##VIDEO ID:wbzvUPXhIxk## okay Mr Marshall you are the co-host of this meeting we are recording it is 6:35 we have a full board with us tonight and the attendees are coming I think you're good to go all right thank you Pam you're welcome welcome to the emmer planning board meeting of September 18th 2024 my name is Doug Marshall and as chair of the emmer planning board I am calling this meeting to order at 6:35 PM this meeting is being recorded and is available live streamed via Amis media minutes are being taken pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended by chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 this planning board meeting including public hearings will be conducted via remote means using the zoom platform the zoom meeting link is accessible on the meeting agenda posted on the town website's calendar listing for this meeting or go to the planning board web page and click on the most recent agenda where the zoom link is listed at the top of the page no in-person attendance of the public is permitted however every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the meeting in real time via technological means in the event we are unable to do so for reasons of hard economic hardship or despite best efforts we will post an audio or video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the town's website board members I will take a roll call when I call your name unmute yourself answer affirmatively and return to mute Bruce Cen I am here Fred Hartwell I am here Lawrence Kutz I am here Jesse major present uh I Doug Marshall I'm present Johanna Newman present and Karen winter present board members if technical issues arise we may need to pause to fix the problem and then continue the meeting if the discussion needs to pause it will be noted in the minutes please use the rais hand function to ask a question or make a comment and I will call on you to speak after speaking remember to remute yourself to the general public the general public comment item is reserved for public Co comment regarding items not on tonight's agenda Please be aware the board will not respond to comments during general public comment period public comment may also be heard at other times during the meeting when deemed appropriate by the planning board chair please indicate you wish to make a comment by clicking the raise hand button when public comment is solicited if you have joined the zoom meeting using a telephone please indicate you wish to make a comment by pressing star9 on your phone when called on please identify Yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when finished speaking residents can express their views for up to three minutes or at the discretion of the planning board chair if a speaker does not comply with these guidelines or exceeds their allotted time their participation may be disconnected from the meeting all right so time now is 6:38 I want to start uh with just a comment that's off of the uh agenda and just say welcome to Lawrence Kutz uh I can't remember whether it was May or June when I sat in interviews with you for uh both of us to be appointed to the planning board but uh it's great to finally have you on board and uh have a full compliment of people who are going to be with us for the next year so welcome thank you Doug it's it's really a pleasure to be here okay so the first it item on our published agenda is uh review and approval of minutes uh tonight we have minutes for September 4th and they were distributed in our packet uh board members are there any comments on these draft minutes Bruce um Jesse you might um check me on this but uh on page five uh uh uh item 10 X well X Roman will x uh number two the it reports on the housing subcommittee's deliberations and and it says that we were uh working to Define rental housing um there should be the word student in front of rental housing we were particularly we were uh we are calling we were calling it the student home we wanted to define the student home and I think the minute should reflect that rather than the more General Rental housing all right uh Jesse yeah I agree I was gonna point that out as well all right so Chris or Pam if you can add that word to the uh record got it Jesse your hand is it still up okay not a comment are there other comments on the minutes Bruce move to adopt the approve the minutes uh as uh amended all right uh Jesse you got your hand up next I'll second on that okay next time better luck next time Johanna all right we have a motion to adopt and a second uh last call for minute for comments anybody want to say anything else all right we will go through a roll call on the minutes same order Bruce I approve Fred I approve and then Jesse I approve I will approve uh Lawrence I approve very well Johanna I approve and Karen I approve all right thank you all all right next item now at 6:41 is public comment um at this time it's been our habit to read the names of the public uh attendees that we can that I can see uh on the screen uh this is predominantly to benefit the attendees so they know who else is in the room since they uh can't see that so at this point we have nine attendees and they are barry Roberts Chris Chamberland of Berkshire design Gail flood James Gruber from wayfinders Jesse Selman Jonathan salvan Philip Henry Rachel balanger Seth wilit wilit and Tom REI and I know that a number of those people are here for the hearings and discussion that's coming later so not very many members of the public however if any of you would like to make a comment at this time please raise your hand I will give you a few seconds to think about it and then we'll move on all right I do not see any hands raised or public comment all right we will move on to item three on the agenda which is a public Hearing in accordance with the provisions of Mass General Law chapter 40a this public hearing has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted and is being held for the purpose of providing the opportunity for interest interested citizens to be heard uh regarding spr 224-1 uh udrive Amity LLC University Drive at AMD Street this is continued from August 7th 2024 and uh I was supposed to read the time at the beginning of this so the time now is 644 I would guess that I started at 6:43 uh so the applicant is requesting a site plan review approval under Section 3.32 Five of the zoning bylaw to redevelop existing commercial space into an 85 unit residential any 85 residential unit and commercial space mixed use development including parking landscape lighting and storm water infrastructure uh the parcels are 13B 18 27 and 28 and 54 in the BL zoning District all right this is continued from August 7th when we had a very brief opening of the hearing at which point the applicant requested that this be postponed or Contin continued to a later date which we have done and that thus we are here tonight so uh welcome Tom Rey and Barry Roberts uh I if there's anybody else from your team you'd like to be have brought over um I will say at the outlet set that it's my understanding that you have not uh really entered into discussion with the Conservation Commission yet so we do not expect to close this here in tonight we expect to continue it to a later date once you've gotten some input from them so tonight we're hoping you can make your opening presentation of the project and we'll all hear it we'll have time for a few questions from the board and maybe from the public if any uh public want to comment or ask questions and then we will continue the hearing to a later date we do have a couple of uh substantive topics later on the agenda tonight so if we are able to get through this in 45 minutes or so that would be ideal welcome Tom thank you very much Mr chair for the record Tom Rey attorney with bacon Wilson uh out of ammer here on behalf of UD Drive Amity uh with me this evening Tom let me break uh I should have asked are there any board member disclosures if I didn't ask that already anybody have a disclosure they want to uh publicize okay all right I didn't think so so thank you Tom sure of course uh Pam if you could bring in Jonathan salvan and Bill Henry please sure and then uh maybe just a little off script but I don't know if this is the last time I'll be in front of Miss breast and if so I just wanted to thank her uh for all she's done for planning and development in in ammer uh we are lucky to have had you um it's a big hole to fill you've left the lasting Legacy and I hope you know how proud We Are to have had you in the role you're in so thank you very much thank you very much okay so sorry for the I just don't know if I'm gonna get to that at the end um okay so with me this evening Barry Roberts manager of you drive Amity uh Jonathan salvan principal over at C riddle Architects the the designer the architect on this project and then Phil Henry from civil Design Group who is the site designer here um by way of a little bit of context these folks this development team also developed University Drive South one University Drive South 70 University Drive 40 University Drive 180 fearing Street and then most recently the approval of 4555 South Pleasant Street so a little bit of a pedigree in town not even to speak to Mr Roberts and the pedigree he has with his projects uh in the Commonwealth in Western Massachusetts and specifically in in ammer um I think what what we'll do Mr chair I I hear you exactly I was going to make the same pitch that we know we're getting continued we're going to be in front of the the Conservation Commission we're finishing up the notice of intent um we have had Phil and I had a very productive discussions with Aon jock the conservation agent uh we are on the cusp of submitting that noi if it's not by Friday it'll be first of the week the plan that have in front of you in its latest iteration embodies those uh the the results of the discussions with Aaron uh and I'll get into a little bit more detail uh when we get into the the site plan but um we will be in front of them we also understand that there's a an overlay District being proposed for uh University Drive generally but this site particularly uh which would allow additional density here and we are very supportive of that um how that the results of that and whether or not it happens as as if it happens period if it happens as part of this while this is pending um we hope that it does in fact happen and that we'll either still be in process and be able to to Pivot we we've designed the site frankly uh which would be compliant with um that updated overlay couple of little tweaks but not nothing major uh and then we can decide in the future how to actually handle that whether we have approval or not so we we see this as you do as a a process and this is just the opening Salvo if you will so how we're here is the overlay District isn't in place yet but we do have a variance from the zoning board of appeals that we received earlier this year I want to say it was in in March I believe that allowed us additional density um this is a aggregate of four sites which totals 5.31 acres and I'll show it on the map in a moment about 231,000 square feet does variance allowed us to have up to 85 residential units uh to go up to 57 feet in height and to have up to five stories as I mentioned the overlay would allow a bit more density in the form of a sixth story uh in fact we do have designs for that already so hopefully we get to show you those at some point um what I think I'd like to do is just I think most folks are probably familiar with the site but I'm gonna Orient everyone with the site if you can see my screen you've got um University Drive um shown north south Amity Street East West Town of Hadley is on the left to the west and then downtown Amis is is to the right or the East you've got 422 am Street which is right here and you've got 2535 University Drive right here this lot this lot this this lot and this lot uh in the aggregate total that 5.31 Acres that are the subject parcel if you will we would go through and and request as a condition of approval that prior to the receipt of a building permit that the Lots be combined via a perimeter plan uh an anr plan is is certainly suitable for that um I'll zoom out just a little bit to give you a little bit more context which again I think everybody knows route n is to the South you've got you know the the Big Y CVS Plaza here you've got um 70 University Drive 40 University Drive uh the The Hanger here and you've got the University football stadium and then the university proper to the north to the east is uh downtown amrest I will show if you've seen the change of screen just a street view of what it looks like currently this is at the intersection of University Drive In in Amity Street North University Drive and University Drive this is um the existing I think when it was taken was probably Rafters it's been updated to be pleasantries which is a was approved as a a marijuana establishment but that has not been operational for quite some time um but you you'll see uh Here We There is a sidewalk in there are existing Street trees I think what I'll do now is I'm just going to show the overlay of what exists in what we're proposing so you get a sense of what that is so if you can see my screen here what we've got uh Amity street is to this is the North to the right University Drive is down here the blue underneath is existing so this is your existing 422 Amity Street where pleasantries and formerly Rafters existed and then this is 2535 University Drive uh as the chair mentioned we are proposing 85 total units over two buildings um there would be 259 beds in this iteration um we've got between uh 10,000 and 14,000 square feet of commercial space and and why it fluctuates is it depends whether we use any of the second floor spaces in the buildings for commercial or office space um we we'd like to have that option we don't know you know whether or not we'd actually utilize that space it's I think it would be based on tenancy and so the Northerly building would have 49 units the southernly building would have 36 units of those 85 units we would propose 12% affordable which results in about 10 units or in 10 units qualified on a subsidized housing inventory we would be proposing 186 parking spaces uh I believe 72 of those are covered spaces which I'll show you next and I'm sure Jonathan will talk about a little bit and then 114 are open air spaces you can see that what we're trying to do is really utilize the existing development this blue line as I said is existing and so you can see we are going a little bit beyond uh in a few areas I think it totals um existing impervious surface on site is about 94,000 Square ft we would be looking to have a proposed impervious area of about 103,000 Square F feet so it's a increase of about about 9,389 square feet which you know on a site this large I think the designers kudos to fill in in Jonathan uh for for you re utilizing what's existing um and if you were at any of the site visits we've held two of them you I think got a sense of that Redevelopment or or reutilization there's significant Wetlands on site but we're not disturbing any of the wetlands this is going to be a buffer zone only project um there's 96,000 square feet of existing buffer zone on site currently there's 60,000 Square ft being disturbed we are looking we are proposing to increase that disturbance by 9,000 square ft so kind of the same as the impervia surface is what the disturbance of the uh buffer zone is going to be I'll show you a landscape plan in a little bit um we are proposing 3.25 to one mitigation so for every square foot of additional buffer zone disturbance we're proposing three and a quar square feet of mitigation and and it's just for that excess for that additional uh Square footage I will show you the site plan and if at any point and I forgot to say it stop me ask questions I'm going to give you the high level view we've got uh Phil to answer any questions I'm going to put on my engineer's head and talk about as much as I can then I'm going to turn it over to Jonathan to talk about the architecture then we can come back to management somewhat high level because I think to a certain exent you all know Barry and he's going to be the one managing this project so I will share my it plan so you've got uh the existing overlay here one of the things I neglected to mention earlier is that there is in the works uh a mass Works grant that the town has applied for uh with support I think from UMass as well as the applicant we've written a letter of support I know that the under Secretary of of the executive office of Housing and livable communities is coming out in October and this this is going to be one of the stops that they're going to make uh to review this project and and hopefully to help in the acquisition of that mass Works grant that Grant would help to to place this roundabout uh in lie of the signalized intersection existing condition plan uh this was part of that overlay that you saw one of the things I didn't mention is and we'll show you this later but we're trying to utilize the existing detention Basin which exists here on the site um demolition plan uh the the idea at this point is to phase this project to to be in two phases where we take down strike that we put the exist we put the storm water in uh we put the sediment control measures in to ensure that we're not silting up the newly placed storm water infrastructure then we take down 422 build this North building um there has been an offer to existing tenants to if they want to relocate from the 2535 building to this new building they can obviously negotiating aside and then once this building that North building has been created to take down 2535 and to put that southernly building there so right now that it's contemplated to have a phased approach uh we would appreciate if that wasn't a condition just if something changed whether the tenants don't want to move or uh you know Barry in reflection on construction realizes it may be better more advantageous to construct all at once right now it's planned to be phased but we just wouldn't want that to be a condition uh of the approval here's the proposal as I mentioned you've got that North building you've got that south building uh you've got the roundabout proposed here the north building is tucked to the uh setback line uh you've got the parking behind as much as possible there's some parking in this area and I'll zoom in just a little bit so you can see uh there's some parking in this area here for the commercial tenants so that there's ease of accessibility uh this as Jonathan will show you is five stories this is four stories again four stories here five stories in the back this will be uh first floor of the covered parking same thing here first floor covered parking and then four stories of residential above four stories of residential above 186 parking spaces in total we're proposing a porous pavement back here in the sensitive uh buffer zone area as it's nearest to the wetlands we are proposing to close both existing curb cuts at the 422 site uh the existing curb cut it that's for the 2535 site technically is being pushed further west remaining full access we are asking for uh another curb cut full access here and then an exiton curb cut here I'll I'll pause to Just note that