##VIDEO ID:Io06f6CilgI## good evening everyone oops oh yeah no it's recording there it is so welcome to this meeting of the town of am public art commission my name is Angela Mills I work for the town manager here in ammer this meeting is happening via Zoom due to the suspension of certain open meeting laws and it will be uploaded to the town of ammer YouTube channel shortly by our wonderful IT staff so I want to thank everyone who's a member of this commission for all of your efforts and identify that our wonderful chair Tom morer is here and I'm going to turn it over to Tom thank you everyone thank you as always Angela okay so there's Lori hello Lori Hi how are you doing I'm well thank you happy to be here so many meetings but I saw all of the um materials and read through them for the meeting okay so you've been traveling a lot yeah traveling and and work things so yeah yeah well for 20 years I was a road warrior myself so uh I know I I know what you go through yeah I mean I don't actually travel for work that much this this particular time that I was away was oh I was able to work remotely but I was out in California I have family and my son is out there so it was all good all good nice to see you all you it looks like you've gotten a lot accomplished these last meetings we've we've had some nice conversations and I I do think we are um kind of coalescing in in our thinking and I have kind of stumper for us to talk about this evening when we get to that part to the U to the mission and policies uh question there okay so um as of right now we are technically a quorum uh we're waiting for Terry we'll give her maybe just a few more seconds and then get started and catch her up when we when she's able to join us she's busily doing her part to keep Hampshire College afloat so we we we you probably joined me in thinking that's a good good thing to be doing absolutely yeah okay I'm going to start sharing my screen if I get to the right place here e okay can you see the agenda that I have pulled up yep okay thanks okay so we've been called to order by Angela first order of business as always is to take a look at the uh minutes that I've scrambled together from the November meeting so there were four of us present Lori was away the there were two documents that we shared at that meeting those are both uh here stored online at the Town archives and accessible via that link um everybody was who was at the meeting was online okay started at 6 no public members we approved them um minutes of preceding meetings I think that was two I'm not sure um so the chair's report was that what was that the legal review of artist contracts as of then was not completed uh I did get in touch with the artist to say we would delay until spring of 2025 I'll have an update on that in a minute we were to have interiew with we were to have had interviews with candidates to fill our two vacancies that was postponed I have an update on that also calendar of exhibits at Town Hall was revised I was happy that we had somebody coming in first week in December that's changed too and I'll update you on that and then I um Shar that slide set and some discussion LED some discussion about um using so-called bus wrap um Vinyl cover art display on the big windows at the head house at boltwood parking garage and I've put that that document is on is online there too um I didn't say anything here but you know we we didn't take any action that was just a very preliminary discussion um all right and here's my summary of the mission policies document discussion we spent most of the time I recall um talking about and appreciating the wording that uh Dara contributed on the um um meaning and importance of public art that was something that wasn't really addressed um in our um model document um and I think we all we all we all like that and I have put that I've Incorporated that into the document and there's a copy of that in what I sent you today um by the way if if members are feeling that my summaries here are too short um I agree and it probably would be better to have them be a little bit more filled out um so if anybody feels that way just uh please speak up and um we adj we adjourned the meeting at 7 or 710 and I've added the note here that the that the audio recording as Angela mentions in the prologue is available and I've put the I'm going to put the link to that in there each time so if somebody in the public thinks that we're a little brief they're welcome to dig in and and listen to it all um last note on that topic my feeling developed over the years has been that the important thing to preserve in minutes or any decisions that were made and um it's nice when you can outline the blowby blow it's what the discussions were um but frankly that's that's pretty long and tedious to generate and I personally a little doubtful about the the value of it but I'm open to other opinions of people have those so are there any comments or Corrections or additions for these minutes uh I I want to say that I am in favor of uh brief summarized comments in minutes I agree thank you I agree as well important is if if there's a vote that that's recorded yeah on that thought um if if I forget to ask for a decision and a vote somebody speak up okay when I was doing these minutes I couldn't remember what I said last week about submitting a budget request and I'm pretty sure I think I skipped it actually I think I skipped it so I didn't put anything in on it but in any event uh I went and put in a budget request um I'll dis discuss that in a moment um and I figured I was just acting within the consensus of the group anyhow could I get a um a motion to approve these minutes I give a motion to approve a second thank you okay uh all approve all all in favor I everyone okay hi thank you all okay so we look at the agenda and uh we do have uh two new members appointed and they are Lynn Thompson uh who has about a I think she said a 28-year career at UMass administ mining art in various forums various