coming back in September uh on the 19th and 26th and so those are meetings dedicated just to the hearing for the comprehensive permit so I'm imagining we'll be pretty far along by the end of September there weren't many public comments there was just one in support it was a neighbor uh the zba didn't have many questions uh so if the planning board would like to see the project I think we had thought you know the um the later meeting this month or early October would be a good time so you know I think we would you know we should we should plan on that uh Chris do we have much on our agenda at our next meeting no no you don't um why don't we just go ahead and try to have them come next time yes there is one thing on the agenda if Pam would remind me of it it's 4:22 Amity Street will be continued that's right that is a big one yeah but it's big yeah but you could um well I mean do you actually think we'll get through 422 Amity Street next time not not in one night I don't think so I'm wondering whether we ought to do wayfinders first and then however long we want to talk about 422 Amity Street have we um expecting to continue it I think we continued it to 6:35 on that night we did so we made it first yeah but you you could also um the next meeting in o October is the 16th of October I think honestly I think that's a little late the zba might meet again on October 10th so you want to try to do it on is it September 18th it's September 18th I'm sorry did I say yeah it's two weeks two weeks from tonight y yeah I mean I think we could have the way find wayfinders come back right I mean it's you know if 422 am is gonna go on for a bit at some point you could just decide to continue it again and hear wayfinders um uh when it comes when wayfinders comes back this is going to be us just getting information and uh potentially uh making recommendations to zba right and so y the application is all online if you go to the zba web page in the left hand side it's I think it's called like the East Street School in belter toown road wayfinders project but all their application documents their plans uh their illustrative plan their w requests everything's uh available and so you know this would be a chance for the planning board to review it again just because there were a lot of comments earlier this year when you um you know reviewed the the the site plan and Architectural plans so yeah I remember a lot of comments on the architecture they did take your comments seriously and they made changes to U the plans as a result okay yeah I think you know the zba had questions there's um on one site it's about one space parking space per unit on the belter toown road on the East Street it's about a half space per unit so they had some questions about that uh they did General site uh design and layout parking lighting last time they didn't have too many questions uh on the 19th they're going to look at architecture systems and get into management and leasing so um you know it' be a good time for the planning board to look at it yeah so why don't we put it you know I mean I guess nominally at 7 o' or something but expect to talk at least an hour about Amity Street probably an hour and a half and then uh then we'd get to wayfinders from 8 to 9 or something okay all right um any other zba applications we should know about not that I know of that that's the big one okay why while we're on zba can anybody describe where zba is at with the shutesbury road solar application I can describe that um they really haven't gotten into reviewing the solar application it was submitted last summer and they had one um major presentation about it in August and then ever since then it's been um continued and continued and we have made progress in one regard which is that um the CBA authorized uh staff to um put out RF an RFP and review the RFP responses and hire a third-party reviewer so we have done that so we have a thirdparty reviewer for various topics but um there hasn't been a real thorough presentation since last last August the um and you mean August in 2023 August of 2023 um the applicant is on the verge of submitting a notice of intent to the Conservation Commission um they have been uh they received comments from the Wetland administrator and in addressing those comments I guess it's taken them time to address those comments so they will soon be submitting to the Conservation Commission so there should be eventually two tracks going along with the zba reviewing the same set of plans that the Conservation Commission is reviewing um so it's taking a long time yes okay thank you uh Johanna and then Chris are the is the reason the project hasn't been taken up by the zba because the zba keeps pushing it or because the applicant isn't ready I would say it's really more that the applicant isn't ready um it took them until sometime in so from last fall it took them until sometime in April to submit um new plans um and since then they've been uh trying to figure out you know what to do about the wetlands and I think finally they've you know settled down on what their plan is um and they just haven't submitted the notice of intent yet so I think it's it's really the applicant it's not the zba that's holding things up okay upcoming spp Su spr applications but nothing has been submitted so there are always things out the in the wings but nothing's been submitted all right uh um planning board committee and liaison reports housing subcommittee Jesse yeah thanks um we met last week short meeting we set meeting times for the fall which will be the fourth Wednesday evenings at 7 if anybody's curious to join us uh subject to some changes around holidays November December um we continue discussing the definition we hope to bring planning board the next month or two around defining rental houses um with sensitivity around what's involved in that process we had discussion about how that may or may not interface with the rental registration form have hopefully meeting soon to discuss that with staff uh we talk some more about the new state law around accessory dwelling units and basically on the advice of Nate decided to maybe next time discuss and comp with questions about the law but wait to see what else shakes out with all the other meetings and people questioning how that's going to uh be put into effect and what what may or may not come out of the other others questions about it or less other towns um yeah that was pretty much it I had a related question I guess for staff which is about the overlay District proposal that we put forward where can we get an update on that has that made it to any other agenda yet we can wait for staff report I could uh I can answer yeah the um I'm working on a memo I actually hope to have it done this week uh and then um you know I yeah we have to the process has been that we would write a memo to the town manager and then the town manager brings it to council Min inter understanding is that we