there is currently a restriction held by the town on University Drive where historically it was no more than I believe six curb Cuts could have existed in 2017 Spring Town meeting Barry went in front of town meeting and received overwhelming support for the relaxation of that restriction to allow him to you to have another curve cut into 70 University Drive the reason for that restriction all together was the earlier contemplation that University Drive would be what's called a limited access Highway and so the idea was to as it sounds limit access uh that didn't bear fruit and 116 was created and so that limited access Ness sort of became besal and so I've been talking with the assistant Town manager about whether we're going to go to the Town Council who is The Keeper of the ways to just allow these two access points or if the town wants to release that restriction altogether I know Miss brep has mentioned that in her development application report so that is an ongoing process as Miss breast notes you may need to Aline at some point um one way or the other we would appreciate support for the at least these um curb Cuts you'll see that like I said full access full access and this one over here is exit only it it serves two purposes one is uh site circulation around the entirety of this building particularly for fire purposes and also to allow a use here that might have a drive-thru our traffic engineer looked at it and went worst case scenario with a C shop it could be a bank or any other drive-thru use that that you could think of uh We've also pulled the buildings up I think they're 22 uh feet off of the property line in some areas we've got a six foot wide sidewalk here I know the the overlay district contemplates 10 which we would be able to achieve uh there's also an existing sidewalk that's um so the proposed sidewalk and the new sidewalk you know we're happy to take suggest this is somewhat mirror as the other side of University Drive where there are in some places two sidewalks um and in between those two sidewalks are those existing Street trees so whether it's combining them and removing those Street trees or leaving the six foot plus the existing or widening this to to 10 feet plus the existing we're happy to take feedback there what this also does is it eliminates that internal uh access way and so that that road that is parall to University Drive which was done because of the Restriction would go away and these buildings would be um ped up in that area this is the grading and drainage plan again we are uh keeping the drainage basin we're enlarging it um and this is really low impact development you've got the drain Lines within the parking lot you've got a proprietary receptor to meet uh storm water standards and then the discharge Point into the detention Basin you've got clean roof water which is being discharged into the detention basins as well they're not infiltration they're detention um and what we're doing is utilizing what's existing out there one of the things that Aon had asked for was for Phil the engineer to uh meet the NOAA 14 plus standards which is like it it's frankly not even um law at this point de is looking to implement the the NOA 14 plus as the standard as is the town through their new storm water regulations which haven't been to my knowledge uh effectuated yet we've designed it to those standards and this meets the standards so we are able to meet the storm water standard standards and reduce what we need to reduce uh on the site using the more I'll say aggressive standards of the NOA a 14 plus um utility plan I don't know that that folks will necessarily care about that we can get into the details I'm just going to skip down to the Landscaping plan because I think that's a material we've got that's buffer zone on site so here's the Landscaping plan you'll see that we've got mitigation proposed over here with a with a legend to how we're proposing the mitigation we've got essentially uh let's see 770 plus or minus new plantings um made up of trees shrubs perennials and then just um different Wetland buffer plantings Winterberry White Oak um Na Berry Etc so this is that that landscape plan that uh you didn't have the early iteration but you've you've got this and this is what we're going to be proposing to the Conservation Commission as well I am going to switch over to lighting just to bring you and I'll first show you C Riddle's plan and then what I can do is show you the photometric plan just so you can see the the number of fixtures um and the lumens that they kick off so here is the lighting plan and so what we've got here lighting plan there are and I think Miss freser priner development application report called it out you know there's there's four I'll call them different types of lighting um there's the uh the the canopy lighting you know these are all the A's A's A's A's A's and they're really at all of those indentations in the access points there are parking lot lights uh throughout the parking lot and along the public way the ones internal and I'll show you them in a minute are 18 feet proposed the ones uh along the right away are uh 12 feet proposed and then we've got some wall packs as well and then on the signage which we would accept the condition of approval to come back and we may even have it by the time we're ultimately approved uh we were proposing signage on this it proposed to be just a small Stone knee wall I'll call it and so let me show you the photometric plan all right so this is the photometric plan it's probably best if I do scroll in a little bit so you'll see at the property line no light bleed you've got a well illuminated entryways you've got well illuminated public ways wellum illuminated parking spaces so this is where you'll see you know B2 I'm actually I'm not going to take your time to go through the ex the fixtures if you want to take a look by all means take a look these are the taller ones I I believe they're doubles and then you've got the smaller shorter 12T uh along the the frontage here and then you see this is you know it's all Wetlands here um and we've got the the necessary lighting we haven't heard back from DPW yet if if they want additional lighting if the planning board wants additional lighting you know as you know we're trying to find that balance of providing enough without providing too much and then I'll just talk about traffic and then turn it over to Jonathan so we had uh stantech uh do a traffic impact memo uh somewhat sarily what they determined was that the proposed uses would increase traffic in the morning by 0.8% in that peak hour in the morning and then in the afternoon by I think it's 4.6% in the afternoon which is I I'll make a characterization relatively minimal um especially for this area and that's based upon the existing signalized intersection design everybody ising hopeful that uh the funds do come through for the roundabout and with that roundabout that traffic will flow U much better if any of I mean the folks that were there today at the site visit and I think folks who have been there before whether for site visit or otherwise uh there's a lot of people that use this as a cut through so that they can avoid the light hopefully that roundabout you know um not only with the the location of the building and closing those curb Cuts will prevent that but also the roundabout will allow the better flow of traffic I'll pause there I know I threw a lot at you uh hopefully somewhat comprehensively I'm happy to talk site traffic lighting Landscaping otherwise I can put it over and show the architecture for Jonathan and then we can come back and talk about management a little bit uh Tom given that we're predominantly gonna listen to you tonight uh and we'll have maybe a few questions and then we'll move on why don't you go ahead with Jonathan sounds great okay sorry too many screens find the mute button good evening um Tom's done a really great job hasn't really left me too much uh to discuss tonight but um you know we're starting here with a kind of an image um of the site from above um and in this image uh University Drive is Tom can you yeah there you go I'm trying to use my mouse and that's really not gonna do it um university drives kind of uh you know right in front of us on the page and Amity Street kind of turns around the corner there um and you know these as Tom said we've been continuing to work on this know these these images um don't have all the plantings that are in the planting plan yet but we do have updated ones that do um and it whether that's tonight or another night we can we can walk you through those uh but conceptually as as everyone kind of knows most of the development on the street right now um is set back from the street with parking in front um and we felt this was a great opportunity to kind of uh change that that Dynamic and and begin to create a little bit of a street facade and a street um wall and put the parking behind um and so as as Tom has discussed we've we've could line the street with the with our new buildings that start at Fourth stories um along University Drive and then step up at the back of the site and along Amity Street to five stories um maybe we go to the next slide there we go so these are some views you know at street level from a couple different angles up on the top uh left is you know assuming that roundabout gets built we're sort of standing in the middle of that roundabout about looking at the corner um with the uh the larger the north building kind of right in front of us and then distantly behind the street trees you can catch a bit of the the south building uh to the right the image that is a view not quite to the Hadley line but pretty close of looking uh back at the North building um with the south building um behind it and some of the parking and then the lower uh left we have the view of you from the north looking towards the south towards the university um where we can see the the south building uh from the street see how it steps back from from or steps up from four to five stories you can get a you can get a sense of that second curb cut coming in there um and then the last image on this sheet is enr parking area at the back of the site in kind of the southwest corner um you know seeing the the space we're able to create and and how you how much parking we're actually screening as as part of that um before we move to the next one Tom let me just quickly point out the different materials that that we've been thinking about using that we're looking at using some brick uh up to about the the the fourth floor level you both kind of combination of both a brick you know traditional brick tone and maybe a tan and then that gray material that we're using is kind of an accent in in several places that's that's envisioned as sort of a metal panel product and if we scroll down to the next one um I'll try not to repeat too much of what Tom's kind of talked about but I will talk a little bit about the covered parking um we've got uh two uh covered parking Bays one on each building uh you know they're double loaded about 60 feet wide internal um and you know the that's where some of the accessible parking will be there'll also be accessible on the the outside parking um but both of those uh parking Bays then lead you into a a Lobby and elevator core uh that will connect up to the residential floors above um and then again along Amity street we have uh the non residential uses whether those are retail or office or some sort of business use that's the sort of pink and and light blue tones and we can scroll up to some of our typical floors so Tom if you can kind of point out the the elevators if you can there's both both buildings it's kind of hard uh have an elevator core that will serve the floors um we have a mixture of units uh you know from some ones and twos uh all the way up to four bedrooms there I don't think we in the current version have any Studios I think we've we have moved away from those for the most part um and then scroll down just a little bit more you can see that we're kind of leaving oursel the option to have some second floor office space if if it makes um sense to be able to rent it out we also have other versions of this plan that are all residential from the the second floor up these will be what are called Podium buildings so the the upper part s will be uh likely to be wood frame construction but the first floor construction will be steel and concrete um as as is commonly done I'm sure people have seen being constructed here in town now let's move up to to one of the fours we begin to see this stepping back I think because really two and level two and three are pretty much the [Music] same there we go so this is now the the fifth floors you can see that we we really do substantially sort of set back from the street um and it does give us some opportunities to possibly have some units that have some small outdoor Terraces associated with them although most of the roof space will be uh taken up by mechanical equipment especially at the very top level I think I think maybe Jonathan maybe one thing to mention is just the size of the units you know the planning board as you're reviewing the plans the their size iable unit you look at the four bedrooms and they're 1500 to 1600 square feet um you know two bedrooms 1100 plus square feet so they're they're a good size um unit yeah if if you zoom in a little bit that that information is on these sheets if people are interested and so again um looking at combination of materials maybe up to two colors of brick um on the the portions of the facade that kind of step forward toward the street and then on the portions that kind of Step Back From the street uh we're thinking a sort of a metal panel siding and that's just that's the uh that's the lighting plan yeah and let me just show one more Jonathan because I think this is pretty yeah I don't know if you have the up the more upto-date Well I this one is what I was hoping to show is and if you want to describe where it is so this is one of the this is one of the fifth floor units um that would have a terrorist ass associated with it but um this is you know aesthetically what we're hoping to do when when it comes to the quality of the units um you know we're we're using a fairly large window area to provide a lot of natural light um and provide a nice modern um you know uh parking space okay um management just quickly so this is uh Barry Roberts he's going to be managing the property we've we've got your man we got the management plan simply if you have a problem you're going to call Barry um and then we've got the additional information as well I'm not going to again bore you with all of that uh information so we'll put a bow on it and say that's the presentation that we've got and obviously we're happy to answer any questions that you have we know we'll be back so if there are questions after this reach out to uh Pam Andor Chris to the extent that she's available and let us know all right thanks Tom and Jonathan um board members let's I guess uh in the interest of time why don't if if you want to ask or make any sort of comment why don't each of us get one one opportunity can I make one one last comment sure Jonathan if I might neither Tom or I pointed it out and I think most people have realized this but just kind of for the record as part of this we were doing away with that piece of roadway that that's currently kind of lines the front of of all these units or all these Pro properties okay all right so does anybody want to say anything this evening yeah let's put up our hands I've got four so far Karen you got here first and try to keep it fairly concise yes yes uh first of all it's very EXC in and it's going to be kind of a really initial it's going to set the tone for University uh drive and a lot of things that we want to happen one thing I want to plea is that we start thinking about dedicated bicycle paths if in the setback that you don't have bicycle paths that share the road but really have as you have all over bicycling countries make a a sidewalk that has you know part of it set off for bicycle so you really get bicycle traffic going to the university coasting that's if that could somehow be initiated with this and carried through that's I think something that I would plea that you would try to consider okay thanks Karen Tom I'm rather than have you respond to these things I think let's just use this as here are some ISS issues you need to think about as you prepare when you come back sounds great okay Johanna great thank you so much and thanks for the presentation Tom and Jonathan um all in all my reaction is that this is a big Improvement to existing conditions we are redeveloping this area without sacrificing hardly any open space and yet accomplishing a ton of policy goals that the town is looking to accomplish including adding a lot of housing including affordable units and the opportunity to use this private investment to leverage State money to improve that intersection um so I think there's a lot to love here um I think it's really thoughtful in terms of of the storm water and the plantings um and then my big question is so much of this is Paradigm shifting but that doesn't extend to parking um this is a location that's super close to the university it's right on the bike path I don't know the relationship to the bus stop so that's one question I have um and i' just love to hear you articulate why we need so much of this space committed to parking um and then I guess I have a second just like question or critique about the lighting um there's a new development that went in close to where I live in southeast emmer Center um and the lighting there I find to be Overkill every time I pass by at night I'm like there is nobody out here and this entire parking lot is illuminated and I don't know exactly where the town is with like its official dark sky design I think we're like pursuing dark sky designation I know we've adopted some dark sky standards but I would like you to think about the lighting plan really thoughtfully so that it's not Overkill without compromising Public Safety for ecological reasons thank you all right thanks Johanna Fred uh yeah just uh I I I agree that this is a huge step forward in terms of accomplishing the uh public policy objectives of the town uh that is absolutely the case uh just a a brief question at the Tom at the beginning of your presentation you mentioned the overlay and that you were looking at interfacing with that and looking possibly at a six story and I'm wondering if uh um you could give us just a a a thumbnail here of what that said six story would look like uh just a verbal thumbnail description of of how it would would uh be realized in this case I'm assuming you've had some conversations about that Tom do you want to comment briefly on that or do you want to wait until you come back briefly is probably the key word uh sure so I'll just um I've gotten image I can show what that additional story would do it would be five in the front six in the back so where you see four it would just be adding a story and in the back where you see five it would go up to six that would add 26 units and um 90 beds and if I can figure out how to I'm not gonna be able to do that uh we've got a image showing maybe that's not let me see