kinds of art various situations and she is herself uh trained uh visual artist um her her application is is is one of the documents that I sent you I don't have a a a resume otherwise that's all they collected uh when she applied and the other the other person appointed was Charlene shoy and we we owe a nod of gratitude to darra uh for that darra would you say just a few words about Charlene uh I I've known her since she moved to the area probably about 10 or more years ago and um she's been involved in arts in terms of public art work through all her life creating especially creating opportunity ities for young kids and uh practicing adults to do communitybased workshops and she helps people write grants and she has served as a consultant to some big city and town uh art projects in other areas so she does some work she works from her house in emmer and works here but she also consults Nationwide and she's got a really good perspective and she has a lot of knowledge of grant writing and how to use grants after you get them wonderful yeah so she's I was so happy when she said she wanted to join in um I think we got a a a good pair here and and a nice complimentarity because uh Lynn has Lynn has seen it all from the you know a very local perspective here and seems you know very solid very thoroughgoing professional um Charlene as wonderful background and I really liked her creativity nice nice spirit of innovation and you know why not um uh and just for your information we did have a third candidate who was every bit as good as as these two so that that was very that was very pleased with that uh I think that other candidate was a c was also a candidate for other committees so it could be that that person uh is is um has taken another uh appointment but I was gratified to see that we had such nice nice qualifications so I'm looking forward they got their letters of appointment yesterday um or Tuesday they rather it'll take them a few days to do the administrative requirements as you'll recall and they have to go get sworn in in person um but I'll include them on the on the next call for agenda and I'll send them some some background information too so they can be ready to go for our um January meeting um okay and Charlene's uh application is also among the documents that I I sent you okay next one the town attorney finally got back regarding revision to the artist contract and um here we go so what I put in the document that I sent you just about 5:30 with two emails the first one is from Paul um Bachman and he summarized the discussion that he had with the town attorney uh This Way um he's the attorneys for some reason don't think that ammer owns those traffic boxes I think that's news to the public works department that'll be easy enough to uh to check out I do know because um Guilford told me that's the director of um U Public Works that some of them do belong to the State State Department of Transportation he warned us off those so he seemed to think the rest were ours if the if not if they belong to who knows the electric company or somebody we can just write a letter and ask them I don't think that's a big deal plus we've painted almost all of them anyway so um whether the odds they're going to say no but you know the attorneys being the attorneys you know pointed out that if we don't own them but we paint them that could be a problem uh second yeah Dara uh one of the page you have one up right now says that the artist is required to carry Insurance yeah that's already that was already in the um in the language basically they hurt themselves or get hurt somehow while the bo okay it doesn't say what kind of insurance yeah yeah if it said personal whatever I I wouldn't have asked you right right no I was I had the same reaction when I when I saw it there but when I went back and read the document it's that they carry you know an IND independent coverage in view of workman's comp coverage that you would have if you were an employee so we we had that already and then now this is the new part um the T they want the town to get uh a waiver have the artist sign a waiver of certain rights that they get under a federal law and under a Massachusetts law and uh we'll look at those in just a minute uh here uh down below um Paul made the comment that well it all seems pretty legal sounding and he's worried about whether to put the artist off um when I wrote back to him I said I didn't think so because our our existing contract has got a lot of legal Lees in it and as far as I know that's never been a problem again I don't know how carefully people read contracts but um I don't think there's drastically new ground here um Paul did say just uh in speaking on um on the phone or before another meeting that um the I guess I'm partly filling in the blanks here uh between things he said but but that the the attorneys were a little peeved with how complicated the legal issues around public art seem to be um and uh I thought one of the things I would do when I have a second followup with uh with Paul which I'll do after we have this meeting is just to make sure that he's on board um that we press ahead uh with the if that is in fact the consensus of this group um but he did say you know something to the effect that oh come on you know we've been doing this all the other towns do it uh this you know while the lawyers can come up with legitimate worries How likely or how again I'm I'm kind of adding to what he said here but basically I think he inclined that we press ahead even though the the lawyers were giving him some kind of scowling reaction well what does that mean that they wanted to end the end public art well I think if you roll out the implications yes but that's insane who are these lawyers well that's a good question I'd love I'd love to sit down with them but I'm sure that would never be permitted well let me what do you think about this um do you think um something could be fashioned that said to the artist that if if as they read the