the planning board voted to go right to council as a zoning Amendment with it um so that might be the route we're taking uh additionally there's you know been some changes to uh you know Mass General Law related to um how an area a zoning change can take place if it allows you know multif family and mix use and other things and so the overlay actually is probably um would fit into this category where it only needs a majority vote of approval by Council to become um enacted so it doesn't need a two-thirds majority and I think the law states that the the sponsoring um board or the recommendations at the hearing process at some point there has to be a motion uh that then defines this as you know like an area that is appropriate and meets the the um the parts of Mass General law and so it's kind of up to e each locality to kind of Define some of these things and so I think that you know when this comes if this you know this once this moves forward I think staff has to just confirm with KP law but I think this will just need a simple majority and there'll be some discussion about what that means and so um you know a lot of communities you know might propose zoning amendments actually that would fit this category because it's a little easier instead of a two-thirds that was never the intent actually it was really just to work on the housing piece so yeah there's been some push to get this done I have a draft memo I just want to finish it this week and then send it off for review to staff and it can get forwarded I guess Council has time on their agendas in the next uh four to six weeks and so the hope would be to get it in front of them uh it was a few meeting dates kind of um to where they could get it I think in September even that'd be great thanks and and I'll just finish my thought and the reason I was asking about actually was thinking about the 422 Amity and how that may or may not dive with what's some some of what's in the over lay proposal yeah I think the applicant has looked at it so you know I think you know staff has said to the applicant just move forward with their propo their um site plan review application they have a variance from the zoning board and then if the overlay gets adopted you know there could be changes to it and so the applicant could always come back and amend their site plan or do something different to you know to change it so you know I don't they've asked and you know depending on that you know this could be in hearings for a bid and so uh you know they could move forward with with you know their Cy riew and then they could get it approved the Cy review and then just wait right they don't have to act right away they could see how the discussion of the overlay goes and then decide to come back so I don't I think that's what they're going to do is bring the 422 through the site plan review process sure great thanks okay um pvpc Bruce uh nothing to report okay um I don't have anything on CPAC Doug can I just jump in quickly just for people listening the you know proposal uh window opened and they're due at the end of the month so it's an online form through the CPA committee's web page and the the portal application portal became uh available September 1st and it closes at the end of the month so if people are looking to submit it's it's due soon I I should also mention I'm hoping that someone else will be the planning board's representative to CPAC for the coming year uh I would like to give up that uh hat let's say so Larry if you're watching the recording yeah I mean to Doug's point the CPA committee um will start meeting in October and they meet almost like every week or every other week and then every week in November and December they try to finish their recommendations by the end of the year and so Prett gets int yeah but it's a pretty interesting appointment I think I mean made many applications to them it's a it's a you learn a lot about what's going on it's also a Feelgood more or less because you're giving away money and uh obviously you can't give it to everybody but you you're helping good things happen all right uh drb Karen nothing new to report nothing new okay and Chris anything from CRC yeah we have um almost completed our solar bylaw round one and um so we're going to be sending that off to staff members um The Building Commissioner the Department of Public Works um Amy rzeki and and Guilford moing the fire department and others um for review and then the CRC will make more uh changes to it and then um hopefully submit it to Town Council to put it through the process um so we feel Stephany and I have been working on it with CRC and we feel pretty good about it okay is there any reason that the planning board might want to see that before it goes to council or we'll just wait until it they refer it to us that's a good question um maybe um you will be seeing it as you know when it goes to Town Council then it gets referred to the planning board and the CRC for public hearing if you would like to see it before that um we can make arrangements to have that happen we thought it was important to have staff review at first because we're the ones who usually work most closely with the zoning bylaw I know you do too but we're like doing it every day so um if you would like to have it after staff reviews it I can um I can get it to you well how do people feel about that would you want to see it or I think if we're going to see it on the way from the council town from Town Council yes I I'm I didn't need to Double Do Double dip on this one okay all right never mind anything else on CRC Chris um no nothing that concerns zoning I know they're working on nuisance house by law maybe that has already passed through and has gone elsewhere I'm not really sure but that was certainly one of the last things that they were working on okay all right um time is 83 and we're up to the report of chair I don't think I have any report to make tonight Chris report of Staff yes we are um in the process of interviewing people for the planner position and we've got three candidates that we're going to be interviewing later this week um they're good candidates and uh we hope that we can offer the position to one of them so um I'm pleased to report that to you um my position has also been advertised um on mass planners list serve probably on indeed and other places um we're going to try to get it posted on the APA American planners Association Massachusetts website um and I'm hoping that after I retire that I'll be able to come back part-time and um work on some things so that's that's my report but at that point Chris I'm hoping you won't work on Labor Day it was nice and quiet here on Labor Day I can think I was very surprised to get your emails on Labor Day Nate sure yeah I was gonna say um Chris only has a meeting I guess left with us and so um and then you know that staff there'll be staff changes to the planning board uh but in terms of things that are