if I can get it um I won't take any more of your time I'll bring it back next time with the with that sixth story okay all right thanks Fred Jesse thanks uh and thanks for the presentation um I won't go back over the positives that the other planning board members just highlighted because I totally agree I think there's a lot and I really appreciate how the design largely fits in with a lot of of things we've been talking about already um I definitely I was going to ask about the hopefully there'll be still a setback if you do go six floor sounds like there is um I really appreciate what Johan said about not minimally increasing the covered space that's fantastic I did want to reiterate what K brought up you know as I think you've seen in the overlay we're hoping to really maintain this walkway bike way wider uh setback to allow for foot traffic and bike traffic Rel whatever um so I would hope you could build that in and that also relates to the other main point I wanted to bring up which is about that extra curve cut that you were that you brought up as well I completely see the appeal of having a drive-thru establishment there I think it would be tremendously popular um but I have a hard time I'm no traffic expert I have a hard time imagining such a minimal impact on the traffic from 170 parking spaces and potentially drivethru business so I wonder if there's a way to engineer that onto am street instead of University Drive or if that second curve Cuts really necessary because again if the overlay happens or if it doesn't the Redevelopment of the whole strip there's just going to be more and more curb Cuts right and that will just prevent the walking biking potential on that side so that's all just comment um again overall I think it's great project looking forward to next discussions thanks okay Jesse and Bruce um I just wanted agree that I think this is a interesting exciting worthwhile and a positive example of what we were imagining could be done here uh so I think in my uh mind as we move forward I'll probably be interested in how this project uh can be uh a posit remain being and more and be more and more of a of an explicit example of what an overlay could be I I think it's an interesting situation where the project by virtue of having a a variance uh is um going to be built or is being built certainly being designed and is in development before the actual overlay so it's a it's a it's not exactly a cart leading a horse but it is a little bit backwards and I think we should uh um take advantage of that and I'll be thinking of how we can do that uh all parties but I'm very positive thank you okay thanks Bruce and uh Tom I'll just mention a few topics that came to mind uh first of all thank you uh and thanks Jonathan it is a nice design I'll reiterate I'll endorse all of the positive comments you've gotten um things I wondered about uh electric car chargers where is the dumpster and how is the trash being handled because I didn't see anything for as far as a dumpster Bay I guess I'd call it uh rooftop mechanical units I didn't see any in the renderings and they often don't show up in the renderings but I hope they will show up if they are are proposed and then um it'd be great to have a little more maybe a like a section about through the University Drive Frontage that show the curb show the public sidewalk show the street trees show your sidewalk and show the the building front because you know the overlay we talked a lot about a 10- foot sidewalk and um but we never I don't remember us being really clear at least I wasn't clear in my head about is that on the public side of the property line or is it on the private side and just how is that whole stretch going to be uh distributed um Karin mentioned a bike path obviously there's a bike path on the other side of the road um and I know when UMass built University Drive farther north there's a subst substantive bike path as part of the travel way on both sides of that section so I just think it'd be good for you to illustrate what condition are you proposing and how does that relate to the existing public condition but just a section so I'm clear so just a section I'm I'm I'm imagining Northerly like from the north looking souly section Northerly from yeah with the building at the left and the the the road at the right thank you we can do that the other thing Doug that wasn't in this or isn't in the submission so far as we've been working on 3D views kind of standing in that space say standing on our sidewalk looking the one I have on my screen is looking South you know it doesn't show yet that that public sidewalk um you know and and so it's it's I don't want to share it tonight but I think that might also be helpful is to be able to kind of see it from the experiential level as well okay great okay um so with that uh I guess I'll I'll offer public comments uh are there any members of the public who would like to comment uh please raise your hand all right and I will will mention that if this were going to be a more in-depth discussion I would have asked for board members who participated in the site visits to report but since we're not really getting that deep into it tonight I haven't done that uh but when when you come back I would like us to start with uh board member site observations okay so the time now is 7:32 um would any board member like to make a motion to continue um and Chris or Pam do you have suggestions for a date to which we might [Music] continue Chris well oh Pam and I could um maybe chime in together I think that it would be helpful to have some indication of what is going on with concom and so I would ask um Mr REI when are you planning to submit and when do you think you might have some kind of reaction from concom and maybe you would um the planning board would continue its public hearing till a time after the concom has it at least its first hearing so I would expect that we're submitting um if not Friday probably Monday Tuesday I mean we've got it's we're just pulling together the application we have everything it's just literally I signed it yesterday so uh I would expect to submit it next week that probably puts us on oh maybe I forget if concom let me see when do they meet usually are they second and fourth they're second and fourth Wednesdays of the month yeah they're opposite us right so maybe October 9th maybe the 23rd and I guess the only other factor to consider um is the zoning bylaw Amendment and so I'm going to back up and say I ideally this is in construction when the ground thaws next spring so 2025 that that would be ideal and so how about November 6th for this um continued public hearing because if the concom meeting might be either the 9th or the 23rd of October you'll have some sense of how the concom is feeling about this by yeah November 6th I think that'd be perfect okay okay and we're going to say at 7:05 right because do we expect to be having a later start time yeah I think we we ought to make that assumption okay so we're going to say 705 on November 6 okay in that case I'm going to call on Bruce um just for everybody's information I'll be in Australia at that time but I just check my world clock and the meeting would 7 so it would be it'll be 9: in the morning so I could join um uh so uh with that I will move continuation of the public hearing uh to November 6th at 7:05 p.m. all right thank you Jesse I'll second that okay board members any other comments about this topic or about the motion to continue the [Music] hearing all right I am not seeing anything and we'll go start at the end of the last name of the alphabet Karen I approve Johanna I uh Lawrence hi Jesse hi Fred I Bruce hi and I'm and I as well it's unanimous we are continued to November 6 at 7:05 PM Tom and Barry and Jonathan we'll see you in November thank you very much thank you very much thank you bye all right the time now is 7:36 um and we are about to start the next item on the agenda which is a public hearing for a project at amers college and I am gonna give Larry Lawrence Kutz the opportunity to make a brief statement before we get into it thank you Doug I uh uh spoke to the uh attorney of the day today at the ethics commission and um given that I'm an emmer College employee it was their recommendation that um I recuse myself from the discussion and vote on this issue so uh I'm going to drop off for a little while and we'll rejoin you all on the other end all right thank you L Lawrence I'll I'll I'll get that down soon enough Okay so so um in accordance with the provisions of Mass General Law chapter 40a this public hearing has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted and is being held for the purpose of providing the opportunity for interested citizens to be heard regarding spr [Music] a site plan review approval for accessibility improvements to the emmer college cattigan house under Section 3.33 0.0 of the zoning bylaw including a waiver request related to parking for additional waivers that may be needed parcel is on map 14 A-1 191 in the RG zoning District all right so do we have any board member disclosure other than Lawrence's uh recusal Bruce um I think I understand that my for of firm is involved not in the site design of this but in the building associated with it and the renovations within which have driven the need to do this work and since I noticed Jesse's in the audience I I probably should say that although that uh uh firm has my name on the door that's the only res residue of any association I have no business interest and uh I feel quite able to uh participate in this hearing without any conflict thank you all right thank you Bruce any other disclosures okay all right so uh let's see Pam we have brought over Chris chamber i' brought over Chris but Chris guide me if there's others sure um Jesse Silman Seth wilz and richel Banger okay I tried to bring Seth over before but he they may stay back but definitely Jess they're here in spirit at least okay okay I recognized Tim okay I'm gonna I'll give it one more try if he wants to come over all righty all right well welcome Chris Jesse and Rachel and Seth um Chris I should I assume you will be moderating for your team uh yes and unless any surprising questions come up I may be the only one you hear from but it's always good to have the team here okay well welcome and you can go on into your presentation great um so I am Chris Chamberland Berkshire Design Group a civil engineer on this project um Jesse Selman from cnh Architects is working on the architecture inside the building and Seth and Rachel who just joined on our um project managers for emmer college um so to just Orient us all um this is the main campus of ammer College close to downtown as you all know um we are looking at this property here 38 Woodside Avenue um this entire block is full of properties that are owned by amorist college but are not part of the educational District that's associated with campus it's part of a residential zoning district and so while the use of the building that we're going to be talking about now is an educational use that is by right um the site improvements are occurring in a residential Zone um and so thus uh triggering site plan review um and an and requesting an official approval from the planning board um this uh building is here if you've been down Woodside Avenue you may recognize it in all its 1960s architectural Glory um this was previously the center for religious and spiritual life which is actually still listed here on Google um although uh the college has uh removed that use to elsewhere in campus and replaced it with uh certain student service um uh portions of the College administration um and that uh use is already active um in it uh in order to support that use in this building uh there have been a number of interior modifications uh that are proposed and moving forward um and enough of that has happened that it's triggered uh a need to do full accessibility on the build uh in order to comply with modern codes in the existing condition um accessibility is inadequate really there is sort of a side entrance over here off of a driveway that brings you into an uh outdated lift uh that spills onto the main story of the building uh it is not compliant uh in full with current accessibility codes and even if it were given that this is going to be the student services building it's really inadequate for what this use is going to be um and so uh the proposed project which I'll bring up in just a moment uh is to improve accessibility to this building um and so just before I uh bring up the plans I just want to orient a couple of things so in the existing site we've got sort of this semicircular driveway um as well as um a main staircase as you can see the the main floor of this building is elevated quite a ways from the Street in addition we've got a more than 4% grade on the street from left to right in this photo um so there are as you can imagine some challenges with creating accessible um entry into this building um and so now flipping to the um uh site plan that was submitted uh this is the existing site that we were just looking at um and uh scrolling down the proposed site plan is here uh and really what we're proposing to is relatively limited um but what we um do want to do is uh first and formost create an accessible route and entry from a public way which complies with code into the um main floor of this building uh and uh the goal is to achieve that um at the front main entry which as you saw in that first photo is certainly not uh possible under existing conditions and so what uh this project would do is reconstruct the stairway to create a larger landing at first floor elevation and then provide a less than 5% sidewalk um along this route here to get to the public sidewalk which then checks off our accessibility requirement per code now since we're not proposing to create formal parking spaces here there's not a requirement for Ada parking but once again since this is the student services um uh Department uh theoretically every student on campus at some point in time is going to need to visit this building it would also be inappropriate to not provide that parking um and so another goal of this project is to create a full legal Ada accessible parking space um and then connect that via the public sidewalk um to that accessible route that I just described now we went through eight or 10 different ations of what we could do with the front of this building to try to do improvements Beyond simply just creating a a single um Ada space um all of them had their challenges um we actually did originally submit a different layout to this project which DPW disfavored uh because of potential conflicts between parking spaces and the sidewalk which sent us once again back to the drawing board to try to come up with additional um options and at the end of the today all we could come up with were options that created quite a lot of site work for very minimal benefit um and so the college then um uh sort of advanced this as the preferred option where we'll simply um repave uh and slightly reconstruct this existing um access to the front of the building um regrade enough so that we can have a very clear and you know legally sloping Ada access and some additional sidewalk um in order to make that connection there's an existing bike rack that we'll replace with new bike parking to match the bike racks that were put up at the Lum building which is a little bit behind here um and otherwise retain the site pretty much as is uh with the exception of a little bit of exterior lighting to light this path that I'll show in just a moment and so just to run down what all of those changes are real quick which I I mentioned a number of them striping and code signage for this accessible parking space new accessible sidewalk less than 5% rebuilt stairs uh with a larger Landing um in order to make this slope work here uh we are proposing a small uh 12 to 18 inch segmental block retaining wall really pretty minimal um but just enough so that we're not causing that slope to spill into the driveway um repaving of uh this semicircular driveway um repaving and to a very minor extent reconstruction of the public sidewalk um we are also adding uh proposing to add this non-accessible walkway which is really just a convenience path uh knowing that a number of students are going to come from central campus through the lium site down this driveway inevitably this would become a goat path um and some sometime in the future fa facilities would likely come along and want to pave it anyway um so we're going to formalize that path now with a hard surface um the site has an accessible route into the building so this is simply an additional route no different than this set of stairs right here U just as convenience for people who want to choose to use that um to access the building um and then um I'd also note that in the existing condition this semicircular driveway as Folks at the site visit this morning know is used quite informally um as parking for staff and visitors in this building uh we anticipate that the southern portion of this driveway uh may continue to be used informally that way uh when the driveway is empty this accessible space is uh reachable from two directions uh in the event that that that's continued to use uh this parking space is still accessible from the northern portion of this driveway uh with no problem there and the remaining space really is not viable for parking um and uh the the you know the college is going to um uh ensure that enforcement of blocking these sidewalks and things like that is taken care of so that this side is open um and I'll just note that you know some members of the board are probably already familiar with how the college handles parking but um I'll note that the informal parking in this driveway is not part of the college's inventory of parking spaces they have certain uh agreements understanding of the town as to how much parking they're going to have so the official count of parking spaces on campus doesn't change with this project um and uh it's important to understand that there is no one in the College Community from the president all the way down to a freshman who has any reserved parking space on campus all spaces are available to all uh College parking pass holders um and uh there are uh a number of employees and visitors to this building when there are parking spaces available nearby they get the uh they're lucky enough to use them and if not they need to park uh in other parking lots and spaces around campus and walk to the building which is pretty common um across campus uh most people are walking some distance from wherever they may be parking upon arrival um to the buildings that they're going to so this is really no different than the way that the the rest of Campus um operates um under uh under that uh regime um and then the other drawing I'll highlight we can come back to those others if there uh questions but there uh we did submit a lighting plan uh that the Architectural Group put together with a couple of new lighting fixtures um that are shielded and downward pointing uh to create a little more illumination on the landing and new walkway here there's an existing light uh uh street light on the pole here that um pretty well illuminates the street area um and