document and the contract they needed to sit down with either one of us or a town lawyer preferably one of the lawyers and have them talk to them about questions they have and that that would be part of the deal I think that's excellent and I I I would suggest that we do that okay yeah yeah just offering to do it yeah helps yes yes I I worry that we it's not the same thing but I I worry about the vibe that got created when we were talking with the artist who was going to renew the shadow boxes the uh boltwood boxes well I wasn't to any of the things that was said to her really so I don't know yeah well it's just that we we were sort of get going so deep in the so much deeper into the weeds than than I think she was expecting and I can't shake the feeling that that didn't play real well I'm not saying that that caused her to withdraw but um it'll be better to go to do this the way you're suggesting Dara and to lead with an with an offer to help explain and in in effect smooth way yeah because I need help with people reading my contracts yeah yeah okay so this here is the legal document um I'll try to simplify it this way but please do read it to check me on this they're basically two provisions that the lawyers have pulled out of these laws um one is right of attribution in other words the artist uh has a right to be able to claim that hey that's my work there um and um and the other the other side of that coin is that they don't get their name associated with work that they did not do yeah okay so that that that's the attribution piece and then there's a a second provision that they have the right to um uh prevent the prevent changes to the work once they've done it and here they list out Distortion mutilation modific ations and what they don't actually say but I think is implied is um removal so in other words if you paint if you paint uh uh uh one of these uh traffic control boxes it potentially the case could come up where if that box gets Swept Away removed let's say the town's putting in either a new box box or a traffic circle that box goes away that the that the artist you know has um has an interest has a right to prevent it or the artist I think by implication also the artist has a right of recourse if the if the work gets vandalized let's say graffiti gets scrolled across it um or uh Again by implication that um here prevent the destruction of the work uh so that would be a case for example also when let's say we were to decide okay we're going to paint over some of these boxes when the paint gets presumably when the when the image gets so deteriorated now what we would do then whether we give the artist the option of renewing it or if we just uh wipe it wipe it off that's another discussion but anyhow it's this latter um right the the right to prevent the Distortion or destruction that the art that the lawyers are saying we need to get the artists to wave they can keep the right uh of attribution so that it's the act of wording the um operational wording is down here under waiver so they want them to wave the rights um to the Distortion mutilation etc etc but they say the waiver does not extend to the rights of attribution so that stays but the um artist having a say in what happens to the artwork once it's on the on the track box um there's they need to give that up I can't imagine I can't imagine most artist would give that up well actually I think the way that it is written in um in the longer document that you were working on at the last meeting there is a paragraph about that um that addresses ownership of of work um by the town public art and having the rights I was somewhere I mean there was a long document so I don't know if it was whatever page it was but we I can find it and it did speak about you know that that the town retains the right you know if the work becomes um you know Fades or is damaged um over time say that you know it's it's a public art in a building that then is being removed or reconstructed Ed that you know the town has the right to you know destroy the work um and I think that makes sense because I the one thing that is a concern I think is is financially maintaining the Integrity of a work of art um by the you know that the town takes that on because over time say the peace starts to deteriorate um you know financially there's a cost in involved in that and things change you know 10 20 30 years from now you want to be able to if it wasn't already in the contract that the piece was only for the duration of a certain period of time if it's something being you know given to the town and perpetuity that I don't think we we want to be responsible for that so I'm actually for the waiver okay but that's my op there are a lot of other questions involved in it though but what you said makes to toal sense I mean I get it yeah I think we'll have a chance to re to um um to review that language that uh Lori is referring to as we get deeper into the into the Weeds on on our document well it just seems it seems like you always should have some kind of time limit or time frame on something and that in the contract you'd also have something that says something about G ation over time and who's responsible for maintaining the Integrity of the work and if that is the if that's the responsibility of the artist that's fine well again I I think we'll want to have a a fuller discussion of that because it can it can apply in very different ways if somebody if somebody uh let's say were to donate a painting or something and it goes on the wall in a building that's one thing if they make u a sculpture you know it might be bronze and it's going to survive us all or it might be made out of sticks as has been done and it and it's not even intended to to last forever I would just we'll get we can get to that I think um we we also want to be careful about um time limits because what if we said that the traffic control box paintings um we guarantee them for for five years and then what happens if in the fourth year there's