going on Dodson and flinker you know is holding um kind of community events on September 13th 14th that's Friday and Saturday it's in person um you know a walkabout downtown and then things at the high school uh you know there may be some online uh supplemental information or you know online comments we're hoping to get that set up soon the town's also engaged uh a consultant to update the housing production plan and they're also going to be doing some Outreach in September in October I think they're planning a big uh Community event on October 1st and they'll set up an online survey so that'll be coming out soon and then with the adus I just wanted to say that staff attended a workshop um and there's another one but there you know the the language in the in the law uh leaves a lot for kind of judgment and kind of legal decision making in terms of you know how this moves forward and so I think for the housing subcommittee and then the planning board it could be you know what are are their questions but on the um Mass APA is you know hosting two workshops and over four over 500 um people you know attended or registered and there there are a lot of questions you know in terms of even what the definition means can you have more than 18 ad0 on a property uh you know permitting if there's more than one non-conforming Lots if you have an existing Adu that doesn't meet the definition and so it's a lot to sort through I think it's worth to start looking at we have to have something in place by February uh um there's a few parts of our baa that are not compliant with it so we definitely have to change that you know there's no owner occupancy uh and there's one section where we require a special permit which may or may not be legitimate so there are definitely pieces that will need to be updated and we could you know we can work on that and at the same time there may be some other parts that we have to update in terms of General uh design guidelines like massing or architecture uh but yeah I think there's a lot of questions what what will happen when you know when this actually um moves forward so you know it might be something we have to kind of update frequently or you know get questions to our attorney and then you know wait until as long as we can and then move quickly on it uh so you know say for instance if you have an Adu over a, square feet the state law only says 900 so if a community allows one that's bigger than than that you know some attorneys think that that actually doesn't meet the state definition and that's not actually an Adu that's allowed by right so a town would have to come up with a second definition of Adu according to the state law and so maybe the local one is called like your large Adu and then there's a state allowed Adu which is allowed by right so there's some ideas that a property that already has a larger Adu has to allow by right one that meets the state definition so essentially you'd have two adus on the prop property because the bigger one you know is bigger than what the state definition has and so you know questions like that are just I mean you know I don't know who's going to really come up with some guidance the state said they're hoping to in the you know by November so you know the uhlc so maybe they'll you know I expect things to be coming out in the next you know four to six weeks all right uh two hands Jesse first thanks I was just going to back up to comment on something El you mentioned about Dodson and flinker I don't know who else saw them out at the farmers market this past weekend but they had a big map and they there were just tons of really fun interactive conversations that I overheard and then I participating in as well seem like they're really getting a lot of input like they had this big map people were writing on it comments all kinds of stuff I thought it was a great activity and fun to see a lot of other people getting involved so hopefully the sessions will be more of that great Bruce that's good here um uh a question for you Nate uh you mentioned you were part of a um a zoom call I guess with 500 or so uh people um I'm curious was there any uh kind of focus about uh the the particular impact of this uh new law on college towns because it does seem that the uh freezing or or outlawing the requirement for owner occupancy um has a particular uh potentially adverse effect on towns like amamos was there was that uh a topic of conversation in that 500 Gathering or are we not yet really on the radar with that issue yeah that wasn't asked directly I know other communities that have a larger seasonal population too are worried about that in terms of you know short-term rentals or how these could be managed but it wasn't asked I will say that the we could try to find the link these there's two workshops uh and they are they were recorded and so uh I don't know if they're posted online yet but we could send a link out to the board but Bruce in terms of your question it hasn't been asked I know I know people in ammer have have been thinking you know could this could could ammer somehow have an exemption right because it really isn't you know it's you know every Community has to comply with this and so I think there are probably a number of communities that are wondering what is this mean yeah but you know it wasn't asked you know there really were no exceptions in the in the law you now um subcommittee Jesse I think it was we discussed whether we would invite Mindy do to uh or whether we could talk with her because we were curious about whether it was just an oversight and whether this as this law perhaps you know gets refined in subsequent sessions if that's what happens to laws that that would be a route that Amis might uh choose to take which is to have the uh have the legislature refine the law a little bit to lessen the consequences on the unintended consequences on on towns like am okay uh Jesse Yeah just to say that I did reach out to Min a weeks ago her Aid said she'd be happy to join us at some point I just sent our new schedule so if she is going to join us certainly let the rest of the board know in case anyone wants to come to that meeting as well okay um I am gonna backtrack to one thing Nate uh briefly mentioned that this was Chris's second to last meeting and that next time will be Chris's last meeting therefore uh so we should all get our speeches in order to of appreciation for Chris uh if if not for this meeting I assume we were all invited to the observation of her departure uh at the end of the month at Town Hall I think was it the 26th the 26th Thursday the 26th at two o'clock yeah so put that on your calendars all right if no one has anything else we are adjourned at 8:23 thank you thank you all and I'll see you see you in two weeks bye bye good night all right Pam okay Mr Marshall good night have a good night I'm trying to stop our recording yeah everything gets moved around stop recording sure you want to stop