and uh never mind the layout here this was a previous one of those failed iterations of potential parking on this site um but this lighting plan is really focused on new lighting for the walkway uh lighting for the existing turnaround seems adequate and so there's really nothing out on the street side um that's proposed um and then we just did include uh this may help illustrate for uh from another angle um the existing staircase here is to be replaced with a larger Landing um and then uh a staircase coming down and I guess uh just one last thing as this did come up in staff comments they um asked about the railing work um and so we provided a quick detail um of the handrail oh sorry that is the wrong one um we provided a detail of the handrail which I will bring up in just a moment um which is uh sort of a simplified uh strip down version of the same Julius Bloom handrail that's a campus standard um throughout all of the exterior um staircases that are going there so this is um really uh uh just a a stair like many of the other site stairs around campus uh visually and functionally um and so that is perhaps even more detail than than we need to review this project but uh happy to take any questions um or comments on any of that okay thanks Chris um so I think we had a site visit maybe this afternoon um are there any members of the board who would like to recap what you observed on your site visit did we have a okay K yeah I think it's very straightforward I think that they've done a very good job at making it accessible I mean it's not the whole thing isn't beautiful or anything like that it's very practical um and they've gone through every option and and I I think it's we should approve it okay okay [Music] um questions from the board Bruce um also just I was at the site visit as well but I was late so I didn't get the full benefit but uh I think that that uh Google Street View that Chris provided pretty much gives everybody the same amount of information that we got at the site visit so no one needs to feel uh disadvantaged because they weren't there it was a that image just showed everything and that was pretty much the sum total of the visit um the the uh the the the project certainly involves as Chris you have said the uh work on the public way on the sidewalk um is it the in I mean presumably there's there's a question now of whether the town does this work or whether the college does whether the college contract does this work is that uh is is is that work on the public way something that would be done separately by the town it seem like it would be kind of a bit of a nightmare to try and coordinate if it is is what's the what's the plan for that what what what are your constraints and approvals associated with whatever you do yeah um and so really we're just um repaving that uh existing sidewalk uh in the same location um certainly the the college is happy to do that I think uh similar to any other sort of development site um when you have a construction site and uh damage the sidewalk you come through at the end and replace it even though it is um part of the public sidewalk you so you would get uh you would have some approval from the town from the DPW imion associated with doing that yes and the original plan that I mentioned did go to DP PW um they were not happy with the layout um but they didn't identify any concerns with reconstructing the sidewalk um we I don't think unless Chris received any at the last minute I don't think we officially heard back from DPW on this latest plan um but we'd certainly be happy to have a a condition that you know any work in the right of way um be uh approved by them all right um Bruce I assume that's the end of your questions yes sorry I thought i' I just unmuted myself but I didn't take my hand Chris hi I just wanted to mention that at the last minute I sent Pam and Nate some potential conditions and a finding so when you get to that point you might want to refer to those I did not receive those so Nate I hope you have them perfect okay um Chris I guess I was had a couple of questions one was about um it seems like a lot of effort on the front of the building for one one Ada space which probably could be just as easily accommodated if not easil more easily at the south end of the building down on the lower level so I was just wondering is the part of the interior uh work does that include a new elevator or replacing the Antiquated lift so the uh and Jesse may be able to give a little bit more background on this but I'll I'll explain what I know so essentially right now the excess ible entrance such as it is comes into a Janitor's Closet in the basement and then a lift comes up into a different closet and Spills out onto the first floor it's really bad yeah um and so theoretically I suppose there may be an entire elevator uh that could be here but uh cnh worked with the building inspector and essentially the basement level is just going to be closed off to employees only um and the public facing if you will for the college community space is the first floor um and I believe access to the uh to the basement level is going to be restricted um theoretically the parking would work down here but it's just it's not an appropriate entrance for uh really what would be any member of the College Community that's going to uh that's going to regularly be accessing this building so uh that was a explored but it was really seen as a non-starter and requiring even more work than the site work that you're seeing okay so the existing Antiquated lift is either staying or just being removed but it's not being improved it would stay but it's not being improved okay right all right um all right um and then the second question I have concerns this convenience walk um my experience at another institution of higher education in town is that um we're not allowed to do those that if it that if we don't meet the ADA requirements for a walkway we don't build it and so I'm just puzzled why you think you can do this most of the side I'm sorry but most of the sidewalks that exist throughout town or not ad well I I know I know existing sidewalks are obviously grandfathered and sidewalks that are steeper than 5% are allowed next to as a as an adjunct to a roadway but on a you know an unimproved site I guess I'm not familiar with that so you well the college has a a tremendous we have a I will say we have an accessible network of Pathways of pedestrian Pathways but by by no means are all of the pathways on campus accessible that would be literally impossible so so our so our are is a is a walkway like this going to be signed as non-compliant so that nobody in a in a wheelchair starts down it and discovers they've got a problem we sign it the opposite way right we sign the accessible path we don't sign non-accessible paths we tell people where to go for the accessible path and and we're putting up signage all over campus over the next some of them exist now and they're mostly um a lot of those signs went through planning board and Town Council approval and they're coming on a campus over the next few months to direct people where accessible Pathways into buildings are again we we do the opposite of that we don't tell people this is not accessible we say the accessible path is this way uhhuh okay well your experience is quite different than mine and uh I guess I'll leave it at that Chris yeah I just wanted to mention that Nate Malloy has had extensive conversations with the Building Commissioner about this topic and maybe he has something to offer okay Nate he wouldn't allow it um because it's new work performed and it has to meet Ada and so the proposed condition is that all walkways site walkways me Ada and aab and he he would not you know approve this walkway right now and so whether or not it's you know part of the accessible route it's new work performed it's not a public sidewalk adjacent to the road that has that exception it's a new walkway and so you know that he he just won't allow it and so he doesn't think the he thinks the planning board should approve it with that condition that it meets Ada and aab and you know and then either uh they can discuss it after the fact or figure out how to build it um but as shown it is not um it wouldn't be compliant and so that's my understanding as well it's not you know if there's an existing pathway and it's out of Tolerance and you're going to rebuild it it needs to become comp and if it's a ramp it needs Landings and handrails and you know the proper slope not you know a 12% is incredibly steep yeah it does seem like uh you know at that at that slope you probably could could make it a ramp with the the the hand the handrails and landings um so Nate it sounds like one condition that we might might want to impose is that all sidewalks uh that are part of this project meet Ada and maab right I mean that's kind of implied but maybe explicitly uh would be important for that one walkway yeah I would request that that be um um her re that deferred a review by The Building Commissioner as opposed to stating that requirement directly I think that our team would want to uh have those same conversations and make sure we understand U my understanding has always been that an accessible route to a building is required by aab but not that all possible routes um be made accessible but that's not obviously th those conversations have been had offline and I don't think we need to have that in this forum um but if as long as we have some flexibility uh to defer to the Building Commissioner at least as opposed to just stating that that's going to be the required of this plan I think that we'd be fine with that condition well the Building Commissioner cautioned the planning board approving something that's out of compliance and out of Tolerance yeah I mean we have a difference of opinion on his interpretation and we have those often and I think we are requesting that we have that conversation directly with him right and and if you have the conversation he's sounds like he would have to be convinced that what you're doing is compliant with AA with that we do that maab so if we put that condition on it would still uh still leave you the flexibility to have your conversation with the inspector yeah and to be clear those are conversations we have all the time and we and we have many many situations where their initial interpretation is reversed so be it Bruce um I I I kind of agree that we shouldn't uh impose this condition um I don't know this the strong uh proposal but it seems to me that it's not our obligation to enforce the uh State uh building codes and Architectural access board codes that's uh that's the building commissioner's domain and I don't think by approving this particularly with the minutes that uh will be associated with this hearing that we need to condition it I think uh it would be better that we didn't that as both parties have said gives them room to negotiate or discuss or whatever and then depending on the outcome uh if we don't have a condition in there they wouldn't have to come back uh and modify whatever that condition might be depending on the outcome uh I don't think it reflects badly on us uh as I say but because the discussion is minuted I think it would be appropriate for us not to um but um I'm troubled that the Building Commissioner would think that it was necessary for the planning board to uh get involved in state regulations okay board members other comments no other comments oh Karen I agree with Bruce I think that we should give uh amers College the flexibility to have this conversation with the Building Commissioner um as they have had experience with it okay Nate sure I guess one other comment is that during the discussion it was mentioned that other cars may end up parking in the driveway and so you know it was it was a it was a question that staff had asked because you know it could very well be that this space becomes you know inaccessible it can't be reached and so you know if if car is end up parking here I mean you're saying oh well then someone could also Park come in here because there's no way a car could park here but you know car is often Park like this and so you know unless there's clear signage indicating that it remains open I just I would be concerned that you know cars will continue to you know use this eyebrow as we call it to park you know however you know the cars parked so Chris is there signage or anything that will indicate that this needs to be available as you know a drive up aisle and yeah so in this area in order to park here I think as was just drawn you'd have to block the sidewalk which would be parked illegally and the uh College police would would uh enforce that regardless um I don't think we would have an objection and Seth can correct me if I'm wrong we wouldn't have an objection to adding signage or potentially hatching striping in front of this area so that we can ensure that at all times there's at least one access to this parking space okay uh um let's try to remember to require that all right um Nate you you sounded like you had draft findings and conditions is that correct yes yeah okay um so given that it seems like well I haven't seen them so I don't know how long they are um I'm thinking maybe we should take a five minute break now we usually do that around 8:00 yeah I mean right now there's five conditions and the findings are as simple as that the board finds US meets the criteria of 114 we can take a break but they're not extensive findings or conditions okay all right so maybe Nate if you could bring them up let me is that visible for everyone yes yes and I was just um working on five so uh the first possible uh condition the project shall be built substantially in accordance with the plans submitted to the planning board and approved on today's date uh the shall be managed uh substantially in accordance with the management plan submitted with the application and approved by the board on uh the condition three is the secondary three- foot wide pathway between the front entrance and the driveway on the North side shall meet Ada and aab requirements so there was a discussion about removing this or modifying it to say that it would be discussed with the Building Commissioner I don't know where the board would want to go with that all right well we've heard from Bruce and Karen that they would support removing that um Jesse you have your hand up yeah I I agree I don't think it should be in there I think it should be Building Commissioner disc okay uh Johanna any comments from you on that um it sounds like at UMass that a it's a requirement in any other parking or any other sidewalk of this type in the town would it also be required um I feel like I need more information to know exactly which recommend whether just deferring to the Building Commissioner on this is the kind of yeah cleanest way to move forward I I think it probably is the cleanest way to move forward to defer to the to the commissioner um you know we would need to modify number one so that it's you know substantially as drawn with or without the secondary walkway as determined by The Building [Music] Commissioner [Music] um so but I don't think it's necessary to uh reference other other experiences in town I mean do we I mean to me if let's play this out say the Building Commissioner says oh it needs out of Tolerance it can't be built if they remove it to me it's a DI Minimus change to the plans but if we want to have that first the first condition allow that or some changes we could we could make that Doug that language change as you suggested okay um so I guess it sounds like we should remove that yep and then four all exterior lights shall be downcast and not shine onto adjacent properties Bruce I think Nate was going to say something but uh uh I I was suggest that we uh add that the U work in the public way uh receive approval from the DPW and I I like the idea of signage or striping to indicate that there's no parking on the Northern uh uh outfall of the semicircular driveway yeah so uh condition four now three would be you know as Doug mentioned the exterior lights the next one would be there shall be signage indicating that the handicap space and aisle remain available and we can modify that could it be signage or signage or striping because Chris mentioned the option of striping is a way of doing that and then work within the public way she'll be approved by Public Works before installation we say construction but okay okay I mean I see the work in the public way as um you know it's more than maintenance but it's really just replacing what's there and so when Public Works commented on the other other iterations I think the engineer also just said what you know if you repaved it or if it was considered almost like maintenance we'd be okay with it and so I mean that helped with you know the decision probably to keep what's there just given all the you know complexities of slope and um access requirements but we can still have them check you have an interesting typo in number six there n okay uh Fred yeah two things uh one is uh item five I after the word Isle I would add add the words R2 a r e two yes are to remain available and my major concern is with striking out item three because the way I read item three maybe I'm wrong I thought item three described that uh long Meandering ADA Compliant path that first went North then a little bit east and then South into the main entrance I thought that's what three was and three is uh aab con uh compliant am I am I missing that yeah if I sketch this quickly here's the road they were going to put a walkway here to the front of the building which is here this section is 5 feet this is 4 feet and then the three- foot path was this you know dog leg up to the driveway of the Lum so I think it's like the the three-foot uh identifier is calling out just kind of this one section of half well I which is not part of the accessible I'm still not confident that what's what's struck out here is what we want struck out I'm well if we take it out we won't have anything to be misleading people I mean I if I were writing this I'd leave three exactly the way it came in and I'd add another one that uh the that describes that rearward path and and sends that to the Building Commissioner so You' be in favor of that of of explicit yeah I'd leave it in and then I would with another item I would address the the the path that runs uh I guess Northeast uh that uh I I think I heard was a 10 or 12% grade uh that's a a nonstarter in terms of aab but it I don't think it's what's described in three well we don't really need uh a description of the ADA Compliant path in the conditions because it's basically the whole point of the project and the drawings show that it is compliant typically we don't we don't typically we don't have a condition like this at all because staff reviews it to make sure that it's compliant right we would just we'll make sure the slopes are are good and so you know in in a typical site plan once it gets to the building permit application the inspectors also look at it and if it's if it's something needs to be changed they can change and it can be di Minimus or it will come back to the planning board and so it's implied that typically all work shown on a site plan is going to have to be reviewed by the inspectors