something something comes up uh or let's say the paint on one of them is perfectly fine five seven eight years from now but one of the other has just really deteriorated after three or four years so I think we just need to be a little careful that we don't paint ourselves yeah I was thinking about the time frame more for temporary you know like the installations and the um parking garage sort of thing where it's up for certain limited amount of time and then it's yeah it's removed um but I think there's some good I think there was some good language in that in that doent in the lebur yeah um yeah and I will say these are these are these are complicated issues that I've encountered I was on the board at the Fine Art Center and for the University Art Museum you know they own several works of art and some of them are you know installation outdoor installation pieces one is the bridge that goes over the pond at UMass and it C costs a tremendous amount of money to restore it it was falling apart and the artist you know was not responsible for that but it was falling apart so they had to do a lot of fundraising to be able to to maintain it yeah that's good did it turn out good it did well you know another conversation for another time but I would also personally I would Advocate that we have um opportunities for artists that are are deliberately not permanent on the idea that um you know you're your stuff is up for a while then somebody else gets a chance but we'd want to be very clear about that in advance like the boxes seem to me to be things that should have a time limit on them because turnover on that is like a a child can do some of the I mean yeah there's a lot of room for all kinds of art on on those yeah you know I think a turnover would be really good and I think it keeps it Lively you know and engaging yeah yeah I think that was part of the original concept too um so that the initial set of poems was not to be forever but um it's been a while since I read the documents on that so anyhow this is this is what the the waivers I don't see this as a huge obstacle and I do think that if we if we make an effort which we certainly can do to offer assistance and offer um clarifications whether comes from us or from from the attorneys so then I I wrote back pretty quickly after getting Paul's email and the um and the document and uh this is this is what I wrote back to him and I I've I've already said here in this session basically what uh What uh uh what I thought on it but also that um you know I can I'll follow up uh which I will do um and Tempest in a teapot yes but that's part of what we're we're here to make sure it doesn't boil over okay so um let me ask you if it's the sense of the of the committee that we continue with this project and that we just deal with the with the requirements that uh Paul has enumerated here is that is that your sense yeah yes yes okay I because this is a a mandated waiver I don't know that we need to approve the waiver so I'm not going to call I'm not going to call for a motion on that again unless anybody feels differently okay so next item here um another revision to the town hall Art Gallery we were all set to have another artist come in first week in December then she wrote just a few days before that and said now she changed her mind so I need to I'm going to fall back now on trying to get get us reset for beginning of January and get back on schedule there um I handed out um I asked you to make up those uh brochure s sort of things and I handed out about 10 of them at the lover Art Center great they had their o um open house and all the artists so I handed them out to quite a few people who have uh Studio spaces there and then I also put some at the high school so I'm trying I'm working on yeah thank you thank you for both of those um Mikey sure okay but I think at some point we should put like a colored brochure together that we can put out like a three-piece thing that we can put in to um all sorts of stores or um the bid and the um yeah places like that agreed agre is our is our call um in the newsletter what is it the Arts newsletter that goes out um um I don't believe it is we we have you know a um a a web page just hangs out there all the time soliciting but I don't think we do very much to amplify that or extend I think it's free yeah we can do it and should okay um and and the another place you could put it is at the you know at the frame shop well it's not here anymore it's in Northampton but still um there's another one I found out about in Hadley that's inexpensive and then there's another guy right on Main Street but he's hardly ever there right right so those in the frame shops and in the um you know maybe the art Departments of the colleges too well you know even that that Michaels craft store they have a framing Department too we could just put a few on their counter right yeah I think it'd be very easy for us to um kind of take the example of what Mikey did and put these out a few more places for people to find them for the right people in other words people interested in in art uh and creating art uh to to find them um another place would that would be good is um Z's print studio in Northampton it's a lot of artists go there and take classes and print okay okay MH okay um next update item was um I submitted uh an application to the emers uh cultural Council which we do every year for for another round of funding for Electrify ammer and um I've included that uh also in the set of documents that you that you received this is the wrong document here H that one too yeah here it is emmer cultural Council scrolling down to the brief description maybe I went pass it could you slow down so I can this was one that didn't come through for me all of it okay let me go back up high in it and I'll go through it um so F this the top part is just who is it from and how much so I asked them for $1,650 visual arts Electrify emmer summer 2025 in ammer stop right there wait I have a question about the