and be compliant and so you know this was suggested just because of that one steep part and you know I think it could be removed knowing that it will still be reviewed by The Building Commissioner and building inspectors and if it needs to then change the site plan significantly it could come back or as Doug mentioned we could change condition one so that it says you know substantially in accordance with the plans or you know and as discussed or approved by the Building Commissioner uh and then that to me that would allow that conversation to happen yeah I think uh FR I think you and actually I are in the minority on this um that we don't really need to call this out and I I don't think we need to call out explicitly that the compliant actual Ada route to the front door that's being proposed to be constructed needs to meet Ada and aab because it clearly shows on the drawings that that it does all right Fred I will take your silence as yeah perhaps the okay all right uh there were a number of other hands up I do any of you want to go ahead and speak Ken so as I understand it that um this path that's steep is just being built or or it's being paved because that is the way that the traffic is going to go and otherwise it's just going to be a a a dog path you know and look terrible so so that that is a question do you just let it be a dog path and then you have no responsibility because you have paved it or do you pave it but I think the Building Commissioner and Amis college should have that conversation yeah I think that's that's the way we're headed um Seth I was gonna just Echo Karen's comment that I we will of course have the conversation with the billing commissioner we would never propose to do something that's not compliant that said if people are going to walk the path anyway which they will then having paid saing there for people who are able to use it is generally going to be safer than not and so that was the whole purpose of the pathway I think if we go down this path and we do not convince Rob MOA otherwise we would just delete that portion of the path yep I I think I agree with you Jesse I would also suggest that you not start the precedent of needing to list all the laws that need to be followed for your projects I think that that would be a difficult path path pun intended for your group to follow thank you all right so at the moment I don't see any additional hands Nate at the moment we've got five conditions condition number three is struck um I assume the uh date of approval would be today uh the finding we have the one finding that the board finds that the project complies with the relevant criteria of section 11.24 of the bylaw so we probably need a motion to adopt the findings as drafted here or the conditions uh to adopt the finding as drafted and to close the public public hearing we could take ask if there comment public comment public comments yeah well we only have three members of the public so we have do any of you want to make a comment about this project I am not seeing any hands from the public and Bruce looks like you're the next hand yes I would move uh that the board Grant approval of uh spr 20254 the AMS College 3 Woodside Avenue um a project with the uh U findings as uh presented drafted and with the five conditions as presented drafted and to close the public hearing okay Johanna second the motion okay um I probably should have done this before Bruce's uh motion but I guess I just wanted to ask we did talk about altering condition number one does anybody want to to to do that or should we leave it just the way it is uh uh I rather liked your as the Mover I rather lik your suggestion Doug it seemed like it headed off a small rabbit okay [Music] um so I think the simplest phrasing I heard actually was from Nate something to the effect uh that we added um as approved on today's date or uh or as amended by the The Building Commissioner uh in subsequent um review review thank you does that seem appropriate Nate sure okay I think it also uh it also dignifies the conversation we've been having it's it's somewhow obliquely represented in the right in the conditions so yes friendly Amendment accepted thank you and um I forget who our second seconded person was Johanna it was me yeah I'm fine keeping my second as amended okay fine all right uh any further comments from the [Music] board all right so we have that motion and we will go through a roll call starting with with you Bruce I approve thank you Fred I approve all right Jesse hi okay thank you um Lawrence is recused Johanna I Karen i n and I as well six in favor one recusal uh Chris and team thank you for coming uh I'll be interested to know what the resolution is since I I live with this uh ambiguity in Ada daily and good luck great thank you thank you thank you all by all right time is 8:26 why don't we go ahead and take a f minute break try to get back shortly after 8:30 e e e e e e e e e okay please turn on your video as you return so we know you're back and Pam maybe we should bring over the wayfinders folks okay uh Chris should we wait for Nate to come back can't hear you Nate might want to give a um an intro okay he did he did when uh this appeared before the zoning board of appeals it was quite a good intro okay so we'll give him a couple of minutes jamy is Bruce part of your presentation team uh yes okay I'll bring him over as well okay great thank you you're welcome remarkably uh few public uh participants this evening for a quite a few uh things everybody's on watching the full moon or something something I don't know I just sent Nate a text to see if he wants to give an intro so maybe we wait one more minute I texted him too his phone's gonna go bing bing bing I think the full moon was last night with a partial eclipse it was very cool yeah it was too cloudy for us but anyway some people get days wrong you know I say like me the actual capacity of the full moon is supposed to be visible through tomorrow I believe it it's very cloudy up here on the hill tonight but last night it was stunning I mean you could have read a book outside it was so bright well I don't know if Nate is coming back or not okay so go ahead all right so uh I guess I'll I'll read what you guys have read given me to read for this introduction time is 8:35 we're resuming our meeting uh this is a pre presentation from and uh it's a presentation on a project that's before the Zoning Board of appro of approvals of appeals um this project came to us several months ago and the then board made made a whole lot of comments on this project and the applicant is back to show us where uh the design has gone and um I see with this intro I've delayed long enough for Nate to return we'd given up on you Nate um having a quick dinner okay so I will read the following presentation regarding a request for a comprehensive permit under General Law chapter 40b to construct a 31 unit mixed income rental housing development in a threeory development with on-site parking proposed at 31 Southeast street map 15a parcel 20 in the RVC Zone and a 47 unit mixed income rental housing in a three-story building with on-site parking at 70 belter Town Road uh that's map Parcels 15c 58 59 and 60 in the RN and FPC districts so Nate uh Chris thought maybe you wanted to do an intro of your own uh if that's so go ahead and otherwise we'll welcome James and Bruce yeah sure thanks everyone Nate Malloy in case there's any attendees or anyone listening the uh so you know this was this is a comprehensive permit a 40b application the hearing was already opened by the zba it's been continued till tomorrow night it will be continued probably for a number of of hearings and so this is coming to the planning board as part of the transmittal process and you know after this discussion you can make recommendations or provide comments to the zba as part of their review so it's also to show you what what's what's changed from a previous meeting but now it's actually officially an application so you know this is a time when you can provide comments or recommendations to the zoning Board in terms of the project you know the town's been working on this for a number of years um gosh it could be about seven or eight years to get affordable housing in in sammer so there there's the School site and then the town purchased the properties there was three properties on beler toown road uh for the specific purpose of affordable housing uh then working with the Housing Trust we developed a request for proposals wayfinders responded with a few other developers and they were chosen by the town because of their response and so we had criteria for a number of things in terms terms of affordability uh programmatic elements on the site uh you know marketing you know kind of more than just a normal marketing you know broader marketing to be more inclusive and so wayfinders was chosen and we've been working with them for a few years now to get to this point and so we're pretty excited about it and so each site is really is really has a lot happening right in terms of what the town wanted in terms of saving the East Street School number of units uh open space everything uh you know there wasn't a lot of of room for um say some other maybe amenity spaces or certain things that maybe other projects have uh because of what we wanted in terms of at least 45 affordable units to make the the financial piece work you know wayfinders came up with a really nice proposal uh and so you know as a comprehensive permit it means all local regulations both zoning and general bylaw regulations can be waved to have the plans built because uh you know the idea is that the need for affordable housing outweighs some those regulations uh and then they're also going through a notice of intent approval with the Conservation Commission because there's state regulations in place in terms of uh The belter toown Road Site and also um you know there's some Wetlands on East Street school but you know we're really happy with where it is right now in terms of the design site design and architecture you know all the plans they've done uh they' worked with the neighbors they've met with neighbors uh there hasn't been anything but positive feedback it's actually been pretty quiet at the zoning board um there's you know there's one minor comment about a design element from an abing neighbor that you know can be worked out it was pretty minor in my opinion and so we're pretty happy to have this move forward long you know kind of a broader picture is that it's taken a long time to get here and if this is approved it still has to apply for permitting uh I mean financing and then go through per you know building permit and it will still be another few years before it would be available as um you know a fully constructed building for occupancy and so you know the time line for something like this can be 8 to 10 years and so um you know it's just you know we're in the middle of it but it is you know a longer planning Horizon than some other private projects so I guess with that I can conclude unless there are specific questions about the 40b process okay thank you Nate welcome James and Bruce and show us where you're at G I try to share the screen here see I saw your screen briefly then it went away all right how about that can you all see my screen yep okay great great Perfect all right well thank you all um good evening my name is Jamie Gruber I'm a project manager at um at w ERS of the real estate Development Department I'd like to start out by thanking the town staff and the members of the board for scheduling this time for us to present the project and uh the changes that uh We've made in response to our last presentation um to the planning board in the spring um as Nate said we've had our first uh hearing with the zoning board of appeals for a comprehensive permit application that we submitted in um in July and as well as our first hearing with the Conservation Commission um both of those were in uh late August and I'm going to just give you a brief overview of the uh of the the project in general just to kind of refresh everyone's um you know memory of of of what it is and yeah so uh wayfinders is the largest nonprofit housing provider serving western Mass for over 50 years and uh our organization provides services in the housing Arena from homelessness through home ownership um way finders is a developer a property manager as well as a provider of housing related services to the broader Community um we because we develop the properties um with a commitment to owning and managing them long term we're invested in working with the communities that surround each site in terms of serving those who don't live in our Properties or housing centers in Springfield holyo and Northampton provide access to a a wide variety of programs including emergency rental assistance firsttime home bio educ ation or uh in Employment Services um wayfinders has completed over 60 rental development projects creating over 1,300 units and currently owns and manages over 800 rental units in Western Massachusetts across multiple sites primarily up and down the i91 corridor um here are a few of our developments they include Butternut farms and Olympia Oaks and ammer Northampton we have live 155 in the lumber yard on Pleasant Street as well as well as um Sergeant house on Bridge Street and Library Commons is one of our Holio developments um we we're wayfinders will serve as a developer and project sponsor and will manage the project once completed um our development team is um is we have shat Schwarz and Fenton with Ellen Fryman um who's a experience in both affordable housing and for 40b permits the narrowgate architecture of mission driven firm focused on affordable and Supportive Housing as well as Niche Engineers CBA Landscape Architects O'Reilly talbet at Oaken Nei General Contracting as our pre- construction manager and airtight energy Consulting to provide sustainability and passive house Consulting Services um as Nate mentioned the um this has been uh years in the making and it has a significant investment the town of amst and the ammer municipal affordable housing trust in including providing the town Land Town funds and a lot of town staff time all working collaboratively towards the goal to create more affordable housing um as n mentioned that the developments proposed on two town-owned Parcels um CPA funds were used to determine the feasibility of affordable at the former E Street school and in 2019 uh ammer toown Council voted to authorize the town manager to convey the property for um affordable housing and mixed income housing purposes at beler toown Road the town of ammer purchased the three lots in the spring of 2021 for community housing purposes under a CPA and with affordable housing trust funds and later combine the three Parcels formally 7276 and 80 beler Town Road into one parcel and in the fall of 2021 the town issued an RFP for inviting developers to submit a vision for affordable housing mixed income housing at the for Street school and um beler Town Road in the East Village Center area and um wayfinders was responded and selected as a preferred developer the town has also developed has supported the development by providing an additional uh million dollars in in CPA and arpa funds undertaking roadway and infrastructure improvements at belur toown Road funded with um Community Development block grant FR funds the up up grade infrastructure will include a crosswalk in the front of the proposed development site that will cross belter toown road to um better serve the bus stop in Colonial Village across the street um the town will also undertake a ecological restoration project to repair the culverts below the existing parking area at 31 Southeast Street and this work will include a stream channel and Wetland Restoration in the rear portion of the lot that's all um all wetlands and undevelopable undevelopable um so we're extremely grateful for the robust Town support that we've received this far and excited to be part of this development so um as I mentioned wayfinders was selected um as the preferred developer a Land Development agreement was entered into in the town giving us site control um as we work through the pre-development phase we've worked through a lot of the environmental um historical and and and land surveying that this developed vment will be funded by leveraging over $30 million in federal state and local sources primar primarily through low-income housing tax credits um we've we've completed phase one environmental site assessments hazardous material surveys Wetland and resource area delineations soil and geotechnical engineering studies and we've uh given notice to the Massachusetts historical commission and uh completed property boundaries surveys and title work as well as traffic studies the design work has progressed far beyond the conceptual stage to arrive at the current design um and we tried to uh you know engage the town and Community as we did that and we've had multiple meetings with Town staff um Town department heads including the fire department engineering department building department conservation agent and the planning staff we've also given um additional presentations to the am ammer historical commission um the previous planning board uh presentation the Amor Municipal affordable housing trust reached out to neighbors and abutters and um we helped to give some you know additional information session um so that we could get feedback and recommendations and um you know incorporate them into the design um the most notable comments that we did receive allowed us to make and that was from the planning board allowed us to make the significant changes to Belchertown Road the Aesthetics and um you know review uh many of the items that were discussed in that meeting um prior to us submitting the comp permit so just to remind you here's ammer Center um that 31 Southeast Street is um it's two sites um they're both located in the East Village uh Center and um you know they're there restaurants convenience stores and coffee shops along with other businesses and services it's um it's also just a short walk to downtown airers where there are many amenities and services um each site is conveniently located adjacent to a pvta bus stop um the Route 30 bus provides regular daily service between old Belchertown Road and puffton Village via ammer downtown common and UMass campus there's also a Valley Bike Share Hub at the intersection of College Street and um Belchertown Road just a few minute walk from each site and um as noted earlier the construction along beler Town Road includes that's that's occurring right now um includes the installation of a new crosswalk in front of the proposed development and this will create a direct path um to the to the bus stop right here and here is the the actual bus route so you have 31 Southeast Street and a bus stop right there and then 70 belter town roads it's going to be proposed right here with the bus stop right across the street um the zoning um the East Street sites in the um residential our VC Village Center residential zoning District the immediate neighborhood includes both single family multif family homes that are owner occupied tenant occupied additionally there's wats and farms nearby contributing to the residential density of