estimated number of people served uh what did I say I think you said three yeah um I don't think that's right I think that's the number of artists involved but the number of people served would be a whole lot bigger number in retrospect I should have said both I should have said three artists and then everybody who drives yeah through town yeah I'm sure somebody can give you even some kind of number of that yeah I'm sure Public Works could Supply a number yeah and so this is my summary again painting three boxes and by the way I don't know that there are more boxes Beyond both the three that are pending for this spring plus three more um and and um the number is partly being diminished by construction of traffic circles so there's going to be one uh traffic circle going in at uh AMD and University and uh I had a hint from uh Public Works that the intersection of East Street and Main Street they near Fort River that that's that's one they're hoping to replace too and he he had warned us not to paint that box because he said it might be going away in a year or two so um any rate um so we may be coming to a natural close on at least the painting of new boxes but anyway there will be there will be three more you know at least um so it's just kind of a bare bones dis description here of how we do this and how it's documented and where they can see the accumulation of the boxes that we've done no cost to partici no cost to to the artist to participate this is the word this is their wording not not mine or is it no I think this this this part is my wording and I also here uh made the point that um we're welcoming both professional and amateur artists including uh [Music] students and just the administrative detail that we coordinate with the design View Board and public works and the town manager and as we discussed a little while ago um primary promotion is through the APAC uh web page but here too we'll have some time if we get this grant we'll have some time this spring to think about uh pushing the uh the call uh a little more actively and this is the budget here um I'm mindful that they cut our request back from last year I forgot what what Terry had put in but they cut it back to 850 but I just want to lay out what we really think it is so the stiens and up to $50 I just put up to $50 per artist for pain and other supplies and by the way when I mentioned that to one of the artists to whom we awarded a box she said oh don't worry about that it's just a little it's just a little bit of paint and paint brush or too I've got all that so I don't know I don't think anybody's going to anybody's going to give us a hard time about having only $50 available for a little bit of paint and a paint brusher too so that was the application um I don't know when I don't think these they're there are something like 108 applications to the council you can see you can see them all at their web page and um I I think it takes until the well into the late winter before they've run through all of them their average Grant I think is about $1,000 they have 5 58,000 to Dole out so that's that's for those boxes okay so my last update is the budget I submitted a budget I asked Angela what to do and she said oh now is the time of year to do it so get something in and uh and I did so this is what that that was this a copy of the email by which I submitted it so it went [Music] to the chair of the finance committee Robert uh hegner copy to um to Paul bachan and to Angela at an Angela's suggestion I asked him to send it along to members of the finance committee that was about 10 days two two weeks ago um I mentioned that it would you know planted the idea that would occur annually and that we requesting three ,000 and that this is the itemization so I figured 300 food and drink for the artist receptions at Town Hall 50 about $50 each six of them therefore 300 I pointed out we have maybe 30 people attend and that these are free and open and advertised to the public here I'm getting back to something one of you mentioned earlier I think maybe it was Lori um so I put in, 1500 that was just a wild guess for for printing various you know flyers and other small maybe you know trifold format things to promote whatever um whether it's um uh submitting to the art gallery or uh um uh even this would be bigger than just a trifold but but a you know a refreshed printed guide to public art in ammer um so I didn't want to get too specific about about um what might be be in here but I did give the examples here of the uh Town Hall Art Gallery um text and Graphics okay um so I pointed out because I was anticipating that they may say hey why are we printing things these days and I said you know we do a lot through online no cost media but we regularly hear that some selective paper publication isn't the necess I just wanted to try to get out ahead of that potential objection and then the the balance of the 3,000 this is this is just sort of a idea that I came up with it would be to buy graphic Art and Design Services um you know to improve the the visuals that would go with uh these Publications but also with Grant applications as well and I have no idea how far $1,200 goes that way but I just I wanted to be sure first to try to establish the precedent that we get an administrative budget secondly to get us at least something I thought if I asked for 10 or 20,000 it' be too easy to turn us down yeah but um so this is I went so I sort of went out on on a limb probably prettyy sturdy limb but a limb nonetheless in in doing this sort of unilaterally so I hope I hope this has been okay with you that's a good start I think it's really good I think we need to they should be funding us yeah yeah yeah definitely you know about the graphic artist too stuff which is really good because they're artists too you know right and um some years ago I did a project here uh to put posters of poems on the buses in the bus system and um I did it with the Poetry Society of America and the bus people and um