the area um the neighbor Hood also features a variety of other property uses such as religious organization several small commercial Office Buildings that provide local business services and the Fort River Elementary School is also um across the street here uh the 70 beler Town Road site is located within the residential district RN uh neighborhood residence and the portion of the site that will remain undeveloped is located within the resource Protection District the flood prone cons consy Zone um this site is surrounded by a mix of single and multif family residences including Colonial Village um across the street with many amenities nearby such as a Bank auto repair shop convenience store and gas station here's the aerial map here's the the school and Southeast Street this is the front portion of the lot and then here's the 70 beler Town Road site here here's 31 Southeast Street we have the existing school that were um going to you know restore the exterior and replace all the windows and and and um as part of the project this is the existing School site the front portion that that'll be developed on the lot over here and this is the existing beler Town Road Site the building will be sighted along the road and out front with the parking in the rear of the building which will be back here and the building will be kind of up front and around the corner um there's two single family homes on there that'll be um removed as part of the project so the plans um they have Incorporated many features will provide uh much needed affordable housing while minimizing the effects on the environment surrounding community in order to maximize the housing provided we looked um to most efficiently use the buildable area at each site our plans include buildings that will provide barrier-free housing and elevator access to all floors and units the buildings will be designed and built with sustainability as a core goal and incorporate Energy Efficiency measures consistent consistent with passive house and Enterprise green communities the buildings will be all electric and will'll seek to install um solar arrays for on-site renewable energy our development will also have an on-site property manager or management um allowing for a meaningful presence so here's a 31 Southeast Street School it's going to create 31 um units with a a mix ranging from Studios to three bedrooms from a studio to three bedrooms um it'll include the Adaptive reuse of the existing School into six Apartments um also including a common laundry room and indoor bike storage the new construction Edition will create 25 units and we'll include an on-site office and a community room for residents to use the community room would be out in this front portion of the area and um there's a courtyard um in between the existing school is sort of set back and the portion that allowed for the construction on the site was up you know along the road here so we included a uh a courtyard there to preserve the um the view of the site s um at the at the planning board um the meeting um there was comments on the architecture the visibility of the historic School the connection to the street and also we were asked to kind of look at the you know if we could possibly add additional units as well as U um discussing the circulation of traffic in pedestrians um we responded to all of these um directly in the comments received by the board in our comprehensive perit application to the town but for the architecture we worked with the design team um to further refine the Aesthetics to include a more pronounced pedestrian entrance um from South East Street um and we uh removed a covered concrete area that was sort of like a front porch while um retaining an architectural roof element to break up the massing and it it allowed us to you know put some additional plantings and in sort of thing in in the front of the building um the area new construction um will be focused on the front of the site um and and that's mainly to preserve the wetlands um that are in the uh in the rear of the parcel see and then you know our our team looked at adding additional units um but the building was kept to two and three stories tall to keep um the overall scale of the building in line with the surrounding neighborhood uh context and the design includes elements such as you know articulated facade with bays and Dormers under composition of hip and Gable roofs uh to maintain this theme um wayfinders performed a parking study and determined the proposed parking is appropriate to meet the demands of the site you know based upon the parking data from other wayfinders properties the availability of onsite and on street parking and the ease of access to other modes of transportation um for pedestrian access and circulation the town uh we understand the town's studying Southeast Street and considering installing sidewalks and crosswalks to provide better access to the new school and um as I mentioned the Southeast Street the parking and the driveway will remain in a similar location um to the existing parking uh the addition will be along the road and um the plantings have been Incorporated in the front of the um in between the road and the in the building and and this is the the Wetland line is this so the existing the existing parking area and driveways back here and that um ecological restoration area will be within the wetlands area and I think the Conservation Commission or conservation agent in the town is um working on that now I'll switch to uh the Belchertown Road um this will be entirely new construction and as you can see if you remember in in direct response to the planning board comments our design team worked diligently to create a more elegant um design with aesthetic improvements to enhance the look and feel of the building um prior to us um issuing our comprehensive permit application I know um following that meeting we had we had sort of weekly meetings we met with Town staff we met with our Architects and Engineers to kind of you know really work through this and we wanted to get this um you know get this get this up to what the um you know the town the town really really liked and and and would um you know took those comments very seriously so you know we we added details and they included cladding material changes horizontal banding some Peak Dormers and Bay to create a more interesting facade um it encompasses both the traditional and modern elements uh while complementing each other in the harmony with the surrounding neighborhood um this the three-story building will create 47 units with a mix of units ranging from Studios to three bedrooms similar to the East Street School the elevator access um will be provided to all levels and will provide indoor bike storage laundry room and community room for the residents um in addition to a management office um additional planning comments from the planning board included a front setback distance the connection to the street and uh the investigation of adding additional units or or stories you know our design team assess different options to move the building further from the road you know at the suggestion of the planning board and found that moving the building would reduce the access and circulation um around the building and would reduce the Courtyard area in the rear of the building designated for kind of outdoor use by the residents and require the site improvements to be pushed closer to the Wetland area in in the rear of the site so um you know our team's confident that the building is being built to the passive house standards with super insulated walls and triple pane windows and provide a serene enir environment uh within the housing units um that will not be adversely impacted by vehicular traffic on belur Town Road although many residents are expected to enter the building from the the parking lot at the rear the covered um front entrance um you know welcomes pedestrians and bike riders approaching the building um the design team redesigned the walkways and the front to be more welcoming for this type of traffic and changes in materials and colors of the cover front entry um to further accentuate the entrance the design team also looked at um you know different options for variations in roof form facade articulation penetration organization and selective cladding variations the lap sighting board and batting architectural paneling all to help reduce the building scale um where the facing Route 9 the building's primary roof lines reach down to twostory height to match the surrounding um area and neighborhood um um keeping it and we also looked at adding some additional units but um this seemed to we kept it um as as it was originally and um just to keep with the height and everything um of the building so there's 47 units and um we did make a a slight adjustment after our initial um zoning board of appeals meeting and we added um six additional parking spaces in the rear and um just for some kind of overflow parking and and here's a site plan of that so here's belur Town Road across the front the the uh parking area in the rear will be accessed via the the driveway the um dumpsters will be screened with like a like a a wood um kind of Cedar type uh fence around that and um what we changed was is we had a very large drop off area and um Without Really impacting the impervious area kind of keeping it the same we decided to um reduce that and add some sort of overflow parking spaces here so we're were able to add six spaces kind of within the same amount um of you know original footprint which would um give us you know the potential to have a few different drop off um spaces and and as well as um you know we could have some overflow parking and the wetlands are in the rear of the site and there's the um the storm water basin in the in in the in the back as well and it's going to be um landscaped around along here to provide a a a buffer to the resource area so just to give you um income restrictions and affordable housing are all based on area mediate income levels or Ami um these these might be you might be familiar with these but these are a few examples of the income limits um for various household sizes um within the within that this area um So currently uh 60% area median income for a family of four in our Reon region is around 65,7 $700 so um which is which is right here and so the apartments will be rented to a mix of between 30 you know 30 or less or 50 or less 60 less 80% and then market rate is um unrestricted so here are just some rent tiers that are kind of calculated based on today's numbers as Nate said that this is you probably won't be in for construction for couple years so without you know residents moving in so these numbers may change but all of the rents will at wayfinders at this wayfinders property will are intended to include heating cooling electric and and uh hot water and here's the overall mix so 23 of the of the units and they'll be they'll be split up between one bedrooms and two bedrooms and three bedrooms um so we'll have 23 units at 30% Ami or less we'll have another seven units or 50% of Ami or less and then um 19 units at 60% Ami or less 80 80% units um we'll have 19 of those and then we'll have 10 market rate units at the Southeast Street site then here here how the income mixes follow at at each site individually and then right now we're in the permitting phase and um that started when our project eligibility application went into the executive office of the housing and livable communities um in the earlier this year and during that process is when it was presented to the town and we were able to give that presentation to the um planning board it was out for public comment the initial public comment um during this phase we also presented to the horse historic commission and hosted an independent online information session and uh yet we we incorporated a lot of that feedback into the design um and then we were issued our project eligibility letter in June which allowed us to put in our be eligible to put in our application for a comprehensive permit um through the zoning board of appeals um according to the project eligibility letter um from eohc is the findings included among other things that the proposed project appears generally eligible under the requirements of lowincome housing tax credit program the proposed housing design is appropriate for the sites and the proposed project appears financially feasible in the context of the ammer um housing market uh we anticipate the uh pering will run through the fall and wrap up in early winter and be fully per permanent prior to our submission of this year's State's funding round the typically occurs in January or February um due to the competitive funding round process we expect the financing to be complete leading the development into construction into 2027 so around this time um from there we expect an 18-month construction period wrapping up and being fully leased in 2028 and managed by our property management he said wayfinders professionally manages over 800 and affordable rental home units in uh communities across Western and central Massachusetts and we have culturally diverse proportal properties um that address the needs of specific demographics like older adults low-income families people with disabilities we offer a range of apartment options for sing from single room occupancy to four bedroomroom Apartments our property management and residential residential service teams work closely to create a positive and productive relationships with our residents the result of this collaboration is a genuine sense of community um through social activities workshops meetings and services um and uh the pering the sites are being permanently permed concurrently with the Conservation Commission due to the Wetland resources on each site and we'll work with both the um the commission and the zba throughout the permitting process so the town's zoning does not currently allow for the proposed density of the apartment buildings so a comprehensive permit is is sought in including um some waivers of U the development yeah and that concludes my presentation I'm happy to take any questions and Jam before we take questions I just want to um highlight one thing I think uh the members of the commission remember our last meeting and we received a lot of um very pointed uh comments especially about The belter toown Road Site um and Jamie said we've made those changes so I don't um know if people went back and looked at it but I I think it might be interesting to quickly show what we show you like three months ago compared to what we have today would you like me to just pop that on the screen for a second because it's really uh you know this was sort of a long presentation but there was one very dramatic uh Jimmy I'll I'll P let me my screen yeah Bruce I I appreciate your thinking of that that had gone through my head it has been several months and it's hard to remember exactly what we saw so I'm going to share now um so can people see this y yes so that's what you looked at a few months ago people remember that well I'm sure um we got a lot of comments uh I think we call them criticisms um and they were good comments and you know I'll I'll I'll I have no shame in saying you guys were right um and it was um really good to get that feedback because then we made a change and here can people see the the new design now yeah okay so there's one ah okay we don't have to look at that the changes here it's not just that we've sort of turned this sort of you know I'll say poorly executed modern version of something into something that a little bit more traditional but it's not purely traditional clearly um and uh but it fits into the context of of the Emer Community We Believe much better um it's the way that the mass is broken up with different um Design Elements and colors uh um roof pitches not just on the front but along the the driveway side of the building is not this one kind of undifferentiated Mass but we've broken that up and the other major change here is to the front entrance we received comments on both properties about the you know the how the front of the building and the entrance really address the street and uh you know we've you know created a more substantial front porch area and instead of having just a straight sidewalk coming out perpendicular from the building to the street we created this it's not a uh arched driveway but it's an arched walkway that really connects uh people walking down the street and the bus stop and the people across the street really Connect into the site and uh so that the front of the building really feels like it's it's um it's reaching out to the rest of the belter toown road um street so I just you know just thought it was worth really looking at the before and after and I just want to sort of thank the commission for its comments a few months ago because we think that this is also a much better project and um I'm hoping that you do too that's all well thank you Bruce okay I'm gonna stop sharing now okay if I stop sharing what's that can I stop sharing now sure sure although we may we may want to bring that rendering back depending on the comments we get but okay uh thank you for bring bringing the before up and uh uh your gracious uh acceptance of our comments I do remember that meeting was pretty pointed okay board members um are we all mollified are we silent tonight Karen yes so Kudos it's beautiful what you've done I'm very impressed and I'm grateful um it's an exciting project every every every phase of what you have explained I just kept thinking yes that sounds great that sounds really good so um yeah I'm I'm I'm very impressed I just wanted to again say I I like the fact that you said okay this is welcoming and people will be coming on bicycles and walking and so you have to plan for that and have some bicycle rack up place for the bicycle rack so that you they can really put their bicycle parket there and come in that way and just keep thinking of that we're transitioning more and more hopefully in the center of town and this is going to be also the center of town in close to elementary schools just finding a way to have kind of dedicated bicycle routes uh so that people with children feel safe going by bicycle and leaving their bicycle CLE somewhere so keep keep working on on that I guess yeah let me say it's not highly visible in this rendering or you're not looking at the rendering anymore but under that front sort of porch there is there are bicycle racks there's also bicycle racks in the rear of the building and then there's indoor bicycle parking I think there's one indoor bicycle uh uh indoor bicycle spot for every unit so I think we have about 48 indoor units or or bicycle parking spaces and we do a bike racks front and back so we absolutely amazing thank you yeah all right Bruce I saw thought I saw your hand um yes you did I I I this is I agree with Karen this is a really quite a substantial change particular the Bel toown Road I I looked at the uh the E Street project as well and I remember Doug you had some uh rather interesting observations there about making the uh the uh the school be more visible I'll be interested to hear what you think about the the the the change or the current version of that scheme um I'll focus on the belard toown road