I found out that there are a lot of really good graphic artists in Northampton ammer and surrounding us who do pro bono work for art projects yeah and know so I could I could try to look into that again and see what that because sometimes people like having a project that they can see all over the place yeah yeah yeah I think that applies also by the way to the to the U traffic control boxes that it seemed to me that the artists you know they take they take some pictures of them put them in their portfolio yeah and so you know it's helping them also but that no it's a good point that uh we don't have to be looking at uh Madison Avenue prices no for every little thing we might think of doing on on the other hand the other book end to that is if it's worth doing it's it's worth somebody being able to to earn earn some money doing it too yeah don't want don't want to be too unreasonable that way okay so that brings us back to our favorite ongoing document I haven't made any revisions since November 17th when I Incorporated what Dara suggested um two things um they parts that I volunteered to do and we'll we'll still do I just got to buckle down and do them um but um I'd also really like if if uh any of you could sort of step in and and start doing a little editing uh on on this particularly for the parts in Black that we've already drafted the parts in blue as a reminder are carried over from the leberg document the things in red are sort of my editorial suggestions and musings um and the deeper we go in the document the easier and quicker it should be to do uh not so much to uh uh to have to invent but here in the time remaining what I'd like to do is put a question to you that um in a way goes back to that darn for want of a nail thing that we went through but also comes up freshly um because of one of the submissions to the uh emmer cultural Council and I went through and looked at all 108 submissions and sure enough somebody wants like $112,000 to put a metal sculpture on the town common so here's here's the question what I see is an underlying question here which is and this there's nothing in the lesburg document on this I I just checked again this afternoon but um how how does somebody's brainstorm become a suitable proposal as public art not just because I think you know I'm I'm a French major I'd like to have an I'd like to have a little version of the Eiffel Tower right in the middle of town common I'll go get the money and I'll give this as a gift to the town what else is there to discuss so we touched on the wording 045 meetings ago about um something like public buyin I don't like that term but you see where this is going um can we say anything can we think of Concepts and wording uh to that we would be able to put in the document that says that gives some guidance as to uh you know when when can you comfortably cross over that line from a from a from an individual's idea to this being worthy well let me strike that word being acceptable um and as all right now this this looks like public art looks like it's going to be public art doesn't it sort of like have to come from a committee or a department within the town to um go out to everybody that would be um so that you get all the different artists to put their uh thought process into it instead of one person coming to the town and saying I want to put this there there I'm going to raise the money for it there's a way to write that so it's coming in we we decide on what the artwork is or what where we want it in the town as being the public art commission and then we uh go to them and say okay who would like to do this so it's a public I I don't do you understand what I'm trying to say yeah I think you're saying I mean that that there's a public call there's a public call you can't for for artwork but I I think there are other instances where it's not going to you know it doesn't go that way so I have a couple of questions about that and and have never been you know I I think Beyond this Committee in terms of the town and what it's taking responsibility for if someone wants to donate a work of art to the town is that you know the public art commission there's something about in this document about col having a collection which I don't think we should actually do but wouldn't that go to a museum H wouldn't that be more towards going to a museum if well the town does own artwork and and there is artwork that you know is public in the town that we presumably own um and something that's going to go into a building they're already you know I've never it's never been clearly defined for us which pieces we do own and are responsible for the town so that's one question and if someone wanted to give work what you know do we want to say that we don't take work that we do take work because if someone donates something then you're taking it on you're responsible for it on the other hand if someone wants to give something of value and we can sell it and have money to do something so I think there's a this is a bigger discussion um I also think you know who the by Committee in terms of um not just this this body but others in the town or Town Council I'm not sure who these you know who it should be I would think would be able to vote on you know where the responsibility lies um evaluating things that come to the town like that you know someone wants to put something on the town common you know people want to put um you know do some kind of fair on the town comment it has to go through something you can't just yeah right a fair on a certain day you have to go through something and one other thing I want to say and I see your hand up Dar is I I did see um well two things one I I saw that there's a mural I haven't seen it but I saw some announcement of a mural that went into the um was it in connection ammer College yes yeah and so how did that happen does that do things not have to go through the the public Arts commission they just let me fill in some background on that um last spring I