um scheme um I I think it's it's really heartening to think that uh that uh since you did provide us with the material first we looked at it both before the meeting and during the meeting we discussed it uh you heard us clearly uh and um Bruce you just mentioned that you thanked us for the thought and whatever uh conversation we had about it it it's un it's it's it's rare actually that I feel as a member of this board that we've actually made some noticeable contribution to the community is you it's a bit like you throw balls in the bushes and I hope that the dog finds them you know but in this case uh it's it's um it seems to be pretty clear that uh our time spent with you was very well spent and I appreciate that and and feel good on behalf of my colleagues here um so yes many of the things that you've mentioned seem to make so much more sense um I had a uh I think you balanced the front setback I I can see uh we did push I know I particularly was arguing for pushing the building back and so forth but it seems that you've you've uh gone through an exercise that uh recognizes the forces of the pushing the building forward from the back and the forces of the pushing the building back from the front and and and it seems that uh you've you've achieved an equilibrium a thoughtful equilibrium there and and I appreciate that eort but um the uh the better front is clearly more welcoming The Columns there you've got double columns always think that's a friendly thing to do um uh to it's a good way of making a a building look an entrance an entrance porch and so forth have a presence without it being too heavy so I like the way you did that um I note that the sidewalk is uh on on the uh on your side of the road you show it right on the road um and I also note that there's a sidewalk that is shown on the opposite side of the road and I see there's a pedestrian Crossing that runs so it looks as though uh the Bel the Belta toown Road has a has has a sidewalk on one side uh and that's uh and so your sidewalk is really not trying to I suppose uh be something that the future would expect that that sidewalk would run all the way up to Echo Hill or have you but uh it it did it did it did make me think I wonder whether in the future there would be two sidewalks one on either side of the road and and if that was the case uh um whether you might uh not have that concrete uh um sidewalk right on the on the curb that just seemed a little awkward and odd to me I would think that see that don't have anything there or have something that's pushed back a bit but I'll leave you to contemplate that because you clearly are good at contemplating things like this the only thing that as a as a as a retired and one-time architect I I look at the uh the Gable and Bays what do they call them the um the Gable Bay bump outs um they look like a a good opportunity for a bit of contrast you've got a contrast in tone I noticed with uh and and I wondered whether it's hard to tell from the rendering whether you had intended to have any contrast in texture but if you did and you thinking of claing or something along the main uh uh bulk of the of the facade um I wonder whether you might consider those bump outs having a smooth or or a different texture just to uh that would further soften the building I think if there was a a textural contrast between some parts of the building and others and those they will bay bump outs provide an excellent opportunity it seems to me to achieve that if you chose and the only other thing I would say and I realized that this is uh possibly um a little bit out of order but nonetheless I I I uh I wondered whether you had thought about those roof lines the the the the rakes of the of the of the Gable Bay bump outs and then you've got little Dormers next door and the and the roof line on the on the on the rate goes down and the Dormer is is is uh there like that and it seems that they want to join they want to marry and it seems to be uh that the building the the contractor might even want that it might be easier to do I'm not sure but I I wonder whether that would seem to simplify that because it's drawing the eyeball there it's a very busy uh uh collision between the the the bay the the eaves of the Dormers and the rake ends of the gables it seems that they want to uh enjoy a more harmonious relationship and I'll leave it at that thank you thank you very much for what you've done and and the whole damn thing you know with what you're providing for the town is laudable regardless of what it looks like all right thanks Bruce anybody else uh okay I'll say just a couple of things uh first thank you I think this is this is much better um I particularly think the Bel Town Road building has you improved a lot to the uh has improved a lot um the uh predominant change that I noticed in the rendering over at the school site was the addition of the two entrances on the street front um and so I I appreciated those and I think that does give the building a more neighborhood feel and uh it's more welcoming and all the good feelings that that can come from that um Bruce I was disappointed that the school is still behind the new building um but I I I can't even imagine all the constraints you guys are under with this kind of project I've never worked on one um so I guess you did the best you could and that's what you had to do with the site you had um but uh you know [Music] would have should have could have um the belter town site I also agree is much better um I I really like what you did with the what Bruce called The gabled Bump outs at the East End of the facade um the West End that that sort of end view uh still feels kind of plain to me I'd really like to see a a gabled bump out on that uh I'd actually like to see a symmetric uh roof line on that rather than the off you know the asymmetric roof line um I think that would be more palatable and feel less modern and sort of a non-traditional um and I think that's the kind of look that this town uh really enjoys uh they this town doesn't really appreciate modernism as much as some of us Architects do um uh I agree with Bruce about maybe trying to change the pattern or the the texture of The Gables uh shingling came to mind I know that's more labor intensive but maybe you can get prefabricated uh you know8 by 4 by eight sheets of shingles that you can apply uh as opposed to the clabber that's typical everywhere else or or try some vertical Bard and Baton pattern as opposed to the vertical um color you know the White and the gray just feels a little bit I don't know what whether it's plain or it's commercial or what but I hope the colors feel a little more a little richer or a little bit more uh inviting I don't know what what else to say um you answered my question about the bike racks in belter town I'm glad to that there's some under the under the porch um I just wondered about electric vehicle Chargers uh hopefully even people who need affordable housing will eventually be able to own a electric vehicle um I hope you're at least putting some conduit in the ground now um even if you're not putting in the Chargers and um I gu I felt like I either lost my concentration or you skipped over the the slide for the unit breakdown of of Belchertown Road I just wanted to know how many market rate units are at beler toown Road as opposed to the in comparison to the overall units in that uh building yeah and I can I can bring that slide back up and um there's actually I thought I heard 10 units at the Southeast Street were were market rate but I didn't hear how many were market rate at belter toown so at belter toown Road um here I'll just share my screen let's see sh go so are you able to see that yep okay so there aren't any okay yes yeah and and the um the the because the um properties were purchased for affordable housing with affordable housing trust funds um in through in CPA money through the town um it has a affordability restriction on it um that would limit it to I I believe it's it's either 80 or 100% Ami units so all of the units will be um considered affordable there at 80% um Ami will have an income restriction on them and um yeah okay sounds good thank you um I guess that's really all I had to say um I'll just final response on all the design comments obviously we listen you know we take all of your comments seriously um I won't respond to any of the individual comments but uh some of them are things we thought about like such as color you know those are not final colors but they're kind of indicative of the direction that we're heading um will'll you know and the issue about like the different differentiation of the textures you know we've that conversation has come up on our design team so we're aware of this we'll make changes I know Jamie's been taking notes uh where we can make changes that are you know will produce you know better design we'll make we won't be able to make all the changes uh of of the suggestions that we've heard but um you know it's a shared goal to make this look and feel and be as useful to everybody um as possible so thank you again for your comments tonight all right Chris I just wanted to say um well first of all it really was improved tremendously and I appreciate all the hard work that you went through but I wanted to comment on a detail which is that beler Town Road in terms of its sidewalks is a town project and the town is now working on it and there's 's not really anything that um wayfinders can do about that and I don't know for sure whether the sidewalk is right up against the curb but I suspect it is because there's not a lot of room to work with there so anyway I just wanted to say wayfinders doesn't have any control over the sidewalks on belur toown Road thank you and thanks for doing such a great job thank you yeah and I can just I do know at belr toown road that they are there is a proposed there is they widened it slightly to include room for a dedicated bike lane so the sidewalk got pushed back a little bit um to the property line in order to make room for that um bike lane along the along Route nine there great now Karen can bicycle to belter town okay so uh you know our comments this evening were pretty modest um I'm not even sure we do we need a a letter of recommendation to zba or or not I think I think we can summarize the conversation and provide you know a summary to the zoning board I think that's fine you know there wasn't any to me there wasn't right anything that uh needed a kind of a formal motion or or discussion so okay yeah well you can just lift whatever shows up in the minutes and put it in a letter okay well thank you James and Bruce and good luck with this really long process yep we really appreciate your support and glad to be back here thank you yeah very much thank you very much okay time now is 9:28 and the next item on our agenda is plan Board elections and reorganization um Lawrence you have we waited we waited for you to arrive so that we could all be here to talk about election of our officers which is a chair a vice chair and I'm blanking on the third one somebody clerk clerk CL there we go the the clerk who typically doesn't have to do any minutes um but if you know they're third in line in case the chair and the vice chair are not able to uh chair the meeting um we have had instances where we needed to help staff produce minutes um and at least at that point we distributed that load rather than just dumping it all on the clerk um so those are three officers offices and then we need to talk about the representatives from the planning board to the uh subcommittees that we are we we participate in outside of planning board so um I guess we ought to just start uh I saw a hand a minute ago I think it was from you Lawrence um but maybe not I did I didn't mean to raise my hand I'm sorry okay all right um so why don't we start and take nominations for chair does anybody want to do it does anybody want someone else to do it Johanna I nominate that Doug Marshall continue as the chair of the emmer planning board okay uh Bruce I so second you so second okay are there other candidates who want to come forward or want to be pushed forward no okay I suppose we ought to officially vote these things Chris or Nate have to have to roll run through the roll call again Le yes all right so for Doug Marshall for chair for another year um a yes vote is in favor and then no votes against Bruce yes br I Jesse yes and thank you uh Lawrence yes Johanna hi Karen yes and I will abstain on that one but it's clear I am elected to another year of this immensely powerful position all right um next we need a vice chair and uh obviously I think the most important role of that is when I get sick or hit by a bus or whatever you guys are you're ready to jump in and be chair so Johanna you have been our chair our vice chair um would you be willing to be another to be a vice chair again I would all right so I will nominate Johanna for vice chair are there other nominations or seconds of that nomination Jesse a second's nomination all right anybody else want to be part of the mix and make it a contested vote all right we'll run through the roll call again starting this time with Karen Karen yes thank you uh Johanna willstein all right Lawrence yes and Jesse yes Fred yes and Bruce yep and I'm a yes too so another six in favor one exstension and last our Clerk and I forgive me whoever's been clerk who has been clerk Mr cam Mr cam ah yes I had no idea that's why that reminds me that's why we had you chair one of the meetings in in a yeah okay all right does anybody else want to be Clerk or does is Bruce are you willing to continue all right it's obviously weighed heavily on your mind okay so uh going through the roll call again Bruce excuse me are you nominating Bruce yes I'll nominate Bruce all right and then someone has to Second and I I'll second that all right Jesse Jesse can second all right this time we'll start with Fred hi and Jesse hi and Lawrence hi and Johanna hi and Karen hi I'm an i and Bruce you know what I'm I'm in spite of nominating myself I'm going to abstain all right well you you've got the job anyway all right six in favor one abstention we have officers for our next year all right um now we need to talk about the the board and liaison committees that we serve on so we've got pioner Valley Planning Commission this community preservation act committee the design review board and uh I guess that's those are the primary three um why don't we start with pvpc Bruce that's been you I'm I'm happy to continue and uh and perhaps even especially because the next meeting is the is actually a face-to-face meeting at the South Hamley boat house or something like that I I this is a group of about 40 people it's uh the most uh weird uh Zoom meeting I ever participate in with alternates and Commissioners and uh various others so I'm really looking forward to seeing how tall these people are or how short they are so if you if you're all willing I'll continue okay is anybody else really itching to get to know the pvpc doesn't sound like it okay um Chris do we need formal nominations and votes for these as well yeah okay um in the interest of time I'll nominate Bruce for the pvpc liaison Jesse raised two fingers to indicate seconded all right right um I'm going to see if I can get away with simplifying this does anybody object to this nomination as no objections so Chris that's uh unanimous unless Bruce wants to abstain we could say by consensus by consensus that sounds yes do it that way that's easier sure um CPAC is the next committee and I did that last year sort of under duress because nobody else volunteered um I don't really want to do it again this year so um I I think we talked a little bit about that last meeting Lawrence I don't know if you listened to our last meeting um that commit that committee it's one of the more positive committees because they just give away money um and but they're they're they the they the period of the calendar when they have most intense meeting is through the fall sort of October November and a little bit into December so I'm hoping somebody else would like to do that nobody's nobody's jumping up huh and I was hoping that one of our either our new member or one of the other members would do that uh well why don't we skip that for the moment um drb has been kin I believe right and how are you feeling about that and I like it and I'm getting to know it and I I would like to continue doing that okay anybody else uh Bruce your hand went up you're you're muted I nominate Karen all right uh I guess I'll second anyone object to car and doing this okay all right so we'll go back to CPAC anybody want to do that or willing to do that Chris do we need to do we have to nominate someone Nate would know he goes to their meetings it'd be a vacancy um you know it's it would be important I think if it didn't happen tonight the proposals are due September at the end of the month and as Doug mentioned they you know it's a short window but they meet uh fairly often beginning in October you know they probably have eight meetings between October one and end of December uh they review proposals they hold hearings and they recommend you know the funding allocation that then goes to uh the finance committee and the Town Council for approval so what the CPA committee does is it looks at the proposals coming in for open space Recreation housing and historic preservation they hear presentations they ask questions and then they recommend those proposals uh yeah I mean I I think if if if not at this meeting then I think the next planning board meeting it would probably be asked as from the town manager's office if there would be a fending board member they try to like to have you know every you know it's a it's a CPA committee is made up mostly of representatives from other boards and committees and then a few at llarge members and so they really like to have a full compliment especially at the beginning of uh the review cycle so we could we could wait I mean there's still some time but you know if you have any questions you could reach out to Doug he served you could ask me um you know time commitments and other things but you know if there's anything there Doug I'd be i' oh sorry well Johanna has her hand up I don't know Lawrence if go Lawrence why don't you go ahead and then I can chime in well I was going to say if if nobody steps forward I'd be happy to have a conversation Doug with you and Nate about it just I I want to know um what the commitments are since I'm already sort of uh approaching limit having a having a young toddler in the house um uh in terms of time I can offer but it it sounds like interesting work and something I might consider but um I'd want to be pretty clear about what the demands are okay well uh Johan and then the thing that I was going to say I think this would be an incredibly rewarding board to serve on and I think these grants really do make a big impact on the quality of the town and then and I I feel like Doug you took the hit last year and you already do a lot of service on this board and so I feel like if others can pick up that lift that would be awesome um I just agreed to coach the Middle School ultimate program through the beginning of November which is also just a massive time commitment so given that that like Peak demand on