got an email no actually I got a tip from Angela that um that uh Haley and apologize I don't know her last name who was the director of the bangs Center had been in conversation with uh ammer art faculty and a faculty member there wanted to do a public art workor at the bang Center and that this was going to be painted on the on the brick one of the brick Terraces to near the entrance and um so I got in touch um well I guess no I got this backwards Haley got in touch with me after being tipped off by Angela and Haley's email and if anybody's interested I can send the string of emails here um Haley was basically saying here's what we're going to do emmer college uh art faculty and students are going to do this be no cost to the town um etc etc and I wrote back and said u sounds good um some suggestions for you one that you get you get some project plan with the with the art faculty and they already did have a pretty good process they were going to interview the staff and constituents of the bang Center uh before doing any of the artwork and I also said that uh you know be aware that you're going to need to get an artist contract the town will want that and then the third thing I said is uh the uh public Arts commission is available to help you out with this to uh help communicate and coordinate with the different town departments who who would need to um be you know at least aware and speaking on on this and uh I never got a response back and then in September I wrote back to Haley and asked um is this project happening and she said oh no uh it it fell through at least in the original form so uh we're not going to do it on the on the brick surface on the on the floor surface and then the next thing I knew was the article that you saw in the newspaper that they had done this and um so I was uh I was a little peeved by that personally and so I wrote I wrote an email to Paul bakaman and I GNA be delighted to share this with you where I said Paul um don't know whether she got an artist contract to do this um do you want that um and then I said um you know I recounted what I just told you about the the background Communications there but I I didn't copy her on that I just put it in Paul's lap and he said oh yes we he wrote back and said yes we definitely want to have a contract I'll speak with her about it so I think it was I think it was a bit of an end run I I'll say that on the record yeah well let me go and this is what we don't want to have happen we we we would you know when we finish this Grand document um it will go to all Departments of the town uh and so they they will be on notice that hey there is a process here and uh you can't just go off and freelance uh this this stuff and we'll we we at that point need to enlist the aid of any Department who get gets wind of something happening and uh says hey just as Angela does uh you ought to know about this and that we have then some basis for stepping in to say let us help you so that sculpture thing yeah hang hang just a second there one one more little nail to drive into this um is that one of the other proposals was to turn the Wildwood Cemetery into a Sculpture Park so I quick went to the web to say oh darn does the town own Wildwood Cemetery well no they don't there's a cemetery Association and it has long history so I think that's kind of technically uh out of bounds there but again this idea that public art you get a bright idea you figure out how to fund it um and you just charge ahead with it and that's that's what I think we really don't want I think that's what we've been created to to not have happen darra so well and so when you mentioned looking earlier at all the grants proposal and you mentioned somebody who wanted $122,000 for putting something on the common right yeah well why wouldn't the cultural Council say uh we the public art commission has to be in on this well you know that's that's a pertinent question because and one I've been weighing in my mind is I'm thinking about sending uh a friendly little email to the chair of that commission saying I I just read through um the descriptions here and I just want to alert you that some of these that are public art you know these people should really be referred to us we'd be glad to confer with the with the um cultural commission about these yeah you know again is uh offering to be to be of help and and trying to get out ahead of trying to run after the train after it's left the station right so if we have a policy yeah then we can really go after them that's right because if it's you know it don't if it's the policy in effect it isn't public artart unless the public art commission is satisfied that you know you've gone about it right right that it needs approval you know it needs approval from us yeah that we us it's got to go through by the town we were created by the Town Council right do this well this is all really helpful in terms of thinking about the document that this came out of talking about yeah putting something really clearly in this document right and as as Lori as Lori made several references to during this meeting the parts in the from the um leberg document that we haven't gone through yet but are sitting here in blue they already cover an awful lot of this so we don't have to invent we don't have to vent uh this stuff now what we do need to do is have this go when it's finished go back to Town Council and get it approved by them so then it becomes the the rule and we then as as Mikey pointed out then we've got a little muscle in this and we can say we can say to bangs or to the library or whomever whoever you know public uh you know a citizen of the Town Hey look these are the rules speaking of which and I I don't want to really change the subject but I do want to get this in before we end and I know we're coming up to time um I got uh an invitation I'm I'm assuming you all did to serve as a panelist yesterday but I got it the or no it's tomorrow tomorrow morning tomorrow morning I didn't get one for the elementary school building committee so I'm assuming and I've heard that that project is going forward and the amount for that is going to be the percent for art will be you know is being determined and so that is moving along and I did get this invitation so it it actually is for tomorrow at 900 am you didn't get it no I didn't get one it came um on Tuesday I have no idea beyond what you said Lori uh it just showed up in my mailbox too I'm not you know we we didn't volunteer um as individuals to be on the panel I did tell Paul that you know he could reach out to us because remember last April or so when we thought the project was going to start then uh under the terms of the um percent for art bylaw I wrote wrote a little piece for Paul uh suggesting some procedural uh measures right and even some names for an art Review Committee for this so I've heard nothing nothing nothing until this email showed up asking me to show up uh on to you know tomorrow morning I look took a look at the agenda and it uh it gives no idea um sounds like they were just notifying you as a way to say they notified you yeah I think so so we show up and I don't know what scope it is can't give somebody one day it's notice right well I got mine on um either Monday or Tuesday I got mine on Tuesday sure oh that's still not but it's not enough notice really to you know reschedule other meetings and yeah yeah and work obligations yeah so so are either of you going oh yeah definitely well that's great I can I could come for like 10 minutes like the first I have a 9:30 so I would only be able to do like 15 minutes um no um I'll I'll be able to do the whole thing I have no idea whether they think they can get to the determination of the amount of money in this first you know this meeting even I think I think it is on coming up on the agenda and we'll be going to the Town Council yes was was anybody on the Town Council who's associated with the email asking you all to come no it was just an invitation like you got the invitation to this meeting oh okay and I think even the term panelist is a zoom convention right know that this is actually a panel no um but somehow we've been called to a meeting short notice virtually no agenda or no meaningful agenda and and and no no description so I and I don't understand why it wouldn't be every one of us like how did they just pick names out of a hat you know there might be that they it's I I read a lot of the documents associated with that percent for art thing but it was a while ago when I read them but I feel like there might have been like X number of um a public art commission people should be a part of the whole thing it's like a x number what I don't think it was a whole yeah you know commission as a whole which Mak which does make sense except for that this is just an invitation random invitation to a meeting it wasn't didn't preface with anything right I can't be there anyway so bad invitation yeah well the um there there are again uh also being mindful of the of the time I just to remind you if if you go back and look at the uh various documents pertaining to percent for art um the first part of the bylaw got significantly changed yeah and and the S the the core of the change was it removed us as the controlling agent in other words the agency that got the money made the decisions and monitored the project y that got stricken in the first part but but the second half of the document didn't get changed and so there's still wording in there that public art is supposed to decide when payments are ready to be made you know as if we were managing the project so there's there's there's some loose ends in this and it's really not clear you know what extent of participation and what kind of participation is expected of us what is clear and what we've done is to make some preliminary uh suggestions to the town manager then presumably he gets to decide who's on the various panels and part of the management team Etc ETA so um we'll we'll let you know what comes what comes of this I think what I'll do I'll check with Angela on this but I'm going to hope that it would be allowable for me to send everybody a summary uh of of the meeting that would be nice but that we don't discuss it until the our next meeting uhhuh no I would that'd be really good while it's fresh you know yeah I think so yeah I yeah that's good I'm glad that you can can go yeah because when I first heard about that before as I was being when I was told to join the commission um I was reading about that and I thought that is that would be so good because if the commission had more clout and meaning more money decision then your responsibilities take on a whole another level oh goodness yes of attention and discipline and stuff you know a different for me you know for somebody on commission it's like your responsibility is a lot it would change it for everybody because if we had money to hand out people would pay attention to us more than they do well and I think they're trying to work more closely with the cultural Council maybe maybe we need to invite the head of that to come and talk to us yeah you know how can we work together that's a good suggestion I like that Dar yeah because I mean I don't I don't wouldn't want to be adversarial in any way I just would have know to know like what can we do together that would make sense yeah okay well let's plan to do that so what else is on our agenda that covers the agenda okay any last thoughts requests whatever just that we've got to work on this so that we can make sure to get yeah done yeah because of the stuff in the mass cultural Council these people wanting $12,000 for a something in the town center for the cultural Council that's a big big amount of money right yeah yeah okay thank you okay thank you all take care I'm I'll move to adjourn okay second um all approved yep okay we we're we're we're done have a good holiday everybody happy holidays everyone you happy New Year thank everybody bye bye thanks bye bye