that is basically I think overlaps with this um I think I could be like you know an In Absentia member through October which I recognizes kind of when most of the work happens but then afterwards you know in November and December could help Usher it through but I I think it would be better to have somebody who's you know committed through the full Arc yeah I I I found last year first of all by us waiting until September to to uh to make these nominations we sometimes I I missed a couple of meetings at the beginning so I kind of came in a little bit behind the curve um and then they did meet mostly every week and usually on Thursday evenings um I think starting at 7 and usually not more than an hour and a half usually I think uh there was some reading outside of the meeting uh because you you you get these applications for funding and you got to read the application um most many of the applications were from town entities whether it's public works or conservation wants to build a new hiking trail or whatever some of them were nonprofits uh some of it's historical so I Lawrence I can talk to you more later but um you know it seemed like a a good thing to do it's money that needs to that really needs to get doled out um but um I I don't feel like I should do it again this year yeah man I will say that uh proposals are due at the end of the month and then there's a an internal staff review they get um sent to the committee the CPA committee members the committee members need to review that individually and send questions back to staff and then staff sends those to the applicants and then the committee will meet uh starting usually in like mid to late October so usually there's maybe one meeting in October and then I agree with Doug that's usually you know probably every week uh through November and then a few weeks into December so uh you know like one or two meetings in October four in November and three in December that's you know they and over those course of those meetings they they ask applicants for presentations there's a public hearing and then they discuss you know like I said the funding amounts and what you know lately they're getting requested uh more proposals come in in terms of dollar amount than they can fund so they have to make decisions about you know what is the you know how much do they fund each project or do they fund all projects and so yeah I mean it's becoming I think more of a sought-after source it does fund a lot of good projects around town they all need to have that come some public benefit in their respective category so you know historic preservation is you know can be used for private projects as well as public and it goes for all the rest of those categories so yeah I mean I think it's a feel good thing it it does just take a lot of work yeah I'm I'm I'm certainly open to considering it but I I I can't really commit to it tonight so um I would would love to have a followup conversation um with you all if that's okay yep all right all right so we will will postpone that nomination till next time [Music] um why don't we go ahead further through the agenda next item time now is 946 Chris and or Nate or Pam old business topics not reasonably anticipated 48 hours in advance I don't have anything okay um new business not reasonably anticipated nothing okay form a anr subdivision applications No not tonight but we will next time okay upcoming zba applications um I actually talked with uh Jinta and she said has things out there on the wings nothing has been submitted so they continue with their uh public hearing for the wayfinders okay upcoming SP spr Su [Music] applications Pam knows more about it than I do maybe Pam should report well uh we have received a site plan review application for 45 and 55 South Pleasant Street um the projects that Barry Roberts is doing with um that incorporates the Hastings building um they're coming back before the board they have some changes they would like to make to conditions um and then they are uh they have reduced the number of electrical meters and they have slightly relocated the Transformers so that is expected to come to the board on October 16th okay which I think is our next meeting right yes okay um all right now planning board committee and liaison reports uh I guess looks like we start with Jesse housing subcommittee any anything new from you guys we have we haven't met since the last meeting meet next week okay all right I will chime in we were meeting with staff to talk about um you know a few things the committee uh discussed and Jesse I um we sent around emails to schedule time I I I think I was on I dropped the ball there um so I'll just follow up everyone was available at some you know it's hard to get a time when four people can meet together but I think we had some so I'll just get that going the next week and a half okay great thanks um Bruce pvpc to report all right uh I don't have anything for CPAC uh kin drb no we meet next week okay and either Chris or Nate for CRC Mr you're muted yes um the CRC is still working on the solar bylaw um Stephanie chiarello is going to take over most of that work but I'll be helping her a little bit um and I don't know if they did have it on their agenda for this coming Tuesday but I don't know if we'll actually be able to talk talk about it then because well that's all uh and sort of on the same similar topic uh am I correct that the over the draft overlay zoning proposal has gone to Town Council and will be on one of their October meeting agendas yes it's gone to Town Council and it may come to the Town Council on the um 23rd of September which would be this coming Monday um they have to make that decision if it's not on the 23rd it would be on October 7th okay and then and then they assuming they vote it to refer it it will go to CRC and to us for hearings is that correct yes that's right yep okay so that could conceivably be in October right yes okay great um report of chair time now is 9:50 um the one thing I was going to bring up that I mentioned earlier uh is whether we ought to try to meet in person a little bit more than we have um about a year ago when we were working on the sort of the housing overlay early conversations we met as an additional meeting uh for three or four times once a month through the fall and I thought it was productive to get in the same room with you all and um I think in Bruce's words see how tall you are um so um you know I wondered we we don't have to decide anything tonight but I was going to just suggest well maybe we should have one of our meetings each month in person for you know starting in January for six months or something like that just to see how it works um because it's a change not only for us but it's you know the applicants have to show up and they're they're out of the habit of driving into town just like we are um so Jesse I was just wondering so I haven't been on the board for in person very much at all how do the presentations work in person like that's what really nice about Zoom right we can see the slides whatever so how did that work before was it printed copies was it on the screen what it was on screen mostly I mean I would I mean so personally I I wouldn't recommend it um I think the housing discussions in person as an extra meeting were helpful but to go back in person the recommendation actually is to stay hybrid or to stay remote um I think having applicants come into town hall is going to make it really difficult it'll take more staff time we'll have to set it up as a hybrid meeting and I actually think the presentations will be less visible and less legible for the planning board the public and those watching at home and so to me I I'm not sure that I don't see a benefit going to in person to have public hearings or those types of things so like what we did tonight you can annotate on a screen with zoom we can zoom in we can make things really clear and visible and so I actually would you know personally and then also for staff time uh it's a hardship for me right I mean so work life balance I coach year round uh you know and so I can make it on Zoom to be in person means I have to really rearrange my schedule and I find that those meetings are not as necessarily effective as or any more effective actually probably less effective than zoom and so I'm I'm a big proponent of remote meetings I think in person you know is really helpful when we're talking about the zoning amendment in a specific topic but not bringing applicants in uh to give presentations okay any any other opinions or comments uh Karen and then Chris um I agree it's a hardship for staff and it's kind of nice to be able to come remotely when you're all over the place but it would be really nice to to schedule maybe not once a month but sometimes it's good to to get together and maybe it would be for a topic to if we're going to do the the um resoning of University Drive or or or just some issue that we care about I still care about um communicating better with you mths on housing and things like that that we have at some point every two months or three months a time when we can get together it it just builds a um an understanding between us it's just it's a valuable thing and and and we should do it rarely because of the commitment of staff and everyone else but we should somehow try to figure a way that we can get together in person all right thanks Karen Chris I just wanted to say that I think my leaving um my retiring is going to put an extra strain on the staff who's here um we're hoping to hire another planner soon but um she'll be taking up the slack with work that um you know that we've had a hard time getting done even with the staff that we have so perhaps if you are contemplating this um in person meeting you wait um for a while maybe wait until January at least to try it because I think it's going to be a hard transition with um with my departure and other transitions so that's just my two cents thank you all right good to hear um Johanna I think there's real value to being in person um I found that when we were hammering out the geography which place to go deeper on resoning on doing I couldn't imagine doing that process and having those conversations on Zoom whereas I think it really worked for us to have the whiteboards up around the room and have the big maps and um so I feel like for public hearings Zoom works very very well and we get great efficiencies on that I think for the like creative process of developing policy that's really great to do in person and I feel like when we were going through that process we actually added meetings um yes yes I and then I'm just trying to figure out like right now we don't have one of those projects you know like the I feel like I'm not sure maybe there's an appetite to like say all right great we've like moved forward uh overlay district for University Drive and now that's going to go through its process so let's actually bite off the next thing um if we were ready to bite off that next thing let's say starting in January or February I'd be excited to have that conversation but I could also understand if people want to wait I don't know if that's helpful at all Doug but those yeah yeah certainly uh Bruce I basically agree with Karen and with uh Johan and also with Nate interesting because I was fully supportive of uh when you first said what you said I thought yes that would be great and I found that I had my mind uh pretty solidly turned around by what Nate said and then uh the current's uh idea seem to be good there's a place for this uh and we should and I think dou chair given your uh interest in this I think we should uh uh charge you and ourselves but you particularly with looking out for opportunities to do this uh and one final comment that it seems January in the middle of winter with snow and ice and everything seems to be is is when Zoom is really appealing so that's just a thought okay all right well uh thank you all for those comments and uh I guess I'll think about that and talk to and Nate and Chris as much as she's around and we'll see where where this goes uh regarding Johanna your comment about uh whether we're ready to bite something else off um you know I kind of assumed we'd start talking about Bel toown Road and the lower end of College Street um that was sort of candidate number two when we were talking about where we might uh up Zone or think about you know changing things so uh you know and maybe to avoid well I don't think we can do anything this fall it feels like that that that's sort of uh not going to work and particularly hearing from Chris that that staff needs to go through the transition period and and get their bearings um I think we probably ought to wait till next year but uh think about it for the early spring okay uh that's all I had Chris or Nate report of Staff or Pam well I just like to say I've enjoyed working with you tremendously and I'll miss you all I hope to see you around town and I'll be watching planning board meetings um probably to my husband's distress but um when is your retirement party um their party is next Thursday at 2 o'clock in the town Ro so you're all welcome to come and it would be great to see you there and I'll probably be crying at that party but anyway it's been a great job and uh thank you very much for um making it so pleasant are you really not going to be in town hall if we come looking for you after that date well I'm trying to make a deal with Dave zc to let me come back part-time um and I think he's amenable to that so we're working it out but it would probably be 20 hours a week or something like that but I really enjoy this work I just can't do it at the level and intensity that I've been doing it because I'm getting old so anyway it's been wonderful so thank you thank you all for your part in it yeah thanks Chris I was gonna just say a few things Johanna um or what what can be involved in there's the housing production plan so the Consultants have done some Outreach meetings they're hoping to do more this fall uh you know some the previous plan looked at did look at Route n and a few sites and so we've discussed having some some kind of components there so I just you know have you know planning board stay tuned Dodson and flinker is getting more involved with the downtown design standards in terms of Outreach and trying to formulate you know draft standards over the next say six months and so I think you know the planning board uh members may have been asked to be part of a working group you can always there's there's a web page now uh and then there's opportunities for public comment and then the planning board along with a few others will be involved as reviewers of those standards when they're in draft form so you know it'll probably be a a combined meeting with like say planning board drb zba and others to try to minimize how many meetings the Consultants have to go to but uh you know so I think the the planning board will be involved there um and then you know just a note on the University Drive overlay there's there was a change in state law a few years ago and so if there's um it's eligible locations that are appropriate for for infill for mixed use for multi-unit density then it's a simple majority vote by Town Council or by you know the legislative body and so when University Drive gets referred if should it get referred the planning board and CRC will have to discuss whether or not University Drive is an eligible location according to Mass General law and if so then the the vote to adopt it is by simple majority and you know I think initially looking at everything it is uh it to me it means that there are other areas in town that would then also qualify as an eligible location you know route nine could be one and honestly I also think we could look at uh Gateway or areas around the University campus and so you know if we're you know if we want to talk about where do we have different kinds of housing I think there can be you know you know we said what the reason why route n was uh reduced as a priority was you know we might be able to Zone it for what we might want in terms of scale and massing but maybe the end users are not you know if it's going to be all students maybe that's not what we want and so I think there's probably places in town where we could discuss you know what are you know what are different strategies and so I my saying that is it could tie really nicely into the housing production plan and the downtown design standards and so you know I I'm my guessing my guess is that next spring uh there'll probably be a number of ideas and things that the planning board could really discuss uh we're we're talking about updating the master plan in the next few years or maybe I'm getting that started at some point too in terms of how do we scope that out so that's something that to you know that'll be coming forward and then the Adu changes uh according to state law we have to have a bylaw or you know have everything in place by February so you know at some point staff will probably start looking at that there's still not some clarity the state put a web page up about adus but I think there's a lot of complexity there in terms of you know what what the statute actually means and how it's interpreted and so that hasn't been clear yet uh you know like I said there's a lot of ideas at at one of the forums workshops and so I just I'm not sure where that I'll go but yeah I mean I I think that next year there's probably some some good you know policy or you know regulatory things that the planning board could really discuss and maybe you know propose some different changes and so I I I kind of like that idea um move some things forward okay I I I just want to note that uh Lawrence has left the meeting sometime in the last few minutes uh Johanna I think that's a really exciting kind of policy agenda to explore and that's the kind of work that I think doing in person is going to be more productive than trying to do it over Zoom okay anything go ahead do we need to mention that our next meeting starts at 7 versus 6:30 does everybody know that no we we were we were going to mention that either is no meeting on October 3rd or whatever the very first week of October uh because it conflicts with Russia [Music] Shana and so our next meeting is is it October 16th October 16 okay and um because uh Nate has some obligations and can't really participate until about 7 uh I thought we were going to try starting at 6:45 and do a few of our administrative things before before we before Nate before Nate arrives we can so let's try that and see if we can keep that 15 minutes as a productive period okay um if we can't then we can talk about starting later but you know I mean it's obviously after 10: now we've been going at this for three and a half hours um I'd like to try to start and get through things as you know as early as makes sense but uh okay but also give us time to have dinner yes okay all right so 6:45 645 on October 16th is the next meeting and so once again Chris farewell and we hope to see you now and then thank you all right if anybody else objects uh unless you object I will say that we are adjourned at 6 minutes after [Music] 10 thanks thank you Chris thank you all by Chris thanks Chris by Chris at the see you Thursday Chris good night good night stop recording